Shalom meeting a small step toward Pakistan ties
By HERB KEINON

Israel doesn't see Pakistan as an enemy, but rather as an important country in the Muslim world with which it is interested in normalizing ties, Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev said Sunday.

Regev's comments came a day after Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom met with Pakistani Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz on the sidelines of the World Economic Forum in Davos.

While Israeli officials confirmed the meeting took place, they did not reveal its content.

"We are interested in normalizing relations with Pakistan on the basis of equality and mutual respect," Regev said. "The ball is in their court; we are ready to move."

The Shalom-Aziz meeting followed by a day the publication of an interview in Jang, a leading Pakistani paper, with Vice Prime Minister Shimon Peres, during which Peres said Israel and Pakistan should have "direct, personal contact, publicly, without being ashamed about it."

The paper's on-line edition said that "Peres's comments on Pakistan-Israel relations come as the latest sound byte in an ongoing debate about whether mainly Muslim Pakistan should consider recognizing Israel if the fledgling Middle East peace plan remained on track."

Peres shook hands and exchanged words with Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf at last year's Davos meeting, but the Shalom-Aziz meeting went beyond just a passing conversation in a hotel corridor.

GEO Tv is part of the same media group as Jang, and aired an interview with Peres in 2003.

In the Jang interview, Peres said "there is no shame in peace; we should reach full normalization."

Asked whether Israel would accept a Pakistani role in the peace process, Peres said, "First and prior to anything, Pakistan has to decide to have contacts with both sides – and that's before playing a part in the Middle East peace process; it cannot play a role without having relationships with all the entities involved."

He added that since Israel has been able to develop close contacts with Turkey, which is also a Muslim state, there is no reason why the same could not be the case with Pakistan.

Last month, another Pakistani paper, the Daily Khabrain, published an interview with Amira Oren, director of the Foreign Ministry's Arabic press and information department.

Oren was quoted as saying Israel "would warmly welcome any gesture of good will from Pakistan to normalize the relationship."

There has been much speculation in Jerusalem over the last two years as to Pakistani motives following an increase in overtures from Islamabad.

Hardline Islamic groups in Pakistan, however, harshly criticized the idea.

At the time, Musharraf's comment was interpreted in Jerusalem as an attempt to gain good will in Washington. Regev said that any normalization of ties with Pakistan would "in no way interfere with or come at the expense of our good relationships with other countries on the sub-continent."

Abbas seeks Pakistan's "greater role" in Mideast peace process

http://www.asiantribune.com/news/14490-2.jpg

ISLAMABAD (Xinhuanet) -- Palestinian Leader Mahmoud Abbas here Thursday said Pakistan can play a greater role in bringing peace to the Middle East, according to the Associated Press of Pakistan.

In a brief chat with reporters in Islamabad after meeting Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz, Abbas said his country would like Pakistan to play its role as it "enjoys greater political weight amongstthe international leadership."

He said "We believe that like the United States, Europe and other countries, which are trying to reactivate the peace process, Pakistan too can play a greater role."

He added that his country would see how far Pakistan can help in resolving issues and how it can be more effective. Abbas said the Palestinians desire resolving all outstanding issues with Israel through a negotiated peace process. In his around 40 minutes talks with Aziz, Abbas discussed bilateral issues, the prevailing situation and the need to seek an early resolution of the Palestinian issue.

Aziz assured that Pakistan will continue to extend support for the cause of the Palestinian people on international forums. He said Pakistan has always been supportive of seeking a peaceful resolution of issues of Palestine and Kashmir through talks and that it will continue to do so.

The Palestinian leader, who is on a day-long visit to Pakistan, earlier held detailed talks with President Pervez Musharraf about the latest developments and the ongoing peace process in the Middle East. Enditem

I wish we will see normalization with all Muslim states. That would lead to de-legitimating of terrorism and peace with Palestinians.
But why do the Pakistanis want to have a role in our conflict-solving.. what is their interest?

Pakistan and Israel are not enemies. We just don't talk. But, if the Palestine issue needs to be resolved, then Pakistan must recognize Israel, which I hope President Musharraf does.

Pakistan's interest in Palestine is non other than resolving disputes in the Middle Eastern region. We want peace to prevail. The world will head no where if there is terrorism.

I hope we can setup trade ties ASAP. Even our Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) used to trade with the Jews, so I don't see why we can't ? ;)

good luck to israeli-pakistani relations!

I am sure everyone in Israel appreciates Pakistan’s concern about the conflict. there is a lot of economic potential in such relations too. Your right, there is not reason to act otherwise :)

does this mean the pakistani recognition of israel? Or has this already happened?

Again i think this could be the forming of a triangle between israel,another country and pakistan.

if pakistan recognizes isreal. isreal should recognize Punjab.

Pfft on all those involved in this process.

what is PFFT, a bad word?

if pakistan recognizes isreal. isreal should recognize Punjab.
Why? What is the connection?

because Punjab is good

It seems like a good move :okay:

It seems like a good move :okay:

Yeah Punjab is finally going to recognized by isrealis. :cheers:

^^ :lol:

What does Punjab have to do with this? Doesnt Israel recognise Punjab? and I share Bulldozergirls views.

I think Raza is trying to say is that Punjabis dominate Pakistan. He means to say that the Punjabis ignore the Baloch, Sindhis etc.

PS: Isn't raza zuhahmed.

PS: Isn't raza zuhahmed.

Yes, he is.

lol :laugh: I wasn't able to grasp the sarcasm.

I think Raza is trying to say is that Punjabis dominate Pakistan. He means to say that the Punjabis ignore the Baloch, Sindhis etc.

PS: Isn't raza zuhahmed.

no, i am his brother. and no i am not saying that punjabis dominate pakistan.
and who said i am talking about the pakistani punjab, i am saying that they should recognize punjab as a whole in india and pakistan.

Pakistan and Israel are not enemies. We just don't talk. But, if the Palestine issue needs to be resolved, then Pakistan must recognize Israel, which I hope President Musharraf does.

Pakistan's interest in Palestine is non other than resolving disputes in the Middle Eastern region. We want peace to prevail. The world will head no where if there is terrorism.

I hope we can setup trade ties ASAP. Even our Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) used to trade with the Jews, so I don't see why we can't ? ;)

I have two points here. First, normalization isnt the proper word because the relation wasnt normal before to normalizate it.

Second, if pakistan wants to have a relation with Isreal that is its choice; however; dont stick Islam within it. It is true that muslims used to trade with jews. The situation is completly different here,you remembered a tiny part of the story while forgetting almost all of it. When a jewsih guy harresed a muslim lady in Madina, prophet Mohammed PBUH declared war against them. Now jews are harrasing dozen of muslim ladies in palestine so, putting Islam here isnt acceptable. Plz do me a favor and dont stick Islam with pakistan's relation with Israel.

^^ loads of bullshit...

I have two points here. First, normalization isnt the proper word because the relation wasnt normal before to normalizate it.

Second, if pakistan wants to have a relation with Isreal that is its choice; however; dont stick Islam within it. It is true that muslims used to trade with jews. The situation is completly different here,you remembered a tiny part of the story while forgetting almost all of it. When a jewsih guy harresed a muslim lady in Madina, prophet Mohammed PBUH declared war against them. Now jews are harrasing dozen of muslim ladies in palestine so, putting Islam here isnt acceptable. Plz do me a favor and dont stick Islam with pakistan's relation with Israel.

Interesting how he can't use Islam to back up his word's, but you can?

^

It seems that u dont understand. Here we go again. Muslims DO trade with jews however they DONT if their people, muslim brothers are HARRASSED by jews. I gave my previous post as an example. That is why Sultan cannot talk about the relation in the name of Islam. He can talk about it in the name of pakistan. GOT IT?

I have two points here. First, normalization isnt the proper word because the relation wasnt normal before to normalizate it.

Second, if pakistan wants to have a relation with Isreal that is its choice; however; dont stick Islam within it. It is true that muslims used to trade with jews. The situation is completly different here,you remembered a tiny part of the story while forgetting almost all of it. When a jewsih guy harresed a muslim lady in Madina, prophet Mohammed PBUH declared war against them. Now jews are harrasing dozen of muslim ladies in palestine so, putting Islam here isnt acceptable. Plz do me a favor and dont stick Islam with pakistan's relation with Israel.

I agree with you a 100%! How can we have normal relations with a country that is waging a bloody war against our Muslim brothers. In the interest of recognizing Israel people always bring up the fact that the Prophet Muhd. (PBUH) used to trade with jews, whilest totally forgetting all the wars that we fought and continue to fight till this day. So smussuw has a very valid point.

Many Palestinians are trading with Jews, they need the money. Are they infidels?
And what about the Israeli Arabs? Who will they trade with?

I agree with you a 100%! How can we have normal relations with a country that is waging a bloody war against our Muslim brothers.
No one is waging a bloody war against your brothers..

No one is waging a bloody war against your brothers..

Amazing how you can just shun the reality "by saying nobody is waging war against anyone". Thats not naivity nor is it ignorance its just a blatant lie. You mean to say that all the killings in that region we hear about every single day in the news are all lies? Seriously man who are you kidding here?

^

He will say that they are cleaning the area from terrorists.

My point is not about Pakistan's relation with Isreal. It is about having the relation in the name of Islam.

I agree with you a 100%! How can we have normal relations with a country that is waging a bloody war against our Muslim brothers. In the interest of recognizing Israel people always bring up the fact that the Prophet Muhd. (PBUH) used to trade with jews, whilest totally forgetting all the wars that we fought and continue to fight till this day. So smussuw has a very valid point.


So does Palestinian = Muslim? Isn't there Christian or Atheist Palestinians?
what about them?

^

It seems that u dont understand. Here we go again. Muslims DO trade with jews however they DONT if their people, muslim brothers are HARRASSED by jews. I gave my previous post as an example. That is why Sultan cannot talk about the relation in the name of Islam. He can talk about it in the name of pakistan. GOT IT?

And you can talk about fighting Israel in the name of Palestine...

So does Palestinian = Muslim? Isn't there Christian or Atheist Palestinians?
what about them?

Yeah there are christians in Palestine but the Israeli Army doesnt discriminate between Christian or Muslim when they level their houses and kill them for protesting it. So it doesnt really matter.

And you can talk about fighting Israel in the name of Palestine...


People wont fight in the name of palestine. They do in the name of the muslims. Infact if palestine wasnt Islamic people would have forgotten in and no one would even rememeber a place called palestine.

I've always said if u dont believe in the Islamic brotherhood that is ur problem. Most of the muslims DO believe in it.

What about when muslim brothers fight against each other.

People wont fight in the name of palestine. They do in the name of the muslims. Infact if palestine wasnt Islamic people would have forgotten in and no one would even rememeber a place called palestine.

I've always said if u dont believe in the Islamic brotherhood that is ur problem. Most of the muslims DO believe in it.

Interesting, how arab's belive in the muslim brootherhood when it suits them.

And when you say: Infact if palestine wasnt Islamic people would have forgotten in and no one would even rememeber a place called palestine.

It's funny actually, this kind of contradicts something you said earlier...

Fighting Israel's existance in the name of Islam isn't diffrent than having relations with Israel in the name of Islam.

What about when muslim brothers fight against each other.

How is that related to this thread?

double post please delete

Interesting, how arab's belive in the muslim brootherhood when it suits them.

And when you say: Infact if palestine wasnt Islamic people would have forgotten in and no one would even rememeber a place called palestine.

It's funny actually, this kind of contradicts something you said earlier...

Fighting Israel's existance in the name of Islam isn't diffrent than having relations with Israel in the name of Islam.

You fail to understand what smussuw was saying. He merely said that using Islam or religion or quoting something from Islamic history to justify what their saying is wrong. Because in doing so they neglect events such as the wars that Muslims fought against the jews rather they shed light only on the trade that the Muslims carried out with jews.

Fact of the matter is that whether Pakistan wants to establish contacts with Israel or not is upto Pakistan to decide.

You fail to understand what smussuw was saying. He merely said that using Islam or religion or quoting something from Islamic history to justify what their saying is wrong. Because in doing so they neglect events such as the wars that Muslims fought against the jews rather they shed light only on the trade that the Muslims carried out with jews.


Actually i didn't fail to understand anything, i was just reminding him that since the Quran clearly say that Israel belongs to the Jews, that fighting it's existance based on Islam is just as wrong.

Actually i didn't fail to understand anything, i was just reminding him that since the Quran clearly say that Israel belongs to the Jews, that fighting it's existance based on Islam is just as wrong.

:sleepy: Thats the most ignorant and ridiculious thing I have ever heard. Quote the verses of the Quran where it says that.

:sleepy: Thats the most ignorant and ridiculious thing I have ever heard. Quote the verses of the Quran where it says that.

Alrigty, you got it :okay:

Though, it's the second time in like 3 days:

The Quran teaches clearly that :

Israel is the name of a great prophet. Therefore every Muslim should love this name:

19:58 Those were some of the prophets on whom God did gave His Grace,- of the descendents of Adam, and of those who We carried (in the Ark) with Noah, and of the descendents of Abraham and Israel of those whom We guided and chose. Whenever the Signs of ((God)) Most Gracious were rehearsed to them, they would fall down in prostrate adoration and in tears. )

The Jews are God’s preferred people and that God has chosen them and preferred them above all mankind:

2:47 Children of Israel! Call to mind the favour which I gave you, and that I preferred you to all other nations.

2:122 O Children of Israel! Call to mind the favour that I gave you, and that I preferred you to all other nations.

44: 32 And We have chosen them (the Children of Israel) above the 'Alamîn (mankind, and jinni) and our choice was based on deep knowledge

The holy land is the promise of God to the Israelites. Furthermore, the Quran teaches that God has given it to them as inheritance and has written it to them as a permanent contract.

17:104 And We said thereafter to the Children of Israel, "Dwell securely in the land of promise":

7:137 And We made the children of Israel, who were considered weak (and of no account), inheritors of lands in both east and west, - lands whereon We sent down Our blessings. The fair promise of thy Lord was fulfilled for the Children of Israel, because they had patience and constancy, and We leveled to the ground the great works and fine buildings which Pharaoh and his people erected (with such pride ).

5:21 "O my people (the Jews)! Enter the holy land which God has written to you (as a permanent contract)”.

The Jews are the Guiding Lights for humanity and for other nations:

[32.23] And certainly We gave the Book to Moses, so be not in doubt concerning the receiving of it, and We made it a guide for the children of Israel.

[32.24] And We made of them Guiding Lights and leaders to guide by Our command as they were patient, and they were certain of Our communications.

The Quran declared clearly that God will gather the Israelites into their promised land before the end days:

Quran [17:104] And we said to the Children of Israel afterwards, “ scatter and live all over the world…and when the end of the world is near we will gather you again into the Promised Land”.

...Happy?

I think Raza is trying to say is that Punjabis dominate Pakistan. He means to say that the Punjabis ignore the Baloch, Sindhis etc.

PS: Isn't raza zuhahmed.

It's very true. Pakistan is Punjabi dominated, even though Sindh provides majority of the income to the country...

Alrigty, you got it :okay:

Though, it's the second time in like 3 days:

The Quran teaches clearly that :

Israel is the name of a great prophet. Therefore every Muslim should love this name:

19:58 Those were some of the prophets on whom God did gave His Grace,- of the descendents of Adam, and of those who We carried (in the Ark) with Noah, and of the descendents of Abraham and Israel of those whom We guided and chose. Whenever the Signs of ((God)) Most Gracious were rehearsed to them, they would fall down in prostrate adoration and in tears. )

The Jews are God’s preferred people and that God has chosen them and preferred them above all mankind:

2:47 Children of Israel! Call to mind the favour which I gave you, and that I preferred you to all other nations.

2:122 O Children of Israel! Call to mind the favour that I gave you, and that I preferred you to all other nations.

44: 32 And We have chosen them (the Children of Israel) above the 'Alamîn (mankind, and jinni) and our choice was based on deep knowledge

The holy land is the promise of God to the Israelites. Furthermore, the Quran teaches that God has given it to them as inheritance and has written it to them as a permanent contract.

17:104 And We said thereafter to the Children of Israel, "Dwell securely in the land of promise":

7:137 And We made the children of Israel, who were considered weak (and of no account), inheritors of lands in both east and west, - lands whereon We sent down Our blessings. The fair promise of thy Lord was fulfilled for the Children of Israel, because they had patience and constancy, and We leveled to the ground the great works and fine buildings which Pharaoh and his people erected (with such pride ).

5:21 "O my people (the Jews)! Enter the holy land which God has written to you (as a permanent contract)”.

The Jews are the Guiding Lights for humanity and for other nations:

[32.23] And certainly We gave the Book to Moses, so be not in doubt concerning the receiving of it, and We made it a guide for the children of Israel.

[32.24] And We made of them Guiding Lights and leaders to guide by Our command as they were patient, and they were certain of Our communications.

The Quran declared clearly that God will gather the Israelites into their promised land before the end days:

Quran [17:104] And we said to the Children of Israel afterwards, “ scatter and live all over the world…and when the end of the world is near we will gather you again into the Promised Land”.

...Happy?


You're quoting verses out of context. These verses were referring to the Children of Israel in the past. The verses following these say that the Children of Israel didn't obey the orders, so it was taken away from them.

Anyway, all of you shut up. The article said there're plans for normalization of Pakistani-Israeli relations. It's up to the Pakistani government to decide such a thing, so stop being double faced and go berserk in religious arguments in some threads and accuse me of being berserk in another.

All of you shut up. Your discussion is not related to the topic. If you don't like what you're reading, use the X button in the corner of the screen.

Alrigty, you got it :okay:

Though, it's the second time in like 3 days:

The Quran teaches clearly that :

Israel is the name of a great prophet. Therefore every Muslim should love this name:

19:58 Those were some of the prophets on whom God did gave His Grace,- of the descendents of Adam, and of those who We carried (in the Ark) with Noah, and of the descendents of Abraham and Israel of those whom We guided and chose. Whenever the Signs of ((God)) Most Gracious were rehearsed to them, they would fall down in prostrate adoration and in tears. )

The Jews are God’s preferred people and that God has chosen them and preferred them above all mankind:

2:47 Children of Israel! Call to mind the favour which I gave you, and that I preferred you to all other nations.

2:122 O Children of Israel! Call to mind the favour that I gave you, and that I preferred you to all other nations.

44: 32 And We have chosen them (the Children of Israel) above the 'Alamîn (mankind, and jinni) and our choice was based on deep knowledge

The holy land is the promise of God to the Israelites. Furthermore, the Quran teaches that God has given it to them as inheritance and has written it to them as a permanent contract.

17:104 And We said thereafter to the Children of Israel, "Dwell securely in the land of promise":

7:137 And We made the children of Israel, who were considered weak (and of no account), inheritors of lands in both east and west, - lands whereon We sent down Our blessings. The fair promise of thy Lord was fulfilled for the Children of Israel, because they had patience and constancy, and We leveled to the ground the great works and fine buildings which Pharaoh and his people erected (with such pride ).

5:21 "O my people (the Jews)! Enter the holy land which God has written to you (as a permanent contract)”.

The Jews are the Guiding Lights for humanity and for other nations:

[32.23] And certainly We gave the Book to Moses, so be not in doubt concerning the receiving of it, and We made it a guide for the children of Israel.

[32.24] And We made of them Guiding Lights and leaders to guide by Our command as they were patient, and they were certain of Our communications.

The Quran declared clearly that God will gather the Israelites into their promised land before the end days:

Quran [17:104] And we said to the Children of Israel afterwards, “ scatter and live all over the world…and when the end of the world is near we will gather you again into the Promised Land”.

...Happy?

Validating Authenticity........

You're quoting verses out of context. These verses were referring to the Children of Israel in the past. The verses following these say that the Children of Israel didn't obey the orders, so it was taken away from them.

Anyway, all of you shut up. The article said there're plans for normalization of Pakistani-Israeli relations. It's up to the Pakistani government to decide such a thing, so stop being double faced and go berserk in religious arguments in some threads and accuse me of being berserk in another.

All of you shut up. Your discussion is not related to the topic. If you don't like what you're reading, use the X button in the corner of the screen.

My point exactly! Why are you involving Islam in something that is not related to it? Recognizing Israel (Sorry made a mistake) is a decision the Pakistani Government and people have to make.

My point exactly! Why are you involving Islam in something that is not related to it? Recognizing Israel (Sorry made a mistake) is a decision the Pakistani Government and people have to make.


And fighting the existance of Israel, is a decision and action the Palestinian's and Arab's have made.

And fighting the existance of Israel, is a decision and action the Palestinian's and Arab's have made.

Yes and religion is the binding force between Palestinians and Pakistanis.

Yes and religion is the binding force between Palestinians and Pakistanis.

Good for you! :cool:
Not that it has anything to do with what i said, but good for you.
And good luck in destroying Israel.

^

:hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha:

:hahano: I never said I oppose the existence of Israel. I just want pakistan to stay out of this fiasco until peace is brokered between Palestine and Israel. We had a similar thread in the Pakistan Sub-forum, and I expressed the same views over there.

Good for you! :cool:
Not that it has anything to do with what i said, but good for you.
And good luck in destroying Israel.
:rofl:

:hahano: I never said I oppose the existence of Israel.

Really cus i think we should go back and see what i wrote and then what you wrote..shall we?

Ok:
And fighting the existance of Israel, is a decision and action the Palestinian's and Arab's have made.
Note that i had already highlighted the word existance back then...

And as i said fighting the existance of Israel is a choice Palestinans and some arab's have made, it has nothing to do with Islam.

Then you say:

Yes and religion is the binding force between Palestinians and Pakistanis.

It doesn't really have anything to do with what i said;

What I said was that fighting the existance of Israel is a choice Palestinians and arab's have made, but your response was "that the binding force between Palestinians and Pakistanis is religion".

So basically i'm talking about some Palestinian individuals wish to destroy another country while your saying that palestinians are your brothers.

Really cus i think we should go back and see what i wrote and then what you wrote..shall we?

Yes I am aware of what I wrote and I am also aware that you mentioned the word "existence" in your reply. Now the reason why I didnt comment on it is merely because this thread has the potential to become an Israel bashing thread. And I did not want to elaborate on the intentions of the Muslims because if I had then this thread would have become a warzone between Israeli's and Muslims.

There was a poll in the Pakistan Sub-forum about whether Pakistan should recognise Israel or not? Following is the link to it http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=171168&page=3&pp=20

My arguments are on page 3. If you go through my arguments on that page then you will see that my opinion has not changed a bit, it is the same as it was back then. I stated in that thread also that Pakistan should wait until peace is brokered between Palestine and Israel and then it should start thinking about relations with Israel.

So No I am not of the opinion that Israel should not exist. Israel can exist but they need to end the attrocities against the Palestinians and they need to give them their land back. I am not an extremist.

i think India should recognize kashmir, before pakistan recognizes isreal.

i think India should recognize kashmir, before pakistan recognizes isreal.

I fail to understand the ramifications of such an undertaking? :dunno:

why?????????????? > / @&%

I fail to understand the ramifications of such an undertaking? :dunno:

Forget this R*$A :weirdo: ..

He makes no sense.. :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :runaway:

^

He will say that they are cleaning the area from terrorists.

"One Man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" ..


Guess who?? :)

"One Man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" ..


Guess who?? :)


one man's mommy's is other man's wife. so what??????????

So No I am not of the opinion that Israel should not exist. Israel can exist but they need to end the attrocities against the Palestinians and they need to give them their land back. I am not an extremist.
The problem with your idea is that is simply a misinterpretation of reality. Who attacked whom in 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973, from Lebanon in 1980s, the first Intifada, from Iraq in 1992, the 2nd Intifada, and still from Hezbolla in Lebanon? These attacks, which are a continuation from the very first one in 1948 clearly show that the issue is with the Arab world, not with the "attrocities against the Palestinians", as you put it.

Although you may fool yourselves into believing your myopic view of the world and of world events, Israel is under no obligation to share those same delusions.

^

Who stole part of the land in 1948? who stole all of it in 1967?

one man's mommy's is other man's wife. so what??????????

Lol

I didn't know that palestine was existing in 1948:
What was its national anthem,its president,how many embassies did it have?

^

Who stole part of the land in 1948? who stole all of it in 1967?
Jordan is the only country that actually stole land in 1948. The Arabs tried to steal land from Israel in 1967 (and 1956, 1973, and ever since.), but Israel stopped them.

Let me know when you have more questions. You may actually begin to understand the truth.

^^

We all know who did :D :D :D abviously it wasnt any Islamic country.

^^

We all know who did :D :D :D abviously it wasnt any Islamic country.
Obviously you don't know, so how can you say "We all know". There is no question that Jordan stole land. The whole world knows they stole the land set aside for the Palestinian country. They kept the Arabs in refugee camps even though they pushed them into the camps. These things are undisputed.

^^

Unfortuantly I know.

Jordan stole 20% which was the west bank (I dont considre it a stole because all the islamic countries are the same)

Isreal stole 80% in 1948.


pity u dont know that.

^^

Unfortuantly I know.

Jordan stole 20% which was the west bank (I dont considre it a stole because all the islamic countries are the same)

Isreal stole 80% in 1948.


pity u dont know that.
It is good to have it in writing from you that theft and crime by Islamic countries are not considered theft and crimes by you. I suppose if you hallucinate enough then anything can be anything you want it to be.

Israel did not steal 80% of anything. That is illogical. You cannot show that on any map. And you cannot show that Jordan only stole 20% of the west bank. Go back and look at maps.

It is good to have it in writing from you that theft and crime by Islamic countries are not considered theft and crimes by you. I suppose if you hallucinate enough then anything can be anything you want it to be.

Israel did not steal 80% of anything. That is illogical. You cannot show that on any map. And you cannot show that Jordan only stole 20% of the west bank. Go back and look at maps.


You have raised some interesting points, from a nationalistic perspective what Jordan did is considered expansionist however from a religious perspective a Muslim nation Ruling a another is not considered "expansionist" by any claims. In around 1850's the Jewry Council offered to purchase a strip of land of what is modern day Israel to the Ottoman Empire the Sultanate rejected it. Looking back at it Perhaps the Ottomans should of sold the land to the Jews that way we wouldn't of had this conflict. Regardless you can not disagree with the fact that Modern day Israel was not under the Control of a Jewish state before the British decided to create one. I think that is what our Arab friend is trying to say.

You have raised some interesting points, from a nationalistic perspective what Jordan did is considered expansionist however from a religious perspective a Muslim nation Ruling a another is not considered "expansionist" by any claims. In around 1850's the Jewry Council offered to purchase a strip of land of what is modern day Israel to the Ottoman Empire the Sultanate rejected it. Looking back at it Perhaps the Ottomans should of sold the land to the Jews that way we wouldn't of had this conflict. Regardless you can not disagree with the fact that Modern day Israel was not under the Control of a Jewish state before the British decided to create one. I think that is what our Arab friend is trying to say.
UofT, I think the expression that what Jordan did was only expansionist waters down the implications and meanings of their actions. I don't have a problem using smussuw's term that they stole the land of the Palestinian Arabs. However the Islamic world views theft, it is still theft by all accounts. I am really tired of this double standard used by the Muslim world. It is hypocritcal.

I am not familar with the 1850 Jewry Council or their offer to purchase back their own eternal Jewish homeland from others who came to control it. It is an interesting idea you bring up, none the less.

I appreciate the compromise of language you attempt to bring to the discussion. But I really do not think that smussuw was merely indicating that the Land of Israel was not under the direct control of the Jewish people before 1948. I think his statement was much more inflamitory. Israel was not the one who stole land in 1948. Israel declared its independence in accordance with UN directives. That land also happened to be the Jewish eternal homeland that has always been sought after since the Jewish people's exile. Israel was attacked and defended itself. It continues to have to defend its existence to this very day. Yet the Islamic world has the audacity to declare Israel as the aggressor. How are they the aggressor? Because they insist on maintaining their existence on their own land? Becasue they are forced to defned themselves all the time? The people who state Israel is the aggressor might as well declare day to be night, and night to be day. That is how far from the truth they are. Jordan, on the other hand, stole the land appropriated by the international community for the Palestinian Arabs. There really can be no other description of Jordan's actions.

this thread losed him article!
its will close!

good decision zohar!
it got out of hand
i just wanted to see what you will do with this thread ;)

heheh dubai lover:)))))
u will great boss:))
tomorrow do u start u'r trip?
good luck!
have a nice time don't forget us!
we love u:)