Powerful Naval Forces of Europe [Archive]

Geroplatanos

June 8th, 2005, 01:08 PM

I start with the "Sachsen class frigates" of the German Navy (Bundesmarine) which is the Newest type of warships for the MARINE.

http://homepage.eircom.net/~steven/images/marine.gif

The Sachsen Class (F124) is Germany's Air Defence Frigate being built by ARGE F124, a consortium consisting of Blohm and Voss as the leading yard, Howaldtwerke-Deutsche Werft and Thyssen Nordseewerke. The frigates are being built under the Trilateral Frigate Agreement, signed by the Netherlands, Germany and Spain which provides cooperation in national construction of the frigates in each country. The ship’s medium and long range anti-air missiles are the Raytheon Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile (ESSM) and the Standard Missile SM2111-A which are fired from a VLS Mk41 thirty-two cell launcher.
They feature stealth design and accommodate the advanced multifunction radar APAR as well as the SAMRT-L long range radar. These ships will face emerging airborne threats such as supersonic anti-ship missiles and stealth aircraft.The propulsion system combines a gas turbine (23,500 KW) with two diesel engines (7,400 KW each) (CODAG)

The F124 has two Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM), Mk 31 launchers and two four-cell Harpoon missile launchers. The RAM missile from Raytheon and RAM Systems GmbH, is a fire and forget missile which provides short range defence against incoming anti-ship missiles including sea-skimming missiles The ship is fitted with two triple Mk 32 torpedo launchers and also has helicopter-borne long range lightweight torpedoes. The flight deck and hangar accommodate two NH90 helicopters.

Specifications:
Crew 255
Cruise Speed 18 kts
Main Gun Caliber 155mm 6.1-in
Endurance 21 days
Height 5 m 16-ft
Length 143 m 469-ft
Max Range 6,500 km 3,510 nm
Max Speed 30 kts
Full Displacement 5,600 tons
Number of Weapons 40
Power 31,500 shp
Span 17.4 m 57-ft

Equippment :

Aircraft Type NH90 NFH 2
Derivative of F123 Brandenburg
Electronic Gear APAR 4
Guns Mk 41 (Vertical Launch System (VLS) 32 cells for ESSM and SM2-IIIA)
Guns Mk-31 RAM 2
Guns MONARC 1
Guns 1x 76 mm OTO-Melara
Powerplant LM2500 1
Weapons ESSM 128
Weapons RGM-84D Harpoon 8
Weapons Standard SM-2 Block IIIA

Detailed description :

COMMAND AND CONTROL

A Thales Nederland (formerly Signaal) Sewaco FD combat system using a distributed real-time database and integrated communications network includes 17 multifunction consoles and processors, two large-screen tactical displays, twelve bus interface units, a COSMOS monitor, a redundant databus and distributed processing. The system uses asynchronous transfer mode (ATM) based architectures for fast data transmission.

MISSILES

The ship's medium- and long-range anti-air missiles are the Raytheon Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile (ESSM) and the Standard Missile SM2111-A which are fired from a VLS Mk41 32-cell launcher. SGS Sachsen successfully completed firing trials with ESSM and SM-2 in July / August 2004.

The F124 has two Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM), Mk 31 launchers and two four-cell Harpoon missile launchers. Boeing Harpoon is an autonomous all-weather anti-ship missile with range in excess of 65 nautical miles. The RAM missile from Raytheon and RAM Systems GmbH, is a fire-and-forget missile which provides short-range defence against incoming anti-ship missiles including sea-skimming missiles.

GUNS

The F124 is equipped with an Oto Melara 76mm gun, and two Rheinmetall 20mm guns.

A KMW PzH 2000 howitzer turret with a 155mm gun has been mounted on the deck of FGS Hamburg (F220) as a demonstration of the feasibility of the system for naval applications. The concept is called MONARC and requires a flexible elastic mounting. MONARC has a range of 22nm. Live fire trials were conducted in September 2003.

TORPEDOES

The ship is fitted with two triple Mk 32 torpedo launchers for EurotorpMU90 lightweight torpedoes and also has helicopter-borne long range lightweight torpedoes.

HELICOPTERS

The flight deck and hangar accommodate two NH90 helicopters. The flight deck is rated to accommodate a 15t class helicopter such as the Merlin, for fuelling and torpedo loading. The Helicopter Handling System from MBB-Forder und Hebesysteme uses laser guided and computer controlled manipulator arms to secure the helicopter after landing.

COUNTERMEASURES

The ship's electronic countermeasures suite includes an EADS Systems and Defence Electronics FL1800 SII ECM system and six Sippican Hycor SuperRBOC launchers which fire chaff and flares. Electronic support measures are provided by EADS Systems and Defence Electronics Maigret CESM (Communications ESM).

SENSORS

The radars include two Atlas Elektronik 9600-M I/J-band muti-function ARPA radars, Thales Nederland SMART-L long-range air and surface surveillance and target indication radar, and Thales Nederland APAR Active Phased Array Radar. APAR is a multi-function radar operating at X-band which provides target search and tracking and guidance for the Standard Missile 2.

The ship is equipped with a Thales Nederland Sirius IRST long-range infra-red surveillance and tracking sensor. STN Atlas MSP 500 electro-optical fire control system provides target acquisition and tracking for the main gun. The bow sonar is the STN Atlas Elektronik DSQS-24B.

PROPULSION

The F124 is equipped with a combined diesel and gas propulsion system, CODAG. The two operating shafts work independently. The diesel engines are installed in a non-walkable sound-proof capsule. The shafts drive two five-bladed controllable pitch propellers. In diesel mode, one of the diesel engines (type MTU 20V 1163 TB93) is operated via two main gear boxes and one cross connection gearbox. The peak performance of the diesel provides 7,400kW at 1,350rpm. The ship has an operating range of 4,000 nautical miles at a cruising speed of 18 knots in diesel mode.

In gas turbine mode, the gas turbine (model GE 7 LM2500 PF/MLG) provides 23,500kW and 3,600rpm, operating two main gearboxes and the cross connection gearbox.

In combined diesel and gas propulsion mode (CODAG-mode), both diesel engines and the gas turbine engine are operated. The maximum speed of the ship is 29 knots.

The German Navy ordered three F124-class vessels with an option for a fourth ship. (the first two allready delivered the third in 2005)

F219 Sachsen
F220 Hamburg
F221 Hessen

And some photos from the first ship of the class , F-219 SACHSEN

http://homepage.eircom.net/~steven/images/f142seatrials2.jpg

http://tobien.de/F_219_Sachsen_backbord.JPG

http://homepage.eircom.net/~steven/images/f124seatrials.jpg

RAM
http://mitglied.lycos.de/bielatal/f219_vram.JPG

SmartL
http://mitglied.lycos.de/bielatal/f219_smartl.JPG

OtoMelara
http://mitglied.lycos.de/bielatal/f219_76mm.JPG

APAR
http://mitglied.lycos.de/bielatal/f219_apar.JPG

http://mitglied.lycos.de/bielatal/f219.JPG

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/f124/images/Sachsen_13.jpg

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/f124/images/Sachsen_11.jpg

Matthieu

June 8th, 2005, 02:13 PM

Another military porn thread!!!! Here I come.

The Charles de Gaulle class

Category: Aircraft carrier

1 Unit:
R91 Charles de Gaulle
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/porteavi/cdg/blason01.jpg

It is the French aircraft carrier, it's the only nuclear carrier outside the USA. Using two nuclear reactors for its propulsion.
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/porteavi/cdg/carac011.jpghttp://www.netmarine.net/bat/porteavi/cdg/carac012.jpg

It is 261m long and 64m large, it's maximum speed is 27 knots.

The Arabel
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/divers/idoleron/photo02.jpg

The Asters
http://www.netmarine.net/armes/aster/aster.jpg
http://www.netmarine.net/armes/aster/saamp.jpg

It also has communication with sattelites enabled as command center.

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/porteavi/cdg/carac02.gif

It can operates 40 planes, actually a combination of Rafales, Super Etendards and E-2 Hawkeyes.

It required 1.950 people to operate it and it carry 800 more people has transport.

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/porteavi/cdg/carac04.jpg

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/gaulle/

CHARLES DE GAULLE NUCLEAR POWERED AIRCRAFT CARRIER, FRANCE

The 38,000t, nuclear-powered aircraft carrier Charles De Gaulle was constructed at the DCN Brest naval shipyard in Brittany. The ship was launched in May 1994 and commissioned in September 2000, following sea trials which began in January 1999. As a result of trials the landing deck has been lengthened by 4.4m to enable the E-2C to land and clear the deck quickly. The carrier was due to enter service in December 2000, but, following the breakage of a propeller blade during long-distance trials, this was delayed to April 2001. In June 2001, the carrier took part in exercises in the Mediterranean and in December 2001 left to take part in Operation Enduring Freedom where it was stationed in the Arabian Gulf. It returned to its home port of Toulon in July 2002. Super Etendard and Hawkeye E-2C aircraft carried out a number of sorties but the ship's F1 standard Rafale M fighters did not take part in operations, although they were included in exercises with the US Navy.

The French Navy plans to build a second carrier to enter service around 2014, when the Charles de Gaulle is scheduled for refueling and refit. The new carrier will not be the same class as the Charles de Gaulle; it will be a conventionally-powered carrier. It will be built by a joint venture company to be set up by DCN and Thales Naval France. The design phase for the carrier programme (PA2) was launched in January 2005 and the production phase is scheduled to begin in 2006. Discussions have been held between the French and UK governments on the possibility of a joint development with the UK's CVF carrier project, which Thales UK is designing.

Aircraft

The ship can operate a fleet of up to 40 aircraft: Rafale M (range 3,340km), Super Etendard (range 1,682km) and three E-2C Hawkeye airborne early warning aircraft. The ship will also support the AS 565 Panther or NH 90 helicopter.

The main deck consists of a main runway angled at 8.5° to the ship's axis and an aircraft launch area forward of the island. These are each equipped with a USN Type C13 catapult, capable of launching one aircraft per minute. The runway is 195m long and the whole deck measures 260 x 64m. The carrier is fitted with the EADS Systems & Defence Electronics DALAS laser landing aid.

SATRAP COMPUTERISED STABILISATION SYSTEM

The carrier is fitted with the SATRAP computerised, integrated stabilisation system designed to maintain stabilisation to within 0.5° of horizontal, allowing aircraft to be operated up to Sea State 5/6. As well as the carrier's two pairs of active stabilising fins and twin rudders, the system has two computer-controlled compensation units which consist of two rail tracks for trains carrying 22t of deadweight. These tracks run transversely below the flight deck. This system is designed to compensate for wind and heel and control roll, yaw and surge.

COMBAT MANAGEMENT SYSTEMS

The ship's weapons are managed by a Senit Combat Management System, which has the capacity to track up to 2,000 targets. The weapon control system consists of two Vigy 105 optronic directors supplied by Sagem. The ship also has two Sagem Vampir search and track systems.

In February 2004, Thales was awarded a contract for a new command and control system for the French Navy. The new system, called SIC 21, will be fitted on the Charles de Gaulle as well as other vessels and shore locations and will allow the vessel to access national or coalition command networks.

SURFACE-TO-AIR MISSILES

The SAAM (Surface Anti-Air Missile) system, developed by Eurosam (set up by MBDA and Thales), provides defence against hostile aircraft and anti-ship missiles. The system uses the Aster 15 surface-to-air missile and entered operational service in November 2002, with the first firing of the missile from the Charles de Gaulle. The Aster missile has a 13kg warhead and a range of 30km. The missile's guidance is inertial with data uplink and active radar terminal homing. For increased manoeuvrability in the terminal phase, the missile uses a 'PIF-PAF' direct thrust control system with gas jets. Two eight-cell Sylver vertical launch systems are installed on the starboard side forward of the bridge and two on the port side aft of the bridge. The system uses the Thales (formerlyThomson-CSF) Arabel radar, which is a multi-function three-dimensional radar with a range of 70km for a target area of 2m².

The ship has two six-cell Sadral launching systems for the MBDA (formerly Matra BAe Dynamics) Mistral anti-aircraft and anti-missile missile. Mistral has an infra-red seeker and a range of 4km.

GIAT 20F2 20MM GUNS

The ship is equipped with eight Giat 20F2 20mm guns, which fire 0.25kg shells at 720 rounds/min to a range of up to 8km.

COUNTERMEASURES

Four EADS Systems & Defence Electronics Sagaie 10-barrel trainable decoy launchers are installed. The system fires chaff to 8km and infra-red flares to a range of 3km. Two Thales ARBB 33 jammers, mature versions of the Salamandre, are installed to jam I-, H- and J- band radar signals. Electronic support measures include the Thales ARBR 21 radar warner. The aircraft carrier will also be fitted with a SLAT anti-torpedo system being developed by Euroslat, a consortium consisting of WASS (Whitehead Alenia Sistemi Subaqua), DCN and Thales Underwater Systems (formerly Thomson Marconi Sonar).

RADAR SENSOR SUITE

The suite of radar sensors installed on the carrier are: Thales DRBJ 11B three dimensional long range air search radar operating in the E- to F- bands; Thales DRBV 26D Jupiter medium/long range air search radar operating at D-band; Thales DRBV 15C Sea Tiger Mark 2 air and surface search radar operating at E- and F-bands; two Thales (formerly Racal) Model 1229 navigation radars operating at I-band; and the Thales Arabel fire control radar operating at I-to J-band.

PROPULSION AND POWER PLANT

The Charles De Gaulle is equipped with two nuclear pressure water reactors, PWR Type K15, which provide a speed of 27 knots. The 61MW turbines are from Alsthom. The propulsion system has the capacity to provide five years continuous operation at 25 knots before refuelling.

Pictures taken from naval technology and net marine
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/porteavi/cdg/index.htm

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/gaulle/images/gaulle14.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/porteavi/cdg/photo37.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/porteavi/cdg/photo69.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/porteavi/cdg/photo91.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/porteavi/cdg/photo96.jpg

Chopinhower

June 8th, 2005, 02:43 PM

4) Portugal, Norway,Sweden and Denmark

* It is not included in the list the Russian navy. Former EE countries are in a phase of upgrade and modernization programs (also because of NATO participation) but still there much to do to have modern navies.

the fact that the russian ukrainian polish armies dont have new equipment does not have any impact on their military capabilities. After all either f 16 or tgv train were made in the 70- ties and so far nothing better has been made. The rank is of course your private opinion and made me fun :)

Matthieu

June 8th, 2005, 02:58 PM

The Mistral Class

Category: Assault transport ship

2 units (1 finished soon to enter service, the other one scheduled for 2006):
L9013 Mistral
L9014 Tonerre

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/tcd/mistral/caract01.jpg

She's a 199M long and 32m large ship, she is designed to transport helicopter and ground armies as a projection force. She can transport 60 armored battle tanks including Leclerc MBT. She doesn't have a lot of weapons and they are soft, it's not the purpose of the ship.

She can use 16 helicopters in addition to it's transport capacities, 8 NH-90 and 8 Eurocopter Tiger.

In comparison with the Charles de Gaulle
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/tcd/mistral/caract08.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/tcd/mistral/index.htm
The Mistral
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/tcd/mistral/photo08.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/tcd/mistral/photo07.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/tcd/mistral/photo10.jpg

The Tonerre
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/tcd/tonnerre/photo01.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/tcd/tonnerre/photo06.jpg

Geroplatanos

June 8th, 2005, 03:02 PM

the fact that the russian ukrainian polish armies dont have new equipment does not have any impact on their military capabilities. After all either f 16 or tgv train were made in the 70- ties and so far nothing better has been made. The rank is of course your private opinion and made me fun :)

dear Chopinhower you are right in your comment about F-16 or the armies but the thread is about warships and submarines and there are few ships of the 70s that are considered modern in our days.
Anyway i did not exclude in purpose Russia and Ucraine , the presentation was just NATO oriented thats all .
Russia although it has lost much of its power during the last 15 years still remains a nuclear superpower so it can not play equally in this thread.
In another thread about world navies we could put in the first place USA , Russia , etc.
As about Ucraine if you would like we could put it in the 4th category (according to the criteria i mentioned in my first post)

:)

Geroplatanos

June 8th, 2005, 03:05 PM

Exarchus ! Thanks for posting this amazing info and photos! :)
"Charles de Gaulle" is impressive!!! :eek2:

Geroplatanos

June 8th, 2005, 03:15 PM

Exarchus , a question for you (if you know) , what is the main anti-missile system used in the french navy?
( i mean something in the category of Plalanx or RAM)

Ringil

June 8th, 2005, 03:21 PM

http://www.pcqt.se/images/pcqt_HMS-Visby.jpg

The Visby Class corvette is the first vessel in the world to have fully developed stealth technology, combined with high operational versatility. The outstanding stealth properties fundamentally change the ship's survivability and improve its mission effectiveness.

Visby is a flexible surface combatant, designed for a wide range of roles: anti-surface warfare (ASuW), anti-submarine warfare (ASW), mine countermeasures (MCM), patrol and much more.

The stealth programme
In 1986 the Swedish Defence Material Administration (FMV) initiated the development of a stealth test platform, HMS Smyge. It was launched in 1991 and used for testing stealth characteristics in all possible aspects. This formed the basis for the YS 2000 project - the Visby Class corvette.

Optimal stealth technology
The Visby is designed to minimize all signatures - optical and infrared signature, above water acoustic and hydroacoustic signature, underwater electrical potential and magnetic signature, pressure signature, radar cross section and actively emitted signals.

The stealth advantage zone
The difference in detection range between an ordinary vessel and Visby creates a considerable zone where the Visby can see but not be seen. The advantage zone.
http://www.kockums.se/surfacevessels/Resources/visbymonster.jpeg

Combat management
All missions are supported by CETRIS - the real-time command, control, communication, intelligence and interoperability system (C4I2). The system is modular and open, and allows for integration of future technologies, without expensive changes.
http://www.kockums.se/surfacevessels/Resources/visby-raket.jpeg
Anti-surface warfare
The Visby is designed for the installation of a surface-to-surface missile (SSM) system. On the Swedish version, eight SSM (RBS15 MkII) can be fully integrated into the hull and covered with smart rapid
http://www.kockums.se/surfacevessels/Resources/illrcs-return-vi.jpeg

http://www.kockums.se/surfacevessels/Resources/illarcherdiagr.gif
Air defence system
The air defence system (ADS) is totally integrated, and it dynamically, automatically and simultaneously calculates and performs hard-kill as well as soft-kill engagements.

The active part of the ADS consists of the Bofors 57 mm multi-purpose gun, with a new, stealth cupola designed as an integrated part of the hull structure.

The Visby is designed for the installation of an air defence missile system (SAM), fully integrated into the aft part of the vessel.

The ADS also includes the ESM and various electronic countermeasures.

Hull design - attention to every detail
The hull is designed on stealth principles with large flat angled surfaces. Every feature that need not necessarily be located outside the hull has been built in or concealed under specially designed hatches. The gas turbine exhausts have been concealed in hidden outlets close to the water surface at the stern of the vessel.

The vessel is built of sandwich-construction carbon fibre reinforced plastic (CFRP). The material provides high strength and rigidity, low weight, good shock resistance, low radar signature and low magnetic signature.

The material dramatically reduces the structural weight (typically 50% of a conventional steel hull). This results in a higher payload carrying capability, higher speed or longer range.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/images/visby-Levkontroll_DK_020305_0016.jpg

Matthieu

June 8th, 2005, 03:26 PM

Exarchus , a question for you (if you know) , what is the main anti-missile system used in the french navy?
( i mean something in the category of Plalanx or RAM)

Well, hard to tell as we have both old ships and new ships. The modern ones and future ones will be using Asters mostly it seems. As the next Horizon fregate will have those, the CdG have those, the La Fayette fregate have those.

Geroplatanos

June 8th, 2005, 03:40 PM

Ringil thanks for the info! :)
I like the design of the Visby class corvettes , its one of the newest stealth type of ships.
Perhaps you could give me some more info:
1) what is the displacement of the ship
2) what kind of SAM missile system are they going to use (since the size of the ship seems to me small for systems like MK41 VLS)
3) how many of them the swedish navy has ordered and when they are going to be delivered?
I would like to see in the future a similar design but in the size of a frigate!! that would be great!

Matthieu

June 8th, 2005, 03:42 PM

The La Fayette Class

Category: Frigate

5 Units:
F710 La Fayette
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/flf/lafayet/blason01.jpg
F711 Surcouf
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/flf/surcouf/blason01.jpg
F712 Courbet
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/flf/courbet/blason01.jpg
F713 Aconit
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/flf/aconit/blason01.jpg
F714 Guépratte
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/flf/gueprat/blason01.jpg

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/lafayette/

LA FAYETTE CLASS FRIGATES, FRANCE

The French Navy's La Fayette class multipurpose stealth frigates have been developed by DCN International and built at the DCN Lorient Naval Dockyard. The French Navy awarded DCN the contracts to construct the La Fayette (F710), Surcoef (F711) and Courbet (F712) frigates in 1988, and Aconit (F713) and Guepratte (F714) in 1992. The lead ship, La Fayette, was commissioned in 1996 and the last, Guepratte, was commissioned in November 2001. DCN have also built an anti-submarine warfare version for Taiwan (Kang Ding) and an anti-air version for Saudi Arabia (F3000S) under the Sawari II programme. All three have been launched and the first, Al Riyadh, was commissioned in July 2002. Singapore has ordered six Project Delta stealth frigates, also based on the La Fayette, to enter service by 2009. The first, RSS Formidable, built in France, was launched in January 2004. The other five ships - Intrepid, Steadfast, Tenacious, Stalwart and Supreme - are being built by Singapore Technologies Marine. Intrepid was launched in July 2004.

The La Fayette class incorporates a number of stealth features - the sides of the vessel are sloped at 10° to minimise radar cross section, surfaces have been coated in radar-absorbent paint and the profiles of external features have been reduced.

COMMAND AND CONTROL

The combat data system is the Thales (formerly Thomson-CSF) TAVITAC 2000 system and the OPSMER command support system is also fitted.

The main gun fire control system is DCN's CTM system which is supported by the Castor radar, an infrared tracking system and laser rangefinder. SAGEM's TDS 90 optronic target designation sight is also fitted.

MISSILES

The ship's surface-to-surface missile is the Exocet MM40 from MBDA (formerly EADS Aerospatiale). Two four-cell launchers are installed in a midship position between the two masts. The anti-ship missile has a range of 70km and approaches the target in sea skimming mode at high subsonic speed, approximately 0.95 Mach. The 165kg shaped charge warhead has time delayed impact proximity fuses.

The French Navy has awarded MBDA a contract for the Exocet MM40 Block 3 missile to be deployed on vessels from 2006. The Block 3 missile will have a new turbojet propulsion system which will give a range extended to 180km.

The ship's surface-to-air missile system is the Thales Crotale Naval CN2. The system employs the VT-1 missile with a range of 13km and speed of Mach 3.6. The guidance is by command line of sight with radar and infra-red homing. 24 missiles are carried. The frigates may be upgraded with the vertical launch system (VLS) and Aster 15 missile from Eurosam and associated Thales Arabel fire control radar. Sixteen missiles will be carried.

GUNS

The ship's main gun on the bow deck is the DCN 100mm which fires a 13.5kg shell to a range of 16 km. The gun has a firing rate of 80 rounds/min. Two 20mm Model 20F2 guns from Giat are installed with a firing rate of 720 rounds/min to a range of 10km.

HELICOPTERS

The frigate has a flight deck at the stern with a single landing spot, for use by 10t helicopters such as AS 565 MA Panther, SA 321G Super Frelon or NH 90. The flight deck can be used up to Sea State 6.

COUNTERMEASURES

The Thales ARBR 21 (DR 3000S) radar warning receiver, operating in D to K bands, is mounted at the top of the main mast. A Thales ARBB33 jammer operates at H, I and J bands.

Two EADS Matra Systèmes & Information Dagaie chaff and flare launching systems are installed on the gun deck aft of the bridge.

SENSORS

The Sea Tiger Mark 2 air and surface search radar from Thales is mounted on the top of the second platform mast. Sea Tiger operates at E and F bands and the range is over 100km. The Thales Castor 2J, operating at J band, is a fire control radar with a range of over 15km. The Crotale fire control radar operates at J band. Two Model 1229 navigation and helicopter control radars from Thales Defence operate at I band.

PROPULSION

The propulsion system is a combined diesel and diesel (CODAD) arrangement. The system is based on four SEMT Pielstick 12 PA6 V 280 STC diesel engines, rated at 21,000hp. Two shafts drive controllable pitch propellers. The ship is fitted with a bow thruster. The propulsion system provides a maximum speed of 25 and, at an economical speed of 12 knots, the range is 9,000 nautical miles.

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/lafayette/images/lafayette1.jpg

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/lafayette/images/lafayette10.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/flf/lafayet/index.htm

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/flf/lafayet/caract01.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/flf/lafayet/photo19.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/flf/lafayet/photo20.jpg

Geroplatanos

June 8th, 2005, 04:01 PM

Exarchus this is one the most beautiful frigates i have ever seen!
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/flf/lafayet/photo19.jpg

Bravo La fayette! :cheers:

Humanity has won its battle.
Liberty now has a country.
Lafayette 1757 - 1834

Ringil

June 8th, 2005, 06:06 PM

Ringil thanks for the info!
I like the design of the Visby class corvettes , its one of the newest stealth type of ships.
Perhaps you could give me some more info:
1) what is the displacement of the ship
2) what kind of SAM missile system are they going to use (since the size of the ship seems to me small for systems like MK41 VLS)
3) how many of them the swedish navy has ordered and when they are going to be delivered?
I would like to see in the future a similar design but in the size of a frigate!! that would be great!

The royal swedish navy have ordered 6 of them, the first one (HMS Visby)was delivered in 2002/2003 or something.
HMS Visby-delivered
HMS Helsingborg-delivered
HMS Härnösand-delivered
HMS Nyköping
HMS Karlstad
HMS Uddevalla
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=67081

1)The Visby class corvette is 72 meter "long" and the displacement is only 650 tons!

2) we only use swedish stuff ;) i think. The Visby class got Saab Anti-Ship Missile RBS15.

The missiles will be installed below deck (indoors) in order to maintain
the vessels unique stealth characteristics. The missiles will be fired
through specially designed hatches and the exhaust plumes will be
managed in separate canals. Deliveries will start in 2005

The integration of the Saab RBS 15 on the Visby class corvettes is
unique. This is the first time a heavy anti-ship missile system has been
integrated on a proper 'stealth' vessel," says Gunnar Språng, business
unit manager of Air and Sea Missile Systems, Saab Bofors Dynamics.

Petronius

June 8th, 2005, 06:26 PM

Portuguese Submarines:

N.R.P. DELFIM

http://www.marinha.pt/Marinha/PT/Menu/DescobrirMarinha/MeiosOperacionais/SubSuperficie/Submarinos/nrp_delfim.htm

-3 Class Daphné

-built in France
-operational since 1968

http://www.marinha.pt/NR/rdonlyres/A5DF8D5C-336D-48FF-918B-C8837C2862B3/0/delfim_img3.jpg

http://www.marinha.pt/NR/rdonlyres/98295BAB-EAD0-4C16-83D4-88DC622CDAA5/0/delfim_img4.jpg

Features:

Weight: 1042t
Length 57,8m
Maximum Speed 13,2nós
Boca 6,8m
Calado 5,2m

Staff:
Oficiais 7
Sargentos 17
Praças 32

-2 New Submarines

type: 209 PN

(no pictures available)

Petronius

June 8th, 2005, 06:35 PM

Portuguese Frigates:

1-Classe Vasco da Gama:(3 units)

N.R.P. Vasco da Gama

http://www.marinha.pt/NR/rdonlyres/216C604D-3E6B-4BB5-9CD7-558D11188AF1/0/vgama_img2.jpg

http://www.marinha.pt/NR/rdonlyres/FAA44713-0711-4DE0-80B7-6290C42EB2EF/0/vgama_img1.jpg

http://www.marinha.pt/NR/rdonlyres/C0706692-6D6C-4B6E-9982-2E511EFC2110/298/brasao_vg.jpg

Características

Deslocamento 3200t
Comprimento 115.9m
Boca máxima 14,2m
Calado 6.2m
Velocidade Máxima:
Motores Diesel 20nós
Turbinas a Gás 32nós

Propulsão
2 Motores Diesel MTU 8.840hp
2 Turbinas a Gás GELM 53.000hp
Armamento/Equipamento
Peça de artilharia de 100mm
Peça de artilharia de 20mm
2x4 mísseis NATO SEA SPARROW (curto alcance de defesa anti-aérea)
2x4 mísseis HARPOON (longo alcance)
2x3 reparos de tubos lança torpedos MK46
Radar de médio alcance - DA08
Radar de curto alcance - MW08
Radar de controlo de tiro - STIR
Sistema de guerra electrónica - APECS II
Helicóptero Lynx Mk95
Sistema de defesa anti-míssil (CIWS VULCAN-PHALANX)
Antena InmarsatB - Comunicações Satélite
Radar de vigilância longo alcance - DA08
Sistema de contramedidas anti-míssil - SRBOC
Sonar de médio alcance - AN/SQS 510

Guarnição/Staff
Oficiais 19
Sargentos 40
Praças 102
Destacamento do Helicóptero 13
Equipa de Abordagem 6
Total 180

Petronius

June 8th, 2005, 06:41 PM

PORTUGUESE CORVETES

Class Baptista de Andrade ( 3 units)

http://www.marinha.pt/NR/rdonlyres/8040697A-703C-445B-9B6B-742CD1C92AA5/0/NRPBaptistadeAndrade1624.jpg

Características
Deslocamento 1380t
Comprimento 85m
Boca máxima 10,3m
Calado 3,3m
Pontal 6,20m
Altura do mastro 22m
Velocidade Máximo 22nós
Propulsão
2 Motores OEW Pielstick 12 Pc2.2 V 400 Diesel 12.000hp

Armamento e sensores
1 peça de 100mm Creusot-Loire
2 peças Boffors de 40mm/70
1 radar de navegação KH5000 Nucleus
1 radar de navegação Racal Decca RM 316P

Guarnição
Oficiais 7
Sargentos 14
Praças 51

Matthieu

June 8th, 2005, 06:42 PM

Triomphant Class

Category: Tactical submarines

4 units (3 operational, 1 ordered to replace the last Redoutable class submarine).
S616 Le Triomphant
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/triompha/blason01.jpg
S617 Le Téméraire
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/temerair/blason01.jpg
S618 Le Vigilant
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/vigilant/blason01.jpg
S619 Le Terrible (2008)

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/triomphant/

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/triompha/shema01.jpg

SSBN TRIOMPHANT CLASS BALLISTIC MISSILE SUBMARINES, FRANCE

Le Triomphant (S616) is the French Navy’s ballistic missile nuclear-powered submarine (SSBN), intended to replace the L'Inflexible M4 class SSBNs. The submarine was designed and built at DCN's Cherbourg shipyard. This first-of-class submarine was launched in July 1993 and entered service in 1997. The second, Le Temeraire (S617), entered service in January 2000. The third, Le Vigilant (S618), was launched in April 2003 and commissioned in November 2004. A fourth, Le Terrible, is planned to commission in 2010.

MISSILES

The submarine carries 16 vertically launched M45 ballistic missiles supplied by EADS Space Transportation (formerly Aerospatiale), based in Les Mureaux, France. The M45 propulsion system has three-stage solid fuel rocket motors producing hypersonic speed. The inertial control and guidance system is equipped with a Sagittaire digital computer supplied by Thales (formerly Thomson-CSF). The missile carries a thermonuclear warhead, developed by the Commissariat a l'Energie Atomique, with six Multiple Re-entry Vehicles (MRVs), each of 150kt, in the TN-71 warhead. The range is 6,000km. The new enhanced M51 missile, due to enter service in 2010, weighs more than 50t and will carry a warhead with 12 MIRVS, and have an increased range of 8,000km. The submarine is equipped with a SAD strategic data system for control of the M45 ballistic missile.

EADS Space Transportation received a production contract for the new enhanced M51 missile in December 2004. The M51 is due to enter service from 2010 on Le Terrible and then be retrofitted to the other vessels of the class. The missile weighs more than 50t, carries a warhead with 12 MIRVS and has an increased range of 8,000km. Sagem will provide the new navigation and guidance system, which will contribute to the first hit accuracy of the M51.

The submarine's surface-to-surface missile is the Exocet SM39 supplied by MBDA (formerly EADS Aerospatiale). Target range and bearing data is downloaded from the submarine's SAT tactical data system and the DLA 4A weapon control system into the Exocet's computer. The SM39 in a launch capsule is launched from the submarine's torpedo tubes using a gas generator. The launch capsule is propelled away from the submarine and clear of the surface of the sea by a solid propellant motor. The missile separates from the capsule and the boost motor is ignited. The missile approaches the target area in sea-skimming mode using inertial navigation and then active radar homing. The missile approaches the target at speeds over Mach 0.9 and the range is 50km. The Exocet's 165kg high-explosive shaped charge warhead is armed with a delayed impact fuse and a proximity fuse.

TORPEDOES

The submarine has four 533mm torpedo tubes and has the capacity to carry a mixed load of 18 ECAN L5 Mod 3 torpedoes and Exocet missiles. The torpedo, armed with a 150kg warhead, is equipped with both active and passive homing. The range is over 9km and the speed 35 knots

ELECTRONIC WARFARE

The DR 3000U electronic support system is supplied by Thales, based in Malakoff, France. DR 3000U is a radar warning receiver (French Navy designation ARUR-13) operating in D to K bands. The system uses a masthead antenna array with omnidirectional and monopulse directional antennas and a separate periscope warning antenna. The system provides direction-finding with an accuracy greater than 1°.

SENSORS

The submarine is fitted with the Thales Underwater Systems (formerly Thomson Marconi Sonar) DMUX 80 bow and flank array sonar suite. The DMUX 80 provides passive target ranging and interception capability. The submarine's low-frequency towed array sonar provides very long-range capability.

The submarine's search radar, supplied by Thales, operates at I-band.

PROPULSION

The submarine's propulsion system is a nuclear turbo-electric system based on a Type K15 Pressure Water Reactor (PWR) supplying 150MW. The auxiliary propulsion system is diesel electric, with two SEMT-Pielstick 8 PA 4 v 200 SM diesels.

Le Triomphant has a submerged speed in excess of 25 knots and a surface speed of 20 knots. The diving depth is more than 300m. The endurance of the submarine is over 60 days.

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/triompha/index.htm

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/triompha/photo04.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/triompha/photo03.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/temerair/photo02.jpg

Lindemann

June 8th, 2005, 06:52 PM

Spain's "Alvaro de Bazan" Class. They are the first European ships to be fitted with the Aegis Weapon System.
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/f100/images/F100_11.jpg
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/f100/images/F100_14.jpg

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/f100/index.html#f1008

Matthieu

June 8th, 2005, 07:00 PM

Not yet built, but soon to be here.

Horizon Class

Category:Frigate

2 units ordered, 2 more required (Italy also ordered two of those, it's a joint project). The first 2 will replace the Suffren Class (1 of those is already decomissioned) and the last 2 will replace Cassard class.
D620 Forbin
D621 Chevalier Paul

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/horizon2/

HORIZON CLASS ANTI-AIR WARFARE FRIGATES, FRANCE/ITALY

Italy and France each ordered two Horizon class anti-air warfare (AAW) frigates in October 2000. The frigates are being built by Horizon SAS, a joint venture between Armaris (Thales and DCN) of France and Orrizonte Sistemi Navali (Fincantieri and Finmeccanica) of Italy.

The first French vessel, Forbin, began construction in April 2002 and was launched in March 2005 for delivery at the end of 2006. The second, Chevalier Paul, started construction in December 2003 with delivery set for 2008. The first Italian vessel, Bergamini, started building in July 2002 for launch in summer 2005 and delivery in mid-2007. The second began building in September 2003 for delivery in early 2009. The French frigates will replace the Suffren and Duquesnes frigates, while the Italian vessels will replace the Audace and Ardito.

The original Horizon project was a three-nation initiative including Italy, France and the UK to build a new design of air defence ship. The UK government withdrew from the program in 1999. France and Italy signed a new Memorandum of Understanding in September 2000 confirming the joint development of the Horizon.

The main requirement for the frigates is to escort and protect task forces or merchant shipping. The main missions of the Horizon frigate are to provide local area or extended cover against saturation missile attacks and to escort and protect carrier groups. The ship also has powerful anti-submarine and anti-air self defence.

The ship is configured for rapid deployment and extended range and endurance and can carry sufficient fuel, water and stores for an endurance of 45 days at sea between replenishments. The ship can attain a speed of 29 knots and, at a cruising speed of 18 knots, has a range of over 7,000nm.

COMMAND AND CONTROL

The command and control system is being developed by Eurosysnav, a joint venture company set up by Armaris and Finmeccanica, and will be based on the Senit 8 combat data system. Alenia Marconi Systems (AMS) is supplying the Data Transfer System (DTS).

NICCO Communications SAS, a joint venture between Thales Communications and Marconi Mobile SpA, is developing the fully integrated communications system. The communications suite will include two Link 11 and one Link 16 high capacity digital information distribution systems. Alenia Marconi Systems and Sagem are supplying the integrated navigation system.

The Alenia Marconi Systems NA 25 will provide fire control for 76mm guns. The ships will also be equipped with the SAGEM Vampire MB infrared search and track system (IRST), which operates in both 3-5 and 8-12 micron wavebands.

FRIGATE MISSILES

Horizon frigates will be armed with the PAAMS Principal Anti-Air Missile System. PAAMS is a tri-national programme involving France, Italy and the UK. The contract for series production was placed in November 2003. The prime contractor is Europaams SAS, a joint venture company two thirds owned by Eurosam (MBDA and Thales) and one third by the UKAMS subsidiary of MBDA. The system is also being fitted on UK Royal Navy Type 45 frigates.

The DCN Sylver A50 vertical launch system within PAAMS, installed immediately forward of the two guns towards the bow deck, has 48 cells for both the Aster 15 and Aster 30 missiles. The Sylver launcher ensures that each round is aligned to within 1mrad. The maximum rate of fire is up to six rounds per second. The Aster missile carries an inertial computer with datalink and an active J-band Doppler radar seeker. Aster 30 has a range of 100km, Aster 15 a range of 30km. The missile has manoeuvrability of up to 62g, achieved through the use of the PIF/PAF guidance system.

The Italian frigates will be fitted with two quadruple launchers for the MBDA Teseo (Otomat) Mark 3 surface-to-surface missile, which has a range of up to 55km. The quadruple launchers are installed aiming one to port and one to starboard on the missile deck between the ship's two masts. The missile uses command updated inertial guidance and reaches high subsonic speed, 0.9 Mach.

FRIGATE GUNS

The three Oto Melara 76mm/62 Super Rapid guns are installed as a pair on the foredeck immediately forward of the bridge and a single gun installed on the hangar overlooking the helicopter deck at the aft of the ship. Two Oto Melara Mod 503 25mm/80 guns are installed one to port and one to starboard.

FRIGATE TORPEDOES

The ship has two twin torpedo launchers for Eurotorp Mu 90 lightweight torpedoes. Eurotorp is a consortium formed by Whitehead Alenia Sistemi Subacquei (WASS), DCN and Thales. Mu 90 has a directed energy warhead and a range of 12,000m at maximum speed and 25,000m at minimum speed.

FRIGATE COUNTERMEASURES

The electronic warfare suite is being developed by the Sigen Consortium (Thales Systèmes Aéroportés SA of France and Elettronica SpA of Italy) and is characterised by the latest generation of radar ESM (electronic support measures) and ECM (electronic countermeasures) architectures and implementation of new digital and microwave technologies.

The radar ESM component will feature very high sensitivity, very high accuracy direction finding and broadband digital receivers. The radar ECM component is based on Phased Array Solid State Technology and will feature high specific transmitted power, fast reaction, multi-threats engagement capability and complete programmability of coherent and not coherent jamming techniques, due to the implementation of multiple broadband Digital Radio Frequency Memory (DRFM).

The French frigates will have EADS Systems and Defence Electronics New Generation Dagaie System (NGDS). Each system consists of a pair of two-axis launchers with 12 infrared, radar or acoustic decoys. Italian vessels will have Oto Melara/Alenia Marconi Systems SCLAR-H decoy launchers for chaff and infrared flares.

Horizon is equipped with a SLAT torpedo defence system which is also installed on the French and Italian aircraft carriers, the Charles de Gaulle and the Garibaldi. SLAT has been developed by EUROSLAT, a consortium consisting of WASS (Whitehead Alenia Sistemi Subaqua), DCN and Thales Underwater Systems.

HELICOPTERS

The helicopter deck at the bow of the ship has a single landing spot for a 10t helicopter, for example the NH 90 or EH101 Merlin helicopter. The stabilisation system allows the ship's helicopter to be deployed and the combat systems operated in high sea states.

FRIGATE SENSORS

The large round radome of the AMS EMPAR multi-function phased array radar (primary sensor for PAAMS) operating at G-band (4GHz to 6GHz) is mounted at the top of the forward mast. The AMS S1850M air and surface search radar, operating at D-band (1GHz to 2GHz) is mounted at the top of the aft mast.

The AMS RASS surface search radar, covering E and F- bands, (2GHz to 3GHz and 3GHz to 4GHz) is mounted on the forward face of the mast. The AMS SPN 753(V)4 navigation radar operates at I-band in the range 8GHz to 10GHz. Alenia Marconi Systems also provides the SIR-R/S interrogation friend or foe (IFF) system.

Thales Underwater Systems and WASS have been awarded the contract to supply the hull mounted TMS 4110CL sonar which operates at medium frequency in active search and attack mode. TMS 4110CL uses a cylindrical array and advanced processing.

PROPULSION

The ship's propulsion system is configured in a combined diesel or gas (CODOG) arrangement with two GE LM2500 gas turbines rated at 53MW and two SEMT Pielstick diesel engines rated at 8MW. The engines drive two shafts with constant pitch propellers.

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/fregates/forbin/index.htm

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/fregates/forbin/caract01.gif

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/fregates/forbin/photo11.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/fregates/forbin/photo02.jpg

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/horizon2/images/horizon_4.jpg

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/horizon2/images/horizon_3.jpg

ASIMOV

June 8th, 2005, 11:40 PM

Don't worry: We'll invade Greece from the mainland and leave you guys the islands (crums) so that you can still keep your navy :D

(Just kidding BTW)

ASIMOV

June 8th, 2005, 11:53 PM

http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav

Turkeys can swim :okay:

Frigates: 22 (Harpoon SSM, Sea Sparrow SAM, SM-1MR)
Corvettes: 6 (Exocet SSM)
Large Missile Ships: 23 (Harpoon SSM)
Submarines: 19 (Harpoon SSM)

Fallout

June 9th, 2005, 01:02 AM

The Polish Navy
Primary Forces
Guided Missile Frigate - OLIVER HAZARD PERRY class;
ASW Corvette ORP "Kaszub";
Missile Corvettes - TARANTUL class;
Small Missile Ships - ORKAN class;
Submarines:
KILO class;
KOBBEN class;
Fast Attack Craft Missile OSA 1 class;

Oliver Hazard Perry Class (2 Frigates)

ORP "Gen. K. Pulaski"
15rd of March 2000

ORP "Gen. T. Kosciuszko"
28rd of June 2002

Guided missile frigate. OLIVER HAZARD PERRY class. Built in Bath Iron Works Shipyard;.

Dimensions:

* Length: 445 feet;
* Beam: 45 feet;
* Draught: 25.75 feet;

Armament:

* 2 double tube Anti-Submarine Torpedo mounts;
* 1 76 mm Rapid Fire Dual Purpose Gun;
* 1 Vulcan Phalanx system;
* 1 Guided missile launching systems with Standard Surface-to-Air Missiles, Harpoon Surface-to-Surface Missiles;

Displacement: 3650 tons.

Propulsion: Two General Electric LM-2500 gas turbines, 40,000 total shaft horsepower, one controllable reversible pitch propeller, two 350 horsepower electric drive auxiliary propulsion units. Maximum speed 29 knots;

http://admin.mw.mil.pl/modules/foto.php?vhost=navy&id_md=908

Kaszub class (1 ASW corvette)

ORP "Kaszub"
15th of June 1987

ASW ship, 620 class (Kaszub class; NATO: BAL-COM-6); Built in Northern Shipyard, Gdańsk

Dimensions:

* Length: 82,3 meters;
* Beam: 10 meters;
* Drought: 3,1 meters;

Armament:

* 1 gun 76.2 mm
* 3 guns 23 mm
* 2 SAM launchers
* 2 A/S mortars
* 2 torpedo launcher
* chaff launchers

Displacement: 1183 tons;

Propulsion: 4 Cegielski - Sulzer AS 16V 25/30 diesels /16 900 hp each/, 2 shafts

http://admin.mw.mil.pl/modules/foto.php?vhost=navy&id_md=869

Tarantul class (4 missile corvettes)

ORP "Górnik"
28th of December 1983

ORP Hutnik"
31st of March 1984

ORP "Metalowiec"
13th of Febuary 1988

ORP "Rolnik"
4th of Febuary 1989

Fast Patrol Boats 1241 RE class (NATO: Tarantul I); built in Shipyard in Rybińsk (USSR)

Dimensions:

* Length: 56.9 meters
* Beam: 10.2 meters
* Draught: 3.59 meters

Armament:

* 1 gun 76.2 mm;
* 2 guns 30 mm;
* 2 twin SSM launchers;
* 1 SAM launcher;

Displacement: 496 tons;

Propulsion: 4 gas turbines; 2 shafts; speed: 43 knots.

http://admin.mw.mil.pl/modules/foto.php?vhost=navy&id_md=933

Orkan class (4 small missile ships)

ORP "Orkan"
18th of September 1992

ORP "Piorun"
11th of March 1994

ORP "Grom"
28th of April 1995

Fast Attack Craft Missile (Fast Patrol Boats), "Orkan" class (NATO: Sassnitz); The hulls have been built in VEB Peenewerft, Wolgast (former DDR); equipped in Northern Shipyard in Gdańsk.

Dimensions:

* Length: 48,9 meters
* Beam: 8,65 meters
* Draught: 2,15 meters

Armament:

* 1 gun 76,2 mm;
* 1 30 mm;
* 1 SAM launcher.

Propulsion: 3 compression-ignition engines M 520 class; 3 shafts; speed: 36 knots.

http://admin.mw.mil.pl/modules/foto.php?vhost=navy&id_md=913

Kilo class (1 submarine)

ORP "Orzeł"
29th of April 1986

Project: CKB MT "Rubin" in Leningrad, ZSRR (Currently in Sankt Petersburg, Russia) Russian cryptonym of project: Warszawianka, Granay project number: 877E
Built: Sudomech in Leningrad, ZSRR (Currently Shipyard of New Admiralty in Saint Petersburg ,Russia)
NATO code: Kilo.

Dimensions:

* Total length: 72,6 meters
* Beam: 9,9 meters
* Drought: 6,5 meters

Armament:

* 6 torpedo tubes 533.4 mm;

Displacement:

* Surface: 2460 tons
* Dived: 3180 tons

Speed:

* Surface: 12 knots
* Dived: 17 knots

Propulsion:

* 2 diesel engines 42DŁ42M class; 1 motor, PG 141 class; 1 shaft; economic speed motor.

http://admin.mw.mil.pl/modules/foto.php?vhost=navy&id_md=876

Kobben class (4 submarines)

ORP
"Sokół"
4th of June 2002

ORP
"Sęp"
16th of August 2002

ORP
"Bielik"
8th of September 2003

ORP
"Kondor"
20th of October 2004

The Kobben class submarines are able to operate all over the world. They are equipped with modern NATO command and communication and fire control systems. They are mainly used by German, Danish and South America`s navies.

The Kobben class submarines were built in Rheinstahl-Nordseewerke shipyard in Emden, Germany, in 1964 - 67. In 1990 - 1992 they were fully modernized and upfitted to the most recent NATO standards.

Dimensions:

* Length: 47,2 meters
* Beam: 4,7 meters
* Drought: 8,9 meters

Displacement:

* Surface: 430 tons
* Dived: 459 tons

Armament: 8 torpedo tubes 537 mm

Other data:

* Max surface speed: 12 knots
* Max dived speed: 18 knots

Tasks:

* Anti-surface warfare
* Anti-submarine warfare
* Reconnaissance
* Surface ships defense and protection
* Sea lanes of communication protection and defence
* Special forces transport

http://admin.mw.mil.pl/modules/foto.php?vhost=navy&id_md=1464

Osa class (2 fast attack missile boats)

ORP "Świnoujście"
13th of January 1973

ORP "Władysławowo"
13th of November 1975

Missile Ships (NATO: Osa I class) built in the USSR.

Dimensions:

* Length: 38,5 meters
* Beam: 7,6 meters
* Draught: 2,5 meters

Displacement: 220,5 tons.

Armament:

* 2 guns AK-230 (30 mm);
* 4 SSM launchers P-15U;
* 1 AAM launcher Strzała-2M;

Propulsion: 3 compression-ignition engines M503 class, 2940 kW each, 3 shafts; speed 40 knots.

Currently 2 boats of that class remian in service (out of 13).

http://admin.mw.mil.pl/modules/foto.php?vhost=navy&id_md=921

Petronius

June 9th, 2005, 02:10 AM

Portuguese Navy - Part II

Classe João Coutinho

4 ships

example: NRP João Coutinho (100% Portuguese design)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/PedroCid/Sanstitre.bmp

Características
Deslocamento 1380t
Comprimento 85m
Boca máxima 10,3m
Calado 3,3m
Velocidade Máximo 22nós
Autonomia 5900 milhas(18nós)
Propulsão
2 Motores OEW Pielstick 12 Pc2.2 V 400 Diesel 12.000hp
Armamento e sensores
1 reparo duplo de 76mm US Mk33
1 reparo duplo Bofors de 40mm/60
1 radar de navegação KH1007
1 radar de navegação RM 1226C
Guarnição
Oficiais 7
Sargentos 14
Praças 51

Classe CEntauro

4 ships

example: NRP Orion (100% Portuguese design)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/PedroCid/ORION_06.jpg

Características
Deslocamento 94t
Comprimento 27m
Boca máxima 5,9m
Calado 2,8m
Velocidade Máxima 26nós
Propulsão
2 Motores Cummins KTA-50-M2 3.600hp
Autonomia 1350 milhas a 15 nós
Armamento e sensores
2 metralhadoras 12.7mm MGs
1 radar de navegação Furuno 1505 DA
Guarnição
Oficiais 1
Sargentos 1
Praças 6

Henk

June 9th, 2005, 09:16 AM

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/dezeven/images/logo.gif

DE ZEVEN PROVINCIEN CLASS (LCF) AIR DEFENCE AND COMMAND FRIGATES, NETHERLANDS

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/dezeven/images/DeZeven_1.jpg-.jpg

Royal Schelde are building four De Zeven Provincien Class guided missile carrying fast frigates for the Royal Netherlands Navy. The Air Defence and Command (LCF) frigates are being built at Royal Schelde's Flushing shipyard. They are to replace Tromp class and Jacob van Heesmarck Class frigates.

The first frigate, Hr Ms De Zeven Provincien (F802), was commissioned in April 2002. Tromp (F803) was commissioned in March 2003. De Ruyter (F804) was launched in April 2002 and will commission in 2005 and the last, Evertsen (F805), will also commission in 2005.

In December 2003, Hr Ms De Zeven Provincien became the first vessel to successfully fire Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile (ESSM) and Standard Missile SM2-MR Block IIIA using interrupted and continuous wave illumination and X-band uplinks. Both missiles were controlled by the APAR radar.

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/dezeven/images/DeZeven_2.jpg-.jpg

TRILATERAL FRIGATE AGREEMENT
The Netherlands, Germany and Spain set up the Trilateral Frigate Agreement for the national construction of frigates. In addition to the De Zeven Provincien, the F100 (Alvaro de Bazan) is being built in Spain by Izar and the F124 (Sachsen) is being built in Germany by ARGE F124 (Blohme and Voss, HDW and Thyssen Nordseewerke). The co-operation extends to the ship platform and not to the systems.

STEALTH ORIENTATED FRIGATE DESIGN
The design of the ship incorporates stealth features with emphasis on reduction of radar cross section, infrared, acoustic, electrical and magnetic signatures. Watertight compartments, insulation, redundancy of vital systems, power distribution, and routing, blast and fragmentation retaining structures provide a very high level of survivability against missile attack and fire hazards. For nuclear chemical and biological warfare protection the ship is subdivided into two gas citadels and a sub citadel.

SEWACO XI COMBAT DATA COMMAND SYSTEM
The ship is equipped with the SEWACO XI combat data system developed by Thales Naval Nederland. The RNIN's Centre for the Automation of Weapon and Command Systems (CAWCS) has developed the software. The system will use asynchronous transfer mode (ATM) network architecture.

The Rohde & Schwarz communications suite includes secure voice and data satellite communications, Link 11 and Link 16.

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/dezeven/images/DeZeven_3.jpg-.jpg

ESSM AND SM2-MR BLOCK IIIA SURFACE TO AIR MISSILE SYSTEMS
The long-range surface-to-air missile system is the Evolved Sea Sparrow missile (ESSM) developed by an international team led by Raytheon Missile Systems which has semi-active radar guidance with tail control motor to improve range, speed and manoeuvrability.

The ship's medium range anti-air missile is the Raytheon Standard Missile SM2-MR Block IIIA. SM-2MR has a range of 70km, a speed of Mach 2.5 and has semi-active radar seeker and an Aegis radio command link.

Both ESSM and SM2 are fired from a 40-cell Mk 41 Vertical Launch System (VLS). The five octuple launchers are installed with the caps almost flush with the surface of the bow deck behind the main gun.

The Boeing Harpoon surface-to-surface missile system is installed on the raised deck immediately behind the main mast. Harpoon is a medium-range missile with a range of 120km, a 220kg warhead and active radar terminal guidance.

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/dezeven/images/DeZeven_4.jpg-.jpg
The Evolved SeaSparrow Missile (ESSM) has a new rocket motor and tail control to provide increased speed, range and manoeuvrability.

DE ZEVEN PROVINCIEN CLASS FRIGATE GUNNERY SYSTEMS
The ship's main gun on the bow deck is a 127mm/54 calibre Oto Melara gun. Two Thales Naval Nederland Goalkeeper close-in weapon systems are installed, one on the raised deck in front of the main mast and one facing the stern on the raised deck overlooking the helicopter landing deck. Goalkeeper's Gatling principle 30mm gun provides a maximum firing rate of 4,200 rounds per minute with a range of 1,500m.

Two close-in Oerlikon 20mm machine guns are installed, one to port and one to starboard of the main mast.

TWIN MK32 MOD 9 323MM TORPEDO LAUNCHERS
Two Mk 32 Mod 9 323mm twin torpedo launchers are fitted one on each side of the ship at about two thirds the length of the ship from the bow. 24 Mark 46 Mod 5 torpedoes are stored in the ship's magazine.

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/dezeven/images/DeZeven_8.jpg.jpg
The Harpoon surface-to-surface missile system.

DE ZEVEN PROVINCIEN CLASS FRIGATE COUNTERMEASURE SYSTEMS
The frigates are fitted with the Thales Defence Sabre integrated electronic warfare system which includes a 0.5GHz to 18GHz electronic support measures (ESM) system and a 7.5GHz to 18GHz active phased-array electronic countermeasures (ECM) system. The ship has four launchers for the SRBOC (Super Rapid Blooming Offboard Countermeasures) decoy system from Sippican Hycor. The towed torpedo decoy is the Sensytech AN/SLQ-25 Nixie.

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/dezeven/images/DeZeven_9.jpg-.jpg
The Scout low probability of intercept radar provides surface search.

RAST SYSTEM EQUIPPED FLIGHT DECK
The 27m flight deck at the stern of the ship has a landing grid equipped with a RAST system. The hangar can accommodate a single helicopter such as the AgustaWestland Lynx which is currently in service with the Royal Netherlands Navy, or the 10t NH 90 naval helicopter which will be in service after 2007. The ship's helicopter direction system is the VESTA.

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/dezeven/images/DeZeven_10.jpg-.jpg

THALES NAVAL NEDERLAND SENSOR SYSTEMS
The ship's radar suite is supplied by Thales Naval Nederland. The Smart-L three dimensional radar operating in D band provides air search. APAR (Active Phased Array Radar) provides air and surface search and weapon fire control. APAR is a multi-function radar operating at X-band. It provides target search and tracking and guidance for the Standard Missile 2. The Scout LPI (Low Probability of Intercept) radar operating at I band provides surface search. There is also a Mark XII Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) radar.
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/dezeven/images/DeZeven_6.jpg-.jpg
Thales Naval Nederland Sirius LR-IRST long-range dual-band infrared search and track system will be installed on top of the mast tower. The system will provide horizon search capability against sea-skimming missiles. A Thales Mirador electro-optic surface surveillance system is also fitted.

The ship's sonar system is the Atlas Elektronik DSQS-24C hull-mounted search and attack sonar.

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/dezeven/images/DeZeven_7.jpg-.jpg
The Mirador electro-optic surveillance, tracking and fire control system

CODOG PROPULSION SYSTEM AND ENGINES
The ship's combined diesel or gas (CODOG) propulsion system has two independent propulsion lines. The two Rolls Royce Spey SM1C gas turbine engines each provide 18.5MW. Two cruise diesel engines, Stork-Wartsila 16V6ST, provide 8.4MW.

The two gearboxes are installed in a separate transmission room. The ship has two controllable pitch propellers and two rudders with rudder roll stabilisation.

The maximum ship speed is 30 knots and the cruise speed is 18 knots. The range is 5,000 miles at 18 knots.

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/dezeven/images/DeZeven_5.jpg-.jpg

Crownsteler

June 9th, 2005, 09:43 AM

http://www.flag.de/FOTW/images/n/nl-jack.gif
The Dutch Navy:
Frigates:
3x Zeven Provinciën Class (+1 under construction)
8x Karel Doorman Class
1x Jacob van Heemskerck Class (to be decommisioned and sold to Chilli when the last Zeven Provinciën Class is commisioned)
0x New Corvett (3-4 planned, to replace 2 Karel Doorman Class Frigates)

Submarines:
4x Walrus Class

Amphibious Ships:
1x Rotterdam Class LPD
0x Johan de Witt LPD (+1 under construction)

Auxiliaries:
1x Amsterdam Class AOR
1x Zuiderkruis Class AOR
0x New AOR program (1 planned, option for a second, will also be able to serve as an LPD)
(+ quite a few other auxiliaries)

The Pride of the Dutch Navy:

De Zeven Provinciën Class
http://www.scheldeshipbuilding.com/pics/lcf_c.gif
http://www.marine.nl/images/LCF%20vogel_tcm10-4298.jpg

'LCF' (Luchtverdedigings en Commando Fregat), and ‘NLF’ (Nieuw Luchtverdedigings Fregat):
The Dutch LCFs are being build as a replacement for the elderly Tromp-class guided missile frigates of the Royal Netherlands Navy, and (in the guise of NLF) as replacements for the last four ‘Standard’ frigates. The NLF is equal in capabilities and appearance to the LCF, exept for the lack of dedicated Command facilities.

These ships are being build as part of a tri-partite building program between the Spanish Armada, the German Marine, and the Dutch Royal Navy. Instead of the failed Horizon program which involved Italy, France, and Great Brittain, this program concentrates upon the Ship Platform and systems, rather than on combat systems and weaponry. The other ships being developed in this program are the Spanish F-100, with SPY-1 and Aegis combat system, and the German F124, wich also has the APAR and SEWACO combat system.

The name of "Frigate" for these ships is actually a misnomer: With a displacement of over 6,000 tons they are destroyers in all but name. When the first of the class enters service, it will arguably be the most advanced ship in this size in the world. The Royal Netherlands Navy has apparently sacrificed upgrades to some of its existing warships in order to provide some of the needed funds for this class of four ships.

In keeping with the general trend, the ships have extensive Stealth features designed into them. Their large slightly angled slab sides give them a bit of the look of the French Lafayette frigates, although the LCF design is considerably bigger and capable. Survivability has been a great concern in designing the ships, and they are subdivided into seven main compartments. When hit in one of these compartments ventilation, firecontrol systems, and power will still be available in the other compartments. In order to achieve this all neccesary systems have full-sized backups.

At first it appeared that the main engines for the ships would be the new Rolls Royce WR-21, which will also be deployed on the Royal Navy`s Type 45 Destroyers. Unfortunately the WR-21 was not available in time (apparently it won`t be available until 2007), so for now the main engines will be Rolls-Royce SM-1C 'Spey' gas turbines, which are a good design which unfortunately is getting on in years. However, when the ships were designed the engine room was designed with the WR-21 in mind, and there is room for these turbines. It is not unlikely that the ships will recieve the WR-21 later on in their operational lives, a move which would substantially increase fuel efficiency and raise engine power.
Secondary engines have always been two Wartsila diesel engines, and the engines drive two adjustable counterrotating propellors.

For sensors the design features the APAR system, which has been build and designed by the Netherlands, Germany, and Canada. This is a high powered Active Phased Array Radar, which is smaller, yet considerably more powerful, than the American SPY-1 phased array radar. It can track up to 250 targets at one time, and at the same time can function as a illumination radar for up to 16 targets (with 32 missiles in the air), removing the need for seperate illumination radars. Because of its relatively small design it was possible to locate the four APAR panels in a single structure high above sea level. In a move which cause some last-minute delays the Dutch decided to have the APAR mount redesigned, so that in the future the guidance equipment for Standard TBMD missiles can be fitted. The long range search radar is the SMART-L phased array 3D radar. This radar is not stabilized, but the emission-angle of the radar is adapted to the curent sea state and angle. It has a range of up to 400 km, and can track up to 1000 targets. Mounted above the APAR, at the very top of the ship is a Sirius long range dual band infra red seeker, with a maximum range of roughly 30 km. Mounted on the hull is a Atlas Electronik active sonar.

The first LCF, the 'De Zeven Provincien' was launched on saturday the 8th of April 2000, and is expected to be fully operational at the beginning of 2002. The keel for the 'Tromp' was laid on 3 september 1999, and this ship should be active in late 2003. The NLFs 'Tromp' and 'Evertsen' should be in active service in 2004 and 2005 respectively.

MISSIONS:

The ships are presented as the first line of naval defense against antiship missiles (diving, cruise, sea-skimming, supersonic) incoming at supersonic speed from any direction, highly manoeuvring, in all weather conditions and in a severe electronic warfare environment, as well as aircraft attacks.

The main tasks of these ships are to provide a local area air-defense capability against airborne targets for a task-group, and to provide that same taskgroup with dedicated command facilities.

The missions assigned to this class of frigates are:

Primary:
Anti-Air Warfare (to provide local area air defense of a task group against airborne targets, in particular against saturating anti-ship missile attacks).
To provide a Flagship function for a Taskforce or a Flottilla (This applies only to the LCFs, NOT the NLFs, which will lack command facilities).

Secondary:
Anti-Surface Warfare (to provide a significant fire power against surface targets (other ships) by surface-to-surface missiles and guns as well as the multi-function shipboard helicopter.
Anti-Submarine Warfare (to provide an anti-submarine defense by using a heavy ASW helicopter)
Naval Fire Support (to provide fire support for amphibious landings using the 127mm gun)

Ships in Service:
F802 Hr.Ms. De Zeven Provincien, active 2002
F803 Hr.Ms. Tromp, active 2003
F804 Hr.Ms. De Ruyter, active 2004
(F805 Hr.Ms. Evertsen, active 2005)

Crew:
accommodations for 202 total (Flag staff and 32 officers included)

Tonnage:
6,044 tons full load

Dimensions:
144.0 x 18.8 x 5.1 meters

Max Speed:
28.0 knots

Radar:
1x APAR (Active Phased Array Radar) multifunction 3D phased-array (target acquisition, illumination, and navigation).
1xSMART-L 3D long range volume search early warning (LRR).
Atlas-Werke hull mounted Sonar.

Armament:
1x OTO-Breda 127mm/54 'Compact' gun
2x 30mm Goalkeeper CIWS
2x 20mm Oerlikon guns
2x 324mm MK-32 Mod 9 ASW torpedo tubes (MK-46 Mod 5 torpedoes)
8x Boeing Harpoon
5x 8-cell MK-41 VLS for
32x Standard Missle-2 Block 3A medium/long range SAM and
32x Evolved Sea Sparrow Missle (Quadpacked) short/medium range SAM
(Option for 8 TLAMs, Tomahawks)

Air Group:
1x NH-90 multi-function helicopter with hangar (Room for two in hangar.).
Not available until 2007, until available one 'Lynx' Helicopter will be carried.

Cost:
about $450 million (less than half that of an American Arleigh Burke class destroyer)

Karel Doorman Class
http://www.scheldeshipbuilding.com/pics/f828_c.gif
Ships in Service
F827 Hr.Ms. Karel Doorman, 1991
F828 Hr.Ms. Van Speijk, 1995
F829 Hr.Ms. Willem Van Der Zaan, 1991
F830 Hr.Ms. Tjerk Hiddes, 1992
F831 Hr.Ms. Van Amstel, 1993
F832 Hr.Ms. Abraham Van Der Hulst, 1993
F833 Hr.Ms. Van Nes, 1994
F834 Hr.Ms. Van Galen, 1994

Crew:
154

Tonnage:
3,320 tons full load

Dimensions:
122.25 x 14.37 x 6.05 meters

Max Speed:
29.0 knots

Radar:
SMART 3-D air search
LW-08 2-D air search
PHS-36 hull, DSBV-61A towed sonar

Armament:
1x Oto Melara 76mm DP gun
1x 30mm Goalkeeper CIWS
2x 20mm Oerlikon guns
2x 324mm ASW torpedo tubes (MK-46 torpedoes)
8x Boeing Harpoon
16x VL Sea Sparrow Missle short/medium range SAM

Air Group:
1x NH-90 multi-function helicopter with hangar.
Not available until 2007, until available one 'Lynx' Helicopter will be carried.

Jacob Van Heemskerck Class
http://www.scheldeshipbuilding.com/pics/f812_c.gif
http://www.marine.nl/images/HMSK%204%20scherm_tcm10-4640.jpg
Ships in Service:
F813 Hr.Ms. Witte De With, 1986 (to be sold to Chilli when the last Zeven Provinciën Class is commisioned)

Crew:
197 (plus 20 flag)

Tonnage:
3,750 tons full load

Dimensions:
130.2 x 14.4 x 4.23 meters

Max Speed:
32.0 knots

Radar:
LW-08 2-D air search
SMART-3D air/surface search
SQS-509 hull mounted sonar

Armament:
1x 30mm Goalkeeper CIWS
2x 324mm ASW torpedo tubes (MK-46 torpedoes)
8x Boeing Harpoon
8x Sea Sparrow Missle short/medium range SAM
1x Standard Missle-1MR (40 missles)

Air Group:
None

New Corvett Program
http://www.scheldeshipbuilding.com/pics/Sigma.15.jpg
http://www.scheldeshipbuilding.com/pics/Sigma.16.jpg
Will possibly look like one of the above

Ships in Service:
(3-4 planned)

Characteristics unknown

Walrus Class
http://www.marine.nl/images/OZBT-020605-3STUKS-199_tcm10-13440.jpg

Ships in Service:
S802 Hr.Ms. Walrus, 1992 (delayed due to a fire during construction)
S803 Hr.Ms. Zeeleeuw, 1990
S808 Hr.Ms. Dolfijn, 1993
S810 Hr.Ms. Bruinvis, 1994

Crew:
50

Tonnage:
2,800 tons submerged

Dimensions:
67.73 x 8.4 x 7 meters

Propulsion:
Diesel Electric

Max Speed:
21.0 knots

Radar:
TSM 2272 active/passve sonar
Type 2026 linear array sonar

Armament:
4x 21 inch torpedo tubes (20 Mk 48 or NT-37 torpedoes, mines, Harpoon SSM)

Air Group:
none (obviously :P)

Rotterdam Class
http://www.scheldeshipbuilding.com/pics/l800_c.gif
http://www.scheldeshipbuilding.com/pics/l800_b.jpg
Ships in Service:
L800 Hr.Ms. Rotterdam, 1998

Crew:
113-127

Tonnage:
12,000 tons full load

Dimensions:
160 x 25 x 5.9 meters

Max Speed:
20 knots

Radar:
DA-08 air/surface search

Armament:
2x 30mm Goalkeeper CIWS
2x 20mm Oerlikon guns

Air Group:
4 EH-101 or
6 NH-90 helicopters

Well Deck:
4 LCU or
6 LCVP

Troops:
600

Cargo:
170 APC or
30 tanks

Johan de Witt Class
http://www.scheldeshipbuilding.com/pics/lpd2.jpg
http://www.scheldeshipbuilding.com/pics/lpd.jpg
Ships in Service:
(L801 Hr.Ms. Johan de Witt, 2007)

Crew:
146

Tonnage:
16,680 tons full load

Dimensions:
176.35 oa x 29.20 x 5.55

Max Speed:
19.5 knots

Radar:
DA-08 air/surface search

Armament:
2x 30mm Goalkeeper CIWS
2x 20mm Oerlikon guns

Air Group:
4 EH-101 or
6 NH-90 helicopters

Well Deck:
2 LCU

Troops:
400-555

Cargo:
170 APC or
30 tanks

Amsterdam Class
http://www.scheldeshipbuilding.com/pics/a836_c.gif
http://www.scheldeshipbuilding.com/pics/a836_b.jpg
Ships in Service:
A836 Hr.Ms. Amsterdam, 1995

Crew:
161 + 70 transients

Tonnage:
17,050 tons full load

Dimensions:
175 x 23.7 x 8 meters

Max Speed:
21.0 knots

Radar:
no combat radars

Armament:
1x 30mm Goalkeeper CIWS
2x 20mm Oerlikon guns

Air Group:
2 x heavy weight (EH-101) or 3 x medium weight helicopters (NH-90)

Cargo:
Fuel oil 9000 ton
Provisions 80 ton
Ammunition 200 ton
Spare parts 10 ton

Improved Poolster Class
http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav/europe/images/a832.jpg
Ships in Service:
A832 Hr.Ms. Zuiderkruis, 1975

Crew:
173

Tonnage:
17,357 tons full load

Dimensions:
169.59 x 20.3 x 8.4 meters

Max Speed:
21.0 knots

Radar:
no combat radars

Armament:
1x 30mm Goalkeeper CIWS
5x 20mm Oerlikon guns
dept charges (probally not used anymore)

Air Group:
3x Sea Links Helicopter

Cargo:
9,000 tons fuel
400 tons aviation fuel
200 tons water
plus spares and munitions

New AOR program
http://www.readyayeready.com/timeline/2010s/new-aor.gif
could look something like this

Ships in Service:
(1 planned to replace Zuiderkruis, 2nd option to replace Amsterdam, commision not before 2015)

Characteristics unknown

Various images and information from:
http://www.marine.nl
http://www.schelde.com
http://www.hazegray.org
http://www.readyayeready.com

sOmeOne

June 9th, 2005, 10:07 AM

Yeah, the powerpuff navies of Europe :D

Well, I'm not gonna flood the thread with Russian pictures because apparently Russian navy is "not advanced enough" :sly:
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/akula/images/akula2.jpg

Crownsteler

June 9th, 2005, 10:39 AM

haha, that have got to be the only 2 ships left afloat of the Russian navy :P
(the Russian Kirovs are cool btw, if they are still afloat :P)

anyway
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/b/be.gif
I'm sorry, but I just had to include this navy, it really is totally insignificant, but as a Dutchmen, I just have to (and have a good laugh of it :P)
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/b/be~naven.gif
The Belgian Navy:
Frigates
2x Wielingen Class (3th recently sold to Bulgaria)
0x Karel Doorman Class (option to buy 2 Dutch Karel Doorman Class frigates when they are decomisioned)

Amphibious Ships
0x LPH/LPD (planned in coöperation with Luxembourg)

Auxiliariers
1x Godetia class Command/Logistics Ship (to be decomisioned in 2010)
(+ a few other Auxiliaries not worth mentioning :P)

The Belgian navy is part of the Admirality of the Benelux, which, in short, means that all Belgian ships are part of the Dutch navy :P
For marine flight operations outside Belgian territorial waters, they are completely reliant on the Dutch Royal Navy
(Belgian Naval Helicopter (http://www.mil.be/navycomp/viewpic.asp?LAN=nl&FILE=gall&ID=30782&SIZE=big))

Wielingen Class
http://www.mil.be/navycomp/viewpic.asp?LAN=nl&FILE=unittext&ID=439
http://www.mil.be/navycomp/viewpic.asp?LAN=nl&FILE=unittext&ID=500
Ships in Service:
F910 Wielingen, 1978
F911 Westdiep, 1978
(F912 Wandelaar, 1978, sold to Bulgaria)

Crew:
160

Tonnage:
2,283 tons full load

Dimensions:
106.38 x 12.3 5.3 meters

Max Speed:
25.0 knots

Radar:
DA-05 air search
SQS-505A hull sonar

Armament:
1x CREUSOT LOIRE 100mm DP gun
4x 4 MM38 Exocet SSM
1x 8 cell Sea Sparrow short/medium range SAM
1x BOFORS 375 mm ASW mortar
2x ECAN L5 Mod 4 torpedo launchers (10 torpedos)

Air Group:
none

New LHP/LPD program
http://www.scheldeshipbuilding.com/enforcer/pics/enforcer.jpg
could look like one of the above

Characteristics unknown
Belgian Navy will fund 7/8th, and Luxembourg will fund the remaining 1/8th of the costs
Construction on the short term unlikely

Godetia Class
http://www.mil.be/navycomp/viewpic.asp?LAN=nl&FILE=unittext&ID=620
Ships in Service:
A960 Godetia, 1966 (to be decomisioned in 2010)

Crew:
95

Tonnage:
2,500 tons full load

Dimensions:
91.83 x 14 x 3.5 meters

Max Speed:
18.0 knots

Radar:
No combat radars

Armament:
2x (BOFORS?) 40 mm AA
6x 12.7 mm MG

Air Group:
1x Augusta Bell light helicopter
Only ship in the Belgian Navy with helicopter capability, construction of replacement on the short term; unlikely

Source
http://www.mil.be/navycomp/

Canary Wharf

June 9th, 2005, 12:55 PM

The Royal Navy is rather large, so I'll just post the link to the Royal Navy's own register of ships (the list does not however include auxillary or mothballed ships).

http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/static/pages/2204.html

:D

Matthieu

June 9th, 2005, 01:03 PM

Well, here is the list of the French navy:

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/listes/alphabec.htm

Matthieu

June 9th, 2005, 01:12 PM

Amethyste Class

Category: Attack submarines

6 Units:
S601 Rubis
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/rubis/blason01.jpg
S602 Saphir
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/saphir/blason01.jpg
S603 Casabianca
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/casabian/blason01.jpg
S604 Emeraude
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/emeraude/blason01.jpg
S605 Amethyste
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/amethyst/blason01.jpg
S606 Perle
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/perle/blason01.jpg

They'll be replaced by the Barracuda class in the future.

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/rubis/

SSN RUBIS AMETHYSTE CLASS ATTACK SUBMARINE, FRANCE

The French Navy operate six Rubis Amethyste class submarines from the naval base in Toulon. The submarines, built at the Cherbourg Naval Dockyard of DCN, are the Rubis S601 commissioned in 1983, Saphir S602 (1984), Casabianca S603 (1987), Emeraude S604 (1988), Amethyste S605 (1992) and Perle S606 (1993). The six Rubis Amethyste submarines are nuclear-powered, but DCN has developed a derivative of this class with diesel propulsion, the Turquoise, which can also be fitted with DCN's Mesma air independent propulsion (AIP) system. The first four submarines were initially equipped for an anti-surface ship role but have been re-equipped to the same standard as the later submarines for both anti-surface and anti-submarine warfare.

Rubis Amethyste Class submarines are to be replaced by the Barracuda Class nuclear powered attack submarines, which are planned to enter service from 2012.

COMBAT SYSTEM

The submarine's weapon control system is the DLA 2B and DLA 3. The tactical data system is the Systeme d'Armes Tactique (SAT).

MISSILES

The torpedo tube launched Exocet SM39 anti-ship missile is manufactured by MBDA (formerly EADS Aerospatiale). Target range and bearing data is downloaded from the submarine's tactical data system and weapon control system into the Exocet's computer. The missile approaches the target area in sea-skimming mode using inertial navigation and then active radar homing. The missile approaches the target at speeds over Mach 0.9 and the range is 50km. The Exocet's 165kg high-explosive shaped charge warhead is armed with a delayed impact and a proximity fuse.

TORPEDOES

The submarine has the capacity to carry 14 missiles and torpedoes in a mixed load. The four 533mm torpedo tubes are equipped with a pneumatic ram system for discharging torpedoes from the tubes.

The ECAN L5 Mod 3 torpedo is equipped with active and passive homing and has a range of 9.5km. The torpedo has a speed of 35 knots and delivers a 150 kg warhead to a depth of 550m. The ECAN F17 Mod 2 torpedo is a wire guided torpedo with active and passive homing to a range of 20km. The torpedo delivers a 250 kg warhead to a depth of 600m.

COUNTERMEASURES

The Thales (formerly Thomson-CSF) DR 3000U electronic support measures system is a radar warning receiver (French Navy designation ARUR-13) operating in D to K bands. The system uses a masthead antenna array with omnidirectional and monopulse directional antennas and a separate periscope warning antenna. The system provides direction finding accuracy of higher resolution than 1°.

SENSORS

The Rubis Amethyste's Type 1007 navigation radar is supplied by Kelvin Hughes and operates at I-band.

The sonar suite includes the Thales Underwater Systems (formerly Thomson Marconi Sonar) DMUX 20 multifunctional passive sonar operating at low frequency. The submarine's very low-frequency passive towed array system is the DSUV 62C.

PROPULSION

The propulsion system of the Rubis Amethyste is a nuclear-powered turbo-electric system. The Pressure Water Reactor (PWR) CAS 48 provides 48MW. A diesel-electric SEMT-Pielstick and Jeumont Schneider 8 PA4 V 185 SM provides the auxiliary propulsion. The submarine achieves a dived speed of 25 knots.
TURQUOISE SSK SUBMARINE

The Turquoise SSK submarine is a derivative of the Rubis Amethyste class, developed for export. Turquoise is equipped for anti-surface and anti-submarine missions and is capable of carrying out special missions, from intelligence gathering and mine laying to commando landing and recovery operations.

The diesel generators and battery capacity ensure a low indiscretion rate and a long submerged endurance. The indiscretion rate is the ratio of the time needed to remain at periscope depth to recharge the batteries and the total operating time.

The endurance of the Turquoise SSK submarine is more than 60 days, whereas that of the Rubis Amethyste is 45 days. Underwater endurance of the Turquoise can be considerably extended by the fitting of the Mesma air-independent propulsion (AIP) system, developed jointly by DCN, Air Liquide, Bertin, Izar (formerly E.N. Bazan), Framatome-Thermodyn and Technicatome.

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/rubis/images/rubis5.jpg

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/rubis/images/rubis3.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/rubis/index.htm

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/casabian/photo06.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/amethyst/photo06.jpg

Matthieu

June 9th, 2005, 03:27 PM

Foudre Class

Category: Amphibious assault ship

2 Units:
L9011 Foudre
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/tcd/foudre/blason01.jpg
L9012 Sirocco
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/tcd/siroco/blason01.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/tcd/foudre/index.htm
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/tcd/foudre/caract01.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/tcd/foudre/caract05.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/tcd/foudre/caract03.jpg

Comparison with the Mistral
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/tcd/mistral/caract03.jpg

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/foudre/

FOUDRE CLASS LANDING PLATFORM DOCKS, FRANCE

The French Navy operates two Foudre class landing platform dock ships, the Foudre (L9011) and the Siroco (L9012), which were commissioned in 1990 and 1998. The ships were built at the Brest Naval Dockyard of DCN. The ships are assigned to the Force d'Action Navale based at the Toulon Mediterranean Command.

The Foudre class is capable of landing and supporting a mechanised armoured regiment of the French rapid deployment force. The three main missions of the Foudre class are the landing of infantry and armoured vehicles on unprepared coasts, mobile logistic support for naval forces and humanitarian missions.

DESIGN

The Foudre class has a 13,000m³ well dock which can be used as a floating dock or to carry land vehicles. The well dock can accommodate either ten medium-size landing craft (LCMs) or one mechanised landing craft (LSM) and four medium-sized landing craft (LCMs). Mobile decks can be used to provide vehicle parking space or for landing operations. The cargo lift has a 52t capacity. The 12m crane is rated to carry 37t of cargo.

The ship's complement is 210 crew with 13 officers. The ship can also accommodate 467 passengers or troops. With 700 crew and passengers, the ship has an endurance of 30 days. In times of crisis the ship can accommodate up to 1,600 people.

To meet military and humanitarian requirements, Foudre class ships provide hospital facilities for large-scale medical and evacuation missions, including two fully equipped operating theatres and 47 beds.

HELICOPTERS

The ship, which has a 1,450m² flight deck, can accommodate up to seven Super Puma helicopters. There are three helicopter landing spots, two on the flight deck and one on the 400m² deck well rolling cover. The flight deck is equipped with a Samahe haul down system. The helicopter hangar has capacity for two Super Frelon helicopters or up to four Super Puma helicopters.

The Foudre class provides full flight-deck support for the simultaneous deployment, including day and night refuelling, of four 9t helicopters.

COMMAND SYSTEMS

The Foudre class ships are equipped with DCN's SENIT 8 combat data system and an OPSMER command support system. The ship's communication suite is integrated with the Syracuse satellite communications system.

MISTRAL MISSILES

The ship is armed with two Simbad twin missile launchers, supplied by MBDA (formerly Matra BAe Dynamics), for the Mistral surface-to-air missile. Mistral provides short-range air defence against aircraft and anti-ship missiles. The range is from 0.5 to 5km. Mistral has a 3kg warhead and a speed of 2.6 Mach. The passive infrared homing was developed by SAGEM based in Paris.

30MM GUNS

The ships are armed with three Oto Melara/Mauser 30mm/70 calibre guns capable of firing 6kg shells at a firing rate of 800 rounds per minute.The guns are integrated with two VIGY 105 optronic weapon control systems supplied by Sagem, which include thermal imager, TV camera and laser rangefinder.

COUNTERMEASURES

The ships are fitted with the ARBB 36 Salamandre B2 multi-threat jammer from Thales (formerlyThomson-CSF) Detexis which locates, classifies and evaluates threats.

RADAR SUITE

The ship's radar suite consists of the Thales DRBV 21 A Mars air and surface search radar operating at D band, Thales Defence Model 2459 surface search radar operating at D band, and two Thales Defence I band RM 1229 navigation radars.

PROPULSION SYSTEM

The ship's propulsion system is based on two 16 PC2.5V 400 diesel engines supplied by SEMT-Pielstick. The diesels, rated at 15.3MW sustained power, drive two shafts with controllable pitch propellers. The bow thruster is rated at 735kW. The propulsion system provides a maximum speed of 21 knots. At an economical speed of 15 knots the range is 11,000 miles.

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/foudre/images/foudre2.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/tcd/foudre/photo06.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/tcd/foudre/photo10.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/tcd/siroco/photo01.jpg

ch1le

June 9th, 2005, 03:59 PM

/\ thats just awesome, gotta love those other boats inside this one... this is like a huge naval protos carrier! :D

Fallout

June 9th, 2005, 07:10 PM

So far we have:

Aircraft Carriers:
1x Charles de Gaulle class (France)
3x Invincible class (UK)

Assault ships:
1x Ocean class (UK)
2x Albion class (UK)
2x Mistral class (France)
2x Foudre class (France)
1x Rotterdam class (Netherlands)

Destroyers:
9x Type 42 class (UK)

Frigates:
15x Type 23 class (UK)
4x Type 22 class (UK)
2x Horizon class (France)
5x La Fayette class (France)
2x Horizon class (Italy)
3x Sachsen class (Germany)
4x De Zeven Provincien class (Netherlands)
8x Karel Doorman class (Netherlands)
2x Wielingen class (Belgium)
4x Alvaro de Bazan class (Spain)
3x Vasco da Gama class (Portugal)
2x Oliver Hazard Perry class (Poland)

Corvettes:
6x Visby class (Sweden)
3x Baptista de Andrade class (Portugal)
1x Kaszub class (Poland)
4x Tarantul class (Poland)

Nuclear submarines:
4x Vanguard class (UK)
4x Swiftsure class (UK)
7x Trafalgar class (UK)
6x Rubis class (France)
4x Triomphant class (France)

Diesel Submarines:
4x Walrus class (Netherlands)
3x Daphne class (Portugal)
2x Type 209 class (Portugal)
1x Kilo class (Poland)
4x Kobben class (Poland)

SHiRO

June 9th, 2005, 08:20 PM

4x De Zeven Provincien class (Netherlands)

Are technically destroyers too.

Kampflamm

June 9th, 2005, 08:28 PM

http://www.marine.de/80256B4100373886/RepositoryFile/TopFrame/$FILE/marine.gifhttp://www.marine.de/80256B4100373886/RepositoryFile/TopFrame/$FILE/marine.gifhttp://www.marine.de/80256B4100373886/RepositoryFile/TopFrame/$FILE/marine.gifhttp://www.marine.de/80256B4100373886/RepositoryFile/TopFrame/$FILE/marine.gifhttp://www.marine.de/80256B4100373886/RepositoryFile/TopFrame/$FILE/marine.gifhttp://www.marine.de/80256B4100373886/RepositoryFile/TopFrame/$FILE/marine.gifhttp://www.marine.de/80256B4100373886/RepositoryFile/TopFrame/$FILE/marine.gif

Ready for ze next Feindfahrt

http://www.nord-com.net/cord.schroeder/U212_gr.jpg

http://www.marine.de/80256B100061BA9B/vwContentByKey/N255B3FP888MMISDE/$File/ufltllogo.gif

sOmeOne

June 9th, 2005, 10:08 PM

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=shkval+supersonic+torpedo&btnG=Search
:laugh:

There's one for each!

CborG

June 9th, 2005, 10:40 PM

Do we 'own' the belgian navy?:crazy:

Amazing

June 9th, 2005, 10:46 PM

Lol. Why would we need a navy anyway? It cost lots of money. Besides, we don't use them. We can use the money for better purposes, such as the economy and development. Though our politicians and biggest ***** ** **** I know. They ***** the country. :bash:

Matthieu

June 9th, 2005, 11:13 PM

Ok, some precision.

So far we have:

Assault ships:

2x Mistral class (France)

The first is built and will soon enter in service. The second one is in construction and should be soon finished. The current boats are the two Ouragan class. But they'll be decomissioned for the Mistral indeed.

Frigates:
2x Horizon class (France)
2x Horizon class (Italy)

Named Fregate because we don't have words in French for destroyer and we don't make the distinction between the two. But they are destroyers in fact, so far two are in construction for France but two more are scheduled, but it's a longer term.

Nuclear submarines:
6x Rubis class (France)
4x Triomphant class (France)

You should make the distinction between the Attack submarines, the Amethyste class and the tactical ones, the Triomphant. 1 Triomphant isn't yet finished, and the Amethyste will be replaced by the Barracuda, but it's more distant.

http://www.dcn.fr/produits/img/sna_barracuda_visu2.jpg

For the British navy, the Vanguard are tactical, the others are attack.

willo

June 9th, 2005, 11:48 PM

SPAIN

anphibian ship class galicia

http://www.revistanaval.com/armada/noticias/260600L52_07.jpg
http://losbarcosdeeugenio.com/loba/imagenes/fotos/barcos/L52-castilla.jpg
http://losbarcosdeeugenio.com/loba/imagenes/fotos/barcos/L51-Galicia.jpg

Ning

June 9th, 2005, 11:53 PM

All this money wasted. Would be better to scrap all the taxes.

willo

June 10th, 2005, 12:07 AM

more SPAIN

aircraft ''príncipe de asturias''

http://losbarcosdeeugenio.com/loba/imagenes/fotos/barcos/R11-principe.jpg
http://www.armada.mde.es/org/flotaesquema/img/asturias.jpg
http://www.santanderfestivaldelmar.com/Imagenes/principedeasturias.jpg

frigates f100

http://www.belt.es/noticias/2005/Febrero/24/f100.jpg
http://www.revistanaval.com/imaxes/actualidad_f101.jpg
http://www.revistanaval.com/armada/buques2/f100.jpg
http://www.editorialbitacora.com/armagedon/fragata/fragata01.jpg

frigates f80

http://www.revistanaval.com/armada/buques2/f80.jpg

frigates f70

http://www.revistanaval.com/armada/buques2/f70.jpg

anphibian ship class hernan cortes

http://losbarcosdeeugenio.com/loba/imagenes/fotos/barcos/L42/L42-Pizarro-superior.jpg
http://losbarcosdeeugenio.com/loba/imagenes/fotos/barcos/L42-Pizarro.jpg

strategic proyection ship
http://losbarcosdeeugenio.com/loba/imagenes/fotos/barcos/L61-bisho.jpg
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/images/bpe-line2.gif

submarine s60 delfin

http://www.revistanaval.com/armada/buques2/s60.jpg
http://www.orihueladigital.es/orihuela/torrevieja_submarino_080504_2.jpg
http://www.telecable.es/personales/submarinos/delfin/delfin04.JPG

subamrine s70 galerna
http://www.revistanaval.com/armada/buques2/s70.jpg
http://www.revistanaval.com/imaxes/perejil_fas_02.jpg

subamrine s80 (to be delivered between 2011 and 2014)
http://losbarcosdeeugenio.com/loba/imagenes/fotos/barcos/S80.jpg
http://www.revistanaval.com/armada/buques2/s80d.jpg

frigate F-102
http://www.revistanaval.com/txemaprada/imagenes/wallpapers/F102-JuandeBorbon.jpg
http://losbarcosdeeugenio.com/loba/imagenes/fotos/barcos/F102-juandeborbon.jpg
http://losbarcosdeeugenio.com/loba/imagenes/fotos/barcos/F102-2004.jpg

Petronius

June 10th, 2005, 02:39 AM

more about portugal's navy:

NAVY - Marinha

MAIN EQUIPMENT:

Type 209 - fast attack submarines*
Albacora Class (Daphne): NRP Barracuda and Delfim - fast attack submarines
Commandante João Belo Class (Commandant Riviere): NRP Commandante João Belo, Commandante Sacadura Cabral, Commandante Hermengildo Capelo and Commandante Roberto Ivens - frigates
Vasco da Gamma Class (MEKO 200): NRP Alvares Cabral, Corte Real and Vasca da Gama - frigates
Oliver Hazard Perry Class - frigates*
Baptista de Andrade Class: NRP Alfonso Cergueira, João Roby and Oliveria e Carmo - corvettes
João Coutinho Class: NRP António Enes, Augusto Castillo, General Pereira D'Eça, João Coutinho, Zaire and Zambeze - corvettes
Cacine Class: NRP Cacine, Cuanza, Cuneme, Geba, Limpopo, Mandovi, Rovuma, Sav, D Honório and João Cãndido - large patrol craft
Albatroz Class: NRP Açor, Aguia, Albatroz, Andorinha, Cisne and Condor - river patrol craft
Argos Class - river patrol craft
Rio Minho Class - river patrol craft
Centauro Class - river patrol craft
Bombarda Class - landing vessel
Super Lynx Mk95 - ASW/ASV (5)

COMMAND STRUCTURE AND UNITS:

The Portuguese Navy's command structure is divided into a main Naval Area Command and four subordinate territorial commands, comprising the Azores, Maderia, North and South Continental.

Major bases are at Leca la Palmeira, Lisbon and Portimao. The Navy is equipped with about 70 vessels, including two submarines and six frigates. The 1,500-strong Corpo de Fuzileiros (Portuguese Marines Corps) comprise two battalions, a special forces detachment and a military police unit.

PORTUGAL'S MILITARY STRENGTH:

ARMY: 25,600 (including conscripts)
AIR FORCE: 7,400 (including conscripts)
NAVY: 11,600 (including conscripts and marines)
RESERVES: 245,700

DEFENCE BUDGET:

€2.7 billion (2003)

Caustic

June 10th, 2005, 04:43 AM

This thread is defenitely not my piece of cake :nono: , but no other Italian forumer has intervened, so... I'll post some pictures of lighthouses :wtf: (owned by the Italian Navy, just to stay on topic)

http://www.marina.difesa.it/fari/images/fari/capocaccia.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/fari/images/fari/capodorlando.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/fari/images/fari/caposandalo.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/fari/images/fari/secchemeloria.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/fari/images/fari/portofino.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/fari/images/fari/olbia.jpg

If you're disappointed by my peaceful contribution (you war-heads! :guns1: ), have a look at all them fat boats (http://www.marina.difesa.it/unita/index.htm) and submarines (http://www.marina.difesa.it/sommergibili/index.htm) .

Fallout

June 10th, 2005, 12:02 PM

Updated from www.hazegray.org and other sites.

Aircraft Carriers:

1x Charles de Gaulle class (France)
3x Invincible class (UK)
1x Principe de Asturias class (Spain)
1x Garibaldi class (Italy)

Assault ships:

1x Ocean class (UK)
2x Albion class (UK)
2x Mistral class (France)
2x Foudre class (France)
1x Rotterdam class (Netherlands)

Destroyers:

9x Type 42 (UK)
2x Horizon class (France)
2x Tourville class (France)
2x Horizon class (Italy)
2x Durand de la Penne class (Italy)
4x De Zeven Provincien class (Netherlands)

Frigates:

15x Type 23 (UK)
4x Type 22 (UK)
5x La Fayette class (France)
6x Floreal class (France)
2x Cassard class (France)
7x Georges Leygues (France)
4x Artigliere class (Italy)
8x Maestrale class (Italy)
3x Sachsen class (Germany)
4x Brandenburg class (Germany)
8x Bremen class (Germany)
4x Alvaro de Bazan class (Spain)
6x Santa Maria class (Spain)
5x Baleares class (Spain)
4x Descubierta class (Spain)
8x Karel Doorman class (Netherlands)
2x Wielingen class (Belgium)
4x Thetis class (Denmark)
3x Vasco da Gama class (Portugal)
3x Joao Belo class (Portugal)
2x Oliver Hazard Perry class (Poland)
9x Kortenaer class (Greece)
4x Hydra class (Greece)

Corvettes:

8x Minerva class (Italy)
6x Visby class (Sweden)
3x Niels Juel class (Denmark)
3x Baptista de Andrade class (Portugal)
1x Kaszub class (Poland)
4x Tarantul class (Poland)
5x Thetis class (Greece)

Nuclear attack submarines:

4x Vanguard class (UK)
4x Triomphant class (France)

Nuclear attack submarines:

4x Swiftsure class (UK)
7x Trafalgar class (UK)
6x Rubis class (France)

Diesel Submarines:

4x Type 212A (Germany)
8x Type 206A (Germany)
6x Nazario Sauro class (Italy)
4x Agosta class (Spain)
4x Daphne class (Spain)
4x Walrus class (Netherlands)
3x Gotland class (Sweden)
4x Vastergotland class (Sweden)
2x Nacken class (Sweden)
3x Daphne class (Portugal)
2x Type 209 (Portugal)
8x Type 209 (Greece)
1x Kilo class (Poland)
4x Kobben class (Poland)

Can you tell me what is the distinction between desroyer and frigates cause many ships are included in either of these classes depending on source?

Matthieu

June 10th, 2005, 12:18 PM

Those articles will tell you more on the topic than a post would ;):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destroyer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frigate

Your list is still not perfectly accurate on frigates/destroyers/cruisers in France. I'll keep posting stuff and comments.

Matthieu

June 10th, 2005, 12:25 PM

Jeanne d'Arc class

1 Unit, to be decomissioned in the future.

R97 Jeanne d'Arc

Category:Cruiser

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/bsm/rhin/photo50.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/porteavi/jeanne/photo22.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/fregates/floreal/photo07.jpg

I wonder if it should be included, as it's to be decomissioned in the future and is an old ship.

Matthieu

June 10th, 2005, 12:39 PM

One hint, on this list the ships whose ID start by D are destroyers:

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/listes/alphabec.htm

Matthieu

June 10th, 2005, 12:52 PM

Frigates:

2x Cassard class (France)

Those are destroyers in practice. They'll be replaced in the distant future by the 2 last Horizons (so the Horizon 3 and 4, but since you didn't put the last two horizons in the list the two Cassards will do it then).

Cassard class

Category: Destroyers

2 units:
D614 Cassard
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/fregates/cassard/blason01.jpg
D615 Jean Bart
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/fregates/jeanbart/blason01.jpg

CASSARD CLASS DESTROYERS, FRANCE

The French Navy Cassard Class anti-aircraft frigates are assigned to the Force d'Action Navale with headquarters at the Mediterranean Command base at Toulon. The Cassard (D 614) and the Jean Bart (D 615), built at the Lorient naval Dockyard of DCN, were commissioned in 1988 and 1991.

COMMAND AND CONTROL

The ship is equipped with the Senit combat data system, developed by DCN, and an OPSMER command support system. Senit gathers, correlates, evaluates and displays information from shipboard sensors and handles data exchanges with other units, via tactical data links, including Link 11 and 14 and the Syracuse satellite communications system.

Fire control is provided by the DCN CTMS and the SAGEM DIBV 1A Vampir infrared detector is integrated with the ship's search radar for target tracking. A Najir optronic fire director from EADS Matra Systèmes & Information is fitted for the main gun.

MISSILES

Two four-cell missile launchers for the Exocet MM40 are installed in a midship position between the two citadels. Exocet is produced by MBDA (formerly EADS Aerospatiale). The anti-ship missile has a range of 70km and speed of approximately 0.95 Mach. The Mark 13 Mod 5 launcher for the Standard SM-1R surface-to-air missile is installed forward of the helicopter hangar. SM-1MR has a maximum speed of Mach 2 with a range of 45km and altitude up to 18km. The Aster 30 missile will replace the SM-1MR during the ships' mid-life refit.

The French Navy has awarded MBDA a contract for the Exocet MM40 Block 3 missile to be deployed on vessels from 2006. The Block 3 missile will have a new turbojet propulsion system which will give a range extended to 180km.

Two Sadral six round turrets for the MBDA (Matra BAe Dynamics) Mistral missile are mounted on the raised deck each side of the helicopter hangar. The infrared-guided Mistral provides short-range air defence to a range of 5km.

GUNS

The main gun is the DCN 100mm gun, which is capable of firing 13.5kg shells at a rate of 80 rounds/min to a range of 8km. The ship also has two Oerlikon 20mm guns, which have a range of 10km and a firing rate of 720 rounds/min.

TORPEDOES

The ship has two KD 59E torpedo launchers for ECAN L5 Mod 4 anti-submarine torpedoes. The torpedoes have a speed of 35 knots and use active and passive homing to deliver a 150kg warhead to a depth of 550m at a target range up to 10km.

HELICOPTER

The ship has a flight deck at the stern with a single landing spot for the Eurocopter AS 565MA Panther helicopter. The ship stores an arsenal of helicopter-launched Mark 46 torpedoes supplied by ATK (AlliantTechsystems). The DCN Samahe helicopter handling system allows deployment and recovery of the helicopter in high sea states.

COUNTERMEASURES

The ship is fitted with the DR-3000S (French Navy designation ARBR 17B) radar warning receiver operating in D to K bands. The radar jammer is the Thales Optrosys ARBB-33, an early variant of the Salamandre, which is used to counter hostile I, H and J band radars.

The ship has two EADS Matra Systèmes & Information Dagaie and two Sagaie decoy launchers for chaff or infrared flares. The ship is also equipped with the LAD offboard decoy supplied by Thales and the AN/SLQ-23 Nixie towed torpedo decoy.

SENSORS

The ship's radar suite includes DRBJ 11B 3D air search radar and DRBV 26C air and surface search radar operating at D band, from Thales. Two fire control radars are the I band Thales DRBC 33A and Raytheon SPG-51C operating at G and I bands.

The ship's hull mounted sonar is the Thales Underwater Systems (formerly Thomson Marconi Sonar) SDUBA 25A or DUBV 24C operating in search and attack modes.

PROPULSION

The ship's propulsion system is based on four SEMT-Pielstick 18 PA6 V 280 BTC diesel engines rated at 31.75MW sustained power and driving two shafts. The maximum speed is 30 knots. The range, at an economical speed of 18 knots, is 8,000 miles.

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/cassard/images/cassard9.jpg

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/cassard/images/cassard7.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/fregates/jeanbart/photo15.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/fregates/jeanbart/photo06.jpg

Bender

June 10th, 2005, 12:58 PM

Aircraft Carriers:

1x Charles de Gaulle class (France)
3x Invincible class (UK)
1x Principe de Asturias class (Spain)
1x Garibaldi class (Italy)

Except the Charles de Gaulle, other ships are barely carriers

Deadeye

June 10th, 2005, 04:39 PM

@Caustic Window: BEST POST IN THIS THREAD! :applause: :okay:

Matthieu

June 10th, 2005, 06:48 PM

An slightly corrected list, the Jeanne d'Arc has been added. The Cassard class was moved from Frigates to destroyer, the Georges Leygues class too as it is identified as destroyer too (D640 to D646).

I added the Aviso in the Frigate subsection, even if they have a different purpose the closest in this list in Frigate and they are identified as those (F789 to F797).

Also corrected a minor typo.

Aircraft Carriers:

1x Charles de Gaulle class (France)
3x Invincible class (UK)
1x Principe de Asturias class (Spain)
1x Garibaldi class (Italy)

Cruisers:

1x Jeanne d'Arc class (France)

Assault ships:

1x Ocean class (UK)
2x Albion class (UK)
2x Mistral class (France)
2x Foudre class (France)
1x Rotterdam class (Netherlands)

Destroyers:

9x Type 42 (UK)
2x Horizon class (France)
2x Tourville class (France)
2x Cassard class (France)
7x Georges Leygues (France)
2x Horizon class (Italy)
2x Durand de la Penne class (Italy)
4x De Zeven Provincien class (Netherlands)

Frigates:

15x Type 23 (UK)
4x Type 22 (UK)
5x La Fayette class (France)
6x Floreal class (France)
10x Aviso class (France)
4x Artigliere class (Italy)
8x Maestrale class (Italy)
3x Sachsen class (Germany)
4x Brandenburg class (Germany)
8x Bremen class (Germany)
4x Alvaro de Bazan class (Spain)
6x Santa Maria class (Spain)
5x Baleares class (Spain)
4x Descubierta class (Spain)
8x Karel Doorman class (Netherlands)
2x Wielingen class (Belgium)
4x Thetis class (Denmark)
3x Vasco da Gama class (Portugal)
3x Joao Belo class (Portugal)
2x Oliver Hazard Perry class (Poland)
9x Kortenaer class (Greece)
4x Hydra class (Greece)

Corvettes:

8x Minerva class (Italy)
6x Visby class (Sweden)
3x Niels Juel class (Denmark)
3x Baptista de Andrade class (Portugal)
1x Kaszub class (Poland)
4x Tarantul class (Poland)
5x Thetis class (Greece)

Nuclear tactical submarines:

4x Vanguard class (UK)
4x Triomphant class (France)

Nuclear attack submarines:

4x Swiftsure class (UK)
7x Trafalgar class (UK)
6x Rubis class (France)

Diesel Submarines:

4x Type 212A (Germany)
8x Type 206A (Germany)
6x Nazario Sauro class (Italy)
4x Agosta class (Spain)
4x Daphne class (Spain)
4x Walrus class (Netherlands)
3x Gotland class (Sweden)
4x Vastergotland class (Sweden)
2x Nacken class (Sweden)
3x Daphne class (Portugal)
2x Type 209 (Portugal)
8x Type 209 (Greece)
1x Kilo class (Poland)
4x Kobben class (Poland)

Matthieu

June 10th, 2005, 06:55 PM

The Georges Leygues class, unfairly called fregates:

7 Units

D640 Georges Leygues
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/fregates/gleygues/blason01.jpg
D641 Dupleix
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/fregates/dupleix/blason01.jpg
D642 Montcalm
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/fregates/montcalm/blason01.jpg
D643 Jean de Vienne
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/fregates/jdvienne/blason01.jpg
D644 Primauguet
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/fregates/primaug/blason01.jpg
D645 La Motte Picquet
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/fregates/lamotte/blason01.jpg
D646 Latouche Treville
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/fregates/latouche/blason01.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/fregates/gleygues/photo06.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/fregates/dupleix/photo08.jpg

Matthieu

June 10th, 2005, 07:00 PM

And the Tourville class, those were correctly identified as destroyers:

2 Units:

D610 Tourville
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/fregates/tourvil/blason01.jpg
D612 De Grasse
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/fregates/degrasse/blason01.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/fregates/degrasse/photo19.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/fregates/degrasse/photo11.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/fregates/tourvil/photo02.jpg

sOmeOne

June 10th, 2005, 08:01 PM

Hmm, let's see here. These are the numbers for Russian navy in 1995 (anyone got 2005 numbers?):

Aircraft Carriers: 1
SSBN Submarines: 27
SSGN Submarines: 15
SSN Submarines: 50
BSGN Battlecruisers: 4
CG's (whatever those are): 3
Destroyers: 46
FFs: 124

Actually the official website of Russian NAVY has lots of info on NATO ships as well, with links and such. That' includes Europe:
http://www.navy.ru/main-e.htm

eievar

June 10th, 2005, 08:34 PM

french ships are really impresive

Matthieu

June 10th, 2005, 09:14 PM

Floréal class frigates

6 unit:

F730 Floréal
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/fregates/floreal/blason04.jpg
F731 Prairial
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/fregates/prairial/blason01.jpg
F732 Nivose
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/fregates/nivose/blason01.jpg
F733 Ventôse
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/fregates/ventose/blason01.jpg
F734 Vendémiaire
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/fregates/vendemia/blason01.jpg
F735 Germinal
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/fregates/germinal/blason01.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/fregates/floreal/photo02.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/fregates/prairial/photo09.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/fregates/ventose/photo02.jpg

Jai-C

June 10th, 2005, 09:40 PM

New corvettes (5) of the german navy (Braunschweig class):

http://212.72.173.53/media/7d9cf33b866d805d4848e3534f790bd4.jpg

http://www.nordseewerke.de/img/k130.jpg

Main characteristics ship platform:
Length, overall: 88.30 m
Beam, overall: 13.23 m
Design displacement: 1,650 t

Propulsion:
2 diesel engines 7,400 kW each
2 shafts with controllable pitch propellers
rudder roll stabilization system
Maximum speed > 26 kn
Range > 2,500 nm

Modules:
5 weapon modules

Crew:
Total: 65

Datasheet:
http://212.72.173.53/media/3185da9f86d45a1fecb5f3113a34b89a.pdf

Matthieu

June 10th, 2005, 09:41 PM

Gotta love those military porn thread.

The Aviso class

10 units:

F788 Second-Maître Le Bihan
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/avisos/smlebiha/blason01.jpg
F789 Lieutenant de vaisseau Le Hénaff
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/avisos/lvlehena/blason01.jpg
F790 Lieutenant de vaisseau Lavallée
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/avisos/lvlaval/blason01.jpg
F791 Commandant L'Herminier
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/avisos/cdtlermi/blason01.jpg
F792 Premier-Maître L'Her
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/avisos/pmlher/blason01.jpg
F793 Commandant Blaison
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/avisos/cdtblais/blason01.jpg
F794 Enseigne de vaisseau Jacoubet
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/avisos/evjacoub/blason01.jpg
F795 Commandant Ducuing
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/avisos/cdtducui/blason01.jpg
F796 Commandant Birot
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/avisos/cdtbirot/blason01.jpg
F797 Commandant Bouan
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/avisos/cdtbouan/blason01.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/avisos/cdtbouan/photo06.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/avisos/cdtducui/photo04.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/avisos/cdtbirot/photo05.jpg

Matthieu

June 10th, 2005, 09:46 PM

A bonus, it's a cancelled project. An Aluminium Magnesium built ship of only 200 tons.

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/divers/agnes200/photo05.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/divers/agnes200/photo04.jpg

Matthieu

June 10th, 2005, 10:11 PM

BTW, I didn't post stuff that is only on the way to be decomissioned like the Duchesne frigates/destroyers (to be replaced soon by the first two horizons) and the Orage and Ouragan (to be replaced by the two Mistrals).

The Cassard class (so Cassard and Jean Bart) will be in the distant future replaced by two more horizons.

The Georges Leygues (7 ships) and the Avisos (10 ships) will be replaced by 17 FREMM (I'll devellop those later, even if that's distant).

The Amethyste (6 subs) will be replaced by 6 Barracuda class.

And a new aircraft carrier will be added to the fleet.

eievar

June 10th, 2005, 10:30 PM

talking about ships...

june 28th will be commemorated in Portsmouth the Trafalgar battle. The principal event will be a international fleet review, a gathering of vessels from around the world. Trafalgar was a battle in front of Cape Trafalgar (Cadiz, Spain) in 1805 between the english fleet and a combinated fleet of spanish and french ships; thousands of people of the three countries were died, a lot of them during the storm the next days, when many damaged ships were sunk. This battle involved the definitive supremacy of the evil english (xDD) and the definitive end of the spanish empire as a global power.

www.trafalgar200.com

Some of the ships that participated in the battle:

Santisima Trinidad Spain. The biggest war ship of its time (4 bridges, 136 cannons), flagship of Rear Admiral Don Baltazar Hidalgo Cisneros

http://www.revistanaval.com/txemaprada/imagenes/wallpapers/sant-trinidad-R-wallpaper.jpg
http://www.icorso.com/gct8.jpg

San Juan Nepomuceno Spain (74 cannons). Ship of Brigadier Cosme Churruca

http://www.artehistoria.com/tienda/banco/jpg/HIB18778.jpg
http://www.historicships.com/TALLSHIPS/Latina/IMAGES/SAN_JUAN_NEPOMUCENO_AL20720.jpg

Victory England (100 cannons). Flagship of Admiral Horatio Nelson

http://www.ulmo.net/bateaux/victory/photos/victory-trafalgar-1.jpg

Bucentaure France (80 cannons). Flagship of Admiral Villeneuve

http://www.directart.co.uk/mall/images/dhm1289.jpg

chicagogeorge

June 10th, 2005, 10:31 PM

Some photos of the Greek Naval forces
http://www.hellas.org/military/navy/images/fleet-2.jpg
http://www.hellas.org/military/navy/images/fleet-3.jpg
http://www.hellas.org/military/navy/images/209-1.jpg
http://www.hellas.org/military/navy/images/comb3-4.jpg
http://www.hellas.org/military/navy/images/209-4.jpg
http://www.hellas.org/military/navy/images/kont-3.jpg
http://www.hellas.org/military/navy/images/kont-5.jpg
http://www.hellas.org/military/navy/images/meko-3.jpg
http://www.hellas.org/military/navy/images/meko-1.jpg
http://www.hellas.org/military/navy/images/knox-1.jpg
http://www.hellas.org/military/navy/images/adams-1.jpg
http://www.hellas.org/military/navy/images/adams-3.jpg
http://www.hellas.org/military/navy/images/armato-1.jpg
http://www.hellas.org/military/navy/images/thetis-2.jpg
http://www.hellas.org/military/navy/images/jason-1.jpg
http://www.strategy.gr/Photo%20Galery/NAVY/VLAXAVAS.jpg
http://www.strategy.gr/Photo%20Galery/NAVY/PONTOS.jpg
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/images/kosovo/deadlinegal/nato6.jpg
http://www.freewebs.com/gfile3/Greek%20Military%20Submarine.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/damianos/Myk.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/damianos/amph.jpg
http://twin.customer.netspace.net.au/pamk01.gif

http://www.freewebs.com/gfile3/Greek%20Military%20Special%20ops%20patrol%20boat.jpg

The Greeks will always be tied to the sea

ch1le

June 10th, 2005, 10:39 PM

http://www.geocities.com/damianos/Myk.jpg

this ship is Furious!

Fallout

June 10th, 2005, 11:45 PM

I added the Aviso in the Frigate subsection, even if they have a different purpose the closest in this list in Frigate and they are identified as those (F789 to F797).

Shouldn't these rather be corvettes?
I added some amphibious ships and 2 lithuanian corvettes and danish submarine to the list.

Aircraft Carriers:

1x Charles de Gaulle class (France)
3x Invincible class (UK)
1x Principe de Asturias class (Spain)
1x Garibaldi class (Italy)

Cruisers:

1x Jeanne d'Arc class (France)

Assault ships:

1x Ocean class (UK)
2x Albion class (UK)
2x Mistral class (France)
2x Foudre class (France)
3x San Giorgio class (Italy)
2x Galicia class (Spain)
2x Hernan Cortes class (Spain)
1x Rotterdam class (Netherlands)

Destroyers:

9x Type 42 (UK)
2x Horizon class (France)
2x Tourville class (France)
2x Cassard class (France)
7x Georges Leygues (France)
2x Horizon class (Italy)
2x Durand de la Penne class (Italy)
4x De Zeven Provincien class (Netherlands)

Frigates:

15x Type 23 (UK)
4x Type 22 (UK)
5x La Fayette class (France)
6x Floreal class (France)
10x Aviso class (France)
4x Artigliere class (Italy)
8x Maestrale class (Italy)
3x Sachsen class (Germany)
4x Brandenburg class (Germany)
8x Bremen class (Germany)
4x Alvaro de Bazan class (Spain)
6x Santa Maria class (Spain)
5x Baleares class (Spain)
4x Descubierta class (Spain)
8x Karel Doorman class (Netherlands)
2x Wielingen class (Belgium)
4x Thetis class (Denmark)
3x Vasco da Gama class (Portugal)
3x Joao Belo class (Portugal)
2x Oliver Hazard Perry class (Poland)
9x Kortenaer class (Greece)
4x Hydra class (Greece)

Corvettes:

8x Minerva class (Italy)
6x Visby class (Sweden)
3x Niels Juel class (Denmark)
3x Baptista de Andrade class (Portugal)
1x Kaszub class (Poland)
4x Tarantul class (Poland)
5x Thetis class (Greece)
2x Grisha III class (Lithuania)

Nuclear tactical submarines:

4x Vanguard class (UK)
4x Triomphant class (France)

Nuclear attack submarines:

4x Swiftsure class (UK)
7x Trafalgar class (UK)
6x Rubis class (France)

Diesel Submarines:

4x Type 212A (Germany)
8x Type 206A (Germany)
6x Nazario Sauro class (Italy)
4x Agosta class (Spain)
4x Daphne class (Spain)
4x Walrus class (Netherlands)
3x Gotland class (Sweden)
4x Vastergotland class (Sweden)
2x Nacken class (Sweden)
1x Nacken class (Denmark)
3x Daphne class (Portugal)
2x Type 209 (Portugal)
8x Type 209 (Greece)
1x Kilo class (Poland)
4x Kobben class (Poland)

Matthieu

June 10th, 2005, 11:56 PM

The F means Fregate though 80m long is more a corvette than a frigate indeed. Yeah, they should be moved to corvette.

Though the FREMM that will replace them are 140m long so it's confusing.

ASIMOV

June 11th, 2005, 12:30 AM

TURKISH (OTTOMAN) NAVY SUBMARINES

Abdülhamid class (1886)

http://wowturkey.com/tr51/Kazandibi_nordenfeld.jpg

Photo: Istanbul, Golden Horn, 1886

Müstecip Onbasi class (1908)

http://wowturkey.com/tr51/Kazandibi_turquoise1.jpg

Photo: Istanbul, Marmara Sea, 1915

ASIMOV

June 11th, 2005, 02:23 AM

Ning

June 11th, 2005, 03:28 AM

wow the Turkish army hasn't changed much since 1886 :D

Petronius

June 11th, 2005, 05:26 AM

The French Navy is just amazing :runaway:

but they wouldn't last a minute against Portugal for instance :D

Petronius

June 11th, 2005, 05:35 AM

MORE FROM PORTUGAL:

NRP BACAMARTE

Portuguese built

http://www.marinha.pt/NR/rdonlyres/9382920A-BEFA-4D8A-8949-6F12A50905FF/0/bacamarte_img3.jpg

http://www.marinha.pt/NR/rdonlyres/F553E5A0-21B3-410B-A357-CE6ED9681CF2/0/bacamarte_img2.jpg

http://www.marinha.pt/NR/rdonlyres/CAEB0A45-4E3B-4A57-A488-E27E56CB54BF/0/bacamarte_img4.jpg

http://www.marinha.pt/NR/rdonlyres/9F942EE0-69ED-417B-929C-974221C92D40/0/bacamarte_img5.jpg

Características
Deslocamento 650t
Comprimento 56,2m
Boca 11,8m
Calado 1,9m
Propulsão
2 motores MTU MB diesel 910hp
Velocidade Máxima 9,5nós
Autonomia 2600 milhas a 9 nós
Guarnição
Oficiais 3
Sargentos ?
Praças ?
Armamento e sensores
Oerlinkon 20mm 2
Radar de navegação Decca RM 316P 1

NRP BERRIO

UK built

http://www.marinha.pt/NR/rdonlyres/04D3B9CA-0168-48F4-A507-0B9C33EB9E0E/0/P0000827.JPG

http://www.marinha.pt/NR/rdonlyres/91416CA3-25E4-4A2D-AF45-42E0AC9E8DC0/0/P0000830.JPG

Características/Features
Deslocamento leve 4700t
Deslocamento máximo 11522t
Comprimento 140,6m
Boca 19,2m
Calado 7,3m
Capacidade de carga 6600t
Velocidade Máxima 19nós
Autonomia 15000m(15nós)
Propulsão/Motors
2 Motores Diesel SEMT 15.360hp
Armamento/Equipamento
2 Peça de Oerlikon 20mm
Peça de artilharia de 20mm
Radar de navegação KH 1006
Guarnição/Staff
Oficiais 7
Sargentos
Praças
Total

Petronius

June 11th, 2005, 05:41 AM

and you forgot this class of Portuguese Corvettes:

Class João Coutinho

(4 units)

Portugese built -1970's

Antonio Enes:

http://www.marinha.pt/NR/rdonlyres/3ACC10DC-CE2B-4165-8118-7685D2F05909/0/AntonioEnesNavio02.jpg

http://www.marinha.pt/NR/rdonlyres/530D0F91-9306-48D3-B887-655A1F28C9CD/0/antEnes3.gif

http://www.marinha.pt/NR/rdonlyres/D3DDA464-7719-493F-A9B6-B8B1723414A1/0/AntónioEnesNavio01.jpg

Características
Deslocamento 1380t
Comprimento 85m
Boca máxima 10,3m
Calado 3,3m
Velocidade Máximo 22nós
Autonomia 5900 milhas(18nós)
Propulsão
2 Motores OEW Pielstick 12 Pc2.2 V 400 Diesel 12.000hp
Armamento e sensores
1 reparo duplo de 76mm US Mk33
1 reparo duplo Bofors de 40mm/60
1 radar de navegação KH1007
1 radar de navegação RM 1226C
Guarnição
Oficiais 7
Sargentos 14
Praças 51

Petronius

June 11th, 2005, 05:44 AM

so this would be an updated list:

Aircraft Carriers:

1x Charles de Gaulle class (France)
3x Invincible class (UK)
1x Principe de Asturias class (Spain)
1x Garibaldi class (Italy)

Assault ships:

1x Ocean class (UK)
2x Albion class (UK)
2x Mistral class (France)
2x Foudre class (France)
1x Rotterdam class (Netherlands)

Destroyers:

9x Type 42 (UK)
2x Horizon class (France)
2x Tourville class (France)
2x Horizon class (Italy)
2x Durand de la Penne class (Italy)
4x De Zeven Provincien class (Netherlands)

Frigates:

15x Type 23 (UK)
4x Type 22 (UK)
5x La Fayette class (France)
6x Floreal class (France)
2x Cassard class (France)
7x Georges Leygues (France)
4x Artigliere class (Italy)
8x Maestrale class (Italy)
3x Sachsen class (Germany)
4x Brandenburg class (Germany)
8x Bremen class (Germany)
4x Alvaro de Bazan class (Spain)
6x Santa Maria class (Spain)
5x Baleares class (Spain)
4x Descubierta class (Spain)
8x Karel Doorman class (Netherlands)
2x Wielingen class (Belgium)
4x Thetis class (Denmark)
3x Vasco da Gama class (Portugal)
3x Joao Belo class (Portugal)
2x Oliver Hazard Perry class (Poland)
9x Kortenaer class (Greece)
4x Hydra class (Greece)

Corvettes:

8x Minerva class (Italy)
6x Visby class (Sweden)
3x Niels Juel class (Denmark)
3x Baptista de Andrade class (Portugal)
1x Kaszub class (Poland)
4x Tarantul class (Poland)
5x Thetis class (Greece)
4x João Coutinho (Portugal)

Nuclear attack submarines:

4x Vanguard class (UK)
4x Triomphant class (France)

Nuclear attack submarines:

4x Swiftsure class (UK)
7x Trafalgar class (UK)
6x Rubis class (France)

Diesel Submarines:

4x Type 212A (Germany)
8x Type 206A (Germany)
6x Nazario Sauro class (Italy)
4x Agosta class (Spain)
4x Daphne class (Spain)
4x Walrus class (Netherlands)
3x Gotland class (Sweden)
4x Vastergotland class (Sweden)
2x Nacken class (Sweden)
3x Daphne class (Portugal)
2x Type 209 (Portugal)
8x Type 209 (Greece)
1x Kilo class (Poland)
4x Kobben class (Poland)

Petronius

June 11th, 2005, 05:48 AM

sorry this should be the list:

Aircraft Carriers:

1x Charles de Gaulle class (France)
3x Invincible class (UK)
1x Principe de Asturias class (Spain)
1x Garibaldi class (Italy)

Cruisers:

1x Jeanne d'Arc class (France)

Assault ships:

1x Ocean class (UK)
2x Albion class (UK)
2x Mistral class (France)
2x Foudre class (France)
3x San Giorgio class (Italy)
2x Galicia class (Spain)
2x Hernan Cortes class (Spain)
1x Rotterdam class (Netherlands)

Destroyers:

9x Type 42 (UK)
2x Horizon class (France)
2x Tourville class (France)
2x Cassard class (France)
7x Georges Leygues (France)
2x Horizon class (Italy)
2x Durand de la Penne class (Italy)
4x De Zeven Provincien class (Netherlands)

Frigates:

15x Type 23 (UK)
4x Type 22 (UK)
5x La Fayette class (France)
6x Floreal class (France)
10x Aviso class (France)
4x Artigliere class (Italy)
8x Maestrale class (Italy)
3x Sachsen class (Germany)
4x Brandenburg class (Germany)
8x Bremen class (Germany)
4x Alvaro de Bazan class (Spain)
6x Santa Maria class (Spain)
5x Baleares class (Spain)
4x Descubierta class (Spain)
8x Karel Doorman class (Netherlands)
2x Wielingen class (Belgium)
4x Thetis class (Denmark)
3x Vasco da Gama class (Portugal)
3x Joao Belo class (Portugal)
2x Oliver Hazard Perry class (Poland)
9x Kortenaer class (Greece)
4x Hydra class (Greece)

Corvettes:

8x Minerva class (Italy)
6x Visby class (Sweden)
3x Niels Juel class (Denmark)
3x Baptista de Andrade class (Portugal)
1x Kaszub class (Poland)
4x Tarantul class (Poland)
5x Thetis class (Greece)
2x Grisha III class (Lithuania)
4x João Coutinho class(Portugal)

Nuclear tactical submarines:

4x Vanguard class (UK)
4x Triomphant class (France)

Nuclear attack submarines:

4x Swiftsure class (UK)
7x Trafalgar class (UK)
6x Rubis class (France)

Diesel Submarines:

4x Type 212A (Germany)
8x Type 206A (Germany)
6x Nazario Sauro class (Italy)
4x Agosta class (Spain)
4x Daphne class (Spain)
4x Walrus class (Netherlands)
3x Gotland class (Sweden)
4x Vastergotland class (Sweden)
2x Nacken class (Sweden)
1x Nacken class (Denmark)
3x Daphne class (Portugal)
2x Type 209 (Portugal)
8x Type 209 (Greece)
1x Kilo class (Poland)
4x Kobben class (Poland)[/QUOTE]

nick_taylor

June 11th, 2005, 06:36 AM

I saw the other day the launch of the bow of the first of the six Type 45 the other day...pretty amazing that the first 1/3 is totally complete, while the other 2/3's will be completed up in Glasgow (bow being shipped all the way on barges).

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40606000/jpg/_40606570_navy_bow203.jpg

Also does anyone have any more news on the RV Triton...

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/trimaran/images/Triton3.jpg

Its the first of the future designs of Royal Navy ships if all goes according to plan, alas I have not heard anything of it recently!

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/trimaran/images/tri1.jpg

http://navy-matters.beedall.com/imagesbig/tri-fleet.jpg

:laugh:

KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

June 11th, 2005, 08:37 AM

The Hellenic Navy

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/upload/GEN.jpg

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/upload/wallpapers/1024/wallpaper02.jpg

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/upload/wallpapers/1024/wallpaper01.jpg

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/upload/wallpapers/1024/wallpaper05.jpg

~FRIGATES~

Class Meko-200HN

-FFG HYDRA-

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/upload/Fg%20Ydra.jpg

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/images/Ships/F-452_right.JPG

-FFG SPETSAI-

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/upload/Fg%20Spetses.jpg

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/Ships%20Photos/F-453.JPG

-FFG PSARA-

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/upload/Fg%20Psara.jpg

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/Ships%20Photos/F-454.JPG

-FFG SALAMIS-

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/upload/Fg%20Salamis.jpg

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/images/Ships/F-455_top.JPG

Class Standard

-FFG ELLI-

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/upload/Fg%20Elli.jpg

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/Ships%20Photos/F-450.JPG

-FFG LIMNOS-

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/upload/Fg%20Limnos.jpg

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/Ships%20Photos/F-451.JPG

-FFG ADRIAS-

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/upload/Fg%20Adrias.jpg

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/Ships%20Photos/F-459.JPG

-FFG AEGEON-

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/upload/Fg%20Aigaion.jpg

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/Ships%20Photos/F-460.JPG

-FFG NAVARINON-

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/upload/Fg%20Navarino.jpg

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/images/ships/F-461_2.jpg

-FFG KOUNTOURIOTIS-

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/upload/Fg%20Kountouriotis.jpg

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/Ships%20Photos/F-462.JPG

-FFG BOUBOULINA-

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/upload/Fg%20Mpoumpou.jpg

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/Ships%20Photos/F-463.JPG

-FFG KANARIS-

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/upload/Fg%20Kanaris.jpg

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/Ships%20Photos/F-464.JPG

-FFG THEMISTOKLIS-

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/images/ships/F-465_thireos.jpg

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/images/ships/F-465_2.jpg

-FFG NIKIFOROS FOKAS-

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/images/ships/F-466_thireos_big.jpg

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/images/ships/F-466_03.JPG

all pics are from the official website of the Hellenic Navy (http://www.hellenicnavy.gr)

Matthieu

June 11th, 2005, 12:27 PM

The upcomming Barracuda class, 6 units scheduled to replace the 6 Amethyste class.

http://www.dcn.fr/us/produits/img/sna_barracuda_visu2.jpg

The French government has assigned DCN the task of designing a new-generation nuclear-powered attack submarine known as the Barracuda. Barracuda SSNs (French designation SNA) will be a key component of the French Navy's force projection and ocean control arsenal.

Remarkably stealthy and armed with cruise missiles, they will be ideal for special operations and deep strike missions. The nuclear propulsion system will draw on those developed for current generation SSNs and SSBNs and for the Charles de Gaulle to offer reliability, speed and endurance.

* anti-surface and anti-submarine warfare
* land attack
* intelligence gathering
* crisis management
* special operations

http://www.defense.gouv.fr/portal_repository/289481559__0001/fichier/getData

Matthieu

June 11th, 2005, 12:34 PM

The upcomming FREMM class, will replace the Georges Leygues class and the Avisos:

17 are ordered by France and 10 by Italy.

http://www.dcn.fr/us/produits/img/fregate_fremm_visu2.jpg

FREMM frigates are a new generation of multirole stealth vessels that can be tailored for:

* anti-air warfare (AAW)
* anti-submarine warfare (ASW)
* anti-surface warfare (ASuW)
* deep land strikes.

The high-performance combat system puts FREMM frigates among the most advanced ever designed.

The contract for the FREMM design definition phase has been signed. Armaris (a joint subsidiary of DCN and Thales) and Italian partner Orizzonte Sistemi Navali (a joint subsidiary of Fincantieri and Finmeccanica) will act as co-prime contractors for the design definition phase. DCN and Orizzonte will also act as the co-chief design bureaux. The French Navy has ordered 17 FREMM frigates and the Italian Navy ten. The first vessels are scheduled for delivery in 2008.

> Fire power
> Interoperability
> New standard in modular, multirole design
> Advanced network architecture
> Unprecedented availability

Leading the way in programme prime contracting

Matthieu

June 11th, 2005, 12:37 PM

And the next aircraft carrier, will just add to the fleet and won't replace the Charles de Gaulle.

It will be 284m long (CdG is 261m long).

http://www.dcn.fr/us/produits/img/romeo.jpg

A conventional-propulsion aircraft carrier to meet the French Navy's needs

As the centrepiece of a carrier group, an aircraft carrier must be able to:

* control the air and sea over a wide area
* lead force projection operations against land and maritime targets
* contribute to "final warning" as part of France's nuclear deterrent policy
* act alone or alongside allied or coalition forces.

> Fully optimized floating air base
> Ideal for industrial cooperation
> New concept in carrier availability
> Reduced crewing and improved living conditions

Falcon83

June 11th, 2005, 12:42 PM

New aircraft carrier "Cavour"

http://www.marina.difesa.it/programmi/images/fotografie/doria/doria03.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/programmi/images/fotografie/doria/doria02.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/programmi/images/DORIA02.JPG

http://www.marina.difesa.it/programmi/images/doria01.JPG

http://www.marina.difesa.it/programmi/images/DORIA03.JPG

http://www.marina.difesa.it/programmi/images/DORIA04.JPG

http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2004/cavour2/images/01.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2004/cavour2/images/02.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2004/cavour2/images/03.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2004/cavour2/images/04.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2004/cavour2/images/05.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2004/cavour2/images/06.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2004/cavour2/images/08.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2004/cavour2/images/10.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2004/cavour2/images/11.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2004/cavour2/images/12.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2004/cavour2/images/13.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2004/cavour2/images/14.jpg

New major warship aircraft carrier CAVOUR
It will become major warship of Italian Navy in 2007.
It will be larger than G. Garibaldi, will be able carry aircraft STOVL/VSTOL type JSF or AV8B +, and helicopters type EH101, NH90, SH3D and more than 350 LAGUNARI (Italians marines with their own equipment).
In alternative it will be able carry 100 trucks or 24 main battle tank ARIETE (60 tonn each one) or 50 minor battle tank DARDO or LVPT7.

CAVOUR AIRCRAFT CARRIER, ITALY

On 22 November 2000, a contract was drawn up between Fincantieri and the Italian Ministry of Naval Defence to supply an aircraft carrier vessel, known as the Nuova Unita Maggiore (NUM) or "New Major Vessel", to the Italian Navy. Building work on the new vessel, which was originally to be called the Andrea Doria but has since been named the Cavour, began at Fincantieri's shipyards in Riva Trigoso and Muggiano in July 2001. The Cavour was launched in July 2004 and the aircraft carrier will be delivered in 2007, entering service in 2008.
CAVOUR AIRCRAFT CARRIER DESIGN

The ship has a standard displacement at full load of 27,100t, an overall length of 244m and a sustained speed of 27 knots. It can accommodate up to 1,210 people on board, including ship's crew of 451, 203 aircrew, an amphibious command force of 140, and San Marco Battalion of 325, plus an extra 91 troops if required.

A strong feature of the ship is its high flexibility in operational terms. It is able to carry out the functions of an aircraft carrier as well as the transport of wheeled and tracked vehicles, for both military and civil missions. The aircraft hangar can accommodate 100 light vehicles or 24 main battle tanks for amphibious missions. The ship can also support four LCVP landing craft.
AIRCRAFT CARRIER FUNCTION

The vessel is equipped with a flight deck suitable both for operations with helicopters and with short launch, vertical take-off fighter planes. It has a hangar/garage of approximately 2,500m² which can also accommodate wheeled and tracked land vehicles.

The ship can support eight VTOL (vertical take-off and landing) aircraft such as AV-8B Harrier or F-35 joint strike fighter VTOL variant, or 12 helicopters, such as the EH101, NH 90 or SH-3D, or a mix of platforms. Landing operations will be supported by the Telephonics AN/SPN-41A radio frequency all-weather instrument approach landing system and the Galileo Avionica SPN-720 advanced precision approach radar.

For the purposes of moving aircraft and vehicles embarked, two elevators are installed for aircraft and there will be two access ramps to move vehicles from the quayside to the hangar / garage.

Further features of the ship include a hospital facility with three operating rooms, wards for hospitalised patients, X ray and CT equipment, a dentist's surgery and a laboratory.
CAVOUR AIRCRAFT CARRIER WEAPONS

The carrier is armed with two Sylver eight-cell vertical launch systems for the Eurosam (jointly owned by MBDA and Thales) SAAM/IT missile system, which fires Aster 15 missiles. The Aster 15 missile has a 13kg warhead and a range of 30km. The missile’s guidance is inertial with data uplink and active radar terminal homing. For increased manoeuvrability in the terminal phase, the missile uses a 'PIF-PAF' direct thrust control system with gas jets. Primary sensor for the SAAM/IT is the AMS Empar G-band multi-function phased array radar, which provides simultaneous surveillance, tracking and weapons control. First ship-launched missile firing of the SAAM/IT system took place in December 2002.

The vessel will be equipped with two Oto Melara 76mm Super Rapid guns and three 25mm anti-aircraft guns.
CAVOUR AIRCRAFT CARRIER COMBAT SYSTEMS

Alenia Marconi Systems (AMS) will be the integrator for the vessel’s combat system and will also supply systems including RAN 40L 3D D-band long range radar, RASS surveillance radar, IFF and navigation system. Other members of the combat system team include Elettronica, Galileo Avionica and Oto Melara.

Other systems include mine avoidance sonar and anti-torpedo towed array sonar, electronic support system (ESM), two radar / electro-optic fire control systems and an infrared surveillance system.
CAVOUR AIRCRAFT CARRIER PROPULSION SYSTEMS

The Cavour is powered by combined gas turbine and gas (COGAG) propulsion. The four LM2500 gas turbines, developing 22,000kW each, are manufactured by FiatAvio of Turin under a license agreement from the US company, General Electric (GE). The four turbines drive two gear units which provide 60,000shp each.

Auxiliary power is provided by six Wartsila CW 12V200 generating sets, rated at 2,200kW each. Two shaft generators are rated at 2,200kW each.

The vessel is fitted with two pairs of active stabilising fins and twin rudders and has bow and stern thrusters.

Matthieu

June 11th, 2005, 12:46 PM

Penis sizes

Carriers:

Next carrier: 284m
Charles de Gaulles: 261m

Cruisers:

Jeanne d'Arc: 182m

Assault ships:

Mistral: 199m
Foudre: 168m

Destroyers:

Tourville: 152m
Forbin (Horizon): 152m
Georges Leygues: 139m

Fregates:

La Fayette: 125m
Floréal: 93m (should those be moved to corvette?)
Aviso: 80m (same question)
FREMM: 134m

Tactical subs:

Triomphant: 138m

Attack subs:

Amethyste: 73,6m
Barracuda: 97m

Matthieu

June 11th, 2005, 12:47 PM

New aircraft carrier "Cavour"

Will it replace another ship, or will it be added to the fleet?

Falcon83

June 11th, 2005, 12:47 PM

http://www.marina.difesa.it/programmi/images/orizzonte01.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/programmi/images/orizzonte02.gif

http://www.marina.difesa.it/programmi/images/orizzonte03.gif

Frigates ORIZZONTE
These frigates born from a common project of Great Britain, France and Italy.

In the 2000 G.B. decide of get out to going on alone, so after some month valuations Italy and France decide of start again and closer together the project.

Frigates ORIZZONTE will take place of Italians destroyers Audace, Ardito and France Suffren, Duquesne.

Difference between France and Italians is only about 10%, main armament of each frigate is a missile system ASTER (missile anti-missile by Italian ALENIA and France MATRA) which is already incorporated in to France nuclear aircraft carrier C. De Gaulle and that will be installed on the new aircraft Cavour too.

Bender

June 11th, 2005, 12:47 PM

And the next aircraft carrier, will just add to the fleet and won't replace the Charles de Gaulle.

It will be 284m long (CdG is 261m long).

When will they start to build it?

It's strange that they don't just make a copy of the CdG (possibly without the nuclear propulsion)

Matthieu

June 11th, 2005, 12:51 PM

When will they start to build it?

It's strange that they don't just make a copy of the CdG (possibly without the nuclear propulsion)

Aside the propulsion, they'll built another completly different ship. I didn't include it in the ship list because it's a longer term, like the Barracuda, FREMM and the last Horizon. Those are 2010 at least, and the carrier might be even for 2015. They don't communicate a lot, on those.

The other upcomming ship I listed are either already in construction and soon to work, or are finished and just wait some more test (Mistral, first 2 Horizon, The last Triomphant).

Falcon83

June 11th, 2005, 12:53 PM

It will replace the Garibaldi (the bigger under) in the future

http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2004/basetaranto/images/img02.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2004/basetaranto/images/img07.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2004/basetaranto/images/img08.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2004/basetaranto/images/img09.jpg

http://www.tinypic.com/5vvcqx

Fallout

June 11th, 2005, 12:56 PM

^^
http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2004/basetaranto/images/img08.jpg

I see two carriers on this picture. What is the second one?

Falcon83

June 11th, 2005, 01:00 PM

^ it's an helicopter carrier in the new Taranto military harbour but I don't rimember the name.

Falcon83

June 11th, 2005, 01:03 PM

the new Cavour will have a "garage" under, with the water inside like this ship:
San Giusto:

http://www.marina.difesa.it/unita/pagine/navi/sangiusto/images/NAVE05.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/unita/pagine/navi/sangiusto/images/NAVE04.png

http://www.marina.difesa.it/unita/pagine/navi/sangiusto/images/NAVE03.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/unita/pagine/navi/sangiusto/images/NAVE.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/unita/pagine/navi/sangiusto/images/NAVE01.png

http://www.marina.difesa.it/unita/pagine/navi/sangiusto/images/Hangar.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/attivita/svolta/2003/protezione/images/foto11.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/attivita/svolta/2003/protezione/images/foto12.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/attivita/svolta/2003/protezione/images/foto

Ringil

June 11th, 2005, 01:04 PM

@Pedro, Denmark no longer have any Nacken/Näcken subs and i dont no if we got any left either. It was built 1978 so...

swedish subs today,
http://www.subnetitalia.it/aipkochum.jpg
http://www.silent.se/bilder/gotland.jpg
The Gotland class submarines, the only subs which can operate in shallow waters
HMS Gotland (in San Diego right now)
HMS Uppland
HMS Halland

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/gotland/

http://homepage.eircom.net/~steven/images/vastergotland.jpg
Västergötland class, 10 years older then the Gotland class, built in 1987-1990
HMS Västergötland
HMS Hälsingland
HMS Södermanland
HMS Östergötland

The next generation of swedish subs
http://www.kockums.se/Submarines/Resources/vikingstor.jpeg
the Viking class was a Swedish/Danish project but the danes withdrew so it was cancelled but now the swedish navy is working on a new sub called A26, but i dont know a shit about it. The only thing i know is that it will "look" like the Viking and that it will be more advanced. They'll strt build them in 2-5 years.
"the viking class" (http://www.kockums.se/Submarines/viking.html)

Falcon83

June 11th, 2005, 01:09 PM

U-212A italian-german project, first submarine S. Todaro:

http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2003/todaro/images/todaro01.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2003/todaro/images/todaro02.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2003/todaro/images/todaro04.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2003/todaro/images/todaro12.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2003/todaro/images/todaro19.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2003/todaro/images/todaro20.jpg

Matthieu

June 11th, 2005, 01:19 PM

Naval planes:

The Rafale

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/rafale/

RAFALE - MULTIROLE COMBAT FIGHTER, FRANCE

Rafale is a twin-jet combat aircraft capable of carrying out a wide range of short- and long-range missions, including ground and sea attack, air defence and air superiority, reconnaissance and high-accuracy strike or nuclear strike deterrence.

The aircraft has been developed for the French Air Force and Navy. 61 aircraft were ordered (36 for the Air Force and 25 for the Navy) and in September 2004, a further 59 aircraft (11 two-seater and 36 single-seat for the Air Force and 12 Rafale M for the Navy, delivery 2008-12) out of a total requirement of around 300 (234 for the Air Force and 60 for the Navy) were ordered. The Rafale is produced in three variants, M, B and C. The Rafale M variant is a single-seater carrier-based version for the navy, B and C are two-seater and single-seater variants for the Air Force. The Rafale M entered service in 2001 and ten have been delivered. Seven aircraft are operational on the Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier. Two Rafale B aircraft have been delivered to the Air Force. Rafale B and C will enter service in 2005.

Rafale fighters delivered to the Navy so far are F1 standard with air-to-air capability. F2 standard with air-to-ground missiles will begin an initial testing phase at Mont-de-Marsan military flight test center from September 2004. A contract to develop the fully capable F3 standard aircraft with terrain-following RBE2 3D radar, RECO NG optronics pod and capability to launch ASMP-A nuclear missiles and AM39 Exocet anti-ship missiles was signed in February 2004. The Rafale F3 will be delivered from 2007 and the first squadron of 20 aircraft will be in service in 2008.

COCKPIT

The cockpit has Hands-On-Throttle-And-Stick (HOTAS) control. The cockpit is equipped with a head-up wide-angle holographic display from Sextant Avionique, which provides aircraft control data, mission data and firing cues. A collimated multi-image head-level display presents tactical situation and sensor data, and two touch-screen lateral displays show the aircraft system parameters and mission data. The pilot also has a helmet mounted sight and display. A CCD camera and on-board recorder records the image of the head up display throughout the mission.

WEAPONS

The Rafale can carry payloads of over 9t on 14 hardpoints for the air force version and 13 for the naval version. The range of weapons includes Mica, Magic, Sidewinder, ASRAAM and AMRAAM air-to-air missiles; Apache, AS30L, ALARM, HARM, Maverick and PGM100 air-to-ground missiles; and Exocet/AM39, Penguin 3 and Harpoon anti-ship missiles. For a strategic mission, the Rafale can deliver the MBDA (formerly Aerospatiale) ASMP stand-off nuclear missile. Main weapons are expected to be the MBDA (formerly Matra BAe Dynamics) MICA air-to-air missile, MBDA Storm Shadow/Scalp EG stand-off cruise missile and the MBDA (Aerospatiale) AS 30 laser-guided missile.

From 2006, the Rafale will also be armed with the Sagem AASM precision-guided bomb, which has both GPS/inertial guidance and, optionally, imaging infrared terminal guidance.

The Rafale has a twin gun pod and a GIAT 30mm DEFA 791B cannon which can fire 2500 rounds/min.

The Rafale is equipped with laser designation pods for laser guidance of air-to-ground missiles.

COUNTERMEASURES

The Rafale's electronic warfare system is the Spectra from Thomson-CSF. Spectra incorporates solid state transmitter technology, radar warner, DAL laser warning receiver, missile warning, detection systems and jammers.

SENSORS

The Rafale is equipped with an RBE2 radar developed by Thomson-CSF and Dassault Electronique which has look-down and shoot-down capability. The radar can track up to eight targets simultaneously and provides threat identification and prioritisation.

The optronic systems include the Thomson-CSF/SAGEM OSF infrared search and track system installed in the nose of the aircraft. The optronic suite carries out search, target identification, telemetry, and automatic target discrimination and tracking.

NAVIGATION AND COMMUNICATIONS

The communications suite on the Rafale uses the Saturn onboard V/UHF radio which is a second generation anti-jam tactical UHF radio for NATO. Saturn provides voice encryption in fast frequency hopping mode. The aircraft is also equipped with fixed frequency VHF/UHF radio for communications with civil air traffic control. A MIDS (Multi-function Information Distribution System) terminal provides secure high data rate tactical data exchange with NATO C2 stations, AWACS aircraft or naval ships.

Rafale is equipped with a Thomson-CSF TLS 2000 navigation receiver which is used for the approach phase of flight. The TLS 2000 integrates the Instrument Landing System (ILS), Microwave Landing System (MLS) and VHF Omnidirectional Radio-ranger (VOR) and Marker functions.

The radar altimeter is the AHV 17 altimeter from Thomson CSF which is suitable for very low flight. The Rafale has a TACAN tactical air navigation receiver for en route navigation and as a landing aid.

The Rafale has an SB25A combined interrogator-transponder developed by Thomson-CSF. The SB25A is the first IFF using electronic scanning technology.

ENGINE

The Rafale is powered by two M88-2 engines from SNECMA, each providing a thrust of 75kN. The aircraft is equipped for buddy-buddy refuelling with a flight refuelling hose reel and drogue pack.

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/rafale/images/rafale_2.jpg

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/rafale/images/rafale_10.jpg

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/rafale/images/rafale_7.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/aero/aeronefs/rafale/photos.htm

http://www.netmarine.net/aero/aeronefs/rafale/photo14.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/aero/aeronefs/rafale/photo27.jpg

Fallout

June 11th, 2005, 01:44 PM

so that would be:

Aircraft Carriers:

1x Charles de Gaulle class (France)
3x Invincible class (UK)
1x Principe de Asturias class (Spain)
1x Garibaldi class (Italy)

Cruisers:

1x Jeanne d'Arc class (France)

Assault ships:

1x Ocean class (UK)
2x Albion class (UK)
2x Mistral class (France)
2x Foudre class (France)
3x San Giorgio class (Italy)
2x Galicia class (Spain)
2x Hernan Cortes class (Spain)
1x Rotterdam class (Netherlands)

Destroyers:

9x Type 42 (UK)
2x Horizon class (France)
2x Tourville class (France)
2x Cassard class (France)
7x Georges Leygues (France)
2x Horizon class (Italy)
2x Durand de la Penne class (Italy)
4x De Zeven Provincien class (Netherlands)

Frigates:

15x Type 23 (UK)
4x Type 22 (UK)
5x La Fayette class (France)
6x Floreal class (France)
4x Artigliere class (Italy)
8x Maestrale class (Italy)
3x Sachsen class (Germany)
4x Brandenburg class (Germany)
8x Bremen class (Germany)
4x Alvaro de Bazan class (Spain)
6x Santa Maria class (Spain)
5x Baleares class (Spain)
4x Descubierta class (Spain)
8x Karel Doorman class (Netherlands)
2x Wielingen class (Belgium)
4x Thetis class (Denmark)
3x Vasco da Gama class (Portugal)
3x Joao Belo class (Portugal)
2x Oliver Hazard Perry class (Poland)
9x Kortenaer class (Greece)
4x Hydra class (Greece)

Corvettes:

10x Aviso class (France)
8x Minerva class (Italy)
6x Visby class (Sweden)
3x Niels Juel class (Denmark)
3x Baptista de Andrade class (Portugal)
4x João Coutinho class(Portugal)
1x Kaszub class (Poland)
4x Tarantul class (Poland)
5x Thetis class (Greece)
2x Grisha III class (Lithuania)

Nuclear tactical submarines:

4x Vanguard class (UK)
4x Triomphant class (France)

Nuclear attack submarines:

4x Swiftsure class (UK)
7x Trafalgar class (UK)
6x Rubis class (France)

Diesel Submarines:

4x Type 212A (Germany)
8x Type 206A (Germany)
6x Nazario Sauro class (Italy)
4x Agosta class (Spain)
4x Daphne class (Spain)
4x Walrus class (Netherlands)
3x Gotland class (Sweden)
4x Vastergotland class (Sweden)
3x Daphne class (Portugal)
2x Type 209 (Portugal)
8x Type 209 (Greece)
1x Kilo class (Poland)
4x Kobben class (Poland)

Unfortunately Poland has other things to do, than working on super duper new ship projects. The only one I've found is "Gawron" class corvette. The ship is under construction for some 2-3 years now, so either the project was abandoned or Polish Navy wants to set a new record in "longest built ship" category.

This is how it will look, if it is completed:

http://www.warshipsifr.com/media/corvette.jpg

Falcon83

June 11th, 2005, 01:45 PM

JSF F-35B stovl

It will replace the AV-8B (harrier) on the italian aircraft carriers:

Following an intense four-year competition, the U.S. Department of Defense on 26 October 2001, named the Lockheed Martin lead Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) team as the winner of the contract to develop the F-35 JSF. The F-35 team immediately entered the program’s 10-year System Development and Demonstration (SDD) phase.
Boeing X-32A and Lockheed X-35A at Edwards Air Force Base. Photo by John B. Carnett.
Boeing X-32A and Lockheed X-35A at Edwards Air Force Base. Photo by John B. Carnett.

The SDD period involves the development and testing of the entire aircraft system, including its manufacture. During SDD, the team will build a total of 22 test aircraft. Fourteen will undergo flight-testing, seven will be used for non-airborne test activities, and one will be used to evaluate the F-35’s radar signature.

Nine nations are partnering in the F-35’s SDD phase: The United States, United Kingdom, Italy, the Netherlands, Turkey, Canada, Denmark, Norway and Australia. Partnership in SDD entitles those countries to bid for work on a best value basis, and participate in the aircraft’s development. Additionally, Israel and Singapore have agreed to join the program as a Security Cooperation Participants.

Lockheed Martin is the F-35 prime contractor, while Northrop Grumman and BAE Systems are principal partners in the project.

Final assembly of the F-35 will take place at Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company in Fort Worth, Texas. Northrop Grumman Corporation in Palmdale and El Segundo, California will manufacture the center-fuselage, and the aft fuselage and tails will be manufactured by BAE Systems in Samlesbury, England. Lockheed Martin in Fort Worth will manufacture the forward fuselage and wings.

Flight-testing will be conducted at Fort Worth, Edwards Air Force Base, and Naval Air Station Patuxent River. Additionally, the STOVL and CV variants will undergo sea trials aboard American, British and Italian aircraft carriers.

The stovl version:

http://www.tinypic.com/5vrqsw

Falcon83

June 11th, 2005, 01:47 PM

@Look:

you can add the Cavour to the list, it's almost ready!

Matthieu

June 11th, 2005, 01:53 PM

@Look:

you can add the Cavour to the list, it's almost ready!

Well, then he should remove the Garibaldi (I didn't include ships on the way to be replaced by almost ready Mistrals and Horizos)

Falcon83

June 11th, 2005, 01:57 PM

The Garibaldi will be removed in 2010.

ASIMOV

June 11th, 2005, 01:58 PM

Abdülhamid class submarines (1886)

http://wowturkey.com/tr51/Kazandibi_abdulhamidveabdulmecid.jpg

BUILDER: Des Vignes, Chertsey, London

DISPLACEMENT: Surface 100t, submerged 160t

DIMENSIONS: Loa 30.5m, B 3.6m

HULL: Steel

MACHINERY: Steam, 1 shaft

ENGINE: 1-Lamm locomotive type, 250ihp

BOILER: 1 cyl.

SPEED: Surface 6kts, submerged 4kts

BUNKERS: 8t coal

COMPLEMENT: 7

ARMAMENT: 2 TT 356mm (WH) (2), 2-35mm MG (N)

SUBMARINES OF THIS CLASS IN THE OTTOMAN NAVY

Abdülhamid (1886)

Ordered: 23.1.1886
Launched: 6.9.1886

Built as Nordenfeld-2 in sections, fitted by Tersane-i Amire shipyards in Istanbul.

Abdülmecid (1887)

Ordered: 23.1.1886
Launched: 4.8.1887

Built as Nordenfeld-3 in sections, fitted by Tersane-i Amire shipyards in Istanbul.

http://wowturkey.com/tr51/Kazandibi_nordenfeld.jpg

Photo: Abdülhamid on the Golden Horn, Istanbul, 1886

Turkish Navy uses submarines since 1886 (119 years) which make it one of the oldest submarine forces in the world.

Just like Turkish Air Force (1911) is one of the oldest in the world

(The first war in history in which airplanes were used: Italo-Turkish War (1911-12))

TURKISH NAVY TODAY

Frigates :
· MEKO 200 - TRACK II B Class
· MEKO 200 - TRACK II A Class
· MEKO-200 - TRACK I Class
· Perry Class

Destroyers :
· Berk Class
· Knox Class

Submarines :
· Preveze Class
· Type 209 Class
· Tang Class
· Guppy IIA Class
· Agosta 90B Class

Large Missile Ships:
· Kılıc Class
· Yıldız Class
· Dogan Class
· Jaguar Class

Mine Sweeping/Hunting/Laying :
· Nusret Class
· Circe Class
· Adjutant Class
· Vegasack Class
· Cove Class

Landing Ships:
· Bayraktar Class
· Ertuğrul Class
· Sarucabey Class
· Osmangazi Class
· Ç-117 Class
· Ç-302 Class

Fast Patrol Boats :
· Hisar Class
· Aviso Class
· Asheville Class
· "Girne" Class
· Bay (T) Class
· PGM 71 Class

Training Vessels:
· Rhein Class

Fleet Support Ships and Tankers:
· Akar Class (AOR)
· Albay Hakkı Burak Class
· Bnb.Sadettin Gürcan Class
· İnebolu Class
· Taşkızak Class
· Karadeniz Ereğli Class
· Şarköy Class
· Söğüt Class
· Van Class
· Eceabat Class

Logistics and Salvage:
· Iskenderun Class
· Chaticleer Class
· Vegesack Class
· Darıca Class
· Cherokee Class
· Akbaş Class (SNS Yawa Class-Russia)
· Değirmendere Class
· Aksaz Class
· Diver Class

Research Ships:
· Silas Class
· Çubuklu Class
· Deney Class

http://www.pinmuhendislik.com/images/ddgemi.jpg

http://www.pinmuhendislik.com/images/ddgperry.jpg

http://www.pinmuhendislik.com/images/ddknox.jpg

http://www.pinmuhendislik.com/images/ddkilic.jpg

http://www.pinmuhendislik.com/images/dddalt.jpg

http://www.pinmuhendislik.com/images/ddokul.jpg

Fallout

June 11th, 2005, 02:06 PM

Are there any plans for aircraft carrier in Gemany? KMS "Gerhard Schroeder"? :D

Falcon83

June 11th, 2005, 02:09 PM

why germans are without aircraft carriers? They have a good tradition about war ships, especially submarines!

Mike

June 11th, 2005, 02:52 PM

why germans are without aircraft carriers? They have a good tradition about war ships, especially submarines!

Aircraft carriers are attack weapons, they allow you to "project" your power beyond your own nation's borders. Germany has since WW2 adhered to a rule which allows only defensive weapons, a definition which is essentially bound to the range of a weapon. I.e. Germany doesn't have tankers to refule jets, nor does it have ballistic missiles. In the last years though this rule seems to be broken more and more due to German participation in NATO "out of border" missions.

Falcon83

June 11th, 2005, 03:04 PM

in Italy we had the same problems (we lost the WWII too) but we have aircraft carriers, tankers to refule jets and balistic missiles. I think those rules can be broken.

Mike

June 11th, 2005, 03:27 PM

Germany built an aircraft carrier in WW2, the Graf Zeppelin, it was never completely finished though.

http://www.german-navy.de/pics/kriegsmarine/grafzeppelin.gif

http://www.messerschmitt-bf109.de/pics-andere/traeger-graf-zeppelin.jpg

http://www.deutsche-kriegsschiffe.de/Schiffe/flugzeugtraeger/fotos/graf-zeppelin05.jpg

http://www.deutsche-kriegsschiffe.de/Schiffe/flugzeugtraeger/fotos/graf-zeppelin04.jpg

Crownsteler

June 11th, 2005, 03:28 PM

Appearently, the Portugese are buying an LPD now too (link (http://p216.ezboard.com/fwarships1discussionboardsfrm4.showMessage?topicID=1104.topic))

Anyway, the Danish navy hasn't been discussed yet

Surface Combatants
2x Absalon Class Command & Support Ships (Frigates/Destroyers)
4x Thetis Class (Patrol) Frigates
3x Niels Juel Class Corvettes
14x Flyvefisken Class Multi-role Patrolboats

Submarines:
0? I can't find any info on current Danish submarines, they aren't listed on the official Danish navy site

Absalon Class
http://www.navalhistory.dk/images/Episoder/Stoetteskibe/L16_stregtegning.jpg
http://www.navalhistory.dk/images/Skibene/FlexStoetteskibe/ABSN024.jpg
http://www.navalhistory.dk/images/Skibene/E/EsbernSnare2005_BerntS.jpg
Ships in Service
L16 Absalon, 2004
L17 Esbern Snare 2005

Crew:
100-169

Tonnage:
6300 tons full load

Dimensions:
137.6 x 19.5 x 6.3 meters

Max Speed:
23 knots???

Armament:
1x 127 mm Gun M/02 LvSa (5” Mk 45 Mod 4)

From 2005:
2x Harpoon SSM (2x2)
1x Sea Sparrow VLS Mk. 48 Launcher (1x6)
7x 12.7 mm Heavy Machine Gun M/01 LvSa

Later, also:

2x 35 mm CIWS
?x Stinger SAM
?x SEAGNAT/SBROC Mk. 36
?x Anti submarine torpedoes
?x Mines

Air Group:
2x Augusta-Westland EH-101 Helicopters

Cargo:
900m² vehicle storage space

The command & support ships can perform a number of national and inter-national task, including transportation of personal and material, command platform for land, air and sea operations. The ship also has a mine laying capacity. It also has the capacity to carry out humanitarian operations as a hospital ship.
[very cool looking ships too ;)]

Thetis Class
http://www.navalhistory.dk/images/Skibene/Hvidbjørnen(1992)_SVN1.jpg
http://www.navalhistory.dk/images/Skibene/Triton(1991)_SVN1.jpg
Ships in Service
F357 Thetis, 1991
F358 Triton, 1991
F359 VÆDDEREN, 1992
F360 HVIDBJØRNEN, 1992

Crew:
61

Tonnage:
3.500 tons full load

Dimensions:
112.3 x 14.4 x 6.0 meters

Max Speed:
20 knots?

Armament:
1x 76 mm Gun M/85 LvSa
2x 37 mm Gun (salute)
4x 12.7 mm Heavy Machine Gun M/01 LvSa
1x Depth Charge Launcher
4x Stinger Lv M/93 SAM

Air Group:
1x Westland Lynx Mk. 80/91

Niels Juel Class
http://www.navalhistory.dk/images/Skibene/Niels%20Juel(1978)-3096-1980.jpg
http://www.navalhistory.dk/images/Skibene/Olfert%20Fischer_VLS.jpg
Ships in Service
F354 Niels Juel, 1980
F355 Olfert Fischer, 1981
F356 Peter Tordenskiold, 1982

Crew:
91

Tonnage:
1.320 tons full load

Dimensions:
84.0 x 10.3 x 4.8 meters

Max Speed:
28.6 knots

Armament:
1x 76 mm Gun M&71 LvSa
8x Harpoon SSM (2x4)
2x Sea Sparrow VLS Mk. 48 SAM (2x6)
1x Depth Charge Launcher Mk. 3, below deck
4x SEAGNAT/SBROC Mk. 36 (4x6)
2-4x Stinger SAM
7x 12.7 mm Heavy Machine Gun M/01 LvSa

Air Group:
none

Flyvefisken Class
http://www.navalhistory.dk/images/Skibene/Glenten(1989).jpg
http://www.navalhistory.dk/images/Skibene/Havkatten(1990).jpg
http://www.navalhistory.dk/images/Skibene/Skaden(1994).jpg
Ships in Service
P550 Flyvefiskhen, 1989
P551 Hajen, 1989
P552 Havkatten, 1990
P553 Laxen, 1991
P554 Makrelen, 1991
P555 Storen, 1992
P556 Svaerdfisken, 1993
P557 Glenten, 1993
P558 Gribben, 1994
P559 Lommen, 1994
P560 Raven, 1994
P561 Skaden, 1995
P562 Viben, 1996
P563 Soloven, 1996

Crew:
19-29, depending on configuration

Tonnage:
320-450+ tons, depending on configuration

Dimensions:
54.00 x 9.00 x (Norm 2.60, Max. 3.00) meters

Max Speed:
30+ knots

Armament:
Very variable based on mission profile
Standard armament
1x 76 mm Gun M/85 LvSa
2x 12.7 mm Heavy Machine Gun M/01 LvSa

Further (depending on task):

2x Harpoon SSM (2x2) or
2x Harpoon SSM (2x4) and
1x Sea Sparrow VLS Mk.48 Mod.0 (1x6)

or

2x Sea Sparrow VLS Mk.48 Mod.0 (2x6)

Extraordinary:

2x 533 mm Torpedo Tubes (2x1) or
60 mines (max 60 tons)

Air Group:
none

mic of Orion

June 11th, 2005, 03:33 PM

I think it is not so much a rule, but more to the principle, at first it was rule but with collapse of Communist rule in EE this has now been scraped. But Germany see it self more as Nation with no needs to project force anywhere and as it is written in German constitution, I strongly doubt Germany will ever have Aircraft Carrier, perhaps Landing Dock primarily for Humanitarian Operation in which Germany participate a lot more (it had to amend its constitution in 1996 and 1999 and 2002) so it can participate in these operations. German will not change the constitutions on this issue but will require parliamentary approval to specific operations, location, purpose and length of operations and so on.

when you hear of German troops aboard , just consider it took about 3 months of parliamentary discussions and approvals for them to be there and are there only for specific time and will require additional parliamentary discussions for them to stay longer.

BTW Great Pics

especially the Dutch frigates, I like them a lot.

Has anyone put pics of UK's naval forces ?

say T45 Destroyers, Future Aircraft Carriers and so on?

http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/ - more nfo if anyone wants to post info on UK Navy I am not in a mood... lol

Falcon83

June 11th, 2005, 03:40 PM

How many aircraft carriers does uk own? I know the Invinible only.

Matthieu

June 11th, 2005, 03:45 PM

How many aircraft carriers does uk own? I know the Invinible only.

The have 3 of the Invicible class. And they'll be decommissioned and be replaced by 2 that will be much more powerfull after 2010.

Falcon83

June 11th, 2005, 03:55 PM

4 new italian patrolling units "Comandanti class"

-Cigala Fulgosi
-Borsini
-Bettica
-Foscari

http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2004/comandanti/images/comandanti01.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2004/comandanti/images/comandanti03.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2004/comandanti/images/comandanti02.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2004/comandanti/images/comandanti04.jpg

Falcon83

June 11th, 2005, 03:58 PM

Exarchus, do you have some pics of the new ships Orizzonte/Horizon?

Falcon83

June 11th, 2005, 04:04 PM

an italian idea of aircraft carrier:

http://art.supereva.it/carlomacri/index.htm?p

http://art.supereva.it/carlomacri/Carriers-2.jpg

http://art.supereva.it/carlomacri/Image10.jpg

http://art.supereva.it/carlomacri/portaerei-2.jpg

http://art.supereva.it/carlomacri/portaerei-3.jpg

http://art.supereva.it/carlomacri/portaerei-4.jpg

http://art.supereva.it/carlomacri/portaerei-5.jpg

Matthieu

June 11th, 2005, 04:09 PM

Yeah, and while I was looking for these I found this article:

http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/2005661149.asp

Where the Avisos are named as fregates. Damn this is confusing, I keep looking for Horizons pics.

Matthieu

June 11th, 2005, 04:11 PM

A little old now but still good, taken by Kovy from WAF.

http://kovy.free.fr/images-avion/forbin-complet.jpg

http://kovy.free.fr/images-avion/forbin-complet2.jpg

http://kovy.free.fr/images-avion/forbin-07.jpg

Falcon83

June 11th, 2005, 04:15 PM

Falcon83

June 11th, 2005, 04:16 PM

A little old now but still good, taken by Kovy from WAF.

http://kovy.free.fr/images-avion/forbin-complet.jpg

I thought they were much more shorter, good for us.

Matthieu

June 11th, 2005, 04:18 PM

yes....but you never use them.... :)

are you french ready for the war with the US?

We'll just nuke them.

Well, they'll torch us (and when I say us, you're in too) in return.

Crownsteler

June 11th, 2005, 04:21 PM

A quick count of ship numbers and a comparison with the US navy
Europe - US
Carriers:
5 (+2) - 12 (+1)
Cruisers
1 - 25
Destroyers
30 - 48
Frigates
113 (!) - 30
Corvettes
46 - 0
Ballistic submarines
8 - 18 (-4?)
Nuclear attack submarines
17 - 55 (+5(+9?))
Conventional attack submarines
55 - 0
LPH
0 - 12
LPD
15 (+a couple) - 14 (+6)
this doesn't include all European ships, and probally not all US navy ships either

Falcon83

June 11th, 2005, 04:22 PM

Do you think that if in 20 years there will be a european army (army, navy etc.) we can defeat the americans? Do you think there would be another cold war?

Falcon83

June 11th, 2005, 04:24 PM

Matthieu

June 11th, 2005, 04:27 PM

Do you think that if in 20 years there will be a european army (army, navy etc.) we can defeat the americans? Do you think there would be another cold war?

Nope, there are too much differences of spending between countries.

Greece is spending way a lot (% wise) and other countries like Ireland spend peanuts.

Defence spending repartition should be shared in order to accept the big payers to share their equipments. And increasing their defense budget is certainly not on the agenda of most european countries.

willo

June 11th, 2005, 04:38 PM

more SPAIN

frigate f103 Blas de Lezo class

http://www.revistanaval.com/txemaprada/imagenes/wallpapers/f103-blasdelezo-wallpaper.jpg

http://www.revistanaval.com/imaxes/actualidad_f103.jpg

corvette AFCON class

http://www.revistanaval.com/txemaprada/imagenes/wallpapers/corbeta-afcon-wallpaper.jpg

http://www.saorbats.com.ar/articulos/Exponaval04/36.jpg

patrolling unit p-79 ''vencedora''
http://www.revistanaval.com/txemaprada/imagenes/wallpapers/P79-vencedora-wallpaper.jpg

frigate f72 andalucia class

http://www.revistanaval.com/txemaprada/imagenes/f72/F72andalucia-ma1.jpg
http://www.revistanaval.com/txemaprada/imagenes/f72/proa-F72-1978.jpg
http://www.revistanaval.com/txemaprada/imagenes/f72/F72.jpg

patrolling unit p-64 ''tarifa''
http://www.revistanaval.com/txemaprada/imagenes/wallpapers/P64-Tarifa-wallpaper.jpg

frigate f73 cataluña class
http://www.revistanaval.com/txemaprada/imagenes/wallpapers/f73-catalunya_wallp.jpg
http://www.puertogijon.es/Album/varios/thumbnails/p1007_274.jpg

Falcon83

June 11th, 2005, 04:46 PM

Battaglione San Marco. Italian navy landing forces (venetian pride:D).

http://www.btgsanmarco.it/

http://www.btgsanmarco.it/sanmarcooggi/mezzidelsmarco.htm

http://www.btgsanmarco.it/sanmarcooggi/ilfuturo.htm

willo

June 11th, 2005, 04:47 PM

SPAIN PROJECTS

overcraft VCA36

http://www.revistanaval.com/txemaprada/imagenes/wallpapers/VCA36-playa-wallpaper.jpg

aircraft Carlos III class

http://www.revistanaval.com/txemaprada/imagenes/wallpapers/R21-wallpaper.jpg

BPO ship

http://www.revistanaval.com/txemaprada/imagenes/wallpapers/L61-cervantes-wallpaper.jpg
http://www.revistanaval.com/txemaprada/imagenes/wallpapers/l61-cervantes-popa.jpg

LCM-X

http://www.revistanaval.com/txemaprada/imagenes/wallpapers/lcm-x-wallpaper.jpg

aircraft carrier l-33 Marquesa class

http://www.revistanaval.com/txemaprada/imagenes/wallpapers/l33-marquesa-planos.jpg
http://www.revistanaval.com/txemaprada/imagenes/wallpapers/l33-marquesa.jpg

helicopter carrier l-81 gato class

http://www.revistanaval.com/txemaprada/imagenes/wallpapers/l81-catamaran-wallpaper.jpg

frigate f-110 class

http://www.revistanaval.com/txemaprada/imagenes/wallpapers/f-110-wallpaper.jpg

BTP a-120

http://www.revistanaval.com/txemaprada/imagenes/wallpapers/bpt-azcarate-wallpaper.jpg

frigate f90 class

http://www.revistanaval.com/txemaprada/imagenes/wallpapers/f-90.jpg

frigate f30 class
http://www.revistanaval.com/txemaprada/imagenes/wallpapers/f30-sachse.jpg

Jai-C

June 11th, 2005, 04:51 PM

Aircraft carriers are attack weapons, they allow you to "project" your power beyond your own nation's borders. Germany has since WW2 adhered to a rule which allows only defensive weapons, a definition which is essentially bound to the range of a weapon. I.e. Germany doesn't have tankers to refule jets, nor does it have ballistic missiles. In the last years though this rule seems to be broken more and more due to German participation in NATO "out of border" missions.
Didn't Roland Koch (prime minister of Hesse) say that he wants an aircraft carrier for Germany? Let's wait for the elections in September - a CDU government may have a certain interest in attack weapons to please our "closest ally" (the USA) again... ;)

Oberleutnant

June 11th, 2005, 05:10 PM

Uh, such a great wankfest over military stuff. Oh well, even though I'm a pacifist and humanist, things that go boom, especially naval ships, are interesting from technical viewpoint.

Finnish military spending is among the smallest in EU by its share of GDP, and most of it goes for the Army and Air Force. Navy gets to do with very small budget

Hamina-class missile boat / fast-attack craft

http://www.mil.fi/merivoimat/esikunta/toim_kalusto_hamina.jpg

Length: 51 m
Breadth: 8.5 m
Draught: 1.7 m
Speed: 30+ knots
Displacement: 236 tonnes

Ships of the class:
FNS Hamina
FNS Tornio
Unnamed vessel, currently under construction
Unnamed vessel II, will go under construction soon

Weapon systems:
4x Saab RBS-15F anti-ship missiles
Bofors 57 L70 Mk3 naval gun
Umkhonto surface-to-air missiles

http://www.mil.fi/ajankohtaista/tiedotteet/arkisto/2001/images/20010704_0926_1/35603-1998_s.jpg

At this point I probably just should go hide somewhere in the corner in shame. :P

Crownsteler

June 11th, 2005, 05:22 PM

not so bad! But probably the american would be much more coordinated.

That, and the european ships are sometimes of questionable quality, whereas the US ships are all excellent ships.
The Danish frigates for example (see my post about the Danish navy) have actually very little combat value, and the American destroyers are TWICE as capable (in terms of misslepower) compared to ANY European destroyer, their Cruisers are even more powerful (the French cruiser doesn't have that much combat value) and not to mention the American carriers are far more capable than their European counterparts (85 aircraft on a nimitz vs 40 on the CdG).
The American nuclear submarines are probally better then their diesel-electric European counterparts too, so don't attach to much value to those numbers.

@Willo
how many of those "projects" are actually realistic, and how many are the artists imaginination?

Matthieu

June 11th, 2005, 07:05 PM

Ringil

June 11th, 2005, 09:24 PM

some swedish "ships"

http://www.4minkriflj.mil.se/images/local/img_2817.jpg
Landsort class

http://www.4minkriflj.mil.se/images/local/sparo.jpg
Spårö class

http://www.4minkriflj.mil.se/images/local/ckr-011.jpg
Carlskrona class

http://www.lidkopingsnytt.nu/Album/skepp/hmsvisborgmaj31.jpg
Visborg class, maybe too old for this thread, built in the 70s

http://www.lidkopingsnytt.nu/Album/skepp/korvettstyrkamaj30.jpg
http://homepage.eircom.net/~steven/images/gavle_std.jpg
Göteborg class

http://www.3ysflj.mil.se/images/local/fost05_02_mmo.jpg
stockholm class

http://www.lidkopingsnytt.nu/Album/skepp/belos9juni.jpg
http://www.hkpflj.mil.se/berga/images/local/qphkp6_belos_01_800.jpg
http://www.1ubflj.mil.se/images/local/urf_lyft.jpg
HMS Belos, submarine rescue vessel.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/images/visby-AK0009.jpg
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/images/visby-Levkontroll_DK_020305_0016.jpg
The Visby class, again

http://www.3ysflj.mil.se/images/local/smyge.jpg
HMS Smyge, "the mother" of the Visby class corvette. Built in the late 80s. Today it's a museum but i think it could be mentioned here since its an important part of the swedish stealth history. As only very little of the hull projects into the water (more than 80% of the ship is supported by the air cushion), it makes for a small pressure signature (there are Norwegian mine hunters with the same configuration). This also makes it relatively insensitive to underwater explosions.

the royal swedish navy is noting to brag about, anymore.

willo

June 12th, 2005, 01:29 AM

@Willo
how many of those "projects" are actually realistic, and how many are the artists imaginination?

it's supposed that all those projects are realistic since the pictures are from the spanish naval magazine

Geroplatanos

June 12th, 2005, 01:52 AM

Actually, I agree, we can't compare the European fleets with the US one. That's just ludicrous.

Exarchus i would disagree with you ,
The fact that US NAVY budget is 100 times bigger than the european answers to your question.
But...
Lets make comparisons that can stand....
Comparison stands when you compare a nuclear submarine with a nuclear submarine , a frigate with a frigate and a destroyer with a destroyer.
European made frigates (that is what europe needs , especially the closed seas like mediterranean and north/baltic) are much better then the O.H Perry american frigates (thats the only type of frigate in use in the american NAVY) and some times even better then some american destroyers.
Europe does not have warships of the size of a cruiser because it is not needed.
The false thing in your sentence was :
the european ships are sometimes of questionable quality, whereas the US ships are all excellent ships.

Ships like the new French,Spanish,German frigates are not even comparable to any of the similar size american ships.
I repeat again comparison stands for same category things.
You can not have a boxing game between someone 120 KG and someone 50KG
:)

Jai-C

June 12th, 2005, 03:13 AM

Ships like the new French,Spanish,German frigates are not even comparable to any of the similar size american ships.
Actually the new german frigates (F124) could also be classified as destroyers. With a length of 143m they're bigger then the old Lütjen class destroyers they replaced...
The future F125 frigates (to replace F122 frigates) will be of similar size.

Geroplatanos

June 12th, 2005, 03:51 AM

Submarines play a very important role in modern navies....

Here is a short list with some european navies which have more then 6 submarines each:

OPERATIONAL COMBAT SUBMARINES

FRANCE
4 SSBN "Le Tromphannt" (1997-today)
2 SSBN "L'INFLEXIBLE" (1976-1985 - Scrapping as `Le Triomphant' class enters service)
6 SSN "RUBIS" (1983-1993 First four modernised to standard of last two)

UK
4 SSBN "VANGUARD" (1993-1999)
7 SSN "Trafalgar" (1983-1991 Being modernised with new combat management, sensors and cruise missiles)
4 SSN "SWIFTSURE" (1974-1981 Being modernised with new combat management. Sensors and cruise missiles.)

GERMANY
12 SSK "Type 206A" (1973-1975 Modernised early 1990s with new sonar, combat management and periscopes)
4 SSK "Type 212" (2003-today Hybrid diesel-electric/AIP (fuel cell))

ITALY
4 SSK "Improved `Sauro'" (1988-1995 Three modernised late 1990s. One being modernised)
2 SSK "Sauro" (1979-1981 Modernised early 1990s)
2 (+2) "Type 212 Salvatore Todaro" (2005 - Hybrid diesel-electric/AIP (fuel cell)

GREECE
4 SSK "Type 209/1100" (1971-1972 Modernised 1993-2000)
4 SSK "Type 209/1200" (1979-1980 To be modernised between 2004-2014 with AIP and new combat management)
1 (+3) SSK "Type 214" (2005-2009 Hybrid diesel-electric/AIP (fuel cell)

SPAIN
4 SSK "Agosta" (1983-1986 modernized late 90s)
2 SSK "Daphne" (1973-1975)
2 SSK " Scorpène S-80" (in order - AIP )

TURKEY
4 SSK "Type 209/1400" (1994-1999)
6 SSK "Type 209/1200" (1976-1990 Mid-life upgrading planned)
1(+3) SSK "Type 209/1400 Gur class" (2005 - 2007)

SWEDEN
3 SSK "Gotland" (1996-1997 Hybrid diesel-electric/AIP (fuel cell)
4 SSk "Vastergotland" (1987-1990 , two will install AIP)

DENMARK
1 SSK "Kronborg --Swedish Näcken (A 14)" (1980)
3 SSK "Type 207 `Kobben" (1965 -Modernised 1992-93. New sonar)
2 SSK "Narhvalen" (1970 -Modernised 1993-98. New sonar and electro-optic mast)

NORWAY
6 SSK "Ula' (Type 210)" (1989-1992 Combat management system being upgraded)

KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

June 12th, 2005, 07:00 AM

The Hellenic Navy ( part 2 )

~SUBMARINES~

Type 209/1100

-GLAFKOS-

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/images/dy/images/Thyreos_Glaykos.jpg

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/images/dy/images/gallery/anadisi.JPG

-NIREFS-

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/upload/Yb%20Nireus.jpg

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/images/dy/images/s111.JPG

-TRITON-

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/upload/Yb%20Triton.jpg

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/images/dy/images/gallery/s112a.JPG

-PROTEFS-

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/upload/Yb%20Proteus.jpg

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/images/dy/images/s113.JPG

Type 209/1200

-POSEIDON-

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/upload/Yb%20Poseidon.jpg

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/images/dy/images/gallery/S116-DIVING.jpg

-AMFITRITI-

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/upload/Yb%20Amfitriti.jpg

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/images/dy/images/S117.jpg

-OKEANOS-

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/upload/Yb%20Okeanos.jpg

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/images/dy/images/S118.jpg

-PONTOS-

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/upload/Yb%20Pontos.jpg

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/images/dy/images/S119_2.jpg

Type 214 ( U/C )

-PAPANIKOLIS-

-PIPINOS-

-MATROZOS-

-KATSONIS-

The first submarine ( type 214 ) in the world.

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/images/dy/images/pap_hi.JPG

all pics are from the official website of the Hellenic Navy (http://www.hellenicnavy.gr)

Tekir

June 12th, 2005, 08:38 AM

Battal Gazi Class Turkish Submarine with his victim, Fanis Christodolou class Submarine.

http://www.amator-balikcilik.com/upload/store2/oratauw2.JPG

Crownsteler

June 12th, 2005, 09:55 AM

Exarchus i would disagree with you ,
The fact that US NAVY budget is 100 times bigger than the european answers to your question.
But...
Lets make comparisons that can stand....
Comparison stands when you compare a nuclear submarine with a nuclear submarine , a frigate with a frigate and a destroyer with a destroyer.
European made frigates (that is what europe needs , especially the closed seas like mediterranean and north/baltic) are much better then the O.H Perry american frigates (thats the only type of frigate in use in the american NAVY) and some times even better then some american destroyers.
Europe does not have warships of the size of a cruiser because it is not needed.
The false thing in your sentence was :
.

Ships like the new French,Spanish,German frigates are not even comparable to any of the similar size american ships.
I repeat again comparison stands for same category things.
You can not have a boxing game between someone 120 KG and someone 50KG
:)

Then we better stop comparing :P The American destroyers outclass anything we have afloat by sheer mass alone :P

But really, the German, Spanish, Italian and French frigates (de Horizon, f-100 and f-124) should be classed as destroyers (I guess there is a tendency to call ships frigates instead of destroyers because frigate sounds more neutral) and should be compared to to the American destoyers. Claiming that there are European frigates superiour to the American destroyers is just rediculus, this is the armement on an Arleigh Burke Class destroyer:
1x 32 cell Mk41 VLS
1x 64 cell Mk41 VLS
(96 Standard SM-2, Tomahawk, VLA)
1x 5"/62cal DP (5"/54cal DP in DDG 79-80)
2x 20mm Phalanx CIWS (DDG 79-84 only)
2x triple 12.75 inch torpedo tubes (Mk46 torpedoes)
2x 25mm Bushmaster low-angle (most ships)
4x 12.7mm MG.
vs that of an Alvaro de Bazan class destroyers (arguably the best European destroyer currently afloat)
1x 48 cell VLS (Standard SM-2MR, ESSM)
8x Harpoon SSM
1x 5/54 DP
1x 20 mm Meroka CIWS
4x 12.75 inch torpedo tubes
2x 20 mm

you can see that they are about equal on everything except missle capability, the Areigh Burke class blows the Alvaron de Bazan class out of the water. It has TWICE as many missle cells, and carries tomahawks!
Now about the frigates, I never said Europa couldn't produce better frigates than America, I just said that sometimes the European frigates would be of questionable quality and could have little combat value (such as the Danish frigates) and therefor, you shouldn't draw conclusion from the list I composed (and I believe you are saying the same thing, aren't you?)

@Willo
Really? I see 3 new carriers in those pictures, and while I would love to see them get build especially the Carlos III), I really doubt they would ever get build.

ch1le

June 12th, 2005, 10:13 AM

how many carriers has US got again ? 10? right?

Crownsteler

June 12th, 2005, 10:55 AM

12, with 1 under construction (as a replacement for an old one) and a few more ordered/planned

Ringil

June 12th, 2005, 11:48 AM

DENMARK
1 SSK "Kronborg --Swedish Näcken (A 14)" (1980)
3 SSK "Type 207 `Kobben" (1965 -Modernised 1992-93. New sonar)
2 SSK "Narhvalen" (1970 -Modernised 1993-98. New sonar and electro-optic mast)

Denmark hasn't got any subs. They're all gone. They were going to buy the Viking-class subs before the withdrew their order, destroying the whole project, the viking project that is, we got a new project now, called A26

Geroplatanos

June 12th, 2005, 01:05 PM

Then we better stop comparing :P The American destroyers outclass anything we have afloat by sheer mass alone :P

But really, the German, Spanish, Italian and French frigates (de Horizon, f-100 and f-124) should be classed as destroyers (I guess there is a tendency to call ships frigates instead of destroyers because frigate sounds more neutral) and should be compared to to the American destoyers. Claiming that there are European frigates superiour to the American destroyers is just rediculus, this is the armement on an Arleigh Burke Class destroyer:
1x 32 cell Mk41 VLS
1x 64 cell Mk41 VLS
(96 Standard SM-2, Tomahawk, VLA)
1x 5"/62cal DP (5"/54cal DP in DDG 79-80)
2x 20mm Phalanx CIWS (DDG 79-84 only)
2x triple 12.75 inch torpedo tubes (Mk46 torpedoes)
2x 25mm Bushmaster low-angle (most ships)
4x 12.7mm MG.
vs that of an Alvaro de Bazan class destroyers (arguably the best European destroyer currently afloat)
1x 48 cell VLS (Standard SM-2MR, ESSM)
8x Harpoon SSM
1x 5/54 DP
1x 20 mm Meroka CIWS
4x 12.75 inch torpedo tubes
2x 20 mm

you can see that they are about equal on everything except missle capability, the Areigh Burke class blows the Alvaron de Bazan class out of the water. It has TWICE as many missle cells, and carries tomahawks!
Now about the frigates, I never said Europa couldn't produce better frigates than America, I just said that sometimes the European frigates would be of questionable quality and could have little combat value (such as the Danish frigates) and therefor, you shouldn't draw conclusion from the list I composed (and I believe you are saying the same thing, aren't you?)

@Willo
Really? I see 3 new carriers in those pictures, and while I would love to see them get build especially the Carlos III), I really doubt they would ever get build.

Dear Crownsteler
you write many correct things.
But still you want to compare frigates with destroyers , better look the displacement :
Arleigh Burke class destroyers : 8,300-9,200 tons full load

All the above are characterized as multi purpose frigates (or anti-air)
type 124 Sachsen class (german) frigate: ~5,600 tons full load
F-100 Bazan (Spain) : ~5,800 tons
Lafayette (france) : 3,800 tons
Horizon (france-italy): 6,700 tons full load

you can see that they are about equal on everything except missle capability, the Areigh Burke class blows the Alvaron de Bazan class out of the water. It has TWICE as many missle cells, and carries tomahawks!

First of all you make the comparison with the spanish frigates i supose because they have the AEGIS system like the american ships , comparison should be made also with the french-italian horizon frigates.
In second place , the tomahawks missilies are not in any use for a european navy :) There is no european country who wishes to manage a hit/attack some thousand miles away to iraq or iran , tomahawk missiles dont offer something to the survival ability of a ship...
As about the quantity of missiles , its the only advantage of the american destroyers , but this is obvious since they are larger ships then destroyers with much larger size and displacement :)

I dont know why you incist on danish frigates when there are other countries with bigger and better navies.
I make here a small comparison :

O.H. Perry class frigates (USA)
Displacement: ~4,000 tons
armament:
1 single-arm Mark 13 guided missile launcher with a 40-round magazine that can handle SM-1MR (SAM) anti-air/ship missiles and Harpoon anti-ship missiles.
2 triple Mark 32 ASW torpedo tubes with Mark 46 or Mark 50 anti-submarine torpedoes
1 OTO Melara 76 mm naval gun
1 20 mm Phalanx CIWS

MEKO 200TN/T2 (Turkey)
Displacement: 3,380 tons
armament:
Guns: 1 x 127 mm/54
3 x 25 mm Sea Zenith (quad - CIWS)
2x4 launchers for Harpoon SSM
1x8 launcher Sea Sparrow SAM
Two triple 2 x 324 mm Mk 32 for Mk46 torpidoes

MEKO 200HN(Greece)
Displacement: 3,350 tons
armament:
1x16 Raytheon NATO Sea Sparrow Mk 48 Mod 2 vertical launcher(SAM)
1 naval gun FMC 5 in (127 mm)/54 Mk 45 Mod 2A
2 20 mm Phalanx CIWS
Two triple 2 x 324 mm Mk 32 for Mk46 torpidoes
2 quad launchers for Harpoon SSM
(sonar:Raytheon SQS-56/DE 1160; hull-mounted and VDS.)

From the data above , i dont see any frigates to be underestimated...
So for sure there are some frigates of questionable capability but also some other with a very advanced capability...depends what you compare :)

Matthieu

June 12th, 2005, 01:20 PM

I will also point that I have little doubt a La Fayette fregate is harder to hit than a destroyer.

Fallout

June 12th, 2005, 02:11 PM

Notice that all U.S. fleet are large and heavy blue water ships. I don't know if they would do so well against smaller european vessels in a smaller sea like Baltic or Mediterranean.

Geroplatanos

June 12th, 2005, 02:15 PM

Notice that all U.S. fleet are large and heavy blue water ships. I don't know if they would do so well against smaller european vessels in a smaller sea like Baltic or Mediterranean.

:okay:

Crownsteler

June 12th, 2005, 03:02 PM

So for sure there are some frigates of questionable capability but also some other with a very advanced capability...depends what you compare :)

Dear Geroplatanos,
This is exactly my point, I'm not trying to bring down the European navies, not at all, there are some very advanced ships in service, but I'm just point out that numbers can be decieving. :)

But, just a few points;
1) the LCF, F-100, F-124, Horizon and Alreigh Burke are all destroyers and serve the exact same functie, and therefor, they are comparable.
2) I choose the Spanish destroyers (:P) because they are probally the best European ships afloat (tho, I personally rate APAR better then AEGIS)
3) Hopefully, the Dutch navy will accuire tomahawks in 2006 and equip them on the LCFs (there is room for 8 more misslecells, originally intended for tomahawks, but they weren't fitted) the MoD has expressed his wishes and reserved funding to accuire them and the US is willing to supply them (for our assitance in Iraq), however, the parlament will have to agree to this first and thus it is unlikely we'll get them :(
The Spanish also intended on fitting tomahawks on their F-100s, but this was not done and with their new socalist government, it is unlikely of happing :(
4) Although tomahawks don't increase the survivabilty of a ship, it does definatly improve their capabilty, doesn't it? A naval ship is also ment as force projection, not only as a (self-)defence ship, which, btw, is something Europe (as a whole) is lacking from.

I will also point that I have little doubt a La Fayette fregate is harder to hit than a destroyer.

I have lttile doubt it would be easier to score a hit on a Lafayette then it is on a Alreigh Burke. The Lafayette are stealthy, but so are the Alreigh Burke (be it to a lesser extent), but more importantly, the Lafayette relies completely on its stealth, whereas a Alreigh Burke has some excellent self defence weapons against enemy fire.
I doubt 30 meters difference in size and decent stealth would count as much as good self defence

Oh yes, I do love the Alreigh Burke class, they are extremely cool :) Only the Kirov's are cooler ;)

Geroplatanos

June 13th, 2005, 10:35 AM

Geroplatanos

June 13th, 2005, 10:57 AM

U214HN
The new submarines of Hellenic Navy

Displacement (surface/submerged) : 1,700-1,980 tons
Dimentions (Length / beam / draft) : 65/6,3/6
torpedo tubes : 8x533mm (16 torpidoes DM2A4)
missiles : Sub-Harpoon
Machinery:
Diesels/power output : 2 × MTU 16V 396 / 6.24 MW
AIP/ power output : 2 × HDW PEM / 240 kW
Speed (surfaced/submerged) : 12/22 kts
Range (surfaced) : 12,000 n miles
(submerged) : 420 miles /8kts
(on fuel cell) : 1,248 n miles/4kts
Autonomy : 50 days
Operating depth : 400 m
Personnel : 5 officers , 22 crew

Type 214 Submarines

The Type 214 developed by HDW integrates features of the Type 209 together with technological advances derived from the Type 212 programme and some of the latest technology incorporated in the `Dolphin' design. In other words U214=U209+U212 . Thus, the hull design and its hydrodynamic form emphasise stealth capabilities, offering good low signature features including both self-generated noise and flow noise and magnetic signature. The design is characterised by low displacement and high weapon and sensor payload. The high degree of automation results in low crew numbers, which enables the weapons payload to be optimised. Built of austenitic steel (HY 80 and HY 100), the buoyancy reserve is in excess of 10 per cent and diving depth is in excess of 400 m.
Propulsion

The modular design of the Type 214 will enable future developments in propulsion, weapons and sensor systems to be easily integrated. In the current design, propulsion is provided by two MTU 16 V 396 engines (2,000 kW) serving a 600-900 V propulsion battery with a fully integrated auxiliary AIP system based on two PEM (polymer electrolyte membrane ) 120 kW fuel cell modules. The propulsion motor is a Siemens Permasyn (type FR6439-3900 KW) low-speed permanently excited electric motor driving a low-noise, skewback 7- blade propeller.
Using the AIP system on submerged patrol and intercept missions enables the boat to remain submerged for up to 13 days at a speed of 4 kt. Submerged sprint speeds of between 16 and 20+ kt are possible for periods of a few hours several times during a 50 day mission. At a speed of 6 kt the mission range is almost 12,000 n miles. Endurance will be 84 days.The fuel cell works at an operating temperature of 70 to 80ºC, which makes the submarine difficult to detect using external heat sensors.

Electronics - Weapons
The command, sensor and weapon control outfit comprises the STN ATLAS Elektronik ISUS 90-15 system upgraded to provide increased low frequency detection range. The sonar suite CSU 90 (DBQS-40FTC) includes following types of sonar:

* cylindrical array (CAH) for medium frequency passive detection
* FAS-3-1 flank array sonar for low/medium-frequency detection
* thin line towed array (TAS) for low frequencies in a medium self-noise environment (fitted for)
* passive ranging sonar PRS-3-15 for calculation of target data
* active sonar (CTA) , for determination of target range and bearing.
* Intercept array sonar for detection of active emissions of surface ships.
* The active high-frequency mine detection sonar (MAS) is the MOA 3070.

The ship is equipped with an ESM/ECM system TIMNEX II by Elbit .

A consortium led by STN ATLAS Elektronik and Allied Signal ELAC is responsible for the development of the TAU 2000 torpedo countermeasures system. TAU 2000 has four launch containers, each with up to ten discharge tubes equipped with effectors. The effectors are small underwater vehicles, similar in appearance to a torpedo. The effectors are jammers and decoys with hydrophones and acoustic emitters. Multiple effectors are deployed in order to counter torpedoes in re-attack mode.In the occasion of upcoming torpedo 3 jammers and 2 decoys will be fired from the system.

Other sensors include: an attack periscope, an electro-optic mast OMS-100 (both manufactured by Zeiss) . The optronic mast will be equipped by thermal camera , laser range finder and low lightness TV (LLLTV) . Other systems include inertial platform, attitude and heading reference equipment, EM-log, echo-sounder and GPS. All sensors and weapons are controlled via five multipurpose consoles of the ISUS 90-15.

The 214HN sub will be equipped with Link 11 compatible with the other units of Greek Navy , and SATCOM system X band

The weapons system comprises eight 533 mm swim-out torpedo tubes fitted through the forward bulkhead and which permit the discharge of all kinds of torpedoes. Four of the tubes are also equipped with a Weapon Expulsion System (WES) for launching encapsulated anti-ship missiles � Sub- Harpoon. Optionally, all weapon tubes can be equipped with a positive weapon discharge system. With eight torpedoes positioned ready for instant fast reload, the Type 214 has an overall heavyweight torpedo payload of 16.

The first (S-120 Papanikolis) of the 4 new submarines during the launching ceremony in HDW shipyards in Kiel (2004) :

http://users.otenet.gr/~kostast/214-2.jpg

http://users.otenet.gr/~kostast/214-3.JPG

http://users.otenet.gr/~kostast/241-5.jpg

http://users.otenet.gr/~kostast/214-6.jpg

http://users.otenet.gr/~kostast/214-4.JPG

SHiRO

June 13th, 2005, 03:54 PM

That, and the european ships are sometimes of questionable quality, whereas the US ships are all excellent ships.
The Danish frigates for example (see my post about the Danish navy) have actually very little combat value, and the American destroyers are TWICE as capable (in terms of misslepower) compared to ANY European destroyer, their Cruisers are even more powerful (the French cruiser doesn't have that much combat value) and not to mention the American carriers are far more capable than their European counterparts (85 aircraft on a nimitz vs 40 on the CdG).
The American nuclear submarines are probally better then their diesel-electric European counterparts too, so don't attach to much value to those numbers.

While this is true...

...raw firepower is not the only component in naval warfare. On NATO exercises it is not unheard of one of those diesel electric subs wiping out entire US carriergroups. A Dutch Walrusclass sub did so to the Theodore Rooosevelt carriergroup some years ago.

Also...we don't need Tomahawks on our ships, power projection my ass! I have no interest of footing the bill for something what is sure to be American interests. And to think of that they discarded the Orion planes, something that WAS actually usefull for what the role of the modern Dutch (European) navy should play.

Crownsteler

June 14th, 2005, 12:30 AM

Thanks for the info Crownsteler , generally i would agree with your comments (especially about APAR)
By the way can you give me some info about the new dutch frigates?
Since you are a "fan" of Alreigh Burke class destroyers , i read yesterday that there are discussions between US government and greece for 2 ships of the class (probably batch1 although its better to have of the batch2 with space for 2 hellicopters!

Glad to be of service :)
About what frigates do you want info? The LFC? I'm not really a naval expert, nor do I work for the navy, so I can only point you in the direction of websites. This is probally one of the best with information about the LCFs:
http://www.kitsune.addr.com/LCF/
and this is the website of the builders, it has some information (type/brands) of systems fitted on them:
http://www.scheldeshipbuilding.com

And about the Alreigh Burkes, I take it the talks are about already used ships, and not newly build? I would love to see them transfered here, but will it really happen? The ships are very new (in 1991 the first one was commisioned), I guess they are very expensive (more then the Greeks can afford?) and there are still some Spruances in service with the US navy, would it not make more sence for the Americans to transfere these ships? Could it not be that the reporter(?) misinterpeted it and they were actually talking about Spruances or Kidds? Don't get me wrong, I'd love them to come to Europe, but I really doubt that is going to happen :(

...raw firepower is not the only component in naval warfare. On NATO exercises it is not unheard of one of those diesel electric subs wiping out entire US carriergroups. A Dutch Walrusclass sub did so to the Theodore Rooosevelt carriergroup some years ago

True true, this just proves that subs are superiour in ship-to-ship combat to surface ships :)

Also...we don't need Tomahawks on our ships, power projection my ass! I have no interest of footing the bill for something what is sure to be American interests. And to think of that they discarded the Orion planes, something that WAS actually usefull for what the role of the modern Dutch (European) navy should play.

While I agree that the loss of the Orions is a great loss, and I would love to keep them, but the primary mission for Orions is ASW, anti submarine warfare, with secondaries in patrol and scouting and this is NOT what the modern Dutch an European navies should see as their role! Since the collaps of the Soviet Union ASW is hardly neccesary anymore (tho, we should still keep that capabilty!), a far more import aspect of the navy is the ability to project force outside our borders! During the cold war this was not neccesary because if there was going to be a war between the USSR and the US, it was going to be fought in Europe (Germany), theirfor it was important for the Europeans (except the British) to build a massive (immobile) army to rival the sheer power of the USSR and build a fleet to keep their ports open and protect (American and British) convoys.
With the collaps of the USSR this IS NOT neccesary anymore, there is only one nation on earth with real power projection capabilty and that is the US (and France and the UK are the next great powers), because they are our allies we do not have to fear them blokking our ports (and if they did, we wouldn't have to expect their convoys, now do we?) and no other power can threaten us in European waters (because they simply don't have the capabilty), we can shift our attention to the role the wealthy nations should play, policing the world. While it may not be popular in Europe, we should protect the world against itself and protect our intrests! Why is America such a great power (economicly and politicly)? Because it can project its power abroad! People tend to take in account America's wishes, or be screwed otherwise (see Iraq and Afghanistan)
For Europe to maintain an active and important role in world politics we need the capabilty to project our power abroad, just like the Americans.
If we can, we can not only protect our (economic) intrests abroad, but we can also check America! The UN is useless because nobody can stand up against the US, and if they do, the US ignores them! If those opposing nations have sufficiant military capabilty they are free to object the US, not because the US would fear going to war with them, but because the US would be intrested in their military capabilty. In Iraq, the US almost carries the entire cost of the war themselfs and this is expensive, wherever a nation offered their help the US embraced it because it supressed their costs.
Why does the US still ingore Europe then? Because not a single nation (with the exception of Britain and France) can really project enough force abroad to be intresting for the US, they wont make much of a difference costwise to be invaluable. If the European nations can make enough difference costwise for the US (and are united), you can be sure the US will think twice about going to war.
Having Tomahawks would surely make some difference. Cruisemissles are very expensive! (A torpedo costs what? $6 million? I can only imagine what a cruise missle would cost) Having enough cruisemissles would make the US intrested in our support. Not because they couldn't do it themselfs, but because it would be cheaper for them to have us do it.
When we have enough tomahawks we can use them to support the US, or we could choose not to do it. If we have enough cruisemissles (or bombers, or men, or tanks) and we choose not to use them to support the US, the US would do a lot to get our support, which means we could press our mark on international politicals and check the US!
Tomahawks, are in my oppionion, if wish to put a mark on international politics, check the US and protect our economic intrests abroad, a must for any European navy, as are carriers, ballistic subs and LPDs, LHPs (though, those last things are very much wishful thinking.)

you know, I should copy this, it is pretty good isn't it? :)

SHiRO

June 14th, 2005, 01:59 AM

Totally unrealistic...

The Dutch are going to use Tomahawks for power projection?? Sure...
The government just wants to buy them so they can push their tongue even further in GWB his asscrack. Maybe Balkenende can come visit the Whitehouse two times a year instead of one. These Tomahawks are not going to make one shred of difference in our ability to influence global politics. The Americans know who they are supplying and they only deliver to their most trusted lapdogs. I'm VERY happy this is never going to happen, because parliament will never approve the purchase of these totally unnecessary offensive weapons. Can you conjure up just one credible scenario when the Dutch navy needs to deliver SS missilles to an inland target thousands of miles away on their own? I can't.
You talk about the role of modern navies...this aint one of them. We need the capacity in NATO, or even in a multinational European taskforce, but the Dutch navy does not need this! Or maybe you want to place a LCF in Norfolk harbour...

A torpedo btw doesn't cost anything near to 6 million. I estimate a Tomahawk missile costs 1 million.

About the Orions...
They were excelent maritime patrolcraft and we could have used them in Iraq. we had to rely on the Brits and Americans for intel on our own sector their because we didn't send them. Now they are being discarded (along with their base...) while they can play a big role in checking shipping lanes (embargo's, piracy, drugsmugglers) and intelligence gathering (securing borders, looking for trainincamps). THESE are the task a modern day military needs to live up to these days, not the ability to scare a dictator in a bunker while you hit 100s of innocent civilians because you fire a missile from 800 km away.

Tarchon

June 14th, 2005, 01:32 PM

^^
http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2004/basetaranto/images/img08.jpg

I see two carriers on this picture. What is the second one?

The first on the left down side is the assault ship L9894 SAN GIUSTO:

http://www.analisidifesa.it/images31/DSC01148-2.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/unita/images/sanmarco_new.gif

The second one on the right over is the carrier C551 G.GARIBALDI:

http://www.marina.difesa.it/unita/pagine/navi/garibaldi/images/garibaldi.jpg

Matthieu

June 14th, 2005, 03:04 PM

The NH-90

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/nh90/

NH90 NFH - ASW / TRANSPORT HELICOPTER, EUROPE

The NATO Frigate Helicopter (NFH) is one of two versions of the NH90 twin-engine multi-role helicopter being developed by NH Industries. The other version is the NH90 TTH Tactical Transport Helicopter. NH Industries, the prime contractor for the programme, is a joint venture company owned by AgustaWestland (32%)of Italy, Eurocopter (62.5%) and Stork Fokker (5%) of the Netherlands. Eurocopter is a subsidiary of EADS (European Aeronautics Defence and Space) company formed by DaimlerChrysler Aerospace of Germany, Aerospatiale Matra of France and CASA of Spain. In June 2000, the participating countries signed a contract for the production of 243 NH90s: France 27 NFH, Germany 80 TTH (with an option on a further 54), Italy 46 NFH and 70 TTH and the Netherlands 20 NFH. The first series production helicopter made its maiden flight in May 2004. First deliveries are scheduled: Germany 2004, Italy 2004, France 2005 and the Netherlands 2007.

In June 2001, Portugal became the fifth nation to join the NH90 programme, with a requirement for ten NH90 TTH helicopters. The Portuguese industrial partner is OGMA.

In September 2001, the NH90 was chosen as the common helicopter for the Nordic Standard Helicopter Programme, for the navies of Norway, Sweden and Finland. Sweden has ordered 18 (13 TTT, five NFH), Finland 20 TTH and Norway 14 NFH (six for ASW and six for the coastguard). In September 2003, Greece ordered 20 NH90 (16 TTH and four Special Operations) plus 14 on option.

In July 2004, 20 NH90 helicopters were ordered by the Royal Air Force of the Sultanate of Oman.

In August 2004, the Australian Ministry of Defence selected a version of the helicopter, the MRH 90, to meet the Australian Army requirement for 12 troop transport helicopters under the Air 9000 programme. The helicopters will be built by Australian Aerospace, a subsidiary of Eurocopter, and will enter service in 2007-08.

Total NH90 orders are 345 fixed and 86 options from 11 countries.

In December 2003, the NH90 became the first medium-sized transport helicopter to fly with full fly-by-wire controls with no mechanical back-up. This is the serial production configuration.

The primary missions of the NH90 NFH helicopter are in the autonomous anti submarine warfare (ASW) and anti-surface ship warfare (AsuW) role. In the anti-submarine warfare role, the helicopter is capable of carrying out detection, classification, identification tracking and attack of submarines. In a typical four-hour "relocation on call" operation, the helicopter would take 35 minutes to reach the area of operation, 20 minutes to release the sonobuoys, two hours on surveillance in the area of operations, 30 minutes to release the torpedoes and 35 minutes to return to the ship and land, with 20 minute in reserve.

In a typical four-hour "screening" operation, the helicopter would take 15 minutes to reach the area of operation, three hours 30 minutes in the operations zone to carry out eleven consecutive cycles of ten-minute sonar dipping and 15 minutes to return to the ship and land, with 20 minutes in reserve.

In the anti-surface warfare role the helicopter is capable of detection, tracking, classification, identification and attack of hostile ships and has over-the-horizon capability. Secondary roles include anti-air warfare (AAW), vertical replenishment (VERTREP), search and rescue (SAR), troop transport and mine laying.

COCKPIT AND AVIONICS SYSTEMS

The helicopter has a crew of three, the pilot and Tacco (the tactical co-ordinator responsible mission management) and the Senso (sensor systems operator) in the cabin. The cabin of the NFH is equipped with an avionics bay with a sensor operator station and a tactical co-ordinator station, a dipping sonar and a sonobuoy launcher.

The NH90 has "fly-by-wire" all-electric flight controls from Goodrich Actuation Systems and Liebherr Aerospace. This full authority quadruplex system increases the manoeuvrability of the aircraft while decreasing the weight. The avionics system is supplied by Thales Avionics and is based on a dual MIL-STD-1553B digital databus. The cockpit has five 8in x 8in colour multifunction liquid crystal displays for flight, mission systems and maintenance data. A Honeywell Primus 701A weather radar is fitted.

The avionics package includes the Thales Topowl helmet-mounted sight and display which has a 40° field of view. Topowl also equips the Tiger and Rooivalk attack helicopters.

ARMAMENT

The NATO Frigate Helicopter can be armed with anti-submarine torpedoes, air-to-surface missiles and air-to-air missiles.
COUNTERMEASURES SUITE

The helicopters for France, Germany, Italy, Portugal and Finland are fitted with a self-protection suite from EADS Defence Electronics, which is also to equip the Tiger helicopter. The suite includes EADS AN/AAR-60 MILDS missile approach warning system, Thales TWE Threat Warning Equipment with integrated radar warning and laser warning receivers and MBDA Saphir-M chaff and flare dispenser. Norwegian NFH are to have the ITT AN/ALQ-211 Integrated Radio Frequency Countermeasures (IRFCM) suite. Swedish helicopters will be equipped with an EW suite supplied by Saab Avionics, in conjunction with Avitronics of South Africa. Avitronics is jointly owned by Saab and Grintek.

SENSORS

The NFH is equipped with a tactical forward-looking infra-red system (FLIR) mounted in the nose, a magnetic anomaly detector (MAD) and a sonar suite. French Navy NFH will be fitted with the Flash Sonics sonar system from Thales Underwater Systems, which combines the Flash active dipping sonar with the TMS 2000 sonobuoy processing system. The Norwegian and Swedish Navy NFH will also operate a version of the system, Flash-S, optimised for conditions in the Baltic Sea. Dutch, Italian and German NFH will be equipped with the Helicopter Long Range Active Sonar (HELRAS). The HELRAS dipping sonar is supplied by ELAC Nautik of Kiel, Germany, a subsidiary of L-3 Communications.

The NFH is equipped with a Thales Ocean Master 360° surveillance radar mounted under the nose. Swedish NFH will have AN/APS-143B(V)3 Ocean Eye multimode surveillance radar from US company, Telephonics. Ocean Eye has both SAR (Synthetic Aperture Radar) and ISAR (Inverse Synthetic Aperture Radar) imaging modes.

COMMUNICATIONS

The NH90 is equipped with an integrated communications and identification management system. The secure radio system provides air-to-air and air-to-ground communications. The TSC 2000 IFF (Identification Friend or Foe) supplied by Thomson-CSF was developed under German and French co-operation. The helicopter is equipped with a Link 11 secure datalink.

PROPULSION

The NFH Helicopter is powered by two RTM 322-01/9 engines supplied by Rolls-Royce Turbomeca. For the Italian requirement, GE Aircraft Engines and FiatAvio are co-producing another engine model, the T700/T6E1. The engines are fitted with a FADEC engine control system.

The fuel tanks, which hold 1,900kg of fuel, are fitted with crash resistant self-sealing cells supplied by Uniroyal Englebert Reifen based in Aachen, Germany. The fuel management system is by AFG. The auxiliary power unit, (APU), from the Microturbo division of the Labinal Group, provides electrical engine starting and powers the ground operation environmental control system, (ECS).

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/nh90/images/nh1.jpg

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/nh90/images/nh10.jpg

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/nh90/images/nh8.jpg

Nemo

June 15th, 2005, 10:55 PM

http://www.cichw.net/montim1/texelvdvey54.JPG

Dutch Navy.

http://www.wga.hu/art/v/velde/willem/battle_t.jpg

http://www.nmm.ac.uk/mag/images/700/BHC0870_700.jpg

http://www.zeeburgnieuws.nl/specials/scheepvaart/images/zeeoorlog.jpg

http://www.nmm.ac.uk/mag/images/700/BHC0307_700.jpg

http://members.lycos.nl/fsanderse/war/HMS%20de%20Ruyter_2.jpg

http://www.zevenprovincien.nl/indexfoto/Zevenprovincien.jpg

ASIMOV

June 15th, 2005, 11:42 PM

Turkish Navy sucks (since 1571 and 1829 :D)

But still better than many supersuck European navies.

Ringil

June 16th, 2005, 12:47 AM

In September 2001, the NH90 was chosen as the common helicopter for the Nordic Standard Helicopter Programme, for the navies of Norway, Sweden and Finland. Sweden has ordered 18 (13 TTT, five NFH), Finland 20 TTH and Norway 14 NFH (six for ASW and six for the coastguard). In September 2003, Greece ordered 20 NH90 (16 TTH and four Special Operations) plus 14 on option.
Sweden ordered 18+7 NH90s ;)

http://www.hkpflj.mil.se/images/local/hkp14_first_flight_3.jpg

ASIMOV

June 16th, 2005, 01:13 AM

Tourkiki Sea Hawkaki

http://www.tsk.mil.tr/tatbikatlar/denizaslani2004/1b.jpg

ASIMOV

June 16th, 2005, 01:40 AM

Türkische Bundesmarine Blohm & Voss GmbH

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/meko/images/Meko6.jpg

ASIMOV

June 16th, 2005, 02:04 AM

^We're gonna buy more of these Blohm & Voss babes (AAW versions) :okay:

ASIMOV

June 16th, 2005, 04:30 AM

Türkische Bundesmarine Blohm & Voss GmbH Fregaten (Quantity: 8)

http://www.warships.ru/Turkey/Frigates/F247.jpg

Turkish Navy Oliver Hazard Perry Frigates (Quantity: 8)

http://www.warships.ru/Turkey/Frigates/F494.jpg

Turkish Navy Knox Frigates (Quantity: 6)

http://www.warships.ru/Turkey/Frigates/F256.jpg

La Marine Turc Aviso A-69 Fregate (Quantity: 6)

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/avisos/cdtbirot/photo04.jpg

Türkische Bundesmarine Blohm & Voss GmbH U-Boot (Quantity: 14)

http://www.warships.ru/Turkey/Submarines/S353.jpg

Turkish Navy ex-USN submarines (Quantity: 5)

http://www.warships.ru/Turkey/Submarines/S343.jpg

Türkische Bundesmarine Blohm & Voss GmbH Das Missile Boot (Quantity: 24)

http://www.warships.ru/Turkey/Patrol_Craft/P330.jpg

Tekir

June 16th, 2005, 05:01 AM

I think there are 4 Knox frigates now.

ASIMOV

June 16th, 2005, 03:08 PM

There are still 6 of them, but only 4 are on active duty.

ASIMOV

June 16th, 2005, 04:45 PM

Right now Turkey has 28 frigates (14 American, 8 German, 6 French), 19 submarines (14 German, 5 American) and 24 missile ships (24 German)

These vessels are armed with Harpoon SSM, Exocet SSM, Penguin SSM, Sea Sparrow SAM, SM-1MR SAM and ASROC missiles.

The frigates have Sea Hawk helicopters armed with Hellfire II missiles.

Fern

June 16th, 2005, 04:49 PM

Dutch Navy.
http://www.cichw.net/montim1/texelvdvey54.JPG
Certainly amogst the most powerful in the world..

ASIMOV

June 16th, 2005, 05:00 PM

Türkische Bundesmarine Blohm & Voss GmbH Fregaten (Quantity: 8)

http://www.warships.ru/Turkey/Frigates/F247.jpg

Turkish Navy Oliver Hazard Perry Frigates (Quantity: 8)

http://www.warships.ru/Turkey/Frigates/F494.jpg

Turkish Navy Knox Frigates (Quantity: 6)

http://www.warships.ru/Turkey/Frigates/F256.jpg

La Marine Turc Aviso A-69 Fregate (Quantity: 6)

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/avisos/cdtbirot/photo04.jpg

Turkey will purchase 8 more Blohm & Voss frigates (AAW versions), therefore in the near future:

16 Blohm & Voss (German)
8 O. H. Perry (American)
6 Knox (American)
6 Aviso A-69 (French)

Total: 36 frigates

Matthieu

June 16th, 2005, 05:05 PM

Lol, so I know where our Avisos will be going when they'll be replaced by the FREMM.

ASIMOV

June 16th, 2005, 05:07 PM

They are already here since 2000

rocky

June 16th, 2005, 05:08 PM

Question

Is theire a country who has no access on the sea (like switzerland, austria, hungary, kazakstahn (ok a see but a closed one) , or bielorussia, or slovakia, macedonia ), that has a navy?

if not, how can they do exteriors operations? acting abroad to protect their citizens, ect..

Matthieu

June 16th, 2005, 05:10 PM

They are already here since 2000

We built 17 avisos in total, 10 are actually operational, you might have the old ones.

Matthieu

June 16th, 2005, 05:12 PM

After verification, it's the old ones you are using in Turkey.

D'Estienne d'Orves became Beycoz.
Amyot d'Inville became Bartin
Drogou became Bodrum

and so on.

ASIMOV

June 16th, 2005, 05:13 PM

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/avisos/cdtdepimodan/photo05.htm

ASIMOV

June 16th, 2005, 05:14 PM

They are classified as "corvettes" by the Turkish Navy

They were classified as "frigates" by the French Navy

Matthieu

June 16th, 2005, 05:16 PM

That's because we don't use Corvettes here for navy don't you think? Just like our destroyers are named fregates too.

ASIMOV

June 16th, 2005, 05:17 PM

Turkey will use the second-hand French Aviso A-69s only temporarily (until the Milgem corvettes are completed)

Milgem are also, of course, Blohm & Voss :cheers1:

We just love those Zerman boots... :love:

ASIMOV

June 16th, 2005, 05:22 PM

Mercedes ist Mercedes... :yes:

http://www.warships.ru/Turkey/Frigates/F247.jpg

http://www.warships.ru/Turkey/Submarines/S353.jpg

http://www.warships.ru/Turkey/Patrol_Craft/P330.jpg

Matthieu

June 16th, 2005, 05:27 PM

Some other French toys:

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/divers/monge/photo10.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/pr/meuse/photo11.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/pr/var/photo01.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/divers/minrem/photo10.jpg

ASIMOV

June 16th, 2005, 05:30 PM

Renault ships with satellite dishes :lol:

ASIMOV

June 16th, 2005, 05:43 PM

http://www.mercedes-benz.com/content/media_library/mbcom/general/brandmark.object-Single-MEDIA.tmp/logo.gif
http://www.warships.ru/Turkey/Frigates/F247.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/avisos/cdtbirot/photo04.jpg
http://www.autohoods.co.uk/logos/renault.jpg

Matthieu

June 16th, 2005, 05:55 PM

I think you're taking an unwinnable fight there Vasypoo with French ships and German ones, you're just comparing an old recycled 2VC sold to the Turks to a recent E class Mercedes.

Geroplatanos

June 16th, 2005, 05:55 PM

Dear Asimov , perhaps you are good in the army(mountain stories) things but not so good in the navy things... :)

Anyway ,some of your info about turkish navy is not correct (or not updated).
By the way your Private messages space is full , delete some cause i wanted to send you something.

Matthieu

June 16th, 2005, 05:56 PM

How many Asimov can we put in a single 2CV?

Geroplatanos

June 16th, 2005, 06:08 PM

Glad to be of service :)
About what frigates do you want info? The LFC? I'm not really a naval expert, nor do I work for the navy, so I can only point you in the direction of websites. This is probally one of the best with information about the LCFs:
http://www.kitsune.addr.com/LCF/
and this is the website of the builders, it has some information (type/brands) of systems fitted on them:
http://www.scheldeshipbuilding.com

And about the Alreigh Burkes, I take it the talks are about already used ships, and not newly build? I would love to see them transfered here, but will it really happen? The ships are very new (in 1991 the first one was commisioned), I guess they are very expensive (more then the Greeks can afford?) and there are still some Spruances in service with the US navy, would it not make more sence for the Americans to transfere these ships? Could it not be that the reporter(?) misinterpeted it and they were actually talking about Spruances or Kidds? Don't get me wrong, I'd love them to come to Europe, but I really doubt that is going to happen :(

Crownsteller of course we talk about used ships , ( 2 of them)
To be more specific for the ships of early production (DDG-51 was the first in 1991)
The US navy will decomission some few from the first in the next 2 years.
(although there is in plan an upgrade program to keep them for many years still)
The cost would not be so big as you think , (also dont forget that they will come without tomahawk capabilities of course).
The Kidds are too old there is not descussion.
As about Spruances is another option , from the very few of US navy that stil serve.
Anyway these are just scenarios at the moment , but the american defense minister (the famous ramsfeld) seemed positive in the recent talks with the greek minister in washington.
The delivery could happen in Souda base (one of the largest US navy bases in europe) .
A disadvantage is the large crew that these ships need and the cost of maintainance , but the air defense capabilities they offer are like you also said much bigger then the classic frigates mostly because of the use of SM-2 missiles.

ASIMOV

June 16th, 2005, 06:25 PM

If a schiff ist nicht made of Zerman steel, it's a piece of floating poopoo für mich

ASIMOV

June 16th, 2005, 06:38 PM

Chevrolet ships are equally junk when compared with Mercedes ships

Matthieu

June 16th, 2005, 06:41 PM

Can't you stop spamming our military porn thread with your childish scatophily? Did you stay stuck in the anal state?

ASIMOV

June 16th, 2005, 06:47 PM

I think you yourself are stuck with cannons and turrets (dicks and balls) fantasies, Rear Admiral Exarchus :D

ASIMOV

June 16th, 2005, 06:51 PM

I'm a mountain commando, so forgive me if I don't understand much about homo navy stuff :dunno:

SHiRO

June 16th, 2005, 07:17 PM

Asimov, what is it going to take for us to stop you from being the spamfreak from hell?

ASIMOV

June 17th, 2005, 08:39 PM

For steamy Turkish Bath fantasies

http://www.limotransportation.info/limousine-books/affs.php?passing=images.amazon.com/images/P/1557506590.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Matthieu

June 17th, 2005, 08:44 PM

Since we're in our older stuff (this thread seems a little dead).

The Agosta class, diesel powered submarines, Pakistan will use subs based on this model.

S620 Agosta
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/agosta/blason01.jpg

S621 Bévésiers
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/bevezier/blason01.jpg

S622 La Praya
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/lapraya/blason01.jpg

S623 Ouessant
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/ouessant/blason01.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/agosta/photo03.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/bevezier/photo01.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/lapraya/photo04.jpg

Matthieu

June 17th, 2005, 08:53 PM

Our older tactical submarines:

S611 Le Redoutable
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/redoutab/blason01.jpg

S612 Le Terrible
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/terrible/blason01.jpg

S610 Le Foudroyant
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/foudroya/blason01.jpg

S613 L'Indomptable
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/indompta/blason01.jpg

S614 Le Tonnant
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/tonnant/blason01.jpg

S615 L'Inflexible
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/inflexib/blason.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/inflexib/photo01.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/foudroya/photo03.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/redoutab/photo20.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/redoutab/photo12.jpg

ASIMOV

June 17th, 2005, 08:59 PM

Le Froggy

http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/indigo/398/animated/dancing_frog.gif

Matthieu

June 17th, 2005, 09:01 PM

And our old carriers (mostly of different class and La Fayette and Bois Belleau were rather ridiculous):

R95 Arromanches (211m)
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/porteavi/arromanc/blason01.jpg

R96 La Fayette (185m)
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/porteavi/lafayett/blason01.jpg

R97 Bois Belleau (185m)
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/porteavi/bbelleau/blason01.jpg

R98 Clemenceau (265m)
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/porteavi/clem/blason01.jpg

R99 Foch (sold to Brazil, 265m)
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/porteavi/foch/blason01.jpg

Arromanches:
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/porteavi/arromanc/photo20.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/porteavi/arromanc/photo23.jpg

La Fayette
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/porteavi/lafayett/photo10.jpg

Bois Belleau
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/porteavi/bbelleau/photo05.jpg

Clemenceau
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/porteavi/clem/photo05.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/porteavi/clem/photo24.jpg

Foch
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/porteavi/foch/photo24.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/porteavi/foch/photo10.jpg

Matthieu

June 17th, 2005, 09:02 PM

Le Froggy

http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/indigo/398/animated/dancing_frog.gif

That's the new secret weapon we sold to the Turkish navy?

ASIMOV

June 17th, 2005, 09:13 PM

Nothing beats my beloved Le Abdülhamid (1886)

http://wowturkey.com/tr51/Kazandibi_abdulhamidveabdulmecid.jpg

BUILDER: Des Vignes, Chertsey, London

DISPLACEMENT: Surface 100t, submerged 160t

DIMENSIONS: Loa 30.5m, B 3.6m

HULL: Steel

MACHINERY: Steam, 1 shaft

ENGINE: 1-Lamm locomotive type, 250ihp

BOILER: 1 cyl.

SPEED: Surface 6kts, submerged 4kts

BUNKERS: 8t coal

COMPLEMENT: 7

ARMAMENT: 2 TT 356mm (WH) (2), 2-35mm MG (N)

SUBMARINES OF THIS CLASS IN THE OTTOMAN NAVY

Abdülhamid (1886)

Ordered: 23.1.1886
Launched: 6.9.1886

Built as Nordenfeld-2 in sections, fitted by Tersane-i Amire shipyards in Istanbul.

Abdülmecid (1887)

Ordered: 23.1.1886
Launched: 4.8.1887

Built as Nordenfeld-3 in sections, fitted by Tersane-i Amire shipyards in Istanbul.

http://wowturkey.com/tr51/Kazandibi_nordenfeld.jpg

Photo: Le Abdülhamid on the Golden Horn, Istanbul, 1886

Ringil

June 17th, 2005, 10:41 PM

Built as Nordenfeld-3 in sections, fitted by Tersane-i Amire shipyards in Istanbul
Nordenfelt not nordenfeld ;) (after the inventor Thorsten Nordenfelt) and they sucked, the only ones who bought them were Turkey,Greece and Russia, but the russian one sunk just outside the swedish-danish coast.

http://www.submarines.nu/1-30/1-nordenfelt/bilder/nordenfelt-8.jpg
http://www.submarines.nu/1-30/1-nordenfelt/bilder/nordenfelt-9.jpg
Nordenfelt I in Karlsvik 1883

Max BGF

June 17th, 2005, 10:59 PM

If a schiff ist nicht made of Zerman steel, it's a piece of floating poopoo für michJawoll

Matthieu

June 17th, 2005, 11:02 PM

One more prototype, it was our first tactical sub, the Gymnote:

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/gymnote/photo04.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/smarins/gymnote/photo03.jpg

Matthieu

June 18th, 2005, 11:47 AM

The E-2 Hawkeye, we are using them on the Charles de Gaulle for scouting.

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/hawkeye/

E-2C HAWKEYE - AIRBORNE EARLY WARNING AIRCRAFT, USA

The primary role of the E-2C Hawkeye aircraft supplied by Northrop Grumman is as an all-weather airborne early-warning aircraft to the naval task force. From an operating altitude above 25,000ft, the Hawkeye warns the naval task force of approaching air threats and provides threat identification and positional data to fighter aircraft such as F-14 Tomcats. Secondary roles include strike command and control, surveillance, guidance of search and rescue missions and as a relay to extend the range of communications.

The E-2C became operational in 1973. Block II aircraft, with improved engine and radar, entered service in 1992, with final delivery in 2001. As well as the US Navy, E-2C aircraft are in service with the navies of Egypt, France, Israel, Japan, Singapore and Taiwan. Three ex-Israeli Air Force E-2C have been sold to the Mexican Navy, with the first two delivered in June 2004. Deliveries have totalled more than 140 for the USN and more than 30 for other nations.

The aircraft is operated by a crew of five, with the pilot and co-pilot on the flight deck and the combat information centre officer, air control officer and radar operator stations located in the rear fuselage directly beneath the rotodome.

CARRIER OPERATIONS DESIGN

The fuselage is designed for carrier operations and is fitted with a nose-tow catapult attachment for accelerated carrier take-off, an A-frame arrester hook for engagement of the arresting gear and a tail bumper to withstand impact or scraping on the runway. For storage in the hangar, the wings fold hydraulically to lie flat to the fuselage. The fuselage is of light metal construction, and parts of the tailplane are of composite structure in order to reduce radar signature.

From May 2004, US Navy Hawkeye 2000 aircraft are being fitted with two Hamilton Sundstrand NP2000 digitally-controlled, eight-bladed propellers to replace mechanically-controlled, four-bladed propellers. The new propellers provide less vibration and less noise. Initial carrier certification of the new propellers was carried out on USS John F Kennedy in November 2003.

MISSION SYSTEMS

The large 24ft diameter circular antenna radome above the rear fuselage gives the E-2C its distinctive profile. The radome houses the AN/APA-171 antenna supplied by Randtron Systems, which rotates at 5 to 6rpm.

The Lockheed Martin AN/APS-145 radar is capable of tracking more than 2,000 targets and controlling the interception of 40 hostile targets. One radar sweep covers 6 million cubic miles. The radar's total radiation aperture control antenna reduces sidelobes and is robust against electronic countermeasures. It is capable of detecting aircraft at ranges greater than 550km.

The mission computer is equipped with an enhanced high-speed parallel processor. The Lockheed Martin AN/UYQ-70 advanced display system and computer peripherals provide the operators with multicolour displays, map overlays, zoom facilities and auxiliary data displays.

NAVIGATION AND COMMUNICATIONS

A global positioning system and a Northrop Grumman (formerly Litton) AN/ASN-92 CAINS (Carrier Aircraft Inertial Navigation System) are the main components of the aircraft's navigation suite. The aircraft is also equipped with the AN/ASN- 50 heading and attitude reference system, an AN/ARA-50 UHF automatic direction finder from Rockwell Collins, an AN/ASW-25B automatic carrier landing system and a Honeywell AN/APN-171(V) radar altimeter.

The communications suite includes an AN/ARC-158 UHF data link, an AN/ARQ-34 HF datalink and a Joint Tactical Information Distribution System (JTIDS) which provides secure voice and data communications.

ENGINES

The E-2C was originally fitted with two Allison T56-A-425 turboprop engines, but since the introduction of E-2C Group I variants, T56A-427 engines have been fitted. With the new engines, the E-2C can cruise on station for more than four hours, up to 200 miles from base.

HAWKEYE 2000

Major upgrade programmes are continuing to the end of the service life in 2015. The first of the next generation standard, the Hawkeye 2000 (HE2K), was delivered in October 2001. 24 aircraft are on order for the USN, of which 11 have been delivered. The Hawkeye 2000 made its first operational deployment in 2003 aboard USS Nimitz (CVN 68) in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom. Northrop Grumman is also to upgrade a number of USN aircraft to Hawkeye 2000 configuration.

One aircraft has been delivered to the French Navy for operation on the Charles de Gaulle carrier and two E-2Cs already delivered are being upgraded to the 2000 standard. Two aircraft have been ordered for Taiwan, with the first delivered in August 2004. Egypt is to upgrade its five E-2C Hawkeye to Hawkeye 2000 standard and will receive one additional upgraded E-2C. The first upgraded aircraft was delivered in March 2003. The Japanese Air Self Defense Force is also upgrading its 13 Hawkeye aircraft, with the first due for delivery by the end of 2004. The United Arab Emirates has requested five refurbished aircraft, upgraded to Hawkeye 2000 standard.

Hawkeye 2000 features a Raytheon mission computer upgrade (MCU), Lockheed Martin Advanced Control Indicator Set (ACIS), co-operative engagement capability (CEC), satellite communications, new navigation and flight control systems. The MCU is based on open architecture commercial off-the-shelf (COTS) technology, with increased memory and faster processing. The CEC consists of processor, data distribution system and antenna and will enable Hawkeye 2000 to perform real-time battle management, fusing and distributing information from sources such as satellite and shipborne radar.

E-2E ADVANCED HAWKEYE

The next-generation, E-2E Advanced Hawkeye, will have, as well a new radar, theatre missile defence capabilities, multisensor integration and a Northrop Grumman Navigation Systems tactical cockpit. Lockheed Martin Naval Electronics & Surveillance Systems are developing a new solid-state, electronically steered UHF radar under the E-2C Radar Modernization Program (RMP). Northrop Grumman will supply the transmitter, Raytheon the receiver, L-3 Communications Randtron the UHF antenna and BAE Systems CNIR the Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) system.

The new radar began flight testing in July 2002 and the Advanced Hawkeye, equipped with the radar, will replace all 75 USN E-2C aircraft. The aircraft began full System Development and Demonstration (SDD) in August 2003 and is due to enter service in 2011

http://www.netmarine.net/aero/aeronefs/hawkeye/photo09.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/porteavi/cdg/photo88.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/aero/aeronefs/hawkeye/photo03.jpg

Matthieu

June 18th, 2005, 11:54 AM

Our other Naval planes, used for ground and sea attack, the Super Etendard (on the way to be replaced by the Rafale).

http://www.netmarine.net/aero/aeronefs/setendard/photo01.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/aero/aeronefs/setendard/photo11.jpg

http://www.netmarine.net/aero/aeronefs/setendard/photo04.jpg

Crownsteler

June 18th, 2005, 12:11 PM

Shiro, I take it you don't believe in power projection? If so, well whatever, if not, why deny this vital piece of naval power to europe?

anyway, I came across some very nice photos of the LCFs :)
http://www.marine.nl/images/MS%20Evertsen%20110405%20Sloehaven%20Vlissingen%2007_tcm10-12317.jpg
http://home.zonnet.nl/sandromorales/HM-Evertsen-F805-01.jpg
http://home.zonnet.nl/sandromorales/HM-Evertsen-F805-02.jpg
http://home.zonnet.nl/sandromorales/HM-Evertsen-F805-03.jpg
http://home.zonnet.nl/sandromorales/HM-Evertsen-F805-04.jpg
http://home.zonnet.nl/sandromorales/HM-Evertsen-F805-07.jpg
(source (http://www.dutchphotozone.com/viewtopic.php?t=17635&sid=7649b7cb76649533ce5a700907951558))

oh, they are so beautiful, every nation should have atleast one! :D

ASIMOV

June 18th, 2005, 12:25 PM

France using American aircraft... :eek:

What happened to the froggy pride? :D

ASIMOV

June 18th, 2005, 01:03 PM

Nordenfelt not nordenfeld ;) (after the inventor Thorsten Nordenfelt) and they sucked, the only ones who bought them were Turkey,Greece and Russia, but the russian one sunk just outside the swedish-danish coast.

http://www.submarines.nu/1-30/1-nordenfelt/bilder/nordenfelt-8.jpg
http://www.submarines.nu/1-30/1-nordenfelt/bilder/nordenfelt-9.jpg
Nordenfelt I in Karlsvik 1883

:lol:

Geroplatanos

June 18th, 2005, 01:46 PM

Crownsteller thanks for these beautiful photos!!!!
Great warship!!!

PS: In my opinion it is very similar (at least from outside) to the german "sachsen class" frigates.... The obvious diferrences are the bigger gun of LCF (instead of oto melara in the german ones) and the different anti-missile system (rapid guns instead of RAM)

ASIMOV

June 18th, 2005, 02:43 PM

Turkey's secret weapon :D

http://dunyaturk.com/tr12/Burc_deniz_otobusu_0115.jpg

http://dunyaturk.com/tr45/emirhan_55CezayirliHasan.jpg

http://wowturkey.com/tr51/AydinE_Mayis999.jpg

http://dunyaturk.com/tr44/k_Faruk_Oncan_IMG_7522.jpg

http://www.ido.com.tr/image/pic/turgut_ozal_kucuk.jpg

http://www.ido.com.tr/image/pic/turgut_reis_kucuk.jpg

Istanbul Municipality Fast Attack Landing Boats and LPDs :naughty:

Speed: 42 knots
Capacity: 450 passengers - 800 passengers + 200 vehicles

http://www.ido.com.tr

ASIMOV

June 18th, 2005, 02:57 PM

Made in Australia and Turkey, engines by MTU (Daimler-Chrysler)

http://www.ido.com.tr/eng/image/pic/feribot1.gif

http://www.ido.com.tr/eng/image/pic/feribot2.gif

ASIMOV

June 18th, 2005, 04:01 PM

Motör: Mercedes bundestechnologie vorsprung durch superiorischen ausgezeichnet techniken höchtsgeschwindigkeit JAAAAAAAA :happy:

Ringil

June 18th, 2005, 05:57 PM

The most powerful weapon in the swedish navy. It has already taken over half of China, and it hasnt even sailed to the country yet :D
http://www.rnit.se/rwdx/plugins/Album/85.jpg
http://svt.se/content/1/c6/39/84/35/050429ostgbgwebbmilitar.jpg
http://www.soic.se/images/18.302e671045656b91d7fff1269/photo-from-behind.gif
http://www.soic.se/images/18.302e671045656b91d7fff1270/skepp_radhus.gif

Matthieu

July 4th, 2005, 02:25 PM

The old submarine Surcouf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_submarine_Surcouf)

Early career

During the first years of World War II, Surcouf was a French submarine ordered to be built in December 1927, launched 18 October 1929, and commissioned May 1934. At the beginning of World War II, Surcouf was the largest submarine in the world. Her short wartime career is laced with controversy and conspiracy theories.

Surcouf was designed as an "underwater cruiser," intended to seek and engage in surface combat. For the first part of that mission, it carried an observation float plane in a hangar built into the after part of the conning tower; for the second part, it was armed with not only ten torpedo tubes but also a twin eight-inch gun turret forward of the conning tower. The guns were fed from a magazine holding 600 rounds and controlled by a director with a 40-foot rangefinder, mounted high enough to view a seven-mile horizon. In theory, the observation plane could direct fire out to the guns' fifteen-mile maximum range. Antiaircraft cannon and machineguns were mounted on the top of the hangar.

Surcouf also carried a 16-foot motorboat, and contained a cargo compartment with fitting to restrain 40 prisoners. The submarine's fuel tanks were very large; enough fuel for a 10,000-nautical-mile range and supplies for 90-day patrols could be carried.

In 1940, Surcouf was homeported in Cherbourg, but in June, when the Germans invaded, was undergoing refit in Brest, France. With only one engine functioning and with a jammed rudder, she limped across the English Channel and sought refuge in Portsmouth. On 3 July, the British carried out Operation Catapult -- concerned that the French would deliver their fleet to the Kriegsmarine when they surrendered, the Royal Navy blockaded numerous harbors in which French ships were anchored and ordered them to surrender to the British. Most yielded willingly, with two notable exceptions: the North African fleet, which condemned the British "treachery" and suffered hundreds of casualties when the British opened fire, and Surcouf. In capturing the submarine, two British officers and one French sailor were killed. The acrimony between the British and French caused by these actions escalated when the British attempted to repatriate the captured French sailors. The British hospital ship that was carrying them back to France was sunk by the Germans, so the French blamed the British for the deaths.

Career in the Free French Naval Forces

By August 1940, the British completed Surcouf's refit and turned her over to the Free French Naval Forces (Forces Navales Françaises Libres, FNFL) for convoy patrol. The only officer remaining from the original crew, Louis Blaison, became the new commander. Because of the British-French tensions with regard to the submarine, accusations were made by each side that the other was spying for Vichy France; the British added that Surcouf was sinking British ships. A British officer and two sailors were put on board for "liaison" purposes.

In December 1941, Surcouf carried the Free French Admiral Emile-Henri Muselier to Canada, putting in to Quebec City. While the Admiral was in Ottawa, conferring with the Canadian government, Surcouf's captain was approached by famous New York Times reporter Ira Wolfert and questioned about the rumors that the submarine would liberate Saint-Pierre and Miquelon (an archipelago some 30 kilometers off the southeastern shore of Newfoundland). It is highly unlikely that the captain, as some sensational stories have it, kidnapped the reporter, smuggled him to the submarine in the trunk of a car, and imprisoned him aboard, but he did accompany the submarine to Halifax, Nova Scotia where, on 20 December, they joined the Free French corvettes Mimosa, Aconit, and Alysse, and on 24 December handily captured the islands.

United States Secretary of State Cordell Hull, who had just concluded an agreement with the Vichy government for the neutrality of French possessions in the Western hemisphere, threatened to resign unless President of the United States Franklin Roosevelt demanded a restoration of the status quo. Roosevelt did so, but when Charles de Gaulle refused, he dropped the matter. Ira Wolfert's stories, very favorable to the Free French (and bearing no sign of kidnapping or other duress), helped swing American popular opinion away from Vichy.

However, it is rumored — entirely without supporting evidence — that on 1 January 1942, an American destroyer was sent to Saint-Pierre to restore it to Vichy control and was fired upon by Surcouf, killing one or two American sailors. Obviously, the incident would have been hushed up. It is documented, however, that in that month, the Free French decided to send Surcouf to the Pacific theater of war, and she put in to Bermuda for resupply. Her movement south triggered rumors that she was going to liberate Martinique.

On 18 February 1942, Surcouf was lost with all hands. At the time, her loss was the greatest single submarine casualty ever. The investigation commission eventually stated that the Surcouf had been sunk by US planes in the morning of the 18th in "friendly fire", though the official report stated that she left Bermuda on 12 February and was accidentally rammed and sunk by the American freighter Thompson Lykes near the Panama canal (both vessels were running at night with no lights, due to the menace of German U-boats).

Legend

Like so much else about Surcouf, there are alternate stories of her end. Disregarding the predictable ones about her being swallowed by the Bermuda Triangle, one of the most popular is that she was caught in Long Island Sound refueling a German U-boat, and both submarines were sunk, either by the American submarines Mackerel (SS-204) and Marlin (SS-205) or a US Coast Guard blimp.

Many stories add that much of the gold from the French Treasury was in Surcouf's large cargo compartment, and that the wreck was found and entered in 1967 by Jacques Cousteau. Obviously he, too, was persuaded to remain silent.

http://www.subart.net/surcouf.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/60/Surcouf.jpg