May 9, 2005, 2:16AM

Indonesia's Suharto in serious condition, bleeding
Reuters News Services
http://us.news3.yimg.com/img.news.yahoo.com/util/anysize/345,http%3A%2F%2Fus.news1.yimg.com%2Fus.yimg.com%2Fp%2Frids%2F20050509%2Fi%2Fr401978933.jpg?v=1
JAKARTA -- Former Indonesian president Suharto is suffering from internal bleeding and breathing problems and needs to stay in hospital longer, a senior doctor said today.

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The 83-year-old former strongman was taken to a Jakarta hospital on Thursday because of unspecified blood problems.

"Critical no, but (he is) still unstable," said Mardjo Soebiandono, who heads a special medical team which treats Indonesian presidents.

"There is still bleeding, breathing problems, although they have been subsiding. So tight treatment and observation are needed," he told reporters, adding that the chances of a full recovery from the condition were only "50-50".

"Suharto wants to go home quickly. But the bleeding should stop first before we can conclude when he can go home," Soebiandono said at the hospital where the former dictator is staying.

He added the bleeding was coming from Suharto's digestive system and had affected his kidneys and lungs.

Suharto stepped down after 32 years in power in 1998 when social and political chaos engulfed Indonesia. He has suffered several strokes since then.

Attempts to prosecute Suharto for alleged corruption have foundered because of his ill health. The ex-general sharply raised incomes in Indonesia at the expense of political freedoms and widespread graft during his rule.


QUestion for discussion:
What do we all think about President Suharto? Do you think he's done more good or more bad for the country?

i think he has done good and well respected

he is one confusing fellow.
i am not sure he is to be blame or cherish.

he is one confusing fellow.
i am not sure he is to be blame or cherish.

blamed for something ....
cherished for other thing ...

People make mistakes .....
People make bad things .....
If people make bad things ... it doesn't mean that they are bad at all

I'm on the fence, moving toward the negative side for Suharto. I do believe that his childrens corrupted him. I wished he developed the nation evenly so Java and Bali would not be overcrowded.

Oh, if we talking about his child then I must say I really dont like them at all.

Yeah, I dont like them either. But Suharto himself has done some good to the nation, and for that reason we should at least pay some respect to him. (Of course he has his share of bad deeds too)

Some good? He has done a lot for Indonesia...The economy skyrocketed during his terms and despite is authoritarian rule, people were generally happy. His children definitely corrupted him. He was a good ruler, but ended things badly. He deserves a lot of credit for all the good he has done...but people will also not forget the many bad things he has done.

As a non-indonesian I think Suharto has done many good things , apart frm his corrupt children , goverments officials. IMO Indonesia under his reign was a SAFE place to go nowadays it s not safe as it used to be. more sectarian violence/tensions ,more separation sentiments .
Should Suharto be brought to court , yes. Should he be punished , yes and no because then every political figure during his tenure should be punish as well.

I think by international observers, Suharto's legacy would be mixed...economic growth at the expense of democracy, freedom and human rights...rampant corruption blah blah etc. but in the eyes of ordinary Indonesians, Suharto will be remembered as the leader who "made" Indonesia what it is today in terms of living standards, economy, international statutre, regional leadership role, unity etc. I think he's done a lot for the country and if he dies one day, the whole nation should truly pay its respects to this guy who we all used to call our "Father of Development".

It was a pity what happened in 1998. IF ONLY Suharto resigned in January 1998 (when he was uninamously elected as President for 7th term) - or better still before 1997 elections (and economic crisis), he'd be to Indonesians what Mahathir is now to Malaysians...resign during his peak. I guess the only bad thing about that scenario is that we wouldn't enjoy our democratic freedoms that we take for granted 2day...(but again the question of whether democracy is an end itself/an inherent good is truly debatable...i'm sure a lot of people wouldn't mind trading some freedoms for better living standards...Singapore provides a good case in point).

Suharto is by far doing good rather than bad...his children is totally fucked up BUT...Its true the Suharto regime is very corrupt BUT AGAIN...when you compare the level of corruption during the suharto era with today's corruption you will see a huge different of corruption.

Before, when you are going to start a project or business, you know where you will have to pay so therefore your business and project can be successful.....

Answer: Suharto family.

Nowadays...you are going to start a business or project...you need to pay several elements...such as provincial government, state government...the City town council...the residences, community leader, etc etc....blah! Thanks to the regulation of special autonomy.

cheers

yes..as the joke goes...the only thing worse than centralised corruption is .........decentralised corruption! ;)

he is a truly respected man

welcome to the forum wS.

Nice article.

"Anak Harto"

Budiarto Shambazy

BANYAK peristiwa yang terjadi belakangan ini, yang membuat banyak orang lagi-lagi tercenung dan terpaksa kembali merenung. Lagu top hit pekan lalu-dan mungkin akan tetap bertengger terus di urutan teratas minggu depan-adalah skandal suap dan korupsi di KPU.

Penyidikan korupsi di KPU semakin hari semakin susah dicerna dengan akal sehat. Kita dibuat bego, bingung, penasaran, dipaksa menebak-nebak, dan seolah-olah seperti membaca buku cerita silat.

Bencana seperti tidak pernah habis-habisnya. Kini giliran virus penyakit polio menebar mara bahaya bagi anak kita.

Reformasi telah berusia tujuh tahun, presiden pun sudah berganti-ganti. Belakangan ini banyak orang yang mengatakan kepada saya, "Ah, mendingan zaman Soeharto."

Kalau di zaman Soeharto, korupsi yang terjadi katanya hanya sekadar transaksi di bawah meja. Sejak zaman reformasi, sampai meja-mejanya sekalian diangkut dan dikorupsi.

Pak Harto kini terbaring di rumah sakit untuk pertama kalinya dalam beberapa tahun belakangan ini. Sekitar tujuh tahun yang lalu pada bulan yang sama, Mei 1998, Pak Harto mengundurkan diri dari jabatannya sebagai kepala negara.

Dua tokoh yang menjenguk Pak Harto adalah mantan Gubernur DKI Jakarta Ali Sadikin dan Wakil Ketua MPR AM Fatwa. Meskipun pernah menjadi korban politik Orde Baru, Bang Ali dan Fatwa telah memaafkan dosa-dosa Pak Harto.

Benar kata pepatah bahwa hidup seperti roda yang terus berputar. Posisi politik Pak Harto dibandingkan dengan posisi politik Bang Ali dan Fatwa sudah terbalik 360 derajat.

Seperti layaknya sebuah "kebetulan sejarah", kunjungan Bang Ali dan Fatwa mau tak mau mengingatkan orang tentang terjadinya sebuah sejarah penting di republik ini. Tanggal 5 Mei 2005 merupakan peringatan 25 tahun Pernyataan Keprihatinan/Petisi 50.

Seperempat abad yang lalu, Bang Ali bersama 49 tokoh kawakan menerbitkan "Pernyataan Keprihatinan". Isinya mengkritik pidato Pak Harto yang diucapkannya dalam Rapat Pimpinan ABRI di Pekanbaru pada 27 Maret 1980 dan dalam kesempatan HUT Kopassandha di Cijantung, 16 April 1980.

Kelompok Petisi 50 terdiri dari beragam tokoh dari berbagai latar belakang profesi. Jenderal-jenderal purnawirawan, selain Bang Ali yang ada di situ, misalnya, Jenderal Besar AH Nasution (mantan Kepala Staf Angkatan Bersenjata) atau Hoegeng (mantan Kepala Polri).

Politisi-politisi kawakan juga banyak, seperti tokoh Islam Mohammad Natsir, tokoh nasionalis Manai Sophiaan, sampai perempuan pejuang kita, SK Trimurti. Beberapa bekas aktivis perjuangan mahasiswa juga ada, seperti Judilherry Justam (angkatan Malari) atau Bram Zakir (angkatan NKK/BKK).

ISI "Pernyataan Keprihatinan" pada dasarnya ditujukan kepada kebiasaan Pak Harto yang tiap sebentar mengidentifikasikan dirinya Pancasila. Jadi yang menyerang Pak Harto seolah-olah menyerang Pancasila dan dianggap sebagai subversi yang ingin menggantikan kepemimpinan nasional.

Pak Harto marah sampai- sampai anaknya Bang Ali pun dilarang meminjam uang ke bank. Siapa pun yang ingin Pak Harto hadir dalam pesta pernikahan anak mereka, pada acara terkait seluruh tokoh Petisi 50 dilarang datang.

Ia melupakan sejarah bahwa Bung Karno yang menggali Pancasila. Ia memang haus kuasa dan bersikap tak demokratis karena semata-mata ingin membangun negara kita yang tercinta lewat Repelita.

Pada edisi terakhir rubrik ini, saya menulis sebuah kalimat, "Meskipun kedua pemimpin (maksudnya Bung Karno dan Pak Harto) melakukan kesalahan-kesalahan, janganlah kita melupakan jasa mereka". Namun, jangan kita lupa kepada orang-orang di sekitar Pak Harto yang sejak awal ikut-ikutan menjerumuskan sekaligus memetik keuntungan.

Orang-orang itu sampai sekarang masih saja berkeliaran. Dalam bahasa Inggris mereka disebut sebagai men for all seasons atau-dalam bahasa Indonesia-artinya para petualang musiman.

Dalam bahasa politik populer mereka disebut sebagai "cognoscenti" atau kelompok "mahatahu" yang berkeliaran di sekitar pusat-pusat kekuasaan di Ibu Kota. Sampai sekarang mereka masih ada di sekeliling kita dengan menyembunyikan identitas sebagai pengurus partai politik, anggota parlemen, pakar dan ilmuwan, bankir dan wartawan, sampai para pejabat pemerintahan.

Kelompok "cognoscenti" cuma mengenal istilah kekuasaan, kekayaan, dan orang-orang peliharaan. Mereka menjadi pusat perhatian, sangat menguasai ilmu "perngibulan", cepat menyabet kesempatan, dan secepat kilat kabur ke luar negeri untuk menghindari penangkapan.

Mereka cepat berganti rupa, berpindah-pindah afiliasi politik, jago menjadi tukang tadah, dan lihai memindah-mindahkan kredit bermasalah. Di masa Orde Baru menjadi menteri, di masa awal reformasi menjadi anggota parlemen, belakangan ini menjadi pemuka etnis, dan sampai kini masih dicurigai terlibat berbagai skandal korupsi.

Dalam dua kali pemilu tahun 1999 dan 2004 mereka mendanai sekaligus mengotaki partai-partai yang berganti-ganti nama dan ideologi. Dalam rangka menyelamatkan diri, mereka mampu tampil sebagai pengurus olahraga, pembina warung tegal, atau budayawan.

Mereka tahu persis berapa banyak anggaran pembangunan yang bisa di-tilep, berapa harga mark-up proyek, dan berapa pula tarif menyogok aparat hukum. Mereka masih bisa menyelenggarakan korupsi berjemaah atau mabuk-mabukan sambil menembak orang yang tidak bersalah.

Sebagian dari mereka sudah lama pergi ke alam baka ketika Pak Harto masih berkuasa. Sebagian lagi sampai sekarang masih berkiprah dan kadang kala Anda bisa melihat mereka di berbagai media massa.

Selama sekitar 30 tahun, mereka dengan bangga mencatut diri sebagai "anak Harto" alias anak hasil didikan Pak Harto. Tatkala zaman berubah, mereka cepat-cepat ganti loyalitas kepada putrinya Bung Karno.

Sekarang mereka ada bersama Pak Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono. Wah, ciloko! ( e-mail: bas2806@kompas.com )

It was a pity what happened in 1998. IF ONLY Suharto resigned in January 1998 (when he was uninamously elected as President for 7th term) - or better still before 1997 elections (and economic crisis), he'd be to Indonesians what Mahathir is now to Malaysians...resign during his peak.
Like my old poli sci professor always love to say, "majority of the time, a dictator will resign one minute too late." i do believe that he stayed on for his children. He knew that the knives were out and they were a big target. In the end, his children corrupted him.

I know this article isn't very related to the title, just wanted to avoid creating a new thread.

Anyway, this thread is about SBY wanting to revive some of the old pre-crisis welfare programs such as Posyandu, PIN etc.

Dihidupkan, Program Masa Lalu yang Baik


Jakarta, Kompas - Untuk mengatasi masalah polio, busung lapar, dan gizi buruk yang terjadi di berbagai tempat di Indonesia akhir-akhir ini, Presiden Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono minta agar program-program dari pemerintahan masa lalu yang terabaikan selama tujuh tahun masa reformasi ini dihidupkan kembali. Program-program tersebut antara lain pendidikan kesejahteraan keluarga, pos pelayanan terpadu, pekan imunisasi nasional, dan apotek hidup.

Dalam rangka menjaga keamanan dan mencegah aksi terorisme, Presiden juga meminta agar dihidupkan kembali atau difungsikan kembali Badan Koordinasi Intelijen Daerah (Bakorda). Presiden menekankan agar kerja aparat intelijen seluruh instansi dipadukan dan partisipasi masyarakat dilibatkan melalui pemberian informasi.

Presiden menyampaikan hal itu dalam dua acara terpisah, hari Kamis (9/6) kemarin dan Rabu lalu. Kemarin Presiden bicara dengan para gubernur seluruh Indonesia di Kantor Kepresidenan Jakarta. Hadir antara lain Wakil Presiden Jusuf Kalla dan para menteri kabinet. Rapat delapan jam kemarin membahas masalah keamanan nasional dan masalah kesejahteraan rakyat

Rabu lalu Presiden bicara dalam acara penandatanganan kerja sama Komite Pemberantasan Kemiskinan dengan Gubernur Bank Indonesia di Istana Negara, Jakarta.

Kemarin, seusai pertemuan sekitar delapan jam antara Presiden dan para gubernur, Menteri Dalam Negeri Moh Ma’ruf mengatakan kepada wartawan, "Petunjuk Bapak Presiden sangat mendasar, yaitu bagaimana kita segera melakukan revitalisasi dan refungsionalisasi program-program kesejahteraan rakyat yang lalu sudah pernah kita lakukan dan sudah memberikan keberhasilannya. Program-program itu antara lain PKK, posyandu, PIN, dan apotek hidup."

Menurut Moh Ma’ruf, Presiden minta agar program yang berhasil guna pada masa lalu tidak hanya didengungkan di tingkat pusat, tetapi juga bisa dilaksanakan di tingkat desa.

Para gubernur, katanya, diberi instruksi untuk segera menjabarkan upaya revitalisasi dan refungsionalisasi program-program itu. "Presiden berharap dalam waktu dekat semuanya sudah terstruktur kembali dan bisa berfungsi untuk upaya pencegahan jangka sedang maupun jangka panjang," ujar Moh Ma’ruf.

Sekretaris Kabinet Sudi Silalahi juga mengutip pernyataan Presiden yang mengatakan, "Pada masa lalu ada berbagai program yang bagus dan selama tujuh tahun terakhir ini mungkin ada yang terabaikan. Karena itu, hal-hal baik pada masa lalu itu akan kita teruskan."

Hari Rabu Presiden mengemukakan, "Tujuh tahun reformasi telah berjalan. Kini saatnya kita melakukan refleksi kritis atasnya. Saatnya telah tiba untuk melihat masa lalu dengan adil dan jernih. Yang baik kita teruskan, yang jelek kita tinggalkan dan kita ubah. Itulah sebetulnya jiwa reformasi."

Lima hal baik

Gubernur Gorontalo Fadel Mohammad yang ikut dalam rapat di Kantor Kepresidenan kemarin menjelaskan, Presiden memberi catatan, ada lima hal baik dari masa lalu yang harus dilanjutkan dan enam hal dari masa lalu yang harus ditinggalkan.

Lima hal yang perlu dilanjutkan, kata Fadel, adalah penciptaan stabilitas politik, pertumbuhan ekonomi, kesejahteraan rakyat, manajemen dan kontrol pusat-daerah, dan keamanan dan ketertiban masyarakat (kamtibmas).

Enam hal yang harus ditinggalkan adalah kepemimpinan yang terus-menerus, pengabaian demokrasi dan hak asasi manusia, tidak adanya penegakan hukum, koncoisme, KKN (korupsi, kolusi dan nepotisme), serta peranan politik untuk militer.
----------------------------

I purposely bolded those last two paragraphs. One of the governors who attended this meeting with the President said one of the conclusions of the meeting was that 'political stability', 'economic growth', 'people's welfare'...and 'the security and discipline of society' should be re-emphasised after being neglected in the last 7 years. To me taht sounds a lot like Suharto's slogan of 'national stability' (kestabilan nasional), development ("pembangunan"), etc. which have been used to justify a lot of extra-judicial crackdowns and human-rights violation, and became the political discourse to entrench suharto's rule.
anyone have opinion on this? To be fair, he did say that democracy , human rights, rule of law, corruption education and civil rule should continually be defended.

Soeharto welfare concepts renewed


In addition to reviving an intelligence system introduced by former president Soeharto, President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono also plans to adopt a number of welfare programs that were originally initiated by the now ailing former leader.

Among the programs that will be revived are immunization week, the family prosperity program, the integrated health post system, community cooperation week and national health week.

"Not everything from the past is bad. Most of the programs are good. The welfare problems we are facing in the country are partly because we failed to continue these programs," said Cabinet Secretary Sudi.

Sudi also said that during their meeting, Susilo ordered the governors to adopt the values of the old management system used during the Soeharto era, which followed the popular Javanese sayings, "Ing Ngarsa Sun Tuladha" (leading by example), "Ing Madya Mangun Karsa" (inspiring) and "Tut Wuri Handayani" (motivating). -- JP

no one talks about Suharto Kritis? I get the feeling next week....

kepemimpinan yang terus-menerus, pengabaian demokrasi dan hak asasi manusia, tidak adanya penegakan hukum, koncoisme, KKN (korupsi, kolusi dan nepotisme), serta peranan politik untuk militer.



Trully Soeharto

Actually Indonesia now is in urgent need of Suharto-kind politician and leader. Indonesia needs very strong and straight boss. We can take China as the best example. China has this kind of leader and now they are gaining very rapid economic growth and welfare for their people.

^^ Of course... Tapi tanpa merubah konstitusi ataupun kebebasan demokrasi yg sekarang berlangsung.

Secara klinis, katanya Suharto itu sebenarnya sudah mati. Kalau kata Menkes "kehidupan palsu". Ya itu faktanya. Jadi yg sekarang masih bekerja itu alat2 kesehatan yg tertanam dan menempel pada tubuhnya. Kalau dilepas, mungkin organnya 100% tidak jalan lagi...

there was a saying from a paranormal that I got from another forum that when a President in Indonesia ruling over 30 years past away, Indonesia would be Richer than the US because the US had lots of Hutang to Sukarno (aneh ya gak sambung banget :lol:)

anyways, yes we need someone like Suharto minus a family which likes to embezzle. I don't see SBY as it(orgnya kurang tegas and not a visionair). someone that could create rapid development..

=====================
BTW my Surname is Suharto loo ;)

Under Soeharto the Indonesian economy was in the hands of Indonesian citizens. But after his departure the economy has been too open to foreign influence.

If Suharto dies, it would truly be the end of an era...after all, this is the guy who embodied everything about Indonesia for most of the latter half of the 20th century. For the younger members of the forum, it's hard to explain how dominant and powering figure he was during the New Order era...now that times have changed and we've learnt from Pak Harto's mistakes (corruption and human rights abuses, discrimination etc.) - and benefitted from the good things he almost single-handedly created (national pride, economic development) - I hope history doesn't judge him too harshly... it would be great to see a national reconciliation of some sort. Indonesia should not be afraid to confront its past...but at the same time, work towards a brighter future...

If Suharto dies, it would truly be the end of an era...after all, this is the guy who embodied everything about Indonesia for most of the latter half of the 20th century. For the younger members of the forum, it's hard to explain how dominant and powering figure he was during the New Order era...now that times have changed and we've learnt from Pak Harto's mistakes (corruption and human rights abuses, discrimination etc.) - and benefitted from the good things he almost single-handedly created (national pride, economic development) - I hope history doesn't judge him too harshly... it would be great to see a national reconciliation of some sort. Indonesia should not be afraid to confront its past...but at the same time, work towards a brighter future...

Yes... absolutely agree aith you.. even if suharto had dark background or he was not purely clean, actually he had some good performances while was leading this country...

If u're living as a local people in Papua, Timor Leste, Riau, or N.A.D ( the forgotten land, which are rich of natural resources).... U will know what Suharto really is ..

But If u live around Yogya, Solo, & (obviously) Jakarta ... well, what could I say ... what could I say ...

Well, actually ... I'm not living at that place around Suharto era ... I dont know how it exactly was ..... Well, I'm also surprised when I'm visiting "so-called" Kabupaten in YOgya and "so-called" Kabupaten in Riau ... Well, no need to compare it to N.A.D. or Papua,, it is simply obviously worse ...

Suharto oh ,, Suharto ... Well, because he is dying, right now ... I guess, many people's heart that has been hurted by any of his decision taken long time ago ... has to apologize him.

Lihat, Pekanbaru aja menjadi tuan rumah SILAKNAS ICMI, menjadi tempat penentuan keputusan apakah orang2 ICMI akan memaafkan Suharto atau tidak ;) ....

Kalau rakyat RIau masih benci Suharto pasti udah demo habis-habisan di depan tempat SILAKNAS ICMI ini ... tapi keliatannya tidak ...

Dari RIAUPOS

=-=============================

ICMI Sepakati Pengampunan
Senin, 14 Januari 2008

PEKANBARU (RP) - Silaturahmi Kerja Nasional (Silaknas) Ikatan Cendekiawan Muslim Indonesia (ICMI), Ahad (13/1) pagi berakhir. Salah satu poin penting dari 17 rekomendasi yang dihasilkan selama tiga hari itu,adalah keputusan ICMI mengampuni mantan Presiden Soeharto dan mengajak masyarakat untuk senantiasa mendoakannya.

‘’Tanpa bermaksud menyampuri permasalahan hukum, dan didorong oleh hati nurani rasa kemanusiaan dan kebangsaan, ICMI mengajak seluruh masyarakat untuk bersama-sama secara tulus dan ikhlas mendoakan Pak Harto.

Semoga Allah SWT mengampuni segala dosanya, memaafkan segala kesalahannya dan menerima segala jasanya sebagai amal saleh,’’ kata Ketua Dewan Presedium ICMI 2008 Ir Hatta Rajasa kepada wartawan, usai menutup Silaknas di Hotel Ibis, Pekanbaru.

Mendampingi Hatta, di antaranya Marwah Daud Ibrahim, Nanat Fatah Natsir dan pengurus lainnya. Termask Gubernur Riau HM Rusli SE MP, pun hadir.

Menyangkut proses hukum penguasa Orde Baru itu, ICMI memandang, tidak ada intervensi dan biara masalah itu ditangani oleh lembaga yang berwenang.

Selain soal Soeharto, rekomendasi lain adalah masalah demokrasi. ICMI menilai, demokrasi adalah pilihan yang tepat. Namun, pelaksanaan demokrasi di Indonesia selama ini dianggap masih berkutat pada masalah prosedural dan menyimpan berbagai persoalan, seperti belum berfungsinya partai-partai politik dan kelembagaan politik, merebaknya praktek uang dalam pemilihan kepala daerah (pilkada), belum tegaknya hukum serta terabaikannya moral dan etika berpolitik.

Selain itu, ICMI juga memandang perlu dilakukan perbaikan atas berbagai kelemahan yang masih ada di dalam UUD 1945 sebagai hasil empat kali amandemen, sehingga diperoleh konstitusi yang dapat menjamin penyelenggaraan negara yang sungguh-sungguh demokratis dan menuju kesejahteraan rakyat.

Untuk itu, perlu segera dibentuk komisi yang bertugas untuk mengkaji seluruh ketentuan konstitusi yang akan membantu penguatan demokrasi sebagaimana dilontarkan oleh Presiden RI pada tanggal 23 Agutsus 2007 yang lalu agar kelembagaan negara hasil Pemilu 2009 dapat berfungsi secara lebih baik.

ICMI juga menyadari bahwa hingga saat ini belum terdapat pemahaman yang sama, menyangkut pelaksanaan sistem demokrasi ekonomi secara jelas, sebagaimana dirumuskan dalam pasal 33 UUD 1945 tersebut. Ketidaksamaan pemahaman tersebut dapat berakibat kontrapoduktif antara paham ekonomi pasar dan paham ekonomi rakyat.

‘’Sehubungan dengan itu, ICMI menyerukan kepada pemerintah agar merumuskan sistem demokrasi ekonomi yang mendukung pada terbentuknya pasar sosial (socio market) dimana intervensi pemerintah diperlukan pada saat rakyat memerlukan,’’ ujarnya.

Dibidang hukum diperlukan perubahan mendasar melalui gerakan reformasi penegakan hukum agar dapat menempatkan seluruh masyarakat secara sama dihadapan hukum, dan menyingkirkan bias kekuasaan dan kepentingan material di dalamnya, agar demokratisasi ekonomi dan reformasi penegakan hukum memberikan kontribusi terhadap penyempurnaan penerapan demokrasi Indonesia.

ICMI juga mengamati sistem dan mekanisme pemilihan kepala daerah langsung masih ditandai dengan praktik-praktik yang bertentangan dengan moral dan etika demokrasi. Gejala-gejala tersebut mengganggu terlaksananya proses demokratisasi dan cendrung mengakibatkan terganggunya ketertiban, keamanan dan persaudaraan sehingga mengakibatkan terancamnya persatuan bangsa dan mengancam kehidupan ekonomi dan sosial masyarakat.

Makanya, ICMI mendesak segera dilakukan penataan sistem ketata-negaraam dam segera direalisasikan pemikiran dan rencana tentang pembentukan Panitia atau Komisi Nasional untuk penataan sistem ketatanegaraan, sistem pemerintah dan pranata hukum dan dapat dilaksanakan amandemen UUD 1945 yang komprehensif dalam suatu kerangka konseptual.

ICMI juga memahami betapa besarnya masalah-masalah yang dihadapi oleh bangsa ini, baik sebagai warisan masa lalu maupun karena kekeliruan di masa kini, baik karena faktor internal maupun faktor eksternal. Oleh karena itu, dirasakan pula perlunya sense of crisis, sense of urgency dan sense of priority para pejabat negara baik pejabat pemerintah maupun pejabat politik.(g)

..... For the younger members of the forum, it's hard to explain how dominant and powering figure he was during the New Order era...now that times have changed and we've learnt from Pak Harto's mistakes (corruption and human rights abuses, discrimination etc.) - and benefitted from the good things he almost single-handedly created (national pride, economic development)

..especially for univ.students at that (my) time... almost NO DEMOCRACY at ALL:nuts:

..... - I hope history doesn't judge him too harshly... it would be great to see a national reconciliation of some sort. Indonesia should not be afraid to confront its past...but at the same time, work towards a brighter future...

It should be a great lesson for a great nation (in the making) :)

From the movie BATMAN BEGINS :
Bruce Wayne : "why do we need to get FALL (in the past)?"
Alfred : "...to make us to get STAND (in the future)"

BTW my Surname is Suharto loo ;)

Sure ? :eek:

Yah...agree with alvin. Somehow, i miss a reconciliation in this nation. What this nation did to Soekarno in the past, should not be done again to Suharto... :)

^^yes.. I said Suharto loo not Soeharto :lol:

^^ isn't ur surname is Fahrian rite ?.. :D sorry OOT... :tongue2:

thats my first name :yes:

I get the feeling that in Wednesday or Friday is his time :(

oh..icicic :yes: yea...i bet on Thursday.. :D who's gonna bet on Saturday then ?..cmon..cmon.... he he he :D

If u're living as a local people in Papua, Timor Leste, Riau, or N.A.D ( the forgotten land, which are rich of natural resources).... U will know what Suharto really is ..

But If u live around Yogya, Solo, & (obviously) Jakarta ... well, what could I say ... what could I say ...



Thank you for summing it up, Ilham.

Forgiveness is one thing, but accountability is another. I say bring him to justice, in absentia or whatever. Everybody speaks of a strong ruler, now we're being tested we suddenly get all weak? Justice is justice, no matter who you are.

I don't understand people who want to "forgive" him for all his past sins in the name of moralytu. Question 1 to those people: Were you or anyone in your family got hurt during Soeharto's reign? Question 2: Do you even know what he has done to the people of Indonesia?

Moral = justice. So when someone does wrong, in conscience, he will have to be brought to justice. He didn't kill (or let) hundreds of thousands of people "accidently", or as a "mistake". He didn't curb democracy or freedom of speech as a "mistake". And definitely not the corruption. Don't blame his children and his cronies only; after all, HE was the one who let all that happen. If he was incapable of being a ruler, then he shouldn't have been. Simple.

OK, so he did build some buildings, some strong economy, and all that. Uhm wait, but isn't that what a president supposed to do??? It's not supposed to be anything special, it's what his job supposed to make him do! It's like asking a martabak keju seller to make a martabak keju, and pay him extra because he makes that martabak tastes like martabak keju. It's stupid.

But ok, he did create some growth, in FEW provinces, while the rest rot and died. The whole Bhineka tunggal ika was forced, and it was false.

Corruption may have been even more widespread now, but we shouldn't be picking "the lesser of two evil" and comparing Suharto's era of corruption and today. If anything, there shouldn't be ANY corruption at all! We got to where we are because of his government. Ps. It is still his people or the people who love him who rule the country now, so is it really any wonder why we're still rotting?

We can be more without him. We had STRONG potential for growth, MUCH stronger than what he "gave" us, but it was his curb of democracy (among MANY other) that keeps us in the dark.

So fuck him, everybody dies, so why is his all that important? Recently, one of our TKW (who, collectively as "pahlawan devisa", brought in 25 trillion rupiah anually) was shot to death, and the government only put in 10 billion rupiah for the diplomatic effort (for ALL TKW). This action (or lack thereof) speaks volume of our government's respect of the citizen.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

love you bro !!!!

personally, i gave up already trying to understand the indonesian psyche.

anyway, it's time to move on

Suharto's victims not so ready to forgive
By Seth Mydans
Thursday, January 17, 2008

SOLO, Indonesia: Gilang was one of the last victims of Suharto's harsh 32-year rule, a young activist who disappeared on the day the former president was forced from power 10 years ago and whose body was found six days later, shot, stabbed and disemboweled.

As with many of Suharto's victims, his killers have never been identified or brought to justice, escaping prosecution much as Suharto himself has done over the past decade.

Now, on what appears to be his deathbed, it seems Suharto will end his life - like Pol Pot in Cambodia - without having to answer for crimes on a monumental scale that include severe human rights abuses and prodigious corruption.

For the past two weeks Suharto, 86, has struggled for life in a Jakarta hospital with what doctors say is multiple organ failure. Along with a stream of medical reports about his condition, a debate has emerged over whether to honor him as a statesman or to pursue him as a criminal even after his death.

The day of Gilang's disappearance, May 21, 1998, marked the end of a regime in which hundreds of thousands of people were killed in purges, massacres, assassinations, kidnappings and civil wars.

It was a regime that has been compared with a Mafia empire in which Suharto, as president, enriched himself, his family and his friends and is accused of stealing at least $15 billion in state funds.

It ended when Suharto's power was undermined by a devastating economic collapse, widespread rioting, student demonstrations and finally rejection by his own military and cabinet ministers.

Now in the capital, Jakarta, the mood seems to be forgiveness and amnesia. A parade of politicians, religious figures, pop stars and three foreign leaders has paid hushed visits to his bedside as if he were already lying in state.
A number of public figures have joined a call for an end to investigations and prosecutions against him as unseemly.

Criminal corruption cases against him were shelved years ago but could be revived. The government recently discussed with Suharto's family the settlement of a civil case seeking $1.4 billion for money allegedly stolen from charitable foundations.

"There is nothing wrong if we pardon the mistakes made by our former leader, who has made significant contributions to the nation," said Suryadharma Ali, the minister for small and medium enterprises, in a commonly heard comment.
The philosophy behind this view was articulated the other day by a trader named Japendi Hendry Christianto, 33, as he sat on a stool on the sidewalk here in Solo, in central Java.

"Many people see Suharto as the tiger that eats the deer," he said. "It is not cruel. It is natural. This is what tigers do." Every animal has its own nature, he said, and must accept its place in the natural order.

"Suharto cannot be tried, because he is the tiger," Japendi said. "He is the king of the jungle. He will die a natural death, and the worms will eat him. It is the cycle of life."

But as the days have passed, other voices have emerged, taking the view that Suharto's crimes are too enormous to shunt aside and that no one is above the law.

"We cannot excuse him," said Hendardi, who heads the Indonesian Legal Aid and Human Rights Association. "Forgiveness is in the private domain, but law enforcement is in the public domain. We cannot set a precedent that discriminates in favor of the powerful."

One of Suharto's successors as president, Abdurrahman Wahid, also said the law must take its course.

"It is all right to forgive someone's mistakes," said Wahid, who was president from 1999 to 2001. "For Suharto the charges must be continued and examined by the courts. After the trial it is up to people whether he should be forgiven or not."

Among those challenging the public mood of forgiveness are victims of the abuses of his rule, who have staged small demonstrations in Jakarta and here in central Java.

"Suharto must be put on trial to prove whether he is guilty or not guilty," said Budiardi, the mother of Gilang, who still weeps when she talks about her loss. "I cannot forgive him before he is put on trial."

Gilang, whose full name was Leonardus Nugroho Iskandar, was a 20-year-old street singer who joined the student movement calling for Suharto's ouster and who had been beaten and arrested several times before his disappearance.

His parents have petitioned the government to investigate the case but have received no response, his mother said. That lack of response has played out also on a national scale.

Four presidents have succeeded Suharto over the past decade but, facing the power of his money and his influential friends, none has pushed through a case against him.

Some people who say they are realists assert that no matter what the furor, this will never happen.

"The idea of putting former President Suharto on trial, which has been heard often lately, is now as unlikely as draining the oceans," said the weekly newsmagazine Tempo in an editorial this week. "What is the point of discussing things that are unlikely to happen?"
Government leaders and high-ranking officials are expected to attend Suharto's funeral at his mausoleum on a mystical hilltop not far from here, where he will be buried with solemn Javanese ritual.

Those who suffered under his regime may be left with only their tears and their anger.

Winarsa, 69, was one of the first victims of Suharto's rule, a schoolteacher who was imprisoned for 15 years in a series of camps. He was arrested in 1965, when Suharto seized power, at the start of an anti-communist purge that took at least 500,000 lives.

"All these people who are saying good things about Suharto don't know what they're talking about," he said. "What I remember is that whoever had a different opinion on politics from Suharto would be killed or kidnapped."
Three brothers and a cousin were killed in the purges, he said. He still carries the scars of beatings he received.

"As a human, no, I'm not angry," he said, although he sounded angry. "But if you ask me to say a good word about Suharto, no, I won't. For me he is not a good man."

he did more damage for the long haul than pol pot, marcos, saddam, pinochet, or any african dictators.

not only the massacres, but the long term effect on the national ethics & psyche.

it will take a century to repair. that's if it's repairable.

Suharto has passed away...

Bye Pa Harto...... saya sudah memaafkanmu kok... :cry: ;)

Innalillahi Wa'inalillahi ro'jiun

Mantan Presiden Soeharto Wafat

Jakarta (ANTARA News) - Mantan Mensesneg Moerdiono mengatakan mantan Presiden Soeharo meninggal dunia di Rumah Sakit Pusat Pertamina (RSPP), Jakarta Selatan, pada pukul 13.10 WIB.

Sebelumnya tim dokter kepresidenan mengumumkan bahwa keadaan mantan Presiden Soeharto pada Minggu pagi sangat kritis, pernafasan dangkal dan 100 persen kembali diambil alih alat bantu pernafasan.

Ketua tim dokter kepresidenan, Marjo Soebiandono, menjelaskan sejak pukul 01.00 WIB keadaan kesehatan secara umum mantan orang nomor satu itu menurun, kemudian terjadi sesak nafas diikuti dengan tekanan darah yang juga menurun.

=====================================================

:cry::cry: bye pa harto... ;)

Indonesia`s former president Soeharto dies

Jakarta (ANTARA News) - Former President Soeharto (86) died on Sunday (Jan 27) at 13:10 after he was treated about two weeks at the Pertamina Hospital in South Jakarta.

The Indonesian second president was admitted to the Pertamina Hospital last Friday on January 4, 2008, for suffering from anemia and severe edema.

Soeharto began his New Order government after then President Soekarno authorized him in March 1966 to overcome the chaotic situation in the aftermath of the aborted Communist coup in 1965.

A special session of the provisional People`s Consultative Assembly (MPRS) in March 1967 appointed Soeharto acting president and he was officially sworn in Indonesia`s second president in March 1968.

Soeharto who was born in Kemusuk village, Yogyakarta, on June 8, 1921, ruled the country for 32 years through six consecutive general elections.

Between 1960 and 1965, the national economy grew merely by an average of 2.1 percent annually. The inflation rate reached over 250 percent in 1961-1965 and even jumped to 650 percent in 1966.

After the stabilization and rehabilitation drive carried out by the New Order in 1966 and 1968, economic growth reached an average of six percent.

Thus, in 1969, Soeharto began to implement his ideas to lift up the country from poverty through five-year development plans called "Repelita".

At the start of Repelita I, Indonesia`s per capita income stood at US$70, and Indonesia was rated as one of the poorest countries in the world.

About three decades later, the country`s per capita income went up to US$1,155 and Indonesia was regarded a middle income country. The economy grew convincingly by an average of seven to eight percent a year over a period of 25 years.

Entering the 80s and the 90s, the inflation rate was maintained at an average of 10 percent, and in 1996 it reached 6.5 percent.

The result of Soeharto`s economic programs made Indonesia which had been crippled by poverty in the previous three decades, one of the newly emerging economies in South East Asia.

The number of poor people declined from 60 percent in 1967 to 40 percent in 1980 and 21 percent or 37 million people in 1987. With a population of about 200 million, Indonesia was able to further reduce the number of its poor to 11.3 percent or 22.5 million in 1996.

The success of his economic development earned him the title "Bapak Pembangunan" (Father of Development) which was conferred on him by the People`s Consultative Assembly (MPR) in 1983 in recognition of his success.

Through diversification in the agricultural sector, Soeharto also succeeded in turning Indonesia from a rice-importing to a rice-exporting nation.

In 1980, Soeharto declared Indonesia self-sufficient in rice and traveled to Rome in 1985 to receive a crowning award from the Food and Agricultural Organization of the United Nations.

The New Order era leader resigned from the presidential post on May 21, 1998.

Turut berduka cita...

May he rest in peace now

article from YAHOO front page

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/ww/news/2008/01/22/suharto_lg.jpg

Ex-Indonesian dictator Suharto dies

By ZAKKI HAKIM, Associated Press Writer
13 minutes ago


JAKARTA, Indonesia - Former dictator Suharto, an army general who crushed Indonesia's communist movement and pushed aside the country's founding father to usher in 32 years of tough rule that saw up to a million political opponents killed, died Sunday. He was 86.

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"He has died," Dr. Christian Johannes, a member of his medical team, told The Associated Press, adding that Suharto died at 1:10 p.m.

Dozens of doctors had been rushed to the Pertamina Hospital in the capital, Jakarta, after Suharto's blood pressure fell suddenly Saturday night. Suharto had slipped out of consciousness for the first time in more than three weeks of treatment, doctors said.

Suharto had been in intensive care with lung, heart and kidney failure since he was admitted to the hospital on Jan. 4. Over the past week his physicians had spoken of a recovery, but by Sunday that had changed dramatically.

Suharto, who led a regime widely regarded as one of the 20th century's most brutal and corrupt, has lived a reclusive life in a comfortable villa in downtown Jakarta for the past decade.

He had been in and out of the hospital several times since being toppled by a pro-democracy uprising during the 1997-1998 Asian financial crisis for heart problems and internal bleeding.

Historians say up to 800,000 alleged communist sympathizers were killed during Suharto's rise to power from 1965 to 1968. His troops killed another 300,000 in military operations against independence movements in Papua, Aceh and East Timor.

Suharto's poor health had kept him from facing trial, and no one has been punished for the killings.

Corruption watchdog Transparency International has said Suharto and his family amassed billions of dollars in stolen state funds, allegations the family is fighting in court.

Suharto's successors as head of state — B.J. Habibie, Abdurrahman Wahid, Megawati Sukarnoputri and Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono — vowed to end corruption that took root under Suharto, yet it remains endemic at all levels of Indonesian society.

With the court system paralyzed by corruption, the country has not confronted its bloody past. Rather than put on trial those accused of mass murder and multibillion-dollar theft, some members of the political elite consistently called for charges against Suharto to be dropped on humanitarian grounds.

Some noted Suharto also oversaw decades of economic expansion that made Indonesia the envy of the developing world. Today, nearly a quarter of Indonesians live in poverty, and many long for the Suharto era's stability, when fuel and rice were affordable.

But critics say Suharto squandered Indonesia's vast natural resources of oil, timber and gold, siphoning the nation's wealth to benefit his cronies and family like a mafia don.

Jeffrey Winters, associate professor of political economy at Northwestern University, said the graft effectively robbed "Indonesia of some of the most golden decades, and it's best opportunity to move from a poor to a middle class country."

"When Indonesia does finally go back and redo history, (its people) will realize that Suharto is responsible for some of the worst crimes against humanity in the 20th century," Winters added.

Those who profited from Suharto's rule made sure he was never portrayed in a harsh light at home, Winters said, so even though he was an "iron-fisted, brutal, cold-blooded dictator," he was able to stay in his native country.

Like many Indonesians, Suharto used only one name. He was born Haji Mohammad Suharto on June 8, 1921, to a family of rice farmers in the village of Godean, in the dominant Indonesian province of Central Java.

When Indonesia gained independence from the Dutch in 1949, Suharto quickly rose through the ranks of the military to become a staff officer.

His career nearly foundered in the late 1950s, when the army's then commander, Gen. Abdul Haris Nasution, accused him of corruption in awarding army contracts.

Absolute power came in September 1965 when the army's six top generals were murdered under mysterious circumstances, and their bodies dumped in an abandoned well in an apparent coup attempt. Suharto, next in line for command, quickly asserted authority over the armed forces and promoted himself to four-star general.

Suharto then oversaw a nationwide purge of suspected communists and trade unionists, a campaign that stood as the region's bloodiest event since World War II until the Khmer Rouge established its gruesome regime in Cambodia a decade later. Experts put the number of deaths during the purge at between 500,000 and 1 million.

Over the next year, Suharto eased out of office Indonesia's first post-independence president, Sukarno, who died under house arrest in 1970. The legislature rubber-stamped Suharto's presidency and he was re-elected unopposed six times.

During the Cold War, Suharto was considered a reliable friend of Washington, which didn't oppose his violent occupation of Papua in 1969 and the bloody 1974 invasion of East Timor. The latter, a former Portuguese colony, became Asia's youngest country with a U.N.-sponsored plebiscite in 1999.

Even Suharto's critics agree his hardline policies kept a lid on Indonesia's extremists. He locked up hundreds of suspected Islamic militants without trial, some of whom later carried out deadly suicide bombings with the al-Qaida-linked terror network Jemaah Islamiyah after the Sept. 11 attack on the U.S.

Meanwhile, the ruling clique that formed around Suharto — nicknamed the "Berkeley mafia" after their American university, the University of California, Berkeley — transformed Indonesia's economy and attracted billions of dollars in foreign investment.

By the late 1980s, Suharto was describing himself as Indonesia's "father of development," taking credit for slowly reducing the number of abjectly poor and modernizing parts of the nation.

But the government also became notorious for unfettered nepotism, and Indonesia was regularly ranked as one of the world's most corrupt nations as Suharto's inner circle amassed fabulous wealth. The World Bank estimates 20 percent to 30 percent of Indonesia's development budget was embezzled during his rule.

Every channel, every newspaper, has just changed their headline....... ;)

Innalillahi Wa'inalillahi ro'jiun

my condolences for the lost of your ex president. the man who brought stability ,prosperity but also for some fear .

Innalillahi..

some people will never forgive him...
now that he's gone Indonesian people will have to choose to remember him as a hero or villain..

I'm sorry for his death......

Turut berduka cita.

Semoga arwahnya diterima disisi Nya & yg ditinggalkan diberi ketabahan amiin.

Innalillahi Wa Innal Ilaihi Roji'uun

innalillahi wa inna ilaihi raji'uun

Selamat Jalan Bapak Pembangunan Bangsa... Semoga diterima disisi Tuhan yang Maha Esa. Semoga segera muncul Bapak Pembangunan Baru untuk Indonesia.... Hilang satu tumbuh Seribu ( tentunya lebih baik dan tak mengulangi kesalahan soeharto )

:cry::cry:Good Bye Soeharto Tnak for everything you have done for indonesia......

Every channel, every newspaper, has just changed their headline....... ;)

Soeharto still 'big' person to Indonesia....

Selamat Tinggal...
thanks for everything...

td gw merinding pas nonton video flashbacknya pak harto diiringi lagu gugur bunga..

entah kenapa klo ngeliat cuplikan video td gw jd inget sm film "Pemberontakan G30S/PKI"..

Innalillahi Wa'inaillaihi ro'jiun .....Selamat Jalan Pak Harto......

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Sekilas tentang ASTANA GIRIBANGUN

ASTANA Giribangun di Kecamatan Matesih, Kabupaten Karanganyar, Jateng, bakal menyedot perhatian masyarakat pasca meninggalnya mantan Presiden RI, Soeharto. Namun tak banyak yang tahu kalau Giribangun bukan satu-satunya kompleks pemakaman terkenal di kawasan tersebut.

SEBELUM Astana Giribangun dibangun, orang lebih dulu mengenal Astana Mangadeg, yaitu kompleks pemakaman keluarga Pura Mangkunegaran. Di sini dimakamkan, antara lain, Kanjeng Pangeran Aryo Adipati (KGPAA) Sri Mangkunegoro I alias Pangeran Samber Nyowo. Kompleks makam itu terletak di lereng barat Gunung Lawu, sekitar 40 kilometer arah timur Kota Solo, pada ketinggian 750 meter di atas permukaan laut (dpl).

Agak di bawahnya, pada ketinggian 666 meter dpl, terdapat Astana Giribangun, di Desa Karang Bangun.Di Astana Giribangun yang megah, dimakamkan antara lain istri mantan Presiden Soeharto, Ny Tien Soeharto. Mantan ibu Negara kelahiran 23 Agustus 1923 tersebut meninggal pada 28 April 1996, atau dalam usia 73 tahun.

Ny Tien dikenal sebagai kerabat Mangkunegaran, khususnya trah Mangkunegaran III. Karena itu, tak heran jika pemilihan lokasi Astana Giribangun, tahun 1970-an silam, sengaja didekatkan dengan Astana Mangadeg. Tentang pemilihan lokasi Astana Giribangun yang lebih rendah, diperkirakan untuk menghormati keberadaan Astana Mangadeg yang secara spiritual dianggap lebih tinggi.

see Astana Giribangun pictures at : http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=289477&page=9

Requiescat in Pace, Rest in Peace.

He was a great man, despite so many bad things he had done during his absolute power in Indonesia, including corruption and assassinations. He was really great man, strong man in Indonesia and most influence figure in ASEAN.

I don't blame Suharto or Western bankers, because I think in the end Suharto was a great leader of the Indonesian people. When he took power Sukarno's disastrous socialist and nationalist economics had turned Indonesia into the third poorest nation on the planet; only Mali and Rwanda were poorer. Needless to say, Suharto transformed the nation into an economic powerhouse. The Asian Economic Crisis reduced Indonesia's GDP by 13%; during his rule Suharto increased the nation's GDP by about 1000%, so I think it's an even trade-off.

The quote that pretty much made me forgive him...

once again May He Rest in Peace and god bless him and his family.

The quote that pretty much made me forgive him...

I personally don't sympathize nor i empathize him.

i respect your opinion, but looking at your comment, i can't help but to point out one of the most important mistakes he did during his reign...

-What about the lives of 800,000+ people massacred in the communist "incident" he "orchestrated"????
-What about the genocide in East Timor killing more than 200,000 civilians...
-What about the massacres in Papua???
-What about the lives & freedom of the ethnic-chinese whom were "silenced"
-What about the "corruption" trend which Suharto introduced and became part of the Indonesian culture?
and the list goes on....

yes he did develop Indonesia's economy but at the expense of what? Millions of lives?

After pointing that, I don't think that made him so forgivable...
It'll take years maybe generations for the Indonesian public to recognize him as a hero or at least forgive him...

@bola
You can forgive him or not, it doesn't matter. Actually he's already dead, we cannot force him and take him to the court anymore. What can we do better than forgive him, forgive all bad things and mistakes he had done? After that, according to the TV reporter I just heard few hours ago, we should focus our investigation to his ex-men/women.

Investigate them and take them to the court, if we found that they were responsible or involved in Suharto's bad things... How about Suharto? In my opinion, individually, forgive him and let THY court take over the investigation upon him...

Hero? I don't think so... Personally I think he was a great politician and strong man, but unfortunately so many bad things. And I can forgive him, but it doesn't mean that his name will be remembered as a hero... It is different with forgiveness....

I personally don't sympathize nor i empathize him.

i respect your opinion, but looking at your comment, i can't help but to point out one of the most important mistakes he did during his reign...

-What about the lives of 800,000+ people massacred in the communist "incident" he "orchestrated"????
-What about the genocide in East Timor killing more than 200,000 civilians...
-What about the massacres in Papua???
-What about the lives & freedom of the ethnic-chinese whom were "silenced"
-What about the "corruption" trend which Suharto introduced and became part of the Indonesian culture?
and the list goes on....

yes he did develop Indonesia's economy but at the expense of what? Millions of lives?

After pointing that, I don't think that made him so forgivable...
It'll take years maybe generations for the Indonesian public to recognize him as a hero or at least forgive him...

iya2 I knew it tht someone was going to balas me... iya I agree with Venantio and of course its my opinion...I also read this article http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/01/27/suharto.obit/ after I posted... tp ya udah kalo udah meninggal mau di apain lagi to him? just like when Dr. Azhari(bombmaker) died... he did everything that pisses me off tp pas udah mati ya udah forgive him...its also in religion to do so

I'm with Farean & Venantio :yes:

G terharu banget, rakyat Indonesia, warga Jakarta khususnya, berbondong-bondong memberikan penghormatan terakhir di sepanjang jalan rute dari Jl. Cendana ke Halim Perdana Kusuma... ;) sbuah spontanitas yang sangat2.... :cry: dan inilah yang menunjukkan ciri khas rakyat Indonesia... ;)

Once again , Good Bye Pak Harto..................

Sejumlah Kepala Negara dan Kepala Pemerintahan Melayat Pak Harto

Jakarta (ANTARA News) - Departemen Perhubungan (Dephub) mengumumkan, sampai Senin pagi (28/1) telah mengeluarkan sejumlah izin persetujuan penerbangan (flight approval, FA) terhadap kepala negara dan kepala pemerintahan ke Bandara Adisumarmo, Solo

"Dari sekian FA itu, terdapat penerbangan sejumlah kepala negara dan kepala pemerintahan , mulai dari Sultan Brunei(Hassanal Bolkiah, red) , Presiden Timor Leste (Ramos Horta) dan Perdana Menteri Kuwait," kata Kepala Pusat Komunikasi Publik, Dephub, Bambang S. Ervan di Jakarta, Senin pagi.

Menurut Bambang, para kepala negara dan kepala pemerintahan itu masing-masing akan melakukan perjalanan penerbangan VVIP langsung dari negara mereka langsung ke Bandara Adisumarmo, Solo.

Namun, Bambang tidak merinci jam mereka akan melakukan penerbangan.

"Yang jelas penerbangan VVIP para kepala negara dan kepala pemerintahan itu, hari ini (28/1)," katanya.

Bahkan, penerbangan Presiden Timor Leste dijadwalkan menggunakan pesawat milik Merpati Nusantara.

Sebelumnya, hingga Minggu malam (27/1) pukul 19.00 WIB, baru ada tiga FA yang dikeluarkan yakni pertama, pesawat dari Indonesia Air Transport (IAT) yang dicarter Keluarga Cendana.

Kedua, satu pesawat Taq Aviation dengan register non-PK yang dicarter dan ketiga, pesawat rute Seletar, Singapura, ke Solo.

Seorang sumber menyebut, satu pesawat Taq Aviation (asing, non-PK) tersebut dicarter Keluarga Salim dan satu pesawat rute Seletar, Singapura-Solo, dicarter oleh Tata, mantan istri Tommy Soeharto.

Selain itu, Dephub telah mengeluarkan empat Notice to Airman (Notam) terkait dengan penanganan bandara dan pengelolaan lalu lintas udara.

"Salah satunya adalah pengoperasian Bandara Adisumarmo, Solo menjadi 24 jam mulai hari Minggu (27/1) hingga 29 Januari 2008," kata Bambang.

Notam sejenis juga berlaku untuk Bandara Adi Sucipto, Yogyakarta untuk antisipasi pendaratan pesawat non jadwal yang akan menghadiri pemakaman mantan Presiden Soeharto, jika Bandara Adisumarmo sibuk.

"Notam lainnya adalah pesawat non jadwal yang hendak ke Adisumarmo hendaknya meminta izin untuk slot time sebelum berangkat dan handling cepat sesaat setelah mendarat," katanya.

Selain itu, diharapkan, pesawat domestik diluar jadwal ke Adisumarmo, bersiap juga melakukan pendaratan di Bandara Adi Sucipto.

"Notam paling penting adalah Senin (28/1) mulai jam 06.20 WIB tentang perkiraan delay terkait dengan hadirnya tamu negara dan VVIP lainnya di Bandara Adi Sumarmo," kata Bambang.

Terakhir, kata Bambang, Notam terkait dengan kewenangan bagi otoritas Bandara Adisumarmo dan Halim Perdanakusuma untuk mengatur pergerakan pesawat VVIP yang hendak diparkir di Bandara Halim Perdanakusumah.

Sebelumnya, General Manager PT Angkasa Pura I, Bandara Adisumarmo, Solo, Andri Iskandri, menyebutkan sejauh ini sedikitnya 16 pesawat tamu negara yang sudah terdaftar di Bandara Halim Perdanakusuma.

Jenazah almarhum mantan Presiden Soeharto, saat berita ini ditulis, dalam perjalanan dari Bandara Halim ke lokasi pemakaman Astana Giribangun, Karanganyar.

Jenazah Soeharto diterbangkan dengan pesawat Hercules milik TNI AU menuju Adisumarmo, Solo.

Mantan Presiden Soeharto, wafat di Rumah Sakit Pusat Pertamina (RSPP), pukul 13.10 WIB, Minggu (27/1).(*)

Innalillahi Wa Innal Ilaihi Roji'uun

Selamat jalan pak Harto, sayang sekali saya kelupaan kasih tahu nomor rekening saya :), mbak Tutut, mas Tommy dan mas Bambang iklas kaan aja, saya udah iklas kok.

i955UFYHk0c

Innalillahi..

Malaysia terhutang budi

KUALA LUMPUR 27 Jan. - Malaysia terhutang budi kepada Suharto atas peranannya mengakhiri gerakan Konfrontasi Indonesia ke atas Malaysia selepas menjadi Presiden Indonesia, kata Tun Dr. Mahathir Mohamad hari ini.

Ketika memberi penghormatan kepada Suharto, bekas Perdana Menteri Malaysia itu berkata: "Kami memandangnya sebagai pemimpin ulung dan negarawan antarabangsa. Bagi diri saya, ia agak peribadi. Saya mengenalinya dan berurus dengan dia untuk tempoh sekian lama.

"Saya menganggapnya sebagai sahabat Malaysia dan rakan karib," katanya ketika mengulas mengenai pemergian Suharto kepada Bernama dan RTM di kediamannya di Seri Kembangan di sini.

Suharto, 86, meninggal dunia pada 1.10 petang ini waktu tempatan (2.10 waktu Malaysia).

Beliau yang memerintah Indonesia selama 32 tahun dari 1966 hingga 1998 berada dalam keadaan kritikal sejak dimasukkan ke Hospital Pusat Pertamina, Jakarta Selatan pada 4 Jan lepas.

Dr. Mahathir berkata, Malaysia menghargai usaha-usaha Suharto untuk menamatkan konfrontasi yang dicanangkan oleh Presiden pertama Indonesia, Sukarno, ke atas Malaysia pada 1962.

"Wujud banyak perasaan muhibah dan hasrat ikhlas dalam usahanya mengakhiri konfrontasi itu. Allahyarham menghargai hubungan baik dengan Malaysia," katanya.

Dr. Mahathir berkata, beliau menganggap laporan media Barat sebagai 'karut mutlak' menuduh Suharto dalam pembunuhan hampir 500,000 orang apabila mengambil alih kuasa selepas komunis gagal merampas kuasa pada 30 September 1965.

"Pada hakikatnya saya memang tahu itu. Saya tahu apa yang berlaku.

"Indonesia ketika itu huru-hara dan Suharto tidak mempuyai kuasa. Pada masa insiden pembunuhan itu, Allahyarham belum lagi menjadi Presiden. Allahyarham tidak mengarahkan pembunuhan itu," katanya.

Katanya rakyat tidak harus lupa peranan Amerika Syarikat dalam menyokong angkatan tentera Indonesia untuk menggulingkan Sukarno, ketika Barat mengkritik kepimpinannya pada tempoh konfrontasi antara 1962 dan 1966.

"Barat juga sama-sama bertanggungjawab atas perubahan berdarah kepimpinan di Indonesia. Siapa sahaja tidak harus dengan mudah menunding jari atas pembunuhan 500,000 orang sebagai kerja presiden Suharto seperti dilaporkan oleh media Barat," katanya, sambil menjelaskan bahawa Suharto sahaja yang memulihkan keadaan pada masa itu.

Dr. Mahathir menghargai Suharto kerana peranan besarnya dalam membangunkan Indonesia yang mempunyai lebih 13,000 pulau dan 200 juta penduduk.

"Walaupun Indonesia bukan merupakan negara demokrasi unggul ketika masa Suharto, hakikatnya beliau membawa kestabilan kepada Indonesia. Sudah tentu, ada harga yang perlu dibayar," katanya, sambil mengakui ada sebilangan orang yang menderita di bawah pentadbiran Suharto.

Penderitaan itu mungkin menjadi lebih teruk jika Suharto tidak mengatasi keadaan huru-hara dan memulihkan undang-undang di negara keempat paling tinggi kepadatan penduduk di dunia, katanya.

Dr. Mahathir berkata, beliau tidak dapat bercakap dengan Suharto ketika melawatnya di Hospital Pertamina, Jakarta Selatan, 14 Jan lalu.

"Saya fikir dia tahu kehadiran saya," katanya.

Mengenai dakwaan rasuah yang teruk semasa zaman pemerintahan Suharto, Dr. Mahathir berkata: "Anda tidak boleh menyalahkan Suharto semata-mata kerana amalan rasuah memang wujud sekian lama dan ia berlaku di banyak negara.

"Juga di Malaysia, ada rasuah. Jadi untuk menyalahkan sepenuhnya ke atas dirinya, ia tidak betul," katanya.

Dr. Mahathir berkata beliau menikmati hubungan kerja dan hubungan peribadi yang baik dengan Suharto kerana masing-masing mampu bercakap secara ikhlas dan terbuka.

"Menang sentiasa ada beberapa pertikaian antara dua negara tetapi pertikaian itu tidak menular kepada keadaan konfrontasi. Kami ada pertikaian mengenai tuntutan kawasan walaupun kita tidak mampu menyelesaikan semua masalah.

"Kami berjaya berbual dalam suasana mesra," katanya, sambil merujuk kepada pertikaian tuntutan kepulauan Ligitan dan Sipadan.

Kedua-dua negara itu bersetuju merujuk tuntutan pertindihan itu ke Mahkamah Keadilan Antarabangsa (ICJ di Hague, Belanda, di mana mahkamah kemudian memerintahkan bahawa kedua-dua pulau di pantai timur Sabah itu menjadi milik Malaysia.

- Bernama

Inna Lillahi Wa Inna Ilaihi Rajiun ..

Semoga arwah beliau diterima di sisi Allah SWT. Dan keluarga yang bersangkutan diberikan ketabahan. AMIN.

T_T, I was almost 24 hours late reading this news. .....I avoided internet last 24 hours. To make me fully concentrate for my study. Btw, this really shocks me.

Our national Flag is half-hoisted today in Pekanbaru and also everywhere in Indonesia (by RIAUTODAY)
http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z171/rilham2new/Pekanbaru%20Lovely%20City/COnstruction%20Update/stgh_tiang.gif

Put aside symphaty or not of Soeharto, I absolutely agree he's the grandfather of corruption in Indonesia

But I don't think Soeharto is directly responsible or orchestrated of some masacre atributed to him.

I know of one rarely mentioned "masacre" that Soeharto really responsible: PETRUS, Penembakan Misterius, which strangely most people agree with this action....:ohno:



I personally don't sympathize nor i empathize him.

i respect your opinion, but looking at your comment, i can't help but to point out one of the most important mistakes he did during his reign...

-What about the lives of 800,000+ people massacred in the communist "incident" he "orchestrated"????
-What about the genocide in East Timor killing more than 200,000 civilians...
-What about the massacres in Papua???
-What about the lives & freedom of the ethnic-chinese whom were "silenced"
-What about the "corruption" trend which Suharto introduced and became part of the Indonesian culture?
and the list goes on....

yes he did develop Indonesia's economy but at the expense of what? Millions of lives?

After pointing that, I don't think that made him so forgivable...
It'll take years maybe generations for the Indonesian public to recognize him as a hero or at least forgive him...

edited

Our national Flag is half-hoisted today in Pekanbaru and also everywhere in Indonesia (by RIAUTODAY)
http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z171/rilham2new/Pekanbaru%20Lovely%20City/COnstruction%20Update/stgh_tiang.gif

2 of 10 houses in my neighborhood do that.
i dont.

(tapi banyak juga kalo di rt lain.. :D)

Soeharto 'patronising' towards Australia
January 28, 2008 - 10:58AM

Former Indonesian president Soeharto was patronising towards Australia but understood the importance of maintaining cordial relations, former foreign minister Alexander Downer says.

Soeharto, who ruled Indonesia with an iron fist for more than three decades, died yesterday aged 86.

Mr Downer said today he had found Soeharto to be a proud man with a somewhat dismissive attitude towards Australia.

"He certainly took a rather regal and, if you like, patronising view of Australia but on the other hand he did understand it was important to have a constructive relationship with Australia," Mr Downer told ABC Radio.

"He wasn't a bad thing for Australia in a lot of ways."

Mr Downer first met the former dictator in 1996 after being appointed foreign minister in the Howard government.

"I went to Jakarta and I had a half-hour meeting set aside with President Soeharto, who ... had been close to Paul Keating and the former Labor government," he said.

"He spent most of the meeting - about the full half hour - giving me a lecture on the principles of pancasila which ... underlined the philosophy of the Indonesian state."

Soeharto's poor human rights record was a black mark against his name, Mr Downer said, and under his rule the East Timor issue could never be resolved.

"We certainly, as had the Keating and Hawke governments before us, made the point to president Soeharto directly and the Indonesian government about human rights issues," Mr Downer said.

"We were plagued - not just our government but the previous government - with the issue of East Timor and, of course, President Soeharto will have to live with that as part of his record.

"We wanted to resolve that issue. I don't think it could ever have been properly resolved for as long as president Soeharto remained in office."

However, Mr Downer said Soeharto had been far less hostile towards Australia than his predecessor, Sukarno, and Canberra and Jakarta had successfully negotiated a defined maritime boundary during Soeharto's time at the helm.

"He was well disposed towards Australia, albeit somewhat patronising about Australia," Mr Downer said.

"I think he saw Australia as a smallish country without a great deal of clout, which of course is wrong.

"But nevertheless he thought Australia important and wanted that good relationship."

Mr Downer praised Soeharto's strategic understanding of South-east Asia.

"He was certainly greedy, he was certainly a dictator, he certainly had a poor human rights record," Mr Downer said.

"But on the other hand there was much more to president Suharto than that. He certainly had a very clear vision of Indonesia's role in South-east Asia and in east Asia generally.

"He understood the dynamics of the Cold War, he was very anti-communist.

"He was, even beyond the Cold War, somebody who I think understood the strategic dynamics of South-east Asia exceptionally well."

AAP

Long read, but it's an excellent, objective account.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

No end to ambition

Hamish McDonald Asia-Pacific Editor
January 28, 2008

FOR three decades Australian leaders looked to Indonesia as the key to acceptance in South-East Asia, and to one man, Soeharto, as the key to Indonesia.

Soeharto, who died in Jakarta yesterday aged 86, ruled the world's fourth-most-populous nation for 32 years through a mixture of political astuteness, brutality, bribery and a deep affinity with Indonesia's popular cultures.

Often compared to the dalang, or puppetmaster, in the traditional shadow play, Soeharto came to power in what may have been been one of the 20th century's most dramatic and blood-soaked acts of political manipulation, the strings of which are still being unravelled.

He then masterminded the transformation of his basket-case nation into what seemed a paradigm of a newly industrialising economy - before the stage collapsed around him in the Asian economic crisis of 1997-98.

Soeharto was born on June 8, 1921, in a small house of plaited bamboo walls in the hamlet of Kemusu, outside Yogyakarta, the heartland of Javanese culture.

His early life was a disturbed one - his parents separated soon after his birth, and he was shunted between foster parents - explaining the blind spot that made him so protective of his real family later on.

For part of his childhood, he boarded with Wiryatmo, a dukun, or guru, of Javanese mystical arts and faith-healing. The experience left a deep imprint on a man who later clothed sheer power in powerful symbolic language.

After a brief spell with a village bank, he joined the Royal Netherlands Indies Army in 1940, rising to sergeant. The colony was surrendered without a fight to the Japanese in 1942. In 1943 Soeharto volunteered for the Japanese-sponsored Volunteer Army of Defenders of the Homeland, and rose to command a company.

After the Japanese surrender, he joined the independence movement and, as one of the few with military experience, quickly rose to lieutenant-colonel. He commanded the garrison in Yogyakarta, the temporary capital of the republic declared by its first president, Soekarno.

When the war came to a negotiated end in 1949, Soeharto was a seasoned military man with some status in the new republic, and an ambitious wife, Siti Hartinah, known as Madam Tien, daughter of a minor noble in the Mangkunegaran royal house of Solo.

The arranged marriage became an enduring and supportive partnership, but one later to create controversy. In the Javanese upper classes, it was accepted that in hard times a wife might indulge in genteel commerce to augment the family budget, allowing the husband to keep his dignity as a warrior, courtier or administrator. Tien showed a facility for this, a trait carried to her children and grandchildren, to the extent that it became the Achilles heel of Soeharto's presidency.

Aside from a spell helping put down Dutch-backed renegades in Sulawesi, Soeharto spent most of the 1950s as commander of Central Java's Diponegoro Division in Semarang.

Because of meagre official budgets, Soeharto developed links with local ethnic Chinese businessmen to pay his troops. By 1958-59, such army side business was a scandal.

In a crackdown by the army commander, General A.H. Nasution, Soeharto was relieved of his command in October 1959, and packed off to the Army Staff School in Bandung. But it was not quite disgrace. Soeharto was promoted to brigadier-general while in Bandung and, at the end of 1960, made chief of army intelligence. In 1961 he was given additional command of the army's new Strategic Reserve, later known as Kostrad, a ready-reaction air-mobile force.

In January 1962 he was put in charge of Operation Mandala, the military side of the campaign to win western New Guinea, which Soekarno called West Irian, from the Dutch, who were preparing it for separate independence.

In 1965 Soeharto was moved to operational command of Soekarno's next external adventure, Konfrontasi, against the newly formed Malaysia.

But Soeharto was already talking with the enemy: fearful that the campaign would draw the army out of Java and hand control to the 2 million-strong Indonesian Communist Party, the PKI, he had authorised a Kostrad intelligence officer, Ali Murtopo, to open contacts with the British and Malaysians.

Throughout 1965 the army and the PKI jostled under the ailing Soekarno. The anti-Western foreign minister, Subandrio, produced a draft note allegedly written by the British ambassador talking of "local army friends" and Soekarno asked the commander of the Indonesian Army, Ahmad Yani, about a "council of generals".

During the night of September 30, 1965, rebel army squads moved through Jakarta, murdering six senior generals, including Yani, and taking over key communications facilities.

At 7.10am a Lieutenant-Colonel Untung, the chief of the presidential bodyguard, announced on radio that a "September 30 Movement" had forestalled a coup by "power-mad generals". It was "an internal army affair", the officer said.

Soeharto, curiously not targeted in the putsch, assumed the army command, isolated Soekarno from the rebel troops, and used Kostrad troops to oust the rebels.

In Central Java, colonels and majors had declared their support for the rebellion in Semarang, Yogyakarta and several other towns. But within days officers loyal to Soeharto regained control of military bases, and the Special Forces (later known as Kopassus) swept through Java in their armoured cars, firing machine-guns at crowds of PKI supporters.

In Jakarta Soeharto turned the annual Armed Forces Day ceremony on October 5 into a state funeral for the slain generals, playing up the viciousness of the killings and alleged mutilation by PKI members.

Then, with encouragement from the army, religious communities came out to eliminate the PKI. For the most part, it was the more devout Muslims across Java. But Hindus in Bali and Catholics around Yogyakarta joined in mass executions that clogged the rivers of the two islands with bodies between October 1965 and March 1966. By the government's own estimate, between 450,000 and 500,000 died. Other estimates range up to 1 million.

In addition, hundreds of thousands were arrested and screened for PKI connections. About 36,000 were held without trial until the late '70s. Many, such as the writer Pramoedya Ananta Toer, were kept in labour camps on the remote island of Buru. According to the army's later papers, the PKI was behind the coup, manipulating gullible left-wing officers such as Untung through a mysterious "special bureau" that reported only to the party secretary, D.N. Aidit.

This case relied on a confession by the alleged head of the bureau, named Syam, during a staged trial in 1967. But it was never convincingly proved to Western academic specialists, and has been challenged by some Indonesian accounts.

Aidit had vacillated after Untung's move, indicating his surprise. Untung had been one of Soeharto's junior officers in the West Irian campaign and Soeharto was a guest at his wedding.

According to Subandrio, in an account written after his long imprisonment, Untung had told him soon after the coup that Soeharto himself had urged him on, and even assigned him troops. Both Untung and Aidit were shot after they were captured later in 1965, eliminating their key testimony. Although the evidence is far from conclusive, the suspicion grows that Soeharto himself pushed the naive Untung to eliminate rival generals and to blacken the PKI (whose newspaper, taken over by Murtopo's operatives, published an endorsement of Untung).

The West was delighted as Soeharto steadily removed power from the ailing Soekarno and destroyed the PKI. In what the Australian scholar Harold Crouch called a "disguised coup", on March 11, 1966, Soeharto sent a squad of generals to Soekarno, persuading him to formally delegate presidential powers. By 1968 Soeharto had completely taken over from Soekarno, who died a sick, isolated man in 1970.

The new regime was called the "New Order" - and order was soon its hallmark, and his goal was pembangunan, or development. Externally, Soeharto balanced his regime's visceral anti-communism and reliance on Western capital with an ostensible neutrality in foreign policy.

Konfrontasi against Malaysia was dropped and separatist rebellion in West Irian was foiled by a dubious Act of Free Choice in 1969.

The invasion and annexation of Portuguese Timor in 1975 was his only foreign adventure, one that ended ultimately in failure once he left office.

Indonesia's own political parties were corralled into two camps: nationalists and Christian parties into the Indonesian Democratic Party, or PDI, and Muslim parties into the People's Development Party, or PPP. Neither was allowed to develop as an opposition.

Soeharto's operatives drew on a corporatist ideology close to that of early 20th-century fascism in Europe, and built an army-sponsored co-operative movement called Sekber Golkar, a coalition of society's "functional groups", into an official party of secular development.

The Indonesian economy had been revived from the near collapse of 1965-66 by the macro-economic policies of the technocrats known as the Berkeley Mafia under Professor Widjojo Nitisastro, whom Soeharto installed and supported.

Within a few years they had put Indonesia on a path of 7 per cent annual economic growth, sustained for 25 years. The proportion of Indonesians in the "very poor" category fell from 52 per cent in the mid-'60s to 7 per cent by 1990.

Soeharto took a direct role in pursuit of rice self-sufficiency, reached by the mid-'80s, extension of basic education to all, and a remarkably successful voluntary family planning program that sharply reduced population growth.

But power and business breaks steadily concentrated into Soeharto's inner circle of family, relatives, favoured generals and some ethnic Chinese businessmen from his Semarang days, notably Liem Siu Liong and Bob Hasan.

By the late '80s the first family's rapacity alarmed even long-time military associates, such as General Benny Murdani. The six Soeharto children had come into their own as rent-seeking capitalists, with grandchildren already on the horizon.

This spree yielded an income stream measuring billions of US dollars a year by its heyday in the mid-'90s, though much of it was probably recycled back into pay-offs, military subsidies and campaign funding.

Soeharto relied increasingly on violence to remove perceived threats, using a greatly expanded Kopassus (Special Commando Force) as an assassination tool.

In the '80s the targets were 5000 perceived criminals, taken out in a wave of "mysterious killings" for which Soeharto later took the credit in his ghosted autobiography.

In the '90s the red beret troops targeted student activists in the cities and separatists in Aceh, and tried to set off communal bloodshed in parts of East Java with "ninja" killings of Muslim faith healers.

What became the regime's biggest worry was the Islamisation of Indonesian society, in response to rapid economic growth and corporate capitalism. Early on in the regime, Islamic groups had been anti-communist allies of the army but Soeharto himself had promoted Kebatinan - the animistic, mystical faith of the "nominal" Muslims - who made up the majority of his fellow Javanese.

By 1991 Soeharto had decided to tap Islamisation for his own political ends. He set up the Association of Indonesian Muslim Intellectuals (installing his protege, the science minister B.J. Habibie, as its head), made the pilgrimage to Mecca (coming back as Haji Mohammed Soeharto), and favouring a "green" group of overtly devout officers in the armed forces.

In 1996 the death of his wife seemed to remove much of the deftness from Soeharto's handling of national affairs but no one was strong enough to confront him.

Then the Asian financial crisis cut off the foreign funds that sustained Indonesia's industrial growth. By 1998 mass lay-offs of urban workers had created a volatile security situation, as students tested military control in several cities.

In the midst of this, Soeharto attempted a "business-as-usual" manipulated election for another five-year term, stacking parliament and then the cabinet with family and cronies.

It was his crowning folly. After days of protests and rioting in Jakarta, the resignation of key ministers forced him to hand over power to his new vice-president, B.J. Habibie, on May 21.

Soeharto retreated to his private residence in Jakarta's Cendana Street. Increasingly he relied on the testimony of doctors about his physical and mental inability to face trial on charges of illegally amassing money during his presidency, while his youngest son, Hutomo Mandala Putra, known as Tommy, and his crony Bob Hasan both went to jail.

Nothing grows under the banyan tree, the Indonesians say. As Soeharto's spooky shadow faded, the shoots of a distinctive Indonesian democracy have started to emerge.

Hamish McDonald was the Herald's correspondent in Jakarta from 1975 to 1978 and wrote Suharto's Indonesia (Fontana/Collins 1980).

^^ Very nice article :applause: Thanks alvin for bringing it here... :)

edited

The New York Times.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

January 29, 2008
Suharto Is Mourned in Indonesia
By SETH MYDANS
SOLO, Indonesia — Indonesia’s former strongman, Suharto, was buried on Monday in a family mausoleum near here with a military honor guard, Islamic prayers and an overlay of the Javanese mysticism that, for some people, had given him the aura of a king.

Twenty-three hours after his death in Jakarta following a three-week hospitalization, Mr. Suharto’s coffin was lowered into the ground in a crypt on a sacred mountain just outside Solo, beside the tombs of his wife, Siti Hartinah, and of three other relatives.

Soon afterward, the sky over the mountain opened in a tremendous thunderstorm, weeping for the death of a fallen leader, in the belief of Javanese mystics.

The funeral was respectful and low-key as if Mr. Suharto had not been driven from office ten years ago by rioting, demonstrations and a rejection by his military chief and cabinet ministers.

President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, who was a high-ranking general at the time, flew here Monday morning with Suharto family members, mourners and government officials in a small fleet of military aircraft.

“We offer his body and his deeds to the motherland,” Mr. Yudhoyono said at the funeral, where he gave a military salute. “His service is an example to us.”

He asked Indonesians to “open our hearts for everything he has done,” noting that Mr. Suharto had “made mistakes because no one is perfect.”

During his 32-year rule, Mr. Suharto ravaged the nation’s coffers in what the United Nations says is the most extensive instance of corruption by any contemporary leader. He ruled Indonesia by force and fear, and was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people.

No one since then has so dominated Indonesia, and his death seemed for some people to stir a longing for a strong and even overpowering leader.

“I feel that Suharto is the king in the hearts of the people, and I also feel that Suharto is different from other leaders in Indonesia,” said Emha Ainun Najib, a prominent cultural historian. “It seemed that Suharto had the aura of a Javanese king.”

As tiny birds swirled around the entryway to the mausoleum, a military honor guard delivered the coffin, which was draped in a red and white Indonesian flag and preceded by a portrait of Mr. Suharto in the full, medal-laden uniform of a five-star general.

The coffin was opened briefly and then lowered into the grave next to the polished marble tomb of his wife. Beside her tomb was her portrait on a stand, with what appeared to be a warm, welcoming smile.

There was quiet background music, a traditional melody called “Falling Flowers” about the death of a hero.

Standing at a microphone, their eldest daughter, Siti Hardiyanti Rukmana, offered an apology for what she called her father’s mistakes, as she had Sunday when his death was announced at the hospital.

Then, addressing him directly, she said, “Only God can repay you for your goodness. Farewell, father. We send our prayers.”

She was in tears when she finished, along with the family members who stood near her.

One of her sisters, Siti Hediati, raised a tiny camera and took a picture of the grave.

An Islamic prayer was said, a bugler played taps, and the family gathered around the tomb to toss in handfuls of white and pink flower petals.

Outside, behind a cordon of military security, villagers had climbed through the woods to watch from a distance.

The farmers here are beneficiaries of Mr. Suharto’s economic policies, and as with some other repressive leaders around the world, the harshness of his rule seems to have faded in their memories.

Standing last week by the bright green rice fields below the hill, a farmer named Sukanto, 50, said he longed for a return to what he remembered as the stability of Mr. Suharto’s rule.

“Suharto is the only president I admire, among them all,” he said, leaning on a motorbike and smoking a clove cigarette.

“He’s the one who gave us a better life. He gave us rice seed to plant, and he developed our country.”

On a street in Solo, a parking attendant named Gio, 45, said, “I know that people got wealthy in Suharto’s time, but we are only small people, and that is not our business.”

Farther away in the capital, Jakarta, and on television, many people remembered Suharto differently.

“You see on television they’ve been running the Suharto drama from morning to night for the past two weeks,” said Effendi Choirie, who heads one of the country’s many political parties. “Don’t you think it’s too much? What is it for?”

For Mochtar Pakpahan, a labor leader who was jailed during Mr. Suharto’s reign, the highly publicized rituals of mourning are deceptive. “The president called for flags to be flown at half-staff,” he said, “but only about 5 percent are doing it.”

On the streets of Jakarta, a small group of demonstrators used black paint to write the words “Bring Suharto to trial” on the side of a government bus and several storefronts, according to the Web site of Kompas newspaper.

There were sharp words, too, from Sukmawati Sukarnoputri, a daughter of former President Sukarno, who was deposed by Mr. Suharto in the late 1960s.

“Suharto was not very respectful of my father when he died,” she said. Unlike Mr. Yudhoyono, her father did not attend the funeral of his predecessor, she said, and there were no processions or 20-gun salutes. She is the sister of Megawati Sukarnoputri, who preceded Mr. Yudhoyono as president.

The strangest parting words came from Imam Samudra, who is in prison awaiting execution for his role in the bombing of two nightclubs in Bali in 2002, which killed more than 200 people.

“You and I are going to die,” he said in an open letter to Mr. Suharto, as reported by the newspaper Jawa Pos. “But, while my friends and I will die struggling in God’s path, you won’t. So repent.”

......
Soon afterward, the sky over the mountain opened in a tremendous thunderstorm, weeping for the death of a fallen leader, in the belief of Javanese mystics.....

nah...ini nih, g jg takjub. Setelah dia ga ada, Astanagiribangun tiba2 ujan gede, padahal cerah... :eek::eek:

nah...ini nih, g jg takjub. Setelah dia ga ada, Astanagiribangun tiba2 ujan gede, padahal cerah... :eek::eek:

ya.. sejak pagi hingga siang sebetulnya langit biru cerah, bahkan terik dan panasss sekali di Karang Anyar dan sekitar Solo, tapi selesai pemakaman sekitar jam 2 tiba2 hujan lebat disertai angin ribut / badai kecil.:ohno:

^^kebetulan kompleks perumahan tmpat gua tinggal di Karanganyar (8 km timur Kota Solo), hanya 100 meter dari jalan utama yg dilewati rute iring2an jenazah Pak Harto... jadi sekitar jam 10-11 siang gua sempetin nongkrong sebentar di tepi jalan:) lihat rombongan jenazah lewat

my opinion : NOTHING SO SPECIAL... ini kalo dibandingin waktu Ibu Tien meninggal th 1996, jumlah mobil konvoi yg mengiringi jenazah Soeharto kemarin hanya sepertiga-nya konvoi jenazah Ibu Tien...:ohno: bahkan jumlah pelayat awam ke pemakaman Soeharto tidak ada separuhnya jumlah pelayat awam ke pemakaman istrinya waktu itu:)

As a great Hero of the Indonesian Republic, we should follow his good examples in our daily lives

It is insane that not only he managed to get away with genocide and other unaccountable crimes, worst of all, he also managed to brainwashed entire generations to believe that he was a messiah. What he did is a damage irrepairable to Indonesian psyche in the long run.

No other country in the world with citizens accepting inhumane standard in every acpects of life in 'normal' circumstances (ie.not in time of war or depression) and thinking they deserve it as they denied access to know any better.

As an Indonesian who is lucky enough to have intellectual parents who protected me from succumbing to the insanity of general psyche, when I witnessed the offsprings of his cronies of elite minorities partying in world capitals fuelled by their swiss accounts, I couldn't help but to picture him and his entourage sitting comfortably in their bentleys as they dragged hundreds of millions of other souls spanning several generations of indonesian along with them for the ride of a nation to oblivion.

i couldn't agree more........
his sins outweigh his deeds...

^^ I too agree, in my eyes and from my mother's, he IS a criminal.

^ that's how I feel, but I know that in my heart I gotta learn how to forgive him.

edited

^^ How many times will you post that again ?...

i'm not posting it again and again.

i just moved them. as it seem like whenever i post it, some people just sandwich it between large articles mostly praising the criminal.

i will keep moving it to the less obscure position at the thread until most of the intellectually challanged youth of indonesia read it and re-think.

terima kasih besar.

It is insane that not only he managed to get away with genocide and other unaccountable crimes, worst of all, he also managed to brainwashed entire generations to believe that he was a messiah. What he did is a damage irrepairable to Indonesian psyche in the long run.

No other country in the world with citizens accepting inhumane standard in every acpects of life in 'normal' circumstances (ie.not in time of war or depression) and thinking they deserve it as they denied access to know any better.

As an Indonesian who is lucky enough to have intellectual parents who protected me from succumbing to the insanity of general psyche, when I witnessed the offsprings of his cronies of elite minorities partying in world capitals fuelled by their swiss accounts, I couldn't help but to picture him and his entourage sitting comfortably in their bentleys as they dragged hundreds of millions of other souls spanning several generations of indonesian along with them for the ride of a nation to oblivion.

my opinion : NOTHING SO SPECIAL... ini kalo dibandingin waktu Ibu Tien meninggal th 1996, jumlah mobil konvoi yg mengiringi jenazah Soeharto kemarin hanya sepertiga-nya konvoi jenazah Ibu Tien...:ohno: bahkan jumlah pelayat awam ke pemakaman Soeharto tidak ada separuhnya jumlah pelayat awam ke pemakaman istrinya waktu itu:)

my opinion : realistic saja, dahulu sewaktu ibu tien mangkat, masih ada pak harto dan masih menjabat sebagai orang nomor 1...so pasti semua orang ingin berlomba memperlihatkan rasa emphaty dan simpati depan pak harto ( terutama para kroni / sahabat karib & rekan2 ) sedangkan orang awam, mereka penasaran dengan kepergian ibu tien yang mendadak ditambah isyu yang berhembus kematian ibu tien dikarenakan tertembak oleh salahseorang puteranya yang lagi bertengkar hebat disaat ibu tien melerai mereka ( benar tidaknya ini masih misteri karena tidak pernah diusut secara hukum )...
maka tak heran kalo kematiannya begitu menggemparkan indonesia dari sabang sampe merauke...akibatnya ya seperti itu tadi, kehebohan terjadi saat pemakamannya,
untuk catatan, berita mangkatnya pak harto menjadi headline & breaking news nomor 1 di media2 Eropa mengalahkan berita lainnya.

^^ Di banyak media barat / eropa ... hampir dapat dipastikan ada kata2 "Diktator" di setiap judul beritanya :ohno: ..... Oh well, he really is a dictator. But, cara orang Indonesia melakukan penghormatan kepada orang yang sudah mati kan memang tidak sama dengan cara eropa sana :p~ .....

Our national Flag is half-hoisted today in Pekanbaru and also everywhere in Indonesia (by RIAUTODAY)
http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z171/rilham2new/Pekanbaru%20Lovely%20City/COnstruction%20Update/stgh_tiang.gif

Since yesterday until the next 6 days would be NATIONAL MOURNING DAYS...


2 of 10 houses in my neighborhood do that.
i dont.

(tapi banyak juga kalo di rt lain.. :D)

Paw ... aku penasaran ... apa di Papua ama Aceh orang2 pada ngibarin bendera setengah tiang ...... Secara, kawasan yang banyak separatis, kan kawasan yang paling teraniaya masa Suharto.... :onho:

Thief, thug, or the creator of modern Indonesia?
By Robert Elson

Posted Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:14am AEDT
Updated Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:28am AEDT

Indonesians mourn Suharto because he brought peace and stability to their lives. (Reuters)
Simply labelling Suharto a corrupt murderer runs the risk of leaving us with a one dimensional and misleading understanding of one the most important and influential Asian leaders of the 20th century.

Suharto, of course, was both deeply corrupt and murderously ruthless.

His corruption, though, was not of the kind that brought Imelda Marcos to such risible notice when her cache of shoes was discovered in the Malacañang Palace.

Suharto lived his entire adult life within the contours of state institutions, military first, then political; accordingly the crucial distinction between private and public spheres of activity always eluded him.

In his characteristically simple and pragmatic view of things, if money could be raised and managed in ways that promoted Indonesia's development or the lives of its citizens - and lubricated the patronage networks of those responsible for managing the process - there could be no objection.

That view had brought him trouble in the late 1950s, when he established unorthodox fundraising activities as commander of the Central Java division in the name of the development of his region and the subsistence and equipping of his troops.

It did later on as well, when he allowed too much free rein (and off-budget financing) to Ibnu Sutowo's efforts to make the Pertamina oil company into a vast conglomerate, to Ibu Tien's Indonesia-in-Miniature theme park, to Habibie's efforts to build high-tech industries of questionable economic value.

Most troublesome of all, though, was his increasingly blind indulgence of his greedy children's efforts to build business empires on the back of blatant rent-seeking, exemplified in such dubious schemes as Tommy Suharto's Timor car and clove licensing projects.

Personally, Suharto remained unostentatious and simple in his style of life.


Ruthless

Suharto's ruthlessness was as narrowly state-centred as his corruption.

He had a deeply corporatist and communitarian view of Indonesia, in which there were no social classes, no liberal individualism was tolerated, and in which all citizens performed their assigned roles unquestioningly for the benefit of the whole.

In that view, opponents of the kind of Indonesia he was constructing were seen a pathogens and cancers which had to be ruthlessly eliminated before they damaged the body politic.

That was the fate of communists, murdered in their hundreds and thousands in 1965-66, often by devout Muslims, of the petty criminals executed extra-judicially by the military in the early 1980s "Petrus killings", and of East Timorese seeking to overturn their forced integration into Indonesia.

For Suharto and his tightly conceived sense of Indonesia's proper identity and trajectory, such ruthlessness was no more than necessary self-defence in the name of the nation.

To qualify Suharto's sins is not to forgive them but to seek to understand them and the perverse, inhumane rationality that drove them.

Moreover, on the positive side, we need to appreciate much better than we do the nature of Suharto's political, economic and social achievements.

Taking charge in 1966 in a bankrupt country with spiralling hyper-inflation, a corrupt bureaucracy and limited and collapsing infrastructure, Suharto determined to reconnect the inward-looking economy to the competitive capitalist world outside.

Advised by an extraordinary group of intellectuals, he established policies to rein in inflation and stabilise the economy, and then set to the task of economic and social development with extraordinary success.

He was lucky that the two oil booms came when they did, but the resources they generated were generally invested wisely in social and economic infrastructure that fundamentally transformed the nature of Indonesia.

Absolute poverty declined from 40 per cent to 11 per cent in the 20 years after 1976, enhanced education facilities brought unheard of opportunities for advancement, population growth was contained, mortality rates drastically reduced, and an agricultural economy was transformed into an industrial one.

The Indonesia that emerged by the 1990s - proud, vigorous, outward-looking - brought world leaders flocking to Suharto to explain to them his social miracle.

In a real sense, then, it is Suharto, for all his sins, who was the creator of modern Indonesia.

That is why so many Indonesians, and especially the poor, mourn his passing.

It was he, above all, who brought stability and prosperity to their lives.



Robert Elson is professor of South-East Asian History at the University of Queensland. He is the author of Suharto: A Political Biography.

IMHO, Suharto should be seen in the context of the global communism vs capitalism struggle that occupied the most part of the 20th century. Yes he was a brutal dictator responsible for killing hundreds of thousands of lives during the 60s, but the US and other western states were complicit in letting it all happen in the name of fighting the communists. Perhaps similar arguments apply today with the US responsible for so many civilian deaths in Iraq, and the whole world doing nothing to prevent it. Suharto had a strong sense of Indonesian statehood, no matter how perverted his authoritarian line of thinking sounds today (the 70s,80s,90s were the age of authoritarian/centrally-led economic development in SE Asia - Mahathir and Lee Kwan Yu were the other two towering figures in the region) In the end, I think Suharto simply stayed in power for too long...as the old saying goes, absolute power corrupts absolutely. But most Indonesians, I believe, will remember him quite fondly for his economic achievements. Call it totalitarian brainwashing or whatever, but that is fact. Of course, the victims of his regime would disagree. In the end, it really depends on whether you were benefited or victimised - there are always two sides of the same coin.

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US propped up Suharto despite rights abuses: documents
7 hours ago

WASHINGTON (AFP) — The United States declassified documents Monday detailing how Washington propped up ex-Indonesian leader Suharto, who died at the weekend, at the expense of democracy and human rights.

The documents, declassified following requests under a freedom of information law, showed the US administration did not use its leverage to bring Suharto to account during his 32-year reign until his last months in office.

"One thing that is clear from the tens of thousands of pages of which we had declassified concerning US ties with Suharto from 1966 to 1998 -- at no moment did US presidents ever exercise their maximum leverage over his regime to press for human rights or democratization," Brad Simpson of the National Security Archive told AFP.

The body, a non-governmental research institute at George Washington University in Washington, collects and publishes declassified documents obtained through the US Freedom of Information Act.

Simpson, who directs the Archive's Indonesia and East Timor documentation project, said the only time Washington "decisively intervened" in Indonesia was in 1998, when it was reeling from a financial meltdown amid unprecedented riots.

Bill Clinton, the Democratic US president at that time, phoned Suharto about half a dozen times, pressing the Indonesian leader to adopt a stringent adjustment program demanded by the International Monetary Fund, according to the documents.

Suharto adhered to the demands of the United States and IMF.

"I think it is indicative of the kinds of pressure US could bring to bear when it decides that it is in our interest to do so, but this was done on behalf of international financial institutions, never on behalf of human rights activists and the pro-democracy movement in Indonesia," Simpson said.

The declassified documents include transcripts of Suharto's meetings with Presidents Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford and Ronald Reagan, as well as Secretary of State Henry Kissinger.

They also mirrored US perceptions of Suharto from the earliest years of his violent rule, including the 1969 annexation of West Papua, the 1975 invasion of East Timor, and the so-called "mysterious killings" of 1983-1984.

The United States was a steadfast ally of Suharto for much of his rule, providing him aid, weapons and diplomatic support as it regarded him as an effective bulwark against communism.

Suharto made his first visit as head of state to the United States in May 1970 amid rampant corruption and a major crackdown on political parties at home but at the White House meeting, Nixon told the Indonesian leader he was presiding over one of the "largest democratic countries in the world."

"There are no issues between the US and Indonesia," Kissinger wrote to Nixon approvingly, "and relations are excellent."

In his talks with President Gerald Ford at the White House five years later, Suharto brought up the question of Portuguese decolonization in East Timor and declared "the only way is to integrate the territory into Indonesia."

Ford gave no response, according to the documents.

There also was no mention of human rights in Indonesia in the briefing papers of Suharto's meeting with President Reagan in October 1982.

Two years later, when Vice President George H. W. Bush visited Jakarta on the heels of an alleged massacre of hundreds of civilians in East Timor and "mysterious killings" in Indonesia, the discussions centered largely on US ties with the Soviet Union and China.

The US embassy in Jakarta estimated that the government had summarily executed about 4,000 people at that time, documents showed.

Human rights abuses during Suharto's rule included a 1965-1966 crackdown on suspected communists and sympathizers estimated by historians to have killed at least half a million people.

Following Suharto's death Sunday, he was hailed by the US embassy in Jakarta as a "historic figure" who "achieved remarkable economic development."

"Though there may be some controversy over his legacy," Suharto "left a lasting imprint on Indonesia and the region of Southeast Asia," the embassy statement read.

Paw ... aku penasaran ... apa di Papua ama Aceh orang2 pada ngibarin bendera setengah tiang ...... Secara, kawasan yang banyak separatis, kan kawasan yang paling teraniaya masa Suharto.... :onho:

wah gak tau tuh :D tapi deket rumahku ada kayak semacam tempatnya PDI, mereka malah memasang bendera merahputih full 1 tiang

^^ brarti mereka bahagia paw... :D:D:D

the biggest legacy of suharto to indonesia :

generations after generations of brainwashed-simple-intellectually challanged citizens who will not make any significant improvement to the country the way most other players in the region did.

but nothing to worry about people! we/you still have vast natural resources that can be inefficiently managed just to keep most of the population barely fed (at least not starving).

while neighbouring countries use their resources to advance themselves and moving on to the new century, we will be happy enough to have food on the table.

selamat !!! :cheers:

LEE KUAN YEW :SUHARTO IS NOT GETTING THE RECOGNITION THAT HE DESERVES

JAKARTA: Singapore’s Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew visited former Indonesian president Suharto at a hospital in Jakarta on Sunday.

Mr Suharto is in a “very critical condition” after suffering multiple organ failure.

Speaking to Singapore media after the visit, MM Lee praised the former president for bringing progress and development to Indonesia, and stability to the region.

As Mr Suharto has been widely criticised for corruption and human rights abuses during his 32-year rule, Mr Lee said he is sad that the former leader is not getting the recognition he deserves.

Mr Lee is the first foreign leader to visit Mr Suharto after he was admitted to the hospital more than a week ago.

The minister mentor was briefed by Mr Suharto’s doctors before entering the ward where the 86-year-old ex-leader remains in critical condition.

Mr Lee said he has come to visit and pay tribute to an old friend.

He said: “I feel sad to see a very old friend with whom I had worked closely over the last 30 years, not really getting the honours that he deserves. He deserves recognition for what he did. And the younger generations – both in Indonesia and in the world – do not remember where Indonesia started. I do. That’s why I came here to visit him.

“He gave Indonesia progress and development. He educated the population. He built roads and infrastructure. And from Sukarno’s konfrontasi and other foreign policy excesses, he stabilised international relations, cooperated in ASEAN and made ASEAN more successful than SARC in South Asia. And today, we have a stable Southeast Asia.”

Despite the growth and prosperity that Mr Suharto brought, the former military general has come under heavy criticism for abusing his power.

Mr Lee said: “Yes, there was corruption. Yes, he gave favours to his family and his friends. But there was real growth and real progress. I think the people of Indonesia are lucky. They had a general in charge, had a team of competent administrators – including a very good team of economists to build up the country.”

Mr Suharto was forced to step down from office in 1998, soon after the Asian financial crisis that derailed the Indonesian economy.

Many had put the blame on the former president. But Mr Lee put the developments in perspective.

He said: “From ‘67 when he became president right up to ‘97, the economy grew and Indonesia was on the point of taking off the economy. It didn’t take off not because of his fault (but) because bank Indonesia’s interest rate was too high, and so the companies borrowed in USD for low interest rates. When confidence was lost after the Thai baht crisis and people wanted to pull their money out, the whole thing collapsed. It was not his fault.”

Comparing Mr Suharto to former Myanmar leader Ne Win, who came to power almost at the same time, Mr Lee said Indonesia is doing better now because of Mr Suharto’s leadership.

“In the 1960s, Burma had the same coup with General Ne Win taking over. He did not have this team of economists. He did it his own way – the Burmese way to socialism – and if you compare Burma with Indonesia, you would know what a difference Suharto has made.

“I’m very sad to see his life come to an end without the full glory that he deserves. There’re very few people of his age and my age who can remember the past. And if they can remember the past, they will know that in the 1960s, Indonesia was in very dire economic difficulties – hyper-inflation like today’s Zimbabwe,” said Mr Lee.

Through decades of formal ties established as leaders of neighbouring countries, it is clear that a strong bond exists between the two former heads who played a significant part in the growth and development of their respective countries as well as within the region.

i'm not really surprised that our lky said this about his friend suharto. lky, mahathir, marcos and suharto were very close friends i believe. the 5 of them started asean and made what south east asia the region that it is today.

The New York Times.
-------------------------------------------------------------------


The strangest parting words came from Imam Samudra, who is in prison awaiting execution for his role in the bombing of two nightclubs in Bali in 2002, which killed more than 200 people.

“You and I are going to die,” he said in an open letter to Mr. Suharto, as reported by the newspaper Jawa Pos. “But, while my friends and I will die struggling in God’s path, you won’t. So repent.”

Sorry, I don't understand what he does mean??

i'm not posting it again and again.

i just moved them. as it seem like whenever i post it, some people just sandwich it between large articles mostly praising the criminal.

i will keep moving it to the less obscure position at the thread until most of the intellectually challanged youth of indonesia read it and re-think.

terima kasih besar.

This would be the most weird posting I've ever read in this forum, Lombok at last someone beat your wacky postings now

Talking about his favourite words: INDONESIAN PSYCHE, it seems more appropriate talking about his psyche, or shall I say his psycho......?:lol:

If SUharto stepped down at the right time, he would be remembered as a great Indonesia's hero we've ever had. Despite his involvement in coup d'etat in 1965, he was succesful in bringing us to a greater country, freed us from big problems in economy, politics and also poverty, hunger etc. Unfortunately, he was too long on his chair. He made a very late stepping-down decision. He should retire in early 1990, but he didn't.

He was dictator, yes he was. But he had a very good country development program called Pelita. No leader after him continues this program... Having the program, Indonesia became a country with significant role in Asia and the world.... Unfortunately, corruption also grew up.

Briefly, he was a great man & great leader but he had done so many mistakes, including human right violations. It was like a coin with two faces, good face and bad. So was he.

IMHO, Suharto should be seen in the context of the global communism vs capitalism struggle that occupied the most part of the 20th century. Yes he was a brutal dictator responsible for killing hundreds of thousands of lives during the 60s, but the US and other western states were complicit in letting it all happen in the name of fighting the communists. Perhaps similar arguments apply today with the US responsible for so many civilian deaths in Iraq, and the whole world doing nothing to prevent it. Suharto had a strong sense of Indonesian statehood, no matter how perverted his authoritarian line of thinking sounds today (the 70s,80s,90s were the age of authoritarian/centrally-led economic development in SE Asia - Mahathir and Lee Kwan Yu were the other two towering figures in the region) In the end, I think Suharto simply stayed in power for too long...as the old saying goes, absolute power corrupts absolutely. But most Indonesians, I believe, will remember him quite fondly for his economic achievements. Call it totalitarian brainwashing or whatever, but that is fact. Of course, the victims of his regime would disagree. In the end, it really depends on whether you were benefited or victimised - there are always two sides of the same coin.

-------------------------------------------------------------------


Well a coin indeed has two sides. But, which side is really made "the capacity" to be considered of the coin itself. Of course the side which shows us the "financial quantity" ;)

ohh, maybe in the future, we need to make a coin with different sizes and extremely different value for both sides.

Just my 2 cents .... (lahh koin lagi :D)

the biggest legacy of suharto to indonesia :

generations after generations of brainwashed-simple-intellectually challanged citizens who will not make any significant improvement to the country the way most other players in the region did.

but nothing to worry about people! we/you still have vast natural resources that can be inefficiently managed just to keep most of the population barely fed (at least not starving).

while neighbouring countries use their resources to advance themselves and moving on to the new century, we will be happy enough to have food on the table.

selamat !!! :cheers:


Our neighboring countries (former) leader really did adopting Suharto's way in the way, they ruled their nation (in authoritarian way) :bash: ...

U know what, Mahathir regime was really afraid when Suharto stepped down due to the people power in 1998. U know, what in country like Malaysia, they have strict ISA-system to keep the opposition's in silence. Apa beda dengan Indonesia, we simplified the political parties into three main parties, and opposition (which in fully-democration country should be in position controlling the government) were kept silence (in a good and bad way, and also in a soft and firm way).

T_T ... I hate Suharto as a (so called) system (we called as NEW ORDERS (ORDE BARU)) .... But, I try not to hate Suharto as a person.... Well that's it.

As a great Hero of the Indonesian Republic, we should follow his good examples in our daily lives

excuse me....!!!! "a great hero" ??? what hero?:ohno:
and ... follow his "good examples", what examples?:ohno:

Yes, un-intentionally he gave us "lessons" ... our nation's biggest lessons ever :bash:

...but remember he isn't a prophet nor an angel, he was only our 2nd president... it's just enough that we should respect and honour him proportionally as one of our past nation leaders... not more than that :)

IMHO, Suharto should be seen in the context......................... But most Indonesians, I believe, will remember him quite fondly for his economic achievements. Call it totalitarian brainwashing or whatever, but that is fact. Of course, the victims of his regime would disagree. In the end, it really depends on whether you were benefited or victimised - there are always two sides of the same coin.
.

Agree with this, ^^
We know... even for long time he will always remain as controversial figure... though he'd already passed away...

Last but not least.... In the name of God and for the good of all mankind.... let's do respect for the dead

I'm sorry, I thought he was a hero in Indonesian eyes. No disrespect intended

I don't understand at all. How come any of you don't see whats going on!

Anyone who's talking about being benefited ignored the fact thet Suharto pawned their country and future for the long term to foreign parties.

It's like he's loan broker who got you a credit from a rouge money lender to buy a new BMW that otherwise you could not afford with your kind of salary, but then he used your house as guarantee while you still have to pay the high monthly mortgage.

Few years later, all you have left is an old BMW and a hefty repayment that you could not afford, while the money lender re-possessed your house. Soon, you'll be in the street. Slaving. A nation of slaves.

For your information, most of high flyer Indonesian businessmen & politicians knows about this, and planning the future of their children and family in safe havens like Singapore, Hong Kong, Canada, some EU countries and most notably, USA.

Berpikirlah ! Pikir ! Pikir !

Wake up people !!!!

I don't understand at all. How come any of you don't see whats going on!

Anyone who's talking about being benefited ignored the fact thet Suharto pawned their country and future for the long term to foreign parties.

It's like he's loan broker who got you a credit from a rouge money lender to buy a new BMW that otherwise you could not afford with your kind of salary, but then he used your house as guarantee while you still have to pay the high monthly mortgage.

Few years later, all you have left is an old BMW and a hefty repayment that you could not afford, while the money lender re-possessed your house. Soon, you'll be in the street. Slaving. A nation of slaves.

For your information, most of high flyer Indonesian businessmen & politicians knows about this, and planning the future of their children and family in safe havens like Singapore, Hong Kong, Canada, some EU countries and most notably, USA.

Berpikirlah ! Pikir ! Pikir !

Wake up people !!!!


Absolutely agree
that is why it was ultimately the youth (mahasiswa) who forced Suharto to step down from power..because the youth have not been "brainwahsed" and "corrupted" YET.

Suharto may have made Indonesia prosperous through his orde baru; but the stain he made in Indonesia is uncleanable...
Because of him, Indonesia will be the same in the next 20-30 years; struggling with poverty, lack of education, unemployment and so on...

It will take generations for Indonesia to surge forward like China & India did..
With Suharto's generation still leading Indonesia, there will be no major progress in Indonesia

I don't understand at all. How come any of you don't see whats going on!

Anyone who's talking about being benefited ignored the fact thet Suharto pawned their country and future for the long term to foreign parties.

It's like he's loan broker who got you a credit from a rouge money lender to buy a new BMW that otherwise you could not afford with your kind of salary, but then he used your house as guarantee while you still have to pay the high monthly mortgage.

Few years later, all you have left is an old BMW and a hefty repayment that you could not afford, while the money lender re-possessed your house. Soon, you'll be in the street. Slaving. A nation of slaves.

For your information, most of high flyer Indonesian businessmen & politicians knows about this, and planning the future of their children and family in safe havens like Singapore, Hong Kong, Canada, some EU countries and most notably, USA.

Berpikirlah ! Pikir ! Pikir !

Wake up people !!!!
^^ It's not ur forum, and it's my opinion... tidak ada hak untuk memaksakan pendapat disini.. ;) apa jangan2 anda itu salah satu LSM yang menolak berkabung untuk Suharto...well,cukup curiga.... :D :jk:and i agree with Ampelio that i respect and honour him proportionally as one of our past nation leaders... not more than that :)

Absolutely agree
that is why it was ultimately the youth (mahasiswa) who forced Suharto to step down from power..because the youth have not been "brainwahsed" and "corrupted" YET.

Suharto may have made Indonesia prosperous through his orde baru; but the stain he made in Indonesia is uncleanable...
Because of him, Indonesia will be the same in the next 20-30 years; struggling with poverty, lack of education, unemployment and so on...

It will take generations for Indonesia to surge forward like China & India did..
With Suharto's generation still leading Indonesia, there will be no major progress in Indonesia
Yah kalo emang smua orang sperti anda, Indonesia mau sampe kiamat ya ga bakal berubah... ;) karna dari awal anda sudah berucap begitu, anda sudah menancapkan mindset begitu, dan apa pun yang dilakukan pemerintah skarang, tidak akan pernah merubah image anda terhadap Indonesia sampai 200 tahun ke depan... ;)

Cheers :cheers1: No disrespect intended..

:omg: this thread growing so fast..!! :D

Yah kalo emang smua orang sperti anda, Indonesia mau sampe kiamat ya ga bakal berubah... ;) karna dari awal anda sudah berucap begitu, anda sudah menancapkan mindset begitu, dan apa pun yang dilakukan pemerintah skarang, tidak akan pernah merubah image anda terhadap Indonesia sampai 200 tahun ke depan... ;)

Cheers :cheers1: No disrespect intended..

How Ironic !!! here's the intellectually challanged status quo talking.

If the population keep thinking and talking like you, nothing will ever change. Not even in 300 years.

It's like, the rouge money lender give you a letter of eviction for repossession of your house, instead of selling the bmw, re-arrange your finance, you're still driving around aimlessly in your now-not-new bmw and go shopping. Soon you'll be in the street homeless. But you tell yourself : 'be positive, be positive'.

You must be joking. Unless of course, youre autistic. In which case, it's understandable. But of course not most of the citizens are like that. right ?!

Yah kalo emang smua orang sperti anda, Indonesia mau sampe kiamat ya ga bakal berubah... ;) karna dari awal anda sudah berucap begitu, anda sudah menancapkan mindset begitu, dan apa pun yang dilakukan pemerintah skarang, tidak akan pernah merubah image anda terhadap Indonesia sampai 200 tahun ke depan... ;)

Cheers :cheers1: No disrespect intended..

It's not that i don't appreciate the current government's effort or anything; but i think it's pretty obvious that Indonesia needs a major change more drastic than the current one to get rid of the "corruption" endemic from Indonesia...

For a change to happen, there must be a change in the way of thinking...

Justru kalo semua org Indonesia happy2 aja & nurut ama pemerintah; ini apa bedanya ama jaman Suharto.....

Kita tinggal di jaman demokrasi; kritik itu uda biasa....manusia ada salahnya :D:D: etc etc

Makanya maksud gw bukan mencela pemerintah, tapi hanya menjelaskan sejarah yg ditinggalkan suharto

How Ironic !!! here's the intellectually challanged status quo talking.

If the population keep thinking and talking like you, nothing will ever change. Not even in 300 years.

It's like, the rouge money lender give you a letter of eviction for repossession of your house, instead of selling the bmw, re-arrange your finance, you're still driving around aimlessly in your now-not-new bmw and go shopping. Soon you'll be in the street homeless. But you tell yourself : 'be positive, be positive'.

You must be joking. Unless of course, youre autistic. In which case, it's understandable. But of course not most of the citizens are like that. right ?!

RighT! Just look at you .. :D

whatever u call me, whatever u consider me as, even i live in a street homeless, i'll keep saying : ' Be positive.. ' coz i know the power of mind..

juz try an example..

i want you not to think about an elephant. NaH!! U're thinking about an elephant in ur mind rite now, rite ?..be honest....:)
we won't get rich or success if we keep saying : i don't want to owe , or bla bla bla...just by saying you are NOT, u'r mindset is changed!

i want to stress that saying something, or making a resolution with a word NOT on it, will just wasting ur time.. :) so, if we say that Indonesia isn't developing, or whateva, u'r mindset has been changed automatically..and u won't realised that.... :)

But of course, not most of the citizens knows about the power of mind. Right ?!

:naughty:

Cheers :cheers1:

Okay mat, no need to argue about me, since i'm not Soeharto's grandson, or his relative.. :D but i really want his warisan.. :D:D:D:jk:

It's not that i don't appreciate the current government's effort or anything; but i think it's pretty obvious that Indonesia needs a major change more drastic than the current one to get rid of the "corruption" endemic from Indonesia...

For a change to happen, there must be a change in the way of thinking...

Justru kalo semua org Indonesia happy2 aja & nurut ama pemerintah; ini apa bedanya ama jaman Suharto.....

Kita tinggal di jaman demokrasi; kritik itu uda biasa....manusia ada salahnya :D:D: etc etc

Makanya maksud gw bukan mencela pemerintah, tapi hanya menjelaskan sejarah yg ditinggalkan suharto

Okay.. i got the point from you bola :okay: i agree that Indonesia needs a major turnover..i think that we're already on the rite track now. What we need now is just a 'TURBO' power to accelerate our growth, so that we can catch up our neighboring country... That's ur point, bola ?

RighT! Just look at you .. :D
whatever u call me, whatever u consider me as, even i live in a street homeless, i'll keep saying : ' Be positive.. ' coz i know the power of mind..

juz try an example..

i want you not to think about an elephant. NaH!! U're thinking about an elephant in ur mind rite now, rite ?..be honest....:)
we won't get rich or success if we keep saying : i don't want to owe , or bla bla bla...just by saying you are NOT, u'r mindset is changed!

i want to stress that saying something, or making a resolution with a word NOT on it, will just wasting ur time.. :) so, if we say that Indonesia isn't developing, or whateva, u'r mindset has been changed automatically..and u won't realised that.... :)

But of course, not most of the citizens knows about the power of mind. Right ?!:

Right AceN... Positively Great! I got your point
You must have read "The Secret" by Rhonda Byrne... (I have read it as well:))

It's the LAW of ATTRACTION (God's law) that truly matters...

-------------
i.e: Indonesia gak akan lepas dari "kemiskinan" kalau pemerintah terus-menerus mengumbar kata "miskin" dan gak segera mengubah/menghilangkan kata tsb dlm wacana publik, seperti yg menempel dalam istilah RASKIN (Beras utk rakyat miskin) atau pun ASKESKIN (Asuransi Kesehatan Utk Rakyat Miskin) --- maksud yg baik dan mulia dari pemerintah utk mengentaskan kemiskinan tapi bisa jadi sebuah "blunder" dan "lingkaran setan" yg tiada habis2nya, my suggestion sebaiknya istilah program diatas diganti dengan istilah yg lebih "positif"

From what I'm seeing the vote is split 50/50 so I say we make a poll. Just out of curiosity who support Suharto and who doesn't. Personally its hard for me to support a leader who did harm on another person's life, killed thousands of families. But I know there's a good side to everything.

Lol @ people who forgive him. The only people who could "forgive" him are the ones who were hurt by him. And where are they? Either dead, paralyzed, in prison, or protesting in front of the hospital.

But now I know karma is bullshit.

At least it's a good ridance.

Right AceN... Positively Great! I got your point
You must have read "The Secret" by Rhonda Byrne... (I have read it as well:))

It's the LAW of ATTRACTION (God's law) that truly matters...


No, i read different book om... :D forgot what was the name of the book... :D:D Financial Revolution by Tung Desem Waringin, if i'm not mistaken :)


i.e: Indonesia gak akan lepas dari "kemiskinan" kalau pemerintah terus-menerus mengumbar kata "miskin" dan gak segera mengubah/menghilangkan kata tsb dlm wacana publik, seperti yg menempel dalam istilah RASKIN (Beras utk rakyat miskin) atau pun ASKESKIN (Asuransi Kesehatan Utk Rakyat Miskin) --- maksud yg baik dan mulia dari pemerintah utk mengentaskan kemiskinan tapi bisa jadi sebuah "blunder" dan "lingkaran setan" yg tiada habis2nya, my suggestion sebaiknya istilah program diatas diganti dengan istilah yg lebih "positif"

Nah...itulah susahnya dengan pemerintah kita..... jangan-jangan emang pemerintah kita akan mengangkat orang-orang yang berada di bawah garis kemiskinan, menjadi PAS di garis kemiskinan.. :nocrook:

Lol @ people who forgive him. The only people who could "forgive" him are the ones who were hurt by him. And where are they? Either dead, paralyzed, in prison, or protesting in front of the hospital.

But now I know karma is bullshit.

At least it's a good ridance.

Sudah kuduga daritadi malam, bahwa kamski akan nongol dan sependapat dengan mat.. :D:D :cheers1: :jk:

I wake up, berpikir, and come up with this ideas:

1. About the BMW: we can always sell it through ebay;
2. About money lender, who re-possessed my house: I'll ask Soeharto to occupy the house, so it became a haunted house; I believe the money-lender will afraid, deserted the house, an we can claim it again...

How does that sound?? I though that was original and briliant....



I don't understand at all. How come any of you don't see whats going on!

Anyone who's talking about being benefited ignored the fact thet Suharto pawned their country and future for the long term to foreign parties.

It's like he's loan broker who got you a credit from a rouge money lender to buy a new BMW that otherwise you could not afford with your kind of salary, but then he used your house as guarantee while you still have to pay the high monthly mortgage.

Few years later, all you have left is an old BMW and a hefty repayment that you could not afford, while the money lender re-possessed your house. Soon, you'll be in the street. Slaving. A nation of slaves.

For your information, most of high flyer Indonesian businessmen & politicians knows about this, and planning the future of their children and family in safe havens like Singapore, Hong Kong, Canada, some EU countries and most notably, USA.

Berpikirlah ! Pikir ! Pikir !

Wake up people !!!!

^^ :lol::lol:

ALL this crap about SUharto being a hero or villain is bullshit
now that he's dead only god can judge him
the only thing we can do now is hate him...
so don't blame some Indonesians for their hatred towards him

edited

Right AceN... Positively Great! I got your point
You must have read "The Secret" by Rhonda Byrne... (I have read it as well:))

It's the LAW of ATTRACTION (God's law) that truly matters...

-------------
i.e: Indonesia gak akan lepas dari "kemiskinan" kalau pemerintah terus-menerus mengumbar kata "miskin" dan gak segera mengubah/menghilangkan kata tsb dlm wacana publik, seperti yg menempel dalam istilah RASKIN (Beras utk rakyat miskin) atau pun ASKESKIN (Asuransi Kesehatan Utk Rakyat Miskin) --- maksud yg baik dan mulia dari pemerintah utk mengentaskan kemiskinan tapi bisa jadi sebuah "blunder" dan "lingkaran setan" yg tiada habis2nya, my suggestion sebaiknya istilah program diatas diganti dengan istilah yg lebih "positif"

Ha…. Ha… ha….

OK. I give up. There's no point talking to yous. You guys are hilarious !!!!

But I have to admit I do admire your take on life. Youre neck-deep in sh*t and youre still refers to some american bullsh*t of self-help books and thinking that some divine intervention will happen without ectually making efforts to change a thing. You guys are truly the product and legacy of Suharto's programmes. And for that, I toast for the rotten animal eaten by maggots 6ft under giribangun.

When I see Malaysians jetsetting allover the world, Thais taking over huge chunk of world market for tourism and are getting more organised and sophisticated (soon, they will not need visa to travel around the world just like Singaporean and Malaysian), Vietnamese are getting more sophisticated and developing at breakneck-speed along with China, Indonesians will be domestic-helping most of the middle east, and guess what, even the Phillippines stops sending their citizens to those countries.

But hey, it's your lives. From my personal perspective, it'll be easier to sell rubbish to a vast gullible market such as Indonesia. And again, I thank Suharto for that.

:lol: U guys are also hilarious too...persuading people to hate him, just like lot of idiot people demonstrating everyday in front of Istana Merdeka...... err, have i said idiot ?...:rofl: sorry, but i said they're, not u. Everyone in this forum are all SMART, and EDUCATED PEOPLE....

except ME, OF COURSE... Yeah! but i knoe i still have logic... :D:D:D:D:D:D of course, u have too.. :D:D:D:D:D

again, i respect all of ur comment, thanks a lot for ur comment, it shows our diversity here, and i got a lot from you, and thanks for calling me autistic, or whateva u want, many-many thanks for that.... :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Pak Harto, Pak Harto...udah mati aja masi jadi kontroversi.... :D

Suharto, Que Sera Sera

:nocrook:

E.O.F

.....You guys are truly the product and legacy of Suharto's programmes. And for that, I toast for the rotten animal eaten by maggots 6ft under giribangun.

:lol::lol::lol::cheers::cheers::cheers:

When I see Malaysians jetsetting allover the world, Thais taking over huge chunk of world market for tourism and are getting more organised and sophisticated (soon, they will not need visa to travel around the world just like Singaporean and Malaysian), Vietnamese are getting more sophisticated and developing at breakneck-speed along with China, Indonesians will be domestic-helping most of the middle east, and guess what, even the Phillippines stops sending their citizens to those countries...

Bro, I am recognizing those facts by my very eyes as well :ohno:

Lol @ people who forgive him. The only people who could "forgive" him are the ones who were hurt by him. And where are they? Either dead, paralyzed, in prison, or protesting in front of the hospital.

But now I know karma is bullshit.

At least it's a good ridance.

well i think there's a stove called hell there :|

well i think there's a stove called hell there :|
Nope! This 'stove' is called : Democracy ... :) or Democrazy, perhaps..... :tongue4:

Nope! This 'stove' is called : Democracy ... :) or Democrazy, perhaps..... :tongue4:

ah ok :D:D:cheers::banana::banana::banana:

ah ok :D:D:cheers::banana::banana::banana:
Sip! :okay: :D oh yea, i forgot to tell u guys , that i'm still 17 , and i don't have any political background. My backgrounds are only economy, aviation, and information technology. and i have no intense to disrespect all of u, or etc, i hereby in this forum is just to express myself and to look for friends.. :) and it's nice to have such a different opinions here... :)

Cheers :cheers1:

Sip! :okay: :D oh yea, i forgot to tell u guys , that i'm still 17 , and i don't have any political background. My backgrounds are only economy, aviation, and information technology. and i have no intense to disrespect all of u, or etc, i hereby in this forum is just to express myself and to look for friends.. :) and it's nice to have such a different opinions here... :)

Cheers :cheers1:
Hey so am I !!!! :rock:
Forget Suharto :gaah: and let's go have a drink :cheers1: :drunk: :cheers2:

Hey so am I !!!! :rock:
Forget Suharto :gaah: and let's go have a drink :cheers1: :drunk: :cheers2:
Ahhahaha :hug: let's go to Embassy :drunk: :D

No. Centro or blowfish is better.

No. Centro or blowfish is better.
Sure ?....isn't Giribangun is better ?.. :tongue2: :D where's Centro ? never heard that be4...

di jalan dharmawangasa. i think it was in the basement. normally full of rich idiots, children of corrupt officials, and their golddigging girlfriends, but good atmosphere nonetheless.

Ahhahaha :hug: let's go to Embassy :drunk: :D

wah ceN pengen nih ikutan, tapi sayangnya gw gak boleh minum. gimana kalo ke warkop aja sambil nonton bareng liga inggris :D :D :D

di jalan dharmawangasa. i think it was in the basement. normally full of rich idiots, children of corrupt officials, and their golddigging girlfriends, but good atmosphere nonetheless.

As Centro's enthusiast yourself, which one is YOU? Rich idiots, children of corrupt official, or the golddigging girlfriend??

Considering your psyche, I bet you are [choose as]: The ATMOSPHERE....

Ha ha ha ha this indeed is hillarious.....

^^ :lol:

:lol:

i'm none of the above. just a visitor passing through the capital and looking for hip watering holes. but sure, i like the waroong atmospheres as well. i talked to most people i met during my visits.

except, if they're the decendants of suharto. i refused to be in the same room as them for the next 7 generations.

:lol:

i'm none of the above. just a visitor passing through the capital and looking for hip watering holes. but sure, i like the waroong atmospheres as well. i talked to most people i met during my visits.

except, if they're the decendants of suharto. i refused to be in the same room as them for the next 7 generations.

LOL :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

LMAO!

PSssssh, clubs?!? You mean the center of capitalism, consumerism, and senseless hedonism that corrupts the mind of the youngs? (anarchist mode: on) ;) Hahahaha, you guys are such riots.

We all should hang out at my place, the Bronx of Indonesia: Bekasi.

Bekasi? that's also my place to hangout sometimes.. :D:D:D
but, Bronx of Indonesia???u sure??












uups.. sorry, i didn't read your SIG.. :D :lol:

i say X2 and Venue !!!

^^oops ... what a coincidence :ohno: =NaNdA= and nanda*.... ???:nuts::ohno:::lol:

^^oops ... what a coincidence :ohno: =NaNdA= and nanda*.... ???:nuts::ohno:::lol:
In programming language, C / C++ , *nanda : means a pointer to variable called 'nanda' or so on..soO, that could be

*nanda == =NaNdA=

He he he :nocrook:

In programming language, C / C++ , *nanda : means a pointer to variable called 'nanda' or so on..soO, that could be

*nanda == =NaNdA=

He he he :nocrook:

:nuts: enough with C++....

Besides C++ have you been lectured by Suparto? Or Johan Setiawan?

^^ Who is it ?... Johan Setiawan or Indra Setiawan ? he he he he... :D

CeN, pernah belajar program NetBeans dari Java ga ??

Ga lah, kan aku idiot + autis...coba buka previous page... :tongue2::tongue2: mana bisa orang idiot blajar Java... :D

Ga lah, kan aku idiot + autis...coba buka previous page... :tongue2::tongue2: mana bisa orang idiot blajar Java... :D

ehm..:). AceN, ternyata gak perlu pinter2 amat utk belajar "java"... buktinya penjual jamu gendong di Wonogiri dan Sukoharjo tiap kali ber-transaksi selalu pakai bahasa "java" ...hehehehehe :lol::lol::lol:

^^ :rofl::rofl: i mastered it already : Bahasa Java .... :lol:

Ga lah, kan aku idiot + autis...coba buka previous page... :tongue2::tongue2: mana bisa orang idiot blajar Java... :D

Jgn begitu. Ntar jadi beneran loh. :naughty:

Saya jg wong Jowo, tapi ora iso ngomong Jowo. Piye toh iki. :D

^^
punten mas :D :D :D... - sori OOT

In programming language, C / C++ , *nanda : means a pointer to variable called 'nanda' or so on..soO, that could be

*nanda == =NaNdA=

He he he :nocrook:

^^ :lol:
hey.. who is nanda*????

^^ :lol:
hey.. who is nanda*????

*nanda is a member :)