question for everyone here: there are some states that some categorize as one type of state, some categorize as another. i am referring to their geographic locations. for instance, my delaware is called a southern state by a lot of people from new england. people from florida or georgia call it a northern state. similarly, they say that one way to tell if someone is from maryland is that they will get mad at you if you call it a "southern state" or "northern state". they say they are from a middle state. as for delaware being a southern or northern state, i say neither and both. i think it's neither, that it's a middle state (just like marylanders think of their state); but if i had to pick one, it would pick more than one. the line between the north and the south pretty much goes right through delaware. wilmingotn is certainly a northern state with northern characteristics, yet southern delaware ("slower lower" as we call it) is just like any rural place in the south, with its farms, slow-paced living, etc.

so where do you think these states are? these are some ones i could think of off the top of my head that are debatable and a little confusing.

delaware: northern, southern, or something else?
maryland: northern, southern, or something else?
west virginia: northeast, southeast, midwest, something else?
texas: southeast, southwest, something else?
the dakotas: midwest or something else?

if there are any others that might be confusing, add them to the discussion.

maryland and delaware are definetly northern in my opinion.

texas - not really southern or southwestern but just 'texas'

west virginia - the red headed step child no one wants to claim.

dakotas - great plains aling with kansas, oklahoma, nebraska, wyoming, montana, etc..

More than half the people in this country don't even know West Virginia is a state. That is one reason why it doesn't really fit in.

That reminds me of a story I heard about a woman in Arizona who was pulled over for having a WV license plate, because the copper told here it wasn't a real state...wow. Anyways, Maryland's nowhere. It's its own league as far as I'm concerned. Weather wise, I would call it a mixed bag: humid, ugly heat in summer and really cold winters. Too middle of the road. People who live in Maryland should know how unpredictable it is. Let's see, today was 88 for a high and the days before were in the upper 70s. Guess what tomorrow's going to be like? Mid 50s and cloudy! My stars, I don't recall the last time it was 80 at 9 o'clock at night in April. Really, it's that nutty around here. Politically, we would be a heavily conservative and southern style state were it not for Baltimore, Montgomery Co., or PG county; the three most populated regions, plus the three most liberal areas. At the end of the day, I don't associate MD with the north at all if you hang around the eastern shore or stay south of Annapolis. It feels heavily southern in those areas. Meanwhile, you have sprawling cities, urbanity, and factories in the central and western areas. They make it feel northern. So yeah, it's just Maryland. I just revolve it around it being the Chesapeake Bay area: MD, Delaware, PA, and to an extent Virginia.

West Virginia, IMO, is definitely the western edge of the Northeast. It's not really Southern in culture of location. To me, it's simply a lot more rural than a few other Northeastern states. It's really kind of unique. I mean, parts of it are further north than parts of Ohio and PA. I think why it's hard to put Maryland and WV in a group simply because they are transition stats.

BTW, the Dakotas are definitely in the Midwestern Sub-region of the Great Plains, and Texas in geographically and culture seems to be split between South and Southwest with a big difference between lets say El Paso and Dallas. It definitely has a unique twist to it's Southwest and Southern culture, though.

West Virginia, IMO, is definitely the western edge of the Northeast. It's not really Southern in culture of location. To me, it's simply a lot more rural than a few other Northeastern states. It's really kind of unique. I mean, parts of it are further north than parts of Ohio and PA. I think why it's hard to put Maryland and WV in a group simply because they are transition stats.

BTW, the Dakotas are definitely in the Midwestern Sub-region of the Great Plains, and Texas in geographically and culture seems to be split between South and Southwest with a big difference between lets say El Paso and Dallas. It definitely has a unique twist to it's Southwest and Southern culture, though.

I wouldn't consider WV northeastern. It has many more characteristics consistent with Western PA, OH, and KY making it sort of an Ohio Valley/Old rust belt Midwest area. Listening to people from parts of WV speak they seem to have southern accents, probably dating back to when the area was settled by Virginians. As far as parts of WV being farther north than parts of PA and OH, so what? Parts of NJ are farther south than parts of VA.

It seems that transitional areas can be defined in their own terms if you really need to categorize them: Chesapeake, Rust Belt, etc.

If I had to choose:

Maryland and Delaware and throw in DC: Northeast. Much more in common with places like PA and NY than GA and NC

Texas: more Southern than Western. I base this on the fact that East Texas is far more southern and contains the vast majority of the population.

Dakotas: Midwest

West Virginia: The hardest state in the union to classify but I have to go with southern, because the feel of the state most coincides, IMO, with western VA, NC and eastern TN.

Kentucky, now it is southern, once was Midwest, why it was Midwestern??

Florida, another state. I know it is in the SE(its even the most SE state), but why it isnt included in the SE forum? Does it not fit?

State of Neveda.. Its not west coast, nor its SW. Its the interior west, IMO.

Oklanhoma- fits more like a midwestern state, rathert than an interior west or the south.

Colorado- yes its the interior west, why was it part of the Midwest forum? What makes it midwestern?

The Baltimore and DC Metro areas dominate most peoples thoughts about the State of Maryland. These are the most dense and heavily populated areas and are essentially the reason Maryland is a blue state. The DC/Baltimore corridor is so dense that its often treated as one large city. Go the eastern shore/DELMARVA, southern Maryland and Western Maryland areas, however, and life is totally different. But even in the state of New York or Pennsylvania, you find farms, rolling hills and NASCAR fans once you leave the major metro areas.

I think its location within the BoWash corridor also make Maryland apart of the northeast. In south, very few large cities are close to each other. Think about how far one has to drive from Atlanta to get to a major city. In Maryland, you're obviously close to the Baltimore/Washington area, but you're also only 90 mins from Philly, 2.5 hours from New York and 8-9 hours from Boston.

The state as a whole has lots and lots of transients. For some odd reason, if you meet someone who lives in Baltimore and isnt originally from Baltimore, they're from New York City or New Jersey.

Kentucky, now it is southern, once was Midwest, why it was Midwestern??

Florida, another state. I know it is in the SE(its even the most SE state), but why it isnt included in the SE forum? Does it not fit?

State of Neveda.. Its not west coast, nor its SW. Its the interior west, IMO.

Oklanhoma- fits more like a midwestern state, rathert than an interior west or the south.

Colorado- yes its the interior west, why was it part of the Midwest forum? What makes it midwestern?

Florida is hard to qualify. The people north of Orlando pretty much consider Florida to be part of the South while those who live south of Orlando pretty much consider Florida to be anything other than the South.

This is how I learned it, and how I believe they should be divided:

Northeast
New England: Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Vermont
Middle Atlantic: Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Washington D.C.

South
Southeast: Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia
Southwest: Arizona, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Texas

Midwest
Great Lakes: Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin
Great Plains: Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota

West
Mountain: Colorado, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, Utah, Wyoming
Pacific: Alaska, California, Hawaii, Oregon, Washington

Texas is just a mix of everything.

The term southwest is slowly being replaced by South Central which includes Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana and Arkansas. IMO that is a much better way of putting it then the southwest that MattSal posted.

However Matt, we've all heard that lineup before except I dont think people ever classified Arizona and New Mexico as southern states. But they did for Texas and Oklahoma(sometimes).

Well, parts of West Texas are indeed Southwestern in feel, in both culture and geography. For instance, once you get a bit past OKC going west the landscape changes before you reach Texas. On the same token, parts of east and southeast Texas have a totally different and more tropical feel than the west side.

This is how I learned it, and how I believe they should be divided:

Northeast
New England: Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Vermont
Middle Atlantic: Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Washington D.C.

South
Southeast: Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia
Southwest: Arizona, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Texas

Midwest
Great Lakes: Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin
Great Plains: Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota

West
Mountain: Colorado, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, Utah, Wyoming
Pacific: Alaska, California, Hawaii, Oregon, Washington


This is really good. The only thing that I don't agree with is Arizona and New Mexico. While they are southwest, they definitely should be considered under the West umbrella and not the South.

I don't understand why Mid-Atlantic only includes Northeast states. There is the rest of the eastern seaboard, I feel like Mid-Atlantic includes the DC metro area, including northern Va.

Even on a map, the middle of the atlantic seaboard is va, there are many companies and organizations that include va that are called "mid-atlantic ..." it's more mid-atlantic than new york, IMO, which I really think doesn't belong there, obviously va belongs in the larger category of the south, but i think the mid atlantic subcategory straddles the northern parts of the south and the southern parts of the north.

I agree with Darrell.

This is how I see it:

http://www.solisearch.net/ims/pic.php?u=9443GmN7X&i=54591 (http://www.solisearch.net/ims/pic.php?u=9443GmN7X&i=54591)

I agree with that too.

Lets see... how about none? Each state has something that is worth seeing. Just because people dont take the time to look doesnt mean it doesn't "fit in"

Damn! I just typed in "US regions" on Google Images, and look at how many different ones I found . . . (I stick with mine though)

http://www.usla.org/images/map.gif
http://www.faa.gov/aua/oasis/images/US%20Regions%20combined%20NEWhs.gif
http://www.ncsli.org/regions/images/us_map.gif
http://www.seakayakermag.com/community/images/us_regions.jpg
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/lpa/issues/bse/surveillance/4bse03f.jpg
http://www.aptac-us.org/images/US_Regions.gif
http://www.notaryexpress.com/images/us-regions_small.gif
http://208.63.63.72/Images/USregions_map.gif
http://www.nadca.com/images/regions/us_regions.gif
http://www.lta.org/images/map-us.jpg

This one is the closest to mine:
http://www.ddc2000.com/products/samples/ss2kwebdemo/grade5/support/data/unit53/01images/53i10146.jpg

Well, parts of West Texas are indeed Southwestern in feel, in both culture and geography. For instance, once you get a bit past OKC going west the landscape changes before you reach Texas. On the same token, parts of east and southeast Texas have a totally different and more tropical feel than the west side.

agreed.

Texas, Texas, Texas...

The North Eastern part is like Arkansas, the furthest south and eastern part is like Louisiana. North of Houston to south of Dallas is like Georgia, and Dallas is like OKC. Houston, well it depends on the season. In Summer, its like a Humid-Subtropical Rain Forest. In Spring, its like Los Angeles... (perfect). From Corpus to South Padre, its almost like Florida. El Paso (West, West, Texas) is like Mexico. Austin is like Georgia. San Antonio is like Los Angeles, with out trees, hot and dry. Del Rio, Big Bend, is almost like a moutainous area, without the moutains. Its rocky, and the Rio Grande is in a like "Canyon".

Texas just varies so much, its crazy.

Austin is like Georgia.

Odd comparison. but i do agree with alot you just said.

Texas is neither southern nor western. Texas is Texas.
that's a famous quote from somebody but i forgot.

Texas, Texas, Texas...

The North Eastern part is like Arkansas, the furthest south and eastern part is like Louisiana. North of Houston to south of Dallas is like Georgia, and Dallas is like OKC. Houston, well it depends on the season. In Summer, its like a Humid-Subtropical Rain Forest. In Spring, its like Los Angeles... (perfect). From Corpus to South Padre, its almost like Florida. El Paso (West, West, Texas) is like Mexico. Austin is like Georgia. San Antonio is like Los Angeles, with out trees, hot and dry. Del Rio, Big Bend, is almost like a moutainous area, without the moutains. Its rocky, and the Rio Grande is in a like "Canyon".

Texas just varies so much, its crazy.

I agree, thats like putting Alaska in the middle of the US(its going to touch the Pacfic, Great Lakes, and the Atlantic), its going to be so much varaity. Some big states, have to be seprate in half to fit into regions.

http://www.gemsvt.org/middle/grade8/socialstudies/modules/usregionmap.gif I like this one the most.

an interesting topic that turned into an interesting thread.

there is probably one question that needs to be asked that would go furtherest in determining much of the how-states-fit issue:

does slavery still matter in 2005?

How much are we still tied to the concept of free state/slave state as we divide our nation into sections? Is it still relevant?

Among slave states, Missouri tends to make it into the midwest more than Kentucky does. Perhaps this is because MO stretches into the north more than KY does and that the Missouri Compromise knocked the future free/slave bourndary to the south.

Maryland, Delaware, and DC make it into the Mid Atlantic region, but there still is a tendency to see the old mason dixon line between PA and MD as being a cultural divide. Even at the end of WWII, DC was seen as a southern city.

********

another question here is: how willing are we to divide states so they fall in more than one region (as it appeared on one map here)?

California is nation size. Dividing into north and south certainly creates a southern California more akin to Arizona and a northern California more like Oregon and Washington. South Florida may be more like Hawaii than any other place in the nation: a place that doesn't fit into any region. The southern portions of Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio share much in common with the southern culture across the Ohio River.

I tend to agree with the frequent West, South, Northease, and Midwest divisions, with further subdivisions of Southwest, Mountain, Southcentral, Southeast, Midatlantic, New England, Upper Midwest and Great Plains. Texas and California are so big that they can't be completely in one section though. I think the oddities are Florida, which is not very southern in the Orlando-Tampa-Miami axis, and the fringe around the Midwest (Northern KY, Western NY), and it gets iffy around DC. I think Northern Virginia, Maryland and DC are mostly Mid-Atlantic, and West Virginia is SE.

That's weird that Arizona and New Mexico are listed as being in the South earlier in this post.

http://www.ddc2000.com/products/samples/ss2kwebdemo/grade5/support/data/unit53/01images/53i10146.jpg

this map that mattsal posted is closest to what i learned in grade school. a couple things i learned differently were that new england was it's own region, and new york, pennsylvania, and new jersey were the mid-atlantic region. additionally, maryland, delaware, and dc are also the mid-atlantic region, rather than the south like this map shows. everything else is just like i learned.

A note to add is that Midwesterners divded themselves into sub categories, as well. For instance, there are the Great Lakes States which are Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, and Minneasota, and then the Great Plains.

What makes this so hard is that state boundaries weren't always drawn according to culture and such. Actually, most weren't drawn that way. For instance, there is a noticeable difference between the people of Northern Illinois, and the people from southern Illinois. Southern Illinois is not Great Lakes. And the same can be said of northern and southern Indiana and Ohio, but to a lesser degree.

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/4302/regions6xp.jpg

This is how I see it:

http://www.solisearch.net/ims/pic.php?u=9443GmN7X&i=54591 (http://www.solisearch.net/ims/pic.php?u=9443GmN7X&i=54591)

That's how it is.

No matter how you split the country and its regions up, someone's going to be unhappy.

I learned that pretty quick in the Midwest forum.

That's how it is.

Agreed

No matter how you split the country and its regions up, someone's going to be unhappy.

I learned that pretty quick in the Midwest forum.

Exactly. And like I said, most states weren't drawn up according to culture meaning you have parts of northern states that feel southern, and such.