what would you consider the most run down city in america? show some pictures if possible.
i started a thread on the most run down city in canada on the canadian forum and i had lots of input, chech it out if you have time

I dunno, Akron OH?

rust belt cities are obvious choices. buffalo, detroit, cleveland, toledo, gary, and others certainly can be thrown into the mix.

Buffalo is run down? Buffalo is starting to grow. I really don't believe Buffalo should be consider as run down.

Buffalo is run down? Buffalo is starting to grow. I really don't believe Buffalo should be consider as run down.

Buffalo has some run-down areas but it definitely should not be mentioned anywhere in a thread that asks for the most run-down city in the US.

does anybody have pics of gary indiana?

There are plenty in the midwest that I can think of, but none of them are large cities. Smaller cities and towns tend to fall harder than larger ones.

Superior, Wisconsin comes to mind. But I'm sure there are plenty more that are just as bad and probably worse.

the ghetto in Chicago is pretty bad, and so is the 1 in Atlanta.

Camden,NJ.

Gary, IN.

Well if you say one city someone will get offended and say your wrong...but Im going to say Detroit cause compared to its hay-days its a place that needs love.

if 2000 people responded to this thread, it would be doubtful even one of them have been to most US cities or have a sense of what most are like.

That's not usually a problem in most threads. It is here.

The only thing that can come of a thread like this is that cities that don't deserve it are being pointed out in a way that would make the resident of any given one of them cringe.

Sometimes, our threads can, by nature, be just plain nasty (which does not mean the posters themselves are). IMHO, this one is.

Gary is a cakewalk compared to East St. Louis.

does anybody have pics of gary indiana?

Do you want to see downtown or bombed-out neighborhoods? This site is the best for the latter:

Urban Decay (http://www.angelfire.com/nv/207/)

Gary.

One of these threads, again? :)

small to medium sized rust belt cities seem to top the list...

Gary, IN
Camden, NJ
Chester, PA
East Saint Louis, IL
Youngtown, OH
Flint, MI

etc

personally, the worst neighborhood I've ever seen is probably east garfield park in Chicago, right around and under the el. Scary. Small neighborhoods like these could probably top cities listed above by themselves, but those cities above as a whole are shitty altogether, thus the rankings.

if 2000 people responded to this thread, it would be doubtful even one of them have been to most US cities or have a sense of what most are like.

That's not usually a problem in most threads. It is here.

The only thing that can come of a thread like this is that cities that don't deserve it are being pointed out in a way that would make the resident of any given one of them cringe.

Sometimes, our threads can, by nature, be just plain nasty (which does not mean the posters themselves are). IMHO, this one is.

im sorry if i cause any problems with people arguing about their towns, i dont live in the usa and i was just curious about some of these places so i guess all that i can say is be nice, dont be saying mean thing about places you havent been to. if this thread gets out of hand would a mod lock it or delete it.

Well if you say one city someone will get offended and say your wrong...but Im going to say Detroit cause compared to its hay-days its a place that needs love.
This is true, but Detroit is hardly the most run down.

In Michigan, we might say the city that has the largest percentage of itself rundown is Benton Harbor.

Detroit is hardly run down? Good one!

Detroit is hardly run down? Good one!

Nice job trying to twist his post, thats why i hate these types of threads. Read it again he said hardly the MOST rundown. Damn

Detroit is hardly run down? Good one!

Wow you are very observant. Try re-reading his post and paying attention next time. Then you won't sound so stupid when you twist someone's words around as if they were their own and then try and throw a sarcastic remark in afterwards like "good one!"

Oklahoma City since the city is basically a giant trailer park with 70s paint schemes

Oklahoma City since the city is basically a giant trailer park with 70s paint schemes


I dunno.. I guess mabye that is true but I always found the city quite nice when I used to go there to visit family about 2-3yrs ago.. They lived around the Penn Sq. Mall-Northwest Expressway area.

interesting. whats weird is that were going to rely on stereotypes to come up with cities. which isn't really bad cause their are some factual truths to these. Detroit has seen hard times, it may be better now, but with the media painting it as the most horrible place on earth who would think otherwise? for all you know San Diego could be a hell hole (though I know thats not true cause I live here imo). lets just speak our minds to see what comes up, i don't think this is bashing, just conversation.

the canadian version of this thread did alot better, no arguing about towns based on steryotypes and hometown bias

No Worldwide you guys argue over who has the best city Vancouver or Toronto.

Most run down city in America?
Maybe Newark NJ?

I was in Newark recently and things are looking so much better. I've seen much worse.

Most run down city in America?
Maybe Newark NJ?

Not Newark, but maybe Camden.

One of these threads, again? :)

seriously lol

One of these threads, again? :)

most run down city in america?
http://img70.echo.cx/img70/4550/napoleon1zp.jpg
"Like anyone could even know that, Napoleon."

interesting. whats weird is that were going to rely on stereotypes to come up with cities. which isn't really bad cause their are some factual truths to these. Detroit has seen hard times, it may be better now, but with the media painting it as the most horrible place on earth who would think otherwise? for all you know San Diego could be a hell hole (though I know thats not true cause I live here imo). lets just speak our minds to see what comes up, i don't think this is bashing, just conversation.

for all you know Detroit could be a hell hole (though I know thats not true cause I live here imo)

The people who think otherwise are the people smart enough to find out for themselves.

for all you know Detroit could be a hell hole (though I know thats not true cause I live here imo)

The people who think otherwise are the people smart enough to find out for themselves.

exactly. :)

No Worldwide you guys argue over who has the best city Vancouver or Toronto.

you havent seen the canadian version of this thread obviously, theres no mention of toronto or vancouver.

Many of the small american towns have a real bad problem with poverty and everything is run-down.. Escpecially the Eastern Parts of My home state of Kentucky!! YE-HAW

I dont like this thread.

^good for you.

^ Are you saying that to be smart?

^ Are you saying that to be smart?

It sounded like it.

^Correct! :colgate:

Whatever, I have no time to play games.

Whatever, I have no time to play games.

Kick his ass Sweetkisses

Kick his ass Sweetkisses
lol :)
Thats ok. One more ignorant comment and theyll be going to the ignore bin.

this is completley off topic, it should be deleted

this is completley off topic, it should be deleted

Dude, you're a little too anal about certain things aren't you? There have been 4 or 5 comments that are off topic out of 45 and you have to immediately be like "this should be deleted!" Are you telling me you've never gone off topic before? Chill out.

alright sorry, but its just going to get worse

Gary Indiana

alright sorry, but its just going to get worse

Think what you want. She said if he makes another ignorant comment then she will ignore him. So how is it going to get worse?

^I wouldn't mind :). And I don't think Gary Indiana is that bad (if thats what you want to hear...)

Sounds like the midwest is getting hit hard here.
I would think some areas of the oldest north east cities would get votes.

Not the entire city, but parts of:

Boston??
NY??
Philly??
Baltimore??
DC??

Since they are big and old, they've had time and money to do makeovers.
But in some parts--especially on the city edge--there's no sunshine.

I've been to many cities, and my vote has to go to Indy and Buffalo from just appearance. JMO.

anybody who says Gary has no idea what they are talking about.

It has a rapidly growing airport, casinos, a 40,000,000 dollar baseball stadium, a red-hot steel industry (pun intended) that is making record profits, and reviving neighborhoods such as Miller Beach.

Also, the crime rate is heading down and the population has stabilized.

here's a list of what the city is working on this year...


CITY PROJECTS - 2005

1. 15th and 25th Avenues Intersection Improvements
This project involves design work for signal interconnection and intersection improvements at various locations. The design work for these projects will be let for bid in early April, 2005.


2. University Park Academic Walk
This project involves construction of new lighting, traffic signals and a bike/walking trail on 35th Avenue from Pierce Street to Martin Luther King Drive. The work under this project will be bid out in Summer, 2005.


3. South Grant Street Improvement Project, Phase II
This project involves the reconstruction and widening of south Grant Street with curbs, gutters, decorative street lighting, sidewalks and the inclusion of a left-turn lane at the southbound intersections of 32nd, 33rd, 35th, 36th and 37th Avenues and similar turn lanes at the northbound intersections. The work will include new traffic signals, bus shelters and traffic monitoring equipment. This work will be let for bid in April, 2005.


4. East Ridge Road Improvements
This project involves the design work for street reconstruction, new traffic signalization and sidewalks along Ridge Road from Broadway to Mississippi Street. This design work should be let in June, 2005.


5. Infrastructure Improvements - City-Wide
Infrastructure improvements will continue city-wide with repaving, new sidewalks, new curbs and gutters, storm sewer upgrades, and crack sealing in the six Councilmatic districts of the city. It is anticipated that this work will be bid out in April, 2005 with bids being received in late May, 2005.


6. Renovation of Genesis Center Parking Garage
Renovations and repairs will be made to the parking structure adjacent to the Genesis Center. The work will include structural and cosmetic improvements. It is anticipated that this work will be bid out in Summer, 2005.


7. 5th Avenue Streetscaping
This project involves street-scaping work along 5th Avenue between the Genesis Center and the United States Steelyard. It is anticipated that this work will be bid out in Fall, 2005.


8. 25th Avenue Improvements
This project will involve road improvements in connection with the opening of businesses in the County Market Plaza. It is anticipated that this work will be bid out in Spring, 2005.



This project will involve the design work for the construction of a 30 mile natural resource corridor and multi-use trail ringing the City of Gary. It is anticipated that this design work will occur by the end of 2005.

9. Park Improvements
Improvements are anticipated to be made in Summer and Fall, 2005 at various park sites throughout the city, including the following:
* Renovation of Roosevelt Pavilion, with parking, playground and concession stand improvements;
* Renovation of Pittman Square Pavilion, with playground, splash pad and tennis court improvements;
* Renovation of Washington Park Pavilion, with bathhouse renovations, and parking, playground, softball field and basketball court improvements;
* Renovation of Pachter Park Pavilion, with repair of parking lot, and addition of picnic shelter, grills, and basketball court;
* Renovation of Borman Square Pavilion, with parking lot repair and provision of picnic shelters;
* Renovation of Westbrook Pavilion, with repair of parking lot and sidewalks and the addition of a basketball court;
* Renovation of Brunswick Pavilion; and
* Renovation of Howe Pavilion, with parking, playground and basketball court improvements.


10. Sanitary District Projects
* Horace Mann Area Sewer and Streets Project
:: Involves the construction of new sanitary sewers and street reconstruction between 6th and 7th Avenues from Washington to Adams Street. Mandatory pre-bid conference scheduled for April 15, 2005 at 10 am.
* Sludge Thickening and Dewatering Improvement Project
:: This project includes three new gravity belt thickeners and four new belt filter presses and associated polymer feed equipment and pumps and piping to replace existing sludge thickening and dewatering equipment. It is anticipated that this project will be let for bid in June, 2005.
* 32nd Avenue and Alley One East Project
:: This project involves the construction of a flow modification structure on the existing 9'x5' combined sewer in Alley One East just south of the Little Calumet River. This project has a projected construction letting date of Summer, 2005.


11. Hope VI - Horace Mann Project
Construction will begin soon on 123 rental units of housing in an area between 6th and 7th Avenues from Washington to Adams Street. Various subcontracting work will be made available to Gary contractors in the following areas which are not exclusive: concrete, masonry, metals, carpentry, roofing, plumbing, heating, ventilation and air conditioning, electrical and landscaping.


12. Demolition of Large Structures
* Demolition of various large structures will commence city-wide with bids being let during Summer, 2005.

I think you've just proved many peoples point. They're trying to work on things to make what's there now look better.

Many renovation and improvement projects gives the impression of neglect. The overall number of those projects has to say something about the condition and/or look of the area.

I've been there...it's pretty worn looking.

although i have never been to gary, i have seen picures of streets near downtown that are seperated only by empty lots and the occasional abandoned house. not to say that gary is the most run down city in america, but it is run down, and no amount of new civil works projects can change the past or the present, although it may very well change the future

Detroit duh!

^^^Sarcasm?....Otherwise you need to inform yourself about just what Detroit is.


Besides that, I'd have to say either Gary, IN. or East Saint Louis..and probably many of the small towns, especially in the south.

It's too subjective to really answer, but when I went through the Philadelphia area last March, Chester, PA looked like as though it needed a major overhaul. From experience, I'll just say Chester.

U americans and your ghetto's

Toronto has none, suckerz.

Jkz...

FYI: The Golden Horseshoe surpassed The Rust belt in automotive production.

U americans and your ghetto's

Toronto has none, suckerz.

Jkz...

FYI: The Golden Horseshoe surpassed The Rust belt in automotive production.

Wow you are sooo cool.

Some Gary pics I found on the internet.

http://home.uchicago.edu/~bea/dune_3.jpg
http://www.find-hotels.us/in/images/in-def.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/cfx68/Indiana/gary.jpg
http://www.interstate-guide.com/images051/i-065_nt_27.jpg http://www.townsusa.org/images/Gary_Indiana_regional.gif http://spicerweb.org/miller/scenes/Lagoon/MillsOverThePavilionLagoon.jpg

Pics in or near Gary looking at chicago
http://www.faithfabric.com/tbh/history/images/lakemich/chiskyclose.jpg

Look there is Gary!! http://www.seagrant.wisc.edu/communications/greatlakes/GlacialGift/Graphics/Space_Images/satview-chicago.jpg

Mess with Gary, You will have to mess with this too!

http://www.alumni-world.com/snuaachicago/images/public%20images/chicago-waterfront-park.jpg

Compton or Imperial County is most rundown city in California.

I have said, Detroit is most rundown city in America but does u heard about St. Louis?

Compton or Imperial County is most rundown city in California.

Wrong. Compton has the highest crime rate in California? Yes. Compton has the highest murder rate in California? Yes. Compton is the most run-down city in California? No. You obviously haven't been there. I have. Compton is run-down in some areas, and there is a shit-load of graffiti everywhere. But the MOST run-down in California it is definitely not.

Wrong. Compton has the highest crime rate in California? Yes. Compton has the highest murder rate in California? Yes. Compton is the most run-down city in California? No. You obviously haven't been there. I have. Compton is run-down in some areas, and there is a shit-load of graffiti everywhere. But the MOST run-down in California it is definitely not.

Don't get me wrong but I haven't been in all part of Compton so just passing this city from freeway.

In Illinois, the most rundown city is like some E. Saint Louis suburbs or even E STL itself.

Edit

Worldwide, Please ignore BigDan35's request because he can revenge to make mess up ur thread. Its best result to PM to Jan or Jasonhouse, they can give strict issue about this thread. Jmancuso is great moderator to control ur thread.

BigDan, u got on my nervous so Compton is most rundown city in California, u don't get something that is lucky.

BigDan, u got on my nervous so Compton is most rundown city in California, u don't get something that is lucky.

WHAT??? That makes absolutely no sense at all.

There is some cities in New Jersey that are pretty runned down

WHAT??? That makes absolutely no sense at all.

Oh please, I'm currently mad at u so shut up.

Oh please, I'm currently mad at u so shut up.

LoL "I am currently mad at you" yea okay buddy. I'm glad you are mad at me, maybe now you will stop IMing me??? And don't tell me to shut up unless you actually have a way of making me...which you don't.

LoL "I am currently mad at you" yea okay buddy. I'm glad you are mad at me, maybe now you will stop IMing me??? And don't tell me to shut up unless you actually have a way of making me...which you don't.

What's ur dumb issue, then shut up.

The End

What's ur dumb issue, then shut up.

The End

Dude you are an idiot. Learn how to make sense when you talk/type. I also find it hilarious that whenever you get mad at someone, ANYONE, your "end all" response is always "shut up" like that is a finisher or something. LoL it's a little more complex than that, but you would not understand. Okay now...

THE END.

You got on my nervous???? Lololololololol. Good one.

He probably means nerves... I have never seen LA forumers fight with each other. All this started because of COmpton.

Dude you are an idiot. Learn how to make sense when you talk/type. I also find it hilarious that whenever you get mad at someone, ANYONE, your "end all" response is always "shut up" like that is a finisher or something. LoL it's a little more complex than that, but you would not understand. Okay now...

THE END.

ur an idiot, u don't live in ghetto area sooo shut up.

I'm going to ignore BigDan35 the dumb cage fighter.

Its alright and let starting with this topic, end of off topic.

I don't like this thread but if I had to choose here would be my list:

Harlem, NYC
South Bronx, NYC
Yonkers, NY

I've lived in NY for a couple of years and in my opinion their much worse than Gary, IN or Camden, NJ

I don't like this thread but if I had to choose here would be my list:

Harlem, NYC
South Bronx, NYC
Yonkers, NY

I've lived in NY for a couple of years and in my opinion their much worse than Gary, IN or Camden, NJ

Great point, What about St. Louis? I agree with everyone that who said E. STL is pretty bad.

Great point, What about St. Louis? I agree with everyone that who said E. STL is pretty bad.

How can you even compare St. Louis with East St. Louis, Gary or Camden .

Christ kid.

Worldwide, Please ignore BigDan35's request because he can revenge to make mess up ur thread. Its best result to PM to Jan or Jasonhouse, they can give strict issue about this thread. Jmancuso is great moderator to control ur thread.

im sorry, what did he say, it got edited before i could read it

im sorry, what did he say, it got edited before i could read it

He can skipping u cuz of new forumer and got less knowledge about this forum.

ur an idiot, u don't live in ghetto area sooo shut up.

First of all...how the hell would you know where I live? You damn stalker. Secondly...no I do not live in a "ghetto" area currently, but I grew up in one. In any event we are talking about the most run-down area so you don't have to currently live in a ghetto to put in your opinion...you idiot.

By the way...you were saying Compton is the most run-down. And I said that I have been to Compton and it does have lots of graffiti and some run-down areas but Compton is definitely not the most run-down.

I'm going to ignore BigDan35 the dumb cage fighter.

Dude do you see how immature you are being? Seriously, I have seen you all over these forums and whenever someone doesn't agree with you, you always call them "dumb" "stupid" "idiots" "assholes" anything you can think of. Do you ever wonder why so many people on this forum do not like you? And honestly man you are calling me a "dumb cage fighter" but look at your grammar....then tell me who is dumb?

im sorry, what did he say, it got edited before i could read it

It didn't say anything about you or this thread Worldwide...that is why I edited it. I was just complaining because Blink always IM's me on like 50 different screename's and it started pissing me off, so I said something about it on this thread which probably wasn't the right place to do it.

Why would you have given him your IM in the first place?

Why would you have given him your IM in the first place?

Because, this was a long time ago. He wanted my IM so we could "talk about cities" and stuff like that so I said okay cool whatever.

First of all...how the hell would you know where I live? You damn stalker. Secondly...no I do not live in a "ghetto" area currently, but I grew up in one. In any event we are talking about the most run-down area so you don't have to currently live in a ghetto to put in your opinion...you idiot.

By the way...you were saying Compton is the most run-down. And I said that I have been to Compton and it does have lots of graffiti and some run-down areas but Compton is definitely not the most run-down.



Dude do you see how immature you are being? Seriously, I have seen you all over these forums and whenever someone doesn't agree with you, you always call them "dumb" "stupid" "idiots" "assholes" anything you can think of. Do you ever wonder why so many people on this forum do not like you? And honestly man you are calling me a "dumb cage fighter" but look at your grammar....then tell me who is dumb?

u did grown up in Pacoima so its not part of ghetto area though, its like as trashy suburb.

u started made me sooo immature, ur an dumb though. I'm tired of ur complain about my grammar so u don't understand my old information in sig.

Because, this was a long time ago. He wanted my IM so we could "talk about cities" and stuff like that so I said okay cool whatever.

u liar, u don't said cool yet. I only had 6 sn.

u did grown up in Pacoima so its not part of ghetto area though, its like as trashy suburb.

u started made me sooo immature, ur an dumb though. I'm tired of ur complain about my grammar so u don't understand my old information in sig.

Okay this is starting to piss me off. YOU are trying to tell ME about MY life? I grew up in a shitty area in Van Nuys...I don't know where you get Pacoima from.

"u started made me sooo immature" << what?

"ur an dumb though." << what?

Oh by the way...I know quite a few deaf people who speak perfect english and grammar so what is your excuse?

u liar, u don't said cool yet. I only had 6 sn.

Ummm....what??? :weirdo:

Okay this is starting to piss me off. YOU are trying to tell ME about MY life? I grew up in a shitty area in Van Nuys...I don't know where you get Pacoima from.

"u started made me sooo immature" << what?

"ur an dumb though." << what?

Oh by the way...I know quite a few deaf people who speak perfect english and grammar so what is your excuse?



Ummm....what??? :weirdo:

No excuse for u about not known about me, I told u sooo many time. I SAID that I'm currently at deaf skool with weekday living at dorm.

Yikes! To comment ont his topic would be very difficult in the way that one mans trash is another mans treasure and most of even the worst cities have a nice area. There are probably a bunch of tying cities for this title. Probably not the most intellegent thing to contemplate.

Here are some pics of E. STL.

http://www.builtstlouis.net/eaststlouis/eaststl00.html

The Onion (http://www.theonion.com) had a satirical article about ESTL.

EAST ST. LOUIS, IL — The December issue of Poverty magazine, featuring its annual "Top American Cities" poll, hit newsstands Monday, and for the second year in a row, East St. Louis topped the list. "East St. Louis dominated our poll yet again in 2004, topping such categories as unemployment, hubcap availability, and liquor-stores-per-capita," Poverty editor Felicia Banks said. "The city's educational system also rated high, boasting a student-gun ratio of 1:1." Rounding out the top five, in descending order, were Flint, MI; Newark, NJ; Compton, CA; and Gary, IN.

Here are some pics of E. STL.

http://www.builtstlouis.net/eaststlouis/eaststl00.html

The Onion (http://www.theonion.com) had a satirical article about ESTL.

Thank u for sharing us with pic. :cheers:

"Flint, MI; Newark, NJ; Compton, CA; and Gary, IN. " all of these are big cities suburbs... is this a trend for other major cities too?

One interesting fact about ESTL is that there is an area with lots of strip joints and adult shops. In the middle of all of this is a church. :hahaha:

"Flint, MI; Newark, NJ; Compton, CA; and Gary, IN. " all of these are big cities suburbs... is this a trend for other major cities too?

Compton had been never decreasing population, unlike in East St. Louis, Gary or Camden. Newark, NJ is started rising more population in 90's and still rising today. Compton is nearly to suprassing 100,000.

Compton had been never decreasing population, unlike in East St. Louis, Gary or Camden. Newark, NJ is started rising more population in 90's and still rising today. Compton is nearly to suprassing 100,000.

Compton is nowhere near surpassing 100,000 people. In 1990 Compton's population was 90,454.

In 2005...15 years later Compton's population is 93,493.

That's a gain of only 3,039 people in 15 years. Compton will not pass 100,000 people for a long time...if ever.

Compton is nowhere near surpassing 100,000 people. In 1990 Compton's population was 90,454.

In 2005...15 years later Compton's population is 93,493.

That's a gain of only 3,039 people in 15 years. Compton will not pass 100,000 people for a long time...if ever.

Yeah, but we never known if its can be.

Population (year 2000): 93,493, Est. population in July 2002: 95,559 (+2.2% change)

Source: www.city-data.com

On a recent trip to Buffalo, NY, the cab driver from the airport mentioned that Buffalo had been in decline since the St. Lawrence Seaway opened. I don't know my exact history, but that should put in in 30+ years of decline according to a local.

My experience there matched this annalysis. A few good blocks of an entertainment district, but not much going on outside that, even during the weekdays at lunch. The city's retail street downtown with an LRT line was vacant spare a dollar store and a convience store.

On a recent trip to Buffalo, NY, the cab driver from the airport mentioned that Buffalo had been in decline since the St. Lawrence Seaway opened. I don't know my exact history, but that should put in in 30+ years of decline according to a local.

My experience there matched this annalysis. A few good blocks of an entertainment district, but not much going on outside that, even during the weekdays at lunch. The city's retail street downtown with an LRT line was vacant spare a dollar store and a convience store.

Buffalo is far from being the most run-down city in america.

Well, I certainly wouldn't say Cleveland. The old "mistake by the lake" has been enjoying a rennasaince.
I don't know a lot of American cities but I do know the ones close to Canada and well, my god, Detroit is an urban planning nightmare. Canada's national paper had a 2 page story about Detroit's troubles and urban decay. It showed some pics and it looked like
Bagdad except with lousier weather.

Call me a snotty Canadian but I find the overwhelming majority of American cities I have been to, and I have seen quite a few, they are all run down just some less than others.
The urban infrastructure, crime, poverty, racism, and lack of housing and non-existint nightlife's......... they are raampant in American cities.
I find most nothing but a bunch of malls connected by freeways with a few buildings downtown that vacate at 5:00.
Americans seems to be urban dwellers but not urbane. The flight to the suburbs and Americans loath of taxes as cost US dearly. Low taxes but that results in horrid infastructure.
In Canada as in Europe people clammer to get downtown and that is why they are so heavily populated and vibrant especially at night. Toronto/Montreal and to a degree Vancouver are busier at 11:00pm than 11:00 am. Tens of thousands everynight just shopping/movies/clubbing/theatre/bars/social meetings/coffee houses/restaurants and thousands just taking it all in with very little crime and beautiful inner city neighbourhoods.
Racism lead to the whites vacating to cities to the suburbs but crime is keeping them there.
There are some notable exceptions of course but in general you guys are simply not urbanites which is your choice but it makes for a dizzing array of ugly, deteriating unlivable cities.
Sounds harsh but everyone in Europe & Canada see it the exact same way. That is a shame because American cities use to be grande including a once cynamic Detroit but US cities have literally paved themselves to death.

Have you ever been to San Diego? San Fransisco? Seattle? Dallas? New York?

All cities have low points, I respect your opinion on this though. Suburbia has runied us, but Racism? Sorry but thats a steryotype and a stupid one at that. I live in a Mexican American suburb and its nice here, with low crime and nice houses that are well kept. Actually most downtowns are having an influx of white citizens, especially in San Diego were there moving into the new high rise condos.

Thats all I have to say, since I haven't been to Detroit or most of the Northeastern and Canadian border cities.

Have you ever been to San Diego? San Fransisco? Seattle? Dallas? New York?

All cities have low points, I respect your opinion on this though. Suburbia has runied us, but Racism? Sorry but thats a steryotype and a stupid one at that. I live in a Mexican American suburb and its nice here, with low crime and nice houses that are well kept. Actually most downtowns are having an influx of white citizens, especially in San Diego were there moving into the new high rise condos.

Thats all I have to say, since I haven't been to Detroit or most of the Northeastern and Canadian border cities.

San Diego is lowest murders in America.

San Diego is lowest murders in America.


Thats why he should come to San Diego and tell me that again. :)

Admittedly, I should have been clearer.
When suburbia started apace in the 50s, America was very racially devided and bigoted..........just like Canada. The difference was that the US has 10% of the population being black. When the civil right marches started and then the violence and race riots in many large US cities, the whites fled to the suburbs taking all their money and tax base with them.
Now with so many US cities still having high crime rates the wealthy blacks are ecaping too into fully integrated communities.
The problem was is that race had much to do with it then and this has left the inner cities having to deal with the poverty and declining infastructure with a shrinking population and tax base.
Things are finally turning around thankfully and many cities are reclaiming their inner cities and demographics have meant falling crime rates.
But with lower taxes in the suburbs, changing commuter patterns, and America's love affair with the car its going to be an uphill battle. Some are rising to the occation by increasing downtown housing and density, battling crime, and urban friendly iniatives like rapid transit. It will take time for these cities to come back to their former glory but many are setting the foundations of prosperous and vibrant downtowns and in 20 to 30 years they will be glad they invested the time and money.

I hope that clearsup what I said.

Thats why he should come to San Diego and tell me that again. :)

Yeah, I love San Diego!!!!!

While I certainly understand the point you're trying to make, there are quite a few things I disagree with. Firstly, no one issue can be pinned as the driving reason for urban decay. More often than not, only a sliver of the population leaving cities attributes to racist purposes in current times. It isn't even the crime either. There are many cities in the US with high crime, but still have demand for housing. The problem, if I had to choose one issue to blame, is poor schools. Once a family has kids, if the schools don't present much potential to teach, the family will leave to the suburbs where school funding is often greater. But if no one sticks around to be educated, how is the future going to look? The problem perhaps started with racism, in addition to declines in manufacturing and rickety infrastructure. When people began leaving, the tax base shrunk and less money was available for basic services.

Having lived in a major metropolitan area my entire life (Baltimore/Washington/Annapolis) I have to say that it is alive and kicking. The shops around where I live don't close until about midnight, unless you live in the Leave-it-to-Beaver suburban world where everything closes just after sunset. I live in an area where the cars are still whizzing about the highways at 3 am. I haven't spent enough time in other cities to say the same; when you stack up all the crime numbers, boarded up houses, and empty parking lots, they really don't amount to anything when you compare the spirit and vibe of the citizens. It's really not as dire and gloomy as the pictures and articles you read would like to portray. Sure, they are of concern, but change for the better is evident. The early 90s were pretty bad in many cities (peaked crime and AIDS rates), but as we stand in the mid 2000s, a lot of people are going through a renaissance. The media...it sure is a persuasive tool, isn't it? One can only fathom the power it wields by just taking a few dismal facts and making American cities look abyssmal and downtrotted. True, the same can be said about good news. But if you live in a city, you know how it ticks and will wonder why the number of murders was so discouraging, to begin with, that it keeps you away.

B'more and DC has been doing fantastic economically and getting better with crime in the past 10 yrs or so and it'll continue.

As I noted earleir crime has been falling dramatically at the same time there is the beggining of an urban renissance.........not a coincedence.
I can understand your point about the schools and its a good one. Thats called bad urban planning. In Canada the inner city schools get more money and ussually have the better schools and the inner cities tend to have lower crime rates than the suburbs with some notable exceptions suchas Vancouver due to being such a huge port and drug centre.
In the US due to a lack of a social safety net and larger gap between the rich and the poor there are many more homeless than other western countries on a per-capita basis. This tends to also scare off people especially people with kids.

Yeah, I love San Diego!!!!!
Sorry, took it for sarcasm...:)

MOTOWN BABY!

rust belt cities are obvious choices. buffalo, detroit, cleveland, toledo, gary, and others certainly can be thrown into the mix.

The list needs to be corrected as far as what is run-down:

Youngstown
Gary
Detroit
Flint
East St. Louis
Benton Harbor


:gunz:

Toledo has just as much blight as a city like Flint, and Detroit has areas of the city larger than all of those other cities combined that is nothing but middle-class homes.

It neither has the largest percentage of blight (that probably belongs to gary or some other small industrial town) nor the largest area of blight (that title probably belongs to Chicago.)

Some here had a hyperlink to an urban decay site.

I always find it interesting to see some of these pictures of Urban Decay. Some of the ones in Atlanta I even remember passing by!

Toledo has just as much blight as a city like Flint, and Detroit has areas of the city larger than all of those other cities combined that is nothing but middle-class homes.

It neither has the largest percentage of blight (that probably belongs to gary or some other small industrial town) nor the largest area of blight (that title probably belongs to Chicago.)

Blight? Toledo has just as much blight as a city like Flint and Detroit? Now come on--the urban sprawl factor in Toledo is relatively low compared to similar size cities and on the national level. There are some housing problems but perhaps here and there but there isn't blight nor ghetto nor slum--because those terminologies would represent an area that covers block after block of distress area. Saying Toledo is like Flint in terms of blight is like saying Chicago's crime rate is like Baghdad.

Flint and Detroit are dealing with some major problems in terms of psychologically, racial, and financially which was wrecked by the evil history of economics. Which makes those cities a much more challenge to run or even bring life back into the city in a healthy state.

Toledo is not all middle-class housing--do your homework. There are abundance of upscale homes, upper-middle class neighborhoods, warehouse lofts, townhomes around the city which has been shown in several threads by me. Perhaps saying Youngstown or East St. Louis is just like Flint or Detroit might do some justice.

:rant:

Have you ever been to Flint? I've been to both Toledo and Flint, and I can say that, while Toledo definately does have the upper hand, both cities have a similar amount of urban blight. In any case, Toledo isn't the poster child of urban prosperity.

Also, I should have put a period where that comma was. I didn't mean to say Toledo has as much blight as Detroit; I was saying that Detroit has areas of the city that are larger than East St. Louis, Gary, Flint, etc. that have nothing but middle-class homes. In other words, Detroit has nowhere near the percentage of blight of East St. Louis, Gary, Flint, etc. and it probably ranks behind Chicago in total amount of blight.

Toledo has just as much blight as a city like Flint, and Detroit has areas of the city larger than all of those other cities combined that is nothing but middle-class homes.

It neither has the largest percentage of blight (that probably belongs to gary or some other small industrial town) nor the largest area of blight (that title probably belongs to Chicago.)
If you are counting vacant lots of land and vacant buildings as blight you are way way way off.

I went to Detroit during my spring break midwest vacation and it was very run down. The streets are also very bumpy.

On a recent trip to Buffalo, NY, the cab driver from the airport mentioned that Buffalo had been in decline since the St. Lawrence Seaway opened. I don't know my exact history, but that should put in in 30+ years of decline according to a local.

My experience there matched this annalysis. A few good blocks of an entertainment district, but not much going on outside that, even during the weekdays at lunch. The city's retail street downtown with an LRT line was vacant spare a dollar store and a convience store.

Buffalo is not pretty, but it aint Detroit or either, or Baltimore for that matter.

Have you ever been to Flint? I've been to both Toledo and Flint, and I can say that, while Toledo definately does have the upper hand, both cities have a similar amount of urban blight. In any case, Toledo isn't the poster child of urban prosperity.

Also, I should have put a period where that comma was. I didn't mean to say Toledo has as much blight as Detroit; I was saying that Detroit has areas of the city that are larger than East St. Louis, Gary, Flint, etc. that have nothing but middle-class homes. In other words, Detroit has nowhere near the percentage of blight of East St. Louis, Gary, Flint, etc. and it probably ranks behind Chicago in total amount of blight.

How in the hell does Chicago have the largest area of blight? Where is this area? Please tell me the boundaries. You are probably the only person that thinks Detroit is in better shape than Chicago. Give me a break.

If you are counting vacant lots of land and vacant buildings as blight you are way way way off.


Hudkina is always way, way off. This guy doesn't have a clue. He needs to stop making a fool out of himself.

Huh? He's easily one of the best number crunchers I've ever encountered. Now, he can also skew that data, but he knows what he's doing. And even if you want to dispute that, he sures knows a hell of lot more than you, Dampyre. Don't hate, congratulate. :)

Huh? He's easily one of the best number crunchers I've ever encountered. Now, he can also skew that data, but he knows what he's doing. And even if you want to dispute that, he sures knows a hell of lot more than you, Dampyre. Don't hate, congratulate. :)

He doesn't know more about Chicago than I do. You can take his balls out of your mouth now.

First of all, I never said Detroit was in better shape than Chicago. Secondly, I never definitively stated that Chicago had more blight than Detroit. However, it can be assumed that because Chicago is a much larger city than Detroit, its nasty sides are larger as well. They may be a smaller percentage of the total city, but in raw numbers, they are probably larger.

It can be assumed that Chicago has more blight than Gary, IN. Does that mean that Gary is in better shape than Chicago? No, it just means that due to Chicago's size, it's going to have more downtrodden areas. Chicago is a pretty big city and the bigger the city the bigger the good and the bigger the bad.

For example, about 560,000 people live below the poverty line in Chicago. That's more than twice the amount in Detroit. So, because Chicago is larger, it has more people below the poverty line. However, that doesn't mean that Detroit is better off because it has less people below the poverty line. When you look at percentages, about 26% of Detroiters live below the poverty line while the number in Chicago is only about 20%. The same could be said for just about any statistic, good or bad. Chicago has more murders, but Detroit has more murders per capita.

So, yes I would think that because Chicago is a much larger city, it probably does have a larger total combined area of blight.

Also, I'd like you, Dampyre, to go through any of my posts and tell me in each one where I'm "way off". Go ahead, I'd like to know. You can't make a statement like that and then not support it with an example. If in any one I am wrong, I'll apologize, but as far as I'm concerned, I've only used actual statistics from the horses mouth.

^ so using that logic, NYC and LA both must have more blight than chicago. they are both larger than chicago and they both have more people below the poverty line.

First of all, I never said Detroit was in better shape than Chicago. Secondly, I never definitively stated that Chicago had more blight than Detroit. However, it can be assumed that because Chicago is a much larger city than Detroit, its nasty sides are larger as well. They may be a smaller percentage of the total city, but in raw numbers, they are probably larger.

It can be assumed that Chicago has more blight than Gary, IN. Does that mean that Gary is in better shape than Chicago? No, it just means that due to Chicago's size, it's going to have more downtrodden areas. Chicago is a pretty big city and the bigger the city the bigger the good and the bigger the bad.

For example, about 560,000 people live below the poverty line in Chicago. That's more than twice the amount in Detroit. So, because Chicago is larger, it has more people below the poverty line. However, that doesn't mean that Detroit is better off because it has less people below the poverty line. When you look at percentages, about 26% of Detroiters live below the poverty line while the number in Chicago is only about 20%. The same could be said for just about any statistic, good or bad. Chicago has more murders, but Detroit has more murders per capita.

So, yes I would think that because Chicago is a much larger city, it probably does have a larger total combined area of blight.

Also, I'd like you, Dampyre, to go through any of my posts and tell me in each one where I'm "way off". Go ahead, I'd like to know. You can't make a statement like that and then not support it with an example. If in any one I am wrong, I'll apologize, but as far as I'm concerned, I've only used actual statistics from the horses mouth.


Ok, that's all well and obvious but I'm still wondering where this largest area of poverty in the country is. Both New York and Los Angeles have almost the exact same poverty rate as Chicago and since those are both larger cities one would expect them to have more blight than Chicago.

There are some extremely bad areas in Chicago but there is no super-large area full of devastation like you implied.

First of all, I never said Detroit was in better shape than Chicago. Secondly, I never definitively stated that Chicago had more blight than Detroit. [b] However, it can be assumed that because Chicago is a much larger city than Detroit, its nasty sides are larger as well. They may be a smaller percentage of the total city, but in raw numbers, they are probably larger.[b/]


First off to compare poverty statistics between Detroit and Chicago is misleading considering we have about 650,000 foreign born immigrants in Chicago or 23% of the city population compared to compared to 46,000 in Detroit or 4.5 % of Detroit. First generation immigrants tend to be very poor hence why they left to come to the US.


You are so wrong, I looked up the number of vacant parcels of land and vacant buildings. I didn't post them out of respect. But anyway as I remember a standard city lot in Chicago is a lot smaller than a standard city lot in Detroit and Detroit had 2.5 times as many vacant standard city lots as Chicago does. The number of vacant buildings comparison was completely not comparable at all. Chicago tears town their vacant buildings fast, it is a fast track program of some sort. A vacant building on a lot is not considered a vacant city lot thus pushing Detoit way way higher than Chicago because in reality it is a vacant building on is a vacant lot as no one lives there. Remember Chicago has only lost 18% of its population as oppossed to 50% and much of Chicago's population loss was in extremely high density multifamily buildings not single family homes like Detroit. A three flat in chicago occupies less space than a single family home in Detroit. Also the number of vacant parcels of land in Chicago is going down by a lot every year.

Nor do I understand you isistence that with 600 square miles in Detroit and its suburbs it has 3 million people when Wayne County which Detroit is part of is about 600 square miles and has just under 2 million people.

Dampyre, I never said Chicago has one whole area that is nothing but blight. I said that Chicago's total combined area of blight is probably larger than Detroit's total combined area of blight due to the fact that Chicago is a much larger city than Detroit. And yes, the same is probably true for Los Angeles or New York.

Also, vacant lots and vacant buildings aren't the only definition of blight. (In fact, vacant lots technically aren't even considered blight). The densest area of the city could be the most blighted. By definition, blight is something that hinders development.

Also, qwerty1234, you do realize that Detroit's urban area is actually split between three counties, right? That's why they call it the Tri-County area. Oakland and Macomb counties combine for 2 million people. I'm sure you've heard of 8 Mile. That's the northern border of the city of Detroit as well as the northern border of Wayne county. The majority of Detroit's suburbs are north of 8 Mile.

http://www.downriverdetroit.net/detroit2.gif

As you can see the 3 million people don't all live in Wayne County.

Detroit, doesn't everyone know this?

All I know is that I live in a very beautiful city...Salt Lake City, Utah. Most of the cities I've seen are very nice. Denver, Boise, Idaho Falls, Whitefish, Kalispell, Seattle, Phoenix, Flagstaff, etc.

There are a lot of well-kept, beautiful American cities. I've seen many that I've never been to, too.

My husband has been to Detroit. His description of it was "it's a hole". He also said that about Philadelphia, lol.

I'd say the best cities are in the interior west, and most of the west coast, as far as cleanliness, etc. But, I've seen nice cities all over the U.S.

^ Your husband is wrong.

My husband has been to Detroit. His description of it was "it's a hole".


I've been to Salt Lake City and I think it's a hole.

I've been to Salt Lake City and I think it's a hole.

Someone a little sore?

More urban cities would seem like a culture shock coming from the well 'kempt cities' that you are talking about, so that definately makes sense. My pompous dad in Los Angeles thinks that he lives in the only state in the US, so when he visits places everything is a hole then too.

Someone a little sore?

No, just real.

Detroit has lots of potential. Does it have issues? Yes. Does it have more than its fair share of blight? Absolutely. But it also has some very nice middle class homes, and a very competitive and respected African American population. Part of the city's propblem is that it can't seem to get more and more white Americans back into the city, investing in the core and helping with its restoration. As an article I read on Detroit some months ago pointed out all too well, "Detroit has the burden of having to figure out how to properly scale down a city services budget that was designed to be paid for by a city with 2,000,000 residents when now it only has about 950,000."

So given that, you should expect things like the roads not being in the best shape (even for a large city) or the schools to have to scrimp and struggle to stay afloat lest they be closed and the student population consolidated with another nearby or the bus system to struggle to figure out how to offer much needed service without having to layoff or cutback on other essentials.

But the history of the city is indisputable, and the perserverance of those who decide to stick around is laudable. And while on my last stay I was disgusted with my Ramada Downtown fiasco, I like the effort being put into downtown rejuvenation. I hope it keeps moving forward and I hope the people will rediscover its core.

The question I have is that is there an objective way of measuring the rate of blight in a large American city? Has this be done? And what would be the accepted qualifications of blight versus non-blight?

All I know is that I live in a very beautiful city...Salt Lake City, Utah. Most of the cities I've seen are very nice. Denver, Boise, Idaho Falls, Whitefish, Kalispell, Seattle, Phoenix, Flagstaff, etc.

There are a lot of well-kept, beautiful American cities. I've seen many that I've never been to, too.

My husband has been to Detroit. His description of it was "it's a hole". He also said that about Philadelphia, lol.

I'd say the best cities are in the interior west, and most of the west coast, as far as cleanliness, etc. But, I've seen nice cities all over the U.S.

Sounds like you and your husband are rather sheltered and lack sophistication in the area of urban appreciation. I suggest you travel more and learn how to appreciate cities of all types. I won't say anything about Salt Lake City because I have never been there, but I hope most people from your city are more evolved.

Detroit - there is no need to defend yourself when people make such ignorant statements. Just ignore them. They don't want to be educated. They are on a quest to have their ignorance confirmed and affirmed.

I went to SLC in the summer of 2002...while I found it to be a pretty clean and modern city, it's no beacon for urban planning. There really isn't much to do there. It's a little too clean for my taste. But indeed, it's a very beautiful city and very friendly. Detroit, on the other hand, now that's a city. It's too bad people have such myopic views of cities that they don't care to learn why it's in the state it's in or what is being done to change things. People seem to only care about the immediate goodness and fail to see the underlying joys. Ignorance is bliss.

I enjoy and appreciate every city I visit. That is because I take the time to learn about the city, find what is best about a city, etc. I leave no stone unturned. I have no use for people that visit a city and trash it. That doesn't mean you won't find one city more to your liking than another, but, to call any city a hole is disgusting and boorish.

^ More people need to be like you expat:)

Someone a little sore?

Someone a lot ignorant?

my city of Gary,Indiana is pretty run down.i eat,breathe n sleep n Gary everyday.tha mayor is trying to make some improvements but it was a long time comin.all tha crack houses abandoned buildings bums on broadway gangbangers crime dont get me scared cuz i'm used to it.i'm to hearin gun shots everyday witnessing a couple of murders a year.this city is nowhere near safe and u could easily get away with murder.there is a war right now in that Glen Park section of tha city that by tha end of tha year will have Gary back as tha Murder Capital of tha US..the only time its really safe iz when we have a big event like tha fouth of july celebration,thats when police are out n full force but this still is tha place 102,000 people call home and propbably will never leave.

my city of Gary,Indiana is pretty run down.i eat,breathe n sleep n Gary everyday.tha mayor is trying to make some improvements but it was a long time comin.all tha crack houses abandoned buildings bums on broadway gangbangers crime dont get me scared cuz i'm used to it.i'm to hearin gun shots everyday witnessing a couple of murders a year.this city is nowhere near safe and u could easily get away with murder.there is a war right now in that Glen Park section of tha city that by tha end of tha year will have Gary back as tha Murder Capital of tha US..the only time its really safe iz when we have a big event like tha fouth of july celebration,thats when police are out n full force but this still is tha place 102,000 people call home and propbably will never leave.

You just lost any credibility you might have had. You obviously are braggin about Gary and it's crime rate. "Crack houses, bums, gangbangers, crime DON'T GET ME SCARED CAUSE I'M USED TO IT" "I'M USED TO HEARIN GUNSHOTS AND WITNESSING MURDERS" Dude....shut up. You sound like an idiot. Oh and that was only your 2nd post on this site. Figures...you are probably some new guy who decided to register on this site just so you could write what you did and brag about the crime rate in Gary. And brag about how tough you are that nothin SCARES you and you are used to witnessing murders and hearin gunshots and blah blah blah blah blah. The funny thing is....you probably don't even live in Gary. Nice try...

about the Toledo situation...

every area of the city besides the west and extreme south, is mostly blight. Dont get me started on North Toledo. It reminds me a bit of Delray up in Motown.

Fifth Third Field is located in some shit-ass warehouse district from 100 years ago, and the world class Toledo Museum of Art is located in Toledo's boiling pot of crime, central toledo.

The last I checked, those upper class homes that Bonjour was speaking of, are actually in Sylvania Twsp. Detroits and Toledo poverty rates are very similar, but they dont belong anywhere with the likes of Gary, Camden etc, becase D and T-town both have some rather tame neighborhoods as weel.

Now Flint is shit btw... :)

Compton or Imperial County is most rundown city in California.

I have said, Detroit is most rundown city in America but does u heard about St. Louis?

yea its kinda run down but has many historic neighborhoods

yea its kinda run down but has many historic neighborhoods
There are rundown neighborhoods in St. Louis, but there a lot of very elegant neighborhoods and a lot of tidy neighborhoods, too. St. Louis is a complex city with all kinds of neighborhoods. But, I guess most cities are.

nearly 1,000,000 people have left Detroit in the last 50 years...the city has gone to shambles in areas we don't commonly see on skyline picture threads, make no mistake the city is in bad shape, I'm taking anything from the city because I have a very special interest in all the rustbelt cities, but Detroit is in need of more help than Baghdad (hint hint)

ofcourse there are parts of St. Louis, Buffalo, Rochester, Gary, Erie, Cleveland, Birmingham, Jacksonville, Pittsburgh, Philly, NYC, and Milwaukee that look like shit as well, but Detroit seems to take the cake.

Buff, that's ridiculous, especially coming from someone in Buffalo, NY. This line shows how much of an interest you have in Detroit:

Detroit is in need of more help than Baghdad (hint hint)

Yeah, very objective view there. Classy.

And while the numbers I'm about to show don't tell everything about these two cities, it shows how much you're exaggerating to make a negative point.

Housing Vacancy Percentage:

Detroit: 10.3%
Buffalo: 15.7%

Come on, now. If someone is going to bash Detroit, as least let it be from a city in noticeably better shape than it. lol

Buffalo lost 50% of its population between 1950 and 2000, Detroit lost 49%.

Yeah Detroit lost more people, but it was a much larger city. Buffalo's loss of 290,000 people was just as difficult for the city as Detroit's loss of 900,000.

In fact, on average Buffalo lost 7,100 people for each square mile of the city while Detroit lost 6,500 people for each square mile.

Housing Vacancy Percentage:

Detroit: 10.3%
Buffalo: 15.7%

I wonder which city has had more acts of arson in the last 25 years?

Oklahoma City since the city is basically a giant trailer park with 70s paint schemes

And New York is a big polluted haven for crime. Times change. :sleepy:
Oklahoma City is pretty nice if you'd care to take a walk around there sometime. I have a good impression of OC, and this thread is dumb to start calling out witch at every city that has a slum neighborhood.

Buff, that's ridiculous, especially coming from someone in Buffalo, NY. This line shows how much of an interest you have in Detroit:

Detroit is in need of more help than Baghdad (hint hint)

Yeah, very objective view there. Classy.

And while the numbers I'm about to show don't tell everything about these two cities, it shows how much you're exaggerating to make a negative point.

Housing Vacancy Percentage:

Detroit: 10.3%
Buffalo: 15.7%

Come on, now. If someone is going to bash Detroit, as least let it be from a city in noticeably better shape than it. lol

own.