Who are they? Architectural fans, or people who actually use the building? The former certainly seem to get far more concern than the latter (speaking as a former actual user of the bus station).

Can't you be both? I was before I left Preston.

As was I (before I too moved away).

So am I actually (why else would I be on this forum?) but because my opinion is "I don't like the Bus Station as a building" my opinion is generally rejected by the pro-architecture brigade. In particular, if any argument against the Bus Station is based on it's functionality from my experience using the facility, it is either dismissed or just ignored - one poster is particularly bad for this.

Jonathan Glancey once described Preston bus station as a 'baroque cathedral for buses' in the Guardian. I find it magnificent and uplifting in a town where the built environment is often rather drab: it is by far the best 20th century building in Preston.

I use the buses and the bus station regularly. It is neither dark nor claustrophobic (as has been claimed) and whilst it is certainly scruffy and unloved, a little maintenance and investment would put this right. Pedestrian walkways have been constructed across the apron so the underpasses need no longer be negotiated.

It is a pity that the local political community seem determined to have this modernist masterpiece demolished.

Jonathan Glancey once described Preston bus station as a 'baroque cathedral for buses' in the Guardian.

Yet, the bit for buses is just the glass bit at the bottom, should it not really be a baroque cathedral to cars and car owners? (If you are going to be stupid enough to use "baroque" in the same sentence as "Preston Bus Station")

I find it magnificent and uplifting in a town where the built environment is often rather drab: it is by far the best 20th century building in Preston.

If find the Harris magnificent and uplifting, but hey, whatever floats your boat. :nuts:

I use the buses and the bus station regularly. It is neither dark nor claustrophobic (as has been claimed)

You should try using the car park. it's not nearly as good as Tark makes out.

whilst it is certainly scruffy and unloved, a little maintenance and investment would put this right. Pedestrian walkways have been constructed across the apron so the underpasses need no longer be negotiated.

It's not nearly scruffy and unloved as some make out, there are far worse places in the country. Doesn't stop it being cold, dated and uninviting inside though.....

It is a pity that the local political community seem determined to have this modernist masterpiece demolished.

Yes, imagine. Wanting to create something that attracts people to Preston and bring some new employment to the area. The evil bastards. (Now cue some "retail jobs are not real jobs" are other total nonsense of people who love to berate the employed) Still, BAE Systems have done their bit for the "Keep Preston On Benefits" crew!

Well... that's Tithebarn done then.

Well... that's Tithebarn done then.

It certainly looks like it. I did suspect on a recent visit to the John Lewis website where there was no mention of the Preston store, but it was clearly public knowledge before today.

Reading the LEP comments which are mostly predicatable. I think the biggest laugh I have just had is Riversider's pathetic attempt to compare Preston with York! I think many York folk would find that very offensive! But most are the usual "eee, never wanted them posh shop 'ere" that just make me glad I've moved away!

Best comment on the LEP?

When Doktorb, River and Co have finished dancing on the grave and saying 'I told you so', I wonder what they're going to have left to come out with - heaven forbid they'd have anything constructive and viable

The answer to that is obvious! :lol:

Still, you will keep your precious bus station!! :lol:

Oh, and I can't see "economic issues" being the real reason for JL withdrawing. They are investing huge amounts in Waitrose (even near Preston) and still have a couple of large retail stores planned along with smaller formats. The JL in Reading has recently started a £2m refit. The attempts to blame BAE are pretty laughable too (though JL don't seem to be the one trying to make that float)

I got told off for taking photos of the Bus Station from the forecourt the other day. To be fair, it's pretty shit. Just reminds me of the Tricorn.

The Harris was cool though, Preston was less shit than I anticipated.

I got told off for taking photos of the Bus Station from the forecourt the other day. To be fair, it's pretty shit. Just reminds me of the Tricorn.

I think your opinion represents a silent majority of those from outside Preston. Many of those living outside of Preston championing the bus station are expats, whose positive view of the building contains the same motive as the locals - sentimentality.

Is Tithebarn totally dead then?

What next for Preston?

What next for Preston?

Mediocrity.

Is Tithebarn totally dead then?

What next for Preston?

Stick what's left of the budget on the Euromillions?

Another project cancelled!... (http://www.lep.co.uk/news/lep-business/tram_dream_blow_1_3947193)
Trampower are saying that they still want to go ahead with the full project, but the demonstrator line won't be going ahead. I'm not sure this is going to be feasible without any grant funding.

Is this where things start falling like dominos?

Is Tithebarn totally dead then?

What next for Preston?

Dead and buried. Hilarious seeing all those adamantly against Tithebarn expressing their "dismay" in a calculated display of hypocrisy.

What's next for Preston? Well, there may still be a big supermarket at Queen's Retail Park.

But no right minded developer would look twice now.

Some time in the future, I may bring my daughter back to see her birth town. Say it is 10 years time, I can be certain that:

There'll be no tram
M&S will be in the same store on Fishergate
The outdoor market will be rustier and still be selling cheap Chinese tat
The bus station will be half utilised
The bus station car park will be half empty, even on a busy Saturday
Er...
that's it...


Just remember, the above list is what a certain number of people WANT!! :lol:

Well, there we go. Nearly a month and no further posts. I think that sums up the "interest" in Preston! Sad, it had potential...now, no more...

Aye sad times indeed for development in Preston.

I was wondering if anyone had any pictures of the tower blocks on Moor Lane before they were pulled down or could say where they stood?

I could say where they stood, here (if the Google link works) http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=preston&ll=53.765666,-2.703822&spn=0.001532,0.004801&hnear=Preston,+Lancashire,+United+Kingdom&gl=uk&t=h&z=18&vpsrc=6

I have some photos of them being demolished somewhere. Pre-digital days!!

IBEH, there is a gallery of the demolition and redevelopment here:

http://www.prestonlancs.com/gallery/index.php?action=showgal&cat=1

Thanks Accura.

I could say where they stood, here (if the Google link works) http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=preston&ll=53.765666,-2.703822&spn=0.001532,0.004801&hnear=Preston,+Lancashire,+United+Kingdom&gl=uk&t=h&z=18&vpsrc=6

I have some photos of them being demolished somewhere. Pre-digital days!!

I've not really been round this part of Preston since these new student flats were developed. I think they look good - the fact that they are built straight onto the street adds to a feeling of density - something that there should be in the city centre.

I like how there seems to be just one terraced house remaining between the two different sets of blocks (4 Moor Lane). Does anyone know why this is still there when everything else seems to have been replaced?

Moor Lane is a much better place than it was 10 years ago, despite architecturally criminal additions such as Kopa Hall. There are now only fragments of what was once a very substantial council estate. UCLAN has developed a trend in recent years of buying up private (non-student) blocks of flats, so its possible in the future that they may do the same with the ones on the western side of Moor Lane.

Never noticed the lone terraced house! And we're still waiting for them to do something with that damned windmill!

Moor Lane is a much better place than it was 10 years ago, despite architecturally criminal additions such as Kopa Hall. There are now only fragments of what was once a very substantial council estate. UCLAN has developed a trend in recent years of buying up private (non-student) blocks of flats, so its possible in the future that they may do the same with the ones on the western side of Moor Lane.

Never noticed the lone terraced house! And we're still waiting for them to do something with that damned windmill!

It's interesting that while we have all been waiting for Tithebarn to happen over the last 10 years, the University has slowly developed a huge part of the city centre. There's not been anything particularly spectacular but I think it has definately improved that part of town and given it more of a city feel.

^Most definitely. While the university is far from perfect, it has turned a former slum into an area full of new life and activity.

At my age, (47) I just about remember the "slum clearances" on the west side of Moor Lane up to Plungy. For donkeys years, the old street patterns remained with smashed brick berms deliniating the former street patterns. It was pathetic really. The pace of redevelopment in Preston is still pretty much the same, and Top quality is something still very much lacking in the 'city'. The Moor Lane halls are, at best, average as architectural works I think, but they do have a little something that reminds me of inner suburban towns and cities in the Netherlands'; so they're certainly not all bad.
Anyone else been to the new Brockhole birdy Visitor Centre yet, and wants to record their opinions of it?

Anyway, moving along, let's have a bit of seasonal fun. The austerity measures are only going to get worse, one imagines, and the years of lack of vision and imagination in Preston hardly inspire hope for the future. But if banged in or started within the next 12 months, what 10 things would you like to see going on in and around Preston? I'll start, and in no particular order and I'm not excluding the completely fanciful or unaffordable, (mostly from ideas lots of folk have put forward in the last few years, but a few of my own too) - join in if you wish...

5 for Transport first:

HST2 from Scotland to London, with the vital Lancashire station at Preston around Red Scar.
The tram from Red Scar to Preston Station (through 'The Miley) with extensions to the docks, Bamber Bridge (via the old Lancs & Yorks line) and up Garstang Road. HST2 would allow capacity on existing lines for new or rebuilt stations on the current main and branch lines at places like Cottam, Barton, Galgate, Lancaster University.
An M6 junction just south of Garstang, obviating the need for the Broughton by-pass and lots of the arguments about what's right for the Whittingham Hospital buildings and issues connected with them.
Hydro-electric power produced by river management downstream of the 'Bullnose' of the docks on the Ribble. This would allow integrated public transport on Ribble on river-buses between the Capitol Centre and the docks, and much else besides.
A hovercraft service for passenges and some light freight linking Deeside / Liverpool / Southport / a possible branch route to the River Ribble management faciltiy just downstream of Preston docks / Lytham, Blackpool, Fleetwood-Heysham / Morecambe / Grange-over-Sands / Barrow. Such a route would do wonders for intra-regional tourism; think Merseyside's daily access to the Lake District and vice/versa - and points in between.
And 5 for Preston itself:

Pedestrianisaton of Fishergate from the Railway Station to The Minster: thus liberating tons of unneeded metal signage, railings, traffic lights etc cluttering up the pavements of our main shopping street. The public transport items mentioned above make this much more feasable. Then cover Fishergate with a glazed canopy allowing 24hr access, but to keep the rain off pedestrians.
A really high quality landmark tall building at least 30 stories high. Choice of two locations: to replace Cubic (Crystal House) or at the top of Brockholes Brow on the Deafway site.
A moderated Tithebarn scheme, keeping the Bus Station (and it's overhead car park) but with bus stands to the east side only, using the western aprons and site of St Johns Precinct to link through to the renewed Victorian Market halls (as per the BDP scheme)
Pope Benedict to declare St Walburge's a Catholic Cathedral.
North Korea to explode a nuclear bomb under the centre circle of Old Trafford and so Man U have to (somehow) play all their games at Deepdale and pay PNE rent of £5m a match to do so.
As you can see, as I've got to the end of my glass of wine I've actually only had 8 rational ideas before hope took over!

But it's been the case for at least 150 years that Preston's greatest advantage has been its geography on a national scale, and greatest hindrance is is its geography on a local scale. It's been the town's misfortune to have been represented by intellectual minnows for most of those 150 years, our current MP being no exception.

Over to you.

Nice idea Tark. Some boards have their predictions. Lets have our fantasy! Also in no particular order.

1) The complete redevelopment of New Hall Lane. Might be unpopular with some members *cough* but I would demolish the entire road, bar the odd building. I would then rebuilt it with a variety of apartment buildings, 3/4 stories in height, with decent public/private spaces behind them.

2) Develop Tithebarn 2, keeping the bus station but adding more of Church Street into the project

3) Creating of the central park area around the Ribble at Avenham/Miller Park. Townhouses and low rise apartments built on the South Ribble side. Think South Amsterdam style.

4) Tram link on the old Longridge line, from Redscar to the train station.

5) Redevelopment of Deepdale Retail Park. Develop it into its own district instead of a soulless shopping park. Mixture of public spaces, apartments, houses, leisure. Think Deepdale High Street opposed to Deepdale Retail Park

6) Unitary authority of Preston, South Ribble and Chorley. Bye Bye LCC.

7) Resiting or buring the Ringroad. Also have a competition to rename it :P

8) Create a new civic building/Library on Cheapside, getting rid of all the awful shite along there.

9)Redevelopment of the Docks into a leisure hub. Clean it out and have watersports on there. Also build and arena :P

10) Sink Blackpool into the sea. Nick Blackpool Tower, rebuild alittle bit taller at the west docks, paint it blue and call it Preston Tower.

That is all

What the hell... lets go wild:

1. Tram link from Redscar down the old Longridge line, to Preston station, and then down the old East Lancashire line to a Park and Ride at the Sainsbury's roundabout at Bamber Bridge.

2. Downgrade the Ringway from a dual carriageway to a wide road, but with enhanced pavements. Demolish the following buildings/sites:
- Staples
- Greyfriars/Job Centre
- Lowthian House
- Blockbusters/Aldi/Instore retail park
- Network Rail site
Create a new CBD in this area, anchored by an office tower in excess of 20-storeys, with a new square in front of County Hall built over the railway lines.

3. New bus station adjacent to the train station.

4. Creative leisure based masterplan for the docks.

5. Pedestrianise Fishergate (liking the canopy idea!)

5. Massive refurbishment of Preston station.

6. Extend the M65 around Penwortham and across the Ribble to the M55 (as was originally planned)

I'm liking a lot of the ideas proposed so far, especially with regards to the High Speed Rail, tram and local rail plans, which aren't really so far fetched are they?

I would add:

1. Demolition of DFS, Halfords, Pets at Home etc on the docks and replacement with high quality offices and apartment blocks, with at least two or three going above 20 floors. Increased leisure facilities (restaurants, bars, watersports) to be created alongside these. This would be just a 5 minute tram ride from town.

2. Creation of the CBD in the area outlined by Accura, again with at least one landmark building of height, visible from the West Coast mainline.

3. Use the pedestrianisation of the west side of the bus station to create a new tree lined pedestrian boulavard. Use some of the space to build a cinema, with apartments above.

4. Demolition of the St John's centre and replacement with open streets with space for small independent retailers and small offices.

5. Turn the former bus aprons into shops, bars and cafes. Light up the bus station at night to make this a feature and turn this end of town into an attractive, cultural quarter with restaurants, the cinema and guild hall/charter theatre to attract people in the evenings, not just clubs.

6. PNE to be promoted into the Premiership, leading to the top tier of the Invincibles Pavillion to be built (and filled by fans every week!).

7. Crystal House to be demolished and the flag market to be extended over to Church Street. This would create a great looking square as all of the other buildings facing onto the opened up square are far far far nicer.

LEP: Property Developer must pay £650,000 (http://www.lep.co.uk/news/lep-business/property_developer_must_pay_650_000_1_4097789)

It's good to see the council putting their foot down and ensuring Countryside pay up so that the Brookhouse Group development can go ahead. Hopefully the fact that Countryside have to make the payment anyway might incentivise them to go ahead with at least some of their planned development, or to sell the site to someone else who will do something with it.

7. Crystal House to be demolished and the flag market to be extended over to Church Street. This would create a great looking square as all of the other buildings facing onto the opened up square are far far far nicer.
... which was a major part of my final year Part II architectural thesis at Sheffield Uni in 1987! (I also totally redeveloped the quadrant between St George's Centre and Fishergate / Cheapside / Flag Market / Friargate with shopping and many mixed social and commercial uses - including cinemas!)

Lots of good ideas from Andy, Jason & Accura, many of which we agree on - keep them coming. And come on Riversider, join in; this is democratic local planning in action!

Quick question: is 2012 a guild year?

I remember it being so in 1972 and 1992.

Quick question: is 2012 a guild year?

I remember it being so in 1972 and 1992.

Shit Yeah - obviously all the marketing with the big G's around town isn't working on you, or you're taking the piss? I'm well noted for not dodging the humour bullet on occasion, but you've got me on this one.

LEP: Property Developer must pay £650,000 (http://www.lep.co.uk/news/lep-business/property_developer_must_pay_650_000_1_4097789)

It's good to see the council putting their foot down and ensuring Countryside pay up so that the Brookhouse Group development can go ahead. Hopefully the fact that Countryside have to make the payment anyway might incentivise them to go ahead with at least some of their planned development, or to sell the site to someone else who will do something with it.

Hmmm... I remember a time when it looked like the CP scheme was almost definitely going to go ahead, and Preston was going to get its first highrise in decades. How things change!

What we don't want is another Whittingham Hospital saga, which we have now been waiting 16 years to be properly developed since the developer made a 'technical start'. An abandoned Victorian hospital in beautiful parkland in a rural part of Preston is one thing. Having a vast industrial wasteland on the edge of the city centre that visitors into the city see every day is another.

Hmmm... I remember a time when it looked like the CP scheme was almost definitely going to go ahead, and Preston was going to get its first highrise in decades. How things change!

What we don't want is another Whittingham Hospital saga, which we have now been waiting 16 years to be properly developed since the developer made a 'technical start'. An abandoned Victorian hospital in beautiful parkland in a rural part of Preston is one thing. Having a vast industrial wasteland on the edge of the city centre that visitors into the city see every day is another.

I agree but at the same time we don't just want anything built. Those flats look pretty poor on the LEP website. Would you want to live there? I know I wouldn't - they look like the slums of the future to me!

As an incomer to Preston, though no longer a recent one, what has struck me is how poorly the 'architectural heritage' has been looked after. There still looks to be a lot worth saving and reusing / recycling though, in any redevelopment. Judging from old photos and exhibitions at the Harris over the years there was once much more. The town hall is only the most egregious example.

Most local people I've talked to about it don't 'see' the impact or the importance of buildings like the bus station. Familiarity makes them less novel and unique, I think. I'm glad that some of the proposals for redevelopment imagine keeping, modifying and re-using the bus station. Yes, I do like it; it was the first thing I noticed on my first visit here and it made me smile. I do know it's in the wrong place (for a bus station).

The Harris is a fine building but there are not dissimilar buildings in many places.

Shit Yeah - obviously all the marketing with the big G's around town isn't working on you, or you're taking the piss? I'm well noted for not dodging the humour bullet on occasion, but you've got me on this one.

I haven't visited Preston for over 10 years. I'm not taking the proverbial -honest.

Back in '92 when I worked at LCC, the climax of the '92 Guild was affected by a rainy summer.

The next guild in 2012 seemed so far away, but here we are.

All the best Prestoners!

Back in '92 when I worked at LCC, the climax of the '92 Guild was affected by a rainy summer.

The next guild in 2012 seemed so far away, but here we are.

All the best Prestoners!

Sorry Ash. It did indeed pee it down for most of the last Guild. I'd far rather it was held in May rather than the first week of September. By memory, not stats, the weather seems to be much more clement then.

Noticed this article the other day:

http://www.lep.co.uk/news/environment/plan_back_on_agenda_1_4117885
http://www.lep.co.uk/webimage/1.4117882.1325872549!image/1930072123.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_595/1930072123.jpg

I'm glad that this plan is still on agenda. I believe that now Tithebarn is no longer on the cards, focus can return to developing this end of the city centre, which was happening naturally until Tithebarn tried to counterbalance it (although I don't believe Riversider's theory that Tithebarn caused a development draught). Our city centre is too spread out, with too many lifeless vacuums in between 'anchors'.

And come on Riversider, join in; this is democratic local planning in action!

Yes, but if your proposals include commercial enterprises, then you are just fuelling the nasty capitalist monster. (Labour MPs and Trade Union leaders being dreadfully hard up and underpaid beings of course - cough, splutter!)

I don't know if my opinion will count given I no longer live locally, but:


Dump the tram idea. Even using disused rail lines, it'll still be hugely expensive and disruptive
Definitely pedestrianise Fishergate as far as is possible and that means NO traffic, including buses. I don't know what you'll do for the latter, array bus stops along Ringway or have a bus station hub at the rail station, don't know.
If you really must keep the bus station, then it needs total gutting. Make the inside airier and more inviting. Better quality flooring and lighting. Better cafes and shop provision. Get rid of the need for subways (see next point). Totally refurbish the car park, better floor sufacing with coloured parking bays and improved lighting. Completely remove the existing lift and stairwell and cut in new with wider, better lit stairs and lifts that service EVERY floor. Make pay on exit!
Demolish the St John Centre and make a landmark square between the market and bus station.
Refurbish the outdoor market hall, and do something to improve the indoor one.


I'm done for now!

Dump the tram idea. Even using disused rail lines, it'll still be hugely expensive and disruptive
Definitely pedestrianise Fishergate as far as is possible and that means NO traffic, including buses. I don't know what you'll do for the latter, array bus stops along Ringway or have a bus station hub at the rail station, don't know.
If you really must keep the bus station, then it needs total gutting. Make the inside airier and more inviting. Better quality flooring and lighting. Better cafes and shop provision. Get rid of the need for subways (see next point). Totally refurbish the car park, better floor sufacing with coloured parking bays and improved lighting. Completely remove the existing lift and stairwell and cut in new with wider, better lit stairs and lifts that service EVERY floor. Make pay on exit!
Demolish the St John Centre and make a landmark square between the market and bus station.
Refurbish the outdoor market hall, and do something to improve the indoor one.



I absolutely love all of these ideas -

As a heads up for those that weren't able to attend the council's recent Your City, Your Say events, they are still welcoming ideas through their website.

Here are details of the event (http://www.preston.gov.uk/thecouncil/consultations/city-say-listening-event/), LEP coverage of the event (http://www.lep.co.uk/news/keep_our_bus_station_where_it_is_1_4131641) and again (http://www.lep.co.uk/news/lep-business/let_s_talk_about_the_future_1_4118421), and also a direct link to the online survey (http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/yourcity).

New St in Birmingham is pedestrianised and is DEAD at night once the shops have shut. The only way pedestrianising Fishergate would be viable in Preston is if there are more bars, restaurants, coffee shops, a cinema etc dotted along and at either end to keep people there once the shops close. But I suspect the people of Preston would complain this would result in more crime...

If you really must keep the bus station, then it needs total gutting. Make the inside airier and more inviting. Better quality flooring and lighting. Better cafes and shop provision. Get rid of the need for subways (see next point). Totally refurbish the car park, better floor sufacing with coloured parking bays and improved lighting. Completely remove the existing lift and stairwell and cut in new with wider, better lit stairs and lifts that service EVERY floor. Make pay on exit!
Demolish the St John Centre and make a landmark square between the market and bus station.
Refurbish the outdoor market hall, and do something to improve the indoor one.


Good, JonH, we agree on some things, then!

Worst. Idea. Ever.

http://www.lep.co.uk/news/city_chief_admits_bus_station_axe_is_option_1_4262119

I didnt realise that Preston has turned into Detroit, demolishing buildings to save the council money. Replace it with a car park. Nothing says "Welcome to a total shithole" than a 700 space SURFACE carpark! Demolishing the bus station to make way for Tithebarn was acceptable, as it was being replaced. Demolishing it to replace it with nothing and no future plans is retarded!

Also Mothballing the Guild Hall? Now there is an idea, lets get rid of the only venue that can attract people into the city centre after hours that doesnt involve getting shit faced...

Maybe. But the uncharitable side of me wants to think "Ha, got what you deserved!!" Which isn't very nice I know, but the vehement anti-Tithebarn brigade do deserve a slap in the face of some sort.

There have been a couple of noteworthy stories over the last few weeks:

Plans submitted for 1,100 new houses in Cottam (http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/northwest/news/289709-hca-submits-outline-planning-for-cottam-hall-site.html?)

It would be good if the development at Cottom could be made to fund a new train station on the Blackpool to Preston line.

Enterprise zones to be set up at BAE's sites and Warton and Samlesbury (http://www.lep.co.uk/news/lep-business/public-meeting-call-for-enterprise-zone-plans-1-4311459)

This could be brilliant news for the area. I belive that there were proposals to build a retail park at one point - thank God that never went ahead! A centre for high-tech manufacturing jobs is exactly the sort of thing that Preston needs.

I was in Preston on Friday for the first time in a couple of years, although it was a rather brief visit and mainly spent in the bus station. I have never been a fan of the bus station, but as I was sat on my bus waiting for it to depart, I looked up at it and could only be impressed by the way it looked in the sun. Since the Tithebarn will not happen in its former guises, I can only think that a substantial refurbishment of the station and its surrounding area would be most beneficial for the town, along with some sort of link between the train station and bus station. I think with a good modern refurbishment would radically benefit the city, without the need of what was a generic, rather soulless masterplan.

There have been a couple of noteworthy stories over the last few weeks:

Plans submitted for 1,100 new houses in Cottam (http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/northwest/news/289709-hca-submits-outline-planning-for-cottam-hall-site.html?)

It would be good if the development at Cottom could be made to fund a new train station on the Blackpool to Preston line.

Enterprise zones to be set up at BAE's sites and Warton and Samlesbury (http://www.lep.co.uk/news/lep-business/public-meeting-call-for-enterprise-zone-plans-1-4311459)

This could be brilliant news for the area. I belive that there were proposals to build a retail park at one point - thank God that never went ahead! A centre for high-tech manufacturing jobs is exactly the sort of thing that Preston needs.

Thanks for keeping the news flow going! Its rather quiet in this thread these days. Great news about the Enterprise zones. Both BAE sites have already attracted a number of 'parasite' manufacturers, and this can only take that further.

I was in Preston on Friday for the first time in a couple of years, although it was a rather brief visit and mainly spent in the bus station. I have never been a fan of the bus station, but as I was sat on my bus waiting for it to depart, I looked up at it and could only be impressed by the way it looked in the sun. Since the Tithebarn will not happen in its former guises, I can only think that a substantial refurbishment of the station and its surrounding area would be most beneficial for the town, along with some sort of link between the train station and bus station. I think with a good modern refurbishment would radically benefit the city, without the need of what was a generic, rather soulless masterplan.

I too would like to see the Bus Station get some kind of grand refurbishment, but any masterplan, but it will only work if the surrounding buildings are dealt with. St John's, Preston Office Centre, the former Tradex/Sainsbury's building, and to some extent the Guild Hall complex completely destroy that area.

Another snippet of news about the CBD:

http://www.lep.co.uk/news/lep-business/office-quarter-deal-a-month-away-1-4311837

Sounds quite promising. I'm glad to see they are adopting more of a 'baby steps' approach to the masterplan rather than the all in one approach taken with Tithebarn.

I personally am finding this 'rainbow' thing eminating from the docks little more than a 'flatshine'. Nevertheless, wandering through the city centre at 7pm and again at 8.30pm last night, I did see quite a number of people taking photos of it - maybe some of them had even make a special trip to Preston to see it? That can only be a good thing. I'm still much more of a fan of the clearstory lights in the Harris.
Let's hope that other Guild functions this year cheer the town up a bit after lots of bad news in the last 2 - 3 years.

Sandown Court to get a reclad:

http://www.lep.co.uk/news/energy-giant-warned-not-to-ruin-landmarks-1-4376836

Tark, didn't your father design these buildings?

It is rather worrying that a city should be cherishing these buildings in terms of their aesthetic.

It is rather worrying that a city should be cherishing these buildings in terms of their aesthetic.

Yes Accura, he did.

And in their current condition, I can find empathy with Ferge's reply.

I must declare a personal interest in their future for a number of personal reasons, not least that I live in one of the blocks. In the interest of making up your own minds, below is the letter I sent to the planners, though due to a failure of communicatrion from the Sandown Management Company to it's residents, it reached the planners' desks after the official final submission date for public representations. I am glad that the Planner concerned did allow my representation into his thoughts as he made his report (even though it was late) and that there seems to me to be some acknowledgement of my representations into the descision notice which is viewable on line through the PCC planning portal.
[The two pics I inserted into the letter don't seem to be coming out on this repost]
:


Dear Mr #######,

Sandown Court; Application No 06/2012/0030

Further to our email correspondence of today’s date. I thank you for the opportunity to make a few comments on the above application.

Firstly I would like to note my professional credentials generally and interests in Sandown Court specifically.

I was awarded the Certificate in Professional Practice in Architecture (RIBA Part III) by the University of Sheffield in 1992, and an MSc in Urban Renewal with Distinction from Liverpool John Moores University in 1996.

My father N Keith Scott was the architect of what is today know as Sandown Court and was Building Design Partnership’s Partner in Charge of the project when it first opened as council housing in 1965. It may be a fair criticism therefore that some of my observations below are tempered by an ‘emotional’ attachment to their design.

I purchased No 108 Sandown Court in the summer of 2008. This is a “mid-terrace” 1 bedroom flat in Tower 1 on the 16th and 17th Floors, facing south west. A key factor influencing my decision to purchase this particular flat was that it still retains a full width open balcony on both floors so the apartment benefits from external private open space at high level, with uninterrupted views across south west Lancashire to north Wales, and across the Fylde.

I began a fully comprehensive remodelling of the apartment in my spare time, stripping out everything to the bare concrete. The only original features to remain were the upvc double glazed window and door units to the two balconies, as these were less than 10 years old and in good condition. The walls and ceilings have been dry lined to reduce noise transmission across the party walls, and a new radiator central heating system installed using a very efficient electric combi boiler. I have spent over £30,000 on the project (knowing full well that this investment could never be returned commercially should I ever decide to sell the apartment) and moved in to it in November 2011.

I would also like to note that I am broadly supportive of the Planning Application. Sandown Court is now 47 years old and notwithstanding a major refurbishment when it transferred from Public Sector to Private Sector housing c1981 is a diminishing asset which is showing its age. The residents are generally not particularly wealthy and the Management Company alone cannot afford the investment which is required to greatly enhance their condition. The particular financing arrangements associated with this Application offer a unique opportunity to enhance both the appearance of the Towers and greatly reduce the energy used by residents which will be a great saving in household expenditures, at a cost that most can afford. It is for these reasons that I voted in favour of the proposals at the Shareholder meeting in January.

There are a number of issues in the proposals however that cause me great concern, largely within the realm of planning and heritage and bringing them to your attention for consideration is the genesis of this correspondence.

Urban Design and Design Heritage

· The Sandown Court towers are the tallest inhabitable structures in Preston and probably also the tallest for at least 20 miles around the city centre. Their impact upon the skyline of the city when viewed from distance is very substantial, perhaps matched only in prominence by St Walburge’s spire and the Deepdale Football Ground’s floodlight towers.





The recladding of the Sandown Court towers is likely to be the most substantial alteration to the city’s skyline over the next 10 years, and quite possibly until the next Preston Guild. I feel it therefore incumbent upon the city planners to deliver from the Applicants a scheme of the highest possible design quality, leaving a legacy which positively enhances both the prospect of the city viewed from distance and through careful detailing improves the feel of the urban fabric when experienced at the city’s heart.

It is with some dismay that I have discovered that Applicant’s have not engaged the services of a Chartered Architect (let alone one of national note) for an Application of such prominence and importance to the future of the appearance of Preston. I personally feel this situation is reflected in the quality of the submission at all design levels, and which has contained a number of important inaccuracies.

· The design heritage aspects of Sandown Court itself can to many observers be matters of personal taste or interest, but I strongly believe they should be given consideration by the City Council’s Planning Department in informing its decision upon the Application. I refer firstly to the policy reprinted in the Applicant’s Heritage Statement:

POLICY HE7: POLICY PRINCIPLES GUIDING THE DETERMINATION Of
APPLICATIONS FOR CONSENT RELATING TO ALL HERITAGE ASSETS
HE7.2 In considering the impact of a proposal on any heritage asset, local planning
authorities should take into account the particular nature of the significance of the heritage asset and the value that it holds for this and future generations. [my highlighting]

The Planning Department is no doubt aware of the contribution made to the cultural history of Preston of by BDP. Founded in 1946 as Grenfell Baines & Hargreaves and changing its name in 1961, my father Keith Scott joined the firm in 1955 having gained his MA in Architecture from MIT in Massachusetts and was invited into the Partnership in 1964. He was Chairman of the practice for five years in the late 1980’s and awarded a CBE for Services to Architecture in 1989, having picked up 33 design awards from his peers during his long and very productive career.

It has always been a matter of some regret for him that he was only lightly commissioned for schemes in the town where he was born, lived and worked. Archbishop Temple High School, the Carey Baptist Christian Centre and Sandown Court are the only significant buildings remaining in the city to which he laid his guiding architect’s hand. Keith Scott is arguably the most significant architect Preston has ever produced, and a number of features of the design of these twin towers are of particular and unique note as the Planning Committee reaches its verdict with Heritage in mind.

Several public housing schemes of the period received much more international architectural attention than Kendal and Penrith House (Sandown Court’s initial monikers), such as Park Hill in Sheffield and Byker Wall in Newcastle, yet I believe the two towers as they still stand also represent a high point in Britain’s architectural history of the post war period. Preston was very proud of them upon completion as evidenced by the special 4 page special feature printed in the Evening Post on Monday, June 28, 1965. Several features of the original design are worthy of note, particularly as they came from a period of much currently unloved architecture (and, I opine, rightfully so), yet such buildings remain landmarks in the nation’s attempts to solve a housing crisis which had its origins long before World War II, especially in a Lancashire Mill town whose population increased manyfold during the Industrial Revolution. These include:

- Use of an interlocking doubled square plan to provide studio, 2 bed and 3 bed flats on each of the lower 16 floors of the towers, thus generating a natural social mix of people and age groups re-housed from the slums that were demolished to create the site. [unaffected by the Application]
- Mirroring of the plans of the twin towers, so that they were not ‘identical’, yet could utilise identical prefabricated elements to reduce construction costs. [unaffected by the Application]
- Use of mezzanine apartments with balconies on the top 2 floors with reduced floor plan areas, to create a ‘capital’ to the elevations of the towers and enhance their modelling. To my knowledge, this remains a unique feature in system built public housing in the UK. The photograph below taken in 1965 shows the intent of this design;





You will note from these historical pictures (or a current site inspection) that they show use not of “two-tone gray precast concrete panels” [sic – from the Applicant’s Design & Access statement], but of a carefully considered use of three tone colouring of the panels using natural aggregates, whereby the mid-tone grey accentuates the visual modelling of paired window elements. These elements of the existing condition are not honestly represented in the Applicant’s drawings. I am also of the opinion that such elements raise the structures from the level of ‘building’ to ‘architecture’, and in conjunction with my notes beforehand should be considered by the Planning Department.

Given that with today’s technology the new over-cladding panels can be of any colour, I must urge the Planning Department to insist on use of the replication as far as possible of the original three colours where originally designed in the recladding panels of the towers. Such an approach would be sympathetic to the original notable architect’s design and be of value to architectural historians into the future, both locally and internationally. The massing of the towers will have to (one way or another) increase by a small percentage (which in either case will require detailing resolution on the re-entrant angles of both towers) but these are small problems which can be resolved if a notable architect was in the employ of the Applicant.

· The open balconies on the 16th and 17th Floors are elements which I and my neighbour (Mr David Greenhalgh, No 107) are both very keen to retain. We both see them as assets to our accommodations which we do not want to have stolen from us. We have been told by the Applicant and Management Company that they will have to be enclosed, and that extending party walls between our properties across the newly enclosed former balconies will be the householders’ responsibility. It seems to us very unfair to lose an amenity which we do not choose to lose. The Applicant’s drawings do appear to show that the balconies to Flats 107 & 108 will not be enclosed, but it is impossible to tell for certain from the level of information given.

I have lived and worked within what is now the Avenham Conservation Area all my life (I’m 48) and wholeheartedly disagree with the following submission from the Applicant’s application :

Conclusion
National planning policy requires that development does not detract from the
quality of the historic environment. This is not subject to any designations of
historic or archeological importance. It can be said that the existing tower blocks are out dated and the aesthetic appearance is also dated and shabby [and of] no contribution to the architectural and historic interest of the area. Therefore embracing the refurbishment using natural colours and creating a more environmentally friendly building will benefit the two tower blocks appearance and reinforce its full residential usage originally intended and approved by the councils planning department.
This design concept will serve only to improve the outlook of all residents [sic]

I would hope that the fallacy of the above remark in any planning application is noted by the Planning Department; for example, cloaking I.M.Pei’s wonderfully ingenious glass pyramid solution to a new entrance to the Louvre with faux stone would have been a design disaster, rather than the genius all have found it to be. The only stone building of real note in the Avenham Conservation Area is the former Harris Institute, where my parents met each other, incidentally. Making a planning decision on the future of two architecturally unique mid1960’s blocks of flats depending solely upon which artificially coloured finish they are, is in my opinion, frankly pointless.

I do hope you have time to reflect upon the above before finalising your report, and once again, thank you for reading this late submission.

Tarquin Scott
Tarkitecture
14 Ribblesdale Place
Preston
PR1 3NA

Interesting read Tark. I do hope the reclad is considerate for such a prominent landmark.

A bit of construction news (for a change!)... there is quite a bit going on around the university:

- The previously stalled student block on the former car wash site down Walker Street has resumed construction and steelwork is progressing well.

- Plant and portacabins have appeared on the vacant site of a previously planned student block down Corporation Street (formerly occupied by an abandoned warehouse). Maybe back on the cards?

- The new extension to the dental school has begun on the Harrington car park

- Foster Building is being extended with a new lecture theatre and medical centre.

New promo video from Preston Vision to try and attract private sector investment on this link, particularly for the CBD project:
http://www.lep.co.uk/news/business/preston-the-post-tithebarn-dream-video-1-4485440

Not bad!

Bet the reclad will either be brick or minging plastic *sigh*

New promo video from Preston Vision to try and attract private sector investment on this link, particularly for the CBD project:
http://www.lep.co.uk/news/business/preston-the-post-tithebarn-dream-video-1-4485440

Not bad!

I assume most of the content of that video was in the voice over, could only watch on silent at work.

Usual plethora of depressing cack in the comments from the usual Luddites.

Hi everyone, newbie here but looking to contribute as much as I can, also studying Planning and Urban Design at University so these threads are a lot of interest!

Anyway a couple of bits from the LEP I noticed today regarding the Markets and the Bus Station issue coming up again, as well as the pedestrianisation of Fishergate:

Markets story: http://www.lep.co.uk/news/business/2m-revamp-for-market-1-4524834

Bus Station and Fishergate story: http://www.lep.co.uk/news/business/is-time-running-out-for-bus-station-1-4524830

The market idea sounds a sensible one from my perspective. Not so sure about pedestrianising Fishergate, I know its been mentioned upthread but it seems to have worked in Sheffield to an extent.

The market plans look good. Hopefully drag people out of the indoor market to a newly refurnished outdoor one, then we can tear down that an indoor market and replace it with something much nicer. Fingers crossed they do actually do this and it's not just a "maybe". This could be the first step in a phased regeneration, much like Blackpool have been doing.

Welcome to the forums guys. Thanks for the contribution.

Now then... if they can pull it off, I will be very happy with the plans for the revamped market. The worst element of the markets is by far and away the indoor market. Putting it on the market should attract a fair bit of attention too, especially if they get rid of the car park too!

Welcome to the forums guys. Thanks for the contribution.

Now then... if they can pull it off, I will be very happy with the plans for the revamped market. The worst element of the markets is by far and away the indoor market. Putting it on the market should attract a fair bit of attention too, especially if they get rid of the car park too!

Totally agree. I have spent some time working in the Planning Department next door in Lancastria House recently and I didn't realise how bad the indoor market had got. Getting rid of the car park could provide an excellent frontage onto Ringway for a development however in reality I cannot see it happening, not when PCC want to get rid of the Bus Station which would mean losing the 1100 spaces there as well.

I don't think that the car park is really a problem with the market. Its in the perfect place for a multi-storey being on Ringway. Also you wouldn't really front any development onto Ringway, can you imagine having lunch on it. No thanks! You could solve the car park by cladding the outside, refurbish the inside and generally making it look nicer.

The Indoor Market however is a dump of a building and interacts terribly with the outdoor market. Personally I would do what they proposed as part of Tithebarn. Enclose the outdoor market and move the indoor market into it. Then put the outdoor market onto the streets around it (or at the risk of sounding like a snob just get rid of most of it as lets face it, what is on there is total tat!). Then demolish the indoor market and build something else there. Surely from a commercial point of view it would be attractive having a multi-storey next to it?

With Sandown Court are there any pictures of it yet? Also what are they cladding it in?

Both valid points. Thinking about it, it probably is the best placed multistorey in town, being right next to the Ringway. A reclad and a refurbishment is well in order though (it's dreadful inside).

Both valid points. Thinking about it, it probably is the best placed multistorey in town, being right next to the Ringway. A reclad and a refurbishment is well in order though (it's dreadful inside).

The company Q-Park, who own a few multistoreys in Sheffield, are quite good at creating attractive car parks. Perhaps something like the car park below needs to be done to it? Which has become an icon in the city centre and gives some individuality to the place. Some people love it, others hate it!

http://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/01/85/61/1856122_7aeb4bea.jpg

(Very) long time lurker, first time poster.

I tend to go on auto-rants about Preston so will try and keep that to a minimum while I get used to this forum :)

Maybe. But the uncharitable side of me wants to think "Ha, got what you deserved!!" Which isn't very nice I know, but the vehement anti-Tithebarn brigade do deserve a slap in the face of some sort.

I am going to introduce myself properly then ;)

I was anti-Tithebarn from start to finish. Every brick, every full stop, each and every line. Complete and absolute anti-Tithebarn. Was, is, ever will be,

Tithebarn was rotten. Its inception was flawed, its outlook was rotten, its long-term consequences were ill defined, its vision was blinkered. I cannot think of a worse thing to do to Preston than turning the place into Manchester-on-Ribble.

I am passionate about Preston, passionately pro-Bus Station. I am not convinced today as I was not two, five or ten years ago that the solution to Preston's problems was a John Lewis megastore.

Slap in the face? The only slap in the face I can think of would be the destruction of our city just so an unelected, unaccountable Vision Board can have fancy desktop wallpaper.

I am going to introduce myself properly then ;)

I was anti-Tithebarn from start to finish. Every brick, every full stop, each and every line. Complete and absolute anti-Tithebarn. Was, is, ever will be,

Tithebarn was rotten. Its inception was flawed, its outlook was rotten, its long-term consequences were ill defined, its vision was blinkered. I cannot think of a worse thing to do to Preston than turning the place into Manchester-on-Ribble.

I am passionate about Preston, passionately pro-Bus Station. I am not convinced today as I was not two, five or ten years ago that the solution to Preston's problems was a John Lewis megastore.

Slap in the face? The only slap in the face I can think of would be the destruction of our city just so an unelected, unaccountable Vision Board can have fancy desktop wallpaper.

The idea of redevelopment and regeneration itself is a good one, however I was in two minds over Tithebarn. the main issue I had with it was its location. It had the potential of spreading the core city centre over too much of an area, as it would have stretched from the railway station right up to to John Lewis, which is too much for retail to cope with. A classic example is Sheffield, where one end of the city is now in effect dead due to it being spread too far, and now the council are going on the opposite direction to what PCC had in mind, and are consolidating the core retail area of the city centre into one area, however just like Tithebarn this has also not been without its problems.

Something does need to be done with the city centre though, and I think a phased redevelopment is the way forward. As for the Bus Station, I am still sitting on the fence!

I am going to introduce myself properly then ;)

I was anti-Tithebarn from start to finish. Every brick, every full stop, each and every line. Complete and absolute anti-Tithebarn. Was, is, ever will be,

Tithebarn was rotten. Its inception was flawed, its outlook was rotten, its long-term consequences were ill defined, its vision was blinkered. I cannot think of a worse thing to do to Preston than turning the place into Manchester-on-Ribble.

I am passionate about Preston, passionately pro-Bus Station. I am not convinced today as I was not two, five or ten years ago that the solution to Preston's problems was a John Lewis megastore.

Slap in the face? The only slap in the face I can think of would be the destruction of our city just so an unelected, unaccountable Vision Board can have fancy desktop wallpaper.

Can I ask which direction you think Preston should be going in then, or are you happy with the way things are?

Can I ask which direction you think Preston should be going in then, or are you happy with the way things are?

On the whole I'm pretty happy with the way things are.

Let's take a look at some of the issues one by one. The central theme is "Preston Council could not do joined-up thinking if given a thousand years and a million chances."

Queen Street redevelopment - great idea. But is it joined up with any other scheme? Would it be tied in with any proposed redevelopment of Church Street/Fishergate, or would traffic levels on London Road become even worse?

And if there was no joined up thinking on that side, what about the proposed pedestrianisation of Fishergate? Long overdue, I'm sure we all agree, but with the Ring Road and ways into Preston the way they are, how could it be pedestrianised today? How would residents of Avenham get to, say, the Docks? Where would the Park & Ride buses be re-directed?

The Bus Station should stay, end of, no question. Why? Because the loss of 1,100 car parking places says its a daft idea to carry on with it. We know as fact that it would cost more to demolish than re-furbish, and that the Council has £5m which it could spend on making the bus station fit for the 21st Century. Instead, it's being purposely "managed declined" by the wilful blindness of PCC and LCC, who appear still hoodwinked by the promise of John Lewis and Tithebarn

Blackmailing the market traders into glass coffins on the market square - direct quote from Cllr Rankin "We're going to push forward" - is another Post Office disaster waiting to happen. Just be thankful that there's no Totem Poles and LED Flags on the drawing board anymore.

The City Centre, by and large, is fine. We should have a Council investing its time and effort into attracting companies into the numerous empty units across the city. Instead, they're feeding unelected, unaccountable Vision Boards with tax-funded biscuits to come up with yet more clap-trap to recreate some kind of "Manchester-on-Ribble" pipe dream.

Trams running from Deepdale Road to Preston Crem may look good in glossy documents but they don't get shoppers putting money into coffers.

The City Centre, by and large, is fine. We should have a Council investing its time and effort into attracting companies into the numerous empty units across the city.

Hard to know where to start with the first sentence - save to say that Preston City Centre is as grotty as any I know of for its size in Western Europe - so I won't start. If you think it's fine mate, god help you.

I would not want to see PCC spending more than minimal resources on trying to get the numerous empty units let at present as it would be trowing good money after bad.
Firstly, the general economic downturn and change in consumer habits away from direct retail towards growing internet purchases are already creating and will lead to further major changes in the way our city centres operate and the uses to which they are put. A major rethink of the city centre concept and offer (everywhere, not just Preston) is needed - and I don't claim to know what the answer is yet.
Secondly, the existing empty units in the city centre suffer from generally being too small, badly configured with very poor servicing and few amenities. This makes them expensive to run and therefore not attractive to potential tenants - hence the "good money after bad" comment. These were issues which the Tithebarn was attempting to address and only major redevelopment, albeit broken down into much smaller and more manageable parcels, can create a future credible retail offer.

Pedestrianisation of Fishergate is vital - we are the only place I know of of this size without a pedestrianised high street - but the local geography does make it very difficult as the river and parks make access from the south very limited. Improving speedy access to the city centre from all directions by trams is the best way get more shoppers in to town and revive the vitality of the city centre.

Secondly, the existing empty units in the city centre suffer from generally being too small, badly configured with very poor servicing and few amenities. This makes them expensive to run and therefore not attractive to potential tenants - hence the "good money after bad" comment.

100% agree with this point. I spent 3 years working in the old Next on Fishergate and this was the definition of badly configured and cramped, so when we moved over the road it was heaven. The fact St Georges want to knock the old Next unit and the old Dorothy Perkins unit together further confirms this point, as no sensible retailer would take on the old Next unit with its current layout.

Hard to know where to start with the first sentence - save to say that Preston City Centre is as grotty as any I know of for its size in Western Europe - so I won't start. If you think it's fine mate, god help you.

I would not want to see PCC spending more than minimal resources on trying to get the numerous empty units let at present as it would be trowing good money after bad.
Firstly, the general economic downturn and change in consumer habits away from direct retail towards growing internet purchases are already creating and will lead to further major changes in the way our city centres operate and the uses to which they are put. A major rethink of the city centre concept and offer (everywhere, not just Preston) is needed - and I don't claim to know what the answer is yet.
Secondly, the existing empty units in the city centre suffer from generally being too small, badly configured with very poor servicing and few amenities. This makes them expensive to run and therefore not attractive to potential tenants - hence the "good money after bad" comment. These were issues which the Tithebarn was attempting to address and only major redevelopment, albeit broken down into much smaller and more manageable parcels, can create a future credible retail offer.

Pedestrianisation of Fishergate is vital - we are the only place I know of of this size without a pedestrianised high street - but the local geography does make it very difficult as the river and parks make access from the south very limited. Improving speedy access to the city centre from all directions by trams is the best way get more shoppers in to town and revive the vitality of the city centre.


Pedestrianisation is vital, I agree. It will be difficult to resolve the problems of having the Ring Road and Avenham so close, though, because there are so many ways to get into/out of the city. How to divert traffic to Penwortham or out of Avenham without clogging up the Ring Road?


Trams won't work. At all.

I'm completely, utterly, absolutely against trams for Preston. We don't need them - there's an extensive bus network already in place. Our streets are too narrow, for one thing. Would be a complete vanity project.

I would'nt say that the city centre by in large is ok. The area that would have been covered by Tithebarn is a mess and not the sort of area that you could use to sell Preston to visitors. Perhaps the Tithebarn Project method would be wrong for the area. However for me this area signifies the decline that Preston has been on over the years. Stand outside the Lloyds on Lancaster Road and tell me what is good about the view!

Also I don't see the problem with spreading the city centre out more. If you take Tithebarn as the example, Preston would have had two anchors at either end of it. The Rail Station/Debehnam at one end and the Bus Station/John Lewis at the other. The footfall would be spread across them. Seems like a pretty good way of doing it to me.

I would argue that trams would be great for Preston. Re-using the Longridge Line to connect the Train Station, PNE, Deepdale Retail Park and Redscar. Think of all the cars that this could remove from the roads. not just in the form of commuters but also residents. Deepdale is a pretty dense area for trams to run through! Though I realise it will never happen as there is no focus on public transport investment in this country unless it is London or maybe Manchester.

I cant write a massive reply because im in Barcelona and using my phone. In terms of the overall satisfaction of the city centre, it hasnt really changed much since the 1990s and its fast becoming unfit for purpose. The point about the size and layout of retail units is the key one, and that was one of tithebarns key selling points. But its not just about retail units...the Guildhall has lost pretty much every major event that it held due to it being severely outdated and underfunded, the office accommodation is no longer sufficient to attract the private sector, alongside many other reasons why the city centre is lacking appeal. I also agree about the city centre being too spread out. Consolidation should be happening in the areas between the railway station and the flag market. As for trams, they should certainly not be discouraged. They are more effective than buses at taking cars off the road, and they attract large amounts of investment along their routes. Its not all bad, large parts of the city centre are beautiful, and Preston is often described as the next big thing due to its massive investment potential.

Some of you may be interested in reading the responses given by council leader Peter Rankin to a Q&A session on BlogPreston

These included:


"There are plans for a rail station and park and ride to be built at Cottam as part of the proposals for new housing developments there. No plans anywhere else that I can recall."



"The Labour Group is particularly committed to the food market and want to spend great deal of what little capital monies we have on a new generation food market in the old fish market. The old market hall built in the 1960s has been neglected over the past 10 years as it was thought that Tithebarn would bring in untold wealth to enable a glassed in covered market to be developed. I have the job in a time of recesion of moving us forward with redeveloped markets and a redeveloped site with cinema and restaurants. This won't be easy but staying in the old market hall with its £5m+ repairs is not an option in the medium term"


"Save the bus station at all costs? What if there aren't any buses calling at the bus station? And at all costs? Really at all costs? Where is all the money going to come from for this?"


"I am trying to kick-start development in the city centre. In our Your City, Your Say consultation, many young people said that what was needed was a city centre cinema and mid-range restaurants. Thats what we want to try and get off the ground in the markets quarter, together with a redeveloped market. Retail throughout the UK is going through very difficult times and large scale retail development is very unlikely in Preston for the next few years."

Hard to disagree with any of that really. Nice to see that Cottam Parkway is back on the agenda. Together with the recent opening of Buckshaw Parkway, and a redeveloped Leyland P+R station, Preston's utilisation of the railway network is increasing. With the advent of tram-trains in the near future, I am hopeful these opportunities will further increase, particularly on the East Lancs and Ormskirk lines, and if we are very lucky, a reopened Longridge line.

New office complex proposed for Glovers Court, just off Winckley Square:

http://www.lep.co.uk/news/business/printworks-offices-to-breathe-life-into-centre-1-4586637

Additional news, Sainsbury's on the corner of Liverpool Road and Cop Lane in Penwortham was approved this week.

New office complex proposed for Glovers Court, just off Winckley Square:

http://www.lep.co.uk/news/business/printworks-offices-to-breathe-life-into-centre-1-4586637

Additional news, Sainsbury's on the corner of Liverpool Road and Cop Lane in Penwortham was approved this week.

Here is the link to the Sainsburys story if anyone missed it

http://www.lep.co.uk/news/local/supermarket-plan-is-agreed-1-4574244

Living 2 minutes away from this I cannot wait to see them get started, first major development in Penwortham for a long, long time. I am slightly concerned at the possible increase in traffic, but if it helps the push for a bypass..!