Another tall proposal for Leeds deserves its own thread.

This is what skyscrapernews says about it:


Marshall Street residential tower


An outline planning application has been made for this residential tower by SJS Property Management, linked to the major redevelopment of the listed Temple Works site in the newly emerging Holbeck Urban Village, immediately south of the city centre. The proposed tower would be geographically close to Jan Fletcher Properties Ltd's proposed 40 storey 'City 1' further along Sweet Street.


Companies
Architect David Lock Associates Ltd
Developer SJS Property Management Ltd
Reference Data
Reference No. 2914
Editorial Date 1/7/2005
Planning Application Number 20/30405OT
Address Sweet Street and Marshall Street, Leeds, LS11 9DE
Council Leeds City Council
County West Yorkshire
Region Yorkshire and Humber
Country United Kingdom
Building Specification
Status Pre Planning
Proposal date 2005

Height (roof) 83.00 *

Floors (O.G) 26
Market Data
Primary Use Residential
Secondary Use Office

Flats 934

Metric > Feet
* Estimated Height

Another tall proposal for Leeds deserves its own thread.

This is what skyscrapernews says about it:


Marshall Street residential tower


An outline planning application has been made for this residential tower by SJS Property Management, linked to the major redevelopment of the listed Temple Works site in the newly emerging Holbeck Urban Village, immediately south of the city centre. The proposed tower would be geographically close to Jan Fletcher Properties Ltd's proposed 40 storey 'City 1' further along Sweet Street.


Companies
Architect David Lock Associates Ltd
Developer SJS Property Management Ltd
Reference Data
Reference No. 2914
Editorial Date 1/7/2005
Planning Application Number 20/30405OT
Address Sweet Street and Marshall Street, Leeds, LS11 9DE
Council Leeds City Council
County West Yorkshire
Region Yorkshire and Humber
Country United Kingdom
Building Specification
Status Pre Planning
Proposal date 2005

Height (roof) 83.00 *

Floors (O.G) 26
Market Data
Primary Use Residential
Secondary Use Office

Flats 934

Metric > Feet
* Estimated Height
Just imagine this in close proximity to the 40-storey City One and Bridgewater Place, and if a tower gets built where the Hindle building presently occupies (and there had been rumours of a 44-storey there), you've got quite a few highrises south of the river. If all these, plus Criterion, Venture, Monkbridge and Globe Road get built, this will make quite a spectacular skyline.

Just imagine this in close proximity to the 40-storey City One and Bridgewater Place, and if a tower gets built where the Hindle building presently occupies (and there had been rumours of a 44-storey there), you've got quite a few highrises south of the river. If all these, plus Criterion, Venture, Monkbridge and Globe Road get built, this will make quite a spectacular skyline.



Whats the crack on the rumoured 44 storey tower on the site of the Hindle building. Any info ps60?

Whats the crack on the rumoured 44 storey tower on the site of the Hindle building. Any info ps60?
Its more based on an older thread, someone saying a 44-storey tower was breing built opposite BWP, but also saying it wasn't Criterion Place but something else. Still, it would be nice to get a 44 or higher on that Hindle site, but we'd better wait and see what happens, and not get anyones hopes up.

This obviously hasn't been well publicised but SJS, the developers, are publicising their plans for Marshall Street and the Temple Mill. I just happened to spot a poster in the Pickled Pepper's window yesterday. The two August dates have gone but you still have a chance to view on 2/3 Sept and 9/10 Sept, both between 4 and 7.30pm. The exhibition is in the Temple Mill.

This obviously hasn't been well publicised but SJS, the developers, are publicising their plans for Marshall Street and the Temple Mill. I just happened to spot a poster in the Pickled Pepper's window yesterday. The two August dates have gone but you still have a chance to view on 2/3 Sept and 9/10 Sept, both between 4 and 7.30pm. The exhibition is in the Temple Mill.

Bum, slight of issue of geography stopping me attending, but anyone who does get along and gets the lowdown on Temple Mill would be in my debt for a pint at the next meet! :cheers:

Anyhoo, is the Mill empty now? i thought with was occupied by Energis or a distribution company - but if they're gone already it really gets things going. Vacant site is a huge bonus - London seems to suffer with most of its schemes are they are proposed in already populated locations with existing tenants and a long demolition scheduled before any actual construction can begin.

I have some more details on this one. There are 13 individual buildings, with the tallest as you know at 26 storeys. The concept drawings list the elevation of the tallest at 83m, and shows it covering a small area in the north-east corner of the development. There were no renderings at all, and little info on how the buildings would actually look. The development will also include 18000 sqaure meteres of office space.

I viewed a week last Friday and obtained a brochure containing the proposals (sorry got no scanner). Very ambitious and exciting. I particularly like the proposed transformation of the Temple itself to a retail/cultural experience.

Taken From The YEP

Plan for historic mill could bring 3,000 jobs
By DAVID MARSH
COUNCILLORS have called for more talks over multi-million pound plans to regenerate one of Leeds' most historic buildings as part of a scheme which could create 3,000 jobs.
Developers want to renovate the Egyptian-style Temple Mill in Holbeck, right, and convert it into a "cultural retail" quarter which would include displays, exhibitions as well as shops.
At an estimated cost of up to £20m, the conversion forms part of a much wider £180m proposal which would change the face of a large part of Holbeck.The developer, London-based SJS Property Management, also wants to transform a nearby site to the south of Sweet Street West.
Its plans include demolishing the former Reality and Shop Direct buildings and replace them with a total of 934 flats in 13 blocks, offices and a community centre.Centrepiece of the scheme would be a 36-storey tower in the north-west corner of the site.
Temple Mill has been described as the most remarkable industrial building in Leeds. The flax-spinning mill in Marshall Street was built between 1838 and 1840 for John Marshall, founder of the Leeds flax industry. Designed by Joseph Bonomi, it is based on the Temple of Horus at Edfu. It had a grass roof which SJS intends to replace.
The council's city centre plans panel heard the mill was structurally unstable and would continue to deteriorate unless major repairs and improvements were carried out.
Opportunity
In a presentation to the panel, Mr Chris Hall, SJS's planning director, said: "The Temple Quarter will include a cultural retail element unique in the UK. It presents a new opportunity for employment, living and leisure.
"The scheme does not require a penny from the public purse and will secure the future of one of the most iconic buildings in Leeds."
Coun Elizabeth Minkin (Lab, Kirkstall) said: "We all welcome investment in this world-class building but it requires more debate and dialogue for us to explore and fully understand it."
david.marsh@ypn.co.uk
21 September, 2005

where did you get the brochure from fred?

where did you get the brochure from fred?

From the Temple Mill itself. There was an exhibition open at certain times that was advertised. I went on Friday 2 Serptember.

Here are the contact details:-

SJS Property Management Ltd.

Chris Hall
Planning and Development Director
3rd Floor
86 Jermyn Street
London SW1Y 6JD

0207 004 7080

Here's the front of Temple Mill - I posted this earlier on the HUV thread - but the front is so unique......150 yrs old yet a taste of ancient Egypt captured in industrial Yorkshire, I thought I had to post it again.

I envision a Salts Mill like development, a mix of galleries, upper end shopping, restaurants and apartments. Excellent.

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/198/img01641da.jpg

Any news on the tower? Its been quiet for a long time..

big projects seem to have a long period before action. I don't expect this to start anytime soon. City One however I feel may start late next year- maybe hmm

I think this thread may need to change its name.

:badnews:


This Thursday's meeting of the City Centre Plans Panel will consider an outline application from SJS for the southern section of the Temple Works development site. I enclose below a filleted version of the report, from Leeds City Council's website, which the Panel will consider.

Application: 20/304/05/OT
Applicant: SJS Property Management Ltd.
Proposal: Outline application to erect 66,160 sq. m. of residential floor space (some 830 flats), 14,357 sq. m. of office floor space, 37 x class B1 workspace units (2,986 sq. m.), a medical centre, a community centre, crèche, gym and 12x class A1 to A5 shop units (total of 3,325 sq. m.)


Proposal:
This is an outline application relating to a large site to the south of Sweet Street West. Consent is sought for siting, access and the scale and use of buildings only at this stage. It is proposed to demolish the existing buildings and erect 17 blocks arranged around 6 courtyard style spaces, located north and south of a central spine road. The blocks would generally range between 6 to 8 storeys high but also include a 15 storey tower in the north-west corner of the site. A mixture of uses are proposed but with a predominance of residential floor space, particularly at the upper levels. It is anticipated that about 830 flats can be provided (66,160 sq. m.) but the detailed design has been reserved. The office buildings would be sited towards the Marshall Street frontage comprising about 14,500 sq. m. of floor space. 37 workshop spaces (class B1) would be located at ground floor level along the main road frontages (2,986 sq. m.). 12 small shop size units are proposed mainly along Sweet Street West to provide a range of retail, food and drink outlets (total of 960 sq. m.). An ancillary community and medical centre use is also proposed at the western end of the central spine road (700 sq. m.) and a crèche and gym are proposed within the office complex adjacent to Marshall Street (1,665 sq. m.). 1,093 car parking spaces, 1,021 cycle parking spaces and 117 motorcycle spaces are proposed, generally at basement level except for some limited surface parking to serve the shop size units along Sweet Street West and the medical and community centre. Wide pavements, pedestrian routes and public open spaces are proposed equating to 33% of the site area in total.


APPRAISAL
The revised proposals seek to create an urban grain based on a traditional grid
pattern. The spaces between the blocks allow opportunity for pedestrian permeability through the site as well as landscaped courtyards for outdoor recreation to serve the future occupiers. The main routes through the site would be treated with high quality landscaping and would be tree lined, giving priority to pedestrian movement.….The public open spaces are considered to comprise a pocket park, a courtyard space, a north-south wholly pedestrian link and a glazed atrium space (17.5% of the total site area). Although not meeting the minimum policy requirement of 20% of the total site area in themselves, they would be augmented by the generous widths of the pavements, up to 8.2m wide in some areas, which would allow opportunity for street seating and outdoor seating areas for café type uses. ….The proposals include widening of and re-surfacing of Sweet Street West, surface improvement works to Marshall Street, provision of pedestrian crossings on Nineveh Road and Sweet Street West at their junction with Marshall Street, improvements to local cycle links and an improved pedestrian route to the residential area and community facilities to the south.

The revised scale of the buildings (generally 8 storeys but with a 15 storey block in the north-west corner) would not be visible from the north side of Temple Mill and Marshall Mills (on the approach along Marshall Street) or from the proposed public space on Leodis Court identified in the Holbeck Urban Village Planning Framework. The 6 and 8 storey blocks would be visible over the roof of the Commercial Pub at the junction of Sweet Street and Marshall Street (within the boundary of the Holbeck Conservation area) and over the former library building at the Nineveh Road and Marshall Street junction but these historic buildings are already dominated in scale by the larger warehouse buildings in the immediate context.

It is disappointing, to say the least, to learn that the 26-storey tower included in the original proposal has been reduced in scale to the 15-storey block now under consideration. Planning councillors were concerned at the proposed tower's height when the developers took a presentation to the Panel last autumn. On the other hand, it's encouraging to see that proposals (even at outline stage) are moving on this project. I assume that projected income from this element will go to fund the restoration of Temple Mill itself.

I wouldnt be suprised to see a 26 storey or higher tower pop up down the road in the not too distant future, particularly with the expansion of the city centre. Even with the expanding city centre though, it is still a way from the core centre so I dont think a tal lbuilding here is 'essential' as it may be at Criterion, Lumiere, BWP areas

Rather good news, aviator, don't jump off the roof yet! Don't think that Holbeck should be built with high rises anyway.

I dont think it should either, however I do think moving away from Holbeck towards Crown Point Retail Park and on to Clarence Dock it should be denser.

what would we rather have...... Temple Mill restored and opened to the public, or a 26 storey tower?

No. 1 everytime (not you Champ :)). Agree, shame they have scaled down the original proposals, but to keep this scheme alive with the centrepiece intact should be the prerogative.

thread title should be Temple Mill, that says it all for me.

Browsing through the Civic Trust's website, I came across this from their September newsletter:

"In contrast, on what was one of the only really wet evenings in August, the Committee was shown round the Holbeck Urban Village by planners responsible for its regeneration........We saw the famous 'Egyptian' Temple Mill but were informed that the plans for its restoration have been withdrawn - what will happen now? The Holbeck team has plans for new open spaces and repaved streets which could help transform the area. We looked into Tower Works - Yorkshire Forward has asked the Civic Trust to contribute to the selection of the developer for this important site. Finally, bedraggled, we made it to the village pub!"


This is the first I've heard of this development (or even lack of!!). The outline application went to the City Centre Plans Panel in June and was approved subject to (not very onerous) conditions. However, this application was only for the new build to be sited to the south of Temple Mill itself. My recollection of the presentation which the developers put on last year was that this part of the development would fund the work to be undertaken on the mill. It is disappointing, to say the least, to hear this news and makes me wonder what SJS propose to do with the mill.

Browsing through the Civic Trust's website, I came across this from their September newsletter:

"In contrast, on what was one of the only really wet evenings in August, the Committee was shown round the Holbeck Urban Village by planners responsible for its regeneration........We saw the famous 'Egyptian' Temple Mill but were informed that the plans for its restoration have been withdrawn - what will happen now? The Holbeck team has plans for new open spaces and repaved streets which could help transform the area. We looked into Tower Works - Yorkshire Forward has asked the Civic Trust to contribute to the selection of the developer for this important site. Finally, bedraggled, we made it to the village pub!"


This is the first I've heard of this development (or even lack of!!). The outline application went to the City Centre Plans Panel in June and was approved subject to (not very onerous) conditions. However, this application was only for the new build to be sited to the south of Temple Mill itself. My recollection of the presentation which the developers put on last year was that this part of the development would fund the work to be undertaken on the mill. It is disappointing, to say the least, to hear this news and makes me wonder what SJS propose to do with the mill.

holy cack. :ohno: That's rubbish news. Its a huge scheme in totality, perhaps SJS have bitten off more than they can chew, or perhaps simply can't yet get the funding for the scheme bearing in mind the snails speed progress in the rest of HUV. The building of what is basically a totally new city suburb is always going to take sometime, gradual funding etc etc. Rest assured, something will happen to Temple Mill, might just have to sit on it for the next 5 years and hope it doesn't deteriorate.

Agree it is rubbish news especially as its one of the best unused buildings in Leeds. Woudnt a good idea for an interim use for this building perhaps to hold gigs inside it as wouldnt that bring people to the area and give more artistic credibility to HUV?

http://static.flickr.com/28/67833716_bf7fefb3ce.jpg :ohno:

Maybe they could even use it as an exhibition space which could be possible as doesnt this take up a large area and such a thing would also be good in getting people to this area? What was proposed for this anyway was it if I remember a development similar to Salts Mill?

This one's been bubbling away quietly for a couple of years now but there's news:


WARD: City & Hunslet

Application Number 20/304/05/OT

Applicant: SJS PROPERTY MANAGEMENT LTD

Proposal Outline application to erect 66,160 m2 of residential floorspace, 14,357 m2 of Class B1 (office) floorspace, 2,986 m2 of Class B1 (workspace units), and ancillary Class A uses (960 m2), a community and medical centre use (700 m2) and creche and gym use (1,665 m2), and ancillary car parking and landscaped amenity areas.

Site Sweet Street West And Marshall Street Leeds LS11 9DE

Decision: Approved

Decision Date 29 August 2007

Type Outline Planning Application

Decision Type Committee


Still no news on any plans for Temple Mills but it's good to see some movement. There are also some indicative renders on David Lock Associates' website.



http://www.davidlock.com/Site/images_work/regen2_image1.jpg



http://www.davidlock.com/Site/images_work/regen2_image5.jpg



http://www.davidlock.com/Site/images_work/regen2_image4.jpg

Still no news on any plans for Temple Mills but it's good to see some movement. There are also some indicative renders on David Lock Associates' website.


Oops, I should read things more carefully, shouldn't I?

David Lock's website also has this piece of news:


Proposals for the future of Holbeck, Leeds 08/08/07

David Lock Associates proposals for the future of Holbeck, south of Leeds City Centre have reached an important stage. Phase 1 of the Sweet Street Quarter, a sustainable mix of city living space, shops, leisure and work space has received planning consent. The section 106 agreement has been signed for the 900,000sqft development, allowing the next phase of the proposals to go ahead. The vision for Phase 2 includes the transformation of redundant warehousing and the Grade I listed Flax Mill, Temple Works, into a vibrant cultural addition to the Holbeck Urban Village.

So is this no longer a tower as the title would suggest? Anyway looking at those renders, some of it looks good but the last render doesn't do anything for me. Looks a bit like a glass commie block complex. Great find btw aviator!

I had a further look at this on the website and i find it very dissapointing and unimpressive, its now just a load of very dull similar blocks and its adding quite a substantial amount more apartments on the market which i would prefer to see in decent interesting buildings. Plus they seemed to have completely removed all buildings which would have resembled a tower. I just hope their conversion of templeworks into a cultural building is more imaginative because it would be shame if it was wasted like this.

i totally agree columbus the company are going to build a load of flats and then mabee we can get our cultural facility in temple mill this should be the other way around surely

There's summat afoot here. I took this shot a few weeks ago and posted it somewhere.


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/apm22/21%20March%202008/14March2008002.jpg?t=1206352693



Walking along Sweet Street yesterday, I saw the connecting bridge was being dismantled. I assume it's because of concerns over its safety.



http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/apm22/4%20April%202008/4April2008136.jpg?t=1207298111



http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/apm22/4%20April%202008/4April2008140.jpg?t=1207298159



http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/apm22/4%20April%202008/4April2008139.jpg?t=1207298150

I guess so - it's also sensible timing as the City Council is about to start work to re-open Sweet Street to through-traffic by reopening the road under the railway bridge to connect-though to Sweet Street West. Easier to do it now then when there is lots of through-traffic. Then again, I'm probably giving all concerned far too much credit to be so co-ordinated!

I posted shots a couple of weeks ago of the demolition of the bridge over Sweet Street which used to connect the two sites of the factory. Rich-leeds was, I'm sure, right when he said the demolition could be connected to the imminent reopening of Sweet Street West to vehicles.

But, I drove along Marshall Street after work tonight and noticed that the car park at the southern end of this site has been closed and the diggers are in. I couldn't see any more but will try to have a bit of a scout round to see what's what.

In the meantime, does anybody have any news or wild theories?

double post

Walk past here on my way to work most mornings............ the old 'Kays' is currently been gutted from the inside out......... it's a massive site.

Sweet Street West has been closed off for nearly 30 years now !!!
following serval indicents with double decker buses

I withdraw my theory of co-ordination if all that's also happening on the site. It was a long shot anyway. Sweet Street is being reopened soon, but otherwise the removal of the footbridge just seems to be coincidence.

Good to see some movement here though.

Bit off topic really, but anyone really interested in the Sweet Street reopening can find details here (LINK) (http://www.leeds.gov.uk/moderngov/Published/C00000102/M00002907/AI00010528/$sweetstreetbridgecoverreport26nov.docA.ps.pdf). Yorkshire Frward are paying for the works - over £600k would you believe! Works due to start in June.

Actually, having a proper read, the report reinforces Mikeyp's comment above:

On three occasions within 8 months in 1979, double decker buses hit the span of the bridge resulting in injuries to passengers. Subsequently, the road was closed to through vehicular traffic by means of a point closure at the bridge.

Remarkable that they didn't learn not to drive double deckers under there!

I withdraw my theory of co-ordination if all that's also happening on the site. It was a long shot anyway. Sweet Street is being reopened soon, but otherwise the removal of the footbridge just seems to be coincidence.

Good to see some movement here though.

Bit off topic really, but anyone really interested in the Sweet Street reopening can find details here (LINK) (http://www.leeds.gov.uk/moderngov/Published/C00000102/M00002907/AI00010528/$sweetstreetbridgecoverreport26nov.docA.ps.pdf). Yorkshire Frward are paying for the works - over £600k would you believe! Works due to start in June.

Actually, having a proper read, the report reinforces Mikeyp's comment above:

On three occasions within 8 months in 1979, double decker buses hit the span of the bridge resulting in injuries to passengers. Subsequently, the road was closed to through vehicular traffic by means of a point closure at the bridge.

Remarkable that they didn't learn not to drive double deckers under there!

I remember the odd school bus hitting it on it's way to Holbeck Baths......

Agree it is rubbish news especially as its one of the best unused buildings in Leeds. Woudnt a good idea for an interim use for this building perhaps to hold gigs inside it as wouldnt that bring people to the area and give more artistic credibility to HUV?

http://static.flickr.com/28/67833716_bf7fefb3ce.jpg :ohno:

Maybe they could even use it as an exhibition space which could be possible as doesnt this take up a large area and such a thing would also be good in getting people to this area? What was proposed for this anyway was it if I remember a development similar to Salts Mill?

You can lease it for as little as £1 per sq ft if you're interested , although do bear in mind it's 187,584 sq ft with a rateable value of £915,000!!

demolition work on the site last week. I'm watching this in the expectation that the cleared site will be used for parking. Anything else would be a welcome bonus.



http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/apm22/7%20June%202008/5ff0f832.jpg?t=1212481991



http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/apm22/7%20June%202008/9ab60d3f.jpg?t=1212482029

More demolition - I had to get past a small crowd of people watching through the factory gates in order to get these shots.



http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/apm22/21%20June%202008/10c9b6af.jpg?t=1213691658



http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/apm22/21%20June%202008/0c84d9f4.jpg?t=1213691777



http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/apm22/21%20June%202008/e0bdf428.jpg?t=1213691728

More demolition - I had to get past a small crowd of people watching through the factory gates in order to get these shots.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/apm22/21%20June%202008/e0bdf428.jpg?t=1213691728

Hallelujah!

What are the plans for it's replacement? Arena?

Hallelujah!

What are the plans for it's replacement? Arena?

If Leeds were to be the City of Culture then this would be a Post-Modernist building.

I don't know if anyone's spotted this but an outline planning proposal for part of the site is to be considered at this week's meeting of the City Centre Plans Panel (see here (http://democracy.leeds.gov.uk/Published/C00000173/M00003845/AI00014321/0800195OTlist.pdf) for the paper).

The plans are for a relatively modest development, with some office and retail with about 130 flats above in two blocks 5-6 storeys in height. Looking at the map at the back of the paper I'm guessing that the development would be to the left of this photo below.


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/apm22/21%20March%202008/14March2008002.jpg?t=1206352693


Two things interest me about this application. One is the timing, given the current uncertainty over the property market. The other is the idea that some of the cast iron columns from the oldest part of the site would be reused to support an open canopy to create a public space between the two buildings.

I don't know if anyone's spotted this but an outline planning proposal for part of the site is to be considered at this week's meeting of the City Centre Plans Panel (see here (http://democracy.leeds.gov.uk/Published/C00000173/M00003845/AI00014321/0800195OTlist.pdf) for the paper).

The plans are for a relatively modest development, with some office and retail with about 130 flats above in two blocks 5-6 storeys in height. Looking at the map at the back of the paper I'm guessing that the development would be to the left of this photo below.


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/apm22/21%20March%202008/14March2008002.jpg?t=1206352693


Two things interest me about this application. One is the timing, given the current uncertainty over the property market. The other is the idea that some of the cast iron columns from the oldest part of the site would be reused to support an open canopy to create a public space between the two buildings.

Interesting, though the civic trust don't seem too chuffed with this one judging by their comments. It still has to be better than what's there at the moment however, i.e very little of note.

(I presume it's further along the road behind this building??)

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/5876/1001192ab4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Yes, Even Flow, I believe that you are correct. It's not the site of the building on the corner of Marshall Street and Sweet Street West. It's the one behind, known I think, as the home of a company known as 'Management Archives'.

Demolition is continuing apace on the main Reality block south of Sweet Street but I'm blessed if I know why the developers are bothering. My first thought was that the clearance was for car parking but now I'm not so certain. We've just had the site cleared between Globe Road and Water Lane, currently being used for parking. The the former LA Bowl on Sweet Street was demolished and the site was levelled; now the southern end of the site is being used for parking.

Car parks in Holbeck are by no means full (and nor were they before the school holidays began) so I doubt there's much money to be made in providing more parking. So why go to the expense of laying out yet more parking spaces?


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/apm22/17%20August%202008/7a572c0d.jpg

well, bugger it, gets rid of an awful red brick warehouse. Anything that could potential speed along development has to be a good thing, even if it is only demolition.

The new regulations covering the payment of empty property business rates have just kicked in. If you leave a building of that size standing empty it now costs you a shed load of money each year. On top of that you have the cost of security. Far cheaper to drop the building if you think that the site is likely to remain undeveloped for some years.

Demolition is continuing apace on the main Reality block south of Sweet Street but I'm blessed if I know why the developers are bothering.

I was thinking the same and came to the conclusion that it is probably to remove the business rates liability. This was a huge building and since the legislation change in April there is no longer empty property rates relief. It also removed an obligation to maintain the building / make it safe. They might also be looking at the possibility of parking, I hope HUV doesn;t turn into one big car park!

The new regulations covering the payment of empty property business rates have just kicked in. If you leave a building of that size standing empty it now costs you a shed load of money each year. On top of that you have the cost of security. Far cheaper to drop the building if you think that the site is likely to remain undeveloped for some years.

Yes, agreed (sorry your post didn't display before!).

That's potentially good news, as some derelict eyesores could be demolished more speedily now. I'm thinking Bridge House which is really spoiling the west end city image at the moment.

That's potentially good news, as some derelict eyesores could be demolished more speedily now. I'm thinking Bridge House which is really spoiling the west end city image at the moment.

Speaking of empty buildings around that area, anyone know what that art deco building near Leeds International Pool and the footbridge over the inner ring road is? I think it's actually very attractive, such a shame it's derelict and empty.

Do you mean Brotherton House, on Grace Street inbetween Westgate and the Intl. Pool? If so, it's not derelict and empty, it just looks it. It's used by West Yorkshire Police and is one of the most poorly maintained buildings I have ever been in. Needs demolishing I would say, but a new building could be art-deco.

The new regulations covering the payment of empty property business rates have just kicked in. If you leave a building of that size standing empty it now costs you a shed load of money each year. On top of that you have the cost of security. Far cheaper to drop the building if you think that the site is likely to remain undeveloped for some years.

Wharfman, thanks to you and to pault for this answer. I've been puzzling for a while about the increased amount of demolition we've been seeing.

^^ indeed - makes absolutely sense and good sense that we don't get too carried away thinking imminent construction may be on the horizon.

Speaking of empty buildings around that area, anyone know what that art deco building near Leeds International Pool and the footbridge over the inner ring road is? I think it's actually very attractive, such a shame it's derelict and empty.

My girlfriend really likes that building. Thanks for the confirmation on usage No1. It is poorly maintained but it seems a real shame to pull it down, its not a bad shape or hight (given the current economic climate).

Is that the one right next to the footbridge? I've always thought that building had the potential to look really nice.
With a refurb and those stupid metal grills removed it'll look a 100 times better.

Despite the credit crunch and the lack of enthusiasm shown by Plans Panel members when the application was presented to them in the summer, a revised proposal for part of the Temple Mills site is going to next week's meeting of the Panel. While it would be great to see some building development at that end of Sweet Street, it does seem to be rather off the beaten track. Although I suppose if you're a regular at the Victoria Works, it might be quite handy to have a crash pad just along the road.

Anyway, the report's here (http://democracy.leeds.gov.uk/Published/C00000173/M00003553/AI00015507/0800195OT.pdf).

Do you mean Brotherton House, on Grace Street inbetween Westgate and the Intl. Pool? If so, it's not derelict and empty, it just looks it. It's used by West Yorkshire Police and is one of the most poorly maintained buildings I have ever been in. Needs demolishing I would say, but a new building could be art-deco.

Ah right, thanks for the info. Good to hear it's still in use, although it's a travesty it's been allowed to get into that state. I'd love to see it spruced up and brought back to its former glory - it's at a gateway location so there's no excuse for leaving it.

Furtherto my posts above about proposals for part of the Temple Mill site, running along Sweet Street, here is the architects' render for the buildings:


http://www.architecture2b.com/uploads/project/orig_management-archives.jpg


I like it very much although I expect some of the anti-grey lobby might not sgree :)

Furtherto my posts above about proposals for part of the Temple Mill site, running along Sweet Street, here is the architects' render for the buildings

I like it very much although I expect some of the anti-grey lobby might not sgree :)

You're right mate- Soulless grey again, oh dear! It will look extra inviting when it rains. Come back the red brick 'Leeds Look' of yesteryear.

Grey isn't always soulless. I think that grey is quite good. It's the plastic-looking grey that you get on the cheap city-fringe developments that is undesirable. I also don't think it's a massive problem in Holbeck where the streetscapes are predominantly red brick.

I'm distinctly underwhelmed by this - hate the grey and the design is so-sol. There are enough grey skies around without grey buildings. They never show grey skies on the renders though.

There are enough grey skies around without grey buildings. They never show grey skies on the renders though.

Good point !

I like it very much although I expect some of the anti-grey lobby might not sgree :)

It looks smart and adds some density and a strong street 'edge'. I quite like it too :)

And the black/grey bricks can look good, as illustrated by this scheme in Sheffield:
http://www.projectorange.com/uploads/gallery_images/img451.jpg

I don't think grey is all bad - it's the huge grey plastic cladding tiles that give grey a bad name... These look like grey brick - far better quality!

Wow.. I lived in Sheffield for 3 years and I never noticed the colour of that building before.. I think that shows that this proposal wouldn't stand out as another cheap quality building, I think that good quality low rise buildings should blend/fit into the surrounding..

^^ although sometimes a statement building is better.. wow, guess my argument went to shit.. :dunno:

A bit of an update from the YEP about the parlous state of the mill:


'Egyptian temple' in Leeds shored up as owners take advice

Published Date: 10 December 2008

By David Marsh, Municipal Reporter


Work is under way to stabilise historic Temple Mill in Leeds following its partial collapse.

An ornate stone pillar at the Egyptian-style former flax mill – a grade-one listed building – gave way smashing original windows and sending a large slab of stone across Marshall Street, Holbeck.

A Leeds city council spokesman said: "We understand that the owners are taking action to stabilise the building while they make arrangements for the necessary repairs. We are, of course, closely and actively monitoring progress."

English Heritage has been advising the owners' engineers and council officials over a strategy for repairs.

Trevor Mitchell, English Heritage's West Yorkshire team leader on historic properties, said: "We are sure that all parties will do all they can to prevent further damage to this iconic building. It is unique in its elevational treatment and plan form, and is the most important symbol of the linen industry in West Yorkshire.

"Temple Mills is probably the finest example of a carved stone elevation in the whole region.

"We are pleased that the owners are preparing a scheme of repair, made more urgent by the collapse."


Sad though it is to see such a splendid building in such disrepair, I wonder if the collapse might be the catalyst for SJS to start making plans for its future. It was reported a couple of years ago that they'd given up their plans for the refurbishment of the mill, presumably because the profit from developing the rest of the site wouldn't have covered the restoration costs. Maybe now's the time for SJS to start talking to Yorkshire Forward which owns Leodis Court, just across the road from the mill.

Temple Works, or part of it, is currently being used for skirmish combat games similar to paintball:

http://www.firstandonlyairsoft.com/

No idea if it's still running after the collapse!

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/apm22/January%202009/January2009013.jpg



http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/apm22/January%202009/January2009014.jpg


The mill's looking rather sad and the damage seems to be much more extensive than I thought at first. You can just about make out from the first picture that a large area of the roof has come down; I don't know if it collapsed at the same time as the column crumbled or if it's been taken down subsequently.

Hope this doesnt turn into leeds' Battersea power station. Loadsa potential zero action!

I have to say I don't for one minute believe SJS's spokesman's assertion that the company remains committed to the conversion of the building. I bet they're running round frantically looking for someone to take it off their hands.



Historic Leeds mill needs the mummy of all restorations...

Published Date: 04 February 2009

By Vicki Robinson


A historic Leeds mill needs hundreds of thousands of pounds spent on it to safeguard even its short-term future, the YEP can reveal.

Part of Temple Mill – modelled on the Egyptian Temple of Edfu – collapsed in December, sending debris from the grade one-listed building showering into the street in Holbeck.

Scaffolding was immediately set up to try to prevent further damage and further props are to be erected within the next fortnight.

But English Heritage bosses say major works will be required to stop the 170-year-old mill from collapsing completely.

Talks are currently underway with owners SJS Property Management and engineers are costing the work, expected to come in at hundreds of thousands of pounds.

Trevor Mitchell, architectural historian with English Heritage, is in consultation with SJS.

He said: "The damage you see on the outside doesn't at all give the real picture. The problem is actually 60 times greater than it appears from the front.

"What is happening is that the steel bars used in the construction were never really strong enough. Now the roof is basically pressing down on the building and pushing the walls out. When it was designed all those years ago, they did not have the technology we have now.

"The shoring that has gone up has stopped the damage from spreading but it won't stop the underlying problem so until more work is done, there is still some risk further collapse will happen.

"Some more scaffolding needs to go up quite soon and then there needs to be a long-term plan for the whole building which will be particularly expensive.

"In a way, the building is a victim of its own vanity. In a normal construction if you needed to buttress a building to support it, you could do it on the outside.

"Here, because the exterior is the feature, it must be buttressed on the inside, which makes it more expensive."

The imposing building in Marshall Street, which covers an area of two acres, was erected between 1839 and 1841 and until the collapse boasted 18 ornate stone pillars. It had been used for storage for years but was bought by SJS Property Management in 2005.

It announced plans to transform Temple Mill into a "cultural retail" centre featuring a mix of shops, art, sculpture, restaurants and cafes. The restoration alone was set to cost around £30m.

The credit crunch has slowed those plans but a spokesman for the firm said it remained committed to the project.

He said talks were ongoing over the best way to safeguard the mill's immediate future.

I love it when someone points out amazing new facts.
As they say, you learn something new every day :tongue2:

'... the 170-year-old mill ... When it was designed all those years ago, they did not have the technology we have now ...' :eek:

English Heritage are true geniuses in the field of old buildings :master:

There's an interesting piece in today's YEP:


Historic Leeds 'Temple' may have role as arts centre


Published Date: 20 March 2009

By Debbie Leigh

A 170-YEAR-OLD- Egyptian-style building which partially collapsed at the end of last year could become a temporary arts and events space after vital repairs are carried out. SJS Property Management, owner of the grade one-listed Temple Works in Holbeck, has submitted planning applications to Leeds City Council which aim to safeguard the building's future and return it to its former glory.

The improvements are urgently needed after one of the 18 ornate stone pillars gave way, firing a large slab of millstone grit stone across a perimeter fence on to the pavement in Marshall Street. And although the credit crunch has delayed long-term plans to transform it into a "cultural retail" centre, SJS wants to turn it into an exhibition space until the financial situation improves.

Chris Hall, town planning director for SJS – owned by the billionaire Barclay Brothers, owners of the Daily Telegraph and the Littlewoods retail group – said: "This is very much the first step in what we see as a much bigger project to turn the fantastic Temple Works building into a centre for culture, exhibitions, arts and specialist retail."

The firm has submitted applications to strengthen the structure of the building, using steel cables to support the roof and for a temporary change of use to a multi-purpose performance, exhibition and events venue. A spokesman for SJS said: "The thing is to get the building into use as quickly as possible as something that can be of use to the whole community."

He said the firm had worked closely with the council on the proposals and the work, expected to cost hundreds of thousands of pounds, would get under way as soon as they were given the green light. If the plans go ahead the building will be opened to the public for the first time in its long history.

It was built for John Marshall, founder of the Leeds flax industry, between 1839 and 1841 and the adjacent temple offices were built in the same style in 1843.

Marshall Street has been closed since the collapse last year, which local traders claim has left them tens of thousands of pounds out of pocket because their customers are unable to reach them by car. The council has said the road cannot reopen until the structure has been made safe.

Of course, what would be really good would be to see something along the lines of what Jonathan Silver did at Salt's Mill at Saltaire - I'm sure Temple Works is big enough to house the arts and cultural space as well as providing some retail opportunities, ideally to the kind of enterprises we once had at Granary Wharf and the Corn Exchange.

On another note, should this thread be renamed? It's confusing to a lot of forumers and the plans for the tower were downgraded a long time ago.

^^
Yep, the tower element is long gone.

Temple Works should become a trophy cultural centre, to attract tourism, combined with a community element which aims to include the residents of surrounding areas in south Leeds. It could have a large green space to the rear and a decent public square to the front, perhaps including the Brick Man maquette, to atrract people down there as a space in the city centre where you can just chill out rather than shop, eat or drink.

Cultural centre is such a vague propostion, what kind of 'culture' are we talking about here?

Cultural centre is such a vague propostion, what kind of 'culture' are we talking about here?

A small art gallery with a Seven Arts style community element attached, and a bookshop and cafe in the style of Salt's Mill. High culture to attract tourists and a more inclusive interpretation for the community projects.

It should also have studio spaces, print facilities, and residency schemes for artists, in a similar way to the art communities in Shanghai and Beijing, or Spike Island in Bristol:

http://www.spikeisland.org.uk/

deleted

^^I'm assuming you were replying to one of those world or warcraft spammers. :shocked:

^ He was indeed.

There's an update on the state of poor old Temple Mill in today's YEP, including a short film showing the inside of the main mill floor. Follow the link here (http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/We-go-inside-historic-Temple.5183164.jp) to see the film.




We go inside historic Temple Mill, damaged in a partial collapse last December, to find out how work is progressing to make the building safe

Published Date: 18 April 2009

By Debbie Leigh

A HUGE block of stone flew out into the road when Temple Mill partially collapsed. But the true extent of the damage is only visible once you are inside the historic treasure that once had sheep grazing on its grass roof.

Two sections of the vaulted ceiling in the grade I listed building on Marshall Street, Holbeck, collapsed in December, forcing one of its 18 ornate pillars to crumble and prompting panic over the former mill's future.

Now a major seven-week programme, costing around £230,000, is under way to make the structure safe.

An intricate 'bird cage' scaffolding system – stretching the width of the building and all the way to the roof – is being installed to add strength to the columns, prevent further damage and protect workers.

Because of the risk of collapse and falling masonry, engineers have to erect the scaffold from beneath a mobile shield more commonly seen in the mining industry or tunnelling works.

The temporary structure will hold the columns in place until a permanent version can be erected, once planning permission is secured.

Site manager Stewart Kellett, facilities manager for owner SJS Property Management, said: "The fact that it collapsed and managed to contain it as it did is testament to the way it was built all those years ago."

He added: "There's actually very little, considering the extent of the damage inside, that came out on to the road."

The mill and neighbouring offices were built for John Marshall, founder of the Leeds flax industry, around 170 years ago.

Architect Joseph Bonomi modelled the buildings on the Temple of Horus at Edfu on the banks of the River Nile.

In the long term SJS plans to turn the building into a centre for culture and specialist retail.

^^I'm assuming you were replying to one of those world or warcraft spammers. :shocked:

Oh lol sorry yeah I was... I didn't realise I wasn't on the last page. :nuts:

Finally, Temple Mill's owners have started repair work on the part of the building that collapsed last December. Should bring some relief to those frustrated drivers trying to get down Marshall Street.

Marshall Mill/ Marshall Court
Lead Architect
Neil Swift
Client Marshall Mill Ltd
Location Leeds
Development type Office
Architectural service Architectural Design
Floor space 25,000 sq ft
Key Features
5 Storey 25,000 sq ft comtemporary office
Situated within the heart of Holbeck Urban Village
DLG secured planning permission for a new 5 storey 25,000 sq ft contemporary office accommodation adjacent to the grade II listed Marshall Mill. Proposals explored residential and office accommodation arranged around linked courtyards whilst maximising car parking potential. Securing Listed Building and Building regulation approval on behalf of Marshall Mill Ltd the works externally included the introduction of a new glazed door openings/ balconettes, a new glass feature entrance porch, re-pointing, and cleaning and repair of the existing lime mortar brick work.



http://www.dlgarchitects.com/upload/work/img/0NMd58DNCMNL4HduyXrZkIigF1cI6hGD5f36U3dV.jpeg



http://www.dlgarchitects.com/upload/work/img/jA0IP7w77DktkjB09mBNi8TGetqPThkqjkglZnFm.jpeg



http://www.dlgarchitects.com/upload/pdf/cP8iXfLur3ezs9wHD5yN0YwvPo6LFThhp5ldwvpZ.pdf

looks so original the old zinc and terracotta ;O)

looks so original the old zinc and terracotta ;O)

Hmm, afraid I'm having to agree with you on this one. The galling thing is that it will sit behind Marshall's Mill with its strong industrial architecture which should have provided the cue for the architects. You only have to look a few hundred metres away to see how three sets of architects at Granary Wharf have responded to their surroundings in a way that DLG have not.

Yea... really not a fan. Good to see more activity for HUV though.

I also forgot to say that the discussion about the proposals for Marshall's Mill don't strictly belong on this thread. Despite its title, the thread is about the Temple Mill site and the various developments being considered for it.

Perhaps the thread title could it be changed to avoid confusion.

Reference
09/00883/FU/C

Applicant
SJS Property Management Ltd

Description
Temporary (3 year) change of use of disused mill to multi purpose performance, exhibition and events venue

Location
Temple Works
Marshall Street
Holbeck
Leeds
LS1 1UL

Agent
David Lock Associates Ltd
50 North Thirteenth Street
Central Milton Keynes
MK9 3BP


According to the papers accompanying this application, the plan is to demolish the modern building to the left of the mill itself and to use the space for parking for the events being held in the building.

Temple Works is a rather melancholy sight these days. One of the workmen told me that masonry is still falling with the latest damage happening over the weekend.


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/apm22/August%202009/August2009005.jpg


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/apm22/August%202009/August2009006.jpg


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/apm22/August%202009/August2009007.jpg


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/apm22/August%202009/August2009008.jpg


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/apm22/August%202009/August2009011.jpg


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/apm22/August%202009/August2009013.jpg

Shit. Here's hoping the repair works get along quickly.

I had a look at Temple Works on Saturday. :cry:

An interesting flickr set.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fotofacade/sets/72157621819578515/

An interesting flickr set.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fotofacade/sets/72157621819578515/

This would make a fantastic gallery/art space. Shame it's been left to rot.

terrible situation. But the building has been derelict or misused as a storage warehouse for catalogue store for years and year with obviously no focus on the infrastructure. Bugger. Its listed, surely it should be properly restored. Sniff and snarfle!

For anyone who may be interested:


Join us for free torchlit tours through Temple Works’ secret spaces, and the exhibition of workers’ “Final Days”.

Would you like to come along and see how we recyled what was found in the old Kays building as new art work?

Once Europe's biggest room, Grade-1-Listed Temple Works awakes to pillars of light and sonic industrial scores: taking you from the extraordinary to the sublime. Not for the faint hearted! Temple Works shut down five years ago. It is now being reborn as a major cultural space.

The first exhibition is entitled 'Final Days' and is a result of over 30 artists coming along on tours, sifting through the remains and detritus left behind by the previous occupants and creating art work.

It’s on from 7-8.30pm from the 10th -16th October.

Booking has to be done via website - follow the link here (http://templeworkslight.eventbrite.com/)

More information (courtesy of the YEP) on the exhibition at Temple Works:


Exhibition at landmark Leeds mill

Published Date: 13 October 2009

By Debbie Leigh

The debris left behind when a landmark Leeds mill closed its doors has been turned into a dramatic art exhibition. Around 20 local artists have been inspired by the unwanted items left lying around Temple Works, on Marshall Street in Holbeck, when the previous occupants vacated the premises.

They have built robots and created weird and wonderful contemporary installations, as well as photographing and filming the machinery, trinkets and the fabric of the building itself.

Some of the work is based on the factory's working life, some makes use of old stains and objects from the old fashioned medical room, another is inspired by abandoned Christmas decorations, while one installation depicts a trusted employee who continues her daily duties despite the fact the building has lain empty for years.

Emma Bearman, from Culture Vulture arts organisation, Leeds, said: "The artwork is all very diverse but there's a sense of eeriness throughout."
She added: "We have invited a community of Leeds artists to come and respond to an historic building – to pay homage and respect to the memories of that space before it moves into its future life as a cultural centre."

The Temple Works Exhibition of Final Days kicked off on Friday – the city's Light Night – and the visits are continuing throughout this week.

Such is the interest in the unusual structure, modelled on the Egyptian Temple of Horus at Edfu, fascinated workers and residents from across the city have seized the opportunity to take torchlit tours around it. The art is on show in the three, more ordinary looking ancillary buildings but each tour ends with a dramatic light and sound show in the main mill – where visitors have to don hard hats as work is still ongoing to repair it.

The mill was built for John Marshall, founder of the Leeds flax industry, between 1838 and 1840. It was used for storage for years but was bought by SJS Property Management in 2005.

Then sections of the vaulted ceiling in the grade I listed building collapsed around a year ago, forcing one of its 18 ornate pillars to crumble and prompting panic over its future.

A project costing around £230,000 was launched to make it safe and the owners decided to turn it into an arts space until the economy improves.
The long-term vision is to create a "cultural retail centre" featuring shops, art, sculpture, restaurants and cafes.

Because of Health and Safety issues in the mill, anyone wanting to view the art exhibition must go to www.templeworksleeds.com to book their free place on the evening tours.

The exhibition ends on Friday.

I've only just happened across the story of Temple Mills collapsing like this. What a horrendous fucking shame! It was long one of my favourite buildings in Leeds - speaking volumes about our heritage and the kind of values held by the Victorians. Look around at the awful, plastic buildings which make up the modern industrial landscape.

My rational side sees entirely why people would choose to build such things (cost, ease, temporary needs) but it's hard not to feel that something in our culture died when we stopped making proud, permanent symbols.

This would make a fantastic gallery/art space. Shame it's been left to rot.

Obviously the Barclay brothers agree with you. The application to turn the main floor of the mill into a temporary exhibition space was submitted some months ago. It looks as though the Plans Panel liked what was being proposed (see here (http://democracy.leeds.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=173&MId=4403&Ver=4) for the full version of the minutes):


Minutes:

Officers presented the report which sought a three year temporary permission for use of this key Grade I Listed Building to provide a professionally managed venue for avant garde music, art and performance; a home for local arts communities together with education provision and work experience.

Revenue from the project would come from ancillary uses, eg bars, filming, conferences etc and the nature of these would be tightly controlled by condition. Whilst the numbers of attendees would be limited to 1500, conditions regarding noise/disturbance would be included and that for major events a 10pm finish time would be proposed to assist with crowd disbursement.

The proposals also included the demolition of the 1953 extension and although there was no proposal for the redevelopment of the site as was normally required by adopted policy, the area was required for emergency escape purposes from the proposed use of Temple Works. The area would also be temporarily landscaped with the details to be controlled by planning condition.

Members discussed the following matters:
• that the proposals were imaginative and would provide a use for this important building
• that such a venue in Leeds would be welcome and could be as successful as Temple Bar in Dublin
• that the 10.00pm closing time might be too restrictive and that some flexibility should be provided up to 11.00pm, particularly as there was little residential accommodation in the area
• the condition of the mill building; the fact that it was not weatherproof and the possibility of some internal restoration being included, particularly to the columns and the clock
• the need for the temporary landscaping scheme to include trees along the Marshall Street frontage and where possible, on the site of the 1953 building

In view of the general support for the scheme, the Chair suggested that the applications could be deferred and delegated to the Chief Planning Officer for approval.

Went on the Civic Trust visit to Temple Mills on Saturday. The damage seems to have been stabilised, but there's a long way to go before it can be used for anything substantial. Currently being used for fairly small-scale artistic projects (much use of the terms 'urban' & 'edgy'), but it seems that funding comes mainly from these projects, so progress will be slow. Great potential, particularly the main area, but not sure if it could ever develop into something like Tate Modern. Imo its location is just not quite right - just about walkable from the city centre, close to but not actually part of Holbeck UV, close to but not actually on the proposed NGT route.

On a lighter note, much discussion of the 'sheep on roof' myth/story. Apparently they would go up a ladder/ramp but not down, so a lift had to be installed. I don't think I'll be fully convinced without seeing a contemporary picture of it.