Are Birminghams progressive coalition trying to kill the eastside initiative off, by slowly sabotaging various elements of the scheme !!!

reading the Birmingham Post on Saturday there was a piece regarding eastside and the £80m technology park to be situated around MIllenium Point. The article said that Advantage West Midlands have had to cancel a press launch for the new scheme due to the concil not be happy with AWM. The scheme is now delayed, even though it is funded !!

A council source was quoted as saying they are teaching advantage west midlands a lesson.

Apparantly relations between the council and AWM are at rock bottom, they are the main drivers of the eastside scheme, if they cant work together it is unlikely to move forward very quickly

Surely delaying a major scheme like this is pure spite in behalf of the conservatives !!!

couple with the abondoning of the libabry scheme, the RCO move delayed the mcdermiud situation....they dont seem to be proactive in trying to solve these issues

are the council really trying hard enough to push eastside forward, or do you think they are quite happy to sit back let it fail !!! afterall it is a legacy of the previous labour administration and they seem hellbent on destroying anything they did !!

If that 'council source' is being truthful this is utterly astonishing behavior. It deserves questions in parliament. The behavior of the council in general needs serious examination. I feel to write to my MP. For pity's sake, the thing is funded already!

Spite is the word.

When are the next round of council elections?
I'm beginning to think maybe it's best if this project stalls under Conservative leadership. If Labour can get the council back, I'd rather wait for Labour to return and develop the site properly, rather than see the Conservatives waste the opportunity.

If that is the reason for the delays then it just goes to show how childish the Conservatives can be really! If they cared more about the city instead of their silly little games we might actually get somewhere!! :bash:

don't forget the park. Rather than an exemplar of contempory landscape design they were talking of traditional flowerbeds & bandstands and naming it after winston churchill. !

Library thread is gone too so here will do.


It's all across today's paper and I'll post the article shortly but Whitby has just been on the radio WM justifing the split site library. Banged on about AV equipement, technology and innovation? It's made me so angry! I have never wanted to write to my MP or lobby for a particular cause but this really is the worst outcome for our city.

I think what is needed is a website and online petition like the stopthiscoachstation one the residents of the Jewellery Quarter set up. Anyone up for the challenge?

I'll post it for you Dan

Split-site library will cost £147m Jul 19 2005




By Paul Dale, Chief Reporter


Birmingham will get a library fit for the 21st century within six years at a cost of £147 million.

The city council last night revealed plans for a split-site scheme - with the lending library in a purpose-built building next to Baskerville House, off Centenary Square, and the city archives and reference section in an extension to Millennium Point at Eastside.

The project will be paid for with a variety of public and private funding, but depends largely on the Department of Culture, Media and Sport approving a request from the council for a £55 million Private Finance initiative.

Council leader Mike Whitby said the proposal, to be rubber-stamped by the cabinet on Monday, would be cheaper and easier to deliver than a planned 400,00 sq ft library at Eastside designed by award-winning architect Lord Rogers.

The Rogers scheme, brought forward by the council's previous Labour administration, was dropped on cost grounds by Coun Whitby when he became leader of the council at the head of a Conservative-Liberal Democrat coalition a year ago.

Coun Whitby said: "In four years of talking about their supposedly grand plans Labour never once bothered to make an application to the Government for funding. The Rogers' plan was never properly costed and there was never any money to deliver it.

"In just over 12 months since taking office we have resolved an impasse, identified sensible funding routes and have a first class plan for a library that the people of Birmingham can justly be proud of."

The two library buildings will cater for very different needs.

The lending section, dubbed the Knowledge Centre, will concentrate on promoting reading with a particular objective to "reach out" to disadvantaged communities.

The archive and reference section, in a 15,000 square metre extension to Millennium Point, will be known as the Heritage Centre and will allow the showcasing of Birmingham's close involvement with the Industrial Revolution.

Coun Whitby insisted that both of the new buildings would be of the highest quality.

However, architects will not be appointed until a funding package is in place.

The council has already spent £1 million since 2001 in preparing the Rogers plan, which has now been scrapped.

Reports to next Monday's cabinet meeting put the cost of refurbishing and extending the existing Central Library, in Paradise Forum, at £124.5 million. However, there would be little likelihood of attracting external funding.

Building a new library at Eastside, but not to the original Rogers concept design, would cost £180 million.

Market research commissioned by the council suggested that most people would prefer lending facilities to be at the heart of the city centre.

Coun Whitby said a journey by foot between the two proposed library sites would take no longer than 15 minutes. The council is planning talks with bus companies about special services.

The cabinet report concludes: "The Library of Birmingham will deliver an unprecedented improvement in the city's library provision, It will be a unique place for knowledge, understanding and innovation through learning, information and culture."

this is just stupid, i have had enough of this council, if they were gonna split it on two sites then they could at least have them near each other

Depending on the length of repayment on the PFI, that £55 million component will be a lot higher too. I'd bet the long term cost will be closer to £200 million.

I guess we get what we vote for, I just hope that the tories have learned the selfridges lesson and appoint top architects for both sites !!

unfortunately I doubt the tories are able to grasp the concept of good design and the fact it can be as commercialy viable as shit design...and if a PFI is involved, expect the cheapest materials and shoddiest building x

No i did not vote for them, I mean as a collective x

but two sites so far apart it just stupid, have libary users been consulted on htis?? i bet you not

why not just scale down the richard rojers design and build that as one liabary,

this would never be allowed to happen in manchester, say what you guys will like but at this rate in 5 years time brum will still look the same with few changes here and there, while manchster,liverpoo and leeds will have buildings and a transport system to envy

cheaper and easier to deliver than a planned 400,00 sq ft library at Eastside designed by award-winning architect Lord Rogers.

Says it all. Cheaper and easier. It's always cheaper and easier to build shite buildings which everyone hates. Don't mean it's better though.

I guess we get what we vote for, I just hope that the tories have learned the selfridges lesson and appoint top architects for both sites !!

unfortunately I doubt the tories are able to grasp the concept of good design and the fact it can be as commercialy viable as shit design...and if a PFI is involved, expect the cheapest materials and shoddiest building x

Mike Whitby contradicts himself to suit what he is saying at a given time, previous he was saying that people don't want and expensive fancy library they just want's something to be cost effective and 'warm inside". today trying to polish up his shit he says "we have a first class plan for a library that the people of Birmingham can justly be proud of"

And "architects will not be appointed until a funding package is in place." So how are we anywhere further ahead than before? we still don't have a guaranteed fund for the scheme, and how can you cost a scheme before an architect has designed it? :bash:

he also says he wants to use a top architect for the centenary square site.....tellingly he does not mention a top architect for the millenium point site.......knowing how conservatives think, we will probably end up with a mock tudor semi with stone cladding and a thatched roof, lol

the whole things a joke....just like the 'progressive partnership'

If they really had any aspiration they would have

A: gone hell for leather and tried to get the Rogers Design funded

B: now they are going split site, identidy a sensilble cost and then hold an architectural competition...even invite Lord Rogers to submit

I doubt though the Tories have any aspiration other than cost !!!

Since they took power its been like leaving the local cornershop owner in charge of a hypermarket......small minded does not even come close

I really can't see this happening now. the Tory/Lib Dems have now turned it into a political issue and as soon as Labour regain power they'll try to resurrect the

Unfortunately your right, this is now a political issue.....however, I doubt Labour will now have power again in Birmingham until there is no longer a National Labour Government. Tony Blair might not get critism at the moment, but the fact remains, the Labour Government is unpopular for many reasons and this will translate into votes for the Tories and Lib Dems at local level

Sadly people vote locally on National Issues.....so the local Tories and Lib dems may be a pile of wank, but people are not voting for them personally!!!

I think we will be stuck with these jokers for a long time now, and as the Lib Dems hold the cards and seem to have serious personality clashes wiht the local Labour group, expect the Tories to get in on a smaller percentage of the popular vote than Labour for the foreseable future

Bloody Lib Dems x

I really can't see this happening now. the Tory/Lib Dems have now turned it into a political issue and as soon as Labour regain power they'll try to resurrect the Rogers Library and we'll be back to square one.

Mike Whitby contradicts himself to suit what he is saying at a given time,


yes he says that people want it in the city centre not eastside whic is too far fro peopel, and then says he'll put one part in eastside and that its only "15 minutes walk" from centenary squaer so nobody shoudl find that a problem.

Doesnt say very much for their plan for east side either if the far side of centenary square is considered city centre even though its outside the queensway but the bottom of masshouse isnt.

The newspaper article refers to "the city archives and reference section in an extension to Millennium Point at Eastside." There is a kind of suggestion here that a stand-alone building won't be built, suggesting instead a 'bolt-on' to MP. Hopefully not.

I think this is a compromise between the Lib dems and the Torys, the Lib Dems wanting to house a new library in the spare space at Millennium Point, whilst the Torys favoured the carpark

now we have a split site to keep them both happy

Jesus, they are a JOKE

SLOWLY killed? What's "slow" about it? I don't think it was ever even conceived, let alone BORN!

at this rate in 5 years time brum will still look the same with few changes here and there, while manchester,liverpool and leeds will have buildings and a transport system to envy

So, what's new exactly?

I said words to that effect many times over as long as two years ago. Nothing has changed my opinion since. Birmingham's snail like progress on many [infrastructural] fronts is enough to make even the most hardened optimist (hiya Woodhousen) become a seethingly bitter cynic.

could'nt agree with you more martin g, people seem to think just because we've got the new bullring, birmingham is on the up. too many cock ups, anybody want to invest in birmingham only needs to look at what the council has screwed up to see that they would be better off taking their projects elsewhere

Birmingham New Street Station - second biggest eyesore in the UK of all time.

Midland Metro - a fucking disaster from the start. Shortest most useless trams in the whole of Britain. Have you ever tried riding in one of the damned things?

The M6 Motorway.

The crap (ever shrinking) Main Road network that just gets more and more congested.

The trendy anti-car policy that the city council now desperately want to adopt and yet can't really ever pull off unless trains and trams are improved with immediate MASSIVE INVESTMENT..... like..... RIGHT BLOODY YESTERDAY!

The dithering over the Coach station saga.

The dithering over the Eastlands Library re-siting.

The dithering over the street-running versus underground-running tram proposals.

The dithering over other major proposals elsewhere.

The dithering...just the fucking dithering.

Need I fucking go on?

:rant:

New Street, The m6 are not in the councils hands, only central government can fund these, and as we know other cities got there first, fair play to them for having effective MP's and lobbying tactics

The new council is anything BUT ANTI CAR and has suspended bus lanes and is ripping up speed bumps.....its also responsible for holding up the metro

But your right about the dithering, fucking frustrating

as for the Coach Station, i am sure Ken shuttleworth will pull out all the stops

A its his home city, and B its a great advert for his new practice if it gets half the attention the Gerkin did !!!

Whitby was on the radio again this morning after the Gardiner and Theobald consultants' report drawn up for the council was leaked. This evaluated nine options and strongly recommended the Eastside option.

Our city leaders chose to ignore the report and create a tenth option which was announced this week. The only good thing to come from this is that hopefully people will see sense and kick them out in May. :)

Front page news from the today's paper.

20/07/05 Birmingham Post
Labour says it will axe split-site library

Labour will scrap plans for a £147 million library on split sites if the party regains control of Birmingham City Council next year.

Every attempt will be made instead to resurrect the proposed Richard Rogers designed 400,000 sq ft library at Eastside, which the Conservative-Liberal Democrat controlled council has declared too expensive to deliver.

Ian Ward, deputy Labour group leader, hit out at the "crazy" plan to build the new library on two sites -the lending section in Centenary Square and the archive and reference section at Millennium Point. It would take Birmingham back to the 1950s, he declared.

The proposal, first revealed, yesterday by The Birmingham Post, will be approved by the council cabinet next week. Coun Ward (Shard End) claimed the difference in price between the split-site library and the Rogers design was "only £25 million".

Coun Ward also accused the Conservative-Lib Dem coalition of ignoring the recommendations in a consultants' report drawn up for the council. The report by Gardiner and Theobald, which has never been published; is believed to have concluded that the Rogers library at Eastside would give the best value for money."

Coun Ward added: "We will not implement this crazy scheme if we win power in May. We will not support a scheme that does not deliverer the people of Birmingham. This is the worst possible option that they could have come up with. They can't demonstrate that they can deliver it, there is no detailed business plan and it confirms that they have no vision for the city and no ambition."

Failure to fight for the Rogers scheme exposed council leader Mike Whitby as a "'small town politician without ambition", Coun Ward added.

Labour believe the running costs of a split site library will be high and that it will be difficult to attract external funding.

Good on 'em. I htink I'm gonna cancel my Lib Dems membership after seeing them perform locally.

Bloody coalition with the Tories... what are they playing at?!

Told you they would didn't I?

surley there nust be some way that all of us can ask to see this report after all it has been paid with our money??

freedom of information act anyone??who do we contact

I've got a letter about the split site library in the Birmingham Post today :)

Plenty of venomous letters in todays Birmingham Post in response to the split site library and the consultants recomendations.

Letters & Opinion 22/07/05

Dear Editor, - A split site for the new library is a terrible idea totally lacking in vision, aspiration and integrity.
We have the amazing opportunity of the greatest civic building in the city for a century (right) by Richard Rogers, one of the leading lights of British architecture, and with the potential to be one of world's best libraries. Why a split site is even being considered, especially in the light of the Gardiner and Theobald recommendations, of which the current administration have been privy, I find unfathomable.
Construction inefficiencies, PFI funding and running costs of two separate libraries will cost more in the long term and serve to water down everything which is outstanding with the Eastside scheme. Admittedly we have yet to see plans but Mr Whitby should be fighting for funding not proposing cheap, diluted schemes and I urge people to heed Mr Whitby's recent comments such as 'cheap and easy to build' as a warning sign of what we will get if the current administration have their way.
Whatever happens the new library will be an icon for new Birmingham, however, now we have the choice of a compromised, 'cheap' scheme or something truly inspirational. I know which I prefer.
Daniel Tournay Edgbaston

Dear Editor, - I have to say the decision to put a 21st century library in two different areas highlights how out of touch our council leaders are. I remember how the new Conservative and Liberal Democrat leaders promised to bring a professional business approach to the council.
Well really! How can the upkeep of two separate buildings be cost-effective. There will be higher costs and needs, higher staffing costs, higher maintenance costs, more specialist translators required, having to move between buildings for meetings, mail deliveries, cover and shared resources.
How will the elderly and less able move between these sites9 How will we be able to incorporate the needs of a 21st century library when the analysis states the converse of what is being suggested here?
What about the extra costs we will have to find again before we even get to have new design, like going out to tender and seeking planning permission?
Oh dear, being business focused, Couns Whitby and Tilsley, means you do a lot more before you make a decision like this to oust a 21st Century library fit for purpose. For instance: market evaluation, a feasibility, a full cost benefit analysis, benefits realisation and fit for purpose. Perhaps some of us know the real route to business success after all.
Worst of all, you do not take the chance of a cheap solution now and pay for the ongoing cost later...pretty fundamental in running a business, especially ours. It's public money don't forget and you are accountable!
CC Glew Edgbaston

Dear Editor, - I think the split-site library is completely wrong. I agree with the reasons put forward by lan Ward (Post, July 20). In addition, I there appears to be no assurance that the Whitby idea costs won't sky-rocket once the architect has been chosen and produced detailed plans.
Another consideration which the Tory-Lib Dem cabinet seems to have completely ignored is the fact that many users of the reference library would also wish to use the lending library - siting them some distance away from one another would make this very difficult. It will hit especially hard those from disadvantaged communities who are trying to achieve against the odds. So much for inclusion!
Dr C Gale Edgbaston

Dear Editor, - When will our councillors finally sit down together and come up with a vision for the library that has been agreed by all who must play a part in its development. With the future in terms of political power uncertain, the library proposal must be one which is backed by all parties so that its completion can be guaranteed.
T Dunn Harborne

Dear Editor, - If the difference in price is only. £25 million then it’s absurd not to fight for the Richard Rogers library. An iconic building for the future of Birmingham rather than an expensive bad and seemingly practically bad idea in splitting the library site. Furthermore, does the council really think that Birmingham doesn't need good architecture?
C Smith via icbirmingham.co.uk/post

Dear Editor, - I believe Mike Whitby has an agenda to make Birmingham the eighth largest economic centre in UK with his lack of vision and crazy plans. I mean he can find it feasible to fund an underground system for the city even in the face of government approval for the Metro city extension.
Why can't he see the benefit of having the Rogers Library of Birmingham in Eastside?
The council needs to review its planning, cultural and transportation strategies or international firms will bypass Brum and go to Leeds and Manchester. His lack of vision will cripple and restrain us. Bring back Labour.
Michael King via icbirmingham.co.uk/post

I enjoyed those!More letters I think!

Great stuff. It's good to see we're not the only people disgusted at Coun Whitby's plan. If there's too many voices, he'll have to concede at some point.

Public 'misled' over library Jul 25 2005
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::.



By Neil Connor

Council leaders in Birmingham have misled the public by covering up a report that "undermines" the decision for the city to have a split-site library, it was claimed.

Birmingham City Council's ruling cabinet will today back proposals to build a new lending library next to Baskerville House, off Centenary Square, and site the city's archives and reference section in an extension to Millennium Point at Eastside.
The decision comes in spite of a report commissioned by the council which concludes that an iconic library at Eastside on one site is the preferred option.

According to the executive summary of the study carried out by Gardiner and Theobald, the option of a "new library building achieving international recognition and setting the standards worldwide is the option that best fits with all the objectives".

The report, which The Birmingham Post has learned cost the council £79,500, states that, because of its iconic nature, an Eastside library "draws the greatest amount of stakeholder investment resulting in the lowest financial requirement from the City Council".

The report was initially commissioned to examine a series of options for replacing the city's Central Library which included upgrading the existing site as well as looking at other options including Baskerville House and Paradise Circus.

The criteria for the study included the cost, how development would impact on residents, how and whether it would boost regeneration and how inspirational any new development would be.

Despite the findings, the city's ruling Conservative-Liberal Democrat coalition have said it helped them come to the decision for the £147 million split-site option although it is not listed as one of the background papers in the report being considered by the cabinet.

Labour leader Sir Albert Bore believes the report is not listed as it would have put in the public domain information that "undermines" the decision taken by the council leadership.

He said: "Right from the start the Conservative-Liberal Democrat coalition have been unwilling to make available information that should have been in the public domain. Also, when it comes to making a decision they are still not willing to put that information in the public domain because they know the work by the consultants undermines the whole rationale of what they are proposing."

Today's cabinet meeting is likely to see opposition members accuse council leaders of selling Birmingham short.

Labour says it will make every attempt to resurrect its plan for a 400,000 sq ft library at Eastside designed by Richard Rogers if they are reelected. The current administration has already declared that option as too expensive.

Cabinet member for regeneration Coun Ken Hardeman (Con Brandwood) said Labour had never properly examined the funding and that even if the report had favoured a £179 million "iconic" library, it had not specifically promoted the Rogers' option.

Coun Hardeman said: " Labour have been saying that the difference between the split-site option and the Rogers design is only going to be £25 million, but that is simply not the case.

"On the evidence that we have the Rogers library would have cost in excess of £250 million and the money simply isn't there."

£12m bill for park in Eastside
Aug 25 2005

An eight-acre park touted as the green heart of Birmingham Eastside could cost the city council £12 million to build. Cabinet regeneration member Ken Hardeman admitted being lost for words when he was given an estimate for turning a large part of Digbeth into finely-mown lawns, flower beds and woodland. A large proportion of the expenditure involves assembling the land on which the park will be built, which is in the possession of a variety of owners.

Coun Hardeman (Con Brandwood) is confident of assembling a funding package for what would be the first new city centre park for more than 100 years. He hopes that the final cost can be reduced from an initial figure of between £10 million and £12 million.

A bid to the National Lottery is planned in addition to an application for money from the European Social Fund and Advantage West Midlands. Private sector developers will contribute £1 million towards the park in return for planning permission for a variety of Eastside projects. Coun Hardeman added: "I know that £12 million sounds like a lot of money. I couldn't get my breath at first, but we are talking about an eightacre site.

"The estimate may be excessive but it is far better to over-estimate the cost of something than to be landed with a huge additional bill at a later stage because initial soundings were too cautious and you end up paying twice as much. It is a step-by-step operation."

He said it would be impossible to place a final figure on costs until the exact content of the park had been decided.

Architects hoping to win the contract to design the park have been told to think largely along traditional lines, but not to be afraid to dabble with selective modernist features. The city council cabinet will approve a design brief next month. Coun Hardeman, who is the chairman of a steering group charged with delivering the park by 2008, plans to hold a design competition with a short-list of six architects being paid £5,000 each to come up with proposals. The winning firm will get the right to design the park.

Coun Hardeman said the cabinet was unanimous in the view that the park should be largely traditional. A previous suggestion of a Japanese design has been rejected. He added: "The message is that we mean business. The park has been talked about for a long time but we have identified the funding and it is actually going to happen now.

"There is a united view that we want to see it as green and traditional. However, we want to see a bit of imagination around what could be a visitor attraction to the city.

"There will be one or two features that will be unique and special but will not detract from the bigger picture which is a park for the people of Birmingham to use. We don't want several acres of gimmicks but if we can add to the attractiveness then that will bring people into Birmingham. Certain areas of the park could be specific to a theme. It is not just going to be the whole area grassed over."

The park, an eight-acre green spine, will connect Park Street Gardens and Moor Street Station to the Digbeth Branch Canal

unanimous? really? I dont want a japanesse garden either but shouldn't we be building the best of current landscape design not a traditional park which will eventually be surrounded by modern buildings. The 'traditional' park space around the cathedral and colmore row works so well because of the scale and period buildings. I fear that to try to replicate something like this outside Millenium Point will result in something ridiculous. I only hope the appointed architects will be able to talk the cabinet round.

I'm still struggling to understand what they mean by traditional. If it means they want grass to sit on and trees to take shade under, well I'm up for that. But if they're talking bandstands and rose gardens, they're barking up the wrong tree. Those sorts of things are going to look well-out-of-place in the centre of a modern city.
I'd prefer something simple. Grass, trees, even flower beds but the art and functional structures (fountains, statues, benches, etc) have to be modern and exciting. This is going to be a centre piece remember.

i think bandstands and benches are what the tories intended, but have probably been told how silly that would be in the context of eastside.....well if the council officers are worth the money they are paid, thats whats happened...as suddenly there is mention of modernist features.....I only hope we dont get a 'modern' bandstand !!! with a 'modern' bowling green and a 'modern' crazy gold course........and maybe while there at it they could stone clad the rotunda.....;)

The Library Farce rumbles on

The council would have us believe that they cannot afford the split site library now and may go for a refurb of Paradise Circus !!! they say the Eastside scheme is completely undeliverable, even though this stood a better chance of getting goverment monies !!! and this report flies in the face of the cost consultants report, which was not prepared by politicians and there cronies

If they go for a split site they the eastside part woudl be 'a no frills box'

so much for architectural ambition and the words of council leader Mike Whitby, oh and they would make cuts to the Library Service too

It appears to me to be a case of mismamanagement and complete imcompetence on behalf of the council.....NO SURPRISE THERE

roll on May next year and we can vote these arseholes out

We may vote them our Brum2003 but you can bet the Rogers' library will not come back with a new administration :(

Labour have made a commitment to it !! so who knows what will happen

We can live in hope - the Tories won't make a commitment until after the local elections.

But remember - they are politicians - it is easier to say "we can't do it because of the last lot" than to actually get on a do something.

And nationally, Labour said they weren't going to introduce fees for university didn't they? Hmm - what happened there......?

I really do hope that the Rogers' one goes ahead.

I know, makes you sick.

again Birmingham Trumpets a scheme (ie Arena Central, Rogers Library) and it never gets built....makes the city look stupid and incompetent

argggg

the tories are staying, dispite this liabry fisaco i rather have them in charge at the moment then labour

I'm cancelling my Lib Dem membership.

I like them nationally, but they've just shown that they suck ass (never said that before) by joining with the tory cowboys.

I am not sure about Lib Dem council Blunther - aren't they having problems with redevelopment in the Lib Dem-run councils such as Liverpool & Brighton?

Admittedly, there is a lot more to a council than building a library....

A coaltion is not such a bad thing, i think the problem with brum is the coalition partners are not the best bedfellows

a coalition between labour and lib dem would be a much better fit and this may well happen after the 2006 elections, leaving the tories where they belong, in opposition, after all, they have shown what they are capable of in a year and a half......NOTHING !! exceot dragging the city backwards and infuriating the councils regional and city wide partners (ie AWM, GOWM, central government)

Labour, like any ruling party did alot wrong, but it got much more right than the bunch of self serving idiots now running the show. they are petty spiteful and above all hampering the citys progress

For me the Roger's library should still go ahead.As regards the council it appears Labour are the only ones with a bit of imagination about them.Regardless of national politics and taking into account this is a skyscraper/architectural forum they seem to be the only party willing to invest in an intersting future .Unfortunately,I can't think of one pulsating idea the local goverment have given us.Can you?

the tories are staying, dispite this liabry fisaco i rather have them in charge at the moment then labour
May I ask why..? :runaway:

For me the Roger's library should still go ahead.As regards the council it appears Labour are the only ones with a bit of imagination about them.Regardless of national politics and taking into account this is a skyscraper/architectural forum they seem to be the only party willing to invest in an intersting future .Unfortunately,I can't think of one pulsating idea the local goverment have given us.Can you?

well erm, maybe, possibly, who know's.....

I know maybe they could run the city's services into the ground, sack lots of workers, skimp on the cost of major projects.... All so they can shave a few pounds of everyones council tax bills, thast value for money and efficient government folks x

I wish they would get on with this!! It seems to have been dragging on for ages!

On a tangent, I am not a big fan of the current library, like a lot of people. It isn't it's aesthetic qualities (or lack of) - actually compared to old one it doesn't even rank, but there are a lot worse examples of 60's/70s arcitecture in B/ham if you ask me (e.g. Toys are us building) - but what i don't like about it is the inside, I dunno, it just feels really oppressive, and stuffy all of the time, makes me feel ill if I'm in there too long (so if they can get rid of 5 ways tower, they can this too lol)! Plus, it is really dingy and dirty... not exactly an appropriate "learning" atmosphere!

I am in favour of the original eastside plan... 2 sites?? What is that about?? lol

Original Eastside plan please!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pirlo_21
the tories are staying, dispite this liabry fisaco i rather have them in charge at the moment then labour

"May I ask why..?"

labour are very good at coming up with ideas but never delvering on them. anyhow i have seen the tories actually go ahead with a lot more schemes in several areas i used to live in. the actually making progress in more importnat things like raod improvements school, eductaion, plus i'm a die-hard tory

what i don't like about it is the inside, I dunno, it just feels really oppressive, and stuffy all of the time, makes me feel ill if I'm in there too long (so if they can get rid of 5 ways tower, they can this too lol)! Plus, it is really dingy and dirty... not exactly an appropriate "learning" atmosphere!

I am in favour of the original eastside plan... 2 sites?? What is that about?? lol

It's been a while since I've been in there, but what gets me about Birmingham Library is the fact it dosn't work as a building. To get to the reference bit you have to go up an Escaltor, walk 50 meters in on direction, turn around in a small cramped place, walk 20 meters back the same way, up an (small single file, no way to walk up steps) escalertor, with a small turn around and it's the same all the way up.

Dunno if they've improved it, stoped at least one of the escalators being broken at one time, but it's like the old Bull Ring, not user friendy. And that's ignoring what was there to build it!

I quite like the upside Pyramid of the outside, dosn't match the Town hall or council house of course.

plus it always too hot in there

Quote:
Originally Posted by pirlo_21
the tories are staying, dispite this liabry fisaco i rather have them in charge at the moment then labour

"May I ask why..?"

labour are very good at coming up with ideas but never delvering on them. anyhow i have seen the tories actually go ahead with a lot more schemes in several areas i used to live in. the actually making progress in more importnat things like raod improvements school, eductaion, plus i'm a die-hard tory
If it wasn't for the Labour group leading B'Ham city council we wouldn't have had the ICC, Brindleyplace, Centenary Square, Eastside..hardly what I'd call not delivering their ideas? Give me one 'big idea' the Tories have come up with for Birmingham, let alone delivered on! However if you're just a die-hard Tory there's no helping you... :ohno: ;)

yes in the city centre they have done a lot but what about out of the cityu centre they did shit all ,

if you want a picture of Tory philosphy, take a look on TV at Hurricane katrina, and the misery and mess that have followed......exposing the true america : Poverty, Inequality, Racism, lack of public service and EVERYTHING done as cheaply as possible for short term gain (reminds you of Little England)

Thats the consequences of the philosophy they propose, Small Government, less tax, no public service and the privatisation of everything. Leading to a deeply flawed and polarised and desperate society, and they wonder why people commit crime and have no respect?? a few benefit enormously while the majority struggle, even the ones who think they are doing well are not really !!!...

Thatcher should be burnt at the stake before she has another stroke ;)

As for Birminghams Tories, they take there cue form the above, the Library should be done as cheaply as possible and only be viewed from a TAXATION point of view, no matter the BENEFIT in the LONG TERM (words they dont understand) to the city, its people and future generations and there educational aspirations, one Tory councillor even said the PUBLIC dont want Iconic Buildings as they cost too much and are a waste of MONEY.....as only money can inspire

I often wander why Britain spent most of the post war years in relative economic decline, with the lowest levels of public investment (look at our infrastructure compared to the rest of Europe, even China has faster trains) and highest poverty rates in Europe ??? could it be we had a near uninterrupted reign of Conservatism and the FUCK SOCIETY mentality that envolved !!!!

If it wasn't for the Labour group leading B'Ham city council we wouldn't have had the ICC, Brindleyplace, Centenary Square, Eastside..hardly what I'd call not delivering their ideas? Give me one 'big idea' the Tories have come up with for Birmingham, let alone delivered on! However if you're just a die-hard Tory there's no helping you... :ohno: ;)

I agree Midge, if the current Tories were in power, we would have had no NEC, ICC, Symphony Hall, Pedestranisation, Public Squares (look at Colmore Plaza if you want to see what the private sector will get away with if allowed to) etc etc etc

as all the above A) cost TAXPAYERS lots of money and B) will continue to do so for there lifetimes.....and as you know, its a SIN to put up taxes in Tory World (unless they fuck up the ecomomy again and we all pay)

despite the fact these venues and public realm improvements have brought IMMESUREABLE business to the city, vast enjoyment and pride to the citizens of Birmingham

PRICELESS

yes but the fact is libarys are becioming reduntant there was a report in the times which highlighted the fact that less and less people are using public libary these days

and oh leave thatcher alone

I agree Midge, if the current Tories were in power, we would have had no NEC, ICC, Symphony Hall, Pedestranisation, Public Squares (look at Colmore Plaza if you want to see what the private sector will get away with if allowed to) etc etc etc

as all the above A) cost TAXPAYERS lots of money and B) will continue to do so for there lifetimes.....and as you know, its a SIN to put up taxes in Tory World (unless they fuck up the ecomomy again and we all pay)

despite the fact these venues and public realm improvements have brought IMMESUREABLE business to the city, vast enjoyment and pride to the citizens of Birmingham

PRICELESS

Tut tut Brum2003 - it was the Labour council which approved Colmore Plaza...

And I think it is a pretty even split as to who governed this country since the war!

And your tirade against Conservatism is unwarranted - Labour also have an appalling record over the past 50 years (in national and local government terms).

I am only playing devil's advocate here because I think they are all as bad as each other - they spend more time trying to outdo one another rather than getting on and running the country (and city).

I am, however, a fan of minimal government. Basically, I pay my taxes (far too much I hasten to add) and I want government to provide me with the basics health service, defence and law enforcement, and the odd project of national importance. I want my local authority to have more power because they are the ones I interact with more - they provide local services, education and grants for culture, arts, sport etc. I then want more money (that I earn) in my pocket so I can spend it where I please thus driving the local and national economy better.

yes but the fact is libarys are becioming reduntant there was a report in the times which highlighted the fact that less and less people are using public libary these days

and oh leave thatcher alone

Hence the new livavry was to have fully utilised new technology making oit more of a learning centre....the archive section is on international significance and the reference section is one of the largest in europe, surely this deserves better than a 'no frills box, and this is heavily used !!

As for Thathcher :) your welcome

Tut tut Brum2003 - it was the Labour council which approved Colmore Plaza...

And I think it is a pretty even split as to who governed this country since the war!

And your tirade against Conservatism is unwarranted - Labour also have an appalling record over the past 50 years (in national and local government terms).

I am only playing devil's advocate here because I think they are all as bad as each other - they spend more time trying to outdo one another rather than getting on and running the country (and city).

I am, however, a fan of minimal government. Basically, I pay my taxes (far too much I hasten to add) and I want government to provide me with the basics health service, defence and law enforcement, and the odd project of national importance. I want my local authority to have more power because they are the ones I interact with more - they provide local services, education and grants for culture, arts, sport etc. I then want more money (that I earn) in my pocket so I can spend it where I please thus driving the local and national economy better.

yep labour and conservative have both messed this city up architecturally, no debate there

as for small government, its true I believe local government should have more power and resources, and decentraliastion is a good thing

but as for the 'small state' take a look at America and its smal state private solutions and the true cost in social cohesion, crime, inequality !! and then take a look at counties where government works, the scandinavian countries are the best example....lower crime rates, social equality, better educational standard, the list is endless oh and of course superior public realms and transport....sure pay less tax but you end up paying far more to buy services from the private sector, which in truth can be just a inefficient as the public sector can be (of course both can do great jobs too)

The Tories best stroke was demonising the public sector as 'inefficeitn and wasteful' despite the hard work they do with poor reward, and at the same time offering the private sector and market as saviour of us all.....the truth when you scratch the surface is terriying, unless yur the super rich


oh anyway, lifes to short for politics and this is for skyscrapers *when we ever get one ;) its always good to know what people think though

just for the record i dont like the tories nor this current lot in charge, i only typed that in to get a bit of debate going

the problem i see is also the indiviual, themeselves, they hardly ever vote ,nor do they get there MPs to work for THEM. most people will simply leave them in charge for four years moaning to themeselves. if more people (the public) made a fuss about the things such as the Metro , then the council maky get there ass in agear. if would also be nice if the media , evening mail/birmingham post, were more active , like the manchester evening news

...and then take a look at counties where government works, the scandinavian countries are the best example....

I read yesterday that the Norwegian government is expecting to lose the next election because everything is going so well there that people are bored and fancy a change!!! Hilarious :rofl:

That would be nice to experience here... :)

if only ;)

it happened in 97. torries weren't doin a bad job.
After 17years and a good pr campaign by labour a change was made

Now with the so called height restrictions relaxed and the council encouraging developers to build taller, do you think there could be a return of the possibility of seeing the "skyhouses" in Eastside... :dunno: more then likely no, but what a site it woudl be to see a few of these in our eastern quarter :(

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/117SkyhouseComestoBirmingham_pic1.jpg

[QUOTE=birminghamculture]Now with the so called height restrictions relaxed and the council encouraging developers to build taller, do you think there could be a return of the possibility of seeing the "skyhouses" in Eastside... :dunno: more then likely no, but what a site it woudl be to see a few of these in our eastern quarter :(


What the heck is that bloke doing with his legs?

I think the person with the dog is supposed to jump over it.

The RRP website has been updated. most of it we have seen but there are some more visuals and details on the library which I hadn't seen before.
http://www.rrp.co.uk/render.aspx?siteID=1&navIDs=1,4,24,257,260

Went past Heathrow T5 yesterday and it will a fantastic building for London and the UK. I hope that when it's finished our current city leaders will pass through it and think of how they resisted the new library and the years lost. They should be fighting to fund this.

Front page of the Post on Saturday had the cost consultantants Gardner Theobald saying again recommending the Eastside RRP building again and saying that a split site is the worst option. Threw the paper away and the article didn't show on ICBirmingham

We need this prestigious building.

It looks fantastic - we can't let it go!

Well I can but agree, but just think of the costs of a split site, two site mangers, two teams of support staff, two staff rooms! Only an ejiot would suggest a split site.

I think it might be all a con - maybe the council know something we don't.

Let's speculate that the office space for Birmingham will be adequate with the dawn of Peat House, the new Post & Mail, Arena Central, Eastside, Martineau Galleries, Baskerville House, the new Natwest Tower, the new Chamber of Commerce, the replacement for Edgbaston Shopping Centre and the redevlopment of Five Ways Shopping Centre (that sounds an awful lot of space!) - there will be no requriement for Paradise Circus.

So, the council rules out Eastside, and even though they know there is no demand for Paradise Circus, they express a desire to redevelop it. Then they suggest a split-ste library. Public outcry, so they say "we are listening to what you say - we will sell part of Paradise Circus (the Birmingham Conservatoire) for office space and we'll use the money to refurbish the existing library". The public is happy.

Now looking at the bigger picture, we are left with a library that the majority of the public don't like, having had the prospect of an amazing building in Eastside taken away from us, yet we're grateful for it!

Cunning eh?

Ooh, you're soo cynical!

Hmm.. sounds like you know what you're talking about though...

I went through that Fletchers Walk last time I was in Birmingham, it was 'orrible, stupid design, with a pointless little park no one can get to, half the shops were shut too, but it wasn't nice when they were there. Cutting off access to Broad street, and the whole Mailbox area from the town hall.

And the Library cuts off access to Summer Row, in short the whole site is BAD 60s architecture, not the worst, but as much of that is gone, it's getting more apparent that it's a disaster, in a ergonomic sense, and they're not the pretties things either.

I am a bit cynical, and whilst I don't know that what I suggested is going on, I think I know how politicians work...

I want the Eastside option period, but if that is not going to happen at all, then I think a refurbishment is the lesser of 2 evils.

The Conservatoire should go (along with Fletcher's walk) and the road should sorted to provide a pedestrian link from that area by the Conservatoire & Town Hall to the south side of Broad St/Alpha Tower. Remember - the tramlines are due to go along the road by the Town Hall up Broad St so there will be major reconfiguring here.

I think the link bridge between the library & museum should go too, and the back end of the library reall needs sorting - the strange red brick building with the white 'hood' should go as should the Copthorne twins.

The the library needs a major refurb & clad IMO

Of course the Library was going to be clad in portland stone, or something? But they ran out of money?

All sorts Stephen. Now, I don't particularly like the library as a building - my major complaint is that it is in the wrong place - that kind of building would look better fronting Bristol Street or over in Eastside where it can have a good plaza around it...

BUT the original design, had it been fulfilled, might have meant we would feel differently. I believe it was to be clad in stone, with marble inside, and water gardens cascading down from the atrium via the different floors.

It has still got massive interior design problems - it is simply an unplesant building to be in. Who designs a library without access to natural light to read a book by?

You can read my apprasal of the Library as a working building on page 3 of this thread, so keep it short, not user friendly.

Inspiration for library is east of Eastside
Sep 14 2005, Birmingham Post
By Paul Dale, Chief Reporter

Birmingham's new lending and reference library could be based on a building in Norwich designed by the acclaimed architect Lord Norman Foster.

City council leader Mike Whitby said he was seeking inspiration from the Robert Sainsbury Library at the Sainsbury Centre for the Performing Arts, which Lord Foster's partnership designed in 1978.

Coun Whitby (Con Harborne) said the Sainsbury Library was an excellent example of how to construct a building which fitted in harmoniously with adjoining old and modern architecture.

The planned Birmingham lending and reference library is to be built in Centenary Square, next to the 1930s Baskverville House and the modern Repertory Theatre.

Coun Whitby said there would be a design competition for the new library but he held out Lord Foster's work as an example of the type of structure the council would look favourably upon.

But Coun Whitby's unexpected announcement at yesterday's full council meeting was greeted with derision by Labour councillors, who said Birmingham ought to aim higher than Norwich.

Sir Albert Bore (Ladywood), leader of the Labour group, said: "I don't want to belittle Norwich but my aspiration for a library of Birmingham is not based on Norwich. Norwich doesn't have 5,000 people a week going through the doors of its library."

Labour wants the council to drop controversial plans for a split site library - with the lending and reference section in Centenary Square and the archives and family heritage centre at Millennium Point - and revert back to a £180 million design by Lord Richard Rogers for a library at Eastside.

Axing the Rogers design will set back the development of Eastside, according to Sir Albert.

He added: "We don't want to bus people from Centenary Square to Millennium Point. The development of Eastside depends on footfall and 5,000 people a week go into our library."

Sir Albert said he would rather see a design based on Bilbao Library in Spain rather than Norwich.

Coun Ian Ward (Lab Shard End), deputy leader of the Labour group, said: "We are being told we can have a 21st century world class library on a par with the city of Norwich. It is not about Bilbao or Barcelona or Milan, it is about Norwich. That is what we have come to."

Coun Whitby hit back at his critics, condemning them as "Luddites" without vision.

The city archives would, for the first time, all be brought together under one roof at Millennium Point, enabling people to examine historical gems including the diaries of James Watt and Birmingham's other Industrial Revolution pioneers.

Thousands of people would visit the family heritage centre to trace their roots and learn more about the development of Birmingham as a major city in the 19th century, Coun Whitby said.

The council's controlling Conservative-Liberal Democrat coalition ruled out the Lord Rogers Eastside library on cost grounds after local authority officials concluded that it would be impossible to acquire more than £ 100 million of external funding.

The split site option will cost a total of £147 million, with the Centenary Square lending and reference building likely to account for about £100 million.

Coun Whitby issued a warning to Labour not to sabotage the split site scheme.

He added: "I hope no one will go to their connections in the Government and try to deny this city the funding it deserves. I don't want to go cap in hand begging because people have marginalised the citizens of this city."
...

Only piccie I could find of it :\

http://www.lib.uea.ac.uk/webimages/sru1.jpg

Oh, found some more...

http://data.greatbuildings.com/gbc/images/cid_3114261.jpg
http://data.greatbuildings.com/gbc/images/cid_3113826.jpg[img]
[img]http://data.greatbuildings.com/gbc/images/cid_3112459.jpg
http://data.greatbuildings.com/gbc/images/cid_3113100.jpg

Looks alright for a 30 year old building in Norwich.

Good enough for 21st century Brum though...? I don't thbink the council's aiming high enough. They don't have the city's interests at heart.

Blimey - the council don't hang around! They've already released a render for the new library....

http://www.tweekgeek.com/images/cardboard-box-and-Styrofoa.jpg

:bash:

Whitby's getting right on my nerves now ... his taking this city down with him. £147m for a pile of diddly squat. does he not realise that the labour library was gonna be situated right next to Millenium point :bash: they could visit a world class library then go research Birminghams history if they desire it.

It doesnt make sense. Conservative power doesnt make sense let alone a join Lib Dem/Conservative council.

Bring back Labour

Is this Norwich's library?
http://data.greatbuildings.com/gbc/images/cid_3114261.jpg
The same building that Coun Whitby described as "an excellent example of how to construct a building which fitted in harmoniously with adjoining old and modern architecture".

I don't think Whitby understands that Birmingham has to build better than this. Birmingham has to be fantastic in order to get an average report from the London press. If this building was in Birmingham it would be slated as being dull and box-like. A concrete slab, typical of Birmingham.
Birmingham's library has to be faultless otherwise the media will tug at the loose ends and reduce it to another building that is mocked for not being perfect.

god, i dispair, i really do, the fact that the writers of the report said the new liabry was viable, should be enough

the rogers, building is ace, i fear that without this, eastside as a whole could become a a bit of a joke,

maybe we should all e-mail RRP, and ask for them to be more active in pushing the liabry through, well thats what i'm gonna do

£12m park a waste of money, says community Sep 14 2005

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::





Plans by Birmingham City Council to spend £12 million on building a park at Eastside have been attacked as a waste of money by community and faith leaders in Digbeth.

Residents are furious that the local authority is contemplating turning eight acres on the edge of the city centre into finely-mown parkland when, less than half a mile away, an existing park has been allowed to deteriorate into a crimeridden wasteland.

More than 100 people from the local mosque, churches and council flats in Digbeth and Highgate have organised a public meeting tomorrow night to quiz council officials about the future of Highgate Park.

Pawel Ratajczak, a member of the clergy team at St Anne's Parish in Digbeth, said: "In walking distance of our church we already have an existing park - Highgate Park.

"The issue is that park has no resources, not a single piece of playground equipment, yet the council wants to spend £12 million at Eastside. What sense does that make?"

Nitin Varsani, from Young Muslims, said: "There are tons of families who live by the park, but they are poor and working class so are ignored.

The city wants to spend its money on a new park for the people moving into luxury flats and ignore the people who live in the council flats."

Tomorrow's meeting, organised by Birmingham Citizens, is at St Anne's Club, Alcester Street, beginning at 7.30pm.

Birmingham Citizens' spokesman Kirk Nolen said community leaders in Digbeth and Highgate were concerned about recent terrorist acts.

He added: "It is even more important to make concrete gains in quality of life and opportunities in the inner city where young people are susceptible to an extremist message.

"The feeling is that the council wants to build a park for people who will live in luxury flats at Eastside but is ignoring the needs of poorer people in Digbeth."

They can bollocks - I'm not going to sit and eat my lunch in Highgate Park

but they have got a point, surley we should spend money on improving these parks too,

Precisely bio... I can really see all the shoppers and tourists taking a half hour trek to highgate to have a picnic... wankers.

faithgroups. get on my tits, self appointed leaders community leaders speaking for who ??? I hope the council gives them the credit they deserve...non

Whitby to Labour

please dont use your contacts in government to wreck ourplans......even though we have wrecked your far superior plans for the library and are still pissing around with metro, a major transport project.....I hope Labour do wreck there plans, they are wank....the only ray of light is he intends to hold an architectural competition, no doubt this will involve Tory councillors doodling on the back of napkins to see who can draw the funkiest BOX

GRRRR, its too muggy today for this x

I am all for them having a nice park (for all of 10 minutes - then it gets vandalised, syringes everywhere, fly-tipping etc) but what has that got to do with the City Park?

the roblem with spending money in an area like this is that it is likely to get vandalise, a few years back in small heath park, that charlie dimock of the tv came to the park and they created this wonderful area , with benches and fountains, two days later it was destroyed and then repaired, and destroyed again, now that area is locked up and only used for special presentations, BUT no one from the community groups spoke out of this and put it down to the area being poor, these types of area have shows they are undeserving of this type of funding as it just goes to waste ,

I hope it's just sloppy journalsim but worryingly the picture in the paper was of the new Michael Hopkins one (the Forum), not the old Foster one.
http://www.cabe.org.uk/library/casestudy.asp?id=136
http://www.theforumnorwich.co.uk/theforum/explore/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/critic/feature/0,1169,671782,00.html

we should have something of our own not copied from another city

it all just shows the lack of ambition our current leadership have.......

depressing aint it

Fuck sake do these religious ponses not realise that a city park would be looked after much better then a park on the outskirts of a crime ridden shithole, who let it deteriate themselves.

We need a city mayor more then anything now. shut these pilloks up once and for all.

As pointed out in a newspaper article,Birmingham should be trying to emulate the more attractive European cities and not taking its lead from Norwich (I'm sure Norwich is a very nice place though).

Norwich is a nice place, and their railway station is amazing - very grand.

But it is a little city, not a global player.

I might write to Mike Whitby and tell him this in light of that article on the other thread....

I think the people in Highgate have highlighted a very difficult moral dilemma.
It is very hard to justify spending £12'000'000 on a new park when our already-existing parks need just £10'000 for a refurb.
The only justification I can put forward is that the park at Eastside should be a centre-piece and therefore funding should come from the arts & tourism budget. Money should not come from the civic & leisure pot - we should not be pulling investment away from local parks - and I doubt if that's the case.

I agree Steve - the regeneration cash should pay for the park then leisure cash should pay for the running.

Thing is, they will spend money (my money!) doing up Highgate Park, it'll then get trashed, and the really f*****g annoying thing is the local residents will then blame the council for not patrolling the park!!!! (I suspect you might detect that I'm angry about this). When local residents start taking responsibility for their local area then I will fully support the money going to them, but it is money just wasted if they are a) not willing to sit in the park and watch their OWN kids play b) not willing to challenge antisocial behaviour in the park (if they are too frightened then call the police!) and c) not willing to look after the park themselves (i.e. pick their own litter up, report fly-tipping and even do a bit of weeding if necessary).

Many of Birmingham's urban parks are more like wildernesses (the two by me are anyway) - open fields with a football pitch, a small play area and lots of long grass, woods etc. This is all very nice, and they are valuable nature reserves, but they don't feel safe and there seems to be a lack of London-esque parks that are secure, watched over and just nice places to sit and relax. Another problem is access - a lot of parks are accessed via alleyways also making them feel unsafe.

I know London's parks are busy because not many people have gardens, but Birmingham's parks could become the asset they truly are.

I take your point about wasting money on play areas that get vandalised hours after they're opened (one such park opened last month in the black-country and was vandalised the same day).
I believe all communities have the right to get something from the council. But once the council delivers I agree that the community then has to take responsibility for it. So by all means give Highgate a new park, but if it gets trashed they have to join the back of the funding queue and wait until their turn again.

I personally can't see what a lick of paint and a new slide will do for a park. If the area has crime problems and vandalism it needs money for policing, not new furniture.
There were two parks in the area where I grew up (back in the good ol' days :fiddle:), one had a broken slide and the other a single football goal (no net). I was always out there, playing football, cricket, frisbe or just 'tag'. All we needed was a ball and some dry weather.
It felt safe because people were always using the parks and people were always using the parks because if felt safe.
Something's gone wrong somewhere and it's not to do with the lack of facilities.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/critic/feature/0,1169,910919,00.html

an old article bet VERY intresting includes a few words from Rogers himself, one of the best quotes in the article, is that without the libary the eastside projetc will fall

BTW love HRH description of the existing libary!!

If anyone has a view, either on what a modern library should comprise or the right location for it, the Overview and Scrutiny Committee would like to hear from them. Individuals should send their views to Katie Trout, Scrutiny Office, The Council House, Victoria Square, Birmingham, B1 1BB or email Katie.Trout@birmingham.gov.uk no later than 23rd September.

BOSTON TOWN HALL

http://libraries.mit.edu/rvc/kidder/kjpegs/C2022-034.jpg

http://libraries.mit.edu/rvc/kidder/kjpegs/C2022-037.jpg

It looks quite the same.

Lovely bit of efflorescence on the brickwork there...

If anyone has a view, either on what a modern library should comprise or the right location for it, the Overview and Scrutiny Committee would like to hear from them. Individuals should send their views to Katie Trout, Scrutiny Office, The Council House, Victoria Square, Birmingham, B1 1BB or email Katie.Trout@birmingham.gov.uk no later than 23rd September.

have done mate, she even replied back x

If anyone has a view, either on what a modern library should comprise or the right location for it, the Overview and Scrutiny Committee would like to hear from them. Individuals should send their views to Katie Trout, Scrutiny Office, The Council House, Victoria Square, Birmingham, B1 1BB or email Katie.Trout@birmingham.gov.uk no later than 23rd September.

And me - and yes, she wrote back! Nice to see someone listens, even if she deletes the email :)

New college - or is it Starship Enterprise? Sep 16 2005







Matthew Boulton's new city centre college opened its doors for the start of term this week. Education Correspondent Shahid Naqvi took a look round the £40 million complex...





Grand sweeping steps lead up to automatic doors at the entrance.

Inside the pastille-coloured spacious foyer there is a row of lifts, a smart reception desk, and a stairway leading up to a plaza area with, among other things, a bistro-bar.

No, we are not inside a new hotel, but a college. Matthew Boulton's new £40 million college in Jennens Road.

To city centre workers the location, on land bought from Aston University adjacent to its campus, has been a landmark building site for the last two years.

This week its doors finally opened and a key part of the Eastside redevelopment jigsaw that will see that part of the city turn into a bustling learning quarter was put in place.

In truth, the hotel feel was slightly spoilt by the hoards of excited students gathered around the entrance area wearing baggy jeans and trainers. But nevertheless, the new college does offer a learning facility the likes of which Birmingham - or indeed any town or city - has not seen before.

There cannot, for instance, be many colleges that include an operating theatre, six doctor surgeries, a job centre, 350-seater performance hall, conference rooms, nursery and fully equipped gym.

For principal Christine Braddock - who took over the college when it was based in its old building in Sherlock Street, Balsall Heath, six years ago and when spiralling debts threatened closure - it marks a personal triumph.

"When I arrived the first instruction I got was to close down the college because it was in a financial mess at the time," she said.

"In the last five years what the college has done is prove itself. It has got rid of its debt and it has doubled its income. We have gone from strength to strength because of the quality of the teaching and learning here.





"With this new building we have made a significant difference for the people of Birmingham. To feel we have cemented its future with a facility like this is a dream come true."

The eight-storey building is the second biggest single spend in further education in the UK.

Each level of the college is designed to cluster specific curriculum areas. All classrooms are equipped with modern IT facilities and staff are issued with mobile computers.

When fully running, some 15,000 full-time and part-time students will study within its 18,000 sq metre confines.

The building boasts some of the most impressive views of the city centre and beyond and its interior decor has been thought out to give it a bright, professional feel.

Walking around, one has the feel of being inside a blue chip company or, at times, even the Starship Enterprise.

"The ambience of a building is crucial to how people treat it and look after it," said Ms Braddock, who enjoys a roofside terrace outside her eighth-floor office.

"We spent a lot of time looking at colour schemes to create an environment that would make people want to be here.

"We do a lot of work with the business and professional sector, so I wanted to ensure that any organisation from KPMG to Eversheds would be comfortable. We probably have some of the best conferencing facilities in the city."

Among the new college's first arrivals this week, the buzz of excitement was palpable as they entered the reception area.

Some of them were returning veterans from the old building, but others were entering college for the first time in a very 21st century learning environment.

Among the flow of human traffic were workmen carrying boxes making final deliveries.

And next week the six GPs, who will treat students as well as people from the local area, move in. The future of Matthew Boulton College looks very healthy indeed.

I liked the new MB site, now all they need is a Library around there!

BTW what's happening at the old Sherlock Street site?

I liked the new MB site, now all they need is a Library around there!

BTW what's happening at the old Sherlock Street site?

Is that the Bristol Road one?

It's going to be knocked down - I suspect it may form part of the Tesco application.

I think there is a landmark building earmarked by the council but don't know whether Tesco is planning one.

Unless Tesco is the landmark building... "yes, over the traffic lights and we are in the road second left after Tesco..."

the old sherlock street site is owned by AWM and is seperate to the Tesco scheme, they are planning a gateway development....but as anything involving the Government, dont hold your breath ;)

Cheers for that Brum2003 - nice to see Tesco haven't got their grubby mitts on everything...

What should go there do we reckon?

I would say a swanky 'V' shaped office block - perfect for people who want a city office but need to be able to hit the road pretty quickly (you know - they have reps and the like).

That's not the Glass Spiral thingy is it? Different "Landmark" Building?

Is that the same "Landmark" that gets attached to "building" in the way "Pro" was stuck onto "Active" a few years back?

Unless Tesco is the landmark building... "yes, over the traffic lights and we are in the road second left after Tesco..."
Whatever happened to navigating by pubs?
'Landmark' is another over-used phrase, like 'iconic' and 'luxury apartments' (aka flats).

Whatever happened to navigating by pubs?


They keep changing their bastard names these days.

Or getting knocked down,

RIP dear Founders :(

a huge tower block :0 shaped like a dildo ;)

How about a giant turd scuplture of Mr Whitby :dunno:

how about mr whitby sat on a giant dildo eating turd x

KWEL!

now that is what I call a landmark! One to stick it to the Mancs! Arf!

how about mr whitby sat on a giant dildo eating turd x

And this is why we should be on the council, new landmark finalised in a few short minutes ;)

Just gotta find the contractors now :hahaha: Jeremy ClarksoN

a huge tower block :0 shaped like a dildo ;)

Barcelona officially opened their dildo building this morning.Click link then go to the right of the page and click fotogaleria.There are about seven photos.It's the third tallest in the city and is causing quite an impact.Brilliant lighting.
http://www.elpais.es/

More on the park business.

Council 'ignores old park' whilst splashing out on new Sep 16 2005
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The council came under fire last night for neglecting an inner city community while vowing to spend millions on a park less than half a mile away.

Families from Highgate said they were disgusted at the local authority for failing to renovate their local park despite announcing plans for a £12 million flagship scheme nearby at Eastside.

At an emergency meeting in Highgate last night, the community group Birmingham Citizens said their park had become a waste ground used only by drug dealers.

They called on the city to rid the area of graffiti and renovate the park for the local community to use.

Residents also condemned local councillors who failed to attend the gathering at St Anne's Club in Alcester Street.

Rev Ken Thorson, of St Anne's Catholic Church, said: "We are hoping to get the city council to take responsibility for the public space in our area. The park is in such a state of repair for many people who want to use it. When we saw proposals to spend £12 million on a non-existent park we thought there was a huge problem here."

Tonie Fox, who has lived in Highgate for 40 years, described how the park had changed. "It has gone from a beautiful park to a dumping ground, a waste land which is badly equipped and Birmingham City Council has ignored it. It used to have swings and roundabouts until the council took them away. It had a beautiful bowling green - the best in Birmingham and tennis courts.

"There was also a beautiful hedge, which was about 100 years old, but that was removed by the council to try and get rid of drug dealers."

The residents are calling for a play area, basketball and football pitch and jogging track to be installed in the park. A spokesman for the District Director Jacqueline Branch said she would meet with residents to try and address their concerns.

Inspector Tim Bacon said high visibility patrols were already taking place in the area to try and clampdown on drug dealers and anti social behaviour.

Barcelona officially opened their dildo building this morning.Click link then go to the right of the page and click fotogaleria.There are about seven photos.It's the third tallest in the city and is causing quite an impact.Brilliant lighting.
http://www.elpais.es/



Now where have i seen that before......?

I find it dumbfounding that we are even going through this process but we have to. If you want the chance to enjoy this magnificent building and maybe even a coffee on the roof then I urge anyone who hasn't to register their views with the Overview and Scrutiny Committee.

If you're looking for inspiration there's some good stuff on here (http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/GenerateContent?CONTENT_ITEM_ID=64881&CONTENT_ITEM_TYPE=0&MENU_ID=5384) about the Library including the reasons why a Baskerville and a split site shouldn't be adopted.

IMO this is too important a building to lose.

So as Pirlo said "If anyone has a view, either on what a modern library should comprise or the right location for it, the Overview and Scrutiny Committee would like to hear from them. Individuals should send their views to Katie Trout, Scrutiny Office, The Council House, Victoria Square, Birmingham, B1 1BB or email Katie.Trout@birmingham.gov.uk no later than 23rd September." That's tomorrow :)

http://tinypic.com/dxcjdh.jpg

http://tinypic.com/dxcm4w.jpg

Wouldn't that be nice!

the city's leadership have not got the balls to build it

I've only just noticed the little pub on the corner - being sheltered by the library. Aww....

That's the Woodman Pub isn't it? I just wish another use could be found for such a fantastic building, such as performing arts / drama / leisure / gyms / small businesses.

and have you noticed Curzon Organist building in the foreground too

this is gotta be built, i'm optomistic

I'm still hoping. Its too big an opportunity for the city to miss, to have a genuine World Class building people will come to admire and use that isn't a shopping centre and that is open to everyone. Quality spaces shouldn't just be there for wealthy people who can afford to go to places like Selfridges and the soon to be built Cube.

It's a building designed to do its job in the best way possible, unlike the current library and i suspect any other half measure the current council seams to want to give us.

http://tinypic.com/dz895f.jpg

That's the Woodman Pub isn't it? I just wish another use could be found for such a fantastic building, such as performing arts / drama / leisure / gyms / small businesses.


Are you saying theres a better use for a building than that of the procument of BEER?

makes u wana cry

The current situation seems to me to be a total disgrace on all parties, Tories/Lib Dems and Labour. Its all down to people playing party politics at the expense of Birmingham Residents. Firstly we have the Rogers idea chucked out because of money problems, fair enough, but disappointing. Then we get this split scheme. Then we hear stories that Labour cllrs are going to their cronies in the government to try and sabotage the scheme by blocking the funding! Now we are left with the prospect of a 'no frills box'. I say take all the proposals and put them to a local referendum. If the residents choose to build the most expensive and the Council goes into financial meltdown, so be it, its what the people wanted!
My advice to Mr Whitby is for the sake of The Birmingham Conservative Party(i say this as a generally conservative voter), and more importantly the people of Brum, is to resign ASAP!!!!

Are you saying theres a better use for a building than that of the procument of BEER?

I meant the Library building Stevey.
In today's Post the story about the Organists pulling out of the Curzon Station building - looks like the monkey's Mike Whitby!

I did not see that. They are pulling out of the Curzon Street Station Plan?
If this is the case, more reason for Whitby to stand down ASAP!

Pulling out of the Curzon Station! that's just fucking great :mad2:

It's not on the icbrum website today - it's still yesterday's news - typical Post! I think the Organists were put off by the £ millions shortfall, but the council might go the extra mile for the relocation for the Organists.

It's not on the icbrum website today - it's still yesterday's news - typical Post! I think the Organists were put off by the £ millions shortfall, but the council might go the extra mile for the relocation for the Organists.
No offence but is the re-location of the organists anything we should be breaking our necks over anyway?....reminds me of when The D'Oyley Carte Opera Company relocated to Birmingham, amongst great fanfare in the early 90's....We gave great subsidies, and when they were reduced they pissed off somewhere else...no fuckin loyalty to anywhere, just where their last subsidy comes from...are the organists such a prestigious coup? I dont think so...

yeah but a fantastic building would have been put to use and now its gonna just slowly rot away

yeah but a fantastic building would have been put to use and now its gonna just slowly rot away
I seriously doubt it will rot away. Especially given the redevelopment of Eastside. This place will flower...you'll see.... :)

http://tinypic.com/e7gn4x.jpg

http://www.associated-architects.co.uk/files/RCO,doc.pdf
http://www.rco.org.uk/

I seriously doubt it will rot away. Especially given the redevelopment of Eastside. This place will flower...you'll see....

but thats just the problem eastside is taking so long, this is the second project now lost there along with the fantastic libary, which may hopefully get built

funny that in opposition the lib dems and tories opposed the organist move...and now they are not coming, much like the library and the tram.....they seem to be taking years to destroy any good labour did, without doing anygood themselves

birminghams fucked as they will be in power a long time

Did they? Do you know on what grounds they did that. It seems a bit weird, as for the tram i think they were right to question them running through the city streets, but thats a different story.

well have just come back from Zurich and there were trams everywhere, and no problem with them in the city streets ? why should this be a problem in Birmingham and nowhere else in the world ?

its a problem in birmingham because we have got such short sighted leaders

A, im not a fan of street running metro's, i dont like cables clutering up nice views.
b, its a pointless idea, eg take the idea to run it to the Airport. We already have a rail line doing that!
c,it will take more capacity of the roads
d, its just a prestiege scheme, and example of 'northism' , Manchester has one so we must to.
E, the council were elected with the commitment to look at the underground option, and they kept their promise, turned out to be useless, but they kept their promise.

Also forgot,
they are ugly as hell, poorly designed, poor ride quality........
Oh and they are very noisey when running on the road

not keen on them then pete

no not really lol

Taking the Airport line. What really is the point?
It would be much cheaper for centro to fund a new or refurbished train, that run frequently, non stop to Birmingham International, specifically designed for air travellers, eg, extra space for suitcases. Our own version of the Heathrow Express even.
http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/heathrow/images/heathrow1.jpg

Taking the Airport line. What really is the point?
It would be much cheaper for centro to fund a new or refurbished train, that run frequently, non stop to Birmingham International, specifically designed for air travellers, eg, extra space for suitcases. Our own version of the Heathrow Express even.


To get the capacity to do that would involve doubling up the heavy rail to Birmingham International - in itself a good idea, but fiendishly expensive!

SOOOOOOOOO is Eastside going ahead all of it, that is the awe-inspiring libary well I do FUCKING hope so

It'll be interesting to see how the polish up this 'River' in Eastside.Anybody know how wide it gets in south Birmingham?

£1.2m to clean up River Rea Oct 17 2005
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::.


A MILLION pound makeover is underway in Northfield to clean up the River Rea.

Severn Trent Water is investing £1.2 million to fit special overflow chambers to filter out waste and debris before it reaches the river.

The overflow chambers prevent the sewer system from becoming overwhelmed by the volume of water they need to cope with during heavy downpours.



Work is already underway in Church Lane, where the road is closed between Middlemore Road and Abbeydale Road, and in Mill Lane, where the road is closed between Quarry Lane and Greenslade Croft. Local diversions are in place.


Bill Lilly, the water company's field operations manager, said: "We're committed to improving the environment as well as protecting our customers from the inconvenience of flooding.


"The work we're doing will keep rubbish out of the river, which is great news for water quality, plants and wildlife who make their home in the area."

It's narrower in South Brum - it runs from the Waseley hills (I believe) through south Brum, up through Edgbaston (Cannon Hill Park), though Digbeth/Eastside and then on to the Tame. It would probably look wider in Digbeth were it not so heavily culverted.

i sense a gathering momentum behind this now

What on Earth is going on Mr Whitby? Oct 18 2005




By Paul Dale, Chief Reporter


A Birmingham cabinet decision to build a split-site city library was based on deficient information and did not properly take into account financial implications and likely building costs, a highly critical inquiry has found.

In a 174-page report scrutiny committee report senior councillors are accused of rushing a decision on the library without considering the full facts.

The report raises a number of questions about the suitability of a library on two sites - with the lending and reference section at Centenary Square and an archive and family history centre at Millennium Point - which it says could prove to be more expensive and less user-friendly than a £180 million single-site library at Eastside.



Story continues




The cabinet is also accused of "defying common sense" by failing to ask consultants who advised on the ditched Eastside library to examine the financial case for a split-site solution.


A central recommendation of the scrutiny inquiry is that the consultants, who said the Eastside scheme by Lord Richard Rogers represented the lowest financial contribution by the council, should be asked to examine the split-site option.


The committee found that a crucial cabinet meeting in July, which decided to go ahead with the split-site option, had a report before it which did not "provide information in a sufficiently rounded form to ensure that comparisons could be made."


The scrutiny report went on: "We have to say that our review has reinforced our original judgment. Indeed, officers have openly acknowledged that the two centre option emerged so late in the day that it was inevitable that its supporting information was well short of that available for other options.


"They did not see this as a problem. We do. The cabinet should not be taking decisions without the full facts before them."


The scrutiny report concludes that the Centenary Square site proposed for the lending and reference library, between Baskerville House and the Repertory Theatre, would only be large enough for a 24,000 sq metre building. Extending to the rear, over Cambridge Street, would involve a pedestrian bridge over the road. "This does not seem to be a realistic option at this time."


The committee report raises several issues for the cabinet which it says must be addressed before the council proceeds with the split-site scheme:


* How robust is the estimated £42 million cost of the archives and family heritage centre at Millennium Point since no specific floor plan or design is available?


* Information about the design and costings of the split-site option is not detailed enough to dispel most people's "instinctive reaction" that one building must be cheaper than two.


* What chances are there that squeezing a building in between Baskerville House and the Rep would provide the scope for making it cutting-edge or even iconic?


Contributions from members of the public to the scrutiny committee were overwhelmingly in favour of either refurbishing and extending the existing Central Library or of proceeding with the Eastside library designed by Lord Richard Rogers.

More questions than answers in library inquiry Oct 18 2005




By Paul Dale, Chief Reporter


Anyone familiar with four years of twists and turns surrounding Birmingham's ambition to build a library fit for the 21st century will not be remotely surprised at the central conclusion of a comprehensive scrutiny inquiry.

A cross-party committee of councillors, after spending weeks poring over reports and quizzing those most closely involved with the project, decided that they could not reach a decision. There were more questions than answers.

The aims of the scrutiny investigation were clear enough - to ensure that the options for a Library of Birmingham were specified in a similar, comparable and sufficient degree of detail to enable a properly informed decision to be taken.



Story continues





* What do you think? We want know - get in touch by email, messageboard or feedback form *


The picture that emerges from the scrutineers' work is of a lack of accurate financial costings and an absence of any real information about how the split-site library would work. Nor was there any conclusive evidence to explain why the council cabinet decided to drop the Eastside Lord Rogers library scheme.


The 174-page scrutiny report provides plenty of ammunition for those who believe the cabinet system of local government places too much power in the hands of too few individuals and would like to see a return to a committee structure.


"We were immediately struck by the surprising lack of clarity which existed about various proposals," the report begins.


There are other killer quotes, suggesting a surprising absence of detail upon which to base one of the most important decisions taken so far by the Conservative-Liberal Democrat coalition: "What was to be the intended form of the unit at Eastside in the two centre option? What would be the quality of the build? Would this be a completely separate building from Millennium Point, an extension of Millennium Point or would the content be housed in Millennium Point? Could all these alternatives really have the same cost?


"What was the planned size of the new library? Different sizes were regularly referred to. What was the likely cost of the scheme? Again, different costs could be quoted......it was not immediately obvious to us how the cost given in the cabinet report of July 2005, of £42 million for the archive and history centre had been arrived at."


The most far-reaching point to be made by the scrutiny committee, however, is contained in a question to which there appears to be no obvious answer.


Why, given the detailed work by Gardiner & Theobald, Gleeds and Jura on the original options for a new library, including the Rogers scheme, did the cabinet not ask the same consultants to examine the split- site proposal?


Such an examination ought to be put in place immediately, according to the scrutiny committee.


Will the cabinet dare to ask the experts? Don't hold your breath.

oh dear, it's not turning out to be a good week for Witby. Yesterday the Metro and today the library.

Thank fuck things look like they are happening now

I'm so happy the Rogers library is being considered again, and seesm to be the better option in most peoples eyes. It's a beautiful building that would push birmingham forward, like the nia/icc etc. It's the only way the eastside dream can be realised, so the fuckers better build it. :D

yawn christ so all this bullshit is still going on ! what is it with Birmingham ? Arena Cental and the library yawn ! oh and the metro yawn

"Yawn yawn fucking wake up they've built AC and the Libary"

"Fuck me"

After delays after delyas Arena Central Tower and Rogers Libary is laying the last peice of the structure of the building. Eventually Birmingham is placed as a mojor World City that is famous and infamous for many-a-reaseons. The 10th largest Libary in the world is planned to be open next year followed shortly by AC. This exciting hour is displayed by supporters of theese projects.

oh dear, it's not turning out to be a good week for Witby. Yesterday the Metro and today the library.

Thank fuck things look like they are happening now

I disagree i think its probably his best week. You only learn from your mistakes. It might just bring him and the council back down to earth with one almighty thud, and then they can get on delivering not only good, value for money, public services but good, value for money, regeneration projects that you would expect from a good conservtive council.

yes but will they learn or just carry on in the high handed, arrogant and completely ineffectual way they have so far ?

my bet is they will carry on regardless

http://www.nostalgiacentral.com/images_movie/carryonregardless_01.gif
lol

Onlyy time will tell, but i think they will learn their lessons

Good carry on Reduardless I would if I was an MP

posted by usherling "Yawn yawn fucking wake up they've built AC and the Libary"

"Fuck me"

After delays after delyas Arena Central Tower and Rogers Libary is laying the last peice of the structure of the building. Eventually Birmingham is placed as a mojor World City that is famous and infamous for many-a-reaseons. The 10th largest Libary in the world is planned to be open next year followed shortly by AC. This exciting hour is displayed by supporters of theese projects.

lol usherling for forumer of the year ! :) :cheers:

WAHEH I know Thank You my friend I am in a dilema tough who to invite to the party

hmmmm *The Queen or Zenith Queen or Zenith Queen or Zenith erm i'll have Zenith fuck the Queen* :cheers:

lol good choice ! may i suggest we invite the council, change our dates repeatedly, spend all the petty cash on rubbish... then cancel on them at the last minute ? !! lets do it !!!!!!!!

PARTEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !
:cheers:

Scrutiny report on the Library (http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/Media/Library%20Report%20Final%20Public.pdf?MEDIA_ID=111236&FILENAME=Library%20Report%20Final%20Public.pdf).

Pg 56 We may see paradise circus masterplans sooner rather than later and I spotted that Edgbaston has been Idenified as not having a local library. Looks like it's going to get one :)

Pg 52, 53 are good ones and it's intresting to see where they had been to visit pg 100 & 101

I'm about to read it, what you've said seems great news, absolutely great.

And Yes I am in full support of your proposal Zenith. so let's PARTEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

can i say a big thank you to all those that wrote to the comiteee adress that i provided, we may still get this libary yet

We will get this libary or, or we'll all kill Tony Blair slobber chops Prescot and kill the whole of the Labour party and then WAHEH *
Long Live the Tories, Long Live the Tories, Long Live David Cameron*

It looks like Eastside may be taking another step forward according to the Post.

In the business section there is an article on 'Eastside Technology Park' and 'Learning and Leisure' - the land has been bought by AWM and they are in negotiations with BCC to take it forward.

Masterplan by LDA Design and circa £100m. The buildings are behind Millennium Point and look pretty funky!

One sketch also shows what it would look like around MP with an Expo there! Mathinks someone may have been reading our threads ;)

I'll let Foxy scan them in as he did a better job then I last time ;)

Eastside technology site could create 8,500 jobs

Oct 20 2005

By Steve Pain, Deputy Business Editor


A new technology park and learning and leisure project could create some 8,500 new jobs in the Birmingham area.

Regional development agency Advantage West Midlands has been purchasing land around the site in Eastside for several years and is now in negotiations with Birmingham City Council over how the scheme will be taken forward.

It is expected the £100 million scheme will create some 23,000 learning opportunities.


Story continues Continue story

Speaking at AWM's annual conference today in Coventry, chief executive John Edwards (right) will say: "This first look at what this vital part of Eastside will be like is an important milestone.

"A great deal of work has, and will continue, to take place behind the scenes to make this world-class development happen.

"Building on the already emerging emphasis on learning and technology in this part of Birmingham will help to create a great piece of city for generations to come."

The project involves the creation of a world class technology and learning-driven extension to the area, which incorporates Millennium Point, the New Technology Institute and the recently opened Matthew Boulton College, also linking in with the proposed City Park.

The masterplan for the scheme has been drawn up by LDA Design. Meanwhile, Mr Edwards will also tell the conference that the landmark Fort Dunlop building in Birmingham will soon be back in productive use after 25 years of neglect.

"Work on regenerating The Fort is already past the halfway stage so that a visible symbol of neglect which has held back Birmingham's image as a city in renaissance is banished once and for all," he will say.

The building will feature an iconic hotel, plus commercial and leisure development.

It looks like Eastside may be taking another step forward according to the Post.

In the business section there is an article on 'Eastside Technology Park' and 'Learning and Leisure' - the land has been bought by AWM and they are in negotiations with BCC to take it forward.

Masterplan by LDA Design and circa £100m. The buildings are behind Millennium Point and look pretty funky!

One sketch also shows what it would look like around MP with an Expo there! Mathinks someone may have been reading our threads ;)

I'll let Foxy scan them in as he did a better job then I last time ;)
I'm afraid you going to have to do it. I left my job last week :) so I don't see the paper anymore

Are you unemployed now Foxtrot? :( But you seem happy! :)

Here we go - poor quality (had to get the file size down) but you get the idea.

Right hand sketch is the Expo one, left is the masterplan.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a264/Biosonic/Eastside.jpg

Now look what you've made me do. I gone and bought the paper now! Yeah I left my job last week. If I stayed any longer I think I would have re-enacted that Falling Down film with Michael Douglas! I'm going freelance and working the Birmingham A&D community instead, either that or I'll run for Mayor :)

http://tinypic.com/es7nzb.jpg

http://tinypic.com/es7pcx.jpg

wow thank god this scheme is finaly moving

He he he...

Freelancer eh? :)

Foxy for Mayor!

That i'll be very good, I like this I really like this, a step forward for a true Masterplan "Eastside". I can't wait for this to get the first NO.
*You can't build it* The dolled up MP said with a hiss.
*Fuck Off I'm fucking building it* the woman get's out her handbad and begins wacking the MP her eyes and intentions full of rage.
*Go fuck yourself, this is getting build you miserable fucker*

jesus you okay

Thanks for the images.

i thought the square in front of millenium point was an integral part of the councils visions for the park ???

I think two agencies are developing projects here and not communicating ? this scheme was due to have been launched 4 minths ago but the council and AWM fell out over the scheme !!!

Another case of BCC stalling major projects ?

Hair pulling out

It looks like it'll urbanate the area, for there is some mid-rises in the area. Is there any more renders that show us the project as a whole. A website would be great. Tar

I am slightly concerned that the Expo site is the very same one proposed for the Tate tower! I hope I'm wrong but to my mind things don't look promising for this distinctive tower

I hope the Tate Tower goes ahead, if it does not then well my faith in this Council is diminished altogether

noticed some intresting library views from the public in the scrutiny report (http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/Media/Library%20Report%20Final%20Public.pdf?MEDIA_ID=111533&FILENAME=Library%20Report%20Final%20Public.pdf) on pages 36-43

2.14.34 was me hurrah :) anyone else in there?

I rather like 2.5.8, stuff about knowing the difference between cost, and value...

Also, what's all this talk about it not being city centre? The old one was at the end of the city before they redevoploed down Broadstreet, the city centre has Grown, and will grow again to include Eastside, esp. when they build the library there, and as someone said it's no further away from the Bullring than the present one.

For the love of Cliff Richard is a city (and that's just encluding the city, nevermind the catchment area) of almost a Million people!

I am slightly concerned that the Expo site is the very same one proposed for the Tate tower! I hope I'm wrong but to my mind things don't look promising for this distinctive tower

But what a great centrepiece for an expo - Tate Birmingham?

And the expo is merely a suggestion (albeit a very fitting one for this city of innovation and industry).

noticed some intresting library views from the public in the scrutiny report (http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/Media/Library%20Report%20Final%20Public.pdf?MEDIA_ID=111533&FILENAME=Library%20Report%20Final%20Public.pdf) on pages 36-43

2.14.34 was me hurrah :) anyone else in there?

Nice work Foxtrot :) I am 2.14.30 !

Well, I didn't see a single positive comment about the split-site option!

So, in terms of public opinion, it is Central Library v. Eastside Library.

Wonder who'll win?

I don't understand the opinions of people who say "it should be for ordinary people" though. It is for ordinary people, and to me they are saying "we are not worthy of a grand building". Our municipal architecture should outshine private architecture.

I've just read most of that report, (busy day at work..!) and anyone who still suggests a split site is an arse of the highest rank!

And yes, you can quote me on that one.

I've just read most of that report, (busy day at work..!) and anyone who still suggests a split site is an arse of the highest rank!

So there :)

I don't see what is problem there shouldn't be Central Libary vs Eastside it is most worrying that. We should build the Libary as a development of Eastside. Eastside will is a huge ambition for Birmingham and we deserve all that is proposed for Eastside, (that is good). I don't see how or why there is rivalry between the two Central Libary is a part of Eastside.

cost for example

oh fucking no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


In Thursday's Birmingham Post

Nov 2 2005



Leaders of Birmingham City Council have privately signalled their intention to press ahead with controversial plans for a split-site library, effectively sidelining a highly critical scrutiny report.

Senior cabinet members are understood to have ordered work to proceed as quickly as possible on developing the business case for the £147 million scheme - which involves building a lending and reference library at Centenary Square and a family history and archive centre at Millennium Point.

A project manager is to be appointed with a remit to do everything possible to deliver the split-site option for the council.

The move finally puts paid to hopes of resurrecting a £180 million proposal for a Library of Birmingham at Eastside by the acclaimed architect Lord Richard Rogers.

***


Story continues Continue story
ADVERTISEMENT

Controversial proposals to exhume Shakespeare's body to find out exactly how he died have been rubbished by a Midlands vicar.

Rev Martin Gorick, of Holy Trinity Church in Stratford-upon-Avon where the Bard is buried, said US experts hoping to dig up his body, to determine whether he was murdered by his son-in-law, have not approached the church - even though permission is needed from officials to go ahead with the plans.

He said the scientists thought they only needed the permission of Shakespeare's living descendents to carry out the work, but no such family members exist as the family line died out years ago.

***

Tony Blair has been told he is not doing enough to help former Rover workers by a Birmingham MP.

Labour MP Richard Burden, whose Northfield constituency includes Longbridge, issued the blunt warning in the House of Commons.

The Prime Minister pledged to make sure sacked workers received help, but made no specific promises of any extra aid.

More than 3,000 people who either worked for Rover or for the car giant's suppliers had already been found new jobs, he said.

***

Pupils in the West Midlands are being crammed into classes of 45 to ensure teachers are given time out for marking and preparing lessons, a union has warned.

The National Union of Teachers says primary schools are splitting classes up and sharing pupils between two others in a bid to adhere to new laws relieving teachers from teaching duties.

With a typical primary class containing 30 children, it means teachers having to cope with an extra 15 pupils during a session, the union claims.

"I have had three or four instances of this brought to my attention," said Brian Carter, Midland regional secretary of the NUT.

That's a terrible move.Roll on next elections.

Are you allowed to vote Nacho?

it might be too late by then they'll have destroyed everything

Are you allowed to vote Nacho?

I can vote (and do)in two cities.My interest in all things urban makes me a building bore in Spain too.I follow local politics and projects in Seville with the same enthusiasm as I do in Birmingham.Twice as many 'alegrias' and twice as many 'decepciones' I can tell you. :)

Beautiful place Seville I was there for a month this Summer Nacho, got some cool pics.

Really!Where did you stay?Where did you go out?Why Seville?

Of course the centre is beautiful but what really interests me at the moment is its underbelly.I've been taking a few photos .I reckon we should rekindle the Birmingham Global Photo thread that MSP introduced last year and start posting new pics.

Leaders of Birmingham City Council have privately signalled their intention to press ahead with controversial plans for a split-site library, effectively sidelining a highly critical scrutiny report.

Senior cabinet members are understood to have ordered work to proceed as quickly as possible on developing the business case for the £147 million scheme - which involves building a lending and reference library at Centenary Square and a family history and archive centre at Millennium Point.

A project manager is to be appointed with a remit to do everything possible to deliver the split-site option for the council.

The move finally puts paid to hopes of resurrecting a £180 million proposal for a Library of Birmingham at Eastside by the acclaimed architect Lord Richard Rogers.

Can they do that? Surely that's political suicide

Wait and see, thats what i say. Gossip, rumour....perhaps. It ofen happens when people get so emotional and attached to things.

I cannot see that this is going ahead. The elections are too close and even if they put a business case together is still might not get the funding. Then they have to purchase the land, get planning permission etc etc and this won't happen before the next election (6 months).

I am guessing that readers of The Post are amongst the most likely to vote, and The Post is doing its utmost to nail Whitby. I think The Mail is having a go too. If Labour get back in or a LibLab alliance happens then I suspect the Library is back on. At least it will be easier to bring the project back to life as it is well developed.

I am moved to write another letter to the Post...

same here another letter,

Can they do that? Surely that's political suicide


No they know that come local election time, the majority of people will vote fon national issues and national personalities,

They won't give a fuck about the metro, the library or regeneration

They know this, so yes they can do exactly what they want and how they want it

I stayed in the Santa Cruz area. A beautiful hotel called Ferdanado III which had a swimming pool on the roof. We went out everywhere a different tapas bar each night (they were all amazing) and went to a bar called CUBA (I think) right on the river front. We did a bit of a tour round, flew into Malaga, train to Bobadilla, train to Ronda few nights there then coach to Seville. Unfortunately most my pics are quite touristy but I'll put a few up on the Birmingham Global photo thread. The best bit was when we stayed in Ronda, got to the hotel, 75 Euros for a room for two, beautiful hotel overlooking the mountains with a pool and a free, serve yourself bar, wine, sherry, beer on draught, soft drinks, coffee whatever you wanted. I was so tired after all the travelling I lay in the sun and fell asleep after 3 drinks. My Mrs was pissed as a fart by the time I woke up.

My feeling is that it doesn't make sense to house the lending library and the archives in separate buildings miles apart.

The people who use the lending library and the people who access the archives are, in many case, the SAME people. So why should they have to drop everything and get a bus to look up information relating to the project they're working on?

The Victorian city fathers understood this. This is why they built the Reference Library and the Central Lending Library next to one another, in Ratcliffe Place. The present City Fathers (or Mothers) obviously don't have the same level of understanding.

I would agree that the present Central Library building is unsuitable, and needs to be replaced. But why not house the whole lot in one building? Would this not be more cost effective?

Or are we going to witness the ultimate dumbing down of the Second City?
Is the library system going to go down the pan that every other municipal enterprise has gone down? We've lost the Corporation Transport system, we've lost the Municipal Bank, we've lost the City of Birmingham Education Committee. There's not much left.

What are we paying our council tax for?



Degsie

Education/Refuse/Environmental services/Parks/Social Services etc etc (many of which the Tories have improved, you can’t deny them that) Also the Fire an the Police take a slice. Not to forget Centro, so they can keep upping their allowances (oh and subsidise public transport apparently). If you want to know why your council tax is ever increasing ask his Tonyness.

Local income tax is the way forward...

for an £8 billion pound schem nothinh much is hapopening at eastside or looks like happening

what do you mean? we've got a t-mobile drive in and a nice patch of grass outside curzon street station.

Grass seed costs a lot now a days you know!

The reason for the slow progress is a toxic chemical store

I'll scan the article tomorrow!

oh we all knew that anyway lol

Birminghamculture! :)

Sorry its late as usual! Completely forgot! Anyway!

http://img428.imageshack.us/img428/7282/hhooupoyrty0xx.jpg

hmmm. notice how there's always something?

This 'something' has been something for quite a while though

We just need to get rid of MacDiarmid - why can't they relocate to Heartlands or something?

Feckin idiots !!!

take your pick ?

Why don't they relocate to Sellafield!

they want money from the council as they know they are in a position of strength, they are holding up major regeneration, the council should use a CPO on their premises, its only 300 jobs, fuck em, that many could have been created by now !!!

who cares where they relocate as long as they go !!!

BCC have updated the Eastside section of the developement pages and there are some lighting workshops going on in Feb which sound good
http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/GenerateContent?CONTENT_ITEM_ID=3102&CONTENT_ITEM_TYPE=0&MENU_ID=1598&EXPAND=1338