Anyone think that the Liverpool underground stations need a revamp? Central, Lime St, Moorfields and James Street all have the tacky beige and brown plastic stuff and it looks so out of date. I've been to Moscow and Lisbon recently and the underground stations are tourist attractions on their own. Anyone who has been to Moscow would have noticed the chandeliers, marble and gold artwork, i know if this was in Liverpool some scally would probably spray "Macca loves Tracy" all over it but at least there could be something interesting to look at. In Lisbon they got local art students to design things for each station. Does anyone think that this would be a good idea or a total waste of money?

We are already discussing this in the 'If not trams...' thread but I suppose Merseyrail deserves its own thread. Merseyrail stations are apparently due to get revamps.

Good idea they haven't been touched for 30 years.

If matrix was here he would laugh also

If matrix was here he would laugh also
:?

i wonder where maggie went?

"Don't disturb my friend, he's dead tired".. Aah, that brings back memories of being a kid and watching the film "Commando" repeatedly. Happy days.

would it not be an idea to use all the tunnels that have now been abandoned below the city and simply re-introduce rails to extend the system???? Waterloo, Wapping.......not to mention all the smaller abandoned tunnels to the north. The old Loop line could be used to, we have routes and tunnels waiting to be used now and the beauty of most of these is THERE ARE NO RESIDENCE TO CONSULT, NO TREE'S TO CUT DOWN AND HALF THE JOB HAS BEEN DONE ALREADY! all they have to do is re-lay the tracks!!!!!!!!!!!

It would be nice for there to be heavy investment in sprucing up the underground and re-branding it to remind everyone that it is still there! It is small enough at the moment to be used a shining example of underground rail travel for the world. Its really under-utilised and stuck in a time warp, i would love to see this system expanded and better used, lets face it, you never hear about it in any of the regeneration speak and yet it is still a benchmark in underground and suburban rail networks!!!!


Loop line:

http://onfinite.com/libraries/543145/fa1.jpg

Waterloo Tunnel:

http://onfinite.com/libraries/543146/0b1.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/543147/c04.jpg

Wapping Tunnel:

http://onfinite.com/libraries/543148/788.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/543149/b2b.jpg



Its all a complete WASTE!!!!


(pics from Subterranen UK)

It would probably be a better (and cheaper) to run trams along those routes. Thats what Preston wants to do with its underground railways tunnels by 2014.

Liverpool can boast the first fully-operational railway line in the world, the Liverpool and Manchester Line, which was opened on 15 September 1830 . George Stephenson, the railway builder, had many problems to face along the route.The relief of the land was relatively flat for much of the way but when the line arrived in Liverpool there were two major obstacles. The Woolton-Broadgreen ridge was steep and a massive cutting was excavated to maintain a reasonable gradient along the line. The Olive Mount cutting, which is half a mile long, 80ft deep and 20ft wide, is still one of the deepest in the world and later railway engineers would have dug a tunnel through a ridge such as this.

There is a huge amount of information and many interesting facts contained within this article about the railways under Liverpool. This is well worth a visit! You will find information about: The first railway, the Crown Street Tunnel, the Lime Street Tunnel, the Wapping Tunnel, the Waterloo-Victoria Tunnels, the Northern lines and tunnels, the Cheshire Lines tunnels, the Wavertree Sidings tunnels, the Mersey Railway Tunnel, construction of the Mersey Railway Tunnel, drainage of the Mersey Railway Tunnel, electrification of the Mersey Railway Tunnel, the Link Line, the Loop Line and the Overhead Railway and its construction!

Click here for the whole article! (http://www.scouseology.com/railways.php)

Brilliant link Kev,great read. :cheers:

The old Loop line could be used to, we have routes and tunnels waiting to be used now and the beauty of most of these is THERE ARE NO RESIDENCE TO CONSULT

No residences to consult? There are loads of houses that back onto the Loop line, I can never see the Loop line being reused.

And if there we're no residents to consult, it would make reopening the line pretty pointless ;)

it would stop the asbo chasers on their quads and motorbikes tear-arsing up and down without a care for law abiding citizens though :bash:

Brilliant link Kev,great read. :cheers:


Glad u enjoyed it, its a long stretch I know but worth it :)

Here's the link for anyone who missed it (http://www.scouseology.com/railways.php)

Great read Kev, I do remember the OVERHEAD station at the Dingle end of the line, a long walk down from Park Rd to the island platform.

I'll mock up a Merseyrail map...................either tonight or tomorrow.

Apologies for the tardyness but here it is a day late. I'm really busy this week so I can't really post much currently. So you'll have to save any questions you have. So it's 'say what you see' time.

http://img328.imageshack.us/img328/2415/untitled27zg.png

What about a stop near the Royal Hospital, which would be handy for the University's also. These are two big institutions which probably have visitors coming in from the airport. Edge hill would be a good stop for the expanded Technology park.

That’s excellent Gareth!

I've been working as a contract worker for Merseyrail Electrics for the past 7 months and i've been using the Northern Line and Wirral Lines on a daily basis travelling around the network. I've noticed that the Wirral Line seems to be ‘spot on’ in terms of number of stations and the location of the stations. However, on the Northern Line there always seems to be a few stations ‘missing’, most notably between Moorfields and Sandhills and between Central and Brunswick. The idea of having a ‘Vauxhall Station’ as well as ‘Golden Bell’ and ‘Cathedral View’, which would serve the Baltic regeneration area are great ideas, and would be very well served once all the proposed developments come into fruition.

Merseyrail was recently taken over by SERCO, who operate the entire Northern Railways network, and therefore, money should no longer be a problem when it comes to improving the Merseyrail network.

I also like the idea of having ‘branch’ lines serving the areas of Anfield, Kensington, and West Derby etc – areas which are currently not served by rail. The LJLA link is also a great idea and much needed if estimated future passenger numbers are anything to go by.

IF the Merseytram scheme does fall through, I think Merseyrail should sieze the opportunity and invest heavily in the region’s rail service.

What about a stop near the Royal Hospital, which would be handy for the University's also. These are two big institutions which probably have visitors coming in from the airport. Edge hill would be a good stop for the Technology park.

There is already a station serving the Tech Park (i think Gareth has called it 'Science Park')

Edge hill would be a good stop for the expanded Technology park.

Apologies Juxt - I quoted you before you'd edited it!!

Apologies Juxt - I quoted you before you'd edited it!!
Sorry, just fine tuning my words, just meant for visitors coming in from the airport, they could get off at Edge Hill in order to get to the technology park.

Or using Gareth's renaming scheme "Edge Hill" could become "CuttingEdge Hill" due to the technology park. :)


There i go again editing again incorrectly calling "Edge Hill" "Edge Lane"... :bash:

they could get off at Edge Hill :

Zod chuckles childishly. m))

Good re-work of the merseyrail map though. I long for the day I can get the train to Norris Green.

Zod chuckles childishly. m))

Good re-work of the merseyrail map though. I long for the day I can get the train to Norris Green.

Norris Green Broadway shops :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Didn't there used to be a link between Hunts Cross and Gateacre stations at one time?

Norris Green Broadway shops :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

I'll second that. :cheers:

Didn't there used to be a link between Hunts Cross and Gateacre stations at one time?

A Hunts Cross BR employee hit me with a pellet gun when I was looking over the bridge. Almost lost my left eye. Cunt was found guilty at Dale St Mags :bash:

A Hunts Cross BR employee hit me with a pellet gun when I was looking over the bridge. Almost lost my left eye. Cunt was found guilty at Dale St Mags :bash:

that's bad that. :uh:

Sorry to hear about that Scoserdave.

What the hell was a BR employee doing shooting with a pellet gun, was he a bit unstable.

Sorry to hear about that Scoserdave.

What the hell was a BR employee doing shooting with a pellet gun, was he a bit unstable.

Don't recall too much about it. I think I was 11 at the time. A gang of us were walking back to Torrington Drive, Halewood and we just happened to look over the bridge. I had to attend court, but didn't give evidence. To this day, I can't understand why he done it.

Maybe he confused your hair for a pigeon or something? Or he might just have been a prick. :D

Maybe he confused your hair for a pigeon or something? Or he might just have been a prick. :D

I remember reading a story similar to that from America were a hunter with an fluffy hat on was shot in the head and died because a young lad thought his head was a squirrel. :lol:

STOP LAUGHING YOU EVIL BASTARD! That's not funny! :D

Scouse cunts.
No wonder I moved darn sarf at such an early age :)

You should always get out at Edge Hill, thats what the wife tells me :tiasd:

Gareth's map is great. Hope that one day we will see it come true. I suppose the existing St James Station would serve as Cathedral View whilst Golden Bell sounds like the Chinatown Station proposal which would be a costly underground station constructed on an operational line.

I think that if services were to be provided on the Outer Rail Loop as far as Gateacre, it would make sense to extend them as far as Hunts Cross, so completing the southern loop. The Aintree to Bootle line, that is proposed for reopening, would help close the gap on the northern loop.

Track relaying on an existing trackbed is nothing like as expensive as completely new track or tunnel so eleven miles of reopened track from Hunts Cross to Sandhills should be in reach of the Merseytravel budget. However, it would almost certainly require the revival of the Edge Hill Spur scheme that would require some new tunnelling and a new underground station at Broad Green (the Rocket Pub was designed to have a station beneath).

It only seems to be in this country (and the USA) that sensible extensions to city mass transit systems are so difficult to construct. At least in Liverpool we have the vast majority of the expensive infrastructure already in place.

As long as the population continues to grow, I dont see why it cant be considered officially in the next few decades.

An Electric Performance 27 July 2005 Merseyrail Electrics has marked its second year of operation under the control of Merseytravel with an impressive list of successes including a 5.5 per cent increase in passengers and a reduction of ten per cent in people traveling without tickets.

Merseyrail now also consistently outperforms every other network in mainland UK and 91 per cent of passengers have just voted the service overall as “satisfied/good” compared with the national average of 77 per cent.

Councillor Mark Dowd, chair of Merseytravel, said: “We now have the best all-round rail network in the UK which will play an important part in our overall objective to provide a first class public transport system fully accessible to all on Merseyside.

“Before we granted the concession to Serco-Nedrail two years ago we asked passengers what were their main concerns about rail travel. Personal security and the perception of safety was a high priority.

“We acted on those concerns and we now have Accreditation of Secure Station status for six stations, with another six expected by the end of this year.

“We now have 40 additional security staff patrolling after 3pm, there are six Community Support Officers sponsored by Merseytravel plus an extra 10 British Transport Police officers, to be followed by ten more by the end of this year plus a further ten next year.

“The 32.5 million refurbishment of the Merseyrail fleet is now nearing completion and every carriage is equipped with CCTV which can provide images up to evidential standard.

“Public transport is a safe form of transport with problems caused my only a tiny anti-social minority but we will not tolerate any interference with the safety and comfort of passengers.”

Neil Scales, chief executive and director general of Merseytravel, said:
“These are brilliant results by any standards and a total vindication of our request to take over control of Merseyrail Electrics from the Strategic Rail Authority.

A further survey among passengers which shows a 42% improvement in those voting “Satisfied / Good” for both the cleanliness of the train and the provision of information during the journey.

The survey also indicates a 69 per cent increase in the customers satisfied with the upkeep and repair of the train while 27 per cent more of those surveyed believed that the comfort of the seating area was good.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
See also:
http://www.serco-nedrailways.com/pressandmedia/casestudies04.html

http://www.serco-nedrailways.com/aboutus/merseyrail.html

http://www.railwaygazette.com/2003/037-cty5.asp

By 2011 all 80 stations on the Merseyrail network will be disabled-accessible, compared with 40 today. A rolling programme will see 25 surface and five underground stations refurbished or rebuilt by 2006. Ticket gates will be fitted at Liverpool Central, Lime Street, Moorfields, James Street, Hamilton Square and Southport stations by early 2005.

Merseytravel is considering the extension of electric services to Woodchurch on the Bidston - Wrexham line, on the Bootle branch, and to new stations at Stanley Park and Aintree.

LIVERPOOL MERSEYRAIL TO MERSEYRAIL METRO

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200102/cmselect/cmtlgr/558/558ap50.htm


There has been extensive discussion over the last year regarding the role of Merseyside PTE in setting franchise service standards, relative to the SRA. This outline principle has been agreed. Railfuture believes there is a strong case to separate the Merseyrail Electrics Metro network entirely from the national Railtrack network.



— As Merseyside is a European Objective One zone, significant EU funding could be available.

— The PTE could own or lease the infrastructure and then appoint a franchisee, similar to the Docklands Light Railway, subject to Government financial support being available to maintain the ageing tunnel infrastructure under the Mersey. Another option is for Merseytravel to operate the network itself, as in Tyne and Wear.

— The Merseyrail concept was born out of two studies, published in the mid-1960s. The Merseyside Area Land Use Transportation Study—MALTS set out the regional network that was initiated in the late 70s with the Liverpool city-centre "Loop and Link". Another study proposed the Liverpool Outer Loop.

— The opportunity exists for a number of smaller extensions to the existing third-rail electric system including "out-of-county" extensions which could be delivered within five years, rather than six-ten years as currently envisaged, along with significant service improvements, particularly at the peaks.

— Inner city area stations at St James and also Vauxhall could be progressed more rapidly.

— Extending electrification in the Wirral area from Bidston to Woodchurch is set out by the PTE (and Railtrack in its 2000 Network Management Statement) as a priority. Continuing from Woodchurch to Neston and Shotton could provide a new regional interchange with the Crewe—Chester—Holyhead route, with new stations at Gayton, Little Neston—Marshlands Road and Burton Ness.

— Some electric trains could continue from Shotton to Wrexham with support from the Welsh Assembly. Evaluation of this option has been undertaken by Ove-Arup and Railtrack.

— Extending the "Electrics" from Ellesmere Port to Helsby would complete the Cheshire network.

— Some major extensions in Liverpool could be delivered within seven years, providing Merseyrail links to some relatively depressed inner-city districts.

— Eventually the Merseyrail Electrics could extend into the adjacent counties with a new link to Skelmersdale, as well as to extending existing services to Wigan and Buscough Bridge Interchange.

— Additional funding could establish a link from Central Station into Wapping Dock Tunnel, on to Edge Hill and Wavertree Technology Park, with a new station serving the University and the Toxteth district. This service could continue over a freight line to Stanley, Anfield and Kirkdale and eventually to Bootle, "Giro" and Aintree.

— Longer term projects could include restoring the abandoned railway, now part of the Liverpool Loop Cycleway, from Hunts Cross to Gateacre, Broad Green, Knotty Ash, Norris Green and Walton or Aintree.

— Other Liverpool local routes could be upgraded to Merseyrail type services such as the Lime St-Allerton line, extending trains at half-hourly intervals to Widnes and Warrington, also to Runcorn and Chester or Crewe. A new Wavertree Station could be opened at Smithdown Road.
These objectives are all relatively straightforward but require Government funding. If all of the above were completed within the 10 Year time span, Liverpool and the Merseyside region could enjoy an urban metro service comparable with any similar city region in Europe. (These issues have been discussed with Merseytravel.)

Quite a long wish list there Pietari. I don't think any of those projects are particularly new but they are sensible extensions to what we have already. The integration of the City Line system with the Northern and Wirral lines would have great benefits for the whole of the network and bring economies of scale to the Northern line, as well as freeing up train paths into Lime Street.

I think the project most likely to go ahead in the near future is Bidston Woodchurch electrification. In fact, one of the justifications for Conway Park station was that it
would have a five minute interval service thanks to it serving three branches rather than the present two.

Merseyrail are looking to extend the Kirkby branch is to be extended a mile to Tower Hill (Headbolt Lane).

This is from Merseytravel back in April.

Merseytravel is to extend electrification of Merseyrail’s Northern Line by a mile and build a new station at Headbolt Lane, Kirkby.

The scheme will receive priority in the new five year Local Transport Plan which comes into operation next year.

Neil Scales, Chief Executive and Director General of Merseytravel, said:
“We have yet to do full costings of the scheme but it will be greatly assisted by the fact we have managed to acquire electrical equipment from the South East of England.

“We discovered there was a surplus of ‘third rail’ kit for which Southern Region had no further use – so have helped them by offering to take it off their hands.

“We shall have to present a business case to the Government but Headbolt Lane station and the extended electrification is a priority for Merseytravel.”

George Howard, MP for Knowsley North and Sefton East, who inspected the site of the new station, said:“This is great news for Kirkby as it will provide direct links between Towerhill and Northwood both to Liverpool and Wigan via West Lancashire.

“Not only is this good news for the travelling public, it also provides a powerful boost to the local economy.

“This development underlines the importance of local passenger transport authorities working together with central government to improve local transport.

“Merseytravel has a nationally recognised reputation for delivering services efficiently, to cost and on time and this demonstrates, again, how they are positiviely responding to local needs.”


The railway line through Kirkby was formerly part of a through route between Liverpool and Wigan but it is now physically separated at Kirkby into two different services, each with its own platform but with a passenger footpath link and a common station ticket office;

The line towards Liverpool is a branch of the electrified Northern Line linking Kirkby with the city centre. A frequent service operated on this line by Merseyrail.

The line towards Wigan is not electrified and diesel trains provide through services to Wigan and Manchester, operated by Northernrail.




There is no direct means by which people can use the fast and frequent train service to Liverpool city centre – currently this requires catching a connecting bus to Kirkby station, or by travelling all the way on the bus through to Liverpool.

The new station will provide new “turn-back” platforms for both the electric and diesel services.

The station will be fully accessible and comply to full DDA standards and will incorporate both a bus interchange and “Park & Ride” facilities.

Thanks for your comments Martin.

I`m a real fan of "Merseytram" especially in the down town area but I can`t help thinking that "Merseyrail" could do so very much more with the infra structure mostly already in place.

Different schemes for different places etc I know.

:)

MerseyRail in top 5 for punctuallity.


Link to BBC news site here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4282366.stm)

Couldnt agree more, merseyrail needs to be the replacement for the merseytram scheme. The hardest part of creating a feasible underground system in Liverpool has already been done, what we have to today! thanks to forwarding thinking during better times! And the existing system did also provide the infrastructure for expansion, for instance links to the disused wapping tunnel to create an eastern extension to merseyrail, also, with a little thought, the line could also be extended through waterloo tunnel to provide the universities and london road/royal site with some underground stations. This would be easy because most of these lines have occasional breaks in the earth allowing construction to be straight forward at these keys areas! Both of these lines, as with London underground would provide quick and easy access to key locations in Liverpool as well providing the impetus for further growth and regeneration!

And lets not forget the many abandoned lines there are around the city that were created for a larger population and are now just gathering dust as nature trails and cycle paths! LIVERPOOL LOOP LINE is the best example!

The planners need to get their fingers out, these could all, phased and well planned, provide a cheaper and possibly quicker (in terms of construction) solution to the 10 year TRAM HEADACHE!

You do realise that even a small line would cost more than the whole of the Merseytram scheme dont you?

You do realise that even a small line would cost more than the whole of the Merseytram scheme dont you?

One line of Mtram was to have cost over £200 million.
The whole system of 3 lines would be nearer £1,000 million.
I don't think a small rail line would cost anywhere near that,taking on board what was said in the previous post.
You could be right however and if you can show the figures to prove this then i will believe you. :cheers:

My bad. I wasnt thinking when I wrote that lol. I was thinking in terms of extending the underground section of the line.
Okay, extend Merseyrail...

Hang on?

The Liverpool Loop Line might not be right cos I remember someone saying it would never be used again because its not the right route for modern times.
Okay then. No?

How about a special line to Matalan? That has to work.

How about a special line to Matalan? That has to work.
That line exists and it has it's own station, Edge Hill. Just about a two minute walk from the station to the Matalan store front door.

new metro rail links arent that difficult or expensive to build, london is far more expensive to develop extensions to tube lines because of land prices and large expense because of the type and age of the lines there is difficult and expensive to build in the 21st century, lines like the docklands light railway however are much cheaper to develop and is the type of metro system that is seen in cities like copenhagen etc, faster and more efficient than trams and could probably be looked into for suitability in liverpool

You do realise that even a small line would cost more than the whole of the Merseytram scheme dont you?

Accy boy to electrify existing lines Merseyrail have looked at buying up surplus 3rd rail equipment from the London area, so to extend the Wirral line and Northern line could be done very cheaply, also no new rolling stock would be needed.

Forget about new underground lines, far to expensive.

Where would the Northern Line be extended to? IMO it goes as far as it needs to already.

Where would the Northern Line be extended to? IMO it goes as far as it needs to already.

Short extention through Kirkby and extend from Hunt Cross to Warrington.

Short extention through Kirkby and extend from Hunt Cross to Warrington.

Warrington would be good - and whilst they're at it link Wanrrington Central and Bank Quay stations with a curve. The trains could then follow an outer loop onto via Helsby (on newly electrified tracks) to Ellesmere port and onto the Wirral line.

Whilst you're at electrify the Bidston line and build new stations at Prenton, Beechwood and Clatterbridge hospital and ACTUALLY ADMIT THAT THE LINE EXISTS - I mean has anyone tried to find Heswall Hills station?

Heswall train station couldn't be in a more inconvenient place. Its by the one stop shop on the road that goes out towards Brimstage. It needs to be in the town centre, its a pretty busy place, just as busy as west kirby i'd say. stations are needed in a few places on the wirral, but its the space to build them. One needs to be built between meols and moreton, one in greasby. And the line that heswall, upton and neston are on, it should be connected, so there shouldn't be a need to get off at bidston and change, for going into birko and lpool.


Warrington would be good - and whilst they're at it link Wanrrington Central and Bank Quay stations with a curve. The trains could then follow an outer loop onto via Helsby (on newly electrified tracks) to Ellesmere port and onto the Wirral line.

Whilst you're at electrify the Bidston line and build new stations at Prenton, Beechwood and Clatterbridge hospital and ACTUALLY ADMIT THAT THE LINE EXISTS - I mean has anyone tried to find Heswall Hills station?

Heswall train station couldn't be in a more inconvenient place. Its by the one stop shop on the road that goes out towards Brimstage. It needs to be in the town centre...
But if Heswall station was (somehow) moved to the town centre it'd become even more inconvenient to use, what with it then being some 3.5km away from the nearest railway line and, erm, trains. Heswall sits on a ridge between 70-107m above sea level, the railway line is therefore forced to run along lower ground at edge of town and the station, obviously, has to be next to the track.....all resulting in, unfortunately, a poorly sited station.

And as for "Clatterbridge Hospital Station" - well that'd be over 4km away from the Lpl/Chester line and over 6km from the Bidston/Shotton one so another non-starter methinks...

Accy boy to electrify existing lines Merseyrail have looked at buying up surplus 3rd rail equipment from the London area, so to extend the Wirral line and Northern line could be done very cheaply, also no new rolling stock would be needed.

Forget about new underground lines, far to expensive.

I agree that underground lines are very expensive but I hope that we never give up on the Edge Hill Spur, which would allow through electric services from St Helens, Huyton and Broad Green into Moorfields and Central. All the junction tunnels for this line have been built and all is required is a section of twin single track tunnels from around the area of the Chinese Arch to the Victoria Tunnel near Edge Hill with probably one underground station to serve the University.

An even cheaper version of this scheme would make use of the Wapping Tunnel, require shorter new tunnels and may even allow the reopening of the old Cavendish Cutting station where the Liverpool and Manchester Railway started.

The overall scheme would involve electrification from St Helens to Edge Hill, new tunnels, one new underground station and new, or refurbished rolling stock. I suspect the cost would be around £2-3 hundred million but would complete the Merseyrail network, make more efficient use of rolling stock and allow through journeys across the conurbation.

The price would be high but compare it to London's Crossrail which will cost £10 billion.

By the way, the surplus third rail equipment sounds like the Class 508 units that were originally based on Merseyrail but were off-leased due to under utilisation some years ago.

The price would be high but compare it to London's Crossrail which will cost £10 billion..

Yes Martin at £10B thats even more than the West Coast upgrade.
I agree that constructing the Edge Hill spur would be very desirable and complete the 70`s plan, but I just cannot see the DfT coughing up £2to300M when its not even in Merseyrails plans or mentioned as a long term aim in the local transport plan. Merseytravels "eggs have all been in the tram basket" if the 3 line tram system is axed they will need a radical re-think on future transport requirements , they could then turn to Mereyrail to see if it could plug the gap left the tram.

Mr Darlings still got £170M in his pocket, just think what Merseyrail could do with that nice little wad. :)

It is a very long term objective but one that makes perfect sense. I know that things have changed a lot since the 70s but when you compare the construction of a short length of tunnel, one underground station and the electrification of one branch to what was achieved then, it does put it into perspective.

In fact, I remember reading that the cost of the additional works, which included the Edge Hill Spur, the Outer Rail Loop and electrification out to Hough Green, Wrexham and Wigan would only represent 10% of the cost of what had been achieved by the Loop and Link scheme.

Obviously a lot more now - but congestion, global warming etc are not going to go away so what is politically difficult now may be common sense in ten or twenty years time.

http://icseftonandwestlancs.icnetwork.co.uk/icsouthport/news/tm_objectid=16210614%26method=full%26siteid=60252%26headline=demand%2dfor%2dnew%2dstation-name_page.html

Demand for new station Oct 5 2005

By Julia Nason, Midweek Visiter

A RAIL station could be built at Kew, near Southport Hospital after politicians met to demand improvements to our town's transport links.

In a meeting described as the "most substantial progress ever made", representatives from across Merseyside and Lancashire joined forces to ease a situation that has been made critical after the recent split of service between Southport and Ormskirk hospitals.

Issues looked at included:

Story continues

* A new rail station at Kew, near Southport Hospital

* Re-opening the Burscough Curves, providing direct rail links between Southport and Ormskirk

* An Ormskirk Bypass, relieving pressure on the often congested Southport-Ormskirk road

* Investigating the re-opening of a direct Southport-Preston rail link

* Opening a new road between Switch Island and Southport

* Improving bus services between Southport and Ormskirk

Cllr Iain Ashcroft, portfolio holder for transport for West Lancs District Council, said: "The problems that are perceived by people in both Southport and West Lancs is that there is poor communications, both by road and rail, particularly for people trying to get between the

two hospitals. "Southport as a town is getting bigger, and is attracting more and more visitors all the time. That is creating a knock-on effect for people living in all directions and that is complicating the situation. An Ormskirk Bypass would be one way

of relieving the pressure."

The meeting was attended by representatives from: Merseytravel, Lancashire County Council, Sefton Council, West Lancs District Council, Southport and Ormskirk Hospital Trust, local businesses and MPs.

The aim was to ensure all parties put forward a co-ordinated case in their Local Transport Plans due to be put before the Regional Assembly next year to gain maximum funds for the projects.

It is hoped the plans will not only improve transport for hospital patients but also boost local businesses.

Southport MP John Pugh, who organised the meeting, said: "This is the first time so many key players have been in the same room and I am very grateful to them all.

"It is difficult because the area falls under different authorities and we need to get support from everyone to ensure we have the best chance possible of getting the funds we need to move forward. "Separately we will struggle but together we can get results. This was very important step forward." .

WHAT do you think? E-mail us at: visiternews@ southportvisiter.co.uk or write to: Your Views, Southport Visiter, 26-32 Tulketh St, Southport PR8 1BT.

I can't see much of that happening soon...
Can Burscough really justify having THREE stations?!

Of course it can. Burscough rules!

It was okay until they got the new Tesco's, now it looks crap...
The canal is still nice though.

http://icseftonandwestlancs.icnetwork.co.uk/icsouthport/news/tm_objectid=16210614%26method=full%26siteid=60252%26headline=demand%2dfor%2dnew%2dstation-name_page.html

Demand for new station Oct 5 2005

By Julia Nason, Midweek Visiter

A RAIL station could be built at Kew, near Southport Hospital after politicians met to demand improvements to our town's transport links.

In a meeting described as the "most substantial progress ever made", representatives from across Merseyside and Lancashire joined forces to ease a situation that has been made critical after the recent split of service between Southport and Ormskirk hospitals.

Issues looked at included:

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* A new rail station at Kew, near Southport Hospital

* Re-opening the Burscough Curves, providing direct rail links between Southport and Ormskirk

* An Ormskirk Bypass, relieving pressure on the often congested Southport-Ormskirk road

* Investigating the re-opening of a direct Southport-Preston rail link

* Opening a new road between Switch Island and Southport

* Improving bus services between Southport and Ormskirk

Cllr Iain Ashcroft, portfolio holder for transport for West Lancs District Council, said: "The problems that are perceived by people in both Southport and West Lancs is that there is poor communications, both by road and rail, particularly for people trying to get between the

two hospitals. "Southport as a town is getting bigger, and is attracting more and more visitors all the time. That is creating a knock-on effect for people living in all directions and that is complicating the situation. An Ormskirk Bypass would be one way

of relieving the pressure."

The meeting was attended by representatives from: Merseytravel, Lancashire County Council, Sefton Council, West Lancs District Council, Southport and Ormskirk Hospital Trust, local businesses and MPs.

The aim was to ensure all parties put forward a co-ordinated case in their Local Transport Plans due to be put before the Regional Assembly next year to gain maximum funds for the projects.

It is hoped the plans will not only improve transport for hospital patients but also boost local businesses.

Southport MP John Pugh, who organised the meeting, said: "This is the first time so many key players have been in the same room and I am very grateful to them all.

"It is difficult because the area falls under different authorities and we need to get support from everyone to ensure we have the best chance possible of getting the funds we need to move forward. "Separately we will struggle but together we can get results. This was very important step forward." .

WHAT do you think? E-mail us at: visiternews@ southportvisiter.co.uk or write to: Your Views, Southport Visiter, 26-32 Tulketh St, Southport PR8 1BT.

http://icseftonandwestlancs.icnetwork.co.uk/icsouthport/news/tm_objectid=16219855%26method=full%26siteid=60252%26headline=plans%2dfor%2dcycle%2droute%2d-name_page.html

Plans for cycle route Oct 7 2005

Southport Visiter

A SOUTHPORT cycling group is seeking a £10,000 conservation grant to build a cycle route from Southport to Ormskirk.

The anticipated route utilises the former LMS railway line from Kew to Halsall and it is envisaged work could begin as early as spring 2006, taking upwards of four years to complete.

The Path-n-Pedal pressure group has spent several months producing a plan to be submitted to the British Trust for Community Volunteers, a lottery funded charity.

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Peter Owen, secretary, said: "The concept is to produce a multi-user

facility providing a traffic free environment for cyclists and pedestrians."

The cycle group aims to use recycled council paving slabs to produce a six-foot wide path, able to accomodate two lanes of cycle traffic.

He said that the plans were also a response to the lack of interest from Lancashire County Council in providing cycle routes in the West Lancashire area.

Anyone interested in helping in any way, be it with materials, labour or funding, should contact Peter Owen on 07961-082264.

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Park road underground station.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid192/p682243693d4cf4b7d2b07ea7346e9793/f1b4da15.jpg
The underground today.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid192/p0acb47dc10ab0ae5a28586c8d5e39b96/f1b4da2a.jpg
I wonder why these stations are not brought back it wouldnt cost too much everything is there and ready.

Tommy, very interesting pics, Martin S would probably be best placed to comment on this, but he's on holiday.

Tommy, very interesting pics, Martin S would probably be best placed to comment on this, but he's on holiday.

The Park Rd. station was the terminus of the long gone "overhead railway" the tunnel was stopped up at Herculanium Dock where the elevated section emerged from the Dingle tunnel, it can still be seen above the Merseyrail Northern Line. The tunnel at Park Rd does run through the station a considerable distance to allow the trains to turn around. I believe this tunnel was used to store cars for a while, but I do not know if it is still being used.

It is isolated from any other rail system ,and as it runs almost parallel with the Nortern Line, I doubt if it could serve any purpose today.

Tommy, very interesting pics, Martin S would probably be best placed to comment on this, but he's on holiday.

Not any longer. I got back from the Big Apple on Tuesday but am still getting over the jet lag.

The station in the pictures is the old Overhead Railway Dingle terminus, which had the widest roof span of any underground station in Britain. As you can see, there was an island platform with the lines joining up beyond the station into a half mile long tunnel that emerges in the cliff above where Greens Health Club is now. You can still see the ornate tunnel portal. A girder bridge carried the LOR over the Cheshire Lines railway (now the Merseyrail Hunts Cross branch) and the line continued northward up Wapping on the LOR viaduct.

It would be difficult to reopen the station as it doesn't connect to anything nowadays. Brunswick Station on Merseyrail does do some of the job that the LOR did but is not central to Dingle.

One of my experiences in New York was standing under the elevated section of a subway route. The noise was continuous and deafening, so I no longer feel so nostalgic about the Liverpool Overhead Railway.

NIMBY! :)

That station looks so cool. I would love to visit it now and see what its like.

We'd love you to as well. How about turning up for our next meet-up Accy. I'll meet you in Southport if you want? :?

Sure, I'd love to. My mummy says I'm old enough to go outside the South Ribble boundaries on my own now. Southport or Liverpool, whichever :)

Park road underground station.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid192/p682243693d4cf4b7d2b07ea7346e9793/f1b4da15.jpg
The underground today.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid192/p0acb47dc10ab0ae5a28586c8d5e39b96/f1b4da2a.jpg
I wonder why these stations are not brought back it wouldnt cost too much everything is there and ready.

I believe this station was called Dingle. It comes from a tunnel from Brunswick but I've no idea where it carries on to. Maybe Martin can shed a light on this?

I just did Gareth (so did Woody - see posts 66 and 67). The old station is still there but used as a car repair workshop now whilst the old tunnel is used for car storage I think.

I just did Gareth (so did Woody - see posts 66 and 67). The old station is still there but used as a car repair workshop now whilst the old tunnel is used for car storage I think.

Ahh, apologies. It was a terminus for the overhead. It's a shame it's not a thru route that could've been incorporated into Merseyrail. Put it this way, a station there would be more appreciated on the whole than St Micheals in my opinion.

So Martin have you got any holiday snaps to show us??

So Martin have you got any holiday snaps to show us??

You'll be sorry you asked this Doug. I think I took about 250 and I am still sorting through them. Give me a day or two and I will start showing Liverpool what we should be aiming for.

Bring 'em on, the more the merrier, any to hand as a small taster?

You go to Los Christianos Martin? :)

You go to Los Christianos Martin? :)

Where's Los Christianos? No, just boring old New York City.

Doug,

O.K. I'll see what I can do. Give me a few minutes though.

Martin, have you any pics of Wall St??

I have a few excellent books on the Overground Railway that also feature that pic of the Dingle underground terminus. There's simply far too many wonderful shots for me to scan in (not enough time), and the author of this whole series of books about Liverpool's Railways is called John Gahan. Martin S may also know about these. Incredibly, I believe his books are still in print, some 23 years later. I have always found it a delicious irony that the Overground railway in Liverpool which predated the Chicago and NY systems that were so subsequently celebrated started not above street level but BELOW it, at this aforementioned terminus.

Martin, have you any pics of Wall St??

Just one and that's a lot of bull.

I'll revive the Liverpool and NYC thread to post these pics as it doesn't really seem appropriate for the Liverpool Underground thread.

Again for those that have not seen this: Liverpool - Underground Railways (http://www.scouseology.com/railways.php)

Very interesting reading. Its cool that there are so many tunnels under Liverpool. We've got a few in Preston, but not that many.
Any piccies of the underground stations?

Again for those that have not seen this: Liverpool - Underground Railways (http://www.scouseology.com/railways.php)

Moorfields Station with separate platforms on the Loop and link lines has a tunnel connecting it to the business district around Old Hall Street.

It also has a commemorative plaque to Vivien Hughes (1909-1994, a civil engineer who played a major part in the development of Liverpool's Underground Railway system and who was born and died within sight and sound of the railway.

What a guy!

:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Here's a few pics of the construction of the stations taken from the aforementioned "Story Of Merseyrail" pamphlet that i got in 1978.

Just north of Moorfields:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c8/Basher65/Doscoboreholes.jpg

Central Low-level undergoing a complete rebuild using the "cut and cover" method:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c8/Basher65/Centraluc.jpg

Some underground construction shots:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c8/Basher65/Stationsuc.jpg

Paradise Junction below Church Street. The line to the left is the old Mersey Railway to James Street where a physical connection with the Wirral Line is obtained from here. The two tubes ahead run to Moorfields. We are looking northwards as if pulling out from Central Low Level (the original Wirral terminus now taken over by the Northern Link Lines)

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c8/Basher65/ParadiseJunc.jpg


The front cover of the A4 24page pamphlet:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c8/Basher65/Merseyrailcover.jpg

I agree that underground lines are very expensive but I hope that we never give up on the Edge Hill Spur, which would allow through electric services from St Helens, Huyton and Broad Green into Moorfields and Central. All the junction tunnels for this line have been built and all is required is a section of twin single track tunnels from around the area of the Chinese Arch to the Victoria Tunnel near Edge Hill with probably one underground station to serve the University.

An even cheaper version of this scheme would make use of the Wapping Tunnel, require shorter new tunnels and may even allow the reopening of the old Cavendish Cutting station where the Liverpool and Manchester Railway started.

The overall scheme would involve electrification from St Helens to Edge Hill, new tunnels, one new underground station and new, or refurbished rolling stock. I suspect the cost would be around £2-3 hundred million but would complete the Merseyrail network, make more efficient use of rolling stock and allow through journeys across the conurbation.


In fact, I remember reading that the cost of the additional works, which included the Edge Hill Spur, the Outer Rail Loop and electrification out to Hough Green, Wrexham and Wigan would only represent 10% of the cost of what had been achieved by the Loop and Link scheme.
Obviously a lot more now - but congestion, global warming etc are not going to go away so what is politically difficult now may be common sense in ten or twenty years time.


Funnily enough I have found this old leaflet (that I mentioned in the Liverpool Underground thread the other day) about the construction of Merseyrail (carefully unearthed from my various rail leaflet archives kept from the mid-70s whilst having a search this weekend at my parents loft) and the map at the back is VERY interesting - if only for the additional extensions that were mooted at the time - including the Wapping Tunnels and extension of the NORTHERN line to take in the Edge Hill, Warrington, Gateacre loop and Linacre Road lines....how ambitious was this proposal to expand the network then?

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c8/Basher65/Merseyrail-01.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c8/Basher65/Merseyrail-023.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c8/Basher65/Merseyrail-04.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c8/Basher65/Merseyrail-05.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c8/Basher65/Merseyrail-06.jpg

Cheers for that, Martin G. That old Merseyside Transport logo takes me back to my childhood and those green & cream double-decker buses. :cheers:

The old days were the best mate. :yes:

Modern life is just fuckin' rubbish.

I want a time machine so fucking bad.

To take me out of this dimension forever more.

The old days were the best mate. :yes:

Modern life is just fuckin' rubbish.

I want a time machine so fucking bad.

To take me out of this dimension forever more.

Buses should be green.

Phone boxes should be red.

Traffic lights should have black & white stripey poles

Police should stop crime

Children should be obedient.

We've fucked it all up though. :(

Your generation perhaps maybe, but certainly not mine! ;)

Jesus, I knew you were no spring chicken, but I didn't realise you were that old!:omg:

Jesus, I knew you were no spring chicken, but I didn't realise you were that old!:omg:


I am practically TWICE your age, young man. Martin S is about the same as me too - if a tad older even. You weren't even a sperm in your daddy's cumberland curly throughout the whole of the SEVENTIES, let alone the sixties..... so you've no idea what being around then was actually like! ;)

I'm not saying it was utopian (it wasn't) but I dare say life was less pressured, society less materialistic and things in general less unhinged back then than they have been the last couple of decades. Oh - and we had proper seasons too, like Spring, Summer, Autumn and Winter, and yes, Bonfire night, Halloween, Easter and Christmas were indeed things to actually relish and look forward to (cos nobody planned for any of them months in advance) - unlike now.

Great images Martin G- nice one! :cheers:

Martin,
drop dead cracking pics/info mate. Thank you :cheers:

I am practically TWICE your age, young man. Martin S is about the same as me too - if a tad older even. You weren't even a sperm in your daddy's cumberland curly throughout the whole of the SEVENTIES, let alone the sixties..... so you've no idea what being around then was actually like! ;)

Anyone recall Canny Farm in the early 70s? Fooooookin Hell! :)

Anyone recall Canny Farm in the early 70s? Fooooookin Hell! :)

My Dad said it's always been rough as arseholes.

LOL! It must be better now, what with it being called "Stock Bridge Village" :cheers:

is there any investment in the liverpool underground? there definately should be its crumbling away, and its so unique that we have it, and its something that most cities dream of. surely it wouldn't be too costly refurbishing the platforms.

I think the underground should be sold off to Virgin or some other company that will acutally bother to renovate it. Who owns the stations at the moment- Merseyrail or the municipality?

It's a shame they can't fill in some of the gaps in the network- then so many more people would use it and this would justify spending on the stations, etc.

good point, merseyrail is ripe for development, we only have to look at London to see how a good underground/suburban network can help a city to thrive and grow.

...or Glasgow :)

i'd love to go backstage at the underground stations, especially james street, i've always wanted to go on the platform thats got all that weird art on the wall (anyone know what its actually of btw?) and the bridges that cross from platform to platform, all the old stairways, its an amazing part of the city

The underground stations are presently owned by Network Rail and let to Merseyrail Electrics. In the future, Merseyrail Electrics may well take over ownership and maintenance of the infrastructure including the track, signals and stations.

I think that last weeks derailment, which looks to be due to a track fault will, if anything hasten the process. There are bound to be huge claims by both Merseytravel and Merseyrail Electrics against Network Rail.

By the way, you should see the condition of some stations on the New York subway, they look like they were last modernised before the Wall Street crash.

I am practically TWICE your age, young man. Martin S is about the same as me too - if a tad older even. You weren't even a sperm in your daddy's cumberland curly throughout the whole of the SEVENTIES, let alone the sixties..... so you've no idea what being around then was actually like! ;)

I'm not saying it was utopian (it wasn't) but I dare say life was less pressured, society less materialistic and things in general less unhinged back then than they have been the last couple of decades. Oh - and we had proper seasons too, like Spring, Summer, Autumn and Winter, and yes, Bonfire night, Halloween, Easter and Christmas were indeed things to actually relish and look forward to (cos nobody planned for any of them months in advance) - unlike now.

Martin, Thanks for pointing out my advanced fogeydom. :bash: I do feel nostalgia for the 60s and 70s and I have to agree that many things have changed for the worse since then. All the same, I well remember that the older people in those days were continually complaining about the behaviour of the young people (this was the era of long hair, hippies, skinheads, LSD etc).

A friend of mine, back in the 70s, said that if people complain about how things are today, what they forget is that the 70s are like they are because the 40s and 50s were like they were. So, however good the past was, don't forget that it contained the seeds of the present.

It just makes me sad to dwell on the past, I'm more interested in what is happening now.

i'd love to go backstage at the underground stations, especially james street, i've always wanted to go on the platform thats got all that weird art on the wall (anyone know what its actually of btw?) and the bridges that cross from platform to platform, all the old stairways, its an amazing part of the city

I was lucky enough to do an audit on the underground stations at the beginning of the year - i took literally hundreds of photos of the station's interiors - unfortunately the photos were stored on my computer at work (ive since left the company) and thus those photos will never ever appear on skyscrapercity.....

James Street was an interesting one as i've never noticed that there is an entrance and long tunnel on Tittybarn Street... i used to walk passed it every day as well!!

The station that was particularly impressive was hamiliton square. There's an even longer tunnel leading from the lower level all the way up to the pavement on Shore Road. Its about 1/3 mile long and very steep. Its only ever used in the event of emergencies.

i wish i was there in an emergency

Martin, Thanks for pointing out my advanced fogeydom. :bash: I do feel nostalgia for the 60s and 70s and I have to agree that many things have changed for the worse since then. All the same, I well remember that the older people in those days were continually complaining about the behaviour of the young people (this was the era of long hair, hippies, skinheads, LSD etc).

A friend of mine, back in the 70s, said that if people complain about how things are today, what they forget is that the 70s are like they are because the 40s and 50s were like they were. So, however good the past was, don't forget that it contained the seeds of the present.

It just makes me sad to dwell on the past, I'm more interested in what is happening now.
Nothing much has changed since the late 60s/early 70s Martin. The working class skins of that age embraced black music and naturally mixed with other cultures and their music, especially soul/reggae. The middle class long haired 6th Formers of the day were total Nazis

"James Street was an interesting one as i've never noticed that there is an entrance and long tunnel on Tittybarn Street... i used to walk passed it every day as well!!"

Not seen the Hamilton Sq one but I can remember walking up the exit from James St when the lifts packed up when I was a kid.

When I used to go use the Wirral line a lot I remember there was an underground station soon after the central loop that looked really haunted.- I can't remember what it was called- I think it might have had 'Green' in the name. It looked really spooky- like from an old time ghost film. I've always thought that would be a good place to do tours of Liverpool ghost stories or something.

Green Lane

Green Lane

Nope!

Not `Green Lane` Liverpool.

You sure it wasn`t one side of `James Street` - which isn`t used?

Dooo doooo doooo dooooo dooooo doooo doooooo dooooo :runaway: ........

There IS a "Green Lane" underground station on the Wirral - it's the stop after Birkenhead Central on the Rock Ferry/Hooton Line. It's a weird one as it's below street level and the first station after the train plunges into another tunnel after leaving B'head Central, plus it's very dark and dingy looking with bare stone walls with damp/moss stains all over them and very little furnishings and indeed looks rather spooky and derelict......and then straight after the train leaves it it emerges into daylight once again and runs up a steep incline to pass along a viaduct with a commanding view of the Tranmere docks before arriving at Rock Ferry station. I'm sure that this is the one Blabber is referring to?

I remember it as being between say, Lime St and Birkenhead Park, or maybe B'head Central. Green Lane is the name alright, and your description is correct. It looked really dark and creepy- like an early twentieth century station in New York that has been abandoned- and then subsequently used in the Ghost Busters film. Ok, I'll stop now. :runaway:

No please continue :D

BTW, is Birkenhead Central underground? I know Hamilton Square is, but when driving past Birkenhead Central, I remember thinking that it looked like an underground station...

Yeah, it goes above ground by the time you get to Birkenhead park, I know that much.

I actually use Green Lane every day, and it's a very atmospheric place. It's just as Martin G described it, dark and damp, but it feels like a real old Victorian station (which is what it is!). It's unusual in that it's only half underground - the Chester/Ellesmere Port platform has a high brick barrelled roof but the Liverpool platform is open to the elements. I can't quite work out why, especially as it looks like the roof used to go all the way across. It's also notable for being too short for 6 car trains, and there are illuminated notices saying "DO NOT ALIGHT HERE" in the tunnels. Cue a lot of confusion when 6 cars were being used after the derailment.

The other unusual thing about it is that even though it's below street level, it actually has a viaduct going over the top of it, which I believe used to be a goods line.

And Birkenhead Central is below street level, but it's in a wide cutting, so is open to the elements: the tunnel starts after that station.

The location of Green Lane station in the cutting is a curious one indeed, but the viaduct above it used to be the route of the old Great Western Line to Woodside Station and the Birkenhead Docklands freight branches. The alignment still exists of course, but it's now heavily overgrown due to decades of neglect. This was the Wirral's only "premier" railway line - to Chester and Oxford/Birmingham/London - and at this point (all the way to Rock Ferry station) used to be six to eight tracks wide, but now of course, it's been reduced to a two/four track suburban route with very little indication of its former strategic importance apart from the width of the viaduct on which it runs. Obviously it was in direct competition with the A41 Trunk Road which also starts from Birkenhead and ends up in London (and whose alignment it roughly follows throughout its long trek from here all the way down south).

There is a good reason for why the line south of the station suddenly runs up a steep 1 in 36 incline to join the former main line from Woodside towards Rock Ferry and Hooton / Chester. Green Lane was originally built as a terminal station for the Mersey Railway to Liverpool proper. So it started life as a "dead end" terminus that was below ground level. Eventually it was made into a through station for the benefit of extending the line southwards but in order to do this it had to navigate a steep incline in order to reach the elevated line on viaduct with which it was going to connect. This explains the considerable gradient - the second steepest on the Wirral line after the 1 in 28 gradient that is encountered on the tunnel stretch between Hamilton Square and James Street stations beneath the Mersey. This latter is actually the steepest incline of ALL on the entire Britsh rail network - not many people know that although it can be slightly felt and appreciated when the train runs between these two stops!

Jan 16 2006

By Neil Hodgson, Liverpool Echo (icLiverpool (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/business/news/tm_objectid=16590721%26method=full%26siteid=50061%26headline=shops%2din%2dstore%2don%2dmerseyrail-name_page.html) )


MERSEYRAIL is to open its own chain of convenience stores.

Dubbed 'M to Go' the stores will be the first of their kind in the UK and will vary from kiosks on smaller stations to walk-in stores at larger locations which will also feature a bakery.

On-station stores are commonplace in Holland and Merseyrail, which is part-owned by Dutch Railways, has seconded Dutch experts to help implement M to Go.

A trial will begin this summer at Moorfields' Old Hall Street entrance, Hamilton Square, Maghull and possibly Hooton.

Customers will pay for items at the ticket office and Merseyrail says the shops will create 50% more jobs at stations with an outlet.

Merseyrail customer services director Ingrid van Poelgeest is leading the project and said although they plan to make a "decent return" on their "considerable" investment, the main reason is to improve passenger facilities.

"We have achieved passenger growth and increased levels of passenger satisfaction, but there's one area where we lag behind and that is station ambience.

"It shows an area where we mean to improve and is crying out for better facilities."

She said the shops could transform old "hole in the wall" booking offices into lighter, modern transparent facilities with increased staffing, which increases passenger security.

And she vowed that passengers will not suffer queues due to on-station stores: "First and foremost we are a train operator."

She added: "This is probably the most exciting project I have done so far because it is so new to the UK rail industry. It is something I am quite sure passengers will really like."

Merseyrail has already joined Nisa Today's, the UK-wide convenience store supplier.

And they said the drive also matches transport authority Merseytravel's aim of upgrading the region's train stations.

Will be good news if it means employing more staff at the stations. I've seen this done in hong Kong and it's quite successful. I'm surprised London Underground doesn't have such outlets. I'd like Serco to try and bring the tracks, signals and air rights over it's stations into it's portfolio so we have a bit of continuity on this front. One operator owning all aspects of Merseyrail is surely better then several different companies.

Nice idea, but a crap name! :lol:

James Street to be improved (from the Merseytravel website)

Merseytravel’s plans to transform the face of James Street in Liverpool, including a new bus and rail interchange, are going on public show later this month.

Close to the city’s commercial area and major developments including the Paradise Project, Kings Waterfront and Pier Head/Mann Island, James Street and James Street station are set to undergo major improvements over the next two years.

Proposals for the £1.5 million improvement works, which will be delivered by Merseytravel, Liverpool City Council, Merseyrail and Network Rail, go on display from at Merseytravel’s Head Office in Hatton Garden from 30th January.

Councillor Mark Dowd, Chair of Merseytravel, said: “James Street is already an important interchange and, as the city grows towards 2008 and beyond, it will become even more so.

“The aim of these plans is to improve public transport facilities for everyone using James Street, whether they are visiting, living or working in the city.”

Neil Scales, Chief Executive and Director General of Merseytravel added: “Our aim is for an integrated transport network accessible to all and these plans will help us to achieve that with James Street. We hope they will play an important role in improving access to the commercial and retail heart of the city.”

The plans include widening the footpath outside the station (towards Castle Street) to improve pedestrian access to and from the train station, as well as waiting areas for bus passengers.

A new canopy is planned directly over the station entrance, giving the station more prominence and better weather protection for bus and rail passengers.

Access improvements are planned inside and outside the station including a refurbished booking hall and retail kiosk, a fully accessible toilet, access ramps and steps to the front of the building and automatic doors.

Bus shelters will also be redesigned to blend in with the new station canopy and signing and information will be improved, including large signs at either end of the street.

The public exhibition will be held at Merseytravel’s Head Office, 24 Hatton Garden, Liverpool, from 9am to 4.30pm, Monday to Friday starting on 30th January. It will run until 3rd March.

Experts from Merseytravel and the design team will be on hand to answer questions on Monday 30th and Tuesday 31st January, between 11am and 6pm.

Leaflets will be handed out to bus and rail users and businesses on James Street and the surrounding area.

They will also be available from Merseytravel’s seven Travel Centres, Liverpool Central, Birkenhead Central and Wallasey Central libraries, the 08 Place, Grosvenor’s exhibition suite on Lord Street and Liverpool Direct.

The leaflet:

http://www.merseytravel.gov.uk/articleimages/james%20st.pdf

Though the "canopy" isn't exactly impressive, I'm glad that something is being done to make James Street more of a destination. Just cleaning it would be a start, but improving it inside and out might encourage more people to use Merseyrail to reach city centre destinations - it's literally across the road from the Pier Head! And making the Moor Street alleyway less, well, terrifying would be extremely welcome...

Will the buses have smiley faces on them as part of the project too? :banana:

The canopy is nothing special but does blend in with standard Merseytravel branding. Looks like the station will improve a lot - being a lot better now that that ugly pedestrian footbridge has gone.

I remember James Street before Moor House was built - a single storey concrete building built to replace the original station building that was bombed during the war and which had a hydraulic tower similar to the one on Hamilton Square station.

I like James Street the way it is. Why do they have to keep "improving" things? The new automated lifts are no good though, they should go back to the old system of staffing them. Sometimes I think public transport officials need to be stopped from wasting money (on pointless things) so they can focus their efforts on important things.

I like James Street the way it is. Why do they have to keep "improving" things? The new automated lifts are no good though, they should go back to the old system of staffing them. Sometimes I think public transport officials need to be stopped from wasting money (on pointless things) so they can focus their efforts on important things.


Indeed - that old adage "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" springs to mind.
What I want to know is, why has there never been any decision to install escalators at Liverpool James Street and Birkenhead Hamilton Square stations instead to replace the lifts? Lifts are SO timewasting - waiting for the bloody things to fill and then having stragglers forcing the doors back open again and again (you try commuting on a normal day and tell me that you don't find it a tad aggravating when you're in a rush to get that train which is only a minute away). At least with escalators you can bomb down them at lightning speed like you do at Central, Lime Street and Moorfields stations when you have only seconds to catch your train as you can hear it coming in..... does anybody know the reason why they never toyed with the idea of doing this? I mean, it's not going to happen now judging by the way they've now relinquished control of the lifts to the passengers directly - thus in so doing causing even more of a headache in that stragglers and latecomers have full licence to hold everybody else up. I seldom ever use lifts anyway (and I would rather shin up ten/twenty/thirty flights of steps than take one even in an office tower) as I would hate to be stuck in one that breaks down - claustrophobia is never my strong point.

James Street to be improved (from the Merseytravel website)

Merseytravel’s plans to transform the face of James Street in Liverpool, including a new bus and rail interchange, are going on public show later this month.

Close to the city’s commercial area and major developments including the Paradise Project, Kings Waterfront and Pier Head/Mann Island, James Street and James Street station are set to undergo major improvements over the next two years.

Proposals for the £1.5 million improvement works, which will be delivered by Merseytravel, Liverpool City Council, Merseyrail and Network Rail, go on display from at Merseytravel’s Head Office in Hatton Garden from 30th January.

Councillor Mark Dowd, Chair of Merseytravel, said: “James Street is already an important interchange and, as the city grows towards 2008 and beyond, it will become even more so.

“The aim of these plans is to improve public transport facilities for everyone using James Street, whether they are visiting, living or working in the city.”

Neil Scales, Chief Executive and Director General of Merseytravel added: “Our aim is for an integrated transport network accessible to all and these plans will help us to achieve that with James Street. We hope they will play an important role in improving access to the commercial and retail heart of the city.”

The plans include widening the footpath outside the station (towards Castle Street) to improve pedestrian access to and from the train station, as well as waiting areas for bus passengers.

A new canopy is planned directly over the station entrance, giving the station more prominence and better weather protection for bus and rail passengers.

Access improvements are planned inside and outside the station including a refurbished booking hall and retail kiosk, a fully accessible toilet, access ramps and steps to the front of the building and automatic doors.

Bus shelters will also be redesigned to blend in with the new station canopy and signing and information will be improved, including large signs at either end of the street.

The public exhibition will be held at Merseytravel’s Head Office, 24 Hatton Garden, Liverpool, from 9am to 4.30pm, Monday to Friday starting on 30th January. It will run until 3rd March.

Experts from Merseytravel and the design team will be on hand to answer questions on Monday 30th and Tuesday 31st January, between 11am and 6pm.

Leaflets will be handed out to bus and rail users and businesses on James Street and the surrounding area.

They will also be available from Merseytravel’s seven Travel Centres, Liverpool Central, Birkenhead Central and Wallasey Central libraries, the 08 Place, Grosvenor’s exhibition suite on Lord Street and Liverpool Direct.

The leaflet:

http://www.merseytravel.gov.uk/articleimages/james%20st.pdf

Though the "canopy" isn't exactly impressive, I'm glad that something is being done to make James Street more of a destination. Just cleaning it would be a start, but improving it inside and out might encourage more people to use Merseyrail to reach city centre destinations - it's literally across the road from the Pier Head! And making the Moor Street alleyway less, well, terrifying would be extremely welcome...



Not before time too! Another thing I find inexplicable is the dearth of public toilets at ANY of the major Merseyrail city centre/town centre stations like Birkenhead Hamilton Square, Conway Park, James Street, Moorfields - Central being the only station that has them. This has been the way for years now even after the remaining Hamilton Square ones were barred off and closed. Now none of the other stations on the Wirral Line (save for the termini at West Kirby, Rock Ferry, New Brighton, and Chester) have them at all, any remaining ones (like the ones that my local station at Wallasey Village used to have until about 15 years ago) having long been closed to the public and bricked in. You'd think they'd make some provision for these, bearing in mind the fact that even the Merseyrail trains themselves (despite their recent upgrade and refurbishment) are amongst the few electric multiple units in the country that lack even a toilet on board. What's that all about? Fear of vandalism (that sadly is rife amongst much of the scally Liverpool Merseyrail-travelling contingent) perhaps?

GRRR... Bloody double post due to this fucking bastard forum being so bleeding BASTARD SODDING PISSING C***ING SLOW ALL THE BASTARD TIME!! :bash: :bash: :bash: :rant: :rant: :evil: :evil: What the fuck is wrong with it??

I have tried posting several times recently only to be informed:
You must enter more than two characters! Maybe I'm entering the wrong characters...
Whatever.

I think all the central Liverpool stations could do with a makeover. Arriving at Central should be an unforgettable experience not a mediocre one.

The location of Green Lane station in the cutting is a curious one indeed, but the viaduct above it used to be the route of the old Great Western Line to Woodside Station and the Birkenhead Docklands freight branches. The alignment still exists of course, but it's now heavily overgrown due to decades of neglect. This was the Wirral's only "premier" railway line - to Chester and Oxford/Birmingham/London - and at this point (all the way to Rock Ferry station) used to be six to eight tracks wide, but now of course, it's been reduced to a two/four track suburban route with very little indication of its former strategic importance apart from the width of the viaduct on which it runs. Obviously it was in direct competition with the A41 Trunk Road which also starts from Birkenhead and ends up in London (and whose alignment it roughly follows throughout its long trek from here all the way down south).

There is a good reason for why the line south of the station suddenly runs up a steep 1 in 36 incline to join the former main line from Woodside towards Rock Ferry and Hooton / Chester. Green Lane was originally built as a terminal station for the Mersey Railway to Liverpool proper. So it started life as a "dead end" terminus that was below ground level. Eventually it was made into a through station for the benefit of extending the line southwards but in order to do this it had to navigate a steep incline in order to reach the elevated line on viaduct with which it was going to connect. This explains the considerable gradient - the second steepest on the Wirral line after the 1 in 28 gradient that is encountered on the tunnel stretch between Hamilton Square and James Street stations beneath the Mersey. This latter is actually the steepest incline of ALL on the entire Britsh rail network - not many people know that although it can be slightly felt and appreciated when the train runs between these two stops!


I beleive that if you drive out of Queensway tunnel at the Birkenhead end and take the flyover towards Borough rd you can see where this disused line would of gone underground on it's way to Woodside - there's a big wedge of derelict land opposite the Ford garage and there's two ovrgrown tunnell entrances. I've always wanted to explore under there but I suspect that they'll be blocked up!

Not before time too! Another thing I find inexplicable is the dearth of public toilets at ANY of the major Merseyrail city centre/town centre stations like Birkenhead Hamilton Square, Conway Park, James Street, Moorfields - Central being the only station that has them. This has been the way for years now even after the remaining Hamilton Square ones were barred off and closed. Now none of the other stations on the Wirral Line (save for the termini at West Kirby, Rock Ferry, New Brighton, and Chester) have them at all, any remaining ones (like the ones that my local station at Wallasey Village used to have until about 15 years ago) having long been closed to the public and bricked in. You'd think they'd make some provision for these, bearing in mind the fact that even the Merseyrail trains themselves (despite their recent upgrade and refurbishment) are amongst the few electric multiple units in the country that lack even a toilet on board. What's that all about? Fear of vandalism (that sadly is rife amongst much of the scally Liverpool Merseyrail-travelling contingent) perhaps?

There are toilets between the Northern Line platforms at Moorfields; however, as these are beyond the ticket line they're perhaps less useful than they could be (if you're caught short waiting for a Wirral train you've got a hell of a trek!). I don't think the lack of toilets is due to fears of vandalism so much as fears of drug taking; Moorfields, Central & Southport all have toilets with ultra-violet lighting to stop bagheads from seeing their veins, so it's like peeing in the Tardis. Modern Railways' recent article about Merseyrail also said that a recent customer survey came out with an overwhelming number of passengers requesting toilets on the trains, which took them by surprise; it's something they're now looking at incorporating in the next generation fleet.

With the refurbished James Street (and a refurbished Central on the cards as well) I'd like to see a resumption of those posters that Merseyrail had years ago for places like Chester and Ormskirk, only for the city centre. It'd be great to have a "See it with Merseyrail" type campaign - James Street for the Pier Head, Moorfields for the business district, Lime Street for the museums, Central for the shops: the stations are such an asset to the city centre, and well placed, but you only ever see people piling off at Central! I'd also like to see the refurbishment of James Street extend to the abandoned platform down below, which currently skulks in the darkness - something like London Underground's "Platform for Art" exhibitions at Gloucester Road (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/arts/platform-for-art/default.asp) would be interesting, an attraction in its own right, and tie in with the Capital of Culture.

From jetsetwilly:
I'd also like to see the refurbishment of James Street extend to the abandoned platform down below, which currently skulks in the darkness - something like London Underground's "Platform for Art" exhibitions at Gloucester Road (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/arts/pla...art/default.asp) would be interesting, an attraction in its own right, and tie in with the Capital of Culture.

Excellent idea!

I like James Street the way it is. Why do they have to keep "improving" things? The new automated lifts are no good though, they should go back to the old system of staffing them. Sometimes I think public transport officials need to be stopped from wasting money (on pointless things) so they can focus their efforts on important things.

James street station entrance is a bloody mess. It is like a damp fag end.

clean, efficient design and staff who pay attention is all that is required.

Oh and decent lifts or better still escalators as previously mentioned.

it is, it needs a total renovation

It does need toal renovation, and I would remame it, Waterfront or Maritime.

oops, double post..

We went on the Merseyrail train today from Hamilton Square to Lime Street and back again. I just wanted to show it to my family after using it at the November meetup! I loved it again!

Did you check out Hamilton Square itself, Accy? The finest public square in the north of England. I love the Eleanor Cross-like war memorial in the square's gardens.

I think that Exchange Flags is one of the finest urban squares anywhere in the world... which makes it's current situation of being empty... and the squatre completely unanimated (though the sandwich bar bought lots of 30s' style tables and chairs to put outside... but guess who said they were not 'appropriate'... even more of a sin.

Did you check out Hamilton Square itself, Accy? The finest public square in the north of England. I love the Eleanor Cross-like war memorial in the square's gardens.
Yes, beautful. Underated and underused. Its a pity its not in central Liverpool. It would make an ideal public space somewhere in the CBD.

Yes, beautful. Underated and underused. Its a pity its not in central Liverpool. It would make an ideal public space somewhere in the CBD.

That's Wirral for you. Honestly, if you think Liverpool's a crackpot council, you'll just love WMBC!

Yes, beautful. Underated and underused. Its a pity its not in central Liverpool. It would make an ideal public space somewhere in the CBD.

But then again, look at Exchange Flags, as Tony mentioned. I don't think Hamilton Sqaure would fair much better in Liverpool, if better at all. Let's face it, at least the buildings are clean, unlike our town hall. :no:

One of the train drivers the other day on the wirral line told me that the underground loop line in liverpool will shut down in the summer for 6-8 weeks! after the grand national for re tracking work.

Yup - was mentioned last week in the local press.

It can only get more `stressed` as more peeps use it .....

But will they listen or will it be down sized and no investment made?

Lets hope they take this opportunity to refurbish all the stations on the Wirral Line loop (basically all the stations in the city centre)

Spot on Gareth... both points.
I remember reading some fantastic stuff on this site about the city's transport infrastructure... one of the actions of this new group could be to put a paper together bringing them all together (including conflicting ideas?) for public consumption?

positive stuff for the futre and real rationale (which I am afraid the tram project never included) for future developments merseytravel may pursue.

Here's Dingle station as it is today...

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c19/Waterfront36/dinglestation.jpg

Image courtesy of this fine site...

http://disused-stations.org.uk/
Disused Stations In The UK

This space should be a hive of activity with bars and and Kardomah Coffee shops right around the ground floor!! it always was a popular place in the summer lunchtime, a great place to see fab looking girls!!

All the more shameful that LCC hasn't yet dealt with perhaps one of it's most troublesome developers!! I wonder how much longer we have to put up with Bill.


http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/6635/dsc014744bl.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/6443/dsc014753go.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Leaving aside the fact that he`s widely held or considered to be an opportunistic jerk.

LCC turned down a request a few years ago to part cover / glaze `Exchange Flags` in order to allow a more continetal use of the flags from the above mentioned building/s.

Sitting on the steps in the N.E corner, looking toward town hall, martins bank and the west side of Exchange flags bdg is the best architectural view... you can see thaat 'world class' is not scouse hyperbole.

The place used to be so busy that when I was a kid I could sag off school all day there... a kid in a stupid school uniform being jst a tiny bit of the tide of humanity... sounds nuts that now when you see it totally deserted all day.

and the girls... bloody hell - Actually... just remembered this. In the late 70s' early 80s' Granada had this really crap shows that used to broadcast from their around lunchtime and I knew one of the girls they picked out to put on the opening credits... wow... a blast from the past!

Then the city died and Bill bought the building

Whilst I actually like the open urban nature of Exchange Flags - Square and Buildings (monolithic) I would support a high quality and sympathetic makeover.

The flags themselves where going to be `softened` with additional planting(?) some years ago (European type Square) but that didn`t happen and as previously mentioned previous plans have been suggested to try to open up the lower floors to retail, bars and resturants ..... again didn`t happen.

Sadly `kill development stone dead bill` doesn`t ever seem to be able to deliver.

With the right developer (as against land grabber) the place could be transformed very sympathetically at ground, first and second floor levels - with additional vantage points from which to over look the `flags` and even `Tithebarn Street` (There is very little architectural merit on the `Tithebarn Street` facade that couldn`t be improved and lightened.)(Currently very ponderous.....and bleak.)

The building is almost `a hill in the city centre` - and it has various roof steps and corners that could be transformed and utilised for various developments, apartments, bars and resturants, boutique hotels fed by internal lobbies through a ground floor mall.

Imagine the balconies, lit, greened and active and within the splendour of the location ..... and the value.

It could be the hottest property downtown.....

Just about handy for everything.

And I believe there is quite a bit below ground under the flags too!

:) :cheers:

This is my idea ..... by the way! :)

The Nelson memorial is now basically the main ventilation outlet for the massive underground car park below the square... and of course, there are the many lower floors.... the ones that hold the atlantic approaches centre and the strong rooms used to famousely house the nations bullion before being moved across to Canada for the duration of WWII.

If there IS such a thing as a hub downtown then it is this square

anybody know how to get in here??? Scouserdave??? Are you receiving me??

It remarkable in city that's crying out for large scale modern office facilities and hotels, with a healthy residential market and booming food/drink retail sector and scope for commercial gallery space that this place has remained undeveloped and under used.

Did I say remarkable? I meant scandelous.

It remarkable in city that's crying out for large scale modern office facilities and hotels, with a healthy residential market and booming food/drink retail sector and scope for commercial gallery space that this place has remained undeveloped and under used.

Did I say remarkable? I meant scandelous.

That's capitalism for you! (Well, Walton Group capitalism). It's about getting the best return on an investment. Sometimes sitting tight waiting to be bought out at a grossly inflated price is what it's all about.

That's speculation and an abuse of tax laws. Maybe the tax man should tax the building at market rate supposing 50% occupancy rather than allowing the asset to post a 'loss'?

Here's Dingle station as it is today...

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c19/Waterfront36/dinglestation.jpg

Image courtesy of this fine site...

http://disused-stations.org.uk/
Disused Stations In The UK

^^ :eek:

Fucking WOW!! I never knew that it still looked vaguely recogniseable as a former station tunnel! I'd better get myself down there next time I'm in the area to try and have a probe around to get some pix - that is fascinating!

One of the train drivers the other day on the wirral line told me that the underground loop line in liverpool will shut down in the summer for 6-8 weeks! after the grand national for re tracking work.



We knew about this a while ago. There is uproar on the Wirral side as this seems to have coincided with the Royal Liverpool Golf Championships tournament at Hoylake whereby thousands of spectators are expected to flood to the west side of the Wirral - meaning train frequencies on this West Kirby line are set to double to cater for the influx of visitors, so they couldn't have picked a better time to close down the Loop and cause some degree of inconvenience then have they? :no:

It means us right bankers have to get to James Street to access the Wirral. It's not too bad though as most buses pass James Street, at least those that go around my way. The closure is more likely going to affect left bankers who will not have convenient access to the main shopping area without a brisk walk.

I beleive that if you drive out of Queensway tunnel at the Birkenhead end and take the flyover towards Borough rd you can see where this disused line would of gone underground on it's way to Woodside - there's a big wedge of derelict land opposite the Ford garage and there's two ovrgrown tunnell entrances. I've always wanted to explore under there but I suspect that they'll be blocked up!

Forgot all about this thread since the last time I posted here - but you're right about being able to see the old tracks of the former Birkenhead-London GWR route from the Borough Road flyover (one of only TWO links that still remain of the old Birkenhead Tunnel Approach Roads that they have recently started to dismantle). These redundant tracks indeed lead to the old Woodside site but more likely the tracks we see are remnants of the old freight/goods lines that passed beneath Argyle Street towards the docks - the tracks diverge somewhere beneath the flyover roads with the Woodside-bound fork of the alignment long having succumbed to nature and dereliction.... I have never been down there to take a proper look for myself all this time though - I guess it's out of bounds anyway.

It means us right bankers have to get to James Street to access the Wirral. It's not too bad though as most buses pass James Street, at least those that go around my way. The closure is more likely going to affect left bankers who will not have convenient access to the main shopping area without a brisk walk.



I always use James Street anyway whenever I travel to the 'Pool from the Wirral - that's where I get off as I like the walk from there either to the Pier Head or down Lord Street towards the shopping area. I hate (and usually always avoid) getting off at Central cos it's completely overrun with scally filth and Lime Street is too busy as well anyway - James Street is just right for me. Even when I arrive in Liverpool from Manchester I usually don't join the underground to Walllasey at Lime Street or Central - I prefer the leisurely walk through the city streets to catch the train at James Street. Call me mad but I don't care..... Effectively the forthcoming Loop closure really seems to have very little effect on me personally as I usually walk everywhere anyway and an extra 10 minutes or a mile does me no harm - but I can see why others / less able-bodied sorts would get in a lather about it so I can fully appreciate their worries.

The thing many people don't realise is that Liverpool City Centre is not very large or spread out at all and is amazingly compact - unlike, say Manchester's - which has two extended arms leading due south and west.

There are toilets between the Northern Line platforms at Moorfields; however, as these are beyond the ticket line they're perhaps less useful than they could be (if you're caught short waiting for a Wirral train you've got a hell of a trek!). I don't think the lack of toilets is due to fears of vandalism so much as fears of drug taking; Moorfields, Central & Southport all have toilets with ultra-violet lighting to stop bagheads from seeing their veins, so it's like peeing in the Tardis. Modern Railways' recent article about Merseyrail also said that a recent customer survey came out with an overwhelming number of passengers requesting toilets on the trains, which took them by surprise; it's something they're now looking at incorporating in the next generation fleet.

My only other anxiety about the provision of toilets anywhere on the Merseyrail system is that - by national standards - a fair proportion of Liverpool/Merseysiders seem to be a right filthy bunch of bastards - as generally speaking, toilets at coach/rail/bus stations/shopping malls in this area are always invariably in a far more disgusting state comparatively speaking than those in rival cities like Manchester or Brum...and this is something spoken from observation, having seen the state of them generally across the city in public places such as the aforementioned. Having them on new train fleets may invite more trouble than it's worth as the loathsome scally scumbags who frequent the Merseyrail Electrics on practically every journey in whatever direction you care to head out in will invariably have them turned over in no time. Again I speak from experience as no other place do I encounter such a high abundance of mingers like these defiling all our trains, not even when travelling around similarly scally-ridden places around Manchester on their crummy two-car diesels. Therein lies the greatest paradox : Merseyrail boasts one of the best and most reliable/punctual suburban rail networks in the UK but then you have to share it with probably the largest proportion of scallies/townie scum who use it as well. I really can't think of any other city in the country that has such a high ratio at any rate.


With the refurbished James Street (and a refurbished Central on the cards as well) I'd like to see a resumption of those posters that Merseyrail had years ago for places like Chester and Ormskirk, only for the city centre. It'd be great to have a "See it with Merseyrail" type campaign - James Street for the Pier Head, Moorfields for the business district, Lime Street for the museums, Central for the shops: the stations are such an asset to the city centre, and well placed, but you only ever see people piling off at Central! I'd also like to see the refurbishment of James Street extend to the abandoned platform down below, which currently skulks in the darkness - something like London Underground's "Platform for Art" exhibitions at Gloucester Road (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/arts/platform-for-art/default.asp) would be interesting, an attraction in its own right, and tie in with the Capital of Culture.


That's a brilliant suggestion - that side of the station DOES need some serious brightening up as it's been stuck in that damp 1950s timewarp for ages now and makes for very strange experience whenever one stands on the opposite platform waiting for a Wirral bound train - it almost makes you think that at any given point some people will appear, ghostlike, dressed in period costume and suddenly you're transported back into some bygone era - this sort of thing has happened in the past - most incredibly several times in recent years on Bold Street.

Who was it who said that writing about shit usually results in verbal diarrhoea?

generally speaking, toilets at coach/rail/bus stations/shopping malls in this area are always invariably in a far more disgusting state comparatively speaking than those in rival cities like Manchester or Brum

Oh dear,

SSC's favourite ranting nut case has arrived to gift us with his lengthy scripts of mildly amusing nonsense. :cheers:

I think the state of some (-have you done a tour of all public toilets in the UK's major cities?) public latrines is as much, if not more, due to maintenance rather than the capabilities of those using them. I'm not sure who owns those in the Underground system but they need a fucking kick in the arse to make them run their shop a bit better. Also, I think the shitty council might run some such conveniences and so things inevitably end being of a poor standard (-I believe the latrines in Manchester tend to be more privately run and people have to pay to use them- so there are issues about social equity too.) Personally, I think it is better to make people pay and have things in a better condition- this country just cannot run public services like this to a high standard, so it's not bloody worth it.

Other than the service, (arguably the most important thing) the Liverpool underground is a right mess- it looks dirty, dated and unsafe. Any visitor to the city could rightly feel in danger if they walked through that horrid, gloomy subway between Lime St and St Georges.

On the other hand, some of us like the grittier side of things. It doesn't bother me, personally, that they don't have girly, shiny tiles with little reflective chrome bits on. Would be nice mind. If the city doesn't sort out these very basic facilities (e.g. toilets) by 2008 then there is going to be a lot of bad things written. Many Europeans expect high quality in such services as a matter of course.- these things are just expected to go without saying. :toilet:

:cheers:

I actually think Martin G is correct about toilets on Merseyrail no being a good idea. They'd probably end up completely minging, as peronal experience on national trains and coaches would suggest. Most people aren't actually on the train for much longer than 20 minutes anyway as it's a local mass transit system. What they should do is think about incorporating toilets into more stations. The only station I can think of at the top of my had with regards to toilet facilities is Central, though I suppose you could say Lime Street too, if you want to include the main ground level concourse.

Who was it who said that writing about shit usually results in verbal diarrhoea?

^^

Er....... you perhaps?

:| :stupid: :baaa:

Oh dear,



SSC's favourite ranting nut case has arrived to gift us with his lengthy scripts of mildly amusing nonsense. :cheers:



I think the state of some (-have you done a tour of all public toilets in the UK's major cities?) public latrines is as much, if not more, due to maintenance rather than the capabilities of those using them. I'm not sure who owns those in the Underground system but they need a fucking kick in the arse to make them run their shop a bit better. Also, I think the shitty council might run some such conveniences and so things inevitably end being of a poor standard (-I believe the latrines in Manchester tend to be more privately run and people have to pay to use them- so there are issues about social equity too.) Personally, I think it is better to make people pay and have things in a better condition- this country just cannot run public services like this to a high standard, so it's not bloody worth it.







Blabber'n'shite, you may well have a better knowledge of London's latrines than I do but of course my assumptions are wholly based on what I have seen from daily experience in my immediate locality and then a random comparison made with other cities like Manchester.....but, really, have you SEEN the state of some of the public conveniences that are on offer in Liverpool - like, in the shopping centres (excepting the main central one at St Johns and not counting poncey designer malls etc), rail stations and bus terminals? Especially those that aren't maintained by an attendant which you pay? Maybe when the 2008 culture year arrives they might just start overhauling them ALL and charging admission like they do in London, Manchester and some other select major UK cities. But as it stands, they are generally not a pretty sight cleanliness-wise so don't fucking accuse me of writing nonsense when I actually come from the city and know what I'm talking about and you probably live down south and wouldn't be aware of this fact anyway.......and I particularly take great offence to being called a "resident forum nutcase" as well, just cos, y'know, it's soeasy to jump on the bandwagon and resort to lazy dismissive stereotyping of a few forumers who have a certain writing style, based on how others have tended to respond to my contributions, isn't it??......



Now stop it cos it isn't being fucking fair.. :|

Who was it who said, 'If the cap fits ...' ?

It certainly wasn't me.

Blabber'n'shite, .....but, really, have you SEEN the state of some of the public conveniences that are on offer in Liverpool - like, in the shopping centres (excepting the main central one at St Johns and not counting poncey designer malls etc), rail stations and bus terminals? Especially those that aren't maintained by an attendant which you pay? Maybe when the 2008 culture year arrives they might just start overhauling them ALL and charging admission like they do in London, Manchester and some other select major UK cities. But as it stands, they are generally not a pretty sight cleanliness-wise so don't fucking accuse me of writing nonsense when I actually come from the city and know what I'm talking about and you probably live down south and wouldn't be aware of this fact anyway.......and I particularly take great offence to being called a "resident forum nutcase" as well, just cos, y'know, it's soeasy to jump on the bandwagon and resort to lazy dismissive stereotyping of a few forumers who have a certain writing style, based on how others have tended to respond to my contributions, isn't it??......

Now stop it cos it isn't being fucking fair.. :|

Bloody hell, I was only joking.

Anyway- I agreed with what you said about latrines. It might be to do with ownership and a commitment on the part of those in charge of them (rather than your claim that the people of the area are more filthy and less capable of using toilets than in other areas.)
I really do wish people would read posts properly.

I think there needs to be some kind of drive in the city to improve very basic amenities like this. Poor standards just aren't acceptable in these places, neither in the developed world, nor in the twenty first century. These basics are far more important IMO than sculptures and fountains.

If your hobby and survey of toilets is accurate then it is only another grim detail that will greet national and international visitors staring at the chewy covered floor.

Who was it who said, 'If the cap fits ...' ?

It certainly wasn't me.


Maybe if you inserted a letter "r" into that then it would have been more appropriate, no one likes a smart alec who tries to impress or patronise by throwing around oft-used clichéd phrases like you do in an attempt to try and be clever.

I also notice that you don't have your Private Message facility enabled here - or the email link either - that perhaps tells me a lot about the fact that you may gleefully dish it out to others on the forum here with your one liners but don't like to take it back. Perhaps you would like to explain yourself here in public then - or read the reply I posted to Blabbernsmoke below. After all, you haven't been here that long, have you, so who are you?

Bloody hell, I was only joking.

Anyway- I agreed with what you said about latrines. It might be to do with ownership and a commitment on the part of those in charge of them (rather than your claim that the people of the area are more filthy and less capable of using toilets than in other areas.)
I really do wish people would read posts properly.

I think there needs to be some kind of drive in the city to improve very basic amenities like this. Poor standards just aren't acceptable in these places, neither in the developed world, nor in the twenty first century. These basics are far more important IMO than sculptures and fountains.

If your hobby and survey of toilets is accurate then it is only another grim detail that will greet national and international visitors staring at the chewy covered floor.



To be honest with you Blabb, I really am getting a tad fed up and fucked off of having to see virtually every one of my more verbose replies on ANY fucking thread on the forum met with - and indeed counterpointed by - predictably smart alec / sarcastic / flaming / accusatory quips and retorts (like those from Fitzroy above) and even personal digs at myself, and I really do feel as if I am becoming the biggest victim of such repeatedly unfair treatment - purely cos I appear to have this reputation as a bit of a ranter and I speak my mind and am frank and forthright in my opinions, observations and whatever else (as if, wow hold the front page, I am the only person in the UK who, like, rants).... and many others perceive that to be some sort of threat to their cosy complacently cocooned existence or whatever the fuck it might be - which possibly goads them into having a go at me for whatever spurious reason they might have, or maybe they might fancy themselves as a bit of a jester in their oh-so-casual put-downs of my contributions.... And because of this I am seriously close to quitting this forum in disgust, along with maybe three other reasons (most notably the fucking slowness of the bastard server each time I am on here - and this latter problem is something I'm sure lots of other people have noticed as well, but nothing seems to have changed and the place has gotten slower and slower over time.) that I won't go into here. Believe me, I think I've got a fair few of them all sussed by saying this.

Honestly, I don't know what it is I have done to keep meeting with such hostility or downright rudeness from other people here - it's not as if I have ever openly flamed anyone for THEIR comments, no matter how misguided or certainlyopinionated they may be. It's something I NEVER ever do through sheer courtesy and restraint - unless, of course, someone does it to me first, and then I give as good as I get in my defence. I hope I have made my points very saliently here.

Oh poo :runaway:

Actually if you took my mother any where she judged them by their toilets.

No matter how poor or how smart or swanky.......Pubs, resturants, hotels etc.

Absolutely euphoric if they where nice......"Oh you should see..."

:) :cheers:

To be honest with you Blabb, I really am getting a tad fed up and fucked off of having to see virtually every one of my more verbose replies on ANY fucking thread on the forum met with - and indeed counterpointed by - predictably smart alec / sarcastic / flaming / accusatory quips and retorts (like those from Fitzroy above) and even personal digs at myself, and I really do feel as if I am becoming the biggest victim of such repeatedly unfair treatment - purely cos I appear to have this reputation as a bit of a ranter and I speak my mind and am frank and forthright in my opinions, observations and whatever else (as if, wow hold the front page, I am the only person in the UK who, like, rants).... and many others perceive that to be some sort of threat to their cosy complacently cocooned existence or whatever the fuck it might be - which possibly goads them into having a go at me for whatever spurious reason they might have, or maybe they might fancy themselves as a bit of a jester in their oh-so-casual put-downs of my contributions.... And because of this I am seriously close to quitting this forum in disgust, along with maybe three other reasons (most notably the fucking slowness of the bastard server each time I am on here - and this latter problem is something I'm sure lots of other people have noticed as well, but nothing seems to have changed and the place has gotten slower and slower over time.) that I won't go into here. Believe me, I think I've got a fair few of them all sussed by saying this.

Honestly, I don't know what it is I have done to keep meeting with such hostility or downright rudeness from other people here - it's not as if I have ever openly flamed anyone for THEIR comments, no matter how misguided or certainlyopinionated they may be. It's something I NEVER ever do through sheer courtesy and restraint - unless, of course, someone does it to me first, and then I give as good as I get in my defence. I hope I have made my points very saliently here.

The more you say...

the more you give yourself away.


(OMG not another cliché)

:jk:

Apologies for that Martin!

On a more serious note, I just took exception to your description of Liverpool’s inhabitants as:

‘…by national standards - a fair proportion of Liverpool/Merseysiders seem to be a right filthy bunch of bastards - as generally speaking, toilets at coach/rail/bus stations/shopping malls in this area are always invariably in a far more disgusting state comparatively speaking than those in rival cities like Manchester or Brum...and this is something spoken from observation, having seen the state of them generally across the city in public places such as the aforementioned. Having them on new train fleets may invite more trouble than it's worth as the loathsome scally scumbags who frequent the Merseyrail Electrics on practically every journey in whatever direction you care to head out in will invariably have them turned over in no time. Again I speak from experience as no other place do I encounter such a high abundance of mingers like these defiling all our trains, not even when travelling around similarly scally-ridden places around Manchester on their crummy two-car diesels. Therein lies the greatest paradox : Merseyrail boasts one of the best and most reliable/punctual suburban rail networks in the UK but then you have to share it with probably the largest proportion of scallies/townie scum who use it as well. I really can't think of any other city in the country that has such a high ratio at any rate.’

And your assertion:

‘so don't fucking accuse me of writing nonsense when I actually come from the city and know what I'm talking about…’

Didn’t really work for me either. Probably because I’m always coming across ex-pat scousers who trade in running the city and its inhabitants down. I’m not sure what this is about. Maybe it’s a Liverpool thing and I just don’t get it. It no doubt serves a function. Whatever it’s about, I don’t care to hear it and respond accordingly.

Regrettably, I have a weakness for one-liners…

and clichés.

^^

I know what you're saying there, but I guess it's not just a proportion of [ex-pat] Liverpudlians who tend to be self-effacing/modest and do their city down in conversation (I suppose that makes a change, though, from forever trumpeting its virtues at every level to the point of nausea - see Mancunians for that one: this said from someone who has lived in the south of the city for the last 18 years and can fully see how much misplaced arrogance continues to prevail! :) ), but, arguably more than any other major city, many Brummies are particularly self-deprecating and would be the last people to big up their own place, even though there ARE many good things about it likewise (again I can empathise with this too as nearly all my UK relatives - aunts, uncles and cousins, have lived - and still live - in and around the West Midlands area for the last 40 years or so).

Just been looking at that challenge on the Glasgow Subway where you have to get of at Buchanan St and dash to St Enoch and catch the same train. I reckon if I got off a Wirral train at Lime St, I could run to Central and catch the same one :D

How clever wot with your little legs!

How about between Hamilton Square and James Street...... :runaway:

:) :cheers:

No problem man!

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/6305428387.01._PE43_.Cool-Runnings._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

I'm quite a good swimmer!

To go back to the bog debate for a moment it is the appallingly low standards that those in charge of these things see as acceptable.

If you look at the new road and paving surface LV have just put down and our new 'cleaning regime' that is touted as excellent.... then why are they so shitted up with ingrained dust and puke already then?

have you seen the filth on the steps coming out of many of the subways/underground stations downtown?

there is a particularly nasty example in the snapshot part of the downtown site.
http://www.downtownliverpool.org/snapshot/downtownsnapshot2.html
Mersetravel must see nothing wrong with how it looks. There is actually not too much litter in this pic, but just look at the risers... they can't have been cleaned in years... why not?

I remember a freind who moved to Liverpool saying how shocking the amount of littler and general filth there was in the city... but within a few months you no longer notice it... maybe our standards are depressed by the amount of filth... like a tramp getting a cats lick, he assumes he has really spruced up?

Tony,

I quite agree, it`s unacceptable but also a `British Desease` not just in Liverpool.

Isn`t this someting that the City Centre Bid and Gold Zones is meant to tackle?

Where are they.....

Some shot's from under the Queensway Tunnel

The start of the tunnel at the Liverpool end.
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/3936/zunderqueenswaytunnel27vh.jpg

The four lanes of traffic rumbeling just above.
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7481/zunderqueenswaytunnel30ql.jpg

Trams were planned to run along this space
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9731/zunderqueenswaytunnel48ys.jpg

Where is Tom Slemen when you need him, this spooky orb was following me down the tunnel :eek:
http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/9176/zunderqueenswaytunnel50qy.jpg


And if it interests you, a video of a normal car journey through the tunnel.

Tunnel journey (http://www.bbc.co.uk/liverpool/virtual_tours/tunnel/index.shtml)

Good grief Jux, you do get about!

And to think you said you didn`t want to get stuck in that spiral stair case at St Nicks!

There is an association / organisation (can`t remember the name) that specialises (engineers etc I think) in going into tunnels and vents and all thinks locked away - urban.

They held their National Conference in Liverpool some years ago and were totally gob smacked at the sheer variety of tunneling and services that takes place underground and where particulary taken by the audacity of the ventalation towers for the Mersey Tunnel.

Spooky pics by the way - did you come out the same man as you went in?

Iv'e just about recovered from my "orb" ordeal. :crazy:

Thanks for the pics Juxta,

How high is the ceiling in there?

I remember a freind who moved to Liverpool saying how shocking the amount of littler and general filth there was in the city... but within a few months you no longer notice it... maybe our standards are depressed by the amount of filth... like a tramp getting a cats lick, he assumes he has really spruced up?

Some of the filth around the city centre is appalling, and a lot of these visitors LCC are working their arses off to impress will be disgusted. Especially European visitors who are used to fairly clean urban environments.

A lot of the money being spent on sculptures and consultants would be better spent employing really anal and psychotic clean-freaks to manage cleanliness in the city centre. Basics first IMO.

Juxt, those are cracking pics mate! :cheers:

If I had the spare time I'd buy a wheelbarrow and dustpan and brush, and I'd clean up parts of the city and invoice the council.

Litter is not a problem exclusive to Liverpool, but compared to other cities I think Liverpool's problem is quite a bit worse.

People shouldn't drop litter in the first place, but it doesn't help when there seems to be hardly any bins anywhere.

And our pavements are disgusting. Look at them on a Saturday or Sunday morning and they're full of kebab meat, vomit, alcohol, glass, all sorts. They only seem to get cleaned when it rains.

P.S Back to the original topic, them pics of the tunnel are amazing.

Steve,

There was an article in the Echo just the other week that as part of the BID actions that a new city centre cleaning force had been established - with water jets etc to wash the streets after night time activities etc - and they are also supposed to be up and running now - despite previous promises of action.....Gold Zones.

The article from the Echo is posted elsewhere.

There is also supposed to be a program across the city educating them on the issues.....about the need to be a cleaner city before ECoC takes place.

I've never seen pictures of the underside of the Liverpool land side tunnel, so those are very interesting.

It was never planned to run trams down the land side tunnels (there wouldn't be the headroom) but between the two shore ventilating stations (Georges Dock and Morpeth Branch Dock), the tunnel is excavated to a full circle so there is headroom for a double decker tram. That is where the emergency 'safe rooms' have now been constructed.

I believe that the tram idea was dropped when Wallasey and Bootle decided not to join Liverpool and Birkenhead in constructing the tunnel as the original idea was that tram routes would branch out from the tunnel to link up all four towns.

I've never seen pictures of the underside of the Liverpool land side tunnel, so those are very interesting.

It was never planned to run trams down the land side tunnels (there wouldn't be the headroom) but between the two shore ventilating stations (Georges Dock and Morpeth Branch Dock), the tunnel is excavated to a full circle so there is headroom for a double decker tram. That is where the emergency 'safe rooms' have now been constructed.

I believe that the tram idea was dropped when Wallasey and Bootle decided not to join Liverpool and Birkenhead in constructing the tunnel as the original idea was that tram routes would branch out from the tunnel to link up all four towns.

Some things never change eh.

That part of the tunnel is called "central avenue".---heres some facts on the tunnel-

Length of Roadway 2.13 miles
Total length of Tunnel including approaches and branch tunnels 2.87 miles
Width of main Tunnel between kerbs 36 feet
Width of branch Tunnels between kerbs 19 feet
Internal diameter of main Tunnel 44 feets
External diameter of main Tunnel 46ft. 3 ins
Weight of rock, gravel and clay excavated 1,200,000 tons
Weight of explosives used 560,000 lbs
Weight of cast-iron used in lining Tunnel 82,000 tons
Weight of Concrete used 270,000 tons
Total length of electric cable in Tunnel 583.5 miles
Average cover of rock over the top of the Tunnel under the River 20 feet
Total number of bolts in cast-iron lining is approximately 1 million
Total number of men employed directly on tunnel construction 1,700

http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/1128/untitled29za.png

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/9872/crosssection4ms.jpg

They're class images Mike, cheers.

Thanks Mike,
just about to post summat similar :cheers:
http://www.merseytravel.gov.uk/information_tunnel_facts-figures.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/liverpool/localhistory/journey/underground/queensway_tunnel/facts.shtml

That first pic is a cracker BTW :cheers:

From Scientific American - Saturday, March 13, 1886 (http://www.upton.cx/scientific_american.htm)

And another link (http://hevac-heritage.org/picture_gallery/buildings_&_structures/structures/mersey_tunnel/mersey_tunnel.htm)

http://hevac-heritage.org/picture_gallery/buildings_&_structures/structures/mersey_tunnel/mtv1.jpg
http://hevac-heritage.org/picture_gallery/buildings_&_structures/structures/mersey_tunnel/mtv2.jpg

Class! cheers Dave :cheers:

Blabbernsmoke:-
How high is the ceiling in there?

It's about 8 feet high in the centre, so plenty of room to stand up.


A bit of old'e fashioned plant in the tunnel.
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1797/zunderqueenswaytunnel71xu.jpg

Is that someone's home brew? :cheers:

Great stuff. I am going to use that Scientific American link Dave in a piece I have ready for tomorrows new page about when Liverpool didn't mind doing big stuff, changing landscapes and skylines etc. Some fellow has doen a little piece on Bartels, the creator of the Liver Birds on top of the building.... someting that profoundly changed the image of the city dfor all time!... but then, we used to do things when we were important.

Just a thought... if Liverpool fans had been asked at the start of the 04/05 season whether the club should put up another memorial gateway... or a bit more crap on the badge to make it more 'heritagy'... or should we make a punt for the European Cup, which would likely end in failure... what would they have said?

Anyone think a bridge accross the mersey would be a good idea, when i say this, i mean one that comes into central liverpool, not a few miles down the river

Why when we've got two tunnels which do just that?

lol, i no because we have two tunnels it wouldn't be of much use, or would cause the tunnels to be of no use, but it would look good, if you look at london and newcastle and nottingham, they all have bridges going across.

We've the Runcorn Bridge, downstream. I'd say you'd never justify the cost if it was just for image. It's hard enough getting a bridge built if it's essential, as the second Halton crossing is proving.

Is that someone's home brew? :cheers:

Lol! I just finished a new batch myself. I could use a good drum like that one! :cheers:

Trains go back to bad old days Apr 20 2006

By Sam Lister Daily Post Staff

MERSEYSIDE'S train commuters face a return to the bad old days of "Miseryrail", they were warned last night.

Merseytravel chairman Mark Dowd (left) delivered his grim assessment after 50 passengers were trapped under the Mersey for an hour as the underground network was paralysed by its 18th track problem in nine days.

Thousands of Wirral passengers faced rush hour chaos yesterday after a power failure halted the 6.30am Ellesmere Port to Liverpool train.

Passengers on the train were stranded in darkness for an hour until guards carrying torches guided them to safety along the tracks in the tunnel.

Extra buses were laid on, but struggled to cope with thousands of Liverpool-bound rail commuters stranded in Birkenhead.

Merseytravel attempted to take over control of the region's tracks and signal from operator Network Rail but was told its bid had failed on April 10.

It claims the spate of problems recorded since then, which include circuit and radio signal failures, a track defect and the small fire that caused the Wirral line to grind to a halt yesterday, illustrate exactly why it should be in charge.

Last night, Cllr Dowd launched a stinging attack on Network Rail, branding it "as much use as a chocolate teapot".

He has written to Halton MP and transport minister Derek Twigg and has called for the Government to intervene. (my emphasis.)

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=16968866%26method=full%26siteid=50061%26headline=trains%2dgo%2dback%2dto%2dbad%2dold%2ddays-name_page.html

1 2 3 Next

Are we about to see more problems after MerseyTravel tried to gain full control but failed. Network rail clashing with Merseytravel, being awkward, resulting in the service going downhill. I can see this escelating if Cllr Dowd is not happy

Cllr Dowd launched a stinging attack on Network Rail, branding it "as much use as a chocolate teapot"

Same old, same old.

This country is far, far too centralised. Most of our planning, infrastructure, development problems stem from this single fact.

Network Rail are a steaming pile of shit, and they obviously can't hack being out shone by a smaller, more local organisation.

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/icliverpool/sep2005/6/9/00043B87-F971-1338-82FE0C02AC1BF824.jpg
TRAIN company Merseyrail has sealed a deal to manage Merseyside's new state-of-the-art train and bus station.

The £32m Liverpool South Parkway interchange - the most modern station in Europe - will provide a new transport hub for the area, including a shuttle bus service to the nearby Liverpool John Lennon airport.

Transport authority Merseytravel has signed a deal with Merseyrail Electrics to operate and manage the facility for 23 years, alongside its current franchise to operate the region's rail network.

Opening on June 11, South Parkway is a combination of the old Allerton and Garston rail stations and will provide a link to Britain's fastest growing airport for millions of passengers from across northern England and the midlands.

It includes hi-tech ticket and booking facilities; passenger information and enquiry points; bus and taxi stops; and a park-and-ride car park.

The latest CCTV cameras will provide surveillance and abus shuttle service will ferry passengers to and from the nearby Liverpool John Lennon airport.

It also boasts ground-breaking environmental features including a roof of recycled aluminium and the facility to 'harvest' rainwater which will save 700,000 litres of mains water a year.

Merseytravel director general and chief executive Neil Scales said: "We've set a standard which is being recognised nationally and one we hope others will emulate."

And Merseytravel chair Cllr Mark Dowd added: "Liverpool South Parkway is the most modern station in Europe and will be agreat asset to the people of Merseyside and beyond, linking them to the airport and job opportunities."

Merseyrail Electrics managing director Patrick Verwer said: "We are very proud of our successful relationship with Merseytravel and we are delighted to be taking on the management and operation of such an important project in Liverpool South Parkway."

* Rail passengers travelling between the West Midlands and London face disruption over the bank holiday weekend for major engineering works.

Buses will replace trains on the West Coast Main Line between Birmingham International and Hertfordshire, through Coventry, Rugby, Northampton and Milton Keynes.

Neil Hodgson says ..

HANDING the running of Europe's most modern inter-change to Merseyrail Electrics makes perfect sense.

Since the Anglo-Dutch consortium took control of the Merseyrail network, they have turned it from "Miseryrail" to one of the UK's best performing rail operators.

Merseytravel is keen to wrest control of the local rail network from Network Rail to run the system more efficiently. It agrees with Merseytravel that local problems are better solved by local people, which will apply to Liverpool South Parkway.

Excellent centre page spread in todays DP, re the track laying in the loop tunnel. Job is almost complete and Wirral Line passengers can look forward to a resumption of normal services. New track has been layed on a concrete base with special damped rail clips to give a smooth ride and no clickty-click.

£2m rail revamp


ONE of Liverpool's main railway stations may be given a £2m facelift.

James Street's facilities for rail and bus passengers will benefit from the investment, with changes being made to the access, and new waiting shelters and an entrance canopy being built.

A booking hall will be refurbished and the outside of the station will be revamped.

A planning application for the scheme has been submitted to Liverpool council and a decision is expected early next year.

Work would start in spring and be completed by the end of the year.


The venture is being under-taken by Merseytravel in partnership with the council, Merseyrail and Network Rail.


The improvements are being made as part of the £73m City Centre Movement Strategy (CCMS).


Neil Scales, Merseytravel chief executive said: "Our aim is for an integrated transport network accessible to all and these plans will help us achieve that with James Street."

good, because james street is a dump

All of the Merseyrail 'underground' city centre stations need a revamp. I believe L'pool Central will also be getting one, to be tied in with the Central Village scheme. However, I'm somewhat surprised that there's not been any mention of doing the same with Lime Street, given that it forms part of a major rail network, with thousands of people passing through it every day. Not sure if anyone knows anything to the contrary..?

All of the Merseyrail 'underground' city centre stations need a revamp. I believe L'pool Central will also be getting one, to be tied in with the Central Village scheme. However, I'm somewhat surprised that there's not been any mention of doing the same with Lime Street, given that it forms part of a major rail network, with thousands of people passing through it every day. Not sure if anyone knows anything to the contrary..?

In April 2004, a major revamp of Lime Street Station was announced at an estmated cost of £75M. Phase one is the Gateway Tower and new entrances. Also included in this phase will be new ticket office and travel centre. Phase two planned for between 2007 and 2009, a new eastern entrance to Copperas Hill will be built along with the Merseyrail underground station being refurbished

Phase three which will run from 2010 to 2013(?) will create an extention of the station on a site bounded by Seymour St and Copperas Hill.

The delay in starting Phase one ,which will only start in 2007 when it was planned to be completed in 2007, will certainly mean a delay in starting phases two & three . So it could be 2015 when the total revamp will be completed.:ohno:

Cheers Woody. I had no idea there were such grand plans for the site! Apart from Mcr Liverpool Rd (long since used), it's one of ther oldest passenger stations in the world, so deserves some TLC.

Cheers Woody. I had no idea there were such grand plans for the site! Apart from Mcr Liverpool Rd (long since used), it's one of ther oldest passenger stations in the world, so deserves some TLC.

Yes, thanks :) , disappointed at the time scale though :ohno:

Northern line trains are going to be increased to a frequency of 4 times an hour post 7pm from next month - a spin off from the success of South Parkway?

Phase three which will run from 2010 to 2013(?) will create an extention of the station on a site bounded by Seymour St and Copperas Hill.

Didn't know about that Woody, what are they planning for that end of the station? I'm sure an alternative entrance there would be good for the University and London Road area.

Is that where the portacabins are now? they've been working there for ages now and I've often wondered whay they're doing.

In April 2004, a major revamp of Lime Street Station was announced at an estmated cost of £75M. Phase one is the Gateway Tower and new entrances. Also included in this phase will be new ticket office and travel centre. Phase two planned for between 2007 and 2009, a new eastern entrance to Copperas Hill will be built along with the Merseyrail underground station being refurbished

Phase three which will run from 2010 to 2013(?) will create an extention of the station on a site bounded by Seymour St and Copperas Hill.

The delay in starting Phase one ,which will only start in 2007 when it was planned to be completed in 2007, will certainly mean a delay in starting phases two & three . So it could be 2015 when the total revamp will be completed.:ohno:

Woopiedooo!!!! :banana:

`Expansion and consolidation`.....

I`m sure `Liverpools` further revival will force this timescale to be ramped up considerably and the necessary phases will be completed earlier and plus some.

L1 - `PSDA`, KD & Arena, new CBD`s etc etc etc,

I`m currently busy plodding through more than six weeks of forum updates due to having PC problems of my own (and being an `Internet cafe` virgin......well until an hour ago anyway.) good to see you all continuing to fly the flag ......for the `pool of life` :cheers:

Welcome back Pie

Welcome back Pie

How very kind :) :cheers:

So pleased to be back.....

Didn't know about that Woody, what are they planning for that end of the station? I'm sure an alternative entrance there would be good for the University and London Road area.

Martin, I have seen no details on phases 2 & 3, this is a radical plan to upgrade the whole site, I think in phase 2, the whole of the concourse and platforms will be relayed and the cab road between platforms 7 & 8 will have new passenger facilities.