Scanned from this months Manchester Civic Society Forum!(just out)

An article by Richard Harvey(MCS Chairman)

LOOKING AT TALL BUILDINGS FROM ALL ANGLES

(The paragraph! Full artcile below :) )

'That was the subject of a meeting of architects and building consultants, all corporate members of Manchester Civic Society. With 3 aplications already approved and more than 20 more being prepare, :eek: is it time to have a policy as to where new tall builings should and should not get built?'

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v397/jrb041067/civic.jpg

http://www.manchestercivic.org.uk/forum/

What a source! You can't get much better than Richard Harvey! Chairman of the Manchester Civic Society, close to many of Manchesters architects and building consultants!

According to Richard there are more than 20 tall buildings being prepared for Manchester! If this is true and we have no reasons to disbelive him, this is amazing news!

What does he actually mean by 20 more being prepared? Approved, waiting for approval or still at the design stage?

Let the discussion begin! :)

But how do we know from that quote that these aren't towers we know about??
Such as ATS, Chapel Wharf, Canopus etc etc etc... For all we know they're could be no new towers to us in that list.. So I'm not getting my hopes up.

Although reading it again with comparisons being made to Dubai.. does this mean Manchester and its council will do all it can feasibly do to have the tallest outside of London, if not go one step further and have the tallest in the UK?? It seemed an odd comparison to make me feel... uhm

Ferge!

Even if you take away the towers we know about, that still leaves us with up to 10 tall buildings we don't know about!

Thats the exciting part! :)

i read that article about 2 months ago, plus, tall buildings could mean anything...

Yeah...And also what would you class as tall? and the guy in question ed class tall as?

skyscraper tall to me is 30/30+, to someone else who knows...

3 approved....?

1) Hardman 2) Crown Building 3) Eastgate

Yeah...And also what would you class as tall? and the guy in question ed class tall as?

skyscraper tall to me is 30/30+, to someone else who knows...

3 approved....?

1) Hardman 2) Crown Building 3) Eastgate#


Probably.

If those are the three classed as 'approved', then you'd have to say definition of tall building is a skyscraper in the case of this article.

Yeah that was interesting, cos is 1HS actually approved?

These are all the proposed/apporved buildings with 16fl +

Eastgate Tower - 188m - 60 floors
Quay Point Tower 1 - 50 floors
1 Hardman Square - 150m+ - 38 floors
Crown Building -131m - 44 floors
Quay Point Tower 2 - 35 floors
Quay Point Tower 3 - 35 floors
Chapel Wharf Tower 1 - 112m - 37 floors
Modus Tower - 32 floors
Harbour City Tower 1 - 94m - 29 floors
Harbour City Tower 2 - 94m - 29 floors
Oakglade Greengate Tower 1 - 30 floors
Southern Gateway Tower - 30 floors
Oakglade Greengate Tower 2 - 25 floors
Quay Point Tower 4 - 25 floors
The Beacon - 24 floors
Clippers Quay Tower - 23 floors
Middlewood Locks Tower - 23 floors
Harbour City Tower 3 - 76m - 22 floors
Harbour City Tower 4 - 76m - 22 floors
Ramada Tower - 22 floors
Sarah Tower - 22 floors
Mill 1- 21 floors
Mill 4 - 21 floors
ISIS Wharf Ancoats - 21 floors
Adelphi Street Tower 1 - 20 floors
Green Quarter Tower - 20 floors
Manchester House - 20+ floors
3 Piccadilly Place - 20 floors
Chester Road Tower - 20 floors
Whitworth Street Tower - 20 floors
Lee House - 69m - 17 floors
Pall Mall Tower - 19 floors
15-17 Windmill Street - 17 floors
Chapel Wharf Tower 2 - 60m - 18 floors
Oakglade Greengate Tower 3 - 17 floors
Adelphi Street Tower 2 - 16 floors
Dantzic Street Tower - 16 floors
Fortune House - 59m - 16 floors
River Quarter Phase 2 - 16 floors
Eastgate Tower 2 - 17 floors

you could say any one of them is tall...

But the article is about towers!

It features images of towers and contains the 3 approved towers we know about!
Its not about mid-rise offices or apartments!
No one is saying theres going to be 20+ Beethams! But the article gives an impression that Manchester could be heading for 20+ tall buildings!

Three approved ?

could they mean

1) Eastgate
2) Beetham
3) Crown / Albany

perhaps if they're talking about ones that haven't even started being built yet they could be referring to the tower on the ATS site

Whatever it is the fact that its talking about the three that have been approved gives you an idea of the context within which the article was written!

===
edit

Actually when you read the full article carefully it does indeed suggest they mean talls, as they discuss the problems .... this aint no midrise article chaps, today the glass is half full

These are all the proposed/apporved buildings with 16fl +

These are the ones we know about! ;)

What about the ones we don't know about?

" 20+ being prepared"

most of those are being prepared, my mistake, i shouldn't have put 'proposed' towers. Most of the towers in that list are being prepared. For example 'Quay Point Tower 1 - 50 floors' - we've only seen the renders for this, the proposal hasn't been put in.

Kids!

Minus the the 3 approved and the ones that will never see the light of day from the list! How many are you left with?

Another thing! How do we know any of the 20+ include the ones in Salford or the Quays?

What if they don't!

in my opinion it's nothing to get excited about, there are alot more than 20 'tall buildings' that we know of which are being prepared now, for all we know it could just mean these, so until we get some new renders etc we'll never know. We could ask questions all day 'what if' 'why' 'when' but we'll never know the answers (Unless you want to ask Richard Harvey). So there's no point.

As long as one of the has an Apple/Mac shop I will be very happy.

Firstly, I'm quite sure they only mean Manchester proper when they say ''20 more being prepared'' NOT Salford Quays, Greengate or Chapel Wharf.

Plus, they say ''3 already approved'' which has to mean Beetham, Albany and Eastgate, I'm guessing the rest will at least be comparable to Albany so I'd say a minimum of 120m for each of these towers? They are going to be split between Southern Gateway and Piccadilly IMO.

1 Hardman Square - 150m+ - 38 floors
Southern Gateway Tower - 30 floors
Ramada Tower - 22 floors
Sarah Tower - 22 floors
Manchester House - 20+ floors
3 Piccadilly Place - 20 floors
Chester Road Tower - 20 floors
Whitworth Street Tower - 20 floors


I reckon these are they only ones from the list in Manc that qualify as 'being prepared' and most are not comparable to Beetham/Albany/Eastgate, so IMO we don't know about the vast majority of this ''20+''

Firstly, I'm quite sure they only mean Manchester proper when they say ''20 more being prepared'' NOT Salford Quays, Greengate or Chapel Wharf.

Plus, they say ''3 already approved'' which has to mean Beetham, Albany and Eastgate, I'm guessing the rest will at least be comparable to Albany so I'd say a minimum of 120m for each of these towers? They are going to be split between Southern Gateway and Piccadilly IMO.

Very interesting article, and an interesting quote there caw; what make you so sure though?

I would have thought for many more tall buildings to be put forward and built in the city centre, the city will have to attract large companies (such as the bank of new york) to fill up high rise office buildings :uh:

I reckon these are they only ones from the list in Manc that qualify as 'being prepared' and most are not comparable to Beetham/Albany/Eastgate, so IMO we don't know about the vast majority of this ''20+''

My exact thoughts Caw!

This article is about towers comparable to to Beetham and Piccadilly Plaza!

It also quotes the three approvead applications we know about!(Eastgate, Crown and Beetham)

Do you think the Civic Society would have raised this issue in their latest edition of Forum if most or all of these 20+ proposals were midrises?

No! I don't think so!

Ps. I'm not saying most of these 20+ buildings will be towers comparable to Beetham, Eastage etc. But there certainly will be a few that are! :)

I think you're reading too much into this guys... you're mistakenly thinking that the Civic Society thinks like a skyscraper fan... they may not even have thought about what a 'tall building' is, they're a civic society, so to them tall could mean 15 stories. And when they talk about Manchester, they may mean the whole of Greater Manchester, they may just mean the city centre. I imagine that they're consultees on all large applications, but they probably won't get to comment on schemes much before they're submitted for planning. It's not like this is an architect or a consultant, who often talk about 'the pipeline'. The society are probably just referring to schemes already or about ot be submitted for planning.

The article is also slightly misguided as Manchester already has a UDP that will undoubtedly (assuming it was prepared right) have a policy on tall buildings. In fact I've seen Manchester's policy for locating tall buildings being discussed for several years now, so I was under the impression there'd been plenty of talk about it.

But, of course, I think it's obvious there are a good number of towers in the pipeline for Manchester... the director at Drivers Jonas (agents for Beetham Tower) said they were working on 10 towers earlier in the year, so the fact that there are more on the way isn't really news... is it?

I wouldnt be suprised to see 20+ skyscrapers being prepared for Manchester - Its a big city attracting huge investments. But I think the likelyhood is that they will be speard over probably a 5 year period and construction within a 10 year period.

As long as one of the has an Apple/Mac shop I will be very happy.

Apple are opening an Apple Store in the Trafford Center, which with Micro Anvika will mean there are two Mac outlets there, if you want one in the city center try GBM/Manchester Apple Center
GBM map (http://www.applecentremanchester.co.uk/images/GBM_Map_Col.pdf)

Hello fellow Mac user :)

I was thinking more of one like right in the center easy to get to but I will be going to The Trafford Center when it opens.

Think you will find a micro anvika at Selfridges

Think you will find a micro anvika at Selfridges
But its just not the same as the apple store. They have the same sort of thing in the dawson's music store. The dawsons music store in town is amazing anyone who hasnt been in there should. Last time I when in I was in there for hours.

Yeah, my mate Jay works there. Me and him used to work together in the music shop in the Trafford Centre before we got kicked out for John Lewis.

Albany and Eastgate should start before the years out (hopefully),,and in that time i think we'll hear about one or two more highrises,,,1HS , 3PP, and there is the whisper of a tall on the chester rd roundabout by Dandara,,,,exciting lets wait and see

They should give Beetham a sister or two.

When is an apple store opening at the TC??

I think you're reading too much into this guys... you're mistakenly thinking that the Civic Society thinks like a skyscraper fan... they may not even have thought about what a 'tall building' is, they're a civic society, so to them tall could mean 15 stories. And when they talk about Manchester, they may mean the whole of Greater Manchester, they may just mean the city centre. I imagine that they're consultees on all large applications, but they probably won't get to comment on schemes much before they're submitted for planning. It's not like this is an architect or a consultant, who often talk about 'the pipeline'. The society are probably just referring to schemes already or about ot be submitted for planning.

The article is also slightly misguided as Manchester already has a UDP that will undoubtedly (assuming it was prepared right) have a policy on tall buildings. In fact I've seen Manchester's policy for locating tall buildings being discussed for several years now, so I was under the impression there'd been plenty of talk about it.

But, of course, I think it's obvious there are a good number of towers in the pipeline for Manchester... the director at Drivers Jonas (agents for Beetham Tower) said they were working on 10 towers earlier in the year, so the fact that there are more on the way isn't really news... is it?

Yeah I was a bit horrified when they mentioned that there was no policy on tall buildings and an overall vision of the ideal locations in the city. So hopefully they are mis-informed!

When is an apple store opening at the TC??
I went on there site befour and it just says later in the year.

When is an apple store opening at the TC??

Hows it going Phil? When are you back in Perth mate?

Hmmn. I was reading about the Manchester Civic Society. Ian Simpson was up for an award, but they gave it to a canal society instead. So I'll wait and see what their report says about tall buildings with a little suspicion tucked up my sleeve. .

http://www.manchestercivic.org.uk/awards2004.html

Thanks for the link jrb:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v397/jrb041067/civic.jpg

No probs Farsight!

I sent an e-mail to Richard Harvey last night regarding the 'Looking at tall buildings from all angles article.'(more than 20 more being prepared)

He kindly replied!

John,

Thanks for your e-mail, which we should follow up on. I have circulated it
round our Executive Committee for their information, we are currently
writing up the views of the Society following our Tall Buildings Working
Lunch in April. We hope to present this at our AGM on June 29th (for
members only but it sounds like you should become a member). I think we
have something to say, but we need to strenghten our team who are putting
together our message (if that doesn't put you off joining!)

You may also wish to make contact with xxxxxxx xxxxx
(xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) a PhD student at Manchester University who is finishing his thesis on Tall Buildings in Manchester, with particular
reference to the Beetham Tower. Michael has information on buildings
currently planned, and is the source of our information.

I will let you have our findings, and you may be able to add them to the
web-site you mentioned.

I will contact the other person and try to get some more information. As soon as I receive the findings I will post them aswell! :)

There no flies on you jrb,,great bit of investigation work,lets hope this guys give you some juicy news :)

I wonder if 'Michael' has visited SSC.........

Caw!

Don't be so cynical!

Not everyone knows about SSC!

Hows it going Phil? When are you back in Perth mate?

Christmas I hope and I cant wait!

Neils golden words:

I went to the 'Seven Ages of Manchester Festival' in Exchange square on Friday. The event was organised by the civic society. They had stalls from Urbis, War Museum North, Science and Industry Museum and other stall for different ages of Manchester. Anyway i got talking to the chairman of the civic society, and the event organiser. I aked what they thought about tall building and they have no problem as long as they are in the right area, and of good design. Then i asked do they know of any in the future. The chairman said about 30 tall buildings are in the pipeline for Manchester, and the event organiser said 20+. They both said 3 have already gone through which are Beetham, Eastgate and no surprise Crown. Then i asked when you say tall what is tall. They both pointed to the C.I.S. building and said not one of them are smaller than that. He said there about the size of Eastgate.

All we need now is one of them to be an observation tower. "World's tallest freestanding structure" would be nice... :)

^yeh, I wonder if that crappy needle thing we saw a while back is included in this.

No chance, the needle is purely visionary phantom stuff, it could never be described as being 'prepared'.

I don't see the attraction with observation towers. May as well build a real building and put an observation deck on top.

Ditto.

With an observation tower you can have a tower of a size you could never even think of if it were a true building (look at the CN tower for an example). I think Manchester would be a great place for something of that scale. Think what you could see from the top. There's no way on all this earth that the city could sustain a real tower of this size right now though.

So if it is true ,that there are 20+ tall building's in the pipeline for Manchester, excluding the 3 that have already gone through planning, what are the other's ??

1HS , ATS site, rumoured Dandara one near Chester roundabout?
there the only one's in Manchester that we know something about,unless it includes the Salford one's?

Wasnt there an old one for around Castle Field afew years ago. Maybe they are going to bring that from the dead.

If it incudes SQ then you have three towers CIS height or over just in Quay Point...

Wasnt there an old one for around Castle Field afew years ago. Maybe they are going to bring that from the dead.
Its probably more likely that Vector Arena would be brought back.

Remember the article for Southern Gateway where Ian Simpson said he was doing a number of towers for the plan.

The Castlefield tower is nothing but a concept, it was never alive, forget about it.

Taken from todays Business Review in the MEN!

Somthing is going on in Manchester? All these snippets of information are pointing to a massive tower boom for the city!

This time it's not residential, but more importantly office! Which we've been saying and hoping for!
According property experts, office towers are the only solution to lack of office space in Manchester City Centre!

So now Office aswell as residential towers are needed!

Looks like these '20 more towers' be prepared could well and truly become reality?:)

Sorry about the size again!(arrgh!)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v397/jrb041067/up1.jpg

In the words of Will Smith...

Tic-tic-tic-tic boom!

That's up to 5 million sqft of new office space over the next few years!

That's roughly 450,000sqm. For comparison that is 20 Sunley Towers.

I think the 'which city will have the best skyline by 2012' thread can be closed now!

That's up to 5 million sqft of new office space over the next few years!

That's roughly 450,000sqm. For comparison that is 20 Sunley Towers.
An even better example... Each of the World Trade Center towers only contained around 3.8 million ft². :)

The only way is up. Indeed it is.

If this is true....and I don't doubt it is, the regeneration of Manchester will be on par with the likes of Shanghai and Dubai.

Exciting times.

What an exciting article that is,,cheers jrb :cheers:

Allied are on a winner,if they just say "fuck it" and build a big fuck off tower in spinningfield's NOW ,and start it as soon as possible,they are guarenteed to fill it by the time it's finished ,with CJC right on it's doorstep,law firms will be falling over themselves for space when that baby is completed and open for buisness.

Very interesting them saying that the southern and eastern fringes of the city centre will see most of these developments,i'll say thats around Piccadilly and the Chester Rd roundabout.
Anyway very exciting prospect, im off for a pull :laugh:

Is that a pic of the refurbed St James House on York st ,in the news snippet?

it's amazing though. I mean 10 years ago the place was falling apart. . decades of post-war decay. A bomb strikes in 96. . .and forces the city to think. . .which kicks starts a renaissance. Manchester's like a phoenix.

Imagine the place in 5-10 years.

it's amazing though. I mean 10 years ago the place was falling apart. . decades of post-war decay. A bomb strikes in 96. . .and forces the city to think. . .which kicks starts a renaissance. Manchester's like a phoenix.

Imagine the place in 5-10 years.
Does nobody spot the fact that it's a Labour city and a Labour Government? :) Long may Labour reign if this is what we get I say!

Does anyone know the floorspace of the CIS?

A few random figures; 5 million sqft is equal to:

5 Eastgates (With smaller buildings)
38 Portland Towers
13 CJCs
10 Beethams(with smaller buildings)

Does nobody spot the fact that it's a Labour city and a Labour Government? :) Long may Labour reign if this is what we get I say!


Yes, but most of the big cities are Labour. As for our regeneration. Most of it's private funded. . .I've not seen the goverment plow in billions. If anything they've let us down.

We've done it mostly by ourselves. By thankful that we've got a very forward thinking city and leaders. . .

I think it's been like a snowball effect. And there's not reason why it won't continue.

Yes, but most of the big cities are Labour. As for our regeneration. Most of it's private funded. . .I've not seen the goverment plow in billions. If anything they've let us down.
Yes, most cities are Labour. Most cities stagnated under the Tories. Look at Manchester under Thatcher or Major, then look at it now. If you want to believe there is no back room negotiation done by Governments, you go ahead and believe it. The biggest catalyst for the regeneration was the Commonwealth Games, building new facilities for the city in time for them. It's snowballed since then and Government policies have been a catalyst.

BTW, has nobody else noticed how these stories appear on here, then within a day or two MEN have an article about it? Methinks they keep an eye on this forum...

Or we could build 8 of these
http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/59HeronTower_pic1.jpg

10 of these
http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/5830StMarysAxe_pic16.jpg


Ok going a bit mad now.

Imagine 10 giant dildos on the Manchester skyline, visible in a long row from Canal Street...

Manchester University must be sitting on a goldmine to the south of the city centre and the City Council must be in a similar position to the east of the city centre. They both own vast amounts of land and buildings! All waiting to be re-developed!

Infact it wouldn't surprise me if the council were trying to pull all these developers, architects and towers together under one huge big bang tower plan!

The big bang is dead! Long live the big bang tower plan! :)

Ps. If there is a better council or council leader (Howard Bernstein) anywhere else in the country, I'd like to know about them! Thank god he turned Labour down and decided to stay!

"Sir Howard Bernstein, Mayor of Manchester" has quite a nice ring to it... our own Ken Livingstone anyone?

Yes, most cities are Labour. Most cities stagnated under the Tories. Look at Manchester under Thatcher or Major, then look at it now. If you want to believe there is no back room negotiation done by Governments, you go ahead and believe it. The biggest catalyst for the regeneration was the Commonwealth Games, building new facilities for the city in time for them. It's snowballed since then and Government policies have been a catalyst.


Labour being in power's merely a coincident. We're just 'lucky' that were struck by a bomb, and had forward thinking leaders. I recall them saying back in 96, that we'll use this as an opportunity to rebuild Manchester.

Like I said, most cities are Labour. . .places like Liverpool have been dire need of regeneration for decades(much like Manchester pre 96.........).

The Commonwealth games helped. . .yes but the work started long before that, when you were still in a pram.

38 Portland towers, now there is a frightening prospect.

Ps. If there is a better council or council leader (Howard Bernstein) anywhere else in the country, I'd like to know about them! Thank god he turned Labour down and decided to stay!


He's a good chap, from what I've heard. I know where he lives aswell. . .

I'll give him your regards!

Labour being in power's merely a coincident. We're just 'lucky' that were struck by a bomb, and had forward thinking leaders. I recall them saying back in 96, that we'll use this as an opportunity to rebuild Manchester.

Like I said, most cities are Labour. . .places like Liverpool have been dire need of regeneration for decades(much like Manchester pre 96.........).
Yes. That's because they were Labour cities stuck with a Tory Government. Tory policies favour Tory voters. Labour policies favour Labour voters. It's quite simple. The fact we now have a Labour Government favours us and other Labour cities. That's why you see so much regeneration in the cities! Have you not noticed how all the farmers seem to hate the Labour Government? Why? Because cash that the Tories were pumping into the country (Tory heartland) is now going into the cities (Labour heartland).

The Commonwealth games helped. . .yes but the work started long before that, when you were still in a pram.
The work started long before that, I'm well aware of it. You have to remember, though, that Manchester's bid was being made years before that. They were also aware that a bid was to be put in long before that! Whilst there was some regeneration work going on pre-bomb, it's nothing compared to post-bomb. The bomb roughly coincided with a change in Government. You may say "oh, it's the bomb that started the ball rolling" and this may be true, but do you honestly think the ball would have continued to roll under a Tory-led economy???

I have no love for the Tories, Mr Bird. . .nor have I ever voted for them.

I simply think you're giving Labour far too much credit, and not enough to our leaders.

As for commonwealth games, well, I doubt the bid was prepared as far long ago as you think. . . mainly due to the fact we bidded for the Olympic games in 2000! I always felt the commonwealth games itself was like. . .'well it's better than nothing'. Thankfully, it's been great for the city. And was the catayst for a major clean up around Manchester. . .

Hopefully one day the city will be high profile enough for the Olympics. Who knows eh?

Put it this way!

With up to 25 towers in the city centre, 10, five and four star hotels, a new BBC media centre, superb stadiums and arenas available, upgradable or planned, a mjor airport, tourist attractions and superb shopping, etc, etc
why could'nt Manchester run for Olympics again in 10 or 15 years time?

Know where I'm going? :)

I have no love for the Tories, Mr Bird. . .nor have I ever voted for them.

I simply think you're giving Labour far too much credit, and not enough to our leaders.
I know it's entirely to do with the council leaders, but they have been freed up by some excellent Government policy, especially economic. The city didn't stagnate because of inept leaders, it stagnated because of inept Government.

As for commonwealth games, well, I doubt the bid was prepared as far long ago as you think. . . mainly due to the fact we bidded for the Olympic games in 2000! I always felt the commonwealth games itself was like. . .'well it's better than nothing'. Thankfully, it's been great for the city. And was the catayst for a major clean up around Manchester. . .

Hopefully one day the city will be high profile enough for the Olympics. Who knows eh?
The IOC voted on the 2000 Games in 1993. If I remember rightly the Commonwealth voting was completed in 1996, around the time of the bomb. We'll host the Olympics before long. We all need to start emailing the British Olympic Association (http://www.olympics.org.uk/contact/contact.asp) suggesting they choose Manchester should London lose. They do read the messages. I know, I've messaged them about stuff before. :)

My mistake. I can actually recall, our first failed bid(96 games). I was on a bus to college. . . and this senile ol'fella got the whole bus believing that we'd won the bid.

What a fool.

I rather liked the last sentance in the comprop article today - the spoked up phrase about matching the scale and ambition of Hong Kong and Shanghai; there's ambition...and there's hard drugs :)

Did anyone else read that article and think - yeah, and?



The fact is, that Manchester is going to have a miserable year in terms of large office lettings - certainly in the city centre simply because there is so little quality space available. Until developers start gambling all this talk of large office towers will remain as it is at present - pie-in-the-sky.

Developers have not, until recently, been building speculatively. Allied London only build speculative space at Spinningfields once they have secured a substantial prelet in excess of 50% of available floorspace in any given building.

We need high quality, large new spec office buildings in excess of 20,000 sq m in quality locations if we are going to continue to capture largescale inward investment opportunities like last year's letting to the Bank of New York and we need them tomorrow.

Although there is a reasonable amount of spec development going on, I'm worried that the total amount in any given building is too small at a maximum of 11,000 sq m at present.

Build it and they will come.

Two 200m office towers will be submitted for Piccadilly Basin soon. 50,000sqm each. That's my prediction.

Exactly Sleepy,that's why Allied London should just go for it,why wait for a 50% prelet , a 40 storey office tower will take at least 2 years to build,plus going through planning,say 3 years tops,before any company can move in,
Im very confident that in that time they will find enough tenants to fill it.

Exactly Sleepy,that's why Allied London should just go for it,why wait for a 50% prelet , a 40 storey office tower will take at least 2 years to build,plus going through planning,say 3 years tops,before any company can move in,
Im very confident that in that time they will find enough tenants to fill it.

True. And lets face it, if Allied had not been so conservative the chances are, they would have captured the prestige BoNY letting rather than allowing it to go to their rivals accross the other side of the city. Added to that we could be talking about a 13,000+ sq m letting rather than the 9,000 sq m that came about due to available space.

How long are the BofNY contracted to 1 Piccadilly Gardens?i do remember reading that if its a successful move,they will want more space.
Anyway its an ideal situation at the moment for a developer to just bite the bullet and build it

Did anyone read the article next to the one that JRB posted?

With an observation tower you can have a tower of a size you could never even think of if it were a true building (look at the CN tower for an example). I think Manchester would be a great place for something of that scale. Think what you could see from the top. There's no way on all this earth that the city could sustain a real tower of this size right now though.

The CN Tower is basically a tv transmitter mast with an observation deck (http://ieee.ca/millennium/cntower/cntower_overview.html).

We could always put a restaurant at the top of Winter Hill :)

Put it this way!

With up to 25 towers in the city centre, 10, five and four star hotels, a new BBC media centre, superb stadiums and arenas available, upgradable or planned, a mjor airport, tourist attractions and superb shopping, etc, etc
why could'nt Manchester run for Olympics again in 10 or 15 years time?

Know where I'm going? :)
Including the planned city of Salford Stadium when its built for Salford City Reds.

Reply from Micheal regarding the 20+ towers being prepared!

He kindly agreed to let me post his reply! Which I wouldn't have done otherwise!



Dear John



Many thanks for your email; sorry for the delay in responding but I’ve been away quite a lot recently. Well, the figure of 20 buildings has been thrown around in various circles for a few months now. My understanding is that the Council is in confidential talks with a number of developers over up to 20 proposed towers. As far as I am aware these are not in the public realm yet; I myself don’t know what the specifics are and I’ve been dealing with the Council on a number of proposals over the past few months.



Now that I have your details, if I come across any other proposals I’ll let you know. Thanks for the information on Spinningfields and on joining the forum. I’ll have a good look this afternoon.



With best wishes



Michael

jrb. who is Michael?

Hi Neil!

How's things?

Micheal past the '20+ towers being prepared' information on to the Civic Society, which they used in an article in the latest edition of forum!

I got in touch with Micheal via the chairman of the Civic Society!

So the towers are not known to the public yet?...which means we do not no about them, which means the 3 approved we dont know about either? is that what he is saying?

:O

If true i love you JRB...

I remember you telling me about him now at the spinningfields open day. I am fine thanks for asking, hope your ok, and thanks for the update.

Sounds great, nice to have someone in the know ,giving us the gossip :)

We could always put a restaurant at the top of Winter Hill :)

Pies and pasties a speciality!

Taken from the Metro News!

Manchester not Manhattan
(that was the headline)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v397/jrb041067/vrtyuj.jpg
(sorry the article is so small. Photobucket 250 KB limits!)

Interesting quotes!

1. The Societys development committee is preparing a report on tall buildings.
2. And a revised application for the 201m-tall Greengate building in Salford is expected.
3. "I would'nt say the tall buildings destined for Manchester are unique."(David Thomas, Civic Society)
4. "The Beetham Tower for example, doesn't have a particularly elegant detail on the outside."(David Thomas, Civic Society)
5. With possibly 23 tall buildings in the pipeline.(Civic Society)
6. "There have been a number of proposals for tall buildings in the city centre although views on what would constitute a tall building will vary."(MCC)
7. There have only been 3 applications for very tall buildings in the city centre!(MCC):cry:
8. "Any proposal should be critically-asessed against the joint guidance for tall buildings produced by CABE and English Heritage"
9. Planning applications cannot yet be viewed on the internet but this facility will be available shortly."(MCC)
10. "We can only express surprise about the comments regarding the quality of the Hilton Tower scheme as both CABE and English Heritage were both highly supportive and commented on its very high quality. Not one adverse comment was received ata planning application."

(Time to retire to my SSC bunker!) :runaway:

"Manchester not Manhattan". Yeah, It's realy like Manhattan :lol:

2. And a revised application for the 201m-tall Greengate building in Salford is expected.


I was wondering where this came from, it's totally wrong.

"Manchester not Manhattan". Yeah, It's realy like Manhattan :lol:

You Cockney plank! Its just a newspaper headline! :baeh3:

I was wondering where this came from, it's totally wrong.

Indeed Caw!

But some of the other stuff is correct!

You Cockney plank! Its just a newspaper headline! :baeh3:

lol, I was taking the piss out of the headline! :cheers:

lol, I was taking the piss out of the headline! :cheers:

Thats not allowed! :)

"Manchester not Manhattan". Yeah, It's realy like Manhattan :lol:Funnily though, London and Manchester were used as New York doubles as production in New York is too costly and the city lacks the production power of these two cities.




Interesting news regarding the towers - would like to see more shapes, clustering and variety in height. 150m+ towers would be good - could become one of the skyscraper cities of Europe at this rate!

Story is full of crap, only bit worth reading is the bit that backs up 23 buildings.

Someones just seen the Liverpool result :lol:

I think after the last two weeks, we can safely say we're(manchester) heading in the right direction for 20 towers! :)

Ok, they may not all be Beetham, Crown, Eastgate size, but most of the ones we've found out about are between 15-20 storeys high, phrehaps even higher!

We still have some monsters to be announced and lots of hush, hush stuff aswell! :)

I know this is the festive season! But this is getting silly! :)

1. Beetham.
2. GN.
3. Eastgate.
4. Crown.
5. No1.
6. Chapel Warf.
7. Chestergate.
8. Sarah tower.
9. ISIS tower.
10. Greengate.(2 towers)
11. Central Spine towers.(landmark+signature towers)
12. Middlewood Locks.(3 towers)

And the rest?

A possible 15 towers that we know about, which should get built!

So thats 3 definite starts for the early next year. Sarah tower,(already started) Crown will definitly begin early next year, and BITN has now confirmed Chaperl Warf will start in January. :)

Yes but Sarah tower isn't THAT tall and Chapel Wharf has been shortened to an unknown (shorter) height. And Crown won't be up for ages as there's tons of demolition to do...

Theres always one (pessimist) isn't there! I think we should be very grateful for what we're getting and hope that the bigger projects get started soon aswell.

Another tower! A very interesting proposal!

10 storeys at the Berry Street end(directly behind the BT building), rising to 13-16 storeys in the 'middle' section of the building, culminating at 19 storeys at Baring street.

Further info.

http://www.manchester.gov.uk/planning/pdf/committee/mainitem24nov05.pdf

mmmmm... I wonder what it looks like??

Either terracotta or red brick cladding. Its a student accomodation block.

Either terracotta or red brick cladding. Its a student accomodation block.

Key workers though!

They won't buy in to crap!

Taken form the Sunley / City Tower reclad thread.

Yes - i have lots of 'heads' just one of them Civic Society. I have to be careful what i say about what i do and dont know though so if i'm a bit guarded forgive me.
I think 20 is a bit on the optimistic side. Ive know of 7 post 40-storey buildings at design stage and there will be more than 10 by the end of the decade if they all get built. You lot seem as just as well informed as i am though.

7 post 40-storey buildings at design stage.

Beetham, Eastgate, Crown, Chapel Warf, No1 Hardman, Crowngate,(Dandara) Greengate(BSC) Can I ask if that is the 7?

there will be more than 10 by the end of the decade if they all get built.

Would that be about 2010-2015?

Sorry for fishing. :)
........................................................................................................

No - i wasnt including the three that already have approval. I know of 3 more than you mention but it wouldnt be fair for me to say because i dont know if they are the public realm yet. I'm not being enigmatic - i just dont know what i am allowed to say (especially when ive already revealed who i am re. my photo) .
No to your second question aswell. With the 3 all ready approved there should be 10 by 2010 either finished or under construction.

With the 3 all ready approved there should be 10 by 2010 either finished or under construction.

Many thanks Mr Longford.

I'll leave it at that. :)

Let the good times roll :cheers:

Just to point out that even though 2010 sounds a long time away, it is now less than 4 years, and given the time scales involved in these projects we're going to be seeing an ever changing skyline for the next few years.

Mr Longford.

The next issue of Forum will be leading with a feature on the tall building policy of the city.

Have you seen the article yet?

When is the next issue of Forum out?

Many thanks.

Dont hold your breath! I'm taking a sabbatical from the Forum at the moment with the new baby coming but the next one should be in a month or two. I'm afraid that the article will just reinforce what most of you think about the civic society and the inherent conservatism. I may be wrong - i didnt write it thats for sure so i dont know what the content will be but i'm guessing you arent going to like it.
The civic society is a bit of a sore point with me at the moment so i wont say any more.

Dont hold your breath! I'm taking a sabbatical from the Forum at the moment with the new baby coming but the next one should be in a month or two. I'm afraid that the article will just reinforce what most of you think about the civic society and the inherent conservatism. I may be wrong - i didnt write it thats for sure so i dont know what the content will be but i'm guessing you arent going to like it.
The civic society is a bit of a sore point with me at the moment so i wont say any more.

I know there not anti tall, they just have a few concerns about siting/location, which is a valid point is it not?

I dont claim to be an expert but the trouble is that most of the civic society dont really come from an architecture/ planning background so their concerns tend to be (and how can i say this without sounding patronising?) a little parochial. There are some clued up people but you dont often hear their voices its usually the 'Concerned From Prestwich" who you hear from.

"Concerned from Prestwich",,,,,thought so,are'nt they in the borough of Bury ?

They should be told to get stuffed, until Prestwich becomes a Manchester suburb again ,,,your either with us or fuck off i say :)

I dont claim to be an expert but the trouble is that most of the civic society dont really come from an architecture/ planning background so their concerns tend to be (and how can i say this without sounding patronising?) a little parochial. There are some clued up people but you dont often hear their voices its usually the 'Concerned From Prestwich" who you hear from.

Overall I think the MCS do a decent job. Yes they are a bit Conservative in their views, but that's probably due to their average age. :)

Prime example. Free Trade Hall Radisson Edwardian Hotel(any pics flying about?) and Piccadilly Place. Both had very poor initial designs. Thankfully the MCS intervened on each occasion.

"Concerned from Prestwich",,,,,thought so,are'nt they in the borough of Bury ?

They should be told to get stuffed, until Prestwich becomes a Manchester suburb again ,,,your either with us or fuck off i say :)

sounds a bit like something George Bush would say, the sentiment was right though :)

Time to resurrect this thread form the dead.

BTW, yet another tower is being proposed for Piccadilly/London road.

It's all coming true you know.

Give me 10 and I'll spill the beans. Second hand of course :)

Mint, do it quick please because I have to go out soon.

JRB means ten hours! :lol:

The site. Plenty enough for a decent sized tower.

Taken from Property Week.

Towergate has also been active. Last month it bought a site next to the Malmaison hotel, 12-14 Piccadilly, from Barclays for more than £2.5m. It plans to refurbish the 11,500 sq ft (1,070 sq m) grade II-listed office building. It is understood it paid up to £1m more than the underbidder because it hopes to develop a tower on the site, which is close to Piccadilly station.

This is one of the council's designated tall building zones, close to the Inacity and Albany Crown tower sites. Sanderson Weatherall acted for Barclays.

Mussarat founded Classic Homes in 1989. It has a commercial and residential portfolio valued at more than £350m. It is understood that he will shortly seek to consolidate his companies under one name.

I'll put the kettle on, grab some nachos.. hope it's VERY VERY BIG jerb.

JRB means ten hours! :lol:

The white rabbit is back.

Taken from Property Week.

Towergate has also been active. Last month it bought a site next to the Malmaison hotel, 12-14 Piccadilly, from Barclays for more than £2.5m. It plans to refurbish the 11,500 sq ft (1,070 sq m) grade II-listed office building. It is understood it paid up to £1m more than the underbidder because it hopes to develop a tower on the site, which is close to Piccadilly station.

This is one of the council's designated tall building zones, close to the Inacity and Albany Crown tower sites. Sanderson Weatherall acted for Barclays.

Mussarat founded Classic Homes in 1989. It has a commercial and residential portfolio valued at more than £350m. It is understood that he will shortly seek to consolidate his companies under one name.

A tower in that context and that size of site could mean 12 storeys. I would be surprised if anything substantial will be built there. Its not a logical place to put a skyscraper in between two smallscale buildings such as the Malmaison and Barclays Bank.

If this is where im thinking of , it's a very small site indeed , its the carpark next to the Waldorf pub.

I mentioned this site a couple of months ago , when i saw workmen taking down the advertising board's that were on the site ,will be very interesting to see what comes of this

Cheers jerb :cheers:

A tower in that context and that size of site could mean 12 storeys.

Don't forget the piece of land adjacent to Barclays bank. It's not going to be a monster, but Sarah Tower is being built on a smaller piece of land, and how tall is that? I predict 20-30 stories.

You say "being built" but we have to use that term loosely when talking about Sarah Tower :D

You say "being built" but we have to use that term loosely when talking about Sarah Tower :D

Correction Roly. Being built invisibly. The UK's first invisible tower. :)

lol we'll need special opticals to see it, it's very posh

The floorplates are actually upto the 14th floor, its motoring along now!!

I;ve been out all night and had about 8 pints someone please explain what is going on. I dont think i should type anymore.....

Stupid question, but I'll ask anyway.

Would a tower similar in size to Fresh fit on the Barclays Bank/adjacent empty land site.

http://i3.tinypic.com/xpr8tu.jpg

Dont reckon - that site is tiny!

Dont reckon - that site is tiny!
well beetham west in liverpool is pretty much postage stamp size site

Stupid question, but I'll ask anyway.

Would a tower similar in size to Fresh fit on the Barclays Bank/adjacent empty land site.


I don't know where you mean. Barclays Bank on Mosley St?

Id be amazed if it could queeze in. That site on Piccadilly is only good for pissin on after a few pints of cask Boddies in the Waldorf. ipso facto.

In fact, ill bet a cyber £20.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/mezmail/90_1_b.jpg

I don't know where you mean. Barclays Bank on Mosley St?
Piccadilly

Next to the Malmaison - blink and you would miss it.
And yes Beetham west is on a tiny site i agree but its an island site is it not?

Oh that gap. I hadn't read the thread properly. If Towergate say they want a tower on that site, then that's what they shall have. No problem.

I really don't think I would like to see anything substantial on that site. A tall building would look ridiculous sandwhiched between the old Barclays Bank and Malmaison. What's the Heritage Nazi viewpoint, Longford?

You may be asking the wrong heritage nazi because i think a decent substantial tower (nothing mad - about 10-ish storeys) could work here. There are some pretty big buildings around there already - except, ironically, the two bounding the site - so the area can take it.
Other heritage nazis may not agree because Barclays bank is a Heathcote building i think and people get a bit precious about his stuff.
Get Hodder (or some such firm) to do it and it could work.
Saying all that a tall building would look slightly ridiculous (there is a two storey pub on the back of the site aswell!) but not wholly inappropiate IMO.

10 storeys? That's not a bleedin' tower. Jeez Longford, that's not even a tall building.

10 storeys? That's not a bleedin' tower. Jeez Longford, that's not even a tall building.
Try putting up a 10 storey building on Sandbanks and see how 'tall' your neigbours and planners think it is! :)

Its only an incy wincy site so thats all it could take i'm thinking!

Its only an incy wincy site so thats all it could take i'm thinking!

Little sites can take practically anything. They could build Beetham-on-a-Stick, if someone liked it and approved it.

I know what you mean though, a building of 10 stories is very feasible here. The Malmaison is the best London Rd has to offer so far, Barclays Bank is unnoticeable to most people, and the car park fits in like a sore thumb....

The site. Plenty enough for a decent sized tower.

Taken from Property Week.

Towergate has also been active. Last month it bought a site next to the Malmaison hotel, 12-14 Piccadilly, from Barclays for more than £2.5m. It plans to refurbish the 11,500 sq ft (1,070 sq m) grade II-listed office building. It is understood it paid up to £1m more than the underbidder because it hopes to develop a tower on the site, which is close to Piccadilly station.

This is one of the council's designated tall building zones, close to the Inacity and Albany Crown tower sites. Sanderson Weatherall acted for Barclays.

Mussarat founded Classic Homes in 1989. It has a commercial and residential portfolio valued at more than £350m. It is understood that he will shortly seek to consolidate his companies under one name.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v397/jrb041067/Picture215y.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v397/jrb041067/Picture217y.jpg

I was looking at it today, tiny site but hopefully we'll see something of about 14 stories that really improves this approach into the very heart of the city.

i hope its something quality

Could have something similair to the Light House? (In terms of height and shape) perhaps, seeing as the Graded building will be intergrated into it...

does anyone know what was on this site in the past-the side of that old building (bank?) has the "shadow" of something else, but what? And what happened to it?

This apparently!
http://www.images.manchester.gov.uk/web/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=10004

This apparently!
http://www.images.manchester.gov.uk/web/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=10004

I wonder whose idea it was to build the blood bank on Gore Street?! :)

Whoops. Wrong thread.