BGC | Chateau de Noble Tower [Archive]

tyronne

July 20th, 2006, 09:38 PM

Allied Bank to put up P1-B residential condo in Global City
By Zinnia B. Dela Peña
The Philippine Star 07/21/2006

Allied Banking Corp., a banking concern of tobacco and beer magnate Lucio Tan, is building a P1-billion high-end residential condominium building within Bonifacio Global City in Taguig in partnership with a local property development firm.

The project, majority owned by Winville Development Corp. of Chinese businessman Berkley So, is expected to start construction in 2007 and is slated for completion by 2010.

Dubbed as Chateau De Noble, the building will have 40 stories.

Allied Bank provided the land while Winville will serve as arranger of the development of Chateau De Noble.

As such, Winville will pool funds from prospective investors to fund the project.

Winville legal counsel Raymundo Quiroz said a portion of the property is now owned by the company after shelling out a significant amount.

Quiroz said the money to invested by Chateau de Noble’s investors will be placed under an escrow account with Allied Bank — Winville’s trustee.

He said Allied Bank has also agreed to provide financing arrangements at market interest rates and credit term of 12 to 15 years.

Designed and masterplanned by international architectural company CCO Design Ltd. of Hong Kong and world-renowned WSP Group Hong Kong Ltd., Chateau de Noble’s unit will come in one, two or three bedrooms with engineered laminated flooring, built-in closets; bathrooms with bathtubs; first-class modular kitchen, built-in cook top, cabinets, and exhaust system; water heaters and split-type airconditioners; audio entry phone; emergency trigger systems; and a utility area.

"We are committed to bring investors value for their money, as the investments required for our units are very competitive and in fact are even lower than the others of the same class within or outside of the Bonifacio Global City," Quiroz said.

Existing residential buildings at the Bonifacio Global City include Bonifacio Ridge, One McKinley Place, Regent Parkway, Penhurst Parkplace, Pacific Plaza, and Essensa.

Ongoing residential projects on the other hand, include Kensington Place, Fairways Tower, South of Market, Forbestown, Fifth Avenue Place, and Serendra.

The Bonifacio Global City is fast becoming the burgeoning battleground for top developers such as Ayala Land Inc., Megaworld Corp., Robinsons Land Corp. Century Properties, G&W, and Philtown Properties (a subsidiary of RFM Corp.)

ALI’s developments include Market! Market!, a 10-hectare retail complex; Serendra, the biggest residential complex at 12 hectares boasting of 50 percent open space; and ALI’s office building projects with For Bonifacio Development Corp. (FBDC).

Of the 240 hectares comprising Bonifacio Global City, 137 hectares are owned and developed by FBDC. FBDC is 55 percent controlled by Bonifacio Land Corp., which is majority owned by Ayala Land Inc. and Evergreen Holdings Inc.

source: http://www.philstar.com/philstar/NEWS200607210709.htm

the edge

July 21st, 2006, 11:47 AM

how big is their lot? normally, buildings that go as high as this has big lot or high FAR. i suppose, FAR of chateau is only about 8 or 9 just like the other lots around.

ganzo

July 22nd, 2006, 04:52 AM

went to their grand launching yesterday. high end condominium pala ito hehe similar to icon i guess . The showromm is awesome .

Henry Ma

July 24th, 2006, 05:28 AM

The name Chateau de Noble is not only weird, it's ungrammatical in French, and it's downright ugly: it sounds like a lauriat restaurant.

Gibson@G&W

July 26th, 2006, 04:54 AM

how big is their lot? normally, buildings that go as high as this has big lot or high FAR. i suppose, FAR of chateau is only about 8 or 9 just like the other lots around.

The FAR of their lot is 12.

OtAkAw

July 26th, 2006, 04:58 AM

Sabi ko na nga ba there's something cheesy about "Chateau de Noble" in French eh...

tfigure

July 26th, 2006, 08:01 AM

Hi guys, I'm very sorry for my very ignorant question, FAR is floor area ratio, right? What exactly is that?

FAR is the land use plan of the local government on a specific site. example, the FAR of 12x is multiplied to the property area to arrive at the gross floor area. the higher the FAR, the higher is the price per sqm.

For the property of Chateau, i understand the FAR is around 12 on a 2,002 sqm. the building has around 43-storeys :)

tfigure

July 26th, 2006, 08:05 AM

the turnover unit is semi-furnished. went to its showroom yesterday, every unit has a high ceiling clearance of 3m. the accent of the furnitures is gold with an old-english style, which has a semblance of an english noble.

the model unit is far different from the project of ALI and Century. Everything seems to be geared towards the Chinese market. this is natural, since the project is baby of lucio tan. :runaway: :runaway:

thomasian

July 26th, 2006, 08:15 AM

^^ Mataas pala talaga 'to, 43 storeys at 3m ceiling height plus the floor-slab height and the spire, lalampas talaga height nito ng 150m.

the edge

July 27th, 2006, 08:42 AM

im planning to take a look at their model unit. where is it located? up to what time is it open?

thanks...

3cr

July 27th, 2006, 08:51 AM

Just reposting here as it mentioned something about the project... :)
Vol. XX, No. 1
Thursday, July 27, 2006 | MANILA, PHILIPPINES

Property & Infrastructure

BY RUBY ANNE M. RUBIO, Reporter
Bonifacio Global City developer hopes to draw shopping crowd

The developer of the Bonifacio Global City is hoping to draw the shopping crowd as it readies retail shops set to open soon at the former military base.
The developer of the Bonifacio Global City is set to open retail shops within the year.

This week, the Fort Bonifacio Development Corp., a joint venture between Ayala Land, Inc. and Campos-led Evergreen Holdings, Inc., will soft launch retail shops at its Serendra residential project at the Global City.

In November, it will open the Promenade, a "pedestrian highway" development that will offer both retail and commercial space.

Ayala Land said the soft opening of the retail portion at Serendra will offer a one-of-a-kind format which the property firm boasts as being reminiscent of the shopping experience at the Soho-Greenwich area in New York.
Head for commercial operations Aniceto V. Bisnar, Jr. said "the retail component in Serendra is [offering] new names, unique names, international concept of retail and restaurants."

On the other, he said, the Promenade, "will [offer] tested [retail] names that we have in the Ayala Malls."

Both projects will bring in more than 160 retail establishments.

"Those two projects are all high-end. There will be a big number of shops and restaurants that will come in and will be operational by end of the year," he added.

Aiming to add 400,000 square meters in gross leasable retail area to its portfolio in the next five years, Ayala Land will expand existing malls as it opens new centers in new locations.

The retail portion at Serendra consists of 6,400 square meters among others.

The Promenade is being constructed at the middle of the city center. It will be 40 meters wide with a length of about 500 meters cutting across the city center.

Mr. Bisnar said the Promenade will not only have shops and restaurants, but also stand-alone retail locators such as Adidas, Nike and Fully Booked.

"It will be the first of its kind in the country complemented by the best retail and food concepts. Every area here is designed to enhance the quality of life as it promotes a healthy work-life balance," he said during the launch of Chateau de Noble, a residential project to be developed by another company.

The Fort Bonifacio Development Corp. is owned by Bonifacio Land Corp. and the Bases Conversion Development Authority. Ayala Land and Evergreen Holdings bought the controlling stake in Fort Bonifacio Development in 2003.
The retail portion at Serendra consists of 6,400 square meters.

Bonifacio Global City is strategically located close to the Makati business district, the Ortigas center and the new airport terminal.

Mr. Bisnar said Fort Bonifacio Development, which owns 137 hectares of Bonifacio Global City, would continuously improve on the infrastructure and landscape.

"After we have completed the master plan, we have ongoing studies on how to improve our access roads, the entrances in terms of aesthetics, landscaping, signage, environmental graphics. Those are being studied right now by [Ayala Land], its planners and consultants. Of course, we will continue with the ongoing development of our city center which is our priority for the year," he added.

In its annual report, Ayala Land said the city center’s master plan was redesigned to "achieve the right balance between development density, landmark projects, open space, and amenities."

"The new plan will improve both vehicular and pedestrian circulation and allow a better balance of value among the available lots. The master plan’s signature feature is a landscaped retail and office promenade area which will be launched by the end of 2006," it added.

The new master plan was unveiled in May. It aims to transform the emerging business district into a city "that truly works." Its board approved the revised master plan in July 2005.

"The new master plan involves a major redesign of the amenities and facilities to make the entire area more efficient and attuned to the new standard of urban living. The master plan considers the efficient traffic and circulation with pedestrian-friendly design of roadways and walkways," Mr. Bisnar said.

On Friday, Fort Bonifacio Development welcomed Chateau de Noble as the 20th major residential project in Bonifacio Global City.

"This exciting 40-storey building is another addition to the world-class residential facilities of Bonifacio Global City. It will attract people to reap the benefits of our well-planned commercial business district with a very clean and green environment," Mr. Bisnar said.

Chateau de Noble will be developed by Winville Development Corp. The high-end residential condominium development project will start construction next year and will be completed by 2010.

Winville Chairman Berkley So said he is considering another residential project in Fort Bonifacio. There are other projects in the pipeline outside Fort Bonifacio that may start construction next year, but he declined to identify the locations.

"Our dream which we have worked so hard is becoming a reality. We want to provide a haven of luxury and style," he said.

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g278/glennbp/chateau.jpg
Here it is AranetaC. :)

aranetacoliseum

July 27th, 2006, 09:49 AM

any good rendering of this project?

Gibson@G&W

July 30th, 2006, 08:41 AM

Spoke with FBDC representatives the other day regarding a different matter, but this project became the topic of conversation at one point. The tower seems to be over the FAR limit given the design and sizes of the units. It seems that the design has not yet been approved by BESC, and they were not able to comment on it, until it is submitted for approval.

Submission is usually done prior to getting building permits. As is the case with our projects as well.

daDJ

July 30th, 2006, 08:54 AM

im planning to take a look at their model unit. where is it located? up to what time is it open?

thanks...

The showroom is beside the FurnItalia building and just across the street from Forbeswood Heights.

3cr

July 30th, 2006, 10:53 AM

Thanks for the info Gibson and daDJ! Sounds like the current rendering may not actually be the final version then.

macky

July 30th, 2006, 06:11 PM

I hope they strictly enforce the FAR limitation.

realtor_manila

August 1st, 2006, 05:49 PM

Hello!

I visited the model units this afternoon (They're nice model units). Some information which were provided:

1) Lot area is 2,052 sqm . Floor Area Ratio (FAR) = 12
Gross Floor Area = 24,624 sqm

2) For the record, this is the first project of Winville Development Corporation. (They would really like to establish a name in the real estate industry. )

They call themselves "Project Arranger" for this condo development.

3) Allied Bank is the escrow party (All checks to be issued by the client are payable to Allied Bank. In effect, the Bank is responsible in keeping the funds on behalf of the client.).

4) The project will start construction when 60-70% of the project is sold/subscribed.

5) Another info : Mrs. So, the wife of Mr. Berkley So (President of Winville), is the sister of Mr. Lucio Tan, who is a majority shareholder in Allied Bank. Allied Bank is the escrow bank for this project.

Comment: I think as escrow, there should be no conflict of interest as far as businesses/parties are concerned. To emphasize, the escrow bank should be INDEPENDENT from the Project Arranger. In other words, "walang pamilya, walang kamag-anak". (Sorry to quote these famous phrases/words, but I just want to drive a point here.) Again, the reason that we have an Escrow Party is to GIVE PROTECTION to the client.

I believe that if both parties, ie, the Project Arranger and the Bank are "related" (as per example above), then they should have eliminated the Escrow Party from the very start . And just tell the client that the checks are payable to : Winville .

To summarize: Black is Black; White is White. I believe that there should be no "Gray" Areas when it comes to these concepts.

Your comments/views on this matter are highly appreciated.

macky

August 2nd, 2006, 12:49 AM

Yeah, it sound too fishy for me. Correct me if i'm mistaken, but Megaworld is Lucio tan, right? It seems like they have too many on-going damn projects ,and the funds from one project being shuffled to another. Resulting in too many projects being way delayed from their delivery date as promised and living behind many dissatisfied and helpless clients/tenants. That is not the right way to do business....as the saying goes..." they give you this but you pay for that".

realtor_manila

August 2nd, 2006, 05:44 AM

Correct me if i'm mistaken, but Megaworld is Lucio tan, right?

Hi Macky!

Andrew Tan is the Chairman of Megaworld.

realtor_manila

August 2nd, 2006, 07:48 AM

It seems like they have too many on-going damn projects ,and the funds from one project being shuffled to another. Resulting in too many projects being way delayed from their delivery date as promised and living behind many dissatisfied and helpless clients/tenants.

In relation to this issue.... I read in the Phil Daily Inquirer that Philrealty will be using the sales proceeds to be generated by another project (which is The Icon in Fort Boni), a joint venture with Xcell Property Ventures, to finance the Andrea Skyline project in Quezon City. Please take note that the Andrea skyline project was started in 1996 but was suspended in 2000 due to the Asian financial crisis which bloated interest rates and Philrealty's debts.

This is a case of "dribbling funds" again.

So where will they get the funds to build The Icon -Tower 1? From the sales proceeds of The Icon - Tower 2? So where will you get the funds for Tower 2 ? From Tower 3? And so on...... Isang maling sabit dyan, expect projects to be be delayed or even outright cancellation of projects.

Gibson@G&W

August 3rd, 2006, 07:38 AM

OT: (Making a general comment, not exactly about this topic but since this is already what is being talked about)...

Many companies can easily fund the start of a project. Excavation does not cost too much. Start of the construciton is moslty funded by the contractors (many contractors will start work without a Downpayment).

Given these circumstance, a company can market a building, and when sales start to slow down, make a big announcement that it is "Sold Out" and start the construction of the building. In the hopes that it will further boost sales. However, the fact remains that if they cannot sell it during the pre-construciton period, they probably cannot sell it during the construciton period. Although partly sales are affected by the credibility of the company, sales are even more affected by the product itself.

In this scenario, it would seem from an outside party, or a prospective client that everything is going well for the project and not know the true colors of the situation...we call this the "Bluff"

However, if sales does not pick up, at one point, the construciton will surely slow down or even stop. That is the point where the developer was not able to achieve the sales figures, and the contractor is not being paid on time already.

The actual strength of the company, as we always say, is in their pace of completion, not their pace of launching projects. And companies who are weak will only show their true colors in the midst of the construciton phase. Notice that all uncompleted project has started some of its construciton already. This is the last card that a developer can pull to save the project...to start the construction.

Without mentioning names, and maintain professionalism, while also doing our part to protect the construciton industry and the home-needers...we already have some insider information on some project(s) here in BGC that are delayed in their construction payments. Some telltale signs are companies offering substantially lower and longer payment terms show early signs of weakness. Dubbed as "promo", but seen in the contruciton industry as act of desparation.

My point is: Do reasearch, work with a knowledgeable INDEPENDENT licensed property consultant. Because like in any country, there are good real estate players and there are bad ones.

Gibson@G&W

August 3rd, 2006, 07:43 AM

Realtor Manila, isn't this developer owned by Mariano Tan? That is the info that was given to me by their in-house marketing group.

bustero

August 3rd, 2006, 10:26 AM

This is another take of communidades type development. The paperwork will reveal how safe it is. IN general escrow arrangments in the trust department are untouchable as banks have a fiduciary responsiblity over these regardless of bank management.

Megaworld has nothing to do with Lucio Tan, as Realtor has said it's Andrew Tan and a quiet partner is also George Yang of Mcdo.

Philrealty is separate from Excell. I've not read the news article but Lanuza and company can not touch the cash flow of icon which is headed by Rallye Martinez and backed by Ricky Razon. They're the ones who are actually developing the project, Philrealty in this case is just landowner partner. I think they mean that whatever they earn from this project will help fund Andrea North which they are jumpstarting with their current Php1billion cash from their sale of export bank shares. The newspaper article may not be too accurate as usual.

Winville is owned by Lucio Tan interests. Mariano is one of his brothers. This project is as sure as they come as it's basically peanuts for LT group. They have very extensive real estate development experience elsewhere , specially HK where they are among the largest real estate companies there.

Am not to clear yet where it is and whether the original land is supposed to be FAR 8 or what but theymay have bought some extra FAR from some place else as FBDC is wont to sell.

realtor_manila

August 3rd, 2006, 05:02 PM

Realtor Manila, isn't this developer owned by Mariano Tan? That is the info that was given to me by their in-house marketing group.

Gibs, the name that they're giving as President of Winville is Mr. Berkley So. But honestly, balik-baliktarin natin lahat, it all boils down to Mr. Lucio Tan.

Sa totoo lang, anyone can establish a company using other people's names but there is this person who sets the vision/strategic directions of the company. Silent hand , but powerful.

Note: This is my very personal opinion.

realtor_manila

August 3rd, 2006, 05:19 PM

This is another take of communidades type development. The paperwork will reveal how safe it is. IN general escrow arrangments in the trust department are untouchable as banks have a fiduciary responsiblity over these regardless of bank management.

Hi bustero/Peter!

I think I'm very very conservative when it comes to these matters. The reason I have doubts is because of these:

Lucio Tan = Allied Bank
Lucio Tan = Winville

The point I'm driving at is that it's the same pocket ("iisang bulsa"). I'm aware of the fiduciary responsibility of banks but in this particular case, it can be abused. Anything can happen......

Where's the check and balance here?

The escrow party should be independent talaga. Maniniwala ako if they get an escrow bank where Lucio Tan has no interests --- say, Bank of Philippine Islands, RCBC, etc. Di ba, mas malinis tingnan kung ganoon?

Gibson@G&W

August 4th, 2006, 04:54 AM

Am not to clear yet where it is and whether the original land is supposed to be FAR 8 or what but theymay have bought some extra FAR from some place else as FBDC is wont to sell.

I know exactly where the lot is, and it is FAR 12 talaga. Extra FAR is not for sale, as far as I know.

Gibson@G&W

August 4th, 2006, 05:05 AM

Philrealty is separate from Excell. I've not read the news article but Lanuza and company can not touch the cash flow of icon which is headed by Rallye Martinez and backed by Ricky Razon. They're the ones who are actually developing the project, Philrealty in this case is just landowner partner. I think they mean that whatever they earn from this project will help fund Andrea North which they are jumpstarting with their current Php1billion cash from their sale of export bank shares. The newspaper article may not be too accurate as usual.

Philrealty is separate from Excell
Yes, on paper they are separate...however, in reality, all their board of directors are thesame, with only martinez and razon added.

I've not read the news article but Lanuza and company can not touch the cash flow of icon which is headed by Rallye Martinez and backed by Ricky Razon. They're the ones who are actually developing the project, Philrealty in this case is just landowner partner. I think they mean that whatever they earn from this project will help fund Andrea North which they are jumpstarting with their current Php1billion cash from their sale of export bank shares. The newspaper article may not be too accurate as usual.

Yup, philrealty is the landowner...even though they are also the board of directors for Icon. In the article, it does say that proceeds or profit from this project will go to Adreas North. Here is the touchy issue...

When do they consider it profit or proceeds earned in their accounting proceedure? I doubt that they would wait till Icon is fully completed (in 2010?) before they release "profits earned" to Adreas. If so, then I assume they would gradually release the funds. Then who dictates how these funds are released and when? Who would dictate wether the money that the client deposits in their trustee bank is for Construction? Commission? Model Unit overhead? Land cost?

Usually, when a project has financial trouble, a bank can easily bail them out, if and only if the accounting proceedures that were used are proper. Because if the accounting proceedures are proper, then there would be enough assets to cover for the loan that the project would need. There is enough equity to cover the cost of building it.

The reason why a project stays unfinished for so long, is when finance experts look at their books, assets left are less than what it would take to complete the projects because funding was diverted elsewhere.

This is always the danger in real estate. That is why even in paper, the companies are separate, people should be more careful because there are grey areas that are sometimes not seen.

gasrock

August 4th, 2006, 07:23 AM

Gibson@G&W

August 4th, 2006, 10:47 AM

And where is the government in all this mess? Isn't there a Banking Industry Oversight Committee or a National Real Estate Agency or even a Justice Department of the Philippines? Talaga bang free for all anything goes system sa Pinas? And we want to ATTRACT foreign investments and get expats to spend their hard earned life savings in the Philippines? Other than the Buy To Own system of owning real estate is there any government regulatory body in charge of protecting buyers?

This statement actually digs very deep in the heart of the issue. There are government regulations that are supposed to oversee these things. The rules as per our personal opinion (and this is just an opinion) is quite out-dated. Many companies have learned to go around it.

The best protection, is to find a knowlegeable INDEPENDENT property consultant to assist in selecting the right project.

There is nothing that should really make real estate in the Philippines less attractive, as like in any other country there are good and bad players in the industry. The challenge here in the Philippines is really determining who is the good and who is the bad.

Of course, living in the Philippines, where it is ranked 17th happiest country should make it all worth it! :)

bustero

August 4th, 2006, 05:32 PM

Hi bustero/Peter!

I think I'm very very conservative when it comes to these matters. The reason I have doubts is because of these:

Lucio Tan = Allied Bank
Lucio Tan = Winville

The point I'm driving at is that it's the same pocket ("iisang bulsa"). I'm aware of the fiduciary responsibility of banks but in this particular case, it can be abused. Anything can happen......

Where's the check and balance here?

The escrow party should be independent talaga. Maniniwala ako if they get an escrow bank where Lucio Tan has no interests --- say, Bank of Philippine Islands, RCBC, etc. Di ba, mas malinis tingnan kung ganoon?

This is of course one way of looking at it, but such an analogy is would basically mean that the BSP is incapable of policing something as Black and White as a simple trust and fiduciary agreement. One can of course extrapolate such generalized fears and basically say that anything can be done in the Philippines which means any bank is suspect assuming enough moeny is passed around. You can of course believe anything you like but the degree of reasonableness is what should be tested? Has there been any such instance with Allied bank and LT interest colluding in such a way that the credibility of the bank and depositors interests have been sidelined by such a conflict of interest. Lastly you may say what you like about Lucio Tan as I personally am no fan of his BUT getting money from his bank to fund projects such as these is the last thing he needs to do, as he personally and his group are net creditors and not debtors in relation to the whole economic and banking system.

bustero

August 4th, 2006, 05:36 PM

I know exactly where the lot is, and it is FAR 12 talaga. Extra FAR is not for sale, as far as I know.
For sure it is possible.

I personally have spoken with them and they have offered this to me.

Charlie Rufino told me personally that for their lots instead of giving them a cheaper price when they were making tawad they were instead given a higer FAR.

The present controversy with Tinga in Taguig is that they have been holding up the present FAR movements saying that the present FAR requirements should be upheld. FBDC is saying that the total FAR buildable is still the same hence there is no problem moving this around but Taguig want's it's say.

bustero

August 4th, 2006, 06:02 PM

Yes, on paper they are separate...however, in reality, all their board of directors are thesame, with only martinez and razon added.

Yup, philrealty is the landowner...even though they are also the board of directors for Icon. In the article, it does say that proceeds or profit from this project will go to Adreas North. Here is the touchy issue...

When do they consider it profit or proceeds earned in their accounting proceedure? I doubt that they would wait till Icon is fully completed (in 2010?) before they release "profits earned" to Adreas. If so, then I assume they would gradually release the funds. Then who dictates how these funds are released and when? Who would dictate wether the money that the client deposits in their trustee bank is for Construction? Commission? Model Unit overhead? Land cost?

Usually, when a project has financial trouble, a bank can easily bail them out, if and only if the accounting proceedures that were used are proper. Because if the accounting proceedures are proper, then there would be enough assets to cover for the loan that the project would need. There is enough equity to cover the cost of building it.

The reason why a project stays unfinished for so long, is when finance experts look at their books, assets left are less than what it would take to complete the projects because funding was diverted elsewhere.

This is always the danger in real estate. That is why even in paper, the companies are separate, people should be more careful because there are grey areas that are sometimes not seen.

The issues you raised are of course valid but let's be fair and say that all big real estate companies including Ayala and Megaworld manage their cashflows this way. All their money is one big pot that is managed by treasury and they allocate the funds when and as needed.

Now with regards to your question about when is it considered profits, consider the following, Is Phil Realty and Xcell the same company, even if they do share directors? Will the Icon project funds be used to fund Andrea North ? When will the cash be available to Philrealty?

First Phil Realty is not xcell, they may have interlocking boards but their interests diverge where it comes to how they use any cash not specifically for an excel project. I highly doubt Ricky Razon, Wilson Sy, Alfred xerex burgos, All well known businessmen with their own establishements and with well developed reputations would allow any comingling of funds with a company they don't even have direct relations with. If it were a subsidiary of some sort I could believe this but in this case, highly doubtful. Philrealty is a rehabilitating company owned basically by the Ortigases why they (Ricky Razon et al) would bother to fund a troubled company throwing their own good money after bad , for a project they have no benefits from, from their own project would be a bit beyond my belief . I just read an article in Inq7 . I don't know if this is the same article being refered to in the posts above but the bottom line is that my reading is that it says nothing at all about comingling of funds or anything approaching that. It's a line about using whatever they (Philrealty) gets from their icon project to help fund Andrea. I highly doubt that the board of Icon(xcel) will allow advances to Philrealty for something they get nothing from. On the other hand when the project is finished and dividends are declared then I can imagine the Phil Realty will get it's money!

bustero

August 4th, 2006, 06:10 PM

And where is the government in all this mess? Isn't there a Banking Industry Oversight Committee or a National Real Estate Agency or even a Justice Department of the Philippines? Talaga bang free for all anything goes system sa Pinas? And we want to ATTRACT foreign investments and get expats to spend their hard earned life savings in the Philippines? Other than the Buy To Own system of owning real estate is there any government regulatory body in charge of protecting buyers?

Of course it's there you have to be specific in what particular mess you refer too. There may be a bit more flexibility in the system here compared to other developed nations but it's not the wild west where in there is no legal parameters whatsoever. You must differentiate between generalized fear a lot of which can be imagined and is actualy applicable in almost any nation and any scenario and actual issues and problems that can be mitigated by proper consultation , investigations and contractual structure. And the Buy to Own system or any similar communidades type structured real estate investment is not regulated by any goverment agency actually. It's a structured contract that is governed by contractual law primarily. Depending on it's manifestation it may or may not be regulated by the HLURB, which regulates most real estate (specially residentialtype ) projects.

gasrock

August 6th, 2006, 10:46 PM

Very interesting discussion about this project and a must read for anyone considering a purchase in this development. Both sides have in-depth understanding and real estate background to present a compelling viewpoint. It arms a prospective buyer with enough information to make an informed decision. Thanks for the discussion.
The way I see it the truth probably lies in the middle....meaning there is probably no hanky panky going but a concern for the intertwined relationships of the players should be a consideration in making a purchase. I applaud Gibson for filling the vacuum left by the lax govt regulation and pointing out possible things that can go wrong or could possibly go wrong with this arrangement between land owner, project arranger, and the bank. I admire @realtormanila for being vigilant in protecting her clients' interest by scrutinizing a project to make sure it is "clean". Lastly, thank you Bustero/Peter for providing a balancing viewpoint on behalf of the developers and shedding light on the relationship of the persons involved in this project.
This is like an election and it's up to the buyers to vote with their money.

Gibson@G&W

August 7th, 2006, 08:02 AM

The issues you raised are of course valid but let's be fair and say that all big real estate companies including Ayala and Megaworld manage their cashflows this way. All their money is one big pot that is managed by treasury and they allocate the funds when and as needed.

Now with regards to your question about when is it considered profits, consider the following, Is Phil Realty and Xcell the same company, even if they do share directors? Will the Icon project funds be used to fund Andrea North ? When will the cash be available to Philrealty?

First Phil Realty is not xcell, they may have interlocking boards but their interests diverge where it comes to how they use any cash not specifically for an excel project. I highly doubt Ricky Razon, Wilson Sy, Alfred xerex burgos, All well known businessmen with their own establishements and with well developed reputations would allow any comingling of funds with a company they don't even have direct relations with. If it were a subsidiary of some sort I could believe this but in this case, highly doubtful. Philrealty is a rehabilitating company owned basically by the Ortigases why they (Ricky Razon et al) would bother to fund a troubled company throwing their own good money after bad , for a project they have no benefits from, from their own project would be a bit beyond my belief . I just read an article in Inq7 . I don't know if this is the same article being refered to in the posts above but the bottom line is that my reading is that it says nothing at all about comingling of funds or anything approaching that. It's a line about using whatever they (Philrealty) gets from their icon project to help fund Andrea. I highly doubt that the board of Icon(xcel) will allow advances to Philrealty for something they get nothing from. On the other hand when the project is finished and dividends are declared then I can imagine the Phil Realty will get it's money!

Agreed! However, I was not suggesting that they are going to comingle funds in my previous post. What I was trying to point out was in a relationship like the one that Philrealty and Excell have, there are gray areas that can pose as a risk to unit owners.

The gray area in which I was referring to was the accounting of "profit" or proceeds, which is supposed to be used to rehabilitate Philrealty. 2 questions I have about these proceeds:

1) Does it get released to Philrealty while Icon is being constructed?
2) If yes, how do they account for profit or proceeds?

This is a unique problems with joint-venture projects and real estate as a combination. Since the project has a 2-3 year time frame, and the payment of the clients are very much stretched in this project, where 40% or so are due upon turn-over, how do they apportion the cash.

a) do they keep constructing the tower, and after completion give the payment to their ailing company philrealty? or...

b) do they release the funds earlier to meet their bank obligations and corporate restructuring.

Surely, you have read that Philrealty is being restructured and have pormised cash flow to their creditors. The extent of which and the details are not disclosed to clients. I am not suggesting comingling of funds, as no company with proper accountants will even be caught with that. There are always ways in accounting to "allocate" funds that is benefiticial to the party who has the most influence.

Since the party of influence on both comapnies are the same person...who will they prioritise? Their client or the bank in which they have obligations to?

This is inherently the problems also in big corporations...there are too many stakeholders...like in Enron...do they use accounting principles that woule be beneficial for their shareholders? or for the company's well being? In their case, they chose the shareholders (and themselves who are shareholders as well), and led to their demise as well. The only difference here is that they got caught...but at that point, too many loses have happened already. Even if their CEO dies of depression or get sent to jail for the rest of his life. The people who invested their lives and money to that company will never get back what they lost!

I am not saying that it would be done incorrectly, all I am saying is that we should be aware of the fact that there are many other considerations and priorities that face a joint-venture like this. Decisions that has to be made, that the unit owners are not aware of. and external pressures that are major enough that is can jepordise the ability of a company to deliver on its promises. That, added to the fact that the balancing act is held by the same person.

I personally would consider this a risky venture to go into. If it were my own money, I would not go into such a risk. Sure, there are rules that prevent this from happeneing, but there are also ways in which it can happen.

However, in my mind, a corporation will always be limited to its corporate assets. When money comes into a corporation, it is up to individual stakeholders to apportion the money wether it is going to stay as corporate assets or personal assets (by means of salary, bonus and many other "accounting legal" means), but they almost always never get punished if it is apportioned incorrectly, its only the corporation that will file for bankruptcy.

If I were an owner of xcell and philrealty...it will seems like an obvious and only solution...set up a new corporation that has the capabiilty to generate more revenue...waht are my choices...let Philrealty go down the drain? Or set up a new corporation that would buy its property at a premium and generate more new revenue at the same time.

It is a separate corporation with the same stakeholdes, I don't think their decisions will be as accurate as if both companies were completely separate with different stakeholders. They valued the lot sale for Icon in the paper at quite a high price, almost double the lot prices of Ayala lots. If the company was really separate of its Philrealty stakeholders, then the most wise decision it to buy a lot from Ayala that is half the cost and let Xcell earn more net income by itself.

3cr

August 7th, 2006, 09:56 AM

It might be more appropriate to move future PhilRealty/Xcell related discussion in the Icon thread instead. Suggestion lang naman... :runaway:

bustero

August 7th, 2006, 12:08 PM

Agreed! However, I was not suggesting that they are going to comingle funds in my previous post. What I was trying to point out was in a relationship like the one that Philrealty and Excell have, there are gray areas that can pose as a risk to unit owners.

The gray area in which I was referring to was the accounting of "profit" or proceeds, which is supposed to be used to rehabilitate Philrealty. 2 questions I have about these proceeds:

1) Does it get released to Philrealty while Icon is being constructed?
2) If yes, how do they account for profit or proceeds?

This is a unique problems with joint-venture projects and real estate as a combination. Since the project has a 2-3 year time frame, and the payment of the clients are very much stretched in this project, where 40% or so are due upon turn-over, how do they apportion the cash.

a) do they keep constructing the tower, and after completion give the payment to their ailing company philrealty? or...

b) do they release the funds earlier to meet their bank obligations and corporate restructuring.

Surely, you have read that Philrealty is being restructured and have pormised cash flow to their creditors. The extent of which and the details are not disclosed to clients. I am not suggesting comingling of funds, as no company with proper accountants will even be caught with that. There are always ways in accounting to "allocate" funds that is benefiticial to the party who has the most influence.

Since the party of influence on both comapnies are the same person...who will they prioritise? Their client or the bank in which they have obligations to?

This is inherently the problems also in big corporations...there are too many stakeholders...like in Enron...do they use accounting principles that woule be beneficial for their shareholders? or for the company's well being? In their case, they chose the shareholders (and themselves who are shareholders as well), and led to their demise as well. The only difference here is that they got caught...but at that point, too many loses have happened already. Even if their CEO dies of depression or get sent to jail for the rest of his life. The people who invested their lives and money to that company will never get back what they lost!

I am not saying that it would be done incorrectly, all I am saying is that we should be aware of the fact that there are many other considerations and priorities that face a joint-venture like this. Decisions that has to be made, that the unit owners are not aware of. and external pressures that are major enough that is can jepordise the ability of a company to deliver on its promises. That, added to the fact that the balancing act is held by the same person.

I personally would consider this a risky venture to go into. If it were my own money, I would not go into such a risk. Sure, there are rules that prevent this from happeneing, but there are also ways in which it can happen.

However, in my mind, a corporation will always be limited to its corporate assets. When money comes into a corporation, it is up to individual stakeholders to apportion the money wether it is going to stay as corporate assets or personal assets (by means of salary, bonus and many other "accounting legal" means), but they almost always never get punished if it is apportioned incorrectly, its only the corporation that will file for bankruptcy.

If I were an owner of xcell and philrealty...it will seems like an obvious and only solution...set up a new corporation that has the capabiilty to generate more revenue...waht are my choices...let Philrealty go down the drain? Or set up a new corporation that would buy its property at a premium and generate more new revenue at the same time.

It is a separate corporation with the same stakeholdes, I don't think their decisions will be as accurate as if both companies were completely separate with different stakeholders. They valued the lot sale for Icon in the paper at quite a high price, almost double the lot prices of Ayala lots. If the company was really separate of its Philrealty stakeholders, then the most wise decision it to buy a lot from Ayala that is half the cost and let Xcell earn more net income by itself.

I do not think that the only wise decision for xcel is to buy a lot from FBDC. The reality is that even if the valuation is high it's a paper valuation and most probably reflects the fact that the payout is based far into the future rather than right now. As far as I know Rally Martinez looked for a white knight in the form of Ricky Razon to try fish out what was one of the few prime golf lots left in the Fort, he was not looking for money to just finance any fort project, and while certain lots themselves may be cheaper no other lot along the golf course is left beside the golf course which makes it quite valuable. Factor in the fact that land owners do not jv their land at the current price's value but expect some gain which is ussually reflected on Paper.

I would agree with you if Philrealty and Icon are controled by the same person but My point is that the relationship between Phil realty and Xcel is not as you say it is. There is a clear demarcation line between who controls both corporations. The difference is very key in deciding who gets what cash from what revenue. I highly doubt that Ricky Razon is going to make sure that the banks of PhilRealty are going to get paid first before the building will get made. He put up the money to finance the project, He will get nothing from having Phil realty survive so why would he prioritize them in any way to the detriment of his own project, imperilling his own cash flow and the delivery of his project, soiling his own relationship!

In the end real estate like all transactions are subject to caveat emptor. And while it may seem to some that there is no punishment for real estate developers who do not finish projects, the reality is that there is. Bear in mind that it's is a criminal offence to not return deposits given if a developer can not deliver a unit, the corporate entity does not protect it's board and management from such "fraudulent " practices. As obviously in the case of Philrealty, there is also reputational penalty in that there is much loose speculation regarding any project it does, regardless of the truth. This determines each ones version of what is perceived as risky and not. The ironic part is that PHilrealty itself has been quite circumspect in the management of it's affairs, for many of it's projects it has returned it's clients money for most part and is paying it's dues under a bankruptcy protection receiver.

What is important is exactly as you have been saying , get the facts.
But The facts not only have to do with making sure it's a not a fly by night developer but also have a lot to do with making sure one does not impunge on other developers projects reputations! Byextension I find it so ironic that a new developer like Winville is already under so much question with it's credibility when it's actually developing the project under the very same BTO/communidades type rules that are supposed to make the project less risky! PUrely from imagined repuational risk and guilt by association.

Gibson@G&W

August 8th, 2006, 05:59 AM

the corporate entity does not protect it's board and management from such "fraudulent " practices.

I have yet to see a board member of an unfinished project get criminally punished. But I have seen many people say they have lost or have money stuck in an uncompleted project. This is the reality of things...

Maybe on paper "fraudulent" act is a crime, however, proving Fraud is another very difficult thing, given our judicial system. I am sure there is a degree of separatedness with Philrealty and Xcell, but you cannot deny that there is a degree of connectedness as well!

Like I always say, people who buy homes, just want their homes delivers PERIOD. They do not want to know if they will be protected if the developer committs a crime or not. The caveats of real estate development must be known by all the consumers to have an informed decision.

What is important is exactly as you have been saying , get the facts. But The facts not only have to do with making sure it's a not a fly by night developer but also have a lot to do with making sure one does not impunge on other developers projects reputations!

Not only do you have to find out that the developer is not fly by night. Remember, the biggest failures in real estate here in the Philippines are from Major Coprorations that are not fly by night! These are owned by wealthy business people, who have made it big in the industry and are known to be personally rich.

Yet, these facts (their money) have not stopped them from defaulting in their obligations.

I think that research has to be done...not by looking at the developer to have money or not...but do they have the EXPERTISE and the ability to make the right decision, prioritising the project itself and not other interests. Money can easily be sourced from a bank...interest lang ang katapat niyan! As long as the project is viable, there will be people who are willing to throw money at it. The incorporator does not have to be rich. BUT, the incorporator has to have the EXPERTISE and KNOWLEDGE and EXPERIENCE to do a project. If you don't know what you are doing...no amount of money can make you complete a project.

Byextension I find it so ironic that a new developer like Winville is already under so much question with it's credibility when it's actually developing the project under the very same BTO/communidades type rules that are supposed to make the project less risky! PUrely from imagined repuational risk and guilt by association.

Why would it be ironic if people question Winville? I think it is only right that it be open for discussion as they are offering a new product, and people don't know who they are.

I also don't think Winville is doing the same system as Build To Own. I think we have also already established that Communidades is different from BTO. Winville is a developer, while the system of Build To Own has no developer but directly hiring the professionals who build for the developer to build directly for you.

Again, I am not questioning Winville...because I said this: OT: (Making a general comment, not exactly about this topic but since this is already what is being talked about)...

However, I think it is necessary for people considering to buy this project or any project for that matter to know the facts and the caveats of each system of development. Their joint venture structure, their partners and the role of each stakeholder. The simple question of, why is that person involved in this project? What is it for him or her? Are the the MONEY or the EXPERTISE? In most cases, if all the people involved in the project is there just to show money, but then why do they bother pre-selling ahead of time before building. If they already had the money, just build it and sell it while you are building it. Having "money" or being backed by a billionaire is not enough to make a project succeed...this is a fact established by many past project failures already!

What people need to evaluate is if the company has the EXPERTISE and CAPABILITY to make the project viable. Because no investor will "imperill their own cash flow" if the project is not a vailable one.

bustero

August 8th, 2006, 12:21 PM

have yet to see a board member of an unfinished project get criminally punished. But I have seen many people say they have lost or have money stuck in an uncompleted project. This is the reality of things...

I know of many examples including famous developers who have pending criminal cases and yes for those who are truly fraudulent they do go to jail. The problem here is that most people assume that if a project does not push through there is fraud involved and this is not neccesarily the case! My point is that the system is not as inutile as many people believe.

IMaybe on paper "fraudulent" act is a crime, however, proving Fraud is another very difficult thing, given our judicial system. I am sure there is a degree of separatedness with Philrealty and Xcell, but you cannot deny that there is a degree of connectedness as well!

I completely agree the degree of connectedness is there but it is a complete non sequitor that this means they act in the same way at all , or collude. Like what isbeing alluded too! The thing is these (that they act as one just because they are connected) are speculation at this point and not fact at all.

Why would it be ironic if people question Winville? I think it is only right that it be open for discussion as they are offering a new product, and people don't know who they are.

What I find ironic is that from what has been written in this thread it seems that winville is doing a similar escrow type arrangement that people are espousing for it's measure of security, it's totally fine to question any developers reputation if you're own money is on the line, I take issue on the fact that the posts above seem to refer to the fact that even the same system is now questionable just because it's winville!

I also don't think Winville is doing the same system as Build To Own. I think we have also already established that Communidades is different from BTO. Winville is a developer, while the system of Build To Own has no developer but directly hiring the professionals who build for the developer to build directly for you.

I actually disagree with this assesment. The most important salient points of communidades and bto are basically the same. The difference is mostly semantics. Communidades basically espouses lower costs by using the capital of the condo buyers and increasing security by using a third party escrow to control the cash flow. The labelling of "developer" and "project manager" is semantics as far as real estate professionals are concerned. Somebody is fulfilling the role of developer (and it's profits) if it's tucked in as a "service" by someone else and labeled as something else then fine go ahead and call it that. The Bottom line is that functionally there is no differentiation except for the labelling. In the end from a buyer's standpoint it should answer at least the question about security.

However, I think it is necessary for people considering to buy this project or any project for that matter to know the facts and the caveats of each system of development. Their joint venture structure, their partners and the role of each stakeholder. The simple question of, why is that person involved in this project? What is it for him or her? Are the the MONEY or the EXPERTISE? In most cases, if all the people involved in the project is there just to show money, but then why do they bother pre-selling ahead of time before building. If they already had the money, just build it and sell it while you are building it. Having "money" or being backed by a billionaire is not enough to make a project succeed...this is a fact established by many past project failures already!

What people need to evaluate is if the company has the EXPERTISE and CAPABILITY to make the project viable. Because no investor will "imperill their own cash flow" if the project is not a vailable one.

Sure this is all fine including most of what's written above, I take issue with some other things but this is beside the point. Everyone should find out what they can, to protect their own interest. But my point in general and for the purposes of this forum is that we should establish facts and not speculation specially about who is doing what and which project will be good or not. I say this with all due respect specially to you Gibson, because you have to be careful about what you comment since you sell a competing product! The mere hint that you find another project "risky" can sound like gamesmanship at the very least rather than an honest opinion. ON the other hand if it was all facts then it's quite unassailable.

Gibson@G&W

August 9th, 2006, 07:18 AM

I actually disagree with this assesment. The most important salient points of communidades and bto are basically the same. The difference is mostly semantics. Communidades basically espouses lower costs by using the capital of the condo buyers and increasing security by using a third party escrow to control the cash flow. The labelling of "developer" and "project manager" is semantics as far as real estate professionals are concerned. Somebody is fulfilling the role of developer (and it's profits) if it's tucked in as a "service" by someone else and labeled as something else then fine go ahead and call it that. The Bottom line is that functionally there is no differentiation except for the labelling. In the end from a buyer's standpoint it should answer at least the question about security.

Actually, I beg to disagree.

Communidades and Developer system is that one that is alike, and as you say just semantics. This system basically involves 3 parties:

1) Developer or Project Manager (gets profit on top of the cost of the building, and are not necessarily licensed profesisonals by the PRC)
2) Architect (designs and manages construction)
3) Contractor (Builds the building)

"Project Manager" term here is used loesely, as it is not necessarily the same as the role of a project manger in a construction setting. The project manger they are refering to is someone who would group all the clients for a profit but not necessarily manage the construciton of the project.

Also, in both the developer and the project manages in communidades, the money of the client is used for the development. Hence the term "pre-sell". The fact that communidades uses the money of the client is not the reason why it is cheaper. The reason it is cheaper is because the communidades project mangers are new to the industry, with no debt, lower overhead and not other burdens like an uncompleted project that add to the cost of the buliding. IN short, they are more efficient.

The Build To Own system, is essentially, just 2 parties:

1) The Architect
2) The Contractor

Since there are no more costs that the client need to pay to the developer or the communidades project manger, the costs are lower. The profit of the developer and the project manager is not tucked in like you say...it is eliminated.

Please do not simplify it as semantics, as if you look closely to all the documents that we use, and the technicalities, it is a totally different system.

This has been discussed in length in various other posts as well, and I am sure you have gone through them already to know that it is not simply semantics.

Gibson@G&W

August 9th, 2006, 07:37 AM

Sure this is all fine including most of what's written above, I take issue with some other things but this is beside the point. Everyone should find out what they can, to protect their own interest. But my point in general and for the purposes of this forum is that we should establish facts and not speculation specially about who is doing what and which project will be good or not. I say this with all due respect specially to you Gibson, because you have to be careful about what you comment since you sell a competing product! The mere hint that you find another project "risky" can sound like gamesmanship at the very least rather than an honest opinion. ON the other hand if it was all facts then it's quite unassailable.

Again, I am not saying each particular project is risky or not. That is not my place, and if I have given that improession, I would like to apologize and edit my post to make it not leading.

What my intention here is to educate the forumers about the caveats and how details that are often ignored can possibly have a significant effect on a project. In doing so, it is necessary to give examples, but of course, I am not saying nor have said that this is what the company is doing.

By pointing out facts such as:

separate companies but with similar board of directors is a fact. From this fact, I hope to expound on how it can possibly affect a project. I am not saying it will happen, but it can. Also, if you notice, I always point to past events that happened...these are things that happened already, and I would hate to see it happening again.

I completely agree the degree of connectedness is there but it is a complete non sequitor that this means they act in the same way at all , or collude. Like what isbeing alluded too! The thing is these (that they act as one just because they are connected) are speculation at this point and not fact at all.

Yes, the fact that they would collude is a speculation...I never assesed that they are colluding. What I am simply saying is that it is a possibility that forumes should be aware of. I hope that it will not happen for those people who have invested in this project. Because if it does, then again, the entire construciton industry of the Philippines will be adversely affected.

It is a speculation but when the time comes that we find out, it can be too late already.

I am sorry if this may seem a little agressive and might seem like gamesmanship...I take that risk to give my opinion, which I think only a person inside the industry and has experience in buildings can give. I also take it as my own responsibility to share my experience to forumers...as I don't see anyone being honest about what the reality is in the industry. I also never tell people that they should only consider BTO. There are many other players out there that are reliable, that I can talk positive things about. Ayala for one is a very reliable developer. Cityland I believer is also a very reliable developer. The devleoper of G.A. tower is also very good. I think recently I posted on how impressed I was with the progress of SOMA's construcion.

I do not say what I say to lure people to BTO projects, as I am not one to assume other people are as simple to succumb to gamesmanship. I say what I say to give people the information to make the proper decision...with all the facts, and what these facts can mean to them.

Gibson@G&W

August 9th, 2006, 07:44 AM

I completely agree the degree of connectedness is there but it is a complete non sequitor that this means they act in the same way at all , or collude. Like what isbeing alluded too! The thing is these (that they act as one just because they are connected) are speculation at this point and not fact at all.

I cannot agree with you more on this line. However, the question I would pose to you is...

We have established that there is a degree of connectedness...

How then would you determine if their acts are purely independent and not in collusion (or vice versa)? It is a speculation, but how do you get down to the facts?

I don't think people have the luxury to just wait and find out when it is already too late.

bustero

August 9th, 2006, 11:30 AM

Actually, I beg to disagree.

Communidades and Developer system is that one that is alike, and as you say just semantics. This system basically involves 3 parties:

1) Developer or Project Manager (gets profit on top of the cost of the building, and are not necessarily licensed profesisonals by the PRC)
2) Architect (designs and manages construction)
3) Contractor (Builds the building)

"Project Manager" term here is used loesely, as it is not necessarily the same as the role of a project manger in a construction setting. The project manger they are refering to is someone who would group all the clients for a profit but not necessarily manage the construciton of the project.

Also, in both the developer and the project manages in communidades, the money of the client is used for the development. Hence the term "pre-sell". The fact that communidades uses the money of the client is not the reason why it is cheaper. The reason it is cheaper is because the communidades project mangers are new to the industry, with no debt, lower overhead and not other burdens like an uncompleted project that add to the cost of the buliding. IN short, they are more efficient.

The Build To Own system, is essentially, just 2 parties:

1) The Architect
2) The Contractor

Since there are no more costs that the client need to pay to the developer or the communidades project manger, the costs are lower. The profit of the developer and the project manager is not tucked in like you say...it is eliminated.

Please do not simplify it as semantics, as if you look closely to all the documents that we use, and the technicalities, it is a totally different system.

This has been discussed in length in various other posts as well, and I am sure you have gone through them already to know that it is not simply semantics.

I would agree with you but only from a strictly technical point of view. The reality is that from what I read here and many other sources of info it's basically jsut variations of a similar real estate strucutre hence what I mean semantics. The lack of a key personality does not mean the function of actual development has been eliminated. The bottom line specially from the point of view of the buyer is that his payments are secured by third party escrow and can get it out should the project not push through. Funds are pooled prior to the project and are directly used to own the project directly , rather than buy products from another party. There is no distinction between the two at this point. This type of real estate structure not uncommon in many parts of the world and goes by different names. The first type of project that used this sort of system here in the Philiippines borrowed it directly from Spain hence the name. As a real estate structure in more developed economies it would be lumped under the following labels of pooled investmen, cooperative investment, buyer led financing. One can of course tweak it, have their onw variation and put their own lable and that's fine but from a buyers standpoint basically the same. From a credit standpoint it's also basically the same and it's not only my opinion but BDO's as well as their familiar with both developments.

bustero

August 9th, 2006, 12:15 PM

I cannot agree with you more on this line. However, the question I would pose to you is...

We have established that there is a degree of connectedness...

How then would you determine if their acts are purely independent and not in collusion (or vice versa)? It is a speculation, but how do you get down to the facts?

I don't think people have the luxury to just wait and find out when it is already too late.

Of course it is the ideal to start with infinite reliable information, the reality is not as tenable.Inreality too , it's not to hard for a truly intersted buyer to get an appointment with berkely so or rallye martinez as they'll surely talk to clients in a multimillion peso deal and get the goods from them directly. There will be enough informtion needed to start any sort of investigation from whatever they claim. sooner or later the timing becomes an issue as one may not have the information they want and Ultimately This is up to the individual buyer... to make a decision on what limited information they may have at any time. They will make their own decision based on whatever analysis and indeed speculation they wish to make. We are all free to make our own opinions no matter how baseless or well informed they may be.

Now given limited information one can start from a premise of asssumption of guilt by association or assumption of goodwill and proceed with logic from there. Now one can easily build a tenable case that it's a no good project because they share directors and it's the same company after all , everything can be rationalized if you're smart enough. This is the very same thing I posted to Cynch with regards to her comment about Allied bank. You can start with the premise of believing all things are at their most negative and have a logical conclusion that the banks or projects will fail. The reality is though is that there is huge amounts of reasonableness that should be applied. When two companies with similar directors but different majority owners and managers exist, you can make the case it's the same people who are doing the same projects but the question is it reasonable?

I've not met berkeley so is but have met rallye and Ricky, I have not dealt with them in business but have no reason to expect them to screw people. I also do know you wont get them to fork over money if it will be detrimental to the success of their project and tarnish their repution. And I've not heard of anyone putting in any money to Philrealty except the Ortigas Clan who owns it anyway. These are what I know. But if any one wants to question whether these are facts is fine with me people can go ahead and find out for themselves anyway even if they find my statements credible. I only ask that the test of these statement being logical and reasonable be applied.

macky

August 9th, 2006, 07:59 PM

Wow!! I must say that this is one heck of a very imformative and intelligent forum exchanges i've read so far. I've learned a lot of informations and honest opinions listening from both sides of the spectrum and especially coming from two experts with in their respective industry. THIS IS A MUST READ INFORMATIONS for the prospective condo buyers, and thank you gentlemen for shedding some light upon this important subject matter. As for me, i'd rather deal and put my money down on the straight shooter.

laquacherra

August 10th, 2006, 04:51 AM

^^ i second that. in my case, ALI was it

bustero

August 10th, 2006, 05:58 AM

am happy you guys find this infomative. I'd just be worried if the perceptions created by the posts in this thread might lead to labels of being non straight shooters or reliable, primarily on baseless surmises. It's exactly that which I'm fighting against.

laquacherra

August 10th, 2006, 10:29 AM

i happen to work for a company which has been dealing with the LT group for years. imo medyo barat nga lang sila pero fair naman. i was invited to the launch of chateau de noble but i couldn't make it. personally, i consider having LT behind this project to be a big plus... enough to make me consider it. BUT see i'm scared of heights so a high rise just isn't for me.

bustero

August 10th, 2006, 11:24 AM

^^for some reason I thought you worked in the states!

laquacherra

August 11th, 2006, 07:19 AM

nah, closer to ortigas center than to orange county hehe! (borrowed that line from ya) :)

3cr

August 12th, 2006, 11:22 PM

Definitely good lessons to be learned here. Thank You Bustero and Gibson. :) :) :)

Btw Thanks for posting these articles Peter...
Latest News Clips from Colliers Jardine

Allied Bank Forges P1-B Condo JV In Fort Boni
Manila Standard 7/21/06
Allied Banking Corp., owned by taipan Lucio Tan, and property developer Winville Development Corp., have teamed up to put up a P1 billion
high-end condominium project in Fort Bonifacio, Taguig City. The 40-story condominium project, called Château de Noblê, is designed and
master planned by international architectural company CCO Design Ltd. And world-renowned WSP Group Hong Kong Ltd. construction of
the project would start next year for completion by 2010. Fort Bonifacio Development Corp. last year sold a mixed-use lot at the E-Square
district to Allied Bank in trust for Winville. Winville will also organize a group of investors who will partly finance to the development of the
project. Allied Bank has agreed to provide investors financing arrangements at market interest rates and credit term of 12 to 15 years.

Philrealty Turns Around To P323-M Profit In 2005
Tribune 7/29/06
From a net loss of P94.4 million in 2004, Philippine Realty and Holdings Corp. was able to rebound to a P323.8 million profit last year. This
significant turnaround, according to the company’s report filed with Securities and Exchange Commission, resulted from the reversal of
excess accrued interest in accordance with the court approved rehabilitation program, as well as from a marked increase in equity earnings.
Philrealty started payment of interest on its restructured loan since December 2005. Consolidated gross revenues reached P507 million, an
increase of 223% from P157 million in 2004. Rental income also rose by 22.1% as prime areas were leased out. A sharp increase in equity
earnings, almost double, amounted to P70.14 million from P37.31 million in 2004. The company’s diversified investments were major revenue
sources, notably investments in International Exchange Bank and A. Brown Co. Inc. Net earnings of I-Bank surged by 55.2% to P803.8 million,
while A Brown Co. Inc. posted a 36.5% increase to P40.4 million in 2005.

Gibson@G&W

August 24th, 2006, 04:39 AM

Definitely good lessons to be learned here. Thank You Bustero and Gibson. :) :) :)

Btw Thanks for posting these articles Peter...

Thanks for posting the article...this is indeed good news.

However, I noticed something...I might be wrong though....

<The company’s diversified investments were major revenue
sources, notably investments in International Exchange Bank and A. Brown Co. Inc. Net earnings of I-Bank surged by 55.2% to P803.8 million,
while A Brown Co. Inc. posted a 36.5% increase to P40.4 million in 2005.>

Philrealty is a minor stockholder in I-Bank, and first time I read this article, it seems like they are the major stockholder of the Php 803.8 Million in profits for this investment. However, Php 803.8 Million is the total earning of I-Bank (form a very close source who works at I-Bank), not the earning of the minority stake of Philrealty. I am not saying the news is objectivly incorrect...it is correct, but it is very easy to make assumptions that are not correct just by reading it.

Also, I believe these stakes have already been sold early this year in a buy out of the bank.

Anyway, I guess my point is, there are news that can make the image of a company look bad when it is not really that bad (learning from bustero), but there are also news that will make a company look better than it really is.

It is hard to tell by just reading one article, and not knowing related news about a topic. I am sure there are a lot of related news with these articles that I/We don't know about.

theOCdiva

August 24th, 2006, 07:57 AM

Wow! Amazing info but it makes me more confused :? ! Sorry for being so naïve about this whole imbroglio but you guys are scaring me! Did not understand all of it as I do not know these big players. But when it was said Ayala is reliable, I breathed a sigh of relief.

I may sound so simpleton, but would inclusion of TITLE INSURANCE, upheld and policed by gov’t regulations, to all real estate transactions, be a smart move to improving the health of the RE industry in the country? A Title Insurance would protect all buyers and entice would-be buyers to invest and more so, fall in love with the country again and maybe, convert expats into ex-expats! If things get messed up, at least the lowly buyer would get his/her money back (no offense meant; I say lowly compared to the scheming hi-finance Filipino taipans and dynasties). Consider Mexico – millions of foreigners (US, Canadians, others) now own properties thru fideicomiso (Mexican trust). They do not own the land outright, especially coastal land, but are the beneficiaries to it - build, sell, or will it. And how are they protected? Title Insurance!

Just one opinion from a lowly buyer who may be an ex-expat someday, if things do improve to her liking. :)

and I agree with 3cr, maybe this topic should be moved to some other thread..

geebeng

October 24th, 2006, 08:42 AM

I still like this project, the design maybe comparable to One Mckinley, location is great, the best units maybe higher floors facing Pacific Plaza and City Center or units facing Bellagios might also get a partial Makati Skyline view. Did they already start pre-selling? I tried searching for their website but did not get anything other than this thread.

thomasian

October 24th, 2006, 12:58 PM

http://www.winville.com.ph
--------------------------------

Location Map
http://www.winville.com.ph/images/big_map.jpg

Interior Pics

http://www.winville.com.ph/images/big_int01.jpg

http://www.winville.com.ph/images/big_int02.jpg

http://www.winville.com.ph/images/big_int03.jpg

http://www.winville.com.ph/images/big_int04.jpg

http://www.winville.com.ph/images/big_int05.jpg

http://www.winville.com.ph/images/big_int06.jpg

Unit floor plans

http://www.winville.com.ph/images/floorplan01.jpg

http://www.winville.com.ph/images/floorplan02.jpg

Edmundtanso

October 24th, 2006, 04:55 PM

nice renderings..thanks thomasian

laquacherra

October 25th, 2006, 03:23 AM

they could have used a more updated map IMO :)

geebeng

October 25th, 2006, 06:38 AM

awesome floor plan, nice model units. thanks for posting the renderings and the website link thomasian.

tootsjap

October 25th, 2006, 02:42 PM

The Robinsons Land project adjacent to this one will likely cover the Makati and golf course view of this project.

geebeng

October 26th, 2006, 05:59 AM

Is the lot below Chateu in the map owned by Robinsons? What is the FAR of that lot?

realtor_manila

December 31st, 2006, 07:14 AM

The latest about the Chateau De Noble project..... They have stopped selling the project.... In fact, their sales office at Bonifacio Global City (BGC) is closed for business. Current sales are not as encouraging, so they have to go back to the drawing board and change the sizes of the units there.

Condominium development requires a lot of technical and marketing expertise. Having deep pockets or financial resources does not guarantee success in this business.

In general, new players in the real estate industry have to go through a steep learning curve to perfect the process. It's not as easy at it seems....

laquacherra

December 31st, 2006, 08:05 AM

realtor_manila

December 31st, 2006, 09:51 AM

^^ thanks for the update, cynch! i agree, it's not as easy as it looks BUT i thought the LT groups is active in in the real estate industry abroad? HK in particular if i'm not mistaken. and china. coz if so then they'd still have some experience in projects such as this.

Probably, he's in the financing side of the project or they're into joint ventures, wherein the other partner does all the work.

3cr

February 19th, 2007, 09:43 PM

What ever happened to the Lucio Tan's Chateau De Noble project in Fort Boni? Any updates guys/gals?

from Businessworld Online
BY JENNEE GRACE U. RUBRICO, Sub-Editor

Property development new focus for taipan Lucio Tan

The Lucio Tan Group is strengthening its presence in the Philippine real estate sector with the creation of a property development firm, an official of the new company said.

Danilo Ignacio, incoming president and chief operating officer of Eton Properties Philippines Inc., told BusinessWorld the firm is in the process of completing its articles of incorporation.

Eton Properties Philippines carries the name of Mr. Tan’s property firm in China, Eton Properties.

The latter has a mixed-use project in Shanghai called the Eton Place, which has a hotel, office building, condominium and mall. It also developed the Eton Properties Commercial building in Xiamen.

"We (Eton Philippines) are part of the Lucio Tan Group of companies," Mr. Ignacio, who used to be with Gokongwei-owned property firm Robinsons Land Corp. (RLC), said.

He said that the ownership structure of Eton — including which Lucio Tan firm would be owning it, and whether Eton China will be holding a stake in it — is still being worked out.

As of February 16, Eton Philippines’ articles of incorporation were not yet posted in the Securities and Exchange Commission’s i-Report electronic database.

Eton Philippines will be a start-up company but the firm is aiming to become a leading real estate developer.

As part of the Lucio Tan group, Eton will have access to the properties held by other companies owned by the taipan, including non-performing assets of Allied Banking Corp. and the Philippine National Bank.

"Mr. Tan has one of the biggest landholdings in the country," a source from the firm said.

Eton also claims to have a "very extensive landbank", with properties in the Makati central business district, Ortigas business district, Manila, Pasay, Parañaque, Quezon City, Pasig, and also in the provinces.

The firm has been posting advertisements for personnel over the past few weeks.

Danilo A. Antonio, property expert of the Asian Institute of Management, said the good real estate environment and Mr. Tan’s extensive landbank may have pushed the taipan to become more active in the real estate business.

"The environment is okay ... plus he has to move the acquired assets of PNB and Allied Bank," he said.

Allied Bank’s statements of condition show the bank owned or acquired properties amounting to P5.6 billion as of December 2006, from P4.13 billion as of December 2006.

PNB, for its part, owned or acquired P19.3 billion worth of properties as of December 2006, from P25.7 billion in December 2005.

Sources said Eton will be focusing on medium end residential projects, making it the first firm under Mr. Tan to venture into the residential property sector.

The firm, however, is not Mr. Tan’s first property company. The group has an existing real estate firm, Landcom Realty Corp., which acquires and manages property for Mr. Tan and his firms.

"Landcom also develops property but the development is few and far between," the source from the Lucio Tan group said.

Mr. Tan also owns Century Park Hotel in Pasay City and The Charter House in Makati.

Other firms in the Lucio Tan group include tobacco firm Fortune Tobacco Corp., Asia Brewery Inc., Tanduay Distilleries. Inc., and Philippine Airlines.

complete article at http://www.bworldonline.com/BW021907/content.php

realtor_manila

February 20th, 2007, 02:56 AM

What ever happened to the Lucio Tan's Chateau De Noble project in Fort Boni? Any updates guys/gals?

They stopped selling the project. The showroom is closed.

IsaRic

February 20th, 2007, 04:18 AM

They stopped selling the project. The showroom is closed.

so this project is down the drain?

realtor_manila

February 20th, 2007, 04:41 AM

so this project is down the drain?

I really don't know.

3 or 4 mos after their project launching, they stopped selling; this is supposed to be Winville's first project in Fort Boni. However, this sign shows that it was NOT a good start....

c0kelitr0

February 20th, 2007, 04:42 AM

what?!

laquacherra

February 20th, 2007, 05:58 AM

or is it that the KapiTAN sees something in the horizon that we can't/don't?

portludlow

February 20th, 2007, 07:37 AM

Lucio Tan set to register own property firm
By Jenniffer B. Austria

Airline and tobacco magnate Lucio Tan has formed a new real estate company called Eton Properties Inc. to take advantage of the booming property industry.

Informed sources said that the new company would file its registration papers with the Securities and Exchange Commission this week before making a formal announcement on Feb. 27.

Eton, aiming to become one of the largest property companies in the Philippines, plans to develop residential condominiums and housing, office buildings, condotel, commercial centers and leisure and retirement projects.

The country’s leading property developers include Ayala Land Inc., which is the real estate arm of conglomerate Ayala Corp., Robinsons Land Corp. of the Gokongwei group, Megaworld Corp. of industrialist Andrew Tan, Filinvest Land Inc. of the Gotianun family and the SM group, through SM Prime Holdings and SM Development Corp.

Tan owns cigarette maker Fortune Tobacco Corp., Asia Brewery Inc., Allied Banking Corp., Philippine Airlines, Philippine National Bank, University of the East and liquor maker Tanduay Holdings. He has interests in livestock, chemical trading, mining beverage and bottled water. He is also known to have extensive investments in China, Hong Kong and Guam.

Tan is often listed by foreign publications as the richest businessman in the Philippines. Forbes Magazine said he had a net worth of $1.7 billion and recently ranked him 12th on its list of the 40 richest people in Southeast Asia.

He might just be changing a better partner to develop his properties.:?

realtor_manila

February 20th, 2007, 01:13 PM

Considering that Lucio Tan got Danilo Ignacio as CEO/COO of Eton Properties, I expect that the product lines will be similar to Robinson's Land. I also expect that Eton Properties will have a project in Bonifacio Global City (BGC) . :-)

Well, it will be really exciting!

laquacherra

February 21st, 2007, 04:02 AM

^^ so it is possible that chateau de noble will be repackaged with eton properties taking over from winville

realtor_manila

February 21st, 2007, 05:02 AM

^^ so it is possible that chateau de noble will be repackaged with eton properties taking over from winville

Actually, that's what I'm thinking! Let's see.....

bustero

February 21st, 2007, 08:36 AM

Well here's a clue as to what he's been up to.

And contrary to what is believed Lucio Tan Group actually has extensive Real Estate experience, it's just that it's outside of the country. It's very likely that his HongKOng operations alone will be larger than most of the largest Real Estate Companies here.

Lucio Tan joins Greenbelt race

February 21, 2007

taipan-lucio-tan.gifTAIPAN Lucio Tan is moving right into the turf of the Ayalas, and is building a high-end residential condo right across the upscale Greenbelt mall while the real estate market is still on the upward trajectory.

Tan is demolishing the 10-storey, 1978-era Philippine Airlines building on Legaspi St. to give way to a high-rise condo to be named Eton Greenbelt Residences, Cocktales has confirmed.

And, as if to underline the class A-and-B image of his new baby, the frugal taipan has agreed to move next week’s launch/press conference from his decor-challenged Chinese restaurant in the Allied Bank building to the Shangri-La Edsa Plaza hotel.

Moreover, the media-allergic dollar billionaire will himself be present at the press conference and is even bringing along his younger brother Harry to take questions from nosy newsmen.

Unknown to the local public who are used to his low-cost image, Tan actually owns a couple of European style-boutique hotels in Hong Kong, also under the Eton brand.
In Shanghai, Tan has soft-opened the 462-room five-star Eton Hotel right in the heart of the Pudong financial district, targetting Western business travellers.

Going back to PAL, the relocation of airline personnel has actually started quietly, with the transfer of the backroom operations to the Ricogen building on Gamboa St., behind the Asian Institute of Management.

The administrative services staff, in the meantime, are being moved to the new NAIA Terminal 3, hopefully in time for next month’s opening of the much-delayed facility.

The ticketing and other front-line services will, however, still be maintained within the Ayala business district, most likely at the Allied Bank building which has a wide and pedestrian-accessible frontage not only along Ayala Avenue but beside a leafy walkway which it shares with PLDT.

laquacherra

February 21st, 2007, 08:48 AM

hm... but after what happened to the first high rise condo project he launched, they'd have to be pretty more convincing this time around imo

Well here's a clue as to what he's been up to.

And contrary to what is believed Lucio Tan Group actually has extensive Real Estate experience, it's just that it's outside of the country. It's very likely that his HongKOng operations alone will be larger than most of the largest Real Estate Companies here.

Lucio Tan joins Greenbelt race

February 21, 2007

taipan-lucio-tan.gifTAIPAN Lucio Tan is moving right into the turf of the Ayalas, and is building a high-end residential condo right across the upscale Greenbelt mall while the real estate market is still on the upward trajectory.

Tan is demolishing the 10-storey, 1978-era Philippine Airlines building on Legaspi St. to give way to a high-rise condo to be named Eton Greenbelt Residences, Cocktales has confirmed.

bustero

February 21st, 2007, 09:27 AM

Actually I'm really curious as to the facts behind this project. We've really only speculated. Is it really closed na ba.

3cr

February 22nd, 2007, 01:25 AM

Does this mean Chateau de Noble in FBGC has fallen by the wayside indefinitely? Dang another tall one on the back burner. Not even a mention of the said project in the article below. Gives the impression the Makati project will be more of a priority for Lucio Tan for now...

Guess there's much more fire behind the smoke.

Vol. XX, No. 148
Thursday, February 22, 2007 | MANILA, PHILIPPINES

Today’s Headlines

By JENNEE GRACE U. RUBRICO, Sub-Editor
Backdoor listing for Tan firm
Holding firm Balabac Resources now property developer Eton Properties

Taipan Lucio Tan has listed his newly established property development firm at the Philippine Stock Exchange - and he did so via the back door.

In a special meeting called yesterday by publicly listed Tan firm Balabac Resources and Holdings Co. Inc., stockholders approved a change in name to Eton Properties Philippines Inc. Stockholders also changed the firm’s primary function to property development from a holding company that had oil exploration interests.

During the meeting, all Balabac officials resigned and were replaced by Eton executives, led by Mr. Tan himself as chairman. The firm also moved its general stockholders meeting to April 10 from February 23.

By changing Balabac’s name and primary function, Eton Properties, a firm that BusinessWorld reported that Mr. Tan created to be his vehicle for property development, became a publicly-listed company without having to comply with stock exchange requirements for companies planning to go public.

The PSE’s listing guidelines state that firms seeking to stage an initial public offering should have a track record of profitable operations for three years, a market capitalization of P500 million, and a five-year operating history.

Other requirements include a cumulative consolidated pre-tax profit of at least P50 million, and a minimum pre-tax profit of P10 million for each of the three years immediately preceding the application for listing.

Asked if the move was indeed a backdoor listing, an Eton official told BusinessWorld, "That’s the beauty of it. Eton does not have to wait five years [to be listed]."

Eton, in a statement issued following the special stockholders’ meeting, said the move was "part of the company’s overall resutructuring to establish itself as one of the leading property developers in the country."

The company also said its first project will be to develop the building owned by Philippine Airlines Inc. - also a Lucio Tan firm - in Legaspi Village, Makati into a residential condominium project.

"We are already talking with PAL. The condominium project will be called Eton Greenbelt Residences," Eton Properties President Danilo Ignacio said.

Danilo A. Antonio, Asian Institute of Management property expert, said Mr. Tan was in a hurry to list at the bourse to give Eton Philippines legitimacy.

"Being listed assumes that a firm has financial discipline. This legitimizes Mr. Tan’s real estate presence, and shows that he is now serious in real estate," he said.

Being listed also provides the property firm easier access to funds and an exit mechanism, making the firm attractive to investors, he said.

Mr. Antonio also said a listed property developer is believed to have strong credibility, allowing it to sell projects easily.

"By having a listed presence for real estate, Mr. Tan is now a complete taipan, as he was for the longest time the only taipan without a presence in real estate," Mr. Antonio added.

Analysts, however, noted that volatility in Balabac’s share prices.

"The share price is quite volatile. Investors don’t really want to move in too much yet, the recent move from P3 to P2 is just too much," Jasper Jimenez, a broker from BDO Securities Corp., said.

Shares in Balabac reached as high as P3 on Tuesday before closing at P2.48. The shares closed yesterday at P2.20, down 11.29% or 28 centavos. The PSE had not indicated as of press time whether there was a need to suspend the trading of the new company’s shares.

"We have yet to find out the strategy of its management, but it’s a stock to watch out for. However, if you look at the track record of most of Lucio Tan’s companies, they’re usually not that liquid," said Astro del Castillo, managing director of First Grade Holdings, Inc.

Ron Rodrigo, head of research for Unicapital Securities, Inc., said Balabac’s shift in focus would help the company in the long term.

"It’s a good move, the property uptrend is not here for the short term. Property companies are earning well in both the business process outsourcing and residential segments, and this phenomenon might be here for quite some time."

Ed Bancod, head of research for brokerage ATR-Kim Eng Securities, Inc., said the entry of a new and active company could be a boon for the local bourse.

"From the investors’ standpoint, as long as you’re increasing the depth and breadth of the market, it’s good for the market. For the longest time, the dilemma of the stock exchange was that there weren’t enough companies listed. Now there are a lot of follow-on offerings, while small companies are turning into real investment possibilities."

He added that the company’s shift to a high-growth sector was likely a good move.

"We’re at the early stages of the upswing in the property sector, property is expected to grow at a rapid pace in the next five years."

He noted that listed companies could also benefit from tax incentives, as well as raise additional capital in the future.

The Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) said Mr. Tan did not violate any rules in renaming Balabac and changing its purpose. Commission Secretary Gerard M. Lukban said changing the name of a listed company and its line of business is permitted as long as the company’s owners remain the same.

"If he (Mr. Tan) owns Balabac and he decides to change its name and purpose, it’s still the same company," he said.

But he added that the firm would have to apply for an amendment of its articles of incorporation at the SEC, unless its new purpose was listed as the original firm’s secondary purpose.

While Balabac’s primary purpose is as a holding firm, it lists real estate development as among its secondary purposes.

Claire Quiray, an analyst from Accord Capital Equities Corp., said the PSE was unlikely to significantly penalize the company.

"The PSE has always monitored companies that don’t disclose enough information. They can put brokers and listed companies under increased surveillance, but aside from that, it won’t be able to do much. The rules on backdoor listing are rather vague."

Eton Properties Philippines carries the name of Mr. Tan’s property firm in China, Eton Properties, but Mr. Ignacio said it is completely Filipino-owned. The firm is a start-up company, but will have access to the properties held by other companies owned by the taipan, including non-performing assets of Allied Banking Corp. and Philippine National Bank.

Allied Bank’s statements of condition show that the bank owned or acquired properties amounting to P5.6 billion as of December 2006, from P4.13 billion as of December 2006. PNB, for its part, owned or acquired P19.3 billion worth of properties as of December 2006, from P25.7 billion in December 2005.

The firm is not the first property company of Mr. Tan. The group has an existing real estate firm, Landcom Realty Corp., which acquires and manages property for Mr. Tan and his companies. Mr. Tan also owns Century Park Hotel in Pasay City and The Charter House in Makati. — with reports from Allan E. Lalisan and Bernardette S. Sto. Domingo