London has won the 2012 Olympic games. Do you think this will help a future Toronto bid?

The summer games have never been hosted on the same continant twice in a row since the 1940's, and the 2014 winter games will likely go to PyeongChang (Asia) so North America looks like a good site for 2016.

Should Toronto bid for 2016, could it even win just 6 years after Vancouver's games? Probably not. An American city will be biding but so will Dubai and the Olympic games have never been hosted in the Middle East, the UEA is probably the only middle eastern country capable of hosting such an event and could win 2016. If the 2016 game are awarded to Dubai then any one is open for 2020 and Toronto should bid.


Personaly I don't think Toronto will get the Olympics until 2024 or 2028.

It is highly unlikely the IOC delegates will award the Olympic Games to a country with a small population such as Canada after it has hosted three times already (Montreal, Calgary, and Vancouver).

The IOC is very interested in bringing the Olympic movement to South America and Africa, who have never hosted the games before. India is also another possibility. I doubt the delegates are interested in awarding these games back to Canada any time soon when so many other parts of the world haven't hosted them yet.

Meh...Toronto won't be getting the olympics for some time now and I really could care less. I'm sure the losing bid cities like NYC, Paris, Madrid, Moscow would be likely to bid next time around too. And there will be new candidates too, quite possible Singapore, Sao Paolo, Buenos Aires, Dubai, etc. So Toronto 2016 won't really be very likely and I'm not sure Toronto will even bid. I don't think Toronto will be in the picture until the 2020's or 2030's because I'm sure the IOC would like to expand globally to all continents. It's more likely for Toronto to get the 2015 Expo or something.

The summer games have never been hosted on the same continant twice in a row since the 1940's, and the 2014 winter games will likely go to PyeongChang (Asia) so North America looks like a good site for 2016.



Well the US had the olymipics twice within ten years though so it isnt impossible but it is very very unlikely.

Even though I don't see Toronto going after a winter olympics, I don't think PyeongChang will win 2014 (or whenever) winter olympics. They went close last time but I never really understood why. PyeongChang is in North Korea by the way, I don't think the IOC wants to come into such a country.

It will hinder Toronto's future olymipic bid. It would have been better if NYC won therefore leaving Toronto in a very good position in the future. But now Toronto will have to wait longer as NYC will most likely bid for the 2016 olymipic.

^^^ I agree. I can't see Toronto getting the Olympics within the next three decades.

London has won the 2012 Olympic games. Do you think this will help a future Toronto bid?

The summer games have never been hosted on the same continant twice in a row since the 1940's, and the 2014 winter games will likely go to PyeongChang (Asia) so North America looks like a good site for 2016.

Should Toronto bid for 2016, could it even win just 6 years after Vancouver's games? Probably not. An American city will be biding but so will Dubai and the Olympic games have never been hosted in the Middle East, the UEA is probably the only middle eastern country capable of hosting such an event and could win 2016. If the 2016 game are awarded to Dubai then any one is open for 2020 and Toronto should bid.


Personaly I don't think Toronto will get the Olympics until 2024 or 2028.


Guess it depends on your point of view. On one hand, Europe getting the olympics increases the chance of N.A., hence Toronto getting the olympics in 2016 or 2020. On the other hand, by NYC not winning, they have a better chance of winning the next N.A. olympic bids.
Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't. I can't see Toronto getting olympics for a long long time if ever. Should'nt be so pessimistic but after watchin 1996 and 2008 and always being second, you kind of lose hope

Yeah, it's definitely going to be a long time because New York will probably be the next North American city to win the olympics. Toronto does have the luxury of being in North America and the IOC knows that they receive the biggest sponsorship and television deals whenever the olympics are held in in North America, that is why North America (exluding mexico) gets a high proportion of winning Olympic bids when compared to the rest of the world. So we may be the next in line after New York if we decide to bid again.

But I wouldn't like to see Toronto get the Olympics until we solve the many problems that plague this city first. We definitely need to improve our infrastructure before thinking about the Olympics....but that may not even happen on a grand scale until we actually win the bid. While it's true that the Olympics can be the solution to a city's problems (ie Barcelona) and vault that city into economic prosperity, it rarely happens and many cities are hurt by the Olympics and it ends up being a financial blow to the city (ie Montreal).

It is highly unlikely the IOC delegates will award the Olympic Games to a country with a small population such as Canada after it has hosted three times already (Montreal, Calgary, and Vancouver).

The IOC is very interested in bringing the Olympic movement to South America and Africa, who have never hosted the games before. India is also another possibility. I doubt the delegates are interested in awarding these games back to Canada any time soon when so many other parts of the world haven't hosted them yet.

Too bad one of those cities didn't bid this time. Just doesn't seem right that this will be London's third time hosting the games.

I can't see Toronto getting the games for a long time. Unless none of those cities bid in the next little while. If it came down to a choice between NYC and Toronto, I actually think Toronto would win.

Guess it depends on your point of view. On one hand, Europe getting the olympics increases the chance of N.A., hence Toronto getting the olympics in 2016 or 2020. On the other hand, by NYC not winning, they have a better chance of winning the next N.A. olympic bids.
Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't. I can't see Toronto getting olympics for a long long time if ever. Should'nt be so pessimistic but after watchin 1996 and 2008 and always being second, you kind of lose hope

In 1996 Atlanta sealed the deal with bribes and 2008, well, they really had no chance with Beijing bidding and the huge Chinese market just waiting to be exploited.

Remember, Montreal bid 7 times before they finally won, and back then the competition for the games wasn't anything like it is now.

But I wouldn't like to see Toronto get the Olympics until we solve the many problems that plague this city first. We definitely need to improve our infrastructure before thinking about the Olympics

The Olympics will solve many of the infrastructure problems Toronto has. Don't you think the province and feds would pour cash into Toronto?

Toronto won't win 2016 as that host would be decided in 2009 - just 6 months before Vancouver 2010 and when there are a lot of worries about Vancouver. Bbut if it does want 2020 (and it has a good chance for 2020), Toronto needs to bid for 2016 to counter the American bid whether it be NYC or San Francisco. NYC may be ditched by the USOC as they are currently rethinking about their choice.

I can just imagine the tag line for Toronto 2020: TO2020

The Olympics will solve many of the infrastructure problems Toronto has. Don't you think the province and feds would pour cash into Toronto?


I like how when you quoted that, you left out the part where I wrote "....but that may not even happen on a grand scale until we actually win the bid."

The thing is, our transit system has been decaying in quality for years now. We need to bring our transit system up to par to handle this city's commuters and bring down horrible gridlock that plagues the city. While it's still one of the "finest" transit systems in North America (which is a kind of a pointless praise since very few North American cities do mass transit right), there is so much more that could be done with our system.
And if we were to ever win the olympics, we will have to invest even more into the transit system to handle all the visitors. If we leave all of our transit upgrades until we win the olympics, I highly doubt our government will invest enough to fix both the system's problems AND to increase capacity to handle the visitors. I would prefer we fix our problems first, then once we win the bid, invest again to handle the crowds of people. I just don't trust our government enough for them to invest billions of dollars all at once....they're way too careful and conservative for me to have a good feeling about that.

I like how when you quoted that, you left out the part where I wrote "....but that may not even happen on a grand scale until we actually win the bid."

The thing is, our transit system has been decaying in quality for years now. We need to bring our transit system up to par to handle this city's commuters and bring down horrible gridlock that plagues the city. While it's still one of the "finest" transit systems in North America (which is a kind of a pointless praise since very few North American cities do mass transit right), there is so much more that could be done with our system.
And if we were to ever win the olympics, we will have to invest even more into the transit system to handle all the visitors. If we leave all of our transit upgrades until we win the olympics, I highly doubt our government will invest enough to fix both the system's problems AND to increase capacity to handle the visitors. I would prefer we fix our problems first, then once we win the bid, invest again to handle the crowds of people. I just don't trust our government enough for them to invest billions of dollars all at once....they're way too careful and conservative for me to have a good feeling about that.


Ok, so what now. So when, without the Olympic catalyst projects, do you think this miracle of a transportation makeover come from? As you said, the government is conservative and too careful at funding infrastructure projects. When (without the Olympics) will this happen?

The way I see it, Toronto has nothing to lose but everything to gain.

Hey, I didn't say it likely to happen. I'm just saying, that's what I would like to see. I hope that one day we'll be able to convince this government that more funding is needed to help the TTC and things are slowly improving with the gas tax money. But the city is going to keep hacking away at the feds and the province and I hope it will work out in the end because progress is actually being made on these guys. Slow yes, but progress nonetheless. I just don't see the olympics as being the be all and end all to our city's transit woes.

congratulations London! Although Paris would have been an excellent choice as well.

It didn't matter which city won. Toronto's fate was sealed for years if not decades when Vancouver won 2010. So it's pointless to raise this question.

Assuming their economies continue to excel and their political environments stabilize, many cities in India, China, Africa, and South America will be seeking bids 20-30 years down the road. It's hard to believe the IOC rewarding Canada with a pop of 32MM a 4th Olympics.

Besides Toronto's got the Torch!(obligatory mention in any Toronto/Olympic related thread) We're still in awe and excitement over this glorified lamp post in Dundas Square.

Besides Toronto's got the Torch!(obligatory mention in any Toronto/Olympic related thread) We're still in awe and excitement over this glorified lamp post in Dundas Square.

LOL!

:rofl:

I'm glad Toronto won't be getting the Olympics for a hile. Truth be said I hope it never does.
Expo on the other hand would do wonders for the city as it is a 6 month event and could really show Toronto off to the world.

Alot of pessimism here...

Toronto had the best technical bid for 2006 by quite a margin... but we all know why Beijing had to win.

The IOC may have ambitions for unchartered territory, but with the current spectre of international instability, and a need to make the olympics more economically feasible to host, NA will always keep them coming back. It's tried and true. NYC has already had them, LA has had them twice... Toronto will be an excellent candidate for the next few decades, whether NYC gets another chance before we do.

Besides, the longer we wait, the more prepared we'll be (hopefully).

It's pointless to try and second-guess the IOC...there's no logic to it at all....you can argue that certain countries won't be getting it "again", yet that's what the IOC has a habit of doing...not just countries...but cities getting multiple games.

I'm also one of those who thinks this olympic fanatisism is for losers....want to boost your city?....do something more interesting....world fairs can be just as dumb, but if you do them right, they're a lot better than an olympics.

And I don't see any transit improvement connection either....what would a 3-week event have to do with public transit, which is for ever? The TTC is not going to benifit from it at all...in fact, it would probably divert funds to olympic venues that will be mostly unused afterwards, that could have gone directly to fund transit needs for every day...not 3 weeks of an olympics.

And seeing as the TTC has all new subway trains, 800 new buses, new subway line, new ROW LRT, new high-tech streetcar tracks, and most other physical hardware, I fail to see how the TTC is falling apart, let alone going to be saved by an olympics?




KGB

Alot of pessimism here...

Toronto had the best technical bid for 2006 by quite a margin... but we all know why Beijing had to win.

The IOC may have ambitions for unchartered territory, but with the current spectre of international instability, and a need to make the olympics more economically feasible to host, NA will always keep them coming back. It's tried and true. NYC has already had them, LA has had them twice... Toronto will be an excellent candidate for the next few decades, whether NYC gets another chance before we do.

Besides, the longer we wait, the more prepared we'll be (hopefully).



The longer you wait, those waterfront lands will be gone for the Games.....so then, where will you host it without that huge chunk of land? It was those lands that created the best technical Olympic bid plan ever.

Yes, TO won't probably win 2016 but if they do bid, they will help send a message to the IOC that 2016 is North America's (or the Americas (N. and S. America)).....and it would give the American bid some competition.

As I said before, progress is slowly being made and they will make the improve the current routes but all of this is just a very small chunk of the transit problems...most of which exist outside of the core. Expansion and increasing capacity are the major issues. These issues range from subway extensions to yorku, STC via Sheppard, and the replacement of the Scarborough RT...you can possibly throw in extending B-D line to MCC to relieve highway congestion. It has been documented that the TTC loses 6 million passengers a year on Scarbourgh's crappy RT line and it's vital that this piece of crap gets replaced.....hopefully (but not likely) with an extension of the B-D line to STC.

2 million people are expected migate into the GTA over the next 17 years and there needs to be some proactive planning rather than reactive planning. The TTC also needs investment so that it can reduce it's fares and make it more affordable to ride the TTC. For a system where 80% of it's revenues depends on the farebox and that is just too high. The TTC hasn't broken it's transit ridership record since 1988 and clearly things need to be done to persuade people to using it again.

If we were to win the olympics, there would be hundreds of thousands of visitors in the city and it would just cripple the infrastructure. It would be another Atlanta where people had to wait hours to get on a transit route. If our transit system cannot handle the extra visitors, our highways DEFINITELY will not be able to take the load off. It honestly seems like rush hour in this city is from 6 am to 8 pm.

Okay, I'm getting way too carried with this and i'm kind of going off topic so i'll stop now. :tongue3:

We should get a transit section in the Toronto section....hmmm.

The longer you wait, those waterfront lands will be gone for the Games.....so then, where will you host it without that huge chunk of land? It was those lands that created the best technical Olympic bid plan ever.

Yes, TO won't probably win 2016 but if they do bid, they will help send a message to the IOC that 2016 is North America's (or the Americas (N. and S. America)).....and it would give the American bid some competition.


That's why you create a long term plan. Develop the portlands, but keep certain areas allocated for olympic plans.

I'm all for having realistic discussions regarding public transit...including less than perfect aspects of it...because there are less than ideal things about it...always have been...and always will be...as there is no such thing as a transit system without them.

But it is completely impossible to have such a discussion about that topic here...generally because of the kind of hyperbole found in your post, and almost everyone else's. (I won't bother pointing them out and explaining why they are hyperbole, as that would be construed as arguementative or sarcastic...or some other invention why disagreeing with you breaks some kind of forum rules).

But I will ask you to explain how 3 weeks of olympic sports events either produces the kind of transit numbers you are vaguely alluding to, or how that would have anything to do with the regular numbers that happen every day, or the multitude of events that happen all the time as well.

Are you saying olympic event watchers constitute a larger number of transit users than the city has ever seen, or that if this were true, we would actually build a transit system to handle a once-in-a-lifetime event that lasts only 3 weeks?

Sorry, transit planning should completely and absolutely ignore any such philosophies at all costs. The olympics is a fabulous get together for sports competition....but a complete farce as a city infastructure initiative....and Toronto should avoid the kind of mental block this seems to gloss over any city that seems to get caught up in "olympic fever".

World's Fair...if you HAVE to resort to this kind of desperate city building, then at least it's a better event which stands a better chance of being more successful over a longer period of time, appealing to a much wider demographic, and leaving an infastrcture that has a small chance of being of even the slightest bit of use after it's over.






KGB

....
I'm also one of those who thinks this olympic fanatisism is for losers....want to boost your city?....do something more interesting....world fairs can be just as dumb, but if you do them right, they're a lot better than an olympics.

KGB


Agreed...

IMO, Toronto doesn't need the olympics or even the world's fair. The city will do fine without a world event. I've mentioned it before, that it's no big deal. Also, I'll stand by the point of taking the money the 3 levels of government will put into improving infastructure regardless of having a huge international event. Put that into the city regardless. Summer Olympics would just be a burden for all the people who already have problems with the annual events that happen. Think about it... from June to September there is always something on a 'world (tourist) scale' that is happening in and around our city. Starting with...

Pride Week, Molson Indy (weekend), Caribana (mid july to civic holiday in august), Tennis Masters Tournament, taste of the danforth (weekend), CNE, TIFF, the Canadian Open... and the list goes on.

It seems that Toronto is pretty good at forgeting to promote and market the events the city already has, and puts more emphasis on the events we can't get. The Olympics will only happen once for 3 weeks at the most... Toronto has alot on it's plate from June to September that has the capability of making the city a hot tourist destination during the summer months.

On another note, I'm glad people's expectations of Toronto are low whenever they visit in the summer. More than a handful will make it evident that Toronto is a place where they belong… hence, Toronto – you belong here… but that’s a different story… LOL.

Yeesh, welcome to the internet KGB. You're talking like if this is your first time posting on here....you of all people should know what to expect. I usually just type up a quick message while waiting for the software that i'm developing to finish compiling....this is a forum after all, it should be fun and easy going and it shouldn't be expected that every post will be well constructed and reasearched. If you had such a problem with almost everyone's apparent lack of realistic discussion, you know you could just ignore the thread. If you think this thread is bad, I have no idea what you think about the huge transportation threads over at UrbanToronto.


But it is completely impossible to have such a discussion about that topic here...generally because of the kind of hyperbole found in your post, and almost everyone else's. (I won't bother pointing them out and explaining why they are hyperbole, as that would be construed as arguementative or sarcastic...or some other invention why disagreeing with you breaks some kind of forum rules).


Whenever has disagreeing with me ever been something against a forum rule? The only 2 people i've ever banned on here were banned for spamming and for posting racist material. I have never banned anyone or closed a thread because i've disagreed with someone over a topic. If you find just one example ever where I have done that, I would love for you to PM me an instance...but in the meantime, I would appreciate it if you stop trying to make an issue out of nothing. Instead of this little rant that you're going on about....wouldn't it just be easier to just reply to the topic at hand or just ignore the thread entirely if you're that annoyed?


But I will ask you to explain how 3 weeks of olympic sports events either produces the kind of transit numbers you are vaguely alluding to, or how that would have anything to do with the regular numbers that happen every day, or the multitude of events that happen all the time as well.


Okay, it's likely that around 2 million visitors will come to Toronto for the Olympics since that's how many went to Atlanta's (a good comparison since it's a North American site). Couple that with the 2 million people that would move into the GTA over the next 17 years, you can clearly see how this could most likely overload the current system.


Are you saying olympic event watchers constitute a larger number of transit users than the city has ever seen, or that if this were true, we would actually build a transit system to handle a once-in-a-lifetime event that lasts only 3 weeks?

Definitely, PT is by far and away the most used form of transportation by visitors at the olympics. Most olympic visitors will indeed be using the public transit system more than driving. I would guess it would be at least a 35% jump in ridership during that 3 week span. I'm not saying, we should building a transit system to handle an extra million people, but it should be expanded to at least make it somewhat tolerable for the visitors. Possibly expand the TTC to handle say another 100-200,000 riders daily. Expanding the system greatly depends on where the venues are located. If they are centralized downtown, then transit expansion will be minimal....however, if it's set up like the Sydney olympics where venues will be fairly spread out all over the city (and into the GTA), then there will need to be huge investments to handle all the traffic of the citizens of the city and the visitors. Toronto is a city that could definitely benefit off of a major upgrade of the mass transit outside the core since that's where most of the city's population growth is occuring. If done correctly, it wouldn't become a white elephant.


Sorry, transit planning should completely and absolutely ignore any such philosophies at all costs. The olympics is a fabulous get together for sports competition....but a complete farce as a city infastructure initiative....and Toronto should avoid the kind of mental block this seems to gloss over any city that seems to get caught up in "olympic fever".


Hmm....Atlanta, Sydney, Barcelona and many other sites have benefited quite well off of their huge PT infrastructure investments. These big projects do indeed work, the planners just have to be smart about it and consider all post-olympic possibilities for applying the huge investment in the infrastructure.

Too bad one of those cities didn't bid this time. Just doesn't seem right that this will be London's third time hosting the games.

I can't see Toronto getting the games for a long time. Unless none of those cities bid in the next little while. If it came down to a choice between NYC and Toronto, I actually think Toronto would win.

we won the games in the late 40's because no wanted to do them or could do them.

Before that it was in the early 1900's, which consisted of people just running around a track at very slow speeds etc, so it hardly compares.

London, won because it has the best bid and put alot of emphasis on getting kids into sport.

Just because Paris bid three times doesn't give them the right to host anything.

I love Canada and I hope Toronto bids for it - I would support a Toronto bid.

Yeah i don't see any reason why not! Bid for 2012! You have a great city, i stopped off in Toronto on way to LA. Looking down on an olympic stadium from the CN tower would be awesome!

No Toronto bid for 2016 Games, mayor says

London's surprise victory in the sweepstakes for the Olympic Games of 2012 appeared to open the door for the Summer Games to return to North America in 2016, but neither Toronto Mayor David Miller nor New York's losing bid group is interested.

Miller told the Toronto media yesterday that a world's fair in 2015 is a more likely option for the city.

Asked directly about making another Olympic bid -- Toronto unsuccessfully pursued the Games for 1996 and 2008 -- Miller said: "I don't think so. I don't think it's Toronto's time, and I also think we really need to focus on city building. It's one of the reasons why I'm interested in exploring the world's fair, because that directly correlates to city building."

He didn't explain what he meant by "city-building," but an aide explained that Olympic building projects are apt to be sport-specific, while World's Fair construction could be more easily converted or other purposes.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20050707/OLYTORONTO7/TPSports/Other

There's still two years before the deadline to apply to bid for 2016. A lot can happen and I don't think the mayor has the final say on this.

Can someone explain to me how a world fair would help build Toronto? I think the Olympics would do more.

Can someone explain to me how a world fair would help build Toronto? I think the Olympics would do more.

Because it would mean huge investment in the city's infrastructure, and with projects that are far more beneficial to the city after the fair is over, as opposed to a series of stadiums and athletic facilities that don't really make for a good neighbourhood or heavily used area (for example, most Olympic plazas that are pretty much dead once the games are over).

we won the games in the late 40's because no wanted to do them or could do them.

Before that it was in the early 1900's, which consisted of people just running around a track at very slow speeds etc, so it hardly compares.

London, won because it has the best bid and put alot of emphasis on getting kids into sport.

Just because Paris bid three times doesn't give them the right to host anything.

I love Canada and I hope Toronto bids for it - I would support a Toronto bid.

Well, I can't blame them for winning. They went for it and were rewarded...nor am I implying Paris deserved it because this was their 3rd bid.

Im just saying, 3 Olympics, even if the other two were over 5 decades ago, is a lot when you consider all the qualified cities that could handle it. It's too bad none of these other cities, especially in countries who've never had the games didn't bid and win.

I think Toronto should go for it next time, there last bid was so well done. The IOC knows that, you might just be able to pull it off.

I think Toronto should go for it next time, there last bid was so well done. The IOC knows that, you might just be able to pull it off.

exactly. and not only well done, arguably the best technical bid in Summer Olympic history ever.

Can someone explain to me how a world fair would help build Toronto? I think the Olympics would do more.

I think the mayor's major problem with the Olympics is the fact that we'd be building venues that could only really be used for major sporting events. Toronto already has the Rogers Centre and ACC which are both world class venues and adding bigger ones just doesn't make sense. Also, as it stands right now, Maple Leafs Gardens is being used for basically nothing since the Leafs left (which is mainyl due to MLSE stance on no concerts there)

I think that major advantage of a World's Fair is the fact that once buildings are used they can be converted into other uses. Vancouver did a great job of this and I think Toronto can due the same. The buildings could be used for new museums or other entertainment complexs, or even sold as office or residentail space which would without doubt help to pay off the cost of building the venues.

Also because the World's Fair is over a longer period of time, I doubt ther'd be as big a strain on the TTC and other GTA metro services. As well, waiting a while to get the Olympics would help GTA municipalities get their local transit systems set up better. York region would probably get more time to start their BRT and LRT set-up. As well, Mississauga has a proposed LRT that could link with B-D subway line which would help getting to venues in those two regions as most of Toronto's proposed venues were all in the GTA.

Certainly, London winning won't hurt a potential bid for 2016 for Toronto. Stranger things have happened. There's not even any certainty that NY will A) bid for the USOC candidacy, and B) win the right to represent the USOC. There's going to be some good competition (last time round, the final four were NY, SF, DC, and Houston), and Minneapolis is already throwing its hat in the ring. A lot of people have a bitter taste in their mouths from the 2012 bid failure. Don't forget 1992 and 1994 Olympic Winter Games, both in Europe, in two years! So Vancouver and Toronto, six years apart, and different Games, could happen.

Toronto's deficencies will not be fixed by reckless spending on Olympic facilities.

I highly doubt that any event, win or lose that the government would spend any money on improving the TTC.