View Full Version : Street defecation a growing problem


rt_0891
June 9th, 2005, 03:49 AM
Street defecation a growing problem

Amy Carmichael
Canadian Press

June 8, 2005

VANCOUVER (CP) -- The ripe stench of human excrement is getting stronger in downtown lanes, curling the stomachs of workers who no longer want to relax by the back door for smoke breaks.

"We're getting to the point where the need for public toilets is getting serious," said Charles Gauthier, executive director of the Downtown Vancouver Business Improvement Association.

"There's a burgeoning entertainment district, a growing homelessness problem and people have nowhere to go.

"I've been with the association for 15 years and it's just becoming more and more of an issue for more of our members. The stench of urine and feces in back lanes in the central business district and the Downtown Eastside, where it's probably a lot worse."

The 10-block city slum is swollen with up to 5,000 injection drug users who have less control of their bowels. Many are homeless and have nowhere to go to the toilet.

Often the drug users roam out of the neighbourhood into alleys linking downtown businesses.

Gauthier said his members don't want to clean up the piles excrement the homeless make on their properties and he doesn't blame them.

The Vancouver Coastal Health Authority has gotten involved and is calling for action before disease spreads.

"Defecating and urinating in the street is not something that's healthy for individuals," said Richard Taki, public health protection officer for the authority.

"A number of diseases are passed through the fecal-oral route. If people are tracking this bacteria into eating establishments and public facilities we're running the risk of a problem with rodents and insects carrying bacteria.

"Salmonella is the obvious threat and for a lot of the homeless people who are imunocompromised, food poisoning is going to be serious."

He said a solution, likely portable public toilets, is imminent.

"It's going to be sooner rather than later, it's something we're going ahead with."

City planners met with the business association Wednesday to tell them a range of options will have to be discussed.

"There's a considerable cost involved. In the Downtown Eastside we're going to need a supervised bank of toilets and that's going to cost in excess of $5,000 a month," said Bob Ross, a city engineer working on the issue.

Open urinals are also in the mix of strategies being considered.

"I'm not sure our culture is ready for that. It seems to me it's an undignified and humiliating way of dealing with the problem, but one that also seems to be working in parts of England and Amsterdam," Ross said.

There are logistical and financing challenges in the way of cleaning back lanes.

But the city, the health authority and the business association are all in agreement that something has to be done now.

"It's awful for residents who have to deal with the smell wafting in through their windows and it's just getting so much worse," said Ross.

Stakeholders have been discussing for years a plan to put self-cleaning, automated public toilets in the downtown, but have been afraid that they would be used for prostitution and to shoot drugs.

The city has a contract with a street furniture company to provide six of the units and just has to decide if they are something the community would respect and where to put them.

"There have been problems with illegal activity happening in the toilets in other cities, like Seattle and San Francisco," said Gauthier.

"But now I think we've come to a point in Vancouver where we have to act. The public need far outweighs those concerns. These units are going to be automated and will have a time limit on them. And really, people are going shoot drugs wherever they want."

Vancouver city council has turned to other Canadian municipalities for guidance, but so far nobody has come up with a solution, said Ross.

Vancouver is set to commission a study to map the size of the problem and is considering spending more money on maintaining public toilets in the downtown entertainment and business districts.

More funding is needed for permanent public washrooms in the Downtown Eastside slum where thousands of homeless drug users have long used alleys as toilets.

Kim Kerr, general manager of the Downtown Eastside Resident's Association, said he is disgusted with the plan.

"This is a ghetto where people are turned out to rot, we're talking about adults with the mental capabilities of 10-year-olds who are addicted to drugs. They have no home, they have no toilet. What do you expect," Kerr said.

"We are worrying about the mess of piss in the street while homeless people are dying. Let's spend the money on toilets on houses. We treat human beings in this city with less concern than we show animals."
© Canadian Press 2005

Koz
June 9th, 2005, 06:33 AM
Yeah, I had to take a piss in the DES the other day and had no where to go. Thankfully I made it to the bar in time otherwise I'd have resorted to making my mark on Victory Square (the bathrooms were closed there too).

Guerrero
June 9th, 2005, 07:04 AM
They still have some good bars in that area? I used to go to some of those real scary ones when I was in highschool, the would serve us so what do you expect. There was the old american and the one on the corner ahh I can't remember of course most of those memories are pretty faint.

They should have some of those space age port o poties that they have in Europe. Put a coin in and the door opens.

Koz
June 9th, 2005, 07:56 AM
I was down there barhopping with Jada the other day and we found the bars to be pretty entertaining. For $3 a beer you can't really go wrong, no matter what hole you're drinking in. Apart from the Cambie the rest of the bars are shitty but not particularly "nasty" as one would think. If you ever go to the Dougie and think nothing of it then the bars in the DES won't phase you.

Two words of advice though: bottled beer.

jada
June 9th, 2005, 08:11 AM
Actually I really enjoyed those bars. They were a cultural experience for me, being a white middleclass kid from Victoria. And somehow I felt more welcome among the trashy hastings street bar crowd than I do among the fake n' bakes at the top 40's bars.

But its not like I am going to start hanging out at the bars on hastings street again any time soon, dont get me wrong.

rt_0891
June 10th, 2005, 03:19 AM
City eyes open-air public urinals
Vancouver council ready to act on growing human waste problem downtown

Amy Carmichael and Darah Hansen
Canadian Press and Vancouver Sun

Thursday, June 09, 2005

Open urinals such as those found on the streets of Amsterdam and London are being considered for Vancouver to help relieve a pressing problem with the lack of public toilets in the city's downtown core.

"It's a logical idea," said Coun. Jim Green of the open urinal concept, one of several options the city is considering as it struggles to balance a need for public toilets with the need to keep the facilities safe and clean, without breaking the civic bank.

According to Bob Ross, an engineer contracted by the city to look into the human waste issue, there's a considerable cost involved -- in excess of $5,000 a month --in supplying supervised toilets. Unsupervised, the city runs the risk of having the facilities used for criminal purposes such as prostitution or drug use.

But will Canadians be moved to embrace a more public solution to a personal urge?

Ross is skeptical.

"I'm not sure our culture is ready for that," he said.

"It seems to me it's an undignified and humiliating way of dealing with the problem, but one that also seems to be working in parts of England and Amsterdam."

Public urination and defecation -- and the stomach-curling stench it creates -- in Vancouver's downtown core is fast becoming the city's number-one concern.

So urgent is the issue, Vancouver city council is set to commission a study to map the size of the problem and is considering spending more money on maintaining public toilets in the downtown entertainment and business districts as well as the Downtown Eastside, where thousands of homeless drug users have long used alleys as toilets.

"I've seen it first-hand, so this really needs to be addressed in a comprehensive way," said Coun. Raymond Louie, who nearly stumbled over human feces while touring Chinatown recently.

Charles Gauthier, executive director of the Downtown Vancouver Business Improvement Association, said workers downtown can't hold on for a solution much longer.

"We're getting to the point where the need for public toilets is getting serious," Gauthier said.

"There's a burgeoning entertainment district, a growing homelessness problem and people have nowhere to go.

"I've been with the association for 15 years and it's just becoming more and more of an issue for more of our members -- the stench of urine and feces in back lanes in the central business district and the Downtown Eastside, where it's probably a lot worse."

The 10-block urban slum is swollen with up to 5,000 injection drug users who have less control of their bowels. Many are homeless and have nowhere to go to the toilet.

Often the drug users roam out of the neighbourhood into alleys linking downtown businesses.

Gauthier said his members don't want to clean up the pools of urine and piles of excrement the homeless make on their properties, and he doesn't blame them.

The Vancouver Coastal Health Authority has become involved and is calling for action before disease spreads.

"Defecating and urinating in the street is not something that's healthy for individuals," said Richard Taki, public health protection officer for the authority.

"A number of diseases are passed through the fecal-oral route.

"If people are tracking this bacteria into eating establishments and public facilities, we're running the risk of a problem with rodents and insects carrying bacteria.

"Salmonella is the obvious threat and for a lot of the homeless people who are immunocompromised, food poisoning is going to be serious."

He said a solution, likely portable public toilets, is imminent.

"It's going to be sooner rather than later, it's something we're going ahead with."

© The Vancouver Sun 2005

ssiguy2
June 10th, 2005, 03:57 AM
It would be a good start.
This however is just a result of a much larger problem, homelessness which this province certainly doesn't give a "s..t" about, pun intended.

VicHockeyFan
June 10th, 2005, 04:20 PM
It would be a good start.
This however is just a result of a much larger problem, homelessness which this province certainly doesn't give a "s..t" about, pun intended.

Oh, come on...... I can't imagine any place that has more services for the homeless than this province.

Guerrero
June 10th, 2005, 08:39 PM
User pay toilets like in France and Germany. Drop your quarter in and the door opens. That way the system isn't a burden. Also there are quite few different types and they look quite nice on a sidewalk. Also if you make someone pay there are fewer people that are going to abuse them.

cxhtdui
June 11th, 2005, 01:42 AM
User pay toilets like in France and Germany. Drop your quarter in and the door opens. That way the system isn't a burden. Also there are quite few different types and they look quite nice on a sidewalk. Also if you make someone pay there are fewer people that are going to abuse them.
There will also not be very many homeless people wishing to spend money on a toilet when they could piss in the street.

Guerrero
June 11th, 2005, 02:26 AM
^ You are assuming that most of the people that use the street as a washroom are homeless. I would bet that the larger problem is with Drunks after the bar using alleyways. In Victoria most of the stuff you see on the street is Saturday morning and it is certainly caused by the bar crowd not the homeless.

I think that most homeless people are not going to go around spoiling where they live. Why do you think Victory Square is such a great hang out spot for them. Close proximity to a washroom.

ssiguy2
June 11th, 2005, 02:46 AM
I think the problem are bowel movements not peeing.
Vancouver has a massive homeless population mostly due to its huge drug problem and the Downtown Eastside having the highest HIV/AIDS rate in the western world.

jada
June 11th, 2005, 04:46 AM
Today this man came into my work and asked me if we have long burning insense. I asked him why he needed it.. he said so he can burn it in the alleys in gastown to cover up the stench.

Guerrero
June 11th, 2005, 04:58 AM
That is insane! I guess i can't truly understand how bad the problem as I haven't been to downtown Van for about year. Maybe the city needs to build some more public toilets that are open 24hrs.

Koz
June 11th, 2005, 08:49 AM
These "problems" have always been there. The difference now is we're seeing a large push for redevelopment of the area. As urbanites push further and further east on the peninsula they start to notice characteristics of their new neighbourhood.

I've been going to the DES ever since I made my first solo trip to Vancouver in 98 (I was 15?) and consider that area a goldmine for various stores and photo-ops. Did it stink like crap back then? Yup, but nobody gave a damn.

ssiguy2
June 11th, 2005, 10:47 PM
True.
The only thing that is making the province to finally aknowlidge the problem is that now the cruiseships are telling people to avoid Gastown and Chinatown.
With the Olympics coming the province want to keep up the myth that Vancouver is such a pretty and clean city.

worldwide
June 12th, 2005, 03:30 AM
i havent noticed yet, but im going downtown right now, mabey ill smell the shit........hopefully

Mock
June 12th, 2005, 04:01 AM
^ Vancouver. Come for the olympics, stay for the smell. Hopefully. :)

helsnkiborg
October 10th, 2005, 07:36 AM
yesterday's news that one guy waiting for bus at 3 a.m. in DTE was stabbed to death. what shift ends at that hours? niteclub? it does not appeared to be robbery. :eek2:

Mock
October 10th, 2005, 08:08 AM
What's the connection between the stabbing and street defecation?

helsnkiborg
October 10th, 2005, 08:57 AM
they occurred on certain corner of the city .. downtown.

Mock
October 10th, 2005, 09:38 AM
Lots of stuff happens in the downtown...