MONTRÉAL Métro [Archive]

hkskyline

September 11th, 2005, 02:54 AM

A system in need of major surgery: Our metro stations and trains urgently require an injection of $2.6 billion.
The green-line cars, in particular, are so old they need to be replaced before breakdowns and maintenance costs soar
10 September 2005
Montreal Gazette

When Montreal's rubber-tire metro made its debut in 1966, it was fast, quiet - and a sophisticated addition to a city on the cusp of staging the world's fair.

OK, so it was sweltering at first inside the cars and a few people fainted because of an ill-conceived ventilation system.

But it still won over many Montrealers like Robert Humphreys, whose first impression when he zipped along in the metro was: "Wow."

"We were all just enthralled with it at the time," said Humphreys, 64, now semi-retired. "So even if there were little mistakes, you never noticed them. You were more forgiving."

Next year, the metro turns 40. It won't be "the new 30." Signs of creeping age can be seen - and even felt, in the case of travelling on Line 1, the green line, when your body sometimes shakes uncontrollably as the train heads east from Lionel Groulx. (The vibrations are the result of tires wearing out and an old suspension on the green-line cars.)

Maintenance costs are rising and the entire metro fleet is old - the MR-63 cars on the green line are almost 40 years old.

In an industry where subway cars start being replaced after 30 years, the average age of the MTC's fleet is about 32 years - more than double that of the Toronto Transit Commission's fleet, with an average age of about 14.

Even if Quebec gives the go-ahead immediately to replace the MR-63s, with tenders and test runs, the last of them probably wouldn't be withdrawn from service until about 2013 - at the age of 47, said Carl Desrosiers, executive director of the MTC's metro network. And spare parts will be impossible to find by then, he said.

While safety won't be a problem because of the metro's fail-safe system, Desrosiers said the maintenance costs will explode and there is a risk the number of breakdowns will increase.

"What we say is if we move right away, there won't be a crisis," he said. "It will go well. But if we stretch it out, then we'll have a reliability problem."

Some key upgrades of the metro's aging infrastructure are already under way. In fact, the 66-kilometre network is undergoing the mother of all facelifts and some extensive surgery. A new control centre, 43 new escalators - more reliable ones, the MTC promises - and a new public-address system with clearer sound are part of the $311-million Phase 1 renovations, scheduled to end next year.

If the proposed second and third phases receive funding, the metro will get a new signalling system, countless kilometres of new fibre-optic cables and numerous other upgrades.

"I would say to you we're rebuilding (the metro)," said Desrosiers, who is scheduled to speak about transit technology at the MetroRail 2005 international transit conference in Miami, Dec. 5 to 7. "It's a bit like an old car where you start to change a part - you have to change almost all of them."

The hefty price tag for all the work under way and on the MTC's metro wish list is almost $2.6 billion over 10 years, including about $1.1 billion for 336 new metro cars.

The renovations are important, but the cars are vital, said Marvin Rotrand, vice-chairperson of the MTC's board of directors. "You can't have a wonderful system and non-functioning rolling stock."

For now, at least, the MTC wants to replace the oldest cars in its fleet, the 336 MR-63 cars, which operate on the green line and are the same age as the metro. The matter is being studied by the Quebec government.

"Without knowing anything about it, except for my general experience, they're pushing the envelope on age," said David Gunn, a well-known veteran of the transit industry who has run subway systems in New York, Toronto, Washington and Philadelphia.

Now president of Amtrak, Gunn said the 30-year life of subway cars can be extended through diligent maintenance and by heavily overhauling them at a key point. He noted, for instance, that London's Underground has cars that are over 50 years old on the Circle and District lines that work pretty well. Still, Gunn said, in a heavily travelled system like Montreal or Toronto, "by the time a car has reached 35, 40 years, they are getting very tired."

"There is a point that it becomes extremely expensive, and it's difficult to keep them operating."

Gunn suggests the MTC get an option to replace its MR-73 cars that run on the orange, blue and yellow lines. Built by Bombardier, the 423 MR-73 cars are 28 to 30 years old, making them slightly younger than the TTC's oldest subway cars.

Desrosiers said the MTC will certainly study the idea.

"It would make sense to say we'll raise an option within five years to have the same cars," he said, noting it costs about $50 million to start up a production.

So where will all the money come from?

Last year, the MTC and the Quebec Department of Transport undertook a joint study to see what would be the best way to finance the new cars, said Claude Dauphin, chairperson of the MTC's board. They looked at different options, including leasing cars, he said.

"They are aware of the urgency, and I'm convinced that they will go to the Treasury Board soon with that."

Under the recent federal-provincial gasoline tax revenue agreement, Montreal is slated to receive $657 million in infrastructure money, of which $367 million over five years would go to public transit.

"It won't solve everything, but at least it's amounts of money that we didn't have before," Dauphin said.

He suggests that more federal money, in addition to provincial funding, will be needed for Phase 2 and 3 of the metro renovation program, called Reno-Systemes. Ottawa invested in Montreal's metro for the first time during Phase 1, covering about 30 per cent of the costs, with Quebec picking up 45 per cent and the MTC and Metropolitan Transit Agency 12.5 per cent each.

For Phase 2, the MTC's Dauphin said he believes it is a matter of weeks or months before Quebec issues the final authorization.

Dauphin does not foresee commuters having to help offset the infrastructure investments through a fare hike.

"Users did their share in my opinion in the past four years," he said. "We had a lot of fare increases, but now they need a break."

Murtaza Haider, an assistant professor in McGill University's engineering faculty, questions why the provincial government decided to "throw away" $800 million on the metro extension to Laval, knowing the scale of investment that was needed to upgrade the existing system. "Why didn't they spend money on this rather than building an extension that almost no one on the island of Montreal will use?"

- - -

Last December, the metro system shut down temporarily when the internal telephone system, which is the same age as the metro, broke down for 80 minutes. Fortunately, they had spare parts from eastern Europe, said Desrosiers, because there aren't any such systems in North America anymore. (The telephone system is being replaced as part of the Phase 1 renovations.)

In June, a large section of the metro network was shut down for most of the workday after a cable under a platform caught fire at the Sherbrooke metro station and spread to other cables.

- - -

Robert Bergeron contends that 20 years ago metro riders never gave a thought to a system malfunction and were surprised when it happened. "Today, we expect a breakdown," said Bergeron, leader of the Projet Montreal municipal party. "See how it has changed in the minds of users?"

Desrosiers said the metro had an excellent year in 2004 when the number of rolling stock breakdowns dropped from 2003. However, so far this year, the rolling stock has broken down more than in 2004 for the corresponding period.

More malfunctions occur with the green-line cars. With their original motors from 1966, MR-63 cars travel about 170,000 kilometres between breakdowns, which Desrosiers said meets international standards. "We're still at that level, except that it's going down 10,000 kilometres a year."

By comparison, the younger MR-73 cars go more than double the distance of green-line cars - 350,000 kilometres - between breakdowns. The MTC's maintenance costs for rolling stock have risen from $28.6 million in 2000 to $35.3 million in 2004.

In Toronto, Rick Cornacchia, the deputy general manager, subway operations at the TTC, says their new subway cars are three times more reliable than their older cars. "That's the kind of benefit you really do get for the customers," he said.

Ridership on public transit in Montreal remains high. In fact, the public transit lobby group Canadian Urban Transit Association says it believes Montreal has the highest ridership per capita in North America. About 367,000 people here use the bus and metro system daily, according to a recent survey by the Metropolitan Transit Agency.

"It's still one of the world's good metro systems - reliable and safe," Dauphin insisted.

For coverage and service, Haider calls it one of the world's best systems. "It works very well. It's the envy of most North American operators, with the exception of Toronto, which is very exceptional," he said.

The Railway Technology Strategy Centre at Imperial College in London does benchmarking for 23 subway systems in the world, including the MTC and those in New York, London, Paris and Toronto.

The centre examines such elements as service, efficiency and covering costs, said Richard Anderson, the managing associate.

According to 2003 data, he said, the MTC metro cars, largely because they are well maintained, are among the most reliable of the systems the centre looks at in Europe and North America.

Desrosiers calls the MR-73 cars more reliable than most trains in North America and says they have kept the workhorse MR-63s in great shape through meticulous maintenance.

"Normally, a 39-year-old car is decrepit," he said.

Timeline: in 1966, Fanfare and a 20-Cent Ride

Oct. 14, 1966 : The Montreal metro is born. It consists of Line 1 - Atwater to Frontenac (the Beaudry and Frontenac stations opened two months later) - and Line 2, Henri Bourassa to Place d'Armes.

The fare is 20 cents.

February 1967: The Square Victoria and Bonaventure stations open.

Line 4 is launched from Berri de Montigny to Longueuil.

April 1967: The Ile Ste. Helene station opens in the nick of time on April 28 - the same day Expo '67 kicks off.

March 3, 1971: The metro runs all night for the first time during the so-called storm of the century.

(Seventeen people died in the blizzard.)

Dec. 9, 1971: Train driver dies when his train slams into a stationary one and catches fire at a switching area north of the Henri Bourassa station. The fire destroys 27 cars and a metro garage, causing $7 million in damage.

Jan. 23, 1974: About 1,200 metro riders escape a smoke-filled tunnel between the Laurier and Rosemont stations after a series of tire blowouts started a fire. The blaze destroys the nine-car train. No one is injured.

The metro subsequently underwent a series of safety improvements after an inquiry recommended nearly $70 million worth of changes. They included installing emergency power generators, additional fire extinguishers and improving communications.

Reflecting on those changes, former MUCTC board member Abe Limonchik told The Gazette in 1987: "It was a fortune, but the overhaul was done and Montreal now has one of the safest subways in the world."

1976: Line 1, the green line, is extended to Honore Beaugrand. An automatic train control system is launched on the line later that year. Among other things, the computerized system ensures adequate space between two trains on the network. The new fail-safe system was introduced mainly because of the 1971 accident. Carl Desrosiers, head of the MTC's metro network, said the system, which was avant-garde at the time, has proved to be extremely safe and reliable.

September 1978: The green line is extended to Angrignon.

April 1980: Line 2, the orange line, now extends to Place St. Henri.

September 1981: The orange line reaches the Snowdon station.

1982: The orange line is extended to Cote Ste. Catherine and then the Plamondon station.

January 1984 : The Du College station opens on the orange line.

1986: In June, Line 5, the blue line, is launched from De Castelneau to St. Michel. In October, the orange line is extended to one of its current endpoints - Cote Vertu station.

June 1987: The blue line extends to Parc.

January 1988: The blue line's Snowdon station opens.

June 2002: The Montreal Transit Corp. introduces three prototypes of reconfigured metro cars and seeks the public's feedback, as part of its bid to cope with increased ridership.

Dec. 2004: The internal telephone system, which is the same age as the metro, breaks down for 80 minutes, forcing the metro system to temporarily shut down.

June 20, 2005: Half the metro system is out of service for most of the workday when a cable under a platform catches fire at the Sherbrooke metro station and spreads to other cables.

July 2007: The three metro stations in Laval are expected to open.

samsonyuen

September 11th, 2005, 09:29 PM

^Good article. Why are it and Toronto's system so much better? I love the two systems, but I don't think it's head and shoulders above, say Washington's or Boston's systems?

hkskyline

September 13th, 2005, 05:45 AM

I've always thought the Metro was very well maintained. There wasn't rust on the ceilings; the stations are clean and spacious.

System 'among the worst' for aged
But improvements are coming for elderly and handicapped
BRENDA BRANSWELL
12 September 2005
Montreal Gazette

One thought haunts Grace Cawley every time she leaves her Longueuil home to travel to work on the metro.

"Is the escalator going to be working? - that's my fear," said Cawley, 64, who has a form of muscular dystrophy.

"And often it isn't."

For Cawley, negotiating a long flight of stairs - up or down - is an arduous process. Her bad knee hurts more going downstairs. Walking up them in the metro, which Cawley has also had to do, poses other problems. "The only thing I can do is rest my muscles for a bit and then go again - it's awful," said Cawley, an X-ray technician.

Cawley finds older people - and she doesn't consider herself one of them yet - are quite fearful about taking the metro. "I don't hear them talking about crime ... it's the physical set-up and the stairs and escalators that don't work."

With an aging population and the first of the baby boomers about to turn 60, concerns about the metro's accessibility are likely to face even more scrutiny in the coming years.

The physical layout also poses headaches for parents with strollers when escalators are out of service. For many disabled people, especially those confined to wheelchairs, the metro is still an impenetrable fortress. Unlike Toronto, where nearly one-third of the subway stations are wheelchair accessible, none of Montreal's 65 stations are so equipped.

Claude Dauphin, the chairperson of the Montreal Transit Corp.'s board, calls the city a pioneer with its wheelchair accessible buses.

When it comes to the metro, however, MTC officials readily acknowledge they lag behind. "We're among the worst," conceded Carl Desrosiers, executive director of the metro network at MTC.

Desrosiers noted that Montreal's youngest metro stations were conceived in the late 1970s and early '80s. At that time, society wasn't as concerned about the issue, he said.

Some improvements are on the horizon. The three new stations in Laval expected to open in July 2007 will be wheelchair accessible.

And Phase 2 of the MTC's $1.5-billion renovation program called Reno-Systemes proposes making six metro stations accessible. (Phase 1, which includes building a new control room, is underway. Phase 2 is waiting for the go-ahead from the Quebec government.)

A working committee that includes representatives for the disabled, the MTC and the Quebec Department of Transport suggested the stations, Dauphin said. They are: Henri Bourassa, Berri-UQAM, Bonaventure, Cote Vertu, Longueuil and Lionel Groulx.

With two superhospitals planned for Montreal, Dauphin suggested Vendome and Champs de Mars should be added to the list.

"It won't solve the problem ... it's the start," says Michael Magnaer, with the Office des personnes handicapes du Quebec. The government agency has been pushing for the metro to be accessible to the disabled for about 20 years now - and not just because it's an amazing transportation system, Magnaer said.

It's also to give them access to the underground city, he said. "From the point of view of a disabled person, it's an ideal place.

"There is no snow, it's easy to get around. ... There are lots of boutiques and stores and all."

It isn't simply a matter of installing elevators, Magnaer added. "It's the whole question of evacuation in the event of a fire, a terrorist attack - anything."

In 2007, Montreal is scheduled to host the 11th International Conference on Mobility and Transport for Elderly and Disabled Persons. Magnaer said he thinks having the event here might pressure the provincial government to act on the issue. Obviously, he said, a conference of that scope "won't hurt the cause."

- - -

Last year, Desrosiers wandered around the metro with his eyes blindfolded, clutching a cane. He did so at the invitation of the Regroupement des aveugles et amblyopes du Montreal metropolitain. The advocacy group has invited MTC officials into the metro to sensitize them to the difficulties faced by visually-impaired riders. Desrosiers experienced first-hand a trouble spot in the Berri-UQAM station caused by echoing sound where buskers played music.

"For a blind person, when there is an echo, they lose their sense of orientation," Desrosiers said. "I tried it and I walked into a wall." (They stopped musicians from playing there, he added.)

Last winter, the group submitted a report to the MTC that evaluated the metro's initial 26 stations. While it has not been made public, Yvon Provencher, a spokesperson for the group, said the major problems involve lighting, signage and inadequate visual markings on stairs and escalators to help orient the visually impaired.

"Henri Bourassa is a problem; it's too dark," Provencher said. Ditto for the Mont Royal station near the turnstiles.

He holds up the Sherbrooke station as a model for its lighting. "Everywhere in the station it's very, very well lit."

The group also wants reflective, textured yellow tiles placed near the edge of train platforms as a warning for visually impaired people.

The MTC, which has approached Quebec for financing, plans to install the tiles in stations as part of Phase 2 of its renovation program, Desrosiers said.

- - -

At the entrance to the McGill metro station, Gaelle Petit is the picture of efficiency. She quickly hoists a stroller over the turnstiles, then coaxes her 21/2-year-old daughter, Mia - resplendent in a purple poncho, jeans and a pink hair-band - into the station.

Mia can walk down the stairs now. But things haven't always been as easy. In the past when an escalator was out of service, Petit had to carry her in the stroller by positioning it on her hip as she walked down the stairs.

"It's quite heavy. It's especially not easy for the back," said Petit, 28.

- - -

At 85, Margaret Dugal still uses the metro every day and likes the system. Of late, when she goes to the Snowdon station, she has had to walk down more than 115 stairs because a new escalator is being installed.

"I don't enjoy it. Very often I have to wait and rest on each landing because I have a cane," said Dugal, who has had a hip and knee replacement.

"For us, it's a major preoccupation," Desrosiers said. "We're not very satisfied with our escalators now. We want them to be more reliable. That's why we're investing."

Phase 1 of the huge renovation program has included the installation of 43 new escalators. Desrosiers said they will be much more dependable than the ones they are replacing. "They are old escalators and we had a series that had a bad design, which were less reliable than the other ones."

He acknowledged they've run into problems with the brand-new escalators - among them the one at Guy-Concordia that Cawley noticed has already been out of service during her daily commute.

As with new trains, Desrosiers said, it's normal to have to iron out bugs with new escalators. "We had several problems. They are almost all solved now, and it will give us an escalator that is quite a bit more reliable."

In Boston, the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority has a telephone service that provides people who ride the T with updates on the status of elevators and escalators in subway stations.

With his heart problem, Moe Spanier would certainly like a heads-up about non-functioning escalators before he heads to a metro station.

Spanier, 73, had to walk up the stairs at the Cote Ste. Catherine station a few months ago and got to the top huffing and puffing.

"Why don't they put a sign on the bus telling you that the escalator going up is not working?" he asked.

For her part, Cawley plans to keep taking the metro as long as she can. The first time she called the MTC to complain about escalators not working, Cawley said, they apologized and were "very nice and gracious."

"They actually phoned me about once a year for the next three or four years to see if I thought things had improved much."

And have they?

"Not really," Cawley said with a laugh.

11x

October 1st, 2005, 04:48 PM

hkskyline

October 21st, 2005, 10:32 AM

Actually, the Metro isn't too bad in terms of cleanliness. I found a lot of discarded coffee cups and newspapers on Toronto's subway as well. The graffiti isn't as bad as before, and it's not too noticeable or annoying now.

I particularly like the humming sound of the rubber wheels. It's much more pleasant on the ear than metal wheels scratching on metal tracks.

habsfan

October 21st, 2005, 04:41 PM

"I particularly like the humming sound of the rubber wheels. It's much more pleasant on the ear than metal wheels scratching on metal tracks"

No kidding!!

MTLskyline

October 21st, 2005, 05:44 PM

What metros/subways did you all ride in?
I rode in:
Boston
Toronto
Montreal

Boston's are by far the best. The subway cars are air conditioned, and it covers the whole city well. (Although it seemed more like a train line, because most of it was above ground.) The Boston subway drivers are also friendly people, one guy kept telling me of this fish restaurant where they treat you like family (apparently they nag you to eat your vegtables, make sure you've had all you can eat, etc)

Toronto's wasn't all that memorable, just seemed bland, but was extremely efficient and took no time to get from where I was staying (I think the station was Spadina) all the way to Union in downtown...

Ours is the least efficient of the three, but is still quite efficient. It is the most unique, the cleanest and has a comical collection of characters who ride it (like those people who stare at things, etc).

Ashok

October 21st, 2005, 07:04 PM

^Nice Avatar

I have been in both Toronto's , and Montreal
I prefer Montreal...

princeofseoul

October 21st, 2005, 07:16 PM

What metros/subways did you all ride in?

Paris, Lyon, Toulouse, Barcelona, Tokyo, Osaka, Seoul, New-York, Boston, Montreal, Toronto.

From those I have seen, here's my take:
The prettiest (station&train design): Lyon, Montreal
The biggest (#stations, track length): Tokyo, Seoul
The weirdest (sometimes!): Seoul

Here's what I mean by "weirdest" ;):
http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=99709

habsfan

October 21st, 2005, 07:46 PM

I've taken the Subway in MOntreal(obviously) Toronto, New-York, and the elevated trains of Chicago.

Which do I prefer...probably New-York, just because every time I go to NYC, I fall in love with that city...the whole atmosphere is addictive.

marek bielski

October 23rd, 2005, 04:20 AM

Most interesting is propably Moscow's with stalinist architecture; it looks more like a museum than mass transportation network.

Montreal has some amazing stations - Peel is my favorite but also its share of dumps - Concordia. It is hard to compare Montreal cause it was heavily influenced by the 60s and if you like that sort of artsy design then you would love it. I find it original, definitely top 10 in the world.

malek

October 23rd, 2005, 05:18 AM

the rubber tires are needed because the metro has to climb some steep inclinations.

samsonyuen

October 23rd, 2005, 12:01 PM

I like the smooth ride and quietness from the rubber tires, and haven't really felt the bumpiness that it's supposed to bring. I'm curious as to what the three new stations will look like. It'll be nice to see some modern art in the stations.

marek bielski

October 24th, 2005, 12:36 AM

malek, great avatar! lol
finally I realized what it is

UrbanPhotoGuy

October 30th, 2005, 10:04 PM

The Subways i have been on are:

- Toronto (of course)
- Montreal
- New York
- Newark/Hoboken Path (PATH is actually a seperate subway from MTA)
- Washington DC
- Baltimore
- Philadelphia both PATCO and SEPTA (again a city with two seperate systems)

By far the most efficiant is Toronto and New York, however i LOVE Washington DC's subway, the stations remind me of montreal but the trains are super clean, air conditioned and super fast. Philly was by far the dumpiest system i have ever been on other than that of Baltimore.

CANUSA

October 31st, 2005, 01:25 AM

I just came back from visiting Montreal this weekend and although I have been there many times this is the first time I have ever taken the Metro while in the city.

I was really impressed at the cleanliness and brightness of the stations and every one waiting for and on the Metro acted orderly. I was equally impressed with the cleanliness on the Metro itself.

However something really needs to be done about people scratching or etching things onto the windows. It really gives the cars a dirty and unsophisticated look.There were huge scratchings in almost every window of each Metro I rode. Maybe they need some cameras on the Metro itself to deter people with a sign stating you are under surveillance(not sure if that would work). I can't imagine people would actually deface windows when the Metro is crowded so when is this done...late at night on the off-hours? Maybe during this time they could have security riding on the Metro to deter this activity....or maybe that would not be cost-effective but maybe cheaper than having to replace windows all the time.
Overall...very smooth ride...clean environment...good experience...but $2.50 for a one-way ride? Ouch, that seemed a bit hefty.

oshkeoto

October 31st, 2005, 11:17 AM

Ashok

October 31st, 2005, 02:08 PM

They should extend the time the last metro comes, I work till midnight, and always end up running to catch the last metro :bash:

I think its a positive thing to have the entire metro underground.

marek bielski

October 31st, 2005, 07:19 PM

I think its a positive thing to have the entire metro underground.

Chicago has light rail and metro integrated well, it is something Montreal needs to do to join western and eastern parts of the island. Remember there is no rail connection to the eas end (only the green line). More should be done for mass public trnasportation if Montreal wants to call itself most European of North American cities.

oshkeoto

November 1st, 2005, 01:39 AM

^ Chicago doesn't have any light rail. What are you referring to?

sky10

November 1st, 2005, 09:10 PM

Why montreal metro stations are decorated with art and sculptureto look beautiful from the beginning unlike toronto subway stations which are plain and functional?

Nouvellecosse

November 1st, 2005, 10:40 PM

I'm from Chicago, starting school at McGill. Montreal's metro is great in a lot of respects--very easy to understand, very fast, gets you pretty much anywhere you want in the central city. It has two major drawbacks compared to Chicago, though: 1. It stops running relatively early, before 1 on the weekends, where Chicago's main two lines run 24 hours and the others don't stop before 1:30 or 2:30, and 2. It's underground. I don't know what to do when I can't look out the window and see the city going by.

I've always thought of the Chicago system being outside as a drawback - for a northern city anyway. I mean, isn't it cold waiting on the station platforms in the winter time? Having it all inside seems much more practical and comfortable to me.

oshkeoto

November 2nd, 2005, 01:34 AM

^ I don't think anyone sees it that way. We just had a thing in the Chicago forum where a guy from DC asked if we'd trade the El for a subway system, and the answer was overwhelmingly no. I don't think you can appreciate how great riding above ground is unless you've done it. You're literally going through people's backyard alleys and over busy streets--you're taking a tour of the city every time you go anywhere. And as for the weather bit of it, there are pretty strong heat lamps at every station that are on during the winter. Besides which, Chicago's general attitude towards the cold is that it keeps the riffraff out.

marek bielski

November 2nd, 2005, 01:52 AM

^ Chicago doesn't have any light rail. What are you referring to?

L-line in Chicago
got relatives in the city, found it easy to get around

marek bielski

November 2nd, 2005, 01:56 AM

Why montreal metro stations are decorated with art and sculptureto look beautiful from the beginning unlike toronto subway stations which are plain and functional?

supposedly Montreal officials working on the project invited early on artists and made their input as important as that of any engineer. And it was the 60's when city was undergoing huge modernization for Expo 67 and no one was counting the money ;)

oshkeoto

November 2nd, 2005, 02:10 AM

"L-line in Chicago
got relatives in the city, found it easy to get around"

Oh. The El system is still considered heavy rail, just not underground. But yeah.

malek

November 2nd, 2005, 09:40 PM

the window scratching is 4-5 years old, I remember when the windows were not scratched... and then in the space of one year, almost every window was scratched...

wtf happened?!?!?

CANUSA

November 2nd, 2005, 11:50 PM

I like Montreal's Metro being completely underground... Less noise, less traffic aboveground, one less thing to have to contend with at street level.

I have been to Chicago several times and have mixed feelings about their rail system. I agree that being above ground is definitely a lot more scenic, especially in such an architectural city as Chicago but the noise from the rails being at street-level is unnerving. I also find elevated lines, no matter what city, rather unattractive and obtrusive to the city landscape especially as they age and become dirty and rusty. They break up and cut through the cityscape, cast shadows and are unsightly.

I don't recall the heat lamps in Chicago, I do remember freezing my butt off waiting with just minimal roof coverage...maybe I was in the wrong area.

Here in Boston, we have the oldest subway system in the United States. It is very efficient, never a long wait due to the frequency of subways and the cars are fairly clean but the subway lines do not run late enough. The stop time for the various lines runs from just after midnight until 1AM. Some of the stations themselves are rather dinghy and could use some sprucing up and brighter lights. I have been to many cities and taken many different subways and I have to say for some reason Boston's is the smelliest. The only relief is from the smell from Dunkin' Donuts Cofee brewing and popcorn stands they have down there.

I do like the free entertainment that you often encounter while waiting for your ride. There are often people performing(singing, playing instruments...Tracy Chapman used to play the subway lines in Boston before she hit it big) Then there are the little mice...some of the stations have little mice that come out from holes in the ground on the track...people sometimes throw popcorn down and they take it and you always know when the train is coming because they stand up on their feet...look around and then scatter...less than a minute later the train arrives. OK, OK, I know what you are thinking...mice aren't exactly entertainment.
CANUSA

oshkeoto

November 3rd, 2005, 12:23 AM

"I have been to Chicago several times and have mixed feelings about their rail system. I agree that being above ground is definitely a lot more scenic, especially in such an architectural city as Chicago but the noise from the rails being at street-level is unnerving. I also find elevated lines, no matter what city, rather unattractive and obtrusive to the city landscape especially as they age and become dirty and rusty. They break up and cut through the cityscape, cast shadows and are unsightly."

Anyone from Chicago would tell you they get a warm fuzzy feeling whenever they see El tracks cutting across a street, and that we think 100-year-old gritty tracks add character pretty much wherever we go. There is literally no other place in the world where you have something like Wabash or Wells in the Loop, a skyscraper canyon with these great old train tracks running straight down the middle. It's fantastic.

Poulin

November 3rd, 2005, 06:25 PM

Voilà ce à quoi les stations devraient ressembler, selon le site de l'ATM.

Station Cartier:
http://www.metrodemontreal.com/orange/cartier/conception.jpg
http://www.metrodemontreal.com/orange/cartier/plan.jpg

Station de la Concorde:
http://www.metrodemontreal.com/orange/delaconcorde/conception.jpg
http://www.metrodemontreal.com/orange/delaconcorde/plan.jpg

Station Montmorency:
http://www.metrodemontreal.com/orange/montmorency/conception.jpg
http://www.metrodemontreal.com/orange/montmorency/conception-complex.jpg
http://www.metrodemontreal.com/orange/montmorency/plan.jpg

rise_against

November 3rd, 2005, 06:43 PM

http://photoimg.enjoyjapan.naver.com/view/47/43/enjoyjapan_12/8000/7465.jpg wtf???

Poulin

November 3rd, 2005, 07:01 PM

That's in Seoul, right?

TooFar

November 3rd, 2005, 11:55 PM

Lifted from here (www.metrodemontreal.com)

FUTURE PLANS
The plans for the metro network have changed greatly since its inception. When the metro was first opened, some plans called for the opening of a spaghetti of 112 km of lines all over eastern Montreal Island. These plans have all been shelved.

After the moratorium on further metro construction in the mid-80s and the abandonment of the Bureau des transports métropolitains (BTM), metro development has been at a standstill and has not kept anything near pace with other cities, especially ones in Europe. (Madrid, for example, has constructed nearly 60 kilometres in the last two years - nearly the equal of our entire system.)

Two plans to serve Montréal-Nord, for example, were dropped: the one depicted on many metro maps in the early 90s, to build a line from metro Pie-IX to Rivière des Prairies; and another plan, to extend the blue line northeastward beyond Saint-Michel. There were to be five additional stations: Provencher, Robert, Couture, Amiens, and Amos. Although this never took place, it is nonetheless reflected in the track maps on the control panels at the Metro Control Centre. This very dense neighbourhood remains inadequately served by the metro.

Another project, to extend the Côte-Vertu end of the orange line to boul. De Salaberry, was given the go-ahead, but was shelved due to the moratorium.

For more information on past plans, please see the article on the evolution of the metro in the History section.

http://www.metrodemontreal.com/info/planmap.jpg
LAVAL EXTENSION
Cartier - De La Concorde - Montmorency
The STM, AMT, and Ministère des Transports du Québec (MTQ) have approved a project to extend the Henri-Bourassa end of the orange line into Laval. Construction has begun, and the project is slated to be completed in January 2006.

The line will include three new stations on 5,2 km of track.

Cartier station, situated at the corner of boul. Cartier ouest and boul. des Laurentides, will include a 525-place parking lot, a metropolitan bus terminal, and a taxi stand. See: Cartier
De La Concorde station, situated at the corner of boul. de la Concorde and av. Ampère, will include a new intermodal station on the Montreal—Blainville commuter train line, a taxi stand, and parking for cars and bicycles. See: De La Concorde
Montmorency station, the terminus, will be situated in front of CÉGEP Montmorency. It will include a bus terminal, a tail track and train garage, a 2 715-place parking lot, bicycle parking and a taxi stand. See: Montmorency.
Some remodeling is also planned for Henri-Bourassa metro. A side track and third platform (direction Laval) will permit trains to alternate between stopping at Henri-Bourassa and continuing to Laval.
Description of the Laval metro project (AMT, in French), including maps, station plans, and a newsletter.

Photos of the sites

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ANJOU EXTENSION
Pie-IX - Viau - Lacordaire - Langelier - Galeries d'Anjou - Jarry / Roi-René

On 16 April 2002, the AMT released the results of a technical feasibility study on the extension of the blue line east to Anjou. The study called for six new stations on 6,2 km, ending at a large intermodal terminus near the Anjou interchange. This extension would serve the boroughs of Anjou, Montréal-Nord, Rivière-des-Prairies, and Saint-Léonard, as well as the very congested boulevard Pie-IX and buses serving the east end, Laval, and the north shore. However, the borough of Anjou favours another plan which would put the terminus south of the Metropolitan Autoroute at Châteauneuf and Roi-René, in order to spur development in that area.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SOUTH SHORE EXTENSION
Joliette - Saint-Jean - CÉGEP Édouard-Montpetit - Rolland-Therrien
Another project being studied is the extension of the the yellow line to CÉGEP Édouard-Montpetit in Longueuil. The RTL's website has a description of this project. This, along with the rapid transit link to the south shore via the Champlain Bridge ice boom and light rail on Ave. du Parc and the east end, has been classed as a "priority initiative" by the MTQ, and is part of the AMT's seven-point plan for reducing traffic on the bridges to the South Shore.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OTHER PROPOSALS
Additional extensions have also been proposed, including prolonging the orange line from Côte-Vertu to the Bois-Franc commuter train station; a bifurcation of the Anjou extension of the blue line towards the southeast; extending the yellow line from Berri-UQAM to McGill to reduce congestion on the same portion of the green line; and opening a station on the yellow line in the Old Port by the quai de l'Horloge.

For more information, please see the provincial Transport Ministry's greater Montreal area transportation management plan and the accompanying map (in PDF format).

marek bielski

November 4th, 2005, 01:23 AM

^^ thanks for sharing; those are ambitious plans but with 800m$ pricetag on Laval extension are the tax payers be willing to flip the bill?
The extension of blue line is most likely I think. There is a huge area east of St.Michel which is not served by the metro or trains. This might help in improving the standard of living in Montreal-Nord which has seen its share of bad news recently ...

oberon

November 4th, 2005, 01:42 AM

Hmmm... I wonder what's the point of extending the yellow line to McGill. Though I definitely think a station in Old Montreal (Bonsecours) would be really good. As for other lines. I remember I read that the Charest government had suspended other plans for metro expansion because of the cost overrun? I think they even refused to fund new metro cars since they came to power until recently. They are now more open about that. There were some talks that the Quebec government would finally fund to replace those 40 year old cars on the green line, but they won't be all ready until they turn 50!

princeofseoul

November 4th, 2005, 02:42 AM

http://photoimg.enjoyjapan.naver.com/view/47/43/enjoyjapan_12/8000/7465.jpg wtf???

They decorate the Seoul subway this way sometimes without warning :D

habsfan

November 4th, 2005, 05:18 PM

"thanks for sharing; those are ambitious plans but with 800m$ pricetag on Laval extension are the tax payers be willing to flip the bill?"

True that the Laval extension was ridiculously expensive, but i think the high cost was mostly due to the fact that they had to dig under the river.

A much needed extension of the metro system eastwards shouldn't cost as much(hopefully). If they could keep the cost down under 500million$ for a 6.5KM stretch(with 6 new stations) I say it is more than worth it.

Tell you the truth, any extension of the Metro should be welcomed by everyone as a good thing. Even the proposed extension on the south shore is a good one. People have a tendancy of thinking that the south shore communities are all a bunch of suburbs with single family homes and bungalows, which isn't always true!

The area they plan on extending the Metro is actually quite dense(Unlike Laval!) and could use a subway. Not to mention there are lots of students in the area(Cégep Édouard Montpetit, Université de Sherbrooke, UQAM(Campus de la Montérégie) Champlain College.)

malek

November 4th, 2005, 05:25 PM

Habsfan, did you compare the price tag of that 800M$ extension to other subway projects elsewhere?

It was actually averagely priced, even lower (per km) than the latest extension in Toronto.

People think about the bogus initial 180M$ price tag then say 800M$ is expensive.

If the politicians at the time were honnest they would've told us the real numbers (they had them). But then people would have screamed about the project price... and no metro.

Guy Chevrette, transport minister at the time has acknowledged he knew the real price at the moment but the govt decided to go ahead and give bogus numbers (they were based on a pre-project study with no engineering merit whatsoever).

TooFar

November 4th, 2005, 05:44 PM

Though I definitely think a station in Old Montreal (Bonsecours) would be really good.
I agree, this should be a priority. Old Montreal is a very popular destination however it is disconnected somewhat from the rest of the cities public transport system. This station would be appreciated by locals and tourist alike. As the line is already there somewhere, building a station should not be overly expensive.
mmmm.... This sounds like a mission.

malek

November 4th, 2005, 05:49 PM

On a related note, here are the extensions to the Commuter rail system:

http://www.transport2000qc.org/dossiers/train_banlieue/carte2.gif

The complete network would look like that:
http://www.transport2000qc.org/dossiers/train_banlieue/carte3.gif

These extensions will happen, they're pushed forward very agressivly by the AMT and I believe we will see them way before any other metro extension.

habsfan

November 4th, 2005, 07:53 PM

I have no doubt that these commuter train line extensions will happen before any metro extension.

Have you seen the numbers for the increasee in ridership on the 5 existing lines?

In the past 5 years, all have seen their numbers rise by over 100%, some(St-hilaire, have experienced 390% growth)

These commuter train line extensions are gonna happen soon.

citoyen

November 5th, 2005, 01:17 AM

As much as I would love to see those metro expanssions, I think the most pressing issue right now is to decongest Av. du Parc with either a metro (yellow line north from the proposed St. Laurent station to Parc station on the blue line) or a streetcar. There is no metro going north between the two branches of the orange line, it's obvious that the Mile-End, Outremont and the Petite-Patrie are in dire need of transportation other than the 80 bus on Parc. If you've ever taken it in rush hour you would see what a hellish experience it is!

Tosco

November 5th, 2005, 07:33 PM

How is the Laval metro-line extension construction going?

malek

November 5th, 2005, 08:22 PM

the tunnel is finished, they started putting down rails, electronic systems and the stations are above ground... i should go take pics but its not that easy, there's a large area restricted by fences.

I'll try to borrow a zoom to get the goods.

Minato ku

November 5th, 2005, 10:44 PM

for History

First subway with rubber tires
premier metro sur pneus
MP 51 Paris 1951
http://www.amtuir.org/dossiers/metro_paris/cmp_1949_1967/images/22105_cmp_1952_09_03_lilas_n_mp51_ratp.jpg

first commercial subway with rubber tires
premier metro commercial sur pneus
MP 55 Paris 1956
http://images.google.fr/url?q=http://www.amtuir.org/dossiers/metro_paris/cmp_1949_1967/images/30764_1956_11_13_cmp_chatelet_11_ratp.jpg

skyscraper03

November 8th, 2005, 05:16 AM

I'm studing in Toronto City. I'm from East Asia. :)
I like Canada so much. And I'd like to go to Montreal someday.
As I have seen threads in here, I noticed that Montreal is a really nice city.

malek

November 8th, 2005, 10:22 AM

you're welcome ;)

oberon

November 19th, 2005, 06:30 AM

STM is taking seats off métro cars running on Orange, Blue and Yellow lines. This will increase the capacity of each car from 100 to 110 passengers. They are also installing new grab bars to the trains. The new seats look like those on green line, though the colour is different, and there are single forward facing seats on one side of the train.

The Radio-Canada report is here (http://www.radio-canada.com/regions/Montreal/2005/11/18/007-metro-wagons.shtml)

The English text is here, but without the picture (http://www.cbc.ca/montreal/story/qc-metro20051118.html)

Ashok

November 19th, 2005, 07:40 PM

these must be one of the prototypes, its about time

York Transit

November 19th, 2005, 07:56 PM

The colors are ugly. Blue seats with orange walls... :runaway:

Nouvellecosse

November 20th, 2005, 02:05 PM

On a related note, here are the extensions to the Commuter rail system:

http://www.transport2000qc.org/dossiers/train_banlieue/carte2.gif

The route marked in pink looks kind of awkward for the commuters traveling from downtown to L'Assomption. Isn't there any rail line running north from downtown parallel to the St. Lawrence?

malek

November 20th, 2005, 11:17 PM

yeah it looks akward. There might be some rails going along the river but they might be used by freight (port of montreal is there).

Plus wouldn't there be a better service if a train passed in the middle of the island instead of and edge?

hkskyline

November 25th, 2005, 06:48 AM

Details of Montreal subway on computer of man questioned in Madrid bombings
23 November 2005
The Canadian Press

MADRID, Spain (AP) - Police found detailed data on Spanish trains, a map of the London Underground and information on Montreal's subway system on the personal computer of a Moroccan questioned in the Madrid terror bombings, a Spanish newspaper has reported.

Abdelhak Chergui, a 32-year-old Moroccan who studies telecommunications in Spain, was arrested in May along with his brother, Abdelkhalak

He was questioned by Judge Juan del Olmo, the magistrate leading the investigation of the March 11, 2004, bombings that killed 191 people and wounded more than 1,500 people.

At the time, police said the two were suspected of helping to finance the attacks and providing weapons to people accused of carrying them out.

However, Del Olmo released them for lack of evidence after ordering them to surrender their passports.

Police kept investigating Abdelhak Chergui, and in an examination of his personal computer found detailed information on the Madrid, London and Montreal systems, El Pais reported Monday. It quoted a police report submitted to the judge in September.

Police declined to comment on the newspaper report.

El Pais did not say if Spanish police suspected Chergui of any role in the deadly London terror attacks of July or if Spanish authorities planned to bring him in for more questioning.

The Madrid attacks were claimed by militants who said they acted on al-Qaida's behalf to avenge the presence of Spanish troops in Iraq under then-prime minister Jose Maria Aznar, a conservative.

Socialists led by Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero won a general election held three days after the bombings. Zapatero withdrew the troops shortly after taking power.

A total of 26 people are in jail in connection with the Madrid bombings, but around 80 more who were questioned and released are still considered suspects.

De Snor

November 26th, 2005, 09:47 PM

Le plan Horizon 2020

http://www.emdx.org/rail/metro/Images/tHorizon2020.gif

Nouvellecosse

November 26th, 2005, 10:14 PM

^ That look awesome. Is that actually going to be implimented or is it just wishful thinking?

MTLskyline

November 27th, 2005, 01:52 AM

^ That look awesome. Is that actually going to be implimented or is it just wishful thinking?
wishful thinking

MTLskyline

November 27th, 2005, 01:53 AM

Details of Montreal subway on computer of man questioned in Madrid bombings

That is scary, I don't like the fact that the first two have already been attacked, only leaving us. At least he's behind bars, but I'm sure there are others plotting such attacks. This country is lazy on public security. :bash:

samsonyuen

November 29th, 2005, 10:34 PM

Good for the ATM extensions! When will it be built?

hkskyline

December 14th, 2005, 04:28 AM

MTC hikes cost of passes, turns to anti-fraud system
13 December 2005
Montreal Gazette

The Montreal Transit Corp. is raising transit fares in January - the ninth hike in as many years - and installing electronic fare boxes to catch riders who shortchange the system.

The adult monthly pass goes from $61 to $63; the reduced monthly pass will cost $33.75, up from $32.50.

Even with fare increases, Montreal's transit system is still a bargain, Marvin Rotrand, vice-chairperson of the public transit board, said yesterday.

"We're among the most affordable transit commissions in North America," he said yesterday at a news conference to unveil the agency's $864.4-million budget for 2006.

The budget includes $5.6 million for service upgrades, including 12,000 hours of additional bus services in Pointe aux Trembles and St. Laurent.

But transit officials also forecast a budget shortfall next year of $32 million. Board chairperson Claude Dauphin blamed it on rising energy costs, employee wage and benefit increases, and expanded services for adapted-transit users.

But a public transit advocate says the excuses are beginning to wear thin.

"We're very disappointed," said Normand Parisien of the Transport 2000 lobby group.

"With the federal government giving a share of gas taxes to cities for public transit, we were expecting a better deal for commuters."

The steady rise in fares - the cost of a monthly pass has jumped 40 per cent since 1997 - is tough on low-income families in Montreal, Parisien noted.

Hotel chambermaid Sara Berrios says it's hard enough to pay for a monthly pass without seeing the price go up every year.

"In itself, $2 isn't that much money," said Berrios, who commutes downtown every day from east-end St. Michel. "But when you raise the fare by $2 every year, it gets expensive.

"It's hard when everything, including groceries, keeps going up in price."

Transit authorities say their hands are tied: they depend on commuters for 45 per cent of their budget.

As it is, the fare hikes next year will offset $10.6 million in higher diesel and natural gas costs, but that still leaves the transit company $22 million short for 2006, Dauphin said.

The city of Montreal, despite its own budget problems, has promised to jack up its contribution by $10 million next year, for a total of $278 million.

But the provincial government has made no such promise.

"A couple of years ago, Quebec told us our fares were too low, and if we increased the fares they would help us," Dauphin noted. "We're still waiting for that new financial framework."

Dauphin said he hopes Quebec comes up with a bailout package and new funding sources in its budget in February 2006.

In the meanwhile, the transit agency is going after commuters who cheat the system by tossing insufficient change into fare boxes or using the wrong ticket.

The agency is to install new electronic fare boxes in all 1,600 buses by the end of 2006.

Automatic readers will be added to the boxes when a smart-card fare system is introduced, possibly by 2008.

The anti-fraud system will pay for itself within seven years, transit authorities say, and eventually bring in $20 million in additional annual revenue.

Inspectors will be hired to make spot checks - red lights and beeping sounds on the fare boxes signal insufficient payment - and hand out tickets for infractions.

But the system will rely as much on peer pressure as getting tough with scofflaws.

"If the red light goes on, all the other passengers see it," transit board member Dominic Perri said. "You might do it once or twice, but it would take a very special kind of person to cheat the system on a regular basis."

Monthly Pass Less Expensive Here

City One time (cash) Individual ticket Monthly pass

Toronto $2.50 $2.00 $98.75
Montreal $2.50 $1.92 $63.00
Ottawa $3.00 $1.90 $71.25
Vancouver $2.25 $1.80 $69.00
New York* $2.32 $1.86 $88.16

* U.S. prices converted to Canadian funds, $1 U.S. equals $1.16 Canadian, as of Dec. 8, 2005.

Source: Montreal Transit Corp., Toronto Transit Commission, OC Transpo, Vancouver Transit Authority, Metropolitan Transportation Authority, Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority

New Transit Prices for 2006

Monthly Pass Regular fare: $63.00
Change from 2005: +$2.00

Reduced fare: $33.75
Change from 2005: +$1.25

Weekly pass Regular fare: $18.50
Change from 2005: +50 cents

Reduced fare: $9.75
Change from 2005: +50 cents

Tickets (6) Regular fare: $11.50
Change from 2005: +25 cents

Reduced fare: $6.00
Change from 2005: +25 cents

Single fare Regular fare: $2.50
Change from 2005: -

Reduced fare: $1.50
Change from 2005: +25 cents

Source: Montreal Transit Corp.

malek

December 14th, 2005, 06:29 AM

The next commuter train line will be from Repentigny/Pointes Aux trembles/Downtown.

I believe everything is ready. Quebec and Ottawa are arguing about the money. Ottawa don't want to spend money destined to reduce emissions in regards to the Kyoto protocol over a commuter train.

Tosco

December 20th, 2005, 12:04 AM

Who erased message 70?

(No, Im not a terrorist.)

Ashok

December 21st, 2005, 09:13 PM

A Total of 423 Redesigned Metro Cars will be put into service within the next 36 months.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y101/Ilovemtl2/1y.jpg

malek

December 23rd, 2005, 10:33 AM

we're on month away from seeing a new commuter line being announced.

Cost: 350M$, using existing railroads but building new train stations.

Timeframe: 2 years from the time the project is announced.

It's the pink one on this map:
http://www.transport2000qc.org/dossiers/train_banlieue/carte2.gif

Actual commuter train map:
http://www.transport2000qc.org/dossiers/train_banlieue/carte1.gif

Future commuter train map:
http://www.transport2000qc.org/dossiers/train_banlieue/carte3.gif

Nouvellecosse

December 23rd, 2005, 04:24 PM

^ So what about the brown line? (Forgive me if it's already explained somewhere in the details lol)

malek

December 23rd, 2005, 07:00 PM

I don't know anything about it... but the good thing is that these projected lines use existing railroad, so its "very cheap" to put a new line in place.

10 years ago, we had 2 lines only, blue and red, now we have 5... i think at this pace, the brown should be live soon enough.

habsfan

December 23rd, 2005, 09:30 PM

10 years ago, we had 2 lines only, blue and red, now we have 5... i think at this pace, the brown should be live soon enough.

true enough!

hkskyline

December 30th, 2005, 07:21 PM

Pettigrew mugged in Montreal subway
Last Updated Fri, 30 Dec 2005 05:55:21 EST
CBC News

Foreign Affairs Minister Pierre Pettigrew was attacked in a Montreal subway station Wednesday night as a man tried to steal his cellphone.

A 19-year-old bystander jumped in to help Pettigrew fend off his attacker.

Both Pettigrew and his Good Samaritan suffered minor injuries. Pettigrew's cellphone was returned to him after the incident.

A man has been charged with aggravated theft and has undergone a psychiatric evaluation.

Pettigrew's office told French-language media that it wasn't rare for the minister to take public transportation without bodyguards.

MTLskyline

December 31st, 2005, 01:36 AM

^I wonder if the attacker had any idea of who he was dealing with... If he wasnt a cabinet minister, he would be a really easy target for any robber/attacker...
http://www.thehammer.ca/content/2004/0805/pettigrew_iran_front.jpg

marek bielski

December 31st, 2005, 01:40 AM

^^ lol

why is that? The pretty boy there was not protected by his goons. He had to save his own ass ;)

PS. anybody knows where this happened?

oberon

December 31st, 2005, 02:38 AM

poor guy! I hope he won't stop using the métro just because of this incident.

btw, it happened in Côte-Vertu

samsonyuen

December 31st, 2005, 01:53 PM

What's the big deal? I'm sure this happens to ordinary people too...

MTLskyline

December 31st, 2005, 11:35 PM

^ Yes, early 2005 saw lots of old people becoming targets, didnt hear about that kind of thing for a while though until Pettigrew

edubejar

January 5th, 2006, 06:42 PM

your pictures missed the real metro. eg. etched windows, grafitti, and piles of newspapers taht lazy ass riders couldnt be bothered carrying to a garbage can.

Money won't fix the metro, only a change in mentallity will.

PS and the ride on rubber is the noisiest Ive experienced anywhere. I miss you TTC.

Yes, rubber-tire metros CAN be noisy in the sense that they have a constant (humming?) sound where as steel-tire metros tend to make noise only on the turns. But when steel-tire metros make noise, they really make noise, and it's a much stronger, piercing, shrining sound, whereas the rubber-tire sound, although constant, is much smoother, and faints in most people's head, precisely because it's constant.

MTLskyline

March 12th, 2006, 02:02 AM

I recently went to London, England and had a great time. The one thing that stood out the most: Their efficient Underground system. They have 275, and trains arriving every 4 minutes at most stations, sometimes more, sometimes less frequent. You can take the tube to the airport, or nearly anywhere.

Montreal could use a real expansion of its system. The Laval metro extention is a start. A Trudeau-airport station would be nice, as would a station in old Montreal, or a few more stations on the south shore.

Only problem is it'll cost tons to make these sorts of improvements to our metro. Possibilities are having a company handle the expansion, to keep costs lower, then pass the bill onto motorists with tolls. This idea may be unpopular at first but the system is so efficient in London, you do not need a car. Nearly every region of the city is covered.

I'm not entirely sure this would be worth doing, but maybe it should be considered?

samsonyuen

March 12th, 2006, 02:17 AM

MTLskyline

March 12th, 2006, 06:41 PM

^ Spoiled Londoners :P

There was talk of massive investments in Montreal-area transit. A commuter train serving the east end, an Anjou metro extention, there was something else I don't remember at the moment.

I found this on the great site, metrodemontreal.com (it was also posted by Toofar earlier on in this topic, just thought I'd bring it back):
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/5076/planmap5bv.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Lime= under construction
Red= priority initiative
Yellow= feasability study completed
Magenta= proposals

The Anjou extention was the only one they mentioned last week, and also seemed to have most importance a few years ago when this map was made:

ANJOU EXTENSION
Pie-IX - Viau - Lacordaire - Langelier - Galeries d'Anjou - Jarry / Roi-René

On 16 April 2002, the AMT released the results of a technical feasibility study on the extension of the blue line east to Anjou. The study called for six new stations on 6,2 km, ending at a large intermodal terminus near the Anjou interchange. This extension would serve the boroughs of Anjou, Montréal-Nord, Rivière-des-Prairies, and Saint-Léonard, as well as the very congested boulevard Pie-IX and buses serving the east end, Laval, and the north shore. However, the borough of Anjou favours another plan which would put the terminus south of the Metropolitan Autoroute at Châteauneuf and Roi-René, in order to spur development in that area.

These ones seem to have a lower chance of construction now:

SOUTH SHORE EXTENSION
Joliette - Saint-Jean - CÉGEP Édouard-Montpetit - Rolland-Therrien

Another project being studied is the extension of the the yellow line to CÉGEP Édouard-Montpetit in Longueuil. The RTL's website has a description of this project. This, along with the rapid transit link to the south shore via the Champlain Bridge ice boom and light rail on Ave. du Parc and the east end, has been classed as a "priority initiative" by the MTQ, and is part of the AMT's seven-point plan for reducing traffic on the bridges to the South Shore.

OTHER PROPOSALS

Additional extensions have also been proposed, including prolonging the orange line from Côte-Vertu to the Bois-Franc commuter train station; a bifurcation of the Anjou extension of the blue line towards the southeast; extending the yellow line from Berri-UQAM to McGill to reduce congestion on the same portion of the green line; and opening a station on the yellow line in the Old Port by the quai de l'Horloge.

For more information, please see the provincial Transport Ministry's greater Montreal area transportation management plan and the accompanying map (in PDF format). http://www1.mtq.gouv.qc.ca/en/regions/montreal/plan/index.asp

MTLskyline

March 13th, 2006, 03:33 AM

Much less than four minutes usually. I'm grumpy when I have to wait two in rush hour!

Has there been any recent news on the line to Anjou recently (or any other expansion)?

Or talk of a station to Vieux-Montréal?
What's up with
Mind the Gap
The voice on the intercom repeats it like every 2 seconds when the train's doors are open...

malek

March 13th, 2006, 07:32 AM

the topmost priority is a commuter line from the est suburbs to downtown = 253M$ (I believe we should have an announcement this year... maybe on Mars 23rd)

the second topmost priority is the blue line extension, above 1B$.

samsonyuen

March 15th, 2006, 11:16 PM

^So if the Anjou extension be for >$1B for 6km, it'd be about the same as the Spadina line extension in Toronto. Would it be overground or underground?

Mind the Gap is also in Toronto, though they don't say it as much as in London. It's not said on every line, every station. Some stations, like Bank on the Central line have curved platforms, so when the train comes in, there are sometimes gaps between the curve of the platform and the straight edge of a train, as much as a foot, and occasionally, there's a few inches of a step up too! That's why. Some stations also have a step up. I can think of a few stations on the Piccadilly line where the train is a few inches below the platform level. I guess they say it even where it's fairly obvious to protect themselves from lawsuits.

malek

March 20th, 2006, 08:21 AM

^So if the Anjou extension be for >$1B for 6km, it'd be about the same as the Spadina line extension in Toronto. Would it be overground or underground?

underground bien sur :)

hkskyline

March 30th, 2006, 06:01 AM

Alstom willing to work on railcars with rival
Boss wants no war with Bombardier
29 March 2006
The Globe and Mail

MONTREAL -- The president of Alstom SA's transportation unit said yesterday he isn't interested in a lobbying war against Bombardier Inc. over a lucrative contract to build the Montreal subway's new generation of railcars and offered as one option a partnership with his rival.

Pointing out that France's Alstom and Montreal-based Bombardier often collaborate on train contracts around the world, Philippe Mellier said at a news conference: “I am perfectly prepared to work with Bombardier.

“We're not hegemonic. We're not arrogant.”

He added that Alstom would be willing to locate some of the work — such as final assembly — at Bombardier's plant in La Pocatière, about 135 kilometres east of Quebec City on the south shore of the St. Lawrence River.

The La Pocatière plant is the biggest industrial employer in the region. In 1974, it assembled the 423 additional Métro cars needed when the subway system was expanded in connection with the 1976 Olympic Games. The facility now employs about 800 people. At its peak, about 1,400 worked there.

Bombardier Transportation spokeswoman Hélène Gagnon said in an interview yesterday that André Navarri — president of the division — will respond to Mr. Mellier's comments today during Bombardier's presentation of its fourth-quarter and year-end financial results.

The issue of whether the Quebec government should bypass the public tendering process and negotiate directly with Bombardier for the $1.2-billion contract to replace the aging fleet of 336 Métro cars has been making headlines lately.

Proponents of direct negotiations argue that La Pocatière faces a significant work slowdown and the loss of hundreds of jobs within the next few years if no new contracts are won, and that a public tender process would take too long.

Alstom, which provided the initial design for the Métro's first fleet of rubber-wheeled cars in the 1960s, has been arguing that it would be unfair to end users and taxpayers to not call for public tenders and that avoiding competitive bidding would be highly unusual.

Quebec provides two-thirds of the financing for new rolling stock for the province's mass transit systems.

Mr. Mellier also said yesterday that Alstom is way ahead of Bombardier with its state-of-the-art line of subway cars, and that they could be up and running in Montreal by the end of 2009 or early 2010.

“It's stupid to think that if we go [to direct negotiations with Bombardier] it's going to be quicker,” Mr. Mellier said, pointing out that Bombardier must go through a lengthy process of designing the new car, building a prototype and working out the kinks, among other time-consuming steps.

He added that Alstom's technologically advanced subway cars will also yield hundreds of millions of dollars in maintenance savings over their 30- to 40-year lifespan.

Alstom plans to present a detailed proposal to Quebec's Economic Development Minister Raymond Bachand within the next few days, he said.

mr.x

March 30th, 2006, 06:07 AM

Montreal's new trains would look very similar to the new Torino metro trains.

http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/turin/images/VAL208.jpg

hkskyline

March 30th, 2006, 04:21 PM

Bombardier rejects Alstom bid for subway car joint venture
Bloomberg News
30 March 2006

Bombardier Inc. rejected an offer from French rival Alstom SA to join forces for a $1-billion order to build subway cars for Montreal's public transit authority. "To cooperate, there would have to be added value," Bombardier executive vice-president Andre Navarri said yesterday on a conference call with reporters. "We have the best technology. I don't think Alstom brings anything today here in Quebec." Philippe Mellier, president of Alstom's transport unit, told reporters in Montreal yesterday that the Paris-based company was "ready to cooperate" with Bombardier on the Montreal contract. Societe de Transport de Montreal, the agency that runs the city's public transport system, needs to replace more than 300 subway cars in the next few years. Bombardier chief executive Laurent Beaudoin last month urged the Quebec government to award the order to the Montreal-based company without tender to help preserve jobs in the province. Mr.

Navarri, a former Alstom executive who now runs Bombardier's train unit from Berlin, said Mr. Mellier's comments that the Canadian company would have to design brand-new cars for Montreal are "flagrant lies." Montreal's subway cars, like those of Paris and Mexico City, run on rubber tires. "We are No. 1 in tire-based technology, and as we speak, we are delivering subway cars to Mexico City," Mr. Navarri said. "This was an order that we won against Alstom in 2002."

MILIUX

April 1st, 2006, 03:19 AM

What is the maximum speed for the subway?

elkram

April 24th, 2006, 09:27 PM

What is the maximum speed for the subway?
I was told it's 45MPH / 70KPH.
Another project, to extend the Côte-Vertu end of the orange line to boul. De Salaberry, was given the go-ahead, but was shelved due to the moratorium.
ANJOU EXTENSION
SOUTH SHORE EXTENSION
OTHER PROPOSALS
Additional extensions have also been proposed, including prolonging the orange line from Côte-Vertu to the Bois-Franc commuter train station
I've heard the tunnel ends 2km north of Côte-Vertu station -- there was a time when the names Bois-Franc and de-Salaberry were synonymous with this stray expensive tunneling.

If Bonsecours station were ever inserted, what section of the descent to underneath the river is straight and flat enough to be in proximity to the station exit(s)? I never understood this one, I'd swear the tunnel alignment's not well-suited for conversion other than a dual-tracked spur or two.

I could've sworn l'AMT had pages on the extensions plus their Park Ave and ice bridge trams, but they appear to have been pulled. Their Grands Projets webpage now lists only the Laval extension, nothing else -- hmmm. However I recently came across their page promoting last year's novelty trains, weekend excursions on an apple train, a wine train -- a whole dozen's worth of themes! a peculiar venture. The Train de l'Est's going to cost 300$M and two to three years to complete although -- yet another one of this kind of route! (third?) -- the route'll be in operation only weekday rushours. Why hasn't l'AMT's news release of the Train de l'Est made it to being their second-listed project on their Grands Projets page?

I wonder how l'AMT would take to operating their network like this:

http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Bayou/4804/revision4.JPG

The brown train line junction bypass (lowest maze) indicates a feature in service and doesn't illustrate the trackbed alignment, as trains would pass alongside the junction platforms without stopping, that's all. Route stripings represent current and absent underground passage, I suspect most of the remainder of new services could run on or above ground.

Cheers,
Chris

malek

April 25th, 2006, 12:15 AM

never seen this map before, where did you get it from ?

elkram

April 26th, 2006, 04:00 AM

(see below -- I can't delete this faulty message....)

elkram

April 26th, 2006, 04:02 AM

never seen this map before, where did you get it from ?
From my frustration at not being able to get around the city all that fast/well without an auto -- I think I'm now through tweaking my map.

My following two maps show:
1st) how all the services come together, and
2nd) what rights of way / tracking need to be established / re-established

http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Bayou/4804/services.JPG

http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Bayou/4804/ROWs.JPG

Cheers,
Chris

elkram

May 5th, 2006, 05:48 AM

Does the colour of the new orange panelling forthcoming on the refitting of the city's MR73 fleet look as bad as featured just now on the late-night news broadcast on my cheap TV?!? That is, has anybody seen the new colour riding any refitted car?

Cheers,
Chris

MTLskyline

May 12th, 2006, 01:03 AM

Good news that it will be built in Quebec. Let's just hope the gov't doesn't make the cost overrun like it did with the metro extension.

Montreal to get new trains in 2010

LuAnn LaSalle
The Montreal Gazette
Thursday, May 11, 2006

MONTREAL -- Transportation giant Bombardier Inc. (TSX:BBD.SV.B) has been given the go-ahead by the Quebec government on a $1.2-billion contract to build subway cars for Montreal's aging transit system.

Premier Jean Charest's Liberal government announced Thursday that Montreal's transit authority will begin negotiations with Bombardier for the replacement of 366 subway cars between 2010 and 2012.

"It's great news for thousands of public transit users,'' Economic Development Minister Raymond Bachand said during a news conference.

Bachand noted the subway cars were first used by transit riders during Expo 67. Montreal's subway system is known as the Metro, a term used by both anglophones and francophones.

Bombardier's competitor for the contract was French-based Alstom, a leader making of rail cars and products. Alstom had planned construction of the cars in Quebec.

While Alstom had no comment Thursday on the province's announcement, Quebec-based Bombardier was delighted with the news.

"Bombardier is proud to have the opportunity to work on Montreal's Metro,'' said William Spurr, president of Bombardier Transportation's North American division, noting the company helped build Montreal's first subway cars.

But Bachand noted the negotiations shouldn't be considered an automatic granting of the contract to Bombardier if the best product can't be obtained at the best price. If negotiations fail, the contract will be tendered internationally, he added.

But with the Charest government riding low in public opinion polls and the Bombardier plant that's expected to help build the cars located in a key cabinet minister's rural riding, it seems more than likely that Bombardier will build the subway cars.

The 1,000 Bombardier workers in the community of La Pocatiere in the Lower St. Lawrence region were already celebrating on Thursday.

"It's a great success for our region,'' local union president Gilles Ouellet told RDI, Radio-Canada's all news channel. "We knew we had the skills to get this contract.''

Bachand said a key factor to begin negotiations with Bombardier was the company's pledge to keep 70 per cent of the project in Quebec.

That means "thousands of jobs'' and "more than 30 suppliers all across the province will benefit from this,'' he said.

Bombardier Transportation was recently selected by the Ontario government to supply more than 200 new train cars for the Toronto subway, without an open bid. The cars will be built at Thunder Bay, Ont.

Bachand said direct negotiations with Bombardier, the only Canadian manufacturer of subway cars, conform to laws and trade agreements Quebec must respect.

Transport Minister Michel Despres said his government will put mechanisms in place to avoid cost overruns.

"I can assure you that we will carry out these negotiations with the firm intention to obtain the right price for the best project that exists,'' Despres said.

The costs of the project will be financed 75 per cent by the Quebec government and 25 per cent by Montreal's transit authority.

Shares in Bombardier (TSX:BBD.SV.B) closed Thursday in trading on the Toronto Stock Exchange at $3.93. down 10 cents.

© The Montreal Gazette
Copyright © 2006 CanWest Interactive, a division of CanWest MediaWorks Publications, Inc.. All rights reserved.

TooFar

May 12th, 2006, 03:06 AM

Good news for Bombardier, but I wonder if we will see any backlash for the government not putting this out to tender?

BTW elkram, great work on your maps.

hkskyline

June 28th, 2006, 05:18 PM

Alstom says to sue Bombardier over Montreal deal

PARIS, June 28 (Reuters) - French engineering group Alstom announced on Wednesday it would sue Bombardier Inc by the end of the week over a Montreal subway contract that it said Bombardier won without a prior open tender.

"We are going to sue in the Quebecois courts by the end of the week to highlight that this transaction of mutual accord is not in line with the Quebecois law," Alstom Chairman and Chief Executive Patrick Kron told shareholders.

habsfan

June 28th, 2006, 05:54 PM

malek

June 28th, 2006, 07:06 PM

they should sue the govt, not Bombardier... what a bunch of bullshit.

this is done only to piss bombardier and to make them lose some money in the process.

MTLskyline

June 29th, 2006, 02:02 AM

Is there anything good that can come out of this lawsuit?

TooFar

June 29th, 2006, 06:53 PM

Open and transparent government tendering?

De Snor

July 7th, 2006, 10:47 PM

Le plan Horizon 2020

http://www.emdx.org/rail/metro/Images/tHorizon2020.gif

a network map of trains:

http://www.ericprovost.net/eric/images/trains_mtl.png

De Snor

July 15th, 2006, 10:51 PM

elkram

July 30th, 2006, 03:37 AM

What is your opinion ?
American habit here of thinking nothing of cramming folks standing room only onto busses that ply expressways, undoubtedly getting stuck rush hours: this bus practice stems from psychotic leanings, it's dangerous. Electrify the trains turning them into metros. My 'hood'll probably always be left out of the picture as far as being brought into the fold of train service goes. The city should be demonstrating far better examples, plus it'd be far from being its first time doing so were it to.

Cheers,
Chris

malek

July 30th, 2006, 04:21 AM

the brown line will never see the light of day. The pink one has just been approved, making the brown one unecessary.

For the who don't know, that part of laval is just a giant forest (for now).

malek

July 30th, 2006, 04:24 AM

Finally the extension of the métro to Laval is nearly completed -it took them long enough to built it- , what does the city need to make it more acctractive to use public transportation?
Is the AMT suburban rail network sufficiant , are the bus routes good or not , what about future metro extensions, etc

What is your opinion ?

I hate buses and everyone else do, as long as I have to take a bus or walk more than 500m to get to the metro, my car will be used to get me to work. Even if it cost me more than 4 times the price of a bus pass in gaz.

I am not the only thinking like this.

ricasa25

July 30th, 2006, 04:29 AM

malek

July 30th, 2006, 07:23 AM

I was in Mtl one year ago and I was surprised because the organitzation of the seats was really extrange. Could you explain me if there are some special reason for this organitzation?¿

Thank you!!!!!!!

I have no idea, but something tells me at the time where the metro was built, someone decided that it would encourage more "social" behaviours if people would sit in groups of 3...

ricasa25

July 30th, 2006, 10:36 AM

Thats why Montrealers are how u are ! Due to the seats metro organitzation!!!! :drunk: :lol: :drunk: :cucumber:

York Transit

November 3rd, 2006, 12:12 PM

Hey guys, I discovered a...ahem...interesting STCUM ad from the 1970s :)

http://www.infopresse.com/visuel.aspx?id=17976&idimg=1

BlocQuebec

November 3rd, 2006, 08:19 PM

The Metro needs more coverage to the west.

MTLskyline

November 3rd, 2006, 10:30 PM

Hey guys, I discovered a...ahem...interesting STCUM ad from the 1970s :)

http://www.infopresse.com/visuel.aspx?id=17976&idimg=1

LMAO that is a very funny find...

Almost seems like commie propaganda...

elkram

November 8th, 2006, 04:49 PM

I was in Mtl one year ago and I was surprised because the organitzation of the seats was really extrange. Could you explain me if there are some special reason for this organitzation?¿

Thank you!!!!!!!
Forward- and rear-facing seats are favoured here to supposedly prevent motion sickness -- I can only guess as to what you find peculiar about the arrangement of seats on our fleets here . . . .

hkskyline

January 25th, 2007, 01:26 PM

Alstom goes to court to derail Bombardier deal for Montreal subway cars
Wed Jan 24, 4:32 PM
By Ross Marowits

MONTREAL (CP) - French transportation company Alstom has gone to court yet again in an attempt to derail Bombardier Inc. from winning a $1.2-billion order for new subway cars for the City of Montreal.

The French multinational recently asked the Quebec Superior Court to issue a safeguard order, or injunction, to stop talks and preliminary work on the project between the Montreal-based transportation company and the city's transit authority.

"We've put in a request that would force the STM (Societe de transport de Montreal) to go back in the tender process like the law says," Alstom Canada president Pierre Gauthier told The Canadian Press.

"The law is quite clear. It says if there is any other railway equipment producer in Canada, then the STM must proceed by a bidding process."

Alstom decided to initiate the new legal procedure - which has been postponed until Feb. 12 - after learning that its request for a declaratory judgment filed last June won't be heard before next summer.

The company fears any preliminary work completed between the STM and Bombardier would establish specifications that would clearly favour the large Quebec transportation conglomerate.

Alstom CEO Patrick Kron was in Montreal on Wednesday to discuss the French giant's legal strategy with his Canadian subsidiary's executives.

He also met with customers in the energy sector such as Hydro-Quebec and later travelled to Calgary for talks with TransAlta, one of Canada's biggest power producers.

Alstom abandoned a legal challenge against Bombardier late last year after it received about one-third of the subcontracting work for Bombardier's US$3.5 billion contract with French National Railways to supply 372 trains.

Gauthier wouldn't say whether a similar deal would be acceptable in Montreal.

"Who knows what's going to happen in the future, but for the moment we believe that on that product, which is rubber tire subways, we are the number one in the world and we want to show it."

The Quebec government announced last May that Montreal's transit authority could begin negotiations with Bombardier to replace 336 subway cars between 2010 and 2012.

In September, Toronto city council approved a $710-million contract with Bombardier to build 234 subway cars for the Toronto Transit Commission.

These non-bid contracts are so lucrative, they allow Bombardier to undercut the competition in other projects around the world, Gauthier said.

"What we view is happening here in Canada gives our competitor an unfair advantage that they can then use to dump product and pricing in other areas where the markets are unprotected."

Bombardier spokeswoman Genevieve Dion said it's up to customers to decide the procurement process they want to follow.

"We haven't started working on the STM project yet and as there are legal procedures, we won't comment."

Montreal's transit authority has no plans to begin negotiations with Bombardier until next November, said spokeswoman Isabelle Tremblay.

Internal work is proceeding to develop the terms and conditions of an eventual order.

"Because (negotiations are) not scheduled before November, things are continuing normally," she said.

This type of lawsuit by Alstom is commonly pursued in the transportation industry, said a Toronto analyst.

"These things are just part of the background music in that industry," said Richard Stoneman of Dundee Securities.

"In most countries, there is a real insistence that companies that get infrastructure work of this type that's paid for by taxpayers has direct and ongoing benefits to local industry."

The French company employs 1,500 workers in Canada, including 700 in Quebec. A total of 250 of the Quebecers work in transportation, with the remaining focused on power generation.

A facility that employed nearly 2,000 to renovate old Montreal subway cars was closed a few years ago when there wasn't enough work to sustain such a large facility, Gauthier said.

montrealjay

January 28th, 2007, 05:30 AM

My favourite station is lucien l'allier i think its the one thats so deep its just escalators one after the other. I love the different station designs, i only see the same ones every day i have to wander the metro some day. I like the giant CN building parc station is in. I like the metro better than torontos subway although the bus drivers speak little english and the announcments are in french. If you know where you are going its efficent and some places even have heated bus shelters. The bus drivers listen to the radio while driving, even pink floyd, and talk on cell phones. Its easy to get around downtown. The suburbs are tougher if you have to brave that. The monthly pass is cheaper than toronto too.

elkram

March 22nd, 2007, 07:23 PM

Montreal`s PTI 2007-2008-2009 Programme Triennal d'Immobilisations

http://www.amt.qc.ca/corpo/documents/budget/budget2007/pdf/Budget_AMT_2007_PTI.pdf

I met with a PR rep at l`AMT a week ago Tuesday and she handed me the above-linked report spiral bound. Its following pursuits are what catch my attention, superb news for this robust town:

No. B-42: (secondary phase?) study on making an interchange out of station Edouard-Montpetit with the electric Deux-Montagnes commuter train line underneath it

No. B-40: (secondary phase?) study on inserting another interchange at station McGill with the same electric train line

No. C-14: how the downtown terminus of a light rail route to the South Shore would be linked via direct passageways to Gare Centrale, a metro station (Bonaventure, right?), and Terminus Centre Ville

No. D.3: study on extending the blue line by one stop to reach boul. Pie-IX

No. D.4: study on extending the orange line by two stops on its western arm to reach boul. Henri-Bourassa W and the Bois-Franc station on that electric train line

The report's littered with several typos, one of which would appear to be the muddling up of the indexing of Nos. B-40 and B-42 appearing underneath both statuses Projets autorisés and Projets à l'étude pour fins d'autorisations, Pages 8 and 13 respectively; however, both these studies fall under the former status in the chapter where they're more fully revealed, being Pages 72 through 73.

The report doesn't mention anything about extending the yellow line.

The PR rep guessed the cost of carving out an interchange into station Edouard-Montpetit to me to be about two billion dollars (ouch!).

Ashok

March 22nd, 2007, 07:47 PM

I would like to see the blue line extended, both ways also into Cote.St Luc and Montreal West.

elkram

March 22nd, 2007, 08:21 PM

Nah, I'd say the cost's too prohibitive for westward extension of the blue line.

As far as CSL and Montreal West go, however, I would convert the CPR right of way into easily accommodating crosstown commuter, metro, freight travel, and freight switching, which altogether could cost more than the extension you wish, but far more accomplishing as far as a city and its region go. The commuter line would continue eastward beside the yet-to-be revamped Notre-Dame East Street. Maybe this eastward commuter line extension could be erected such that it serve as a buffer by better protecting the riverfront port? I find it criminal authorities' planning to revamp and broaden Notre-Dame East without any complementary rail service (tut tut, really!). Its metro line would start in western Lasalle, merge into the CRP, and then call at
- Lachine/St-Pierre,
- an interchange directly underneath the Rigaud commuter line (Mtl W),
- chemin Cote-St-Luc (Mtl W, again),
- Cavendish,
- Namur (stn),
- Cote-des-Neiges,
- Canora (stn),
- Acadie (stn),
- Clark,
- Rosemont (stn),
- Papineau,
- St-Joseph,
- Préfontaine (stn),
- Pie-IX at Notre-Dame East,
whereafter it would diverge from commuter service to serve the entire length of Pie-IX. Along with the commuter service, I'd submerge this metro service before Préfontaine so that nothing interfere with the adjacent freight switching of stuff to and from the port. It wouldn't run on rubber tyres either. The commuter service would re-emerge not too far after the metro-service divergence.

The commuter line service could at least call at the interchanges, which are today's stations (stn) on the other routes.

I write all this because another study of l'AMT's that also caught my fancy is their suggestion of inserting passenger-dedicated rails into the CNR and CPR jointly-shared corridor through the West Island, No. B.44, as this relates to spurring a rail link connecting the city's airport. The commuter service could diverge off to the West-island neighbourhoods after Cavendish for its western crosstown segment.

These services I suggest would be in addition to the forthcoming Train de l'Est, No. B.39.

Montreal`s PTI 2007-2008-2009 Programme Triennal d'Immobilisations

http://www.amt.qc.ca/corpo/documents/budget/budget2007/pdf/Budget_AMT_2007_PTI.pdf

Wouldn't it be neat if the city could position itself into becoming the first fully developed city on the continent with its 18-hour-day seven-days-per-week passenger rail service?!!!? I get goose bumps . . .

elkram

March 22nd, 2007, 08:55 PM

^^ repeat post

elkram

April 1st, 2007, 09:51 PM

Sorry, my 'puter's on the fritz plus the scanning of my drawn map (schematic, really) is poor:

http://www.geocities.com/trainrover/070330.jpg

The orange line virtually doesn't show. I'm glad I turned the yellow line into being red. The faint pink line represents a possible product of the recently announced study of the train léger over the ice bridge beside pont Champlain; I've made its terminus to be gare Canora, although wonder if the teeming neighbourhoods of the northeastern area of the island warrant crosstown train-léger coverage where the terminus would be near Sauvé and Pie-IX.

The map shows three stations I'd ablish plus the types of those that I'd like inaugurated; until Summer 2007, mind you, the map treats Laval's three new stations as if already opened. I remember numerous early-1980's occasions of reading about the metro tunnel ending at de Salaberry, being a good ways 'north' of ouest Henri-Bourassa. Many flaggings of stations called at by any one of the five express Aérotrain services also don't appear (one could argue there being six such services, actually).

elkram

April 2nd, 2007, 07:26 PM

L'AMT's report also sheds light on their wish to have Montréal-St-Jerome trains diverted from the Outremont triangle to merge into the Montréal-Deux-Montagne line some point south of gare Canora. This wish of theirs ain't serialized, as its being contingent to their serialized projects is mentioned a few times (e.g., several of their dual-mode locomotives they plan buying would haul St-Jerome trains through the Deux-Montagnes tunnel).

Wow, this wish of theirs would probably cost yet another $2 billion.

Above the fraction "2/3" in my map is my corrective remedy, being re-establishing the chord between the forthcoming Train de l'Est and the St-Jerome line, although this time around it would have to be double-tracked.

The chord is near Sauvé and de l'Acadie. Its overpass above de l'Acadie is probably built the same year, 1960 as posted underneath the west side of the overpass to the adjacent Train-de-l'Est mainline several metres 'south'. The Laurentian autoroute was opened through this neighbourhood 1959, no? I'd say de l'Acadie as we know it probably became like it is the same year, possibly serving as a back-up artery to the parallel autoroute, which is about 500 metres away to the west.

So when and what happened to this single-tracked chord? Stub embankments now abutt onto each end of the trackless overpass, and the parking lot to a five-year-old(?) box store has crept upon the right of way.

This stinks.

So let's have a bet, shall we?!? I bet that this province has indeed long lost its collective socially-progressive way of life and won't ask the well-known box-store chain to accommodate re-establishing the chord.

http://www.geocities.com/trainrover/070330.jpg

Montreal`s PTI 2007-2008-2009 Programme Triennal d'Immobilisations

http://www.amt.qc.ca/corpo/documents/budget/budget2007/pdf/Budget_AMT_2007_PTI.pdf

shufatid

April 17th, 2007, 09:01 PM

I think a couple of years back I read a survey that said Villa Maria station was the most dangerous Metro station in Montreal. Anybody know if this is still the case?

elkram

May 1st, 2007, 10:42 PM

^^ I mentioned that to a West-end friend a couple of months ago, yet her reply was that trouble in and around the Snowdon junction was reported in her district's weekly paper far more often than any happening in and around the Villa Maria station -- virtually weekly is what she had to say about Snowdon.

Ashok

May 3rd, 2007, 12:19 AM

I do not know if Villa Maria is a dangerous station, it does have a couple of high school that it serves. Around 3 o clock, the metro goes and stops several times because those kids keep playing with the damn doors.

shufatid

May 6th, 2007, 08:13 PM

^^ yes, i remember years ago when i was a regular villa maria commuter, i always see several police cars parked near the station and groups of policemen regularly patrolling the station early a.m. and around 3pm onwards.

personally, i think the downtown stations are more 'dangerous' (i use the term loosely) at night, especially after the happy hour, when drunks are all over the area.

hkskyline

May 18th, 2007, 08:30 PM

Montrealers warned to expect long transit strike
CBC
Fri May 18, 6:47 AM

Montrealer commuters are being warned to expect a long strike by maintenance workers at the Montreal Transit Corporation as they are scheduled to walk off the job on Tuesday.

Transit chair Claude Trudel said Friday the workers' demands are "unrealistic and unjustifiable."

The corporation won a major victory Thursday when the province's Essential Services Council ordered the workers to provide more services than they did during their last strike in November 2003.

During that strike, there was no weekend service on the metro. This time, the council has ordered full weekend service during peak hours.

About 2,200 transit maintenance employees have been working without a contract since January. They voted earlier this month to strike May 22 if a new deal isn't reached.

Wage increases and the corporation's pension plan are the main sticking points in negotiations. Workers are asking for a two per cent raise every year over the next three years.

The corporation is offering two per cent a year over a three-year period, but not starting until 2008.

Union spokesman Denis Bonneau said recently the maintenance workers want wage increases on a par with those won by workers in Laval and Longueuil in their most recent collective agreements.

"We're doing the same job. We want the same thing," Bonneau said.

The City of Montreal has told the transit corporation it can't afford raises this year because of an island-wide wage freeze in the last municipal budget designed to curb a growing deficit.

If the parties don't reach an agreement by Monday night, maintenance workers said they will walk off the job at 12:01 a.m. Tuesday.

hkskyline

November 14th, 2007, 03:35 PM

Montreal's bus and subway drivers vote in support of strike mandate
13 November 2007
The Canadian Press

MONTREAL _ Montreal's bus and subway drivers have voted to give their union a strike mandate, raising the possibility of the city's second transit strike in less than a year.

Union members voted 97 per cent in favour of the strike mandate on Tuesday night.

The union says it hopes the mandate will be enough to breathe new life into stalled negotiations between the two sides.

The public transit operators have been without a contract since January and are fiercely opposed to a proposed wage freeze for 2007.

Around 2,200 public transit maintenance workers walked off the job last May, leaving Montreal with no bus or subway service for four days.

GTS

February 7th, 2008, 03:12 PM

habsfan

February 7th, 2008, 08:55 PM

I hope that Montreal doesn't rest on their laurels now that the Laval extension is up and running. I hope the Longueil extension happens, as that is where I am originally from.

Nobody knows for sure what will happen, but my best educated guess would be that the next metro extension will be the Blue line heading east to Anjou. THat is where the population density is highest and a metro extension would make the most sense. An extension of the Yellow line into Longueuil would be good, but not as urgent as an extension of the Blue Line east.

Anyways this article had the per/capita rides of the general population who take transit in their various cities and, besides New York of course, Montreal had the highest rides per/capita. My present home Toronto has more overall rides but Montreal surpasses T.O. on per capita rides. If this is true Montreal has a really well planned system and I hope they continue to expand it.

Yes it is true! Montréal might have a higher per capita ridership, but I think the difference with Toronto is really small.

ChrisDVD

February 7th, 2008, 11:11 PM

Not sure, but i heard they might close some lines in TO? is that right?

GTS

February 8th, 2008, 02:32 AM

The TTC threatens to close the little used Sheppard line now and then but I think they do that to scare up funding. Their is a lot of development along that line and if it is ever extended into Scarborough it will increase the use of this line considerably.

Toronto has a lot of streetcar plans I was wondering if this type of equipment would be compatible to my old home town of Montreals landscape and climate? LRT is a type of rapid transit that doesn't break the bank like Subways do and they don't move as many people as a subway does but a lot of areas don't require the volumes that subways deliver.

Looking at the map of Montreal it looks as though the rapid transit covers a lot more area the T.O.'s. Vancouver is soon going to surpass us both as the BC government has just announced a $14 Billion plan for transit development mostly in Lower Mainland area of Vancouver. Hope that Ontario comes through with their own MoveOntario 2020 plan comes through- it is a 2/3 provincially funded transit plan with the final third waiting for the feds to deliver. Once the feds agree to this funding scheme hopefully all these plans come to be. I was wondering, since the provincial govts. of both BC and ON have both announce ambitious public transit plans, is Quebec cooking up anything as well to sell to the feds for partial funding from Ottawa as well. Figure if BC and ON get funding so should Quebec for its own public transit- and Alberta for that matter.

Reading through some of the previous posts it looks like the STM has already invested some research in expanding its own public transit system. Good luck to public transit in the greater Montreal area.

Habfanman

February 8th, 2008, 05:03 AM

I think the priority is the blue line extension first and then the orange line from Côte-Vertu. I think that they are now pushing for light rail on the South Shore, possibly going over the Jacques Cartier as well as light rail downtown. The AMT east line will definately be built.

habsfan

February 8th, 2008, 08:48 PM

I think that they are now pushing for light rail on the South Shore, possibly going over the Jacques Cartier as well as light rail downtown. The AMT east line will definately be built.

If we ever do get a light rail link to the South Shore, you can bet your next paycheck that it'll pass through Nun's Island, onto the Ice Bridge of the Champlain Bridge and into Brossard on the South Shore. They will not remove a lane from the historic Jacques-Cartier bridge.

habsfan

February 8th, 2008, 08:49 PM

I was wondering, since the provincial govts. of both BC and ON have both announce ambitious public transit plans, is Quebec cooking up anything as well to sell to the feds for partial funding from Ottawa as well. Figure if BC and ON get funding so should Quebec for its own public transit- and Alberta for that matter.

I do believe something was announced in the last year, but I don't have any figures to back it up!

trainrover

February 12th, 2008, 08:12 PM

I think that they are now pushing for light rail on the South Shore, possibly going over the Jacques Cartier as well as light rail downtown.
I used to think this although reading l'AMT's most recent report reveals their not rementioning this proposal. The route taking the JC's new to me. All I heard was their wishing to convert the parallel ice bridge not far upstream from the Champlain bridge.

GTS

February 13th, 2008, 10:26 PM

habsfan

February 13th, 2008, 11:59 PM

I was just on the website UrbanRail.net and did a comparison check of my original hometown of Montreal, to my present hometown of Toronto and was surprised that the Montreal system nearly equals Toronto's in total routes length and number of station. Checked out my town where I lived the longest as well- Vancouver.

As per UrbanRail.net:
Population Route length # of Stations
Montreal 3.5M in Greater Montreal 69.2 km 68
Toronto 5M in Greater Toronto 70 km 73
Vancouver 2M in Greater Vancouver 49.5 km 33

Hope that Toronto and the province starts investing in our own system so we can catch up to my hometown Montreal's system. I know our system is slightly bigger then Montreals system but Montreal has a smaller population so they are better served the us poor needy Torontonians.

I don't want to disappoint you too much, but there's talk of expanding the Blue line eastwards. and also the Charest gov't has been talking about completeing the "loop" in Laval. WE are looking at an addition of about 5 stations and 5KM's for the Blue line extension eastwards and another 3 stations for laval along with about 2 or 3 KM's of track.

GTS

February 14th, 2008, 01:49 AM

Habsfan- I am not disappointed- I think it is great news whenever I hear about different urban areas in Canada expanding or starting up some rapid public transit. Great news that Montreal closes that loop. I imagine that Laval will get another station or two to complete the loop. I am originally from the Longueuil area, born and raised, so I hope that area of Montreal isn't neglected and the STM finally expands the yellow line- Longueuil has the population to support such an expansion. I suppose the Blue Line eastward expansion will benefit more people though. I amnot familiar with that area of Montreal, I left when I was a kid.

althegreat

February 14th, 2008, 02:15 AM

I don't want to disappoint you too much, but there's talk of expanding the Blue line eastwards. and also the Charest gov't has been talking about completeing the "loop" in Laval. WE are looking at an addition of about 5 stations and 5KM's for the Blue line extension eastwards and another 3 stations for laval along with about 2 or 3 KM's of track.

Holy shit for real? Is it serious? When was this proposed?

Habfanman

February 14th, 2008, 02:22 AM

I used to think this although reading l'AMT's most recent report reveals their not rementioning this proposal. The route taking the JC's new to me. All I heard was their wishing to convert the parallel ice bridge not far upstream from the Champlain bridge.

Sorry trainrover, it was the Champlain. That makes a LOT more sense. Expanding the ice bridge seems to be a logical choice.

http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=101eea40-3d46-4391-9c4b-116957da87d4

GTS

February 14th, 2008, 02:48 AM

habsfan

February 14th, 2008, 06:31 PM

Holy shit for real? Is it serious? When was this proposed?

Can't you smell the elections coming?!?! These were announced yesterday by the Charest gov't!

habsfan

February 14th, 2008, 06:33 PM

I don't know it it could be engineered but could Montreal run a subway on a lower deck of a bridge over the river. Toronto runs the Bloor/Danforth under the Bloor St. Viaduct over the Don River/Valley where it then goes under Danforth on the east side of this valley. I think with the Champlain bridge on top of the exposed subway, it would protect the subway cars and rails from the harsher winters that Montreal experiences. If it could be done it would save the STM some money building new infrastructure to expand the metro to the South Shore as their are bridges are already there.

It would cost too much, plus they'd have to cut giant holes in the piers that hold up the Champlain Bridge.

The Ice bridge right next to the Champlain Bridge is the perfect solution. It is not being used, and is already there. All they have to do is cover it with a temperature resistent plexiglass, and Voilà! Added bonus, it would cost alot less.

BY the way, the difference in temperature between Toronto and Montreal is about 1 degree celsius, which isn'T much!;) I got my numbers from the Weather Network(Météomédia)

trainrover

February 14th, 2008, 08:09 PM

^^ Such a right of way would have to prevent any incursion of frost/ice throughout its crossing the broad mighty river right below.

All this talk about bringing metros above ground . . . what happened to those days when tunneling metros was applauded for overcoming the city's damp, blustery winters?!?

There is, however, one surface metro I'd like to see brought on stream: The adding-in of double-tracking to the CPR line looping around the north side of the mountain, such that its frequent metros interchange with stations Préfontaine, Rosemont, Acadie and Namur, plus gares Canora and Montréal-Ouest. With rue E-Notre-Dame scheduled to be revamped, such a route could be tunneled between it and station Préfontaine such that it reappear alongside (be devised into!) the boulevard -- such a surface metro route could easily accommodate cross-regional commuter trains. Heck, with so many new gadgets now brought onto the market, I`m sure the adoption of this route would not see its wintertime service suffer much from lousy weather.

GTS

February 14th, 2008, 08:53 PM

BY the way, the difference in temperature between Toronto and Montreal is about 1 degree celsius, which isn'T much!;) I got my numbers from the Weather Network(Météomédia)

No their isn't much a difference in temps. TO gets moderated by the lake a bit I think- the real difference is amount of precipitation. Montreal get quite a bit more snow then TO does for some reason. And snow falling on exposed electrified rail lines causes many problems.

trainrover

February 19th, 2008, 07:59 PM

Bad flooding in the ticket-hall levels to many Blue-line stations so far this week, huh?

GTS

February 27th, 2008, 03:55 PM

Well Finance Minister Jim Flaherty just delivered his '08 budget and I am very disappointed. Out of this huge surplus he has only earmarked $500 Million for transit initiative ACROSS the country. The city of Vancouver is going to get funding for the Evergreen Line, which will connect Coquitlam Town Center with the rest of Vancouver, it will fund a new commuter rail line from Toronto's Union Station to the city of Peterborough and it said it will fund a commuter rail line in Montreal- I didn't catch the specifics of Montreal's project.

I am disappointed because we had $Billions in surplus and some should have gone to deficit reduction but, while we have the funds, some serious money should have gone to public transit to all large urban areas across this country. Rail is what brought Canada together many years ago and some serious investment in rail, commuter rail, light rail and subways would keep Canada competive far into the future as well.

I hope that Mr. Dion reconsiders and opposes this lame budget.

GTS

February 27th, 2008, 05:15 PM

I just found the specifics for Montreal's project- found this on Spacing Wire and they found it on CBC News:

New equipment and upgrades to dedicated rapid transit routes for the Aéroports de Montréal.

trainrover

March 3rd, 2008, 07:55 PM

^^ T'is truly not much --- somethin' like the umpteenth feasibility study, this project of "theirs" (still!) is . . .

hkskyline

June 13th, 2008, 03:51 AM

Was it really worth it?
On the one-year anniversary of the inauguration of Laval's three new stations, questions remain about whether the $745-million investment is paying off
26 April 2008
Montreal Gazette

Riding the métro from Laval into Montreal during the morning rush hour, Louise Privée is pleased, even if having a seat is too much to hope for.

"I like it a lot," she said of the new Laval line. "There's never enough places to sit, but it's still more comfortable than the bus." One year after the three- station, 5.2-kilometre métro extension into Laval was officially inaugurated on April 26, Laval commuters and Montreal's métro authorities are understandably pleased, although legions of seatless riders and overflowing métro parking lots indicate the new line has quickly become a victim of its own success and questionable planning.

Daily ridership emanating from the three Laval stations has risen to 60,000 passengers per weekday (approximately 30,000 leaving in the morning and returning in the evening), 20 per cent higher than the 50,000 that were projected to be using it after one year.

But riders like Privée also resurrect the question of whether the $745-million investment was worth it in the first place.

Privée used to ride the bus from her home in the Vimont sector to the Henri Bourassa métro station in Ahuntsic, just across the water from Laval, then take the métro to her Old Montreal workplace, a commute of about an hour and five minutes.

Now she takes a half-hour bus ride to get to the Cartier station in Laval and rides for another half-hour to work - a savings of five minutes.

The MTC estimates that as few as 2,000 users of the Laval line might be new users. This means the vast majority were already using public transit, so only a relatively small number of cars have been taken off the roads thanks to the métro. (One wag wrote The Gazette to say that even if there were 3,000 new users, it still works out to $248,000 per person, so why not just buy them all condominiums in Montreal instead?) "If it's just bus rides that are being replaced, then it's a very expensive solution to a basic problem," said Murtaza Haider, a professor at McGill University and Ryerson University in Toronto specializing in public transportation and urban planning. A better and much less costly idea would have been to improve the bus system, he said.

Laval Mayor Gilles Vaillancourt begs to differ.

"Buses," he said, in the same tone one would use for the word cockroaches. "It's been 30 years that I've been hearing that and it doesn't impress me at all. You cannot convert new users to a bus system. You have to give them a real alternative, and that alternative we now know is the métro." Buses get stuck in traffic jams and snow storms, and are more costly to operate per user than subway trains, he said. Buses cost $4.75 per user per trip, as compared to under $3 for the métro system, he said.

Montrealers forced to wait as métro cars packed with Laval residents sailed by them inundated the MTC with complaints in the months following the line's opening. There were more than 400 complaints in nine months, compared with the 122 complaints registered the year before in the same period, Radio-Canada reported, citing documents obtained through the Access to Information Act.

"Of course, it is a success; we are very happy with the high numbers, but there are complaints and we're trying to reduce those to a minimum," said MTC spokesperson Marianne Rouette, adding that the number of complaints dropped 60 per cent in January and February from the initial levels.

To cope with demand, the MTC has increased frequency by 17 per cent since January, is modifying train cars to hold more passengers, and has upped the number of trains on the Orange Line from 29 to 33, running every 31/2 minutes at rush hour, Rouette said.

One out of every two southbound trains leaves directly from Henri Bourassa, ensuring Montrealers will have room, Rouette said.

"We can't get the complaints to zero; that would take a miracle," she said. "And the miracle is when the new trains come." New trains are expected by 2012 or 2013, she said.

The growing pains are a good thing, said Normand Parisien, executive director of the Quebec branch of advocacy group Transport 2000, because they will spur improvements to Montreal's aging fleet, much of it nearing 45 years old.

Fighting against métro systems is difficult because they're popular with the public, he said. It didn't help that the Parti Québécois government of Lucien Bouchard severely lowballed the construction estimate at $179 million when it promised the venture during pre-election season in 1998.

"We wish the best for the new system," Parisien said, even though the group has protested against it for 15 years as a costly investment for such a short distance.

"People are happy with the métro, but they have to realize it reduces the margin to manoeuvre for other projects." The métro construction soaked up $745 million in tax dollars that won't go to health care, pothole repairs or upgrades to Montreal's existing transit system, Haider said.

Both the MTC and the Metropolitan Transit Agency, the provincial body that oversees transit planning in the Montreal region, are quick to note the Laval line was a political decision.

"The government decided the métro should be extended to Laval, and we'll live with the decision," said Marvin Rotrand, vice-chairman of the MTC board and a Montreal city councillor, noting that the line appears to be a success.

"Clearly the city would have preferred an extension of the Blue Line east toward St. Léonard, Montreal North and Rivière des Prairies, where there is a very large population." The MTA is working on a study for an extension of the Blue Line to the east, as well as an extension of the Orange Line north for two stops beyond Côte Vertu into St. Laurent, the scene of heavy housing development in the last decade. Vaillancourt is pushing for a further 10-kilometre extension of the Laval line that would hook up with the other end of the Orange Line, completing the loop.

"The Laval line is proof that if you build it, they will come," said Joël Gauthier, president and CEO of the Metropolitan Transit Agency, adding that the ease of métro travel makes it a greater draw than the bus.

But the Blue Line running from Snowdon to St. Michel puts the lie to that theory, Haider said. Built 22 years ago, it is still underused, showing that only population density guarantees a proper return on métro investment. (An extension eastward would solve that problem, Gauthier said.) Similar complaints have been made about the line that extends to Longueuil.

To Haider, the Laval extension is a waste no matter how many riders use it.

"If I had $800 million, I would have invested in transit efficiency by reducing wait times for buses and replacing the aging fleet of métros," Haider said, noting that it's unfair that service for Montrealers has worsened as a result of the Laval métro line, considering they pay the bulk of the operating costs.

"Montreal is such a cold city. When you see people waiting outside in minus 30C, and they don't know if the bus will come in five minutes or 25 minutes, that rider will be lost as soon as they can afford a vehicle." A Léger Marketing survey conducted for Le Journal de Montréal and TVA and made public this week found that 60 per cent of all Quebecers use cars to get to work; but half said they might switch to public transit if service improved. Many respondents complained that public transit now takes too long, is too crowded or just doesn't exist in their neighbourhood.

Vaillancourt brushes off the anti-métro sentiment, saying it only exists in Montreal, which would rather take the view "that nobody exists except them." The fact the métro is overcrowded and métro station parking lots holding 2,000 cars are full is proof the system is a success, he said. He estimates the number of new users at 4,000 to 5,000. Transport Quebec does not have statistics yet on what effects, if any, the métro has had on traffic patterns.

"Who else has been able to divert 5,000 cars?" he asked. "Nobody but Laval." For passengers like Laval resident Marco Nocella, the line is the fulfillment of a 30-year-old political promise long overdue.

"Sooner or later it would have to be built," he said. "Might as well do it now. It was necessary."

malek

June 14th, 2008, 04:28 AM

Rumors

June 14th, 2008, 03:56 PM

trainrover

June 20th, 2008, 04:15 PM

I don't understand the tone used by the gazette, its been a huge success, even the naysayers have abandonned their bitching and come to the conclusion that its far from being a waste.

The Gazette loves to stir shit...
I hear you, although their columnist Henry Aubin is pleasingly sharp at sharing some considerably worthwhile thoughts.

I can't believe the alien supposing the Blue Line blighted by under-usage.....it shoulda taken a trip on one of its trains and seen for itself just how infrequently any prospect of resting your feet upon another nearby seat presents itself...

hkskyline

June 24th, 2008, 12:13 PM

More people riding bus and metro, Montreal transit authority says
Thu Jun 19, 6:19 PM

MONTREAL (CBC) - The Montreal Transit Corp. says its ridership has increased by nearly four per cent this year compared with last.

The MTC recorded 4.2 million more trips on buses and subways between January and April 2008, a four per cent increase compared with the same period in 2007.

Improvements to the frequency of transit service and a trio of new metro stations helped drive numbers up, the MTC said Thursday.

About 90 per cent of the reported increase came from metro ridership, which shot up after the MTC opened three new subway stations in Laval, north of Montreal, in May 2007.

The MTC is putting more buses on the road to handle increased passenger volume, said Marvin Rotrand, vice-president of the transit corporation.

"In some areas you'll see far more frequncy outside of rush hour, some of the metro buses will run longer hours, in some areas where there was only service during rush hour there will now be all day service," he said Thursday.

Service will be increased on 12 routes around the city, starting June 23, which will add up to an additional 40,000 hours of bus service every year, Rotrand said.

A new bus route will also be created in the Old Port.

Habfanman

July 5th, 2008, 08:10 AM

Service being extended throughout the system. This was supposed to happen in March but some of the providers asked for a delay.

Le cellulaire accessible partout dans le métro
MARIE-EVE SHAFFER, MÉTRO
03 juillet 2008 05:00

La Société de transport de Montréal (STM) caresse le projet de permettre à ses usagers d’utiliser leur téléphone cellulaire dans tout le réseau du métro. Le choix du fournisseur devrait être fait cet automne.

Un appel d’intérêt a été lancé au début de l’année auprès des fournisseurs de téléphonie cellulaire tels que Bell Canada, Vidéotron, Telus et Rogers. Il prenait fin le 31 mars, mais certains fournisseurs ont demandé un délai. La dernière proposition a été reçue récemment.

«Il faut étudier les propositions pour voir si elles respectent l’appel d’intérêt», a indiqué hier la porte-parole de la STM, Marianne Rouette. Aucune date n’a encore été avancée pour la mise en œuvre du réseau cellulaire dans le métro.

Jusqu’à présent, seulement quelques stations – surtout celles situées dans le centre-ville, comme Peel, Square-Victoria et Berri-UQAM – disposent de l’antenne nécessaire pour capter les ondes des téléphones cellulaires. Les usagers de la STM demandent d’étendre la couverture, notamment lorsque des groupe de discussion sont organisés. En outre, dans un sondage Léger Marketing réalisé en 2007, près de 80 % des répondants ont affirmé qu’ils aimeraient recevoir sur leur cellulaire de l’information concernant les ralentissements et les interruptions de service.

Sans frais pour la STM

Ce service ne coûte rien à la STM. C’est le fournisseur choisi qui débourse pour l’installation des câbles et de l’antenne, en plus de payer un loyer à la STM. Par exemple, il en coûte 21 153 $ par année à Bell Canada pour permettre aux usagers du transport en commun de parler au téléphone cellulaire à la station Berri-UQAM, selon Mme Rouette.

Question de sécurité

Avant de s’entendre avec un fournisseur de téléphonie mobile, la STM tient à s’assurer que son réseau de communication ne sera pas touché par les nouvelles installations. «Notre réseau de communication a priorité sur celui du public, a fait savoir la porte-parole de la STM. C’est une question de sécurité de faire fonctionner le métro.»

trainrover

July 8th, 2008, 06:18 PM

^^ Scary, microwaves ricocheting off everything with nowhere to go throughout our fully-underground network are...those dumb mobile appliances show nadda, other than nuisances repetitiously taking to shagging diss-a-ray...those natterers' disorganized, unnecessary spillages do amount to hazardous waste.

GTS

August 3rd, 2008, 03:11 PM

To bad about the negative article in the Gazzette about the Lava extension. It is new and might take time to draw new riders in. I am glad Montreal is expanding their system, as fuel prices rise I am sure that more and more different forms of electric rail will be showing up in more urban areas. I think even smaller urban areas of 100,000 will be seeing LRT or streetcars in their cities to help their different population stay mobile. With the amount of hydro-electric power Quebec has I hope that they keep up expanding their electric rail network that produces no local area exhuast- like a bus rapid transit system would. BRT is also more vulnerable to the rising fuel prices.

What is Montreal's next major transit project? I read that they might extend the Blue Line eastward, or close the loop from Montmorency to Cote-Vertu on the Orange Line or extend the Yellow Line a few more kms and stations into Longueuil. I hope they bring some rapid transit to P.E.T. Airport. The airport and commuter rail stations are all part of any ciies transportation system. Where I used to live, Vancouver, is about to finish their own rapid transit link to their airport and I think that a rapid transit link to Montreal own airport might increase tourism and other economic activity.

Rumors

August 3rd, 2008, 05:38 PM

rockin'.baltimorean

August 3rd, 2008, 10:11 PM

you guys have gotta' have the cleanest subway station in the world. very nice!!:okay:

Rumors

August 3rd, 2008, 10:23 PM

you guys have gotta' have the cleanest subway station in the world. very nice!!:okay:

Montreal. :bowtie: Thank You.

malek

August 4th, 2008, 05:07 PM

What is Montreal's next major transit project? I read that they might extend the Blue Line eastward, or close the loop from Montmorency to Cote-Vertu on the Orange Line or extend the Yellow Line a few more kms and stations into Longueuil. I hope they bring some rapid transit to P.E.T. Airport. The airport and commuter rail stations are all part of any ciies transportation system. Where I used to live, Vancouver, is about to finish their own rapid transit link to their airport and I think that a rapid transit link to Montreal own airport might increase tourism and other economic activity.

1-A new commuter train is under construction linking the north eastern burbs to downtown.

Everything else is being studied and planned, Airport link with dedicated rails, various metro extensions, tramway lines and highway extensions that will enable better bus service:lol:

GTS

August 11th, 2008, 12:41 PM

Tomorrow on Aug. 12 my wife and I are going to Montreal for a visit and I am finally going to see the extension for myself. I look forward to this visit to the city of my birth.

trainrover

August 11th, 2008, 06:35 PM

I am finally going to see the extension for myself.
Bring extra fares with you -- something about boarding at Laval metro stations possibly being costlier than regular fare, is what I remember...

Habfanman

August 11th, 2008, 11:16 PM

Tomorrow on Aug. 12 my wife and I are going to Montreal for a visit and I am finally going to see the extension for myself. I look forward to this visit to the city of my birth.

Hey GTS, if you're looking for a good deal on a transit/museum pass check this out:

http://www.museesmontreal.org/site/museumspass.htm

If you're going to be here for a short time I'd recommend the 50$, 3 day museum/transit pass. If you'll be here for a week or more I'd recommend the 45$ museum only pass plus a 19.25$ weekly transit pass.

Have fun!

malek

August 12th, 2008, 05:07 PM

Bring extra fares with you -- something about boarding at Laval metro stations possibly being costlier than regular fare, is what I remember...

a big 25 cents more:bash:

ssiguy2

August 13th, 2008, 04:46 PM

^^^^
Yes, Vancouver has been quickly making up for lost time in the rapid transit area but it is hardly the only city with it's "shit together".
Toronto has it's massive TransitCity plus an additional 20km of subway. Miss/Bramp have new LRT proposed also, like TransitCity to be completed in just 9 years. That does not include the 5 new GO commuter rail lines and huge capacity increases on the current ones.
Calgary expanded it's system last year with an extention with extentions opening every year til 2014. This includes 2 completly new lines and a downtown tunnel. It is hoping to have some form of commuter rail going by 2020.
Edmonton's system although smaller but a further LRT expansion will open by 2010 with new lines to begin construction hopefully by 2011.

Vancouver is doing quite well but so are other major Canadian cities.
Unless Montreal get's "shit together" it will be Montreal that lags.

trainrover

August 13th, 2008, 06:52 PM

a big 25 cents more:bash:
do you feel more of a man by violently correcting a respondent's suspicion? would you do that in one of my boardrooms, for example? and are your bucks --ooops!-- sense really that big?

Vas t'en!

^^^^
Yes, Vancouver has been quickly making up for lost time in the rapid transit area but it is hardly the only city with it's "shit together".
Toronto has it's massive TransitCity plus an additional 20km of subway. Miss/Bramp have new LRT proposed also, like TransitCity to be completed in just 9 years. That does not include the 5 new GO commuter rail lines and huge capacity increases on the current ones.
Calgary expanded it's system last year with an extention with extentions opening every year til 2014. This includes 2 completly new lines and a downtown tunnel. It is hoping to have some form of commuter rail going by 2020.
Edmonton's system although smaller but a further LRT expansion will open by 2010 with new lines to begin construction hopefully by 2011.

Vancouver is doing quite well but so are other major Canadian cities.
Unless Montreal get's "shit together" it will be Montreal that lags.
I don't know why you write like that -- your padding ain't impressing me. After all you've written, there's no telling whether all that heavy rail you're so desparately trying to impress with were going to be beyond peak-hour-service only...frankly, there's nothing exceptionally 'Canadian/en' about any of its municipalities' public transport plans...

GTS

August 14th, 2008, 01:24 PM

trainrover

August 14th, 2008, 06:57 PM

Really enjoyed our few days in Montreal. We stayed at the Ville Marie just a short walk from Peel Station. The stations we saw all look great, much more aesthetically pleasing then T.O.'s station's, looks like the STM has pumped some money in design and it was a real treat to see. The cars are much smaller then the TTC's subway cars though. I think a TTC subway car can hold about twice as much as many passengers as Montreal cars hold. STM's metro cars are a little bigger then Vancouver's Mark II Skytrain cars though. Each train in Toronto is 6 cars in length though and Montreal's trains were 9 cars in length I think I counted. I know in some of the transit literature I read they talk of something called Peak Passengers in Peak Direction or ssomething like that, anyways this formula usually calculate Toronto's subway capable of moving about 10,000 passengers per hour I think- I will have to go through my files and get the correct terminology but I do remember that it is 10,000 passengers. What are Montreal's #'s, it must be pretty close even though the cars are smaller there are a few more of them.

It was the prov'l govt that forked over $218,000,000CDN for the city's intial two-line-23-station network; the STM (or whatever that authority's name had been back in the day) became the operator after some bishop worked his blessing on opening day -- they say it cost two-thirds of what T'o's cost to build a dozen years or so beforehand (T'o's shale posed engineering challenges, is what I remember learning)
Surely those behemoth T'o subway wagons put through more passengers that that, no?!
Me, I haven't a clue what Mtl's figures are -- I do remember reading some stat from several years ago, claiming Mtl's network being NA's third busiest, after NYC and T'o

habsfan

August 14th, 2008, 10:19 PM

Me, I haven't a clue what Mtl's figures are -- I do remember reading some stat from several years ago, claiming Mtl's network being NA's third busiest, after NYC and T'o

Actually, in terms of passengers per capita, we are tied for second with Toronto!

trainrover

August 14th, 2008, 11:26 PM

^^ I've read that too

GTS

August 15th, 2008, 01:50 AM

Habfanman

August 15th, 2008, 08:47 AM

My wife and I had a great time exploring Montreal VIA the Metro but we had a baby stroller to get around, I think we were at 7 or 8 stations in the downtown area and none of the stations we were at had elevators. I hope the STM is planning on installing elavators and escalators at more of your stations. Their was two of us, my wife and I, so we were able to struggle with the stairs but I couldn't imagine a single parent or physically disabled commuter navigating this otherwise great system.

Heh heh, welcome to stair city! Between the twisty stairs at my house, hills and stairs in the metro, I swear I've lost 10 pounds since I moved here.

The STM lags way behind in accessibility. Nothing was done in the 90's and they are only now beginning to install elevators. The only currently accessible stations are the 3 new Laval stations. There are 5 stations being retrofitted at the moment: Lionel-Groulx, Berri-UQAM, Henri-Bourassa, Côte-Vertu and Bonaventure. At the rate of 5 per year, the system won't be completely accessible until at least 2020. I'll have to stay healthy because 2 of the 4 stations that I regularly use are sure to be among the last to be converted (Laurier, Joliette).

TTC trains are way bigger. They seat 66 with 184 standees whereas the metro only seats 40 with 125 standees. With 3 extra cars on the metro, the capacity per train is roughly the same; 1500, but I imagine that you can cram a lot more people on the TTC at rush hour. I've seen the term 'crush capacity' used and TTC's was quoted as 315 per car. I think the crush capacity of the metro would be well below 200.

The rationale behind narrow gauge was to be able to cut single tunnels rather than double and to increase manoeverability and make it possible to take tighter curves. The rubber tires help improve grip and make it possible to climb steeper grades ie: under the river.

There's are a number of superb metro sites, the best of which hast to be:
http://www.metrodemontreal.com/
This site has hundreds of photographs, details on station design and artwork, history, technical specs etc., even ratings of the stations (subjective but I mostly concur). Some of the expansion and ridership info is a bit dated but it's a great site.

There is a good writeup on nycsubway.org, about 5 years out of date but interesting nonetheless.
http://world.nycsubway.org/canada/montreal/

This has some great highlight photos:
http://mic-ro.com/metro/montreal.html

As does this:
http://metro.jaygees.net/

Two awesome sites in fench with great photos and diagrams
http://www.geocities.com/kodun_gs/2.htm
http://emdx.org/rail/metro/index.php

These have videos:
http://www.virgin-vacations.com/site_vv/11-top-underground-transit-systems-in-the-world.asp

http://mic-ro.com/metro/metrocity.html?city=Montreal

There are also links on all of these sites to other excellent transit sites.

GTS

August 15th, 2008, 11:36 AM

habsfan

August 15th, 2008, 04:09 PM

trainrover

August 15th, 2008, 07:16 PM

I hope the STM is planning on installing elavators
Laval's stations are so equipped...three's worth are being installed at the Lionel-Groulx interchange.

and escalators at more of your stations
The only stations without escalators are those where it's only a couple of flights of steps from the exit/entrance to the platforms.

I like London's term "step free".

Maybe that has improved with the expansion that happened
It didn't, plus I'm surprised that the new bus-termnini Laval stations named Cartier and Montmorency weren't set up like the South Shore bus hubs at Bonaventure and Longueuil stations...peculiar, Laval's shirking comfort...

Habfanman

August 15th, 2008, 08:32 PM

I was just in downtown area of Montreal, but, are all the bus transfer sites outside of the stations or are their stations where buses enter the station like quite a few stations here in Toronto. Vancouver didn't have stations where buses entered the stations, except Metrotown in Burnaby that I can remember. Maybe that has improved with the expansion that happened and is happening since I moved away. I appreciate the ease and comfort of transfering onto a bus from a subway when I don't have to leave the station to go wait on the street. In Toronto, most of the downtown subway stations, except Union and Spadina, you have to go out on the street to make a transfer. It isn't too comfortable when the weather isn't nice.

Like habsfan said, the only one I know of is Bonaventure. If you're heading downtown, it's highly unlikely that you would need to transfer to a bus, you'd get off at the station at or near your destination and either take the RESO (underground) or pop up at the closest exit. The only time I've transferred from the metro to a bus downtown was to take the 80 from Place des Arts up ave du Parc. You can wait in the station there because the bus stops directly in front of the doors. Where an underground station would be great is Angrignon where there are a series of outdoor shelters. Same goes for Côte-Vertu and Honoré-Beaugrand. I've yet to check out the Laval stations.. there's an idea!

GTS

August 15th, 2008, 10:54 PM

This isn't a comment about the Montreal Metro but it is about transit in Montreal. I noticed on a street downtown near the hotel we stayed at that one of the streets has a special bike lane with a small curb to seperate it from traffic. Cycling is definitely part of any city's transit and Montreal is showing commitment to this by investing in this cycling infrastructure. I could have used one on these protected lanes here in Ontario. 5yrs ago I moved here from Vancouver, because of a car accident I had, and finally got back to work here in Ont. Less then 6mos. after starting my first job since my head injury I was run over by a car making an illegal left turn. I broke my shoulder in two places and so far I have had two surgeries. I now not working after my initial struggle to get back to work after my head injury. One thing that these car and bike accidents has given me is a great appreciation of all the city's public transit systems. I wish I had a bike lane like Montreal has to protect me 5 yrs ago.

trainrover

August 15th, 2008, 11:04 PM

^^ English radio's been complaining about our unsafe bicycle lanes, I can't help agreeing with them after the close calls and one wipeout I witnessed so far this summer.

I was incredulous at the weekly automobile accidents that I learned about living in Vancouver proper for nearly seven years -- if I didn't didn't see (witness) one there for myself, then I certainly either heard a nearby one or saw the aftermath of one about one hour or so later...

GTS

August 17th, 2008, 09:23 AM

Habfanman

August 19th, 2008, 12:31 AM

Habfanman

August 19th, 2008, 01:55 AM

I didn't realize the bike lanes were unsafe. It was my first time seeing them and I thought it was a great idea to separate them from automobile traffic. I imagine the accidents happen at intersections?

I ride the Rachel, Brebeuf, Cherrier, Berri pistes often and the de Maisonneuve through downtown and they are a LOT safer than dodging cars, buses and trucks on the street. The people you have to look out for are other cyclists, the ones with the bike courrier/cowboy mentality. These are the same goofs that make all cyclists look bad by not obeying traffic signals and trying to set olympic speed records.

Many people think that they don't have to be cautious if they're on a separated path. That is a mistake. Some of the things you have to watch out for:

1) Pedestrians, especially out-of-towners who have never seen a bike lane and use them as a convenient place to stand while waiting at an intersection. This happens a lot on Berri, particularly at Ste-Catherine. Every cyclist should have a bell or a horn to signal wayward pedestrians.

2) Cars making left turns. This applies particularly on de Maisonneuve because it is new and many drivers aren't accustomed to the lane being there. Pay attention, be ready to stop and you'll be fine.

3) Weekends. The expanding network is a victim of its own success on weekends. Rachel/Brebeuf intersection is jammed on a nice summer day and the Lachine Canal area is packed with velotourists, bladers and everyone else. Slow-the-fuck down!

Riding on separated lanes is a godsend, much better than painted lines on the street which are often used as parking spaces or an extra lane for vehicles. You have to treat them the same as you would driving a car on the road. You have to obey the signs, slow down when traffic is heavy and always be careful. Bottom line: I'd much rather get into an accident with another cyclist than with a car.

The city currently has almost 500 km's of mostly separated lanes and has pledged to increase that to 800 km's by 2011. The public bike system pilot has been launched and will be in full swing next spring with 2400 public bikes available from 300 stations and the Mavelocity bike station is set to open as well in 2009.

I've posted a lot of cycling info and photos here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=599584

GTS

August 20th, 2008, 02:18 PM

habsfan

August 20th, 2008, 04:59 PM

On a per-capita basis does anyone know which province smokes the most?

I thikn it's newfoundland. BUt I do know that Montreal has a higher proportion of Smokers(vs. Toronto and Vancouver)

trainrover

August 20th, 2008, 07:50 PM

I imagine the accidents happen at intersections?
And in between intersections due to locals' incessant habit of jaywalking. Yeah, the highway signage informing left-hand turners (off de-Maisonneuve) ain't explanatory enough about the bikeway the motorist is about to traverse...

Habfanman

August 22nd, 2008, 07:52 PM

I just recently got back from a few days in your city and really enjoyed myself in your town. One thing that I noticed was that their seemed to be a lot more smokers in Montreal than here in Toronto or my old home of Vancouver. A,most every time I got off the Metro I got a big wiff of smoke as I made my way through the smoking crowd outside of stations. I notice this because I am a recovered smoker and I am not against smoking it just that I really noticed a lot more smokers while we were in Montreal. It stirred some cravings but I didn't cave in and I am still a non-smoker. On a per-capita basis does anyone know which province smokes the most?

I'd definately say there's more of a smoking culture here than anywhere else that I've lived. Smoking was only banned in bars in 2006 and Montrealers completely ignore the proximity to entrance regulations.. just like they ignore every other petty regulation! It makes it a little more difficult to quit. (but that does give me yet another lame excuse not to.. )

habsfan

August 22nd, 2008, 08:14 PM

but that does give me yet another lame excuse not to..

Yeah. Another smoker. I thought i was the only one!:cheers:

hkskyline

August 31st, 2008, 06:19 AM

MTC might zap bug-ridden tickets
Multi-trip cards jam new equipment
'There are still too many problems. I don't want to hide that,' transit official admits
29 August 2008
Montreal Gazette

Persistent technical problems with a $169-million ticketing system could force the Montreal Transit Corp. to abandon its freshly launched six-ticket magnetic cards.

The cards, which were to replace paper tickets by the beginning of 2010, continue to periodically jam and occasionally immobilize the bus and subway ticket-taking equipment recently installed across the system, officials conceded yesterday.

The magnetic-strip cards were launched in both one-trip and six-trip formats late last April.

After glitches quickly arose, the six-trip cards were rapidly pulled from service by the MTC in late May.

Yesterday, officials blamed the bugs on humidity, bent cards and electrical groundings on some buses. The difficulties should not be considered unusual, they said, given that the project requires 9,000 pieces of new equipment to be put into service.

Commuters made about 8.5 million trips using the magnetic cards between April 28 and Aug. 24, and the cards jammed new ticket-taking gear 5,904 times, said Serge Piotte, the MTC's project manager for the new fare system.

"About three-quarters of the time" the problems were with the new electronic farebox on MTC buses, he said. Often the troubles were intermittent and thus difficult to pin down. "It's not one single problem. There are series of difficulties."

Backed into a corner, the transit authority is now "seriously thinking" of just dropping the six-trip card altogether, MTC chairperson Claude Trudel said.

Transit officials still hope not to be forced into taking that drastic step, both Piotte and MTC spokesperson Marianne Rouette insisted,

"The volume of transactions" using the magnetic-strip cards "has tripled during the past two months," Piotte said, "but the number of problems has doubled.

"So the proportion of problems is going down - but not as fast as it should.

"There are still too many problems. I don't want to hide that."

The MTC hopes to resume sales of the six-trip cards "in several weeks," Rouette said, after pinning down and fixing the buggy performance.

However, she added, she could not provide a new target date for any such resurrection.

In some cases, a user's magnetic multi-trip card has been swallowed by the new equipment and the passenger was forced to trek to one of five MTC service centres to collect a refund.

That happened to " fewer than 1,000" customers since spring, Piotte estimated

During the past few months, Rouette and other public-relations staff at the MTC had continually played down snags in the new system.

After the MTC stopped selling the six-trip card in May, it waited more than a month before it acknowledged the backtrack.

Rouette had insisted July 7 that "the only reason" six-trip cards had been dropped for the summer was a desire to ease congestion for specific events "such as the jazz festival and Just for Laughs." She said then that the MTC would reinstate sales of the six-trip card Sept. 2, - which falls on Tuesday next week.

Habfanman

August 31st, 2008, 11:32 PM

malek

September 2nd, 2008, 08:28 PM

Those stupid paper tickets are annoying and slow.

The other day a lady was preceding me, so she passed, the "doors" were still open and I put my ticket in the machine, it was accepted and the doors closed on without me having any time to pass. I took the ticket again, and put it back but it was voided. What a joke.

trainrover

September 4th, 2008, 09:27 PM

Those stupid paper tickets are
über 1960s...

trainrover

September 19th, 2008, 07:36 PM

I'd forgot to share this article:

Slick new métros come with $1.2B price tag
Reduced maintenance costs expected. Bombardier, Alstom bid for contract to replace circa-1960s subway trains

JAMES MENNIE
The Gazette

Friday, August 01, 2008

For $1.2 billion, you'll be able to walk from one end of your métro train to the other, have less of a chance the subway train's doors will close on you and maybe - just maybe - have an air-conditioned ride during the summer months.

The Montreal Transport Corp. is shopping around to buy 342 new métro cars to replace a fleet of subway trains that have been in service since the mid-1960s.

And MTC chairperson Claude Trudel told reporters yesterday that the transit authority has earmarked $1.2 billion for the purchase - $800 million for the cars, the rest for training, renovation of the existing métro system to accommodate the new cars, interest costs and inflation.

Three-quarters of the contract will be paid for by the provincial government, the remaining 25 per cent by the MTC.

The trains sought by the MTC will be single-bodied, allowing passengers access from one end of the vehicle to the other. Cameras will survey the interior of the cars, handicapped access will be improved and transit authority officials say they're contemplating equipping the trains - which will be deployed on the Orange Line between 2012 and 2014 - with air conditioning.

"Montrealers are going to be seeing the kind of métro train they've never seen before," said MTC director of operations Carl Desrosiers during a briefing session on the purchase held by the transit authority.

"There will be more space inside ... and this train will be less expensive to maintain."

Other differences Montrealers will notice on the trains include:

n Three doors per car, one fewer than on the models now in service but wider and installed on the outside of the train. This allows the subway car's walls to be thinner and its floorspace correspondingly larger, permitting more passengers to be accommodated per train.

Each door will be controlled independently by its own sensor system rather than a driver opening and closing all the train's doors at once, meaning reopening the door if someone gets stuck in it will less time consuming.

"Sometimes, in (a crowded station), it's very difficult for a driver to efficiently close (all) the doors, there's always somebody getting their briefcase stuck," Desrosiers said. "When the driver has to reopen and close the doors, there's a chance someone else gets stuck trying to get on - the train can be stuck for a minute or a minute and half.

"That can be a problem because there's a two-minute, 20-second interval between trains, and that delay can go all the way down the line. "

n Wheelchair access will be provided - two spaces at each end of the train, while chairs with flip-up seats will allow cyclists and commuters pushing strollers more room. While that access will be available by 2014, Trudel did acknowledge the MTC is still in the middle of a 20-year project to make all its stations accessible to wheelchairs.

n Surveillance cameras will be activated whenever an emergency brake is pulled, a door becomes stuck or someone picks up an intercom phone to speak to the driver.

n A signal will sound when the métro doors are about to close, and a light above the door will give the same message to commuters who are hard of hearing.

n The possibility the new trains will be air conditioned. Desrosiers was less than sanguine about the prospect, saying it would be expensive and air conditioned trains would end up blowing their heat exhaust into the stations they pulled in to.

Today's call for tenders by the transit authority ends a five-month detour on the MTC's road to replacing its aging fleet of MR-63 subway cars - the shaking, rattling, patched-up models commuters ride on the subway's Green Line - some of which have been in service since the subway opened in 1966.

Last February, the Quebec government decided not to appeal a Superior Court judgment that rules the contract to construct the subway cars, which was given to Bombardier Inc., had to be subject to a bidding process.

The court ruling, rendered a month earlier, was the result of a challenge of Quebec's decision by Alstom Canada Inc.

The MTC started a bidding process from scratch, an operation that included providing Alstom all information about the contract already provided to Bombardier.

Desrosiers said that even then, every foreign manufacturer that might have been interested in bidding on the contract also had to be brought up to speed.

"In the end, however," he said, "the only firms that were interested were Bombardier and Alstom."

jmennie@thegazette.canwest.com

GTS

September 19th, 2008, 09:53 PM

I find it hard to believe those cars have been around for that long. The maintenance of them is great. My wife, son and I were in Montreal this summer and I checked out the Metro quite a bit while we were there. One thing I noticed is that the cars are quite a bit smaller then Toronto's (T1) cars, where I currently live, but, they are larger then my old hometown of Vancouver's Skytrain cars. The article didn't state it but I imagine they are going to keep the rubber tires because of the grades needed to climb in your system.

MrColombia

September 21st, 2008, 01:56 AM

Hey! how much is a ride on the Metro? I will be going up to Montreal next month and it would be nice to know this stuff!

skyboi

September 22nd, 2008, 04:45 PM

2.75 canadian dollars for a Metro ride including a transfer directly to Buses on the street right after you leave Metro stattion ,weekly pass is 19.25 dollars ,monthly pass is 66.25 dollars _Tourist pass for one day cost 9 dollars , for three day pass cost 17 dollars . All passes are usable for Metro and Buses around the City anytime !

Homer J. Simpson

September 22nd, 2008, 10:35 PM

Has there been any sort of rendering of the new trains yet?

ssiguy2

September 22nd, 2008, 11:01 PM

Rumors

September 23rd, 2008, 01:57 AM

ssiguy2

September 23rd, 2008, 08:59 AM

What?

For people with an answer to my question.........any info?

MrColombia

September 23rd, 2008, 09:47 AM

skyboi

September 23rd, 2008, 05:49 PM

OMG I had no idea that the Metro trains were that old. Do they have to use a front crank to get them started every morning?

BTW, how long are Metro's station platforms and how long is the standard train? In metric please and does anyone have the current dimensions of the individual cars themselves? Thanks.

Old ? I have never though Montreal Metro trains are old , I find them even looking more modern then Toronto's IMO and sleak maybe Montreal does'nt have tons of cash in it's coffer but we made our trains and buses looking good as well as our Metro stations as for measurement I can't tell you because I never bring a ruler to the Metro to measure them hehe , but there was an ex fellow from BC stated that ours were smaller than TO's but bigger than VOC's skytrains so you do the math yourself my friend or just make a visist to MTL and find out it's not so boring here though :)

MexiQuebecois

September 23rd, 2008, 07:20 PM

Gracias :)

Make sure you go to Jean-Talon market you'll find lots of Spanish speakers over there :)
BTW I'm new to the forum, well.... I've been lurking around for months but I finally decided to create an account :banana:

trainrover

September 23rd, 2008, 07:31 PM

The maintenance of them is great.
Thank you, I appreciate knowing somebody else noticing how marvelous their upkeep is.

I've hounded (only) a few local officials, showing them the potential of the older fleet at garnering instant recognition from their all-likely prospect at becoming heritage. The MR63 is so 1960s -- back in the day, it impressed any rider. It really could become Montréal's version of Paris's well-recognised Sprague-Thomson fleets hailing from 1908. Our MR63 is the only fleet of the pair here equipped with --uhm-- suspension.

With our power problems affecting seven eighths of the network early last week, however, I learnt that our newer MR73 fleet draws more power than the MR63 does (hence all the tripping of the power-surge triggers). It's clear I'm riding a tin that makes up that suspension-less fleet, plus there's nothing worthy about its prospect at heritage either.

The article didn't state it but I imagine they are going to keep the rubber tires because of the grades needed to climb in your system.
Another good point, what with The Gazette's flagrant(?) article some 16 months or so ago written by some local urban transport planner, altogether elaborating upon his suggestion that our crosstown Blue Line here oughtta be converted to trams (from metros). (I doubt Montréal'll ditch all that rubber :).)

Has there been any sort of rendering of the new trains yet?
No, there hasn't been, which doesn't surprise me...I wager the first lowly sketch'll be published come June.

OMG I had no idea that the Metro trains were that old.
The joke is just that: the MR63 ain't that old, what with nothing but its wholly indoor existence (all our units are stabled underground).

The newer MR73 fleet is the one that feels and sounds old without looking so.

BTW, how long are Metro's station platforms and how long is the standard train? In metric please and does anyone have the current dimensions of the individual cars themselves?
Roughly: 152 metres long -- 8' 4" wide -- 57' feet motor car, 55' trailer (you might be better off searching these yourself).

GTS

October 19th, 2008, 08:04 PM

Today's Montreal Gazette reports: 'Transit funding en route
City will add bus lanes, update fleet. Transport minister responds to MTC wish list.'

Hopefully they find some funds to further expand the metro as well- that will definitely bring in more riders.

I was at last months TTC meeting at city hall and some MTC reps were there doing a presentation about the Opus card. Toronto is a bit behind a lot of city's regarding these new fare cards hopefully our own Presto card takes off soon.

trainrover

October 28th, 2008, 10:21 PM

I was at last months TTC meeting at city hall and some MTC reps were there doing a presentation about the Opus card.
That's queer, especially when considering our MTC here has known for months now of its own botched purchase.

Funny to think we're now onto our third generation of turnstiles before even embarking on designing our third fleet of trains.

Anyhow, I'm going to miss our second generation of turnstiles. 20 years on and they're still of the finest quality. Their internal hydraulics yield the smoothest revolution of any model of turnstile I've had to pass through, whereas the new ones, ludicrously set at too low a height, have needed oiling or lubricating right from the beginning, which altogether makes me wonder how crappy our new trains risk being!

Mind you, the MTC appears to have learned its lessons from installing poor escalators, coz --again, another third generation's worth!-- our latest model of escalators seems to function the best of the three.

GTS

November 12th, 2008, 07:41 PM

I just read in today's Montreal Gazette that the PQ has just announced $3.5B for public transit. The article states that this money will be for transit in the Greater Montreal area over the next ten years. Some of the projects listed in the article that will see this money are:

-extending the Blue Line one station eastward
-tramways to Old Montreal
-express bus line on Henri Bourassa Blvd.
-light rail lines from Brossard to downtown
-a train link from Trudeau airport to downtown
-a commuter train to Repentigny and another one from Longueuil to Chateauguay
-reserved bus lines on highways 13, 15 and 19

Congratulations to Montreal and the province of Quebec for supporting transit in this area. I have been reading a few Montreal transit forums and what I have learned is that the eastward extension of the Blue Line is really needed. I thought they needed more station then just one station. I am glad the Metro is being expanded some more, hopefully the Blue Line gets more then one station though, I hope the little Yellow Line get an extension as well.
That is close to the area that I was born and raised so I hope it gets some of this investment as well.

I like the fact that the funds will be spent on diversifying the transit system. Commuter rail to the airport would be great- I wonder what kind of headways will be planned for the trains using the airport station. Bus rapid transit is pretty effective at moving a lot of people per hour, not as many as the metro but you get more bang for your buck with this kind of infrastructure. Light Rail would greatly reduce the amount of air pollution.

Hopefully my wife and I can make it down again to see the Metro again. I hope Ontario makes a similar announcement soon here for the Greater Toronto Area.

Habfanman

November 13th, 2008, 06:16 AM

GTS

November 13th, 2008, 05:54 PM

Yes, I read the Globe and it is just a campaign promise. I was hoping it was an announcement. The Globe article stated that most of the transit proposals are for the suburbs where the PQ needs to drum up support. Hopefully something does come from all of this, at least the Blue Line extension a couple of stations. I thought the trolley cars for Old Montreal were quite appropriate for that tourist area my wife and I visited last summer.

GTS

November 13th, 2008, 06:12 PM

It is a tramway to Old Montreal not trolley buses which are appropriate as well.

trainrover

November 13th, 2008, 08:34 PM

what I have learned is that the eastward extension of the Blue Line is really needed. I thought they needed more station then just one station.
In addition to submerging another line underneath either boulevard Saint-Michel or Pie-IX, we need several stations expanded both east and west on the Blue Line.

I am glad the Metro is being expanded some more.
Just to clarify, two metro extensions are under study, neither of which is close to being approved: extending the Blue Line by one stop to Pie-IX, and the western arm of the Orange Line by two stops to Gare Bois-Franc. The tunneling beyond even! Gare Bois-Franc was achieved in the early 1980s; the tunnel terminates at rue De-Salaberry and could already provide a Bois-Franc terminus with its arrière-gare (where trains are reversed). I don't know if the tunnel is bare of tracks and equipment, but am guessing that carving out station facilities for Poirier and Gare-Franc stations would be necessary.

I hope Ontario makes a similar announcement soon here for the Greater Toronto Area.
I wouldn't, were I you, coz for decades now all we've been lumped is (customarily fashionable?) talk-talk.

trainrover

November 13th, 2008, 08:42 PM

Transit union boss backs PQ

If you support public system, I'll urge members to vote for your party, Benoît tells Marois

The Gazette

Thursday, November 13, 2008

The Parti Québécois has obtained its first enthusiastic union endorsement of the election campaign, but it comes with some serious strings attached.

Claude Benoît, head of the union representing the Montreal Transit Corp.'s 3,800 bus drivers and métro ticket-takers, loudly interrupted Péquiste leader Pauline Marois's news conference yesterday - pledging $3.5 billion over 10 years in promised transit improvements in Greater Montreal - to offer his support on Dec. 8 after she said a PQ government would not use public-private partnerships for future transit improvements.

"If you guarantee the transit system in Montreal will remain public," Benoît shouted to a surprised-looking Marois, "then I'll tell my members to vote Parti Québécois on the condition there won't be PPP; it will be public."

Public-private partnerships, involving the use of private consortiums to build, manage and operate large-scale projects, have been favoured by the governing Liberals and have worried unionized public transit workers as their bosses eye potential cost-savings of PPPs and job cuts.

But Marois said the trend would be reversed under the PQ.

"The results of PPPs in recent years are very troubling," she told the news conference, held inside the bustling Longueuil bus terminus.

"Management of the projects, as well as engineering know-how and profits, are going to Australian and Spanish companies."

Marois said she has nothing against foreign investors, but, "we'll have to revise this (PPP) formula and see why this isn't going well, and why each time Quebec firms aren't at the head of these projects."

Benoît said his support should influence many in the rank and file and that he will also try to sway 3,000 other public transit employees who are, like those in the MTC union, part of the Quebec Federation of Labour.

The QFL, the province's largest umbrella labour group, with 500,000 members, announced Sunday it would not back any political party in the Quebec election.

The union has been an ally of the Parti Québécois in previous elections, including in 2007.

"If Madame Marois wanted to show the same kind of goodwill on health care and on sovereignty, then the QFL might change its mind," Benoît said, alluding to PPPs planned for superhospitals and the PQ's weak support for sovereignty in this campaign.

The PQ's transit proposals include extending the métro's blue line by one station eastward, a tramway to Old Montreal, a rail link to Trudeau airport, express bus lines on Henri Bourassa Blvd., a light-rail line from Brossard to downtown, a commuter train to Repentigny and another from Longueuil to Châteauguay, and reserved bus lines on Highways 13, 15 and 19.

Many of the ideas already have the approval of the Liberals, but the PQ's plans would increase public transit use by 16 per cent by 2013, double what the Liberals are aiming for, Marois said.

Normand Parisien, executive director of the Transport 2000 Quebec lobby group, praised the PQ for its transit policies, but said $3.5 billion probably wouldn't be enough to pay for it all.

No tolls or other fees to pay for the measures were announced, for obvious reasons, he said.

"They don't want to discourage voters," Parisien added.