Its still not to late to save the Welsh streets, the council plan to make a decission mid July so get your comments on here or if you are really serious let me know. people are needed to show the council that people do want to live in these houses and areas like the Granby Triange, come on make it happen....

Yeah. If we lose Ringo's house now we'll only regret when he eventually dies and he starts to be eulogised more.

Good point pj, do planners never ever ever learn? They demolished the Cavern Club for no valid reason. It is insanity to demolish Ringo's house unless there is a compelling reason. But there is not. This whole "knock 'em down and build new ones" policy is a disaster and a waste of money.

I wouldn't be too eager to follow the Trevor McDonald Show's 'we can do it cheaper and keep em' line. That feature was a bit tabloid-esque. I read elsewhere that they hadn't included the price of renovating the roofs- which would add thousands to the figure they ascertained. Furtermore, a lot of the people who actually live in those places (-anybody who has commented so far?) want to move into modern accomodation. If there is little market demand for the old houses they need to go IMO.

Maybe they could demolish everything except Ringo's house. Then it would be an old terrace in amongst newer styles- this would make it stand out more as a beacon to the great Ringo himself.

Yeah I saw that and wasnt keen. Its all very well being a heritage official living in a big house down south. I wonder if they have ever tried living in these things.

Maybe they shoud just save the ones Ringo's house is in?

I could live with the tiny terraces going, so long as it isnt a excuse to depopulate and lower the density of the city. Which at the moment is exactly what is planned.

Well said blabbersmoke! Even after they finished the house it wasn't up to the government decent homes standard!

I wouldn't be too eager to follow the Trevor McDonald Show's 'we can do it cheaper and keep em' line. That feature was a bit tabloid-esque. I read elsewhere that they hadn't included the price of renovating the roofs- which would add thousands to the figure they ascertained. Furtermore, a lot of the people who actually live in those places (-anybody who has commented so far?) want to move into modern accomodation. If there is little market demand for the old houses they need to go IMO.

Maybe they could demolish everything except Ringo's house. Then it would be an old terrace in amongst newer styles- this would make it stand out more as a beacon to the great Ringo himself.

Some of these terraces are really small, and i agree we can't keep 100%, so it is right to get rid of the least suitable. There will always be inequalities when this is done, i.e. someones house is perfect, but every other around it is derelict, so they will all be demolished, as long as that owner is provided with another house wether new or renovated.

As for Ringo's house, in this case maybe it should be preserved in some ingenious way, maybe surround it in a gardened open space where people can sit, with new housing around. Otherwise it will purchased cheaply and sold brick by brick for profit by some souvenir corporation.

the demolition of these houses is fine as long as there replaced with something good not the lego houses they seem to favour in this area and other parts of liverpool that would be sad if this happened.

As for Ringo's house, in this case maybe it should be preserved in some ingenious way, maybe surround it in a gardened open space where people can sit, with new housing around. Otherwise it will purchased cheaply and sold brick by brick for profit by some souvenir corporation.

Maybe Ringo himself could get involved in this? or even the National Trust - they made an effort and eventually saved Paul's and John's houses. Is Ringo's legacy less important than John and Paul's?

Well obviously it is.

But for completeness we really should try to save all four houses.
Collectively he was part of something very important.

Plans to demolish city homes put on hold. (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=15662894%26method=full%26siteid=50061%26headline=plans%2dto%2ddemolish%2dcity%2dhomes%2dare%2dput%2don%2dhold-name_page.html)

Plans to demolish city homes put on hold. (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=15662894%26method=full%26siteid=50061%26headline=plans%2dto%2ddemolish%2dcity%2dhomes%2dare%2dput%2don%2dhold-name_page.html)


Good to see them listening. :cheers:

Hooray! :banana:

Booooooooo hisssssssssssssssss. They are standing in the way of progress!

Kelvin Grove is part of the scheme and this is a street of three storey houses with 5 bedrooms and spacious rooms, and south facing gardens - these are not shit and are decent houses which should not be knocked down, people would love to live in them, I for one. I agree that some housing needs to go, as in the small and cramp housing, but replace with high density town houses. the houses on Kelvin Grove would go for over £200k anywhere else, theres no need to get rid of some thing which works!!!!

Fuck off Preston cunt! We don't like you. You get in our way. Scrotebag. :rant:

If you knew the area you might understand so dont bother Accura as you dont

Save Llanrwst Close! I helped my dad do a job there once.

I think its time the people of this city stopped talking for granted what we have here and try and save what we do have before its to late

DECISION DAY TOMORROW. (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=15709172%26method=full%26siteid=50061%26headline=battle%2dto%2dsave%2dbeatle%2ds%2dhome%2dstill%2drages-name_page.html)

Heared a snippet on Radio Merseyside the Welsh Streets have won a reprieve from demolition. :)

Only 100 houses to be demolished, and residents have to work on plans to prove regeneration can work. This is what the residents wanted, to have their input. :)

I have a big problem with all this talk about retaining old housing stock. Surely the reason that these properties have fallen into such disrepair over the years is because there is a lack of demand for them. People don't want to buy them and invest their money in them.

So what is the point in the likes of us forumers venting this aesthetic snobbery? Are the people who are moaning about the demolitions intending to buy an old terrace and do it up???

The issues we should be looking at under lie the actual style of the housing. The problem is with the style of ownership. Not enough people own their own home. Therefore, there is a lack of people who care enough about the places in which they live, to invest in maintaining the properties. This is the reason houses and communities fall into disreapir- because the state is expected to pay for everything when the public money just doesn't exist.

If the people in these areas want new homes they should be given them. As soon as possible they should be given ownership of the properties, and state funding should be withdrawn. If people are too feckless to maintain and invest in their own properties then why should the likes of me pay for them to be bailed out?

Ok, ok. I'm being over simplistic perhaps (-this happens when I've been for a pint on my lunch!), but there is little point in arguing about aesthetics if the primary use of these buildings (i.e. residential accommodation) is not being utilised.

These type of houses are the only way for first time buyers to get on the property ladder.

Many of my friends are trying to get a mortgage at the moment. For many of them the most they can borrow is around £60,000 - £70,000, based on a £15-20,000 a year salary, and 30 to 35 year mortgages.

First time buyers wont buy these homes as they can't afford to 'do them up'. If a developer can buy these homes for next to nothing, spend £20,000 rennovating them, they can surely sell them at a profit to the first-time buyers?

I agree with you Blabber's, wether there houses are renovated or demolished and rebuilt, people need to start taking ownership. I don't want my tax being spent on people who are capable of working and generating tax them selves, but who just want to scrounge, and then gradually turn the newly regenerated area back to shit again, only for those residents to start the cycle of wingeing about how it's gone to the dog's again. There are plenty of smart well kept terracing which dont have these problems because they are owned. We do need to get large groups of residents away from this relying on being supported by "The Corpy", the "they are doing nothing to help us". The "Corpy" and government does need to keep pushing these people towards helping themselves harder though.

A developer will only spend the minimum required to bring them up to a saleable value and therefore get the most return from their investment. This means that (and i've seen many cases of it) in 12 months time, the problems that caused this house not to sell in the first place show their ugly face again. Asking private developers to buy and do up properties to sell are not always the solution.

There are plenty of smart well kept terracing which dont have these problems because they are owned. We do need to get large groups of residents away from this relying on being supported by "The Corpy", the "they are doing nothing to help us". The "Corpy" and government does need to keep pushing these people towards helping themselves harder though.

Exactly Juxta. I have lived in several terraces in York over the last few years (rented) and the streets and buildings have looked superb. The character really comes out of these properties because they are well kept, and in clean, respected areas. The issue is ownership. People don't drop litter and let their dogs shit everywhere because they actually own a piece of the neighbourhood. The terraces in York are going for anywhere between £150K-£250k.

A developer will only spend the minimum required to bring them up to a saleable value and therefore get the most return from their investment. This means that (and i've seen many cases of it) in 12 months time, the problems that caused this house not to sell in the first place show their ugly face again. Asking private developers to buy and do up properties to sell are not always the solution.

Why private developers? There are private individuals like you and I.

These type of houses are the only way for first time buyers to get on the property ladder.

Many of my friends are trying to get a mortgage at the moment. For many of them the most they can borrow is around £60,000 - £70,000, based on a £15-20,000 a year salary, and 30 to 35 year mortgages.

First time buyers wont buy these homes as they can't afford to 'do them up'. If a developer can buy these homes for next to nothing, spend £20,000 rennovating them, they can surely sell them at a profit to the first-time buyers?

These are the type of people who would love to take ownership in these areas, and they should be helped, they are the people we need to repopulate Liverpool. They are put off though because of the degenerating nature and boarded up houses, which results in further degeneration, when there is nothing wrong with the houses that a renovation wouldn't cure, with the right people living in them.

RESIDENTS ANGER AT BULLDOZER GO AHEAD. (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=15716274%26method=full%26siteid=50061%26headline=residents%2d%2danger%2dat%2dbulldozer%2dgo%2dahead-name_page.html)

Why private developers? There are private individuals like you and I.

Yes there are, but do we know how to renovate a run down house? I wouldnt know where to start. Leave it to the 'experts' that what i say!

This type of property is ideal for the young, single professionals wanting to buy rather than rent.

My sister sold her run-down house in Anfield last year for £50,000 to a fella who 'does up' houses. He's just replaced the windows, installed central heating, converted the small bedroom into an upstairs bathroom, re-plastered the house, new kitchen and carpeted throughout. It cost him less than £25,000 as he did all the work himself.

Its on the market now for £88,000. Its a good business to get into if you know what you're doing and if you can do the bulk of the work yourself.

And needless to say, even £88,000 is still too much for many first time buyers, especially when your on your own!

the welsh streets are to be saved mark storey will embark on a widespred scheme to refurbish the homes.

Only a third of them are apparently. It's all a publicity stunt to get Ringo off their backs so they can proceed etc...

Only a third of them are apparently. It's all a publicity stunt to get Ringo off their backs so they can proceed etc...
I'm a bit dubious about this, i could be wrong, but they are going to knock 108 houses down and build new houses then renovate the rest. Hoping that the rest of the residents will say "oh...them new houses are nice, knock ours down aswell". So in the end they will demolish more than expected.

I think they are trying to compromise, which is surprising as our council are as stubborn as primary school custard.

We should resist all efforts to demolish perfectly good houses in the inner city.

Just to clarify a few points, ok.
Firstly people do like living there and do look after their homes.The reason for decay is a number things, absent landlords which the council allowed to let them leave empty homes become in a bad way.
Housing associations have left houses empty and havent bothered to re-rent out or sell to local people, instead they have become vandalism etc etc.
The way forward is for people to take ownership and that is the plan, to make this work I need your help, ANYONE who would seriously want to buy a house on either Kelvin Grove (5 bed, 3 storey houses) or on the other streets,(baring in mind its less than 1.5 miles and a nice quiet area which will be improved and is close to the park) PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let me know as I need names etc to prove that people do want to buy there, look at the streets in Allerton, it can and will be the same.
So Bladdersmoke your talking crap

Come on any takers????

I'd love one, but couldn't afford to buy a place yet. :(

Adactus & Urban Splash know how to make good use of terraced housing, with innovative ideas.

click here for news (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/cash/story/0,6903,1539397,00.html)

Thats right but I heard the council and CDS wont hear of it

Starr birthplace facing bulldozer
BBC, 9 September 2005

Former Beatle Ringo Starr's birthplace is to be demolished because it has "no historical significance", Liverpool City Council has said. The humble terrace in Madryn Street, Dingle, is one of 460 properties to be demolished for a regeneration project.

The house had been granted a reprieve two months ago while a public consultation was carried out.

But the council said Madryn Street had no significance because Ringo had spent only three months of his life there.

The council's housing select committee's decision is expected to be ratified by the council executive on 16 September.

Flo Clucas, executive member for housing, said: "Ringo Starr lived in the Madryn Street house for about three months before he moved to Admiral Grove, where he lived for about 20 years.

"John Lennon and Paul McCartney's childhood homes were preserved because they spent a significant part of their lives in them.

"The house on Madryn Street has no historical significance."

Many residents in the area, known as the Welsh Streets because each street is named after a place in Wales, are in favour of the Victorian homes being demolished.

But others have campaigned for them to be left standing.

Ringo Starr, who also narrated the Thomas The Tank Engine animations, called for the homes to be saved earlier this year.

He said: "Why are they knocking them down? If it is economically viable, they should do them up.

"Are they going to knock out the centre of Liverpool again?

"That's what they did before. They moved everybody to high-rise apartments outside the city and forgot to rebuild.

'Expensive housing'

"I believe it's now very nice. They even have bathrooms, which we never had."

Jeremy Hawthorn, who had campaigned to save the homes, said he believed the council had made its mind up months ago.

He said: "They want to clear working-class families out of this area to make way for expensive housing for richer people.

"I'm not surprised at this decision, but I am disappointed."

Beatles tourists can still visit the houses where John Lennon and Paul McCartney grew up.

The National Trust owns Lennon and McCartney's childhood homes in Menlove Avenue and Forthlin Road respectively while 12, Arnold Grove, where George Harrison grew up, is also still standing.

I find that story very depressing. Yet more evidence of a problem with the calibre of elected councillors and some of the senior officers they appoint.

Liverpool doesn't have that much by way of an economy, and one of the very few good prospects it has is culturally driven tourism. Culturally, the Beatles are without doubt the most valuable asset Liveprool possesses. Now, Ringo Starr may not be the greatest of the Beatles, but he was one of them, and I disagree that his birthplace is of no historic interest. It is of interest. Moreoever, there is already a well proven commercial gain to be made by exploiting interest in the Beatles. Of course his birthplace must be retained.

Nothing is remembered, nothing is learned. The Cavern was demolished for no good reason. The same calibre of person (ie fucking fool) is at work running Liverpool today. Japanese tourists are not stupid - they know they are not being offered the real thing there. I am sure that Beatles-related tourism would be so much stronger if that club had not been demolished. The housing market renewal pathfinders have been disastrous, there is really no need at all to demolish good old houses when they can be renovated for lower cost. And certainly not this one.

I am tempted to say I despair, but I do not. I believe that as the (sorry this will sound snobby but its not meant to be) population of Liverpool increases, things will change. A type of political class has been thrown up by previous class wars in Liverpool, and have enjoyed ruling the roost over a poor and declining city. Now we are seeing a situation where Liverpool's best can stay instead of having to leave, and others will come to the city (a historic necessity for cities: they import talent, and any city that becomes a net exporter of talent is on the way out). From this can come new energy, a willingness and capacity to challenge, and hopefully a new generation of leaders. I hope that within a decade Liverpool will be run by people who can recognise that it's nonsensical to turn away good private sector investment, and who recognise that Ringo Starr's house, while maybe not in the same class as the Tate, is certainly a valuable cultural, historical and economic asset that should not be pointlessy thrown away.

Funny thing is, the Councillor responsible for the quote that his house of not of historic interest will, I am certain, turn round in 10 years time and say it was a mistake, but will blame Government housing policies rather than her own foolishness.

Never really seen the Welsh streets before, apart from on tv, are these worth saving, are they solid, would they look great restored modern style with a third floor extension, or merged with next door, or the terrrace behind.

I worry that the new build will be just as low level, but bland, cheap architecture.

I would be for demolition if the new stuff was high quality, grander architecture. Against if we get same height low quality.

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/6581/zwelshstreets4rm5.jpg

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/5996/zwelshstreets2ha8.jpg

Looking at the far left "two all white fronted", that could be one home, with the two houses merged, and repeated throughout. Fully modernised with new build behind, on three storeys, would look superb.

Do we know what will replace these streets ?

DP (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2007/07/13/last-resident-in-ringo-s-street-gets-ready-to-leave-64375-19448077/)
Last resident in Ringo’s street gets ready to leave

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/liverpoolpost/jul2007/0/7/BE5EDE2B-F682-E267-E535B38D72EB820D.jpg

SHE lived in a two-up, two down terraced cottage in inner city Liverpool in a street where Ringo Starr spent his early days.

But the flagstone pavements and tiny backyard were no barrier to Sandra Graham’s love of gardening.

She transformed her tiny yard into her own Garden of Eden and, as neighbours left the street one by one, Sandra decided the bleak, empty street needed some colour.

Soon, though, she will be joining her old neighbours in a brand new house around the corner, the latest to exit the so-called Welsh Streets of Liverpool in the name of housing regeneration.

Hundreds of homes in the com-munity sandwiched between Princes Park and Dingle are to be bulldozed as part of the New Heart-lands Housing Regeneration programme.

The plight of the Welsh Streets generated international interest, partly because of Ringo Starr, its most famous occupant. It also sparked an ongoing campaign to have the houses saved.

Campaigners have renewed their battle after the change in govern-ment leadership, with hopes new Prime Minister Gordon Brown and Communities Secretary Hazel Blears will have a re-think about clearing thousands of old terraced homes.

Sandra, 62, said: “We campaigned for two years to try and save our homes, but one by one people have left and virtually every house is boarded-up.

“I wanted to stay because it has been my home for 32 years and is a lovely little house. It has been a smashing neighbourhood and very friendly. The kids around here were never any trouble.

“But now I have sold up to the council and I am waiting to move to the new houses around the corner in Cleveland Street. The nice thing is I will be joining five of my old neighbours.

“My house and the rest of Madryn Street is coming down as part of phase two of the clearance plan. I have heard the third phase will not be going ahead, it’s a pity it is too late to save our houses. I will be sad to go and hope to take as many plants with me to my new home where I will have a small garden.”

Cllr Marilyn Fielding, Liverpool City Council’s executive member for Neighbourhoods and Housing, said: “We’re happy to have been able to use Housing Market Renewal funds to help another resident move home and stay in the community.

“I can assure residents our plans for HMR in the Princes Park area are unchanged.

“The small number of residents opposed to regeneration are entitled to approach the Government, but we are confident the wishes of the majority who live in the neighbourhood and support the programme will be upheld.”

Nina Edge, campaigner for the Welsh Streets said: “We desperately need the new Communities Mini-ster to talk to Yvette Cooper, the Housing Minister to tell her enough is enough. What we need is common sense. The problem has changed, so must the solution. Wholesale demolition of half a million homes is not the answer.

“It is clear the Pathfinder demoli-tion machine is being driven by large house building companies that want to maximise profits.”

Ms Edge is backed by Homes Under Threat (HUT), a national net-work of communities under threat of demolition which has welcomed Gordon Brown’s assertion that affordable homes and listening to people would be among his priorities.

HUT spokesperson Sylvia Wilson said: “It does not make sense for the Government to destroy communi-ties when there is a housing shortage.

“Just because a house is a terrace or in need of some investment, it doesn’t mean it can’t be renovated more quickly and more cheaply than destroying communities and having to build new.”

What are they replacing it with?

What are they replacing it with?

Shite,where are the heritage lobby now,fuckin charlatans.:bash:

What are they replacing it with?

about half the rsidents that live there now.. so the fact that they are also doing away with what little commerce and amenity survives int he area does not matter as the slewed population would not be able to keep it going anyway.... thus our areas get poorer and poorer... and more dependent on the quangos for their mere existence!

Never really seen the Welsh streets before, apart from on tv, are these worth saving, are they solid, would they look great restored modern style with a third floor extension, or merged with next door, or the terrrace behind.

I worry that the new build will be just as low level, but bland, cheap architecture.

I would be for demolition if the new stuff was high quality, grander architecture. Against if we get same height low quality.

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/6581/zwelshstreets4rm5.jpg

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/5996/zwelshstreets2ha8.jpg

Looking at the far left "two all white fronted", that could be one home, with the two houses merged, and repeated throughout. Fully modernised with new build behind, on three storeys, would look superb.

This is the street I used to gaze out of through the window at from the age of 1 until we moved when I was 8.

You can do a lot with most things with a bit of imagination and will, and these terraces are no exception.

Dumb stupidity reigns.