Hello all! Time to create an A350 thread, I'm one of the more interested in this up-and-coming aircraft so I'll post articles here as I find them. Enjoy! :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Enter the dragon to help make new plane
Apr 27 2005


By David Jones, Daily Post


CHINESE engineers are to carry out design work for Airbus' A350 programme - the European aircraft maker's next generation jet.

The company and China Aviation Industry Corporation (AVIC) are setting up a joint venture engineering centre in Beijing.

Two hundred engineers will be recruited by 2008 and staff from Airbus' Broughton wing-making plants are also expected to play a key role.

Airbus executive vice president Philippe Delmas said: "We believe the Chinese engineers, together with their colleagues in other Airbus engineering centres, will be able to make significant contributions to the design of Airbus aircraft in the future."

AVIC's vice president Xu Zhanbin said: "In recent years Airbus has constantly increased procurement in China.

"This engineering centre signals Airbus is committed to strengthening industrial cooperation with China."

Airbus said the new centre will be another step on the road to China becoming a full risk-sharing partner in the development of new jets, taking responsibility for a part of a programme, from design to manufacturing, including investment and profit sharing.

Last October Airbus outlined plans to increase its Chinese procurement to about £60m a year by 2010. Wing technologies for the A320 family of Airbus jets are already being produced in China.

The transfer of manufacturing technologies and assembly of wing components has gone hand-in-hand with a drive by Airbus to boost sales in the rapidly growing Chinese market.

Last week it signed a deal to sell 30 jets to China, but it has its work cut out to keep ahead of American rival Boeing whose new long-range 787 - the A350's competitor - has already chalked up 217 orders and commitments from airlines around the world.

A world-class training and support centre in which Airbus has invested more than £40m is fully operational in the Chinese capital.

Airbus' new A380 super-jumbo is due to make its maiden flight at Toulouse, France, today.

Engineering giant BAE Systems, which has a 20% stake in Airbus, is to open a recruitment office in Birmingham in a drive to hire some of the 6,000 workers losing their jobs following the collapse of MG Rover.

* Kingfisher Airlines, based in Mumbai, India, has become a new Airbus operator after taking delivery of its first A320. The jet is the first of four A320s the airline is leasing. It has also placed firm orders for another 10 of the 174-seat A320s, together with 20 options, and for three 144-seat A319s.

Steve Creedy
April 15, 2005

EUROPEAN manufacturer Airbus will "future proof" its new A350 aircraft with landing gear that can handle heavier designs that may be demanded by airlines after its introduction in 2010.

Following the maxim that airlines always want more later, the gear will be designed to allow the plane maker to increase the weight of the aircraft without running into problems with runway loading.

"This is clearly designed as a platform for growth - either capacity, range or eventually both," Airbus A330-A340 product marketing manager Alan Pardoe said in Sydney yesterday.

The gear decision is one of several recent innovations Airbus has added to its A350 design as it continues to firm up the plane's design with airlines. Another is a decision to locate the flight crew rest area below the cockpit and behind the security door.

Airbus is aiming its long-range derivative of the successful A330 family squarely at Boeing's attempts to dominate the 250-to-300-seat market with its 787 "Dreamliner".

And while the Europeans may have launched their aircraft later than the US plane, they believe this will ultimately give them the upper hand.

"We do have ... the benefit of seeing what the other guy has been up to because they were out of the traps ahead of us," Mr Pardoe said. "So we have a very clear target, as always, of doing better."

Airbus believes its A350-800 version will have about 10 per cent more seat capacity than the equivalent 787 and about 600 nautical miles more range.

It has also been working hard to demonstrate lower fuel burn per seat, lower maintenance costs per seat and, ultimately, lower cash costs per seat.

"Equally we've been working hard to develop a cabin that will certainly be as attractive and, we would like to believe, more attractive than our competitor's offering," Mr Pardoe said.

Other innovations include a re-engineered aft fuselage which means the rear pressure bulkhead has been pushed back several hundred millimetres to relocate the entry to the cabin crew rest area and add galley volume.

"The snowball effect of all of that on a 350-800 is about 12 more seats compared to an equivalent 330-200," Mr Pardoe said.

The flight deck will be a common type rating with the A330 but will see the end of cathode ray tubes and will include innovations such as dual Integrated Shipboard Information System displays and a vertical component to the navigation display.

Airbus believes new 72,000lb thrust General Electric GEnx engines will be 15 per cent more efficient than the company's current engines.

New pylons and nacelles have been designed to accept other engine types should manufacturers decide to produce them.

Improved low-speed aerodynamics using the A380's distinctive "droop nosed slat" are expected to deliver an improved take-off weight for essentially the same wing area.

Airframe maintenance costs are expected to be at least 15 per cent lower and the company is trying to improve on that figure. About half of that improvement will come from greater maintenance intervals and the rest from systems and reliability improvements.

Like the heavily composite 787, advanced materials will play a big role. The A350 will feature carbon-fibre wing and keel beams with extensive use of lightweight aluminium-lithium in the fuselage shell and cross beams.

The skin will use larger panels joined by laser welding in the lower fuselage to radically reduce the number of joints, making it more durable and eliminating areas susceptible to corrosion.

But Airbus engineers have decided against extending the use of composites, which will make up about 37 per cent of the plane, into the fuselage shell.

"We cannot see how a composite fuselage delivers you the kind of durability that the airlines need," Mr Pardoe said, adding that the metallic skin allowed quicker, simpler repairs.

Wed April 27, 2005 11:44 AM GMT+02:00

TOULOUSE, France (Reuters) - Airbus expects more orders for the world's biggest airliner, its double-decker A380, by the end of 2005, while orders for its smaller A350 planes should total 100 by year end, its chief executive said.

"No orders arrived on the occasion of the first flight but more A380 orders are expected by the end of the year," Airbus chief executive Noel Forgeard told a news conference called to mark the maiden voyage of the jumbo aircraft on Wednesday.

As for the A350, he said: "I expect 50 orders by (airshow) Le Bourget and at least 100 by the end of the year." France's Le Bourget airshow takes place close to Paris in June.

Asked about who would succeed him as head of Airbus, he said: "This decision will come in due course."

By MarketWatch
Last Update: 5:23 PM ET April 28, 2005

PHOENIX (MarketWatch) -- Airbus (ABI.YY) is close to signing a deal for 50 A350 aircraft, said Henri Courpron, president of Airbus North America.

Courpron said at the International Aviation Symposium on Thursday that he expects to log the orders within two months for the new jets, designed to compete against Boeing Co.'s (BA) new 787 airplane.

This thread needs some pictures

http://www.zap16.com/images/A350LiR.jpg

http://www.airsider.net/files/2004/1204/005/a350900.jpg

And finally, a very humourous fictional rendering of the A350:
http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/photos/big/00000307.jpg

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2:

Um...yea...You shouldn't have mentioned your dislike of that photo. When I read that, I knew what I had to do.

P.S. You really over-do-it with the smilies.

This post already served its purpose. :)

Umm, the smart thing to do would be to do that in one of MY threads.

All you've done is ruin one of YOUR threads. Great job cheesehead :okay:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2:


this is so funny, with your stupid a350 post :) :) :)

this is so funny, with your stupid a350 post :) :) :)

Ok this page has been defaced... moving to next one...

... :) ...

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............... A note to people reading this thread: Please feel free NOT to post if you do not like this plane. STR has shown frequent Boeing-biases and has attempted to deface this thread out of spite. As childish as this is, I've come to expect this kind of behavior from a lot of SSC forumers. STR, you are now on my ignore list, any attempt to reply will be futile. If you don't like Airbus, that's your problem. Keep it to yourself. :)

PARIS, April 12 (Xinhuanet) -- The French Foreign Ministry announced Tuesday that France had decided to reconsider public aid to Airbus's new A350 aircraft, since negotiations between the European Union (EU) and the United States scheduled for three months over state aeronautics subsidies failed.

"We have been asked by Airbus to consider a dossier aimed at the support of the A350 under the form of reimbursable advances. This dossier is currently under study according to normal procedures," Foreign Ministry spokesman Jean-Baptiste Mattei said.

"The European Union and the United States agreed on Jan. 11 to start discussion over three months in order to define the conditions of a loyal competition in the aeronautic field, which was supposed to resolve the issue of public aid, to Boeing and to Airbus," said the spokesman.

He regretted that EU-US negotiations on state subsidies in their respective aeronautics sectors had not produced an agreement by Monday.

"This period of three months came to its end, without being possible to reach an accord for a balanced solution to this issue. France regrets this situation and takes note of it," he added.

AFX News Limited
05.01.2005, 03:17 PM

LONDON (AFX) - Airbus Industrie is edging ahead of Boeing Co in a race to secure a 6 bln usd (4.6 bln eur) order from Emirates airline for its A350 mid-range aircraft, according to The Business.

The newspaper did not name its source, but said Airbus's A350 aircraft is ahead of Boeing's 787 model for an order for up to 50 mid-sized aircraft.

Talks between Airbus and Emirates are taking place this weekend. The A350, an A330 derivative, is emerging as favourite because the Boeing flagship plane is too small for Emirates' requirements. Price will also determine the winner, the newspaper said.

The order could be announced at June's Paris air show, it said.

At the same time the UK government, desperate to boost manufacturing in the wake of carmaker MG Rover's collapse, is preparing to offer controversial launch aid for the A350, the newspaper added.

............... A note to people reading this thread: Please feel free NOT to post if you do not like this plane. STR has shown frequent Boeing-biases and has attempted to deface this thread out of spite. As childish as this is, I've come to expect this kind of behavior from a lot of SSC forumers. STR, you are now on my ignore list, any attempt to reply will be futile. If you don't like Airbus, that's your problem. Keep it to yourself. :)

Well, here's a guy with no sense of humor. He doesn't know jack-squat about my opinions either. Oh well, if he wants to put me on his ignore list that's cool with me. I was going to get around and update my diagram soon and if he chooses to not see it, fine by me.

This thread has been trashed anyway.

AFX News Limited
05.01.2005, 03:17 PM

LONDON (AFX) - Airbus Industrie is edging ahead of Boeing Co in a race to secure a 6 bln usd (4.6 bln eur) order from Emirates airline for its A350 mid-range aircraft, according to The Business.

The newspaper did not name its source, but said Airbus's A350 aircraft is ahead of Boeing's 787 model for an order for up to 50 mid-sized aircraft.

Talks between Airbus and Emirates are taking place this weekend. The A350, an A330 derivative, is emerging as favourite because the Boeing flagship plane is too small for Emirates' requirements. Price will also determine the winner, the newspaper said.

The order could be announced at June's Paris air show, it said.

At the same time the UK government, desperate to boost manufacturing in the wake of carmaker MG Rover's collapse, is preparing to offer controversial launch aid for the A350, the newspaper added.


What do you think?? i think boeing gets this order, the 787 is much more better..... isn't it???

...and in think that emirates wants an aircraft with two engines, not with six...

(EDIT: i'm sorry, i didn't know that the a350 has 2 engines)

What do you think?? i think boeing gets this order, the 787 is much more better..... isn't it STR???

That's fine that STR prefers the 787... but it's also why I've asked him not to post in [this] my thread, because of non-constructive criticism like this:

"STR: Any A350 news? Or is AB going to scrub this mistake?"

Indo-Asian News Service

Mumbai, May 2, 2005

Air-India on Monday sharpened its attack on Airbus, saying the European plane manufacturer didn't make a proper presentation for a $7-billion aircraft deal despite being given an opportunity.

While Airbus has charged the Air-India board with not giving it a "fair treatment" during the finalisation of the long-awaited plane deal that went to Boeing, Air-India termed the outburst as completely "malicious".

"They didn't make a proper presentation (before the Air-India board)," Air-India spokesperson Jitendra Bhargava said.

"They wanted a complete evaluation of the negotiation process. This was not acceptable to us. Now, they have no business to question the process to finalise the contract," Bhargava said.

Airbus officials were not immediately available for comment.

The Air-India spokesperson said the airline had written to the Indian government to take up the matter with Airbus after it demanded a probe into the manner the plane purchase contract was awarded to Boeing.

"The issues raised by Airbus are completely malicious and baseless. The process of finalising the contract was absolutely fair and transparent," said Bhargava, adding that both Boeing and Airbus were given a chance to make presentations.

"If they are talking about any unfair treatment, they should clearly give evidence."

In the biggest deal in Indian aviation history, international carrier Air-India last month said it would buy 50 planes from US-based Boeing to expand services.

The decision was taken in favour of Boeing after detailed examination of the recommendations of the in-house techno-economic committee appointed for examining the bids.

Both Boeing and Airbus had been vying for the contract.

The purchase of aircraft by Air-India had not only been a matter of intense lobbying by the companies, even the US and European Union authorities had been wooing the Indian government.

Soon after losing the bid to Boeing, Airbus alleged it was not allowed to make a presentation about its planned mid-range A350 that is aimed at competing with Boeing's 787.

Hello all! Time to create an A350 thread, I'm one of the more interested in this up-and-coming aircraft so I'll post articles here as I find them. Enjoy! :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

yes, we're enjoy on this funny tread of an airplane with six engines....

the A350:
http://www.airways.cz/images/novinky/airbus_350_900.jpg

the airplane looks very cool with two engine's

(EDIT: replaced picture with 6 engines into the a350 with 2 engine's)

The real A350 design has not been released yet. All we know is it'll have two GENx or RRTrent 1000 engines, and it'll be roughly the same size of the A330. Anti-Airbus forumers have been quick to write this plane off as a crappy imitation of the 787, but until we have a final design, the only way they can come to this conclusion is ignorance. :cheers:

The A350 will be a PITA for Boeing :D

What do you think?? i think boeing gets this order, the 787 is much more better..... isn't it STR???

...and in think that emirates wants an aircraft with two engines, not with six...


LOLOLO!! :rofl:

This guy is hilarious!!
First, he asks a biased person, like STR, if he thinks the 787 is better!
Then, he actually believed the 350 was going to have 6 engines! :rofl:

^ Yankee: Take that pic down, it's not the A350. For the last time THAT PIC IS A JOKE SOME GUY DREW UP!!! And apparently you can't read English when STR wrote above that pic on the other page that it's fictional!

The real A350 design has not been released yet. All we know is it'll have two GENx or RRTrent 1000 engines, and it'll be roughly the same size of the A330. Anti-Airbus forumers have been quick to write this plane off as a crappy imitation of the 787, but until we have a final design, the only way they can come to this conclusion is ignorance. :cheers:

ow, sorry.
but i expect this was ther first design of the airplane, but now i know this.
and i am not anti-airbus, do you real want that i'll take that pic down or else???

just send me a private message....

^ Oh, oops... I didn't mean to imply you were anti-Airbus, I was referring to other forumers. But yes, I would REALLY appreciate it if you took that pic down. It confuses a lot of people. Thx! :cheers:

the A350:
http://www.airways.cz/images/novinky/airbus_350_900.jpg

the airplane looks very cool with two engine's

(EDIT: replaced picture with 6 engines into the a350 with 2 engine's)

^ cheese mmmm...

is my post bettter changed?? :)

Thank you :) . Yeah that's probably the closest we can get to what the A350 will really look like.

i.e. It'll be about that size, it'll have two engines, and it'll say A350 on its side. :eat:

I guess it's nice that Airbus didn't pull a phony design out initially like the 787 and then take it back later. Silly Boeing... :)

Thank you :) . Yeah that's probably the closest we can get to what the A350 will really look like.

i.e. It'll be about that size, it'll have two engines, and it'll say A350 on its side. :eat:

I guess it's nice that Airbus didn't pull a phony design out initially like the 787 and then take it back later. Silly Boeing... :)

somewhere i like this plane!!!

This thread needs some pictures

.....

"And finally, a very humourous fictional rendering of the A350:" just delete the picture with the six engines!!!


hai STR, can you edit your post to delete your last picture of the fictional rendering????

The only trash in this thread is you and New York Yankee.
Edited.

why i am a trash, i'm gonna like this plane, bit by bit. first i'm don't like it because it has 6 engines, but it has 2 engines

*i like AIRBUS

*I love THE SUPER JUMBO A380

*I'm not an idiot

*I think i'm gonna like the a350 (because it have 2 engines)

it was a mistake of me, sorry for that.

Hmm... I need to find more news articles. :cheers:

http://forums.pakcafe.com/uploads/post-1-1106172744.gif

PIA Intrested

By Roger Yu, USA Today

Take the high road. That's the mantra of the world's elite corporations when discussing competitors.

Not so for airplane makers Boeing and Airbus, as was evident last week when each belittled the other's big achievement. Their public exchanges over the years don't rise to the level of the bold trash talk of the NBA. But they do show that admiration for each other is in check.

In a competitive coup, Chicago-based Boeing announced last week two multibillion-dollar contracts for its 777 and its new 787 Dreamliner, the fuel-efficient aircraft on which it's pinning hope for the future.

"When you are No. 2, you get tired of losing, so you start doing things to fight back," said Henri Courpron, CEO of Airbus' North American subsidiary, to The Wall Street Journal. "But is it sustainable?"

Europe's Airbus got favorable notice on Wednesday when its A380, the world's largest passenger aircraft, successfully completed its maiden flight.

"We always thought it would fly because that's what airplanes do," deadpanned Boeing CEO James Bell.

The tit-for-tat was just the latest example in a long-running feud between the rivals.

For years, Boeing was dominant among commercial airplane manufacturers. That changed two years ago when Airbus overtook Boeing in the number of planes delivered annually. Boeing, now the underdog, has had to become nimbler and more responsive to competitive threats, says Richard Aboulafia, an aviation analyst at The Teal Group.

Boeing sees its 787 Dreamliner — a long-range, fuel-efficient plane that carries about 250 passengers — as the future of commercial aviation. Airbus is planning a direct competitor in its A350 but is also counting heavily that its airline customers will embrace its much larger A380, a superjumbo that will carry about 550 passengers.

Aboulafia says the tone of the Airbus commentary on its rival is changing, driven by a spate of five recent contracts won by Boeing. "It's quite another game," he says. "When you lose five contests in a row to someone, that's a bloody nose."

Nationalism is another subtext of the rivalry. Airbus is based in Toulouse, France, and owned by a consortium of European governments. Boeing alleges unfair subsidies. Airbus counters that Boeing, too, benefits from government subsidies and from U.S. government military contracts.

Some experts aren't sure if such aggressive finger-pointing is helpful. The best companies focus on areas of internal improvement and refrain from preening, says Ben Dattner, an organizational expert at New York University.

"Denigrating outside entities can be a sign that an organization is not self-assured enough to confront the reality in a more objective way," he says.

Still, the rhetorical competition isn't without humor or occasional hints of mutual respect.

"Bien joué. Well done!" Randy Baseler, Boeing's marketing chief for the commercial airplanes unit, said in his Web log entry last week. "Today is A380's day."

Published: Thursday, 5 May, 2005, 12:14 PM Doha Time

By Pratap John

DUBAI: Qatar Airways will announce a major order for new aircraft at the Paris Airshow next month.

“We are talking to both Boeing and Airbus and hope to make an announcement in June,” Qatar Airways chief executive officer Akbar al-Baker told Gulf Times here yesterday on the sidelines of the Arabian Travel Market (ATM).

The airline eyes both Airbus A350 and Boeing 787, he said.
Asked how many aircraft Qatar Airways would order, al-Baker said that would be announced only during the next month’s Paris Airshow. However, he indicated that it would be a “huge order” for an airline of Qatar Airways’ size.

“Anyway, we plan to have some 120 aircraft by 2012 or 2014. At that time we will be among the major airlines in the world,” he said.
The impending aircraft order followed a major booking made by Qatar Airways in 2003 for some 32 Airbus aircraft valued at $5bn. Currently, the airline operates some 40, all-Airbus aircraft, all Airbus-made.

Qatar Airways is well on course to offer its shares to the public shortly, al-Baker has said. He said the airline was now in a better shape to go public in the wake of three consecutive years of profit in 2002-2003, 2003-2004 and 2004-2005. However, the profit was generated by the Qatar Airways Group as a whole and not the airline alone. “As an airline we are still in the red. But it is basically due to our commitments as a fast expanding and modern airline,” he said.

Al-Baker said high oil prices eroded Qatar Airways’ profit considerably like other airlines.

“Last year we spent $68mn over our budgeted amount on fuel bill. Nearly 30% of our total bill is now accounted for by fuel charges alone. In the next fiscal we expect the bill to go $100mn over our budgeted amount,” al-Baker said.

He denied reports that Qatar Airways was being given fuel on subsidised rates by the Government of Qatar. “It is absolutely false. We get fuel at the rates other airlines pay. Our international creditors including banks will vouch for this.”

Airbus Jet Set To Take Off With Emirates

Dominic O’Connell - The Sunday Times [www.timesonline.co.uk]

Emirates, the fast-growing Gulf airline, is set to launch Airbus’s new A350 with an order for up to 50 aircraft to be announced at the Paris Air Show next month.

The Emirates deal, worth up to $6 billion (£3.2 billion) at list prices, will be Airbus’s first big contract for the new aircraft, intended to compete head-on with Boeing’s latest plane, the 787. Both aircraft are mid-sized jets designed to carry 250 people.

Boeing has had a recent run of sales success with the 787. Last week Northwest Airlines, Airbus’s biggest customer, chose the 787 over the A350, buying 18 aircraft with options on 50 more. The deal takes Boeing’s order book for the 787 to 255 aircraft.

Airbus is pressing Britain to agree to provide launch aid to build the A350. The money — thought to be about £300m — will be used to fund the development of all-new composite wings for the aircraft to be made at Airbus UK’s Broughton factory in North Wales.

The A350 launch will revive Europe’s row with America over support for the commercial aircraft industry, which threatens to become the most serious trade dispute between the two blocs.

The A350 will be based on Airbus’s A330. It will have new wings and use efficient engines originally designed for Boeing’s 787.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Looks like the A350 just busted on to the market! :) :) :)

:cheers:

cool, so airbus won over boeing, i wonder wht was the deciding factor that made emirates' decision to purchase the a-350 over the b-787

cool, so airbus won over boeing, i wonder wht was the deciding factor that made emirates' decision to purchase the a-350 over the b-787

about how much airplane's is the deal??

^ Looks like 50. :)

i really like that airplane

I love how Airbus can 'jack the better engines from RR & EA and build this plane. :) Airbus is only going to have to spend around $3 Billion for development of this plane, whereas Boeing has poured in almost as much as the A380 project at $12 Billion.

It's a good thing for Boeing they've picked up a couple of huge orders from AI and AC lately... in a sense they HAD to, they have a hell of a deficit to make up with this.

The A350 however is going to be close to the same efficiency and pay off its development and then some with a single order from Emirates. That's good business on Airbus' part. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

how is it with the emirates deal of airbus, any news???

Emirates says no decision yet on Airbus A350
05.08.2005, 03:58 PM

DUBAI (AFX) - Dubai-based airline Emirates has denied a press report that it had decided to make a 6 bln usd (4.6 bln eur) order for 50 Airbus A350s.

'No decision has been made,' said spokesman John Tome.

Earlier, the Sunday Times newspaper reported that the fast-growing Gulf airline was to announce the order next month.

Apart from the A350, Emirates is also still looking at Boeing's 787 Dreamliner, 777-300ER and 777-200LR 'to see if we would need any of them, and if so, how many', Tome said.

Emirates has already received three of an order for 20 of the 777-300ER, but has not excluded additional orders, the spokesman said.

'We don't have anything to announce now and we don't know when we will have anything to announce,' Tome said.

Ahhhhh very good, thank you for that article SKYLINEPIGEON! :cheers: :cheers:

Aww pare Skyline beated me to it. :cry: Still at least it's posted nevertheless! :D

I guess we'll have to wait till the airshow to figure out the Emirates deal. :cheers:

... oops duplicate post. Sorry! :cheers:

The Associated Press
Sunday, May 15, 2005; 9:24 PM


NEW YORK -- As they discuss a possible merger, US Airways and America West are near a deal for a $250 million loan from Airbus as part of a 20-jet order for the aircraft maker's new A350 model, according to a newspaper report.

The loan would be part of a financing package the carriers are working to arrange with private investors for as much as $400 million, including $100 million to $150 million from ACE Aviation Holdings Inc., the parent of Air Canada, The Wall Street Journal reported Sunday on its Web site, citing people close to the situation.

Struggling Airlines:

The airline industry, facing rising fuel prices, sharp competition, an inflexible market for ticket prices and the lingering fear of terrorism, is in the midst of its most critical period in decades.

Bankrupt US Airways Group Inc. and America West Holdings Corp. acknowledged last month that they are in merger talks. Reports have said a deal could be announced as soon as this week.

The companies want to raise $500 million in new equity, with $375 million to $400 million from investment and the rest from proceeds from a rights offering that would be underwritten by a major financial institution, the newspaper's sources said. The financing includes $125 million from Air Wisconsin Airlines Corp., which was announced in February.

A spokesman for America West, based in Tempe, Ariz., declined to comment Sunday on the report.

"We'll be happy to go into details when we're able to confirm that we're either planning to move forward or if something has fallen through. Until that resolution happens, we're not able to officially comment," America West spokesman Carlo Bertolini said.

US Airways did not immediately return a call seeking comment.

A spokeswoman for Montreal-based Air Canada, which left bankruptcy court protection itself last year, told the newspaper the company doesn't comment on rumors.

Wexford Capital LLC, a hedge fund that had agreed two months ago to invest $125 million when US Airways leaves bankruptcy, isn't expected to complete that investment because other investors have offered more attractive terms, the newspaper said, citing a person familiar with the matter. But Wexford could still invest a smaller amount.

Boston-based hedge fund PAR Capital Management Inc. and a second hedge fund that also has invested in America West together are in advanced negotiations to provide $125 million of equity, the newspaper reported.

Besides a $250 million loan, Airbus would renegotiate prices and delivery dates for 63 planes the two airlines have on firm order with it, the Journal reported.

The merged airline also may agree to buy about 20 A350 jets for delivery soon after the new airplane starts flying in 2010-2011, marking the first orders for the jet from a North American customer, the newspaper said. Airbus, owned by European Aeronautic Defence & Space Co. and Britain's BAE Systems PLC, is hunting launch orders for 50 airplanes by next month.

Airbus conceived the A350 in response to Boeing Co.'s new 787, which has attracted airline demand because of its lower operating costs. The 787, under development, is expected to begin commercial service in 2008.

US Airways, based in Arlington, Va., has been in Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection since September 2004. It was the second such filing in two years for the nation's seventh-largest carrier.

^ Though this is significant that these are U.S. based airliners that are possibly going to order the A350, note that both are current operators of the A320 series already. :cheers:

AFX News Limited
05.19.2005, 08:02 AM


BRUSSELS (AFX) - The European Commission said launch aid for Airbus Industrie's A350 plane would be compatible with WTO rules.

Speaking after Boeing Co again threatened to take Airbus to the WTO if it requested government aid to launch the plane, commission spokeswoman Francoise Le Bail said the commission would not be surprised if the European aviation company had asked for such aid.

'In the view of the commission, the launch investment is legal under WTO rules,' Le Bail said.

She reiterated that the commission would prefer to resolve its dispute with the US over state aid through negotiation rather than 'counterproductive' WTO action.

'We are in contact with the Americans. We are still discussing, so everything is still possible,' she said.

AFX News Limited
05.19.2005, 08:06 AM


PARIS (AFX) - Airbus Industrie has lodged a request with the UK government for reimbursable launch aid for its A350 programme, and hopes to have a decision on the request by mid-June, a spokesman for the aircraft manufacturer said.

Airbus is also providing other European governments with information on the A350 project, ahead of official applications for similar launch aid, he said.

In London, the Department for Trade and Industry confirmed the application for aid and added it was submitted at the beginning of April.

'We received the launch and investment aid application and are considering it,' the DTI said in a statement. 'All matters around the application remain commercially confidential.'

The launch aid for the A350 project, which has not yet been formally approved by Airbus, is at the center of an EU/US dispute over state subsidies for their aeronautics industries.

Airbus is owned 80 pct by the European Aeronautic Space and Defence Co (EADS) and 20 pct by BAE Systems.

May 20 08:23
AFP

US Airways, the troubled carrier trying to emerge from bankruptcy, announced plans on Thursday to merge with discount airline America West in a deal helped by financing from European plane maker Airbus.

The merger would "create the first full-service nationwide airline, with the consumer-friendly pricing structure of a low-fare carrier," a statement from the two companies said.

The deal, subject to approval by the US Bankruptcy Court overseeing US Airways' restructuring, would operate under the US Airways brand with the chief executive to be Doug Parker, currently chairman and CEO of America West.

The merger will establish "one of the industry's most financially stable players, with over $US10 billion in annual revenues and a strong balance sheet that includes approximately two billion dollars in total cash at closing," the statement said.

US Airways filed for Chapter 11 protection in September 2004, less than 18 months after emerging from its 2002 bankruptcy filing, after failing to win sufficient concessions from its unions. It hopes to emerge from court protection later this year.

The airline would be the sixth largest in the US market terms of traffic, according to the Wall Street Journal.

The carriers said they had a pledge of $US350 million of new equity commitments and would seek a $US150 million rights offering.

The new equity investors would include ACE Aviation Holdings, parent of Air Canada, which has committed $US75 million, and other investors.

In addition, the merged airline would receive cash infusions of over $US1.1 billion, mainly from partners and suppliers.

Another $US250 million will come from Airbus, the European aerospace consortium, in the form of a loan.

As part of the deal with Airbus, the companies have agreed that the merged company will be the launch customer for the Airbus A350, with deliveries scheduled from 2011 to 2013.

"Building upon two complementary networks with similar fleets, closely-aligned labor contracts and two outstanding teams of people, this merger creates the first nationwide full-service low-cost airline," Parker said.

"Through this combination, we are seizing the opportunity to strengthen our business rather than waiting for the industry environment to improve. A combined US Airways/America West places the new airline in a position of strength and future growth that neither of us could have achieved on our own."

US Airways president and CEO Bruce Lakefield added: "US Airways has a strong franchise and great employees that will be enhanced by America West's strengths and success in the low-fare, low-cost marketplace. That we have secured such an impressive slate of equity investors and partner support in a period of such industry uncertainty is a strong indication of the prospects and enthusiasm for this transaction."

The announcement came the same day a Standard & Poor's report indicated that US airline industry's slump, now in its fifth year, shows no sign of easing and could lead to a "tipping" point for some carriers.

The S&P semiannual survey of the airline industry concluded that some low-cost carriers are able to remain profitable but that "2005 could become a possible tipping point for giants such as US Airways and Delta Airlines."

S&P said the major carriers, hit by soaring fuel costs that have exacerbated the slump since the September 11, 2001 attacks in the US, "can no longer withstand the massive losses they have sustained over the past four years."

The report said that while the major carriers are taking drastic steps to survive, "the largely profitable low-cost carriers are rapidly gaining market share and may be poised to take over the lion's share of the industry in the future."

Gerald R. Kleinfeld, Chandler - The Arizona Republic
May. 21, 2005 12:00 AM


If the America West Airlines merger took place in France, hundreds of thousands of Parisians would take to the streets in protest. The American Embassy would be stormed. In Germany, leading politicians would denounce foreign capitalist "locusts" for interfering in the domestic economy.

Why? It's Airbus vs. Boeing.

Airbus, European competitor of Boeing, hasn't sold a single A350, against 160 Boeing 787s. Airbus is in a huge battle with Boeing, which no longer manufactures a complete fleet and developed the 787 to stay in the business.

To defeat Boeing, Airbus needs to have a hit with the A350. Desperate for a first sale, Airbus puts up $250 million for the merger, and GE some of the rest. GE makes the engines for the A350. A few other A350 parts are also made in the United States, including the escape chute and the thrust-reversers in Phoenix. The merged airline must order 20 A350s. No planes, no merger.

US Airways, known for old aircraft, lost baggage and poor service, could not survive much longer after two bankruptcies. Even after cutbacks, it is a higher-cost carrier.

AWA faces problems, too - it is too small, but it is a more attractive takeover candidate because of low-cost operations. Both lines decided to risk the merger. About 8,000 employees will have to go, hopefully by attrition.

The merged airline will have to grow routes and find new customers to succeed. AWA's management thinks that it can make the new airline a winner.

Here is where the Airbus/Boeing battle comes in. AWA flies Airbus, and already has ordered a bunch of A330s, without money to pay for them.

However, the only way it can finance the merger is also to buy A350s and then find routes for them. They will "become the launch airline for the A350," according to the official statement. Airbus isn't selling the 350, it's giving it away.

This is a new page in the competition between Airbus and Boeing. Will Boeing now fund a merger between Malev (Hungarian) Airlines and Alitalia (Italian) Airlines in order to sell the 787? Money provided, of course, by Washington? Will the EU allow that? Will the new US Airways, bolstered by its heavy funding package, survive?

It's America West CEO Doug Parker's gamble, and some employees will lose out in order for the rest to hold on.

Phoenix may win. Boeing loses.

Airbus ‘in crisis’
Written by 7DAYS | Sunday, 15 May 2005


THE head of Airbus has admitted that the company is in crisis as a breakdown in relations between German and French shareholders blocked the appointment of his successor. Boardroom brinkmanship at Airbus’ parent company EADS has left both companies without permanent bosses and put the successful Franco-German alliance to an untimely test as France sets to vote on a new EU charter and arch-rival Boeing regains momentum.

Noel Forgeard, chief executiive of Airbus, wants to retain control over the France-based company as well as take on the co-CEO role at EADS, a move that would upset a delicate political power balance and has set alarm bells ringing among the group's shareholders. The secret of success for EADS so far has been to balance executive power, with a pair of chairmen, two CEOs and two main shareholders - in each case, one French and one German - and reporting lines that weave together the nationalities.

Forgeard, who is due to become co-chief executive at EADS, had wanted to continue running Airbus for a few weeks while a permanent successor was sought. But DaimlerChrysler, a German shareholder of Airbus, blocked the interim solution. “There was not enough trust from DaimlerChrysler to organise an interim solution of that sort,” M Forgeard said. Last, week, an EADS board meeting had been expected to confirm Forgeard and Thomas Enders, its chief of defence operations, as the group’s new joint chairmen. But their appointments were put on hold as discussions on a new management team ended in a stalemate.

"They have a case of nerves like never before," said Francis Tusa, editor of newsletter Defence Analysis, who believes Forgeard and ultimately EADS risk losing ground to Boeing if the dispute is not patched up quickly. "This is not the time for petty management fighting." Forgeard has been given until June 1 to sort out the mess. "We still want co-CEOs and to separate the management of Airbus and EADS," a source close to the German side said. "The overarching goal is to maintain a balance between the two sides of shareholders." Analysts speculate Forgeard may prevail or be forced out.

http://www.7days.ae/content/view/952/12/

United States warns of action on Airbus

Reuters

Washington :
The United States warned the European Union it would resume action at the World Trade Organisation if European governments provided loans to help Airbus develop a new aircraft.

"If additional subsidies are committed, we have said we will resume litigation through the WTO and that remains our position," a spokeswoman for the US Trade Representative's office said, responding to news that Airbus had requested loans from Britain to develop the twin-engine A350.

The United States and the EU suspended competing WTO cases over government aid for Airbus and Boeing in January in the hopes of reaching a negotiated settlement. However, they failed to achieve that by an April deadline.

Washington would still prefer to negotiate an agreement that eliminates aircraft subsidies, USTR spokeswoman Neena Moorjani said. In the meantime, "our position has been clear no new subsidies," she said.

"We're keen to get a decision by mid-June," Airbus UK spokesman Howard Berry said of the launch aid application to the UK government.

The aid decision would coincide with the Paris air show, where the rivalry between Airbus and Boeing usually takes centre stage. The EU said negotiations with the United States to avert a trade war were still under way.


http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/BusinessNF.asp?ArticleID=165796

Gerald R. Kleinfeld, Chandler - The Arizona Republic
May. 21, 2005 12:00 AM


If the America West Airlines merger took place in France, hundreds of thousands of Parisians would take to the streets in protest. The American Embassy would be stormed. In Germany, leading politicians would denounce foreign capitalist "locusts" for interfering in the domestic economy.

Why? It's Airbus vs. Boeing.

Airbus, European competitor of Boeing, hasn't sold a single A350, against 160 Boeing 787s. Airbus is in a huge battle with Boeing, which no longer manufactures a complete fleet and developed the 787 to stay in the business.

To defeat Boeing, Airbus needs to have a hit with the A350. Desperate for a first sale, Airbus puts up $250 million for the merger, and GE some of the rest. GE makes the engines for the A350. A few other A350 parts are also made in the United States, including the escape chute and the thrust-reversers in Phoenix. The merged airline must order 20 A350s. No planes, no merger.

US Airways, known for old aircraft, lost baggage and poor service, could not survive much longer after two bankruptcies. Even after cutbacks, it is a higher-cost carrier.

AWA faces problems, too - it is too small, but it is a more attractive takeover candidate because of low-cost operations. Both lines decided to risk the merger. About 8,000 employees will have to go, hopefully by attrition.

The merged airline will have to grow routes and find new customers to succeed. AWA's management thinks that it can make the new airline a winner.

Here is where the Airbus/Boeing battle comes in. AWA flies Airbus, and already has ordered a bunch of A330s, without money to pay for them.

However, the only way it can finance the merger is also to buy A350s and then find routes for them. They will "become the launch airline for the A350," according to the official statement. Airbus isn't selling the 350, it's giving it away.

This is a new page in the competition between Airbus and Boeing. Will Boeing now fund a merger between Malev (Hungarian) Airlines and Alitalia (Italian) Airlines in order to sell the 787? Money provided, of course, by Washington? Will the EU allow that? Will the new US Airways, bolstered by its heavy funding package, survive?

It's America West CEO Doug Parker's gamble, and some employees will lose out in order for the rest to hold on.

Phoenix may win. Boeing loses.

no, it's BOEING vs. AIRBUS.

why they think by airbus that they are stronger than boeing and made better airplanes?

that's not true.
as you see in the orders, there is no battle:
Airbus: 134 Orders
Boeing: 395 orders

and as you see at the orders of the a350 vs B787:
Airbus a350: 10 orders
BOEING 787: 255 orders

so, what is here the battle?

Yes, but why Boeing has only 65 firm orders? Does it mean that the companies don't really trust in this new aircraft, or maybe it's something else?

One thing is sure: the B787 is a brand new plane which should use a lots of innovations, whereas the A350 is just an A330 which will use the same innovations.

Anyway I flew yesterday on B737 in the morning and on A319 on the afternoon, and I'm really surpised by the superiority of the Airbus (comfort, noise...)

Yes, but why Boeing has only 65 firm orders? Does it mean that the companies don't really trust in this new aircraft, or maybe it's something else?

One thing is sure: the B787 is a brand new plane which should use a lots of innovations, whereas the A350 is just an A330 which will use the same innovations.

Anyway I flew yesterday on B737 in the morning and on A319 on the afternoon, and I'm really surpised by the superiority of the Airbus (comfort, noise...)

yes, the others are options, but options are gonna change in firm orders when the airliner that says.

Yes, but why Boeing has only 65 firm orders? Does it mean that the companies don't really trust in this new aircraft, or maybe it's something else?

One thing is sure: the B787 is a brand new plane which should use a lots of innovations, whereas the A350 is just an A330 which will use the same innovations.

Anyway I flew yesterday on B737 in the morning and on A319 on the afternoon, and I'm really surpised by the superiority of the Airbus (comfort, noise...)
yes, and i had flew 2 weeks ago from amsterdam to dubai with an boeing 777 and back from dubai to amsterdam in a a330. and that one of boeing is much better in the first class than by an a330

^That's nothing to do with the aircraft... It has to do with the airline.
What was the airline? Emirates?

One thing is sure: the B787 is a brand new plane which should use a lots of innovations, whereas the A350 is just an A330 which will use the same innovations.

The 350 was intended to be a 330 derivative, but that's no longer true.
Due to the fact that the 787 has been winning all the orders, airbus decided to make the 350 an all new aircraft. Obviously it's stilll on the early designs phase, so nobody knows exactly how it will be yet...
What's for sure is that it will have the same fuselage diameter as the 300/310/330/340's although it should have a thinner fuselage, so the interior is going to be slightly wider.

This is relatively recent news, because until a few days ago, the 350 was going to be a 330 derivative.
But some days ago airbus boss said it was going to be an all new plane.

It seems as the first delivery of the 350 will be in 2011... whereas the 787 first delivery will be in 2008.

yes, the others are options, but options are gonna change in firm orders when the airliner that says.

That could be years down the line, you can't count any options for any plane until they happen. :) :)

The 350 was intended to be a 330 derivative, but that's no longer true.
Due to the fact that the 787 has been winning all the orders, airbus decided to make the 350 an all new aircraft. Obviously it's stilll on the early designs phase, so nobody knows exactly how it will be yet...

WOW this is EXCELLENT news! Can you find any official press releases regarding it? :cheers: :cheers:

United States warns of action on Airbus

Thanks for posting this article griftre! :) :)

Boeing needs to shut its trap about these trade disputes and government funding. BOTH companies would lose out on massive funds if they take it to the WTO and they rule to cap all that cash.

Besides... why would Boeing complain? Their 787's whooping up right now, why do they care if an A350 is made? :) :) :) :) :) :)

Thanks for posting this article griftre! :) :)

Boeing needs to shut its trap about these trade disputes and government funding. BOTH companies would lose out on massive funds if they take it to the WTO and they rule to cap all that cash.

Besides... why would Boeing complain? Their 787's whooping up right now, why do they care if an A350 is made? :) :) :) :) :) :)

Although both have things to lose, Boeing knows it has the edge over Airbus in this battle. While Airbus was focusing on the huge jumbos, Boeing focused on mid-to small planes. Now that the 787 is huge hit they don't want Airbus to be even able to produce a plane to compete with it, especially with government loans.

If you were in charge of Boeing you'd do the same thing to protect your business and make sure the other guy doesn't tap into your (potential) customer base. So I wouldn't complain about them getting angry over this if they feel it is that important to their survival.

Although both have things to lose, Boeing knows it has the edge over Airbus in this battle. While Airbus was focusing on the huge jumbos, Boeing focused on mid-to small planes. Now that the 787 is huge hit they don't want Airbus to be even able to produce a plane to compete with it, especially with government loans.

If you were in charge of Boeing you'd do the same thing to protect your business and make sure the other guy doesn't tap into your (potential) customer base. So I wouldn't complain about them getting angry over this if they feel it is that important to their survival.

But the thing is, both have a LOT to lose if the WTO has a hand in this dispute, and we're talking tens of billions of dollars and euros in loans/subsidies/etc to both companies.

And Boeing isn't just "surviving" here either... they do quite well.
:) :) :)

Although both have things to lose, Boeing knows it has the edge over Airbus in this battle. While Airbus was focusing on the huge jumbos, Boeing focused on mid-to small planes. Now that the 787 is huge hit they don't want Airbus to be even able to produce a plane to compete with it, especially with government loans.

If you were in charge of Boeing you'd do the same thing to protect your business and make sure the other guy doesn't tap into your (potential) customer base. So I wouldn't complain about them getting angry over this if they feel it is that important to their survival.

I think Boeing is preparing a plane like the A380. But they don't want tell that (like they were working on the B787 when they pretend to prepare the sonic cruiser).
Since 10-15 years everybody know that the companies must use large hubs with large planes to win money, and I can't trust the rules of the game changed.

Using lager planes is more profitable because the cost per seat is lower, and as we are talking about long-haul planes its no big deal to have 2 daily flights between london and tokyo with a big plane than 5 daily with smaller ones as nobody really cares to wait 6-9 hours for the next flight than just 3-5 hours.

(...)So does the 787 now face a more serious rival?

Analysts were skeptical of the "all-new" claim. But certainly a launch at the Paris Air Show next month seems inevitable.

Air Transport World, an industry publication, quoted Leahy as promising "triple digit" firm orders for the A350 at the air show.


"Since December, we improved width, range, seat costs, economics," Leahy was quoted as saying Wednesday to the aviation trade press in Toulouse, France, home of Airbus.

"We changed the aircraft three or four times in the past 90 days. We achieved an eight-ton weight reduction through the use of new technologies."

"This is an all-new aircraft," he said.

Previously, the A350 had been pitched as a derivative of the Airbus A330 — with the same fuselage but new wings and engines — up against the all-new 787.

Leahy's assertion that Airbus had increased the airplane's "width" briefly raised the possibility of a new fuselage, which would truly mean an entirely new airplane.

But later an Airbus spokesman punctured that idea. There is no new fuselage, the spokesman clarified — the A350 will have the same cross-section as the A330.

But the cabin "lining is now thinner, so the internal cabin width is improved a bit for passengers," the spokesman said.

Nevertheless, though the claims to newness may be exaggerated, Leahy must announce orders at the Paris show, less than four weeks away. It seems unlikely he is claiming more than he can then deliver.

Emirates is widely expected to take 50 A350s. An order from the new US Airways puts his triple-digit goal within reach.

"I could easily imagine that Leahy shows up in Paris with A350 commitments to at least 100," said Solon. "The A350 stands to be a serious program." (...)

Source: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2002281794_airbus20.html

Yes, but why Boeing has only 65 firm orders? Does it mean that the companies don't really trust in this new aircraft, or maybe it's something else?


Get your facts straight. Boeing has now 240 orders firmed for just this year with many more to come:

http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/index.cfm

Source: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2002281794_airbus20.html

FABULOUS!!! :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

I'm so glad Airbus has realized the potential of this market (probably because Boeing's been shoveling in orders) and are really gearing up this A350 project!!! Things just got a LOT more exciting, I can't wait to see what they're cooking up! :cheers: :cheers:

Get your facts straight. Boeing has now 240 orders firmed for just this year with many more to come:

http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/index.cfm
i said it always! boeing have more firm orders than airbus!

The Sunday Times
May 29, 2005
Dominic O'Connell & Andrew Porter

AIRBUS is demanding £379m of British government aid to help launch its A350 aeroplane — a far greater sum than previously thought — and is urging ministers to approve the funding in a fortnight or risk losing high-tech jobs to Germany or Spain.

The amount will be far more than other partner countries — France, Germany and Spain — have to contribute and could trigger a transatlantic trade war if, as expected, the aid is agreed by the government.

Officials in Washington said that approval of launch aid for the A350 would lead to immediate litigation against Europe by America at the World Trade Organisation, pitting Peter Mandelson, the European Union’s trade commissioner, against his American counterparts.

Labour made a virtue in its election manifesto of helping the other new Airbus plane, the A380 super-jumbo, and wants to be seen as backing British manufacturing industry at a time when established names such as MG Rover have gone under. Ministers fear thousands of jobs could be lost without the A350 launch aid.

Airbus wants the governments of Britain, France, Germany and Spain to sign up for the A350 by the start of the Paris air show on June 13, when the planemaker plans to announce 100 orders for the aircraft, including a blockbuster contract for 50 from Emirates, the fast-growing Gulf carrier.

Britain makes the wings for all Airbus planes at Broughton and Filton, and directly employs 13,000 people. But senior executives said that if Britain did not approve the launch aid, the A350 wing work could move to Germany or Spain. Industry analysts said such a move could damage Britain’s chances of winning more wing work; the A350 wings will be the first to be made of a new composite material, regarded as the likely choice for all future civilian aircraft.

The tight deadline for approving the aid has led to a furious lobbying battle in Whitehall. It is understood that the Department of Trade and Industry has been told the money is available for it to use in this way.

Tony Blair, who last year opened a factory to make wings for the A380 at Broughton, is thought to support the plan, but Treasury officials have yet to be convinced the aid is justified. The Treasury will have a big say and this week Gordon Brown’s close adviser Shriti Vadera will receive the proposal. Her advice to Brown is considered crucial.

Mark Tami, MP for Alyn and Deeside, who has led the lobbying for the aid, said: “Ministers have in the past given money to bail out unsuccessful British companies, but in our Airbus factories we have real success stories we should build on.”

European governments have in the past provided up to a third of the cost of Airbus projects, with the money being paid back with interest, but only if the plane is a commercial success. Airbus has paid back more than it has received in aid, and Britain most recently approved a £530m amount to fund the design and construction of the A380’s wings.

A Boeing spokesman yesterday accused Airbus of “blackmail” by suggesting that Britain could lose the wing factories.

Airbus refused to comment on the aid application.

The Australian
May 27, 2005
Steve Creedy

THE battle between Airbus and Boeing promises to dominate next month's Paris Airshow with the double-decker A380 aircraft forming a looming backdrop to the expected launch of the mid-size A350.

Airbus's top salesman, John Leahy, has set the pace by predicting the European manufacturer will be able to announce 100 orders for the plane.

Buyers are rumoured to include Emirates and the new US Airways-America West conglomerate.

News reports from the US suggest Airbus has loaned the merged airline $US250 million ($328 million) as part of an order for 20 A350s.

Airbus's Australian representative, Ted Porter, confirmed that Mr Leahy had told a recent technical briefing that Airbus expected to go to Le Bourget with up to 100 firm A350 orders.

But he could not confirm speculation about potential buyers or whether the aircraft would be officially launched at the show.

Mr Porter said Airbus had previously been saying it expected 100 orders by the end of the year but Mr Leahy now expected that to be in the "triple digit" range of 100 to 200 aircraft.

"The important thing he said, of course, was that Airbus's firm orders mean that contracts have been signed and pre-delivery payments have been made," he said.

Airbus is significantly revamping the A350 as it touts the aircraft as a competitor to Boeing's 787 "Dreamliner".

It claims the new plane will deliver fuel efficiency gains of up to 15 per cent with a similar reduction in maintenance costs and a range of 8200 nautical miles.

Mr Porter said the European manufacturer had calculated that a 258-seat, two-class A350-800 would deliver savings of about $US22.5 million a year over 15 years compared with a 232-seat 787-800.

However, Airbus is coming from behind as it tries to catch up to Boeing's already launched 787.

The 787 is a new aircraft that also promises significant efficiency improvements,

The 787 family includes three aircraft seating 200 to 300 passengers that fly between 3500 and 8500 nautical miles using 20 per cent less fuel than today's comparable aircraft. A new interior will offer higher humidity levels, wider seats and aisles and larger windows.

The US manufacturer already has 237 orders and commitments from 19 customers, including those in key markets such as North America and Japan.

Boeing Australia spokesman Ken Morton said a further 430 planes were under active proposals.

"I would emphasise straight off that we are not holding orders off for Paris - we are announcing as soon as we can," Mr Morton said.

"We simply don't have a policy of hoarding announcements to be made at the airshow."

He said Boeing believed Airbus had misread the market for the 787 and was now scrambling to catch up.

Boeing also this week launched a long-range freighter version of its popular 777 after receiving five orders from Air France.

The airline has also yet to rule out a new version of the 747 to take on the A380.

Mr Morton said the US manufacturer had been actively canvassing options for the advanced 747 and there had been "a healthy interest in it".

"We're going to make a decision mid-year on a 747 Advanced which will use 787 technology on it," Mr Morton said. "We see a market for about 300 of those planes and it has the advantage of just slotting into existing fleets and airports."

Airbus has confirmed the A380 will be at the show but not whether it will fly.

^Cheese Mmmmm, sorry but

this is always bullshit: they said by airbus that the think there are coming great orders for the A350. but there were no orders the last time.

^Cheese Mmmmm, sorry but this is always bullshit: they said by airbus that the think there are coming great orders for the A350. but there were no orders the last time.

True, Airbus apparently came out prematurely on the Emirates A350 sale and maybe a couple of others, but it appears to be because this aircraft is still in the early stages of design. These carriers probably want a more "solid" idea of what they're ordering before they announce anything.

At the least, [I know you're pro-Boeing, but] you have to admit it was a smart move by Airbus to invest more money in this project to make it an all-new aircraft instead of the A330 derivative it was originally going to be. I think if Airbus announces some major orders for this plane during the airshow and can present a more concrete design to other potential customers, it'll surely take off in popularity! :) :) :) :) :)

why is airbus always making the same planes of boeing. they do always the same thing.

boeing is gonna make the xtremely efficient plane: the 787, than comes airbus with the A350.

Boeing has new colors this year. then comes airbus with new colors too.

Boeing has made the 767, then has airbus build the A330

Boeing has made the 777, Airbus has build the A340.

i think airbus cannot make own idea's...

Airbus has made the A300 simply the first twin-jet widebody, then Boeing came up with the 767, just keep your big mouth shut, you look pathetic!

yes i that true? i thought always that the 767 an own idea was of boeing but than boeing do the same of what i write of airbus.

first A300 came in 1973 or something

@ New-york Yankee: I think Boeing is a great compagny, which can be proud of these planes.. but what you say is just not exactly true (and I'm sure you know that).

In the 80', airbus was a very small company. How it could become the first constructor of the world without inovation, in front of the giant Boeing?

The major innovations of Airbus come from the "small" A320 with:
- The electric control
- A single model of cockpit for all the planes- a pilot of A318 can use an A340 without starting again a training from the begining, and that's impossible on Boeing's planes.

That's what boeing is know proposing on the 737NG with a delay of.... more than 10 years! (finally, they must think that was a good idea....???)

In fact, the last major innovation of Boeing is the B747, in the 60's. Maybe the next one will be the B787, 50 years later. I hope that, but it's not flying for the moment.

I hope the A350 will be better, too... it's a good point for competition, and that will make work the engineers of Boeing even more. That's good for everyone. ;)

why is airbus always making the same planes of boeing. they do always the same thing.

boeing is gonna make the xtremely efficient plane: the 787, than comes airbus with the A350.

Boeing has new colors this year. then comes airbus with new colors too.

Boeing has made the 767, then has airbus build the A330

Boeing has made the 777, Airbus has build the A340.

i think airbus cannot make own idea's...

lol,
perhaps being convenient, lol or perhaps to snub Boeing at its game.

Boeing has made the 777, Airbus has build the A340.

You're wrong my friend!

Put it the other way around: Airbus made the 340(93/94) and then Boeing built the 777(95).

oke i see. i had just checked the airbus and boeing site, but that's true about the 777.
boeing is gonna make the xtremely efficient plane: the 787, than comes airbus with the A350.

this is true and

Boeing has new colors this year. then comes airbus with new colors too.

double post!

ow shit, a double post!

ow shit, a double post!
You are right about one point: B777 is a fantastic plane. Maybe the best in the world today. But that's not a reason to bash Airbus as you do.

After all, Boeing decided to build B777, because Airbus built A330/A340.
It's the same way with B787/A350 and I hope boeing to build B797 in the futur.

In fact, the last major innovation of Boeing is the B747, in the 60's. Maybe the next one will be the B787, 50 years later. I hope that, but it's not flying for the moment.


The 737 was also an innovation as it was the first of its kind. The 777 was an innovation as it was the first plane to ever be completely designed by computer.

why is airbus always making the same planes of boeing. they do always the same thing.

Yes well, that's how companies act. If one makes a newer better aircraft for a certain size market, the other must respond or face revenue loss.

You can hate Airbus, but it's not like the board of directors is sitting in an evil underground layer in Toulouse thinking "Hmm, how can we copy Boeing's next plane? :) " It's nothing personal, it's just business. :cheers:

Yes well, that's how companies act. If one makes a newer better aircraft for a certain size market, the other must respond or face revenue loss.

Yes that's true

i can better stop with tose things. i didn't like it that airbus has created good planes in just 35 years. and i also hate it. but it's also great to see a small company grow in 35 years into a great nr. 2 supplier in commercial planes.

so i keep it for myself that i hate airbus.

I love Airbus' planes. They have single handily revitalised the whole industry. If it wasn't for them Boeing would be releasing the 747/500 (now available with new colour curtains!!).

Honestly tho boeing's prob was that it got cocky. It just sat there and did nothing for a very long time. Finally now after Airbus is the leader in the industry is it trying to do something new. Still i think they are in serious trouble.

I can't wait to see A350 in USAirways colors.

Boeing would be releasing the 747/500

Boeing would maybe releasing the 747 advanced at paris airshow. witch in your way called the 747-500. witch has:

- New engines (the General Electric GEnx) the same as the 787 but than smaller diameter fan.
- greater wings.
- New cockpit
- greater range (8500 NM)
- capability to reach a passenger high of 448 passengers in 3 or 4 classes. what means, 500 pas. in 2 classes.
- Longer body (than the 747 would be the longest airplane in the world).

and much more....

only 1 difference bitween the 747adv and a380 is the max passengers.
by the 747adv: 448 pass.
by the a380: 490-555 pass.

and than is the 747adv 18 percent cheaper than the a380.

by the a380: 490-555 pass.
that's i've heard from some guys from a 'professional' aviation forum. and this is the true.

and than is the 747adv 18 percent cheaper than the a380.

see this from www.airliners.net:

Let's say the incremental revenue is
first class revenue is -7,000 USD
biz class revenue is 20,000 USD
economy class is 75,000 USD
which means about an extra ~88,000 USD per flight.

But the fuel alone is an additional 20,000 gallons, which at around 3 USD/gal is about 60,000 USD. It is more complicated than this (e.g. labour, depreciation, etc) but if that is really how they are outfitting the seating, I wonder good the economics will be.

I'm not A380 bashing. My point is that the seat arrangements are probably different than the above.


what do you think of this, guys?

by the 747adv: 448 pass.
by the a380: 490-555 pass.

Let's show this as it really is, and not from a biased point of view:

B747adv: 448 pax
A380: 555 pax

or, if you like:

B747adv: 395-448 pax
A380: 490-555 pax

As for the rest, we will see it when/if the B747adv is lauched.
For now, nobody even knows the specifications... It's all speculation.

PS: Airliners.net is the website with the highest percentage of airbus bashers in the world. ;)

so i keep it for myself that i hate airbus.

Yeah... I may be a bit Airbus biased, because of the A380 which is truly awesome, and how they've been the "underdog" for so many years and it's wonderful to see them take it to Boeing, but overall, I enjoy having [at least] two major commercial aircraft manufacturers, because competition spurs better ideas and products from both. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

I can't wait to see A350 in USAirways colors.

... and I can't wait to just plain SEE AN A350! :rofl: :rofl:

I'm hoping we'll get some nice renderings out of the Paris Airshow if Airbus "officially" launches the programme as they said they would. :) :) :)

For now, nobody even knows the specifications... It's all speculation.
follow this link:
PUSH HERE (http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/2141155/)

we will see it when/if the B747adv
we'll see it at paris air show!!!

follow this link:
PUSH HERE (http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/2141155/)

That's speculative has i've said.
Nothing is for sure yet. Boeing just gave some hints.
It may even not be lauched at all!

It may even not be lauched at all!

If there's even a single shred of intelligence at Boeing, they won't launch a 747 Advanced. Case-in-point: The initial A350 plan, to have it just be an A330 derivative. When put up against the all-new 787, Airbus couldn't get any sales. NOW that they've supposidly designed an all-new aircraft, they expect to put up triple-digit launch orders in Paris.

There's no market for a plane between the 500+ seat A380 and the 380 to 419 seat A340-600. And personally, I think an "Advanced" would tarnish the proud tradition of the 747, from being the queen of the skies and wonder of engineering, turned thoughtless copy to compete with an even larger plane.

Emirates, Qatar Airways To Place Orders For Up To 120 Aircraft

Emirates News Agency (WAM) - 01/06/2005


Emirates and Qatar Airways the two fast-growing Gulf-based carriers are set to announce a number of firm orders that could add up to somewhere between 100 to 120 aircraft, aviation officials said.

The announcement will be made at the forthcoming Paris Air Show to be held from June 13 to 19, according to a Gulf News report from Tokyo.

While Emirates is set to order a combination of A350s and Boeing's ultra-long range B777-200LRs, Qatar Airways is set to order as many as 50 to 60 B787s.

Following Emirates' recent revelation, Qatar Airways is also set to sign a major firm order in Paris. Akbar Al Baker, Qatar Airways' chief executive said on Monday, "Yes, we will make a major announcement at the Paris Air Show. I am not at liberty to reveal anything further, but it is going to be big." This would be the biggest shift for all-Airbus fleet operator Qatar Airways. Fifty B787s would cost the airline more than $6.25 billion at list price.

More than 300 officials representing 265 airlines and companies gathered in Tokyo to assess the health of the global aviation industry at the 61st annual general meeting of IATA. Airbus and Boeing officials were seen making last-minute efforts on possible orders. An aviation official close to these negotiations told Gulf News that Boeing's 787 Dreamliner has lost out against its new rival as Emirates has decided on Airbus A350.

"Emirates has decided on A350, not the B787," he said.

Airline officials kept mum on the details of the announcement.

They hinted that it could split its firm orders and keep some reserved for Dubai Airshow.

"We might make an announcement at the Paris Air Show, we might also make another announcement at Dubai Airshow later this year," said Tim Clark, president of Emirates airline, without giving any more details. "We are talking to both the manufacturers on our future requirements."

Airbus Set To Announce 100 Orders For A350

AFX News Ltd. - Forbes.com
06.01.2005, 08:58 PM


PARIS (AFX) - Airbus Industrie is poised to announce around 100 orders for its new A350 plane - its direct competitor to the Boeing 787 - at the Paris air show in mid-June, La Tribune newspaper said in its Thursday edition.

The French economic daily said that among the companies which were placing orders for the A350 were Middle Eastern carriers, in particular Qatar Airways, which is expected to order around 60 planes.

Airbus is hoping to sign some 200 firm orders by the end of the year for its A350 plane, which is a more advanced version of its A330, but with modifications to improve range.

Boeing has so far registered 261 orders for its 787, which is to be in service in 2008. Airbus currently only has 10 firm orders for the A350, which is expected to be in service by 2010.

Earlier on Wednesday Airbus said it was up to six months behind schedule in delivering its new superjumbo A380 aircraft to airlines due to production problems, a delay that could entail financial penalties.

There's no market for a plane between the 500+ seat A380 and the 380 to 419 seat A340-600.
there is a market.
as an airliner now wants a plane of the size bitween 400 and 500 they can only choose for a very expensive airbus. then they can choose for a efficient, very cheap, fast (2% faster than the a380 and a340), and greater range airplane. so there is a market and i know that. as you know me, you know that it's true.

I also think that there's a market.
It's a big gap between the 360-380 seats of the 346/773 and the 555 seats of the 380.

(2% faster than the a380 and a340)

That's not true... and above all, quite irrelevant.

A340-200/300 speed - 0.82 mach
A340-500/600 speed - 0.83 mach
B777 speed - 0.84 mach
A380 speed - 0.85 mach
B747-400 speed -0.855 mach
B747-Adv - 0.86 mach

0.86/0.85 = 1.0117 ~ 1% faster. That's irrelevant, believe me. ;)

Faster than a 340-200/300, yes, for sure! Than a 380... although slightly faster, that 1% is irrelevant.
A 16 hours (super long haul) trip on an A380 would take 15h50min on the B747adv. Lol! That's what i call irrelevant. ;) (I remind you planes don't stick to the schedule on long flights like those (can be even 2 hours earlier, or lome time delayed, depending on the winds), so those 10 minutes are completely irrelevant).

so is Qatar Airways ordering 350 or 787?? one of your article say 787 and the last one say 350.

Airbus Upgrades A350-Jet Proposal To Compete With Boeing's 787

By Andrea Rothman


June 2 (Bloomberg) -- Airbus SAS, the world's largest commercial planemaker, said it's upgrading the proposed A350 to make the aircraft more competitive with Boeing Co.'s 787, which has won orders from long-time Airbus customers.

The Toulouse, France-based company is now offering what amounts to a new plane, instead of a derivative of the older A330, with new engines, wings from composite materials for the first time and the overall content 60 percent advanced materials, said Chief Commercial Officer John Leahy yesterday in an interview.

Boeing, based in Chicago, has won every contest between the 787 and A350 since January, snagging buyers including traditional Airbus customers Northwest Airlines Corp. and ACE Aviation Holdings Inc.'s Air Canada. Boeing has 261 orders and commitment from 21 customers for the 787, while Airbus has one order for 10 A350s.. The planemakers see demand for as many as 3,500 planes worth $400 billion in the 250- to 300-seat category over 20 years.

"This is the fourth attempt by Airbus at a competitive response to the 787,'' said Richard Aboulafia, vice president at the Teal Group, a Fairfax, Virginia-based consulting company. "The fourth time could be the charm, but it's tough because Boeing's 787 is all-new and extremely ambitious technologically.''

Airbus got clearance from its parent European Aeronautic Defense & Space Co. in December to market a 250-seat plane based largely on the existing A330-200, with development costs of 4 billion ($4.9 billion), up from an initial estimate of 2 billion euros. The modified proposal has the same estimated development costs and Airbus is seeking loans from the U.K., France, Germany and Spain for a third of the expense.

WTO Dispute

The U.S. and European Union are suing each other at the World Trade Organization over subsidies to Airbus and Boeing in the biggest clash in the WTO's 10-year history. Boeing lost its lead as the world's top seller of commercial jets to Airbus two years ago.

Airbus is also grappling with problems in getting its 555-seat A380 into service on time. Yesterday Airbus said initial deliveries of the plane will be delayed as much as half a year, opening the way for customers including Singapore Airlines Ltd. to demand compensation.

Airbus's first answer to the 787, which Boeing proposed to airlines in December 2003, was to adapt the A330-200 to use the same efficient new engines designed for the 787. By mid-2004, Airbus was promising new systems and more composites. By December, the plane included new engines, systems and 35 percent new materials.

Newest A350

The fourth incarnation brings the promise of 60 percent advanced materials, 37 percent of which composites and 23 percent new aluminum lithium alloys. The rear fuselage as well and wing would be made from composites, and new cabin comforts include bigger windows and special interior lighting to match Boeing developments.

The A350 is no longer a derivative, said Leahy. It's a new jet with 90 percent new manufacturer parts, though the fuselage diameter is unchanged. He expects EADS to approve building the plane by the middle of June.

"I'd been saying I expected orders for 100 at the Paris Air Show,'' said Leahy. "Now I think that will be higher, based on discussions I've had with airlines.'' Leahy met with airline executives May 30 and 31 in Tokyo at the meeting of the International Air Transport Association.

Airbus would deliver the A350-8 by 2010 and the bigger, A350-9 six months later. Boeing's 787-8 enters service in 2008.

Boeing's 787-8 is designed to offer a 30 percent improvement in operating economics over the 767 it replaces, thanks to new engines from General Electric Co. and Rolls-Royce Plc and to extensive use of lighter-weight composite materials.

Plane Comparisons

Boeing doesn't offer comparisons between its 787 and Airbus's A350, said Boeing spokeswoman Yvonne Leach, because the design hasn't been made final and it hasn't committed to production. "We compare the 787 to the Airbus A330-200,'' she said.

Emirates, the biggest Arab Airline, and Qatar, the state airline of the Persian Gulf country, are among potential customers for the A350, Airbus says, as are operating lessors International Lease Finance Corp. and General Electric Capital Aviation Services.

Emirates, which is buying 45 of Airbus's A380s, may purchase as many as 60 A350s or 787s, Emirates President Tim Clark said May 17. Qatar Chief Executive Akbar Al Baker said in April he will order as many as 60 planes by mid-June.

Airbus's A350-9 version would seat 259 passengers. The A350- 800 model would seat 253 in three classes, flying 8,560 nautical miles. That compares with 245 seats and range of 6,670 nautical miles in its existing A330-200.

Airbus said the higher seat count, which it got by moving back the rear bulkhead and crew rest area further back, will give the A350 17 percent better fuel efficiency per seat than its own A330- 200 and 4 percent better efficiency per seat than the 787-8 model, which seats 223.

Airbus's bigger A350-900 model would compete with Boeing's 787- 9, with 259 seats flying 8,300 nautical miles, and Boeing's 777- 200ER, which carries 301 passengers 7,700 nautical miles, as well as replacement plane for DC10s, MD11s and Airbus's own A340-300 models, Leahy said.

so is Qatar Airways ordering 350 or 787?? one of your article say 787 and the last one say 350.

I believe the latter of those two articles I posted was more recent, so I took that as QA being an A350 buyer. But both use language that sounds unsure, so I guess what I'm saying is I don't have a clue! :)

...so there is a market and i know that. as you know me, you know that it's true.

... Oh we know you alright. We know you VERY WELL! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[B][SIZE=4]<snip> Qatar Airways is set to order as many as 50 to 60 B787s.
<snip>


Go 787!!!!!!! I like to read this great news. :)

Emirates key to Airbus's 'pole position'
The European aircraft maker hopes the Dubai airline will choose the A350 over rival Boeing's 787
By KEVIN DONE
03 June 2005
Financial Times

Noel Forgeard, Airbus chief executive, will visit Dubai this weekend for talks with Emirates, the fast-growing Middle East airline and one of the European aircraft maker's key customers worldwide.

He will have a crowded agenda. He must seek to explain embarrassing delays in the delivery schedule for the A380 superjumbo while seeking to secure vital launch orders for the group's planned new long-range, mid-market aircraft, the A350.

Mr Forgeard is fighting for his reputation and record at Airbus. During the past seven years he has led the European aircraft maker to a position of narrow supremacy over its US rival Boeing but for months now he has been embroiled in a damaging internal struggle for management control at the Airbus parent company, EADS.

For weeks he has been due to be confirmed by the EADS board as joint chief executive, moving up from Airbus, but last night the group's Franco-German shareholders were still struggling to reach agreement on the new management structure.

Emirates is by far the biggest customer for the A380, accounting for close to a third of the order book for the world's biggest passenger jet.

The airline is basing much of its dramatic planned growth in the next decade on the 555-seat superjumbo, but Airbus was forced to admit this week that initial deliveries were going to be delayed by up to six months.

At the same time Airbus is desperately seeking the crucial initial orders for the A350, so that it can announce the industrial launch for the project, ideally at the Paris Airshow in two weeks' time.

The A350 is being developed in haste to compete with Boeing's 787 Dreamliner, which is rapidly building an impressive order backlog and looks set to win back market leadership for Boeing this year, measured by new orders, for the first time since 2000.

Airbus has outsold Boeing in five of the past six years and has delivered more aircraft in each of the past two years, but there is a growing sense in the civil aerospace industry that the US group is finally staging a comeback, led by the 787.

John Leahy, Airbus chief commercial officer and the group's "super-salesman" who has driven the group's sales success for more than a decade, has long been hopeful that the breakthrough A350 orders would be ready to announce in Paris. Yesterday he told the Bloomberg news agency: "I'd been saying I expected orders for 100 (A350s) at the Paris Airshow. Now I think that will be higher based on discussions I've had with airlines."

An Airbus spokesman yesterday confirmed the target for more than 100 A350 orders at the airshow.

If the goal is to be met Emirates will again be crucial in shaping the European aircraft maker's fortunes.

It is in negotiation for an order of about 50 medium-capacity, long-range aircraft and has been pitting the A350 against two derivatives of the Boeing 777 as well as against the Dreamliner.

An executive close to the talks said yesterday that "the A350 is in pole position".

In addition to Emirates, Airbus is still hopeful of securing key launch orders for the A350 from Qatar Airways, another important fast-growing Middle East customer and also a buyer of the A380, as well as from the leading aircraft leasing companies ILFC and Gecas.

To date the only commitment made to the A350 has come from Spain's Air Europa for 10 aircraft.

Mr Forgeard will have to be at his persuasive best in Dubai. Several of the target airlines on the Airbus hit-list for the A350 have already opted for the Boeing 787, including Northwest Airlines of the US and Air Canada, and Airbus must register important wins soon, if the controversial project is to be launched.

Airbus Says A350 Ready To Take On 787
Second Version Will Challenge 777, P-I Told

By James Wallace
Seattle Post-Intelligencer
June 3, 2005


TOKYO -- With the order count for Boeing's new 787 soaring, John Leahy of Airbus is heading for the Paris Air Show later this month ready to close the gap with his longtime foe.

A series of design changes during the last three months to the A350 are nearly complete, and, after a slow start, Airbus finally has the plane that customers say they want, said Leahy, chief commercial officer at Airbus and its bulldog sales chief.

Not only is he going after Boeing's 787 with one version of the A350, but he's prepared to take on Boeing's 777-200 with a second and bigger A350.

"I'm now getting an airplane out there that is more than competitive with the 787, and you will see orders very soon," he said in an interview this week at the annual meeting here of the International Air Transport Association, or IATA. The group represents some 270 international airlines.

Leahy said at least four airlines will announce orders for more than 100 A350s at the air show, which begins June 13. The bulk of those are expected to come from Emirates, for as many as 50 planes, although Leahy refused to identify any customers.

It's possible that by year's end Airbus could have 200 orders for the A350, Leahy said, but after what befell Boeing last year he did not want to make a flat-out prediction. Boeing executives had confidently predicted 200 orders for the 787 by the end of 2004, then had to explain why the company fell well short of that target.

During the first half of this year, however, the 787 order book has surged. Boeing now has 266 orders and commitments from 21 customers for the 787, and sources say more 787 orders will be announced either just before or during the air show.

One key customer for either the 787 or A350 that won't be announcing an order at the air show is Singapore Airlines, Boeing's biggest 777 operator and also the first airline that will take delivery of the Airbus A380 superjumbo late next year.

Singapore Chief Executive Chew Choon Seng said last year he was very interested in the 787 but wanted to wait to consider the new Airbus.

"The specifications and design targets for the A350 are being crystallized right now," Chew said in an interview this week. "Airbus is just about to finalize the version they will offer us to best match our requirements."

One factor that works in favor of the fuel-efficient 787 and A350 is the "stubbornly high price of fuel," Chew said. "That makes both propositions more attractive right now. But a lot will depend, at the end of the day, on how much it will cost to own and operate. We are waiting to hear what Airbus presents. If they price the A350 attractively enough, we would take a look."

Chew said Singapore Airlines will issue a request for proposals to Boeing and Airbus in a few months and could have a decision by the "turn of the year."

The 787 and A350 are twin-engine midsize jets.

When Airbus announced late last year that it would offer the A350-800 and the A350-900 to customers, they were presented as derivatives of the A330-200 and the bigger A330-300, but with a new and improved wing, greater use of lightweight composites and with the fuel-efficient engines being developed for the 787.

Although the fuselage cross-section of the A350 remains the same as that of the A330, the inside of the fuselage has been revised to provide more room for passengers as well as more seats, Leahy said. By moving the aft pressure bulkhead and relocating the crew rest under the cockpit, the A350-800 will have about 15-18 more seats than the A330-200, Leahy said, and about 30 more seats than the 787-8. The bigger A350-900 is also gaining seats over the A330-300 with the addition of a couple fuselage frames.

Boeing plans three versions of the 787 -- a short-range 787-7, the long-range 787-8 and 787-9, which will be bigger.

Even before the recent changes, the A350-800 and A350-900 were bigger than the 787-8 and 787-9. In a two-class configuration, the 787-9 will seat 258 passengers, or 35 more than the 787-8

Emirates had wanted Boeing to stretch the 787-9 even further, and when Boeing would not, Emirates decided to go with the A350.

Boeing does not want to make the 787-9 too big or it would be competing against its 300-seat 777-200.

"Boeing argues they have a little more headroom on their plane, so we changed the shape of the sidewall to have similar width," Leahy said of the recent A350 changes.

The A350-800, with more seats than the 787-8, will be able to fly about 300 miles farther than the Boeing plane with about 4 percent lower fuel burn per seat and lower maintenance cost per seat, Leahy said. The cash operating costs to the airline per seat will be less than for the 787-8, as will the plane's empty weight per seat, he said.

And not only does the A350-900 beat the 787-9 on any seat-cost comparison, but it is also beats the 777-200, Leahy said.

"We have about same number of seats, and I can fly about same range, within a couple hundred miles, but burn 30 percent less fuel and I'm doing it with a much quieter airplane," Leahy said of the A350-900 versus the 777-200.

Scott Carson, Boeing's jetliner sales chief, said he's not worried about the latest A350 changes.

"We are happy, from both a 787 and 777 point of view, with the tactic they have chosen," he said in an interview at the same airline conference in Tokyo that Leahy attended.

"We think we can hold our own in any toe-to-toe competition."

Taking on the 787 as well as the 777 with the A350 represents a big switch in the Airbus strategy, Carson said.

"We would be pretty happy with that as a 777 competitor," Boeing's Carson said. "The 777 is still preferred by passengers. It is roomy inside and has high ceilings."

Moving the crew rest below the cockpit as Airbus did on the A350 eats up valuable cargo space, Carson said.

"From a 787 view, that's neat because our plane has huge cargo volumes," Carson said. "And from a 777 view, that's an interesting competitive place to be (for Airbus and the A350) because we have the cargo market."

Airbus has lost two recent high-profile campaigns to Boeing that it had been counting on to gain momentum for the A350.

Northwest, the biggest Airbus customer in the United States, rejected the A350 and ordered the 787, even though it operates a growing fleet of A330s.

Air Canada, another important Airbus customer, also rejected the A350 in favor of the 787.

Leahy said if Airbus had been able to offer the A350 in its present form, those campaigns, and others won by the 787, might have turned out different.

"We have been listening to the airlines and going through the design loops," Leahy said.

"Our customers said we should have done this a year ago. But that's water over the dam."

Bring it on, counters Boeing's Carson.

LOT Eyes Up Airbus' A350

By Andrew Kureth & Agnieszka Barteczko
Warsaw Business Journal
June 6, 2005


Contrary to previous rumors, PLL LOT is not considering the purchase of the Airbus A330 but its A350 model.

The airline has to make up its mind as to the investment in new machines by the end of this month. PLL LOT president Marek Grabarek revealed that the favorites are the Airbus A350 and the Boeing B787 Dreamliner. The supervisory board must accept the final choice.

The A350 is a project that Airbus has been trying to sell since December 2004. It is meant to be a response to Boeing's 787. The newest technologies will be applied in constructing the plane, including those used in the A380, the biggest passenger plane in the world. The Boeing 787 has similar parameters to the Airbus, but the American producer says its plane will use 20 percent less fuel.

If the Polish airline decides to buy the Airbus A350 it will be the first order placed for this plane. The contract's value varies from $1-5 (z?.3.4-17) billion, depending on the number of planes ordered. If PLL LOT chooses Boeing, they will also be one of the first in the queue.

EADS To Press On With Development Of A350

The Associated Press
June 8, 2005


The parent company of Airbus vowed Wednesday to press ahead with development of the mid-sized A350 jet to compete with Boeing Co.'s 787 Dreamliner, amid a simmering trade dispute over subsidies to the trans-Atlantic rivals.

European Aeronautic Defence and Space Co. said its board had "confirmed its willingness to proceed towards the full industrial launch of the program with its partner BAE Systems by the end of September."

EADS owns 80 percent of Toulouse, France-based Airbus and Britain's BAE Systems PLC owns the remaining 20 percent.

Airbus has so far announced just 10 non-binding orders for the A350, while Boeing has 266 orders and commitments for the 787. But Airbus' chief salesman, John Leahy, has said he expects to announce more than 100 further A350 orders during next week's Paris Air Show at Le Bourget, close to the French capital.

Plans for European government aid to fund development of the A350 are at the center of a trade dispute between the United States and the EU, after Washington filed a complaint at the World Trade Organization.

EADS last month confirmed its "full support" for the elimination of all kinds of aircraft subsidies including the refundable loans Airbus receives from governments - provided that all federal, state and foreign subsidies to Boeing are also scrapped.

The European defense company also spelled out its conditions for giving up government loans for development of the plane in a letter to the European Commission on Tuesday, an EU official said.

But the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said that, in the absence of a comprehensive deal to cut subsidies on both sides, the EADS offer did not affect plans to fund the usual one-third of A350 development costs with loans from Airbus' four government backers: France, Germany, Britain and Spain.

EADS Aims For Airbus A350 Go-Ahead By End Of September

Reuters UK
June 8, 2005


FRANKFURT/LONDON -- Airbus parent firm EADS said on Wednesday it aimed to launch its Airbus A350 model by the end of September, dashing hopes of a formal go-ahead at next week's Paris air show.

"The board confirmed its willingness to proceed towards the full industrial launch of the programme with its partner BAE Systems by the end of September," EADS said in a statement.

Orders for the A350 model are expected to be a highlight of the world's largest air show, where both Airbus and rival Boeing Co. traditionally make major announcements.

BAE, which owns 20 percent of Airbus, said separately that Airbus had lined up 100 commitments for the plane so far.

Officially, Airbus has just one commitment for the A350 from Spain's Air Europa for 10 planes and two options.

It is also in talks to seek A350 orders from carriers Emirates and Qatar Airways, and a deal with carrier America West is in the works.

Boeing has stormed ahead in the mid-sized market with orders for its new 787, which has secured 266 commitments from 21 customers.

Plans to seek European state loans to cover a third of the A350's development costs have sparked a showdown between the European Union and the United States which threatens to become the biggest fight in the World Trade Organisation's 10-year history.

"Airbus has not yet made any final decision on the financing," BAE said on Wednesday.

Weak demand for the mooted A350 has triggered a series of design changes aimed at winning enough customers to allow the EADS and BAE boards to approve construction of the plane.

The programme is expected to cost at least 3 billion euros.

Emirates Says It Won't Unveil New Orders At Paris Air Show

By MarketWatch
June 10, 2005


LONDON -- Dubai-based Emirates Airlines said Friday it isn't planning to unveil new aircraft orders at next week's Paris Air Show.

A spokesman said no final decision had been made regarding the purchase of new planes.

"We're continuing to look at options for future aircraft orders, including the proposed (Airbus) A350 and Boeing 787 and 777-300ER/200LR variants," he said, reading from a company statement.

Some industry analysts had expected Emirates to announce an order for Airbus' proposed A350 at the show, helping the European plane maker to officially launch the aircraft. Earlier this week, however, Airbus' main owner - European Aeronautic Defence & Space Co. - said it's now aiming for an industrial launch of the twin-engine A350 program by September.

The A350, which is based on the A330 model, is designed to compete with Boeing Co.'s increasingly successful 787 Dreamliner. So far, Airbus has only received commitments for 10 of the planes from Air Europa.

Some observers believe Emirates now look to announce the new plane order at the Dubai Air Show in November. The Emirates spokesman said the airline already has some 96 Boeing and Airbus planes on order.

Airbus executives have said previously they expect to have over 50 orders for the A350 planes by the time of the air show. Middle-east carrier Qatar Airways is considered a likely buyer of the A350, according to analysts.

Airbus wins key A350 orders despite funding doubts
By LAURENCE FROST
13 June 2005

LE BOURGET, France (AP) - On the first day of the Paris Air Show, Airbus came out swinging in its fight against Boeing, saying it has won enough orders to launch its mid-sized A350 jet after beating its rival to a 60-plane deal with Qatar Airways.

After a run of bad news for the European plane maker, Qatar Airways announced it chose to buy up to 60 of Airbus' A350s instead of Boeing's 787 "Dreamliner."

Although the Doha, Qatar-based carrier also said it plans to buy at least 20 Boeing 777s, the A350 announcement is a major boost for Airbus and a blow to Chicago-based Boeing Co. -- which had hoped Qatar would add to the 266 Dreamliner orders already on its books.

Before the Qatar deal, which has yet to be finalized, Airbus had announced just 10 nonbinding A350 orders from Spanish carrier Air Europa. Boeing's claims -- that the A350, derived from the existing A330, was no match for its all-new jet -- were gaining credibility.

But Qatar's order was seen as a vote of confidence in the latest, improved design for the Airbus jet, which now includes more lightweight composites than originally promised.

"It's certainly a well-needed morale boost for the A350 program," said Jon Kutler, head of the U.S. aerospace consulting group Jefferies Quarterdeck.

Airbus Chief Executive Noel Forgeard said the Qatari deal means he now has "more than enough" orders to launch the plane.

That decision has effectively been postponed by Airbus parent European Aeronautic Defence and Space Co., which said last week it planned to give the green light "by the end of September," instead of during the show, as many had expected. Dubai, United Arab Emirates-based airline Emirates, which had been expected to order 50 of the planes this week, said last week it had no plans to announce any purchases.

EADS has been without a CEO for over a month. The appointment of French Airbus boss Forgeard and German Tom Enders as joint-CEOs has been blocked by German resistance to Forgeard's plans to increase the group's control over divisions including Airbus when he takes up the job.

World Trade Organization litigation filed by the United States against the government funding that Airbus receives to develop its planes has also delayed a decision on how to finance the A350. The EU has countersued, citing military funding and subsidies received by Boeing and its foreign suppliers.

A person close to Airbus, who asked not to be identified because no decision had been made, said the company and its shareholders are asking governments to contribute U.S.-style research funding toward the A350's development cost, instead of the usual soft loans. Washington has attacked the loans as subsidies because they shift financing costs and risk from Airbus to the governments since they do not have to be repaid if the plane flops commercially.

Ministers from Airbus' four supporting governments -- France, Germany, Britain and Spain -- discussed A350 funding with Forgeard on the margins of the show but reached no firm conclusion, French Transport Minister Dominique Perben said.

Asked whether they had considered research funding as an alternative to development loans, British Industry Minister Alun Michael said: "It's very clear that research and technology is at the heart of the long-term viability of the industry."

Airbus still has to clinch more deals if it's to deliver on Chief Commercial Officer John Leahy's earlier pledge to unveil more than 100 new A350 orders at the show.

Leahy said Monday the total order book stands at 90, including the Air Europa deal and 20 more commitments from U.S. Airways -- which are subject to the completion of its planned merger with America West Holdings Corp.

U.S. Airways said last month it had struck a deal with Airbus to become the launch customer for the A350 in return for a $250 million loan from the Toulouse, France-based plane maker.

Shares in EADS, which owns 80 percent of Airbus, closed 0.2 percent lower at 23.85 euros ($28.77). Britain's BAE Systems PLC, which owns the rest, ended 1.2 percent higher at 280.25 pence ($5.08) in London.

More than 200 planes and helicopters are on display at Le Bourget, the aerospace industry's biggest gathering, alongside aeronautical and military hardware from 41 countries.

The clear star of the show is the Airbus A380 "superjumbo," the world's largest passenger plane, which took part in a display flight before French President Jacques Chirac. The 555-seater, set to fly every day at its first air show appearance, made its maiden flight in April.

Air show organizers are expecting a total of 300,000 visitors throughout the week. The show opens to the public for its last three days, June 17-19.

^ Thanks for the article hk! :)

Well that's 60 down, now Airbus still owes us another 40 orders before the end of the Airshow! :) :) :)

.. and here's 12 more!



Airbus Gets More Orders For A350 Planes

By Rod Stone and David Pearson
Dow Jones
June 14, 2005


PARIS -- European plane maker Airbus said Tuesday it has received an order for 12 A350 planes from Aviation Lease And Finance Co., or Alafco, a Kuwaiti aviation leasing company.

The company has also taken out options for a further six A350s. The order will mainly be for the smaller A350-800 model, but Alafco has the flexibility to take some of the larger A350-900 versions.

Alafco's order for the A350 is the first by a leasing company.

Deliveries are due to start in 2012. The list price of the A350-800 model is $160 million, while the 900 lists for $180 million.

U.S.-based General Electric Co. said separately that it has signed an agreement with Alafco to supply GEnx engines for the 12 A350s on order. The engines are worth more than $300 million.

John Leahy, Airbus' chief commercial officer, said the company now has a total of 102 orders and commitments for the A350 from four customers. He added that more A350 contracts can be expected to be announced at this week's Paris Air Show.

I think it will be interesting to see the A350 although I'm more of a Boeing 787 fan.

Pictures:

http://events.airbus.com/A380/Images/MME/2821.JPG

http://events.airbus.com/A380/Images/MME/2824.JPG


Specifications:

http://events.airbus.com/A380/Images/MME/2763.JPG

http://events.airbus.com/A380/Images/MME/2765.JPG

(Photos & Information Courtesy Airbus.com)

this is the first plane of airbus i love!

^:rofl:

No wonder Iberia hasn't bought any A350s!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

BTW I'll catch up with posting articles from Paris Air Show orders this weekend. :cheers:

:) ...

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.......

.........

...........

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Airbus A350 List Of Orders & Commitments:
As Of June 21st 2005

5 -- Kingfisher Airlines
8 -- TAM
10 -- GE CAS
10 -- Air Europa
12 -- ALAFCO
20 -- U.S. Airways
60 -- Qatar Airways

Total: 125

... Not bad for an aircraft that hasn't even been launched! :rofl: :rofl:

this is the final design of the iberia a350, showed on the paris air show!
http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/photos/big/00000307.jpg
this joke is sooo burnt :goodnight :hahano:

^... Please delete that pic.

New York Yankee.... how old are you?! Are you already 14 years old or older?!
Your posts are not very mature I must say... :|

It's not that I don't like the pic, it's that:

1) It's soooooooo played.

2) I'm SURE I'll still end up getting posts from people thinking that's the real A350.

So PLEASE let it die, you're jacking this thread! :bash: :bash: :bash:

Are you already 14 years old or older?!

Yes i am! (Older)

my job is architect,(this said enough) can you do this on the age of 14 years old?

Yes i am! (Older)
my job is architect,(this said enough) can you do this on the age of 14 years old?
I designed my first skyscraper at the age of 7 http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/party/party0001.gif

I designed my first skyscraper at the age of 7 http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/party/party0001.gif

yes it is possible. but not as you be an professional architect, that's my job!

my job is architect,(this said enough) can you do this on the age of 14 years old?

Oh, you're and architect... not very surprising...
(I'm studing civil engeneering by the way)

Grow up Yankee. You're purpousely defacing my thread and I'll have you banned if you continue this childish behavior.

just make sure what is posted is in the realm of reality...

Grow up Yankee. You're purpousely defacing my thread and I'll have you banned if you continue this childish behavior.

what a bullshit, why do you think this all the time? it's stupid,

'ohh what is he doing with my nice tread' 'ohh, this is so bad' maybe you think.

you're bad, this is a forum where everybody can typ some things an story's, but you don't want this, because as anyone said a thing over the a350, you said than that the person who it saids, is childish; that he must grow up,.......... and more.

that's stupid. it's only funny how you talk to people and react to them.

I don't want to say these things but i think you're childish.....

@cheese mmmmm.....
grow up Cheese!

how do we can see that you aren't a child?

so?

I think the plane is very good looking! ;)

@childish Cheese Mmmmmmmmm

Go to the old A350 tread AND CLOSE THIS ONE!!!!

^NYYankee... GROW UP!
You may be 90 years old, but you act like a 5 year old child!

that's for the fun!

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/photos/big/00000307.jpg

nice pictures

nice picture

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/photos/big/00000307.jpg

another nice airlplane!
http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/photos/big/00005001.jpg

the modifided a340

You definetly feel that Boeing sucks, otherwise you would come here and say how good Boeing aiplanes are instead of coming here to make fun of Airbus.

yeah! that's it, and i hate the a350

he cheese mmmmm, why we dont rename this tread into 'faked airbus pictures'
thats a good name for this stupid tread.

this thread is shit.

new york yankee, troll in anymore threads and you'll be banned.

New York I'd recommend you leave well enough alone....if I continue to receive pms concerning you guys action will be taken. Thanks for your cooperation. :)