Official Liverpool Thread 4 [Archive]

Red scouser

June 1st, 2005, 11:13 AM

Pub landlord's fear for 20 jobs May 31 2005
By Homa Khaleeli, Liverpool Echo

A PUB landlord faces sacking 20 staff when his Liverpool tavern is knocked down - despite there being no plans for the site.

The Cooper's Emporium Bar in Kingston House on James Street has been open for 10 years and has a special place in the hearts of its regulars.

But it is going to be demolished by the Northwest Development Agency even though it has not yet submitted any plans outlining what it wants to do with the land.

Landlord Les Brown, 58, said he must shut the pub and move out by June 5. He wants the agency to allow him to stay until he can find a suitable new site, as he thinks any plans they want could take a year to finalise.

He said: "Why can't we stay until they have a reason to knock it down? Last night people were crying and saying 'Where are we going to go?'.

"It's a unique bar and Liverpool will miss it if it goes."

But Martin Wright Liverpool Vision Development Director said "Liverpool Vision and NWDA are bringing forward proposals for the development of Kingston House.

"We are close to finalising a development brief for the site and expect to have a development partner in place by the end of the year.

"During negotiations to acquire the building the tenants fully understood and accepted the need to achieve vacant possession to bring forward our plans."

Because he cannot find other premises, Mr Brown said all his 20 staff will have to be made redundant if he has to move out quickly.

MP for Riverside Louise Ellman said she had written to the NWDA on Mr Brown's behalf.

She said: "It's a popular pub and always crowded. It's an important local facility and good for the city.

"It's often difficult when there is redevelopment but he should certainly have an alternative provided."

Good news, lets hope it will be replaced by a new quality development.

Toadboy

June 1st, 2005, 12:23 PM

Bad news that, not the potential development but the rough house approach to it.

"let's kick out a booming business before we know what will happen"

This is another Queens Square in the making. Progress is one thing, destroying peoples livelyhoods before you have a plan is another.

Red scouser

June 1st, 2005, 01:01 PM

Toad: But its not like it has come like a big surprise for Coopers, I´m certain I read 6-12 months ago Coopers saying they knew the place would soon be demolished.

westisbest

June 1st, 2005, 01:36 PM

i have found a program on the internet that is an interactive globe viewer that lets you zoom right the way in to your own street. i went to manchester airport on it and i could even see the airlines that were there, it is that detailed. download it from www.keyhole.com and select the 7 day free trial. you need to suply an email and password once downloaded. try it, its superb

Toadboy

June 1st, 2005, 02:23 PM

I agree Red, but why not trade until they have an idea for the plot.

Red scouser

June 1st, 2005, 03:19 PM

I agree Red, but why not trade until they have an idea for the plot.

Fair enough although I dislike the building. It could stay open over the busy summer months and then be demolished as there seems to be no plans for the plot until 2006.

westisbest

June 1st, 2005, 03:40 PM

UNFINISHED! ive been having more fun with sim city and ive nearly completed the beetham part. note Unity down the road, 1 princes dock and im demolishing the Unisys buildin, behind West tower.

http://www.magix-photos.com/mediapool/76/32/9E/10/C5/4E/11/D9/A2/E8/56/47/D4/8B/29/30/10/0C690A20D29911D9B2483899502B182C.jpg

Damon

June 1st, 2005, 04:07 PM

Keep going mate - that's looking fantastic!

westisbest

June 1st, 2005, 04:15 PM

thanx mate. i need to re-place a few buildings and rotate them but my next job is to make RSA and metroplolitan house. Rsa will be hard!!

Dello

June 1st, 2005, 04:35 PM

Why are there a bunch of uninteresting Preston shots on this thread?

westisbest

June 1st, 2005, 06:01 PM

nearly finished! iv'e just got to add RSA, finish the thistel and finish metropolitan house, then im done and can move onto prince dock and then the city centre

http://www.magix-photos.com/mediapool/76/32/9E/10/C5/4E/11/D9/A2/E8/56/47/D4/8B/29/30/10/F226FEB0D2AC11D98E9BE17F502B182C.jpg

Scarecrow

June 1st, 2005, 08:30 PM

The city centre behind your waterfront looks like Ellesmere Port. Oh yeah, don't forget the JM Centre/Cuntwood building. :cheers:

westisbest

June 1st, 2005, 08:38 PM

ok, the city centre is what liverpool come with, that'll get changed in time

westisbest

June 1st, 2005, 08:41 PM

:cheers:

pjmulholland

June 1st, 2005, 08:49 PM

Why are there a bunch of uninteresting Preston shots on this thread?

It is indeed unfortunate that anyone who visits this thread for the first time is going to be confronted by a load of shots of some hick town just because Mr Accura has never seen the wider world, so still thinks his home "city" is the dogs proverbials.

Scarecrow

June 1st, 2005, 08:51 PM

Looks like Bootle, but with a grubbier bus station. Is a slow news day here or something, or have our regular forumers been shooting up Croxteth park? :?

pjmulholland

June 1st, 2005, 08:58 PM

Looks like Bootle, but with a grubbier bus station. Is a slow news day here or something, or have our regular forumers been shooting up Croxteth park? :?

Sometimes this site can go off for more then a few hours at a time. I'm only guessing but it could be that.

Scarecrow

June 1st, 2005, 09:00 PM

I've just got back from work, so you could be right there pj. :cheers:

Scarecrow

June 1st, 2005, 09:06 PM

Cains plough £150,000 into firm

Liverpool brewer Cains, has invested £150,000 in new equipment to keep pace with soaring demand at the brewery.

Two 100-tonne cranes lifted three new tanks into the Stanhope Street Site.

Joint Managing Director Ajmail Dusanj said: "This is the biggest single investment we have made since we took over Cains in 2002. The new tanks will improve the quality of all our beers and help our canning operations".

Cains is now the biggest contract canning operation in the UK, after production soared from 28m cans in 2002 to 120m cans this year.

Cains is still one of the most modern breweries in UK and still has potential for a third more Brewing and Canning capacity on it's 10acre site, Mr Dusanj added.

westisbest

June 1st, 2005, 09:14 PM

http://www.magix-photos.com/mediapool/76/32/9E/10/C5/4E/11/D9/A2/E8/56/47/D4/8B/29/30/10/F59D4570D2C711D9BF1E04CB502B1D05.jpg

:cheers:

Scarecrow

June 1st, 2005, 09:27 PM

The fucking state of that Westie. It's piss poor and hideous.

Spot on mate! :cheers:

westisbest

June 1st, 2005, 09:30 PM

:cheers:

tommygunn

June 2nd, 2005, 01:28 AM

scouserdave

June 2nd, 2005, 11:24 AM

interesting article on the current state of Liverpool's housing market (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=15582871&method=full&siteid=50061&headline=tell-tale-signs-as-home-sales-tumble-name_page.html)

"The Land Registry figures show the only increase in sales has occurred in the L5 area, covering Kirkdale and parts of Anfield, with a rise of 11%."

scouserdave

June 2nd, 2005, 01:25 PM

Temporary location for the Summer pops

http://www.**************************/summerpops003.jpg

http://www.**************************/summerpops001.jpg

westisbest

June 2nd, 2005, 01:27 PM

coming on nicely now!!!

http://www.magix-photos.com/mediapool/76/32/9E/10/C5/4E/11/D9/A2/E8/56/47/D4/8B/29/30/10/FED4A980D34E11D981834C6F502B1A0A.jpg

:cheers:

Blabbernsmoke

June 2nd, 2005, 02:42 PM

Manchester economic region plans revealed
Planning Resource - 02 June 2005

Manchester will become a vast Northern Way city region incorporating parts of Cheshire and Derbyshire under plans unveiled this week.

The Manchester City Region Development Programme (CDRP) could see Manchester become the most dominant city region in the Government's Northern Way economic development plan.

The proposed city region stretches further than expected, beyond the boundaries of the former metropolitan county of Greater Manchester.

It would include areas in north Cheshire and the picturesque borough of High Peak in Derbyshire – which lies outside the official Northern Way area in the East Midlands.

The CRDP has been developed by economic development agency Manchester Enterprises in partnership with local authorities around the city.

Also involved are national regeneration agency English Partnerships, the Government Office for the North West, the North West Development Agency and the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister.

Bosses at Manchester Enterprises, which released the document, claim the economic output of the city region will equal Leeds, Liverpool and Sheffield combined.

The population of the proposed city region is more than three million, accounting for a fifth of all those living in the North.

westisbest

June 2nd, 2005, 05:52 PM

http://www.magix-photos.com/mediapool/76/32/9E/10/C5/4E/11/D9/A2/E8/56/47/D4/8B/29/30/10/BF2E7420D37411D9BC8EC0ECD48B3856.jpg

Accura4Matalan

June 2nd, 2005, 06:11 PM

http://www.**************************/summerpops003.jpg
Cheers. Stanley Dock looks amazing in that photo! :cheers:

westisbest

June 2nd, 2005, 06:26 PM

does anyone have any suggestions to what building i put next in my liverpool

Awayo

June 2nd, 2005, 06:30 PM

How about an Albert Dock?

westisbest

June 2nd, 2005, 06:32 PM

ok but im concentrating on the northern part at the moment altough i have nearly finished it

Accura4Matalan

June 2nd, 2005, 06:36 PM

does anyone have any suggestions to what building i put next in my liverpool
Stanley Dock!!! (and the nifty clock tower near it)

Awayo

June 2nd, 2005, 06:44 PM

In which case, the MSCP must the a piece of cake after the RSA.

westisbest

June 2nd, 2005, 07:00 PM

ill do the MSCP next then

Craigie_Mann

June 2nd, 2005, 07:10 PM

Has anyone seen the new pics for the sight of the 4th grace on www.icliverpool.com today its a friggin sweedish matchbox its horrible

Craigie_Mann

June 2nd, 2005, 07:18 PM

it just looks so out of place to me it would look alright next to the kings dock development not there

Awayo

June 2nd, 2005, 07:21 PM

It's more of a riverside pavillion that a building designed to rival the four large buildings of the Pier Head ensemble.

It think, of itself, it looks alright. The design is obviously made to hug the ground and thus not spoil the sightline to the PoL, Cunard and RL buildings.

westisbest

June 2nd, 2005, 07:21 PM

there you go, MSCP

http://www.magix-photos.com/mediapool/76/32/9E/10/C5/4E/11/D9/A2/E8/56/47/D4/8B/29/30/10/DB2AAFB0D38111D9ACDCDFD1D48B3856.jpg

:cheers:

Awayo

June 2nd, 2005, 07:31 PM

Excellente!

Bet you can't do a Crown Plaza Hotel so fast (with the curvy bits and all). ;)

westisbest

June 2nd, 2005, 07:34 PM

ill try :cheers:

Awayo

June 2nd, 2005, 07:36 PM

post dooble

westisbest

June 2nd, 2005, 07:45 PM

anyone got a picture of the crowne plaza plz. lol

Paul D

June 3rd, 2005, 07:09 PM

JUXTAPOL

June 3rd, 2005, 07:54 PM

Work has started (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/business/news/tm_objectid=15588650%26method=full%26siteid=50061%26headline=mp%2dhails%2dnew%2dprint%2dplant-name_page.html) on the £120 Million printing plant in Speke. :)Excellent, new jobs, hi tech, quality. The entire business park looks like a top quality area. :cheers:

Red scouser

June 3rd, 2005, 08:31 PM

New museum hits 100,000 visitors (BBC)

Staff at the World Museum Liverpool welcome its 100,000th visitor on Friday five weeks after it reopened.

The renamed museum underwent a £35m facelift to help put the city on the map in time for its year as European Capital of Culture in 2008.

"Far more people have visited the new museum than we expected," said museum keeper John Millard.

The former Liverpool Museum, which reopened on 29 April, was increased to nearly twice its size.

'Busy summer'

The museum now boasts a new World Culture gallery, a new aquarium and a "Bug House" with giant model insects as well as a new Weston Discovery Centre, Clore Natural History Centre and Treasure House Theatre.

"It's fantastic to see the Aquarium, the Bug House, the hands-on centres and all the new facilities being used so well after a long time of planning," said Mr Millard.

"People talk about coming back to see more and do things they missed on their first visit so we're looking forward to a busy and successful summer."

Scarecrow

June 5th, 2005, 10:27 PM

Random odd thing:

http://img92.echo.cx/img92/6872/bluething9ki.jpg

Blabbernsmoke

June 5th, 2005, 10:39 PM

That's a great pic Bunny. If I saw this in Berlin, Amsterdam, Barcelona- I'd think "what an interesting building". Lpool really does have some great gems.

West,

http://www.magix-photos.com/mediapool/76/32/9E/10/C5/4E/11/D9/A2/E8/56/47/D4/8B/29/30/10/BF2E7420D37411D9BC8EC0ECD48B3856.jpg

That looks pretty good. I like the RSA building. I think you should base it on the year 2010 and include King Eddie Tower (just for laughs?)

Scarecrow

June 6th, 2005, 12:28 PM

Millionaire bankrolls Quiggins shops move Jun 6 2005

EXCLUSIVE by Andy Kelly, Daily Post

THE owners of the former Cammell Laird shipyard site are bankrolling a bid by Liverpool's Quiggins centre to move into one of the city's most famous department stores, the Daily Post can reveal.

The Reddington Group of Wirral multi-millionaire Gerry White will this week offer to buy the former George Henry Lee building on Church Street as the new home for Quiggins.

The future of the famous retail and cultural centre has been put in doubt by the £920m Grosvenor development in the Paradise Street area of the city.

Quiggins' current home on School Lane is to become home to a new arcade of designer shops as part of Grosvenor's plans, despite a high-profile campaign by supporters to save it.

The current site is due to be vacated in a year's time after a public inquiry granted compulsory purchase powers to the Duke of Westminster's company.

But Quiggins owners Peter and Jimmy Tierney are determined to continue their business and have made no secret of their desire to expand into the George Henry Lee building, about four times the size of their current premises.

The one imponderable was always financial clout but it now appears Reddington will make a £15m-£20m bid on Quiggins' behalf this week. The George Henry Lee's site is currently trading under the John Lewis banner but the company have already been signed up as one of Grosvenor's major anchor tenants for a new department store on Paradise Street.

That means the Church Street site, split between two buildings, will become vacant.

The freehold is owned by Liverpool City Council but the agreement signed with Grosvenor means it is their responsibility to find a new end user for the building. Grosvenor project director Rod Holmes has already given Quiggins officials a tour of the building but it is still unclear whether his company or the city council will support the arrival of the "alternative" centre on one of the city's prime shopping sites.

Last night, Gerry White, chairman of Wirral Chamber of Commerce, said: "I'm delighted to offer my support to secure the future of Quiggins in the heart of Liverpool.

"I've long been impressed by the Quiggins operation and philosophy and the way in which they have provided real support for small businesses and entrepreneurs.

"Quiggins has successfully secured a market that is not provided for by more mainstream retailers.

"Despite the major changes in Liverpool's retail sector, I see no sign that the demand for Quiggins will decrease. Indeed, with a fresh start in the larger George Henry Lee's building, I am convinced that Quiggins will only become more successful."

Quiggins owner Peter Tierney was bullish about the financial backing which could make his dreams for George Henry Lee's become a reality.

He said: "This marks a real leap forward in our progress towards establishing a new Quiggins in the George Henry Lee's building.

"Quiggins has always been more than just a retail centre, we have always aimed to be retail plus and the new development will take that approach to a whole new level.

"We will be unveiling plans later in the month that will answer once and for all any doubts about the suitability of Quiggins for the site. Our new development will be unique, a mix of high-quality retail, cultural and leisure facilities and new features that will expand the appeal of Quiggins to a whole new audience.

"Quiggins has been popular and successful for many years in its School Lane location.

"That success has been the result of hard work and an understanding of our customers.

"We have put our money where our mouth is when it has come to demonstrating our commitment to the city.

"Securing the private finance required to purchase the GHL building is just a further demonstration of our commitment to Liverpool.

"We have always said that Liverpool needs spice as well as vanilla in its shopping offer. The spice is what makes a city special, even unique. No matter what other changes happen in Liverpool, I can promise that Quiggins will continue to spice things up."

Confirmation of the financial support arrived in a letter to Mr Tierney from Reddington director Mike Ryder this week.

In his letter, Mr Ryder said: "I am pleased to confirm we are in a position to fully support your proposed purchase of the department store in Liverpool occupied by George Henry Lee and the John Lewis Partnership.

"We can confirm funds are available to acquire the freehold interest in the property and we are anxious that you proceed with securing an agreement as soon as possible."

andykelly@dailypost.co.uk

JUXTAPOL

June 6th, 2005, 03:22 PM

Random odd thing

Wow, that's something i have not noticed apart from at ground floor level. This is what they should have done with the derelict church they demolished in Catharine St and replaced with a bland apartment block. Keep the outside and put a new development inside which sprouts above the old building.

Red scouser

June 6th, 2005, 04:01 PM

£39m grade-A new look for office block Jun 6 2005
By Tony McDonough Daily Post Staff

BRUNTWOOD will this week unveil the first completed phase of its £39m redevelopment of the Littlewoods headquarters in Liverpool.

The Manchester developer has completed two floors of 100 Old Hall Street, comprising 46,000 sq ft of space, and will rename it The Plaza.

Over the next two years, Bruntwood will bring around 265,000 sq ft of office space at the site on to the market, making it the city centre's biggest speculative scheme.

The firm will be charging between £14 per sq ft for the space, a little higher than the £12.50 to £13.50 per sq ft being charged for high-quality refurbished space in the Liverpool office market.

However, Bruntwood's head of marketing, Simon Scott, insists the floors have been refurbished to grade A standard.

He told the Daily Post: "We are reducing the property to a shell and then completely refurbishing it to a very high standard. Anyone who sees will know exactly what we mean.

"This is a very significant development because we are spending £39m and not relying on any grant support or gap funding.

"It is a completely speculative scheme and it is a sign of the confidence we have in the city."

Littlewoods still occupies part of the building but it is expected the company will vacate the premises over the next year or so.

The building was acquired by Bruntwood in 2003 from Littlewoods for just under £25m and is next door to another prestige development - St Paul's Square.

This is a £100m scheme that will bring City of London-style office blocks to Merseyside.

When complete, St Paul's Square will provide workplaces for around 3,000 people.

The first phase consists of a 125,000 sq ft office building, a residential apartment block, shops, a restaurant and a 400-space car park.

Earlier in the year, it received a £9m funding package from the Northwest Development Agency and Merseyside's Objective 1 Programme. Demolition work began in March. Liverpool law firm Hill Dickinson will be the anchor tenant and is believed to have agreed to take more than 100,000 sq ft of space.

Scarecrow

June 6th, 2005, 04:03 PM

Great news! Looks like Bruntwood are spending money here, something they're not accustomed to in Manc. :)

Scarecrow

June 6th, 2005, 04:23 PM

Do you think we'll be less than 200 behind Manc by nightfall?

Paul D

June 6th, 2005, 04:32 PM

No doubt.

kung_fuzi

June 6th, 2005, 04:32 PM

If we try hard enough. :cheers:

kung_fuzi

June 6th, 2005, 04:33 PM

What we need is Bustcap to join in,then we'll fly.

Paul D

June 6th, 2005, 04:36 PM

What we need is Bustcap to join in,then we'll fly.

He tried his best last night to stop that debate on the JLA thread and everyone just blanked him and I found it funny,you could tell he was getting pissed off. :lol:

Scarecrow

June 6th, 2005, 04:36 PM

The boy can chat some serious shit can't he? WHERE ARE YOU TREV? :?

Scarecrow

June 6th, 2005, 04:40 PM

I'm off for a bit now. Speak to you lads later! :cheers:

Paul D

June 6th, 2005, 04:41 PM

I'm off for a bit now. Speak to you lads later! :cheers:

Thank god for that so am I. :)

kung_fuzi

June 6th, 2005, 05:31 PM

Might call it a day myself. :cheers:

Martin S

June 6th, 2005, 10:11 PM

Do you think we'll be less than 200 behind Manc by nightfall?

If they all come over here to promote Manchester Airport on our JLA thread.

That reminds me ....

Blabbernsmoke

June 6th, 2005, 10:15 PM

Scarecrow

June 6th, 2005, 11:58 PM

Hey, we're currently 202 behind that shower. Not a bad estimate by me! :) Now I require two replies...

Scarecrow

June 7th, 2005, 11:53 AM

Mersey Wave returns to the city skyline Jun 7 2005

By Andy Kelly, Daily Post

THE Mersey Wave gateway feature is finally returning to south Liverpool, 18 months after it was dismantled over safety fears.

Work to resurrect the giant piece of public art began on Speke Boulevard at 8pm last night and will continue again tonight.

The £700,000 installation will be completely restored after further work on Monday and Tuesday of next week.

Since its removal in early 2004, modifications have been made to the 12 giant fins in the original design to ensure they will not blow over in high winds.

Project managers for the scheme, Liverpool Land Development Company, say the work will take place during the night to minimise traffic disruption.

The Mersey Wave, originally installed in November 2003, was taken down within weeks after it was discovered that in certain wind conditions the fins moved in a way that was not anticipated.

The problem has been overcome by the creation of a lattice structure at the top of each fin that allows the wind to pass through.

Spanning the dual carriageway, it is 200 ft long and 100ft high - equivalent to seven double-decker buses and 30 ft taller than the famous Angel of the North at Gateshead.

At night, its blue lights are visible up to a mile away.

The wave effect has been created by setting the giant fins - each one weighing 3.5 tonnes - at different angles from the vertical.

The feature was designed by Czech-born lighting artist Peter Fink in collaboration with urban designer Igor Marko, both of Art2Architecture.

It was the first structure deliberately designed to be viewed from a moving vehicle.

Art2Architecture has been responsible for many well-known lighting projects including several at Britain's tallest building, the Canary Wharf tower in London.

Balfour Beatty, the main contractor responsible for both the original manufacture and installation of the Wave, is undertaking the remediation work.

The Daily Post understands the cost of the modifications and the reinstallation has been covered by the private sector.

Liverpool Land Development Company chief executive, David Waugh, said: "We are delighted that the Wave is set to be re-erected on Speke Boulevard and feel sure that the sculpture will receive the same warm reception from all quarters as it did originally."

Road closures will take place during the evenings between 8pm (in-bound), 9pm (out-bound) and 6am the following morning.

andykelly@dailypost.co.uk

Accura4Matalan

June 7th, 2005, 11:56 AM

Excellent news. I cant wait to drive through it at night in 2 weeks and 5 days!

Toadboy

June 7th, 2005, 11:59 AM

What's the event Accy?

Scarecrow

June 7th, 2005, 02:40 PM

Mersey TV plays down talk of £30m sell-off Jun 7 2005

By Tony McDonough, Daily Post

THE TV company that makes Richard & Judy show has held talks about the possible acquisition of Mersey TV (MTV) in a deal that could be worth around £30m.

All 3 Media is one of a number of media companies approached by the Liverpool-based producer of teenage soap Hollyoaks and former producer of Brookside.

However, a source close to the talks dismissed a Sunday newspaper report that claimed the deal was already in motion and the report was described as "a bit strong".

A spokeswoman for MTV, which is believed to be talking to other potential suitors, said the firm would not comment on speculation.

MTV was founded by Phil Redmond back in the early 1980s. Three years ago Mr Redmond and his wife Alexis sold part of their stake in the company to Lloyds Development Capital for an undisclosed sum.

Prior to the sale the media tycoon saw more than £8m paid by the company into his pension fund.

He remains a majority shareholder and chairman but indicated some time ago that he would like to find a buyer for the business.

Following the deal with LDC in 2002 Mr Redmond said: "I didn't want to get to the stage where I was 57 or 58 and suddenly say 'Right, that's it'. That would be unfair on the people who work here."

Mr Redmond made his name in the 1970s as the creator of the hit TV series Grange Hill.

He went on to launch Scouse soap Brookside on Channel 4 in 1982. It was taken off the air in 2003 following a sharp decline in viewing figures.

However, Hollyoaks is still going strong going out at 6.30pm on Channel 4 five nights a week. MTV has also brought Grange Hill back to the nation's TV screens. Its subsidiaries also make the ITV drama Midsomer Murders and the channel's coverage of Formula 1 motor racing.

The company was formed in September 2003 following the acquisition of Chrysalis Group's TV division. Its production companies make TV shows not just in the UK but also the Netherlands, New Zealand and the USA.

tonymcdonough@dailypost.co.uk

Scarecrow

June 7th, 2005, 06:43 PM

Probe begins into Storey's conduct Jun 7 2005

By Nick Coligan , Liverpool Echo

A TOP-LEVEL inquiry into the behaviour of Liverpool council leader Mike Storey has officially begun, the ECHO can reveal.

A local government watchdog decided allegations about Cllr Storey's recent conduct do need investigating after 10 days of debate.

The inquiry, brought about asa result of his recent row with council chief executive Sir David Henshaw, should finish by the end of this year.

But it could drag on as long as 18 months if it turns out to be more complicated than expected.

Cllr Storey reported himself to the Standards Board for England two weeks ago following the collapse of his relationship with Sir David.

Tensions between the council's two most powerful men erupted into a public battle after the discovery of emails exchanged between Cllr Storey and suspended media chief Matt Finnegan.

They appear to show how Cllr Storey and Mr Finnegan were working behind the scenes to hasten Sir David's expected departure from the town hall.

The Liberal Democrat politician is facing five charges of breaching his code of conduct.

A spokesman for the Standards Board said: "It is very hard to put time scales on an investigation because each one is unique.

"We aim to complete 90% of investigations within six months but obviously some take longer than others.

"However, higher-profile cases are given priority."

If the Standards Board decides Cllr Storey has acted wrongly, he faces at least harsh criticism and at worst suspension from the council.

But he has the strong backing of his fellow Liberal Democrat councillors, who have refused to consider replacing him as leader.

Cllr Storey and Sir David are now going through mediation in an attempt to resolve their differences.

Sir David, however, says he has no intention of leaving his £180,000-a-year job before Capital of Culture in 2008.

Toadboy

June 8th, 2005, 01:20 PM

Blueprint for the Baltic.

Just pilferred and scanned this from the very excellent Liverpool Daily Post 'Vision' suppliment.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a216/Djiblet/BalticTriangle.jpg

Go out and buy the Daily Post today you minge bags, Wednesday is always good with the Business Week section but the quarterly Vision magazine makes it unmissable.

Accura4Matalan

June 8th, 2005, 01:30 PM

What's the event Accy?
End of GCSE's

Awayo

June 8th, 2005, 01:35 PM

Toadboy

June 8th, 2005, 01:50 PM

Proper massing, density, scale and design in my eyes.

Given the plans for Kongs Dick, this once bussling but recently depopulated and war scared area of the city could become the livliest district of a buzzing downtown.

kung_fuzi

June 8th, 2005, 03:56 PM

Looking at those plans fills you full of hope for this city of ours.
Parts of downtown have indeed looked like war scarred areas for far too long. :cheers:

Accura4Matalan

June 8th, 2005, 04:39 PM

w00t? Bungalows?!

Accura4Matalan

June 8th, 2005, 04:40 PM

BTW, that tall thing is a total replica of No.1 Deansgate!

Awayo

June 8th, 2005, 04:40 PM

They're already there monkeyboy. The new stuff is in the foreground.

Awayo

June 8th, 2005, 04:43 PM

BTW, that tall thing is a total replica of No.1 Deansgate!

Number 1 Deansgate is on a platform with legs. The Greensberg Tower does not.

So not a total replica. Look more closely as such things before commenting.

Accura4Matalan

June 8th, 2005, 04:58 PM

Why dont they demolish the bungalows?

Toadboy

June 8th, 2005, 05:05 PM

Because people live in them.

Just a thought.

Accura4Matalan

June 8th, 2005, 05:06 PM

That doesnt stop them demolishing huge council blocks with hundreds of people living in them ;)

ferge

June 8th, 2005, 05:46 PM

Yeh Accy you can't say its Deansgate just because it has a sloped roof, for one its not even boxy because it has those cylinderical like parts on one side, it isn't on a platform and has no stilts.. basically its got a sloped roof...about it. Not that many tall buildings in this scheme is there? But then tall buildings don't bring a place to life.. So maybe thats why.. Hope it all works out, Some of the buildings look fair cool, especially the two near Greensberg

Toadboy

June 8th, 2005, 05:58 PM

I'm not sure that area could sustain too many tall, never mind get them past planning ferge.

When you consider it's a warehousing and small industrial unit area at the moment it's a pretty big leap but one I'd be comfortable with. People will fight to get a pad there.

Blabbernsmoke

June 8th, 2005, 06:05 PM

WOW!! That Baltic blue print looks fantastic!! It will nicely extend the PSDA along the starnd and parallel the developments taking place at Kings Dock. By 2010- this could potentially be one huge, amazing integrated area- PSDA, Albert Dock, Kings Dock, Pier Head, Princes Dock and Baltic all woven together in one huge regenerated area. And this is only the start- what more could be proposed in the future? I think Liverpool is going to be trully superb 5 years time. I am liking every proposal I see. :cheers: The only concern I have is that the stupid 'motor way' that splits the PSDA-side from the Albert Dock Side. Making the road more pedestrian friendly- and building high quality bridges will be an absolute MUST!

kung_fuzi

June 8th, 2005, 06:53 PM

Scarecrow

June 8th, 2005, 07:56 PM

They'll probably do that eventually, once the waterfront development reqiures it. The amount of people crossing the Strand in five-10 years could cause total gridlock and a fair few accidents if something isn't thought up soon. :(

tommygunn

June 8th, 2005, 09:59 PM

BTW, that tall thing is a total replica of No.1 Deansgate!
i know what you mean it does look very similar.

Martin S

June 8th, 2005, 10:58 PM

What's happened to the YHA and Formule 1 / Ibis hotel? I'm crying already.

Looks like a real Downtown development, hopefully with a mixture of offices, shops and houses / apartments. I can't see them sinking the Strand /Wapping now as there will be much more traffic, what with PSDA and Kings Dock as well and maybe Brunswick Quay and the Garden Festival Site development.

If this development goes ahead, I can see them needing to reopen St James station and maybe extending Merseytram to serve it.

scouserdave

June 8th, 2005, 11:42 PM

Blueprint for the Baltic.

Just pilferred and scanned this from the very excellent Liverpool Daily Post 'Vision' suppliment.

Go out and buy the Daily Post today you minge bags, Wednesday is always good with the Business Week section but the quarterly Vision magazine makes it unmissable.

Toadboy, been poring over your cracking scan (does that sound a bit rude?) for the last 20 minutes. Thanks. Interesting to see what's replacing the Lamb Building. I was in the Baltic Fleet a couple of weeks ago. Told them that this lil' ol' pub will be a f*****g goldmine in the next year or two :cheers:
http://www.**************************/pub1.jpg

woody

June 9th, 2005, 01:42 AM

BTW, that tall thing is a total replica of No.1 Deansgate!

A Manchester roof is SLOPING, a Liverpool roof is STEPPED :bash:

woody

June 9th, 2005, 01:46 AM

Toadboy

June 9th, 2005, 11:48 AM

There's a few views of the Lamb replcement in the article, if I can I'll scan 'em up.

There's a cracker of the biggie as well.

Dicky Sam's

June 9th, 2005, 12:42 PM

If this development goes ahead, I can see them needing to reopen St James station and maybe extending Merseytram to serve it.

Where is St James Station?

I know that its a disused station but I havent got a clue where it used to be?

A.D.Williams

June 9th, 2005, 10:02 PM

Where is St James Station?

I know that its a disused station but I havent got a clue where it used to be?

Corner of Parliament Street and St. James Place. The station was 'under' Ashwell Street. It was closed when Jesus was a lad in 1916!!

Red scouser

June 9th, 2005, 11:30 PM

Don't know if you have seen the 360 Panoromas from BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/liverpool/in_pictures/360_panoramas/paradise_scheme/index.shtml

Also some useful regeneration info on:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/liverpool/capital_of_culture/regeneration/index.shtml

scouserdave

June 10th, 2005, 12:02 AM

Corner of Parliament Street and St. James Place. The station was 'under' Ashwell Street. It was closed when Jesus was a lad in 1916!!
You can still see where the railway ran.

http://www.**************************/ashwell.jpg

Accura4Matalan

June 10th, 2005, 12:06 AM

Is that abandoned now? It looks really exciting!

kung_fuzi

June 10th, 2005, 12:09 AM

The railway still runs there.

highriser

June 10th, 2005, 02:49 AM

Article ive found while trolling the net, you lot might be interested :)

English Heritage denies exerting undue pressure on city planners
May 2005

The body charged with conserving Liverpool’s heritage of industrial buildings has denied it is influencing the planning process in the city, specifically with regard to tall buildings. John Stonard, Manager of the Historic Environment for Liverpool Project says “Liverpool has a Tall Buildings strategy. I don’t think anything is being knocked back because of anything English Heritage says.” English Heritage are a senior partner in the HELP project which also includes Liverpool City Council and Liverpool Vision, the city centre regeneration company established by the Council.
Countering further accusations that the conservation body has been a restraining investment, Stonard pointed to the role of regeneration in turning around the decline. “The thing is that the conversion of Liverpool’s industrial buildings, schemes like Albert Dock, are what made the city a good place to invest in the first place. Companies like Urban Splash took on buildings that the commercial mainstream volume house builders wouldn’t touch. Whilst they are happy to build standard models, others created places that people actually wanted to live in,” he says.
Members of Downtown Liverpool, “an independent ideas agency committed to the development of a vibrant, dynamic, modern metropolitan Liverpool”, have suggested that the HELP were promoting within the planning department a culture which was averse to modern architecture. Stonard denied this. He stressed that the World Heritage Site status, granted in July 2004, provided for no statutory regulations against certain types of building. Since HELP was established in 2000, it has funded Stonard’s position, within the planning department of Liverpool City Council. In addition it has created and funded a World Heritage site officer to oversee developments and part-funded a Building At Risk officer. Twelve per cent of Liverpool’s listed buildings are classed as being “at risk” compared with a 5% national average. HELP has also funded a position within the Liverpool Cultural Company, which will orchestrate the City of Culture 2008.

Gareth

June 10th, 2005, 11:05 AM

Is that abandoned now? It looks really exciting!

Accy, it's part of the Northern Line and is situated between Brunswick & Central just before it goes underground.

Red scouser

June 10th, 2005, 11:10 AM

City hotels booming Jun 10 2005
By Tony Mcdonough, Daily Post

LIVERPOOL'S hotels are now outperforming hotels in other UK regions for occupancy, a new report revealed yesterday.

However a leading Merseyside hotelier warned the revenue per customer needed to be higher if the sector was to be sustainable.

After performing poorly in 2004, when extra capacity came onto the market, trade at the city's hotels has now picked up as it approaches the Capital of Culture year in 2008.

The Hotel Benchmark Survey, carried out by Deloitte, has shown a significant improvement in performance during the first four months of the year.

It revealed that revenue per available room (revPAR) has increased by 19% from £37 to £44, compared with the same period last year. The regional UK figure is £42.

Liverpool is also beating the revPAR growth achieved for the rest of the North West. Regional UK, as a whole, increased revPAR by only 4.3% and for the North West region it rose by 8.8% in the January - April 2005 period.

Occupancy rates in Liverpool also jumped over the period from 66.8% to 73.8%.

Steve Wilkinson, of Deloitte, said: "These latest figures are encouraging as they show that recovery is firmly on track.

"Demand for hotel rooms is also being fuelled by great performance by the city's football clubs and by the increasing popularity of Liverpool John Lennon Airport."

Paul Feather, who operates two hotels in the city, backed up the survey's findings but warned the revPAR must rise even further if the local hotel sector is to be sustainable.

He said: "Liverpool is performing very strongly at the moment. But the problem with increased capacity is that it does drive rates down. Liverpool's revenue per room needs to be higher."

Yapachoo

June 10th, 2005, 03:52 PM

Interesting report Red - we've got so many new hotels in the pipeline too, it can only boost profits in the tourism sector.

I was wondering if anyone knew when the work to re-pave and generally improve Church/Lord St. will be undertaken? IMO this is a key area to renovate for 2008 as it is easily the busiest part of the city currently.

Blabbernsmoke

June 10th, 2005, 04:54 PM

Fashion chain opens in city Jun 10 2005

By Neil Hodgson, Liverpool Echo

A NEW fashion label and chain of high street stores is being launched in Liverpool.

Fashion Lab has opened the first of more than 40 stores planned by the end of this year in Dawson Way in the city's St John's shopping centre.

Two more are planned for Birken-head and Bootle, as well as sites around the UK.

The company is an Anglo-Chinese joint venture, with an export operation in Hong Kong. It is currently based in Ashton-in-Makerfield, where it has its main warehousing operation, but managing director Steve Richmond said the business plans to relocate to Liverpool next week.

He said: "We looked at Manchester and Liverpool, but we preferred Liverpool."

About 20 staff will be based in the Liverpool head office. Each franchised store will create up to 10 new jobs.

The Fashion Lab clothes range comprises two of its own labels: Sparkle, aimed at 18 to 30-year-olds and Opalstone, for 25 to 60-year-olds.

They are designed in the UK and Malaysia, made in China and exported through Hong Kong, costing about 60% less than main high street stores.

Mr Richmond said: "The clothes are created by the same designers who work on many well-known high street labels."

So far 22 franchisees have been signed up. Fashion Lab hopes to open 43 stores between now and Christmas.

Toadboy

June 10th, 2005, 05:11 PM

It's only small but it reinforces the position of Liverpool as a retail HQ centre.

Red scouser

June 12th, 2005, 07:51 PM

Some approved planning permissions in the last 3 weeks

64 St. Annes Street, Liverpool
To erect 3 storey building comprising workshop and office space
Applicant: W H Snow Ltd

Land adjacent to Banks Road (at rear of David Lloyd Sports Centre), Garston, Liverpool, L19
To erect commercial building (5500sq.m approx) to be used within Use Classes B1, B2 & B8 i.e. for offices, light industry, general industry and storage/distribution, and layout associated delivery areas, parking areas and landscaping
Applicant: Priority Sites Ltd

38 Hope Street, Liverpool, L1
To carry out partial demolition in connection with the conversion of the premises into a restaurant with residential apartments over, including the addition of two new floor levels and a rear extension.

To use lower and upper ground floors as restaurant with associated kitchen/servicing, convert the upper floors into 4 residential apartments by adding two additional storeys and extending the building at the rear above upper ground floor.
Applicant: TRB Estates (Liverpool) Ltd

96-98 Upper Parliament Street, Liverpool L8
To erect 15 no. town houses at rear following demolition of annex building.
Applicant Direct Build (Wavertree) Ltd

Land at Warbreck Moor/Hall Lane, Liverpool, L9
To erect a three-storey building on site of former car park, consisting of offices on ground floor and 8 no. self-contained flats on the upper two floors, together with associated parking area (alternative scheme to permission 04F/1144)

Refused...

15-16 Wolstenholme Square, Liverpool, L1
To erect a mixed development in 4/5 storeys with leisure/food and drink use at ground and mezzanine floors, with 16 apartments above and car parking at basement level
Applicant: Southern Property Development Ltd

Liverpool Community College, Colquitt Street, Liverpool (Elysian Fields)
To vary existing permissions granted to develop site by the erection of a 7/8 storey building for primarily residential purposes by the addition of 1No apartment at roof level.

JUXTAPOL

June 12th, 2005, 10:24 PM

scouserdave

June 12th, 2005, 10:43 PM

:cheers: Red scouser.

Wonder if the refused penthouse on Elysian Fields was an extra bit of height..!

Where about is 96-98 Upper Parliament street(near which junction), can't vision what annex and where this is.

Juxt,
I was doing a bit of work for Build Direct a couple of years (James Troop building) and had to pop into 96-98 Upper Parly for a few minutes to drop some keys off. Took a few pics while I was there. They've since done a great job converting it into luxury apartments. By the way, 96 used to be the "Home for the Incurables" and 98 was the Audsley brothers designed Liverpool Art Club Picture Gallery

http://www.**************************/cath001a.jpg

http://www.**************************/cath001.jpg

http://www.**************************/cath002.jpg

http://www.**************************/cath003.jpg

tommygunn

June 12th, 2005, 11:10 PM

my favorite buildings there so grand in this area and really large was this area damaged in the riots?

scouserdave

June 12th, 2005, 11:18 PM

my favorite buildings there so grand in this area and really large was this area damaged in the riots?
Most of the riots was around the Granby area. Sloyne knows the area better than me. If he can drag himself away from that preposterous Earlybird thread, he may expand on this thread :) :cheers:

JUXTAPOL

June 12th, 2005, 11:19 PM

tommygunn

June 12th, 2005, 11:26 PM

Most of the riots was around the Granby area. Sloyne knows the area better than me. If he can drag himself away from that preposterous Earlybird thread, he may expand on this thread :) :cheers:
mainly granby was damaged parliment street looks like it was damaged houses then large gaps with just grass could be from the war that me thinks.

scouserdave

June 12th, 2005, 11:31 PM

Cheer scouserdave :cheers:

So the new build is behind Catharine house, which is now converted to apartments. I'm glad this area is going back up in the world, and that new build is filling the gaps, some of which were caused by the riots, some war, and worse some by previous councils. :bash:
The transformation around Catherine House is amazing. I wish I had some pics of the area from 20 years ago to compare the difference :bash:

http://www.**************************/cath004a.jpg

http://www.**************************/cath004.jpg

scouserdave

June 12th, 2005, 11:37 PM

Some approved planning permissions in the last 3 weeks

64 St. Annes Street, Liverpool
To erect 3 storey building comprising workshop and office space
Applicant: W H Snow Ltd

I wonder if this is the old Owen Owens bedding warehouse? I worked there for about 5 months, before shooting off to Butlins and then down South. When did it burn down? 4-5 years ago?

Blabbernsmoke

June 12th, 2005, 11:51 PM

Dave,

That cathedral and chimneys pic is class.

tommygunn

June 13th, 2005, 12:58 AM

Dave,

That cathedral and chimneys pic is class.
the liverpool pictorial site is the best on the web by far.

scouserdave

June 13th, 2005, 01:18 AM

the liverpool pictorial site is the best on the web by far.

Thanks Tommy :cheers:
Which one of us are going to hit the 1000 posts first? I'm one ahead of you. Correction, make that two after I post this :)

bustcapl

June 13th, 2005, 01:19 AM

the smart money is on tommy

Toadboy

June 13th, 2005, 02:32 AM

The thick as pig shit money is on diamond Dave.

Scarecrow

June 13th, 2005, 11:47 AM

Online door opens for planning bids Jun 13 2005

By Andy Kelly, Daily Post

EVERY planning application in Liverpool can now be accepted and processed completely online for the first time.

It follows the city signing up to a new service known as the Planning Portal, designed to speed up the - at times - drawn-out planning process.

Liverpool City Council, which has followed the maxim "from sea port to e-port" to improve its technology in recent years, has now added the portal to its selection of online services.

Those already include house buyers being able to do their local authority searches online.

The portal is a one-stop online service developed by the Planning Inspectorate and is aimed at professionals in the field of planning as well as residents.

Anyone thinking of buying a house can now log on to the site and look at any planning developments which have been submitted for the area and view maps. Householders can also submit their own planning application using easy-to-complete online forms and check the appeals process.

By simply logging-on to the site, users have access to planning guidance and information on the latest policy and research, as well as being able to determine whether they need to apply for planning permission for the particular work they are considering on their home.

Cllr Dave Antrobus, Liverpool's executive member for Corporate and Customer Care, said: "Signing up to the Planning Portal will bring numerous benefits to the planning agents and residents who use it and the savings in terms of time and cost could be significant.

"Joining the Portal should enable us to make faster and more effective decisions on the applications submitted and ultimately provide a better all-round service to everyone involved in the planning process."

Paul Kilner, director of the Planning Portal, said: "We are delighted Liverpool City Council has joined the growing number of authorities that can now boast a faster, more efficient planning system.

"However, we cannot rest on our successes to date as we understand the value in developing the services the portal provides for its customers.

"We will continue to listen to what they want as, without them, it wouldn't be the unparalleled triumph that it is."

* The Planning Portal can be accessed via the authority's website www.liverpool.gov.uk or through the portal itself, www.planningportal.gov.uk.

Accura4Matalan

June 13th, 2005, 11:54 AM

LOL! Somebody should hoax an application for a 110-storey tower at Pier Head :laugh:

kung_fuzi

June 13th, 2005, 01:43 PM

LOL! Somebody should hoax an application for a 110-storey tower at Pier Head :laugh:

Brilliant idea,after the height police get their hands on it we could end up with an 80 storey tower.
I've often said that developers should add about 20 soreys more than they want in this city,that way they get what they really want. :cheers:

neil

June 14th, 2005, 06:21 PM

Take a look at these promotional videos about the Northwest. They are in www.nwda.co.uk then go to images then videos. 'The Deal' is a good one as it is about a tale of to capitals Manchester and Liverpool worth a look.

Damon

June 15th, 2005, 11:57 AM

Anthony Gormley (the artist who created the Angel of the North) is currently installing his work Another Place on Crosby beach. Sounds interesting - 100 iron figures facing out to sea. Got to be worth a look once it's ready...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1506502,00.html

Awayo

June 15th, 2005, 12:05 PM

Football Museum jobs under threat

The museum could become part of National Museums Liverpool
Jobs at the National Football Museum could be under threat if running costs cannot be met by Preston City Council.

Councillors were meeting on Wednesday to discuss a cash shortfall at the museum, in Deepdale, Preston, which may mean a reduction in services.

The council is being asked to continue providing an annual grant of £25,000.

One of the money-saving options being considered by museum trustees is to make the attraction part of the National Museums Liverpool.

The museum, which offers free admission, includes a large collection of football memorabilia, photographs, film and interactive exhibits.

Funding for the free access policy came from the North West Development Agency (NWDA) and the Football Foundation.

Welcome home Accy.

Scarecrow

June 15th, 2005, 12:12 PM

Ha! You're our bitch now Preston!

Doug Roberts

June 15th, 2005, 12:26 PM

I think he's always wanted to be one of us but was too scared to ask.

Doug Roberts

June 15th, 2005, 12:33 PM

This is a great success story rising literally out of the ashes, congratulations to all involved!! Interesting boathouse as well, if they had a bar we could have a meet up there in a couple of years time!!

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=15632788%26method=full%26siteid=50061%26headline=new%2dboathouse%2dwill%2dput%2dfresh%2dwind%2din%2dclub%2ds%2dsails-name_page.html

Gareth

June 15th, 2005, 02:16 PM

Welcome to the Liverpool City Region, Accura! :)

Gareth

June 15th, 2005, 02:18 PM

Of course Earlybird will be pissed off though it's hardly that big a deal. You've all been warned. :laugh:

Toadboy

June 15th, 2005, 03:14 PM

He's a novel idea, why not close the togger museum down and move it to Liverpool?

Accura4Matalan

June 15th, 2005, 03:20 PM

Its an out of date report anyway...

Dicky Sam's

June 15th, 2005, 03:23 PM

He's a novel idea, why not close the togger museum down and move it to Liverpool?

It would make much more sense from an administrative point of view.

We've also got (and will have more in the future) museum floor space, so finding room for it wouldnt be a problem.

Liverpool is probably the most passionate footballing city in the England, though Glasgow probably is in the UK as a whole.*

* In My Opinion, before someone like Earlybird comes on here saying that Manchester is more passionate about footy!

Toadboy

June 15th, 2005, 03:24 PM

Like the Pop Museum in Sheffield these places don't have critical mass to maintain these places.

Liverpool does.

Accura4Matalan

June 15th, 2005, 03:26 PM

Accura4Matalan

June 15th, 2005, 03:31 PM

Like the Pop Museum in Sheffield these places don't have critical mass to maintain these places.

Liverpool does.
Thats rich, coming from a forumer of a city that never stops whining about how centralised things are around Manchester. The only way true regeneration can be achieved is if things are shared out nicely among cities and towns. That way towns and cities (no matter how small) have an existance that just doesnt revolve around 2/3 pedestrianised clone streets.

Dicky Sam's

June 15th, 2005, 03:32 PM

Preston is just as passionate about football as Liverpool or anywhere else. They could never have FM in Liverpool cos of costs and umm... other things *cough*Heysal*cough*
They built the museum in Preston cos it is the home of competetive football.

:weirdo:

What the hell has Heysel got to do with it?

Heysel was an important and tragic moment in the history of world football. Liverpool's links with the disaster would be a reason to have the football museum in Liverpool, it would not hinder it.

Paul D

June 15th, 2005, 03:41 PM

Business village plan on the banks of the Mersey. (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/business/news/tm_objectid=15632754%26method=full%26siteid=50061%26headline=business%2dvillage%2dplan%2don%2dbanks%2dof%2dmersey-name_page.html)

tommygunn

June 15th, 2005, 03:41 PM

Toadboy

June 15th, 2005, 03:51 PM

Liverpool offers the mass, Manchester doesn't offer anything more or less, the togger museum or pop could go to either. As a single attraction they'll never be sustained.

That's the difference.

Accura4Matalan

June 15th, 2005, 03:53 PM

are you having a laugh mate britains most succesful club to preston north end.
What has success got to do with anything? Trophy's are for success. Museums are for history, and Preston has very strong historic links with competetive football, being the first EVER league winners and one of the founding teams (from a certain point of view, being the home of football) and we are the only team in England to still be playing at our origional football ground.

Either way this report means nothing. It does not mean that Preston is in your fantasy city region and it doesnt mean that FM are quitting Preston. This was published at the weekend:

Soccer museum scores green accolade
The National Football Museum has become Preston's first visitor attraction to win a Green Tourism Award for environmental sustainability.
Simon Blackwell of North & Western Lancashire Chamber of Commerce handed the award to corporate hospitality manager, Karlyn Forrest at a special presentation held at the museum in Deepdale.
The award was given as part of the Chamber of Commerce's Sustourex programme, which is funded by the European Union. The award recognises outstanding achievement in improving the environmental sustainability of tourism businesses and similar organisations.
The project begins with an initial visit to business premises, followed by a detailed review, performed by environmental experts from Chamber partners Lancaster University.
It identifies opportunities to reduce energy use and minimise waste and assists businesses to recognise efficient methods of reducing their utility bills.
A relatively new building, the museum already incorporates many modern energy saving features, including low energy lighting and effective heat insulation.
Staff are also keenly committed to reducing waste and maximising energy efficiency wherever possible – not only as a result of new technology, but also through greater environmental awareness and effective management systems.
Simon said: "The National Football Museum is one of Preston's best known tourist destinations, attracting more than 100,000 visitors each year. It is therefore very gratifying to see that it is setting such a positive example of environmental responsibility.
"The National Football Museum is the first in the city to receive a Green Tourism Award, but many other organisations are taking part in the Sustourex programme, so we should start to see more and more of these awards."
Information about the Green Tourism Awards can be found at www.green-tourism-awards.org.uk. Further details about Sustourex are available from Simon Blackwell on 01772 653000.
Funding from the city council has also been secured:
http://www.preston.gov.uk/Documents/General/Administration/Cabinet/15June05/06%20Cabinet%20-%20Prioritised%20Action%20Plan.pdf

Accura4Matalan

June 15th, 2005, 03:54 PM

Liverpool offers the mass, Manchester doesn't offer anything more or less, the togger museum or pop could go to either. As a single attraction they'll never be sustained.

That's the difference.
Zzzzzzzzz.... :sleepy:

Dicky Sam's

June 15th, 2005, 03:56 PM

we are the only team in England to still be playing at our origional football ground

What? Tell me where Liverpool FC played then before 1892?

Accura4Matalan

June 15th, 2005, 03:57 PM

Dont know and dont care

Dicky Sam's

June 15th, 2005, 04:02 PM

Dont know and dont care

You're the one making up these bold statements Accy. You've got nothing to back them up though have you.

Liverpool were formed in 1892 and have never played their home games anywhere else but Anfield.

You shouldnt make up facts Accy. You might be able blag your way through your Home Economics GCSE exam but you cant blag your way past the clued-up scouseologists on skyscrapercity.

Damon

June 15th, 2005, 04:05 PM

we are the only team in England to still be playing at our origional football ground.

That's a load of footballs mate. Loads of teams still play at their original ground.

Just for starters, the second oldest club IN THE WORLD - Hallam FC in Sheffield - still play at their original ground.

tommygunn

June 15th, 2005, 04:23 PM

That's a load of footballs mate. Loads of teams still play at their original ground.

Just for starters, the second oldest club IN THE WORLD - Hallam FC in Sheffield - still play at their original ground.
whos the oldest club ever?

Awayo

June 15th, 2005, 04:25 PM

These Lottery Funded museums need to be thought through better.

The pop museum perhaps epitomised how they often went wrong. Sheffield was due for its slice of Lottery largesse (and fair enough - it's a fairly big city and has regeneration needs). So, a city that currently gets relatively low numbers of visitors ended up with a museum whose theme had little connection to in people's minds to Sheffield and drew nothing from Sheffield's history or culture. Sheffield people had no "dialogue" with it and, therefore, stayed away and no one would choose to visit Sheffield to visit museum to a branch of culture that as little to do with Sheffield.

Placing the Royal Armouries in Leeds (a successful city, but medieval armour: Leeds?) was a similar mistake. The museum's content has nothing to do with Leeds' people and has also had disappoining visitor numbers. Even the Imp War Mus in Trafford has not been a runway success so far, whereas the locally inspired Lowry is.

Near Sheffield, however, the Magma centre that is rooted in that region's history of smelting, forging and metal bashing has been relatively successful.

Likewise, the museum of Liverpool life and the M'side Maritime museum are all about Liverpool. A large proportion of Liverpool's visitors are there for the Beatles. However, visitors to Liverpool who are interested in the city's history of the slave trade, commerce or emigration will want to see these museum as this history is why they are in the city. Likewise, Liverpool people who want to understand their own family's history and that of their own city would want to come also.

The football museum in Preston's lack of success needs to be thought of in this context - Preston does not receive many vistors and, although I know that there is a connection between that part of world and the birth of league soccer, there isn't a strong link in people's minds between football and Preston and no real sense of particular ownership in Prestonian's minds for the museum's contents.

Soccer mad foreign tourists who visit the UK are going to want to go to Old Trafford and Anfield, maybe, and wouldn't think of going to Preston. Basically, it's not Preston's fault, but the museum is in the wrong place.

tommygunn

June 15th, 2005, 04:25 PM

prestons history is just that ancient history.

Damon

June 15th, 2005, 04:31 PM

whos the oldest club ever?

Sheffield FC - it's just that they don't play at their original ground any more.

Makes you wonder if they just stood around twiddling their thumbs until Hallam FC was formed.

http://www.sheffieldfc.com/

Dicky Sam's

June 15th, 2005, 04:47 PM

Makes you wonder if they just stood around twiddling their thumbs until Hallam FC was formed.

http://www.sheffieldfc.com/

:hahaha:

What year was Sheffield FC formed then?

Damon

June 15th, 2005, 04:51 PM

1857 according to their website. Hallam started in 1860. The history bit on that site is quite interesting as it explains who they did actually used to play - click on the player with the number 3 shirt to find it!

Pobbie Rarr

June 15th, 2005, 05:38 PM

Sheffield FC - it's just that they don't play at their original ground any more.

Makes you wonder if they just stood around twiddling their thumbs until Hallam FC was formed.

http://www.sheffieldfc.com/
Sheffield FC now play in Dronfield, 5 minutes down the road: I went there last year! :happy:

Did you also know that my mate's workmate joined the club recently: he is now the youngest ever player for the oldest football club in the world!

Hallam FC are the second oldest, and they still play at their original home in Sandygate Lane (just off the Snake Pass when you enter Sheffield). This the ground the oldest continually occupied football ground in the world. :banana:

Accura4Matalan

June 15th, 2005, 06:19 PM

prestons history is just that ancient history.
So what? Teams go up and down all the time. Neither Liverpool or Everton will be in the Premiership forever. Soton just got relegated, and Wigan got into the Premiership. Nobody would have thought it 5/6 years ago.

Awayo, I agree with most of what you said but the FM has not been lacking in success. It struggled at the start, but since the museum has been made free visitor numbers have greatly increased and are still increasing.
Also, dont assume that if FM was in Liverpool, that it would all be about Liverpool and Everton. There is a tiny section of the FM dedicated to PNE within the museum and a viewpoint over Deepdale housed in the floodlight.
And I admit, I was surprised when they decided to have the football museum in Preston cos I know that we arnt exactly a top tourist destination. But all cities have to start somewhere. If that wasnt the case, then everything would be being built in London. The museum itself is really good. The collection is huge and its frequently in the news for getting more. They also have a whole floor of interactive stuff (including digital table football and presenting your own 'Match of the Day') so its something to be pretty proud of. It would get more visitors if the stupid Highways Agency would allow the council to put brown signs on the M6, M61, M65 and M55.

You're the one making up these bold statements Accy. You've got nothing to back them up though have you.

Liverpool were formed in 1892 and have never played their home games anywhere else but Anfield.

You shouldnt make up facts Accy. You might be able blag your way through your Home Economics GCSE exam but you cant blag your way past the clued-up scouseologists on skyscrapercity.
I didnt make it up. I read it (albeit on www.visitpreston.com ;) ) and if I'm wrong fair enough. And its not exactly unlike the Liverpool forumers for making things up lol.

Accura4Matalan

June 15th, 2005, 06:28 PM

BTW Dicky, apologies for the rather 'i couldnt give a toss' reply to your origional post. Go to the Preston thread and check out the timetable on www.aqa.org.uk to see why I have far bigger worries than a slight bump in funding at FM.
And its not 'Home Economics'... its 'Food Technology' ;)

Red scouser

June 15th, 2005, 06:30 PM

City's £54m revamp plan finalised (BBC, June 15 2005)

Plans for a £54m revamp of a rundown part of Liverpool will go before city councillors this month.

The scheme would include the renovation of more than 3,000 houses as part of a 10-year improvement scheme for Toxteth.

The Princes Park Renewal Area would run from Devonshire Road to Kingsley Road and Upper Parliament Street to Devonshire Road.

If approved by Liverpool City Council's executive board - which meets on 24 June - work will start later this year.

Executive member for housing, Councillor Flo Clucas called the proposals great news for residents, adding 63% of people living in the area have an income lower than £10,000 a year, and only a quarter work full-time.

"Almost a third of all properties in this area are likely to fail government decency standards and thanks to feedback from local people we know that they share the same aspirations of other residents in the city," she said.

"They want worn-out housing demolished, and they want to live in a home with a garden that is big enough to support a family."

Funding would come from the government's Housing Market Renewal Initiative, with a contribution from the council's capital programme.

However, proposals to demolish around 460 Victorian terraces properties in the Welsh streets - built mainly to house migrant dockers - have met opposition.

The Liverpool Welsh Society is pressing to retain them as part of the city's Welsh heritage.

Householders affected would be compensated and offered re-housing locally, given specialist advice and tenants possibly helped to become home-owners, the council said.

The authority added no-one will have to leave the neighbourhood unless they choose to do so.

Blabbernsmoke

June 15th, 2005, 09:36 PM

Blabbernsmoke

June 15th, 2005, 09:40 PM

ubertastico

June 16th, 2005, 10:29 PM

Pics taken through a not paricularly clean glass window, I am posting them just cos I know some people like to build up images from different perspectives, not for pic quality.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/zeussy/P6150549.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/zeussy/P6150550.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/zeussy/P6150551.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/zeussy/P6150552.jpg

scouserdave

June 16th, 2005, 10:52 PM

WOW!
I love pics taken from angles I've never seen before. I'm one of those saddos who'll be poring over them for days to cum :weirdo:

Thanks :cheers:

Scarecrow

June 16th, 2005, 10:56 PM

scouserdave

June 17th, 2005, 12:04 AM

For a minute there I thought I could see three Alfred Waterhouse designed buildings in the third pic but I'm probably mistaken. A pint for the person who can circle the one building I'm not sure about! :cheers:

Surprised you missed it Mark. It's obviously this little beauty

http://www.**************************/ejukated.jpg

tommygunn

June 17th, 2005, 01:22 AM

some good pictures there from this lad welll done.

the golden vision

June 17th, 2005, 03:36 AM

For a minute there I thought I could see three Alfred Waterhouse designed buildings in the third pic but I'm probably mistaken. A pint for the person who can circle the one building I'm not sure about! :cheers:
Your right Bunnyman. The University building,the Great Western Hotel and you can just see the spire of the Pearl Assurance building on St John's lane. The prudential on Dale st is just out of the picture.

Scarecrow

June 17th, 2005, 10:44 AM

Pint for Alex Young! :cheers:

the golden vision

June 17th, 2005, 01:41 PM

slurp! :cheers:

Accura4Matalan

June 17th, 2005, 01:55 PM

Although Llangollen does receive a lot of visitors so I can't see going the same way as Pop Museum.

Perhaps Preston's Football museum will be sustained largely by the resident student population- shortly before they realise there is sod all else to do. :)
How would you know? You've probably never even been to Preston.
The FM has an expansion coming up and Deepdale could be made a World Heritage Site as the birthplace of professional football which will up visitor numbers a bit. This years visitor figures should be also upped by the fact that Deepdale has been one of the main venues for Womens Euro 2005.

Accura4Matalan

June 17th, 2005, 02:00 PM

http://img278.echo.cx/img278/7565/deepdale8ig.jpg

laizard

June 17th, 2005, 02:03 PM

Undoubtely the finest and beautiest Football stadions are to be found on british soil, I love those rectangular shapes.....really elegant.....

Paul D

June 17th, 2005, 04:45 PM

Scarecrow

June 17th, 2005, 06:27 PM

Why is Deepdale bidding for WHS status? :? Do they want to limit development at the ground? The Stanley Park area is much better linked historically with footy, with Everton playing their home matches there and Priory Road, becoming the second-ever league champions, winning the league at Unfilled (just as old as Deepdale) and building the worlds first major purpose-built football stadium at Goodison.

JUXTAPOL

June 17th, 2005, 07:46 PM

http://img85.echo.cx/img85/521/aaa5cm.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

12.7 Million Botanic Gardens for City. (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=15641840%26method=full%26siteid=50061%26headline=%2dpound%2d12%2d7m%2dbotanic%2dgarden%2dfor%2dcity-name_page.html)Read about that, look's good, let's hope it's not already "domed" to failure. :)
Some nimby is lurking in their back garden waiting to cry foul, probably a councillor from the other side, for political gain (or loss for us) (still annoyed about the trams and won't be happy until FUNDING IS SORTED). :bash:

Accura4Matalan

June 17th, 2005, 10:53 PM

Scarecrow

June 17th, 2005, 11:18 PM

What experts? Preston city council? :?

scouserdave

June 18th, 2005, 12:03 AM

Liverpool waterfront pano, June 15th

http://www.**************************/tourist/image004.jpg

westisbest

June 18th, 2005, 12:07 AM

our skyline will be one of, if not the best in the country by 2008

westisbest

June 18th, 2005, 12:18 AM

i is going on the ferry 2moro so sum pics will be provided by me :cheers:

Doug Roberts

June 18th, 2005, 02:59 PM

Dave, brilliant pic as usual, Unity is really starting to break out of the background now. Can't wait for Alexander & West Towers with two of Sloyne's cruise ships berthed at the Pier Head this is going to look awesome!!!

Accura4Matalan

June 18th, 2005, 04:24 PM

What experts? Preston city council? :?
No, the FA. Preston council wernt even aware of the bid until 3 days ago.

Accura4Matalan

June 18th, 2005, 04:28 PM

BTW, great pic dave :) The cluster around Old Hall Street is really looking great :)

westisbest

June 18th, 2005, 05:18 PM

http://img110.echo.cx/img110/9500/image0730sj.jpg

http://img253.echo.cx/img253/4980/image0747kv.jpg

http://img253.echo.cx/img253/6223/image0750vt.jpg

westisbest

June 18th, 2005, 05:21 PM

i noticed that Unity Office is bigger than 1 Princes dock. how many floors is unity now?

Paul D

June 18th, 2005, 06:23 PM

Liverpool waterfront pano, June 15th

http://www.**************************/tourist/image004.jpg

Fantastic picture that Dave,the skyline's starting to look better already. :)

begsy

June 18th, 2005, 07:36 PM

Ive never liked the idea of tall buildings in the city center, coz you could not see them from the waterfront, allways thought the dockside was the best place for them.but you allways see St Johns tower on any waterfront photos. what does St Johns equate to in storeys(if it was an office tower), with the 2 Lime st. towers at 27 and 32 floors, and Ballymores 20 and prob. 30+ on Central station Im now quite hopefull these buildings will make an impact on the waterfront. ps I think ive asked this question before. Cheers.

scouserdave

June 18th, 2005, 07:42 PM

what does St Johns equate to in storeys(if it was an office tower)
This is a useful reference (http://www.skyscrapernews.com/bdbsearch.php?city=Liverpool)

Yapachoo

June 18th, 2005, 07:59 PM

liverpolitan

June 18th, 2005, 08:40 PM

Westibest, they are nice pics, I like the last one the best, there is something a bit spooky about it, can't put my finger on it, but there is. You caught the River in an evil mood. The Mersey is a frightening river, more frightening than the Thames, and even when placid it looks very dark and deep and murky.

Martin S

June 18th, 2005, 10:33 PM

i noticed that Unity Office is bigger than 1 Princes dock. how many floors is unity now?

Unity office is now up to five storeys, the service core is up to about 16/17 storeys. the residential tower is up to 11 storeys.

The residential tower will be taller than Beetham 1 but not as high as the ground level is lower in that area.

JUXTAPOL

June 19th, 2005, 03:24 PM

Just a quicky - once again this afternoon the Strand was closed off around Old Hall St. and a MASSIVE crane is being erected. Looks like the same one as a few months back. Apparently that time was so plant equipment could be lifted onto RSA - is it the same this time? It's a very nice crane though, it would be nice if it had a more permanent position on the skyline (BWest for instance).

The queues on Leeds St. were the worst I've seen due to the diversion in place, and due to the hot weather. The big interchange there was an absolute nightmare earlier.

Apologies if this has been answered somewhere else.

From "Big Dig" Website:- Big Dig Website (http://www.bigdig.liverpool.gov.uk/)

King Edward Street: Crane works are programmed for Saturday 18th and Sunday 19th June, weather permitting. The street will be closed between the junction of Great Howard Street and New Quay, and between its junctions with Old Hall Street and the New Quay exit from the Queensway Tunnel from 0001 Saturday, 18th to 2359 Sunday, 19th June to allow crane lifts onto the Royal Sun Alliance Building. The southbound section of King Edward Street will be closed and the offside lane of the northbound section.

Yapachoo

June 19th, 2005, 03:28 PM

Aaah cool ta Jux! A very big crane for doing stuff to the roads!

Blabbernsmoke

June 20th, 2005, 01:57 PM

Perhaps they should improve the service- or encourage the rail authority to improve the crappy infrastructure between Runcorn and Lpool.

Virgin trains back on track Jun 17 2005

By Neil Hodgson, Liverpool Echo

VIRGIN Trains delivered a bitter sweet message for Liverpool last night.

West Coast mainline managing director Charles Belcher revealed that the train service's performance on the Liverpool to London link is improving, with 97% of Virgin's trains arriving on time last Friday and 94.5% operating within timetables yesterday.

But he warned that Liverpool will not get a half-hourly peak time service with the capital until 2008 at the earliest - unless business use improves.

Speaking at a presentation at Liverpool's Albert Dock last night, Mr Belcher said passenger numbers on Virgin's London link with Liverpool are too low to justify adding any extra trains.

At the moment morning and evening peak hour trains are running at 65% capacity. Mr Belcher says it must get to 80% to trigger extra numbers.

The average load factor throughout the day on the Liverpool service is 60%.

Manchester's London route was upgraded to half-hourly peak time links last September thanks to having a bigger market.

He revealed that he has had talks with Liverpool Chamber of Commerce on the prospect of increased services: "I told them, we are running a business just like you are. We need a business base to expand. If you put on a service it just won't generate growth."

Reliability is the key to attracting more passengers, he insisted. A new early morning express link to London stopping only at Runcorn began last Monday and set a new record time of two hours nine minutes.

Mr Belcher believes that could be reduced to two hours, with an average travelling time for most services of two hours 25 minutes.

Between March and May this year 82.5% of Virgin's trains ran on time which was a 7% improvement over the previous quarter.

bustcapl

June 20th, 2005, 03:46 PM

as a someone who has been quick to criticise the service in the past, the train to london has improved infinetly.... and if you book a couple of weeks in advance there are some excellent delas to be had. Hopefully the improvement in performance will encourage more to use... then further increases in services!

Red scouser

June 20th, 2005, 03:51 PM

£52m plan will see axe for 520 homes Jun 20 2005
By Nick Coligan, Liverpool Echo

HUNDREDS of homes in a deprived Liverpool community will be demolished to make way for brand-new housing.

Around 520 terraced properties in the Picton area of Edge Hill will be bulldozed over the next 10 years under a £52m regeneration programme.

Homes in 11 streets around Smithdown Road are to be flattened, around a quarter of which are already empty.

Houses in Scholar Street, Mulliner Street, Underley Street and the even side of Cantsfield Street will be the first to go.

They will be followed by those in Tunstall Street, Garrick Street, Bird Street, Richardson Street, the odd side of Cantsfield Street and part of Webster Road.

Some shop frontages on Smithdown Road will also be pulled down.

But hundreds more Victorian terraces will be refurbished to 21stcentury standards as Liverpool council battles to reach tough new government standards.

Next week, councillors are expected to approve making Picton a renewal area, which means regeneration work can officially start.

It becomes the latest community to be targeted by NewHeartlands, Merseyside's housing market renewal pathfinder.

Renewal areas have already been declared in Kensington, Garston and Anfield, while the Princes Park area of Toxteth is set to follow.

In February last year, officials launched an investigation to find out what condition more than 1,000 properties in Picton are in.

They discovered almost one in five homes in Scholar, Underley and Mulliner Streets were officially unfit for human habitation.

Cllr Flo Clucas, executive member for housing, said: "The community has responded very well in Picton. There is a lot of support for what we want to do.

"There is a degree of flexibility which means we can respond to the needs of residents.

"For example, as a result of consultation in Anfield, we decided against demolishing properties in one area because residents said they were committed to modernising their homes."

Council officials have also pledged to carry out environmental improvements around Picton while demolition and rebuilding is taking place. Those will include quicker removal of flytipping, graffiti removal and increased police patrols.

The plans will be discussed by the council's executive board on Friday.

Blabbernsmoke

June 20th, 2005, 04:19 PM

Excellent article on Toxteth and its regeneration (-and the failings of) since 1982.

http://www.planningresource.co.uk/pp/news/index.cfm?fuseaction=FullDetails&articleUID=d0a14473-af15-45f2-ac0e-a8f297511ba1&e=1

JUXTAPOL

June 20th, 2005, 08:18 PM

pjmulholland

June 20th, 2005, 08:20 PM

Certainly try to avoid cul-de-sacs and suburban style houses if possible.

Toadboy

June 20th, 2005, 08:30 PM

Terraced streets would be great, do them 3 storey with off road parking on the ground level. At 3 stories you could easily add smaller flats to the mix and cater for families, singles and couples.

tommygunn

June 20th, 2005, 09:58 PM

Certainly try to avoid cul-de-sacs and suburban style houses if possible.
just what i thought you dont want lego houses classy modern apartment buildings and houses with balconies are what i was thinking.

scouserdave

June 22nd, 2005, 01:18 AM

Lettuce Prey :cheers:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=227157

pjmulholland

June 22nd, 2005, 02:18 AM

just what i thought you dont want lego houses classy modern apartment buildings and houses with balconies are what i was thinking.

Exactly. If people want a garden each block could have its own private one open only to residents. Cities need density to work best.

Red scouser

June 27th, 2005, 10:36 AM

Some approved planning applications in the last 10 days

23 Temple Street, Liverpool, L2
To erect mixed use development of 5 storeys comprising bar at ground and basement levels, hair salon at first floor and 2 apartments at second, third and fourth floors.

Liverpool University Department of Engineering, Brownlow Hill, Liverpool, L3
To demolish existing tower and link bridge, refurbish & adapt existing buildings, erect new active learning lab and new 3 storey circulation block at rear

27-35 Duke Street, Liverpool, L1
To erect mixed use development comprising 3 commercial units to be used for retail, office or the provision of financial and professional sevices together with 85 no. 1 & 2 bed apartments and duplex units with car parking at ground and basement levels.

St Peters Square, Seel Street, Liverpool, L1
To alter existing escape ramp, create new entrance ramp , new steps and lowered area of square in conncection with access to 49/51 Seel Street and to use area as pavement cafe in conjunction with proposed restaurant at 49/51 Seel Street

Trammy

June 27th, 2005, 11:00 AM

The train story is an interesting one.

The situation Liverpool finds itself in, today, is vastly different from many of it's northern neighbours - it is finally starting to show signs of growth that have been spreading across the provences for quite some time now.

However, it is clear, from the lack of demand for transport to the capital, that Liverpool has a very very long way to go. I'd suggest that the more businesses grow in Liverpool the more their will be demand for trains to London, the article mentions other cities across the north have half hourly services to Euston, this is despite there being over 60 flights a day between the cities as well as the trains.

Infrastructure improvements are vitally important to this goal, which is why the tram failure could be catastrophic to future growth for the city.

Articles like that show the strides being made, but when you read between the lines it does show how much still needs to be done to ensure the disparity fortunes in the northern cities does not continue to grow.

sloyne

June 27th, 2005, 05:38 PM

Articles like that show the strides being made, but when you read between the lines it does show how much still needs to be done to ensure the disparity fortunes in the northern cities does not continue to grow.
But the stomache for a fight with those who control the purse strings and, outsiders who make the decisions that effect the region, is seemingly lacking. There is fight in the local politicians, exhibited by the very public scrap between the Liverpool council leader and the hired help but, how much fight is left to tackle the central government and those mandarins who seem to favour places other than the Liverpool City Region? And not just local politicians but also the local press. The DP&Echo are less than robust in their defense of the area of it's readership. Yes, they will claim a victory in the London City-LPL link but, this was a very easy fight to get behind and, if the victory, as they claim, was so great then why was it a Dutch carrier and not a British one, what took up the route?

I believe the region is not being fully served by either it's elected officials or those exploiting it's financial potential to conduct their business and make a profit.

Blabbernsmoke

June 27th, 2005, 08:46 PM

On www.Yahoo.co.uk there is a Virgin advert at the moment advertising a journey time of 2 hours 9 mins between Liverpool and London, "The return of the train!" That sounds to be a lot quicker than it used to be.

pjmulholland

June 27th, 2005, 08:51 PM

The DP&Echo are less than robust in their defense of the area of it's readership.

Trinity has always been little more then an establishment stooge working to keep a lid of the citys independent spirit.

Trammy

June 28th, 2005, 11:28 AM

outsiders who make the decisions that effect the region

Micheal Hesltine was on Sky News the other day being interviewed (has he got an autobiography out) he was talking about the different roles he held whilst in office.

He went into great detail about the time he spent in the early 80's as environment minister, with responsibility for the inner cities at a time of the riots that affected many of the larger cities.

He talked about the work he did with councils that were basically totally idealogically opposed to the government that he was working for - however, he said he was getting totally different responses from different councils.

Despite Manchester CC literally hating the government of the time, they accepted for the better of the people, they would have to work with the government of the time to ensure there was not a repeat of the Moss Side riots, shortly afterwards the Bull Rings started to come down, and the first developments started in Manchester (e.g. Castlefield).

However, he described working with Liverpool CC as an absolute nightmare, he said they were totally obstructive, and would simply not work with the governemt of the day on idealistic grounds, meaning that the develeopments starting to happen elsewhere in the north were not going to be replicated in Liverpool.

He went on to say that this has put the city back decades, and still worries that there is a similiar culture in Liverpool of lack of willingness to work with government is still hindering the cities progress.

Awayo

June 28th, 2005, 11:42 AM

Trammy, he was talking about the short-lived Militant dominated city council of the mid-eighties, and it would be difficult for most to disagree with him.

The council has subsequently been run by the Liberals, mainstream old labour and, since 1998, the Lib Dems. You, and Tarzan, are talking about a period of politics a generation ago that did not last for long in any case.

Development did start in Liverpool in the mind-80s with the Albert Dock and the South Docks, it should be noted, but under the aegis of the Merseyside Development Corporation that was excempt from local authority planning permission.

Damon

June 28th, 2005, 11:43 AM

...

Damon

June 28th, 2005, 11:44 AM

However, he described working with Liverpool CC as an absolute nightmare, he said they were totally obstructive, and would simply not work with the governemt of the day on idealistic grounds, meaning that the develeopments starting to happen elsewhere in the north were not going to be replicated in Liverpool.

He went on to say that this has put the city back decades, and still worries that there is a similiar culture in Liverpool of lack of willingness to work with government is still hindering the cities progress.

That may well be true - Liverpool's council during that period was significantly more ideologically driven than Manchester's or even Sheffield's as we all know. However, the development of the Albert Dock, the opening of the hugely successful Tate Gallery, the launch of National Museums and Galleries on Merseyside (now National Museums Liverpool) all occurred around the same time as the development of Castlefield. It isn't the case that Liverpool was devoid of development even during this tremendously difficult period.

Awayo

June 28th, 2005, 12:25 PM

Scarecrow

June 28th, 2005, 12:49 PM

It'd be great when she dies though. I'll get the bunting, you bring the cake. :cheers:

tommygunn

June 28th, 2005, 02:43 PM

isnt Trammy always full of exicting news.

Trammy

June 28th, 2005, 03:34 PM

tommy - I was responding to the quote that is at the top of my post, simply pointing out there is two sides to the story that 'Liverpool is always picked on'.

Paul D

June 28th, 2005, 03:36 PM

It'd be great when she dies though. I'll get the bunting, you bring the cake. :cheers:

Yes so will I but she's having a state funeral which we're going to pay for.

tommygunn

June 28th, 2005, 04:07 PM

tommy - I was responding to the quote that is at the top of my post, simply pointing out there is two sides to the story that 'Liverpool is always picked on'.
oh right sorry mate didnt see that.

sloyne

June 28th, 2005, 05:29 PM

However, he described working with Liverpool CC as an absolute nightmare, he said they were totally obstructive, and would simply not work with the governemt of the day on idealistic grounds, and still worries that there is a similiar culture in Liverpool of lack of willingness to work with government is still hindering the cities progress.
Looking in from a distance, I can see this same pattern and it looks, to me, as if Storey and the Lib-Dems are as ideologically intransigent as was Hatton and the Militants. I don't believe that Labour, new or old, would be any less dogmatic, in fact, I think they would be, if not worse, every bit as bad. No doubt, Hatton and the Trotskyites damaged Liverpool but, nowhere near as bad as the damage done by Thatcher. The weapon used by Thatcher (the full weight of her government) was far and away out of proportion to the threat posed by the hand full Trotskyites controlling Liverpool city council and, the Thatcherites were totally aware but, disinterested to the suffering their policies caused the citizens of Liverpool.

But, and notwithstanding the foregoing, it is said? "You get the government you deserve".

Blabbernsmoke

June 28th, 2005, 10:16 PM

Interestingly, the reason why relatively small numbers of Trotskyists were able to become dominant for a short period in Liverpool CC was that Labour was historically weak in Liverpool with small numberships in its local associations. It took only a handful of ideologically-motivated people to organise and take over the local party.

Unlike most other large cities in the UK, Liverpool does not have a history of Labour dominance of its local government. Labour had Tory councils until the late 60s, and a Liberal Council in the 70s. Compare with with cities such as Manchester and Sheffield who have had Labour councils for decades long stretches.

The scale of Liverpool's economic difficulties by the early eighties, plus the crippling unfair budget that the council had inherited from the Liberal coucil led by Trevor Jones were such that political resistance had a more wider appeal than to only the hard-left Militants in the council. The short lived Militant period, did Liverpool a lot of harm, not least because it gave the egregious Thatcherite wing of the Tory party an enemy, and boy did they like to have enemies, with the whole city of Liverpool suffering as a result.

If you want an explanation for the Thatcherite Simon Heffer's essentially racist editorial in the Spectatator after Ken Bigley's murder, you need to understand where characters such as he come from; where he cut his ideological teeth. Southern Thatcherite bigots, who knew nothing of Liverpool's (often right wing, I'm afraid) history were given a new enemy and like all bigots relished the opportunity to stereotype entire populations. For them, Liverpool was incorrigable, it must be having economic problems because its people are essentially worthless (how this would explain several centuries of ecnomic success prior to this period, they failed to discuss), there was political and trades union resistance to the Thatcher government's policies because, its people were ungovernable and should be put in their place like a recalitrant tribe in C19th Africa (although how this would explain decades of pro-business Tory councils in Liverpool?).

Somewhere kicking around in the bowells of this bigotted ideology was a perhaps subconscious recognition that Liverpool is somewhat different temperatmentally, or perhaps, ethnically from a lot of England which gave the sort people who would love to be racist but who no longer get away with being an excuse to expound racist-type theories to explain the hatefulness of a city that they perceived as having resisted their right-wing ideology.

Most of the shite believed (and more rarely expressed, e.g. the recent Bigley editorial) by these right wing bigots is very similar to the hate-filled racism that was written about the Irish in previous years and about the catholic Irish by northern protestants. "They're poor because, they're lazy and their feckless, not because have been disadvantaged for discriminated against: they deserve to be where they are", etc. I do find the fact that the Republic of Ireland is now a richer and more successful country than the UK highly amusing. Quite how Simon Heffer-type bigots will explain that I don't know.

I look forward to a successful Liverpool for similar reasons.

The propagation of this mythology, with the help of the London Tory press is why Liverpool's image suffered in the 80s. As I said, the Militant period was very shortlived, but Militant's enemies in the Thatcherite establishment made sure that the whole city suffered afterwards.

Basically, the Thatcherites had it in for Liverpool (not Heseltine, he wasn't a Thatcherite) and these people were more than willing to try to destroy entire populations for ideological reason. You don't have to be paranoid to think this: look what they did to the coal miners, in numbers similar in size to the city of Liverpool. They and their communities were gleefully destroyed beyond any economic case for having the potential to harm (or even bring down) Tory governments.

Maybe it would have been better for Liverpool to have been a good little boy in the 80s and worked with the government as Manchester did, and both Liverpool and Manchester both do today. However, the city suffered massively and unfairly for its brief show of resistance. Thatcher and her lackeys weren't a nice bunch of people to pick a fight with.

Awayo, at the expense of sounding like a school teacher, that was an excellent and thought-provoking post.

I don't think it is remotely paranoid to suggest that the Thatcher governments pursued flawed policies out of political expedience. It was done on many well- documented occassions including the revenge against the Militants in Lpool (-and the dogmatic and bigoted stereotyping this required.) Take, for example, the case of the Metropolitan councils. Thatcher hated Ken Livingstone and the GLC; he stood in her way wherever she turned. So what did they do- destroy all of the Labour dominated Met councils on the grounds (-yeah right!) that it was for reasons of efficiency. This decision left local government in a state of disarray (to this day), particularly with repsect to planning.

There is a common theme amongst Thatcher's more destructive policies, and this shouldn't come as a surprise to anybody, they were intended to serve a political purpose which belies the 'official' bull shit that is often spouted.

As with any hard-right regime there always has to be a hateful, bigoted ideology justifying the 'wars' that are fought for power (-think about the so-called War on Terror being waged by the American Right). Whether it was Thatcher against Argentina, Arthur Scargill, Ken Livingstone, the Liverpool militants- it was always a war where people had to be crushed- regardless of the long-term costs. For the hard right, everything is always black and white.

As Awayo points out- the right-wing view on things cannot explain why Liverpool was so prosperous, even up until the late 1960s, after centuries of growth. It can't explain why Lpool was 90% Conservative voting in the 1960s and still 60% in 1979 when Thatcher was voted into power!
The likes of The Spectator publication are just full of shit designed to appeal to nationalist, prejudiced tossers who don't have the intellect to see the garbage they are being fed. (-the same applies to hard left publications too IMO.)

highriser

June 30th, 2005, 02:43 PM

My apoligies if this as been posted before,,,great render of a tower for behind Liverpool Central station.
http://www.liverpoolvision.co.uk/documents/ccduissue11/issue11.pdf

Scarecrow

June 30th, 2005, 02:49 PM

Aye. That's the Ballymore plan. We've seen it before, but one more time won't hurt. :)

They're currently seeking planning permission to built two towers behind central station. I'll keep you posted once renderings/more info has been made available. :cheers:

You've just reminded me! Mowlem have sealed off a large chunk of Bold Street running next to central station. Demolition and planning approval may be imminent. :)

Scarecrow

June 30th, 2005, 02:57 PM

There is a decent renderoid of Unity on page 17 as well. :)

tommygunn

June 30th, 2005, 03:13 PM

There is a decent renderoid of Unity on page 17 as well. :)
seen that too it looks tall and thin not sqaut like on some of the other renders.

the golden vision

June 30th, 2005, 05:10 PM

Awayo, at the expense of sounding like a school teacher, that was an excellent and thought-provoking post.

I don't think it is remotely paranoid to suggest that the Thatcher governments pursued flawed policies out of political expedience. It was done on many well- documented occassions including the revenge against the Militants in Lpool (-and the dogmatic and bigoted stereotyping this required.) Take, for example, the case of the Metropolitan councils. Thatcher hated Ken Livingstone and the GLC; he stood in her way wherever she turned. So what did they do- destroy all of the Labour dominated Met councils on the grounds (-yeah right!) that it was for reasons of efficiency. This decision left local government in a state of disarray (to this day), particularly with repsect to planning.

There is a common theme amongst Thatcher's more destructive policies, and this shouldn't come as a surprise to anybody, they were intended to serve a political purpose which belies the 'official' bull shit that is often spouted.

As with any hard-right regime there always has to be a hateful, bigoted ideology justifying the 'wars' that are fought for power (-think about the so-called War on Terror being waged by the American Right). Whether it was Thatcher against Argentina, Arthur Scargill, Ken Livingstone, the Liverpool militants- it was always a war where people had to be crushed- regardless of the long-term costs. For the hard right, everything is always black and white.

As Awayo points out- the right-wing view on things cannot explain why Liverpool was so prosperous, even up until the late 1960s, after centuries of growth. It can't explain why Lpool was 90% Conservative voting in the 1960s and still 60% in 1979 when Thatcher was voted into power!
The likes of The Spectator publication are just full of shit designed to appeal to nationalist, prejudiced tossers who don't have the intellect to see the garbage they are being fed. (-the same applies to hard left publications too IMO.)
Liverpool has never been 90% conservative, not the city council anyway. There was a majority of conservative MP's for a long time and this was due to a Conservative policy in Liverpool of divide and rule. Sectarianism was the major factor in working class voters voting tory in Liverpool which continued in to the early seventies. Thankfully that is the all the past.