Year PPP PPP per capita Population
2004 $7.75 trillion $5962 1.3 billion
2005 $8.37 trillion
2006 $9.04 trillion
2007 $9.76 trillion
2008 $10.54 trillion
2009 $11.38 trillion
2010 $12.30 trillion $9111 1.35 billion
2011 $13.16 trillion
2012 $14.08 trillion
2013 $15.07 trillion
2014 $16.12 trillion
2015 $17.25 trillion $12591 1.38 billion
2016 $18.46 trillion
2017 $19.45 trillion
2018 $21.13 trillion
2019 $22.61 trillion
2020 $24.19 trillion $17279 1.40 billion
2021 $25.89 trillion
2022 $27.70 trillion
2023 $29.64 trillion $21171 1.40 billion
2024 $31.71 trillion
2025 $33.93 trillion
2026 $35.97 trillion
2027 $38.13 trillion
2028 $40.42 trillion $29079 1.39 billion
2029 $42.84 trillion
2030 $45.41 trillion $32669 1.39 billion

2005-2010,the growth rate will be 8%
2011-2025,it will be 7%,after that we suppose it 6%.

China's ppp will surpass USA from 2010 to 2015 to be the biggest economy in the world!

The scientific quality of your forecast is rather dull, my friend,

Earth will be destroyed by then. Natural resources gone. It will be unsustaintable. The population will descrease 99.9%. Man will relive a long and terrible stone age.

The scientific quality of your forecast is rather dull, my friend,

i think this prediction is probably exact. ;)

Earth will be destroyed by then. Natural resources gone. It will be unsustaintable. The population will descrease 99.9%. Man will relive a long and terrible stone age.

well,you could prepare for it right now,that will be very fast. :hahaha:

China's ppp will surpass USA from 2010 to 2015 to be the biggest economy in the world!

But isn't that assuming that the United States economy doesn't grow at all until that point?

But isn't that assuming that the United States economy doesn't grow at all until that point?


if you think US's ppp could be over $17.25 billion in 2015. ;)

Well, if the US keeps 3.9% growth rate until 2015, yeah, it's PPP will be over $17.25.
It's dumb to try and predict the future, though---there are a million things that could happen.

Nice to hear China can finally support its population better

Well, if the US keeps 3.9% growth rate until 2015, yeah, it's PPP will be over $17.25.
It's dumb to try and predict the future, though---there are a million things that could happen.

3.9%?that will be very difficult for US :bleh:

I don't think so [it grew at about 4.5% last year if I remember correctly]--but who knows. I'm just making meaningless projections, like you.

I don't think so [it grew at about 4.5% last year if I remember correctly]--but who knows. I'm just making meaningless projections, like you.

on verra. :cheers:

China's econmy will pass the US by 2031.

The Chinese're drunk on the bubble now. But the Chinese have been poor all this while, so we should sympathize with their delight.

The Chinese're drunk on the bubble now. But the Chinese have been poor all this while, so we should sympathize with their delight.

lol,chinese have become poor for just 100 years,but been relatively rich for 5000 years.

well,chinese will finish this short poor time in 20 years.

i think american should be happy for china's rising,in several years,there will be a basket of chinese cities playing with you in city vs city forum,that will be exciting,no?

lol,chinese have become poor for just 100 years,but been relatively rich for 5000 years.

well,chinese will finish this short poor time in 20 years.

i think american should be happy for china's rising,in several years,there will be a basket of chinese cities playing with you in city vs city forum,that will be exciting,no?

Chinese threads are exciting even now.

if you think US's ppp could be over $17.25 billion in 2015. ;)

um.. man look at the market exchange rate.. can chine surpass over 5000$ by 2025??

um.. man look at the market exchange rate.. can chine surpass over 5000$ by 2025??

lol,ignorant boy,have you studied any economic knowledge?

GDP will coincide with PPP for developping countries in a long term[maybe 20-30 years],so not necessary for us to look at the exchange rate,don't you know RMB is "a little" underestimed? :sleepy:

No need to predict. Just to show the result in 2023.

30 years, and there will be two or three "USA" in the world.
However, the precondition is that No War would happen. Nuclear weapons are hidden, but should not be forgoten. The other possibility is that asia and america would restart from stone ages.
People should be patient and realistic when considering the development of other nations. If germany could predict the development of USA in the 20th century, would it begin the WWII?
USA should stop suspecting china, or the 21th century would be far more unpredictable. :)

i don't think americans will be so stupid to take chances to start a war with china,both know well that there wouldn't be winner.

I don't think rich a rich country automaticaly qualifies it as a developed country.

Even though China is rich people might still be poor. And the cities might still be falling apart

I don't think rich a rich country automaticaly qualifies it as a developed country.

Even though China is rich people might still be poor. And the cities might still be falling apart

OMG,so what's the previous example that can be "Even though the country is rich,people might still be poor."?

But now USA is instigating taiwan to challenge the integrity and security of China, selling them weapons, preparing to take a part in the possible chinese civil war.

Do they really know what they are doing?

But now USA is instigating taiwan to challenge the integrity and security of China, selling them weapons, preparing to take a part in the possible chinese civil war.

Do they really know what they are doing?
yes,look at waht the USA doing.
instigating taiwan to buy weaponsfrom USA,and prevent the european Countries selling weapons to China.
I hate USA.

2002GDP:1.24trillion-----Population:1.284billion-----GDP per capita:966
2002 Nominal growth rate:14%
2003GDP:1.41trillion-----Population:1.292billion-----GDP per capita:1091
2003Nominal growth rate:15%
2004GDP:1.65trillion-----Population:1.299billion-----GDP per capita:1270
2004Nominal growth rate:17%

Conjecture:[2005-2010]Nominal growth rate:15%
2005GDP:1.90trillion-----Population:1.306billion-----GDP per capita:1455
2006GDP:2.19trillion-----Population:1.313billion-----GDP per capita:1668
2007GDP:2.52trillion-----Population:1.320billion-----GDP per capita:1909
2008GDP:2.90trillion-----Population:1.327billion-----GDP per capita:2185
2009GDP:3.34trillion-----Population:1.334billion-----GDP per capita:2504
2010GDP:3.84trillion-----Population:1.341billion-----GDP per capita:2864
[2010-2020]Nominal growth rate:13%
2011GDP:4.34trillion-----Population:1.348billion-----GDP per capita:3220
2012GDP:4.90trillion-----Population:1.355billion-----GDP per capita:3616
2013GDP:5.54trillion-----Population:1.362billion-----GDP per capita:4068
2014GDP:6.26trillion-----Population:1.369billion-----GDP per capita:4573
2015GDP:7.07trillion-----Population:1.376billion-----GDP per capita:5138
2016GDP:7.99trillion-----Population:1.383billion-----GDP per capita:5777
2017GDP:9.03trillion-----Population:1.390billion-----GDP per capita:6496
2018GDP:10.20trillion-----Population:1.397billion-----GDP per capita:7301
2019GDP:11.53trillion-----Population:1.404billion-----GDP per capita:8212
2020GDP:13.03trillion-----Population:1.411billion-----GDP per capita:9235
[2021-2025]Nominal growth rate:11%
2021GDP:14.46trillion-----Population:1.416billion-----GDP per capita:10212
2022GDP:16.05trillion-----Population:1.421billion-----GDP per capita:11295
2023GDP:17.81trillion-----Population:1.426billion-----GDP per capita:12489
2024GDP:19.77trillion-----Population:1.431billion-----GDP per capita:13816
2025GDP:21.95trillion-----Population:1.436billion-----GDP per capita:15279
[2025-2030]Nominal growth rate:9%
2026GDP:23.93trillion-----Population:1.440billion-----GDP per capita:16618
2027GDP:26.08trillion-----Population:1.444billion-----GDP per capita:18061
2028GDP:28.43trillion-----Population:1.448billion-----GDP per capita:19634
2029GDP:30.99trillion-----Population:1.452billion-----GDP per capita:21343
2030GDP:33.78trillion-----Population:1.456billion-----GDP per capita:23201

I think 2.5% per year for the US would be more accurate. Assuming that China suffers no economic slow down or collapse, sometime between 2025 and 2050 it will likely have a GDP MER per capita that would be concidered "developed".

OMG,so what's the previous example that can be "Even though the country is rich,people might still be poor."?

China right now.

most Asian nations are poor,you know that

Yea but I am talking about rich countries. China is rich.

Conjecture:[2005-2010]Nominal growth rate:15%
2005GDP:1.90trillion-----Population:1.306billion-----GDP per capita:1455
2006GDP:2.19trillion-----Population:1.313billion-----GDP per capita:1668
2007GDP:2.52trillion-----Population:1.320billion-----GDP per capita:1909
2008GDP:2.90trillion-----Population:1.327billion-----GDP per capita:2185
2009GDP:3.34trillion-----Population:1.334billion-----GDP per capita:2504
2010GDP:3.84trillion-----Population:1.341billion-----GDP per capita:2864
[2010-2020]Nominal growth rate:13%
2011GDP:4.34trillion-----Population:1.348billion-----GDP per capita:3220
2012GDP:4.90trillion-----Population:1.355billion-----GDP per capita:3616
2013GDP:5.54trillion-----Population:1.362billion-----GDP per capita:4068
2014GDP:6.26trillion-----Population:1.369billion-----GDP per capita:4573
2015GDP:7.07trillion-----Population:1.376billion-----GDP per capita:5138
2016GDP:7.99trillion-----Population:1.383billion-----GDP per capita:5777
2017GDP:9.03trillion-----Population:1.390billion-----GDP per capita:6496
2018GDP:10.20trillion-----Population:1.397billion-----GDP per capita:7301
2019GDP:11.53trillion-----Population:1.404billion-----GDP per capita:8212
2020GDP:13.03trillion-----Population:1.411billion-----GDP per capita:9235
capita:23201

[...]

Could you kindly explain on what assumptions you're forecast is based? From what I have seen up to now is that people just post about any growth figure they like. Do you know any example in recent history where an economy could grow for about forty years with two-digit (real) growth rates? Especially when taking into consideration that China's economy currently is not growing in a two-digit range. My dear economists: growth is usually predicted in real growth figures.

Apart from that this number crunching is highly hypothetical. It does not reflect any economic crisis, inflation, changing interest rate, changing political situation etc. - with other words: it's useless.

yes,look at waht the USA doing.
instigating taiwan to buy weaponsfrom USA,and prevent the european Countries selling weapons to China.
I hate USA.

Nevertheless the US is 美国 for the Chinese.

You guys are way too optimistic on those China figures.

Chinas working population is predicted to shrink at the begining of 2015 and then continue past 2050 while the USA maintains a median age of 35 and will have an even youger population then it does now aswell as a larger general population. Just a thought..

i don't think americans will be so stupid to take chances to start a war with china,both know well that there wouldn't be winner.

I think China had better not open war against the US. Because the US, the UK, Australia and Canada excluding Quebec are Anglosaxon countries which shared the same blood.

^ Unfortunetly many people in these countries do not think this, which is a shame.

I think China had better not open war against the US. Because the US, the UK, Australia and Canada excluding Quebec are Anglosaxon countries which shared the same blood.

really? :rofl:

Those predictions are too optimistic. The US is far ahead of China in terms of individual standard of living, quality of life, level of education, income, healthcare and most other indicators of health. Also, China is still far behind the West and Japan in many technology industries, although it has closed the gap rapidly in others in the past few years. However, take the auto industry for example. Most cars in China are foreign brands produced by joint venture companies that are completely dominated by the foreign maker and brand.

However, with that said, China's economic growth is not exagerrated and is very real. China will be a great player in the future, and will probably overtake the US by 2040 as the world's most important economy. China today is a very dynamic nation and economy, and despite China's many areas of weakness, I believe that the pure entrepreneurial spirit, intelligence and work ethic of the vast Chinese population will be the single driving force that will make China the great superpower of this century.

Simply using GDP figures to predict the balance of power is complete stupidity. GDP figures tell very little, it's methods of estimation are sometimes very irrelevant to actual wealth and they also do not take into account the cost of living. For example, an American earning $30,000 living in New York will have a VASTLY poorer material life than a Chinese earning $10,000 living in Chongqing. GDP doesn't mean shit. Plus, the market exchange rate system of measuring GDP is even more horribly inaccurate. In dollar figures, the GDP of several European countries ballooned because of the appreciation of the Euro, when in reality their relative wealth and living standards have only stagnated as many European economies have little growth and are plagued by unemployment and the welfare state. Also, China's current GDP based on dollar exchange rate is comparable to the size of the UK or France, however, China is already the world's leading consumer in a wide range of goods ranging from cell phones to scrap metal. Again, GDP doesn't tell you anything. Anyone who depends on GDP figures to judge geopolitics and the global balance of power is a complete short sighted imbecile.

^ Unfortunetly many people in these countries do not think this, which is a shame.

Well the alliance between your country and the US is the most strong though. Or are you a non-anglosaxon?

well,i can't find any reason that can spur China to open war against any country in the world,but apparently,US would like to. :sleepy:

Any war between the US and China will be initiated by the US. The US has military bases choking all of China's borders. The US is actively trying to divide China's territories, Taiwan and Tibet, while China does not interfere with any of the domestic concerns of the US. The US media and government regularly creates and devises false stories to inflamme anti-China hysteria amongst the ignorant American masses, examples include the Wen Ho Lee scandal, the Spy Plane incident (when the US was invading Chinese airspace), the current trade wars, Hollywood's long history of glamourizing the brutal Tibetan feudal theocracy and slave system headed by the Dalai Lama, etc. etc.

Chinese on the other hand are suspicious of the US government, but it is healthily balanced by efforts to learn English, enjoying American movies and learning about American society, large numbers of foreign exchange students going to the US and also a great desire to do business with the US. To summarize, most Chinese have a far more accurate understanding of the reality of American society and the United States than do Americans. Most images of China in the minds of most Americans remain extremely stereotypical, racist, simplistic, negative and unrealistic.

Jampacked SpecialExp -No I am white anglo-saxon, dont get me wrong theres nothing I'd like more then closer co-operation between our cousins downunder and in North America. I would even go as far to say I would support some sort of Federal Anglosphere.

Jampacked SpecialExp -No I am white anglo-saxon, dont get me wrong theres nothing I'd like more then closer co-operation between our cousins downunder and in North America. I would even go as far to say I would support some sort of Federal Anglosphere.


How does the fact that in twenty years, Latinos will comprise 30% of more of the US population figure in your plans for an anglosphere?

Anglo Saxons are actually a minority in US society today.

Well being realistic you cant count race as a factor anymore when refering to anglo-saxon nations, rather it is a misused term applied to all english speaking nations which share a common cultural identity. The USA is totally multi-cultural but they are all americans bound by one language. I myself am not 100% english which are a mongrel race anyway. Nevertheless people of all ethnic backrounds can still feel a fraternity within the english speaking world and it is possible to build upon this for even closer relationship between these nations. Im not an advocate of such an ideal but its a nice thought....

Just because all ethnic groups in the US are American, doesn't mean that they will feel a close fraternity with other English speaking countries. I am Chinese American, and I dislike Britain, and really don't give two cents about Canada or Australia. I feel much closer to China than I do to New Zealand. I think the same can be said about Mexican Americans, the vast majority of whom would never identify with an Australian over one of their own, a Mexican from Mexico. The same can be said about Blacks, who would probably sympathize more with Black Zimbabweans taking back their rightful land rather than with the oppressive English speaking Anglo Saxon farmers that are being kicked out.

The whole notion of an Anglo Saxon sphere is unrealistic in any terms, considering how small of a proportion of the general population of the US is actually Anglo Saxon. Personally, considering the vast amount of racial institutionalization that seems to be a predominant feature of all Anglo Saxon societies, I have more fear than hope for the foreign policies of a united front based on the Anglo Saxon heritage.

O well your one person of a nation of 390 million people, im certain there are people that have the same opinion or opposite. How come you dislike the UK out of interest?

The country which made China weaken at the start is the UK. They have a grudge against it, the opium war.

I doubt that China will be largest economy on nation but list isn't real in future. I thinks that economy in China will burst soon.

I doubt that China will be largest economy on nation but list isn't real in future. I thinks that economy in China will burst soon.

I just got back from China last week. There are many strong factors which are the cause of China's economic growth, and although certainly there are areas where speculation has gone awry, eg. Shanghai property market, the factors underlying China's growth are very real and based on very grounded forces. The talk of China bubble bursting is very premature and ill informed. China is simply catching up to its vast potential finally. I think China has a lot more room to grow and will continue to grow for the forseeable future.

O that. I supposed it seemed like a good idea at the time.

O well your one person of a nation of 390 million people, im certain there are people that have the same opinion or opposite. How come you dislike the UK out of interest?

The UK is an arrogant imperialistic nation. It is the cause of manyconflicts and misery that continues to plague the world today, ex. Palestinian-Israeli conflict, Pakistan-India split, the division of the Arab world, etc.

The UK likes to view itself as an honorable nation draped in the flags of freedom and justice, but have behaved quite the opposite all throughout its history. To protect its "right" to drug millions of Chinese, it began the Opium War and seized Chinese territory while robbing Chinese coffers of its wealth with the indemnities. The colonial history of the UK is a constant episode of manipulation, deception and racism that has divided peoples and have led to intractable conflicts that have not even been resolved up to this day. When the British left HK, they tried their best to stir up trouble before China re-asserted its rule. Despite all talk of democracy, Hong Kong never saw one day of democracy throughout its 150 years of British rule, every British governor was appointed directly from London and every single one of them was an old rotting White fart who was worlds away from his HK Chinese subjects. Again, British hypocrisy is never ending. Today, it is America's junior imperialist member, occupying the nation of Iraq against their will and inflicting more humiliation against the Arabs like the Sykes Picot agreement of 1917 and the creation of Israel in colonial Palestine was not enough.

Yeah, UK is not my favorite country.

Yea I mean thats all true of course but who is worse out of the US and UK?

Historically, the Uk has been worse and more obviously hypocritical than the US. At certain times, the US has actually been guided by greater moral purposes, though, admittedly those times are rare. Unfortunately, it seems like the US has begun to gone down the road of the UK, especially with the Bush administration in control.

lol,ignorant boy,have you studied any economic knowledge?

GDP will coincide with PPP for developping countries in a long term[maybe 20-30 years],so not necessary for us to look at the exchange rate,don't you know RMB is "a little" underestimed? :sleepy:

yes but you are saying that Market exchange rate is just useless.. and it's just number busines.. but it's not.. Actually if currency is high, the market exhchange rate of GDP is also high.. but.. you have to understand that "rich nations also have high currency rate" which hell rich countries have low currency?? can you name of it?? and which "poor" countries have high currency rate.. think about it

GDP will coincide with PPP for developping countries in a long term[maybe 20-30 years],so not necessary for us to look at the exchange rate <--- this statement shows that China cannot be a developed nation after 30 years.. until they focus on Market exhchange rate for their economic power..

2002GDP:1.24trillion-----Population:1.284billion-----GDP per capita:966
2002 Nominal growth rate:14%
2003GDP:1.41trillion-----Population:1.292billion-----GDP per capita:1091
2003Nominal growth rate:15%
2004GDP:1.65trillion-----Population:1.299billion-----GDP per capita:1270
2004Nominal growth rate:17%

Conjecture:[2005-2010]Nominal growth rate:15%
2005GDP:1.90trillion-----Population:1.306billion-----GDP per capita:1455
2006GDP:2.19trillion-----Population:1.313billion-----GDP per capita:1668
2007GDP:2.52trillion-----Population:1.320billion-----GDP per capita:1909
2008GDP:2.90trillion-----Population:1.327billion-----GDP per capita:2185
2009GDP:3.34trillion-----Population:1.334billion-----GDP per capita:2504
2010GDP:3.84trillion-----Population:1.341billion-----GDP per capita:2864
[2010-2020]Nominal growth rate:13%
2011GDP:4.34trillion-----Population:1.348billion-----GDP per capita:3220
2012GDP:4.90trillion-----Population:1.355billion-----GDP per capita:3616
2013GDP:5.54trillion-----Population:1.362billion-----GDP per capita:4068
2014GDP:6.26trillion-----Population:1.369billion-----GDP per capita:4573
2015GDP:7.07trillion-----Population:1.376billion-----GDP per capita:5138
2016GDP:7.99trillion-----Population:1.383billion-----GDP per capita:5777
2017GDP:9.03trillion-----Population:1.390billion-----GDP per capita:6496
2018GDP:10.20trillion-----Population:1.397billion-----GDP per capita:7301
2019GDP:11.53trillion-----Population:1.404billion-----GDP per capita:8212
2020GDP:13.03trillion-----Population:1.411billion-----GDP per capita:9235
[2021-2025]Nominal growth rate:11%
2021GDP:14.46trillion-----Population:1.416billion-----GDP per capita:10212
2022GDP:16.05trillion-----Population:1.421billion-----GDP per capita:11295
2023GDP:17.81trillion-----Population:1.426billion-----GDP per capita:12489
2024GDP:19.77trillion-----Population:1.431billion-----GDP per capita:13816
2025GDP:21.95trillion-----Population:1.436billion-----GDP per capita:15279
[2025-2030]Nominal growth rate:9%
2026GDP:23.93trillion-----Population:1.440billion-----GDP per capita:16618
2027GDP:26.08trillion-----Population:1.444billion-----GDP per capita:18061
2028GDP:28.43trillion-----Population:1.448billion-----GDP per capita:19634
2029GDP:30.99trillion-----Population:1.452billion-----GDP per capita:21343
2030GDP:33.78trillion-----Population:1.456billion-----GDP per capita:23201

These things are unreliable, inaccurate and nothing but mere prophecies/fortune cookies of the future and are therefore should be ignored.

yes but you are saying that Market exchange rate is just useless.. and it's just number busines.. but it's not.. Actually if currency is high, the market exhchange rate of GDP is also high.. but.. you have to understand that "rich nations also have high currency rate" which hell rich countries have low currency?? can you name of it?? and which "poor" countries have high currency rate.. think about it

GDP will coincide with PPP for developping countries in a long term[maybe 20-30 years],so not necessary for us to look at the exchange rate <--- this statement shows that China cannot be a developed nation after 30 years.. until they focus on Market exhchange rate for their economic power..

it's true that rich countries have high currency exchange rate,that's why US and EU always try to force china to increase exchange rate,they think the low level of RMB is unfair for them. :)

those weak and small nations really don't want to see china becomes richer...

they couldn't even match the past to china for just one day, they're too weak and poor, have nothing in the past...

they just stand a little richer for tens of years, when they face to china, they have inferiority complex, what can they do when china becomes richer and richer?

god bless those weak and small nations...

yes,look at waht the USA doing.
instigating taiwan to buy weaponsfrom USA,and prevent the european Countries selling weapons to China.
I hate USA.
i agree with you

China is alright but I hate UK. :runaway:

it's true that rich countries have high currency exchange rate,that's why US and EU always try to force china to increase exchange rate,they think the low level of RMB is unfair for them. :)

I wonder why China can't still revalue their currency, can't shift to the floating exchange rate system and keep the USD pegged system. I think because products made in China won't sell if they're not cheap.

If 3000 usd in USA=3000 yuan in China

I wonder why China can't still revalue their currency, can't shift to the floating exchange rate system and keep the USD pegged system. I think because products made in China won't sell if they're not cheap.


actually they will be cheaper..because all the imported materials will be cheaper if Chinese currency is strong..oil..steel..etc...

http://photo.sohu.com/20050119/Img224011331.jpg

China is alright but I hate UK. :runaway:



it should be the UK...

As an American (of El Salvadorean born parents) I would rather have U.S. businesses invest in Latin American countries so that they won't have to come here illegally than in China. But that's just my opinion and I do see China continuing on with its' rapid growth. oh and I love the U.K., Australia, and Canada (they're our siblings and mom lol)

surpassing United States in 2015[just in ten years],and 8 years after that China will be a developed country.

Year PPP PPP per capita Population
2004 $7.75 trillion $5962 1.3 billion
2005 $8.37 trillion
2006 $9.04 trillion
2007 $9.76 trillion
2008 $10.54 trillion
2009 $11.38 trillion
2010 $12.30 trillion $9111 1.35 billion
2011 $13.16 trillion
2012 $14.08 trillion
2013 $15.07 trillion
2014 $16.12 trillion
2015 $17.25 trillion $12591 1.38 billion
2016 $18.46 trillion
2017 $19.45 trillion
2018 $21.13 trillion
2019 $22.61 trillion
2020 $24.19 trillion $17279 1.40 billion
2021 $25.89 trillion
2022 $27.70 trillion
2023 $29.64 trillion $21171 1.40 billion
2024 $31.71 trillion
2025 $33.93 trillion
2026 $35.97 trillion
2027 $38.13 trillion
2028 $40.42 trillion $29079 1.39 billion
2029 $42.84 trillion
2030 $45.41 trillion $32669 1.39 billion

2005-2010,the growth rate will be 8%
2011-2025,it will be 7%,after that we suppose it 6%.

too optimistic

i love china and all there skyscrapers,but as they say whatever goes up must come down so at one point china is going to slow down.

i love china and all there skyscrapers,but as they say whatever goes up must come down so at one point china is going to slow down.

Exactly, i give it 10 years to continue booming, no more.

Exactly, i give it 10 years to continue booming, no more.
surpassing United States in 2015[just in ten years],and 8 years after that China will be a developed country.

Exactly, i give it 10 years to continue booming, no more.


aren't you the economist.....

:stupid: :|

smell the RED FEAR, peeps.

china will one day become the largest economic powerhouse on the planet, but it will take many years.

as for latin america, it can only dream of capturing a fraction of FDI that china has accumulated over the years. it will be difficult for any region, let alone country, to take over china's role as manufacturer/producer of the world.

Any war between the US and China will be initiated by the US. The US has military bases choking all of China's borders. The US is actively trying to divide China's territories, Taiwan and Tibet, while China does not interfere with any of the domestic concerns of the US. The US media and government regularly creates and devises false stories to inflamme anti-China hysteria amongst the ignorant American masses, examples include the Wen Ho Lee scandal, the Spy Plane incident (when the US was invading Chinese airspace), the current trade wars, Hollywood's long history of glamourizing the brutal Tibetan feudal theocracy and slave system headed by the Dalai Lama, etc. etc.

Chinese on the other hand are suspicious of the US government, but it is healthily balanced by efforts to learn English, enjoying American movies and learning about American society, large numbers of foreign exchange students going to the US and also a great desire to do business with the US. To summarize, most Chinese have a far more accurate understanding of the reality of American society and the United States than do Americans. Most images of China in the minds of most Americans remain extremely stereotypical, racist, simplistic, negative and unrealistic.

:yes:

americans are so fucking ignorant of foreign matters - esp. such a large and mysterious power like china - it's painful to call myself an american sometimes.

but i think you are slightly exaggerating the role of the US here in fostering anti-china hysteria. this isn't the cold war.

while the US certainly has traces of anti-china agenda in its foreign policy, it is quite an obvious fact that it will not start a war with China. in fact, NO COUNTRY on earth would dare begin a war with China. why start something that will produce no victories, only mutual losers, in the end? China isnt iraq. nor is it north korea. China's a nuclear power, with the world's largest military manpower and is already an economic superpower of rapidly growing proportions. any country that wishes to severe diplomatic (ie ECONOMIC) relations with China and endanger global security is asking for a quick demise, period.

re: taiwan/tibet - there won't be any world wars fought over these two little 'territories'. again: simply not worth it. the US rhetoric may appear to indicate this but as we all know the american government has a propensity for bullshitting, as with most governments of the world, incl. the CCP.

The UK is an arrogant imperialistic nation. It is the cause of manyconflicts and misery that continues to plague the world today, ex. Palestinian-Israeli conflict, Pakistan-India split, the division of the Arab world, etc.

The UK likes to view itself as an honorable nation draped in the flags of freedom and justice, but have behaved quite the opposite all throughout its history. To protect its "right" to drug millions of Chinese, it began the Opium War and seized Chinese territory while robbing Chinese coffers of its wealth with the indemnities. The colonial history of the UK is a constant episode of manipulation, deception and racism that has divided peoples and have led to intractable conflicts that have not even been resolved up to this day. When the British left HK, they tried their best to stir up trouble before China re-asserted its rule. Despite all talk of democracy, Hong Kong never saw one day of democracy throughout its 150 years of British rule, every British governor was appointed directly from London and every single one of them was an old rotting White fart who was worlds away from his HK Chinese subjects. Again, British hypocrisy is never ending. Today, it is America's junior imperialist member, occupying the nation of Iraq against their will and inflicting more humiliation against the Arabs like the Sykes Picot agreement of 1917 and the creation of Israel in colonial Palestine was not enough.

Yeah, UK is not my favorite country.


:applause:

bravo bravo.

the UK has hypocrisy slapped over its forehead.

and hey, let's not forget africa. perhaps the greatest shame of western imperialism.

Imagine how many supertall skyscrapers will be built in China by 2010, 2020 and 2030 if those forecasts are right...
http://www.macdesktops.com/Previews/BC01HomerPreview240.jpg

To become the worlds foremost power you must be as ruthless and as uncompassionate as the British were and still are. The Americans are the British incarnate except they are even more ruthless because capatlism is so entrenched within their culture.

I think China had better not open war against the US. Because the US, the UK, Australia and Canada excluding Quebec are Anglosaxon countries which shared the same blood.
Well then, 'rahowa', brother.

:|

Listening to conversation among the Chinese, as I thought their values don't suit American. China's antisecession law is just a good example not to suit American values. The EU which used to be positive toward removal of the embargo on weapons had bad feeling toward China's law and didn't remove it after all.

:yes:

americans are so fucking ignorant of foreign matters - esp. such a large and mysterious power like china - it's painful to call myself an american sometimes.

but i think you are slightly exaggerating the role of the US here in fostering anti-china hysteria. this isn't the cold war.

while the US certainly has traces of anti-china agenda in its foreign policy, it is quite an obvious fact that it will not start a war with China. in fact, NO COUNTRY on earth would dare begin a war with China. why start something that will produce no victories, only mutual losers, in the end? China isnt iraq. nor is it north korea. China's a nuclear power, with the world's largest military manpower and is already an economic superpower of rapidly growing proportions. any country that wishes to severe diplomatic (ie ECONOMIC) relations with China and endanger global security is asking for a quick demise, period.

re: taiwan/tibet - there won't be any world wars fought over these two little 'territories'. again: simply not worth it. the US rhetoric may appear to indicate this but as we all know the american government has a propensity for bullshitting, as with most governments of the world, incl. the CCP.


I was just saying that if a war started out between the US and China, it would likely have been instigated by the US. However, as for the probability of such a war, I think it is extremely low. Neither the US nor China wants to get into war with each other. In fact, it would be disastrous for both countries. However, the fact remains that it is the US who is in China's backyard and interfering with Chinese affairs rather than the other way around.

Hopefully, the US will learn to adjust to a rising China and instead of antagonism, both countries can learn to gain benefits from their growing economic relationship while maintaining mutual respect.

To become the worlds foremost power you must be as ruthless and as uncompassionate as the British were and still are. The Americans are the British incarnate except they are even more ruthless because capatlism is so entrenched within their culture.Someone once told me that the reason why the sun never sets on the British empire is because GOD never trusted to turn his back toward the English. :cheers:

But in some ways the Americans are more devious. The British attempted to control the world by controlling the seas. America on the other hand manipulates the financial markets. We fund the IMF so they can give loans to 3rd world nations knowing they can never repay except with a *damage clause* where they must forfeit their natural resources. Another difference is that the British fought wars for tea but Americans fight for oil. :)

The UK is an arrogant imperialistic nation. It is the cause of manyconflicts and misery that continues to plague the world today, ex. Palestinian-Israeli conflict, Pakistan-India split, the division of the Arab world, etc.

The UK likes to view itself as an honorable nation draped in the flags of freedom and justice, but have behaved quite the opposite all throughout its history. To protect its "right" to drug millions of Chinese, it began the Opium War and seized Chinese territory while robbing Chinese coffers of its wealth with the indemnities. The colonial history of the UK is a constant episode of manipulation, deception and racism that has divided peoples and have led to intractable conflicts that have not even been resolved up to this day. When the British left HK, they tried their best to stir up trouble before China re-asserted its rule. Despite all talk of democracy, Hong Kong never saw one day of democracy throughout its 150 years of British rule, every British governor was appointed directly from London and every single one of them was an old rotting White fart who was worlds away from his HK Chinese subjects. Again, British hypocrisy is never ending. Today, it is America's junior imperialist member, occupying the nation of Iraq against their will and inflicting more humiliation against the Arabs like the Sykes Picot agreement of 1917 and the creation of Israel in colonial Palestine was not enough.

Yeah, UK is not my favorite country.:laugh:

I was just saying that if a war started out between the US and China, it would likely have been instigated by the US. However, as for the probability of such a war, I think it is extremely low. Neither the US nor China wants to get into war with each other. In fact, it would be disastrous for both countries. However, the fact remains that it is the US who is in China's backyard and interfering with Chinese affairs rather than the other way around.

Hopefully, the US will learn to adjust to a rising China and instead of antagonism, both countries can learn to gain benefits from their growing economic relationship while maintaining mutual respect.

If the US and China opened war, no doubt the US would be a winner, but allies with the US in Asia might be damaged. No doubt the US would attack from Okinawa of Japan. It would be all for China to attack Japan, Guam or S.Korea.

If the US and China opened war, no doubt the US would be a winner, but allies with the US in Asia might be damaged. No doubt the US would attack from Okinawa of Japan. It would be all for China to attack Japan, Guam or S.Korea.

China can send long-distant nuclear missile from submarine which can be anywhere of Pacific without being found by US army. It's what US is afraid of the most. NMD will be trash then. Imagin that China can ruin LA, SF, Seattle even NYC, Chicago at any time.

We may think in another way, do you want to defeat someone for some not-that-important reasons in the cost of losing your two arms or just keep peace?

China doesn't want war, but China is not Iraq/Korea/Vietam or any country of the world either. To be enemy of a country with 1.3 billion clannish people and an at least 4000 years long history is dangerous and painful.

China can send long-distant nuclear missile from submarine which can be anywhere of Pacific without being found by US army. It's what US is afraid of the most. NMD will be trash then.

We may think in another way, do you want to defeat someone for some not-that-important reasons in the cost of losing your two arms or just keep peace?

China doesn't want war, but China is not Iraq/Korea/Vietam or any country of the world either. To be enemy of a country with 1.3 billion clannish people and an at least 4000 years long history is dangerous and painful.

As you know the US has the largest territorial sea area in the world. If your country's submarines invaded the US territorial sea area, the US would have no choice but to attack them. Well as for the NMD, I believe the Pac3 could shoot down 100% of nuclear missiles before China makes war.

As you know the US has the largest territorial sea area in the world. If your country's submarines invaded the US territorial sea area, the US would have no choice but to attack them. Well as for the NMD, I believe the Pac3 could shoot down 100% of nuclear missiles before China makes war.

Just some months ago, one Chinese nuclear submarine bared out of the water in Pacific without being found how it reached there by Japan & US. It's really shocking to US. It means that Chinese nuclear submarines may appear suddenly somewhere without being found and send nuclear missle to US. NMD can never settle such problem.

Just some months ago, one Chinese nuclear submarine bare out of the water in Pacific without being found how it reach there by Japan & US. It's really shocking to US. It means that Chinese nuclear submarines may appear suddenly somewhere without being found and send nuclear missle to US. NMD can never settle such problem.

Any Chinese submarine leaks out to the US.

As you know the US has the largest territorial sea area in the world. If your country's submarines invaded the US territorial sea area, the US would have no choice but to attack them. Well as for the NMD, I believe the Pac3 could shoot down 100% of nuclear missiles before China makes war.

that will be a real version of "STAR WAR",so EXCITING,China and US will attack and destroy the satelites with each other.

NMD is USELESS. :)

that will be a real version of "STAR WAR",so EXCITING,China and US will attack and destroy the satelites with each other.

NMD is USELESS. :)

And only the US mainland would be unhurt. Well but how will the US rule over the Chinese land? That's the biggest problem.

And only the US mainland would be unhurt. Well but how will the US rule over the Chinese land? That's the biggest problem.

US would fade away from this planet,how to rule over china? :lol:

just because u have a large economy, such as the US at 11 trillion or china at 7 trillion. Doesnt mean your rich. The US is both rich a large. China is large and poor.


by the way, the growth china is experiencing now is a major major major bubble, unstable and unsustainable.I think that soon there will be a massive recession.

Now here´s the real question. Im an american, but i am also a realist. Does anyone really think the US will let China surpass it. I mean honestly, does anyone really think that the US will not do everything in its power to stop china.

by the way anyone who even thinks that the US would lose a war with china is wut we in Miami and im sure in the rest of the country call dumbasses. THe fact is the US would not enter into a war with china alone. If war does break out with china it will be US, UK, Japan (at least) i would say most of western europe but i cant say i really trust them. The north korea would invade south korea because they would see their only communist ally in trouble, south korea would then enter the war. and it will drag out for years, WWIII. ANyways the first thing the us american would do is wut we did for WWII. WE dont have a numerial advatange but we have a technological one. Especially in our air and naval forces. WE would rapidly increas the production of f-22s f-117s b-2s and f-35´s all stealth planes.our navy cant be beat. If it were jsut us and china, i would say it would be a long war but i dunno who would win. although if u relaly thinkg about it we are really ahead with our airforce and navy, so i would guess us. but with UK and japan by our side. honestly.

just because u have a large economy, such as the US at 11 trillion or china at 7 trillion. Doesnt mean your rich. The US is both rich a large. China is large and poor.


by the way, the growth china is experiencing now is a major major major bubble, unstable and unsustainable.I think that soon there will be a massive recession.

Now here´s the real question. Im an american, but i am also a realist. Does anyone really think the US will let China surpass it. I mean honestly, does anyone really think that the US will not do everything in its power to stop china.

i was saying China may become a developed country by 2023,but not now.

i'm sure that US will restrict china's development and it's doing actually,but do US dare do sth very ruthless?no,i don't think so,because China is not Japan.

do or don't , you just can't stop it, like the UK didn't stop the US.you can't...

peaceful? ok, we work together, make more money...

war? ok, we give you the nucler winter...

i don't think S.korea will open war against northern side,neither would N.korea,they might open war together against Japan! :hahaha:

i doubt Japan is willing to join in,China will make Japan disappeared in several hours,you know.

i don't think S.korea will open war against north side,neither would N.korea,they might open war together against Japan! :hahaha:

i doubt Japan is willing to join in,China will make Japan disappeared in several hours,you know.

That's great. The US wishes Asians would kill and eat each other.

Just because all ethnic groups in the US are American, doesn't mean that they will feel a close fraternity with other English speaking countries. I am Chinese American, and I dislike Britain, and really don't give two cents about Canada or Australia. I feel much closer to China than I do to New Zealand. I think the same can be said about Mexican Americans, the vast majority of whom would never identify with an Australian over one of their own, a Mexican from Mexico. The same can be said about Blacks, who would probably sympathize more with Black Zimbabweans taking back their rightful land rather than with the oppressive English speaking Anglo Saxon farmers that are being kicked out.

The whole notion of an Anglo Saxon sphere is unrealistic in any terms, considering how small of a proportion of the general population of the US is actually Anglo Saxon. Personally, considering the vast amount of racial institutionalization that seems to be a predominant feature of all Anglo Saxon societies, I have more fear than hope for the foreign policies of a united front based on the Anglo Saxon heritage.

Are you saying that Black, Asian and Hispanic soldiers in the army feel the same way? I seriously doubt that. A black soldier is more loyal to the United States and its allies over Zimbabweans.

By the third generation, any ethnic minority in the US will indentify with being American overall. Americans are in general insular, but it doesn't mean these people won't notice shared common characteristics and beliefs if they travel to these other countries.

In my opinion, I can't think of too many nations that are welcoming of other ethnic groups than the Anglo saxon nations like Canada, US, Britain, Australia. so on.

That's great. The US wishes Asians would kill and eat each other.

East Asia should be united as one, just like EU. But this will only happen when China is far stronger than Japan and leads the Union.

East Asia should be united as one, just like EU. But this will only happen when China is far stronger than Japan and leads the Union.

i don't wanna US's bunny take part in. :)

You're so embarassing.

The EU is having issues right now because France is diverting its rule over other nations. Asian nations would never fund the infrastructure of poorer nations with no strings attached like Europe.

Does anyone really think the US will let China surpass it. I mean honestly, does anyone really think that the US will not do everything in its power to stop china.

That may not be enough. Within 10 years the U.S. is going to realize they're not the only world superpower. If China overtakes us as numero uno in the economic world, there's not a thing we can do about it.

The U.S. is weaker right now because its moving backwards. We're less interested with fixing foreign relations and more interested in banning gay marriage.

And the U.S. would NEVER go to war with China. Because China makes almost EVERYTHING we use here, it would be like sending the U.S. into the Dark Ages. :) :) :)

You're so embarassing.

The EU is having issues right now because France is diverting its rule over other nations. Asian nations would never fund the infrastructure of poorer nations with no strings attached like Europe.

You are really embarassing. :sleepy:

the principle issue in EU is the gap or different belives and pursues between the political flowers and the public.

Just east asia or CJk...
enough...
China, Korea,Japan...
1.5B pop
13.5t(ppp) 2005...

no one can beat those three nations together...

That may not be enough. Within 10 years the U.S. is going to realize they're not the only world superpower. If China overtakes us as numero uno in the economic world, there's not a thing we can do about it.

The U.S. is weaker right now because its moving backwards. We're less interested with fixing foreign relations and more interested in banning gay marriage.

And the U.S. would NEVER go to war with China. Because China makes almost EVERYTHING we use here, it would be like sending the U.S. into the Dark Ages. :) :) :)




:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: mate...

I think I made a friend! :) :) :)

I think I made a friend! :) :) :)








yes, my friend...

:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

As a U.S. citizen right now and about to graduate from college, I'm looking for a job in East Asia (particularly HK) right now. After visiting China for the first time last summer I realized just how incredible it really is.

I think a lot of the "hate China" viewpoints of many Americans stems from Tiananmen Square in '89. True it was 16 years ago, but it became a great nugget of pro-democracy propaganda for the U.S. Many Americans feel it's their God-given right to be ignorant about other countries. I don't mind this, as long as they're never allowed to travel abroad! :rofl:

When I went to mainland China last summer to teach English to kids, a lot of people here looked at me and thought I was nuts. But was I thrown in a red Chinese prison and beaten to death? No. Did a tank try to run me over? No! In my humble opinion, I was treated like royalty during my stay, and I now have the utmost respect for the citizens of that great country.

Because unlike most Americans, I choose to form my opinions based on my own experiences, not from a corrupt political and educational system.

I have great expectations for the future of China. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

As a U.S. citizen right now and about to graduate from college, I'm looking for a job in East Asia (particularly HK) right now. After visiting China for the first time last summer I realized just how incredible it really is.

I think a lot of the "hate China" viewpoints of many Americans stems from Tiananmen Square in '89. True it was 16 years ago, but it became a great nugget of pro-democracy propaganda for the U.S. Many Americans feel it's their God-given right to be ignorant about other countries. I don't mind this, as long as they're never allowed to travel abroad! :rofl:

When I went to mainland China last summer to teach English to kids, a lot of people here looked at me and thought I was nuts. But was I thrown in a red Chinese prison and beaten to death? No. Did a tank try to run me over? No! In my humble opinion, I was treated like royalty during my stay, and I now have the utmost respect for the citizens of that great country.

Because unlike most Americans, I choose to form my opinions based on my own experiences, not from a corrupt political and educational system.

I have great expectations for the future of China. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:




you're great, my friend...

:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Year PPP PPP per capita Population
2004 $7.75 trillion $5962 1.3 billion
2005 $8.37 trillion
2006 $9.04 trillion
2007 $9.76 trillion
2008 $10.54 trillion
2009 $11.38 trillion
2010 $12.30 trillion $9111 1.35 billion
2011 $13.16 trillion
2012 $14.08 trillion
2013 $15.07 trillion
2014 $16.12 trillion
2015 $17.25 trillion $12591 1.38 billion
2016 $18.46 trillion
2017 $19.45 trillion
2018 $21.13 trillion
2019 $22.61 trillion
2020 $24.19 trillion $17279 1.40 billion
2021 $25.89 trillion
2022 $27.70 trillion
2023 $29.64 trillion $21171 1.40 billion
2024 $31.71 trillion
2025 $33.93 trillion
2026 $35.97 trillion
2027 $38.13 trillion
2028 $40.42 trillion $29079 1.39 billion
2029 $42.84 trillion
2030 $45.41 trillion $32669 1.39 billion

2005-2010,the growth rate will be 8%
2011-2025,it will be 7%,after that we suppose it 6%.


thats....insane!!

oh!really?
why, like or don't like it..

that would be the future...

i´m by no means anti china. Im actually studying chinese, i love the culture. But im a realist. The United states has more power over other countries´economies than britain did back in the day. When the Us ecnomy sneezes the world economy gets a flu. The Us will no be willing to give up that power. If the US is defeated the other western rich countries will be left alone agaisnt a large, dictatorship. It is not inthere best interest. Sooner or later our allies would join us. The enemy of your enemy is your friend.

You are really embarassing. :sleepy:



No, you are.

Can't control your biases on an international forum.

The Us will not be willing to give up that [economic] power.

I tend to think we're already giving up economic power by exporting jobs to cheaper third-world labor, and by allowing these huge lopsided trade deficits with East Asia.

I don't know who's worse... big companies exporting U.S. jobs, or the U.S. government allowing such practices. :(

"democratic" govt controled by multinationals that has a propensity for invading the rest of the world,that's USA!

No, you are.

Can't control your biases on an international forum.

just telling the truth i know. :)

I tend to think we're already giving up economic power by exporting jobs to cheaper third-world labor, and by allowing these huge lopsided trade deficits with East Asia.

I don't know who's worse... big companies exporting U.S. jobs, or the U.S. government allowing such practices. :(


im not trying to be mean here, but ur wrong on this subject, the outsorcing of manufaturing jobs is one of the greatest things to happen to rich countries in a while. manufacturing jobs are low paying. and because our economy is switching from an manufacturing/info economy to a high tech information service economy the lower paying jobs leave. The same thing happened with the industrial revolution with agriculture, ppl left the bad jobs and took the better ones, and then in the 1950´s our service sector grew and took over the importance of the manufacturing jobs, the process of turning our economy into a modern info economy is in its last stages and the lower paying jobs are leaving. Its a bad thing to see ppllosing jobs, but we should be concentrating on training them for higherpaying service jobs. I would change my mind on many things, and i hve, but not this one, outsourcing, is making our economy stronger, i know it doesnt seem like it now, but it is.

. The north korea would invade south korea because they would see their only communist ally in trouble, south korea would then enter the war. and it will drag out for years, WWIII.


I am sure that you don't even know what you are talking about right now about two koreas

Haven't you seen and heard recent News about two Koreas?

Here is "Down to earth explanation" of the relationship between two koreas.
Isn't it korea's circumstances are quite different from yours?

http://www.vop.co.kr/news/upload2/25261kim.jpg

http://www.vop.co.kr/news/upload2/25261-100012.jpg

I agree with you lou reed.

china's new revolution from AMERICAN magazine "TIME",it's interesting and fun to read and see the reports and photos. :) :) :)
http://i.timeinc.net/time/covers/20050627/map/images/map.jpg
Moving Up
Passengers ride an escalator at a subway station near Tiananmen square in Beijing
http://i.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/chinanewreality/images/02.jpg
The restaurant at the top of the Pudong Oriental Pearl TV Tower offers customers a view of Shanghai from and turns one revolution per hour
http://i.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/chinanewreality/images/03.jpg
House Party
A family attends a party in Soho Village, a new modern residential and commercial district in Beijing
http://i.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/chinanewreality/images/04.jpg
Bridal Path
An attendant sits in a wedding shop in Beijing
http://i.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/chinanewreality/images/05.jpg
Shopping
Clerks wait on people in the Soho Village commercial building in Beijing
http://i.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/chinanewreality/images/06.jpg

East Asia should be united as one, just like EU. But this will only happen when China is far stronger than Japan and leads the Union.

Needless to say Japan doesn't hope for China who is far stronger than himself. The stronger China is, the more Japan would take precautions against China and strengthen alliance with the US. Still more the US too, wouldn't want to release Japan. Why does the US want to move their Army HQ to Japan? Most US arms are high-tech but they use some Japanese technologies.

Why does the US want to move their Army HQ to Japan?

The "wars" in Afghanistan and Iraq are over now, and all that's left are insurgent attacks. We need a "fresh" country to piss off, and since WWII was the last war we truly won... why not Japan?

Japan's an expensive country too, that way they can blow through their $500 Billion defense budget quicker. Glad to see my tax dollars hard at work... :bash: :bash: :bash:

I am sure that you don't even know what you are talking about right now about two koreas

Haven't you seen and heard recent News about two Koreas?

Here is "Down to earth explanation" of the relationship between two koreas.
Isn't it korea's circumstances are quite different from yours?

I seem to recall hitler shaking hands with the british prime minister Atlee, I seem to recall Saddam hussein shaking hands with donald rumsfeld, i seem to recall stalin sigining a secret treaty with hitler. If your so naive that u think a simple hand shake is truth in this world may god look after u. So my good sir, you are the one who doesn´t know what you´re talking about.


Also, i would like to point out that in that article showing china´s development, the income of a person in shangai, onwe of china´s wealthiest cities, is $2,010. Which is less than the income in the US´s poorest state.

I seem to recall hitler shaking hands with the british prime minister Atlee, I seem to recall Saddam hussein shaking hands with donald rumsfeld, i seem to recall stalin sigining a secret treaty with hitler. If your so naive that u think a simple hand shake is truth in this world may god look after u. So my good sir, you are the one who doesn´t know what you´re talking about.


Also, i would like to point out that in that article showing china´s development, the income of a person in shangai, onwe of china´s wealthiest cities, is $2,010. Which is less than the income in the US´s poorest state.

baby,if shanghai's GDP per capita is $2010,that would mean the population of shanghai were 44.57 million!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

furthermore,shanghai's GDP per capita is not the highest in china. :) :)

shanghai's ppp per capita is about $26500,that's why shanghai looks like a "first-world" city. :) :) surely it's not the highest in China. :)

Did you took into consideration that if the Chinese gov. decides to revalue the chinese currency that your ppp figures might suddenly look quite different?

Did you took into consideration that if the Chinese gov. decides to revalue the chinese currency that your ppp figures might suddenly look quite different?

chinese government revalues or not the RMB won't have any affect on PPP,it would just increase the GDP.

PPP is the REAL living standard or purchasing power,without any direct connection to exchange rate. :)

actually i really can't feel that shanghai or beijing or guangzhou is in the first world standard that their ppp is close to hong kong

actually i really can't feel that shanghai or beijing or guangzhou is in the first world standard that their ppp is close to hong kong

yea,you can go to shenzhen to go shopping.hong kong is a perfect city where we can earn a lot and buy cheaply :yes:

actually i really can't feel that shanghai or beijing or guangzhou is in the first world standard that their ppp is close to hong kong

hong kong's PPP per capita surpassed $30000 last year,i guess. :)

Beijing's PPP per capita was $17037 last year,and $22916 for Guangzhou.

how do you calculate these ppp data,they are really wrong

how do you calculate these ppp data,they are really wrong

which is your figure? :) i calculated it according to the population publicated by the local gov recently.

Just east asia or CJk...
enough...
China, Korea,Japan...
1.5B pop
13.5t(ppp) 2005...

no one can beat those three nations together...


Canada, Mexico, United States...

0.434B pop
14.5t(ppp) 2005...


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/29/North_America_satellite_orthographic.jpg

yea,you can go to shenzhen to go shopping.hong kong is a perfect city where we can earn a lot and buy cheaply :yes:
well, some shenzhenese fds proudly told me that the living standard in shenzhen is better than hong kong now, it really made me laugh
i really felt unpleasent when i was in shenzhen, everywhere is dirty,
one thing surprises me that is the pedestrian bridges in the main street (深南大道＆華強路）are made by some cheap steel, it looks like something in the construction site.....but god....its CBD....besides that everthing in shenzhen seems in low quality, it may look modern and well from far far away, but sucks when u r in close , if shenzhen is that damn rich with ppp of 30000 that close to hk, well, they should hv a cbd that can match the Central of hk

another interesting thing is that almost everything u can buy in EVERYWHER are fake.....even in the CBD....not only shenzhen but also other big cities in china, i remember when i was in guangzhou, those locals were proudly introduce the Bejing Road and 天河城....they said its the highest standard shopping area in the city......well.....it's even cheaper than a estate shopping mall in hk's suburb

it's true that many hkers go to shop in mainland, but those are low quality men that are paid in low salary in hk, well actually most of them are new immigrant from mainland
those hkers in middle-level were living in hk for long time are seldom to go to mainland for shopping, indeed if u have money in hk, u would rather spend in hk since ther services and quality are much much better

at last, maybe u hv to use $1000 to live in shenzhen but $3000 in hk, but tell u the quality in hk must be much much higer, hkers don't wear fake brands, and the quality of most things u eat and drink in hk are controlled by government strictly, the street infrastructure is also better than shenzhen by a mile even shenzhen is a city of only 20 years old, and don't need me to explain, hk is cleaner and safer

well, some shenzhenese fds proudly told me that the living standard in shenzhen is better than hong kong now, it really made me laugh
i really felt unpleasent when i was in shenzhen, everywhere is dirty,
one thing surprises me that is the pedestrian bridges in the main street (深南大道＆華強路）are made by some cheap steel, it looks like something in the construction site.....but god....its CBD....besides that everthing in shenzhen seems in low quality, it may look modern and well from far far away, but sucks when u r in close , if shenzhen is that damn rich with ppp of 30000 that close to hk, well, they should hv a cbd that can match the Central of hk

another interesting thing is that almost everything u can buy in EVERYWHER are fake.....even in the CBD....not only shenzhen but also other big cities in china, i remember when i was in guangzhou, those locals were proudly introduce the Bejing Road and 天河城....they said its the highest standard shopping area in the city......well.....it's even cheaper than a estate shopping mall in hk's suburb

it's true that many hkers go to shop in mainland, but those are low quality men that are paid in low salary in hk, well actually most of them are new immigrant from mainland
those hkers in middle-level were living in hk for long time are seldom to go to mainland for shopping, indeed if u have money in hk, u would rather spend in hk since ther services and quality are much much better

at last, maybe u hv to use $1000 to live in shenzhen but $3000 in hk, but tell u the quality in hk must be much much higer, hkers don't wear fake brands, and the quality of most things u eat and drink in hk are controlled by government strictly, the street infrastructure is also better than shenzhen by a mile even shenzhen is a city of only 20 years old, and don't need me to explain, hk is cleaner and safer

actually,shenzhen has a better high tech industry than HK.the service sector is worse,just because shen is HK's satelite city and the living standard is really much lower.non sense to compare the two,i think people from shanghai will find the same feeling if they compare shanghai with suzhou.

HK should take care of shanghai which is booming now.

actually,shenzhen has a better high tech industry than HK.the service sector is worse,just because shen is HK's satelite city and the living standard is really much lower.non sense to compare the two,HK should focus on shanghai which is booming now.
agree with u....shanghai is much more comparable
but if shenzhen hv the ppp of 30000.....i can't accept that....

Ok listen tiger, i got my figures from TIME, i dunno wut u did to get urs, but ur completley wrong, that estimate would put China on par with the five large european countries, italy spain france germany and UK, i higly doubt China is richer than they are, Note i said richer, not larger (economically).

Ok listen tiger, i got my figures from TIME, i dunno wut u did to get urs, but ur completley wrong, that estimate would put China on par with the five large european countries, italy spain france germany and UK, i higly doubt China is richer than they are, Note i said richer, not larger (economically).

how did you get this conclusion that China is richer than five large european countries? :sleepy:

Go NA!

I believe that Shanghai's GDP-MER per capita is $6,000 according to the figures i have looked at. Its makes sense to me if the PRP per capita is between 20,000 - 25,000. Of course the income is very unequalily distributed.

how did you get this conclusion that China is richer than five large european countries? :sleepy:

I said that it is wut ur estimates say, wut i am saying is that there is no way that china is richer than the fiver large european economies.

Canada, Mexico, United States...
0.434B pop
14.5t(ppp) 2005...

Agreed if us 3 nations united as one and formed the NA Union we'd be unstopable our economy would blast throught the roof. As for China theyre going to continue this trend and will have prosperous economy and most likely become the #1, but they will expierience more health problems with the growing pollution in the country will ruin the farm land they have and cause them to rely on foreign food like we do for oil. Also the cheap labor economy is only good for short term pretty soon people will wake up and see what they could they would ask for more fair wages, riots, and angry mobs would arise. There are many other things i could go on and on about but the point is that they will have a great economy for the next 10-15yrs then crash but not crash to like dead poor but the economy would cripple.

I said that it is wut ur estimates say, wut i am saying is that there is no way that china is richer than the fiver large european economies.

you are dreaming,China will surpass US in ten years. :)

actually, shenzhen's gdp per capita was US$16430 in 2003. So assuming it grew by %10 over the past few years which is a very conservative number, it is about $20000 this year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenzhen

you are dreaming,China will surpass US in ten years. :)

HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA.

Ignorance is bold isnt it.

actually, shenzhen's gdp per capita was US$16430 in 2003. So assuming it grew by %10 over the past few years which is a very conservative number, it is about $20000 this year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenzhen

all depend on which source of population you make use of.

HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA.

Ignorance is bold isnt it.

take a look at the 1st page,boy. :)

Agreed if us 3 nations united as one and formed the NA Union we'd be unstopable our economy would blast throught the roof. As for China theyre going to continue this trend and will have prosperous economy and most likely become the #1, but they will expierience more health problems with the growing pollution in the country will ruin the farm land they have and cause them to rely on foreign food like we do for oil. Also the cheap labor economy is only good for short term pretty soon people will wake up and see what they could they would ask for more fair wages, riots, and angry mobs would arise. There are many other things i could go on and on about but the point is that they will have a great economy for the next 10-15yrs then crash but not crash to like dead poor but the economy would cripple.

That's right at same time that NA still have enough oil in Canada and natural gas in Mexico plus the technology of the US in the development of hydrogen cells, solar and other sources to make us independent from the rest of the world.

NA will be more balanced since will have a third of the population of China. :)

The more China grows, the more China needs oil. And when China thinks they can fight against the US, they would make war in the middle east.

I seem to recall hitler shaking hands with the british prime minister Atlee, I seem to recall Saddam hussein shaking hands with donald rumsfeld, i seem to recall stalin sigining a secret treaty with hitler. If your so naive that u think a simple hand shake is truth in this world may god look after u. So my good sir, you are the one who doesn´t know what you´re talking about.


I already know that You are the one who can take a superficial view of things.
Can't you see beyond shanking hands of two people in pictures?

OK, it seems that you are extremely lacking the background knowledge to fiqure out what I am trying to say through those pictures .

Anyway, it is wise of you not to display your ignorance in such wise about two koreas . good luck! :)

you are dreaming,China will surpass US in ten years. :)

Don't be so aggressive and optimistic.

But isn't that assuming that the United States economy doesn't grow at all until that point?

China's economy has been growing at a massive pace - during the 1990's at more than 10% every year - and for years has been widely tipped to be the world's largest by 2050.

i think china is able to reach today's brazil's level in per-capita term "in ten years". I would be a very happy chinese if we can achieve that & hope the fortune can be distributed more evenly by then...

^really, if so i think you should move to brazil.
and please think about how many population between china and brazil

it's true that rich countries have high currency exchange rate,that's why US and EU always try to force china to increase exchange rate,they think the low level of RMB is unfair for them. :)

yes but I don't think it's necessary to increase the currency though. I think they are afraid because China's PPP is much higher than Market exchange rate.. so in 2030, China may surpass U.S.A in terms of PPP gdp.. but.. um.. I don't know..

the world is more focused on exhchange rate.. cuz the international money is now U.S dollar.... basically, If chinese earn 3000$ in U.S dollar.. it's more valuable in China than that.. so it's like.. maybe 30000$??

yes but I don't think it's necessary to increase the currency though. I think they are afraid because China's PPP is much higher than Market exchange rate.. so in 2030, China may surpass U.S.A in terms of PPP gdp.. but.. um.. I don't know..

the world is more focused on exhchange rate.. cuz the international money is now U.S dollar.... basically, If chinese earn 3000$ in U.S dollar.. it's more valuable in China than that.. so it's like.. maybe 30000$??

that's the problem.

for example,if $:RMB should be 4:1,when chinese gov. decides to revalue the RMB,it may increase to 3:1 due to speculation,that would very negatively affect chinese economy.

but it dosen't mean it's not necessary to revalue!!!

^really, if so i think you should move to brazil.
and please think about how many population between china and brazil
population? please read my post again :sleepy:

can you please tell me why i should move to Brazil? i don't get it?! :weirdo:
(or maybe by your logic, our president Hu Jingtao (http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/05/17/eyeonchina.hujintao.target/) should move to "Brazil" as well ...)

people.... whether china becomes fully developed by X number of years is frankly pointless to discuss. the fact is, China is the undisputed future superpower of the world. it is already an economic powerhouse that has direct influence on the global market, including the US market. anyone with half a brain knows this.

and to further emphasize the rise of China - check out the latest US press on China:

http://img.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/2005/1101050627_400.jpg

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1074115,00.html

face it, folks.... we are entering China's century.

The mere population and economic growth in China will undoubtfully make it a formidable world power. Now as far is China dominating the world, I doubt it. The entire world's economy and social apparatus is set up in a Western fashion. So if China really want to be the big dogs they must come up with their own system of world social and economic function, no F'n way that is going to happen without a war. If China simply follows the established Western model than it will simply be a powerful partner in the world's economic order. Think about it, if the West was really afraid of China's rise to power they, along with the Russians and Latin America would simply make China irrellevant and if necessary, wipe China right off the Map because the allegiances are set.

those weak and small nations really don't want to see china becomes richer...

they couldn't even match the past to china for just one day, they're too weak and poor, have nothing in the past...

they just stand a little richer for tens of years, when they face to china, they have inferiority complex, what can they do when china becomes richer and richer?

god bless those weak and small nations...

China's economy has been growing at a massive pace - during the 1990's at more than 10% every year - and for years has been widely tipped to be the world's largest by 2050.

You seem not to think China would revalue their currency in the near future. Their MER is about 10% of the US but PPP is already about 70% of the US. If they revalued their currency their MER would be close to their PPP. But will the US permit China to get the biggest economic power? It means Pax Anglo-Americana's end. I think the US would make something before that.

Stupid people still don´t take into account what the United States will do when their hegemony is threatend. It is OFFICIAL government policy not to allow any country to pass the US economically. OFFICIAL government policy!!! I´d like to see wut would happen to the chinese economy if they grow so much that the US (which has a 100 billion dollar trade deficit with china) stops importing because the Chinese economy is closing in on the American one.

Stupid people still don´t take into account what the United States will do when their hegemony is threatend. It is OFFICIAL government policy not to allow any country to pass the US economically. OFFICIAL government policy!!! I´d like to see wut would happen to the chinese economy if they grow so much that the US (which has a 100 billion dollar trade deficit with china) stops importing because the Chinese economy is closing in on the American one.

oyoyoyoyoy... :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:

Think about it, if the West was really afraid of China's rise to power they, along with the Russians and Latin America would simply make China irrellevant and if necessary, wipe China right off the Map because the allegiances are set.


what a load of bullshit.

first of all, who said that a country must reinvent the wheel in order to be a superpower? in this day and age, all that matters is money. you obviously know nothing about the basics of economics. japan is an economic superpower and it has fully adopted to western standards while still distinguishing itself as a technological power.

and if you think the west (latin america isn't the west, btw) wanted to "wipe China off the map", think again. that won't happen without a nuclear war, and China already has plenty of those to begin with. so while the west could technically decimate China, China can likewise obliterate much of NA or europe or russia. it's called murder-suicide.

:stupid:

Stupid people still don´t take into account what the United States will do when their hegemony is threatend. It is OFFICIAL government policy not to allow any country to pass the US economically. OFFICIAL government policy!!! I´d like to see wut would happen to the chinese economy if they grow so much that the US (which has a 100 billion dollar trade deficit with china) stops importing because the Chinese economy is closing in on the American one.

put down the crack pike, little one.

the US isn't that simple, and neither is China. read the TIME magazine article. seems like a lot of people here could use some education.

put down the crack pike, little one.

the US isn't that simple, and neither is China. read the TIME magazine article. seems like a lot of people here could use some education.


yea, like you. In fact the world is quite simple. Everyone wants whats best for themselves. It is not good for the US to lose its power or any country for that matter, perhaps if u want i can find a book for u to read in order to further improve, or i should say, start your education.

what a load of bullshit.

first of all, who said that a country must reinvent the wheel in order to be a superpower? in this day and age, all that matters is money. you obviously know nothing about the basics of economics. japan is an economic superpower and it has fully adopted to western standards while still distinguishing itself as a technological power.

and if you think the west (latin america isn't the west, btw) wanted to "wipe China off the map", think again. that won't happen without a nuclear war, and China already has plenty of those to begin with. so while the west could technically decimate China, China can likewise obliterate much of NA or europe or russia. it's called murder-suicide.

:stupid:

China makes money by "made in china" now, but the reason is because the US and the other industrially developed nations' companies just give you wages to place their plants in China or they permit Chinese companies to use their patents. If your government revalued your currency, they might withdraw from China and move their plants to more cheap nations. Or when the US feels your country dangerous, they would make all their companies withdraw from your country and your companies couldn't use the US and his allies' patents. As for the energy problem, the more your country grows the more you needs oil or natural gas. While the US has 0.3 billion people if your country became a developed country, you would need 4 times as much oil or gas as the US does. The US shot Iraq's oil and they try to shoot Iran's oil the next. Anyway all middle eastern countries would be their puppet governments, then how would China gotten oil if China made trouble with the US?

I don't think the US government would never 'make' companies withdraw from China. Corporations have far to much influence in government to allow that to happen.

yea, like you. In fact the world is quite simple. Everyone wants whats best for themselves. It is not good for the US to lose its power or any country for that matter, perhaps if u want i can find a book for u to read in order to further improve, or i should say, start your education.

sounds like you are simply one of those goons who fantasizes about a nuclear war between china and the US.

:stupid:

of course you would think the world is "simple".... i mean, your brain couldn't handle the complexity of the real world, now could it?

the fact is, the US can't afford to antagonize China, and vice versa.

China makes money by "made in china" now, but the reason is because the US and the other industrially developed nations' companies just give you wages to place their plants in China or they permit Chinese companies to use their patents. If your government revalued your currency, they might withdraw from China and move their plants to more cheap nations. Or when the US feels your country dangerous, they would make all their companies withdraw from your country and your companies couldn't use the US and his allies' patents. As for the energy problem, the more your country grows the more you needs oil or natural gas. While the US has 0.3 billion people if your country became a developed country, you would need 4 times as much oil or gas as the US does. The US shot Iraq's oil and they try to shoot Iran's oil the next. Anyway all middle eastern countries would be their puppet governments, then how would China gotten oil if China made trouble with the US?

my country? i'm an american native. :stupid: :|

what you and the masses of ignoramues fail to realize is the extent to which China's future and that of the US are linked. it isn't just making clothes, toys, microwaves, or shoes that binds the two countries together. China holds billions of dollars of US debt; its companies increasingly compete with US ones for vital resources like oil; its economy consumes more raw materials and products than any other nation in the world (and increasing at an alarming rate); and its geopolitical behavior will affect the outcome of issues of key importance to US policymakers, ie North Korea.

my country? i'm an american native. :stupid: :|

what you and the masses of ignoramues fail to realize is the extent to which China's future and that of the US are linked. it isn't just making clothes, toys, microwaves, or shoes that binds the two countries together. China holds billions of dollars of US debt; its companies increasingly compete with US ones for vital resources like oil; its economy consumes more raw materials and products than any other nation in the world (and increasing at an alarming rate); and its geopolitical behavior will affect the outcome of issues of key importance to US policymakers, ie North Korea.

Well you're a chinese american. China's USD holdings are pointless. The US government can borrow money in USD, print its paper money and pay money back in USD as long as it's a key currency. You don't bother the US government with its point at all.

my prediction (US - china - asia):

in 2010: US will lose its economic leverage over china if US can't successfully block current trend (by protectionism or oil stratergy). The reason? china's huge domestic market by 2010 (after Olympic & World Expo) . Trade war with china means huge lose of profit & market share in china. Chinese economy would be a lot less dependant on foreign market & export.

in 2015: US will lose its millitary leverage over China if US can't wage a regional war before that (by playing Japan or Taiwan card). Before 2015, US can fight with china and finally win in a regional war in EA region. After 2015, china is likely to at least bring a lose-lose to a war with US if they fight in EA. More importantly, china would have capability to paralyze/destroy US (the only millitary threat to china) not only theoretically but practically in 2015. That would be a huge difference psychologically for policy maker & fellow countrymen (in US, china, japan, korea, taiwan...). In another word, China is able to effectively protect herself & her core interest by then.

in 2020: US will lose its closest alliance & agent in asia -- Japan. By 2020, china's real term GDP would be similar to Japan's if thing goes right (GDP PPP would be a few times more), japan then have to embrace asia again & side with china in certain way, willingly or not. Containment policy against china by US & Japan will finally be discarded. Japan will do something like what S.K. is doing now...

after 2020, chinese economy slow down a little to restructure (india will catch up in terms of growth). Chinese gov. will have to face political reform seriously. with per-capita GDP of $3,000, china can push a painful reform without risking social stability & political turmoil as much as it may face today. Its own poeple will support it. By doing that, rest of the world would be more comfortable with a powerful but stable china as well.

(asia-wise) 2020 onwards, india's influence will rise drastically like today's china, while japan go down-wards (it may finally remilitarize, but imo it won't matter that much as most chinese/korea worried); 2 korea united; india-parkistan relation improved ... (with only taiwan issue remained, but less dangerous). South/East/S-E asia will be the center of the world. I think 2020 would be a magic year. If we can reach there peacefully, the whole world would be a lot better & safer after that.

even i don't believe in god, but let's pray...

so are you suggesting that we should nuke them before 2015 and India before 2025? :D lol

so are you suggesting that we should nuke them before 2015 and India before 2025? :D lol

actually, you should do that 50 years ago in Korean war, when US was the only nuclear power. no? how about vietnam war..... PLEASE! any better reply?!!

U PPL ARE REALLY OVER ESTIMATING CHINA. Its growth has been spectacular but its due for a large correction. dont take my word for it, lets just wait and see.

As for this so called sean storm. perhaps i would tak ur view of the "complexity" of the world more seriously if u had the "complexity" to vary ur smilies.

And lets just remember that China's growth is due largely to Nixon's policies of opening up China to capitalism.

And lets just remember that China's growth is due largely to Nixon's policies of opening up China to capitalism.

:|

Nixon? talk about giving a man too much credit.

you're absolutely wrong. china's economic miracles in the past twenty years have nothing to do with Nixon but everything to do with the late Deng Xiaoping, who initiated drastic economic reforms throughout the country by opening up its economy to foreign trade.

why are all of you so damn ignorant of china? maybe i shoudn't be surprised. :|

U PPL ARE REALLY OVER ESTIMATING CHINA. Its growth has been spectacular but its due for a large correction. dont take my word for it, lets just wait and see.

As for this so called sean storm. perhaps i would tak ur view of the "complexity" of the world more seriously if u had the "complexity" to vary ur smilies.

silly turd... trust me, nobody's taking your words.

i think i trust international sources and economic figures more than a clueless, sinophobic dweeb from the states.

:sleepy:

^ is that enough variation in emoticons for you, little one?

Well you're a chinese american. China's USD holdings are pointless. The US government can borrow money in USD, print its paper money and pay money back in USD as long as it's a key currency. You don't bother the US government with its point at all.

how the hell do you know i'm chinese american? you don't fucking know me. just because i support and applaud china's economic growth? :|

what's your point in even questioning my background in the first place?

get real, jackass. :stupid:

oh, and yes... the US can just print more US dollars whenever i wants more money. yeah, nice logic there. you clearly have no understanding of the concept of DEBT.

furthermore, you along with the hordes of other imbeciles in this country think you have China's fate wrapped around your bigoted little fingers when the reality is that you really don't know jack shit about the situation. what's really demonstrated here with all these 'apocalyptic' visions of china's future can be coined in two simple words: RED FEAR.

Stupid people still don´t take into account what the United States will do when their hegemony is threatend. It is OFFICIAL government policy not to allow any country to pass the US economically. OFFICIAL government policy!!! I´d like to see wut would happen to the chinese economy if they grow so much that the US (which has a 100 billion dollar trade deficit with china) stops importing because the Chinese economy is closing in on the American one.

And why doesn't the US just stop the importing now? This has been happening for years.

We all know it wouldn't be that simple, so do both governments. The American companies would lose their investments in China and the Chinese would lose their market in the US.

And lets just remember that China's growth is due largely to Nixon's policies of opening up China to capitalism.

China's economic boom didn't start off right after Nixon's visit to China in early 70s.

no no no and no.

it will take China another 50 years of growth at todays pace (good luck) to be considered an averagly developped country. Its the Chinese govt who says this.

silly turd... trust me, nobody's taking your words.

Where would they be taking them?

i think i trust international sources and economic figures more than a clueless, sinophobic dweeb from the states.

Im a chinese american you dumb shit, so i really couldnt be a sinophobe sould i, considering i go to China every other years to see my family. U really are a dumbass, just like ur theories about the chinese economy, ur assumpitions about me are way off!!!!! Thats right, feel stupid.
:sleepy:

^ is that enough variation in emoticons for you, little one?

Good job, ur progressing quite nicely.

And why doesn't the US just stop the importing now? This has been happening for years.

We all know it wouldn't be that simple, so do both governments. The American companies would lose their investments in China and the Chinese would lose their market in the US.

because theyre making money now, and china is still not that close to the US economically, but when they start closing in anxiety will set in.

how the hell do you know i'm chinese american? you don't fucking know me. just because i support and applaud china's economic growth? :|

what's your point in even questioning my background in the first place?

get real, jackass. :stupid:

oh, and yes... the US can just print more US dollars whenever i wants more money. yeah, nice logic there. you clearly have no understanding of the concept of DEBT.

furthermore, you along with the hordes of other imbeciles in this country think you have China's fate wrapped around your bigoted little fingers when the reality is that you really don't know jack shit about the situation. what's really demonstrated here with all these 'apocalyptic' visions of china's future can be coined in two simple words: RED FEAR.

What are you talking about? China, the home of your body has an asset for cheap products. Any country which wants to export products cheap to the US must buy USD to hold back a depreciation of the USD. China is its good example. Your homecountry needs to buy USD for having advantage in its country's exports. The point I want to say is that China buys USD not to help US debt, but help their exports to the US! see? The USD is a key currency because a lot of countries always buy USD, any country settles accounts in USD for trade, any country needs USD. So the US doesn't feel painful no matter how they borrow money. Their work is only to print key bills. That's the special right of the key currency country, see?
By the way why do you veil the fact you're a chinese american? As I think, is the life in the US uncomfortable for chinese americans? Or do you have inferiority complex toward history of chinese americans?

What are you talking about? China, the home of your body has an asset for cheap products. Any country which wants to export products cheap to the US must buy USD to hold back a depreciation of the USD. China is its good example. Your homecountry needs to buy USD for having advantage in its country's exports. The point I want to say is that China buys USD not to help US debt, but help their exports to the US! see? The USD is a key currency because a lot of countries always buy USD, any country settles accounts in USD for trade, any country needs USD. So the US doesn't feel painful no matter how they borrow money. Their work is only to print key bills. That's the special right of the key currency country, see?
By the way why do you veil the fact you're a chinese american? As I think, is the life in the US uncomfortable for chinese americans? Or do you have inferiority complex toward history of chinese americans?

stupid bastard.are you seeing the USD is deprecing a lot?do US dare continue it? :hahaha: China is US's creditor,you'd better heed what chinese say and do. :cheers:

^They only buy US treasury notes to keep their own currency down. It's not like they want to the US a favor.

China will never be rich relative to the world until it permits its currency to float. Perhaps the Chinese government and large Chinese companies can become financially secure by putting their investments in dollars, Euros, or yen. However, as long as the yuan is artificially tied to the dollar (and thus practically worthless in real terms), the average Chinese citizen will not be able to purchase foreign goods (non-pirated, that is) or travel abroad. China's economy is currently being artificially inflated by underpaying the Chinese worker, resulting in cheap prices for Chinese exports and profits for companies that export products to the west. Still, this does not make China a rich country, as a whole.

Also, with 116 recorded male births for every 100 female births, and an excess of 70 million males over females in the population as a whole, Chinese men will soon find themselves competing for an inadequate supply of women. The result is likely to be a steep decline in the age of first marriage for women (as in polygamoous societies), which may in turn reduce female participation in the workforce and with it economic output.

The Chinese may be learning free markets, and also some aspects of civil freedom, but are still a long way from developing the liberal democratic social imaginary. This (plus its historical national self-esteem problem) is why China, the economic-military giant, is prone to an illiberal and potentially dangerous nationalism.

Housing Critic3,a WHITE AMERICAN ,:) is the most nationalist and ignorant person here.

^They only buy US treasury notes to keep their own currency down. It's not like they want to the US a favor.

China will never be rich relative to the world until it permits its currency to float. Perhaps the Chinese government and large Chinese companies can become financially secure by putting their investments in dollars, Euros, or yen. However, as long as the yuan is artificially tied to the dollar (and thus practically worthless in real terms), the average Chinese citizen will not be able to purchase foreign goods (non-pirated, that is) or travel abroad. China's economy is currently being artificially inflated by underpaying the Chinese worker, resulting in cheap prices for Chinese exports and profits for companies that export products to the west. Still, this does not make China a rich country, as a whole.

Also, with 116 recorded male births for every 100 female births, and an excess of 70 million males over females in the population as a whole, Chinese men will soon find themselves competing for an inadequate supply of women. The result is likely to be a steep decline in the age of first marriage for women (as in polygamoous societies), which may in turn reduce female participation in the workforce and with it economic output.

The Chinese may be learning free markets, and also some aspects of civil freedom, but are still a long way from developing the liberal democratic social imaginary. This (plus its historical national self-esteem problem) is why China, the economic-military giant, is prone to an illiberal and potentially dangerous nationalism.


^So, what American should learn?
I think that American has so many things to learn about China, something they say about China is so rediculous.

^So, what American should learn?

open view,especially free trade spirit... :)

US has deep and serious protectionism and nationalism.

US has deep and serious protectionism and nationalism.

:crazy:

:crazy:

look at what you are doing on chinese products. :sleepy:

What are we doing to Chinese products? A few tarrifs? From articles I've read, it seems like China is more hesitant to open up some of its sectors to foreign companies. New waves of protectionism are surfacing in the United States, though--several senators are demanding that the Chinese gov. revalue the RMB.

What are we doing to Chinese products? A few tarrifs? From articles I've read, it seems like China is more hesitant to open up some of its sectors to foreign companies. New waves of protectionism are surfacing in the United States, though--several senators are demanding that the Chinese gov. revalue the RMB.

when China opens up some domestic sector is completely according to the rules of WTO,that's not China's protectionism.

US now,want to add some tarrifs on chinese products,that will be against international trade rules.

^I see---thanks for the info.

Im a chinese american you dumb shit, so i really couldnt be a sinophobe sould i, considering i go to China every other years to see my family. U really are a dumbass, just like ur theories about the chinese economy, ur assumpitions about me are way off!!!!! Thats right, feel stupid.

like hell i would even know (let alone give a rat's ass) about your ethnicity. you can still be chinese and be anti-china. it's called internalized racism. or KMT - ever heard of them? maybe you're one of those delusional nationalists from formosa.....

my theories about the Chinese economy? what theories? :stupid: i simply stated the fact that China's economic prowess has less and less to do with cheap labor manufacturing. something your little brain fails to understand. that's right, "feel stupid"..... (you must know that feeling well.)

as for my assumptions about you - honestly, i don't really care who you are. but based on your barrage of insults in your response to me, you're probably some self-hating ugly fucker with a rancid micropenis.

happy "shoyin".....

:cheers:

By the way why do you veil the fact you're a chinese american? As I think, is the life in the US uncomfortable for chinese americans? Or do you have inferiority complex toward history of chinese americans?


Homecountry? LOLOLOL :lol: stupid ass, i was born and raised in california. but thanks for assuming otherwise, bai guei.

why must you insist that i AM a chinese american in the first place? i wasn't hiding anything in the FIRST place because this thread has nothing to do with the backgrounds of its poster. i never even discussed my ethnicity on this forum to begin with. you have no fucking clue who i am. of course, it doesn't surprise me that you *think* you do because you're a typical 'bai guei'.

and god you're amazingly stupid. :|

oh, and btw, chinese americans actually fare quite nicely... in fact better than non-hispanic white counterparts. they perform better academically and economically on average, with higher household incomes than whites and all other racial groups.

sounds like you have an inferiority complex about race, since you're so obsessed with it.

Housing Critic3,a WHITE AMERICAN ,:) is the most nationalist and ignorant person here.

well, based on his/her response he/she is obsessed with race. and furthermore, presumes to know a person's race/ethnicity based on their remarks on a fucking INTERNET forum..!

:hahaha:

what a piece of work. :ohno:

*************

i am amazed that there are those like housing critic3 and mike19 who have such an annihilistic view towards china. when i throw in my two cents - which echo the sentiments of many sources incl. the Time article i posted - people get their panties a knot. it is typical behavior by those ignorant and fearful in the West to do nothing but point out the problems in China yet simultaneously failing to recognize the tremendous achievements made by the CCP. all this bullshit talk of artificially low wages, evil governments, overabundance of males, etc... i hear all this bitching, but NO solutions. ya'll have a solution for a country as complex and huge as China? a nation with 1.3 billion souls and a culture that's been around longer than just about any other in human civilization? :| give me a fucking break. here's food for thought: it's good enough that people are even able to work in China, let alone put food in their mouths. considering what china went through in the past century, the CCP is going in the right direction. how many governments can credit themselves with moving 300 million people out of poverty in the last 15 years?? how many nations have managed to sustain the highest economic growth rates for the last decade or so like China has? so what if the RMB is undervalued? at the moment, China NEEDS to leverage its manufacturing monopoly in order to keep jobs there and provide a base to sustain the lower and middle class. it's not China's problem that other country can't compete in the manufacturing sector.

Homecountry? LOLOLOL :lol: stupid ass, i was born and raised in california. but thanks for assuming otherwise, bai guei.

why must you insist that i AM a chinese american in the first place? i wasn't hiding anything in the FIRST place because this thread has nothing to do with the backgrounds of its poster. i never even discussed my ethnicity on this forum to begin with. you have no fucking clue who i am. of course, it doesn't surprise me that you *think* you do because you're a typical 'bai guei'.

and god you're amazingly stupid. :|

oh, and btw, chinese americans actually fare quite nicely... in fact better than non-hispanic white counterparts. they perform better academically and economically on average, with higher household incomes than whites and all other racial groups.

sounds like you have an inferiority complex about race, since you're so obsessed with it.

Whatever descendants of yellowfish say, after all in the US chinese americans are disposable labor for anglo-americans who provided the US rules and official language.

I thought I'd post a link of Deutsch Banks economic predictions, it contains both China and the USA. http://www.dbresearch.com/PROD/DBR_INTERNET_EN-PROD/PROD0000000000185704.pdf

People in China live in dreamland;) You have capitalism since some years and dont know many economical rights. For example they dont know that in all countries over the world, every 5-10 years, is recession when the real grow rate is 1-2% and sometimes even under 0!!! Your calculations are sa funny. It will be very good for you if ppp for China in 2060 will be 15000-20000$.

People in China live in dreamland;) You have capitalism since some years and dont know many economical rights. For example they dont know that in all countries over the world, every 5-10 years, is recession when the real grow rate is 1-2% and sometimes even under 0!!! Your calculations are sa funny. It will be very good for you if ppp for China in 2060 will be 15000-20000$.
china is nothing like those hopeless small and developed countries. china will continue growing rapidly in 30yrs. after 10 yrs, eastern coast will be developed, so will the central part after 20yrs and the western part after 30 yrs.

Whatever descendants of yellowfish say, after all in the US chinese americans are disposable labor for anglo-americans who provided the US rules and official language.

Asian-Americans are the wealthiest and most educated ethnic group per capita in the United States.

My dad hires "anglo-Americans" to work for him. It's been awhile since I've been seen by a white doctor.

People in China live in dreamland;) You have capitalism since some years and dont know many economical rights. For example they dont know that in all countries over the world, every 5-10 years, is recession when the real grow rate is 1-2% and sometimes even under 0!!! Your calculations are sa funny. It will be very good for you if ppp for China in 2060 will be 15000-20000$.
you should find the economy growth record of japan and the four asian tigers
the assumption is based on those nations' experience in the last century

...and furthermore, presumes to know a person's race/ethnicity based on their remarks on a fucking INTERNET forum..!


Thank god u don´t do that:


“maybe you're one of those delusional nationalists from formosa.....”

“sinophobic dweeb from the states.”

I dunno why u assumed i was from the states, or that i was a sinophobe. And i assure u i am near a sinophobe or hate my chinese american heritage. I think you should stop making assumptions about other ppl and not be a hypocrite by critisizing people for things that you also do.


i am amazed that there are those like housing critic3 and mike19 who have such an annihilistic view towards china ... it is typical behavior by those ignorant and fearful in the West to do nothing but point out the problems in China yet simultaneously failing to recognize the tremendous achievements made by the CCP. .

Gosh i didnt know i had not posted anything positive about china, i thought i did say the positive and negative things about the country. If only i had some proof that i did.

i´m by no means anti china. Im actually studying chinese, i love the culture.

Its growth has been spectacular but its due for a large correction. dont take my word for it, lets just wait and see.

Just because i think that growth cant be sustained doesnt mean im ignorant. And as u can see i do recognize some great things about china.


but based on your barrage of insults in your response to me, you're probably some self-hating ugly fucker with a rancid micropenis.

if i remember correctly, you were the first person to insult me. I dont recall insulting you before u insulted me. So i hope your assumptions about people that insult and its direct correlation to their physical state is wrong, for your sake.

You assume way too much. You assume im anti-china. You assume i havent said anything positiv about china. You assume china is the worlds next superpower

the fact is, China is the undisputed future superpower of the world.

im really not in the mood to argue with you about any of this because i don´t think your points are moot, but obviously u think that anyone´s points that are different than yours are. I have never said anything negative about china, the only thing i have said is that i dont think they would win in a war with the US, and that i dont think they will become rich as soon as other people assume, for various reasons. If anything i have been harsher on the US because i said i felt that the US would start a war with china or severly limit them economically. So don´t call me ignorant, or anti-china, or a sinophobe. Your the ignorant one who assumes that when someone disagree´s with you they must be a sinophobe, or anti china, or an american. If we could have a civilized convo, i would be glad to have on with you, but it seems you are one of those americans you hate to be associated with because they are ignorant and intolerant, perhaps u have internalized racism.

As for my rancid micropenis penis, my gf seems to enjoy it. Perhaps u should spend time with yours, u know let ur penis and hand unite, they could be friends. If u happen to have have a gf, and she lets u have sex with her, perhaps you could ask her if she really enjoys it, because if i have a micropenis due to my insults, god i dont know if your gf feels yours. In any case, u really need to relieve some stress.

Mike19,你是一堆屎.

open view,especially free trade spirit... :)

US has deep and serious protectionism and nationalism.

The US is one of the least protectionist countries out there. China is much more protectionist.

This thread's 11 pages long now, and there's been absolutely no constructive arguments--it's just making everyone bitter. Locky, locky?

The US is one of the least protectionist countries out there. China is much more protectionist.

it is still one of the least protectionist countries, but ithink its getting more protectionist. We just have to look at the 2004 election and one of the big issues was outsorcing.

This thread's 11 pages long now, and there's been absolutely no constructive arguments--it's just making everyone bitter. Locky, locky?
Nah, leave it open. If the thread is so pointless then I might aswell post to increase my post count;)

mike 19 absolutely need to see a doctor immediately.

Optimistic assumptions about China automatically assume that China will effectively manage the integration of 800million rural Chinese farmers into the modern world economy. No other Asian nation was ever faced with the monumental task of educating and integrating so many people into secondary and tertiary industries. There is no guarantee that China will succeed. In 2023 for all we know, China may become like so many Latin American nations with a wealthy educated 30-40% of the population surrounded by poor less-educated masses who sell trinkets on the streets or engage in other informal labour for a living.

Optimistic assumptions about China automatically assume that China will effectively manage the integration of 800million rural Chinese farmers into the modern world economy. No other Asian nation was ever faced with the monumental task of educating and integrating so many people into secondary and tertiary industries. There is no guarantee that China will succeed. In 2023 for all we know, China may become like so many Latin American nations with a wealthy educated 30-40% of the population surrounded by poor less-educated masses who sell trinkets on the streets or engage in other informal labour for a living.

it's probable that chinese peasants are more educated than you,boy. :) actually,China's junior education's the most universal of all developing countries.



China to Make Nine-year Compulsory Education Available to All Children in Five Years

China has vowed to provide nine years of compulsory education for all children by 2008, said a senior education official Saturday.

China has vowed to provide nine years of compulsory education for all children by 2008, said a senior education official Saturday.

Official statistics show that 90 percent of children already receive nine years education, but false reporting by some institutions cast doubt on the figures, said Wu Qidi, vice-minister of education, at the ongoing Chinese Women's Ninth National Congress in Beijing.

Many female children are deprived of education especially in rural and poor areas because their parents think they should stay with the family, said Wu.

In China, some female children have to leave school and move tocities for work after ending their primary school life. Despite women's rapid improvement in social status, women and children remained a weak group, Wu said.

Education for female children was of extreme importance since they will become mothers and can affect generations of families, she said.

China's national law stipulates that every child has the right to nine years of compulsory education, but the law has not been fully implemented, said Wu, calling on full legal protection for the children.

It is reported that the central government is scheduled to holda meeting on rural education within the year in order to safeguardrural children's compulsory education.

Why can't we all just be happy that it finally seems that the world is getting its act together to move the human race forward both technologically and economically. China will provide a powerful and necessary engine to move the East forward and will act along side the EU and NA to provide the progress on this globe that has, up to this point in human history, been unrealized. The only threat to this emerging Golden era is #1 environmental destruction and #2 leaving large swaths of the world behind such as Africa. The Developed and Rapidly Developing worlds need eachother to continue progressing and to meet the above challenges.

Over the next 50 years, China will no doubt have some major economic restructurings. There will be recessions and maybe a depression. There will also be major social and political changes. It will NOT be smooth sailing, so I'd be careful about becoming too arrogant concerning China's current growth rates. However, China will not look back... and this economic development will be sustained.

In contrast, the US will stay within a pretty moderate economic range, as the economy is already developed. Eventually, China will surpass the US numerically... but the US will still remain a major superpower, with huge contributions in R&D, medicine, space, etc. I truly believe that our relations will improve greatly over the coming decades. And as production costs rise in China, along with living standards... trade imbalances and other economic instabilities will find equilibrium. Certainly our two countries have a hard time understanding eachother... and many Americans still fear that the Communist government in China is a threat. However, most Americans also understand the predicament the Government is in trying to press necessary economic reforms without creating social chaos. We are very much trying to balance our rhetoric and understand the mind of China. China does things differently, but we still want to see democratic reform. I do think the China of 2050 will look dramatically different -- in a very good way -- than it does today.

I truly believe we will be committed allies someday.

Why can't we all just be happy that it finally seems that the world is getting its act together to move the human race forward both technologically and economically. China will provide a powerful and necessary engine to move the East forward and will act along side the EU and NA to provide the progress on this globe that has, up to this point in human history, been unrealized. The only threat to this emerging Golden era is #1 environmental destruction and #2 leaving large swaths of the world behind such as Africa. The Developed and Rapidly Developing worlds need eachother to continue progressing and to meet the above challenges.

Over the next 50 years, China will no doubt have some major economic restructurings. There will be recessions and maybe a depression. There will also be major social and political changes. It will NOT be smooth sailing, so I'd be careful about becoming too arrogant concerning China's current growth rates. However, China will not look back... and this economic development will be sustained.

In contrast, the US will stay within a pretty moderate economic range, as the economy is already developed. Eventually, China will surpass the US numerically... but the US will still remain a major superpower, with huge contributions in R&D, medicine, space, etc. I truly believe that our relations will improve greatly over the coming decades. And as production costs rise in China, along with living standards... trade imbalances and other economic instabilities will find equilibrium. Certainly our two countries have a hard time understanding eachother... and many Americans still fear that the Communist government in China is a threat. However, most Americans also understand the predicament the Government is in trying to press necessary economic reforms without creating social chaos. We are very much trying to balance our rhetoric and understand the mind of China. China does things differently, but we still want to see democratic reform. I do think the China of 2050 will look dramatically different -- in a very good way -- than it does today.

I truly believe we will be committed allies someday.

so nice and kind remark,but i don't think we can be allies someday,it'll not a problem for China,because historically,China is never aggresive,the hindering factor would surely be from another side.

From SSP:



By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
June 26, 2005

http://www.washtimes.com/specialreport/20050626-122138-1088r.htm


China is building its military forces faster than U.S. intelligence and military analysts expected, prompting fears that Beijing will attack Taiwan in the next two years, according to Pentagon officials.

U.S. defense and intelligence officials say all the signs point in one troubling direction: Beijing then will be forced to go to war with the United States, which has vowed to defend Taiwan against a Chinese attack.

China's military buildup includes an array of new high-technology weapons, such as warships, submarines, missiles and a maneuverable warhead designed to defeat U.S. missile defenses. Recent intelligence reports also show that China has stepped up military exercises involving amphibious assaults, viewed as another sign that it is preparing for an attack on Taiwan.

"There's a growing consensus that at some point in the mid-to-late '90s, there was a fundamental shift in the sophistication, breadth and re-sorting of Chinese defense planning," said Richard Lawless, a senior China-policy maker in the Pentagon. "And what we're seeing now is a manifestation of that change in the number of new systems that are being deployed, the sophistication of those systems and the interoperability of the systems."

China's economy has been growing at a rate of at least 10 percent for each of the past 10 years, providing the country's military with the needed funds for modernization. The combination of a vibrant centralized economy, growing military and increasingly fervent nationalism has transformed China into what many defense officials view as a fascist state.

"We may be seeing in China the first true fascist society on the model of Nazi Germany, where you have this incredible resource base in a commercial economy with strong nationalism, which the military was able to reach into and ramp up incredible production," a senior defense official said.

For Pentagon officials, alarm bells have been going off for the past two years as China's military began rapidly building and buying new troop- and weapon-carrying ships and submarines.

The release of an official Chinese government report in December called the situation on the Taiwan Strait "grim" and said the country's military could "crush" Taiwan.

Earlier this year, Beijing passed an anti-secession law, a unilateral measure that upset the fragile political status quo across the Taiwan Strait. The law gives Chinese leaders a legal basis they previously did not have to conduct a military attack on Taiwan, U.S. officials said.

The war fears come despite the fact that China is hosting the Olympic Games in 2008 and, therefore, some officials say, would be reluctant to invoke the international condemnation that a military attack on Taiwan would cause.

Army of the future

In the past, some defense specialists insisted a Chinese attack on Taiwan would be a "million-man swim" across the Taiwan Strait because of the country's lack of troop-carrying ships.

"We left the million-man swim behind in about 1998, 1999," the senior Pentagon official said. "And in fact, what people are saying now, whether or not that construct was ever useful, is that it's a moot point, because in just amphibious lift alone, the Chinese are doubling or even quadrupling their capability on an annual basis."

Asked about a possible Chinese attack on Taiwan, the official put it bluntly: "In the '07-'08 time frame, a capability will be there that a year ago we would have said was very, very unlikely. We now assess that as being very likely to be there."

Air Force Gen. Paul V. Hester, head of the Pacific Air Forces, said the U.S. military has been watching China's military buildup but has found it difficult to penetrate Beijing's "veil" of secrecy over it.

While military modernization itself is not a major worry, "what does provide you a pause for interest and concern is the amount of modernization, the kind of modernization and the size of the modernization," he said during a recent breakfast meeting with reporters.

China is building capabilities such as aerial refueling and airborne warning and control aircraft that can be used for regional defense and long-range power projection, Gen. Hester said.

It also is developing a maneuverable re-entry vehicle, or MARV, for its nuclear warheads. The weapon is designed to counter U.S. strategic-missile defenses, according to officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity. The warhead would be used on China's new DF-31 long-range missiles and its new submarine missile, the JL-2.

Work being done on China's weapons and reconnaissance systems will give its military the capability to reach 1,000 miles into the sea, "which gives them the visibility on the movement of not only our airplanes in the air, but also our forces at sea," Gen. Hester said.

Beijing also has built a new tank for its large armed forces. It is known as the Type 99 and appears similar in design to Germany's Leopard 2 main battle tank. The tank is outfitted with new artillery, anti-aircraft and machine guns, advanced fire-control systems and improved engines.

The country's air power is growing through the purchase of new fighters from Russia, such as Su-30 fighter-bombers, as well as the development of its own fighter jets, such as the J-10.

Gen. Hester compared Chinese warplanes with those of the former Soviet Union, which were less capable than their U.S. counterparts, but still very deadly.

"They have great equipment. The fighters are very technologically advanced, and what we know about them gives us pause for concern against ours," he said.

Missiles also are a worry.

"It is their surface-to-air missiles, their [advanced] SAMs and their surface-to-surface missiles, and the precision, more importantly, of those surface-to-surface missiles that provide, obviously, the ability to pinpoint targets that we might have out in the region, or our friends and allies might have," Gen. Hester said.

The advances give the Chinese military "the ability ... to reach out and touch parts of the United States -- Guam, Hawaii and the mainland of the United States," he said.

To better deal with possible future conflicts in Asia, the Pentagon is modernizing U.S. military facilities on the Western Pacific island of Guam and planning to move more forces there.

The Air Force will regularly rotate Air Expeditionary Force units to Guam and also will station the new long-range unmanned aerial vehicle known as Global Hawk on the island, he said.

It also has stationed B-2 stealth bombers on Guam temporarily and is expected to deploy B-1 bombers there, in addition to the B-52s now deployed there, Gen. Hester said.

Projecting power

China's rulers have adopted what is known as the "two-island chain" strategy of extending control over large areas of the Pacific, covering inner and outer chains of islands stretching from Japan to Indonesia.

"Clearly, they are still influenced by this first and second island chain," the intelligence official said.

The official said China's buildup goes beyond what would be needed to fight a war against Taiwan.

The conclusion of this official is that China wants a "blue-water" navy capable of projecting power far beyond the two island chains.

"If you look at the technical capabilities of the weapons platforms that they're fielding, the sea-keeping capabilities, the size, sensors and weapons fit, this capability transcends the baseline that is required to deal with a Taiwan situation militarily," the intelligence official said.

"So they are positioned then, if [Taiwan is] resolved one way or the other, to really become a regional military power as well."

The dispatch of a Han-class submarine late last year to waters near Guam, Taiwan and Japan was an indication of the Chinese military's drive to expand its oceangoing capabilities, the officials said. The submarine surfaced in Japanese waters, triggering an emergency deployment of Japan's naval forces.

Beijing later issued an apology for the incursion, but the political damage was done. Within months, Japan began adopting a tougher political posture toward China in its defense policies and public statements. A recent Japanese government defense report called China a strategic national security concern. It was the first time China was named specifically in a Japanese defense report.

Energy supply a factor

For China, Taiwan is not the only issue behind the buildup of military forces. Beijing also is facing a major energy shortage that, according to one Pentagon study, could lead it to use military force to seize territory with oil and gas resources.

The report produced for the Office of Net Assessment, which conducts assessments of future threats, was made public in January and warned that China's need for oil, gas and other energy resources is driving the country toward becoming an expansionist power.

China "is looking not only to build a blue-water navy to control the sea lanes [from the Middle East], but also to develop undersea mines and missile capabilities to deter the potential disruption of its energy supplies from potential threats, including the U.S. Navy, especially in the case of a conflict with Taiwan," the report said.

The report said China believes the United States already controls the sea routes from the oil-rich Persian Gulf through the Malacca Strait. Chinese President Hu Jintao has called this strategic vulnerability to disrupted energy supplies Beijing's "Malacca Dilemma."

To prevent any disruption, China has adopted a "string of pearls" strategy that calls for both offensive and defensive measures stretching along the oil-shipment sea lanes from China's coast to the Middle East.

The "pearls" include the Chinese-financed seaport being built at Gwadar, on the coast of western Pakistan, and commercial and military efforts to establish bases or diplomatic ties in Bangladesh, Burma, Cambodia, Thailand and disputed islands in the South China Sea.

The report stated that China's ability to use these pearls for a "credible" military action is not certain.

Pentagon intelligence officials, however, say the rapid Chinese naval buildup includes the capability to project power to these sea lanes in the future.

"They are not doing a lot of surface patrols or any other kind of security evolutions that far afield," the intelligence official said. "There's no evidence of [Chinese military basing there] yet, but we do need to keep an eye toward that expansion."

The report also highlighted the vulnerability of China's oil and gas infrastructure to a crippling U.S. attack.

"The U.S. military could severely cripple Chinese resistance [during a conflict over Taiwan] by blocking its energy supply, whereas the [People's Liberation Army navy] poses little threat to United States' energy security," it said.

China views the United States as "a potential threat because of its military superiority, its willingness to disrupt China's energy imports, its perceived encirclement of China and its disposition toward manipulating international politics," the report said.

'Mercantilist measures'

The report stated that China will resort "to extreme, offensive and mercantilist measures when other strategies fail, to mitigate its vulnerabilities, such as seizing control of energy resources in neighboring states."

U.S. officials have said two likely targets for China are the Russian Far East, which has vast oil and gas deposits, and Southeast Asia, which also has oil and gas resources.

Michael Pillsbury, a former Pentagon official and specialist on China's military, said the internal U.S. government debate on the issue and excessive Chinese secrecy about its military buildup "has cost us 10 years to figure out what to do"

"Everybody is starting to acknowledge the hard facts," Mr. Pillsbury said. "The China military buildup has been accelerating since 1999. As the buildup has gotten worse, China is trying hard to mask it."

Richard Fisher, vice president of the International Assessment and Strategy Center, said that in 10 years, the Chinese army has shifted from a defensive force to an advanced military soon capable of operations ranging from space warfare to global non-nuclear cruise-missile strikes.

"Let's all wake up. The post-Cold War peace is over," Mr. Fisher said. "We are now in an arms race with a new superpower whose goal is to contain and overtake the United States."

^I don't buy into all of that (even though a lot of people do), but the next few decades sure are going to be interesting.

U.S. protectionist, compared to China. LoLoLoLo...... Tienamen square anyone. Oh and China just loves immigrants and non chinese coming into their country to diversify and enhance their own culture. China and many Chinese I have personally met and been friends with seem to have this confucian idea of hierarchy almost obsessively ingrained into their psyche. Right now to them China and East Asia is number 2, right after the U.S. and European powers. Now they would at least like to match the power of the West to save face. China is good at direct attempts to elevate itself, even if those methods are devious by todays standards. Hello, everybody sees that. Bottom line, China really is welcomed by the rest of the world, but they should stop trying to prove this by suckering the rest of us. People are people, IQ means shit in this world, and China will realize it. The West is well prepared for China if it decides that China is trying to grow past its britches. 1.3 billion people can easily be brought down to 0 if necessary.

excited to see so many "wise" whites here
it largely enhances my belief of china's bright future.

Sorry I have no time to study the whole thread, butI guess China although is still developing , In the near future It can to have problems to maintain 8% growth . Reason seems to be very clear.

First of all China there will be great problem to find such huge amount of energy for entire Chinese society. It is almost sure that there won't be enough oil for this country and renewable sources of energy are still not so developed to satisfy people's claims.

Second problem which can appear is fact that Chinese will become more conscious of their value , and will demand some institutions of welfare state.
It would boost dramatically costs of work.

Another scenario - European counties will find out that their economies are not so competetive to Chinese one and will leave policy of social security.


These 3 occurrencies can slow down Chinese growth.

Actually the main stumbling block of China is the over-heating economy and credit is also a wee problem that could burst the bubble. On altogether different front, the growth could become unmanagable...but in 5 years it could be quite different and China could lapse into a recession: its all too possible.


And if China attacked Taiwan in two years (no particular reason other than ego) then that would see trade sanctions placed upon China and it would most likely loose such a war purely on the economic front due to the might of the developed world (which is on the side of Tiawan), China would never risk such a maneuver.

This Bill Gertz is interesting, i wonder if he wrote that article for career reasons or if he believed in it. hehe... I think he forgot that it's Japan that bombed Pearl Harbor.

so nice and kind remark,but i don't think we can be allies someday,it'll not a problem for China,because historically,China is never aggresive,the hindering factor would surely be from another side.

That's not true. China has tried to invade Vietnam repeatily. The last war between the two nations in the 1980s. Under the Mongols, there were two attempts to invade Japan. China also fired missles a few miles off the coast of Taiwan some years ago when they had elections. How is that not agressive?

History doesn't control the actions of leaders today.

That's not true. China has tried to invade Vietnam repeatily. The last war between the two nations in the 1980s. Under the Mongols, there were two attempts to invade Japan. China also fired missles a few miles off the coast of Taiwan some years ago when they had elections. How is that not agressive?

History doesn't control the actions of leaders today.

Interesting. There's no country that doesn't go to war, but on the whole, Chinese people are more interested in doing business than war. War spoils business and profits. Everyone knows this.

Currently, what is worrying is not China, but small nukes landing in the hands of some terrorist, and wherever the nuke is used, it will cause a big problem to the world economy and stability.

Umm... the Swiss don't go to war! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

sorry, it should be - there's no large country that hasn't gone for war.

^ LOL, 'sok, I knew what you mean. :)

But you know... if anyone ever tried to attack Switzerland, they'd get SPANKED by the Swiss military all up in those mountains!!! :cheers:

That's not true. China has tried to invade Vietnam repeatily. The last war between the two nations in the 1980s. Under the Mongols, there were two attempts to invade Japan. China also fired missles a few miles off the coast of Taiwan some years ago when they had elections. How is that not agressive?

History doesn't control the actions of leaders today.

Not actually. Modern concept "country" is not the same as that in the ancient ages. Do you believe that Vietnam (at least some part of Vietnam) was part of China? China was "mother country" of Vietnam and Korea.

And Taiwan island is an absolute part of China. It's recognized by the UN and almost all countries in the world after the WWII. Taiwan was/is a part of Republic of China or People's Republic of China, anyway, it's a part of China. Those taiwanese who don't think they are Chinese may leave Taiwan, which is a part of China.

Just an aside, Mike19, I don't mean to sound like I'm stereotyping, but it's been my experience that Asian-Americans don't look "fondly" on their home country, as in they left behind a horrible desolate place.

I think this is really judgemental, because countries like China are not the same communist hellholes they left behind in the 50s/60s/70s. Instead they too can afford American-class comfort of living now, and I think a lot of Asian-Americans fail to see that.

We know one thing is for sure. If the economy does slow down or go into a resession the Communist party's monopoly on power will be over.

We know one thing is for sure. If the economy does slow down or go into a resession the Communist party's monopoly on power will be over.?

China's economy has been in recession for several times since 27 years ago,boy. :)

?

China's economy has been in recession for several times since 27 years ago,boy. :)

A recession will hit many economies, especially for primary product producers like Australia, Malaysia, and the Middle East.

btw, China's invasion of Vietnam as reported by BBC - http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/february/17/newsid_2547000/2547811.stm.

Umm... the Swiss don't go to war! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
:cheers:

Just an aside, Mike19, I don't mean to sound like I'm stereotyping, but it's been my experience that Asian-Americans don't look "fondly" on their home country, as in they left behind a horrible desolate place.

I think this is really judgemental, because countries like China are not the same communist hellholes they left behind in the 50s/60s/70s. Instead they too can afford American-class comfort of living now, and I think a lot of Asian-Americans fail to see that.

Inferiority complex?

I took a close look at the topic again. "China may be a developed country to 2023". I think Shanghai, Beijing, Shenzhen, and a few other major cities will reach developed status even before 2023. But for the countryside/villages in inland provinces to reach developed status by 2023 would probably be difficult???

Just an aside, Mike19, I don't mean to sound like I'm stereotyping, but it's been my experience that Asian-Americans don't look "fondly" on their home country, as in they left behind a horrible desolate place.

I think this is really judgemental, because countries like China are not the same communist hellholes they left behind in the 50s/60s/70s. Instead they too can afford American-class comfort of living now, and I think a lot of Asian-Americans fail to see that.


I think the last part is true, but i also think that a lot of asian americans realize that Asia is developing. However, i would like to point out that i would say over 90% of first and second generation asian americans consider themselves to be americans of asian decent, not asians in america, so i dont think they care much about china etc.. however, ppl who immigrated here, probably have bad memories of their home countries, and they may not like their home countries. But it depends on the generation.

^ Yeah thanks for the info. Like I know a lot of Asian Americans in their 20s who want to go live in Korea, and their parents of course think they're nuts! :)

I'm a 4th-gen Italian American, and I actually want to go live over in East or Southeast Asia for a while. And I have to say their modern transformation is one of the bigger reasons. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

China still have a long way to go! I think Chinese goverment's goal is more realistic: to be a developed country 80 years later.

Yeah China's still "on its way". I know there's a lot of people here in the US that frown upon things like the one child policy, but I realize its extremely important to regulate the Chinese population before it imploded upon itself.

The other big thing I worry about with China is basic sanitation. I really feel they're just one correctly-placed "SARS-type" outbreak away from losing a substantial percentage of their population. :(

Not actually. Modern concept "country" is not the same as that in the ancient ages. Do you believe that Vietnam (at least some part of Vietnam) was part of China? China was "mother country" of Vietnam and Korea.

And Taiwan island is an absolute part of China. It's recognized by the UN and almost all countries in the world after the WWII. Taiwan was/is a part of Republic of China or People's Republic of China, anyway, it's a part of China. Those taiwanese who don't think they are Chinese may left Taiwan, which is a part of China.

This doesn't mean China has rarely been aggressive as said by Tiger. China was aggressive to Vietnam just in 1979 and lost to Vietnam.

?

China's economy has been in recession for several times since 27 years ago,boy. :)

Not for atleast 15 years. Even during the Asian financial crisis mainland China GDP growth was only slowed down 1% or 2%. Also just after tiananmen square GDP growth was slowed. The people are more wealthy today and much less likely to listen to the government if that money is taken away.

Do you believe that Vietnam (at least some part of Vietnam) was part of China? China was "mother country" of Vietnam and Korea.



Maybe, the UNWANTED mother if you say so.
Cause NO true mother attack their precious children.

Anyway, there is no 'Mother, Father, Brothe, friend and whatever between countries.

Maybe, the UNWANTED mother if you say so.
Cause NO true mother attack their precious children.

Anyway, there is no 'Mother, Father, Brothe, friend and whatever between countries.

I think motherland might be the wrong word to use, maybe mutual dependency might be a better word. Korea is one example - although there are times when China sent troops to get submission from Korean states, in most cases, it is to help ward off the Japanese who are always looking for new territories. As we all know, Japan is always invading Korea from at least the 15th century till WWII. Their intention is always to take Korea first, then followed by China.

And in most invasion, except for the modern PRC take over of Tibet, the Chinese normally withdraw after installing their own puppet - the policy is similar to the USA of today. China, while under Yuan dynasty took over quite a lot of neighbouring countries, but these are done by Mongols that basically conquered half the world then.

The important fact is that Vietnam and Korea did not WANT China to be anything to them and had rebellions in the process.

i believe china can surpass the rest of the world much earlier than predicted...

The important fact is that Vietnam and Korea did not WANT China to be anything to them and had rebellions in the process.

The relation is complicated i think, at least with Korea. They are foes and allies at different periods of time from history.

It's hard to say whether China is an aggressive country, but Japan is definitely aggressive owing to the samurai culture, as we all know, be it corporate or military aggression.

This doesn't mean China has rarely been aggressive as said by Tiger. China was aggressive to Vietnam just in 1979 and lost to Vietnam.

China lost to Vietnam? China wanted to keep Indochina what it was and prevent Vietnam from attempting to invade and "unite" it.

Vietnam was not trying to invade anybody in 1979 or had plans to invade all of Indochina. They did occupy a part of Cambodia during the Vietnam War. I don't know all the details but it was short lived.

I've never heard anything saying that they had plans to invade Thailand, Laos, or Myanmmar.

Why should China intervene? Indochina doesn't belong to China.

Too much trolling earlier in the thread.