We are talking about road tunnels. There are NOT a number of 10+ km in Europe, just 2 of them are double tubed and more than 10 km long (barely).

^^ Oh China... :ohno:

Go away, troll

We are talking about road tunnels. There are NOT a number of 10+ km in Europe, just 2 of them are double tubed and more than 10 km long (barely).

Laerdal, Norway (24,510m)
St. Gotthard, Switerzland (16,918m)
Arlberg, Austria (13,972m)
Frejus, France-Italy (12,898m)
Mont Blanc, France-Italy (11,611m)
Gudvanga, Norway (11,428m)
Folgefonn, Norway (11,150m)
Gran Sasso d'Italia, Italy (10,176m)
Plabutsch, Austria (10,085m)

All road tunnels, all longer than 10km. I'm not aware of any other tunnel, but I know they're building 35km long one in Switzerland.

The longest tunnels are train tunnels because the grades cannot be more than like 2 - 3% for a normal (higher speed) railway, while it can be up to 7% for a motorway and even higher for other roads. Main roads with an grade of 12 - 14% are not unknown, and local roads can even be above 20%.

That 35 km tunnel in Switzerland is the Gotthard Base Tunnel, and it's not 35 km but 35 miles (57 km).

That 35 km tunnel in Switzerland is the Gotthard Base Tunnel, and it's not 35 km but 35 miles (57 km).35km - That's Lötschberg Base Tunnel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%B6tschberg_Base_Tunnel)! ;)

Yeah, but he's talking about "building a", the Lötschberg Base Tunnel has been completed for over 2 years.

Scenery along the Xi'an - Hanzhong expressway

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p340/Dalianon/9fc22817.jpg

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p340/Dalianon/efc35f7a.jpg

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p340/Dalianon/2dcc7faa.jpg

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p340/Dalianon/69529283.jpg

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p340/Dalianon/7acf61bc.jpg

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p340/Dalianon/136f145b.jpg

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p340/Dalianon/994dbdfc.jpg

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p340/Dalianon/f8170c77.jpg

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p340/Dalianon/b2424401.jpg

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p340/Dalianon/7318838c.jpg

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p340/Dalianon/d7c4d0e6.jpg

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p340/Dalianon/bb1eb1a0.jpg

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p340/Dalianon/b2974265.jpg

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p340/Dalianon/c0540bc0.jpg

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p340/Dalianon/04d305e3.jpg

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p340/Dalianon/40341cee.jpg

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p340/Dalianon/9cabd210.jpg

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p340/Dalianon/4c48ede7.jpg

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p340/Dalianon/d3006c27.jpg

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p340/Dalianon/2d6fdc61.jpg

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p340/Dalianon/37d7ab8a.jpg

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p340/Dalianon/20e9c653.jpg

(a4367007.blog.163.com)

Not showing, Scion.

Fixed :D

wow , simply amazing:)

Highway S32 in Shanghai. Includes Minpu Bridge, world's longest double decker cable-stayed bridge.
http://www.sh.xinhuanet.com/2009-12/21/xin_3931206211726218287489.jpg

http://www.sh.xinhuanet.com/2009-12/21/xin_3931206211726765392710.jpg

http://www.sh.xinhuanet.com/2009-12/21/xin_4031206211726281363511.jpg

http://www.sh.xinhuanet.com/2009-12/21/xin_40312062117268432876112.jpg

http://www.sh.xinhuanet.com/2009-12/21/xin_4131206211726406554513.jpg

Is this the Minpu Bridge?

http://www.sh.xinhuanet.com/2009-12/21/xin_3931206211726765392710.jpg


Doesn't look very long at all, unless they're counting the elevated highway as a bridge?

^^ The main span has 708m. Only 4 cable-stayed bridges in the world are longer than Minpu, none of them is double decker :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_cable-stayed_bridges

^^
Got it. ;)

Chinese highways for fast traffic add up to 65,000 km

January 16, 2010

China reported 65,000 kilometers of highways designed for fast traffic by the end of 2009, second only to the United States, said Li Shenglin, Minister of Communications, on Friday.

China opened 4,719 kilometers of expressways in 2009 and launched construction of 16,000 kilometers of expressways last year as a result of increased investment in infrastructure, Li said at a national work meeting in Beijing.

According to the strategic plan for highway development in 2005,by 2020, China will establish a national highway network, totaling100,000 kilometers, about the length in the United States today.

The network could be achieved ahead of time based on the current development speed, Li said.

China has maintained its second place in the world in terms of expressway lengths since 2001.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2010-01/15/content_12817685.htm
Source: Xinhua

Jingjintang

http://i013.radikal.ru/0911/e6/c991154915c7.jpg

After seeing Chinese and Indian road pictures, I have to say their drivers (both countries) need to stay in their lane of traffic.

^^^^Well this a PRC thread so please stick to that .

Super highway! It is far beyond my expectation.

The american and the chineese motorways are good, but not up to european standard.

The american and the chineese motorways are good, but not up to european standard.

This is a very confusing statement. Some motorways in Europe are also not up to the contemporary standards. For instance most motorways in UK are quite bumpy with uneven surface while some old autobahnen in Germany have no hard shoulder...
The new motorways are of course state of the art no matter where they are. So they are, I believe, in China and the quality standard is probably no different from the new motorways in EU.

I have never come across a low quality motorway in China (regular roads are another story), the oldest is only 20 years old so there hasn't been much time for the materials to deteriorate

I have never come across a low quality motorway in China (regular roads are another story), the oldest is only 20 years old so there hasn't been much time for the materials to deteriorate

Go to the Yangtze estury and you'll soon have a different opinion :nuts: . Due to the geology there's always a slight height difference between bridges and roads - one of the newish expressways near Ningbo I travelled on was simply appauling. There's a well known phrase '上海到，过桥跳'.

BUMP,anybody been on their national highway yet?

Taijing Expressway, Jiang Xi Province.

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/1.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/9.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/8.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/7.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/6.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/5.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/4.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/3.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/2.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/26.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/25.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/24.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/23.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/22.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/21.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/20.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/19.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/18.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/17.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/16.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/15.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/14.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/13.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/12.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/11.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/10.jpg



http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/427784f7.jpg

Jiangsu Province Expressways

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/9-1.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/8-1.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/7-1.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/6-1.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/5-1.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/4-1.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/3-1.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/2-1.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/16-1.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/15-1.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/13-1.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/12-1.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/11-1.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/10-1.jpg

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/ldb07_2010/1-1.jpg

All photos came from Chinahighway.com

Xibao Expressway
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2700/4084970995_8b15f27b16_o.jpg

http://club.autohome.com.cn

That ramp seems perfect for in case of uncontrollable Toyota type accelerations :lol:

East 3rd Ring Road

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p340/Dalianon/d161dc44.jpg

No doubt suburbanist will like this.

East 3rd Ring Road

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p340/Dalianon/d161dc44.jpg

Oh my god....!! Can't speed...

With poor recompensation and use of duress:cheers:

troll... recompensation was at times much higher than the property's worth at the time.

ie. owners of courtyard homes were compensated with condo/apartments of square foot equaling the area of the entire courtyard + the the living space of the buildings built upon it.

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The traffic is amazing. So many cars..

3rd ring road of beijing is too busy.

I heard they demolished entire neighborhoods to build these expressways. But i don't think there was another solution, since the area is densely build.

They coud've built bridges, like in Tokyo or Osaka on existing roads.

^^
Provided that there were existing roads forming an exact ring without sudden turns or bends around Beijing.

In any case, Chinese cities are hardly comparable to Tokyo or Osaka since the highways in the former have all been built in the last 20 years-- most in the last 10 years, when the cities have already expanded a lot.

^^ The first expressway in Tokyo opened somewhere in the 1960's, but most of them in the 70's, 80's, 90's en 2000's.

Tokyo grew in the 60s as fast as Peking grows now.

Tokyo grew in the 60s as fast as Peking grows now.

The proper name for the city is Beijing, not Peking. It's how the locals pronounce the city name, and is the internationally recognized name.

and is the internationally recognized name.
Unless you're soviet/Russian :lol:

The proper name for the city is Beijing, not Peking. It's how the locals pronounce the city name, and is the internationally recognized name.

In Germany we still say Peking, and I have no problem with Americans calling our cities Munich, Nuremberg, Dusseldorf, Cologne or Brunswick so you shouldn't have with foreign names either. :)

Somewhere in Guangdong province (广东清连高速)

http://bbs.wforum.com/upfile/201004/20100419145855000194.jpg
http://bbs.wforum.com/upfile/201004/20100419145914825467.jpg
http://bbs.wforum.com/upfile/201004/20100419145940765393.jpg

Last three pictures are breathtaking.

Thanks for the all photos :D

That ramp seems perfect for in case of uncontrollable Toyota type accelerations :lol:

:lol::lol::lol:

wow, go china :D
I hope they will recognize international driving license soon. So everybody can rent a car and drive.

wow, go china :D
I hope they will recognize international driving license soon. So everybody can rent a car and drive.

Fack.. I wanted to drive in China this summer :ohno: Do you know how much it costs?

I have rented a car in both PRC and Taiwan without even showing my (EU) driver's licence-- only my passport. :okay:

Somewhere in Guangdong province (广东清连高速)

http://bbs.wforum.com/upfile/201004/20100419145855000194.jpg
http://bbs.wforum.com/upfile/201004/20100419145914825467.jpg
http://bbs.wforum.com/upfile/201004/20100419145940765393.jpg

WOW.....
I HOPE ONE DAY I WILL DRIVE ON MOTORWAY FROM EUROPE TO CHINA:banana:

I have rented a car in both PRC and Taiwan without even showing my (EU) driver's licence-- only my passport. :okay:

Experience shows that China has a liberal view towards people driving without a license :lol::lol:

Chinese roads are very dangerous. Nothing wrong with the infrastructure, it's the drivers. Most act like crazy race car drivers, with total disregard for safety. Foreigners eager to test China's roads will probably think twice after their first taxi ride from the airport.

Chinese roads are very dangerous. Nothing wrong with the infrastructure, it's the drivers. Most act like crazy race car drivers, with total disregard for safety. Foreigners eager to test China's roads will probably think twice after their first taxi ride from the airport.

it depends from which countries are foreigners :)

Fack.. I wanted to drive in China this summer :ohno: Do you know how much it costs?

500 usd ,and takes 3 months.:lol:

Chinese roads are very dangerous. Nothing wrong with the infrastructure, it's the drivers. Most act like crazy race car drivers, with total disregard for safety. Foreigners eager to test China's roads will probably think twice after their first taxi ride from the airport.

that's true from my own experience! Many drivers r not polite at all. They won't let u go first. I wont suggest westerner drive in mainland China.

Portugese travelers drive to China for Shanghai Expo (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/culture/2010-05/02/c_13276033.htm) (Xinhua, 2010-05-02 19:25:10)

Chang'an Street

http://www.photofans.cn/uploads2010/05/userid91911time20100508063611.jpg

http://www.photofans.cn/uploads2010/05/userid91911time20100508063540.jpg

I really love these pics! I wonder what's going up in the background with all the cranes.

I'm not sure if Beijing beats Sao Paulo already...

The bus to car ratio in these photos are absolutely appauling ...

wow

Somewhere in Guangdong province (广东清连高速)

http://bbs.wforum.com/upfile/201004/20100419145855000194.jpg


How high is this bridge? It seems so high!~~

beijing rush hour is terrible.

beijing rush hour is terrible.
I know right...

Shenzhen East Coast Expressway 东部沿海高速

http://www.szpichappy.com/UploadFile/2010-7/20107312281855106.jpg

http://www.szpichappy.com/UploadFile/2010-7/20107312292411491.jpg

http://www.szpichappy.com/UploadFile/2010-7/20107312295528085.jpg

why do chinese expressways always seem to be missing a shoulder?

Is there an updated map of the Chinese 高速 (Gaosu Gonglu aka expressways)?

why do chinese expressways always seem to be missing a shoulder?

In urban areas, I think they prefer an extra lane over a shoulder. This is a choice they made when building new freeways in an existing urban landscape with little space. In most rural expressways pictures, I do see emergency lanes/shoulders.

Didnt see any mention of the first traffic jam in August in this thread... so anyway...the traffic jam has returned.

Perhaps this is also relevant for the 'longest traffic jams' thread??


Epic 120km China traffic jam returns
AFP September 02, 2010 8:38PM
http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/epic-120km-china-traffic-jam-returns/story-e6frfku0-1225913500463

A HUGE traffic snarl stretching at least 120km reappeared in northern China today, with thousands of cargo trucks stuck in a bottleneck.

State television broadcast images of a long line of mostly cargo trucks inching slowly through Inner Mongolia on a major highway leading towards Beijing that has come to symbolise China's traffic gridlock problem.

"You could say the highway has become a big parking lot," a CCTV reporter at the scene said, estimating the number of vehicles stuck in the congestion at more than 10,000.

The stretch of highway linking Inner Mongolia and the northern province of Hebei with Beijing is among the nation's busiest.

Major snarls have materialised this year, blamed on highway maintenance projects and accidents.

Traffic slowed to a snail's pace in June and July for nearly a month, according to earlier press reports.

In August, state media said some drivers were stuck in a huge traffic jam on the route for nine days.

The traffic subsequently cleared but has worsened again due to accidents and traffic restrictions imposed by authorities, CCTV said.

China has embarked in recent years on a huge expansion of its national road system, but the volume of traffic periodically overwhelms the grid.

According to government data, Beijing is on track to have five million cars on its roads by year's end. The four-million mark was passed in December.

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/epic-120km-china-traffic-jam-returns/story-e6frfku0-1225913500463#ixzz0yOFgqUSK

赛果高速
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4073/4959889730_5bd85fc4b3_b.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4141/4959295001_83171e6be5_b.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4152/4959890254_74920fa06a_b.jpg

Didnt see any mention of the first traffic jam in August in this thread... so anyway...the traffic jam has returned.

Perhaps this is also relevant for the 'longest traffic jams' thread??


Epic 120km China traffic jam returns


There's already a thread on this in Chinese forum:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1199987

The article is a bit old but exciting

China plans to build 11,049km expressway in 2010

The same construction speed will extend to year 2011~2012, by planning there're still 50,277km new expressway to build by 2013

http://www.ccmec.com.cn/?thread-203-1.html

Sep.2 Xiamen Quanzhou expressway re-opened after widening

Widened to 8 lanes (from 4 lanes)
Length: 81.9km
Cost: 6.594 bn yuan

http://j.imagehost.org/0439/154_916_38b89dc65233224.jpg

http://j.imagehost.org/0466/00219b6674eb0de52cc502.jpg

(www.china-highway.com)

nice freeways, but not too impressive. China doesn't have as many cars as in the United states, so maybe in a few years or in a decade or so, it will be lot of cars in rural China. American freeways are busy, even in rural areas. I don't see many cars in rural area of China in the pictures. I-90 6 lane freeway over snoquailimie pass in Washington state gets average of 26,000 cars a day, one of the busiest mountain pass in the US.
China has many cars now

The article is a bit old but exciting

China plans to build 11,049km expressway in 2010

The same construction speed will extend to year 2011~2012, by planning there're still 50,277km new expressway to build by 2013

http://www.ccmec.com.cn/?thread-203-1.html

Chineese are crazy! :nuts:

If they would come for 6 months in Romania we woudn't have to build any new motorway in the next 50 years :lol:

^^ They would come to Slovakia for 2 months and we will have many empty motorways..

China has many cars now

Uhmm... not nearly as many as the US, EU, Russia or Japan...

Uhmm... not nearly as many as the US, EU, Russia or Japan...

The Chinese are the worlds biggest car market now... and will soon have as many cars on their roads as the rest of them put together ;)

The Chinese are the worlds biggest car market now... and will soon have as many cars on their roads as the rest of them put together ;)

Jep, that's normal but I meant per capita!

The article is a bit old but exciting

China plans to build 11,049km expressway in 2010

The same construction speed will extend to year 2011~2012, by planning there're still 50,277km new expressway to build by 2013

http://www.ccmec.com.cn/?thread-203-1.html

Do you mean there will be 50000km of new expressways by 2013? Is that really possible? I mean even in China that sounds a bit too much.

Do you mean there will be 50000km of new expressways by 2013? Is that really possible? I mean even in China that sounds a bit too much.

That sounds about right... the original plan was to continue at about 5000km per year.

However, they approved all the projects from 2010-2020 just after the financial crisis hit in 2008. And voila, they all get completed sometime between 2011-2013.

Do you mean there will be 50000km of new expressways by 2013? Is that really possible? I mean even in China that sounds a bit too much.

The data is based on the collection of planning expressway distance by all provinces. The real construction data might be different but not likely too much away from that. Actually I'm also interested to know by year end how many kms really get built.

Thanks for some clarification. By any means, this is more than just impressive. China is acting wise building up the world-class infrastructure. Even in a case of possible future financial difficulties there won't be any regrets because it's a massive tangible asset which cannot be taken away by crises or financial bubbles as is the case with cash reserves or stocks.

Also, according to Wikipedia China should have over 76 000km of expressways by the end of 2010. So that should be No.1 in the world by this measure overtaking the US interstate length.

Exactly. Unlike the railway construction which is planned and managed by MOR, expressway construction does not need to be approved by a single ministry, and therefore is very hard to be summarized. Guess we will have to wait for the data published by each province.


The data is based on the collection of planning expressway distance by all provinces. The real construction data might be different but not likely too much away from that. Actually I'm also interested to know by year end how many kms really get built.

Actually I updated the wikipedia entry. lol

Thanks for some clarification. By any means, this is more than just impressive. China is acting wise building up the world-class infrastructure. Even in a case of possible future financial difficulties there won't be any regrets because it's a massive tangible asset which cannot be taken away by crises or financial bubbles as is the case with cash reserves or stocks.

Also, according to Wikipedia China should have over 76 000km of expressways by the end of 2010. So that should be No.1 in the world by this measure overtaking the US interstate length.

I thought the NRDC still approves the overall Rail and expressway network plans. Then it's up to the provinces to fund and build

Exactly. Unlike the railway construction which is planned and managed by MOR, expressway construction does not need to be approved by a single ministry, and therefore is very hard to be summarized. Guess we will have to wait for the data published by each province.

Actually the U.S. still outruns China for a few more years. The Interstate Highway network is approximately 75% of the total freeway network in the United States. Many areas also have US Highways and State Highways that are built to Interstate standards.

which makes Jiangxi's expressway length surpassing 3000km (3040km).

Total length: 607km
Total cost: 27.065 bln yuan

Shicheng-Ji'an expressway (石城至吉安): 190.7km
Yingtan-Ruijin expressway (鹰潭至瑞金): 308.84km
Ganzhou Ring expressway road (赣州绕城高速): 52.7km
Pengze-Hukou expressway (彭泽至湖口): 65.178km

There are 5 expressways under construction in Jaingxi Province. The expressway length will reach 4000km in 2012 and 4800km in 2015.

Shicheng-Ji'an expressway (石城至吉安):

Length: 190.7km
19 Tunnels, 21km
164 bridges, 30km
tunnel/bridge ratio: 27.1%
Cost: 10.2786 bln yuan (one of the most expensive built)

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx216/davidwei01/161_95465_98d37d36b5d8b35.jpg

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx216/davidwei01/2010091507482219829.jpg

Yingtan-Ruijin expressway (鹰潭至瑞金):

length: 308.84km
Cost: 13 bln yuan
Speed: 100km/h
Landscaping cost: 420 mln yuan

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx216/davidwei01/2010091311471496966.jpg

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx216/davidwei01/2010091311424592820.jpg

Ganzhou Ring expressway road (赣州绕城高速):

Length: 52.7km
Cost: 2.16 bln yuan
Speed: 100km/h

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx216/davidwei01/2010091311381751083-1.jpg

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx216/davidwei01/2010091311394092739.jpg

Pengze-Hukou expressway (彭泽至湖口):

Length: 65.178km
Cost: 1.62 bln yuan

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx216/davidwei01/2010091311333643615.jpg

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx216/davidwei01/2010091311352022180.jpg

(www.china-highway.com)

Very nice roads!

amazing :)

Sorry for my ignorance, but I don't quite understand the Chinese road classification system. If you read about Chinese National Highways on wikipedia, it says that not all of them are of expressway standard. Does this mean that some of them are below expressway standard? If so then how many motorway standard roads are there in China?

Expressways are not numbered like in many other countries (although there appear to be numbers for some urban expressway systems). The National Highway system is, to my knowledge, similar to the US Highway system. Expressways (motorways / freeways) parallel National Highways often.

The guo dao (National Highways) usually aren't expressways, now they are generally used as free alternatives to the tolled expressways

So I guess the standards in China aren't as simple as they are elsewhere? If so then if we take European motorway standard as the benchmark, how many motorways would there be in China?

^^ see here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expressways_of_China

I think bleetz is trying to ask whether all expressways in China are of similar standard i.e. a 2+2 with a hard shoulder acceleration/slowing lanes, only grade separated junctions etc. So far we got some answers but none that actually answered the question. :D

Wikipedia article isn't 100% clear about that as well but I pretty much assume that an expressway in China means same as motorway, autobahn, autoroute, autovia/autopista or autostrada in Europe or Interstate hwy/Freeway in US. In fact, even in Europe there are some noticeable differences between the standard peculiarities but the general menaing is more or less the following: at least 2 lanes each direction with opposing traffic flows physically separated by either barrier or green lane, only grade separated junctions, hard paved shoulders (typically), speed limit of 110-130km/h, reasonably long and spacious acceleration and slowing down lanes, road signs with a different color from regular roads, limitations on what can use the road (i.e. only motor vehicles that can go at least 60km/h) etc.

but the general menaing is more or less the following: at least 2 lanes each direction with opposing traffic flows physically separated by either barrier or green lane, only grade separated junctions, hard paved shoulders (typically), speed limit of 110-130km/h, reasonably long and spacious acceleration and slowing down lanes, road signs with a different color from regular roads, limitations on what can use the road (i.e. only motor vehicles that can go at least 60km/h) etc.

That is pretty much the loose definition of expressway in China. There are more requirements(and I assume so for any similar definition of expressway or motorway in the world), but these must be satisfied before a road is classified as an expressway in China.

There are five standards of roads from the engineering perspective in China: expressway and Grade 1-4 (in the order from the best to the worst). National or provincial highways could be of any standard. The national trunk highway system(national expressway network) in China is more like American interstate highway system.

All expressways in China are "freeway" standard. The expressway system is completely separate from the National Highway system. National Highways can be all different quality and configuration of roads, and they were instituted shortly after the PRC was founded in 1949. Expressways were started to be built in the late 80s and are a completely different network.

Not necessarily high-way related but I found some cool infographics related to cars and transport.

http://www.spacy.me/forum/Personally-Owned-cars-china-2002-2009.gif

http://www.spacy.me/forum/Drivers-licenses-China-1978-2009.gif

These infographics give a good sense of the scale that the amount of cars is growing at a staggering rate. And you can see why there is a need for so many new roads.

More here:
http://chinfographics.com/

It is just the tip of the iceberg though, there will be many more. 26 million cars on 1.3 billion is still nothing. If you count on 400 cars per 1,000 population (like western countries with low auto rates), you will end up with 520 million cars.

^^ Yeah that was what I was thinking too. Still only 26 million cars in 2009....The biggest growth has yet to come.

^^ Yeah that was what I was thinking too. Still only 26 million cars in 2009....The biggest growth has yet to come.

The growth is more or less stable... The sustainability of this growht is however question.

Its not probable that the world would be able to sustain almost tripple the EU+USA car quantity given the same car penetration and current energy consumtpion levels in these countries.

That is why we need other portable energy sources, that are sustainable and affordable. Electricity looks promising, since it is possible to generate it in a sustainable and commercial scale, but the range of electric cars is still a problem. Right now, electricity is interesting for households with a second car, which do not travel long distances. (city cars). Another problem of electricity right now is its power, you cannot power a commercial van or truck for long distances yet.

The growth is more or less stable... The sustainability of this growht is however question.

Its not probable that the world would be able to sustain almost tripple the EU+USA car quantity given the same car penetration and current energy consumtpion levels in these countries.

Look at it this way

If a car typically lasts 10years, then you need to produce an average of 50million cars per year to sustain a car population of 500million.

I think that ends up as an additional 20 million barrels per day (MBPD) of oil. This is a huge amount of new oil to produce, which the planners don't think can be produced economically.

So this explains the push into electric and alternative fuel vehicles, even though they're not economically viable at this time.

That is why we need other portable energy sources, that are sustainable and affordable. Electricity looks promising, since it is possible to generate it in a sustainable and commercial scale, but the range of electric cars is still a problem. Right now, electricity is interesting for households with a second car, which do not travel long distances. (city cars). Another problem of electricity right now is its power, you cannot power a commercial van or truck for long distances yet.

Yup...

The only possible portable and high capacity storage of electricity that I can see is in the hydrogen. However the effectivity is rather low... Neverthless, hydrogen could also solve the problems of "green" wind, sea, light, electricity sources = the volatility of the production of these sources. Wind turbine may indefinetly produce hydrogen, which can be then once in a time collected (harvested).

The only sollution for the power grid are then the nuclear power plants, especially the newer generations (e.g. the breeder reactors). I already discussed some ideas I have about the infrastructure of the future...

Hefei West elevated road. Opened on Septmeber 30 this year. Posted by XYF123.
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Before the opening
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Personally I think China of all countries needs to most seriously consider alternative modes of transport to the car. Car ownership should stay well below European levels simply because the country is too densely populated it'd be sad indeed if everywhere was turned into massive superhighways (OK that's a hyperbole). Modern city planning in China does not seem to emphasize enough on urban realm, accessibility and permeability, i.e. features that pedestrians find 'nice' to walk in or easy to access public transport of all kinds, so woud dissuade people from buying and using cars.

I agree. They should build tons of railways everywhere, so that railways become the people's favourite transport by far. About highways, double or even multi level highways as well as underground highways should become very common in a mid term.

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BY 洋聪

^^jinghu-ningtong-yanjiang expressway?

Sorry for my ignorance, but I don't quite understand the Chinese road classification system. If you read about Chinese National Highways on wikipedia, it says that not all of them are of expressway standard. Does this mean that some of them are below expressway standard? If so then how many motorway standard roads are there in China?

i am not a native english speaker, i dont know the difference of "high way,expressway, free way" .
in china, 高速公路(high speed road by character means) is the only word , and has very clear and stricktly definition:能适应年平均昼夜小客车交通量为25000辆以上、专供汽车分道高速行驶、并全部控制出入的公路”。一般能适应120公里/小时或者更高的速度，要求路线顺畅，纵坡平缓，路面有4个以上车道的宽度。中间设置分隔带，采用沥青混凝土或水泥混凝土高级路面，为保证行车安全设有齐全的标志、标线、信号及照明装置；禁止行人和非机动车在路上行走，与其他线路采用立体交叉、行人跨线桥或地道通过。
i'll tring to translation: Can adapt the annual average day for more than 25,000 passenger traffic; high-speed, general can adapt to 120 kilometers per hour or higher speed, closed with no traffic lights,smooth, longitudinal grade, at least 4 lanes, completed symbols and lines, signal and lighting devices, prohibit the pedestrian and walk in the streets, and other lines using three-dimensional, pedestrian tunnels or by increases.
so i dont think "not all of them are of expressway standard". we have tons of nice road with say sommth paved 12 lanes ways, but no one call them "高速公路".

Highway = any (major) public road, usually one lane per direction.

Expressway = substandard freeway in Europe / United States, but a full freeway-standard road (see below) in Asia and eastern U.S.

Freeway = full freeway: 100 - 130 km/h, at least 2x2 lanes, median, shoulders, grade-separation.

Thus, freeway equals Asian expressways. (Japan, Malaysia, Singapore, China, Taiwan, Thailand, Philippines, etc)

^^jinghu-ningtong-yanjiang expressway?
Some of the photos were taken from the expressways you mentioned.

高速公路, Gaosu Gonglu, means expressway, as far as I know.
BTW, the second photo was taken near the Northern terminus of the G35 aka Jiguang Expressway.

Sorry for my ignorance, but I don't quite understand the Chinese road classification system. If you read about Chinese National Highways on wikipedia, it says that not all of them are of expressway standard. Does this mean that some of them are below expressway standard? If so then how many motorway standard roads are there in China?

What the article is trying to say is that in China there isn't a separate numbering system for expressways; for example, The road Lhasa -> Shigatse -> Nepal (G318) is a G-road, but expressways are most of the time also G-roads.

Highway = any (major) public road, usually one lane per direction.

Expressway = substandard freeway in Europe / United States, but a full freeway-standard road (see below) in Asia and eastern U.S.

Freeway = full freeway: 100 - 130 km/h, at least 2x2 lanes, median, shoulders, grade-separation.

Thus, freeway equals Asian expressways. (Japan, Malaysia, Singapore, China, Taiwan, Thailand, Philippines, etc)

From an English - Chinese Dictionary:

Expressway = 高速道路、快速干道

Freeway = 高速公路


Still the same thing.

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BY 洋聪

Why 2 zebras so close next to each other? Does this road (bridge) even have sidewalks?

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^^ They aren't really zebras. I've seen plenty of such zebra-like marks on full-fledged expressways. I guess they're used to reduce speed on expressways ( maybe by fooling people that there's a pedestrian crossing there? :D )

Speed camera would be a better solution. :D

Those are distance indication marks to help drivers visually gauge and keep following distance.

^^ They aren't really zebras. I've seen plenty of such zebra-like marks on full-fledged expressways. I guess they're used to reduce speed on expressways ( maybe by fooling people that there's a pedestrian crossing there? :D )
That's because they are supposedly rumble strips (supposedly because this is China after all).

Speed camera would be a better solution. :D
It's China. They could care less. :wallbash: Useless vermin...

Those are distance indication marks to help drivers visually gauge and keep following distance.
See first reply.

^^ actually hmmwv is right. I am not sure how it works outside China, but for anyone who wants to pass the written test in China, he/she is required to know that. you can also see the sign in that picture indicating the end point of 100m.

http://www.aqtd.cn/jtaq/UploadFiles_5548/200705/20070525115614273.gif


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and here are the rumble strips shown in jiangwho's post . (not supposedly, they actually work)
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4108/5092599887_db065b51c0_b.jpg

Speed camera would be a better solution. :D

There are cameras. you can see the cameras on the pics below:

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Here you see how far is the distance from 0M to 100M.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4083/5099082833_7ecf3beecd_b.jpg

And the screen below shows that the bus registration number of PD8818 which illegally changed its lane caught on the camera.

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Are those speed cameras or just CCTV cameras?

I meant speed camera as in radar not CCTV camera but thanks anyway. Like this:

http://membres.multimania.fr/forum406/images/Panneau_radar_automatique.jpg

^^ Yes there are point to point average speed cameras. There are also cameras that detect large vehicles illegally in the fast lane, as is shown by the display board that "豫PD8818 coach bus have been caught in the express lane".

I meant speed camera as in radar not CCTV camera but thanks anyway. Like this:

http://membres.multimania.fr/forum406/images/Panneau_radar_automatique.jpg

There are radars for speed measurement on the bridge, see the pic below:
http://image.xinmin.cn/2008/04/30/20080430134822160842.jpg
http://news.xinmin.cn/domestic/shizheng/2008/04/30/1134636.html

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BY 洋聪

Something is wrong with the exit numbers. I have read on Wikipedia that they can be only up to 3 digits, so when the expressway reaches km 1000 the exit numbers resets back to 0 and starts over. Those 4 digit exit numbers sohuldn't be there.

Anyway, that exit 2444 (That should be exit 444 IMO) is the highest one I've seen. I thought that exit 1168 on Spanish A-7 was the highest exit number in the world...

BTW, what number would have the last exit of G30 just before KZ border? Something like 4280?

No, the exit numbers are correct, for the radial highways from Beijing, the exit number is the number of kilometers from Beijing

Something is wrong with the exit numbers. I have read on Wikipedia that they can be only up to 3 digits, so when the expressway reaches km 1000 the exit numbers resets back to 0 and starts over. Those 4 digit exit numbers sohuldn't be there.

Anyway, that exit 2444 (That should be exit 444 IMO) is the highest one I've seen. I thought that exit 1168 on Spanish A-7 was the highest exit number in the world...

BTW, what number would have the last exit of G30 just before KZ border? Something like 4280?

nice find, I didn't even notice that.

Anyway, G324 is not part of the national trunk highway system (NTHS), and thus has different exit numbering system. Notice the highway in that picture has three digits (G324, comparable to highways such as US-66 in USA), while the NTHS (similar to the interstate in USA) consists of expressways numbered single digit(G1-G9 from Beijing), double digits(other trunk expressways) and four digits (city ring road). So the wiki note for NTHS is correct, and the exit number 2444 is also ok.

For comparison, you can see G324 has a different color than G0401(the white dots above G0401 are "国家高速", the Chinese characters for NHTS)
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For G30 in Xinjiang, I happen to come across this picture
http://news.iyaxin.com/attachement/jpg/site2/20100706/00138f97aba60d9d8c1017.jpg

No, the exit numbers are correct, for the radial highways from Beijing, the exit number is the number of kilometers from Beijing

for national trunk highway system, the exit number only uses the last three digits of the distance.

OK, I'm just going by what my road atlas says :)

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Photo BY 洋聪

thanks for sharing.

oh yeah... it is any expressway in Xizang? i mean the toll expressway.

no

Chinese highways looks quite good!

thanks for sharing.

oh yeah... it is any expressway in Xizang? i mean the toll expressway.
You are welcome.

Here are some road pics from Xizang
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PHOTO BY M.Z

It's awesome that the camera will detect that motor coach in the passing lane, and then display its offense and license plate number on the big display. LOL. It's like saying "Shame on you, driver!"

Expressways in West China
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http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4070/5125951299_0a2b451c1e_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4047/5125951523_5f12a97ca3_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4027/5126556378_e75934594e_b.jpg

Photo from Xinhuanet

^^

That was some smart idea! I wonder if it's self-sustaining? :)

Any news?

edit

wow. I missed that they want to make expressway across Taiwan strait. (narrowest part=131km):nuts:

China’s First expressway in Tibet to open May’11

(TibetanReview.net, Dec16, 2010)

China said Dec 14 that it was on course to complete the first expressway in the Tibet Autonomous Region by Mar’11, in time for its opening in May’11. The expressway, a four-lane road linking Lhasa city proper and Gongkar Airport, had entered its final stage and would open in six months as expected, reported China’s official Xinhuanet news service Dec 14.

The report said that about 85 percent of the 38-km expressway had been completed, and workers were now focused on a 389-metre tunnel in the craggy mountains near Gongkar Airport. It cited Li Dingkun, an ethnic Chinese who is the leader of the construction team, as saying the tunnel would be completed by Mar’11, in time for the expressway to open in May’11 as scheduled.

The Lhasa-Gongkar Expressway runs along the southern bank of the Lhasa River, a tributary of Yarlung Tsangpo (Brahmaputra in India).

The report added that the 1.55 billion yuan (US$232.7 million) project would ease traffic pressure along the Lhasa section of the No. 318 national highway that sees frequent flooding and traffic jams.

source (http://www.tibetanreview.net/news.php?&id=7946)

Nearly 9,000 km expressways built in 2010 (12.28)

http://image.xinmin.cn/2010/12/29/20101229100742283198.jpg

The total expressway length has reached 74,000km by the end of 2010. The total road network is 3.983 million km.

The whole "7918" network will be completed by 2015.

source (http://news.sina.com.cn/c/2010-12-28/145621720805.shtml)

Updated Historical Development of Expressway Length in China

Year Distance (KM)
01-01-1988 0
01-01-1989 147
01-01-1990 271
01-01-1991 522
01-01-1992 574
01-01-1993 652
01-01-1994 1145
01-01-1995 1603
01-01-1996 2141
01-01-1997 3422
01-01-1998 4771
01-01-1999 8733
01-01-2000 11605
01-01-2001 16314
01-01-2002 19453
01-01-2003 25200
01-01-2004 29800
01-01-2005 34300
01-01-2006 41005
01-01-2007 45339
01-01-2008 53913
01-01-2009 60346
01-01-2010 65065
01-01-2011 74000

Nearly 9,000 km expressways built in 2010 (12.28)

http://image.xinmin.cn/2010/12/29/20101229100742283198.jpg

The total expressway length has reached 74,000km by the end of 2010. The total road network is 3.983 million km.

The whole "7918" network will be completed by 2015.

source (http://news.sina.com.cn/c/2010-12-28/145621720805.shtml)

Updated Historical Development of Expressway Length in China

Year Distance (KM)
01-01-1988 0
01-01-1989 147
01-01-1990 271
01-01-1991 522
01-01-1992 574
01-01-1993 652
01-01-1994 1145
01-01-1995 1603
01-01-1996 2141
01-01-1997 3422
01-01-1998 4771
01-01-1999 8733
01-01-2000 11605
01-01-2001 16314
01-01-2002 19453
01-01-2003 25200
01-01-2004 29800
01-01-2005 34300
01-01-2006 41005
01-01-2007 45339
01-01-2008 53913
01-01-2009 60346
01-01-2010 65065
01-01-2011 74000

9000KM of new expressway contructed in one year is beyond amazing! China's current expressway network (74000 km) is almost as big as the Interstate system of the USA (~75000 km). Of course, the USA also has expressways that are not part of the Interstate system.

The historical numbers are really informative.

The 9000 km expressways completed in 2010 are more than all expressways in China before 1999.

From 2007 to 2010 (4 years), almost 29,000km of expressways were built.

Construction of many expressways started in 2009, so when they are to be completed in the next few years, we will see another leap in the total length.

China still needs a lot of transportation infrastructures, and the construction boom of airports and high speed rail did not slow down expressway construction at all. US has around 100,000 km of expressways. It's going to take a couple of years for Chinese expressway system to reach that number.

on the news
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2010-12/28/content_11767623.htm

China's freeways extend 74,000 kilometers
(Xinhua)
Updated: 2010-12-28 22:30

BEIJING -- China has built 33,000 kilometers of new freeways over the past five years, taking the country's total to 74,000 kilometers, the country's top transportation official said Tuesday.

The total was still short of the 100,000 kilometers of expressways in the United States, the longest in the world, Li Shenglin, China's Minister of Transport said at a national conference on transportation.

Meanwhile, 639,000 kilometers of new roads were built over the past five years, with 527,000 kilometers of them built in rural areas, bringing the country's road length to well over 3.98 million kilometers, Li said.

According to the government's freeway development plan over the next five years, Li forecast China would complete construction of seven new freeways radiating out from the capital city of Beijing, nine expressways running north to south, as well as an extra 18 thruways running east to west.

By the end of the 12th Five-Year-Plan period (2011-2015), Li believed China could overtake the United States in terms of freeway developments and rank the first on earth in this regard.

It's something so funny to read about a so amazingly huge developement and five-year-plans at the same time :o

Gotta hand it to the Chinese Government..They definitely know what they're doing. GO CHINA!! :)

9000KM of new expressway contructed in one year is beyond amazing! China's current expressway network (74000 km) is almost as big as the Interstate system of the USA (~75000 km). Of course, the USA also has expressways that are not part of the Interstate system.

Correct, if we count all the expressway rated roads in America we have over 100,000km of them. A lot of sections of "US Highways" or "State Routes" are built to the same standards as Interstates.

Correct, if we count all the expressway rated roads in America we have over 100,000km of them. A lot of sections of "US Highways" or "State Routes" are built to the same standards as Interstates.

are those "state routes"you mentioned all without any traffic light(全封闭in chinese)?

This is an example of a freeway-grade State Route

State Route 91 in California:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fc/Ca-91_E_near_Ca-71.JPG/800px-Ca-91_E_near_Ca-71.JPG

are those "state routes"you mentioned all without any traffic light(全封闭in chinese)?
Yep. There is no requirement that a highway in the USA that is built to full freeway standards carry an 'interstate' route number. Some of the busiest highways in the USA are NOT 'interstates' (see: CA 91 above - it connects the southern Los Angeles metro area, including Orange County, with the Riverside County/'Inland Empire' area).

Mike

Yep. There is no requirement that a highway in the USA that is built to full freeway standards carry an 'interstate' route number. Some of the busiest highways in the USA are NOT 'interstates' (see: CA 91 above - it connects the southern Los Angeles metro area, including Orange County, with the Riverside County/'Inland Empire' area).

Mike

thank you very much, i get it now.

View on Beijing (right) and Tianjin (left) from ISS:
http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/507687main_image_1831_946-710.jpg

By the end of the 12th Five-Year-Plan period (2011-2015), Li believed China could overtake the United States in terms of freeway developments and rank the first on earth in this regard.
I just hope that once Chinese overtake the USA in terms of motorway development, they will not kill their own railroad just like it was done in the USA :D

don't worry about that, China's high speed rail is a huge success so far :D

View on Beijing (right) and Tianjin (left) from ISS:


Nice, you can actually see PEK from space.

I just hope that once Chinese overtake the USA in terms of motorway development, they will not kill their own railroad just like it was done in the USA :D

That's something we don't have to worry about given the speed of recent HSR and metro constructions, at least for now anyway.

I think it is simply impossible, considering the residential density of Chinese coastal regions. If you neglect the railways the congestion on the road would instantly get so bad that you would literally get stuck on the road for days until get evacuated by emergency services. So it's not like China has a choice.

I think that it will be in China where will emerge completaly new transportation system. It will be sort of hybrid between train and automobile transport. It will combine the advantages of both and eliminate the disadvantages. As for now I see China as the only country that could achieve something like that in the nearby future.

View on Beijing (right) and Tianjin (left) from ISS:
http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/507687main_image_1831_946-710.jpg

nice shot by NASA. a 180 degree rotation of the pic will give the normal map orientation.

Definitely agreed.

China will end up have the world's largest expressway network, HSR network and passenger air transport network. It just has the scale, size and population density to justify building all three networks. In addition, China will also have the world's largest metro systems.

The US has currently the largest expressway and air transport network, but will be difficult to sustain a large, national HSR network profitably.

Europe will probably come close to have all three networks at the same time compared to China, eventually.

I think that it will be in China where will emerge completaly new transportation system. It will be sort of hybrid between train and automobile transport. It will combine the advantages of both and eliminate the disadvantages. As for now I see China as the only country that could achieve something like that in the nearby future.

I think you need to see things in perspective. Of course China will have everything larger and more, simply because it dwarfs just about any country due to their population size (apart from India).

For example, to get the same motorway length/population ratio as the United States, China doesn't need 250.000 km of expressway but 430.000 kilometers of expressway.

^^Right because the things are in perspective the propositions are as they are.

By the hybrid I dont mean combination of the rail and road network in the sence of changing the mode of transport. I mean new mode of transport that would be hybrid of rail and road. In that transport would veheicles work in the train (hsr) system in the long distance and in the road system in the short distance.

btw. I assume that in that time the transport would be completaly covered by electric energy and fossile fules would not be used. Certainly not in this hybrid system. As China has just mastered as I guess fourth country in the world the technology of reworking nuclear waste this became more realistic.

Imagine it as joining small electric units in a rail system, in the meantime recharging their batteries, when reaching some bigger common destination point leaving the train formation and switching to conventional road. The low distance radius of batteries would be solved. The recharging would be helped. Also the congestion problems would be helped a lot as the train would replace the drivers thus maximize the speed while minimize the space needed.

The infrastructure change and construction needs of such a system are however huge. Well, where else should it happen than in a country where Maglev is comercially operational.


I mean seriously people. It is nice to talk about railway or roads, however we should look bit to the future. Roads are there thousand years, rail two hundered, motorways around hundered. We need to move on to some other standard...

You are essentially describing a pod system which the US started to experiment in the 70s and 80s, at the World Expo the GM Pavilion has a movie about a future Shanghai with such system.

Nice to know that someone else thinks about it too... :).

Nice to know that someone else thinks about it too... :).

May I recommend that you take a look at Masdar City. A city that is under construction near Abu Dhabi right now. It uses this kind of transport. Very intresting to see how things will work out there. :)

http://autogreenmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/masdar-prt-01.jpg

http://www.sincerelysustainable.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Masdar_prt.jpg

7UMvj2ZYnU8

I like it.

Just few things that I would point out.


- how is solved the interaction of these automated pads with other moving or stationary objects that are not in the "map".

-Is there an viable plan to create trully universal transport mode system? I describe it more in detail to show what I mean. In the same veheicle would be combined these things.

long distance:
In between the cities it would mount an high speed platform (e.g. railway, maglev...etc), create a train structure, rely on externa electricity supply, and recharge its own battery at the same time. This network could be used either by private or public units.

in the city:
It would work in the public transport pod network like in the Masdar city. It would be recharging while in dock, or perhaps even while in motion (depends if the technology could provide it). The city transport could be perhaps be the combination of an open road system (like in Masdar - using tires, no chargin in motion) and closed system (using rails, maglev, etc - on longer distance, with higher speeds, charging in motion - network structure as trams or metro in todays cities, hubbing to to open road system now and then). Used either by private or public units.

the last mile:
Outside the city, inside the city, locations outside the open or closed network. Not automated or only semi automated driving. Using current road infrastructure. Distance up to the battery capacity. Charging only on spot in the end. Used eventually onnly by the private units, or "rented units".

The point is, that the same unit should be able to use all these systems and speeds. Perhaps the only difference could be that the public units would be limited to first two, while private and rentable units could also do the last mile.

View on Beijing (right) and Tianjin (left) from ISS:
http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/507687main_image_1831_946-710.jpg


Is that really Tianjin on the left? Looks kinda close in the picture, I thought they would be farther apart.

Beijing's elevated highway tube was finished on 11.20. The 1800m highway tube was built to eliminate the noise since the highway flies over across the Beijing Zoo.

http://i2.sinaimg.cn/dy/c/p/2007-11-21/U1565P1T1D14356894F21DT20071121114821.jpg

http://i1.sinaimg.cn/dy/c/p/2007-11-21/U1565P1T1D14356896F21DT20071121114826.jpg

http://i1.sinaimg.cn/dy/c/p/2007-11-21/U1565P1T1D14356897F21DT20071121114830.jpg

http://i2.sinaimg.cn/dy/c/p/2007-11-21/U1565P1T1D14356895F21DT20071121114824.jpg

They did all that just for the zoo?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1359289/Drivers-escape-alive-motorway-section-collapses-beneath-sending-plunging-23ft-ground.html

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/02/22/article-1359289-0D4C01F9000005DC-652_634x414.jpg

Shoddy construction there. Hopefully does not have bad implications for the rest of the highway network or even the HSR lines.

Why transport coal by truck anyway? That's why you have rail freight, large bulk quantities.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1359289/Drivers-escape-alive-motorway-section-collapses-beneath-sending-plunging-23ft-ground.html

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/02/22/article-1359289-0D4C01F9000005DC-652_634x414.jpg

Shoddy construction there. Hopefully does not have bad implications for the rest of the highway network or even the HSR lines.


don't jump to baseless conclusion so fast. there could possibly be problems caused by design and construction, but the overloading trucks are directly responsible for the collapse.

those trucks should be prevented from running on the roads, seriously, they are literally the 'road killers' as they are destroying the paved roads. when we talk about overloading, you might be thinking of 10 tons over the limit, but in China it is not uncommon that a 30 ton limit modified truck carries 150 tons of goods.

Why transport coal by truck anyway? That's why you have rail freight, large bulk quantities.

freight rail in China does not have the capacity for all the commodities. The 600+ km Daqin railway alone transported more than 400 million tons of coal last year, but it is still not enough. Plus, even when coal transported on trains reaches the railway station, a part of it needs to be loaded by trucks anyway. Not every factory can afford a branch line from the railway station.

There appears to be no rebar in these sections.....i'm not at all surprised by this...china is taking shortcuts and there starting to catch up...

They did all that just for the zoo?

there seems no other options (except relocating the zoo). Beijing zoo is a landmark of Beijing and nobody wants the animals to be disturbed by the new road.

there seems no other options (except relocating the zoo). Beijing zoo is a landmark of Beijing and nobody wants the animals to be disturbed by the new road.

and a great place to buy clothes, lol

There appears to be no rebar in these sections.....i'm not at all surprised by this...china is taking shortcuts and there starting to catch up...

It's a gap for temperature expansion point, not supposed to have rebar, only vertical support.

Still, in my opinion there is not enough rebar in concrete after looking at other picture from the article. Ok for overloading, but in modern construction bridges must not fail even when they are completely full of fully loaded trucks (bumper-to-bumper).

Quote:
By the end of the 12th Five-Year-Plan period (2011-2015), Li believed China could overtake the United States in terms of freeway developments and rank the first on earth in this regard.

Now 2011 and beyond China will going to overtake any others world countries in every thing, Biggest in everything. Now already no. 1 in many thing..

Still, in my opinion there is not enough rebar in concrete after looking at other picture from the article. Ok for overloading, but in modern construction bridges must not fail even when they are completely full of fully loaded trucks (bumper-to-bumper).

I think if it was due to rebar issue, the collapsed part would have shattered. The whole accident scene would have been totally different. In fact the elevated ramp was tipped over due to unbalance. One of the trucks broke down and stopped on the left lane of the ramp, and the other trucks were trying to over pass it on the right side of the ramp.

completely full of fully loaded trucks (bumper-to-bumper) is not comparable to a few seriously over-loaded trucks, since in latter case pressure is not evenly distributed and is over the limit the ramp can handle. Trucks with goods weighing 55 tons or more are forbidden to use this ramp, and apparently these trucks(especially the coal trucks) here are way over this limit.

those trucks should be prevented from running on the roads, seriously, they are literally the 'road killers' as they are destroying the paved roads. When I showed the pictures to a collegue of mine with Chinese roots, he mentioned there is massive fraud in China between contractors and government supervisors (bribing), with the result that not enough concrete reinforcement steel is being put into structures. As a result structures will collapse much earlier than expected. The coal trucks were just the straw that broke the camel's back after some years of carrying loads the structure simply couldn't cope with.

When I showed the pictures to a collegue of mine with Chinese roots, he mentioned there is massive fraud in China between contractors and government supervisors (bribing), with the result that not enough concrete reinforcement steel is being put into structures. As a result structures will collapse much earlier than expected. The coal trucks were just the straw that broke the camel's back after some years of carrying loads the structure simply couldn't cope with.

frankly, if you or your colleague have any idea how serious the overloading problem is in China, you would have realized what you have said is inaccurate.
Ask anyone in the Chinese transportation/logistics business, then you'll have a basic idea of the appalling situation.

There are also many surveys done to study this problem. A Class II highway with a designed lifetime of 15 years can only last for three years because of overloading. In one study an expressway with a designed lifetime of 15 years only lasted for 1.5 years and it had to be completely repaired, because almost every truck using it had loaded at least twice the goods of the limit. And it is not like you only have trucks like that once in a while, it is a heavily used expressway to transport goods, the impact cannot be neglected. There is no way a construction quality issue can reduce the road's lifetime by 90%.

construction quality issues exist, but they are far from the main cause. As for the accident you quoted, final report is not available yet, but preliminary investigation already showed that overloading is probably the cause.

Both of you are right. Shoddy construction practices, as a result of an infinitely corrupt system/poor construction practices, and the gross overloading of commercial vehicles, contribute to these kind of incidents. All that matters, is the bottom line. To Hell with everything else. At any cost. :ohno:

Is the constuction practice in China 'infinitely corrupt' ? I think this is higly debatable and to claim so is based on biased reasoning. Perhaps, in the past during the 80 and early nineties the structures produced were not good enough. But China is no more different than most countries when it comes to construction standard.

Given the scale of constructions in China (which is truly huge, as China produced almost half the worlds cement / concrete production), the number of failures have been very small. There will be bound to be failures, and even then these could be due to other factors due to design failure, overloading etc, rather than poor or faulty workmanship, corrupt practice during construction.

There is no country that have no have construction failures, and just pointing fingers at China is not really a fair way, unless it an be backed by convincing statistics.

Still, in my opinion there is not enough rebar in concrete after looking at other picture from the article. Ok for overloading, but in modern construction bridges must not fail even when they are completely full of fully loaded trucks (bumper-to-bumper).

Nonsense. One can't really say whether there should be enough rebar or not from the picture. Most bridge girders are post tensioned anyway, and longitudinal rebar requirements are minimal.

All bridges have load limits. There are regulations on the truck loads and the number of axles. Disaster can happen when load limits are ignored.

View on Beijing (right) and Tianjin (left) from ISS:
http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/507687main_image_1831_946-710.jpg

Awesome !!! the two pearls in Northern China !!!
you can see actually Tianjin just slighlty smaller than Beijing.

Nonsense. One can't really say whether there should be enough rebar or not from the picture. Most bridge girders are post tensioned anyway, and longitudinal rebar requirements are minimal.
I know how much rebar they put into highway bridges around here and how much I see it on the picture. Difference is obvious.

Also from above pictures it seems that this bridge was not pretensioned (pre-, not post-) and cocnrete reinforcement is from normal rebars only.

I think if it was due to rebar issue, the collapsed part would have shattered.
Wrong. I witnessed some demolitions of old highway bridges with old insufficient rebar and none shattered. And in their lifetime they could still support exceptional transports like 500+ tons heavy goods. Newer bridges with pretension and monolithic construction technique are even stronger.

Can anyone post find and post different angles of that collapsed bridge? I wanna see something. That pic doesn't tell the whole story.

I know how much rebar they put into highway bridges around here and how much I see it on the picture. Difference is obvious.

Also from above pictures it seems that this bridge was not pretensioned (pre-, not post-) and cocnrete reinforcement is from normal rebars only.


Wrong. I witnessed some demolitions of old highway bridges with old insufficient rebar and none shattered. And in their lifetime they could still support exceptional transports like 500+ tons heavy goods. Newer bridges with pretension and monolithic construction technique are even stronger.

If you have a picture please show them, and we can discuss the merit of your claim.

Anyway, if your claim is correct, one would expect to see more systemic failures or collapse. However, that has not been the case. In this particular case, a Chinese poster has already mentioned overloading a the prime suspect.

Seems this accident really becomes the hot topic in this thread.

The following overloading information comes from the investigation.

http://roll.sohu.com/20110225/n303595739.shtml

据悉，上虞相关部门在公证处参与下，对侧翻车辆、所载货物进行了称重。结果显示：车牌为“皖D”的运石煤车辆，车身自重29.4吨，所载石煤总质量 96.2吨，超载65.9吨，超载217.5%；“豫P”运石煤车辆自重30.58吨，所载石煤总质量93.86吨，超载60.86吨，超载 184.4%；“皖J”运硫磺车辆自重25.4吨，硫磺总质量85.33吨，超载55.33吨，超载184.4%；“豫B”运棉籽车辆自重9.86吨，所载棉籽18.66吨，超载1.73吨，超载10.2%。


first column is the truck weight, second column is the total weight of the loaded goods, third column is the weight of the overloaded goods and the last column is the overloading proportion

truck1: 9.86 18.66 1.73 10.2%
truck2: 29.4 96.2 65.9 217.5%
truck3: 30.58 93.86 60.86 184.4%
truck4: 25.4 85.33 55.33 184.4%



Truck 1 broke down and stopped in the left lane; it is really light compared to the other trucks. Truck 2, 3 and 4 tried to pass truck 1 on the right side of the ramp at the same time.

Basically, these three trucks were supposed to load up to about 30 tons, while in reality they loaded about 3 times of the limit(about 90 tons), overloading by 184.4%-217.5%. Also these trucks weigh over 110 tons in total each(goods+truck weight), more than twice the designed limit (55 tons).

Like I mentioned earlier, the investigation is still ongoing. For anyone who is interested in this case, I'd say we should just wait for the final result rather than judge the situation by a few images. For one thing, none of us was able to determine how much the trucks overloaded by just studying the pictures.

Unbalance. Sounds a bit like the I-35W bridge fiasco in Minneapolis a couple of years ago.

Then it was shoddy construction practices. Had that bridge been PROPERLY built, it should have EASILY been able to take the weight of those trucks. This is what happens when you build something as cheaply as possible. :bash: But hey, it's China. People don't matter. Money does. Cutting corners to save as much money as possible, is all that matters.

If you have a picture please show them, and we can discuss the merit of your claim.
I've studied pictures from this link:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1359289/Drivers-escape-alive-motorway-section-collapses-beneath-sending-plunging-23ft-ground.html

then adding my observations and experience as civil engineer.

I've studied pictures from this link:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1359289/Drivers-escape-alive-motorway-section-collapses-beneath-sending-plunging-23ft-ground.html

then adding my observations and experience as civil engineer.

:shocked: :uh: :eek2: :runaway: There's virtually NO rebar whatsoever in there!!! It's just solid concrete, which confirms a lot of people's suspicions. No freaking wonder the bridge failed. While I'm not a civil engineer like Keber, I know enough about working with concrete and that there should have been a LOT more rebar in there.

This is what happens when you build something as cheaply as possible. :bash: But hey, it's China. People don't matter. Money does. Cutting corners to save as much money as possible, is all that matters.

Maybe it would be better to not build any expressways at all unless they can't build them properly, and in the meantime allow people to die in head-on collisions on 2-laned undivided highways?

:shocked: :uh: :eek2: :runaway: There's virtually NO rebar whatsoever in there!!! It's just solid concrete, which confirms a lot of people's suspicions. No freaking wonder the bridge failed. While I'm not a civil engineer like Keber, I know enough about working with concrete and that there should have been a LOT more rebar in there.

If you have no idea about civil engineering then you shouldn't jump to conclusion so quickly. It's very clear that the bridge's surface is intact at the time of the collapse, indicating the problem occurred at where the column is joined with the surface, and not revealed in any of the pictures. Unbalanced load is probably a primary suspect, not the rebar.

According to the published report there are close to 300t of load on one side of the bridge, this shouldn't be a problem for most bridges here in the States, but not all bridges, especially ramps, in China are designed with such high grade of load tolerance.

If they keep running 90 tonne trucks with 4 or 5 axles on Chinese expressways all of them will have completely destroyed pavement in 10 years time.

In Europe, most roads are designed to handle up to 11.5 tonnes axle load. If you run trucks with over 90 tonnes you need 8 or 9 axles, not 5.

hmmwv: Then perhaps you can explain why there is virtually no rebar in there. IF there had been an adequate amount of rebar in the concrete, and, if the quality of concrete was properly mixed (not too "wet" nor too "dry"), this bridge might not have failed. If it did, it probably would not have collapsed, though it would have had to be torn down and rebuilt anyway for obvious reasons.

The quality of bridges, or for that matter, ALL structures in China, are of questionable quality. The reasons why, have been stated already, so there's no need to repeat them here.

wyqtor: Head on crashes happen every day in China, both on and off main highways. Yes, the expressways are needed. The problem is the rampant corruption, cutting costs, even if it means endangering life and shoddy construction practices are the biggest problems. Corrupt corporations will do whatever is required to cut costs (lower/poorer quality materials, reducing the amount of materials used) and use the cheapest (often unskilled) labor to get the job done. What matter to these corporations, is the bottom line. Nothing else matters. Even if found guilty, bribes are often paid to get a court decision in their favor.

When the country TRULY cleans up it's act and starts to clean up it's act, then, and only then, is there hope for massive improvements in construction standards.

I've studied pictures from this link:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1359289/Drivers-escape-alive-motorway-section-collapses-beneath-sending-plunging-23ft-ground.html

then adding my observations and experience as civil engineer.

The part without much rebar is not the load bearing main member. It is part of the parapat wall (low side wall) of the bridge. The photo does not in anyway show the lack of rebar in the main struture.

The main load is carried by the central girder, which is the thickened part along the central axis.

hmmwv: Then perhaps you can explain why there is virtually no rebar in there. IF there had been an adequate amount of rebar in the concrete, and, if the quality of concrete was properly mixed (not too "wet" nor too "dry"), this bridge might not have failed. If it did, it probably would not have collapsed, though it would have had to be torn down and rebuilt anyway for obvious reasons.



If you do not know about civil engineering and the construction industry in China then just shut up instead of embarrassing yourself. Your unsubstantiated claims are laughable. Chinese infrastructure quality are among the best in the world. Corruption in engineering project is minimal.
Projects in China are built to the highest quality possible, regardless of the cost needed. Safety and quality always come first, unlike some other countries. Chinese engineers, workers and the people in general put great attention to details in carrying out their tasks. In China, infrastructure projects are designed and built to high standards the first time, as any extra maintenance will need more resources.

You sound like a propagandist. A silly one.

You sound like a propagandist. A silly one.

LOL I agree :nuts:

it's true though, the ratio of infrastructure failure to total infrastructure built is infinitesimal and much lower than many other countries'

it's true though, the ratio of infrastructure failure to total infrastructure built is infinitesimal and much lower than many other countries'
Any data to prove that? Also in comparison with age of the collapsed objects?

there are wide spread corruptions in china. the construction method in china are different than the us or europe. in china, they do little survey and start doing construction. in order to "get more money", contractors pick the cheapest material they could find. you get what you give for cheap labor that you have people who don't pay attention to detail. the mentality of "it works before, and it still works" are all over, so you have construction crew that use old-school style instead of using precise, accurate technology on building and quality control on infrastructures. history repeats itself if nobody learns the mistake.

Any data to prove that? Also in comparison with age of the collapsed objects?

you'd hear in the news if anything failed. It's a very rare occurrence. PRIVATE construction sometimes is with shoddy materials, so apartment blocks may collapse or tip over :ohno: but high-priority PUBLIC infrastructure such as high-speed rail, subway tunnels, and expressways is built with the highest-quality materials.

there are wide spread corruptions in china. the construction method in china are different than the us or europe.

In China, they stress getting it right the first time. Any further work to rectify mistakes will require extra resources. It is this Chinese attention to details and getting it right the first time mentality that are producing the high quality of Chinese construction.
Therefore, they always use the modern building techniques and high quality materials.

there are wide spread corruptions in china. the construction method in china are different than the us or europe. in china, they do little survey and start doing construction. in order to "get more money", contractors pick the cheapest material they could find. you get what you give for cheap labor that you have people who don't pay attention to detail. the mentality of "it works before, and it still works" are all over, so you have construction crew that use old-school style instead of using precise, accurate technology on building and quality control on infrastructures. history repeats itself if nobody learns the mistake.

Speaking from experience?
If that is the case, would China be able to built excellent modern world class infrastructures (thousands of kms modern expressways, high speed railways, airports), facilities (stadiums, theatres, museums etc) and buildings that are the envy of many?

Can we compare what China has produced with what you country has deliverd of the past five years? And if the products are defective, we will hear such news about widespread failure or new repair being done.

Chinese infrastructure has yet to prove if it's worth its salt. Most of it is brand new. Wait until the maintenance round will massively kick in around 2050.

Speaking from experience?
If that is the case, would China be able to built excellent modern world class infrastructures (thousands of kms modern expressways, high speed railways, airports), facilities (stadiums, theatres, museums etc) and buildings that are the envy of many?

Can we compare what China has produced with what you country has deliverd of the past five years? And if the products are defective, we will hear such news about widespread failure or new repair being done.

I'm from china. the news always focus on the good side; like the length of a highway being done, this railway station was built..etc. they sometimes report thing like the bridge collapse. (10 years ago was rare) you would see a brand new bridge being built just now, in about 6 years it will looks like it's a 30 year old bridge. i don't have engineering background or experience, but i've seen a lot roads and bridges that are brand new will turn into a road with potholes and bridges that you don't even wanna go across.

in about 6 years it will looks like it's a 30 year old bridge. i don't have engineering background or experience, but i've seen a lot roads and bridges that are brand new will turn into a road with potholes and bridges that you don't even wanna go across.

完全是胡说八道. 不能以偏概全。

完全是胡说八道. 不能以偏概全。

What Oliver said: Is completely nonsense. can not be generalized.

If you say so... I'm not convinced, nor are others. Nuff said.

I wouldn't be surprised if quality standards in China are not the same as, say, in Germany or Netherlands when it comes to road building. It's huge money and where there is huge money there is corruption and all kinds of other non-transparent activities. Such things constantly happen in many (but not all) EU countries as well... as they do all around the world. Even if formal standards are high it doesn't mean that in reality someone didn't pocket some cash or didn't "transfer" some materials or didn't intentionally reduce quality in order to get an early maintenance contract. Knowing that China is not yet the most corruption-free place in the world it's not surprising that this would happen. Especially when you deal with billions of USD worth of contracts. Such problems in road-building exist everywhere except countries which have virtually no corruption i.e. Germany, Scandinavians and a few others. Otherwise you have to expect shortcomings here and there. We will probably never find out whether such accidents happened because of this or was it simply an error or something else.

Such problems in road-building exist everywhere except countries which have virtually no corruption i.e. Germany, Scandinavians and a few others.

Corruption is in every country. The differences are just the means of how it is being done. The most corrupted enviroment is the army business, second one to it is the infrastructure construction. Third one I would say are IT solutions. Its logical, since in these areas are concentrated the governmental investments. You cannot corrupt in the area of mandatory costs, you can easily corrupt in the area of investments, and these are more or less on the same level around the world.

完全是胡说八道. 不能以偏概全。

wow really? i ain't making nonsense. i'm based on my observation in china. it's great that they build a lot of infrastructures, but what people don't see is the quality.

this wave of meaningless ranting and bashing gotta be put to an end.

it is really weird that few of the recent commentators cared about the development of Chinese highways and expressways, shared any information or update, one accident and they acted like flies to maneuver. some joker even has no engineering background, has no idea about Chinese roads of any sort (probably never seen or been on one), and most importantly, has no DATA of any kind to support his claims, and yet he talks the loudest.

Let's just wait for the investigation results. Meanwhile, for anyone who has various claims, better show some evidences (photos of poorly maintained roads are fine too) or data.

I'm from china. the news always focus on the good side; like the length of a highway being done, this railway station was built..etc. they sometimes report thing like the bridge collapse. (10 years ago was rare) you would see a brand new bridge being built just now, in about 6 years it will looks like it's a 30 year old bridge. i don't have engineering background or experience, but i've seen a lot roads and bridges that are brand new will turn into a road with potholes and bridges that you don't even wanna go across.

Like you said you are not engineer. But having potholes on the pavement is normal, after just a couple of years. The road surface is normally repaved every couple of years. In may countries, potholes can appear right after a snow storm or heavy rain. Even overloaded heavy vehicles can do damage to the road surface.

Concrete pavement reinforce with iron bars are usually more durable than those paved with bitumen. What is most common material used for pavement around the world?

Agree 100%. The scale of Chinese infrastructure constructions is truly huge and dwarves that any other country by long distance. Many are these projects are built in very challenging environments and difficult terrains.

What we are seeing here at times are just the usual ignorant and prejudices from people with misconceived idea of China. However, I do concede that China still has much to learn in regards to infrastructure maintenance.

wow really? i ain't making nonsense. i'm based on my observation in china. it's great that they build a lot of infrastructures, but what people don't see is the quality.

which chinese express way looks old and dameged? i've almost never seen one.

photos found in huning express way web site(offically). http://www.jingechina.com/show.asp?id=928
shanghai-nanjing express way
http://www.jingechina.com/admin/eWebEditor/UploadFile/2008-4/22/29-30.jpg
http://www.jingechina.com/admin/eWebEditor/UploadFile/2008-4/22/19-20.jpg
http://www.jingechina.com/admin/eWebEditor/UploadFile/2008-4/22/37-38.jpg

http://www.jingechina.com/admin/eWebEditor/UploadFile/2008-4/22/39-40.jpg
http://www.jingechina.com/admin/eWebEditor/UploadFile/2008-4/22/47-48.jpg
http://www.jingechina.com/admin/eWebEditor/UploadFile/2008-4/22/53-54.jpg

http://www.jingechina.com/admin/eWebEditor/UploadFile/2008-4/22/45-46.jpg
http://www.jingechina.com/admin/eWebEditor/UploadFile/2008-4/22/43-44.jpg

pic by hidden dragon
http://bbs.home.news.cn/upfiles/04EB83D3.002C
http://bbs.home.news.cn/upfiles/04EB83F2.002C

Are the pillars for elevated highways normally designed to withstand impacts or earthquakes?

which chinese express way looks old and dameged? i've almost never seen one.

京珠高速公路 在湖南省湘潭县附近

京珠高速公路 在湖南省湘潭县附近

wow, only this?

Where are the widest highways in China and how wide are they? Any 6x6+?

which chinese express way looks old and dameged? i've almost never seen one.

I believe he was brainwashed by western media's day-by-day day-after-day propaganda. I am sorry to use the word "brainwashed", but it is true... :ohno:

Where are the widest highways in China and how wide are they? Any 6x6+?

http://www.moc.gov.cn/zhuantizhuanlan/gonglujiaotong/wuzongqiheng_QXGT/chengjiuzhanshi/tupianzhanshi/200712/W020071217808139521364.jpg

^^Shen-Da Expressway only has 4+4 lanes. 4+4 is sort of a standard for many expressways in China.

There is a section in Fuzhou where the airport expressway joins the city ring road, and that has 6+6 lanes. But that does not apply to the entire expressway.

The claimed widest expressway in China is Shuiguan Expressway in Shenzhen, which has 5+5 lanes. It is being renovated and will serve the 2011 Universidad.

The Expressway between Shanghai and Nanjing is planned to be expanded to 6+6 from current 4+4. There could be more cases, but those are the ones that come to my mind.

Overall, Chinese expressways do not have that many lanes. There are some city roads which are much wider but they are generally short and not grade separated.

It's probably a matter of a few years till monster highways are needed to link the cities within the main urban clusters.

^^Shen-Da Expressway only has 4+4 lanes. 4+4 is sort of a standard for many expressways in China.

There is a section in Fuzhou where the airport expressway joins the city ring road, and that has 6+6 lanes. But that does not apply to the entire expressway.

.
1\ does emergency lane counted in?
2\ should city ring road ,airport connect counted in?

1\ does emergency lane counted in?
2\ should city ring road ,airport connect counted in?

1. The emergency lanes you mentioned are actually hard shoulders(路肩，亦称紧急停车带). They are not actual lanes.

2. When talking about expressways, many city ring roads (numbered Gxxxx) and airport expressways should be counted. The example in Fuzhou I gave refers to the section that two expressways join together. Since it's from two expressways and the two separate after a distance, it is not strictly fair to call it the widest expressway.

Shanghai

Mega map :cheers:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5258/5550217674_0f30b9d9eb_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/5550217674/)
Shanghai road map (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/5550217674/) by Chriszwolle (http://www.flickr.com/people/chriszwolle/), on Flickr

What's the point in posting these maps. We all know where to look for it if we wanted to see it.

Is this legal in China?
http://media.nu.nl/m/m1gz14daem1g.jpg

Is this legal in China?
http://media.nu.nl/m/m1gz14daem1g.jpg

this is an unusual pic, i think it's not legal. http://hangzhou.dc126.com/user/image_cp/200310/20052174027.jpg

yes it's legal... it's a specially designed truck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dXTh6f5lF8

pic by hidden dragon

非常美好的风景！高速公路也看来很好。:)

A lucky escape for these bus passengers

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12881327

Two elevated expressways - the Ma'anshan Road Elevated Expressway and the Yuxi
Road Elevated Expressway - will open to traffic during the upcoming May Day holiday.

The 4.5-kilometer Ma'anshan Road Elevated Expressway runs from Xiaodongmen in Hefei, capital city of Anhui province, to the Chaohu Lake. Travel time from downtown to the lakeside will be shortened by roughly 70 percent to 10 minutes once the overhead highway is available.

A majority of the construction project has been finished, while the Tunxi Road Ramp, a section linking the expressway and the Tunxi Road, is expected to be completed after three months and minor facilities at some crossings are still under improvement, according to Ren Qinglong, who takes charge of the project. The retardation is a result of underground construction of the No.1 metro line which coincides with the elevated expressway, he said. The Ma'anshan Road Elevated Expressway will stay open to traffic despite those ongoing works.

May 1 will also see the other road, the Yuxi Road Elevated Expressway, open to traffic. The 1.1-kilometer highway joins the Datong Road to the east and the Binhe Road to the west, with eight lanes totaling 60 meters wide. The construction began last September.

Drivers will spend only about seven minutes on a single trip from downtown Hefei to Daxing town, Feidong county via the overhead expressway in contrast to a 40-minute drive previously.

(by Zheng Weiling)

http://english.anhuinews.com/system/2011/04/29/003986969.shtml

Pics by GL1234
http://pic.qnpic.com:83/r.jsp?fn=//fanjoin/share/2011/4/29/IMG_7263.jpg

http://pic.qnpic.com:83/r.jsp?fn=//fanjoin/share/2011/4/29/IMG_7267.jpg

http://pic.qnpic.com:83/r.jsp?fn=//fanjoin/share/2011/4/29/IMG_7268.jpg

http://pic.qnpic.com:83/r.jsp?fn=//fanjoin/share/2011/4/29/IMG_7271.jpg

http://pic.qnpic.com:83/r.jsp?fn=//fanjoin/share/2011/4/29/IMG_7273.jpg

http://pic.qnpic.com:83/r.jsp?fn=//fanjoin/share/2011/4/29/IMG_7307.jpg

http://pic.qnpic.com:83/r.jsp?fn=//fanjoin/share/2011/4/29/IMG_7310.jpg

http://pic.qnpic.com:83/r.jsp?fn=//fanjoin/share/2011/4/29/IMG_7312.jpg

http://pic.qnpic.com:83/r.jsp?fn=//fanjoin/share/2011/4/29/IMG_7351.jpg

Wow, that elevated expressway would make for a fantastic road video!

Is the Chinese Govt working on improving Chinese Driving Habits and licenses?

Is the Chinese Govt working on improving Chinese Driving Habits and licenses?


Yeah I've seen videos of the driving done in China they may have really impressive roads, but no way would I dare driving in that country. People cross the center line at will, completely ignoring traffic light, etc

It takes time. Every country suffered from extreme fatalities when mass-motorization began. In the late 1960's, over 3 200 people were killed annually in the Netherlands at maybe 40 billion person-kms. Nowadays, 640 people are killed annually at 200 billion person-kms.

640 deaths per year? That's impossible, that's almost 2 dead every day. Am I missing something?

Is the Chinese Govt working on improving Chinese Driving Habits and licenses?
Yeah I've seen videos of the driving done in China they may have really impressive roads, but no way would I dare driving in that country. People cross the center line at will, completely ignoring traffic light, etc
It's hard to say what, if anything they are doing in that regard. The problem itself is multi-faceted on several fronts. The biggest two problems are "Driving Schools" that simply offer the following test: If you can drive a single lap around an empty parking lot, you have past your driver's test. "Congratulations, here is your license." Then they are turned loose on the road. There has been some effort here to crack down on outfits that pull this sort of s**t, though I don't know what the success rate in terms of shutting them down, as well as criminal prosecutions are.

This results in the second problem. The road is flooded with inexperienced drivers who, in many cases, make their own "rules" as they go. Many, if not most, drive as if they were still riding bikes. The problem is worsened when they get behind the wheel of commercial vehicles. Again, there was a crackdown (I remember a vid somewhere in this thread after a bridge collapse due to an overloaded truck and the truck inspectors getting caught NOT doing their job at all) on truck drivers.

China has come a long way in the last decade or so, but they still have a long way to go before they are on par with Europe, or N. America. Corruption as well as the "One Party" Government are the biggest issues, but that's beyond the scope of this thread.

640 deaths per year? That's impossible, that's almost 2 dead every day. Am I missing something?
It's probably much higher than that. The Chinese Govt. doesn't like giving out those kind of stats. As a result, we will never know the true numbers of injuries, as well as fatalities on Chinese roads.

It's probably much higher than that. The Chinese Govt. doesn't like giving out those kind of stats. As a result, we will never know the true numbers of injuries, as well as fatalities on Chinese roads.
Number 640 is per Netherland roads.
This is for Chinese roads, close to 90.000 deaths:
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90776/90882/6378731.html