Is there a single state, county, city or town that would meet the criteria of an underdeveloped country, as a seperate entity from the United States?

The rural area of coastal Alabama, Mississippi and Lousiana come very close. Some people there live in much worse conditions than what I've seen in Egypt and elsewhere. There are entire stretches of countryside there that are more impoverished and sad than words can describe, and the eastern outskirts of New Orleans aren't a lot better. (though I do loooove New Orleans).

Texas border towns.... !!

Alabama and Mississippi are the two poorest states, but I don't think you could say they have parts which are "third world".

the white house, because its rulled by a 3rd world president:D

You are looking for "third word" in US. however we are looking for "first word" in China.

Not really third world like much of sub-saharan Africa (more like Mexico or Eastern Europe type poor) but places i've been to in the US which I thought were shockingly poor by the standards of a rich country were Clarksdale, Mississippi and Presidio, Texas on the border with Mexico.

Clarksdale

http://www.sobo.co.il/gallery/memphis/images/DSCN1558.jpg

Presidio

http://www.masters-of-photography.com/images/full/shore/shore_presidio.jpg

Also some outer parts of New Orleans and places in the Navajo nation like Tuba City looked pretty poor.

What about South-Central in L.A ?

Northern Minnesota, and the mountain states.

First we need to know what the criteria are...

Most of the Miami area.
Hialeah, Little havana, liberty city, Overtown, Sweetwater, all of NW and so many places in Fort Lauderdale.

Durham, NC Biloxi, Gary, Newark, New Orleans. and so many other places, but most of them are in the South

A lot of places in the South, and Native American reservations

Definitely Miami.

Really Miami? I've heard it's got a high crime rate but I didn't know it was that bad. It's not as poor as some of those texas border towns, native american reservations and alabama/mississippi surely :?:

south bronx? east st. louis? camden?

set up a criteria.
there are mansions in third-world cities but that doesnt make them first-worlders as there are third-world areas in first-world cities, think about it.

Really Miami? I've heard it's got a high crime rate but I didn't know it was that bad. It's not as poor as some of those texas border towns, native american reservations and alabama/mississippi surely :?:


Of course not as poor as those, but still very poor for a large city. It's the second poorest large city in the USA after Cleveland, Ohio (hehe, Miami was founded by a woman from Cleveland. Coincidence?). But yeah, crime is the biggest problem.

I think I need to clear one thing, not all the Texas border towns are poor, place like McAllen, Edinburg, Mission, Laredo, Brownsville and El Paso have some of the highest job growth rate and Salary growth rate in the US. Also Texas border have one of the most beautiful beach in the US - South Padre Island and a wonderful national park - Big Band National Park.

South Padre Island
http://www.pirentals.com/images/views/south-padre-island-view_1.jpg

AL
MS
WV
LA
AK

I think I need to clear one thing, not all the Texas border towns are poor, place like McAllen, Edinburg, Mission, Laredo, Brownsville and El Paso have some of the highest job growth rate and Salary growth rate in the US. Also Texas border have one of the most beautiful beach in the US - South Padre Island and a wonderful national park - Big Band National Park.

Big Bend is beautiful but Presidio looked really poor to me.

I think I need to clear one thing, not all the Texas border towns are poor, place like McAllen, Edinburg, Mission, Laredo, Brownsville and El Paso have some of the highest job growth rate and Salary growth rate in the US. Also Texas border have one of the most beautiful beach in the US - South Padre Island and a wonderful national park - Big Band National Park.

South Padre Island
http://www.pirentals.com/images/views/south-padre-island-view_1.jpg


ehemmm

Then, not all 3rd world cities are poor....
You also have to consider socio-cutural aspects..

Most of the Miami area.
Hialeah, Little havana, liberty city, Overtown, Sweetwater, all of NW and so many places in Fort Lauderdale.

Durham, NC Biloxi, Gary, Newark, New Orleans. and so many other places, but most of them are in the South

Is that some kind of joke? Durham?? New Orleans?? Biloxi?? Newark?? Sure, all those places have gritty parts of town, but so does any city. Paris has gritty neighborhoods, for god's sake. But all the cities listed above also have massive blocks of affluence and culture that easily exceed any kind of seriously-considered "third world" definition.

Well lets talk about what makes a thrid world area.

Since even the worst cities in the US have electricty, running water, and gas for heat, I have a hard time comparing them to slums in developing countries. Also even the poorest of people in the US have access to social programs that are totally unavailable in some developing countries. Almost everywhere in the US has paved roads, and clean water. Even gravel roads in the countryside of the US are better than the dirt roads in some developing countries, that is if there are roads at all. Very few people in the US have to use outhouses and get their water from wells, and to many it is a matter of choice. The US is in no way third world. Yes there are cases of poverty, but let me ask you, would you rather be in poverty in a country like the US, or in certain developing countries?

TheKansan:
If you compare a poor third world country with the US, the obviously US is better.
However, there are relatively ok-ish third world countries like Mexico, Brazil, etc
where a medium-upper level income people have DEFINITELY BETTER standard of living than low imcome people in the US.

I've heard that poverty rates in USA are very high for being the richest and more developed nation in the world, is that true?

nope.. its like 12% .. I am not sure right off right now.

Gary isn't thrid world. Its industralize and a world class city is less than 30 miles away.

nevermind.

TheKansan:
However, there are relatively ok-ish third world countries like Mexico, Brazil, etc
where a medium-upper level income people have DEFINITELY BETTER standard of living than low imcome people in the US.

So your trying to tell us people with more money live in better conditions then poor people? Groundbreaking....

I've heard that poverty rates in USA are very high for being the richest and more developed nation in the world, is that true?

It depends on how you classify poverty. There are two ways to do it: relative and absolute.

Most stats show relative poverty. You take your median national income and figure out how many people live substantially below it. In this measurement, the USA comes out looking somewhat badly because there is a huge gap between the richest and poorest people in America.

Occasionally you see absolute-poverty stats instead. In doing that, you take a certain fixed level of income and figure out how many people live under it -- for instance, how many people make the equivalent of $1 per day or less. In this measurement the USA does extremely well. A poor person in America might make $20,000 a year, which is well above the ordinary income you would find in a third-world country.

This basically confirms what was being said below: there are places in America that are "poor" by our standards, but those standards are some of the highest in the world.

I heard some of US's terrorities in the Pacfic and Carribean is like "Third-World"

^^^
Relative poverty may even rise if the income of the upper echelons rises significantly faster than the income of the masses, that is if nobody is really worse off in absolute terms. So a country may get "relatively" poorer over time even if everybody is having more and more in the pockets.

That is one big difference between the US and Western Europe (EU). While the US have several poor areas and slums, I don't think that phenomenon exists at all in EU (or at least I'd like to think so since I live in Sweden). :)

What about South-Central in L.A ?
Well South Central has a nice part to it too. Its not all slums.
In Hawaii im sure there are some very poor areas, aswell as Southern Texas/Arizona/New Mexico, close to the mexican border.

That is one big difference between the US and Western Europe (EU). While the US have several poor areas and slums, I don't think that phenomenon exists at all in EU (or at least I'd like to think so since I live in Sweden). :)

Yeah, right, no poor areas in the EU, what are you talking about?

Paris and London both have very poor areas as do many cities in Western Europe, there are also very poor places in rural areas especially Spain, Portugal and Southern Italy. If you use the same definition of poverty in Sweden and the USA(earning less than $20,000 per year say) there are also poor people in Sweden.

Poor people in the EU do have advantages over poor people in the US though, at least they all get good free healthcare and schools while better public transport and the different design of most cities means they don't have to buy and run a car

the important aspect of any country with poor people is that maneouverability of the people is defined by the context where they live,so no matter even if the people live in the so called richest country of the world,they are no well off like poor people elsewhere and it therefore become all the more damning when people of that country as in the case of states have limited and occasional public health care acess,then homelessness which is a horror in certain parts of states,as for the present poverty indices cite an increase in poverty in america by more than .3% ie it stands at 12.8% up from 12.5%the previous year.

Indian reservations.

Well lets talk about what makes a thrid world area.

Since even the worst cities in the US have electricty, running water, and gas for heat, I have a hard time comparing them to slums in developing countries. Also even the poorest of people in the US have access to social programs that are totally unavailable in some developing countries. Almost everywhere in the US has paved roads, and clean water. Even gravel roads in the countryside of the US are better than the dirt roads in some developing countries, that is if there are roads at all. Very few people in the US have to use outhouses and get their water from wells, and to many it is a matter of choice. The US is in no way third world. Yes there are cases of poverty, but let me ask you, would you rather be in poverty in a country like the US, or in certain developing countries?

what social programs in US?? US is the developed country with less social programs that exist!! You can get medical treatment for free in Brasil (good in some hospitals, not good in some others, terrible in others), but you will be left to die in US if you dont have a health insurance. Or they will just send you the bill later and you will have to sell your house to pay the hospital and doctors. The brazilian government PAYS any MEDICINE for ANYONE who cannot afford it. That includes also expensive HIV medicines for soropositives.

You can also get free university in Brasil. And the public universities are better than the private ones.

It depends on how you classify poverty. There are two ways to do it: relative and absolute.

Most stats show relative poverty. You take your median national income and figure out how many people live substantially below it. In this measurement, the USA comes out looking somewhat badly because there is a huge gap between the richest and poorest people in America.

Occasionally you see absolute-poverty stats instead. In doing that, you take a certain fixed level of income and figure out how many people live under it -- for instance, how many people make the equivalent of $1 per day or less. In this measurement the USA does extremely well. A poor person in America might make $20,000 a year, which is well above the ordinary income you would find in a third-world country.

This basically confirms what was being said below: there are places in America that are "poor" by our standards, but those standards are some of the highest in the world.


the poor in US definitly are poorer and live worse than low-middle class/middle class in Brasil. But the poor in Brasil live worse than poor people in US. There is also the miserable class... below poverty line.

what social programs in US?? US is the developed country with less social programs that exist!! You can get medical treatment for free in Brasil (good in some hospitals, not good in some others, terrible in others), but you will be left to die in US if you dont have a health insurance. Or they will just send you the bill later and you will have to sell your house to pay the hospital and doctors. The brazilian government PAYS any MEDICINE for ANYONE who cannot afford it. That includes also expensive HIV medicines for soropositives.

This is not an accurate picture of American healthcare. Poor people actually receive decent coverage, and nobody is "left to die". The worst-off are the low-middle class who have just enough money to afford healthcare, so they get charged for it even if it becomes a hardship. But the poor certainly are not kicked to the curb. I recently had a conversation with a homeless man who was given a free glucometer to help control his diabetes... does that happen in Brazil?

You can also get free university in Brasil. And the public universities are better than the private ones.

While university is not always available in America (depends on your state and circumstances), community colleges are easily affordable.

I think I need to clear one thing, not all the Texas border towns are poor, place like McAllen, Edinburg, Mission, Laredo, Brownsville and El Paso have some of the highest job growth rate and Salary growth rate in the US. Also Texas border have one of the most beautiful beach in the US - South Padre Island and a wonderful national park - Big Band National Park.

South Padre Island
http://www.pirentals.com/images/views/south-padre-island-view_1.jpg

Absolutely right!

aint no 3rd world areas anywhere in United states!!!!!!! the poorest of the poor would be crazy if you said Miami or somewhere else was 3rd world.. miami is a fucking paradise for war-damaged somalians.

how about some national parks?

appalachian small towns and rural areas
many parts of the south
native american reservations
all of the NYC boroughs except manhatan
bordertowns USA/Mexico

^ ???

the thing is americans are very ignorant of the world outside the USA

most of them can't tell the difference between let's say Laos and Albania!

in fact most of them have never ever been outside the US, so they just yap and yap and yap about how great the US is, but in reality the USA is just an overrated big country, with a powerful military capable of kicking iraq's ass, other than that the USA isnt much

its movies, united state's biggest export are full of special effects and no acting, most of them arent even worth watching, with few exceptions.

its cars are cheap and replaceable, who wouldnt want a japanese car over an american car!!

its currency is quickly getting weaker and weaker, nowadays most americans cant even afford to go to europe, thank the euro for that.

they got good universities, but if go to these ivy league colleges, you'll realize they are mostly filled with rich foreigners.

their high school and primary school education is pretty much among the worst in the world, national geographic conducted a survey and found out that 63% of the 1,000 highschool grads they interviewed could not locate their own state on a US map.

and most americans just give opinions about other cultures or peoples based on stereotypes they have of other cultures, and peoples etc. God knows what they might imagine when they hear the term third world, they probably picture a war zone like place with no education, no basic things in life, shoot they might even think people in the so called third world doesnt even know what electricity is!!!

yes the USA has PLENTY OF THIRD WORLD LIKE PLACES

go to brooklin NYC, drive around louisiana, go to east LA, and you'll feel like you're in a third world shanty town.

i have been to shanty towns before in africa and other parts of the world, and all of them have electricity and running water.

Any place without the option of rail or public transportation service could be classified as 3rd World.

Parts of any major US city (except Boston) have 3rd worldish areas. I think its a good thing though. It makes life interesting and educational to see people living in boxes below mansions in the hills. It clearly shows how naive and blind we are to our own country's woes. As if we really give a shit about our own.

Puerto Rico and some of the Carribean islands would be the closest we have though. Don't mock the 3rd world. Most of the world's interesting cuisine comes from it.

"the thing is americans are very ignorant of the world outside the USA

most of them can't tell the difference between let's say Laos and Albania!"

Colombian girl I'm afraid you are the ignorant one dear. I know about those places and I am an American.

most third world countries have some of the most amazing, colorful, diverse cultures


culturally speaking, socially speaking, educationally speaking the USA is one of the most underdeveloped nations on the planet.

what is american culture? driving an SUV in the drive thru of taco bell, and then going to watch american idol on tv?

socially speaking the USA is full of prejudice, and racial and ethnic segregation, i couldnt believe my eyes how in some parts of nyc people of certain ethnic backgrounds cant walk around certain neighborhoods without being harrased by the cops, or without having a bunch of teens of x ethnicity come and kick ur butt because ur of Y ethnicity, the KKK and more.

educationally, look at the gigantic number of americans on the mid west, appalachia, the south and even in cities like NYC and LA who are mobidly fat, uneducated, loud, rude, ghetto acting.

so yes the USA has a lot of pretty ran down areas, and as time goes by more and more the USA becomes worst.

"the thing is americans are very ignorant of the world outside the USA

most of them can't tell the difference between let's say Laos and Albania!"

Colombian girl I'm afraid you are the ignorant one dear. I know about those places and I am an American. Do you know anything about the US?

I am not saying all americans are bad, many arent, many americans are smart, great individuals.

but many americans act as if the USA was this inmaculated place, heaven on earth
and is not

the USA is very overrated, and only when you go to the USA and live there, and then u live in other cultures, you realize this

Brooklyn and Queens are Third World? No slums in the EU?

That's fucking hysterical.

Which isn't to say that conditions of abject poverty don't exist in the US, of course, particularly in rural areas in the Deep South, but also in places like backwoods Maine, Ohio and Pennsylvania, the last of which has a very high rural poverty rate. In terms of cities, Newark and similar post-industrial centers are in states of advanced decay, although it should be pointed out that they resemble paradise itself when compared with, say, Lodz or Bradford.

Columbiagirl, I hope you enjoy your life in the paradise of culture and opportunity that is your native land. Let me see, you wouldn't happen to live in Bogata, now, would you?

I hear the nightlife there is very lively.

I am not saying all americans are bad, many arent, many americans are smart, great individuals.

but many americans act as if the USA was this inmaculated place, heaven on earth
and is not

the USA is very overrated, and only when you go to the USA and live there, and then u live in other cultures, you realize this


another anti-american troll ...


looking for every opportunity to bashing America when nobody is being arrogant or rude.


maybe just another complex of inferiority from the south.

My partner is from Trinidad, which might be considered 3rd world, and has travelled all over South Asia and Africa. He assures me that Gary, Indiana is worse than any "third world" city he's visited.

"the USA is very overrated, and only when you go to the USA and live there, and then u live in other cultures, you realize this"

I agree that parts of the US are.

"the USA is very overrated, and only when you go to the USA and live there, and then u live in other cultures, you realize this"

I agree that parts of the US are.


Of course the same if you go to live to the worse in France, China or Mars :D

Actually the worse of France would be northen cities like Roubaix, the northen parisian suburbs, or some parts of Marseille, and those canno't be compared with abandoned places in some part of the US, which are much worse.

But Colombian girl oversimplifies things (there is maybe the language barrier as well), the US, like everywhere, has its goods and bads, but it's true many of its citizen think of it as the center of the world simply by lack of culture.

Gary, IN, is indeed a toliet, but I'm not sure that it's third world. Industrial pollution is a disaster, but not the lack of basic facilities (plumbing, electricity, paved roads) that many third world regions suffer from, no? Gary, IN, is TOO developed.

In the "3rd world" cities I have visited (Bangkok, Manila, Jakarta, Mexico City), the general "look and feel" of the area is generally better or comparible with Gary, Indiana.

colombian_girl, the only person sterotyping a country is you.

what is american culture? driving an SUV in the drive thru of taco bell, and then going to watch american idol on tv?

You are not allowed to respond further until and unless you have studied the following cultures present in the United States:

Gullah
Cherokee
Lumbee
Catawba
Pasquotank
Penobscot
Iroquois
Mohawk
Sioux
Blackfeet
Navajo
Cajun
Chickasaw
Seminole
Apache
Nez Perce
Aleut
Hawaiian
Coushatta
Arapahoe
Assiniboine
Cabazon
Caddo
Cheyenne
Chippewa
Chinook
Chitimacha
Choctaw
Cocopah
Comanche
Coos
Coquille
Creek
Umpqua
Elwha...

Shall I continue?

well i understand and i know that many millions of americans, are not fat, stupid, ignorant, and arrogant

I know this by heart, because i have had many american acquantainces who were very nice, wordly people

i dont intend to make it sound as if i am ytrashing the USA, my language skills in english are not the best, and it might sound as if i am trying to trash but i am not, i am trying to simplify it, and it is very hard because english is not my first language.

Colombian girl, please. You are ignorant about NYC. All of the boroughs are third world? Give me a break.

Many of the world's richest people live in Manhatten ^

I lived in Mississippi for 4 years. This state along with Alabama and Louisiana have been brought up several times. I assure you these states have many filthy rich areas but unfortunately there are many lazy people down there who do not care about anything, do not want to work and live off wellfare. Many comments I noticed come from people who did not see many areas in the US and commit the fallacy of composition, generalizing after a few examples of poverty. I was born in Europe, but I moved to the U.S. in 1995 and I have seen 23 states so far. I can assure you that it is a very rich country and if you drive across many states like I sometimes do you can see the wealth and might of the American economy and the standard of living. I know many wealthy American families and Europeans can only dream about living in such conditions unless they were born with a proper name that enables them to belong to a certain group of aristocracy. I am better off than most of my friends in Europe, including France Germany and Poland and it is because we have lower taxes and less socialist policies than the rest of the world (and nobody is complaining about that). There are really no third world areas and if there are ones that come close, it is mostly caused by the lazy people themselves because America is a land of opportunity and even if you screw up and land in prison you still can get a second chance or even a third. As for the American culture, it is difficult to name one because it has always been the land of immigrants that make up the values of this land and it is a mixture, almost every state has a bit different culture than the other. If you insist, the Anglo-Saxon culture is still dominant with strong Christian values and I love it. The social relations between people are somewhat weaker in the United States than let's say in some countries in Europe such as Slavic or Mediterranean ones but you need to learn how to approach Americans and you can have friends for life. Maybe they do not know every country's name but how much do foreigners know about particular U.S. states? They are like countries too.
For Colombian girl. Your country's government is not even in full control of your country and you criticize U.S. and its culture, that's funny. Look at Colombia, your corruption, drugs, guerilla warfare - what can you offer?

Many of the world's richest people live in Manhatten ^

Mann soll Manhattan nicht Manhatten schreiben. Die Mehrheit von Leute aus Deutchland schreiben "-en" warum?

[QUOTE]the thing is americans are very ignorant of the world outside the USA

oh and you speak for all 300 million of us then?

most of them can't tell the difference between let's say Laos and Albania!
how the hell would you know?
in fact most of them have never ever been outside the US, so they just yap and yap and yap about how great the US is, but in reality the USA is just an overrated big country, with a powerful military capable of kicking iraq's ass, other than that the USA isnt much
oh and Columbia is a country for fat, sweaty drug lords with gold chains. The regular people are all involved in the drug trade...all too stupid to do anything else. Stereotypes are fun arent they?
its movies, united state's biggest export are full of special effects and no acting, most of them arent even worth watching, with few exceptions.
oh and Hong Kong, Bollywood, and alot of European movies arent? Have you ever seen the boatload of shit these nations produce? Pound for pound...the U.S. does some good things with its cinema. Have you seen all the movies that we have made? Or are you basing your opinion on seeing Scooby Doo 2: Monsters Unleashed?

its cars are cheap and replaceable, who wouldnt want a japanese car over an american car!!

people that like cool cars...not just some Honda clone.

its currency is quickly getting weaker and weaker, nowadays most americans cant even afford to go to europe, thank the euro for that.

and this means? So you basically are saying Americans are too poor to visit Europe....and that makes us a bad nation? Columbians, Russians, South Africans cant all afford to jet set around the world...are they bad people?

they got good universities, but if go to these ivy league colleges, you'll realize they are mostly filled with rich foreigners.
I doubt that. Even if it was...is it a bad thing? Ivy league schools are VERY expensive. Believe it or not..very intelligent people come out of cheaper state schools such as Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, or Michigan.

their high school and primary school education is pretty much among the worst in the world, national geographic conducted a survey and found out that 63% of the 1,000 highschool grads they interviewed could not locate their own state on a US map
that is b.s.

and most americans just give opinions about other cultures or peoples based on stereotypes they have of other cultures, and peoples etc.
and you arent doing that right now? Have you ever been here? People do this in EVERY nation in the world.
God knows what they might imagine when they hear the term third world, they probably picture a war zone like place with no education, no basic things in life, shoot they might even think people in the so called third world doesnt even know what electricity is!!!

the third and fourth world has alot of this. Most places in Afirca have hunger, no electricity, war, plauges, and lack of education. Its not arrogance..its fact.

yes the USA has PLENTY OF THIRD WORLD LIKE PLACES

go to brooklin NYC, drive around louisiana, go to east LA, and you'll feel like you're in a third world shanty town.

Thats not Third World. Its poor and considered slums..but they have access to clean, running water..heathcare, food, religion, jobs, ..etc.

i have been to shanty towns before in africa and other parts of the world, and all of them have electricity and running water

Oh really!? They show alot of poor areas of Africa in National Geographic...and I dont see ANY power lines or pipes. As a matter of fact, I see little techonology.

Mann soll Manhattan nicht Manhatten schreiben. Die Mehrheit von Leute aus Deutchland schreiben "-en" warum?

Traurig schrieb ich schnell

I have lived in Mississippi for 4 years. This state along with Alabama and Louisiana have been brought up several times. I assure you these states have many filthy rich areas but unfortunately there are many lazy people down there who do not care about anything, do not want to work and live off wellfare. Many comments I noticed come from people who did not see many areas in the US and commit the fallacy of composition, generalizing after a few examples of poverty. I was born in Europe, but I moved to the U.S. in 1995 and I have seen 23 states so far. I can assure you that it is a very rich country and if you drive across many states like I sometimes do you can see the wealth and might of the American economy and the standard of living. I know many wealthy American families and Europeans can only dream about living in such conditions unless they were born with a proper name that enables them to belong to a certain group of aristocracy. I am better off than most of my friends in Europe, including France Germany and Poland and it is because we have lower taxes and less socialist policies than the rest of the world (and nobody is complaining about that). There are really no third world areas and if there are ones that come close, it is mostly caused by the lazy people themselves because America is a land of opportunity and even if you screw up and land in prison you still can get a second chance or even a third. As for the American culture, it is difficult to name one because it has always been the land of immigrants that make up the values of this land and it is a mixture, almost every state has a bit different culture than the other. If you insist, the Anglo-Saxon culture is still dominant with strong Christian values and I love it. The social relations between people are somewhat weaker in the United States than let's say in some countries in Europe such as Slavic or Mediterranean ones but you need to learn how to approach Americans and you can have friends for life. Maybe they do not know every country's name but how much do foreigners know about particular U.S. states? They are like countries too.
For Colombian girl. Your country's government is not even in full control of your country and you criticize U.S. and its culture, that's funny. Look at Colombia, your corruption, drugs, guerilla warfare - what can you offer?

I live in one of the aforementioned states, Alabama. And although I do not like a lot of the evangelical christian culture that's widely present in this state, in my everyday life, it does not bother me all that much. There are plenty of decent, moderate and even liberal, middle class people living here as well. In general, the northern half of the state is better off that the southern half. The only place in the US i've been to that I've seen anything close to 3rd world poverty in is the Mississippi Valley region in western Arkansas and parts of Mississippi and Lousiana, but even Mississippi isn't all that bad for the whole state.

As for me personally, my family would be classified as upper middle class according to income, but my dad grew up on a poor farm in the 1930's in rural Illinois. My mom grew up in what was then a third world country, Korea... and they "made it" through hard work and a little luck.

I don't like my President, I'll say that... but I owe everything to this country, and to see people just grotesquely stereotype the place is a bit disheartening. Thanks for making such a meaningful post. ;)

EDIT: Not only that, but many of the "lazy" people you describe are white trash too... sad but true.

[QUOTE=colombian_girl]most third world countries have some of the most amazing, colorful, diverse cultures

so does the United States. Just because they arent poor, doesnt make them less amazing.

culturally speaking, socially speaking, educationally speaking the USA is one of the most underdeveloped nations on the planet

are you an idiot? We have some of the best universities, most diverse cities, and some of the best museums and educational institutions. Answer that?

what is american culture? driving an SUV in the drive thru of taco bell, and then going to watch american idol on tv?

What is Columbian culture? Driving a jeep through the jungle, picking up Juan, then going to the druglords manor to help him count profits and determine which rival they are going to kill?

socially speaking the USA is full of prejudice, and racial and ethnic segregation, i couldnt believe my eyes how in some parts of nyc people of certain ethnic backgrounds cant walk around certain neighborhoods without being harrased by the cops, or without having a bunch of teens of x ethnicity come and kick ur butt because ur of Y ethnicity, the KKK and more

so are most nations. There is racism in every nation. How about the people who get beaten to death in Indonesia for being a Christian? Or the people who get their heads chopped off in the Middle East for being a Jew? How about being gay in Saudi Arabia? Oh, did you know that there is alot of racism against blacks in Europe as well? Im sure there is alot in South American as well.

educationally, look at the gigantic number of americans on the mid west, appalachia, the south and even in cities like NYC and LA who are mobidly fat, uneducated, loud, rude, ghetto acting.

Why dont you live up here before you run your mouth ok? I do live up here...the Midwest. We have some of the best schools. We have some of the safest cities. We have some of the friendliest cities. It is very cold for alot of months...people gain weight. Its not like people who live in a warm weather climate year round. People dont leave their houses in winter up here..due to dangers of the road, as well as it being so cold. Most people in the north gain weight in winter...and dont lose it. Theres nothing you really can do about it.

so yes the USA has a lot of pretty ran down areas, and as time goes by more and more the USA becomes worst

like Bogata?

as a current but thankfully not lifelong Miami resident i am kind of surprised that Miami and even NY are on this list. The poverty in both is astonishing at times, but I have to agree that the more rural poor towns are more deprived/depressed because of access and isolation.

Someone earlier made a great comment about access to programs, urban people have much more access and opportunity than most rural people. Not that its easier to be poor in ny than say alabama, but alabama can be much less accessible. I mean some rural poor US have no plumbing or heating/cooling let alone schools clinics or outreach programs. thats a whole other level of access to resources. IMHO :)

colombian_girl...

you are about to get a one-way ticket to being banned if you continue with your american bashing.

I am surprised to here this from someone with a colombian background. I live in miami where there are a lot of colombians, i have several close friends who are colombian.
The comments you made about america are as naive as the ones that could be made about colombia with kidnappings cartels cocaine coffee and donkeys. Ridiculous!!! Y tu sabes ingles muy bien, y escribirlo casi perfecto. so i wouldn't attribute it to being lost in translation. (mi espanol es mal porque soy un 'gringo')
It seems though that you only know the USA through george bush abc cbs nbc and fox. The depth and variety of societies in the US is very difficult to put on one stereotype; es la verdad en colombia tambien. :cheers:

uffff...

this thread is getting worse and worse...

as a European... that's what I think about the poverty in the US:

-differences between rich and poor people in the same city are huge, and that's something I hate. And this people aren't poor because of your "high standards" friends, they're truly poor.

-Anyway, I think that differences between different "places" are much bigger within the EU. That's true, just compare Luxembourg with Poland :p

-I visited the ghetto in Portland OR (which is supposed to be quite a smart city isn't it?) and it was certainly very poor, poorer than almost any place in my own country, which is the Basque Country, "in Spain" for you. However, the rich suburbs were indeed rich.

-I prefere to live here, where we've very few horrible neighbourhoods very few towns. Most places here don't look like the rich suburbs in Portland, that's true! but every place looks much better than this "ghetto"s I saw, and they weren't small areas or exceptions. I didn't like that at all

-Anyway, for the people who are criticising the USA: calm down! they've some negative aspects but it's not as bad as you say. Of course, it's not as perfect as some upper-class americans think neither! It's a place with good and bad things, and the good places are still wider than the horrible ones, even if the last ones are bigger and bigger.

see ya

I lived in Mississippi for 4 years. This state along with Alabama and Louisiana have been brought up several times. I assure you these states have many filthy rich areas but unfortunately there are many lazy people down there who do not care about anything, do not want to work and live off wellfare. Many comments I noticed come from people who did not see many areas in the US and commit the fallacy of composition, generalizing after a few examples of poverty. I was born in Europe, but I moved to the U.S. in 1995 and I have seen 23 states so far. I can assure you that it is a very rich country and if you drive across many states like I sometimes do you can see the wealth and might of the American economy and the standard of living. I know many wealthy American families and Europeans can only dream about living in such conditions unless they were born with a proper name that enables them to belong to a certain group of aristocracy. I am better off than most of my friends in Europe, including France Germany and Poland and it is because we have lower taxes and less socialist policies than the rest of the world (and nobody is complaining about that). There are really no third world areas and if there are ones that come close, it is mostly caused by the lazy people themselves because America is a land of opportunity and even if you screw up and land in prison you still can get a second chance or even a third. As for the American culture, it is difficult to name one because it has always been the land of immigrants that make up the values of this land and it is a mixture, almost every state has a bit different culture than the other. If you insist, the Anglo-Saxon culture is still dominant with strong Christian values and I love it. The social relations between people are somewhat weaker in the United States than let's say in some countries in Europe such as Slavic or Mediterranean ones but you need to learn how to approach Americans and you can have friends for life. Maybe they do not know every country's name but how much do foreigners know about particular U.S. states? They are like countries too.
For Colombian girl. Your country's government is not even in full control of your country and you criticize U.S. and its culture, that's funny. Look at Colombia, your corruption, drugs, guerilla warfare - what can you offer?

"I assure you these states have many filthy rich areas but unfortunately there are many lazy people down there who do not care about anything, do not want to work and live off wellfare."

"lazy" people? well thats extremely grown-up of you. a lot of people arent suited (as well as you obviously are) to living and thriving in an economy driven capitalist society. there are a great number of cultural, social, or economic factors that prevent many people from taking full advantage of the consumer, and market-driven economy and society that prevails in america and many other countries. they might be good at other things instead, like maybe being nice people or good parents, or some other skill that doesnt contribute directly to the growth of the u.s. economy. but apparently this is just not good enough for you. they are just "lazy".
if someone doesnt have a job, or finds it hard to succeed in this capitalist environment, is it necessarily their fault? are all poor people "lazy"? is labeling poor people "lazy" one of the most stupid, insular, self-important, and unattractive things a person can do?

your use of the term "down there" indicates that you consider these people too far away and unimportant to be of concern to you and your mighty significance.

"I can assure you that it is a very rich country and if you drive across many states like I sometimes do you can see the wealth and might of the American economy and the standard of living."

that is, of course, providing you completely ignore those who grew up on the wrong side of the tracks, which you seem to take great satisfaction from doing. is it entirely acceptable that america's wealth is so polarised that some people are just screwed from the moment they are born? i would encourage you to argue your point with someone from chicago's south side projects, or the south bronx or comparable places.

"I know many wealthy American families and Europeans can only dream about living in such conditions unless they were born with a proper name that enables them to belong to a certain group of aristocracy."

many people (most people, probably) prioritise other more important things in life over getting as rich as possible. in general, simply being wealthy isnt all that impressive, or even attractive. but well done to them all anyway.

"I am better off than most of my friends in Europe, including France Germany and Poland and it is because we have lower taxes and less socialist policies than the rest of the world (and nobody is complaining about that)."

good for you mate. if that makes you happy then i guess thats great. higher taxes mean higher public spending, don't they? lowering taxes is simply a way of winning votes.

"There are really no third world areas and if there are ones that come close, it is mostly caused by the lazy people themselves because America is a land of opportunity and even if you screw up and land in prison you still can get a second chance or even a third."

that is an amazing statement. i agree, i dont believe there are any third world areas in america, but that whole paragraph demonstrates a complete lack of understanding/knowledge of how people and society work and interacts, particularly the poor, who are "lazy", and should be kept at arms length. get out more!

"As for the American culture, it is difficult to name one because it has always been the land of immigrants that make up the values of this land and it is a mixture, almost every state has a bit different culture than the other."
"Maybe they do not know every country's name but how much do foreigners know about particular U.S. states? They are like countries too."

agreed there, and im a foreigner, and ive never been to america.

"Look at Colombia, your corruption, drugs, guerilla warfare - what can you offer?"

what an idiotic question. what the fuck do you mean exactly? colombia is a whole country. it has loads to offer. colombian girl said some ill advised things, but colombia is probably a great place. maybe colombia isnt trying to offer everything it has to the united states, maybe not every country in the world wants to do that. you spoilt little bastard.

btw i dont think most americans are like you, and im sure some of them are a little embarrassed by your arrogance, after reading your post.

"I assure you these states have many filthy rich areas but unfortunately there are many lazy people down there who do not care about anything, do not want to work and live off wellfare."

"lazy" people? well thats extremely grown-up of you. a lot of people arent suited (as well as you obviously are) to living and thriving in an economy driven capitalist society. there are a great number of cultural, social, or economic factors that prevent many people from taking full advantage of the consumer, and market-driven economy and society that prevails in america and many other countries. they might be good at other things instead, like maybe being nice people or good parents, or some other skill that doesnt contribute directly to the growth of the u.s. economy. but apparently this is just not good enough for you. they are just "lazy".
if someone doesnt have a job, or finds it hard to succeed in this capitalist environment, is it necessarily their fault? are all poor people "lazy"? is labeling poor people "lazy" one of the most stupid, insular, self-important, and unattractive things a person can do?

your use of the term "down there" indicates that you consider these people too far away and unimportant to be of concern to you and your mighty significance.

"I can assure you that it is a very rich country and if you drive across many states like I sometimes do you can see the wealth and might of the American economy and the standard of living."

that is, of course, providing you completely ignore those who grew up on the wrong side of the tracks, which you seem to take great satisfaction from doing. is it entirely acceptable that america's wealth is so polarised that some people are just screwed from the moment they are born? i would encourage you to argue your point with someone from chicago's south side projects, or the south bronx or comparable places.

"I know many wealthy American families and Europeans can only dream about living in such conditions unless they were born with a proper name that enables them to belong to a certain group of aristocracy."

many people (most people, probably) prioritise other more important things in life over getting as rich as possible. in general, simply being wealthy isnt all that impressive, or even attractive. but well done to them all anyway.

"I am better off than most of my friends in Europe, including France Germany and Poland and it is because we have lower taxes and less socialist policies than the rest of the world (and nobody is complaining about that)."

good for you mate. if that makes you happy then i guess thats great. higher taxes mean higher public spending, don't they? lowering taxes is simply a way of winning votes.

"There are really no third world areas and if there are ones that come close, it is mostly caused by the lazy people themselves because America is a land of opportunity and even if you screw up and land in prison you still can get a second chance or even a third."

that is an amazing statement. i agree, i dont believe there are any third world areas in america, but that whole paragraph demonstrates a complete lack of understanding/knowledge of how people and society work and interacts, particularly the poor, who are "lazy", and should be kept at arms length. get out more!

"As for the American culture, it is difficult to name one because it has always been the land of immigrants that make up the values of this land and it is a mixture, almost every state has a bit different culture than the other."
"Maybe they do not know every country's name but how much do foreigners know about particular U.S. states? They are like countries too."

agreed there, and im a foreigner, and ive never been to america.

"Look at Colombia, your corruption, drugs, guerilla warfare - what can you offer?"

what an idiotic question. what the fuck do you mean exactly? colombia is a whole country. it has loads to offer. colombian girl said some ill advised things, but colombia is probably a great place. maybe colombia isnt trying to offer everything it has to the united states, maybe not every country in the world wants to do that. you spoilt little bastard.

btw i dont think most americans are like you, and im sure some of them are a little embarrassed by your arrogance, after reading your post.

Listen, obviously you know very little about American reality, where do you get all the information from? The movies? Lots of the poverty in states like Alabama, Mississippi and Arkansas are due to the mentality of the people there. I know seven doctors from countries including Poland, Croatia, Romania and Egypt who work in that state and know the local customs and population. A lot of people do not want to work, nor have any ambitions to achieve anything in life and prefer to draw a welfare check, they always come to hospitals to treat even insignificant illneses and abuse the system, (not all of them but a large number) that is one of the reasons Medicaid in Mississippi is failing. ("down there" was used as a georaphical referrence - down south from the place where I am writing from). I was born in a not so wealthy family in Poland too but it seems that little ambition and determination to achieve some goals in life has helped me in making it successful. I am not using references of wealth in order to exalt myself or put money at the altar of life but to say that it is relatively easy to achieve success in the U.S. and in my opinion easier than in Europe. I didn't say a word about making it my aim in life so let's not jump to hasty conclusions.
As for the paragraph regarding Colombia it was an answer to Colombian girl. I am sick and tired of people from other countries criticizing the U.S. and knowing nothing of it, look at your countries. their values and systems of government, politics and the day to day reality and then maybe attempt to bring up some objective criticism. I also didn't call anybody any names so you calling me a bastard was little too much and do not really give good testimony to your people but I know that the U.K. is not so leftist as your views are and much of (old) Europe's.

yeah, I agree with what people said about Columbia. If people are going to sit there and stereotype about America every five seconds, then I am going to stereotype about their nation.

Other than maybe the homeless...there is no "third world" conditions in the USA at all.

Lots of trailer trash, hillbillies, etc...there's plenty of "bad taste"...even poverty...but the "third world" is a place where no matter how hard you try, you aint gett'n ahead.





KGB

Listen, obviously you know very little about American reality, where do you get all the information from? The movies? Lots of the poverty in states like Alabama, Mississippi and Arkansas are due to the mentality of the people there. I know seven doctors from countries including Poland, Croatia, Romania and Egypt who work in that state and know the local customs and population. A lot of people do not want to work, nor have any ambitions to achieve anything in life and prefer to draw a welfare check, they always come to hospitals to treat even insignificant illneses and abuse the system, (not all of them but a large number) that is one of the reasons Medicaid in Mississippi is failing. ("down there" was used as a georaphical referrence - down south from the place where I am writing from). I was born in a not so wealthy family in Poland too but it seems that little ambition and determination to achieve some goals in life has helped me in making it successful. I am not using references of wealth in order to exalt myself or put money at the altar of life but to say that it is relatively easy to achieve success in the U.S. and in my opinion easier than in Europe. I didn't say a word about making it my aim in life so let's not jump to hasty conclusions.
As for the paragraph regarding Colombia it was an answer to Colombian girl. I am sick and tired of people from other countries criticizing the U.S. and knowing nothing of it, look at your countries. their values and systems of government, politics and the day to day reality and then maybe attempt to bring up some objective criticism. I also didn't call anybody any names so you calling me a bastard was little too much and do not really give good testimony to your people but I know that the U.K. is not so leftist as your views are and much of (old) Europe's.

"Listen, obviously you know very little about American reality, where do you get all the information from? The movies?"

??? ok ive not been there, but im not naive enough to base any judgment purely on movies or fiction. however, wealth in america is highly polarized, is it not? it is in the uk as well, we have pretty extreme regional poverty here for a western nation, so i am familiar with this concept. also i take an interest in aspects of social geography, so i am modestly knowledgable, as i imagine most people looking at this thread would be.
im not blaming people specifically, but a culture of ignorance. it isnt fair.

"Lots of the poverty in states like Alabama, Mississippi and Arkansas are due to the mentality of the people there."

there will obviously be much deeper social, cultural and possibly geographical reasons than that. or this mentality is caused by those reasons. i think you need to experience the real world a bit mate. africa is not poor because africans have an inferior mentality. society is incredibly diverse and complex - and some people always get boned. anyway, maybe not everyone aspires to your standards, people are individuals.

"("down there" was used as a georaphical referrence - down south from the place where I am writing from)."

yeah i know that! i didnt mean it like that, lets leave that one.

"I was born in a not so wealthy family in Poland too but it seems that little ambition and determination to achieve some goals in life has helped me in making it successful."

ok fair enough, but not everyones ambitions are the same. other peoples idea of success will be different, theres nothing wrong with that.

"As for the paragraph regarding Colombia it was an answer to Colombian girl. I am sick and tired of people from other countries criticizing the U.S. and knowing nothing of it, look at your countries. their values and systems of government, politics and the day to day reality and then maybe attempt to bring up some objective criticism."

yep there is too much anti americanism, and most of it is over the top. objective criticism is always a good thing, tho.

"I also didn't call anybody any names so you calling me a bastard was little too much and do not really give good testimony to your people"

yeah sorry i got carried away. however no 2 people in the uk are clones mate, everyone is an individual, so please dont judge like that.

"but I know that the U.K. is not so leftist as your views are and much of (old) Europe's."

errrm, i just have my opinion, please dont label me. its not like everyone must fit into a certain category. most people i know have similar views to me generally although i admit that the uk can be annoyingly intolerant to change at times. im not sure what leftist means in this context - im just trying to promote the idea that people, cultures and society are diverse, and its not fair to expect everyone else to hold the same values and aspirations. you have remarked on "lazy" people in the south. maybe they would consider you "lazy" for a completely different reason. also, what is old europe? ive heard the term before.

yeah, I agree with what people said about Columbia. If people are going to sit there and stereotype about America every five seconds, then I am going to stereotype about their nation.

or better still, dont.

I have most of the time. Im just sick and tired of peoples stereotypes. Its all cool to lump 300 million people into one big group, but godforbid someone stereotype Europe or South America.

Alabama and Mississippi are the two poorest states, but I don't think you could say they have parts which are "third world".

Especially considering that Mississippi, the poorest state, is no poorer than Spain in terms of income per head.

I've been to Southern Alabama, and it was much nicer than I thought it would be. It wasn't highly populated, as there were many large farms, and an occasional town with row-houses. The beaches in Alabama's gulf islands are full of rich people with mansions. The beaches in themselves are some of the best in the US, with that beautiful white sand. There was this town called "Fairhope" which was an affluent town with a surprisingly active center, full of expensive shops. In fact, the eastern coast of Mobile Bay is a quiet, peaceful, where you see many family's on vacation going fishing or relaxing.

Southern Mississippi looked pretty poor for US standards. Having said that, Biloxi is interesting and actually has some nice historical areas.

This is the S. Alabama coast.

http://www.gulfcondosales.com/images/PerdidoBeach.jpg

http://www.gulfshoresreservations.com/KivaOverhead.jpg

http://www.gulfshoresreservations.com/KivaOverhead2.jpg

http://occasionaltourist.com/gallery/images/388.jpg

You can't sand like that anywhere else. The beaches are also empty.

I've never been to America and I don´t know so much about the subject we are discussing about. I just wanted to post some pics found in google. Of course, these images don´t prove anything. I know we can find pics like this from any country in the world, i just found interesting to post them here.


http://www.bized.ac.uk/images/navajo_reservation.jpg
^ navajo reservation

http://www.american-pictures.com/gallery/usa/new397-a.jpg
^ Georgia, 1989.

http://www.theeveryman.com/static2003/images/2003/em03p/014_11A.jpg
^ California

http://arabic.cnn.com/2004/business/9/5/us.poverty/story.poverty.jpg~1094361971012965200.jpg
^ New York

http://www.nubar.com/realstock_images/f987-1-7.jpg
^ South Carolina

http://www.thercg.org/images/us&bc/small/poverty.jpg
^ 1962

http://asms.k12.ar.us/armem/wright/front.GIF
^ Arkansas, 1960's


http://www.shareintl.org/archives/images/cphome2.jpg
^ somewhere in America

http://www.phototour.minneapolis.mn.us/pics/3463.jpg
^ minneapolis

http://www.sublimephotography.co.uk/people/peoplebig/homeless.jpg

http://www.doublemirrors.com/nyc/homeless.jpg
^ New York

http://www.subgenius.com/bigfist/fun/devivals/7XDay/Dec-Frop/images/nyc-homeless.jpg
^ New York

http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/6399/homeless.jpg

http://www.photo.net/photo/pcd0158/homeless-in-washington-dc-13.4.jpg
^ Washington

http://www.anatol.org/images/america/america1/images/sandiego-homeless.jpg
^ San Diego


http://interpreters.free.fr/pics/US%20poverty%20FT.jpg
^ poverty

http://lilt.ilstu.edu/gmklass/COW2/0108021.gif
^ poverty rates

*** had to edit out a risque photo.

^^^ Ahhh dude were the old guys really necessary? Really?

I've heard that Mississippi was pretty poor, but I have never personally seen it. And also McAllen and areas close to South Padre Island, TX are pretty poor.

And lmao at Presidio, TX, I never knew there was a place that bad in Texas, it looks like the set of a western movie.

And damn, ReddAlert made a killing.

Many of those pictures were deceiving--a few of them were outdated, and a couple others seemed incredibly unlikely; if kids today were living in those conditions, they'd be taken in by the DHS.

:redx:
^ El Paso, 1980's

LOLOLOLOL woooooo! i've said it once and i'll say it again: elderly people suck! :lol:

Many of those pictures were deceiving--a few of them were outdated, and a couple others seemed incredibly unlikely; if kids today were living in those conditions, they'd be taken in by the DHS.

true

And damn, ReddAlert made a killing.

thank you :)

http://www.masters-of-photography.com/images/full/shore/shore_presidio.jpg
is that man what you americaners call "redneck"?
i have heard that word a lot and as i read, is like him
am i right?

One of the considerations for this debate is to consider the scale of the United States. It is the biggest developed nation in the world, and as a result, is bound to have some of the most extreme examples of the pros and cons of capitalism.

It is naive to claim that US poverty is comparable to third world countries, and shows disrespect to those people in the world who literally have nothing, in the slums of Mumbai, Darfour in Sudan, Bandah Acheh in Indonesia. The United States can still feed their population, and can send an ambulance if someone is dying in the middle of a road.

However, in a society that rewards the successful with greater riches than anywhere else, it also shuns the destitute, and tends to sweep them under the metaphorical carpet. One of the biggest contrasts I've seen is to catch a greyhound bus from North Hollywood, CA to Carson City, NV. Leaving perhaps the richest municipality in the world, it takes less than an hour to find yourself in Ridgecrest and Mojave, where there are literally trailer-park cities. People aren't starving there in the desert, but rather are mostly obese, from what I assume is a staple diet of junk food available at the myriad truck stops and take-away food restuarants. There are no trees or public spaces, just a human blot on a bleak expanse of windswept wasteland. It's hard to believe you are so close to the glitz and excess of Beverley Hills and Hollywood.

I've seen more homeless people in Paris railway stations, and more run-down areas in Northern England, but it seems that nowhere in Europe are the extremes more segregated than in the US. It's the attitude in the US that is extreme - wealth makes you a good person, and poverty makes you a loser.

Poverty in the US is nowhere near third world poverty. You're much better off being homeless in the US than some third world nation. In the US its possible to be born poor and die rich. In other countries if you're born poor, thats how you'll live your entire life.

In the US its possible to be born poor and die rich. In other countries if you're born poor, thats how you'll live your entire life.

That's true of all developed countries though and most people who are born poor stay poor even in the US, a few rags to riches stories don't change that.

It would be interesting to know hao many people live on less than say $15,000 per year in the US and compare that proportion to other developed countries, measuring poverty using 60% of median income or whatever is useless as median income varies considerably from country to country.

Nowhere in the US is genuinely third world but some areas are very deprived that's for sure.

^Well if there is anything the US differs in even with other developed countries, it's probably the number of people who are permanently in poverty. Few Americans are impoverished over the course of their entire lives. Rags to riches stories are rare, but rags to middle class is still very common in the US, especially with the immigrant populations. It's an ever-changing nation.

Take for example the current hispanic population and immigration to the US. While it is easy to look at statistics and see that hispanics continuously have only 1/2 the average income of blacks or 1/3 of what whites have (those numbers might not be exact), that doesn't imply a lack of social or economic mobility. Many of those hispanic families move from poor working class to middle class within a generation, but their former positions in the working class are replaced by more recent immigrants.

The US is not an economically egalitarian society (socialist), rather it's very socially egalitarian. The capitalist system of inequality of wealth is merely a reflection of that, not a cause, and to understand that, one needs to study American history post 1800.

I don't think the poor in the US live any worse, if at all, than the poor in Europe. Poor people in the US have access to gov't healthcare (Medicaid), and welfare compensation, provided they show some stable employment. If you're willing to work, the government does help you... but you have to be willing to work, and ease of employment is only guaranteed in a free market socially egalitarian society, where you aren't turned away from most jobs (the ones that don't require a college education) because of your address.

I'm not sure that the poor in the US don't live worse off than the poor in other countries. In Germany I'm told that there is often a disincentive to work because welfare checks are more generous than there already generous minimum wage. and the biggest difference is the healthcare. very few poor americans receive health care.

incidentally, I grew up in poverty according to government statistics (though I did have health care and my childhood was quite happy). but I am now doing quite well for myself. I think the difference between me and many of my friends that are stuck back home is that I had the imagination to find a better life. It didn't hurt that I did well in school, and was encouraged to do so by my parents. what many people don't understand about poor america is that there is a culture there that's kind of self limiting. Its hard to escape.

that being said, I agree with Rail and think its easier to become middle class in america than in many countries. If I am poor in america my last name does not necessarily give me away as poor, my accent can change, and the housing market is so fluid that we take it for granted that you can move anywhere (not the case in all countries).

I mean, lets look at the evidence. Every successive year the US has as many immigrants as anywhere in the world(13 million came in the '90s (http://www.urban.org/Template.cfm?NavMenuID=24&template=/TaggedContent/ViewPublication.cfm&PublicationID=7994), more than any other decade in history). Most of these people are unskilled laborers, many of whom are poorer than the poorest americans (http://www.swlearning.com/economics/policy_debates/immigration.html). Furthermore, the poor in our society have the highest birthrates. So every year there is a guaranteed increase in impoverished people relative to rich people, yet the rate of poverty usually does not rise. Instead, it stays roughly the same. to put it simply, poor people are leaving poverty in America every year, the poverty rate just doesn't reflect this because more poor people keep coming (I like immigration, for the record).

though like any place, it could certainly help poor people out a little more.

whatever u say, Alabama, and states like that cannot cannot cannot compare to Africa in terms of poverty, its a fact, the USA is a very easy place to make more money than in Africa

http://www.atpm.com/7.01/washington-dc/images/white-house.jpg

what's so deceiving about these pictures...i dont understand but one thing is sure im apalled by what i have seen in those pictures,even though some of the picutres being dated....they aint dated that enough to not form a judgement bout american poor.common being the richest and most developed nation in the world how come that happened i mean look at the condition, its real sad,why dont americans have courage enough to accept that yeah there are third world conditions which exist even today,a poor man's maneouvrebility is defined by the context in which he lives,social network he maintains and given the reach of socially deprived in america the condition is real apalling in a country which boasts of world's most billionaires,look at your social security, affirmative action and health benefits,i can cite hundred instances of people who at time when they needed health benefits didnt receive at all,in certain cases people werent able to access health cos of rigid professionalism of medical fraternity which according to them were simply inaccessible,a case study done in mid nineties on income disparity levels between people of upper manhattan and harlem was eye popping with people in certain class of upper manhattan enjoying a salary of $200,000 per annum and certain class of poor enjoying a meagre $5000 per annum in the later,how far the story has changed under present govt's regime.........i read somewhere this year that america has topped even brazil in a survey of income disparity,if that's not enough to apprise of american poor i would like you people to make aware of the INFAMOUS TUSKEGEE EXPERIMENT DONE SELECTIVELY ON SEXUALLY ACTIVE BLACK POPULATION BEFORE SYPHILIS CURE WAS FOUND IN 1920S WHICH NOW FINDS MENTION IN MOST OF THE MEDICAL ETHICS BOOKS,WHAT WAS REALLY AMAZING BOUT THIS WHOLE PHENOMENA WAS THE SILENCE ON THE PART OF GOVT EVEN AFTER 40 YRS OF CURE AS THE PEOPLE WERENT TREATED EVEN AFTER CURE WAS FOUND,WHAT HAPPENED TO THESE POOR BLACK FOLKS AND THEIR FAMILIES STILL RECUPERATING FROM THE EFFECTS OF THAT INFAMOUS TRIAL,THERE ARE SIMILAR OTHER CASES IN THE PAST WHEN GOVT TRIED VARIOUS POPULATIONS SELECTIVELY,THEN HOW ABOUT THE VILOLENCE THAT AFFLICTS MOST OF AMERCIAN CITIES......CONTEXT CHANGES EVERYTHING.

how right u are, levinasbythestore

Nothing like 3rd world, but i must say, by Dutch / Northern European standards, close to 40 million people living in poverty IS a large number by all means.

Nothing like that over here.

there are third world conditions in america that do exist,people living in poverty in america has increased by point 3 percent as it now stands at 12.8% up from earlier at 12.5%. read my earlier post

Most of the Miami area.
Hialeah, Little havana, liberty city, Overtown, Sweetwater, all of NW and so many places in Fort Lauderdale.

Durham, NC Biloxi, Gary, Newark, New Orleans. and so many other places, but most of them are in the South

Please. Most people in the so-called "third world" can only dream of living in palces like those. We sometimes lose track of how good we have it here - even those living in conditions that we find horrible are living better lives than anyone in sub-saharan africa. We need to put things in perspective.

Nothing like 3rd world, but i must say, by Dutch / Northern European standards, close to 40 million people living in poverty IS a large number by all means.

Nothing like that over here.

yes but by dutch/northern european standards that would be a large country, the netherlands only has 17 million (approx.) total people and germany has a little over 80 million, give them a population of 300 million plus and it doesnt seem like such a big number. Though it is still big.

South Central LA has middle class and upper class region.

Alot of low income families are very closer to beaches in LA like Compton, Inglewood and South Central LA. Inglewood has middle class and few upper class region as well. I thinks that Compton has middle class region too.

I have said, Miami is highest poverty on nation but Talladega in Alabama looks dump and poverty to me, worse than Miami. If it's not in Miami then Detroit for good.

Alabama

yes but by dutch/northern european standards that would be a large country, the netherlands only has 17 million (approx.) total people and germany has a little over 80 million, give them a population of 300 million plus and it doesnt seem like such a big number. Though it is still big.


He was meaning in percentage, the poverty rate in the US is much higher then in Dutchland

The poor in the United States have it much worse then here in Europe, there's no point even questioning that. The standards of poverty you see in the United States is not evident in the rich western European nations, I fail to see why Poland is mentioned seeing as Poland is far poorer country then the United States.

gary looks third world so does compton

Years ago, I read somewhere that for several years Peace Corps training was held in particularly poor, predominately Latino neighborhoods of San Antonio, TX. So, I formed the impression that these neighborhoods approached Third World conditions as much as anywhere in the U.S. But, maybe the training was held there just for training in communicating with Spanish speaking people. I don't know.

The poor in the United States have it much worse then here in Europe, there's no point even questioning that. The standards of poverty you see in the United States is not evident in the rich western European nations.

I'm not challenging you, but I'm curious to know what you back up your opinion with?

For the rest of Europe it's not the case but for france there is something called minimum wage for those who work (SMIC) and the unemployed get a little bit of state money (RMI), the low incomes in the States are much lower then the SMIC, and there is no such thing as the RMI for those who don't

How about Harlem and Bronx?

In the US we have unemployment checks for the unemployed and we have minimum wage.

For the rest of Europe it's not the case but for france there is something called minimum wage for those who work (SMIC) and the unemployed get a little bit of state money (RMI), the low incomes in the States are much lower then the SMIC, and there is no such thing as the RMI for those who don't
The UK has a minimum wage too. It's currently at £4.85 (around $9.20) an hour. That means someone working a 40 hour week would make £10,088 ($19,170) on minimum wage. We also have Working Tax Credit for people on low pay to give them extra money, Unemployment Benefit and Income Support for those with no job, Child Tax Credit and Child Benefit for those with children, Housing Benefit for people on low pay... How can you say it's not the case for the rest of Europe?

The UK has a minimum wage too. It's currently at £4.85 (around $9.20) an hour. That means someone working a 40 hour week would make £10,088 ($19,170) on minimum wage. We also have Working Tax Credit for people on low pay to give them extra money, Unemployment Benefit and Income Support for those with no job, Child Tax Credit and Child Benefit for those with children, Housing Benefit for people on low pay... How can you say it's not the case for the rest of Europe?

Ky fault, I actually meant "it's maybe not the case..."

Sorry for this

I'm not challenging you, but I'm curious to know what you back up your opinion with?

With the fact that you don't see any slums in the rich western European countries that are remotly comparable to those in the United States. European countries are welfare-states and the United States isn't. If you're poor in Europe, you have many benefits that the United States lacks. It isn't just a mere welfare check but allowances and social security in daily living such as transport, health, work and education. If you don't know already, privitisation leads to costly requirments and harder access to necessities. Social benefits are very limited for the poor and unemployed in the United States. The cost of living may be lower then in some European countries and tax might be lower but a responsible person knows that it doesn't make up for social security at the end of the day. A good comparison is a poor person in the north-east of the USA where living standards are supposidly high and a poor person in Scandinavia. A poor young person in Sweden (if you call it poor that is) at birth is guaranteed to go to the best school accesible to him/her if they please, the opportunity to go to the same hospital as the Prime Minister goes to if they live close enough, and access to those luxuries that are common among every young Swede. Those are benefits every low payed working class Swede has access to, such as a part time cleaner. Whereas that the same poor child in New Jersey and you'll have his or her parents working over time and limited time for holidays and social time, the person will attend a very average school and not that which suits the student seeing, scholarships will have to be recieved which is not the norm (they hardly exist in Sweden seeing as most are high standard state-schools), he or she will be in big trouble should a costly operation be needed. At school that person will see unfairness seeing as others have so much that he doesn't. The thing with egalitarianism is that a child that didn't choose to be born to a cleaner will not be that short of a person that was luckily born to a doctor. Now that person's parents most definatly have it better aswell. A safe job due to real trade unionism, very decent housing, they don't have to work as much, and yes a reduction in tax, a place where they can take their children for free while they're working and not worrying about being insured should something happen to them. Now obviously everywhere in western Europe isn't as good as Scandinavia, but everywhere in the US isn't as good as the north-east either. Thats not to say that all Americans have it bad, but the poorer ones most certainly have it very bad.

i agree,Ubo, the reason why USA wont adopt those welfare laws is that many ppl will be very mad if the USA taxes them out

With the fact that you don't see any slums in the rich western European countries that are remotly comparable to those in the United States. European countries are welfare-states and the United States isn't. If you're poor in Europe, you have many benefits that the United States lacks. It isn't just a mere welfare check but allowances and social security in daily living such as transport, health, work and education. If you don't know already, privitisation leads to costly requirments and harder access to necessities. Social benefits are very limited for the poor and unemployed in the United States. The cost of living may be lower then in some European countries and tax might be lower but a responsible person knows that it doesn't make up for social security at the end of the day. A good comparison is a poor person in the north-east of the USA where living standards are supposidly high and a poor person in Scandinavia. A poor young person in Sweden (if you call it poor that is) at birth is guaranteed to go to the best school accesible to him/her if they please, the opportunity to go to the same hospital as the Prime Minister goes to if they live close enough, and access to those luxuries that are common among every young Swede. Those are benefits every low payed working class Swede has access to, such as a part time cleaner. Whereas that the same poor child in New Jersey and you'll have his or her parents working over time and limited time for holidays and social time, the person will attend a very average school and not that which suits the student seeing, scholarships will have to be recieved which is not the norm (they hardly exist in Sweden seeing as most are high standard state-schools), he or she will be in big trouble should a costly operation be needed. At school that person will see unfairness seeing as others have so much that he doesn't. The thing with egalitarianism is that a child that didn't choose to be born to a cleaner will not be that short of a person that was luckily born to a doctor. Now that person's parents most definatly have it better aswell. A safe job due to real trade unionism, very decent housing, they don't have to work as much, and yes a reduction in tax, a place where they can take their children for free while they're working and not worrying about being insured should something happen to them. Now obviously everywhere in western Europe isn't as good as Scandinavia, but everywhere in the US isn't as good as the north-east either. Thats not to say that all Americans have it bad, but the poorer ones most certainly have it very bad.

You bring up many valid points, but I think you might underestimate the ammount of aid given to the poor. Poor people are eligible for significant financial aid to pay for college, and there are many scholarships available to poorer students. But nothing comes free here. If you're poor, you still have to work hard to get scholarships, certain types of aid, etc. Also, it's sometimes hard to udnerstand our mentality here in America. Call me naive, but I honestly believe that if one works hard enough, he can overcome poverty. I know plenty of people who's parents came to America pennyless, and now live very prospoerous lives. My ancestors came here with nothing, and through hard work, we became prosperous. And that was 100 years ago, when welfare was barely existent. And, by the way, I live in New Jersey, and poverty is a big problem around here (Was that just a guess or are you farmiliar with the state?).

As a side note, there was a large piece in the New York Times today about Social Security. It dealt with alot of the issues brought up here.

In the "3rd world" cities I have visited (Bangkok, Manila, Jakarta, Mexico City), the general "look and feel" of the area is generally better or comparible with Gary, Indiana.

Are you kidding me? I was in Mexico city as a kid and to some of its' poorest parts. Unless Gary Indiana has MILES and MILES of unpaved dirt roads with hundreds of thousands of SHACKS about to fall over and dirty, nasty dogs shitting in the street...then they are comparable.

Ive seen North Paris too....at least by train, and it was pretty rundown looking but NOTHING like Mexico city.

Some "third world" countries I have been to seem very clean, modern and wealthy, like Costa Rica. I was pleased to find that many of the people of this country live happily in a middle class.

Areas Ive been to in the USA would be bordertowns in Texas and rural Appalachia, like many have said here before.

what's so deceiving about these pictures...i dont understand but one thing is sure im apalled by what i have seen in those pictures,even though some of the picutres being dated....they aint dated that enough to not form a judgement bout american poor.common being the richest and most developed nation in the world how come that happened i mean look at the condition, its real sad,why dont americans have courage enough to accept that yeah there are third world conditions which exist even today,a poor man's maneouvrebility is defined by the context in which he lives,social network he maintains and given the reach of socially deprived in america the condition is real apalling in a country which boasts of world's most billionaires,look at your social security, affirmative action and health benefits,i can cite hundred instances of people who at time when they needed health benefits didnt receive at all,in certain cases people werent able to access health cos of rigid professionalism of medical fraternity which according to them were simply inaccessible,a case study done in mid nineties on income disparity levels between people of upper manhattan and harlem was eye popping with people in certain class of upper manhattan enjoying a salary of $200,000 per annum and certain class of poor enjoying a meagre $5000 per annum in the later,how far the story has changed under present govt's regime.........i read somewhere this year that america has topped even brazil in a survey of income disparity,if that's not enough to apprise of american poor i would like you people to make aware of the INFAMOUS TUSKEGEE EXPERIMENT DONE SELECTIVELY ON SEXUALLY ACTIVE BLACK POPULATION BEFORE SYPHILIS CURE WAS FOUND IN 1920S WHICH NOW FINDS MENTION IN MOST OF THE MEDICAL ETHICS BOOKS,WHAT WAS REALLY AMAZING BOUT THIS WHOLE PHENOMENA WAS THE SILENCE ON THE PART OF GOVT EVEN AFTER 40 YRS OF CURE AS THE PEOPLE WERENT TREATED EVEN AFTER CURE WAS FOUND,WHAT HAPPENED TO THESE POOR BLACK FOLKS AND THEIR FAMILIES STILL RECUPERATING FROM THE EFFECTS OF THAT INFAMOUS TRIAL,THERE ARE SIMILAR OTHER CASES IN THE PAST WHEN GOVT TRIED VARIOUS POPULATIONS SELECTIVELY,THEN HOW ABOUT THE VILOLENCE THAT AFFLICTS MOST OF AMERCIAN CITIES......CONTEXT CHANGES EVERYTHING.
i need people to reply for this post which lot of people seemed to have overlooked

miami is not the poorest, city in the Us anymore, that title was taken away a few years ago and since then Miami has been climbing in the "wealth rankings". Crime is dropping and the economy is booming, the unemployment figures released this week are at 4.2%, lower than the Us average, the price of homes has risen over 14% per year in the last 5 years. the household income has increased at double digit rates as well. Skyscrapers are going up everywhere, illegal immigrations is down to a trickle. Miami is poised to be the secretariat of the FTAA (if the treaty is apporved). In only four years, miami´s bond rate in has increased for a CC- to a AA+A+. Just think about school, thats good. So i think Miami is far from a third world country. Of course there are bad parts, jsut like chicago, ny,la and all large cities. but that doesnt make it third world. And as for the US If Alabama and mississippi are the poorest sates. But third world also means that there is a lack of hope and they are perpetually stuck in tha position. If those ppl from mississippi and alabama moved elsewhere they could be quite affluent.

Finally about social programs. the EU growth rate is about 1.6% the US is about 3.5%
EU unemployment is at about 9% US is at under 5%
Of the larger countries in the EU, the ones that spend less on social programs are spain and england, and they are the ones that are growing the fastest.

but i digress. back to Miami (srry but i have to defend my hometown)

here is a ranking of the richest cities in the world. Notice Miami is number 20 out of the largest and richest cities in the world. not very thrd world now is it.
http://www.citymayors.com/economics/richest_cities.html

i need people to reply for this post which lot of people seemed to have overlooked

Maybe if it made some sort of sense people might reply to it...

miami is not the poorest, city in the Us anymore, that title was taken away a few years ago and since then Miami has been climbing in the "wealth rankings". Crime is dropping and the economy is booming, the unemployment figures released this week are at 4.2%, lower than the Us average, the price of homes has risen over 14% per year in the last 5 years. the household income has increased at double digit rates as well. Skyscrapers are going up everywhere, illegal immigrations is down to a trickle. Miami is poised to be the secretariat of the FTAA (if the treaty is apporved). In only four years, miami´s bond rate in has increased for a CC- to a AA+A+. Just think about school, thats good. So i think Miami is far from a third world country. Of course there are bad parts, jsut like chicago, ny,la and all large cities. but that doesnt make it third world. And as for the US If Alabama and mississippi are the poorest sates. But third world also means that there is a lack of hope and they are perpetually stuck in tha position. If those ppl from mississippi and alabama moved elsewhere they could be quite affluent.

Finally about social programs. the EU growth rate is about 1.6% the US is about 3.5%
EU unemployment is at about 9% US is at under 5%
Of the larger countries in the EU, the ones that spend less on social programs are spain and england, and they are the ones that are growing the fastest.

but i digress. back to Miami (srry but i have to defend my hometown)

here is a ranking of the richest cities in the world. Notice Miami is number 20 out of the largest and richest cities in the world. not very thrd world now is it.
http://www.citymayors.com/economics/richest_cities.html


Once again, growth and unemployment rate should be seen in their context, an unemployed in a welfare state will have a much better life then in a free-market one, and a the poorest of workers in a welfare state, with minimum wages and work-time, have things much easier then in a free-market one, everybody heard about the "working poors" in those countries.
So unemployment should not be the only thing to look at.


No concerning growth, growth just means more "things" where produced or done then in the previous year, it can mean weapon building, or cigarettes, which have also negative aspects, and a country can experience economic growth without seing it's poverty decrease (an we are heading straight into an ecological catastrophy if we don't start thinking otherwise and if we don't stop with this growth madness).

Maybe if it made some sort of sense people might reply to it...
why dont u better clarify where it didnt make sense or you have rather made up your mind to not make sense!

miami is not the poorest, city in the Us anymore, that title was taken away a few years ago and since then Miami has been climbing in the "wealth rankings". Crime is dropping and the economy is booming, the unemployment figures released this week are at 4.2%, lower than the Us average, the price of homes has risen over 14% per year in the last 5 years. the household income has increased at double digit rates as well. Skyscrapers are going up everywhere, illegal immigrations is down to a trickle. Miami is poised to be the secretariat of the FTAA (if the treaty is apporved). In only four years, miami´s bond rate in has increased for a CC- to a AA+A+. Just think about school, thats good. So i think Miami is far from a third world country. Of course there are bad parts, jsut like chicago, ny,la and all large cities. but that doesnt make it third world. And as for the US If Alabama and mississippi are the poorest sates. But third world also means that there is a lack of hope and they are perpetually stuck in tha position. If those ppl from mississippi and alabama moved elsewhere they could be quite affluent.

Finally about social programs. the EU growth rate is about 1.6% the US is about 3.5%
EU unemployment is at about 9% US is at under 5%
Of the larger countries in the EU, the ones that spend less on social programs are spain and england, and they are the ones that are growing the fastest.

but i digress. back to Miami (srry but i have to defend my hometown)

here is a ranking of the richest cities in the world. Notice Miami is number 20 out of the largest and richest cities in the world. not very thrd world now is it.
http://www.citymayors.com/economics/richest_cities.html

You just prove with wrong inform but Miami is most poorest on nation in it's city proper, not in Miami-Dade County.

Honestly, I'm shocked that inform had gave on Miami about most poorest ciy on nation (USA).

No, the CITY OF MIAMI

You just prove with wrong inform but Miami is most poorest on nation in it's city proper, not in Miami-Dade County.

Honestly, I'm shocked that inform had gave on Miami about most poorest ciy on nation (USA).


No, the CITY OF MIAMI is no longer the poorest city in the nation. i didnt mean the metro area, i meant the city, it is no longer the poorest.

READ THIS: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6080044/

VIRTUAL, i didnt just look at one thing, i looked at a few, unemployment rate is a huge factor in measuring the economic strength of the city. Also, the wage rate of grotwth in wages, and in household value. If i had looked at one thing then u would be right, howeer i noted several factors that you failed to examine,they show the growth in importance and strength of the economy in miami.The high-tech industry here is booming, turism levels are at an all time high, most of the job growth is in the service sector.Wut you say is true in theory but it doesnt apply to the changes taking place in miami.

No, the CITY OF MIAMI is no longer the poorest city in the nation. i didnt mean the metro area, i meant the city, it is no longer the poorest.

READ THIS: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6080044/

VIRTUAL, i didnt just look at one thing, i looked at a few, unemployment rate is a huge factor in measuring the economic strength of the city. Also, the wage rate of grotwth in wages, and in household value. If i had looked at one thing then u would be right, howeer i noted several factors that you failed to examine,they show the growth in importance and strength of the economy in miami.The high-tech industry here is booming, turism levels are at an all time high, most of the job growth is in the service sector.Wut you say is true in theory but it doesnt apply to the changes taking place in miami.

Wow. Cleveland is most poorest on nation. :runaway:

Thanks for information clearly. :okay:

no prob

First-World, Second-World and Third-World have a lot more to do with the state of a country, its economy, etc. than the way it looks.

Besides many of the small towns in the Appalachians; and, maybe a few border towns down south. The US doesn't really have what you'd call "Third-World". A ghetto isn't third-world. All you have to do is look in a National Geographic or do some Google searching to see the intensity of poverty and misfortune of actual Third-World countries, some of it is, frankly, incomparible.

Thank you Detroit Mahn^^^
Seems like everyone takes for granted what they have...hell, even if you are living in the projects in Gary or a trailer park in Hooterville West Virginia...you still have it much better than Most of the 3rd world.

here is a ranking of the richest cities in the world. Notice Miami is number 20 out of the largest and richest cities in the world. not very thrd world now is it.
http://www.citymayors.com/economics/richest_cities.html

That's a strange and selective list. Apparently, my hometown does not even make the list, and has lower take home wages than Lagos and Bratislava, which I find very hard to believe. These lists are always incomplete and innaccurate.

Thank you Detroit Mahn^^^
Seems like everyone takes for granted what they have...hell, even if you are living in the projects in Gary or a trailer park in Hooterville West Virginia...you still have it much better than Most of the 3rd world.

Thats what I've been trying to say all along....

^ Thank you god!! Finally some smart people in the room, that's why I try to say, we American don't have third world area, we have clean running water, power, foods and onE of the best money system. We have roads, bus, airport, and car for sale. We have policemen, firemen and school, we have freedom and law. People just take things for granted... and people just don't understand some country in Africa look like: No clean water, no foods, no freedom, no jobs, no protection from police or fireman, no school... DO WE HAVE ANY AREA IN US LOOK LIKE THAT???

Of course, these images don´t prove anything. I know we can find pics like this from any country in the world

http://www.american-pictures.com/gallery/usa/new397-a.jpg
^ Georgia, 1989.

http://www.theeveryman.com/static2003/images/2003/em03p/014_11A.jpg
^ California


No, there are few countries where you can't find pictures like this from.

I've never seen anything like that anywhere in the UK.

The Mississippi delta was the poorest place I saw in the US, houses little better than shacks, people hanging around seemingly with nothing to do dressed in tatty clothes, very unhealthy looking, no services, no public transport etc.

Poverty Tightens Grip On Mississippi Delta
Number of Young Rural Poor Rises, Study Says

By Robert E. Pierre
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, July 17, 2004; Page A03

COAHOMA, Miss. -- The abandoned shells of buildings along the main drag here serve as a glum backdrop for the youngsters who sit in front of them for hours, idly chatting and staring into the occasional passing car. A liquor store and convenience store are the only places to shop. The little work available is seasonal or at casinos 25 miles away.

Poverty, like an annoying out-of-town cousin, has settled into this Mississippi Delta town for an extended stay. Fifty-five percent of households in this community of 350 take in less than $15,000 a year, well below the federal poverty line of $18,850 for a family of four. The last of the town's shacks, which lacked toilets and insulation, were retired only in the last decade, after Habitat for Humanity made destroying them a priority.

Leroy Bush has lived here all his life, picking cotton and working odd jobs to make ends meet. A decade ago, he became a homeowner in exchange for 500 hours' worth of "sweat equity" and a promise to pay $100 a month on an interest-free mortgage that covers the cost of the land, insurance and materials. The labor was free.

"Everybody here is just trying to make it," said Bush, 55, who works with his wife, Clarethea, at a nearby casino. "We do the best we can."

The human faces of poverty for many Americans are the inner-city homeless who sleep on grates, beg on corners and line up, mornings and afternoons, at local parks for a cup of soup and a sandwich. But of the 50 counties with the highest child-poverty rates, 48 are in rural America. Compared with urban areas, unemployment is typically higher, education poorer and services severely limited because people are so spread out.

A report, "Child Poverty in Rural America," prepared this year by Loyola University of Chicago and the Annie E. Casey Foundation, found that the gap between child poverty in rural and urban areas has widened in recent years. One in five children in rural America lives below the poverty line. By contrast, the child-poverty rate in metropolitan areas is 16 percent. Just a few years ago, the rates were nearly the same.

"In rural areas, the poverty is white, Hispanic, black and American Indian," said Kenneth M. Johnson, a professor at Loyola, who co-authored the report. "Unlike urban poverty, the rural poor are not always right where you're going to see them."

No corner of the nation is untouched: Texas border towns, farming communities in Montana, fishing and logging enclaves in Maine and the mountains of Appalachia -- and in places such as Coahoma, in the heart of what is known as the southern Black Belt, a crescent of counties from Virginia to Texas in which blacks far outnumber whites.

"Rural poverty is an area that too many people don't recognize as a problem," said Robert Forney, president and chief executive officer of America's Second Harvest, the nation's largest hunger-relief organization. "A lot of people believe it's got to be cheap to live there and food has got to be more available. But cheap is relative to income. Your ability to move yourself around is limited. There is no public transportation.

"The question becomes, 'How do you get help?' ''

Second Harvest started putting food directly into children's hands, with weekend "book bag" programs in which food is sent home with a child every weekend. The Mississippi Food Network, a food bank for the state, sends trucks out from its headquarters in Jackson, Miss., to drop off food closer to the people who need it.

Other organizations seek both to provide for emergency food needs and to prepare residents for a future in which they can become self-sufficient.

One of them is the Louisiana Center Against Poverty, in Lake Providence, La., which offers self-esteem programs for children, job training for their parents and computer skills classes for all ages.

But new graduates face grim job prospects, said Carolyn Hunt, the agency's executive director. Lake Providence is historically one of the poorest places in the nation, ranked as the poorest community in the 1990 Census.

Just as in Coahoma, before machines made manual harvesting nearly extinct in Lake Providence, there was full employment for everyone, including small children, who often skipped school to pick cotton and vegetables. The wages, while meager, ensured that families could support themselves year-round. But with few field jobs and no factories, when the poverty center opens its doors to dole out brown-paper sacks filled with potatoes, cheese, peppers and powdered milk, young and old line up for their share.

"A lot of people run out of groceries and don't have money to buy more," said Ethel Emerson, 70, who collected a free bag of food on a recent morning along with hundreds of neighbors. "This gives them a way to keep going."

Hunt, a Lake Providence native, worked in larger cities, including Miami and Baton Rouge, La. She was often judgmental when she came home to visit. "I used to say, 'What's wrong with these people -- why can't they do better?' " Hunt said.

Now, after returning home to attend graduate school, she said she realizes there just are not enough jobs. So she spends a good portion of her time lobbying legislators in Baton Rouge for tax incentives to lure businesses.

"Just one factory or plant could make a huge difference," she said.

Back in Mississippi, Jane Boykin, president of the Jackson-based Forum on Children and Families, lobbies on poverty and child welfare before the state legislature. No matter how successful she is, the work is never done. Mississippi is at or near the top in all the wrong categories: births to single teens, low-birth-weight babies, illiteracy.

"Poverty is not just an economic indicator here," Boykin said. "It's a part of our economy. There are a large group of people for whom poverty provides employment" as they dole out food at shelters and work for organizations that help the poor.

Coahoma is one of those vexing places where poverty is entrenched. In the center of cotton country, the town lies 60 miles south of Memphis in the flat alluvial flood plain of the Mississippi Delta. Trains filled with cotton and passengers once made this an active trading center, but mechanization changed things drastically by the 1940s, effectively ending sharecropping and leaving a community bereft of jobs.

So as many southerners had before them, Coahoma residents fled the Delta for jobs in the North. The town continued to decline, reaching a low point in 1977 when its school closed for good. It would be nearly another decade before things began to look up.

Coahoma Mayor W.J. Jones can talk at length about what the town needs: jobs, money, a tax base. But as he travels the community, visiting with residents, he remains optimistic. There had not been a new house in town in two decades before Habitat for Humanity showed up. Now, some young people are returning, slowly investing in homes and property.

"The problems are so great sometimes that you feel you're not making a dent," said Jones, a former principal, who has presided over this town since 1982. "But I'm optimistic. We want to improve the quality of life for those who come after us. I know it might be some years."

There is some pretty ghetto looking neiborhoods around central phoenix
On the news they said that there are 12,000 homeless people

those people in Mississippi could just move

I stayed in a Native American town called Kayenta in (I think) Arizona, that seemed pretty Third World to me.

O god these crazy europeans. alright lets see where to begin...

My parents are spanish, but i was bron and raised in miami and proud to be and american. Because of my background (US/spain) and the fact tha i travel all over europe every single summer i think i hav some insight to a few things about both "worlds".

First of all, i wonder why there hasnt been a thread (third world areas in western europe), which proves the underlying bias and stereotype in europe that there is some crazy shit happening in the US, there are too many poor people, to much crime, to much blablblablablablabla...

All of this which could be explained simply:

First, the assumption that wealth is extremely polarized in the USA. UUUUMMMMM duuuuhhhh. u can only get soo poor, your level of income can only decrease to zero, because when u work u dont pay to do it. And since the GDP per captia in the us is over 35 thousand, wealth is more polarized here than in a european country whose gdp per capita is 27 thousand. 0-35,000 is a bigger stretch than 0-27,000.

Secondly, there is a lot of crime in the US. Yes, that is true, but when u see the statistics that the majority (per capita) of crimes committed in the US are by hispanics and blacks. And then u realize that western europe is only starting o feel the effects of substantial immigration, u start to wonder about the crime rate in a future more mixed europe. Now, i don´t wanna hear mike 19 is a racist and blablablabla, western europe is white, france, italy and spain are latin and germany benelux and englash are anglos, ladies and gentlemen, latin and anglosaxons are white. The issue is not that one race is more predisposed than another to commit crime. the issue is that when there is such a continued mix of cultures, races, beliefs, and traditions, as in the US, the truth is there will a higher rate of crime until they mix is completley assimilated. case in point: irish and italian immigrants, when they first arrived, had the highest crime rates, of any race/ethnicity in the US. But now, they are not even seen as a different ethnicity, they are white. In europe we are beggining to see vast amounts of immigration from north africa, and there are already problems noth heard of in europe, of higher crimes in schools, gangs, etc etc. This is everybodies fault, in the US as in Europe, it is the majorities fault for being scared and pushing minorities away, and it i the minorities´ fault for resorting to a life of crime, instead of trying to push trhough ( this is in reference to those segments of the minority population who have a higher crime rate than the overall countries´, the majority of minorities are hard working ppl). In the US, the vast amount of whites, due to the history of the US, have become tolerant and respectful of minorities and they are seen every bit as american as whites are. In europe the "struggle" is just beggininng, im actually in spain right now, and my own family uses so many racial slurs and jokes about morrocans that it amazes me when they start talking about how americans treat mexican illegals, and when i say well wut about morrocans, all they say is, well they´re different, they cant be trusted and theyre evil and blablablabla. the same thing is happening all over europe. nazism in germany is on the rise, antisemitism in france is on the rise.

So to end this diatribe, my point, which was probably lost in all my rambling and whcih i noe try to recover, is that the higher crimerate in the US, is a symptom if u will, of the mixing and assimilation of races. In Europe the process has only begun, and while europeans might see themsleves as more liberal and open minded than americans (and it is probably tru, generally) immigration in europe on a large scale is just now starting, and those bumps and grinds that increase the crime rate will happen soon.

PS: france recently barred muslim grls from wearing headscarfs in school, that would never, i repeat, never ever ever ever happen here in the US. For all the stereotypes of the ignorant americans, it doesnt seem europe is fairing any better.

Alabama!? A third world country!? HAHAHAHAHA! To the many people on this thread that said this- you have obviously never been to alabama. Our state's poverty is very overrated. There are many more affluent parts of the state than impoverished parts. The only major region of poverty in the state is the southwestern portion, north of Mobile and south of Tuscaloosa. That area is known for its higher-than-average unemployment and a economy that relies on agriculture. But even that area does not compare to a "third world" country. The other regions of the state have improved considerably over the past few years. East Alabama, an area that was hit hard by the steel closings of the 70s, has come back due to the new automotive plants that have located in the area. South Alabama has made great strides due to the booming tourism industry. North Alabama has done well with the "fight" against poverty. Once a textile center, the area has become a technology center, with some of the highest average incomes in the SE, only second behind Atlanta. Our incomes are so high, we lost a bid for 700 NASA jobs to Mississippi because of that. But enough local promotion.

That MS stuff was pretty scary. The people that live there probably wont move because many Southerners like to stay close to their hometown, no matter how bad the conditions are.

The fact that a particular area (like the Delta or inner Appalachia) has high unemployment and low incomes does not make it "third world". The article cited still notes that the average income in the worst part of the Delta is $15k per year; that's low, but not starvation-level low. It means these people live in small houses, with few amenities and very little in the way of comfort.

BUT... they still go to public schools, they still have power and running water (if they don't, it's not because they're too poor), they still have access to basic institutions like police stations and libraries. Perhaps most importantly, they are literally down the road from areas in which they could improve their lifestyle, if they so desired. It's not that hard to get a job at Denny's and a $300 apartment, even if your previous experience is in cotton-picking. In this particular case, I don't buy the argument that they are victims of a culture; the South is a rapidly-booming region and there are jobs to be had in every state. These people could, with some effort, work their way to a higher standard of living. Even if their level of living is crap, it's not right to say that they're as badly-off as Sudanese refugees.

Anyway, in general I don't think of "third world" as simply meaning "poor", and I don't think of "area" as indicating a few hundred square miles or a neighborhood in a huge city. Assuming that "area" means a very large parcel of land with a substantial population, it would be wrong to say that the US has any "areas" which qualify as third-world. The only thing that might qualify would be Native American reservations.

The fact that a particular area (like the Delta or inner Appalachia) has high unemployment and low incomes does not make it "third world". The article cited still notes that the average income in the worst part of the Delta is $15k per year; that's low, but not starvation-level low. It means these people live in small houses, with few amenities and very little in the way of comfort.

BUT... they still go to public schools, they still have power and running water (if they don't, it's not because they're too poor), they still have access to basic institutions like police stations and libraries. Perhaps most importantly, they are literally down the road from areas in which they could improve their lifestyle, if they so desired. It's not that hard to get a job at Denny's and a $300 apartment, even if your previous experience is in cotton-picking. In this particular case, I don't buy the argument that they are victims of a culture; the South is a rapidly-booming region and there are jobs to be had in every state. These people could, with some effort, work their way to a higher standard of living. Even if their level of living is crap, it's not right to say that they're as badly-off as Sudanese refugees.

Anyway, in general I don't think of "third world" as simply meaning "poor", and I don't think of "area" as indicating a few hundred square miles or a neighborhood in a huge city. Assuming that "area" means a very large parcel of land with a substantial population, it would be wrong to say that the US has any "areas" which qualify as third-world. The only thing that might qualify would be Native American reservations.


I thinks that is not many black people live in Appalachia area execpt for few states but there is pretty many black people in it's some part of Delta (River name?)

Just to clarify...it is The CITY of Miami that was deemed the poorest (large) US city a few years ago....but the city is very small (over 300,000) and should not be a symbol for the huge metro area (over 5 million) which is quite well off, overall!

Just to clarify...it is The CITY of Miami that was deemed the poorest (large) US city a few years ago....but the city is very small (over 300,000) and should not be a symbol for the huge metro area (over 5 million) which is quite well off, overall!


let me clarify more. The city of miami has lost that "title" thank god. And we are now rising, in wealth. the previous info was based on the fact the the city of miami is very small and almost all of the rich folk have gone to live in the suburbs. Because of the new condo boom. many middle and upper class people are moving back to the city proper. however, the miami metro area is one of the richest in the nation.

however, the miami metro area is one of the richest in the nation.

Are you kidding? :weird:

LA and NYC has more richest people than Miami, just my thought.

^he said "one of the richest" not "The Richest"

^he said "one of the richest" not "The Richest"

I see

Are you kidding? :weird:

LA and NYC has more richest people than Miami, just my thought.
Los Angeles County has the most richest people in the US!!!

I thinks that is not many black people live in Appalachia area execpt for few states but there is pretty many black people in it's some part of Delta (River name?)

That's correct, there aren't very many places in Appalachia that have a large black population. The Mississippi Delta is a majority-black area.

That's correct, there aren't very many places in Appalachia that have a large black population. The Mississippi Delta is a majority-black area.

I recall that in Appalachia has alot of rednecks in some it's part but pretty more preppy to me. I'm sure that is there punk/rock people in Appalachia but it's has great mall in Knoxville. I knows, people from Appalachia that goes to mall for shopping punk/rock fashion at Hot Topic. Appalachia has alot of middle class region and some upper region class so there is nothing to be Third World.

HUH, NOW a bit of third worldism would educate Americans on life outside their shores...

^ What's that supposed to mean?

You guys are a fucking joke. Measuring cities on the amount of wealthy citizens it has. Could we be more superficial.

some towns in The Central Valley of California look Third Worldish

I agree with you...i've visited Alabama twice and didn't notice any widespread poverty...most of the area looked nice and affluent.
Alabama!? A third world country!? HAHAHAHAHA! To the many people on this thread that said this- you have obviously never been to alabama. Our state's poverty is very overrated. There are many more affluent parts of the state than impoverished parts. The only major region of poverty in the state is the southwestern portion, north of Mobile and south of Tuscaloosa. That area is known for its higher-than-average unemployment and a economy that relies on agriculture. But even that area does not compare to a "third world" country. The other regions of the state have improved considerably over the past few years. East Alabama, an area that was hit hard by the steel closings of the 70s, has come back due to the new automotive plants that have located in the area. South Alabama has made great strides due to the booming tourism industry. North Alabama has done well with the "fight" against poverty. Once a textile center, the area has become a technology center, with some of the highest average incomes in the SE, only second behind Atlanta. Our incomes are so high, we lost a bid for 700 NASA jobs to Mississippi because of that. But enough local promotion.

That MS stuff was pretty scary. The people that live there probably wont move because many Southerners like to stay close to their hometown, no matter how bad the conditions are.

If the European Union were a state in the USA it would belong to the poorest group of states. France, Italy, Great Britain and Germany have lower GDP per capita than all but four of the states in the United States. In fact, GDP per capita is lower in the vast majority of the EU-countries (EU 15) than in most of the individual American states. This puts Europeans at a level of prosperity on par with states such as Arkansas, Mississippi and West Virginia. Only the miniscule country of Luxembourg has higher per capita GDP than the average state in the USA. The results of the new study represent a grave critique of European economic policy.

Stark differences become apparent when comparing official economic statistics. Europe lags behind the USA when comparing GDP per capita and GDP growth rates. The current economic debate among EU leaders lacks an understanding of the gravity of the situation in many European countries. Structural reforms of the European economy as well as far reaching welfare reforms are well overdue. The Lisbon process lacks true impetus, nor is it sufficient to improve the economic prospects of the EU.

EU versus USA is written by Dr Fredrik Bergström, President of the Swedish Research Institute of Trade, and Mr Robert Gidehag, until recently Chief Economist of the same institute and now President of the Swedish Taxpayer's Association.

Report (http://www.timbro.com/euvsusa/pdf/EU_vs_USA_English.pdf)

http://www.timbro.com/euvsusa/

^ Just to critique this report, note that GDP is only one determinant of wealth. GDP doesn't count accrued assets; it's sort of like current income. European countries may have lower GDP/capita than American states, but they've accrued assets and infrastructure over thousands of years. We have fewer streets of expensive cobblestone, nor do we have thousand year old castle mansions.

In addition, I believe that the U.S. does have more economic disparity than other developed countries, at least according to the Gini Index. Much of our disparity is due to the legacy of slavery; blacks, if separated from the U.S., would equal a developing country. They have less income per capita than whites and even fewer assets.

Some places in the U.S. do have rare diseases only seen in 3rd world countries. The patients are too poor or ignorant to travel to doctors, so they deal with their illness until it becomes truly horrible. Still, it's a big improvement to be poor living in a rich country than it is to be poor and living in a poor one. At least in the rich country, you can dumpster dive. Some people in parts of Africa can't even do that.

In addition, I believe that the U.S. does have more economic disparity than other developed countries, at least according to the Gini Index. Much of our disparity is due to the legacy of slavery; blacks, if separated from the U.S., would equal a developing country. They have less income per capita than whites and even fewer assets.

Are you sure about that? I've read that the black population of the US is wealthier than the entire population of Canada, with roughly the same population.

^ Counting Oprah?

^ :laugh:

Are you sure about that? I've read that the black population of the US is wealthier than the entire population of Canada, with roughly the same population.
African-Americans*
Combined GDP: $728 billion per year (2003)
Per capita GDP: $19,622.64 (2003, PPP)

Canadians
Combined GDP: $869.2 billion per year (2003, nominal)
Per capita GDP: $30,677.69 (2003, PPP)

According to the World Bank (2003), African-Americans fall somewhere between Greece and Slovenia:
GDP(PPP)/capita

24 New Zealand $21,177
25 Greece $19,973
26 Macao, China $19,455
27 Slovenia $19,300

*2004 University of Georgia Selig Center study, U.S. Census Bureau, National Black Chamber of Commerce, Target Market News, 2004 NUL "State of Black America" Report

That is not true. Its much higher than that.

When I picture poverty in the US, I think of the Appalachian Mountains, I dunno if this is accurate. I believe Puerto Rico has the lowest average income, and logically, the city with the highest poverty rate. YES, they are part of the US, they are citizens, so we can count them too.

GDP is a useless measure of comparing poverty in the first place.

Most of the Miami area.
Hialeah, Little havana, liberty city, Overtown, Sweetwater, all of NW and so many places in Fort Lauderdale.

Durham, NC Biloxi, Gary, Newark, New Orleans. and so many other places, but most of them are in the South

lol... Durham. One of the best Universities in the county located in a city (that while is admitedly improving) you DO NOT want to get caught dead walking around at night, chances are you would be dead though. lol.

Is there a single state, county, city or town that would meet the criteria of an underdeveloped country, as a seperate entity from the United States?

The fact that a thought of this sort came to your mind shows how little you know about your own coutry.

That is not true. Its much higher than that.

You've resurrected a thread that died 6 months ago just to say that???

The fact that a thought of this sort came to your mind shows how little you know about your own coutry.

You could pick out individual indicators that compare to third world places such as comparing Infant Mortality in Mississippi with Malaysia or literacy levels and life expectancy in Kerala, India compared to certain inner-city areas. But overall there is nowhere that has third-world type scores across the board.

Of course using GDP alone to "proove" how advanced and rich a country is also has huge problems though:

As merely a gross measure of market activity, “GDP only counts money transactions” and thus “leaves out many ‘goods’ that people provide for each other free.” This means that “the crucial economic functions performed in the household and volunteer sectors go entirely unreckoned.” The more things are excluded, such as “care for the elderly and for children, home maintenance and cleaning, food preparation, and voluntary service for neighborhood, church, and civic groups,” “the more our families and communities decline and a monetized service sector takes their place, the more the GDP goes up.” This can be a serious problem in “the economies of less-developed nations, where much production takes place in the household economy.” Cobb et al. explain that, in such countries, “a development strategy based on raising the GNP might undermine this household economy and therefore diminish the well-being of the nation’s people.” In many cases, the disappearance of non-monetary services and their replacement with monetary relationships “represents an increase in GDP but a decrease in the strength of the social fabric that holds communities and families together.”

Furthermore, while GDP ignores everything that happens outside the realm of monetized exchange, regardless of the importance to well-being, “it treats everything that happens in the market as a gain for humanity.” Cobb et al. liken this to “a business that kept a balance sheet by merely adding up all ‘transactions,’ without distinguishing between income and expenses, or between assets and liabilities.” They point out that few people would be impressed “if the chief of their local police department were to announce today that ‘activity’ on the city streets had increased by 15 percent” unless they knew what kind of activity increased, and yet, when it comes to measuring development, all market activity is assumed to be good. This kind of logic means, for instance, that: “If someone buys a car, GDP goes up. If the car gets into an accident and requires major repair, GDP goes up. If the driver is hospitalized, GDP goes up. If a lawsuit follows, GDP goes up again.” Rowe and Silverstein outline a number of similar situations under which GDP growth results from negative occurances in society, including spending on stress treatment and other medical costs, ATM fees, traffic, gambling, and spending into debt and paying interest.

Moreover, “GDP treats depletion of natural capital (assets) as current income - an obvious violation of good accounting principles.” This means that “if a forest is converted to lumber, or farmland is turned into parking lots, GDP treats all the money involved as current income and none of it as capital depreciation.” In addition, in the past when economists used gross national product (GNP) instead of GDP, it meant that “the earnings of a multinational firm were attributed to the country where the firm was owned - and where the profits would eventually return.” Now, “under the gross domestic product, however, the profits are attributed to the country where the factory or mine is located, even though they won’t stay there. “This accounting shift has turned many struggling nations into statistical boomtowns, while aiding the push for a global economy” and “has hidden a basic fact: the nations of the North are walking off with the South’s resources, and calling it a gain for the South.” A final problem is that “the GDP totally ignores the distribution of income, for example, so that enormous gains at the top - as were made during the 1980s - appear as new bounty for all.”

The World Bank itself recognizes many of these problems:

Although they reflect the average incomes in a country, GNP per capita and GDP per capita have numerous limitations when it comes to measuring people’s actual well-being. They do not show how equitably a country’s income is distributed. They do not account for pollution, environmental degradation, and resource depletion. They do not register unpaid work done within the family and community, or work done in the shadow (gray) economy. And they attach equal importance to “goods” (such as medicines) and “bads” (cigarettes, chemical weapons) while ignoring the value of leisure and human freedom.

As a result of the problems outlined above, much of GDP can be composed of: “fixing mistakes and social failures from the past,” “borrowing resources from the future,” and “shifting functions from the traditional household and community to the monetary economy.” Indeed, it is no wonder that “Simon Kuznets, the man who helped create the national accounting system . . . warned that ‘the welfare of a nation’ can ‘scarcely be inferred from a measurement of national income as defined above.’”

Source (http://www.wscsd.org/ejournal/article.php3?id_article=121)

When I picture poverty in the US, I think of the Appalachian Mountains, I dunno if this is accurate. I believe Puerto Rico has the lowest average income, and logically, the city with the highest poverty rate. YES, they are part of the US, they are citizens, so we can count them too.

I think of Montana, as Montana loses much of its population to its East.

http://www.american-pictures.com/gallery/usa/mediums/usa-00108.jpg
http://www.american-pictures.com/gallery/usa/mediums/usa-00078.jpg

Not exactly 'Citytalk'