Do you think a sprawling problem will eventually lead to the building of highrises? if so, would it be in a boom or slow?

It would be nice to see some skyscrapers in Athens :yes:

Dear George, I wouldn't say it's merely a matter of sprawl to be honest. Sure, Athens has seen its population rise to 4.5+ million citizens in the last years mainly die to illegal immigration from abroad and other factors but, if we look closely, we will see birth rates more or less equal to the ones in the EU, which means that the city will NOT increase its real population in the near future as it might have been had Athens been in a non-EU country.

The causes of sprawl ar mainly attributed to the fact that many people that manage to succeed professionally and / or financially, move to the suburbs and apart from the popular destinations (i.e. the coastal or northern suburbs), many choose to move to the new residential complexes built from scratch which are lowrise, high-quality and massively built housing units that in Greece we describe them with the term "maisonettes". Click here ----> http://www.lamdaolympiavillage.gr/index.htm to see one of the most famous of these developments.

The main reason that Athens may build tall would be for corporate image reasons, meaning that a developer may decide to build vertically in order to upgrade the image of a company or companies that will seek to use their premises as corporate status icons. However, the biggest problem are the building codes as described in the latest master plan of Athens which is already under scrutiny by the Ministry of Environment, Planning and Public Works. I don't believe that developers would not go vertical if they had the chance.

Well, I have to go for now, but I can tell you the issue seems to be open since there have been many criticisms lately about the current master plan, which BTW is into effect since 1983. We will see how it goes though. For the present time, large cale development is observed in entertainment and shopping centres. I believe skyscrapers are next and knowing my compatriots, it will only take one to be announced and an elementary skyline will be a reality fove years after...

Thanks for the Detailed Reply GM.

Do you think think that if Corporations were allowed to go tall in the near future, Athens will have lost its chance of making a skyline? I mean, the boom has been in the past 10 years. Has athens lost there chance?

It certainly did, but only temporarily... I believe that a new wave of corporate investments especially in services products will create the need for new office space. The problem is that both the state AND the developers will have to change mentality.

Some people already talked about the need to switch from armed or reinforced concrete to building iron frames in order to build tall. We did switch actually, that's not the point, I know of many beautiful buildings in the northern suburbs with iron frames. The point is that the master plan provisions have to change, followed by a change of the societal attitudes. I am optimistic though, people seem to be much more -positive now that say, 10 years ago...

So how long do you predict athens will see talls?
Decades or in a few years?

Most probably in a few years. Looks like the current administration is about to introduce reforms. Mr Souflias, minister of environment and Public works mentioned the will of the government to put into scrutiny the current master plan for Athens and Greece, as it dates back to 1983 and many of its parts need amendments...

Also, a number of independent voices of distinguished professionals and members of the Hellenic urban planning and civil engineering community made extensive references for the need to rationalize and update height limits and other relevant restrictions.

So, we will see. It may take some time for the first one to be built but after that, the whole hell is going to break loose. We must, therefore wait and be sure I will be the first to post the relevant info here and at emporis.com :)

Anyway I hope to see that regulation out in certain like Marousi, Syngrou, Kyffisou, Delta and such, but not everywhere. I wouldn't like to see an overcrowded by highrises Kypseli, Patissia or Galatsi to mention a few and obviously not the downtown at all.

But in the former areas mentioned of course specially in Marousi where I hope to see someday an Athens version of La Defense.

One more thing worth to mention; what about Thessaloniki, no one speaks about the construction of highrises in the 1 million city of northern Greece which also is a commercial center and hub of plenty of companies settled there.

Sorry for asking another question gm ;) but, does athens have the commercial demand?

Now that's an interesting question.

To begin with, Athens, like the rest of Greece and the EU, is suffering from a mild recession, especially after the end of the Olympic games. This reflects on the overall situation and mobility of the property markets.

In addition, real estate values in places of commercial interest, especially in Maroussi and kifissias Avenue, as well as the peripheral business quarters of Athens (i.e. Syggrou Avenue) have reached unreal heights during the last half of the 1990's and this resulted in a temporary stalling of the market development.

Also, especially in Kifissias Avenue, one should consider the availability of some 150,000 square metres that were freed for comercial use, from the two gigantic Olympic Media Centres, namely the IMC (International Media Centre) and the IBC (International Broadcasting Centre) which, albeit lowrise, are very poineering constructions and expand in large areas in the vicinity of the main Athens Olympic Complex in Maroussi-Kalogreza.

However, the furure is not bleak since Athens must make the decision whether it wants or not to become a major business hub. Although in theory, an estimated 200,000 square metres will be available overall for commercial use in total for 2005, still, the city is seriously lagging behind in terms of category A office space, and this is mainly die to the absurd height restrictions still in effect which prevent the developers to offer quality office space en masse. However, although the numbers say that Athens has sufficient space to cater for current office and commercial space needs, addition of high quality and organised office complexes where height will be a dominant element, adding to the prestige and corporate image of businesses, may be the cause of relocation of existing businesses in new premises fulfilling their notion of corporate status.

I strongly believe that (in fact none of you understands how much I believe that) by the end of this decade at least one new skyscraper in Athens will be topped up, probbably in the area of Maroussi and the Attica Road. No, I don't believe that we will see residential highrises in contrast to the first generation booming of Athens skyscrapers since, the application of the model of massive accomodation in apartment blocks especially in the centre of Athens during the years 1950-1970 left a bitter taste and people are moving to condominiums on the suburbs if they can afford to, but they definitely leave the centre and areas like Kypseli which are now preferred by foreign immigrants, students and other low-income categories.

Now, I know why we didn;t build skyscrapers for many years, but still...

I want you to look at the following picture which was taken by me on May, 2005 from a spot in Penteli mountain (where I took many smilar ones but this is the best in my view). Take a close look. It is the only picture that depicts all those buildings that are built hundreds of metres or even few kilometres apart in one shot. Take a close look and tell me: What could have been the case IF the absurd height limit restrictions were not in effect? If the overall image of a part of the city even as a trick of my lenses and my sick ability to discover views like this one (that's my passion anyways) if one of the most interesting parts of the city looked like this in 1978 wnen the last of the buildings depicted here was completed, what would be the situation now? ?

Athens Skyline in 1978... er... no, 2005

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/35730/429118/0/Athens+-+From+Pendeli+-+6+-May+05-small800x.jpg

Of course, the negativists were afraid that we may end up with something like this ----> http://www.emporis.com/en/il/im/?id=226527

But I simply (and especially for the ones that have been to Greece recently) invite you to think what would be wrong if the Attica road in Maroussi looked like this ---------> http://www.emporis.com/en/il/im/?id=211036

If it already looks like this:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/gm22633/29410/401686/0/Athens+Kifissias+Roundabout++-+2005+-+Medium.jpg

Just think...

Wow thanks for your great replys. I had alot of questions and you answered them all with detail! Thanks alot! :)

As an editor in emporis.com, and a devoted skyscrapers fan for 30 years now, I see it as my duty and pleasure to give you the best I can. This goes especially for the Hellenes living abroad that they may not have other reliable sources in reference to this particutar subject in question :)

Always devoted to the cause for a better and taller Athens -AND GREECE - I believe we will need to talk about the highrises outside Athens one day - few and insignificant but stlll there -surprise-surprise :):) .

I cannot imagine Athens going vertically. I somehow think its too sunny for that, although I know there are many Greek corporations to cause the going up thing. Although, I must admit Istanbul and Paris kind of change my mind, they seeemed to be cities that wouldn't go vertically, but they did so succesfully.

Istanbul has done it in style and the way in which is has gone vertical has made the city better overall.

Yep, and mind you, Paris building skyscrapers is almost a 50-year old story. However, Paris is rmarkable for the way they incorporated such buildings in their existing urban fabric.

As for Istanbul, there were already some highrises there since the 60's but the real boom took place from the late 1980's onwards. Remarkable case, with many similarities with Athens, as far as the construction settings are concerned. Istanbul's Levent looks like Maroussi in this aspect. Like I said, very interesting case and another city that managed to incorporate this type of buildings without ruining thir historic centre.

http://dunyaturk.com/tr29/Faruk_alilevent2.jpg

Synergy with the enviroment.

Now imagine a similar view from the Acropolis looking towards Marousi.