http://www.ciria.org.uk/recycling/images/regions.gif

North West
http://www.countrygoer.org/Ullswater.jpg

http://www.wildlifetrust.org.uk/lancashire/images/reserves/morecambe%20bay.jpg

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/ewm/001ewm/lg/NwPendleSheepVw4223.jpg

North East
http://www.london2012.org/NR/rdonlyres/6A1B032B-9198-44CF-9AA1-3D519E964700/0/northeast_environment.jpg

http://travelpuppy.com/england/images/england-southeast.jpg

http://www.ejr.ndo.co.uk/dunsteb.jpg

Yorkshire
http://www.rolfschwarz.com/Pictures/Yorkshire%20Dales%204.jpg

http://www.picturesofengland.com/images/nationalparks/Yorkshire-1086349756.jpg

http://www.ingletonwaterfallswalk.co.uk/images/waterfalls/thorntonforce.jpg

East Midlands
http://www.countryside.gov.uk/Images/Furrows%20Salmonby160x160_tcm2-9945.jpg

http://www.countryside.gov.uk/Images/east_mid_tcm2-11911.jpg

West Midlands
http://www.cprewm.org.uk/battleground.jpg

http://www.ruralsupportwestmids.org/images/1WH0053S.JPG

http://www.ramblers.org.uk/info/parks/images/shropshireview.jpg

East of England
http://www.studyholidays.co.uk/images/views/Horsey-Mere-Lscape-Nfk-Broa.jpg

http://www.sheringhamgolfclub.co.uk/images/train.jpg

http://www.lowerwoodfarm.co.uk/areaPhotos/Norfolk_Broads600.jpg

South East
http://www.calstatela.edu/faculty/acolvil/geotime/dover_cliffs.jpg

http://www.contours.co.uk/self-guided/images/the-needles.jpg

http://www.ukstudentlife.com/Travel/Tours/England/IsleOfWight/FreshwaterBay.jpg

South West
http://www.adam.tinworth.name/pics/jul04pfocean.jpg

http://www.dartmoor-farm-accommodation.co.uk/animage/dartmoor-2.jpg

http://www.focus-cornwall.co.uk/final%20images/cornwall_coast%20copy.jpg

Nice thread.

North West for me, very closely followed by South West.

Or should that be the other way round?

Yes, I'll swap that actually. South West.

Excellent thread! :)

I would say probably the North East/Yorkshire.

What a good choice of thread - it would be appreciated if people can recommend any particular places of interest? When I stayed in Devon last year I visited a little outdoor centre called Escot which was beautiful (and great fun) and then went to go to a waterfall which is the highest in England but it was closed to visitors :( - somewhere near Exeter though.

And best natural beauty? The South West by a country mile - largely unspoilt and some breathtaking scenery :)

in my opinion you can't beat the cumbrian valleys and lakes, it's jaw dropping scenery, i find it hard to believe it's only 1 hour from the hustle and bustle of Liverpool & Manchester, it seems like another world.

Scottish highlands. If it were a Britain poll........

North West.

gotta post some pictures:

some sheep:
http://www.visitcumbria.com/wc/wasdalesheep.jpg
wast water:
http://www.visitcumbria.com/wc/wastwtr3.jpg
strathmore, keswick:
http://www.strathmorekeswick.co.uk/images/strathmorekeswick_r1_c1.jpg
boat on windermere:
http://www.elh.co.uk/images/christmas.jpg
a ferry on windermere:
http://www.lakes-pages.com/lake4.JPG
coniston village:
http://www.visitcumbria.com/amb/coniston.jpg

i would say nw with the lake district; but then im baised arent i?

agree sw is right up there, and also that scottish highlands would prob win a british 1

Scottish highlands. If it were a Britain poll.......
Thats the reason I didnt include Scotland and Wales. Scotland would definately have come first with all the isles, lochs and mountains.

south west. devon and cornwall are amazing. my personal favourite is north devon, around exmoor. its stunning.

This is too hard. So many beautiful areas. Liverpool is fortunate enough to be not far from North Wales, the Lake District and the Peak District.

North West, South West, Yorkshire, North East, South East, East Midlands, West Midlands, East, London.

Where's London? You do realise it's officially a region right?

The Lower Lee Valley, or the Wetland Centre hardly compares to the Lake District. :D

I vote North West and South West, problem is I can't decide between them.

London can also be counted in the south east, and anyway lets be honest; what chance does London have when put against Yorkshires National Parks, Scotland, Lake District...etc

London can also be counted in the south east, and anyway lets be honest; what chance does London have when put against Yorkshires National Parks, Scotland, Lake District...etc
But it's nice to see London come out bottom sometimes.

dead heat between northwest & southwest - derwent water vs north cornwall coast. NW wins, because i count myself as an area of outstanding natural beauty.

North West, South West, Yorkshire, North East, South East, East Midlands, West Midlands, East, London.

Where's London? You do realise it's officially a region right?
As a city region, London wouldnt stand a chance. I did look to see if London had any countryside so I could include it in the poll. I instead got a load of stuff about rural Londonderry.

Northwest/Southwest.

Yes, I've noticed how Lancashire have appropriated Cumbria to call themselves England's North West. Cheating or what! :)

But seriously, I would say THE NORTH (of England) and maybe SCOTLAND, and leave it at that.

Of the areas I've been in, I'd say SW, followed closely by Yorkshire, NW and Eastern England. What? No London? I say London has great natural beauty!:)

Liek everyone else it's a tie between South West and North West, they are both stunning, but I think I'll go for the south west, for the beautiful beaches.

I love the Cornish Coast with it's beaches and cliffs. Port Isaac is one of my favourites.

South West definately

Portcurno, Lizard point and the Isles of Scilly are my favourite places in the world after birmingham and maidstone :)

North West baby! Best natural beauty, best archtecture, best economy... we rock!

Yorkshire for me. It has everything. Stunning scenery, interesting geology and potholes, I love potholes by the way (I'd love to do a bit of potholing one day). Whitescar caves Gaping Gill wonderful. Moorland. Dales. Lots of great little fishing towns and villages. Massive cliffs dropping dramatically to the sea - lovely area. The south west is nice also - when it's not gridlocked.

North Wales if it was in the poll.

Gotta give Dartmouth a mention, probably the most beautiful natural setting for a town in England.
http://www.virtualtea.com/images/DartmouthTown.jpg

http://www.visionwebsites.co.uk/Uploads/Site304/Images/dartmouthview.jpg

I love the Mendip Hills, southwest.

God that last pic does not look like its in the UK.

^This beach is also only within half a mile ;)
http://www.kingsbridge.info/blackpool.jpg

Best I've EVER been too, including everywhere abroad.

South West for me

The beautiful blue sea's, the pristine beaches, the hills and landscape, the pretty little villages....:drool:

On a sunny day parts of it don't even look like the UK.

North West is a close second.

got to be the South West, bloody stunning scenery down there. then the north-east in 2nd.

Good job you didnt include Wales and Scotland because they are clearly the best! lol ;)

South West England shits all over Wales!

I know this is English regions, but if you're doing beaches, I would say Scotland has far better beaches than anywhere in the UK including the South West. There are so many great regions for natural beauty in the UK, which are all so different. I don't know why one is the best really. I love the rolling green hills and valleys in the Dales, but also the barren windswept Moors. The Lake District offers a good experience as do The Peaks. I would probably say the north has better natural beauty as a whole though. Midlands/East/South East is a bit =/

South West England shits all over Wales!


Nah it doesnt! lol and lacking an arse (or maybe that would be you) would mean it cant shit on anything.

South West England shits all over Wales!

i would say its the other way around actually - north wales has ALL those things in the south west, and more -> pretty little villages, picturesque beaches, mountains, valleys, fields, forests etc.. you can see the welsh mountains from Liverpool

My top three English regions for natural beauty:

1. South West
2. West Midlands
3. North West

Wales would be top of that list though... but it's not an English region of course!

Well as someone born and raised in the Westcountry, I may be biased, but for me it has to be the South West. Within that though, Devon and Cornwall are the specific highlights. Somerset and Dorset, while having charm and being attractive are rather bland in many ways.

On a UK level there is not much to choose between the UK's entire west coast-cornwall, parts of Devon, most of Wales, and Scotland. Absolutely stunning.

I was going to vote for the Liverpool Bay Area, just to be partizan, like, but I can't find it. I imagine that someone has made the mistake of putting the fictitious 'North West' up instead, having been conned into believing that it really is a homogenous Ingerlush region that includes Liverpool?

:nuts:

I was going to vote for the Liverpool Bay Area, just to be partizan, like, but I can't find it. I imagine that someone has made the mistake of putting the fictitious 'North West' up instead, having been conned into believing that it really is a homogenous Ingerlush region that includes Liverpool?

:nuts:

thats a good point actually To, this is a City forum after all - this should be about the natural areas around the bigger cities of the UK, rather than the artificial areas of England.

Lake District/North(west) with the South West a close second for me.

Well Liverpool scores highly on that.

Sheffield's got a cracking location and hinterland but no water.

A real city needs a coast or mighty river...

if only I could create one of those threads with poll attached... what is the best greater city-region?

:)

I'm a beaches person so the south west for me. Second - the Yorkshire coast. Haven't been to the Lake District although it looks stunning.

if only I could create one of those threads with poll attached... what is the best greater city-region?

:)

why, the old county of Avon o' course :wink2:


voted south west (from the toe up to the gloucester) , s'pose there's bias in that :|

I know this is English regions, but if you're doing beaches, I would say Scotland has far better beaches than anywhere in the UK including the South West. There are so many great regions for natural beauty in the UK, which are all so different. I don't know why one is the best really. I love the rolling green hills and valleys in the Dales, but also the barren windswept Moors. The Lake District offers a good experience as do The Peaks. I would probably say the north has better natural beauty as a whole though. Midlands/East/South East is a bit =/

:lol: its freezing or crap weather most of the time there tho, the best beaches are in cornwall :yes:

voted south west (from the toe up to the gloucester) , s'pose there's bias in that :|

I know what you mean, I'm sure you can guess where I'm gonna vote :|

Having said that though it might just because I haven't seen the most beautiful parts of the other region but I live in the backyard of one of the most supposedly beautiful counties around, look...

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photos/08/26/082646_b3fbf008.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/124/402492429_11c66de865.jpg?v=0

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photos/67/19/671972_9283fc19.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1356/1146416152_5b287861f8.jpg?v=0

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/251/521811636_78ed330654.jpg?v=0

its a shame that Shropshire doesn't have a coast though, although it has a (relatively) direct and very scenic route to mid Wales and Snowdonias coasts :happy:

Hmmm, apparently its the biggest landlocked county of them all. I've never got the train to the Welsh coast, I'd imagine it to be very pretty if the drive is anything to go by.

Thats a typical London attitude. The weather in Scotland tends to be quite nice during the summer.

Thats a typical London attitude. The weather in Scotland tends to be quite nice during the summer.

maybe it came out wrong but it is the truth, its only in the hottest periods of summer u can actually enjoy it there and even then its not particularly hot, whereas in the southern parts of the country such as cornwall the weather is better and you get it for longer periods and generally more often over a year. this means the beaches get used more often, oh and lets not forget the waves :happy:.
the beaches in scotland hardly get used.

Yeah coz Brighton and Newquay are luuuuuuuverly in November lol! ;)

You're right though, it is fukkin baltic... actually no, its been really temperate these last few years, just pissing down with rain! :lol:

I used to live in Eastbourne; the winters there were WAY worse than they are here. Summers about the same.

Yeah coz Brighton and Newquay are luuuuuuuverly in November lol! ;)

You're right though, it is fukkin baltic... actually no, its been really temperate these last few years, just pissing down with rain! :lol:

newquay's for chumps :yes: (not saying anyone here is, but Newquay is for chumps) :yes: :okay:

I used to live in Eastbourne; the winters there were WAY worse than they are here. Summers about the same.

:| ok

I wouldnt know, helium. Never been.

The beaches in north west Scotland on a hot day are like paradise - white sand, blue sea, just a handful of people. On a rainly day they are dull but empty.

I think that just about sums it up. :D

The beaches in north west Scotland on a hot day are like paradise - white sand, blue sea, just a handful of people. On a rainly day they are dull but empty.

I think that just about sums it up. :D

hot days in scotland and hot days in the south are a little different. but more importantly you get more hot days down south and less rainy days. :yes:

Yes, that's true Itsy. But loads of hot days brings too many people to the south west leaving all their litter behind. Scotland's beaches are mostly unspoilt by tourism so one blazing hot day really is like paradise. :yes:

Don't expect to home with a bronzed body, you'll just have a relaxed and hassle-free time compared with the likes of Newquay. :shifty:

I wouldnt know, helium. Never been.

good, its meh :yes:

the beaches in Scot of the land look :drool: but the water's possibly even more refeshingly cold....

^^

Yes, Scotland is the only place where in the summer you have to go swimming in the sea wearing a coat and gloves. :|

And because of that, those beaches are a good place to go for people who find nekked bodies offensive. :yes:

^^

Yes, Scotland is the only place where in the summer you have to go swimming in the sea wearing a coat and gloves. :|

:yes:

:tongue: its just an observation foo'

so its true :bowtie:

In arctic Russia, they have a strange tradition of going onto a frozen lake, cutting a swimming pool-size opening in the ice and going for a swim :)

I can't make up my mind between the Northwest and the Southwest to I will abstain from voting. It's a nice dilemma though, don't you think?

I was going to vote for the Liverpool Bay Area, just to be partizan, like, but I can't find it. I imagine that someone has made the mistake of putting the fictitious 'North West' up instead, having been conned into believing that it really is a homogenous Ingerlush region that includes Liverpool?

There's a map on page one of this thread, dividing England up into sections. You don't have to agree with the politicisation of the regions to recognise that north is north, east is east etc.

Liverpool is, geographically speaking, in the north western corner of England. Cornwall is in the south west. Norwich is in the east.

As someone pointed out earlier, Liverpool is forunate to be located relatively close to two of the most beautiful parts of rural Britain - the English Lakes and the Welsh mountains. Choosing the Liverpool Bay area above those and other areas as having "the best natural beauty in England" shows more than partisanship, and something more akin to paranoia.

Liverpool Bay Region includes North Wales.

is it really so strange to consider an actual cultural, economic and social region that's existed for centuries instead of lines on a map designed to manage the plebs in the provinces from Whitehall?

I would have thought a forum about urbanity and creativity would have latched on to that rather than a concept of control and surburbanisation.

Well seeing as the title says 'English region' not Welsh, and that the best parts of North wales are actually the north west (ie miles away from liverpool) and that the landscape around liverpool bay area is quite flat, tidal and featureless, then i entirely agree that it 'shows more than partisanship, and something more akin to paranoia'

Alright we'll take Liverpool right out of it for now then.

When we do away with poxy national and political borders and consider real regions we'll offer up this.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/Liverpool_Bay.png/800px-Liverpool_Bay.png

:dunno: :nuts:

Thats a bit silly because that is still a huge area to be calling liverpool bay area! and you can physically see where wales starts

Can a cultural, economic and socially tied region not cross a border? North Wales is still Wales, nothing will alter that and the Welsh influence on Liverpool culture is ingrained just as the Liverpool culture permeates much of Flintshire, Conway, Denbighshire and Wrexham.

It's not a land grab or a political coup, it's a natural region with associated bonds.

You do also have to remember, in ancient times, Liverpool was actually part of Wales, and I think was classed as capital of North Wales, which is why it is in England now, as Edward II didn't want it being used for rebellion, so took it totally out of Wales, this was before the whole of Wales was co-opted as part of England.

[frustrated rant]The problem with 'Liverpool Bay' as expressed on this forum is that it completely discounts people in north Wales having non-Liverpudlian ties simply due to proximity. Welsh people who support LFC are still Welsh, not scouse. It's too complex an area in terms of identity to lump it in with Liverpool so that that city can have its own region. It has ties to Wales, ties to Liverpool, to Cheshire, even Manchester and Lancashire.

Liverpool should be as it was, a port city that looks to the world, not a cluster of parochial gerrymanderers who can't see further than Llandudno. Look at the image above; the city clings to the river, not the coast. Hamburg isn't ashamed of being Hamburg, so why do Liverpudlians on here need to bolster the place of their city by appropriating Welsh people who never visit it?[/rant over]

tbh alot of what's beautiful in these regions isn't natural at all some laces would be rather mediocre if human ksdfkfjsfj hadn't come around :blahblah:

well this thread needs pics :|

Cornwall, Penwith the end of the world so to speak:


Around Cape cornwall,


around Logans rock

South West gets my vote - Cornwall in particular. I think it compares for beauty with anything in the world.
The North West would have to be up there too. I am also very fond of the North Norfok coast. That really is very beautiful.

I'm torn between Cornwall and the Lakes.

Both breathtaking areas of natural beauty and both very different landscapes, but both equally as stunning.

[frustrated rant]The problem with 'Liverpool Bay' as expressed on this forum is that it completely discounts people in north Wales having non-Liverpudlian ties simply due to proximity. Welsh people who support LFC are still Welsh, not scouse. It's too complex an area in terms of identity to lump it in with Liverpool so that that city can have its own region. It has ties to Wales, ties to Liverpool, to Cheshire, even Manchester and Lancashire.

Liverpool should be as it was, a port city that looks to the world, not a cluster of parochial gerrymanderers who can't see further than Llandudno. Look at the image above; the city clings to the river, not the coast. Hamburg isn't ashamed of being Hamburg, so why do Liverpudlians on here need to bolster the place of their city by appropriating Welsh people who never visit it?[/rant over]

I can only go along with your point so far, as you've just summed up every region! What is the cultural cohesion of t'noowerthwest'? I thought we where talking landscape and geography anyhow, by your reckoning then the pennines can't exist as these are sectioned off into one northern region or another!

Liverpool IS an internationally outward looking city AND one that has a wider area of affiliation that goes further than it's city-region? The city has more in common with North Wales than with the rest of the 'North West', though, obviously it shares much with that region.... 'Regions' are multi-fasceted things after all.


:ohno:

some snaps of the north west (north east wirral) from flickr

Thurstaston common in the wirral by short scouser (http://www.flickr.com/photos/shortscouser/)
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/140/363976377_08bfee6160_b.jpg

the river dee, between north wales & wirral by The Proudman Oceanographic Lab (http://www.flickr.com/photos/proudman/)
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1071/1446154915_1959e55820_b.jpg

west kirby to hilbre island by deelightfulpix (http://www.flickr.com/photos/61276036@N00/)
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/179/367341115_142a1a12a7_o.jpg

west kirby by harry moon (http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrymoon/)
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/34/91526911_2a913ad1dd.jpg

Liverpool Bay Area/City Region/North Wales = Liverpool acknowledging the dominance of Manchester over the rest of north west England so instead of trying to compete looks the other way to North Wales ;)

Liverpool Bay Area/City Region/North Wales = Liverpool acknowledging the dominance of Manchester over the rest of north west England so instead of trying to compete looks the other way to North Wales ;)

Good one accy,Preston must be really shit for you to have such an obsession with another city,are things really that bad. :|

Liverpool Bay Area/City Region/North Wales = Liverpool acknowledging the dominance of Manchester over the rest of north west England so instead of trying to compete looks the other way to North Wales ;)A few weeks ago I was in a conversation with a nurse, at the Brampton Civic Hospital, who asked If I was Irish. Upon hearing my reply to the negative and explaining I was from Liverpool she informed me that they had just hired a new nurse who was from Liverpool. I met that nurse yesterday and he had the weirdest Scouse accent I had ever heard. It was in fact a distinct Woolyback accent. I enquired of him as to how a Scouser would acquire a Wooly accent to which he replied; "I'm not from Liverpool but from Preston, but no one has ever heard of Preston so I say I'm from Liverpool and everyone has heard of Liverpool".:)

Liverpool Bay Area/City Region/North Wales = Liverpool acknowledging the dominance of Manchester over the rest of north west England so instead of trying to compete looks the other way to North Wales ;)

:nuts:

Manchester has always been the capital of Lancashire, whilst Liverpool has been the 'capital' of North wales, the Isle of Man and Ireland to boot.. to say nothing of being an outward looking metropolis of global significance in its time!

A few weeks ago I was in a conversation with a nurse, at the Brampton Civic Hospital, who asked If I was Irish. Upon hearing my reply to the negative and explaining I was from Liverpool she informed me that they had just hired a new nurse who was from Liverpool. I met that nurse yesterday and he had the weirdest Scouse accent I had ever heard. It was in fact a distinct Woolyback accent. I enquired of him as to how a Scouser would acquire a Wooly accent to which he replied; "I'm not from Liverpool but from Preston, but no one has ever heard of Preston so I say I'm from Liverpool and everyone has heard of Liverpool".:)

So? :nuts:

I'm not quite sure what to make of this Liverpool embracing north Wales mullarkey. Every thing I've ever seen on the television coming out of Liverpool - plays by Alan Bleasdale, Ray Connlly, Will Russell etc - have never once made any reference to the Welsh influence on Liverpool. Never once. Each and every person I have ever met from Liverpool - and I mean every person I have met - have never alluded to their city having a Welsh influence. Generally they have taken the usual sheep shagging tack. We here constant reference to the Irish influence but nothing about the Welsh.

I remember BBC Wales news taking a vox pop on the streets of Liverpool on two separate occasions in the last year or so about Tryweryn and the Nat Eisteddfodd and on both occasions the overall impression I got (as much as you can get an impression from these things) seems to be an ambivalence towards the Welsh at best with perhaps a bit of contempt. Nowhere outside of this website have I ever come across any Liverpudlian who has ever tried to big up the Welsh connections.

Now all of a sudden north Wales is part of the Liverpool Bay area. Very curious. Don't want anything to do with a Manchester dominated north west. It seems to be based on the idea that lots of people from Liverpool go to north Wales on their holiday/retire there/move there. By that token Ceredigion should now be part of the West Midlands. I'm not sure it works like that.

Conversely the people I know from north Wales now living in Cardiff have a very ambivalent at best attitude to Liverpudlians especially the three I know from Rhyl and the one from Rhos who are pretty damning in their verdict on the influence that scousers have brought to bear on their hometowns.

Am I wrong? Perhaps I am. Can anyone enlighten me?

I'm not quite sure what to make of this Liverpool embracing north Wales mullarkey. Every thing I've ever seen on the television coming out of Liverpool - plays by Alan Bleasdale, Ray Connlly, Will Russell etc - have never once made any reference to the Welsh influence on Liverpool. Never once. Each and every person I have ever met from Liverpool - and I mean every person I have met - have never alluded to their city having a Welsh influence. Generally they have taken the usual sheep shagging tack. We here constant reference to the Irish influence but nothing about the Welsh.

I remember BBC Wales news taking a vox pop on the streets of Liverpool on two separate occasions in the last year or so about Tryweryn and the Nat Eisteddfodd and on both occasions the overall impression I got (as much as you can get an impression from these things) seems to be an ambivalence towards the Welsh at best with perhaps a bit of contempt. Nowhere outside of this website have I ever come across any Liverpudlian who has ever tried to big up the Welsh connections.

Now all of a sudden north Wales is part of the Liverpool Bay area. Very curious. Don't want anything to do with a Manchester dominated north west. It seems to be based on the idea that lots of people from Liverpool go to north Wales on their holiday/retire there/move there. By that token Ceredigion should now be part of the West Midlands. I'm not sure it works like that.

Conversely the people I know from north Wales now living in Cardiff have a very ambivalent at best attitude to Liverpudlians especially the three I know from Rhyl and the one from Rhos who are pretty damning in their verdict on the influence that scousers have brought to bear on their hometowns.

Am I wrong? Perhaps I am. Can anyone enlighten me?

The National Eisteddfod in England
other than london who have held it twice, the only other English city has been Liverpool:-

1879 - Birkenhead *
1884 - Liverpool *
1900 - Liverpool *
1917 - Birkenhead *
1929 - Liverpool *

A BBC Article
How Welsh is Liverpool? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/3482625.stm)


Labour Clwyd West MP Gareth Thomas:-

"The ties of affinity are far greater between north Wales and Liverpool than between north Wales and Cardiff," he said.

"We have got a health service which operates across the borders, people working and shopping there, and a cultural identity that continues.

"North Wales does look to Liverpool as the capital to this day."


as for you m8s from Rhyl, last time i went parts of it were full of smackheads and very run down.

as for you m8s from Rhyl, last time i went parts of it were full of smackheads and very run down.

perfect scouse territory then :wink2:






:hug:

Yoshef - last Eisteddfodd in 1929 when I would hazard a guess there were a lot more Welsh born living in Liverpool which would have made it viable. The vox pop I referred to previous would suggest that it wouldn't be viable or even welcome these days unless huge amounts of people were bussed in from over the border.

Gareth Thomas was brought up on Merseyside. The comments about Cardiff say as much as you need to know about his anti-devolution stance shared by a number of Welsh Labour MP's.

I don't think that article says anything other than historically lots of Welsh people went to Liverpool for work. They also went to Bristol. London. Birmingham. Etc.

The fact remains that never once have I ever heard the Welsh influence bigged up by any of Liverpools leading lights. Lily Savage refers to her favoured perfume as being Flame of Llandudno (pronounced incorectly) but thats about it.

Re Rhyl - the point they were making and why they left. They claim that generally it's down to nefarious individuals from Merseyside. That may be a scurrilous and unwarranted attack but that's what they say. The point is that be that true or not thats the opinion they hold which flies in the face of the alleged love in between north Wales and Liverpool.

the three I know from Rhyl and the one from Rhos who are pretty damning in their verdict on the influence that scousers have brought to bear on their hometowns.

These towns' very existences? Founded as Liverpool watering holes by Liverpool developers, financed by Liverpool money and connected to Liverpool by ferries at a time when road connections between the north Wales coast and the rest of Wales, as well as everywhere else, were almost nonexistant.

The fact remains that never once have I ever heard the Welsh influence bigged up by any of Liverpools leading lights.

:lol: I, for one, have never heard Max Boyce, the members of Goldie Looking Chain and those fellas off Dirty Sanchez ever big up north Wales. That's all I need to know! :nuts:

:lol: I, for one, have never heard Max Boyce, the members of Goldie Looking Chain and those fellas off Dirty Sanchez ever big up north Wales. That's all I need to know! :nuts:


They are all waiting for Sonia, Clare Sweeney and Stan Boardman to get in their first........:lol:

Yoshef - last Eisteddfodd in 1929 when I would hazard a guess there were a lot more Welsh born living in Liverpool which would have made it viable. The vox pop I referred to previous would suggest that it wouldn't be viable or even welcome these days unless huge amounts of people were bussed in from over the border.

Gareth Thomas was brought up on Merseyside. The comments about Cardiff say as much as you need to know about his anti-devolution stance shared by a number of Welsh Labour MP's.

I don't think that article says anything other than historically lots of Welsh people went to Liverpool for work. They also went to Bristol. London. Birmingham. Etc.

The fact remains that never once have I ever heard the Welsh influence bigged up by any of Liverpools leading lights. Lily Savage refers to her favoured perfume as being Flame of Llandudno (pronounced incorectly) but thats about it.

Sorry, you're saying that Liverpool, which is about 4 times the size of Cardiff sits right on top of North Wales, but has no influence on North Wales?

Sorry, you're saying that Liverpool, which is about 4 times the size of Cardiff sits right on top of North Wales, but has no influence on North Wales?

Nope - I'm saying I'm confused as to where this talk about Liverpool having been hugely influenced by the Welsh comes from given that outside of this forum my personal experience is that any influence the Welsh may have had is long forgotten/brushed under the carpet.

I'm also saying that I'm not sure why north Wales seems to have been 'appropriated' by Liverpool on the basis of geographical proximity and the fact that there are many people from Merseytside who live/retire/holiday there. My point about mid Wales holds good - shouldn't Birmingham be claiming the same of Ceredigion on the same basis.

I've asked for clarification as to why members from Liverpool feel this way because I really don't know. The north Walians that I know (and I speak for them not the whole of north Wales) don't see Liverpool as their de facto capital.

Nope - I'm saying I'm confused as to where this talk about Liverpool having been hugely influenced by the Welsh comes from given that outside of this forum my personal experience is that any influence the Welsh may have had is long forgotten/brushed under the carpet.

I'm also saying that I'm not sure why north Wales seems to have been 'appropriated' by Liverpool on the basis of geographical proximity and the fact that there are many people from Merseytside who live/retire/holiday there. My point about mid Wales holds good - shouldn't Birmingham be claiming the same of Ceredigion on the same basis.

I've asked for clarification as to why members from Liverpool feel this way because I really don't know. The north Walians that I know (and I speak for them not the whole of north Wales) don't see Liverpool as their de facto capital.

well coming from the wirral i cant speak for birmingham, but it looks to be at least 30 miles from the border, whereas Deeside Ice rink was 5 min up the road when i was growing up on the Wirral.

btw do the North Waleans you know have a specific football team they support?

I get the feeling you've made up your mind though and I'm flogging a dead horse

:nuts:

Manchester has always been the capital of Lancashire, whilst Liverpool has been the 'capital' of North wales, the Isle of Man and Ireland to boot.. to say nothing of being an outward looking metropolis of global significance in its time!

So what about Dublin and Belfast? Definately not the Isle of Man (are you for real!), and capital of North Wales! dont be silly! Maybe you could claim up to Rhyl and other run down beach resorts (along the coast line only) but away from the coast you are truely talking Welsh teritory, attached to no one. The Eistefford is nothing seing as there was no capital of Wales when Liverpool last held it. And to get back to the main point, the area you are covering is far too huge to be called liverpool bay area, which is basically the mersey estuary and about a 1 mile radius. Mosat north walians would see more kinship with Cardiff and Wrexham to be there defacto capitals and regional capitals then Liverpool. I think you have ideas of grandur to think that liverpool is capital of north Wales lol.

So what about Dublin and Belfast? Definately not the Isle of Man (are you for real!), and capital of North Wales! dont be silly! Maybe you could claim up to Rhyl and other run down beach resorts (along the coast line only) but away from the coast you are truely talking Welsh teritory, attached to no one. The Eistefford is nothing seing as there was no capital of Wales when Liverpool last held it. And to get back to the main point, the area you are covering is far too huge to be called liverpool bay area, which is basically the mersey estuary and about a 1 mile radius. Mosat north walians would see more kinship with Cardiff and Wrexham to be there defacto capitals and regional capitals then Liverpool. I think you have ideas of grandur to think that liverpool is capital of north Wales lol.

Well you can't deny that North Wales is as local to Liverpool as west lancashire, chester etc... If it wasn't there wouldn't be so many Welsh people in Liverpool to make Anne Robinson say what she said, there wouldn't be a North Wales edition of the Liverpool Daily Post (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/), Wrexham wouldn't be trying to electrify its rail link to bidston so to link in seamlessly with Liverpool's metro, like Chester has, and that welsh MP quoted above wouldn't have grown up on Merseyside would he? And just to finish off, a Plaid Cymru MP wanted to make Liverpool capital of the UK ;)

And just to finish off, a Plaid Cymru MP wanted to make Liverpool capital of the UK ;) I have been told that in the 1950's the headquarters of Plaid Cymru was located on Mount Pleasant in Liverpool. I can't vouch for the veracity of the information but perhaps others on the forum can.

Also, on a TV travel show about 5 years back I remember hearing that only two places in the world produced a Welsh language newspaper and neither was in Wales. One was in Chubut, Argentina and the other in Liverpool, England.

How about we get the discussion back on topic?

Some scenes of Yorkshire...

Pen-y-Ghent
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/a017081-Pen-y-Ghent-Yorkshire-1.jpg

Limestone features in the upper Dales
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/LimestoneFeatures.jpg

Ingleborough in the snow
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/Ingleboroughinwinter2.jpg

Robin Hood's Bay and Ravenscar
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/RHB2.jpg

Top shot of Pen-y-ghent, electric. :)

Top shot of Pen-y-ghent, electric. :)Thanks, di Livio. Not one of my own, of course - just trawled off the internet.

Nope - I'm saying I'm confused as to where this talk about Liverpool having been hugely influenced by the Welsh comes from given that outside of this forum my personal experience is that any influence the Welsh may have had is long forgotten/brushed under the carpet.

I'm also saying that I'm not sure why north Wales seems to have been 'appropriated' by Liverpool on the basis of geographical proximity and the fact that there are many people from Merseytside who live/retire/holiday there. My point about mid Wales holds good - shouldn't Birmingham be claiming the same of Ceredigion on the same basis.

I've asked for clarification as to why members from Liverpool feel this way because I really don't know. The north Walians that I know (and I speak for them not the whole of north Wales) don't see Liverpool as their de facto capital.

how you should see it, being from an outward looking, confident nation, is that of the influence of Wales on Liverpool.. a little bit of neo-imperialsim (which would actually be correct) rather than a seething and parochial disdane, based on some losely contrived notion of national purity?

So what about Dublin and Belfast? Definately not the Isle of Man (are you for real!), and capital of North Wales! dont be silly! Maybe you could claim up to Rhyl and other run down beach resorts (along the coast line only) but away from the coast you are truely talking Welsh teritory, attached to no one. The Eistefford is nothing seing as there was no capital of Wales when Liverpool last held it. And to get back to the main point, the area you are covering is far too huge to be called liverpool bay area, which is basically the mersey estuary and about a 1 mile radius. Mosat north walians would see more kinship with Cardiff and Wrexham to be there defacto capitals and regional capitals then Liverpool. I think you have ideas of grandur to think that liverpool is capital of north Wales lol.


or that cardiff is? Swansea is the rightful capital of All Walles!

anyway Liverpool has never been the capital of anywhere... it is an indication of links and influence, not some stupid designation!

Difficult one this. Every district within England has its own unique character.:) Lake district/ yorkshire areas for me though.

or that cardiff is? Swansea is the rightful capital of All Walles!

anyway Liverpool has never been the capital of anywhere... it is an indication of links and influence, not some stupid designation!
I agree with this.

I do think it's complete nonsense to claim (as some have on this forum) that Liverpool has lots in common with North Wales and very little in common with Lancashire - however promoting links with Lancashire and downplaying those with North Wales is also complete nonsense. Why should Cardiff claim more of an affinity towards Gogland? Just because it was made the capital of all of Wales in 1955? That's a contrived designation which Cardiff has benefitted massively from, not only saving Welsh customs (like Cymraeg) there from decline but also turning the city (as the capital) into the spiritual centre of all things Welsh. Liverpool of course has never had such cultural safeguarding, being left to natural forces.

or that cardiff is? Swansea is the rightful capital of All Walles!

anyway Liverpool has never been the capital of anywhere... it is an indication of links and influence, not some stupid designation!

What a load of rubbish - Swansea! You are really showing you have no clue what you are talking about!!!!!!!!!!!!! if any where is the spiritual capital of Wales then its Caernafon or towns in that area. Cardiff is the natural capital when chosen because most of the population lives around it, and its the biggest economic area in Wales with the best infrastructure and connections.

I agree with this.

....Why should Cardiff claim more of an affinity towards Gogland? Just because it was made the capital of all of Wales in 1955? That's a contrived designation which Cardiff has benefitted massively from, not only saving Welsh customs (like Cymraeg) there from decline but also turning the city (as the capital) into the spiritual centre of all things Welsh. Liverpool of course has never had such cultural safeguarding, being left to natural forces.

You also seem not to know what you are saying seeing as Cardiff is the only true bilingual city in the UK (ie Welsh and English). The historic local comunities spoke Welsh (something which Liverpool never had) and while there was no promotion of things welsh (not just in Cardiff but the whole of Wales!) before 1955, Welsh events like school eisteddfords and st davids day were still celebrated (something not done in Liverpool schools i bet!). Liverpool has no claims on anything Welsh, instead it should be cliaming its rich history of imigrants etc. Of course Cardiff is being turned into the spiritual center of Wales, as there hasnt been one before but this dosnt mean it represents all areas of Wales either.

^^ I thought Machynlleth(sp?) was the real capital of Wales.

What a load of rubbish - Swansea! You are really showing you have no clue what you are talking about!!!!!!!!!!!!! if any where is the spiritual capital of Wales then its Caernafon or towns in that area. Cardiff is the natural capital when chosen because most of the population lives around it, and its the biggest economic area in Wales with the best infrastructure and connections.



You also seem not to know what you are saying seeing as Cardiff is the only true bilingual city in the UK (ie Welsh and English). The historic local comunities spoke Welsh (something which Liverpool never had) and while there was no promotion of things welsh (not just in Cardiff but the whole of Wales!) before 1955, Welsh events like school eisteddfords and st davids day were still celebrated (something not done in Liverpool schools i bet!). Liverpool has no claims on anything Welsh, instead it should be cliaming its rich history of imigrants etc. Of course Cardiff is being turned into the spiritual center of Wales, as there hasnt been one before but this dosnt mean it represents all areas of Wales either.

Nah... SWANSEA, much better, more classy!!!
thought that would piss you off! :)

Now, you can play the tit game of dissing cities, but I wouldn't bother, cardiff is not really in any position to play that game... Cardiff, unlike Edinburgh or Belfast being a nonentity of a town, until GIVEN the designation of 'Capital' and having solely any cultural, commercial or administrative clout as an exclusive result of that designation!


Now.
What you can do is understand what I stated about the context of what Liverpool Bay Area is (i.e a wider area of affilitaion, not a land grab?) and get back to promoting Cardiff's many contemporary virtues, you are obviously lacking empathy of historical context.

Sadly, your stance and reaction shows you to be one of those inward looking 'protectors', rather than one who is confident in Welsh culture.. you must be, otherwise you wouldn't feel it under assault if North wales can 'share' some affiliation with something outside the sacred land! How would you react if I sang the praises of the Welsh border regions... inclusive of the English counties of Hereford and Wocestershire as it is?...eek!

oops!

You also seem not to know what you are saying seeing as Cardiff is the only true bilingual city in the UK (ie Welsh and English). The historic local comunities spoke Welsh (something which Liverpool never had) and while there was no promotion of things welsh (not just in Cardiff but the whole of Wales!) before 1955, Welsh events like school eisteddfords and st davids day were still celebrated (something not done in Liverpool schools i bet!). Liverpool has no claims on anything Welsh, instead it should be cliaming its rich history of imigrants etc. Of course Cardiff is being turned into the spiritual center of Wales, as there hasnt been one before but this dosnt mean it represents all areas of Wales either.
Yes, "historic" communties. About a hundred years ago, Liverpool had more Welsh-speakers than Cardiff. Many communities held church services, etc. in Welsh. You can argue all you like about how it's all irrelevant now it has declined (it hasn't disappeared completely), but I bet you wouldn't say the same thing if it happened in Cardiff (or anywhere in Wales for that matter).

I don't care about identities and the like (they're all a load of bollocks anyway), but you shouldn't turn your nose up at Liverpool's connections with Wales just because it's in England.

Doesn't it even have a welsh name? I think I've seen it on an Arriva trains map :dunno:

^^Yep, Lerpwyl, although quite a few cities in England have a Welsh counterpart to their English names. All of the surviving old pre-Saxon invasion Roman settlements, which, of course, were Welsh towns, in a fashion, themselves once, as well as some border places such as Liverpool.

Arguably Liverpool's English name comes from the Welsh name. Other theories exist, however.

looking back on it, none of the regions have the best natural beauty, they all have something hideously wrong with them that stops them from being-:yes:

Nah... SWANSEA, much better, more classy!!!
thought that would piss you off! :)

Now, you can play the tit game of dissing cities, but I wouldn't bother, cardiff is not really in any position to play that game... Cardiff, unlike Edinburgh or Belfast being a nonentity of a town, until GIVEN the designation of 'Capital' and having solely any cultural, commercial or administrative clout as an exclusive result of that designation!


Funny how you try to provoke me with statements of how Swansea is more classy than cardiff and then go into a barrage of how rubbish the city was before it was made capital / devolution. Funnily enough Cardiff is only 103 years old as a city and is a city because it was the largest coal exporting port in the UK and 3rd most important for a time after london and Liverpool so dont even go there. Like i said Wales didnt have a capital and when it came to choosing one, Cardiff was the obvious choice, so your point is null and void. Apart from a few developments in the city, most of its resurgence has nothing to do with devolution (the bay has nothing to do with it, the new shopping center has nothiong to do with it, new offices has nothing to do with it, new aprtments has nothing to do with it) its all related to the wider UK resugence and the local councils vision for the city (ie comparable to any European capital - which are generally the best cities of any country). Im not going to attack Liverpool as its a great city, but is also not perfect and i and you are aware of its shortfalls, like Cardiffs.

...... About a hundred years ago, Liverpool had more Welsh-speakers than Cardiff. Many communities held church services, etc. in Welsh. You can argue all you like about how it's all irrelevant now it has declined (it hasn't disappeared completely), but I bet you wouldn't say the same thing if it happened in Cardiff (or anywhere in Wales for that matter).

I don't care about identities and the like (they're all a load of bollocks anyway), but you shouldn't turn your nose up at Liverpool's connections with Wales just because it's in England.

About 100 years ago there probably were more speakers of Italian, Chinese etc. than Welsh in Cardiff, but not in the valleys and Cardiffs hinterland (my Grandparents spoke Welsh). Im not turning my nose up at Liverpools connections to Wales, but they are not as influential as some sem to be making out! Ask anyone from clowyn bay and im sure they dont hold any affinity to Liverpool! And back to the MAIN POINT OF THIS THREAD, to claim the whole of North Wales as part fo the Liverpool bay area is being quite stupid.

I would say the Northwest has the best natural beauty, followed by the South West.

The Lake District is stunning, and i love the Cornish coastline and it's little coves, and it has better weather.

Though voted Southwest to avoid bias, like Eurovision, can't vote for your own region.

Funny how you try to provoke me with statements of how Swansea is more classy than cardiff and then go into a barrage of how rubbish the city was before it was made capital / devolution. Funnily enough Cardiff is only 103 years old as a city and is a city because it was the largest coal exporting port in the UK and 3rd most important for a time after london and Liverpool so dont even go there. Like i said Wales didnt have a capital and when it came to choosing one, Cardiff was the obvious choice, so your point is null and void. Apart from a few developments in the city, most of its resurgence has nothing to do with devolution (the bay has nothing to do with it, the new shopping center has nothiong to do with it, new offices has nothing to do with it, new aprtments has nothing to do with it) its all related to the wider UK resugence and the local councils vision for the city (ie comparable to any European capital - which are generally the best cities of any country). Im not going to attack Liverpool as its a great city, but is also not perfect and i and you are aware of its shortfalls, like Cardiffs.



About 100 years ago there probably were more speakers of Italian, Chinese etc. than Welsh in Cardiff, but not in the valleys and Cardiffs hinterland (my Grandparents spoke Welsh). Im not turning my nose up at Liverpools connections to Wales, but they are not as influential as some sem to be making out! Ask anyone from clowyn bay and im sure they dont hold any affinity to Liverpool! And back to the MAIN POINT OF THIS THREAD, to claim the whole of North Wales as part fo the Liverpool bay area is being quite stupid.


if you stop taking exception to a thing which is not objectionable then I will stop making up porkies about Cardiff's lack of cudos? :)

I can't believe the usual Scouse suspects have got the North-West paranoia all over again.

Look at the map on the first page - those are the official government boundaries for the nine regions of England - Merseyside resides in the North-West region. End of.

Contrary to popular SSC Scouse belief, the fantasist 'Liverpool Bay Area' (and it's North Wales anschluss) is not comparable to the North East or the West Midlands.

Tony Sebo, Pobbie and all the others - you all live in the North-West, same as me!

Oh dear. Here are some more pictures of Yorkshire to calm you all down...

Thornwick Bay
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/Last_rays_Thornwick_Bay900.jpg

The Hole of Horcum
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/Horcum1.jpg

Whernside
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/whernside_5a.jpg

Hardraw Force - the highest unbroken overground waterfall in England
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/HardrawForceWensleydale.jpg

as a personal preference i think Yorkshire has a far better stretch coastline :yes: the NW's doesn't do much for me :dunno:

i agree actually. the coastal towns too, (robin hood's bay, staithes etc), are just gorgeous.

Like i said Wales didnt have a capital. Wasn't Welshpool/Powys once Owain Glyndwr's capital and if so, wouldn't that make it the capital of the Principality? I seem to remember being told the Prince Llewelyn, the last true Prince of Wales, also had his capital on the Isle of Anglesey.

i agree actually. the coastal towns too, (robin hood's bay, staithes etc), are just gorgeous.

we cant include towns and the like, as they're not natural :nono: :( :wink2: or at least this was the impression i was under, (if we can then its the SW for me again :shifty:)

we can however appreciate the settings these towns are in :yes:

I need to see facts to vote :D

I can't believe the usual Scouse suspects have got the North-West paranoia all over again.

Look at the map on the first page - those are the official government boundaries for the nine regions of England - Merseyside resides in the North-West region. End of.

Contrary to popular SSC Scouse belief, the fantasist 'Liverpool Bay Area' (and it's North Wales anschluss) is not comparable to the North East or the West Midlands.

Tony Sebo, Pobbie and all the others - you all live in the North-West, same as me!

Are you aware these regions meant nothing before 1994 and even then, Merseyside, which is itself a manufactured region, was regarded as a seperate region. Seperate until, that is, the Government controversially shoehorned it into "The North West" in 1998. It was originally seperate because of a reason.

Liverpool Bay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool_Bay), and the Liverpool Bay area (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool_Bay) (which are real whether you like it or not) predate these government manufactured regions by hundreds of years, and if they didn't exist they wouldn't occur so frequently in academic papers.

At creation there were 10 GORs but in 1998 Merseyside was merged with the rest of the North West to leave the pattern shown on the map. GORs are built up of complete counties/unitary authorities so although they are subject to change they always reflect administrative boundaries as at the end of the previous year. Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are not subdivided into GORs but are listed with them as regions in UK-wide statistical comparisons.

thats all very well but it still wouldnt be the prettiest region :tongue2: :wink2:

thats all very well but it still wouldnt be the prettiest region :tongue2: :wink2:

well i'd vote for Wales meself but it doesn't exist anymore apparently

well i'd vote for Wales meself but it doesn't exist anymore apparently

well yo'd be somewhat right ;) :shifty:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/3715512.stm

:tongue3:

we cant include towns and the like, as they're not natural :nono: :( :wink2: or at least this was the impression i was under, (if we can then its the SW for me again :shifty:)

we can however appreciate the settings these towns are in :yes:

Ah that's true.


Although, the natural beauty of places like the lakes, exmoor (national parks) does rely on the conservation of their villages. And IMO the lake district wouldn't be the same without it's lovely villages. :)

PICS!!!

Hawkshead:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/1/722432_f6cb76ec2a_o.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/14/15680870_41b08099fa_o.jpg

(that bookshop btw is so gorgeous, crammed to the ceiling stacked volumes, the sort of place with quiet nooks and corners you can get lost in)

Although thinking about it though, i think maybe i'm wrong. Ignore this.

Ah that's true.


Although, the natural beauty of places like the lakes, exmoor (national parks) does rely on the conservation of their villages. And IMO the lake district wouldn't be the same without it's lovely villages. :)



true without them our countryside would be more akin to...


the mid west ;) :shifty:

always wanted to visit the lakes, but well its not like they're close :shifty:

Malham Cove
http://kingmagic.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/malhamcovepaulheaton.jpg
http://www.malhamdale.com/images/malhamcoveviewpaulheaton.jpg
http://www.dkimages.com/discover/previews/769/906890.JPG

Aysgarth Falls
http://justyorkshire.com/img-lay/1-AysgarthFalls--May2005.jpg

View towards Leeds/Bradford from Almscliffe Crag
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/165/383991862_e0a4f911e7.jpg?v=1182004549

One of many rock formations at Brimham Rocks
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/170/484980828_ec64275512.jpg?v=0

Some of the Peak District

Chrome Hill
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2297/2133399661_0a2d468d8c.jpg?v=0
http://flickr.com/photos/sovietuk/2133399661/

Monsal
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1122/899254156_00001cc0e4.jpg?v=0
http://flickr.com/photos/lazlowoodbine/899254156/

Winnets Pass
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2221/2187208603_9be71e866b.jpg?v=0
http://flickr.com/photos/16397980@N04/2187208603/

Stanage Edge
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2394/2107728763_67c5863397.jpg?v=0
http://flickr.com/photos/peakrambler/2107728763/

Ladybower
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1106/989445781_35e0c6336c.jpg?v=0
http://www.flickr.com/photos/earthwatcher/989445781/


And one of Derwent Reservoir by me. :happy:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1064/560236294_7294f75089.jpg?v=0

Just to clarify: All the pictures in Leeds No.1's post were taken in Yorkshire.
The ones in Paulmat's post were of Derbyshire, which is in the East Midlands Region (although I believe the left-hand part of the Stanage Edge picture is in Yorkshire) and the Lake District.<edit

Yorkshire has territory in three different National Parks: Yorkshire Dales, North York Moors and Peak District.

Great pictures of Malham Cove and Aysgarth Falls, by the way No.1 - better than the ones I managed to turn up!

Both Hardraw Force (previous page) and Aysgarth Falls were used as locations in the film Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves.

I don't really like the Moors =/ I appareciate them, but I prefer the Dales. I tend to associate the Moors with travel sickness... probably explains it.

The Yorkshire Coast is nice though, as is all the countryside north of Leeds/Bradford.

Oh well, I hope these don't make you feel travel sick!

Some views from the North York Moors area...

Lake Gormire
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/LakeGormireNYM.jpg

From Sutton Bank over the Vale of Mowbray
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/FromSuttonBank.jpg

Newton Dale
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/NewtonDaleNYMR.jpg

Towards Sutton Bank and the White Horse
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/White-Horse-Yorkshire-Touri.jpg

Towards Bilsdale
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/Bilsdale.jpg

Im sorry but i cant accept Liverpool as the capital of north Wales (the differences are just too great IMO), i do accept that it has an influence on the north east coastal areas but only as a shopping / business area (nothing cultural - at least not anymore anyway). Despite my difference of oppinion to some lIverpool forumers i still dont think that area has the best natural beauty. My personal fave (although i havent seen all of England) is Salisbury plain. Im surprised no one has mentioned the Norfolk broads. Oh and i remember laughing when i first heard Wales had been left of the map! lol (most Welsh dont take things like that too seriously).

I can't believe the usual Scouse suspects have got the North-West paranoia all over again.

Look at the map on the first page - those are the official government boundaries for the nine regions of England - Merseyside resides in the North-West region. End of.

Contrary to popular SSC Scouse belief, the fantasist 'Liverpool Bay Area' (and it's North Wales anschluss) is not comparable to the North East or the West Midlands.

Tony Sebo, Pobbie and all the others - you all live in the North-West, same as me!


tell me what these regions are then? If they are so natural how come the geordies fucked the notion off?

The North West is an entirely false construct, lumping areas together under the primacy of Manchester, which is why you support the idea so much. They also splat right through other, older areas and create arbritary cut off points. For example, if the Peak District had been designated West or east Midlands would you then see that there is no link with Manchester, them still only being down t'road?

I can see the White Horse from my house on a clear day :) Although it just looks like a white splodge on the hillside from here...

Just to clarify: All the pictures in Leeds No.1's post were taken in Yorkshire.
The ones in Paulmat's post were of Derbyshire, which is in the East Midlands Region (although I believe the left-hand part of the Stanage Edge picture is in Yorkshire) and the Lake District.

None I posted were from the Lake District :dunno: But yeah, Stanage Edge is in South Yorkshire technically.

I'm surprised the East Midlands have gotten so few votes. Cause the Peak District around Derbyshire is really beautiful. Although I tend to think of it more as part of the north than the East Midlands.

Sorry, I thought Derwent Water was in the Lake District?

EDIT: Wait a minute though - did you mean one of the reservoirs in the Derwent Valley?

I think of really flat, boring landscape when I think of the East Midlands =/. I tend to associate the Peak District with the North Midlands/Yorkshire...

Sorry, I thought Derwent Water was in the Lake District?

EDIT: Wait a minute though - did you mean one of the reservoirs in the Derwent Valley?

Oh lol. Yeah i'm getting mixed up. Derwent Water is in the Lakes, Derwent Reservoir is in the Peaks. But yeah, that photo is the one in the peaks.

I think of really flat, boring landscape when I think of the East Midlands =/. I tend to associate the Peak District with the North Midlands/Yorkshire...

Yeah, That's my thoughts too, but technically I guess the Derbyshire part of the Peak District is in the East Midlands. :dunno:

tbh the area east of the M1 and Lincolnshire is the default area i picture when someone says the east midlands (dunno why Derbyshire is such a blank spot), its pleasant enough, but compared to elsewhere it is somewhat Vanilla :shifty: i guess its because the rather tame farming areas to the east are so much bigger in area than the the more rugged 'scapes.

And back to the MAIN POINT OF THIS THREAD, to claim the whole of North Wales as part fo the Liverpool bay area is being quite stupid.
Claiming the whole of North Wales as part of Liverpool Bay? Of course that's ridiculous - but whoever said such a thing? liverpolitan maybe?

And Mancunian Monkey, this has nothing to do with political regionalism. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder yourself about anyone daring to question the construct. The point is, I live as close to North Wales as I do to Manchester. You can't just downplay links with North Wales whilst promoting those with Manchester (or vice-versa).

Oh lol. Yeah i'm getting mixed up. Derwent Water is in the Lakes, Derwent Reservoir is in the Peaks. But yeah, that photo is the one in the peaks.Sorry for the confusion then. No matter - it's a fantastic photo Paulmat. Well done.

PS. To add to the confusion, apparently there's another Derwent Reservoir in Durham! It would seem that 'Derwent' is a popular river name in Britain.

There's a sizeable River Derwent in North Yorkshire too.

Tony Sebo, Pobbie and all the others - you all live in the North-West, same as me!

At least until some other pen pusher is employed to redraw the lines. Who knows where they'll put us next, Gibraltar?

Some of you Liverpudlians have a serious complex. :ohno:

Sheffield 'city region' is split over 3 different counties. Do we give a shit? No. Now just get over feeling hard done by, no-one cares.

At least until some other pen pusher is employed to redraw the lines. Who knows where they'll put us next, Gibraltar?

Nah, Gibraltar is gonna become part of the West Midlands. :yes:

Gibraltar's actually apart of the south west england EU Parliment constituency.

i found that from reading my local newspaper :happy:

figures they would, the SW is Englands left overs n scraps region

It's actually part of the South West for EU purposes, despite not actually being a part of the UK. I never even knew it was part of the EU until recently.

EDIT: Helium got in there first. n__n

It's actually part of the South West for EU purposes, despite not actually being a part of the UK. I never even new it was part of the EU until recently. Yet on a recent visit to 'The Rock' I was required to show my passport, and have it stamped, when entering Spain at la Linea and again when returning to Gibraltar. I understand that Gibraltar's status is that of an Overseas Territory of the United Kingdom. A status shared by places like the Falkland Islands, Tristan da Cunha, Pitcairn Island, Diego Garcia and Turks & Caicos Islands. Citizens of Gibraltar, and those islands mentioned, do not enjoy the right of residency in the United Kingdom.

Gibraltar's actually apart of the south west england EU Parliment constituency.

i found that from reading my local newspaper :happy:

figures they would, the SW is Englands left overs n scraps region

I wondered where they put Gibraltar, there was rumours that for EU purposes it was going to be put as part of West Midlands, being part of the South West seems a bit more related. :)

it'd would have been nice if it was in the West midlands, you could have had a coastline :happy: :yes:

Yet on a recent visit to 'The Rock' I was required to show my passport, and have it stamped, when entering Spain at la Linea and again when returning to Gibraltar. I understand that Gibraltar's status is that of an Overseas Territory of the United Kingdom. A status shared by places like the Falkland Islands, Tristan da Cunha, Pitcairn Island, Diego Garcia and Turks & Caicos Islands. Citizens of Gibraltar, and those islands mentioned, do not enjoy the right of residency in the United Kingdom.

Well, both the UK and Gibraltar are not part of the Schengen Agreement, despite being in the EU, so border checks remain. Theoretically, Gibraltar could join without the UK, however, I believe Spain has the power to veto the move and probably would.

Well, both the UK and Gibraltar are not part of the Schengen Agreement, despite being in the EU, so border checks remain. But not, apparently, when travelling from the UK proper to a member country of the Schengen group. In September last year I travelled between LPL and BCN and didn't show my passport. I am however, on every occasion, required to produce a passport when arriving in the UK no matter where I'm coming from.

how you should see it, being from an outward looking, confident nation, is that of the influence of Wales on Liverpool.. a little bit of neo-imperialsim (which would actually be correct) rather than a seething and parochial disdane, based on some losely contrived notion of national purity?


Tony

How have you come to that conclusion? Have any of my posts suggested that i'm anti-English or that I believe in racial purity?

The point I was making - based on my own experience - is that outside of this forum I have never heard anyone make reference to Welsh influence in Liverpool. I would have liked it if they had but it hasn't happened to my knowledge. Most Liverpudlians I have met - actually all that I have met - have been as indifferent as anyoone from anywhjere else. The question I posed is how is this Welsh influence manifested hence my opening line of 'I don't get this Liverpool embracing north Wales mullarkey.' I'm more than willing to be proven wrong and for it to be categorically confirmed that the Welsh were the driving force behind one of Britain's greatest cities.

The second point was the issue of Liverpool's influence over north Wales. It's almost a cliche to say Liverpool is the capital of north Wales but I'm not sure that bears scrutiny for reasons explained in previous posts. I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise but no-one seems to be able to give me any evidence except call me parochial and inward looking for daring to suggest otherwise. I suppose the lack of any decent sized city in north Wales would mean that any centre for entertainment/shopping/commerce is likely to be the nearest over the border which is Chester/Liverpool/Manchester but beyond that and the fact that many people from Liverpool have made north Wales their home I'm really struggling to understand this special connection.

That doesn't make me a nationalist with either a small or a capital N, it doesn't make me 'seething' or some sort of Welsh nazi. Coming to that conclusion from what I have posted gives more insight into your views than mine.

Three points:

1) Liverpool sits on the western edge of England . It sits in the north of England. I don't understand how it is such an affront to the city to suggest it sits in the north-west of England.

2) If you are so opposed to political regionalisation that you aren't prepared to use those regional names - even those that offer a simple geographical description - then I think it is more than a little disingenuous to believe that it's the "Liverpool Bay" area has the best natural beauty. If we are using long-held culturally-rooted descriptiions, then the area we are talking about is more-accurately known as "Snowdonia" (I don't think the delights of Southport or Rhyl really cut it...)

3) The thread title referred to England. You can argue that the North west or West midlands are artifically imposed regional identites. i don't think you can argue that wales and England are artifically imposed identities.

Three points:

1) Liverpool sits on the western edge of England . It sits in the north of England. I don't understand how it is such an affront to the city to suggest it sits in the north-west of England.

2) If you are so opposed to political regionalisation that you aren't prepared to use those regional names - even those that offer a simple geographical description - then I think it is more than a little disingenuous to believe that the Liverpool Bay area has the best natural beauty. If we are using long-held culturally-rooted descriptiions, then the area we are talking about is more-accurately known as Snowdonia (I don't think the delights of Southport or Rhyl really cut it...)

3) The thread title referred to England. You can argue that the North west or West midlands are artifically imposed regional identites. i don't think you can argue that wales and England are artifically imposed identities.

Because Liverpool is that culturally different. Enough to be independent some suggest.

One day, they'll make compasses with N,E,S,W and L (for Liverpool obviously!)

Maybe a Liverpool Pole?

;)

One day, they'll make compasses with N,E,S,W and L (for Liverpool obviously!)

Maybe a Liverpool Pole?

;)

we used to have one of them:-

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/13/15774012_e1021720dc.jpg?v=0

jerzey dudek ;)

^^:lol:

Three points:

1) Liverpool sits on the western edge of England . It sits in the north of England. I don't understand how it is such an affront to the city to suggest it sits in the north-west of England.

It depends whether you're announcing that as simple geographical fact, or whether you're playing geopolitics with it. The UK is a part of Europe. But is it culturally and geographically a part of Europe in a way that makes it naturally similar to Portugal or Croatia more so than with either Canada or Australia? The first part about the UK being in Europe is fact, the second part is debatable to say the least. It's the same with this North West thing. Liverpool is geographically in the north western part of England. Does that mean that it's culturally or politically closer to Carlisle than it is to Wrexham? Does it mean we need local government arrangments based on compass points? In fact, could it even be argued, at a stretch, that Liverpool is the far north frontier of the West Midlands, meaning that sharing an assembly with Warwickshire makes more sense than with either Lancashire or Flintshire?

Because Liverpool is that culturally different. Enough to be independent some suggest.

Correct.

But not, apparently, when travelling from the UK proper to a member country of the Schengen group. In September last year I travelled between LPL and BCN and didn't show my passport. I am however, on every occasion, required to produce a passport when arriving in the UK no matter where I'm coming from.

Well, Schengen countries are entitled to make people coming from the UK to show their passports. I know a lot of the time they don't bother. A frontier I've done several times is the Channel crossing. The few times I've done it, the French have never cared to check, whereas the British have done everytime. The French are entitled to check if they want though, in a way they are not entitled to do with another Schengen country. It's just on these occassions, they didn't care. It's the same with Spain. They just insist on being a pain about Gibraltar for political reasons. It's well known that Gibraltar have wanted to join Schengen for years, but they don't have the same negotiating rights as full member states of the EU.

It depends whether you're announcing that as simple geographical fact, or whether you're playing geopolitics with it. The UK is a part of Europe. But is it culturally and geographically a part of Europe in a way that makes it naturally similar to Portugal or Croatia more so than with either Canada or Australia?

Well, put it this way. If you were asking, which European region has the best natural beauty, I'd be surprised if the answer was Queensland...

It seems to me that "natural beauty", by definition, has nothing to do with lines on maps. We are not talking about government or cultural affinity. We are simply asking where, geographically, are the most beautiful parts of England. The concensus on this thread is that probably the Lake District, then the Cornish/Devon coast, are the most beautiful areas of the country. I don't think you have to be some local government spin doctor to believe those areas to be, respectively, in the north west or south west of England.

If the weather man says there is a belt of heavy rain sweeping over North wales into north west England and south west Scotland I bet you Liverpool lot organise barbeques in defiance.

:shifty:








always thought Somerset was rather underrated, 'sat pesky Devon next door's what it is :sly:

Well, put it this way. If you were asking, which European region has the best natural beauty, I'd be surprised if the answer was Queensland...

It seems to me that "natural beauty", by definition, has nothing to do with lines on maps. We are not talking about government or cultural affinity. We are simply asking where, geographically, are the most beautiful parts of England. The concensus on this thread is that probably the Lake District, then the Cornish/Devon coast, are the most beautiful areas of the country. I don't think you have to be some local government spin doctor to believe those areas to be, respectively, in the north west or south west of England.

If the weather man says there is a belt of heavy rain sweeping over North wales into north west England and south west Scotland I bet you Liverpool lot organise barbeques in defiance.


but you've got the point precisely the wrong way round! The Liverpool Bay Area was mentioned, which unleashed all sorts of dismisals becuase it is not a 'formal' administrative region of Ingerlund! As you say, natural beauty and geographical proximity are not defined by arbritary lines on a map.... so the Liverpool Bay Area is beautiful as well as thriving!

Cannock Chase in West Mids :)

It's smalled AONB in mainland Britain but with one of largest Country Parks in UK in it. 50 years old this year (the AONB not the chase obviously ;) )
Worth a visit if your passing M6 as its home to a Commonwealth War and German War Cemetary, Katyn Massacre memorial, Iron Age Hill fort, plus 800 or so fallow deer and migrant Nightjars.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1119/1142210408_d4039cd454.jpg
(http://flickr.com/photos/jennie_anderson/)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1027/1248389140_e2a610cea4.jpg
(http://flickr.com/photos/jennie_anderson/)

German War Cemetery
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/103/284055931_20680ed414.jpg
(http://flickr.com/photos/leftlung/)

Commonwealth Cemetery
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2075/1671423559_d3d1217079.jpg
(http://flickr.com/photos/15645629@N08/)

I LOVE Cannock Chase! :happy: (As does Stan Collymore :|) Used to go there and Milford Common with my cousins as kids when we visited them in Walsallshire - happy times. :) The German War Cemetary is the most peacful place in the world, I think it was summer 2006 when I last went. :yes:

but you've got the point precisely the wrong way round! The Liverpool Bay Area was mentioned, which unleashed all sorts of dismisals becuase it is not a 'formal' administrative region of Ingerlund!

I thought it was being dismissed because the obvious beautiful bits of it are not in Ingerland at all!!

Okay, point made. You can fuck off now.

Fuck off yourself you charmless Scouse cunt.

Remove the scouse part and it's pot calling the kettle black. Seriously, go away now, or get back on topic.

Remove the scouse part and it's pot calling the kettle black. Seriously, go away now, or get back on topic.

Are you the chief milk monitor round here or something? How on topic is "Point made. You can fuck off now"?

How on topic have been all your posts before that? You just seem to have come on here to act all condecending to scouse people. Anyway, what the hell does it matter to you if many of us feel closer to North Wales than Cumbria? Is it really that important?

Mmmm whacha say,
Mmmm that you only meant well?
well of course you did
Mmmm whacha say,
Mmmm that its all for the best?
Because it is
Mmmm whacha say?
Mmmm that it's just what we need
you decided this
whacha say?
Mmmm what did she say?


i wonder if anyone'll get that?

How on topic have been all your posts before that? You just seem to have come on here to act all condecending to scouse people. Anyway, what the hell does it matter to you if many of us feel closer to North Wales than Cumbria? Is it really that important?

The first 37 posts are all about "Which English region has the best natural beauty?" wiv pretty pictures and everything. Posts 38 and 39 then start on about the geopolitical exactitude of English regional government classifications. Which, you're right, really isn't that important, but does seem to get levered into every thread they can.

Anyway, the answer to the poll is "North West", specifically the Lake District. But Cornwall's nice.

Imogen Heap, Hide and Seek :)

I thought it was being dismissed because the obvious beautiful bits of it are not in Ingerland at all!!

maybe, most of Cheshire is pretty shite!

Some of you Liverpudlians have a serious complex. :ohno:

Sheffield 'city region' is split over 3 different counties. Do we give a shit? No. Now just get over feeling hard done by, no-one cares.
I'm not "feeling hard done by", I'm just trying to provide balance to some of the assertions that Liverpool has nothing to do with North Wales.

Do you think Chesterfield has nothing to do with Sheffield because it lies in a different designated region (East Midlands - for my money the weirdest English region of the lot :happy: )? Anyway, judging by responses to the new thread about regions started in this section, it's not just Liverpudlians who have reservations about the whole concept.

maybe, most of Cheshire is pretty shite!
Cheshire's great for a nice, relaxing canal cruise on a barge. 20-odd miles of the River Weaver also belong to the British Waterways network. :banana:

Gah.

I feel partially responsible for this debacle.

Those regions above are gash though.

Anyway, judging by responses to the new thread about regions started in this section, it's not just Liverpudlians who have reservations about the whole concept.That's right. So if people want to argue about regions, they can go here...
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=587289

Meanwhile...
Some more pictures of Yorkshire:

A Settle panorama
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/settle-panorama-01a.jpg

Runswick Bay
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/RunswickBay.jpg

Bridestones on Nab Ridge
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/BridestonesNabRidge.jpg

Roseberry Topping, on the border between North Yorkshire and Redcar and Cleveland
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/roseberry3.jpg

More coastal shots
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/thornwick_bay_470x352.jpg
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/ThornwickBay50pc.jpg

Cheshire's great for a nice, relaxing canal cruise on a barge. 20-odd miles of the River Weaver also belong to the British Waterways network. :banana:


yes, I was just twisting the original point about the English part of the Liverpool Bay Area being crap (he oviously meant this to be Liverpool!)
:cheers:

Roseberry Topping, on the border between North Yorkshire and Redcar and Cleveland
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/roseberry3.jpg


Sorry to pick you up on this, but there really is no such thing as Redcar and Cleveland. They are administrative areas of local government introduced in the early 1970s by central government, just like West Yorkshire and South Yorkshire. They are not historical geographical entities like the three Ridings of Yorkshire. Thanks to the post office and other national institutions, we have a whole generation that believe they live in places like Teeside, not the West and North Ridings of Yorkshire whidch have hundreds of years of history.

Sorry to pick you up on this, but there really is no such thing as Redcar and Cleveland. They are administrative areas of local government introduced in the early 1970s by central government, just like West Yorkshire and South Yorkshire. They are not historical geographical entities like the three Ridings of Yorkshire. Thanks to the post office and other national institutions, we have a whole generation that believe they live in places like Teeside, not the West and North Ridings of Yorkshire whidch have hundreds of years of history.Ah, not quite, but I think I know what you're getting at. 'Redcar and Cleveland' is a modern borough council area and doesn't really mean 'Cleveland', which is the previous name for Teesside.

The only reason I mentioned it is because the border between that and North Yorkshire actually goes over the top of Roseberry Topping and therefore marks the boundary between the 'Yorkshire and Humber' region and the 'North East' region, as quoted in the first post on this thread.

Of course, as you intimate, the whole of Redcar and Cleveland, Middlesbrough and indeed Roseberry Topping itself are inside the North Riding of the historic county of Yorkshire. See the 'Regions: Good, Bad or Ugly' thread for details.

It doesn't really matter when they were created, the history of a place continues whatever its name is. Is it really that important that Halesowen in the Black Country was once a part of Shropshire? That Birmingham was in three different counties? No, places change, names change. Clinging to the past in that way is rather pointless imo.

Looking at the picture of Malham Cove the other day reminded me that Yorkshire has an awful lot of waterfalls. Malham Cove itself is what remains of a giant prehistoric waterfall, bigger than Niagara Falls.

Here are a few of those that still have water:

Water Ark Falls, North York Moors
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/WaterArkFallsNYM.jpg

Mallyan Spout, North York Moors
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/MallyanSpout.jpg

These are from the Yorkshire Dales...

Near Malham
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/malham14big.jpg

Kisdon Force
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/KisdonForceSwaledale.jpg

Gordale Scar
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/gordale_scar_large.jpg

Goit Stock
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/GoitStockWaterfallNrHarden.jpg

Carrack Force
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/CarrackForce.jpg

Cote Gill
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/CoteGillWaterfall.jpg

East Grain Beck
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/EastGrainBeck.jpg

Nice, thanks for those. I'm a sucker for a waterfall.

yes, I was just twisting the original point about the English part of the Liverpool Bay Area being crap (he oviously meant this to be Liverpool!)
:cheers:

Obviously I didn't mean it to be Liverpool, as Liverpool is a big, noisy "proper" city. So however grand / handsome, even beautiful it is, it's clearly not a place of natural beauty.

That's one reason I found your claim that the Liverpool Bay Area was the English region with the best natural beauty risible. The most naturally beautiful parts of the Liverpool Bay Area aren't in England, and those parts of it that are in England aren't that special.

So, educate us, which are the parts of the Liverpool Bay Area, within England, that are as spectacular, beautiful or special as the Lakes, the Peaks, the North Yorks Moors or the coasts of Devon and Cornwall? Southport beach?

So, educate us, which are the parts of the Liverpool Bay Area, within England, that are as spectacular, beautiful or special as the Lakes, the Peaks, the North Yorks Moors or the coasts of Devon and Cornwall? Southport beach? Again, depending on ones personal opinion, and always remembering that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, the coast line to Southport in the north and south to West Kirby have natural beauty every bit as good, and to my mind, superior to that of the Cape Cod area of Massachusetts in the USA. The Cape Cod area of New England is promoted, not just for it's "beauty" but for it's sand dunes and "broad beaches with a gently sloping seabed that give bathers safe access to the ocean". The coastline of Metropolitan Liverpool offers all that Cape Cod offers with better access for the general public.

Better access to the balmy bathing waters of the Irish Sea... Brrrr!:)!

That's all very well, but does that really make it the best example of "natural beauty" in the whole of England??

I mean, living in Nottingham, I am close to some beautiful rolling English countryside in the Vale of Belvoir, but it's not as glorious as the Peak District, which in turn is like a less-good Lake District.

ALGARVE

We have some dunes in Yorkshire too, although probably not as pretty as Cape Cod's.

Spurn Head has been owned since 1960 by the Yorkshire Wildlife Trust and is a designated National Nature Reserve, Heritage Coast and is part of the Humber Flats, Marshes and Coast Special Protection Area...

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/spurnpoint1a.jpg

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/SpurnHeadWithLighthouse3.jpg

At high tide...
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/SpurnPoint_HighTide2.jpg

Better access to the balmy bathing waters of the Irish Sea... Brrrr!:)! Cape Cod is on the Atlantic Ocean proper. Brrrrrr!

That's all very well, but does that really make it the best example of "natural beauty" in the whole of England?? I never said it did.

I mean, living in Nottingham, I am close to some beautiful rolling English countryside in the Vale of Belvoir, but it's not as glorious as the Peak District, which in turn is like a less-good Lake District. And again, I don't disagree with you, but many would. Like I said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I love the sea, coasts and cities and couldn't give a toss for mountains, prairies, desert's, canyon's, valley's or dell's unless you can see them from the sea, but hey, that's my preference.

Obviously I didn't mean it to be Liverpool, as Liverpool is a big, noisy "proper" city. So however grand / handsome, even beautiful it is, it's clearly not a place of natural beauty.

That's one reason I found your claim that the Liverpool Bay Area was the English region with the best natural beauty risible. The most naturally beautiful parts of the Liverpool Bay Area aren't in England, and those parts of it that are in England aren't that special.

So, educate us, which are the parts of the Liverpool Bay Area, within England, that are as spectacular, beautiful or special as the Lakes, the Peaks, the North Yorks Moors or the coasts of Devon and Cornwall? Southport beach?

wtf - this is the original post that started a discussion about the regions:-

I was going to vote for the Liverpool Bay Area, just to be partizan, like, but I can't find it. I imagine that someone has made the mistake of putting the fictitious 'North West' up instead, having been conned into believing that it really is a homogenous Ingerlush region that includes Liverpool?

:nuts:

now there is another thread about it. Nobody said they would vote for the liverpool bay area, but that it was more of a real region than "north west", which is a direction. The point he was making was about the fictitious regions, and has been made, and now there is another thread about it.

But if you want to continue acting like some thick dog chasing its own tail, then do so.

Nobody said they would vote for the liverpool bay area,

I was going to vote for the Liverpool Bay Area

but that it was more of a real region than "north west", which is a direction. The point he was making was about the fictitious regions, and has been made

Yeah, exactly - has been made about a billion times before in all sorts of threads where it has absolutely no relevance, like in this one, where we are asked which part of England has the best natural beauty.

But if you want to continue acting like some thick dog chasing its own tail, then do so

Pot, kettle, etc.

By the way, a lot of "Yorkshire" countryside isn't in Yorkshire at all. A lot of the "Yorkshire" Dales are in the North West (Cumbria).

Likewise Saddleworth, Ribble Valley, Trough of Bowland.

Still, as part of the 1974 swap, Yorkshire got Todmorden. Arf arf.

By the way, a lot of "Yorkshire" countryside isn't in Yorkshire at all. A lot of the "Yorkshire" Dales are in the North West (Cumbria).

Likewise Saddleworth, Ribble Valley, Trough of Bowland.

Still, as part of the 1974 swap, Yorkshire got Todmorden. Arf arf.All the photos that I've posted (and the ones posted by Leeds No.1) are inside the Yorkshire and Humber region unless otherwise indicated.

Even without all the bits that have been hacked off, Yorkshire's diverse natural beauty can still compete with the other regions of England quite easily.

Nice, thanks for those. I'm a sucker for a waterfall.You might like this then...

Another view of Cote Gill, this time frozen over!
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/CoteGillFrozen.jpg

wtf - this is the original post that started a discussion about the regions:-



now there is another thread about it. Nobody said they would vote for the liverpool bay area, but that it was more of a real region than "north west", which is a direction. The point he was making was about the fictitious regions, and has been made, and now there is another thread about it.

But if you want to continue acting like some thick dog chasing its own tail, then do so.


All excellent points Yoshef.

Nice pics Electric City. :)

This is a photo I took last year of one of my favourite waterfalls - Skelwith Force near Ambleside in my favourite area of England - the Lake District. It's not the highest of waterfalls by any means but it has a very high (and noisy :happy:) volume of water tumbling over it. :drool:

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/1041/1030715eh1.jpg

[QUOTE=Bingethink;18677123]Obviously I didn't mean it to be Liverpool, as Liverpool is a big, noisy "proper" city. So however grand / handsome, even beautiful it is, it's clearly not a place of natural beauty. QUOTE]

OK, fair enough, apologies for the misunderstanding on this point!

..

Why does the mention of the word "region" always result in the same pretentious and irrelevant scouse angst every time. There's a time and a place guys.

Why does the mention of the word "region" always result in the same pretentious and irrelevant scouse angst every time. There's a time and a place guys.

:| Maybe its because we don't want to share a region with a person who joins in a discussion a day late to have a pop at a stereotype? By the way, if you're actually interested in contributing rather than wielding your excrement covered spoon, the place is now here (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=587289).

You might like this then...

Another view of Cote Gill, this time frozen over!
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/Electric_City_photos/CoteGillFrozen.jpg

Thats quite lovely :)

Why does the mention of the word "region" always result in the same pretentious and irrelevant scouse angst every time. There's a time and a place guys.

you may think it irrelevant, but how on earth could you say pretentous?

Pretentious because of the determination of some parties to conflate civic identity, ethnicity, race and racism which considering Liverpool is one of the least ethnically diverse of all large English cities takes some gall. Yes I understand the influence of the Celtic connection but you do not see the Welsh nor the Scots playing the racism card nearly so frequently nor so frivilantly. Its all in pretty poor taste actually.

The other strand to this is that for the vast majority of people, regions constitue a mere geographical description. This almost goes without saying! The only English regions that have attached to them any strength of individual and cultural identity are perhaps Yorkshire, the North East and South West. Why scoucers feel the need to so fervently assert their seperateness from something that to everyone else is so obviously a non cultural entity is beyond me.

Why scoucers feel the need to so fervently assert their seperateness from something that to everyone else is so obviously a non cultural entity is beyond me.
Victim status :yes:

Pretentious because of the determination of some parties to conflate civic identity, ethnicity, race and racism which considering Liverpool is one of the least ethnically diverse of all large English cities takes some gall. Yes I understand the influence of the Celtic connection but you do not see the Welsh nor the Scots playing the racism card nearly so frequently nor so frivilantly. Its all in pretty poor taste actually.

The other strand to this is that for the vast majority of people, regions constitue a mere geographical description. This almost goes without saying! The only English regions that have attached to them any strength of individual and cultural identity are perhaps Yorkshire, the North East and South West. Why scoucers feel the need to so fervently assert their seperateness from something that to everyone else is so obviously a non cultural entity is beyond me.

Well fucking ignore it and move on you, and stop acting like a moron. Like we're supposed to ignore quasi-racist jokes and discrimination everyday. If we complain, we're victims, if we don't we're criminals. And you wonder why the fuck some people here don't want to know about regions.

Lone survivor pulled form Liverpool earthquake disaster zone.

http://www1.iwvisp.com/hubcaps2/momhubcapgarden.JPG


Victim status :yes:

Pretentious because of the determination of some parties to conflate civic identity, ethnicity, race and racism which considering Liverpool is one of the least ethnically diverse of all large English cities takes some gall. Yes I understand the influence of the Celtic connection but you do not see the Welsh nor the Scots playing the racism card nearly so frequently nor so frivilantly. Its all in pretty poor taste actually.

The other strand to this is that for the vast majority of people, regions constitue a mere geographical description. This almost goes without saying! The only English regions that have attached to them any strength of individual and cultural identity are perhaps Yorkshire, the North East and South West. Why scoucers feel the need to so fervently assert their seperateness from something that to everyone else is so obviously a non cultural entity is beyond me.


Clueless.

For me to get on to topic....I like rugged nature so the Lakes, Yorkshire Dales, South West Coast all do it for me. If I had to choose I'd go South West mainly because of the coastline but also with Dartmoor and Bodmin you get stunnin changes in scenery, weather and geography within minutes.

Victim status :yes:


Yes accy.. moron!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2008/02/19/jonathan-margolis-liverpool-i-love-you-89520-20324085/

As for sleepyone, you cannot get round your hatred enough to ever read any of the posts about t'noowerthwest' to understand what the complaints are. Try Transpenninia, with Leeds as the designated or 'defacto' capital of the construct and see if your Manc objectivity stays the course?

Yes accy.. moron!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2008/02/19/jonathan-margolis-liverpool-i-love-you-89520-20324085/

As for sleepyone, you cannot get round your hatred enough to ever read any of the posts about t'noowerthwest' to understand what the complaints are. Try Transpenninia, with Leeds as the designated or 'defacto' capital of the construct and see if your Manc objectivity stays the course?

I wouldn't mind a region consisting of Greater Manchester, West Yorkshire, South Yorkshire, Warrington and St Helens. I think this would be more natural than 't noowerthwest (where do they talk like this???)

Why scoucers feel the need to so fervently assert their seperateness from something that to everyone else is so obviously a non cultural entity is beyond me.Then why do almost every travel writer and TV travelogue call Liverpool "England's least English city", "England's Celtic capital", "England's second city of culture", and on St. George's Hall, " the finest public building constructed in Europe in the last 200 years",[/I] and as for the Scouse accent, "the most unique accent in all of English". All the above quotes (not verbatim) are from publications in my possession and this is just pulled from memory but I'm sure I could find even more if I were to reread the stuff I have in my collection. I think the foregoing would make Liverpool and Scouser's just a little unique, don't you?

I'd agree with Sloyne there, Liverpool and Newcastle-upon-Tyne to a certain extent are unique and have their own character.

I wouldn't mind a region consisting of Greater Manchester, West Yorkshire, South Yorkshire, Warrington and St Helens. I think this would be more natural than 't noowerthwest (where do they talk like this???) :lol:


There is no reason for the regions to have to fit a certain standard, so why can't some be huge, like the one you describe, whilst others are quite small. Why can't we have a mix of real regions, where the people in those proposed regions see a logic and want to proceed, and city-regions where these are mosre appropriate. Wwe could also have some rural councils that would be focused on the needs of their community rather than spending half their time talking about cities and issues they have no connection too?

Then why do almost every travel writer and TV travelogue call Liverpool "England's least English city", "England's Celtic capital", "England's second city of culture", and on St. George's Hall, " the finest public building constructed in Europe in the last 200 years",[/I] and as for the Scouse accent, "the most unique accent in all of English". All the above quotes (not verbatim) are from publications in my possession and this is just pulled from memory but I'm sure I could find even more if I were to reread the stuff I have in my collection. I think the foregoing would make Liverpool and Scouser's just a little unique, don't you?

Isnt that just lazy journalism? St Georges Hall is a wonderful building but is it so much nicer than (dare I say it?) Leeds Town Hall? And how can the scouse accent be more unique than, say, the Geordie accent? Aren't all accents unique by definition? Once you start thinking about thse empty assertions they don't actually stand up.

St Georges Hall is a wonderful building. But non of the quotes I posted came from journalists. In fact the one you have taken particular umbrage to appeared in the magazine of the American Institute of Architects and the quote was attributed to your future King and concurred with by the architect Daniel Liberskind. Perhaps neither person has visited Leeds.:ohno:
And how can the scouse accent be more unique than, say, the Geordie accent? Once again, the "Scouse accent is the most unique accent in ALL of English, being confined, as it is, to Liverpool and the towns that face it across the Mersey" (Robert McNeil in the 'Story of English'). The Geordie accent is regional and stretches, with slight variations, from North Yorkshire almost to the Scottish border, just like every other accent in English. Although there are local idiosyncrasies in all regional accents, for example the English West Indian accent is spoken from Bermuda in the North Atlantic to Guyana in South America but one can identify a particular islands within this accent.

But non of the quotes I posted came from journalists. In fact the one you have taken particular umbrage to appeared in the magazine of the American Institute of Architects and the quote was attributed to your future King and concurred with by the architect Daniel Liberskind. Perhaps neither person has visited Leeds.:ohno:

Sorry, I thought you were attributing these quotes to travel writers. Ok, isn't it lazy writing? I'm not that bothered about this, there's no umbrage taken here!

All i was trying to get across to you is that if you want to convince people, or even educate them, that being of English Scouse stock is so much different to anywhere else then you'll need stronger arguments than that.

And Daniel Liberskind probably hasn't been to Leeds, not many people have!

Once again, the "Scouse accent is the most unique accent in ALL of English, being confined, as it is, to Liverpool and the towns that face it across the Mersey" (Robert McNeil in the 'Story of English'). The Geordie accent is regional and stretches, with slight variations, from North Yorkshire almost to the Scottish border, just like every other accent in English. Although there are local idiosyncrasies in all regional accents, for example the English West Indian accent is spoken from Bermuda in the North Atlantic to Guyana in South America but one can identify a particular islands within this accent.

You've edited! :)

Got to disagree with this one as well. Maybe 30, 40, 50 years ago but not now. There's Scouse influence in peoples accents all over the North West and North Wales these days. And there's no Geordie accents in North Yorkshire, Teeside accents maybe.

And Daniel Liberskind probably hasn't been to Leeds, not many people have! Oh oh! now you've done it. Wiggely will surely be on your case now, seeing as he thinks everyone who is anyone has been to Leeds.:wink2:

And there's no Geordie accents in North Yorkshire, Teeside accents maybe. I've not lived in the UK for more than 40 years but, when I did live there Middlesbrough was in Yorkshire and they, the Teesiders (Borough residents,) still speak with a variation of the Newcastle accent. The "uniqueness" of Scouse is not my claim but of published linguists and academics.

newcastle and middlesbrough accents are about as different as liverpool and manchester accents. (probably slightly more similar as there are far fewer people in the north-east compared to north-west)

the scouse accent is part of the north-west english accent, if there is one. scouse extends into north wales does it not? and i thought "liverpool bay" was it's own region? personally i find it difficult to differentiate between your nasally manc accent (terry christian, gallachers) and the scouse accent. very similar. though to people from round there they must seem complete polar opposites as their ears are used to them and able to find the nuances. likewise, outsiders probably find the Boro accent just like the Geordie one. furthermore those cities have had loads of exposure through media, whereas it is rare to hear middlesbrough accents on TV, which leads people to wrongly call it a variation of geordie. I have a friend from hartlepool and i always think his accent is weird, in fact for a few days i originally thought he was from Manchester!

tbh Geordies are a lot like Scousers, from my experience. one major difference is that scousers go on and on and on about they think they are different from the rest of England, whereas Geordies know they are so don't have to bleat on about it! ;):angel:

the scouse accent is part of the north-west english accent: furthermore those cities have had loads of exposure through media, whereas it is rare to hear middlesbrough accents on TV, which leads people to wrongly call it a variation of geordie. Sorry about that, I was quoting from published sources of recognised and respected linguists and academics. Books like 'The Story of English'; 'English, the living language'; etc. These authors also say that the South East English accent that we know, collectively, as "Cockney" is the most prevalent accent in all of English with variations spoken in Australia, NZ, South Africa and the sub continent and in many parts of the US.

Scouse owes more to the Irish cities of Dublin and Belfast 150 miles across the sea than it does to the English hinterland like Bolton, Burnley or Manchester. But I will defer to your superior knowledge if you can produce better credentials than the above published authors.:ohno:

Pretentious because of the determination of some parties to conflate civic identity, ethnicity, race and racism which considering Liverpool is one of the least ethnically diverse of all large English cities takes some gall. Yes I understand the influence of the Celtic connection but you do not see the Welsh nor the Scots playing the racism card nearly so frequently nor so frivilantly. Its all in pretty poor taste actually.

The other strand to this is that for the vast majority of people, regions constitue a mere geographical description. This almost goes without saying! The only English regions that have attached to them any strength of individual and cultural identity are perhaps Yorkshire, the North East and South West. Why scoucers feel the need to so fervently assert their seperateness from something that to everyone else is so obviously a non cultural entity is beyond me.



As for sleepyone, you cannot get round your hatred enough to ever read any of the posts about t'noowerthwest' to understand what the complaints are. Try Transpenninia, with Leeds as the designated or 'defacto' capital of the construct and see if your Manc objectivity stays the course?


Hatred? No. That's a character slur and inappropriate. Any designated or even 'defacto' regional capital is a fiction of your imagination and indicates you have fallen for a bit of pragmatic and economically expedient spin created by Manchester City Council. There is nothing stopping Liverpool claiming the same and such a claim would have the same substance! Ultimately your argument goes back to the same issues of geography, globalisation, a post industrial society, the differing nature of the two cities economies (one largely homogenous; the other more diverse), the Southward move of the centre of gravity of national economic power, a massive increase in state power, enormous social and technological changes and the respective impacts of all this on Liverpool and Manchester.

To put all the above down to regionalism is lazy and deceitful - however comforting this may be for a city that's fallen as far and as fast as Liverpool. Its a red herring Im afraid.

Anyway Im in danger of coming over as a hypocrite as I've unwittingly prolonged the deviation of the conversation away from the subject of the thread for which I apologise.

Just made an interesting point on that with regards to the possible 'spur' from Liverpool to Manchester for a maglev system. LONDON will decide what city will be able to maintain a foothold in the national and global economy (via London of course). Strategic decisions to favour one city over another has a compound effect over the decades. Manchester wins out over Liverpool every time one of these decisions is made.. figure it out for yourself!

A football analogy? Both cities are way down in the lower leagues when it comes to tryuly independent economic development and clout.... it is simply that the government buy the Manchester club a player every once in a while. This is obviously not 'anti-Liverpool' as they do it in recognition that Manchester has the best potential for promotion right now, so it is acting in the best strategic interests and prioritising vital funds.... it still bumps up the points difference though, year after year, decade after decade!

How our respective cities perform has little to do with how adept each metropolis is at innovation, entrepreneurialism and savviness. Until we understand that then neither city will develop its potential.

Jonnypd. Scouse is not a varient of the Lancashire accent.

What you're talking about is geography. Would you like Manchester to relocate itself to the coast so as to equalise any locational advantage gained by any investment in national or pan regional transport corridors?

The impact of this however is rather (if understandably) overstated by Liverpudlians when set alongside the factors listed in my previous post.

I also made the point in the maglev thread that Liverpool has been a great beneficiary from central government investment in its own public transport system.

In an ideal world both cities would be fully in charge of their own destinites - this goes without saying. In the absense of this both cities owe it to themselves to operate as effectively within the framework they find themselves at the same time as lobbying for change.
Indulging in the sort of idealism and myopia that a lot of scouse forumers on here do, really does liverpool no favours.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2008/02/19/jonathan-margolis-liverpool-i-love-you-89520-20324085/


A very positive article.

It does sound similar to a lot of "urban regeneration" articles about various cities over the last ten years written by parochical London-based journalists, though - the "fuck me, there's an art gallery in Hull!" strand of journalism.

Add that to the fact that this is from a journalist who once dubbed Liverpool "self-pity city", and he is perhaps not the most accurate indicator of the relative levels of investment or future prospects in Liverpool compared to other regional capitals. He presumably has low expectations of "the provinces" as a whole.

The point of putting the article up was not to show the 'positive' things that are happening in the city (when I read it my first thought was, where's this he's talking about'!) but to highlight how pieces can be warped beyond the intent of the writer (as he states) and then be perpetuated in popular and damaging myth for decades after it is let lose.

He said he never meant the 'self pity tag' but it was picked up by his 'liberal' compatriots' and spread like wildfire. These same 'liberals' are in charge of how Liverpool recovers, what city gets what prioritisation.

I find the Cardiff accent very similar to the Liverpool one, it's a similar regional mix, Ireland - Wales and Northern England (a lot of miners moved around the country as pits opened and closed).

I was also listening to Roy Keane on the TV the other day and thought there were distinct links with his Cork accent and the Liverpool accent.

In the world of mass media, poverty and privillage would appear to be the main drivers behind distinct accents. Everyone inbetween seems to interract with one another while the two groups at the extreme ends speak in their own language.

My favourite part of the country is the Weald

Both Welsh and Irish have shaped what is now the distinct and unique Liverpool accent. The Irish connection and influence on the city may be much more noisily heralded but the Welsh influence is much more profound.

As for the Cockney accent, that's gone. Kids down here talk in a mixture of South Asian (where "innit" comes from) Afro Carribean and received pronunciation. Estates next to million pound houses.

I'm from Cardiff and have a Cardiff accent. When living in London I was often mistaken for scouse. A friend of mine had a theory that port cities had similar traits when it came to accents, specifically that there would be many other influences affecting the dialect compared to cities in a hinterland. I suppose the link between Cardiff and Liverpool is the Welsh and Irish inluence in varying degrees. Cardiff also has a west country twinge to it whereas I suppose Liverpool must have been influenced by the Lancashire dialect.

I always used to think the Geordie accent was very much like parts of the south Wales valleys. When I was very young i thought When the Boat Comes In was set in Wales!

The cockney accent hasn't gone, its just moved to essex.

The Rhyl accent is very similar to the Liverpool accent, damn Scouse colonialists. ;)

All very interesting, the 'personal' opinions in the posts above, but I will stick with the theories and opinions of the learned academics and linguists, thank you.:)

A very positive article.

It does sound similar to a lot of "urban regeneration" articles about various cities over the last ten years written by parochical London-based journalists, though - the "fuck me, there's an art gallery in Hull!" strand of journalism.

Add that to the fact that this is from a journalist who once dubbed Liverpool "self-pity city", and he is perhaps not the most accurate indicator of the relative levels of investment or future prospects in Liverpool compared to other regional capitals. He presumably has low expectations of "the provinces" as a whole. The authors lack of economic credentials notwithstanding, I'm assuming you do agree that the article is a positive one and makes a change from the usual anti Scouse garbage published in the UK press and parroted by a few on this forum?

I'm not sure I would take the opinion of a "learned linguist" who talks about the "most unique accent in ALL of English."

Unique cannot be qualified as being "more unique" or "less unique" or "most unique". Something is either unique or it is not.

All very interesting, the 'personal' opinions in the posts above, but I will stick with the theories and opinions of the learned academics and linguists, thank you.:)

I thought it was travel writers you were quoting.

I thought it was travel writers you were quoting.
Also a Professor Piggot who happens to be the chair of the department of linguistics at McGill in Montreal. I'm not sure of the title of his paper (book?) on the subject but I think it was 'Sociolinguistics and Dialectology'. I do have the full quote about "Scouse" being the "newest and most distinct" accent in all of English. He devoted about a page and a half to Scouse. Also a fellow at Edinburgh University, a Prof. Monica Tamarize is quoted in the book, A journey through English" as describing Scouse as a "most distinctive hybrid of Plantation Irish, Dublin Irish and Welsh accents with the Lancashire accent thrown in for good measure", and, "the accent is unique inasmuch as it can only be found in one small city in England and is different even to some accents that are found on it's periphery and within it's own metropolitan boundaries". Also, from quotes Robert MacNeil, William Cran and Robert McCrum have written about Scouse, the accent, and all commented on it's uniqueness within the English language.

I have quite a collection of books on the English language and Scouse is mentioned in not to few of them.

"the accent is unique inasmuch as it can only be found in one small city in England and is different even to some accents that are found on it's periphery and within it's own metropolitan boundaries".

That quote could be about every accent in existence.

I'm curious as to what accents have to do with linguistics, I thought dialect would be a more linguistical concern

newcastle and middlesbrough accents are about as different as liverpool and manchester accents. (probably slightly more similar as there are far fewer people in the north-east compared to north-west)

the scouse accent is part of the north-west english accent, if there is one. scouse extends into north wales does it not? and i thought "liverpool bay" was it's own region? personally i find it difficult to differentiate between your nasally manc accent (terry christian, gallachers) and the scouse accent. very similar. though to people from round there they must seem complete polar opposites as their ears are used to them and able to find the nuances. likewise, outsiders probably find the Boro accent just like the Geordie one. furthermore those cities have had loads of exposure through media, whereas it is rare to hear middlesbrough accents on TV, which leads people to wrongly call it a variation of geordie. I have a friend from hartlepool and i always think his accent is weird, in fact for a few days i originally thought he was from Manchester!

tbh Geordies are a lot like Scousers, from my experience. one major difference is that scousers go on and on and on about they think they are different from the rest of England, whereas Geordies know they are so don't have to bleat on about it! ;):angel:

There isn't a generic North West English accent, at least not one that includes Liverpool.

However, the Liverpool accent has gradually spread out from the city to include the cities commuter belt, satellite towns and parts of North Wales.

This is similar to the cockneyfication of the Kent and Essex accents since the war.

The difference between the Newcastle (or Leeds or, largely, Manchester) accent and the Liverpool one is that the whole region around the city speaks similarly and always has. A Leeds accent is a type of West Riding accent, a Newcastle accent is a type of North East accent and most Manchester accents have great similarities to the accents of south east Lancs and north east Cheshire - and always have done, that's the difference.

The obvious Irish and Welsh influences explain a lot of why the Liverpool accent is so different from the surrounding region. Another is that, as Liverpool expanded it drew less on population from its surrounding region an more from people from further afield coming into the city. Leeds is a Yorkshire city, Manchester is of Lancashire. Liverpool hasn't really been a Lancashire town for centuries.

The new, weird Manchester accent that has appeared in the last generation is a little more difficult to fathom. Some of it might be youngsters exagerating their accents for streetcred reasons.

This Terry Christian type accent does sound more like a Scouse accent than most older Manchester accents, which are obviously more generally Lancs. However, it is not a case of there being a continuum of accents across the northwest. The towns inbetween Liverpool and Manchester, such as Saint Helens and Wigan don't have accents that sound like the new Manchester accent or a Scouse one either..

What seems to have happened it that, unbelievably, younger Mancunians have cultivated a new accent for their city and, with typical Mancunian lack of imagination (and a hilarious demonstration of that city's weird longing to be a another city many profess to despise), have based their new accent on the Scouse one. Basically, they were jealous that their city didn't have its own, distinctive accent like the Scousers did, so they invent one which sounds half Scouse. When are these people going to show some imagination?

Coudn't they have made it sound a little bit, I dunno, central European or West Country or something. It's always Liverpool that they are pretending to be. :ohno:

it is important to remember that Liverpool wasn't an English city with mainly English inhabitants, but lots of immigrants, it was a city made up almost entirely of immigrants. For example, before the massive influx of Irish, hundreds of thousands, the city had a population (even then very cosmopolitan) of 30k.

The Terry Christian bit is an exagerated Salford accent which has always been a bit different. Albert Finney had a more actorly version of it. My Oldham accent is easily distinguished from a Manchester accent.

I do think there is a coastal Lancashire accent, places like Barrow and Blackpool have a drawl more in tune with the big cities rather than places like Blackburn.

The most unique part of England linguistically must be Cornwall. It's got it's own language after all.

That quote could be about every accent in existence.

I'm curious as to what accents have to do with linguistics, I thought dialect would be a more linguistical concern You could be right on both counts. I am wondering though, if you personally think that Liverpool's accent is not distinct from that of St Helen's, Widness, Runcorn all within the Liverpool metropolitan area and Chorley or Manchester who are not and speak with a very similar accent, at least one that I can't differentiate between? Could be that those people (noticed I never mentioned linguists, dialecticians or authors) who think Scouse is "unique" are wrong and you are right. I am not qualified to argue either pro or con or, for that matter, defend their assertions so I won't.

The Terry Christian bit is an exagerated Salford accent which has always been a bit different. Albert Finney had a more actorly version of it. My Oldham accent is easily distinguished from a Manchester accent.

I do think there is a coastal Lancashire accent, places like Barrow and Blackpool have a drawl more in tune with the big cities rather than places like Blackburn.

The most unique part of England linguistically must be Cornwall. It's got it's own language after all.

Yes, different types of Lancs accent exist. Oldham is different to Manchester and so is Bury and Bolton and Blackburn.

But Liverpool's very different from all of them.

And no one speaks Cornish any more (apart from, well, hobbyists).

The most unique part of England linguistically must be Cornwall. It's got it's own language after all. Did have but, alas, I believe the last Cornish speaker died in the early nineteen eighties. Stand to be corrected on that.

Strange as it may seem, my grandmother, a Gaelic speaker, could understand Cornish, Brittaney and Scot's Gaelic but not Welsh. I remember Danial Farsons doing a documentary on the Cornish language and my nan being able to follow the speakers and translating for us before the voice over on the TV.

You could be right on both counts. I am wondering though, if you personally think that Liverpool's accent is not distinct from that of St Helen's, Widness, Runcorn all within the Liverpool metropolitan area and Chorley or Manchester who are not and speak with a very similar accent, at least one that I can't differentiate between? Could be that those people (noticed I never mentioned linguists, dialecticians or authors) who think Scouse is "unique" are wrong and you are right. I am not qualified to argue either pro or con or, for that matter, defend their assertions so I won't.

The only qualification I have is living in England for over 40 years. I can only go with what I hear.

All accents are unique but some are easier to distinguish. I don't understand Spanish too well but sitting on the tube or a bus I can tell an Argentinian voice from a Spanish voice fairly easily. It's even easier to tell a Brazillian from a Portuguese. even though I don't understand a word, but harder to tell a Brazillian from an Angolan.

All accents are unique, they are all made the same way, some just have more exotic ingredients or more clashing ingredients that give them a certain distinctness.

Did have but, alas, I believe the last Cornish speaker died in the early nineteen eighties. Stand to be corrected on that.

Strange as it may seem, my grandmother, a Gaelic speaker, could understand Cornish, Brittaney and Scot's Gaelic but not Welsh. I remember Danial Farsons doing a documentary on the Cornish language and my nan being able to follow the speakers and translating for us before the voice over on the TV.

I think Welsh is more continental. the Galatians as in St Paul's letter to the Galatians spoke a language close to Welsh (I have read somewhere) and the Galatians lived around what is now Ankara.