Scaz - I'd forgotten all about the plans to relocate the civic buildings between Little Park Street and Much Park Street (called Mescher Way or something stupid like that). I didn't realise the Council had expressed an interest in moving some of its premises to Friargate.

This made me think - if the civic buildings did move, what should be done to the area they currently occupy?

I think this could be a good area to expand the small green that exists on Little Park Street (and thus create quite a large central park). It is in a very central location and would offer excellent views of the spires, so it could work well.

I for one would love to see the Council House extension (Civic Centre 4???) demolished. It is a horrible building architecurally and also very depressing underneath. The walkway constantly stinks of piss and I get sick of walking through it on my way home from work.

I would also like to see Little Park Street built up again as a proper street. It is very good on the side with Varisty, old Midland Bank building (Lloyds No 1), Whitefriars Housing, RBS etc but the other side is pretty much dead. An active front would really work and, owing to the scale of the buildings on the other side of the road, mid rise buildings of 4-8 storeys would fit in nicely.

Just a thought!

That Meschede Way thing is horrible - the main character in my new story walks through it at one point and thinks he's in a communist country. Isn't there a car park underneath it all? I vaguely remember walking through an underground car park that brought me out somewhere near there. There's a pointless square with a pond and statue in it nearby as well that looks semi-derelict.

It would indeed by nice to see Little Park Street built up again.

While they're at it they could also remove that horrendous white bunker that for some inexplicable reason was put at a bizarre angle to the road and has that stupid ramp taking up a vast amount of space.

That horrendous bridge between the old council house and new council house is awful as well.

The council want to sell off their land to developers to raise money, hence why they were looking at moving and presumably renting premises. So I imagine it'd end up as offices or residential. A few years back the council were criticised in a government report for making the best use of their assets. I think Coventry Council own quite a bit of land, mainly because they bought it all up during the post-war years for the rebuilding.

I wonder if Friargate might include some sort of leisure venue?

If the council do move then that's one huge aspect of Donald Gibson's plan removed - that area was "zoned" as a civic quarter in his original ideas, with other zones for residential, shopping and leisure.

PrimeLines wasn't developed as part of the SPRINT blueprint, the existing infrastructure would have to be changed significantly again to allow for the segregation required.

I took part in the SPRINT consultation (as a '''consultant''' type person) and it was a good scheme, apart from the fact that the lead consultant (another competing company i cannot mention) had f***ed up the cost benefit analysis, and this is why the scheme didn't go in to DfT as lots of problems then ensued in terms of liability issues and amendments to the CBA. I haven't spoken to anyone since leaving the Coventry office so dont know where this scheme will now be going but NUCKLE does not achieve the same benefits or reach the same populations, therefore there is still scope for SPRINT to proceed.

To add something to the mix; Friargate really does need a major relocation to proceed, and there was talk of the Civic Centre site being sold off for redevelopment on the back of CCC moving to Friargate. If CCC do relocate to Friargate this would logically kick-start the development of the area which is then more likely to encourage further relocations / set-ups from companies outside of Coventry.

Problems at Swanswell are level differences and the geology of the area - i think the ground is wet and of an awkward material or something which makes it a lot more expensive to work with????? Not clear on that though.

Didn't Friargate try to get Network Rail? [Milton Keynes got it].

I read a report from 2009 that seems to indicate that Sprint is still on the boil, but there's been nothing in the local press.

Swanswell was marshland that was drained, so I guess that might be the issue, and like you say, the level of the ground changes.

Scaz - I'd forgotten all about the plans to relocate the civic buildings between Little Park Street and Much Park Street (called Mescher Way or something stupid like that). I didn't realise the Council had expressed an interest in moving some of its premises to Friargate.

This made me think - if the civic buildings did move, what should be done to the area they currently occupy?

I think this could be a good area to expand the small green that exists on Little Park Street (and thus create quite a large central park). It is in a very central location and would offer excellent views of the spires, so it could work well.

I for one would love to see the Council House extension (Civic Centre 4???) demolished. It is a horrible building architecurally and also very depressing underneath. The walkway constantly stinks of piss and I get sick of walking through it on my way home from work.

I would also like to see Little Park Street built up again as a proper street. It is very good on the side with Varisty, old Midland Bank building (Lloyds No 1), Whitefriars Housing, RBS etc but the other side is pretty much dead. An active front would really work and, owing to the scale of the buildings on the other side of the road, mid rise buildings of 4-8 storeys would fit in nicely.

Just a thought!

I'd be surprised if they did move to Friargate, as logistically it'd make their jobs more difficult having to travel from the station area to the Council House. It's also not an area that's currently in dramatic need of an overhaul, so it could be seen as wasting a lot of money on something that isn't strictly needed, but if it helped bring 10-15k jobs then it'd be argued to be a worthwhile loss.

The green area on the corner is fine and could be extended, but I don't think the council would want to open an area so close to the council house and courts too much as it'd give people a decent place to gather and protest. It's a big area to turn solely into a park as well so they'd probably lose a fair bit of money from the loss of economic use.

Building Little Park St up to match the other side is a good plan though, although would access to the court buildings be hampered by this?

Isn't CC4 the big white building? I agree that I'd love to see the extension and the little connecting bridge demolished though - they really look out of place adjoined to the council house and bring a really gloomy sense to the area.

I reckon it'd end up being used for housing/apartments, probably swallowed up by the university and used for student housing.

The other thing I think they'd be tempted to do with it is offer it to the owners of Cathedral Lanes as an alternative site to allow the demolition of the current structure and opening that area up into a park instead.. With the uni, cathedral, courts, ST and council house all nearby it's got potential to get quite busy even if it's not quite as prime a location as straight opposite Broadgate.

The number banded about at the time of cancelation was £25m. It also would have caused massive disruption and the Tory council had a majority of one and didn't want to upset the car lobby.

I always felt the figures bandied about were a bit low - £8m for the boulevard, £18m for a tunnel and £1.5m to remove the junction I think. I expected there to be some problems with water levels given the area's history (Pool Meadow) but the bus station has coped with masses of very heavy traffic over the years. No idea about the geology of the area though.

I disagree that it'd cause major disruption though - that part of the ringroad is nowhere near as busy as the rest and traffic can be easily redirected the other way round the ring road. Yes, it'd put extra traffic on the busier parts and slightly increase journey times but nothing that'd lead to complete chaos.

Have a look at the planning portal - there's supporting comment already, and also some new documents detailing the masterplan in much more detail.

First Phase is going to be the bridge over the ringroad, followed by the station square...

This really does look incredible!

I'd be surprised if they did move to Friargate, as logistically it'd make their jobs more difficult having to travel from the station area to the Council House. It's also not an area that's currently in dramatic need of an overhaul, so it could be seen as wasting a lot of money on something that isn't strictly needed, but if it helped bring 10-15k jobs then it'd be argued to be a worthwhile loss.

The green area on the corner is fine and could be extended, but I don't think the council would want to open an area so close to the council house and courts too much as it'd give people a decent place to gather and protest. It's a big area to turn solely into a park as well so they'd probably lose a fair bit of money from the loss of economic use.

Building Little Park St up to match the other side is a good plan though, although would access to the court buildings be hampered by this?

Isn't CC4 the big white building? I agree that I'd love to see the extension and the little connecting bridge demolished though - they really look out of place adjoined to the council house and bring a really gloomy sense to the area.

I reckon it'd end up being used for housing/apartments, probably swallowed up by the university and used for student housing.

The other thing I think they'd be tempted to do with it is offer it to the owners of Cathedral Lanes as an alternative site to allow the demolition of the current structure and opening that area up into a park instead.. With the uni, cathedral, courts, ST and council house all nearby it's got potential to get quite busy even if it's not quite as prime a location as straight opposite Broadgate.

A few points in response:

If the side of Little Park Street where all the court buildings are was built up then access to the courts would not be impeded. Currently the Combined Crown and County Court (the white building or "bunker" as Rotty called it!) could still be accessed via the ramp on St John's Street (by Severn Trent) and of course the unnecessarily large ramp running down Much Park Street towards Jordan Well and facing the Herbert Art Gallery. Plus, I'm sure that any new buildings along Little Park Street could incorporate a 'gap' site to enable greater permeability towards the court complex.

I wonder how often the bridge linking the Council House to the piss stained red block extension gets used? Is it really necessary? Would it kill the Council workers to cross the road and get some fresh air in the process?! I work in a group of offices which are not directly connected and we regularly walk outside to get from one to the next. The existing Council House bridge helps to spoil an otherwise nice view from Gosford Street/Jordan Well towards Broadgate and the Cathedral Quarter and interferes with permeability and connectivity.

I like the idea of the area currently occupied by the Civic Buildings being used for retail (a place for the tenants of Cathedral Lanes to relocate as you suggest). This is particularly so given that the University is creeping towards the city centre more and more, and dominating the east side in the process (something which must be restricted, IMHO).

Have a look at the planning portal - there's supporting comment already, and also some new documents detailing the masterplan in much more detail.

First Phase is going to be the bridge over the ringroad, followed by the station square...

This really does look incredible!

I drove along Warwick Road today (from the Quadrant end towards the ring road) and whilst sat in traffic I looked across at the existing train station area. It's amazing to think that in future - rather than looking across slip roads, subways and sunken parks, then across more slip roads, junctions and general concrete/tarmac shite-ness - there will be an almost straight road (re-establishing Warwick Road in its own right) lined with green park either side. I can't wait to see it.

I always felt the figures bandied about were a bit low - £8m for the boulevard, £18m for a tunnel and £1.5m to remove the junction I think. I expected there to be some problems with water levels given the area's history (Pool Meadow) but the bus station has coped with masses of very heavy traffic over the years. No idea about the geology of the area though.

I disagree that it'd cause major disruption though - that part of the ringroad is nowhere near as busy as the rest and traffic can be easily redirected the other way round the ring road. Yes, it'd put extra traffic on the busier parts and slightly increase journey times but nothing that'd lead to complete chaos.

Yes, the point about traffic chaos was a cop-out. Absolute rubbish. It is the western section of the ring road (train station - IKEA - Belgrade Plaza - A45/Holyhead Road) that is the busy section. The only people really using the elevated section of the ring road circling Hillfields are the pimps and the drug traffikers (sorry if I've offended anyone saying that!)

Anyway, so what if the works caused a bit of traffic disturbance for the duration of the works (and perhaps a knock on effect after completion). Isn't it worth putting up with longer transport journeys if the result is a better city centre to work, live and spend time in? As a "motorist" to label myself and a "Coventrian" I for one would rather sit in traffic a bit longer if I had a better city centre as a result.

A few points in response:

If the side of Little Park Street where all the court buildings are was built up then access to the courts would not be impeded. Currently the Combined Crown and County Court (the white building or "bunker" as Rotty called it!) could still be accessed via the ramp on St John's Street (by Severn Trent) and of course the unnecessarily large ramp running down Much Park Street towards Jordan Well and facing the Herbert Art Gallery. Plus, I'm sure that any new buildings along Little Park Street could incorporate a 'gap' site to enable greater permeability towards the court complex.

I wonder how often the bridge linking the Council House to the piss stained red block extension gets used? Is it really necessary? Would it kill the Council workers to cross the road and get some fresh air in the process?! I work in a group of offices which are not directly connected and we regularly walk outside to get from one to the next. The existing Council House bridge helps to spoil an otherwise nice view from Gosford Street/Jordan Well towards Broadgate and the Cathedral Quarter and interferes with permeability and connectivity.

I like the idea of the area currently occupied by the Civic Buildings being used for retail (a place for the tenants of Cathedral Lanes to relocate as you suggest). This is particularly so given that the University is creeping towards the city centre more and more, and dominating the east side in the process (something which must be restricted, IMHO).

I agree with you that the council workers could easily cross the road but you can guarantee someone will use it as an excuse, saying it's unnecessarily dangerous having to cross the road and is less efficient.

I didn't think there would be that many problems accessing the courts as that side of the road is dead all the time, even during the day, but some buildings do open out onto it but pathways between the buildings would easily solve it and be a much more efficient use of space and increase building density.

I think we'll see the uni encroach a bit further into the city centre before they're done, probably onto Cox St car park and possible the current site of the swimming baths should that get rebuilt (another potential use for the Civic Centre land?, or perhaps the Civic Hall/Music Venue?) but after that it'll be difficult for them wth preservation orders etc and they'll head more towards Swanswell and Parkside

had a good look at the planning application tonight. all seems too good to be true to be honest.

couple of things i noticed; the general lack of planning applications for city centre projects, can't see where the next one is coming from tbh (friargate aside). will we ever see anything at millenium view? and also the fact that friargate coventry is based in leicester city centre! lead by example gents.

I always felt the figures bandied about were a bit low - £8m for the boulevard, £18m for a tunnel and £1.5m to remove the junction I think. I expected there to be some problems with water levels given the area's history (Pool Meadow) but the bus station has coped with masses of very heavy traffic over the years. No idea about the geology of the area though.

I disagree that it'd cause major disruption though - that part of the ringroad is nowhere near as busy as the rest and traffic can be easily redirected the other way round the ring road. Yes, it'd put extra traffic on the busier parts and slightly increase journey times but nothing that'd lead to complete chaos.

I think it was more of a political decision than economic one. The boulevard was part of a bigger plan for the whole area. The bus station and bus depot were due to go to make way for new buildings, you can see it on the artists impression on the first page of the Swanswell thread. The grey vote were not impressed with the bus station going.

That's the trouble with old people - just can't accept change. They can't see that the might have got a much improved bus station elsewhere or more convenient stops nearer to were they want to be.

The bus station means they have to walk up a hill to get to the precinct - if they actually thought about it they'd want to move it.

As for that site, I think it'd be a great location for a large tower, such as the fourth spire, and would look excellent next to Millennium Place. Would also help trade in Priory Place too.

I think the bus station should be replaced by a smaller one near the train station. Pool Meadow is ultra-rough at night, when I lived in Priory Hall I saw numerous arrests (including one where two Police officers were heavily outnumbered and were it not for back up arriving it could have got really nasty!) plus I heard about a mass brawl last year right outside it. From my 2 years living in Cov city centre, I think Pool Meadow is probably the roughest part of the city centre (except the Burges) (and thats not just because I lived by it as I used to go out alot in the evenings all over the city centre but I always saw trouble by Pool Meadow)! Probably because its empty at night yobs feel safe to do what they want there.

I think Millenium View and other stalled city centre projects may be kick-started by Friargate and a recovering housing market. I reckon in about 2-3 years more city centre apartments will be built. Who buys city centre apartments? Investors and young professionals-both of which Friargate will bring into Cov.

Well complain and tell tem no one buys city centre apartments, and watch when they don't get built people will see Coventry become a better city, mark my words.

Well complain and tell tem no one buys city centre apartments, and watch when they don't get built people will see Coventry become a better city, mark my words.

When I can afford it, I want to buy a city centre apartment. I hate gardening. And stairs are such a task when you have had a few. Plus it will save a fortune on taxis home aswell.

Bit of national coverage for Friargate:-

http://www.propertyweek.com/story.asp?sectioncode=297&storycode=3150696

I can't help but notice the prejudice shown by Property Week. If this was a scheme in Birmingham then it would have received special attention and quite probably a 2-3 page spread, not a measly mention in one or two paragraphs without images.

Grr.

City centre living can be great! It all depends on the position of apartments, as it can be quite noisy with traffic and drunken yobs etc.

Agreed, Cov does have a stigma atached to it. Friargate in Cov deserves more attention than say a similiar scheme in Brum as the scheme is proportionatly HUGE for Cov whereas such a scheme wouldn't be as big a deal in Brum (although it would obviously still be great for them). With Brum attracting shoppers away from Cov for so long, maybe Friargate will start poaching businesses from Brum! After all, look at Severn Trent! I know most companys would prefer Brum, but as the rents are much cheaper in Cov you never know what Friargate may attract!

There are loads of objections to this planning application already - most of them people complaining that their house value might decrease. I would have thought it may well increase its value if there's demand to move into the area!

I agree, this scheme will boost house prices nearby. There are some nice houses the other side of the station. If I owned one I would love to have that big, ugly, empty office block by the station removed as it towers over the whole area!

the sheer volume of objections is staggering; and therefore I cannot imagine that these proposals will be approved, certainly not in their current form.

there will have to be a radical rethink on vehicular access to the city centre and the station in order for this to progress. public enquiry anyone? any hope I had of this becoming reality in the next 5 years have gone out of the window.

the sheer volume of objections is staggering; and therefore I cannot imagine that these proposals will be approved, certainly not in their current form.

there will have to be a radical rethink on vehicular access to the city centre and the station in order for this to progress. public enquiry anyone? any hope I had of this becoming reality in the next 5 years have gone out of the window.

I cannot understand why people are objecting. They are massively improving a horrible part of the city centre. Fair enough if it was an area of green like a park or a school field (which happened to me) but it isnt. Its a shitty run down area of coventry!!!

I cannot understand why people are objecting. They are massively improving a horrible part of the city centre. Fair enough if it was an area of green like a park or a school field (which happened to me) but it isnt. Its a shitty run down area of coventry!!!


http://planning.coventry.gov.uk/portal/servlets/ApplicationSearchServlet?PKID=699480

wow, so many people are objecting, but they are mostly from Stoney Road.
The worrying thing is that I think these residents have managed to get the backing of councillor Kevin Foster as he is the ward councillor as well as being Deputy leader, I think he has some influence on the development portfolio in the city aswell. I hope he puts the city ,as a whole, before his voters.

Just to pick up on an earlier comment if people are objecting on the basis of impacts on house prices there are not material considerations and would not be taken into account of in the planning officers reprot.

you can't help but feel reading through the objections that this is simply nimbyism at its worst. some make valid points and i am sure there will be a rethink on the routing of traffic, but others make some bizarre points and are nothing more than bandwagoners. no doubt some grey-haired busybody with too much time on their hands has door-knocked their way around the area scaring people with hysterical, entirely unsubstantiated claims, pointing them in the direction of the planning portal and the procedure for lodging an objection.

it's sad that some people of so short-sighted that they would seek to stand in the way of a hugely important regeneration project because misguided, ill-informed and essentially selfish reasons. the love that some have for the ring-road is also baffling. you can only wonder what the people behind the project are thinking.

"The ring road is one of the major successes in planning for
Coventry" says it all really!:bash:

This is so annoying! If you choose to buy a house by a city centre you can't expect that city centre to stay still forever! You must expect a bit of noise, parking problems etc. The people who object are being selfish and need to think about whats best for Cov!

Cllr. Foster is the Tory PPC for Cov South so will be standing down from the council (assuming he wins the seat) so he shouldn't care about a few voters in Stoney Road when thousands of constituents in Cov south could benefit from Friargate.

I think we should write in support. The Warwick Road area is desperately in need of a direct link into the city centre - as is the railway station square - and Friargate will provide this.

This HAS to go ahead!!!!

Seems to be a hell of a lot of objections to this so i have posted some support to the application

I will too when I get a chance.

I've given them my money's worth.. It desperately needs a complete redevelopment and the station needs to be completely renovated (it's actually a quite sound structure).. such as, the removal of the WHSmith kiosk, electronic ticketting barriers, glass cleaning, re-cladding, painting etc etc..

Another plan that'll be wasted, like Swanswell without the boulevard. I've just lost a lot of interest in this project now the ring road is being left in place.

Dunno what they're going to do instead of closing the junction but if they're not going to reconnect to the city centre why bother. The residents will still complain about the height of the buildings and the council will eventually cave in and reduce those too.

Was it rejected on the grounds of objections or cost, as I guess without the ring road re-modelling the cost of this has now fallen dramtically.

What about the AWM cash going towards the infrastructure on this project? Will it be diverted elsewhere - if so maybe the Swanswell boulevard might be back on!

I fear this project may become a dissapointment, but as long as the buildings get built and jobs are ultimately created it will still be good, just not as good.

The reinstatement of Warwick Road is crucial to Coventry's redeveloment. I dearly hope that they continue with the plan to deck over the ring road!

Interesting view from the Coventry Society. Seems they're in favour of remodelling J6 as planned.

Looks like they are also calling for new membership.

http://www.coventrysociety.org.uk/default.asp?PageId=1

Optimistic comment by the developers:-

http://www.friargatecoventry.co.uk/news/jan-10.php

I see they have got outline planning permission for this last month so what's the next step, are there any individual parts of the scheme which will progress first, were there any pilot schemes which already being advanced before the outline masterplan for the scheme was approved?

Theres far too much thats still to be agreed for any work to start.

Apart from the furore over the ring road junction, there are also concerns by residents over the height of the buildings, so they're still to be agreed as well. So instead of the imposing towers expect them to become 4 storey blocks at most by the time it's all watered down.

By the time anything gets done, if at all, it'll end up looking like a modernised version of whats there now I fear. Shame because it has so much potential and could provide an excellent gateway.

I've tried looking for an amicable solution to this, as I do think the residents have some valid worries despite a bit of NIMBYism, but it's practically impossible. Either the junction has to go or the surrounding land acquired to allow the slip road to go over the tracks and round the back of the station through a widened Michaelmas Road.

Losing J6 would put immense strain on 5 and 7 with the extra traffic so isn't ideal, and buying up family homes just to create a slip road seems a bit callous and would be expensive and highly unpopular.

The only other option I can see is to move the train station to the other side of Warwick Road to Central Six area, as this would be a lot easier to acquire, most of the adjoining land is already vacant and it'd provide a more direct pedestrian route across Greyfriars Green to Warwick Road, with the raft being built on the western side of J6 rather than the east, with the slip roads underneath it. This also slighter better legibility than the current plan and it also has a minor advantage of being more scenic, with the green directly in front of you and in a direct line with the spires, which would be a fantastic first glimpse of the city.

Obviously it'd come at quite a cost, as you'd have to move the platforms and build a new station, but given the problems of the current plan and how watered down it's likely to get it's unlikely to happen or have half the impact they hope as is, so the extra cost may be worth it.

It'd provide an excellent opportunity to create a modern combined rail/bus/coach station, (something I feel the current plan sorely misses) and free up Pool Meadow for development.

You'd also have to find a new use for the old listed station, which is a good example of Festival of Britain, but I'm sure it could be converted for office use or something similar, or even nighttime entertainment.

Probably not popular I know, but as far as I can see it's the only solution.

The ring road plus years of out of town development had made Coventry City centre an economic wasteland. Friargate is aimed at commuters, not drivers - people living in Coventry who work there should be able to use buses. Getting into Cov is simple, getting across it is a pain in the neck. This is far better than another vast out of town business park by the M6.

It'll also mean people have a reason to use the trains from outlying towns. Coventry's is so well linked to places like Nuneaton, Rugby, Leamington, etc, and this is where most of its commuters come from! Except they use cars, because they all work in out of town business parks. They might even grow a spine and start putting new stations in (Especially along the Kenilworth line and the Nuneaton line.). Is this why these lines are currently so underused? The city centre is hardly a hotbed for employment activity.

I'm sure there are traffic concerns, but you can't win in the UK - no one wants big roads everywhere anymore. So a development in a perfect situation to make the most use of public transport is being objected to because... a bunch of people nearby don't want cars on their roads.

The other alternative is to just say "Screw it" and keep the ringroad and use it fully, except link it directly to the suburbs with four lane highways - which is just what it is supposed to be part of. A four lane high way needs to be linked to roads with similar capacity - which will get rid off all those bottlenecks. How would the residents like to see Warwick Road turned into a four line highway that cuts right out through to Kenilworth/Leamington? it'd make my journey to work fast.

But actually, I'd rather work in the city centre and have a thriving city centre and not have more huge roads cutting the city up into a patchwork of dead areas linked by grim tunnels...

I agree totally.

I've said for a long time that the out-of-town retail and business parks should be encouraged to relocate centrally, with the land reused towards the housing quota (provided it isn't liable to flooding etc.). This would make commuting via public transport much more feasible for most and reduce congestion in so many other areas.

As you say the aim of Friargate is to get people to commute using public transport, which is why I think an integrated bus/coach/train station was drastically required but instead they decided to add a small bus hub at the side almost as an afterthought and because they'd been told they had to. If you intend to get people to use public transport at least set up a plan that looks like you mean it!

I've actually had a minor brainwave regarding this area. It's not quite as grand as the Friargate plan and wouldn't create as many jobs (although I think the estimate they've put on it is WAY too optimistic) but it wouldn't be anywhere near as expensive and be a fantastic compromise. It'd reconnect the city centre and promote development in a number of other areas around the city centre. In the long term less would definitely equal more.

I'm doing a small sketch-up model at the mo so when I've got a vague outline done I'll take some stills and post them to explain it...

Right, here's my outline plan

http://i45.tinypic.com/2dakbbn.png

http://i47.tinypic.com/fvitd4.png

http://i48.tinypic.com/t7zfrd.png

Hopefully you can see where these shots are relating to - I've added in Friars House and the Tax Office as reference points and because they're big buildings and might obstruct views.

The train station is pretty much as it is now but extended to meet Warwick Road, but is now part of a larger transport interchange with a smaller office development which I think would be sufficient to cover demand which I think Friargate has vastly overestimated. If further office space were required I’d use the Bishop St area to get Bishops Place up and running. The office developments are indicated by the bright yellow areas. I’ve just put in some towers to indicate this but it would be much denser and with the residents complaints I’d expect them to be 6-8 stories max.

http://i46.tinypic.com/vovcqo.png

The white building at the front is a bus/coach station (based around the size and layout of Pool Meadow as I think that works well and allows Pool Meadow to be demolished for a landmark building as part of Millennium Square and hopefully kickstart redevelopment in that area.) This would have direct access from J6 island so buses can approach from every direction.

The taller light brown building in the middle is an enlarged integrated car park, while the tarmac to the side of the coach station is a taxi rank and long stay coach park (and possibly a car rental office).

The most notable thing is that J6 of the ring road is totally unaffected apart from the access road into the new bus/coach station, cutting costs and complaints massively.

So in one area you’ve got a train station, a bus station, a coach station, taxi rank, car park, long stay coach park and possibly car hire. I think that covers all bases (except air travel!)

There will extra traffic on J6 with the buses but with an integrated transport exchange hopefully this will be offset by less people using cars and others re-routing to other junctions due to congestion.

The main part is the pedestrian access to the city centre, which is achieved by exiting via the upper floor onto the roof of the bus/coach station. Pedestrians can also access Spencer Park and the office developments (though I haven’t shown them).

Access to the city centre can be achieved two ways:-

Either via the long bridge straight across the ring road to Manor House Drive (with the intention of connecting this to Greyfriars Lane and Trinity St as a pedestrianized route/tourist trail and make it more attractive to development)

OR

across Warwick Road onto the intermediate building and then across the ring road onto a sloped Greyfriars Green.

http://i46.tinypic.com/mvksd0.png

This ‘stop-off’ building could be used as a number of things, such as shops to serve the office developments and local housing, although I chose to use it as the new bus depot, allowing the current site next to Swanswell to be developed.

The spire thing in the middle is a Gateway Arch, welcoming you into the city centre but also acting as a signpost, drawing you towards it and therefore eventually the city centre. Making it three spires tells you that you’re in Coventry and gives a sense of place.

It also acts as a signpost for those heading towards the station from town

http://i48.tinypic.com/s3euqw.png

The bridge onto Greyfriars Green is strategically placed so that you get a nice green view on entry, with views of all three spires in the background. (I know there aren’t any other buildings but they wouldn’t obstruct the spires and the topography isn’t included but as the two main spires would be on the top of the hill they’d be even more prominent)

http://i50.tinypic.com/swdb0o.png

The entire thing certainly isn’t as grand as Friargate and would have lower overall returns, but potentially higher RoI as IMO it’s more realistic and a LOT cheaper and less disruptive without having to alter the ringroad. I reckon it’d cost 1/4 to 1/5 of the current plan. It also creates a much better first impression of the city, greatly improves transition into the city centre and would aid redevelopment elsewhere in the city centre long term.

Interesting, but I think the current masterplan is excellent - both for the massing and the layout of the buildings with a square and a road that leads directly down to Greyfriar's Lane over the ringroad. The council simply need to grow some balls and not let it get downsized because a few streets nearby don't want tall buildings or are scared of people using the road, which I doubt will happen due to the location of the development!

If the number of jobs has been overestimated, then it won't happen anyway and will be downsized to look like an out of town retail park.

It has to be remembered that Cannon Kirk are a commercial firm, so won't really be interesting in using vast amounts of land for things that don't make any return such as bus stations and station extensions. Office buildings/shops/restaurants/leisure venues/housing/halls of residences/hotels are far better commercial prospects!

I'd prefer this area to be developed, as it should make the area easy to access by public transport for commuters from Nuneaton/Leamington/Solihull/Rugby and also create a series of public spaces from the station down to the (Perhaps revamped) shopping core.

Pool Meadow is not going to be demolished - it's part of the council's latest "strategy" that it's going to stay at pool meadow.

Which is a shame, as it's purely being done to satisfy the old folks. Why should they care, they'll be dead soon?

I understand that my idea wouldn't look as appetizing to a developer at first glance, but when you consider the cost and awkwardness of building that raft (which will cause at least some traffic disruption) the current one isn't great either. I reckon it's very reliant on pulling in 15k jobs but I really can't see that happening. It lost out to Earlsdon for QCDA which doesn't bode well. If it doesn't, as you say it'll end up looking another out-of-town retail park - really worth it for all that hard work and would really improve the entrance to the city eh?

The first thing that will get pulled if it can't sell enough is the pedestrian access raft and J6 remodelling due to the huge expense for no real return and the problem it's causing with locals, and without that what's really great about it?

You like the density, as do I which is why I said I would have a similar density in my office locations as Friargate, I just couldn't be bothered to draw it all in at the time.

I'm trying not to look too much at the buildings they've shown in masterplans as they are supposedly just indicative, but with money constraints I think they'll end up quite similar and therefore boring - boxy and single height rows with a very 60's post-modernist feel - not anything particularly attractive or inspiring to make a visitor or potential investor think "WOW, this is where i want to be". I also don't think that the raft does enough to provide a sense of place and legibility, although it is undoubtedly much, much better than the current set-up.

It's not a bad plan by any means, but for £1.5bn I don't think it's VFM and won't happen with all the objections.

Mine would be a lot cheaper, has a far more obtainable employment level to get it going and would cause less disruption to traffic and upset residents less, creating a transport interchange which could become a major draw for the city's long term redevelopement and a choice of attractive, unobstructed entrances to the city centre with good sightlines and legibility.

Then Cannon Kirk could do a massive office development around Bishops St - it'd have far less problems and cost a great deal less.

I'm aware that the council plan to keep Pool Meadow open for the forseeable future but I guarantee if somebody came up with a decent plan for a replacement and something to build there it'd go.

The "raft" is, as far as I know, going to be the first thing to go ahead and at least some of the funding is already in place for it... It's probably a major selling point for the development as well to have it linked to the rest of the city centre.

Friargate is really nothing more than an attempt to create the sort of "inner city" business area most cities already have - the urban grid of streets/old mills/etc that you find in Leicester, Brum, Manchester, Sheffield. Coventry never had this due to the way it developed from a small medieval market town -> industrial city with "zoned" development.

The rocket pub by the station is now boarded up. This is almost certainly for the same reasons lots of other pubs are closing but this building is due to be demolished as part of the station redevelopment.

http://i43.tinypic.com/nyuq0.jpg

The rocket pub by the station is now boarded up. This is almost certainly for the same reasons lots of other pubs are closing but this building is due to be demolished as part of the station redevelopment.

http://i43.tinypic.com/nyuq0.jpg

Only found that out when I was going to pop in for a swifty before going back to Manchester. Not surprised, the pub has been dying slowly for the last few years. Highfield Rd's closure didn't help.

Another thread revival.

What's going on with Friargate now? Is the project dead yet?

Last I heard, the usual bunch were protesting against the scheme because of major traffic concerns around cheylesmore.

I've not heard anything, apart from the protests and plans to change the ringroad access aspect... I guess things are still going on "behind the scenes". The Copthorne House is apparently the first thing to go.

I've not heard anything, apart from the protests and plans to change the ringroad access aspect... I guess things are still going on "behind the scenes". The Copthorne House is apparently the first thing to go.

Good, the building is hideous...

I suppose no news is good news, although I am expecting the worst.

I think Friargate is viable, its just the completion time may be put back a bit. The gov wants a private sector-led recovery and this would fit into that nicely. This really does have potential in a way that Jerde doesn't.

The rocket is now open again...

Not seen this render before. Bit small I know but it shows a view of the proposed buildings from the bridge over the station car park.

http://i54.tinypic.com/28le16a.jpg

Not seen this render before. Bit small I know but it shows a view of the proposed buildings from the bridge over the station car park.

http://i54.tinypic.com/28le16a.jpg

I'm struggling to get my bearings on this one!

I'm struggling to get my bearings on this one!

To me it looks like those buildings would be in the place of the old Parkside site / Burger King / The American Golf Centre

It's from the bridge over the Central Six car park looking towards town. King Henry VIII school would be just behind you.

Not seen this render before. Bit small I know but it shows a view of the proposed buildings from the bridge over the station car park.

http://i54.tinypic.com/28le16a.jpg

That photo shows one of my main bugbears with the Friargate scheme.

The Spencer Park area where this image is done from and the station entrance area about the only two places where it would be possible to see all three spires in one view without having a large gap between them.

This image shows that one of the spires would be partially obscured from this vantage point, and that's with the smaller residential buildings.

Showcasing the Three Spires directly from the station entrance should be a major design consideration of Friargate, as it would be an excellent entrance to the cityand provide the most direct route into the city centre, but instead they've just added more stuff in front of them and persisted with the weird dog-leg to the left approach. I know HMRC is now in the way but given the number of buildings Friargate is supposed to house relocation wouldn't be an issue.

Considering the action plan is supposed to promote preserving views of the three spires, and has put blocks on large buildings in places where those views amount to a small glimpse of the top of one spire, to then allow views that are actually worth saving/restoring to be obscured is just barmy.

You will see the spires from many of the office windows. :)

You will see the spires from many of the office windows. :)

Quite true. I'll just ask the residents/businesses if I can wander in for a quick gander every now and again :lol:

They should be for everyone - a welcoming view to anyone visiting the city centre via train (and bus if I had my way)

http://www.friargatecoventry.co.uk/images/main-circles/aerial-view-large2.png

Taken from the Friargate site.

Not really any radical changes. Biggest is the slip road off the ring road for taxis (although I hope buses also get to use it) to reduce the impact on residential streets. This should have been included in the original proposal, but better still they should move the bus hub and taxi rank to the west side so it can be accessed from Warwick Road and not the residential streets.

Other changes are:-

- a drop-off point by the station (which I thought was already there but was in fact a service area) hich again is welcome but should have been there from the start.
- Warwick Road isn't being straightened anymore to preserve the trees (I hadn't noticed they even planned to alter the route and assumed it just followed the current road, so it's an unnecessary expense saved.
- the hotel has switched sides to allow for better access for deliveries from warwick Road rather than the residential (again something I suggested from the start)
- and supposedly some of the access from junction 6 has been restored.

Reading the Telegraph report the main feeling was one of frustration as the residents didn't feel the developers had understood their concerns at all.

They are going to allow traffic from the south to go "right" onto the ringroad by allowing it to go across the ringroad and then down to the junction via new union street. So the bridge over the ringroad remains... (Allowing traffic to go right was one issue that was under discussion and they have solved it this way)

They are going to allow traffic from the south to go "right" onto the ringroad by allowing it to go across the ringroad and then down to the junction at new union street. So the bridge over the ringroad remains... (Allowing traffic to go right was one issue that was under discussion.)

Im glad that they did not add the 'right-turn' onto to the ring-road. Hopefully New Union Street and Junction 5 will also be improved to help with the traffic flow.

They are going to allow traffic from the south to go "right" onto the ringroad by allowing it to go across the ringroad and then down to the junction via new union street. So the bridge over the ringroad remains... (Allowing traffic to go right was one issue that was under discussion and they have solved it this way)

So the right turn at J6 is in fact a left turn at J5? Or have I misunderstood? As that is how I believe they suggested people do the right turn beforehand.

Don't get me wrong - it's not the worst solution in the world but is still just pushing the problem further down the chain by increasing the amount of traffic at J5.

It just seems a bit like a 'diversion' route to me. Instead of allowing the direct route at the junction which already exists, we're going to make you go an extra 300 yards down the road and turn there.

As long as there are two new unobstructed overground walkways from the station, and warwick road, to the city centre, i am happy. this is the first step in breaching the ringroad so that developments can spill out beyond it!

As long as there are two new unobstructed overground walkways from the station, and warwick road, to the city centre, i am happy. this is the first step in breaching the ringroad so that developments can spill out beyond it!

Yes... Me too.

Every morning at rush hour I get off at Junction six, go down new union street (Drop the wife off) and then get back on at five. It's absolutely deserted. If there are any traffic problems, I've managed to miss them all in the last seven years!

...http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/2010/11/25/new-friargate-plans-unveiled-at-packed-council-house-meeting-92746-27715064/

As long as there are two new unobstructed overground walkways from the station, and warwick road, to the city centre, i am happy. this is the first step in breaching the ringroad so that developments can spill out beyond it!

They aren't unobstructed though - the slip road intersects it.

I heard that at the recent meeting with the planners residents were complaining about the design not taking future traffic problems into account? Seriously, what traffic problems?

I drive around that junction everyday and ive never seen any queues or traffic of any kind to warrant any real complaints. Removing the junction as it is would bring only benefits IMO and divert people back into the city....

I agree Mr B. I use that junction every morning and it's very light around there traffic wise.

The only queuing at that junction is for traffic getting in and out of Central Six.

The only queuing at that junction is for traffic getting in and out of Central Six.

That queue is caused by the poor street design more than anything else. What does that roundabout actually give to the city? It's awful, get rid of it please Friargate planners...oh and while your at it knock central six down too, what an eyesore.

I heard that at the recent meeting with the planners residents were complaining about the design not taking future traffic problems into account? Seriously, what traffic problems?

I drive around that junction everyday and ive never seen any queues or traffic of any kind to warrant any real complaints. Removing the junction as it is would bring only benefits IMO and divert people back into the city....

From the 15k extra workers (not that I think they'll get even half that number)?

Some will come via the train, but they'll all be from outside Coventry and the bus hub won't be convenient for most in Coventry either if it has the same services as the current station, a handful will walk or bike it, but that still leaves a lot of extra traffic.

And having been round there around 7am/pm it can get pretty busy on that junction (even with the city centre as dead as it is) as that's the time most people are getting their trains or get back into the city.

As for what that roundabout does, it prevents all the traffic from the Leamington/Kenilworth roads being forced onto the even smaller J5 because of the stupid pedestrianisation and road layout of Warwick Road in the city centre.

If the planners had had the courage of their convictions to do away with the junction entirely and allow a straight, level crossing over the ringroad instead of keeping the stupid dog-leg arrangement we have I'd have at least admired their determination, but with this attempt to appease people and leaving one or two exits open it's just going to result in a mess. You'd have to connect Croft Road to New Union St by knocking down the Arcade and Bull Yard to allow traffic to turn left towards J7 then though.

If they want to bridge the ring road that's fantastic, but follow Birmingham's route and go over it properly.

From the 15k extra workers (not that I think they'll get even half that number)?

Some will come via the train, but they'll all be from outside Coventry and the bus hub won't be convenient for most in Coventry either if it has the same services as the current station, a handful will walk or bike it, but that still leaves a lot of extra traffic.

And having been round there around 7am/pm it can get pretty busy on that junction (even with the city centre as dead as it is) as that's the time most people are getting their trains or get back into the city.

As for what that roundabout does, it prevents all the traffic from the Leamington/Kenilworth roads being forced onto the even smaller J5 because of the stupid pedestrianisation and road layout of Warwick Road in the city centre.

If the planners had had the courage of their convictions to do away with the junction entirely and allow a straight, level crossing over the ringroad instead of keeping the stupid dog-leg arrangement we have I'd have at least admired their determination, but with this attempt to appease people and leaving one or two exits open it's just going to result in a mess. You'd have to connect Croft Road to New Union St by knocking down the Arcade and Bull Yard to allow traffic to turn left towards J7 then though.

If they want to bridge the ring road that's fantastic, but follow Birmingham's route and go over it properly.

Eh? Why would you have to connect croft road to bullyard? There's already a road from Warwick Road to Croft Road. What dog leg arrangement? The plan is to allow warwick road to go straight over.... Or am I missing something?

I think they're making the best out of a very shitty situation.

Eh? Why would you have to connect croft road to bullyard? There's already a road from Warwick Road to Croft Road. What dog leg arrangement? The plan is to allow warwick road to go straight over.... Or am I missing something?

I think they're making the best out of a very shitty situation.

Am I right in saying that warwick road will be made a one way road for traffic going into the city? If thats the case then I dont see any traffic problems arising, even with an extra 15k workers. Workers and pedestrians in friargate will have a seemingly high capacity road into town and a large capacity pedestrian street directly from the station (not too familiar with the plans so please correct me if I'm wrong). Surely this is more that enough to handle traffic going into town.

As for traffic moving into friargate, as well as the large pedestrian walk towards the station, there will be available slip roads from the ring road (there will still be at least one route on and off the ring road?). I think what they are doing with the junction is effectively removing the junction as the 'only way in' and forcing any serious traffic to divert to different routes. But I dont think it would even come to that.

Eh? Why would you have to connect croft road to bullyard? There's already a road from Warwick Road to Croft Road. What dog leg arrangement? The plan is to allow warwick road to go straight over.... Or am I missing something?

I think they're making the best out of a very shitty situation.

I apologise - there is indeed a road already linking the two.

The dog leg I was referring to was for pedestrians, not traffic. You start going forward, have to veer to the left to cross the ring road, then straighten up again to go up Warwick Road. Having said that the building layout would make the route easy to follow, especially compared to the current arrangement, but the problem with that is it creates even more obstructions to the views of the spires, something we should be trying to make the most of from a major visitor entrance.

It is a shitty situation that they've tried to plan around but for £1.5bn I think they could do better.

Am I right in saying that warwick road will be made a one way road for traffic going into the city? If thats the case then I dont see any traffic problems arising, even with an extra 15k workers. Workers and pedestrians in friargate will have a seemingly high capacity road into town and a large capacity pedestrian street directly from the station (not too familiar with the plans so please correct me if I'm wrong). Surely this is more that enough to handle traffic going into town.

As for traffic moving into friargate, as well as the large pedestrian walk towards the station, there will be available slip roads from the ring road (there will still be at least one route on and off the ring road?). I think what they are doing with the junction is effectively removing the junction as the 'only way in' and forcing any serious traffic to divert to different routes. But I dont think it would even come to that.

Have you seen the car park at the Memorial Park since Severn Trent opened? It's almost full because of the park and ride they set up, and it's not exactly a tiny car park.

And that's for just 1700 workers in a building with a car park built in. Times that by ten and you get some idea of the scale of traffic that would be wanting to get into the area. Figures that developers bandy about for the amount of workers who'll travel by public transport and car are always wrong, with many more arriving by car than expected, yet every time they appear shocked by this.

The train line is only going to be useful for people who live outside the city. The bus hub will only have a limited number of services, so lots of people would have to transfer buses if they want to get there. Public transport is provided in the scheme, but I don't see how it'll be a better alternative to a car for many.

They are indeed forcing traffic to divert to different routes - buses appear to be travelling to the bus hub via predominantly residential streets (as were the delivery trucks until the recent changes) in order to keep them off Warwick Road.

Have you seen the car park at the Memorial Park since Severn Trent opened? It's almost full because of the park and ride they set up, and it's not exactly a tiny car park.

And that's for just 1700 workers in a building with a car park built in. Times that by ten and you get some idea of the scale of traffic that would be wanting to get into the area. Figures that developers bandy about for the amount of workers who'll travel by public transport and car are always wrong, with many more arriving by car than expected, yet every time they appear shocked by this.

The train line is only going to be useful for people who live outside the city. The bus hub will only have a limited number of services, so lots of people would have to transfer buses if they want to get there. Public transport is provided in the scheme, but I don't see how it'll be a better alternative to a car for many.

They are indeed forcing traffic to divert to different routes - buses appear to be travelling to the bus hub via predominantly residential streets (as were the delivery trucks until the recent changes) in order to keep them off Warwick Road.

There are a fair few out-of-town shopping areas that could be used as 'park and ride' schemes, as they are mostly empty during the week, for example Tesco Arena, Gallagher retail park, Morrisons in binley etc

There are a fair few out-of-town shopping areas that could be used as 'park and ride' schemes, as they are mostly empty during the week, for example Tesco Arena, Gallagher retail park, Morrisons in binley etc

There is a long term plan for a Tesco Arena rail sation so that would fit wth this idea.

I apologise - there is indeed a road already linking the two.

The dog leg I was referring to was for pedestrians, not traffic. You start going forward, have to veer to the left to cross the ring road, then straighten up again to go up Warwick Road. Having said that the building layout would make the route easy to follow, especially compared to the current arrangement, but the problem with that is it creates even more obstructions to the views of the spires, something we should be trying to make the most of from a major visitor entrance.

It is a shitty situation that they've tried to plan around but for £1.5bn I think they could do better.

I suspect the vast majority of people don't care too much about the view of the spires, and you've not been able to see them from the station in decades. Whether or not it'd be a particularly impressive view is another matter (You can get a good view from the higher ground on Spencer Park...) as there are lots of other buildings in the way within the ringroad. That third Spire (Greyfriars) is quite small and on low ground as well... It's a struggle to see it from most places.

Maybe they should build a viewing platform as part of Friargate...

It's a good start, IMHO, and might set precendence for more ringroad removal. I actually think the ringroad is stifling the city centre's growth and economy now.

There is a long term plan for a Tesco Arena rail sation so that would fit wth this idea.

Yes. This is part of the "KNUCKLE" thing to get more use out of the line between Nuneaton and Leamington. I think it's heavily reliant on Friargate to make it viable for use as a commuter line.

At the moment, it keeps getting thrown out due to no viable business plan...

Am I right in saying that warwick road will be made a one way road for traffic going into the city? If thats the case then I dont see any traffic problems arising, even with an extra 15k workers. Workers and pedestrians in friargate will have a seemingly high capacity road into town and a large capacity pedestrian street directly from the station (not too familiar with the plans so please correct me if I'm wrong). Surely this is more that enough to handle traffic going into town.

As for traffic moving into friargate, as well as the large pedestrian walk towards the station, there will be available slip roads from the ring road (there will still be at least one route on and off the ring road?). I think what they are doing with the junction is effectively removing the junction as the 'only way in' and forcing any serious traffic to divert to different routes. But I dont think it would even come to that.

I think the revised plan has Warwick Road as a two way road now.

I think the revised plan has Warwick Road as a two way road now.

That's a shame, a one-way road would force people into the city centre. The city centre is pretty poor and a larger crowd coming in would give the place a bit of life at least.

Have you seen the car park at the Memorial Park since Severn Trent opened? It's almost full because of the park and ride they set up, and it's not exactly a tiny car park.

And that's for just 1700 workers in a building with a car park built in. Times that by ten and you get some idea of the scale of traffic that would be wanting to get into the area. Figures that developers bandy about for the amount of workers who'll travel by public transport and car are always wrong, with many more arriving by car than expected, yet every time they appear shocked by this.

The train line is only going to be useful for people who live outside the city. The bus hub will only have a limited number of services, so lots of people would have to transfer buses if they want to get there. Public transport is provided in the scheme, but I don't see how it'll be a better alternative to a car for many.

They are indeed forcing traffic to divert to different routes - buses appear to be travelling to the bus hub via predominantly residential streets (as were the delivery trucks until the recent changes) in order to keep them off Warwick Road.

My council contacts tell me that since Severn Trent has opened, everything has been chaos. Traffic, Park & Ride and issues with access to the train station. The A45 blackspots have also become considerably worse.

My understanding is that these extra 1,700 people/journeys have pushed the network over its limits and now all the councillors are jumping up and down trying to get things sorted, including an urgent expansion of Park & Ride North. No other news yet.

My council contacts tell me that since Severn Trent has opened, everything has been chaos. Traffic, Park & Ride and issues with access to the train station. The A45 blackspots have also become considerably worse.

My understanding is that these extra 1,700 people/journeys have pushed the network over its limits and now all the councillors are jumping up and down trying to get things sorted, including an urgent expansion of Park & Ride North. No other news yet.

What did they expect? ST relocated, so I imagine most of their employees commute in from Birmingham down the A45 and then down Kenilworth road to get to the park and ride.

What did they expect? ST relocated, so I imagine most of their employees commute in from Birmingham down the A45 and then down Kenilworth road to get to the park and ride.

In a way it proves my point of how many problems would be caused by the extra 15k people.

I suspect the vast majority of people don't care too much about the view of the spires, and you've not been able to see them from the station in decades. Whether or not it'd be a particularly impressive view is another matter (You can get a good view from the higher ground on Spencer Park...) as there are lots of other buildings in the way within the ringroad. That third Spire (Greyfriars) is quite small and on low ground as well... It's a struggle to see it from most places.

Maybe they should build a viewing platform as part of Friargate...

It's a good start, IMHO, and might set precendence for more ringroad removal. I actually think the ringroad is stifling the city centre's growth and economy now.

I think if such a plan were put forward it would be well received.

Spencer Park is probably a better view (until Friargate possibly obscures it) but how many visitors to the city will be arriving from there? The view from the train station would be more than acceptable and give a good first impression.

The reason why this would be such a good place is BECAUSE of the smallest spire built at the bottom of the hill. From the east and west it's difficult to see all three spires in one go because of the gap between Christchurch and Holy Trinity and from the north it's on the wrong side of the hill so barely visible. The view from the south/south-west is the only real one that makes all three spires clearly visible in a single view because it's on the right side of the hill and although it's the smallest spire and the lowest of the three because it's closer the perspective makes it look bigger.

I understand there's some large buildings in the way, like the tax office and those apartments, but frankly rather than putting restrictions on tall buildings from virtually everywhere in the city centre you can get even a faint glimpse of a single spire, allow the tall buildings in some of these spaces in order to preserve the Spencer Park views and enable the introduction of the view from the station by preventing further tall buildings and plan to demolish the buildings currently in the way over time.

In a way it proves my point of how many problems would be caused by the extra 15k people.

I don't think it proves anything. ST have only been open for a few months, and the main source of complaints has been from people who want to drive to the Park and Ride so they can walk their dogs. Over time the workforce may well change so that it's locally based and people may relocate to be nearer so they can use transport links. If Coventry's too unattractive to people, then the council need to get on sharpish and make it into a place people want to move to instead of its current status as being somewhere people want to leave very quickly.

You can't win: the Park and Ride is being used for what it's designed for and people are complaining!

Alternatively, we could just continue to build out of town business parks that easy for commuters and continue the way Coventry's been going for decades: dying a slow, painful death.

Unfortunately, times have changed: people don't get a job at "The Herberts" and stay there for their whole life and live near the factory. People change jobs frequently, companies move, go under, and people tend to commute greater distances or from places that are now poorly linked (i.e. Kenilworth). It doesn't help that Coventry's been zoned in such a way that its employment zones are on the outskirts. We can't keep pandering to car owners and basing all our development over whether Fred Smith from some suburb of Solihull can drive to his city centre job in Coventry without any problem! Fred Smith's either going to have to put up with it, change jobs, or move! (If he changes jobs, then someone in Coventry can take over it!)

Here's the construction schedule document from the planning app:

http://planning.coventry.gov.uk/portal/servlets/AttachmentShowServlet?ImageName=886600

The Warwick Road area is going to be developed first, apparently, with the flanking bits and the bit over the ringroad following.

Ten to fifteen years.