AROUND TOWN
City proposes bar-scene expansion
Police anticipate trouble if 3 a.m. closings OK'd

John Bermingham Sound Off
The Province

Tuesday, May 03, 2005


Expect plenty of action if plans for 2,352 additional seats and a 3 a.m. all-week closing are approved for Granville Street's bar and club district.

Vancouver's party zone is set to almost double in size.

City liquor regulators are looking at extending the Granville entertainment district bar and club strip to the foot of the Granville Bridge.

It would mean that all the pubs and clubs along the strip would close at 3 a.m., seven days a week.

There are currently 2,577 seats in nightspots along the 700- to 900-blocks Granville.

The new rules would add another 2,352 spots from the 1000- to 1300-blocks.

Waide Luciak, owner of the Yale Hotel at 1300 Granville, said opening till three would allow the blues bar to stage more live music events.

"We could have two shows in an evening, and therefore be able to get in bigger acts," he said yesterday.

On quieter weekday nights, Luciak said, the bar could close earlier.

"I really don't think the demand is there to be open till 3 a.m. every night of the week."

John Teti, chairman of Barwatch, an industry lobby group, said expanding the zone allows bar patrons to move around, without converging as they do now.

"We've a city of I don't know how many million," said Teti. "And we have a three-block entertainment district."

Vancouver police Insp. Val Harrison, who runs weekend patrols along Granville, said there will be an impact on policing.

"We are going to be the only jurisdiction doing this," she said.

"The more access people have to alcohol, the more problems the police have to deal with."

There's also a similar plan to offer 3 a.m. closings in the entertainment district at Davie Village.

An open house on the proposal goes between 3 and 7 p.m. today at the Chateau Granville Hotel. A council meeting on the issue is scheduled for June 16.

jbermingham@png.canwest.com
© The Vancouver Province 2005

Awesome

:cucumber::cucumber::cucumber::cucumber::cucumber::cucumber::cucumber::cucumber::cucumber::cucumber::cucumber::cucumber:
:drunk::drunk::drunk::drunk::drunk::drunk::drunk:
:rock::rock::rock::rock::rock::rock::nocrook::rock::rock::rock::rock::rock::rock:
:righton: :righton: :righton: :righton: :righton: :righton: :righton: :righton:
:pepper: :pepper: :pepper: :pepper: :pepper: :pepper: :pepper: :pepper: :pepper: :pepper: :pepper:
:dance2::dance2::dance2::dance2::dance2::dance2::dance2: :dance2: :dance2: :dance2: :dance2: :dance2: :dance2: :dance2: :dance2: :dance2:
:banana2::banana2::banana2::banana2::banana2::banana2::banana2: :banana2: :banana2: :banana2: :banana2:
:naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty:
:dj: :dj: :dj: :dj: :dj: :dj: :dj: :dj: :dj:
:dance2::dance::dance2:
:carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot:
:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

^ :laugh: That describes the type of place I like to avoid. I prefer a couple of brew in a mellow atmosphere with a few friends.

I kinda feel sorry for the police who have to deal with all those idiots who get themselves into trouble... I can't understand what it is that sparks the trouble. Does anyone know? Are they just idiots who can't handle liquor? Does this happen in other cities with similar closing times? Bunch of wankers the lot of em. :cheers:

Awesome

:cucumber::cucumber::cucumber::cucumber::cucumber::cucumber::cucumber::cucumber::cucumber::cucumber::cucumber::cucumber:
:drunk::drunk::drunk::drunk::drunk::drunk::drunk:
:rock::rock::rock::rock::rock::rock::nocrook::rock::rock::rock::rock::rock::rock:
:righton: :righton: :righton: :righton: :righton: :righton: :righton: :righton:
:pepper: :pepper: :pepper: :pepper: :pepper: :pepper: :pepper: :pepper: :pepper: :pepper: :pepper:
:dance2::dance2::dance2::dance2::dance2::dance2::dance2: :dance2: :dance2: :dance2: :dance2: :dance2: :dance2: :dance2: :dance2: :dance2:
:banana2::banana2::banana2::banana2::banana2::banana2::banana2: :banana2: :banana2: :banana2: :banana2:
:naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty:
:dj: :dj: :dj: :dj: :dj: :dj: :dj: :dj: :dj:
:dance2::dance::dance2:
:carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot:
:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: somebody is happy

^Correction, someone is bored.

I have all those animations in that order saved to use whenever. This is good news for Vancouver's nightlife.

:dance:


EDIT: Hey wait a sec, ^you're the jerk that rated 1 on my photo a few weeks ago for no reason :bash:

^Correction, someone is bored.

I have all those animations in that order saved to use whenever. This is good news for Vancouver's nightlife.

:dance:


EDIT: Hey wait a sec, ^you're the jerk that rated 1 on my photo a few weeks ago for no reason :bash:
which photo?

I think its a great idea. Vancouver's nightlife is pretty bad fort a city that size. As far as "the poor police", well the've managed in Montreal and New York all these dacades for the whole city, I'm sure they can manage.
As for these poor who live near Granville well............tough break. I guess thats what happens when you choose to live a commercial area of a downtown in a city of 2.2million.
They sound like those assholes on the westside who were complaining about using the Arbutus corridor as rapid transit as it would be too busy and too loud. Well that whats happens when you chooese to buy a house on a railway track.
Vancouver's nightful is unbearable dull compared to Toronto/Montreal. Its high time they did something to liven this sleepy little city up.
As for the guy who just likes going to a couple pubs, well I tend to be the same. I haven't gone nightclubbing in years but I not going to limit the choice of others. This is why people live downtown for the amenities, diversity, and options in lifestlye they can enjoy.

I say do it, it will add alot more urbanity/vibrancy than it already has now, which is pretty crazy, but the more the marrier.

So is nobody bothered by the fact so many problems (I.e., fights) seem to be occuring in our 'entertainment district'? What are your thoughts on that? I think it stinks. I can't see this (trouble) as normal and acceptable.
I haven't gone nightclubbing in years but I not going to limit the choice of others. This is why people live downtown for the amenities, diversity, and options in lifestlye they can enjoy.I just want to limit myself from going :) . I'm all for it as well btw.

They sound like those assholes on the westside who were complaining about using the Arbutus corridor as rapid transit as it would be too busy and too loud.I think they were also arguing the fact the Arbutus corridor was an inferior route compared with Cambie.

^ the arbutus corridor is a much much inferior route then Cambie, it would be the stupidest place for a rapid transit line. Why put rapid transit threw the least dense part of Vancouver, which has very few points of interest and an area where the prefered method of transportation is by way of BMW, Porche or some other luxury vehicle. Cambie makes sence its right down the middle of the city and has many points of interest and many major employment centres.

Back on topic its nice to see Vancouver improving its nightlife, I just hope the police can handel it, and that it reduces the rediculace weekend line ups.

All these new places will have to buy liquor licenses from the city, which are a pretty penny. I'm sure with the money they make from all those clubs on Granville they can beef up the police presence on the strip. The more police walking on foot the less chance someone is going to act a fool.

As far as "the poor police", well the've managed in Montreal and New York all these dacades for the whole city, I'm sure they can manage.

Do you have any idea how many officers New York has? They employ 39,110 officers. 39,110! Vancouver has what, about 2000. The City of New York has 8,115,135 while the City of Vancouver has 582,045. That's roughly 14 times the size of Vancouver. Our Police force is still 10,000 officers short of New York if enlarged to that size (Couldn't find any per 100,000 statistics).

Do you have any idea how many officers New York has? They employ 39,110 officers. 39,110! Vancouver has what, about 2000. The City of New York has 8,115,135 while the City of Vancouver has 582,045. That's roughly 14 times the size of Vancouver. Our Police force is still 10,000 officers short of New York if enlarged to that size (Couldn't find any per 100,000 statistics).

Your missing the point, We are talking about the entertainment district, not the whole f*ckin city, New Yorks entertainment district or whatever does not have 8 million people partying every weekend. He was just talking about how to keep things in order for expanding things like these, strategies on how to reduce crime, fights, or peole just being stupid. The police just have to be smart. Read first!

Vancouver has fewer police officers than any other major city in Canada per capita. BC also has the fewest by province despite the fact that both Vancouver and BC have crime rates well above the national average.
That is the province's problem for underfunding.

i heard that our lack of policing problem is also because of lack of RCMP funding by the federal government in the province.

Your missing the point, We are talking about the entertainment district, not the whole f*ckin city, New Yorks entertainment district or whatever does not have 8 million people partying every weekend.

New York may not have eight million party goers, but Vancouver definetly does not have five-hundred-and-eighty-thousand party goers. It evens out, or not quite, as that is what I was getting at.

New York may not have eight million party goers, but Vancouver definetly does not have five-hundred-and-eighty-thousand party goers. It evens out, or not quite, as that is what I was getting at.

Well we were not talking about cities, just the expansion of an area to add more bars, what he meant was if the two cities he mentioned could effectively police their respective areas, then we should also figure out a way to do the same, instead of complaining about more crime etc.

The reason they can effectively police their late night entertainment districts is because they have significantly more police than the city of Vancouver. And that's not because the aformentioned cities have larger populations, it is because they have a larger ratio of police to public.

What size of an area would the new entertainement district expansion cover in metres/kilometres? And how large is the existing?

What size of an area would the new entertainement district expansion cover in metres/kilometres? And how large is the existing?Hate to see people left hanging. :)

According to the article, it says "There are currently 2,577 seats in nightspots along the 700- to 900-blocks Granville.

The new rules would add another 2,352 spots from the 1000- to 1300-blocks."

So it looks like it could be close to twice the size of the existing area, which will make it 6 blocks in length. That would be from Georgia St. to just past Drake, I believe. Over 1 km if I'm not mistaken. It would be interesting to observe from a distance - being in an area with police everywhere can't be that fun for someone like myself. I'll have to see how it works out.

The reason they can effectively police their late night entertainment districts is because they have significantly more police than the city of Vancouver. And that's not because the aformentioned cities have larger populations, it is because they have a larger ratio of police to public.


Downtown Vancouver is a huge area, there alot of police on duty their, especially at night, so there is enough poilce officers to do their job effectively, they can now beef up the police presence, since the entertainment distrcit will be expanded into a much bigger scene.

But they cannot 'beef up' the police presence in the city at night because it costs money that they do not have. Last year the police were over-budget as it was, citing the extra costs of overtime pay for offiers working the club scenes at night. As seen here (http://vancouver.ca:8765/cs.html?charset=iso-8859-1&url=http%3A//vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/20050315/rr1a-app3-III.pdf&qt=2005+budget+Police&col=all&n=1&la=en), last years budget was $140 million. And that gets us an average response time of 13 minutes, compared to our 7 mintues in 1994. It goes on to say that the population of Vancouver for that time frame has increased by 86,000, but the number of officers has decreased from 561 to 522. The most intresting point however, is this:

For 2005, the VPD is recommending 98 additional police officers and 93 additional civilian personnel, at a cost of $12 million. Additional increases are also sought in subsequent years.

Please, read that .pdf and understand that the police are already having issues coping with the current situation. I do not see how expanding the bar scene will make it any easier on them, our saftey or our property taxes.

I am sure they can find a couple more officers for the job in the entertainment district, they dont completely need to go all out and hire many officers for this particular job. Like someone said earlier in the discussion if police did foot patrols more often on granville street, there would be less problems, instead of just driving by everything. You also have to look at how smartly you can use your officers, adding hundreds and thousands of more officers isnt always the solution.

Totally unfair. The creation of an entertainment precinct along Granville street artificially inflates the value of bars and clubs within the area while putting different restrictions on similar venues in different areas. ie Broadway. If such a scheme were implemented, the city would likely be forced to reimburse businesses not within the district for expropriation of future profits - and rightly so. With regards to the crime problem, there has been conjectures that the majority of troublemakers are, as is said, "Bridge and Tunnel." Couldn't Langley build their own club, next to the Casino and insta-loan store?