http://www.bju.edu/prospective/expect/rhall.html

Residence Hall Life

* A student must live in one of the University residence halls unless he is living with parents or other close relatives (approved by the Dean of Men's or Dean of Women's office), is 23 years old or older, is married and over the age of 20, or is a graduate student.
* Freshmen may request a roommate. Other students are allowed one request for a friend to be in their prayer group, on their hall, or in their residence hall, but not in their room.
* For the sake of accountability, students must "check out" when they leave the campus. Students gradually acquire more freedom in this area as they become upperclassmen.
* Each night all students meet for prayer, either as a room or together with several other rooms.
* Students are required to be in their own rooms and quiet at 11 pm. All lights must be out by midnight.
* Students are required to keep their rooms clean and neat. Rooms are inspected daily.
* Facilities and furnishings:
o Laundry facilities are provided.
o All rooms are furnished with twin-sized beds, dressers, desks, closets, cupboards, sink, telephone, and blinds.
o Computer network and high-speed Internet access is available in each residence hall room.
* An email account is provided for each student. Due to the flood of objectionable content coming through outside email services, students may use only this filtered campus email system.
* All wireless access to the Internet is forbidden since all Internet use must go through the University's filtered access.

What to Bring

* List of what to bring pdf
* Students may bring automobiles to campus. However, underclassmen (freshmen and sophomores) who are under 21 years old may use their vehicles only to drive home and for extension.
* Cell phones are permitted. Students will be instructed in cell phone etiquette.

What Not to Bring

* Posters of movie and music stars and fashion models are not permitted. The subjects of personal photos should exhibit the modesty and appropriate physical contact we expect from our students.
* Music must be compatible with the University's music standards:
o New Age, jazz, rock, and country music is not permitted.
o Contemporary Christian music is not permitted (e.g., Michael W. Smith, Stephen Curtis Chapman, WOW Worship, and so forth).
* Televisions and DVD/videocassette players are not permitted in the residence halls; computer DVD players may not be used to view movies.
* You may not possess or play computer and video games rated T, M, or A or having elements of blood and gore, sensual or demonic themes, or featuring suggestive dress, bad language, or rock music.
* Due to space considerations, appliances such as mini-refrigerators and microwaves are not permitted in residence hall rooms. A refrigerator for medical-related needs and microwaves are provided in each residence hall.
* Residence hall students may not watch videos above a G rating when visiting homes in town and may not attend movie theaters.
* All weapons must be turned in for storage. Trigger locks are required for pistols. Fireworks are not permitted on campus.

If your going to copy skybar threads from SSP you could at least say you got it from there.

i didnt, i got it from livejournal where one of my friends posted it. for being a moderator on a site that accessed my site 18069 times to leech files last month and according to the search engine of said site failed to credit my site once you were saying jonny?

wtf... that seriously can't be real and has to be a wind up because the majority of that infringes upon the basic rights to freedom of choice and freedom of lifestyle and the restriction of activities off campus (not allowed to go to a movie theatre) is impossible to even enact upon!!

Methinks someone is pulling someones chain :P

its a totally real website for a totally real university. check out their dress codes.

bob jones university outlaws inter-racial relationships too. i think a private institution should be able to have it's own rules, but i think there is a contradiction here between the rights of an institution and the public influence and responsibility of an institution. i hope some day one of the unbrainwashed goes there, gets a girlfriend/boyfriend of a different race, is expelled, takes bju to court and wins.

Loyalty to Christ results in separated living. Dishonesty, lewdness, sensual behavior, adultery, homosexuality, sexual perversion of any kind, pornography, illegal use of drugs, and drunkenness all are clearly condemned by God's Word and prohibited here. Further, we believe that biblical principles preclude gambling, dancing, and the beverage use of alcohol.


Now that is just plain wrong!! also, where in the bible does it say you aren't allowed alcohol? they're also blatently lying about their own faith!!

It sounds like a prison camp and I'm sure must be illegal!

i didnt, i got it from livejournal where one of my friends posted it. for being a moderator on a site that accessed my site 18069 times to leech files last month and according to the search engine of said site failed to credit my site once you were saying jonny?

1 - 0 to Gothicform on this one.

Re the university, what a happening place that must be - a real hotbed of independant thought.

I can't believe this photo made it onto their website :D

http://www.bju.edu/prospective/gallery/images/sports_2.jpg

http://www.bju.edu/prospective/gallery/images/sports_2.jpg

Trigger locks are required for pistols. Fireworks are not permitted on .


Woooah, there. I could just about live with the rest of that crap but there's no way I could have got through uni without easy access to operable firearms.

PS BJ University?!

PPS I also can't believe that these two subversive individuals have gotten away with violating the edict that "Sideburns should not extend past the middle of the ear.":

http://www.bju.edu/prospective/expect/images/guys.jpg

PPS I also can't believe that these two subversive individuals have gotten away with violating the edict that "Sideburns should not extend past the middle of the ear."

I wonder how they'll be disciplined.

i didnt, i got it from livejournal where one of my friends posted it. for being a moderator on a site that accessed my site 18069 times to leech files last month and according to the search engine of said site failed to credit my site once you were saying jonny?

Better ask Caw and Will about that if your not happy. All of Caw's Beetham Constuction photos are uploaded to and linked from your site. And Most of Will's London - Full Summary of Projects thread is linked from your site.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?threadid=70420&highlight=Skyscraper+news

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?threadid=33549&perpage=25&pagenumber=3

I've never linked any photos from your site to SSP.

What's wrong if it is a private Christian school?

You guys can be so intolerant sometimes.

also, "life in Bush's America"?????

http://www.bju.edu/prospective/expect/images/guys.jpg

yellowtie: "ok hun i'll see you back at halls"

redtie: " cheers sweetie, are we having ice cream tonite?"

yellow: "of course..but that comes after desert you naughty little minx you!"

redtie: "ha ha...i love 'prayers'"

yellow: "so glad i came here...so glad i met you"

redtie: " i know..look i gotta scoot...love you"

yellow: "ok see ya, love you too"

I can't believe this photo made it onto their website :D

http://www.bju.edu/prospective/gallery/images/sports_2.jpg

http://www.bju.edu/prospective/gallery/images/sports_2.jpg

That's quite the bulge... and the other guy is reaching for it too! :D All those horny repressed boys.

http://www.bju.edu/prospective/expect/images/guys.jpg

yellowtie: "ok hun i'll see you back at halls"

redtie: " cheers sweetie, are we having ice cream tonite?"

yellow: "of course..but that comes after desert you naughty little minx you!"

redtie: "ha ha...i love 'prayers'"

yellow: "so glad i came here...so glad i met you"

redtie: " i know..look i gotta scoot...love you"

yellow: "ok see ya, love you too"

Which one's the top and which one's the bottom? :D

Thats one shite Uni. What Uni and state is it in?

Thats one shite Uni. What Uni and state is it in?
Bob jones university in south carolina

What's wrong if it is a private Christian school?

You guys can be so intolerant sometimes.

also, "life in Bush's America"?????

the problem is that an institution such as a university can never truly be private, it also has public and ethical responsibilities, to its students and to the wider community. a business is private, but should an employer, say the head of Mars, be able to declare that he will not employ blacks or gays? or that his employees cannot engage in inter-racial relationships? after all, if they do not want to be held by those principles, they shouldn't get a job at Mars!

I think that also in the USA there is the rule that the national constitution is legal everywhere, even in private US universities. So as long as they obey the constitution, they can make their own rules on campus. Correct me if I'm wrong.

the problem is that an institution such as a university can never truly be private, it also has public and ethical responsibilities, to its students and to the wider community. a business is private, but should an employer, say the head of Mars, be able to declare that he will not employ blacks or gays? or that his employees cannot engage in inter-racial relationships? after all, if they do not want to be held by those principles, they shouldn't get a job at Mars!

But where on the website does it say that inter-racial relationships are not allowed? It seems like no relationships are allowed period.

this is the famed bob jones university...not at all tyical of american universities.

Seems like a one off crap University with views of having strict and non-sensical values...

...let's not all start the normal trend of "Hey! It represents the whole place!" thing...which seems to bore me rigid. So let's have none of it before I put you all in there! :no:

Here I was gearing up for a political debate...and I get this....what a disappointment. Yeah, it is a horrible place, but if they don't like it they don't have to go...simple as that. Besides, everyone in the states knows that any part of South Carolina that's not on the beach is nomansland.

:jk:

Much as im anti-Bush, this university IMO doesn't have anything to do with life in Bush's America. This university seems like a private one so they can do anything they want (legally of course) and it would still have been like this if say Kerry was voted president.

i think its pretty sad that people can justify such things because something is private. its totally unjustifiable and in europe breaches more chunks of our human rights act than you can count.

I can't stand Bush. Can't stand heaps of things he has done as President, Governor or as a 'human being' And I blame him for many many things. Bob Jones University however is not a creation of Bush nor a result of his politics or of his presidency (as illegitimate as it may be). That Uni has been around for some time now. There are so many things to blame Bush for that we need not fabricate ones that he had not responsibility for.

Oh and by the way, BJU is not my idea of a well rounded, democratic, liberal education. Not a place I would go, nor is it a placfce that I would want any of my friends, family or even acquantances to be affiliated

But where on the website does it say that inter-racial relationships are not allowed? It seems like no relationships are allowed period.

okay it looks like they dropped the ban on inter-racial relationships. good for them. :) they're still a bunch of mentalists tho...

i think its pretty sad that people can justify such things because something is private. its totally unjustifiable and in europe breaches more chunks of our human rights act than you can count.

But what if Christian students want such an environment so they can entirely focus on their spirituality? They should have that option. In a nation of 300 million people, can't there be a few universities that caters to these people.

you have to think long term life repercussions here.Going to such a place will screw them up in all their personal relationships.

Who's Bob Jones?

Crap name, crap ideology.

Blow it up.

yellow tie = bottom....blatantly

so every school has to be an ultra liberal institution? Believe it or not...there are people who believe differently than you do. Isnt that a major part of liberalism--respecting one anothers differences. Does this only apply to homosexuals, Hindus, Buddihists, pot smokers, or people who think the same way as you? There are plenty of private schools in Europe--probally some that have religious backrounds. You know what means..Fuck Europe and their godloving ways. Thats what you guys sound like. This university is a private one....one that you have to pay some decent cash to atttend. If its a private one...why do you people give a shit about it? You dont pay for it, I dont pay for it....people who attend it pay for it. I happen to come out of a religious school...and its not any different really from a public one--except for we can pray,chapel, have religious classes, and outreach to the community. Is that such a bad thing....really? Does my love of Jesus make me less of a person that you...that you have to constantly attack people who believe in the same things as I do? If having good morals, being a good, nice person (like most of these guys at schools like this) is a problem with you....then go ask the Wizard of Oz for a fucking heart people...please. You peoples ultra liberal attitudes is really starting to get sickening--where you have to divide people....alienating the ones who you dont agree with.

whatever happened to letting people do whatever they want if they are not hurting others :ohno:

For real. These people arent on the streets killing, slingin cane, or getting themselves in trouble--they are leading good lives. I still dont see why people are shittin themselves because the USA has christians. Ohhhh yeah thats right..Bush is a Christian...so all Christians must be like Bush.

so every school has to be an ultra liberal institution? Believe it or not...there are people who believe differently than you do. Isnt that a major part of liberalism--respecting one anothers differences. Does this only apply to homosexuals, Hindus, Buddihists, pot smokers, or people who think the same way as you? There are plenty of private schools in Europe--probally some that have religious backrounds. You know what means..Fuck Europe and their godloving ways. Thats what you guys sound like. This university is a private one....one that you have to pay some decent cash to atttend. If its a private one...why do you people give a shit about it? You dont pay for it, I dont pay for it....people who attend it pay for it. I happen to come out of a religious school...and its not any different really from a public one--except for we can pray,chapel, have religious classes, and outreach to the community. Is that such a bad thing....really? Does my love of Jesus make me less of a person that you...that you have to constantly attack people who believe in the same things as I do? If having good morals, being a good, nice person (like most of these guys at schools like this) is a problem with you....then go ask the Wizard of Oz for a fucking heart people...please. You peoples ultra liberal attitudes is really starting to get sickening--where you have to divide people....alienating the ones who you dont agree with.

err I'm one of the biggest conservatives in the UK skybar and I think there is something wrong about that school, it seems to have closed it's mind to the outside world. We have alot of religion in our schools which I am in favour of, but even a church school would look at other religions and allow it's pupils to ask questions and have outside relationships with the rest of the world.

I would be criticising this school if it was a Muslim school, so I don't see why because it is a christian school it's practices should not be questioned. ie what are it's aims - will it be turning out Christian fanatics or well balanced students who have exposed to other cultures / religions - I think we all know the answer.

There are 5000 people who attend it...is this really a huge deal in a nation of 300 MILLION? Yeah, and of those 5000....there are people from 43 foreign nations...students of different color as well. I loooked through the website...and the school looks like a nice place. I still fail to see your points.

BJU (http://www.bju.edu/)

There are 5000 people who attend it...is this really a huge deal in a nation of 300 MILLION? Yeah, and of those 5000....there are people from 43 foreign nations...students of different color as well. I loooked through the website...and the school looks like a nice place. I still fail to see your points.

BJU (http://www.bju.edu/)

the question though ReddAlert is whether this is just the start of a larger pattern of private schools catering on education along these lines.

If this one proves financially succesful, will other simular schools across the States be formed - if there is money in it and there so often is with religion, over the next few years every state could have such a school - then you would have a problem as these pupils work the way up the ladder in to politics and law.

the school has been around since the 20's..so I dont think this is some new trend. Does it shock you though that people want their kids in these types of school? Our public schools blow...big time. As a matter of fact...they are fucked up. These private schools have tougher rules..and also have higher graduation rates. Like I said, I went to a conservative school that preached about Jesus on and on...and people stilll smoked weed, got drunk, had sex and kids, fought, swore, carried weapons. Dont worry dude...these places arent churning out an army of God. And even if they were...so what? They may preach to you..but its not like they are going to chop off your head or burn you at the stake if you dont get baptized. People on this site preach to me about THEIR beliefs...is it any different? Its a way of life and I dont understand why you people are so against it. Its not your business is what Im saying.

Hey, I went to that school. Thanks a lot everyone.

i think its pretty sad that people can justify such things because something is private. its totally unjustifiable and in europe breaches more chunks of our human rights act than you can count.

the US may have its faults but if it differs with europe in allowing this university to exist despite it being politically incorrect then this is one aspect of europe i'm glad the US does not share. there is nothing that this university does that would infringe on human rights and the students who do attend do so on their own choosing.


and yes, the fact it is a private institution has everything to do with it. don't know about europe but here, you have the right to do or teaching anything as long as it lies with in the confines of the law. bob jones has every right as a private university to teach religious classes and conduct their business as they may see fit.

So if I wanted to create the A. Hitler school I could in the US?

I sense a fundamental difference between European and American thinking here. Even liberal Americans (Jasonhouse must be a European in that case though...)



Not of Bush's making this, though...

but Christianity isnt harming anything...Hitler loving does.

So if I wanted to create the A. Hitler school I could in the US?


i wouldn't advise it but yeah, you could.

oh, that's not jasonhouse but jasonhoass...an impostor!

but Christianity isnt harming anything...
That's debatable...

oh, that's not jasonhouse but jasonhoass...an impostor!
Can't believe that got past me...
Well it is 0700 AM here and I haven't slept.

That's debatable...


only harmful to the liberal agenda

I guess these kids graduating from BJU come out well rounded individuals then...

I think I came out well rounded:
lol, i guess I have eaten too many burgers, but here is a picture of me on my way to church trying to figure out my dam camera. I was at my college reunion. Thanks again everyone for your complements of my college.
http://www.philipmalenfant.com/me

I am so suprised at how people are making fun of where I got my education. I am sadenned.

Oh I get it, you are trying to make clear there's to much stereotyping about Americans on this forum.

Some here are on your side, dude...

^God bless you. But I really did go to school there. The picture of me is at my reunion for BJU.

Redsmash; you're free to have schools like this in your country. Have as many as you want, it doesn't affect me. But equally, I'm free to rip the piss out of the school, and laugh my bollocks off about it :)

Here, here.

When a university thats is accredited by the state to provide higher education, and for its degrees to be recognised by the state it has a duty to not tell a section of society that they are evil. Any organisation also has absolutely no juristiction outside its property.

But the whole point of going to university is to teach critical thinking. In science and the arts the whole exercise is using rationality to prove or disprove something. To critically assess the merits or worth of something. To analyse the works of other people. I wonder whether they question what is in the bible, or take it literally. Do they believe in evolution? Do they even teach it?

Seriously, no dancing? Thank God we persecuted our puritans enough so they left. People thought they were a scary bunch back in the 17th century nothing has changed.

I have no problems with schools that have a heavy influence of religion, but those rules are draconion and even have biggotry in them - which is surely against the law.
Their rules on even what you can watch are surely similar to cultism in their control of a persons mind and restricts a persons basic rights of determinism.

Also, if the school were to teach lies too (ie creationism) then I'd be extremely against what they are doing.

Sure, it may be private but it's like a company turning round and saying "we're of x religion, if you don't follow these ancient and biggotted rules then you're sacked, but it's ok cause we're private"... in the case of christianity I'm pretty sure go against the actual teachings of christ ("love everyone", not "love everyone except them because they are deviants") never mind the law.

A university has a social contract to provide education and advancement of people, not to restrict them to the point of mental breakdown and teach them hatred, biggotry and possibly lies if they include things on the syllabus that have been proven to be incorrect - if it wasn't for how brainwashed some of them must be I'm surprised that there hasn't been a columbine style shooting happened there.

in the case of christianity I'm pretty sure go against the actual teachings of christ ("love everyone", not "love everyone except them because they are deviants")

I've never understood that. There's a lot of overly religious folk who seem to think us non-believers are nt worthy of their love. My mate got called a 'twat' by a sikh the other day for not believing in God. I found it quite funny, but surely it goes against what they're supposed to be believing in...

i didnt, i got it from livejournal where one of my friends posted it. for being a moderator on a site that accessed my site 18069 times to leech files last month and according to the search engine of said site failed to credit my site once you were saying jonny?


We've been bitching at members lately about this very kind of thing.

And Johnny's the one who brought it up from the forumer's perspective btw.(staff was already aware) :)

We've been bitching at members lately about this very kind of thing.

And Johnny's the one who brought it up from the forumer's perspective btw.(staff was already aware) :)

He isn't talking about people leaching from SSC he is talking about people leaching photos from Skyscrapernews to post at SSP.

But the only people leaching from Skyscrapernews are two UK SSC mods.......so he shot himself in the foot there.

I've never understood that. There's a lot of overly religious folk who seem to think us non-believers are nt worthy of their love. My mate got called a 'twat' by a sikh the other day for not believing in God. I found it quite funny, but surely it goes against what they're supposed to be believing in...

I know, they basically sing praise and go thru all the ceremony but they don't even listen to the teachings.. they simply pick out things that they think verify their hatred of a certain demograph and say "It's ok cause my religion says they're evil and must be hated".

they say their god is all loving, then surely it must love those that don't believe in it or don't follow their lives to the (human written) letter of the holy books they use in their religions. Instead they portray it as a homophobic, biggotted and racists egotistical hate monger who punishes anything that doesn't do as it says - no wonder they have that phrase "god fearing"... which always seemed like a strange thing to say considering it's mean to be compassionate and all loving!!

It's why I really have no faith in organised religion and it's purpose has passed - keep the teachings but ditch the ceremony and rituals because if you want to celebrate your god then singing songs that would only pander to an ego won't help you... leading a tollerant life where you are good to people out of the goodness of your heart instead of the bribary of heaven and the dictatorship telling you you have to... be good for goodness sake not because you're told you have to be, then you'll be closer to your god than you'll ever be.

Indeed. I don't want to tar everyone with the same brush though, because there are many religious fellas who do live peaceful lives, and try to help their fellow man when they can, which is fair enough.

yup, my nana is like that... but the outdated restrictions that the organised religion tries to push onto everyone tends to breed hate amongst some of their followers and gets used as a tool for their biggotted agendas and views as some way of vindicating an belief that is simply wrong.

this is the famed bob jones university...not at all tyical of american universities.

I dont know, you should see the Disneyland site for employees, it is almost just as bad! Lengths of sideburns, hair styles, all sorts of bland corporate intolerence.... its definitely a U.S. thang ;)

here is the difference as i see it: american liberals prioritise granting a private organisation the same rights as an individual person over being aware of a private organisation's social responsibilities. the balance for european liberals seems to be more in favour of holding an organisation, private or public, to it's social responsibilities.

perversely, the american view of giving institutions like bju the same rights as an individual, ends up with individuals willingly losing part of their rights!

i suppose an American would have no problem whatsoever with a private company like Mars only hiring white, heterosexual workers?

and the european view seems to include "protecting individuals from exploitation or from losing their rights" as a tenet of a "social responsibility" in a way that american liberals do not.

^God bless you. But I really did go to school there. The picture of me is at my reunion for BJU.
But I saw other pics of you. This is not you.
Also, you never mentioned going to BJU in South Carolina.
So did you really?
Time to come clean bro...;)

There's a chain of stores here called Abercrombie and Fitch. They sell clothing for teenagers and young adults. Although they don't advertise it...it is well known that you have to be an attractive, young, white person to work there. A friend of mine was a manager there and was told a few times to "find an excuse to fire someone" because they weren't attractive or didn't have the right look. Although they company right now isn’t doing as well (they sell preppy looking clothes and right now the punk look is popular), you can go to almost any mall around here and find a store. They were featured on national news for these policies, but no one seems bothered.

The point of that story being, is that the way Americans tend to look at it is "your freedoms end at my nose" as long as they don't think it's affecting them, they're ok with it. What people don't realize is how true the cliche of if you give someone an inch, they'll take a mile. By allowing things like this to exist, you are saying there's nothing wrong with intolerance, and although you can make it out to be innocent enough...it doesn't change the fact that intolerance of any kind can lead to hatred.

My dad is a pastor of a Baptist church and I was brought up in a religious home and I know that every Christian isn't a fundamentalist wacko and no, every person isn't forced to go to that school. However, something that Christians fail to understand is that their "I'm right, you're wrong, you're all going to hell" philosophy is both off putting and offensive. Tolerance and coexistence is what will make a better future and if Christians don't realize this, they will find themselves living in the past.

here is the difference as i see it: american liberals prioritise granting a private organisation the same rights as an individual person over being aware of a private organisation's social responsibilities. the balance for european liberals seems to be more in favour of holding an organisation, private or public, to it's social responsibilities.

perversely, the american view of giving institutions like bju the same rights as an individual, ends up with individuals willingly losing part of their rights!
You are on to something here...



i suppose an American would have no problem whatsoever with a private company like Mars only hiring white, heterosexual workers?
Nah, I don't think that's legal in the US. Also many Americans have different views on this. No such thing as "the American"...



and the european view seems to include "protecting individuals from exploitation or from losing their rights" as a tenet of a "social responsibility" in a way that american liberals do not.
I did notice a difference in thinking between the Americans and Europeans in this thread, hence my earlier comment. But that assesment is hardly scientific and I don't think it applies to a broader sample of Americans. There must be many that don't think creating a A. Hitler school should be legal.
But there's definately a factor of what we are used to (not tolerating the intolerant) and what Americans are used to (the right of private persons and organisations) in their country.
That's what I think at least...

Nah, I don't think that's legal in the US. Also many Americans have different views on this. No such thing as "the American"...



i was being deliberately provocative regarding the private company issue, i don't think many people would support that, but the example may help to make people look at the issue in a new light.

and i don't mean to generalise about americans in general, but i have had the "bob jones university conversation" so many times, and i've noticed how differently european and americans approach it. what i was describing isn't scientific, just my observations.

I know, they basically sing praise and go thru all the ceremony but they don't even listen to the teachings.. they simply pick out things that they think verify their hatred of a certain demograph and say "It's ok cause my religion says they're evil and must be hated".

they say their god is all loving, then surely it must love those that don't believe in it or don't follow their lives to the (human written) letter of the holy books they use in their religions. Instead they portray it as a homophobic, biggotted and racists egotistical hate monger who punishes anything that doesn't do as it says - no wonder they have that phrase "god fearing"... which always seemed like a strange thing to say considering it's mean to be compassionate and all loving!!



How do you know the Sikhs cannot hate those who don't believe in God? The Muslims can.

There are way too much simplifying and anti-Christian bias here.

Most Christians are nothing like you described above, and do try to follow the tenets of their religion. By giving to charity, being monogamous, not stealing, so on.

Since when where Christians known for being racists?? I've never heard that.

I'm sorry, but Christians will always be homophobic, anti-polygamous sex, and anti-drugs. They try to follow what they believe is divine scripture given to man from God, and in doing so, has become fact.

That's just something you have to accept about them.

And I don't see what is wrong with a school that forbades the use of drugs, alcohol, pre-martial sex, or too colorful clothing, whatever.

If it's soo terrible, then the school would've gone out of business a long time ago.

here is the difference as i see it: american liberals prioritise granting a private organisation the same rights as an individual person over being aware of a private organisation's social responsibilities. the balance for european liberals seems to be more in favour of holding an organisation, private or public, to it's social responsibilities.

perversely, the american view of giving institutions like bju the same rights as an individual, ends up with individuals willingly losing part of their rights!

i suppose an American would have no problem whatsoever with a private company like Mars only hiring white, heterosexual workers?

and the european view seems to include "protecting individuals from exploitation or from losing their rights" as a tenet of a "social responsibility" in a way that american liberals do not.

Individuals who decide to attend the university surrender their rights by own will. It's like working, you surrender your leisure time to be a slave to a corporation, and in return, you get money.

Of course private companies can't only hire white, heterosexual workers, that's breaking a few laws. It's like saying private companies can kill their employees if they are behind quota.

What rights are being taken away here? I don't see the issue. There are restaurants you can't dine in at without a formal jacket.

If it's soo terrible, then the school would've gone out of business a long time ago.

this is something else i have noticed, americans far more than europeans, believe in this idea that the hidden hand of the market directs all things to a desirable end, that the free market is some sort of democracy working towards an ineluctable good. how wacky :nuts:

Individuals who decide to attend the university surrender their rights by own will. It's like working, you surrender your leisure time to be a slave to a corporation, and in return, you get money.

Of course private companies can't only hire white, heterosexual workers, that's breaking a few laws. It's like saying private companies can kill their employees if they are behind quota.

What rights are being taken away here? I don't see the issue. There are restaurants you can't dine in at without a formal jacket.

what would be different about a private school only admitting heterosexual, white people, to a private corporation only hiring heterosexual, white people? nothing! should a school be able to outlaw inter-racial relationships, as bju was until recently? should a private corporation be able to outlaw the same? to me, as to many europeans/brits, permitting this would be perverse. institutions and corporations have power and influence beyond the power and influence of an individual, and as such have responsibilities to how they interact with society beyond the responsibilities enacted on individuals in their own personal relationships.

the matter of their own will isn't so relevant, exploitation works by consent, indeed, it exploits that willingness or desire, if not, then it is coercion. should a private company or institution be able to act with the same discretion and discrimination as an individual would? or should basic human rights permeate throughout society to the extent whereby they are valid even within private institutions?

this is something else i have noticed, americans far more than europeans, believe in this idea that the hidden hand of the market directs all things to a desirable end, that the free market is some sort of democracy working towards an ineluctable good. how wacky :nuts:

being humans are rational beings who do things to benefit either themselves or someone close to them. Every action we take is in hope that some kind of good or benefit will come from it. :)

How do you know the Sikhs cannot hate those who don't believe in God? The Muslims can.

There are way too much simplifying and anti-Christian bias here.


I wasn't referring only to christianity, look at my use of language - I was referring to "their god" and "their religion"...


Most Christians are nothing like you described above, and do try to follow the tenets of their religion. By giving to charity, being monogamous, not stealing, so on.


Some do yes, but I know a fair percentage who don't and use their religion as a reasoning behind holding a biggotted view.


Since when where Christians known for being racists?? I've never heard that.

Race is more than simply the colour of your skin and the actions of christians past and even present have certainly been racist (the mention of the ban on interracial relationships is evident of this).


I'm sorry, but Christians will always be homophobic, anti-polygamous sex, and anti-drugs. They try to follow what they believe is divine scripture given to man from God, and in doing so, has become fact.

That's just something you have to accept about them.

but I'll never accept someone using stories written by humans over a few thousand years ago as an excuse to be homophobic or biggotted (polygamous sex and drugs aren't an issue and have no problems with others taking part in or abstaining from them) because at the end of the day we as humans evolve and change, we realise what we are doing is wrong and become more enlightened... saying that a person can be homophobic just because their ancient writings tell them that it's ok to be like that is an indefensable stance and actually goes against the basic principles of all the major religions and so isn't even defendable within their own faith!!
Biggotry should never be tollerated regardless of if they use their religion as their reason.


And I don't see what is wrong with a school that forbades the use of drugs, alcohol, pre-martial sex, or too colorful clothing, whatever.

I don't see anything wrong with an educational institute having rules that forbids use of certain substances, requires a certain lvl of uniform clothing but those rules effectively turn the place into a monestry from ancient times where all freedom has been stamped out and is too extreme and actually goes as far as to restrict a persons ability to determine how they live a greater proportion of their life...

what would be different about a private school only admitting heterosexual, white people, to a private corporation only hiring heterosexual, white people? nothing! should a school be able to outlaw inter-racial relationships, as bju was until recently? should a private corporation be able to outlaw the same? to me, as to many europeans/brits, permitting this would be perverse. institutions and corporations have power and influence beyond the power and influence of an individual, and as such have responsibilities to how they interact with society beyond the responsibilities enacted on individuals in their own personal relationships.

the matter of their own will isn't so relevant, exploitation works by consent, indeed, it exploits that willingness or desire, if not, then it is coercion. should a private company or institution be able to act with the same discretion and discrimination as an individual would? or should basic human rights permeate throughout society to the extent whereby they are valid even within private institutions?

The only issue I see here is homosexuality. Which is the trickiest issue with Christianity. Everyone can accept Christians looking down on polygamy, pre-martial sex, murder, thievery, but homosexuality is a very heated issue.

The US is still backwards with this issue, since even the army doesn't allow homosexuals.

And Europe was the setting of Jane Erye, so don't lecture me about strict abusive schools!!!!!!!! ;)

There's a chain of stores here called Abercrombie and Fitch. They sell clothing for teenagers and young adults. Although they don't advertise it...it is well known that you have to be an attractive, young, white person to work there. A friend of mine was a manager there and was told a few times to "find an excuse to fire someone" because they weren't attractive or didn't have the right look. Although they company right now isn’t doing as well (they sell preppy looking clothes and right now the punk look is popular), you can go to almost any mall around here and find a store. They were featured on national news for these policies, but no one seems bothered.

The point of that story being, is that the way Americans tend to look at it is "your freedoms end at my nose" as long as they don't think it's affecting them, they're ok with it. What people don't realize is how true the cliche of if you give someone an inch, they'll take a mile. By allowing things like this to exist, you are saying there's nothing wrong with intolerance, and although you can make it out to be innocent enough...it doesn't change the fact that intolerance of any kind can lead to hatred.

My dad is a pastor of a Baptist church and I was brought up in a religious home and I know that every Christian isn't a fundamentalist wacko and no, every person isn't forced to go to that school. However, something that Christians fail to understand is that their "I'm right, you're wrong, you're all going to hell" philosophy is both off putting and offensive. Tolerance and coexistence is what will make a better future and if Christians don't realize this, they will find themselves living in the past.

I cant stand the bigotry surrounding religion, its one of the reasons I abstain from following any faith. I'll look after myself thankyou - the only person looking down on me is the person in the CCTV room :nuts:

The only issue I see here is homosexuality. Which is the trickiest issue with Christianity. Everyone can accept Christians looking down on polygamy, pre-martial sex, murder, thievery, but homosexuality is a very heated issue.

The US is still backwards with this issue, since even the army doesn't allow homosexuals.

And Europe was the setting of Jane Erye, so don't lecture me about strict abusive schools!!!!!!!! ;)

re: strict abusive schools and homosexuality, james joyce said that homosexuality "is the logical and inescapable product of the anglo-saxon college and university system" :) perhaps the two go hand-in-hand, or something else in hand...

this is something else i have noticed, americans far more than europeans, believe in this idea that the hidden hand of the market directs all things to a desirable end, that the free market is some sort of democracy working towards an ineluctable good. how wacky :nuts:
Indeed!

Jesusland indeed :D

http://www.geocities.com/xxfightforyourmindxx/newUSA.jpg

I really can’t believe anyone is defending this place's right to exist. I certainly don’t think its typical of the USA or even any part of it but is shouldn’t be able to have the rule sit does IMO.

The idea of the entirely free contract without any government laws getting in the ay went out with the 19th century and will hopefully never return.

No western country allows an employer this much interference in people's private lives, no western country that I know of allows landlord to inspect their tenants premises on a daily basis, without notice and without justification.

Should a university be any different?

Personally I think the limits on the powers of universities to control people's lives should be less then an employer or a landlord. In those cases there is an argument that the individual personally signs up to the contract has all the control. In this case NO students have the money to pay their own fees- they aren’t forced there against their will but for most - if they want to go to university they require somebody else to pay the fees. Consequently students do not have complete choice over which university they attend and so the outrageous sacrifices these rules make to people freedom after that initial choice are completely unjustified.

To answer Lou's question about witch rules are so bad. /. I think there's only really one rule that’s so bad - but it combines with other s to be atrocious. That is the first rule

Most of the other rule could be just about justified as conditions of living in the student accommodation where your actions will affect others. Even stuff like the limitation on music could be sort of justified by saying that it will be heard by others who do not want to hear such music - or that posters will offend any flatmates or neighbouring students who happen to come round- or that light on after 12 will keep others up. However all of those excuses are blown away by the rule which says

" A student must live in one of the University residence halls unless he is living with parents or other close relatives (approved by the Dean of Men's or Dean of Women's office), is 23 years old or older, is married and over the age of 20, or is a graduate student. "

There can be no justification that such activities offend others or that they are forcing people to live in those surrounding who would be quite happy to hide their offensive music and tastes elsewhere aware form the school.

How on earth can anywhere tell 22 year old adult male where they have to live - and refuse to give them a government-accredited education if they don't do so?

I’m amazed that Americans on this thread are so blasé about these adults being made to live like children. It’s bad enough you don’t allow 20 year olds to drink but having somewhere that 22 years old cant listen to music or live where they choose is not just pathetic but mentally harmful IMO.

here is the difference as i see it: american liberals prioritise granting a private organisation the same rights as an individual person over being aware of a private organisation's social responsibilities. the balance for european liberals seems to be more in favour of holding an organisation, private or public, to it's social responsibilities.

perversely, the american view of giving institutions like bju the same rights as an individual, ends up with individuals willingly losing part of their rights!

i suppose an American would have no problem whatsoever with a private company like Mars only hiring white, heterosexual workers?

and the european view seems to include "protecting individuals from exploitation or from losing their rights" as a tenet of a "social responsibility" in a way that american liberals do not.

the differences between americans and europeans in this regard boils down a social libertarianism. in the US; anyone, any religion or any group can hold any belief they choose (no matter how off the wall it may) and they are totally free to do so...as long as it does not jeopardize the rights of others.

europe picks and chooses who can have freedom of expression and i don't go along with that. if a particular group is deemed "socially uncouth" it is denied the right to exist. yes, nazis and racists may have the right to organize and congragate here in the US but i would rather have a system that grants free expression for all over one that chooses who will have that right.

I really can’t believe anyone is defending this place's right to exist. I certainly don’t think its typical of the USA or even any part of it but is shouldn’t be able to have the rule sit does IMO.

The idea of the entirely free contract without any government laws getting in the ay went out with the 19th century and will hopefully never return.

No western country allows an employer this much interference in people's private lives, no western country that I know of allows landlord to inspect their tenants premises on a daily basis, without notice and without justification.

Should a university be any different?

Personally I think the limits on the powers of universities to control people's lives should be less then an employer or a landlord. In those cases there is an argument that the individual personally signs up to the contract has all the control. In this case NO students have the money to pay their own fees- they aren’t forced there against their will but for most - if they want to go to university they require somebody else to pay the fees. Consequently students do not have complete choice over which university they attend and so the outrageous sacrifices these rules make to people freedom after that initial choice are completely unjustified.

To answer Lou's question about witch rules are so bad. /. I think there's only really one rule that’s so bad - but it combines with other s to be atrocious. That is the first rule

Most of the other rule could be just about justified as conditions of living in the student accommodation where your actions will affect others. Even stuff like the limitation on music could be sort of justified by saying that it will be heard by others who do not want to hear such music - or that posters will offend any flatmates or neighbouring students who happen to come round- or that light on after 12 will keep others up. However all of those excuses are blown away by the rule which says

" A student must live in one of the University residence halls unless he is living with parents or other close relatives (approved by the Dean of Men's or Dean of Women's office), is 23 years old or older, is married and over the age of 20, or is a graduate student. "

There can be no justification that such activities offend others or that they are forcing people to live in those surrounding who would be quite happy to hide their offensive music and tastes elsewhere aware form the school.

How on earth can anywhere tell 22 year old adult male where they have to live - and refuse to give them a government-accredited education if they don't do so?

I’m amazed that Americans on this thread are so blasé about these adults being made to live like children. It’s bad enough you don’t allow 20 year olds to drink but having somewhere that 22 years old cant listen to music or live where they choose is not just pathetic but mentally harmful IMO.

blasé? hey, if people want to attend such a university, it is their choice, their decision and i'd rather not have a nanny state decide that for them. BJU students are not forced to enroll there and can attend any college they want.

that 22 year old adult enrolled at BJU who is fed up with having a strict set of rules can drop out or tranfer to another college at anytime he chooses.

"yes, nazis and racists may have the right to organize and congragate here in the US but i would rather have a system that grants free expression for all over one that chooses who will have that right."


You mean they can't in Europe!?! :ohno:

"yes, nazis and racists may have the right to organize and congragate here in the US but i would rather have a system that grants free expression for all over one that chooses who will have that right."


You mean they can't in Europe!?! :ohno:

i think you will find that neo-nazis and racists do have the right to free congregation in europe. however if they tried to open a university preaching nazi ideology, and barring blacks or jews or gays from this university, they would probably be closed down. i take it in america if such a university tried to open, or if a private business, whatever its size, tried to run by these principles, that would be a-okay? after all, one is not forced to join or work for them, so what is the problem?

The invisible hand of the Free Market shall decide what is best for us. :yes:



jk. That wouldn't be allowed.

^actually you would be able to sue them because they cannot discriminate against you for being a jew or black.

^actually you would be able to sue them because they cannot discriminate against you for being a jew or black.

why on earth not? after all they are a private entity, and should be able to have their own principles (no matter how off the wall they are). that is freedom after all, which i prefer, rather than "picking and choosing" what freedoms groups can and cannot have. :|

about that hidden hand... i think it is wanking loureed off :jk:

why on earth not? after all they are a private entity, and should be able to have their own principles (no matter how off the wall they are). that is freedom after all, which i prefer, rather than "picking and choosing" what freedoms groups can and cannot have. :|

well, i have stated a couple of times that people/groups are free to parctice what they want as long as it does not limit the rights of others or has guidlines that conflict with the law. discrimination is illegal so if a nazi school did set up shop, by law, they would have to accept blacks, jews, catholics, etc...

The invisible hand of the Free Market shall decide what is best for us. :yes:



jk. That wouldn't be allowed.

actually, you're dead on. no one would attend a nazi university so it would not be profitable and shut down as fast as it opened.

that 22 year old adult enrolled at BJU who is fed up with having a strict set of rules can drop out or tranfer to another college at anytime he chooses.



Not always - because in many/most cases he isn’t paying the bills.

In any case I still see it as throwback Victorian thinking- you can equally argue that tenants can just move to another property if their landlord is out of order, and that nobody forces employees to go to work so they’ve no right to complain if they are paid below the minimum wage and work 20 hours a day. Sometimes one side in a contractual negotiation has too strong a hand and can get away with abuse without the law to stop them.

I would have thought that rarely applies as strongly as it does in the case of universities - attendance of which ha san end purpose to get a degree for that university. This isn’t a detox health club or a monastery which people go to purely for the experience and for their own personal development - its a university which gives out legitimate government endorsed BA degrees which people want to help their employment prospects.

Ive no idea how well respected Bob Jones uni is with employers and how good a leg up it gives you in life- but ultimately that is its purpose for most people. They have something to award to people which has value in the outside world in areas unrelated to it and it shouldn’t be allowed to make people have to walk through broken glass to get it.

Here are typical quotes from the website "Some of the top four accounting firms in the United States, as well as several regional accounting firms, recruit annually on the campus." “Our graduates not only are readily accepted in most graduate schools, but also are eagerly recruited"


If it stopped awarding degrees and wasn’t able to be put on people CVs I'd have no problems with it and would be happy for the closed minded automata that wish to attend it to do so.

I don't want to talk for all Europeans - but I’d guess very few people here have any issue with crap like the freemasons existing (it's peoples choice what they do with their lives) but most people do have a problem with jobs and business transactions in the real world being affected by it.

well, i have stated a couple of times that people/groups are free to parctice what they want as long as it does not limit the rights of others or has guidlines that conflict with the law. discrimination is illegal so if a nazi school did set up shop, by law, they would have to accept blacks, jews, catholics, etc...



actually, you're dead on. no one would attend a nazi university so it would not be profitable and shut down as fast as it opened.

what a cop-out! why is a private corporation employing discrimination over appointments illegal? it doesn't infringe upon anyone's rights, they are a private corp who are entitled to do as they wish! right?
or is it illegal because the law-makers are aware of the social influence/power and therefore the social responsibilities of private entities? the very stance the "europeans" here have been advocating.

and a belief in the essential goodness or democracy of the free market is imho thorougly incredible.

these are worrying times for americans with george bush at the helm

i will never forget doing a concert in abaleen (cant spell it) in texas in 2000...first half over ..we all went out to chat to the audience in the foyer as you do,,,,oh no....they prayed for us and our tour for 20mins non stop in silence then watched the second half...was weird! bible beltage arama

Not always - because in many/most cases he isn’t paying the bills.

In any case I still see it as throwback Victorian thinking- you can equally argue that tenants can just move to another property if their landlord is out of order, and that nobody forces employees to go to work so they’ve no right to complain if they are paid below the minimum wage and work 20 hours a day. Sometimes one side in a contractual negotiation has too strong a hand and can get away with abuse without the law to stop them.

iunlike the case of apartments and jobs, most people know perfectly well what they are getting into when the enroll at that school. bob jones makes no secret about their rules and doctrine and anyone thinking they're gonna have drunken orgies in the dorms there has been living under a rock or has done no research on where they are going to go to college. where as most people do not take a job knowing the boss is a dick and works them to do death for shit pay. same thing with apartment, no one seeks a place with roaches and a shady landlord.

Ive no idea how well respected Bob Jones uni is with employers and how good a leg up it gives you in life- but ultimately that is its purpose for most people. They have something to award to people which has value in the outside world in areas unrelated to it and it shouldn’t be allowed to make people have to walk through broken glass to get it.

Here are typical quotes from the website "Some of the top four accounting firms in the United States, as well as several regional accounting firms, recruit annually on the campus." “Our graduates not only are readily accepted in most graduate schools, but also are eagerly recruited"


If it stopped awarding degrees and wasn’t able to be put on people CVs I'd have no problems with it and would be happy for the closed minded automata that wish to attend it to do so.

I don't want to talk for all Europeans - but I’d guess very few people here have any issue with crap like the freemasons existing (it's peoples choice what they do with their lives) but most people do have a problem with jobs and business transactions in the real world being affected by it.

other than the hooplah about the school due to their fundie culture, i have no idea how the actual programs are but it appears to be fairly average academiclly. those same employers that "eagerly" recruit BJU students doe the same in most other universities as well.

also, not sure about europe (i would image same standards as here) but a college just can't pull a degree program out of its ass and expect it to have some legitimacy. many programs still have to be accredited and endorsed by a board. so if BJU offers a degree in accounting, it would have to be similar to ones offered by any other college. the students may have to take religious based courses as electives but the courses related to the major have to be legit...not "god, the calculator and you 101" but real acoounting classes.

Bob Jones University is not an accredited University. Their degree doesn't mean shit. They can do whatever the hell they want, they are not an accredited University. Does anyone know what that means not to be an accredited University? There is a reason it is not an accredited University, it is because they don't follow the rules to be an accredited University, their degree is worthless. I can form my own club or organization and do whatever the hell I like and call it whatever I like. No matter how much I may disagree with them they are a private organization that is not accredited. Now if this was an accredited University it would be another story.

This was a huge misunderstanding. :)

what a cop-out! why is a private corporation employing discrimination over appointments illegal? it doesn't infringe upon anyone's rights, they are a private corp who are entitled to do as they wish! right?
or is it illegal because the law-makers are aware of the social influence/power and therefore the social responsibilities of private entities? the very stance the "europeans" here have been advocating.

and a belief in the essential goodness or democracy of the free market is imho thorougly incredible.


first of all, it sounds like we are drifting away from BJU and to corporations in general taking advantage of people. second, i am no cheerleader of corporate america and i have been arguing against corporate personhood (gives them more rights) for years and i think corporations should be more scrutinized becuase 9 times out of 10, they are doing something they shouldn't. the problem lies with the government not enforcing laws they are breaking or looking the other way by taking kickbacks. trust me, if bob jones was doing some shady stuff i didn't know about, i would be all for shutting them down but teaching fundie classes and making its students to dress like it's 1899 arn't reason enough for that.

and if you don't think discrimination equates to infringment of rights, what do you think the civil rights movement here in the US was all about?

@qwerty...

i had no idea they weren't accredited. i thought they were but to add to my response to Rigadon above, now that i know they arn't accredited, that puts them below average in terms of academics.

Bob Jones University is not an accredited University. Their degree doesn't mean shit. They can do whatever the hell they want, they are not an accredited University. Does anyone know what that means not to be an accredited University? There is a reason it is not an accredited University, it is because they don't follow the rules to be an accredited University, their degree is worthless. I can form my own club or organization and do whatever the hell I like and call it whatever I like. No matter how much I may disagree with them they are a private organization that is not accredited. Now if this was an accredited University it would be another story.


Ok well that is interesting and changes things in my mind. Why are they able to call their degrees bachelors, master etc? are those not protected terms- it seems to me rather confusing to employers if they arent.

Why are they able to call their degrees bachelors, master etc?
I have no clue.

first of all, it sounds like we are drifting away from BJU and to corporations in general taking advantage of people. second, i am no cheerleader of corporate america and i have been arguing against corporate personhood (gives them more rights) for years and i think corporations should be more scrutinized becuase 9 times out of 10, they are doing something they shouldn't. the problem lies with the government not enforcing laws they are breaking or looking the other way by taking kickbacks. trust me, if bob jones was doing some shady stuff i didn't know about, i would be all for shutting them down but teaching fundie classes and making its students to dress like it's 1899 arn't reason enough for that.

and if you don't think discrimination equates to infringment of rights, what do you think the civil rights movement here in the US was all about?

@qwerty...

i had no idea they weren't accredited. i thought they were but to add to my response to Rigadon above, now that i know they arn't accredited, that puts them below average in terms of academics.

no, i DO think discrimination by PRIVATE entities equates to infringement of rights! that is my whole point! i agree that in its present state bju doesn't do anything to warrant government penalty, but up till 2000 it banned inter-racial relationships, and imo that equates to an infringement of rights and should not be tolerated, and the excuse that this policy it was practiced by a private institution is no excuse.

iunlike the case of apartments and jobs, most people know perfectly well what they are getting into when the enroll at that school. bob jones makes no secret about their rules and doctrine and anyone thinking they're gonna have drunken orgies in the dorms there has been living under a rock or has done no research on where they are going to go to college. where as most people do not take a job knowing the boss is a dick and works them to do death for shit pay. same thing with apartment, no one seeks a place with roaches and a shady landlord.

.

Im not taliking about secret and underhand changes that people didnt know they signed up to- I'm talking about the limitation the state rightly puts on terms of contracts. An employer can make it perfectly clear that they will offer less than the minimum wage but they arent allowed to do so.

From the Federal Government.

"Institution does not have a Program Participation Agreement with the US Department of Education. Eligible students can NOT receive federal aid."

% of students receiving aid:
Federal Grants (scholarship/fellowship)...........0% ----
State/Local grants (scholarship/fellowship)......1% ----
Institutional grants (scholarship/fellowship)......0% ----
Loans to students......................................1%


Now where I go to school DePaul University:
Federal Grants (scholarship/fellowship)............28%
State/Local grants (scholarship/fellowship)......42%
Institutional grants (scholarship/fellowship)......64%
Loans to students.......................................49%
68% of the students at DePaul Univ. receive some sort of aid that is not a loan but a grant.

Bob Jones University is not an accredited University. Their degree doesn't mean shit. They can do whatever the hell they want, they are not an accredited University. Does anyone know what that means not to be an accredited University? There is a reason it is not an accredited University, it is because they don't follow the rules to be an accredited University, their degree is worthless.

You crazy yankees with your socialist "rules" :ohno:. Why does a university have to be approved by the commie state to have credibility? If capitalist entrepreneurs like these students then that is justification enough isn't it?

about that hidden hand... i think it is wanking loureed off :jk:

That hidden hand of the free market always knows what's best for us.

@ qwety - Glad to hear it - as I hinted above I never saw this as anything to do with Bush.

^I just edited my post

That hidden hand of the free market always knows what's best for us.
you bloody pervert :lol: :weirdo:

the differences between americans and europeans in this regard boils down a social libertarianism. in the US; anyone, any religion or any group can hold any belief they choose (no matter how off the wall it may) and they are totally free to do so...as long as it does not jeopardize the rights of others.

europe picks and chooses who can have freedom of expression and i don't go along with that. if a particular group is deemed "socially uncouth" it is denied the right to exist. yes, nazis and racists may have the right to organize and congragate here in the US but i would rather have a system that grants free expression for all over one that chooses who will have that right.
Sorry, but in practice, different groups are much more free where I live than in (some parts) the US. Only groups promoting violence and bigotry have it easier in the states.

BJU does jeopardize the rights of others.

But I saw other pics of you. This is not you.
Also, you never mentioned going to BJU in South Carolina.
So did you really?
Time to come clean bro...;)
o.k.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?threadid=73833

Im not taliking about secret and underhand changes that people didnt know they signed up to- I'm talking about the limitation the state rightly puts on terms of contracts. An employer can make it perfectly clear that they will offer less than the minimum wage but they arent allowed to do so.

no employer can announce and then follow through they would pay less than the minimum wage. well, they can if the labor board isn't aware of it. take for example my shit job; the law requires a 10 minute break in the morning and another one in the afternoon but by boss doesn't allow it. is it illegal, yes but the employees are worried about their job and won't report him.

no, i DO think discrimination by PRIVATE entities equates to infringement of rights! that is my whole point! i agree that in its present state bju doesn't do anything to warrant government penalty, but up till 2000 it banned inter-racial relationships, and imo that equates to an infringement of rights and should not be tolerated, and the excuse that this policy it was practiced by a private institution is no excuse.

yeah, i agree about the banning of inter-racial relationships, but from what i understand, i still don't think it was illegal becuase quite a while ago, the government threatened to withhold grants if BJU didn't abolish that policy. BJU refused any future public moeny and retained than rule for quite a few years. imo, the gov't should have forced BJU to abolish that rule when inter-racial marriages were allowed in 1967.

There's a chain of stores here called Abercrombie and Fitch. They sell clothing for teenagers and young adults. Although they don't advertise it...it is well known that you have to be an attractive, young, white person to work there. A friend of mine was a manager there and was told a few times to "find an excuse to fire someone" because they weren't attractive or didn't have the right look. Although they company right now isn’t doing as well (they sell preppy looking clothes and right now the punk look is popular), you can go to almost any mall around here and find a store. They were featured on national news for these policies, but no one seems bothered.

Ironic that you should mention Abercrombie & Fitch - I was just reading the BJU dress code webpage which has:

"Abercrombie & Fitch and its subsidiary Hollister have shown an unusual degree of antagonism to the name of Christ and an unusual display of wickedness in their promotions. In protest, we will not allow articles displaying their logos to be worn, carried, or displayed (even if covered or masked in some way)."

i will never forget doing a concert in abaleen (cant spell it) in texas in 2000...first half over ..we all went out to chat to the audience in the foyer as you do,,,,oh no....they prayed for us and our tour for 20mins non stop in silence then watched the second half...was weird! bible beltage arama

What the hell kind of concert were you performing that they had to pray for you for 20 minutes?! :?

If they ban A&F what will college students wear? That must present a huge dilema for the students.

A&F catalogues are considered provocative...that was a scandal a few years back. That's why they have them banned. The entire Baptist religion is supposed to boycott them...and Disney World, oddly enough.

I loved Bush's latest blunder today, mis-pronouncing the name of his new guy! :D

He was supposed to go visit some of the nuclear plants in Oak Ridge here yesterday (that's the formerly secret city where they built at least part of the atomic bombs). But there was a horrible storm so he just made a speech on the environment at the airport. What does this teach us? god himself does not want W. in Tennessee.

you mean he unpronounciated the name

lol, Bob Jones Uni, subject to one of the est chapters of a book i've read - Al Frankens LIES!, he goes there with his son pretending he is a potential student - except it backfires when not only do a number of students recognise franken, but the dean is one of the friendly most honest folks he's ever met and he eventually feels bad about lying. Its really funny, i recommend the book highly.

o.k.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?threadid=73833
:okay:

im just glad america and britain are best friends lets take over the world

@ qwety - Glad to hear it - as I hinted above I never saw this as anything to do with Bush.
Bash Bush away. I can't stand him.

http://ntserver.homeip.net/images/Wallpapers/Global%20Warming%202054.jpg

The future of Bush's America


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