^^ I've seen programmes like that too. I think the "blowing up" technique is very expensive so is only really used on high rise tower blocks where mechanical jaws can't reach. It must be a lot cheaper to hire a digger with a mouth on it than to employ a team of demolition 'experts' and their explosives to destroy it.Yes, I think they'd have to evacuate all the nearby buildings as well, just to be on the safe side, so it would be a bit of a palaver.

Thanks for all the photos by the way, Gherkin. Much appreciated :)

I don't know what the blue machine is, but it's making really short work of poor Brunswick.

http://i40.tinypic.com/dy3pes.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/amb42b.jpg


They left the gate open so I took the invitation and had a wander inside the site :D

http://i40.tinypic.com/30aam40.jpg

more of the same really, rubble and very masculine looking machinery everywhere...

Won't be in Leeds for a while so here's the current state of the building from Hepworth: Not much has really changed from the views above over the weekend.


http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt118/awaren8/DSC00737.jpg

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww97/immundaleodis/Image001.jpg

No Plans of what the Arena may look like yet then :(

How many parking spaces will the arena have?

How many parking spaces will the arena have?

Parking for the arena is largely expected to be met by Woodhouse Lane car park (which is usually empty in the evenings). As you'd expect with a modern development, there's an emphasis on sustainability and avoiding reliance on cars.

Hopefully Leeds' relatively good national transport links (particularly to York and Manchester), will help reduce the amount of people accessing the arena by car.

Parking for the arena is largely expected to be met by Woodhouse Lane car park (which is usually empty in the evenings). As you'd expect with a modern development, there's an emphasis on sustainability and avoiding reliance on cars.

Am I the only one who thinks that an arena with an emphasis on sustainability and avoiding reliance on cars is almost doomed to failure?

Am I the only one who thinks that an arena with an emphasis on sustainability and avoiding reliance on cars is almost doomed to failure?

My guess is that a central location with maybe limited parking rather than an out-of-town location with unlimited parking will be a net benefit to Leeds.

There will be no car park on site, but there are plenty of car parks dotted around the city, the nearest being Woodhouse Lane (massive) and the new Rose Bowl. By the time this is completed there will also be the large new quarry hill car park, and you never know Eastgate may have commenced construction.

The idea I believe is not to have a very contained arena where people arrive and leave without even setting foot in the city, it will encourage people to use the city at night and give it some life. Things such as the train station and car parks being located in a different part of Leeds should allow this to happen.

There will be no car park on site, but there are plenty of car parks dotted around the city, the nearest being Woodhouse Lane (massive) and the new Rose Bowl. By the time this is completed there will also be the large new quarry hill car park, and you never know Eastgate may have commenced construction.

The idea I believe is not to have a very contained arena where people arrive and leave without even setting foot in the city, it will encourage people to use the city at night and give it some life. Things such as the train station and car parks being located in a different part of Leeds should allow this to happen.


That's sound common sense and, I think, it's one reason why the city council went with this site, to maximise the spending potential of the arena's customers.

Am I the only one who thinks that an arena with an emphasis on sustainability and avoiding reliance on cars is almost doomed to failure?

That's exactly what I was thinking.

The Arena in Sheffield has a massive on site carpark and an out of city centre location. Even so the traffic it can cause is terrible when events are held, I dread to think what effect that would have if the Arena was actually located in the city centre. The MEN Arena is also located bang next to Victoria train station whilst the Leeds arena is probably a good 10-15 minutes walk from Leeds train station.

Leeds desperately needs this facility but I have grave misgivings about the chosen site because of the parking and the potential traffic problems.

Well, as mentioned, there are already large car parks in the area. If it soon becomes obvious that there isn't enough car parking though, there's enough room in the area to build another car park I think.

That's exactly what I was thinking.

The Arena in Sheffield has a massive on site carpark and an out of city centre location. Even so the traffic it can cause is terrible when events are held, I dread to think what effect that would have if the Arena was actually located in the city centre. The MEN Arena is also located bang next to Victoria train station whilst the Leeds arena is probably a good 10-15 minutes walk from Leeds train station.

Leeds desperately needs this facility but I have grave misgivings about the chosen site because of the parking and the potential traffic problems.

You think a 10 minute walk from the station is offputting??? Thats stupid, people arn't that lazy that if there isn't a stop immediately next to the arena they won't take the train. Plus there's car parks all over Leeds city centre, again you don't need a car park right next to the arena, people have legs and the whole point of the arena in the city centre is that they do walk around thereby creating extra revenue for local bars and restaurants not just go to the arena. Leeds bus station is only another 10 mins walk in the other direction too, its so much easier for most people going to the arena if its in a central location, if it was on the edge of town then everybody would have to take the car so that would just create more traffic , hence why sheffield needs a car park next to it. Plus concerts happen in the evenings so by that time there will be significantly more available spaces to park in. There's nothing wrong with where the arena is, it would be much worse to have one on the edge of the city.

I agree that it sounds good in theory but in practice I'm not sure it will work quite as well as you hope. People are lazier than you think which is why retail parks and out of town shopping centres have become so popular, to the detriment of more attractive and sustainable city centre cores which crucially...do not have such a convenient car parking offering.

This debate is nonsense. As others have noted, there is plenty of parking across the city and, yes, people will walk from the station. I was dragged to see Madonna in concert at the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff a couple of years ago. There is, of course, no parking there and the place was packed.

The MEN Arena is also located bang next to Victoria train station whilst the Leeds arena is probably a good 10-15 minutes walk from Leeds train station.

Leeds desperately needs this facility but I have grave misgivings about the chosen site because of the parking and the potential traffic problems.

But Manchester Victoria serves very few areas. Most out-of-towners visiting the MEN by train would have to endure the epic 10-15 min hike from Piccadilly

120,000 people work in Leeds City Centre, a good wodge use cars to get there. By 6pm a great deal will have gone, leaving ample room across the city for arena-goers to park. When an even finishes, instead of everyone piling into their cars and trying to get out of the same car park, as at Sheffield mwhere traffic is "terrible", the drivers dissipate back to the thousands of car parking spaces within 5 mins or so of the arena

Fair points. We'll just have to see, I hope it all works out.

If getting to and from the station proved to be a big problem, surely shuttle buses could be put on for major events where a full house is expected. That is what has been done before for other major events that have needed a direct link from the station to a local venue.

^^ The free city bus could be run for longer when events are on. The problem with that though is that people will immediately exit the station, go straight to the arena, watch the concert etc and then go straight back to the station without walking around Leeds.
If they were left to their own devices they could either get a taxi or walk. If they walk it's likely they'll stop somewhere for a drink or something to eat. They'll be spending more money in Leeds, which is what we want isn't it?
The Nottingham Arena is a good 10 minutes walk from the station. There are plenty of car parks about 5 minutes walk away. The only noticeable congestion caused is by pedestrians around the arena as they walk into the city centre. Traffic is heavier as people leave the city but a lot of people stop off for a drink making the city centre busier and a more vibrant place to be.
If the arena was plonked out of town with no nearby amenities the road system would gring to a hault.

Am I the only one who thinks that an arena with an emphasis on sustainability and avoiding reliance on cars is almost doomed to failure?


My fear is that its the council that are in charge, and if things go wrong its tax payers money.
Why dont the council build schools and hospitals with this "cash" instead of all those PFIs?

E

My fear is that its the council that are in charge, and if things go wrong its tax payers money.
Why dont the council build schools and hospitals with this "cash" instead of all those PFIs?

E

Because you wouldn't get many schools for the money that's being spent on the arena and the building of hospitals is the responsibility of the NHS, not the local authority.

In any case, PFI is a government initiative that councils have no control over. So for the most part the choice is having a new school built through PFI or having no new school at all.

My fear is that its the council that are in charge, and if things go wrong its tax payers money.
Why dont the council build schools and hospitals with this "cash" instead of all those PFIs?

E

You should write to the YEP with your concerns and questions. They'd definitely print a letter like this

You should write to the YEP with your concerns and questions. They'd definitely print a letter like this

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

You should write to the YEP with your concerns and questions. They'd definitely print a letter like this



Would anyone like to answer the principle of why councils are getting involved in the provision of entertainment (how much sport?).
I can see why a private company would want to build an arena if it is going to make a profit, but why is LCC doing it all on its own?
Give me a few more arguments, and I might just write that letter, lol.

E

Would anyone like to answer the principle of why councils are getting involved in the provision of entertainment (how much sport?).
I can see why a private company would want to build an arena if it is going to make a profit, but why is LCC doing it all on its own?
Give me a few more arguments, and I might just write that letter, lol.

E

UK arenas don't make enough operating profit to cover the cost of the debt repayments on the capital investment. That's why every UK arena constructed so far has had a large public subsidy. That's why the Council has had to take the lead in this case. You'd be waiting a long time if you wanted to wait for the private sector to build one of its own volition.

That's why every UK arena constructed so far has had a large public subsidy.



I know that council/government build museums etc for "entertainment", the BBC do public information programs.
But my earlier point was about government/councils providing health and education, but not entertainment.
If there is money to be made selling alcohol and building pubs, perhaps LCC could provide my entertainment on some Friday nights?

E

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3325/3584688513_c9df04b201_b.jpg



http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3337/3584695891_da3c65b573_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3337/3584695891_da3c65b573_b.jpg

Nice photo, makes Opal and Tower north look really tall. Plus the Leeds met looks like some sort of ruin from the war rather than a building being demolished.

...Why dont the council build schools and hospitals with this "cash" instead of all those PFIs?

E

Hi El Cid, fair question, PFIs are an expensive debt to local authorities and it would be good to avoid them.

However, it is quite simply because they don't have that kind of cash to spend, they may have a few tens of millions a year to go round all the numerous capital projects, but schools (hospitals are not provided by the council) need hundreds of millions to fund each major replacement scheme. The government won't give them that kind of money, but do allow them to take out the PFI loans. Even replacing the street lighting is costing £90m, and there's no way the council afford that so it also had to be financed with a PFI loan.

and there's no way the council afford that so it also had to be financed with a PFI loan.



I guess this is getting beyond the topic of architecture, but isnt that why we are in this mess, all this debt.

Clearly it would be crazy for anyone to borrow money to renew their lighting, but that is what our Council/Government are doing.

But yet they have little pot of cash for a entertainment venue; and by the way, no-one has answered, the question of sport.
Is the arena soley for entertainment?

E

El Cid,
The matter isnt as black and white as it seems. Yes the council are funding the arena, but not entirely, and once it is built the benefit to the Leeds economy as a whole will far outway the cost of the arena, therefore making it hugely beneficial to the city!
We dont know for defintae whether it is going to have sport as well as entertainment, although sport is entertainment, but i doubt they would be able to make it viable if they didnt host some sport there as there are no other facilities for it in the city.

I guess this is getting beyond the topic of architecture, but isnt that why we are in this mess, all this debt.

Clearly it would be crazy for anyone to borrow money to renew their lighting, but that is what our Council/Government are doing.


It does leave us in a lot of debt, but at the end of the day money does need to be spent on facilities; schools need replacing, lighting needs replacing, things don't last forever and need renewing from time to time.


But yet they have little pot of cash for a entertainment venue; and by the way, no-one has answered, the question of sport.
Is the arena soley for entertainment?


The amount the council are contributing towards the arena is minimal, and is coming out of some of the money gained from selling off the airport. It is in their interest to do so not just because of the arena's business success, but because it is a facility that the whole city desperately needs. Not everyone in Leeds will visit the arena, but we all need it to improve the status, reputation and therefore commercial viability of Leeds as a whole, and the council will most likely make the money back from the increased commercial success generating increased business rates.

This debate is nonsense. As others have noted, there is plenty of parking across the city and, yes, people will walk from the station.

Totally agree. The city centre somehow manages to accommodate 120,000 employees during the day, as well as all the shoppers. I'm sure we can find space for 12,000 in the evening.

It does leave us in a lot of debt, but at the end of the day money does need to be spent on facilities; schools need replacing, lighting needs replacing, things don't last forever and need renewing from time to time.

I think thats such a selfish attitude that supports PFI, burdening future generations with massive debt to fund this generations schools, hospitals, even lighting replacement!!:bash:

PFI means that the government and consequently us, as taxpayers, end up paying many, many times more for a project to be delivered than we would have done if the government had just borrowed the money in the first place and built the thing itself. What about that PFI funded £6.2 billion widening of the M25 motorway which The Campaign for Better Transport had calculated could have been created for £478m?

On the issue of sport, the answer is that the arena will definitely allow for sports, although it will primarily focus on stage-based entertainment. This was an extract from a YEP webchat with the council's head of recreation earlier in the year.

Can you confirm that the design will be "super-theatre" which seems concert-friendly rather than sports-friendly. Can you give an idea of what sports, if any, might be played there.
12:11 Good question. The UK arena market is dominated by popular music end stage entertainment. On that basis it's a case of form following function and creating an environment that optimises site lines and customer experience for this type of activity. That said, the facility will accommodate sports, Basketball, Tennis, boxing as well as ice shows. Importantly, seats will focus on the stage, not the centre of a sports court like a horse shoe configuration

I think thats such a selfish attitude that supports PFI, burdening future generations with massive debt to fund this generations schools, hospitals, even lighting replacement!!:bash:

PFI means that the government and consequently us, as taxpayers, end up paying many, many times more for a project to be delivered than we would have done if the government had just borrowed the money in the first place and built the thing itself. What about that PFI funded £6.2 billion widening of the M25 motorway which The Campaign for Better Transport had calculated could have been created for £478m?

All this brings me back to my old hobbyhorse about local government.
1. They should be allowed to keep at least some of the Business Rate.
2. Councils should serve four year terms and then ALL have to come up for re-election at the same time, thus providing an opportunity for replacing them on whatever issues were uppermost at the time.
3. Councils should be allowed to make their own decisions on planning without reference to central government.
In my opinion not only would this empower local authorities but would help to re-engage electors with the democratic process.
Agitate now for reform.

Well yeah...but completely reform the PFI system too. The private sector has run rings round incompetent government officials, deperate to secure private funding for all those shiny new schools, hospitals etc that Blair liked to boast about so much. What he didn't tell us that we will still be tied into contracts and paying them off and for up to 70 years in some cases.

Well yeah...but completely reform the PFI system too. The private sector has run rings round incompetent government officials, deperate to secure private funding for all those shiny new schools, hospitals etc that Blair liked to boast about so much. What he didn't tell us that we will still be tied into contracts and paying them off and for up to 70 years in some cases.

I'm not sure the private sector "ran rings" around the government. I'm sure they government was well aware what was happening and only too happy for it to happen.

Yes of course they wanted it to happen but some of the agreements they entered into beggars belief.

For example around £823 million (at 2007 prices) is still to be paid in rent up to the end of the contract in 2037 for the Norfolk and Norwich University Hospital (NNUH). The basic construction cost in the 1990s, was £159 million. If this contact was to be bought out by the government now it could save taxpayers £217 million pounds. Enough to build another hospital.

Yes of course they wanted it to happen but some of the agreements they entered into beggars belief.

I'm sure the government minsters responsible for those agreements did very well out of it.

I'm sure the government minsters responsible for those agreements did very well out of it.

Quite. While the media drags out the debate on our dodgy MPs by focusing on £5 church collection contributions and the like, there doesn't seem to be too much focus on my main concern of how much the decisions which affect our day-to-day lives have been "influenced". We're talking untold billions sloshing around and the likes of Mandelson signing the cheques.

Yes of course they wanted it to happen but some of the agreements they entered into beggars belief.

For example around £823 million (at 2007 prices) is still to be paid in rent up to the end of the contract in 2037 for the Norfolk and Norwich University Hospital (NNUH). The basic construction cost in the 1990s, was £159 million. If this contact was to be bought out by the government now it could save taxpayers £217 million pounds. Enough to build another hospital.

PFI is like any other form of procurement. If you don't do your homework before you sign up you get stung. Yes, there are PFI contracts which have gone wrong, and that's mainly because of incompetence when the specifications were put together. In Leeds we have some good examples - street lighting being one. Don't forget that PFI isn't just about the cost of construction. It's about maintenance over 25 or more years so that at the end of the contract, when the facilities are passed back to the public sector to keep, they are in the same condition as on day one. How many public facilities funded in the traditional manner can you say are in the same condition after 25 years? That's why PFI appears to be expensive, but in actual fact, the public sector annual payment just reflects the fact that the facilities are being maintained to a very high standard, and if they're not then then annual payment to the PFI consortium is reduced by reference to a formula set down in the contract.

On another tack, PFI consortia are not paid one penny until the facility is signed off as fit for purpose by an independent assessor and then passed to the public sector for occupation. Consequently (and amazingly) PFI consortia almost always deliver to time or ahead of time, and to quality. I think you'll find with traditional procurement that almost all major construction projects are delivered late and are often accompanied by sizeable financial claims from the contractor for delays due to inclement weather, ground abnormals, etc. etc. They are unable to claim for any additional payments of this type under PFI.

Hi

Quote .. "The Director of City Development approved the appointment of Ove Arup and Partners LLP to act as Planning Agent for the proposed arena development."

From Leeds City Council.

Still no renders for this yet?!?

found this: http://www.smg-europe.com/venue-profile.php?iVenuesId=17

but judging by the text it's not up to date... and frankly I'm not expecting a better design than that small picture.

I've forgotten the architects, I'd love Carey Jones to design it!

found this: http://www.smg-europe.com/venue-profile.php?iVenuesId=17

but judging by the text it's not up to date... and frankly I'm not expecting a better design than that small picture.

I've forgotten the architects, I'd love Carey Jones to design it!

Nice find, Gherkin. It's almost certainly going to look very different but it's good to see at least one render associated with it.

http://www.smg-europe.com/uploads/venues/image1/1212769738_Leeds%20Arena%20200x200.jpg

And a bit more news on the funding for the arena, from today's YEP:


Funding boost for Leeds Arena bid

Published Date: 09 June 2009

By Debbie Leigh

Leeds Arena is a step closer to reality after Yorkshire Forward agreed to part-fund the multi-million pound project. Leeds City Council had been confident the regional development agency would provide the extra cash needed for the scheme but some MPs in Sheffield have argued it should not pump public funds into a project they fear could damage trade at their city's existing arena.

Now after a consultancy firm assessed proposals for the 12,500-seater facility in Leeds city centre, Yorkshire Forward has pledged to help create the venue at Clay Pit Lane – as long as the Government gives the cash injection the green light.

The arena, run by major international operator SMG, is expected to create 300 jobs and generate nearly £30m a year for the local economy.

Yorkshire Forward Chief Executive Tom Riordan said: "Following extensive, independent evaluation I'm pleased to confirm that Yorkshire Forward's Board has confirmed its decision to invest in the development of a Leeds Arena.

"The proposal will now be submitted to Central Government for funding approval."

He said the Board had taken account of Sheffield's concerns and would include those representations in the case put to Government to approve the investment.

Leeds councillor Andrew Carter said he was "delighted" by the news.
He added: "It's what we hoped for. We are moving ahead with the project as rapidly as we can."

Demolition of the former Leeds Metropolitan University tower block which occupied part of the arena's five-acre Clay Pit Lane site started at the beginning of April.

So the intentions of Leeds Forward become all the more transparent. I don't have a problem with Leeds getting an arena, I think it's a long time due for a city of its size, but to have this organization pumping funding into such an entertainment and leisure project in Leeds, whilst being intent on demolishing a building which has the potential to deliver an equivalent venue for Leeds' close neighbour Bradford with no other plans in place just makes their intentions so obvious.

Remember I had to sit through a speech from this guy Tom Riordan when I graduated, himself being an honourary graduate as a doctor of letters, where he proclaimed among other things that the Westfield site was definitely happening and going ahead to which there were laughs in the audience.

And a bit more news on the funding for the arena, from today's YEP:

Leeds councillor Andrew Carter said he was "delighted" by the news.
He added: "It's what we hoped for. We are moving ahead with the project as rapidly as we can."

I can't agree more. It's great news. :)

Leeds hardly gets any public spending, its prosperity does it no favours when it comes to grants so this is good news.

So the intentions of Leeds Forward become all the more transparent. I don't have a problem with Leeds getting an arena, I think it's a long time due for a city of its size, but to have this organization pumping funding into such an entertainment and leisure project in Leeds, whilst being intent on demolishing a building which has the potential to deliver an equivalent venue for Leeds' close neighbour Bradford with no other plans in place just makes their intentions so obvious.

Remember I had to sit through a speech from this guy Tom Riordan when I graduated, himself being an honourary graduate as a doctor of letters, where he proclaimed among other things that the Westfield site was definitely happening and going ahead to which there were laughs in the audience.

Why would anybody fund an alternative nine miles away?

Leeds hardly gets any public spending, its prosperity does it no favours when it comes to grants so this is good news.

What prosperity ?

Why would anybody fund an alternative nine miles away?

It wouldn't be an alternative, having a capacity of about 3,000, a perfect match for a mid-size venue.

It wouldn't be an alternative, having a capacity of about 3,000, a perfect match for a mid-size venue.

How is that an 'equivalent venue'?

How much money had BCC commited to this project, how much was expected to be raised from the private sector and what revenue was it expected to bring in to Bradford? Basically, what were the terms of the funding and what reason did YF give for the knockback?

You can't just raise these vague objections without offering any specifics

What prosperity ?

Leeds is one of the UKs most prosperous major cities; much more so than Newcastle, Liverpool, Manchester or Sheffield in the north. Of course there are still swathes of deprivation in Leeds, mainly in the east and south, but because the figures are generally quite good for Leeds, the poorer areas are often overlooked with public money often going to South Yorkshire for example.

You could say that Leeds has done too well for its own good.

...and here's the continued ridiculous backlash from Sheffield.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/8091342.stm

How is that an 'equivalent venue'?

How much money had BCC commited to this project, how much was expected to be raised from the private sector and what revenue was it expected to bring in to Bradford? Basically, what were the terms of the funding and what reason did YF give for the knockback?

You can't just raise these vague objections without offering any specifics

I mean the equivalent for Bradford in regards to its size and scale and entertainment offer, obviously Bradford can't hope to get an arena but it could try for a decent mid size venue to spread audiences between the two cities.

The question of money from Bradford City Council is not an issue given they seem deeply opposed to any attempt at an entertainment and leisure venue, or rather it is an issue because they and Yorkshire Forward who own the building in question keep blocking it. It's very much a people vs. the council issue, with the council refusing to given the Bradford public anything they actually want and have said they want. The thread for the building and proposals in question:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=720360

There's a lot to go over in regards to this saga but it is quite a major issue in the city.

At present there is a planning application to demolish The Odeon Building and replace it with a scheme called New Victoria Place. This has had many objections raised about it, and last we heard they were planning on changing the design (possibly as a measure to rid the project of objection letters, very clever and ruthless). As an alternative the main objectors to the demolition, campaign group BORG, have proposed their own development, a restoration and extension with alterations to the existing building, they also have a buyer in Nirmal Singh who has an offer of £3m on the building, along with an interested club operator, and with other interested parties in negotiations. Not bad for what was initially just a protest group.

BCR have made claims that it would be economically unviable in the past and that when they looked for interested investors, no one planned a use as a concert venue. Part of the reason for this though could be the fact the site was marketed to potential investors as a site rather than a building, a foregoing conclusion for what was intended for the building. On top of this, Yorkshire Forward's Jan Anderson and the leader of Bradford Council, Kris Hopkins said at a regeneration meeting that they would gladly sell the Odeon Building if there was an interested buyer, when it turned out there was from the BORG scheme, they claimed their comments had been misquoted. I saw them say it live, their meaning couldn't have been any clearer.

The only idea for a concert venue in the city is a doubling of St. Georges Hall, extending into the adjacent building, but such a plan would doubtlessly involve the wrecking of a fine Victorian interior, the plan for this has also strangely dissapeared or gone quiet as well, but it did involve the Editor of the Telegraph & Argus having a say as a member of a board which proposal for a concert venue should go forward, having something to do with a £4m sale of the Telegraph & Argus building which is adjacent, thus the T&A constant approval of everything the now defunct BCR ever say or do.

As a concert venue alongside other leisure and entertainment offers, it would have the catchment area of West & North Yorkshire, possibly further, providing the mid sized concert venue that the area does not have. At present there are many hotels planned for the city, yet there seems no offer of an attraction for any visitors. St. Georges Hall at 1,500 is the largest capacity venue there is in the city, followed by the Alhambra which is of course a theatre. After that the next biggest venue is probably the Gasworks.

My problem isn't with Leeds or indeed The Arena, I wouldn't mind having an arena in close proximity, but I'd also prefer not having to travel to Manchester ever time for the smaller gigs. My problem is with the attitude of Yorkshire Forward, specifically in regards to provision of venues and concert space. I think it should take the multilateral approach of aiding the provision of this in both cities to a degree to which both cities can manage. If it inevitably means a somewhat smaller capacity in the venue then so be it, just not the demolition of a classic Art Deco building with so much potential to be replaced by an anytown anywhere scheme of flats, offices, a hotel and a few bars or restaurants.

Well it is good news to see Yorkshire Forward agree to fund the Leeds Arena. Is this funding definately confirmed and how many more layers are there to get through until this arena can start construction? As for Yorkshire Forward is there any prospect of it being axed if the Conservatives win the next election (with YF's functions transferred to local authorities) which I could see happening which could affect the funding for the Leeds arena?

As for Bradford I agree with the conversion of the Odeon in Bradford into a concert venue (although surely the main issue with that is that unfortunately the council there are against that idea as wrong as it is) and in Sheffield surely their arena should be upgraded to allow it to compete better against the Leeds arena as opposed to spending all the time and money on just opposing the Leeds arena?

Well you would hope that a Conservative government would complement Leeds' Conservative (and LD I suppose) council.

Having said that, North Yorkshire County Council (who are also Conservative) appear to have very bad relations with Leeds City Council, and don't support the Leeds City Region project which of course is being largely driven/supported by Conservative leaders in Leeds. A big conflicting divide in the party that needs sorting out.

Well you would hope that a Conservative government would complement Leeds' Conservative (and LD I suppose) council.

Having said that, North Yorkshire County Council (who are also Conservative) appear to have very bad relations with Leeds City Council, and don't support the Leeds City Region project which of course is being largely driven/supported by Conservative leaders in Leeds. A big conflicting divide in the party that needs sorting out.

Its not actually a Party Divide..
Cllr's Anderson and Hyde where saying today that its to do with the fact that its seen as another level of bureaucracy rather than taking power to the lowest levels.
Its one of those things that while we need to be heading in similar directions the LCR should have no power over Councils.

I would quite happily see county councils reduced to minimal functions (like waste disposal etc), with Leeds City Region taking all the major functions like transport, planning, some maintenance (of major routes like in Greater London) etc.

Whether it is another level of bureacracy or not is irrelevant- the bottom line is that it is clearly demonstrating that the councils can't work together.

I would quite happily see county councils reduced to minimal functions (like waste disposal etc), with Leeds City Region taking all the major functions like transport, planning, some maintenance (of major routes like in Greater London) etc.

Whether it is another level of bureacracy or not is irrelevant- the bottom line is that it is clearly demonstrating that the councils can't work together.

Im not saying that that is my view... im just saying its the view of some cllrs (Cross party, across the LCR).
My view would be to have a LCR elected mayor who has an executive.
the councils would have the same powers but the LCR Mayor would push the region forward and lease with the councils.

Sheffield has had an arena for 20 years and has served the region brilliantly. All we are doing is effectively doubly the regions capacity to stage major concerts/sports events.

If you had say Take That at Sheffield and Snow Patrol on at Leeds on the same weekend, then I am sure both would be sell outs. What you have got to remember is that when it comes to actually getting hold of tickets, how many actually get snapped up by the locals??? I bet that fan club members, foreign fans and all manner of non-locals get a large majority of the tickets. This brings a lot of business into the region. So by doubling capacity, this gives more choice for us Yorkshire folk, more chance to get tickets without having to go the MEN, GMEX or Echo arenas, and more revenue for local businesses. If the North West can comfortable accomodate 3 major venues, then I am sure Yorkshire can accomodate 2.

Yorkshire Forward made it quite clear on Look North last night that the whole region would benefit from this, not just Leeds. hence their investment.

More on the sources of the funding:


Leeds Arena: Agency's £18m for entertainment venue

Published Date: 10 June 2009

By Paul Robinson

Fresh details have emerged about the way council bosses in Leeds propose to pay for the city's new entertainment arena. As reported yesterday regional development agency Yorkshire Forward has agreed to part-fund the city council-run project.

The sum the Government-backed agency is ready to contribute to the £80m scheme was due to be kept secret – but today the YEP can reveal the amount involved is £18m.

The city council's initial commitment will also be £18m, some of which will come from the funds it received from the sale of Leeds Bradford Airport in 2007.

The remaining £43m or so needed for the project will be borrowed by the council using powers introduced by the Government to give local authorities more freedom to invest in major capital projects. That loan will be secured against the money that the 12,500-seater arena will make once it opens for business.

Crucial income streams will include cash from car parking and the annual rent which will be paid to the council by the facility's operator, music industry giant SMG.

The financial breakdown is contained in confidential sections of a new Yorkshire Forward report on the likely economic impact of the arena. It says the scheme will create more than 300 jobs and generate £2.80 for the regional economy for every pound invested by the public sector.

The site earmarked for the arena is on Clay Pit Lane, on the northern edge of Leeds city centre near the Merrion shopping complex. Demolition of a former Leeds Metropolitan University tower block on the five-acre site got under way in April.

If all goes according to plan, it is hoped the arena will be open by late 2012. One hurdle that must be cleared before then is for the Government to give the green light to Yorkshire Forward's proposed level of support for the scheme.

I think I saw the same piece on Look North as LS19. What was interesting for me was the source of the comments from Sheffield - one from the people running the Hallam Arena (needless to say they're pissed off at the thought of no longer having a monopoly in the region), and the rest from a load of people on the streets of Sheffield who, surprise, surprise, were anti.

Notably absent, though, was any comment from Sheffield City Council or from the protectionist MPs who've been complaining so loudly.

WEll, with dreary Hazel out of the way there may be hope.:banana:

Probably shouldn't complain about her too much considering she gave us and Manchester some devolved spending as part of the pilot project.

Here we are, playmates, the first real indication of what's going on the site (just don't expect any renders yet). Interestingly, after all the debate about whether the site would be large enough for the arena, it's now predicted that there will be enough land left over for a separate development to be pursued in the future.

Report here (http://democracy.leeds.gov.uk/Published/C00000173/M00003562/AI00020007/0900008preappLeedsArena.pdf).

Probably shouldn't complain about her too much considering she gave us and Manchester some devolved spending as part of the pilot project.

Yeah she also ensured the demolition of countless amounts of terraced housing back in Stoke-on-Trent as well as of course Salford. We seem to be just left with wastelands now where there used to be communities, the inferior replacements off out in planning land.

More on the sources of the funding:



I think I saw the same piece on Look North as LS19. What was interesting for me was the source of the comments from Sheffield - one from the people running the Hallam Arena (needless to say they're pissed off at the thought of no longer having a monopoly in the region), and the rest from a load of people on the streets of Sheffield who, surprise, surprise, were anti.

Notably absent, though, was any comment from Sheffield City Council or from the protectionist MPs who've been complaining so loudly.

oh yes they have http://www.sheffieldtelegraph.co.uk/news/Arena-row-based-on-a.5355700.jp

Did the arena at Nottingham open after the one in Sheffield and was there uproar about it , there is only about 7 or 8 miles difference between Leeds to Seffield and Notts to Sheffield .

I think both the Nottingham and Manchester arenas opened after the Sheffield one and they were both partially funded by public money

No bitching from Sheffield then though. Then again they weren't partially funded by YF

From the Sheffield Telegraph.

Arena row based on a real sense of injustice

Published Date: 11 June 2009
SHEFFIELD was never going to welcome the prospect of another indoor arena just up the road in Leeds.
So it was hardly surprising that the announcement that the 12,500-seat Leeds Arena is scheduled to open for business in 2012 drew a frosty response from the south of the county.

But - and this is a point that the Leeds officials interviewed on TV this week seem determined to ignore - this is not bleating about competition.It is about operating on a level playing field.

The anger has been building steadily since it was first revealed last October that regional development agency Yorkshire Forward was planning to invest heavily in the Leeds scheme.

Whatever the amount - and some estimates put it at around £18million - the fact remains that this is Government money which Yorkshire Forward is tasked with distributing for the benefit of the region as a whole.

When Sheffield Arena was built almost 20 years ago, there was no Government help and the cost of bringing the World Student Games to the city has been a thorny topic ever since.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of that decision, the bill for the Sheffield Arena was met by the taxpayers of this city.

If that was how the Leeds Arena was to be financed, Sheffield would doubtless roll up its sleeves and prepare to meet the challenge. That, after all, is business.

But with even the report commissioned by Yorkshire Forward into the likely impact concluding that Sheffield audience figures are likely to be reduced by 24 per cent, there is little wonder that there is deep disappointment and resentment here.

The issue now goes to the Government's Central Project Review Group for a final decision to be made.

We can only hope it raises the same valid questions which are rightly being posed so forcefully in Sheffield.

im sick of hearing about Sheffield's complaints. Its bloody miles away. I wish we werent in the same county, then they wouldnt have a thing to complain about. Anyway Sheffield arena is rubbish. A city the size of ours needs an arena. Sheffield are just bitter

Wow, I can't believe they are being such bad loosers about this. They really are undignifying themselves.

Most civic leaders promote Yorkshire together as a whole, but they are stooping down to going back to a divided 'them and us' mentality, if they want to do that I think they'll find they would loose out even more.

Their arguments don't even stand up, as Yorkshire Forward have hundreds of millions to invest across the whole region, and Leeds is entitled to at least our fair share of that, which easily covers the £18m.

I'd be interested to know how much public money from outside Sheffield went into their Supertram system. Alot more than £18 million I bet.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Sheffield get any public funding for Pond's Forge and the Student Games facilities which draw a lot of visitors into the city ?

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Sheffield get any public funding for Pond's Forge and the Student Games facilities which draw a lot of visitors into the city ?

It would appear not, see article below

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/3007319/New-sports-minister-was-a-fervent-supporter-of-Student-Games-which-left-Sheffield-with-25m-a-year-burden.html

Debt is expected to be paid back by 2050 at the current rate.

I think all of the other arena's built since then have had some sort of public funding

http://www.leeds.gov.uk/page.aspx?pageidentifier=dca34310-fdfb-42e9-beed-ee8709fbd850&pressReleaseId=3156
Leeds Arena project team strengthened with two new appointments

Progress on the Leeds Arena project has been strengthened with the announcement of two key appointments to the team charged with delivering the development.

Leeds City Council has appointed Davis Langdon LLP as quantity surveyor to provide cost management services, and Ove Arup and Partners Ltd as the external planning agent responsible for preparing and submitting an outline planning application.

The announcement comes just days after Yorkshire Forward agreed to invest in the project after publishing an economic appraisal report, which showed a Leeds Arena would be a huge boost to the Yorkshire economy.

The two new appointments will strengthen an already strong project team, which includes the Arena operator SMG, Jacobs building and technical design consultancy, and Populous (formerly HOK Sport Architecture), who are providing specialist architectural expertise for arena design.

They are now joined by Davis Langdon LLP, one of the world’s top cost and project management consultants, and Ove Arup and Partners Ltd - a global firm of designers, engineers, planners and business consultants. Davis Langdon has performed similar cost management roles on a number of key arena projects including: the O2 Dublin; the Echo Arena Liverpool; Odyssey Arena Belfast; the MEN Arena Manchester; Budapest Arena and the National Indoor Arena Birmingham. The appointment of Arup as planning agent will also ensure transparency between the council’s roles of local planning authority and the Leeds Arena developer.

Councillor Andrew Carter, joint leader of Leeds City Council and executive member with responsibility for the Arena project said:
“I am delighted to welcome Davis Langdon and Ove Arup to the Leeds Arena project. It’s another great step forward in the progress of the development and I am confident they will bring valuable expertise and experience to the team.”

Nigel Foster, director at Arup said:
“We are very pleased to be working with Leeds City Council, SMG and the wider team to help deliver this prestigious project. The arena will provide a fantastic new venue in the city adding to its wide cultural offer.”

Martin Jennings, partner leading the Davis Langdon project team said:
"We are very excited to be part of the team that will successfully deliver this transformational project for Leeds, which will be a superb entertainment focussed venue in the heart of the city."

Ends
Notes to editors:
1. SMG Europe was appointed as the preferred operator for the arena in May 2008. SMG is the largest operator of sports and entertainment venues in Europe, including Manchester Evening News Arena and Bridgewater Hall, the Odyssey Arena, Belfast, and Oslo Spektrum. SMG has considerable industry knowledge and has largely defined the optimum internal design of the arena.

2. Leeds City Council appointed its strategic design partner, Jacobs, to take on the role of developing the design for the venue in April this year. Subsequently, Jacobs appointed Populous to provide the design team with the specialist architectural expertise for the arena
design. Populous have a track record of delivering high profile and complex development including Wembley and the Arsenal Emirates stadiums, the O2 arenas in London, Dublin and Berlin, and Wimbledon Centre Court.

3. On 5 November 2008 Executive Board agreed to approve Clay Pit Lane as the preferred site for the development of a 12,500 seat multi purpose arena for the city. Since that time the design team has been engaged in preliminary, though detailed, work with a view to submitting an outline planning application in October 2009.

ENDS

For media enquiries, please contact;
Sara Hyman, Leeds City Council press office (0113) 224 3937
Email: sara.hymanr@leeds.gov.uk

oh yes they have http://www.sheffieldtelegraph.co.uk/news/Arena-row-based-on-a.5355700.jp


Woohoo, so they have!

Their arguments are all over the place, though. You really cannot argue that, just because regional development agencies weren't around when the Sheffield arena was built, then RDA funding should go into the Leeds one. Nor is there any mileage in getting hot under the collar about the fact that the same consultancy has produced the two reports and, contrary to what Mr Betts said in the news report, the consultants didn't "support" a Leeds arena. They reported to the city council and Yorkshire Forward that an arena in Leeds would be able to pull in an audience big enough to make it sustainable. They would have received the same fee if their report had come to the opposite conclusion. Given their involvement in the producing the original report, it makes sense for them to have been asked to produce this follow-up.

If I were in the shoes of Sheffield leaders, I'd be focusing on the impact of two arenas in the region and on what Sheffield can do to mitigate the 24% drop in attendance. One option is to approach Yorkshire Forward for funding to update the Hallam Arena which must be feeling its age by now.

on that link it says 'Beyonce coming to Sheffield Arena'. Cant wait until it says 'Beyonce coming to Leeds Arena' haha

Err no...she can stick to Sheffield please. I wan't bands like U2 and Simple Minds

Err no...she can stick to Sheffield please. I wan't bands like U2 and Simple Minds

ha simple minds? they still going? i cant stand U2.. can never understand why they are considered a big band. If Beyonce comes she might attract Jay Z

Muse at Leeds is what I want to see.

I don't mind U2 but they're hardly on the same level as Beyoncé.

That last comment is worrying,you'll get Beyonce to play Leeds no problem but unless they're playing Round Hay(?) U2 might prove to be a little more difficult,St Bono's only in it for the money,they'll choose the MEN every time.

That last comment is worrying,you'll get Beyonce to play Leeds no problem but unless they're playing Round Hay(?) U2 might prove to be a little more difficult,St Bono's only in it for the money,they'll choose the MEN every time.

Roundhay holds like 70,000+ though.

M.E.N only holds like 19,000 for concerts, only a mere 6,500 more than the proposed Leeds Arena.

U2 at Roundhay Park would be pretty special though.

Roundhay holds like 70,000+ though.

M.E.N only holds like 19,000 for concerts, only a mere 6,500 more than the proposed Leeds Arena.

U2 at Roundhay Park would be pretty special though.

I don't want U2 to ever be in my city! Bono is an idiot!

U2 have played Roundhay Park before.

What's the difference between Bono and God?

God doesn't think he's Bono

U2 have played Roundhay Park before.
Oh aye in 1997, forgot about that.

I went to that gig,the stage show was amazing,that's my only gig I've ever been to in Leeds.I can't be bothered travelling anywhere these days,I used to go everywhere but I've seen almost everyone I'm interested in seeing now so I can't get motivated anymore.

Oh aye in 1997, forgot about that.

And '93, plus Elland Rd in the 80s and smaller gigs at the uni and whatnot. Not that I'm a fan, they're a poor man's Simple Minds

Roundhay Park should be used more. I know the locals bitch about gigs there, but tough shit. Why weren't Take That courted by the council to bring their Summer tour here? Springsteen's doing a few outdoor shows, why didn't anyone invite him back to Roundhay?

I don't see why it shouldn't be used once or twice every summer

U2 are playing Sheffield this summer for those who like that kind of thing.

clicky (http://www.u2boxoffice.com/book_tickets.html)

Interesting list of venues - Nou Camp - Barcelona, San Siro - Milan, Stade De France - Paris, Amsterdam Arena, Croke Park - Dublin, Wembley, Hampden Park, Millennium Stadium and .... Don Valley in Sheffield!! How bizarre!

And '93, plus Elland Rd in the 80s and smaller gigs at the uni and whatnot. Not that I'm a fan, they're a poor man's Simple Minds

Roundhay Park should be used more. I know the locals bitch about gigs there, but tough shit. Why weren't Take That courted by the council to bring their Summer tour here? Springsteen's doing a few outdoor shows, why didn't anyone invite him back to Roundhay?

I don't see why it shouldn't be used once or twice every summer

I totally agree with you Roundhay Park should certainly be used more often for concerts as well as Elland Road stadium. Has there been no attempt at getting acts to play at either venue since Robbie Williams played at Roundhay Park in 2006 (which I believe followed a long gap since the last musical event held there of the 2000 Love Parade and interestingly was just when his career was starting to decline when Take That were reformed at around that time) and the Kaiser Chiefs played at Elland Road last summer?

What happened to make Roundhay Park host fewer and fewer events considering I would imagine most of the nimbys living in Roundhay would surely have been still living in Roundhay when concerts were more frequent in the 1980s and 1990s and presumably and inevitably it is down to possible lost votes at local elections that the number of concerts have become a rare event at Roundhay Park :ohno: despite the obvious benefits of bringing money and prestige to Leeds when the likes of Madonna, Michael Jackson, the Rolling Stones etc had played there?

Also does anyone else remember that Roundhay Park hosted a four day music festival in 1994 known as the Heineken Festival which I presume could have been a prequel to the later V festival in 1997 and 1998 and latterly the Leeds festival (as a sister to Reading) from 1999 onwards which have been hosted around Leeds. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heineken_Music_Festival

Both RP and ER should certainly be utilised more often for summer concert acts. Also I guess it is worthwhile mentioning the Queens Hall which despite having been a popular gig hosting many acts and also an exhibition venue for many years (in the days before arenae came to the fore in the early 1990s onwards) was demolished in 1989 for absolutely nothing except for car parking and numerous plans for the abandoned Criterion Place developments of the mid 1990s and mid 2000s (unless you include the BT office and multi-storey car park which occupies a small part of that site). :ohno:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3118/2869696249_1a85948748_o.jpg

Other than the late 1990s plan to build an arena next to Elland Road I take it there was no plan at construct an arena for Leeds in the 1990s despite the opening of arenae in Manchester, Birmingham, Newcastle and Sheffield?

That Queen's Hall looks hideous, to be fair!

That Queen's Hall looks hideous, to be fair!

Yeah, I much more prefer surface car parks myself.


I'm guessing its the building near bottom centre on this photo:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2315/2326269935_8184091a26_b.jpg

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=781844

Quite the large complex. Stupid town planners.

Hmm... see some people might complain about the demolition of Queen's Hall and the creation of a long term surface car park, but overall it was probably the right decision - just look at the ugly riverside coach bay and industrial buildings in this picture. They're decent quality offices now - this area of town has definitely changed for the better.

Queen's Hall was never going to be another G-Mexx - it never looked good enough to start with.

Hmm... see some people might complain about the demolition of Queen's Hall and the creation of a long term surface car park, but overall it was probably the right decision - just look at the ugly riverside coach bay and industrial buildings in this picture. They're decent quality offices now - this area of town has definitely changed for the better.

Queen's Hall was never going to be another G-Mexx - it never looked good enough to start with.

Now the replacement of the coach bay is an obvious improvement, and it's good that the industrial buildings have been reused as offices etc. but what does that have to do with the Queen's Hall site? It may be bordering but it isn't the actual site itself where poor quality replacements and the lack thereof have been developed. If anything the fact that reusing these old industrial buildings as offices has been successful is even more of an argument against the demolition on this site. I personally wouldn't restrict what the site could've been used for, a mix of office, retail and the gig facilities with a different roof if required. For what has replaced it though it seems completely unnecessary, especially with Criterion Place now disappeared down the drainpipe.

Are there any further photographs of the Queens Hall as well as any interior shots? Did the venue actually use all of that space?

AFAIK Queen's Hall was originally a Leeds City Transport depot, not sure when it closed though. Unfortunate how many genuine old industrial buildings on Sovereign Street were demolished to be replaced by modern office blocks which look vaguely like the adjacent Victoria Mills. Same goes for those around Water Lane that were replaced by those awful fake Georgian style office buildings and Leodis Court.

Brilliant (if irritating) photo Dan, cheers!

Now the replacement of the coach bay is an obvious improvement, and it's good that the industrial buildings have been reused as offices etc. but what does that have to do with the Queen's Hall site? It may be bordering but it isn't the actual site itself where poor quality replacements and the lack thereof have been developed. If anything the fact that reusing these old industrial buildings as offices has been successful is even more of an argument against the demolition on this site. I personally wouldn't restrict what the site could've been used for, a mix of office, retail and the gig facilities with a different roof if required. For what has replaced it though it seems completely unnecessary, especially with Criterion Place now disappeared down the drainpipe.

Are there any further photographs of the Queens Hall as well as any interior shots? Did the venue actually use all of that space?

Fair point, but I suppose the redevelopment of the area (and other nearby projects like Leodis Court) have to be taken in the context of the late 1980s. These buildings may seem bland and uninspired from today's perspectives, but they were absolutely revolutionary in the 80s, when the services sector boom first kicked off. At the time, the concept of reusing those derelict looking warehouses as trendy apartments and offices was unheard of, and by no means were all of them attractive structures worth saving.

Fair point, but I suppose the redevelopment of the area (and other nearby projects like Leodis Court) have to be taken in the context of the late 1980s. These buildings may seem bland and uninspired from today's perspectives, but they were absolutely revolutionary in the 80s, when the services sector boom first kicked off. At the time, the concept of reusing those derelict looking warehouses as trendy apartments and offices was unheard of, and by no means were all of them attractive structures worth saving.

I agree. Although the architecture isn't cutting edge, it was these buildings that allowed Leeds to boom in the 1990s as a financial services centre.

Just found these videos of the demolition work on LCC's Vimeo account,

Leeds Arena: Demolition Begins - http://vimeo.com/4917822

Untitled - http://vimeo.com/5392305

double post...

She's gone!

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt118/awaren8/DSCF2304.jpg

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt118/awaren8/DSCF2306.jpg

Well it does certainly look a lot different and open there. Is this just going to be left empty or converted to the inevitable surface car park until the arena eventually starts construction (if it commences of course).

That shop/bar unit at the base of Opal must be worth someone taking on. Get it now cheap in the recession then you've got captive student/gig customers guaranteed!

Any renders yet?

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/Leeds-Arena-takes-significant-step.5460525.jp
Leeds Arena takes significant step forward

15 July 2009
Paul Robinson

PLANS for a new entertainment arena in Leeds are set to take a significant step forward.
The city council's executive board is expected to approve the terms of a lease agreement with the firm picked to run the arena when it meets next Wednesday.

Music industry giant SMG was chosen as preferred operator in May last year but the new agreement will formalise the partnership between the firm as the venue's tenant and the council as its owner and landlord.

Coun Andrew Carter, Leeds City Council's executive board member responsible for the development of the arena, said the approval of the lease would be a "huge stride" forward.

The council is due to submit an outline bid for planning permission for the 12,500-seater venue in October this year.

It hopes to appoint a contractor to build the facility by September 2010, with the completion date for the project currently pegged for late 2012. Demolition work is continuing on a tower block which occupies the proposed arena site, at Clay Pit Lane on the northern edge of the city centre.

Regional development agency Yorkshire Forward last month agreed to part-fund the scheme to the tune of £18m.

That level of support still needs to be approved by the Government, with a decision expected in the next few months.

Does that mean that when the Tory's get in it's all best off?

I doubt it because Andrew Carter who is of course leader of the council whose project it is, is Conservative. Having said that, there seems to be a complete lack of cohesion across the party- just take the Conservative divide in the Leeds City Region for one.

Any renders yet?

Doubt we'll see anything until Spring next year if they're only submitting an outline planning application in October.

Does that mean that when the Tory's get in it's all best off?

I think this one will still go ahead. I wouldn't get too excited about Tbus or any other public transport schemes though.

Doubt we'll see anything until Spring next year if they're only submitting an outline planning application in October.

The proposed timescale to be presented at next week's meeting of the the council's executive board:


3.14 The strategic development programme for the arena is as follows:

∗ Place OJEU Notice, Contractor Procurement July 2009

∗ Submit Outline Planning Application October 2009

∗ Determine Outline Planning Application March 2010

∗ Select Preferred Participating Contractor March 2010

∗ Confirm Contractor Appointment Aug/Sept 2010

∗ Start Development on Site October 2010

∗ Completion Arena Build Works July 2012

∗ Completion Tenant Fit Out Works October 2012

∗ Arena Opens November 2012

crikey, the demo really has gone quickly. Good positive news about the arena pushing forward. In these thin times, a new planning app for Oct doesn't sound so far away.

Looks like Betts is still spouting his nonsense:

Bid to scupper Leeds arena funding plan



« Previous « PreviousNext » Next »View GalleryPublished Date:
22 July 2009
By Paul Robinson and Mark Hookham
POLITICIANS in South Yorkshire are making a last-ditch bid to derail funding plans for the new Leeds entertainment arena.
Sheffield MPs have been long-standing opponents of the scheme, claiming it would damage trade at their city's existing concert complex.

Earlier this year they unsuccessfully tried to persuade publicly-funded regional development agency Yorkshire FADVERTISEMENT orward to drop its support for the project.

However, the agency's proposed investment still has to be signed off by the Government – and today it emerged that Sheffield MP Clive Betts is continuing to lobby against the scheme.

Mr Betts (Lab, Attercliffe) says that, before any decision is made, there should be a new assessment of the Leeds project's potential economic impact on Sheffield Arena.

He has told the YEP he has concerns about "flaws" in the information used by Yorkshire Forward to justify its support for the project.

Subject to Government approval, the development agency is planning to contribute £18m towards the cost of the arena. A further £60m or so is due to come from the city council, which intends to raise about two-thirds of its contribution through borrowing.

Coun Andrew Carter, the council's executive board member responsible for the development of the arena, today said a thumbs-down at this stage from the Government would be "inconceivable", adding: "It would cause outrage in Leeds."

Yorkshire Forward says its decision to back the scheme was made following an "extensive, independent evaluation".

The Government verdict on the agency's investment plan is expected late next month.

Sheffield MPs say Yorkshire Forward should not pump public funds into a scheme that favours one part of the county over another, as its brief is to improve the economy of the Broad Acres as a whole.

Sheffield Arena was built in the early 1990s with Sheffield City Council cash but is now privately run.

The site earmarked for the Leeds complex is at Clay Pit Lane, near the Merrion shopping centre.

Experts say the arena would create more than 300 jobs and generate nearly £30m a year for the local economy.

I see YF is funding a shopping development that ran out of cash in Wakefield. Is there going to be a raft of Sheffield MPs complaining about this too?

Surely better shopping facilities in Wakey could potentially drag customers away from Sheffield's shops?

I mean FFS. :ohno:

How are they justifying that? I'm not really sure that YF funding should be used for things like shopping centres, especially in a downturn.

From today's YEP.

Appears just to mean that Elland Road has been dropped as the reserve option and it's all or nothing on Claypit Lane.

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/Leeds-Arena-site-agreed-COMMENT.5486344.jp

Leeds Arena: site agreed

Date: 23 July 2009
THE £50m Leeds Arena will be developed at the proposed site on Clay Pit Lane, senior councillors have agreed.
The decision - backed by a YEP campaign - means that land at Elland Road earmarked as an alternative site can be used as part of the 2018 World Cup bid.

Coun Andrew Carter, Leeds City Council's executive member for city development, has already had discussions with operators SMG about securing a high-level sponsor for the 12,500-capacity arena, he revealed at yesterday's meeting of the Executive Board.

A report discussed at the meeting also revealed the schedule for development, with the venue due to open in November 2012.

Coun Carter said: "We are determined to live up to our own proposed schedule, which culminates in the development of an open arena by November 2012.

"SMG and myself have already discussed the suitability of different sorts of sponsors.

"We will maintain an input in sponsorship and naming rights, which is very important, as it was when we sold Leeds Bradford Airport.

"We would want to have the same sort of influence on any naming rights and sponsorship of our arena."

Hmmm... Sheffield are going to hold their own impact assessment of the Leeds Arena? Like that'll be a balanced document!

http://www.thestar.co.uk/headlines/Sheffield-Arena-must-up-its.5486348.jp

Sheffield Arena 'must up its performance'



« Previous « PreviousNext » Next »View GalleryPublished Date: 23 July 2009
SHEFFIELD Arena may have to make major changes to its business model if it is going to compete with a proposed rival venue in Leeds, city leaders have admitted.
The Star has learnt that Sheffield Council and Sheffield International Venues, the company which manages the Sheffield arena, are drawing up their own economic impact assessment of the proposed 12,500-seater Leeds arena.

Council chief executive JoADVERTISEMENThn Mothersole said it is important Sheffield Arena adapts "to the changing landscape" and maintains a sustainable business.

His comments follow the decision last month by regeneration quango Yorkshire Forward to part-fund the multi-million pound Leeds arena project after it commissioned its own assessment of the impact of the scheme.

Sheffield Attercliffe MP Clive Betts said he believes the Yorkshire Forward assessment was flawed and particularly contests the assumption that the Leeds arena would specialise in entertainment, while Sheffield arena is mainly a sporting arena.

He said: "Sheffield makes 90 per cent of its money from entertainment. A lot of its events are sporting events but it's the pop concerts that make money."

Mr Mothersole told The Star: "In addition to the economic assessment commissioned by Yorkshire Forward, Sheffield City Council and Sheffield International Venues have commissioned our own assessment on the impact of Leeds arena on the Sheffield Arena business.

"We must ensure that the business adapts to the changing landscape and that the business plan continues to deliver.

"The Sheffield Arena needs to maintain a robust and sustainable business model that is flexible but continues growth."

Westminster sources say the committee of government experts looking into the Leeds scheme met earlier this month and agreed to defer their decision for four weeks. They are due to meet again in mid-August.

Subject to government approval, Yorkshire Forward is planning to contribute £18 million towards the cost of the Leeds arena.

Coun Andrew Carter, Leeds council's executive board member responsible for the development of the arena, said a thumbs-down at this stage from the Government would be "inconceivable", adding: "It would cause outrage in Leeds."

Yorkshire Forward says its decision to back the scheme was made following an "extensive, independent evaluation".

How are they justifying that? I'm not really sure that YF funding should be used for things like shopping centres, especially in a downturn.

They're not funding it exactly, more they are facilitating it, to overcome the developer going bust and being replaced by another developer. It's the facilitation requires a certain amount of funding.

From today's YEP.

Appears just to mean that Elland Road has been dropped as the reserve option and it's all or nothing on Claypit Lane.

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/Leeds-Arena-site-agreed-COMMENT.5486344.jp

Good, I think that's the right desision to go all out for this site.

How are they justifying that? I'm not really sure that YF funding should be used for things like shopping centres, especially in a downturn.

Given that the banks are sitting on their assets despite LIBOR rates being extremely low, it seems fair that a body like YF should be able to step in and pump-prime. The money should be able to be recouped later when the economy picks up. After all, this is what should happen if we had proper regional accountable-finance semi autonomy on a continental model. At the moment too much depends on the Lord Mayor of England's final say-so.

The council have an arena website live

http://www.leeds.gov.uk/About_Leeds/Leeds_Arena.aspx

It is currently planned that the 'super-theatre' style arena will have a total capacity of 13,500 in a combined standing/ seating mode and 12,500 in full seating mode.

This is pretty disappointing. This arena will definitely play second fiddle to SMG's flagship arena, the MEN

It's been mentioned elsewhere that the first few rows of seating can be removed. Even so, that will probably only equate to about 2,000 seats, meaning that the Leeds Arena will only have about 3,000 standing places

This might not seem a big deal, but I tried to get Green Day tickets for a younger relative the other week and all the standing tickets for the tour went within minutes of going on sale. This happens when most rock acts tour arenas. This is why places like Manchester Central have been used a lot lately, it has a capacity of 9,000 all standing

Dublin's new O2 Arena is flexible enough to be a 14,000 capacity all seated 'Super Theatre', as well as being able to accomodate 8,000 standing with a tier of seating above, why couldn't the Leeds Arena be a slightly scaled down version of that? Why not make the entire lower bowl retractable and have 6-7,000 standing where appropriate?

I'm not bitching for bitching's sake. I just think that, given the cost and the fact that it's supposed to be 'state-of-the-art', the specs and flexibility should offer more than Sheffield and Liverpool's conventional arenas, especially given that Dublin have just opened an arena which accomodates the demand for standing and is truly 'multi-purpose'

Arenas have been criticised as soulless, lacking in atmosphere and unsuitable for rock gigs. So why are we building one with exactly the same problems as a sports-orientated arena?

Oh well, at least you'll be able to press a button and have a paper cup of pop delivered to your seat

Do you think musicals will tour here?

^^^haha, hopefully not!

Cllr Carter hits back:

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/War-of-words-over-Yorkshire.5489685.jp
War of words over Yorkshire quango cash


Coun Andrew Carter

« Previous « PreviousNext » Next »View GalleryADVERTISEMENT Published Date:
24 July 2009
By Mark Hookham
Political Editor
SHEFFIELD has had £90m more in regeneration cash from government quango Yorkshire Forward than Leeds over the last decade, it has been claimed.
A bitter war of words has broken out between the two Yorkshire cities amid fears that politicians in South Yorkshire are launching a last-ditch bid to derail funding plans for the proposed £80m Leeds entertainment arena.

The Tory deputy leader of Leeds Council, Coun Andrew Carter, today said it is "incredible" that the Government is delaying a decision on whether to allow development quango Yorkshire Forward to release £18m for the venue.

He said that a refusal to give the Leeds arena the green light will provoke outrage and prove that Yorkshire Forward is simply a '"South Yorkshire Slush Fund".

In a wide-ranging attack, he claimed that:


Yorkshire Forward has ploughed £247m into Sheffield during the last 10 years, compared with £157m for Leeds;


Sheffield is receiving around £140 per head more this year from the Government in its annual revenue support grant than Leeds;


South Yorkshire's Robin Hood Airport has enjoyed millions of pounds of public cash, while Leeds Bradford Airport has not received a "penny piece".

Coun Carter, the council's executive member for city development, launched his broadside following a long-standing campaign by Sheffield MPs, who claim a Leeds arena would damage trade at their city's arena.

Coun Carter said: "What really annoys me is that, like Leeds, Sheffield could have prioritised their own arena for refurbishment. They have been receiving money from Yorkshire Forward for 10 years.

"On not one single occasion have they prioritised their own arena for upgrading; and now their Members of Parliament complain about something which has been known to be a Leeds priority for a number of years.

"It simply is not acceptable."

He said there was now "little doubt" that a committee of government experts examining the Leeds arena plans have deferred their decision.

The council is now being told not to expect an announcement before the end of August, he said.

He added: "If we were not to get the support necessary, quite frankly, the Government would have, in one fell swoop, destroyed the credibility of their own Regional Development Agency, Yorkshire Forward.

"I think there would be outrage, not only in Leeds, but across West Yorkshire.

"The effect on the business community, I think, would be palpable, and the business community would join us in absolute condemnation of the Government.

"Effectively, they would have turned Yorkshire Forward into little more than a South Yorkshire Slush Fund."

Senior Leeds councillors agreed on Wednesday to allow the 12,500-capacity arena to be developed at the proposed site on Clay Pit Lane.

Coun Carter has already had discussions with operators SMG about securing a high-level sponsor for the venue.

Good case, although Sheffield needs all this investment, its not as if Leeds has been shy of investment over the last 10 years but this is all in the private sector unlike sheffield which isnt lucky enough to have that much investment by the private sector.

I'm a bit concerned to hear there will be so few standing places. I really hope that they do the right thing and ensure the standing capacity is maximised otherwise it could turn out to be a huge dissapointment. :ohno:

It doesnt say anywhere about the exact specifications for standing, to gain 1000 places for people standing theres going to need a lot of seats removed due to health and safety rulings on personal space etc. To gain 1000 places i would have thought the lower seating would all have to be removed.
We know this arena is going to be state of the art and SMG are not going to operate an arena that is sub standard so i think we can safely say it will be the best arena that can be built for the money availalble and to give the most flexibility.

Well said dekeeno, I don't why TY is getting so hung up about capacity and comparisons with MEN, being bigger doesn't mean being better. L.A. is built to a budget, and restricted by the size of the location, that being the case I think the plans are first rate.

It doesnt say anywhere about the exact specifications for standing, to gain 1000 places for people standing theres going to need a lot of seats removed due to health and safety rulings on personal space etc. To gain 1000 places i would have thought the lower seating would all have to be removed.
We know this arena is going to be state of the art and SMG are not going to operate an arena that is sub standard so i think we can safely say it will be the best arena that can be built for the money availalble and to give the most flexibility.

It says in the council documents and press releases that the first 12 rows of seats can be removed and the 'lower bowl' in the design is more than 12 rows and seats 5,000. Considering it's a fan shape, the lower rows are going to seat fewer people than the upper rows. I'm estimating, by looking at the design of the Dublin O2, that these 12 rows will seat 2,500 max, leaving a standing capacity of roughly 3,500

Well said dekeeno, I don't why TY is getting so hung up about capacity and comparisons with MEN, being bigger doesn't mean being better. L.A. is built to a budget, and restricted by the size of the location, that being the case I think the plans are first rate.

I'm not 'hung up' about it. I'm just interested in its design and how it compares with similar style arenas and those it ought to have been competing for events with. I recognise the problems with standard arenas and I'm following the Leeds Arena designs because I don't want (didn't want) Leeds to have an arena with the same limitations as Sheffield etc.

You're very thick, STOPGO, so let me explain something to you. This is a forum for buildings and associated urban developments. When somebody posts about a topic, it's because they're interested in it. It doesn't mean they're 'obsessed' or 'hung up' or in need of a life. Stop using SSC to reassure yourself that other people are sadder than you. Little weirdo

And when it comes to capacity and one operator runs two separate arenas, they're likely to consider the bigger arena the better arena.

Sorry Tony, no offence. Still agree with dekeeno, I prefer looking on the positives rather than the negatives.

Taken from the council website:

15) Will there be an Ice Hockey team for the Leeds Arena?
The proposal does not include the provision of a permanent ice pad, so there will not be a resident team at the site. The Leeds Arena will have the flexibility to accommodate a temporary ice pad, however

Seems that someone has missed a trick here. I appreciate that having a resident hockey team might be a bit unrealistic but most serious arenas have a permanent ice pad. It seems a bit strange that this arena won't.

Not a problem considering there's an ice rink proposed at Elland Road where there will be an ice hockey team though.

Not a problem considering there's an ice rink proposed at Elland Road where there will be an ice hockey team though.

True, hopefully that rink will be easily upgradeable to a higher seating capacity should the new team need it.

Any ideas what they are planning on doing with the land (they have made by knocking Brunswick Place down) between when demolishon is complete and when building the arena commences?

Any ideas what they are planning on doing with the land (they have made by knocking Brunswick Place down) between when demolishon is complete and when building the arena commences?

Hopefully, the area will become a greenspace something that puts grass and flowers into the concrete jungle even if its artificial grass.

I would expect they will leave it as it is until panning permission is given.

TY your point about the bigger arena being regarded the better is not necessarily true! The facilities an arena has and its flexibility have a massive impact on what it does in terms of business, and SMG wont favour Manchester over Leeds if they have any business sense, what is the point of owning an arena if you dont use it, an empty arena will only loose money. Its smaller capacity than Manchester is one reason why we will most probably end up with a lot better facilities, to up its appeal to touring artists and promoters. The arena market, in terms of outside promoters putting on shows and not SMG or LiveNation themselves, has shrunk considerably in the past few years due to the financial obligations of putting on such large shows. This has led to smaller arenas actually becoming more popular.

STOPGO's the man to address when it comes to capacity, he's the one with the hang ups. I'm just interested in the design (flaws)

I don't think the Leeds Arena is in danger of not being used, but if you find anyone worried that it won't be used, then I'm sure your wise words will reassure them

an empty arena will only loose money

Profound

I for one hope that they attract the PDC Premier League. Lots of darts interest in Leeds. Sid Waddell is brilliant!!!!!

STOPGO's the man to address when it comes to capacity, he's the one with the hang ups. I'm just interested in the design (flaws)

I don't think the Leeds Arena is in danger of not being used, but if you find anyone worried that it won't be used, then I'm sure your wise words will reassure them



Profound

I don't know how we can assess if there are any design flaws when there are no detailed plans yet.
If your not bothered about capacity or have no concerns about the Arena being used why keep banging on about it.

Arenas are never that pretty, so I don't care about the design. It's the economic and cultural impact of having one that is important :)

I don't know how we can assess if there are any design flaws when there are no detailed plans yet.
If your not bothered about capacity or have no concerns about the Arena being used why keep banging on about it.

I don't keep banging on about it. You're the one who's obsessed with it, get a life etc.

I know the design doesn't allow for any more standing than at a conventional arena, and I consider it a flaw. I wrote a very simple post about it on the last page, you might remember trying to read it

I don't keep banging on about it. You're the one who's obsessed with it, get a life etc.

I know the design doesn't allow for any more standing than at a conventional arena, and I consider it a flaw. I wrote a very simple post about it on the last page, you might remember trying to read it

I think [ no I'm sure ] you were making comparisons with MEN in regards to seating and capacity. Exact quote " I'm not bitching for bitching's sake " Both me and dkeeno read the post as a gripe about MEN having a bigger capacity and therefore attracting major artists. I agree with dkeeno just because something is bigger doesn't make it better. I hope this clears up any misunderstanding you may have had about mine and dkeeno's post.

Well I've said a lot of things about a lot of aspects. I think the capacity is just about fine and I've often found the MEN far too big for a lot of the shows I've seen there

But if you want to keep obsessing over it like a retard with a balloon, be my guest

But if you want to keep obsessing over it like a retard with a balloon, be my guest

As much as I want to say stop bickering, fantastic analogy.

But if you want to keep obsessing over it like a retard with a balloon, be my guest

As much as I want to say stop bickering, fantastic analogy.

Lol, I'm gonna have to remember that line.

Massive arenas are utterly soulless and offer a very poor experience unless you're near the front. The self-titled "World's Most Famous Arena" - Madison Square Garden - is a depressing place to see a band.

A fan-like design with 12,000 seats is perfect for Leeds.

And it does matter that the externals are as aesthetically pleasing as the internals. If we're gonna build a state-of-the-art arena, let's spend a little extra and make it look stunning inside and out.

This will be very special for the citizens of Leeds and beyond - make no mistake about that.

Massive arenas are utterly soulless and offer a very poor experience unless you're near the front. The self-titled "World's Most Famous Arena" - Madison Square Garden - is a depressing place to see a band.


They should never have knocked down Penn Station to build Madison Square Garden either.

Morning All,

Shall we run a book as to who will take the naming rights for the Leeds Arena?

With the state of the newspaper market I cannot see it being called either the Yorkshire Post Arena or the YEP Arena.

My previous favourite, the Leeds Carnegie Arena is probably out of the running now that the regime has changed at the Uni, so I would say that only leaves the Asda Arena as a frontrunner............

Chris Silverwood

Yorkshire Bank?

Radio Aire? or maybe Galaxy?

Morning All,

Shall we run a book as to who will take the naming rights for the Leeds Arena?

With the state of the newspaper market I cannot see it being called either the Yorkshire Post Arena or the YEP Arena.

My previous favourite, the Leeds Carnegie Arena is probably out of the running now that the regime has changed at the Uni, so I would say that only leaves the Asda Arena as a frontrunner............

Chris Silverwood

The Yorkshire Forward Arena ;-)

The plot thickens:


New twist in Leeds-Sheffield Arena rivalry

Published Date: 29 July 2009

By Paul Robinson

BOSSES at Sheffield Arena gave a key partner permission to run the concert complex proposed for Leeds – despite their much-trumpeted opposition to the scheme. Arena chiefs in the South Yorkshire city say it would be wrong for regional development agency Yorkshire Forward to invest public cash in the Leeds facility as it could damage their trade.

Now, though, it has emerged the South Yorkshire arena's owner, Sheffield International Venues (SIV), gave the green light for its operator, Live Nation, to sign up to the Leeds project. SIV chief executive Steve Brailey wrote to Live Nation in October 2007 agreeing to amend the firm's contract so it could "manage an arena in Leeds".

The original contract is thought to have barred Live Nation from getting involved with another arena scheme within a geographical area that included Leeds. In the event, the change of terms agreement proved academic, as Live Nation was beaten to the Leeds operator deal by music industry giant SMG.

But Mr Brailey's confidential letter was today still seized upon as a sign that Sheffield is overstating the likely impact of a Leeds arena. One source at Leeds Civic Hall said: "If our venue is going to be so disastrous for them, then why approve the idea of Live Nation potentially coming on board?"

Mr Brailey today told the Yorkshire Evening Post the decision had been taken as part of a "damage limitation" strategy. He said it was felt having the same operator in charge of both arenas would have less effect on Sheffield's business than if they were being run by two rival groups.

Yorkshire Forward wants to contribute £18m towards the cost of Leeds's city council-led project. Its spending plan still needs Government approval, however, with a decision expected late next month.

I particularly liked the penultimate paragraph.

The Yorkshire Forward Arena ;-)

"The Yorkshire Arena" .. just to wind up Sheffield even more :)

The 'Ken Bates Arena' is a popular suggestion in our office.......

The o2 North?
Leeds International Arena?
Rockstar Leeds Arena? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockstar_Leeds)
Jet2 Leeds Arena?
The NAB Arena/ The YORKSHIRE (Bank) Arena? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorkshire_Bank)

The o2 North?
Leeds International Arena?
Rockstar Leeds Arena? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockstar_Leeds)
Jet2 Leeds Arena?
The NAB Arena/ The YORKSHIRE (Bank) Arena? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorkshire_Bank)

I like all of those suggestions!

But as stated, it will probably be Radio Aire Arena (Or Airena if you like:bash:) or YEP Arena. Nearly every arena in the country is named after the local radio station or newspaper.

I hope it's not named after local media, probably will be though.

I don't really see why it would be an O2 North arena, and I can't see Jet2/ASDA/Rockstar lending their name to it.

The Back To The Future Arena because we should have had one twenty years ago.

'Greggs' proud to be yorkshire arena!
why not,there on every other street in Leeds.:laugh:

I've looked through much of this thread and cannot find any images of the proposed arena. There aren't even any on the first page where it would be easy for visitors to the forum, taking an interest in Leeds, to view the proposal without having to trawl through endless pages.

Any chance of some pics guys? It's only the most important development to be proposed there for about 80 years.

Cheers.

I've looked through much of this thread and cannot find any images of the proposed arena. There aren't even any on the first page where it would be easy for visitors to the forum, taking an interest in Leeds, to view the proposal without having to trawl through endless pages.

Any chance of some pics guys? It's only the most important development to be proposed there for about 80 years.

Cheers.

No designs have been released yet. In fact, I'm not sure whether they're even at that stage yet. Hence, no images.

No designs have been released yet. In fact, I'm not sure whether they're even at that stage yet. Hence, no images.

I thought the arena had been granted planning permission, in which case there should be all sorts of plans and images.

I've looked through much of this thread...

I thought the arena had been granted planning permission...

Didn't look through that much of the thread then

There's still funding to be secured before a planning app can be made. It might be a while before we see any pics

If you're interested in its fundamental design, check out the planned Scottish National Arena and the Dublin O2. It won't be as fancy as the Scots one, or as rock and roll as the Dublin one, but it's the same basic principle

[QUOTE=TonyYeboah;40548290]Didn't look through that much of the thread then

What's with the attitude Tony ?

I still think that The o2 Yorkshire/North is a big player for a name!

or what about The Northern Rock Arena? or even Keep the Name Leeds Arena and just have the sponsor under the name and all over the arena!

"The Leeds o2, Supertheatre and Music Hall." sounds good too!

why would o2 consider sponsering it tho? they havent any others cept their own london one

How about the Jimmy Saville Arena, or the Little Ern (as in Ernie Wise).

why would o2 consider sponsering it tho? they havent any others cept their own london one

They sponsor the Dublin Arena, the Berlin 'o2 World' arena, Prague's o2 Arena amonst others, sponsor the Leeds Academy (along with the other Academies), and are a quite large employer in the city.

They also have their o2 Blueroom service, a priority gig ticket service for o2 customers.

I do not think there is a chance that the arena will be named after local media. Local newspapers and local radio business models are bust.

Local radio stations are going bust on a weekly basis, the stock market quoted ones are trading at ridiculously low prices and the likes of Galaxy have taken to playing exactly the same music, at exactly the same time, on different geographical licenses, simply leaving the local dj's to talk over the top.

Chris

I'm not sure that Northern Rock and Leeds Arena would be a great synergy considering they'd be a failed bank sponsoring an arena opposite another failed bank :lol:

I'm not sure that Northern Rock and Leeds Arena would be a great synergy considering they'd be a failed bank sponsoring an arena opposite another failed bank :lol:

Don't worry, I was a political joke, I'm a Tory don't forget, glad someone picked it up! hehe.

and are a quite large employer in the city.
They are more than just quite they have 2+? large offices... :banana:

They are more than just quite they have 2+? large offices... :banana:

I couldn't remember how big they were.

In fact, I'm voting for this one. They could put a massive LCD on the outside to advertise events, and it could look like a massive iPhone.

I couldn't remember how big they were.

In fact, I'm voting for this one. They could put a massive LCD on the outside to advertise events, and it could look like a massive iPhone.

:P

what about something more traditional like Apollo (the Major Greek/Roman God for Music and Arts....)

or even just "The Claypit"

I vote for 'The Rhinomatt International Arena'.

Subliving.

What about...

The Leeds Pudding Arena

Sponsered by Aunt Bessies... :D :D

What about...

The Leeds Pudding Arena

Sponsered by Aunt Bessies... :D :D

Dont you mean YORKSHIRE Pudding Arena.... :lol:

I vote for 'The Rhinomatt International Arena'.

Subliving.

Ill vote for that! or even for "The Leeds International Musical and Performance Arena - Owned by Rhinomatt."

Ill vote for that! or even for "The Leeds International Musical and Performance Arena - Owned by Rhinomatt."

The LIMPA? :lol:

No, what about the 'Rhinomatt International Mega Music Arena' ?







Sorry, forget I said that :D

No, what about the 'Rhinomatt International Mega Music Arena' ?







Sorry, forget I said that :D

OI mr! :lol:

My apologies, it was a tongue-in-cheek remark... :shifty:

My apologies, it was a tongue-in-cheek remark... :shifty:
You know I loved it :|

It looks like contractors for the construction are tendering now.
Also, start and finish dates are being quoted as Nov 2010 to Aug 2012.


Leeds City Council seeks contractors for £55m arena project

Contractors have been invited to bid for a £55 million contract to design and build Leeds City Council’s proposed 12,500-seater indoor arena.

The Council’s design team will progress the design to RIBA Stage D with the appointed contractor’s design team progressing the design from this point onwards.

Construction will take place from November 2010 to around August 2012.

At least five contractors will be invited to tender on 12 October. Firms have until 11 September to submit pre-qualification questionnaires.

Construction News, dated: 6 Aug 2009

I know everybody can't wait for the Arena to open, but have years of waiting I have a feeling that eveything could be a bit of a let down. All we are talking about is a music venue, I don't think it will result in any massive transformation to the lives of the majorty Leeds residents.

It will fill the important gap that Leeds has in it's music offering though. It has a good choice of small/medium venues, and huge venues like Roundhay Park, but nothing in between. Leeds also seems to be a popular city for hosting music festivals and concerts so the arena will complement this.

If it doesn't affect people directly through the events that will happen there, it will affect them by regenerating a rather unpleasant area.

I see the point about regenerating an unsightly area, but there are quite a few of those around and in the city centre. I'm nether for or against the Arena, X Factor live, Eighties shows, Strickly Danceing or what ever it's called I can do with out. I would have prefered Supertram and Eastgate projects to have been realised before the Arena, I think those two schemes would have had more benefit economicaly and socially to the citizens of Leeds.

I'm sure many would have but it's not a question of what we want to build. Eastgate is several times more expensive than this and is privately funded. Supertram again was much more expensive and needed more than council funding.

ies shows, Strickly Danceing or what ever it's called I can do with out. I would have prefered Supertram and Eastgate projects to have been realised before the Arena, I think those two schemes would have had more benefit economicaly and socially to the citizens of Leeds.

Yeah, they had to cancel both those so the arena could go ahead. Shame really.

Yeah, they had to cancel both those so the arena could go ahead. Shame really.

I wouldn't put it quite like that, I just think people are overestimating the value and benefits of the Arena. I need to add to my list a railway link to L.B.A.

It will fill the important gap that Leeds has in it's music offering though. It has a good choice of small/medium venues

It will fill one of the gaps. It still needs a Wolves Civic, Manc Apollo, Blackpool Empress or even a Sheffield City Hall. There are a lot of tours that need a venue in between a 12,000 all seater and 2,000 mainly standing and they'll continue to bypass Leeds even when we have our arena

And what's happening with the Town Hall becoming a leading concert hall? More consultancy and council 'fact finding' tours into Europe, I suppose?

If the Academy could have been redeveloped with an extra balcony and a floor rake with removable seating, and if the arena had been designed to be as flexible as the Dublin O2, the city would have ended up with a repertoire of venues able to accommodate all but the most prestigious shows. As it stands, recent tours by the likes of the Manics, the Verve, Derren Brown and Ricky Gervais will still be bypassing Leeds even when the arena opens

And it's no good using Roundhay Park as an example of a big venue. It's never used. There's been loads of outdoor tours this summer, Springsteen, U2, Take That, Coldplay and Oasis have entertained the major cities. I won't say 'except Leeds', because Leeds isn't a major city when it comes to live music, nor will that particularly change when the arena opens

Great post Tony, agree with much of what's been posted. Mid sized venue would be appreciated, don't see the Town hall filling the gap. What capacity is the Grand Theatre, I remember seeing Roxy Music there in the mid seventies. It was also used as a comedy venue in recent years, but doesn't seem to be on the schedule now.
Regarding outdoor venues, why isn't Elland Road used ?

Town Hall plans didn't go ahead because people decided they'd rather see the money spent on the arena, so until £20m approx comes up then the Town Hall plans are effectively on hold.

Roundhay Park has been used just as much, if not more so, than other city parks. Heaton Park isn't as well used for large concerts as Roundhay is.

Elland Road's management don't seem to promote the stadium as a music venue, but there have been concerts there before. Kaiser Chiefs most recently.

I hate that expression " put on hold " why make statements about the Town Hall being a leading concert facilty, if you have no intention of going through with it. More lies and dam lies.

If they are not using it for the concert venue, why not use Victoria Hall as a Theatre?

Roundhay Park may have been used a lot in the 80's, but that's no good to anyone now. Millions of tickets have been sold for outdoor gigs this year. Take That sold over a million themselves, but not in Leeds, as usual

Elland Rd is no good for gigs, too many poles. Plus Ken Bates would probably insist we pay the same to see the Grumbleweeds as everyone else pays to see Bruce Springsteen. The Kaisers only played there because they're Leeds fans and there are now dozens of stadiums better suited to gigs than ER. It's not 1982 anymore

Anyway, it's no surprise Leeds is a backwater when it comes to outdoor tours. It's a backwater when it comes to arena tours, mid-sized tours, concerts, comedy and variety too. It'd be nice to see someone promoting the city and attracting Derren Brown to the Grand, or U2 back to Roundhay, but I don't expect it'll happen

If only there was some way of electing local people to represent and promote the city and use our taxes to bring to Leeds the kind of quality entertainment we all have to travel to other cities to see

So why did Robbie play Roundhay when everyone thought he was going to go for Manchester?

Robbie Williams absolutely detests Manchester, he cannot stand the place.

Anyway, Old Trafford football and cricket grounds are the outside concert venues used in Manchester on the whole.

Heaton Park does not get used more than once or twice a summer.

So why did Robbie play Roundhay when everyone thought he was going to go for Manchester?

I'm not sure what this comment has to do with what I posted, but a couple of points anyway

Did 'everyone' think he was 'going to go for Manchester'? Maybe there were rumours he was going to play a big outdoor showin the North before it was announced, but the promoters will have made their decision based on the venue and the potential profit above the city it happened to be in

Where else could he have played? Club football grounds are a no-no in early September if you want 12 months notice and cricket grounds and arenas are too small for a tour that big. So I guess it was Roundhay, maybe the Don Valley, Aintree, a less established park such as Heaton or one in another town

The point is that there are summer tours every year and Roundhay has only had Robbie Williams play there since about 97

If only there was some way of electing local people to represent and promote the city and use our taxes to bring to Leeds the kind of quality entertainment we all have to travel to other cities to see

I vote for councillors to keep schools open and streets clean, not to keep you from crying into your Take That pillowcase.

And there are no 'poles' in the way at Elland Road.

I vote for councillors to keep schools open and streets clean, not to keep you from crying into your Take That pillowcase.

Good for you. But I think they have a broader obligation to fulfill. As far as I know, the streets of Manchester, Sheffield, Birmingham and Newcastle are clean and their schools open, but they also enjoy a programme of top class and diverse entertainment in their concert halls, theatres and arenas

And there are no 'poles' in the way at Elland Road.

Only the ones holding 3 of the 4 roofs up

Only the ones holding 3 of the 4 roofs up

Which aren't in the way of anyone.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2027/2521388357_774e3c721b_b.jpg

Which aren't in the way of anyone.

Not when the seats in question aren't in use. But ER's poles would be no good if you were looking for a full house

http://www.boomshakamanagement.co.uk/mediac/400_0/media/take~that~nearley~full.jpg
The almighty Take That thrill a capacity crowd, unhindered by poles, at the CoMS

Not when the seats in question aren't in use. But ER's poles would be no good if you were looking for a full house

Like during a football match, for example.

But football clubs don't have the benefit of being able to choose where they play, unlike touring rock and pop acts

Sure, you could use ER for gigs, you could just not use most of the seats, you could even watch a show with half the stage obscured by poles, but the fact that it's been used just once in 19 yrs, by a band who happen to be Leeds fans, kind of supports what I said initially

"Elland Road is no good for gigs, too many poles in the way"

At least you're no longer disputing the existence of the poles

Racist!

The Poles have everyright to be at Elland Road if they've bought a ticket.

"Elland Road is no good for gigs, too many poles in the way"

At least you're no longer disputing the existence of the poles

Existence of poles never in doubt. Still think the idea that they're in the way and/or the reason why more gigs aren't put on at Elland Road is a load of bollocks. With a stage in front of the south stand, only the upper tier of the west stand and the upper tier of the kop have any poles to restrict a view, and in the kop you would have to be sat directly behind a pole to have any problem. So we're talking a handful of seats suffering any problem at all.

Existence of poles never in doubt. Still think the idea that they're in the way and/or the reason why more gigs aren't put on at Elland Road is a load of bollocks. With a stage in front of the south stand, only the upper tier of the west stand and the upper tier of the kop have any poles to restrict a view, and in the kop you would have to be sat directly behind a pole to have any problem. So we're talking a handful of seats suffering any problem at all.

Fair enough, but I'm not convinced and I stand by my initial point, that Elland Rd is no good for gigs, there are too many poles in the way. Why would anyone play at ER when there are dozens of stadiums where you don't have to worry about poles?

Agree with Sir Clive, there is nothing wrong with E/R and no reason why it shouldn't be used for major touring band/artists. To say there are dozens of better outdoor venues is nonsense.

Is the cricket ground not used a lot?

Lanc cCC seem to make a lot of money through concerts throughout the summer.

Agree with Sir Clive, there is nothing wrong with E/R and no reason why it shouldn't be used for major touring band/artists. To say there are dozens of better outdoor venues is nonsense.

So why are dozens of other stadiums used for gigs and ER isn't?

The two in Manc are used a lot and the cricket ground. Bolton is, Hull is, Wembley is, the Emirates is and Twickers is. There's 8

Let me think now, there's also the Ricoh and the Stadium of Light, and even Donny's Keepmoat has had Bryan Adams, Elton John and others in recent years. There's 11

The Don Valley's popular and well used for outdoor gigs and we're up to a dozen venues all hosting big gigs ahead of ER before going into Scotland and Wales with Hampden, Murrayfield and the Millennium

You can insist there's nothing wrong with ER and dismiss the restricted views, but there are plenty of places in the country not only better suited to gigs, but also used for gigs

So why are dozens of other stadiums used for gigs and ER isn't?

The two in Manc are used a lot and the cricket ground. Bolton is, Hull is, Wembley is, the Emirates is and Twickers is. There's 8

Let me think now, there's also the Ricoh and the Stadium of Light, and even Donny's Keepmoat has had Bryan Adams, Elton John and others in recent years. There's 11

The Don Valley's popular and well used for outdoor gigs and we're up to a dozen venues all hosting big gigs ahead of ER before going into Scotland and Wales with Hampden, Murrayfield and the Millennium

You can insist there's nothing wrong with ER and dismiss the restricted views, but there are plenty of places in the country not only better suited to gigs, but also used for gigs

Headingley is also used for smaller classical/opera concerts...

So why are dozens of other stadiums used for gigs and ER isn't?

The two in Manc are used a lot and the cricket ground. Bolton is, Hull is, Wembley is, the Emirates is and Twickers is. There's 8

Let me think now, there's also the Ricoh and the Stadium of Light, and even Donny's Keepmoat has had Bryan Adams, Elton John and others in recent years. There's 11

The Don Valley's popular and well used for outdoor gigs and we're up to a dozen venues all hosting big gigs ahead of ER before going into Scotland and Wales with Hampden, Murrayfield and the Millennium

You can insist there's nothing wrong with ER and dismiss the restricted views, but there are plenty of places in the country not only better suited to gigs, but also used for gigs
You not compareing like with like, some of the stadiums mentioned are National Stadiums so obviously have much bigger capacitys. I would guess E/R would be used could used if it was not for objections from the residents who live near by. That's why the siteing of the Arena near E/R was so problematic.

With 12,000 seats,what a big arena.

Is the cricket ground not used a lot?

Lanc cCC seem to make a lot of money through concerts throughout the summer.

A large scale concert at headingley would cripple the travel and local community..

I was at the takethat concert at old t**tford and it was a nightmare...people everywhere, not to mention the amount of litter 60,000 people make..

With 12,000 seats,what a big arena.

what's your point?

what's your point?

It's the spammer again.

Theres not much point employing people to encourage artists to perform in the city when theres no suitable venues! Ive tried 3 times to book acts into the Grand Theatre and havent been able to get any available dates because it is such a busy theatre. Not Opera North have their own rehearsal rooms things have freed up a bit but its still a nightmare, you dont get that issue in cities like Manchester where they have multiple theatres of a similar capacity, if one is full you just go somewhere else!

leeds has plenty of smaller venues, but when we get bigger (or medium sized) we tend to have a problem. Hopefully the next decade will see ER redeveloped, which will give one option, the arena will get built and Opera north will get a new rehearsal space, freeing up more time at the grand. This will give us

Elland Road:50k+
Arena: 12-20k
Academy: 3k
Grand: 2k
City Varities: 800

we do need a greater range of venues. The Town Hall could be used for touring comedy or smaller bands, I imagine with a capacity around the same as the Academy.

As for summer tours, we do need to bring more artists in. Elland road is one possibility, and Roundhay Park is another. Both need touting out to artists more as potential venues.

Refectory is about 2000 too.

Is the cricket ground not used a lot?

Lanc cCC seem to make a lot of money through concerts throughout the summer.

Not sure what that would do to the pitch (or it's expensive drainage system).

You not compareing like with like, some of the stadiums mentioned are National Stadiums so obviously have much bigger capacitys. I would guess E/R would be used could used if it was not for objections from the residents who live near by. That's why the siteing of the Arena near E/R was so problematic.

Whatever

The point STILL is that there are loads of stadiums, inc. some national stadiums, that both regularly host gigs and are better suited for gigs.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe ER is a great venue for gigs, but it's been used once in 17 years, so it's irrelevant and Leeds' poor offering when it comes to live music remains shocking

Theres not much point employing people to encourage artists to perform in the city when theres no suitable venues! Ive tried 3 times to book acts into the Grand Theatre and havent been able to get any available dates because it is such a busy theatre. Not Opera North have their own rehearsal rooms things have freed up a bit but its still a nightmare, you dont get that issue in cities like Manchester where they have multiple theatres of a similar capacity, if one is full you just go somewhere else!

Who did you try to book?

To be fair the Grand has a decentish programme coming up. Jimmy Carr, Ed Byrne, Al Murray, er, David Essex, but they're one off midweek dates and the bigger tours are missing Leeds. I imagine this is to do with the relatively small capacity as much as 'fixture congestion'

If Ricky Gervais had brought his tour here, for example, and played three nights like everywhere else, there's be a shortfall of 1500-2000 tickets even compared with the smaller venues on the tour like Newcastle City Hall. That's about 60 grand and he's a greedy man

Leeds needs a multi-purpose venue with about 2,500 seats as much as it needs the arena

Who did you try to book?

To be fair the Grand has a decentish programme coming up. Jimmy Carr, Ed Byrne, Al Murray, er, David Essex, but they're one off midweek dates and the bigger tours are missing Leeds. I imagine this is to do with the relatively small capacity as much as 'fixture congestion'

If Ricky Gervais had brought his tour here, for example, and played three nights like everywhere else, there's be a shortfall of 1500-2000 tickets even compared with the smaller venues on the tour like Newcastle City Hall. That's about 60 grand and he's a greedy man

Leeds needs a multi-purpose venue with about 2,500 seats as much as it needs the arena

I can live without Ricky Gervais, and where do you think the money will come from to fund a multi-purpose venue.

If the council consolidate all their services into one building as they are planning to do, and sell the buildings they currently own, they may get some money to put towards a venue.

I can live without Ricky Gervais, and where do you think the money will come from to fund a multi-purpose venue.

I'm sure you can and I have no fucking idea where the money will come from. It doesn't change the fact that Leeds is missing out on an awful lot of entertainment by having so few venues

Do you have autism?

If the council consolidate all their services into one building as they are planning to do, and sell the buildings they currently own, they may get some money to put towards a venue.

Is it the council's responsibilty? I'm sure the Manc Apollo is privately owned, but what about Sheffield City Hall, Newcastle City Hall and other similar venues? Anyone know?

I'm sure a new venue could turn a profit and there's plenty of tours to book, but probably not when you factor buying the land and building the building into the equation

The best chance of getting one would have been if the T&C could have been rebuilt a bit bigger with removable seats. I'd build one in HUV or CD if I had the cash

I'm sure you can and I have no fucking idea where the money will come from. It doesn't change the fact that Leeds is missing out on an awful lot of entertainment by having so few venues

Do you have autism?

You don't after to be rude, or stoop to insults. Everybody knows Leeds doesn't have the amount of venues of some other cities, everybody would like more, but the money as to come from somewhere.
I notice Tony that when ever you start losing the argument you always fall back on name calling and bad language. It's totally unnecessary and uncalled for.

It's not really anyone's responsibility, but I suppose it's more Leeds City Council's responsibility to please its residents more than any other body. So either it tries to encourage someone to develop a venue in Leeds, or it does it itself as it has done with the arena.

You don't after to be rude, or stoop to insults. Everybody knows Leeds doesn't have the amount of venues of some other cities, everybody would like more, but the money as to come from somewhere.
I notice Tony that when ever you start losing the argument you always fall back on name calling and bad language. It's totally unnecessary and uncalled for.

I wasn't having an argument. Nor were you. You don't seem capable of it

Everybody already knows that it costs money to build things. You can still discuss the buildings Leeds doesn't have, but needs and deserves

If it's not an argument, why resort to bad language and name calling ?

Now, now, ladies. Put those handbags away.

I cant disclose who i was booking but it is a shame Leeds gets missed out. Both the Town Hall and the Grand only have capacities around 1500 seats, which actually makes them completely unviable for the bigger names even in Classical music as the money invovled means you wouldnt turn a profit. A 2,500 seat venue like the Bridgewater would be lovely but the costs invovled would be astronomical, hopefully the new arena will be flexible so it could be used by classical audiences for events attracting say 6000 people without the need to show thousands of empty seats. Leeds is getting on the right lines with an arena, but it still has a long way to go in terms of venues. From looking at other cities this is as much the councils responsibility as it is private sector.

If Leeds ever gets round to building a conference centre then a auditorium there could have a 2000-3000 capacity, like the auditorium at HIC which regularly hosts concerts.

If Leeds ever gets round to building a conference centre then a auditorium there could have a 2000-3000 capacity, like the auditorium at HIC which regularly hosts concerts.

Yes, but you know that's never going to happen because Harrogate is all ready geared up to provide all the conference facilitys.

I don't think there is room in the City Region for another conference centre the size of Harrogate, but I think there is room for smaller conference and exhibition centres; particularly in Leeds.

If it's not an argument, why resort to bad language and name calling ?

Because you're really fucking annoying

If I credited you with any wit, I'd suggest you were doing it deliberately

Any more of this offensive language aimed at people Tony, and you'll be going in the brig to cool off a bit.

I don't think there is room in the City Region for another conference centre the size of Harrogate, but I think there is room for smaller conference and exhibition centres; particularly in Leeds.

I disagree. A Leeds City Centre International Conference Centre could easily become the première venue for conferences, Large AGM's and even perhaps theatre or music. This is due to the fact it would be in Leeds City Centre, the Centre would be world class and its surroundings would be modern and cosmopolitan with bars and hotels and prime shopping.
West Yorkshire should have a conference centre and Leeds is by far the best location (in particular the brewery site which would not only be next to Clarence Dock, Brewery Wharf, Granary Wharf and Holbeck Urban Village but would also be within walking distance of the city centre.

I disagree. A Leeds City Centre International Conference Centre could easily become the première venue for conferences, Large AGM's and even perhaps theatre or music. This is due to the fact it would be in Leeds City Centre, the Centre would be world class and its surroundings would be modern and cosmopolitan with bars and hotels and prime shopping.
West Yorkshire should have a conference centre and Leeds is by far the best location (in particular the brewery site which would not only be next to Clarence Dock, Brewery Wharf, Granary Wharf and Holbeck Urban Village but would also be within walking distance of the city centre.

It's not quite that simple though. As I've said before, Leeds would have to invest a huge amount in any venue to get to a standard that could compete with HIC. Leeds would be starting from scratch with a conference centre, so it would have to accept having an inferior conference centre for a while. I can't see any body in Leeds finding the amount of money needed to build a centre the size of HIC, which by the way I estimate would be over £500m.

Any more of this offensive language aimed at people Tony, and you'll be going in the brig to cool off a bit.

Fair do's

Elland Rd would seem the natural place for conference facilities to me. There's already some there, it's blindingly close to the Mway, there's loads of land, it would count as regeneration, there's scope for a rail link, hotel accommodation has PP and the amenities of the city centre are a stone's throw away. I'm sure a new hall or two would do well

And no, I don't know where the money would come from to build such facilities

What's the sq footage of the HIC? I imagine it's a lot smaller than the NEC but bigger than the Gmex?

which by the way I estimate would be over £500m.

Based on what exactly?

Based on what exactly?

Based on the fact that the 2,000sq. m expansion of HIC is costing £50m. So just estimating around £50m for 2000sq. m. Harrogate is 16,500sq. m currently but 18,500 with expansion, so 18,500/2=9,250x50= £462.5m. But then remember if you're starting from scratch then you'll probably have to build new car parks etc which I think would bring it up to around £500m.

HIC will be 18,500sq. m soon.

SECC is 22,355sq. m
GMEX is 10,730sq. m

Based on the fact that the 2,000sq. m expansion of HIC is costing £50m. So just estimating around £50m for 2000sq. m. Harrogate is 16,500sq. m currently but 18,500 with expansion, so 18,500/2=9,250x50= £462.5m. But then remember if you're starting from scratch then you'll probably have to build new car parks etc which I think would bring it up to around £500m.

HIC will be 18,500sq. m soon.

SECC is 22,355sq. m
GMEX is 10,730sq. m

Leeds could do it.

I should also add that the Yorkshire Event Centre, which is also in Harrogate, has 5,372sq. m of exhibition space.

So basically, I'm not saying Leeds shouldn't build a conference centre, but if it does, it has to find where it can fit into the city-region picture because it's no good trying to build something thats gonna try and compete with HIC cos thats effectively impossible with the funds that would be available.