Architect chosen for Old Treasury Buildings

A team of leading architects from Perth and interstate has been appointed to redesign the Old Treasury Buildings in the heart of the city.

Housing and Works Minister Francis Logan said local architects Donaldson-Warn, Sandover Pinder, Palassis and Melbourne-based architect Peter Elliott had been selected to produce a redevelopment plan for the prestigious site.

The winning team of architects was chosen from a shortlist of four.

"The architectural team is aware that we want an impressive design which will facilitate public access, after-hours activity, reinvigorate the area and ensure that the new building complements existing structures," Mr Logan said.

"They have suggested the provision of an internal street to improve access through the site and the creation of rich interior spaces to encourage retail, food and beverage outlets.

"Quality design with integrated access to the Town Hall and the surrounding heritage precinct will be a major outcome of the redevelopment.

"Government architect Geoffrey London will oversee all aspects of the development, including working closely with the architects to review the concept design as it is being developed.

"Professor London will chair a design review committee which will ensure the heritage attributes of the Old Treasury Buildings are protected and preserved."

The Minister said the Gallop Government was committed to protecting and enhancing Western Australia's unique lifestyle, including significant heritage sites.

Constructed between 1874 and 1903, the Old Treasury Buildings are among the most important examples of colonial architecture in WA.

Under the Gallop Government's proposal the building would be maintained by a private developer for an agreed period of time, at the end of which full control of the buildings would revert to the State Government.

Professor London, who chaired the evaluation panel, said selecting the successful architect had been a very difficult task.

"The submissions and presentations demonstrated a clear understanding of the historic, civic and commercial aspects of the project and their importance in the broader precinct," the professor said.

"The successful architectural team is an astute combination of complementary skills, which responded best to the criteria in a very sensitive and direct manner."

Professor London said Peter Elliott's participation was seen as an important factor in the selection.

"Apart from excellent presentation to the evaluation panel, it is apparent from his innovative approach to other heritage projects in Melbourne that involvement will be a very positive attribute in achieving a high quality design outcome," he said.

"The team presented a perceptive understanding of and commitment to the heritage context of the site and the relationship the new structure could have with existing heritage buildings."

The design phase of the project will be completed before the end of the year.

The Government expects the scheme to be tendered to the market for redevelopment early in 2006.

are they going to knock down the brown piece of shit office block on hay street??.. I am a bit confused where they will build the office tower. seems like the whole area is taken up with city hall, treasury and the church

im very sure it will be on that vacant site onbarrack st near town hall where the old R&I towers once stood. i wish they were knocking that down. once again the chances of it going are very low as the internals were upgraded to a good standard. f-ing hate it when that happens!

the first of these was chosen-
http://home.iprimus.com.au/roc1/tres.jpg

I assume thats the one by Palassis Architects? Their website doesn't look to inspiring ... Did their plan look okay from the newspaper, the scan is a little hard to see?

http://www.palarc.com.au/

didnt have one in there

Looks like there’s a courtyard in there. Maybe part of the new office component will be built there looking at drawing plan#4?
http://www.liswa.wa.gov.au/wepon/architecture/assets/images/005737d.jpg

the new offices will go there and the R&I towers site.

Can't wait till they bring it back to life!
http://www.liswa.wa.gov.au/wepon/architecture/assets/images/010023P.jpg

Also the proposed Civic Sq at the back of the Treasury building moved a step closer from the last Council meeting. With the facade of the Treasury and the Cathedral, this Square will be something else!.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.pic-an11056765-37-v.jpg
:eek:

once upon a time.

Designs for Old Treasury Buildings released

The State Government today released the initial architectural design for the redevelopment of Perth's historic Old Treasury Buildings in the heart of the city.

The design, by Melbourne-based architect Peter Elliott and local architects Donaldson-Warn, Sandover Pinder and Palassis Architects, was unveiled by Acting Premier Eric Ripper and Housing and Works Minister Francis Logan.

Mr Ripper and Mr Logan welcomed the design and agreed that it represented a very contemporary solution to a difficult heritage project.

"This will become a landmark building that will reinvigorate a part of the city which has become lifeless," Mr Ripper said.

"The design has to assimilate the old with the new - not an easy task, given that the nearby heritage buildings hold a special place in the hearts of all Western Australians.

"But this design will allow the heritage buildings to be fully conserved and re-occupied for the first time in more than 10 years."

Under the State Government's multi-million redevelopment proposal, the Old Treasury Buildings will be refurbished and a new multi-storey office block facing Barrack Street will be constructed.

"I am now more convinced then ever that we will create a fabulous building for Perth," Mr Logan said.

"The proposed redevelopment will facilitate public access through the buildings, encourage after-hours activity and reinvigorate the area."

Mr Logan said it was important that the design of the proposed new office building complemented the existing heritage structures of the Old Treasury Buildings, the Town Hall and the surrounding heritage precinct, including Cathedral Square.

The Minister said the State Government was working with the Perth City Council, the Heritage Council and the Department for Planning and Infrastructure, through a design review committee chaired by the Government Architect, to resolve heritage and planning issues associated with the redevelopment.

"The design concepts are currently very much a work in progress and are therefore subject to ongoing refinement," he said.

"While they do provide for bars, a restaurant, specialty shops, cafés and arcades for pedestrian access as the predominant uses at basement and ground levels, we will continue to work with the City of Perth to address its concerns."

City of Perth councillors have been briefed on the designs and have raised a couple of issues which are currently being re-assessed. These include a greater setback from the Town Hall on Hay Street and no offices on the ground floor of the heritage buildings.

"The State Government will protect and preserve the heritage attributes of the Old Treasury Buildings, constructed between 1874 and 1903, which epitomise colonial architecture in WA," Mr Logan said.

The refurbishment of the Old Treasury Buildings and the construction of the new office building will be funded and maintained by a private developer under a leasehold arrangement.

The State Government is expected to offset the cost by a pre-commitment to lease between 15,000 and 17,000sq.m of office space. Ultimately the redevelopment will revert to the State.

The State Government expects to tender the redevelopment scheme to the market in 2006.

Jaded CBD Rejig

PERTH is attempting to shed its status as one of the dullest cities on the planet with plans for a sweeping architectural revamp of one of its colonial-era buildings - Treasury Place in the centre of the jaded CBD. Architects have been charged with assimilating the 1874 colonial building into a world-class, futuristic design featuring a multi-story office block complete with bars, shops, arcades and cafes.

The Australian, page 4 Tues 20th Dec.

Oh come on it's not that 'dull' :D

Render in todays west, btw. About 10 levels.

anyone wana post renders or do i have to go buy the paper?

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/3081/dsc001843uj.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/5728/dsc001855vp.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Lol now that article in The Australian makes much more sense :P

F#%king awsome. Welcome to mel -- perth?

Waiting for public outcry.....

Looks great but where is all that land they want to build all that on? They talk about tearing down the Law Chambers building because ‘it’s in the way’ for a public plaza just like the old R&I building was …also looking at the pic there, I didn’t think the gap between the Town Hall and the Treasury was that wide?
Anyhow, I say bring it On!! There really shouldn’t be a public out cry because it will be privately funded.
Also Perth CBD may get dull most nights but the same can’t be said for Northbridge.

I like it but it's not all that 'out there'. I think the height of the building should be clear of the town hall spire (32m?) so it doesn't look campus style. The design is also very boxy.

My 2c.

yer i think its a bit boxy to, but fucking awesome !!!

Its nice, not what I expected by the reports... thought it would be a lot more, 'out there'. But its goooooooood.

Long-time reader, first-time poster. Not sure if this will work, but I hope so.

http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/3800/groundfloorplanoldtreasury21io.jpg

http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/3800/groundfloorplanoldtreasury21io.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Juding from those ground floor plans....NO! It has hardly any retail what so ever! I counted only 8 spaces. Unless they are going to go upwards with more retail this isn't going to get my approval.

Welcome Scribbler. Thanks for that!..Do you have any other render pics? :)
The shops close way too early anyhow Mic :P

I personally think it has the ‘wow factor’…love to see much clearer render pics however. I didn’t expect it to be so glassy and all.
Why the hell aren’t render pics posted on the Housing and Works web site!

http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/990/3dcolourimagesoldtreasury27xp.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Why the hell aren’t render pics posted on the Housing and Works web site!


The government....

Welcome to our forum, Scribbler!

Thanks RocStar. Have a few more things, will post shortly.

oooh nice!

Don't suppose you have any elevations you can care?:D

... and thanks Dilaz89!

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/3092/northsouthsectionoldtreasury24.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

9st hmm any idea on the heights? MY estimate is 38m, if its over 40m I can put it on emporis.com under highrise.

http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/1504/precinctplanoldtreasury26pe.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Juding from those ground floor plans....NO! It has hardly any retail what so ever! I counted only 8 spaces. Unless they are going to go upwards with more retail this isn't going to get my approval.

Actually I was reading an article on that Business WA site the other day. And the government said they were still ironing out some of the plans. One of the things they were still pressing for is that there be no offices on the ground floor.

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/4732/barrackstreetelevationoldtreas.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

That's all the images I have. There is another story on page 11 of today's West Australian, with a phone poll asking readers whether they like the plans.

WoW thanx again Scribbler!..Any pics on 140 William st :p
Oh god..phone poll!

The nimbys will come out of hiding now hahaha. I like the plan, just not the current retail provisions.

RocStar ... your wish is my command!

omg, how do u get this stuff?

Refurbishment of theOld Treasury Building



The Old Treasury Building is one of the prime civic buildings in Perth and as such its refurbishment is crucial to the City of Perth ’s aim to activate the central streetscape of Perth and make it more people-friendly.

The City of Perth sees four important underlying principles inherent in the redevelopment of the Old Treasury Building:

1. It should enhance rather than detract from the grand old Perth Town Hall.

2. It should ensure that the building remains an activated building at night rather than closing at 6pm, therefore learning by the mistake of the past whereby the Palace Hotel became a bank.

3. It should open up a once-in-a-century opportunity to create an adjacent “ Cathedral Square ” as a new focal point for people in the city.

4. The additional development required to be constructed above the Treasury Building should be unique in design so that it will enhance this prime heritage precinct.

The Lord Mayor, Dr Peter Nattrass said “With these important aspects in mind, I am delighted that the Minister, Fran Logan, has been so receptive and cooperative in working closely with the City of Perth Council to ensure we have an outcome that the people of Perth can be proud of for the next century.”


http://perth.wa.gov.au/html/org10_.php?title=Refurbishment+of+the+Old+Treasury+Building&date=2005-12-20

RocStar ... your wish is my command!
..You’re a very welcomed forum member :D

Phone 1900 999 341 to support this project, The West poll, if you can be bothered. I lost the vote 'no' number;)

Results of the WestPoll: 62 people approved of the plan, 427 did not approve.

Dammit I voted 2 times, Chris voted 3 or four times!

427 Are just jelous hehe.

Oh Gee what a huge surprise!

OMG , why did they not approve of it, it's not knocking any of the nice bits down is it? they would be heritage listed?

Damn. Stupid NIMBYS! There making Perth look dull.

My bet is a bulk of the population would not be knocking it on the basis of lacking something ie. Design, Retail ect.. But on the basis is is going to impact on to have on the old building. "it doesn't go with old architecture blah blah blah". That is the mentallity most West Australians have and would probably rather a large, grassed area as compared to something that will have a good impact on the CBD and bring some more life to a dull area of town.

LMAO grassed area!!

If you've ever read the letters to the editor in the West Australian Newspaper you'd know that, on the whole, they are nothing but a bunch of whingers. Of course they'd knock back the proposal - but luckily they don't constitute a valid sample of the wider community's beliefs and opinions..

They don't understand that by imposing a clash of style of both new and old creates a contrast between the two that makes them work together. In that they will make each other stand out and define themselves.

If you created a dominating building that just blended in with the surrounding buildings, then the those heritage buildings would loose their impact because they would all seem smaller part of a larger similar theme.

Who gives a fuck what a few nimby's think. Not like the state government will listen they have stated there plans to facelift perth with great architecture and we are seeing the begining. Perths evolution and revolution is begining, with the setback of swan pano the city feels more vibrant and active.

Went to a party on king street on tuesday on the roof of the building near the arts center, four seasons where playing and people stoped in the street and listened.

Ahh i know that place, i'v had many a coffee at the place below that party venue.

sounds exciting :)

It's a perfect location and with a very very urban feel to it. If thats the direction perth is heading in, good times ahead.

Old Treasury plans on display


23/12/05

The high level of interest in the State Government's plans for the redevelopment of Perth's historic Old Treasury Buildings has prompted a display of the plans in the heart of the city.

From today, the initial architectural designs for the buildings will be displayed in the foyer of the Governor Stirling Tower at 197 St George's Terrace.

They can also be accessed on the internet by following the 'Old Treasury Building' link on the Department of Housing and Works website at http://www.dhw.wa.gov.au

The designs by Melbourne-based architect Peter Elliott and local architects Donaldson-Warn, Sandover Pinder and Palassis Architects were unveiled by Acting Premier Eric Ripper and Housing and Works Minister Francis Logan on Monday.

Mr Ripper and Mr Logan welcomed the designs and agreed that they represented a very contemporary solution to a difficult heritage project.

They include the complete refurbishment and restoration of the existing heritage-listed Old Treasury buildings. No significant building will be demolished. A new multi-storey office block facing Barrack Street will also be constructed.

"This will become a landmark building that will reinvigorate a part of the city which has become lifeless," Mr Ripper said.

"This design will allow the heritage buildings to be fully conserved and re-occupied for the first time in 10 years."

"I am now more convinced than ever that we will create a fabulous building for Perth," Mr Logan said.

"The proposed redevelopment will facilitate access through the buildings, encourage after-hours activity and reinvigorate the areas."

The State Government is working with the Perth City Council, the Heritage Council and the Department for Planning and Infrastructure - through a design review committee chaired by the Government Architect - to resolve heritage and planning issues associated with the redevelopment.

Comments on the design can be made clicking on the 'feedback' link on Mr Logan's website at http://www.ministers.wa.gov.au/logan

*Ok ...This is our chance to stick it up the nimbies! Any positive comments will do even if it's just to say the plans a great!!

The pics on the site are the same ones we have already.

this what i sed lol ("yours truly" lol!)

"Just saying i love the plans for the Treasury building ! i really hope it goes ahead and it will rejuvinate this part of the CBD

Yours Truly,
Patrick Hay"

Old Treasury plans on display

The high level of interest in the State Government's plans for the redevelopment of Perth's historic Old Treasury Buildings has prompted a display of the plans in the heart of the city.

From today, the initial architectural designs for the buildings will be displayed in the foyer of the Governor Stirling Tower at 197 St George's Terrace.

They can also be accessed on the internet by following the 'Old Treasury Building' link on the Department of Housing and Works website at http://www.dhw.wa.gov.au

The designs by Melbourne-based architect Peter Elliott and local architects Donaldson-Warn, Sandover Pinder and Palassis Architects were unveiled by Acting Premier Eric Ripper and Housing and Works Minister Francis Logan on Monday.

Mr Ripper and Mr Logan welcomed the designs and agreed that they represented a very contemporary solution to a difficult heritage project.

They include the complete refurbishment and restoration of the existing heritage-listed Old Treasury buildings. No significant building will be demolished. A new multi-storey office block facing Barrack Street will also be constructed.

"This will become a landmark building that will reinvigorate a part of the city which has become lifeless," Mr Ripper said.

"This design will allow the heritage buildings to be fully conserved and re-occupied for the first time in 10 years."

"I am now more convinced than ever that we will create a fabulous building for Perth," Mr Logan said.

"The proposed redevelopment will facilitate access through the buildings, encourage after-hours activity and reinvigorate the areas."

The State Government is working with the Perth City Council, the Heritage Council and the Department for Planning and Infrastructure - through a design review committee chaired by the Government Architect - to resolve heritage and planning issues associated with the redevelopment.

Comments on the design can be made clicking on the 'feedback' link on Mr Logan's website at http://www.ministers.wa.gov.au/logan

um rocstar already posted that!

^^Maybe it’s the Christmas spirit or should I say spirits :drunk: :D


this what i sed lol ("yours truly" lol!)

"Just saying i love the plans for the Treasury building ! i really hope it goes ahead and it will rejuvinate this part of the CBD

Yours Truly,
Patrick Hay"

Nice one Phatt. That’s all they need to hear!

there is a government tender to strip the internals of the treasury building, another step closer to upgrade

wow this will give perth another focal point for pedestrian interaction with the city.

the tower will be only 27m i think

any one know what this is?
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/9006/img04398qj.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

more foreward works-
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/5046/img07105et.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Looks like a make shift extenal lift. Gutting before the new construction starts?

The DHW said they will conduct foreward works to remove any non-heritage listed components. This is probably that.

Did anyone see the article in the West? It’s moving a step forward to becoming a reality. Plans lodged with the PCC for comment,then onto the WA Planning Commission for final approval.

This is one exciting classy project. Perth is definitely heading in the right direction. Thats 3 outstanding world class government building designs along with the indoor stadium and the new Northbridge Theatre.

Key points on the development;


2 office blocks. One office block, a long, narrow, nine story rectangle, will feature perforated aluminium, woven stainless steel and translucent glass cladding in a “double skin” facade.
The other building, a seven story, free- form, crystalline structure, will feature extensive glass splaying out above the third level. The buildings will be lined by a central atrium and public retail arcade that runs north-south along the site at ground level.

The Postal Hall to be fully renovated to create an impressive entry hall of St Georges Tce, activated by commercial and retail uses.

Construction of a café-restaurant and a bistro in the basement of the heritage buildings.

An upgraded facade which includes clay roof tiles from the Old Treasury buildings being removed and replaced with the original slate.

Balconies being repaired and made accessible again.



With all that’s happening in the north side of the city, foreshore and all, this city will not be recognisable in the coming years. Very exciting times ahead for Peth City Centre and to think the government keeps on talking not only about revitalising the city centre but turning it into a 24 hr city.

http://www.dhw.wa.gov.au/otb/OTB_09.jpg
http://www.dhw.wa.gov.au/otb/OTB_08.jpg
http://www.dhw.wa.gov.au/otb/OTB_10.jpg
http://www.dhw.wa.gov.au/otb/OTB_11.jpg
http://www.dhw.wa.gov.au/otb/OTB_12.jpg
http://www.dhw.wa.gov.au/otb/OTB_01.jpg

I like the sound of the facade.

This has to add chances to a cinema city devleopment in the future.

It seems the Cathedral Civic Square proposal is a separate development. I think this is commissioned by the PCC who a keen to see a new public civic square. The Chambers building may still go!? Combined with the Treasury redevelopment, this will certainly be one awesome precinct.

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/1892/cat4ca.jpg
Set for a major revamp.

Yeah the PCC want the whole thing to be an intergrated development .Cathedral sq ATM is an embarrasment. Don't really expect anything until 2010-2012 on that.

Well I hope it doesn’t take that long.
You can see in the pic above what a difference it would make with the Chambers building gone! (that's the brown building on the right, for those not in the know) I certainly hope so.

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/2181/tres9uc.jpg
I think this will be a much photographed building/facade once the works a complete. For too long it has been hidden away, inaccessible to the general public which is a real shame.

REJECTED 7-2 BY PCC. IT CAN STILL GO AHEAD AS IT WAS ADVICE TO THE WAPC> SEND THEM A LETTER SUPPORTING IT!!!

What does the PCC want, another set of contempary boxes that blend in boringly like the colour of beige does in an housing development? Can't say I am surprised though ..

I would rather something modern and out there then say an attempt to create something that blends in with the heritage buildings. When usually they try contempary Victorian and Edwardian styles. It looks cheap and minimal because its lacks the classical details of the older buildings, that are just too expensive to incorporate in these days.

The way ole man natrass was talking about it today in the paper.... he used the term 'bastardisation' of the treasury building. god dammit what is wrong with these people?!?! I get so sick and tired of watching proposals come and go all the time and being held up.

The only bastardisation is coming from NattrAss mouth.The PCC can go and fuk themselves. They’re a bunch of useless pricks! They have now pulled the pin on the Northbridge Piazza project.
It doesn’t need their approval anyhow. It’s up to the WA Planning Commission. Yes, let write to the WAPC and say we want this project to go ahead despite the dullsville mentality the PCC have.

The PCC seem to have this stupid small town mindset that historical buildings can not mix with modern architecture. But if you go to bigger cities, specially in Sydney and Melbourne you see it all the time.

Look at the very modern Melbourne Museum that is directly opposite the historic and world heritage listed Royal Exhibition Building. Or walk around the northern Sydney CBD and you will often see historically significant buildings next to or even incorporated into modern buidlings (The Governer Philip tower being a prime example).

We need fresh blood in that council. Young blood. Isn’t that old fart retiring soon?:)

Here's something from the Architects' development application which shows how these things have worked in other parts of the world.

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/5582/otb8xs.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I read the agenda last week and they were saying that the hay street facade needed upgrading to match the barrack street facade so they match and that the building should be set back so the town hall would be clearly visible, so a new courtyard needed creating on the hay street side.

i dont think its rejected i just think its getting improved actually.

dont stress!

I saw that too, but I have reservations about it. The PCC could have granted approval with those recommendations but they have downright rejected the proposal instead. The report in the agenda is nothing more than the recommendations of the poor CoP planners and committees, working hard behind the scenes to inform the often short-sighted council.

planner-stu - a very astute observation and you are 100 per cent correct.

I think they will ammend the plans and put it forward again within a month.

The recommended changes are very good i think, subtle but important.

I think the Hay St frontage is an area of key concern, the barrack st side is important don't get me wrong...but the Hay St is also a key aspect of the building...

I think nothing needs improving and we should just build the bastars without anymore delay.

Treasury Buildings plan opposed
Thursday 18 May 2006



The City ofPerth has expressed grave concern that three of the city’s most important heritage buildings will be adversely impacted upon if State Government plans for the Old Treasury Building site proceed.



Lord Mayor Dr Peter Nattrass said the Perth Town Hall, the former Land Titles Office and the Treasury Building would be severely compromised if out-of-character and overbearing modern buildings were allowed to dominate the precinct.



He said the Council of the City of Perth also strongly opposed a requirement that 17,000 sqm of government office space be included in redevelopment of the site, saying it was excessive and such a requirement would severely compromise the integrity of surrounding buildings and the adjacent “Foundation Park”.



As a consequence, the Council rejected an application from the Department of Housing and Works for the “adaptive re-use” of the Old Treasury Buildings and the associated construction of a nine-storey office building on the historic site. The City will advise the WA Planning Commission of its refusal of the application.



Dr Nattrass said it was his view that the planning application was the most important the Council had been required to consider in many years.



“The City has spent more than $12 million on refurbishing our most important heritage building, the Perth Town Hall, yet the plans before the Council would impact very adversely on it,” Dr Nattrass said.



“The other buildings are also of great architectural and historical significance with the Old Treasury Building and Land Titles Office dating back more than a century and St George’s Cathedral completing the picture.



“One of the great mistakes of the past was that Perth lost so many of its heritage buildings. We should not compound that mistake today by compromising these beautiful old buildings with grossly excessive over-bearing additions.



“Future generations will condemn us if we make such short-term decisions based on achieving a cost-neutral outcome.”



Dr Nattrass said that whatever development proposals were put forward for the site, they should optimise opportunities for public use and enjoyment of the site in much the same way that the Queen Victoria Building in Sydney achieves that purpose.



“In particular, sterile office space should be avoided and the buildings opened up at ground level with dining and retail opportunities,” he said. “As the plans stand, people-oriented activities have been relegated to the basement.



“This is a poor planning decision which will do little to attract people into the Treasury Building and little to bring “people activity” to St Georges Terrace

:bash:

Don’t worry the architects had ago at the PCC in Saturday’s West. They used the word ‘dullsville’ which Nattrass gets fired up on big time.. hehe

Also as said, their own design advisory committee, The Heritage Council and Housing and Works, Michelle Roberts all approve the development, so the City of Perth can go and get stuffed, besides the ones in their rank who were in favour of it.

Here is the story:

Architects dismiss "confused' critics

The architects behind the ultra-modern design for Perth's Old Treasury buildings have spoken out for the first time, labelling vitriolic criticism from Perth City Council as confused and immature.
Architect Geoff Warn, of Donaldson and Warn, one of the lead firms in the ambitious redevelopment, told The West Australian that the world's most popular buildings and structures emerged out of controversy and history had shown time and time again that the detractors were wrong.
Citing the Eiffel Tower, Sydney Opera House and Melbourne Federation Square, Mr Warn said the mark of a mature and sophisticated city was its capacity to show leadership and embrace change.
The city council this week rejected plans for the Treasury buildings, with Lord Mayor Peter Nattrass declaring they were bastardising Perth's most important heritage precinct. He said the plans for 17,000sq m of new government office space were “grossly overbearing and excessive”.
Mr Warn said similar criticism had been levelled at the “monolithic” Town Hall when it was built.
“In this day and age, when you approach design in a heritage context, you don't mimic previous architecture. One always introduces exemplary new architecture that is of its kind and of its time,” Mr Warn said.
“The Town Hall and the Treasury buildings can be seen as architecture of very different eras and very different styles, and yet they sit quite comfortably together.
“The contrast between architectural forms and aesthetics of different eras makes cities rich and diverse.”
Mr Warn said the councillors were going against expert advice from their own planning department and the council's independent design advisory committee, both of which supported the redevelopment.
And Mr Warn said Cr Max Kay, who described part of the new office building as “a colostomy bag” at this week's council meeting, had personally congratulated him and leading Melbourne heritage architect Peter Elliot when the design was first unveiled to the council.
Mr Warn said he was surprised by the criticism because the redevelopment even had the support of the Heritage Council.
“These sorts of opportunities are just not a problem in cities like Sydney and Melbourne,” he said. “If the councillors reject it or water it down, you end up kind of reinforcing the Dullsville tag.”
Housing and Works Minister Michelle Roberts said this week the radical design would not have been her choice, but after sitting down with the architects she believed modern and historic could sit side by side.

http://www.realestate.com.au/objects/props/6231/402206231ml1151026757.jpg

Arrr now I know why the City of Perth is against the current Treasury redevelopment plans. It’s because it will block out their view of the clock tower after spending so much time and money on it.

Look how well the Bell Tower and the Town Hall clock towers work together!!!!!! Old and new is the perfect fit. It’s black and white.

i think the officer tower is oriented towards the left of that pic, so it still wont block out the clock tower, and even if the tower is behind it you will still be able to see the town hall, and also you cant see the town hall from st georges terrace atm anyway, comeon pcc, old and new can work very well

http://www.dhw.wa.gov.au/otb/OTB_09.jpg

I don’t know Chris. It does look like it may somewhat block out the PCC precious views. It makes no difference to street level like you said.

There are such large setbacks from the new office components, which in term the Town Hall will still dominate the corner. The new buildings will present it well.

i dont quite see why people are complaining about the views?? because it doesn't look like it will be blocking any views, will it?
cheers

Just the City of Perth wont be able to see it,so lets have a half-ass development then.

^^ so who the heck cares?? i say just go ahead and build it:)

I don't see any problem with the Hay Street Facade, don't like the look of the building along Barrack Street though. It could do with some more windows facing Barrack Street, instead of only five windows shown on the concept.

Knocked back by the WAPC. They are going to put it out to public comment in the hay st mall so i shall be going to that and voicing my oppinion and ofcourse, exerting it on others :D

It was defered Dilaz. I received this yeterday from DHW.

"The CPPC (WAPC delegated committee) deferred the DA seeking a two week
public consultaiton process on the design model. While this process was
undertaken earlier this year, this new process will occur again
shortly.
Thank you for your interest in this matter."
___________

Knowing the people of Perth, it will probably receive a negative response, so we all should put our 2 cents in definitely in this next public submission.... At the same time, throw in a few insults directed at the PCC :p

I just read in the paper, Nattrass will be at the display everyday in the Hay St mall, putting his views across. What a dick! If it does get soooooo many negative responses from the public, well the WAPC will know he had a major hand in it (he may be doing us a favor lol). I like him to try and tell me it’s a bad design. I look forward to the head to head!!

Don’t get me wrong, a few modifications are totally acceptable but to redesign the entire thing to suit his taste is totally unacceptable even after so many professionals approve of it. What are his qualifications?

Again he mentioned how it will over shadow, it just reinforces my belief it's all about blocking his view of the Town Hall clock tower.

Because of him the project has stalled!..what else is new.

WOOOO cant wait to tell him that he belong in the smithsonian institute.

Rob Butler for mayor!!!!

Modifications could include making it less square or adding more retail, othan than that, i love it.

SOOo true :)

Use that crappy render of St Mary's (in the small cbd & surrounds thread) to explain why we should not design a new building to try and match the surrounding 19th century architecture.

As Dilaz98 said ..

I think we gotta get over the fact that we crant really replicate that era.

Great idea Ipggi. Another prime example is Albert Facey House in Forrest Place. U know the one next to the GPO. It has no architectural merits at all. It looks like it’s made from lego and the pillars could be that of storm water pipes. Does anyone have a pic of this building? I did try the web but had no luck.

Would Albert Facey House be worth keeping in a hundred years time? …I think not.

Maybe Nattrass wants to use Alanna’s ‘piles’ in his vision lol

Albert faeces house sucks in and out. If they had brains they would have built it in just glass.

Not the best photos, taken from the buildings website..

http://www.albertfaceyhouse.com.au/Images/Photos/af_ext6.jpg

http://www.albertfaceyhouse.com.au/Images/Photos/af_ext13.jpg

http://www.albertfaceyhouse.com.au/Images/Photos/af_ext17.jpg

i like that building lol, though i cant wait till they rip that overpass down and they need more retail on the ground floor

^^ It’s not the ugliest building around, it’s just a sad attempt to imitate the GPO and Commonwealth bank buildings.

Thanx for the pics Ipggi!

If memory serves me correctly it was a requirement by the PCC?

went and had a look at the 'model' in the hay street mall today with dilaz89. natrass is an arrogant old man, dilaz was telling him how he did not agree with him then he just started ignoring him and talking to other grannies, hes only interested in people that agree with him.... about time to retire lord mayor... he's there from 11pm outside david jones in the hay street mall, go annoy him lol

What a rude rude man. After all the times i used to stick up for the old fart. He has no idea whatsover in what the younger people have to say, infact, he was only talking to old cronies.

BTW the model was lame as!made out of paper ffs with lopsided floors! NO colour also.

they should put the wa museum or something in the treasury building instead of boring offices

Think you might like this chappies. From today's The West Australian, page 11.

Treasury revamp closer to approval
GARETH PARKER
Perth Lord Mayor Peter Nattrass looks set to lose his fight to stop the controversial Old Treasury buildings project with the chairman of the WA Planning Commission, Jeremy Dawkins, giving the strongest indication yet of approval.
Mr Dawkins said last night the redeveloped government buildings should become the new home of the Premier, Treasurer and State Cabinet.
In a statement, Mr Dawkins said the Central Perth Planning Committee, which has delegated authority for the City of Perth from the WAPC, supported the return of the head of government to the site in an “iconic building generally in the form proposed”.
“The CPPC believes the Premier, Treasurer and Cabinet should occupy a striking and prestigious building in the best of contemporary architecture,” Mr Dawkins said.
“The CPPC supports the close integration of new and old.”
Mr Dawkins' statement is a blow for Dr Nattrass and Perth City Council, who vehemently oppose the project which involves building ultra-modern new offices and public dining and retail facilities in the heritage precinct.
paper understands the CPPC voted 3-2 on Wednesday night to move forward with the project.
That decision, behind closed doors, does not mean the project has won final development approval but it is a clear statement of intent. The CPPC has the power to approve or reject the project.
It is understood Dr Nattrass, who sits on the CPPC, spoke passionately against the project. He and businessman Jim Freemantle voted in the minority with Mr Dawkins, Government Architect Geoffrey London and businesswoman Fiona Kalaf in favour.
Dr Nattrass spent Wednesday night and yesterday morning rallying Perth City councillors to a crisis meeting yesterday afternoon. It is understood they tried to map out a new strategy to fight the project.
The council believes the redevelopment plans would ruin the fabric of the heritage-listed Old Treasury buildings and neighbouring Town Hall with their bulk and scale.
The plans are supported by the Heritage Council of WA. They include 17,000sq m of new government office space, complete public access to the ground floor of the empty old buildings, new cafes, restaurants and retail areas.

And some more pics

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/9948/0021pc9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/7453/0051nx1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/2882/200706genhay1zx7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/7946/a200706genbarrack1dp6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Its so sexy!!! Peter has to go!!!

Will be letting the councillors know what he did to me to btw.

Well lets hope we see more then just potential renders :P

Oh so sexy! Man I can't wait for this to happen... as you know I am travelling, went to the Seattle public library yesterday and was blown away this building is sooo strange, modern and absolutely kick-arse!! Similar kinda design, will post some pics if I get the chance.

Concern grows over Old Treasury plan
Tuesday 25 July 2006



The Lord Mayor, Dr Peter Nattrass, and City ofPerth Councilllors have called a Special Council Meeting for Friday to discuss their deep concern over plans to redevelop the “heart” of Perth’s prime heritage precinct.



This was prompted by concerns over proceedings at last week’s meeting of the Government’s Central Perth Planning Committee, which considered plans to build two overpowering, bulky, modern glass buildings in very close proximity to the heritage-listed Perth Town Hall, the Old Treasury Buildings and the Titles Office Building.



Dr Nattrass said he updated Councillors following the meeting and they remain unanimous in their strong opposition to the Government committee’s plans.



“The proposed new building is totally out of character in bulk, form, scale and location and shows no respect to the adjacent historical buildings – as such it will irreparably damage the city’s foremost heritage precinct,” Dr Nattrass said.



He also said: “The Council takes strong exception to the loss of Foundation Park – which commemorated where Mrs Helen Dance, the wife of the Commander of HMS Sulphur, cut down a tree in 1829 to establish the Swan River Colony, the forerunner to our beautiful City.”



Dr Nattrass, who is a member of the Government’s Central Perth Planning Committee said that although the actual outcome of the committee meeting was confusing, he was left in no doubt that there were now even stronger grounds for concern that the proposal would proceed.



Dr Nattrass said that he stressed to the Committee that the Councillors had unanimously opposed the development proposal when it was submitted to the Council for comment.



He also highlighted that from the hundreds of comments he and Councillors had personally received, there was no doubt that the vast majority of the public also opposed the proposal. He said that when people viewed the model, many of them shook their heads in disbelief and used words like “monstrosity”, “ugly”, “clashes” and “inappropriate”.



He said that for those reasons he was astounded by the fact that the Government committee also voted 3:2 against a motion that a programme of public consultation should be commenced to ascertain the views of the people.



On the other hand, the Council commended the Premier and the State Government on its commitment to refurbishing and reactivating the old Treasury Building into cafes, restaurants and retail outlets that would help to revitalise St Georges Terrace. It also supported the return of the Ministry of Premier and Cabinet into the upper floors of such an historically important building. The Lord Mayor said he felt confident that the Premier would not agree to bending the rules, guidelines and sensitivities of the location just to achieve this end.



Dr Nattrass also said he considered this to be one of the most important heritage issues the City has faced since the preservation of the Cloisters Buildings and the Barracks Arch and he sincerely hoped the Government committee would listen to the people and that common sense would ultimately prevail.

Just emailed all the councillors showing my support, please everyone here has to do something. it doesnt take long!!!

Did you attack the intelligence of the average aussie. That usually does the trick. :P

yes yes i did actually hahah

More information may be obtained by from the Project Development Manager, Peter Gillies, tel: 9222 4666 or via email peter.gillies@dhw.wa.gov.au.

The Old Treasury Building Redevelopment is a rare opportunity to deliver a first rate architectural and urban project for the city of Perth. The recently appointed Government Architect has initiated the project on behalf of the State Government.

With the objective of supporting a more lively capital city, the State Government is willing to fund a full upgrade of the existing heritage buildings, construct a quality contemporary infill structure in the centre of the site and provide a public plaza, forecourt and arcade at street levels.

The new development proposes retail/commercial activity throughout the ground level with a public thoroughfare linking St George’s Terrace through to Hay Street, via the city’s original Postal Hall located within the heritage buildings. Above the ground floor, key State Government departments will occupy the heritage and proposed buildings, thus bringing government agencies together in the city centre and back into the buildings in which they once resided.

The new architecture is intended to be of a contemporary nature and the existing heritage buildings will be carefully rejuvenated. There will be some exciting spaces where the old and new fabric are integrated and numerous opportunities to highlight the qualities of the existing buildings and the rich history of the site.

The design concept is supported by the Heritage Council of WA, the City of Perth Planning Department and the City of Perth’s Advisory Panel (which is made up of prominent architects and planners).

Lord Mayor, Peter Nattrass is keen to have the project cancelled on the grounds that the contemporary architecture is unsuitable and that the proposed new building be replaced with lawn and trees... a city park. This is in direct opposition with the State Government and project architects who believe that the historic buildings should be carefully adapted and reused thereby integrating them back into the fabric of the city.

The Lord Mayor has insisted that an early sketch model be displayed in the Hay Street Mall to seek public opinion. The Lord Mayor, Cr Max Kay and Cr Sutherland have been present in the Mall between 12 and 2pm and will continue this until next Wednesday 19th July. The model is poorly displayed and the Mayor has expressed his objection to additional images and support material being used to give the public a better understanding of this complex project.

Obviously the Mayor and Councillors are skilled campaigners and are generating public opposition to the project. The results of this opinion poll are intended to pressure the Minister to cancel the project.

There is obviously much more at stake than this building alone, such as the influence and approach of the Government Architect and the future of contemporary design and creative expression in the city’s evolution.

http://www.donaldsonandwarn.com.au/InProgress/OTB/renders/001.jpg

This is arguably Perth’s most exciting project currently under consideration.

In association with Sandover Pinder and working with prominent architect Peter Elliott from Melbourne, and Palassis Architects as heritage consultants, the team is working carefully to integrate a new program of office and commercial accommodation with the very significant heritage architecture of the former treasury buildings.

The new building comprises two levels of basement car park, nine levels of commercial office accommodation and retail tenancies located at lower levels.

A public plaza unites the new entry foyer on Barrack Street with the Town Hall and locates the Treasury Buildings within a unique, central city heritage precinct

Some new renders from a moving image presentation they've done up (but which hasn't been publicly released and may not be).

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/9244/180806gentreasury2nv0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/8894/220806genredevelop11kk9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

One thing that I particularly dislike appears to be the fault of the revisions, not the original design- and that's the setting back of the Hay St facade from the street. Is it just me, or does anyone else feel this has only served to make it look even more out-of-place (and therefore, less flattering to the surroundings)?

Agreed, it looks ridiculous set back from both Hay and Barrack Streets that far. Nothing good will come of this design.

You can thank design by compromise for that, I suppose.

demolishing the law chambers would make the area look abit more attractive :)

Perth and its set backs :sleepy:

Those setbacks are stupid. I still like it. Hope its really alive though.

Setbacks :ohno: It's not like there is not enough space in the CBD as it is.

It could be a mistake. Those 3d renders looks shit. I will be in contact with the projects co ordiantor.

I'm probably going to get eaten for this but I've always thought Town Hall isn't anything too speacial. Sure it's worth keeping, but look at other town halls of Australia, as usual ours looks like it belongs in a country town. The way the city of Perth go on about it, you would think it was the Vatican or something.

Also, the Treasury building is certainly not Perth's best old building.

Actually the town hall is quite unique and in it's style and design. While it is not grand or overstated as other Victorian townhalls. I love the gothic influences, and the fact it is brick rather then stone.

http://www.deh.gov.au/cgi-tmp/rt27199-5105.jpg

In this photo you can make out the old R&I bank building that used to be on the site.

The Town hall isn’t too bad but it needs something *cough this proposal* to really bring the place out! Not to mention, some life.

Gee, it looks like such a small development really.... And such a big uproar from Nattass. I tells yar, he’s pissed off because the new tower will block out the Town Hall from Council House.

demolishing the law chambers would make the area look abit more attractive :)
Without the Chambers building, especially if we get the public plaza, I think it will be better too (even better without the setbacks) but then again, those 3d render pics don't look that great really. We didn't mind the Hay st setback before yeah? ..That was going by the other pics and by the recommendations made but now the setbacks don't seem to it justice at all from those pics. This really should be investigated further by the pros.

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/6172/thxa2.jpg
Pic modified with less setback (Hay st) and without the Chambers building.

i think the treasury building is abit of a lame project to be honest, lets just throw a few shops in the buildinga chunk a new building in the middle.... no thought. how about fully restore the treasury building and inside make it a grand shopping centre like the gpo in melbourne or make it a museum with bars and shops and build the new building posisioning it properly and have a piazza with cafes opening onto it. the design of the building is good, but I think it has been positioned quite badly on the site and the use of the site wont ad much to the city, we need more than 10 shop we need about 50 in this site...

I think this is a fantastic plan. I dont particularly like the new pics because they dont emphasise the contrast between old and new, which is the whole point of this sort of development.

I just received an invitation to view the real time visualisation... it will be interesting to see how the full presentation looks. I assume you've already seen it scribbler, given that you got those renders?

As a matter of fact, I haven't. Have just been told of its existence and they pulled those screen shots off it for me. Hoping I will get an opportunity though, tell us how it looks!

Update: Now I have!

http://www.wapc.wa.gov.au/visualisation/default.aspx

Looks like you can register to have a peek as well, between midday and 2pm on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday next week. Hit the link above to register.

Damn school!


Good find ipiggi! I'd love to see a full pic of it if you have one.

Unfortunately that was the best photo I could find

Old Treasury revamp on the money
22nd September 2006, 8:00 WST


The controversial Old Treasury buildings redevelopment has won planning approval, clearing the way for the construction of a seven-storey “crystalline” office block between St Georges Tce, Hay and Barrack streets.

The Central Perth Planning Committee approved the project on Wednesday subject to conditions. The design of the facades, finishes and materials, pedestrian and vehicle access and construction process all need approval.

The plans were “a very significant contribution to the traditional civic heart of the city which includes the Supreme Court Gardens, Supreme Court, Council House, Town Hall, Old Treasury buildings and Government House,” committee chairman Jeremy Dawkins said.

“The CPPC considers that this contemporary and iconic building can be integrated into the complex in a manner which reinforces the traditions and significance of the site, and enlivens this quarter of the city.”

Plans include a split-level glass office block in the centre of the historic site and extensive glass features which appears to explode upwards from street level.

Lord Mayor Peter Nattrass — an avowed critic of the plan to build 17,000sq m of new office space behind the existing heritage buildings — is a member of the CPPC, with planning and infrastructure director-general Greg Martin and businesspeople Jim Freemantle and Fiona Kalaf.

“When a government-appointed committee supports a government department’s application for a government office building against the unanimous opposition of the elected representatives of Perth, one has every reason to express concern, especially when there is such widespread public opposition to the proposal,” Dr Nattrass said yesterday.

He believed Cabinet would not agree to the plans. It is understood Dr Nattrass believes the project could be stopped on technicality.

His case will revolve around 6400sq m of plot ratio from the old R&I Bank site, between the Town Hall and Old Treasury buildings, that was transferred to the Bank-West Tower site as part of a 1994 deal to demolish the R&I building.

Housing and Works Minister Michelle Roberts said her department would now “finalise the business case for the development” which would be considered by Cabinet.

*Time to shut the Fuk up NattrArse. Your conservative views have kept Perth in the dark ages for too long.

Thank god! ... I have a smile on my face now because I honestly didn't think this would make it through ..

I had a gut feeling it would be approved!

Well done central perth planning committee, of whom i didnt know existed up until this debate!:D

good job

but I wont be happy until its actually under construction. that old codger still thinks he can stop it in parliament.

A proposed extension to a Perth heritage building has opened old architectural wounds, writes Victoria Laurie
November 16, 2006
DISPUTE over a large-scale development project in Perth has taken on the air of high drama, generating rare interest in architecture in a town of glass canyons and dull buildings.

The fuss is over a handsome but derelict red brick building on a neglected corner block on St Georges Terrace, next to the town hall in the heart of the city. The state Government wants to reinvigorate the historic precinct with a bold modern extension containing 17,000sqm of office space, shops, cafes and bars.

Perth architectural firm Donaldson & Warn came up with an idea to connect the old building with two modern glass-clad structures: one a standard rectangular box, the other an unorthodox, jagged-edged building.

When the design was revealed, Perth lord mayor Peter Nattrass furiously declared it an insult to the historic significance of the site: a founding colonist symbolically chopped down the first tree there in 1829. Nattrass took to the streets for several days with a 3-D model of the proposal and urged passers-by to sign a petition opposing it. Architect Geoff Warn followed suit with his own petitions, arguing the finer points of architectural design with Nattrass as they stood on the footpath.

Federal Heritage Minister Ian Campbell, a West Australian senator, weighed into the debate by publicly attacking the winning design as "putting mag wheels on a classic vintage car". He said he had nearly choked on his breakfast cereal when he saw the design in the local newspaper. Then state Labor suggested that his carefully timed comments were a political favour to back up Nattrass, whose longtime partner is Campbell's Liberal colleague, Julie Bishop.

The plan had already won approval from the WA Heritage Council, the WA chapter of the Royal Australian Institute of Architects, Perth's central planning committee and government architect Geoffrey London. Warn upped the ante.

"There is obviously much more at stake than this building alone," he wrote on his company website, "such as the influence and approach of the government architect and the future of contemporary design and creative expression in the city's evolution."

Many architects and urban designers agree with Warn. They remark that the city has one of the worst track records of any capital: unremarkable office blocks and expediently tall towers sprang up in the WA Inc days, as developers were allowed to demolish heritage buildings and build extra tower floors in return for promises to build plazas and public facilities that rarely materialised.

Ian Dewar, president of the WA chapter of the RAIA, says ad hoc, on-the-run decisions plague Perth's town planning. "A politician can go to the football and come back with an idea for a building," he says. Nattrass, too, says the quality of Perth's buildings in recent decades has been "very disappointing".

Some blame that mediocrity on Nattrass and his Perth City Council, a small but powerful gatekeeper of "appropriate" development.

As a circuit-breaker the Government appointed London, its first government architect, three years ago with a brief to improve the design quality of public buildings and spaces. It was clear acknowledgment that a wealthy city was failing to produce exhilarating public spaces such as Melbourne's Federation Square, national emblems such as the Sydney Opera House or popular destinations such as Brisbane's Southbank.

London invited high-profile firms to submit designs for the Old Treasury building extension. They had all played a part in transforming the architectural landscape in Sydney and Melbourne: Denton Corker Marshall, Ashton Raggatt McDougall and Tonkin Zulaikha Greer, among them.

London was doubly pleased when a local firm won the tender, Donaldson and Warn in partnership with respected Melbourne architect Peter Elliott.

It would be wrong to characterise opposition to the Old Treasury's extension as a knee-jerk reaction against modernity. The anxiety of Nattrass and his council, who voted unanimously against it, lies partly in bitter experience with another contentious building, the Perth Convention Centre, a joint government-developer project that is widely criticised as an economic, architectural and aesthetic dud.

"It's diabolical, even Dickensian. It looks like a warehouse from the Swan River," says Perth city councillor Max Kay. "We were railroaded and didn't have a say but we get all the brickbats for it. So we're determined not to let that happen again." Although a frequent critic of Nattrass, Kay spent 10 days standing by the lord mayor's side taking signatures against the Old Treasury extension.

"The Perth Convention Centre is a dreadful building, but it came into being before there was a government architect," observes Leon Van Schaik, professor of architecture at the Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology and one of Australia's foremost authorities on urban renewal through architecture. "It's a tragedy that that one major blunder should be used to bludgeon everything else new, and make people think that if you do something new, it'll be horrid."

A regular visitor to WA, Van Schaik met supporters of the Old Treasury extension last week in Perth and is following events closely. "You've got a fantastic building from the past being given an opportunity to join with a fantastic building from the present, so it represents two tides of ambition about Perth and its culture," he says enthusiastically. "In Europe where these tides have happened more often it's seldom that a building is reinvigorated like that. Nobody can fail to be excited by this juxtaposition."

Van Schaik has been both instigator and commentator on city renewal, especially in his home town (Design City Melbourne is the title of his latest book). He says it is essential to offer patronage for local architects, support big, bold projects and ensure business and governments back good design.

"Architecture has always been the best attempt at expressing our understanding of our being in the world in a particular point in time," he says. "The cities that interest us around the world are ones that do battle with that. It happens in bursts in cities: it happened in Graz in the '70s, in Barcelona in the '80s, in The Netherlands in the '90s. It's happened in the past 10 years in Melbourne."

When he joined RMIT 20 years ago, Van Schaik stopped the tradition of importing big-name architects to work and lecture, and talked RMIT into appointing local architects to design new inner-city buildings for the university. Most famous was Storey Hall, a building so radical in design that former Kennett government minister Rob McLellan approved it on condition it was screened from public view -- and public criticism -- until it was completed. It has since won several architectural awards.

"As both premier and arts minister, Jeff Kennett was determined to have excellence even if he didn't always achieve it," observes Van Schaik. He says banks and other businesses followed the government's example and raised the bar in their building designs.

Perth's state and local governments haven't yet got that message, he says. "It's their job not simply to lead investment in infrastructure but also invest in cultural capital, to keep people here and attract back all those fantastic people who were educated here and do so much to leaven the cultures of other cities."

"We don't find it easy to have a dialogue about what sort of a city we want," says Stuart Hicks, chairman of the East Perth Redevelopment Authority, which conducts urban renewal in inner Perth. "It's considered disloyal to criticise it -- people say, 'This is the best bloody city in the world, why do you want to change it?"'

A decision on the Treasury project by the state Department of Housing and Works is imminent. London is nervous; he says matters are at a delicate stage but he is hopeful it will get the go-ahead. Nattrass, on the other hand, sounds confident: "I've been working closely with the head of Housing and Works, who is very co-operative. I'd be surprised if the Government goes ahead with the proposal."

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20763817-16947,00.html

It meantions that the last few decades have seen dreadful buildings. The last 25 years is when we got our best! Don't tell me they love the 60's and 70's boxes. Some people amaze me, they will go for a box, but not a futuristic and original design. God I hate the NIMBYs in this city, there are too many of them >(

Good news,it's great for this sort of project to be creeping onto that side of Barrack street.

Great article. So true in many ways (not in agreeance with the WA inc days comment).


I thought it has been approved? Or has it but the DHW can withdraw?
I'll be very pissed off if the outcome is bad.

It's true about the last 25 years being the worst. They may have demolished more older buildings before that (in the 60's etc) but the culture was different back then, it was seen as progress.
In the 80's the culture had changed but they went ahead and knocked stuff down anyway, it was far worse because they should have known better.

Even into the nineties you had developers sending bulldozers to knock down listed buildings in the middle of the night. And then they would only get a lsap on the wrist.

It has planning approval from the WA Planning Commission. All that means is that the Government can build it if it wants to.

BUT ... (and here is the rub) the Government has so far given no commitment that it will in fact go ahead with the project. The Department of Housing and Works is running the process thus far and it is, as I understand it, currently working on a business case. That business case will then be presented to the Government and Cabinet will take a vote on it. At this stage, Housing and Works Minister Michelle Roberts has made no firm commitment one way or the other.

(That article in The Australian is a little loose on some of its facts - it won't be the Department that decides, but Cabinet).

My guess is that it will depend in large part on whether the Government thinks it can get a better long-term financial deal by housing the Department of Premier and Cabinet, Treasury (and a few other departments currently located in Governor Stirling Tower) at a redeveloped OTB that it owns itself, or whether it's more cost-effective to be paying commercial rent at Governor Stirling.

I'm not saying that will be the only consideration, but it will certainly be important in the Government's thinking.

Nothing good was knocked down in 1980's in my knowledge. CML was gone in '79 after a gargoyle fell off the roof. Somd good things came about in the 80's, the saving of the trasury bldg, palace hotel and 113-140 st georges to name a few.

I think everything that went up in the 80s and 90s was fabulous. Bank west and central park, and all the others that i cant think of lol.

this bitch is as good as dead according to the west. Fucking nattrass and his lame ass 'cathedral square' bullshit. It will never happen and if it does, it wont even begin until 2010.

NATRASS IS THE BIGGEST F#@^!%@#~@^$!#$!!@$%%!~#$%%!!!^~#$#@%!!!!$%%^#^*^%$%!!^#^%$#@&%^#^!!**#@*$%@#*&^#^$%$#^%^%^&*$#@^&#%$ !!ON THE PLANET!..NOT TO MENTION HAS THE SMALLEST P#@*$ AND F^$%#^!!&%$@!%*^!!!#^%$^@^#$@!&%@#$#@#*$#$%@#^*# HIM SELF EVERY NITE!

Can hardly say it's a surprise :(

Can i ask HOW?

What a Cunt.

Man i was hoping this joint would come through. Bloody Fuckers!!!
:bash:

Very annoyed

I've just come off the phone to Peter Gillies, the Project Manager for this building. He was being fairly careful with what he said, and while I have yet to read the article in yesterday's (and today's) West, Peter confirmed the accuracy of the articles. He spoke of a possible "re-think" and "re-design" of the project, specifically related to the proximity of a new building to the Town Hall, which in my opinion probably means a bland, blend-in piece of shite, but I guess we will have to wait and see. I asked why a controversial building like the Perth Arena can just sail on through and start getting built before the general public has time to be brainwashed against it, while the poor Treasury building has such a hard time. He says it its because it is a government building. Nuff said, I suppose. I notice the DHW site is suddenly "temporarily under construction".
http://www.dhw.wa.gov.au/212_1027.asp
Anyone got a voodoo doll of Nattrass?

yeah, it will be bland and boring and blend in. I hope it looks shit to rub into the councils face.

Let's hope it's not another Perth planning debacle to add to the list.

Let's see

1. Convention Centre
2. Size of the Bell Tower
3. Perth Cathedral - John Hawes Design
4. Riverside Drive
3. The 60s
4. The 70s
5. The 80s

I could go on but it would end in self harm...

Whats Perth Cathedral?

The one that got away. Granted this was a fair while ago. John Hawes designed Geraldton's cathedral and had grand plans for the one here in Perth. His plans got turfed while he was away in Europe buying tiles and glass for his magnificent design.

See link for more from Citystyle

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=149793&page=4

The one that got away. Granted this was a fair while ago. John Hawes designed Geraldton's cathedral and had grand plans for the one here in Perth. His plans got turfed while he was away in Europe buying tiles and glass for his magnificent design.

See link for more from Citystyle

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=149793&page=4

Err the current cathedral is still incomplete so what makes you think John Hawes more elaborate design would have fared any better? If anything it would probably have been in more of a shambles once work was called off due to a lack of funds.

Unfortunately it was completely bad timing to start any type of project like this. Cathedrals often took decades to complete, and the newer St Marys design started construction in 1926, just before the great depression. Then WW2 followed by years of war recovery.

As with the treasury building, we can dream! Not as bummed about the knock back in the design as much as it means another eternity before we will see any real development on this site (treasury that is).

Err the current cathedral is still incomplete so what makes you think John Hawes more elaborate design would have fared any better? If anything it would probably have been in more of a shambles once work was called off due to a lack of funds.

Unfortunately it was completely bad timing to start any type of project like this. Cathedrals often took decades to complete, and the newer St Marys design started construction in 1926, just before the great depression. Then WW2 followed by years of war recovery.

Actually because of the stone, Hawks never failed ona project and i doubt he would have failed on this. The Stone for the cathedral was imported as well, Hawks cut his own stone. His building would have got built.

grrrr i f*cking hate natrass so much
stupid old codger, i cant wait 'til he carks it
Cathedral square? oh yes, everyone wants to hang around churches at night

http://www.businessnews.com.au/admin/files/article/LocalKnowledge-lge7703.jpg
From Business news
Special Report
Local knowledge
With reform in the air, Peter Nattrass, Fremantle's Peter Tagliaferri and Cockburn's Stephen Lee are among those who believe the role of local government is undervalued.
:rofl:
Eat shite and die!!

Looking forward to the blend design. I hope it turns out half as good as this!
http://static.flickr.com/60/218808033_f1e69c0588.jpg?v=0

Check out the era defining detail!!
http://static.flickr.com/48/139137019_85e2e21eb3.jpg?v=0

:ohno: ..Do us all a favour and remove all the lego bits. Then the GPO will be trully shine through.

It was hard to find a pic of Albert Facey House because nobody wants to take a pic of it. Lets do the same thing over again:banana:
(..apologies for putting his ugly head on show)

LOL. That's fuckin' funny mate.

It pretty funny, because all those mayors are all fucking tossers. First we have old man cuntass who is stuck in the 40's, then shitliaferi who blocks development then complains why freo is loosing its charm and finally, lee who cried when the taskforce recommeded not to build a giant stadium in the middle of fucking no where.

Overall, local government suck!!!

I blame it all on the fact that they're baby boomers, no offense to those decent BB's tarnished by that stroke of bad luck. Those MoFo mayors (mares) belong in that category, and their mindset is the reason for much of our uninspired architecture, slow-mo building approvals/disapprovals, and even the goddam centuries it has taken us to get daylight savings! Retire and die is my kindest advice.

Dear Mr Nattrass

Just wanted to congratulate you on stifling yet another magnificent proposal
for Perth

I hope you get a nice little ugly concrete box so you can realise that youre
not an architect, and youre not an urban planner

you hold perth back, yet you say otherwise

the sooner you go, the better perth will be

shame on you, you cater to a silly minority

people in perth want stunning buildings, not a boring 'cathedral square'

get a life, sir

sean m

the REPLY

You can't be too confident in what you say when you hide behind an anonymous E-mail.

We all agree that Perth needs stunning buildings and the architectural profession has let us down in this regard.

What we don't need is such buildings in this location and occupying our most historically important site - Foundation Park.

And I can assure you the vast majority of Perth people agree with me on this.



Lord Mayor


Marie Bellinger
Administration Support Officer
Lord Mayor's Office
9461 3335

can i just say;

1. i included my full name in the email, do i need to provide full details to write to that bastard

2.that response is a load of absolute crap

i really encourage everyone to write to that old codger

:lol:
So what does he propose? A historical building? :nuts:
We should also blame Michelle Roberts, Housing and Works Minster for caving in! I bet if Fran Logan was still minster he would of told Nattarse to take a hike!

Yeah bring back Logan. Fucking wobble chin.

Oh i didn't know fucking marie bellinger was lord mayor?

AN OPEN LETTER TO MARIE BELLINGER

Unless you fund (yet another) referendum for the public's opinion, please do not assume the "vast majority of Perth people" support this decision. Dr Nattrass haranguing people in the Hay Street Mall at lunch time is not gathering the opinion of the "vast majority of Perth people". Anybody can imitate a sneer.
Perth certainly does need stunning architecture, and the architectural profession certainly has let us down in this regard, but this is in no small part thanks to people like your boss, and other architectural illiterates, whose misty-eyed view of the past endeavours to keep us all wedged there. Historically, your department has contributed to the destruction and vandalisation of the best of Perth's architecture, so please do not talk of closing the gate after the horse has bolted.
What we do need is inspired architecture juxtaposed against (on the world stage, somewhat dull) historical buildings, perhaps as a token of repentance for that which was ripped out in the first place. What we DO NOT need, is a look-a-like building standing embarrassed in its place.
As for anonymous emails, it is apparently your hand up Dr Nattrass's skirt that is speaking for him like a Sesame Street puppet. Please do not patronise one of our members who took the time to express a perfectly valid opinion.

Wishing you a quick retrenchment,

yours faithfully,

Dallas Robertson
PO Box 270
Inglewood WA 6932

LOL that is good. That should be a nice reply :), hehehe, I doubt they will reconsider though, you know what that generation is like!

Yes. I'm tapping my foot waiting patiently for them to pass away. But how can they die when they're already dead?!

ah people power at its best, good job :)

Hey hey, ho ho, Old Man Nattrass has got to go, hey hey, ho ho...

As for anonymous emails, it is apparently your hand up Dr Nattrass's skirt that is speaking for him like a Sesame Street puppet.
:rofl:

Can't say that I'm terribly upset about the project being knocked back, though. It still hasn't grown on me after four months of looking at it.

I acknowledge the design's boldness and presence, but it doesn't look right in that location. I'm all for contrasting old against new, but in this case, I don't think it works too well. And if I did like it, I wouldn't want it to be tucked away so far back from both of the streets it faces onto.

So, while I wouldn't mind seeing it constructed- mainly because it might encourage boldness in other building designs- I think it's highly compromised in its current form and location, and I won't be losing sleep over it if it does not proceed.

dallastexjr, i must say, youre a legend haha
thatll stick it to 'em

Gotta say I agree with Bonga...

And, also believe that the redesign of the town hall enterance needs a park in that space. The area is a little dead at the moment, got to get some life back in it.

Yeh i agree with Bon for the most part too!

The bit I liked about this was the entrance. If they kept that as a gateway to Nattrass's Cathedral Square idea I'd support that. I didnt like the bulky office element, seemed silly to build such a nothing building on such a historical site.

Just the bold design of the Barrack Street facade was the real winner of this proposal. Not sure about Nattrass's argument about preserving the historical significance of the site by not building anything I mean the site has already been built over then demolished in the 70's so the original site has far been desecrated long ago.

I still hate the dumb fuck anyway. Ill sum it up in one word: Die.

Hahaha and when they write back to you, ill write one.

luving it!:lol:

. . "Preserving the historical significance of the site?" Pffft..there's nothing there to see. It's 2006 and I bet half of Perth wouldn't even know/care where the Perth Town Hall is. Build this and the site becomes an Icon. I bet generations will stop and admire the boldness of each era with its contrasting designs.

I respect the counter views of those who didn't like the project. Unfortunately I still disagree with some of the comments.
With such a bold face onto Barrack Street the rest of the structure almost doesn't matter, although my own personal view is that the whole building would have worked well. Nor do I think it would have dated badly - it would have hardly been seen anyway.
If our Tin Gods are suddenly going to be precious about the historical significance of this site, then plant a park with the usual manicured lawns and a fancy tree in the centre, stick in a couple of life-size bronze sculptures with axes, and be done with it. However, besides a few shitty-arsed pigeons and some drunks, who else is going to visit it? In the heavy shadow of the Town Hall the site is pretty dead anyway.
To be honest, I had never even noticed the old Treasury Building next door until a couple of years ago; that's how unnoticeable the building is to me. As for the Town Hall, it is often mocked in international architecture literature as being overly-derivative and ultimately built in a 'mock' style. What our 'civic lords' are actually trying to preserve in this area is just about anybody's guess.
By and large, we have practically no history to compare to say London, Rome or Jerusalem. And for the little we have (our aboriginal culture aside), we've already shown it contempt by smashing down some of our most significant architectural gems; this is the chequered history we are stuck with. (Actually, and with respect to those who disagree, to me the only building in Perth that can stand tall on the world stage is His Majesty's Theatre, and even then that style is dime-a-dozen in London, as beautiful as it is.)
Let's defy our historical butchery and make a bold statement that says, "Yes, we fucked up the city of Perth, and we can't re-create the past. However, look what we can do now."
But no, we get a political reactionary who can't win in an open battle, but has to be subversive in order to win a fight, and then has the gall to insist he shares the opinion of Perth residents, most of whom cannot even decorate their kitchens.
I say to Nattrass see a seer and get some vision.

Spot on dallastexjr!

Oh btw, I forgot to mention in my last post, Nattarse is a wanker.

we have a suburb called inglewood?
shit.

i went to primary school with the fremantle mayors daughters.

how long till the next election thing for mayor?

how long till the next election thing for mayor?
Not soon enough!

lol that didnt answer my question

I respect the counter views of those who didn't like the project. Unfortunately I still disagree with some of the comments.
With such a bold face onto Barrack Street the rest of the structure almost doesn't matter, although my own personal view is that the whole building would have worked well. Nor do I think it would have dated badly - it would have hardly been seen anyway.
If our Tin Gods are suddenly going to be precious about the historical significance of this site, then plant a park with the usual manicured lawns and a fancy tree in the centre, stick in a couple of life-size bronze sculptures with axes, and be done with it. However, besides a few shitty-arsed pigeons and some drunks, who else is going to visit it? In the heavy shadow of the Town Hall the site is pretty dead anyway.
To be honest, I had never even noticed the old Treasury Building next door until a couple of years ago; that's how unnoticeable the building is to me. As for the Town Hall, it is often mocked in international architecture literature as being overly-derivative and ultimately built in a 'mock' style. What our 'civic lords' are actually trying to preserve in this area is just about anybody's guess.
By and large, we have practically no history to compare to say London, Rome or Jerusalem. And for the little we have (our aboriginal culture aside), we've already shown it contempt by smashing down some of our most significant architectural gems; this is the chequered history we are stuck with. (Actually, and with respect to those who disagree, to me the only building in Perth that can stand tall on the world stage is His Majesty's Theatre, and even then that style is dime-a-dozen in London, as beautiful as it is.)
Let's defy our historical butchery and make a bold statement that says, "Yes, we fucked up the city of Perth, and we can't re-create the past. However, look what we can do now."
But no, we get a political reactionary who can't win in an open battle, but has to be subversive in order to win a fight, and then has the gall to insist he shares the opinion of Perth residents, most of whom cannot even decorate their kitchens.
I say to Nattrass see a seer and get some vision.

Well said.

Perth might not have a town hall that can be compared to the likes of similar buildings in Rome,Amsterdam,London or New York,but Perth has a very different history(and a much shorter one) than these cities.
I like the town hall and treasury buildings because they are humble,they are reminders of Perth's past as a struggling colony.They need to remain here and be looked after because of this imo.
Simple brick structures of little international significance they may be,but they are very,very significant to Perth.

For sure. I'm not knocking our heritage. Personally I love the Town Hall, and once I actually noticed the Treasury Building I loved the fact that it is so plain. I love the old buildings still remaining around Hay and Wellington Streets, and they are definitely significant to the short history of Perth and Western Australia.
I hate how Nattrass is trying to build a shrine around a couple of buildings of so-so merit which are already dwarfed by some hideous developments on the same block. I feel that a modern, dramatic, architecturally unique building alongside will actually enhance their appearance and draw attention to them, much more than a stuffy old red-brick, four-storey replica trying hard to fit in. Tourists and locals will just continue to walk past without so much as a second look.

Amen to that.I totally agree.

For sure. I'm not knocking our heritage. Personally I love the Town Hall, and once I actually noticed the Treasury Building I loved the fact that it is so plain. I love the old buildings still remaining around Hay and Wellington Streets, and they are definitely significant to the short history of Perth and Western Australia.
I hate how Nattrass is trying to build a shrine around a couple of buildings of so-so merit which are already dwarfed by some hideous developments on the same block. I feel that a modern, dramatic, architecturally unique building alongside will actually enhance their appearance and draw attention to them, much more than a stuffy old red-brick, four-storey replica trying hard to fit in. Tourists and locals will just continue to walk past without so much as a second look.

Definately. The original proposal was so good, because of this, and its so sad to see it go. Natrass may think that it will turn people looking the other way, in which fact, even if its completely hideous, if it stands out and makes a statement, the nearby heritage buildings will get a notice, especially because they are in front of this.

You really know your stuff dallast! Very very well put.

Lol. I don't know about that. Probably I just have a strong opinion on this building, since it represented a real, substantial change in the typical attitude of our government and cronies. I am doubly disappointed that, like an old alcoholic, they have reverted to the mental path of addiction they feel most comfortable with - narrow minded, conservative and populist. Nattrass represents everything I once left Perth for. Thank god he's going soon. At least we can make fun of the fact he has the word 'ass' in his name.

It Sounds like the Mayor has looked for self satisfaction in his own beliefs, it's this type of self interest and self gratification is what really has hurt the credibility and any perceived value left of our lowest level of government.

If he wanted respect and be looked at in an opinion of gratitude then he would be for posed to look ahead to the needs of the community. It’s the I DON’T CARE mind set that has him ignoring everyone around him, to be a Major you don’t require any special defined specialty and to listen to intelligent and informed people is his god damn job.

Very very well put.
Agreed. Even though I have mixed feelings about the project's design in its current form, I agree with most of what Dallas has said; particularly regarding the silly extreme extent to which the council want to protect this site.

Check out this image from this thread (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=409913&page=2):
http://www.slwa.wa.gov.au/images/pd341/341586PD.jpg

In spite of the fact that the Town Hall is in the foreground (and therefore naturally much more prominent than if the shot were taken from another angle), I think this illustrates that a large building can occupy the site, with little or no setback, without threatening to diminish the 'presence' or heritage value of the adjacent buildings.

Maybe Nattrass doesn't have enough faith in the integrity of the old buildings to allow them to hold their own against a new neighbour?

Why was that building demolished?

You would think that a building would only come down if the site was being redeveloped, but to pull it down and leave nothing... the government (Nattrass) must have had something to do with it!

Well actually the building had to go before they could do restoration work on the town hall. That old R&I bank building encroached right onto the old townhall bricks. Infact I am pretty sure they knocked out some minor parts of the Town Hall when they originally built the bank building.

Hmmm... guess I was wrong about that building not diminishing the Town Hall, then. :) Maybe that's part of the reason why they are so sensitive about the site.

Jeez, I apparently have so say much to say on this subject...

This new situation is different to the first one. That first building was just plain wrong in so many ways - too tall, too square, too bland, ad infinitum. It came from an era of practically no good design anywhere in the world.

The new building, for a start, is glass. The front (controversial) section would have been the height of, or lower than, the Town Hall and old Treasury Building. The rest of the glass construction would have meandered around the back without, I believe, taking away from the overall effect of the heritage buildings. There was only one other street-facing frontage, and that would have been opposite Cinema City (I mean, I rest my case).

I love this word and I'll use it again, but the juxtaposition of the styles made for fascinating viewing, and would have drawn more tourists and locals to it in a day than currently visits there in a year.

I spent an afternoon in the foyer of the Town Hall last year at a WA AIDS Council exhibition taking tickets, and I can tell you that about 4 people went past outside in the afternoon. One of those was a homeless man who used the space between the two buildings to drink some scotch, smoke several cigarettes and have a nap. Not one person took a photograph, nor did I notice a single person turn their heads toward the building. Other than some tumbleweed, pieces of rubbish and a strong breeze, there is very, very little activity taking place around that building, and most of it is focussed on the cinema.

Does Nattrass really believe hordes of Japanese and other visitors are going to crowd around and admire the two or three buildings which comprise his "Cathedral Square", when even Americans come from a country with an older history than ours? Or that local school children en masse will descend upon the area with history books in hand and admire the statue of himself in the park?

He has to understand that the PCC cyclone has already hit - most of the fabulous buildings in Perth are gone, and this is what we are left with. He would do better concentrating his efforts in creating eating areas and restaurants above the Hay Street Mall, where people can look up above the shop signs and admire the rather gorgeous building styles still adorning this street. Old styles work quite well alongside new in the Mall and elsewhere, so why should it not be the same by the old Treasury Building? Especially, as I've said before, it is flanked by some monstrosities already. Does he plan to rip those out too?

I think it boils down to the fact that he can't stand not getting his own way. He is probably a bully, and where he cannot get his way legitimately, he seeks to do so in quiet rooms behind people's backs. I only admire his astuteness as a politician, but it would be a far better thing if it weren't serving the dark side :)

:cheers1:

So how many Cathedral Square's does this guy want anyhow? Offcourse we all want the one he promised years and years and years and years ago but another in the area to be development! Plus there's the lawn area in front of the Cathedral fronting the Tce as well.
:ohno:
I'm even more convinced, the guy is deranged.

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/1892/cat4ca.jpg
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/5886/map2c5vv.jpg
There is no excuse for the government not to proceed with this project and it makes me so angry!!

what a waste of perfectly good city land, if you have that amount of land, build somethin good on it, not a 35m piece of crap (excuse the language).. same for the Cathedral Square aswell :(

what ever happened to voting in a new lord mayor...

what disappoints me is that i'm sure all these councillors are well travelled people and have seen what's out there and yet continue to approve these uninspiring projects...

i would ask of them, if they would be satisfied with a concrete gravestone... to mark their existence... my guess is no... so why leave such a crap legacy..

My guess would be arrogance. They probably go abroad like a dumb Aussie or Yank, seeing the world only to compare it to how good they have it at home.

Or it's the NIMBY principle at work again; it looks great elsewhere, but not in Perth - perish the thought that we might draw attention to ourselves.

Here's the new plan of attack (from today's The West). Tell you what, this one is going nowhere fast.

Nattrass' dream of public square for city a step closer
GARETH PARKER

Lord Mayor Peter Nattrass' long-held vision for a public square in the heart of the city near St Georges Cathedral has won fresh momentum - but any plans for a refurbishment of the Old Treasury buildings appear as far away as ever.

Department of Housing and Works plans for an ultra-modern, steel-and-glass office building in the middle of the heritage-listed Old Treasury buildings were scuttled late last year after behind-the-scenes lobbying by Dr Nattrass.

The Lord Mayor, who could not be contacted for comment yesterday, believed the plans were insensitive to the 120-year-old Treasury buildings and neighbouring Town Hall.

Dr Nattrass also objected to the loss of Foundation Park, a small public open space south of the Town Hall believed to be the spot where a tree was felled to mark the establishment of the Swan River Colony.

A report prepared for a Perth City Council planning committee meeting tonight reveals a new way forward, with the council and Department of Housing and Works set to embark on a joint design and feasibility study for the Town Hall precinct.

The study will examine, among other things, knocking down the 1960s-era Law Chambers office building between the Town Hall and St George's Cathedral to create a new public square. This would require the council and/or the State Government to either buy or compensate the landowners, the Perth Diocesan Trustees and Public Trustee, which could cost tens of millions of dollars.

The Cathedral Square concept has long been boosted by Dr Nattrass and urban planning think tank CityVision. The council has appointed CityVision chairman Ken Adam as a consultant to the feasibility study.

Mr Adam said yesterday that Cathedral Square and any redevelopment of the Old Treasury buildings were interrelated issues that could not be separated.
The Law Chambers building's underground carpark, for example, would probably be retained for tenant parking for any new development at the Old Treasury site.

“The thinking in the past, certainly on the part of the Government, was let's get the Treasury building out of the way and then maybe we'll look at Cathedral Square later,” Mr Adam said. “I've been arguing for many years now that you can't deal with one without dealing with the other.”

The feasibility study, which will go ahead if Perth councillors approve it at next week's council meeting, will also examine design rules for any new development at the Old Treasury buildings and the possibility of moving the City of Perth library into the old buildings.

Yes, caught it in this morning's paper and laughed 'til I was wet. Not only can they not deal properly with the one thing, but they can't deal with the one thing until they've dealt with the other.

That's two things!

Not sure these fuckwits are up to this kind of challenge. Maybe Natter's Ass can go do some backroom wheeling and dealing again to get something (his thing, of course) happening.

not another frigging square

What a joke. I have no faith at all in this project.

"Dr Nattrass also objected to the loss of Foundation Park, a small public open space south of the Town Hall believed to be the spot where a tree was felled to mark the establishment of the Swan River Colony."

Oh really now be serious? Nobody has a clue were the first tree fell.

Anyhow do people know what it would look like? The Treasury building? Town hall and the Church? would become one public open space? Also what about that short version of mount ****** house down the road would all these buildings be cleared away because i got no idea what his plan is? Im not totally against the Idea and im also sure modern design could be incorperated into it if we had open minds. If they can get it started ive got no objection as one of my ansestor's helped build the town hall.

Hotel back in Treasury revamp mix
The West Australian 7 March 2007

The Old Treasury buildings could be redeveloped as a luxury hotel in a
new twist to the protracted debate over their future use. Housing and Works Minister Michelle Roberts revealed yesterday she had directed her department to explore the feasibility of incorporating a five-star hotel into a redevelopment of the 120-year-old former government offices as part of a joint planning study set to be undertaken with Perth City Council.
Mrs Roberts also backed Lord Mayor Peter Nattrass' dream of a so-called Cathedral Square, a public plaza created by demolishing the 1960s era Law Chambers and Public Trustees building on Hay Street, saying the future of the entire precinct needed to be considered together. Fresh talk of a hotel brings the Treasury buildings full circle. A $40 million proposal by Mirvac-Fini to turn the historic offices into a hotel collapsed in June 2001. Mrs Roberts said previous plans, pursued by her department for most of last year, to integrate an ultramodern office building with the heritage-listed Treasury buildings were still on the table, but they had caused concern with the Perth council and the broader community. Meanwhile, increasing demand for high-end hotel accommodation meant a hotel could now be viable. "Clearly lots of people were nervous about the original proposal and
if we can find an option that has the broad agreement of the City of Perth
and also the West Australian community... I think that would be a
great outcome," she said. "The demand for both office space and five-star hotel accommodation means we have a chance of making it addm up.'' Mrs Roberts said she believed Dr Nattrass would be prepared to support a taller, slimmer tower on the Old Treasury site if it was not overbearing of the old buildings or neighbouring Town Hall. This could create an opportunity for office space on lower levels and hotel rooms on
upper levels. Mrs Roberts believed it was realistic that a proposal could be put to tender by the end of this year. No detailed costings have been
done, but a new hotel and refurbished Treasury buildings and the creation of Cathedral Square could cost $100 million or more. Dr Nattrass could not be contacted last night.

prolly busy rubbing one out over his year 5 masterplan drawings of cathedral square...

: |

This is so typical of Perth. Feasibility study after feasibility study and 20 years later if they decide on soemthing it'll be based on some obsolete study anyway. Embarassing!!
Why the f*** do we need more open spaces for anyway it's just going to attract more scum junkies and vandals. Anyway I'm not saying anything that hasn't been saod before, just venting!!

Well I've got no problem with his idea to demolish the Law Chambers. That building is hidious. But I'm not sure about replacing it with a square.

Lets say Cathedral Sq did go ahead, Natrass still won't allow Cinema City to be greater than its current height. So that whole area will be a waste of space! Urrrrghhh

Cathedral Square .. PCC field of dreams.

I'm not totally against the square idea either. But it's highly likely nothing will come of this for this decade. And in the mean time we have more wasted and under utilized prime buildings and land.

It just pisses me off that there was so much campaigning against the former plans and now the whole site will remain stagnate for an indefinite amount of time. Specially after the fiasco that is North Bridge Square (again another prime site that will sit wasted for many years).

Look a square could work if surrounded by a mix of heritage and new quality development with plenty of alfresco bars and cafes.

A square could also work if it was like Fed Square in Melbourne which isn't too big. (which leaves too much wasted space) and there is always activities occurring there using the big screen etc.

If you leave it as a big boring open space it is wasteful.

Could happen quicker if the gov makes up it's mind what it wants and then says to a developer " here build a hotel here we are going to do this "
As long as it is viable it wouldn't take long since they have already been interested in a hotel before.

Lets hope.:hahaha:

How about a Westin? I am thinking a cross of the Melbourne and Sydney ones. Melbourne is built at Melbourne City Square. While Sydney's is housed in the very grand old General Post Office at No1 Martin Place.

Hotel back in Treasury revamp mix
The West Australian 7 March 2007

"Clearly lots of people were nervous about the original proposal and
if we can find an option that has the broad agreement of the City of Perth
and also the West Australian community... I think that would be a
great outcome," she said. "The demand for both office space and five-star hotel accommodation means we have a chance of making it addm up.'' Mrs Roberts said she believed Dr Nattrass would be prepared to support a taller, slimmer tower on the Old Treasury site if it was not overbearing of the old buildings or neighbouring Town Hall. This could create an opportunity for office space on lower levels and hotel rooms on
upper levels.

What a load of old penis-puss.

Finding a 'broad agreement of the CoP and the WA community' will result in a piss poor, sad assed, what-we've-always-got watered down piece of shite.

How wonderful that "Dr Nattrass would be prepared to support a taller blah blah if not overbearing blah blah." So long as it's bland, he is happy.

Can someone please find out if that cunt had lunch with a certain Mr Burke recently? We've gotta be able to nail his sorry ass for something...

What a load of old penis-puss.

Finding a 'broad agreement of the CoP and the WA community' will result in a piss poor, sad assed, what-we've-always-got watered down piece of shite.

How wonderful that "Dr Nattrass would be prepared to support a taller blah blah if not overbearing blah blah." So long as it's bland, he is happy.

Can someone please find out if that cunt had lunch with a certain Mr Burke recently?

lol.

i'd imagine if he had lunch would brian burke there might be some more on offer...

By the time this gets to a plan, he will be 6 feet under.

lol, next week then. If time means we get something spectactular then i can wait. If time means we get a plaza, i'm going to be sick. We can have a plaza AND hotel/office tower. Make the lobby of the tower gardens for the community to enjoy. A rainforrest for the lobby of a hotel sounds good to me :)

What are the chances of us knocking all the surrounding bitches down and building a 250 metre mother??? Ahhhhh this is so frustrating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its such prime land and man!!!!!!!!! Ahhhhhhh.

It cant be another square cause theres enough of them already. Doesnt old Pete get it??? And yes we do need more hotels but we need some serious renovations to be done. How about knocking it dont and build something that intergates well with the surrounding cathedral etc.

Ahhhh. Il stop now with the bitching but it doesnt change how much im frustrated. What the chances of replacing old Pete with young, sexy (ok not) Allanah???

Cathedral Square land tipped to cost $50m
8th March 2007, The West Australian

Land for a proposed public square between Perth Town Hall, Old Treasury buildings and St George’s Cathedral could be worth as much as $50 million according to property industry sources — a bill that would need to be picked up by Perth City Council and the State Government if the ambitious plan is to go ahead.

The West Australian revealed this week that Lord Mayor Peter Nattrass’ dream of creating a so-called Cathedral Square on the site of the 1960s-era Law Chambers and Public Trustee buildings had won the backing of Housing and Works Minister Michelle Roberts, a clear sign of fresh co-operation between the State Government and the PCC on one of Perth’s most important heritage sites.

But the enormous expense of the land — which does not include the cost of developing the square itself — is likely to stretch PCC finances and State Cabinet’s commitment to the project.

The Law Chambers and Public Trustee buildings — which appear from the street as one contiguous property — have a lettable area of about 12,000sqm and could be worth $40 million to $50 million given central Perth’s record office occupancy rates, industry sources said yesterday. That figure would not include the cost of developing the square, or the redevelopment of the adjacent Treasury buildings into a hotel, as Ms Roberts proposed this week.

Dr Nattrass yesterday acknowledged the expense but said it was a visionary project. He said the new co-operation gave him confidence the complex project would come to fruition.

“It’s a very significant piece of expenditure but if this council is going to retain the public’s respect . . . then so be it, we’re going to have to contribute a large amount of money,” he said.

“If you look at the whole picture of a 100-year benefit to the city of Perth, it isn’t (too expensive).” The square has won praise from many quarters.

A Hotel for the Treasury?

Now THAT is worth supporting. Tourists in the area would be very welcome. I think Nattrarse may actually be onto something here. A pivotal new POS development, a new hotel and the demolition of an ugly building.

I will eagerly await future plans.

The only problem I have with a hotel in the treasury is that is it would be very small and would be nothing more then a boutique hotel. Unless an adjoining tower was built next to it to house most of the rooms.

Good idea. And to piss off Nattrass, it should be the same building design that began all this hoo-ha.

"A pivotal new POS" Yes but does he want to clear the whole block of modern buildings and leave the heritage. Aka law chambers, ABN ARMO MORGANS, ect..

Is it from Barrack Street to Peir Street or is it devided up by Cathederal Avenue.
From the talk i guess the heritage area will include the Town Hall but the Cathederal will be it's own square. Ive never spent alot of time around there.

Ipggi - everyone (PCC and State Govt) is now talking building a new building in the "courtyard" of the OTB. Nattrass supports that, he just wants a smaller footprint and something that doesn't clash with the TH, OTB as obviously as the old office proposal did on the Barrack St frontage.

Ipggi - everyone (PCC and State Govt) is now talking building a new building in the "courtyard" of the OTB. Nattrass supports that, he just wants a smaller footprint and something that doesn't clash with the TH, OTB as obviously as the old office proposal did on the Barrack St frontage.

As has been stated on this thread before, Nattrass wants a blend-in piece of crap. The old proposal was superb in the way it contrasted with the buildings either side of it - I don't agree that it clashed.

I hope they don't can the idea just cos of the price they would of known a block that size wouldn't be cheap but if the allow something decent they will get their money back easily

In WABN, Nattrass said this 'will be bigger than the development of Forrest Place'. I think he and the rest of the PCC should be working at making Forrest place the best civic square in Australia. It has a hell of a lot more going for it than this proposal, a treck from the main shopping precinct for some and also public transport.

Forest place ... knock down that pedestian walkway between Myer and the Albert Facey building. Get rid of the small carpark directly under and open it all up to street level. Then stick a big monument or fountain in the newly created open space :) My 2cents.

is this square thing, going to be any bigger than what stirling gardens is?

well were not sure its going to be an open place. i seriously hope not anyways.

The only problem I have with a hotel in the treasury is that is it would be very small and would be nothing more then a boutique hotel. Unless an adjoining tower was built next to it to house most of the rooms.

The Treasury Building is actually a bit larger than it at first looks. It could easily be at least 100 rooms at 5 star standard in just the old part of the building even if they kept the enitre lower floor for function rooms etc. 100 rooms isn't a big hotel by any means but its certainly not boutique.

Just looking at the old plans, they could replace the existing 40's additions and either replace them with a more modern extension (further increasing the capacity of the hotel) or they could turn it into a European style courtyard with access off Barrack st. It would be a great place to have a few restaurants and cafes.

Thats true girlyman. I guess the Medina Grand is 5 star with a 138 rooms and that wouldn't be too different in size to the Treasury. Though having said that, it's not like the Convention Centre precinct is buzzing with life because of the hotel there.

^^
The hotel may be incorporated into the new tower.

Mrs Roberts said she believed Dr Nattrass would be prepared to support a taller, slimmer tower on the Old Treasury site if it was not overbearing of the old buildings or neighbouring Town Hall. This could create an opportunity for office space on lower levels and hotel rooms on
upper levels.


Well I won't say anything until I see the new plans. At least one good thing that will come out of this is the State Government is now keen to redevelop the Cathedral Square. Without them, the CoP had no hope. Surprised to hear Nattrass will support a taller tower:nuts:

Also why do they have to wait until the end of the year! Charles Landry was right when he said there was no sense of urgency in this city.:ohno:

Morning all...I see that alot of this forum's focus has been on the Donaldson & Warn "crystalline' design proposal for the Old Treasury.

Is anyone aware of UWA's Design Studio 401 proposals? (i.e. the parabolic arch and law society college).

Is there any public document(s) that assesses these proposals? Any help would be greatly appreciated...


Cheers:nuts:

Welcome.

The government only released the Donaldson/Warn version in full and 3 other concept designs prior to them winning the competition.

Sorry I can't help ya there. Mayby try to get in contact with that department at UWA or the DHW.

Cheers.

Thanks Dilahl...I've spoken with DHW. I was kinda hoping that someone in here might of seen something...oh well:ohno:

BTW...keep the discussions coming. I'm already half way through Curtin's Planning course and I've only just stumbled into this forum to find many research hours could have been saved.

Cheers

:nocrook:

hey don't just use us as research! Post and have fun :)

Thanks Dilahl...I've spoken with DHW. I was kinda hoping that someone in here might of seen something...oh well:ohno:

BTW...keep the discussions coming. I'm already half way through Curtin's Planning course and I've only just stumbled into this forum to find many research hours could have been saved.

Cheers

:nocrook:


Can you tell us a bit about the course? What you like and dont like about it?