This thread will showcase the proposed new Gondola or Monorail that will link the 2 ends of the Durban Beachfront with the ICC. It will also cover all steps leading up to the final choice at the end of 2006.

In November 2005 a dedicated luxury bus service will operate on the proposed route as an interim measure to gather info about the popularity of the service and if the correct route has been chosen, so that any problems can be ironed out before construction on the permanent transport system commences

All the following information and graphics come from www.newmediageek.com and is the work of Jonathan Commons.

THE GONDOLA PROPOSAL

A proposed elevated transport system in the form of a cable way system utilizing gondolas was part of the Tsogo Sun bid for a casino license for Durban, South Africa. The bidding process required that every bid include capital expenditure that would add value to the area surrounding the casino site. Tsogo Sun is a black empowerment consortium that was selected as one of the preferred bidders that would would be permited to proceed to the next level of the bidding process. As part of their bid Tsogo Sun proposed an elevated transport system that would run the length of Durban beachfronts so called Golden Mile thereby linking the casino site at one end to the proposed harbour waterfront development at the other.

As part of the next phase in the bidding process the client was required to present their proposals to the Durban Council.

A trip on the the Golden Mile Gondola would begin at one of the stations along the route. The main station located near the casino would comprise boarding platform, workshops and retail circulation area for passengers. As the animation would only cover the first leg of the route only the main station and first station would be modeled. The stations were modeled from preliminary sketches by local architect and art deco enthusiast John Royal.

Many of the old hotels along Durbans beachfront were built during the 30's as were many of the buildings in other parts of the city. These buildings reflect the art deco style of the period thus the design of the proposed Tsogo Sun Casino reflects many elements of the style. As a extension of the casino the cable way stations are a continuation of the theme.

To clearly illustrate the operation of the gondola system including issues of concern such as disabled access and general ease of boarding, the basic mechanics of the drive system were modeled and animated to show the station platform in operation.

Durban has on its coastline some indigenous coastal dunes whose preservation are of particular interest to many local environmental groups. The client wanted the animation to accurately show the height and shape of the dunes complete with vegetation in relation to the cable way, pylons and gondolas.

Cameras were setup to follow the virtual gondolas along the first part of the route to the first station, cameras were also setup along the route to enable them to "pick up" and follow the gondola as it passed by. These provided for some dramatic animation.

Although the scene was not modeled in high detail the local landmarks and buildings that were included in the scene provided familiar surroundings that placed the elevated transport system in its proposed context.

An important consideration would be the height at which the gondolas would travel and their effect on the view from surrounding hotels as well as their effect on the privacy of hotel quests and residents occupying rooms on the lower floors.

To produce accurate visuals showing the impact of the system on the view, gondolas and pylons were accurately super imposed over photographs taken from various angles and elevations.

The stations by nature of their function are large structures, to enable the gondolas to enter and exit while still maintaining adequate ground clearance, as well as house the drive gear and mechanics of the system. The first station was also photo compo sited to give illustrate its impact and give an impression of its scale.

The route
http://www.newmediageek.com/projects/cablecar/images/volume_model_durban_640x480.jpg

The Suncoast Station
http://www.newmediageek.com/projects/cablecar/images/mainstation_1_640x480.jpg

http://www.newmediageek.com/projects/cablecar/images/mainstation_3_640x480.jpg

http://www.newmediageek.com/projects/cablecar/images/start_at_station_640x480.jpg


Passing the sand dunes
http://www.newmediageek.com/projects/cablecar/images/cable_car_2_640x480.jpg

http://www.newmediageek.com/projects/cablecar/images/cable_car_3_640x480.jpg

http://www.newmediageek.com/projects/cablecar/images/cable_car_4_640x480.jpg


The following are the superimposed versions of what the Gondola System will look like.

http://www.newmediageek.com/projects/cablecar/images/cablecar_photo_1_640x480.jpg

http://www.newmediageek.com/projects/cablecar/images/cablecar_photo_2_640x480.jpg

http://www.newmediageek.com/projects/cablecar/images/cablecar_photo_3_640x480.jpg

http://www.newmediageek.com/projects/cablecar/images/cablecar_photo_4_640x480.jpg


The Mini Town Station

http://www.newmediageek.com/projects/cablecar/images/cablecar_photo_6_640x480.jpg

The second proposal was the MONORAIL PROPOSAL

It would utilise the same route

http://www.newmediageek.com/projects/cablecar/images/monorail_1_640x480.jpg

http://www.newmediageek.com/projects/cablecar/images/monorail_2_640x480.jpg

http://www.newmediageek.com/projects/cablecar/images/monorail_3_640x480.jpg

I think the Gondola is a more sensible first step.

The monorail LOOKS great - but I think it sensibly should be tied in with the Victoria Embankment/ CBD so you can take a train non-stop from Blue Lagoon to Butlers Wharf via the Point. That must be >10km and cool enough a journey that people would do it just for the ride. Just the beachfront is a waste for a monorail.

Or is this the intention anyway?

I think the price is around US$2m per km - making that a R120m project. To be commercially viable it would have to make above R70 000 per day PROFIT, 365 days per year. I reckon that would be cool enough to be subsidised a bit by the City.

I like the monorail idea. And then later on extend it throughout the city center - would be a great mode of public transport!

The initial plan is for the line to run from the Suncoast casino at the north, to the point waterfront in the south. There will be a transfer station at north beach, where a line will go inland to the icc, city hall and all the way to warrick junction, covering the cbd in between.

Future plans include extending the line to the Kings Park Complex for the 2010 world cup, and i think in a much long term focus, include a line along the esplanade that goes past wilsons whalf and onto the warrick staton and line.

absulate waste of money. Durban is at no where hear saturation point with either traffic/ tourists/cars or population to justify such an extravagance. I mean to link the point with the casino , are those the only 2 things in Durban to link together??
I see a monorail happening in dubai, it has a a feasability which requires moving 450 000 per day to break even and there will be 15million tourists and 2.5 million people living here when its finnished.
campare to Durban with like less than a million tourists (proper paying tourists who will use the thing) and 3.5 million people whio live no where near the thing and the feasabilty study must be writen in aztec if they think it can work.
I do feasability studies for a living and there is no way this can work, never in a million years.
I hate to sound negative but a couple hundred million could be spend on so much more to benifit the masses (better roads,public transport etc) instead of a white elephant to boost the egos of a couple of polititians

nice concept, not feasible really, IMO, and its a nice idea but durban is just hosting a soccer world cup semi-final not the olympic games, it just seems premature..

its not for the soccer world cup and its money that they have been given for this specific purpose, if they do not use it, it is R100 million of wasted cash, for it is not allowed to be used for any other purpose.

Whatever happens, council will decide by the end of 2007 whether they will build it or not, for completion by either 2009 or 2010.

and mo, we not necessarily only hosting a semi final...NOTHING is cast in any form at this stage.

absulate waste of money. Durban is at no where hear saturation point with either traffic/ tourists/cars or population to justify such an extravagance. I mean to link the point with the casino , are those the only 2 things in Durban to link together??
I see a monorail happening in dubai, it has a a feasability which requires moving 450 000 per day to break even and there will be 15million tourists and 2.5 million people living here when its finnished.
campare to Durban with like less than a million tourists (proper paying tourists who will use the thing) and 3.5 million people whio live no where near the thing and the feasabilty study must be writen in aztec if they think it can work.
I do feasability studies for a living and there is no way this can work, never in a million years.
I hate to sound negative but a couple hundred million could be spend on so much more to benifit the masses (better roads,public transport etc) instead of a white elephant to boost the egos of a couple of polititians

:lol: quite right SA Boy.

I wonder - if the council had a one-off one billion rand to spend to improve the city. What would YOU spend it on. My style of public spending is always toward leveraging other capital investments...

My list:
- increase the number of planning approval people to cut the building approval process
- increase building-skills training subsidies and grants to reduce building costs whist improving average skill levels
- increase funding for small business development agencies
- expand mini-loan agencies
- improve security at key points in city
- provide funding to keep vagrants and street kids out of sight
- funding to think of smart ways to encourage less littering
- Agency to get eyesore buildings fixed up or demolished
- Provide additional funding to the best township schools so that the brightest kids (top 10%) have outstanding educations.
- I would also feed-forward funding for public buildings to be built when the current building cycle tapers off and costs come down

I reckon that much of that would cost R200m per year for 5 years. Hopefully better than a freaking monorail and a 90,000 seater stadium in Westville...

Now think what one could do with the money to be spent on the Gautrain!

this stadium in westville is another pipe dream simmilr to the INTERNATIONAL airport in Bisho or the 100 000 seater staduim in the North West somewhere. I mean cities like Sydney dont have 100 000 seater stadiums.
The stadium Idea is OK if it replaces the existing Durban eyesore of a soccer stadium and they upgrade the entire presinct, Multi story parking, better public transport from a park and ride concept , much better landscaping (it is embarresing how bad the area around kings park and the vigin health club is).
Kings Park will always have a population driven by the rugby factor and other events, but what is going to fill up a massive soccer stadium, considering the 2 most popular clubs in the countryare in JHB and even Durban people support them. Can you imagine amazulu getting 20 000 to a game never mind 100 000. so this will be another african white elephant that cost taxpayers millions a year in maintenence and upkeep.
Heres a novel idea, upgrade Kings Park to 75 000 by filling in the 2 ends and presto a finnished PAID FOR stadium ready for the world cup.

well the kings park stadium seems to be the likely winner. Plus they plan on building a hotel and an apartment building. the flats will be for students at the Sharks academy, for it is growing quickly and they think it would be best if they were based at the stadium.

other work includes the construction of a massive media facility and recording studios.

Plans are being drawn up for a scaled down stadium for the present soccer stadium site with about 40 000 capacity. but it will be domed and therefore indoor/outdoor...with an athletics track

Dysan, you were offered the position before spire asked and you declined therefore you were not intrested in the way it was setout. Dont be a brat and now demand spire redo things to suit you.
This is a forum for us all and he is doing a great job so let him do it.

oooh nice to read those old posts :) please can they be removed! thanx :) (those that dont go with the monorail/people mover thing

anyway...the interim people mover (the 10 buses) will start in 2 weeks running from the Suncoast Casino, along the beaches to the Point. From the bottom of West Street there will be a transit station to switch to the CBD route, that goes past the ICC, City hall and down to Warrick Junction and the Victoria Street market.

Gonna give it a try and will report back.

only heard about this now. nice one durbs.

They're deleted.

I am thrilled that Durban is willing to look at different transport modes. However, something that even VISUALLY cuts people off from the waterfront is a no-no in my opinion. Toronto is still paying for it after all these years, with a highway which is too expensive to demolish. Other cities have made the mistake too.

Some form of street trolley/ streetcar/ LRT system would be nice for Durban, I think.

well the other plan they have is far more extensive than this.

They want to implement a massive tram system, that would this trial route, as well as up onto the Berea, along Florida road and back through the city. There will be a route to the Kings Park Sports complex and one that heads all the way to Umhlanga! They say that this all falls under a 10 year transport plan for the city.

I think the trams would be great, for they could cover a far greater area than the monorail ever could, for a far cheaper price

the dev has taken a step closer to reality with the documentation for the new soccer stadium stating that the "people mover" will be an integral part of the cities new transport infrastructure

I just noticed this unfortunate bit in the City's press release about infrastructure improvements for 2010. Here's the press release link:

http://www.durban.gov.za/eThekwini/Council/council_news/fullsteam/view

Here's the worrying text:

Improvements in traffic and transportation would focus on road safety, especially in the Warwick Avenue area, and the creation of a people-mover system of distinctive buses with wheelchair access.
These would operate on two key routes: North-South, linking uShaka marine park and SunCoast casino; and East-West, linking back to the city and the Victoria Market.

Buses??? Sure, they'll be distinctive, but every city has buses!!! Does this mean there'll be no monorail? :-(

Most people are opposed against Gauteng Government building the Gautrain to help with current and future traffic problems in the economic Heart of Africa being Johannesburg, and you are surprised that they will not be building a Monorail on the Durban beachfront????? LOL LOL LOL (Sorry, but I am *rolling* on the floor......)

Do you have ANY idea how many people opposed the building of the JKF Airport "Airtrain" (monorail) when that was conceived???? And that train buddy, carries more than 1 million passengers a MONTH!!! Don't hold your breath.

a monorail would be good cos people could get from suncoast /north beach down to u shaka and the point without having to walk along that no go zone in the middle of those two areas. It would be great fro durbs and people would use it

just like the gautrain lol

Sumones been watching Carte Blanche, anyways, it will be cool to have a mono rail, I have been on those orange seat thingy that is there at the moment (not sure if its still there) those thing make u kak in your pants! if you fall, you die!

^^ yeh but those things arent for transport mate :)

Since when must government-sponsored public works projects make sense? Seattle has a monorail used by almost no one. The US is full of public transportation systems used by tiny fractions of daily commuters, yet governments continue to build more! They make no sense, but they are built. Durban is a government like any other, and will try to build all kinds of grandiose projects.

I have no idea whether tourists would actually use a monorail to get from the casino to uShaka, but if built, it would certainly be an icon for the city. I do think tourists would be more likely to use it than use a bus. Monorails offer views, buses offer...economic sense! (But try selling economic sense in a guidebook.)

As far as opposition to the project (assuming it is ever built, an assumption on which the city's budget casts doubt), you can't compare it to Gautrain or JFK's AirTrain. Both of those involve(d) heavy construction in the middle of established urban areas. Gautrain, for example, involves tunnelling, right-of-way purchase, etc.

By contrast, the Durban project is at the city's physical edge, would not many require rights-of-way purchases (if built on the beach), and certainly wouldn't require tunnelling. Some Golden Mile residents might complain that their views will be blocked. But honestly, if you live on a tourist strip crowded with vendors, amusement rides, giant beach floodlights, etc., a monorail would not dent your quality of life much! :)

That being said, let's be realistic: the city hasn't allocated the funds, Suncoast walked away from its financial committment, so maybe the thing will never get beyond the concept stage.

^^ Just for clarity. Suncoast have made a payment of R112m to the city for the "people-mover" system. it has been put into a separate account and can only be used for this purpose.

Secondly, no firm decision has been made on the method of transport yet. I attended a council sitting on the matter a few weeks back and a specialist from Tokyo who undertook an analysis for the city gave a report back. His findings are not public knowledge however. A decision will be made by mid 2007, for construction will take only 18 months.

hope that helps :)

Dysan, thanks for the info. So Suncoast (Tsogo) resolved their dispute with the City Council? I remember reading in January that Tsogo claimed they were losing money, and refused to make good on the payments they promised the city in order to build the people mover.

No, what Suncoast stated was that they were no longer going to build the "high adrenalin theme park", but were rather going to build a parkade, 4 star (instead of 3 star hotel) and increased retail space. The city saw this as a cop out, for they are under license requirements to provide a "must-see" attraction in addition to the casino. That was the prime reason for allowing them to develop on such a prime beachfront property. They claimed they werent making as much profit as they hoped for, but they are still making a killing!! Casino groups the world over will do anything to get out of commitments and pledges they make.

The money is a no go area, for it was one of the clinchers that got them the license in the first place.

If i was the council i would aim to reclaim the waterworld land that Suncoast were supposed to develop and sell it to someone that will develop it into an assett for the city, instead of leaving it to fall apart.

Oh yeh waterworld, I forgot about that

yes waterworld!

The site north of waterworld is destined to be a beach hotel (council about to launch tenders for it), so it needs to be converted into an attraction!!

Exellent stuff, so are they going to demolish the waterworld?

hope so as its a bit old now . Always thought the casion licence involved a new waterworld

yeh make like an Atlantis with the new hotel, incorperate the water world with the hotel!

wow

i stayed down there in 2002 - once you left the beachfront it was pretty grim

the beachfront itself was amazing - i have some pics here... http://www.worldisround.com/articles/14637/index.html

if you wanna see em

hope so as its a bit old now . Always thought the casion licence involved a new waterworld

It originally involved a high adrenalin theme park. The waterworld became unneeded with the uShaka Wet and Wild park now open.

Trying to get info out of suncoast is a nitemare tho, they dont release a thing!

Regards the monorail, the branded buses to test the viability will come into service again for the june/july period

Ah i see with ushaka there waterworld is crap and due to be redeveloped. goodbye old friend. I can still remember the opening day there as a kid

Wasn't Waterworld demolished shortly after uShaka opened?
Why are these buses only in service during holiday time? What happens to them the rest of the year?

Wasn't Waterworld demolished shortly after uShaka opened?
Why are these buses only in service during holiday time? What happens to them the rest of the year?

1) If you drive past you will see that a portion was demolished, but the rest still stands.

2) They arent only in service during holiday time, but at critical periods. this is being done to test the usage of them at these times, before a complete rollout 365 days a year takes place in november.

I see these new fance bus stops are complete now in the city center, but they still make no sense at all, normaly bus stops drift of the road into a stop for them so the traffic doesnt get affected, but these new ones, come out onto the road! so the bus will stop on the road its self!

^^ those lanes are also about to be converted into bus lanes

What's the status regarding this?

This is the best update i can give.

The city has the buses that will temporarily do the route. however there is a court order against them using them, so they are sitting around waiting. The reason for the court order is that the company that has the license to run the Durban transport buses believes it should have the license to run these as well. the city didnt see it that way and they are in court.

The actual monorail or tram will only be built once the buses have been operating so as to gauge the level of demand for the service. so until the court case is over, the buses will not start running. terrible i know!!

But do you think that by 2010 everything will be in order?

I hope it will succeed as Durban always keeps its promises. There was a monorail about a year ago that was proposed for Fourways in Joburg, but haven't heard anything about it up to now and if you have to go thereby Fourways now, you will see about 4 to 5 Commercial and Office developments.

I hope it will succeed as Durban always keeps its promises. There was a monorail about a year ago that was proposed for Fourways in Joburg, but haven't heard anything about it up to now and if you have to go thereby Fourways now, you will see about 4 to 5 Commercial and Office developments.

AFAIK the monorail for Fourways is still on. I have uncles who are very involved in the consruction industry in Gauteng and they seem to think it is all systems go. The monorail will apparently link Fourways Mall to the new Shopping centre being built on the corner of Witkoppen and Cedar Roads.

The Council tabled a motion in Feb 2005 to invite proposals from the pvt sector on the system within 18 months of their meeting (see: http://www.durban.gov.za/eThekwini/Council/minutes/em2005/20050222). That works out to August 2006, just over a month from now. Given the delays with the court action I suspect the council will have to make decision one way or the other very soon as construction and related activities can be expected to take at least 2 yrs. That means they will have to start the initiative by middle of 2007, at the latest, to be sure of finishing by 2010. I'm sure Mike Sutcliffe's trip to Germany will jack him up on the need to get the city's transport system finalised asap.

According to surveys conducted by the Council 51 percent of people interviewed preferred a monorail system, while nine percent were calling for a "road train" (see: http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=180&art_id=vn20050223065314735C883165). Hotels along the route said they would be prepared to subside it, which would be good news in terms of financial viability. Project is expected to cost approx R230 m, although I think it will creepup to at least R250 m.

AFAIK the monorail for Fourways is still on. I have uncles who are very involved in the consruction industry in Gauteng and they seem to think it is all systems go. The monorail will apparently link Fourways Mall to the new Shopping centre being built on the corner of Witkoppen and Cedar Roads.

Thanks Bro, its not easy to navigate through Fourways when you do your shopping, Fourways Mall, Monte Casino, Fourways Crossing etc.

Cigar, can you get some images and more information regarding this .e.g start date, design etc

Thanx for the Info Roman, Mo Rush and them...what's happening in CT in regards to the transport issue.

Johannesburg = Gautrain, "Rea Vaya", upgraded Metrorail" and Monorail

I'll try my best but I can't promise anything re the images of the pics of the monorail. :)

umm...what is the point of the fourways monorail? its not really a transport system

Looks like it's going to be trams. Wish those damn buses would get going - at this rate the "interim" people mover will be doing its first trips after the permanent system is in place! The article says August but the date has been moved so many time before...Anyway trams will be nice.


Tram system mooted for Durban
June 30, 2006 Edition 1

Carvin Goldstone

SENIOR city officials hinted yesterday that Durban would opt for a tram system for the much-anticipated permanent "people-mover" network.

Other options have included a monorail.

Addressing Durban's diplomatic corps yesterday, the city's Head of Strategic Planning, Julie-May Ellingson, said Durban's major transport plan involved a tram system linking all the key tourism nodes and the King's Park Sporting Precinct, where the new 70 000-seater stadium would be built.

"We have had expressions of interest from American and French companies and we firmly believe we can have a tram system in place by 2010."

Ellingson and City Manager Michael Sutcliffe have just returned from a visit to Germany, which is hosting the 2006 soccer World Cup.

She said the interim people-mover - comprising 10 luxury buses operating along a route linking uShaka Marine World, Suncoast Casino and the Durban city centre - should be operational by August.

Ellingson and Sutcliffe yesterday unveiled a strategic plan to transform the entire beachfront from uShaka to Blue Lagoon into a "fan zone" - for the 2010 World Cup - which would boast underground parking and a tram system to back up the interim people-mover.

The city council agreed at yesterday's council meting at the KwaMashu Sport and Recreation Centre to increase funding for the first phase of redevelopment of the old Sea World site - known as the West Street beach node - by R4.6 million. This will take the estimated cost to the council for the promenade improvement to R18.6 million.

The city will also build an underground parkade at the West Street node and it has plans to extend the wide pedestrian promenade stretching from Blue Lagoon to uShaka.

The Honorary Consul for South Korea, Rory Macpherson, said the presentation had been exciting and had showed the city was committed to providing a world-class environment. However, he said he was disappointed because the city had not referred to safety and security.

"The city has spent hundreds of millions on world-class facilities when we have a situation where crime is at such a high level," he said.

Macpherson felt yesterday's briefing would have been the perfect opportunity for the city to outline its plan for safety.

While the people-mover buses would boast closed-circuit television cameras, Macpherson said, there had been no indication as to who would monitor the cameras.

Sutcliffe said security was being handled superbly in Germany and would be a priority for Durban in 2010.

ya same thing, i said in the Durbs disscusion

The Mercury also posted a pic of a tram on its front page in its lead to the story. If that's the tram Durban can expect then I'm all in favour if it. Looked very sleek and modern, almost like a monorail but more square-shaped. My hope is that ithe network will eventually include Florida Rd and Wilson's Wharf too (and if Umhlanga can be included that would be a dream come true).

Florida Rd and Wilsons Whalf are very plausible destinations for the people mover, since both are highly trafficed areas and close to the main route. Also finding parking in Florida rd is impossible and it would do much to increase the number of people going there, without incresing the need for more parking

Well now that we know that it will be trams and not a monorail, lets try figure out the routing. obviously the beachfront to the point is simple, but how will it work through the cbd, icc and to the stadium? i do hope that it gets extended to florida road!!

Confirmed 1: North-South (Suncoast to Ushaka)

Confirmed 2: East-West (West St/beachfront intersection to ICC)

Possible 1: East-West extension (ICC-Victoria Street Market) - I have no idea how they will route this or whether this will be feasible. They will have to clean up the crime in the Grey Street and surrounds area big time if they want to attract tourists to this quarter.

Hopeful 1: North-South (West Street [City Hall precinct] to Victoria Embankment strip

Hopeful 2: East-West (Florida Rd/Argyle Rd corner to beachfront, joining up with North-South beachfront route)

Trams on confirmed 1 + 2; likely bus routes starting / ending on tram routes (tickets interchangable with trams) servicing possible 1, and hopeful 1 + 2. Plus, buses from Ushaka to Blue Lagoon precinct.

Thanx buddy!

Of course the real 'blue-sky' dream project will be a tram / up-market train linking Umhlanga with the tram system in downtown Durban. I would love it to run from the village, past Gateway, down the stretch of Umhlanga Ridge, down Umhlanga Rocks Drive (past all the office blocks and past Sunningdale, Durban North, thus giving it a huge potential market, esp immediately before and after working hrs), then down past the top of the emerging Kensington precinct, past Riverside Hotel, over the bridge, linking with a node at Blue Lagoon, which in turn will be linked by bus / tram to Suncoast and the other routes. Couple this with the suggested /possible routes above and almost all the major entertainment nodes in Durban will be linked. You could then travel from Umhlanga Village to Wilson Wharf. Might take a while but it could be done!

For likely routes, I forget to mention a likely tram / bus link from the new stadium to the Ushaka node. In the event of a tram link being the option, I think the North-South 'ends' willl be the new stadium and Ushaka, with Suncoast being the 2nd last stop.

Well the tram is def going to go all the way to the stadiums transport hub, with bus/taxi (metered)/train and tram transmodal hub. The umhlanga plan is good, but i dont think trams are right for travelling 20km! Just improve the bus network and link it with the new umhlanga transport system that moreland are putting in place

True, a tram might not be feasible because of its speed and the distance. Then how about a bullet-train system ala the Gautrain? *Snicker* Can you imagine national govt being asked to fund that? LOL!

Of course, luxury buses will be more feasible but we can still dream, right??

Guys - was in San Diego earlier this year, and they have an awesome tram system - very modern airconditioned - would imagine similar to what is proposed for Durban - we caught it all the way to Mexican border - 15 miles away - so it is feasible to link to Umhlanga though imagine a Blue Lagoon/Stadium - La Lucia Mall/Ridge - Gateway - Umhlanga loop would be more realistic.

Thats interesting...so u say three different trams? having to change on route?

I didnt know that trams went that far...it could be feasible then long term, for central durban and umhlanga are going to need good connections in the coming years with all the growth, and there is no rail line anywhere near umhlanga

nope, just think you are going to need an interchange somewhere, otherwise if route was on one big loop could take a while to get anywhere.
I was thinking that the 'North' route could start at Suncoast/Stadium area and then head out maybe stopping at Hypermarket (loads of parking to drop car and head into city?) then, stop at La Lucia Mall, onwards to the offices on the Ridge, to the NTC, then down to Umhlanga villiage and back into town, or vice versa... (potential for a an express link to King Shaka airport shouldn't be discounted...

u think u could take trams routes all the way to the airport??? i was always of the idea that trams were for inner city travel, not distance.

I think the loop idea would work well, with the plans for the transmodal station at the new stadium complex. would make travel so much easier! Get out of the freaking traffic

Forget about running a tram to the new airport. It's physically possible, but Dysan's correct about the trams' nature - they're for intra-city trips, not for covering any major distance.

Trams in Europe do cover some significant distances, but European countries have very transit-oriented populations. The South Africans who can afford to fly are more similar to Americans in habits and wealth - they can afford to fly, and they can afford to drive to the airport. The US cities that have tram service to their airports have very low ridership on those lines (St. Louis and Baltimore come to mind), and that's low even by already low American standards! Even cities with a 'heavy' rail rapid transit link to the airport (e.g., Atlanta and Cleveland) have low ridership.

I have confirmation from Moreland that the tram system for the inner city will have a line running to Umhlanga and that they are pushing work ahead on it so that it is operational by 2010. This is in addition to the bus service for umhlanga.

VERY GOOD news

This is GREAT news. This will totally integrate Umhlanga with the rest of the major tourist nodes on the beachfront (and ICC) that we know for sure the tram system will be linked to. I just wish that Vic Embankment and Florida Rds are included too. That would make it a dream network.

wow if they could get a branch going to florida road from umhlanga and then going down to U Shaka that would be great!!!!

If it's going to go all the way to Umhlanga then surely it'll also go Florida Rd since it's close to the new stadium. It'll be absolutely awesome if it does to go Umhlanga! I'm sure over time it'll also develop new routes to include the esplanade and more of the CBD. By 2450 it may even get up to me in Hillcrest!

yeh...we'll have to wait and see i guess

wicked if the get the tram to pass thru Florida Rd, then when I buy my flat in Umhlanga I can just take the tram to work everyday :D

come be my neighbour

This thread needs its title changed...gondola to Umhlanga!? :)

lol...yeh that would be funny.

guys i will put the report up when i find time to type it out!

Which report is this, M? The Durban to Umhlanga tram line? I thought you heard this by word of mouth. If it's on paper, even better. Looking forward to it!

it was written in the latest edition of the ridge mag i picked up a few days ago. but i got confirmtion from moreland. It came from Mike Sutcliffes mouth!

will put it up soon soon, but typing it is a bitch!

^^ Yes please, please type it!!! That is such awesome news. Wonder if they'll eventually extend it all the way to the airport

how about scanning it? Might be faster.

with my magic scanning hand...

dont worry will be up tonight.

Perhaps this is part of the rail link from the new airport to the city cente? Or perhaps the trains from Umhlanga will use the same rail line? It would make sense (although it might require a slight deviation from La Mercy to Umhlanga) and cheaper too although they would have use upgraded trains to match with the high tech trams.

Sorry just to keep the topic focused in here

Looking North – And Ahead

The Ridge Magazine – September 2006

With development along the Ridge escalating at a rate of knots, many of us are wondering what the future holds for the area. Peta Lee asked City Manager Mike Sutcliffe what he thinks the next 5 years will bring.

Will the extraordinary growth we’ve witnessed in the north continue, and will it get to a point where Durban’s CBD is essentially transferred to this region and the centre of town is empty?

“Never,” he smiles. “We’ve been able to arrest the situation, so that northern developments will never take away the central business district. We’re now saying no, you cannot develop in the north at the expense of the CBD. As a result of the regeneration in the city, businesses are now saying ‘we don’t need to move to Umhlanga, we’ll stay in the CBD and be quite happy here’.

“In fact, we’re the only major city in the country where the CBD remains an attraction to residents and businesses. You only have to look at what’s happening to the Point and Victoria Embankment…you wont believe how beautiful that will be in 5 years time.”

Sutcliffe said what happened in the northern parts of the city was similar, in some ways, to what had happened in the west, with one difference.

“The Hillcrest/Kloof area has expanded almost too rapidly to keep pace with the infrastructure, but whereas in that region you have a variety of developers, in the north you really only have Moreland. Four years ago Moreland was bigger than the northern council – now it’s not. Then, during the height of economic growth, Moreland just wanted to go out and see, sell, sell… Now we – the city – are engaging better with them, and have a mutually robust relationship.” He reflects that in the 90s, most developments were marketed from an apartheid era viewpoint – security was the first consideration, and people were concerned mainly with how thick their walls were and how high the electric fencing was.

“The environment around them was almost superfluous. Buildings and developments, too, were American in style. Now, there’s a new market emerging and the pace is more in tune with the discerning upper income public living and working there. It’s more European, there are more delis, pavement cafes, piazzas, walkways…people are now aware of their surrounding beyond their walls…and the city is becoming safer, so those walls will come down eventually.”

What can these residents and businesses expect over the next 5 years?

“Public transport is a must, perhaps a light rail system, one which links the Berea to Umhlanga, and the city to the north…you’ve probably noticed we’re already putting in bus stops for the people movers (tram/bus options) and what we foresee is young people, soon, not feeling compelled to buy a car the minute they earn their first salary. Instead, they can hop on efficient public transport, which will run every 10 minutes and take them right to their destinations.” Sutcliffe said no moratoriums would be placed on development in the Ridge area, “but some kind of developers’ levy will probably be introduced”.

“There’s a massive developmental spurt at the moment, and again, if you take the upper Highway area, we don’t want to wake up one morning and sit in traffic for half an hour as we pass through what was once the beautiful little village of Hillcrest, now bursting at the seems with traffic and congestion… We want to be able to tell developers here upfront that they must contribute to a levy which will help expand the infrastructure according to the growth rate of the area.”

In fact, he adds, they’re looking at the idea of imposing a similar levy on developers throughout the city, not just in the north.

“There’re pockets of development all over: in the south for instance. And in Durban itself.”

He grins again.

“Watch this space in five year’s time. It’s going to be just great!”

The map in today's paper shows the "people mover" running from the stadium down to the stadium then along the beachfront and point up to where the new cruise tereminal will be. Then a line also runs from the beachfront right up Smith street to around Warwick triangle then down Commercial Rd back to the beachfront. Then there'll also be the line you mentioned which I assume will start from the stadium going up Florida and on to Umhlanga. From what I can gather the new Kings Park stadium will be a major hub station. Surprising to see no connection to the ICC or Durban station - but maybe that'll come.

No connection to the ICC? i thought that was part of the CBD loop?

One thing baffles me though, how does it go up Florida Road to reach Umhlanga? seems opposite directions.

The connection to ICC will probably be somewhere along the Commercial Rd route as that street borders the back of the ICC.

Yeah you're right. I forgot that with the extensions the ICC goes right up to Commercial Rd.

On the maps the new Kings Park station looks huge (almost as big as the stadium) - and the map is to scale! Looks like it'll form the centre of inner city transport.

^^ yeh i think it might become a new hub station or something. i know it is to be intermodal and will have a sizable retail component

what map? am I missing something?

Here's the link to the map DB
http://www.durban.gov.za/eThekwini/Tourism_and_Leisure/2010/2010_supplement

One thing baffles me though, how does it go up Florida Road to reach Umhlanga? seems opposite directions.

I say go up Florida Road, build tracks through Mitchell Park, bulldoze through King's House, go across the ridge, cross the river on a giant viaduct, and then straight on along the hill to Gateway! :jk:

I've had a look at the maps (thanks Greg for posting the link. BTW, anyone else have trouble opening map 2? I can't get it to work.), and map 3 presents two confusing symbols. A thick yellow line represents the people mover. But the map also shows several thin dashed red lines for something called 'non-motorised transport.' Surely this doesn't mean what it literally says, right? Why would non-motorised transport be used to get people to/from Florida Rd. and Umhlanga? Will we put tourists in rickshas for the 5-hour trek to Umhlanga? :)

If we assume that the dashed red line is also part of a motorised tram system, then I think the routing looks almost sensible, given the various locations that must be linked. Like Dysan said, Umhlanga and Florida will be difficult to link directly. Map 3 seems to reflect this fact by showing 2 different lines, 1 along Argyle, 1 parallel to the beach, with an interchange at NMR & Argyle. It would be ideal if passengers from Umhlanga (i.e., me!) didn't have to change trams to get to Florida Rd., but beggars can't be choosers.

One thing that puzzles me is the 'beachfront' route. Maybe there isn't sufficient room, but it would be better if the trams run along the Marine & Snell Parades along the whole length of the beachfront. As shown on the map, the trams run behind the beachfront buildings.

Las Vegas built a monorail and made a similar mistake: instead of locating the route directly adjacent to The Strip (the city's showplace street), the monorail was 'hidden' on a parallel road, blocked from view by casinos, and this requires passengers to walk a few blocks to reach The Strip, all the while unable to see their destination, which often confuses tourists. If the tram runs directly along the Parades, passengers will be able to see the beach, see their destination, and even be able to make snap decisions. ('Oh, I wanted to go to uShaka, but this North Beach place looks nice. I'll get off here, and continue to uShaka later.' If the tram runs behind the beachfront hotels, no one in their right mind would think that Gillespie Street looks inviting enough to make unplanned stop!)

One other change that should be made: The north-south red dashed line ends near City Hall. Why? It should extend south to the Embankment (especially if the city has any hopes of reviving that run-down area - which has some of the city's best architecture, and potentially some of the best harbour views).

non motorised transport is the provision of cycle paths.

but i do hear ur arguments. i personally see the route as provisional. they will implement the bus service to test the route and make changes where necesisary before putting the permanent tram line in place.

i do agree that the beach route should go along the main road. much better

Thanx for the map Greg,

greg u are a bit of a ferret urself! thanx! you do always find interesting stuff

I also think it would be a big mistake to build the monorails on the backroads. The visual appeal would be lost.

Re: linking up Umhlanga and Florida Rd, I think this will occur where the M4 meets Argyle Rd (which, of course, leads to Florida Rd), not a direct link betw the two per se.

I wish they'd just do something! If all the delays are caused by Remant Alton they are clearly too inempt to be running this service.

People-mover fleet gathering dust
October 10, 2006 Edition 1
Greg Ardé

A FLEET of fancy buses - the forerunner to Durban's people mover - have been gathering dust in a city depot for more than six months.

But, the 10 low-slung buses, worth more than R1 million each, will see service soon.

They will be run by Remant Alton, the black economic empowerment company contracted by the municipality to provide a bus service in Durban. Remant Alton, headed by ANC stalwart Diliza Mji, was awarded the city bus tender in 2003 and has been bedevilled by problems since.

Apart from the fact that 63 buses were found to be unroadworthy, Remant Alton has been locked in an ownership dispute that was resolved last month.

The company's directors finally achieved an out-of-court settlement with bus drivers who claimed they were cut out of their fair share in the BEE privatisation deal with the city.

The Mercury was tipped off that the people-mover buses were parked on blocks because of Remant Alton's internal woes.

However, an inspection of the buses at the Mobeni depot revealed a line of buses that were dusty, but otherwise apparently ready for action.

Remant Alton operations Manager Dan Cloete refused to be drawn on the issue, saying only: "We are in discussions with the city, waiting for them to come back to us on our proposal (around costs and service to run the people mover).

"We've been talking about this for some time."

Opposition party councillors John Steenhuisen and Gladwin Ndlela both sit on the city's executive committee, but said they were none the wiser about the buses.

Steenhuisen, of the DA, said: "The people mover was promised with the development of Suncoast Casino, which was built at least four years ago. Durban has suffered the effects of not having a safe people mover - which is witnessed by the fact that we've had attacks on tourists and conference delegates - and that affects our international reputation.

"We understand there needs to be a pilot scheme for the people mover, but there seems to be a veil of secrecy around the decision-making on this and all information is in the hands of a few officials."

The IFP's Ndlela said: "We support the idea of a people mover, but the fact that the buses aren't operating and are sitting somewhere is of concern. We don't have a clear explanation as to why the buses aren't operating. It is a waste of taxpayers' money."

Erik Moller, the Deputy Head of the eThekwini Transport Authority, referred inquires to Municipal Manager Michael Sutcliffe, who is handling negotiations with Remant Alton. Sutcliffe said he expected the buses to be in operation before the end of the year. He said the delay was "partly" because of Remant Alton's dispute with its workers, but also because there had been discussions with shop owners affected by the people mover change station at the top end of West Street.

"I am due to meet them (Remant Alton) this week. We are almost ready to go . . . I would say a month to finish construction (around the change station) and a month of training to test the system. Most of the bus shelters are done."

Sutcliffe said the buses would be equipped with closed-circuit television for security.

He said the buses were a pilot for the city's people mover, and should be regarded as a taste of what was to come.

"The ultimate system will be bus and tram."

Sutcliffe said he hoped to talk with the national Transport Department's director-general soon about funding for the complete people mover system.

Deputy Mayor Logie Naidoo (ANC), said: "We must apologise to the community at large for the delays associated with this. We had hoped the people mover would be fully operational by now.

"It is our intention to have the buses running for a year to determine passenger figures before we implement the tram system. We want the tram system to be implemented smoothly, unlike the Gautrain, which has been fraught with problems."

According to the city's 2010 business plan, the eThekwini Council will ask the national government for R718 million to fund a new inner-city people mover, which in total will cost an estimated R845 million.

Aimed at alleviating traffic congestion, the system of trams and buses is "intended to form the backbone of the inner-city public transport service" during and beyond the 2010 soccer World Cup.

Did anyone see that picture of the buses? they look pretty snazy

They do look good but the way things are going the first time we'll see them on the road will be at vintage rallys

Gents, are they on the road already? I thought that there's problem with them being on the road?

as the article states they are not on the road, but have been sitting in the mobeni depot for months. Remnant should not get the contract to operate these, they are doing a kak job on the normal buses.

On NMR ave, the last last on the side of DCC, theres a broken yellow line, whats that for? is that a lane just for the new buses, or something else?

saw it myself...might have to do with the new cycle lanes they putting in in the area

Here is the people mover route and times of operation

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/Tramandbusrouteplan.jpg

Interesting. I like the way they've highlighted attractions on the routes.
But I read a few days ago that the startup date is STILL undetermined!

Thanks for posting. Hope it becomes a reality soon.

Good map. Seems relatively easy to use. Now, if only there were buses... :)
Odd thing though: Any idea why the North & South lines operate as a single line at all times, except during peak hours? Does no one want to go directly from Suncoast to uShaka at 5pm?

And I still say those beachfront lines need to run on the Parades. I can't imagine what tourists will think of Durban's beachfront if they have to travel along Gillespie Street in order to reach the beach!

Interesting to see The Wheel on the map. It's an obvious landmark, and a striking building. But what the hell is in The Wheel these days?

^^ surprisingly the wheel is nearly fully let with most national tenants. i wldnt go shopping there myself but it is doing rather well.

Regards the route, the main reason it is running off the main marine parade is actually really simple. Not everyone will like the reason, but i think it is a great step forward for the city. The council intend Closing the marine parade to vehicle traffic and making it solely for pedestrians. I actually spoke with an official that is dealing with the people mover and the plan is to route the tram thru parts of the pedestrianised parade.

To answer your other question. The route changes at peak periods so that the people mover serves more of a public transport facility for the beachfront residents that work in town. Hence greater capacity is needed on the town route and hence the north south loses preference to commuters. to me it does seem the most logical need being fulfilled

I hope that it does get routed through at least part of the Marine Parade other than just in front of Suncoast, and straight onto the backroads as initial diagrams seem to indicate. Will make for great postcard shots and will become one of the city's icons.

Those back roads need a big makeover, otherwise tourists aren't going to want to get off the bus!

Agreed!! Especially Gillespie St, down to Ushaka.

Good map. Seems relatively easy to use. Now, if only there were buses... :)
Odd thing though: Any idea why the North & South lines operate as a single line at all times, except during peak hours? Does no one want to go directly from Suncoast to uShaka at 5pm?

And I still say those beachfront lines need to run on the Parades. I can't imagine what tourists will think of Durban's beachfront if they have to travel along Gillespie Street in order to reach the beach!

Interesting to see The Wheel on the map. It's an obvious landmark, and a striking building. But what the hell is in The Wheel these days?

I remember reading that the wheel was sold for some crazy figure and there were plans for a cmplete refurbishment

the sale didnt go through, the owner was oversea's at the time of the auction, & the offer was for R100 million, which was taken by the auctioner's but was later told was'nt enough by the client, they spent a hell of alot of money re-doing the place & they want over R200 million for it.

the sale didnt go through, the owner was oversea's at the time of the auction, & the offer was for R100 million, which was taken by the auctioner's but was later told was'nt enough by the client, they spent a hell of alot of money re-doing the place & they want over R200 million for it.

Until the surrounding area is fixed up, I wouldn't pay R2 for The Wheel. When I drove to uShaka for dinner on a Sunday night in August, there was trash blowing across Point Rd (or Brickhill, or whatever it's called directly behind The Wheel on the landward side), loiterers drinking in public, and women who were either prostitutes or simply going to a costume party dressed as prostitutes, standing on the corners at Smith and Winder. Urban blight at its finest! (That said, the area along Point Rd. south of The Wheel and north of the Point Waterfront, while still dodgy at best, looks a little better than it has in at least 15 years.)

and women who were either prostitutes or simply going to a costume party dressed as prostitutes, standing on the corners at Smith and Winder.

:lol:

I agree. That is the worst part of Durban. I will go as far as calling it the city's armpit. If that 150 m strip can be cleaned up it would improve the whole area.

Yeh that 150m stretch aint good at all, but as pointed out, once you pass it, it is much much better.

The thing is that there alot of people they need to move out for the whole area to grow. i personally believe that rising prices in the area will drive the poor out for the buildings will change hands and the new owners will not want the current state to prevail (the chnages with the Tong lok building post its sale aim towards this goal).

Also, the current access road from the point back to durban is going to be converted into a 2 way road until the point road has redeveloped sufficiently. this will happen once the new road is complete ( they still have a few more buildings to demolish...should be complete by mid 2007) It will start at the city lodge and totally bypass the dodgy point area by cutting back behind that road

Are you sure these are the plans Mike? I will be the happiest person if that is the case. That dodgy area really spoils the trip to Ushaka, creating a poor 1st impression for visitors, although Ushaka and the Point Waterfront more than make up for it when they arrive. Thankfully the trip back from these destinations totally avoids that strip, leaving a visitor with a good final impression.

The other thing the Metro have to deal with is making sure that the hobos do not sleep around the the beach areas during the day. I hate it when people are messing up nice things. But I'm posetive that by 2009 Durban will be out of this world.

Dysan,

When you respond to roman's message about the Point access roads, could you also tell us about the routes the new road(s) will take? In August I saw alot of demolition work on buildings west of Point/Brickhill, and east of Prince Alfred, but I'm still not sure of the route for the new road(s). (And both times I was in the area were at night, so I wasn't keen to do alot of exploring just to figure out the route! :) )

These are the plans, but they are not the permanent plans, for once the point is home to 1000s of people the one way system will need to be implemented. The reason for the new road is to take preassure off the roads into town and around the ICC.

It will start out side the City Lodge on Brickhill and head inland at a 30 degree angle. If you drive thru the parts of the new road already open (from the point exit road you used to have to turn left towards the Vic embankment to leave, know you just head straight) you will see some buildings have actually been cut in half. This will link thru to Brickhill at City Lodge going thru all those areas between Prince Alfred and Brickhill. the entire road is new.

I will try get a map to show you. it will serve well for the interim. but will revert to a one way in to the point (point rd) and one way out (the new one) once point rd is sufficiently revitalised and when a certain traffic volume is reached...most likely in 5 years time

Thanks, Dysan.

Are you sure it heads inland from the City Lodge? There's a little used street that runs seaward just south of that spot (in fact, I think that street, John Milne used to be close to through traffic). I assumed that was to be partof the project, so that the new access route would look like this:
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p208/c_labate/PointRoadMap.jpg

no that road is not to be used according to official city reports. while that would make sense from existing layouts it does not tie in with the cities plan to rejuvenate that area and turn it into a major pedestrian zone, with mixed use buildings lining the roads. i'll ammend it to show u how the the road will be

Updates please.

Im not sure about the status of this project, but i can confirm that light rail will not be included in the people mover system unless additional funds are provided by the treasury.

The project will use buses. Nice buses, but buses nonetheless. No rail of any kind in the current plans.

What about that monorail linking key site in Cbd & Umhlanga?

What about that monorail linking key site in Cbd & Umhlanga?

That's a separate project from the People Mover. (See this municipal press release (http://www.durban.gov.za/eThekwini/Services/services_news/tourist_ticket/view)about the People Mover buses.)
But now that the central govm't have turned off the money taps, I doubt a big ticket project such as a rail connection to Umhlanga goes anywhere anytime soon. :(

Guys guys guys...lets clear some things up (once AGAIN).

The buses were always going to be put in service before any decision of tram was made, that has been stated over and over and over and over and over and over.

The city needs to gauge the use of the system, where the flaws are and what areas may need more stops and the like before they implement the permanent system. The bus system was planned to run a minimum of 2 years before a decision is to be made on keeping buses or putting in a tram based service.

From the way you guys go on one would think that you never bother to go and read back on previous pages.........

Here's routing of the new exit road from the point which is opening up a prime new development coridor. Bay Terrace Views is situated on it, as well as the 3 other planned highrise developments under tyson properties belt.

Many buildings were demolished for the road, and others cut in half. the end result is however very pleaseing on the eye and avoids the bottle neck in the cbd

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/PointRoadMap.jpg

Dysan, I remember very well that the buses were meant to be a preliminary stage. But at this point, given budget constraints, I think that preliminary stage will be longer than anyone thought. The city's most recent press release makes no mention of rail. Just a guess here, but if rail construction were imminent, or were planned to be completed before 2010, I bet the city's PR folks would mention that. Also, last week's articles about stadium funding made clear that some People Mover funds will be diverted to stadium construction, because of stadium budget problems. Taken together, these things indicate to me that the city were caught out on budget matters, that there isn't as much money available as they hoped originally. Thus, I'd be surprised (pleasantly) if any rail portions of the People Mover are in place by 2010.

Thanks for the Point Exit Route map. That new road will make a big difference, especially if the city can coordinate the robots to minimise stopping times. I can't wait until the day when that whole area from uShaka to the ICC is vibrant and redeveloped. But in the meantime, I want to get through there as fast as possible!

Dysan, I remember very well that the buses were meant to be a preliminary stage. But at this point, given budget constraints, I think that preliminary stage will be longer than anyone thought. The city's most recent press release makes no mention of rail. Just a guess here, but if rail construction were imminent, or were planned to be completed before 2010, I bet the city's PR folks would mention that. Also, last week's articles about stadium funding made clear that some People Mover funds will be diverted to stadium construction, because of stadium budget problems. Taken together, these things indicate to me that the city were caught out on budget matters, that there isn't as much money available as they hoped originally. Thus, I'd be surprised (pleasantly) if any rail portions of the People Mover are in place by 2010.

Thanks for the Point Exit Route map. That new road will make a big difference, especially if the city can coordinate the robots to minimise stopping times. I can't wait until the day when that whole area from uShaka to the ICC is vibrant and redeveloped. But in the meantime, I want to get through there as fast as possible!

well, the kings park station is basically adjacent to the stadium..so thats no problem...

well, the kings park station is basically adjacent to the stadium..so thats no problem...

True enough, but I don't really understand how that substitutes for a new rail network that will serve the upmarket/tourist areas. The present rail network serves township commuters, and does so with outdated rolling stock. We all know that few if any international soccer fans or tourists will use it, because it doesn't go anywhere near their hotels/tourist areas/new business parks (e.g., Umhlanga). Even with updated rolling stock, the route network is a problem, because the prime tourist areas aren't served. The system simply wasn't built to do anything other than move thousands of labourers from townships to CBD jobs.

Guys guys guys...lets clear some things up (once AGAIN).

The buses were always going to be put in service before any decision of tram was made, that has been stated over and over and over and over and over and over.

The city needs to gauge the use of the system, where the flaws are and what areas may need more stops and the like before they implement the permanent system. The bus system was planned to run a minimum of 2 years before a decision is to be made on keeping buses or putting in a tram based service.

From the way you guys go on one would think that you never bother to go and read back on previous pages.........

YaI put my hand up to that, hardly have time to read everything, so excuse my lack of knowledge on the subject. Regarding the new buses, the 'special stations' they put up are still cocked up, the seats (which look like bucket holder's) are still facing away from the road, with the peoples backs facing the oncoming traffic making it impossible for the waiting passengers to see the bus coming, this topic has been brought up before in the press, but I see nothings happened, it will be pretty embarrasing come 2010, plus theres only 2 seats there, I mean there will be easy 10-15 ppl waiting for the bus, & they cant put 10-15 seats, but atleast 5 or 6 seats should be alocated per station.

^^ they released a statement recently saying that against popular belief the seats were designed to face the way they are to keep the sun out of waiting passengers eyes. Does it really matter if they face the coming bus or not??? its gonna stop anyway and there is a security/info person at EVERY bus stop so he can let people know too.

Regards the more permanent system. i dont see it being ready for 2010, but then again it was never planned for that time either. The funding for the project was always coming out of city funds and not national gov (ala gaugravytrain). Sure wel will hear more in the weeks and months ahead

True enough, but I don't really understand how that substitutes for a new rail network that will serve the upmarket/tourist areas. The present rail network serves township commuters, and does so with outdated rolling stock. We all know that few if any international soccer fans or tourists will use it, because it doesn't go anywhere near their hotels/tourist areas/new business parks (e.g., Umhlanga). Even with updated rolling stock, the route network is a problem, because the prime tourist areas aren't served. The system simply wasn't built to do anything other than move thousands of labourers from townships to CBD jobs.

Well apartheid made sure of that, e.g. cape town's network all run towards the city from areas quite far away from the city. Pity the rail system in durbs still wont be up to date come 2010, ill try and check what spending there will be on improvements to the rail infrastructure..

they doing work on the stations and new rolling stock, but there is no way to take the rail network into umhlanga and the like. and frankly public transport can be far better served without rail

frankly public transport can be far better served without rail

Objectively, most of us know this is true. A Bus Rapidt Transit (BRT) line (a series of dedicated bus lanes, with fixed stops, large bus shelters and 'kneeling' buses) costs less than rail and allows greater route flexibility.

The only South Africans I know are white and haven't even considered public transport in decades, so I can't speak to South African attitudes on the bus-rail debate.

But here in the US, specifically in the northern suburbs of Washington, DC, we're debating whether to build a new link in the existing public transit network. The rail advocates note that, while everything I said above is true, fewer people will use buses, because buses suffer from an 'image problem.' They're perceived by would-be users (particularly potential middle & upper class users who're unfamiliar with buses) as slower, dirtier and more confusing than trains. Thus, even though a funcntioning BRT line could be operational sooner, and for less money, than a rail line, rail advocates point out that such a system will be underutilised, and utilised mostly by the poor, who aren't the ones clogging our roads in the first place.

Thoughts on this in relation to Durban?

Well i think the difference in Durban and indeed south africa as a whole is that of use.

Most south africans have been a bus at some point (even the higher classes) but we wld never in a million years ever consider getting on a train in this country, its like commiting suicide.

So i think trains wld not have the better perception locally than buses or trams

Well i think the difference in Durban and indeed south africa as a whole is that of use.

Most south africans have been a bus at some point (even the higher classes) but we wld never in a million years ever consider getting on a train in this country, its like commiting suicide.

So i think trains wld not have the better perception locally than buses or trams

I have to disagree,that certainly does not apply to CT. I know of many students from Simon's town, fish hoek etc. who use the train to and from UCT. If anything, the security on trains in CT, and the conditions have improved,even if only slightly. Perhaps suicidal on certain routes in CT, but then again those routes transport hundreds of thousands to and from the city centre everyday.

good points umhlanga...work has started on the BRT in cape town..still completing the barriers along the N2 that will completely separate the BRT from the normal traffic..should be interesting and from what you've mentioned i really hope its a success. BRT from what ive heard will also be used on some other routes and be ready before 2010. Im not sure about the rest of the country but trains are certainly used more often by the poor than buses are.

Remeber this, I was so excited about it. But I still believe that in years to come it will be considered for some parts of Durban.

Remeber this, I was so excited about it. But I still believe that in years to come it will be considered for some parts of Durban.

the people mover buses are the first phase in the development of this overall project. they are there to assess demand, which routes are more suited and the like, before a proper system is put in place (which is most certainly going to be tram)

so in time guys

aaahhhhh, good Mikey. I'm relieved.