Hi, well I read this (posted somewhere else) report by the International Crisis Group. This is serious stuff (point in the monument thread), and as a Sunni, I understand fully what this report talks about. Here is a link to the report, scary imo if nothin happens about it.

http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?l=1&id=3404

Post your thoughts about this. I'll comment later.

See,

There is nothing wrong in our country or our modified constitution.

The only problem comes from on place, that being people, one sort of people, one group of people, an isolated minority.

No risks of such are in Bahrain this report is not accurate.

The trouble makers are shrinking since our great reforms.

They dont exist.

Are you sure? How is this report not accurate.

Are you sure they are an isolated minority
What about the rallies that are being staged? I've been readin about many. The problem is that the state is kinda usin a police type of authority, not sure that is a good move.

I mean you live in Bahrain at the moment, you must have noticed somethin within the last few months.


I think part of the problem lies in the fact that the nuwab council (can't really explain how great they are, difficult to describe them in words) hasn't really be tackling the proper issues concerning the country.

See,

There is nothing wrong in our country or our modified constitution.

The only problem comes from on place, that being people, one sort of people, one group of people, an isolated minority.

No risks of such are in Bahrain this report is not accurate.

isolated minority? have u read the article properly? The article discusses discriminatory issues faced by the Shiite community. Incase you didnt know Shiites make up about 70% or more of Bahrain's population. And I dont think that can be considered anywhere near an "isolated minority". You dont hear about these issues because you are not aloud to hear about them. its a shame but its the truth...the reality of our country's political situation isnt as flowery as it is portrayed to be but inshAllah bahrain one day finds TRUE political stability...and it has been getting better but not good enough in my oppinion.

I think the goverment done so many things to satisfy the Shiite community but still things are not getting better, do you think if the goverment maintain 1973 Constitution, things will be better?
can you imagine the rules that MPs (nuwab) are coming with now without al shura council? it will be a disaster. shura has got very well educated people where 90% of the nuwab are not.
did you read this part " ending informal and formal practices that prohibit Shiites from living in predominantly Sunni residential areas"
my cousin used to live in shiites area they forced him by making all the disturbance you can imagine to leave the his place. i think sunni people they like thier own areas and shiite does. but you have to understand that i'm not talking about all the shiite.

I think the goverment done so many things to satisfy the Shiite community

propaganda is a powerful tool. dont believe everything you read in the GDN or Alayam.

Well we've made some progress, but more is still needed...i almost fully agree with the article, save for the fact that it seems to me to be very exaggerated, or rather cynical...I believe all the problems outlined in the article do exist to some degree...except for a couple im not soo sure about....but the article makes it all sound very "combustile"...It sounds like theres an impending and imminent disaster or whatever....thats a very very cynical and negative view of the situation....

And even though the MP's right now aren't really doing their job, and their disastrous proposals might affect us more if they had more power, or as much power as they were granted in the 1973 constitution, constitutional reforms are needed, well some at least...I don't think the new constitution limited the MP's powers for fear of what's happening now, i.e. their backward proposals etc....It was just what it is, a step to limit their powers, and yet somewhat pacify and appease the population and their seemingly incessant calls for the restoration of the parliment...Also, it probably was meant or at least served as grounds for a somewhat undue international recognition and praise, as the article mentioned vis-á-vis the benefactor, the states..

Moody, i think the parliment is a farce, in ohhh SOO MANY ways...The new modified constitution very much limits the parliments powers...The parliment, in effect, is unable to make any big decisions that may go against the government's wishes...Theoretically its all possible, but its not practical or realistic...

Just some of my thoughts on the situation...I'm not saying i'm with or agreeing with the opposition or anybody....

Nothing is wrong with Bahrain neither a year ago, few months ago, nor a week ago !!

These are as mentioned, a minority. and for those who started talking in a racist language, little shame on you, cuz Sunnies and Shittets are brothers and no such disagreement is present.

those who demonstrate on the roads block our future? hehe they are about 5000 to 7000 at maximum, have no word, cuz majority support governmental reforms and voted in favor of the National Charter and also in the representative councel elections.

We haven't got problems of anysort as mentioned in that article? very strange article !

And some people have believed all about it? so what this is not a peace of Quran or something, just some ppl who put their sick ideas, which dont help our countries image.

No, I dont agree that there is any room for such stuff in Bahrain, only the unemployed or those who have so much time to spare ( not busy enough with work amd family) and extremests do some trouble here and there ! which has no harm, and shall go away with ignorance and so on.

Nothing is wrong with Bahrain neither a year ago, few months ago, nor a week ago !!

These are as mentioned, a minority. and for those who started talking in a racist language, little shame on you, cuz Sunnies and Shittets are brothers and no such disagreement is present.

those who demonstrate on the roads block our future? hehe they are about 5000 to 7000 at maximum, have no word, cuz majority support governmental reforms and voted in favor of the National Charter and also in the representative councel elections.

We haven't got problems of anysort as mentioned in that article? very strange article !

And some people have believed all about it? so what this is not a peace of Quran or something, just some ppl who put their sick ideas, which dont help our countries image.

No, I dont agree that there is any room for such stuff in Bahrain, only the unemployed or those who have so much time to spare ( not busy enough with work amd family) and extremests do some trouble here and there ! which has no harm, and shall go away with ignorance and so on.

Moody explain to me how i am talking in a racist language? Please read my posts properly before making accusations.

You think I want to hear about these things? No, i am in the same position of disappointment as anyone would be upon reading such news. And I would love to say that it is not true but unfortunately people learn alot of things when they leave Bahrain. As B. Patriot said the article may be a little bit exaggurated. It is a shame however you refuse to even consider its slightest credibility because maybe only then will you get an idea of the what the reality of Bahrain is behind the glamour of the GDN and co. Bahrain is better than alot of places on this earth, but it is nowhere near utopia.

Brother if we refuse to accept the reality of the situation then im sorry to say that we will get nowhere. Acknowedging such problems is the only way to solve them.

No, I dont agree that there is any room for such stuff in Bahrain, only the unemployed or those who have so much time to spare ( not busy enough with work amd family) and extremests do some trouble here and there ! which has no harm, and shall go away with ignorance and so on.

oh and just thought that you should know unemployment is one of THE BIGGEST problems faced in Bahrain's economy today. so id think twice about making such comments ;).

Moody, i totally agree with you.
sky_line BRN, why do we have to refuse the reality, and what is the reality? maybe we need to make more effort to gother sunni and shiite in one path which is working for Bahrain where we belong to.
regarding the unemployment i think the govt. is really trying hard to creat jobs in bahrain and you can see it by all that number of the new projects coming to the country.
so, why dont we just give the govt 2 more years after most of the projects are ready to see what's gona happen.

So do u, Elmahri and Moody, really think Bahrain's current constitution is fine? It shouldn't be further modified or reformed? not even the slightest bit?

Moody explain to me how i am talking in a racist language? Please read my posts properly before making accusations.

You think I want to hear about these things? No, i am in the same position of disappointment as anyone would be upon reading such news. And I would love to say that it is not true but unfortunately people learn alot of things when they leave Bahrain. As B. Patriot said the article may be a little bit exaggurated. It is a shame however you refuse to even consider its slightest credibility because maybe only then will you get an idea of the what the reality of Bahrain is behind the glamour of the GDN and co. Bahrain is better than alot of places on this earth, but it is nowhere near utopia.

Brother if we refuse to accept the reality of the situation then im sorry to say that we will get nowhere. Acknowedging such problems is the only way to solve them.
Could you please tell me where I mentioned you in my article??!! It's you who should read properly and not me :)

oh and just thought that you should know unemployment is one of THE BIGGEST problems faced in Bahrain's economy today. so id think twice about making such comments ;).

Dude,

Unemployment is a Global Problem, and was not invented in Bahrain !

So do u, Elmahri and Moody, really think Bahrain's current constitution is fine? It shouldn't be further modified or reformed? not even the slightest bit?


I read all constitution when was released, many times, and found it very mature.

Any modifications are left for the Nuwab and Shoura Councel, National Assembly i should say. if and when they see a need (if needed)

Now, I think no need, onlything is to learn from current experience.

The idea is, not to diliver power in one shot, but gradually, it is a very wise start for democracy, however some ppl want to benefit from this issue to promote other ideas, their ideas, which claim lack of power.

Imagine a kid and a car ! can you give him keys and ask him to drive on the highway and assume no accident will happen?? No

So, current constitution is Just Great. and is a master piece, we have many Civilized countries backing us.

Well i too read the constitution, and the balance of power is very different from that which the 1973 constitution stipulates....The MP's have less power, the government effectively has more at the expense of the ppl....The MP's will not be able to bring about this gradual increase in power or democracy whch u mention unless the government allows them to...The government should be responsible to the MP's, the people, but now its responsible to the National Assembly which is 50% Shura, the Shura being appointed by the government, or rather the head of the government, soo they are naturally with the government, which hinders a true democratic process and the governments accountability to the people...Don't you see that?

I think the current constitution is in favour for the sunnah to remain in power, so why they should change???

Could you please tell me where I mentioned you in my article??!! It's you who should read properly and not me :)
Your so called 'article' was a direct response to my reply to your first message. In youre response im sure you cleary said...
for those who started talking in a racist language, little shame on you, cuz Sunnies and Shittets are brothers and no such disagreement is present.
Now it does not take a genious to understand how you were obviously pissed off about how I brought in the Shiite issue in the first place. But just let me remind you that I mentioned the dominance of the Shiite population in Bahrain because you had labelled the victims of the original article (http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?l=1&id=3404) an "isolated minority", despite it's clear association with the Shiite community. And if you still think these issues have no truth in them then I suggest you drive into the villages of Sitra or Duraz and see how people live there..

Dude,

Unemployment is a Global Problem, and was not invented in Bahrain !

That just shows how ignorant you are. Bahrain's unemployment rate is one of the most serious downfalls in our economy, and if you dont recognize this as a problem then i really dont know what to say to you.

I think the current constitution is in favour for the sunnah to remain in power, so why they should change???

cazanova is this a question or a suggestion?

Ok, bein a Sunni, am happy with the way things are goin for us, but again, am a Bahraini, and my brothers in the country also need to live like we live, and above all, let's not forget we're muslims (mostly) and Islam urges equality.

Doin a quick reality check, the situation is a far cry from bein solved. The things you read in the papers are propaganda mostly (some is true but still things really need to be changed).

The constitution is not even complete, has good it's good points, but again it has it's flaws, and one of them is freedom of speech, and it has been highlighted as one of the areas that need to be developed. By just livin in th west, you'll see the true meanin of freedom of speech, or just when ur travelin, pick up a newspaper and see. Ya we're much better than neighbouring countries, but remember, Bahrain is a pioneer and has always been a model for the Arab World, and we don't want to see it goin backward when it has a promising future ahead, allowin it to shine more than ever. We're the only country in the Gulf with political parties and opposition, none of the other countries in the GCC allow that.


About unemployment, I'd have to say that the comment about that "Bahrain hasn't invented unemployment" is quite ignorant, no offence. What you suggestin is that we don't do anythin and just forget it. If there wasn't that serious problem, why do u think all those reforms are takin place to create 100,000 jobs in the next decade.

I'll discuss this later, but my point is, equality and fairness and let's keep leading the way, before others pass us, that's the message.

Out of interest, here is an article posted in Kansas (not even the Arab World):


This is incredibly encouraging. From the place that just released detained bloggers, the majority Shiite protested against the government demanding reform!

MANAMA (Reuters) - Tens of thousands have marched in one of Bahrain’s largest opposition demonstrations
to demand democratic reforms in the pro-Western Gulf Arab state.

Friday’s peaceful march, called by the Shi’ite-led opposition, follows unsuccessful talks with the government on
constitutional reforms to give greater powers to parliament’s elected assembly, which is on an equal footing with a
state-appointed chamber.

Bahrain, the Gulf’s banking hub and home to the U.S. Navy’s Fifth Fleet, has introduced some reforms, but the
opposition, led by the country’s majority Shi’ite Muslims, want more rights in the small Sunni-ruled island state.

Interior Minister Sheikh Rashed bin Abdullah al-Khalifa called for legal action against organisers for holding the
march despite being refused a permit, the state news agency BNA said.

Sheikh Rashed said his ministry did not issue the permit due to regional “tension and security threats”. He did
not elaborate.

Sheikh Ali Salman, a cleric who heads a main opposition group, earlier told marchers: “This gathering is
demanding a constitution that is agreed upon by everybody, to bring the country out of a crisis which cripples its
progress and reforms.” Organisers estimated the crowd at about 80,000.

“Bahrain is suffering from policies that harm the nation — corruption, unemployment and poverty. There is an
urgent need for reforms,” he added.

This is incredibly good news. Al Jazeera is actually being helpful in providing information, and is reporting that the government plans to move against the protestors in unspecified measures.

Bahrain has warned it will take unspecified measures against the Gulf state’s main Shia opposition group after it organised a mass demonstration in defiance of a government ban.

The Islamic National Accord Association (INAA) “will face legal measures after it organised an unlawful demonstration yesterday,” Information Minister and State Minister for Foreign Affairs Muhammad Abd al-Ghaffar was quoted by the daily Al-Ayyam as saying on Saturday.

Newspapers carried a similar warning issued by the interior minister late on Friday after thousands of people took to the streets of Sitra, the archipelago’s third largest island located south of Manama, in response to the INAA’s call to press for constitutional reforms.

INAA leader Shaikh Ali Salman led the march, in which representatives of three other political groupings allied with his association - the leftist National Democratic Action Association, the Nationalist Democratic Rally, which is a pan-Arab nationalist group, and the Islamic Action Association, a Shia grouping - also took part.

Babbling Bahrania has a bit more on a woman activist and the constitutional reforms that took place between the 70s and now. It seems the opposition’s intent with this protest was to pressure the government to move more legislative and oversight powers to the elected parliament.

actually guys, this article shows a point of view of a shi'ite who hates sunnites i would like to know who wrote this, because just to let you know shi'ites are 50% of bahrain maybe more but not 70% nor 60% and seriously they isolate themselves(the shi'ites) and they aren't poor... they live that way with mut'a and all those heretical practises. Moody sunnis and shi'ites are really ''brothers'' did you ever read the book talbees iblees? If not then please do, shi'ites are outlaws of the islamic creed(aqeeda) they dont follow what muhammad*SAWS* brought, they follow many iranians and majus, believing they follow Ali*KAW* the shi'ite arabs (who are originaly arabs and not iranians) are few in iraq they are only 10% of the shi'ites...

anyways this Article isnt fair! it shows that the shi'its are living in a dump or something close to a dump, thought if they shi'ites isolate themselves and live in ghettos like they always do in the west, and all the rest of the world, except iran because they are the majority :), they shouldn't blame the goverment for that! The only shi'ites who kind of integrate in society are the rich ones, like the ones in kuwait and the UAE. This article is 10000% for shi'ites Skyline is right they keep showing that the shi'ites are poor, need help, they are oppressed and all thought they really arent....

And by the way Bahraini spirit, if we would like to talk about islam never forget islam is a way of life and has its law(sharia) we use all of it! or none of it! because half half is against islam. Which won't happen because this is against the goverment so we are better off not talking about islam, if we want to all of the laws should be islamic or it will be against islam!

Dude, first it's 70% in Bahrain and it's been known as a fact, even before it was 75% of the population. It never was 50%, we Bahrainis know that as a fact. Really our point of discussion isn't really about the fact that Shiite's are poor and they need help or the fact that they live in a dump, the thing here is mainly about what the constitution needs to tackle and how could things be changed.

This article is one viewpoint, there are others, but I just wanted to share it and have a constructive debate here about what needs to be done in Bahrain.

Have u guys seen this, http://chanadbahraini.blogspot.com/2005/05/constitutional-reform-again.html ?

Ya I've seen that, thanks for posting. A lot of ppl want the 1973 constitution back. I personally believe that a Shura council with half elected and half assigned is better as long as the elected meet a rigorous criteria (well educated, politics/econcomics/IT or any much needed background degree holder.

At the moment given that the current elected parliament is full of clowns, the shura council is coverin up mostly so that's ok to block nonsense proposals, but when the 2006 elections come and please God, we end up with educated ppl that will service the country, then the Shura thing needs to change.

actually guys, this article shows a point of view of a shi'ite who hates sunnites i would like to know who wrote this, because just to let you know shi'ites are 50% of bahrain maybe more but not 70% nor 60% and seriously they isolate themselves(the shi'ites) and they aren't poor... they live that way with mut'a and all those heretical practises. Moody sunnis and shi'ites are really ''brothers'' did you ever read the book talbees iblees? If not then please do, shi'ites are outlaws of the islamic creed(aqeeda) they dont follow what muhammad*SAWS* brought, they follow many iranians and majus, believing they follow Ali*KAW* the shi'ite arabs (who are originaly arabs and not iranians) are few in iraq they are only 10% of the shi'ites...

anyways this Article isnt fair! it shows that the shi'its are living in a dump or something close to a dump, thought if they shi'ites isolate themselves and live in ghettos like they always do in the west, and all the rest of the world, except iran because they are the majority :), they shouldn't blame the goverment for that! The only shi'ites who kind of integrate in society are the rich ones, like the ones in kuwait and the UAE. This article is 10000% for shi'ites Skyline is right they keep showing that the shi'ites are poor, need help, they are oppressed and all thought they really arent....

And by the way Bahraini spirit, if we would like to talk about islam never forget islam is a way of life and has its law(sharia) we use all of it! or none of it! because half half is against islam. Which won't happen because this is against the goverment so we are better off not talking about islam, if we want to all of the laws should be islamic or it will be against islam!

Anas it is very clear that you have an extremely limited knowledge on Bahraini society and our local politics. Im not even going to bother arguing with you on why you are wrong on so many different levels. It is people like you that put a strain on Islam and prevent it from advancing in the eyes of the world. Fortunately most people in Bahrain (Sunni and Shia) recognize the importance of equality and there are people working hard to abolish all forms of discrimination within our country. It is clear that you have been influenced by you're country's rigid islamic policies that do not tolerate the equality of those who differ. Fortunately (despite the problems) we are way past the political level that your country is in right now. So why dont you do us all a favour and waste youre efforts in a place where you will be taken seriously. have a nice day.

Ya I've seen that, thanks for posting. A lot of ppl want the 1973 constitution back. I personally believe that a Shura council with half elected and half assigned is better as long as the elected meet a rigorous criteria (well educated, politics/econcomics/IT or any much needed background degree holder.

At the moment given that the current elected parliament is full of clowns, the shura council is coverin up mostly so that's ok to block nonsense proposals, but when the 2006 elections come and please God, we end up with educated ppl that will service the country, then the Shura thing needs to change.
So you agree with me Bahraini spirit that we need well educated ppl like the ppl in Shura to prevent destructive decisions which the Nuwad could come up with.
And what if the nuwab in 2006 are same as the existing ones clowns or maybe worse?

Your so called 'article' was a direct response to my reply to your first message. In youre response im sure you cleary said...
..


You know, this was a very cheap try ! hehehehehee


I didn't talk to you, I didn't mention you ...!!!

Elli 3ala rasa ba67a, yet7asasha... is it the case with you or what?

Elli 3ala rasa ba67a, yet7asasha... is it the case with you or what?
hehehe... nice one moody :runaway:

Bahraini spirit, allah eysam7ek 3alla hal thread ppl will start fighting now :jk:

Any way i think this case is very sensitive which the government it self finding difficulty to sort out and I don't think we will come up with a resolution through these arguments, were just wasting our time here. :bash:
So please let’s go back to the nice conversation about nice projects keeping behind us that Sunni and Shiite things.
Guys i really love it when we all together like brothers without any discrimination like what we did to the guy who said arabs are stinks.
Oh, guys we can still talk about some thing similar, which we will all agree with, it's MP's thread. :)

You know, this was a very cheap try ! hehehehehee


I didn't talk to you, I didn't mention you ...!!!

Elli 3ala rasa ba67a, yet7asasha... is it the case with you or what?

ive explained my self once and i dont need to explain again. :weirdo:

I agree with what you said B-Spirit, but still mantain my point...The current situation, having a shura council, may have turned out somewhat favorable as they block the MP's nonesensical and backward proposals, but this didn't happen as a result of the government's vision and foresight...The situation is the way it is to limit the MP's powers...

I don't believe theres a significant disparity between Sunni's and Shiites in Bahrain in general...In specific cases, when it comes to specific governmental jobs sunni's are probably given a sort of priority...but i don't think there's significant poverty in Bahrain that is specific to shiites...

And as for ANAS, MY GOD, i don't like labeling people as this is a civilized forum and its meant for Bahrainis btw, but you seem to be an ignorant, closeminded, brainwashed, racist person....Your comments are very offensive and ignorant, soo please don't participate any further in this thread, as you're views are clearly wrong, misinformed, and destructive...

And as for casanova, we are seeking reforms, the establishment of a strong educated and enlightened parliment, a new dimension of democracy which gives the ppl power, or at least thats what is claimed, so thats why the situation needs to change...I don't believe the constitution necessarily favors sunnis...But the changes introduced since the 1973 constitution does give more power to the government regardless of wheather it is sunni dominated or not...

Take it easy guys, no need to fight, just thought this is a change from the usual. I mean if it's goin to go out of hand, I'll ask for it to be closed as I don't want fights here.

About that thing, ya I do agree that the Shura at the moment is useful enough to block the bs proposals by the Nuwabs. The move towards givin the govt. more power is not helpful at all, cause that's a step back rather than fwd. As for the Sunnis and Shiites thing, well it seems that the Shiites are the ones that want more change that us Sunnis, and they're really not happy.

I'll have to go now, I'll comment tomorrow, but please guys, don't fight, let's put a good example for others :). Ciao.

ok guys shut the fuck up!

ok guys shut the fuck up!

?????

I'v been thinkin that this thread hasn't really gone the way I'd loved it to be or just expected. Things don't look promising so I'd probably request it to be locked by tomorrow if things don't shape up properly here.

I think it should stay..Unless the situation gets worse than it already is...

It should all be viewed as a healthy dose of constructive debating! Although we may have gone overboard sometimes, I hope we all leared somethings from each other. Anyway I just wanted to apologize to Moody or anyone else I may have offended. I hope we can all get things back to the way they were :)

Other members who probably were upset because of the bust up that took place between themselves and other members, don't leave the forums cause you got offended or somethin, we'd like not to lose anyone and the number of Bahraini forumers is on the rise, which is great considerin that there has only been one for the last 3 years or so.

It should all be viewed as a healthy dose of constructive debating! Although we may have gone overboard sometimes, I hope we all leared somethings from each other. Anyway I just wanted to apologize to Moody or anyone else I may have offended. I hope we can all get things back to the way they were :)

Man,,

Please don't apologize, We're all brothers:)

I'll ask for the title of this thread to be changed to Bahrain's Issues, better that way.