View Full Version : Road saftey: 4WD'S?


Citystyle
May 17th, 2005, 11:33 PM
I have decided to go on a public awareness campaign as the intellectual’s move in on banning 4WD’s around schools at the least.

This is my proposition.

As a young Australian and a car enthusiast I will be going for my L’s in September. I would like to flatten the “Urban Myth” of the “Urban Assault Vehicle”.

The diffusion of a 4WD has been completely changed and these day’s it’s almost impossible to categorize what a 4WD is. Is it a raised AWD vehicle that weight’s over 2000kg’s no? A Territory comes in RWD and AWD, the RWD’s weight is less than 2000kg and the 4WD version is over 2000kg, it also changes on option’s making it even harder.

So do we consider a territory RWD a raised wagon, no? It has the same shell same ride height and same braking distance. If anything taking NM from the front wheel’s makes the car less safe.

So we know it has to be over 2000kg’s at least, but not all 4WD’s are created equal look at the new breed of 4WD’s coming into the market the only 4WD’s that stick to the old school design is LandRover/ RangeRover, Landcruiser, Patrol and Pajero. We know the safety of the Rover’s are second to none, Same with Pajero. Looks like the LC and patrol loose out.

So it’s would be a waist of time, these two vehicles getting banned from city’s is a waist of time, it will make a 0% difference to road fatality’s.

Now to car park’s a raised vehicle has difficult seeing a girl a few feet in front, she walks from behind the wall straight into the car’s path nothing the driver can do. Silly girl’s own fault very sad but true. A little common sense and parent education would go along way and prevent this tragedy. Not the car or the driver’s fault.

But say we were to say it’s the vehicle height and driving position’s fault in a few rare time’s less common than the situation above. We would have to get rid of or make 4WD driver’s get specialized licenses. Sound’s like a good idea, no do we have special licenses for a commodore’s poor driving position no and it can effect a situation how you can steer and vision. You may miss a car because your C-pillar is thick. Maybe you drive a VW with brakes that are clearly poorly designed and are weak. Do we make you get a special license No?

I’m all for people learning to drive properly I personally plan on getting a track license, doing motorama this will allow me to learn how my car steer’s at high speed’s, swerves, brake’s, handle’s thing’s you only find out after experience in the extreme and doing this extreme on the road can mean lives.

So we should get licenses to the exact specification of our car, modifications and all. It’s a good idea but it wont be supported by the public or the government. I would love to tell the anti-4WD group’s they have to do a 2-3 month program. The fact is if I personally say 98% of driver’s are not qualified and prepared to drive on road’s they will be offended and tell me to shut up. When common sense, the fact’s and professionals are on my side, it anger’s me.

Ride height of a territory is a little higher than a Honda Odyssey a station wagon, but the territory has the advantage of a lower bonnet as opposed to none. 4WD’s are little taller than a small van, a commercial Van is huge in comparison. A panel van is a little lower.

For people who buy Small cheap Japanese and Korean car’s like the Daewoo Mataiz, Toyota echo so forth, You have a death wish that even a fiesta, Jazz and swift can carry out.

-Poor Driver education
-Poor Road design
-Poor Car park design
-Poor pedestrian Education
-Poor Government Policy


The Public need’s to be educated; it’s far cheaper than running a 3 billion dollar suicide squad.

The war on speed needs be cut down and other area’s taken on board, nobody is willing well I thought I can change or even a few views out. You can’t teach people to be good driver’s by saying don’t speed don’t drink and drive.

We are not taught sex education that way and it’s as dangerous as STI and STD’s. No Public awareness need’s to change one thing that has been left behind in the western world is education of all types.

The View that road/race cars are dangerous need’s to go; I would feel safer in a Lambo Diablo than in most other cars.

People say car design is lagging behind no the technology is there and it will be introduced into cars from the top money down as it always has. Car Company’s like Toyota BMW, Honda, Nissan and Ford are pushing technology to green car’s, with new age floor plan’s.

I think a Educated Public would kill the 4WD myth, kill the speed myth, kill the racing/danger myth and kill the 3 billion dollar suicide squad.

Citystyle
May 17th, 2005, 11:37 PM
Please mind my spelling and english it's 5:30am and ive been up all night. Cheers.

Your free to slam me all you want, please do, that's what i want. If you agree at all it's a positive.

So let's start talking...people...

Maroon Grown
May 18th, 2005, 12:22 AM
i own a toyota hilux dual cab 4wd and its a mad lookin beast. as for ppl who whinge about thier fuel consumption, its only a 4 cyl 2.7.

and as for safety, well what about the numnuts who get into commodores, lancers, supras, skylines, corollas, civics, excels etc and burn up the streets, speed and just drive dangerously. why dont we ban those huh? coz u cant. Same for 4wd's.

JayT
May 18th, 2005, 02:30 AM
My personal Hate: (sorry if I sound sexist but)

Can't stand women who drive FWD's and think they are invincable. They drive around thinking they own the road.

I don't particularly care for FWD's on the roads of the city - they should go back to the country where they belong. City FWD's should attract much higher taxes and rego's to compensate for the people they kill.

If FWD owners want to drive a "truck" around then they should be made responsible for their actions. I mean a small accident involving a FWD might cause perminant serious injury to someone while a similar accident with two ordinary sedans may just incur a slight temporary injury.

There you go - had my morning rant:)
Hope I didn't offend any one.

jt

defec8R
May 18th, 2005, 04:47 AM
Afternoon rant... Being a car driver I'm not much of a fan of 4WDs. Because they're difficult to see past it can make simple things a bit dangerous. Like having to creep forward past the 4WD alongside before you can see what's coming. If it's a car, you can see through its glass. In stop-start traffic it's impossible to see past the bloody things unless you swerve out to the right.

It's the same story crossing the road on foot. Even short people can see over cars or at least through the glass to get an idea, without having to lean out and peer around.

If there's a prang and a Landcruiser side-swipes a sedan, one of the car's occupants will be killed by a Toyota badge to the head. So the Cruiser is safer. Maybe we should all stop whinging and buy one. But then some people will start buying prime movers to hoot around the burbs.

marty_k
May 18th, 2005, 05:05 AM
JT, just for future reference: FWD = Front-wheel drive and 4WD = four-wheel drive :tongue2:

I actually have a soft spot for some 4WDs (Jeeps in particular), and probably wouldn't be opposed to going out and buying a V8 Grand Cherokee if I could afford to run the damn thing. Jeeps aren't great for reliability, running costs or practicality though.

On the other side of the coin, I can understand people's frustration at the suburban 4WD. My opinion is that it's not the car itself -- it's the moron behind the wheel. A 4WD is harmless if the person driving it is level-headed, considerate and a half-way decent driver.

Maroon Grown
May 18th, 2005, 05:15 AM
i hate ppl who buy 4wd's or as the yuppies call them - SUV's for the purpose of city driving and never to see the dirt. i have a 4wd, drive it round the city a lot but also take it off road reguraly which is the secondary purpose of their existence. if u buy a 4wd, whack 2 private school stickers on the back and never leave the bitumen then youre an idiot!

Givitup
May 18th, 2005, 05:59 AM
What's the alternative, I have 4 kids, tow a van, go camping for holidays....

My 4wd is not a truck, it's smaller, lighter, and has better visability and we don't drive it like a sports car.

nikko
May 18th, 2005, 11:34 AM
I'm a 4WD fan and I'd love to get an old LandCruiser to beat around the bush when I get my license.

I agree with Maroon Grown, if you want the room...don't was your money on shit you'll never use (i.e. The traction etc.) and buy something like a Ford Territory which can actully be manuvered on the road.

ABS
May 18th, 2005, 01:33 PM
I'm not worried, high fuel prices will eventually phase out the Toorak Tracktors.

Malt
May 18th, 2005, 01:37 PM
^
wagons have the room.

My family tows things, and goes camping with a Commodore wagon.
And before that with a Nissan twin cab ute.


You dont need a Honkin' big 4WD for city driving. Your an idiot if u get one.


Thats not to say i agree with banning them. Just because i tihnk people are idiots doesnt mean u can tell people what they can and cant drive.


Agree'd about the 4Wd's in traffic.
I am a Learner atm... I was coming down this road (not important) and wanted to change lanes so i could turn.. But there was some moron in a 4WD right up my ass. I couldnt see if there were cars coming. Very annoying.

mutzdeputz
May 18th, 2005, 01:50 PM
Bloody threat to public safety they are.....

Thats what horse & cart drivers used to say about the model-T.

fandango
May 18th, 2005, 05:13 PM
So it’s would be a waist of time, these two vehicles getting banned from city’s is a waist of time, it will make a 0% difference to road fatality’s.

Now to car park’s a raised vehicle has difficult seeing a girl a few feet in front, she walks from behind the wall straight into the car’s path nothing the driver can do. Silly girl’s own fault very sad but true. A little common sense and parent education would go along way and prevent this tragedy. Not the car or the driver’s fault.
.
If the girl gets hit by a normal car, she should roll over the bonnet. If a girl gets hit by a 4wd like a Landcruiser, she is going to be pushed under the car, and thoroughly run over, which is much worse. Modern cars are have crumple zones, 4wds aren't designed or constructed with those in mind. Bull bars where there isn't any stock around are useless, and can add much damage to any pedestrian struck by one, and reduce the effectiveness of a crumple zone, if a 4wd even has one. Furthermore, a big rigid behemoth is more likely to kill a passenger in a normal car whos head is at the level of a 4wds engine, especially if there is no crumple zone in the 4wd. 4wds are also more prone to roll overs. A 4wd is difficult to see past for a normal car driver. A 4wd headlights shine right through the rear window of normal cars and blind the driver. And given the extra danger that 4wd owners impose on the rest of us, they drive even worse than the rest of us as well. It's an unecessary danger to those of us who don't choose to drive these 4wds.

mutzdeputz
May 19th, 2005, 01:50 AM
And given the extra danger that 4wd owners impose on the rest of us, they drive even worse than the rest of us as well.
So do volvo drivers. Ban the driver not the vehicle.

If you ban 4wds why not ban trucks - they are even worse....

nagelixin
May 19th, 2005, 03:09 AM
As Paul Keating said tax them out of existance. There is no need for them in the city.

Malt
May 19th, 2005, 03:11 AM
Trucks are restricted already mutz.
And futhermore, trucks serve a purpose. They transport goods.


You dont see ever second family on the street dricing their kids to school in a semi (although with the morons that buy 4wd's for ONLY city driving, it wouldnt suprise me if Semi's were next)

sirhc8
May 19th, 2005, 03:20 AM
I've got no problem with what anyone chooses to drive.
Regardless, you don't even see any of the big ones here. Go and drive around in the States for a while and you'll see what a big car is... regularly.

Givitup
May 19th, 2005, 04:46 AM
^
wagons have the room.

My family tows things, and goes camping with a Commodore wagon.
And before that with a Nissan twin cab ute.


You dont need a Honkin' big 4WD for city driving. Your an idiot if u get one.


Thanks

So where do I put the forth kid - strap her to the roof racks - commodes are fairly lousy on the beach and off-road - unless its one of the new 4x4 types :)

Maroon Grown
May 19th, 2005, 04:56 AM
if u buy one- use it offroad
if u have a bullbar - use it for a purpose
bright headlights - no worse than those blue lights on new bmw's
4wd's are slow - no speeding or wreckless driving like sports cars
4wd's are safe - id rather be in a fourby than a barina if i was hit by a truck

dont be a tool. if u buy one use it for offroading!

Givitup
May 19th, 2005, 04:59 AM
Agreed, except for the Barina part - a truck would probably go over the top of a Barina : )

Avatar
May 19th, 2005, 05:33 AM
if u buy one- use it offroad
if u have a bullbar - use it for a purpose
bright headlights - no worse than those blue lights on new bmw's
4wd's are slow - no speeding or wreckless driving like sports cars
4wd's are safe - id rather be in a fourby than a barina if i was hit by a truck

dont be a tool. if u buy one use it for offroading!

True, if people own them it would be better if it were for a purpose other than to menace other drivers. Time and time again I have seen lame ass drivers, esp women in their overgrown lexus, jeep and bmw 4WD vehicles carting around no more than the shopping and their babies. As a sportscar owner I am frustrated due to the amount of vision these things block - making it harder for other drivers to anticipate driving conditions.

BTW, making the asumption that all 4WDs are slow is a joke.

LOL leave the sports car drivers alone... My car is an AWD 3000GT TT and its like 0-100 in under 6 seconds its a safe car and I don't drive it like a crack smoking hoe. Not all sportcar drivers are wreckless and dangerous. Additionally, not all 4wd vehicles are like turtles - there are many high-powered large 4WD vehicles, some of them are very fast with big engines.

A bad driver is a bad driver in any vehicle - large 4wd vehicles make the problem more noticeble in some situations though. You can speed and break the traffic rules in big chunky 4WD also. While some cars esp decent sports cars and some luxury cars make bad drivers better drivers.

Centre of gravity is a big minus from most 4WDs ability to handle well. Alternatively mine has AWD, AWS and a very low centre of gravity but then again it's a sports car not a bulky tank. I would guess more accidents a year a caused by large 4WDs than sports cars. and many 4WDs are unsafe - studies have shown, people are far more at risk when compared with an ordinary sedan. They are also a big danger to pedestrians.

I agree with the idea special licensing should be introduced, it would make the larger 4WDs less attractive to mothers and middle aged women that have no use for them other than to bolster their own sence of power.

mutzdeputz
May 20th, 2005, 06:25 AM
And futhermore, trucks serve a purpose. They transport goods.

So the safety issues arising from trucks are justified because trucks serve a purpose? And bc 4wds serve no purpose they should be banned? What if you had a steep muddy driveway at home - is that purpose enough? What if you put your car up on springs so it was as high as a 4wd - should that car be banned as well? You see it all just gets too hard and thats why nothing is ever done.

Barsby
May 20th, 2005, 07:45 AM
the solution is simple, ban bull bars on all vehicles, and if u live in the country you should be able to apply for a permit to have one. Everyone who buys a 4WD should have to pass a special driving test and get a 4WD licence, and if they dont pass they should be banned from driving 4WD's, because personally i am sick of seeing 35 year old yuppy mums in there Volvo or BMW 4WD's that cant drive to save them self, yet they throw there weight around in a car they have no idea how to drive properly, something has to be done.

marty_k
May 20th, 2005, 08:08 AM
^^
I'll let you administer that at your own expense.

I don't have a problem with 4WDs themselves. It's the idiots driving them that I have issues with. Problem is, idiot drivers aren't confined to 4WDs -- they are everywhere, thus complicating the dilemma.

Dilaz89
May 20th, 2005, 11:14 AM
imo ban the things, espeacially from city streets. it wouldnt be sooo bad if people used them for what they were made for. I totally agree with jayt. i fuking hate suburban mums who drive them and think they own the rd.

Auxodium
July 9th, 2005, 09:57 PM
well not ban them, but there must be a huge surcharge IF IT IS BOUGHT FOR CITY RESIDENTS. country residents should get a REBATE or a discount on them. i mean where i live the only 'rugged terrain' is a curbside and a local shopping centre carpark :p