Kirkgate Market Redevelopment

As this seems quite an important project, perhaps it needs its own thread, and we do need something more attractive than what is currently there to stand opposite the proposed John Lewis development, and that is the main reason why this project is so important - nobody wants anything tatty-looking to stand opposite John Lewis and this part of the Harewood Redevelopment.

Leeds City Council is looking to secure a £20m re-development partnership to give the historic market a face lift

Talks with traders and local businesses have highlighted the need to improve the visual appearance of the market including replacing trading halls, known as "temporary sheds", built after a fire in 1975, and improving the market's frontage onto George Street.

The market enjoys the custom of around 200,000 visitors a week and the re-development is seen as key to securing the markets future.

The council, John Lewis and two developers, Hammerson and Town Centre Securities, recently announced plans to create a 100-shop retail development in the area near the market.

Developers are proposing to spend around £500m buying the land and transforming an area between Eastgate and Kirkgate Market, where a John Lewis department store will be at the heart of the new Harewood Quarter.

Office and apartments may even be built above the market.

The huge market is famous for being the home of Marks and Spencer, where Michael Marks opened his Penny Bazaar 1884 in the original Edwardian Hall. Kirgate Market itself opened its doors in 1904.

This proposal is representative of the huge amount of development that is taking place to the east of the City Centre.

A 1980s plan to redevelop the market 'sheds'.
Very ha ha postmodern. :hahano:

http://www.leodis.org/discovery/images/200364_420354188.jpg

Any further developments on this yet?

I think they're still trying to secure it... It might not happen for a while, but at least its not the most urgent development!

Any further developments on this yet?

I hope so. Leeds seems to be on the slide at the moment. No sign of these important retail schemes going ahead, so we're stuck with the increasingly shabby city centre fabric well into the next decade. :cry:

I hope so. Leeds seems to be on the slide at the moment. No sign of these important retail schemes going ahead, so we're stuck with the increasingly shabby city centre fabric well into the next decade. :cry:

oh woe di Livio. I'd say its not all as bad as it seems...... masses of development occuring along both the East and West corridors, Quarry Hill and the cultural quarter improving, BWP and HUV starting to stir.

The core of the city centre to me is around Briggate and Land Lane/WH Smiths, where some visionary made sure that the streets were pedestrianised and integrated with the network of arcades.

Certain bits are granted, shabby - Kirkgate, Lower Briggate, Trinty Quarter area, Eastgate etc, but I have no reason to doubt Hammerson and TCS and their plans, John Lewis publically committing is a real result.

Trinity Quarter will start in 2006 apparently. The Central Core to me is Central Sq/Briggate as you say, although now starting to extend north with Millennium Square, The Light and the original Merrion and St. Johns Centre. Despite the fact I like the Christmas Markets in Millennium Square, I think it would be nice to have them (or at least some) along Briggate...

I hope so. Leeds seems to be on the slide at the moment. No sign of these important retail schemes going ahead, so we're stuck with the increasingly shabby city centre fabric well into the next decade. :cry:

I'll retract that very pessimistic statement immediately. It comes from going to the Bullring every so often and seeing acres of floor space and brand names unavailable in Leeds (and a Selfridges).
And yet, the Bullring took ages to get built, so patience is obviuously required.

Well Selfridges were looking for sites in Leeds (and other cities) and I think probably they still are interested in Leeds, just haven't found the correct site yet... Are there any large retail oppurtunites which isn't the Harewood/Eastgate Qtr? Possibly thats simply the problem- for some reason that isn't good enough, and there are no other suitable places... I would have always thought that with a major renovation and modernisation the old Allders building would have made a fine John Lewis allowing the space they're using for a Selfridges, although of course this will not happen...

We also need to remember that no matter how much Leeds' City Centre stays the same, it will always be the regions prime shopping centre, or at least for a very long time to come.

Well Selfridges were looking for sites in Leeds (and other cities) and I think probably they still are interested in Leeds, just haven't found the correct site yet... Are there any large retail oppurtunites which isn't the Harewood/Eastgate Qtr? Possibly thats simply the problem- for some reason that isn't good enough, and there are no other suitable places... I would have always thought that with a major renovation and modernisation the old Allders building would have made a fine John Lewis allowing the space they're using for a Selfridges, although of course this will not happen...

Apparently Selfridges have pulled in their horns and scrapped proposed expansion into Leeds and other places.

A 1980s plan to redevelop the market 'sheds'.
Very ha ha postmodern. :hahano:

http://www.leodis.org/discovery/images/200364_420354188.jpg
Postmodern it may be, but its better looking than whats there at the moment.

Hmm possibly, but I do think that Selfridges will look to Leeds as one of the priority places to open if they do expand, which I think they will eventually. As for the markets, I know what you mean ps60 but seeing as that wasnt built and wont be built I think we should be looking for something of a much higher standard, and something really modern to make a world class market that compliments the existing Edwardian Market. We don't want ordinary modern, if its cutting edge it will be a real point to Leeds as markets are generally associated with cheap and tacky.

The cheap and tackiness is what makes Leeds Markets great. Where else can you pick apples up at 10 for 30p and illegally imported birds in the same place?

As for Selfridges moving into Leeds, whilst it would be great, I wouldn't expect it hapening very soon.

As for Selfridges moving into Leeds, whilst it would be great, I wouldn't expect it hapening very soon.

Well, at the moment it doesn't look as if it will ever happen.

What's wrong witht the Allders site for these retail boys!?

What's wrong witht the Allders site for these retail boys!?

Because the building's owners didn't want it. They made a decision to redevelop the site with 4 or 5 retail units (or shops to the rest of us) with flats on the upper floors. There was a render posted on here some time ago; it looked very good, with the incomplete end of the building finished off and what looked like a row of penthouses built on the top.

By the way, what's this fascination with Selfridge's?

It simply is a big name that would attract people from the region and majorly improve the shopping scene and reputation of Leeds. It would have a bigger effect than the hype over Harvey Nichols when it moved to Briggate.

I don't care about Leeds repuation, it's just an ace shop.

Selfridges is quality, their foodhalls are second to none.

previously to this forum Id never even heard of selfridges...

I don't really get the fascination with Selfridges. They market themselves as the "best department store for brands" - they don't sell a lot that you can't get elsewhere. I always thought that with Harvey Nicks as well. I reckon you can buy loads of their stock in other shops in The Victoria Quarter, they don't sell a lot of "Unique to Harvey Nichols" products.

As said earlier, Selfridges Foodhall is unbelievably good!!

I don't know whether this is the right thread to bring this up but I'm curious to know what other cities have in terms of boutique shopping. In Leeds we have the all the arcades (and Corn Exchange) that are full of shops selling designer products, do other cities have as much of this kind of thing as us? Or more?

It would be a shame if nothing was done with this area. The walk down towards the bus station (many peoples daily exit from the centre), has always been an eyesore. A lot of people also arrive at the coach station in Leeds for the first time, only to be greeted with a litter strewn void before they hit city centre proper. I hope this will be of a high prioirity, as a well designed development here would complement our fantastic market building, whilst providing an aesthetically pleasing walk into the centre.

It would be a shame if nothing was done with this area. The walk down towards the bus station (many peoples daily exit from the centre), has always been an eyesore. A lot of people also arrive at the coach station in Leeds for the first time, only to be greeted with a litter strewn void before they hit city centre proper. I hope this will be of a high prioirity, as a well designed development here would complement our fantastic market building, whilst providing an aesthetically pleasing walk into the centre.


There were plans to build a hotel etc. (I think with outline approval) on this land at George Street/Union Street by TCS but that was discarded when the opportunity arose to join forces with Hammerson to develop the rest of the Eastgate quarter. No doubt by about 2010/11 it will all be completed. But it has been allowed to fester as an eyesore in this strategic part of town for far too long.
As for the Markets, the only part with any charm or character is the Edwardian part- the rest is rubbish and looks it !

Oil - all cities have similar.

Brum has the Post Box (I think), Manc has The Triangle, Barton Arcade, New Cathedral Street, King Street...

Think most cities have virtually the same shops as well - as has been said elsewhere, they are pretty much identikit these days.

I've got the Oxford Street flagship Selfridges about 2 miles from my flat and I must admit its a godsend, and a fantastic experience. The rest of Oxford Street can frankly jump, but the sheer scale of Selfridges and its selection / ranges due to the internal franchises makes it a great experience. And I'm a bloke who typically hates crowds and shopping in general. We have lots of lovely atmospheric shopping locations (arcades/corn exchange etc) in Leeds, but no real proper big shopping centre (which again I'd typically hate), but am sure anything like the Bull Ring would be a huge asset to the city centre.

the plans for the old Lewis' / Alders are great - really make the most of a grand building and will complement the rejuventation of the old Odeon cinema.

I think I was being a bit facetious, questioning the need for Selfridge's earlier on. Let's face it, they have the best window displays in Oxford Street. But I was a bit concerned about what seemed to me to be a bit of a knee jerk reaction along the lines of "Selfridge's cut back expansion plans, possible Leeds store a victim of retrenchment, end of civilisation as we know it!!!"

Bit of an exaggeration, and apologies to those who expressed concern but I think we need to get real here. Selfridge's is a small-scale operator (albeit at the high end of the market) along with the likes of Harvey Nichols. So they're not going to open a store in every metropolis. My view is we can deal with that. John Lewis, on the other hand, has a bit more mass-market appeal, even though they're still a class operation.

Realistically, do we think we can operate a city centre with HN, a large M & S, Debenham's, House of Fraser, a very big John Lewis, and a Selfridge's? Not sure we can, and not sure I'd want to. With the multiples mentioned above, I think we need more smaller stores, a mixture of quality (inter)nationals, Paul Smith, Nicole Farhi et al, and those quirky independents we see around the Corn Exchange and that we used to see in the Victoria Quarter.

Oh, and given that this thread is meant to be about the markets area, what about all those empty stalls in the market itself?

Does anyone else see the local authority looking at the tin sheds between the Edwardian market buildings and the coach station as being ready for the sell off? It's a prime location, after all, a bit on the cusp perhaps but there's plenty of investment going in around the edges.

Something about Leeds City Centre in general though, is that if you're shopping you can get round it in an afternoon, or if you aren't shopping there isn't that much else to do, other than the temporary attractions of Millennium Square. This is why larger stores would be good for retail, but also major improvements to the cultural scene would be good, and would satisfy a wider audience.

Realistically, do we think we can operate a city centre with HN, a large M & S, Debenham's, House of Fraser, a very big John Lewis, and a Selfridge's? Not sure we can, and not sure I'd want to. With the multiples mentioned above, I think we need more smaller stores, a mixture of quality (inter)nationals, Paul Smith, Nicole Farhi et al, and those quirky independents we see around the Corn Exchange and that we used to see in the Victoria Quarter.

Of course. Decades ago we had Lewis's, Schofields, Hitchens, Marshall and Snelgrove and others too like the Co-op. These department stores can all add to the mix of retail outlets that can make a shopping centre attractive to all types of shoppers.

Of course. Decades ago we had Lewis's, Schofields, Hitchens, Marshall and Snelgrove and others too like the Co-op. These department stores can all add to the mix of retail outlets that can make a shopping centre attractive to all types of shoppers.

Not forgetting Mathias Robinsons (Debenhams now)! I remember Marshall & Snelgrove's vaguely - always had a large Christmas tree above the entrance if memory serves?

[QUOTE=Metrolink]Oil - all cities have similar.

Brum has the Post Box (I think), Manc has The Triangle, Barton Arcade, New Cathedral Street, King Street...

Oh - I know all cities have them, it's just that Leeds seems to have a pretty large amount of them. Sorry, a bit of a stupid question, suffice to say that Leeds seems to have an awful lot of independent stockits/shops.

[QUOTE=Metrolink]Oil - all cities have similar.

Brum has the Post Box (I think), Manc has The Triangle, Barton Arcade, New Cathedral Street, King Street...

Oh - I know all cities have them, it's just that Leeds seems to have a pretty large amount of them. Sorry, a bit of a stupid question, suffice to say that Leeds seems to have an awful lot of independent stockits/shops.

Probably no more pro rata than other cities.

The Mailbox seems to be a bit like the Victoria Quarter - Harvey Nicks, hair stylists and Armani-type outlets. It's an impressive development, linked to the canal network, with bars and restaurants going down to Brindley Place and the Ikon gallery. Perhaps the Harewood Quarter will act as a link to Quarry Hill and the burgeoning (or not) cultural quarter.

http://www.walkingbritain.co.uk/walks/walkss/images/s003g.jpg

I looked at the original plans for the Harewood Quarter a few years ago. It was always intended to contain retail predominantly, but there was also a hotel, underground car park, and apartments included in the red-brick design. It was changed to incorporate a stone-clad frontage, in keeping with the adjacent markets.

http://www.fjarchitects.co.uk/images/1734_big.jpg

Of course. Decades ago we had Lewis's, Schofields, Hitchens, Marshall and Snelgrove and others too like the Co-op. These department stores can all add to the mix of retail outlets that can make a shopping centre attractive to all types of shoppers.

Hmmm, maybe. But, as you say, that was decades ago and shopping habits have changed since then. I recall that these would have been general stores where you could have expected to find a pretty wide range of products on offer - clothes, food, furniture, toiletries, household goods, bookshop, travel department and, in the case of Harrod's, an exotic pet department. The last of this kind of shop in Leeds was Allders. However the only way that department stores have managed to survive these days is by finding the right niche and rigorously excluding all else. So, I don't really expect to see a return to those days, nice as it would be to see a branch of Selfridge's in town.

There were plans to build a hotel etc. (I think with outline approval) on this land at George Street/Union Street by TCS but that was discarded when the opportunity arose to join forces with Hammerson to develop the rest of the Eastgate quarter. No doubt by about 2010/11 it will all be completed. But it has been allowed to fester as an eyesore in this strategic part of town for far too long.
As for the Markets, the only part with any charm or character is the Edwardian part- the rest is rubbish and looks it !

Of course Fred - to describe the appearnce of any other part of the market as fantastic would be ludicrous. The Edwardian part, could be incorporated into a magnificent development.

The litter strewn void however, (aka a large carpark,) should be developed.

This thread's been dormant for a while but.........


Historic Leeds market set for revamp

By Richard Edwards

LEEDS'S historic Kirkgate Market is today - Monday - facing major changes.
On Wednesday, city leaders will debate a document outlining proposed alterations to the newer indoor and outdoor sections of the market. The papers will also seek views about improvement works on the Victorian and Edwardian sections.

If Leeds City Council's executive board approves the report, a three-month consultation process over the proposals, involving the public and the market traders, will begin. Almost two years ago, the YEP reported stallholders' concerns. They said relations with management were at an all-time low and claimed the bottom end of the market was being deliberately run down.
Claims were made that managers wanted to develop the historic upper part as another indoor shopping centre while selling off the bottom half.

Liz Laughton, whose family has run R Bethell fishmonger for more than 100 years, said then: "The bottom end will go and the top end will become an extension of the Victoria Quarter. The bottom end looks derelict and dirty, it is suffering from prolonged neglect."

But markets boss Chris Sanderson, who said that while the bottom half of the market "might be refurbished", he was unaware of plans to cut the number of stalls. Coun Andrew Carter, executive member for city development and regeneration, said stalls in the lower part of the market had been built for temporary use. Those stalls date back to rebuilding work after the 1975 fire, and were given a life of 25 to 30 years.

Coun Carter said: "It's now time to think how best to replace them, to build upon the success of the market and enhance its unique historical character whilst creating a vibrant space that will complement Leeds' role as the region's shopping capital.

"The consultation is key to achieving this – we need to make sure we're asking the right people the right questions and consider everyone's views on the future of one of the jewels in this city's crown."

A council spokesman said the consultation would be underpinned by a number of key principles. He said: "The market will be the dominant feature of any redevelopment, it will continue to be run by the council, it will remain in its current location and will be the same scale as the current market."

But Mrs Laughton, a traders' leader, said: "The council has told us nothing about this, but then they have behaved in an underhand way for years. We will be looking at the proposals very closely."

(from today's YEP)

It would make sense to redevelop it in the wider east end regeneration that is taking place. The rebuilding of the markets will extend the Eastgate and Quarry Hiil Quarters shopping area too.

Hmmm, maybe. But, as you say, that was decades ago and shopping habits have changed since then. I recall that these would have been general stores where you could have expected to find a pretty wide range of products on offer - clothes, food, furniture, toiletries, household goods, bookshop, travel department and, in the case of Harrod's, an exotic pet department. The last of this kind of shop in Leeds was Allders. However the only way that department stores have managed to survive these days is by finding the right niche and rigorously excluding all else. So, I don't really expect to see a return to those days, nice as it would be to see a branch of Selfridge's in town.

You are wrong, aviator. John Lewis is doing very well, thank you, and plans to open new stores in the coming years in Leicester, Cardiff, Portsmouth, Oxford, Stratford, Leeds and Preston. They hardly occupy a niche !

It would make sense to redevelop it in the wider east end regeneration that is taking place. The rebuilding of the markets will extend the Eastgate and Quarry Hiil Quarters shopping area too.

I really don't get this. The Trinity and Eastgate schemes are set to kick off and we're talking about yet another shopping centre. Surely this is the last thing that Leeds needs.

Kirkgate Market certainly needs a spruce up and old style markets have probably had their day to be fair but with a bit of imagination it could be a fantastic shopping destination.

Here in the smoke, quirky, specialist markets are all the rage. Within walking distance from me I've got Borough Market (an organic food and farmers market), Columbia Road flower market and Bermondsey Antique Market. Portobello Road is going strong amongst many others. These markets are so busy that you actually have to time your visit carefully to have space to move! The reason that they have been so successful is that they have adapted to meet changing tastes.

So my grand plan is, spruce up the market buildings, move the tat stalls into the Merrion market which would become the cheap and cheerful city centre market, create specialist quarters within Kirkgate market for various goods, food, clothes, crafts, flowers etc a few little coffee shops around the edge and brand it as a quirky independent bohemian market.

Bingo, before you can say 'zeitgeist' the yummy mummies from Roundhay, Chap All and Horsforth will be lunching at Kirkgate surrounded by bags of organic produce and freetrade cotton t shirts. Sounds crazy? I'm sure that people would have said that about Borough Market 5 years ago, last year Time Out readers voted it the top attraction in London!

LCC, please just deposit the Intellectual Property payment direct into my bank account, ta very much! ;)

However I really do not understand the need for a new designer shopping centre, surely there is so much scope for Vicar Lane to fulfil that role. OK at the moment there is Flannels, Boss, Peter Maturi, Fired Earth etc but there is still so much tat along there, the Food Weighhouse and the bong/natural highs shop spring immediately to mind. If there is really a waiting list for units in VQ then surely these kind of units should be being taken over and the street brought upmarket along its length. I find this lack of strategic direction in Leeds centre really frustrating. Vicar Lane and Kirkgate is such a bitty area but with so much potential.

I really don't get this. The Trinity and Eastgate schemes are set to kick off and we're talking about yet another shopping centre. Surely this is the last thing that Leeds needs.

Kirkgate Market certainly needs a spruce up and old style markets have probably had their day to be fair but with a bit of imagination it could be a fantastic shopping destination.

Here in the smoke, quirky, specialist markets are all the rage. Within walking distance from me I've got Borough Market (an organic food and farmers market), Columbia Road flower market and Bermondsey Antique Market. Portobello Road is going strong amongst many others. These markets are so busy that you actually have to time your visit carefully to have space to move! The reason that they have been so successful is that they have adapted to meet changing tastes.

So my grand plan is, spruce up the market buildings, move the tat stalls into the Merrion market which would become the cheap and cheerful city centre market, create specialist quarters within Kirkgate market for various goods, food, clothes, crafts, flowers etc a few little coffee shops around the edge and brand it as a quirky independent bohemian market.

Bingo, before you can say 'zeitgeist' the yummy mummies from Roundhay, Chap All and Horsforth will be lunching at Kirkgate surrounded by bags of organic produce and freetrade cotton t shirts. Sounds crazy? I'm sure that people would have said that about Borough Market 5 years ago, last year Time Out readers voted it the top attraction in London!

LCC, please just deposit the Intellectual Property payment direct into my bank account, ta very much! ;)

However I really do not understand the need for a new designer shopping centre, surely there is so much scope for Vicar Lane to fulfil that role. OK at the moment there is Flannels, Boss, Peter Maturi, Fired Earth etc but there is still so much tat along there, the Food Weighhouse and the bong/natural highs shop spring immediately to mind. If there is really a waiting list for units in VQ then surely these kind of units should be being taken over and the street brought upmarket along its length. I find this lack of strategic direction in Leeds centre really frustrating. Vicar Lane and Kirkgate is such a bitty area but with so much potential.

There is a chap on Secret Leeds called Reggie Perrin with exactly the same view as yourself,you arenot one and the same are you?

Anyway let me set out my stall.
the market was always the place for my family to shop,i have very fond memories of visiting the market every saturday to get a matchbox car from one of the toyshops.

When the market was blighted by fire in 75 it was rebuilt with what can only be described as a big shed,which was a temporary measure until something more permanent was built.

Still,it managed to thrive along with the outside market which was the mainstay of veg and fruit.

things have changed over the years and the majority of people do not shop at the market,probably the older end of our population (my 82 year old aunt still goes)and also those on the lower income end of the scale.

The outside market is populated with second hand shoe stalls and poor bric a brac sellers who have sourced their stock from house clearances and jumble sales,the "New" market is not much better,there are only a few stalls left there that continue the tradition of quality family run/sized retail.

The whole of this are is a mockery to the aspirations of Leeds,can you imagine having a 60 storey building on Millgarth and the Eastgate quarter next to the market as it is now?

frankly i cannot see the two being able to live side by side with the current state of affairs,the market needs to be brought up to date,along with Kirkgate and the rest of the untouched Vicar Lane.

get rid of the shed and the outside market,develop the Edwardian Market as Smoggie has suggested.

The market as it was has had its day,let it continue to be a market but with a new direction,times have changed.

I didn't mean redevelop it as a high street shopping centre; rather redevelop it as a market. It would still be a market, but one that is of better quality in terms of the building, and that is designed so that people are encouraged to shop in the market as well as Eastgate Quarters (ie putting entrances opposite major store entrances in Eastgate, or entrances opposite streets in Eastgate).

You are wrong, aviator. John Lewis is doing very well, thank you, and plans to open new stores in the coming years in Leicester, Cardiff, Portsmouth, Oxford, Stratford, Leeds and Preston. They hardly occupy a niche !

Well, it's taken you two years to respond to that post!

And in what am I wrong? You made the point that, years ago, there were many generalist department stores in Leeds, of the type I mentioned in my post of 28 October 2005. My point was, and remains, that the days of these dominating the retail scene in Leeds or any other major city are well truly over. The success of John Lewis changes that not one jot.

There is a chap on Secret Leeds called Reggie Perrin with exactly the same view as yourself,you arenot one and the same are you?

No but I shall check out Secret Leeds, sounds intruiging!

Anyway let me set out my stall.

Stall, market, I see what you did there! ;)

I agree about the market, cnosni. I think the market needs to be rebranded; there is still demand for market-type stalls, just not in the way we might originally concieve. A popular stal that many young people use is the "stolen" stall at the bottom of the outdoor market. Obviously it's not stolen; just clothes that stores didn't want as theres a mis-stitch or something. It would be good to encourage gentrification and designer outlets along Vicar Lane, Lower Briggate and around the CornX so that popular shops like Vintage and Blue Rinse are encouraged to move into the market. These shops seem perfect for the market, and in re-inventing it. It also brings the advantage of more quality retail space for either designer or quirky shops around the CornX that perhaps wouldn't fit the market.

Further to Smoogie_Si market suggestions have a look at this oiece i saw in the London evening standard

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23420727-details/More+of+us+are+shopping+locally/article.do

well i hope it works,if not just go to their homepage

Further to Smoogie_Si market suggestions have a look at this oiece i saw in the London evening standard

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23420727-details/More+of+us+are+shopping+locally/article.do

well i hope it works,if not just go to their homepage

:bowtie:

Blimey, I used to work for the Deloittes partner who wrote the report! Small world!

I really think that it is a concept that would work so well in Leeds, sadly I do not think that Leeds City Council has the imagination, foresight or commercial awareness to recognise this, instead it will allow Kirkgate Market to slowly die.

Not sure if youve seen this on Leeds civic trusts newsletter for October.
Apologies if you have already noticed it

"Leeds City Markets. The Civic Architect, John Thorp, gave the Committee a presentation on the future of the market, highlighting concerns with the structure of the ‘new’ buildings erected in 1976 and 1981. The Council is committed to the market and plans showed redevelopment of these recent sections to provide both covered and open trading areas, with a ring of new buildings to help fund the work. We welcomed these initial concepts."

:bowtie:

Blimey, I used to work for the Deloittes partner who wrote the report! Small world!

I really think that it is a concept that would work so well in Leeds, sadly I do not think that Leeds City Council has the imagination, foresight or commercial awareness to recognise this, instead it will allow Kirkgate Market to slowly die.

I think that you and cnosi are on absolutely the right track. As you say, though, it remains to be seen whether the city council is willing to bite the bullet on this one.

The galling thing is that there are already a few signs that the market could develop in this way. Firstly, look at the success of the twice-monthly farmers' market. This has been increasing, in the three or four years I've been going to it, both in terms of the numbers of people using it and in the range and variety of the stalls. Secondly, a couple of stalls in the market along the lines you suggest are (I hope) flourishing. There's the deli stall along the row nearest Kirkgate, there's the Greek foodstall nearby, and for all I know there may be others.

I think that you and cnosi are on absolutely the right track. As you say, though, it remains to be seen whether the city council is willing to bite the bullet on this one.

The galling thing is that there are already a few signs that the market could develop in this way. Firstly, look at the success of the twice-monthly farmers' market. This has been increasing, in the three or four years I've been going to it, both in terms of the numbers of people using it and in the range and variety of the stalls. Secondly, a couple of stalls in the market along the lines you suggest are (I hope flourishing). There's the deli stall along the row nearest Kirkgate, there's the Greek foodstall nearby, and for all I know there may be others.

Most of the market is a mess and uninviting and I can't understand why, when ever I brought this up, there were posters telling me off and protesting that it is fine and thriving. Well, is it? Certainly the 'powers that be' and a lot of the public now don't think so. As for the specialist and deli stalls, there was an olive stall in the bottom of the market but I don't think it's open now - along with a lot of other stalls in that part of the market.

Most of the market is a mess and uninviting and I can't understand why, when ever I brought this up, there were posters telling me off and protesting that it is fine and thriving. Well, is it? Certainly the 'powers that be' and a lot of the public now don't think so. As for the specialist and deli stalls, there was an olive stall in the bottom of the market but I don't think it's open now - along with a lot of other stalls in that part of the market.

That's a neat twist of the truth there, Fred. The 'powers that be' are not proposing redevelopment of the Market because they share your opinion of it's economic state. They are proposing redevelopment because the lower part of the buildings were built following the fire 25 years ago, and were only meant to last 20 years. It's a structural question; which is being used as an opportunity for a wider rethink of the Market's future direction.

If Kirkgate Market is in such a terrible state, why are the traders and public so desperate to keep it largely as it is, Fred?

That's a neat twist of the truth there, Fred.

If Kirkgate Market is in such a terrible state, why are the traders and public so desperate to keep it largely as it is, Fred?

So (apart from the top Edwardian end about which there is no question) it's not in a bad state according to you and all this fuss is for nothing ? Oh and there isn't a 16% vacancy rate at the bottom end ?

Well, it's taken you two years to respond to that post!

And in what am I wrong?

Two years aviator? I am responding to your posting #35 of 28th October 2007!

Department stores may not dominate shopping in the way they did but they are still very important for a good retail mix. I am not alone in thinking this on this forum. See the many postings on the possibility or not of Selfridge's coming to the Eastgate development, and even a continental department store has been wished for by some.

So (apart from the top Edwardian end about which there is no question) it's not in a bad state according to you and all this fuss is for nothing ? Oh and there isn't a 16% vacancy rate at the bottom end ?

It needs redeveloping as the 'lower' buildings are past their lifetime.

I would guess at a 16% vacancy rate across all retail units in Leeds. So the Market isn't doing worse than the city as a whole.

Two years aviator? I am responding to your posting #35 of 28th October 2007!



Since you insist on labouring the point, I should point out that there is a gap of two years and a day between post 36 and post 37. The post you mention above was from 28 October 2005.

Haha.... a quarrel over years, two years is nothing in the history of time!!! :)

Id like the market not to get redeveloped, i like it as it is... running the risk of food poisoning at every turn!!! It has a traditional Northern city market feel to it, keep its rare charm!!!

The actual offering of stalls etc is fine as far as Im concerned. The shed buildings need replacing though. I'm sure the Edwardian hall could be improved a bit though. Something to allow people to feel the hall as an actual hall, not just another part of the market. How many people actually look up in there? I think the answer is to open up the balcony levels. It could be like a Covent Garden type thing.

Since you insist on labouring the point, I should point out that there is a gap of two years and a day between post 36 and post 37. The post you mention above was from 28 October 2005.

Yes, I do insist on labouring the point. There seems to be a FAULT on the dating system on this forum. For example, I can assure you that I did not write #35 two years ago - I wrote it on 28 October 2007, 17 days ago !

It needs redeveloping as the 'lower' buildings are past their lifetime.

I would guess at a 16% vacancy rate across all retail units in Leeds. So the Market isn't doing worse than the city as a whole.

Not so. The vacancy rate in the Edwardian part of the market is only 3%.
Read a big article in tonight's YEP all about it.

Yes, I do insist on labouring the point. There seems to be a FAULT on the dating system on this forum. For example, I can assure you that I did not write #35 two years ago - I wrote it on 28 October 2007, 17 days ago ! You've probably mentioned similar things in other threads recently, but Aviator is right in what he is saying. The posts before he brought the thread back up are from 2005. Does it really matter though??

You've probably mentioned similar things in other threads recently, but Aviator is right in what he is saying. The posts before he brought the thread back up are from 2005. Does it really matter though??

Yes Aviator IS right and my apologies to him. . It just seemed to move so seamlessly from October 2005 to October 2007. No, daveylad2, it doesn't really matter - though it does show the consistency of my views.

Not so. The vacancy rate in the Edwardian part of the market is only 3%.
Read a big article in tonight's YEP all about it.

Okay, so the Edwardian part of the market has a vacancy rate of 3%.

Do you want to reprise your constant bleating about the market being virtually empty now?

Okay, so the Edwardian part of the market has a vacancy rate of 3%.

Do you want to reprise your constant bleating about the market being virtually empty now?

Did you read yesterday's YEP article Sir Charles? BTW, I am no sheep!

Did you read yesterday's YEP article Sir Charles? BTW, I am no sheep!

No. You sure it wasn't a letter?

No. You sure it wasn't a letter?

Can I dare to suggest that you find out for yourself ?

Can I dare to suggest that you find out for yourself ?

I already have. (http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/features/It39s-stall-change.3486198.jp) What exactly is in that article that we didn't know already?

The temporary 'tin sheds' are past their useful life and need replacing. They are going to be replaced as part of a multi-million pound investment. Vacancy rates are an excellent 3% at the top and a respectable 16% at the bottom. There are 200,000 visitors a weeks.

Hardly the hell-hole you make it out to be, is it?

I already have. (http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/features/It39s-stall-change.3486198.jp) What exactly is in that article that we didn't know already?

The temporary 'tin sheds' are past their useful life and need replacing. They are going to be replaced as part of a multi-million pound investment. Vacancy rates are an excellent 3% at the top and a respectable 16% at the bottom. There are 200,000 visitors a weeks.

Hardly the hell-hole you make it out to be, is it?

So, why did you ask when you had already read the article? Obviously, although you are satisfied with the situation, and the long time it has taken even to come to a decision to recognise that something is amiss with it, lots of other people, besides me, are not. I remember the Kirkgate Market when it was really vibrant and attractive to shop in. I know the overall retail picture has much changed since then, but can't help comparing with other towns/cities which still, in this day and age, have more attractive and apparently successful markets.

So, why did you ask when you had already read the article?

Jesus, you're having a hard time with chronology lately aren't you? When I said I hadn't read the article, I hadn't read the article. By the time of your arsey comeback, I had.

Obviously, although you are satisfied with the situation, and the long time it has taken even to come to a decision to recognise that something is amiss with it, lots of other people, besides me, are not. I remember the Kirkgate Market when it was really vibrant and attractive to shop in. I know the overall retail picture has much changed since then, but can't help comparing with other towns/cities which still, in this day and age, have more attractive and apparently successful markets.

What's the main theme of the traders at the market when they talk about the future? That it doesn't need any massive changes. They are anxious to retain the current atmosphere. With 200,000 people through the door every week, 97% occupancy in the historic sections and 84% occupancy in the 'dingy' parts, and traders who want to keep their place in the market, can you tell me again (and again, and again, and again, no doubt) why you think Kirkgate Market is not successful?

Jesus, you're having a hard time with chronology lately aren't you? When I said I hadn't read the article, I hadn't read the article. By the time of your arsey comeback, I had.



What's the main theme of the traders at the market when they talk about the future? That it doesn't need any massive changes. They are anxious to retain the current atmosphere. With 200,000 people through the door every week, 97% occupancy in the historic sections and 84% occupancy in the 'dingy' parts, and traders who want to keep their place in the market, can you tell me again (and again, and again, and again, no doubt) why you think Kirkgate Market is not successful?

I have to say I am totally with you on this. I do not frequent the market that often, but whenever I do, it is bustling. As with any retail environment, people will always fail and that is usually as their offering is poor or they are not competitive.

The more people move to the city, the more successful the market will become and the stores selling tat will disappear to be replaced by better stalls, encouraging more people.

The market may still be perceived as 'bottom end', but as it is refurbed and pulls its socks up it will encourage more punters and in turn more entreprenuerial start ups will move here and the M&S legacy will live on.

Jesus, you're having a hard time with chronology lately aren't you? When I said I hadn't read the article, I hadn't read the article. By the time of your arsey comeback, I had.

What's the main theme of the traders at the market when they talk about the future? That it doesn't need any massive changes. They are anxious to retain the current atmosphere. With 200,000 people through the door every week, 97% occupancy in the historic sections and 84% occupancy in the 'dingy' parts, and traders who want to keep their place in the market, can you tell me again (and again, and again, and again, no doubt) why you think Kirkgate Market is not successful?

OK,to use your colourful phrase, another 'arsey comeback' from me and my last on this subject - as you evidently can't abide opinions which differ from your own. Seeing that you are content (as you seem to be saying ad nauseam) with the current glorious success of the market, how do you account for all those people who obviously aren't ? BTW, I take it you shop there regularly?

OK,to use your colourful phrase, another 'arsey comeback' from me and my last on this subject - as you evidently can't abide opinions which differ from your own. Seeing that you are content (as you seem to be saying ad nauseam) with the current glorious success of the market, how do you account for all those people who obviously aren't ? BTW, I take it you shop there regularly?

I have no problem with other people's opinions, Fred, but I will argue strongly when I think they are wrong. You never miss an opportunity to carp on about your perception that the market is unsuccessful and rundown, so don't start crying when I put the opposing view.

As for accounting for 'all those people' who share your view of the market: first, find them for me. I've got you and some crayon-holders who write to the YEP. That's hardly a sizeable group. I can't account for why you hold this opinion, but I can point to the facts: 200,000 weekly shoppers, 80-90% occupancy rates, a forthcoming multi-million pound investment. To any sensible person, that's a good position.

Fred, where exactly are these thriving and succesful markets that put Leeds' to shame?

You were waxing lyrical about Huddersfield not so long ago. I never had you down as a mobile accessories and second hand video tape man

(although they do have an excellent West Indian food stall)

more pointless dialogue from our resident Statler and Waldorf

more pointless dialogue from our resident Statler and Waldorf

Statler and Waldorf - two grumpy old characters ?

Well suppose I am old and maybe grumpy at times. Don't know about Sir Charles - you will have to ask him.

Statler and Waldorf - two grumpy old characters ?

Not met these two before? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/8b/StatlerAndWaldorf.jpg/250px-StatlerAndWaldorf.jpg

I have no problem with other people's opinions, Fred, but I will argue strongly when I think they are wrong. You never miss an opportunity to carp on about your perception that the market is unsuccessful and rundown, so don't start crying when I put the opposing view.

As for accounting for 'all those people' who share your view of the market: first, find them for me. I've got you and some crayon-holders who write to the YEP. That's hardly a sizeable group. I can't account for why you hold this opinion, but I can point to the facts: 200,000 weekly shoppers, 80-90% occupancy rates, a forthcoming multi-million pound investment. To any sensible person, that's a good position.

Sir C it is quite clearly run down,most of the stalls (in the shed and in the outdoor)sell tat,and whats worse its crappy tat.

Not sure how old you are but i would assume younger than Fred2.
If so then you may not be able to take in the fact that the market was at one time THE place to shop fo everything in Leeds (if you were from a working family),and what is left is a shadow of what it once was.

It really was a gem,whereas now it looks tired and will not fit in well with the new Eastgate quarter in its current guise.

You are both correct to a degree,the market still does well but not as well as it used to.
Its time for it to move on,find new direction or it will,despite whatever money we throw at it now,die a long slow and lingering death which will see its complete removal from the city centre forever.
Leonardhenry is right,i cant see anywhere else where a market in the centre thrives(except for the various suburbs of London) so why not make Leeds the exception and come to a happy but meaningful middle ground solution.

The tin shed was always only ever a temporary measure and the current outdoor market is now pants,lets give it a kick up the arse,get rid of the Tat stalls and bring in along side the quality small family retailers,some of the more "Middle Class" vendors selling Organic/home produced wares(christ i never thought i would hear myself say something like this) that appeal to the new inhabitants of Leeds city centre.
Quarry Hill and the Bank are gone so the old demands have too,we have to move on,but still retain links with the past,its called evolution (Man!).

Why dont you both have a look at this,smoogie_si has some great ideas,reflected in this article
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...lly/article.do

No but I shall check out Secret Leeds, sounds intruiging!



Stall, market, I see what you did there! ;)

Is that you asking about maps on secret Leeds?

I can't be bothered repeating myself, trawl back through the posts for the real detail (on a long forgotten thread if you can be arsed) ...........but in a nutshell I think the market suffers from competition from the likes of Primark and TK Maxx, something it's never had to deal with before. Solution, trash the 70's stalls, move the occupiers of the tat to the Merrion Market, build a nice hall for selling food and get on with it. The loss of the 70's section of the market is no big deal, the Edwardian market is entirely different, a true gem for the North of England, let alone Leeds.
Fred, we've disagreed about this before but I'll pass this little story on. I was at Fish Row today, asked how things were going, was told this week had been the busiest (for their stall) for 7 years. Make of that what you will.

Is that you asking about maps on secret Leeds?

No mate, not me. Just been having a look at Secret Leeds though and it's fascinating, will have a good trawl through when I get some more time.

more pointless dialogue from our resident Statler and Waldorf

:lol:

Sir C, is it necessary to be so consistently aggressive and confrontational in your posts? I don't agree with some forumers views however I would like to think that I along with most other forumers can disagree with an opinion without being so arsey about it.

I can't be bothered repeating myself, trawl back through the posts for the real detail (on a long forgotten thread if you can be arsed) ...........but in a nutshell I think the market suffers from competition from the likes of Primark and TK Maxx, something it's never had to deal with before.

Yes absolutely, times have moved on and the traditional markets are gradually dying for the exact reason that you say. They will never be able to compete with the budget chain stores on price so need to differentiate themselves.

I don't feel the markets are in decline either, but then again, i don't shop there regularly. Even so, to lose the markets as the heart of working class retail in Leeds would be disappoiting given the history of the place. I'd feel slightly uncomfortable about the symbolism of the markets being 'gentrified' for the Harvey Nichols market.

I don't feel the markets are in decline either, but then again, i don't shop there regularly. Even so, to lose the markets as the heart of working class retail in Leeds would be disappoiting given the history of the place. I'd feel slightly uncomfortable about the symbolism of the markets being 'gentrified' for the Harvey Nichols market.

Who's talking about the HN market? If anything i'd imagine the average user of Harvey Nicks wouldn't be seen dead in ANY market unless it's a "farmers" market. Just try and get vendors that sell stuff of some kind of interest to the entire city, it's not that hard.

I wasn't sure whether to paste this YEP piece here or on the retail thread but I reckon it could have an impact on the market and its proposed redevelopment:


Stallholders evicted from Leeds Corn Exchange


Tenants in the Leeds Corn Exchange shopping centre are being kicked out so it can be turned into a food emporium.

By Debbie Leigh

Tenants in the Leeds Corn Exchange shopping centre are being kicked out so it can be turned into a food emporium.

They only found out about the shocking changes this morning (tues) when a letter landed on their doormats revealing the owners' plans for the new year.

The Corn Exchange was originally built for food trading nearly 150 years ago, and its owners have decided it's time to ditch the independent stalls - which have sold everything from cards to clothing and jewellery for the past 17 years - and embrace its heritage.

The historic Grade I listed building has undergone a massively disruptive £1.5million refurbishment project over the past five months which traders were up in arms over as it drove away even more of their declining trade.

Claire Roe, owner of Grin clothing store which has been successfully trading for over 15 years in the centre, said she was horrified by this morning's announcement and believed every other trader shared her feelings.

She told the Yorkshire Evening Post: "I think they're ruining a beautiful building that's been a shopping centre for 20 years.

"That's my opinion and everybody else's opinion. We'd been told it was going to be a shopping centre and the work was being done to make it better.

"We carried on in terrible conditions, only for them to say at the end of it, 'this is what's happening'."

She added: "We all knew something was happening because of how they've been treating us. They've definitely not been fair to any of us."

The building's owners Zurich Assurance want to turn it into a gourmand's paradise which they hope will attract shoppers from across the region.

The plans include opening a high-profile restauarant on the ground floor, with an array of premium local, national and international produce on sale on the first floor and units selling related non-food goods such as kitchen gadgets and utensils on the upper floor.

A spokeswoman for Phoenix Beard, which manages the centre on behalf of Threadneedle Properties – the property arm of Zurich - said they would be talking to remaining tenants to work out how they could fit them in to the new-style venue.

But for shops selling clothing and jewellery, any agreement seems unlikely.

Adrian Johnson of Central Retail, which will market the venue to potential tenants, said: "This is an exciting prospect, not just for the rejuvenation of Leeds Corn Exchange, but also for the people of Leeds who will benefit from a central destination for premium dining, food and drink.

"The scheme will serve a very large and diverse regional customer profile, drawing from neighbouring towns and cities as well as the thousands of people that actually live in the city centre.

"Leeds has become a major success story and a city with leading European status certainly deserves a world class food centre."

Talks are already under way with potential operators, including "a number of branded restaurant occupiers".

Traders have long feared for their future since Zurich Assurance bought the stunning venue.

They claimed businesses were being kicked out because they did not fit in with the owners' vision of the shopping centre in the future.


I have to say that I'm in a quandary about this piece of news. I love the idea that we might finally get the kind of specialist food and drink suppliers that I think we need in Leeds.

But, to see existing tenants kicked out of the Corn Exchange because they don't fit the profile the centre's owners want to create seems incredibly harsh. And I'm not sure that there would be the same buzz that you get from wandering around the Corn Exchange on a Saturday afternoon.

If this is true, I seriously hope the shops in there get space in the city elsewhere- it would be a disaster if they didn't. The CornX is the main attraction for many young people in Leeds and the region, and has been referred to as the Covent Garden of the North. It could kickstart the regeneration of the exchange quarter and Kirkgate.

If this is true, I seriously hope the shops in there get space in the city elsewhere- it would be a disaster if they didn't. The CornX is the main attraction for many young people in Leeds and the region, and has been referred to as the Covent Garden of the North. It could kickstart the regeneration of the exchange quarter and Kirkgate.

Well there's plenty of empty stalls in the Market.

I thought they could move into the market at first, but can it really be expected for brands like Ark, Grin and Exit to move into the market? If the Edwardian hall is improved and brought up to CornX standards, it could be like Covent Garden and have these brands in them. The current stalls would move into the improved eastern halls ideally. That's how it could work...

oh no we dont all the EMOs and goths of this world congregating around the market like they do corn exchange! scum of the earth in my opinion!!

Meh- they're not as bad as chavs. And its mainly the shops around the CornX that attract them, rather than the ones inside. Shops like Ark, Exit, Grin are well known brands and ones that are good to have in cities; they would be good in an improved market, and are not the shops that attract emo's. When tattoo parlours start opening in the market, thats what will attract them.

[QUOTE=Leeds No.1;16600226] the Covent Garden of the North.QUOTE]

I loathe these 'of the North' tags. Leeds is Leeds is Leeds, we don't need to justify our existence by claiming to provide cheap rip-offs of everything down South. Covent Garden is rubbish anyway.

I loathe these 'of the North' tags. Leeds is Leeds is Leeds, we don't need to justify our existence by claiming to provide cheap rip-offs of everything down South. Covent Garden is rubbish anyway.I must say I was a bit disappointed when I went down there earlier this year. I was good, but nothing special. Perhaps I was looking in the wrong places.

Meh- they're not as bad as chavs. And its mainly the shops around the CornX that attract them, rather than the ones inside. Shops like Ark, Exit, Grin are well known brands and ones that are good to have in cities; they would be good in an improved market, and are not the shops that attract emo's. When tattoo parlours start opening in the market, thats what will attract them.

Why would a tattoo parlour attract emos? What a bizarre thing to say!

Im just using it as one example of the many types of shops that attract emos. They don't really go inside the CornX that much, just congregate outside it.

[QUOTE=Leeds No.1;16600226] the Covent Garden of the North.QUOTE]

I loathe these 'of the North' tags. Leeds is Leeds is Leeds, we don't need to justify our existence by claiming to provide cheap rip-offs of everything down South. Covent Garden is rubbish anyway.

boo hiss, covent garden is fantastic, a blueprint for these kind of wonderful atmospheric shopping conversions. It worked a treat in Boston with Faneuil Hall and Quincy Market as well.

That post makes me look as if I said I don't like Covent Garden, when actually it was me who said it could be like Covent Garden, which I like very much.

I just spotted this from the planning notes of the Civic Trust's October newsletter:


Leeds City Markets
The Civic Architect, John Thorp, gave the Committee a presentation on the future of the market, highlighting concerns with the structure of the ‘new’ buildings erected in 1976 and 1981. The Council is committed to the market and plans showed redevelopment of these recent sections to provide both covered and open trading areas, with a ring of new buildings to help fund the work. We welcomed these initial concepts.


Obviously, there's no detail as yet but the idea of new build around the market confirms my suspicion that the City Council is looking at the options of reducing the overall area of the market by building on part of the site.

I'm quite disappointed about this decision to change the Corn Exchange. It had a pretty good atmosphere and I can't say how it'd work as a food court, especially in the way it might limit your ability to just wander around and browse. Admittedly I only ever went to Sugar Lump to get a few, er, things, but it seemed an alright space even though most of the clothes just boggled my brain much like most of Leeds City Centre, I'm not a good clothes shopper. I always felt Bradford could do with one of these, perhaps in Eastbrook Hall on Leeds Road instead of the apartments they're creating there (not to mention the horribly out of place cheap red brick piles of shit they've put up there). Alternatively they could make one based around Forster Square Station alongside a rebuild of the train station, using the railway arches which may already be in part a plan, though how well one would succeed in Bradford I really don't know.

Anyway, some folk have already created a facebook group against the plans, which is already 1,811 strong, I think I might join. This isn't fair.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=5799994302&ref=nf

They're having a petition inside the centre, but should really get an online one underway.

It looks a bit classier, more Victoria Quarter than Affleck's Palace, but some of the atmosphere has gone. May i propose businesses like Grin and Ark move to a new building on the site of the existing Crown Street car park, thereby revitalising the Kirkagte area Fred2, and others loathe so much.

The Forum in Sheffield is abou the same size as this site.



http://farm1.static.flickr.com/177/381576235_9c35ebb343.jpg?v=0



http://farm1.static.flickr.com/171/414508264_5b8afe3ba1_b.jpg

Yes. If the CornX goes the way it looks it will, then absolutely. It would be a huge loss if Grin, Ark, Exit etc were lost from Leeds. To many people, the CornX IS Leeds- thats why they come!

Maybe it was the goths that led to the CornX decline. They put off a lot of non goths from shopping there, and that meant the only customers were 14 year old goths spending their pocket money...

Re the market - I guess the 'ring of buildings' will just be a modern take on the original frontage of the market - shop units facing on to the street with space above for office/apartments...
I always wondered why there are no stalls on that huge area between the multi storey car park and the bus station... Would help attract people in.

Re the market - I guess the 'ring of buildings' will just be a modern take on the original frontage of the market - shop units facing on to the street with space above for office/apartments...

From what I've seen I think it's more about getrting rid of the "temporary" market buildings completely, refurbing (and replacing the missing) 1900s blockshops, putting the covered markets under the buidings to be built around the edge in a kind of u shape (including the open market bit) and then having the open market in a square in the centre, rather than at the back. All looked quite nice IMHO.

From what I've seen I think it's more about getrting rid of the "temporary" market buildings completely, refurbing (and replacing the missing) 1900s blockshops, putting the covered markets under the buidings to be built around the edge in a kind of u shape (including the open market bit) and then having the open market in a square in the centre, rather than at the back. All looked quite nice IMHO.

That's what i imagined. A nicley landscaped square would be another feather in John Thorp's cap.
Any news on the architects would be appreciated.

Any news on the architects would be appreciated.

Unfortunatley, it's far too early for that. As I understand, this is the start of the process - setting the principle of the regeneration of the market, trying to identify a commercial scheme that could pay for the works needed and starting the ball rolling in terms of finding partners to help pay for it. I would imagine it will take a year ot two before they get to appointing architects stage.

From what I've seen I think it's more about getrting rid of the "temporary" market buildings completely, refurbing (and replacing the missing) 1900s blockshops, putting the covered markets under the buidings to be built around the edge in a kind of u shape (including the open market bit) and then having the open market in a square in the centre, rather than at the back. All looked quite nice IMHO.


This consultation document (http://www.leeds.gov.uk/moderngov/Published/C00000102/M00002906/AI00010165/KirkgateMarketPublicConsultationdocument2300ct.pdf) is very interesting. As well as providing some history of the market's development, it sets out the opportunities for making the most of the space including the replacement of the rather toytown buildings along George Street.

An added bonus is a series of renders to indicate how it might look.

This consultation document (http://www.leeds.gov.uk/moderngov/Published/C00000102/M00002906/AI00010165/KirkgateMarketPublicConsultationdocument2300ct.pdf) is very interesting. As well as providing some history of the market's development, it sets out the opportunities for making the most of the space including the replacement of the rather toytown buildings along George Street.

An added bonus is a series of renders to indicate how it might look.

An interesting document, well spotted.

All seems to make sense to me, should help integrate the market as much as possible to the new Eastgate/Harewood Qtr - though the arcitecture will need to be of the same standard...

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/325/leedskirkgatemarketqr6.jpg

Very interesting document. Hope it is the start of something special for this end of town and when it gets done it should surely prove to be something special for Leeds City Centre which would be good if they enclose the bottom end of the market with a great big glass roof. Certainly good that they aim to give city like density as opposed to the suburban look that the bottom end of the market is at present and I guess enclosing it all indoors would help traders with an everything under one roof as I guess poor weather could adveresley affect the outdoor shops. Do they have any time frame as to when this refit would start as well as any sort of new stores such as stores from the Corn Ex or more world foods?

Trouble at the market (from today's YEP):


Traders angry at £1.5m market profit

By Peter Lazenby

LEEDS City Council is making £1.5m a year profit out of the city's Kirkgate market – while traders warn of financial problems and stalls stand empty.
Traders say rent, rates and increasing energy bills are pushing more and more to the brink.

The YEP used the Freedom of Information Act to obtain figures that show the indoor market costs the council £3,064,000 to run, and it generates income of £4,228,000.

The outdoor market costs £357,000 and brings in £750,000. The total profit is £1,517,000. On top of rent and service charges, traders also pay business rates, not included in the profits.

Leeds City Council said that over the last 15 years it has invested £12m in the market and that the number of vacant stalls and shops had fallen.

Traders reacted angrily to news of the levels of profit. Colin Coultas of Tony Banks grocery in the indoor market said: "All I know is that if they charged a different rent they could fill the units. I can remember when there were no empty units.

"The last big rent increase was about 90 per cent. It used to be one of the best markets in Britain – probably the best."

Michael Gaynor of Malcolm Michael butchers said: "The rent and service charges are about £320 a week and the business rates are about £95 so that's £415 a week. They are screwing us."

A cafe off butcher row which had once been a thriving business closed overnight recently, costing four jobs. In some sections four properties in a row are empty and to let. Leeds Pottery is to close shortly.

One trader who did not want to be named said: "If they lowered the rents the people of Leeds would get a better bargain. It is £1,000 a month and it is too much."

Other traders said they dare not talk to the YEP because of fear of reprisals. Mr Gaynor said he had been summoned to a meeting with market
management after speaking to the YEP some weeks ago.

One trader sang the praises of the council and market management. "They do a fantastic job," said Wazim Mir who has two clothing stalls in the indoor market.

But young butcher John Smith said: "I have worked for three butchers here and two of them have closed."

Leo Burke, who has been on butcher row for 20 years, said: "I pay £1,700 a month for rent, rates and service charge. It is astronomical."

A council spokesman said: "We will continue to invest heavily to keep the market healthy and vibrant. Profits go into a central pot to help the council provide a range of services and keep council taxes low. However, it would be inaccurate to say this shows a lack of commitment to the market.

"Before Christmas, the number of vacant stalls decreased with fewer than 10 per cent unoccupied – a similar figure to previous years. In Leeds city centre as a whole, the level of unoccupied premises is nearer 14 per cent.

“We are offering substantial rent discounts to [traders] wishing to utilise empty stalls.”

He said the number of visitors to the marked had risen by 10,000 in two years.

Shame about the rents yes, but if they are making a profit and planning to renovate the market massively as we know, then I don't think its a problem. If the profit is for good use in the long term...

It a big net proffit
£4,978,000- Income
£3,421,000- Costs
£1,557,000- NETT Profit

31.3 % is a big margin
If busineses supply ing the council made that sort of nett margin out of the council's work they would be complaining that they were being riped off and the rate payer's would not be happy as well.

If tesco or other big companies made that sort of profit there would be demands from councilors for a inquiry.

Consultation on Kirkgate Market.

http://www.leeds.gov.uk/Council_and_democracy/Consultations/Consultation_on_plans_to_redevelop_Leeds_Kirkgate_Market.aspx

http://www.leeds.gov.uk/files/Internet2007/2008/week5/inter__eb98d7be-ec2e-481e-b97e-8ffa5c8b8221_42cba065-a02b-4f61-aea7-45b1155ed14d.pdf

The plans look very good! :)

More from the YEP on the ongoing soap opera that is the Corn Exchange:


Leeds's Corn Exchange prepares for food festival

By Staff Copy

Leeds's Corn Exchange has taken the next step in its bid to become a enticing food destination – by sponsoring the first ever Taste of Leeds Festival.

The gastronomic festival is one of seven being organised by Channel 4 across the UK,with the Leeds event being held in Millennium Square from June 5 to June 8.

The event will showcase the best of Yorkshire produce, while guests can also look forward to demonstrations by some of the country's favourite chefs, wine tasting, and opportunities to sample menus from restaurants including, Anthony's, Harvey Nichols Fourth Floor, El Gato Negro, The Orchid Restaurant, Casa Mia Grande, Malmaison and Room.

There are now only four shops left in the Corn Exchange, which recently underwent a £1.5m refurbishment. Central Retail, principal agent for the Corn Exchange, is negotiating with potential tenants to turn it into an upmarket food emporium.

For tickets for the food festival ring 0871 230 5581 or visit: www.channel4.com/taste

Tickets are £12, £25 and £40.

Next week's meeting of the city's Executive Board will consider a report on the outcome of the market development strategy consultation. The preferred option seems to be entering into an agreement with the Leeds Partnership (Hammerson's and Town Centre Securities) to redevelop the eastern part of the market site.

See here (http://www.leeds.gov.uk/moderngov/Published/C00000102/M00003345/AI00013234/$KirkgateMktReport15May.docA.ps.pdf) for a link to the report.

More from the markets. As I wrote above, the Council has entered into an agreement with the Leeds partnership to further the redevelopment of the market. This report (http://democracy.leeds.gov.uk/mgConvert2PDF.asp?ID=21559) is to be considered next week at the meeting of the City Centre Plans Panel. Briefly, the idea is the demolish the more recent extensions, leaving the original 19th century part and the main 1904 block facing Vicar Lane. A curved, glazed roof is proposed running from the back of the 1904 block over the 1875 block shops until it connects with a new market hall. Beyond that will lie the open market.

In addition, four buildings are proposed. At 4-6 storeys in height, they will be a mixture of retail at ground floor level, with office use and some residential accommodation. Three of them will run along George Street as far as the entrance to the coach station. The fourth will be to the south of the open air market.

Clearly, this implies a reduction in the overall size of the market, though this might be mitigated by the proposal to reopen the upper lavel of the 1904 market hall to general use.

Aviator. The curved glazed roof in the artist's impression is only indicative of what could be achieved. Cost, method of dovetailing with the perimeter buildings, and mitigating the effects of the sun in summer will all go towards determining the final solution.

Aviator. The curved glazed roof in the artist's impression is only indicative of what could be achieved. Cost, method of dovetailing with the perimeter buildings, and mitigating the effects of the sun in summer will all go towards determining the final solution.


Thanks but I wasn't thinking of the indicative renders published last year. I was quoting from the report that's going to next week's Plans Panel meeting:


4.2 The principal change to the 1904 building and block shops within the large market hall behind, is the introduction of a new roof extending from the back of the 1904 building over the block shops. This roof will have a large glass barrel vaulted roof to the centre of the market hall with stressed fabric roof to either side. The architects are currently examining the potential for providing a leisure use on a mezzanine floor within the glass roof that could be accessed from the high level walkway within the 1904 building. It is hoped that new operational space in the upper areas will help bring the walkway in the 1904 building back into daily public use. This would require breaking through parts of the existing glaze brick wall of the 1904 building to create openings to provide access from the 1904 building into the new roof space.

The report mentions 'stressed fabric' in several places. Does this mean that white stuff that you get at retail parks like Freeport? http://www.flickr.com/photos/oliversphotos/1808937577/

Could be the white stuff at Freeport. It could also be ETFE as per Eden Project or atrium at Bridgewater Place.

Could be the white stuff at Freeport. It could also be ETFE as per Eden Project or atrium at Bridgewater Place.

Should sound nice in the heavy rain !, Cos I know here at BWP when there is a downpour it sounds like a 747 taking off !

I thought that. I have reservavtions over this. Stressed fabric as a roof seems to be a bit 'retail park like'. This end of town needs some good quality solid structures to improve the urban fabric of the city in this area, that is all rather disjointed by the road network, bus station and open market.

I have reservavtions over this. Stressed fabric as a roof seems to be a bit 'retail park like'.

What about the Millennium Dome/O2 Arena? :dunno:

Most materials used well can look good, used badly they look crap.

There's claim's of neglect at Leeds's Kirkgate Market. http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/SLIDESHOW-Neglect-claim-over-historic.5188284.jp

SLIDESHOW: Neglect claim over historic Leeds market

http://editorial.jpress.co.uk/web/Upload/LEED//TH1_214200957Kirkgate4kirkgate.jpg
Video
See our slideshow reportKirkgate Market

« Previous « PreviousNext » Next »View GalleryADVERTISEMENTPublished Date:
21 April 2009
By David Marsh
Municipal Reporter
HISTORIC Kirkgate Market in Leeds is at the centre of a political row over claims it is being badly neglected by the council.
The landmark building has long been hailed as one of the jewels in the city's crown, but now the Liberal Democrat-Conservative-controlled council has been accused of not doing enough to support the market and its traders.

Labour councillors say not enough is being done to attract new visitors and businesses to the market, which has about 600 stalls.

They say that despite making a profit of about £1.5m a year, the market has had its annual promotional budget slashed from £105,000 to £70,000.

Coun Keith Wakefield, the council's Labour group leader, said: "I am stunned, especially in these difficult times, how little the council is doing to support traders and attract new businesses and visitors to Leeds Kirkgate Market.

What are your views on this story? Click here to have your say.

"They have decided to implement a heavy-handed style of management and cut the market's promotional budget.

"This is disgraceful when you consider they are financing pet projects such as their civic newspaper to the tune of £185,000 a year. We need to put an end to this neglect, and put in place at the council a dynamic strategy."

Coun Wakefield plans to raise the issue at Wednesday's meeting of the full council.

The council has outlined proposals to redevelop a large area of the market and Coun Barry Anderson (Con, Adel and Wharfedale) said: "This administration is fully committed to the future of Kirkgate Market. It is one of the city's key landmarks and Coun Wakefield will be fully aware of our extensive £70m plans to redevelop it.

"It is not just the building that we are committed to, we also value the traders, that is why we have launched an initiative to help traders occupy vacant stalls by offering discounted rates."


Well surely Leeds Market is surely one of Leeds's assets and should certainly be promoted to a greater extent as opposed to slowly decline as highlighted by Fred2 and this article. I certainly agree that stuff such as the About Leeds propaganda newspaper should be axed in favour of funding more worthwhile schemes (although wasn't it Labour which launched that About Leeds newspaper when they were in power of LCC).

When exactly will the mooted plans to redevelop the market take place. I presume it is yet another scheme which can't get any backing in the current climate although it seems like the council don't want to admit it.

I don't think it needs promoting; everyone in the city and region knows about it and it's not like people would travel a long distance just to visit the market. It just needs money invested in the building and support for the businesses.

I don't think it needs promoting; everyone in the city and region knows about it and it's not like people would travel a long distance just to visit the market. It just needs money invested in the building and support for the businesses.

I agree. I also think that Wakefield talks a load of rubbish about the Civic Paper (who labour introduced).

There's claim's of neglect at Leeds's Kirkgate Market.
Well surely Leeds Market is surely one of Leeds's assets and should certainly be promoted to a greater extent as opposed to slowly decline as highlighted by Fred2 and this article.

Well, well. So someone remembers me and my complaints about the Market!
That was about 18 months ago and I was more or less howled down and most other posters were quite satisfied with it as it was. Since then it has only deteriorated further with more and more empty stalls and no real idea what is planned in the near future. :ohno:

More gloomy news on the situation at the market, courtesy of the YEP:


'Managers must go' say irate Leeds market traders

Published Date: 20 August 2009

By Debbie Leigh

TRADERS in Leeds's Victorian Kirkgate Market have passed a vote of no confidence in its management, claiming they are running it into the ground. Stallholders in the building, the largest indoor market in Europe, say it is a dilapidated disgrace and long-standing businesses are failing because of mismanagement.

After finding out Leeds City Council had not taken part in a Government study on UK markets, Cliff and Michelle Hocken, of Hayes Seafood, confronted city development director Jean Dent with the "unanimous" decision. They told her they wanted the existing managers removed and a new team installed.

Mrs Hocken said: "It's a good market with good people in and it could be made to be much more profitable for the city centre of Leeds."

She added: "The council seems to think it's being run successfully and everything is hunky dory...but if that was the case we wouldn't be in the mess that we are in."

Liz Laughton, of R Bethell fishmongers – which has been in the market almost 100 years – said traders felt they had no alternative. Traders said rents and rates were too high, with some market units costing more than high street stores.

Mr Hocken said the rent per square foot was the same as for luxury store Harvey Nichols and the rest of the upmarket Victoria Quarter and that meant they were unable to provide customers with the low prices they expected.

They said there were numerous other problems, including:
* Lack of investment in the building:
* Massively reduced footfall;
* Poor business decisions, such as the refusal to reduce rent for existing tenants, then offering new tenants a 90 per cent reduction.

The Government study found that nationwide: "More often than not market decline can be attributed, at least in part, to a lack of investment and/or operator expertise from the responsible council".

Mrs Hocken said: "The report screams out the problems with Leeds but no one seems to want to do anything."

The Hockens became the unofficial voice of the traders after meeting Prime Minister Gordon Brown on his visit to Leeds last month. Ms Dent was expected to respond to the traders' vote of no confidence by today.

See Friday's Yorkshire Evening Post for more about the traders' plight and their individual stories.

A Leeds City Council spokeswoman said: "The market has fewer empty units than at this time last year. We are always willing to review our operations and look forward to further constructive dialogue with the tenants."

By coincidence, I was talking to one of the stallholders at last Sunday's farmers' market about the dramatic falling of in the number of stalls. I'm only talking, by the way, of the one on the third Sunday of the month; the market held on the first Sunday is still doing well. Anyway, this stallholder was criticising the council for not doing enough to promote the farmers' markets in general or the more specialist events which sometimes happen as a one-off. How many people knew, for example, of the Asian market held here at the end of June or of the French market which took place a few weeks earlier?

Things like farmers markets will definitely bring in the AB demographic, but I've never seen any publicity at all.

A former stallholder was ranting on the bus about the decline of the market and the suspicion that the council 'have plans' for it. Whatever the conspiracy theories, we've already lost the Corn Exchange, and it would be an even bigger disaster if the markets, the beating heart of Leeds, are 'gentrified'.



1978

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3577/3365046763_a04381f491_o.jpg

So what stage is the redevelopment at? It seems to be making little or no progress with news only popping up now and then and not leading to anything.

Perhaps the rents have increased to help fund the revamping. I don't think the council intend it to be a gentrifcation at all. The market will be slightly downsized (to make way for NGT if nothing else- but that's minimal), but the plans I saw included rebuilding a lost block shop, demolishing the suburban style buildings on the north side and creating a frontage that would compliment the Harewood Quarter. A large simple glass roof would span from this frontage to the southern frontage.

I also haven't seen any publicity for the farmers market.

So what stage is the redevelopment at? It seems to be making little or no progress with news only popping up now and then and not leading to anything.

Perhaps the rents have increased to help fund the revamping. I don't think the council intend it to be a gentrifcation at all. The market will be slightly downsized (to make way for NGT if nothing else- but that's minimal), but the plans I saw included rebuilding a lost block shop, demolishing the suburban style buildings on the north side and creating a frontage that would compliment the Harewood Quarter. A large simple glass roof would span from this frontage to the southern frontage.

I also haven't seen any publicity for the farmers market.

Or the rents could have risen to run the market down (ala Granary Wharf or the Corn Exchange)? :ohno:

I agree that Kirkgate Market is one of those assets for Leeds which really does need revitalising as opposed to running down. Surely there should have been more noise by now of what exactly is planned for the market (consdiering this scheme was first announced in 2005, with other plans to revitalise Leeds market dating back to the 1980s as shown on the first page of this thread) to revitalise it as a strong part of Leeds's retail in the future as it has certainly been on a slow decline for some years now and surely it should try to attract a broader range of the population of Leeds if it is to succeed?

i sayremove all the traders to a new purpose built market area somewhere else in the city around eastgate, then rennovate the building, which looks very similar to the harrods building in london, then stick a flagship prestigious department store in place :nuts: Harrods North

ooops.

already been thought of

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/rod-mcphee/Rod-McPhee-In-the-market.5208839.jp

I like this idea.. Leeds Markets would certainly provide one showstopping depatment store. Harrods or Selfridges would obviously be the preffered. Definately big enough for Harrods, maybe too big for a Selfridges, but they could easily split the land. And it would tie into the Eastgate scheme alot better than the current redevelopment of the outside markets to provide Leeds once again with its prestigious name. I mean the market is basically full of phone shops and fake clothing stores these days anyway!

I like this idea.. Leeds Markets would certainly provide one showstopping depatment store. Harrods or Selfridges would obviously be the preffered. Definately big enough for Harrods, maybe too big for a Selfridges, but they could easily split the land. And it would tie into the Eastgate scheme alot better than the current redevelopment of the outside markets to provide Leeds once again with its prestigious name. I mean the market is basically full of phone shops and fake clothing stores these days anyway!


It would make a horrible gesture for the markets, the whole reason for Leeds' existence, to become a Selfridges that most people in the city wouldn't be able to afford to shop in. It would be like those places in China where they evict local communities, demolish historic organic communities and stick a huge shopping mall in its place to attract 'tourism'.

It would make a horrible gesture for the markets, the whole reason for Leeds' existence, to become a Selfridges that most people in the city wouldn't be able to afford to shop in. It would be like those places in China where they evict local communities, demolish historic organic communities and stick a huge shopping mall in its place to attract 'tourism'.

Are you referring to Xintiandi in Shanghai? I went there earlier this year, bit of a soulless place full of upmarket restaurants and designer boutiques in redeveloped/rebuilt traditional chinese houses.

Are you referring to Xintiandi in Shanghai?

Probably, although apparently the practice is quite common.

A 3,000 year old civilisation reduced to a Starbucks.

http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/02/44/88/starbucks-at-xintiandi.jpg

I agree with di Livio that it would be dreadful for the old part of the market to become a department store. Apart from any other considerations, the interior would have to be destroyed to accommodate the requirements of the new store.

It seems that the council's preferred way forward makes the most sense, ie to reduce the size of the market overall, demolish the unworthy additions at the back, and concentrate the stalls in the glorious old buildings. I'm not sure that alienating the present stallholders is the best way to achieve this end.

And the weary saga continues:


Leeds Kirkgate Market: Traders in crisis talks

Published Date: 22 October 2009

By Debbie Leigh

Around 130 Leeds traders turned out for a heated debate with the council over the future of Kirkgate Market. The local authority was told by a business expert to "start to manage it like a business".

Frustrated stallholders called for the meeting in a bid to save their livelihoods, claiming lack of investment, poor management and high rents were driving their businesses into the ground. They hauled Leeds City Council and market managers over the coals during the two-hour session at Leeds Marriott Hotel, angrily grilling them about why the historic gem has been allowed to fall into such disrepair.

Business development worker Joanne Williams, who spoke on behalf of the disgruntled tenants, said problems there included falling footfall inefficient maintenance, empty units, imbalance of trades, high rents, management issues and neglect of the building. She called for the council to review the management, consider retraining them and "start to manage it like a business".

She added: "A lot of these issues would not have dragged on this long in a private sector company because it would have gone under."

In August traders passed a vote of no confidence in the management and called on the council to replace them. Jean Dent, director of city development, has now promised to consider reducing rents. She also pledged to work with traders, hold regular meetings with them and seek advice from successful markets such as Halifax and Dewsbury.

But Michelle Hocken, from Hayes Seafood, who with husband Cliff has led the campaign for change, criticised the council for dragging its feet. She said: "We came to you in May, now we are in October and people are going out of business."

One furious trader shouted: "People in this hall haven't got the amount of time you're talking about. It will all go down like a deck of cards." The market has 420 units, with rents ranging from £30 per square foot to £55, although dozens are empty.

Ken Harris, of Englands Lowest Prices, said: "I've been there 18 months and not seen a lick of paint.

"Why doesn't the council pay to have the stalls done up and make it
more attractive?"

Another trader, who has been there 22 years, said: "We are not making any money. It's purely due to rent increases."

Ms Williams said the traders were trying to improve the situation, negotiating with NCP for cheaper parking for traders and discounts for market shoppers and consulting Rosie Winterton, Local Government Minister, who has promised to "champion the traditional market".

Barry Anderson, council lead member for development and regeneration, said there was "only a finite budget available". Paul Brook, the council's chief asset management officer, said the authority had introduced various initiatives to help traders such as the option to take on an adjacent stall at 10 per cent of the standard fee.

Ms Dent said: "Leeds Kirkgate Market is a really important part of life here in Leeds and in the city centre.

"We know there are big challenges but I would like to hope we can start from today with a much more partnership approach."

On a slightly brighter note, I'm told that the former baker at the Anthony's bread shop in the Corn Exchange has left to set up a stall in the market. I think I'll pop down at lunchtime to check it out.

If anything happens with the market, LCC need to improve the car park first... it's a disgrace that car park, takes hours to get out, and costs a fortune to park on what i'd describe as waste land...

I work in the offices above the meerket so use this car park a lot....

If anything happens with the market, LCC need to improve the car park first... it's a disgrace that car park, takes hours to get out, and costs a fortune to park on what i'd describe as waste land...

I work in the offices above the meerket so use this car park a lot....

Should it ever restart, that land is earmarked for the Eastgate Quarter development.

The best thing they could do with the market is redevelop the 70's indoor market, the outdoor market and the bus station. Above the new market spaces and redeveloped bus station a new park could be built - as sort of sky park (corny I know). This would solve both the lack of a major city centre park and the rather dilapidated market spaces. The land mass is huge and could be a great addition for the people of Leeds.

A park could also increase potential market values of the proposed Eastgate residential properties.

This development if undertaken by the Council would fall in line with the Governments spend ourselves out of recession mentality.

The best thing they could do with the market is redevelop the 70's indoor market, the outdoor market and the bus station. Above the new market spaces and redeveloped bus station a new park could be built - as sort of sky park (corny I know). This would solve both the lack of a major city centre park and the rather dilapidated market spaces. The land mass is huge and could be a great addition for the people of Leeds.



Hang on, the bus station was only built in the 1990s! :lol:

A small park called 'the Meadow' was apparently planned for the Eastgate Quarters site adjacent to the '70s market, but sadly no renders were ever released.

I like the bus station.

et tu di livio. I wasn't suggesting demolishing but redeveloping. More post-Roman Rome than English noughtie (Royal Mail building and other notable exceptions).

Unfortunately the latest plans, before the scheme was postponed, all seemed to suggest the preference was to focus all recreational space around the former petrol station. And in doing so shorten the bookends of Eastgate.

In my opinion that could be avoided through utilising the vast space above the markets and bus station... A simple look at Google maps illustrates the potential size of the area.

In my opinion that could be avoided through utilising the vast space above the markets and bus station... A simple look at Google maps illustrates the potential size of the area.

That vast space is earmarked for the Eastgate Development.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/leeds/2010/mar/17/labour-backing-kirkgate-market
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2009/12/29/1262099767455/guardian_leeds_940x100.gif
Council opposition will support market campaign
White paper at next full council meeting will call on authority to back 'the jewel in Leeds's crown'

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2010/3/17/1268847864719/leeds-market-001.jpg
Bustling place - the butchers' row in Leeds Kirkgate Market Photograph: John Baron/guardian.co.uk

Opposition councillors in Leeds have backed a traders' campaign to stop Kirkgate Market suffering from what they claim is a lack of investment and support.

Leeds Labour will present a white paper at the next full council meeting on April 21, calling for the Tory and Liberal Democrat-led council to do more for the city-centre market.

Yesterday I related how traders from Leeds's historic market are calling for a rent reduction and more say in how the market is run.

Traders also plan to take a deputation to next month's full council meeting to get themselves heard.

'Jewel in the city's crown'

Councillor Judith Blake, deputy leader of the Labour group on Leeds council, said: "The market is the jewel in Leeds's trading crown and one of the city's greatest assets.
leeds friends of kirkgate market A Friends of Leeds Kirkgate Market has been formed Photograph: guardian.co.uk

"The whole ethos of fresh, good-value food being easily available to people is a terrific asset for Leeds and the people who live and work here - there are traders there offering goods from all corners of the world at affordable prices.

"I feel very strongly that there needs to be more investment and promotion of the market - the council should listen to what the traders have to say."

Blake said it was crucial that, although the retail landscape in Leeds had changed in recent years, the city maintained a balance and variety in what it offers, and appealed to every budget.

Backing traders' calls

The White Paper is still being drawn up by Leeds Labour officials, but is believed to back traders' calls for more investment and better promotion of Kirkgate Market.

Blake pointed to last year's unannounced visit of prime minister Gordon Brown as indicative of her party's support for the market.

She added: "This isn't just a political campaign. I'm very passionate about the history of the market - it's one of the most beautiful buildings in Leeds and I feel very strongly that there should be investment there."

A council spokeswoman said that traders would be consulted on how a £250,000 investment earmarked for customer improvements at the market would be used. She also said that market officals held regular meetings with traders.

Tomorrow I shall take a look at the formation of the new Friends of Kirkgate Market group and how its members aim to support the market and its traders.

That vast space is earmarked for the Eastgate Development.

I mean vertically and not geographically above. I mention this in the previous post. The idea being to utilise the space on top of the markets and bus station.