It seems that we agree that Paris, NYC, Tokyo, and London Top 4 cities. Now let's talk about Top 10: 5th~10th. My candidates are:

East Asia: Seoul, Shanghai, Beijing, Shenzhen, Osaka, Nagoya, Hongkong, Yokohama

South Asia: Singapore, Jakarta, Bangkok, Kuala Lumpur, Manila, Delhi, Mumbai

Middle East: Riyadh, Cairo

Europe: Madrid, Istanbul, Moscow, Berlin, Rome, Saint Petersburg, Athens

Oceania: Sydney, Melbourne

North America: Los Angeles, Chicago, Toronto

Middle & South America: Mexico City, Sao Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, Buenos Aires

HK doesn't belong with the other four. HK isn't a first tier business center and it has little standing as a cultural center.

HK doesn't belong with the other four. HK isn't a first tier business center and it has little standing as a cultural center.

Alright, I edited it. Now, HK is one of the candidates from E. Asia.

5. LA
6. Chicago
7. Sydney
8. Toronto
9. Shanghai
10. Bejing

Why Athens? with all respect

Why Athens? with all respect

The list is just my own opinion. I don't want the discusssion to be limited by my list at all; you can add & remove cities to the list as much as you want.

5. LA
6. Chicago
7. Sydney
8. Toronto
9. Shanghai
10. Bejing

Wouldn't it be too much if HK is out while Toronto, Sydney, Shanghai, and Beijing are in. Could you support your idea?

Did you not forget africa in your list?

Did you not forget africa in your list?

You can add African cities if you want, but I don't know anything about African cities.

5. LA
6. Chicago
7. Sydney
8. Toronto
9. Shanghai
10. Bejing

haha very funny
sydney ahead of Toronto...thats funny to lol

i like these kinds of topics ;)

05. Hong Kong
06. Toronto
07. Sydney
08. Berlin
09. Rome
10. Madrid

Hong Kong
Toronto
LA
Sydney
Shanghai
Seoul

5) Hong Kong
6) Toronto
7) Sydney
8) Singapore
9) Rome
10) Berlin

Now you should list the population of these cities

Toronto, Sydney, Rome Berlin Madrid are overrated.

IMO

1. Tokyo
2. NYC
3. London
4. Paris
5. HK
6. Chicago
7. Singapore
8. Toronto
9. Seoul
10. Frankfurt

by what criteria...impressiveness??

1.NYC
2.Tokyo
3.Seoul
4.Shanghai
5. Chicago
6. Hong Kong
7. London
9. Paris
10.LA


By power

1. New York
2. Washington
3. Tokyo
4. Beijing
5. Delhi
6. London
7. Rome
8. Paris
9. Geneva
10. Brasilia

and outside of Brasilia, Rome, and Delhi, been to them all

by what criteria...

What criteria... hmmm... I would say, sizes in economy and population, buildings, city layout, landscape, culture, transportation, standard of living, telecommunication, and tourism etc. I don't think political power is something to be discussed here.

Rockford, how is Delhi more powerful than London?

It's the capital of a booming country of one bilion people.

Every day that passes it is getting more and more important. London has done an impressive job (better than any other in Europe IMO) of rolling with the changes. And London, luckily will benefit from India's rise more than most.

Isn't it true that India's middle class is now larger than the entire population of the U.S.?

By power

1. New York
2. Washington
3. Tokyo
4. Beijing
5. Delhi
6. London
7. Rome
8. Paris
9. Geneva
10. Brasilia

and outside of Brasilia, Rome, and Delhi, been to them all

Yeah, Rome and Delhi are far more powerful than Paris... :sleepy:
Comme on dit chez moi : "T'es sacrément grave..."

Some Info on the Cities.

Hongkong

Official Name: Hongkong Special Administrative Region

Area: 1,101㎢

Population: app. 6.8 mil

GDP/capita (nominal): 23,600 USD (2003)

Districts: Central & Western, Eastern, Islands, Kowloon City, Kwai Tsing, North, Sai Kung, Sham Shui Po, Sha Tin, Southern, Tai Po, Tsuen Wan, Wan Chai, Wong Tai Sin, Yau Tsim Mong, Yuen Long

Metropolitan Area: None


Seoul

Official Name: Seoul Metropolitan City

Area: 605.52㎢

Popluation: app. 10.3 mil

GRDP/head (nominal): app. 14,700 USD (2003, Seoul only)

Wards: Dobong, Dongdaemun, Dongjak, Eunpyeong, Gangbuk, Gangdong, Gangnam, Gangseo, Geumcheon, Guro, Gwanak, Gwangjin, Jongno, Jung, Jungnang, Mapo, Nowon, Seocho, Seodaemun, Seongbuk, Seongdong, Songpa, Yangcheon, Yeongdeungpo, Yongsan

Metropolitan Area: forms the Capital Metropolitan Area with Incheon Metropolitan City and Gyeonggi Province

Area: 11,686 km2

Population: app. 22 mil

Major Cities in CPA

(1) Incheon (entire city/urban area)--964.53 sq. km/389.15 sq. km, 2.54 mil/2.46 mil
(2) Suwon--121 sq. km, 1.03 mil
(3) Seongnam--142 sq. km, 0.95 mil
(4) Bucheon--53. 44 sq. km, 0.84 mil
(5) Goyang--267. 29 sq. km, 0.80 mil
(6) Ansan-- 144.92 ㎢, 0.62 mil
(7) Anyang--58.52 sq. km, 0.60 mil
(8) Yongin--592 sq. km, 0.55 mil

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Damn it took like 40 min for 2 cities. :sleepy:
Can any one do this for the rest of us? Post some info on your own cities...

Yeah, Rome and Delhi are far more powerful than Paris... :sleepy:
Comme on dit chez moi : "T'es sacrément grave..."

there are a billion catholics and last time I checked, Italy is roughly the same size as France.

by political power:
1 Washington
2 Moscow
3 Geneva
4 Bruxelles
5 Beijing
6 Dehli
7 London
8 Brasilia
9 Berlin
10 Rome

by economic power:
1 New York
2 Tokyo
3 London
4 Paris
5 Hong Kong
6 Sao Paulo
7 Osaka
8 Los Angeles
9 Shanghai
10 Milano or Frankfurt

by cultural/historical influence
1 Paris
2 London
3 Rome
4 Beijing
5 Athens
6 Mumbai
7 Los Angeles (sorry, but Hollywood is unfortunatly a strong influence in todays world)
8 Rio
9 New York
10 Jerusalem

It's only my personal perception!

It's only my personal perception!

Yeah, your personal perception. That's great. But I want us to talk more about how what a city looks (cityscape, landscape, nature, and layout), how big it is, how people live (quality of life), what they do for their living (economy, industry), what they can do in the city (cultural/sports infrastructure), transportation, architecture, telecommunication, etc, not what the city can influence on others or how powerful the city is.

by political power:
1 Washington
2 Moscow
3 Geneva
4 Bruxelles
5 Beijing
6 Dehli
7 London
8 Brasilia
9 Berlin
10 Rome

by economic power:
1 New York
2 Tokyo
3 London
4 Paris
5 Hong Kong
6 Sao Paulo
7 Osaka
8 Los Angeles
9 Shanghai
10 Milano or Frankfurt

by cultural/historical influence
1 Paris
2 London
3 Rome
4 Beijing
5 Athens
6 Mumbai
7 Los Angeles (sorry, but Hollywood is unfortunatly a strong influence in todays world)
8 Rio
9 New York
10 Jerusalem

It's only my personal perception!

why doesmoscow have a more powerful influence than beijing?beijing should be ranged 2th.

More info on cities:

Osaka City

-the capital of Osaka Prefecture

-Population: 2.6 mil/ Area: 221. 3 sq. km

-GRDP(nominal): 171.9 bil USD (2001, only Osaka City)

-Wards: Abeno, Asahi, Chuo, Fukushima, Higashinari, Higashisumiyoshi, Higashiyodogawa, Hirano, Ikuno, Joto, Kita, Konohana, Minato, Miyakojima, Naniwa, Nishi, Nishinari, Nishiyodogawa, Suminoe, Sumiyoshi, Taisho, Tennoji, Tsurumi, Yodogawa

-Metro Area: Keihanshin (Kyoto-Osaka-Kobe) Metropolitan Area

KMA consists of Osaka Prefecture, and parts of Hyogo, Kobe, and Nara Prefectures, and includes Kobe, Hyogo Prefecture and Kyoto, Kyoto Prefecture.

Population: app. 16 mil
Major cities:
Kyoto (828 sq. km, 1.47 mil), Kobe (551.4 sq. km, 152 mil),
Sakai (137 sq. km, 0.80 mil), Higashiosaka (61.81 sq. km, 0.51 mil), Nishinomiya (100.18 sq. km, 0.46 mil), Amagasaki (49.8 sq. km, 0.46 mil), Hirakata (65 sq. km, 0.40 mil), Toyonaka (36.38 sq. km, 0.39 mil),
Nara (211.60 sq. km, 0.36 mil)

Many people are in agreement about:
1-2 NY London
3 Tokyo
4 Paris
5 Hong Kong

My opinion:
6 Chicago
7-10 Frankfurt, LA, Toronto, Sydney

Nagoya City

-the Capital of Aichi Prefecture, Japan

-Area: 326.45 sq. km

-Population: 2.19 mil

-GRDP(nominal): 95 bil USD (2001)

-Wards: Atsuta, Chikusa, Higashi, Kita, Meito, Midori, Minami, Minato, Mizuho, Moriyama, Naka, Nakagawa, Nakamura, Nishi, Showa, Tempaku

-Metro Area: unknown (Does any one know about Nagoya's metro area?)

Yokohama City

-the Capital of Kanagawa Prefecture, Japan

-Area: 434.98 sq. km

-Population: 3.55 mil

-GRDP (nominal): 102.7 bil USD (2001)

-Wards: Aoba, Asahi, Hodogaya, Isogo, Izumi, Kanagawa, Kanazawa, Kohoku, Konan, Midori, Minami, Naka, Nishi, Sakae, Seya, Totsuka, Tsurumi, Tsuzuki

-Metro Area: Yokohama City is a part of Greater Tokyo Area (aka. Tokyo-Yokohama Metropolitan Area)

Toronto, Sydney, Rome Berlin Madrid are overrated.

IMO

1. Tokyo
2. NYC
3. London
4. Paris
5. HK
6. Chicago
7. Singapore
8. Toronto
9. Seoul
10. Frankfurt

This list seems to be the most reasonable.

Shanghai

Official Name: Shanghai Municipality

Area: 6200 sq. km

Population: 16.7 mil

GRDP (nominal): 65 bil USD (2002)

Metro Area: None

Shenzhen

Official Name: Shenzhen Municipality

Area: 2,020 sq. km

Population: 4.05 mil

GRDP/capita (nominal): 16,430 USD (2003)

Districts: Luohu, Futian, Nanshan, Yantian, Bao'an, Longgang

Hehehe my list

NA: NYC, Chicago, Toronto, SF.

Europe: London, Paris, Frankfurt, Madrid.

South Asia: Mumbai, Delhi, Chennai, Karachi.

East Asia: Tokyo, HK, Shanghai, Seoul.

SE Asia: Singapore, KL, Bangkok, Jakarta.

Africa: Dunno.

Rest: Sydney, Melbourne, Auckland.

It is hard to define the global cities.
New York, London and Paris with Tokyo are always come to the front once we talk about global cities. (HK is right after)
But there are many factors decide that, a very important issue is the cities influence are based on their contries general international performance.

I would rather count the Top 10 cities today as following (Comprehensive index)

1. Washington DC
2. New York City
3. Beijing
4. Tokyo
5. Paris
6. London
7. Moscow
8. Shanghai
9. Berlin
10. Hong Kong

It is tough,

HAHHAH, I serously cant believe Islamabad isnt in any of your lists, firstly Karachi is better than India's best cities. and Islamabad is regarded by many as, better than Europe Infrastructure i.e. roads building poverty etc. and Islamabad is also regarded as being the 2nd best place for natural things! so i rank Islamabad top in ATLEAST Asia...ill post some pics...

While I am doing the research, except HK, Chinese cities are too small in economy scale and are no match to Japanese cities. Korean cities are also too small, except Seoul, to be mentioned. Osaka City's nominal GRDP (17 bil USD) is approximately the same as HK and Seoul.

Yokohama and Nagoya have nominal GRDP around 10 bil USD, which is far larger than those of Shanghai and Shenzhen (both around 6~7 bil)--seemingly the largest two in China except HK, but far samller than those of Seoul, Osaka, and Hk.

Beijing's GRDP, which will be posted later, is only about that of Ulsan city (3~4 bil USD), a Korean industrial city with the population of 1 mil.

So, economy wise, I think Seoul, Hongkong, and Osaka are only eligible candidates to be in Top 10. This is desperate. If E. Asian cities are only this much developed, since it's hard to expect S. Asian and Arabic cities will do whole lot better than them, most of the Asian cities won't have any chance to be in Top 10.

Yeah, your personal perception. That's great. But I want us to talk more about how what a city looks (cityscape, landscape, nature, and layout), how big it is, how people live (quality of life), what they do for their living (economy, industry), what they can do in the city (cultural/sports infrastructure), transportation, architecture, telecommunication, etc, not what the city can influence on others or how powerful the city is.
Come on, that's too easy and only from a present point of view. A city is not so linear in time, function, size and area. I tried to combine at least all the factors that you mentioned in a 2000 years lifetime. Otherwise it would be just a list of the biggest cities, the ones with the highest HDI or GDP... That's why I put three lists - it depends on the aspects you are looking at. From an architecural point of view on top would be clear Hong Kong, New York, Tokyo and maybe Sao Paulo. But also only from a point of view of the last 50-70 years. But okay, I got the question wrong as it seems :(

My list of Top 10, which is subject to change according to furture research is:

1~4: Tokyo, NYC, London, and Paris

5. Hongkong

6. Osaka

7. Los Angeles

8. Chicago

9. Seoul

10. Madrid (?)

Come on, that's too easy and only from a present point of view. A city is not so linear in time, function, size and area. I tried to combine at least all the factors that you mentioned in a 2000 years lifetime. Otherwise it would be just a list of the biggest cities, the ones with the highest HDI or GDP... That's why I put three lists - it depends on the aspects you are looking at. From an architecural point of view on top would be clear Hong Kong, New York, Tokyo and maybe Sao Paulo. But also only from a point of view of the last 50-70 years. But okay, I got the question wrong as it seems :(

I mean, let's just talk about the city herself, not how she is perceived by others (or how she influences others). If certain two cities are at very similar levels for everything else, you may use international influence for final determination, but influence shouldn't be major focus of this discussion, I think.

Islamabad:...

http://x2.putfile.com/5/12916435055.jpg

http://x2.putfile.com/5/12916424793.jpg

http://x2.putfile.com/5/12713005735.jpg

http://x2.putfile.com/5/12916491683.jpg

http://x2.putfile.com/5/12712571962.jpg

http://x2.putfile.com/5/12916463627.gif

5.Hong Kong
6.Los Angeles
7.Chicago
8.Seul
9.Shanghai
10.Madrid

I couldn't really decide on 9 and 10. Milan, or Toronto could be there as well.

Could European forumers please offer the info of European cities? I think we need the info of Manchester, Birmingham, Madrid, Barcelona, Frankfurt, Berlin, Rome, Milan, Saint Petersburg, Moscow, and Istanbul.

It's the capital of a booming country of one bilion people.

Every day that passes it is getting more and more important. London has done an impressive job (better than any other in Europe IMO) of rolling with the changes. And London, luckily will benefit from India's rise more than most.

no but it's not better than London for sure.. the country is still in the condition of developing, and economically, London is one of the most developed economic zone in the world.

Isn't it true that India's middle class is now larger than the entire population of the U.S.?

The Indian middle class is supposed to be around 350 million, so that's more than US. But still around 250 million are poor, so lotsa work to be done still, altho I think right progress is taking place.

there's NO way that you can have only ONE list for top 10 cities, for common folks Madrid has a lot of influence (read, the capital of the most visited country). for economists however, the big 4 in Japan will all make into top 10. If you have to consider all those factors in ONE ranking, IMO Kuesul (sorry if i got your name wrong) did a darn good job.

and we are not even talking about political influence..(read countries with nukes).

no but it's not better than London for sure.. the country is still in the condition of developing, and economically, London is one of the most developed economic zone in the world.


I agree with you. Right now London is faaaaar ahead of Delhi.But Delhi is also gearing to be the capital of one of the most important countries in future. It has massive expressways, a huge metro/subway, a proposed BRT thing and lotsa other stuff planned or under construction. The following threads have more information of Delhi's developments.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=196485

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=209091

NY,London,Tokyo,Hong Kong,Shanghai,Singapore,Paris,Toronto,Moscow,Berlin

Hehehe my list

NA: NYC, Chicago, Toronto, SF.

Europe: London, Paris, Frankfurt, Madrid.

South Asia: Mumbai, Delhi, Chennai, Karachi.

East Asia: Tokyo, HK, Shanghai, Seoul.

SE Asia: Singapore, KL, Bangkok, Jakarta.

Africa: Dunno.

Rest: Sydney, Melbourne, Auckland.


The LA Hate on this board continues. I understand if Ny is rated higer than LA, i might even comprehend Chicago, but Toronto and SF? are you on crack or just a hater?

HAHHAH, I serously cant believe Islamabad isnt in any of your lists, firstly Karachi is better than India's best cities. and Islamabad is regarded by many as, better than Europe Infrastructure i.e. roads building poverty etc. and Islamabad is also regarded as being the 2nd best place for natural things! so i rank Islamabad top in ATLEAST Asia...ill post some pics...

http://img168.echo.cx/img168/640/bsmeter3yl.gif

5. Hong Kong
6. Chicago
7. Sydney
8. LA
9. Toronto
10. Frankfurt/ Seoul/ Singapore

haha very funny
sydney ahead of Toronto...thats funny to lol
why should toronto be ahead of sydney?

New York City,Los Angeles,San Francisco,Chicago,San Diego,Montreal,Toronto,Vancouver,Sydney,Melbourne,Perth.

http://img207.echo.cx/img207/3656/chengshi4br.jpg
While I am doing the research, except HK, Chinese cities are too small in economy scale and are no match to Japanese cities. Korean cities are also too small, except Seoul, to be mentioned. Osaka City's nominal GRDP (17 bil USD) is approximately the same as HK and Seoul.

Yokohama and Nagoya have nominal GRDP around 10 bil USD, which is far larger than those of Shanghai and Shenzhen (both around 6~7 bil)--seemingly the largest two in China except HK, but far samller than those of Seoul, Osaka, and Hk.

Beijing's GRDP, which will be posted later, is only about that of Ulsan city (3~4 bil USD), a Korean industrial city with the population of 1 mil.

So, economy wise, I think Seoul, Hongkong, and Osaka are only eligible candidates to be in Top 10. This is desperate. If E. Asian cities are only this much developed, since it's hard to expect S. Asian and Arabic cities will do whole lot better than them, most of the Asian cities won't have any chance to be in Top 10.

source please?

source please?

RMB/8.27

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^^^ Is Beijing 16800 sq.km in size ? :runaway:

Is it the Beijing City or the Beijing district/Province ?

^^^ Is Beijing 16800 sq.km in size ? :runaway:

Is it the Beijing City or the Beijing district/Province ?
Beijing is a municipality directly under the Central Government.
China has 4 municipalities directly under the Central Government,they are Shanghai,Beijing,Tianjin,Chongqing,Chongqing has the largest area.
http://img226.echo.cx/img226/9259/zhixiashi3ue.jpg

Some China's cities' area is much bigger than some county's size.
lol

I see . Thx .

Its something like Delhi State in India which includes New Delhi city

Shanghai's economy

the Population contains the floating population,things will be like this.
2002GDP:65.40billion us dollar
2003:nominal increase rate:15.56% actual gdp increase rate:11.8％
GDP:75.58billion us dollar---Population:17.00million---GDP per capita:4446 us dollar
2004:nominal increase rate:19.21% actual gdp increase rate:13.6%
GDP:90.10billion us dollar---Population:17.50million---GDP per capita:5149 us dollar
conjecture
2005:nominal increase rate:16.00% actual gdp increase rate:
GDP:104.52billion us dollar---Population:18.00million---GDP per capita:5807 us dollar
2006:nominal increase rate:16.00% actual gdp increase rate:
GDP:121.24billion us dollar---Population:18.40million---GDP per capita:6589 us dollar
2007:nominal increase rate:16.00% actual gdp increase rate:
GDP:140.64billion us dollar---Population:18.80million---GDP per capita:7481 us dollar
2008:nominal increase rate:16.00% actual gdp increase rate:
GDP:163.14billion us dollar---Population:19.20million---GDP per capita:8497 us dollar
2009:nominal increase rate:16.00% actual gdp increase rate:
GDP:189.24billion us dollar---Population:19.60million---GDP per capita:9655 us dollar
2010:nominal increase rate:16.00% actual gdp increase rate:[2010 Shanghai EXPO]
GDP:219.52billion us dollar---Population:20.00million---GDP per capita:10976 us dollar
2011:nominal increase rate:16.00% actual gdp increase rate:
GDP:254.64billion us dollar---Population:20.40million---GDP per capita:12482 us dollar
2012:nominal increase rate:16.00% actual gdp increase rate:
GDP:295.38billion us dollar---Population:20.80million---GDP per capita:14201 us dollar
2013:nominal increase rate:16.00% actual gdp increase rate:
GDP:342.64billion us dollar---Population:21.20million---GDP per capita:16162 us dollar
2014:nominal increase rate:16.00% actual gdp increase rate:
GDP:397.46billion us dollar---Population:21.60million---GDP per capita:18401 us dollar
2015:nominal increase rate:16.00% actual gdp increase rate:
GDP:461.05billion us dollar---Population:22.00million---GDP per capita:20957 us dollar

Besides tourism, why would Madrid be in the top 10 (and ahead of Milan or even Frankfurt)?

http://img207.echo.cx/img207/3656/chengshi4br.jpg

Ok, those numbers are a bit bigger than I found, since mines are from 2001~2003. However, they are still too small compared to major cities in other countries. Shanghai (90 bil) is close to 100 bil, but Yokohama and Nagoya reached 90~100 bil about 5 years ago.

^^^ Is Beijing 16800 sq.km in size ? :runaway:

Is it the Beijing City or the Beijing district/Province ?

Chinese cities are not really 'city'. They are agglomerates, formed by combination of both urban and rural areas.

Ok, those numbers are a bit bigger than I found, since mines are from 2001~2003. However, they are still too small compared to major cities in other countries. Shanghai (90 bil) is close to 100 bil, but Yokohama and Nagoya reached 90~100 bil about 5 years ago.
1.we all know that Japan's economy is huge,so it's not strange Japan's cities are all high GDP.China began to develop quicklly from 1990.so youcant only see the data,but also should see the speed.
2.Chinese cities' GDP(PPP) is much lager than GDP(nominal).

Chinese cities are not really 'city'. They are agglomerates, formed by combination of both urban and rural areas.
no,china's cities are always metros,contains city proper,and some satellite towns in this area.

no,china's cities are always metros,contains city proper,and some satellite towns in this area.

That's exactly what I mean by 'agglomerate'.

Lemme fix my list:

1. New York City

2. London

3. Tokyo

4. Paris

5. Los Angeles

6. Hongkong

7. Osaka

8. Seoul

9. Chicago

10. Singapore or Shanghai

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
In determining the rankings of Top 3, I considered their influence upon world.

What do you guys think about it?

I think shanghai cant go into top 10 right now,but will in the near future..
Lemme fix my list:

1. New York City

2. London

3. Tokyo

4. Paris

5. Los Angeles

6. Hongkong

7. Osaka

8. Seoul

9. Chicago

10. Singapore or Shanghai

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
In determining the rankings of Top 3, I considered their influence upon world.

What do you guys think about it?

Singapore

Population: 4.4 mil

Area: 692. 7 sq. km

GDP (nominal): 25,200 (2003)


Taipei

Popluation: 2.6 mil

Area: 272 sq. km

Districts: Songshan, Sinyi, Da-an, Jhongshan, Jhongjheng, Datong, Wanhua, Wunshan, Nangang, Neihu, Shihlin, Beitou

Metro Area: Taiwan County

Area: 2052. 6 sq. km

Population: 3.7 mil

Major cities: Banciao (23.42 sq. km, 0.54 mil), Jhonghe (20.14 sq. km, 0.41 mil), Sinjhuang (19.74 sq. km, 0.38 mil), Sanchong (16.32 sq. km, 0.38 mil)

BTW, can any one give me some idea how Sydney is defined?

yeah it depends on which definition ...
the measurement of city sizes are so different
for different countries ...
Never knew ChongQing Metro is so large ... its bigger than all the other large metros combined together ...
Beijing+Shanghai+Shenzhen+Guangzhou ...
Crazy Huge ...
Is it the largest metro in the world???

I wouldn't consider kyoto and kobe as part of osaka ...
they are completely different entity ...

Well heres my list ... Top 20
NYC, London, Tokyo, Paris, LA, HK, Seoul, Osaka, Frankfurt, Singapore, Chicago, Shanghai, Beijing, Sydney, Dubai, Madrid, Amsterdam, Cairo, Mexico City, Bueno Aires

we should talk about top 20 cities

Toronto (City Proper/Metro)

-Area: 641 sq. km/app. 7000 sq. km

-Population: 2.5 mil/5.8 mil

-Metro: Greater Toronto Area (GTA)

---GRDP (nominal, entire GTA): 109 bil USD

---Major cities/towns: Mississauga (0.69 mil), Brampton (0.41 mil), Markham (0.26), Vaughan (0.24 mil)


The info is from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Toronto_Area. But how come 5.8 mil area has only 109 bil GRDP in Canada?

we should talk about top 20 cities

Let's settle down Top 10 first and then move on.

While I am doing the research, except HK, Chinese cities are too small in economy scale and are no match to Japanese cities. Korean cities are also too small, except Seoul, to be mentioned. Osaka City's nominal GRDP (17 bil USD) is approximately the same as HK and Seoul.

Yokohama and Nagoya have nominal GRDP around 10 bil USD, which is far larger than those of Shanghai and Shenzhen (both around 6~7 bil)--seemingly the largest two in China except HK, but far samller than those of Seoul, Osaka, and Hk.

Beijing's GRDP, which will be posted later, is only about that of Ulsan city (3~4 bil USD), a Korean industrial city with the population of 1 mil.

So, economy wise, I think Seoul, Hongkong, and Osaka are only eligible candidates to be in Top 10. This is desperate. If E. Asian cities are only this much developed, since it's hard to expect S. Asian and Arabic cities will do whole lot better than them, most of the Asian cities won't have any chance to be in Top 10.

What does GRDP mean? I got it means Gross Region Demestic Product, but how comes it is so different from GDP?
What's the difference?

What does GRDP mean? I got it means Gross Region Demestic Product, but how comes it is so different from GDP?
What's the difference?

They are essentially the same. GRDP is for a part (region) of a nation, GDP is for the entire nation.

While I am doing the research, except HK, Chinese cities are too small in economy scale and are no match to Japanese cities. Korean cities are also too small, except Seoul, to be mentioned. Osaka City's nominal GRDP (17 bil USD) is approximately the same as HK and Seoul.

Yokohama and Nagoya have nominal GRDP around 10 bil USD, which is far larger than those of Shanghai and Shenzhen (both around 6~7 bil)--seemingly the largest two in China except HK, but far samller than those of Seoul, Osaka, and Hk.

Beijing's GRDP, which will be posted later, is only about that of Ulsan city (3~4 bil USD), a Korean industrial city with the population of 1 mil.

So, economy wise, I think Seoul, Hongkong, and Osaka are only eligible candidates to be in Top 10. This is desperate. If E. Asian cities are only this much developed, since it's hard to expect S. Asian and Arabic cities will do whole lot better than them, most of the Asian cities won't have any chance to be in Top 10.

So obviously the Statistics you presented above as quoted is not right.

Most peope 'round here see the list as going:
NYC
London
Paris
Tokyo

But at Skyscraperpage.com , it varies a lot more after NYC.

So obviously the Statistics you presented above as quoted is not right.

What do you mean by "not right"?

What do you mean by "not right"?
Like the GRDP of Shanghai is just 6~7 Billion US Dollars?
you must be kidding.
Shanghai's GRDP will be 104.32 Billion US Dollars by the year of 2005 (which is this year)

I think it must be a concept's misunderstanding of Billion.

Like the GRDP of Shanghai is just 6~7 Billion US Dollars?
you must be kidding.
Shanghai's GRDP will be 104.32 Billion US Dollars by the year of 2005 (which is this year)

I think it must be a concept's misunderstanding of Billion.

You can't have this year's GRDP in this year. That's merely an estimate. And I admitted that my data were of 2~4 years ago.

Let me take one step further. Shanghai's GRDP about 100 mil does not guarantee that the city is one of the in-top 10 cities. Singapre, Nagoya, and Yokohama have GDP higher than or about 100 bil, but only occasionally or rarely mentioned as one of top 10.

on 2004, Shanghai's GRDP is 90.73 Billion USDollars,
the statistics of 2005 is based on the first quarter's Shanghai's GRDP.

Btw, you made a mistake by saying Shanghai's GRDP to 100 mil?
It is should be 100 Billion.

Obviously, Shanghai's position together with its reputation and potential is much higher than the cities you mentioned above.

on 2004, Shanghai's GRDP is 90.73 Billion USDollars,
the statistics of 2005 is based on the first quarter's Shanghai's GRDP.

Btw, you made a mistake by saying Shanghai's GRDP to 100 mil?
It is should be 100 Billion.

Obviously, Shanghai's position together with its reputation and potential is much higher than the cities you mentioned above.

Then let's wait until Shanghai is developed enough to ensure her position in Top 10.

@ChinaboyUSA

Or another choice for you is to counterargue that Shanghai should be in Top 10 by saying that Shanghai has infrastructures of information/communication, transportaion, culture, health/recreation/sports, shopping, and education, developed enough to be in Top 10.

Shanghai, Shanghai :)

you cant only see the GDP:)
and Shanghai's GDP(ppp) may be higher than seoul as China's GDP(PPP) is much larger than GDP(nominal)

hey ChinaboyUSA i like your avatar :)

New York
London
Paris
Tokyo
Mexico City
Sao Paulo
Milan
Madrid
Seoul
Buenos Aires

what a latin-centric list!

Top 10 for me! If it were Top 20, I would throw in some Chinese cities too.

well this should not be based on your personal preference. You should make your list considering factors such as importance, influence.

tell me how your love can make BA one of the top 10 cities, or SP, MC or even Madrid, Milan for that matter.

^ if you look at the first post, each of these cities that I chose were listed as potential candidates from top 5-10. Except for Milan, which I think should be included because it is the financial capital of Italy, a European powerhouse.

but i disagree with your list. You can either ignore me or explain to me(and others as well) how you came up with the ranking. afterall this is urban"talk".

New York, London, Paris, and Tokyo go without saying.

MC, SP, Madrid, and Seoul are economical capitals of countries that are among the top 15 in the world and in the case of MC and SP, are some of the largest cities on earth.

Perhaps the only two that I would be willing to debate about, are Milan and Buenos Aires. I included Milan because it is an extremely wealthy city at the financial heart of the Northern Italy, on the main economic motors of the world's largest trading block, the EU. Buenos Aires I included as it is on of the largest cities in one of the richest countries in Latin America.

Top 10 for me! If it were Top 20, I would throw in some Chinese cities too.

It must be so ironic that your list including Hong Kong, is Hong Kong a Chinese city? :wave:

^ changed my list.

Part of the reason that I have not added Chinese cities is because the cities that I have listed do a MUCH better job preserving historical cores than in China. I have heard sad reports of people getting evicted from traditional neighborhoods in Beijing so that the areas could be paved, filled with huge ugly high rises and massive highways.

After reading some other comments, I decided to take Hong Kong off the list.

MC, SP, Madrid, and Seoul are economical capitals of countries that are among the top 15 in the world and in the case of MC and SP, are some of the largest cities on earth.

i will go easy on that.

I included Milan because it is an extremely wealthy city at the financial heart of the Northern Italy,

while you excluded the main fiancial heart of ASEAN- Singapore?

Buenos Aires I included as it is on of the largest cities in one of the richest countries in Latin America.

Latin America already has Sao Paulo. Besides what great influence does Argentina have outside LA that its capital deserves to be in Top 10?

^ changed my list.

Part of the reason that I have not added Chinese cities is because the cities that I have listed do a MUCH better job preserving historical cores than in China. I have heard sad reports of people getting evicted from traditional neighborhoods in Beijing so that the areas could be paved, filled with huge ugly high rises and massive highways.

After reading some other comments, I decided to take Hong Kong off the list.

Hi there,

Please read this article at:
http://en.chinabroadcast.cn/1857/2004-12-6/102@176019.htm

How to make the culture and tradition to be a sustainable one is a very important issue in China today.

A thing I want to tell you is going to China and see it by your own eyes.

again bud, glittery skyscrapers do not make a city. Do not be so quick to poopoo Buenos Aires. Argentina's annual economic output is over half a trilliion dollars. Buenos Aires houses about a third of the country's population (and undoubtedly is richer on average than the rest of Argentina). So, It probably has an economy along the size of about $150-200 billion. For comparison sake, the economy of NYC (just the city itself), its economy is about $500 billion. While Argentina may not have as many interested suitors as other parts of the developing world, it is still the capital of one of the top 25 economies in the world. It is the richest large country in Latin America, a market that is often overlooked.

A thing I want to tell you is going to China and see it by your own eyes.

Thank you. I agree. China is definitely one of the top countries on my "To visit list." :yes:

in short you believe BA is superior to HK?

If I had to choose to live between HK and BA, easy choice: HK. However, I would choose to live in San Diego ahead of Hong Kong. This does not make San Diego a more important city.

Thank you. I agree. China is definitely one of the top countries on my "To visit list." :yes:

Welcome, you will be shocked I bet.
I have friends here in the States who are Latin American, they all love China a lot. :)

It is a completely subjective choice on my part. The fact that we at least moderately agree on 8 out of the 10 cities on my list illustrates that we have some degree of agreement on which cities would consist the Top 10.

Skyscrapers dont make a city, but you have also to realize that beautiful buidlings dont make a city either. although HK does not have much economic output (or it does?), but it served as a gateway and bridge to the most important market today- China. The city itself is an important fiancial centre. All most all of world's banks are here. It's GDP per capita is one of the highest in the world. Not to mention its amazing culture, movie industry that is unrivaled in Asia. Many people get the misconception that all Chinese can do kung fu from HK movies. and aboveall this is skyscrapercity and we all love skyscrapers.

If I had to choose to live between HK and BA, easy choice: HK. However, I would choose to live in San Diego ahead of Hong Kong. This does not make San Diego a more important city.
it's just your choice,can it explain anything? none

again bud, glittery skyscrapers do not make a city. Do not be so quick to poopoo Buenos Aires. Argentina's annual economic output is over half a trilliion dollars. Buenos Aires houses about a third of the country's population (and undoubtedly is richer on average than the rest of Argentina). So, It probably has an economy along the size of about $150-200 billion. For comparison sake, the economy of NYC (just the city itself), its economy is about $500 billion. While Argentina may not have as many interested suitors as other parts of the developing world, it is still the capital of one of the top 25 economies in the world. It is the richest large country in Latin America, a market that is often overlooked.

What are you talking about? Argentina a trillion member? :eek2 Your calculation is just wrong from the beginning.

Hi there,

I fully recommend this website for your reference about Shanghai:

http://www.shanghaidiaries.com/archives/business/

Tell me what do you think about Shanghai, thanks.

What should I do with these essay-like articles? :sleepy: You want me to be impressed by them? Hey, every big city has what Shanghai has. I want the numbers. How many galleries/museums do you have? How many books are in your city library? What's the area of green? etc...etc..

But anyway, it's fine to say Shanghai is in Top 10. I have decided 9 cities in Top 10, but I couldn't decide the last one. Shanghai may get it.

by logic! Top 20

01. New York
02. Tokyo
03. London
04. Paris
05. Hong Kong
06. Toronto
07. Sydney
08. Berlin
09. Rome
10. Madrid
11. Chicago
12. Frankfurt
13. Los Angeles
14. Osaka
15. Seoul
16. Amsterdam
17. Milan
18. Geneva
19. Singapore
20. Shanghai

What should I do with these essay-like articles? :sleepy: You want me to be impressed by them? Hey, every big city has what Shanghai has. I want the numbers. How many galleries/museums do you have? How many books are in your city library? What's the area of green? etc...etc..

But anyway, it's fine to say Shanghai is in Top 10. I have decided 9 cities in Top 10, but I couldn't decide the last one. Shanghai may get it.

There are plenty of information on Shanghai's Statistics online, so you can find out the details by yourself.

Here I find an article about Shanghai on Forbes, Please be notified that the date of composition was 2002, Shanghai/China is developing so fast. One thing about China is the big difference between the Urban area and the country, if Shanghai will continue to develop as a more important city in the world, the rural areas development in China may hinders that.

It is good that the government is taking solid measures on the backward rural areas.

For a lot of people in China, especially the young people, Shanghai is a legend and symbol of China's future..not only there, I live in New York City, my friends here from different nations are all looking at Shanghai as a sign of the 21st Century. So whether Shanghai is one of the Top 10 Cities in the world or not, it must be interesting that people talk about Shanghai on the Subway ride in New York City.

I love these two great cities.

citation:http://www.forbes.com/global/2002/0527/066_print.htmlTitle: Shanghai Buzz
'The city has emerged in the past ten years as the gateway to the most vibrant large economy in the world. This is why we consider it the most promising place for an entrepreneur. But investors better mind the potholes.
The American entrepreneur Cortney Smith arrived in Shanghai in 1996 to establish a bungee-jumping business. Chinese thrill-seekers latched on to it, and Bungee International now operates (or has sold the rights to operate) 16 Chinese sites for bungee-jumping and other extreme sports. He expects to add ten more sites this year, and revenue is predicted to total $1.6 million in 2002, up 33% from last year.

Smith believes that he chose a good place to set up shop. "People can feel a buzz in Shanghai," he says. "It's part of the sixth sense of entrepreneurs." But sometimes there's too much adrenalin. Like bungee-jumping, business in Shanghai can be exciting, but it certainly isn't for the faint of heart.

This is not the first time that Shanghai is emerging as a top business center. A century and a half ago, the opening of China to international trade transformed the city into a capital of capital. Today Shanghai's economy is growing even faster than China as a whole, and foreign investment continues to pour in. In the past ten years, the city absorbed $48 billion of foreign capital, nearly matching the amount nearby Taiwan has taken in the past five decades ($50 billion) and making it a top destination for foreign investment in China.

And foreigners alone aren't the only ones who are rejuvenating Shanghai. Three of the five richest business families on FORBES GLOBAL's 2001 China Rich List have their headquarters in Shanghai, including members of the Liu clan, which came out on top. Shanghai's position at the mouth of the Yangtze River enables entrepreneurs to reach a market of 100 million, 13.2 milion in the city itself, and provides them with a central vantage point from which to penetrate the rest of China.

Even though Shanghai is in the vanguard of the economy, it can't isolate itself from the rest of China. The nation ranks 25 out of 27 countries covered in our survey of tax misery this year. China stands far behind Hong Kong and Singapore in surveys of competitiveness; it's hampered by a murky legal system and inadequate protection of intellectual property. Yet Shanghai is fast supplanting Hong Kong as the gateway to China. Despite Hong Kong's adherence to British common law and its superb infrastructure, it is losing its preeminence for investors and entrepreneurs wanting to do business in China.

Shanghai has had to make up the ground that was lost in the early decades of communism. Successful entrepreneurs fled, and locals were taught to be ashamed of the city's capitalist past. After 1949, people were usually not allowed to move to Shanghai from other parts of China, and most of the profits from city businesses were sent to the government in Beijing.

Things began to improve a decade ago. In the 1980s, southern China was the area that benefited from economic reforms. Then China began to unshackle Shanghai. It wouldn't have happened as fast without help from top politicians in Beijing--the former mayors of Shanghai, Jiang Zemin and Zhu Rongji (today China's president and premier).

Since 1990, Shanghai has been transformed. Blocks of prewar dwellings have been leveled and replaced with modern business towers and residential buildings; lavish spending has created a good road network. Foreigners and overseas Chinese have played a role in the renewal. Chinese families that fled communism have returned, joined by Taiwanese fleeing high costs at home and multinationals looking for cheap labor. Financial incentives have turned the city into the country's hub for foreign banks.

Successful locals as well as top foreign executives once again dwell in elite neighborhoods, now made up of stand-alone homes that carry price tags in excess of $1 million. Major city streets are lined with restaurants and bars crowded with Chinese and foreigners alike. As prosperity has spread through central China, Shanghai has become a magnet for shops and is home to three of the country's five biggest retailers.

Multinationals that are expanding in Shanghai include Microsoft, which, despite rampant software piracy in China, operates a global support center there; it's tucked away behind a shopping district in the middle of the city. Technical questions from customers around the world arrive over the internet to the 400-person office. The staff figures out what the problems are and sends back replies (mostly prewritten).

"Shanghai has a great talent pool, in part because it's a city where young people want to live," says Jun Tang, the president of Microsoft China. In April the U.S. company announced a $4 million 50-50 joint venture with the government-owned Shanghai Alliance Investment to sell software. Other active Western companies include Intel, Alcatel and General Motors. Many big foreign companies say that the government has helped ease their way.

But small businesses face a tougher time. "It's not really the little guy's place yet," says Mitchell Dudek, the partner in charge at the law firm Jones, Day, Reavis & Pogue in Shanghai, which advises large foreign companies on their China strategies. He does say that things are changing for the better. "It will happen over time."

The challenges for entrepreneurs are many. Despite the buzz, Shanghai is still dominated by the public sector, and the government is a majority owner of its biggest local companies. About half of its gross domestic product in 2000 came from the government, compared with 40% for the country as a whole. State-owned banks rule the financial roost in Shanghai, too. And it's sometimes hard for people from other parts of China to move there. "Shanghai before 1949 was a place where people came from all over China and the world to start businesses, and that helped make it great," says Pamela Yatsko, author of a book on the city. "It needs to be a melting pot again, as New York is today."

There are financial and administrative hurdles, too. For foreigners, it can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to open a wholly owned business. Businesspeople complain about the difficulty in obtaining trading licenses and the high fees paid to government-sanctioned hiring agencies and middlemen. And although Shanghai is the city in China that is the most friendly to foreigners, it isn't like Hong Kong or Singapore, where non-Chinese speakers can just show up and get things done. Traffic signs are in English, but most of the successful foreigners in the city speak Mandarin Chinese fluently. Many also have Chinese spouses to help them circumvent restrictions faced by foreigners.

Entrepreneurs are finding opportunities. In 2000, Jeff Bernstein, formerly a consultant at McKinsey, set up a logistics company in a special trade zone and provided warehousing and distribution services to companies that focus on finding customers and selling. Bernstein's company had less than $5 million in revenue last year, and it is likely to double in 2002, encouraging him to look for venture capital. A cofounder of an organization for young entrepreneurs in Shanghai, he says that China should do more to ease the way for new businesses. "That China is such a hotbed of entrepreneurialism is in spite of the government's policies," he says.

Trade is also enabling Jeff Premer, a 32-year-old American, to realize his ambitions. He moved to Asia ten years ago and achieved success in Taiwan by selling locally made nuts and bolts. "It was a good business, and Taiwan had a lock on it," says Premer, who speaks Mandarin fluently.

In November he moved to China, where his company, Diversitech Holdings, has found lower-cost suppliers in China; he expects its outsourcing business there to total $15 million, supplying tool kits and skateboard parts to such U.S. stores as Target and the Sports Authority. This is triple his revenue in Taiwan. He works through a representative office in Shanghai and channels sales through a trading company in Hong Kong.

Real estate is another source of wealth in Shanghai. Among the city's most successful private entrepreneurs is Hui Wingmau; in our China Rich List last year we estimated his wealth at $723 million. Hui entered the property development business in Fujian province in 1989; he focused on Beijing in the early 1990s before turning to Shanghai at the end of the decade. "People go to Shanghai for business and to Beijing for politics," he says.

Hui puts his money where his optimism is. Today the family has five projects in Shanghai worth well over $1 billion in total. Among the most notable: the Shanghai Riviera, seven buildings in the city's Pudong district that vary in size from 47 stories to 60. He's also building a hotel and commercial complex just north of the historic Bund area.

Foreigners are also becoming involved in Shanghai's property market. Sam Crispin, a Briton who is managing director of FPDSavills' office in the city, will leave the company in June to open his own property consultancy with a local partner. He arrived in Shanghai in 1994 and says that it is crucial to build up relationships with locals before starting a business. "I figured you could lose money on your own for eight years [by starting a business right away] or learn the ropes and then start out on your own," he says. A new business needs a minimum start-up capital of $140,000, but this is less than half of what it was a few years ago, says Crispin: "The authorities now understand the benefit of small companies."

More young Shanghainese who left to look for better jobs abroad are returning home in increasing numbers to start businesses. Jun Wu, 30, a former engineer with Sendit in Stockholm and with Microsoft, returned to Shanghai in 1999 to help form Intrinsic Technology, a wireless telecommunications software company that had revenue of $3 million last year. Investors today include Fidelity Investments and Taiwan's Acer.

"Shanghai will definitely emerge as a technology center in Asia," says Wu. "There are already more entrepreneurs, but we lack a world-class [high-tech] company for now. As soon as that happens, things will be seen differently."

Encouraged by the prospect of financial reform, financial consultants have been arriving in large numbers. Stephen Harner, 52, formerly a vice president at Citibank in Japan and Taiwan and a former chief representative for Deutsche Bank in Shanghai, left the German company in 1999 to focus on his own financial industry and investment advisory firm. It wasn't easy getting started. The initial capital requirement was $350,000, and it seemed that the office could be located only in Pudong.

It took him a few months to find a cheaper location while adhering to the regulations that stipulate where foreign-owned consultancies can be established. Harner, a fluent speaker of Mandarin, resides in Shanghai but does business through his Jiangsu entity.

Business has improved recently, he says, and he's receiving work from the International Finance Corp., an affiliate of the World Bank, providing management advice to Chinese banks. He has also worked with foreign banks and insurers that are looking for ways to crack the China market. "Shanghai has been a good place to be because it is where foreign financial service companies are planning expansion."

Shanghai's progress could be knocked off course by China's secretive domestic politics. The departure of the popular mayor Xu Kuandi for murky reasons in December is an example. China's volatile nationalism can cause problems for foreign companies. Labor unrest is growing.

But Shanghai is on the right track. Two forces will help entrepreneurs. If China's economy slows down, this may force the city to improve the investment climate by reducing red tape. China's being a member of the wto is likely to improve the way private domestic companies are treated. "The reforms have been working so far in starting to move people out of the state companies and toward private ones [in Shanghai]," says Wong Siu-lun, head of the Center of Asia Studies at Hong Kong University.

What's needed, he says, is for the government to reduce institutional barriers, such as access to capital. "The potential is there [for private companies to play a much bigger role]," Wong says. If this happens, Shanghai will become even more important for China and the world.'
:)

What are you talking about? Argentina a trillion member? :eek2 Your calculation is just wrong from the beginning.
half a trillion means that it is not a trillion member. the economy is about $500 billion.

i can say almost all people in ssc fully underestimate shanghai
they even said dubai better than shanghai,they all look at skyscraper only

they always said skyscraper doesnt mean great city,when somebody talk about hongkong,but when compare shanghai and hongkong,they still said shanghai is worse than hk very much,shanghai lack of impressive skyscraper and skyline, so they judge its a bad city,but nobody look at its potential
it should in top 10 city soon,its economic influence in the world is incredible after china join WTO
just look at times magazine,its new capital of the world

OK. I admit that Buenos Aires has large population and economy. I found the city has the population of about 2.8 mil and metro pop about 12 mil. That's a huge number. But I don't think that's enough to be ranked higher than L.A and Chicago. Look at the cities like Seoul, Osaka, Hongkong, and L.A. Only for city proper, their economy size is about that of Buenos Aires Metropolitan Area.

My List:

1:New York
2:London
3:Tokyo
4:Los Angeles
5:Paris
6:Hong Kong
7:Chicago
8:Toronto
9:Shanghai
10:Sydney

My List:

1:New York
2:London
3:Tokyo
4:Los Angeles
5:Paris
6:Hong Kong
7:Chicago
8:Toronto
9:Shanghai
10:Sydney

I don't really see why Toronto and Sydney are often mentioned as in-Top 10 cities. I would rather put Miland in it.

Yes, Milan!!!

Would the list be better with Milan in it?

1. New York City
2. London
3. Tokyo
4. Los Angeles
5. Paris
6. Hongkong
7. Seoul
8. Osaka
9. Milan
10. Chicago

What do you think?

why should toronto be ahead of sydney?
Because its larger, more important and its the Largest city in a Larger, more important Country.

Because its larger, more important and its the Largest city in a Larger, more important Country.

--Toronto Stock Exchange is the Third Largest in North America
Ranked after NYSE and NASDAQ, the TSX Group is the third largest stock market in North America and the eighth largest in the world by market capitalization. With $1.387 trillion in domestic capitalization* and a total market capitalization of $1.547 trillion in equity exchanges, the TSX group provides the international financial community with access to Canada’s equity capital market.
http://www.tse.com/

--Financial centre of Canada, 4th largest in North America, employing 176,000 in financial sector

--Home to 90 per cent of Canada's foreign banks, and its top accounting and mutual fund companies, and 80 per cent of Canada's largest R&D, law, advertising and high-tech firms

--More than 76,000 businesses generate a gross domestic product of $98 billion and employ over 1.3 million people

Sources: Toronto Board of Trade "Profile of Toronto and the Greater Toronto Area, 1998/99: Toronto business and market guide".

--Toronto is recognized as the third-largest theatre centre in the English-speaking world, after New York and London with over 90 venues in the GTA.

--Toronto Stock Exchange is the Third Largest in North America...eighth largest in the world by market capitalization. With...a total market capitalization of $1.547 trillion in equity exchanges.

--Toronto is recognized as the third-largest theatre centre in the English-speaking world, after New York and London with over 90 venues in the GTA.

This is good supporting evidence that Toronto has right to be in Top 10.

--More than 76,000 businesses generate a gross domestic product of $98 billion and employ over 1.3 million people


But this is not.

^I see you are now the person who makes the ultimate decision.
:|

Keep in mind those numbers are for 1998. GDP fluctuates yearly.


2001
The Greater Toronto Area (GTA) is one of North America's fastest-growing regions. As an economic area, the GTA consists of 25 municipalities and four regions in a total area of over 7,000 square kilometers with a population of 5 million. With a work force of approximately 2.9 million people, more than 100,000 companies and a US $109 billion gross domestic product, the GTA is Canada's undisputed business and manufacturing capital.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/40/Gtorarea.PNG

EAST ASIA: Shanghai, Tokyo, Seoul, Hong Kong.

SOUTH EAST ASIAN: Bangkok, Kuala Lumpur, Singapore.

SOUTH ASIA: bombay.

MIDDLE EAST: Dubai.

EUROPE: paris, london, Moscow, frankfurt, brussels

AFRICA: cairo, johannesburgh

NORTH AMERICA: new york city, toronto, los angeles

LATIN AMERICA: buenos aires, mexico city, Rio de Janeiro, sao paulo

OCEANIA: sydney

globally

new york
london
paris
l.a
king kong
tokyo
sidney
frankfurt
chicago
melbourne

over the world

africa

johannesburg
cape town
cairo
pretoria
casablanca
nairobi
durban
alexandria
tunis
lagos

latin america

sao paulo
mexico city
buenos aires
santiago
panama city
monterrey
rio de janeiro
bogota
caracas
brasilia

europe

london
paris
frankfurt
milan
madrid
moscow
manchester
stockolm
rome
helsinki

asia

tokyo
king kong
shangai
singapur city
beijing
nagoya
taipei
kobe
beijing
jakarta

united states and canada

new york
los angeles
chicago
san francisco
atlanta
houston
dallas
denver
san diego
toronto

australia and the pacific

melbourne
sidney
auckland
brisbane
perth
wellington
gold coast
adelaide
hobart
christchurch

Some Info on the Cities.

Hongkong

Official Name: Hongkong Special Administrative Region

Area: 1,101㎢

Population: app. 6.8 mil

GDP/capita (nominal): 23,600 USD (2003)

Districts: Central & Western, Eastern, Islands, Kowloon City, Kwai Tsing, North, Sai Kung, Sham Shui Po, Sha Tin, Southern, Tai Po, Tsuen Wan, Wan Chai, Wong Tai Sin, Yau Tsim Mong, Yuen Long

Metropolitan Area: None


Seoul

Official Name: Seoul Metropolitan City

Area: 605.52㎢

Popluation: app. 10.3 mil

GRDP/head (nominal): app. 14,700 USD (2003, Seoul only)

Wards: Dobong, Dongdaemun, Dongjak, Eunpyeong, Gangbuk, Gangdong, Gangnam, Gangseo, Geumcheon, Guro, Gwanak, Gwangjin, Jongno, Jung, Jungnang, Mapo, Nowon, Seocho, Seodaemun, Seongbuk, Seongdong, Songpa, Yangcheon, Yeongdeungpo, Yongsan

Metropolitan Area: forms the Capital Metropolitan Area with Incheon Metropolitan City and Gyeonggi Province

Area: 11,686 km2

Population: app. 22 mil

Major Cities in CPA

(1) Incheon (entire city/urban area)--964.53 sq. km/389.15 sq. km, 2.54 mil/2.46 mil
(2) Suwon--121 sq. km, 1.03 mil
(3) Seongnam--142 sq. km, 0.95 mil
(4) Bucheon--53. 44 sq. km, 0.84 mil
(5) Goyang--267. 29 sq. km, 0.80 mil
(6) Ansan-- 144.92 ㎢, 0.62 mil
(7) Anyang--58.52 sq. km, 0.60 mil
(8) Yongin--592 sq. km, 0.55 mil

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Damn it took like 40 min for 2 cities. :sleepy:
Can any one do this for the rest of us? Post some info on your own cities...

only 14700?? korea's average 2005 gdp will be 16900 according to the measurement of bank of korea.. but how come seoul is lower than average?? it would be more than 18000 though

Because its larger, more important and its the Largest city in a Larger, more important Country.

that's right

']globally

new york
london
paris
l.a
king kong
tokyo
sidney
frankfurt
chicago
melbourne


asia

tokyo
king kong
shangai
singapur city
beijing
nagoya
taipei
kobe
beijing
jakarta



lol..

"1:New York
2:London
3:Tokyo
4:Los Angeles
5:Paris
6:Hong Kong
7:Chicago
8:Toronto
9:Shanghai
10:Sydney"

LA in the top 4?

I'd say LA is more influential, but Paris still needs to be in the top 4--It's too beautiful not to be,

2001
...the GTA consists of 25 municipalities and four regions in a total area of over 7,000 square kilometers with a population of 5 million. With a work force of approximately 2.9 million people, more than 100,000 companies and a US $109 billion gross domestic product, the GTA is Canada's undisputed business and manufacturing capital.


This is god damn small.

^ That is just GTA though, there is also an economic region centered around Toronto called the Golden Horseshoe which is more like +8 million pop, dont know GDP. I'd get into it more but it would probably confuse the hell out of you. You can read abit about it here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Golden_Horsehoe

One interesting direct quote.
with a population of over 8 million people. It has now surpassed Detroit as the automotive capital of North America.

']

australia and the pacific

melbourne
sidney
auckland
brisbane
perth
wellington
gold coast
adelaide
christchurch
townsville

Townsville before Newcastle, Wollongong, or Hobart?

Townsville before Newcastle, Wollongong, or Hobart?

yeah...you're right.....mistaken, i'd say hobart is even more important than christchurch......lets not forget "the cadbury chocolates"

i'll edit :)

lol..

"1:New York
2:London
3:Tokyo
4:Los Angeles
5:Paris
6:Hong Kong
7:Chicago
8:Toronto
9:Shanghai
10:Sydney"

LA in the top 4?

yeah, youre right......los angeles is rather important just because of hollywood, though paris is the world's fashion and elegance capital, the love capital etc. you name it

^ That is just GTA though, there is also an economic region centered around Toronto called the Golden Horseshoe which is more like +8 million pop, dont know GDP. I'd get into it more but it would probably confuse the hell out of you. You can read abit about it here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Golden_Horsehoe

One interesting direct quote.
with a population of over 8 million people. It has now surpassed Detroit as the automotive capital of North America.

110 bil for 6 mil. So it would be about 140~160 bil for 8 mil. As I said, the GDP or HK, Osaka, and Seoul is about 160~170 bil (metro not included). If Toronto can be in Top 10, I think there is no reason that Madrid, Frankfurt, Buenos Ires, and Rome are not in Top 10.

5-10
should include Frankfurt and Moscow representing Europe, perhaps Istanbul as the Eurasian bridge.
In terms of households european cities, like Frankfurt, equal to many cities with much more inhabitants, in say US or China.
Caïro would represent both the Middle East and parts of Africa. In India it'd be hard. Some places boom while others are already vastly populated.

Frankfurt:
#1 financial city in global economy #3
holds huge politico-financial power, unlike London which only holds (huge) financial power, yet a political minnow. We just don't care who decides what at number ten and down street, people in Iraq or on Las Malvinas are prone to suffer. But if people working in Frankfurt change their minds, a majority of the largest economies will be effected.

Frankfurt:
#1 financial city in global economy #3
holds huge politico-financial power, unlike London which only holds (huge) financial power, yet a political minnow. We just don't care who decides what at number ten and down street, people in Iraq or on Las Malvinas are prone to suffer. But if people working in Frankfurt change their minds, a majority of the largest economies will be effected.

Show us some supporting evidences in population, economy, cultural infrastructure, transportations, etc. etc.

Wait a minute, all along I was thinking that Mumbai is still not exactly in the big league. But after seeing the numbers put up by the forumers, I am having doubts.
Mumbai contributes 5% of Indian GDP and 33% of the tax collections in India. India's current economic size is $3.2 trillion. According to that Mumbai's GDP to $ 180 billion. This looks like a huge figure. And take into account Bollywood, a huge cultural influence, and the cosmopolitan nature of the city, it easily deserves a place in the top 10. It has around 149 km of tracks dedicated to suburban services.
http://urbanrail.net/as/mumb/mumbai-map.gif

Yes there are huge slums,squalor, poverty too in Mumbai, but also remember that it is THE corporate powerhouse of India. Almost ALL the major banks, companies(except the IT ones) have thier headquarters in Mumbai.So the figure of 180 billion does not look that bad.

So I believe that Mumbai should be in top 10.

Here's my list and HOW I came up with it.

Moscow........Capitol and financial centre of probably the world's most second powerful nation.

Hong Kong.....world financial centre and now centre of immerging Chinese Economy.

Milan............financial centre of large G7 economy, major stock exchange.

LosAngelos....large ,prosperous economy and most culturally influential city on the planet.

Toronto........8th largest stock exchange, large financial city of a G7 country.

SaoPaulo......economic centre of large emerging economy and geopol capitol of LatinAmerica

Seoul...........GeoPol centre of large emerging economy

Frankfurt......Gateway to Europe re airtravel, massive stockexchange, economic centre of .....industrial world's 3rd largest economy.

Madrid.........Financial, Geo/Pol capitol of influencial EU nation and influence in LatinAmerica.

Sorry Sydney.....smaller city than Toronto in 50% smaller economy and smaller stock exchange in a non G7 country.
Sorry Singapore....small citystate with important regional economic influence but not up to other cities economically or politically.

^^^^^^^^^^^^
Of all the world cities I have mentioned there are 2 which have incredible influence on this planet in terms of its geo/pol situation:

Washington..........obvious reasons.
Jeruselum............ so much of this planets foreign policy, security, are dependent on what goes on it this economically insignificant economy. Centre of 3 of the world's largest faiths......Judaism,Christianity,Islam

HAHHAH, I serously cant believe Islamabad isnt in any of your lists, firstly Karachi is better than India's best cities. and Islamabad is regarded by many as, better than Europe Infrastructure i.e. roads building poverty etc. and Islamabad is also regarded as being the 2nd best place for natural things! so i rank Islamabad top in ATLEAST Asia...ill post some pics...
Is that why Mumbai has a higher GDP PPP than Karachi, lahore and islamabad combined?

Mumbai is definatly on top 10. Almost 200 Dollar GDP PPP. It cant be ignored.

Can you tell me why you rate Toronto and Sydney higher than Milan and Madrid, althoughtalian and spanish economies are bigger than Canadian and Australian.

Wait a minute, all along I was thinking that Mumbai is still not exactly in the big league. But after seeing the numbers put up by the forumers, I am having doubts.
Mumbai contributes 5% of Indian GDP and 33% of the tax collections in India. India's current economic size is $3.2 trillion. According to that Mumbai's GDP to $ 180 billion. This looks like a huge figure. And take into account Bollywood, a huge cultural influence, and the cosmopolitan nature of the city, it easily deserves a place in the top 10. It has around 149 km of tracks dedicated to suburban services.


Yes there are huge slums,squalor, poverty too in Mumbai, but also remember that it is THE corporate powerhouse of India. Almost ALL the major banks, companies(except the IT ones) have thier headquarters in Mumbai.So the figure of 180 billion does not look that bad.

So I believe that Mumbai should be in top 10.

You're tallking about GDP PPP. And 'we' are talking about GDP nominal.

Can you tell me why you rate Toronto and Sydney higher than Milan and Madrid, althoughtalian and spanish economies are bigger than Canadian and Australian.

I truely believe that if Toronto and Sydney are in Top 10, Rome, Madrid, Milan, and Frankfurt must be in Top 10 as well. And Miland is truely the most properous city in Europe, and its size is big enough to be in Top 10. Culture? No doubt.

1. London
2. New York
3. Tokyo
4. Paris
5. Hong Kong
6. Toronto
7. Shanghai
8. Mexico City
9. Sydney
10. Sao Paulo/Seoul

1. New York City
2. London
3. Tokyo
4. Paris
5. Hong Kong
6. Toronto
7. Chicago
8. Shanghai
9. Seoul
10. Sao Paulo

I thought about putting LA at #7 for a minute there, based on its cultural influence, but decided against it.

You're tallking about GDP PPP. And 'we' are talking about GDP nominal.

Yeah I realised it later. Mumbai would still be a samll city for some time :(. But hopefully it will catch up sonner than later.

Could European forumers please offer the info of European cities? I think we need the info of Manchester, Birmingham, Madrid, Barcelona, Frankfurt, Berlin, Rome, Milan, Saint Petersburg, Moscow, and Istanbul.

Not much point in considering other UK cities, as they are just too small on their own to be even worth considering, even though we do have a lot of them.

For example, taken from the Manchester City Council website:

Manchester is the commercial, financial, educational and cultural capital of the UK's largest economic region outside London. The city that pioneered free trade, economic liberalism and the Co-operative movement is now an international city-region of some 2.57 million people.

The Greater Manchester metropolitan area covers 1,286 square kilometres of land. The conurbation is made up of the two cities of Manchester and Salford, and the metropolitan boroughs of Bolton, Bury, Oldham, Rochdale, Stockport, Tameside, Trafford and Wigan.

In its own right, it is a large consumer and business market, containing 998,000 households, with a workforce of 1,190,000 people and a GDP of £28 billion. But as a regional capital, Manchester stands at the centre of the North West, an area with seven million residents and 2.5 million households with an annual disposable income of £43 billion and a GDP of £76 billion. The region is also home to over 157,000 companies and businesses. It is well placed to reach markets further afield as over twenty million of the UK's population live within two hours driving time of the city.

if countries nowadays are compared mostly on gdp(ppp) basis why not cities?

bombay is also culturally probably the most powerful in the asia/africa region. bollywood is big everywhere from nigeria to siberia. the only comparable industry would be hollywood

1. New York City
2. Tokyo
3. London
4. Los Angeles
5. Paris
6. Hongkong
7. Seoul
8. Osaka
9. Frankfurt
10. Chicago

I think people tend to select other cities because they are the biggest of their countries, but are small potatoes compared to these cities.

San Francisco,Chicago,San Diego,Montreal,Toronto,Vancouver,Sydney

Sorry much smaller and less important.

The cities that IMO could pretend to top 10:

Europe: Milan, Madrid, Moscow, Frankfurt -all financial centres of billion+ economies (although Russia is billion+ only in PPP terms)

Asia: Hong Kong, Shanghai -financial centres of China, Singapore- financial center of SE Asia, Seoul -financial center of Korea

Australia - Sydney (but i doubt if australian economy is large enough + Australia has other big cities like Melbourne, which surely take some of Sydney's share)

North America - Toronto (the same thing as with Australia) Chicago, Los Angeles, Mexico City (but is Mexico important enough?)

South America - Sao Paulo

Cities I don't think should be in top 10:
Istanbul, Buenos Aires, Jakarta, Bangkok, Johannesburg -these cities may be big, but the economies they are center of, are not as powerful to push them into top 10.

Mumbai -India is 4th bigger economy in PPP terms, but it is damn poor. I'm not sure also, how big role plays Mumbai in Indian economy.

Rome, Berlin, Rio de Janeiro -great political and/or cultural centres, but lack economical power.Finally i would rank these cities like:

Economical importance:
5. Frankfurt
6. Hong Kong
7. Chicago
8 Los Angeles
9. Milan
10. Moscow

closest to top 10: Madrid, Seul, Toronto, Sao Paulo

City "grandeur" or cities most deserving "great city" title (economy, culture, architecture, infrastructure and population)

5. Hong Kong
6 Chicago
7. Seul
8. Los Angeles
9. Madrid
10. Berlin

closest: Moscow, Toronto, Sydney, Milan, Rome, Sao Paulo

Mumbai -India is 4th bigger economy in PPP terms, but it is damn poor. I'm not sure also, how big role plays Mumbai in Indian economy

over 40% of india's tax collections (corporate, income, customs duty, etc), two stock exchanges that make up more than 95% of market capitalisation in india, most banking, all financial services. bombay is also india's biggest industrial, entertainment and media centre. till the early 90s 1/3rd of india's industries were in bombay making everything from lace to cars. india's biggest trading post, busiest container port, airport, etc. in the top 3 in terms of IT, probably the largest pharma centre. india's largest oilfield is bombay high. some very big refineries, automobile industries (though now much reduced). then the reason for this forum of course, the contruction industry. largest urban market

its gdp is more than 5% of india's. in PPP terms that is $180-200 billion

or

buff...some people writting Rome or Sydney ahead of Madrid...And Seoul ahead of Frankfurt...

It's ALLIIIIVVEEE!

You can have a day in the brig, Handsome. :)