some nice pics of serbian architecture in kosovo:

GRACANICA CHURCH IN GRACANICA

Gracanica Monastery one of King Milutin's last monumental endowments. It is situated in the village of Gracanica, 5 km. from Pristina, the administrative centre of Kosovo and Metohija region. The monastery is in the close vicinity of Lipljan, the ancient Roman town of Ulpiana, and the old residence of bishops. Gracanica was constructed on the ruins of an older 13th-century church of the Theotokos, which was built on the ruins of a 6th-century early Christian three-naved basilica.

In the charter inscribed on the south wall of the chapel, King Milutin says: "I saw the devastation and fall of the church of the Holy Theotokos of Gracanica, Bishopric of Lipljan, I had it built from the foundation stone, I had it inscribed and decorated from the inside and from the outside." All this happened in the year 6830, that is, in 1321 since the birth of Christ. Only the church remains from the original monastery complex. The vestibule with the dome was additionally built several decades later. This vestibule was ruined during Turkish assaults in 1379-1383, when the dome was lost in fire, as well as a rich collection of manuscripts. The vestibule is believed to have been restored in 1383 by Bishop Simeon of Gracanica.

http://www.brynmawr.edu/Acads/Cities/wld/01005/01005a.jpg

http://8900.dk/kfor6/pics/graca2.jpg

http://www.teslasociety.com/gracanica.jpg

http://www.kosovo.com/fot04_y.jpg

PEC PATRIARCHY NEAR CITY OF PEC

The Monastery of the Patriarchate of Pec is located at the very entrance of the Rugova gorge near Pec. The complex of the Pec churches is the spiritual seat and mausoleum of Serbian archbishops and patriarchs. The temple of the Holy Apostles was built by Archbishop Arsenije I in the third decade of the 13th century. He was also responsible for the painting of the church around 1260. Archbishop Nikodim built the temple of St. Dimitrije next to the northern side of the church of Holy Apostles between 1321 and 1324, while Archbishop Danilo II built the churches dedicated to Virgin Odigitrija and St. Nikola on its southern side. He also built the monumental parvis in the shape of a magnificent open porch in front of the western facades of the churches of St. Dimitrije, Holy Apostles and Holy Virgin Odigitrija. At the time of Patriarch Makarije, the elegant openings with dual arcades were walled up. An entire history of the styles of medieval wall painting can be seen on the walls of the Pec churches. The church of the Holy Apostles was also decorated around 1300, then around 1350 and 1375 and twice in the 17th century. The church of St. Dimitrije was painted for the first time at the time of Patriarch Joakinije, around 1345, and the new layer of frescoes was painted by Georgije Mitrofanovic around 1619-1620. The church of Holy Virgin Odigitrija was painted before 1337, while its parvis was painted in the 14th and 16th centuries. The church of St. Nikola was painted by painter Radul in 1673/1674.

http://www.teslasociety.com/pec2.jpg

http://www.teslasociety.com/pec.jpg

http://www.uputstva.co.yu/manastiri/eparhije/raska/patrijarsija/Pecksa%20patrijarsija%20ulaz%20.jpg

http://www.uputstva.co.yu/manastiri/eparhije/raska/patrijarsija/Pecksa%20patrijarsija%20u.jpg

http://www.uputstva.co.yu/manastiri/eparhije/raska/patrijarsija/pecMV.jpg

http://www.uputstva.co.yu/manastiri/eparhije/raska/patrijarsija/priprata/ppat.jpg

http://www.uputstva.co.yu/manastiri/eparhije/raska/patrijarsija/priprata/ulaz%20u%20svet%20apostole.jpg

http://www.uputstva.co.yu/manastiri/eparhije/raska/patrijarsija/priprata/prip.jpg

http://www.uputstva.co.yu/manastiri/eparhije/raska/patrijarsija/apostoli/kivot%20save2.jpg

http://www.uputstva.co.yu/manastiri/eparhije/raska/patrijarsija/apostoli/sv%20apos.jpg

http://www.uputstva.co.yu/manastiri/eparhije/raska/patrijarsija/apostoli/sv%20apostoli.jpg

http://www.uputstva.co.yu/manastiri/eparhije/raska/patrijarsija/svdimitrije/svdimitrije.jpg

BOGORODICA LJEVISKA IN PRIZREN

Bogorodica Ljeviska Cathedral is the main official diocesan church of Prizren Orthodox Serb Bishops and is considered by Orthodox Serbs as a pride of the royal city of Prizren. After the war in Kosovo 1998-1999 the Cathedral remains locked under the protection of German troops. Kosovo Albanians have made many attepts to desecrate this holy place and on one occasion it was only thanks to German troops that a total destruction of this medieval cathedral by explosives was prevented. With its sublime architecture and fresco art it remains a living witness of the centuries old Serb Christian Orthodox presence in the city of Prizren.The present church is King Milutin's endowment (built 1306/7)

http://www.kosovo.com/ljeviska_ext.jpg

http://www.kosovo.com/bljevis.jpg

(22.3.2004.) church nowdays burned by albanian people in kosovo

http://www.mitropolija.cg.yu/aktuelno/img/Bogorodica%20Ljeviska%202.jpg

http://www.mitropolija.cg.yu/aktuelno/img/Crkva%20Sv.Djordja.jpg


VISOKI DECANI (MONASTERY COMPLEX)

Visoki Decani Monastery is situated in the western part of the Yugoslav Province of Kosovo and Metohia. It was built between1327 and 1335 by the Serbian medieval king St. Stephen of Decani and was dedicated to the Ascension of the Lord. The monastery is settled in the picturesque valley of the Bistrica river surrounded by the mountains and forests of the Prokletije mountain range It is the largest and best preserved medieval monastery in Serbia. During its turbulent history the Monastery was an important spiritual centre with developed artistic and intellectual activities. Although the monastery buildings suffered damage from the Turkish occupation, the church has been completely preserved with beautiful 14th century fresco paintings. Today a young brotherhood of 30 brethren lives in the monastery continuing the centuries old tradition of the past. The brotherhood has developed various activities: wood carving, icon painting, book publishing and is also active in the missionary work. The beautiful monastic services are served according to the typicon of Mount Athos..

http://www.strugar.co.yu/slike2/0220.jpg

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/images/decani/tomb_sm.jpg

http://www.terrorwhy.kg.co.yu/images/decani/decani.jpg

http://www.uputstva.co.yu/manastiri/eparhije/raska/decani/Manastir%20Decani%201327-1335.jpg

http://www.uputstva.co.yu/manastiri/eparhije/raska/decani/Manastir%20Decani%201327-1335%202.jpg

http://www.uputstva.co.yu/manastiri/eparhije/raska/decani/Manastir%20Decani%201327-1335%20detalj%204.jpg

http://www.uputstva.co.yu/manastiri/eparhije/raska/decani/Manastir%20Decani%201327-1335%20detalj%208.jpg

http://www.uputstva.co.yu/manastiri/eparhije/raska/decani/Manastir%20Decani%201327-1335%20detalj%205.jpg

http://www.uputstva.co.yu/manastiri/eparhije/raska/decani/Manastir%20Decani%201327-1335%20detalj%203.jpg

http://www.uputstva.co.yu/manastiri/eparhije/raska/decani/decani5.jpg

http://www.uputstva.co.yu/manastiri/eparhije/raska/decani/ikonostas.jpg

http://www.uputstva.co.yu/manastiri/eparhije/raska/decani/decani4.jpg

^ Beautiful Byzantine architecture. ;) My favorite is the monastery in Pec, it has a very...appropriate...atmosphere.

Nice churches, thanks, but sad that the future is not so bright for them ;)

^ They'll be fine, Jimm. It's a tragedy that they were not better protected. The UN forces did not expect a backlash from the Albanians at all, especially not in the last 12 months.

SiCG and the rest of the former Yugoslavia, with several international organizations/investors, recently signed a declaration to rebuild, protect, and preserve their cultural heritage.

Over the next 10 years (tentative) in BiH more than 600 ancient mosques will be rebuilt, dozens of Catholic churches, and 11 Serbian Orthodox ones. I didn't read stats for SiCG structures, I didn't know I'd be talking about it.

But I'm certain Kosovo's churches are included, I'm just not sure which.

The world won't allow Kosovar Albanians to destroy Serbians and their heritage any more than they allowed Serbian nationalists to destroy to Kosovar Albanians and theirs.

Watch and see; regardless of what happens to Kosovo in the end, these churches will stand.

Nice churches, thanks, but sad that the future is not so bright for them ;)

i really don't know what to think about your "winking" .... :|

if we can not preserve all those churces it would be good to move them to other sites (if albanianas behave like they do)

http://www.spc.org.yu/Vesti-2004/03/prizren-albanka-v.jpg
An Albanian girl taking out something out from the ruins of the St. George Cathedral in Prizren

and some others NO COMMENT

http://www.terrorwhy.kg.co.yu/images/bastina/spomenici_v.jpg

http://opf.nedlinux.com/img/lesokico.jpg

http://www.kosovo.com/skm254.jpg

http://www.kosovo.com/dcimusutiste7.jpg

http://www.kosovo.com/dcisuvareka2.jpg

http://www.kosovo.com/dcidjakovica0.jpg

http://www.kosovo.com/slovinje4.jpg

http://www.civpol.org/Pictures/bombed-church.jpg

http://www.spc.org.yu/Vesti-2004/03/mitrovica-v.jpg

http://www.spc.org.yu/Vesti-2004/03/georgije/georgije1-v.jpg

http://www.spc.org.yu/Vesti-2004/03/georgije/georgije5-v.jpg

http://www.spc.org.yu/Vesti-2004/03/arhangeli/arhangeli-1-v.jpg

http://www.spc.org.yu/Vesti-2004/03/arhangeli/arhangeli-4-v.jpg



and so on...............

It is a horrible thing that they destroyed those churches.

So is this, a few months earlier: http://www.setimes.com/cocoon/setimes/xhtml/en_GB/document/setimes/newsbriefs/2003/07/030724-IVAN-001

I hope the animals on both sides will fuck off and let the decent people get on with their lives. :)

It is a horrible thing that they destroyed those churches.

So is this, a few months earlier: http://www.setimes.com/cocoon/setimes/xhtml/en_GB/document/setimes/newsbriefs/2003/07/030724-IVAN-001

I hope the animals on both sides will fuck off and let the decent people get on with their lives. :)


and how about this :


1,201 PERSONS KILLED SINCE DEPLOYMENT OF KFOR IN KOSOVO - SERBS AND MONTENEGRINS SUFFER HIGHEST CASUALTIES
Since the deployment of KFOR and UNMIK in Kosovo and Metohija on June 10, 1999 to August 9 of this year, Albanian terrorists have carried out 6,535 attacks, resulting in the deaths of 1,201 persons, the wounding of 1,328 persons and the abduction of 1,146 persons, reports the Serbian ministry of internal affairs.

BBC, Belgrade August 20, 2003

Since the deployment of KFOR and UNMIK in Kosovo and Metohija on June 10, 1999 to August 9 of this year, Albanian terrorists have carried out 6,535 attacks, resulting in the deaths of 1,201 persons, the wounding of 1,328 persons and the abduction of 1,146 persons, reports the Serbian ministry of internal affairs.

Of the total number of attacks, 6,468 were directed against civilians (5,932 against Serbs and Montenegrins, 201 against Albanians and 335 against members of other ethnicities), 57 against Serbian police (members of the ministry of internal affairs) and 10 against members of the Serbia-Montenegro (formerly Yugoslav) Army.

In these attacks 1,173 civilians, 24 Serbian policemen and four members of the Army were killed, while 15 policemen were wounded. Of the total number of abducted persons, 1,107 are civilians, 29 are members of the Serbian police and 10 are members of the Army.

Among the 1,173 civilians killed by Albanian terrorists, the great majority (991) are Serbs and Montenegrins. The number of Albanians killed is 109 and the number of members of other ethnicities killed is 73.

Out of the total of 1,108 abducted civilians, 960 are Serbs and Montenegrins, 73 are Albanians and 74 are members of other ethnicities. The fate of 846 persons remains unknown; 160 have been killed; 12 managed to escape (nine Serbs and three persons of other ethnicities), and 89 civilians have been released, according to information of the Serbian police (MUP).

The fate of 15 abducted policemen and nine members of the Army also remains unknown. Six of the abducted policemen have been killed, six have been released, and two managed to escape from their abductors, Albanian terrorists.


PEOPLE DO COMPARE THIS : BLACK ON WHITE...SIMPLE AND CLEAR

Kosovo Polje town, April 2000
http://www.kosovo.com/esit01.jpg

Kosovo Polje town, September 2000
http://www.kosovo.com/esit02.jpg

One of burrial sites at Dragodan (near Pristina) with bodies of Serbs killed by UCK after the end of the war. Hundreds of Serb bodies were temporarily burried by local authoritiesin several locations around Kosovo during the second half of 1999. to be exhumed and identified later. Serb human rights organizations have evidence for at least 847 killed and 1154 missing Serbs since June 12, 1999 and the deployment of KFOR/UNMIK. More than one third of pre-war Serb population (240.000) fleed Kosovo in front of KLA terror which was more or less tolerated by peacekeepers. Almost ten times smaller than the Albanian community Kosovo Serbs were proportionally affected more after the war, in the KFOR/UNMIK presence, than Kosovo Albanians during the war period under the MIlosevic regime.


.................

NATO - KFOR - UNMIK
WHERE ARE 1.300 SERBS
Hundreds of friends and relatives of some 1,300 Serbs who have disappeared in Kosovo since 1998, hold pictures of their loved ones at the rally on the main square in Belgrade, Saturday Aug. 30 2003. Marking the International Day of the Disappeared, the group holds the banner demanding from the NATO (news - web sites)-led Kosovo Force and U.N. officials, who run the current international protectorate in Kosovo, to reveal what happened to the missing people. The banner reads: 'NATO-KFOR-UNMIK, where are 1300 Serbs.' (AP Photo/Mikica Petrovic)

PICTURE CENSORED

Do you have to post this?
I'll check this out and reopen it if needed

^ Beautiful Byzantine architecture. ;) My favorite is the monastery in Pec, it has a very...appropriate...atmosphere.
I was just going to say the same thing - Byzantine Architecture. :)

It is a horrible thing that they destroyed those churches.

So is this, a few months earlier: http://www.setimes.com/cocoon/setimes/xhtml/en_GB/document/setimes/newsbriefs/2003/07/030724-IVAN-001

I hope the animals on both sides will fuck off and let the decent people get on with their lives. :)
It's a shame that such the such beautiful architecture and history is being destroyed. :(

okay, the thread seems alright, just for the pic, you'll need to edit it out

Sergionni, mind editing that graphic picture out, or at least write a warning. We have some pretty young people on this forum, and also people eating - like me. :)

...

RE: The graphic post.

I won't get into a pissing contest with you about who killed more, or less, Sergionni. The victims, on both sides, don't deserve that. Kosovo wasn't my war, and I don't have the same right to discuss it as I do the war in BiH. That said, you know as well as I do how many died, and on which side - even conservative Serbian government estimates show a vast difference between the two.

It's a tragedy that the UN wasn't able or willing to protect the Serbs of Kosovo; though it shouldn't come as any surprise given what they allowed to happen in Srebrenica and Zepa. Even less than all-out massacres, like the sieges of Vukovar, Sarajevo, Dubrovnik, Bihac, etc, etc, etc...should never have been allowed in a civilized world.

Civilized people should not allow it, support it - and certainly should never do it.

There is a special place in heaven reserved for many Croats, Bosniaks, Serbs, and Kosovar Albanians who died so needlessly. And I promise - whether we are united on earth or not - they are. And they're yelling at all of us.

^hey hey hey
all of us? What did I do? :D
anyway, it's a nice thread, however, when I think about it, it's better suited in the main page.
Also, I doubt the war stories are a good idea to add, even if it is to show their demise.
You know it might be seen as provocation, so it's best to edit that whole thing out.
thanks

@ sarajka

who knows what you really thing, yet the way you write sounds "politically correct" . some people do appreciate that, but pointing out your previous post it is quite easy to perceive your real attitude :)

Can we drop the politics and discuss what architecture in Kosovo, which the thread was created for?

^ Provided he doesn't come back with proof that all East Europeans are Serbs (See the EaskSky Cafe Thread...:D) consider it dropped.

^ Provided he doesn't come back with proof that all East Europeans are Serbs (See the EaskSky Cafe Thread...:D) consider it dropped.
Well, that falls under everything other than discussing architecture in Kosovo, so I'm sure we won't get into that again, will we? :D

^ Lets hope, though I have this quality for bringing out the worst in...certain people. :D

In any event...I'm glad I saw the pictures. I truly do love the Pec monastery.

@ sarajka

who knows what you really thing, yet the way you write sounds "politically correct" . some people do appreciate that, but pointing out your previous post it is quite easy to perceive your real attitude :)

Ona bre ne vrijedi ni jedan post, znamo sta misle clanovi AIO!

Majevcan

Ona bre ne vrijedi ni jedan post, znamo sta misle clanovi AIO!

Majevcan

pa dobro ja sam dosao malo na forum posle duzeg vremena pa ne poznajem sve ove "nove" clanove. ranije je bas bilo fino i mirno, a ovih koliko vidim 4-5 novih bas loze i prave se fini. uzas. ali neva veze ;).

Very nice Byzantine architecture. We have simmiliar churches is Voskopoja, in Korca. They will probably join the world historical heritage of UNESCO. I am tlaking about the Byzantine architecture in the thread "Albanian Christian Heritage".

That said, I have the impression that this thread is also a little bit provocative, or at least, for how hard are other people trying to make it different, the starter is insisting way too much to make it other then a descent discussion on architecture. I am far from being the guy who will bring a bunch of the usual nationalistic crap to these forums as they would make my stay here unpleasent. Please mind the context you are using words that refer to a specific nationality. I don't think the Kosova cities thread was closed so that you can play the smart ass and start a new thread completely dedicated to the nonsense discussion that were going on there.

I am very much interested in the Byzantine architecture in the Balkans, but please let that be architecture. There are plenty of other forums on the net that are ultranationalistic friendly, so I suggest you to google, find one, register and say whatever you like. As long as concerning these forums i would really appreciate if you could offer more pictures of architecture around Serbia and Montenegro if you can. I don't hang around these forums to read bullshit.

Applogies for being harsh but this got way over what I can handle politely.

Thnx for udnerstanding :cheers:

pa dobro ja sam dosao malo na forum posle duzeg vremena pa ne poznajem sve ove "nove" clanove. ranije je bas bilo fino i mirno, a ovih koliko vidim 4-5 novih bas loze i prave se fini. uzas. ali neva veze ;).

Damn right she does. ;) And you talk like you're surprised there is a Bosniak woman on this forum, and you don't like her - Isn't that a conscious decision you made long before meeting me?

As for the rest - wait and see. :) If the Central Europe forum is created, you'll have EE all to yourselves... and most of the current EE forumers can't wait to leave you with it.

what did he say?

^ Nothing important - just two little boys patting each other on the back, convincing themselves that the world is how they see it. :)

^ Not at all. Anyone that doesn't agree with you or that mentions anything Serbian is automatically considered a nationalist by your standards, yet in every second post of yours you have to go on with some rant about Serbs, Cetniks, destroyed mosques, the siege of Sarajevo by Serbs, etc. I think he has every right to talk about the destruction of the churches as well without being labelled a nationalist. Sergionni simply showed that there are remnants of Serbian culture and architecture remaining in Kosovo and he has a right to do that. While others have learned to ignore you on certain occasions because you have already been here for quite some time, sergionni has recently returned after being away for quite a long time and is unfamiliar with your style of posting. Let him get used to you and he'll start to ignore your posts as well.

BTW I have yet to see a truly nationalistic post (not ones that you claim are nationalistic) from sergionni. In fact he's constantly criticizing modern architecture in Serbia and blaming it on Serbs. Srdjan is very outspoken and is often angered quickly, but I definitely don't think he's a nationalist.

^ As I said, once we get a Central European Forum - we'll see who the real problem is. :)

^ As I said, once we get a Central European Forum - we'll see who the real problem is. :)
Have fun. I'm not saying that you always directly cause the problem, but you can't simply label every single Serb a nationalist because they care about Serbian churches in Kosovo.

I care about them too, but I'm far from being a nationalist.

^ This is where I don't understand you, PyRo. It has nothing to do with that, check the previous threads - I can't remember the name of it...Prizren, I think...I posted all this shit myself. It's not about that.

The same way you look at my posts and you think you can see double meanings and blah blah blah whatever...is the same way I look at theirs. ;)

What does it mean: Serbian architecture :)? You have/Had your own national stye :)?

LOL pa Bosna i nije bas u CE. Ni po kojoj teoriji
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Europe

Alpine countries
(west to east)
* Switzerland
* Germany
* Liechtenstein
* Austria
* Slovenia


Visegrád group
(north to south
* Poland
* Czech Republic
* Slovakia
* Hungary

Culturally Central-European
* Belarus (western parts)
* Croatia (Slavonia and the northwest part of the country)
* Lithuania
* Romania (Transylvania and Banat)
* Serbia (Vojvodina)
* Ukraine (Galicia)

So defined, the following countries are entirely included:

* Poland
* Czech Republic
* Slovakia
* Hungary
* Slovenia

Usually excluded are:

* the Baltic countries
* Russian Orthodox and Muslim lands
* the Balkans

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/europe/c_europe_pol96.jpg

^ Mila, that picture has no credibility at all. I'm not saying Bosnia is not in CE, but that picture is just screwed up!

Sarajka, sergionni, and PyRoMaNiAc...you guys should go to group therapy together. :)

Bosnia, is always considerd as Eastern Europe...along with Croatia, Serbia, and Macedonia..I don't know why you people think otherwise.

^ I heard you the first time (Sergei, but you deleted your double post, so now it looks like I'm being rude, it was a joke). :D

I know, I don't believe that map either. Just showing there's no one way to look at it. There's hundreds of different versions of CE, EE, WE, etc.

I know, Yugoboy...but we've got, more or less, a whole country boycotting EE, a *** giving out forumers private information, pubescent nationalists, etc, etc, etc...

I just want a break from "All East Europeans are Serbs"...(to steal the Gori line) "Serbian tree, Serbian forest, Serbian leg, Serbian bird, Serbian fish, Serbian breakdance..."

I just feel overwhelmed by all the misinformation on this forum - and I can't keep up with disproving, or expanding on it all.

It'd be nice to have a section where they post all that and we don't have to see it.

^ Not at all. Anyone that doesn't agree with you or that mentions anything Serbian is automatically considered a nationalist by your standards, yet in every second post of yours you have to go on with some rant about Serbs, Cetniks, destroyed mosques, the siege of Sarajevo by Serbs, etc. I think he has every right to talk about the destruction of the churches as well without being labelled a nationalist. Sergionni simply showed that there are remnants of Serbian culture and architecture remaining in Kosovo and he has a right to do that. While others have learned to ignore you on certain occasions because you have already been here for quite some time, sergionni has recently returned after being away for quite a long time and is unfamiliar with your style of posting. Let him get used to you and he'll start to ignore your posts as well.

BTW I have yet to see a truly nationalistic post (not ones that you claim are nationalistic) from sergionni. In fact he's constantly criticizing modern architecture in Serbia and blaming it on Serbs. Srdjan is very outspoken and is often angered quickly, but I definitely don't think he's a nationalist.

Of course he bares the right to talk about the destruction of churches, but he has to be carefull to context things are put in. There was a conflict in Kosovo. Innocent people died both ways. It is cynical to show photos of the burnt churches and start arguing like "look what Albanians do, see how bad they are". I am Albanian and i feel deeply offended by the context this is showed. That does not mean I am childish though, so if you guys want to have this kind of threads running, you are free to have them. I am outta this thread,

:cheers:

Për Shqiptarët në forum do doja që mos të reagonit në këtë temë. Eshtë shumë qesharake dhe tërë viktimat në Kosovë dhe Bosnje nuk e meritojnë një mungesë respekti të këtij niveli dhe unë nuk do dëshiroja që Shqiptarët të bëheshin pjesë e kësaj. Faleminderit.

yes but when you take a look at Europe central parts are definately not around Bosnia. Geographical center is in Lithuania.

Who really cares? Isnt this getting pointless?

This thread should be closed....again :sleepy: ... and I think some of the Forumers should be banned.. but i'm not the Moderetor here. :D

I do not understand why they cannot just create a central Europe forum and allow people who beleive their country is part of central Europe to do as they please and allow people who are part of Easter Europe to do as they please...

But what's wrong with how it is... I think they just need to Bann a few people. and problem solved. :)

Shouldnt Western Balkan countries count as South-Eastern European?

^ This is where I don't understand you, PyRo. It has nothing to do with that, check the previous threads - I can't remember the name of it...Prizren, I think...I posted all this shit myself. It's not about that.

The same way you look at my posts and you think you can see double meanings and blah blah blah whatever...is the same way I look at theirs. ;)
You know what, when you make threads about things such as Kosovo, you should expect that people will be angry from both sides and that things are going to come out bad. This is still a recent event and is still unresolved. People will of course be passionate and say things that should actually be avoided on forums. I'm not a nationalist, but oftentimes I feel the need to say something in threads about Kosovo because I have that right (as long as I don't offend someone, which I don't). In the same way, you can expect other Serbs to respond to things like this that are not nationalistic but feel the same way about the issue. I've noticed that it appears that Serbs have no right to post their opinions, ideas, or feelings about anything, otherwise they will be labelled nationalists.

I'm just angered that everyone on this forum constantly has to blame everything on the Serbs. Sergei gets elected a mod, and it's because it's a Serb-dominated sub-forum :|. Having two Serb mods is considered to make this a Serb-dominated forum. SinCity gets banned for comments that were more than just offensive and for constantly trolling Serbian threads, and then he gets unbanned and he goes around here again labelling Serbs as monsters. The Poles are constantly after the Serbs and in the CE Request thread they're always saying how they want to get away from the Serbs and the EE forum.

You suggest that the Serb nationalists are to blame for all the problems on these forums, yet for problems to occur there must be nationalists on both sides. For instance, when Alberto (Bosniak) and Sincity (Croat plus all his aliases) were on these forums, it was literally hell. What is happening now is absolutely nothing compared to how it was then. At that time you would never have the opinion that this was actually an architecture forum. Then they got banned but some Serb nationalists remained and the forums were relatively calm. On numerous occasions they came back with their aliases and the problems again started, and their banning caused relative peace again. Right now, I still wouldn't label what's happening a major problem, especially comparing it to last summer, but I think that it takes both sides for problems to occur, not just Serb nationalists.

But what's wrong with how it is... I think they just need to Bann a few people. and problem solved. :)

You really think if I'm gone the Croats will come back? The Poles and Ukrainians will want to stay?

IMO every country which is under, Croatia and Hungary should be considered as southern europe.

^ I heard you the first time (Sergei, but you deleted your double post, so now it looks like I'm being rude, it was a joke). :D

I know, I don't believe that map either. Just showing there's no one way to look at it. There's hundreds of different versions of CE, EE, WE, etc.

I know, Yugoboy...but we've got, more or less, a whole country boycotting EE, a *** giving out forumers private information, pubescent nationalists, etc, etc, etc...

I just want a break from "All East Europeans are Serbs"...(to steal the Gori line) "Serbian tree, Serbian forest, Serbian leg, Serbian bird, Serbian fish, Serbian breakdance..."

I just feel overwhelmed by all the misinformation on this forum - and I can't keep up with disproving, or expanding on it all.

It'd be nice to have a section where they post all that and we don't have to see it.

So what you mean is... make a section for Serbs, and one for everyone else? :sleepy:

You really think if I'm gone the Croats will come back? The Poles and Ukrainians will want to stay?
I am not saying I want you Banned.:)

I did not want to get involved in this in the first place, but couldn't resist. Now I am not saying that you should be banned, because for the most part you brang really a lot of fun, interesting topics, and and beautiful pictures... but I am saying there are some people that constantly Provoke... even though I feal you have in some Threads...

You know what, when you make threads about things such as Kosovo, you should expect that people will be angry from both sides and that things are going to come out bad. This is still a recent event and is still unresolved. People will of course be passionate and say things that should actually be avoided on forums. I'm not a nationalist, but oftentimes I feel the need to say something in threads about Kosovo because I have that right (as long as I don't offend someone, which I don't). In the same way, you can expect other Serbs to respond to things like this that are not nationalistic but feel the same way about the issue. I've noticed that it appears that Serbs have no right to post their opinions, ideas, or feelings about anything, otherwise they will be labelled nationalists.

I'm just angered that everyone on this forum constantly has to blame everything on the Serbs. Sergei gets elected a mod, and it's because it's a Serb-dominated sub-forum :|. Having two Serb mods is considered to make this a Serb-dominated forum. SinCity gets banned for comments that were more than just offensive and for constantly trolling Serbian threads, and then he gets unbanned and he goes around here again labelling Serbs as monsters. The Poles are constantly after the Serbs and in the CE Request thread they're always saying how they want to get away from the Serbs and the EE forum.

You suggest that the Serb nationalists are to blame for all the problems on these forums, yet for problems to occur there must be nationalists on both sides. For instance, when Alberto (Bosniak) and Sincity (Croat plus all his aliases) were on these forums, it was literally hell. What is happening now is absolutely nothing compared to how it was then. At that time you would never have the opinion that this was actually an architecture forum. Then they got banned but some Serb nationalists remained and the forums were relatively calm. On numerous occasions they came back with their aliases and the problems again started, and their banning caused relative peace again. Right now, I still wouldn't label what's happening a major problem, especially comparing it to last summer, but I think that it takes both sides for problems to occur, not just Serb nationalists.

I absolutely agree. It always takes two or three in the Balkans. ;)

I must say, though, that I find the nationalism on this forum is fairly healthy, for the most part - among Ukrainians, Poles, etc. No other country's nationalists are starting threads with offensive or misleading, or blatantly wrong, information - consistently - except one.

lol they should just have a forum for each country

Personally i think people are overacting a bit here.
We just need to relax , smoke some weed if possible:D and get back on discussing architecture.;)

So what you mean is... make a section for Serbs, and one for everyone else? :sleepy:

I don't know what I mean anymore, Yugoboy. :(

Maybe a rule banning all OT?

RE "I provoke in some threads": No need to walk lightly around me, Yugoboy, I respect your opinion. I think I have been provocative - the only reason I don't like saying I "provoke" is because I'm trying to...get them, end it, finish it. The perfect response, to me, would be none. Just trying to...stop the misinformation, defend myself, etc.

smoke some weed if possible:D

Does Albania have good weed?

Does Albania have good weed?

Lower Central Albania grows some ecxellent weed:D
When you get high you love everybody:D:D

I don't know what I mean anymore, Yugoboy. :(

Maybe a rule banning all OT?

RE "I provoke in some threads": No need to walk lightly around me, Yugoboy, I respect your opinion. I think I have been provocative - the only reason I don't like saying I "provoke" is because I'm trying to...get them, end it, finish it. The perfect response, to me, would be none. Just trying to...stop the misinformation, defend myself, etc.

I don't know, I have just read a few posts in a couple of these threads... and it's always you aruing with someone.. about the most pointless things. Maybe it isn't just you, or it's about something you feal is important... but i don't have time to read the whole dam thread... I just think there should be less threads like this one(Overly Political).. Kosovo also is such a hard topic for me, and it's hard for me not to sound natuionalistic so i just don't post anything in these Kosovo threads.

BTW, I watched all of Gori Vatra the other day.. Great Movie! :D

When you get high you love everybody:D:D

I do not know what you are talking about

:cheers:

I don't know, I have just read a few posts in a couple of these threads... and it's always you aruing with someone.. about the most pointless things. Maybe it isn't just you, or it's about something you feal is important... but i don't have time to read the whole dam thread... I just think there should be less threads like this one(Overly Political).. Kosovo also is such a hard topic for me, and it's hard for me not to sound natuionalistic so i just don't post anything in these Kosovo threads.

This is exactly what I'm complaining about. I can't see something that I know is wrong, or even simply misleading, and leave it be. I can't do it. If I have a problem with one of my friends, a day doesn't go by. I'll kick their fucking door down if I have to, we're going to talk about it. That's my problem.

I can't read "look what animals Albanians are, what they did to our churches" - and not think: "And what about what you did to their men, women, and children?"

I know most would never believe this, but I hope you might know me well enough to see it's at least possible. Right now, this forum is leaning towards Serbian nationalists. There are very few threads I've seen that are claiming all East Europeans are descendant from Bosniaks, Croatian land covers most of the Balkans, Albanian mosques are being destroyed by savage Orthodox villagers, etc. If those threads existed, I would have to refute them also.

Edit: My husband heard me groaning and made me explain everything, and he's on your side, Yugoboy. "Mila, you're not INTERPOL. Jesus..." :runaway: I told him: You think the government will work slow to end a Bosniak/Croat marraige? I could divorce you before the moon comes up. :D

Hey Mila how come you are never on MSN?

^^ Randomness saves the day! :D

I do not know what you are talking about

:cheers:

..... meaning that when you are high you dont feel like hating people.
:cheers:

I can't read "look what animals Albanians are, what they did to our churches" - and not think: "And what about what you did to their men, women, and children

So this is what serbs write about us in their language eh?
Well , seeing that little kid piss in that burned down church sure would get one mad but i am sure he had a strong reason to do what he did.

This is exactly what I'm complaining about. I can't see something that I know is wrong, or even simply misleading, and leave it be. I can't do it. If I have a problem with one of my friends, a day doesn't go by. I'll kick their fucking door down if I have to, we're going to talk about it. That's my problem.

I totally agree Mila. I will be uprfront with you when you get out of line don't worry. ;)

I can't read "look what animals Albanians are, what they did to our churches" - and not think: "And what about what you did to their men, women, and children?"

I know most would never believe this, but I hope you might know me well enough to see it's at least possible. Right now, this forum is leaning towards Serbian nationalists. There are very few threads I've seen that are claiming all East Europeans are descendant from Bosniaks, Croatian land covers most of the Balkans, Albanian mosques are being destroyed by savage Orthodox villagers, etc. If those threads existed, I would have to refute them also.


Hmm, My attitude towards that is Fuck them... and what they think, since they obviously don't know what they are talking about.. But I guess you are different. The Moderators should step in and say something when a person starts to say " look at what those Albanians/Serbians/Bosnians ect. Did" I mean it shouldnt turn out to be a huge thing.. but it does.

Edit: My husband heard me groaning and made me explain everything, and he's on your side, Yugoboy. "Mila, you're not INTERPOL. Jesus..." :runaway: I told him: You think the government will work slow to end a Bosniak/Croat marraige? I could divorce you before the moon comes up. :D

:okay: Hahhaha. Now I think we can stop talking about all this Political crap. ;)

So this is what serbs write about us in their language eh?
Well , seeing that little kid piss in that burned down church sure would get one mad but i am sure he had a strong reason to do what he did.
He never said that.

PyRo: Apparently I'm not the only one who saw it:

It is cynical to show photos of the burnt churches and start arguing like "look what Albanians do, see how bad they are". I am Albanian and i feel deeply offended by the context this is showed. That does not mean I am childish though, so if you guys want to have this kind of threads running, you are free to have them. I am outta this thread...

Yugoboy: I'm going to try. :) I'll need a sponge stick to clamp my jaw down on, though. And maybe some straps for my ankles and wrists.

Please, please, please notice while I'm trying to do this that (unless they stop posting bullshit to disprove me) these types of threads will still develop without me.

Okay...out of this thread. :) No really...going...really I am... :runaway:

It's a tragedy that they were not better protected. The UN forces ....


......should have hired the A-Team, and if they were to expansive, they also could have called me, I do the same job for half the price! :gunz: :D




Wasn´t really funny, eh? :dunno:

PyRo: Apparently I'm not the only one who saw it:



Yugoboy: I'm going to try. :) I'll need a sponge stick to clamp my jaw down on, though. And maybe some straps for my ankles and wrists.

Please, please, please notice while I'm trying to do this that (unless they stop posting bullshit to disprove me) these types of threads will still develop without me.

Okay...out of this thread. :) No really...going...really I am... :runaway:

Good Mila, Now it's hard at the begining but it gets better in time. ;) Remember what a great man once said, "We have spilt an ocean of blood for fraternity and unity of our nations - and we shall not allow anyone to touch this or destroy it from inside, to break this fraternity and unity..." use that with you when you think of SSC, and see bullshit people Provoking. ;)

http://www.kosovo.com/tinitial.gif

NOVO BRDO

One of the biggest Serbian medieval cities, and by the number of inhabitants one of the biggest cities in inner Balkans . It is situated on the top of so called “Small Mountain” 40 kilometers south-east of Pristina.
The city was founded in the beginning of 14th century in order to protect present to protect mining urban agglomerations . This town was the richest town in Serbian kingdom due to which many fortresses in the neighbourhood were built.
The town consists of tree parts. Upper fort and inner city witch is protected by polygonal fort which was fortified with 6 strong rectangular towers. Second unit is bigger lower town situated under western side op citadella. that is central city area protected by long wall and 2 towers. That was the area were the riches families lived. The rest of the town was not protected by city wals and was spreading forward o western side.
Town had 7 serbian orthodox churches of which the most important was st. Nicolas church. There were 2 catholic churches built in town for traders that were coming from Venetian republic. After Turks invaded Serbian kingdom and conquered this town all churches were transformed into mosques except one.

http://www.kosovo.com/nbrdo.jpg
city walls

http://www.kosovo.com/novobrd1.jpg
remains of city chatedral

http://www.serbia-tourism.org/srpski/kultura/img/brd_01.jpg
remains of st. nicolas church

http://www.serbia-tourism.org/srpski/kultura/img/brd_02.jpg
view toward citadella (upper town)

http://www.serbia-tourism.org/srpski/kultura/img/brd_03.jpg
the LAW BOUT MINES and NOVO BRDO STATUT written by Despot Stefan Lazarevic's (prince stefan lazarevic of serbia 1377-1427)

^ I heard you the first time (Sergei, but you deleted your double post, so now it looks like I'm being rude, it was a joke). :D

I know, I don't believe that map either. Just showing there's no one way to look at it. There's hundreds of different versions of CE, EE, WE, etc.

I know, Yugoboy...but we've got, more or less, a whole country boycotting EE, a *** giving out forumers private information, pubescent nationalists, etc, etc, etc...

I just want a break from "All East Europeans are Serbs"...(to steal the Gori line) "Serbian tree, Serbian forest, Serbian leg, Serbian bird, Serbian fish, Serbian breakdance..."

I just feel overwhelmed by all the misinformation on this forum - and I can't keep up with disproving, or expanding on it all.

It'd be nice to have a section where they post all that and we don't have to see it.
Mila, trolls in EE will be trolls in CE. What makes you think people will stop making these rediculous statements? They will just go to the CE forum.

Everyone has the rights to view and post in every forum, so I don't think this is a valid reason to create a new forum.

Thank you, sergionni for ignoring these random arguments, and getting back on topic. :)

Ask yourself Sergei, which people are making a mess here?

The biggest problem in this forum comes when Serbs,Bosniaks or Croats are involved. The problems are often "Bosniaks VS Serbs" or "Croats VS Serbs", if we seperated , this problem with ugly threads and various BS would stop, I can guarentee that. ( PS. Serbs, Bosniaks and Croats are all giulty)

If not a CE forum why not another subforum for some countries, the Austrian forum has only 1000posts , I am sure one of the strong represented nations here easily can post 5 times more then what a austrian forum has done.

Aristotle, I am against that totally! It is not like all serbs, Bosniaks and Croats are fighting..It's just a few people. Like Sergei said everyone has a right to go to any part of SCC which they want. Making a Bosnia and Herzegovina or Serbia and Montenegro subforum won't change anything!

Anyways, sorry Back to the Topic! :D

Ask yourself Sergei, which people are making a mess here?

The biggest problem in this forum comes when Serbs,Bosniaks or Croats are involved. The problems are often "Bosniaks VS Serbs" or "Croats VS Serbs", if we seperated , this problem with ugly threads and various BS would stop, I can guarentee that. ( PS. Serbs, Bosniaks and Croats are all giulty)

If not a CE forum why not another subforum for some countries, the Austrian forum has only 1000posts , I am sure one of the strong represented nations here easily can post 5 times more then what a austrian forum has done.
I think it's unfair to generalize people, which is what you're doing to Serbs.
Trolls come in many different shapes, and sizes and nationalities.

So, I don't think the problem is with one particular nationality only. It's the trolls within those nationalities that cause problems. And as I said before, nothing can prevent these trolls crossing the border to the CE forum. They will simply troll there.

I think it's unfair to generalize people, which is what you're doing to Serbs.
Trolls come in many different shapes, and sizes and nationalities.

So, I don't think the problem is with one particular nationality only. It's the trolls within those nationalities that cause problems. And as I said before, nothing can prevent these trolls crossing the border to the CE forum. They will simply troll there.

If you read my post, you can see I wrote that all three parts are giulty in trolling and ruining the EE forum, I never said Serbs are more giulty of ruining the EE forum. What I meant with "Bosniaks vs Serbs" and "Croats vs Serbs" was that their aren't problems beetween Bosniaks and croats, and therefor making a CE forum the problems would end (Croatia and Bosnia in CE, and Serbia in EE). Please don't make it like am a nationalist or generalizing.

Sergionni is pushing for an Albanian VS Serbs dabate and it is not working and Bra inspector will soon push people to believe that God was Serbian etc.

"Thank" you Sergei for thanking Sergionni for starting this. It is fun indeed. Thank you God for giving me the patience to be calm and laugh at evey kind stupid situations. Look, I am Albanian. In every post I have tried to show respect to all people here, and I still intend to do that, because I belive in what I say. All of you can believe in whatever you want and start these kind of discussion that fuel your national pride which is a good thing if used to develop your nations. Now, would you mind not use your national pride to offend my identity as an Albanian, please? Did I ever do that? No. So please bare some respect, cause I do.

This is also intended to every post that tries to create Albanian, Serbian or any other stereotypes jsut for the sake of satisfying prides and leading to these discussions.

Sergionni is pushing for an Albanian VS Serbs dabate and it is not working and Bra inspector will soon push people to believe that God was Serbian etc.

"Thank" you Sergei for thanking Sergionni for starting this. It is fun indeed. Thank you God for giving me the patience to be calm and laugh at evey kind stupid situations. Look, I am Albanian. In every post I have tried to show respect to all people here, and I still intend to do that, because I belive in what I say. All of you can believe in whatever you want and start these kind of discussion that fuel your national pride which is a good thing if used to develop your nations. Now, would you mind not use your national pride to offend my identity as an Albanian, please? Did I ever do that? No. So please bare some respect, cause I do.

This is also intended to every post that tries to create Albanian, Serbian or any other stereotypes jsut for the sake of satisfying prides and leading to these discussions.
I didn't thank him for starting it. I thanked him for getting back on topic, when he posted the pictures and information about that city.

If there is something offensive there, that I didn't see because I'm not from the region and don't know much about it, please inform me.

If there is something offensive there, that I didn't see because I'm not from the region and don't know much about it, please inform me.

there isnt. i just want to present serbian cultural and architectural herritage in kosovo (sence that was a nucleus of serbian medieval kingdom it is expected that there are plenty of towns, churches, ruins there...) what is offencive about that? please tell me?

there isnt. i just want to present serbian cultural and architectural herritage in kosovo (sence that was a nucleus of serbian medieval kingdom it is expected that there are plenty of towns, churches, ruins there...) what is offencive about that? please tell me?
You misunderstood me, I find nothing wrong with your last post, that's why I thanked you for getting back on topic, unlike the rest.

But apparently, IlliricumSacrum found it offensive, so I asked him what was so offensive about it.

waiting for final revitalisation and reconstruction....

BANJSKA MONASTERY
Holy Archdeacon Stephen

http://www.kosovo.com/banjska.jpg

http://www.kosovo.com/banjska2.jpg

http://www.kosovo.com/banjska3.jpg

http://www.kc.gov.yu/slike_novosti/banjska/09.JPG

http://www.kc.gov.yu/slike_novosti/banjska/08.JPG

St. Milutin, the King of Serbia and the founder of the Monastery
fresco in Gracanica Monastery
http://www.kosovo.com/gracanica011_y.jpg

Banjska Monastery is located near the present day village of Banjska in Zvecan municipality, north of Kosovska Mitrovica. Banjska is the pious endowment of the Holy Serbian King Milutin, who had it built during the period from 1312 to 1316. After his death the King's holy relics were preserved in the church of Banjska Monastery. Because it was a royal sepulcher, this church was far more richly decorated than the other 40 odd pious endowments built by Milutin.

The monastery church dedicated to the Holy Archdeacon Stefan was built in the same location where the seat of the Banjska diocese existed in the 13th century, during the rule of Milutin's father, King Uros I. During Milutin's reign the monastery was restored and became the fourth most important monastery in the Serbian Archdiocese. After receiving the blessing of Archbishop Sava III (1309-1316) and his mother, Queen Jelena, Milutin entrusted the building of the shrine to his spiritual father, Abbot Danilo (who was later appointed archbishop), who arrived from Chilander at this time. When the Holy King Milutin passed away in his summer palace in Nerodimlje (near Urosevac) in the year 1321, Archbishop Danilo II (1324-1337) transferred his body to Banjska where he was buried with full royal honors. Queen Theodora, the mother of the Emperor Dusan, was later buried in the northern chapel of the church. After the Battle of Kosovo in 1389 the monks transferred the relics of King Milutin to Trepca; later, in 1445, they were transferred to Sofia, Bulgaria, where they still rest today in the church of St. Alexander Nevsky.

During the 17th century the Turks transformed the church of the already dilapidated Banjska Monastery into a mosque. The monastery suffered great destruction in 1689 when the Turkish and Austrian armies alternately used it as a fortress during the course of the Austrian-Turkish War. At the end of the 17th century the Turks dug up the marble floor of the church in quest of the gold of Archbishop Danilo. The first more serious investigations began immediately after the liberation of Kosovo and Metohija in 1912. In 1915 two rings, one silver and one gold, were found in the grave of Queen Theodora. These rings are considered to be the most beautiful examples of Serbian medieval jewelry. In 1938 after the end of the investigation and the digging up of the foundations of the surrounding residence halls, the church was partially restored and placed under a temporary roof.

The church of Banjska Monastery is a part of the Raska church school. It was built using the plan of the church of the Theodokos in Studenica as a model.

The base of the church consists of a single nave building with an apse. Chapels are located to the right and the left sides of the main nave. On the west side there is a parvis. the facade is done in a combination of tricolored marble. The church was also richly decorated with stone sculpture. The most significant preserved sample, a relief sculpture of the Theodokos with Christ that decorated the main portal, is today located in the nearby Sokolica Monastery. Only fragments bearing the likenesses of the saints in arch medallions under the main cupola from rich frescoes done during the period from 1317 to 1321 have been preserved.

Phase I of the conceptual plan for the reconstruction of Banjska Monastery foresees the building of the monastery residence hall to house the brethren. Later phases foresee the restoration of other monastery buildings, as well as the church of the Holy Archdeacon Stefan.

sergionni have you been to kosova?

Here is Central Euorpe:

http://www.polisci.ucla.edu/faculty/trachtenberg/courses/AUSTRIA.GIF

Central Europe is the lands that once composed Austria-Hungary. All of these nations have the same history, similar architecture and lifestyles. Bosnia was only “liberated” or conquered”, your call, from the sick man of Europe in 1878.

That map doesnt make sense at all
Italy is not Central Europe
It is Southern Europe and you would have to be blind not to figure that out:runaway:
Western Balkans should not be included as Central European
They are South-Eastern Europe

Ps:Are you guys trying to come up with some kinda fictitious facts in order to have balkan members post in perhaps a future Central Europe forum?;)

sergionni have you been to kosova?
I sure he did not...Such a place does not exist. But there is a region of Serbia called Kosovo, which is very beautiful and worth a visit.
:)

Very nice Byzantine architecture. We have simmiliar churches is Voskopoja, in Korca. They will probably join the world historical heritage of UNESCO. I am tlaking about the Byzantine architecture in the thread "Albanian Christian Heritage".

That said, I have the impression that this thread is also a little bit provocative, or at least, for how hard are other people trying to make it different, the starter is insisting way too much to make it other then a descent discussion on architecture. I am far from being the guy who will bring a bunch of the usual nationalistic crap to these forums as they would make my stay here unpleasent. Please mind the context you are using words that refer to a specific nationality. I don't think the Kosova cities thread was closed so that you can play the smart ass and start a new thread completely dedicated to the nonsense discussion that were going on there.

I am very much interested in the Byzantine architecture in the Balkans, but please let that be architecture. There are plenty of other forums on the net that are ultranationalistic friendly, so I suggest you to google, find one, register and say whatever you like. As long as concerning these forums i would really appreciate if you could offer more pictures of architecture around Serbia and Montenegro if you can. I don't hang around these forums to read bullshit.

Applogies for being harsh but this got way over what I can handle politely.

Thnx for udnerstanding :cheers:

yes beautiful Byzantyne architecture built by Serbian masters....
Much better than the Corbusier-influenced brutalist archiecture employed by serbian architects later on... :)

Thanks for the pictures Sergionni. Those are very unique and beautiful churches in Kosovo. Serbia, and especially the international community should punish the barbarians that destroyed these jewels of European culture. It cant believe that some can be that barbaric. We should all stand against these barbaric acts... :mad:

Sergioni thnx for posting the pictures.

Can u please post other pictures of medieval churches in Serbia and Monenegro? I am very interested in this kind architecture. If you don't mind a suggestion, open e new thread and post pics there, include the pics from Kosovo if you want, but please mind the context of your comments.

Sergei, if you check how this started you will see the reasons to my reaction. The porblem is when you congratulate Sergionni for ignoring posts that came as a consequence of his posts. There is no reason to continue with this.

I sure he did not...Such a place does not exist. But there is a region of Serbia called Kosovo, which is very beautiful and worth a visit.

I am not answering to you. This is what I classify as a disorder starter. Probably 3-4 pages will be spent arguing on statements like this and this thread will probably close when people with a naitonality other then Serbian will start arguing harsh on these provocatice posts. At that time the mods will say the thread got off topic and it needs to be closed. My problem is that this thread has started off topic, got in topic, got off topic and so on. The only problem is that I, as an Albanian, don't like to react harsh to these posts, and that seems to you good enough reason to let this go on.

Sergionni please open a new thread with pictures of churches, I like a lot to see these pics. Please save me from reading all of thit while enjoying hte photos.

Please try to avoid politics, the discussion is only about that what is in title.

Someone mentioned it earlier. Is there such a thing as Serbian Architecture? If so, certanly not these churches. They can't be any more Byzantine. Churches like that are not exclussive to Serbia and certainly found in many parts of the Balkans.

On a more important note, while I do not agree with any kind of unecessary violence and absolutely not that against religious property, I think human loss is far more important, at least in my book, that any kind of property damage. And if Serbs need to call anyone barbarians, like someone in the previous posts, they should look at their previous rulers and point the fingers there. Of course there is no excuses for damaging church property and the people responsible should be punished to the full extent of the law, but by posting these posts here you are making it look as it was the worst crime in the war, forgeting that Serbs were the ones that are responsible for the mass-murder of millions of people, start of at least 3 wars in the Balkans in the last decade alone, destruction on thousands of homes, displacement of millions of people, worst crimes against humanity and other attrocities that are too many to mention. You can not post such photographs and expect anyone to be civil, there are hundreeds and thousands of photographs and documents showing the genocide the Serbs have done to the Balkan nations, but I have a feeling there is no need for those as everyone by now knows what troublemakers you used to be.
I have nothing but respect for a genuine Serb, willing to let go of the past and willing to bridge our differences, but I see nothing but provocations with this pictures and I deffinitely think they do not help our relations at all. And these relationships again, as many times before, put to the test by a Serb. Patience my friend is a virtue, but even that is running thin....

theres nothing wrong with the pictures. its serbian history. just stop with the comments(those barbarians) directed at certain groups. keep it civil, dont include politics.

Someone mentioned it earlier. Is there such a thing as Serbian Architecture? If so, certanly not these churches. They can't be any more Byzantine. Churches like that are not exclussive to Serbia and certainly found in many parts of the Balkans.

On a more important note, while I do not agree with any kind of unecessary violence and absolutely not that against religious property, I think human loss is far more important, at least in my book, that any kind of property damage. And if Serbs need to call anyone barbarians, like someone in the previous posts, they should look at their previous rulers and point the fingers there. Of course there is no excuses for damaging church property and the people responsible should be punished to the full extent of the law, but by posting these posts here you are making it look as it was the worst crime in the war, forgeting that Serbs were the ones that are responsible for the mass-murder of millions of people, start of at least 3 wars in the Balkans in the last decade alone, destruction on thousands of homes, displacement of millions of people, worst crimes against humanity and other attrocities that are too many to mention. You can not post such photographs and expect anyone to be civil, there are hundreeds and thousands of photographs and documents showing the genocide the Serbs have done to the Balkan nations, but I have a feeling there is no need for those as everyone by now knows what troublemakers you used to be.
I have nothing but respect for a genuine Serb, willing to let go of the past and willing to bridge our differences, but I see nothing but provocations with this pictures and I deffinitely think they do not help our relations at all. And these relationships again, as many times before, put to the test by a Serb. Patience my friend is a virtue, but even that is running thin....

some people, unlike you have studied architecture and history of arts, and i guess they know better . so far i have studied about serbian medieval architecture from various sources including some PHD thesis from authors from these countries:


serbia & montenegro
croatia
greece
russia
england
armenia
georgia

all of them mention serbian national style which has developed from a branch of Byzantine balkan sub styles. the base of serbian national style is sacral architecture.

so please lets leave it to SCIENTISTS to prove (in fact they have proved all), and let go these empty talks....

sergionni have you been to kosova?

i was in kosovo i metohija 3 times. first time in 1996, then 1998, then in 2003.

Isn't all slavic culture based on byzantine culture. i know that the slavic languages use cyrrelic like grrek because greek was the language usaed in byzantine empire and the slvas were fascinated by the byzantine culture and religion. The byzantine emeprors sent missionaries to bring christianity to the peopl in the north of byzantine empire. These missionaries helped them develop a written language of their own using the cyrrelic leter of the greek. Slavic culture is primarly based on first by nordic culture when they mixed very long ago and then by byzantine culture. So all easten orthodox churches in all of eastern europe are all byzantine churches and there are no serbian,russian, greek or albanian churches. The architecths from each coutnry may change some things but the designs were all very similair. They are all byzantine churches or orthodox churches period.

Isn't all slavic culture based on byzantine culture. i know that the slavic languages use cyrrelic like grrek because greek was the language usaed in byzantine empire and the slvas were fascinated by the byzantine culture and religion. The byzantine emeprors sent missionaries to bring christianity to the peopl in the north of byzantine empire. These missionaries helped them develop a written language of their own using the cyrrelic leter of the greek. Slavic culture is primarly based on first by nordic culture when they mixed very long ago and then by byzantine culture. So all easten orthodox churches in all of eastern europe are all byzantine churches and there are no serbian,russian, greek or albanian churches. The architecths from each coutnry may change some things but the designs were all very similair. They are all byzantine churches or orthodox churches period.

Well, it is Serbian architecture inspired by the Byzantine. Likewise, the brutalist architecture employed by many eastern European architects is inspired by LeCorbusier (frenchman...). Still, every country has put it's own twist to it (ie serbian commieblocks are different from the ones built in Russia.)

Someone mentioned it earlier. Is there such a thing as Serbian Architecture? If so, certanly not these churches. They can't be any more Byzantine. Churches like that are not exclussive to Serbia and certainly found in many parts of the Balkans.

On a more important note, while I do not agree with any kind of unecessary violence and absolutely not that against religious property, I think human loss is far more important, at least in my book, that any kind of property damage. And if Serbs need to call anyone barbarians, like someone in the previous posts, they should look at their previous rulers and point the fingers there. Of course there is no excuses for damaging church property and the people responsible should be punished to the full extent of the law, but by posting these posts here you are making it look as it was the worst crime in the war, forgeting that Serbs were the ones that are responsible for the mass-murder of millions of people, start of at least 3 wars in the Balkans in the last decade alone, destruction on thousands of homes, displacement of millions of people, worst crimes against humanity and other attrocities that are too many to mention. You can not post such photographs and expect anyone to be civil, there are hundreeds and thousands of photographs and documents showing the genocide the Serbs have done to the Balkan nations, but I have a feeling there is no need for those as everyone by now knows what troublemakers you used to be.
I have nothing but respect for a genuine Serb, willing to let go of the past and willing to bridge our differences, but I see nothing but provocations with this pictures and I deffinitely think they do not help our relations at all. And these relationships again, as many times before, put to the test by a Serb. Patience my friend is a virtue, but even that is running thin....


Your post is way more provacative than the ones posted by others, including myself, previously. In fact, the details provided in the above-quoted message are devoid of facts (serbs killed millions...really?). In fact, your post is simply reflecting of your personal opinion, ie. based on value-judgement. However, I must admit that I agree with some of your message, such as when you state that provocations do not lead to reconciliation. In fact, reconciliation is only possible in an environment where all beligerant parties open-up and take responsability for the crimes that they committed. As such, I would expect open-minded individuals to recognize that the destruction of those churches and shrines is a CRIME, a barbaric act, as oppsed to deviate from the facts by claiming that these churches are not Serbian but byzantyne. Some are doing everything (in a subtle way...) to rewrite history and undermine the Serbian culture, bit by bit. That, I consider as a major provocation.

Your post is way more provacative than the ones posted by others, including myself, previously. In fact, the details provided in the above-quoted message are devoid of facts (serbs killed millions...really?). In fact, your post is simply reflecting of your personal opinion, ie. based on value-judgement. However, I must admit that I agree with some of your message, such as when you state that provocations do not lead to reconciliation. In fact, reconciliation is only possible in an environment where all beligerant parties open-up and take responsability for the crimes that they committed. As such, I would expect open-minded individuals to recognize that the destruction of those churches and shrines is a CRIME, a barbaric act, as oppsed to deviate from the facts by claiming that these churches are not Serbian but byzantyne. Some are doing everything (in a subtle way...) to rewrite history and undermine the Serbian culture, bit by bit. That, I consider as a major provocation.

Spare me the victim's speach, will you please. The only reason I responded the way I did, is because this thread deviated from the original topic, to what I can asume, was the real intended topic; That of portraying Albanians as barbaric. That in my opinion has opened this debate, and there is no more room for provocations since, we have already been provoked and we are responding to it. And as I mentioned anyone that considers destruction of churches a barbarity should then consider the loss of human life, the displacement of millions and the desturction of private property and all other monstruosities commited by the Serbs far worse than a "Barbaric" act. In the pool of guilt Serbs are swiming neck deep and are hardly the right ones to point fingers. These churches would still be standing today, if the will of the people in the regions of ex-Yougoslavia would have been respected.
Although we should agree to disagree on many points, I second your opinion that anyone, be he Albanian or Serb, who engages in such acts that really hinder the freedoms of other people, should be punished accordingly and the appropriate government bodies should take steps that no such acts ever happen again.
Frankly I could not care less wheather you call this architecture Serb or Byzantine, at the end of the day it is a piece of history to all humans and represents the inguinity of its builders and designers. As such should be treated with care and respect and I would welcome and additional pictures of these beauties, as long as the thread contains no further acusations.

Spare me the victim's speach, will you please. The only reason I responded the way I did, is because this thread deviated from the original topic, to what I can asume, was the real intended topic; That of portraying Albanians as barbaric. That in my opinion has opened this debate, and there is no more room for provocations since, we have already been provoked and we are responding to it. And as I mentioned anyone that considers destruction of churches a barbarity should then consider the loss of human life, the displacement of millions and the desturction of private property and all other monstruosities commited by the Serbs far worse than a "Barbaric" act. In the pool of guilt Serbs are swiming neck deep and are hardly the right ones to point fingers. These churches would still be standing today, if the will of the people in the regions of ex-Yougoslavia would have been respected.
Although we should agree to disagree on many points, I second your opinion that anyone, be he Albanian or Serb, who engages in such acts that really hinder the freedoms of other people, should be punished accordingly and the appropriate government bodies should take steps that no such acts ever happen again.
Frankly I could not care less wheather you call this architecture Serb or Byzantine, at the end of the day it is a piece of history to all humans and represents the inguinity of its builders and designers. As such should be treated with care and respect and I would welcome and additional pictures of these beauties, as long as the thread contains no further acusations.


How about you learn about the conflict before opening your ignorant mouth? The number of people to die in the Kosovo conflict and NATO occupation is 3105, with almost half or more being Serbs.

How about you learn about the conflict before opening your ignorant mouth? The number of people to die in the Kosovo conflict and NATO occupation is 3105, with almost half or more being Serbs.

Est. Number of Kosovar Albanians expelled from Kosovo by Serbs, March to June 1999: 863,000

Est. Number of Kosovar Albanians internally displaced within Kosovo, as of mid-May 1999: 590,000

Over 90% of the pop. You still flying on the Milo's rocket Maksym?

you should know that they are coming back , and sergionni where did you visit

Est. Number of Kosovar Albanians expelled from Kosovo by Serbs, March to June 1999: 863,000

Est. Number of Kosovar Albanians internally displaced within Kosovo, as of mid-May 1999: 590,000

Over 90% of the pop. You still flying on the Milo's rocket Maksym?

Don't bother, R2T. When you prove their claims from the 1990s are not accurate, then they bring up WWII. When you prove their claims from WWII are not accurate, then they bring up 1389. It's an endless cycle back through past until you find an example of Serbian victimhood, then that is used - no matter how distant - to justify anything that has ever happened since. :) Don't fall for it as long as I have, don't try to enlighten them - just give up, and lobby for a CE forum. :);):D

Personally i would not visit a CE forum simply because we are South-Eastern europeans.
What am i gonna talk about in CE forum?
My interest is only in the Balkans where i come from.

Don't bother, R2T. When you prove their claims from the 1990s are not accurate, then they bring up WWII. When you prove their claims from WWII are not accurate, then they bring up 1389. It's an endless cycle back through past until you find an example of Serbian victimhood, then that is used - no matter how distant - to justify anything that has ever happened since. :) Don't fall for it as long as I have, don't try to enlighten them - just give up, and lobby for a CE forum. :);):D

Thank you for your advice Sarajka. I originally was not attempting to bring figures and stats, just to clarify this whole "barbaric" theme brought here, however this Serbian Vortex draw me in. I still believe that what is gonne is water under the bridge, and should be left alone, and I am still willing to respect anywone worthy of it. These divisions EE, CE etc etc I don;t believe help in bridging the differences, which is really important in making our lives easier. I will continue to take part in any forums be they EE or CE as long as somehow the thread helps resolve our differences.

all the best

Est. Number of Kosovar Albanians expelled from Kosovo by Serbs, March to June 1999: 863,000

Est. Number of Kosovar Albanians internally displaced within Kosovo, as of mid-May 1999: 590,000

Over 90% of the pop. You still flying on the Milo's rocket Maksym?

Even though your numbers are grossly exaggerated the dates you give are very telling. The number of refuges from the NATO bombing campaign cannot be absolute, but your timeline is. You clearly admit, if you realize it or not, the refuge crisis started in March when the NATO bombing campaign of Yugoslavia commenced.

http://www.imcnews.com/belgrade/kosovo_attack.html
http://www.iacenter.org/warcrime/sladjana.htm
http://hrw.org/reports/2000/nato/

The only exact number of refuges or displaced people that can verified is the 350 000 non-Albanians cleansed since the NATO occupation began. The number of Albanian refuges is a gross exaggeration, much like the 100 000 dead Albanians. As post war investigations have proven, the number of Albanians killed during the war was exaggerated by 10-15 times. Why would a rational being not conclude the same could be said about refuges? The American and NATO imperialists lied about Iraq and Kosovo since they have ulterior motives.

Didn`t i said not to talk about politic ?

http://www.authentichistory.com/images/1900s/prohibition/closed_sign.jpg