[Disclaimer: I have been updating the list below every time something new comes up. Some of the things I say may not make sense, so please focus primarily on the list and ignore the rest of the content.]

Downtown Raleigh has surprised many of us during the last few years with several projects that promise to make downtown a livable and desirable place. Successful revitalization efforts have converted several areas of downtown into destinations, placing them at the top of our "areas to watch" list. There was a short period of time when announcements came out as if the sky was the limit (in terms of numbers, not height).

By far, the largest project was Two Progress Plaza's 19-story tower, which is currently hosting many of the company's employees; I am not sure whether the HQ were actually relocated into that building. The importance of this project can be easily demonstrated by the announcements of many more plans, some of which are nearing completion. The list of projects keeps growing, mainly thanks to residential infills that replace surface lots and underutilized space. So, allow me to provide a list of what's coming up:

RECENTLY COMPLETED:

Quorum Center (http://www.thereynoldscompanies.com/residences) - 15 stories (mixed-use); information on the web site is not up-to-date.
Paramount (http://www.theparamount.info) - 10 stories (residential).
The Hudson (http://www.hudsonraleigh.com) - 5 stories (residential w/ street-level retail/restaurant/TV station).
Carlton Plaza - 3 stories (residential w/ street-level retail).
Reopening of Fayetteville Street (Phase 1). (http://www.raleighnc.gov/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_0_2_306_203_0_43/http%3B/pt03/DIG_Web_Content/project/public/livable_streets/Fayetteville.htm)

UNDER CONSTRUCTION:

RBC Plaza (http://www.highwoods.com/HIWMain/PropertyDetail.aspx?id=5185c47e-36d5-4b14-9492-b48e1fc4ffa3) and RBC Plaza Condos (http://www.rbcplazacondos.com)- 32 stories/538ft (mixed-use).
Convention Hotel (http://www.raleigh-nc.org/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_0_2_306_203_0_43/http%3B/pt03/DIG_Web_Content/project/public/livable_streets/Hotel.htm) - 16 stories (hospitality).
West At North (http://www.westatnorth.com) - 15 stories; 194 residential units and 17,000sf of retail space. Gregg Sandreuter is the developer.
The Hue (http://www.hueraleigh.com/) (former Nash) - 7 stories; 208 condo units (residential w/ retail/restaurants).
222 Glenwood (http://www.222Glenwood.com) - 117 units in 7 stories (residential w/ street-level retail/restaurant).
Convention Center (http://www.rccproject.com/home.asp) - 500,000 sf of space; something equivalent to 5-6 stories in height (convention).
Bloomsbury Estates (http://www.bloomsburyestates.com) - Two 7-story mid-rises totalling 111 units (residential).
Palladium Plaza (http://www.palladiumplaza.com) - 5 stories (residential).
712 Tucker (http://www.712tucker.com/) (former Raleigh Office Supply) - 175 residential units (condos and apartments) in 4 and 5 floors (residential).
APPROVED & PROPOSED:

The Edison 1 (aka Block "B") - 38 floors (hotel, condos, retail).
The Edison 2 (aka Block "B") - 24 floors (office, retail).
Reynolds Tower I - 23 stories (residential/hotel/retail).
Site 1 (North Tower) (http://www.raleighnc.gov/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_0_2_306_203_0_43/http%3B/pt03/DIG_Web_Content/project/public/livable_streets/cultural_convention_responses.htm) - 20 stories (mixed-use).
Site 4/The Lafayette (http://www.thelafayette-raleigh.com/) - 22 stories (boutique hotel, offices, condos, restaurant; at the surface lot enclosed by Lenoir/Salisbury/South streets).
Clarence Lightner Public Safety Center - 15 stories of offices for the City of Raleigh's new headquarters facility for Police and Fire Departments.
Site 1 (South Tower) (http://www.raleighnc.gov/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_0_2_306_203_0_43/http%3B/pt03/DIG_Web_Content/project/public/livable_streets/cultural_convention_responses.htm) - 14 stories (residential/retail).
630 North Street (http://www.northstreet.info) - 11 stories (residential/offices/retail). The top 7 floors will feature 48 residential condos. 2 floors of office condos, 2 floors of parking space, ground floor retail and 2 underground levels of parking.
Boylan Flats (http://www.boylanflats.com/) - 5 stories (residential w/ street-level retail), totalling 9 units.
The L-Building (Davie/McDowell Streets) - 7 stories (offices w/ street-level retail).
Green Square - 5-6 stories (offices/museum).
111 Seaboard - 4 stories (residential w/ street-level retail/restaurants).
The Glen on Peace (http://www.theglenonpeace.com) - 4 stories (residential w/ retail).
Franklin Street Plaza - 3 stories (residential w/ street-level retail/restaurants).
Reopening of Fayetteville Street (Phase 2). (http://www.raleighnc.gov/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_0_2_306_203_0_43/http%3B/pt03/DIG_Web_Content/project/public/livable_streets/Fayetteville.htm)
ENVISIONED:

Sheraton atrium/414 Fayetteville Str- 25-30 stories (mixed-use).
Winston Hotels - 25 stories (hotels/residential).
Reynolds Tower II - 15 stories (offices).
Martin/Wilmington streets - 20+ stories (residential w/ street-level retail and top-floor restaurant).
Hillsborough Str/Glenwood Ave (SW corner) - 15-20 stories (residential).
N&O Offices - 10-15 stories of office space for News & Observer (offices).
Courthouse extension - 9 stories, but equivalent to 15 regular floors. It could go higher (offices).
Contemporary Art Museum (residential tower) (http://www.camnc.org/about/future.html) - 8-12 stories; 32-50 condo units and possibly 7,000 or office/retail space (residential w/ retail).
David Allen Buildings - Empire Properties' proposal for an urban complex; something up to 10 stories (mixed-use).
Metropolitan (http://www.floriancompanies.com/the%20metropolitan.html) - 124 units in ~8 floors (residential).
Hillsborough & St Mary's - Currently, a Capitol Broadcasting property. 150-200 units; possibly something around 5-6 stories (residential).
Hillsborough & Boylan (SE corner) - another mid-rise; I do not foresee anything above 5 stories (residential).
South Wilmington & Fayetteville - A new proposal, by Empire Properties, for a 5-6 story residential building and renovation of an existing art deco low-rise. Not exactly downtown, but the area will be incorporated into the core once development flourishes in the South End (mixed-use).
Jones & St Mary's - Two 4-story buildings, totaling 40-50 units (residential).
Intermodal Center (http://www.raleighnc.gov/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_0_2_306_203_0_43/http%3B/pt03/DIG_Web_Content/project/public/livable_streets/tta.htm).
Riverwalk.
SMALL AREA PLANS - These plans guarantee a mixed-use environment with several mid-rises, low-rises, townhomes and single houses:

Moore Square/City Market.
Blount Street Commons (http://www.blountstreetcommons.com/).
South End (http://www.raleighnc.gov/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_0_2_306_203_0_43/http%3B/pt03/DIG_Web_Content/project/public/livable_streets/cultural_convention.htm).
Warehouse District/TTA planned station area.

All of the above projects justify the increasing excitement that Raleighites feel about their downtown. Even after the completion of these projects, however, DT Raleigh has a VERY long way to go before we can place it in pars with more established downtowns (e.g. Portland, Richmond, Austin). Our city does not play in the major league, where cities like NY, Atlanta and Seattle play; currently, we are a mid-size city, without a great vision and unable to see beyond 5-10 years. Raleigh is still searching for identity, beyond its status as the capital city of North Carolina, which makes things difficult.

Anyway, the purpose of this thread is not to make Raleigh look little and vision-less, but everyone needs to keep in mind that we don't shoot for the sky, something reflected on the numerous mid-rise projects listed above. Our skyline will get a boost when Quorum Center gets completed, along with the South End developments and the Reynolds Tower. If the latter gets delivered as DT Raleigh's new tallest tower, we may not see similar developments for a while, but we'll definitely see an increase in density, especially around the South End.

After looking at the above list (which is not necesarily complete), what are your thoughts about the future of DT Raleigh? Even though we have talked about this in the past, the list I posted should make it easier to follow the progress. Not included above are numerous mid-rises and low-rises that will emerge as the result of Small Area Plans becoming reality. I can easily see another 10-15 midrises being built, but to speculate on the height would be foolish. Let your imagination go wild and picture DT Raleigh for the next 5-10 years.

Thank you, Raleigh-NC, for putting this together. We've been without any major announcements for a while, and this will help tide me over. I don't see anything you've left off the list, however, are the Metropolitan and Bloosbury Estates really going to happen? Or did it end up a casualty of the post-9/11 economy forever?

I would love to see 4 or 5 30+ story buildings in downtown Raleigh, and the employees/residents to fill them up, but I don't see that happening either. I think if I had a wish list of three things off of your "Envisioned" category, I would choose:

Reynolds Tower (obvious reasons)
RBC Centura (Bring another HQ to downtown and possibly some height)
Either the boutique or Hilton (we need more hotel rooms downtown)

Thanks for the work you put into this list, it reminded me of a few things I had forgotten!

Justin, I am glad the list helped you :) To answer your questions, Neither Metropolitan, nor Bloomsbury Estates I & II have been cancelled. In fact, the developers expressed interest to take another look into their visions and see if they can break ground later this year, or early next year. The problem with both projects is the uncertainty behind TTA's regional rail. Not to mention that the locations are not necessarily the best :( Many projects were stalled, with developers using 9/11 as the excuse, but in all honesty these projects were stalled before then. Which shows that interest for living and working in DT Raleigh was low before 9/11. If anything, 9/11 should have helped Raleigh to get 2-3 corporate relocations from NYC.

Your wish is my wish too :) I would have been satisfied if DT Raleigh was to gain 4-5 new towers above 30 stories, but we both know how hard this would be, at least for the next 10 years. Outside Reynolds & Reynolds' proposal for a new tallest - assuming it will happen - the norm for our downtown will be towers around 15 stories, which is ok with me, if they are placed properly. So far, the vision is solid, even though the towers that will replace both east and west wings of the current convention center are not tall enough to make a huge difference. The boutique hotel will most likely happen at least as envisioned (8+ stories), but the Hilton vision for Glenwood South will be something that has 50-50 chances.

The biggest challenge will be RBC/Centura. Speculations and rumors maintain that the bank will eventually move to DT Raleigh, but this is a very uncertain proposal until it happens. It is of extreme importance that RBC/Centura's leaders choose a location somewhere in DT Raleigh, and that they establish their HQ in a tower that will be visible from afar. A 12-story mid-rise may not provide them with the desired image, while a 15-story tower is a better proposition. Progress Energy has fought along with the city leaders to attract RBC/Centura, which makes me believe that the land will be provided by the former. Here is the catch: Progress Energy may offer one of the three parcels: 1) the surface lot next to Hudson, 2) the lot adjacent to One Progress Plaza (former site for the cancelled Lichtin Bldg proposal) and 3) North of Two Progress Plaza. Options 1 and 3 will be a disaster, mainly because those lots are the only ones that can hold something of considerable size (25+ stories). Option 2 will force RBC/Centura to go below 13 stories, mainly because of stupid limitations that Progress Energy put in place; it is an ego thing.

There is one more assumption: RBC/Centura may move into the proposed Reynolds Tower, which is great because the latter is not going to be limited to one company. If there are already enough tenants to occupy 10 floors (from what I heard), I cannot see why not RBC/Centura cannot take over another 15. Which will leave another 7-12 stories for residential/hospitality use - here is your 32-37 story tower. Of course, it is easy to speculate, and while some people even mentioned SunTrust's regional HQ move into the Reynolds Tower (doubtful, if you ask me), I am not certain what to believe. RBC/Centura cannot expand to its maximum potential at its current location, nor it can play where the big players already are. DT Raleigh (and Durham, why not?) may offer the opportunity for RBC/Centura to jump higher and stand taller than before.

There may be a dark horse, and I truly hope it proves to be: First Citizens Bank (FCB)... Their move to the outskirts of Raleigh was not the most brilliant move they ever made. Recently, they announced a move to North Hills, in a location that already hosts one of their buildings. The plan calls for an 80,000+ sf building, which will serve as the new HQ for FCB. What is going to be the next move? DT Raleigh, I would like to assume. Their abandoned plans for a georgeous 30-story tower was a huge mistake and I am sure they have realized it, although their time has not come yet to resurrect that project. Not that I strongly believe this, but the chance is still there. If city leaders get serious about corporate relocations, I don't see any company better than FCB to make the top of the list.

I agree, Thanks a lot for putting this list together, Raleigh-NC. Here are my comments:
Hillsborough & Oberlin - another mid-rise; I do not foresee anything above 5 stories (residential).
I hope this is going to be on the NCSU-owned surface parking or in place of the modern, suburban building with a parking lot out front. Don't tear down the 3-story Darryl's building, it's among a rare breed of historic, attractive buildings on Hillsborough. I'd much rather see that one redeveloped with retail/restaurant on the ground and residential above it.

Peace & Oberlin - 4 stories (residential w/ retail).Er, there's no Peace/Oberlin intersection... do you mean Clark & Oberlin? If so, is this part of the long-promised but never-delivered residential component to Cameron Village? Or, are you talking about Oberlin Village, which is at Oberlin & Wade?

OOOOPS!!!! I meant Hillsborough/Boylan and Peace/Boylan :( I will edit my original posting to reflect the correct addresses.

Nice list. Thanks. :)

I really have high hopes for the Metropolitan. If they can make a residential building work in that location, I think it will make the land to the North and East of there more attractive for further residential development. I also think the location is a lot more attractive now than when it was first proposed. Nanas Chophouse, Humble Pie, and a few clubs have opened to extend West streets “scene” further South. Also the freight depot restoration, although unoccupied, holds promise. Two keys may be the TTA station being built, and West street being reconnected from Martin to Cabarrus Street as proposed in the Warehouse district small area plan. I also hope the convention center construction will help by showing vitality in the area.

There may be a dark horse, and I truly hope it proves to be: First Citizens Bank
I afraid you shouldn’t get your hopes up about First Citizens. I was devastated when they canceled their plans in downtown (for a while it looked like there might be three 30 story buildings going up at the same time). They own the former BTI building (the former former Cameron Brown building) plus the little round building across Lassiter Mill Road, a five story building that fronts Rowan Street, several of the houses on Camelot Drive (some already torn down). All of these lots are conterminous except one. I think they want to control the whole block bounded by Six Forks, Lassiter Mill, Camelot, and Rowan Streets except for the two bank buildings facing Six Forks. Along with the BTI building, that gives them quite a lot of property in an attractive location (across from the “New North Hills” plus the additional property that Kane has optioned close by). Also I don’t think they control the property on Fayetteville Street any more. (I almost typed Mall)


Orulz, I think Raleigh-NC means the corner of Peace and Boylan just North of the Paramount

Fantastic list Ernest. I was impressed by it in the email you sent yesterday.

Thanks for your work on this Raleigh-NC. Great stuff. I am thinking about doing one for Greensboro if I can put enough peices of information together.

The RBC Centura possibility is interesting. RBC Centura has said that their #1 priority is to improve profitability. Whether that has anything to do with them possibly moving their headquarters I do not know. But I do believe it when they say that they will continue to keep a large footprint in Rocky Mount. My guess is that any shift toward Raleigh would be done in the most cost-effective manner, meaning that they would likely not invest anymore than they would have to. Leasing space in a new tower might be most suitable for them. Too bad they wouldn't consider Greensboro though, we don't have a bank of any real size. :(

Thanks for the clarification.

Hillsborough/BoylanWhat a great location! Near Downtown, Glenwood South, within spittin' distance of the TTA station, and (best of all) right next to Char Grill. But before anyone builds on that corner, the city absolutely NEEDS to do something about that damned offset intersection (http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=4&S=8&Z=17&X=14249&Y=79243&W=3)... that's a pain in the butt to navigate and a traffic hazard to boot. There's more than enough space to realign it through the parking lots of the auto repair shops on the corner.

At this point my financial indutry sources say it is very likely that RBC will be bought by an out of state Bank...so you can basically forget about RBC Centura moving its HQ to Raleigh.

Thanks, everyone!!! Let's hope that the list will be revisited and enriched within the next 12 months. I will certainly try to keep it alive with construction updates for these projects. Naturally, some of these developments will be finished and make room for new proposals.

@Raleighmark: Well said... Yes, the lot that FCB would have built their tower no longer belongs to them - Progress Energy owns it now, but I am not sure they know what to do with it. Their decision not to build a tower was definitely a bad one and I hope they will eventually understand the mistake they made. I won't hold my breath for FCB to move to DT Raleigh in the nearest future, but think about this: From South Raleigh, to North Hills in less than 10 years (if I remember correctly). Why not move to DT Raleigh within the next 10 years? A dream, of course, but nevertheless a nice one :)

@astro: Can't wait to see a big list of DT Greensboro projects. You guys may not get towers in the core, but there are lots of nice additions under way. I meant to ask for that list ;)

@Flash: the list I sent you wasn't as accurate, but I am sure you got some better idea with the one I posted here. I think you will agree that even these projects won't be enough to make a huge difference in the fabric of downtown. They will give us, however, lots of material for construction threads ;)

@orulz: That was a great image :okay: I agree with you, that intersection is a great candidate for some major improvements. Maybe a traffic circle would help that area. Anyway, the city has been considering several roundabouts for Hillsborough Street, although I am not sure they will help the traffic by doing so. Maybe 2-3 roundabouts would make sense, and the intersection of Boylan and Hillsborough is most qualified. We'll see.

@uptownliving: I have honestly stopped counting much on RBC/Centura :( On the other hand, until it gets finalized, we still maintain some hope. Ask your sources if RBC may let Centura operate separately, or merge with a local bank. I find it hard to believe that RBC will be bought, unless you meant its Centura branch. Cross your fingers for a miracle. Who knows, maybe SunTrust will be interested, thus keeping Centura alive in this area. I mean, it is still an out-of-state bank, but their focus may remain in this region. Whether RBC/Centura or SunTrust/Centura, DT Raleigh may still have a chance. Of course, I am speculating...

@orulz: That was a great image :okay: I agree with you, that intersection is a great candidate for some major improvements. Maybe a traffic circle would help that area. Anyway, the city has been considering several roundabouts for Hillsborough Street, although I am not sure they will help the traffic by doing so. Maybe 2-3 roundabouts would make sense, and the intersection of Boylan and Hillsborough is most qualified. We'll see. I agree. A roundabout at Morgan/Hillsborough makes great sense to me. So does Hillsborough/Pullen/Oberlin. I can't really envision it anywhere else. I'd be leery about installing one at Hillsborough/Boylan because Hillsborough probably needs to be a four lane road at that point. Larger, two-lane roundabouts are confusing to navigate and take up too much space.

I think that a simple realignment of the intersection to remove the offset would be plenty.

Actually, there is one more place where it makes sense: at the intersection where Reader's Corner and Sotos International garage are. That spot is designed just as badly and carries a lot of traffic. The city will have to take over some private properties, but there is no other way they can solve the problem. Now, the problem is that the NIMBY-driven effort to "revitalize" Hillsborough Street, while genuine, is also very short-sighted. These people want to convert a 4-lane road into a 2-lane road :no: Their idea of traffic calming is to reduce the amount of space used by cars and place roundabouts everywhere. Hopefully, the city will not go with that idea. If roundabouts are necessary, then four lanes must be used, otherwise the city must find better ways to "calm" the traffic... not that I think it is necessary.

Instead of placing roundabouts, the city should consider light rail along Hillsborough Street; maybe a turn on Morgan, through downtown and all the way to WakeMed Hospital. That line may prove to be more useful than most people think, especially if it connects with Rex Hospital. New Bern Ave may prove to be a great candidate for denser urban projects... Ooooops!!! I am daydreaming, again :lol:

UPDATE: Bloomsbury Estates

About 15 minutes ago I received an email from a friend of mine, who is working as an architect for one of the major firms in the Triangle. He is always very cautious with words, modest and very careful about what he says... At least this is my evaluation of him. Anyway, he mentioned to me about a site currently used for CAT buses, at the intersection of Boylan & Hargett. Well, that is the site for Bloomsbury Estates. In his email he mentioned that the site will soon be cleared for construction and he also told me about a mixed-use mid/high-rise that will go there. Just for the record, this is what Bloomsbury Estates will look like:

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/BloomsburyEstates/BloomsburyEstates-RaleighNC-2.jpg

The firm that designs this project is Perkins & Will (http://www.perkinswill.com/) from Chicago. They seem to have good reputation, considering their list of clients and the type of projects they undertake. I did not see anything that matches the above image, which leads me to believe that there is a chance we'll see something different, and possibly larger than what was planned earlier. I will not speculate on what may happen, but I will keep you posted for anything new.

UPDATE: Bloomsbury Estates

This past weekend I passed by the site and I saw that the lot has been prepared for construction. It is official that instead of two buildings, there will be only one built. If what I saw in the flyer - at the DowntownRaleigh.com's Artsplosure booth, this weekend - is close to the final design, we are talking about a very elegant building, far superior to the image posted above. Anyway, I made a few changes to the above postings to reflect the updated information. I am not sure if a Bloomsbury Estates twin will actually be built later, but for now the plan is for a 5-story low-rise.

UPDATE: Bloomsbury Estates

This past weekend I passed by the site and I saw that the lot has been prepared for construction. It is official that instead of two buildings, there will be only one built. If what I saw in the flyer - at the DowntownRaleigh.com's Artsplosure booth, this weekend - is close to the final design, we are talking about a very elegant building, far superior to the image posted above. I should hope so. The first thing one notices looking at that elevation is that there is no entrance of any sort facing the street. They can (and should) do so much better in an urban location like that. As it is, it just looks suburban with its only entrance facing the parking lot, Whooptee-doo. Does a locking entrance that addresses the street really have a negative impact on security at all?? Sheesh. If the TTA station ever happens, a lack of entrances on the front will force all the residents to walk around the building through the parking lot to get there. That's just stupid.

Orulz, the [original] placement of the two buildings left a lot to be desired :( If you take a look at the following link, you will see what I mean:

http://www.treklite.com/boylan/images/bloomsbury_site.pdf

Turning the orientation of each building 90 degrees to the right would have made them far more urban, thus hiding the parking from the pedestrians. However, I am not sure how the new concept will be different, in terms of building placement. A truly urban design has the at least one main door on the front, which is not obvious from the rendering. An L-shaped building would have made far more sense and I will be unplesantly surprised if the developer doesn't end up doing that (assuming they go with one building vs. two buildings). Take a look at the following link for a better idea of what the site looks like:

http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=4&S=8&Z=17&X=14248&Y=79237&W=3&qs=boylan+ave%7craleigh%7cnc&Addr=N+Boylan+Ave%2c+Raleigh%2c+NC+27605&ALon=-78.6486994&ALat=35.7886101

Looking at the image, it would be easy to recognize some good alternatives to the proposed arrangement of the building(s). Either an L-shaped (long side along Hargett Str), or a U-shaped design could do just fine; I favor the former because the developer can place the vehicle entrance to the West, thus "extending" St Mary's street. This may also create some problems, as people may think of that "entrance" as a public street and drive through it, although it should make it obvious that it will lead to a dead-end (railroad tracks). What the developer can do is incorporate the entrance into the building structure - I've seen this in Europe and looks VERY urban and elegant - in a similar fashion with the proposed Palladium Plaza (DT Raleigh), or Station Nine (Erwin Square, Durham).

The biggest advantages of this project are location and design. The major contribution is the strengthening of the residential base of that area. Let's keep in mind that there are two more proposals in the vicinity of Bloomsbury Estates: Boylan/Hillsborough and St. Mary's/Hillsborough. Both projects will add large numbers of residents. What the developers need to consider is retail on the ground floor, something that Boylan Heights needs in order to become a more desirable location. I am not talking about unique/exclusive shops, cater to a few individuals, but more popular destinations. What the heck, even a bookstore would do.

The next 3-5 years are going to be very interesting for the city :-)

I just wish RBC would make up their mind, I mean we are the #2 place to do business!
It'd be interesting to see if Suntrust makes a play: I know they already have a tower in Durham (not sure if its been designated regional hq, some departmenal hq or anything) but with the amount that they are planning on expanding in the Carolina's, I could easily see them making Raleigh "their city" in NC. It'd be interesting to see if we can get a tower out of it (regional hq, state hq or some departmental hq: by departmental hq, I think our BB&T tower houses the insurance division hq or something like that) If I were Suntrust and I wanted visiblity in the area, Charlotte is not the place to go unless I was prepared to spend a lot to get out of the shadow of BoA and Wachovia. It'd be easy to go to Raleigh and have a "SunTrust center" that stands out in the eastern/central part of the state. (Actually Gboro, Winston and Durham for that matter as well.)

RBC is not coming to Raleigh...you can just forget about them. Focus your energies on a company with money...not RBC Centura.

Charlotte has tremendous infrastructure for operating banking/finance-related HQ, but like romec suggested, any bank that would like to establish regional HQ should give Triangle a thought. While we lack the infrastructure of Charlotte, we do provide a good environment for doing business. If RBC/Centura doesn't make it in the long run - let's not even consider them as a future downtown tenant, for now - someone else will, hopefully with plans for something taller than 12-15 stories, more stability and better future.

The name SunTrust wasn't thrown into the discussion as a joke. Those who have seen the drawings for the proposed Reynolds tower - I am not one of them, unfortunately - mentioned something about a SunTrust-like logo on the top of the tower. In early discussions about the proposal, the possibility about four financial companies moving into the new skyscraper was mentioned. There are rumors, and I repeat rumors, that SunTrust may establish regional HQ in Raleigh, without hurting its Durham operations. Considering proposals and rumors, it would be safe to assume that Raleigh may be among the best choices for SunTrust.

Of course, we are speculating a lot, which creates momentum and enthusiasm, but even without speculations we should be glad for what we are getting. Skeptics may argue that things can go wrong, but even if 50% of what is listed in my original post gets delivered, we have good reasons to be happy and optimistic. As I said many times in the past, even if all these projects materialize, our urban fabric will still be no match for what is the norm. In other words, for a visitor who happens to be a fan of urbanity, DT Raleigh has a very long way to go, especially in terms of high-rises. We are not claiming to be something we are not, but we need to speed things up and put some big projects in place. The progress made in the case of Bloomsbury Estates is a positive sign and I hope this to be followed by another nice urban infill: The Metropolitan.

I like the list of projects that dt has lined up. There are a lot of reasons for optimism. Projects tend to build upon one another's success. I think the new convention center and hotel(s) once built will spur a lot of development. Just takes patience, which is not easy of course. In the mean time though we can enjoy what we already have.

I am interested to see what Bloomsbury will look like.

I thought that i stated a while back, that Suntrust tower (CCB Tower) in Durham is the regional HDQ.

ejohnson, SunTrust is preparing a much bigger expansion to this area. What they have now may serve as regional HQ, but I don't think SunTrust is going to stay in that level. No matter what happens, I have heard that their commitment to DT Durham will remain strong, regardless. What I am talking about is their future presence in this area, not the current one. In all honesty, DT Durham deserves the regional HQ.

I saw this on WRAL today...sounds like a good deal for business owners downtown. I hope some of the businesses on Wilmington Street take this grant and use it wisely...some of the buildings, especially behind the Hudson, could really use some work. I was also wondering what would end up going in the old Raleigh Times building. I think thats a nice place for a bar...not too terribly far from City Market and right beside Fayetteville STREET (trying to get used to not calling int Fay. St. Mall)

Raleigh expands downtown facade grants (http://www.wral.com/news/4532732/detail.html)

Any facelift of the older buildings is a good sign because most of them can be renovated and serve a purpose. Along Wilmington Street there is a mix of decent and useless low-rises, but we'll hopefully get something nice to replace the ones that appear as eyesores ;)

Thanks for the link, Justin.

Raleigh has the problem that I think many NC downtowns have: too many surface parking lots. Too much valuable space is used by massive, sprawling parking lots that could instead be mixed-use structures or parking garages with street-level shops/restaurants built around the base. Maybe if the Triangle gets its rail act together, and draws some more business downtown, they can get rid of some of the lots.

Surface lots have definitely been an eyesore for all major NC cities. Much of history has been destroyed to their favor, but I can't blame the developers/land owners for everything. The exit to the suburbs definitely caused much of that; why would anyone maintain an old building if the tenants are not there? One can probably make more money from a parking lot than a building that sits there empty. DT Raleigh's case is a bit strange, though. After the completion of the new Convention Center the perception about surface lots should change a bit... but just a little. For the most part, South End and North Blount Street plans will achieve a lot more in filling the gaps and changing perceptions. The toughest part will be to fill the lots directly to the north of the new convention center and the space between Deveraux and Dawson condo buildings. As for Glenwood South, it is only a matter of time, based on the way that area develops.

Another "eyesore" when one looks at DT Raleigh from the air, is the numerous parking decks. Seriously, there is a large number of decks - for our standards - that from the air gives you the impression of surface lots :( Call this poor planning, lack of vision, or anything you will, but these decks do nothing to help Raleigh's image. To be fair, some of them integrate in a decent fashion, but still, they remove opportunities for urban feel. Parking decks should be underground, or incorporated into the structure of a high-rise. I know it is more expensive to do the right thing, but that is the only way to remove all those eyesores. I don't see the surface lots disappear in the next 10 years, but I do anticipate a large number of projects to fix part of the problem. The worst part is when you look at some of those lots and compare that image with old photos, from the times when DT Raleigh was a true urban center, with mixed-use and vibracy evident in every aspect of its life :(

Naturally, this thread moved to the inactive state, but I would like to bring it back to the top. I have made a few changes, mainly adding links to several projects, just so you can all get more information on each project. Unfortunately, many projects don't even have a website, but for those that do I tried to include links.

Aside a few changes (updates) I made in the list, I would like to present a few renderings for Bloomsbury Estates, the two mid-rises planned for the South-West part of the intersection of Boylan Ave and Hargett Str. There is another thread where more renderings have been displayed, but I will share just a few in this one:

Looking towards the East:
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/BloomsburyEstates/BloomsburyEstates-RaleighNC-3.jpg

Looking towards the North-West:
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/BloomsburyEstates/BloomsburyEstates-RaleighNC-16.jpg

Both images are captured from the video presentation of the project. I highly recommend taking the tour (link to the project's site is provided in my original post):
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/BloomsburyEstates/BloomsburyEstates-RaleighNC-6.jpg http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/BloomsburyEstates/BloomsburyEstates-RaleighNC-13.jpg

Those of you familiar with the original plan will notice two major changes: 1) the height was increased by 1 floor (from 5 to 6) and 2) the number of units seems to be up (from 68 to 94). If there is an error somewhere, be sure that I will fix it, but so far this is what I discovered after taking the virtual tour of the project.

^I'm absolutely LOVING the architecture. ;)

Lots of brick, too :) I can envision this type of condo buildings all over North Blount Street and anywhere within historic neighborhoods. Glad to see that someone cares to do something different, for a change. Hopefully, the final project will look just as nice, if not better.

More news and more developments. First, the rumors about RBC/Centura's new tower being speculated as a 25-30 stories high-rise, up from the 15-story tower originally envisioned. There is a thread about it in the Southeast section of SSC, so I will spare you any details.

Also important is a new proposal/vision, although a much smaller one, for a 7-story condo mid-rise, between Park Deveraux and The Dawson. You can read more on this in the N&O article, titled Condos, retail planned on prime lot (http://www.newsobserver.com/business/v-printer/story/2791301p-9230376c.html), but here is an excerpt:

RALEIGH -- A group of developers is planning to build one of downtown's biggest condominium projects on a coveted lot between three blossoming sections of the City of Oaks.

A partnership that includes Trammell Crow Residential and York Ventures plans to build about 160 condominiums on a 1.7-acre parking lot at the northwest corner of Dawson and Hargett streets, said Settle Dockery, a partner in York Ventures with former mayor Smedes York.

The lot is west of City Hall and adjacent to downtown's most recent condominium development, the 58-unit Dawson on Morgan.

Preliminary plans call for a seven-story building with about 10,000 square feet of retail space. Construction likely will take several years and may not begin for more than a year. York said the development group has a contract to purchase the site but wouldn't say when the deal might close.

Well, nothing like the envisioned towers (14 and 9 stories, if memory serves me well), brought to the city officials several years ago, but nevertheless a great addition to DT Raleigh's urban fabric; yet-another large parking lot will disappear, helping us strengthen the transitional area from the CBD to the Warehouse District.

The news about DT Raleigh developments continue to arrive. Today's N&O, in an article titled Building higher together (http://www.newsobserver.com/business/v-printer/story/2794144p-9234226c.html) offered an insight of the troubles of filling up the space for the proposed 32-story tower by Reynolds & Reynolds, but also a ray of hope, as the same developers reveal a vision for an adjacent tower that could reach 15-stories. Here is an excerpt from the article:

The duo also has proposed a 32-story building on land bounded by Hillsborough, Dawson and Morgan streets. And they're working on a deal that could bring a 15-story office building to the southeast corner of Harrington and Hillsborough.

The second piece of news refers to RBC/Centura's relocation to DT Raleigh and the possibility for a tower around 30 stories. This time, Triangle Business Journal presents officially what its Managing Director, Dale Gibson, mentioned in his interview, with WPTF-680, on Friday morning. The article is titled Business partners of RBC Centura may join move (http://triangle.bizjournals.com/triangle/stories/2005/09/12/story5.html?t=printable).

I know that this thread feels like a monologue, but it was formed so we can dump all the news about construction and projects in Downtown Raleigh. Hopefully it is a useful thread to all of you who want to know more about the core area of Raleigh.

Not much news, except for some updates on the courthouse extension - as well as its parking decks :bash: - and the new HQ for the News & Observer (our major local publication). Let me start with a link to the article that provides more detailed information on these two projects:

Wake plans new building, parking deck (http://www.newsobserver.com/business/v-printer/story/2796216p-9236828c.html)

In brief: The News & Observer Publishing Co. and Wake County are separately working on plans that could add more than 500,000sf of offices, courtrooms, meeting rooms and possibly condominiums and shops. Another 2000 parking spaces will also be added.

In the above link to the printer-friendly version there is a "table" missing, which exists in the "original" article. Since it is a great summary of the article, it would be nice for all of you to see it, so here it is:

WHAT'S PLANNED
Proposed Wake County parking deck. Could include up to 900 spaces, plus condominiums and retail space. To be built by 2008.
Proposed nine-story courthouse and six-story building to house Wake register of deeds, administration, public records, a meeting room totaling 445,0000 square feet, plus 400 parking spaces. To be complete in 2012.
Proposed 140,000-square-foot headquarters for The News & Observer. To be complete in 2009.
Proposed parking deck. Could include up to 1,400 spaces. Nearby sites could include condominiums, stores and possibly a library. To be complete in 2011.

Just a tiny bit of information concerning the Hillsborough Str & Boylan Ave project. There was a mention about this site today, in the N&O, and I thought some of you might be interested to know. Here is the link to the article (in fact, news briefs): From basement to bar (http://www.newsobserver.com/business/nc/hagel/v-printer/story/2804367p-9248115c.html). The only part that may be of interest is the following excerpt:

The Boulevard Co. of Charlotte, which specializes in infill projects, paid about $1.4 million in July for the former Tao Auto site on Hillsborough Street at Boylan Avenue and the adjacent American Cancer Society offices for a mixed-use project.

The price was about one-third above the tax value. Boulevard doesn't have concrete plans for the 0.67-of-an-acre site, but retail, office and residential are possible.

I don't know much about The Boulevard Co. (http://www.theboulevardcompany.com) - I assume we are talking about The Boulevard Company - but they seem to have some nice projects in their portfolio (i.e. Gateway Plaza). Unfortunately, they also have some lame ones, such as 605 West Main Street, in Carrboro; that is a hell of an uninspired building. Anyway, I would expect something that will be more focused on residential units. Given its proximity to several residential projects, including the vision for the Capitol Broadcasting site, exactly one block to the West, I would expect something around 5-6 stories, with anything above it being a bonus. Keep in mind that Bloomsbury Estates are about 2 blocks to the South.

I am not very fond of The Boulvard Co. They do solid projects...but as you said some of them are "uninspired"

Those people will have easy access to Char Grill...one of my fav places in all of Raleigh.

Those people will have easy access to Char Grill...one of my fav places in all of Raleigh.

Hells yeah :cheers:

I would think that one of the selling points will be proximity to Glenwood South. While this area isn't part of the latter, crossing Hillsborough would not be a difficult task if one wants to get to Raleigh's premiere entertainment area. Now, behind that project is Moonlight Pizza and if you visit the link I posted you will hear of one brewery coming up, across from Bloomsbury Estates. With 2 more [mostly-residential] projects coming up in the vicinity, we should see an improvement in pedestrian activity and streetscapes, and hopefully more destinations on the southern tip of Glenwood South.

Char-Grill is definitely a two-thumbs up place :okay: Oops, here is one more thumb :okay:

I hadn't heard about the Tao lot being sold. I was just down there for the Second Empire 5k run, and thought about how prime that real estate is. Hope nobody tries to displace the Char Grill, though, EVER. They're an institution, plain and simple. Their little building is straight out of 1962, and while it isn't exactly "urban" in form it's a neat, quirky design with great walk-up-ability that just plain rocks.

I've said it a billion times before but I hope they re-align the intersection of Hilsborough and Boylan. Man, that intersection sucks. It's offset in just the perfect way to make it really confusing and REALLY dangerous for motorists, bicyclists, and pedestrians alike. Really, all they need to do is take a chunk out of the parking lot for either of the auto repair shops across from Tao (the one across Hillsborough or the one across Boylan... or smaller chunks out of both.) That intersection is the bane of my existence.

Yes that intersection is bad news...a number of wrecks have occured there over the years.

Orulz, the vision for this corner was known for over a year now - in my list of projects it is not specified clearly though. The plans for the intersection, itself, are unknown to me, but I believe that a traffic circle could achieve a lot in changing things, dramatically. I also believe that any residential developments may force the city to take a closer look into creating a solution instead of observing the traffic. As for Char-Grill, I doubt it very seriously that it will ever go anywhere... unless financial reasons dictate such move. Char-Grill type of "developments" provide a great break from a more urban landscape. It is like this: you gotta have one :okay:

It is a bit hard to visualize this, but there are several urban projects under way, or proposed for that area. I mean, truly significant projects that will alter the landscape forever. I don't know what Boulevard Co. has in mind, but I would love to see something around 10 stories, or even above. It is feasible and it makes a lot of sense. Currently, there is nobody to be bothered by such a project; the nearby businesses have lots to gain from this building and they should be in favor. Boylan Heights, while in close proximity, is not a community directly affected. It will be interesting to see if this project will provide the transitional building that could "introduce" Reynolds Towers I & II.

Tell me the truth, what is a posting without images? I put together a little map of the known proposals, as well as the recently completed and on-going projects, which shows how the project we've been discussing relates to the area. (Read text below the image for more details.) The satellite photo shows that we still need work in order to complete the picture, but given the momentum, it should not take long before more proposals become public. Keep in mind that proposals A, B and D will make some surface lots disappear. Great news if you ask me, mainly because these are the most solid proposals, not that the others aren't.

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/maps/WestDTRaleighProjectMap1.jpg

Existing/On-going:
1. Quorum Center (15 floors)
2. The Dawson (5 floors)

Proposed:
A. Reynolds Towers I & II (32 and 15 floors)
B. Bloomsbury Estates (two 6-story buildings)
C. 222 Glenwood (9 floors; last time I heard)
D. York Ventures proposal (Dawson & Hargett; 7 floors)
E. Boulevard Co. proposal (Hillsborough & Boylan; low-rise, I assume)
F. Capitol Broadcasting (low-rise, I assume)
G. St Mary's & Jones proposal (two 4-story buildings; I heard they might be pushed to 7 floors)

Don't have much to share right now except for a few photos - not very fresh ones, I must admit - from the Person Street Plaza site, Seaboard Station and Village At Pilot Mill. Nothing major...

PERSON STREET PLAZA:
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/PersonStreetPlaza/DSCF2334s.jpg http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/PersonStreetPlaza/DSCF2336s.jpg

SEABOARD STATION:
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/SeaboardStation/DSCF2325s.jpg http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/SeaboardStation/DSCF2322s.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/SeaboardStation/DSCF2323s.jpg http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/SeaboardStation/DSCF2324s.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/SeaboardStation/DSCF2326s.jpg http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/SeaboardStation/DSCF2327s.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/SeaboardStation/DSCF2329s.jpg http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/SeaboardStation/DSCF2330s.jpg

VILLAGE AT PILOT MILL:
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/VillageAtPilotMill/DSCF2331s.jpg http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/VillageAtPilotMill/DSCF2333s.jpg

Yuck...what is up with those huge power lines in front of the pretty houses :(

Makes you wonder, right? Hopefully they will remove them, as they come from an era we want to forget (hint: Halifax Court). One of the reasons most of us have difficulty taking nice shots of Raleigh is the power lines... but Raleigh isn't the only city that suffers from this plague.

Since the RBC-Centura headquarters move is not officially in the "project" stage, I'm going to put this in the proper forum.

There was a story in the paper today about RBC choosing from two sites, either site 1 or the lot next to the Hudson. Site one, would be the first building you see when you drive into town down S. Salisbury, however much shorter than the Highwoods proposal on the former First Citizens lot.

The Highwoods proposal is still in the 25-30 story range according to the article. Greg Hatem is even encouraging the taller structure...

Read on... (http://www.newsobserver.com/104/story/365233.html)

*cheers* Go Highwoods Go! Go Highwoods Go! *grins*

I can see where that is a hard choice...go taller with less visability...or go shorter with more visability....hmmm choices choices.

^^
I am not sure how you came up with this conclusion, but here is the reality: Site 1 will offer less visibility to RBC, whether they go with 20 or 30 stories. Unless you enter the city from directly to the East or the South, the proposed tower on Site 1 will not be as visible in the future. From directly to the West, the visibility of Site 1 will be good, but not as good as in the middle of the CBD The NW angle will most likely obscure it. From the North, same thing. From NE, you are too far to distinguish RBC's logo, but the tower will be visible. For RBC to get visibility, they have to go above 25 stories, and to the center of the CBD. Having taken so many photos, from all angles, I can assure you that Site 1 will only temporarily offer great visibility to RBC. Once the rest of available sites get developed, it will be "lost" within a high-density cluster of towers, especially if RBC goes with 20 stories, or below.

Justin, Site 1 may not be as short as it appears. A friend of mine who works for the architect that designed the mid-rises for Site 1 told me that the tower has approached/hit 20 stories. Unfortunately, it is not officially announced, so the newspapers keep mentioning the 12-story (not 10-story) original idea, even though there is a quote in the article about some changes:
In June, a partnership of East-West Partners, White Oak Properties and Craig Davis Properties submitted a bid to the city to build two towers, one a 10-story office tower and the other a nine-story building with 118 condos. That bid, now directed at RBC Centura, has since undergone changes but has not been given approval, said Raleigh Mayor Charles Meeker.By the way, I posted in the thread you originally created for RBC-Centura: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=247222&page=9&pp=20. I think it will be better if we take this discussion over there... It makes more sense.

Does anyone think that Raleigh/Triangle's water problems will dampen the growth there? Raleigh is currently in Stage 2 water conservation levels with $200 fines to those who don't obey the new rules. They likely could move to Stage 3 in a couple weeks where all the restarants will be serving food on paper plates.

This can't be good. Is there a solution on the horizon?

That's a tough question, but using simple logic I would say that suburban growth may be hurt more than anything. If it takes you $2,000 in fines to keep your lawn green, I would think that many people will turn to more urban, denser communities. As you correctly pointed, restaurants will be forced to adopt new ways of solving problems, water waste being one of them. Unless it rains a lot, the threat is very real. The only good news is that the temperature will drop, beginning tonight, which makes it easier to retain some of the water, which otherwise evaporates during the warmer days. There are some chances for scattered t-storms today and some more rain on Monday, but to make up for the losses we need MUCH more than that :(

How are you guys doing down in Charlotte?.

Fine, we have plenty of water from the Catawba River. In fact surrounding counties that don't have access to the Catawba are trying to buy water from us to supplement their reservoirs. No water restrictions here.

Glad to hear that :okay: I wish we were in the same situation, but...

Well the City of Raleigh must certainly be looking at alternative sources for water. With the rapid growth there this problem will be a recurring one until it is fixed and if I were a resident I would vote out anyone that said "lets just wait on the rain".

If things are already this bad now, just imagine what it will be like come summer.

Trust me, this water thing is being blown out of proportion. We are only 8 inches below normal in rainfall. Do you realize how many time we have been twice that below normal?

This is not the southwest. You watch, we will be 8 inches above normal before you know it....and all the lakes will be back above normal lol

I believe the city is currently constructing a water treatment plan on Lake Benson to meet the short-term needs of the city. A reservoir planed on the Little River in eastern Wake County should supply the city on a more long-term basis.
The city should probably make water restrictions mandatory year round anyway (like Cary) just on general principals. The first stage isn’t that that restrictive anyway.

The city is also looking into possibly diverting water from crabtree creek into the resivoir. This should ease the situation a tad.

Amen to all that... Let's say that I do not wish to see the water levels drop even lower than they already have.

Btw I heard that Glen-Tree's name was changed to Soleil?

Soleil Center, I believe.

Yes, they even have a web sight www.soleilcenter.com although there isn't anything of substance yet, just a homepage.

Trust me, this water thing is being blown out of proportion. We are only 8 inches below normal in rainfall. Do you realize how many time we have been twice that below normal?

This is not the southwest. You watch, we will be 8 inches above normal before you know it....and all the lakes will be back above normal lol

I don't ever remember Level 2, almost Level 3 drought conditions happening in November....the summertime sure...it seems to happen every couple of years....but never in the Fall...if this coming summer is a drought like it was 2 years ago...then the Triangle is in for it.

Has anyone received the $1000 ticket for washing your car yet? My co-worker who lives in Raleigh is forced to wash her car in the dark and hope that no neighbors call her in.

You guys are fast!!!!!! I made a change in my web page and I was coming here to post something - there is another thread on this, however - but you guys beat me to the punch :lol: Here is a link for you: http://www.wral.com/news/5334592/detail.html

No fines for me... I take my car to a car wash place.

Yes, they even have a web sight www.soleilcenter.com although there isn't anything of substance yet, just a homepage.

Nice front page. Will be interesting to see who buys $1M+ condos to live next to a mall.

^^
I am more interesting to see who is going to buy the $3 million units!!! There was an article where there was a mention of someone from Las Vegas that reserved 2 units (didn't mention about the prices for those units). Come on uptownliving, make a reservation, too. It will be nice to have a place in a high-rise when you visit Raleigh :lol:

^^
I am more interesting to see who is going to buy the $3 million units!!! There was an article where there was a mention of someone from Las Vegas that reserved 2 units (didn't mention about the prices for those units). Come on uptownliving, make a reservation, too. It will be nice to have a place in a high-rise when you visit Raleigh :lol:

Well if 3 or 4 of us went in together on a unit then I could do it...but the only reason I would buy one is to watch the planes take off at the airport...and well that gets boring after an hour or so.

You forgot the snow-slides. Or, parachutting, if you don't mind the risk :)

Under Stage 2 restrictions, commercial car washes can still operate (at least on certain days of the week) but carwashing in your driveway will earn you a fine.

If restrictions go to Level 3, hopefully your co-worker will just (gasp) cope with having a dirty car? I can't think of any situation where having a clean car is really that important.

Water restrictions are in place for a reason. Without some sort of genuine need (which I can't imagine exists but I'll keep an open mind) I wouldn't feel sorry at all for your co-worker at all if she got caught and fined. She knows about both the restrictions and the fine. Perhaps she thinks the fine is a bluff? Regardless, ignoring the restrictions is a selfish act. Other people are conserving water, for what? So one person can make sure their Jeep stays shiny? Puh-lease.

Under Stage 2 restrictions, commercial car washes can still operate (at least on certain days of the week) but carwashing in your driveway will earn you a fine.

If restrictions go to Level 3, hopefully your co-worker will just (gasp) cope with having a dirty car? I can't think of any situation where having a clean car is really that important.

Water restrictions are in place for a reason. Without some sort of genuine need (which I can't imagine exists but I'll keep an open mind) I wouldn't feel sorry at all for your co-worker at all if she got caught and fined. She knows about both the restrictions and the fine. Perhaps she thinks the fine is a bluff? Regardless, ignoring the restrictions is a selfish act. Other people are conserving water, for what? So one person can make sure their Jeep stays shiny? Puh-lease.

Well she already got called in by a neighbor and fined once...so now she does it in the dark. I just think its funny. Her justification is that she doesn't water her lawn...so she thinks its fair for her to wash her car (its not a Jeep) once a month as opposed to watering her lawn 3 days a week.

Maybe she should just park her car under her sprinkler.

I added the word "News" in the title because I wanted to provide some space for ALL of us to share general news about DT Raleigh - still, there are a couple of active threads on Glenwood South and South End, for news specific to those areas.

You must have already read about this: Grocery lined up for downtown Raleigh center (http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/stories/2005/11/28/story5.html?t=printable). That's wonderful news because it will provide DT Raleigh with a much needed full service grocery store. More exciting, it won't be a big, chain super market :okay: Not that I have anything against super markets - I shop a lot in Harris Teeter - but a smaller grocery store would serve the existing population much better and fit easier in the fabric of DT Raleigh. I wish the owners best of luck!!! I will definitely consider shopping there as often as I can.

By now you have all heard about the proposal by RBC Centura and Highwoods for a new second tallest tower for DT Raleigh. The 29-story high-rise will include over 710,000sf of office, residential, retail and parking space, making it the largest mixed-use tower in the state - please correct me if I am wrong, I don't try to spread misinformation. There is some talk, by the developers, of scaling up, in order to make this project the tallest in DT Raleigh, but until something is confirmed I will my mouth shut... if this could ever be possible :lol:

I have updated the main list on the very first post, to include a link to RBC Centura's page. This is exciting news for Raleigh and we hope that RBC Tower will become the 4rd major catalyst for DT Raleigh's renewal effort; the first 3 are: Two Progress Plaza, the new convention center and the reopening of Fayetteville Street. Here are some preliminary renderings, courtesy of RBC Centura, Highwoods Properties and Cooper-Carry Architects:

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/RBC-CenturaTower/RBCTower-RaleighNC-5s.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/RBC-CenturaTower/RBCTower-RaleighNC-3m.jpg

There were a couple negative stories on the downtown Raleigh condo market in the recent issue of the Triangle Business Journal. One editorial piece even went as far as to say not to expect anymore new condo anouncements till 2008!

With the exception of the Paramount it seems that the other projects have had a hard sell. The Dawson downsized before they even went to construction, same with Palladium...and well the Hudson...not much good news out of there. The most recent annouced project is the RBC condos on top of their future HQ.

The Paramount is the only project that seems to have bucked the recent condo sales trend for downtown Raleigh. It hasn't sold out, but only a few units remain as construction nears completion.

So what gives? Why the lackluster sales environment for condos in downtown Raleigh? Has the market already been tapped out, or are the projects not selling well because the projects themselves are not desireble?

I'm really not too suprised at the statement about no new (large) condo announcements until 2008. 2008 is really going to be Raleigh's "coming out" party. All six blocks of Fayetteville Street from the capitol to memorial auditorium will be complete; the convention center will be open, two new hotels (the Mariott and the Lafayette) will be done, and finally the RBC tower will be open for business.

I expect a slow, steady stream of mid-rise announcements and construction in the Glenwood South area until then since that district's already "there." I can think of 4 projects between 4 and 8 stories in various stages of pre-construction, plus Quorum and Paramount. I see little reason for the momentum there to slack off.

But the rest of downtown is going to be under heavy construction until '08. Once it's done, then things will pick up again.

The article suggests that the key, right now, is affordability. Apparently there is a broad market for small units in the sub-$225k range, but there just isn't much demand in Raleigh for those 2000+ square foot, $700,000 condos.

We can all do our own research and come up with different results. So let me offer my take.

* Overbuilding: This has been the case with the suburban market for quite a few years, yet the developers continue, non-stop, doing exactly the same crap. The difference is, with 50% "occupancy", a condo project is normally a go.

* Failures: Hudson is most definitely the biggest failure of all downtown projects. And for a good reason. It is a matter of personal taste, and I do not mean to offend anyone, but who the Hell wants to live in a garage-looking condo building, right in the middle of the CBD? I am sure someone out there would care for such option, but can they afford the prices?

* Cost: Like orulz VERY nicely put it, affordability should be underlined here. The problem with downtown market is the over-supply of highly priced condo units. You simply get NOTHING for your money, and I know this to be the case with most places, not just Raleigh. The developers must start thinking more in terms of rental units and less of condo living.

* Stalled/delayed projects: In this case, I merely refer to The Metropolitan, Hudson and Palladium Plaza. Neither one is a show stopper, but it shows what happens when you try to be an early player, or a poor planner. We need them all to be successful, but we know one out of three will fail.

As is, DT Raleigh has seen a tremendous boom in all aspects. The momentum is there, the investments are huge, the interest is constantly increasing and the proposals are far from being scaled down. Outside Dawson - more of a pioneer project - the rest of the projects either was delivered as proposed, or scaled up, some of them significantly. Much of the condo developments will happen in Glenwood South, naturally, as the latter provides an opportunity for a true urban experience. Once the mixed-use spreads outside the Glenwood Ave portion, things will shift towards a truly city-feel approach of development. As it stands, I am pleased to see what has been proposed get under way, even without new proposals. I will be ecstatic if some developers see the need for high-density urban townhomes and detached homes for areas like Glenwood South, Mordecai, Boylan Heights and other places adjacent to downtown. 2008 will be very interesting year for DT Raleigh and I don't foresee any bumps, unless we wish to get greedy and think that Raleigh is Miami, or Las Vegas.

Concerning the N&O's and TBJ's "negative" perception, I am not worried. Sometimes, bad news helps newspaper sales, or even helps developers get a clear picture of what is happening around them. Once the message - no more high-end condos, please - gets out, developers may focus on the market they seem to ignore the most: rental units within downtown. They don't have to be cheap, but they shouldn't cost an arm and a leg, either. My prediction: even Hudson will become successful at the end. And Reynolds Tower will be delivered with some high-end condo units on the top, regardless of what the press wants to promote. The concerns are legitimate, and the question should be asked, but making negative predictions, let alone raising extreme doubts, should have no place in our heart. After all, a few years ago, we were wondering if anything above 5 stories was viable. Now we have Two Progress Plaza, Quorum Center, The Paramount and many other projects ready to break ground. Let's give it some time.

Help me understand....why has the Dawson taken forever to sell all its units...and to this day still has not sold all of its units....and yet when Park Devereax was built a few years ago half a block from the Dawson it sold out rather quickly.

Someone please explain to me why that is?

^Didn't the article say the prices for Park Derveraux were a lot less than the Dawson when it was built? Some of the Dawson units were in the $700k-800k range, and many of those have now been split into 3 different units in order to capitalize on what Orulz said, sub 225k condos sell out more quickly than the larger, more expensive ones. Also, Park D was the only one around when it was built, but the Hudson has had a little more competition (ie: Paramount).

Since I didn't post during the weekend, let me offer some recent updates with a bit of a delay. The former Raleigh Office Supply site has a rendering to go with Crosland's proposal, called Tucker Street Condos. Those familiar with Crosland's Oberlin Village can see some resemblance ;) Anyway, 179 condos, in two 5-story buildings isn't bad for that site... Not bad at all!

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/TuckerStreetCondos/TuckerStreetCondos-RaleighNC-2.jpg

Those not familiar with this site, The Paramount is at the top right of the image, and the Boylan Flats are proposed for the lot at the top of the rendering, above Tucker Street Condos.

Help me understand....why has the Dawson taken forever to sell all its units...and to this day still has not sold all of its units....and yet when Park Devereax was built a few years ago half a block from the Dawson it sold out rather quickly.

Someone please explain to me why that is?If we were able to explain everything, then we would have been marketing geniouses, making big bucks these days :lol: In my opinion, it was bad timing when The Dawson was originally proposed. It wasn't the right time for bold ideas and the original 15-story Dawson was just that... Then it lost momentum and buyers were afraid to commit. Keep in mind that the Dawson broke ground at pretty much the same time with The Paramount's announcement. Also, keep in mind that the Paramount was marketed by York-Simpson-Underwood, a large firm that has a reputation for delivering. Which is why I expect the 7-story condo building, adjacent to The Dawson, to become a success story. By the way, that project will break ground in the next 10-12 months. I would say that marketing forces behind those projects were the reason for success, or failure, and will continue to be the driving force behind DT Raleigh's condo market. But Justin also said it right, plus I must add Quorum Center and Palladium Plaza to the list of competitors. Not to mention those buyers waiting for Bloomsbury Estates and The Metropolitan ;)

So the Dawson hasn't sold well because it is overpriced crap?

Since I didn't post during the weekend, let me offer some recent updates with a bit of a delay. The former Raleigh Office Supply site has a rendering to go with Crosland's proposal, called Tucker Street Condos. Those familiar with Crosland's Oberlin Village can see some resemblance ;) Anyway, 179 condos, in two 5-story buildings isn't bad for that site... Not bad at all!

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/TuckerStreetCondos/TuckerStreetCondos-RaleighNC-2.jpg

Those not familiar with this site, The Paramount is at the top right of the image, and the Boylan Flats are proposed for the lot at the top of the rendering, above Tucker Street Condos.

Looks nice, what streets is this bounded by?

Tucker Str, Boylan Ave and W. Johnson Str. Glenwood Ave is one block to the East, and Peace Str is two blocks North. Here is a helpful link; that square-looking structure is former Raleigh Office Supply:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=501+N+Boylan+Ave,+Raleigh,+NC+27603&spn=0.006218,0.012873&t=h&iwloc=A&hl=en

As for the Dawson, you may consider it crap - you are entitled to your own opinion - but the problem is definitely in the price range of the condo units, not the "crap" part you may be referring to. I have seen relatively worse looking buildings attracting tenants easier. My guess is that the marketing effort didn't bear fruits - hardly any good selling points, if you ask me. It did pave the road for more projects, however, so let's give the developer some credit ;)

I guess I am just surprised...that with the Triangle ranking #6 in Richard Florida's Creative Economy Index, I would have expected much more urban development, since that is where the creative people like to live.

Where do the creative people live in the Triangle?

Personally, I don't care where they live. To me, urban development doesn't depend exclusively on casts and socio-economic groups. Maybe Durham and Chapel Hill have the so-called "creative" class. As a side note, I am pleased with the pace of development. As much as I would love to see a lot of urban development, as well as skyscrapers, I am also a realist when it comes to Raleigh's new direction. The pace needs to be moderate, so we can all get used to it, without getting overwhelmed. I will take a few success stories over many controversial projects that promise more than they deliver.

Now, let's wait for the announcement of the 11-story condo building by Sandreuter ;)

I just went home to Raleigh from Tampa and I was suprised at all the changes already. It looks like Raleigh may finally get something. My parents said they wanted to build the tallest building in the Crabtree area...WHY?

Some of us went through rounds of arguments about this proposal, but I will state my opinion once more, and remain firm since I have had much great exposure to this project - and spoken with the developers more than most people can imagine. The biggest issue was not the developers, but Westin Hotels. The latter was not interested in DT Raleigh, which made it hard for Soleil Group, the developer of the 46-story Soleil Center, to look into downtown. Things to consider:

* The number of rooms (~315) will remain the same as the existing eyesore in the Crabtree Valley site where Soleil Center will be built; this will not affect downtown the least; many people tend to scream about the possibility of this project taking "business" from downtown, but I see no valid arguments to support this view. In this case, why not shooting for the sky and build something classy?

* As a city focus area, Crabtree Valley can get dense and tall developments, much like any [developing] midtown area could.

* The developers do not own land in DT Raleigh.

* Soleil Group is silently working with a downtown land owner for something major. Their future plans include even bigger proposals for downtown... just not until after Soleil Center is complete.

* There are several new developments and proposals for the Crabtree Valley area that will make Soleil Center appear very small in comparison. The proposed Galleria could add as many as 660 units.

I won't get any more into why it is fine to have a new tallest outside downtown, especially in Raleigh. I don't believe for a moment that DT Raleigh's momentum will slow down any time soon, nor that one skyscraper outside the core could take away from the core's boom. What I expect is developers to become bolder after the approval of Soleil Center and deliver some major towers in the nearest future, next time for downtown.

As a side note, I had the opportunity to speak with a VERY reliable source - cannot get more reliable than that person - about the proposed 32-story Reynolds Tower, and things seem to be going as planned. So, we should expect to hear some good news in the next 2 months ;)

So, what impressed you the most about the new developments in DT Raleigh? I know that DT Tampa is about to explode with high-rise developments, which Raleigh cannot even match at this point in time :( Until we see RBC Centura's new HQ, the new convention center and hotel and the proposals for Sites 1 and 4, it will be hard to really impress upon others the ever-changing status of Raleigh's core district. When Reynolds Towers I and II get delivered, it will be hard to ignore the progress.

I am sure that many of you have already read about the plans to develop [most of] block directly to the North of Two Progress Plaza. This is the next phase in Progress Energy's plans for renovating the area around their new HQ and doesn't come as a surprise because there was some initial announcement a few years ago, prior to the ground breaking of Two Progress Plaza. There is an article in the News & Observer titled New plans for old block (http://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/382616.html), where more information can be found, but here are a few excerpts from the article:

Progress Energy is readying its next phase of a campaign to redevelop downtown.

This time, company officials want to level an entire city block to make way for a massive parking garage wrapped with apartments, shops and offices.
...
The Raleigh utility is lining up developers to begin demolishing and redeveloping the downtown block -- bound by Wilmington, Martin, Blount and Davie streets -- within 18 months.
...
In the first stage of the plan, Highwoods Properties would build a five- to seven-level parking garage with about 1,200 spaces. The garage will sit within the larger redevelopment to follow, said Bob Cutlip, a senior vice president with the Raleigh real-estate developer.
...
About a third of the parking spaces will go to occupants of RBC Centura Bank's 29-story headquarters planned nearby. Highwoods also is developing that project, just west across Wilmington Street.
...
That's a challenge. Developers have no reference for pricing or marketing apartments in the area.

There are few apartments downtown; other residential projects under way include condominiums. Nor are there places to buy bread and milk, browse books and CDs or rent movies.

Progress Energy executives want to change that. Preliminary plans call for up to 135,000 square feet of offices, as many as 250 apartment units and an undetermined amount of store space. Officials have started meeting with developers and architects to hash out building proposals but are still in the early stages of negotiations.
...
For Greg Hatem, chief executive of Empire Properties, that means building taller. "This is an area where we need to go vertical."

Hatem, one of the largest property owners downtown, said he is looking into the possibility of developing such a residential complex on the site Progress Energy is marketing.
Overall, I am excited about this (re)development. First, it will rid DT Raleigh of some surface parking and some low-rise eyesores. I don't like the idea of losing Cooper's BBQ, but provided this mixed-use project will be done in phases, the restaurant could easily be relocated at the same block, therefore not much loss, I hope. Second, 250 rental units is nothing small. Sure, they won't be located in a high-rise, but I expect to see at least a 10-story mid-rise, although it is too small for such a location. Considering the 5-story eyesore (Palladium Plaza) that is about to be built nearby, anything more than that would be great. Naturally, the retail portion will be a great addition, much needed in my opinion. The puzzling component is the "up to 135,000 sf" of office space. Why in the earth would Highwoods waste this great parcel for anything so small? Why not add that space to the proposed RBC tower instead? Or better, why not developing something on the lot next to One Progress Plaza? Also, how this would affect development in the nearby Site 1?

What I would love to see is one 20-25 story residential tower and maybe a 15-20 story office tower, both identical in height with Two Progress Plaza, facing Wilmington Street - I would not mind taller structures, but it doesn't sound realistic at this point in time. Then, leave part of the block for future developments, mainly residential with retail. If a 5-7 story parking deck is built in the middle of the block, it is feasible to build "thinner" towers on the West side, and surround the deck with 7-8 story mid-rises, without even exceeding the 250 units that Progress Energy wants to see built. Given the [bad] decision they made for Two Progress Plaza's residential component (Palladium Plaza), I find it hard to believe that we'll see something great this time. However, if Hatem sees vertical development as appropriate - assuming they choose him - and given Highwoods Properties' own ambitions to become a big downtown developer, things may change for the better. I am sure Progress Energy wants to make the best out of their land ;)

Hint: The "mystery" 21-story condo tower's fate may depend on this development. The developer of the envisioned 21-story tower owns business in this block, and owns the land, too, I believe. A possible sale may assist the financing of the aforementioned ambitious vision. We have been waiting too long for this to be announced and its time might have finally come ;)

GO PROGRESS ENERGY!

I got some Boylan Flats renderings I would like to share, courtesy of Centrepoint Architecture, which the developer sent to me for my web page. For more, you can go to http://www.raleighmsa.com/BoylanFlatsRenderings.html.

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/BoylanFlats/BoylanFlats-RaleighNC-6.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/BoylanFlats/BoylanFlatsBoard-RaleighNC.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/BoylanFlats/BoylanFlatsPerspective-RaleighNC.jpg

It is very important to notice that Boylan Flats will actually be built on the middle ot the block, which should explain the North and South elevations; they may look bland and uninspiring to some. Keep in mind that new developments will eventually appear on both sides of Boylan Flats, and hopefully they will be at least of the same height, if not taller.

that building look hideous

What are the red "X"'s going up the center of the building supposed to be?

I like it...its urban funky different...

The X comes from the X-Files :lol:

Keep in mind that when the adjacent lots get developed, this mid-rise will be right in the middle, so it won't look as bad. I agree with uptownliving... this adds a "different" design to the existing landscape. When I first saw the initial rendering, I thought it was a little strange, but when I realized what the exact location is going to be, it made more sense. Much better than those brick boxes we have seen so many times before. Not to mention these are real balconies, not the pseudo balkonies of Park Deveraux.

On a random note I remember hearing about Fayetteville Street Mall around '95/'96 right around when Belk announced it was closing, and please note that I was 14/15 years old living in Hillsborough, but I thought that there was an actual enclosed mall in downtown Raleigh on Fayetteville Street that was losing it's last anchor store...Then immediately after the store closed I'd hear talk about them opening the street up to traffic and I thought they were going to build a road through a dying mall in the middle of downtown Raleigh.

I blame being young and never venturing to downtown Raleigh....when you are a kid growing up in north central Durham and Hillsborough your parents don't tend to drive to downtown Raleigh very often lol

You guys might have seen the article already, but this is probably the most important announcement after RBC Tower. This is about the famous Reynolds Tower I, which is rumored to be the new tallest for DT Raleigh. First of all, here is the link: Tallest building needs time (http://www.newsobserver.com/104/v-print/story/394205.html). The title is a bit confusing, and even discouraging to some forumers who want the building tomorrow, but the truth is that the news is good. Here are the highlights from the article:

* Reynolds presented a preliminary plan for the property this month, which is what the February 2006 deadline was all about.

* If no major office tenant is found, the developer will build more condominiums; the height will be the same.

* Tower's initial specs: 32 stories, 688,500sf (200,000sf of offices, a 70-room boutique hotel, 25 residential condominiums and a parking garage).

* Initial renderings displayed the SunTrust logo, but competition may come from TMC Associates, which plans to build about 315,000 square feet of offices at Site 1; the bank doesn't plan to move offices from Durham or North Raleigh, but it may put a branch downtown.

This tower is a solid proposal. I spoke to the developer a few weeks ago and I know, first hand, that things are going as planned. Of course, there are always last minute deals that could boost this project, or take away from it, but the overall picture is as good as it can be. It is not unusual for office tenants to strike a deal the last moment, trying to take advantage of the developer's desperation for a major deal. Replacing much of the office space with condos is not a bad move, considering the success of Quorum Center. Personally, I am very excited and optimistic. Plan A, or Plan B, DT Raleigh should get its new tallest building delivered by 2009, the latest.

It is good that there is some news on this tower and I would say that it is what I expected..that all the potential office tenets had fallen through. It is interesting that an office tenet has expressed interest at the last minute....but as Reynolds stated he will just go with more condos if the office doesn't come through. Now if his claims of a new tallest are to remain true when he switches to the more condos...then he will have to either build a 38 story condo/hotel tower or put on a 80 ft spire. That would also increase the amount of condos to the 300 unit range.

For me I personally put this project in the doubtful category since it has dragged on since 2001 with no dirt moved. I do hold out hope that Reynolds can make something happen.

Nothing doubtful, uptownliving. It is an either Plan A, or plan B (more condos, less office space), and this is what the additional time is needed for. No reduction in height, as some feared in the past, no real extension request, no dragging beyond 2006. Also, I expect the developer to keep the height of the residential/hotel floors higher than usual, much like Quorum Center - the last two floors are 11 and 12 feet tall. I do not anticipate an 80ft spire, but something like a pseudo-crown, or a wall to cover the mechanical floor, much like Two Hannover Square. One thing I am not certain of, although it doesn't bother me at all, is the total height in feet. Will this tower be the tallest in feet, or the tallest in floors? Both numbers count, as far as I am concerned. What I am anxious to see, however, is the street-level experience. There is so much space to work miracles and I hope that the final proposal includes some retail and entertainment venues. It will be a shame if all this space is lost. As is, there is nothing I would miss on that site - The Flying Saucer is on the section where Reynolds Tower II is envisioned to go - therefore anything will be an improvement, but I hope to see something more.

Should be interesting to see who wins the title for downtown's tallest: RBC or Reynolds
Just think in 3-4 years 2 Hannover might be the city's 4th tallest building.

I think both developments have the chance, except, it won't matter much. Even after the two additions we may still end up with Two Hannover being the tallest - I am prepared for this. The whole "tallest" thing doesn't really matter for one reason: Soleil Center. Unless Soleil Group can pull something of similar, or higher, dimensions - very likely - neither Reynolds Tower I, nor RBC Tower will [easily] steal away the title of the new tallest for DT Raleigh from Two Hannover. Sometimes I have a feeling that RBC/Highwoods and Reynolds are trying to see who will go higher, in order to eclipse the competitor's project. It all boils down to economics, though, and this is where Reynolds & Reynolds won't take this competition to the extreme; they are way too down to Earth to simply try to outshine others. However, do not discount the possibility of seeing something bigger from them in the next 10 years :)

So what is the final deadline on this project? When will Reynolds have to make a definate decision on the office/condo space and go with it?

If I read the article correctly, sometime between March and April the city will be looking closely at this proposal - I assume the city might have a way to help Reynolds & Reynolds (R&R) recruit a big tenant - and based on what is happening a decision may be made as to whether the sale of 301 Hillsborough Str property will be made. My understanding is that the parking lot in the center is 309 Hillsborough Str, and the section to the West of the lot is already owned by R&R. The sale of 309 Hillsborough was based on the fact that R&R would be interested in buying the 301 property, as well. If by the end of April the city doesn't see the final version of the project (either Plan A, or Plan B), then R&R might have to sell back the 309 property to the city, or even purchase it for the market value, not what was agreed several years ago (I think it is fair). Once the decision is made by end of April, then the deal will be finalized and R&R will have to buy the 301 property for the agreed amount. R&R will need until November 2006 to finalize the pre-lease/sales, but they may break ground as early as August 2006.

The confusing part is the reasoning behind the February 2006 deadline. Many people may confuse this with a public announcement, and this is not what the deadline was all about. Naturally, the city would have loved to receive a final design for this tower, but since this didn't happen they reserve the right to exercise a buy-back option. Don't count on this... R&R are VERY serious about this project and they simply use as much time as the city can offer them to make this tower another success story. They did not stop practicing law to let this proposal fail. Having met them I can say with confidence that they are extremely serious people and very much interested developing in Downtown Raleigh. It is unfortunate that they lost a big tenant, but something else will come up. Otherwise, more condos for DT Raleigh. Can this project fail? You bet, but not very likely.

I would like to raise a caution flag: While several people may say that it would be unfair to extend the deadline any further, I must emphasize that there are no serious proposals to replace Reynolds Tower I. Greg Hatem wanted to put his hands on this property, but he wanted to propose something MUCH smaller. I am sorry, but anything smaller than Clarion Hotel is a waste of space. Clarion should be eclipsed by new developments, not dominate the skyline. Hatem owns the lot East of Clarion Hotel (that ugly lot adjacent to the hotel, as far as I know), therefore he has a great opportunity to do something with it, if he cares so much to build something in that section of downtown. Now, the city could give R&R more time, but at this point in time a different price could be negotiated. That would be fair to both sides. By the way, November of 2006 was the original deadline requested by R&R, but was rejected by the city.

I wanted to add a couple of images, so those unfamiliar with the location of 'Reynolds Tower I' understand clearly where the envisioned tower will go. The 4-story low-rise in the photo below is the 301 Hillsborough Str property that R&R will need to buy in order to develop the 32-story tower:

http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/34970431.jpg

The 32-story tower will appear directly behind Clarion Hotel. 301 Hillsborough Str is visible behind and to the left of the hotel, while the 309 Hillsborough Str lot is barely visible behind and to the right of the hotel. Also, in the photo below, you can see the lot that belongs to Greg Hatem, adjacent to Clarion, to the left. That lot could easily be replaced with something between 10 and 15 stories. Hopefully, Hatem will see this as an opportunity to deliver something really nice and stop dreaming about developing the lot R&R is working on:

http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/55088821.jpg

That spot will make a wonderful addition to the skyline if everything goes as planned. I have all the confidence in the world with R&R as they quickly delivered Quorum to us.People must understand that as one project finishes and the additional tenents may have fallen through that this should not be a discouraging factor. Raleigh has started the snowball effect and many people are starting to open their eyes to this new and prospering area. There should be another Major tenent coming and I really feel that this is a definate go. This is also a chance to start another major cluster of towers in that area and really add to the 3-d effect of DT.

Another point to look at...Maybe the Feds are also waiting for better development DT and more People DT to work with TTA. Ever think that they may be waiting for additional people to be on the outbound side of DT in order to make this work. You really can't have one way lines at certain times of the day as far as ridership goes....but that is another thought for another thread

Ernest, Do you have a shot like the one above that includes Quorum too?

Well I am glad ya'll are keeping positive. Honestly I don't see how ya'll put up with all the crap in Raleigh. If some developer had given me nothing but excuses for 5 years as to why a project wasn't built I would give up on them. I do hold out hope this project will be built...but looking at the past 5 years I don't see anything positive with respect to this project.

How about the fact that the developer just built a project in the same area that went off practically without a hitch?

The market has changed drastically in the past 5 years and I can't really blame a smaller developer in a small to midsize market for not ignoring the market and building on spec. Maybe you can get away with that in Atlanta, but spec building in Raleigh (at this point) leaves the potential of crippling the developer and creating a huge glut in the office market.

I'm a realist, but is there an unwarranted pessimism filter on this forum?

romec I certainly don't expect Reynolds to build on spec and I agree with you that would be a really risky move on his part...but at the same time I am nothing but frustrated with what seem to be empty promises and a sting of failed possible tenets for this building...and this has been going on for the past 5 years. RBC said no thanks, Kennedy Covington Hicks said no thanks, the list goes on and on. For 5 years he has not been succusful in getting an anchor tenet. I know that Reynolds must be more frustrated than the rest of us. And now he has to compete with the new RBC building, and the building on the south part of Fayetteville St which is a better location for offices. So with all the competetion he has out there, thats why I put this project in the doubtful category.

Raleigh NC have you seen the renderings for this building? From the article it sounds like some exist out there, but I sure havn't seen anything.

eastwestrob, I totally agree with you. As for the photo you asked me, I will disappoint you. It would be hard to take such photo, unless I go to Clarion Hotel, and even there I will need to rent a room because the restaurant's back has no glass from which I could take a photo. I believe, Flash took some photos earlier during that project's construction phase.

uptownliving, while I have not seen the actual renderings, I pretty much have some idea as to how the tower will look based on the original renderings, unless they modify it. You mentioned something about competition, Kennedy Covington Hicks and RBC. According to David Reynolds, the competition does not come from other downtown projects. In fact, they help R&R to find tenants easier. Again, this is according to the developer, and I assume he knows the competition. Kennedy Covington Hicks "rejected" downtown, not R&R. Were the space available downtown, maybe they would reconsider, but as is, space in North Hills is available now and that makes a huge difference. David was firm on where the competition comes from: suburban market and the low rates. He was very enthusiastic about everything going on downtown. As for RBC, R&R never really placed any bids. They made an unofficial offer, but they knew that RBC was heading to Fayetteville Street. Using the same logic, RBC slammed the door to TMC, too, the Site 1 developer. You are right, though, it would be very discouraging for anyone to spend so much time looking for a major tenant. However, R&R didn't really start until 2-3 years ago. I do not understand why they use 9/11 as an excuse why the project didn't move forward. I remember when the project was officially shelved, before 2000, and didn't come back until 2-3 years ago.

One thing we need to keep in mind is that the city officials, while preaching downtown revitalization, they limit their vision to Fayetteville Street. This is a huge mistake and some day they will regret it, but in the meantime they may hurt developers like R&R. Think about it: which other developer has delivered something similar to Quorum Center? Progress Energy spent a ton of money that could buy them 2 towers instead of one, and still hasn't been able to deliver the residential portion as initially envisioned. Plus it is a corporation, not a father-son alliance. The city gave R&R extension; so what? Who has given more to downtown than R&R? Which is why I think that considering the significance of revitalizing that part of downtown, the city should be happy to lend a hand to R&R. The market conditions in DT Raleigh may be promising, but the market itself would punish anyone delivering a project on speculation. I think R&R will overcome any obstacles and give us something good. The design, based on some reliable and legitimate source will be very forward and elegant ;)

Raleigh what do the original renderings looks like?

Sorry man, can't tell :( Mainly because the person who told me may be reading this - although he hasn't been to the forum for a very long time. Honestly, I am not trying to create any mystery, or raise the agony levels higher, but I cannot say more. Now, if I happen to see the actual renderings with my own two eyes, and the developer gives me the o.k., then I will gladly share something with y'all. Don't hold your breath, though, because I have a feeling we'll all see the renderings at the same time :(

Lawd have mercy. I am glad that I don't live in Raleigh anymore, I could not put up with all the secrecy when it comes to downtown developement. Plus things just seem to take forever to happen there. I really don't see how yall put up with it. God bless each and every one of you.

^^ Thanks :lol:

Seriously, though, there aren't many projects that take forever. Currently, we have The Metropolitan stalled, and 2 visions that aren't [most likely] going to materialize exactly as planned (the former "mystery" tower and Lichtin Bldg). You have to understand that most projects happened to be be proposed during the same timeframe, not far apart from each other, which naturally makes them harder to "sell". Two Progress Plaza, Quorum Center, The Paramount, the new convention center, and most likely RBC Tower... everything on schedule. The Dawson and the Hudson were strange cases because both deviated significantly from their original visions, while Palladium had a rough start when the original developer bailed out - how can one make ends meet with only 50% profit :lol: Not to mention that Bloomsbury Estates actually increased in size by about 30%, in units, with one extra floor on each building.

What makes the whole process slow isn't exactly the developers, but the city committees that send the former to the drawing board more times than necessary. If you attend any meetings you will realize how tough it is for a developer to please Raleigh's city officials. Unbelievable!!! If we had 5-6 projects all and all, then the whole picture would have looked much different. Given the size of Raleigh, we are getting a lot and we are willing to wait a bit longer to see these projects materialize. Besides, most of these proposals will start at the same time, once presales prove sufficient (normally around 50-60%). Another factor for many delays is the proposed TTA regional rail. A lot of the initial momentum isn't there any more, regardless the fact that the whole thing is NOT over yet. Developers can no longer use the whole transit-oriented angle to sell their visions, unless they drag their feet for longer.

Not related to Reynolds Tower, but I do expect to hear soon about the new proposal by Greg Sandreuter for the East side of Glenwood South. If I take his own words, the mid-rise should stand 10 stories tall, with a 4-story parking deck, including ground floor retail, and 6 stories of residential space. He sounded pretty excited about it, so I would like to assume it is a go. I will try to get in touch with him at one point in time and give y'all an update. Hopefully, he learned from developing The Dawson.

Hopefully, he learned from developing The Dawson.

Amen! Smaller and less expensive units, hopefully.

Where exactly is this building going?

@uptownliving: R&R are still working on the final schematics of the tower. I will have some "exclusive" pics when they get finalized ;)

@Justin: The 10-story project will be at the southern half of the block bounded by North, West and Harrington streets. If you visit the link below, it will be at the center of the image, where the green roof is. I am pretty confident that it will look similar to the 11-story version JDavis did for Sandreuter during the preliminary phases for The Dawson.

http://maps.google.com/?ll=35.785408,-78.645126&spn=0.006536,0.010214&t=h

In the following photo, it appears as a large surface lot:
http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/25578399.jpg

From the top of the Archdale Bldg: the lot appears where the green roof is, to the left of the photo:
http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/29084148.jpg

Hello. I think that the 4 levels of parking should be buried at this location. I like the idea of Glenwood South becoming an area with all the buildings as 5-8 floors. I think if it grows taller, especially artifically by putting parking above ground, the pedestrian experience is lost.

Above ground parking can still be very pedestrian friendly as long as the deck is "wrapped" in retail/residential like at the corner of Tucker and Glenwood.

I do agree that the Glenwood South area needs to remain low/midrise if it is to keep its pedestrian friendly/entertainment district appeal. Keep all the skyscrapers over by Fayetteville St.

I believe its going where the overflow parking lot for Capital Fitness is. That lot stays pretty full at night, I wonder if they plan on striking a deal with the new owner to use the parking deck as overflow as well.

Glenwood South will not become a high-rise district, that is for sure. I won't say no to a taller structure, but human scale projects can bring the best out of this area, plus create a nice transition to the low-rise neighborhoods in the vicinity. There is already a project that was cancelled for a 5-story office building, but its location right next to the tracks made it a less attractive proposal. Before it was shelved, it was reduce to 3 stories. That lot is visible in the last photo, between the 10-story proposal and the railroad tracks, directly "behind" the green roof, as you look at the picture. Instead, the current owner of that single-story warehouse is renovating the building :(

Sandrauter could also choose to place the parking deck in the back, right in the middle of the block, but that would not look good if the building ends up as a 6-story structure. Also, I totally agree with uptownliving; a developer can offset the incorporated parking deck with some ground floor retail. Check out the Two Progress Plaza Davie Str facade and I am sure you will see something positive (see photo below). Of course, this spot isn't going to be a destination, like Powerhouse Square and Glenwood Ave, but I am sure the developer will think more in terms of the fututre potential for West Street. Add Hatem's plans for across the street, to the South, and you will see easily how hot this area will become for redevelopment. Now, placing the garage underground is a good idea, but I am afraid that such move would increase the prices beyond affordable, unless Sandreuter goes above 20 stories, which is VERY unlikely.

http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/55088786.jpg

A large building or two in the correct spot would probably be ok, as long as its consistant with the surrounding development. As far as above gnd parking, my very good friend works for a giant General Contractor there. He is always surprised that developers here build parking above gnd. Apparently, in DC, the folks who dig out the sites turn around and sell the dirt, so the building owner doesn't end up footing much of the cost. I'm sure the economics of dirt is different here, so maybe there would be a big difference.

PE II does do a nice job of masking the parking area, as your photo shows.

On a completely different subject, Does anyone know the future of the old 'Caswell Square' (between Lane, Dawson, McDowell, and Jones Sts.)? I ask because I know this was one of original squares in the city, and because, while looking at the city's website, I found a pdf which seems to show that some of the buildings eventually would be removed. (Of course, i can't find a link to the document).

Transplant, please forgive me... I forgot to welcome you to this forum :) Hope you find a friendly home here and keep posting.

Eventually, the economics of building underground parking in Raleigh will mature. I am not sure, but do we have builders in this area who know how to do it right and in a profitable way? It is my impression that we always have to "import" builders for such structures - I am not referring to having 1-2 underground parking levels. If this is true, then it's no wonder the developers go with what's the cheapest. Hopefully, as dense and urban projects get delivered, building costs won't be as prohibitive.

By the way, since you (Transplant) mentioned D.C., I must say that city is a great example of urbanity :okay: Glenwood South can immitate D.C. in many ways. What it needs is a good mix of mid-rise condo/apartment buildings, with retail option, eateries and entertainment destinations. The potential seems to have been realized and slowly materialize, but I do agree with you: a few taller structures would make sense, if placed at the right spots. Certainly, I do not advocate random placement of high-rises in Glenwood South. Quorum Center is a good size building, I think, and Glenwood South can have a few such buildings scattered, especially in the area between Glenwood Ave and the State Government Complex. Given the abundance of underutilized lots between West Str and Capital Blvd, it would make a lot of sense.

You probably saw Caswell Square in this PDF document (http://www.downtownraleigh.org/development/pdfs/a.pdf). However, I do not foresee the conversion of that block back to a square, not even partially. Unfortunately, the damage was done a long time ago; it would be difficult to even propose the demolition of the existing buildings including 1-2 nice looking ones (see photos below).

Looking SW, on McDowell Str:
http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/25612380.jpg

The former Caswell Square area dominates the center (middle and to the right of the photo):
http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/29084139.jpg

On a side note, if you look carefully into the PDF document I linked to, you can see several infill projects, but as of now I am not really aware of any of them outside the proposed ones. Examples of speculation are the infill adjacent to Clarion Hotel, to the East, and the infill for the SE area of the block where Quorum Center is being built. I anticipate a lot of these infills to remain on the planning stage for a while, before they are brought [officially] to the city's table for review. However, Caswell Square's transformation is hard to imagine because the state really needs the land.

This morning I saw two articles on the Contemporary Art Museum in Raleigh and their plans to redevelop 0.57 of an acre they own and an existing 20,000sf warehouse into galleries, residences and either offices or retail. Here are the articles:

Museum picks developer for Raleigh site (http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/stories/2006/01/30/daily25.html?t=printable)

Museum chooses Grubb for renovation (http://www.newsobserver.com/104/v-print/story/395387.html)

The summary of the article may be inlcuded in the following excerpt:A solicitation sent to developers last year indicated that two new buildings of up to six stories each could be built where two parking lots are now. An existing two-story, 20,000-square-foot warehouse could be renovated to include parking on the ground level and a museum, offices, classrooms and meeting rooms on the upper level.This project may break ground sometime around the beginning of 2007, and could take up to 18 months to finish. This project will certainly breathe new life into the Warehouse District and strengthen the residential presence near the proposed Triangle Transit Center. Hopefully, the buildings will reach at least 6 stories because that area needs some height ASAP. It makes an ideal transitional district, much like Glenwood South, and it would be a shame if new developments bypass this area. Plus, it will remove two surface lots we don't mind losing ;)

I have always liked the Warehouse District...spent a lot of time there when I lived in Raleigh. This musuem will be a nice add to the area.

Raleigh, Yup, thats the link. Its too bad folks made the decision to build on the Caswell square site. That would have been perfect for the folks whom live (and will live) in Glenwood South and by the TTA station.

Thank God that this Contemporary Art museum is going in DT and not out in the 'burbs.

Well, mistakes have been made in all cities, and Raleigh cannot be an exception. I wish the city could find a way to fix some of the ills of the past, but right now I do not see this happening :( Glad to see that Raleigh increases its potential for downtown redevelopment by keeping its museums where they should be: in the center of the city. If this project goes as envisioned, it will make a huge difference to the existing fabric. More people living in and visiting the Warehouse District may offer the success that the stalled TTA regional rail proposal may not bring if the final decision is against it. And, at 6-stories (hopefully not less than 5) the scale of this development will not overwhelm the rest of the area's low-rise character... not that I would object something around 15 stories :)

More residential options under way. According to a new article in the N&O, a new project near City Market/Moore Square will include 170 rental units. Can't say I am enthusiastic about a "roughly" 4-story structure in such a large lot, but its significance cannot be denied. Here is the link to the article: 170 apartments planned for downtown Raleigh (http://www.newsobserver.com/100/v-print/story/396899.html). I hope that more developers offer rental units, at affordable prices. I admit that currently we have many condos built, proposed, and under way, therefore it makes sense to add more apartments. I think this is great news for DT Raleigh.

I wanted to add a link to an image that shows the block where the apartment complex will be built - the block right in the center of the image:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=raleigh,nc&ll=35.777331,-78.632734&spn=0.003268,0.006748&t=h

As we all know by now, these satellite images are old - notice that the magnet schoold (to the bottom, near the left of the image) was still under construction. While that area doesn't look as empty as the image shows, it is true that there is plenty of land to (re)develop near Moore Square. There are city-owned lots that will be replaced by urban projects, but so far we haven't seen the interest that we were hoping to see for that area. However, just like this announcement, we will wake up one day and some new project for Moore Square will be revealed. What concerns me is how urban this project will truly be. A 4-story complex - I am sure it will include surface parking instead of a deck - can be just as unattractive as a badly designed high-rise, without retail on the ground floor... not that it is mandatory. I would like to see something like a neighborhood grocery store, or a deli, and a few other retail/service destinations that could serve the growing area of Moore Square. Unless I missed it, I read nothing about retail, but as I mentioned earlier, this is not necessary. Hopefully, we'll see a truly urban apartment complex and not a motel type, like that crap across from the proposed site.

Like you I am not enthusiastic about 4 story buildings...but more apartments are needed in DT Raleigh.

I was always curious why we haven't seen as many rental units in DT Raleigh as I am sure we could. The toughest part is to assemble land, enough to justify the expense of building a large apartment complex, but the demand is there. Someone was eventually going to put together such plan.

Not related to DT Raleigh, but not completely off topic. I am curious how Uptown Charlotte is doing in terms of rental units. I am aware of the condo boom that doesn't show signs of slowing down over there, but how is the rental market? In DT Raleigh we have lots of houses converted to duplexes for rental purposes, especially in Oakwood, but is the same thing happening in the historic neighborhoods of Uptown?

With regards to downtown Raleigh's rental market I would say look at downtowns 2 largest employers: NC State Govt and Progress Energy...not exactly places to get high paying jobs for entry level employees (the young type that wants to live downtown) when compared to Bank HQ such as RBC. Now with RBC coming online expect more changes.

Downtown Charlotte has about 2,500 apartments and the current vacancy rate is very low at around 6%. There are no current plans for additional apartments. In fact, one apartment building is under going a succusful conversion to condos...so in the near future the number of apartments in downtown is on the decrease. I expect to hear about a new apartment complex going up sometime this year as the demend is there.

With regards to rental duplexs...you will find very few in downtown..however they are easier to find in the surrounding historical neighborhoods of Belmont, Elizabeth, Cherry, Dilworth, Wesley Heights, etc.

Thanks for the info, uptownliving...

I am wondering if we see any rental units in the North Blount Street area. I know of condos, townhomes and single homes being proposed for that place, but I haven't heard anything about rental units yet. With all the state employees around there, it would make a lot of sense to build 1-2 midrises that could feature rental units, or be "hybrids", like Crosland's proposal for Tucker Street. If the North Blount Street area gets another 200-300 apartments - wishful thinking - it will help the connectivity with Moore Square, and thus help create some retail and entertainment options. Naturally, these are speculations on my behalf, but with so many opportunities around the East side of downtown I will be unpleasantly surprised if it takes long to hear of more similar projects. Of course, this apartment "complex" needs to become successful before we hear of more, unless DT Raleigh's condo booming shifts to an apartment booming before even success stories come out :lol:

I would guess that the developer is planning the height to be about 4 stories so that it could be build of wood. Probably to keep costs down. Hopefully it has an urban feel.

I know that some people really hate the 4-story apartment building that Crosland built on Wade Ave (Oberlin Court), but something like that could work just fine in the Moore Square area. The same holds true for the 4/5-story Alexan, in The Lassiter/New North Hills. If the developer wants to keep costs very low, then I am afraid we'll see the same crap we get to see all over. Downtown needs projects that separate the center in terms of quality and architecture from the rest of the city. I am sure that if affordability is one of the goals of this proposal, then more apartments would probably help the developer decrease the ROI period. For buildings up to 5 stories, wood may be used without a problem. The Alexan is a great example.

Capitol Park:
http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/25705048.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/26803681.jpg

Governor's Square:
http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/26616327.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/26616326.jpg

The Alexan:
http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/51325014.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/51325006.jpg

Oberlin Court:
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/Raleigh/OberlinCourt/DSCF3932m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/Raleigh/OberlinCourt/DSCF3934m.jpg

Personally, I would love to see something like a couple of buildings on that site; one of them similar to The Alexan and the other similar to Oberlin Court. If not both, at least one should have some retail on the ground floor. Maybe the developer can revisit his original proposal and go with one apartment building and several townhomes for the rest of the site. To make them affordable, he can keep the design simple, similar to the ones below. He can even do this in two phases...

Near the intersection of Duraleigh Rd and Edwards Mill Rd:
http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/50985289.jpg

Near the intersection of Glenwood Ave and Lynn Rd:
http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/38269944.jpg

Anyway, I took this thread to a slightly different direction, but I honestly feel that the developer can increase his chances by providing more mixed-income opportunities, and make his project affordable and profitable, at the same time.

^^^ I mostly agree, I would hope that the structure looks like Oberlin Court or the Alexan. I don't agree that retail/mixed-use is always neccesary. While mixed-use is always prefered, there needs to be enough people around to keep those places in business. I don't know if that mass exists, and would hate to see a developer put in extra expense for mixed use only to see that the store fronts are empty.

You are correct. I should specify what kind of businesses have good chances, IMHO, to survive in an environment of 170 apartments. Possibly a laundromat, a small convenience store, a hair salon, and/or a small coffee shop. Nothing really major because that would be risky. I agree with what you said... the developer would take some risks adding a lot of retail. I am a firm believer that not every project must include retail destinations, as long as it is done nicely. The reason why I suggested retail is that currently that area is a victim of negative perception; would you like to live on the ground floor of an area that is not well protected? Starting from the second floor is probably a better way to attract tenants and rent the units faster. An Oberlin Court-like development, minus the ugly parking deck would make sense, I think.

This is not really news, yet, but I am pretty certain it will happen, one way or another. First, the link to the story:

York wants to put 60 townhouses in Mordecai (http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/stories/2006/02/13/story7.html?t=printable)

Now, here is a link to a map of the area this project is planned for:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=raleigh,nc&ll=35.79888,-78.629773&spn=0.006535,0.013497&t=h

The site, I believe, is the one above that big curve of Courtland Dr, near the spot where 401 [kind of] forks out. Judging from the previous developments mentioned in the article, York Properties can deliver good density, good quality housing and nice designs. BUT, there is one problem, and this is not necessarily the developer's fault: this project cannot easily be created in a pure urban way. Due to the landscape, a cul-de-sac may appear near the exit from Capital Blvd to Wake Forest Rd/Blount Str. It is almost inevitable and the developer would be foolish not to do this... unless there is a better way, such as an apartment building, with its back towards Capital Blvd. The neighbors do not seem to be excited about the density, though. Anyway, this would be another great revitalization story if the developer succeeds to build a dense community, in an [at least] semi-urban way.

In the article, there is a mention of another townhome project, but smaller one, and more pricey. This guy seemed to have more luck with the neighbors, and from the sound of it he should have no real obstacles. The property is adjacent to the area where York Properties is planning its own townhomes project, so expect major density improvement in that spot.

In both cases, the quality should be good and the townhomes will sell. Now, if the neighborhood agrees with the proposed density, we'll see some affordable housing, along with some more pricey options. Technically, this is not a downtown area, but the proximity to Raleigh's core is hard to overlook. To put it in perspective, look to the lower left of the image/map I provided above and search for N. Blount Str... Now, that is downtown's North-most edge.

No major news... Planning Commision aproved Crosland's development on Tucker Str and Bloomsbury Estates. Notice that the latter is mentioned as two 7-story buildings instead of 6-story buildings, but the number of units remains the same. I wonder if there was an error on behalf of the reporter, but an increase in floors will be more than welcome ;) Here is a link from today's News & Observer:

2 housing projects get planners' nod (http://www.newsobserver.com/102/v-print/story/400318.html)

Approval from the City Council should come very easy. Both projects will add to the existing momentum for revitalizing downtown and bring another 273 units. Some members of the commission were wondering about retail options, but that should not become an issue with every project out there... Retail and entertainment options should be encouraged for more central locations, like Glenwood Ave and St Mary's Str, although I would not discourage any developer from placing retail along roads less visited. Completion dates for both projects are estimated for mid-2007.

Excellent....

I know this is EXTREMELY hard, but I wish the city could convince Fidelity Investments to host some, if not all, of its operations in DT Raleigh. Don't call me crazy for even implying this, but why not dreaming big? Anyone heard if the city is making efforts to attract Fidelity Investments to downtown? It would make sense, no matter how we look at it.

^ I could NOT agree more. If DT raleigh had Any chance to get them, they should hold nothing back. Having them in DT would be beneficial on so many levels, i could not even count that high.

Getting them into DT would (hopefully) get some others (Credits Suisse, I'm looking at you) to follow suit.

Unfortunately, RTP has land and easier access.

Yeah, not only that they [RTP] have been assembling land for this transaction. I would love to see it come to Downtown just as much, if not more, than anyone, but I just don't see it happening, unfortunately.

Another thing I thought of, if 5,000 new employees move into RTP, wouldn't that exacerbate the need for a mass transit system serving that area? Man, I really hope we haven't missed our opportunity with the TTA.

Justin, TTA has shot itself in the foot MANY times in the past... Take the demonstration, for example. Instead of hosting it somewhere in the Fairgrounds - it took place during the State Fair - where thousands of people would have gotten the chance to see the model and get excited over the regional rail, TTA chose an obscure area in the Warehouse District. Go figure :(

On Fidelity Investments, though, I am a believer that they can still move 500-1000 jobs to downtown. That way they can have a [cheaper] campus-based RTP presence, as well as a corporate presence in Raleigh's growing skyline. And given that Raleigh does not have a tall skyline, Fidelity Investments could have gained the type of visibility that few companies could in this area. The N&O block will most certainly be a perfect candidate for a 40+ story/500ft+ high-rise, and possibly a new tallest for Raleigh ;) It is VERY hard to compete with RTP, but what the Heck? Someone has to try... At least grab 1000-1500 jobs from the big total of 5000.

1000 new jobs in DT Raleigh would be a win. I work in a RTP Campus, and it blows. I would rather work downtown, but its just not in the cards.... Until the lottery kicks in and I cash in on a $250 M ticket.

^^ :lol: I wish you luck!!!

I work downtown, in the North Blount Street district, but some idiots in our department decided to move us out to a Garner facility they are renovating :bash: Naturally, I am looking for another job because I cannot see myself driving there every day :( A North Raleigh location would have worked fine with me, but not out there in Garner, not that I have anything against the town... In the past, I have also worked in the RTP area, so I know the feeling.

There was a nice article on the North Blount Street district. Not the most enlightening one, but nevertheless, it gives us some idea as to what the developer is planning. The best part is that respecting the older architecture is just as important as building new residences. The price range is not bad, either; $350,000 for a 3000sf unit isn't bad for downtown standards. The funny thing is that I am currently working in one of those blocks and my employer has to move to a renovated Garner facility - what a bunch of idiots, making such a stupid decision. I hope the developer does this right, or I will be very angry :mad2:

Source: News & Observer.
Link: Blount St. area may transform (http://www.newsobserver.com/104/v-print/story/401722.html)

I will try to respect the admin's request for limiting the amount of words quoted, but I apologize if the word count exceeds 100 - I did not count:
A Florida company planning to redevelop about 21 acres just north of the governor's mansion wants to build about 500 condominiums, townhouses and single-family homes on the site.

The Blount Street project also would include up to 110,000 square feet of shops, according to documents LNR Property filed with the city Friday. The company agreed to pay the state $20 million for the land, and plans to restore 25 homes, some of them historic, left standing there.

This is not a bump to my thread, so please read on. Today's N&O had a few nice articles on downtown and we finally took a look at the envisioned [no longer] "mystery" tower (see rendering below). Here is a list of the articles:

Parking deck may rise (http://www.newsobserver.com/104/v-print/story/402286.html)

Boylan may be next big thing (http://www.newsobserver.com/104/v-print/story/402289.html)

Developers aim for the sky (http://www.newsobserver.com/104/v-print/story/402422.html)

Builder's move was a shrewd one (http://www.newsobserver.com/104/v-print/story/402346.html)

In a link (http://www.newsobserver.com/content/business/story_graphics/20060220_air_rights.jpg) to a very informative image/map, N&O displays one of the best residential proposals for DT Raleigh. Currently, the land owner has given up, due to his lack of experience in marketing this tower, but he sells the land and plans as a package - very overpriced, if you ask me. Here is a rendering of that tower:
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/visions/MartinWilmingtonTower-RaleighNC-1.jpg

^This is the first rendering of the "Mystery Tower" I've seen - not too bad, kinda has the feel of Two Progress.

From the article about buying air rights, I really liked this quote:
"When you see investors buying air rights to stack up on their site, you're seeing the next generation of Raleigh buildings," said Cody Jetton, a Cary appraiser. "We're pushing up. ... That's the only way to get the monsters built."

GO RALEIGH!!!

Yes, the mention of air rights is a cool thing because it shows that the upward direction is inevitable. While half of those cases may not be easy to materialize as high-rises (i.e. the property next to One Exchange Plaza - Hatem would eat the city officials alive if they ever allowed that), others carry the promise of a much better redevelopment path (i.e. the Martin/Wilmington Str property). Notice in the linked image that Site 4/Lafayette is mentioned as a 15-story building, up from 12 floors, but I have no source to confirm this. Air rights for the decks adjacent to Site 4 and Two Progress Plaza spell disaster, in my opinion, because the view they preserve is nothing more than top floors of parking decks :( There are other properties where a view needs to be preserved, but not for Site 4 and Two Progress Plaza, IMHO.

Other than that, notice that the Harrington Str property, scheduled to be developed by Greg Sandreuter, may become the site for a 12-14 story midrise - I have previously mentioned hearing the developer talking about a 10-story structure. That would be cool :okay: Also great is the speculation that the Boylan Ave strip between Hillsborough Str and Boylan Heights, and the adjacent neighborhoods, will be a very hot spot for residential and entertainment redevelopment. Everyone knows how important this area is, considering it sits at the Westmost borders of downtown. Creating a smooth transition to the rest of the city in an urban form is much desired and necessary to the success of downtown revitalization.

Today's focus on downtown was a great gift from N&O.

The news keeps getting better, so read on:

* Site 1: The initial 12- & 8-story towers are now sitting at 19 and 15 stories. Pretty soon it will get finalized.

* RBC-Centura's new HQ is standing at the same height it was before - do not expect this to get any taller - but there is an improvement in the design of the tower, but nothing dramatic. Today, Highwoods Properties submitted their final plans.

* 222 Glenwood is about to break ground. There is a small increase to 124 units.

* There are drawings for two redevelopment options for the Contemporary Art Museum (see images below). Option 1 includes 50 residential units, 20000sf of museum space and 7000sf of retail/office space. Option 2 includes 32 residential units and 17000sf of museum space:

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/ContemporaryArtMuseum/cropdsf4613m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/ContemporaryArtMuseum/cropdsf4614m.jpg

* The Intermodal Center is pretty close to be announced officially.

* There is much progress in the Clarence Lightner Public Safety Center project. The City of Raleigh is still looking for the site of the building, but they are getting really close to the final deal.

* N&O's new HQ has been approved by the parent company that owns the newspaper. It is expected to be between 10 and 15 floors. Since N&O owns most of that block, additional redevelopment will take place once the publishing facilities move to a new location.

* The new Courthouse Extension seems to undergo changes... to a much better design, I hope. There is a rendering I can share, but it is nothing revealing, I am afraid :( More like how the skyline may look once the new tower is built. Also in the rendering below, you may see the proposed development for the lot SW of the courthouse extension. I think that Empire Properties won the bid, or that they seem to be the best candidate. This means one thing: Do not expect any high-rises on that place, although something between 15 and 25 stories would have been feasible and ideal.

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/visions/cropdsf4605m.jpg

If what I heard is accurate, there is tremendous amount of interest from national developers to build downtown, and companies to relocate to DT Raeligh. We are going to witness a huge growth in the core of Raleigh, so stay tuned for more ;)

Things are really coming together!
I really hope that the new courthouse design fronts martin street. Maybe even create a plaza with water features on the northern side of that block. Doing that would create a nice E-W connection between Nash square and Fayetteville Street. If Progress "North" does the same thing, we have a nice East-West link between Nash and Moore Squares.

Its also great to see sites 1 and 4 at those heights, From Saunders it will just mainly add density, but from some other angles, our skyline will get a little longer.

Quick question: Do you know which side of the block the N&O headquarters is going to sit on? I wonder if they will relocate their publishing first, or build a new hq, then find space for their publishing operations.

Random thought: I still say the blocks around Nash square are potentially the hottest real estate in downtown Raleigh right now. I've got $5 anyone else wanna go in with me on buying some property??? ;-) I'm still doing a writeup on Nash square that I plan to put out on my website on Friday (should have put it up earlier. . . .)

What's the latest on the Marriott?

^^
The Marriott Hotel is a lost cause :( Do not expect anything nice about it, except for the interior. I have no problem with EIFS because it is not a bad material, assuming it is installed properly. However, the overall design, height and number of rooms leaves much to be desired; totally uninspired architecture :bash: The city focuses WAAAAAAAY too much on the street level, which is good for a hotel, anyway, and loses the war on the tower portion, which will be more visible than anything else.

@romec: The N&O HQ will be located at the SW corner of the block. Since N&O upgraded their publishing equipment a short time ago, they will stay there for a few more years, in order to get some sort of return on their investment. However, the publishing facilities will most definitely move out of downtown, but not too far. Based on an N&O employee I know, the building is sitting at 11 stories, but it may go higher. Surely, the development on Site 1 is becoming more attractive. Increasing the office tower from 12 to 19 and the condo tower from 8 to 15 is nothing small. In fact, I would say that these are far more appropriate and I hope that demand pushes them even higher - doubtful, though. It sounded to me that Site 4 may also be larger than initially proposed (12 stories). If I heard correctly, the number of condos may increase and the height may be pushed to 15 floors, but don't quote me on this. By the way, romec, I see your $5 Nash Sq investment and raise you to $50 :lol: Your site is coming along very nicely :okay:

One thing I realized last night, during the DT Raleigh new/latest developments presentation - I had the day off - is that the revitalization of DT Raleigh will become a MAJOR success story. I know that we all share the same views for the city we represent, but this is a turning point for Raleigh. When you hear that major, national developers are interested in developing in our downtown, and when big corporate names consider relocation to the latter, it should be clear that we are witnessing a huge booming era. In fact, this is going to be THE time to be in Raleigh. Of course, I am amazed at the great things that happen elsewhere, and while Raleigh may not match these cities in terms of skyline image, the amounts invested here are going to prove that Raleigh's true value lies at the street-level. The skyline improvements will definitely follow shortly.

Also, I would like to answer a question that most people have. Is there such a huge demand for condos, enought to justify the increasing number of condo projects? The answer is "yes". There is tremendous interest, including that of people who are thinking about moving here from other cities and desire a more urban lifestyle. There is a good 40%, and this nationwide, not only in Raleigh, who purchase these condos for investment purposes. This trend exists in ALL cities, which means that Raleigh follows the norm. Whether these units are affordable, or not, is a different question. The affordable units move VERY fast, which gives people the impression that the high-end condos are the only choice. We'll see some good change here, but not for another 2-3 years.

Thanks Ernest - I'm really getting excited about CAM. Of course I'd rather see the 50 unit, 20,000 museum one get the nod, but either would be a welcome addition to that area. I think the Warehouse District is really going to take off over the next few years with the addtion of this, and many other projects that are being completed.

And like you said, this is definitely THE time to be in Raleigh - awesome update!

It's 10am, and you've already made my day! :cheers:

Is the source of this info confidential? Or is this available somehow?

I completely agree that Nash Square will be the place to be in just a few years. It will also be great when the Raleigh Skyline isn't an actual line.

Thanks, guys!!!

@transplant: There is no confidential source. Dan Douglas from the Urban Design Center and Mitchell Silver from the Planning Dept gave a nice presentation last night. Along with the things they mentioned officially, I asked Dan some additional questions at the end. Combine his answers with information I received from aquaintances - modest, realistic people, who never express excessive enthusiasm - and you have a complete picture of what is to come by 2008, which seems to be the magic deadline for DT Raleigh to prove itself :lol:

One more piece of information: I wrote to Fidelity Investments' spokesperson about considering DT Raleigh instead of RTP, or at least for part of their operations. Of course, as I expected, there was no reply, but I heard that the city is approaching Fidelity Investments with an "offer" for moving to DT Raleigh instead of the suburban RTP Hell-hole. There is nothing to confirm Fidelity's intentions, but I hope they will reconsider. I hope that they choose a couple of locations: one in DT Raleigh and one in DT Durham. I know that fragmenting their business may not be good, but neither is taking 200 acres in RTP. I am sure it will be more costly to build on 200 acres than coming to downtown. Again, these are initial steps and nothing to imply that Fidelity Investments is even considering DT Raleigh. I'd rather have them in RTP than lose them to another area. Now, if Credit Suisse would also consider DT Raleigh, or DT Durham, it could start a new trend for the Triangle. I am optimistic about the growth, but I surely hope that our downtowns can benefit from that, as well.

I'm really getting excited about CAM. Of course I'd rather see the 50 unit, 20,000 museum one get the nod, but either would be a welcome addition to that area. I think the Warehouse District is really going to take off over the next few years with the addtion of this, and many other projects that are being completed.Justin, here is a link to an article about this project:

GRUBB PROPERTIES SELECTED TO DEVELOP MIXED-USE RALEIGH HEADQUARTERS FOR CONTEMPORARY ART MUSEUM (http://www.camnc.org/about/releases/212006.html)

Not bad, at all :okay: From a height perspective, the "tower" part is pretty much the same, but I, just like you, prefer to see the 50-unit proposal gaining momentum. My guess, it will be something in-between. On the other hand, I do not wish to see the single-story version of the museum... it doesn't feel attractive to me :( Let me also share with you some images, from the developer's site, of other projects that may inspire the CAM project:

1315 East (Charlotte):
http://www.1315east.com/images/home_image.jpg

Elizabeth Avenue Redevelopment (Charlotte):
http://www.grubbproperties.com/images/prop/37/gallery/Elizabeth_Vision-11334015.jpg

1523 Elizabeth Avenue (Charlotte):
http://www.grubbproperties.com/images/prop/38/property/Rodgers_1523-1_RETOUCHED.JPG

Latta Pavillion (Charlotte):
http://www.grubbproperties.com/images/prop/40/property/Latta_ex_5_@100.jpg

Morrison (Charlotte):
http://www.grubbproperties.com/images/prop/41/property/Morrison_Rendering_100dpi.jpg

Not all of these projects appeal to my taste, but they are urban in nature and I think that something along the same architecture would fit nicely in the Warehouse District. One way or another, I wish CAM best of luck. Their project would perform the little miracle this area needs to regain momentum, similar or greater than the progress it was making up until the city started focusing more on Glenwood South, several years ago.

This probably doesn't belong in this forum, but I'm too excited to hold back:

http://www.allaboutbeer.com/wbfraleigh/

:lol:
That's quite all right!!! It is events like this that show the "lighter" side of DT Raleigh. It shouldn't be all about high-rises and urban projects. Besides, people who love these events could make a strong case for more urban living; who wants to have a bunch of drunk people behind the steering wheel :lol: Even though I am more of a [red] wine person, I can appreciate a good beer, especially on a hot day ;)

It would be nice for those who did not make it to the presentation to see a few photos from the event. I am sure that the presentation will eventually be placed on the Internet for all to see, but for now you just have to deal with my [bad] photography. One of these days I will have to stop messing around with manual settings; leave the experimentation for another event :lol:

The first two images should give you a great idea of how tiny the hotel will be :(
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/presentations/UDC-03012006/DSCF4571m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/presentations/UDC-03012006/DSCF4573m.jpg

My apologies for the low quality image :( This could have turned out to be excellent, but my photography skills had migrated WAAAAY down South last night:
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/presentations/UDC-03012006/DSCF4577m.jpg

For those of us who still want to know how DT Raleigh used to look in the past:
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/presentations/UDC-03012006/DSCF4581m.jpg

Mitchell Silver - he did strike me as a positive force. [Sorry for the bad photo, Mitchell, but you kept moving all the time.]
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/presentations/UDC-03012006/DSCF4585m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/presentations/UDC-03012006/DSCF4595m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/presentations/UDC-03012006/DSCF4596m.jpg

Dan Douglas did a phenomenal job presenting the developments. He gave off a lot of energy and enthusiasm, which I hope the audience recognized:
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/presentations/UDC-03012006/DSCF4598m.jpg

No way a presentation these days will not include RBC Centura's new HQ:
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/presentations/UDC-03012006/DSCF4601m.jpg

I am crossing my fingers that what we see in the rendering is a new approach for building the Courthouse Annex. That is, build a taller structure and make the parking deck less dominant along McDowell Str. At least, that is what the image seemed to imply. Looking at the overall plan (photo below) you may recognize the new N&O HQ spot (shown in green), and a plaza right on the front of the Courthouse Annex, at the Salisbury Str side. To me, that is a far better proposition:
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/presentations/UDC-03012006/DSCF4604m.jpg

Dan Douglas surely got the message out: DT Raleigh is on the way up. From the smallest renovations to the largest projects, DT Raleigh is going to stand proud, again:
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/presentations/UDC-03012006/DSCF4607m.jpg

This convention hotel always takes the smile away from my face :( Hey, they are going to put a Starbucks on the ground floor!!! That is probably the best news the developer can offer :bash: Anyway, it is a necessary evil and we'll just have to get used to it:
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/presentations/UDC-03012006/DSCF4609m.jpg

The crowd wasn't large, but it was pleasant... though I didn't mingle much:
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/presentations/UDC-03012006/DSCF4610m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/presentations/UDC-03012006/DSCF4611m.jpg

The Contemporary Art Museum is beginning to attract more attention these days. I remember seeing the original drawings during one of my visits to the UDC, but had no clue what they were about. Nor I wanted to ask Dan back then:
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/presentations/UDC-03012006/DSCF4615m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/presentations/UDC-03012006/DSCF4618m.jpg

I love this list... It really tells you what is currently happening. While there are projects missing it is still a great summary:
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/presentations/UDC-03012006/DSCF4621m.jpg

A very good breakdown of where the "over $1.5 billion" in investments is coming from. Not everything is of massive scale, plus there are projects [naturally] missing (i.e. Reynolds Tower I), but even without those the amount invested is truly large for Raleigh's standards:
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/presentations/UDC-03012006/DSCF4625m.jpg

The presentation moved smoothly and the speakers covered a lot of territory. It is probably the first time I was able to put the pieces together and see how all these projects will make a huge difference in the landscape of downtown. One question I did not ask, and I really wanted to, was whether the city has plans to work on improving Salisbury and Wilmington Str in the next 4-5 years, or wait until after 2010 to begin a study. Personally, I cannot believe that Fayetteville Str, by itself, can carry the load. Not, unless we are only interested in generating traffic along that street.

Since this thread is focused on projects (and events) in DT Raleigh, allow me to share a few update photos I took recently.

Paramount:
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/Paramount/DSCF3944m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/Paramount/DSCF4339m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/Paramount/DSCF4628m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/Paramount/DSCF4629m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/Paramount/DSCF4630m.jpg

Quorum Center:
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/QuorumCenter/DSCF4318m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/QuorumCenter/DSCF4342m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/QuorumCenter/DSCF4632m.jpg

Seaboard Warehouses:
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/SeaboardStation/DSCF4199m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/SeaboardStation/DSCF4332m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/SeaboardStation/DSCF4457m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/SeaboardStation/DSCF4459m.jpg

Brookside Development:
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/Brookside/cropDSCF4443m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/Brookside/DSCF4442m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/Brookside/DSCF4444m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/Brookside/DSCF4445m.jpg

Why in the Earth can't they place the parking in the back?
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/Brookside/DSCF4446m.jpg

Contemporary Art Museum (current conditions):
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/ContemporaryArtMuseum/DSCF4636m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/ContemporaryArtMuseum/DSCF4637m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/ContemporaryArtMuseum/DSCF4638.jpg

i went by the quoram center the other day and saw the plywood panels with the number of the floor painted on them going up the building and thought it was pretty cool. It also looked like they were using some crazy tall pumpjack setup to lay the bricks.

Raleigh-NC, thanks very much for these extremely informative posts. This is easily the most exciting time in my almost 40 years in Raleigh! Please keep up the good work!

^^
The Marriott Hotel is a lost cause :( Do not expect anything nice about it, except for the interior. I have no problem with EIFS because it is not a bad material, assuming it is installed properly. However, the overall design, height and number of rooms leaves much to be desired; totally uninspired architecture :bash: The city focuses WAAAAAAAY too much on the street level, which is good for a hotel, anyway, and loses the war on the tower portion, which will be more visible than anything else.

Hasn't the amount of EIFS been reduced? I understand your frustration about the design though, but at least the street-level design is getting attention. It does require a delicate balance of both street-level and skyline aspects, though. In your view, how high should this hotel be and how many rooms should it have?

^^
The amount of EIFS is at 25%, but there will be none at the street-level. The initial study called for a 23-story/450-room hotel. This monstrosity is way below expectations, and all that for $71 million, of which $20 million will be paid through taxes. As a comparison, the 46-story Soleil Center will cost $90 million, and it is a far superior design to Stormont-Noble's proposal. Personally, I would be satisfied with something similar to the Norfolk Marriott Waterside. It is a very nice design and would have added more to Raleigh's skyline. The pedestrian activity can be easily fixed, but the tower portion isn't easy at all to change. Once it is built, that is it...

Glad y'all liked the updates :)

Does the city of Raleigh have a design review commission in place to study and critique the design of structures that go up in the city? The initial proposal of the convention center hotel in Columbia got shut down due to the vocal criticism coming from that group. And the Norfolk Marriott is awesome:

http://www.beyonddc.com/images/norfolk/downtown/mainst03-marriott.jpg

http://www.beyonddc.com/images/norfolk/downtown/marriott02.jpg

Yes, there is a committe, but I am afraid they receive too much pressure to make this project happen. If it was up to me, I would have told the developer to take a hike, or come up with something good, but unfortunately...

Does anyone know how much it would cost to build a hotel similar to Norfolk Marriott Waterside?

The Norfolk Marriott is a great looking hotel! I heard the Raleigh City Council liked it as well. So much so that they picked the developer of that hotel and about $1 billion worth of other major hotels - Baltimore Marriott Waterfront, Hyatt Wichita, etc. as the group to own and develop Raleigh's hotel.

Cooper Carry - the architect behind all the above projects as well as designed Fayetteville's Livable Streets, the Progress Energy building and now the RBC Centura HQ.

I guess these developers that have built legendary 4 and 5 star buildings throughout the US and the renowned architectural firm that major HQ's sought out don't really know what they are doing...

By the way, the entire Norfolk Marriott facade is EIFS...

By the way, the entire Norfolk Marriott facade is EIFS...

hahah, quality. I guess we (as in SSC) have been complaining more about the design than the use of EFIS...i really couldn't tell (by that picture) what is was made out of.

I bet the Norfolk Marriott will age better than the Westin in Charlotte.

I am afraid I am alone on this one, but EFIS doesn't bother me at all... When done right - that is, sealed properly - EFIS can be presentable and durable. From both the skyline and the street-level perspective, Norfolk Marriott Waterside is just as attractive as it can be. The ground-level experience is the easiest to remedy, especially during the design phase. There will always be one side of the building that will be the least attractive, but the city officials here want the entire ground-level to look elegant. That is reasonable, but hard to achieve, IMHO. I do not side with the developer, but I have to admit that the city officials are doing their absolute "best" to make it hard for Stormont-Noble to deliver something functional, as well as appealing. We should have been precise on what we wanted to see, from the VERY beginning. How hard was it for the city officials to sit down and decide what in the Earth they want? Before even put this project for bidding, the city should have been specific as to what and how we envision this hotel. Anyone that comes back with less than 450 rooms should be rejected... period. I am sure Stormont-Noble has the ability to deliver something as nice as the Marriott in Norfolk, so I am very puzzled as to why they didn't propose something similar :(

Now that the whole convention hotel "debate" is over, everyone seems to focus on connecting the dots, which is the right approach. Without a doubt, and much like other developing downtowns (i.e. Columbia, SC and Norfolk, VA), Raleigh's core is getting more than its fair share of smaller and bigger investments. One such great effort is made by the magazine Wake Living and one of its editors, Elizabeth Shugg:

Raleigh Reaches for the Sky - Heaven is a Downtown Condo Boom (http://wakeliving.com/aroundtown.asp)

Although it contains some factual errors - at least one that I can easily point out - as well as omits some equally crucial projects, this article is a great effort to tell readers that there is a lot going on downtown and we should all pay attention. This is not the first attempt by a "suburbanite" to introduce downtown to the rest of Wake County residents. In fact, Raleigh Downtowner is an effort by "suburbanites", which testifies what I have been saying all along: There are suburbanites that care about downtown and wish to have some urban experiences. I have yet to see any good publications coming out of Raleigh's central neighborhoods; I am not sure about Raleigh Metro magazine, though.

The supplied link will not be there forever because, to the best of my knowledge, there is no archives section :( Those of you who wish to order the latest issue can do so by clicking on the "Subscribe" tab, or simply pick up a copy at your local library - assuming you live in this area.

Last, but not least, there is a link to Quorum Center (the condominiums component): The Residences at Quorum Center (http://www.thereynoldscompanies.com/residences/index.html). Nothing revealing, but useful, nevertheless.

Today's N&O posted an article, titled 2 more stories, maybe (http://www.newsobserver.com/104/v-print/story/419973.html), where the possibility of pushing the 29-story RBC Centura tower to 31 floors. One way or another I am very happy about this project, but I think they put too much emphasis on making it [slightly] the tallest in downtown. Unless we discuss a 40-50 story tower, I see no reason for hype. Good news, nevertheless.

The "additions" that pushed the height another 2 stories can be summarized in the following: 290,000sf of office space (an 8.6 percent increase), 17,000sf of retail space (a 21.4 percent increase), 11 more condo units (151, up from 140 unitis) and 572 parking spaces (a 6.9 percent increase).

Another nice amenity will be a 20th-floor swimming pool. The swimming pool pattern seems to be favored for several new projects: The Paramount includes one on the 5th floor, LaFayette Hotel may also include a pool on the top (15th) floor, and the 32-story Reynolds Tower I is rumored to get a pool on the 7th floor. Separate elevator bays are also considered for the RBC Centura Tower - one for the residential portion and another for the offices - which is a great idea, I think.

Let's hope that Highwoods Properties takes this opportunity and build a new tallest for DT Raleigh. They have a great piece of land for such a building, plus a major tenant that will need room to expand in the future. If the residential portion gets a positive response from buyers - hey, Raleighites don't have the abundance of choices to live on a condo 20 stories above ground, therefore it makes a lot of sense to assume these residences will become another success story.

I am just curious...these plans there were submitted to the city of Raleigh...were they submitted to the Planning Dept for review...or is this a Building Permit request?

Does anyone have a new rendering of the proposed building? I'd like to see the changes that were made (besides the additional floors).

I believe that the new plans were submitted to the Planning Dept, but that was back on March 1st, or late February. However, we were told in the presentation that it was only some aesthetic changes - less vertical lines, more glass - not any increase in size, so this may be a new version of the tower with additional space. I expect no changes in the design, therefore it will be safe to assume that the 2 floors were added in the condo portion because the 20th floor pool remains the same like before, although I wasn't sure about what was going there. Logically, another 18-20 feet can be added to give us the final height (~420ft).

The important thing to keep in mind is that the tower may not get the additional height, therefore it will be pre-mature to celebrate. I am glad they are considering this option, and I hope the demand will push the tower even higher, but with Reynolds Tower I coming up, condo buyers may hold off a little longer, until they see what Reynolds & Reynolds will offer. If Palladium Plaza is more than 65% pre-sold, I see no reason why RBC Centura Tower won't be a desirable location.

A bit off topic: Today I walked around a little and took a few photos. I spoke to a lady who lives in Sir Walter Apt and recently moved to Raleigh from Columbus, OH. She was very excited to live there but she caught me off-guard when she said that everything she needs is in the vicinity!!! I was pleasantly surprised, but I know that she is in the minority... Most people's needs cannot be satisfied, at this point in time, if they live on Fayetteville Street. Also, I was [unplesantly] surprised to see more construction workers on Fayetteville Street than people unrelated to construction... I was very puzzled and it was the first time I saw the balance shifting. You would think that more people would be walking along Fayetteville Street now that parts of the streets are slowly opening. Stay tuned for construction update photos.

Personally, I see RBC HQ as a missed opportunity. Like Raleigh-NC said, Highwoods should capitalize on a prime location and booming downtown, but they have only matched what many now see as obsolete. I think that the city council and downtown raleigh alliance are waiting for something big, the only problem is that they too have missed a grand opportunity. They have pressed highwoods little about better height and details to make this building a signature building. Raleigh cannot just sit on its rear and wait for Reynolds to come out with his plan, make him fight to have Raleigh's tallest by pushing RBC to be taller. Developers will see the "race" and be intrigued enough to maybe come with new designs.

Another tidbit, according to the Triangle Business Journal, the new Convention Center is on track to break predictions of capacity and conventions in 2008, and supposedly, i dont know if this is true, they have begun to book towards as far as 2012. the only drawback is the extreme lack of hotels in and around Downtown Raleigh that are in walking distance of the CC. there are only 900 rooms including the new Marriott. The article made the case that leaders are working hard to book conventions and shows, but places like Charlotte (over 4000 rooms uptown) and Greensboro (2500 rooms near Koury Center and Arena) are winning the battle. City leaders need to find a way to help this problem, or they will have missed yet again another opportunity.

ok...well keep your eye on the building permits...once that comes out the height is set in stone.

If RBC REALLY wants to make a statement, they'll make the tower higher than the Soleil Center to make it the tallest IN THE CITY, and not just downtown.

I must agree with Rufus, Highwoods/RBC Centura have surely missed a chance to make a statement. Making Reynolds & Reynolds "fight it out" with Highwoods, etc. is not amusing, but I think it will work. Or, Reynolds & Reynolds will stand to lose a lot in this fight and turn their tower into a not-so-succesful project. The city officials, with the exception of a few, do not support the new tallest to be outside Fayetteville Street, which shows how small their vision is. If it was up to me, I would place the tallest towers along Salisbury and McDowell streets - the N&O block is a golden opportunity, and possibly the last one for Raleigh to get something above 40 stories. Not that I would object a 500+ footer right where RBC Centura HQ will go. Let's see if Fidelity Investments will pick the Triangle, and DT Raleigh in particular ;)

The article about the new convention center is right on the money. Without sufficient hotel rooms, the center's future success is not going to be an easy one. Which is why the proposed convention hotel should offer well above 500 rooms, if not above 750. I think that the only hope we have right now is Soleil Group; if Soleil Center proves to be a success, they would certainly jump into the opportunity to build a new hotel, which could accommodate the convention crowds, this time in DT Raleigh.

krazeeboi, you said it right... If RBC Centura and Highwoods Properties want to play smart, they should eclipse ALL the towers in Raleigh, built and proposed. As a comparison, look at the following specs:

Soleil Center: 46 stories, 480ft, 600,000sf and total cost ~$90 million.
RBC Centura Tower: 31 stories, 420ft, >720,000sf and total cost ~$100 million.

That is why I support Soleil Center, as proposed. A world class design, at a decent cost, which will make a strong statement. I am grateful for RBC Centura Tower, but for the money they will spend, they could have gone for something above 50 stories/500ft and make a HUGE statement. We all know it could have been much worse, though.

Regarding the Convention Center, according to the 'Livable Streets' website, the main convention hall will only be 150k square feet after phase 1. This was remarkable because, according to Greensboro's Convention Center website, it looks like theirs is 167k square feet.

Can this be right????? How could the city build something that wasn't at least beating Greensboro in Phase 1, and eye-ing Charlotte in Phase 2?

I hope I'm reading these number incorrectly.

No, you are not reading that incorrectly. While the entire convention center will be 500,000sf, the main exhibit area will only be 150,000sf. Sadly, our city leaders didn't think of the image that our city needs to promote and thought small. However, we will need to keep in mind two things: the quality of the exhibit area and the overall amenities. Raleigh may not aim to beat the other two NC cities in exhibit space, but we will certainly offer something for everyone. Plus, to make our convention center a winner, we need to provide reasonable operating cost, sufficient number of hotel rooms, state of the art facilities and nice city feel, which eventually we will. Besides, 17,000sf feet isn't a big difference between Raleigh's and Greensboro's centers - we simply cannot compete with Charlotte - but the lack of hotel rooms should be far more alarming. I would bet some money on Reynolds Tower I, but the distance with the convention center makes this project a bit less likely to provide another 500 rooms. Unless the 15-story Reynolds Tower II becomes a taller convention hotel, which is very unlikely, in my opinion.

Some of you might have seen this already in the N&O, but let me provide a link to an article, titled More than a parking deck (http://www.newsobserver.com/102/v-print/story/420230.html). The article is about one of the proposed redevelopment sites, at the SW corner of Davie and McDowell Streets. There was a talk about this site, several months ago, and back then there was a speculation about placing some condos, with ground-floor retail, in front of the proposed 832-space parking deck. While I have not seen any plans, it sounds like an interesting project. If anything, it will cover the parking deck. The proposed 6-story building will feature 44 loft-style condos in 4 floors, above 2 stories/8,150sf of retail. Based on some initial plans, the building will have brick exterior with large metal-framed windows.

My conclusion: Yet-another missed opportunity for something bigger and better. 5-6 stories is too small for that area and does nothing more than eliminating more valuable land. Something around 10-15 stories would probably work better as a minimum. My hope is that if the county selects the same builder that will do the residential part, the developer may decide to combine both elements into one structure: 2 floors of retail, another 5-6 floors of parking, with some of it behind the retail, as planned, and then another 4-5 stories of condominiums. That might work much better, in my opinion. Regardless, it will be a nice thing to see another surface lot disappear in favor of a bigger, urban project, not to mention it may shift some interest in areas that need it the most.

The only thing i dont like is the city just waiting on its rear end for Soleil to become a success. plus, that isnt downtown, which hurts their idea of NC's mainstreet and redevelopment. If they sit on their butts waiting for success rather than working towards success, then places like North Hills, Crabtree, Brier Creek, and Triangle Town Center will steal away whatever they havent already taken. Already, North Hills and Crabtree are luring away former downtown businesses with the help of private developers. That should ring an uncomfortable bell with city leaders as they have focused on public money only to see half job developments and projects taking years to even make it to the planning commission. Wake up city leaders, and read the paper, day after day places like North Hills are saying and acting on what they promise, all you are doing is promising and hoping to get people. Fight for good and excellent development and don have another CC hotel fiasco, or else it will be another embarassment on a promising future.

I like the location for solei there are already several highrises in that area, and its really not that far from downtown. Would be nice if it was downtown but the fact is most of the population lives in north/west raleigh.

I like the location for solei there are already several highrises in that area, and its really not that far from downtown. Would be nice if it was downtown but the fact is most of the population lives in north/west raleigh.

Remind me again what high rises already exist at Crabtree.

The only thing i dont like is the city just waiting on its rear end for Soleil to become a success. plus, that isnt downtown, which hurts their idea of NC's mainstreet and redevelopment. If they sit on their butts waiting for success rather than working towards success, then places like North Hills, Crabtree, Brier Creek, and Triangle Town Center will steal away whatever they havent already taken. Already, North Hills and Crabtree are luring away former downtown businesses with the help of private developers. That should ring an uncomfortable bell with city leaders as they have focused on public money only to see half job developments and projects taking years to even make it to the planning commission. Wake up city leaders, and read the paper, day after day places like North Hills are saying and acting on what they promise, all you are doing is promising and hoping to get people. Fight for good and excellent development and don have another CC hotel fiasco, or else it will be another embarassment on a promising future.

The city is spending well over 200 million dollars to pull people downtown! what else do you expect the city to do??? Looking at all the growth downtown, the city is doing anything but sitting on its butt. Noone is going to agree with every single decision: be it hotel heights or chandeliers, but I think most everyone can agree that Raleigh is making tremendous progress,

Also a successful North Hills/Crabtree does not mean that we are hurting downtown; its quite possible and likely that all of these districts can prosper together. Even though downtown's revival is important right now, there are and will always be Raleigh residents outside of downtown. If the city can create urban developments outside of downtown, then it still benefits the city (serving more residents with more effecient infrastructure.)

Finally Soleil's location is not up for debate. Either we get a shiny tower next to Crabtree, or we don't get one at all. I'd prefer it downtown as well, but until I have the money to bankroll it, its up to the developers.

uptownliving, it depends on one's definition of a high-rise, which is VERY subjective and varies from individual to individual. Currently, the 12-story tower that will be replaced by Soleil Center and the 12-story Holiday Inn are the only two buildings that would qualify as taller mid-rises. Other than that, Embassy Suites stands 9 stories tall and the Homewood Suites is 7 stories tall. My personal definition of a high-rise is 15 stories and above, but Emporis.com uses 10 and above for its high-rise category. I would guess that emutiny takes the landscape in consideration, which makes even smaller buildings look tall.

Rufus, there are fundamental differences between downtown and North Hills (or Crabtree Valley), and one of them is the population/demographics. It is sad to think that the city officials spend so much time and money revitalizing downtown, while North Hills needs no additional promotion, but the nearby population makes the difference; the amount of retail and entertainment options are there to support any North Hills development. However, downtown's success depends a lot on the success of North Hills, Soleil Center and other projects closer to the center and away from the "burbs". Also important is the fact that no major downtown project can be done in phases like North Hills. The ones that will take some time (i.e. North Blount Street) will most likely become success stories. No matter how successful North Hills may become, it will not have the image that downtown can provide for the entire city. Soleil Center will be an iconic building, North Hills will provide Raleigh with a mini [second] skyline once all the 10 proposed mid-rises get built in that area, but only downtown can offer the real city feel. By the time North Hills is finished, downtown will have a lot more destinations and significantly increased population.

One thing I do not expect is for the city leaders to wake up and think big. I am afraid that it will take a VERY long time to see the changes we want to see. I am not suggesting that the city officials do not work hard to improve downtown, but the big vision that will bring huge investments to the core of Raleigh simply isn't there :( Let's hope that the convention hotel fiasco will work as an eye opener, but I am afraid to guess what will be the next fiasco. I try to focus on the good things, and they are not a few.

Well...hotels have notoriously low ceilings...and both the Holiday Inn and old Sheraton at Crabtree fit that category with 8ft ceilings.....meaning the floors run about 10ft each. Meaning they are about 120ft tall....which is 30 ft shorter than your typical 10 story office building.

Correct... The elevation in that area is probably what makes things a bit more interesting, not the height of those buildings. Although I hate that Crabtree Valley is in a flood zone, I love the whole setting.

Back to downtown talk, there was a not-so-positive article, and I will let you read it and judge for yourselves: Report: Utility could be bought (http://www.newsobserver.com/104/v-print/story/420655.html).

In brief, the article discusses the possibility of Progress Energy being bought by another utility company in Georgia. There is always some sort of fiction in these speculations, but there is also a lot of truth. If Progress Energy gets bought, it is more than certain that Raleigh will lose its only Fortune-500 headquarters. Personally, I do not care about having a Fortune-anything HQ, but I would be an idiot to think that there will be no [negative] impact if Progress Energy ceases to exist as we know it. First of all, the vacancy rate will increase, which sometimes may be a great venue for companies that wish to relocate ASAP - remember that DT Durham missed the chance to get Credit Suisse because there was not enough space available for the firm's needs.Second, and this may be far worse, less people will be walking around the streets of DT Raleigh. Could this rumor affect negatively proposed projects like Highwoods/RBC Centura Tower, Site 1 and Reynolds Tower I & II? Most definitely, it will create some sort of uncertainty and problems.

One way for Progress Energy is to turn things around by reducing their debt. Selling assets may be a good way to do this. Starting with DT Raleigh, they will have to get the most out their properties to the North and West of Two Progress Plaza. To achieve this, they will need to put aside their large ego and stop creating obstacles, such as their "nobody can build above our towers directly across from us" attitude. I truly wish that these rumors are not true and that Progress Energy will pull this somehow. Last season was very tough on them, due to the hurricanes in Florida, so let's hope this season they will catch a little break. Regardless, the news is alarming and any negative outcome for Progress Energy will cause problems for DT Raleigh. Expect new delays, until things turn for the better :(

The Energy industry is on the verge of a major consolidation so Progress is either going to buy someone, or get bought out.

Duke Energy made the first major move by buying Cinergy...putting Duke Energy in the Top 5 energy companies in the USA. And Duke is not stopping there...they plan to buy more. I don't think its likely they will be buying Progress....but since the NC Utility Commision has to sign off on these things...would they rather keep the HQ in NC...or have it move to Atlanta?

^^
Yes, I'd much rather see Progress Energy "stay" in North Carolina, as long as it remains a healthy company. Anything that will keep PE's workforce to DT Raleigh.

If theres anything true about this, The City of Raleigh should work with Progress and Southern Co. and do what ever it takes to get the new HQ here.

If theres anything true about this, The City of Raleigh should work with Progress and Southern Co. and do what ever it takes to get the new HQ here.

Good luck on getting Southern Co. to move their HQ to Raleigh....that'll be the day.

yes, the elevation makes the embassy suites appear taller than 9 stories i figured it was in the area of 11 or 12. I like downtown, north hills, and crabtree. in fact im in favor of any development in raleigh especially tall buildings. I cant wait till i see that baby coming over the horizon as im heading down the beltline. Downtown just seems to be on the edge of poor south east raleigh and the high priced rtp commuters in north raleigh, which i think is a good reason for developers no to want to touch it.

I am a firm believer that taller buildings along major roads (i.e. Capital Blvd, Atlantic Ave, Falls of Neuse, Six Forks) could achieve a lot for Raleigh. Anything between 6 and 12 stories is pretty good for main corridors outside downtown. I do not foresee this any time in the next 20 years, but it would have been nice if S. Saunders could get a few decent mid-rises, forming an inviting entrance to downtown from the South. The same holds true about Capital Blvd directly to the North of downtown, and I think this is where DT Raleigh has a chance because there are at least a few [redevelopment] plans for that area.

Creating a "healthy" connectivity has not yet been a priority for the city officials and that is why we have not seen much interest from developers at this point in time. If it wasn't for Glenwood South, the connectivity with the rest of the city would have been minimal. Maybe with the new convention center and the other South End projects something will change for the better. A little more development along Hillsborough Str, plus the North Blount Str district redevelopment could turn things around for good, leaving only 1-2 spots where developers will have to focus. Maybe 30 years down the road we can talk about a true urban center. Until then, city officials will remain focused on Fayetteville Street only :bash:

Just a slight deviation towards another proposal that recently received additional publicity: The Contemporary Art Museum. WRAL had a story, titled Raleigh Art Foundation Receives City Grant To Build In Downtown (http://www.wral.com/news/8166379/detail.html), in which you may also view a nice little video. I captured an image that I would like to share with you:

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/ContemporaryArtMuseum/CAM-RaleighNC-2.jpg

The rendering shows the mass of the residential mid-rise (anywhere between 8 and 12 stories), looking towards the North-East. The green lawn you see is Nash Square. To get a bit more creative, I added the proposed N&O's new HQ, just to see how the area will look like in a few years... assuming everything goes well:

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/ContemporaryArtMuseum/CAM-RaleighNC-3.jpg

The 7-story condo building on Hargett and Dawson - in the rendering it would appear right above the central horizontal axis, to the left - will also add some mass to the area, but no real height, unless they build loft-type units. Whatever they deliver, it will be a great addition to that area's [slowly] growing residential options. Here are a few photos for you to see, although they have been posted on Page 8 of this thread... sorry about it.

Proposal (with the 12-story mid-rise... just to stay on the optimistic side):
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/ContemporaryArtMuseum/cropdscf4613m.jpg

The same angle, as is today - facing West, at the intersection of Harrington and Martin streets:
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/ContemporaryArtMuseum/DSCF4638m.jpg

Looking South-East, at the intersection of West and Martin streets:
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/ContemporaryArtMuseum/DSCF4636m.jpg

Facing East, on the Martin Street side. For those not very familiar with DT Raleigh, the proposed RBC Centura Tower will appear at the left-most of the photo. The proposed Courthouse Annex will also appear on the same side, in front of RBC Centura's new HQ:
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/ContemporaryArtMuseum/DSCF4637m.jpg

I try to keep my original post, with the list of projects, as up to date as possible. If you see any errors, please let me know. I have rearranged things a bit and included some new links. Check it out ;)

Even though the 7-story condo building is only a midrise, it looks spiffy. Anything that will help put people on the street is a good thing, especially if there are a minimum of residents to begin with; it wouldn't make sense to start out with a 20-story condo tower.

Not that it matters much, but the second option is actually an 8-story building :lol: As for the height, even the 8-story mid-rise will add to that area because it seems like the smaller version will feature loft-type condos, with the exception of the last floor. Take a look at a clearer version here:

http://www.raleighnc.gov/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_0_2_306_203_0_43/http%3B/pt03/DIG_Web_Content/project/public/livable_streets/Images/1688PersSchemeA.jpg

For comparison reasons, look at both renderings (facing South-West):
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/ContemporaryArtMuseum/cropdscf4613s.jpg http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/ContemporaryArtMuseum/cropdscf4614s.jpg

Not much difference in height, just less units. Seriously, I would welcome anything in that area, which is actually not a bad place. To the North-East there are some condos (see photo below), and when it comes to dinning and entertainment, there are more than enough options, all of them within 5 minutes walking distance.

Martin Str condos:
http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/24730650.jpg

I am a firm believer that taller buildings along major roads (i.e. Capital Blvd, Atlantic Ave, Falls of Neuse, Six Forks) could achieve a lot for Raleigh. Anything between 6 and 12 stories is pretty good for main corridors outside downtown. I do not foresee this any time in the next 20 years, but it would have been nice if S. Saunders could get a few decent mid-rises, forming an inviting entrance to downtown from the South. The same holds true about Capital Blvd directly to the North of downtown, and I think this is where DT Raleigh has a chance because there are at least a few [redevelopment] plans for that area.



I completely agree. The area around capital boulevard and the beltline where highwoods has its building (prob 8-9 stories) and 2 other buildings, one of them is a rbc centura building like 7 stories and another green one like 8 or 9 is a good example of what a small cluster of midrises can do. I wish i had a picture to share.

side note : Whenever i go through Washington D.C. I find it amazing all of the clusters of tall buildings along the side of 95 for miles. Raleigh could emulate this well since it has a "commuting culture"

I have a photo of the cluster you mentioned. Those three buildings do miracles for that area, although they are nothing more than an office park :( Unless somebody beats me to it, I will post one of my photos, when I find it. However, I do think that what we'll see in North Hills will certainly eclipse any other area outside downtown, assuming everything goes as planned. With a total of 9 mid-rises, from 7 to 12 stories high, the second bigger skyline for Raleigh will most definitely impress. Take the following photo and try to imagine that area with 9 more buildings of size similar to what you see already:

http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/55088815.jpg

I had created an image that could demonstrate the envisioned skyline, but didn't like it and got rid of it. Anyone with skills who has seen the plans and knows the area well enough can create something for all of us to see.

By the way, emutiny, I totally agree with your Washington DC comment. Raleigh could adopt some great things from our nation's capitol. I think it would be impossible to argue Washington's urbanity and taking the good things from that city would be a wise move on our side. Capital Blvd is certainly a great candidate and I hope that the City of Raleigh treats this corridor with respect. Please, no more warehouses and shopping centers :bash:

Here comes some great news: Not one, but two grocery stores are planned for downtown, with a rumor for a third one having surfaced. According to Downtown Raleigh Alliance's (DRA's) newsletter, besides the 14,000sf Capital City Grocery that is about to open at the Seaboard Station, a bodega-style market - a small grocery store - is planned for Fayetteville Street, by the same grocer. This is exciting news and we should all celebrate :cheers:

^I remember when the Seaboard Station grocery was announced, that they planned on putting another one in the heart of DT once a "suitable space" had been found. Did they mention where that might be??

No mention of that location, but I suspect Alexander Sq as the candidate ;) DRA helped the owners secure the loan for the first grocery store, with one condition: to open a smaller grocery store on Fayetteville Street, which tells me that the deal will be sealed soon after Seaboard Station is done. Alexander Place is the best candidate, IMHO.

emutiny, here is the image I promised to post. It was taken today, though, from the Cardinal Club (28th and 29th floors of Wachovia Center) and I hope it shows the area clearly. The biggest issue is that there are no plans for more mid-rises in that area, even though it is an office park. All three buildings are truly nice when you see them with your own eyes. Quite frankly, I would prefer them to be downtown, but what the heck, they look nice where they are, too.

http://www.pbase.com/image/57835561.jpg

^for any1 not familiar with Raleigh those buildings create a much nicer effect then shown when driving along I-440. It gives that stretch a bit of big city feel which will only improve once the Soleil Center is built.

Village At Pilot Mill is a wonderful community of urban single-family homes. One of those unique success stories, where new houses built next to a publicly funded project (Capitol Park) not only sell like hot cakes, but also gain tremendous value within a short period of time. Out of ~105 homes, there are only a few sites left (based on the latest information). You might have seen some photos from the past, but here is the Blount Street section, which I truly like because of the elevated positions of the houses.

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/VillageAtPilotMill/DSCF2331m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/VillageAtPilotMill/DSCF2333m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/VillageAtPilotMill/DSCF4449m.jpg

If some of you recall, there were plans for shops, on the Southern end of this development, but were cancelled because of two reasons: 1) demand for additional units, and 2) conversion of Seaboard Warehouses into retail and entertainment destinations (there is a rumor for a live Jazz music venue coming nearby).

Home of the first major grocery store in DT Raleigh, Seaboard Warehouses promises to be a retail center for the downtown population, and not only. Along with some retail, at least one restaurant and one entertainment venue are expected to join the effort to redevelop this section of downtown. Keep in mind that the North Blount Street district is nearby ;) Here are some of the photos I took recently.

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/SeaboardWarehouses/DSCF4149m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/SeaboardWarehouses/DSCF4332m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/SeaboardWarehouses/DSCF4334m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/SeaboardWarehouses/DSCF4457m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/SeaboardWarehouses/DSCF4458m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/SeaboardWarehouses/DSCF4459m.jpg

^for any1 not familiar with Raleigh those buildings create a much nicer effect then shown when driving along I-440. It gives that stretch a bit of big city feel which will only improve once the Soleil Center is built.

Agreed.

Do you guys think the walnut terrace housing project will see a similar fate as chavis heights? Right now it gets my vote for the most depressing area in downtown Raleigh.

Eventually, something might happen. I am not for displacing people, but if we can provide a better environment for them nearby, it may be worth the try to attract another Federal-funded project - I doubt the city has the funds to pull this. I have not driven through there for almost a year, but to tell you the truth, that area has tremendous potential. While not included as part of downtown (officially), I think it should become part of South End. MLK Jr Blvd does not present the same division that highways do, so it shouldn't be hard to create a new community, well integrated with downtown. I will not be surprised if something gets announced, although I would wait until the "facelift' of Chavis Heights gets completed. Hopefully, the East and West portions of Lee Street will be connected.

Which brings me to the next question: Am I the only one who finds the new Chavis Heights a bit suburban? Here is an image for your review:

http://www.raleighnc.gov/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_0_2_306_203_0_43/http%3B/pt03/DIG_Web_Content/project/public/livable_streets/Images/ChavisPlan.jpg

Not the best layout they can come up with. Capitol Park is far supperior in terms of layout, with outstanding connectivity and great density. Outside one proposed new street, all I see is at least 4 opportunities for allowing access to Haywood Ln, yet none of them is planned. My recommendations would include:

1) Connect Lenoir Str with Chavis Way, via a new road that will run behind Wake County Crosby-Garfield site.
2) Connect Chavis Way with Haywood Lane at the section where the Chavis Memorial will be.
3) Connect Chavis Way with Haywood Lane at the new proposed public street height.
4) Connect Chavis Way with Haywood Lane using two more roads parallel to the proposed public street and MLK Jr Blvd.

I am not sure why they decided to make Chavis Height so disconnected/unconnected, so if you know something about this (i.e. landscape obstacles), please enlighten me. It seems to me that Capitol Park was designed VERY well, placing the parking behind the houses. I cannot see why not taking one section of Chavis Heights and develop it, leaving the rest for another time, when additional funding allows for expansion. Many people complained that the number of units will be far less than the current one.

Great news about the grocery store; you'd be surprised at what it can do for downtown.

Yes, it is a great addition, although there is another small scale market in the City Market area (shown below, to the right of the photo, for those who are familiar with that area) plus Conti's Deli. However, DT Raleigh needs [desperately] a larger scale market. My wife and I will be driving from North Raleigh to support this store when it opens, even though we have several good options around our house, some within short walking distance, but let's face it, there is already lots of competition from supermarkets near downtown. Cameron Village has a nice Harris Teeter and there is a Food Lion (I think) on New Bern Ave, both within 5 minutes drive. Naturally, residents of Capitol Park, Village At Pilot Mill, Oakwood and Mordecai will support the first major grocery, but the bulk of the business will come from the nearby North Blount Street district, when the new developments are finished, several years down the road.

http://www.pbase.com/raleighmsa/image/25704752.jpg

As for the Fayetteville Street location, I expect the business to come mostly from the residential units at Hudson, Sir Walter Raleigh Apts, RBC Centura/Highwoods tower, Site 1, Site 4, and Progress Plaza North. That will be a significant market and I am sure any small scale grocery could become successful, as long as prices are not crazy. They could even arrange home delivery easily ;)

the new chavis heights looks very raleigh to me, but im sure it will be a big improvement. I wouldnt advise anybody to go down haywood st though! lol

^^
I would not consider Haywood Str for my list of up and coming downtown - and nearby - neighborhoods. It will be very hard to convert the South-East section of downtown into a desirable place, anyway. Quite frankly, I am in total disagreement with the city's vision of single-family homes dominating the landscape around Haywood Str. There are only a few times when I agree with Greg Hatem's vision, but I think he was right when he explained the reasons he did not bid for this area. Without high(er)-density residential developments (i.e. townhomes, condos) there is little chance for profits and incentives. Until the city officials change their position, they will have a very hard time to turn things around in this section of Raleigh. Other than that, the potential is great.

Nothing special to share except for my latest shot of QuorumCenter:

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/QuorumCenter/DSC_0440m.jpg

Nothing special to share except for my latest shot of QuorumCenter:

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/QuorumCenter/DSC_0440m.jpg


Coming along very nicely....Time for another anouncement soon I hope??? :cheers:

^^
Most certainly, Reynolds Tower 1 will at least meet our expectations. I know that the developers want to make this tower the tallest in DT Raleigh, but it is not an easy thing. At best, they may get the satisfaction of building the tower with the highest number of floors, although it will not make that huge of a difference when compared to the other towers. Honestly, 32 floors is perfectly nice. If the envisioned 15-story Reynolds Tower 2 gets built within 4-5 years apart from Tower 1, the skyline will look impressive and hopefully grow. If Greg Hatem could build something between 20 and 25 stories on the site next to Clarion Hotel, I would certainly celebrate :) The West skyline would look tall, dense and beautiful.

Let me shift closer to the CBD, where three smaller residential projects seem to co-exist and add to the momentum: The Dawson, The Hudson and Palladium Plaza. All three of them faced obstacles to overcome and hit bumps along the way, but they also have one thing in common: they were scaled down from larger versions :( The Dawson went from a wonderful 15-story high-rise, to an 11-story mid-rise, to a 5-story low-rise. The Hudson site was speculated for a 40-story tower, by a local developer, was sold to a company that envisioned a nice 6-story mixed-use building, only to be reduced to 5 stories and end up looking more like a garage deck :( After a rough start, The Hudson is finally gaining some visibility and the proposed RBC Centura tower next to it may only add value - now it is off to a good path. Finally, Palladium Plaza is another mixed bag project. I am glad it happens, I am glad pre-sales were good from the beginning, but to see the original 8-story proposal scaled down to 5 stories isn't exactly good news. Not because of the height itself, but because the 5-story structure will be overwhelmed by two garage decks :bash: Anyway, this project is now under construction and things seem to move fast!!! Another lot is slowly disappearing :okay:

THE DAWSON

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/Dawson/DSC_0616m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/Dawson/DSC_0618m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/Dawson/DSC_0619m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/Dawson/DSC_0620m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/Dawson/DSC_0621m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/Dawson/DSC_0622m.jpg

THE HUDSON

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/Hudson/DSC_0652m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/Hudson/DSC_0560m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/Hudson/DSC_0561m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/Hudson/DSC_0562m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/Hudson/DSC_0565m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/Hudson/DSC_0567m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/Hudson/DSC_0570m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/Hudson/DSC_0572m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/Hudson/DSC_0573m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/Hudson/DSC_0574m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/Hudson/DSC_0577m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/Hudson/DSC_0579m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/Hudson/DSC_0580m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/Hudson/DSC_0581m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/Hudson/DSC_0584m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/Hudson/DSC_0585m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/Hudson/DSC_0654m.jpg

PALLADIUM PLAZA

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/PalladiumPlaza/DSC_0474m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/PalladiumPlaza/DSC_0476m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/PalladiumPlaza/DSC_0486m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/PalladiumPlaza/DSC_0488m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/PalladiumPlaza/DSC_0490m.jpg

I would hate to place all the photos in one posting, so here is yet-another construction update, especially for you who haven't been to Fayetteville Street recently ;) I have a ton of photos of this project, but I will stick with the latest ones. Kind of hard to believe this project's Phase 1 will be completed sometime between May and June, but the project has been moving fast, at a pace that exceeds expectations!!!

FAYETTEVILLE STREET

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/FayettevilleStreet/DSC_0243m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/FayettevilleStreet/DSC_0495m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/FayettevilleStreet/DSC_0496m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/FayettevilleStreet/DSC_0499m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/FayettevilleStreet/DSC_0554m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/FayettevilleStreet/DSC_0653m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/FayettevilleStreet/DSC_0658m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/FayettevilleStreet/DSC_0659m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/FayettevilleStreet/DSC_0660m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/FayettevilleStreet/DSC_0663m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/FayettevilleStreet/DSC_0665m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/FayettevilleStreet/DSC_0668m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/FayettevilleStreet/DSC_0670m.jpg

Great pictures! It's good to see the work along Fayetteville progressing nicely.

Oh, yes!!! It is really exciting, although I am not happy with the width of the sidewalks... They made them too wide, in my opinion, but other than that, the street looks very nice. When RBC Centura tower, Sites 1, 2, 3 and the convention hotel are completed, we will have a nice vista, again.

From what I can see in the pictures, the sidewalks seem to be of an appropriate size. But maybe I need to see them in person to judge a bit more accurately.

Thanks for the great pictures Ernest!
It is really exciting to see how much stuff is going on! :)

The sidewalks are FREAKIN WIDE. I like the granite curbs and granite barriers surrounding the trees. The pavers also seem appropriate. Personally I disagree with the whole fayetteville street mall conversion but Id say im happy with the appearance of the project.

Oh i also noticed that they are building a new fayetteville st. entrance to the courthouse but Its still to early to tell what it will look like.

i found this on wakegov.com the date is kinda old tho

May 16, 2005 ITEM # 11
_____________________________________________________________________



Item Title: Approval of Schematic Design for Renovations to the Fayetteville Street Entrance to the Courthouse



Specific Action Requested:

That the Board of Commissioners approves the schematic design for Courthouse Fayetteville Street entry and plaza renovations.



Item Summary:

The Wake County Courthouse is a twelve-story building containing approximately 331,150 square feet with a mechanical penthouse and two additional lower parking levels. The building was constructed in the late 1960's to serve Wake County as a Courthouse, Office Building and 170-bed Jail. Since its original construction the use of the Courthouse has substantially changed. Some of the more significant changes include:



Conversion of County office space (floors 6-12) to courtrooms or court related use;
Demolition of the 170-bed jail (5th floor) and renovating the space for courtrooms;
Crosswalk connection to the Wake County Office Building;
Construction of tunnel connection to the Public Safety Center.


There are currently 25 heavily used courtrooms, along with various support functions of the Tenth Judicial District, located in the Courthouse which have substantially increased occupancy loads in the building.



In 1998 a comprehensive study was commissioned to identify the long-term facility needs of the Tenth Judicial District. Additionally County staff and officials of the Raleigh Inspections Department reached agreement in 2003 on an outline of a 10-year plan of phased improvements to the Courthouse. These improvements included removal of asbestos containing materials, installation of fire sprinkler and alarm systems, bring the building into compliance with current high-rise building codes, and provide additional building accommodations as required by the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). This 10-year plan (8 years remaining) was recently updated to align with the 30-year Justice Facility Master Plan which was presented to the Board of Commissioners (Board) in December 2004 and to reflect the 2006 opening of Fayetteville Street.



Consistent with the referenced facility plans the Fayetteville Street entry plaza of the Courthouse is being redesigned so that this entrance is handicap accessible from the soon to be re-opened public street. This will require the lowering and reconstruction of the existing plaza to provide a means of access and egress required by ADA from the Courthouse first floor to Fayetteville Street. Since the two levels of below grade parking extend under the plaza eastward to the street right-of-way some building structural modifications are required to permit lowering the plaza. The originally installed waterproofing system under the plaza protecting the below grade parking is exhibiting signs of deterioration and will also be replaced. Intake grills for bringing fresh air into the parking levels are currently located in sidewalks to be demolished by the Fayetteville Street project. The air intake system is undersized for current code compliance and therefore will be relocated away from the sidewalk and enlarged.



The design for the reconstruction of the Courthouse plaza has been reviewed by the City of Raleigh, and coordinated with their plans to reopen Fayetteville Street. As part of this plan the elevation of the street sidewalk will be slightly raised in front of the courthouse to provide the visual effect of the front plaza appearing more of a public square. The design of the new plaza, its furnishings, landscaping and lighting have been carefully planned to provide an appropriate level of security, while remaining an attractive entry to this important civic building in downtown Raleigh. The schedule for the project has been developed to coincide with the Fayetteville Street construction project currently underway. The streetscape improvements along the western side of Fayetteville Street adjacent to the Courthouse are not included in the City's current street construction contract. Completion of the building renovations and plaza reconstruction is projected for Spring 2006. Drawings depicting the proposed renovations are attached for review.



The Project Architect, Kurt Eichenberger, AIA will present the schematic design and describe the project in more detail at the meeting. Construction cost for this project is projected to total $1.5 million. The criminal justice element of the capital improvement program (CIP) currently contains a balance of approximately $665,000 designated for this project. The remaining funding of $857,000 was projected in the 7-year CIP endorsed by the Board last year and is included in the proposed CIP for FY06. The County has requested reimbursement from the City of Raleigh for approximately $100,000 to cover the cost of the Courthouse work being done in the public street right-of-way. County and City staff have discussed the need for an interlocal agreement to address the funding and logistical issues associated with the Fayetteville Street and Courthouse projects.



Staff will work with the City to develop an interlocal agreement outlining the key coordination issues, including funding associated with the streetscape work within the right-of-way of Fayetteville Street. Key terms and conditions of this agreement will be presented to the Board for consideration within the next 60 days.

the forementioned drawings were dead links tho :(

The sidewalks are FREAKIN WIDE. I like the granite curbs and granite barriers surrounding the trees. The pavers also seem appropriate. Personally I disagree with the whole fayetteville street mall conversion but Id say im happy with the appearance of the project.My thoughts, exactly! As for the Courthouse Square drawings, here are a couple (will be followed by some construction updates on this project, later on):

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/CourthouseSquare/CourthouseSquare-RaleighNC-1m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/CourthouseSquare/CourthouseSquare-RaleighNC-2m.jpg

Wow the courthouse square looks like it will be a BIG improvement from before. They should wash the building like they did the old post office, it was night and day for that one.

I have an idea. Maybe the county officials could build a 25-story tower next to the County Jail and move ALL their operations there. Then, they can sell this ugly (in my opinion) mid-rise for redevelopment - prefereably to be replaced by a much taller structure. That ancient-looking facade is beyond redemption :lol:

Here are a couple of recent photos of this project. Nothing much to see right now, but I surely hope it will look great once the street is open again:

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/CourthouseSquare/DSC_0264m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/CourthouseSquare/DSC_0656m.jpg

Today I ventured around Glenwood South and took lots of photos of the 222 Glenwood site as well as Quorum Center. I was planning to cover some additional territory, as Site 1, convention hotel, convention center, Carlton Place and Palladium Plaza provide for some updates worthy of a few photos, but I had no time left. As soon as I process those photos, rest assured that I will add them here, but for now I wish to give you a small update on 222 Glenwood. I visited the sales office, located across from 222 Glenwood, to the North-West corner of the intersection and I gathered some useful information:
Final height is 7 floors :(
Total number of units: 117.
Unit size: from upper 600sf to ~1450sf.
Unit prices: from mid/upper $100,000's to ~$450,000.
Amenities: Wi-Fi Internet access, retail and restaurant(s) on the ground level, parking deck, swimming pool (much like The Paramount), private access, double walls, and the biggest plus: location!!!
Demand: VERY high. 67 buyers have been committed to and the company is now using the lottery method to select those who will be able to buy the rest of the units.
Naturally, I asked if the developer is considering an increase by 1-2 extra floors, since there is so much demand, but she could not answer positively. If the demand is truly as high as the lady in the office said, then it's safe to assume that people in Raleigh are ready for some real urban living. I am a bit disappointed about the size of 222 Glenwood because I feel that 1-2 additional floors could host some larger units (2000sf-3000sf), for those willing to pay the price. The good news is that this project has finally broken ground and that other nearby proposals may also have the opportunity to lure some of those buyers who will not be able to purchase a unit in this project. Stay tuned for photos ;)

As promised, I would like to share some fresh photos from the 222 Glenwood site, to be followed by Quorum Center. The great thing about this project is that the existing building wasn't hard to demolish.

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/222Glenwood/DSC_0815m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/222Glenwood/DSC_0816m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/222Glenwood/DSC_0819m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/222Glenwood/DSC_0821m.jpg

Just wanted to prove that my camera can focus :lol:
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/222Glenwood/DSC_0822m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/222Glenwood/DSC_0824m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/222Glenwood/DSC_0825m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/222Glenwood/DSC_0827m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/222Glenwood/DSC_0828m.jpg

Naturally, and within the next 2 years, this view will be blocked by 222 Glenwood:
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/222Glenwood/DSC_0835m.jpg

Nice photos, Raleigh-NC! I went to Glenwood just a week ago and they hadn't touched the Warren Distributing building yet. What a difference a week makes!

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/222Glenwood/DSC_0821m.jpg
This really bothers me. Glenwood, particularly the east side of Glenwood, is a very busy pedestrian corridor during the evenings, and the city just let them unceremoniously close the sidewalk?! The city should have made the developers construct a temporary sidewalk where the on-street parking is now. In Raleigh, we gladly risk drunk pedestrians' lives by forcing them to cross the street (which they will certainly do, in the middle of the block, without looking - they're drunk after all) but we wouldn't dare to sacrifice 10 on-street parking spaces.

Doesn't make sense to me at all.

If Glenwood filled in with 7 - 10 story buildings, the area would take on a cool vibe.

Great picks.

Thanks for sharing, Raleigh-NC.

Thanks for the update as always Ernest.

Thanks, y'all. I know this is pretty boring stuff right now, but the exciting part is that something is actually happening, and the demand is there, unlike what the pundits have us believe ;) I have to agree with orulz' statement. I would like to believe that the sidewalk closing is temporary, and that they will eventually reopen it once they clear the site. The building should be ready around the end of 2007 and the pedestrian traffic should be restored before then, but that is still too long to keep this section of the sidewalk closed. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

okay so I am going to come on board now. I found the website about a week ago. I was born in Cary NC ( I know it is a rarityto find someone who is native to Cary but my brother and I am.). My parents moved from NY in 1970, so I guess you can consider them one of the original Yankees to come to 'C.A.R.Y" Of course, Cary only had two stoplights back then and one or two grocery stores with a pop. of 5000-6000. Wow times have changed. So that is a little about me. Now I am grown, have a family and am living in Denver CO. Hope to move back to paradise next summer. I am out here for a job. I love the Triangle. I believe it is the best area to live in the country. I have lived in Sacramento, Seattle, Salt Lake City, and now Denver. So that it is an unbiased opinion, my wife has lived in all those places with me as well and agrees that the Triangle is the best place she has lived ever. So tell what the Quorum Center is. Is this the 20+ story building or something else? You guys are the grapevine for me concerning all the new development. My parents don't pay much attention to it, they just "live" there

Hey Ernest sorry I missed you yesterday, but again I got your message too late. Its funny just Monday night I noticed the demolition and thought of photographing it, but you beat me too it!

Gosh...I don't know about you guys .....Raleigh is really really changing for the better. The development is thrusting the city into a different light which is giving it its own identity.

okay so I am going to come on board now. I found the website about a week ago. I was born in Cary NC ( I know it is a rarityto find someone who is native to Cary but my brother and I am.). My parents moved from NY in 1970, so I guess you can consider them one of the original Yankees to come to 'C.A.R.Y" Of course, Cary only had two stoplights back then and one or two grocery stores with a pop. of 5000-6000. Wow times have changed. So that is a little about me. Now I am grown, have a family and am living in Denver CO. Hope to move back to paradise next summer. I am out here for a job. I love the Triangle. I believe it is the best area to live in the country. I have lived in Sacramento, Seattle, Salt Lake City, and now Denver. So that it is an unbiased opinion, my wife has lived in all those places with me as well and agrees that the Triangle is the best place she has lived ever. So tell what the Quorum Center is. Is this the 20+ story building or something else? You guys are the grapevine for me concerning all the new development. My parents don't pay much attention to it, they just "live" there

Welcome Cary NC. Your life sounds a lot like mine. I moved to raleigh in 71. moved to Modesto,Ca in 88.Phoenix in 2000 and finally to Richmond,Va in 2004. I travel to Denver every other week for business. I agree that the Triangle is the best place to live. My second choice would be around the Lake Tahoe area or around Placerville.I am a former weekend gold hunter

^^^
Cary NC- If you look above at the "Picture" post by Raleigh NC, you will see his pictures of the 17 floor Quorum Center.

@Cary_NC: Welcome to the forum :) Glad to read your post and see how much Triangle forumers have in common, especially our love for this area. I am not a native, but I have spent most of my life here - excluding my ~18 years overseas. Look for the Quorum Center photos below and you will recognize it; it is the 15-story building with the crane.

@Flash: It's ok... I was just hoping that you may want to take advantage of the beautiful day. Today, I am heading out for more photos, so let me know if you are interested ;)

@emjohnson2: You said it... Raleigh is beginning to get some identity, which was the problem for quite some time. One of the best features is that none of those projects immitates the others. In the future, even those who find The Dawson unattractive - personally, I like it - will change their minds; I know I dislike The Hudson less now... DT Raleigh is adding diversity to its urban fabric. I was getting a bit disappointed with the fact that several buildings follow the same coloring patterns (i.e. Two Progress Plaza, Center for the Performing Arts, Two Hannover Square), so I am glad to see variety for a change. I am pretty certain that Reynolds Tower 1 will help Raleigh escape the monotonous colors, too ;)

Now here are the promised Quorum Center photos from yesterday (April 4, 2006). Again, this is boring stuff, but the progress should make everyone happy.

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/QuorumCenter/DSC_0817m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/QuorumCenter/DSC_0839m.jpg

If you look carefully, you may see how the floor count goes from 12 to 14. Well, the first two floors are labelled 1A and 1B.
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/QuorumCenter/DSC_0842m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/QuorumCenter/DSC_0845m.jpg

Yeah, I see you, too.
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/QuorumCenter/DSC_0847m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/QuorumCenter/DSC_0848m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/QuorumCenter/DSC_0852m.jpg

http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/QuorumCenter/DSC_0854m.jpg

I like these windows!
http://www.raleighmsa.com/images/projects/DowntownRaleigh/QuorumCenter/DSC_0856m.jpg

I would like to believe that the sidewalk closing is temporary, and that they will eventually reopen it once they clear the site.I would like to believe the same thing, but given the city's track record (Palladium? Dawson? Quorum?) they won't. My guess is that Raleigh has no rules requiring that the pedestrian right-of-way be preserved during construction. Head to Charlotte, or just about any other city, and every DT construction project will have a (covered!) temporary sidewalk.

So the Quorem is going to be all brick? Looks like it came right off the NC State campus.

^^
Considering you are an NCSU graduate, I'll take it as a positive thing :lol: Seriously, though, Quorum Center has a lot of glass to offset the amount of brick. This presented a challenge, based on what David [Reynolds] told me. It takes a lot of effort to insulate these units from extreme temperature conditions, even for the standards of Raleigh.

orulz, you are correct... I have not seen anything that includes temporary cover for the pedestrians in Raleigh :( This is a speculation, but I would think that closing the sidewalk may contribute in delivering a project really fast. All of the projects we've seen so far have been built at a fast pace and with minimal interruption. The Dawson was an exception because of financial obstacles, but it moved fast. My guess is that Sites 1, 2, 3, 4 and the convention hotel will be treated the same way - no options for the early stages because they have to work on the underground parking deck. However, I do not foresee RBC Centura/Highwoods Tower to follow the same pattern. The pedestrian traffic in that area dictates a covered sidewalk, even if it happens later during the project. We'll see.

So the Quorem is going to be all brick? Looks like it came right off the NC State campus.

Yes but it has way more character than B of A

I was thinking that this would be a so-so looking building with all the brick, but some of Raleigh-NC's pictures capture the finished look with the smoked glass and it looks nice to me. Just wish it was @ 15 floors higher

We should hold a raffle for the closest guess to how many bricks are being used. I'm guessing @ 175K

Well all brick is better than all EFIS is my book.

^^
Better? Yes. Always appealing? I don't think so... Eastwestrob brought up a very good example (BofA, aka One Hannover Square) and I will bring you one more: Sheraton Hotel... These two buildings make me want to throw up, and I am glad they do not stand out as much. A well designed brick building, however, is an excellent structure, I must agree. To the credit of the designer, Quorum Center looks pretty nice in brick, and the glass matches the structure well.

eastwestrob, I would not dare guess how many bricks were used fo Quorum Center. I know you would beat me in this contest... easily ;)

This is good for Raleigh though. If we had the same type of architecture, we would be the same dead place as we were before our population boom. the good thing about large cities is that they have different buildings that display the dynamics of the city, while maintaining the urban beauty of the city. If we allow different materials and different designs then our city is headed in the right direction. The fighting for decent sized, made, and designed buildings shows we as a city are thirsty for change in a positive way. the one thing we all can say is that we believe our city is one of the best to live in and it should look that way. Not everyone is going to like the same building, but the buildings will always be different.

So what do you Raleighers (or Raleighites, not sure what the correct term is :)) think about city council rejecting the chandeliers on Fayetteville Street?

@Rufus: Well said!!!

@krazeeboi: Personally, I did not care about the chandeliers on Fayetteville Str. In a way, I am glad the City Council rejected them. Fayetteville Street doesn't, IMHO, need this type of colors... it's not Disneyland. They would add an element that I am not sure would look attractive. To be frank, they don't fit anywhere in downtown. Since I am more of a classisist, I "resist" very colorful/multi-colored designs; coastal colors is the most I can "tolerate", and not for downtown's main street. Don't get me wrong, if they were installed I would have given them a chance to grow on me, but I wasn't much in support - did not react much, either. Maybe they would look o.k. in the City Market area, or even the Warehouse District, but the CBD isn't the right place for those chandeliers. On a positive tone, I appreciate the fact that some people are interested in making Fayetteville Street a pleasant and attractive place, even if I disagree with the designs.

Since the chandeliers were brought to this discussion, can anyone post photos of similar projects, elsewhere? I want to see how chandeliers can alter the street-level experience. I do not have anything particular in mind, so post whatever you want.

After reviewing some renderings, I thought the lights were kind of cheesy myself. Of course you want to draw attention to your Main Street, but I don't think that's the way to do it; the chandeliers would have seemed to give off a "Hey, look at me, I'm a special street!" type of vibe. I, too, lean towards classic elements, but some modernism doesn't hurt, as long as it's done tastefully.

I'm not aware of any other cities having chandeliers downtown, not any that I can think of anyway.

^^
Better? Yes. Always appealing? I don't think so... Eastwestrob brought up a very good example (BofA, aka One Hannover Square) and I will bring you one more: Sheraton Hotel... These two buildings make me want to throw up, and I am glad they do not stand out as much. A well designed brick building, however, is an excellent structure, I must agree. To the credit of the designer, Quorum Center looks pretty nice in brick, and the glass matches the structure well.



Aww, I think 1 Hanover square, and the sheraton look pretty nice actually. They lack any individuality though so they go un-noticed, due to their size i wouldnt condside them monstrosities by any means. I dont mind the dark brick but i cant stand the red/orangeish brick as featured on the holiday inn on glenwood/beltline.

IMO Two Hanover Square and Wachovia are top notch(for their size).

^^
Once more towers appear around the buildings I mentioned, the latter will not be viewed the same way. I find most "boxes" very unappealing, no matter what they are made of. One golden exception, IMHO, is One Progress Plaza; it's my favorite and I wish it was twice as tall.

@krazeeboi: The biggest issue is that chandeliers look different in reality than they look on the paper. Sadly, the renderings make the chandeliers look flashier than they would in real life :( I am not exactly closed-minded when it comes to modern art, assuming the latter fits well in the environment for which it is proposed. For instance, I like Plensa's proposal, and the site may be good, but I have a big problem with ruining the traffic patterns on Fayetteville Street for such a piece of art. If the city wants to put it right in the middle of our soon-to-become-again-main-street, then I would propose another location. In fact, it would probably look nicer between Sites 2, 3. Ask for a development similar to Kio Torres I and II (Madrid, Spain) on these lots and then place Plensa's creation right in between. Anyone interested in this, look at the following images and try to visualize it:

http://www.xtec.es/~jcanadil/imatges/geometria/actius/torres_kio_1.jpg

http://www.conelarte.com/Sandra_Gutierrez/Sandra_Gutierrez0505.jpg