Europeans call them trams but in most of N.A. anything on a track is either considered rapid transit LightRail, subway, or commuter.
Are there any true Tram rapid transit systems in Europe like Dallas DART or Calgary's CTrain? Large subway size stations, limited stops, own guideway, exclusive ROW, trains that joined like subways not just articulated, entre thru the back or front, total accessibility, ussually with their own tunnels and/or bridges. In other words, much like a subway but atgrade with light rail not heavy.
Any examples, or anywhere in the world for that matter?

Yeah, Europe has shit loads of light rail. Especially in Germany, which has many characteristics as the system you are describing.

I figured there had to be some its just most times you see European trams they are more like inner city work horses as opposed to rapid transit here in N.A. {exc SF, TOR}.

OK, I think I understand your question a little bit better now. You are right, for the most part, light rail in Europe and North America tends to operate differently. In N.A., unfortunately, light rail often is the only form of rail-based rapid transit. So, emphasis is placed on getting as many people as possible living pretty far apart (relative to European cities at least) around as quickly as possible. So, you have fewer stations that allow for light rail to travel quickly.

However, I would guess that most major European cities like Barcelona, for example, do not need to have such lightrail systems. They have a well developed rail network that includes light rail, metro, suburban trains, regional trains, and long distance trains. If you want to travel fast in barcelona, you do no take light rail.

I think that the only cities that meet the American standard of light rail tend to be smaller cities that lack their own metro or suburban network, as typically is found in German cities, not surprising since Germany has very few large cities. So, these "premetros" act like subway trains with more cars for example when they are traveling underground, make a lot of stops on the surface near the city center, but tend to go faster over longer distances like DART or other North American systems.

isnt tram called streetcar in NA?

^ In the past, yes. But now, light rail is used in order to make the transport system sound more modern, IMO.

^^^^^^^^I agrree

LRT is often more common in N.A. to cities that have had rapid transit for less than 30 years when the subways were no longer king of the hill due to their high costs. In many cities , especially in the US where downtown are often dead after 6 and cities more spread out they are often more helpful to suburbanites.
In Canada the two cities that have LRT are Calgary and Edmonton.......both in Alberta.
They serve all citisens both those in the burbs and those in the inner city and downtown. Calgary has many stations downtown and travel is FREE in the downtown core to help it become even more urban frendly. Edmonton's LRT is underground all thru the downtown all the way to U.Alberta
Becuase Canadian cities have far more urban dwellers and are vibrant day and night they have far better ridership than US systems{ especially Calgary} and more transit friendly neighbourhoods.

In Spain you can find light rail in Alacant, Barcelona, Bilbao and València. There are several other cities with light rail U/C: Sevilla, Madrid, A Coruña, Santa Cruz de Tenerife and Vélez-Málaga. Several others have projects, such as Málaga, Cádiz, Granada, Zaragoza, Vigo, Donostia, Gasteiz or Tarragona.

There is much confusion about the term "light rail". Modern tram systems in the UK are usually called light rail, while similar systems in France are just called tram.

Traditionally, a tram was a rail vehicle traveling mostly on streets, with boarding from floor level. Light rail was something in between tram and train: pretty similar to a tram, but running on its own right of way, with high platforms. Many examples of these systems can be found in Germany as Stadtbahn (or U-Bahn when traveling underground).

Examples:

Traditional tram:
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/nl/trams/Amsterdam/8G/gvb778.jpg

"Classic" light rail system, very similar to German "Stadtbahn":
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/nl/trams/Utrecht/utr1.jpg

Nowadays, the difference between these two systems is fading. On one hand, tram systems get more and more their own right of way. On the other hand, light rail systems nowadays often have low floor vehicles, which means that high platforms are not needed anymore.

So you got these systems with low floor vehicles, running mostly on their right of way, but some street running in city centers. Systems like the Croydon Tramlink, like the system in Lyon, etc. These systems are often pretty similar to new light rail systems in the US, except that they are usually a bit more tram-like, especially the stops are usually a bit more simple.

For example: Croydon Tramlink. Is it light rail...
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gb/trams/Croydon/UK25Am.jpg

...or a tram?
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gb/trams/Croydon/UKCROY1.jpg

One specific type of light rail is the tram-train, which are tram / light rail vehicles running on mainline railways. These can be found in Karlsruhe, Saarbrucken and a few other places. This kind of light rail cannot be found in America, due to safety regulations.

Example: light rail vehicle running on mainline railway:

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/trams/Karlsruhe/GT8-100D/849-867/avg863_e0015233.jpg

So, to answer your question: yes, light rail systems like US systems can be found in many places in Europe, though usually a bit more tram-style than in the US.

I think that the only cities that meet the American standard of light rail tend to be smaller cities that lack their own metro or suburban network, as typically is found in German cities, not surprising since Germany has very few large cities. So, these "premetros" act like subway trains with more cars for example when they are traveling underground, make a lot of stops on the surface near the city center, but tend to go faster over longer distances like DART or other North American systems.

Actually, that is really a misconception that German cities are small. The main reason for this is that in most cases, German cities are described by their city proper populations, and not their metro's. You would find that German metropolitan area's are not too bad in size. They are often made up of polycentric or multiple cities that are very close to each other and joined together, but again, this is not all that dissimilar to many cities in the U.S. (Seattle/Tacoma, Bay Area, Dallas Ft.Worth, Minneapolis/St.Paul etc etc)

The list below compiles metropolitan area populations, and the type of rail infrastructure the city may have. There could be multiple networks within the metro, for example, Frankfurt's Rhein Main has three seperate tram networks in the citys of Frankfurt, Mainz and Darmstadt, connected to each other by S-bahn (short distance commuter rail) with a U-bahn/Light Rail in Frankfurt (and surrounding suburbs).

A Tram as described below, is a line/network that is predominantly sharing the street with cars and other traffic. It may still go underground in the city, as it may also have divided sections fully seperated from road traffic, but it's mainly sharing with street traffic.

An U-bahn is generally a fully seperated metro network. In some cases, it may come above ground and turn into a light rail network (similar to the light rail you may find in the U.S.) however, if just U-bahn is stated, it is mainly or exclusively a fully seperated metro network.

If it is described as U-bahn/Light Rail, then a good deal of the network operates like a Light Rail network. It may have fully metro style lines which are totally underground and resemble the metro in say Paris, but it may also have other lines which extensively travel above ground like a Light Rail is expected.

A Light Rail is typically a line that operates like the Light Rails would in the U.S. However, in smaller parts they may also travel like trams. To be described as Light Rail, the majority of the network operates as such.

Commuter Rail mentioned below is in almost all cases, divided into S-bahn and R-bahn's. S-bahn's are similar to the RER in Paris (Crossrail) where trains that generally stop at all stations pass from the suburbs, through the city underground where it looks almost like a metro, and then continues out the other side to the suburbs. They are generally for short distances in the metropolitan area. The R-bahns can connect fully seperate cities and metropolitan area's, but within a metropolitan area they are used as an express commuter train.

Rhein/Ruhr: 12million (Tram + part U-bahn/light Rail + commuter rail)
Frankfurt (Rhein/Main): 4.9million (Tram + U-bahn + Light Rail + commuter rail)
Berlin: 4.3million (Tram + full u-bahn + commuter rail)
Hamburg: 3.5million (full u-bahn (combined U-bahn & elevated) + commuter rail)
Munich: 3million (Tram + full U-bahn + commuter rail)
Leipzig/Halle: 2.5million (Tram + Commuter Rail)
Stuttgart: 2.5million (Tram + Light Rail + commuter rail)
Mannheim (Rhein/Neckar): 2.5million (Tram + Commuter Rail)
Hannover: 1.1million (Tram + Light Rail + Commuter)
Bremen 1.1million (Tram + Commuter Rail)
Dresden: 1million (Tram + Commuter Rail)
Nurnberg: 1million (Tram + full u-bahn + commuter rail)
Chemnitz - Zwickau: 1million (Tram +Commuter Rail)
Saarbrücken - Forbach: 1million (Tram +Commuter Rail)

There are plenty of Light Rail lines in Germany, but it really doesn't have anything to do with the populations of the cities (at least the metropolitan area's)

There are all kinds of trams and light rail lines and vehicles.
I try to divide them between regular tram/streetcar and rapid transit light rail .
The LRT have their own ROW and stations much like subway stations. Huge platforms , covered stations and accessible, not justa stop.
The platform/station are ATLEAST half the size of a subway station.
So we are on the same wavelength.
See members.shaw.ca/lrtincalgary/ as an example

It sounds like Porto's new system will be LRT like Calgary's CTrain.

Oporto new sistem is a ligthrail but with some underground stations!!

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y198/obelix1/oportotram.jpg

Don't forget about the Docklands Light Railway in London, with more than 30 kilometers built or under construction.

Sounds a lot like the Ctrain. A couple short tunnels but also has own bridges. Complet at grade but with own ROW and no lights except thru downtown and even there has own LRT/Bus only street.
Ctrian uses Seimens Trains.

Don't forget about the Docklands Light Railway in London, with more than 30 kilometers built or under construction.

Docklands Light Rail is a bit of a special case, it's more like a mix between metro and light rail. The cars are pretty similar to some other light rail systems, but the lines are completely grade seperated like a metro. Perhaps the term "light metro" would be fitting for this one.

That's exactly what the CTrain is, total grade separation, its own railways, it doesn't run down the middle of the road. The trains are like a subway station.

We have some tram/rail hybrids in Switzerland, you could call them light rail aswell.

Ya, that seem to be the way they are described especially in NA.
Regular streetcars/trrams are called that but when it becomes a true fullfledged rapid transit system then they are ussually refered to as LRT.

Athens has three metro lines and one light rail line. The light rail line is officially referred to as a tram; however, it better fits the description of a light rail system. It does not share traffic lanes with motor vehicles. It has an inland leg along which it operates in the median of a street and it has a shoreline leg along which it operates on the beach side of a major street:

http://olympics.greece.com/images/tram_map_athens.gif

The vehicles are quite stylish. They are the Sirio model produced by Ansaldobreda. They are 100% low floor. They have a maximum operating speed of 70 km/h (43.5 mph), which is probably appropriate for the corridor in which they operate:

http://linuxweb.internet.gr/tramsa/media/common/photos/oxima/oxima/oxima_fotografies0_1.jpg

The line attracts about 35,000 riders per day, which would be excellent by US standards; however, it is well below the initial expectation of 80,000. Critics complain that the service is slow and there have been many accidents.

For more information, see the following websites:
http://linuxweb.internet.gr/tramsa/html/en/index.php
http://www.ansaldobreda.com/eng/files/prodotti.asp?id_prodotto=52
http://www.athens-today.com/e-tram.htm

We have some tram/rail hybrids in Switzerland, you could call them light rail aswell.

Yes, Switzerland has some nice systems that are somewhere in between train and tram.

Most European countries had these kind of systems (interlocal trams, local railways, etc), but most were closed in the 50s, 60s and 70s....except for Switzerland, where a lot of them were kept in use. And now light rail is advocated as something revolutionary and innovative, while Switzerland shows that they've had these systems for a long long time already....

Manchester has LRT system called Metrolink. The hybrid vehicles travel at 30mph through streets in the city centre, and then speed up to 50mph on the suburban stretches which are converted railway tracks.

http://www.lang.nagoya-u.ac.jp/~matsuoka/GIF-Man-Metrolink.jpg

http://world.nycsubway.org/img/logo/title-manchester.jpg

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/caroline.mathews/ML2002a.jpg

Plans for network expansion:

http://www.gmpte.com/images/metmap.gif

It's a good system - very popular, though in need of expansion and investment to improve capacity on the vastly oversubscribed Bury and Altrincham line.

The Docklands Light Railway in East London runs on its own dedicated tracks - some of which are underground and connect to the tube/subway, other parts have dedicated tracks that run alongside mainline railway allowing interchange whilst most of the tracks run on elevated street platforms.

Operation is driverless and new 3-carriage trains (at the moment trains only have 2 carriages) have been ordered. In Europe light rail that goes on-street "Tram" cannot exceed 2 carriages and must have drivers. Some of the Docklands light railway carriages were used to test the Manchester Metrolink Light Rail (see above) so the systems (rails) are technically very similar - however, the Metrolink would be prohibited to have 3 carriages or run automatically because parts of it run on street.

Look of New Train at BANK underground subway interchange.
http://www.bombardier.com/en/1_0/ml/4419/2_050504_Docklands_New+concepLowRes.jpg

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/about/report-library/annual-reports/2003/media/photo-docklands-mid.jpg

http://home.arcor.de/souvenirs/gb/4497a.jpg

http://www.skmconsulting.com/allaire/spectra/system/mediastore/Docklands_Light_Railway.gif

http://www.collectionspicturelibrary.com/lb-nh-e14-2a-4.jpg

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/tabitabi/train/lon2002.10-2.01.jpg

In Europe light rail that goes on-street "Tram" cannot exceed 2 carriages

It sure can! :)

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/trams/Hannover/2500/srh01239.jpg

(very long "Stadtbahn" for the Cebit fair in Hannover)

BTW, Docklands Light Rail is not really comparable to other light rail systems mentioned in this thread. The systems in this thread are more the "modern kind of tram" thing, running on their own right of way, but still having level crossings and sometimes running through pedestrian areas in city centres. The DLR is more like a "light metro", because it is completely seperated from all other traffic.

^ that is AWESOME!

Another pic of such a long tram, this time on street tracks:

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/trams/Hannover/2000/srh01240.jpg

Rah that is huge!!

I'm sure there is some EU regulation about the limit of the length a tram can be. Maybe it was just some british legislation that I've generalised.

Those so long trams are dangerous inside city centres!!
:(

Athens:

http://img174.echo.cx/img174/7398/21jul1879918tramp7wu.jpg

http://img170.echo.cx/img170/1787/508236xa.jpg

http://img177.echo.cx/img177/1774/21jul1882218tramp5rj.jpg

I'm sure there is some EU regulation about the limit of the length a tram can be. Maybe it was just some british legislation that I've generalised.

Well, trams like I showed in the pics are usually also prohibited in Germany. But for transporting crowds to the Cebit fair, the transport company gets a waiver to run longer trams.

yes, between a city like alphen a/d rijn and gouda in the netherlands

In the Netherlands, Amsterdam, Rotterdam and The Hague have classic tram networks. New tram lines in this city are more like light rail, mostly on their own right of way.

Between Utrecht and Nieuwegein there is a "sneltram" (fast tram) line that is very similar to Stadtbahn networks in Germany and could also be condidered light rail.

New light rail projects in the Netherlands are Randstadrail (rebuilt of current heavy rail lines between Rotterdam, The Hague and Zoetermeer) and indeed the before mentioned line between Alphen aan de Rijn and Gouda. That last one is interesting, because it is a "tram/train" network, where light rail vehicles share tracks with heavy rail vehicles.

Light rail vehicle in the heavy rail station of Gouda. The vehicle is similar to vehicles on the tram networks in Stockholm and Istanbul.

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/nl/trams/Gouda/GD0000.jpg

On the Dutch forum I also found a pic of the IJtram in Amsterdam, a new line built to light rail standards. They're now test driving on this line, it should open at the end of this month.

http://img96.echo.cx/img96/3225/tnp51715083lp.jpg

The Forchbahn is one example of a swiss train that uses Tram tracks inside of the city.

It was build 1912, so "Light Rail" is really not a new Idea.

The Forchbahn connects Zürich Stadelhofen with Esslingen (via Forch hence it's name)

http://www.ysebahn.ch/vorbild/bahnen/fb/be88.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/ch/narrow_gauge/FB/fb19990929.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/ch/narrow_gauge/FB/fb19990931.jpg
http://www.reissweb.net/images/am2066g.jpg

As you can see it also exceeds 2 carriages!

You are right, LRT is not a new idea but it seems to be having a true rennasaince. Most tram lines in NA were torn up to make way for buses in the 1950s {thank you GM} but are coming back. They can be as fast as a subway/metro but not with the massive tunneling costs.
The Docklands line in London looks much like the SRT in Toronto and the Vancouver SkyTrain.

You are right, LRT is not a new idea but it seems to be having a true rennasaince. Most tram lines in NA were torn up to make way for buses in the 1950s {thank you GM} but are coming back. They can be as fast as a subway/metro but not with the massive tunneling costs.
The Docklands line in London looks much like the SRT in Toronto and the Vancouver SkyTrain.

Not all LRT lines are equal. Some are in their own right-of-way and are as fast as a metro. Others are on the street and are as slow as a bus.

^^^^^^^^^^Very true.
Toronto's streetcars {or what Europeans would call trams} are no faster than a bus but Calagary's CTrain is a rapid transit systems as fast as any subway.

Here are some more pictures of Dutch light rail.

Between Amsterdam and Amstelveen you can find both streetcars and Metro's on a lightrail like route. Due to the difference in floor level every station has two platforms.

http://images.fotopic.net/y8c8cw.jpg


http://images.fotopic.net/y8c8aa.jpg

For more picture click here (http://gallery18937.fotopic.net/c478452.html)

Regards

Wouter

Between Utrecht en Nieuwegein/IJsselstijn there is a light rial connection run by Connexxion.

Here you see a car in the first livery (early 80s)

http://images.fotopic.net/yyp6bn.jpg

This is how thes cars look today

http://images.fotopic.net/y3yx8m.jpg

Regards

Wouter

These Diesel Lint41 cars are also called light rail by there owner Syntus. During rush-hour they run a 15 minutes service between Doetinchem and Arnhem (together with former coaches of the Dutch Railways system. Syntus is very successful in revitalizing rural branch lines. There are good connections between light rail and bus.

http://images.fotopic.net/y351hc.jpg

http://images.fotopic.net/y351h8.jpg

http://images.fotopic.net/y351gu.jpg

Click here (http://gallery18937.fotopic.net/c209636.html) for the other syntus pictures

Regards

Wouter

These Diesel Lint41 cars are also called light rail by there owner Syntus. During rush-hour they run a 15 minutes service between Doetinchem and Arnhem (together with former coaches of the Dutch Railways system. Syntus is very successful in revitalizing rural branch lines. There are good connections between light rail and bus.

http://images.fotopic.net/y351hc.jpg

http://images.fotopic.net/y351h8.jpg

Regards

Wouter

We do NOT call "light rail" those kind of trains in Spain...
:nono:

^^^ those look more like a commuter rail style train

We do NOT call "light rail" those kind of trains in Spain...

Right. The Netherlands is the only country where those kind of trains are called "light rail". Don't ask me why. :?

Those trains are in fact quite a bit lighter and cheaper than regular trains. But still, in size, speed and weight they are still much more like a regular train than like what light rail is called in most countries. Nowadays they are often called "light train" to differentiate them from light rail as it is known everywhere around the world.

But still many people in the Netherlands like to call it light rail...

In NA trams are ussually called streetcars. LRT is referred to LightRail rapid transit serving the same use as a subway. They arree for medium capacity.
Calgary's CTrain is amongst the best example and THE most successful.
LRT have own guideways, ussually serveral cars connected, entering thru any of the door, and have large subway like stations.

Yeah, but in contrast to subways, light rail can have at grade crossings with other traffic. So, it's like a mix between tram and train. And the border between tram and light rail is often very vague.

^^^^Not always, depends on how advanced the system is.
Calgary's CTrain runs entirely on its own track except in the downtown core. There is no conflict with traffic or stop lights.
When it gets downtown it has its own transit only road that it uses. Within 20 years the downtown section will be made into subway.
To avoid the roads/streets it uses its own tracks combined with a series of CTrain only bridges and tunnels to avoid any road traffic or level crossing.

Ok, I don't know CTrain... was talking about most of the systems. There are always exceptions of course.

^^^^^^^^^^^True.
Calgary's CTrain is an exceptional good rapid transit LRT system. One of the world's best. It already has 42km but by 2030 it will have 72 stations and 118km of track in a city at that time of about 1.6 to 1.8 million.
Ridership right now is exceptional..........220,000/day in a city of just 950,000.
There will be a complete downtown subway section of the LRT by 2023.
Calgary is a very fast growing, prosperous city in oil-rich Alberta, and has very forward thinking planning dept unlike Vancouver which made no transport plans and now is stuck having to build extremely expensive lines with few passengers as they did not save/create transit corridors and are now paying the price.

Check it out with its modern cars, full sized subway like stations which are completly accessible on their own ROW with bridges/tunnels.
www.members.shaw.ca/lrtincalgary/

^^^^Not always, depends on how advanced the system is.
Calgary's CTrain runs entirely on its own track except in the downtown core. There is no conflict with traffic or stop lights.
When it gets downtown it has its own transit only road that it uses. Within 20 years the downtown section will be made into subway.
To avoid the roads/streets it uses its own tracks combined with a series of CTrain only bridges and tunnels to avoid any road traffic or level crossing.

The C-Train has exclusive use of a downtown street; however, it still must contend with cross traffic at intersections:

http://members.shaw.ca/LRTinCalgary/CIT1.jpg

(The above picture is from the website: http://members.shaw.ca/LRTinCalgary/Index.html )

There is a section of downtown tunnel that was constructed but never put into service. There doesn't appear to be any plan to complete the tunnel through the downtown area due to the expense. Pictures of the unused tunnel segment can be viewed at the following website:

http://www.geocities.com/corrosionia/passages.html

"Does Europe have LightRail?"
:bash: I thought Europe invented the tramcar/light rail?

Ah, so CTrain is still much like most light rail systems, because it still has level crossings. Subway / metro systems are completely seperated from other traffic.

First, CTrain is only at grade with road intersection in the downtown core but thats it. Outside the downtown it is like a subway, total traffic separation. The downtown stretch will be a subway tunnel within 20 years.

Second, when I said LightRail I meant the rapid transit form not just regular street trams in Europe.

First, CTrain is only at grade with road intersection in the downtown core but thats it. Outside the downtown it is like a subway, total traffic separation. The downtown stretch will be a subway tunnel within 20 years.

Second, when I said LightRail I meant the rapid transit form not just regular street trams in Europe.

Quite strange...
:eek:

the first thing I thought when I saw this thread was is that a serious question lol.

wow old bump

Vancouver's skytrain is an LRT ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANTDkfkoBaI

Docklands Light Rail is a bit of a special case, it's more like a mix between metro and light rail. The cars are pretty similar to some other light rail systems, but the lines are completely grade seperated like a metro. Perhaps the term "light metro" would be fitting for this one.

In North-Rhine Westfalia this is called Stadtbahn or Full-Stadtbahn.

The line attracts about 35,000 riders per day, which would be excellent by US standards; however, it is well below the initial expectation of 80,000. Critics complain that the service is slow and there have been many accidents.


Yeah you're right, but i read once (don't remember where) that the tram is now used by about 50'000 to 60'000 people a day...35'000 was about 2004/05. But you're right, it's too slow, but necessary for the Nea Smyrni area.

First, CTrain is only at grade with road intersection in the downtown core but thats it. Outside the downtown it is like a subway, total traffic separation.

No, that is entirely incorrect. The C-Train has many level crossings outside of the downtown core. There are no in-street running sections outside of downtown, but there are several level crossings on each line outside the core.

^^^^^^^^^^^True.
Calgary's CTrain is an exceptional good rapid transit LRT system. One of the world's best. It already has 42km but by 2030 it will have 72 stations and 118km of track in a city at that time of about 1.6 to 1.8 million.
Ridership right now is exceptional..........220,000/day in a city of just 950,000.
There will be a complete downtown subway section of the LRT by 2023.
Calgary is a very fast growing, prosperous city in oil-rich Alberta, and has very forward thinking planning dept unlike Vancouver which made no transport plans and now is stuck having to build extremely expensive lines with few passengers as they did not save/create transit corridors and are now paying the price.

Check it out with its modern cars, full sized subway like stations which are completly accessible on their own ROW with bridges/tunnels.
www.members.shaw.ca/lrtincalgary/

Not really a fair statement. Vancouver is a much more expensive place to build LRT because it's a bigger city with more geographical constraints. It also doesn't have a highway to run parallel to.

Don't get me wrong, CTrain is a great system, but saying another city isn't forward thinking because they didn't save or create transit corridors is a little strange, considering the SkyTrain is actually built in an old interurban corridor.

One of the guiding principles of a Subway is that it doesn't share its roadway and it has its own ROW. Calgary's C Train doesn't have many crossings outside of downtown because it runs parallel or in the median of major highway-grade roads with limited crossings. It's not that difficult to save a rail corridor when you're planning on running beside an urban highway.

Vancouver's stations could scarce be compared to a Subway stations, so I don't know how you could compare something that is closer to a large sheltered bus stop "subway-like". There are some very nice stations in Calgary, but I don't know about "Subway-like"

I'm not trying to slam Calgary here. I think one of the hallmarks of Calgary's system is its ridership. It has benefited greatly from having a concentrated work force downtown and a city council that makes parking and driving as inconvenient and expensive as possible, while making public transit accessible and convenient. The fact that they have large park and rides outside the city appeals to many who would probably drive otherwise. It's remarkable that Calgary's ridership is so high, when you consider the population and the relatively easy road access the city has. Saying that, surely if Vancouver can choose to build underground for its new line, surely oil-rich Calgary can afford to bury the CTrain downtown sooner than 2023.

Expensive or not, not burying the C-Train could be considered a planning mistake. However, I choose a more positive view... that not burying it was great at the time, but the C-Train became a victim of its own success.

As for Europe, I think Calgary-style LRT wouldn't work well in European cities. They simple don't have the ROWs that were built for cars that younger cities have, so surface rail is slow and reserved for shorter trips.

The city transport on rail is called Tramway.

So exists a name for this transport

why the americans invented such stupid names as Streetcar, Trolley, Light Rail

it's simply stupid cause almost every light rail gos on streets too then on seperate rail then Why it's called light rail havy rail middle rail very havy rail that's simply stupid



for exmple you call a car when you use it on streets and when you use it on highways you call it traffic car or transit car???


simply very stupid

the names.


Streetcar (the most stupid one)
Trolley (why when trolley is a carrige)
Light rail (try to pull if it's so light)




There is only Tramway and it was called so.
Tramways run on separate rails in city centers with traffic without traffic and it still is tramway.


buses run on streets and on separate bus rotes so why don';t we call then light bus or heavy bus??? os something other name?

Another pic of such a long tram, this time on street tracks:

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/trams/Hannover/2000/srh01240.jpg

Hardcore train.

Hardcore train.

Such long trains can be found in Düsseldorf – Stadtbahn Rhine-Ruhr – too.

The city transport on rail is called Tramway.

So exists a name for this transport

why the americans invented such stupid names as Streetcar, Trolley, Light Rail

it's simply stupid cause almost every light rail gos on streets too then on seperate rail then Why it's called light rail havy rail middle rail very havy rail that's simply stupid



for exmple you call a car when you use it on streets and when you use it on highways you call it traffic car or transit car???


simply very stupid

the names.


Streetcar (the most stupid one)
Trolley (why when trolley is a carrige)
Light rail (try to pull if it's so light)




There is only Tramway and it was called so.
Tramways run on separate rails in city centers with traffic without traffic and it still is tramway.


buses run on streets and on separate bus rotes so why don';t we call then light bus or heavy bus??? os something other name?

uhhh...

The term "Light Rail"(stadbahn) was coined in Europe to describe the advancement, and the evolution of the tramway into faster, more convenient service using larger vehicles running in their own ROW, be it surface, or underground.

Streetcar is what you call a "tram" Trolleys is primarily a Philly term, and outside of Philly "Trolleys" is reserved for Electric buses.

That's exactly what the CTrain is, total grade separation, its own railways, it doesn't run down the middle of the road. The trains are like a subway station.

Err - no. The C-train is not grade separated. The C-trains cross on level crossings at many locations and it runs in the middle of a road in downtown Calgary.

Vancouver Skytrain is grade separated - no level crossings for the obvious reason the trains are automated.

The term light rail is to broad

In France, I think you can consider the parisian T4 as a light rail system.
They tried to call it a "Tram/Train", but it is nothing less than a lighter train running on trains rails. There is the possibility in the future, though, to really run as a tram in the streets.
Pictures :

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/58/Gare_de_Bondy_03.jpg/280px-Gare_de_Bondy_03.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/98/U_25500_Villemomble_fr_01.jpg/180px-U_25500_Villemomble_fr_01.jpg

The term light rail is to broad

People like to use the term broadly, but it's not difficult to differentiate between a tram(streetcar) line, and a ful fledge light rail line, or even light rail metro.

it has too much...needs more heavy rail!

Yeah, Europe has shit loads of light rail. Especially in Germany, which has many characteristics as the system you are describing.

Lots
England - Trams (old style)
Blackpool - historical trams provide regular transit service from Starr Gate to Fleetwood

England - Trams (LRT)
Manchester - Metrolink
Sheffield - Supertram
Birmingham - West Midlands Tram
Nottingham - Trams
London - Croyden Tram Link

Scotland
Edinburgh - under construction

Germany
Frankfurt am Main - the U-Bahn routes are actually LRT (using the same technology as Edmonton and Calgary LRT - U2 cars)

Frankfurt U-bahn - U2 vehicle
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/U-Bahn_Frankfurt_Train_Type_U2.JPG

Edmonton LRT - U2 vehicle
http://www.urbanrail.net/am/edmo/Edmonton-LRT_train_in_University_Station.JPG

There are many many many other examples of light rail in Europe. Most cities have trams or LRT.

I think the WKD in Warsaw is a great example of Light Rail- It operates the south-western suburbs of Warsaw. The line is aprox. 30km long and consists around 30 stations. The travel time from Grodzisk Radońska to the Center of Warsaw is around 55 minutes.
The line was opened in 1926, and nowdays there are several plans of redeveloping the line (for ex. new train sets).

This is how the EN94 ('70) look like
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/EN94_WKD_Komorow_1.JPG/800px-EN94_WKD_Komorow_1.JPG

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b4/Wkd_schemat.svg/800px-Wkd_schemat.svg.png

more information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warszawska_Kolej_Dojazdowa

Lots
England - Trams (old style)
Blackpool - historical trams provide regular transit service from Starr Gate to Fleetwood

England - Trams (LRT)
Manchester - Metrolink
Sheffield - Supertram
Birmingham - West Midlands Tram
Nottingham - Trams
London - Croyden Tram Link

Scotland
Edinburgh - under construction

Germany
Frankfurt am Main - the U-Bahn routes are actually LRT (using the same technology as Edmonton and Calgary LRT - U2 cars)

There are many many many other examples of light rail in Europe. Most cities have trams or LRT.

Germany
Stuttgart Stadtbahn (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadtbahn_Stuttgart)
Hannover Stadtbahn (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadtbahn_Hannover)
Rhein-Ruhr Stadtbahn (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadtbahn_Rhein-Ruhr) (Essen (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadtbahn_Essen), Dortmund (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadtbahn_Dortmund), Duisburg (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadtbahn_Duisburg), Düsseldorf (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadtbahn_D%C3%BCsseldorf), Bochum (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadtbahn_Bochum), Mulheim all have their own light rail segments as well as extensive tram networks).
Stadtbahn Bielefeld (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadtbahn_Bielefeld)
Chemnitz Stadtbahn (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadtbahn_Chemnitz)
Rhein-Sieg Stadtbahn (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadtbahn_Rhein-Sieg) (Includes both Bonn (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadtbahn_Bonn) and Köln (Cologne) (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadtbahn_K%C3%B6ln)

Lots and lots of light rail here.

Stockholm has a single tram line (to be expanded within the next few years, with more to come as well) as well as light rail under the name Tvärbanan (which opened in 2002 and which will also be expanding quite soon).

[…]
Rhein-Ruhr Stadtbahn (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadtbahn_Rhein-Ruhr) (Essen (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadtbahn_Essen), Dortmund (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadtbahn_Dortmund), Duisberg (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadtbahn_Duisburg), Düsseldorf (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadtbahn_D%C3%BCsseldorf), Bochum (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadtbahn_Bochum), Mulheim all have their own light rail segments as well as extensive tram networks).
[…]

Not to forget Gelsenkirchen (Rhein-Ruhr) and Frankfurt/Main.

P. S.: It's Duisburg, not „Duisberg“! ;)

Gelsenkirchen (Germany, Ruhr area):

http://www.minister-achenbach.de/images/fotos/ruhrgebiet/Schalke-U-Bahn.JPG
http://www.thomas-hans.de/wp-content/uploads/dsc_4438.jpg
http://www.thomas-hans.de/wp-content/uploads/dsc_4449.jpg

Not to forget Gelsenkirchen (Rhein-Ruhr) and Frankfurt/Main.

P. S.: It's Duisburg, not „Duisberg“! ;)

Whoops! My bad, sorry! I always get my burg and berg confused with German city names. :lol:

I thought that Gelsenkirchen only had underground trams rather than a full stadtbahn system? Correct me if I'm wrong though.

[…]
I thought that Gelsenkirchen only had underground trams rather than a full stadtbahn system? Correct me if I'm wrong though.

It's difficult to draw a line between Stadtbahn and tram in the Ruhr area sometimes. There are no real underground tram sections like in Vienna for example, all underground sections are build according to the parameters of Stadtbahn Rhein-Ruhr. So sections used by tram are called Stadtbahnvorlaufverkehr, which means: Today the tram uses the Stadtbahn section but in future it will be used by Stadtbahn. In Gelsenkirchen there are such sections.