Hi you guys, I was reading this article a few days ago and I came across a few things that really made me wonder. It was talking about the rankings on american cities in style, looks, and something else I cant quite remember. And guess what? Philadelphia ranked last in every one of those categories. I guess my question is, how do they come to an conclusion like this? This also made me come to the conclusion that this is the reason for the inferiority complex. The constant comparing or "put down" for stupid things such as this. Please do tell me if Im looking into this a little too much.....I dont know. :)

Did you see it in the local newspaper or just some obscure website with no credibility? Either way, I wouldn't worry about it. Those silly rankings don't do anything. All they do is express a view, which everyone has, they don't solve any crises. If it was just a random list not really explaining how the numbers were derived, it's just a load of crap. There's no reason a ranking shouldn't have at least an explanation, especially if you have to ask yourself how they came about. Philly has something going for it; rankings are just another vicious way people like to trash other cities.

I bet the top ranks where lists of southern (I was a Yankee) cities...and pretty much every aspect of the cities are either A- fake or B- northern anyways.

I'm a little buzzed, but to say Philly has no style, or look...compared to what? Mobile Ala-fuckin-bama? lol, whatever.

This is the opinion of people who have never spent any time in Philly. The sad fact is that most of the great unwashed, consider Philly to be little more than a big version of Pittsburgh, or Baltimore, gritty and unsophisticated. (Most of these folks have never been to Pittsburgh or Baltimore either, and have outdated perceptions of those cities as well). Since Philly is not considered one of the "hip" cities, (such as Boston, SF, NY LA or Chicago) and is not one of the booming Sunbelt cities, most consider it to be strictly minor league. Hip sitcoms have used the likes of Seattle and Boston as backdrops. Has any television show been located in Philly? I know Philly loves the "Rocky" image, but other than Ben Franklin, Rocky is indeed the image most Americans have of Philly. Add in the bad behavior of Philly sports fans, and viola, there you have it. I can't think of anything in the public eye that is working to offset this image, can you?

The only show I know that has located in philly is strong Medicine but I do see where you are coming from and its really unfortunate.

I am not sure how TV and movie sets have to do with the hip' side of the city, but the fact of the matter is Philadelphia is no New York or Chicago....I do think though Philadelphia has a hell of a lot more character than LA having lived in both cities...and in my opinion Boston is a more unlikable city than Philly, the people in Boston, the traffic, the fake colonial crap everywhere, it is a bit much....thinking about US cities with their own character, Philadelphia comes to mind almost immediately after New York City, and that is not a surprise since both cities were among the first settled in the US and major players in the growth of the nation

Philly is awesome. The Real World on MTV just got done with their show in Philly and it really made the city look good.

They just don't know. I'd love to see where they get their o so scientific data from. You know what style Philly's got? Go to South St. I'll take that style over anything they'd call "style" any day.

Rugged is dead on. For some reason, I think Philly should be bigger. I don't know why I feel that way, I just do. Philly should have the skyline of Seattle, or Houston and Dallas combined.

With the rich history and population...

I've always thought this.

Comcast Center - Philadelphia 298 meters
Liberty One - Philadelphia 288 meters
Bank of America Tower - Seattle 284 meters
Bank of America Plaza - Dallas 280 meters
Two Liberty Place - Philadelphia 258 meters
Mellon Bank Center - Philadelphia 242 meters
Two Union Square - Seattle 226 meters
Bank One - Dallas 240 meters
WAMU - Seattle 235 meters
Verizon Tower - Philadelphia 226 meters

TOP 10
Philadelphia 5
Seattle 3
Dallas 2

So Philly does have a big skyline -- you have to remember, what is around Seattle? The closest million plus city is San Francisco, Seattle is THE major player in the Pacific Northwest

Dallas and Houston surged forward in the 80's and 90's when most East Coast buisnesses moved west...there is now a second shift back east ... so Philadelphia does have a skyline that IMHO is right on par...I mean, if you put Seattle 90 miles south of New York City, would it look how it does? Would any city...I think Philly haws done well having to compete with New York, Washington/Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Boston all within a 6 hour drive

Comcast Center - Philadelphia 298 meters
Liberty One - Philadelphia 288 meters
Bank of America Tower - Seattle 284 meters
Bank of America Plaza - Dallas 280 meters
Two Liberty Place - Philadelphia 258 meters
Mellon Bank Center - Philadelphia 242 meters
Two Union Square - Seattle 226 meters
Bank One - Dallas 240 meters
WAMU - Seattle 235 meters
Verizon Tower - Philadelphia 226 meters


Whats with all this meters crap :jk:

Its not our fault New York took our glory : realizes the complex: lol

Oh yeah, Philly has a great skyline. But the Seattle skyline rivals Chicago and LA's. Philly's is on par with Boston, Bmore, and Jersey City.

Jersey City is across the water from NY, and they have a nice skyline with a fraction of the population of those other cities. Just look at how many towers are in Seattle. Start with 300 - 800 feet. You could put the Philly skyline in Seattle and Chicago, and it wouldn't look like it added anything to it.

I don't know...maybe I expect too much.

^^ LOL ;-)

Definitely realizes the inferiority complex....just trying to show why one exists not to rationalize it....it is not an inferiority as much so a victim of circumstances....the same way when you say Vegas you thinking gambling and sex and all that fun stuff...

Ummm... Yeah, Molo... I'm not sure you actually know what teh Philly skyline looks like... Our skyline is much taller and bigger than Seattle's. Really, it is.

I live in northern filthadelphia... talk about issues... Philadelphian have a pitty party for themselves all the freaking time... not to mention the "racial" issues... The mayor sucks and is a racist... and the bueracracy... ugh... the city would be amazing if the people gave two shits, the mayor was impeached, and all of the bueracracy (I am amazed at how many city employees i see on a dialy basis just driving around, police, parking authority, philidelphia power and water, etc.) was erradicated... but it seems that the citizenry of Philadelphia are more concerned about raiding the public treasury than making the city competative... Philly has a lot of good characteristics too... i'm just pointing out what i see as the problem.

^^ Why do you live in North Philly? That side of town is rediculously dirty. The people, everything....

^^ Why do you live in North Philly? That side of town is rediculously dirty. The people, everything....

Hey!!! Be careful what you say. Not everybody in North Phiily is dirty. I've seen similar dirt in South Philly (I mean the Italian Market, and the Passyunk areas) and in West Philly around Lancaster Ave. I know you have your opinion, but if North Philly was able to develop the Temple University area, Strawberry Mansion, and Brewerytown, it would be similar to University City in West Philly. Don't say everything because I know a lot of people in Olney and Logan ( considered North Philly ) and they're just as hardworking and caring about their city just like the people of South Philly!
:applause: :speech: :nono:

some of the inferiority complex in Philly must be left over from the days when W.C. Fields made quips about the city.

Truth is, an inferiority complex for Philadelphia is hardly warranted. And if there are those who don't appreciate Philadelphia or put it down, it may be that we live in a more plastic, artiifical times. Philadelphia is a real city, by any definiton, and there are enough people today who do not appreciate real, who think Vegas or Orlando are more what a city should be than Philadelphia. Pity.

an additional note: IMHO no two cities preceive themselves and are preceived by a number of other people as being in the shaddow of NYC: Philadelphia and Boston. That's a shame. These are two major, major cities, and stand on their own, no matter how close they are to Times Square.

I live in North Philly because I attend school here and cannot afford anything else.

Indeed, Sweetkisses. Deriding not just an area but the people that live in it is pretty low.

I have family and friends that reside in various North Philly neighborhoods and I've spent plenty of time there myself (I live in West Philly). Folks there are as proud as anyone anywhere else - they've just got a lot less to work with than people in other parts of the city and metro area for a variety of reasons.

Youre right I shouldnt generalize. Im sorry if I offended anyone that was incredibly stupid of me. Not all North philly people are dirty, and some are very hardworking. But the way it looks it just doesnt reflect the hardworking citizens. Well some parts anyway..

And Philly is what it is...rugged.

And IMHO, with how old the city is compared to others, and history, CC should be larger. More national HQ's should be here. Philly should have a pop of 3 or 4 mill. And again people, this is only my opinion. (and most in the area.)

^^ Yea but thats not the city of Philadelphias fault. Most HQs want to move to New York City. Its the bigger ,greater city...
I agree Philly should have a lot more companies.

Oh yeah, Philly has a great skyline. But the Seattle skyline rivals Chicago and LA's. Philly's is on par with Boston, Bmore, and Jersey City.



Um, Chicago's skyline is more massive than LA's and Seattle's combined and quite easily at that. Seattle's skyline is nowhere near rivaling Chicago. Neither is LA's for that matter. Get real. :lol:

I think Philadelphia suffers a bit from being so close to DC and New York. It does seem like, for a city its size, Philly doesn't get the proper respect.

I think Philadelphia suffers a bit from being so close to DC and New York. It does seem like, for a city its size, Philly doesn't get the proper respect.
Also it is percieved as more staid and quiet, a historical town, than other areas such as NYC. But for those who do know about its excellent nightlife scene, it is a well-kept secret.

No Inferiority Complex Here!!!!

New to Philadelphia only 2 years but I don't see it! I have meet alot of
friends in the city and I don't hear or witness an inferiority complex from
center city people. I love the city. It has the culture, clubs, great art without the hassle of New York City.

It seems to me that the people who complain about Philadelphia are those
Philadelphians themselves who have never lived or moved anywhere else. It
is strange...they apologize for their city.

It reminds me of my last girlfriend, very attractive but she looked in the mirror and could only see the flaws and she told you about the flaws before you noticed them. For me that is the best way to describe native Philadelphians.

They have no idea how lucky they are and how beautiful their city is!

I can sit in Rittenhouse Square and feel I am in New York, shop at Zara or
Urban Outfitters, eat in incredible restaurants (well only when my parents
visit) then explore the colonial streets and feel it is 1776 and then walk 5 blocks and be on crazy and funky south street and walk 5 more blocks more and be in the middle of the Italian Market with a street scene that hasn't changed in 100 years.

Philadelphians talk about Move, Rizzo, Coruption, Street as the Worst mayor but to me it is a testiment to what a great city Philly is that it can withstand all of that and still be this incredible place.

I can't speak to the old Philadelphia but I can tell you that there is an excitement
to this place and a vibrancy that I love.

^ Well said, a proud Philadelphian. :)

^^ Yea but thats not the city of Philadelphias fault. Most HQs want to move to New York City. Its the bigger ,greater city...
I agree Philly should have a lot more companies.

Sweetkisses, as you know, I've always appreciated all the wonderful things you've had to say about my city, Chicago.

I think there is one significant difference between Chicago and Philadelphia. I think it would also be true of Chicago and Boston. Quite simply, Chicago does not view itself in New York's shaddow, does not see itself as less than New York, does not operate in awe of New York. Now, please make sure you understand what I am saying here: I'm not talking about how people outside Chicago see Chicago; I'm talking about how Chicagoans see Chicago.

Plenty of outsiders will say that Boston, Philly, and Chicago (as well as all US cities) are in the shaddow of New York. I'm saying Chicagoans say "BUNK" to that. Chicagoans are supremely confident by the strength of our city and don't feel a need to think any place can surpass us. Chicagoans, sometimes in an obnoxiously boastful way, see Chicago as the ultimate city.

I realize that Chicago is in the midwest and Philly and Boston are in NYC's back yard, but mind sets are mind sets. Here's my point: cities like Philadelphia and Boston are so major, so important, so delightfully urban, so historic, so part of the fabric of our country that they both fully warrant a confidence that should be unaffected by the nearness of Manhattan. There is nothing about NYC that should take any of the bloom off cities of the quality of Philly and Boston.

^^ True. Very well put edsg :D

I like you, skys the limit. :)

New York is what it is because its able to siphon from talent(companies, industry, celebs, news personalties, grads) from a 500 mile radius...that said it also benefits from proximity to well established cultural powerhouses (Philadelphia,Boston,Balt,D.C).


Chicago can do the same but to a lesser extent

If Chicago was 90 miles from N.Y. It would be Philly

Chicago got lucky because of a canal ....look it up.

On the other hand Philly deserves the bad rap. White Flight hit here worse than any other major city.

So white folks run scared take there wallets with em...A.K.A Tax Dollars
theyre businesses too
Schools turn to crap
City Services move to the suburbs too
Mean Income Drops Crime Rises.

and now we're left with the mindset (ty Sweetkisses) that every one in North Philly is Dirty.

I don't know about Y'all but if my hair is dirty I dont feel good if my hands are dirty I don' feel good.

How can I feel good about Philly if i believe North Philly is filled with dirty people?

Ever wonder why the population dropped after the 1950 census?

Ever wonder why Chestnut Hill is still thriving?

Ever why all the people that work for or call the local sports station is from South Jersey.

Untill we can bear living next to someone of a different color we'll always have an inferiority complex.

Ah, what fun would we have if we couldn't beat up on white flight ?

Poetic, nonetheless, your post.

Actually its water under the bridge. and it's gettin better slowly but surely.

A major influx of minorities probably wuddnt scare so many ppl off now as it once did then.

I mean at the time u had the civil rights movement which caused tensions and probaply scared some folk

But you cant ignore the impact it had. if we do we're being ignorant

^ Of course there were some scared folks. I just like a little nuance with my coffee.

By the way, I've spent more time in Philly than in any non-Floridian city. I love the place (although I never understood the fuss about Tastycakes).

Tss.... Don't go dissin' Tastykakes... Those things are delicious...

Uh.. Disneymustdie, I already apologized for my mistakes. Im not apologizing twice. The truth is the truth. Where you live represents you and I hate to bust your bubble but North philly is no San Francisco.
Oh and if youre talking about color, Im black sweetie.

Since you brought up San Fran



The Examiner

Our stake in public education
By Patrick Mattimore
Published: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 11:06 PM PDT


Lack of educational funding for teachers' salaries has created a ripple effect of declining quality in San Francisco public schools. One measurable result has been "white flight": Wealthy, and even middle class, predominantly white families, have increasingly sent their children to private schools or left the state altogether. Despite the fact that the overall population of California grew by over 10 percent between 1990 and 2000, the white population decreased by over a million. In 1980, whites accounted for two-thirds of the state's population; today they make up about 46 percent.

Moreover, in 1987-88, the first year such records were kept, 50 percent of public school students in California were Caucasian. Today, whites make up about one-third of the overall public school population, and in San Francisco that figure is below 10 percent.

The phenomenon of white flight has very real consequences. Parents who privatize their children's education have less incentive to support public schools. Unless those parents can be persuaded to return to public schools en masse, parcel taxes stand little chance of receiving voter approval.

How then to entice private school parents to send their children to public schools? Well, most obviously, provide those parents a better product. But that will take time. In the meantime, we should extend our notions of public education by insisting that our University of California system accept only students from public high schools or recent immigrants. Those restrictions could be extended to apply to our public graduate schools as well, so that only applicants from public universities would be considered at UCSF Medical School or Boalt Law School at UC Berkeley.

By denying the benefits of our world-class university system to parents that opt out of their responsibilities to our K-12 public schools, we can take a giant step towards reinvigorating those schools by providing the impetus for private school parents to return.
end...

I didnt ask for an apology but the fact that a grown woman would(Im assuming you're grown)say something like that is frightening.
The fact that you're Black makes it doubly frightening.

North Philadelphia is nearly 100% minority.

My last visit to my cousin who lives in North Philadelphia

I saw Girls playing double-dutch. 3 kids racing on big-wheels!!! Kids AND

Adults seeking refuge from the heat in a water plug. Old folks on porches

yelling at kids not to run in and out the house.(what difference did that make I still dont get it did some thing happen to you if u ran in and out over 10 times straight...crazy superstition).

Kids had each put one foot in a huddle gettin ready for hide in go seek. I can go on for days

I thought all that stuff was dead. Im from germantown ..after high school'93

I left town came back for good in 1999. Its gone in germantown for the most

part and most of Philly and it's nowhere else in the country. to me thats
where our civic pride comes from.

Inner city residents are slowly watchin our way of life/culture die in front of they're eyes

and from my time spent in the burbs(Hatfield) ...they miss out altogether.

Back to u SweetKisses

Listen i was trying to get at one of the roots of the problem I love all my White and Black brothers and sisters'

its un fortunate but as soon as most Black folks make over $35,000 a year they join they're white and Asian counterparts in the Burbs.

I guess they all meet up at that cultural hotbed Wal-Mart.

or those various bustling communities strip-malls.

and I dont care how pristine San Fran is.

can I play a pick-up game of football there in the middle of the street

Keep ur high falutin San Fran . gimmie Philly any day.

and we can take any of those other cities in a fair fight too...ha ha

Everybody here can box. Hey theres a reason GO Bernard Hopkins!!

The school system will not improve until the middle class moves back into the city... Currently those in the middle class who have kids will not move into the city because of the failing schools... If you want to attract these people to the city, you must give them another option (vouchers?)... I would argure this is the number one reason the city has lost so many people to the burbs... You will notice that singles and couples in the middle class don't mind living in Philly, but once they have kids, they want the burbs... it is secure, sheltered, stable, and they have good schools.

Agreed Jackooboy, Thats my point we need the middle class, when I think about it more. the more I think its a catch-22, we need the tax base of the middle class, for city services such as quality teachers, safe schools. Yet the school system in your viewpoint is what keeps young middle-class.....

Im not sure if this will happen in light of the San Fran Article I posted.
But if all these young and wealthy people move to these condos that are poppin up like weeds. There would have to be a trickle down effect right?

Even if these yuppie types go for private schools for theyre kids. Philly as a whole wud benefit from them just living here.

Thats why Im agree with the "Build it and they will come" Philosophy.

I know at least 75 ppl that moved to Atlanta because only of what they heard word of mouth. Even without a job lined up.

I think all ppl have to do is "think" that Philly is happening and they come swarming.

Businesses start following suit

All of a sudden Cheltenham and Upper Darby wants to be annexed

Downtown grows north to Lehigh south to Snyder

west to 40th

then the Sixers win a Championship year 2075

bingo complex is gone :nocrook:

gotta lil crazy huh?

You are correct Disney... Perception IS reality! But at the same time... I wonder the demographic Atlanta is attracting... I would be suprised to see families with children moving there... I would bet they are yuppies and/or singles w/out children.

The other thing is that Philly would need to start cleaning up its neighborhoods... literally and figuratively...

One last note... now you are getting into the "evil" of gentrification... I'm all for it though... there is a trickle down effect and I think we've already seen it begin in Philly...

Now to get rid of our mayor!!! :cheers:

Disney, I must disagree.

As kids growing up poor, you have no choice in where you live. Most likely, you live where your parents can afford.

However, when you grow up, start a family, make more, learn from the past, why would you stay in the area if you can do better. More than not, the crime is high, schools bad, area overrun by drugs and dealers where we grew up.

Quality of life is reality of life. There's reason you don't find rappers in the hood without paying them, or bodyguards. And they talk more madeup, in the hood, kill you quick, shiznit than everyone.

As adults, we're more aware of our surroundings. With that comes the choices not to surround yourself and family with less than desirable people, places and things.

Molo, Wheres the dissagreement? Im trying to figure out what yor diisagreing with and Im lost . Can someone here fill me in.

Reply Quote wudda been helpful but i agree with everything you said.

Im not gonna stay in an area that my life is in danger or my kids cant get a quality education.

Okay Im gonna assume it was the civic pride post

who are u defending white flight after desegregation

black folks who leave after 35K a year.

I dont blame any one who feels they can be more succesful elsewhere for leaving the city whether they be Whte Black Hispanic or Asian

I blamed white flight because it was unwarranted I fell they panicked

out of Ignorance

I mentioned blacks folks in particular for balance because I thought Jackoooby was painting me as someone overly race concious

White Flight has morphed into Rainbow flight

One thing I do take issue with you

is quality of life. We must create and maintain (fight for it) our quality not simply run for greener pastures. Once again its this loser mentality that "that;s just the way it is"

If we had civic pride we would act proactively against things that hurt us as a community

I think this inferiority complex gives us this apathy

Were always talkin about NIMBY's

Why cant we all be NIMBY's against drugs, NIMBY's against violence. stand up and keep whats ours that is if it important to you

We shouldnt be getting punk'd by Criminals and Dealers

I think that people feel they do not have choices in N. Philly... They live in an area that is impoverished, crime ridden, etc. and overall not a pleasant place to live. This is reflected in the N. Philly culture. There are plenty of fine people in N. Philly, so don't take it that I'm saying everyone in N. Philly is a bum or a criminal, but there must be a cultural shift away from the current culture of despair, "gangsta" glorification, and "pimping my hoes" that currently exists (of course there will be people that say "this is black identity," but I think that is because they are the same people who see blacks who move out of the ghetto as traders... there is a sense of power and community that comes with keeping the status quo... and they want to preserve it the way it is even if that means never progressing. It makes them feel like there is some validity and warrant for where N. Philly currently is; In all, they deny there is a problem.). This is a problem that has been with us since the creation of the ghetto (very dense pockets of impoverished poor people)... How do you reduce the ghetto if not eliminate it? This is a catch-22... the home life and the education system blame one another for not breaking the cycle, but I also see "pop culture" as contributing enormously to the woes of the N. Philly black community... If you honestly analyze it, blacks are overwhelmingly shown as being nothing more than gangsters on TV and in music videos etc. which influences young blacks (and whites for that matter, but we are focusing on N. Philly) to emulate their role models while reinforcing negative stereotypes among the mainstream established "white culture." Now in N. Philly where the family structure might not be the best and you aren't getting a lot of cultural and societal encouragement to become the next Nobel Peace Prize winner, to see Ludicrous being ludicrous and making money at it is a pretty entertaining proposition when you're a young person... I think the media needs to portray blacks as they do whites and Asians and other citizens... They need to show blacks as being the good guys... the scientists, the cops, the average Joe etc... Not the gangster, the guy going to jail, or the bum. This would help curb the perpetual stereotypes and degradation of the black community and be great for children to see and aspire to... Sorry, I'll get off my high horse, but this is again only one of the problems I see... and a little piece of the pie that will help fix it.

I think Philly's a great city with some astounding buildings, institutions and landmarks. But nature has dealt it an unfair shake, by placing it so close to NY, the biggest city and DC, the capital. I think that's maybe why Boston has gotten more acknowledgement (which is deserved) than Philly, because it's not sandwiched, and has New England as its own hinterland. We should be so lucky to have four such great cities so close to each other.

On the other hand Philly deserves the bad rap. White Flight hit here worse than any other major city.






You can't be serious. Philly definitely has problems with White Flight, but they pale next to the story of Detroit. (I'm talking major cities here, not the Gary's and Camden's) There are virtually no White folks left in Detroit. No other major city even comes close to this.

All of a sudden Cheltenham and Upper Darby wants to be annexed



I doubt that Cheltenham and Upper Darby want to be annexed in the near and far future.

Herodotus If it were just Detroit and Philly. We wuddnt have a complex. Matter of fact we'd wud have huge heads. No offense but Motown is not in Philly's league.
Maybe its me but I don't consider Detroit on same tier.


As for you wanderer34. Thats quite a serious reply to a "just kidding" post.
Thanks for your 2 cents tho.

^Ok... Ummm... (Cough!) No need to be nasty here.... Ofcourse Philly and Detroit are on different tiers. They are two cities thatn have experienced similar population loss problems, except that Detroit has experienced them much more dramatically and worse. Philly never reached Detroits level of abandonement and we will probably never reach that simply because we are reviving as I type.

Herodotus If it were just Detroit and Philly. We wuddnt have a complex. Matter of fact we'd wud have huge heads. No offense but Motown is not in Philly's league.
Maybe its me but I don't consider Detroit on same tier.





My post was not whether Detroit and Philly were on the same tier. (By the way, for most of the 20th Century, Philly and Detroit were the 4th and 5th largest cities in the country, so while they are very different in look and feel, populationwise Detroit and Philly are very comparable.

The point of my post is, that it's total nonsense to say Philly's White Flight problem is far worse than any other city's. That simply is not true. Detroit's White Flight dwarfs that of Philly, and so does the amount of White Flight in Baltimore, St. Louis, New Orleans and several other cities.

i think pittsburgh has a major black flight problem.

I understand ur point Herodotus yet none of the cities you mentioned compare with Philly

If u had said San Fran, Houston, then there would be a reason for me to retract my statement. Forgive me if Im wrong but this thread is about an inferiority complex.

Why bring up cities that we feel superior to.

So taken in context( the cities that give us the complex) I still believe Philly has more White Flight

If you Made up a thread called "Detroits inferiorty complex" then Id believe u have cities similar to and just above Detroit. not Philly


But you have strengthened my point that places that White Flight occured the most in the 50's 60's 70's
The worse off the Rust Belt city is today.

I understand ur point Herodotus yet none of the cities you mentioned compare with Philly

If u had said San Fran, Houston, then there wwould be a reason for me to retract my statement. Forgive me if Im wrong but this thread is about an inferiority complex.

Why bring up cities that we feel superior to.

So taken in context( the cities that give us the complex) I still believe Philly has more White Flight

If you Made up a thread called "Detroits inferiorty complex" then Id believe u have cities similar to and just above Detroit. not Philly


But you have strengthened my point that places that White Flight occured the most in the 50's 60's 70's
The worse off the Rust Belt city is today.


My response was strictly to this statement;
Originally Posted by Disneymustdie
On the other hand Philly deserves the bad rap. White Flight hit here worse than any other major city.

Had you said, "white flight hit here worse than the cities above us" I'd never have responded, but since you said "any other major city", Detroit, with a metro population of over 5 million certainly qualifies as a major city.

As a guy living in CC, Philly doesn't feel superior to any city.

If anything, on par with Jersey City, Boston, Bmore, DC. (financial, medical, schools, great history)

Less to Vegas, NY, LA, Miami. (all destination places)

Over Cleveland, Charlotte, Buffalo, Indy, Pittsburgh, etc. (not as much history, money,schools, or surrounding areas)

That's why the complex is there in the first place. Everyone in the world knows LA, NY and Vegas. Philly is an American icon.

How did I know people in Philly would be using Detroit to make themselves feel better?

I don't see Philly feeling inferior to the cities of Las Vegas or Miami. I don't see that at all.

The cities that Philadelphia should legitimately have an inferiority complex with is, New York City and Chicago. All three were made out of the same mold but NYC and Chicago have done it much better than Philly.

The rest of the country when comparing Philadelphia you are mixing apples with oranges. Vegas, Miami,LA, Houston are not true urban cities, much much more suburbanized. A mutt doesn't feel inferior to a persian cat right? You can only compare Philly to NYC-Chi and Detroit

SF and Boston are urban but mini-me sized by design and geographical location to weed out poverty. Again not a fair comparison to Philadelphia.

The 4 truly urbanized cities in America in order are NYC-Chi-Philly-sorry daytwahs Detroit.

Have done what much better than Philly? Build tall buildings? Attract new companies and new growth? What caused Philly to become this way?The problem is that Philly and New York are too close together.But that wont change anything so what I'm saying is, will gentrifying the neighborhoods bring more business or is Philly destined to be second-rate. What else do you think causes this complex?

sweet kisses - what was your purpose in opening this thread? is it your pro-NY stance? you take alot of shots at philly. You should just move to smelly NY were garbage in manhattan is laid out on the street for all to smell the rancid aroma.

^ What are you talking about? I'm pro philly,and I'm also pro New york because thats where I'm from. I'm just trying to figure out the problem. Part of solving the problem is recognizing it.Whats up with your attitude?

There is no denying there are a lot of opportunities for this city in the horizon to better itself. Yet, outsiders like to think there is an inferiority complex! This is definitely not even a valid question to ask. Maybe 15-20 years ago there was a chip on our shoulder, but Philly is beyond that point, I strongly believe Philadelphians have a lot of civic pride in this great city.

I think its fair question for you to ask, how Philly can improve itself, but for an outsider to have the audacity to open a thread about Philly's inferiority complex is asinine. Thats my beef sweetkisses with this thread. If you rephrased it, I would have no issue.

What makes you think im an outsider? I'm just as much a Philadelphian as you are. You are taking this way out of proportion. It isnt that serious.

So just for you... What can Philly do to improve itself? Happy?

While it may be true that Philly is now in NYC's shadow, that was not always the case.

When the Constitution was ratified, NYC was the Nation's capital, but in 1791, the title shifted to Philadelphia for 10 years until moving inevitably to Washington.

Pennsylvania was the first established university in the United States, founded by Ben Franklin in 1740.

There's much more than that, but a series of events lead to the East Coast's focal point shifting north.

New York's natural harbor was a catalyst in the city's growth as an industrial player during the Industrial Revolution. While a major nautical port in its own right, Philadelphia's position on the banks of the Delaware can't match.

The establishment of Ellis Island as the main destination for immigrants made New York the starting point for hardworking people looking to start their dream in America.

In the 20th century, Philadelphia did itself in. In the 1960's, when tall, boxy skyscrapers were the vogue, the gentleman's agreement to keep the height of any building lower than that of the brim of William Penn's cap was a major turnoff to many corporations that could have established their headquarters in the city.

Around this time, I believe, is when the so-called "inferiority complex" was established. The pulse of the city was one of jealousy towards other cities such as New York, Boston, and - God forbid - Pittsburgh that were enjoying industrial and corporate success.

I side with many of you here, saying that this complex no longer exists -- to Philadelphians; there is much to be proud of, but to the rest of the nation and world, that complex is a permanent stigmatism. Their eye to the city is through cinema and sports, and what has that perspective offered them? An underdog from a depressed industrial city just happy to have gone the distance with the Champ, regardless that it was a loss; the NHL champion Flyers known as the Broadstreet Bullies intimidating and beating the crap out of their opponents; a hustler, literally and figueratively, in Pete Rose lifting the Phillies to their only championship in '80; a cold, concrete bowl showcasing those Phillies and the Eagles for 30 years; and as great as the 1983 Sixers were, they were overshadowed in the 80's by the Lakers and Celtics dynasties.

That stigma continues today: Eagles, three years as NFC runner-ups, now a Super Bowl loser, Smarty Jones choking in the final leg of the Triple Crown, the Sixers bowing out in 5 to the Lakers in 2001 Finals, the Flyers getting swept by the Red Wings in 1997. Don't start me on the Phillies ...

All that said, Philly is a world class town with a plethora of first-rate universities, hospitals, and now the businesses are realziing that now. Landing Comcast was huge, and stealing Lincoln Financial from Fort Wayne was more important than many realize. The list continues to grow ...

Summarizing this way-too-long post, the Philadelphia Inferiority Complex exists only in the minds of those who don't know the city, who frankly don't know any better. Philadelphians can look at the Cira Center and the Comcast Center, laugh at US Airways ditching Pittsburgh and not Philly for its hub, and relax with a cold Yuengling and know that the rest of the world doesn't know shit, and should feel inferior to Philadelphia -- not the other way around.

While it may be true that Philly is now in NYC's shadow, that was not always the case.

When the Constitution was ratified, NYC was the Nation's capital, but in 1791, the title shifted to Philadelphia for 10 years until moving inevitably to Washington.

Pennsylvania was the first established university in the United States, founded by Ben Franklin in 1740.

There's much more than that, but a series of events lead to the East Coast's focal point shifting north.

New York's natural harbor was a catalyst in the city's growth as an industrial player during the Industrial Revolution. While a major nautical port in its own right, Philadelphia's position on the banks of the Delaware can't match.

The establishment of Ellis Island as the main destination for immigrants made New York the starting point for hardworking people looking to start their dream in America.

In the 20th century, Philadelphia did itself in. In the 1960's, when tall, boxy skyscrapers were the vogue, the gentleman's agreement to keep the height of any building lower than that of the brim of William Penn's cap was a major turnoff to many corporations that could have established their headquarters in the city.

Around this time, I believe, is when the so-called "inferiority complex" was established. The pulse of the city was one of jealousy towards other cities such as New York, Boston, and - God forbid - Pittsburgh that were enjoying industrial and corporate success.

I side with many of you here, saying that this complex no longer exists -- to Philadelphians; there is much to be proud of, but to the rest of the nation and world, that complex is a permanent stigmatism. Their eye to the city is through cinema and sports, and what has that perspective offered them? An underdog from a depressed industrial city just happy to have gone the distance with the Champ, regardless that it was a loss; the NHL champion Flyers known as the Broadstreet Bullies intimidating and beating the crap out of their opponents; a hustler, literally and figueratively, in Pete Rose lifting the Phillies to their only championship in '80; a cold, concrete bowl showcasing those Phillies and the Eagles for 30 years; and as great as the 1983 Sixers were, they were overshadowed in the 80's by the Lakers and Celtics dynasties.

That stigma continues today: Eagles, three years as NFC runner-ups, now a Super Bowl loser, Smarty Jones choking in the final leg of the Triple Crown, the Sixers bowing out in 5 to the Lakers in 2001 Finals, the Flyers getting swept by the Red Wings in 1997. Don't start me on the Phillies ...

All that said, Philly is a world class town with a plethora of first-rate universities, hospitals, and now the businesses are realziing that now. Landing Comcast was huge, and stealing Lincoln Financial from Fort Wayne was more important than many realize. The list continues to grow ...

Summarizing this way-too-long post, the Philadelphia Inferiority Complex exists only in the minds of those who don't know the city, who frankly don't know any better. Philadelphians can look at the Cira Center and the Comcast Center, laugh at US Airways ditching Pittsburgh and not Philly for its hub, and relax with a cold Yuengling and know that the rest of the world doesn't know shit, and should feel inferior to Philadelphia -- not the other way around.


Many good points here but lets not get carried away. Philadelphia is not the pristine world class city you make it out to be. Parts of the city are world class, but as much as it pains me to say other parts are closer to third world.

In general world class cities do not have this collage of a lineup as the grand gateway to their city. Sewage Teatment Plant, marshy bog, rusted out 1930ish architectually bankrupt bridges,strip clubs,oil refineries,junk yards,car smashing operation,ghettos. Thats a bad start to your average visitor or tourist.

Philadelphia for whatever reason sold its soul to Sunoco and a motley collection of poverty level businesses at the entrance of the city. That's a great way to acquire an inferiority complex.

You want to add in the implosion of Philadelphia's inner city and it more than offsets Soceity HIll,Independence Mall, downtown and Fairmount park. The city is basically split between world class and third world. Philadelphia remains one of the biggest underachievers in terms of cities in the whole world.

It was meant to be so much more.

Philly is by no means pristine, I totally agree with you. Nearly every city has parts where the shadows seem a little longer and has succombed to industry. For example, Chicago - my home now - was mentioned earlier in the thread as a world class city, but right now environmental agents are in the process of marking the hundreds of pipes that discharge millions of gallons of industrial and human waste into the Chicago River, and I personally work on the south side in an oil refinery. Is this bad? You bet. But it doesn't take away from the city being so great and aspiring for more.

Though I don't want to make comparisons between the two cities, one could make a point that Philly is following in the footsteps of Chicago - an urban renaissance. Chicago is still famous for Al Capone and a fire that was, by legend, started by a cow. Now, real estate is a hot commodity; dozens of high-rise condos are being built, highlited by the Trump Tower and Waterview, and the infamous Cabrini Green Housing Project is being gradually replaced by gorgeous three-flat walk-ups. This transformation has not happened overnight, nor will Philly's.

You allude to an excellent point that the construction of scrapers will detract from Philly's historical feel; this problem is one that faces any historical city that builds skyward -- see Berlin, Paris, Milan ... but also NYC and Boston. Philly needs to figure out what its identity is regarding urban development.

Philadelphia was meant to be more but there's no reason it can't still there.

Philly is by no means pristine, I totally agree with you. Nearly every city has parts where the shadows seem a little longer and has succombed to industry. For example, Chicago - my home now - was mentioned earlier in the thread as a world class city, but right now environmental agents are in the process of marking the hundreds of pipes that discharge millions of gallons of industrial and human waste into the Chicago River, and I personally work on the south side in an oil refinery. Is this bad? You bet. But it doesn't take away from the city being so great and aspiring for more.

Though I don't want to make comparisons between the two cities, one could make a point that Philly is following in the footsteps of Chicago - an urban renaissance. Chicago is still famous for Al Capone and a fire that was, by legend, started by a cow. Now, real estate is a hot commodity; dozens of high-rise condos are being built, highlited by the Trump Tower and Waterview, and the infamous Cabrini Green Housing Project is being gradually replaced by gorgeous three-flat walk-ups. This transformation has not happened overnight, nor will Philly's.

You allude to an excellent point that the construction of scrapers will detract from Philly's historical feel; this problem is one that faces any historical city that builds skyward -- see Berlin, Paris, Milan ... but also NYC and Boston. Philly needs to figure out what its identity is regarding urban development.

Philadelphia was meant to be more but there's no reason it can't still there.
I agree.

i think pittsburgh has a major black flight problem.

Every so often, I check this board and something gives me a chuckle! Very good phillyskyline. In fact, Pittsburgh has a major everybody flight problem!

There has been a lot of comparisons between Philly and Boston. Personally i think they are both great cities, very urban and historical.

Boston seems to come up in better shape on these discussions than Philly does. Part is due to Philly's location between NY and DC, as was mentioned on a number of posts.

I'm going to throw out another possible reason why Boston may do better than Philly. It is a strange one, perhaps the opposite of what people generally think. A real paradigm beaker.

In a more industrial era, Philly's large population made a lot of sense. Today may be different.

Is there a chance that Philly might have been better off with a more Boston-size population than the much larger population it has? How much of the success and image of cities like Boston and SF come from being relatively small cities that are the cores of larer metro areas?

Is there a chance that Philly is too big today for its own good? I don't have an answer, but I'm sure some Philadelphians do.

^^ No. I think 1.5 -3 million is reasonable amount of people.

Does anyone have any pictures of the area surrounding Temple University? I think Temple is in a place called Fishtown which is right on the border of North Philly? I'm asking about pics because I am interested in possibly going to Temple.

New York's natural harbor was a catalyst in the city's growth as an industrial player during the Industrial Revolution. While a major nautical port in its own right, Philadelphia's position on the banks of the Delaware can't match.

NY harbor would be hard to match by any other on the east coast. Sure, it made a big difference on the trade balance between NY and Phila., but I can think of what is probably a bigger one:

New York's ability to connect with the Great Lakes region.

New York was able to carve out a path from NY Harbor up the Hudson and through the Mohawk and the state-created Erie Canal to link up with the Great Lakes. Philly had no Mohawk valley to create a water route throuh the Appalachians. Boston was too far east for a link up.

Out of all the factors that led to NYC's east coast domnance, IMHO the Erie Canal is at the top of the list.

very true the canal is the reason New York and Chicago for that matter was able to prosper. New York is simply better situated geographically for commerce. I'd still rather live in a valley today.

And who cares anymore. Im happy for New York, I'm not competing with the city.

I dont think anything's happing any cooler there than here.

The vast majority of people struggle to make a living every day just like anywhere else.

Do they have free health care? Do women get equal pay? Is there no racism? Does Fiji water pump out of there sinks? Is there no unemployment? Is there no crime?

That would be cool

I mean. How are we measuring, Strictly by Skyscraper count?

very true the canal is the reason New York and Chicago for that matter was able to prosper. New York is simply better situated geographically for commerce. I'd still rather live in a valley today.

I

sometimes we forget how much the rise of NYC was an American, not a colonial phenomenium. During colonial times, Philly and Boston were more important cities than NYC.

And who cares anymore. Im happy for New York, I'm not competing with the city.


What a totally healthy, rational, and intelligent way of looking at things. Disney, you are right on. It hardly matters how close Philadelphia is from New York; your city holds up on its own far more than Philadelphians recognize.

We all know the bland, faceless US cities; Philly wold never be one of them. It is absurd for Philadelphia to see itself in a negative light.

Many good points here but lets not get carried away. Philadelphia is not the pristine world class city you make it out to be. Parts of the city are world class, but as much as it pains me to say other parts are closer to third world.

In general world class cities do not have this collage of a lineup as the grand gateway to their city. Sewage Teatment Plant, marshy bog, rusted out 1930ish architectually bankrupt bridges,strip clubs,oil refineries,junk yards,car smashing operation,ghettos. Thats a bad start to your average visitor or tourist.

Philadelphia for whatever reason sold its soul to Sunoco and a motley collection of poverty level businesses at the entrance of the city. That's a great way to acquire an inferiority complex.

You want to add in the implosion of Philadelphia's inner city and it more than offsets Soceity HIll,Independence Mall, downtown and Fairmount park. The city is basically split between world class and third world. Philadelphia remains one of the biggest underachievers in terms of cities in the whole world.

It was meant to be so much more.

Bro, are you talking about the gateway coming up north on I-95??? Have you ever tried heading east of I-76 from Valley Forge??? First, you have a brief view of Manayunk and the old PRR Bridge, giving you a clue that you're in Phila, then you go through Fairmount Park, meaning that you're in the city limits. The FIrst building that you'll see to your left is the world-reknowned Philadelphia Museum of Art and now to your right is our own diamond in the rough, the Cira Center. People driving from the west will take I-76, and even though a majority of tourists are coming from the airport, there are other cities which don't have as great of a gateway like we do like NYC, LA, Miami, Boston, and DC. Just don't underestimate us: we're the nation's best-kept secret when it comes to beauty.

Philly is by no means pristine, I totally agree with you. Nearly every city has parts where the shadows seem a little longer and has succombed to industry. For example, Chicago - my home now - was mentioned earlier in the thread as a world class city, but right now environmental agents are in the process of marking the hundreds of pipes that discharge millions of gallons of industrial and human waste into the Chicago River, and I personally work on the south side in an oil refinery. Is this bad? You bet. But it doesn't take away from the city being so great and aspiring for more.

Though I don't want to make comparisons between the two cities, one could make a point that Philly is following in the footsteps of Chicago - an urban renaissance. Chicago is still famous for Al Capone and a fire that was, by legend, started by a cow. Now, real estate is a hot commodity; dozens of high-rise condos are being built, highlited by the Trump Tower and Waterview, and the infamous Cabrini Green Housing Project is being gradually replaced by gorgeous three-flat walk-ups. This transformation has not happened overnight, nor will Philly's.

You allude to an excellent point that the construction of scrapers will detract from Philly's historical feel; this problem is one that faces any historical city that builds skyward -- see Berlin, Paris, Milan ... but also NYC and Boston. Philly needs to figure out what its identity is regarding urban development.

Philadelphia was meant to be more but there's no reason it can't still there.

I agree with your comments, especially about Philly's skyscraper and condo-boom. Hopefully the Comcast Center can reach the 1000-foot mark so we, NYC, and Chicago can be members of the 1000-foot club in America. I'm also hoping for another tall skyscaper being built on the Powelton Rail Yards. All they have to do is make a subterrain rail yard about 50 feet deep, then set a foundation for it, and we're on our own way towards making what could be the largest skyscraper in Phila!!! :cheers: I also think that both cities always had potential for two Downtowns, with Chicago having it's Loop and the Near North Side and Philadelphia having both Center and University Cities. Right now, we're about to have our 2nd downtown with the start of the Cira Center. The only thing that's keeping Phila from being a world-class city is the fact that we don't have an extensive subway and commuter rail system and we used to have an intercity rail system until SEPTA shut service and continues to run a half-ass service just to it's suburbs. I've seen and riden your system and it's indeed world class. I wished SEPTA had a real good subway system as well as a commuter rail system to complement it.

The only thing that's keeping Phila from being a world-class city is the fact that we don't have an extensive subway and commuter rail system and we used to have an intercity rail system until SEPTA shut service and continues to run a half-ass service just to it's suburbs. I've seen and riden your system and it's indeed world class. I wished SEPTA had a real good subway system as well as a commuter rail system to complement it.

I am as pro-Philly as can be resonably expected but rail systems don't make cities world class status. World class cities evolve with miniscule percentage of poverty,booming office sectors, superior cultural activities, low crime, and clean neighborhoods. Out of those categories the only one that would get Philly on a world class list might be culture. We have a long way to go before Philly is world class.

This city is carrying way way too much dead weight to be a world class city.
You can't just pick and choose by saying Fairmount park is world class, or Sceity Hill is world class, you have to take the city as a whole and it simply does not measure up.

I am as pro-Philly as can be resonably expected but rail systems don't make cities world class status. World class cities evolve with miniscule percentage of poverty,booming office sectors, superior cultural activities, low crime, and clean neighborhoods. Out of those categories the only one that would get Philly on a world class list might be culture. We have a long way to go before Philly is world class.

This city is carrying way way too much dead weight to be a world class city.
You can't just pick and choose by saying Fairmount park is world class, or Sceity Hill is world class, you have to take the city as a whole and it simply does not measure up.

I can understand what you're saying, but you look at the other world-class cities like NYC, CHicago, London, Paris, Berlin, HK, Tokyo, Shanghai, Sydney, and DC and they have efficient mass transportation systems, someting Philly doesn't have and it's a shame. We should've had this type of system a long time ago, but we dragged our feet on this one. You look at the changing skyline and even though things changed over the course of 20 years in this city, the thing that should've remained the same should've been an extensive subway system and a commuter rail capable of going to Reading, West Chester, Lehigh Valley, Vineland, Millville, Bridgeton, Cape May, and the PATCO should've gone to Woodbury, Deptford, Cherry Hill, and Maple Shade, as well as Lindenwold. If we had all this, we would've been the third largest transportation system in the US behind NYC and Chicago. Now that's world-class!!!

First of all,the only parts that drag Philly down is North and parts of west Philly. possibly some parts of southwest.Another thing is the lack of jobs. Transportation may be apart of it, but its not really that big of a deal.Actually,SEPTA broad street line does suck, but the other lines arent that bad.....
I have to say that there are many Philadelphians that dont even know their own city or that certain parts exist. My neighborhood, for example.

Seattle has a very overrated skyline. Like SF, it is built on hills so it looks taller than it is. Once you're there and walking around you realize Seatte is pretty small. It also has few 500+ footers. This makes the ones there are show up better in photos, and some are very impressive, but in person the city lacks density, and is really far from awesome. Not nearly as good as Philly.

The main problem for Philly is that it is losing population and it has large areas that are very decrepit. Right or wrong, many people think it is dangerous. Getting people to move back in has been a real problem with no solution in sight.

Comcast is a great addition to the skyline but is government subsidized and many landlords think all that office space will lead to a reduction in office rents, and actually be bad for the city. We'll have to wait and see.

Boston has been more successful for decades than Philly. They really are different cities in that Philly was a heavy manufacturer much longer than Boston, and Boston moved into high tech much sooner, and benefitted greatly from that.

Boston is a harbor city and Phily is on a river. Boston harbor is beautiful and huge and was once the largest in the US. It lost out to NY mainly because NY got access to the continent throught the erie canal. There was no way to build such a canal to Boston from the great lakes because the appalachains form a north south chain across new england while upstate NY has an east west corridor that is open.

Now Boston Harbor is an asset because the old piers have been redeveloped into condos with great water views. The outer, deeper water parts of the harbor still service large container ships and cruise lines.

Boston's sklyline is very under rated, as is Phill'y to a lesser degree. Like Philly, Boston is built on a flat area and gets no benefit from hills, the height you see is real building height. Boston also has a decentralized skyline with five or six highrise areas inluding DT, backbay, longwood, the west end, Kendal Square Cambridge and the Cambridge riverfront (separte city but visually a single skyline), with the Seaport area building like mad and soon to have its own skyline. It is totally impossible to get all of these areas into a single picture or even a pano unless one is far away, so the builings look small. In person though, one can travel buy foot or car and go from one highrise area to another through a continous, wall to wall urban fabric that covers a very large area, and is generally safe, clean, and interesting. There are very few cities in the US that come close to this.

Boston and Philly are both college towns. They are also both major financial centers (Boston is often considered the 3rd biggest finacial center in the US after NY and Chi.) They both have large DT pops, about 79,000 each, with lots of street life.

IMO, Philly shouldn't have an inferiority complex. Even with its problems, it's among the great cities of the US. It's not the greatest, but after NY, every city is a distant second.

I can understand what you're saying, but you look at the other world-class cities like NYC, CHicago, London, Paris, Berlin, HK, Tokyo, Shanghai, Sydney, and DC and they have efficient mass transportation systems, someting Philly doesn't have and it's a shame. We should've had this type of system a long time ago, but we dragged our feet on this one. You look at the changing skyline and even though things changed over the course of 20 years in this city, the thing that should've remained the same should've been an extensive subway system and a commuter rail capable of going to Reading, West Chester, Lehigh Valley, Vineland, Millville, Bridgeton, Cape May, and the PATCO should've gone to Woodbury, Deptford, Cherry Hill, and Maple Shade, as well as Lindenwold. If we had all this, we would've been the third largest transportation system in the US behind NYC and Chicago. Now that's world-class!!!


I agree that a glaring omission in Philly's infrastructure is a developed mass transit system. In NYC and Chicago, taking the El or subway to get around the downtown proper is always an option. Personally, I never drive to either a Cubs or Sox game -- the Red Line is the way to go. I doubt many consider taking SEPTA to see a Phillies game.

What does Philly need to do in order to have some system in place that would connect its neighborhoods better than SEPTA does or ever will?

Though not as extensive as a sub, Houston recently installed a light rail system, which shows that they are concientious of the need for mass transit. Would Philly ever consider something like that?

Comcast is a great addition to the skyline but is government subsidized and many landlords think all that office space will lead to a reduction in office rents, and actually be bad for the city. We'll have to wait and see.

How tall is the Comcast Tower (correct name?) supposed to be when finished? When is it going to be finished? Are there any pictures of the Philly skyline that show the Comcast being built right now?

First of all,the only parts that drag Philly down is North and parts of west Philly. possibly some parts of southwest.Another thing is the lack of jobs. Transportation may be apart of it, but its not really that big of a deal.Actually,SEPTA broad street line does suck, but the other lines arent that bad.....
I have to say that there are many Philadelphians that dont even know their own city or that certain parts exist. My neighborhood, for example.

*Sweetkisses* what the hell are you talkin about. How exactly does NorthPhilly/west Philly Drag u down?

Boston is a harbor city and Phily is on a river. Boston harbor is beautiful and huge and was once the largest in the US. It lost out to NY mainly because NY got access to the continent throught the erie canal. There was no way to build such a canal to Boston from the great lakes because the appalachains form a north south chain across new england while upstate NY has an east west corridor that is open.

Now Boston Harbor is an asset because the old piers have been redeveloped into condos with great water views. The outer, deeper water parts of the harbor still service large container ships and cruise lines.

I might have paid attention to this. But You sound like you work for the Boston Tourism commision. and a stinkin Patriots fan.

*Sweetkisses* what the hell are you talkin about. How exactly does NorthPhilly/west Philly Drag u down?

She didn't say North Philly drags her down she said it drags Philly down...meaning it's reputation. And the truth is...it does. I have been to North Philly, I have some family there and I really like the place. It has a ton of character that comes with grit and rough areas and I love it. But it does have a reputation and some people focus solely on that and therefore Philadelphia's reputation can be dragged down sometimes because of certain areas. But I am different from most people. I think North Philly actually makes Philadelphia appeal to me even more. Just my opinion.

Boston is a harbor city and Phily is on a river. Boston harbor is beautiful and huge and was once the largest in the US. It lost out to NY mainly because NY got access to the continent throught the erie canal. There was no way to build such a canal to Boston from the great lakes because the appalachains form a north south chain across new england while upstate NY has an east west corridor that is open.




While the Erie Canal improved NY's position vis a vis Boston and Philly. New York had already won the battle for supremacy well before the canal was opened. In 1820, five years before the canal was finished, New York had a population of 123,706. This was double Philly's population of 63,802, and nearly triple Boston's population of 43,298 . The point is that NY had already won the war to be America's leading city. The canal just ensured that there would be no comeback by it's rivals, especially Philadelphia, which could have become a threat if the canal to Pittsburgh had been completed before the Erie.

Keep in mind that those numbers for Philly in 1820 only account for what is present day Center City. The adjoining neighborhoods of Northern Liberties, Spring Garden and Kensington were seperate towns in 1820. I believe all 3 towns had a population of between 15,000 and 20,000 people each. technically NYC was twice as large but in reality Philadlephia was probably slightly larger.

The reason Philadelphia got lost in the shuffle goes a few years further back.
1790 you can thank Thomas Jefferson(Secreatary of State-Va.) and Alexander Hamilton(Secretary of Treasury-NY) for taking the political power and Financial and banking out of Philadelphia and re-distributing them to their states.

The capitol district was planned for Germantown and probably would have come to fruition if it were not for these two individuals. Philly got sucker punched and really has not recovered to this day.

Imagine if the erie canal had gone to Philly. Even though it was smaller than NYC at the time, the difference was small and Philly could easily have come to dominate. The same can be said for Boston.

I have lived in and around Boston for many years so for better or worse I know a fair amount about it. I have also lived in and traveled to many other cities and know a fair amount about some of them. BTW, I am not an avid Patriots fan although I do know they are the champs. I've been around for long enough to know that the only thing harder than becoming a champion is remaining one.

Thank you BigDan for clarifying that. Some people just love to make a mountain out of an anthill.

How tall is the Comcast Tower (correct name?) supposed to be when finished? When is it going to be finished? Are there any pictures of the Philly skyline that show the Comcast being built right now?

BigDan... It's gonna be roughly under 1000ft. a little shorter than your Library tower.

BigDan... It's gonna be roughly under 1000ft. a little shorter than your Library tower.

Yea, I just read somewhere it will be 975 feet give or take a few. That will make it Philadelphia's tallest. It should really add to the skyline then.

Yeah.... here's a shitty rendering I stole from a guy over SSP and placed in the skyline....... It sucks, but it gives you an idea.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/joe84323/fakephillyrendering.jpg

I think the Philadelphia skyline is one of the most impressive in the country, certainly compared to Dallas or Seattle. I love Seattle and all but it's a very blandly consistent skyline, just like Portland or Vancouver. Philadelphia's skyline is one which has been affected by centuries of changing times and it's evident in it's appearance. It's commercial and industrial, decayed and pristine all at once. Unlike Seattle or New York, every block doesn't tower as high as it possibly can, it towers here and there, leaving room for the steeples and clock towers to be seen among the spires of the Liberty Towers rather than shadowed by them.

As for Philadelphia's alleged inferiority complex, sure there are plenty of people here who seem a bit insecure about a number of things. Living wedged between New York and Washington, possibly the two most powerful entities in the world might make people forget about us occasionally, while Seattle, although about a fourth the size can thrive as an international hub for several billion dollart industries. It also doesn't help that Philadelphia continues to elect to fill it's administration with the most corrupt and unenlightened individuals the NE has to offer who themselves clearly suffer from an inferiority complex. Philadelphia will never be a first tier city again as it was 200 years ago. Those slots will always be reserved for DC, NYC and Los Angeles. So anyone who's so insecure about living in the shadow of the New York skyline, get over your rants about how much "better" Philadelphia is than New York. I'm not saying New York IS better than Philadelphia, but statistically it will always have us beat. But when it comes to loving the City of Brotherly Love, do it with some humility. People view Philadelphia as a city full of trailer trash because of the over-abundance of inferiority-induced pride at Eagle's games riots and our loud mouths. While cities like New York, Loas Angeles and Washington could stand to shed some of their superiorty complex, we could stand to humble ourselves just a tad as well. Maybe if we acted like Chicagoans or Portlanders, businesses would actually consider Philadelphia as a viable alternative rather than just an urban extension of New Jersey.

Washingtonian, I agree with SOME of the things you said.
But lets not be so pessimistic here. I agree, Philly does have a lot of work to do to improve itself. But I dont think its so far downhill that it cant hop back on its feet. Remember, never say never.
Youre right. Philly probably wont ever be massive like New york, or glamorous like LA. And I dont think we should try to be like them because Philly is Philly. We need our own identity.
Im sick and tired of Philly being looked at as an overabundance of loud mouth, obnoxious football fans. I for one, am not into football and I'm not a die hard eagles fan. I know plenty of people who are the same way.

Washingtonian, I agree with SOME of the things you said.
But lets not be so pessimistic here. I agree, Philly does have a lot of work to do to improve itself. But I dont think its so far downhill that it cant hop back on its feet. Remember, never say never.
Youre right. Philly probably wont ever be massive like New york, or glamorous like LA. And I dont think we should try to be like them because Philly is Philly. We need our own identity.
Im sick and tired of Philly being looked at as an overabundance of loud mouth, obnoxious football fans. I for one, am not into football and I'm not a die hard eagles fan. I know plenty of people who are the same way.

I agree, I don't think Phila should be as big as NYC, LA, or Chicago to be considered. Just be known as a major city in this country is good enough (having 2 million people in the city wouldn't hurt either). Look at major cities like Dallas, Houston, Boston, SF, Seattle, DC, Atlanta, and Miami. Either these cities used to have less than a million people or they currently have less, but they're considered major players. Some of these cities overshadow Philadelphia in the tech, business, and cultural scene. I feel a business and cultural scene would suit us best because we have the venues to do all this, but we're bypassed in favor of the cities I just mentioned. I also think we need to get rid of the inferiority complex if we're going to be able to compete becuase that's the only thing that's dragging us down. At least build a 1000-feet skyscraper, not a 975-feet one so we can at least say our skyscraper has 1000-feet, not almost. That's the way we can get rid of the complex. And a championship wouldn't hurt either.

^ Yes. But one thing Philly isnt overshadowed in is culture. Philly has a lot of that.:)

I totally agress Sweet Kisses. Philly has alot of culture. The theater and arts community far out-do Washington and even rival New York sometimes.

As for building a 1000 foot skyscraper to solve our "inferiority complex," that just seems to me to be the way someone with an inferiority complex would think. Building a huge office building didn't make Seattle an IT hub. I mean I do think the new Comcast building looks really nice and it's exciting and all but what's going to happen with the two buildings Comcast already uses? We've already got one eye-sore of a parking lot right by City Hall, I'd hate to see us lose Center Square to another one. Is there an active association or department really trying to recruit industry to the area? Someone to make sure that a 975 foot office tower isn't going to increase the office space vacancy rate in Center City?

That's the rub people. While Comcast is in 2 buildings, what happens to that space when they move? The wrecking ball people, the wrecking ball!

And I agree with earlier points. A 1000 foot tower won't make Philly elite. It would seem out of place in the skyline. The skyline has about 7 or eight standout buildings. The smaller buildings give that dense crowded city look.

It'll never have as many towers as Miami, Chicago or NY. No one will have as many as those cities. But Atlanta, Boston, Washington all have less than 600 thousand peeps. They all are financial, tech, edu hubs. Philly is more industry trying to copy those molds. With the population loss and already having more than 70k living in CC, I don't know where else the growth is going to come from... building wise.

Recently city council voted for cuts in the business priveldge tax, that most damaging of taxes that keeps business out. Taking the ethics legislation which is getting past, and more that will get passed in the future now that there's a push for it, I think there's hope for business growth. I mean the two things that businesses complain about are the city government and the BPT, both of which are changing. Give it time.

philly needs a good mayor. that's all, IMO. there's so much going for it, and I really do think that the suburban 'culture' will begin to lose its luster in the next couple years as gas continues its never-ending rise in prices. So then more people will add to the ones already moving downtown, and with a good mayor to spread the news, there will be a buzz about philly. its fundamentals as a city are great, yet its not so gentrified and boring as the wealthy centers of boston, washington dc and manhattan/brooklyn, so young people can afford to move in. incidentally, I think the same about pittsburgh, and the same is already happening to baltimore (they have a good mayor).

But philly's the only one who're gonna have a superbowl title to celebrate ;)

A 1000 foot tower won't make Philly elite. It would seem out of place in the skyline. The skyline has about 7 or eight standout buildings. The smaller buildings give that dense crowded city look.



It's just only 25 more feet that will make the Comcast Center 1000 feet. Personally, I think it will blend well with Liberty Place, the Bell Atlantic Tower, and the Mellon Bank Center.

all i have to say is that i wuv my soon to be home:

http://www.pbase.com/mancusoj/image/44100135.jpg

^ where will you be living?

^ hopefully somewhere within the vicinity of fitler square and rittenhouse square but closer to south or lombard street where the rents are more reasonable. maybe manyunk...