http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y215/atoom/Anshan/Dandong/d1.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y215/atoom/Anshan/Dandong/d2.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y215/atoom/Anshan/Dandong/d3.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y215/atoom/Anshan/Dandong/d4.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y215/atoom/Anshan/Dandong/d5.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y215/atoom/Anshan/Dandong/d6.jpg

天哪~真不敢想像幾公里外就是北韓...

天哪~真不敢想像幾公里外就是北韓...

其實河對岸就是朝鮮（北韓），你能從圖片裏隱約看到的 :)

從照片裡看不出來在北韓的邊界有什麼預防北韓難民偷渡到中國的設施。

我雖然同情北韓難民，可是他們給中國造出很多問題。如果他們安安靜靜的在中國內過生活也就算了，可是偏偏有些北韓難民就是要去闖進在北京的外國大使館，造成中國不管怎麼做都不好。如果中國讓這些難民闖進外國的大使館的話，這也就是不遵守與北韓的約定，如果不讓這些難民闖的話又變成沒人性。不管怎麼樣，美國是一定會繼續摧毀中國的名譽的。

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y215/atoom/Anshan/Dandong/d2.jpg

Those apartments look nice. The view on the other side of the river must be one of the world's most mysterious.

從照片裡看不出來在北韓的邊界有什麼預防北韓難民偷渡到中國的設施。

我雖然同情北韓難民，可是他們給中國造出很多問題。如果他們安安靜靜的在中國內過生活也就算了，可是偏偏有些北韓難民就是要去闖進在北京的外國大使館，造成中國不管怎麼做都不好。如果中國讓這些難民闖進外國的大使館的話，這也就是不遵守與北韓的約定，如果不讓這些難民闖的話又變成沒人性。不管怎麼樣，美國是一定會繼續摧毀中國的名譽的。

Well said!

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y215/atoom/Anshan/Dandong/d2.jpg

Those apartments look nice. The view on the other side of the river must be one of the world's most mysterious.

i thought you cant read Chinese :eek2:

raymond_tung88 comes from Singapore,right?

i dont know.

Nope... I come from Toronto, Canada. I don't read Chinese sorry... but i'm not asking you to speak in English...

@raymond_tung88

Welcome~~

從照片裡看不出來在北韓的邊界有什麼預防北韓難民偷渡到中國的設施。

我雖然同情北韓難民，可是他們給中國造出很多問題。如果他們安安靜靜的在中國內過生活也就算了，可是偏偏有些北韓難民就是要去闖進在北京的外國大使館，造成中國不管怎麼做都不好。如果中國讓這些難民闖進外國的大使館的話，這也就是不遵守與北韓的約定，如果不讓這些難民闖的話又變成沒人性。不管怎麼樣，美國是一定會繼續摧毀中國的名譽的。

朝鮮那面有軍隊在防止朝鮮人偷渡，中國大陸這邊在鴨綠江上有巡邏艇在監視以防止偷渡，不過仍有些人偷渡，聽説萬一如果被抓住遣返回朝鮮后，就是叛國罪論處。

那些已在中國大陸的朝鮮人去闖大使館、領事館，其實是受韓國人指使的，目的是為國内宣傳，同時也向中國施壓，就拿瀋陽來説吧，很多韓國人打着傳播基督教的口號，卻從事教唆朝鮮人闖管還有間諜等工作，純粹是挂羊頭買狗肉。

Nope... I come from Toronto, Canada. I don't read Chinese sorry... but i'm not asking you to speak in English...

no, that's not what i meant, i was actually curious how do you know the other side of the river is North Korea if you cant read Chinese characters?

朝鮮那面有軍隊在防止朝鮮人偷渡，中國大陸這邊在鴨綠江上有巡邏艇在監視以防止偷渡，不過仍有些人偷渡，聽説萬一如果被抓住遣返回朝鮮后，就是叛國罪論處。

那些已在中國大陸的朝鮮人去闖大使館、領事館，其實是受韓國人指使的，目的是為國内宣傳，同時也向中國施壓，就拿瀋陽來説吧，很多韓國人打着傳播基督教的口號，卻從事教唆朝鮮人闖管還有間諜等工作，純粹是挂羊頭買狗肉。
原來是南韓搞得... 可惡...

China deport all illegal North Koreans in China to SOuth Korea, since they are more than happy to accept them.

really？

The last time I heard there are quite a few North Korean refugees living quitely in China, namely Northeastern China and some in Beijing.

When I went to Beijing two summers ago I met some friends from South Korea. We went to a local Korean restaurant and he told me that the waitresses there spoke Korean with a North Korean accent. They didn't look Han or South Korean so I assumed they were North Korean refugees.

Anyway, I think China's current policy is that as long as these North Korean refugees don't cause any troubles they are allowed to stay and work in China. But some NK refugees simply refuse to be grateful and instead cause commotions like breaking into foreign embassies and make China look bad.

The last time I heard there are quite a few North Korean refugees living quitely in China, namely Northeastern China and some in Beijing.

When I went to Beijing two summers ago I met some friends from South Korea. We went to a local Korean restaurant and he told me that the waitresses there spoke Korean with a North Korean accent. They didn't look Han or South Korean so I assumed they were North Korean refugees.


Sino-Koreans(Koreans with Chinese citizenship) also speak a dialect that's similar to North Koreans.

Anyway, I think China's current policy is that as long as these North Korean refugees don't cause any troubles they are allowed to stay and work in China. But some NK refugees simply refuse to be grateful and instead cause commotions like breaking into foreign embassies and make China look bad.

China's official policy is deportation of North Korean refugees back to North Korea. If China was so lineant on North Korean refugees, there wouldn't be South Korean private organizations trying to provide secret shelters hidden from Chinese authorities and help them escape from China via Vietnam and Mongolia. No one would be breaking into foreign embassies and make "China look bad", if China accepts the status of North Korean escapees as refugees, and lets UN, or at least the South Korean private organizations, to help the refugees seek a safe path into South Korea.

Of course if a North Korea refugee was caught he or she would be deported back to North Korea. But according to many sources, there are many NK refugees who simply chose to cause trouble and remain quiet within China. If China wanted to, they could easily crack down on them.

China has the responsibility to send NK refugees back to because it's part of their treaty with NK. NK refugees who cross the border are doing it illegally anyway. If South Koreans really cared so much, they wouldn't drag China into their own problem. In the end, NK refugees are Koreans and they are a Korean problem, not Chinese.

I didn't mean for that to sound cold but it's the truth.

well you see its easy for North Koreans to cross Yalu river than DMZ.

well you see its easy for North Koreans to cross Yalu river than DMZ.
Does that make it OK?

------------

Anyway, before anyone starts to point fingers and make accusations... I am not anti-Korean...

Everything I stated above are merely my own personal opinions. Like I said earlier (in Chinese) I do sympathize with the North Korean refugees but they simply aren't Chinese problems. China has many problems of her own as it is. If Chinese refugees were causing trouble for another country, I'd feel bad too.

well my point is...if they want to go to SK and SK wants them we should just send them to SK. in the end everyone is happy. except North Korea. who cares about NOrth Korea anyways? we are supplying them with fuel and food, and they are building nuclear bombs causing troubles for us. I dont think NK is going to make a big deal out of it over some North Koreans going to SK via China when we can shut their entire country down.

well my point is...if they want to go to SK and SK wants them we should just send them to SK.

No, we shouldn't and cant, you forget the treaty between PRC and N.Korea. :)

we are supplying them with fuel and food, and they are building nuclear bombs causing troubles for us..

这个背后其实是有中国默认的, 东北亚的形式其实就是中国跟米国的问题, 朝鲜和韩国其实说不上话, 如果没有中国的默认, 朝鲜根本不敢.

we cant scrap that treaty?

course not,strategically, N.korea is our ally as it is :)

From the CIA book:

North korea:
Life expectancy at birth:
total population: 71.37 years
male: 68.65 years
female: 74.22 years (2005 est.)

South Korea
Life expectancy at birth:
total population: 75.82 years
male: 72.19 years
female: 79.76 years (2005 est.)

China
Life expectancy at birth:
total population: 72.27 years
male: 70.65 years
female: 74.09 years (2005 est.)

you know, we heard millions of death or even cannibalism in N.Korea due to hunger but life expectancy there doesn't seem bad. so i guess maybe the food shortage in NK is exaggerated!? Could anybody especially theS.koreans here explain this?

Of course if a North Korea refugee was caught he or she would be deported back to North Korea. But according to many sources, there are many NK refugees who simply chose to cause trouble and remain quiet within China. If China wanted to, they could easily crack down on them.

Cracking down on them may not be as easy as you think. There are many places to hide, and you can purchase fake Chinese IDs if you have the money. Think about visiting every homes in Manchuria and searching their every rooms, then cross-checking their IDs with computer databases. That's not easy, not at all.

Back in 1990s, I was residing in a Chinese residential area in Beijing, which was illegal for foreigners back then. There were about three crackdowns through the duration of two years, and I managed to hide from the authorities everytime. It was simple really; pay the landlord some extra and have the maid answer the door. All I did was just stay in my room.

Now, North Koreans are a lot more desperate then I am. Maybe they could quietly go out the window during crackdowns, or hide under a bed. In some rural areas, they might as well dig a hole in the ground, hide there and cover it with something. Or they could just stay in their rooms quietly and just hope that the Chinese authorities won't waste their precious time by searching every rooms in Manchuria.

China has the responsibility to send NK refugees back to because it's part of their treaty with NK. NK refugees who cross the border are doing it illegally anyway. If South Koreans really cared so much, they wouldn't drag China into their own problem. In the end, NK refugees are Koreans and they are a Korean problem, not Chinese.

I do know China's treaty with NK and that China is very faithful to it. I know. So does the South Korean government. The South Korean government, namely the National Intelligence Agency, discourages South Korean private organizations in aiding North Korean refugees in China to avoid diplomatic conflicts with China and North Korea. It's up to China if they want to help the North Korean refugees escape from the misery of child labor(begging), human trafficking(selling women to marriage) and prostitution. All they have to do is just shut their eyes and let South Korea sneak in - we will do the work. This is the case in South-east Asia and Mongolia. One of the South-east Asian nations, probably Vietnam, secretly helped the South Korean government take away the refugees by flight. It's China's decision if they want to do something as noble as what Vietnam(probably) did in the name of humanity. It's China's decision, so this makes it China's problem.

Anyways, I think one small step China can do is at least let the UN do something on the North Korean refugee problem.

I do know China's treaty with NK and that China is very faithful to it. I know. So does the South Korean government. The South Korean government, namely the National Intelligence Agency, discourages South Korean private organizations in aiding North Korean refugees in China to avoid diplomatic conflicts with China. It's up to China if they want to help the North Korean refugees escape from the misery of child labor(begging), human trafficking(selling women to marriage) and prostitution. All they have to do is just shut their eyes and let South Korea sneak in - we will do the work. This is the case in South-east Asia and Mongolia. One of the South-east Asian nations, probably Vietnam, secretly helped the South Korean government take away the refugees by flight. It's China's decision if they want to do something as noble as what Vietnam(probably) did in the name of humanity. It's China's decision, so this makes it China's problem.
Vietnam and Mongolia don't have any treaties with North Korea regarding returning NK refugees. That makes a huge difference. If China didn't have a treaty with NK regarding returning the refugees, I would fully support the PRC government doing anything they can to help NK refugees to go to SK.

Like I said, I sympathize with the NK refugees, I also may not like the situation in NK but in the end, NK acts as a buffer zone to keep SK & U.S. forces from invading China. China's security and safety is more important. I wouldn't sacrifice China's future for North Koreans.

Vietnam and Mongolia don't have any treaties with North Korea regarding returning NK refugees. That makes a huge difference. If China didn't have a treaty with NK regarding returning the refugees, I would fully support the PRC government doing anything they can to help NK refugees to go to SK.

Like I said, I sympathize with the NK refugees, I also may not like the situation in NK but in the end, NK acts as a buffer zone to keep SK & U.S. forces from invading China. China's security and safety is more important. I wouldn't sacrifice China's future for North Koreans.

I don't know if Vietnam has any specific treaties regarding North Korean refugees, but I do know it's one of North Korea's few allies, which are Vietnam, China and Ethiopia.

Like I said, I sympathize with the NK refugees, I also may not like the situation in NK but in the end, NK acts as a buffer zone to keep SK & U.S. forces from invading China. China's security and safety is more important. I wouldn't sacrifice China's future for North Koreans.

Even if Korea remains an ally of the United States, an actual invasion is improbable, because Korea has a lot to lose from a war with China. China replaced the U.S. as Korea's largest exports market, and Koreans have a lot of assets in China, from factories to real estate. As long as China doesn't do anything EXTREMELY foolish such as trying to invade Korea or infringe on Korean investments and business interests to the point that Korea would have nothing to lose in a war with China(this would be a lot of infringement), Korea won't invade China, unless we want our economy to crash to a third world state.

Korea will reunite someday, and most likely will remain an ally with the Americans. However, this military aspect can be balanced off by Korea's close economic ties to China, so in a way such turnout of events can bring a very harmonious balance in East Asia.

Man.. I just said "harmonious". I feel so Chinese right now :D

well my point is...if they want to go to SK and SK wants them we should just send them to SK. in the end everyone is happy. except North Korea. who cares about NOrth Korea anyways? we are supplying them with fuel and food, and they are building nuclear bombs causing troubles for us. I dont think NK is going to make a big deal out of it over some North Koreans going to SK via China when we can shut their entire country down.

This guy knows what he is talking about.

NK knows China wouldn't dare "shutting their entire country down" in the near future though. As of today, China needs NK more than most people might think. As mentione dbefore, NK serves as a buffer zone to keep U.S. military forces out of China's front yard. Without NK, U.S. military forces would be just across the border. That would be a great threat for China.

Cydevil is right that a united Korea would more likely to still be militarily-influenced by the U.S. although more economically-influenced by China. But when it comes down to it, political influence is still greater than economical influence. At the end of the day, as long as SK hosts U.S. military forces, it's a threat to China.

Do Chinese like the idea of Unified Korea? or just seperated Korea.:) Im really interested in Chinese opinions. :)

It's a difficult question.

Being a Chinese from Taiwan, I COMPLETELY understand how Koreans feel having their countries disunified... I also have several Korean friends and are quite close to them. All political issues aside, I would strongly support a unified Korea. :)

However... unfortunately in reality politics play a major role... being Chinese, the security and safety of China comes before anything else. Having a unified Korea (most likely under SK rule) would be a bad idea for China politically for reasons mentioned repeatedly above :)

Thank you Pangu:) As im not very fluent in English language i quite didnt understand some posts here. :sleepy:

At the end of the day, as long as SK hosts U.S. military forces, it's a threat to China.

China's a threat to Korea as long as it maintains a massive army, so we have our reasons as well. I think this will become another cold war, but with much "friendlier" relations and much closer economic ties. Ultimately, I think this will serve humanity a lot of good in the end, because this will fuel competition between the U.S. and China in a "peaceful" military conflict, which will bring a lot of advancements in technologies; progress of civilization will once again be put on fire. Who knows? Someday this may advance to a space-based cold war, and we may see X-wings flying around in space.

China's a threat to Korea as long as it maintains a massive army, so we have our reasons as well. I think this will become another cold war, but with much "friendlier" relations and much closer economic ties. Ultimately, I think this will serve humanity a lot of good in the end, because this will fuel competition between the U.S. and China in a "peaceful" military conflict, which will bring a lot of advancements in technologies; progress of civilization will once again be put on fire. Who knows? Someday this may advance to a space-based cold war, and we may see X-wings flying around in space.
Of course, a "threat" often goes both ways.

I wish I shared your optimitism. My personal opinion is that U.S. won't stop its aggressive ways until it rules the whole world...

Of course, a "threat" often goes both ways.

I wish I shared your optimitism. My personal opinion is that U.S. won't stop its aggressive ways until it rules the whole world...

I'm "optimistic" that China will become a world power someday, even more powerful than the U.S. This is why I'm stressing a Korea-Japan-American alliance, because I think this is the only way Korea, Japan or the U.S. can counter-balance China's military power. In a balanced state, states on neither sides have anything to gain from a war with eachother. Pretty much how Soviet Union and the U.S. never went on an official war. Again, this will become a cold war, but it will also be very different that there will be no Berlin wall, no Olympics embargo, and no iron curtain. Instead, there will be Americans doing business in Shanghai, Chinese exporting goods to the U.S., and a unified Korea extensively connected to the Chinese mainland with roads and railways, and maybe even a connection to Japan.

Well, you've made it very clear which side you're on... :)

People in the policy establishment think that it is more likely a SK-China vs. Japan-US alliance.

But things change rapidly. Wasn't it just six months ago that Koreans were more interested in a Korea-China territorial dispute than the Korea-Japan one?

dont care

^ I think its more like "dont know" :)

People in the policy establishment think that it is more likely a SK-China vs. Japan-US alliance.
That doesn't seem very likely.

Japan would side with U.S. for sure, whether volunteerily or not...

As for South Korea, I seriously doubt they would ally with China considering their current relationship with U.S. The only way I see a possibly China-Korea alliance is if somehow China manages to help reunite Korea (under SK's rule of course...) But even then, it's hard to say.

But things change rapidly. Wasn't it just six months ago that Koreans were more interested in a Korea-China territorial dispute than the Korea-Japan one?
Very true indeed. :)

People in the policy establishment think that it is more likely a SK-China vs. Japan-US alliance.

The SK armed forces uses a lot of U.S. weapons and supplies, so unless you're interested in using tons of money in replacing much of it, it is in the best interest of SK to remain an ally for weapon procurements. Also, even the current policy makers expressed their strong distrust on China. President Roh and his administration may have been daydreaming about a SK-China alliance since he is anti-U.S., but China's moves on Goguryeo pretty much screwed it up.

But things change rapidly. Wasn't it just six months ago that Koreans were more interested in a Korea-China territorial dispute than the Korea-Japan one?

I believe it was a historical dispute, not a territorial one. Yeah that event did change a lot of things, it gave those naive yellow smileys(Woori Dang) a real kick in the ass. I remember from a poll that Woori Dang preferred China than the U.S. as a strategic partner, but another poll taken after the historical dispute said otherwise.

Great pics. :)

That China wants NK as a buffer zone... but the refugee problem is not China's problem...
is kind of counterdicting...

This is just a `minor' cost China is paying in its effort to maintain NK regime.

Much larger bill will be required in case of sudden regime collapse or turmoil...
I wonder what chinese reaction will be like in that situation. Will China pick up the bill
or freak out?

There's a saying that goes
"see your friends and know who you are"...

I see the friends of Kim Jong-Il and know who/what they are...

從照片裡看不出來在北韓的邊界有什麼預防北韓難民偷渡到中國的設施。

我雖然同情北韓難民，可是他們給中國造出很多問題。如果他們安安靜靜的在中國內過生活也就算了，可是偏偏有些北韓難民就是要去闖進在北京的外國大使館，造成中國不管怎麼做都不好。如果中國讓這些難民闖進外國的大使館的話，這也就是不遵守與北韓的約定，如果不讓這些難民闖的話又變成沒人性。不管怎麼樣，美國是一定會繼續摧毀中國的名譽的。
將心比心吧...
如果你是北韓難民,就算可以安靜的呆在中國大陸,可是看到南韓人擁有的一切,誰不想去冒這個險?!
大陸偷渡客偷渡來台也是一樣道理.同樣是中國人,當然會更希望自己擁有別人生來就有自己卻沒有的東西.

Dandong, 2009

http://bbs.home.news.cn/upfiles/0455E6EC.002C

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That China wants NK as a buffer zone... but the refugee problem is not China's problem...
is kind of counterdicting...
First of all, China isn't exactly spending every penny they have to search for North Korean refugees in China. If a NK refugee decides to stay quiet and out of sight, China has no reason to spend money on catching them and sending them back to NK. Most, if not all, NK refugees who were caught and sent back by China are those who made themselves too visible like when they charged into foreign embassies.

BTW NK refugees are definitely China's problem. To make it more clear, they become China's problem when they make themselves too visible because then they have to make the hard decision between appearing inhumane on the international stage or risk offending their NK ally/card.

There's a saying that goes
"see your friends and know who you are"...

I see the friends of Kim Jong-Il and know who/what they are...
That may be true and applicable to most people on an individual basis. However, the same saying is too naive to be applied to the international political world.

Do you honestly believe two countries could truly care about each other? It's all about self-interests and nations with the same, or similar, interests (at the moment) tend to form alliances and/or partnerships. It just so happens that in this case, China and NK are both "communist" in name and neither are part of U.S.'s faction. China is using NK as a buffer zone and NK is using China as a resource for food and supplies.

Do you truly think Hu Jintao and Kim Jong-il hold hands and take long walks on the beach?

將心比心吧...
如果你是北韓難民,就算可以安靜的呆在中國大陸,可是看到南韓人擁有的一切,誰不想去冒這個險?!
大陸偷渡客偷渡來台也是一樣道理.同樣是中國人,當然會更希望自己擁有別人生來就有自己卻沒有的東西.
也許，大家都想要沒有的東西，可是做事有合法的方式和犯法的方式。我的鄰居買了新的大銀幕電視，我可以努力賺錢去買或是偷他的。你覺得那個選擇是對的？

當然，我知道這世界不是那麼黑白的，可是我們有法律是有個原因的。總不能公開的鼓勵人們犯法吧？

Most recent photos of Dandong

http://bbs.home.news.cn/upfiles/0459AD10.002C

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http://bbs.home.news.cn/upfiles/0456107B.002C

Are you sure this is Dandong?

^^ looks kinda like Dubai...:lol:


Hmmm...i wonder why some of the streets above doesn't have any lines. How would the drivers know what lane they're on? hehe

How would the drivers know what lane they're on? hehe

knowing some drivers in china, i get the feeling that they won't mind too much... lol...

^^ looks kinda like Dubai...:lol:


Hmmm...i wonder why some of the streets above doesn't have any lines. How would the drivers know what lane they're on? hehe

if it is no line, some are single line~

Dandong is my hometown~ it is a peaceful city~welcome to my city~!!~

http://fmn.rrfmn.com/fmn041/20090817/2100/p_large_ZfjB_130c000103b32d10.jpg

http://fmn.rrfmn.com/fmn039/20090817/2100/p_large_tMhs_130e000213032d10.jpg

http://fmn.rrfmn.com/fmn038/20090817/2100/p_large_OG3z_130800002b352d10.jpg

http://fmn.rrfmn.com/fmn043/20091027/2015/p_large_JJYz_06350002ad672d0f.jpg

http://fmn.rrfmn.com/fmn045/20090722/1500/p_large_0e5D_86n016062.jpg

http://fmn.rrfmn.com/fmn042/20090715/2310/p_large_odqE_2625o017011.jpg

http://fmn.rrfmn.com/fmn055/20110109/1515/p_large_rDjr_7c1200042bc45c43.jpg

left hand is North korea, Right hand is China~

http://fmo.xnimg.cn/fmn009/pic001/20080810/14/55/large_1834e92.jpg

http://fmn.rrfmn.com/fmn043/20100225/1420/p_large_T1Xj_1d05000095f12d0b.jpg

left hand is North korea, Right hand is China~

http://fmo.xnimg.cn/fmn009/pic001/20080810/14/55/large_1834e92.jpg

http://fmn.rrfmn.com/fmn043/20100225/1420/p_large_T1Xj_1d05000095f12d0b.jpg

well, wow you live in a beautiful city and wow look at NK side. Quite frankly, lights out on one side, party on another.

Dandong update October 2010
http://dcbbs.zol.com.cn/57/14_563123.html

http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af45/TibetMonk_China/Dandong%20China/9347788.jpg

http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af45/TibetMonk_China/Dandong%20China/9347784.jpg

http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af45/TibetMonk_China/Dandong%20China/9347789.jpg

http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af45/TibetMonk_China/Dandong%20China/9347785.jpg

http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af45/TibetMonk_China/Dandong%20China/9347787.jpg

From http://onedayonephoto.com/

http://onedayonephoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/dandong_train_station_square.jpg

From http://onedayonephoto.com/

http://onedayonephoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/dandong_china_north_korea.jpg

http://onedayonephoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/dandong_street.jpg

http://onedayonephoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/dandong_photographer.jpg