http://images.chapters.indigo.ca/covers/books/103/1553651030_b.jpg
For those who are interested, I recommend picking up this book. It's written by Lance Berelowitz - a well-known Planner who moved to Canada from London in the 80's and has worked all of the country in the public & private sector.

He makes some brilliant observations and criticisms on Vancouver, touching on many topics including an entire chapter on how Vancouver is to Canada, what Los Angeles is to America.

Here are some excerpts from the book:

“When Vancouverites look over their shoulders at other places that might presage their own future, they do not look at Calgary on the other side of the Rocky Mountains and certainly not even more distant Toronto, which might as well be on another continent. Rather, the view is southward, down the coast to Seattle. Seeking a somewhat broader perspective, they might cast their eyes even farther south to Portland, or San Francisco.”


“Americans speak of Los Angeles as the “Land of Sunshine”, except that in the Canadian context, it is not the prospect of endless sun that Vancouver temps with but rather the lack of “real” winter.

Vancouver has one of the softest, mildest, least extreme climates north of the 49th Parallel. Like Los Angeles is for America, Vancouver is the promise land of its Country.

“Vancouver and Los Angeles are cities of the future: with so little history (both just over 100 years old), they are future-focused to an extent incomparable with almost any other city in North America.”

“The two cities are urban experiments of the future for their respective nations”

“As cities of experimentation, LA & Vancouver have been loci of architectural inventiveness, the preferred homes of architectural exiles……….. It is not surprising therefore that these two cities have produced the most sustained, inventive bodies of custom residential architecture. The single family house has a power here that is unmatched in the more collective, denser models of Midwest and East Coast cities. Vancouver and Los Angeles represent the North American pinnacle of the custom-designed house”

“The disparities of wealth that immigrant cities manifest are on full display in Los Angeles and Vancouver. Both are home to sizable populations of wealthy immigrants and global citizens, as well as economic refugees. On the one hand, the Los Angeles foothill communities of Hollywood, West Hollywood, Beverly Hills, Bel Air, Brentwood and Pacific Palisades find their topographic and economic Vancouver equivalents in Westwood Plateau, British Properties, Hollyburn Heights, Cypress Park Estates, Upper Claufield, and Whytecliff. And on the other hand, the plains of South Central Los Angeles filled with millions of people from Mexico and Central America, has its Vancouver analogue in the flat swaths of suburban Richmond, Delta, and Surrey, where entire communities of Chinese, Southeast Asian, and Indian newcomers struggle with the hard scrabble of life in a foreign land.”

The built urban environments are very similar to visitors from one city to the other: simple stucco-clad or wood sided houses and pastel colours….
Goes on to talk about the widespread “California Bungalow” housing style in Vancouver, the earliest homes being built by blueprints shipped up from San Francisco, the “Los Angeles Dingbat” style 3 storey stucco walk-ups found all throughout Vancouver, the Modernist housing movement – paralleling styles of Southern California.

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“Compare for example the exclusive properties on Point Grey Road, with Malibu’s beachfront homes.”

Point Grey Home:

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Los Angeles represents the mythic beach culture of the United States. This role is played in Canada by Vancouver: it is the only city in the country that can lay claim to even the semblance of such a thing. The beachfront is the locus of public life in both Los Angeles and Vancouver; it is the zone of highest urban intensity.”

“Vancouver’s waterfront walkway system with its myriad strollers, joggers, cyclists and skaters is directly analogous to the beachfront route that takes Southern Californians through Santa Monica, Venice Beach and beyond.”

“Both cities are rimmed by mountains to the north & east, ocean to the west, and flat plains stretching away to the south, terminated by an international border. Thus they have broadly similar topographically driven urban features.”

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That’s just the tip of the ice berg of this book, taken from one chapter “Hollywood North”. It covers many topics but gives a very good analogy of this young city…pick it up Vancouver forumers!

Interesting, but he is wrong on a number of claims. He has a very pro-Vancouver bias vs. other parts of the country. In other words, he sees Vancouver through rose-colored glasses.

Sure Vancouver has mild winters and is a beautiful place, but for economic opportunity, I can make a very long list of other Canadian cities that out class it. LA for decades was the place to go in the US for its economic opportunities. Vancouver doesn't compare in that regard.

Interesting read. Though he's right about the dominance of single family home living in Vancouver... Vancouver's not really considered the King of sprawl of Canada, nor is it considered to be a crazy-sprawly city like LA..

Of course, all this could change if the ALR dissapears, and if highways make it easier for suburbanites to travel...

I haven't read the book, but one obvious difference would be the absence in Vancouver of any significant highway infrastructure - in marked contrast to LA. Of course, these comparisons can never be perfect, so there are probably some good and bad points in the author's arguments.

I do agree, however, that Vancouver probably has more in common with the other west coast cities than other Canadian cities. Remember, before the railway came across Canada, the only way to travel was by steamship up the coast (prospectors from SF on their way to the Yukon) and the like - there would naturally be influences left as a result.

I just looked up a bit of California history - and the Mexicans surrendered Los Angeles and California to the U.S. in 1847. That would explain why San Fransisco seems like a much older city than Los Angeles.
Likewise, the HBC abandoned Fort Vancouver in Vancouver, Washington and moved north of the 49th parallel to Vancouver's present location in 1860. Vancouver was incorporated in 1886.

That first photo you posted freaked me out there because it looks exactly like the building I live in. And I have the penthouse suite on top.

And I wouldnt call Vancouver a dream city either. Its hard to find good work for educated folk like myself.

And I wouldnt call Vancouver a dream city either. Its hard to find good work for educated folk like myself.

Exactly what I was thinking.

This is a bit off-topic, but check out just one company in Waterloo, Research In Motion:

http://www.rim.com/careers/na/index.shtml

Click on "career opportunities" under "Americas". They have 270 high-tech jobs listed and nearly all are in Waterloo. On top of that, check out "Campus recruitment" for 86 more jobs. I have been following RIM for about 3 years and they always have had 180 jobs or more listed!

Sure Vancouver has mild winters and is a beautiful place, but for economic opportunity, I can make a very long list of other Canadian cities that out class it. LA for decades was the place to go in the US for its economic opportunities. Vancouver doesn't compare in that regard.

Yeah and he acknowledges that in a chapter of the book. He goes on about how Vancouver is now focusing on a new economy based on smaller business and cutting edge "green" and technology firms, something different than the traditional economic base of manufacturing etc in other cities.

A lot of the book is critisism, so he is not that biased. He has a well-rounded view of things, having worked all over the country in Planning.

I haven't read the book, but one obvious difference would be the absence in Vancouver of any significant highway infrastructure - in marked contrast to LA. Of course, these comparisons can never be perfect, so there are probably some good and bad points in the author's arguments

Yes he goes on about the lack of freeways too. There were many many many more comparisons that I didnt have time to mention. You really have to read the book to get it all, i'm just spitting out random pieces.

A few other differences.......................LA is home to many large corporations while Vancouver very few. It is a decidedly branch plant city.
Also LA is a huge US city while Vancouver is {as much as Vancouverites would disagree} an also ran.
Toronto and Montreal have the political power, Ottawa is the capitol and Calgary is home to many head offices.
Vancouver is an important Canadian city but not like LA is to the US.
Vancouver is a parocial regional city while both Montreal and especially Toronto are on the world stage.

[IMG]Here are some excerpts from the book:

“When Vancouverites look over their shoulders at other places that might presage their own future, they do not look at Calgary on the other side of the Rocky Mountains and certainly not even more distant Toronto, which might as well be on another continent. Rather, the view is southward, down the coast to Seattle. Seeking a somewhat broader perspective, they might cast their eyes even farther south to Portland, or San Francisco.”
!

Obviously. Its a west coast/east coast thing. Even affects snowbird patterns, west coast cdns fly to cali for the winter, while in the east, people go to florida.

I think its even worse in the US, with the west coast vs. east coast. Even in busineses, there is definately a west coast style, open concept vs the traditional corp style in NYC. The egos are much bigger in the US as well with LA home to the stars/entertainment vs the big urban jungles in the east.

Its dumb to put it in terms of infrastruture. Its a lifestlye attitude thing.

A few other differences.......................LA is home to many large corporations while Vancouver very few. It is a decidedly branch plant city. .

Its not about the bits and pieces, its a general thing.

A Toronto and Montreal have the political power, Ottawa is the capitol and Calgary is home to many head offices.

You are over analyizing. If your into the west coast thing, Vancouver no doubt would be a dream city. For others, I prefer the east coast flavour so NYC/TO are my dream cities.

Last night there was an LA / west coast versus NYC / east coast episode of Fear Factor! The east coast won.

I saw that. The NYC vs LA (firefighters).

You can't really compare the beaches of L.A./SoCal to Vancouver. They are a totally different styles and offer totally different settings. Can you surf in the beaches of Vancouver? Nope. Will you ever risk catching Hepatitis going in the water off of Vancouver? Hardly. The author also says that Vancouver is the only city that has any type of beach culture in Canada. Not true. I'd say Halifax if any city best represents it. Halifax is the only city in Canada home to year round surf competitions (Pro and Amateur) and the whole HRM is littered with white sand beaches. Not to take anything away from Vancouver because I am sure people enjoy the beaches there, but the ocean truly defines how people live here.

Yes, then there are Toronto's beaches, Wasaga beach, Grand Bend, and others in Ontario. I've seen Wasaga Beach with maybe 3-5 times more people than all the beaches around Vancouver added together.

Yes, then there are Toronto's beaches, Wasaga beach, Grand Bend, and others in Ontario. I've seen Wasaga Beach with maybe 3-5 times more people than all the beaches around Vancouver added together.

Yea the author didn't really seem like he looked outside of Vancouver very much.

Yes it is a dream city in many cases(not all the time though), we do have it all here, its a world class city that is on the worlds stage constantly, and recently like no other Canadian city, and it will probably continue that way for awhile, i cant see that changing for awhile. LA is 100 years old only? it must of had some unheard of growth all this time then. I see many similarities, but not a whole lot with Los Angeles.

About the beachs things, no beaches in Canada can come close to rivaling some of the world class beaches found in other countries, but Vancouver and B.C. is probably arguably the closest as your going to get in Canada. The beaches in Vancouver are extremely vibrant when the weather is nice. Vancouver's downtown population is bigger than LA downtown population. Not sure which downtown is bigger by land size?

Sukh, you constantly live in a dream world.

How many freeways does the entire Los Angelas Metro have anyways?

About as many as in Canada.

Sukh, have you ever been to Ontario's beaches? Have you ever been to Ontario?

About as many as in Canada.

Sukh, have you ever been to Ontario's beaches? Have you ever been to Ontario?

Not to diss Ontario or their beaches, because I know for the amount of people and parties they host they can't be beat, but lakes can never compare to oceans.

I like both ocean and lake beaches, each has its advantages. Understand now, I live in Cabo San Lucas for 1/2 the year. Have you ever seen the beaches around Cabo? They are some of the best in NA.

Yes it is a dream city in many cases(not all the time though), we do have it all here, its a world class city that is on the worlds stage constantly, and recently like no other Canadian city, and it will probably continue that way for awhile, i cant see that changing for awhile. LA is 100 years old only? it must of had some unheard of growth all this time then. I see many similarities, but not a whole lot with Los Angeles.

About the beachs things, no beaches in Canada can come close to rivaling some of the world class beaches found in other countries, but Vancouver and B.C. is probably arguably the closest as your going to get in Canada. The beaches in Vancouver are extremely vibrant when the weather is nice. Vancouver's downtown population is bigger than LA downtown population. Not sure which downtown is bigger by land size?


go to a few beaches on some of the great lakes and you will never want to walk on the mixed crap in van...ive been on both many many times and van beaches are nice to walk along and sit on a blanket, but ontario beaches (lake huron for me) are far far superior.

go to a few beaches on some of the great lakes and you will never want to walk on the mixed crap in van...ive been on both many many times and van beaches are nice to walk along and sit on a blanket, but ontario beaches (lake huron for me) are far far superior.

That's what I say, but do you think that anyone from Van. will believe us?

I like both ocean and lake beaches, each has its advantages. Understand now, I live in Cabo San Lucas for 1/2 the year. Have you ever seen the beaches around Cabo? They are some of the best in NA.

Si amigo ya entiendo. Yo he vivido en Mexico y conozco muchas playas alla. Pero mi prefiero es la mer porque me gusta surfiar y no es posible en lagos. The beaches that I surf on are definetley not welcoming to laying out and suntanning on. There are heaps of beaches here that you can do that on, but the best surfing beaches are actually points and reefs that are full of massive boulders and the like. Not very welcoming to sunbathers or partyers like the Great Lakes.

About as many as in Canada.

Sukh, have you ever been to Ontario's beaches? Have you ever been to Ontario?


I know there is great beaches there as well, hence why i said arguably.

Ok Westcoast604 if you say it is a good book I will pick it up I always like reading a good book! Last two good books I have read are Crime and Punishment by Dovskevsky and On the road by Jack Keroac

ROCH5220

I don't think I was generalising at all between Vancouver and LA.
Don't get me wrong, Vancouver has stunning scenery and the most incredible parks system in the world. That said, it simpy isn't what LA is to tthe US as it is to Canada.
Relativly is has little economic or political influence on the national scene.
When you consider that greater areas have 7-8% of their countries population there is no doubt that LA plays a FAR more important role in the Us than Vancouver to Canada.

You can't really compare the beaches of L.A./SoCal to Vancouver. They are a totally different styles and offer totally different settings. Can you surf in the beaches of Vancouver? Nope. Will you ever risk catching Hepatitis going in the water off of Vancouver? Hardly. The author also says that Vancouver is the only city that has any type of beach culture in Canada. Not true. I'd say Halifax if any city best represents it. Halifax is the only city in Canada home to year round surf competitions (Pro and Amateur) and the whole HRM is littered with white sand beaches. Not to take anything away from Vancouver because I am sure people enjoy the beaches there, but the ocean truly defines how people live here.


He's not comparing the physical simularities of the beaches. Obviously the beaches are better in SoCal (however not as good of views from them IMO). He is comparing the beach CULTURE of the two cities which is very similar. I don't see a big beach culture in Halifax, there are no beaches like Vancouver has downtown, or all along the waterfront of the urban area. Vancouver's height of public activity revolves around the beaches. It's where everyone goes to to be seen and take the place of public squares in the city. They are a vibrant epicentre of Vancouver, ironically at its edges, much similar to SoCal.



"The beachfront is the locus of public life in both Los Angeles and Vancouver; it is the zone of highest urban intensity. To the extent that more traditional Eurocentric public spaces are suspiciously absent in both cities"

"Los Angeles and Vancouver belong to the small and exclusive group of large cities that face the ocean sunset. Their location on the West Coast overlooking the Pacific Ocean and their particular geographies orient them towards the west, where each night the sun drops into the sea. This might seem like a superficial fact, but there are very few large cities (Perth, Cape Town, and Valparaiso come to mind) that share this sense of being at the edge of the world, nightly witness to the end of the day, in such a literal sense that these two cities do."


By the way you CAN surf in Vancouver. I've seen it done on very windy days off the shores of West Van. I used to have a picture out of the "Province" newspaper of a guy surfing in English Bay with the headline "Surf's Up in West Van". Of course this is rare, but still neat!



SSI Guy, you are picking it apart too much. This is not meant as an apples to apples comparison. Its a generalization of culture, built form, geography, and history.

White Rock Panorama. This looks like it could be taken in Southern California, housing styles and view. If you dont want to focus on culture, even the physical aspects are very similar in both cities. By the way that is Washington State just across the water there.

Scroll...

http://www.cliffandgary.com/15478_Columbia_Avenue/Pictures/OceanView.jpg

double post

That first photo you posted freaked me out there because it looks exactly like the building I live in. And I have the penthouse suite on top.

And I wouldnt call Vancouver a dream city either. Its hard to find good work for educated folk like myself.


By the title of the book you would think that it goes on and on about how great and wonderful Vancouver is, this is not so. I have read most of the book and it is very critical of the city.It makes good observations of both good and bad about the city.For example the good: Vancouver's edges (waterfront) are the focus of vibrant activity(in good weather). The Bad: too many of the parks are focused mainly on passive enjoyment of the view.

But I think what the author really means by "dream city" is that because of Vancouver's youth it is still creating it's own future in ways that older cities cannot. In the author's own words "vancouver marches to the beat of it's own drums"

Christ, it's not as though you swim the entire pacific. If you were plopped on an ocean beach, and then on a lake beach - would you really be able to tell the difference? It's not as though you can look across lake Ontario and see NYC or even NY state. You can't look to the east or west and say, "Oh, I can see Ajax or Hamilton (Ahaha, but standing on a certain tall hill in St. Catherines at night, you can see the lights of downtown Toronto). Certainly though, the scenery in Vancouver IS MUCH better.

Ok Westcoast604 if you say it is a good book I will pick it up I always like reading a good book! Last two good books I have read are Crime and Punishment by Dovskevsky and On the road by Jack Keroac Dostoevsky.
Kerouac.
I guess you read all of those books except for their covers.

The thing about Vancouver is that in the summer they are very busy but there is no one in the water......its just to damn cold unlike the lakes in Ontario or the BC interior.

Vancouver is a wonderful outdoor city but the city's cultural and urban imenities has a lot to be desired unlike Tor/Mon.........depends on what you like.

The thing about Vancouver is that in the summer they are very busy but there is no one in the water......


Scroll ----------->

http://img216.echo.cx/img216/8741/161793354e50c90769o5nl.jpg

Seems to be a lot of people in the water at kits...


Best pic ever!

http://img207.echo.cx/img207/3506/1387582797b5979b7cb6qw.jpg


The water temps in English Bay in the summer are quite on par with that of California, you can find warm pockets, and once your in its quite comfortable. The open Georgia Strait is a bit colder, as is the Pacific off the West Coast of Van Island, but English Bay is nicely sheltered and a bit warmer. Its really not all that bad on hot summer days.

To compare Vancouver to LA is just foolish.

Strangely enough I have just come back from a holiday to LA and Vancouver (with a cheeky stop in Seattle in between).

All I will say here is that Vancouver is the best city that I have ever been to.

I have never felt to so at home, relaxed, safe and happy to be in a city in my life, and, at the risk of sounding arrogant, I have been to a lot of cities, including Toronto.

Vancouver is a little piece of heaven that I am determinded to go back to again soon, such is the impact the city has made on me.

Who cares if it doesnt have huge roads or loads of big corporation headquarters!! The city is all the better for it, IMO.


Vancouver is a terrific city and rightly deserves its reputation of being one of the most beatiful cities in the world.

To compare Vancouver to LA is just foolish.


Well, perhaps your being foolish and havent really researched the subject. The history of how each became cities are eerily similar, with common occurances at relativley the same time. Geographies are almost like twins, both regional and province/state, building styles and architecture...as a lot of Vancouvers residential areas are california influenced...dating back to the early 1900's when housing blueprints were sent up from San Francisco. Also they both serve the same image to their respective countries, as a paradise at the end of the road, or cities where the epicentre of the public realm is at its edges...the beach.

Foolish? Not really if you look into it, its remarkable how much is similar. But seeing as its all the same coast, its to be expected right.

Westcoast> I'm not denying there are **broad** similarities between LA and Van. But with greatest respect, I think you're may be try too hard to put the pieces together to support your point.

I've lived in both cities, and while the history of how each became cities might be similar, you have a tremendous historical Spanish influence in SoCal -- something you don't see in Van. In contrast, it appears to me that Van was influenced more by being part of a British colony -- along with some strong Asian influence.

Oh, and Malibu and the PCH aside, I'd take Van over LA anyday as a place to live.

Well, perhaps your being foolish and havent really researched the subject. The history of how each became cities are eerily similar, with common occurances at relativley the same time. Geographies are almost like twins, both regional and province/state, building styles and architecture...as a lot of Vancouvers residential areas are california influenced...dating back to the early 1900's when housing blueprints were sent up from San Francisco. Also they both serve the same image to their respective countries, as a paradise at the end of the road, or cities where the epicentre of the public realm is at its edges...the beach.

Foolish? Not really if you look into it, its remarkable how much is similar. But seeing as its all the same coast, its to be expected right.
No matter how many similarities you try and draw between the 2 cities, they just cant change the fact that, despite being founded in roughly the same era, Van and LA are like chalk and cheese. It doesnt matter if both cities have beaches, or if residential vancouver was influenced by LA and San Fran, the fundemental basicsof what makes both cities special are so completely different, not to mention the quirks and charms of each city.

I love both cities, but I stand by the fact that they are not in any way alike when you look at it from a slightly less intense, more realistic view.

Hollywood North.

Gah, pshhh - more like, hollywood northwest.

Few call TO Hollywood North, it's all Vancouver.

People in film and television refer to Vancouver as Hollywood North. Wikipedia or Google Hollywood North and you will get Vancouver, iv never heard the term Hollywood Northwest.

in the words of asim "kahhh pshhh pfttt - hollywood northwest"

hmm..isn't hollywood just that...pretty hollywoodish? glam? jazz? Funny how we have all the 5 star hotels and Toronto has none!

Toronto = Many Canadian films and independant productions.

Vancouver = More US sitcoms and blockbuster movies.

Toronto has its share of blockbuster movies, but there is definatly more of that type of filiming going on in Vancouver. Vancouver is also more popular with celebrities...many having second homes here etc.

Toronto is the "Hollywood" of Canadian content...E-Talk daily lol, Much, Canadian Idol etc. And i'm not jelous of that in anyway...you can have that crap!

But unlike Vancouver, Toronto has its own cultural scene. Vancouver's nightlife is beyond bland, very few music clubs and scene, very little theatre while Toronto's is the third largest in the English speaking world.
Toronto is far more cosmopolitan. Much more vibrant with museums, shopping, galleries, urbanity, urban neighbourhoods, transit, street scenes and festivals that Vancouver could only dream of. They don't call it "no fun city " for nothing.
Vancouver has a spectacular scenery and it is wonderful for the outdoor but the city has nothing to offer an true urbanite. Its a parochial city. Toronto is Downtown Canada, like it or not.
By the way for the guy from Glasgow............... Im glad you were impressed with Vancouver, it does have a lot going for it but safety isn't one of them.
Vancouver has a crime/murder rate far above the national average. In fact all of Canada's western cities do, with the notable exception of Calgary.

Toronto has Canada's lowest crime rate.

Toronto is also home to one of the worlds top 5 film festivals(many say 2nd only to Cannes) doesnt get much more Hollywood glam than that. For instance last year Ray (Jamie Foxx) was premeired in Toronto and it was arguably the top movie of 2004.

So, Toronto has a film festival - Cannes isn't a movie maker city though. I'll just point that out before somebody else does. But yes, Vancouver is probably the US choice for filming. It's so generic and the lack of signifigant urban landmarks makes it harder to identify (unless it's like that steam clock, that building white tent that jetties out towards the water, or the gelato guy with 208 flavours).

It's okay though Dr.Joe - the film makers like lower Bay station.

You Torontonians always say "oh look the Vancouverites are just jealous and feel they have to stick up for themselves" when isn't that what you're doing right now? It's been pointed out that Vancouver is Hollywood North and more movies are filmed here and you guys flip out and start talking about things that have nothing to do with being Hollywood North.

I've already agreed on that - I even backed it. Oh, you were referring to what's his face.

I dont like the hollywood north "saying", lets just call it Canada's largest, and North America's third largest film, tv production center.

Vancouver is also more popular with celebrities...many having second homes here etc.

So many movies are shot up here, but also another good reason they buy houses up here because there is so much to do in Vancouver, or other parts of Southern B.C. The only other city in Canada that could do the same is probably Montreal.

AHA-AHA-AHAHAHAHAHAHA, oh wow, probably Montreal - aheeheeheehee. I'm sure they have homes in Vancouver for the view and outdoor activities - but Montreal, hmm - doesn't have that many. Anyways - the two cities are incomparable, Montreal has a nightlife and the city isn't as bland. I've also thought of some other things, the city lacks Montreal's richer and more diverse architecture, which makes the 'feel' of both cities entirely different. Montreal also has some notable events: Just for Laughs, the Montreal Festival International du Jazz, and the Canadian Grande Prix. And of course the biggest difference being Montreal is French, and has architectural landmarks (both new and historic) and a much longer history.

What are people referring to when they say Vancouver is bland? I've never quite understood that. Anyway, I'm sure it's something we can work on.

When your own city council sets up a committee to change the fact that you are known locally and nationally as "no fun city" it should be self-explanatory.

Tell me. I'm a bit slow. :cheers:

I've never experienced this "no fun" thing.

The "no fun city" image that Vancouver has is a bit of a myth. I always have alot of fun in Vancouver, more so than other cities iv been to like Seattle. The reason Vancouver is has that image is because the city doesn't put on alot of events, that is starting to change but they could have done more like fireworks on July 1st.

^^^^^^Vancouver is the only major city in Canada not to have CanadaDay fireworks.......you have to go to Surrey.
It is good that many of the cancedlled ferstivals and streetfairs are being brought back thanks to mayor Campbell. The city is finally beginning to take the carrot out of its ass.
The large turnouts at the resusitated Greekdays on Broadway, Seafest at EnglishBay, and Italian Festival along Commercial shows how eager Vancouverites were to enjoy their city but had no where to do it except sit at a Starbucks all day, everyday.
They FINALLY have a SantaClaus Parade and the Jazz fest is finally really worth going to.
This is what helps make a city more than just a collection of houses. If Vancouver continues this and adds more free festivals that cater to different things then the city will be nothing but fun and vibrant.
It has a ways to go especially in the downtown core/Granville but its getting there and finally is turning around. Free street performers, festivals, open streets, downtown streetbands, parades, late night shopping {8pm doe NOT qualify}.

She is not there yet but the change in the last 2 years is finally seeing the results and shows Vancouverites don't just want to walk the Seawall everyday. Even the Globe&Mail recently had an article on how Vancouver is finally getting its groove back.

It will take more hardwork and more and more events and urban flair to bring the city to where she should be but I must confessd, she's finally getting the idea. Vancouverites have been showing by the huge turnouts that they like it and have been hoping for this day.
For funding, obviously the gov't have to do a large part but some cities also have just a kinda "money jar" with a friendly {non-security} type person giving event information where you can drop off a dollar if you want to make sure the event is bigger and better next year. They just use 4 foot high jars that people can toss in their change yet no one can run away with and if you get huge turnouts the amount you can get can be huge.
It also helps guarantee that the events will be free which is vital.
People will support and patronise events.

Give yourself a pat on the back Toronto, you have more culture, theatre, and a better nightlife than Vancouver. Your also in a different population category so that is to be expected. Your arguments just look pathetic because you can't expect a city of 2 million to have the same amenities as one of 5 million.

I don't understand this "bland" and "no-fun" image either... Vancouver is anything but bland, its quite the opposite...very vibrant with lots to do and see. Its no less fun than the next city, infact it's probably more fun than say Calgary, or Saskatoon, or Winnipeg, or Toronto, or anywhere else in Canada.

I guess it just comes down to what you define as fun. If you like having a ski-resorts in your backyard such as those in North and West Van, so when you get home from work you can have a bite to eat, head up the mountain and do a few runs and be home in no time, then Vancouver is the place to be. Another bonus of that is when you come down off the mountain in January your grass is the most vibrant green colour you've ever seen and your not freezing your ass off.

Clubs, theres countless clubs, and people seem to be enjoying them just fine! Look at posters on street poles, they are covered in ads for DJ's and Bands comming to town. Take your pick. There is a scene for everyone, and it's very proportionate to the size of our city, probably even better when compared to American cities of the same population.

Hollywood North we are. Like the hills of West Van, full of mansions with palms in their yards on the edge of the Pacific....it certainly seems a lot more like Hollywood than Toronto.

US Blockbusters being shot all over the city at any given time

5 star hotels

Robson Street, South False Creek Granville, and 4th Ave which are probably the closest Canada comes to having L.A. style high end shopping street malls. Where else in Canada can you find an Armani Exchange for example?

Vancouver is quite plain and simple a bit better than the rest of Canada, it's more high end, less hick Canadian, and is a bit further ahead on trends comming up from California.

I think you guys back east need to come take a walk around some of the streets I mentioned here, take a little tour through the hills of West Van, and take a stroll through Yaletown and the Opus hotel before you say Van isn't Hollywood North. Theres certainly more resemblence here than in Toronto.

Stick to a comparision your worthy of...like Chicago or some other American "lake city" thats flat and filled with endless brick homes and commie blocks.

^^^^^^Vancouver is the only major city in Canada not to have CanadaDay fireworks.......you have to go to Surrey. It's funny you mention fireworks. I was on Galiano that night looking across towards Salt Spring and could see some going off. How were they? :lol: :) Whatever. I think Vancouver used to have them on Canada Day, but they sucked ass. If you want to see great fireworks, the Symphony of Fire is the event to be at.

ssiguy2, thanks for the other info. I think our mayor has done some work in those areas. You'd think Vancouver will become even more livable - being more fun and all.

There actually were fireworks in Vancouver just not at Canada Place. West Van had fireworks in English Bay which would have been visible from most of the city. Vancouver doesn't stop when you cross the inlet.

Vancouver is still asmall town as cities go.
I met two couples from back East. One from Montreal and the other from Toronto.
The guy from Montreal summed it up best. He said Vancouver was like and EasterEgg. Beautiful on the ouside but nothing in the middle.
It is a wonderful outdoor city {which don't get me wrong, is great} but is a decidedly bland and uninteresting city itself.
You can only walk that seawall so many times.
Like I said thou, it has finally turned the corner.
The fact that many of these festivals are just coming back but the attendance has been huge backs up what I've said for a long time. Vancouverites wanted more than just a walk along a park to enjoy their city but had no where to go and nothing to do. It proves the whole time that they wanted more but it just wasn't there.
Downtown is next. Free outdoor concerts, all time, everday. Shopping that ends at midnight, not 8pm. Festivals downtown litterally just for the hell of it.
Thanks to mayor Campbell the city has finally come back to a degree. There's work that still has to be done before it truly offers everything to everybody which a vibrant city does but its getting there.
Most importantly, the city gov't itself is also finally realising that there is more to a city than a great park system. They also to ensure these events are free to offer everyone options.

Give yourself a pat on the back Toronto, you have more culture, theatre, and a better nightlife than Vancouver. Your also in a different population category so that is to be expected. Your arguments just look pathetic because you can't expect a city of 2 million to have the same amenities as one of 5 million.

I don't understand this "bland" and "no-fun" image either... Vancouver is anything but bland, its quite the opposite...very vibrant with lots to do and see. Its no less fun than the next city, infact it's probably more fun than say Calgary, or Saskatoon, or Winnipeg, or Toronto, or anywhere else in Canada.

I guess it just comes down to what you define as fun. If you like having a ski-resorts in your backyard such as those in North and West Van, so when you get home from work you can have a bite to eat, head up the mountain and do a few runs and be home in no time, then Vancouver is the place to be. Another bonus of that is when you come down off the mountain in January your grass is the most vibrant green colour you've ever seen and your not freezing your ass off.

Clubs, theres countless clubs, and people seem to be enjoying them just fine! Look at posters on street poles, they are covered in ads for DJ's and Bands comming to town. Take your pick. There is a scene for everyone, and it's very proportionate to the size of our city, probably even better when compared to American cities of the same population.

Hollywood North we are. Like the hills of West Van, full of mansions with palms in their yards on the edge of the Pacific....it certainly seems a lot more like Hollywood than Toronto.

US Blockbusters being shot all over the city at any given time

5 star hotels

Robson Street, South False Creek Granville, and 4th Ave which are probably the closest Canada comes to having L.A. style high end shopping street malls. Where else in Canada can you find an Armani Exchange for example?

Vancouver is quite plain and simple a bit better than the rest of Canada, it's more high end, less hick Canadian, and is a bit further ahead on trends comming up from California.

I think you guys back east need to come take a walk around some of the streets I mentioned here, take a little tour through the hills of West Van, and take a stroll through Yaletown and the Opus hotel before you say Van isn't Hollywood North. Theres certainly more resemblence here than in Toronto.

Stick to a comparision your worthy of...like Chicago or some other American "lake city" thats flat and filled with endless brick homes and commie blocks.

Let's not equate T.O. to carnivorous troglodytes: compared to them, "the Big Igloo" is a utopia.

Westcoast what is with your sad obession of California??? Its seems with you anything California equals good. All I got out of your endless hyped up post is that Vancouver is a poor mans LA.

I don't get why they won't move the Canada Day fireworks elsewhere instead of cancelling them flat out. Surely, False Creek and English Bay can be the sites of the fireworks displays.

lol - the stores close at 8pm?!

I'm sure you are just jealous Addison that you cannot see Ajax's waterfront.

Ahaha, I've regained my confidence in Toronto, thank you Vancouver people. Catch you on the flipside - or other thread. :D

lol - the stores close at 8pm?!


9 to my knowledge, mind you, I haven't been back to Vancouver in a couple years....

Shopping that ends at midnight, not 8pm.


No city in Canada offers decent midnight shopping :(. There's nothing here that could even come close to the vibrancy of those in Asia and Europe.

Toronto has a bigger nightclub scene though (& larger Entertainment District). It's expected of course, since the GTA has ~3 times more people than the Lower Mainland.

Vancouver is still asmall town as cities go.
I met two couples from back East. One from Montreal and the other from Toronto.
The guy from Montreal summed it up best. He said Vancouver was like and EasterEgg. Beautiful on the ouside but nothing in the middle.
It is a wonderful outdoor city {which don't get me wrong, is great} but is a decidedly bland and uninteresting city itself.
You can only walk that seawall so many times.
Like I said thou, it has finally turned the corner.
The fact that many of these festivals are just coming back but the attendance has been huge backs up what I've said for a long time. Vancouverites wanted more than just a walk along a park to enjoy their city but had no where to go and nothing to do. It proves the whole time that they wanted more but it just wasn't there.
Downtown is next. Free outdoor concerts, all time, everday. Shopping that ends at midnight, not 8pm. Festivals downtown litterally just for the hell of it.
Thanks to mayor Campbell the city has finally come back to a degree. There's work that still has to be done before it truly offers everything to everybody which a vibrant city does but its getting there.
Most importantly, the city gov't itself is also finally realising that there is more to a city than a great park system. They also to ensure these events are free to offer everyone options.

Dont kid yourself Toronto is a small city on a world wide scale, i know residents of Toronto dont like hearing that, but thats just how it is. I have been to New York, Chicago, San Fransisco, etc... The reaction and comments i have gotten from people and my relatives who live in the states is that it is a regular city, bland. Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver all big fishes in small ponds. I am currently residing on Vancouver island. As for nightlife, theres is quantity, but not quality. A good change would be extending the bar/pub close times longer, you will never be a true party town until that happends. If you want a city that is a total package in Canada i would say Montreal or Vancouver.

Westcoast what is with your sad obession of California??? Its seems with you anything California equals good. All I got out of your endless hyped up post is that Vancouver is a poor mans LA.

I think WestCoast echoes the sentiment of many Vancouverites... We prefer the West Coast lifestyle, and look to SF, Seattle, LA ,SD & Portland for inspiration, instead of say Toronto or any East Coast City. The many references to Californians/PNW & their urban lifestyle reflects the reality of regionalism.

Ahaha, I've regained my confidence in Toronto, thank you Vancouver people. Catch you on the flipside - or other thread. :D

:hahaha: at the fact that you had to belittle your smaller (and younger) sister city just to re-gain confidence in the "Centre of the Universe", lol. Wouldn't it be more logical to compare TO to a city its own size, ;) ?

I smell desperation.

AHA-AHA-AHAHAHAHAHAHA, oh wow, probably Montreal - aheeheeheehee. I'm sure they have homes in Vancouver for the view and outdoor activities - but Montreal, hmm - doesn't have that many. Anyways - the two cities are incomparable, Montreal has a nightlife and the city isn't as bland. I've also thought of some other things, the city lacks Montreal's richer and more diverse architecture, which makes the 'feel' of both cities entirely different. Montreal also has some notable events: Just for Laughs, the Montreal Festival International du Jazz, and the Canadian Grande Prix. And of course the biggest difference being Montreal is French, and has architectural landmarks (both new and historic) and a much longer history.


LOL! Well your right about the homes, views, outdoor activities, there is no comparison. Montreals nice, but average compared to Vancouver. Not to mention Vancouver has much bigger tourism industry, more diverse, light years ahead on the hotels, much more important international airport, Montreals is just a small airport, light years ahead on the waterfront, beaches, park system. As for street life they are about the same, Vancouver maybe ahead a little more... much larger downtown population, almost 100 000 people in a relatively small area= very dense which gives Vancouver more of a energetic and pulsating feel. Vancouver has some notebale events as well Vancouver international jazz festival which is in the highest tier along with Montreal and other cities, IIHF world junior hockey championships. etc Montreal has some great buildings, but can you honestly name one that stands out as a landmark to the "average person"? But hey, thanks for coming out.

the stores close at 8pm?!

Haha, yeah right, i know your new to the forums, but dont drink the cool aid from misinformed people such as SSGUY. You should see other things he says. Most stores are open past 11, some until 3 am, the earliest some close are ten, but are a very select few.

The reason Vancouver is has that image is because the city doesn't put on alot of events

Not true at all, some more falacies. There are many festivals, maybe too many but just to name the large ones. The Celebration of lights festival, Walk with dragon festival, International jazz festival, Sea festival, Dragon boat festival, First night new years eve outdoor festival etc etc etc. There are so many more. There is some sort of festival going on every week it seems. Those ones listed are either the largest or in the top 5 in North America and a couple worldwide. Downtown as most people know is one of the best planned urban centers.

Interesting thread to read. I haven't been to Toronto yet, but it seems it is a city with low self-esteem, if the posts from people from Toronto are anything to go by. I have been to Vancouver and I like the city. It is a vibrant city and one of the places people like to go when they go to Canada on holidays. I haven't heard anyone wanting to go to Toronto for that matter. It is seen as being very dull, just your ordinary north-american urban sprawl, lots of people, but no character.

I guess the same can be said for LA, people going to California want to see San Fransisco and not LA. If they do go to LA they find the city dull and lifeless.

Westcoast what is with your sad obession of California??? Its seems with you anything California equals good. All I got out of your endless hyped up post is that Vancouver is a poor mans LA.

Sad Obsession?? Maybe you havent been following the thread, but the conversation was on the "Hollywood North" of Canada. Hollywood being in California, lead me to make comparisons on how there is a stronger Californian atmosphere on the West Coast of Canada than on the Great Lakes...which is of course only part of the argument towards what defines "Hollywood North" however I feel it's a significant point.

I like that "Vancouver is a poor mans LA" line...it's kinda true, but what does that say for the rest of Canada...

Canada is a poor mans America

You can only walk that seawall so many times. Vancouver also has a lot of great peeler bars. You just need to look a little deeper.

Compared to Tor/Mon Vancouver is beautiful but decidedly uncultured and sedate.
Hollywood North, isn't culture just a studio.

They say L.A. is uncultured too..it must be a West Coast thing...being the last part of the world to be settled, all created within the last 125 years. But I think there is a culture here, it's a different atmosphere than back east, or south, every place has its own way, and that is it's culture.

From the looks of it you don't get to Vancouver very often. Maybe if you did you would know theres more to do than walk the seawall...something I do very seldom yet have a very busy and vibrant life living here.

Compared to Tor/Mon Vancouver is beautiful but decidedly uncultured and sedate.
Hollywood North, isn't culture just a studio.

You always manage to prove yourself retarded with your posts.One after the other they just keep on coming!

Compared to Tor/Mon Vancouver is beautiful but decidedly uncultured and sedate.
Hollywood North, isn't culture just a studio.

I'm kinda agreeing with Vanman - elaborate on what you mean by "uncultured"? I think to often people throw out the word cultured, and they really have no reference to its actual meaning...

Vancouver has as much culture as TO or Montreal - or any number of regions in Canada - just different.

Vancouver has plenty of culture, it comes with any big city largely made up of immigrants.Vancouver has a huge population of Chinese and east Indians as well as many smaller groups of eastern Europeans, west Africans, Phillipinos, and South Americans. Would you really think that these people leave all their customs and traditions at home.

ssiguy2, what is your problem with southwest BC? You often come out swinging when discussions of this nature arise. Unless you disclose your bias everything you have to say should be taken with some rather large grains of salt.

C'mon buddy, you make this area seem like a nondescript town that isn't worth the land its built on. We both know this city, like any city for that matter, has its pluses and minuses but do you really have to endlessly pluck the feathers? No matter how pretty a bird, when its plucked it looks bunk. Wouldn't you agree?

Vancouver has plenty of culture, it comes with any big city largely made up of immigrants.Vancouver has a huge population of Chinese and east Indians as well as many smaller groups of eastern Europeans, west Africans, Phillipinos, and South Americans. Would you really think that these people leave all their customs and traditions at home.

Vanman - there's that too...but all too often we North Americans simply think "culture" as other country's influence, and we overlook our own. Canada definitely has its own - and there are flavours of it it the various areas across Canada. Vancouver has a unique Northwest/West coast culture that is obvious in some arts, foods, pastimes, lifestyles, etc. The aboriginal roots of the area are sometimes overlooked as well.

The Chinese, European, Indian, and others are not unique to just the three large cities in Canada. The multicultural blending may help to create some of Canada's unique cultural identity, but Vancouver's own culture - as other regions/cities of Canada - is much deeper than that.

Compared to Tor/Mon Vancouver is beautiful but decidedly uncultured and sedate.
Hollywood North, isn't culture just a studio.

That is pretty offensive. So because Vancouver's culture is more Asian than European makes it uncultured and sedate? Vancouver has a very cosmopolitan culture.

ssiguy2, what is your problem with southwest BC? You often come out swinging when discussions of this nature arise. Unless you disclose your bias everything you have to say should be taken with some rather large grains of salt.


My question is, WHY DO YOU LIVE HERE? Go back to Ontario where you belong.

The truth is always in the pudding! ssiguy2 lives here because he loves it! Plus his inlaws pay for everything!

Damn man I agree with you in the New West thread then you leave when I post this! I think I know you better then you know yourself! :okay:

The truth is always in the pudding! ssiguy2 lives here because he loves it! Plus his inlaws pay for everything!

I just figure it's because the bud is cheapest out there on SaltSpring. Afterall homegrown is free minus the hydroponics and seeds, right?

I've stayed out of this argument because it has no point. Another reason I feel the City Vs. City section is a complate waste of bandwidth. I feel that every city has it's positives and negatives and when I see them posted in picture format I comment accordingly. I strongly feel that Vancouver has more positives than negatives and thats why I live here, quite happily. As for the rest of the country, kudos to you for whatever you think makes your hometowns livable.

Maybe I can diffuse this situation with a stupid comment. Hey, I saw the dream city book and it had maps in it.

Point Grey Home:

http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/529/5293picture_035.jpg



HOLY SHIT THATS MY OLD NEIGHBOUR!!

where did ssiguy2 go , I have nothing against him , maybe he just really like living in BC , and in that case maybe he should just say that . But hey to each his won . But I love this place and Vancouver is not a poor mans LA . It's a rich mans Sydney ( cause its more expensive in Van then there ) and just as nice

my favourite Canadian city, If I ever immigrate to Canada I would love to settle in Vancouver cose its diversity close proximity to USA and Seattle (my favourite US city) and just whole feel of the city..