May as well start this off.

http://tinypic.com/4qsc2c

http://tinypic.com/4qsbgi

Interesting new road layout. They seem to have removed the eastern side of paradise circus and wrapped it around the western side of the development, creating more space and that expanded public square area.

Clearly this is just a notional illustration of the project - but the inclusion of towers is - as ever - encouraging. At least they are on the agenda.

With this and Arena Central going on more or less in parallel we could be in for some exciting times over the next five years.

With this and Arena Central going on more or less in parallel we could be in for some exciting times over the next five hundred years.

I think you missed a word out ;)

Is Hill Street still there, in front of the Town Hall? Removal of that st will be silly as it's a useful exit route - recently changed so that all traffic can use it now and not just buses, I might add. Logical thinking at last.

I think you missed a word out ;)

oh yes! typo - my mistake :doh: :lol:

Is Hill Street still there, in front of the Town Hall? Removal of that st will be silly as it's a useful exit route - recently changed so that all traffic can use it now and not just buses, I might add. Logical thinking at last.

Yep - where it leads onto paradise street? Still there, but its white for some reason as if it had been pedestrianised. Cant see them doing that - that would make upper Hill Street a dead end, which seems a bit daft.

hold on...wheres the car park next the rep gone....christ...do they want to remove any more car parks near symphony NIA and rep!! its already a nightmare

whoops - didnt notice that. Another building. Well, that gap's always been earmarked for filling. Maybe they'll stick a nice big underground one there.

from the rendering it looks like Chamberlain Sq will be modifed too ? Hmm.. I kinda like the current shape of the square

Also if I am not too mistaken the tower on the left looks as tall as Alpha Tower ? I konw it is a rough rendering but hopefully there could be a tower of about 30 storeys ?

well to me the tower on the left looks about the same size as alpha and the one to the right a little taller!

we always knews that carpark was due to bge built on. open surface car parks are just not economical in a city of our size!

Queensway tunnel appears to still be there, thank god.
I think alpha tower looks sexy in black!!

Were was this rendering found/what stage is planing permission at?

Can't see the Queensway there can you? :?

on the left

Looks like a pretty cool project :) Chances of this one going ahead unhindered?

None judging by the decision on the library, the metro/underground and arena central central, etc. Oh well, im sure it will be finished by 2050 :)

Looks like a pretty cool project :) Chances of this one going ahead unhindered?

Better than even I'd say - the council approve, as did the previous one, and the developers have a good track record with brindleyplace being as successful as it is. An early start really hinges on replacing the central library. As the current lot in power at the council house seem to want to move the entire library into a building already under conversion, this might happen sooner than we think. Failing that, they're talking about a PFI to get a new library built elsewhere.

Who knows, perhaps argent can incorporate this into their plans. Maybe - perhaps - thats the building we see in the background between the rep theatre and baskerville house.

This is complete speculation though.

Whilst Centenary Square can be blocked to alot of visitors to Birmingham due to the obstacle that is the central library, Chamberlain Square itself is a great meeting place in the city, and acts as an ampitheatre to great effect, with the graduated steps leading from the square to the library/Paradise Forum entrance. Over the years, this square has seen different events staged , from the relative recent siting of the outside BBC Tv large-screen , through to the World Cup, and various ArtsFests bands and theatre each year. On a sunny day there is no better place in Brum ,in my view to enjoy the arts and view the architectural treasures of the old city. The views of the Town hall and the Council House/BCMG , from the library and McD's are very special too, and these mustn't be lost in any new design for Paradise Circus/Chamberlain Square.

Looking closely at the rendering, it looks like the steps that feature so prominently in chamberlain square have been retained. If anything, the square seems to have been opened out and extended back towards great charles street and along the western side of town hall. Nothing to fear there in terms of losing out. If anything, the views may be improved.

Because the tunnel (not Queensway) under the Library is going, there's going to be loads of space at the rear of the Town Hall. Yes, I think Chamberlain SQ is going to be kept in the style as extg, and increased in size.
One thing Brum does well is creating public squares and enhancing them with works of art.
I think the Council should fast track the deal to make Baskerville the venue for the new Library, because this is a very important development here. If it grows the same time as Eastside, perfect. There are plenty of options still left for the Eastside Library site - an Olympic sized swimming pool and Arts venue is my preferred choice, and in a World Class Architectural Design.

I think the opening up of Paradise Circus is good for Centenary Sq and the oldMuseum and the Town Hall perhaps as it opens up the view from Great Charles St.

But unless Gtreat Charles St itself is to be made more pedestrain freindly wont it be a a passage to/from nowhere ?

I did look at the images closely somehow I think the steps from Chamberlain Sq to the tobegone library are to be gone though.. :( and the square now looks opened up.. but a bit narrower rather than semi circular loosing its amphi theatre look

have any of you lot thought that one of the new buildings in the development could be the the new library????

i mean work could statr on part of paradise building a new library and then demolish the old library! bprob the quickest way of getting this into reality!

have any of you lot thought that one of the new buildings in the development could be the the new library????

i mean work could statr on part of paradise building a new library and then demolish the old library! bprob the quickest way of getting this into reality!

won't the new library be too small ( unless it 10 plus storied ) woody ? as the area for the building would only be a part of the current library area.. plus most libraries are not tall buildings

I still want the library in Eastside.Am I the only one?

I still want the library in Eastside.Am I the only one?
yes. :)

I strongly agree with Nacho both on the library and on his comments this scheme.

won't the new library be too small ( unless it 10 plus storied ) woody ? as the area for the building would only be a part of the current library area.. plus most libraries are not tall buildings

Most of the library's volume is taken up by empty space - Paradise Forum. I'm pretty sure several of those buildings could accomodate the library facilities as they are, but stripped of all the extras that would have been included in the Eastside proposal, or even a different but more expansive site. Space seems a little tight here.

I'm with Nacho on this one too, I would still like to see the library in a defined learning quarter where there is plenty of space rather than in the centre of the city where there is a higher return on rents and higher calibre tenents.

and I don't want a PFI delivered scheme either as it doesn't encourage quality architecture, does anyone know when are likely to hear a decision on this?

This looks good. Like a smaller version of Spinningfields. :)

Pfft.

I was wondering where you'd got to, the place seemed strangely peaceful :tongue2:

ha ha god u do come out with some tosh dont u earlybird

This looks good. Like a smaller version of Spinningfields. :)

Is Spinningfields that smaller of version of Eastside?

lol thats how i alway saw it lol

Is Spinningfields that smaller of version of Eastside?

No, it's actually larger. You forget that what you've seen is a) only phase one and b) excludes the residential part of the scheme (Left Bank apartments).

Larger than Eastside? If so that's impressive, but I don't believe it.

blah blah blah blah...yadaddy ya!! i dont care brum has the worlds best thing ever and its bigger than yours so there....blah blah

Larger than Eastside? If so that's impressive, but I don't believe it.

Spinningfields is Europe's largest new build office development and Leftbank apartments are one of the UK's largest residential schemes. You'd better believe it.

Im sure they are earlybird, but that does not make them bigger than eastside. Spinningfields is in total - what - 4 million square feet tops? Eastside is a 420 acre, 10 million square foot, £6 billion pound, decade-long regeneration project. And thats not including the Irish Quarter.

Earlybird - stop being such a stupid fucking troll.

Spinningfields is Europe's largest new build office development and Leftbank apartments are one of the UK's largest residential schemes. You'd better believe it.

Great. But I thought Eastside was Europe's largest city centre redevlopment project. It's an entire distrcit of the city. Not just Masshouse or City Park Gate or stuff.

Im sure they are earlybird, but that does not make them bigger than eastside. Spinningfields is in total - what - 4 million square feet tops? Eastside is a 420 acre, 10 million square foot, £6 billion pound, decade-long regeneration project. And thats not including the Irish Quarter.

As I told you, this is the first part of Spinningfields. Spinningfields is also a regeneration project, probably lasting over a decade too. We've only seen the first residential and commercial sectors so far. Once they've let them all they'll release the plans for the next sections. It depends on if you're talking about Spinningfields as in the whole regeneration area or Spinningfields as in the section Allied London are constructing at the moment.

talking about eastside, has anyone noticed that the eastside has gone?!?!?!?

do we think now that instead they are going to do websites for each indevidual phase like we already have a website for masshouse and city park gate?????

ps according to the richard rogers suite, city parkl gate will be 14 floors high + spire!

btw, just dopne 2 maps showing comparrisson sizes
sorry if the manc one is out a little as i dont know it too well. however, used the spinningfields website as a guide!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/woodhousen/spinvseast.jpg

As I said, that's phase one, the Allied London part. Why go off a web site about the Allied London phase when I specifically pointed out to you that this was only a part of the entire Spinningfields development?

eb finds a friend. :)

http://www.puffins-brixham.velnet.co.uk/nick/ebgirl.jpg

I've had her!

i did nt know manchester was spelt with "ord" on end? lol

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/woodhousen/spinvseast.jpg[/QUOTE]

ha ha ha ha ha ha lol

ummm, well on the allied london site, this is the only thing i can find about spinning fields......nothing suggesting that this is only phase 1 of a larger project...... on the net i cant find any maps or anything of the "larger" spinningfields scheme? r u sure EB

Spinningfields is an important real estate development by Allied London Properties.

Working in partnership with Manchester City Council, it will provide over 325,000 sq m (3.5m sq ft) of high-quality commercial, civic, residential, retail and open space integrated into Manchester's thriving city centre business district.

Its size, scale, quality and location all point to a development of international stature that will provide the UK's largest new city centre business districts outside London, shift the regeneration of Manchester into a different gear and create a new business destination for Europe.

http://www.driversjonas.com/?doc=1594

This will be what EB is talking about. It's land adjacent to Spinningfields, but is not branded as Spinningfields and we have no further information about it (although it is tipped as a likely new home for BBC).

Now can we get back to discussing the Paradise Project.

Is it safe to come out yet? Shall we invite him to the meet-up?

that map of brum is wrong! St.andrews (Football stadium) is in the wrong place!!!

..nno it isnt, that is where st andrews is!

Nope - its in the wrong place - they stuck it on the northern side of garrison lane. Its actually sandwiched between garrison lane and the B4128 by the railway cutting - just by the triangular thing.

Not that this is even vaguely relevent to the thread btw.

Well after wanting to get involved in these debates for ages Ive joined up. Did anyone see today's Birmingham Post front page article on the Westside project. The title misleads though - makeover revealed, (not really yet).

£1bn Paradise Circus makeover revealed May 2 2005
By Paul Dale

Major private sector firms and Birmingham City Council are drawing up a regeneration framework to deliver a £1 billion makeover of Paradise Circus and the surrounding area.

The West End project will create four million square feet of high-quality mixed use development and attract thousands of new jobs in the professional services sector.

The scheme could involve demolition of the Central Library and construction of a new library on the Paradise Circus site.

The council has brought together Arena Central Developments, Argent and Targetfollow to devise development options.

Argent, which built Brindleyplace, owns the lease on Paradise Forum and Chamberlain House while Target-follow is refurbishing and extending Baskerville House - a possible location for the new library.

University of Central England, a significant landowner in the area, will be a member of the framework steering committee. UCE has interests in the School of Music, the Conservatoire and the Cambrian halls of residence behind Baskerville House.

The collaboration between public and private sectors is the idea of city council leader Mike Whitby.

Coun Whitby (Con Harborne) said: "Birmingham's track record in initiating regeneration is second to none - a fact recognised last year by the Urban Land Institute's award to the city.

"Our approach to remaining competitive in today's marketplace is outstanding and the energy and drive that delivers the ongoing regeneration of the city shows no signs of diminishing.

"Birmingham has rein-vented itself magnificently in the past 15 years and the West End framework will provide a strategy in which the completed vision for this area of the city and the timescales for delivery are set out.

Kick-starting the programme is Targetfollow's appointment of Sir Terry Farrell to draw up a strategic design framework for the land surrounding Baskerville House, known as Baskerville Wharf.

The site covers an extensive area north of Centenary Square.

Plans are being worked out by Argent for an initial £2 million facelift for Paradise Forum, with a mix of retail and leisure uses.

Argent director Gary Taylor said: "A framework to clarify the vision for the area will drive the process forward as, although the area has benefited greatly in the last decade from high levels of private investment, the uncertainty surrounding particular areas such as Paradise Circus has led to a lack of investment which is letting the city down.

welcome to the forum Feltip :)

its good to see more poeple joining on

yeah i cant wait to see the plans for this site. Should be an excellent development!

Thanks for the info feltip and welcome to the forum. Good to see that they are pursuing a coordinated approach to this with Arena Central and the UCE involved. Very promising I must say :yes:

Welcome to the boards feltip :) Hopefully your excellent sig will pour some much needed common sense into the place.

nice one, sounding very good!

Interesting to note they are considering building the new library on site, as well as looking at the Baskerville house option.

Also noteworthy is the reference to Baskerville wharf - 'covering an extensive area north of centenary square'. That leads me to think that would take up both the flats and green space around the Flapper and Firkin at cambrian wharf, the car park next to the rep and the space behind Baskerville House where the car park and uni accomodation is. This is potentially a development as big as Brindleyplace.

id imagine bigger than brindley place. 4,000,000 sqft is alot and thats just paradise circus........ imagine if chamberlian wharf is inluded

I think it includes Chamberlain Wharf, Paradise circus will have around 3m sq ft they won't be able to fit in any more relastically. That render is a good guide and its encourging that we might still gets some 100m towers or so. Long way off though so we are gonna have lots of patience.

Thanks for the info.Welcome on board feltip

I have noticed looking at the pictures at the very start of this thread that the only way across to Cenenery Square is that bridge, wouldn't it make more sense to extend this so they can improve pedestrian access and give them more building space, it's not that hard to build over the top of a road is it? (say he, not knowing what he's talking about)

A bridge will be built to take the Metro across;I imagine there will be more access for pedestrians too.

I strongly agree with Nacho both on the library and on his comments this scheme.

I too would like both the lending AND reference library moved to eastside near to Mill. Point. The council's idea of having 2 libraries in 2 separate locations is idiotic and typically short sighted.

I know they have to keep an eye on costs of such grandiose schemes, because as we all know initial budgets are just pie-in-the-sky figures and the true reality is far different (Scottish Parliament is perhaps the worst example of all)

But as usual the Council are still filibusting with more indecision. And as a consequence the Paradise plan gets put on hold ad infinitum. :mad:

I have now become a pessimist... The Rogers Libar is NEVER going to get built hence the ugly monster that is todays monster will stay and this will never get constructed...I don't see any worse than that...Do you..?

:nuts: :nuts: :nuts: :hammer: :hammer: :cry: :cry: :wallbash: :wallbash: :mad2: :mad2:

Jesus H Christ. why can't this incompetent fucking council get off its fat fucking arse and do something fucking constructive for once rather sitting on the fucking fence wanking itself off in a sea of bureaucratic bullshit.

All these delays and political fannying around is doing my fucking head in; year in, year out same old shit :bash: