flybe are reducing their flights from 4 a day to 2 a day as of January.
Air Canada is ceasing operations between Canada and Glasgow and is reviewing the Manchester link. They (Air Canada) are unlikely to resume it's Manchester service in the spring.

I think the YYZ-MAN service will be with British Midland (BD) and will be via Newark, NJ. (EWR). BD are partners with Air Canada and the banckrupt United Airlines in the Star Alliance group.

Sloyne, very interesting, but in the wrong thread.

Not deducing anything, just pointing out that with no passengers on one of the buses, and I'd imagine virtually no people in Manchester aware that it exists, I'd be stunned if it continues for long. Even knowing that almost 800,000 of LJLA passengers are from the Greater Manchester Area? I would think that with numbers like this and given time and advertisement, this would be a very well patronised service. But, only time will tell.

I know a lot of people from Manchester use Livrepool airport.

However, there is no advertising (see my comments about no one being aware) so no one is using it.

I honestly think a bus service between Lime Street and the airport would be much more benificial (if there isn't one already).

Sloyne, very interesting, but in the wrong thread.
I think it marries very well with your post about FlyBe. Airlines work on "yeilds" and Exeter/Southampton/Liverpool just doesn't do. As with Air Canada's YYZ-MAN service, the yields on this "mothers & Daughters" route are less than stellar, most of the pax flying on 'ABC' service and with almost no chance of "interlinng" at Manchester, the service was, sooner or later, bound to be pulled. Not unlike the FlyBe Liverpool-Southampton-Exeter service.

ok, fair enough, think there are also most liekly many other routes to be pulled and replaced at many airports, it seems the way these days, the trick is to ensure than you have more new starters than leavers, as it were.
At present most airports are.

the trick is to ensure than you have more new starters than leavers, as it were. At present most airports are. And at the rate of growth of air travel in Europe it won't be long before Europe is rivalling North America in passenger miles flown. Thanks, in no small part, to LoCo's.

I know a lot of people from Manchester use Livrepool airport.

However, there is no advertising (see my comments about no one being aware) so no one is using it.

I honestly think a bus service between Lime Street and the airport would be much more benificial (if there isn't one already).

There has been a direct bus link from / to LJLA and Lime Street for some time and plus some.

http://www.fola.org.uk/travel.html

Arriva "Airlink" Express Coach Service No: 500 (Airport to Liverpool City Centre and vice versa):

The 500 Express Coach service to Liverpool city centre awaits departure from outside the terminal.

An express coach service connecting the airport with the city centre, serving the main hotels, railway, coach and bus stations operates every half hour. Fare £2 single, children £1.

The first service leaves the airport at 0515, calls at all the stops set out below including Lime Street Station at 0557, Paradise Street Bus Station at 0605 and arrives back at the airport at 0635. The last service leaves the airport at 0015, calls at all stops including Lime Street Station at 0057, Paradise Street Bus Station at 0105 and arrives back at the airport at 0135.

All services call at the following city centre bus stops at the minutes past each hour as shown: Minutes past
each hour Bus Stop Journey time
to airport (mins)
15 & 45 Departs Liverpool John Lennon Airport terminal
17 & 47 Estuary Commerce Park - * see note
42 & 12 Chapel Street, Rumford Street 53
44 & 14 Tithebarn Street, Mercury Court (Stop PC) 51
46 & 16 Tithebarn Street, The Brunswick Bar (Stop PG) 49
48 & 18 Skelhorne Street (for Lime Street Station) 47
53 & 23 Norton Street (for National Express Coach Station) 42
00 & 30 Lime Street (near Empire Theatre) 35
02 & 32 Queens Square Bus Station (outside Royal Court Theatre) 33
04 & 34 Dale Street, Moorfields (Stop KC for Merseyrail) 31
06 & 36 Castle Street, Cook Street (Stop MD) 29
08 & 38 Paradise Street Bus Station (Stand 8) 27
10 & 40 James Street (Stop AG for Merseyrail) 25

33 & 03 Estuary Commerce Park 2 * see note
35 & 05 Arrives at Liverpool John Lennon Airport terminal

*Journeys operate via the Estuary Commerce Park (ECP) on Mondays to Fridays only between the following hours. From airport via ECP to city centre - first service leaves at 0615. Last service from airport via ECP leaves at 1945. From the city centre the first service arrives at the ECP at 0633 and the last at 1933.

Further information can be obtained from Arriva Customer Services on 08701 20 10 88 or access their website from our Links page.

Arriva "Airlink" Express Coach Service No: 700 (Airport to Manchester Piccadilly and vice versa):

*The 700 Express Coach limited stop service to Manchester at one of the airport's bus stands outside the terminal *

An express coach service operates every hour between the airport and Manchester Piccadilly railway station and vice versa. From the airport the first service is at 0530 and the last at 0030. From Manchester the first service is at 0400 and the last at 2300. Fares are £5 (10 euros) for adults with half fare for children. Intermediate stops are at Burtonwood Services on the M62, Eccles, Salford and Sackville Street (Manchester).

Further information can be obtained from Arriva Customer Services on 08701 20 10 88 or access their website from our Links page.

Bus:

ARRIVA buses operate the following services under the "Airlink" banner:

80A: Airport - Estuary Business Park (daytime only) - Garston (for Merseyrail) - Penny Lane - Paradise Street Bus Station, City Centre (and vice versa). Operates every 15 minutes during the day and every 30 minutes in the evening.

81A: Airport - Hunts Cross railway station (for Merseyrail and trains to Warrington, Manchester and beyond) - Broad Green - Queens Drive - Bootle New Strand (and vice versa). Operates every 30 minutes during the day and evening.

82A: Runcorn - Widnes - Hale - Airport - Garston - Aigburth Vale - Paradise Street Bus Station, City Centre (and vice versa). Operates every 30 minutes during the day.

89: Airport - Hunts Cross (for Merseyrail and trains to Warrington, Manchester and beyond) - Huyton - Prescot - Whiston Hospital - St Helens. Operates every 20 minutes during the day and half hourly in the evenings and Sundays.


The City with an Airport.

The problem with AC at MAN is that they get very good passenger figures in the height of summer, and presumably yields (because AC is not cheap), but they have to contend with competition from Air Transat, Zoom, Mytavel and Thomas Cook. All of which, in my experience, are more affordable.

Sorry, this thread is about LJLA.

Liverpool airport doesn't need more marketing in the Manchester area. We're only too aware of it and use it as readily as we use MAN. For example, LPL now has four daily flights to the Barcelona/Gerona/Reus area, as opposed to one from MAN. This winter, it also has the North West's only services to Nice and Rome.

A lot of the Manchester traffic will surely be accommodated via Allerton and it's airport services?

At present if you travel from Manchester, then Hunts Cross then take a bus or taxi is the best option.

The current 500 bus service from the station is not good enough, still stops to much and traffic is killing.. the Tram line 3 might pull some weight off.. if the tram ever gets off the ground.

When they get a NY air link they likely would make some changes..

and yes, Man-Hunts cross is definately best.. but I wish merseyrail would just make a brench of the Southport-Hunts cross line and hook to the airport..

57 destinations from Jla next year
thats still a pretty low amount when you consider airports like gatwick etc have over 90 airlines flying to hundreds of destinations. lpl needs to attract more professional airlines aswell as budget ones

thats still a pretty low amount when you consider airports like gatwick etc have over 90 airlines flying to hundreds of destinations. lpl needs to attract more professional airlines aswell as budget ones

Difficult to pull them out of MAN though, at the momant they can draw low cost airlines because of fast plane turnaround and lower costs.

to get higher class, they would need to raise prize so they can build more and better things (skybridges etc) but then the low cost airlines get pissed...

Air Canada is ceasing operations between Canada and Glasgow and is reviewing the Manchester link. They (Air Canada) are unlikely to resume it's Manchester service in the spring.

I think the YYZ-MAN service will be with British Midland (BD) and will be via Newark, NJ. (EWR). BD are partners with Air Canada and the banckrupt United Airlines in the Star Alliance group.
british midland is bmi not bd

Difficult to pull them out of MAN though, at the momant they can draw low cost airlines because of fast plane turnaround and lower costs.

to get higher class, they would need to raise prize so they can build more and better things (skybridges etc) but then the low cost airlines get pissed...
even just attracting in more charter airlines would be a start though.

Difficult to pull them out of MAN though, at the momant they can draw low cost airlines because of fast plane turnaround and lower costs.

to get higher class, they would need to raise prize so they can build more and better things (skybridges etc) but then the low cost airlines get pissed...

I'm sure it can be worked out. Remember, Manchester has locos also. I guess they could provide certain areas where things like skybridges and the such are featured and for these slots up the price. This could be featured in any future expansion.

Any new routes in the pipeline for next year or any new destinations known?

British Midland is BD, the "BD" is its ICAO code, eg. BD1748, EZY1837, BY7392 etc

12 million people live within a 90-minute drive of the airport with 1.4 million people in Liverpool itself and the airport is easily accessible from the M56, M57 and M62. from LJLA website, i take it 1.4million ppl is the whole mersyside area?

Don't know if you ppl no but the JLA - NYC route took a step in the right direction at a coference in Copenhagen and airlines from Asia are lookig at potential routes to lJLA:)

12 million people live within a 90-minute drive of the airport with 1.4 million people in Liverpool itself and the airport is easily accessible from the M56, M57 and M62. from LJLA website, i take it 1.4million ppl is the whole mersyside area?



Yes Merseyside is 1.4 Mill.

and i'm not much looking at conferences for NYC-LPL link, Mersey PArtnership seems to be heavally involved, just as with the Fly-be thing. you keep seeing mersey partnership in the papers with it...



Comming back on airport costs, the sugestion to make part Skybridge and part at later expantion sounds nice, but no one will invest in such a thing until is known that airlines will come. basically this means, nothing will hapone till either an airline forces it by saying, Do it or we won't come. OR someone (peel?) decides to invest withoud certainty...

Surely Skybridges and departure gates can be built quickly and cheaply, the real issues for the airport on long haul are check in, baggage handling and reclaim and the runway.

If someone want to put Asian or trans Atlantic flights on I'd expect the air bridges and gates would be knocked up overnight. Sort of.

I have heard skybridges are very expensive, more than a million pounds each I read, but I can't remember where I read it or how much they cost, just an old wives tale really, but I'm sure they aren't cheap. Anyway, I dont agree that they are necessary, not in a small airport like Liverpool that has a moderate climate. It's not like people are walking long distances in freezing or boiling weather. Anyway, airports with airbridges often don't use them, last time I got a (BA) longhaul flight from Heathrow we were bussed to the plane and walked up stairs. At Gatwick (on shorthaul) its frequent to have to get a bus and walk up the stairs. There is nothing like a moments fresh air after the alienation and claustrophobia of a departure lounge or the plane.

As has been said before, there is the issue of how wheelchair users get onto planes without skybridges. How does that happen currently? I've never seen it done without a skybridge. Do they use lifting equiptment?

If they do it's bollocks, I'll knock a few up for less. I mean what are they, a bit of metal on wheels. I'll even open up a little factory in Garston for welders and stuff.

I think sky bridges are a must if LJLA is to move up to the next level (-oddly, Leeds Bradford has them. And I found that airport to be smaller and scruffier than Liverpool.)

Frail people don't like walking across tarmac in cold weather and going up lots of steps- like my Gran and her dicky hip. It must be a bit annoying for disabled people to have to be carried onto the plane- presumably that is the only option without a bridge.

I agree with Toad. I don't see why they shoud be so expensive- it's basically just a green-house kind of a corridor on stilts.

The last bit, that joins the plane, can be dangerous. I have read about deaths of people standing there when the skybridge has moved and become detached from the plane. If you are in a queue to board the plane, and someone is being slow in front of you, don't stand on that metal bit next to the plane door, just wait on the skybridge itself, leave a gap - and then dash across (or jump if you are not afraid to lose even more dignity) to safety. I will try to find a link to a report of such an incident, as I dont feel I've done the danger of the situation justice here.

Far too long to read, but if anyone is bored, they could read bits of it maybe and report back on what it says. I think it says that it's not safe to have ones wheelchair lifted into a plane, but I've not actually read it, so it might not say that.

http://www.access-board.gov/research/aircraft-boardingchairs/aircraft-boarding.html

Mate, you're even more pathalogically safety conscience than I am. I hate the gap between the bridge and the plane- I hate it when stupid slow people in front of me cause me to have to quickly skip on. I don't like the connecting section on commuter trains either- one time I got trapped in one becuase there were so many people crammed on to the train- all I could think about was what I'd grab onto if the two carriages detached from one another.

Blabs, better safe than sorry.

If you type in "airbridge" and combinations like "death" "accident" "fatality" into Google you get a lot of worrying information. Enough to make you feel happy that LJL eschews them. (Don't they use a different name for them in America, I can't remember what it is, but that would probably yield many thousands more pages on google).

Here is a random one, everyone was lucky and escaped with their lives, it seems. I will search for more, as I'm sure I've read about deaths on these things. They are death traps.

http://www.travelbiz.com.au/articles/9f/0c02179f.asp

My family and I (sound like the Queen), have lost count how many times we've travelled long haul to visit family. I've always thought that skybridges and being bussed to the plane depended on the distance that the plane was from the terminal. A bit of a no brainer that one :)

However, it's just dawned on me that I haven't a clue how disabled people board a plane that is too far away from the terminal to use a skybridge. I've seen them in those beep! beep! machines, ploughing a furrow through the crowded masses in the terminal, heading off to the plane. But how the fuck do they get on the plane? Are they winched up or what?

I think air bridges are getting an unfair rap here. I'm sure there are many failsafes which prevent the airbridge from moving whilst latched onto the aircraft. If I was to design an airbridge (hired by Toadboy to do so of course), I'd enure that whilst the air bridge was locked onto the plane, the manual controls would be disengaged, so the controller can't accidentally knock a gear or something whilst putting his feet up and the airbridge moves off somewhere. I'd be surprised if such a thing doesn't exist. I'm sure all this gets scrutinised at design level anyhow. I've personally never heard of accidents regarding an airbridge moving away. The link Poli provides regards an incident at Sydney where the plane moved away from the air bridge. Therefore, it was the plane, not the air bridge at fault. If steps were used instead, the plane could still have moved as the person at the top was about to step on board, and it'd probably knock out the entire column. You should try not to worry too much about such things. I think it's more likely you'd be killed because of the plane crashing than by an air bridge moving when it shouldn't. Plane crashes make the news anually, air bridge accidents do not.

But how the fuck do they get on the plane? Are they winched up or what?

No idea. I'd never actually thought about it until today. It's a mystery up there with 'when a set of traffic lights have been switched off, what's the first colour each direction shows when they they come back on?', 'why do triangle sandwiches taste better than square ones?' and 'what do people see in Robbie Williams both in a musical sense and a sexual sense?'.

The world has many mysteries. :)

No idea. I'd never actually thought about it until today. It's a mystery up there with 'when a set of traffic lights have been switched off, what's the first colour each direction shows when they they come back on?', 'why do triangle sandwiches taste better than square ones?' and 'what do people see in Robbie Williams both in a musical sense and a sexual sense?'.

The world has many mysteries. :)

Disabled:
the sandwich link came closest.. they are brought up by a service car, ea, same way as the food/drink is brought in. Although manny you see beeing transported through teh terminal do get up the stairs with some help ;).
They of course get priority and boarding hapones after they are seated.

Sky bridges= Expensive and not easy to build into the current terminal design, as far as I know, they are no more dangerous then terminal buildings (see colapse in France... Rare but you never know :)

Why do the disabled get special treatment? What ever happened to equal opportunities?

They get the best parking spaces at supermarkets, they get lifted up to aeroplanes, helped onto trains, and they get to enjoy the benefits of stair lifts.

:runaway:

We can always arrange to break your legs :)

My family and I (sound like the Queen), have lost count how many times we've travelled long haul to visit family. I've always thought that skybridges and being bussed to the plane depended on the distance that the plane was from the terminal. A bit of a no brainer that one :)

However, it's just dawned on me that I haven't a clue how disabled people board a plane that is too far away from the terminal to use a skybridge. I've seen them in those beep! beep! machines, ploughing a furrow through the crowded masses in the terminal, heading off to the plane. But how the fuck do they get on the plane? Are they winched up or what?

Usually either a hefty fireman or as in LJLAs case a special vechichle that connects with the airplane door on hydrodlics :) plus a hefty fireman.

Ambulift
Liverpool Airport has its own Ambulift to automatically lift passengers and wheelchairs up to the aircraft door. This makes for a smooth and efficient boarding/disembarking with passenger inconvenience kept to a minimum.

Depending on the airport, airline and aircraft, a myriad of equipment will be used. Some airports have purpose built equipment, others will use catering truck, plane mates, passengers stairs etc. I have seen a fork lift used at one airport (Dakar, Senegal) which had the pax perched precariously on what looked like a piece of 8x4x1 inch plywood board. If the pax is wheelchair bound but can board from the airbridge he/she will be removed from the chair at the aircraft door and transfered to a narrow chair capable of negoatiating the narrow aisle of the aircraft. Depending on the degree of mobility, quadra or paraplegic, the pax will be strapped into this chair then transfered to and strapped into the seat.

This from todays D.P.


Airline boss backing JLA Nov 10 2005




By Neil Hodgson, Liverpool Echo


RYANAIR chief Michael O'Leary has backed Liverpool John Lennon airport to double in size - and promised to match it.

The boss of the no-frills operator was speaking at last night's inaugural Liverpool Chamber of Commerce annual dinner in the Devonshire House hotel.

He praised Liverpool JLA's expansion and told nearly 400 guests that it mirrored Rya-nair in its own ambitions to double in size, from 35m to 70m passengers: "I believe one

of our partners in that growth will be Liverpool airport.

"Like Ryanair, Liverpool airport is not content to sit on their laurels because they will double in size in the next five years.

"And whenever they expand a terminal we promise we will park an aircraft outside it."


He added: "We ignored Liverpool to our shame for about 10 years.


"I admit, I thought Peel Holdings was mad to buy Liverpool, not because it had a bad history, but it competed with Manchester, which was one of the most successful in the business.


"What they have done has been revolutionary. I told them two years ago it wouldn't bloody work but I have been proved wrong.


"Competition is driving success. Liverpool airport will double in size to 10m passengers in the next five years if the people support the airport and the flights coming into the aiport."

:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Leary basically said Manchester couldn't do what Liverpool did in terms of turning planes around to fit their model.

Either Manchester needs to rebuild terminals and make their taxiways and runways more efficient or Liverpool will win a lot more business.

This from todays D.P.

By Neil Hodgson, Liverpool Echo


RYANAIR chief Michael O'Leary has backed Liverpool John Lennon airport to double in size - and promised to match it.

The boss of the no-frills operator was speaking at last night's inaugural Liverpool Chamber of Commerce annual dinner in the Devonshire House hotel.

He praised Liverpool JLA's expansion and told nearly 400 guests that it mirrored Rya-nair in its own ambitions to double in size, from 35m to 70m passengers: "I believe one [/B]


yes I was at that dinner, he is a great speaker..(and dad for a week now) he also said they are the most punctual airline operating in the UK wich is not entirely true.. but it was true what he said about the number of jobs an airport and airline bring into a region. 1000 per million directly..

About winning a lot of business from MAN, well low cost yes, but for standard airlines there comes a lot more into the equation then just turn around time..

do we went LJLA to just be a low cost airport?

I think there's room for more than just lowcost.

Long haul and holiday charter need to be targetted, would that involve another terminal, a 2nd runway even?

I think there's room for more than just lowcost.

Long haul and holiday charter need to be targetted, would that involve another terminal, a 2nd runway even?


no second runway is needid for a looong time.. Long haul further then NY would need runway extention though.
no other terminal needid, although some things can be done to improve the current one. (Piers)

Low cost longhaul would been perfect for the current setup.. but there are no low cost airlines flying intercontinental..

Still, I agree intercontinental is what they need to aim for.

Are Zoom (fly from Manc to various Canadian destinations) not considered low cost?

If Liverpool fitted airbridges everywhere, I doubt our low cost operators would use them. They take too long to install and retract and add to the turnaround time. I remember getting off a Ryanair 737 at Gatwick in appalling weather and having to walk down steps, despite the stand having an airbridge.

I doubt airbridges are less safe than steps. Steps tend to be steep and slippery when wet or icy. (Remember President Ford tumbling down some aircraft steps?)

I suppose that accidents involving steps or airbridges don't get the attention they deserve as plane crashes are what the public are concerned about. It is the same with rail travel. Up till a few years ago, more people were killed or seriously injured by falling from trains or falling between a train and platform when running after a train than in train crashes - it just didn't get the publicity.

By the way, most accidents involving planes come from low speed collisions with airport equipment - tankers, mobile steps, luggage trolleys etc so airlines are always looking at ways to reduce this risk.

Are 'low cost' and 'budget' the same thing?

Low cost has been transatlantic for donkies, usually battered old planes with scabby crew and a fai chance they'll go bust while you're out shooting moose in Alberta.

Budget is a formulated business model in my understanding, utilising modern aircraft and screwing every available flying minute out of them and it's the model that hasn't/can't be applied to long haul.

Are 'low cost' and 'budget' the same thing?

Low cost has been transatlantic for donkies, usually battered old planes with scabby crew and a fai chance they'll go bust while you're out shooting moose in Alberta.

Budget is a formulated business model in my understanding, utilising modern aircraft and screwing every available flying minute out of them and it's the model that hasn't/can't be applied to long haul.

I thought that the two things were the same although I doubt that Freddy Laker's Skytrain fitted in to the definition of 'low cost' used nowadays.

Low cost refers to the cost to the operator, not necessarily the price paid by the customer that can often be as much as a 'frills' service. It is achieved by maximising aircraft and crew utilisation, dispensing with travel agents, tickets and aircraft meals and using yield management to maximise the revenue from each customer and airports with fast turnaround and low landing fees. Use of new aircraft minimises maintenance costs and aircraft downtime and takes advantage of new low fuel consumption engines.

Low cost operators like Liverpool as it has a simple arrangement that minimises aircraft time on the ground and charges low landing fees, making most of its money from car parking and retail.

Low cost has been transatlantic for donkies, usually battered old planes with scabby crew and a fai chance they'll go bust while you're out shooting moose in Alberta. Wardair, Laker, British Midland, British Caledonian to name a few, have all, at one time or another operated between Canada and the UK.

Low cost, in Canada, refers to operating costs (and usually wages) . A LoCo will contract, and outsource, anything and everything from maintenance to in-flight personel. The yeild per passenger mile flown is a lot less than a full service carrier but so are the LoCo's overheads. It cost more to "gate" a aircraft than it does to park it on a stand off the terminal. Just like a ship will leave a dock and anchor to save money, so is it with aircraft. Also, LoCo's are usually wholly dependent on pax for thier revenue as opposed to Full Servs who also have income from cargo and interlining contracts.

BY flight to Barbados today at 9:20, Thomson will use a 767 i guess, Barbados is at leat 12 hours away so if a 767 will make it that far whats stopping other sceduled long haul flights, using a 767 from hapening, may the future bring happiness:cheers:

If Liverpool fitted airbridges everywhere, I doubt our low cost operators would use them. They take too long to install and retract and add to the turnaround time. I remember getting off a Ryanair 737 at Gatwick in appalling weather and having to walk down steps, despite the stand having an airbridge.

I doubt airbridges are less safe than steps. Steps tend to be steep and slippery when wet or icy. (Remember President Ford tumbling down some aircraft steps?)

I suppose that accidents involving steps or airbridges don't get the attention they deserve as plane crashes are what the public are concerned about. It is the same with rail travel. Up till a few years ago, more people were killed or seriously injured by falling from trains or falling between a train and platform when running after a train than in train crashes - it just didn't get the publicity.

By the way, most accidents involving planes come from low speed collisions with airport equipment - tankers, mobile steps, luggage trolleys etc so airlines are always looking at ways to reduce this risk.
steps are ok for smaller craft like 737s as there is less of a weight shift as the pax disembark.. theyre not suitable for larger aircraft as due to the suspension on the wheels, a large step can form between the steps and the plane as the plane empties making it difficult to step down, especially in some of the wind and rain liverpool gets over the winter. liverpool only really needs a couple of gates to start with

the 3 gates behind the hangar could be a good start, just build a slim seting area alon the back of the hangar and then add 3 gates

I like Madrids T4^^^^^^:laugh:

FFS!! I've just thought to myself 'I've just seen a pic of that terminal, I'll go back through the threads to find it for Westie'. What a mong eh? :D

Lol. one plane there, Liverpools busier than that, i suppose its only just opened

Bunny you don't have to trawl through threads the Madrid T4 is today's banner.

319,000 passengers in January.
35% increase over last January,brilliant. :cheers: :cheers:

January is one of the more quieter months and if that figure was every month then we would get 3828000 pax, that bodes us to get well over 5mil this year

The brains and in depth knowledge in the Liverpool metro area section of this site is just unbeleivable....

Anyone (FOLA members etc..) any idea when the Airport 'Masterplan' is due to be made public?
It keeps getting put back for some reason.
Don't have to give any details away,just a time frame will do.

:cheers: :cheers:

319,000 passengers in January.
35% increase over last January,brilliant. :cheers: :cheers:

Would've been 318,999 without me!

Think you'll find LJLA passing the 500,000 mark on a regular occurance through the summer period. Could'nt get to the FOLA meeting last night but don't think it will be too long before the masterplan is published, case of doting the i's and crossing the t's

Anyone (FOLA members etc..) any idea when the Airport 'Masterplan' is due to be made public?
It keeps getting put back for some reason.
Don't have to give any details away,just a time frame will do.

:cheers: :cheers:

Masterplan has been delayed and it is hoped now to be made public within 4 to six weeks.

Liverpool JL Airport has NEVER had 500,000 in any month. The nearest is came was 35k shy last August.

Masterplan has been delayed and it is hoped now to be made public within 4 to six weeks.

Liverpool JL Airport has NEVER had 500,000 in any month. The nearest is came was 35k shy last August.


Thanks for the info. :cheers: :cheers:

bluesnapper, we've never had 319,000 in january before! The new ryanair services have started to come on stream which will add to the figures. Airport's own estimates are for close to 6m this year. If that's the prediction you need a few months of over 500,000.

New route to Kerry

Ryanair is having a bitch fight with Cork airport over costs.

From April or May, it's reducing its daily service to Cork to x4 weekly. The other 3 days it will fly to Kerry

The route is planned to start 13th June.

Think you'll find LJLA passing the 500,000 mark on a regular occurance through the summer period. Could'nt get to the FOLA meeting last night but don't think it will be too long before the masterplan is published, case of doting the i's and crossing the t's

Thousand apologies, thought I read 'Think you'll find LJLA PASS the 500,000 mark on a regular occurance through the summer period'.

With a good wind the airport will have the 500k from May through to October.

Last years figures of scheduled pax exLPL of 4,095,325 is made up as:

INTERNATIONAL - 3,089,094 up 44% on 2004
DOMESTIC - 1,006,231 up 22% on 2004
NET TOTAL - 4,095,325 up 38% on 2004

No worries bluesnapper, will be interesting to see how the domestic figures for this year stack up with flybe reducing their services. But as long as we continue this upward trend i'll be happy! Who'd of thought we'd be at this level ten years ago!

'Danger' gas levels revealed at JLA Mar 13 2006




By Graham Davies Daily Post Staff


HARMFUL gas levels are "dangerously high" at Liverpool John Lennon Airport (JLA), a report revealed yesterday.

The European Union says nitrogen dioxide (NO2) levels need to stay below 40 micrograms per cubic metre of air.

But readings at JLA exceed this recommendation by up to 50%, the report published by the Chartered Society of Physiotherapy (CSP) showed.

The survey revealed most airports in England were in a similar situation.

Respiratory physiotherapists say the consequences of being exposed to NO2 can be especially severe among people with lung conditions such as asthma, bronchitis and emphysema.




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CSP spokesman Professor Grahame Pope said: "The effects of airport emissions on air quality and public health are of serious concern to physiotherapists.


"It's not just NO2 polluting the environment around airports - our study reveals high ozone concentrations at some sites too."


He added: "There's no doubt that aircraft contribute to the problem, but it should be noted that cars, buses and taxis ferrying passengers to and from these sites are dominant sources of pollution.


"With cheap flights making air travel more affordable, several airports want to expand capacity.


"We would urge the Government to consider ways of balancing passenger convenience with improving public health when looking at these (expansion) proposals."

A JLA spokesman said NO2 levels had never been a problem for the airport previously.

He added: "I know in the past we have monitored levels of nitrogen dioxide and we have always been well below the levels that are of concern.

"We have done this in conjunction with Liverpool City Council and we were well within the UK and local authority-required levels.

"But until we have seen exactly what this new report is saying, we will be unable to comment on its results."

The worst offenders in the report were Heathrow, Gatwick, Newcastle and Birmingham airports, which exceeded the recommendation by up to 75%.

Those with similar readings to Liverpool were Manchester, Blackpool, Sheffield, Humberside, London City, Southampton, Exeter and Gloucester.




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NO2 is a colourless gas with a characteristic sharp, biting odour. One of the most prominent air pollutants, it is given off by motor vehicles and fossil fuel-burning power plants.


While long-term exposure leads to lung problems, acute effects include irritation of the eyes.

Seems strange that nine airports with vastly different passenger levels and therefore aircraft movements should have the same levels of NO2.

i dont know if any of you know that Ryanair are now flying to kerry from june, we will have the most amount of irish cities in are destination list than anyone else at this rate

i dont know if any of you know that Ryanair are now flying to kerry from june, we will have the most amount of irish cities in are destination list than anyone else at this rate

Exellent. :cheers: :cheers:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AIRLINE-TIMETABLE-SAS-LIVERPOOL-TO-NEW-YORK_W0QQitemZ6610813476QQcategoryZ108949QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I had never heard of this service before. Was it maybe a freight route?

It might have been a pre 9/11 American CIA torture flight taking them to a cold war version of camp x ray, that they have been banging on about in the news of late.

I do realise this post is being monitored and scrutinised by the CIA and MI5 too, doe.

Over 332.000 passengers in February.
28.5% increase over February last year.

:cheers:

thats over 600,000 in 2 months

Liverpool Airport


Airport code: LPL
+44 (0)870 750 8484
9 miles from Liverpool



Liverpool Airport Guide



Liverpool Airport Guide has been developed to provide a handy reference for those travelling to, from or through Liverpool Airport, as well as those looking for historical information and news.

We have compiled information on every aspect of Liverpool Airport to help you find exactly what you're looking for, easily and quickly.

The airport provides a wide range of facilities including those for business, children and the disabled. In addition, a full range of 1st class airport services are offered.

Public transportation to and from the airport is reliable and frequent with a choice of trains, coaches, buses, taxis and car hire.

Those wishing to drive to the airport will find it easily accessible and well sign posted from the access roads. The airport offers a range of valet, short and long stay parking.

Liverpool Airport handles roughly 31 million passengers a year and demand is growing.

One of the north's busiest airports, Liverpool has 5 airlines which fly to over 30 different destinations worldwide.

makes me laugh

31 Million.
If only.
:cheers:

Mind you with the percentage increases we're getting,how long before this happens? :)

Mind you with the percentage increases we're getting,how long before this happens? :)

With the current increases - about ten years.
Though it might be a tad optimistic to expect 31m in a decade.

When you compare Liverpools total a decade ago with what it's handling now anything is possible. :)

You just know that JLA is on the move....was at Dingle Mount recently which has a superb view across to the Wirral and North Wales. It was in the evening and could see a pin prick of light approaching JLA from N.Wales...then another, and another and another. Not strictly a stack of course but all the same quite an exciting pointer to how busy the airport is getting.

Yeah it's like when you're near Manchester Airport and you can see loads of planes in the sky. A few years back, there was no indication in the sky whatsoever, that you were near Liverpool Airport. How times change. :cheers:

Yeah it's like when you're near Manchester Airport and you can see loads of planes in the sky. A few years back, there was no indication in the sky whatsoever, that you were near Liverpool Airport. How times change. :cheers:


Wait till we get our second runway. :) :) :cheers:

Six months ago I was passing LJLA on the train (Had just a few moments before crossed the Mersey from Runcorn) and could see planes approaching and taking off.....terrific!

AIRLINE VLM yesterday went out onto the streets of Liverpool to promote its air route between Liverpool and London.

The Belgian carrier started its service between John Lennon Airport (JLA) and London City Airport in February, 2004, following the Daily Post's successful Fight for a Flight campaign.

VLM now runs four return flights a day to the capital and the service was recently given a boost when the rail link between London City Airport and central London was completed, slashing journey times.

A recent analysis by the Daily Post revealed business people using the plane instead of the train could make major time savings on their journeys.

VLM has beefed up its sales team with extra staff and is also launching a drive to persuade Londoners to visit Liverpool.

All good stuff but we need a link to Heathrow.

Better still extend the runway and then we can start to get some longhaul routes ourselves.
Of course we will never get the level of overseas routes that London has and that's why we definitely need the link.

All good stuff but we need a link to Heathrow.
Desperately!!!!

Desperately!!!!

Oh I don`t know, it`s quite nice to go direct .....

:)

The following taken from another BB.

................................................................................................

The CAA's Annual Summary is now out and this is just a brief snatch re Liverpool/MAN:

Terminal pax only
Liverpool 4,409,018 in 2005, up from 3,351,922 in 2004
MAN 22,083,008 in 2005, up from 20,969,163 in 2004
TOTAL 26,492,026 in 2005, up from 24,321,085 in 2004

Terminal pax plus transit pax
Liverpool 4,411,243 in 2005, up from 3,353,350 in 2004
MAN 22,402,856 in 2005, up from 21,249,676 in 2004
TOTAL 26,814,099 in 2005, up from 24,603,026 in 2004


Liverpool/MAN % share of pax total for terminal and transit pax
Liverpool 16.4% in 2005, up from 13.6% in 2004
MAN 83.6% in 2005, down from 86.4% in 2004

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

Above us only sky .....

By the way I sent off a cheeky little email to Virgin Trains and Virgin Atlantic (same email - two recipients.) :poke: :lovethem:

ie, Virgin Trains could deliver 5m passengers by rail to LJLA ..... I`ve had two very nice replies back - obviously they keep an eye on the market and can`t divulge future plans.

But a ltllte bit of a poke with a stick doesn`t hurt does it. :poke: :lovethem:

I see that the M62/M57 junction is in line for major improvements with easier access into Liverpool JL Airport.

The airport will have a link road direct onto/near the Knowsley Expressway which in turn leads onto the M57 and its junction with the M62.

http://aboutknowsley.typepad.com/news/2006/03/multimillion_ta.html

I see that the M62/M57 junction is in line for major improvements with easier access into Liverpool JL Airport.

The airport will have a link road direct onto/near the Knowsley Expressway which in turn leads onto the M57 and its junction with the M62.

http://aboutknowsley.typepad.com/news/2006/03/multimillion_ta.html

Hmmmm, interesting.

They wouldn`t be proposing to spend £38m if they couldn`t justify it.......

More fascinating reading from the latest CAA figures for JLA(and Manchester Ringway).

The big underlying fact (in my opinion) is that JLA is now handling the equivalent of just under a third of Ringway's throughput for EU scheduled passengers. By any standard that's impressive as it has been achieved predominantly by 3 airlines, Easyjet, Ryanair and Wizz(and Ryanair not fully into its stride yet).

Ringway handled 12.8 million EU pax in 2005 (that's 6.65 mill scheduled and 6.17 mill charter). That's just a 1 per cent increase on '04 or just an extra 130,000 pax increase.

Once again it was international passenger traffic that came to rescue of Ringway, an area, of course, where Ringway as yet faces no real competition from any other airport. 5.86 mill international pax used Ringway in '05. That's 3.1 mill scheduled and 2.75 mill charter pax. A 17 per cent increase on '04 or an extra 850,000 pax.

I know Iam biased because I want JLA to take off and soar, but I think management at Ringway are facing some big problems. Given its predominace in civil aviation outside London, certainly 15 years ago, Ringway has had a dissapointing growth rate in the last 10 years. That 1 per cent growth rate will be setting alarm bells ringing - there are whole markets where as of today, Ringway still faces no competition such as Belgium, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Austria, Malta, Cyprus, Greece, Croatia, the Canaries, Turkey and of course, as the scheduled market opens up, the charter market is in long term decline. Had a quick look at the figures and it looks like Jet2 hasn't had any overall dramatic effect in growing the Ringway market. Indeed with the looming demise of British Airways European and BMI getting increasingly picky on route and pricing plans, the problems are going to grow.

One of the mysteries is why Easyjet hasn't opened up at Ringway. Maybe it's Ringway's rather old fashioned layout with operational problems which is the problem.

Meanwhile JLA handled 3.1 mill EU passengers(scheduled and charter) in '05 - an increase of 36% on '04. International pax totalled just 287,000, an increase of 28%.
JLA also handled 1 million domestic pax, up 20%, one of best increases in the UK. Ringway handled 3.37 mill domestic pax, up 4%.

Think I've said before, that when JLA introduces new european routes, it tends to shred the Ringway market(look out for the 2 new portugese routes for 2006). Further analysis for another post.

What of the future? Well Ryanair gives a clue. They boasted recently that they've replaced Aer Lingus as Dublin's largest airline, adding 5 new aircraft there, boosting European destinations to 18 with eight new routes(tended to concentrate on UK destinations up to now). The overall effect is an increase of 5.5 mill pax to 7 million. Meanwhile the Ryanair megalomania has taken hold at Frankfurt, where 50 routes and 8 mill annual pax will mean it will overtake Dublin as their second largest base after Stansted. Just for good measure they offered a 12.5 milion euro loan on capital expenditure for the new Frankfurt terminal.

I think it's obvious that JLA is their next big plan of action and the only thing which is holding them back will be a possible lack of terminal capacity at JLA. The same consideration might be facing Easyjet although they have praised JLA for major improvments in aircraft and passenger handling times.

Roll on 2006 and the JLA expansion plans - it's going to be an interesting year!

If the second Mersey crossing actually gets built it will bring the areas to the south of the airport a lot closer time wise than before.

One thing though thats puzzling is the location of the bridge. I would have thought it would be better for all if it linked the M56 and M57 via the Knowsley Expressway with a major spur into the airport.

But having said that the airport (and Peel) are major backers of the bridge so I assume they will be happy with its location to the east of the current bridge.

When (if) the bridge comes on stream, then that together with the airport link road, the trains with Liverpool South Parkway opening up in approx 2 months time, will bring in a bigger catchment area to help swell the airports passengers numbers even more.

Pity about the trams ...........................................


http://www.merseycrossing.co.uk/html/images/mersey%20aerialnew.jpg

Liverpool JL Airport kept its position at #3 airport for scheduled international passengers using non-London airports.

The top 10 UK:

Heathrow - 60,952,373
Gatwick - 19,275,098
Stansted - 18,353,080
Manchester - 9,758,173
Luton - 6,763,451
Birmingham - 5,119,225
Liverpool - 3,089,107
Bristol - 2,488,347
Glasgow - 2,080,747

The Liverpool JL total only has routes to European cities whereas, for example, MAN includes all of its long-haul as well.

Thanks Jets9 and Bluesnapper for excellent analysis and news, a really good read.

Jet2 landed a BaE Avro at Gatwick yesterday morning. (I think that's what they are called - or a BaE 146 - those little 4 seater jets with high wings that smell oily when you travel in them). I assumed it was the incoming Manchester flight, unless it was a special flight of some sort (as Manchester is their only scheduled route from Gatwick). I don't think they can fill a 737 on that route, and BA are oddly competitive on that route, even close to the day of flights you can get a good price - I think they are trying to drive Jet2 off it. Why on earth Jet2 can't run their Avro from Gatwick to Liverpool instead of Manchester I just don't know, they would fill it. I think those planes have the ability to fly just over 1,000 miles, so there must be unserved markets within 1,000 of Liverpool they could use it on to keep it busy - how far is Prague? or Copenhagen?

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=16880198%26method=full%26siteid=50061%26headline=it%2ds%2dnot%2da%2djoke%2d%2d%2dwe%2dhave%2dlanded%2dat%2dwrong%2dairport-name_page.html

It's not a joke - we have landed at wrong airport Mar 30 2006

By Alan Weston Daily Post Staff

A BLUNDERING jet pilot is to be questioned and could face disciplinary action after landing his passengers from Liverpool in a military airfield by mistake.

He touched down the Ryanair flight from John Lennon airport five miles short of his intended destination at City of Derry Airport.

As the 39 passengers and six crew were taken away from Ballykelly airbase by coach, the pilot was ordered to explain himself.

At the same time his jet was grounded as Civil Aviation Authority investigators began an immediate inquiry into the major navigational error.

Ryanair, one of Europe's top low budget airlines, said it was the first time in 20 years of operating there had been such an incident.

A spokesman said: "Such a mistake has never occurred before."

The Airbus A320 was operated on behalf of the airline by Eirjet, which is based in Shannon, Co Clare.

Flight FR9884 had been on its way across the Irish Sea when the pilot was cleared by air traffic control at City of Derry for a visual approach.

But, after circling for a time, he then mistook the military landing strip at nearby Ballykelly for the commercial airport.

Passengers, who at first laughed, thinking it was a joke, later spoke of their shock at landing so near yet so far off course.

Stunned soldiers took photographs of the stranded aircraft after the pilot announced: "Ladies and gentlemen, we have landed at the wrong airport.

"I would ask you to be patient with us."

One woman said she looked out of her window in disbelief and a man from Co Offaly said he feared they were going to crash.

Another passenger said: "As soon as we arrived at the military army base ... the pilot apologised that we may have arrived at the wrong airport.

"Everyone started laughing and thought it was a joke. "I looked out and saw Army officers everywhere. It was just unbelievable. I think the Army officers were shocked themselves and started taking photographs."

At no stage was the flight in any danger as it landed safely at 2.40pm, Ryanair stressed.

But the spokesman confirmed: "This incident arose as a result of an error by the Eirjet's pilot who mistakenly believed he was on a visual approach to City of Derry airport.

"The Eirjet pilot was cleared by air traffic control in City of Derry for a visual approach and mistook the nearby Ballykelly for City of Derry."

"All passengers were coached to City of Derry airport."

Both the CAA and IAA (Irish Aviation Authority) were notified.

The Ryanair spokesman added: "We have also asked Eirjet, the operator of the aircraft, to carry out a full investigation as in over seven years of Ryanair flights into City of Derry airport and over 20 years of Ryanair operated flights such a mistake has never occurred before."

Eirjet said a full investigation into the misjudged landing would be carried out and that the airline would cooperate fully with the Irish Department of Transport, the CAA and the Irish Aviation Authority. Eirjet also apologised to passengers for any inconvenience caused.

alanweston@dailypost.co.uk

(You have to see the funny side -- that`s another possible route from LJLA :) )

Only 39 passengers on board suggests problems with the route's long term viability. Maybe it was a midweek lull!

You`re right Fitz Ballykelly airbase probably wont catch on as a holiday destination. :)

Only 39 passengers on board suggests problems with the route's long term viability. Maybe it was a midweek lull!

Agreed it's not huge, but you often get surprisingly low loads on domestic flights out of peak hours, and on internal BA flights I've taken from London to Newcastle there are sometimes just a couple of dozen people on them, same for Manchester.

It doesn't seem like the kind of route that would support the use of large planes on a daily basis. My assumption is that Ryanir perceive it as a hub-spoke route, indeed their publicity when they launched the route seemed to imply that, selling the benefits to people in that part of Ireland of a direct link to their low-cost network from Liverpool, effectively using the service as a feeder to their Liverpool base. The problem in a way with the low cost model is the insistence on only use one (or nowadays 2) types of plane, both of them quite big, on all routes. They say it's economical for a number of reasons, but the down-side must be often flying lots of empty seats around the place.

Probably not worth asking you this Ftiz, if like me you don't live locally, but I wonder if any of the local Forumers have ever used that route? I've only been to Derry once, and it's a brilliant place to visit.

just been to JLA and an Air Jamaican, yes you do hear right, has just landed, an A320, Rice has flown in also on an A320 but with US logos, can somebody please confirm the Jamaican

just been to JLA and an Air Jamaican, yes you do hear right, has just landed, an A320, Rice has flown in also on an A320 but with US logos, can somebody please confirm the JamaicanIt isn't an Air Jamaica plane, well not any more anyway. It now belongs to the Irish charter carrier Eirjet - that's why it has 'Eirjet' titles down the side. They acquired it secondhand from Air Jamaica but it still wears the latter's basic livery because it han't been repainted in Eirjet's green & white scheme yet. Eirjet have been subbing for Ryanair at Liverpool for the last few months thanks to many Ryanair pilots reaching their flying hour limits for the year meaning lots of grounded Ryanair jets around Europe. However, the new year for pilot hours calculations starts tomorrow meaning an end to Eirjet operations at Liverpool from this weekend.

As Bustcapl said on another thread, Condi Rice arrived last night on a 757 which is still, obviously, parked up at the airport. Absolutely, definitely not on an A320 or a 747.

Maybe it'd be best to ask about spotting stuff over on NWAN in future. It is their speciality afterall :).

Official CAA stats now released for January 2006,

Liverpool JL Airport , up 83,950 (+36%) on January 2005 to 319,023
MAN, down 537 passengers on January 2005 to 1,362,998.

Official CAA stats now released for January 2006,

Liverpool JL Airport , up 83,950 (+36%) on January 2005 to 319,023
MAN, down 537 passengers on January 2005 to 1,362,998.

:applause:

The gap narrows further

:cheers:

:cheers: :cheers:

:cheers: :cheers:

The future is bright :cheers:

The present is Orange. :)

I see that the M62/M57 junction is in line for major improvements with easier access into Liverpool JL Airport.

The airport will have a link road direct onto/near the Knowsley Expressway which in turn leads onto the M57 and its junction with the M62.


What they need to do is run a rail link into John Lennon terminal: Merseyrail and maybe a direct line from Manchester too - many people in Mancher use John Lennon. And maybe other service from other major towns in the North West. The bare minimum a Merseyrail oine. The rail lines are not far away, so there is no real problem. A Merseyrail line could be taken via Garston Docks and along the river front to the airport.

That sure seems sensible to me. And better sooner rather than later at the rate with which land around the airport is being developed and increasing in price.

The cost will be a very big barrier to it happening.

Also, I cannot think the National Trust will be very happy either in a rail line running through or below its property!

Those latest CAA January airport stats tell a story. Ringway's overall small reduction masks a -6% reduction on European services, cancelled out by a +6% increase in international figures, hence the virtual standstill in growth from Jan 05.

JLA's figures shows a whopping 56% increase in European passengers over '05.

Putting it another way - JLA was 17.2% the size of Ringway in Jan 05...........By Jan '06, JLA was 23.5% the size of Ringway......a huge leap forward.

Have a look at the turnover figures though. JLA is still less than 10% the size of MAN in these terms. Long haul passengers generate far more income for airports than domestic or short haul flights.
JLA needs the long haul flights to really close the gap.

Have a look at the turnover figures though. JLA is still less than 10% the size of MAN in these terms. Long haul passengers generate far more income for airports than domestic or short haul flights.
JLA needs the long haul flights to really close the gap.

Before JLA can even hope to get near to Manchester it needs a rail station at the terminal with fast lines to the centre and maybe to Manchester centre, and the roads updated around. The roads are being adressed.

It is not a matter of a numbers game comparing to Manchester, Luton, or what, it is a matter of getting the numbers up as much as possible without having a Heathrow type of gridlock which could paralyse the surrounding district and then act in a negative way - most passengers who use Haethrow do not go to London, and same can be said for Manchester. Also, the pasengers should be mainly people who visit the area, not immediately move off to somewhere else, causing traffic jams for the locals and more aircraft noise.

What JLA needs is direct flights to all major cities: London, Glasgow, Berlin, Paris, NY, Amsterdam etc. That will benefit the area more than large numbers passing through.

Realistically MAN & JLA should be twin airports serving the NW region and beyond, with direct non-stop rail links to the main city centres and direct non-stop to each other (which should take about 15 mins). Then the region wins and no one loses.

And how would twin airports work? I'm unaware of any working example of this concept, though if there is, I'd be grateful if someone enlightens me to it.

Before JLA can even hope to get near to Manchester it needs a rail station at the terminal with fast lines to the centre and maybe to Manchester centre, and the roads updated around. The roads are being adressed.

It is not a matter of a numbers game comparing to Manchester, Luton, or what, it is a matter of getting the numbers up as much as possible without having a Heathrow type of gridlock which could paralyse the surrounding district and then act in a negative way - most passengers who use Haethrow do not go to London, and same can be said for Manchester. Also, the pasengers should be mainly people who visit the area, not immediately move off to somewhere else, causing traffic jams for the locals and more aircraft noise.What JLA needs is direct flights to all major cities: London, Glasgow, Berlin, Paris, NY, Amsterdam etc. That will benefit the area more than large numbers passing through.

Realistically MAN & JLA should be twin airports serving the NW region and beyond, with direct non-stop rail links to the main city centres and direct non-stop to each other (which should take about 15 mins). Then the region wins and no one loses.

John,agree with you re road/rail links.
As to your point about passengers being confined to those who visit the area that would imply having an airport for almost every town in the country.
Don't know about the twin airports though,how would that work?
Where would they be run from?
What about the current ownership,private at Liverpool and council run at Manchester.

How would twin airports work?

Great minds Gareth.

John,agree with you re road/rail links.
As to your point about passengers being confined to those who visit the area that would imply having an airport for almost every town in the country.
Don't know about the twin airports though,how would that work?
Where would they be run from?
What about the current ownership, private at Liverpool and council run at Manchester.

One airport director. A strategy would need to be in place and a super fast non-stop rail link between the two - and to the centres of each city. Say a passenger is coming in from the USA at Manchester, and Glasgow bound. They could take a fast 10-15 minute train to JLA and catch the link, all on the one ticket, even the train fare as well. Passport control at Manchester (has to be as first port of call in the UK), out and check the bags to Glasgow a few feet away and the passenger never sees the luggage until Glasgow. Manchester could be long haul and Liverpool short haul and linked by high speed rail. If Manchester is fogged in, they just catch the train link to JLA. The more you think about it the more it pans out and makes sense with all gaining.

Ownership is a not real issue, it is will to make it work that matters.

Say a passenger is coming in from the USA at Manchester, and Glasgow bound. They could take a fast 10-15 minute train to JLA and catch the link, all on the one ticket, even the train fare as well. Passport control at Manchester (has to be as first port of call in the UK), out and check the bags to Glasgow a few feet away and the passenger never sees the luggage until Glasgow. Manchester could be long haul and Liverpool short haul and linked by high speed rail.
You are describing a 'Hub & Spoke' system but, using two airports. The Port Authority of New York uses this sytem with JFK and Liberty as (mainly) the international gateways and La Guardia as the domestic airport. However there is one of your components missing, that being a rapid transit link between all three.

Have a look at the turnover figures though. JLA is still less than 10% the size of MAN in these terms. Long haul passengers generate far more income for airports than domestic or short haul flights.
JLA needs the long haul flights to really close the gap.


I think Liverpool will gladly take all the short haul flights 'til the cows come home, happy days :)

Has anyone noted that an unamed airline has applied, and been granted, to the UK and Russian Governments to fly Liverpool/Moscow!!!!!!

Here is the info.

"The two countries also approved new routes between Moscow and Birmingham and Liverpool, as well as between London and Krasnoyarsk and Kaliningrad, though which airlines will serve those routes has not been determined yet, Rubakhin said."

The above taken from the Moscow Times no less

www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2006/04/03/048.html

that Iluysian 4 engined one will do :laugh:

One airport director. A strategy would need to be in place and a super fast non-stop rail link between the two - and to the centres of each city. Say a passenger is coming in from the USA at Manchester, and Glasgow bound. They could take a fast 10-15 minute train to JLA and catch the link, all on the one ticket, even the train fare as well. Passport control at Manchester (has to be as first port of call in the UK), out and check the bags to Glasgow a few feet away and the passenger never sees the luggage until Glasgow. Manchester could be long haul and Liverpool short haul and linked by high speed rail. If Manchester is fogged in, they just catch the train link to JLA. The more you think about it the more it pans out and makes sense with all gaining.

Ownership is a not real issue, it is will to make it work that matters.


Sorry John,don't like it.
I would rather see Liverpool develop on its own rather than fall under the control of a director based in Manchester and ending up taking the crumbs Manchester doesn't want.
Time for Liverpool to develop its own long haul routes.
Maybe will never catch up with Manchester in that department but who cares?as long as we continue to grow on our own.
About your last point,how many times is Manchester 'fogged' in?
How many times are we going to benefit by having this high speed link?
It strikes me that this plan will keep Liverpool in its place playing a secondry role to Manchester.

Say a passenger comes in from the USA and is Glasgow bound.
He simply alights at Liverpool,does not catch the high speed link but instead catches the direct local flight to Glasgow,even simpler.

Sorry John,don't like it.
I would rather see Liverpool develop on its own rather than fall under the control of a director based in Manchester and ending up taking the crumbs Manchester doesn't want.

You are being very negative and seeing problems that can be ironed out in a consitution at the outset. The director could be based in Warrington mid-way. He doesn't have to be at the airports.

You are being very negative and seeing problems that can be ironed out in a consitution at the outset. The director could be based in Warrington mid-way. He doesn't have to be at the airports.


Yeah! right,I can see that happenening and i don't think.

No,I'm quite happy with things as they are developing now at Liverpool.
We are expanding rapidly and there is no reason why we will not continue to do so in the future.

Say a passenger comes in from the USA and is Glasgow bound. He simply alights at Liverpool,does not catch the high speed link but instead catches the direct local flight to Glasgow,even simpler.

Linking two airports making them a twin airport, with a super-fast high speed rail link and direct links to major city centres makes a lot of sense for the North West region. All benefit. This gives far more flexibility for flights and for the passengers too. People form North Wales/Merseysdie could check in at JLA even if flying from MAN and just take the high speed link, and vise-versa.

for me this is a good idea, it is an amazing vision. some people need to have the sense of vision that cities like Dubai have, i mean the people who designed the 3 palms, world and claw in Dubai didnt have small minds, they visualise something and a few years later there it is, we need to think in this way too

I think Liverpool will gladly take all the short haul flights 'til the cows come home, happy days :)

Has anyone noted that an unamed airline has applied, and been granted, to the UK and Russian Governments to fly Liverpool/Moscow!!!!!!

Cool.....bring on the `Vodka`

Even `Condi and Jack` did `Bagdad` on `Airforce 2`

Linking two airports making them a twin airport, with a super-fast high speed rail link and direct links to major city centres makes a lot of sense for the North West region. All benefit. This gives far more flexibility for flights and for the passengers too. People form North Wales/Merseysdie could check in at JLA even if flying from MAN and just take the high speed link, and vise-versa.


I thought on another thread we'd got rid of this 'North West Region' business.
This twin airport idea smacks very much of 'Regionalism',why not go the whole hog and scrap local authorities in favour of a Warrington based North West Regional Authority?
What would happen to the Liverpool City Region idea then?

Why would people from North Wales want to check in at Liverpool to travel from Manchester?
At the moment they find it a nuisance to travel over the bridge (even further with the proposed new bridge)and back into Liverpool through Speke.
The new link road from the Ford Road will make it slightly easier but not enough to make the detour.
For them to then get a train,no matter how fast,into Manchester is just laughable.
They will do as they do now,stay on the M56 into Manchester.

Can you honestly see Manchester giving up control to a Warrington based director anyway?

Right, if this twin airport idea is to work then the 'company' will have a budget to ensure that the infrastructure is in place for the future.

Can anyone honestly see the Mancs giving Liverpool Airport any money that will make a difference in bringing that airports level up? No I can't either.

You only have to see the goings on in the background of the 'Northern Way' to see what will happen. The Mancs see the great strides LJLA is making and are trying to ensure agreements with other northern cities to the exclusion of Liverpool Airport in a 'you scratch my back and I will scratch yours' scenario.

I thought on another thread we'd got rid of this 'North West Region' business.?

It's like shit on yer shoe!

Copied from another BB,

There is a press call for 10am tomorrow at Liverpool John Lennon Airport. The press call header states....

"Ryanair to announce further major expansion from Liverpool John Lennon Airport"

Copied from another BB,

There is a press call for 10am tomorrow at Liverpool John Lennon Airport. The press call header states....

"Ryanair to announce further major expansion from Liverpool John Lennon Airport"

Nice one,roll on tomorrow. :cheers:

L'pool to Moscow?! Bloody hell! That to me is a seriously big step. I think they should follow it up with further peripheral cities like Istanbul and perhaps Reykjavik :D

I hope plans for expansion of the airport are presented soon.

whilst we drool of anything over 400ft and an airport capacity of 10m ppl, we just have to look in disbelief at what is happening over sea in Dubai, they have permission to build 850 towers ranging from 50m to 450m and an airport handling around 120m ppl a year, here is the plans, prepare to be amazed at the airport
http://img349.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bigfuckingmasterplan5gt.jpg

Hope Ryanair announce Frankfurt-hahn and/or Hamburg-lubeck, Brussels-Charleroi, even Stockholm........JLA needs more of the key city destinations.

whilst we drool of anything over 400ft and an airport capacity of 10m ppl, we just have to look in disbelief at what is happening over sea in Dubai, they have permission to build 850 towers ranging from 50m to 450m and an airport handling around 120m ppl a year, here is the plans, prepare to be amazed at the airport
http://img349.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bigfuckingmasterplan5gt.jpg


Yes amazing,certainly beats Speke.

At the moment. :)

The thing with Dubai is it's all built on sand!! having watched the documentary that showed the building of the Palm and plans to build the World, even if I had the money, I wouldn't buy a place there. One big storm and the place will be washed away.

Just flicked through the Ryanair booking engine and the new Liverpool routes appear to be - Aberdeen, Alghero (Sardinia), Ancona, Inverness, Kaunas, Krakow, Poznan, Santander, Santiago De Compostela, Tampere and Wroclaw.

Eleven more routes!! that would be brilliant if confirmed. Peel had better hurry up with the master plan for the airport development which is now well overdue.

Rumour has it Frankfurt to be added in the very near future.

Frankfurt, cool.

I like `Frankenfurters`.

and i`m sure they like `scouse` and scoucers.....

RYANAIR LAUNCHES ELEVEN NEW ROUTES FROM LIVERPOOL
TO ABERDEEN, ALGHERO, ANCONA, INVERNESS, KAUNAS, KRAKOW, POZNAN, SANTANDER, SANTIAGO, TAMPERE, WROCLAW

£2,000,000 SAVINGS SALE ON ALL LIVERPOOL ROUTES TO CELEBRATE
NEW ROUTES FROM £2.49*

Ryanair, Europe’s largest low fares airline, today (Wednesday, 5th April 2006) announced 11 new routes from its Liverpool base to Aberdeen and Inverness in Scotland, Alghero and Ancona in Italy, Kaunas in Lithuania, Krakow, Poznan and Wroclaw in Poland, Santander and Santiago in Spain and Tampere in Finland. The new routes will operate 3 times weekly (except Aberdeen and Inverness 7 times weekly and Tampere 4 times weekly) from the 3rd October bringing the total number of destinations served by Ryanair in Liverpool to 32.

Speaking in Liverpool today, Ryanair’s deputy CEO, Michael Cawley said:

“Ryanair launched its 11th base in John Lennon Airport in November 2004 and since then traffic has increased eightfold. Today, we are delighted to be adding 11 new routes from Liverpool, which will deliver 600 new jobs, 600,000 more passengers and £80M additional tourism spend in Merseyside.

“From October, Ryanair will base its sixth and seventh Boeing 737-800 aircraft in Liverpool, bringing our investment in John Lennon Airport to over $420M bringing 2.8M passengers per annum, sustaining 2,800 jobs in the region and allowing passengers in the North West to enjoy flights for half the price of Easyjet.

“To celebrate the launch of these 11 new routes Ryanair is launching a £2,000,000 seat sale available on all routes from Liverpool, available from today on www.ryanair.com and we advise passengers to book early as demand will be very strong”.

NEW ROUTES

Destination Days Fare* Commencement Date
Aberdeen 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 £2.49 3rd October 2006
Alghero 1 - - - 5 - 7 £2.49 3rd Oct
Ancona - 2 – 4 – 6 - £2.49 3rd Oct
Inverness 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 £2.49 3rd Oct
Kaunas - 2 – 4 – 6 - £2.49 3rd Oct
Krakow - - 3 – 5 – 7 £2.49 3rd Oct
Poznan 1 – 3 - - 6 - £2.49 3rd Oct
Santander 1 – 3 – 5 - - £2.49 3rd Oct
Santiago - 2 – 4 – 6 - £2.49 3rd Oct
Tampere 1 – 3 – 5 – 7 £2.49 3rd Oct
Wroclaw - 2 – 4 - - 7 £2.49 3rd Oct

is there any flights to edinburgh from JLA? If not that should be implimented

This is the equivalent of 5 new full service routes......the Ryanair model from JLA is changing because initial routes tended to be seven days a week operations. Wonder whether they're getting around capacity restraints at JLA terminal by trying to cover more bases for strategic reasons. Dissapointed Frankfurt/Brussels/Stockholm isn't there.....bigger city routes attract bigger pax figures and maybe they don't want to go there(yet) because JLA isn't ready to handle it.

Eleven more routes!! that would be brilliant if confirmed. Peel had better hurry up with the master plan for the airport development which is now well overdue.


Yes, just when is this plan to be announced?

We've even got our own dedicated page on BBC Ceefax now.
Liverppol/Manchester were both on page 448.
Liverpool remains on that page and Manchester goes to page 453.

The Ryan Air suits seem to think that JLA will be doubling in size over the next 5 years, so maybe they've had a sneak peek?

well considering i seen a sign saying @flying to 30 destinations@ just last year, we now have 50 or so just by RYR and EZY, and i think EZY will mention something in the summer

It did mention on the bbc news tonight that there was plans for a terminal expansion, any confirmation of this?

I didn't even know where some of these new destinations are, so the destination board at LJLA will look very exotic to me. http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/ If you click on the "DESTINATIONS" tab at the top you get a map, click on Liverpool and.....well it's fantastic!

I just hope Ryanair are doing well, as a company, and that their Liverpool operation is performing well. They are ruthless, so I presume that if their Liverpool operation wasn't performing, they'd reduce it rather than expand it. Maybe it's my age and pessimistic nature, but I'm so used to bad news for Liverpool, I keep expecting failures along the "flybe" lines. (Someone mentioned Edinburgh as a potential destination, but isn't that one of the routes flybe introduced a couple of years back and closed because they couldn't make it pay?). The reduction by Ryanair of flights to Cork to less than weekly recently made me wonder, but they argued that they transferred some slights to Kerry because of Cork Airport increasing prices, not because of poor yields.

Airlines seem take advantage of announcing new routes to quietly drop poorly performing ones, they just disappear from the schedule for the next season or suddenly become "unbookable", so if anyone spots any disappearing Ryanair routes - or reductions in frequency - would be interested to hear about it. Hopefully there wont' be any.

I must learn to be optimistic about Liverpool, and get used to it doing well.

[QUOTE=liverpolitan. I must learn to be optimistic about Liverpool, and get used to it doing well.[/QUOTE]

Yes, about bloody time :rock: :hahaha: Pleased to see you joining us "positive folk". ;)

But Woody, you must admit, in the 1970s it was considered good news if a Jobcentre opened creating 20 clerical jobs (Liverpool Echo: "Jobs Joy for City") , and the very idea that Liverpool Airport would grow faster than Manchester would have seemed like fantasty.

http://www.crtvg.es/camweb/priportadaeleccion.htm

Some great webcams in Galicia, including some in Santiago itself. They are temperamental though, so not always online. You have to install the software but it's safe.

Just checked prices, out of interest, and you can get a return in November to Santiago for around forty four quid. There might be cheaper days, but it's really really cheap. I hope everyone buys a http://www.carbonneutral.com/ bit of carbon neutralising goodness though (from that site or there are others)............a tenner is hardly a lot to pay when you get to fly to Spain for £40, and if the alternative is grandchildren drowning and suffocating because of climate change, it's probably ten quid really well spent.

But Woody, you must admit, in the 1970s it was considered good news if a Jobcentre opened creating 20 clerical jobs (Liverpool Echo: "Jobs Joy for City") , and the very idea that Liverpool Airport would grow faster than Manchester would have seemed like fantasty. .

Poli , Yes I agree the 70`s 80`s could not be said to the happy`st for the city, and despite the best efforts of some politians and certain public bodies to do otherwise, the city is on the rise. It is amazing the recent growth of JLA and the soon to be published expansion plan should indicate what we all hope will be an enlarged terminal ( or maybe T2 ?) and a extended runway .

Having lived through the "bad times" I do get annoyed at some of the less than positive vibes that do appear on this forum . To much whinging and moaning at times, its not just the rise of JLA thats wonderful ,you just have to look around the city to find construction activity that 20 years ago could only have been seen in London.

But Woody, you must admit, the very idea that Liverpool Airport would grow faster than Manchester would have seemed like fantasty.
But the LHR link is even more imperative. Without the LHR link Liverpool is cut-off from, over 80%, of all UK longhaul trans-ocean and intercontinental air traffic.

But the LHR link is even more imperative. Without the LHR link Liverpool is cut-off from, over 80%, of all UK longhaul trans-ocean and intercontinental air traffic.

Agree, that would be the most prized NEW route to secure.

Sorry folks, but what is LHR?

Sorry folks, but what is LHR?
The call letters (IATA airport code) for London Heathrow. Liverpool is LPL, Gatwick is LGW, Madrid is MAD, Toronto YYZ, etc, etc.

New Ryanair routes is good news but they are still not linking JLA to their three other major european bases, Frankfurt-Hahn, Brussels Charleroi and Stockholm Skavsta. Love to know what's behind their strategy. Also why can they justify a full seven day all year service to Inverness(and Riga) but not to Kaunas?

What is it about Poland and JLA....There are now no fewer than six Polish routes available from Ryanair, Wizz and Easyjet. What's an even bigger mystery is that Ryanair and Easyjet are going head to head on the Krakow route. They usually try to avoid each other so the pricing war will be interesting to see develop. In comparison Ringway only offers 2 polish routes that have already been thoroughly outperformed by Wizz.

Then there are the seven french routes and eleven Spanish destinations(and 7 Italian) and as yet just two choices for german travellers. What's the reluctance to get involved in the German market?

jets9, the Polish thing is about the fact that there apparently 80,000 Polish workers in the Noth West, most of whom have arrived since whenever Poland joined the EU (not long)

I'm surprised that Stockholm isn't included in Ryanair's destinations, but Brussels and Frankfurt attract few leisure passengers and both have multiple daily departures from MAN, which are used primarily by business and transfer passengers. Charleroi was tried once and musn't have been successful.

Ryanair and EasyJet are going head to head on the Krakow route, because it's a big enough market, and growing fast. Already served by by SkyEurope from MAN, and Wizz from Liverpool to Katowice (could be described as Krakow-West even, it's the same market).

A capital idea Apr 6 2006

VLM may be able to bring its Liverpool-London link back up to full strength on the back of new Ryanair flights.

Irish budget carrier Rya-nair has added a further 11 destinations to Liverpool John Lennon airport, taking its total routes from the city to 32. VLM flies four regular services each day between Liverpool and London City airport in the capital's Docklands but early last month withdrew its lunch time service due to poor passenger numbers.

But VLM spokesman Tim Gresty said foreign tourists flying into Liverpool on the extensive Ryanair network could mean more traffic for them.

He said: "We recognise that Merseyside has plenty of attractions, but some people from abroad still view a visit to London as mandatory.

"A week in Liverpool and a day in London is an ideal balance.

And he said the extra traffic could see a return of the fifth daily flight for Liverpool: "We will keep the matter under review. We would be very enthusiastic if business levels grew and we could reinstate the fifth rotation."

How near to the current terminal capacity is JLA? And how long before the full capacity is reached?
I want to get an idea of how urgent the new expansion plans are.
Peel may opt to push through more extravagant plans if they have more time for planning apps/construction.

How near to the current terminal capacity is JLA? And how long before the full capacity is reached?
I want to get an idea of how urgent the new expansion plans are.
Peel may opt to push through more extravagant plans if they have more time for planning apps/construction.

It all depends on flight timings.
If loads can be spread throughout the day then capacity is greatly increased.
The problem arises when flights are bunched at peak times causing terminal congestion.

during early morning (5-8) JLA can be caotic and seem like it is going to explode but some times in the day it can seem nearly deserted so it really does depend on flight times, i would say after the 7million mark we will need to expand big

during early morning (5-8) JLA can be caotic and seem like it is going to explode but some times in the day it can seem nearly deserted so it really does depend on flight times, i would say after the 7million mark we will need to expand big

You're quite right. To get the plane home to Ciampino from LJLA we have to get up at 4.30 since the flight leaves at 6.55. Anybody who goes to the airport at 6.00am to check in will note that there are normally 8 to 10 desks already open even though not all the shops are open and its often difficult to buy a paper!

Apart from expanding the physical terminal which IMHO is already far to small and also badly designed inside (You check in on the Ground floor then get sent to the 3rd and then go through security on the 2nd), Peel need to look at improving the overall services on offer.

However Liverpool looks quite good to my 'signora' because Rome Ciampino is absolutely crap..

You check in on the Ground floor then get sent to the 3rd and then go through security on the 2nd.

The idea behind this is the airlines that fly into Liverpool JL Airport are low-cost mainly and do not pay much in the way of fees to the airport.

The airport needs to get its money back somehow so the main two methods to recoup its outlay is through the car-park (it will always be cheaper than the equivelant at MAN) and through rent from its shops etc.

The shops will only pay the rent being asked if they get customers through their doors, so the route the airport sends its passengers on goes passed as many of the shops as possible.

Do you reckon a huge new terminal will be built and the current one ripped down, so the space can be utilised for something else? Or do you think it would be more likely to operate 2 terminals? Or just expand the current one further?
Just speculation i know. But its interesting to see what peoples thoughts are.

I guess we will see an expansion of the present terminal.

Should have added in the short term.

that is why i think minor expansions like we have seen are not good ideas, unless they can rip down that small little box they created behind the hangars (which did bring us 6 extra 767 sized stands) there isnt much can be done expansion wise to the east, we need a terminal similira to Kansai (not quite as big) so expansion is easy

this way it can be expanded east or west
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/8021/airportideas6cq.jpg

westisbest,

having seen the plans about six months ago (remember it may have changed since then) you may not be too 'wide' of the mark there.......................

sorry, we need another one of these too