Nice one Mr Manchester!

It's illegal copying ANY passport, whether expired or not.

In mother England perhaps, but not in Canada. Anyway, if you feel you're correct then why not report me to 'External Affairs' in Ottawa?

502 posts.. :sleepy:

Somebody is/was in the Trav Biz.....ooooohhhhh......impressive :)

It's illegal copying ANY passport, whether expired or not.

One day you might join a cruise to some exotic climes. If you do, you will find that you have to surrender your passport to the ships purser. The pursers office will issue you a receipt number and, usually, on the first sea day you will receive a photocopy of the information and photo page of your passport. This is to enable you to reboard the ship after shore trips. You will have a "Key-Card" that doubles as your cabin key and onboard credit card. When re-boarding the ship, after shore excursions, you will be required to "swipe" your onboard key-card and show some other "photo I.D.".This will be when your photocopied 'info-photo page' of your valid passport/travel document comes in handy.

Your passport is usually returned to you on the night before debarking the vessel or, if debarking in a US port, on the day of debarkation and is usually returned to you in the lounge that the USINS is using for processing. Take my word for it DickyBird, I am a veteran of 56 cruises.

Somebody is/was in the Trav Biz.....ooooohhhhh......impressive :)
He was in the travel business, but he thought there were only two 5* hotels outside London! :laugh:

One day you might join a cruise to some exotic climes. If you do, you will find that you have to surrender your passport to the ships purser. The pursers office will issue you a receipt number and, usually, on the first sea day you will receive a photocopy of the information and photo page of your passport. This is to enable you to reboard the ship after shore trips. You will have a "Key-Card" that doubles as your cabin key and onboard credit card. When re-boarding the ship, after shore excursions, you will be required to "swipe" your onboard key-card and show some other "photo I.D.".This will be when your photocopied 'info-photo page' of your valid passport/travel document comes in handy.

Your passport is usually returned to you on the night before debarking the vessel or, if debarking in a US port, on the day of debarkation and is usually returned to you in the lounge that the USINS is using for processing. Take my word for it DickyBird, I am a veteran of 56 cruises.
Firstly, I've been on a cruise (though admittedly only a Mediterranean one). I didn't have to surrender my passport. Secondly, it's not illegal to copy a passport (or bank note) if it's A) scaled up or down by 50% or more, B) in black and white and/or C) got a "SPECIMEN" or similar watermark.

What was the point of your post again? :)

Somebody is/was in the Trav Biz.....ooooohhhhh......impressive :)

You aint seen nothing yet. It is easier for me to name the countries I haven't visited than to name those I have. I guess, as the saying goes, "I was in baghdad before DickyBird was in his dads bag".. :tongue3:

Mancs on the Liverpool forum?.......NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! I'm having a fucking nightmare.

Mancs on the Liverpool forum?.......NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! I'm having a fucking nightmare.
Why, what's so bad about it? You're nothing but a Manc suburb anyway! ;)

Why, what's so bad about it? You're nothing but a Manc suburb anyway! ;)
http://img170.echo.cx/img170/9481/wanker9kr.gif

Go home.

http://img170.echo.cx/img170/9481/wanker9kr.gif
Yeah, we know you do that over our city every night, but we'd rather not see you do it in public... :)

LOL

Firstly, I've been on a cruise (though admittedly only a Mediterranean one).[

But you lie so much DickyBird, it is hard to for you to distinguish the truth and fantasy.

I didn't have to surrender my passport.

This would happen if you boarded a cruise that was not leaving the political jusrisdiction of the departure and debarkation port and visiting no 'Foreign' ports between those two ports, i.e. between EU ports only.

Secondly, it's not illegal to copy a passport (or bank note) if it's A) scaled up or down by 50% or more, B) in black and white and/or C) got a "SPECIMEN" or similar watermark.

This can't be so; DickyBird admitting he was wrong? Nah, never. :omg:

Oh no! Here we go again!

This can't be so; DickyBird admitting he was wrong? Nah, never. :omg:
Not admitting I'm wrong, just qualifying my previous statement. :)

Not admitting I'm wrong, just qualifying my previous statement. :)

Are you ever (in your opinion) wrong Earlybird?

Are you ever (in your opinion) wrong Earlybird?
I usually only open my mouth when a. I know I'm right or b. I'm pissed. I cocked up with the passport thing somewhat and corrected myself, though I don't think it makes much difference.

I usually only open my mouth when a. I know I'm right or b. I'm pissed. I cocked up with the passport thing somewhat and corrected myself, though I don't think it makes much difference.

Good for you. :)

I take it you are pissed tonight?

Hey DickBird, no comment on Roy Thomson Hall? Come on, there must be something disparraging you can say. Don't let me down boy. :yes:

I take it you are pissed tonight?
Just about three bottles of wine down the hatch so far...

Hey DickBird, no comment on Roy Thomson Hall? Come on, there must be something disparraging you can say. Don't let me down boy. :yes:
Architecturally I prefer the Bridgewater Hall and seeing as they're around the same capacity that won't become a factor. What do you want me to say? I think Toronto's is nice but I'm happy enough with what we've got. :)

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/t.woof/gen/BridgewaterHall-imgp6462-t-txt.jpg

Just about three bottles of wine down the hatch so far...

Good for you my manc friend. I'm not that far behind you, just comr in from night out - quite merry.

Architecturally I prefer the Bridgewater Hall and seeing as they're around the same capacity that won't become a factor. What do you want me to say? I think Toronto's is nice but I'm happy enough with what we've got. :)

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/t.woof/gen/BridgewaterHall-imgp6462-t-txt.jpg

Yeah right. beggars cant be choosers and all that like ;)

Architecturally I prefer the Bridgewater Hall

It looks like a high school building to me. Probably cost about the same as the RTH though. One question; Why would they name it after a canal builder? I think the John Barbarolli Hall sounds better. No romance I guess, but then their Mancs, right? :)

It looks like a high school building to me. Probably cost about the same as the RTH though. One question; Why would they name it after a canal builder? I think the John Barbarolli Hall sounds better. No romance I guess, but then their Mancs, right? :)
I'll give you ONE guess why it was called Bridgewater Hall. ;)

http://www.bridgewater-hall.co.uk/about/images/accessgraphic.gif

guess why it was called Bridgewater Hall.

Well wasn't it named for the Earl of Bridgewater, the man who commissioned the Bridgewater Canal, rather than the buildings location?

Well wasn't it named for the Earl of Bridgewater, the man who commissioned the Bridgewater Canal, rather than the buildings location?
It was named after him, but it wouldn't have been if it hadn't been built right on the canal basin.

Don't think i'm ignoring you, my laptop battery is running down and i'm outside in the backyard. I'll log back on later when I come back in the house.

Yeah right. beggars cant be choosers and all that like :lol:

It looks like a high school building to me. Probably cost about the same as the RTH though. One question; Why would they name it after a canal builder? I think the John Barbarolli Hall sounds better. No romance I guess, but then their Mancs, right? :weird:

http://www.hallerock.co.uk/images/dayjobphotos/bwaterhall.jpg

http://www.brentwoodmagazine.com/media-3/globe/BridgewaterHall.jpg

You must have gone to some posh school Sloyne?

I'm a little confused here?

You slate one of Manchesters many new developments!(Urbis, CJC, Beetham, etc,etc) This time the Bridgewater Hall, yet you have had no new buildings for years or that compare to ours!

You can't even get the fourth Grace right! Look what you've ended up with!
Salford University have a similar building planned for their media and arts course!! What does that say about Liverpool?

Spot the difference!(apart from the water!) :lol:

http://www.arup.com/IMAGEBANK/image5958.jpg
http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/online/events/mol/graphics/molfromph.jpg

By all means try and slate our new builds! But before you do, A, make sure you have some of your own and B, make sure there comparable to ours!

One more thing!

Whilst your top two Councillors threaten each other with legal action, our council is doing what it does best! :)

Your years behind Manchester and you always will be!

Somthings never change in Liverpool do they! :laugh:

There is a difference JRB, that building in Salford is a typical university building, and, after god knows how much modification as a result of Uni powers that be cutting corners, it will be built looking cheap and nasty and will inevitably become part of a clearance and regeneration initiative in 25 years time!

This whole debate about Liverpool being behind the times and not producing anything substantial in architecture???? Lets get once thing straight, as a Scousers living in Manchester and having done for the last 3 years and love the bones of both cities, both have there good and bad points, but without doubt, Manchester has got an attitude about itself at times that completely disrespects its closest neighbour. Liverpool is a city of similar size, so all those who think Manchester has millions living in it, RUBBISH, the population of the CITY OF MANCHESTER and THE CITY OF LIVERPOOL are both around the half a million mark.

And yes Manchester is ahead and everyday I walk to work and marvel at the fantastic skyline and examples of great architecture in Manchester, yet there is still that symbolic building, that landmark or symbol that is synonymously MANCHESTER! Liverpool has several of these so in that respect for all the glass and steel, Manchester still as some catching up to do!

On the other hand, Liverpool is lacking still the modern icon, sort of a reverse of Manchester if you like. For all Liverpool's great building and majestic iconic bulk, ie the Anglican cathedral there is still that need for a modern day landmark, not just some little museum plonked on the waterfront (liverpool museum proposal) just so that everyone wont miss it in 2008, but true tall, noticable changes to the Skyline! at what point, what year, month, week, did someone suddenly decide "right lads, thats it, we've had a bit of a lull, no more buildings in Liverpool over X height in case they are taller than the Liver birds, we've had our day now, we are officially a museum!" Leave that to cities like Rome.

Personally, i think cities look great with contrast. Im sure if Manchester had some huge building such as the Liver building, St georges hall or Anglican Cathedral there would have been some more point of reference, some influence as to how the city scape would be shaped and an army of Time warped conservation buffs saying no to buildings such as BEETHAM DEANSGATE and various other over bearing towers that seem to be springing up in unusual random spots on the city centre fringes (three sentinels they're being referred to as)

I really am not bias, there was a time when I would run to the defence of Liverpool, but Manchester to me is as much a home as Liverpool and i am concerned for its development. What angers me about these forums is there are still people who wont give Liverpool credit were it is due, Liverpool is one of the UK's biggest most famous cities, bursting with potential, and yet, despite the government pandering to its favourite, Manchester, whenever money comes this way, Liverpool has managed to explode onto the regeneration scene in the last 5 years in an imaginable way compared to what was forecast around 10 years ago:

GROSVENOR HENDERSON
LIME STREET REGENERATION
KINGS ARENA
PRINCES DOCK
ST PAULS SQUARE/COMMERCIAL QUARTER

to name but a few, and lets not forget the biggest berometer of all, Liverpool John Lennon airport.

If these are a sign of a continuing trend in Liverpool then, as one Magazine stated "soon liverpool will be bloodying the nose of its rival at the end of the M602" but again, this kind of progaganda only encourages this silly rivally. To rap this up, Manchester - with regards Liverpool, credit were it is due, and get ready for a challenging few years to come - Liverpool: look at your neighbour, and drop the HERITAGE CRAP!

and finally, to both cities, your almost exactly the same in more ways than you know, but at the end of the day, LIVERPOOL is LIVERPOOL!!!! and MANCHESTER is MANCHESTER!!!!!

Im getting down of soap box!

does anyone remember north west tonight when an american came over to do a report on all our citys and his favourite was liverpool he said manchester has no identity.

does anyone remember north west tonight when an american came over to do a report on all our citys and his favourite was liverpool he said manchester has no identity.
......shame it wasn't Glazer........ ;)

......shame it wasn't Glazer........ ;)
ha glazer why is he always constantly smiling and nearly falling over.

Im sure if Manchester had some huge building such as the Liver building, St georges hall or Anglican Cathedral there would have been some more point of reference

Yes, because Manchester doesn't do old AND big does it... :crazy:

http://img144.exs.cx/img144/1106/569rq.jpg

http://img135.echo.cx/img135/6973/2693fw.jpg

http://img135.echo.cx/img135/2438/2709qy.jpg

http://img155.exs.cx/img155/8918/2413es.jpg

Maybe we should just give up because we obviously can't manage huge old buildings here in woolville. :ohno:

Line up some of Manchesters older buildings on the Liverpool waterfront and it would look as impressuive as the graces. Scouse yuppie01 that is a very sensible post I love visiting both cities. Like you say Manchester is ahead in terms of Contemparary archetecture. But doesnt have the likes of the Anglican catherdral which Is one of the most impressive cathedrals in the uk. If not the world like you say this world heritage status for the water front mifgt make skyscrapers difficult to get through planning ..look at the fiasco over the beetham west tower.

You must have gone to some posh school Sloyne?
We (Ontario) are building schools like that now.
You slate one of Manchesters many new developments!(Urbis, CJC, Beetham, etc,etc) This time the Bridgewater Hall, yet you have had no new buildings for years or that compare to ours!

You can't even get the fourth Grace right! Look what you've ended up with!
Salford University have a similar building planned for their media and arts course!! What does that say about Liverpool?
I'm confused, when did I "slate" it? I did say, to me, "it looks like a high school". As for Liverpool, you're 100% correct. It is blighted with the most mundane of officialdom, elected, employed and appointed. Personally, I think they must be corrupt, for how else would you explain what has gone on in that city since WWII? Not everything can be blamed on Thatcher and Hatton.
But! and it is in your favour that Liverpool leadership is so inept otherwise they would have left you in the dust.



By all means try and slate our new builds! But before you do, A, make sure you have some of your own and B, make sure there comparable to ours!
By "YOUR" I assume you are referring to Liverpool? I live in the GTA (Greater Toronto Area) and, I can assure you that what we have in the built environment campares, favourably, with any city in the world. One of your (British) most famous actors and commentators described Toronto as "New York run by the Swiss", that was Peter Ustinov. Not a bad accolade I would say. Far better than"An airport with a city attached" , wouldn't you agree? :)

JRB you missed the ;) off the end of my quote. Please don't try to make me look bad by quoting what you want to see and not what the exact meaning of my post was.

By "YOUR" I assume you are referring to Liverpool? I live in the GTA (Greater Toronto Area) and, I can assure you that what we have in the built environment campares, favourably, with any city in the world. One of your (British) most famous actors and commentators described Toronto as "New York run by the Swiss", that was Peter Ustinov. Not a bad accolade I would say. Far better than"An airport with a city attached" , wouldn't you agree? :)
As you've been told, Bill Bryson took back his comments when he visited the city again in 2003, only 10 years since he made the comments.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/3228907.stm

As he carried out the opening he said he did not feel "at all guilty" about the comments he made about the mall and Manchester itself - "an airport with a city attached" - in his book "Notes From a Small Island".

"When I wrote that it was true," said the writer, who now lives in Norfolk. "But it has changed. It's really unbelievable. I don't recognise where I am."

Also note what he said about the Arndale Centre. This was after just a £10 million revamp, not the £150 million one that's going on now!

However, on Thursday he said the shopping centre was "a thousand times better" after undergoing a £10m refurbishment.

"To be completely honest I would rather be at Salisbury Cathedral but the world does need shopping centres," said Bryson.

"This used to be a cold forbidding thing separate from the city centre, now it is concentrated on what is going on around it."

Bryson even said he "felt a pang when he saw the tiles being ripped off".

Also, I think Lonely Planet had some good things to say...

The town that started the industrial revolution is stepping out of the steam-and-sweat age and into a swanky, partying juvenilia. But 'Madchester' is more than just froth-at-the-mouth football and high-class party jinks - there's also museums, fine dining and excellent shopping.

Hang for long enough among the trendy bars and boutiques of the bohemian Northern Quarter, the chic, self-possessed stylings of the Castlefield area and the loud-and-proud attitude of the Gay Village, and you too will be infected with the palpable confidence of this reborn city

does anyone remember north west tonight when an american came over to do a report on all our citys and his favourite was liverpool he said manchester has no identity.
That was Bill Bryson the American travel writer and he didn't "come over" he was a long time resident of England. He wrote a book "Notes from a Small Island" and in the book he wrote "Manchester is a airport with a city attached'. The sentence resonates, even today, and gives travellers a idea that Manchester is the sum of it's airport. Mancunians, and rightly so, resent this labelling but, true or not, this is exactly the same type of jaundiced label that certain Mancunians stick on Liverpool "Scallies, thieves, yobs, druggies, layabouts, shiftless etc, at al, ad nauseum". Fortunately, for Liverpool, this perception is restricted to the UK. Liverpool in the rest of the world is thought of with fondness and affection. The Bryson quote, however, has reached a world-wide audience and the book is still on the shelves of bookstores, worldwide and especially at airports.

However, the Bryson book is a excellent read, very humurous and entertaining. I would recommend readin it on a trans-Atlantic flight.

......shame it wasn't Glazer........ ;)

He done good things for the Bucks but, he done great things for his own bank account. Got a stadium from Tampa and Hillsborough county.

BTW, for anyone who cares, the Manchester Balloon Festival was on this weekend. The "Babybel Balloon" was there, amongst many more:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/manchester/content/images/2005/06/10/babybel_200x250.jpg

One of Europe's largest balloon festivals. :)

...

Bryson mellows to Manchester
Paul Taylor - MEN, Wednesday, 2nd February 2005

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/ContentResources/41.$plit/C_17_Articles_144789_BodyWeb_Detail_0_Image.jpg
PINT: Bill Bryson

HE is the American writer who, famously, rubbished Manchester in print.

But Bill Bryson arrived for the summit on Sustainable Communities admitting that he had now completely changed his mind about the city.

"If you had asked me ten years ago whether Manchester was a place that I would find a desirable destination, I'd have given you a hollow laugh," he said. "I'm very happy to eat my words because the place has been transformed."

Iowa-born Bryson, now an English Heritage commissioner living near Norwich, was scornful of Manchester when he visited here researching his best-selling travel book Notes From A Small Island, published in 1995.

He wrote of "dank and strangely-lit streets", chain restaurants with "big plastic menus and dismal food" and summed Manchester up as "a perennial blank - an airport with a city attached".

Bryson reserved his greatest loathing for the Arndale Centre, its tiles resembling "the world's largest gents' lavatory".

"The thing I felt about Manchester, probably very unfairly, was that unlike Liverpool, Newcastle and Glasgow - three other old industrial cities - it had less sense of itself," Bryson said.

"People in Liverpool have always - in good ways and bad - had a real sense of themselves. It felt like the city had ambitions to have The Olympics and that sort of thing, but without really having worked on the infrastructure. Now the situation is reversed."

Character

Bryson dropped in at the Peveril Of The Peak pub in city centre Great Bridgewater Street, to launch a new English Heritage book, Licensed To Sell, celebrating the history and surviving heritage of the great British pub.

"The pub is a really important part of the heritage," said Bryson. "I lived for eight years in a village in the Yorkshire Dales and the pub was the village hall, the community's living room."

He went on to take part in a debate at the Sustainable Communities summit, putting the case for the part heritage will play in the communities of the future.

"People do appreciate old things, not just the tourist-type bits of heritage, but places like this pub and old bank buildings and schools," he said.

"If you look at the types of houses that people want to live in, they almost always would prefer to have some old property with character. I come from a part of the world, which has very little in the way of preserved built heritage.

"We don't have any 500-year old buildings because there was nobody there 500 years ago to build them. You are incredibly lucky in this country to have so much.

"It is ironic that a big part of what is making Manchester and Birmingham and Liverpool modern cities is regeneration of the old stuff. "

As you've been told, Bill Bryson took back his comments when he visited the city again in 2003, only 10 years since he made the comments.

But who knows this? I'm sure people, worldwide, who buy the book will not seek out DickyBird for an update and re-edit. No Dicky, i'm afraid the label will stick just like Wigans label in Orwells "Road to Wigan Pier". :tongue3:

One of Europe's largest balloon festivals. :)

I know, i've seen them discarded in the local canals the day after. Or am I seeing the wrong balloons? :banana:

I know, i've seen them discarded in the local canals the day after. Or am I seeing the wrong balloons? :banana:
That would be the Pride festival...

But who knows this? I'm sure people, worldwide, who buy the book will not seek out DickyBird for an update and re-edit. No Dicky, i'm afraid the label will stick just like Wigans label in Orwells "Road to Wigan Pier". :tongue3:
It hasn't stuck, though. I mean just read what the world's best selling travel book had to say about us. :)

That would be the Pride festival...
Yes, of course, I think I saw it on a television newscast. Was that you waving? I couldn't really tell if it was you or not, you beeing in drag and all. :pepper:

It hasn't stuck, though.
It stuck Dicky, it stuck. :yes:

This thread is nothing more than a blatant attempt to up the post count of the Liverpool forum.

This thread is nothing more than a blatant attempt to up the post count of the Liverpool forum.
AND UP YOUR POST COUNT TOO! :tongue:

It hasn't stuck, though. I mean just read what the world's best selling travel book had to say about us. :)
Sloyne's about a decade out of sinc. That's what too much Florida sun can do to your brain. Make allowances for him, EB. ;)

It stuck Dicky, it stuck. :yes:
We're like Teflon Tony. When the shit hits the fan and goes flying at him it just seems to slide off him and land on his backbenchers instead. Same with Manchester. The shit hit the fan, but it landed on Liverpool. The simple fact is we knew we were better than that review and set out to prove it instead of just sticking with what we already had and turning it into a museum. :)

BTW, for anyone who cares, the Manchester Balloon Festival was on this weekend. The "Babybel Balloon" was there, amongst many more:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/manchester/content/images/2005/06/10/babybel_200x250.jpg

One of Europe's largest balloon festivals. :)

Only "one of", not "the"? Surely something is wrong here. You mean there may be a larger balloon festival somewhere else in Europe? And larger in terms of ..number of balloons, aggregate or average time balloons spend aloft, number of spectators...?? Surely you can define "larger" in such a way as to establish as a fact that the Manchester balloon festival is the largest in Europe. Maybe just by an unspoken caveat "today", which you can reveal you intended a dozen posts later on...

This festivalitis reminds me of towns like Milton Keynes, they go a bit overboard trying to establish a sense of "personality". The "cow parade" had a similarly small-town feel of naivety and "wackiness" about it, not at all what one expects of one of the Norths large cities.

Only "one of", not "the"? Surely something is wrong here. You mean there may be a larger balloon festival somewhere else in Europe? And larget in terms of ..number of balloons, time balloons spend aloft, number of spectators...?? Surely you can define "larger" in such a way as to establish as a fact that the Manchester balloon festival is the largest in Europe. Maybe just by an unspoken caveat "today", which you can reveal you intended a dozen posts later on...
It's one of the largest in Europe (and the largest in the UK) in terms of both number of balloons and spectators.

This festivalitis reminds me of towns like Milton Keynes, they go a bit overboard trying to establish a sense of "personality". The "cow parade" had a similarly small-town feel of naivety and "wackiness" about it, not at all what one expects of one of the Norths large cities.
Funny how you choose the cow parade when you say that about a small town feel... I mean lets look at a list of some cities that have had cow parades. Sao Paulo, Barcelona, Monaco, Moscow, Prague, Stockholm, Tokyo, New York City, Houston, London, Sydney, Las Vegas, Auckland... oh yeah, and Manchester. :) It's in Mexico City this year. Just another small town though I suppose.

as did douglas in the isle of man

as did douglas in the isle of man
As did Geneva, Bucharest, Cape Town, Warsaw and Dublin. :)

Sloyne's about a decade out of sinc. That's what too much Florida sun can do to your brain. Make allowances for him, EB. ;)

Very perceptive of you miles, or is it Sir. A title about a thousand years out of sinc. Which damsel in distress did you slay the dragon for? Bet it was the Lady Fivefingers. :)

[QUOTE=EarlyBirdWhen the shit hits the fan and goes flying at him it just seems to slide off him and land on his backbenchers instead.[/QUOTE]

Then keep you eyes on those Scousers because they are bringing it back in the truck load and dumping it back on your streets. Thanks to your post, I will have to revise the warning I give to my clients when visiting Manc-chester"Not to look up in case they stand in dogshit" It was, according to you, it was human shit all along. Thanks DickyBird.

... I mean lets look at a list of some cities that have had cow parades. Sao Paulo, Barcelona, Monaco, Moscow, Prague, Stockholm, Tokyo, New York City, Houston, London, Sydney, Las Vegas, Auckland... oh yeah, and Manchester. :) It's in Mexico City this year. Just another small town though I suppose.

Yes but it is not a big thing in those cities, it would go entirely unnoticed by most people in London, for example, whereas in Manchester it was a BIG THING, with cow statues everwhere, people getting excited about them, even pride of them. I complained at the time about the NWDA commissioning a cow to exhibit in Manchester with a Liver Bird on it - abusing DTI money to create a false regional culture, and completely failing (not least by causing offence to Liverpool).

It's not city-bashing per se, but sometimes you can try a bit too hard to try to create a bit of urban life and personality. Cities with depth, diversity and heritage don't have to try too hard. Exciting cities just are exciting because of the places they are and the mood and style of the people - they don't need a daily diet of "biggest cow festival in England", "biggest balloon festival outside Slovenia", "bigger gay pride than Sydney" blah blah.... Now, Liverpool gets more than its fair share of made-up nonsense as well, Manchester is not unique, but you give the impression in your posts that Manchester puts more into these things and values them more highly.

It's the newer or 'chip on the shoulder' cities that go beserk trying to fill the calender with made-up events. It's harmless enough, nice for the kids, but sends a message to some (like me) that this might be a place lacking in heritage and real urban culture.

Yes but it is not a big thing in those cities, it would go entirely unnoticed by most people in London, for example, whereas in Manchester it was a BIG THING, with cow statues everwhere, people getting excited about them, even pride of them. I complained at the time about the NWDA commissioning a cow to exhibit in Manchester with a Liver Bird on it - abusing DTI money to create a false regional culture, and completely failing (not least by causing offence to Liverpool).
It's been a big thing in ALL the cities it's been in. Every city it's been in has had international media coverage from it and all the tourism offices in the different cities have held checkcards so you can check off the cows as you see them. I mean nearly 240,000 articles have been written about the London Cow Parade, compared to nearly 60,000 for the Manchester one. How, therefore, can you make out that it's a bigger deal here? :crazy:

It's not city-bashing per se, but sometimes you can try a bit too hard to try to create a bit of urban life and personality. Cities with depth, diversity and heritage don't have to try too hard. Exciting cities just are exciting because of the places they are and the mood and style of the people - they don't need a daily diet of "biggest cow festival in England", "biggest balloon festival outside Slovenia", "bigger gay pride than Sydney" blah blah.... Now, Liverpool gets more than its fair share of made-up nonsense as well, Manchester is not unique, but you give the impression in your posts that Manchester puts more into these things and values them more highly.
It's got nothing to do with creating urban life or personality. It's about giving the people who live there more things to do. Every single weekend in Manchester there is some large event being put on, meaning we always have somewhere to go. Why on all this earth would someone who has visited a "living museum" type city choose to go back there time after time? They wouldn't. People go back to cities time and again because they offer different things.

It's the newer or 'chip on the shoulder' cities that go beserk trying to fill the calender with made-up events. It's harmless enough, nice for the kids, but sends a message to some (like me) that this might be a place lacking in heritage and real urban culture.
And to me it sends the message that it's the kind of place you'll always find something to do. You think cities like London and New York don't have large scale events on every weekend?

Your Scouse jealousy is really starting to show through now. :ohno:

That was Bill Bryson the American travel writer and he didn't "come over" he was a long time resident of England. He wrote a book "Notes from a Small Island" and in the book he wrote "Manchester is a airport with a city attached'. The sentence resonates, even today, and gives travellers a idea that Manchester is the sum of it's airport. Mancunians, and rightly so, resent this labelling but, true or not, this is exactly the same type of jaundiced label that certain Mancunians stick on Liverpool "Scallies, thieves, yobs, druggies, layabouts, shiftless etc, at al, ad nauseum". Fortunately, for Liverpool, this perception is restricted to the UK. Liverpool in the rest of the world is thought of with fondness and affection. The Bryson quote, however, has reached a world-wide audience and the book is still on the shelves of bookstores, worldwide and especially at airports.

However, the Bryson book is a excellent read, very humurous and entertaining. I would recommend readin it on a trans-Atlantic flight.
thanks for the info sloyne i remember he called manchester rotten he also said liverpool had way too much litter which is true.

It's one of the largest in Europe (and the largest in the UK) in terms of both number of balloons and spectators.


How very apt. I'm sure you'll personally be on hand to prove the hot air to inflate them all. :blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah:

:D

i remember he called manchester rotten
No he didn't. :)

Bryson's retractions on Manchester smell to me like the words of guy who knows he's upset alot of people, and as he's a nice enough person and has to live here, decided to bury the hatchet.

What did he say again?

"a thousand times better"

Hardly the most meaningful or insightful comment he could offer on a place. Especially from such a insightful and well thought of travel writer.

Still...if it helps EB sleep easier in his cot tonight. :pet: :D

No he didn't. :)
he did gordon burley had ago at him.

Bryson's retractions on Manchester smell to me like the words of guy who knows he's upset alot of people, and as he's a nice enough person and has to live here, decided to bury the hatchet.

What did he say again?

"a thousand times better"

Hardly the most meaningful or insightful comment he could offer on a place. Especially from such a insightful and well thought of travel writer.

Still...if it helps EB sleep easier in his cot tonight. :pet: :D
I dunno... if that was the case, I would've expected it to be more like the way Boris Johnson 'apologised' after writing the cruel stuff about Liverpool in The Spectator.

I dunno... if that was the case, I would've expected it to be more like the way Boris Johnson 'apologised' after writing the cruel stuff about Liverpool in The Spectator.

Yeah...and that was bullshit as well.

It's been a big thing in ALL the cities it's been in. Every city it's been in has had international media coverage from it and all the tourism offices in the different cities have held checkcards so you can check off the cows as you see them. I mean nearly 240,000 articles have been written about the London Cow Parade, compared to nearly 60,000 for the Manchester one. How, therefore, can you make out that it's a bigger deal here? :crazy:



Early, this is an example of where your worldview prevents you from comprehending reality. I lived in London for 20 years, and have worked and studied it in for longer than that, and believe me that no-one there gives a shit about a cow parade or will remember it having be held. Never mind the fantasy, London really is a big and world scale city, (no other city in Europe competes with its status, not even Paris) and whenever the cows came (I won't even look it up, I dont need to) I can assure you that many other things were also happening, and that Londoners in the main didn't even blink.

You spend too much on the internet looking up facts and figures, and you have become quite literally a fool. Regarldess of your lack of judgement and discrimination about sources of evidence, and your lack of skill in interpretation and presentation of statistics, you still seem to believe that the number of times something is counted somehow equates to its importance. It does not. The cows mattered to Manchester. Bigger and more sophisticated cities just shrugged and moved on. It does not matter how many times somone typed "cow Manchester" or "cow London" into google, that is irrelevant.

If I was your life mentor I would require you not to use the internet for one year as a condition of trying to help you.

Very perceptive of you miles, or is it Sir. A title about a thousand years out of sinc. Which damsel in distress did you slay the dragon for? Bet it was the Lady Fivefingers. :)
Tsk tsk......I was hoping you'd keep your sister out of this...... ;)

Tsk tsk......I was hoping you'd keep your sister out of this...... ;)

Sloyne, don't banter with this creature, he is a guttersnipe.

AKA Sir Piles Shitting :D

Liverpolitan, nobody in Manchester really cared about Cow Parade to be honest. Everyone I spoke to just said ''Why the hell are their cows all over the place it looks stupid'' etc etc

But still, it's a charity event, why are you having a go at a charity event?

This thread is nothing more than a blatant attempt to up the post count of the Liverpool forum.

Truth. Without this thread the Liverpool forum would actually be below the Manc forum in post counts, once again, where it belongs some would say.

Truth. Without this thread the Liverpool forum would actually be below the Manc forum in post counts, once again, where it belongs some would say.

Really?

I thought it was an attempt by turd to constantly keep on trumpeting Manchester at the top of Liverpool's forum and inflate his ego as the post count and read numbers went ever higher.

Truth. Without this thread the Liverpool forum would actually be below the Manc forum in post counts, once again, where it belongs some would say.

I know that, but do EB and those in Manchester City Council who got so excited about it?

http://www.iomguide.com/interests/cow-parade/cow-parade.php

Even the Isle of Man is in the act.

It's a suckingly awful thing, the antithesis of culture or creativity. It is corporate and globalised culture at its most soul-destroyingly banal. All the cows are the same, you just paint them locally. It's "smashy and nicey" culture, "hey kids, paint a cow and raise money for charidy".... You can see why immature and low calibre civic regeneration officials would like it - banal, transferable, "cosmopolitan".....and note how EB liked to link Manchester to bigger and more important cities in his little list of "cow parade" towns?

Truth. Without this thread the Liverpool forum would actually be below the Manc forum in post counts, once again, where it belongs some would say.

Oh, and have you counted the number of pointless "pictures are a good reply because you have beaten me with words" posts on the Piccadilly Gardens thread I started on the Manchester Forum? And what about the "Naepolitan" thread started in my "honour" on the Manchester Forum? Or the countless posts full of bogus statistics and boasts by EB on that Forum? After all, if nothing else, on this thread EB has been proven to be entirely unreliable from the perspective of reporting evidence. I nailed him down on that, and he stopped replying, because he realised he was wrong. He doesn't understand how to measure the quality of different sources of evidence, and has no understanding of simple descriptive statistics. That has been proven, so he is now no longer a credible source of any information at all here.

There are more good posts (from me at least) on this Forum than in some entire threads on the Manchester Forum. You just don't happen to agree with them.

and note how EB liked to link Manchester to bigger and more important cities in his little list of "cow parade" towns?
It's got nothing to do with that. The simple fact of the matter is that there were only two cities smaller than Manchester that have ever held it. :)

Early, this is an example of where your worldview prevents you from comprehending reality. I lived in London for 20 years, and have worked and studied it in for longer than that, and believe me that no-one there gives a shit about a cow parade or will remember it having be held. Never mind the fantasy, London really is a big and world scale city, (no other city in Europe competes with its status, not even Paris) and whenever the cows came (I won't even look it up, I dont need to) I can assure you that many other things were also happening, and that Londoners in the main didn't even blink.

You spend too much on the internet looking up facts and figures, and you have become quite literally a fool. Regarldess of your lack of judgement and discrimination about sources of evidence, and your lack of skill in interpretation and presentation of statistics, you still seem to believe that the number of times something is counted somehow equates to its importance. It does not. The cows mattered to Manchester. Bigger and more sophisticated cities just shrugged and moved on. It does not matter how many times somone typed "cow Manchester" or "cow London" into google, that is irrelevant.

If I was your life mentor I would require you not to use the internet for one year as a condition of trying to help you.

I'm not even going to comment on this. Liverpolitan, you've left the Manchester forum (and Citytalk threads too) with your tail between your legs so often it's not funny. For you to try even mentioning biased sources, dodgy statistics or lack of evidence simply stinks of hypocrisy. Piccadilly Gardens is awful? Well some Manc forumers might think it could have been done better, but that doesn't make it awful. Lonely Planet said it was a "charming" public space. Manchester full of dog shit and tramps? Care to back this up with some kind of statistical evidence Poli?

You're just an immature child and I'm not wasting any more time on you.

http://www.cowparade.com/press/96

Are you sure? And what point are you making with that claim anyway?

Oh, and have you counted the number of pointless "pictures are a good reply because you have beaten me with words" posts on the Piccadilly Gardens thread I started on the Manchester Forum? And what about the "Naepolitan" thread started in my "honour" on the Manchester Forum? Or the countless posts full of bogus statistics and boasts by EB on that Forum? After all, if nothing else, on this thread EB has been proven to be entirely unreliable from the perspective of reporting evidence. I nailed him down on that, and he stopped replying, because he realised he was wrong. He doesn't understand how to measure the quality of different sources of evidence, and has no understanding of simple descriptive statistics. That has been proven, so he is now no longer a credible source of any information at all here.

There are more good posts (from me at least) on this Forum than in some entire threads on the Manchester Forum. You just don't happen to agree with them.

The Piccadilly Gardens 'photo treatment' amounted to about 30 posts. The Neopolitan thread a massive 38 posts. There is nothing on the Manchester forum that is as provocative and spam full as this.

It does not matter how many times somone typed "cow Manchester" or "cow London" into google, that is irrelevant.
BTW, for your information, a hit count in Google is actually how many web pages contained the phrases "Cow Parade" and "London" or "Manchester". Isn't it amazing how more people talked about the London one...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/arts/2042730.stm

Oh look... A BBC article about the London cow parade.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3531684.stm

Oh look... a BBC article about the Prague cow parade.

I'm not even going to comment on this. Liverpolitan, you've left the Manchester forum (and Citytalk threads too) with your tail between your legs so often it's not funny. For you to try even mentioning biased sources, dodgy statistics or lack of evidence simply stinks of hypocrisy. Piccadilly Gardens is awful? Well some Manc forumers might think it could have been done better, but that doesn't make it awful. Lonely Planet said it was a "charming" public space. Manchester full of dog shit and tramps? Care to back this up with some kind of statistical evidence Poli?

You're just an immature child and I'm not wasting any more time on you.


The Earlybird Syndrome: Deny and Divert. First he automatically denies any fault, no matter what it is - it is automatic and he rarely bothers to actually explain why he disagrees. Then he diverts attention, onto something or someone else. Always. He does it here, as throughout this thread.

Earlybird, you have no credibility. You run away when challenged, and lack the maturity or honesty to admit it when you are wrong.

The Piccadilly Gardens 'photo treatment' amounted to about 30 posts. The Neopolitan thread a massive 38 posts. There is nothing on the Manchester forum that is as provocative and spam full as this.

Really? What about all the Harry Enfield "scouser" pictures posted there?

Personally I don't care for this thread particularly, it's distracted attention and energy, but perhaps it hints a little at how bored some on the Manchester Forum have become there if they were so easily drawn over to spout nonsense here. After all, the substantive and interesting threads on the Liverpool Forum have shown healthy chatter while this thread has continued, and some of the regulars on the Liverpool Forum are not posting on this rogue thread at all, or very rarely.

There is little more provocative than a lie intended to belittle. That is Earlybird's stock in trade. He lies in order to belittle Great Northern Cities (other than Manchester) and has been shown doing that on this thread. He is a city basher extraordinaire, a person so deluded he cannot accept the status or position of his preferred city relative to its neighbours. This thread has exposed his almost pathological inability to ever admit to the truth.

BTW, for your information, a hit count in Google is actually how many web pages contained the phrases "Cow Parade" and "London" or "Manchester". Isn't it amazing how more people talked about the London one...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/arts/2042730.stm

Oh look... A BBC article about the London cow parade.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3531684.stm

Oh look... a BBC article about the Prague cow parade.

You have entirely missed the point of my post. Please can you read it again, and if you still think this was a reasonable and valid response, let me know? Thanks.

I refer people to this:

Bullshitter (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=4432600#post4432600)

Spin doctoring twat. He really should find a better use for those communication modules he did at uni :D

I nailed him down on that, and he stopped replying, because he realised he was wrong. He doesn't understand how to measure the quality of different sources of evidence, and has no understanding of simple descriptive statistics. That has been proven, so he is now no longer a credible source of any information at all here.
You've not "nailed me down" at all. For the hundredth time, THERE IS NO POINT IN ME SEARCHING FOR SOURCES IF SOME BASIC SOMES PROVE THINGS RIGHT. As for statistics, I proved every single claim you made in this thread wrong but you refuse to accept it. I am qualified in the subject matter at hand. I have to be because statistics form a large proportion of my job. You, however, seem to have about as much grasp of statistics as your average Asda worker.

As for credible sources of information, you have NEVER been one. Every thread you go in you get laughed out of there. Just look at your Piccadilly Gardens thread!

Here is your standard Poli argument.

Poli: 1+1=3

Manc forumer: No it doesn't, it's 2

Poli: Prove it then, provide a source

Manc forumer: It's obvious that 1+1=2 Poli. If you have one object in your hand and put another with it then you have two objects in your hand.

Poli: Prove it.

Manc forumer: Look in Google. The Google calculator says 1+1=2 and thousands of web pages have 1+1=2 on them. Look how few have 1+1=3 on them.

Poli: You are useless at statistics. Compare apples with apples. You can't say 1+1=2 just because more web pages say it is and a calculator says it is. 1+1=3.

Manc forumer: You're a complete idiot Poli.

Poli: See. I've won the argument. You can't beat my excellent logic and result to name calling. Thanks for proving to the world that 1+1=3.

Manc forumer: Whatever Poli.

This thread is nothing more than a blatant attempt to up the post count of the Liverpool forum.

Weaste, its okay. This thread is therapy. Its pure catharsis for a lot of jealous and petty minded individuals to vent some spleen that would otherwise be all pent up and would go unexpressed. Better out than in eh?

Its also encouraging a good deal of creativity in our scouse friends too. I wonder how many conspiracy theories they can come up with to explain Liverpool's relative lack of success as compared with its bigger and more illustrious North West neighbour? Its called The Blame Game and seems to be a popular pastime on Merseyside right now due the official endorsement given to it by their incompetent council leadership.

Nope. This thread is needed and is most definitely a good thing in terms of the positive health benefits its provides to scoucers far and wide.

More power to this thread! Yay! :)

There now. Even though I feel slightly dirty and ashamed for dipping my toe into this most filthy of threads I do feel slightly happier too.

There you go then. Proof positive of the kind of benefits I was talking about. :) :) :)

There is little more provocative than a lie intended to belittle. That is Earlybird's stock in trade. He lies in order to belittle Great Northern Cities (other than Manchester) and has been shown doing that on this thread. He is a city basher extraordinaire, a person so deluded he cannot accept the status or position of his preferred city relative to its neighbours. This thread has exposed his almost pathological inability to ever admit to the truth.

Isn't it funny how Scousers accuse me of lying and Mancunians accuse me of being selective with figures? Have you ever thought that maybe it's YOU who is in the wrong Poli?

I have freely admitted multiple times that I'm selective with statistics. The thing is, though, that I have NEVER lied about anything I've said. It's called "spin", i.e. you don't tell a lie, but you entirely focus on the good aspects of the situation. In the Manc forums I'm willing to talk about the bad in our city and how to improve it. Outside it, though, I focus entirely on the good. At the end of the day, it's what American's, the kings of spin, have been doing for decades. Putting it simply, I'd rather show people the good stuff as these are the places they'll go to see if they come here. It is people who live here who have to deal with the bad parts, hence why I include them on our forum.

Simply put, I've not told a single lie in this thread or any other and I find it offensive that someone would accuse me of it, especially someone like you Poli.

Weaste, its okay. This thread is therapy. Its pure catharsis for a lot of jealous and petty minded individuals to vent some spleen that would otherwise be all pent up and would go unexpressed. Better out than in eh?

Its also encouraging a good deal of creativity in our scouse friends too. I wonder how many conspiracy theories they can come up with to explain Liverpool's relative lack of success as compared with its bigger and more illustrious North West neighbour? Its called The Blame Game and seems to be a popular pastime on Merseyside right now due the official endorsement given to it by their incompetent council leadership.

Nope. This thread is needed and is most definitely a good thing in terms of the positive health benefits its provides to scoucers far and wide.

More power to this thread! Yay! :)

Really?

I know everytime I have come on here EB has never been more then a few hours away from making a post, sometimes derogitory, and always hoping for a serious reaction. I can't speak for anyone else but I've just come on here to take the piss out of him. :)

It's the newer or 'chip on the shoulder' cities that go beserk trying to fill the calender with made-up events. It's harmless enough, nice for the kids, but sends a message to some (like me) that this might be a place lacking in heritage and real urban culture.

Like Toronto and Mantreal, Dallas and Baltimore, Manchester and Liverpool?

Tsk tsk......I was hoping you'd keep your sister out of this...... ;)

You know her? Are you the one? Yeah, it sounds like something you would do, I mean, and as you know, anyone that would take on my sister would have to have a grudge against his c***. But then you live in ugly Manc-chester so I guess she would look beautiful to you.

AKA Sir Piles Shitting
I love it and will, with your permission, use it in future. Thanks in advance. :rofl:

You've not "nailed me down" at all.

Yes, I am afraid I have.

Read post 427 on this thread, your reply in the form of post 433, and my reply in post 435. You chose to ignore that, because I had demonsrated that post 433 did not convince or satisfy as a response to post 427.

You seem to have no ability to describe or apply statistical information. If that is a requirement of your job, well I am sorry to hear that. More worrying, as regards your employability and career prospects, is your ability to learn. You make mistakes. We all do. You make a lot. You never seem to realise when you have made mistakes, that is what marks you out as unusual.

You have lost this particular one. As a source of statistical information I would trust my cat more than I would trust you.

Isn't it funny how Scousers accuse me of lying.
And "Hogtowners" (Torontonians) join them.

But then you live in ugly Manc-chester so I guess she would look beautiful to you.

Noooooo don't be silly, walk through Manchester on a sunny day and you are surrounded by talent.

Noooooo don't be silly, walk through Manchester on a sunny day and you are surrounded by talent.

At present, both on and off Broadway, there are five shows with British authors, three of them from Liverpool; Shirley Valentine, Blood Brothers, Educating Rita. Now that's talent, and the author is from Liverpool.

By talent, I meant attractive females.

he did gordon burley had ago at him.

no he didn't, you've just made that up. He said it had "dank and strangely-lit streets" amongst other things- and it did have in 1994. But he has totally changed his views now:

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/news/s/144/144789_bryson_mellows_to_manchester.html

another quote:

"It is ironic that a big part of what is making Manchester and Birmingham and Liverpool modern cities is regeneration of the old stuff. "

Over 600 posts! :lol:

Fucking surreal!

By talent, I meant attractive females.
If you say so. But you didn't comment on Willy Russell so I am assuming you also, and remembering he is a Scouser, think he is talented.

sloyne, what is your connection with liverpool? just curious.

this thread is getting on my nerves its just got trouble all the way through it stupid.

How long is this thread going on for? Seeing it appear at the top of the front page all the time is nearly as annoying as the infamous "Fucking Dutch" thread.

Brydon 'Tales from a Small Island' quotes:

Page 224, para 3: Apart from Ena Sharples and L.S.Lowrey, I couldn't name a single great Mancunian.

Page 225, para 1: If I haven't got a very clear image of the city. it's not entirely my fault. Manchester doesn't appear to have a fixed image of itself.

And as for Sir Piles Shitting saying that the book is a decade out of date; well just like yesterdays newspaper if you haven't read it, it is still news. Every one of my clients, journeying to Britain, is given the paperback edition of Notes from a Small Island so they will be reading itau courant.

Over 600 posts! :lol:

Fucking surreal!

Blame that prick earlybird for coming in here in the first place and basically picking fights with people for three days solid.

Page 224, para 3: Apart from Ena Sharples and L.S.Lowrey, I couldn't name a single great Mancunian.

Well, Bryson must be a little thick!

pjmulholland

Really?

I know everytime I have come on here EB has never been more then a few hours away from making a post, sometimes derogitory, and always hoping for a serious reaction. I can't speak for anyone else but I've just come on here to take the piss out of him.

And that quote comes from the same person who posted this on the Manchester Media thread and hasn't been back since! Is it because he never got a reaction?

How about a few TV jobs in Liverpool while you're at it.
There are TWO big cities in the NW you know.

Its nice to know you think Manchester is just as big as Liverpool PJ! :)

Yes, I am afraid I have.

Read post 427 on this thread, your reply in the form of post 433, and my reply in post 435. You chose to ignore that, because I had demonsrated that post 433 did not convince or satisfy as a response to post 427.

You seem to have no ability to describe or apply statistical information. If that is a requirement of your job, well I am sorry to hear that. More worrying, as regards your employability and career prospects, is your ability to learn. You make mistakes. We all do. You make a lot. You never seem to realise when you have made mistakes, that is what marks you out as unusual.
Poli, all I did was give you a statistic showing you current trends to show you that the situation was changing daily. The only reason I quoted the 20% figure at all was because it had been in the newspaper that day! I pointed out to you why the statistic for one of Manchester's boroughs showing a 20% drop was relevant. You chose to ignore me and repeat your meaningless drivel again and so I moved on, knowing full well that no matter how many times I answered you I would get the same rubbish in reply.

Think about it Poli. The Tameside local authority has a population not too much smaller than the City of Manchester local authority, over 10% of Greater Manchester, and had a 20% reduction in crime. It would take something serious going on in the rest of the area for overall crime figures to not have dropped over the course of the three years since your statistic was released.

What I find most ridiculous, though, is the fact you expect everybody else to contribute a fully cited thesis, otherwise you dismiss it as meaningless, biased lies, but when it comes to your own posts you seem to think it's OK to post rubbish about Manchester being full of dog shit and tramps without even attempting to back it up. Pots, kettles and the colour black spring to mind (and before you say anything, yes, I know black isn't a colour).

You have lost this particular one. As a source of statistical information I would trust my cat more than I would trust you.
No Poli, you've lost it. You can't even put together a coherent argument. "You have to cite sources every time as I have no trust but the rules don't apply to me". Grow up Poli and get a life. Why the hell would I lie about these things you prick?

yawn yawn ywan. CAW close this thread down and take earlynerd back to the greatest city on earth with a larger population than bejing (manchester) . Sorry getting carried away there.

Please take him away!

Bryson must be a little thick!
And you a lot! :rofl:

Bustcapl for president! CAW do your job and close this sad thread and ban Earlybird from posting on our forum in the future! Bloody annoying thread.

:lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock:

what does bryson know about manchester greats eh? he's from iowa.

take earlynerd back to the greatest city on earth with a larger population than bejing (manchester) .
Lonely Planet Guide had Manchester down with a population of 32 million until I corrected them. :)