Snow Hill Station - Something's Up.

[Splop]

Went to Snow Hill Today, and noticed that that god-awful green entrance was fenced off, and a huge chunk of it has been cut off. Have there been any reports of a Snow Hill re-vamp?

On a possibly related note, there were very official looking people on the platfrom marking out areas with white spray paint. Anybody know anything?

[ROYAL BLUE]

Hello newbie,
Not sure myself what there doing - although someone did have a picture last week of the green entrance way being dismatled.

[Nacho]

Welcome to the board Splop.

Snow Hill is to get a few retouches and two new entrances(well one is just a makeover).Mind you that spray business could be Smileyface cheering up the station!!






On a possibly related note, there were very official looking people on the platfrom marking out areas with white spray paint. Anybody know anything?

[Splop]

Thanks all. :)

Well it's about time Snow Hill got a makeover. That green scaffolding of a roof was just begging to be ripped off. I wonder what they'll replace it with?

And who's responsible for the new entrance? Chiltern?

[morestoreysplease]

It's probably going to be designed to match up with the entrance planned for Livery St. Hi Splop!

[U475 Foxtrot]

The landlords (chiltern?) want to make more of the the offices on either side of the entrance to the station. Currently the entrance is very dated. The green canopy and raised flower beds are being removed and a worthy new public space is being fashioned along with new conopies the entrances to the offices either side which will make them more marketable.
Snow hill fiends check this out http://www.railaroundbirmingham.co.uk/Stations/snow_hill.php

[mk61]

ah yes - that website cleared up a casual curiosity of mine. I've always wondered why there seemed to be an abandoned stretch of track between smethwick galton bridge and snow hill. That abandoned bridge pier solves the puzzle - Snow Hill used to be a platform wider. You can see the old station walls if you stand at the northbound trains platform at the western side of the station.

Snow Hill needs rebuilding almost as much as New Street does, its only barely redeemed by its natural lighting and open-air platforms.

[Splop]

I've just come across this:

All change at Snow Hill Station Jun 2 2005


Work has started on removing Birmingham Snow Hill Station's "infamous" green canopy fronting Colmore Row as part of a complete multi million pound refurbishment of the immediate area.

The canopy has been in place for 17 years and sits between One and Nine Colmore Row, both prime landmark office buildings in the heart of the city.

Respective building owners Richardson Barberry Developments and Sun Alliance & London Assurance Co, represented by F & C Property Asset Management, together with Network Rail are working together to create a new public space in the immediate surroundings and believe the new piazza will be a welcome addition to the cityscape.

Daniel Plummer, head of regional offices at F&C said: "The green canopy is a high profile landmark in the city but has now served its time.

"It will disappear as part of the multi-million pound refurbishment programme that incorporates the frontages of Snow Hill Station, One and Nine Colmore Row and will create a new piazza."

The demolition of the green canopy is the start of the transformation work which will include the introduction of new stone paving and street lighting which will enhance the entrance to both buildings as well as the gateway to Snow Hill Station used by thousands of people everyday.

Work is still ongoing at the multi million pound refurbishment of Nine Colmore Row.

[Splop]

And another thing. (Slightly Off-topic)

Here is a picture of Snow Hill in 1990 before the line to Smethwick (The Jewellery Line) was re-instated.

http://img297.echo.cx/img297/8992/bsw25039020jz.jpg

I've circled what I believe to be a missed opportunity. 2 remnants of plaform (which incidentally, are still there). They could easily have used these and re-connected the line to Wolverhampton Low Level, using the old trackbed and giving West Bromwich it's much need rail connection back, so why, why didn't they?

[Nacho]

I imagine because although the the Metro wasn't finished until May 1999 it was projected in the mid-eighties.Thus the land was kept for the Metro.
I hope that they do a good job of that frontage.Sounds interesting.

[ROYAL BLUE]

I dont know why, but i always find abandoned railway lines facinating!

[morestoreysplease]

If you look around (and old maps) Royal, you'll see things like:

The old line to Harborne that goes under the Hagley Road near Choices video store.
The old station at Kings Heath at the bottom of the High St is now a DIY store
The old station at Moseley (hopefully to return) just up from the pub on Woodbridge (near old Trafalgar pub)
The old viaduct in Selly Oak that used to branch off to Halesowen
The old viaduct in Digbeth at the end of Fazeley St that is completely on its own.

Yeah fascinating - I think it's a bloke thing!

[ROYAL BLUE]

Yep definatly a bloke thing. Ive seen the viaduct in digbeth. cheers MSP, Ill have a look out for the others

[Splop]

Sorry for bumping this thread, but there's something going on at Snow Hill again.


Whilst travelling to Stratford-Upon-Avon on Monday, The train had to stop at platform 1, and where I saw guys in orange coats spraying white paint last month, there was something being built on it. Anybody know what it is? And is it connnected in some way to the new entrance?

[cookoid_0]

If you look around (and old maps) Royal, you'll see things like:

The old line to Harborne that goes under the Hagley Road near Choices video store.
The old station at Kings Heath at the bottom of the High St is now a DIY store
The old station at Moseley (hopefully to return) just up from the pub on Woodbridge (near old Trafalgar pub)


I know these three sites. Here are some photos on a strip for easy comparison showing the old Moseley Station and how the area looks today. (56k apologies....)

http://www.zen46653.zen.co.uk/pictures/woodbridge2.jpg

[Nacho]

Great photos .....thanks for posting them.It would be great if they opened up a few of the old stations.Moseley could certainly do with an alternative form of transport.

[ROYAL BLUE]

wow

[mk61]

good stuff there cookoid - I'd image thats what the old curzon street station looked like. Shame that line is blocked off now - could have formed a metro spur into the mailbox. Holiday Wharf got in the way though.

[Nacho]

Here's a letter to the Express and Star concerning New St alternatives.

An alternative to New Street
Letters
Jun 16, 2005, 08:26


Instead of spending £500 million or more on Birmingham New Street station, why not construct a North East-West curve from St Andrew's Junction to Bordesley to bring trains from the NE or SW through Moor Street and Snow Hill to Worcester via Stourbridge Junction?

London has several stations for its size so why should not Birmingham have at least three stations serving the city centre, with access to other routes including Wolverhampton. The congestion at New Street is therefore avoided.

Freight uses the Camp Hill and Bescot-Stechford lines, while passengers use the Black Country and WCML lines.

An alternative way to spend our money would be to reconstruct stations at Willenhall and James Bridge (Darlaston) to better serve the Wolverhampton-Walsall service or reinstate the Stourbridge Junction-Dudley-Walsall-Lichfield line with its cross-conurbation connections at Stourbridge, Dudley Port, Wednesbury, Walsall and Lichfield City.

R J Wilcox, Chanterelle Gardens, Wolverhampton.

[AN44588]

R J Wilcox should shut the f**k up. How can you complain about redeveloping New Street. It is the biggest ball of s**t in the city.

[Nacho]

Too right AN44 !

[Martin G]

There is so much space available on the Snow Hill Station site that I'm just amazed they never planned ahead when they re-opened the station back in 1987 and allowed for MORE platforms - as we all know we've since been faced with the crazy situation of platform 1 being used for Midland Metro services since the opening of the tram system, leaving only three long platform faces for the other services. And now we get that old "reaching capacity" chestnut where the station cannot cope with the number of trains at peak hours or something...... Well, they could have addressed this by creating extra platform space by indenting say two of the faces on the north side allowing for terminating services as well (the platforms are long enough), thus meaning the terminating services don't foul the through tracks. This was what I suggested all along, and it's only NOW - some 30 years later - that they are finally seeing some semblance of sense and doing something similar at Birmingham New Street - I think they're indenting two of the 12 platform faces to create two new terminal bays, thereby increasing the capacity to 14 platforms for the time being prior to any major redevelopment scheme. So why the hell not Snow Hill - there's all that space to play with and like some of you said earlier it's a classic case of lost opportunities due in no small part to British Rail (as was then) and their frugal tight-fisted economising and rationalising - something now even worse under the private sector of course (see length of trains to get the full gen on THAT one).

:bleep:

[Smileyface]

Ahh, a good old Martin G rant. Feels just like the good old days....some very valid points brought up though. 'Lost Opportunities' that should be Birminghams new city motto :bash:

[Martin G]

It used to be "Forward" but the way the blue/red logo was it looked like a V-sign didn't it?

Well that's apt now, all considered, as in the council saying "Up yours!" to any possible new skyscraper schemes and rail/road infrastrucure improvement projects! :(

[ROYAL BLUE]

update
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/djguinness/brum040705081.jpg

[Blunther]

Been on a merry old trek today then matey?

It's quite good fun ain't it? :)

[ROYAL BLUE]

Yeah, its suprising how enjoyable it is. of course you get people looking at you in a strange way, but i found that funny

[jolon]

It looks ten times better without the vile green cannopy things. I hope they do a good job with that bit of open space in the middle.

[birminghamculture]

Ohhh ... im not sure if theres anything to it but, this was in the CONSTRUCTION pictures from Images of Birmingham, maybe somethings gonna happen soon.

the Title is "Snowhill prior to redevelopment"

http://www.imagesofbirmingham.co.uk/php-cgi/gallery/albums/construction/08CH0805_150.jpg

[Martin G]

Pigs will fly before anything radical happens...... :D

[Zenith]

ive called in ze germans for an airstrike so at least demolition will happen soon !

[Zim Flyer]

ive called in ze germans for an airstrike so at least demolition will happen soon !

or paint it with a big red cross and pretend it belongs to the Red Cross and the US will blow it up ;)

[Zenith]

even better just hang a load of union jacks on it....and red crosses

[woodhousen]

wow, hello zenth, aint seen u for a while!

[city living]

Ballymore have selected two agents to help them with the development. They say that detailed planning application on the first phase will be before the end of this year.

[woodhousen]

source???

[birminghamculture]

Ballymore have selected two agents to help them with the development. They say that detailed planning application on the first phase will be before the end of this year.

Thats good news, lets hope anything here has a big un, so the skyline spreads out more

[city living]

It's in the business section of icbirmingham on page 2

[birminghamculture]

Here we go :cheers1:

Double agents on Snow Hill scheme Aug 19 2005


Developer Ballymore Properties has appointed a dual force of property agents to handle one of Birmingham's most prestigious developments.

Colliers CRE and CB Richard Ellis (CBRE) will represent the multi-million pound mixed-use scheme adjacent to Snow Hill Station in the city centre.

Proposals for the £200 million project include 721,200 sq ft (67,000 sq m) of offices, 200 apartments together with retail and leisure overlooking a new public plaza in front of St Chad's Cathedral.

Richard Probert, of Ballymore Properties, said: "Snow Hill is a regional scheme of UK significance which requires a mix of international marketplace knowledge combined with a good grasp of regional competition and awareness. Both organisations have extensive experience working not only in the region, but also in comparable markets around the world.

"Colliers CRE emphasises a consultative approach, while CBRE favour a broker orientated method of activity - a combination that will create a force to be reckoned with on this landmark scheme. Both firms are involved in some of the biggest new developments and regional schemes in the UK."

Outline planning consent for the 3.65 acre site was achieved earlier this year and a detailed planning application for the first phase of public space and offices will be submitted before the end of the year. The overall redevelopment of the Snow Hill site will lead the next phase of city centre regeneration, breaking the concrete collar at Birmingham's Queensway ring road.

Julian Shellard, chairman of regional business at CB Richard Ellis, said: "New construction at Snow Hill is now about to happen.

"It is very exciting for CB Richard Ellis to be acting for Ballymore alongside Colliers CRE on this project, which will bring much needed development space into a barren market.

"The economy is set fair and demand is already showing distinct signs of improvement. I believe the timing for this development could not be better, particularly as decentralisation from the South-east and London is now firmly back on the corporate agenda."

Since the redevelopment of Snow Hill Station in the 1980s, the land next to the station has been used as a car park.

Ian Cornock of Colliers CRE, added: "It has always been the aim of the city council to secure a major commercial development as part of the regeneration of the city centre and Ballymore is most certainly now on board.

"This site offers huge potential to both indigenous and overseas investors and we know that the marketplace is hungry for such an opportunity.

"The effect of combining our expertise in this joint agent venture has been quickly recognised by Ballymore and we look forward to delivering results quickly."

[woodhousen]

721,000sqft of office space is ALOT

[Martin G]

All this fucking "breaking the concrete collar" bollocks we keep hearing about Brum's Queensway is starting to seriously get on my wick. I mean, it doesn't take much effort or expertise or architectural dexterity to come up with a dynamic concept to BUILD NEW RAFT STRUCTURES OVER THE INNER RING ROAD AROUND THE ST CHAD'S CIRCUS AREA AND THUS PRESERVE THE THROUGH TRAFFIC MOVEMENT UNDERGROUND OUT OF SIGHT BENEATH THE DEVELOPMENT AREA.....then they can stick whatever they wish - plazas, new squares, new green areas with trees, buildings, etc, on top of this covered area linking the Cathedral with the Snow Hill site. I mean, if other towns and cities can do this (think of Hatfield for example - where the A1(M) tunnels beneath the shopping city) and yet still preserve the main traffic arteries but banish them to subterrannean levels in tunnels, then why have Brum become so goddamned reluctant and uncommitted about pursuing these options?

At this rate they will have to upgrade the existing [Middle] Ring Road to a much higher capacity specification with improved split level junctions, etc, if their final aim is to remove ALL through traffic from every single main road that lies within this A4540 Middleway area......which is what I presume they are hell bent on doing over the next 20 years or so - thus making Brum ANTI-car city as opposed to the opposite in the 1960s-1980s.

[woodhousen]

i dont wory Martin G, the good thing with this is that the concrete collar here is underground which aint going to change...so maintian through flow....but instead they are adapting the st chads circus....which does need changing. it has reached it capacity and with lights on the round about and before your get to the round about, the jams often flow all the way onto the rig road and back upto paradise circus and the tunnels...... its cant get much worse.......

....anyway, i know for a fact that the main western pass will not change, the council are hapy with that....just the junctions above / below it......(paradise/st chads/lancaster)

[Martin G]

i dont wory Martin G, the good thing with this is that the concrete collar here is underground which aint going to change...so maintian through flow....but instead they are adapting the st chads circus....which does need changing. it has reached it capacity and with lights on the round about and before your get to the round about, the jams often flow all the way onto the rig road and back upto paradise circus and the tunnels...... its cant get much worse.......

....anyway, i know for a fact that the main western pass will not change, the council are hapy with that....just the junctions above / below it......(paradise/st chads/lancaster)


Well let's hope any new intersection redesign at St Chads keeps the bloody thing as GRADE SEPARATED - I can't be done with any more of these boring surface level junctions controlled by frigging traffic lights (like we've now got on the western flank of the former Queensway) - that would surely defeat the objective of keeping the A38 traffic [through from Suffolk Street to Lancaster Circus Flyover and hence to the A38(M)] actually MOVING instead of snarled up in tailbacks as the signal-controlled junctions effectively slow everything down even further.

Besides, if they remove the flyover at Lancaster Circus, that would be a very very dumb move..... that will mean M6-bound traffic will be caught up in the tailbacks at the blooming roundabouts with the other traffic turning off at various points (just like all traffic does on the Middleway at Dartmouth anyway where there should have been a flyover giving Ring Road traffic direct right of way over that roundabout junction - quite why this was never put in - when there is clearly provision for such a flyover here - beats me.)

The whole point of flyovers is to keep through traffic moving - avoiding being caught up at the surface roundabout - by removing them this is effectively a backwards step isn't it?

[Zenith]

wow, hello zenth, aint seen u for a while!

Hi Woody, yeah well moved from Birmingham and a bit busy nowadays ! But I always monitor how Birminghams coming on, or not as in some cases lol Hope youre well :cheers:

[woodhousen]

you gona be postingn again?

[Splop]

Here we go :cheers1:

I guess that means that Snow Hill won't be getting the extra platform it desperatly needs.

[Martin G]

I guess that means that Snow Hill won't be getting the extra platform it desperatly needs.



I could never understand why they had to waste a perfectly valuable platform at Snow Hill in the first place by barricading it off just so they could run the Midland Metro Line through it - and yet not even utilise this face because a proper terminus for the tram stop was built some distance further to the south. What sort of pea-brained planning strategy was that?

There is so much extra space available at the Snow Hill throat anyway, they could have at least sited the Metro stop a little further away from the fourth platform....and now, of course they will be re-siting it anyway as the Metro extension becomes a reality. This means Smow Hill may yet get its fourth platform back.

However, even from the rebuilding of 1987 I felt that they could have at least incorporated an extra two indented bay platforms (created from existing outer platforms 1 and 4) into the layout - either facing north for terminating services from Worcester/Stourbridge (to complement the redeployment of the 3 Moor Street Terminal platforms for southbound services), or facing south to cater for the Chiltern Railways / London Paddington Expresses.

These would have provided ample additional capacity for all future train movements as the platforms as they were built are quite long already anyway.

I have posted up four diagrams I created showing how the Snow Hill layout looks as it does now, and how I would like to imagine it ought to look with extra platforms - both north and south options - added to it for future capacity provision.


KEY:
Heavy rail lines are in black/ platforms orange
Midland Metro lines are in blue, platforms green
L = Lift access to platforms
llllllll = escalators/stairs access


Diagram 1 is how it originally looked like when it reopened in 1987:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y89/mckopper/SNOWHILLDIAG1.jpg

Diagram 2 is how it currently looks with the Midland Metro stop utilising the fenced off 4th platform:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y89/mckopper/SNOWHILLDIAG2.jpg

Diagram 3 is how it appears with the Midland Metro remodelled to be a through station and the two additional southern-facing bay platforms indented into the faces of existing platforms 1 and 4 and then all platforms renumbered 1 to 6:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y89/mckopper/SNOWHILLDIAG3.jpg

Diagram 4 is the same but with the two new indented bay platforms facing northwards instead:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y89/mckopper/SNOWHILLDIAG4.jpg

[Splop]

My personal feelings are that the Metro is bloody awful. It's cramped, it's uncomfortable, it's noisy, the ride quality is utter shite and as for the track, well, my train set has better track than that thing. The sooner it get's ripped up and replaced with heavy rail the better, though I highly doubt that's going to happen, even though it's losing horrendous amounts of money.

[Martin G]

My personal feelings are that the Metro is bloody awful. It's cramped, it's uncomfortable, it's noisy, the ride quality is utter shite and as for the track, well, my train set has better track than that thing. The sooner it get's ripped up and replaced with heavy rail the better, though I highly doubt that's going to happen, even though it's losing horrendous amounts of money.

The tram cars are so bloody short for a start - they are the most pathetic-looking of all the UK tram systems - how many seats are there in each tram for goodness sakes?? About ten or something? And they're so low-down it IS a wonder they don't scrape the ground when they're running along the track. It appears that low-floor trams are the way forward, with only the Manchester and Newcastle Metro-cars bearing any kind of resemblance to the heavy rail vehicles they replaced - but then I gues those two systems fall into an intermediate class of light railway anyway - being more akin to trains than buses (as are most second generation UK tram / LRT systems). However, Nottingham, and Dublin appear to have some really attractive vehicles on their new systems - they piss all over the crappy toy-like Midland Metro cars.

Midland Metro as it is now is just a classic case of a once-ambitious idea for a city-wide transit system (that would revolutionise commuter travel) rendered ultimately half-arsed and lame in its final execution. Truly it is the embodiment of complete anti-climax as dictated by petty penny-pinching and decades of dithering and lack of commitment from central and local government and the relevant transport authorities - something which Birmingham seems so adept at in almost every aspect of its transport-related infrastructure and development, haven't you noticed? :(

Those last two diagrams I posted up above would remain dream concepts for the foreseeable future then.

[brum2003]

I think when.if the metro is finally extended, it will be rerouted. Freeing space at snowhill to reinstate the lost platform

[Martin G]

Well, obviously!!.......it's a given FACT that that indeed will be the case! There is no "I think" about it...... Which was why I made the point earlier about questioning why on earth they possessed such wisdom in routeing the Metro line via the fourth platform in the first place.... a damned stupid move if you ask me. Truly, the powers that be never ever think things out properly do they?

[brum2003]

who knows eh !

[pirlo_21]

the people in charge aint stupid they must have done it for any number of reasons, and they could all be postive reasons too

[brum2003]

i guess they knew that the extension would take longer than the 4 years originally planned as they had no funding, so using the platform at snow hill was the cheapest option at the time

and as we know, in our Public sector culture, the cheapest is always the best....even though in the long run it usually ends up costing more

Dont ya love this country

[woodhousen]

.................................hehe, i know something you dont know!

[Bachy Soletanche]

.................................hehe, i know something you dont know!

The meaning of life?

[Martin G]

With regard to what exactly Woody? My diagrams or something from the transport department? :?

[Elizabeth Kinoke]

My experiences of the Metro have been ok, it's fast, frequent, light rail with a more personl feel like a bus, the only problem I have found is that iasjlkkk a[=======EPO-LD'

[Martin G]

Huh???? Come again? :? :?

Fuckin' cryptic pranksters, what are they like?!?!?!?

[woodhousen]

there development og the site......

...nothing too big just yet but bare with me whilst i research it more and do a little more diging!

[Elizabeth Kinoke]

Huh???? Come again? :? :?

Fuckin' cryptic pranksters, what are they like?!?!?!?

http://www.riva.org.vt.edu/photo01/archive/Slideshow/kim%20boobs.jpg

[Martin G]

there development og the site......

...nothing too big just yet but bare with me whilst i research it more and do a little more diging!



I most certainly will NOT "bare with you whilst doing a bit of digging" Woody as, unlike yourself, I do not harbour such exhibitionist tendencies in me, sunshine..... :nono: ;)


(Although, it would appear, EK seems to have taken up your offer, the dirty depraved old scamp ....) :rofl: :rofl:

[Elizabeth Kinoke]

http://www.pervasivelight.com/blog/archives/plastic-head.jpg

[Martin G]

Phucque me it's Squarepusher!!!! :eek2:

[Elizabeth Kinoke]

http://www.bath.ac.uk/bime/images/used/homecraft%20bottom%20wiper.jpg

http://www.bath.ac.uk/bime/projects/bottom_wipers.htm

[woodhousen]

exhibitionist tendancies???????

[ROYAL BLUE]

what in the name of god have you lot been smoking?.......Can i have some
:yes: :clown: :nuts: :crazy2: :tongue4:

(ps. we need a stoned smiley)

[Spread]

A bit of boring news, the removal of the green canopies and there replacment with a new square is now complete. The result is best described as tame. I assume that once Ballymore have completed their scheme the square will be given more imaginative surfacing and lighting and perhaps even a bit of art to cheer it up.

[Spread]

Almost forgot the strange little area off St Chads circus now has hoardings around it. I don't know whether this is a scheme which has been missed by the collective radar or enabling works for the new square and traffic light junction which will eventually replace the island as planning gain for the Ballymore Snow Hill scheme. Anyone have any insight on this

[woodhousen]

is this the small plot which is between the road and the railway opposite St Chads???

if thats the case this is more likly to be the new enterance and roof for snowhill!

[Spread]

Come to think of it that seems the most plauseable explanation as they have started work on the new entrance in one of the vacant arches. I wonder whether they will have entrances both sides rather than just the Livery Street side. With the new road layout / square etc it would make a lot of sense.

[Splop]

KEY:
Heavy rail lines are in black/ platforms orange
Midland Metro lines are in blue, platforms green
L = Lift access to platforms
llllllll = escalators/stairs access


Diagram 4 is the same but with the two new indented bay platforms facing northwards instead:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y89/mckopper/SNOWHILLDIAG4.jpg


I'm going to reply to this post, as I'm using a different computer, and can now see the diagrams.

This Is my favorite layout, as it's seems the most practical for trains arriving from Stourbride and beyond.

[brum2003]

A bit of boring news, the removal of the green canopies and there replacment with a new square is now complete. The result is best described as tame. I assume that once Ballymore have completed their scheme the square will be given more imaginative surfacing and lighting and perhaps even a bit of art to cheer it up.


I believe Richardsons are involved with the front of the station and have been involveed with the plaza in front...thats why its bland, look at the space in front of 1 Colmore Square, looks tatty already !!!

[woodhousen]

... but to those of you who have ever caught the train from stourbridge, you'll know that there are three trains you can catch...... the Chiltern Marlybone service, the Dorridge service or the Leamington service....eitherway, None terminate at Snowhill!!!!

[Martin G]

Pah!! Bloody trainspotters! :tongue:

[birminghamculture]

*Good News!!!!!!!!!!

From the project manager himself (Birmingham Post)

It has been hard work and I won't be celebrating until we actually start construction at the begginning of next year.

Thing that im a bit intrigued about is this sentence ...

The first building won't be ready ready until second quarter 2008 - so that looks after the next 3 years just for the first building.

Now if his talking about just ONE building then this is very interesting news :yes:

The residential pahse will be 2009 and 2010



Yipee :cheers1:

[jolon]

I'm a bit confused. Are you talking about the development next to the station? Have you got the full article?

[birminghamculture]

Snow Hill development buddy, what we've been waiting for for years ;)

[jolon]

Excellent. But i am still lacking the info i crave!

Give me more.:eat: :)

[Martin G]

Nice Roast Pork Sandwiches.

Double.

[Steve-e-b]

The first building won't be ready ready until second quarter 2008 - so that looks after the next 3 years just for the first building.
Now if his talking about just ONE building then this is very interesting news
Are you 100% certain when the project manager infers the existence of 'other' buildings he is not referring to the Post&Mail buildings just across the way.

[birminghamculture]

Nah positive, this was just for the Snow Hill scheme, I cant find the article anymore though :( someone must of threw it away

[Soul_13]

The Snowhill development included the demolishion of St. Chads Circus. So I guess this is the starting point.

[Steve-e-b]

Nah positive, this was just for the Snow Hill scheme, I cant find the article anymore though :( someone must of threw it away
Oooh, all new then. That is exciting, can't wait to see the plans.
Lost that article ... did you check behind the sofa? It's always the last place people look. I doubt UN weapons inspectors ever checked Saddam Husseins sofa. :|

[birminghamculture]

Yeh lol, nah i've checked no good, it was in the buisness section of saturdays post. Good clear article though, just hope its better then the 2 - 11 storey office towers and 15 storey residential block ...

[Martin G]

Looks more and more likely that this much-trumpeted Snow Hill scheme is going to scream "Anti-Climax" from the top of its 4-storey podium in pretty much the same way that the Post and Mail scheme has already done then.....when the fuck are we going to see some kick-ass tower proposals for Brum that aren't pathetic cop-out short-arse 15-storey 60 metre pieces of squat-sized crap for fucks sakes?? :(

[jolon]

When the powers that be sort out the way this city is run.

[Zenith]

Looks more and more likely that this much-trumpeted Snow Hill scheme is going to scream "Anti-Climax" from the top of its 4-storey podium in pretty much the same way that the Post and Mail scheme has already done then.....when the fuck are we going to see some kick-ass tower proposals for Brum that aren't pathetic cop-out short-arse 15-storey 60 metre pieces of squat-sized crap for fucks sakes??

I can sum all this up in three words ! Fuck my hat

[i love bham]

Martin G
dont wanna be rude but you bored me bac in the day, and well you still do...
look at the sunshine mate its beautiful.

[jolon]

Double post.

[jolon]

Martin G
dont wanna be rude but you bored me bac in the day, and well you still do...
look at the sunshine mate its beautiful.

Yeah, lighten up a bit Martin! I'm still waiting to read a single positive post from you, and iand i've been posting on here for three years. :(

Saying that though, your heavy sarcasm and over the top cynisism make me laugh, so i'll let you off. :)

[Rigadon]

Martin G
dont wanna be rude but you bored me bac in the day, and well you still do...
look at the sunshine mate its beautiful.

welcome back

[Biosonic]

Don't know whether we have already seen these, but I had a look through Ballymore's website...

http://www.ballymore.co.uk/image_uploaded/bally_dynamic_40.jpg

Disappointed that there's no towers to say the least! But at least they look to be high-spec, and there's time to change the design yet... ;)

[Biosonic]

Plus, do I see a fancy glass canopy over the back of Snow Hill Stn? Bet Ballymore pay for that...

[woodhousen]

no, this is very old.....infact i believe its post high-places!

[Blunther]

Isn';t that the age old plan?

I hope so.

[Nacho]

Also I can't see any space between the proposal and Snow Hill;I say this because a viaduct is to be built to take the Metro from St Paul/St Chads to street level at Bull Street.

[Biosonic]

That's a relief then! I also found this on the architect's website (I hate flash cos I can't just past the hyperlink!)

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a264/Biosonic/SnowHill.jpg

The key thing here is that Sidell Gibson are MASTERPLANNING so the buildings should change significantly, although height-wise I'm not sure.

Wonder when it'll get moving?

[Blunther]

It's another of those projects that seems to have been in the pipeline for a century without much movement.

Once we get work started on this and AC then we'll know we're getting somewhere. I just hope they're as good as we all dream. Or at least hope they're not crap.

[ghostdog]

yeah, Im really getting excited about birmingham's latest box proposal ;)
Perhaps we should all lower expectactions, perhaps hope for a row of garden allotments or something so that when we get the box proposal brum will actually surprise us for the good for once.

[U475 Foxtrot]

Has anyone noticed the work out the front of the station where the green canopy was is finished now.
Martin G please don't visit it will push you over the edge as saddly it looks like they invested all of 5 seconds designing it. Who ever came up with this would have been hard pressed to to anything more dull.

[Martin G]

Yeah, lighten up a bit Martin! I'm still waiting to read a single positive post from you, and iand i've been posting on here for three years. :(

Saying that though, your heavy sarcasm and over the top cynisism make me laugh, so i'll let you off. :)


Another blatant liar and exaggerator - "a single positive thing".... :nono:

Come now kid, think of something original to say - instead of pilfering the same words from numerous other folks (they know who they are) who insist on coming up with the same cliched phrase again and again every time I say something that goes slightly against the grain of common fawning consensus....

Of course I post positive things - most of them end up on the Liverpool and Manchester forums though - but if you ever bothered looking carefully in the Brum forum, you may see some amazingly positive posts I put up - yes, REALLY!!!! But perhaps you all choose to close your eyes to those and focus on all my "negative" posts instead to add further ammunition to your dubious accusations?

OPEN YOUR EYES TOO, SUNSHINE.

And the same goes to I Love B'Ham.


;)

[brum2003]

Thats Ricardsons for you, if your going to let the private sector invest in public spaces, please dont let them do it......

[pirlo_21]

although iys dull its far better than what was there before, they should add some sort of water feature

[Bachy Soletanche]

although iys dull its far better than what was there before, they should add some sort of water feature

Got a picture?

Is it as nice as
http://www.postcardworld.co.uk/cards/England/Warks/sno.jpg

the old one?

[Nacho]

That's rubbish!Bring back the green canopy now!!

[Bachy Soletanche]

That's rubbish!Bring back the green canopy now!!

Hmm, now you mention it, IT is just a load of Victorian Tat, knock the fussy dump down and lets have some nice tall Reflective Glass building like they have on the Dallas Titles, that's what I call a gateway!

I remember you use to able to buy Post-cards of the new, glass, Snow Hill, so someone was obviously proud of it, wonder if you can get postcards of the new Green Canopy version?

I do also remember buying, and sending a picture of The Rotunda with the big compass point navigation stone mark in the Bull Ring (well, Queensway between NSS and the Bull Ring) below it. Dead tasteful it was.

[morestoreysplease]

The green canopies were dreadful and needed removing years ago. This is an improvement, but it needs a new canopy and provision for coffee stalls.

[Splop]

That's rubbish!Bring back the green canopy now!!

Please tell me you're joking.

[Nacho]

I should have put a smiley or something.

[Elizabeth Kinoke]

Got a picture?

Is it as nice as
http://www.postcardworld.co.uk/cards/England/Warks/sno.jpg

the old one?

makes me reaaaaaaaaaaaally angry that this is gone. :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:

[Biosonic]

And the good news for Snow Hill is....

Glen Howells as been appointed as architect for the apartment block that goes in this scheme AND to further and refine the masterplan for the whole scheme :cheer:

The original scheme architects are Sidell Gibson who did 5, 8 & 10 Brindley Place so they should be good quality :)

721 000 sq ft office space, 200 apartments and retail & leisure plus a new plaza in front of St Chad's Cathedral. At a princely sum of £220 million.

"Detailed planning application for enabling work and the first phase of office development will be submitted within the next 6 months"

Looks like it's all going to go off again in 6-12 months people!

I think Butterfield should insert a wacky fruit/vegetable-based smilie here... :)

[Butterfield]

I think Butterfield should insert a wacky fruit/vegetable-based smilie here... :)
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1249/21302rc.gif (http://imageshack.us)http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1249/21302rc.gif (http://imageshack.us) http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1249/21302rc.gif (http://imageshack.us) http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1249/21302rc.gif (http://imageshack.us) http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1249/21302rc.gif (http://imageshack.us) http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1249/21302rc.gif (http://imageshack.us) http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1249/21302rc.gif (http://imageshack.us) http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1249/21302rc.gif (http://imageshack.us) http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1249/21302rc.gif (http://imageshack.us) http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1249/21302rc.gif (http://imageshack.us) http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1249/21302rc.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[Biosonic]

Class :)

[Blunther]

He;s an inspiration to us all!

:bow:

[pirlo_21]

bloody good news chaps!

[Zenith]

fuck i shouldnt have left brum, its all go ! im in plymouth where theyve been on amber since 1299 B.C and hope to greenlight a shed by the 90th millenium.

bugger. theres not even a starbucks here ! or umm anything !

[woodhousen]

haha

[woodhousen]

...though i cant talk, im in newcastle...possibly the most old fashioned city in this country

[Biosonic]

You can still always pop across the river to Gateshead eh Woody? ;)

Good to see you're back :)

And BC's back :)

[simonw]

well typical of birmingham to let the original be pulled down....if you want to see what the city fathers and BR let be destroyed, follow this link....http://simon71.fotopic.net/c732841.html

[Usherling]

I have to admit my shed looks nicer than those photos. ugh they are ugly. So they are ripping Snow Hill down to build a new station huh sound good enough for me

[simonw]

well there is no accounting for taste but it is in my opinion it was an edwardian gem which, with a little tlc, could have help birmingham try and get within sriking distance onf manchester as britain's second city....as it is the city fathers :bash: as they have so much else.....

[woodhousen]

makes you want to cry

http://simon71.fotopic.net/p21730340.html

[Zenith]

idiots gets me so angry ! that and stephenson place and the library etc etc etc etc etc. can someone pls post a pic of the new entrance !

[Nacho]

Thanks for that link.I hadn't seen those photos before.

[Bachy Soletanche]

BTW 1 Snow Hill Plaza, was that a reclad or something, I saw it on my last trip to Brum, and don't remember it being there before, or may I did or is a new one?

[Zim Flyer]

makes you want to cry

http://simon71.fotopic.net/p21730340.html

I totally agree Woodhousen, how many great stations were demolished. Nottingham Victoria and the Great Central Line is another example of post war railway short termism.

I so wish I had a time machine to tell them to stop.

[Nacho]

BTW 1 Snow Hill Plaza, was that a reclad or something, I saw it on my last trip to Brum, and don't remember it being there before, or may I did or is a new one?

It was reclad a few years ago.A very good job they did too.When we think about the excellent work on the Quayside Tower and this one it suggests that the councill should think twice before demolishing structures in the city.Mind you ,Toysr'us doesn't count. :)

[Bachy Soletanche]

Any pre clad pictures? I've googled but found nowt

[Splop]

I have to admit my shed looks nicer than those photos. ugh they are ugly. So they are ripping Snow Hill down to build a new station huh sound good enough for me


Are you serious?!?

What they did was demolish a beautiful Edwardian station, and in it's place put a cesspit of concrete and filth (which incidentally hasall the carisma and charm of a rabid hippo suffering from diarrhoea) with a bit of blue thrown in as an afterthought. Next they decide not to re-instate the line to Wolverhampton Low Level (which would have been cheaper, as most of the stations were already there) but build a useless tonka toy of a Tram system, which is about as comfortable as piles.

[Usherling]

I don't mean the station I mean what I saw in those pics didn't look very attractive

[Splop]

I don't mean the station I mean what I saw in those pics didn't look very attractive


Oh right. In that case, I'm sorry. :(

[Usherling]

The apology is accepted

[morestoreysplease]

That's because they'd been left to rot and ruin. My dad loved Snow Hill station and I can only imagine what it was like in those heady days of steam.

[Martin G]

I think that it was a travesty that they allowed BR to rebuild/reopen Snow Hill only to make it look like an elevated clone of the godawful New Street. Same thing - ugly gloomy platforms below a frigging car park and concrete raft for fooks sakes. What a fucking wasted opportunity eh? And now look - we're going to be saddled with the hideous pile of soulless crap for years to come....

I mean, look at what they're doing to Moor Street - they've removed the canopies of the 1987 station and replaced them with brand new GWR style awnings and also a footbridge! So why the fuck couldn't they put aside a bit of money to do the same to Snow Hill - the platforms are so long they need canopies at the northern end anyway, so wouldn't that be a nice touch? And then whilst they're at it flatten the car park and rebuild the fucker somewhere to the side of it.....?

:rant:

[Tetsuro]

I couldn't agree more. At least though they did see sense and realised they could actually "reopen" Snow Hill, and not just left it with no trace like other stations in UK (Sheffield Victoria, Nottingham Victoria etc...). i read somewhere incidentally that it was left as derelict open land for quite a few years before they built that car park thingy and the "new" station? Imagine what an eye sore that would have been, I am sooo glad I didn't live in B/ham at the time!

Saying that, I don't actually mind the office block things... yes, they would prob never win a prize for being the best and most inspiring bit of architecture, and are not a patch on the old Snow Hill hotel (as it was in it's heyday), but I think teh removal of that green canopy thing has been an improvement... it is the car park I hate, and the fact they have decided to disguise it's hideousness by planting loads of trees alongside it! Now, I am all for planting trees, but thing is these look shit, as the vegetation is way too dense for an urban environment and seems to have attracted loads of litter in between all the branches. Does anyone know if they will be removed when the new development on the car park finally takes place?

Also, the car park still has a smaller version of that shitty canopy they removed in front of it, before the bridge which leads to the way out!

[Bachy Soletanche]

Last refuse of the bad architect:
Planting trees.

I always thought of that when I went past Pebble Mill (RIP) on the Bus.

[Splop]

Before:

http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/8660/003birminghamsnowhill1op.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

After:
http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/6365/004bsw161005b8fb.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/1895/001bsw161005a1kz.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Nacho]

A definate improvement when seen in the third photo.Looks more spacious but could do with a nice fountain or something.Not bad but could have been better.Thanks for the pics.

[Tetsuro]

Yeah agreed! A fountain or soemthing would be good. I forgot to mention in my earlier post, tehy also need to do something about that boarded up entrance next to teh main enterance, it looks a mess. Does anyone know why it is like that?

[U475 Foxtrot]

very poor effort
http://tinypic.com/fcisg0.jpg

http://tinypic.com/fcity9.jpg

[brum2003]

Yeah agreed! A fountain or soemthing would be good. I forgot to mention in my earlier post, tehy also need to do something about that boarded up entrance next to teh main enterance, it looks a mess. Does anyone know why it is like that?

GRRRR : Richardson Brothers, in two words !!! always cheap and cheerful

[Smileyface]

Hmmmmm! It does seem a bit lackluster.

[woodhousen]

well heres hoping that someone will decide to place something there. i just cant believe that they spent all that money but there is still those f*cking board up at the enterance!

[U475 Foxtrot]

Other soon to happen Snow Hill entrance

http://tinypic.com/fcjxp5.jpg

[Bachy Soletanche]

You woudn't have though that taking out the green stuff (both plants and those cover thingys) would have made such an improvment!

Possibly not when it's parcitpating it down though!

[Biosonic]

The following appears in a press release from BCC yesterday

"Snow Hill – the legal agreement has been signed, giving the green light to this landmark mixed-use development scheme which is set to generate around 2,700 jobs."

Wonder when it'll get moving then...?

[woodhousen]

ooooh sounding good

[Usherling]

Yes.. Sounds Magnificent... Is there renders of the building it plans to move too...?

[pirlo_21]

where these 2,700 jobs gonna come from

[feltip]

The new square reminds me of a much smaller version of the square in front of Euston with towers to side. At least seating would encourage the office workers to eat their lunch and make it more lively space.

As for 2700 jobs, I would imagine, construction and filling offices would generate the figure. Though 2700 jobs alone in new finished offices would be great. We often forget that as much as the built environment shapes the city, so does the ability of people and their visibility make cities feel dense, urban, lived in and loved.

[woodhousen]

have u seen the proposals???

[Paul T]

Hi, i'm new to this thread, but a big fan of old railway stations. Does anyone have any links to the track layout of the original Snow Hill?

[Martin G]

I don't have one immediately to hand - but I do have a couple in the book where all these old vintage pictures were scanned from.....these have been posted on another older thread a few months back, but for your benefit I thought you'd might appreciate these - if only to remind us of what a huge loss to the city the demolition of the old GWR Snow Hill Station was. (However, with regard to track layout, the third picture may be of interest to you if only to see indeed how wide the old station entrance used to be!)

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y89/mckopper/SnowHill1.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y89/mckopper/SnowHill2.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y89/mckopper/SnowHill3.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y89/mckopper/SnowHill4.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y89/mckopper/SnowHill5.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y89/mckopper/SnowHill6.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y89/mckopper/SnowHill7.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y89/mckopper/SnowHill8.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y89/mckopper/SnowHill9.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y89/mckopper/SnowHill10.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y89/mckopper/SnowHill11.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y89/mckopper/SnowHill17.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y89/mckopper/SnowHill18.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y89/mckopper/SnowHill19.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y89/mckopper/SnowHill22.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y89/mckopper/SnowHill23.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y89/mckopper/SnowHill16.jpg

[Paul T]

Stunning pics Martin, thanks.

They also highlight the propensity for sticking bloody car parks on top of railway stations. What is with that way of thinking? Is a car park better looking than a fine station? Dig deep underground and stick your car park there, under the offices & shops.

Snow Hill - an absolute case of shocking short-sighted thinking.

[Spread]

I actually attended the opening of the New Snow Hill and at the time there were plans to re-instate the famous clock but I assume these were quickly forgotten. Whilst the new station is a disgrace I supose we should be grateful they didn't build something right across the tracks in the 1970s to prevent the line ever reopening.

[Paul T]

Sorry for venturing OT, but I can't help make comparisons with a station further north on the same old GWR line - Wolverhampton Low Level. Another grand (though not on the same scale as Snow Hill) Victorian station, which has, unbelievably, been abandoned in a time-warp since it closed to passengers 33 years ago (complete with rusting coach).

Plans are afoot for development of the area, and as the station is listed, hopefully it will retain some dignity amongst the cafe's, shops, apartments etc. The one sad aspect of the development, to my mind, is that it will scupper any chance of the station being brought back into use sometime in the future. Wouldn't a preserved Victorian station, in the style of the rejuvenated Moor Street, be a reason to travel to Wolves?

[morestoreysplease]

The problem being that the old low level line is now the Metro line, so there's no reason for them to use the station as a station anymore. Tis a shame. Hi Paul BTW!

[Paul T]

Thanks for the welcome. It's more short-sighted thinking. The Snow Hill - Wolverhampton line was a ready-made through-route. A relief line to the conjested LNWR route through Dudley Port & Tipton. So now New St is conjested and hundreds of millions need to be spent to sort it out.

[Dee]

Right,then people here you go, the NEW and all dancing renderings for the Snowhill development from Sidell Gibson Architect's new website:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/Derekksharmen/snow4.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/Derekksharmen/snow3.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/Derekksharmen/snow1.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/Derekksharmen/snow2.jpg



These renderings look very promising when you compare them to Sidell Gibson's previous effort, nice to see the development improve in quality for once!

[U475 Foxtrot]

oh my god

[Nacho]

Great find Dee.That looks a lot better.

[Steldemetriou]

WOW WOW proper funky office blocks i was fearing more brick can't wait

[woodhousen]

very impressive...though the canterlever is over the tram tracks towards snot hill...wonder what the view will be like from the road...



very nice though...the quality of stuff a city of ours should be getting!

[woodhousen]

Dee isnt the most regular poster but when dee does post, they are worth it lol

[bileduct]

Wow, that's much better isn't it. Looks like it belongs on the waterfront in Rotterdam or something.

The way it operates successfully at two different scales is particularly impressive IMO - big roads like Snow Hill need big bold buildings so that they aren't just dominated by the expanse of tarmac, but those buildings also need to relate to the pavement in a way that doesn't alienate pedestrians and make it all feel bleak and inhuman in scale. This particular pair of tricks hasn't been something that Birmingham has historically been very good at, but this looks like it does both quite triumphantly.

And isn't the residential element going to be done by Glenn Howells?

All in all very promising - three cheers for Dee! (oh, and Sidell Gibson and Ballymore too)

[Martin G]

Looks pretty damned cool those - even if they aren't as tall as we would dearly like (naturally) - the profile certainly makes for an interesting addition to the skyline.

[Richoftheb]

Like it ! Good find!

[bileduct]

very impressive...though the canterlever is over the tram tracks towards snot hill...wonder what the view will be like from the road...I've just realised what you're saying here - I'd assumed the top picture was the view up Snow Hill from St Chads, but it's not, it's the view down from Colmore Row isn't it? (that must be Lloyd House on the right?)

So those raking walls are't going to be a grand frontage to Snow Hill itself, but are facing the car park over the station across a fairly narrow passageway.

Looks almost like they're building it the wrong way round (except that the rake and the sun shades only make functional sense pointing South, I suppose)

Mmmm...

[woodhousen]

welll do we think that this was the developers trying to get the most of the land....... but hey, would still be interesting to see it from the road

[Bachy Soletanche]

I'm a bit confused (cough-cough) where are these going to be going? Where the 'car park', is now?

[woodhousen]

yes this is where the car park is now...these views are looking down from colemore gate (the blue glass tower) towards st chads

[Dee]

The Sidell Gibson website states that detailed planning is to go in this month for the first office block, hopefully we will see some swift action like Colmore Plaza and the Cube recently. One stumbling block maybe the developers reluctance to start speculatively. Post and Mail is on its way up and the people behind Masshouse have stated they will start the office towers speculatively aswell.

Would really like to see some building work on this after so many years of waiting

[bileduct]

welll do we think that this was the developers trying to get the most of the land....... but hey, would still be interesting to see it from the road
It's not so much that it's being over-developed - if ever there was a site that could take very large scale buildings it is this one.

It's just that, to me at least, this side says "front" (the sort of eyecatching, charismatic facade you need to build along a grand boulevard like Snow Hill)...

http://i2.tinypic.com/qoy9go.jpg

.. while this says "back" (the sort of pleasantly detailed but essentially dull facade you'd build along a narrow alleyway facing a tram line and a multistorey car park, where nobody will see it without craning their necks up)

http://i2.tinypic.com/qoya1x.jpg

But it looks like they're building them the other way round :?

[Dee]

Bileduct, i think they are planning to narrow the proposed boulavard for whatever reason, hence the overhang element will make the boulvard even more enclosed, its the only reason i can think of for them having the buildings this way.

[bileduct]

Cheers Dee - maybe it'll all make sense when the planning app is submitted and we can see the ground plans on the council's sparkly new "See Related Documents" thingy. It would be a shame to design such an eyecatching building and stick the good bit where nobody can see it though.

[Biosonic]

Dee - you are amazing - thanks so much :)

Now, I am not wanting to get too excited, but are the people in the images to scale? If so, these buildings are HUGE!! And they look mighty fine - something that belongs to London :)

[Bachy Soletanche]

If they are to scale those floors will be 20 odd foot!

edited to add: either that, or the people are muchkins.

[woodhousen]

well, please remember, a 12-14 storey office block will be between 50-70m....... this is taller than 1 colmore sq and about the same height as post and mail

[Sonny97]

just bring it on !!!!!

[Biosonic]

Bileduct, i think they are planning to narrow the proposed boulavard for whatever reason, hence the overhang element will make the boulvard even more enclosed, its the only reason i can think of for them having the buildings this way.

Looking at this pic:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/Derekksharmen/snow4.jpg

Is it possible that the building in the very top left is Lloyd House? And the one on the right is at the back of Snow Hill?

It makes more sense to have the 'nice' side facing the street...

[Bachy Soletanche]

Well it passed the first test, it's an Improvement on what was there before:

cut and paste from page 8,
http://tinypic.com/fcjxp5.jpg

[woodhousen]

how far along is this new enterence?

[Biosonic]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/Derekksharmen/snow4.jpg

Nope, I retract my original hope - this is from Colmore Row end looking down toward St Chads. You can see the reflection of the Wesleyan in the window!

This means the cantilever overlooks the tramline extension!

At least the colourful side faces the main road.

[pirlo_21]

looks wonderfull that areas gonna look right fab

[Rigadon]

Can someone attempt putting this on a map for me?

[CargoHold]

how far along is this new enterence?

Woody, it's between Queensway and Lionel St.

CH

[Zim Flyer]

It looks alot nicer than the present station.

Will they doing anything to brighten up the interior part of the station as well?

[CargoHold]

It looks alot nicer than the present station.

Will they doing anything to brighten up the interior part of the station as well?

I doubt it, i just wish they would do something about the blocked up "second" entrance on Colmore Row.

CH

[jolon]

It looks alot nicer than the present station.

Will they doing anything to brighten up the interior part of the station as well?

Unfortunately this has nothing to do with snow hill station, it just happens to be next door. I suppose all this has been posted in the wrong thread really.

[pauliewalnuts]

Woody, it's between Queensway and Lionel St.

CH

Don't you mean Livery Street? Lionel St is the other side of Gt Charles Street, over Ludgate Hill way.

Am i right in thinking that the car park it replaces is the multi storey which you enter on Livery Street, and which connects directly to Snow Hill?

And which road do the sloped sides face on to? I'm having some geographical trouble here ;-)

Incidentally, I work in a Sidell Gibson development (Paddington Central) and it is grey, brutal and soulless. This looks MUCH better.

[Steve-e-b]

Now, I am not wanting to get too excited, but are the people in the images to scale? If so, these buildings are HUGE!!
I'd say they are in scale.
From this picture you can see there are two storeys under the overhang, which does trick the eye a little, making the building look smaller and the people appear tiny against the backdrop of the building.
http://i2.tinypic.com/qoy9go.jpg

[woodhousen]

no no i know where the 2nd enterence is but i mean how far along the development is....? when will it be open/finished?

[Sonny97]

I hope the lucky window cleaner gets a good tip!

[Biosonic]

Can someone attempt putting this on a map for me?

Here we are Rigadon.

The images seem to be taken in the direction of the red arrow. The development is where the blue block is.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a264/Biosonic/SnowHillMap.jpg

The project will include the reconfiguring of St Chads Circus and the creation of a new public square in front of the Cathedral. And I have bagsied the swing in the middle of the circus! The Irish Quarter will be getting the Kennedy Memorial.

It would make sense to move St Chads Cathedral to Digbeth :eek:

[bileduct]

You can see roughly what they're planning to do from the Reserved Matters Planning Application on the city council website, including an outline of what is presumably the revised road and tramline layout.

http://i2.tinypic.com/r0s84l.jpg

Comparing the renderings to the map, I'm guessing this block is going here...

http://i2.tinypic.com/r0s85x.jpg

... with the raking glass frontage facing south next to the multistorey car park over the station, and the Glenn Howells residential building to the east on between this block and the revised, shrunk St Chads Circus.

Does that seem right?

[Bachy Soletanche]

If they reduce the use of the road, but have the Trams in, dosn't that mean that the front, most seen side of the Building will be the Tram side? And it's correct that the Slopping side is on that one?

Maybe?

I just hope they bring St. Chads into the City Centre, and not the otherside of a horrible underpass/ring road.

[Biosonic]

Yup - the it looks as though the cantilever/sloped side overhangs the tram lines.

The remodelling of St Chads Circus includes the filling in of the underpasses Stephen, so we should be looking at a much better public realm and a better setting for the Cathedral. I guess it will still have the ring road in front of it, but I wonder how long before the pressure to develop the area between St Chads and Aston Uni makes the remodelling of that section of the inner ring road happen?

And does anyone recall the plans for an office block to replace that crabby bit between Lloyd House and Kennedy Tower?

Btw the steelwork to the Children's Hospital extension looks to be nearly complete - they are fire-proofing it now :)

[woodhousen]

yes, that office block has been proposed there for ages....a curved fronted 12 storey office block if memory serves correct......still that part of the site is still imcluded in the snowhill masterplan so shall be interesting to see what is proposed in the snow hill scheme

[Rigadon]

thanks people

[CargoHold]

To try and help you folks "place" the renders i went down there today and grabbed a few photos.

This is a view of the entire site taken from the West Midland Police's car park.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c258/cargohold/Snow-Hill-Site.jpg

The entire site looking up from Queensway.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c258/cargohold/Snow-Hill-Site-2.jpg

Snow Hill Metro Station and car park/access area for Snow Hill offices. Presumably this will have to remain.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c258/cargohold/Snow-Hill-from-Colmore-Row-.jpg

Shot from the same position as the above pic this shot shows the site down to Queensway.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c258/cargohold/SnowHillfromColmoreRow-2.jpg

The lower 2 thirds of the site looking down from Snow Hill Station car park.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c258/cargohold/SnowHillfromColmoreRow-Ariel.jpg

This shot shows the site where the second entrance to the station is being built between Queensway and Lionel St.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c258/cargohold/Snow-Hill-Second-Entrance.jpg

[Engels]

Are you allowed to just walk in the West Mids Police Headquarters carpark....

didn't let down their tires while u were in there did u Cargohold??

Seems we can afford pay for Identity cards nobody wants but not to protect strangers from walking into what should be the most heavily protecetd building in the city

[CargoHold]

Are you allowed to just walk in the West Mids Police Headquarters carpark....

didn't let down their tires while u were in there did u Cargohold??

Seems we can afford pay for Identity cards nobody wants but not to protect strangers from walking into what should be the most heavily protecetd building in the city

I got a couple of tax discs if anyone is interested ... :)


Nah, it's a big up to West Midlands Police, i had to get permission and was escorted by an officer from the " Corporate Services Department ". Nice bloke he was, said he would see if he could arrange for a trip up to the roof sometime .... i think i will save that until construction is well underway [and the wraps are off Orion] :)

CH

[Steve-e-b]

Thanks for those pictures CH, I think you covered the site from just about every angle.
The site looks smaller than I thought - quite a bit narrower - but that's good news because it forces the developer to build up.

[Steve-e-b]

The project will include the reconfiguring of St Chads Circus and the creation of a new public square in front of the Cathedral. And I have bagsied the swing in the middle of the circus!
I was playing on that swing first, Bio.
I'm gonna tell my Mom of you.

[bileduct]

Cheers for them, CH :)

[bikmax]

I,m surprised that no one has seen the current edition of EG
. Quite an extensive article concerning Snow Hill and much to encourage fellow Brummie forumers. Apparently the developers are to build a viaduct cum podium from Colmore circus to St.Chads. This is probably the only way that they can get the floorplates that they want, but the worry must be that St. Chads Queensway will remain an unfriendly route for pedestrians to navigate

[woodhousen]

it possible u could scan that in bikmax???

[Biosonic]

I was playing on that swing first, Bio.
I'm gonna tell my Mom of you.

Tell her!!

My mom's bigger than your mom.

Ah... er, well, I won't let her hear me say that ;)

Go back up your own end!

[woodhousen]

btw, the reserved matter application for snowhill has been approved today!

[stourbridgebaggie]

whats the reserved matter application? sorry if its already been covered

[woodhousen]

u have not been listening in ur legal framework module

it states that any development on this site has to allow for the new tram line and road re-workings to work with the councils current framework for the area..... it has been submitted by the developer and the council are happy the proposal conforms

[stourbridgebaggie]

thats what i meant whats the reserved matter application for snow hill! the bloke who teaches legal framework just reads it all straight out a book anyway

[Bachy Soletanche]

So tram lines extention is ok?

I'm getting confused..

[woodhousen]

no tramline extension is not ok......... but still regardless to whether the tram gets th go ahead, while it is still in doubt, applications still have to fact in any allowances needed if it does get the go ahead...quite simple really

[CargoHold]

I guess what it means is that it must be presumed that the Metro extension will go ahead so provision for it must be made in any future planning applications on and adjacent to proposed route.

Is that right Woody ?

CH

[woodhousen]

that is right

[Biosonic]

www.birminghammipim.co.uk reports that Snow Hill is due to start on site spring 2006 :eek:

[woodhousen]

well revisedplanning has been approved...just waiting for the final design to be approved

[hammerb24]

I know we all want buildings tall but I do love this design. Does anyone have any renders of the new entrance ? On a slightly different track the shops under the arches facing Ludgate Hill, heard a rumour these are facing huge rent increases as the landlord is looking for bars/resteraunts and boutiques in.

[CargoHold]

Tell her!!

My mom's bigger than your mom.

Ah... er, well, I won't let her hear me say that ;)

Go back up your own end!

For anyone who is wondering just what these 2 are going on about ...

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c258/cargohold/Swing.jpg

[Bachy Soletanche]

For anyone who is wondering just what these 2 are going on about ...

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c258/cargohold/Swing.jpg

That's some weird exposure you've got on that camera!

(joke, a feeble one)

But that's one piece of art that I suppect dosn't get people going out of the way to stand in a wee-wee soaked, tagged hole in the ground that is St. Chad's Circus...

[Biosonic]

You are a star CH. This is one of my fave pieces of public art :)

[U475 Foxtrot]

I thought the plan is to build a second entrance under the arches and looking at this come up through the platforms. I don't know much about what's going on here. Are they building new canopies and waiting rooms too? Anyone got any idea of what's going on here and how long it'll take?

Things are going to happen very slowly here if there are only 2 men on site.

http://i2.tinypic.com/syxnwx.jpg

[CargoHold]

I thought the plan is to build a second entrance under the arches and looking at this come up through the platforms. I don't know much about what's going on here. Are they building new canopies and waiting rooms too? Anyone got any idea of what's going on here and how long it'll take?

Things are going to happen very slowly here if there are only 2 men on site.

http://i2.tinypic.com/syxnwx.jpg

Foxtrot

I cannot see the image that you have posted so here's one i took a while ago. From ground level you can see sod all behind the hoardings other than loads of shuttering so i guess that they are building the entrance before they move up onto the platform. If they are to run canopies down to the main building then this could look awesome.

CH

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c258/cargohold/Snowhill-platforms.jpg

Edit: Well frell me !, now i have quoted it i can see your pic Foxy ?????

[Bachy Soletanche]

I was wondering what those weird white balls/UFO things were in that storage thing on the right, till I worked out they were the lamps!

[Martin G]

^^

Snow Hill - what a fucking soulless shambles and a classic example of a pissed-on opportunity from start to finish.

Looking at those two pictures I can see my hackles rising yet again.....I mean....whose clever idea was it when routeing the Midland Metro tracks to run the line right along the fourth heavy rail line thus taking up one valuable platform space - only for the metroline to then terminate in its own purpose built platform a little further back from the main station complex? Whose fucking stupid idea was that? What a fucking WASTE of one platform face, I ask you. How fucking pathetically short sighted could Centro/Midland Metro get?? I ask this because if you look to the right of the Metro tracks there is all that extra space before the viaduct wall where the line could have been routed further eastwards (as TWO TRACKS EVEN!!!), thus eliminating the need for the single track to run along the platform face, and thus retaining this valuable line for the use of heavy rail. For fucking fuck's sakes, do they NEVER know how to do anything properly?

We all know the consequences of this tit-brained bit of thinking don't we? Snow Hill then only had THREE through platform faces and was then experiencing capacity problems - and you know the reason why don't you? Fucking hell - this just proves what I long suspected for years now - most people in charge of planning for rail and public transport don't have one fucking iota of a clue how to do things properly. And as if any further proof was ever needed of the same thing happening over and over again (the way they always overlook capacity issues) - just look at the current shitty half arsed redevelopment proposal for fucking New Street station to see my point - as if it needed making again. :evil:

[Biosonic]

^^:lol: - you certainly liven things up Martin!

I thought the entrance was going to be made on Gt Charles St Queensway?

[CargoHold]

Bio

It's in the archway between Queensway and Lionel ST

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c258/cargohold/Snow-Hill-Second-Entrance.jpg

[woodhousen]

there are renders of the new entrance all over snowhill station...but cant find it anywhere on the net

[Biosonic]

Thanks CH - I thought it was further up Gt Charles St... thanks for clarifying :)

[SimonTheSoundMan]

^^

Snow Hill - what a fucking soulless shambles and a classic example of a pissed-on opportunity from start to finish.

Looking at those two pictures I can see my hackles rising yet again.....I mean....whose clever idea was it when routeing the Midland Metro tracks to run the line right along the fourth heavy rail line thus taking up one valuable platform space - only for the metroline to then terminate in its own purpose built platform a little further back from the main station complex? Whose fucking stupid idea was that? What a fucking WASTE of one platform face, I ask you. How fucking pathetically short sighted could Centro/Midland Metro get?? I ask this because if you look to the right of the Metro tracks there is all that extra space before the viaduct wall where the line could have been routed further eastwards (as TWO TRACKS EVEN!!!), thus eliminating the need for the single track to run along the platform face, and thus retaining this valuable line for the use of heavy rail. For fucking fuck's sakes, do they NEVER know how to do anything properly?

We all know the consequences of this tit-brained bit of thinking don't we? Snow Hill then only had THREE through platform faces and was then experiencing capacity problems - and you know the reason why don't you? Fucking hell - this just proves what I long suspected for years now - most people in charge of planning for rail and public transport don't have one fucking iota of a clue how to do things properly. And as if any further proof was ever needed of the same thing happening over and over again (the way they always overlook capacity issues) - just look at the current shitty half arsed redevelopment proposal for fucking New Street station to see my point - as if it needed making again. :evil:
4 platforms at New Street will be used for the tram line as the council feared a few trams every hour going down Broad Street would ground the city centre to a stand still. LOL. I think that sounds reasonable following how things work. :D


We cannot get our tram system right. I hadn't been to Nottingham for years, but bloody hell, the trams are everywhere now. BCC is thinking about a new line to make the current tram system have a purpose, but we wont see that till 2014+. I cannot see any advantages over trains and buses the current line has.

[SimonTheSoundMan]

Things are going to happen very slowly here if there are only 2 men on site.

That's pretty good in comparison to New Street development. They have budgeted for one man and his dog Skipp.

The dog will be employed to wee on every new wall to give it that "New Street smell" which makes it so famous.

[bileduct]

The planning application for Snow Hill Building 1 doesn't really add anymore detail than the renders we've already got for it, but there does seem to have been an interesting change in the overall masterplan. Building 3, the residential one that's planed to be the next phase built after Building 1 and is supposed to be being designed by Glenn Howells, seems to have turned into two buildings.

Although clearly marked "indicative outline only", their suggested shape is interesting too. Could be quite dramatic?

http://i4.tinypic.com/10safid.jpg

And does anyone know what the unexplained extra rectangular thing in the middle of the traffic junction outside St Chad's is?

[bileduct]

Snow Hill itself is going to be seriously canyon-like, mind.

http://i4.tinypic.com/10sak42.jpg

[SimLim]

Thanks for those. How tall are the Glen Howells's resi's. gonna be? Was the building height moving up to st.chads limited to 10 stories?

[U475 Foxtrot]

Don't know if someone posted this article about the snow hill entrance. http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/mail/news/tm_objectid=17135947%26method=full%26siteid=50002-name_page.html

Shockingly it's 30 weeks behind shedule

[woodhousen]

Thanks for those. How tall are the Glen Howells's resi's. gonna be? Was the building height moving up to st.chads limited to 10 stories?

no at all....


infact both ends of the plot fr snow hill are assigned areas suitable for high rise buildings in high places.....


glan howels section looks promising.... again, two buildings relitivly tall at varying heights would be very nice

[Bachy Soletanche]

Maybe there should be some height restrictions on buildings around the Cathedrial?

[Biosonic]

Thanks for the info Biley.

Stephen - personally I like tall buildings next to cathedrals, just as long as they are not behind it (ruins the photo) and provided there are not too many overshadowing it.

Those apartments block footprints lend themselves to being tall buildigns don't they?

[Splop]

*Instant idea*

Re-skin the car park the match the building.....

Or even better, remove the car park.

Either of those would make me happy.

[mahill]

... personally I like tall buildings next to cathedrals, just as long as they are not behind it (ruins the photo) and provided there are not too many overshadowing it...

Well cathedrals, like many buildings, can be photographed from any direction, so any tall building next to a cathedral will be behind it if the photograph is taken from certain directions. We'll have to await the redevelopment of St Chads, as a gateway to the Gun Quarter, but perhaps a limit on the height/mass of buildings on the cathedral side of Great Charles Street, while allowing Snow Hill to reach it's full potential.

[woodhousen]

so are you supporting a tower at the st chad end and lower at the colmore row end?

[anishkpatel]

apparantly kpmg are taking the offices at new snow hill

[brum2003]

great, this should be a good one x

[woodhousen]

great news here

KPMG to have new HQ at Snow Hill
Jun 16 2006


A £400 million development next to Snow Hill Station is to become the new Birmingham headquarters of global accountancy giant KPMG.

The firm yesterday named Ballymore Properties' £400 million Snow Hill site as the preferred location for its new base.

KPMG plans to relocate its operations from 2 Cornwall Street - where it has been located for around 18 years - to Building One at Snow Hill, which will front on to Col-more Circus.

The move will involve the transfer of around 1,000 staff in three years' time, following completion of the building late in 2008.

KPMG is taking five floors of the proposed new office block, giving it some 120,000 sq ft of space.

The pre-let agreement, which has yet to be finalised, will be the biggest deal of its kind since 2002, when The Royal Bank of Scotland decided to take space at Brindleyplace.


When complete, the redevelopment of Snow Hill Queensway will feature more than 500,000 sq ft of high quality office space in two buildings.


Some 200 residential apartments are also to be built, along with retail and leisure space overlooking a new public plaza in front of St Chad's Cathedral.

[woodhousen]

i didnt realise this was so close to being started!!!!!

KPMG Snow Hill site leads regeneration
Jun 16 2006

By Steve Pain, Deputy Business Editor


Accountancy giant KPMG is planning to move its Birmingham operation to a striking new city centre headquarters build-ing in a deal with developers Ballymore Properties which is the biggest of its kind for four years.

KPMG has named Ballymore's 3.65-acre £400 million Snow Hill site as the preferred location for its new base.

Both companies are now working to finalise the details of the agreement, which will be Birmingham city centre's largest pre-let since 2002.

The landmark agreement will see the UK's leading provider of professional financial services KPMG relocate its Birmingham operations from 2 Cornwall Street - where it has been for around 18 years - to Building One at Snow Hill, which will front Colmore Circus.

The firm will take occupation of the seventh to 11th floors of the multi-million pound mixed use scheme, giving it around 120,000 sq ft of Grade A office space.

The phased move of approximately 1,000 KPMG Birmingham-based employees is expected to take place in 2009 following completion of the building in late 2008.


It is not yet known what will happen to KPMG's existing building, which is also owned by Ballymore.


Mark Hopton, KPMG's regional chairman for the Midlands, said yesterday: "Follow-ing the decision to relocate to new premises, KPMG is now working with Ballymore Properties to tie-up this hugely significant pre-let deal."


He added: "Providing a safe, secure and first class workplace for KPMG employees is critical to outstanding teamwork and our ability to best serve our clients. We are delighted that Ballymore has been able to meet our very specific requirements at Building One.


"Birmingham and the surrounding region remains crucial to, KPMG's long term business aspirations and our confidence in Ballymore's ambitious vision for the regeneration of Snow Hill is compatible in our selection of this particular site."


Richard Probert, Ballymore's development manager for Snow Hill, said: "Birmingham city centre's last major pre-let agreement was at Brindleyplace with the Royal Bank of Scotland, which took place in 2002.


"Four years on, this imminent agreement with KPMG would not only represent a massive vote of confidence for the Snow Hill redevelopment scheme, but is also a huge boost in terms of the ongoing regeneration of the city.


"KPMG is a corporate heavyweight both regionally, nationally and on the international stage and that a company of this calibre has selected Snow Hill to house its largest office outside London is a great testament to our approach to this project.


"With virtually half of the building now set to be pre-let, we are entering into the initial stages of the build programme with a strong sense of purpose and excitement."


Since the redevelopment of Snow Hill Station in the 1980s, the land next to the station has been used as a car park.


However, when complete, the ambitious redevelopment of Snow Hill Queensway will feature more than half a million sq ft of high quality office accommodation in two distinctive buildings, which will each have floor plates of up to 25,000 sq ft. Some 200 residential apartments are also planned, along with retail and leisure space overlooking a new public plaza in front of St Chad's Cathedral.


A 'reserved matters' application has recently been submitted for Building One in accordance with the existing Outline Planning Consent and this is due to be considered by Birmingham City Council later this month. Major off-site infrastructure and road works are due to commence next month - with a start on the main site later in the year.


A new pedestrian 'Metro Boulevard' to the west of the scheme is proposed, which will act as a link to new public open space planned both within the scheme and in front of St Chad's Cathedral.


Ballymore says the overall redevelopment of the Snow Hill site will lead the next phase of city centre regeneration.

[Biosonic]

Great news :)

[Splop]

Awesome news, but what about the Station itself? It's alright having a stunning glass office building, but it's going to be spoilt by that pathetic excuse of a station, which has all the grace and charm of a psychotic tapeworm.

Why don't they re-skin the car park to match the building? It'd be a massive improvement.