thanks mate,

yes that green on the old West stand was a darker green and you can clearly see the yellowing on the roof, compared to the newer stand beside it.

this yellowing looks awfall, Wembley stadium was the same too, but i expect glass is too heavy, expensive and fragile

mmm...could this be the light shining through giving a yellow-ish hue(hey,that rhymes)

ahh man what a great stadium i wish a prem team played in there

it's an awful stadium!

the outside is a concrete mess, the inside is drab, sure you get a good view, but so what.

I'd upload my pics from the Challenge Cup final, but I really don't want to. Why they bothered having it in London, instead of Cardiff (which is a great city, with a great stadium). Just meant a 3+ hour drive for both sets of fans. Awful




i'd have thought you'd enjoy a chance to get some decent weather coming down south.Lost count of the amount of times i've gone up north for an away game.London,sunny and warm,get to my destination,cold wet and miserable.
Plus you get a day out in the countries richest Borough.If its good enough for all those Rugby Union fans,it should be good enougn for you lot.Richmond on Thames is only 5 mins up the road,go there for a drink there.Richmond is fantastic
anyway,Cardiff must be a couple of hours drive at least from your neck of the woods

Why they bothered having it in London, instead of Cardiff (which is a great city, with a great stadium). Just meant a 3+ hour drive for both sets of fans. Awful

I don't know if the Millennium Stadium was even available that day, but the reason they rented Twickenham was that lots of fans had put down a large deposit on hotel rooms thinking that the final would be at Wembley...

i'd have thought you'd enjoy a chance to get some decent weather coming down south.Lost count of the amount of times i've gone up north for an away game.London,sunny and warm,get to my destination,cold wet and miserable.
Plus you get a day out in the countries richest Borough.If its good enough for all those Rugby Union fans,it should be good enougn for you lot.Richmond on Thames is only 5 mins up the road,go there for a drink there.Richmond is fantastic
anyway,Cardiff must be a couple of hours drive at least from your neck of the woods

oi!, I love rain.....honest....so being up north is much better..... :)

we're used to bad (I actually think good) weather up North, just you Londerners aren't prepared for life outside your posh little city... :jk:

From where we drove around, it didn't seem that rich, granted I saw two Ferraris....but that's besides the point. And having a dig at us League fans, should be ashamed of yourselves haha.

couldn't get to Richmond, so just tried to find a pub around Twickenham, of which, only one had any space at all (outside) and only had Fosters (which I now hate).

Yes, Cardiff isn't that much less of a drive than Twickenham, but I love the countryside driving down through Wales, when you get to the outskirts of Cardiff, theres plenty of signposts and notices (e.g the signs for away and home fans to use seperate entrys to the city at the League Cup final last year). The city is lovely, thought the main shopping area was clean and smart. Car Park was two minutes away from the ground, and was a mulit-storey instead of a field (official RFU parking field no less), and the ground itself is amazing, Twickenham is ugly beyond belief.

Fantastic venue. What will be the final capacity when finished, does anyone know?

oi!, I love rain.....honest....so being up north is much better..... :)

we're used to bad (I actually think good) weather up North, just you Londerners aren't prepared for life outside your posh little city... :jk:

From where we drove around, it didn't seem that rich, granted I saw two Ferraris....but that's besides the point. And having a dig at us League fans, should be ashamed of yourselves haha.

couldn't get to Richmond, so just tried to find a pub around Twickenham, of which, only one had any space at all (outside) and only had Fosters (which I now hate).

Yes, Cardiff isn't that much less of a drive than Twickenham, but I love the countryside driving down through Wales, when you get to the outskirts of Cardiff, theres plenty of signposts and notices (e.g the signs for away and home fans to use seperate entrys to the city at the League Cup final last year). The city is lovely, thought the main shopping area was clean and smart. Car Park was two minutes away from the ground, and was a mulit-storey instead of a field (official RFU parking field no less), and the ground itself is amazing, Twickenham is ugly beyond belief.


Please dont tell me your trying to compare Cardiff to London :runaway:

Fantastic venue. What will be the final capacity when finished, does anyone know?

around 82,000

I was at the double header and it was freezing.

Please dont tell me your trying to compare Cardiff to London :runaway:

nope, comparing Cardiff to the town of Twickenham.....the venue and immediate surroundings, yes I know you're going to say that comparing a major/capital city to a small town/borough is stupid. But Cardiff really is a much better place

When I'm next in London after this is finished I am going to plod along to take in a game. I just wish I liked rugby or they would allow a decent sport to be played here

i'm going to the second south africa test in november. :banana: that's it. just posting purely to brag, and i'm not even that arsed about rugby, but the atmosphere at an england twickenham autumn international is always class.

Interesting to see when people think it will be finished, looks to me like around Summer 2007.

Following on from that, does anybody have any inside information on whether the South Stand will be ready in time for the New Zealand Game in November?
That game is meant to herald the opening of the South Stand, but there is sooo much to do, like...finish the in situ concrete to the second tier, start it for the third tier, put seats on it etc. etc. And they haven't even started connecting the second and third tier to the existing structure! Not to mention the roof! Are they going to do the roof after the autumn internationals? Plus in the render's and maybe the video they show screens hanging from the roof, that would be cool if it happens?!

Questions questions, and so little time for answers!

I haven't heard any announcements that it won't be ready for 5 November, which is why I wrote "61 days to go..." on 5 September :)

Yes, there's a lot to do, but there's enough time to do it. The concrete sections are probably all in place on the second tier by now, and might have started going in on the third tier - I reckon all the steel rakers will be in by now. Since there are no games between now and November, they can now work on filling the gap between the South Stand and its neighbours, and if you look at some of the older photos online, the first seats in the bottom tier didn't go in until just before 17 January, and all seats were in place before 2 February, so it's only going to take about 15-20 days to install the seating in the upper two tiers. If the concourses and stairwells are already in place, there isn't much else that needs to be done to be ready for the New Zealand match - the RFU press releases basically say that the seating will be opened by the autumn internationals, but the whole stand (roof, hotel, offices etc.) won't be finished until summer 2007.

I don't know when new photos will be published on the RFU website, but I predict you'll feel a lot more confident when you see the next ones...

Update:

http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/september14_07.jpg
http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/september14_08.jpg
http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/september14_05.jpg
http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/september14_06.jpg
http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/september14_03.jpg
http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/september14_04.jpg
http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/september14_01.jpg
http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/september14_02.jpg

Looks like they're progressing well; the second tier construction work looks almost complete, and it appears as though they have started installing some seats. The third tier is also coming along well! :)

:cheers:

OK, so maybe I was a bit optimistic in my post on the 11th, but I'm still pretty bullish about the prospects of completion, especially now that the two cranes that used to sit in the middle of the second tier have been removed and seats have started going in...

I'm not sure what's happening on the pitch though - has there been another concert since the London double-header?

I admire your optimism and wish i could share it! I love this stadium and it going to be the best rugby stadium in the world when its complete (if it isn't already, im sure the Welsh and Australians etc might argue with that).

I think ill have more confidence when i actually start to see them constructing the sections to link the second and third tier to the existing structure. I just hope the instalation isn't a false dawn to convice us everything is going well! On a positive note there has been no news that the stand wont be ready for the 5th November.

82,000 England Rugby in one venue...fortress Twickenham will be back!

I think ill have more confidence when i actually start to see them constructing the sections to link the second and third tier to the existing structure.

If you look at this photo:

http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/september14_06.jpg

...you can see that the temporary board wall at the end of the second tier of the East Stand has been taken down since the London double-header (it's still in place on the third tier). All they need to do is connect the end rakers of the South and East Stands with some cross-bracing, then drop in the concrete sections (looking at that photos I think they will simply sit on the rakers currently holding up the currently-sited concrete)...

Coming along very nicely :D

To the nob who posted that he managed to get tix to the Boks match. Those tickets are a "b" international anyhow, right up there with Romania or Canada. Seeing the Aussies, Blacks or France is what you would bother paying for.

England usually beats the Springhacks by 50 at home.

To the nob who posted that he managed to get tix to the Boks match. Those tickets are a "b" international anyhow, right up there with Romania or Canada. Seeing the Aussies, Blacks or France is what you would bother paying for.

calm down, skippy. i've already seen the current world cup holders beat australia and new zealand at twickenham. south africa will simply make it the southern hemisphere hatrick!

now, to get us back on track, here's a couple of pictures taken inside two different stadiums:

that stadium that hosted the olympics in sydeny:
http://www.rugbyheaven.smh.com.au/ffximage/2003/11/22/ausveng32,0.jpg

and the oval, london:
http://www.greatblighty.com/wp-content/thumb-Ashes2005.jpg

:)

Them pictures are fighting pictures edennewstairs!!!!!. The Ashes shall return down under at the conclusion of this summer's series and the Poms will be whinging all the way back to Heathrow. As for the RWC? Australia may not win it next year but we'll go further in it than England will.

:okay: ;)

i agree though, england look a shambles heading towards the egg-chasers world cup. the ashes could go either way, though - looking forward to it!

Those builders work pretty fast dont they. Looking good :D

Thank god that someone here finally took a jibe in the spirit that it was intended. Well done edennewstairs. Well Done.

Also, I agree, Twickenham is looking good. One day I hope to actually go there.

One question for the mods here. What is going on with the avatars?

http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/september25_01.jpg
http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/september25_02.jpg
http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/september25_03.jpg
http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/september25_04.jpg
http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/september25_05.jpg
http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/september25_06.jpg
http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/september25_07.jpg
http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/september25_08.jpg
http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/september25_09.jpg
http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/september25_10.jpg
http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/september25_11.jpg
http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/september25_12.jpg
http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/september25_13.jpg
http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/september25_14.jpg
http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/september25_15.jpg
http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/september25_16.jpg

Looking good.

Can't wait for the day when I see the AB's play England here.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/english/5404560.stm

"The Rugby Football Union is hopeful Twickenham's South Stand will be ready for the grand opening on 5 November, when England host New Zealand."

Will CharlieP end up with egg on his face...?

Even if they didnt finish the whole bowl by 5 November im sure most would agree that they still built those stands pretty fast!! How much quicker can you get?

There hasn't been a photo update for a while - are the RFU covering their embarassment?

25 days until the New Zealand Test and counting...

I just received the following press release from the RFU in my email:

http://www.rfu.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/RFUHome.England_Detail/StoryID/14895

19 days to the New Zealand Test...

I've just found this thread on an unofficial England Rugby forum:

http://www.sportnetwork.net/boards/read/s245.php?f=387&i=60711&t=60711&sid=245

On 5 Oct (31 days before the New Zealand Test), the first section of the upper tier was in place, along with all the supporting steelwork for the other sections, and half the seats in the middle tier. Just wish there were photos to show this!

http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/october24_01.jpg
http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/october24_02.jpg
http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/october24_03.jpg
http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/october24_04.jpg
http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/october24_05.jpg
http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/october24_06.jpg
http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/october24_07.jpg
http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/october24_08.jpg

12 days until the New Zealand Test. Crapweasels! :(

For comparison, this was the state of completeness 12 days before the Wales Six Nations match....

http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/east_view1_230106.jpg

...and this is how much they managed to get done in the following 11 days:

http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/east_view1_030206.jpg

Man they work fassst!!!!!!

Fassst enough though...??

I can't see it being done. After the seats are added they still have to add the roof. Whats the news with a safety certificate too?

Let's hope they pull it off, and England win the game to celebrate the completed Twickenham!

The roof was never expected to be in place for the autumn internationals. From memory the safety certificate was awarded for the bottom tier on the morning of the Friday, so I expect it will be a last-minute job this time round...

Meh, I still can't see it all being ready -the 3rd tier, all the seating, the roof, entrances and facilities in that section of the stadium, all the safety checks etc etc- in less then 12 days....but who knows....not me certainly, I said Wembley would be ready for the 2006 FA Cup final... ;)

But still, even if they don't get in ready for the New Zealand match, it is no shame on their part, because the rate at which they have knocked down and built this stand has been incredible!!

:cheers:

No way will this be ready. They shouldnt even try, dont want to botch up what is otherewise a great job in a great stadium.

Actually, if you look at the state of readiness of the lower tier 12 days before the Wales Six Nations game, it's about the same as the state of readiness of the upper tier now, with less seats to install this time.

I therefore think it quite probable that all the seats will be in place by the time of the NZ match. The roof is irrelevant. They can stage a big game at the stadium without the roof. The big question, however, is whether safety requirements will be met. Will all the stairways be complete and safe? Will all the barriers be in place? Will all the toilets be installed and working? etc.

Somehow, I doubt it.

Actually, if you look at the state of readiness of the lower tier 12 days before the Wales Six Nations game, it's about the same as the state of readiness of the upper tier now, with less seats to install this time.

You're right, there are fewer seats to go in, but on the other hand these seats are a lot higher off the ground, which adds a substantial overhead. The main thing that worries me is that the "joins" between the South Stand and the existing West and East seem to take a lot of time and effort (though maybe there was a good reason these were left until last) - if these joins were finished on the top tier I would stick my neck out and say that tier would be finished by 5 November, but as things stand I don't want to call it.

I therefore think it quite probable that all the seats will be in place by the time of the NZ match. The roof is irrelevant. They can stage a big game at the stadium without the roof. The big question, however, is whether safety requirements will be met. Will all the stairways be complete and safe? Will all the barriers be in place? Will all the toilets be installed and working? etc.

That, of course, is the $64,000 question. Unfortunately we can't tell from the webcam photos, so we just have to hope that the concourses are all substantially complete. The RFU's last press statement did say that they have been liaising closely with the authorities at all times, so it's not as though they're just going to do as much as they can and then put in a speculative application next Friday afternoon - they will already have clear instructions from Richmond council that X, Y and Z must be completed for a safety certificate to be granted for 5 November, so will know exactly what needs to be done in terms of concourses...

You're right, there are fewer seats to go in, but on the other hand these seats are a lot higher off the ground, which adds a substantial overhead. The main thing that worries me is that the "joins" between the South Stand and the existing West and East seem to take a lot of time and effort (though maybe there was a good reason these were left until last) - if these joins were finished on the top tier I would stick my neck out and say that tier would be finished by 5 November, but as things stand I don't want to call it.

I agree with you that it is highly unlikely that they could complete the "joins" between the South stand and the West and East in twelve days. However, I'm not sure that they need to, so my guess is that they won't even try. If they can put up temporary barriers to ensure that no one gets anywhere near the edge, then they can go ahead with the majority of the upper tier in place.

I agree with you that it is highly unlikely that they could complete the "joins" between the South stand and the West and East in twelve days. However, I'm not sure that they need to, so my guess is that they won't even try. If they can put up temporary barriers to ensure that no one gets anywhere near the edge, then they can go ahead with the majority of the upper tier in place.

That's a good suggestion, although putting temporary barriers back up would also mean having to close off a whole section of seating (150-200 or so) in both the West and East Stands, which will have already been sold. Mind you, the upper South Stand seats have supposedly already been sold too...

In the lead-up to the Six Nations there were webcam updates every day so we could all watch the mad dash to complete the lower tier - why can't they do the same thing this month...? :(

If you look at the pictures posted yesterday, you can clearly see the executive boxes above tier 2 are just shells. The walls and ceiling are not even lined. Were these sold for the match does any one know?

i love this stadium if only the fa cup finals were played here while wembley is being built

^^^^^^^^^

That would be one of like having one of those "honky-tonk" American preachers staging a service at St. Paul's or even worse American baseball(rounders) at Lord's.

From http://www.rfu.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/RFUHome.Simple_Detail/StoryID/14998:

South Stand update: 28th October 2006

The construction project is on track to achieve the RFU's aim of increasing stadium capacity to 82,000 in time for the start of the Investec Challenge series. The seats in the middle tier of the south stand are now in place and the installation of the seats in the upper tier began yesterday (Thursday).
The infills joining the new south stand to the existing east and west stands are almost complete and it is anticipated they will be finalised this weekend.
The two new scoreboards (one in the north and one in the south stands) are currently being installed and should be finalised and tested by Monday (30th). The two new video screens (one in the north and one in the south stands) will be installed next week.
Both of the two new pedestrian ramps (allowing access to the seats up to level five of the south stand) are now complete and ready for use.
The new south stand corporate boxes are proceeding on schedule with the fit out due to start over the weekend.


Previous -

South Stand update 20th October:

Progress has been good this week with favourable weather conditions. The middle tier 'in fills' which join the new South Stand to the existing East and West middle tier will be in place by Monday 23rd, and the infills for the upper tier are expected to be complete by the end of next week.
Progress for the installation of the seats is on track and most of the seats on the middle tier are now installed. The project remains on target to achieve its aim of completing the seating bowl and increasing the capacity of Twickenham Stadium to 82,000 in time for the November 5th Investec Challenge match between England and New Zealand.
For the autumn series, temporary bars and toilet facilities will be installed within the south stand concourse areas to ensure the spectators in the south stand still have a high level of amenity comparable with the rest of the ground.
Confirmation has been received that 34 of the 38 South Stand hospitality boxes will be completed and in use in time for the 5th November. Again, this is ahead of schedule. The remaining four boxes are anticipated to be completed for the match against South Africa.
Entertainment for the celebration match against New Zealand on 5th November is due to be announced shortly and will include pyrotechnics and a leading music act. The two new screens (one in the North and one in the South stands) will also be in place alongside a new scoreboard system.

From http://www.rfu.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/RFUHome.Simple_Detail/StoryID/14998:

South Stand update: 28th October 2006

The construction project is on track to achieve the RFU's aim of increasing stadium capacity to 82,000 in time for the start of the Investec Challenge series. The seats in the middle tier of the south stand are now in place and the installation of the seats in the upper tier began yesterday (Thursday).
The infills joining the new south stand to the existing east and west stands are almost complete and it is anticipated they will be finalised this weekend.
The two new scoreboards (one in the north and one in the south stands) are currently being installed and should be finalised and tested by Monday (30th). The two new video screens (one in the north and one in the south stands) will be installed next week.
Both of the two new pedestrian ramps (allowing access to the seats up to level five of the south stand) are now complete and ready for use.
The new south stand corporate boxes are proceeding on schedule with the fit out due to start over the weekend.

scoreboards and video screens at both ends? i didn't know that. i like!

http://www.rfu.com/microsites/sstand/furniture/Stadium_Bowl_Persp.jpg

looking forward to seeing the stadium on tv on sunday.

I'm not sure how they're going to install the video screen in the South Stand when the roof isn't going to be in place until next year...

Does that scoreboard say England 78 France 0?

I'm guessing the render isn't accurate, because any seats behind that screen are going to have blocked views of the far end of the pitch, regardless. - perhaps the screen is going to be sat on the terracing up the upper tiers, rather than supported from the roofing?

Twickenham Stadium South Stand Update (http://www.rfu.com/microsites/twickenham/index.cfm?StoryID=15056)

Friday 3rd November

The seats in the south stand are now in place, with final checks to be done tomorrow. This takes Twickenham's capacity to 82,000 which will mean a record crowd for Sunday's Investec Challenge match between England and New Zealand.
The safety certificate has been received from Richmond Council, with all aspects agreed between the two parties.
The two new scoreboards are now in place and have been tested, and the two new videoscreens are almost complete with final testing tomorrow (Saturday).
The south stand hospitality boxes are in the final stages of completion, and the caterers are set to undertake their final preparations in the next 24 hours, ready for the guests on Sunday.

...Again the RFU shows the FA again how it should be done...

Well there were some greats shots from the England V's New Zealand match on the BBC today, looking into Twickenham from a vantage point high above the newly constructed South Stand. In a way, putting a roof over this stand would have not made the view of looking down into the stadium possible. Then again, it was dry today, on a wet day, I'm sure visitor comfort becomes a priority, and in that respect a roof is a necessity.

Does that scoreboard say England 78 France 0?

I'm guessing the render isn't accurate, because any seats behind that screen are going to have blocked views of the far end of the pitch, regardless. - perhaps the screen is going to be sat on the terracing up the upper tiers, rather than supported from the roofing?

It would seem, from today's pictures, that, indeed, my cogitation was correct. The screens at both ends seem to sit on the terracing, rather than hang from the roof. I'm wondering if that would cause restricted views from the back rows beside the screens though? Anyone able to shed any light on what the seating around the screens is like?

It would seem, from today's pictures, that, indeed, my cogitation was correct. The screens at both ends seem to sit on the terracing, rather than hang from the roof. I'm wondering if that would cause restricted views from the back rows beside the screens though? Anyone able to shed any light on what the seating around the screens is like?


you can see that the seating at the side of the screens is angled,so sightlines should not be affected

Something did not exactly go to plan against the Blacks for poor old England.

With the Ashes belting coming, it appears that normal service has resumed for England sporting fans.

Lifted from flickr. Credit to the photographer(s)

The old girl looks good now doesn't she.

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/2019/twickenham226pg3.jpg

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/9410/twickenham227ea7.jpg

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/3259/twickenham228ub1.jpg

rugby league alive and well in Britain...healthy super league crowds,over 70k for the grand-final
Agreed, & good stuff for GB winning the test, it keeps the series interesting. :)

Twickenham is starting to look awesome BTW!!

Great photos - if I go to the Argentina match on Saturday I'll take some of my own :)

noticed that the third tier on the South is shorter than the rest of the third tier around the stadium, the green back wall (temporary I assume?) is lower down than the back wall on the rest of the stadium

We should beat the argies on Saturday, despite suffering a record home defeat, it's got to be put in perspective. New Zealand are an awesome team, they have a fly-half (Carter) who can kick goals from almost any angle. And we did score 3 tries, and had one by noon dissallowed. There was a time a few years ago, when we couldn't buy a try. I was quite pleased with our expansive play last weekend. However, it does show just how strong the All Blacks are at present.

Twickers is looking absolutely kick-ass!! great pics on the previous page btw, thanx for uploading them. Yes, the top South tier does look a little shorter then it does round the rest of the stadium...this could be just a temporary measure untill the roof is installed, who knows....does any1 know btw??

The pics make it looks awesome. Once more, as an Irishman having to suffer through the debacle that is the new Lansdowne Road, I am majorly jealous of the size of Twickers.
I don't want to take this thread off topic, but what is going wrong with Lansdown Road???

http://static.flickr.com/111/290432608_4b24ff3c3f_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/103/290432603_4649e6cd0c_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/113/290589012_b872c662b3_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/117/290589005_31c32697f4_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/122/290589032_8709594a3b_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/99/289815015_b8b1d6fd02_b.jpg

I don't want to take this thread off topic, but what is going wrong with Lansdown Road???

In brief;

1/ The capacity - this year, Ireland are playing their 6 Nations games at Croke Park with a capacity of 82,000. These games, with average ticket prices of about £55 are selling out easily and not even on the open market - IRFU distributes tickets through rugby clubs. If, with an 82,000 capacity stadium, there still isn't going to be trickle down to open market sales, the new stadium with a capacity of 50,000 (no increase at present) is obviously a severe underestimate of demand for Ireland tickets. As it is, the best chance to see an Ireland international at the minute is to go to away games at Murrayfield. For a new stadium to be build with a capacity of 50,000 when there is demand in excess of 80,000 for tickets is ridiculous. No other commercial body would even contemplate such insanity.

2/ The shape of the stadium itself - the tiny bus shelter that is the proposed North End. For the Autumn Internationals last year, the North Terrace at Lansdowne was closed because of a small fire underneath it. During the Autumn matches, atmosphere just leaked away because of this - having a North End in the new stadium with less than 20 rows of seating, compared with three tiers the rest of the way around, atmosphere again will just leak out of the stadium.

3/ The sheer cost of the project (300m+ euro) with so little to actually be gained from it - the only significant increases are to do with the corporate hospitality. There will be none in capacity and little in revenue for the IRFU / FAI. Again, no sane commercial body would even contemplate a complete rebuild of a stadium at such a high cost for so few gains.

4/ Forgive how glib this sounds, but the history of the place will be lost. While the current ground is, mostly, from the 70s and 80s, the houses of Lansdowne and Wanderers rugby clubs are fantastic and are going to be bulldozed to make way for the new stadium. If the stadium was going to be a significant improvement in capacity of the current one, perhaps this would be understandably, but as it is, the capacity won't increase by anything over 2,000, if that.

Sorry to go back off topic here for a moment but BobdaBuilder, get your facts right before you post about interest in rugby league ok.

22 years ago in Sydney the average crowd for 2 tests played there between Australia & Great Britain was 24,473 compared with the 24,953 who showed up to Aussie Stadium last week and at least 35 to 40,000 who are expected for the final at Aussie Stadium. The 2002 Australia v GB match in Sydney had a crowd of 31,844. In 1987 Australia played NZ at Lang Park (Suncorp Stadium) in front of only 16,500 fans. In 1988 Australia v GB attracted 24,480 & 15,944 respectively for the 1st & 3rd Ashes tests at the SFS (Aussie Stadium). This years ANZAC Test attracted 44,191 people to Suncorp Stadium. The corresponding test in 2005 attracted 40,317 fans. The 1991 Australia v NZ test in Melbourne had a 26,900 crowd at Olympic Park. The November 21 Aus v NZ test at Telstra Dome attracted 30,732.

Waning interest? Crowds are actually higher than before mate. Again, check the facts first.

noticed that the third tier on the South is shorter than the rest of the third tier around the stadium, the green back wall (temporary I assume?) is lower down than the back wall on the rest of the stadium

The temporary wall will have been erected a couple of rows from the back of the third tier for safety reasons - the same thing happened with the lower tier:

http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/east_view1_030206.jpg
http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/east_view1_030206c.jpg

The temporary wall will have been erected a couple of rows from the back of the third tier for safety reasons - the same thing happened with the lower tier:

http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/east_view1_030206.jpg
http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/east_view1_030206c.jpg

thanks for clearing that up, I just thought it was odd when I saw it

Now, I'm not denying that the mighty scale of Twickenham is impressive and friends who have been to games tell me that the atmosphere is miles better than at Murrayfield. However, given that this is an architechture forum, is it not true to say that the stadium itself is a bit bland? I kind of miss the eccentricities of the old Twickenham - all the mismatched stands and the terraces. Same goes for Murrayfield - it was miles more interesting to look at (and spectate) before they turned it into a dull all seater. Fair do's: the facilities are much better these days at both stadia but its all a bit sanitised and soulless. Or am I sounding like my dad?

My point is: has it been a worthwhile trade off to lose character for comfort and capacity?

If you've ever stood in the North Terrace at Lansdowne Road on a wet, cold January when Ireland were getting the stuffing knocked out of them by every team that visited, you'd already have your answer.

Don't get me wrong, the atmosphere at Lansdowne is fantastic and I love the character of the old ground, but it's just not practical to have a stadium like that in this day and age.

one of my favourite stadiums

OK, I've finally signed up for a Photobucket account so that I can show my photos without it counting against my ISP's traffic limits :). Even though my ticket was for the top of the North Stand, I bumped into a team-mate and his friends at the station - one of their party had pulled out so I sat with them on the second tier of the South Stand. Here goes:

The join between the South Stand and East Stand:

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q85/CharlieP1973/cp20061111132628_1600x1200.jpg

The join between the West Stand and South Stand (you can see the bottom of one of the roof supports):

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q85/CharlieP1973/cp20061111133519_1600x1200.jpg

One of the spiral access ramps for the South Stand (with the hotel development behind it, access to the middle and upper tier seats is only possible by feeding spectators into the western and eastern ends of the concourses). It's quite a walk - six rotations to reach the middle tier seemed to take an eternity, so the top tier must be a real trek!

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q85/CharlieP1973/cp20061111140436_1200x1600.jpg

Internal view from the middle tier of the South Stand. The box in the North-West corner is new - presumably this is to replace the big green box that used to sit in the gap between the South and West Stands (stadium control?):

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q85/CharlieP1973/cp20061111141313_1600x1200.jpg

View showing the back of the middle tier - this will eventually incorporate hotel rooms with a view of the pitch:

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q85/CharlieP1973/cp20061111141322_1600x1200.jpg

Views of the upper tier (with more of the roof supports visible):

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q85/CharlieP1973/cp20061111141331_1600x1200.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q85/CharlieP1973/cp20061111141355_1600x1200.jpg

View showing the rather generous gap between the pitch and lower tier - they could add a few thousand to capacity by lowering the pitch and adding more seats, but I don't know how that would affect viewing angles:

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q85/CharlieP1973/cp20061111151155_1600x1200.jpg

is that the final place for the video screens?i was under the impression they would hang them from the roof?

with thanks to charlie:

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/4034/cp200611111413131600x12ot2.jpg

Arguably the best rugby stadium in the world

What has gotten into you recently Bob?? You're acting like a complete and utter twat, and I don't remember you always being this way....appreciate it if you'd just not comment on here if all you are gonna do is spowt crap, thanx.

Great shots btw CharlieP, a very worthy forumer!! Does anyone know when they actually expect the stadium to be 'fully' complete, you know, the roof and hotel and corporate boxes etc???

:cheers:

Looks awesome!

it reminds me of the stade de france

it reminds me of the stade de france

Eh? Apart from the capacity, I can't see a single similarity! The Stade de France has an iconic "floating" roof, a "saddleback" upper tier, a retractable lower tier, no green seats and a steel skeleton.

twickenham yesterday: :)

http://static.sky.com/images/pictures/1492336.jpg

It's a pity that there haven't been any further updates to the webcam images since October on rfu.com

This was the last stage to have photos published on the site:

http://www.rfu.com/images/webcam_images/october24_08.jpg

Since then, the top tier has been opened and the official capacilty of 82,000 has been hit for the mis-match against the All-Blacks.

With the 6 Nations due to start soon, it's looking like the next chance we'll get to see the progress since then (like how's the roof construction getting on?) will be on TV on February 3rd (a week on Saturday) for the Calcutta Cup game.

Unless anyone else knows any different...

south stand last weekend:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/134/379265436_558dd30f02_o.jpg

It really is a stunning stadium now - on the inside.

Once the roof is on and the other South Stand developments are complete, they really should do something to tart up the exterior and it would be a truly fantastic ground.

I do feel that it's rather underrated here in the UK by the general sporting public. Perhaps because it's a rugby-only venue in a country obsessed with football and partly because it's evolved into the fruition of its masterplan over what, 17 years now?

I'm certain that an 82,000 venue with such perfect lines and symmetry built elsewhere from scratch would have generated more admiration and perhaps that's to Twickenham's detriment. Visiting 6 Nations fans always seem to be more in awe of the place than most English sports fans are. I think we have largely neglected the importance of the place, possibly taken it for granted, which is rather a shame.

More pictures please!

symmetry is all well and good when it's interesting symmetry, unfortunately Twickenham is simply boring, inside and out. Plus it's in a suburb of London, and although the whole country seems to revolve around London, not everyone outside of London cares enough about Rugby Union to watch a game (either live, or on TV)

But that's kind of my point. It suffers for all the wrong reasons when without all the baggage, I'm sure it would have more standing.

Look again at the picture from last Saturday. If someone had told you that it was a render for the new Juventus stadium in Turin or the impending Liverpool stadium in Stanley Park, I'm sure it would be far more widely admired than it is. I just feel it is a jewel that we don't really appreciate enough.

Yes the outside is a bit rough but inside it's clean, simple and efficient. Only Wembley will beat it for size in the UK and it will eventually be fully covered. It even has two big screens now, so it's officially joined the 21st century technology race.

All the other stuff you mentioned is true and it brings the perception of the place down when to me it shouldn't. Architectuarally speaking, I'd prefer it to most of the stadia in the NFL, for example.

Actually the outside of the stadium is also being revamped, (outside the new stand anyway) im sure there are some renders here somwhere.

If you look closely at Twickenham, it's actually far from symmetrical, but I try not to let it bother me...

symmetry is all well and good when it's interesting symmetry, unfortunately Twickenham is simply boring, inside and out. Plus it's in a suburb of London, and although the whole country seems to revolve around London, not everyone outside of London cares enough about Rugby Union to watch a game (either live, or on TV)

thats pretty ironic when considering the complaints against Old Trafford.

What happened to all the houses at the South Stand end?

What happened to all the houses at the South Stand end?

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/78/213524242_022f975392.jpg?v=0

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/78/213524242_022f975392.jpg?v=0

:D :applause:
quality post

The RFU owned the houses already.

twickenham from the "sarf" stand on saturday, by yours truly:

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/9328/1010136iy1.jpg

Do you have any shots of the exterior works? It would be interesting to compare with mine in post #563...

Incidentally, I noticed something last night when the BBC were running the 'club v country' story on the news.

You know the 'eye candy' image behind the sports reporter that represents the subject they're covering at that point? It was the usual visual metaphor thing you'd expect, a rugby ball and empty stand almost in silhouette. I'm sure they've used this image for years to denote all rugby union (and league -Grrr!) stories in the sports roundup bit of the news.

Last night, I noticed that it was in all likelihood 'Old' Twickenham, I think the old West Stand from the early 90's. I know the BBC is publicly-funded and has to demonstrate value but I think they're due a more up-to-date image than this one of a stand that has't existed for over 12 years!

I can't find the image concerned but imagine you were lay down under the sticks in the far side of the picture below, with a camera trained towards the bottom-right-hand corner of the pitch/West Stand, taking a picture with a ball 'stood' in the foreground. Can you imagine the picture? That's exactly the image I'm talking about.

http://www.compuserve.co.uk/channels/sport/rugby/five_nations/structure_images/twickenham.jpg

The finest stadium in the British Isles. Amusingly soccer is not welcome there. :applause:

Bump!

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/190/462670288_c5a08625d9_o.jpg

Just 33 days until the Heineken Cup Final - hopefully the roof will be complete by then...

Taken yesterday (not by me):

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/191/463825431_1c531303df_b.jpg[/

I love Twickenham, it is probably prettier to see than Wembley ;)

Another good one from the EDF Energy final:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/223/471082107_598ca919b6_o.jpg

Another good recent shot taken last week:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/228/491686059_53606510cb_o.jpg

Now, I've assumed all along that the roof would match that of the existing horseshoe, but looking at it, it seems as though the currently-installed panels could be the final finish - much lighter and with narrower dividing sections. It certainly looks a lot better, but you'd hope they would go the whole hog and redo the rest of the stadium that way...

Needles to say, Twickenham really rocks!
It's one of my favorite stadia! I wish we could 've had soccer matches in a stadium similar to this one (since, Twickenham is actually a rugby-exclusive venue).

is that not simply a case of the roof panels not being dirty like the other ones?i.e. they were once clear but over time have become that musky yellow or are the rest of the stadiums panels specifically that colour?

Yes, the older roof panels have yellowed over the years, but what I was trying to say was that the style of panelling itself seems different. On the older stands, the roof seems to consist long transparent rectangles bordered by more opaque material, whereas on the South Stand the equivalent borders seem to be much narrower.

Of course, I might have jumped to the wrong conclusion, and the final glazing might not even have started to go on yet, but that would surprise me since the showpiece finals are imminent...

Another good recent shot taken last week:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/228/491686059_53606510cb_o.jpg

Now, I've assumed all along that the roof would match that of the existing horseshoe, but looking at it, it seems as though the currently-installed panels could be the final finish - much lighter and with narrower dividing sections. It certainly looks a lot better, but you'd hope they would go the whole hog and redo the rest of the stadium that way...

Its looking great:banana:

The finest stadium in the British Isles. Amusingly soccer is not welcome there. :applause:

i've been to both. twickenham's a fantastic venue, but wembley's better. one thing they could both improve on though are the transport links. getting to and from each stadium's a nightmare.

Havn't seen an image of the outside of the stadium in aaaaaaaages.

OK, it looks as though I was mistaken - from close-ups on TV today, it looks as though the actual glazing hasn't started yet, so the South Stand roof will eventually look just like the rest...

The South Stand on Saturday:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/219/496696808_0bcc859736_b.jpg

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/5945/42948633twickers416qr9.jpg

From the BBC website, 2 superb London stadiums shown off in one weekend

great stadium

Found this photo on Flickr, which is pretty compelling evidence that the South Stand roof will eventually match the others:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/224/527547339_b5c55c20dd_b.jpg

Notice how, presumably due to the angle of the sun, most of the South Stand roof segments have a blueish segment filling most of them, surrounded by a lighter border which exactly matches the dark border around the yellowed translucent panels in the East Stand roof...

There's no more rugby at HQ until 4 August, so the builders shouldn't be slowed down by safety considerations, and when England play Wales on that date the roof should be finished.

OK, now it looks as though that is the final roof:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1231/604005569_04f9fe4a30_b.jpg

Just hope they take out the solid sections in the south-west and south-east corners...

Notice how, presumably due to the angle of the sun, most of the South Stand roof segments have a blueish segment filling most of them, surrounded by a lighter border which exactly matches the dark border around the yellowed translucent panels in the East Stand roof...

Just hope they take out the solid sections in the south-west and south-east corners...

Kinda like the Millennium Stadium in reverse!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/leeds/content/images/2006/05/18/stadium_posts_400x300.jpg

How old is that East Stand now? About 15 years? I'm thinking that's why the roof has yellowed so much (although I don't remember it ever looking as clear as the South Stand does now).

The East Stand's about 14 years old - I went to watch England v Canada at Wembley in 1992 because it was being rebuilt that autumn, so it was probably opened in 1993.

twickenham yesterday, during england's demolition of wales.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1339/1016208755_1905b4083e_b.jpg

If you look at the yellow-jacketed steward standing in the bottom left (further up from the seated one), and go back three rows into the crowd, there I am! Hello!

Took some decent photos which I've yet to upload, but check out this one somebody took:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1359/1016819690_9d46d1426a_b.jpg

twickenham yesterday, during england's demolition of wales.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1339/1016208755_1905b4083e_b.jpg

Looking good:cheers:

We were sitting three rows from the front yesterday:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1167/1020714109_95c61f07c0_b.jpg

Jonny strikes again:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1134/1020778069_6f347ce841_b.jpg

they'd better do something about the roof

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2331/2089000818_4303dba04d_b.jpg

bigger one
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mizz_leila/2089000818/sizes/o/


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1265/544200936_8527b54513_o.jpg


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2314/2357234157_bcdb40f39e_b.jpg

bigger one
http://www.flickr.com/photos/aaronsc/2357234157/sizes/o/

Twickers is looking great as ever

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1265/544200936_8527b54513_o.jpg

Classic case of 'don't judge a book by it's cover'...

Twickenham looks so much better now that its "finished" To me the only disappointing thing is that its not a 90,000 seat stadium like Wembley but hey, $hit happens.

Perhaps slightly off topic but what was the capacity of Twickenham before the renovations in the nineties?

it was 75,000 :D

Perhaps slightly off topic but what was the capacity of Twickenham before the renovations in the nineties?

Probably around 60,000.

1991: North Stand opens - capacity 60,000

1993: East Stand opens - capacity 68,000

1995: West Stand opens - capacity 76,000

2006: South Stand opens - capacity 82,000

One of the great stadiums.

Does anybody else keep thinking "I wish they'd replace the West/North/East Stand roof" every time they see Twickenham on TV? Or at the very very least take out those opaque segments where the horseshoe used to end...

I'd also like to see the pitch lowered by a metre or two so they can add five or six rows closer to the touchlines, more corporate boxes in the gaps at the very top and the walkways lined up with the vomitories, but I'm just fussy... :)

It's worth pointing out that there are a couple of big milestones coming up. The first match played at Twickenham was Harlequins v Richmond on 2 October 1909, and the first international was England v Wales on 15 January 1910.

More on Twickenham's Centenary Season:

http://www.rfu.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/RFUHome.News_Detail/StoryID/23007

How many other major world stadia still in use today can claim a 100th birthday? I can only think of Cardiff Arms Park, Lansdowne Road, Melbourne Cricket Ground and Sydney Cricket Ground...

More on Twickenham's Centenary Season:

http://www.rfu.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/RFUHome.News_Detail/StoryID/23007

How many other major world stadia still in use today can claim a 100th birthday? I can only think of Cardiff Arms Park, Lansdowne Road, Melbourne Cricket Ground and Sydney Cricket Ground...

Lords, Hampden Park

More on Twickenham's Centenary Season:

http://www.rfu.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/RFUHome.News_Detail/StoryID/23007

How many other major world stadia still in use today can claim a 100th birthday? I can only think of Cardiff Arms Park, Lansdowne Road, Melbourne Cricket Ground and Sydney Cricket Ground...

Lords, Hampden Park
As well as dozens of English and Scottish football stadiums such as Old Trafford, Anfield, Celtic Park, and Ibrox, among many others.

There are a few stadiums here in the USA that have celebrated or are approaching their 100th birthday, but I don't think they're of that much world significance.

Magnifico estadio

Lords, Hampden Park

Adelaide Oval is another. Opened in 1871 and has been the home of South Australian cricket since.

amazing :O

Wow, this is an amazing Rugby stadium :D

After the phased reconstruction of the stadium in the 90s/00s, the stadium's stands may look complete, but the roof at the new South Stand does not match the others. I hope they fix the South stand's roof to match well with the roof at the other three stands.

After the phased reconstruction of the stadium in the 90s/00s, the stadium's stands may look complete, but the roof at the new South Stand does not match the others. I hope they fix the South stand's roof to match well with the roof at the other three stands.

I hope they fix the roof on the other three stands - the South Stand's is far, far better looking.

Very impressive, i like. Regards.

Frankly, the roof on the new stand looks like it is transparent. The others do not. What is the only way to make the roof the same look in all four of the stands?

maybe becasue of:
-stand with the transparent roof is the south stand (sunlight)
-south stand is newer / other ones are older

?

The South stand roof is significantly newer because that was the last stand to be renovated (the exterior of that stand is totally different as well. I would have thought it would be easier to replace the other 3 because it would be easier to get hold of the materials used for the newer roof.

I'd like to see some sort of cladding on the exterior of the other 3 stands to cover up the rather unsightly concrete structure.

Attached to the south stand is a structure containing a 156-room Marriott Hotel with six VIP suites overlooking the field. Also within the structure is a performing arts complex, a health and leisure club, and a new rugby shop. Also, it's going to cost a lot of money to add a new facade to build an exterior facade for the other 3 stands. How should the facade be added, anyway?

By Redstone Hill

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4126/5046409691_1b9456dbb6_b.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/redstonehill/5046409691/

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/redstonehill/5046547983/

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/redstonehill/5046433943/

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/redstonehill/5046162982/

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/redstonehill/5045286859/

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4126/5046453817_19499b9ff4_b.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/redstonehill/5046453817/

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4153/5045998507_85772a74ae_b.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/redstonehill/5045998507/

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/redstonehill/5045951252/

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/redstonehill/5045899437/

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5134/5543902412_9c90dbeb4a_b.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lexich_76/5543902412/

I've always wondered why Twickenham has green seats.

IMO it's the best stadium in the UK and the best rugby stadium in the world. It's fantastic when the All Blacks give England a hiding at home, we haven't lost there since 2002.

IMO it's the best stadium in the UK and the best rugby stadium in the world. It's fantastic when the All Blacks give England a hiding at home, we haven't lost there since 2002.

I agree with your first sentence, but not the second:lol:. My only gripe with Twickenham is the large space between the stands and the pitch; it'll be interesting to know if it would be possible to add more seating in the said space in the future.

Im pretty sure it has green seats because the land used to be acres of cabbage patches, so i think its just a historical reminder of what Twickenham used to be.

I agree with your first sentence, but not the second:lol:. My only gripe with Twickenham is the large space between the stands and the pitch; it'll be interesting to know if it would be possible to add more seating in the said space in the future.
The space between the seats and the pitch helps to improve sight lines. If you move the stand closer to the action by additional rows of seats you create blind corners on the far end of the touchline in front of the stand.

There is another issue with additional seats. They would either be uncovered or an expensive roof extension had to be made.

The space between the seats and the pitch helps to improve sight lines. If you move the stand closer to the action by additional rows of seats you create blind corners on the far end of the touchline in front of the stand..

Only if you move them to within about two feet of the pitch.

The front rows are not raised up a couple of metres in the air like at US stadiums, so you can get a lot closer without it impacting sightlines at all.

Many ground in the UK are like that, and there are no blind corners.

Only if you move them to within about two feet of the pitch.

The front rows are not raised up a couple of metres in the air like at US stadiums, so you can get a lot closer without it impacting sightlines at all.

Many ground in the UK are like that, and there are no blind corners.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3410/3304109704_fb1974a530.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29423584@N08/3304109704/)
1474-White Hart Lane (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29423584@N08/3304109704/) von flierfy (http://www.flickr.com/people/29423584@N08/) auf Flickr
Can you see the corner flag on the left side? I can't. And that's because the stand is straight and close to the pitch. You can't be close and see the whole pitch. In Twickenham designers have opted for improved sightlines. Elsewhere they didn't.

Can you see the corner flag on the left side? I can't. And that's because the stand is straight and close to the pitch. You can't be close and see the whole pitch. In Twickenham designers have opted for improved sightlines. Elsewhere they didn't.

That area used to be a terrace. As a terrace the front rows used to be below pitch level (so when you stood at the front your eyeline would be perhaps a metre high and your feet below the pitch)

It looks like the terrace was reprofiled when converted to seats, raising the area higher than before. If everyone was sat down, you'd probably be more or less OK, but it doesn't work when people stand. The sightlines would be wrong, which is price you pay for converting terraces to seats.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3410/3304109704_fb1974a530.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29423584@N08/3304109704/)
1474-White Hart Lane (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29423584@N08/3304109704/) von flierfy (http://www.flickr.com/people/29423584@N08/) auf Flickr
Can you see the corner flag on the left side? I can't. And that's because the stand is straight and close to the pitch. You can't be close and see the whole pitch. In Twickenham designers have opted for improved sightlines. Elsewhere they didn't.

You get that at the emirates lower tier too, and the emirates has its seats set back from the pitch.

You get that at the emirates lower tier too, and the emirates has its seats set back from the pitch.

The Emirates lower tier is truly shocking though, for a new stadium. It is more shallow than terraces used to be, and offers crap views as a result. I think both times I've been there I've sat about 20 rows back

Mind you, looking at this pic, I'd have to ask if you are perhaps below average height (or just have a very poor seat)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v665/RichardL1969/0703030090.jpg

If you look at the stewards standing at the front, it does look like you ought to be able to see over the heads to the corner.


Part of the problem is that some grounds are designed with the assumption that everyone will be sat down, and that's not the case. They put a 2nd tier on the away end at Anfield, and from the back rows you can't see the pitch at all if you stand up.


Design a ground well, and you won't have problems. It may not win too many votes in the classic ground stakes, but my club's stadium shows you can have seats near the pitch, without obstructing the pitch - even if people stand.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v665/RichardL1969/0604010012.jpg


Of course a large stadium will need to have a relatively shallow lower tier, but it should still be possible to get much nearer the touchline - and still offer clear views - than at Twickenham.

The Emirates lower tier is truly shocking though, for a new stadium. It is more shallow than terraces used to be, and offers crap views as a result. I think both times I've been there I've sat about 20 rows back.

Mind you, looking at this pic, I'd have to ask if you are perhaps below average height (or just have a very poor seat)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v665/RichardL1969/0703030090.jpg

If you look at the stewards standing at the front, it does look like you ought to be able to see over the heads to the corner.

Below average height for basketball player maybe but I'm 1.78m/ 5'10".

Last time I went (2 years ago now) I was on the side roughly halfway between the penalty area and the halfway line about three quarters of the way up the stand. Whenever the ball went to the other end of the pitch I had to basically stand up which isn't a problem if that's all you're doing, but you end up going up and down constantly.


Part of the problem is that some grounds are designed with the assumption that everyone will be sat down, and that's not the case. They put a 2nd tier on the away end at Anfield, and from the back rows you can't see the pitch at all if you stand up.




The emirates was designed with the middle tier, and the middle tier only in mind.

Design a ground well, and you won't have problems. It may not win too many votes in the classic ground stakes, but my club's stadium shows you can have seats near the pitch, without obstructing the pitch - even if people stand.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v665/RichardL1969/0604010012.jpg


Of course a large stadium will need to have a relatively shallow lower tier, but it should still be possible to get much nearer the touchline - and still offer clear views - than at Twickenham.I think this is the problem it's whether you want to compromise beauty for functionality or not.

The space between the seats and the pitch helps to improve sight lines. If you move the stand closer to the action by additional rows of seats you create blind corners on the far end of the touchline in front of the stand.

There is another issue with additional seats. They would either be uncovered or an expensive roof extension had to be made.

Only if you move them to within about two feet of the pitch.The front rows are not raised up a couple of metres in the air like at US stadiums, so you can get a lot closer without it impacting sightlines at all.

Many ground in the UK are like that, and there are no blind corners.

I thought that as well. Surely, considering the sizable gap between the lower bowl and pitch, there is enough room for a few more rows of seating that wouldn't hinder any views at the ground. Perhaps the pitch could be raised slightly above the last first-tier row of seats as well to improve views, similar to Old Trafford. Obviously, as pointed out by 'flierfy', the roof would have to be extended if this were to ever happen, though.

Definitely an interesting topic. Any future expansion would compliment this historical ground's majesty.

i would love to see twickenham expanded but only if its reasonably cheap and quick ie less than a year. any one geuss how much capicity would rise too if say there was an extra 5-10 rows of seats

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1c/Twickenham_Stadium_Aerial.JPG/800px-Twickenham_Stadium_Aerial.JPG


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/01/Stade_de_Twickenham_%C3%A0_Londres.jpg/800px-Stade_de_Twickenham_%C3%A0_Londres.jpg

The space between the seats and the pitch helps to improve sight lines. If you move the stand closer to the action by additional rows of seats you create blind corners on the far end of the touchline in front of the stand.
thats not true. the c-value for the person directly in front of you is the same for the c-value for the guy in front and 20 metres to the side.

Twickenham doesnt have that big a gap between the pitch and the seating. The reason for it is because the Rugby Governing body changes the pitch size restrictions every now and again for some reason, so why add more seats when they'll be "eaten away". Look at Hearts FC, Tynecastle used to have 20,000 seats and then the Football Association widen the pitch restrictions and they not have 17,000. Don't fix it if its not broken, Twickenham is as big as its going to get, they wont add anymore seats, ican bet on it.

Below average height for basketball player maybe but I'm 1.78m/ 5'10".

Last time I went (2 years ago now) I was on the side roughly halfway between the penalty area and the halfway line about three quarters of the way up the stand. Whenever the ball went to the other end of the pitch I had to basically stand up which isn't a problem if that's all you're doing, but you end up going up and down constantly.



The emirates was designed with the middle tier, and the middle tier only in mind.

I think this is the problem it's whether you want to compromise beauty for functionality or not.

If the lower tier at the Emirates looked just a bit more like this:
http://www.stiftland-groundhopper.de/nonground/100417%20tivoli%20aachen/CIMG0860.JPG
(source:http://www.stiftland-groundhopper.de/nonground/100417%20tivoli%20aachen/nonground.htm)

There certainly wouldn't be any of those kind of sightline problems.
And not a single person on the lower tier would end up having to stand up and sit back down again constantly.
And the stands could then also be much closer to the pitch, without generating any sightline issues.

Twickenham doesnt have that big a gap between the pitch and the seating. The reason for it is because the Rugby Governing body changes the pitch size restrictions every now and again for some reason, so why add more seats when they'll be "eaten away". Look at Hearts FC, Tynecastle used to have 20,000 seats and then the Football Association widen the pitch restrictions and they not have 17,000. Don't fix it if its not broken, Twickenham is as big as its going to get, they wont add anymore seats, ican bet on it.

What are you on about? :dunno:

i would love to see twickenham expanded but only if its reasonably cheap and quick ie less than a year. any one geuss how much capicity would rise too if say there was an extra 5-10 rows of seats

By looking at how high the seat numbers go on Ticketmaster, allowing for the large gaps in all four corners, I estimate that each row would have about 800 seats, so that's 4,000-8,000 extra seats. Not that you would manage to squeeze 10 rows in - maybe 6 at best...

If the lower tier at the Emirates looked just a bit more like this:
http://www.stiftland-groundhopper.de/nonground/100417%20tivoli%20aachen/CIMG0860.JPG
(source:http://www.stiftland-groundhopper.de/nonground/100417%20tivoli%20aachen/nonground.htm)

There certainly wouldn't be any of those kind of sightline problems.
And not a single person on the lower tier would end up having to stand up and sit back down again constantly.
And the stands could then also be much closer to the pitch, without generating any sightline issues.

if the bottom tier was that angle,how steep would the top tier need to be?

if the bottom tier was that angle,how steep would the top tier need to be?

Of course it's a much smaller single tier stadium and such a rake most certainly wouldn't be the optimum for a larger three tiered stadium like the Emirates or the Twickenham Stadium.
But the lower tier of the Emirates is not only awfully far away from the pitch, it's also awfully shallow. The large distance between the sidelines and the stands is bad for any of the seats because it increases the vieweing distances. Such a shallow rake of a lower tier is only good for the seats in the second tier and especially those seats with the bad views very high up in the rear, because then those aren't quite as high up as they were otherwise, if the lower tier was steeper.
But a shallow lower tier surely doesn't help improve the stadium atmosphere.

The Allianz Arena very reasonably demonstrates how much closer and how much more intimate than the Emirates Wembley or twickenham stadium a modern stadium of a simmilar capacity can easily be, without any need to worry about safety or anything.
And even the Allianz Arena, as good as it is, clearly also isn't quite the achievable optimum in terms of intimacy yet.

i would love to see twickenham expanded but only if its reasonably cheap and quick ie less than a year. any one geuss how much capicity would rise too if say there was an extra 5-10 rows of seats

The stadium bowl has only recently been completed. The whole thing took about twenty years since first starting work on the north stand. So I don't see them trying to increase capacity any time soon!

The only improvements we might get in the next 5-10 years are to corporate areas and, possibly, to a facelift of the exterior (south stand excepted) - which is undeniably hideous!

Of course it's a much smaller single tier stadium and such a rake most certainly wouldn't be the optimum for a larger three tiered stadium like the Emirates or the Twickenham Stadium.
But the lower tier of the Emirates is not only awfully far away from the pitch, it's also awfully shallow. The large distance between the sidelines and the stands is bad for any of the seats because it increases the vieweing distances. Such a shallow rake of a lower tier is only good for the seats in the second tier and especially those seats with the bad views very high up in the rear, because then those aren't quite as high up as they were otherwise, if the lower tier was steeper.
But a shallow lower tier surely doesn't help improve the stadium atmosphere.

The Allianz Arena very reasonably demonstrates how much closer and how much more intimate than the Emirates Wembley or twickenham stadium a modern stadium of a simmilar capacity can easily be, without any need to worry about safety or anything.
And even the Allianz Arena, as good as it is, clearly also isn't quite the achievable optimum in terms of intimacy yet.


But the Emirates had to be built to pacify the local council,plus,Wenger wanted a low roof to allow sunlight onto the pitch,so they could have a playing surface as good as the one at Highbury.All of this had an effect on the design of the staduim.

The stadium bowl has only recently been completed. The whole thing took about twenty years since first starting work on the north stand. So I don't see them trying to increase capacity any time soon!

The only improvements we might get in the next 5-10 years are to corporate areas and, possibly, to a facelift of the exterior (south stand excepted) - which is undeniably hideous!

yer it does look pretty horrible on the outside i will give you that, for some reason now it feels more special going twikers than wembley you get a special feeling there that just don't get at the wembley.

and i doubt they would lower the pitch to add more seats in the cost would be pretty expensive for what 5-7 internationals a year, a wc every 20 years and the odd heinekan cup final doesn't seem worth it unless capacity woudl go up like 10-20k which i don't think is possible

Read it again!

Big and ugly, like the rugby players :lol:

Ugly stadium for stupid sport.

...

You get that at the emirates lower tier too, and the emirates has its seats set back from the pitch.

EH ? No you dont. I sit roughly by the corner flag ( block 13 ) and towards the back and have a perfect view of the entire pitch.