http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429103/0/Athens+-+From+Pendeli+-+5+-+May+2005-+small800x.jpg


Introduction: Read while pictures load (:yes: You guessed it– this is the mother of all threads!!! :D :yes: )

Three years after my first HUGE thread on Athens skyscrapers titled "Athens Skyscrapers and Modern Architecture", and after a whole new generation of Greek forumers have joined this forum, I believe the time has come for an update and a detailed account about the peculiar situation pertaining to the existence of tall buildings in Athens (and Greece), the misunderstandings, as well the chances of the particular issue to be raised in the near future. All that from the only Greek editor in http://www.skyscrapers.com, now also known as http://www.emporis.com, the leading authority in skyscrapers and building information worldwide.

So here it is, as promised in the Greek forum, a thread which not only presents pictures of Athenian tall buildings (well, nothing special but they are still standing), but also includes in my view valuable information of not only the existing ones, but also FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER the never-beens, the could have- beens – and one was demolished, including a full bunch of exclusive images capturing the full sequence of the actual 17-storey building tumbling down and falling to pieces after a series of controlled explosions. Also, the images portfolio of this thread includes excusive pictures of blueprints and models of planned "real" skyscrapers and 20-30+storey-tall towers some 30-35 years ago, projects that for whatever reason have never been realised and were buried under a negativist propaganda which turned skyscrapers into hate symbols and imminent apocalyptic evils as if the Greek construction firms -if permitted- would rush to build 300m-tall towers next to the Acropolis. And all that presented FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THE WEB EVER since nobody else to date cared or even dared to bring this discussion into full light.

Preparing this information in presentable form was a huge task that involved the scanning and editing of many pictures captured from various sources that I had stored in my archives, including video recordings from TV news reports. In addition, all the pictures presented here, especially the old ones that you might have seen in skyscrapers.com of other previous threads, have been re-mastered and reedited specifically for this thread. In some cases where for a number of treasons it was not possible to collect new material, I re-mastered the original source files including pics from Kodak picture disks, etc, so, whatever material you will see is practically new in terms of source origin in order for the pics to comply with the latest standards in terms of picture quality. Also, given the fact that the vast majority of the viewers will use a 1024x728 screen resolution I resized the pics to a maximum of 800x pixels horizontal dimension. Additionally, all of them have been compressed to downloadable sizes in order to facilitate low bandwidth users although my I reckon that you will have to fight red "x" with many manual attempts, especially if you have anything below 64K ISDN (like me:D). However, be aware that all the pictures presented here have been checked for downloadability and the links work fine. In case you see a red cross, you can right-click your mouse on it and then left-click on the choice"show picture". It will work and believe me, it is worth the way.

Also, expect many edits in the next couple of days after initial posting to check any potential glitches. Finally, most of these pictures will be uploaded to emporis.com in the largest possible file size and resolution to replace older ones.

Now, to facilitate your reading for those interested, you can copy and paste this text and pics immediately after download into an MS Word document for future reference if you so wish. It's practical and you can do it if you want to disseminate the information here to other interested parties.

Finally, I would like to kindly ask participants to keep their replies civil, as it took me ages (well… weeks) to prepare all this, and this is a skyscrapers and constructions forum first and foremost. I know that Athens doesn't have any real skyscrapers, so any comparison between cities with the aim to humiliate or edify Athens to unreal limits may be pointless here. As you will see, the choice about not to build skyscrapers was from a point in time, a political decision, NOT related by any means with the capacity of the technical construction firms of this country which have successfully undergone the test of the Olympic Games, given the fact that Greece is the smallest country to have organised them in the history of the modern games ever.

With all that, I let you enjoy (hopefully) what follows and especially for the young Greeks that started recently flooding this forum to get a different perspective about the built environment that they live in.

ALL OUT FOR A TALL ATHENS

Gregory Maloucos,
Editor for Athens and Greece,
http://www.emporis.com, http://www.skyscrapers.com


2. The Blasphemy that Never Was: Setting the Stage

What most people know about Athens can be summarised in pictures that look like this, where the all-times classic 150 –tall rock of the Athens Acropolis (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=124168) is in the centre of a sea of lowrise concrete blocks between 3 to 10- storey buildings:

-The Acropolis seen from Lycabettus Hill (height: 270m) looking south:
http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429104/0/Athens+Acropolis+From+Lucabetus+-+small800x.jpg

…some postcards from the same spot may also offer a wider angle which looks like this:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429105/0/Athens+skyline+with+Acropolis+From+Lucabetus+-+small800x.jpg

The truth is that when many-many years ago the possibility of tall buildings in Athens met the reservations of those believing that tall buildings would spoil the view of the existing Athenian hills. We can see a distant view of three of them including the Lycabettus hill, the Acropolis and the Philopappos hill, taken from one of the best observation spots not much known, the Prifitis Ilias in Piraeus (with a very large zoom: That's one of the reasons that I like my camera :) ).

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429106/0/Athens+Skyline+from+Profitis+Ilias+1-small800x.jpg

But… let's have a closer look at this picture. Now, if I proceed in magnifying a bit more what do I see? Just look at the following couple of pictures for the ultimate blasphemy, the ultimate nightmare of the city's planners to date as well as the architectural community can be seen here thanks to the long distance and the tricky games of the lenses: Antiquities and highrises side by side!!!!:eek: Exclusively for you brought by the official highrise freak of this country :D:D:D.

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429107/0/Athens+Skyline+from+Profitis+Ilias+1-blasphemous+detail-small800

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429108/0/Athens+Skyline+from+Profitis+Ilias+2-detail+and+small800x.jpg

Also, remember the views of the Acropolis from Lycabettus hill shown above? These are pretty famous all over the world. However, if the same photographers made an attempt to take a picture to the north instead of the south of the hill, that's the picture that they would take:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429109/0/Athens+-+View+From+Lycabettus+-+May+2005-small800xb.jpg

Quite different from what we are used to see in Athens isn't it?

Also, here is the view one may see from a particular spot on the mountain of Penteli, clearly indicating that NOT all of Athens is THAT flat. This is one of the views of this city that I like most, since I first saw it some 30years ago, while my father took the family to eat in one of the many taverns still existing in Penteli. It was because of this view and some others that the idea of tall buildings was stuck in my mind.

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429118/0/Athens+-+From+Pendeli+-+6+-May+05-small800x.jpg

But what happened to these buildings that are clearly above the stereotypical 8-storey limit, which formally or unofficially seems to have been imposed on this city? Who built them? Why are there never mentioned or depicted in city guides? When where they built? Will there be any new tall buildings in Athens in their future?

These are the questions we will try to answer with this thread. But let's go through some history first…


2. Historical Perspective

Following a heroic yet futile struggle against the axis forces which was succeeded by a prolonged period of occupation (1941-1944) and a bloody civil war, Greece found itself in real pain at the end of the 1940's. Athough Athens was not bombed by the Nazi and the fascists, leaving most of the city in tact because of itsantiquities, the civil war that followed immediately after liberation between the national pro-western government and army on the one side and the pro-communist rebels (1944-1949) on the other, Athens was left with many scars, both externally as well as internally, in what one might call "the collective unconscious" of its citizens. At that time, (1949-50) Athens was the capital of a country with a large number of war casualties (over than 500,000) and a destroyed infrastructure. The city itself had a population of slightly above one million and many parts of it were in ruins albeit not as much as other European cities which have been carpet-bombed or otherwise completely devastated during the war. Still in parts, the situation was quite reminiscent of the tragic events that took place at that time.

During the early reconstruction period, the only real concern for the city planners was to accommodate the thousands of immigrants fleeing from the countryside into Athens trying to escape the misery that was awaiting them in the barren war-torn countryside. I will not go into detail, but I will make a passing reference to a number of master plans that were considered from 1945 to 1949 when a significant figure, Konstantine Doxiadis the then minister of public works, among others, using the generous funds of the so-called "Marshall Plan" originated by the US as part of their aid to post-war Europe in his effort to put an order to the chaos and to accommodate the thousands of incoming refugees from the rural areas, an effort with significant but alas, still quite limited results.

At that time, the size and sheer volume of building constructions was not that large partly because of the reason that indeed, there didn't seem to be such a need yet. Indicatively, my parents were telling me about the "Giannaros Skyscraper" (Ο ουρανοξύστης του "Γιάνναρου" ) referring to the 7-storey building on the corner of Syntagma Square (I think it's Othonos Street) and Philellinon Street in central Athens as an example of tallness in these early years.

However, even as early as the beginning of the 1950's, the government planners have started to consider the allowance for bigger structures as they observed that (quite reasonably) the city had already started to grow exponentially, developing needs that could not be satisfied by the medium and functionally inadequate size of the existing buildings at that time, be it governmental, residential or even commercial.


3. The early years, 1950-1966

It was in the context of the above spirit that in 1954, the law 3213/54 governing the affairs of tourism was put into effect. This law included a provision about the allowance for construction of hotels "over and above the allowed construction height limits per sector" (καθ' υπέρβασιν του ισχύοντος ανά τομέα ανωτάτου ύψους οικοδομήσεως ) in tourist regions, in accordance to the need for big tourist hotel units that were then seen as one of the "locomotives of development", as Greece began to gain importance as a tourist destination at that time.

Among other buildings which were taller in comparison to their neighouring ones, (make it say, 5 or 7 floors instead of their three-storey neighbours :D) there was a particular one which signified the beginning of the era of tall buildings in Athens. That was the Athens Hilton Hotel (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=110575), completed in 1963 (coincidentally, that was my birth year too !!! Ahhh the winds of karma are blowing in mysterious ways!!!). With a height of 65 metres distributed on 14 levels out of which 10 were allotted for guest rooms, 2 were used for the public spaces i.e. conferences and ballrooms (with the "Terpsichori" conference and ball room being the biggest at the time) and 2 being used as top lobby (where the famous top-notch "Galaxy Bar" on the 14th floor is still located offering an unbelievable view of Athens) and service floors, this hotel was the first highrise ever built in Athens. Still, it never gained the title for the first skyscraper of the city, as its horizontal dimension was much longer than its vertical one. On the other hand, its construction in relative proximity to the Acropolis and especially the Lycabettus Hill, created a lot of controversy at the time, given the apparent modernism in its design. True, the hotel is a landmark and at the time of completion symbolised the birth of modern Athens.

-The Athens Hilton immediately after its renovation (2003)

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35743/429222/0/Athens+Hilton+-+2-+small800x.jpg

Since many years though and especially today, after its total renovation (2003) for the Olympics, the hotel and its neighbourhood (The so-known "Hilton area" – περιοχή Χίλτον" ) is considered one of the best in central Athens.

-View of the high class area surrounding the Hilton Hotel, as seen from the top lobby (12th floor) of the Divani Caravel hotel, also depicting the Lycabettus hill and illustrating the reasons for the early controversy about the construction of this hotel.

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35743/429220/0/Athens+-+From+Caravel+Hotel++-+Lycabettus+and+Hilton-small+800x

The next significant event was the announcement of construction of a new hospital for the Red Cross (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=168185), sometime during the early 1960's. The funny thing is that the building's frame topped out probably shortly after the Athens Hilton was completed or one or two years later (I need to check). We are talking about an 18-storey tall concrete frame clearly dominating the district of Ampelokipi where it blended quite well with the other 3-4 highrises that were (coincidentally? ) built later in the specific area. However, construction did not go on after the frame topped-out. To date, the rumour has it that the engineer of the building committed suicide after he found out that the building was statically defective, probably because of engineering mistakes (No PC's and/ or experience of building such big projects at the time). The ghost frame of the structure remained until 1995 when it was demolished in order for a lowrise complex to be built in its place. But more on this later…

Also, a very significant development at the time was the completion of the Greek Telecom building (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=167139) in 3rd September (Tritis Septemvriou) street. The building, although being only 12 stories tall, made a difference compared to the 5-6 storey neighbouring concrete blocks next to it, and its glass façade contributed to the overall impression. It must have been completed some time in 1966 or early 1967. Interestingly enough, it accommodated the first miniature Greek TV studios in the late 1960's, although it has to be 66 since to my understanding, the first trial broadcasts of Greek TV took place there.

All the above suggested that something was "on the move" in the mid-1960's, although obviously, the lack of prior experience and adequate resources at that time might have hampered the construction of taller buildings. However, I urge your attention to the fact that back in these days with the exception of Paris, Milan and possibly London, few cities in Europe (in fact, very few… ) could present something solid above 100m, with the exception of their cathedrals. In any case, the triggering of a real wave of highrise constructions in Athens (and a handful of other locations in Greece too) was associated with one of the most unfortunate events in modern Greek history, and it was probably because of this connection in the minds of some key decision makers (as well as many misinformed citizens too), decades ago, that although Greece appeared to be one of the most serious candidates for mass highrise construction in the southeastern Europe, the vertical development of this city (and potentially some others in Greece) witnessed an abrupt interruption and entered a downward spiral where recovery still seems to be a rather remote hypothetical construct.


4. The Military Dictatorship (1967-1974) and Highrise Construction Boom (1974-1981) :
Reaching new heights in the wrong place and at the wrong time…

On 21 April 1967 a coup d' état took place in Greece, led by a group of Greek army colonels. Despite that it was not as bloody as others in Europe and elsewhere, the military junta never gained the real support of the people and it eventually collapsed in a dramatic manner in 1974. Notably, in a fashion typical in all dictatorships, the new rulers showed a keen interest in inducing an element of (sometimes ill-conceived) grandiosity in whatever plans they had about development in this country. A typical example of this megalomania was for instance the new Athens airport for which they wanted to either flatten the whole of the Makronissos Island close to the east coast of Attica (the prefecture where Athens, Piraeus and the Suburbs belong) and connect it with a bridge (and please don't laugh: Hong Kong did this in 1997 :D) off the area of Lavrion with the mainland, or to build a mega airport, three times the size of the existing one (that is, as large as the one in Dallas - Fort Worth, Texas :lol: ) with four parallel runways :eek: in either the area of Tanagra, or in Pachi- Megara (West Attica) or in Spata (to the east, which is the location of the existing more reasonably sized new airport of Athens). Also, remind me to show you the plans for a multi-story airport (!!!!! :eek: ) for Short-Take-Off and Landing (STOL) Planes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It seemed that, this notion of excess was also present in the minds of the dictators with regards to buildings, especially the ones to accommodate government and public services, as these would epitomise the supremacy of the Greek construction sector and indirectly, point the dynamism of the new state of affairs in Greece. In addition, it is said that many of the then big contractors were looking for an increase in the so-called "building and construction coefficients" that is, the percentage of the total over-ground floor area of a building over the area of the estate built. (In Greek: Συντελεστής δόμησης ο οποίος στην ουσία είναι ένα κλάσμα του οπoίου ο αριθμητής είναι η συνολική επιφάνεια των ορόφων του προς ανέγερση κτίσματος και παρονομαστής είναι η επιφάνεια του οικοπέδου ).

At that time it seemed that the pressures and the expectations were high and changes were imminent, as the building construction sector in Greece displayed a tremendous dynamism, making Greek and foreign observers to euphemistically talk about a "construction orgasm" (οικοδομικό οργασμό ) :lol:. And changes did eventually happen with the most dramatic being the partial abolishment of the height restrictions in certain areas. The measure was officially decreed as a provision of the new "development law" (αναπτυξιακός νόμος ) Α.Ν. 395/68 "on the heights of buildings and free construction" (in Greek: "Περί του ύψους των οικοδομών και της ελευθέρας δομήσεως" ), although the closest term notionally is: "on unrestricted construction". The law simply stated that a contractor might be allowed to build "over and above" the existing height limit restrictions in the area provided that the building would be free and not connected to any other building on all sides of the estate's perimeter.

It seemed that there were already many plans waiting on the drawing table with regards to the why's and how's such a law was imposed so hastily in the first place, just a year after the seizing of power by the dictators. This probably explains why the surprised Athenians one historic (for me :D) morning in 1968 saw the bulldozers taking over the large piece of property on 2, Messogeion street. The construction site would probably go unnoticed –after all, since, as mentioned above, from the late 1950's everybody was talking about the new wave of construction that has stormed the city and was changing it –slowly but surely- into this sea of concrete white roofs that became its trademark from the 1960's onwards. But not this time, something bigger was in the making, for in this case one could see the proud announcement on the signs reading:

"ΑΝΕΓΕΡΣΙΣ ΟΥΡΑΝΟΞΥΣΤΟΥ"
"ΠΥΡΓΟΣ ΑΘΗΝΩΝ"
"ΑΝΑΔΟΧΟΣ ΕΡΓΟΥ: ΑΛΒΕΡΤΗΣ ΚΑΙ ΔΗΜΟΠΟΥΛΟΣ ΑΕ"

"SKYSCRAPER CONSTRUCTION"
"ATHENS TOWER"
"GENERAL CONTACTOR: ALVERTIS AND DIMOPOULOS SA"

Actually, Alvertis and Dimopoulos were already known for their completed projects, including the American Embassy in Athens, the Evgenidion Institution and Planetarium in Syggrou Avenue, and other high quality lowrise office buildings. They also had a number of projects completed in the Middle East, some of them being highrises too.

As time went by, the frame of the building started to rise above its 6-storey neighbours that seemed to be gradually dwarfed by the sheer size of the giant next to them.

-Picture of the Athens Tower (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/cx/?id=101292) at the time of construction. Watch the sign for the new branch of Commercial Credit bank, now called "Alpha Credit Bank".

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35743/429299/0/Athens+Tower+under+construction+-+small+800x.jpg
Source: "Αρχιτεκτονικά Θέματα" (Architecture in Greece, Vol. 6/72 )

In 1971 after three years of construction and many heartbeat palpitations of A&D's engineers (after all, the building was the first of its kind and the tallest in the Balkans-quite a pioneering construction at the time) the full 103 metre-tall edifice was ready to admit its first tenants. The building's architecture was representative of the "international style" and much reminiscent of the Seagram Building (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=115572) in New York. The architects were two: Ioannis Vikelas and Ioannis Kymbritis, of which, Vikelas was bound to become famous and successful later employed solely by Babis Vovos, the most successful of the new generation of building contractors that emerged after 1980.

Picture of Athens Tower (103m, 1971) Athens' tallest building to date, as seen from Vasilissis Sophias Avenue:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/29410/389194/0/Athens+Tower+Complex+4Compact+2.jpg

Also, not forgetting that Athens belongs to medium to high intensity earthquake zone, the building employed the latest technology of the time (and has gone through major quakes in 1981 and 1999 without breaking a sweat, eh… a glass, sorry :lol:, although as you can see its exterior surfaces are covered in glass ).

Thanks to its design, the building itself, looks some 20-30m taller than it actually is. Even now, the impact it creates to somebody looking up from its base to the top cannot be created by any other "human scale" lowrise office development in this city. Its design, despite being boxy, still passes successfully the test of time; You can only partly understand the feeling of the above by looking at the following picture:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/29410/388578/0/Athens+Tower++-+View+from+the+base+2-small.jpg

Very few things have been written about the significance of this building, which has become the hate symbol of a whole new generation of skyscraper haters in Greece that turned up in the early 1980's, with their negativism spread evenly between the government, as well as the ranks of professionals, architects and city planners alike. In any case, the building's boxy shape made sure that the skyline of the district of Ampelokipi, some 5 km from the Acropolis and 1.5 km from the Lycabettus hill to the north-east of the municipality of Athens, would never be the same again.

-View of the building also depicting part of the skyline in Ampelokipi, Athens, as seen from Hymettus mountain.


http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/29410/354984/0/Athens+-+From+Hymettus.jpg


For some additional pictures of the building click here (http://www.emporis.com/en/il/pc/?id=110579&aid=8&sro=1)

Aerial view of the densely built Ampelokipi district depicting the Athens tower in the middle. The observant eye may catch the green coloured football stadium of Panathinaikos FC towards the upper middle part of the picture.

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429123/0/Athens+Aerial+1+-+Ampelokipi+-+small800x.jpg
(C) The Air Club of Serres (http://www.serresairclub.gr/)

The overwhelming presence of this building was immediately felt and recorded in the press at the time (early 70's). I remember the "Tachydromos" magazine having a story about it some time in 1974, talking about some small houses that were still a few blocks away from it, the last remains of another epoch that even back then, was quickly fading away… . Other papers were talking about a fear of "manhattanization" of Athens, while, when in 1975 the movie "Earthquake" starring Charlton Heston and Ava Gardner reached the Athenian cinemas, this building was part of many "what if" scenarios appearing in newspaper movie reviews. Also, the fire department of the city of Athens talked about their incapacity back then to reach above the 8th floor of a building and the stories continued when another disaster movie, "The Towering Inferno", starring Paul ******, also hit the Athenian movie theatres in 1976.

In reality, when in 1981 and 1999 Athens was hit respectively by two serious quakes measuring some 6+ on the Richter scale each, nothing was heard of the building in contrast to many lowrises, which on both occasions, either collapsed or were severely damaged because of the shakes. Probably the haters of the building would like it to collapse so as not to obstruct the "human scale" of its gray-walled lowrise neighbours. To their disappointment, the building stood and still stands unscratched :D.

-View of the building from the park at the crossroads of Alexandras – Vasilissis sophias Avenue.

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35743/429225/0/Athens+Tower+9+-+small800x.jpg

It was because of that building that, at the beginning of the 1970's as a child I actually started developing an interest about skyscrapers, and what a fascination it was when I would discover a new one piercing the skies of its immediate vicinity in Athens. You see, I doubt that the Greeks here (or at least the younger forumers) have felt the fascination that I was feeling back in those days where I could see that gradually the Athens greater area but especially the district of Ampelokipi was seeing this type of development when, immediately after the completion of the Athens Tower, a handful of other ones, inferior both in height as well as designs were gradually completed in the area until 1978, and every time I would discover a new one of them I would cheer and have my own private party since, back at the time, there was no Internet and I was the only one -as it seems – to be taking notice of what was happening.

That's why I can understand the rest of the Turkish, Polish, British, Austrian, Latvian, Eastern Europeans, Western Europeans and all else that they see their cities transformed and lifted to a higher level.

Anyway, at the time the military Junda fell in 1974, the "construction orgasm" was still present, albeit reduced in intensity compared to the early 1960's frenzy. With regards to skyscrapers, it seemed that Athens was ready to go on to the next phase with a number of buildings already completed (Athens Tower, Apollo Tower), a large number of others on the verge of topping out or at various stages of construction (Aghia Varvara Chalandriou Residence complex, Ministry of Public Order, President Hotel, Greek Telecom (OTE) Head offices in Kifissias Avenue etc.).

These are some skyline views of the area of Ampelikipi, in my view the only "real skyline of Athens. The names of the four tallest buildings from left to right and the years of completion are given below:

Apollo Tower (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=110578) (1973), Athens Expo Center (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=148979) (1979), President Hotel (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=110582) (1978) and of course, Athens Tower 1 (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=110579).

Views from the Hilton Hotel Top Lobby, "Galaxy Bar", 14th level (floor)

-Narrow angle view focusing on the four tallest buildings:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429120/0/Athens+-+Highrise+Skyline+View+from+Hilton+2+-Focus-+small+800x

-View depicting Vasilissis Sophias Avenue where the Athens Megaron Concert Hall is also visible:
As this is the best possible highrise skyline shot in Athens, I have provided you already with a bigger version of this picture here (http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/29410/418890/0/Athens+-+Highrise+Skyline+View+from+Hilton+1.jpg).

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429119/0/Athens+-+Highrise+Skyline+View+from+Hilton+1-small800x.jpg

-Narrow angle view from Caravel Hotel

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429122/0/Athens+Skyline+from+Caravel+2005-+2-small+800x.JPG

-Broad angle view from the top lobby (12th floor) Caravel Hotel:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429121/0/Athens+Skyline+from+Caravel+2005+-1-small+800x.JPG
Apart from the central districts such as Ampelokipi, the highrises had already started to move towards the periphery of the city. Look for instance at this view from the Hilton Hotel depicting the Ministry of Public Order (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=148980) (1978) and a couple of residential towers in Cholargos, some 800m from my place. All built before 1978.

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429134/0/Athens+-+From+Hilton-Towards+Ministry+of+Public+Order+small800x

Also, here is a view of the tallest residential in Greece with 24 floors, the Apollo Tower:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35743/429221/0/Apollo+Tower+6-small800x.jpg

Also, in Piraeus, a 25-storey tower, namely the Piraeus Trade Center (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=130986) had its frame completed in 1976 still remains on hold although it had its façade clad with glass in 1986 but never opened for business. In 2002, there was some publicity about J&P Avax to have bought it for completion and commercial use but nothing was heard ever since.

-Piraeus Tower as it is today (I took this pic in 2002)

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35743/429252/0/Piraeus+Tower+-+small800x.jpg


-Piraeus skyline as seen from the Profitis Ilias Hill (2002). It remained the same for over 20 years.

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429217/0/Piraeus+-+Skyline+-small800x.jpg

From what we see it is understandable that the future seemed bright and sunny especially since there were so many projects underway or completed. I was in my high school years then and among my other interests, I was frequently going to the rooftop terrace of my house and looked towards the direction of the Athens Tower and the Apollo Tower and things looked promising. After all you see, Papagos, the green, low-density and low-rise suburb that I live, is close to the district of Ampelokipi where the tallest of the towers are located. Consequently these highrises are visible from many spots in the area, especially from the house terraces. One of these views is depicted in the following picture, taken from the fourth floor of a new block of flats close to my house. Observe the roof gardens in the terraces in some houses and the towers in the background, perhaps the only picture you'll ever see from Athens combining suburbia with the closest thing of a "downtown" skyline :), which also included the Acropolis (in the far left) and the Lycabettus hill (in the middle:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429132/0/Athens+Skyline+from+Papagos+1+-+small800x.JPG

Yes, one may say that I was lucky to have grown with the prospects of a taller Athens. But all this had to end and it ended violently. Until 1978, all major highrises regardless of their size and complexity had been built, all but one.

The Atrina Centre, was not completed until 1980. Built by the Babis Vovos SA (http://.www.babisvovos.com) company as phase II of the overall project called Atrina Centre also including another 8-storey building. It was built in a half-empty area on a rather quiet spot on the then 4-lane Kifissias Avenue (no resemblance with the ultra6-lane highway it is now), as Babis Vovos, the contractor had envisisaged even from the end of the 1970's that this part of Athens would be the new business centre of the expanding Greek capital. And he was right.

-The Atrina Centre from across Kifissias Avenue

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/29410/354986/0/Athens+-+Atrina+Center+Tower+7-small.jpg

This elegant 20-storey office tower symbolised the beginning of a new age where better and more aesthetically appealing towers would be built, this time probably grouped in zones allowing the construction of such buildings with proper regulations. All that to avoid some mistakes of the past, where, many of ones built during the 1970's, looked like vertical extensions of the already existing concrete blocks of flats. The way things looked back then, one might expect that the completion of the Atrina Centre would probably mark the beginning of construction of a new generation of glass towers that would be spread along the newly developing areas outside central Athens looking perhaps like small versions of "La Defence". Certain areas like Kifissias Avenue (click here (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=187184 ) to see how it looks today) to the north and Syggrou Avenue towards the Phaleron Delta in the coastal zone where the Atrina Centre and the brand new OTE HQ had already been built looked quite promising so as to undertake the role of the new highrise business centres of the future. Yes, Atrina Centre at that time was the face of the future. A future that alas, was never bound to come, although it was difficult for me or any other interested observer to know it back then. But, enough with the talk. Now I believe it's time to categorise and examine these buildings in groups to see what they were and how they looked (and look) like. Their typology can be described as follows:

a. The buildings for commercial use or government use:

These were built for primarily office or other commercial public use including public administration, hotels, health units, etc. They were normally located close to major arterial roads. Most of them have cement as their façade materials except for the Athens Tower the Atrina centre tower, the national Bank of Greece branch of Paliaon Psychikon and the Piraeus Trade centre, whose facades are clad with glass on all sides. Some examples of the these buildings can be seen below, all characteristic of the architectural styles dominant in the middle 1970's.

Besides the Athens tower of which we saw many pictures previously, there were a number of buildings completed for government use, like the Ministry of Public Order (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=148980) and the 401-421 military hospitals in Messogeion Avenue as seen in the following picture from the new bridge made by S. Calatrava as seen from the follwing pictures:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/30498/361587/0/Calatrava+Katehaki+11+-+View+East+-+401+MH+and+Neighbourhood.jpg

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/30498/361588/0/Calatrava+Katehaki+12+-+View+East+-+Ministry+of+PO.jpg

-Now, feast your eyes with this UNIQUE picture taken from a VERY high location in mount hymettus depicting Katehaki Avenue and the Ministry of Public order as well as military hospitals from some 900m above the ground:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429135/0/Athens+-+From+Hymettus+-+Katehaki+and+Hospitals-small800x.JPG

Also, of particular importance are the head offices of the Greek Telecom Ogranisation (OTE) (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=148981) which, along with the Atrina Centre were the only tall buildings completed in Maroussi before stricter laws were imposed.

-The Greek Telecom Head Offices building with the new suburban rail station in the middle of the junction of the Attica Road- Kifissias Avenue.

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/29410/401687/0/Athens+Kifissias+Roundabout++-+2005+-+2+-+Medium.jpg

Also, among others, one should not forget the Hygeia Hospital (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=163168) and the Athens Police Headquarters (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=148978), which are well known structures in Alexandras and Kifissias Avenues respectively.

The above mentioned few highrises were built with building permits taken from the years of the military junta and many were completed after the military fell from power. They are located –in their majority- in big avenues and almost all Athenians know them.

However, there is another bunch of highrises that are difficult to chart and/ or observed and are probably not known that much. They have not been built by prominent architects and since they are not accommodating any public functions or services, they are difficult to spot, especially when they do not stand out in prominent locations but are lost deeply into inner city neighbourhoods or the Athenian suburbia. Ladies and gentlemen, for the first time in the web and probably in any form, be it printed or electronic, I present you with:


b. The Lost Residentials.

The main paradox with Athens highrises is that many of them are not corporate glass towers built by big construction companies in order to show off or impose his capitalist ideal seen in ALL cities with a decent skyline. Actually, as mentioned above, in contrast to what one might expect, a large number of these high-rises are residentials located in the periphery of the city, away from main avenues or other arterial roads. Surprisingly, we are talking about a couple of dozens of these babies, maybe more. Most of them are between 10-17 or 18 storeys tall. Their contractors are not known and are not mentioned anywhere, after all, the Hellenic architectural community would like to see those buildings probably demolished, so don't expect any mention. It for this reason that I call them "lost", since most of them are literally "hidden" located, as mentioned above, deeply inside residential districts, away from the centre of the city or the places of tourist or business interest, as if their builders literally wanted to hide them from the public eye. So, the only way to spot them was from… above, and in the absence of a private helicopter :D, I resolved to the next best alternative, that is, climbing to the top of hills or to elevated locations. The following pictures are the product of such expeditions… Click on links to explore further:

-Residentials in Palaio Psychiko (http://www.emporis.com/en/il/im/?id=331327) seen from the mount Hymettus.

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429159/0/Athens+-+Residential+in+Neo+Psychico+Complex++from+Hymettus-smal

-Various residentials ( Chalandri tower (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=166351), Efterpi Tower (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=163990), Cholargos Ventouri Street Tower (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=167128) )seen from the neighbourhood of the Athens Olympic Complex (OAKA)

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/34966/419770/0/Faraway+Residentials+from+footbridge+near+OAKA.JPG

Efterpi Tower (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=163990) and Erato Tower (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=163997) in Cholargos (800m from my place) from Lycabettis Hill (VERY distant view but I like it)

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429136/0/Athens+-+From+Lycabettus++-+Cholargos+Highrises+-+Detail+small+8

-"Lost" Residential Tower in Nea Ionia (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=166371), somewhere in Athenian suburbia:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35743/429228/0/Athens+-+Nea+Ionia+Complex+-small800x.jpg

-Residential Twins in Aghios Nicolaos Acharnon (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/cx/?id=103698)

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35743/429251/0/Residential+Twins+-+Aghios+Nikolaos+Acharnon+-+2-From+Lycabettus

Actually the last picture is from a very densely populated area from inner city Athens, between the streets of Acharnon, Patission as well as Galatsiou Avenue. There are actually two pairs of twins in Athens. This is the first pair, and we will visit the second in a moment. In a 1km radius you may also find the Aghias Lavras Street Tower (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=168704), and the Tower in Kato Patissia (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=163867).

And, for those that may not know, even the lowrise and luxury suburb of Kifissia has its own highrise block, as seen from Kifissias Avenue:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35743/429229/0/Athens+-+Residential+Complex+Kifissia+1-small800x.jpg

The above building as well as the "Dhifros" Apartment Complex (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=148855) that we will examine below, were built by Alexandros Tombazis in the mid-70's when the architect was experimenting with the patterns adopted by the Japanese "School of Metabolists" of the late Tadao Ado, thus the polymorph design of the buildings.

Today, these buildings, look either like isolated islands lost in a sea of concrete (like the ones in Ahios Nikolaos Acharnon or Kato Patissia) or hidden in exotic streets in the suburbs (Chalandri, Cholargos, or even the high-class Kifissia!!!) perhaps giving us, according to some, an indication of how bad things might have turned in the law on "free construction" had not been abolished in 1978 and the already packed urban fabric of Athens had accommodated large numbers of these "vertical" protrusions" which, according to the views of many would have resulted in Athens looking like a small, version of Hong Kong or Sao Paulo.

According to others, when used with careful planning, residential highrises may help saving valuable space both in urban as well as suburban areas, especially when combined with greenery. Well, allow me to surprise you by saying that regardless of my passion about tall buildings, I really don't like them that much for residential use. I mean, I believe that the idea of a traditional lowrise neighbourhood like the one I was raised in is the best for raising kids and having a family. On the contrary, highrises are perfect for bachelors. I mean, what could be a better setting for luring in your love interest :naughty: and creating (for the boys here) a romantic atmosphere with the unbeatable view of the city some 20 (or 30… ) storeys above the ground.

In any case, regardless of the bad or good critiques that they may have received regarding their ugly or indifferent designs, these buildings still constitute a significant part of this city's highrise construction, they are inhabited by people who enjoy the view from there, are not afraid of the earthquakes and most of all, are the best representatives of another time when contactors were more daring regardless of the awkwardness that some of these earlier designs may have had back then…

c. The Athenian Tower Blocks (and Commieblocks!!!)

A special category of the above-mentioned residential buildings, probably constituting a sub-category of (b) are the highrises built in an organised fashion on a few of locations in the city in order to constitute tower blocks.

Specifically, during the years of the military junta, there have been a couple of attempts to provide organise housing both from the private sector as well as the government. Although (like most of this type of mass-produced buildings) they are not the best artefacts of architectural design, still, they exist, idle representatives of an era that came and went without leaving its permanent mark on anything.

-Tower Block in Messogeion Avenue. This block includes according to the author's humple opinion the only real twin towers in Greece, built some 4 years apart. It is located o Messogeion Avenue, on the borders of Cholargos and Neon Psychikon Suburbs. Here is a picture of the buildings of the block taken with a strong zoom lens from Lycabettus Hill, some 10km to the south of the complex.

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429175/0/Messogeion+Blocks1-+small+800x.JPG

Of particular interest are the 18 and 16-storey twin towers right on Messogeion Avenue (some 1.5 km from where I live :))

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35743/429259/0/Residential+twins-Tower+Block+Messogion+Av.+4-small2-800x.jpg

Another addition to the complex is also a 15-storey block built by the teachers association of Greece (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=164626) in 1974, next to the twins.


-The next complex is of some importance, primarily due to the existence of the "Dhifros" Apartment Complex (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=148855) which, as explained earlier, it constitutes an attempr to incorporate the teachings of the Japanese "School of Metabolists" into the Greek reality. This building, along with the rest of the buildings of this comples is in the area of Aghia varvara (Santa Barbara) in Paliaon Psychikon.

-Picture of the complex in Cholargos and Psychikon as seen from the mount Hymettus

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429137/0/Athens+-+Holargos+-+P+Psychico+3+-+Aug+-+2004+-+small800x.jpg


-Japanese metabolism and its impact in suburban Athens skyline as seen from the mount Hymettus

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/29410/354985/0/Athens+Aghia+Varvara+Psychikon+Complex+from+Hymettus+-+compact.j

-Organised mid-rise housing in Peristeri: The Athenian Commieblock!!!

This is a complex of mid- to low-rise residentials (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/cx/?id=109853) located around the church of Aghios Antonios (St Antony's) in Peristeri, above the metro station of "Aghios Antonios".

Interesting sample of mid-70's mass housing, probably built by the Workers' housing organisation but without any follow-up.

Pictures, depicting the church as well as the Ethnarchou makariou Avenue

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35743/429248/0/Peristeri+Blocks+and+Aghios+Anbtonios+Church-small800x.JPG

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35743/429250/0/Peristeri+Blocks+Overall+with+Ethn.+Makariou+Av.+-small-2-800x.J

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35743/429249/0/Peristeri+Blocks+-From+Across++Ethnarchou+Makariou-299761-small8

To sum up, as mentioned before, the completion of the Atrina Centre in 1980 might have constituted the beginning of a new era of tower construction where most of the obvious mistakes (including the above :D) would have been eliminated and-most important – the new edifices would serve as corporate head offices, bearing in them the latest in design and building technology, instead of becoming the characteristic of anonymous and mediocre buildings on remote locations where nobody would take any notice (and being an experienced building "spotter", I can tell you that with regards of some of these buildings, one needs to be very patient in locating them… )

…and, that was the time when builders were not afraid to call their creations "skyscrapers" as seen in the following advertisement of Pafilis constructions in the "Architecture in Greece" (Αρχιτεκτονικά θέματα ) review:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35748/429296/0/Skyscrapers+Advert+-+Pafilis+Constructions+small.jpg

So, there was the time for a change for the better…a change that never came…


4. The Middle Ages, 1975-2000


After the military junta collapsed in 1974, the first democratic elections were held giving a vast majority to the conservative party. One of the major concerns of the then government was to revisit the state of the existing building and construction laws. True, at that time, Greeks were fed up in their vast majority with the works of the previous regime and they started to tear down whatever they thought was reminiscent of the old days. And unfortunately, as it appears with the benefit of hindsight 30 or so years later, skyscrapers was one of them.

In addition, the new breed of teachers in architecture schools seemed to totally dislike anything big, equalling the idea of smallness with the one of "human" scales, whatever that meant. With the passing of time, an absurd propaganda associating big and tall buildings with the works of the hated junta or the works of the equally heted capitalism (as if in the Communist countries the biggest building they ever built was of the size of a cottage) started appearing in the specialised press, as well as in wide circulation papers. Even in conservative newspapers like "Vradyni" (Βραδυνή ) in 1977 you could see for instance a picture of the frame of Atrina Centre which was still under construction accompanied with the legend "A skyscraper under construction in the Northern Suburbs – Democracy has been incapable of stopping them" (To the Greeks: Ουρανοξύστης υπό κατασκευή στα βόρεια προάστια – η Δημοκρατία δεν μπόρεσε να σταματήσει την κατασκευή τους – Παιδιά – ΤΟ ΟΡΚΙΖΟΜΑΙ αυτό έγραφε, το θυμάμαι σαν χθες!!!! ).

To this day, or even back then that I was of such a young age, I never understood –- what democracy or absolutism had to do with the height of buildings. I don't think the originator of this stupid comment had either.

On the government side, in 1976 the then conservative government introduced the law 360/76 "on urban planning and environment" περί Χωροταξίας και Περιβάλλοντος ) which imposed very strict limits on the construction of buildings and practically limited the construction of tall buildings to the ones that had been given permits until the day the law came into effect. Also, in 1978 the new master plan (Ρυθμιστικό Σχέδιο ) for Athens became effective, primarily emphasizing the zoned use of the land but strictly punishing height violations.

On the side of the scientific world things were equally bad. In the official Greek architecture annual review called "Architecture in Greece" (Greek Title: "Αρχιτεκτονικά Θέματα", where a few years back you had dithyrambs about new constructions and reviews of proposed skyscrapers ( :yes: wait till you read about this :yes: ), all of a sudden, articles bashing the "vertical protrusions of the Attica landscape" (οι κατακόρυφες δεσπόζουσες του Αττικού τοπίου ) referring to a few 15-storey buildings in Kifissias Avenue (Aghia Varvara area) where the only thing they didn't ask was to demolish these buildings (see the article on the "Development of the Greek apartment blocks" "H εξέλιξη της Ελληνικής πολυκατοικίας", in "Αρχιτεκτονικά θέματα" (Architecture in Greece) Annual review Vol. 12/1978 (I hope this is the one since I don't have it unfortunately but I remember the year, thank God).

With the coming of the Socialist government into power in October 1981, things became even worse as far as the construction of tall buildings is concerned. The new dominant ideology further intensified the abominable nature of the tall buildings as capitalist icons, while angry hairy and bearded commissars appeared in the media talking about "human scale" of constructions, and all public works were suspended "for revision" until further notice. For your information, the Athens Metro had begun preliminary construction works back then but was stopped and so it was for the initial preliminary terrain-flattening works for the new airport in the area of Spata (which was finally completed many years later on March 2001).

No, I don't know what happened to everybody that dared to whisper the word "skyscraper" even in his sleep at that time. He might probably have his tongue cut holy inquisition style or been baptized in burning oil to repent or something :lol:. The essence is that in 1985 the new and updated master plan of Athens was introduced. This was the ULTIMATE tombstone of any hope that new buildings above 10 storeys would EVER be built in Athens, a city of some 4 million at that time. From then on, many buildings were built, some good, some bad, most of them indifferent. However, while many provisions of the building code might have been violated or succumbed to interpretations well in the fringes of the law, the ones regarding the height of buildings were the only that have been religiously followed by big and small contactors alike. Since 1985, building heights and tall buildings are the absolute taboo concepts for all the parties involved in the constructions of buildings. The decision to NOT build above a height of 30m although has been adamantly followed all those years. Occasionally, a 5-10m addition might have been attempted following a "wide interpretation" of the existing laws, and with absolute fear of the neighbouring "NIMBYs" (Not-In-My-Back Yard) and other community interest groups. For your information, the Greek NIMBYs are the most "hardcore" in Europe. Perhaps the UK's "National Heritage" may be a bit more organised but ours are more militant in their instinctive fear against anything taller than 7 storeys, since they belong to the Mediterranean variant of the species….

So, what took the place of potential highrise constructions? Read on

As mentioned previously, in 1985, the possibility of skyscraper or highrise construction has been sealed irrevocably with the last master plan. In addition, many of the companies that had one way or another built tall buildings, i.e. Alvertis and Dimopoulos (Athens Tower… ) or EDOK-ETER, were shut down for various reasons. Also, it is true that although the new restrictions did not allow the vertical expansion as a means for "glam" corporate architecture to flourish, the Greek architects started to experiment with forms and space allocation as a means of creating and "prestige" and "style" into their building constructions.

Although this can easily be the topic of another thread, the above mentioned architecture was evident in two major types of constructions back then. The first type involved the early 1980's booming of the first generation of shopping centres (most of them under 10,000 or even 5,000sq metres and built many times in inappropriate locations in Chalandri or Glyphada, with the exception of "City Plaza" in Ano Glyphada and "Aithrion" in Maroussi, but still, having nothing to do with today's giants in Maroussi, Ilion, Rentis in Athens Greater area and Pylaia in Thessaloniki. (If you want more on this, I can give you my bank account number to pay me; This is to much work to do for free :D).

However, the real booming of glam or "prestige" architecture took place with regards to corporate offices. It seemed that the Athens Tower or the Atrina Centre, despite all the bad publicity and the evangelical style admonishments from the supposed connoisseurs about the evil and corruptive nature of capitalist architecture, after all, left their mark. Since 1985, many old and new architects started to use glass in their buildings displacing concrete or marble as the primary exterior cladding materials. However, the biggest impact to what even remotely might resemble the new and modern business quarters of other historic European cities was made by a particular company still bearing the name of its founder, the Bavis Vovos SA (http://www.babisvovos.gr).

Babis (or Charalambos) Vovos is one of the type of charismatic persons known with the term self-made. Originally from Filiatra (http://www.nds.gr/filiatra/), a town in Messinia, Pelloponese, (where, -unbelievable!!!- there is a scaled-down model of the Eiffel Tower!!! (http://www.nds.gr/filiatra/images/pyrgos.jpg), so, there HAS to be something about this place after all :eek: ), this guy made it first to the Athens National Technical University (Μετσόβειο Πολυτεχνείο ) to study civil engineering. He finished his studies while working at the same time and after some years of hard work he started his own company. His early works include among others a 12-storey residential (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=166635) in Pouliou street in Ampelokipi which for quite some time accommodated some departments of the Ministry of Environment and Public Works as well as many others. The most famous of his early works may be the 8-storey "Atrium" business and shopping centre in Charilaou Trikoupi street and others in the late 1970's. However, the real turning point for the man's career came with the completion of the Atrina Centre (1980) which, as mentioned earlier was the last "real" skyscraper completed in Athens. This building signified the movement of Babis Vovos's activities in Kifissias Avenue where, for almost a quarter of a century continued to work on mainly lowrise constructions including the Agora Center (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/cx/?id=104004) (1983), which was awarded an International Construction Award in 1990, the Polis (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/cx/?id=104005), the Monumental Plaza (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/cx/?id=104006) (1998), and the 1 Kifissias Avenue Complex (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=207609) (2002).

One of the reasons that I like this guy is that he is a NIMBYs buster. He has won ALL the legal battles against him and thanks to him, Kifissias Avenue was transformed into the decent modern 6-lane boulevard which, albeit lowrise, is able to go on the next stage.

OK, here's the man at work in 1990 in front of the then under construction "Polis Centre". I bet that probably this is one of the pics that he would like everybody to remember him:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35743/429399/0/Babis+Vovos+in+front+of+Polis+-small800x.jpg

And indeed, thanks to Babis Vovos, Ioannis Vikelas (Babis Vovos main architect and, as mentioned above, architect of the Athens Tower), Iason Rizos (Athenaeum Intercontinental Athens), Stelios Aghiostratitis, and MANY MANY OTHERS, Kifissias Avenue and Syggrou Avenue became the new poles of expansion. As mentioned many times in this forum to the information of , Kifissias Avenue leads to the northern suburbs while Syggrou Avenue leads to the South. The characteristic of both sides of these two avenues in part (as well as in many others) are that they indeed
Kifissias Avenue Shots;

- "Polis" complex, in Kifissias Avenue, partial view

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/29410/347429/0/Polis+4%2C+5+and+6+-+2+-+small+.jpg/Polis+4%2C+5+and+6+-+2+-+small+.jpg

-"Babis Vovos" Lowrises in Kifissias Avenue – watch the sign on one of the buildings

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/29410/398404/0/Athens+-+Kiffisias+Buildings+Medium+-+2.jpg

Atrina Centre and lowrises seen from the backyards of Kifissias Avenue

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/29410/354996/0/Atrina+Centre+and+neighbourhood+1-small2.jpg

-From the Olympic complex yards:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c94/gm2263/Athens%20Skyscrapers%20and%20Modern%20Architecture%202/AtrinaCentrefromOAKA-small800x.jpg

-Aerial of the Junction of Kifissias and the new Arrica Road (Athens main ring road) © Athens 2004 Olympic Games Committee

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/29410/398403/0/Athens+-+kiffisias+Intersection+-+Medium.jpg

Two shots of Syggrou Avenue (although there can be many more – also these are old from 2002- but remastered for their presentation here. However, if I find myself in the area, there will be updates :)

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35743/429238/0/Athens+-+Syngrou+Buildings+-2005+-+small800x.jpg

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35743/429239/0/Athens+-+Syngrou+Buildings++2+-+Large+small800x.jpg

As one can see from the above pictures, what we have in Athens is strange: Because of the very strict laws, many architects created buildings whose design philosophy correspond to much taller structures. I remember many times in the Greek papers, people referring to these buildings as "the glass towers" (οι γυάλινοι πύργοι ) etc. Well, I would like to tell those journalists that they call these buildings "towers" that yes, these are heartbreaking and very heart-touching efforts to imitate taller buildings given the miserable constraints that these guys were allowed to build, but "Towers", ehem, sorry, they are not.

Just imagine those buildings (side roads of Kifissias Avenue) being just two times taller:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35743/429237/0/Athens+-+Shelman+and+Atrina+small800x.jpg

…or see the desperate attempt of the architects here to give just a bit more height to these buildings in Syggrou Avenue, literally exhausting all the legal limits bit still, just as the buildings reach the "critical" height of some 30m, the law doesn't allow to go even a centimeter higher. Pity…

Syggrou Avenue buildings seen from Profitis Ilias hill in Piraeus with a MEGA ZOOM…

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429157/0/Syggrou+Avenue+from+Profitis+Ilias-small800x.JPG


5. Athens Olympic Games: The day height and size came in from the back door

But there's always a back door to everything, and this includes large-size constructions too. One of the reasons that in essence I was a fervent supporter of the Olympic games since before Greece took them in 1997, it was because I was expecting that AT LAST something of a grander scale might be built than 8-storey buildings. Well the end result was at least partly vindicating for me.

Few people know that the Athens Olympic Stadium (originally completed in 1982 but planned years and years ago by the Doxiadis Bureau and Konstantine Kasramanlis the elder in the early 1960's) was not initially meant to undergo so many changes and such a metamorphose from its initial and original design for the 2004 event. Also, few people know that it was because of its existence that Athens beat a number of other candidate cities in organising the year 2004 summer games that day in September 1997. Funny thing is that there IS a whole story behind the dramatic changes that this complex underwent until it was finally given for use to the International Olympic Committee in June 2004 were not part of the original plan for the installations. There were supposed to be some renovations in the original site, yes, after all, there have been many years since the gigantic complex was completed, but still, nothing at the scale we finally witnessed. But fate sometimes works in mysterious ways.

In 2001, four years after Athens was given the games, and just three years before the games, the then renowned and now famous all over the Greek speaking world, mainland as well as overseas, Spanish architect Mr Santiago Calatrava, was in Athens. The purpose of his visit was to promote an exposition taking place in the Athens National Gallery regarding his architecture and his work,. At that time, Mr Calatrava was yet another unknown high class visitor in Greece, whose work was unknown to the general public. However, the then minister of culture, Mr Venizelos took notice of Mr Calatrava's visit and he took the chance "to approach" him, as the press put it during his stay in Athens.

The architect responded positively and hours later the two found themselves in a tête a tête (face to face) meeting at a restaurant where, as the relevant urban myth puts it, Mr Venizelos proposed to Mr Calatrava the redesigning of the Athens Olympic Stadium from a mere athletic centre into an architectural landmark. The architect (obviously having "felt" the smell of challenge and opportunity in the air), really proved to be in a fully vigilant state of mind, since he immediately designed a preliminary sketch of his visualisation on a piece of napkin, which included the well known arches of the Athens Olympic Stadium. It seems that Mr Venizelos instantly fell in love with the design since he offered Mr Calatrava his full support and endorsement and with lightening speed, compared to not only the Greek but even for the so-called "western" standards, these plans were immediately adopted and a whole mechanism was put at Mr Calatrava's disposal who for three years became an Athenian, body and soul, despite the critics from the inside the government, the opposition, the country's architectural community (which in many cases wake from their lethargic state only to criticize others that they want to produce), you name it.

There might have been delays, and in cases, the stress created from the stalling of the works was said to be impossible to handle. Actually, few people knew that the earth below the Olympic Stadium has long been used as an old lignite mine and the ground had to be injected with cement so as to sustain the colossal weight of the Olympic Stadium's arches. My mother at some time pointed out that some of my uncles (long gone but not forgotten) would go there to buy lignite back in the mid-1940's in order to trade it. However, the bloody thing was uncharted and at some point in 2002 or something the Calatrava design team found that the area below the stadium was like a Swiss cheese!!!.

But they finally did it and the result was the one we all know and saw during the games.

Anyway, 8 months after the games were finished, and while driving on the Spyros Louis Avenue direction Kifissias Avenue (my favourite Sunday afternoon drive) I fully appreciate the significance of this stadium (which too, is in Maroussi :D). It familiarised again the Greeks with big-scale works and made the word "vision" commonplace and applicable for things bigger than 8-storey buildings. The 80-m tall and 300-m long arches of the Olympic stadium kid of "legalised" discussions about grand scale constructions in Greece, despite the many voices of negativism who were regurgitating their usual miserable mantras about "the scales of the Attica terrain" as if Pericles and his predecessors didn't make the biggest intervention by literally flattening the Acropolis rock and building the site seven times until they reached perfection in the 5th century BC.

So, here is a very limited view of the stadium from the junction of Kifissias and Spyros Louis avenue, the road that passes in front of the stadium:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/29410/429179/0/Spyros+Louis+Avenue+and+OAKA+from+Kifissias+2-+small800x.JPG

…and, in any case, the Olympic stadium and the smaller structures added much to the otherwise barren suburban skyline of Athens,

-View of the Athens Olympic stadium (OAKA) from a nearby hill

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22632/24691/334269/0/OAKA+-+From+Tourkovounia+-+3+-+OAKA.jpg


-View of the OAKA from Penteli mountain, also depicting the Atrina Centre

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35743/429247/0/OAKA+-++from+Pendeli-2005-small800x.jpg


-View of the Messogeion twins from a rooftop in Papagos, with the velodrome roof !!!

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35743/429260/0/Residential+twins-Tower+Block+Messogion+Av.+5+-with+velodrome+-

Also, too bad, an 110m-tall sewing needle shaped mast that was supposed to be erected close to the stadium underwent a last minute deletion for budgetary and time-constraints reasons. In any case, the fact alone that Greeks learned to re-read the book on height and size, not only with this and the other Olympic works, but also with the new bridge of Rion-Antirrion, whose pylons have a total height of 220m from the bottom of the sea and some 160m from the surface of the water, is encouraging.

But, why is it that the Greeks are considered to be that much indisposed to the big and tall constructions? Was it always like that? Where did this dominant ideology came from, the one that claims that low is good even if it looks like this:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429158/0/Sea+of+Concrete-small800x.JPG

…and tall is bad even if it looks like this (http://www.emporis.com/en/il/im/?id=280441)?

And when on earth did all this ideological terrorism about 30m being the absolute cutoff point which has tantalized architects, builders, contractors and made Athens being as expensive as… mid-town Manhattan (since they build …five storey office "complexes" in Kifissias Avenue and consequently, the value of the land for premium office space goes sky-high)? Was it always like this? Well… read on :)

Here's the time to disclose you what I knew for a long time now, being probably the most ancient and the most FANATIC Greek highrise freak in this forum (as well as an editor in emporis.com, or skyscrapers.com as the old forumers here know :), for those –especially Greeks that managed to come this far: Dudes we've been played like puppets (κοινώς, μας δουλεύουν ψιλό γαζί )


6. The NEVER BUILT Athens Skyscrapers or, what they don't want you to know about them
Conspiracy theories in today's Urbanism:D:D

So…

…a long time ago in a Galaxy far, far away…

…there was a city that was lucky enough to have people with visions and unlucky that these visions came in the wrong place and in the wrong time as these plans were envisaged by people working for or being entrusted by the then oppressive regime in power… When a change in the ruling authority took place, the new rulers associated the plans of the previous rulers with the ultimate evils that might possibly happen to this city. One of the symbolisms of these previous rulers was the building of tall edifices to be used for accommodating state agencies of residences alike. Thus, building heights became the ultimate taboo in the Newfoundland of Democracy and all the plans for something taller that 30m became the object of contempt and public resentment. Schools and Universities started talking about "democratic", "human scale buildings" which would not be provocative with their dimensions and especially, their height. Over the years, the few opposing voices that dared to oppose this ideological and scientific fundamentalism ism have been isolated and scorned when not being subjected to angry attacks.

At the same time, armies of fanatic brainwashed NIMBYs were patrolling the neighbourhoods looking for undetected "behemoths" (in Greek: "μεγαθήρια" :lol: ), the term referring to whatever was taller than 6 floors. These species of fundamentalist janissaries have been trained to develop automatic reflexes against anything constituting a novelty and going beyond their aesthetic conceptions, which were limited to what is known in Greek as "polykatoikia", i.e. "block of flats".

Trough all these years a small boy managed to save some of those designs and keep them for the eyes of the future generations to come as he knew that after the age of unreason and backward fundamentalism where judgement would be clouded by anger as to the works and deeds of the past regardless of wrongdoing, perhaps the younger generations might see things with new vision, undistorted by the hating filters of the last 30 years.

Take for instance the blasphemous scrolls containing plans about an area they used to call "The Faliron Delta" and which, although it was located in the most privileged part of town, between the city and the sea, right on the coastal avenue, it remained a dumpster until the city was given the Olympic games. Yes ladies and gentlemen, the coastline between the two "Phalerons" old and new, a 2.5km piece of seaside urban zone for which other cities WOULD DIE FOR, served by three highways, a metro line (and now a tram line too) remained a barren and unused piece of reclaimed land until the Olympics.

However, the old jedi remembers that back in the days he was just a young padawan there already plans to transform this piece of land and sea into this!!! :eek: …and remember the year is 1974…

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35748/429285/0/Phaleron+Delta++-+small800x.jpg

This is the model of the then proposed Athens Intercontinental Hotel in the Faliron Delta. Looks a bit better than the one we have now, which was built some 9 years later and which is beautiful but some 6-7 storeys shorter :D as the Mujahendin of urban flatness had already taken over…

I repeat, the year is 1974…

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35748/429295/0/Never+Built+Intercontinental+Hotel.-small800x.jpg

this is the "Four Seasons Hotel" and Casino In the Phaliron Delta. Also never built :D

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35748/429287/0/Never+built+Four+Seasons+Hotel+small800x.jpg

I repeat, the year is 1974…

This is the Holiday Inn, which was supposed to be built in the current location of "Intercontinental" Hotel being some 3 storeys taller.

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35748/429288/0/Never+built+Holiday+inn++Hotel-small800x.jpg

Now this is a tpurist complex that was supposed to be built at the Varkiza bay on the greater coastal zone of Athens (for the Greeks: It is right on the straight section of the coastal highway off Varkiza).

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35748/429294/0/Never+Built+-+Tourist+complex+Varkiza-shortened+-+small+800x.jpg

These are the designs for a home for the… incurables proposed for Korydallos, to the west of Athens. Yes, this is from 1974

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35748/429289/0/Never+Built+-+Home+for+the+Incurables+-+Korydallos-small800x.jpg]

Wanna see more? Here samples of two architectural competiotions that took place in 1972 to accommodate the head offices of the Greek Telecom Organisation (OTE) and the Hellenic Power Corporation

This is the runner-up building that won the prize in the architectural competition for the OTE Head Offices Building which took place in the –I repeat- 1972 In the absence of a first prize, this solution was adopted the building was completed in late 1978, albeit with some modification (for the worse in my view) from the original design as follows. Thanks to it though, the suburb of Maroussi looks somewhat impressive at this spot.

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35748/429290/0/OTE+Building+-+Competition+Results+-+small.jpg

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/29410/401686/0/Athens+Kifissias+Roundabout++-+2005+-+Medium.jpg

This is the building that won the prize in the architectural competition for the DEH Head Offices Building in 1972 :D:D:D. designed by the A. Tombazis Architecture office.

I repeat: In case you haven’t noticed the year is 1972:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35748/429292/0/Never+built-DEH+tower-First+Prize-small.jpg

Now the funny thing: This is another entry for this competition that didn't even get a prize!!!. The architects are Molfessis and Pagkalos and I believe that they need a mention somewhere at least once for their proposal.

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35748/429293/0/Never+built-DEH+tower2-small.jpg


I want you to stop here, take a close look at the above picture and think:

If the above building was built in 1972 in La Defence especially close to the RER station, wouldn't it be seen as a worthwhile addition to its skyline? Yet this was proposed for Athens in 1972.

But there were not just the professionals and the accomplished professionals thinking about tall buildings back then. Last but not least, here is the summary of a final year dissertation of a student of the National Technical University of Athens, as appearing in "Architectonika Themata Vol6/1972. The topic of his thesis is the "Renewal" of the then (and even more now!!! :D) dense inner district of Athens called "Kypseli". The supervising professor is Mr Aravantinos and the year is, er… 1971. In the beginning I wanted just show you the picture, but the text, both in Greek and English – is equally interesting and indicative to the spirit of the times.

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35748/429297/0/Highrise+Proposal+-+Kypseli+-+Dissertation-small.jpg

And the obvious question comes next:

What happened to all those heroic, never-heard-of architects that were visualising buildings or regenerations of whole districts and coastal fronts :eek: even on a case study basis 35 years ago and at a time that projects of such a scale and magnitude were possible only in areas such as La Defence (and even there; with the exception of the RER station, the rest of the structures were boxy modernist NY-style 1950's towers in their vast majority, being the "first generation towers" or "Les tours de la première génération", as they are known). Why the above designs were and are systematically kept in the dark by the mujahendins of an ill-conceived "traditionalism" which is exhausted in everything being mediocre and equal in size and height? Why there had to be a Spanish architect to teach us-again the meaning of the word "grace" and "grandeur". Why in today's architectural magazines we see the works of even the smallest interior designer and "trendy" decorator, and yet, I repeat, the works and projects of those daring men both proposed and/ or realised- have never been displayed in the open? Why all this cover-up?


7. The Last Drama

Actually, Athens is one of the few cities in the world where the sheer number of highrises was [reduced by one since in the early 1990's, the old 15-storey unfinished Red Cross Hospital (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=168185) was bought by the "Vakon" construction company. The building was demolished in early 1996 and in its place were built two other (how typical) lowrise complexes, namely the new Errikos Dunant Red Cross Hospital (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=170302) and an 11-storey complex "Politeia Business Centre (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=170304)".

The whole case received extensive coverage from the news and thus the pictures below which are EXCLUSIVE captures of the coverage by the "Antenna" TV channel.

-Two pictures of the building before its demolition:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35647/428092/0/cap120-Aerial-Before+Demolition+1-compressed.jpg

You can see the people on Messogeion Avenue waiting for the event in this picture:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35647/428093/0/cap121-Aerial-Before+Demolition+2-compressed.jpg

Big Bang time as the building implodes after a series of controlled explosions from demolition charges… I did the collage using captured frames from the Antenna Channel news reel video

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35647/428094/0/Collage-compressed.jpg

And this is the cloud of smoke which covered the area after the demilition. In a symbolic manner just one year before Greece took the Olympic games, it signifies the end of an era that came and went without any significant changes taking place since, neeedless to say that the thought of building something of equal height probably never crossed the mind of the developers… after all, the building codes are much stricter now … :D:D:D

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35647/428095/0/cap119-Aerial+-Smoke+cloud+after+demolition-compressed.jpg

On the other hand, an old building located in Syggrou avenue, the head offices of the Insurance company "Interamerican", have completely re-clad their head offices.

This is what the building looked like before the recladding:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35748/429518/0/Athens+-+Interamerican+Tower+-+Original+Design+-+cropped+and+sma

…and his is what it looked after the recladding:

-Front view:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35743/429224/0/Athens+-+Interamerican+Tower+-+Front+1+-2005+-++small+800x.jpg

-Rear View

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35743/429227/0/Athens+-+Interamerican+Tower+-+Back+-+2005-small+800x.jpg

In essence, this 14-storey building is probably paving the way for others to follow, and in a sense, in the absence of others, one may say that this is the first Greek skyscraper of the new millennium!!!


8. The future… Are there any chances?

Despite the fact that the previously mentioned "fundamentalism" was utterly dominating, there have been some voices of reason trying to state the obvious truth: what beauty is, lies in the eye of the beholder. Voices for instance like the one of N. Margaris who is a professor of ecosystems (which means that he knows abut ecology much more deeply than most of the Taleban NIMBY's and their ignorant mentors). Yet this guy is asking (click here to read the full article in Greek) in contrast to may of his counrterparts: "What was the reason for not building skyscrapers in Athens?", while Mr Andreas Zoulias points out: "Every Saturday, most of the Greek architects as well as the students of architecture go to specialised bookstores to keep up to speed about the masterpieces created by their foreign counterparts, (where) most of these creations have been built with much more lenient building codes and height restrictions than ours" in other words, they want to learn about buildings they admire, yet they won't be able to build in their home country, not unless they fight with the absurd laws, the Taleban NIMBYs (who are probably the most militant in Europe, after all these years of continuous brainwashing) and the backward academic community…

But could there be any places, or better, are there left any places for skyscraper construction in today's Athens? The answer is not hypothetical since what we have all learned to believe that Athens is, is a small area or few blocks between the Acropolis, the Constitution Square, the Ononia square, and the picturesque district of Plaka.

However, modern Athens is a conurbation with 5,000,000 inhabitants quickly expanding outside the Attica Basin known by the physical boundaries set by the mountains of Hymettus, Pendeli, Parnitha and Aegaleo. Most of the lowrise fundamentalists talk about the 150m-tall Acropolis rock whose sight must remain unmolested from ALL spots around it. However, nobody would argue that to build scrapers NEXT or even NEAR to the Acropolis would constitute an act of sacrilege and blasphemy. In fact, the Athens tower in my view is somewhat close to it at a distance of some 5 km, as well as at a dangerously close distance of about 1km to the 270m Lycabettus hill. However, there are still places where the Acropolis will not be offended and they are right in the middle of the new developments. In the map below I have marked with circles three proposals for areas pointed out by various city planners.

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35743/429520/0/Athens+Skyscrapers+Map.jpg

Area #1 (blue circle) : This is located around the roundabout junction of Kifissias and Attica Road junction, in -where else?-Maroussi. What makes the area the best candidate for the construction of tall buildings is the access by all means of transport, i.e. Metro, Suburban rail, car and buses and its direct connection with the new Athens airport via the Attica Road. The openness of the space, the existence of many unbuilt estates would allow for a 160+m-tall, 40-something storey slim, "pencil" tower with a cluster of half a dozen buildings between 100-14m height and a few satellites between 50-100m. Ideally, the planned extension of a branch of the metro line #3 there can make the area a dream business district with three lines of metro and suburban rail connecting it with the airport, Athens city centre, Piraeus, and even the city of Corithos (the Korinthos – Loutraki extension of the suburban rail will be operational this June :).

Area #2: Kifissos Avenue (a.k.a. national Road #1, Athens-North, green circle) between the junctions with Kavalas Avenue and Peiraios Avenues, where also the famous "elaionas" is located. Foe there, I would envisage something of high density and up to 120m heights. Well?

Area #3: This is the area of Drapetsona close to Piraeus and to the best of my understanding they were planning to build a shipping business centre there. The area is perfect since it is hidden from the Acropolis, but it also can provide for a dramatic "by the sea" mini-skyline as I wouldn't think that anything above 80m would be necessary there.

Areas that I WOULDN’T build anything tall:

1. The old airport which is to become a metropolitan park, Hyde-Park style (part of it was used as the "Hellenikon Olympic Centre"-see map). The tallest structure could be a 12-storey hotel and Casino as well as convention centre, using the existing installations.

2. Anywhere between the Acropolis and the sea as this would destroy one of Athens's major advantages, i.e. the aphitheatrical view of the seaside. This includes Syggrou avenue where probably there can be a couple of some locations for 2-3 15-storey buildings.

3. Anywhere between the Acropolis and the Lycabettus. Both are natural monuments and anything above the existing building heights would ruin the view.

Also, how about a 220-m tall TV-observation tower in the main Athens Olympic Complex in Maroussi-Kalogreza?

In any case, and to cut a long (VERY LONG in fact) story short:

-Do NOT listen to the propaganda about the total need for "flatness" in a big city of 5 million people with diverse needs of all sorts because of it's antiquities. It is urban planning discipline and good organisation that matters, not the absence of tall buildings. On the other hand, a real metropolis has to look like a metropolis and I just pointed some places where hundreds of square metres of office space can be built without any serious harm to the environment. Nobody said that we should build 40-storey towers next to the Acropolis.

-All historical cities in Europe are resorting to solutions reminiscent of La Defence: Preserving their historic core and creating a second financial centre outside the main city centre where economic pragmatism does not interfere with the need to preserve a city's history. In Paris – La Defence, in London –the City and Canary Wharf, in Mardid - the Azka district, in Istanbul – ( :D ) Levent, Maslak and Kozyatagi, in Vienna: DonauCity and Wieneberg and I don't know the names of of the places where things are moving in Bratislava, Warsow, Vilnius, Prague, Brussels, Rotterdam, you name it. Even in Italy, which does not have tall buildings in proportion to its economic size they are seriously reconsidering and we should not forget the Centro Direzionale in Naples where I wish we had have these babies in Elaionas for instance :D. After all, Rome has the EUR district since 30 years ago and Milan hosted the Pirelli skyscraper, one of the first outside US Soil!!! Almost same as Athens which had the Athens Tower in 1971 :D

-Truing to artificially scale down the city's constructions in dimensions suitable to small towns and villages only managed to result in a fragmented urban development where, instead of streamlined urban and societal functions we are now in parts faced with anarchy, caused by the many conflicting uses of land – i.e. residence vs economic activity. In essence, cities have their own dynamics and this is proven by what happens in Maroussi where out of the blue and without any direction from the state, Kifissias Avenue, became in 20 years a business centre. Keeping building heights low only results in high real estate prices on specific locations of highly valued and prominent pieces of commercial property. This very moment, commercial property prices in Athens are equal to mid-town Manhattan which, after all is an island in one of the biggest financial centres of the globe. Also, Athens is in places equal to London, more expensive than Hong Kong and equal to Paris. My understanding is that in the next decade development cannot be stopped. It may be possible to regulate it (as the case is anywhere) but to try to quell it would be wrong-unless we want the buildings tenants, i.e. companies that employ hundreds of qualified Greek employees to leave the city for a more friendly destination. And you know what this means…

-It is rather unlikely for a new generation of highrises-even for residential purposes, to be built in the same fashion that their older cousins were built… Technology and a new breed of Greek architects that more and more are posing the same question along with everybody else: "why don't they build skyscrapers in Maroussi or other suitable place away from the Acropolis?


And I leave the potential bomb for the end:

It's been quite some time-since the beginning of the millennium- that I was reading scattered articles of people –architects, journalists, etc asking the very same question.

Looks like this time, there was a listening ear from the other side: Mr Souflias, Minister of the Environment and Public Works (isn't he? ) very seriously stated that "the existing master plan (meaning the 1983 one) served its goal but is nowadays outdated and in serious need of an 'update' (using the awkward Greek word: "επικαιροποίηση" ) to be in par with the needs of contemporary society". This is a statement that doesn’t come easily and by itself entails a hope for many changes.

Also, in the pro-government newspaper "Kathimerini" there was an article by an architect-urban planner whose name eludes me, that also talked about the need for "updates" in the master plans of Greece's major cities, especially with regards to the "coefficients" of production-utilisation.

And, I feel something may be changing. Now of course it may be early to tell but things may be moving really fast in a few months. Of course, years and years of negativism may be difficult to be washed away in just a few months… But life works in mysterious ways… Well, this day may not be that far away after all. After all, who would believe ten years ago that the Olympic Games would change this city so much…

I mean…

Just imagine telling your girlfriends: My office is in the "Atlas Towers" block B, 25th floor…

So, before we end this presentation, I leave you with a part of an old Athens postcard which I edited by scanning this part (a very small part of the original postcard) in very high resolution and then by making it look like an antique using special effects…

The way it was when few thought that it could have happened what never came…

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429181/0/Athens+Skyline+7b+-+Detail-blast+from+the+past-small.jpg

But who says it's all over ????

9. Epilogue

Grand Opening – Olympic Towers Athens
Friday 23 April 2010(Reuters)

Gm2263 reporting from Athens, Greece

Following a four-year frantic pace of construction, the new Olympic Towers complex comprising a 44-storey, 167m-tall office tower and a twin 33-storey, 135m-tall hotel and Casino open their doors today to tenants, guests and visitors in a grand opening ceremony, 30 years after the last highrise was completed in Athens. The highrise complex also hosts the biggest dedicated convention centre in the country with some 12,000 seating capacity, as well as a night club at the top of the hotel the SkyCity which is expected to become one of the top hot spots of the Greek capital in the years to come. Also, the new 5,000 capacity parking ensures that here will be plenty of parking spaces for all users and guests of the complex.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c94/gm2263/Athens%20Skyscrapers%20Visual%20Art/AthensOlympicTowers2.jpg

The complex is located in the booming suburb of Maroussi, which has now taken the lead from the historical centre of Athens as the premier business centre in this metropolis of 5mn inhabitants. According to market experts, it is the first of a new generation of highrises to be built in the area, which until the year 2020 is expected to look like similar highrise business districts in Europe.

According to the mayor of Maroussi "we expect that the new complex will further upgrade our city's position as the leading business centre in Greece. Our motto is: Go to the Acropolis for tourism, come to Maroussi for business". As to the concerns about this new wave of highrise construction from some interest groups, he also pointed out: "All contactors are committed to regenerate parks and squares in the region for free. We expect an increase of 10% in the overall green spaces in Maroussi for the next five years, not including the existing regeneration projects. For us, building tall means going green all the way up".

Also, the president of LandScope constructions is back in Athens to finalise the details for a new 220m-250m-tall TV tower to be built in the Olympic Sports centre, now turned into a sports and architecture theme park.

Seems like Greeks rediscovered the art of building Parthenons again, who knows?

_____________________________________________

I mean…

WHY NOT?


PS... Don't forget to vote!!! :)
_____________________________________________


Suggested further readings (in English and Greek)

Aggelos Dimitriou (2001), Article, Newspaper "TA NEA" (in Greek)- " The 7 bullets in the heart of Athens", click here (http://www.tanea.gr/print_article.php?e=A&f=16983&m=R18&aa=1) to access

Charalabakis Antonis (2003) Article, Newspaper "TA NEA" (in Greek) on "Controversy of tall buildings in Greece", click here (http://www.tanea.gr/print_article.php?e=A&f=17786&m=N16&aa=1) to access

Margaris N – "To higher places" (Προς τα πάνω ) article copied from Newspaper"to vima" and stored by me in Pathfinder.gr (in Greek), click here (http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/file/gm22633/30719/427673) to access

Margaris N – "Who is responsible for the destruction of Athens?" (1998) Article, Newspaper "TA NEA" (in Greek) click here (http://tovima.dolnet.gr/print_article.php?e=B&f=12513&m=B06&aa=1) to access

Zoulias N – Architect, Article, "Architecture - Building Coefficient and Buildings' Height -
Peri-urban Land Management, (in Greek) click here to access the article in Greek (http://www.zoulias.com/articles/article010.html) and here, to access the same article in English (http://www.zoulias.com/articles/article010_en.html).

Georganas S (2005), The 10 Modern Hellenic Myths: Myth # 5: Athens Was Destroyed from the Big Buildings (http://www.e-rooster.gr/articles/pilaf10.htm) (in Greek)

Perlikos F (2005), To Uplift Us a little Higher (http://www.e-rooster.gr/articles/perlykos46.htm) (in Greek)

Manolas C (2006), Newspaper "TA NEA", Athens Following on the Steps of Los Angeles? (http://ta-nea.dolnet.gr/print_article.php?e=A&f=18553&m=N22&aa=1) (in Greek)

ALL-TIME CLASSIC:

THEY LIVE!!! -Know thy enemy!!!! Greek NIMBYs Action Page!!!: The Lion's Den!!! - (in Greek), click here (http://www.asda.gr/elxoroi)to access

Gia sou file gm

Grafo me greeklish gia evnoitous logous

Tha ithela na sou kano mia erotisi entelos filika kai horis kamia dosi ipokrisias

Ti to oreo vriskis se aftin tin thalassa apo mpeton?

I poli kata eme theli gremisma se polla simia kai poli perisotero prasino.

Signomi pou ginome disarestos alla opote vlepo teties fotografies tis athinas skeftome to pou imastan kai pou katantisame,tragiki katastasi.

Filika :)

File kosta,

Ma nomizo oti edo einai to provlima...

gia to oti eftase se afti tin katastasi ftaiei to xero mas to kefali. An eixame frontisei na kanoume mia anaptyxi me "zones". alloy tha eixame ta psila, (kai an diabases, theoro oti kai o pyrgos ton Athinon lathos einai ekei poy einai), tha eixame kai ta konta, kai ola tha itan sti thesi tous.

Tora apo ti stigmi pou thelame na exoume mia mitropoli 5 ekatommyrion me megethi ktirion polis 300,000 katoikon, logiko einai oti oi anagkes tha itan tetoies pou tha kalyptan kathe elefthero xoro. Den mporeis na to paizeis "oikonomiko kentro ths notioanatolikis Evropis" kai na mhn afinis psila ktiria exo esto apo thn poli, eno apo tin alli, epitrepreis tin anarxi anaptyxi ton pentaorofon me gyali mesa stiw geitonies toy Marousiou opoy o giapis vlepei th ginaika toy geitona me ta esorouxa :lol:

Opos vlepeis ego epexirisa mia katagrafh tou olou thematos. Eimai yper tou gkremismatos to opoio tha elthei anapofefkta efoson h zoi arketon polikatoikion toy Kentrou fainetai na ftanei sto telos tis. Apo edo kai pera ti kanoume poyu me ena seismo (xtypa ksylo) tha pesei poly klama...

Oles (ma OLES ) oi poleis tis evropis pou einai emporika kentra exoun psila ktiria. I Romi den exei giati DEN einai oikonomiko kentro, nanai kala gi' ayto to Milano. Opos episis, to Amsterdam einai sxetika lowrise giati yparxei to Rotterdam.

A! kai xronia polla gia ti giorti sou...

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!
GM τέλειο thread !!!!
Μπράβο!

Btw, προχθές έγραφα ιστορία...μιας και μίλησες και για παλιότερες εποχές...κοιτάξτε τι βρήκα:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/kostya/35829/430389/0/athenstower.jpg

(δίνω το link γιατί η σελίδα ήδη είναι βαριά :) )

Είναι από το 2ο βιβλίο ιστορίας Γ' Λυκείου, ελπίζω η Μαριέττα να μην με κυνηγήσει γι'αυτό :D

File grigori
eise fantastikos opos panta oli i analitiki topothetisi ton pragmaton just amazing..
tha mou epitrepsete olous na po 2 logia...
Kosta ontos 70% tis polis theli gremizma eine gia klamata kathe fora pou pernao apo kati periohes mou erhonte ta dakria sta matia...
alla tha simfoniso kai me ton grigori giati to idio leo kai ego apo persi pou girisa stin athina...
prepi na eheis ta proastia se zones vlepis maroussi meno kai parolo pou to spiti einai konta stin kiffisias exei appla ... alla mehri pote efosson htizoun afta ta koutia pou ta theoroun grafia akrivos apenanti sou e pos kosmos na min einai enantion, alla thelo na po oti kai ego vlepo fos sto tunnel kai siga siga i nootropia alazei,
kai ego pisteuo oti i kifissias den tha itan etsi aplomeni alla me perissotero prassino ean eihe kana 10 ouranoksistes ohi poli psilous alla giatti ohi anamessa 20-25 patomata....
anyway great threat gregory bravo for all that hard work :cheers:
and I am sure a lot of changes we will see in our City.

Absolutely the BEST Athens highrise thread ever created; probably it is the only one, too :lol:

I think that Athens may gain a few high-rises in the future, but it will not create some sort of downtown feel, as we know it in the United States. Due to its urban feel all over the city, Athens can see high-rise construction in many areas, thus depriving the city of a uniform skyline. Still, it will look nice. The problem most of us see is that growth also destroyed Athens' opportunity to create a very attractive and livable environment. Many areas suffer from narrow streets, lack of parking space, green areas and many other things other major cities around the world take for granted.

Athens, just like many other "old" citie, is going through a facelift period. Urban planners have seen the mistakes of the past, and while they may make their own, they also try to replace disfunctional developments, or create functional infills. Assuming that high-rises are properly designed to withstand earthquakes - a very weak point for Athens - they may provide solutions, especially in areas that can hold much traffic.

Many thanks for putting together this useful thread. I learned a lot from it :okay:

gm,great thread ever made about Athens. very informative.thanx for sharing!

GM, you have outdone yourself my friend.

When I saw your post I got up from my desk at work and closed the door (I am lucky to have my own office :)). I literally spent 1 hour reading your thread word for word! I learned so much! Thank you for your hard work, dedication, research, and optimism for a tall Athens!!!

Bravo sou!

Katapliktiki douleia that CANNOT be praised enough !

O ogos ton pliroforion, i pleithora ton pigon, i domi, ola toso exairetika grammena pou ANETA tha mporousan na apotelesoun ena olokliromeno thesis. Den xero an ola ta parapano aptontai ton spoudon sou, an oxi, tote i douleia sou axizei akomi perissoteron epainon.

Exairetika informative - makari na mporouse na filoxenithei se kapoio periodiko i' efimerida eyreias kykloforias kai na mathoun ki alloi ola osa mathame ki emeis apo ti dimioyrgiki grafi sou.

Exairetiko ! Sygxaritiria kai eyxaristies gia ton xrono kai ton kopo pou afieroses gia ayti sou tin meleti.

The best ΗελλαΣ or ΑΘΗΝΑΙ thread ever! AthnενΣ like i never seen before(those nice pics)! and the information.. men! thank you soo much gm2263! :applause: :applause: im sure AtheενΣ will hav a beautiful skyline and skyscraper inda future! :okay:

Absolutly amazing thread. I visited Athens last year and being a skyscraper fanatis was surprised at the non-existent skyline. I knew there wasn't alot of tal buildings but I was struck by the absolute lack of them. Even thought there are no skyscrapers I think they architecture in these new districts is really nice. I love Athens and I hope it can learn to build tall. Can't wait to go back some day! :cheers:

:eek2:

:applause: :applause: :applause:

Firstly, let me congratulate you on a nice thread. Secondly, i didnt realise how 2nd world athens looked. It is really oldish IMO and that why i would like a Skyline to somewhat correect this problem. i think Kifissias or Maroussi would be the best locations. Nice work

File kosta,

Ma nomizo oti edo einai to provlima...

gia to oti eftase se afti tin katastasi ftaiei to xero mas to kefali. An eixame frontisei na kanoume mia anaptyxi me "zones". alloy tha eixame ta psila, (kai an diabases, theoro oti kai o pyrgos ton Athinon lathos einai ekei poy einai), tha eixame kai ta konta, kai ola tha itan sti thesi tous.

Tora apo ti stigmi pou thelame na exoume mia mitropoli 5 ekatommyrion me megethi ktirion polis 300,000 katoikon, logiko einai oti oi anagkes tha itan tetoies pou tha kalyptan kathe elefthero xoro. Den mporeis na to paizeis "oikonomiko kentro ths notioanatolikis Evropis" kai na mhn afinis psila ktiria exo esto apo thn poli, eno apo tin alli, epitrepreis tin anarxi anaptyxi ton pentaorofon me gyali mesa stiw geitonies toy Marousiou opoy o giapis vlepei th ginaika toy geitona me ta esorouxa :lol:

Opos vlepeis ego epexirisa mia katagrafh tou olou thematos. Eimai yper tou gkremismatos to opoio tha elthei anapofefkta efoson h zoi arketon polikatoikion toy Kentrou fainetai na ftanei sto telos tis. Apo edo kai pera ti kanoume poyu me ena seismo (xtypa ksylo) tha pesei poly klama...

Oles (ma OLES ) oi poleis tis evropis pou einai emporika kentra exoun psila ktiria. I Romi den exei giati DEN einai oikonomiko kentro, nanai kala gi' ayto to Milano. Opos episis, to Amsterdam einai sxetika lowrise giati yparxei to Rotterdam.

A! kai xronia polla gia ti giorti sou...

Ipo afto to prisma nai simfono, sostos poleodomikos shediasmos o opios tha perilamvani zones prasinou, aposimforisi ton piknodomimenon periohon ( lege me katedafisi ) kai shediasmos enos oikonomikou kentrou ( apoteloumeno kai apo psila ktiria ) ektos tou kiriou poleodomikou istou tis athinas.

y.g ) Efharisto gia tis efhes sou :)

Εξαιρετικο θεμα,ειμαστε τυχεροι που κανεις κατανοητα και στους ξενους πολλα πραγματα.

Κοnstantinoupolis Η εικονα της Αθηνας απο ψηλα την αδικει αλλα το μονο προβλημα δεν ειναι η ελλειψη πρασινου που σταδιακα μπορει να βελτιωθει αλλα και κατασκευη μιας ξεχωριστης πολυκατοικιας σε καθε ξεχωριστο χωραφακι με αποτελεσμα να υπαρχουν ολες αυτες οι γκριζες νεκρες οψεις και πολλα κτιρια αδιαφορης αρχιτεκτονικης.Απο την αλλη οι πολυκατοικιες εξυπηρετησαν και αντικειμενικες αναγκες και δυστυχως δεν ειναι δυνατον να γκρεμιστουν μαζικα και να ξεκινησουμε απο το μηδεν.Ας κανουμε κατι λοιπον για να βελτιωσουμε την οψη τους και ας μαθουμε απο τα λαθη του παρελθοντος.Mακαρι μα ανοιξει καποια στιγμη και ο δρομος για ψηλοτερα και ομορφοτερα κτιρια

Gm2263 πιστευεις οτι ειναι δυνατη η ανακατασκευη ολοκληρων γειτονιων οπως η Κυψελη?Οχι απαραιτητα με τη λογικη των πιο πανω σχεδιων αλλα με καποιο αλλο τροπο?Εχεις ιδεες πανω σ'αυτο?

First of all, I wish to thank you all for your comments and your support. I am also surprised by the fact that some 23 out of the 28 voters at the time of this writing clearly indicate their preference for the construction of really tall buildings in Athens where seven seem to have taken the hardcore path (choice 4) which I even didn't dare to choose (i voted for choice #3)!!!

And this trend is clearly visible from younger persons that have visited cities outside their own, or the Hellenes of the omogenia here who know that with the appropriate regulations, the old can co-exist with the new and that protection doesn't come by banning.

What one clearly detects from your posts (and from others that I read in stadia.gr) is the interest for the subject as well as a genuine love for the city of Athens (and the rest of Hellas) and its future. I wish the city planners of Athens could read this, as well as the various NIMBYs who already have their homepage, I gave it at the end of my previous post, where negativism is pouring out of my computer screen every time I visit it. I respect their opinions but I truly believe thet they see things the wrong way. Tall buildings is not the cause of their misery, lack of space is, space which, by not allowing tall buildings becomes a precious and many times, overpriced commodity.

I also wanted you to see that everything is in the eye of the beholder. 30 years ago, Greeks were designing buildings that are pioneering for even today's standards. Had some of these been built, we would be talking about a different city now.

The Olympic games, among other things, helped to break this wall of negativism with our city been enriched by 100km of new highways, a hige facelift of the building facades on its all major arterial roads which is still in progress and one of the hottest architecture parks in the world, namely the Olympic complex in Maroussi-Kalogreza.

Now the time has come for an organised vertical development, contained in specific zones and serving purely business purposes. Also, tall buildings seem to be an issue that may be of "upper-middle" level priority in Mr Souflias's (Minister of the Environment and Public works) meaning that it may not be to his utmost urgency but at least he seems to have noticed that the previous policies for urban planning need "updating" according to his own words.

After all, why isn't possible that this beauty (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=232025) isn't five, I mean just five floors taller?

Well, again, I didn't expect this kind of reaction from you all, that was a pleasant surprise. I hope though that soon we will have things to add to this thread.

@ Asst 31

Προβλέπω ότι κάποια στιγμή (γύρω στο 2010) θα τεθεί επί τάπητος ΚΑΙ το θέμα που θέτεις. Όχι, δεν προβλέπω πύργους 30 ορόφων και τα συναφή, απλά αυτό που θα έκανα εγώ θα ήταν να γκρεμίσω ένα οικοδομικό τετράγωνο και να χτίσω ένα ενιαίο κτίριο κάποιας καλής αισθητικής (ΟΧΙ τις ρόζ πυλωτές των νέων υπνουπόλεων τύπου Χαλανδρίου και Βριλησσίων ) και ύψους ελαφρά μεγαλύτερου από τα υπάρχοντα (πχ 8 ορόφους αντί για 6) δηλαδή με την ίδια ανοδομή αλλά σαφώς μικρότερη κάλυψη και το χώρο που θα κερδίσω από το πανωσήκωμα και το γκρέμισμα των μεσοτοιχιών κλπ να τον κάνω παιδικές χαρές, κοινόχρηστο πράσινο και δεν συμμαζέυεται. Φυσικά και θα υπάρχουν ΠΟΛΛΕΣ θέσεις πάρκινγκ.

Το θέμα είναι ότι υπάρχουν και κοινωνιολογικοί λογοι (λογικό ) ο πληθυσμός της περιοχής είναι ανομοιογενής (πχ αλλοδαποί και Έλληνες ) και χαμηλού εν πολλοις εισοδηματικού επιπέδου και ίσως αυτό δημιουργήσει προβλήματα συννεννόησης αφού κανείς εδώ που τα λέμε δεν θα θέλει να αφήσει το σπίτι του που το ξέρει και ζεί εκεί για να πάρει κάτι άλλο, έστω και στην ίδια γειτονιά.

Μεγάλο το πρόβλημα...

Είσαι πολύ μεγάλος!
Γιατί δεν το στέλνεις σε όλες τις εφημερίδες και τα κανάλια αυτό?

Εγώ πάντως είμαι πρόθυμος να υπόγραψω "εν λευκώ" υποστήριξη του συγγραφέα

Είσαι πολύ μεγάλος!
Γιατί δεν το στέλνεις σε όλες τις εφημερίδες και τα κανάλια αυτό?

Εγώ πάντως είμαι πρόθυμος να υπόγραψω "εν λευκώ" υποστήριξη του συγγραφέα

Και εγώ μαζί σου… μήπως και ξυπνήσουν ει υπεύθυνοι και Αρχιτέκτονες…και αλλάξουν νοοτροπία, αν και σίγουρα έχεις δίκιο ότι σε αυτήν την περίπτωση και τα χαμηλά στρώματα δεν βοηθάνε και πολύ την κατάσταση…… βλέπε νέο μουσείο Ακρόπολης 2 έμειναν για γκρέμισμα και οι ιδιοκτήτες πάνε από ένσταση σε ένσταση

Ρε παιδιά, τι να λέμε τώρα, διαβάστε τι λέω μέσα στο νήμα πιό πάνω για τη "Βραδυνη" που έγραφε το 1976 ότι "Κρίμα που η δημοκρατία δεν έκλεισε το δρόμο στους ουρανοξύστες". Αν οι συντηρητικοί είχαν τέτοια μυαλά -άκου χουντικά κτίρια, λές και τα τσιμέντα ψηφίζουν-, τότε φανταστείτε τι γινόταν και με τους "προοδευτικούς" όπου μουσάτοι μιλούσαν για "μεγαθήρια" των 8 ορόφων και όταν μιλούσα με φοιτητές της αρχιτεκτονικής έβλεπα ένα μίσος στα μάτια τους και άκουγα αρλούμπες περί "μπουρζουαζίας" και κεφαλαίου και μισθωμένης τάχαμ- αρχιτεκτονικής απορούσα βρε παιδιά τι διάολο δασκάλους έχουν;

Ή μήπως νομίζετε ότι όλο αυτό το αρνητικό κλίμα εμφανίστηκε από τη μια στιγμή στην άλλη; Χρόνια ολόκληρα πλύσης εγκεφάλου η οποία τελικά και δεν κατέληξε και πουθενά διότι όπως είχα γράψει και στο "stadia.gr", μπορεί να μην χτίσαμε άλλους ουρανοξύστες (φτού κακά :D ) παρόλα αυτά καταφέραμε να πνιγούμε στο τσιμέντο και τελικά ούτε αυτά τα έρμα τα νεοκλασσικά κατορθώσαμε να τα σωσουμε, ας είναι καλά το Zara και το Habitat που τα διασώζουν μετατρέποντας τα σε πολυκαταστήματα.

Παιδιά δεν με διολίζει η γνώμη του άλλου. Με διολίζει η εμπάθεια, η υποκρισία και ο αρνητισμός. Με διαολίζει το ότι οι "περίοικοι" μπορεί να έχουν μια χαβούζα δίπλα από τα σπίτια τους και ναμην κάνουν τίποτα για χρόνια αλλά αν πάει κανένας να τη χτίσει, τότε ξεσηκώνονται οι πάντες να μη χτιστεί το "μεγαθήριο" που συνήθως είναι κάτι 5 ή 6 πατώματα, ενώ επιμένω, όσο ήταν οικόπεδο ΚΑΝΕΝΑΣ δεν έκανε τίποτα για να το μετατρέψει σε χώρο πρασίνου. Και δεν λέω, δίκιο έχουν αλλά δεν φταίει ο κατασκευαστής. Φταίει το κράτος που έχει επιβάλλει όρια υψών κωμόπολης στην πόλη ανεξάρτητα από το που βρίσκεται το ακίνητο, σε κεντρική λεωφόρο, ή σε παράδρομο, και όπως στο γεγονός ότι δεν πάει να πιάσει από το αυτί τον "κατασκευαστή" να του πεί "ξέρεις, εκεί χτίσε και 20 πατώματα (φτού κακα :D) άλλά εκεί αστο το ρημάδι, δεν γίνεται στην οδό Παραδείσου μέσα βαθιά σε οικοπεδάκια που θάπρεπε να είναι μονοκατοικίες να στεγάζονται πολυεθνικές και το τυχερό στέλεχος, μέσα στην ατυχία του να είναι στέλεχος (τα στελέχη καταλαβαίνουν τι εννοώ, δύσκολοι καιροί για πρίγκηπες... ) βλέπει την ημίγυμνη νυκοκοιρά παραδίπλα, χρήση γης δηλαδή φιρδην-μίγδην.

Αλλά βλέπεις βλάκες ήταν οι Γάλλοι που έκαναν τη La Defence όταν είδαν ότι ΔΕΝ ΓΙΝΕΤΑΙ να συνδιαζεις χρήσεις γης έτσι. Άλλο "mixed use" και άλλο απλά "allaloum" :laugh:.

Every time I see some pictures of Athens, it ironically reminds me my own city of LA (well, without the Acropolis for LA and Downtown for Athens, all the rest seems so similar somehow). Does any one else think that LA is the most similar US city to Athens or am I simply illusioning? Has any one been in LA here? Do they feel any similarities? In my opinion, couple of highrises will fit perfect to Athens skyline (we'll send our skyscraper people to you, but then you should send your Acropolis people to here to build something like that)

LA:

http://siggy.chem.ucla.edu/Around_UCLA/Westwood%20view3.JPG

Athens:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429109/0/Athens+-+View+From+Lycabettus+-+May+2005-small800xb.jpg

LA:

http://choices.cs.uiuc.edu/~ranganat/photogallery/Los%20Angeles/DSC01606.JPG

Athens: (this picture can be somewhere in Burbank area of LA)

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429121/0/Athens+Skyline+from+Caravel+2005+-1-small+800x.JPG

LA: (take the downtown part out to compare)

http://img92.exs.cx/img92/4360/ish9td.jpg

Athens:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429137/0/Athens+-+Holargos+-+P+Psychico+3+-+Aug+-+2004+-+small800x.jpg

LA:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/robotsaresosex/DSCF0134.jpg

Athens:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429158/0/Sea+of+Concrete-small800x.JPG

LA: (well, then consider LA has 17Million vehicles going to traffic every day, Greece has a population of around 10Million)

http://www.ust.ucla.edu/ustweb/Projects/Freeways/freeway_02_big.jpg

Athens:(I really liked this picture, can be somewhere in LA)

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/29410/398403/0/Athens+-+kiffisias+Intersection+-+Medium.jpg

Hopefully, I did not ruin your thread, excellent job by postings and lot of work I can see, visit our LA forum sometimes, well, we only put pictures, not as perfectly detailed as your work,

Thanks,

Every time I see some pictures of Athens, it ironically reminds me my own city of LA (well, without the Acropolis for LA and Downtown for Athens, all the rest seems so similar somehow). Does any one else think that LA is the most similar US city to Athens or am I simply illusioning? Has any one been in LA here? Do they feel any similarities? In my opinion, couple of highrises will fit perfect to Athens skyline (we'll send our skyscraper people to you, but then you should send your Acropolis people to here to build something like that)

LA:

http://siggy.chem.ucla.edu/Around_UCLA/Westwood%20view3.JPG

Athens:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429109/0/Athens+-+View+From+Lycabettus+-+May+2005-small800xb.jpg

LA:

http://choices.cs.uiuc.edu/~ranganat/photogallery/Los%20Angeles/DSC01606.JPG

Athens: (this picture can be somewhere in Burbank area of LA)

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429121/0/Athens+Skyline+from+Caravel+2005+-1-small+800x.JPG

LA: (take the downtown part out to compare)

http://img92.exs.cx/img92/4360/ish9td.jpg

Athens:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429137/0/Athens+-+Holargos+-+P+Psychico+3+-+Aug+-+2004+-+small800x.jpg

LA:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/robotsaresosex/DSCF0134.jpg

Athens:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429158/0/Sea+of+Concrete-small800x.JPG

LA: (well, then consider LA has 17Million vehicles going to traffic every day, Greece has a population of around 10Million)

http://www.ust.ucla.edu/ustweb/Projects/Freeways/freeway_02_big.jpg

Athens:(I really liked this picture, can be somewhere in LA)

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/29410/398403/0/Athens+-+kiffisias+Intersection+-+Medium.jpg

Hopefully, I did not ruin your thread, excellent job by postings and lot of work I can see, visit our LA forum sometimes, well, we only put pictures, not as perfectly detailed as your work,

Thanks,



Kill Bill you make an excellent observation. In January of 2003 my father and I flew out to Los Angeles to see an old friend of his. It was the year that the Super Bowl final was in San Diego.

We had a rental car and we drove everywhere (the hills of Hollywood, Venice Beach area, downtown LA, and even Las Vegas!) All we did was to comment to eachother how similar the landscape between Athens and LA was! Everything from the white houses to the dryer nature of the hills and mountains reminded me of Athens, especially the nicer suburban areas of Athens. Of course, there are many more highways and population in LA but the similarities were incredible!

Cheers!

:cheers:

LA and Athens are kinda similar... also I noticed from my short time in California/LA is the weather/climate/terrain is VERY similar. :)

Yo Billy boy, how'z'it going dude? Looks like you're a regular around here. Greetings from a cloudy (:eek: it's May, remember? ) Athens...

Actually I was plannin to give you my full reply tomorrow BUT if' you're lookin' for LA, Mediterranean style try this for starters. This is the exit of the Attica Road (Athens main ring road) on the mount Hymettus to my suburb, half a mile from where I live and YES, Athens is located in a basin surrounded by mountains Like LA.

So what do you say Billy? Isn't this Las Athenas (LA) or What :lol:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/29410/354983/0/Athens+-+View+from+Hymettus+-+Hymettus+ring+2+compact.jpg

Looks like we have sister relationship between our cities isn't it?

Hi, Gm, I aint no hang out in the forums too often but when I do, I follow couple of froums such as India, Japan, Indonesia, Euroscrapers, Greece, Turkey, Israel, US westcoast, Los Angeles (well, these forums have always nice pictures and constant updates). And there are some European subforums I really hate with boring topics all around.

More shock for you guys (well, I aint no sure whether you guys are fond of looking like LA (tons of people hate LA - it should be the most hated city of them all in US) but I am sorry, you guys do - and these are only the pictures from the Greek and LA forums - I did not even search on Google or etc.

Another LA:

http://people.ucsc.edu/~ehellen/pictures/LA001.jpg

And then Athens:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35743/429252/0/Piraeus+Tower+-+small800x.jpg


LA - Santa Monica:

http://www.geog.ucsb.edu/~joel/g148_f04/lecture_notes/transverse_ranges/santa_monica_8236.jpg

Then Gm's latest picture for Athens (when you posted it, I though it was one of the exits from 405 to Santa Monica)

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/29410/354983/0/Athens+-+View+from+Hymettus+-+Hymettus+ring+2+compact.jpg

Anyways, bro, I will look for your reply, excellent job again, make sure to visit our forums as well, we have buncha pictures (I have lots of Santa Barbara threads all around)

Cheers to Los Angeles and Las Athenas...

I was in L.A. last month and the whole time I was thinking "This place is almost exactly like Athens. The terrain with the oceans on one side and mountains on the other are exactly, the same the temperature is very similar, The size of each city is similar, sprawl. I really enjoyed L.A. very much while I was there and saw lots of similarities with Athens. We should create an Athens vs. L.A. thread sometime.

Wonderful thread from a wonderdul person.

I remember reading the archives of the OLD forum and GM was the ONLY Greek back then. He has represented his city and his country admirably back when alot of us were doing God knows what.

KillBill, hello and welcome!

Yes it's true. LA is Athens in disguise. Or vice versa. :yes: The climate of that particular part of California is similar. I've heard some say Athens has alot of of elements that make it look like some parts of Florida, but LA would be the most similar city to Athens.

Unfortunately Athens does not have LA's skyline. >(

http://www.utdallas.edu/~kzhang/Pictures/skyline.jpg

Prometheus and the other fellas,

You guys have a deal then with your LA brother. Please give us this temporarily (I even have my place for this - where Getty Center in LA is located):

http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/2658/dsc_4279.jpg

And we ll give you this for some time (our downtown aint no big like in NYC or Chicago, but it has its own charm) - but then you need to find a place in Athens for this:

http://www.pbase.com/image/37617147.jpg

But of course, yours is worth more than all the treasures and money, ours has a certain value, that is why I doubt you will take this deal,

Good night,fellas, from your brother city,

Perhaps we can work a deal.

The Temple Of Zeus for the California Plaza and Omni Hotel?
http://www.bibleplaces.com/images/Athens_Temple_of_Zeus_at_night_tb_n011501.jpg
http://www.usc.edu/dept/geography/losangeles/lawalk/new/bunker.gif

OMG :eek: when i first looked at one of those pics of la i thought it was athens. i had to look twice

@Kill Bill and the rest of the nutchos here:

I need to do some work. Then we can open a thread about Athens and LA because the similarities are striking. I swear to God that the vies from the mount Hymettus (5 minutes drive from my place) look EXACTLY like LA (you've seen many already) Also, in LA there is a river that looks exactly like Kifissos river before we covered it to make the Kifissos highway. The areas around Tavros and Rentis, especially the Petrou Ralli and Kifissos junction IS South central Los Angeles. The coastal areas of Hellenicon, Glyphada, Voula and Kavouri and beyond are 100% California style.

Now, I can immediately think of some LA movies that I liked much and I advise you to see for more:

-"Earthquake" starring Charlton Heston, Ava Gardner, George Kennedy, and many others, for the looks of the city before the quake. I mean, the LA Dam that collapses at the end of the movie looks like our Marathonas Dam and lake which is the last of a series of dams and lakes for water supply to Athens. BTW, few people know that our water supply comes from the Mornos River some hundreds of miles awy from our city. In any case, the movie is old (1974) and this is the one that made me start having an interest in skyscrapers back them. Also, I was platonically in love (at 11 years of age) with one of the actresses, the French-Canadian (I think) Gevevieve Bujold

-"Blue thunder" (1982), EXCELLENT movie starring Roy Scheider. Albeit old (the Library tower, LA's tallest at some 300m/1000ft and west coast's tallest wasn't built at the time), the movie has TONS of aerial shots since it has to do with the aerial surveillance LAPD units and the director is John Bandham. A classic.

-"Heat" (1994) directed by Michael Mann, starring Robert De Niro, Al Pacino, Val Kilmer, Ashley Judd (yummie!!!), Jon Voight among others. Highly recommended LA saga with unbelievable action scenes.

-"Collateral" (2003) again directed by Michael Mann, starring Tom Cruize. LA like never shown before. Action movie with a "road" kind of feeling, and some EXCELLENT downtown LA shots.

And I invite you all in Ekali, eeer, Holywood hills, for a coffee Saturday morning.

But like I said, I will definitely open a thread about this topic by Saturday unless I get run over by a truck or somebody else does it... :)

...Aaaah and don't forget:

"Ladies and Gentrlemen

From Los Angeles, California

THE DOORS!!!


:drunk: :cheers:

GM,
I promise to contribute to your LA-Athens thread as much as possible with zillions of LA pictures (some of which taken by myself), just put some Athens pictures on the net, I will find sth outa LA-equivalent for that. By the way, how do you know LA that well??? Have never ever been in LA before? You just give references like a local Angelino.

More pictures without the city names:

http://www.vrtheworld.com/panorama/photos/LosAngeles.jpg

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/29410/354984/0/Athens+-+From+Hymettus.jpg

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429120/0/Athens+-+Highrise+Skyline+View+from+Hilton+2+-Focus-+small+800x

http://www.jetpack.com/marcbrown/panorama/08-31-02-panorama.jpg

http://img122.echo.cx/img122/277/fcbersichtparnitha4uu.jpg

http://academic.reed.edu/getty/getty_old/m/pano52-59.m.jpeg

http://www.plfoto.com/zdjecia/39125.jpg

http://photos11.flickr.com/14357614_a107abd0db_o.jpg

http://www.plfoto.com/zdjecia/38034.jpg

http://photos9.flickr.com/14358116_7163885867_o.jpg

http://www.plfoto.com/zdjecia/36197.jpg

http://photos9.flickr.com/14358119_8c3f536e93_o.jpg

Take care,

Hi!!! Man, as always you did a great job and I consider this thread as a quick teaching course about Athens architecture.

One thing I would like to mention about those mistakes in Peristeri :0) : if you go a few blocks towards the Evangelistria church (Opposite plateia Anexartisias where the Peristeri metro station is due to be completed in 2006) you can find two more 12-stories buildings just next to the church (I know that, since my family comes from that area exactly).

Now, as for the building of towers (I prefer for office or commercial usage rather than residential) I cannot understand how this clever-fundamentalist-anties guys don't realize that building such buildings in certain areas like Marousi or the Delta, they could help in the reduction of that high density of cement lowrises we find in central areas, and thus those spaces could be used for green areas.

Look what has been done in America, where you can find all the skyscrapers in the downtown areas while the suburbs are made up of a jungle of suburban houses mixed with green (just look at any aerial picture from any average american town). But wait, that's not only in America, if you say "but Greece is in Eurpe and not in America" all right, just what is going on for the last years in Europe!! Paris, Madrid, London, Berlin, Frankfurt.....WARSAW!!!!

This clever anties don't realize that building an office tower, say of 40 stories, and a base surface double of that of a ten stories of those found in Athens dontown, they could free 8 terrain land spaces that would be used in a nowadays open space that could be used for green!

So, I hope they don't spoil that beautiful promising area of Maroussi with a jungle of lowrises that could be replaced by a few highrises (in a La-Defence style) and the rest of the space being used for amusement, parks and green!

Anyway I think we can breath some airs of upcoming changes, and those Calatrava arches are maybe the bridge to that new tendency which are becoming so common in neighboring countries.

Again, you did a really great job, keep going!!

Why dont the Un Builts go onto Emporis?

@ ALL,

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT (also included as edit note in the begining of the thread)

I have no words to thank EVERYBODY for your suppost and kind words. As mentioned, the response I received from various sources is overwhelming and beyond anything I have ever imagined.

I know that many of you might have been at pains with regards to the downloading. I hereby wish to announce that the original post's content is available in .pdf format which is readable by the Acrobat Reader package. This version although still very large (8MB!!!), is much more manageable as far as downloading and printing is concerned, is a kind contribution of the forumer Argyris (A MILLION THANKS!!!!!) from stadia.gr, who processed, paginated and converted it to .pdf format. It can be accessed by clicking HERE (http://www.argyri.com/stadia.gr/athens_skyscrapers_and_high-rises.pdf). I have to warn you that the links of the original script don't work but still, everything else is there.

This way you can save it or print it or, even more important, give it in any electronic and/or printed form to your friends and everybody else who will ever ask you about skyscrapers in Athens. By no means as complete as I would`like it to be with regards to my content and pictures, I believe it´s a good start for our fight for a reasonably tall Athens.

@ Giorgos 69

Er, there actually, some of them they will. In emporis we keep a very strict policy on photo copyrights and I wanted up to now to avoid any complications with regards to this matter. Also, with regards to architectural competitions, the never built term needed a clarification as to what it should include or not. On the other hand, as most of these pictures came from the architecture bureaus that they designed them, they are the original (C) claimants and NOT the magazine they were published and I can assure you that they will be glad to see their creations referred to there :)

Actually, come Monday I will proceed in a HUGE updating of the Athens and Piraeus material in emporis. I hadn't make any serious contribution for weeks (I was busy with this baby) and yes, I have to upload some 10 new building entries AND upload many of the pice you saw here in high resolution... :).

But I needed to do this thing here first since the material as presented in emporis is VERY GOOD for database purposes but here you can actually say more about the why's and how's of certain things... :).

I think you guys should stickify this thread!

I believe that this belongs here, besides a separate thread that I already created.

________________________________________

This is a personal gift from George, the admin of Stadia.gr. I thank him wholeheartedly and I present it to you:

Kifissias Avenue close to the junction with the Attica Road. To the right, the 18-storey Greek Telecom building is visible...

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gxenides/35990/432589/0/kifisias.JPG

Great thread!! Congrats to gm!! This should be a sticky thread!

Another picture from Las Atenas, taken from the Penteli mountain. Actually it's a a faraway shot of the few, the proud but not-so-great Athens highrises:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429118/0/Athens+-+From+Pendeli+-+6+-May+05-small800x.jpg

Also, I discovered two recent articles about skyscrapers in Athens from an Athenian blog. They are in Greek, as follows:

1. Georganas S (2005), The 10 Modern Hellenic Myths: Myth # 5: Athens Was Destroyed from the Big Buildings (http://www.e-rooster.gr/articles/pilaf10.htm)

2. Perlikos F: (2005), To Uplift Us a little Higher (http://www.e-rooster.gr/articles/perlykos46.htm)

Just for the record... :):)

gm πολυ καλο το αρθρο σου. Ελπιζω σιγα σιγα να διαχυθει η γνωση και να εξαφανιστει η ιδεοληψια που εχει υποχρεωσει την Αθηνα στην σημερινη μιζερια...

Giasou File! Welcome To SSC! We hope your stay here will be a good one and hopefully a long one!

any one have pictures renderings of these 2 olympic towers they're going to build in athens

@ Pilaf

Ααχ φίλε μου, δεν είναι τόσο απλά τα πράγματα, είναι μεγάλο το μέγεθος της ιδεοληψίας, είναι και το γεγονός ότι είμαστε άνθρωποι των άκρων. Με το που ακούει ο άλλος για ουρανοξύστες φαντάζεται ότι αν επιτραπούν, την επόμενη μέρα η Ακρόπολη θα περικυκλωθεί από μεγαθήρια τύπου World Trade Center ή κάτι τέτοιο...

Από την άλλη, κάτι κινείται αργά αργά όπως θα δείτε πιό κάτω αλλά βρε παιδί μου, είναι με τοι σταγονόμετρο... Απλά, όλοι οι φίλοι δέστε το επόμενο ποστ και κάντε την προσευχή σας να υπάρξει συνέχεια...

any one have pictures renderings of these 2 olympic towers they're going to build in athens

@ greekguymike

First of all, welcome to the forum greekguymike. It is our pleasure to see the Hellenes of Homogenia flooding this part of the forum and of course, Greek-Canadians are especially welcome too.

Well, sorry to disappoint you dear friend but this last part of the initial post of this thread was my wishful thinking and nothing solid really. I simply put here my wish (and a hidden proposal IF anybody involved in construction EVER reads it). No 40-storey hotels and convention centers for Athens, it simply transcends the local authorities and architects' imagination....

But you never know right?

Again, all of you welcome to the fun!!!

An interesting construction first announced by Konstantinoupolis in the Under Construction - New Additions section (click here (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=172083&page=2) to access ).

The buildings below constitute the complex of the Ministry of Commercial Maritime Building (Υπουργείο Εμπορικής Ναυτιλίας ) in Piraeus, close to the Dodecanese Islands Docks, on a location also known as "The Hietionean Docks" - (H Ηετιώνια Ακτή ).

http://www.aegek.gr/projects_s/ked.jpg

As the vigilant eye can observe, of particular interest is the VTS-VTMIS tower which will accomodate the National Maritime Management and Control System. As it can be seen from the photo, the tower may be feligible for classification as a skyscraper as per skyscrapers.com/emporis.com standards since it has 12 storeys and its height is 45 metres, making in the first NEW building to surpass the "psychological" limit of the 30 metres since 25 years.

However, I will need to go there for an on-site inspection before I proceed in adding it to the Piraeus emporis.com skyscrapers list (besides height there are a number of criteria which have to be fulfilled in order for a structure like this to be classified as a "building" and consequently as a "skyscraper" in the fiorst place... )

Notably, the tallest structures to have been completed in the same time frame after the last skyscraper in Athens-Piraeus metro area was completed, namely the Atrina centre in Maroussi, Athens in 1980, were the 80m-tall twin arches of the Athens Olympic Stadium designed by Santiago Calatrava. :):):):)

As for me, I am happy that day by day, little by little, the battle for a taller, Athens and Greece is won. At the the time of of this writing, this poll had 36 replies out of which 32 (that's 80% BTW!!! ) were in favour of biuilding tall in Athens. Notably, out of them, 12 (or the third) would endorse skyscrapers without any height restrictions where as the majority (including me) would better see them rising up to 40 storeys (or say, approx 160-180m), before gpoing all the way up :D.

Also, this thread, along with the one about Kifissias Avenue which was initiated by George_ts have achieved HUGE numbers of visits as at the time of this writing, the Kifissias thread had some 1800+ visits ( :eek::eek::eek: ), whereas this baby had reached a number of 1,074 and counting.

Well, well, well...

I have every right to believe that these numbers can be attributed to the strong desire (in Greek we have the word "λαχτάρα" ) to see their city changing face in certain areas and becoming taller. From time to time I receive PM's from people asking me about the prospects for a tall Athens. The question: "Why they don't build skyscrapers in Athens" (and potentially to Thessaloniki) is being frequently now asked in the media, I gave you some links, and even "serious" newspapers like "Ta Nea" or "Kathimerini" also ask the same question or at least ask for a retrospection about what was gained and what was lost out of this absurd policy to limit constructions to absurdly "human scales" at a time that all "human" measure was lost from the early 1960's when Athens started to become a 1.5m+ megalopolis and at that time, nothing was done to keep people in their villages instead of having them coming to this city.

Now, I see that something is moving. Of course, the road is still long. However, thanks to the internet, we, the believers of a tall Athens, must promulgate and communicate our ideas, find means of disseminating our beliefs and becoming the apostles of a new era of urban pride, where size and height would matter, while respecting the already existing heritage of this city and preserving it, but not at the expense of its true potential and glory. These numbers signify at least the active interest of many people in the subject. For the first time I feel that I (we??? ) are not alone!!!

After all, had our ancestors the same absurdity in their reasoning, the Acropolis would never have reached the heights for which is famous for... And yet, while the aesthetics of this monument are unrivalled, yet, we still have the chance to reach for new heights, driven by the same spirit of heightened excellence...

Great to see New Greeks

Update June 27, 2005: The original post is now included as an article in http://www.e-rooster.gr, following a kind invitation by the site's administrators.

E-Rooster is a website dedicated to free thinking. Click HERE (http://www.e-rooster.gr/articles/maloucos1.htm) to access the same article as is, titled "ALL OUT FOR A TALL ATHENS".

The site also includes a number of other interesting articles, all in Greek, and you are welcome to pay a visit.

@gm2263

Your dedication to Athens' skyscraper potential certainly is persistent. As for me, I see Athens' future as a compromise between option 2 and 3.

Certainly, the demand and need for consolidated structures in Athens are increasing by the year, however, unique cities require unique planning.

Over the next 20-30 years, Athens central district, namely monsatiraki, plaka, psiri etc should commision a law stating that non-national trust buildings over 50 years old are to be demolished in order to pave wave for new anti-seismic structures no more that 15-20 storeys high - but here's the catch - that structures must comprise of some neo-classical architectural elements (to be guided by a government appointed architectural commision). Some of the facade costs should also be contributed by the municipality of Athens. By doing this, over time, you develop a new but modern face of Athens that won't date, that is consistent with the historical laurels that the city rests on.

Meanwhile, in Maroussi and Kiffisia, the decentralisation of downtown Athens can begin with the CAREFULLY PLANNED development of a financial zone etc. with structures of 40 storeys and more.....

I know that we haven't agreed on this issue in the past, but really, any city can have a skyscraper, but only one has an Acropolis.

@ Lex: As I have explained to dear Konstantinoupolis a couple of pages ago, it's the zoning of activities which will allow creating one or two tall districts that will be able to co-exist architecturally with the Acropolis, in the same way that La Defence in Paris, has a symbiotic relationship with central Paris.

In any case, building such tall buildings close to the Acropolis would be a sacrilege. However, allowing Kifissias Avenue to be filled in its prime facades with lowrise and unneeded "entertainment centres" as per the new trend, where tall office complexes can be built, is something absurd in my view. Athens can have many faces expressed in many ways. I would vouch for the total removal of commercial activities from the centre of Athens and the liberation of whole blocks for "mild" activities. I mean, the heights of the buildings in central Athens are right the way they are. It's the density that's wrong.

The same pertains for Maroussi. I don't believe that there may be a sane person in this country that would like to reproduce the density pattern of Kypseli or Pangkrati, only in a higher scale, in Maroussi. And, of course, the last thing we want would be to create a version of Sao Paulo, that we managed to avoid during the 70's and 80's. Now, we know the mistakes we made, and certainly, I would be the last to suport their repetition. After all, I don't believe that we will reach this type of fast-paced development that will require 30 and 40-storey towers to pop-up like mushrooms any time soon... Although, chances are that once the first is announced and starts being built, others will surely follow... It's our mentality, you see.

I believe that proper zoning regulations instead of a one-size-fits-all five to sever storeys as the rule is now, will be the beginning of a new era. Then, little by little, we can revisit the densely populated areas and start demolishing... :D At least, that's something to which we all agree...

I thought we made a low-rise version of Sao Paulo...

We did...

Pictures originally posted by LEAFS FANATIC here (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=228241) (this guy has an unbelievable ability to find these pics all over the web, thanks buddy).

From the top of the President Hotel:

To the north, we have a look of the 24-storey Apollo tower which is the tallest residential tower in Greece. Also, towards the centre-right of the picture, we see the 17-storey Athens Expo Centre. The President Hotel is located on Kifissias Avenue, this 20-km arterial road connecting the north-Central Athens, district of Ampelokipi (where these particular pictures taken) with the suburbs of Psychikon, Chalandri, Maroussi and Kifissia where it the Avenue took its name.

http://daurio.smugmug.com/photos/8587544-L.jpg


Looking south, one may see the Athens Tower to the left and the Lycabettus Hill to the right.

http://daurio.smugmug.com/photos/8587541-L.jpg

But then again, nothing beats the real thing. Check THIS (http://www.emporis.com/en/il/im/?id=321418) out to see that nothing beats the original Sao Paulo :D.

We tried hard, tried hard though... Same density, different building heights...

And for the ones that may misunderstand (again) what I write here, my answer is NO, I don't like it... :)

@ Lex: As I have explained to dear Konstantinoupolis a couple of pages ago, it's the zoning of activities which will allow creating one or two tall districts that will be able to co-exist architecturally with the Acropolis, in the same way that La Defence in Paris, has a symbiotic relationship with central Paris.

In any case, building such tall buildings close to the Acropolis would be a sacrilege. However, allowing Kifissias Avenue to be filled in its prime facades with lowrise and unneeded "entertainment centres" as per the new trend, where tall office complexes can be built, is something absurd in my view. Athens can have many faces expressed in many ways. I would vouch for the total removal of commercial activities from the centre of Athens and the liberation of whole blocks for "mild" activities. I mean, the heights of the buildings in central Athens are right the way they are. It's the density that's wrong.


I certainly agree with you on the inept pseudo-development that is taking over Marousi and Kifissia. I must admit travelling down that way, that I see a lot of wasted potential for decent and tactful high rises financial districts. And certainly, La Defence is an excellent example that Athens should follow. However, due to the lack of skyscraperial (you like?) experience, I would question wether Greek architecture is prepared to take some innovativee risks in their designs. But certainly, decommercialisation of central Athens is long overdue.

However, I do insist that central Athens should be targeted for a long term facelift project, fusing it's styles and consolidating it's image as an instantly recognisable city from street level without having to include a glimpse of the Acropolis.

Have you mildened your views or have I just misunderstood you all these years?

And can I say that thank god for the Acropolis, otherwise San Paolo and Athens would be sister cities. That is one of the most horrible pictures of any city I have ever seen.

A long-due answer to one of the most rare, yet one of the most serious participants here:

@ LEX

The question about me having mildened my views is one I asked myself many times. The answer is: Not exactly. I became more "commmunicative" to use an abused term in these times. The truth is I never believed that skyscrapers should have been erected anywhere less than 10 km from the Acropolis. That's why I believe that Maroussi is a phenomenal location. The topography of the place, i.e. a "curb" in an ascending and slopuing terrain, also being behind the Tourkovounia/Attikon Alsos/Philothei hills, allows exactly the construction of buildings up to 160m without them being visible from even the Lycabettus if located to the west of the OTE Head offices building.

At the same time, while going north on Kifissias Avenue, they won't be visible before reaching the level of the Hygeia hospital. Thus, you can have a city which, while preserving its original landscape, on the other, "up there" in Maroussi, and to the east in another curb known as "Elaionas" you can have another cluster. Also, the location in Piraeus mantioned above can be close to a new Business centre in the outskirts of the area known as "Drapetsona".

I have talked with many people about the possibility of building scrapers near or inside the Hellenikon estate once the area turns green. Well, believe it or not I didn't subscribe to that. Athens and the coast offer a tremendous view that cannot be spoiled, unless the density of the structures is very low. In any case also, I wouldn't opt for a high density highrise cluster in Athens for the same reason. Athens has an LA touch and even if at one stage we become maniacs and start building scrapers, they should be properly spaced apart so as to give the image of grandeur instead of compactness...

On the other hand, I always believed and still believed that the scales of construction in many places of Athens do not correspond to the size of the city. Picturesqueness, even when achieved in big cities, when pursued as the only absolute goal where they it is not supposed to, becomes an urban travesty and creates functional problem with the overfragmentation of urban functions into anarchically built small business or housing units. A proper balance must be mantained and for big cities, the notion of "civic pride" that also includes sizeable developments, must, in certain cases go hand-in-hand with "human scales". And I don't believe that the blocks of flats are less inhuman than the skyscrapers of La Defence. Quite the opposite if you asked me...

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429103/0/Athens+-+From+Pendeli+-+5+-+May+2005-+small800x.jpg

http://70.85.81.229/2760/108/emo/worshippy.gif

What an amazing thread, all I can say is thank you very much gm2263, this is a fantastic post, and I appreciate all your effort, I have fowarded this post (crediting you) on another forum, although feel free to repost it yourself, as I feel your post deserves maximum exposure.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

Thank you very much dear Olympiad. Well, now I'm on vacation and I don't go around taking pics, it's rather hot (although I may go to Syggrou Avenue for some complementary shots one of these days, I thing it deserves more exposure :)).

Anyway, thanks for your kind words and if you want, PM me the forum you mentioned this thread, I may have to say a thing or two to inform the participants there. :)

In any case, have a good summer everybody... :):):)

Although working hard in the middle of summer I nicked the time to upload this picture of the Athens tower as seen from Messogeion Avenue.

Enjoy :)

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35743/465153/0/Athens+Tower+14+-+View+from+Messogeion+Avenue-small.jpg

And BTW, I too believe that even for archival purposes this thread should be stickyfied somehow. After all this is a thread is still called skyscrapercity right?
:D

Anyway, enjoy the rest of the summer all of you and I want to say my warm welcome to the newcomers :)
:D

Wonderful trees! I love it! Fantastic stuff Gregory. If only those darn antennas weren't there. Yucky.

A long-due answer to one of the most rare, yet one of the most serious participants here:

@ LEX

The question about me having mildened my views is one I asked myself many times. The answer is: Not exactly. I became more "commmunicative" to use an abused term in these times. The truth is I never believed that skyscrapers should have been erected anywhere less than 10 km from the Acropolis. That's why I believe that Maroussi is a phenomenal location. The topography of the place, i.e. a "curb" in an ascending and slopuing terrain, also being behind the Tourkovounia/Attikon Alsos/Philothei hills, allows exactly the construction of buildings up to 160m without them being visible from even the Lycabettus if located to the west of the OTE Head offices building.

At the same time, while going north on Kifissias Avenue, they won't be visible before reaching the level of the Hygeia hospital. Thus, you can have a city which, while preserving its original landscape, on the other, "up there" in Maroussi, and to the east in another curb known as "Elaionas" you can have another cluster. Also, the location in Piraeus mantioned above can be close to a new Business centre in the outskirts of the area known as "Drapetsona".

I have talked with many people about the possibility of building scrapers near or inside the Hellenikon estate once the area turns green. Well, believe it or not I didn't subscribe to that. Athens and the coast offer a tremendous view that cannot be spoiled, unless the density of the structures is very low. In any case also, I wouldn't opt for a high density highrise cluster in Athens for the same reason. Athens has an LA touch and even if at one stage we become maniacs and start building scrapers, they should be properly spaced apart so as to give the image of grandeur instead of compactness...

On the other hand, I always believed and still believed that the scales of construction in many places of Athens do not correspond to the size of the city. Picturesqueness, even when achieved in big cities, when pursued as the only absolute goal where they it is not supposed to, becomes an urban travesty and creates functional problem with the overfragmentation of urban functions into anarchically built small business or housing units. A proper balance must be mantained and for big cities, the notion of "civic pride" that also includes sizeable developments, must, in certain cases go hand-in-hand with "human scales". And I don't believe that the blocks of flats are less inhuman than the skyscrapers of La Defence. Quite the opposite if you asked me...

Rare indeed, these days very little time is left to browse these forums I'm afraid.

Excellent points, I must say. Can I also add that I'm developing quite a high regard for you visionary Athens. It seems the wavelengths have finally aligned!

Some points however, I too agree Hellenikon must remain unurbanised - these spaces are rare in Athens and to take commercial advantage would be disastrous. However, at the current pace, I am concerned that the 'greenification' may not ever happen. Alli ipothesi omws....

As for the the Athens Tower, sorry gm, I hate it. Whilst I understand the monumental significance it plays in high rise Athenian construction, it used to drive me mad when I used to live in Ambelokipi, so distracting to the eye and providing possibly the worst prelude to the beautiful Vasilissis Sofias.

pff, anything high is good. fullstop. :jk:

First of all, hello everybody, old and new friends here. I simply wish to remind you of the existence of this thread and to make a note of my comeback, after several months of absence.

Unfortunately, due to a number of unfavourable circumstances, it doesn't look like we will see a change in the attitudes of the government towards the construction of tall buildings in Athens until thwe end of this year, as proirities are now set to alleviate the pressures of high oil prices to the economy and I don't think that every minister's dream is to start public discussions on other trivial -in their views- matters right now.

On the other hand, we have some indications that the climate may change, as serious players, especially in the areas of construction and tourism, now include Athens in their expansion plans. I always believed that besides visionary power, it will take the right economic or social pressures that such buildings will be built. 30-storey towers are nt been built just for the sake of vision unless the investors are guaranteed some lucrative returns. True, Athens WILL see an increase in the number AND size of other facilities like shopping malls, the first of which, the "Mall of Athens" with some 60,000 square metres of retail space is due for completion this fall.

Are we to assume that this sheer increase in construction volumes will be translated to additional heights? Are we to assume that the key players will definitely demand thee reconsideration of the absurd building coefficients from certain areas for the sake of highrise commercial developments in approrpiate areas? (definitely NOT close to the Acropolis)

Just wait for me to warm up to start posting some new stuff...

Tall Athens is still a dream :):):)

^^
Are skyscrapers in Athens even an issue in the current governments agenda? Is it talked about very much?

Nice to see you back gm2263.

would the Athens skyline be overgrown if there were no limits? would it be like istanbul?

Guys, i DON'T KNOW, I believe that it MAY become like Istanblue's BUT in any case, it will never overgrow it for obvious reasons.

In any case, I dedicate this picture to ALL the freinds that visited this thread with the promise to post some more in a few days. The pic was taken late at night yesterday from α rooftop apartment (we call, these apartments "retirées" in Greek -ρετιρέ and I don't know why :lol: )

Anywy I took some pics from this friend's apartment but more of them are due to come till the end of the week.

Enjoy: The tower of Athens and Lycabettus Hill, side by side, like NEVER SEEN BEFORE!!! For your eyes only you bunch of nutchos!!!

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35743/475127/0/Athens+Tower+and+Lycabettus.jpg

Και νάσαι καλά Ζορμπά, ευχαριστώ για τα καλά σου λόγια...

oops... double posting...

^^
Are skyscrapers in Athens even an issue in the current governments agenda? Is it talked about very much?

Nice to see you back gm2263.
Actually such things are not the issue of any government in the world. Why does a city have skyscrapers? There are some people who can build them for commercial profits that they have customers to sell their residences and offices. Finance sector needs such a development (mostly big banks need to have all departments at the same headquarter and because of the land prices, they need to rise up). land is expensive or there are less land to build large buildings. Or there is a huge real estate market in this city.

Now, you will think if Athina has all those needs. Or your rich people still like to live at big houses with garden. (hotel is not a good solution, in Istanbul only three hotels are skyscrapers- most of them are residence, office and bank)

Update: Night Views: Also posted in a separate thread here: ----------> http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=264232

1. Athens Tower and Lycabettus Hill, the tallest one in the city (270m)

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35743/479976/0/Athens+Tower+and+Lycabettus+-+small+800X600.jpg


2. Athens Tower (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=110579). Due to the lateness of the hour, only few security lights are on. It is much more spectacular in the early night hours during the winter.

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35743/479975/0/Athens+Tower+16+-+Night+view+from+Goudi.jpg

3. President Hotel rising over rooftops in Ampelokipi - Gizi. I don't know why the neighbourhood looks uglier that what it is in reality here.

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35743/479981/0/President+Hotel+5+-+Night+view+with+Menios+Neighbourhood-small.J


4. A Scene like coming from Gotham city with the President Hotel (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=110582) at a closer look.

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35743/479982/0/President+Hotel+4+-+Night+view+-+small.JPG


5. The Apollo Tower (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=110578), the tallest residential in Athens. Believe it or not, one of the coolest places to live, located at the side of a hill and next to a metro station (Panormou, line 3 - blue) , offers an exceptional view of the city.

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35743/479980/0/Apollo+Tower+7+-+Night+view-small.JPG

6. This is the Athens Expo Centre (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=148979), also accomodating the head offices of the Allianz Insurance company in a number of floors. Not a good picture but anyways worth a look in my view.


http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/35743/479983/0/Allianz+Tower+%26+Athens+Expo+Centre+4+-+Night+view.jpg

And I hope you enjoyed these ones as, with the exception of the Athens tower the rest have never been presented in the web like this.

Actually such things are not the issue of any government in the world. Why does a city have skyscrapers? There are some people who can build them for commercial profits that they have customers to sell their residences and offices. Finance sector needs such a development (mostly big banks need to have all departments at the same headquarter and because of the land prices, they need to rise up). land is expensive or there are less land to build large buildings. Or there is a huge real estate market in this city.

Now, you will think if Athina has all those needs. Or your rich people still like to live at big houses with garden. (hotel is not a good solution, in Istanbul only three hotels are skyscrapers- most of them are residence, office and bank)

It is a matter of government, as current legislation doesn't allow tall buildings like skyscrapers.

View of Athens Tower from President Hotel. I like this pic, but it's not mine. Posted by Greekguy Mike in another thread, but after having seen some editing (needed a bit of contrast and rotation, sorry Mike if this is yours :)) , this is a heck of a shot.

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/40271/488967/0/Athens+Tower+from+President+Hotel-compressed.jpg

This is probably the most informative thread I have ever read on SSC.

Congratulations on a job well done ! :applause: :applause: :applause:

EDIT:

I should also not forget to thank you. I know that creating threads takes time, and this one clearly took a big chunk of your time. Yet you did it for the benefit for everyone on this forum: that is so that people, most of whom you never met, could learn something about your city. I commend you for that !

Thanks for your comments.

Unfortunately, many people here forget about the core essence of the existence of this forum, as well as why it has grown to such an unbelievable extent and this is related to its title: skyscrapercity.

Perhaps I am the only Greek that since exactly 30 years, I live and breathe skyscrapers and I surely enjoy it, and I hope everybody else does so with me. I was the first one ever to have posted pics of highrise Athens and tried to break the image of an entitrely skyscraperless Athens, which was systematically cultivated by the mass media over the last 20 years trying to supposedly preserve Athens from vertical abuse and in their urge to do so, they forgot that once upon a time, few edifices were built that are still stranding, among them the Athens Tower (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=110579) and the Atrina Centre Tower (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=110581) which, for the time of construction are included to the list of the most notable edifices of the southeastern Europe region.

With this thread as well as its predecessor that appeared in this forum's predecessor too, I had the intent to share what I knew about Athenian skyscrapers so that forumers here as well as the visitors to this forum alike, be it from Greece or abroad, to see and understand the absurdity of NOT building good quality, reasonably-sized (not 100 floors of something) towers in Athens in 2005 that could constitute a beautiful addition to the Athenian skyline, especially on locations that wouldn't harm the traditional image of the city which, BTW is nowadays has something like 4,5 million in population and concequently, it spreads dozens of kilometres on all sides from the Acropolis.

I hope, God willing, to be able to contribute to this thread with new intetesting shots and, one day, hopefully soon, to be able to announce the first skyscraper in Athens after many years of inactivity...!!! :)

GM don't worry we are at least two, since I share your feelings; and one of the first thing I would do if I had 200 million dollars is to provide part of my fortune (as an investmente of course hehe, got the passion but also the logics) for the building of a skyscraper in Athens, a 40 stories one would make it.

****sigh*****

For certain, a serious discussion must begin with regards to this type of buildings.

Το μόνο πρόβλημα βέβαια είναι ότι η πολιτικοοικονομική κατάσταση στην Ελλάδα τώρα είναι λίγο μπάχαλο to say the least, οπότε τι ουρανοξύστες και ιστορίες, οι αρμόδιοι υπουργοί τρέχουν με άλλα πράγματα τώρα.

Από καιρού εις καιρόν ακούμε ότι μπορεί να "παίζουν" καταστάσεις με την μεταφορά συντελεστού ή δεν ξέρω κι' εγω τι άλλο, αλλά δεν βλέπω και πολύ σόϊ και την παρούσα κυβέρνηση. Εξάλλου, ο λαός είτε έχει παραδοθεί σε βύθια αναισθησία (βλ. Reality shows) είτε έχει σοβαρότερα πράγματα να σκεφτεί όπως (και δικαίως ) πχ την τσέπη του οπότε, αν παει να γίνει κανένας ουρανοξύστης πολύ φοβούμαι ότι θα βρεθούν κάποιοι έξυπνοι να ύποβάλλουν τις όποιες τοπικές κοινωνίες σε ασκήσεις "επαναστατικής γυμναστικής" που λέγαμε κάποτε... Λες και αν κτιστούν τέτοια κτίρια επί της Αττικής Οδού, ή επί της Λ. Κηφισσού, μακρυά από την Ακρόπολη, θα χάσει η Βενετιά βελόνια... Ισα ίσα που θα προσδώσουν μια νέα δυναμική στο περίγραμμα της Αθήνας το οποίο πέραν της Ακρόπολης, του ΟΑΚΑ και της παραλίας, σε πολλά σημεία θυμίζει επαρχιακή πόλη και όχι διατεινόμενη πρωτεύουσα και μητρόπολη της νοτιοανατολικής Ευρώπης...

Εκτός και αν δεν μας νοιάζει... Αλλά που καιρός για τέτοια τώρα...

Thanks for your comments.

Unfortunately, many people here forget about the core essence of the existence of this forum, as well as why it has grown to such an unbelievable extent and this is related to its title: skyscrapercity.

Perhaps I am the only Greek that since exactly 30 years, I live and breathe skyscrapers and I surely enjoy it, and I hope everybody else does so with me. I was the first one ever to have posted pics of highrise Athens and tried to break the image of an entitrely skyscraperless Athens, which was systematically cultivated by the mass media over the last 20 years trying to supposedly preserve Athens from vertical abuse and in their urge to do so, they forgot that once upon a time, few edifices were built that are still stranding, among them the Athens Tower (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=110579) and the Atrina Centre Tower (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=110581) which, for the time of construction are included to the list of the most notable edifices of the southeastern Europe region.

With this thread as well as its predecessor that appeared in this forum's predecessor too, I had the intent to share what I knew about Athenian skyscrapers so that forumers here as well as the visitors to this forum alike, be it from Greece or abroad, to see and understand the absurdity of NOT building good quality, reasonably-sized (not 100 floors of something) towers in Athens in 2005 that could constitute a beautiful addition to the Athenian skyline, especially on locations that wouldn't harm the traditional image of the city which, BTW is nowadays has something like 4,5 million in population and concequently, it spreads dozens of kilometres on all sides from the Acropolis.

I hope, God willing, to be able to contribute to this thread with new intetesting shots and, one day, hopefully soon, to be able to announce the first skyscraper in Athens after many years of inactivity...!!! :)

Your passion for skyscrapers makes this thread all the better.

I certainly didn't know anything about the skyscrapers in this city, and I hope that things will look better for the development of talls in Athens soon ! :)

I will cry when Athens gets a Skyscraper proposal....tears of joy.
Its so sad seeing Athens as an Inactive city which has the potential to have the greatest skyline in Europe.

Agapite Gm, eimai ekpliktos apo tin topothetisi sou seto zitima twn ouranoxistwn stin Athina. Epeidi opws katalaba eisai poly "psagmenos" kai exeis proodeytikes apopseis tha ithela poly na se rwtisw ti pisteyeis gia to xali twn apaisiwn ktismatwn se oli tin Athina. Giati tha prepei i Athina na fainetai san mia thalassa apo aspra tetragwnismena anebneysta ktiria? Ti ftaiei gi ayto kai blepeis tin katastasi na allazei? Epeisis pisteyeis oti borei sto syntomo mellon na parthoun metra gia na perioristei to xali stin poli me ta amaxia panw sta pezodromia? Aplws zitaw tin gnwmi sou se dyo sxetika diaforetika zitimata giati pisteyw oti ayta ta dyo kanoun tin Athina poly pio asximi.
Filika, Alemo
P.S. To thread pou arxises einai exairetiko. Den einai dynaton i Konstadinoupoli mia toso pio ftwxi poli na exei tosous pollous kai epivlitikous ouranoxistes pou tis dinoun prestige poly megalytero tis Athinas kai exoume ftasei sto simeio se battles "Istanbul vs. Athens" i Konstadimoupoli pou sxedon i misi einai paragkoupoli na xeperanei kata poly tin Athina. Etsi opws pame me ti stenomyalia mas de tha me ekplixei an se liga xronia i Konstadinoupoli metatrapei se mia mitropoli dekaeties brosta tis Athinas ki emeis ginoume o perigelos twn Balkaniwn!

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429118/0/Athens+-+From+Pendeli+-+6+-May+05-small800x.jpg
1968-1980: Τα πρώτα δειλά βήματα: Φωτό δική μου από Πεντέλη

Κατ' αρχην να χαιρετήσω τους καινούριους φίλους, εφόσον φαίνεται ότι το φόρουμ αυτό πλέον θα αποκτήσει πολλους Έλληνες σαν νέα μέλη και τα ωφέλη θα είναι πολλάπλά γιατι θα ανοιχτεί επιτέλους ένας διάλογος επί της ουσίας όπως έχει ανοιχτεί και σε άλλα φόρουμ σχετικά με την αρχιτεκτονική αντίληψη στην Αθήνα αλλά βέβαια και την Ελλάδα γενικότερα.

Κατ' αρχήν να σημειώσω ότι ποτέ δεν είμουνα άκρατος οπαδός των υψηλών κτιρίων για την Αθήνα, με την έννοια χτίστε 100 πατώματα και όποιον πάρει ο χάρος (don't give me ideas though... , cause you never know :D). Αν ας πούμε ερχόταν κάποιος και έλεγε: Αύριο χτίζουμε 70 πατώματα στο Μαρούσι, ναι μεν θα διέτρεχε ένα ρίγος στη ραχοκοκαλλιά μου (μπορεί και να πάθαινα και έμφραγμα από τη συγκίνηση ) αλλά θα έβρισκα το κουράγιο να ρωτήσω: Παιδιά, το σκεφτήκατε καλά; Και τούτο διότι υπάρχουν ερωτήματα και οικονομικής φύσεως (θα γεμίσουν 70 πατώματα από ενοικιαστές/ ιδιοκτήτες; ), και αισθητικής φύσεως (είναι "έτοιμο" το τοπίο να δεχτεί μια τέτοια παρέμβαση; ). Τα ερωτήματα αυτά θα τεθούν όσο υψηλής αισθητικής θα και να είναι αυτό το κτίριο, όσες πολυτέλειες, ανέσεις και ευκολίες και αν παρέχει στους ενοίκους του.

Το δεύτερο μεγάλο ερώτημα είναι: Είναι τα μεγάλα κτίρια μια πανάκεια για τη λύση των προβλημάτων μιας πόλης; Γιατι να χτιστούν στην Αθήνα (και στη Θεσσαλονίκη η/ και στην Πάτρα μεθαύριο ) τέτοια κτίρια; Τα χρειαζόμαστε; Ή, εκεί που είδαμε και πάθαμε να αναπτύξουμε μια αισθητική κριτική απέναντι στο μπετόν των τερατουργημάτων της δεκαετίας του 50-70, ξαφνικά θα ανοίξουμε κερκόπορτες για κάτι πολύ χειρότερο και τερατώδες που θα κάνει τις πόλεις μας μικρογραφίες του Σάο Πάολο (http://www.emporis.com/en/il/im/?id=321418) των 20 σχεδόν εκατομμυρίων της Βραζιλίας ή τα παραθαλάσσια θέρετρα (πχ φανταστείτε τη Σαρωνίδα ) να μοιάζουν με το Benidorm (http://www.emporis.com/en/il/im/?id=265369) της Ισπανίας (κλίκ στους συνδέσμους για φωτογραφιες ).

Η απάντηση φυσικά στα παραπάνω δεν μπορεί να είναι μονοσήμαντη. Αν δείτε (για να αναφερθούμε και στην επικαιρότητα τον καιρό της δημοσίευσης του παρόντος ), ακόμα και στο μαγευτικό Παρίσι, τα περίφημα "προάστεια" του που τούτες τις μέρες καίγονται, έχουν ψηλά κτίρια, αλλά είναι πολυκατοικίες των 10, 20 και βάλε ορόφων όπου η διαβίωση (σε συνδιασμό με τις γενικότερες συνθήκες της περιοχής ) είναι μια κόλαση. Οπότε, αν κάποιος "προσγειωνόταν" στα προάστεια του Παρισιού και δεν ήξερε που βρισκόταν θα νόμιζε ότι βρισκόταν σε μια γιγαντωμένη πόλη της Γαλλόφωνης Αφρικής και φυσικά, θα είχε κάθε λόγο να μισεί το ψηλά κτίρια. Αν όμως ξαφνικά βρισκόταν στη περιοχή της La Defence, η οποία θεωρείται από τις πλέον επιτυχημένες οπτικά επεμβάσεις κατασκευής υψηλών κτιρίων σε μια πόλη, θα του έφευγε το τσερβέλο και, όπως εγώ που είχα δει φωτογραφίες της περιοχής από τα μέσα της δεκαετίας του 70 θα έλεγα "γιατι όχι και στην Αθήνα", όχι βέβαια δίπλα στην Ακρόπολη, αλλά γιατι όχι στο Μαρούσι, στον Ελαιώνα, στη Δραπετσώνα.

Στην αρχή μπορεί να είναι ένα σχετικά ψηλό κτίριο των 30 ή 40 ορόχων και μετά άλλα μικρότερα γύρω του. Δεν πιστεύω ότι η Αθήνα θέλει πάνω από ένα-δυο των 40 ορόφων προς το παρόν (μέχρι το 2015). Ας δούμε πως θα μας "καθήσουν" αυτά και στο μεταξύ, ας χτίσουμε πολλά μικρότερα, από 15-25 πατώματα για να "γεμίσουν" το όποιο "skyline". Μετά βλέπουμε. Απλά γνώμη μου (και γνώμη πολλών άλλων ) είναι το ότι η Αθήνα αυτή τη στιγμή σε πολλα σημεία της μοιάζει με μεγαλοχώρι. Καλή η Πλάκα και τα σουβλάκια, και του Ψυρρή αλλά δεν δίνουν εικόνα οικονομικού κέντρου της Μεσογείου. Όσον αφορά τα υπάρχοντα κτίρια στην Κηφισίας καλά είναι αλλά λόγω των μικρών συντελεστών και οικοπέδων χρησιμοποίησαν πολύ ελεύθερο χώρο και επιπλέον, θα μπορούσαν να είναι και πιό συνεχή στην περίπτωση των μεγάλωνν οικοπέδων έστω και χαμηλά και όχι αυτό το χάλι εν πολλοίς με τα μικρά οικοπεδάκια. Ο ξένος γελάει όταν βλέπει επιγραφές του τύπου "business centre" δίπλα σε τετραώροφα κουτάκια με γυάλινη πρόσοψη στριμογμένα ανάμεσα σε πολυκατοικίες στην οδό Παραδείσου στο Μαρούσι. Όπως επίσης θλίβομαι όταν βλέπω το διώροφο, ναι καλά διαβάσατε, διώροφο κτίριο της Cosmote (http://www.emporis.com/en/il/im/?id=330542) επί του κόμβου Αττικής Οδού- Κηφισίας :lol:. Μα... αν δεν χτίσεις εκεί τα 20 ή έστω 10 πατώματα με την άπλα που έχει, που θα τα χτίσεις βρε ευλογημένε; Και βλέπω στους Αμπελοκήπους κάτι δημόσια κτίρια των 8 και 10 ορόφων (όπως είναι το υπουργείο Τουρισμού ) χωμένα σε κάτι στενάκια που δεν τα βλέπει ΚΑΝΕΝΑΣ και απορώ.

Δεν είναι το θέμα τα ψηλά κτίρια παιδιά αλλά η αισθητική που τα διέπει και οι συμβολισμοί που εκφράζονται μέσω αυτών και τα προβλήματα που λύνουν με τη σωστη χρήση τους. Και λέω "χρήση τους" γιατι πιστευω ότι πέρα από όλα τα άλλα τα ψηλά κτίρια, όπως και τα χαμηλά κτίρια που μας πήρε ο διάολος με δαύτα στην Αθήνα, είναι ένα εργαλείο. Αν το χρησιμοποιήσεις καλά όπως στη La Defence, στο Canary Wharf στο Λονδίνο, ή -απίστευτο!!!- στη Βιέννη (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/39/T-mobil_center_wien.jpg/800px-T-mobil_center_wien.jpg) (κλίκ για να δείτε απίστευτη φωτό από την όχι και τόσο γνωστή πλευρά της παραμυθένιας αυτής πόλης ) ή - ναι- στην Κωνσταντινούπολη και μην ακούτε τι σας λένε ήμουνα εκεί και τα είδα αυτοπροσωπως, τότε πλάϊ τις κλασικές ομορφιές της πολης σου στο ιστορικό κέντρο, εφόσον όλες οι πόλεις στην Ευρώπη έχουν ιστορικό κέντρο σε αντίθεση με πολλές νέες πόλεις πχ στη Β. Αμερική που αν τους πάρεις τους ουρανοξύστες ΔΕΝ έχουν τιποτα άλλο να επιδείξουν, τότε και προστατεύεις την όποια παράδοση σου αλλά και ταυτόχρονα περνάς το μύνημα ότι η πόλη συνεχίζει με δυναμισμό την πορεία της προς το μέλλον. Κάτι ανάλογο δηλαδή με τους Ολυμπιακούς αγώνες και τις επεμβάσεις του Καλατράβα που όσο και αν τις κατακρίνουν ορισμένοι, το μέλλον θα δείξει ότι θα αποτελέσουν ένα νέο εφαλτήριο ανάπτυξης αν φερθούμε έξυπνα.

Τώρα σχετικά με τι πρέπει να γίνει για την Αθήνα τα γράφω στην 1η σελίδα αυτού του thread. Αναφορικά με την παλιατσαρία (που έτυχε να περάσω απο τη Λ. Καβάλας την Κυριακή και έφριξα), από ότι βλέπω, πλησιάζει η νομοτελειακή στιγμη που όλα αυτά τα σκουπίδια θα αρχίσουν να γκρεμίζονται, ιδίως όταν η οικονομία θα πάρει τα πάνω της. Ήδη ανακοινώθηκε η μεταφορά του γηπέδου του Παναθηναϊκού στον Ελαιώνα, καθαρίζεται η περιοχή του "γκαζιού" από την παλιατσαρία κοκ. Πιστεύω ότι σε λίγα χρόνια θα αρχίσουν οι πρώτες σκέψεις για την Κυψέλη και τις πιο αστικές περιοχές της Αθήνας.

Όσον αφορά την Κωνσταντινούπολη, μπορεί να έχει όντως πολλή παλιατσαρία αλλά είναι μάγκες οι Τούρκοι, και ας ξέρω πως με αυτή τη δηλωση μου μπορεί να πέσουν όλοι να με φάνε. Παιδιά ας κάνουμε ένα διαχωρισμό: Αν περιμένουμε να φτιάξουμε την Κυψέλη και τα Λιόσια και μετά να χτίσουμε ουρανοξύστες και κτίρια ποιότητας να στεγάσουμε τους μελλοντικούς και νυν επενδυτές ή άλλους απαιτητικούς χρήστες και να ανταγωνιστούμε τους βαλκανικούς μας γείτονες (και βάλτε μέσα και πόλεις σαν το Βελιγράδι ή τα Τίρανα-που χτίζονται με δικά μας λεφτά!!!, τη Σόφια, το Βουκουρέστι, γιατι περι πολέμου πόλεων πρόκειται αν το καταλάβατε ), βράσε όρυζα. Το σωστό είναι να δημιουργήσουμε μια νέα Αθήνα (πού ούτως ή άλλως δημιουργείται εκεί ψηλά, στην Αττική οδό και Κηφισάς ή δειλά-δειλά κατα μήκος της Λ. Κηφισού ) και να αρχίζουμε σιγά-σιγά να παίζουμε μπάλα.

Και ναι, τα αποτελέσματα Αθήνα Vs Kωνσταντινούπολη (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=277075&page=1&pp=20) μπορεί και εμένα να με πίκραναν (όπως όχι τόσο η εμπάθεια των Τούρκων αλλά των άλλων περιέργων Εβραίων, Κροατών, Αλβανων και τρέχα-γύρευε που κάθε φορά ξεπετάγονται λες από το πουθενά να ρίξουν δηλητήριο ) αλλά θεωρώ ότι ηταν δίκαιο λόγω τοποθεσίας και βιτρίνας να κερδίσει η Κ/Πολη. Σίγουρα έχουμε και εμείς πολυ καταπληκτικά σημεία, αλλά δυστυχώς all-round η Πόλη έπρεπε να μας ρίξει έστω γύρω σε αναλογία 80-70 και όχι στο θλιβερό αποτέλεσμα που είδα το οποίο ήταν εν πολλοίς χαλκευμένο από πολλές ανθελληνικές ψήφους. Και πρίν με αρπάξετε από τα μάτια, σκεφτείτε ψυχραιμα, και ναι, οι ουρανοξύστες και οι γέφυρες και το μέγεθος παίζουν κάποιο ρόλο. Δυστυχώς. Η Πόλη έχει (και στο μέλλον θα έχει ακόμα πιό πολλά ) τοπόσημα που αντιστοιχούν στον απαιτούμενο πλούτο μιας πολης εκατομμυρίων κατοίκων και οι όψεις της βιτρίνας της από ψηλά είναι αξιοπρεπέστατες πλέον. Εμείς, έχουμε μεν μια Ακρόπολη αλλά δεν αρκεί. Το χάλι των κοντοστούπικων και στριμωγμένων, σχεδόν πατικομένων τσιμεντένιων πολυκατοικιών στις κάρτ-ποστάλ με την ένδειξη "modern Athens" μου προκαλεί ναυτία. Η Πόλη έχει και παραλίες, και ουρανοξύστες στο αντίστοιχο "Μαρούσι" της και οτιδήποτε θα πάμε να δείξουμε στον ξένο πλήν υποδομών, αρχαιοτήτων και Ολυμπιακών εγκαταστάσεων, αυτή ήδη το έχει.

Λυπάμαι πάρα μα πάρα πολύ αλλά εικόνες όπως αυτή (http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/8676/levent24xd.jpg) και αυτή (http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/36693/475709/0/Istanbul+Levent+19-From+Metrocity+Night.jpg) κερδίζουν άνετα τις εντυπώσεις και πείθουν τον έξω κόσμο περισσότερο από τα μεζεδοπωλεία, και την τσίκνα του Ψυρρή (πού και η Πόλη έχει τέτοια και πολύ καλά μάλιστα ). Όπως έλεγαν και οι αρχαίοι ημών πρόγονοι: Κατούτο ποιείν, κακείνο μη αφιέναι. Όπως είχε ήδη γράψει ένας φίλος σε άλλο φόρουμ: "Είχα πάει για επαγγελματικό ταξίδι στην Πόλη το 1996 (πρό μετρό, αεροδρομίου καιμ Ολυμπιακών δηλαδή ) και γύρισα με μια αίσθηση πικρας διότι η Αθήνα έμοιαζε μπροστά της μια επαρχιακή πόλη. Το ξέρω για τα χαλάσματα αλλά όπως και σε κάθε μεγαλούπολη ακόμα και της δύσης, τα έχουν κρύψει. Απλά, η επιστροφή από το (τότε καινούριο δικό τους ) αεροδρόμιο τους στο Ελληνικό μου άφησε μια πικρή γεύση στο στόμα".

Τα παραπάνω δεν σημαίνουν ότι είμαστε και για πέταμα. Σημαίνουν όμως την ανάγκη αυτοκριτικής και ανασκουμποματος για σκληρή δουλειά. Είμαστε σε θέση να ανταποκριθούμε στις προκλήσεις; Τότε, σε πέντε μόλις χρόνια το "Τime" θα γράφει "Post-Olympic Athens: The next must-see mediterranean destination". Αλλιώς, θα μας παίρνουν οι γείτονες τα σώβρακα με πίστες φόρμουλα 1 και ουρανοξύστες και εμείς απλά θα βρίζουμε στα φόρουμ δείχνωντας την 54768893564ή φωτογραφία της Ακρόπολης, των οπισθίων της κάθε Χέλγκας στην Πλάκα ή τα καταρρέοντα στάδια των Ολυμπιακών αγώνων που δεν βρέθηκε κάποιος με στοιχειώδη εγκέφαλο να βάλει ένα κιόσκι και εισητήριο έστω 5 ευρώ ναι να τους βάζει να τα δούνε την πρώτη επέτειο των άκρως επιτυχημένων αγώνων του 2004 και ερχόταν οι ξένοι και έπεφταν πάνω σε νεοελληνικά συρματοπλέγματα και βλοσυρούς και βαριεστημένους αστυφύλακες να τους κλείνουν το δρόμο. Ντροπή!!!!!

Πιστευω ότι το μέλλον της Αθήνας (και δυνητικά της Θεσσαλονίκης ) όσον αφορά τα κτίρια γραφείων (και γιατι όχι και πολυτελών κατοικιών σε επιλεγμένες περιπτώσεις ) είναι και πρός τα πάνω. Δεν είναι ανάγκη να γίνουμε Χόνγκ Κονγκ αλλά αρκετά με την εικόνα του αχταρμά των 5 εκατομμυρίων που μοιάζει με μεγαλοχώρι. Αξίζουμε κάτι καλύτερο και υψηλότερο.

Υπάρχει θέληση;

Υπάρχει όραμα;

ALL OUT FOR A TALL ATHENS!!!!

σε διαβάζω προσεκτικά και εδώ και στο stadia.gr και συμφωνώ παντελώς μαζί σου
το θέμα των ψηλών κτιρίων πρέπει να τεθεί βέβαια σε μία γενικότερη βάση μιας νέας αρχιτεκτονικής, μιας νέας urbanisation των ελληνικών πόλεων....

απαλλαγμένοι από τον βραχνά της αντιπαροχής-που πάντως είχε και τα καλά του, της μη γκετοποίησης των μεγάλων ελληνικών πόλεων, των ανθρώπινων σχετικά συνθηκών ζωής όσο τουλάχιστον οι πόλεις δεν είχαν ακόμα γιγαντωθεί (ειδικά η Αθήνα ) - πρέπει να δώσουμε νέα εναύσματα για μία καλύτερη εικόνα των πόλεων μας....

υπάρχουν και ταλαντούχοι έλληνες αρχιτέκτονες-όπως υπήρξαν και στο παρελθόν, μόνο που πρέπει να τους αφήσουμε ελευθερία στο δημιουργείν. Τα πάντα βέβαια είναι και συνάρτηση του παράγοντα κόστους και η μία ή η άλλη ιδέα για τούτον τον λόγο δεν μπόρεσε να υλοποιηθεί

εκείνο που μου έρχεται στο μυαλό βλέποντας την εικόνα της Αθήνας και των άλλων μεγάλων μας πόλεων από ψηλά, είναι η σχεδόν παντελής έλλειψη ζωτικού χώρου και η πυκνή, ασφυκτική δόμηση. Εάν ζητάτε την γνώμη μου, υπάρχουν περιοχές μέσα στην Αθήνα πού σχεδόν κάθε δεύτερη οικοδομή πρέπει να πέσει.....
περπατώντας στους δρόμους συναντά πάντως κανείς και όμορφα παραδείγματα πολυκατοικιών-μοντερνισμοί, νεοκλασικά, bauhaus-πού όμως χάνονται και δεν αναδεικνύονται μέσα στον γενικότερο ¨αχταρμά¨

στο θέμα των υψηλών κτιρίων όπως σωστά ανέφερες, πρέπει να εξεταστεί το οικονομικό/πρακτικό όφελος σε συνάρτηση με το κόστος.....π.χ. να μην μείνουν λόγω τιμών ενοικίων τα μισά γραφεία άδεια. Και όπως όλοι ξέρουμε ναι η Αθήνα στερείται μεγάλου αριθμού εταιριών, υπηρεσιών πού θα την καθιστούσαν οικονομικό κέντρο μεγάλης εμβέλειας. Μέσα όμως στα πλαίσια μιας γενικής οικονομικής ανάπτυξης πρέπει κανείς να κοιτάξει στο μέλλον-και όντως οι μεγάλες εταιρίες προτιμούν πάντα για τις έδρες ή τα παραρτήματά τους τόπους με τις ανάλογες υλικοτεχνικές υποδομές.
Στην λύση των υψηλών οικοδομών, ως κατοικία βέβαια δεν συμφωνώ και έναν από τους λόγους τον βλέπουμε αυτήν τη στιγμή στο Παρίσι

Έτσι λοιπόν ναι μεν στη δημιουργία καλαίσθητων υψηλών κτιρίων, αλλά οι μελέτες με προσοχή και όχι βεβιασμένα-παρά το όποιο κατασκευαστικό μπουμ θα επιφέρει μία τέτοια ενέργεια-και πρόβλέψη ζωτικών χώρων και περισσότερου πρασίνου, γιατί αυτά είναι τελικά που συνιστούν την ποιότητα ζωής σε μία πόλη....

Μα αλοίμονο μας αν δεν αφήσουμε χώρο ανάμεσα σε αυτα τα οικοδομήματα, καταστραφήκαμε! Αν και έστω καθυστερημενα, αυτού του είδους η αρχιτεκτονική γοήτρου των ψηλών εταιρικών κτιρίων προϋποθέτει πολλούς ελεύθερους χώρους ακόμα και στους κολωβούς κλώνους τους που βλέπουμε στα βόρεια Αθηναϊκά προάστεια.

Εξάλλου, θα είναι τέτοιος ο δημόσιος έλεγχος (δίαβαζε αγωνιούντες "περίοικοι", "δημοκράτες" αρχιτέκτονες, λοιποί τρεχαγυρευόπουλοι ή/ και κοινοί εκβιαστές "δώσε-μου-€10000-αλλοιώς-σε-πάω-στο-Συμβούλιο-της-Επικρατείας-και-καλά-ξεμπερδέματα αλλα και καλοί κ'αγαθοι στις προθέσεις τους άνθρωποι ) που δεν θα τολμήσει κανένας κατασκευαστής εύκολα να κάνει αυθαιρεσίες. Παιδιά το να "κλέψεις" σε πενταώροφη μισό μέτρο γίνεται. Σε 25 πατώματα θα πρέπει να είναι κραυγαλέα η παρανομία και με βάση την ιδεοληπτική ευαισθησία που έχουμε κατα των ψηλών κτιρίων στην Ελλάδα, δύσκολα την κάνεις την απάτη εφόσον ξέρεις ότι όλα τα βλέματα θα είναι στραμένα πάνω σου.

Βέβαια, όλα τα παραπάνω ασχετα αν με την υπερβολή που μας διακρίνει, όλες οι μεγάλες κατασκευαστικές θα τρέξουν να κάνουν και από ένα τέτοιο κτίριο για λόγους γοήτρου με αποτέλεσμα σε καμμιά 10ρια χρόνια να είναι στο Μαρούσι ένα μίνι-μανχάταν (λέμε τώρα :D). Και τελικά λέμε-λέμε ότι δεν υπάρχει χώρος αλλά αν πάτε κατα Εθνική-Αττική Οδό Κηφισίας και δε συμμαζεύεται, παίζουν πολλοί χώροι.

Άραγε θα τολμήσει η πολιτεία ή κανένας άλλος;

Yparxei omos esto kai i paramikri uponoia ekdilosis apeiroelaxistoy endiaferontos pou na dikaiologoun tin ANAGH tin emporiki, yparxis tetoion ktirion ? OK, antilambanomai to "trogontas erxetai i orexi" kai pos mellontikoi ependytes (leme tora) tha theloun polyorofa ktiria, ti symbainei omos otan - TRAGIKO - ktiria san ayto pou mas edeixes prosfata gm, menoun ksenoikiasta ???
Kai otan i cosmote pou einai "kollosos" gia ta balkanika dedomena, stegazetai se diorofo ??? An ena diorofo kalyptei tis "anages" tis cosmote stin perioxi ekeini, poios o logos enos "ouranoxysti ?" (kai meta bebaia aporeis pos sti Leykosia yparxoun kati MEGATHRIA tis Trapezas Kyprou - poios ta gemizei ekeina ? otan oloi ki oloi einai kato apo 700.000 ). Ayto einai ena paradoxo pou den mporo na to katalabo.

To tragiko einai pos akoma kai TORA akougontai fones (apo SYN) gia to "FARAONIKOU TYPOU STEGASTRO CALATRAVA" pou itan en telei i TAYTOTHTA ton agonon kai nai TAYTISTHKAN me to stegastro kai nai epikoinoniaka itan APOLYTOS APARAITHTO NA GINEI (asxetos an itan ena epikoinoniako disaster to na olisthainei stin teliki thesi stis 20 Iouliou !). H de Pezogefyra itan entelos astoxi afou den afomoionetai sto eyrytero periballon oute ARMONIKA oute esto RIZOSPASTIKA. Den prosaptei, den prosdidei, enniote DEN leitourgei kan (bl. astoxia ylikou, to xylo na sapizei etc).

Se ayti tin poli, den exoume synithisei na blepoume ta ktiria. Mono ta prospername. Den exei anaptyxthei ston meso Athinaio to saraki tou na stamatisei kai na thaymasei to oraio, to psilo, to prestigious .... mas exei synthlipsei i polykatoikia, to steno dromaki kai i ennoia mas oli einai na broume parking PANO sto pezodromio. Kai na xefygoume pros paraliaki gia aera kathe savvatokyriako....

Me eksairesi tous stathmous tou metro pou gia PROTH FORA eida na yparxei merimna gia tin aisthitiki tous me mikres i' megales parembaseis ( ki ekei fainetai telika pos leitourgei to "omorfo" akoma kai stoys pio "apaideytous" anthropous ...ki o pio anideos antilambanetai to politismiko shock apo tis apobathres kai ta "erga texnis" stous stathmous .... me tin exodo stin ... DAFNH as poume !) otan mas dothike i eykairia gia PAREMBASEIS, mas proekypsan ... OMONOIA me tis elies stis glastres kata ti diarkeia ton Olympiakon !!!???? Akoma kai to leitourgiko aerodromio den payei na einai exairetika anempneysto !

Makari ta nea ktiria (mouseio Akropolis, stegi grammaton, i lyriki OPOTE ginei) na dosoun neo aera (opos to Mpenaki stin peiraios), na proteinoun kati diaforetiko ....

Omos oi "ouranoxystes" mesa stin oikonomiki yfesi, akoma kai an pote meta apo gero lobbying texnokraton kai anthropon san esena gm, xeperastei o skopelos me toys syntelestes ..... poies anages tha kalypsoun ?

Bebaia tha mou peis, an mia poli 4ekatommyrion, Olympic host, megalytero limani tis mesogeioy (ena apo..), melos tis EU, DEN exei zitisi gia ena mikro ypotypodes cluster tote .... ti tha ginei otan o enas meta ton allo oloi oi balkanioi geitones mas ginoun meli tis EU. Otan doume ta prota clusters sta Tirana kai otan tha pneei "eyropaikos" aeras sta nea meli ? Emeis tha exoume HDH ginei mia kourasmeni eyropaiki poli pou pote den egine mitropoli ?

PS - Sokaristiki i eikona tis Biennis pou mas edoses. Katarriptetai ek neou o mythos oti mono oi megales poleis mporoun na exoun ouranoxystes (ki enteinetai to paradoxo pou legame).

PS - kala gia tous geitones , ti na piaseis kai ti na afiseis. POs petyxan OLIKH EPANAFORA meta tin sxedon pliri katareysi tis oikonomias tous, xoris KPS etc ..pos oi mikres tous poleis exoun kai metro kai tram, xoris KPS, pos otan syriknonetai i Olympiaki kai tha petaei maximum mexri Londino, o dikos tous aerometaforeas (pou EPISHS einai nomizo amigos dimosiou xaraktira) entasei 23 neous proorismous to neo etos ki petaei kyriolektika stis 5 ipeirous kai exei patageleis 40+ neon aeroskafon...Emeis kai AKOMA den exoume syndesi me Tokyo i' Pekino (pou mas to zitane kiolas !). Anywayz .......

Φίλτατε Poliochni,

Νάσαι καλά, τι να σου πώ βρε φίλε με έφτιαξες

Bebaia tha mou peis, an mia poli 4ekatommyrion, Olympic host, megalytero limani tis mesogeia (ena apo..), melos tis EU, DEN exei zitisi gia ena mikro ypotypodes cluster tote .... ti tha ginei otan o enas meta ton allo oloi oi balkanioi geitones mas ginoun meli tis EU. Otan doume ta prota clusters sta Tirana kai otan tha pneei "eyropaikos" aeras sta nea meli ? Emeis tha exoume HDH ginei mia kourasmeni eyropaiki poli pou pote den egine mitropoli ?


Επειδή έχω όρεξη σήμερα κάτσε και διάβασε, κλίκ στους συνδεσμους:


-Τίρανα, καλομελέτα κι' έρχεται (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=248296)... και με Ελληνικά χρηματα μάλιστα. Τα πρώτα 15όροφα έχουν αρχίσει και σηκώνονται. Βέβαια θα μου πείς αυτό δεν αρκεί και θα συμφωνήσω. Αλλά (πήγαινε στον αστερισκο * για συνέχεια )

-Βελιγράδι (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=244741&page=4&pp=20), Σεράγεβο (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=240382), Βαρσοβία, καλά, ΑΥΤΟΙ ΚΙ' ΑΝ ΜΑΣ ΠΗΡΑΝ ΤΑ ΣΩΒΡΑΚΑ (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=67412) :lol:, θυμάστε που κάποτε είχαμε και Πολωνούς μετανάστες στην Ελλάδα; μην τους ψάχνετε, γύρισαν πίσω :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
-Λοιπές δημοκρατικές δυνάμεις (http://skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=371) πού λέγαμε κάποτε, όρεξη (και bandwidth :D) νάχετε...

(*) Βέβαια ξέρω, μπλά μπλά μπλά, τι να μας πούνε που ακόμα δεν έχουν φως, νερό τηλέφωνο, (είστε σίγουροι; ) που είναι σε πρωτόγονη κατασταση (για πόσο-και αν είναι, επαναλαμβάνω είστε σίγουροι; ) κλπ κλπ κλπ. Και για να σας τσιγκλίσω λίγο ακόμα, το ξέρετε ότι ένα κτίριο 25 ορόφων του Σεράγεβο που είχε βομβαρδιστεί (το κτίριο της Ραδιοτηλεόρασης; ) ξαναχτίζεται με χρήματα του Ελληνικού κράτους; Ε, ρε γλέντια...

Και θα μου πείτε, σιγά μην... γίνουν άνθρωποι οι Αλβανοί/ Σλάβοι, κλπ κλπ. Για σκεφτείτε όμως βρε παιδιά, πως έφτιαξε, όπως πανθομολογούμενα έφτιαξε, η Πόλη;

Από το 1990 και μετά, σου λέει είμασταν που είμασταν χάλια, ας πιάσουμε μια στρατηγική περιοχή και ας την αναπτύξουμε. Και έτσι τσούκου-τσούκου, από το 1990 (τέλη της δεκαετίας του 80 για την ακρίβεια...) άρχισαν σιγά σιγά και εχτιζαν, και δε μιλάω για commieblocks που και εκεί υπάρχουν, αλλά για αεροδρόμια, μετρό, κτίρια, κυρίως κτίρια. Έτσι, κάποια στιγμή, βρεθήκαμε το 1995 να είμαστε χωρίς μετρό και αεροδρόμιο και οι γείτονες να τα έχουν έτοιμα. Βρεθήκαμε το 2000 (τότε είχαμε τη μεγαλύτερη διαφορά από την Πόλη ) να μοιάζει η Αθήνα με μεγαλοχώρι και οι γείτονες να μιλάνε για δεύτερη γενεά ουρανοξυστών. Αχ, νάναι καλά οι Ολυμπιακοί...

Θα μου πείς εχει σχέση αυτό με τα ανθρώπινα δικαιώματα; έχει σχέση με τις διαφορές μας; πρόκειται εμείς να χτίσουμε κτίρια 200μ ύψους; Όχι βέβαια. Το ξέρετε όμως ότι το 1971 που τελείωσε ο Πύργος των Αθηνών ήταν το ψηλώτερο κτίριο των Βαλκανίων; Ε, λοιπόν το ξέρω πως μπορούμε να ζήσουμε και χωρίς ουρανοξύστες όπως μπορούσαμε να ταξιδεύουμε και από το Ελληνικό και όσοι πήγαιναν Κ/πολη πρίν το 2001 να ντρέπονται για αυτή τη διαφορά. Το ξέρω πως μπορούμε να συνεχίσουμε να ζουμε με τα πενταώροφα κυβάκια της Κηφισίας, αλλά δεν θα ήταν καλύτερο κάτι ψηλώτερο και μεγαλύτερο;

Παιδιά, εμένα απλά με ενοχλεί αυτού του είδους η παράλογη υστέρηση. Οταν οι Αλβανοί θα μας ξεπεράσουν (έστω και κατα 1 μέτρο...) στο ύψος τι θα πούμε;

Θα μου πείς υπάρχουν και άλλα πράγματα από το ύψος. Ναί σίγουρα, κάποιοι δρόμοι μας (βασικά η Αττική Οδός ) μετράνε. Αλλά ξέρετε τι εχουν πεί άσχετοι φίλοι μου (Ελληνες, μην τρομάζετε ).

"καλοί οι δρόμοι αλλά τι σκάρτα κτίρια είναι στις άκρες τους βρε παιδι μου, πως την κάναμε αυτή την πόλη έτσι..."

Και πέστε μου, ... όταν είδατε το ΟΑΚΑ δια χειρός Καλατράβα δεν νιώσατε κάτι, κάτι βρε παιδί μου; Δεν παει νάτανε Ισπανού (την ξέρω την ένσταση ) , δεν νοιώσατε κάτι άλλο; ε, αυτό λέγεται στα Αγγλικά "urban pride" και γι' αυτό μιλαω. Και να με συγχωρείτε, ΔΕΝ αρκεί η Ακρόπολη για τα δεδομένα της Αθήνας, δεν μπορεί να μας ξελασπώνει μόνη της... πλέον.

Το ξέρουμε όλοι μας βαθειά μέσα μας αυτό, ό,τι κι'αν απαντάμε σε ανεγκέφαλους ανθέλληνες ή διάφορα trolls κατα καιρούς.

Πιστευω ότι το μέλλον της Αθήνας (και δυνητικά της Θεσσαλονίκης ) όσον αφορά τα κτίρια γραφείων (και γιατι όχι και πολυτελών κατοικιών σε επιλεγμένες περιπτώσεις ) είναι και πρός τα πάνω.

Gm ίσως αυτό το δυνητικά θα μπορούσε να αφαιρεθεί και από τη Θεσσαλονίκη, αν η Αθήνα δείχνει μεγαλοχώρι, η Θεσσαλονίκη σε σχέση με τη σημασία της και το μέγεθός της δείχνει απλά...χωριό. Μακάρι η θρυλούμενη παρέμβαση Καλατράβα στο κέντρο να αναμορφώσει την πόλη. Θα τον αφήσουν όμως; Ήδη οι πρώτες φωνές της "τοπικής κοινωνίας" μιλάνε για "αλλοίωση του χαρακτήρα της πόλης" για τον πύργο 100 και μέτρων που προβλέπει μέσα στη θάλασσα η μελέτη Καλατράβα. Βλέπετε πρέπει στον αιώνα τον άπαντα να μείνει αποτυπωμένος στον επισκέπτη ως χαρακτήρας της πόλης ο... Λευκός Πύργος.

Ναι πιστεύω ότι και η Θεσσαλονίκη, μια πόλη πέραν του ενός εκατομμυρίου κατοίκων έχει το δικαίωμα να έχει κτίρια ψηλότερα των 12 ορόφων που είναι τώρα τα υψηλότερα που έχει!

Δεν κάνουμε κανένα σύλλογο λέω εγώ και μετά μανιφέστο στις εφημερίδες; Πλάκα θάχει... :banana:

agαpιte gm, exeis skeftei pote na prospathiseis na dimosiopoiiseis to arthro se kamia efimerida? Isws na endiaferontai kapoies efimerides na baloun kapoio tetoio arthro se kana entheto (p.x. opws to "E" tis Eleftherotypias). Den xerw bebaia kata poso tha itan eykolo ayto to egxeirima, alla tha aksize ton kopo na to prospathiseis, de nomizeis?

Το ίδιο το άρθρο θέλει πολλές αλλαγές για να είναι δημοσιεύσιμο αλλά σίγουρα μια συνεπτυγμένη μορφή του άρθρου θα μπορούσε να μπεί κάπου. Βέβαια μην περιμένετε να μπούνε όλες οι φωτογραφίες, 5-6 το πολύ και ευτυχώς τις έχω και σε μέγεθος 5mpixel οπότε μπορούν να μπούνε κάπου και ίσως μια δυο σε αξιοπρεπές μέγεθος.

Το θέμα είναι ότι με την περίεργη ιδεοληψία που μας διακατέχει, πιθανόν το θέμα να μην είναι τόσο "πιασάρικο" όσο άλλα. Και πάλι όμως έχεις δίκιο, ίσως όχι τόσο η "Ελευθεροτυπία" όσο καμμιά "Καθημερινή", να ενδιαφερόταν.

Αλλά βέβαια, όπως έχω γράψει πιό πάνω, υπάρχουν άλλα πράγματα που μπορεί να καίνε τον κοσμάκη τώρα, όπως είναι η ακρίβεια και η ανέχεια, πράγμα που αυξάνει την εσωστρέφεια. Δηλαδή τη στιγμή που ο άλλος έχει οικονομικά προβλήματα (δηλαδή ο ένας στους δύο μας μηδ' εμού εξαιρουμένου ) δεν θα κάτσει να ασχοληθεί με ψηλά κτίρια. Εξάλλου, ο Ελληνας μόνο πρόσφατα άρχισε να νοιώθει υπερήφανος για τα αστικά επιτεύγματα της χώρας του. Πρίν, επιχειρούσε την απόδραση από την πόλη κατα τα εαρταστικά τριήμερα για να νοιώσει ευχάριστα. Για αυτόν το ψηλό (οτιδήποτε δηλαδή σύμφωνα με την κρατούσα ιδεοληψία είναι πάνω από 5 πατώματα ) δεν σήμαινε το "μεγαλειώδες" αλλά το "αποπνικτικό", εφόσον, βέβαια, είχε συνηθίσει σχετικά ψηλά κτίρια πάνω από δρομάκια. Δεν έχει δεί ο Έλληνας ποιότητα στο δημόσιο χώρο όπου το ψηλό κτίριο σε συνδιασμό με τον ελεύθερο χώρο επιτείνει την ψυχική ανάταση, εφόσον ακόμα και οι "πλάζες" που υπάρχουν σε κτιριακά συγκροτήματα στην Αθήνα είναι ελάχιστες.

Η πλάκα επίσης είναι ότι πέρα από μερικά σκόρπια άρθρα (και μάλιστα και από τα νέα, πηγαίνετε στην πρώτη σελίδα του παρόντος θέματος στο τέλος της αρχικής δημοσίευσης ), το θέμα δεν έχει απασχολήσει εκτενώς τον Ελληνικό τύπο οπότε μπορεί να υπάρχει κάποιο ενδιαφέρον.

Α, και τι λέγαμε για τα Τίρανα στην προηγούμενη σελίδα;

Για κοιτάξτε ΕΔΩ (http://skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=6245861&postcount=9) και κουνήστε λίγο ακόμα το κεφάλι σας. Από ότι βλέπω, το σώβρακο μου είναι στη θέση του και ελπίζω και ολονών μας, δεν μας τα πήραν ακόμα, αλλά για πόσο ακόμα; Απλά, παιδιά, όσο εμείς ομφαλοσκοπούμε (γιατι κατα βάθος ΔΕΝ αγαπάμε την Ελλάδα αλλά την Πάρτη μας με Π κεφαλαίο ), οι άλλοι προχωράνε. Και κάτσε μη γίνει κανένα Αθήνα Vs Τίρανα και γελάσει και το παρδαλό κατσίκι. Βρε το ξέρω ότι η Αθήνα είναι καλύτερη αλλά λίγο οι φωτογραφίες, λίγο ο υφέρπων ανθελληνισμός των αποκομμάτων της ιστορίας εδώ πέρα, λίγο ο υπερβάλλον ζήλος ορισμένων και άντε να αποδείξεις ότι δεν είσαι ελέφαντας. Όχι ότι τα Τιρανα μας απειλούν ακόμα βέβαια, αλλά οι ανταγωνίστριες πόλεις στην περιοχή προχωρούν σαν τον μέρμηγκα, δεν περιμένουν πότε θα σηκωθούμε από την ομφαλοσκόπηση μας πάνω στον καναπέ της προγονολατρίας μας. Όπως έγινε και με την Κωνσταντινούπολη, λίγο-λίγο και με υπομονή. Και χωρίς ΚΠΣ που έλεγε και ο Poliochni, αυτό μεγάλε έγραψε !!! :).

Στο κάτω κάτω οι αρχαίοι σπαρτιάτες έλεγαν

"Αμες δε γ' εσόμεθα πολλώ κάρρωνες".

Εμείς τι λέμε; "Φράγκα, Γκόμενες Παλάτια"; (Περιοδικό MAX μέσα δεκαετίας του 90)

Για ξαναδέστε τις φωτογραφίες και κουνήστε το κεφάλι σας λίγο... :D

Α, και τι λέγαμε για τα Τίρανα στην προηγούμενη σελίδα;

Για κοιτάξτε ΕΔΩ (http://skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=6245861&postcount=9) και κουνήστε λίγο ακόμα το κεφάλι σας. Από ότι βλέπω, το σώβρακο μου είναι στη θέση του και ελπίζω και ολονών μας, δεν μας τα πήραν ακόμα, αλλά για πόσο ακόμα; Απλά, παιδιά, όσο εμείς ομφαλοσκοπούμε (γιατι κατα βάθος ΔΕΝ αγαπάμε την Ελλάδα αλλά την Πάρτη μας με Π κεφαλαίο ), οι άλλοι προχωράνε. Και κάτσε μη γίνει κανένα Αθήνα Vs Τίρανα και γελάσει και το παρδαλό κατσίκι. Βρε το ξέρω ότι η Αθήνα είναι καλύτερη αλλά λίγο οι φωτογραφίες, λίγο ο υφέρπων ανθελληνισμός των αποκομμάτων της ιστορίας εδώ πέρα, λίγο ο υπερβάλλον ζήλος ορισμένων και άντε να αποδείξεις ότι δεν είσαι ελέφαντας. Όχι ότι τα Τιρανα μας απειλούν ακόμα βέβαια, αλλά οι ανταγωνίστριες πόλεις στην περιοχή προχωρούν σαν τον μέρμηγκα, δεν περιμένουν πότε θα σηκωθούμε από την ομφαλοσκόπηση μας πάνω στον καναπέ της προγονολατρίας μας. Όπως έγινε και με την Κωνσταντινούπολη, λίγο-λίγο και με υπομονή. Και χωρίς ΚΠΣ που έλεγε και ο Poliochni, αυτό μεγάλε έγραψε !!! :).

Στο κάτω κάτω οι αρχαίοι σπαρτιάτες έλεγαν

"Αμες δε γ' εσόμεθα πολλώ κάρρωνες".

Εμείς τι λέμε; "Φράγκα, Γκόμενες Παλάτια"; (Περιοδικό MAX μέσα δεκαετίας του 90)

Για ξαναδέστε τις φωτογραφίες και κουνήστε το κεφάλι σας λίγο... :D



GM,

Pigene sta Tirana kai perpata ligo giro stin poli kai meta ela pes mou an prepi na kounisoume ta kefalia mas. Min afininis 10 fotografies pou dixnoun 1% apo tin poli na se epriazi. Afta pou les, omos, gia tin athina kai tous ellines, simfono.

The problem is that still in 2005 there is no central planning for the wider Athens Metropolitan Area, not even some central administration. Furthermore, with the exception of the 2004 Olympic Games, there has never been a real vision for this city. It has always been the precious tiny interests of the individuals, or of small groups.
Athens needs a vision about its course into the 21st century, and initiatives to plan and materialise this vision. The big question is 'who":

- Who will perceive this vision
- Who will bring it about
- Who will put it down in plans
- Who will upprehend these plans
- Who will implement,materialise and deliver

My own answer, for the time being at least, is

N O N E.

And that's the reason why I'm mainly pessimistic....

For the time being we are the closest ones.

Pictures taken from the main terrace of "the Mall Athens" towards Maroussi and Kifissiaw Avenue:

And because I love you all, here are some pics from the main terrace of the mall: Bonus pics: Views from the main terrace at the entrance of the mall:

Πάρτε νάχετε παλιόπαιδα:

-Athens Olympic Stadium

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/40271/498710/0/OAKA+-+From+The+Mall+2.JPG

-Athens Olympic stadium and the metro train passing by the mall

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/40271/498709/0/OAKA+-+From+The+Mall+1.JPG

-Atrina Centre Tower and its neighbourhood in Kifissias Avenue

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/40271/498706/0/Maroussi+Skyline+-+From+The+Mall+1000x.JPG


-Greek Telecom building ans some lowrises in Kifisias Avenue

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/40271/498707/0/Maroussi+Skyline+-+2+-+From+The+Mall+1000x.JPG


-The remarkable Neratziotissa station with the suburban rail in the midsection of the Athens ring road ana Athens metro line 1 crossing...

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22634/40271/498776/0/Meratziotissa+Station+from+The+Mall.JPG

Also, here is a visionary version of the above pic modified by our co-forumer, Grigoris Sokratis, thanks, excellent work buddy...

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/1445/oneiro6xi.jpg

Just imagine... IF

My apologies for the bad weather, you understand that many visits will be paid to this place as times goes by. :)

The last photo is fabulous.

That would so suit Athens! I really really wish we started going up! Photos like that only make me more anxious.

Photos like this make me more anxious:

Let's stop a bit and admire one of the best modern skylines, the one of Toronto, Canada. Just to remind ouselves that tall may also be beautiful...

http://nagrang.co.kr/board/data/board2/Toronto%20Skyline-600.jpg

yes yes ...my city

This is somthing how toronto will look like by 2015..but there are many buildings missing from the picture

http://freefilehosting.net/file/?id=qdD2kKzd

exeretika ola auta pou grafete oloi sas!!!elpizo sintoma na doume ton proto ouranoxisti stin athina i tin saloniki...oxi kati poli psilo,kati gyro stous 20-25 orofous,etsi gia arxi!!!!
tha ithela omos na rotiso kati.....eine kati pou simvenei teleutaia stin kypro kai tha ithela na matho an to kanoun kai stin athina.
stin kypro iparhoun peripou oi idioi kanonismoi me tin ellada pou periorizoun to ypsos enos ktiriou peripou stous 12 orofous. tora teleutaia omos arhisan na dinoun adeies gia pio psila ktiria (14-15 orofous) ean oi idioktitries etaireies ktisoun megaliterous kai perissoterous ypogious horous stathmeusis sta ypokataskeui ktiria tous. etsi lynoun kai to provlima tis stathmeusis. symvenei auto stin athina?an oxi pistevete oti tha mporouse na efarmostei?

Σίγουρα. Εξάλλου αυτο είναι και το πλεονέκτημα του ύψους, το ότι "μαζεύει" κεντρικά ορισμένες λειτουργίες και δεν τις αφήνει να είναι σκορποχώρι σε μεγάλη έκταση. Το πάρκινγκ βοηθάει σε αυτο τα μέγιστα. Στην Ελλάδα, η υποχρεωτική κατασκευή πάρκινγκ έχει καθιερωθεί από το 1985 αλλά τα τελευταία 10 χρόνια έχει γίνει συνειδηση σε όλους τους κατασκευαστές.

Όσον αφορά την όμορφη Κύπρο, λίγοι ισως γνωρίζουν ότι η μαρτυρική Αμμόχωστος όταν κατελήφθει από τους Τούρκους ήταν γεμάτη με highrises (κτίρια 12-17 ορόφων, το ενδιάμεσο σταδιο πριν τους ουρανοξύστες )...

Τι να λέμε τώρα...

Kaloston phile mas apo tin Kypro!

Plaka plaka katse na deis pou tha ginei to proto kainourgio skyscraper se kana Thessaloniki/Patra. :shocked: :laugh:

Oops, almost forgot, some pictures to help GM sleep tight.....

http://mk31.image.pbase.com/u14/olinpics/upload/21846009.3475.jpg
http://mk31.image.pbase.com/u14/olinpics/upload/21845989.3474.jpg
http://mk29.image.pbase.com/u11/godspeed70/large/42826908.IMG_0332_L.jpg

Very interesting pictures from a city that epitomises the concept of quality of life. Also, people here will beed to see the Toronto City Hall, looks like from a science fiction movie. Out of this world, albeit simply a progressive modernistic highrise complex from the 70's.

It's in the mind of the architect, not in the style the architect ...

And, I leave you with a veeeeery distant photo (i like zoom photos) I took from "the mall Athens", depicting the residential block in Messogeion Avenue, built in the 1970's. Still there, ugly, defying everybody, waiting for its new brothers to rise on the side...:D, insisting...

Για να θυμούνται οι παλαιοί και να διδάσκονται οι νεώτεροι... :lol:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/501598

Very good description into Athen's skyscrapers :okay: Athens is a beautiful city, with skyscrapers or without. :)

And I don't know where you come from Carlos, both Auckland NZ and Dubai are amazing cities, thanks for your visit and comments. You are invited to see the contributions of the other members of the Hellenic forum to see the other more poetic and spectacular views of our country :):)

Very interesting pictures from a city that epitomises the concept of quality of life. Also, people here will beed to see the Toronto City Hall, looks like from a science fiction movie. Out of this world, albeit simply a progressive modernistic highrise complex from the 70's.

It's in the mind of the architect, not in the style the architect ...

And, I leave you with a veeeeery distant photo (i like zoom photos) I took from "the mall Athens", depicting the residential block in Messogeion Avenue, built in the 1970's. Still there, ugly, defying everybody, waiting for its new brothers to rise on the side...:D, insisting...

Για να θυμούνται οι παλαιοί και να διδάσκονται οι νεώτεροι... :lol:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/501598

Gm how could the cityplanners possibly not want new developments to mask up these hideous beasts! :D

In short:

Believe it or not, these hideous beasts are one of the few if not the only attempt to build a tower block in the suburbia of Athens and are buildings I grew up with.

Actually they are located in a nice area on Messogeion Avenue called "Neo Psychiko" opposite the Cholargos suburb, some 1km from where I live.

The block consists of the following (these are the complexes page, click on individual buildings to explore):

-Residential Twin Towers, Messogeion Avenue (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/cx/?id=103328), probably the only identical twin towers in Athens, reesidential, good quality and with an excellent view towards the mount Hymettus,

-The Teachers Residential Complex (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/cx/?id=103462) built by the Teachers Co-operative construction organisation (Οικοδομικός Συνεταιρισμός Εκπαιδευτικών ) to accomodate high school teachers, probably the only sole-purpose residential building of this size, and,

-Another 12-storey building, the 52, Tzavella Street Tower (http://www.emporis.com/en/il/im/?id=167299).

At the time these towers were built, the nearby areas were almost unbuilt. Happily, the buildings have been re-painted as they were right on the 2004 Olympics Marathon run on Messogeion Avenue and would thusly be seen by many eyes. Although they look ugly (they are some 30 years old, remember? ) thay are in a relatively nice area of lowrise residentials and they do not offend the eye as it may indicated by this picture. True, in a different case they might have constituted a minuscule cluster not been payed attention by anybody (as probably the case is now). It actually takes my eyes to see them stick out of the endless sea of 4-6 storey residentials constituting the rule for this area of Athens.

As a friend of mine once pointed out: "Greg, you are the only sick bastard that likes these monstrocities. Nobody else likes then dammit"... and I guess that one of the reasons that no new highrises have been built in Athens after 1980, since out of the many highrises built, only a handful could bass a test even by that times' (late 70's) standards).

But this is not the reason for not building new ones, right?

There not too ugly hehe.
Actually I dont think that Most Athensians hate Skyscrapers, i just think that they look at the Ugly 70's ones and hate them. If they looked at the Developments Kuwait was getting, they would be like WOW there Great! Hopefully, the new generation will bring a new face to Athens - with a touch of Skyscrapers.

No, they don't. With the exception of NIMBYs who even hate the air that they breathe, the rest simply have no opinion on the matter. They go past the Athens Tower, many would be fascinated to see tall buildings in Athens, others are negative but I believe that the majority simply ignores the facts. Except for the ones who have been to other cities with highrises (Australian ones included)who appear to be more positive...

I mean, Sydney and Melbourne (and Toronto and Vancouver in Canada) are model cities in terms of how to build scrapers that impress but do not offend or intimidate the public. Like the Empire State in NY. So elegant you don't notice its size or height !!!

It's interesting how people who visit other countrys often change their opinion about architecture, and why not, life itself. On the other hand, people who stay at the same place their whole life, usually are close-minded, conservative etc.

I think we should encourage tourism, and i mean active tourism, not laying on a beach all day long. This may change a lot..

I voted: Yes, after careful consultation with the local communities, up to 40-storeys can be built

based on the Athens photos I've seen I think it's possible to built such buildings in some spots of the city, why not?

I like the Acropolis, but I think it's an error to think that the past is better than the present/future. I don't agree with such taboos.

gm do you have any news about this building in Piraeus? It was abandoned for many years from what i know , what is the current status?

http://static.flickr.com/29/48017142_d0bebebff5.jpg?v=0

gm do you have any news about this building in Piraeus? It was abandoned for many years from what i know , what is the current status?

http://static.flickr.com/29/48017142_d0bebebff5.jpg?v=0


Hi Skaros. I was in Piraeus this summer and from what I saw, the building is still abandoned. It also still has the huge advertisement banner on it.

Thats a Johny Walker logo. Johny Walker being a scotch whisky label, ranging from $30 Australian for a bottle of red label to well over $200 for the other various colours.
Was the building affiliated in some way with the Johny Walker label/brand?

No, they probably saw it as a way to advertise.

Εννοείται ότι πονάει η ψυχή μου για αυτή την ντροπη. Δε φτανει που το κτίριο είναι ημιτελές γιαπί, πράγμα που προσβάλλει τον πολιτισμό μας 30 χρόνια τώρα, αλλά είμαστε και τόσο αρχοντοχωριάτες που αντι έστω να το γκρεμίσουμε να τελειώνει το άγος, βάζουμε, σε δείγμα της βλαχιάς μας και της κακώς εννούμενης Εθνικής μας ιδιορρυθμίας και το "εθνικό μας ποτό" πάνω στο γιαπί μην και δεν καταλάβουν τα εκατομμύρια τουριστών που περνούν από εκεί πόσο τριτοκοσμικοί και υπανάπτυκτοι είμαστε.

Ολυμπιακοί αγωνες έγιναν, μετρό έγινε, δρόμοι και στάδια έγιναν αλλά το γιαπί γιαπί.

ΝΤΡΟΠΗ!!!!!

gm2263,

calm down man, step by step everything will be fixed, even if this building is abandoned i like it, i think they should take it down and build a 40 floor building there.
Does this building have any name ?

It used to be called "Piraeus Trade Center" in an analogy to the "World Trade Center" in NY, and likewise, both buildings belonged to the respctive port authorities, ours belonging to the Piraeus Port authority.

Και συγνώμη παιδιά, αλλά αυτό είναι ανεπίτρεπτο...

In any case, read what I have reported on April 2004 with regards to the latest developments regarding the fate of the building

News: Rumors about long-term lease of Piraeus Trade Center
Piraeus: According to recent announcements in the Greek press(March 28, 2003), the Municipality of Piraeus announced that the 24-storey Piraeus Trade Center will be leased to Avax SA, a Greek Construction Consortium which already possesses a large portfolio of high quality lowrise buildings and completed infrastructure works, including -among others- parts of the new Athens ring road (Attiki Odos), the National Road #1 Athens - Thessaloniki, etc.

This announcement came out following an earlier report (March 27, 2003) in a newspaper's real estate news column where it was stated that the building was to be sold in a public auction so that its present owner, the Piraeus Municipality, can pay off a $9,000,000 debt to Meryll Lynch. However, it appears that the Piraeus Municipality have other plans for this debt's repayment and thus, the building will be otherwise used, after having most of its space devoted to office use remaining idle for many years. The reason or this delay in the completion of the building was attributed to an alleged problem in the overall stability of the building's frame caused by an engineering mistake during the building's early construction stages, back in the early 1970's.

The details of the lease contract, as announced in the press, include a 150,000 euros monthly lease fee for 25 years to be payed by Avax SA to the Piraeus Municipality for the full lease of the building. Avax SA will have to complete the necessary works so that the floors of the building that are for office use will be habitable and occupied as soon as possible.

Still, this announcement does not constitute a definitive agreement between Avax SA and the Piraeus Municipality. However, there has been some mobility lately, especially under the light of the upcoming Athens 2004 Summer Olympics. Chances are however, that the building may not be ready to accept new tenants before the games. In any case, if any type of work is undertaken in the building, this will signify the first time where construction work was undertaken in Greece above the 20-floor mark on any building for over a period of 20 years.


Unfortunately, I know nothing about this building since then... If anybody knows please keep us posted.

In the ,meantime, go to this address -------------> http://www.emporis.com/en/il/pc/?id=130986&aid=8 and click on the thumbnails to see some renderings of how the building would look like in case the restoration could be given a go ahead...

It looks like Athens Tower. So they allow such eyesores but not modern buildings? Give me a break! Who do we have to kick in the nuts to allow the construction of highrises?

BTW, the Reconstruction would look fantastic despite it being from 1997.

Just to revive this thread...

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/483541

And God willing I may have a few additions, however, I have the problem that when I am available and not working, the weather conditions to take pictures are adverse. And since in emporis we don't want pictures with grey skies, well, usually the months from November to March are not that appropriate for this kind of buildings safari...

Why dont you get a mod to pin this?

Heres an interesting pic:
http://els.hanappe.com/vlahos%20works%2021.jpg

This is a very interesting model. BTW, I traced the origins of the picture and I found an interesting story about an International Art Exhibition in Athens here you can find some interesting facts and fascinating 3D-models of the few, the proud and the great ( :lol: ) Athenian scrapers... :)

http://els.hanappe.com/steyerl&vlahos%20pr.htm

Athens Tower:

http://els.hanappe.com/vlahos%20works%2016.jpg

Not bad for a Greek building of the early 1970's... :)

Yea i was going to post them and the site but didnt have time. Note the amount of skyscrapers on display by greek architects. Perhaps they were proposed for athens?

From what I can gather, these were some of the proposals for the Athens Tower.

Overall, the sad thing is that we are talking about 30+ year-old projects.

Pity...

My new installment - ATHENS SKYLINES!!!

What the photographers will NEVER SHOW YOU!!! Just 5 minutes drive from my place... :)

1. NEVER SEEN BEFORE: Athens Ampelokipi district highrises and Attica Ring Road - Hymettus Branch as seen from mount Hymettus. You can see one of the famous tunnels of the Hymettus ring, the longest one being some 700m long, above Aghia Paraskevi.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c94/gm2263/Athens%20Skyscrapers%20and%20Modern%20Architecture/Athens-FromHymettuswithAtticaRoad-1.jpg

Looking at the above pic I still wonder how Athens would look like if the planners were a little bolder...


2. Close-up on the towers. The hill in front is known as "Petrokorakas" (stoneraven) or "Korakovouni" (Ravenhill), close to Holargos suburb. Creepy, huh?

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c94/gm2263/Athens%20Skyscrapers%20and%20Modern%20Architecture/Athens-FromHymettuswithKorakovouni-.jpg


3. A couple of 70's residentials in the area of Cholargos, namely the towers Efterpi and Erato, named after two ancient Greek muses. Notice the long building which is the Ministry of National Defence and the shopping centre to the right of the tallest Tower. It is called "Cholargos Centre and despite its relatively small size, it is one of the most profitable in the Attica Region.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c94/gm2263/Athens%20Skyscrapers%20and%20Modern%20Architecture/Athens-FromHymettuswiththeMinistryo.jpg


4. View of the Athens Olympic Sports Centre (OAKA) from mount Hymettus clearly depicting the urban sea of the Athenian Suburbia

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c94/gm2263/Athens%20Skyscrapers%20and%20Modern%20Architecture/Athens-FromHymettusOAKAComplex-1000.jpg

Here's what I don't understand: I read your story about Athens skyscrapers and it mentions how architects and architecture professors in Greece, and particularly in Athens, are pretty upset as they can't design the sort of buildings they'd like to due to the ridiculous high-rise laws. So, what don't all these intelligent, qualified, and well-respected individuals lobby the government on a continuing basis to obtain new modern-day building codes that would allow for the construction of tall buildings? Since some government officials already mentioned such a change as an eventual necessity, surely a bit of lobbying will achieve something, no?

Actually, the story is more complicated than that. To cut a long story short, I believe that the architectural community is probably divided at the moment. After many years where, for reasons explained in the previous pages, tall or even sizeable buildings on a scale that would be on a par with the size of a city like Athens, were out of the question since the so-called "dominant ideology" was against them. No, I wouldn't say that a lot of architects are fond of skyscrapers in Athens. Also, as previously written, even 20 or 15-storey buildings are out of the question.

On the other hand, yes, a number of people are against this absurdity, since, as previously mentioned, we are not talking about buildings next to the Acropolis but about empty spaces in Μaroussi, Votanikos or other empty or abandoned pieces of land. They express their opinions here and there but, I suspect that still, the resistance to change is so big after years of systematic misinformation, (should I call it brainwashing?) that their voices are lost in a sea of negativism which, for the sake of environmental protection contributed too much to the hazard of the urban environment that we are all witnessing in places in Athens.

Of course we are talking about office buildings and not apartment blocks although nobody knows how the younger generations would react to the idea to live in a highrise.

Let's face it: A global city needs construction of size, greatness and height of global proportions. Shall we take the next step?

_________________________

Δυστυχώς ο αριθμός εκείνων οι οπoίοι θεωρούν ότι ορισμένα πράγματα πρέπει να απο-δαιμονοποιηθούν είναι ακόμη λίγος και για διάφορους λόγους όχι αρκετός για να δημιουργήσει μια νέα δυναμική. Σίγουρα υπάρχουν νέα μυαλά -οι παλιοί καλώς ή κακώς χορτάσανε, μάλλον βγαίνουν στη σύνταξη οπότε γαία πυρί μιχθήτω. Οι νέοι και να θέλουνε να πούνε κάτι, ακόμα και αν γλυτώσουνε την ανεργία και βρεθούνε σε ένα εργασιακό χώρο κατάλληλο, δεν θα βρούνε ευήκοα ώτα. Ακόμα...

Τάχω γράψει και τάχω ξαναγράψει. Οι λόγοι της υστέρησης είναι πολλοί και σημαντικοί. Το θέμα είναι ότι η Αθήνα δεν δίνει την εντύπωση μείζωνος επιχειρηματικού κεντρου, και η υπόθεση δεν είναι μόνο απλά να χτιστούν 30 όροφοι κάπου, απρογραμμάτιστα. Είναι ότι είναι τόσο περίεργοι και σφιχτοί οι νόμοι που με την υφιστάμενη νομοθεσία δεν μπορείς να χτίσεις σωστά και ποιοτικά συγκροτήματα γραφείων κατηγορίας Α' μεγέθους που να δημιουργεί οικονομίες κλίμακος με αποτέλεσμα να είναι γνωστό ότι η Αθήνα δεν έχει προσφερόμενους χωρους οπότε οι ενδιαφερόμενοι πάνε Κων/πολη, στη Δυτική Ευρώπη, οπουδήποτε. Ταυτόχρονα, υπάρχει υπερπροσφορά φθηνών μεν, ακατάλληλων δε χώρων. Πρόσθεσε σε αυτο και την περίεργη κατάσταση της οικονομίας παγκοσμίως όπου υπάρχει αυτή η αλλόκοτη "ανάπτυξη" αλλά χωρίς αυξηση των θέσεων εργασίας, οπότε βγάλε συμπέρασμα. Είναι που έχει μπουχτίσει το μάτι του Αθηναίου και από την ασχήμια οπότε τα βάζει όλα στο ίδιο τσουβάλι και όπου οτιδήποτε μεγάλο και υψηλό θεωρείται και κακό και την κάτσαμε τη βάρκα...

Από την άλλη, ακούγεται το αντεπιχείρημα ότι ούτε και στη Σκανδιναυία (με την εξαίρεση του "στρεφόμενου κορμού" -Turning Torso) στο Malmo της Σουηδίας υπάρχουν πολύ ντε ψηλά κτίρια, λές και μοιάζουμε με τους Σκανδιναβούς στα υπόλοιπα...

Τι να πω παιδάκια, οι Αρχαίοι ημών πρόγονοι είχαν πει μεν το "παν μέτρον άριστον" αλλά είχαν πει και το "κατούτο ποιείν, κακείνο μη αφιέναι". Δεν λέω να χτίσουμε ντε και καλά τίποτα το εξωφρενικό. Από την άλλη όμως, μηπως θα επρεπε να το ξανασκεφτούμε, αλλοιώς -λέω- ξεχάστε τα "επιχειρηματικά κέντρα" των Βαλκανίων, της Μεσογείου, της Νοτιοανατολικής Ευρώπης και δε συμμαζεύεται. Θέλει προσπάθεια και κότσια η φάση...

Αλλοιώς ας μη χαλιόμαστε, υπάρχουν και τα Τίρανα, η Πριστινα, το Βελιγράδι (παλιά και ιστορική πόλη ) η πανταχού παρούσα Πόλη... Και πάτε στα φόρουμς τους να δείτε τι πανζουρλισμός και ενθουσιασμός υπάρχει.

Όσο για εμάς, καλά όλα τα άλλα, αλλά εδώ δεν έχω βρεί αρχιτέκτονες ή φοιτητές της αρχιτεκτονικής εντός και εάν κρύβονται :naughty:. Oπότε τι συζητάμε...

Άσε Γρηγόρη μόλις διάβασα για τα αυθαίρετα που χτίζονται στην Αθήνα.

Καλύτερα να μην αναφέρω νούμερα γιατί θα καραφλιάσουμε ομαδικώς.

Αχχχχ, γι' αυτο έχω γράψει αρκετές φορές για τη δημιουργία σωστά οργανωμένων ζωνων υψηλών κτιρίων (κάτι σαν εκείνες της "υποδοχής συντελεστού") που λέγαμε κάποτε. Μια διάσταση του προβλήματος μας (και κρύβε λόγια :lol: ) είναι ότι αφ' ενός μεν εκεί που θα έπρεπε να χτίζονται ψηλά ή μεγάλα κτίρια που ας πούμε θα μπορούσαν να στεγάσουν εν πολλοίς και υπουργεία που τώρα είναι εγκατεσπαρμένα παντού, δεν χτίζονται, αφ' ετέρου σε άλλες περιοχές συνεχίζεται με μεγάλο ρυθμό η κατάτμηση της γης και η αυθαίρετη εκμετάλλευση της.

Στην ουσία δηλαδή μιλάμε και για ιδεοληψία στη μια περίπτωση, αλλά και για παντελή έλλειψη εφαρμογής νόμων από την άλλη.

Και ξέρεις κάτι; Δυστυχώς, θα έλεγα ότι ο δείκτης αυθαίρετης δόμησης θα μπορούσε να χαρακτηριστεί και σαν δέικτης "τριτοκοσμικότητας" ενός κράτους. Εχω διαβάσει κι' εγώ τα σχετικά άρθρα και φρίττω. Και από ότι υποπτέυομαι, δεν μιλάμε για παραγκουπόλεις πλέον (έχουν εκλείψει από την Αθήνα εδώ και δεκαετίες πλην εξαιρέσεων στη Δυτική πλευρά όπου και εκεί θα εξαφανιστούν συντόμως από ότι βλέπω ) αλλά για σπίτια πλουσίων ή ευκατάστατων οι οποίοι και προχωρούν στη συστηματική καταπάτηση εκτάσεων...

Βγάλτε συμπέρασμα...

Αχχχχ, γι' αυτο έχω γράψει αρκετές φορές για τη δημιουργία σωστά οργανωμένων ζωνων υψηλών κτιρίων (κάτι σαν εκείνες της "υποδοχής συντελεστού") που λέγαμε κάποτε. Μια διάσταση του προβλήματος μας (και κρύβε λόγια :lol: ) είναι ότι αφ' ενός μεν εκεί που θα έπρεπε να χτίζονται ψηλά ή μεγάλα κτίρια που ας πούμε θα μπορούσαν να στεγάσουν εν πολλοίς και υπουργεία που τώρα είναι εγκατεσπαρμένα παντού, δεν χτίζονται, αφ' ετέρου σε άλλες περιοχές συνεχίζεται με μεγάλο ρυθμό η κατάτμηση της γης και η αυθαίρετη εκμετάλλευση της.

Στην ουσία δηλαδή μιλάμε και για ιδεοληψία στη μια περίπτωση, αλλά και για παντελή έλλειψη εφαρμογής νόμων από την άλλη.

Και ξέρεις κάτι; Δυστυχώς, θα έλεγα ότι ο δείκτης αυθαίρετης δόμησης θα μπορούσε να χαρακτηριστεί και σαν δέικτης "τριτοκοσμικότητας" ενός κράτους. Εχω διαβάσει κι' εγώ τα σχετικά άρθρα και φρίττω. Και από ότι υποπτέυομαι, δεν μιλάμε για παραγκουπόλεις πλέον (έχουν εκλείψει από την Αθήνα εδώ και δεκαετίες πλην εξαιρέσεων στη Δυτική πλευρά όπου και εκεί θα εξαφανιστούν συντόμως από ότι βλέπω ) αλλά για σπίτια πλουσίων ή ευκατάστατων οι οποίοι και προχωρούν στη συστηματική καταπάτηση εκτάσεων...

Βγάλτε συμπέρασμα...
Εδώ είναι όλο το ζουμί.

Και εγώ αυτό υποπτεύομαι,πάνε οι κατασκευαστές,εργολάβοι και άλλoi,έχουν πρόσβαση σε πρόσωπα και καταστάσεις και πιέζουν για να εξυπηρετήσουν τα συμφέροντα τους.

Αποτέλεσμα αυτού είναι να υπάρχει μια ανεξέλεγκτη δόμηση εντός-εκτός σχεδίου πόλεως και τα μεσόγεια σιγά αλλά σταθερά να μετατρέπονται σε μια δεύτερη Αθήνα.

Άντε τώρα να μιλήσεις για σχέδιο πόλεως,ποιότητα ζωής,νομιμότητα κλπ.Αυτά για μερικούς είναι ψιλά γράμματα.

File gm xereis poio einai to asteio? Apo tote pou diavasa afto to thread otan rwtaw apo dw ki apo kei dithen anideos giati den exei ouranoxistes i Athina oi apantiseis pou pairnw einai Den Xerw/Giati exoume seismous/Giati kostizoun poly. Sxedon kaneis de gnwrizei oti tous apokleiei i nomothesia! Ki an xafnika akougan oti tha xtisei ouranixistis stin Athina pistevw oti i prwti skepsi pou tha kanan tha itan 'epitelous!' Mexri vevaia na vgoune diaforoi ilitioi sta MME oriwmenoi gia to poso "antidimokratikoi" kai apokroustikoi einai kai oti tha xalasoun tin Athina (poso pio poly ginetai na xalasei i Athina diladi???). Tote loipon oloi tha arxizan na to vlepoun arnitika. Kata tin apopsi mou allos enas logos pou de prokeitai na xtistoun ouranoxistes einai oi lisasmenoi katoikoi twn gyrw perioxwn pou tha fwnazoun oti tha tous kleisi ti thea. I opws tha legan tha "erixne to viotiko tous epipedo". Etsi loipon akoma kai protasi na ginei gia allagi tis sxetikis nomothesias tha arxisei to daxtrirdi apo tous aiwnious Ellinares. Kai afto pou mou ti dinei einai pws oi idioi pou pane kai xtizoun ta afthereta, oi idioi pou exoun katadisei tin Athina ena mavro xali, aftoi tha einai oi prwtoi pou tha adidrasoun stous ouranaksistes. Ara IMO gia na xtistoun pote kainourgioi ouranoxistes stin Athina prepei nai ypernikithoun: i nomothesia, i nootropia kai oi gyrw katoikoi. Poso pithano einai ayto gia tous Ellines? Pistevw oso pithano einai na grapsw kala avrio programmatismo. Den exw anoixei vivlio! :wallbash:

Φίλε μου, δεν ξέρω άν έχεις εξεταστική και δεν θέλω να καταστρέψω την πορεία των εξετάσεων σου αλλά συμφωνούμε τραγικά σε όλα, μόνο που εγώ είμαι πολυλογάς και τα γράφω και τα ξαναγράφω μέχρις ναυτίας (ad nauseam που λένε και οι Λατίνοι ).

Αν βρείς το χρόνο διάβασε τα σχετικά μου παραληρήματα στο φόρουμ του stadia.gr στο κομμάτι της Αρχιτεκτονικής όπου (καλά βλέπω πως είμαι και Ο ξεροκέφαλος τωρα που τα ξαναδιαβάζω ) πλέον παραληρώ ασύστολα. Διάβασε -----------> εδώ (http://www.stadia.gr/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=775) να δείς τρέλλα, είναι ενδιαφέρον ανάγνωσμα. Όπως επίσης και στο κομμάτι της "Αθήνας των ονείρων μας" ----------> εδώ (http://www.stadia.gr/forum/viewtopic.php?t=119&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=1500).

Τέλος, ενα δείγμα από ένα άλλο thread που είχε να κάνει με το πως θα φαινόταν η Αθήνα αν είχε ψηλά κτίρια. Ημιτελέστατη η προσπάθεια αλλά είχα και κάποιες προτάσεις και εγώ όπως και άλλοι φίλοι...

Δες --------------> εδώ (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=294853&page=1&pp=20).

Δυστυχώς είναι όπως τα λες και είναι κρίμα γιατι σαν λαός έχουμε άπειρες δυνατότητες σε πάρα πολλά πράγματα και το έχουμε αποδείξει πολλάκις. Τι να πω...

...και φυσικά συμφωνώ και με τον Κ/πολις για το θέμα της ποιότητας ζωής και της νομιμότητας. Αλλά αυτό είναι θέμα άλλης δημοσίευσης βέβαια.

Τέλος, oι "λυσσασμένοι" κάτοικοι έχουν φυσικά το δικαίωμα της γνώμης προς Θεού, μην τρελλαθούμε κιόλας. Αρκεί η γνώμη τους να μην κατευθυνεται από ιδεοληψίες και συμφέροντα και μόνον και να αφορά χώρους που είναι μακρια από αυτούς. Πχ, στις προσόψεις της Κηφισίας από το "Υγεία" μέχρι τη διασταύρωση με την Αττική οδό μάλλον δεν πέφτει λόγος σε κανένα, κάντε μια βόλτα εκεί και ψάξτε το, ιδίως από την δυτική πλευρά του δρόμου.

Τώρα όσον αφορα το αν οι ουρανοξύστες είναι... ακριβοί :lol: αυτο πές το σε εκείνους που παραπάνω από τριάντα χρόνια πρίν έχτισαν τον Πύργο των Αθηνών ή τον πύργο "Απόλλωνα" της Πανόρμου (που είναι και κακάσχημος αλλά αυτο είναι άλλη ιστορία... ), πως ήταν η Ελλάδα τότε και πως είναι τώρα. Δόξα τω Θεώ, πολλά "μακρουλά" κτίρια που καταλαμβάνουν και πολύ χώρο ενώ είναι και χαμηλά, δηλαδή πολλαπλάσια ζημιά με ελάχιστο όφελος, στοιχίζουν όσο ένας ουρανοξύστης...

Μήπως η απάντηση είναι στην τηλεόραση, πρέπει να απευθύνουμε τις ιδέες αυτές στα τηλεοπτικά κανάλια μέσω ζητημάτων που στέλνονται στις εκπομπές τύπου <<Καλημέρα Ελλάδα>> ή <<Πρώτη Γραμμή>>, στις οποίες η πολίτες στέλνουν τέτοιου είδους ζητήματα.

Τι λέτε παιδιά...

Θα έλεγα στα περιοδικά και στις εφημερίδες. Εκεί αν κάποιος θέλει μπορεί να επικοινωνήσει και να τα πεί. Ιδίως στις επιστολές της "Καθημερινής" που επιτρέπουν κάποιο χώρο παραπανω για ανάπτυξη.

Επίσης, επειδή σήμερα το έριξα στο σορολόπ (έκφραση στις παλιές Ελληνικές ταινίες που σημαίνει το κολοβάρεμα :D), βρηκα το ενδιαφέρον κείμενο το οποίο και παραθέτω αυτούσιο ως ακολούθως για να καταλάβετε what we are up against και για τι πράγμα μιλάω, επειδή οι περισσότεροι από εδώ πέρα είναι νέα παιδιά και δεν έχουν συναντήσει τέτοιου είδους καταγγελτικό, αφαιρετικό και στρεβλωτικό λόγο προηγουμένως. Προέρχεται από ένα διαδικτυακό κόμβο αρχιτεκτόνων τον http://www.sadas-pea.gr -αξιόλογο κατα τα άλλα θα έλεγα- και συγκεκριμένα από το ηλεκτρονικό περιοδικό τους τευχος 46 κλίκ εδω για να το βρείτε ολόκληρο -------------> http://www.sadas-pea.gr/ARXITEKTONES_46.pdf. Το άρθρο υπογράφει ο Τάσης Παπαϊωάννου, αρχιτέκτων και επικουρος καθηγητής ΕΜΠ.

Οπότε διαβάστε και ακολουθεί και η απάντηση μου:

_________________________

"Γαίας Εκποίησις"


Η άναρχη και αυθαίρετη επέκταση της Αθήνας προς κάθε κατεύθυνση χωρίς στοιχειώδη σχεδιασμό, δημιούργησε μέσα σε μερικές δεκαετίες μια τερατώδη πόλη που ασφυκτιά χωρίς ίχνος ελεύθερου χώρου ή περιοχών αστικού πρασίνου.

Μία εξάπλωση εκρηκτική που ως αστική λαίλαπα διέλυσε και κατέστρεψε στο πέρασμά της κάθε σπιθαμή του μοναδικού Αττικού τοπίου, αλλοίωσε τα χαρακτηριστικά περιγράμματα των λόφων του με την ανεξέλεγκτη λατόμευση γεμίζοντας με ανοικτές πληγές τις όμορφες πλαγιές τους, μπάζωσε ρέματα, μετέτρεψε σε υπονό μους τα δύο υπέροχα ποτάμια που το διέσχιζαν, και επέκτεινε με τεράστιες επιχώσεις προς το Φαληρικό όρμο το θαλάσσιο μέτωπο, αποκόπτοντας οριστικά την πόλη από την άλλοτε γραφική παραλία, μετατρέποντάς την σε μολυσμένο τόπο.

Μάταια πριν 50 ακριβώς χρόνια ο Δημήτρης Πικιώνης καυτηρίαζε την ανεπανόρθωτη καταστροφή της Αθηναϊκής γης με τα παρακάτω
προφητικά λόγια: «Κι είχαμε χρέος να τη φυλάξουμε ως κόρην οφθαλμού. Τόσο περισσότερο, όσο απ’ τη φύση της γης τούτης και τ’ ουρανού,
από τη σύνταξη τούτη δεν μπορείς ν΄ αφαιρέσεις τίποτα χωρίς να καταστρέψεις την Αρμονία των ισορροπημάτων που συνέχει το όλον... Μα
τι τ’ όφελος, η ύβρις μένει. Τίποτα πια δεν μπορεί να την απαλείψει, θα μείνει εις τον αιώνα. Τρισμέγιστη είναι η ενοχή μας. Κι όχι μονάχα απέναντι του εαυτού μας, μα έναντι της μνήμης των περασμένων, έναντι του μέλλοντος και έναντι όλων των λαών της οικουμένης».

Γιατί ουδέποτε μας απασχόλησε σοβαρά πως κτίζουμε σ’ αυτόν τον υπέροχο και ευλογημένο τόπο που μας κληροδοτήθηκε. Εδώ το δύσκολο εγχείρημα και η ευθύνη του αρχιτέκτονα, έγκειται στο πώς θα εντάξει σοφά και αρμονικά το κτίριό του σ’ αυτό που προϋπήρχε, σε αντίθεση με άλλους τόπους όπου ο
ορίζοντας εμφανίζεται προς κάθε κατεύθυνση απαράλλαχτα ο ίδιος, έτσι που να χάνεις τον προσανατολισμό σου και την αίσθηση για το πού ακριβώς βρίσκεσαι. Ίσως αυτός να ήταν και ένας από τους λόγους που οι άνθρωποι εκεί, είχαν την ανάγκη να δημιουργήσουν τεχνητά τοπόσημα με μεγάλο όγκο και μέγεθος, όπως οι πυραμίδες στην Αίγυπτο μέσα στην οριζοντιότητα των αμμόλοφων της ερήμου ή στην κεντρική Αμερική που ξεπροβάλλουν πάνω από την πυκνή βλάστηση, ώστε να φαίνονται από μακριά αλλά και να βλέπουν μακριά. Κάθε τόπος με τα ιδιαίτερα χαρακτηριστικά του, η ίδια η γη, μας υποδεικνύει τον τρόπο και το μέτρο της όποιας μας επέμβασης!

Είναι το ίδιο το αθηναϊκό τοπίο, λοιπόν, που δεν ανέχεται και αποβάλλει ως ξένο σώμα το γιγα ντισμό των μορφών, όπως τα πολυώροφα κτίρια – ουρανοξύστες που κτίστηκαν κατά τη διάρκεια της δικτατορίας και ορθώνονται ως ύβρις προς την ιερή τούτη γη, για να μας θυμίζουν σαν άλλα υπερμεγέθη ξόανα την πιο σκοτεινή περίοδο της σύγχρονης ιστορίας μας.

Αλλά εμείς όμως συνεχίζουμε απτόητοι να κτίζουμε παντού αδιακρίτως, χωρίς μέτρο, χωρίς τύψεις, χωρίς αιδώ.

Κανείς δεν άκουσε την κραυγή αγωνίας, του στοχαστικού και ασυμβίβαστου Αριστομένη Προβελέγγιου: «Ατίμωσαν την αθηναϊκή γη! Αλίμονο, με διάφορα ρουσφέτια, με δωροδοκίες, με τον συμβιβασμό του κράτους που δεν ελέγχει τίποτα, αλλά όλα τα πουλάει… μας έκλεψαν τις χρυσαφένιες γραφές και το δραματικό θέαμα των τοπίων».


___________________

Επειδή είμαι κι' εγώ εκπαιδευτικός, ας μου επιτραπεί λοιπόν μια παρέμβαση γιατι εδώ έχει ζουμι η υπόθεση και αποτελεί την επιτομή των όσων γράφω και εδώ και στο stadia.gr.

1ον: (Ξανα )- ακούμε για την καταστροφή της Αθήνας (1η παράγραφος ) για την οποία δε διαφωνεί κανένας.

2ον: Συνεχίζοντας, ο αρθρογράφος επιτείνει την εντύπωση επιστρατευοντας τον αείμνηστο Πικιώνη, ο οποίος όπως άπαντες γνωρίζουμε, τη δεκαετία του 50 έκανε πλήθος έργων στην Αθήνα, και παρά την έλλειψη κονδυλίων και μέσων, πολύ καλύτερα από τους σύγχρονους του κου αρθρογράφου.

3ον: Επιχειρείται η εισαγωγή του (όχι και τόσο αβάσιμου επιχειρήματος αλλά άστοχου για την περίπτωση ) ότι σε άλλους τόπους χτίζουν έτσι όπως χτίζουν, δηλαδή χτίζουν ογκώδη οικοδομήματα διότι το τοπίο και στις τέσσερεις γωνίες του ορίζοντα είναι το ίδιο και απαράλλαχτο (so? ). Σε αυτο το σημείο έχω την πρώτη ένσταση: :nono:

Γνωρίζει ο κος Καθηγητής γιατι χτίστηκε εκεί που χτίστηκε η μοναδική και ανυπέρβλητη Ακρόπολη; Δεν ήταν μια -σοφή μεν- ουσιώδης όμως και σημαδιακή επέμβαση αυτή, η οποία μάλιστα για να ολοκληρωθεί έπρεπε να ισιώσει ο λόφος της Ακροπόλεως και να χτιστεί επτά φορές; Δεν είχε σαν αποτέλεσμα - άσχετα από την τελειότητα του αποτελέσματος- να αλλοιωθεί τελεσίδικα το τοπίο και σε μεγάλη ακτίνα; Δεν ήταν τέλος το αποτέλεσμα της μεγαλομανίας -να το δούμε κι' έτσι- των Αθηναίων οι οποίοι κατεσπατάλησαν τα λεφτά του ταμείου της Αθηναϊκής συμμαχίας;

Και για πέστε μου, γιατι χτίστηκε η Ακρόπολη εκεί πέρα, ει μη μόνον για να είναι ορατή και να φαίνεται για χιλιόμετρα από μακρυά - όπως και οι πυραμίδες; Μα θα μου πείς το ίδιο είναι η Ακρόπολη με τα μοντέρνα μεγαθήρια; Ε βρε παιδιά, κι΄' εγω το λέω, νισάφι, ας μην χτίσουμε κτίρια παραπλήσια του ύψους της Ακρόπολης και ας κρατηθούμε σε μια απόσταση 10χλμ από το ν ιερό βράχο. Από την άλλη όμως και το υπάρχον αποτέλεσμα, μάλλον δεν είναι και τόσο ωραίο, έτσι δεν είναι κύριε Καθηγητά;


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c94/gm2263/Athens%20Classic%20Architecture%20Pictures/Acropolis-FromHondosCentre-Omonia.jpg

Η φωτογραφία δική μου απο το εστιατόριο του Hondos Center της πλατείας Ομονοίας στο 10 όροφο. Να πάτε σας το συνιστώ :).

Συνεχίζουμε:

Φυσικά, το επιχείρημα ότι άλλοι λαοί δεν είχαν φυσικά τοπόσημα όπως οι επτά λόφοι της Αθήνας και γι' αυτό έχτισαν τεράστια οικοδομήματα είναι ΤΕΛΕΙΩΣ αστήρικτο εφόσον υπ' αυτή την έννοια καμμιά πόλη με λόφους και βουνά δεν θα έπρεπε να χτιστεί, από Χονγκ Κόνγκ (που το ξεσκίσανε εκεί και ας είχε και λόφους με θέα, και βουνά, αλλά έλα που δεν είχαν χώρο ) μέχρι Λος Αντζελες (που αν εξαιρέσουμε την Ακρόπολη μοιάζει πολύ με την Αθήνα και σας παραπέμπω στη σελίδα 2 της παρούσας δημοσίευσης ). Θέλετε ναούς στη μέση της πόλης; η Οσάκα με τους ουρανοξύστες αλλά και το κάστρο της στη μέση. Θέλετε συνύπαρξη σχεδόν "ιερόσυλη"; Για δέστε το Παρίσι με την αψίδα του θριάμβου και πίσω του τα τέρατα της La Defence, ή τη φωτογραφια του Πύργου του Αϊφελ με τους ουρανοξύστες της La Defence από πίσω να δείτε γέλιο. Και όμως δένουν...

Και για μια στιγμή βρε παιδιά. Στο κάτω κάτω από φιλοδοξία - για να μην πούμε μεγαλομανία- δεν έγιναν όλα τα μεγάλα έργα; Η μήπως ήταν από μετριοφροσύνη η ιστορική κραυγή του Ιουστινιανού όταν επιτέλους τελείωσε την Αγία Σοφία και ανέκραξε πανευτυχής "ΝΕΝΙΚΗΚΑ ΣΕ ΣΟΛΟΜΩΝ!!!" Πώς νομίζετε ότι την τελείωσε; Μιλώντας για τις "ανθρώπινες κλίμακες" της τότε Κωνσταντινούπολης; Θα μου πείς δεν είναι το ίδιο. θα σας ανταπαντήσω ότι είναι κατ αναλογία το ίδιο πράγμα. Εμπεριέχει το στοιχέιο της φιλοδοξίας. Άλλιώς, αν θέλουμε να το δούμε διαφορετικά, πουθενά μέσα στο ευαγγέλιο δε λέει ότι πρέπει να χτίζουμε κυκλώπιου μεγέθους ναούς για να λατρεύουμε το Θεό, σαν την Αγία Σοφία ή τους μεταγενέστερους καθεδρικούς ναούς όπως της Σαρτρ (Chartres) στη Γαλλία που είναι και 150μ ύψος (0ο πύργος των Αθηνών είναι 103 επί τη ευκαιρία ).

Και ναι, σίγουρα η Αθήνα είναι "a city with a view" και οι όποιες επεμβάσεις θέλουν προσοχή, μήπως όμως η μη ανέγερση κτιρίων πάνω από 8 ορόφους σε επιλεγμένες περιοχές, επαναλαμβάνω, όχι άλλοι πύργοι Απόλλωνες πάνω από την οδό Πανόρμου σε μια συνοικία σαν τους Αμπελοκήπους- έχει μαλλιάσει η γλώσσα μου :bash:, λέω μήπως αυτή η ολοκληρωτική λογική πλέον επιβάλλεται εκ των άνω, και το χειρότερο είναι εκ του πονηρού και δεν έχει σχέση με το τι θα μπορούσε να γίνει στην πραγματικότητα; Μήπως φοβούνται τον άπαιχτο κατασκευαστή που θα κάνει την κίνηση για κάτι,πολύ μεγάλο και θα στραγγίξει την αγορά γραφείων για τα καλά, εφόσον φυσικά κάποιος επιχειρηματίας θα ήθελε με τα χίλια να πάει κάπου με θέα, πάρκινγκ, εμπορικά κέντρα και κύρος αντι για τις καταθλιπ[τικές παρόδους της Κηφισίας που χτίζονται τετραόροφα γυάλινα μέσα σε γειτωνιές κατοικίας;

Δεν εχετε αναρωτηθεί πως είναι δυνατόν να έχουμε Business Center στο Μαρούσι μαζί με το ΟΑΚΑ και το πλησιέστερο ξενοδοχείο της προκοπής είναι είτε στην Κηφισιά, είτε στο κέντρο; Το ξέρετε ότι οι υπάρχοντες ξενοδόχοι αντέδρασαν λυσσαλέα στην αναγγελία κατασκευής ξενοδοχείου (τι τους ένοιαζε; ) με το πρόσχημα ότι αυτο θα κατέστρεφε το... πράσινο του Αμαρουσίου τη στιγμή που κάτι τέτοιο θα εξυπηρετούσε αφάνταστα και τους Ολυμπιακούς αγώνες αλλά και θα αναβάθμιζε το ρόλο της Λ. Κηφισίας σαν επιχειρηματικού κέντρου; Το ξέρετε ότι δεν αφηνόταν για χρόνια να χτιστούν νέα ξενοδοχεία στην Αττιική με τη δικαιολογία ότι ηταν... κορεσμένη; Και ποιός το κρίνει αυτο; μα φυσικά οι... υπάρχοντες ξενοδόχοι οι οποίοι φαγώθηκαν να μη γίνει νέα ξενοδοχειακή μονάδα στο Μαρουσι και έχουν ανταγωνισμό. Μη μασάτε παιδιά, μας δουλεύουν ψιλό γαζί...

Ας δούμε παρακάτω:

"Είναι το ίδιο το αθηναϊκό τοπίο, λοιπόν, που δεν ανέχεται και αποβάλλει ως ξένο σώμα το γιγαντισμό των μορφών, όπως τα πολυώροφα κτίρια
– ουρανοξύστες που κτίστηκαν κατά τη διάρκεια της δικτατορίας και ορθώνονται ως ύβρις προς την ιερή τούτη γη, για να μας θυμίζουν σαν
άλλα υπερμεγέθη ξόανα την πιο σκοτεινή περίοδο της σύγχρονης ιστορίας μας.
Αλλά εμείς όμως συνεχίζουμε απτόητοι να κτίζουμε παντού αδιακρίτως, χωρίς μέτρο, χωρίς τύψεις, χωρίς αιδώ".

:weirdo:

Ααααμ, εμ πές το έτσι χριστιανέ μου απο δω το φέρνεις, από κει το φέρνεις σκάστο το παραμύθι να τελειώνουμε ντέ :D.

Τώρα βέβαια, οι δικτατορίες δεν είναι καλό πράγμα μεταξύ μας δηλαδή, και φυσικά, ο αρθρογράφος στηρίζεται πάνω σε αυτό το "ταμπού" για να αυθαιρετήσει με λογικές ακρόβασιες. Στην περίπτωση όμως αυτή δεν αντιλαμβάνομαι ποιός είναι χειρότερος: Οι μεγαλομανείς δικτάτορες που επέτρεψαν άνευ σχεδίου το χτίσιμο μέσα σε πυκνοκατοικημένες περιοχές αδιακρίτως και πρόλαβαν και χτίστηκαν καμμιά 50ριά κτίρια εκ των οποίων πολλά απλά δεν βλέπονται, δυστυχώς, μέσα σε κατοικημένες περιοχές ή η ιδεοληψία των επόμενων οι οποίοι από τότε φανατίζουν με αυτή τη σαθρή επιχειρηματολογία γενέες Ελληνοπαίδων και τα ναρκώνουν τόσο πολύ που με τον αρνητισμό που τα διαποτίζουν, έχουν τόσο αφαιρετική φιλοσοφία που δεν είναι άξια ούτε μια πλατεία να διαμορφώσουν (βλέπε περιπτώσεις πλ. Ομονοίας, Μοναστηρακίου ).

Δυστυχώς με αφήνει άφωνο αυτός ο συντριπτικά ξύλινος λόγος από ένα πνευματικό άνθρωπο και μάλιστα επίκουρο έστω καθηγητή πανεπιστημίου. Δεν γνωρίζει ο καθηγητης για τις επεμβάσεις στο Bilbao, στη Βαρκελώνη, το Βερολίνο. Δεν γνωρίζει ο κος καθηγητής τον Calatrava, τον Kulhaas, τη Hadid, τόσους και τόσους, οι επεμβάσεις των οποίων εκτός από παράνομες σε σχέση με τα περι συντελεστών ισχύοντα εν Ελλάδι θα απερρίπτοντο εν μία νυκτί σαν "ανάρμοστες" και "αναντίστοιχες" με τις κλίμακες του Αττικού τοπίου στο οποίο όμως από την άλλη επιτρεται να ασχημονούμε αρκεί να το διακορεύουμε κατα πλάτος αλλά όχι και καθ' ύψος. Η λογική του παραλόγου!!!

Οι εικόνες που μας σφετεριστικά μας παραπέμπει ο ακαδημαϊκός διδάσκαλος είναι του Πικιωνη (δάσκαλε συγχώρα μας για την μεταθανάτια αυτή ενόχληση ) και των εικόνων μιας πόλεως η οποία καλώς ή κακώς ΔΕΝ υπάρχει. Λες και η παραδοσιακή Αθήνα ή η μαγική παραλία (που εδώ που τα λέμε τη... γλύτωσε αν σκεφτουμε τι έγινε στο Benidorm της Ισπανίας ) με τα χαμηλά κτίρια (αν και τα 10 όροφα του Παλαιού Φαλήρου δεν είναι ακριβώς χαμηλά άλλά ας το αφήσουμε να υποπέσει :D) δεν μπορούν να συνυπάρξουν με μελλοντικά συγκροτήματα στο Βοτανικό, στο Μαρούσι, στον Κηφισό ή στον Ελαιώνα... Αλλά όχι, η πόλη πρέπει να είναι "Μητρόπολη της Ανατολικής Μεσογείου" ή έστω, άντε, "Βαλκανική μητρόπολη" (γιατι βλέπω μια αντίφαση σε αυτο τον τίτλο δεν ξέρω ) με κλίμακες κωμοπόλεως. Σαν κάπως περίεργα μας τα λέει ο κος Καθηγητής...

Και φυσικά το άρθρο τελειώνει με τον σφετερισμό ενός αλλου μεγάλου του Αριστομένη Προβελέγγιου ο οποίος ελέω άλλης μιας λογικής ακροβασίας υποτίθεται πως θρηνεί για τους ίδιους λόγους για τους οποίους οι διεφθαρμένοι εργολάβοι κατόρθωσαν να τσιμεντώσουν με πενταόροφα κλουβιά όλη την Αθήνα (αλλά τότε κανένας δε μίλαγε και είχε πέσει μούγκα στη στρούγκα γιατι όλοι "παραδοσιακοί, "χουντικοί", "προοδευτικοί", όλοι τρώγανε :D) και όπου εκεί, ο αρθρογράφος προφανώς υπονοεί ότι το ίδιο κακάσχημες είναι οι πολυκατοικίες της "αντιπαροχής" με τους ουρανοξύστες οι οποίοι κοσμούν τα skylines πολλων μεγαλουπόλεων, όλα μέσα, όλα ίσωμα.

Και έστω, ας μη μιλήσουμε για Ν. Υόρκη που όντως παραείναι, ας μας πεί ο ο κος αρθρογράφος είναι άσχημο το Σίδνευ και η Μελβούρνη; Ειναι άσχημο το Seattle και το Βανκούβερ; είναι άσχημο το Τορόντο; Δηλαδή το ύψος κάνει την ασχήμια; Δεν ενοχλεί δηλαδή αν η Αθήνα είχε τσαντήρια, αρκεί τα τσαντήρια να είναι κάτω από τρία πατώματα; :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Γνωρίζετε παιδιά ότι ενώ εμείς εδώ τρέμουμε μην φανερωθεί καμμιά φωτογραφία από τον Ταύρο και το Βοτανικό όπως ειναι τώρα και την πάρουν οι καλοθελητές, κάποιοι σπουδαστές της Αρχιτεκτονικής πήγαν πριν τους Ολυμπιακούς Αγώνες μάλιστα, σε μια Biennalle και έδειξαν ολόκληρο αλμπουμ με νάαααα κάτι φωτογραφίες από τα τσαντήρια, σαν δείγμα -λέει- "αυθεντικής λαΙκής αρχιτεκτονικής"!!!

Ε συγνώμη βρε παιδιά, το ξέρω ότι ο καθείς δικαιούται να έχει τις ιδέες του και το σέβομαι. Αν όμως αυτά διδάσκονται οι νεοέλληνες -έχουμε δείγμα γραφής :D - μετά από χρόοοονια προετοιμασίας και προσπάθειας να μπούνε στο ΕΜΠ ή στη Θεσσαλονίκη, τότε που πάμε; Αν ακόμα διδασκόμαστε ότι τα μεγάλα κτίρια είναι "χουντικά" -30-35 χρόνια μετά, και ενώ έχουμε μια πόλη που ασφυκτιά και έχει ανάγκη μέτρων, σούρχεται ο άλλος και σου λέει γυρίστε 60 χρόνια πίσω σε μια Αθήνα που έφυγε κι δεν ξαναγυρνάει, μην κοιτάτε μπροστά, μην χτίζετε, μην κάνετε Ολυμπιακούς Αγώνες, να μη χτιστούν ουρανοξύστες γραφείων μπάς και γλυτώσουμε κανένα μέτρο γης, να μην πάνε έστω κάπου να μαζευτούν τα υπουργεία, τίποτα, όλα αχταρμάς, φίρδην-μίγδην, εκεί, απλά να υπηρετείται η ιδεοληψία πέντε-δέκα καθηγητάδων και των σπουδαστών τους οι οποίοι δεν παράγουν τίποτα, ενώ όλα τα σπουδαία κτίρια της τελευταίας δεκαετίας να εχουν κτιστεί είτε από ξένους (Kalatrava, Mario Botta), είτε από Έλληνες που έχουν σπουδάσει και ζήσει στο Εξωτερικό (Τομπαζης, Μπουγαδέλλης, κλπ ), ε συγνώμη αυτό δεν το δέχομαι φίλοι μου, είναι μεγάλη η κοροϊδία. Ιδίως όταν όι περισσότεροι από αυτούς είναι κρατικοδίαιτοι, δηλαδή τους πληρώνω για να με οπισθοδρομούν!!!.

Και φυσικά δε μου αρέσει η κατ' εξακολούθηση πονηρή δίκην σφετερισμού αναφορά σε σεβάσμιους ανθρώπους οι οποίοι είναι πλέον τεθνεώτες και οι οποίοι Θεός σχωρές' τους αναφέρονται σε μια άλλη Αθήνα των 200 και 600 χιλιάδων, κατοίκων όπου οι "κλίμακες" ήταν όντως ανθρώπινες πρίν τα κύματα των προσφύγων αλλά κυρίως των εργολάβων επέλθουν.

Αυτό και μόνο αποτελεί καθαρή διαστρέβλωση επιχειρημάτων, εφόσον απευθύνεται στο θυμικό και το συναίσθημα των αναγνωστων και φυσικά, κατα παγία τακτική της συγκεκριμένης συνωμοταξίας ανθρώπων ΠΟΥΘΕΝΑ μα ΠΟΥΘΕΝΑ ΔΕΝ ΠΡΟΤΕΙΝΕΤΑΙ Τ Ι Π Ο Τ Α.

Καταλαβαίνετε τι γίνεται εδώ πέρα επί δεκαετίες; Αυτά τα ακούω από μικρό παιδί, γι' αυτό διαολίζομαι...

...και φυσικά δεν είναι ανάγκη να σας πείσω. Απλά σας προκαλώ να σκεφτούμε όλοι μας λίιιιγο διαφορετικά. Και συγνώμη για τη μακρηγορία.

GM2263 I think the following points about modern Greek attitudes might be relevent to your discussion regarding the "highrise taboo" in Athens:

Ότι οι Έλληνες είναι τεχνόφοβοι -ή τεχνοφόβοι η τεχνοφοβικοί- είναι ένα διαπιστωμένο γεγονός. Από έρευνες, από στατιστικές, από την καθημερινή μας εμπειρία. Το ερώτημα είναι

1. Γιατί είναι τεχνόφοβοι;

2. Γιατί είναι επιλεκτικά τεχνόφοβοι; Π. χ. γιατί δεν φοβούνται τα κινητά, ή τα αυτοκίνητα, που είναι κορυφαία τεχνολογικά επιτεύγματα;

Έχω δώσει μερικές απαντήσεις στα άρθρα μου και στα βιβλία μου – ιδιαίτερα στην «Ψηφιακή Ζωή». Προτάσεις ερμηνείας:

1. Οι Έλληνες είναι αφόρητα συντηρητικοί. Τους έχουν εκπαιδεύσει – σχεδόν ντοπάρει – να κοιτούν πάντα προς τα πίσω, να λατρεύουν την παράδοση και τους Αρχαίους. Είναι χαρακτηριστικό αυτό που γράφει ο Richard Feynman που ήρθε στην χώρα μας και μίλησε με πολλούς: «Υπογραμμίζουν με έμφαση το πόσο υπέροχοι ήταν οι αρχαίοι Έλληνες – και πραγματικά ήταν υπέροχοι. Όταν όμως τους πεις: "Ναι, αλλά κοίταξε πόσο πιο μπροστά από τους αρχαίους Έλληνες προχώρησε ο σύγχρονος άνθρωπος" – εννοώντας με αυτό την ανάπτυξη της πειραματικής επιστήμης, των μαθηματικών, την τέχνη της Αναγέννησης, το μέγα βάθος και την κατανόηση της σχετικής ρηχότητας στην αρχαία ελληνική φιλοσοφία, κλπ. - ρωτάνε: "Τι εννοείς; Τι έλλειπε από τους αρχαίους έλληνες"; Συνεχώς υποβαθμίζουν την εποχή τους και εξυψώνουν την παλιά φτάνοντας στο σημείο να θεωρούν την κατάδειξη των σημερινών θαυμάτων ως αδικαιολόγητη έλλειψη εκτίμησης προς το παρελθόν»

2. Οι Έλληνες είναι κομπλεξικοί και ανασφαλείς. Κάτι που δεν καταλαβαίνουν τους κομπλάρει. Κι αντί να κάνουν τον κόπο να το μάθουν, το απορρίπτουν ολοσχερώς.

3. Λόγω ανασφάλειας είναι και καχύποπτοι. Κάτι που έρχεται απέξω και μάλιστα από την καταραμένη Δύση και την ακόμα πιο επικατάρατη Αμερική – δεν πρέπει να είναι καλό πράγμα.

For the whole article and commentary go here http://nikosdimou.blogspot.com/
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Καλά, έτσι και αρχίσω να συμμετέχω στο blog του καταπληκτικού Ν. Δήμου δεν θα έχω ζωή στον πραγματικό κόσμο.

Δυστυχως, αν οι Αλβανοί και οι Κροάτες μας ξεπεράσουν (στο μέτρο των δυνατοτήτων τους ) αυτο θα είναι ακριβώς γιατι δεν έχουν παρελθόν.

Δυστυχώς, στην Ελλάδα αντι να ακούμε- τόχω ξαναγράψει- την κραυγή των νέων Σπαρτιατών -"Αμες δε γ' εσσόμεθα πολλώ κάρρωνες"- (και εμείς βέβαια θα γίνουμε πολύ καλύτεροι ), έχουμε πέσει σε ένα βύθιο μηρυκασμό ορισμένων πραγμάτων και ιδεολογικών αγκυλώσεων, με αποτέλεσμα να πηγαίνουμε από το ένα άκρο στο άλλο, και φυσικά πάντοτε με το λάθος τρόπο.

Οι ουρανοξύστες αποτελούν ένα από τα ταμπού της νεώτερης Ελλάδος όπως είναι η ίδρυση μη κρατικών πανεπιστημίων αλλά και η άρνηση αξιολόγησης διδασκόντων σε αυτά. Εν προκειμένω τα ιδεολήπτικά ταμπού προκαλούν και αντιφάσεις εφόσον δεν στηρίζονται σε λογικές βάσεις αλλά σε ιδεοληπτικά σκευάσματα. Παράδειγμα:

Ενώ υποτίθεται πως όλοι κόπτωνται για την ποιότητα στα πανεπιστήμια, κανένας δε θέλει την διασφάλιση της ποιότητας αυτής με επίσημες διαδικασίες. Ή το ότι ναι μεν κοπτώμεθα για τη νομιμότητα των κατασκευών αλλά όλοι νομιμοποιούν τα αυθαίρετα και για ψάξτε το, για κάποιο περίεργο λόγο, όλες οι παραβάσεις του Γενικού Οικοδομικού Κώδικα μένουν ατιμώρητες εκτός από αυτή της υπέρβασης του ύψους, σας το λέω, το πράγμα έχει μεταφυσικές :lol: προεκτασεις.

Χώρια φυσικά το γεγονός ότι όλα τα τσιφτετελάδικα και τα σκυλάδικα είναι παράνομες κατασκευές αλλά όλοι τα επιβραβεύουν με την παρουσία τους. Κατα τα άλλα, ΜΟΝΟ ο κάθε κατασκευαστής που επιδιώκει το ύψος είναι ο αποδιοπομπέος τράγος και εκεί όλοι διαρρηγνύουν τα ιμάτια τους υπέρ της "νομιμότητας".

Από την άλλη είναι τόσο παράλογοι οι νόμοι που αν θές να χτίσεις κάτι σωστά, ή "λογικά" πρέπει να παρανομήσεις, ή να ανεβούν οι τιμές στα ύψη, όπως και συμβαίνει συχνάκις οσότου περάσει η κρίση γκλαμουριάς και νεοπλουτισμού των εταιρικών πελατών (ή πέσει και το... χρηματιστήριο... :D), οπότε μιλάμε για "κρίση".

Κλασικό παράδειγμα η νέα γενεά "midget" κτιριων γραφείων στις δύο πλευρές της Κηφισίας μετά το 2000 όπου και τα ίδια τα συγκροτήματα είναι ανεπαρκούς μεγέθους και λόγω του χαμηλού συντελεστού εκμετάλλευσης οι κατασκευαστές τα χρέωναν πανάκριβα μέχρι που το 2002 -παραμονές Ολυμπιακών Αγώνων σημειωτέον- κόντεψε να