This one needs resurrecting!
How is this project going? - Lets have some pictures folks!

saw it yesterday, looks about 1/3 up with the panel replacement, no change to windows though

The thread for this should be returning soon, not much point in this.

City tower today,,looking much better already i must say

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/ANTEATPETE/manchesteraug7006.jpg

A massive improvement already. I just hope the sides will be decent too.

Re: All those posters stuck on the side of Sunley. Theres a poster showing the height every 50ft, goes from 50ft-300ft but the highest one is 335ft, and it says 'The Bruntwood Height Challenge' or something like that. Sunley was only 335ft/101m when first built, the extra 16ft must come from the antenna rooms on top.

And heres why those posters are up:
Bruntwood’s Chief Executive & Leader of Manchester City Council Abseil the 320ft City Tower


Bruntwood’s Chief Executive Chris Oglesby and Councillor Richard Leese, Leader of Manchester City Council abseiled the 320 feet tall, City Tower on Wednesday May 18 to launch Urban X; an adventure race that will be taking place in Manchester for the first time on Saturday August 6.



Bruntwood’s Chris Oglesby is no stranger to adventurous sports, having abseiled down Portland Tower for the Commonwealth Games, taken part in endurance cycling events and run the London marathon. He commented, “We are delighted to help Manchester deliver such a genuinely inclusive adventure race and look forward to welcoming such an original event to our city.”



Councillor Leese – a sports enthusiast – said “Manchester is renowned as a city where people have unique and exhilarating experiences. We’re proud to be hosting this unusual race and encourage everyone to come along.”

Urban X is part of a UK wide Rat Race Adventure series and in Manchester will consist of two parts; a Rat Race urban adventure race that is open to all and an invitational Aerial Assault course for professional climbers.



Permission to abseil down City Tower has been given by key Rat Race partner Bruntwood, one of the largest private property companies in the north of England who own over 70 office buildings in Manchester, Liverpool and Leeds.



Bruntwood’s Head of Marketing Simon Scott commented, “Today’s event gives a real indication of the type of activity we are likely to see on August 6. We are working hard to identify ways we can use our building to enhance the event but are delighted that we could use city tower today as it’s a landmark people immediately associate with Manchester.”



Adventure racing is one of the fastest growing sports in the UK and the Rat Race typically involves multiple disciplines, such as running, climbing, abseiling, kayaking, mountain bike racing and navigation. The event brings extreme sport out of the mountains and the forests right into the heart of some of the UK’s favourite cities.

The courses remain secret until race day but organizers are working with local bodies to open up some unusual landmarks and top beauty spots to add to the fun.



For professional climbers, a special Ariel Assault course will be included. Like the rest of the race, the course details remain secret, although key Rat Race partner Bruntwood will be heavily involved with its development, and the intention is that some of their city centre buildings are likely to be utilized.



The Rat Race is the UK’s first adventure race set in an urban environment and is the brainchild of former Red Bull events supremo, Jim Mee who says “These competitive events are extremely unusual because such activities are typically associated with the remote countryside yet we are bringing all these elements into busy urban environments.



“Absolutely anybody over 18 can apply and each event is structured so that competitors can enter at the Rookie, Adventure or Elite level, depending on their abilities and experience.
Teams can compete in an amazing race that is challenging and demanding without being intimidating.”



Urban X is a nationwide series that is sponsored by The North Face. Marketing Director Keith Byrne is an experienced Adventure Racer and as well as competing in last year’s inaugural Rat Race, travels the world with The North Face race team. This year he has decided to become the major event sponsor to help the race grow and to support the launch into his home city.

It said 'Bruntwood Aerial Assault' Caw. All the action was yesterday.

See http://www.ratraceadventure.com/manchester/ for more info.

The new eastern facade of Sunley looks like a totally new building. Totally fantastic.
It will be interesting to see what they do to the zig-zag facade at the top.

Oh yes, that will do nicely

Oh its actually happening then...I was thinking of this the other day.

The new eastern facade of Sunley looks like a totally new building. Totally fantastic.
It will be interesting to see what they do to the zig-zag facade at the top.

They got planning permmison a while back for new Oriel (?) windows, which i belive are sticky out windows, so whether that's for the windows on the side or the ones at the top i'm not sure.

Glad i could clear that up :bash:

I've always been a big fan of Sunley and it's going to look fantastic after the reclad, keep the photo's coming :)

That is a massive improvement, far greater than I imagined.. I just hope that they dont mess it up with the sides (don't really want white, I fear it'll ruin it all..)

Also, just burn/bulldoze that vile hotel DOWN!!! I really don't see how it can survive? with all these new hotels and hostles bein built and planned what need is there to keep this? who wants to holiday or sleepover in this?!! demolish it at once and replace it with a streamlined tower that draws City tower in with Albany and Eastgate :P

I like this re-clad; bringing it up to date without destroying its original character.

If the hotel is the building in front of the tower, you;re mad Ferge, its a wonderful building. look at those shapes!

http://www.lookingatbuildings.org.uk/img_hr/Manchester_Piccadilly_Plaza.jpg

IMO the whole area around Piccadilly Gardens needs a complete overhaul. That massive bus station right next to the crossover of 3 sections of tram line is dangerous and looks shite, this along with the current state of Aytoun Street at Piccadilly Place makes Piccadilly a bit of a death trap.

And that bloody berlin wall looks worse every time I see it.

Get rid of that awful hotel, Jarvis aren't going to bother renovating IMO, it's in such a state they might prefer to simply let their lease be bought out opening up the site for development. Fully demolish and build a quality bus interchange, sort out the roads around The Plaza, get some decent shops in, sort it out.

di livio,,,if you had to look at that ugly bastard every day ,you wold bazooka the fucker immediatly,,,,im hoping that Jarvis have struck a deal with Inacity,,,that would kill 2 birds with one stone,,,

CAW i know what your saying about that wall,i honestly dont know anybody that likes it,fucking dreadful

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/1064JarvisPiccadillyHotel_pic1.jpg

Bruntwood bought the whole plaza didn't they? Then they won't want to put up with this horror for much longer hopefully.

If not one of us will have to bomb it.

I'd have thought that the Piccadilly Hotel was a listed building?

retep,,,ssshhhhhh dont say that, or we'll never get rid of it

I'd have thought that the Piccadilly Hotel was a listed building?
A listed building for the people who are on drugs.

If thats a listed building some one needs shooting.

The only grade listing that wants to go on is the X listings!!!

Di Livio, I don't think it is I that is mad.. that is just foul..
If you saw it (like said) regularly, you'd release that its possibly the worst building in the Northwest!, you can just see all the muck and grime all over it, sure.. the shape is original, but it dont give it an excuse to escape the bulldozers IMO

Soz Highriser..... (don't tell anyone, but I think it's ace)

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/1064JarvisPiccadillyHotel_pic1.jpg

Bruntwood bought the whole plaza didn't they? Then they won't want to put up with this horror for much longer hopefully.


LOL...i've seen some hideous buildings in my time but that is truly exceptional.. :)

Its up there with guys tower in London, and thats saying something...

All the stunning building's that are transforming Manchester and then this...

You guys need to get a petition going or something to get rid of it, words really cant describe just how bad it is.....

Is it really still a working hotel?.....jesus christ, people actually pay to stay in there.....i'd feel so depressed to arrive in Manc, to find out i had to stay in there...

The only grade listing that wants to go on is the X listings!!!

Di Livio, I don't think it is I that is mad.. that is just foul..
If you saw it (like said) regularly, you'd release that its possibly the worst building in the Northwest!, you can just see all the muck and grime all over it, sure.. the shape is original, but it dont give it an excuse to escape the bulldozers IMO
I see it pretty much every day, and it is one of my favorite buildings in Manchester.

I see it pretty much every day, and it is one of my favorite buildings in Manchester.

Jesus, theres always one isnt there.....

Jesus, theres always one isnt there.....
Indeed there is, but don't call me Jesus

Exactly Mac,,,who in the right mind would want to stop in that,,,aaarrgghhh frozen i thought you of all people had some bloody taste,,,anyway hows it going matey,you still at Urbis?

Come on, have a look at it, it's a cute little hotel in a cradle on a platform. It's like Jarvis are some kind of benevolent parents making sure every one of their guests are tucked up in the little concrete womb of their baby, safely away from the mean streets below. Ok, so it’s an ugly baby, but it means well. I think I compared it to Christina Ricci once before - once you get over the fact she’s a little odd looking, she’s clearly sex on a stick. Ok, sex on an ugly concrete podium. Could do with a clean though, and no, I wouldn’t especially like to stay there the way it is now. Having said that my friend’s mum booked in there not long ago, and she was very worried that it might have been a mistake. Turns out that when she arrived they had Casualty on, on a massive projected screen, and she loved it. Classy.

Anyhow… Yep, all is well highriser, I should be free for a bit after this coming weekend if you are up for getting some snaps together? I’ll pm you when I know when I’m working next week. Urbis….shhh… it’s not my fault!

Come on, have a look at it, it's a cute little hotel in a cradle on a platform. It's like Jarvis are some kind of benevolent parents making sure every one of their guests are tucked up in the little concrete womb of their baby, safely away from the mean streets below. Ok, so it’s an ugly baby, but it means well. I think I compared it to Christina Ricci once before - once you get over the fact she’s a little odd looking, she’s clearly sex on a stick. Ok, sex on an ugly concrete podium. Could do with a clean though, and no, I wouldn’t especially like to stay there the way it is now. Having said that my friend’s mum booked in there not long ago, and she was very worried that it might have been a mistake. Turns out that when she arrived they had Casualty on, on a massive projected screen, and she loved it. Classy.

!

You really are in denial.......about buildings and women... :)

Seriously though, with the Maths tower being wrecked and the gloriously obnoxious Oxford Road elevation of Royal Northern College of Music about to get a tarting up, Javis remains the last remaining panel of a the great Manchester aspirational brutalist triptych. Manchester will be a worse place without them all.

It just needs a clean, tartup, reclad, whatever. The building itself is OK, interesting even.

Here's a picture from earlier in the thread. Thanks somebody. It really could look good again with quite modest work.

http://www.lookingatbuildings.org.uk/img_hr/Manchester_Piccadilly_Plaza.jpg

It's a cheap tart.

:rofl:
your imagination runs wild sometimes,,seriously though,when i look at this building it reminds me of all the post war, cheaply constucted concrete barnacles which attached themselves to great British cities after the war - archtitects who you can tell looked at the modern buildings around the world only for a couple of seconds before getting inspiration by spending the rest of the night on magic mushrooms with a pad and pencil - then coming up with this vomited mass of concrete which in their dreams obviousy took on the guise of some sunning modern version of L'Arc de triomphe - and yet, sited next to the glorious architecture of Picadilly gardens set back looking magestic as an ugli fruit in the middle of a summer fruit salad; a Peter Beardley in the middle of the Real Madrid Footy Team.

Frozen ,, any time matey,im job hunting at the moment so im free till then

http://www.aidan.co.uk/md/ManCityTwrBruntwd2x4917.jpg
http://www.gauntfrancis.co.uk/Piccadilly_Plaza_main.jpg

Well i think the architect and the coucil planning officer that approved it, should be sought out and if still alive be publicly stoned to death for allowing such a pile of shit to be built.

They complain about graffiti ruining the urban landscape, yet allow this....crazy fucked up world.

And why are Jarvis allowed to keep it looking like shit, cant the council force them to at least get it cleaned up or reclad.

It is getting cleaned up and getting a reclad.


Isnt that what this thread is all about :dunno:

The Sunley Tower is, the Jarvis Hotel isn't.

I thought it was part of the same project.

If you look at that rendering I posted above.

As well.

No it isn't. So far we've heard nothing of Jarvis plans to do anything with their building.

If you look at the very latest renderings of the reclad, the hotel is untouched.
http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/164CityTower_pic14.jpg
http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/164CityTower_pic15.jpg

Whats the Hotel like inside?

I thought it was part of the same project.

If you look at that rendering I posted above.

As well.

That render you showed does indeed show the hotel as recladded/cleaned up however that is a very old render and wasn't anything to do with Jarvis. It was prob done just to make sunley tower look better itself.

By all accounts the inside of the hotel is even worse than the outside.

Grabbed some reviews of the hotel from a few sites:

Jarvis Piccadilly Hotel Manchester: Mnachester's grottiest hotel?
Written on March 31, 2004.

A gruesome 60s monstrosity that should be demolished. It's situated in the run-down Piccadilly area of Manchester - great if you like being accosted by the winos that congregate in the area. The staff are disinterested, the rooms are extremely shabby, the cooked breakfast inedible, and, incredibly, this hotel is rated 4 star! Do yourself a favour and avoid this dump.

The health club has a nice pool - but the changing rooms are really shabby!

Good points:
- Private parking right at the door.
- Very central
- Down the road from Manc Chinatown: good eats there.
- WiFi in the reception and bar/restaurant areas (a lot of Manc hotels don't have it - becoming an essential as far as I'm concerned.
- Overall, staff reasonably pleasant.

Bad points
- Spectacularly run-down. Frankly dirty.
- Hardly any choice on TV. I didn't want to phsically handle the remote due to the generally scruffy vibe.
- The foyer bar, which looks as if it might have been a cosy looking watering hole once, is off limits unless you're an airline person. The 3rd floor bar is huge and empty - miserable - ("Where Manchester Meets?" - I don't think so!) with inept staff and a cluster of layabouts (not guests, I'm pretty sure) gathered round the TV, two of them, dressed in matching shorts and tee shirts, when I was there ostentatiously and unashamedly picking there noses. Revolting.)
- Cramped double room.
- No room air-con: stifling in the hot July weather. The windows screwed down so they only open a couple of inches. No sign of fan ventilation - just a knob on the wall that didn't actually do anything. Apparently there's one fan available for a lucky guest - staff using all the other ones.
- Poster outside announcing that there's a big deal bar/restaurant inside. There's a big, empty, crap bar/restaurant inside.
- Breakfast edible - just - but made with rubbishy bargain basement ingredients. Service pleasant.

Would maybe go again due to parking and wifi but would beat the price down as much as poss and meanwhile check for somewhere better. Trouble is, central Manc is a bit of a hole and gets the hotel standards it deserves.


Stayed here for a conference 4 July to 6 July 2005.
The room was dirty, the carpet was threadbare and mould grew on the bathroom tiles.
Everyone complained about the lifts which seemed to please themsleves and often did not stop at the floor you wanted it to.
Many guests chose to the stairs!
A colleague was pickpocketed outside and I did not feel safe walking the streets nearby.
The hotel needs to be closed and a major refurbishment carried out.

Dirty, significantly in need of refurbishment, service poor and to cap it all the strong aroma of fish and chips from the street level chippy below which permeates reception area. I may be cheap but don't stay here. At breakfast one morning we were told that coffee would be a twenty minute wait!!!

Stayed at this hotel for 4 nights and if there was any other available accomodation in Manchester that weekend we would have moved out straight away! ...the room was filthy, with stained and peeling off wallpaper, stained base on bed, human remains and dirt left on unhoovered carpet, limescale all around bath which had cracks in it and some unsightly green stain all around plughole, cracked wash-hand basin & paint peeling of bathroom door that is just the room! Lifts that work as and when they feel like, breakfast is more like a heart attack on a plate as it was literally swimming in grease, cutlery, dishes & glasses all looked like hadnt been washed for god knows how long. And when spoke to staff about the state of room i was met with the response of 'well it is a really old hotel'. Have to say read reviews on this site after booked and thought it was maybe people being too fussy as it is only 3*** afterall, well all i can say is please please please anyone thinking of booking this hotel take the feedback left already and go elsewhere it really isnt worth it! Oh and Jarvis where is all your money being spent cos it aint in the piccadilly!

My husband and i booked this hotel as it was one of the few with car parking. We only stayed for one night as we where going out for the day and then on to a concert. Check in was very good as we where about 3/4 hour early, but there was no problem. The rooms where very small and tired, but they where clean and tidy. The bathroom was also clean. The noise from the street at night was very noisy and we where on the 7th floor, it went on well past 2a.m. The breakfast was very good plenty of it and hot, it was self service so you just pleased yourself what you had. All in all the hotel was adaquate for somewhere just to put your head after a night out. If i wanted somewhere for a special occasion etc. I would look elsewhere. The staff though where very nice and friendly.


Some of these are quite funny. :laugh:

Sounds crap.

sound lovely in fact,,,i think i'll book a w/end there,,,NOT

The run-down Piccadilly area of Manchester,,,it's this fucking building that make's the area look run down,,

Whenever im in the city centre with friends from other cities i find that building so embarassing, when im Piccadiilly i'll rather show them Poli's infamous dog turd's that that heap of shit

It's the fucking bus station, and all the scroats and grease that goes with it.

The fucking bus station, scroats and grease merely add to the run down ambience of Piccadilly, which is elevated by the shitty plaza.

How anyone can defend this hotel is beyond me, the thing is a disgrace, it has to go. A shit building, with a shit hotel inside, in a shit state. 2/3rds of the job will be done at the Plaza when Sunley is finished recladding, adding to the crappy looking 'Lightbox' that fronts Mosely Street which hasn't attracted any tenants at all so far, it's crap but at least it's something

It degrades the whole area! Demolish it. Replace with a 50 storey, a bus station, a park, anything except what is currently there! Also replace those awful office blocks along York Street. Have the council drawn up a masterplan for the York Street area?

One of those vile office buildings on York St,was fenced off a bit back , the one with a lovely chess board design,i thought it was getting done up or flattened,if that hotel was demolished,it would open up the area,in between Piccadilly and China Town

Caw: the bus station degrades the whole area. That's why the Plaza is shitty. Work it out. Now stop whining for demolition just because some highrise is dirty. Look at the picture on the left and use your imgination. The building is basically fine. It just needs a makeover.

http://www.aidan.co.uk/md/ManCityTwrBruntwd2x4917.jpg

I'm sorry but the hotel is shit, one of the worst in the country. I feel like I need new eyes when I walk past it. Knock it down ASAP

Caw: the bus station degrades the whole area. That's why the Plaza is shitty. Work it out. Now stop whining for demolition just because some highrise is dirty. Look at the picture on the left and use your imgination. The building is basically fine. It just needs a makeover.

http://www.aidan.co.uk/md/ManCityTwrBruntwd2x4917.jpg
The rendering there is very decieving. The way that the hotel is shown is totally unrealistic. Plus they have removed all the tram wires which somewhat mess up the view.

The bus station does not affect the aesthetics of the building. No wonder someone writes that they do not feel safe walking the streets with this dark, brutal overbearing heap looming over them.

Knock it down and create a building or, a set of buildings that

1. Frames Piccadilly Gardens properly
2. Reintroduces the street network
3. Isn't perched upon some ridiculous ground-scraping podium
4. Successfully responds to Sunley Tower and the surrounding streets and buildings.

I've seen the Jarvis advertized in Toronto papers in the travel section and it's (rightfully in it's current state) downgraded to 2 stars. It's being touted as the accommodation part of a 4 day 'weekend getaway' cheap package trips to Manchester.
All I can say is that the tour operators have not really done their homework and this hotel would be a poor welcome for a first-time visitor. I can also say that I have stayed at so-called 3 and 4 star flea-pits in NY/Chicago/SanFran so it's not unusual to have 'questionable' hotels in many city centers, that somehow amazingly manage not to detract from the visitors stay and overall impression of the city. It's almost like unless you are in the ultra-wealthy set it is to be expected that some down-town hotels will disappoint, and the quality of the place you end up with will be in direct proportion to a) The vacancy availlability, b) How much notice you are giving, and c) How much money are you prepared to part with.
Personally, if I'm staying in a down-town hotel for only a short period I'm not too concerned with the place as long as it's reasonably clean as I don't intend to hang around the hotel except for crashing after a night on the town.
I saw the Jarvis this April, and it does look in terrible need of a major clean-up and re-clad. In its defence, it is quite a unique shape/style and I'm sure it could look stunning with a bit of imaginative work done on it.
Bulldozing should only be considered if it turns out to be structurally unsafe or the land value warrants the economy of a taller building. That's the whole idea of skyscrapers, it's got everything to do with the price of real-estate innit?

I stayed in a run down hostel once bang in the centre of San Fran - fella got shot outside there one night (not far from the tenderloin district - Manchester has nothing in comparison to that!!). Next night I met an 'african-american' angel who told me some of the weirdest stuff I'd ever heard (it still has locates a pocket of my front brain to this day).

Agree Miles - it's f*cked up but fantastically shapen. Blur your eyes a little at night and it has a great presence from the Debenhams end of Pic gardens.
Surely Urban Splash must've reviewed the possibility of flexing their fingers on this?

Can somebody confirm that the York Street facing 'side-on' has commenced with the scaffolding?

I must admit the area still gives me a bit of a bad vibe..like there could be trouble starting from somewhere, I have had a bite to eat outside that Jamaican fast food place (quite nice jerk chicken) and spotted police chasing dirty homeless looking people. these people then threw something in the bushes, the police didn't spot this, and gave these people a warning. As the police walked away, the guys then looked in the bushes, trying not to make it obvious, but the police spotted it and came back and arrested them... very entertaining is Piccadilly gardens, and the build up of cafes is moving it in the right direction, but I suppose the only solution as far as the bus noise etc. is to make the buses go underground somehow? Shame really, when my mate from Canada came over, I didn't show him Piccadilly Gardens. (my mate had never been to Manchester before and really liked Manchester, better than he expected!)

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/ewm/ic0/68.jpg

http://www2.umist.ac.uk/material/pgrad_4w/imags/a_man1.jpg


A simple reclad will do nothing to enhance the experience of being in Piccadilly Gardens - the problems of which I put down to the Plaza to a large extent.

Ask people what is they favourite space in Manchester - I would put money on the vast majority saying Albert Square. What is it that makes Albert Sq so successful and such a nice place to be? Its a combination of the beautiful - and even the less beautiful buildings - that work together to properly enclose and define the space. The proportions of these buildings nicely reflect the proportions of the square which is also very important.



The buildings that make up the Plaza do no remotely relate to the space that they front onto. (See images above). Neither do they relate stylistically or in magnitude to surrounding buildings or streets. The whole place is confusion.

There is an interesting article and letter in Citylife this week about the gardens. Fair enough this was never a purpose built space (being the result of the removal of a bombed out building from WW2) but I firmly believe that its arse-end status was sealed the moment they decided to build Piccadilly Plaza way back in the 60s. Subsequent decision to locate a large bus terminus and disasterous additions such as the new office block and a substandard landscaping scheme have only served to exacerbate the problem.

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/ewm/ic0/68.jpg

http://www2.umist.ac.uk/material/pgrad_4w/imags/a_man1.jpgAsk people what is they favourite space in Manchester - I would put money on the vast majority saying Albert Square.

Actually a lot of people I've spoken to (that have seen both) seem to favour St Ann's Square, although personally I'd side with Albert Square too. Did you see the aerial shots of Albert Square during the triathlon coverage on Grandstand? Absolutely magnificent they were.

Regarding Piccadilly Plaza, yes, it's a real embarrassment at times. It looks good on a warm summer's day full of people, but on a grey February morning it has more than a whiff of communism-era Eastern Europe. What lets it down more than anything else, I think, are the low grade street-level shops and the concrete canopy over them. The rest of the plaza could actually look OK, it's the cheapo newsagents, travel agents, etc. that really bring the place down. I say demolish the pavilion, move the bus station to the other side of the tram lines and use the freed-up space for some street cafes or some such thing. A bit more greenery wouldn't go amiss either.

Actually a lot of people I've spoken to (that have seen both) seem to favour St Ann's Square, although personally I'd side with Albert Square too. Did you see the aerial shots of Albert Square during the triathlon coverage on Grandstand? Absolutely magnificent they were.

Good point. But here again, St Anne's Square is popular for the very same reasons that Albert Square is. Both have the same attributes I have highlighted above that contribute to them being successful spaces (those same attributes that Piccadilly Gardens so desperately lacks) - namely being surrounded by well proportioned buildings that properly enclose and at the same time define the space.

Piccadilly Gardens will never be as successful a space as either St Anne's Square or Albert Square with the clunky, disjointed Plaza forming the major backdrop.

http://www2.umist.ac.uk/material/pgrad_4w/imags/a_man1.jpg
Where did you get that image from Sleeps?
Never mind the plaza looking dated.
Reminds me of one of those early B & B/Guest house websites or an American recipe page.

Exchange square is very popular also, but St Peters Square feels so transitory (and I suppose depsite it's scale it is little more than a extragavent tram stop).

Alberts Sq has Jazz Festivals and Tate's special German suasages - Piccadilly Gardens has the Key 103 crowd and fun hats (though yes - Eat et al are working a little magic into the nucks and crannies).

In summary:

http://www.resort-guide.co.uk/images/guesimgl/12335.jpg

The bus station does not affect the aesthetics of the building. No wonder someone writes that they do not feel safe walking the streets with this dark, brutal overbearing heap looming over them.
Get real. The bus station and the associated grease/tramps/riffraff is what makes people feel unsafe. Not the Jarvis Hotel. And whilst that scroat factor persists "well proportioned buildings that properly enclose and define the space" won't do a damn thing and you know it.

I know eveyone except myself hates the berlin wall but please tell me what else could go in it's place that
a) hides the scabby plaza and bus/tram station
b) cut's out a hugh amount of bus noise
c) fit's in with the monstrosity that is the hotel and old sunnley tower.

It can't have been easy to design something that would fit in there. t certaintly couldn't have been left open.

Let the bashing begin :bash:

Trees?

Controversial, I know.

I know eveyone except myself hates the berlin wall but please tell me what else could go in it's place that
a) hides the scabby plaza and bus/tram station
b) cut's out a hugh amount of bus noise
c) fit's in with the monstrosity that is the hotel and old sunnley tower.

It can't have been easy to design something that would fit in there. t certaintly couldn't have been left open.

Let the bashing begin :bash:

Get real. The bus station and the associated grease/tramps/riffraff is what makes people feel unsafe. Not the Jarvis Hotel. And whilst that scroat factor persists "well proportioned buildings that properly enclose and define the space" won't do a damn thing and you know it.

I am real, thank you Farsight and I was real yesterday when I made that post. The Jarvis is most certainly part of a very real problem.

Like it or not, but the built environment shapes how people use and feel about an area, a street or a space.

Piccadilly Plaza (like the bus station, like most of the buildings that frame the gardens) is one such factor that contributes to Piccadilly Gardens being one of Manchester's worst places to spend any time in.

Skit: I think the bus station needs to move and the roadspace turned into parkland with the trams in a cutting and/or tunnel and/or berm. I can envisage pretty stone bridges, cobbles, palm trees, water, pavement cafes. A place you want to be.

Sleepyone: this is what matters. Not the shape of some building.

Here's a few pics I took of Sunley [City Tower] the other day - there's these height markings on the side elevation facing Piccadilly Square....I'm not sure exactly what they signify though.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y89/mckopper/P6100017a.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y89/mckopper/P6100018a.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y89/mckopper/P6100019a.jpg

Martin,,there was an Xtreme sports festival last weekend,,and some crazy fucker's wanted to climb it,,thats why the height's are on the side

Right.....blimey - :eek: what mad fuckers! Thanks for filling us in on that one. :)

Cheers for the pics Martin :)

Today


http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/ANTEATPETE/mancpics15thaug013.jpg

I used to work in an office down that very road (Minshull Street)! I was there until easter last year actually. :)

I hope they sort out all the messy stuff on top.

Thought i'd copy highriser's pic in this thread too - check out City Tower!

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/ANTEATPETE/mancpics18thaug005.jpg

It looks very odd from a distant now, like it's covered in a black veil

From this morning
http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/164CityTower_pic34.jpg

She's looking so much better already... By the time this is finished, we Mancs may just begin to feel a bit more proud of her, the daughter you show off to your friends rather than the one you keep your friends away from.

It looks worse from a distance at the mo. ! IMO However, I am still confident the finished tower will look much better. It certainly looks better close up. Just hope they dont paint the sides with that tar like paint that is on portland tower or I will be gutted lol. ,and please tell me they are not going to leave the top like that.

IMO the whole area around Piccadilly Gardens needs a complete overhaul.

I have to say i completely agree.
I know it's always said but it's just SO disappointing...one of the biggest mistakes the city council ever made.
Standing next to Cafe Nero in Picc Gardens last night was more like being on a run down council estate.
Approached by the scariest smackheads with the most comical "Manc" accents asking for a tenner "our kid"!
I know, i know...that's nothing to do with the architecture...but the area around it doesn't help.
It seems to attracts these people...you wouldn't think you were in a recently "regenerated area".
You just can't help but get frustrated because nothing's gonna be done now for a while probably.
Suppose it just adds to the grotty-chique (sorry...very Kemal) of Manc! :)

Piccadilly Gardens attracts all sorts of scum. Scallies in packs and alone, near-comatose drunks as well as the ones who talk to invisible people.

It's cos of that bloody bus and tram station. People come in from all over GMR to lull around town and the gardens is the first port of call because it's right there. The hobos love it too as they've got a large amount of people to beg from.

The dodgy characters, shitty plaza, shitty claustrophobic overshadowing 1 Piccadilly Gardens, the stained concrete berlin wall, dreary 'motorway underpass' of a Cafe Nero, unkempt grass, intermittent fountains, huge groups of pigeons, tram lines and bus lanes, all this contributes to make Piccadilly Gardens a pile of total wank.

Piccadilly Gardens attracts all sorts of scum. Scallies in packs and alone, near-comatose drunks as well as the ones who talk to invisible people.

It's cos of that bloody bus and tram station. People come in from all over GMR to lull around town and the gardens is the first port of call because it's right there. The hobos love it too as they've got a large amount of people to beg from.

The dodgy characters, shitty plaza, shitty claustrophobic overshadowing 1 Piccadilly Gardens, the stained concrete berlin wall, dreary 'motorway underpass' of a Cafe Nero, unkempt grass, intermittent fountains, huge groups of pigeons, tram lines and bus lanes, all this contributes to make Piccadilly Gardens a pile of total wank.

I completely agree. This is one of the main problems in Manchester, the huge number of scallies. I feel embarrassed sometimes showing foreign visitors around when there are yobs around shouting to each other across the street and making people feel unsafe. Piccadilly Gardens is one of the main magnets for these scrotes. This area should be a focal point of Manchester, but instead it is a very unpleasant place to be. People talk about the aspects of poor planning, such as the 'Berlin Wall', but I think the type of people it attracts are the main reason why the area is a huge failure. They are the reason that Piccadilly Gardens has a terrible atmosphere. Of course, being in the shadow of possibly one of the world's ugliest buildings- the Jarvis Hotel doesn't help. And as for the bus station, it does indeed attract people who come to do nothing in particular and these people tend not to go very far and end up congregating around Piccadilly Gardens.

Will those green windows be going anyone?

Sunley today :)

http://eb.cx/q2/2005-08-20/sunley.jpg

Excellent, now they can start on the zig-zag bit :)

Another pic of City Tower - looking classy glassy in the sun.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b60/cnb17780/IMAG0032.jpg

Thats the best pic yet of the cladding, the glass seems to have had a good cleaning, looks spankin new.. also the black looks good as its not painted but shiny! makes it look really nice, I just hope the sides aren't a let down.. Overall though, a big thumbs up from Fergie :)

You know, ferg, I think you're right. It doesn't look bad at all. Be even better when they sort out the top bit and cover up the concrete on the sides

Although the render shows the sides gray/white I have a horrible feeling they will decide to paint them black. The grayish white sides would make it look like the UN tower in NY

I don't understand what they have done, have they cleaned the windows and repainted?? I may need a before and after pic, for it too sink in my late night noggin' lol

They've removed the white cladded panels below the window, and replaced them with black shiney panels.. thats all so far.

Word of caution!

Don't be fooled!

Go round the back of the plaza and get a close up of the work!

Apart from changing the bottom panels to black, Bruntwood have done nothing else! The metal window frames are still the same and are in very poor condition. The back of plaza is dreadful and nothing else has been refurbished yet! Yes, the refurb looks great from a distance, but look at it close up, and you will be very dissapointed like I was!

I reserve judgement!

..edited

Oh stop getting ya knickers in a twist,its only just started if Bruntwood painted the fucker bright pink it would be a massive improvment on what it was,,,

Replacing the panels with black ones has made a load of difference. It's still an eyesore, until they (might) sort out the top and the concrete sides. What a fuckin dump it's always been.....) Practically ever since it was built IMO

The Portland Tower is another Bruntwood dump. Painted black on one side, and commonwealth games yellow on the other, it looks like shit

Oh here we go. And the Arndale, and North Tower, and Lowry House, and the Maths Tower. Then it'll be CIS and the rest, and we can all fuck off to Florence.

Oh here we go. And the Arndale, and North Tower, and Lowry House, and the Maths Tower. Then it'll be CIS and the rest, and we can all fuck off to Florence.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

LOL. I think I'm the only person in Manc who likes the Arndale Tower! And the Maths Tower (shame IMO)

Why Florence? It's a bit provincial. More like Rome. If they knocked Sunley down and transported the Pantheon in its place brick by brick, that'd do me....)

..edited

Will those green windows be going anyone?


Hello!
Take it recladding then is the next green?

LOL. I think I'm the only person in Manc who likes the Arndale Tower! And the Maths Tower (shame IMO)


No, I too like the Arndale Tower, and glad we still have it to contrast against all the newer towers (I also like St Alberts (or whatever its called), Lowry House etc.. just as their slighty unatractiveness adds to the skyline and stops it being too generic.

i loved the maths tower, but it's going!:cry: one of the greateest views ever! gone!

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y122/richardjamesbrowning/quality.jpg

Is it just me, or does that yellow streak of piss on the skyline ruin it?? Have a pop if you want to, just my honest opinion.

I very proudly drove an Aussie mate through town on Monday, his first visit to the UK, and he was mightily impressed (or just being polite?). I can't repeat what he said about the Portland Tower though.

Rolybling - I love what they're doing to the CIS. I thought it was top before the solar panels.

To be fair, whether or not it's a cheapo job, Sunley is going to look OK when finished......trust me. I just think that this building is so prominent, that it deserves a proper job. (that's all Farsight, it's got nowt to do with wanting to live in an Italianesque theme park)

I don't know how old you guys are, but I remember Sunley from the early 70s. It's never worked, and never achieved what it was supposed to. Maybe it will from now on, especially if they open the podium up a bit.

Like I keep sayin, all these cities like NYC etc didn't get bulked up skylines by remodifying their existing towers all the time.. Any city will have bad towers, it just happens.. Neither the Ardnale or Portland insult me to that extent, not even its yellow strip down the side.. fact is I'd rather see more concentration going into some new towers at the mo, then worry about the uglies..

Although the render shows the sides gray/white I have a horrible feeling they will decide to paint them black. The grayish white sides would make it look like the UN tower in NY

I think it would look good all black. Anyone agree?

Big, bold and black on the skyline.. yes, but at the same time I'd worry that it was becoming a bit too dark and oppressive what with Portland being so dark too.. and in the darker months we need all the help we can to brighten the place up..

I agree about that putrid yellow side on Portland,get it painted for fucks sake Bruntwood,,i just dont understand why they kept that yellow

I think it would look good all black. Anyone agree?
The shiney black panels are an improvement because the fact they are shiney but if they paint the sides black with that grim tar like paint that is on portland it will make the area very oppressive. Wouldnt they then have to paint the podum black as well ...how fucking depressing. As for the portland tower no wonder jongemans aussie mate critisized it. Its the worst tower block ever. Painting it matt black was a big mistake IMO.

yes they need to get that shit off the top and have flood lights shining up in to the sky from the top of it.

yes they need to get that shit off the top and have flood lights shining up in to the sky from the top of it.

Anyone know if they are actually gonna take "that shit" off the roof?

The shiney black panels are an improvement because the fact they are shiney but if they paint the sides black with that grim tar like paint that is on portland it will make the area very oppressive. Wouldnt they then have to paint the podum black as well ...how fucking depressing. As for the portland tower no wonder jongemans aussie mate critisized it. Its the worst tower block ever. Painting it matt black was a big mistake IMO.
I actually think the Portland colour scheme is an improvement...

http://eb.cx/q2/2005-08-20/portland.jpg

I agree. Portland didnt look too bad pre-repaint, but the new colour scheme is a massive improvement. The CWG logo and countdown clock would have had to be removed eventually, but I'm pleased they kept the yellow.

why are you pleased they kept the yellow,it looks ridiculous,it should be the same as the other side

Ferge - re your comment about worrying about the uglies at a later date. Yeah, I see your point.

Obviously the yellow side of Portland offends some people, and pleases others, so we'll just have to learn to live with it.

To me, the big point is this. Until the 1990s, Manchester had to make do with relatively cheaply built office blocks. When the economy went into a massive dive from the 60s, this was basically all we could expect. There are some notable exceptions, like the Nat West Regional HQ on King St, but in general, they were cheaper than what you'd expect in London. I sincerely hope there are no more, ever. They're not good enough for Manchester.

I'll shut up now. As soon as you see me mention the L (ondon) word, you know I'm starting to have a rant....lol

When I see the yellow on the skyline, I think it stands out quite nicely. It's never made me think negatively of it. It's good to have a different colour on the skyline, other than grey, black or glass. It will be good after we get our other towers constructed, and see what effect is does to the mancunian skyline then ;)

The yellow and black contrast quite well, and although not ideal, a vast improvement on how it looked before. It looked good (as did Sunley) with the huge Commonwealth Games banners down the side.

Take the point about Sunley/City, it would be better to replace all the windows rather than give it the cosmetic job it's having now. And ideally, it would be great to get rid of the whole complex and start again and have something truly special for somewhere so central. But Bruntwood probably can't afford to start again and are unlikely to sell. In the meantime, it will at least look slightly more demure from a distance. Just don't look too closely...

roly: the Florence comment was to do with people who say their favourite building (see thread) is something old and stone, and say one highrise after another is irredeemable and should be demolished. The end product is pretty, but a museum piece like Florence. Not a skyscraper city fit for 21st Century living.

I like yellow, and think Portland looks pretty good. It's a rectangular functional block, and anybody who says it should be demolished rather than improved to suit their taste is basically saying buildings cannot be rectangular. Silly.

Actually I'd like to see more colour on the skyline. I think it's a bit of a pity that Sunley has lost its green, but it's looking better already. I do hope they lose the crap on top though.

Portland is horrid. The black has smartend it up somewhat but that combination of GREY and BLACK and YELLOW is horrible. Im all for colourful buildings but for god's sake paint over that yellow stripe. Not a nice combination.


I like yellow, and think Portland looks pretty good. It's a rectangular functional block, and anybody who says it should be demolished rather than improved to suit their taste is basically saying buildings cannot be rectangular. Silly.


Well there are rectangles and there are rectangles arn't there Farsight? This particular rectangle was flung up on the cheap in the 60s/70s and frankly doesn't merit preserving. Same for Ramada. Cheap, careless, thoughtless design. The people that erected these buildings did not care about producing the best building they possibly could, they cared only about their bottom line and boy does it show. Compare and contrast with the CIS and you will see the gulf in class.

As for Sunley well shear off all the associated clutter such as the podium, Bernard House and the Jarvis Hotel and it might be halfway respectable.... It might, just might hold its own alongside some large shiny new buildings built to replace the aforementioned clutter (and built to provide a proper frontage to the large space they border)

A very interesting article in the MEN this week reported on Women's response to our city centre. One of the clear overriding messages that came out of the survey was they they wanted to "scrap" Piccadilly Gardens because they didnt feel safe using the area. I suggest this is in no small part down to the lack of smallscale intimacy and quality of space. It feels like a very "inhuman" space and this feeling can be put down to a number of reasons - one of the biggest being the surrounding buildings that define and enclose the space simply do not do their job.

i loved the maths tower, but it's going!:cry: one of the greateest views ever! gone!

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y122/richardjamesbrowning/quality.jpg


I'm sorry but I like that yellow strip on the skyline. It's distinctive and stands out well, and is instantly identiable.

I think we could go on forever about the Portland Tower. It's all about aesthetics and individual appreciation. The CIS is 60s quality, Peter House represents the 1950s really well, Sunley was very bold and its recladding is about 20 years overdue (but the south elevation is starting to look pretty good from a distance), the Arndale Tower looks solid, expensive and dependable to me. Portland looks cheap, but hey.

Slight change of subject.......the CIS is going to look bloody magnificent when those blue panels are fully installed. I can't wait to see the finished product.....a total iconic modern Manchester building if ever there was one........does anyone agree?

I think we could go on forever about the Portland Tower. It's all about aesthetics and individual appreciation. The CIS is 60s quality, Peter House represents the 1950s really well, Sunley was very bold and its recladding is about 20 years overdue (but the south elevation is starting to look pretty good from a distance), the Arndale Tower looks solid, expensive and dependable to me. Portland looks cheap, but hey.

Slight change of subject.......the CIS is going to look bloody magnificent when those blue panels are fully installed. I can't wait to see the finished product.....a total iconic modern Manchester building if ever there was one........does anyone agree?
Totally agree jongeman. The CIS was Manchester's---nay the country's first 'real' tall skyscraper. Glass-curtain buildings were a fairly new concept then (1962) even in N.America. I remember it going up and talking to steel-erectors, some of who were contracted in from Canada and the US as the UK lacked experience in high-rise then.
There was a true feeling of renaissance at that time at the beginning of the so-called 'swinging 60's'. I don't know what went wrong throughout the ensuing decades, maybe the concentration of investment and wealth to the capital was the death knell for the northern cities and towns.
I'm afraid we will only feed on crumbs as long as the current political structure remains. The MP's representing Greater Manchester should be pressured into forming a bloc to push for GM to become one, autonomous unit. You would think that the powerful GM Chamber of Commerce could also initiate a strong enough voice to lobby parliament for this.
It's obvious there is a fear from central government that regions raising their own taxes will reduce the power they currently wield over 'the provinces'. Why should a Deputy Prime Minister have the power to veto a business decision made by a local council? Could it be a 'flexing of muscles' by CG to kerb 'rampant uncontrolled growth' in Stockport? Would he have gotten away with it if he were taking on the whole of GM and not just a tenth?
It's no fluke the 'Get back on track' campaign is having more success and it just happens to involve some of the other GM councils, speaking with one voice. It can be done, it has to be done or the rot will set in once again.

Would he have gotten away with it if he were taking on the whole of GM and not just a tenth?

Sir Miles - Quite topical following this weeks news of GM's ten boroughs 'matrimonial' taking on of the government re the deportation trial 'law'.
Taster of things to come?

Oh and welcome Jongeman...you remind me of an infamous board member (but with the bitterness and chips removed) who used to tread in this enemy territory :)

I agree jongeman - CIS will be great.

SleepyOne: One of the clear overriding messages that came out of the survey was they they wanted to "scrap" Piccadilly Gardens because they didnt feel safe using the area. I suggest this is in no small part down to the lack of smallscale intimacy and quality of space. It feels like a very "inhuman" space and this feeling can be put down to a number of reasons - one of the biggest being the surrounding buildings that define and enclose the space simply do not do their job.

I dislike the way you dig up vacuous reasons to rubbish some highrise or other while deliberately ignoring the real problem. Listen up. Piccadilly Gardens is uncomfortable because of the bus station and scroats, not because of "buildings defining the space". Indeed the bus station and the scroats make the buildings less desirable and more likely to remain unimproved. More paved connection to the surrounding streets would also help. Discuss.

Portland is horrid. The black has smartend it up somewhat but that combination of GREY and BLACK and YELLOW is horrible. Im all for colourful buildings but for god's sake paint over that yellow stripe. Not a nice combination.
Everyone to their own mancfan, but if I had it my way, I would paint over the grey side with the yellow too. It really does add some diversity to the skyline and makes the building look a lot nicer. I am pretty sure that if the yellow was painted over with the grey, Portland Street would look a lot worse, especially in the winter months.
If it was the same mustard yellow as the Arndale, then I would agree.
I think the yellow works really well with the black, like a bumble-bee :yes:

It seems to be parts of the Gardens which detract from it rather than the whole. Sitting by 1 Piccadilly Gardens having a coffee recently was very pleasant, but over by the bus station it's pretty rank.

Walking up Potland Street yesterday I was dismayed at the state of the podium around City Tower. Some of it is truly disgraceful. Take on earlier comments about the reclad as well, Had a look at that and it's not so great close up

I think we are in agreeance that certain parts of Piccadilly do need to be brought up to scratch. All in good time, the reclad is one step towards creating a better environment.

In terms of buildings affecting the Gardens, the hotel is the major problem. Its a great pity there are no plans to demolish/redevelop it.

There is a such a huge contrast between areas like Piccadilly Gardens, overlooked by the monstrous City Tower and the hideous hotel and areas such as Albert Square and St Ann's Square which really are impressive and fitting for a city of Manchester's class.

I saw sunley clsoe up too, today as it goes...Frankly i am utterley shocked at the quality...Why the fuck do bruntwood bother..? Okay its not finnished...but its not setup atall to follow reclads such as CIS, which every building with a presence in manc derserves...

Manchester deserves so much more than this, we are better than this...we should petition...Anyone?

Manc Guy...

When Beetham, Eastgate, 1HS and all the rest are finished, Sunley (or the excitingly named City Tower.....uh??) will hopefully fade into obscurity.

I haven't actually been into town for months, not on foot anyway, but I still think that what they're doing to it is an improvement.

I know what you mean about petitioning though. Nobody bothered to complain when the original proposed proper re-clad was cancelled in favour of this new cheaper paint job.

When you think about it, they could in reality do whatever they wanted with Sunley, but obviously they can't afford to. Give it another 10 years mate

They can afford to do something great with Sunley. They just don't want to.

They can afford to do something great with Sunley. They just don't want to.
Which could indicate that it's destined for demolition, along with the Jarvis.
I can see Piccadilly being one gigantic construction zone within the next 5-10 years. When it's rebuilt you will not recognise this whole district.
Which will be nice.....

caw123....yeah, of course they can afford to. (not sure why I thought otherwise tbh)

Maybe in reality a large part of the problem is the cost and logistics of removing it. I'm just summising. I ain't got a clue how you'd demolish a building like that in such a strategic location. Where's the Luftwaffe when you need them eh?

In terms of its eventual replacement, would anyone object to having a couple of stunning low rises in its place instead? I ask because hopefully by that time, Manchester will be ringed by big towers

Maybe in reality a large part of the problem is the cost and logistics of removing it. I'm just summising. I ain't got a clue how you'd demolish a building like that in such a strategic location. Where's the Luftwaffe when you need them eh?

It could be done easily. Buildings have been imploded in far more risky situations than Sunley. To demolish a building like that you must do what they are doing to the Maths Tower - floor by floor de-construction.

SMP - A sign of demolition? I think not, Bruntwood have set up their HQ there after all, the fact that they didn't exactly break the bank with the renovation is typical of them, but it is a bit early to say, we haven't seen the new side cladding and oriel windows yet, could turn out something half decent.

I drove past Sunley today, and my gut feeling was that it's a massive improvement. Can't quite put my finger on why.........Bloody hell, I think I liked it

Came home and had a stiff drink

As been mentioned in a previous post, one thing that does bring it down to it's knees is that ghastly hotel. It's dirty looking, and I don't like the way it overhangs. I hope they renovate or even demolish it.

Should we not past judgement until the sides painted and the top tidied up and the oriel windows fitted etc. and is there some sort of blade being put up to hide the aerials? and dont forget the two spires that are on the renders...could end up looking quite good considering. I would hate to see it demolished unless another scraper was going there.

I still think that eventually it will be blown down. Bruntwood will sell it on to a mega-developer who will have massive (city fan :) ) plans for this extremely prime piece of real estate. I can see it being the site for the 'jewel in manchesters crown' because of its central location.

Maybe the council will spend zillions to buy it and build a nice park/garden for all its beloved citizens.?

The reclad is gonna be nice, but sooo much more could be done for the whole area. When im a millionaire, I'll chip in.

If Sunley comes down it maybe replaced by some boring low rise plan.

If Sunley comes down it maybe replaced by some boring low rise plan.

Alternatively it could be replaced by a 300m+ ultra modern bobby dazzler! :shocked: They have to knock down the mini-berlin wall though aswell

Bah, certain people would fight tooth and nail against a skyscraper replacement. The replacement would be some boring low rise shed, and selfsame certain people would be waxing lyrical about how wonderful and world class it was.

Anyhow, come on guys, wake up. Nobody's going to spend big money next to some greasy scroat bus station. Forget it.

Why anyone would wax lyrical about a shed is beyond me.

I went into Manchester this morning, took pics of just about everything except Sunley.
Piccadilly Gardens was full of piss heads, tramps and litter.
It's a tramps bedroom.

I'm glad we've got Sunley, cos it's tall and I like tall and Manchester just wouldn't be Manchester to me, without it.

But I agree with anyone who says this area is an arm-pit, espeically the Hotel.

I got the fuck out of there as soon as I could. :runaway:

Bruntwood have certainly got their work cut out on this part of Sunley! :eek2:

The offices/rooms below the dishes are all empty and seem to be full of junk!

Photo from Aidens site!

http://aidan.co.uk/lg/ManPiccPlazaTwrZZm5822.jpg

I'm not sure they ever were offices jrb, someone came on here a while ago who seemed to know alot about this and said the top floors were used for water tanks and heaters and stuff, plant floors.

Will Bruntwood plug that gap? Wonder who kicked that in.
http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/164CityTower_pic3.jpg

Why anyone would wax lyrical about a shed is beyond me.

LOL, but the Express Building is a bit of a shed, and look at that eh!

I've always wondered what I'd like to see replace the Picc Plaza and the conclusion I came to was a tower just like The Bank of America in San Francisco. That tapered one. It's like sex on a fuckin podium :)

Me and the missus sneaked up the bank of america building when we were in SF a few years ago. We used the exuse of wanting to go in the skybar but we never got past a snooty lady at the top who said it was only open for 'afternoon cocktails' in half an hour so we went back down and didnt get see any views. Apparenty the Sunley tower is haunted. Key 103 then known as piccadilly radio used to have their studios in there and there were often strange things happing in there during the late night shows according to some of the presenters. I remember james stannage saying there was something about the place on his late talk shows and that it gave him the creeps.

Looking down Sackville St
http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/164CityTower_pic35.jpg

Anyone like the pannels? :(

i think the panels have made a huge difference,i really do think the end result will be very good

I think the panels are OK. The building is definitely looking better. Now I'm waiting to see what they do with the scruffy bit up top and all them messy dishes.

Looking down Sackville St
http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/164CityTower_pic35.jpg


ahh, my favourite view of sunley.

Fabulous :D

Dose anybody know whats happening with that crappy cladding up the side of the tower.
It must go.

this:
http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/164CityTower_pic14.jpg

Yes, they are slapping on a bit of whitewash, just after they paint the top glazing panels with some mat blackboard paint.

Also, in exchange for a discount on 50,000 buckets of white paint, Bruntwood have agreed to hang a 350ft high photo of the Dulux dog down one side of the building:
http://www.cash-save.co.uk/dulux_dog.jpg

Looks good enough to me. Sure it could be flashier, but I think we're lucky to get anything while that greasy scroatbag bus station is there to put everybody off.

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/164CityTower_pic14.jpg

Why couldn't they've just done away with that "street" linking York St with the bus station? A nice open walkway between th hotel section of plaza and a new front of the tower would've helped shedloads, breaking the monotony of the disgusting podium. Instead they're just tarting up the existing corridor and...well Christ knows what the hell's going on with the outside. A concrete wall (which makes little sense) bookended with 2 lcd screens that don't really appear that big. And then that bizarre entrance to the new street. What's going on with the roof? Reminds me of the tacky overhangs the Arndale entrances were always blighted with.

Having not seen it in person, I can't say owt about the quality of the reclad other than from the pics I've seen here. I like the black panels, it's changed shedloads already. But the sides really should not be white. Concrete looks rank when it rains. Those sides will look pretty awful when it's not a sunny day.

And I'm skeptical about what they'll do with the roof. I have a feeling they'll pull out of the tidying up with a lovely red glowing thing idea.

And those box windows on the side. Why?

It's not really a reclad dgnr8. It's a bit of a makeover. Yeah, it's not as nice as what might have been, but still, it's an improvement. With the other stuff, there's no point of opening up a street if tramps and junkies will piss and puke all over it. It's that bus station effect again, drives away quality. And yeah go on then, it does look like it needs tidying up bottom left of Sunley/City tower.

I think the oriel windows are supposed to offer views and break up the slab effect. I like 'em.

Yuck, that York Street entrance looks a right mess doesn't it.

It does a bit. But maybe it'll be OK from ground level. Not that any self respecting big cheese is going to park his limo anywhere near that bus station. Even if he were able to. That's what you need for a quality buildings and good tenants - limousine roadspace. Anyhow. Architecturally there's too much bittyness, even in that newer building on the right that replaced Bernard House. Honestly, you'd think architects understood the beauty of clean lines by now.

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/164CityTower_pic14.jpg


Seriously....is that what its really going to look like when its finished or is it some seriously over optimistic old render???.....

If thats what it is gonna look like then all things considered, its not bad given the area and surrounding buildings

I dont think any of can complain really seeing that its been a complete shit hole for the last 30 years,paint the bastard pink and it would have improved it.

We can complain, because in 20 years time when I drive past in my ferrari/stagger past with my rum in hand the building will be filthy and crumbling again. Maybe they should've taken the oppurtunity to replace it. A major overhaul of the gardens and the plaza + the office blocks on York Street should've been carried out, whole lot in one go.

I would'nt argue with that CAW ,but we dont always get everything we want in life matey, an improvement on what we did have, is fine for now who know's what might happen in the future.
Im hope in 20 years City tower wont be that noticable anyway cos it will be surrounded be wonderful new building's .. (now wheres my cornflakes)

Caw: And who's gonna replace it with all them winos staggering past with rum in their hands. Kapiche?

It's getting a thumbs up from me (so far)

Making the best of a bad job.

..edited

Huh? Are you some heritage highrise hater or something?

What's rank is that crap old brick building on the left beyond the railway bridge. It absolutely ruins the scene.

cant make my mind up on this 1; i think it looks reasonably good up close (the black panelling), but a bit odd from a distance

Huh? Are you some heritage highrise hater or something?

What's rank is that crap old brick building on the left beyond the railway bridge. It absolutely ruins the scene.
*sigh* Here we go for the fifteenth billion time... :no:

Are they Changing the windows? From the render they seem to look different...

Post deleted.

..edited

Not sure about the black look...the light colour before made the building stand out..it is possibly too dark for its blunt shape?

A contrast was needed, perhaps only now is that becoming apparent...maybe the original was, although a poor design, the right colour...which is a crucial factor in a building so prominent?

Hopefully when the top is sorted, windows finished and lighting done it will look better......certainly than a yellow sided Portland!

Sure they could look a lot nicer roly. It would be nice to see a total top-quality gleaming reclad, maybe along the lines of Beetham or CJC. But it's an imperfect world, money counts, the location isn't quite prime, and IMHO they look a whole lot better than they did. Maybe Bruntwood will do the top notch job at some future date, if say they got rid of the Piccadilly Gardens bus station.

Are they Changing the windows? From the render they seem to look different...

Yes they have, I think.

Took this close up but it corrupted upon upload and some of it is pink; wasn't gonna show it until I've reuploaded but it's still being pissy, so here it is anyway, some of the windows have 'X' on them, suggest they're new dunnit?
http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/164CityTower_pic36.jpg

Caw: And who's gonna replace it with all them winos staggering past with rum in their hands. Kapiche?

Plenty of people.
The Bank of New York weren't put off moving into 1 Piccadilly Gdns by the groups of drunks that'll be sleeping in their own filth on their very doorstep, nor were they put off by the bus station.

Yes they have, I think.

Took this close up but it corrupted upon upload and some of it is pink; wasn't gonna show it until I've reuploaded but it's still being pissy, so here it is anyway, some of the windows have 'X' on them, suggest they're new dunnit?
http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/164CityTower_pic36.jpg


I asked this question twice but got ignored. :sleepy:

Which question mate? About the window panes?

I haven't got close enough to Sunley recently to work out precisely what they're doing to it. I assume some of the windows are new, but I'm not sure about the frames/struts.

So far only the south elevation has been done, and it looks altogether more solid, don't you think?

Reckon I'm going to be really pleased with it when it's finished

The black panels just seem to make it disappear off the skyline!
Apart from at night when it's all lit up...i think it's just going to look really bland.
Now that portland and city towers are both black...they're blending into the skyline and not really standing out much.
I think it would have looked better with the panels roughly the same colour as the windows so that it was the same all the way up and no stripes.
So more like a greeny/torquoise colour.
But i suppose we're going to have enough green on our skyline soon anyway.
It would be darker green though.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v459/ecrayon/568764632vvb.jpg

i went down town yesterday for a mooch with the wife, had a look at sunley with me own eyes and i have to say........it looks shite. makes it more dull.
my misses even said to me, which are the new ones and the ones that are being replaced. she too agreed that the original light bluey cladding looked better.
its going to be one hell of a dull building when its complete. lets hope they dont paint the side white. it will be dirty within a fortnight.

does anyone remember when sunley used to have its floor lights on a sync display?
is was fookin ace, it didnt last very long. may be it was too expensive to replace bulbs, cos u gunna blow so many, switchin em on + off, 500 times a night.

I bob'ed in the temple bar, u know that underground little bar that used to be toilets.
its gotta fookin rockin juke box.

COME ON GUYS, WE HAVE JUST GOT TO MEET UP DOWN TOWN FOR A FEW BEERS AND A CHAT. We can all wear pin badges with or names on :)
i promise i wont get violent, as long as im not drinkin stella (they dont call it 'wife beater' 4 nuffin)
some of the gay bars av BOGOF during weekdays, im even prepared to skip alf a work day. but only for a good turn out. i dont wanna get there and find a single lonesome brum or a scouser there (complete with lacoste shellsuit)
I think i will start a poll, i might even be the ring leader and round up the troops.

^^ naaah - u sound like a complete weirdo 2 me m8


:D

I'll wait till its finished before I make an opinion. It's the side (ie meaning the thin narrow angle) profile that I'm concerned about - even the new renders continue the tradition of ugly. Still I'd rather they had clad the tower in reflective mirror, silver, blue or gold and act to reflect the city with its glassy, sleek exterior. Be sort of like a Manchester version of Boston's John Hancock Tower - a tall and sleek building that simple and timeless looking.

Then again, I suppose the problem with a mirrored looking Sunley would be reflecting the Jarvis Hotel on one side. The Jarvis hotel chain be shamed into a major refurb in no time. Its like holding a mirror up to a really ugly person and saying 'you need some work done girl' Talk about a 60's baby who's looks have gone to seed.

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/234LeMeridienPalaceHotel_pic6.jpg

In the fog.

epic :eek2: , i'm loving the fog we're getting at the moment.

Sunley looking evil yesterday
http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/164CityTower_pic37.jpg

They need to replace the glass too. From the renders I was under the impression that it would look pretty much black with white sides and a big red sign on top. The renders looked better than what I envisage right now.

This 'reclad' is looking rediculous to the extreme, from a distance, Sunley is looking like a huge monolith sitting in the middle of the city, very unattractive, get the sides painted bruntie. Bah.

Its always been the sides and top mainly that have made sunley the ugly brute that it is, until these are improved it will still look awful. Still optimistic about the end result.

From this morning....

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/pookey1967/sunley1809.jpg

25 September 2005
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y60/ManchesterImages/City%20Tower/DSC05510.jpg

Cheers, thanks for the updates, Diggler - and the pics in the other threads ;)

Looks as if they have started to replace the windows at the top + the cantalier thingy is near the very top; perhaps they are beginning to sort that out now

I know many will disagree but I hope they do paint the sides beige/white as the renders are. this will make it look like the UN tower in New York which I like. I didn't realise that our Beetham will be taller than the UN tower...wow

Is Beetham really taller than the UN building?! I thought the UN had at least 70 floors!

I have to disagree completely. I think painting the sides white will only make it look cheap and tacky - plus a magnet for further grime. Last but not least it will reduce the diversity have our towers since we already have a number of plane white towers.. For me changing Sunley so radically is close to being blasphemous..

Is Beetham really taller than the UN building?! I thought the UN had at least 70 floors!

Its only got 40 storeys

Is Beetham really taller than the UN building?! I thought the UN had at least 70 floors!

39 floors and 154m tall:
http://arthur.keksdose.net/archives/images/20040429UN1.jpg

Aidans Pic Plaza article: http://www.aidan.co.uk/article_piccadilly_plaza_renovation.htm

Zoom view of his showing the new crappy looking plastic material that's gone on the zig zag bits:
http://www.aidan.co.uk/lg/ManPiccPlazTwrZm5930.jpg

If this makeover makes Sunley look anything like the UN tower I´ll eat my hat. Look at the large renders at the entrance to Sunley - looks fackin naf!

cottonopolis I have to disagree completely. I think painting the sides white will only make it look cheap and tacky - plus a magnet for further grime. Last but not least it will reduce the diversity have our towers since we already have a number of plane white towers.. For me changing Sunley so radically is close to being blasphemous.. My house is painted porcelain white, so I know what you mean. Maybe a simple clean or a buff wash would be better? Whatever they do to Sunley, and even if it's not the expensive job originally mooted, IMHO it will look clean tidy and a whole lot better than it did.

caw: that's a good article by Aiden. Thanks for the link. It sure would be nice if Sunley looked as good as the UN building.

http://www.aidan.co.uk/md/T4cNyUnManPic5414_5609.jpg

We've already gathered that it's goin to look nothing like the renders

http://www.aidan.co.uk/md/ManCityTwrBruntwd2x4917.jpg

maybe they're gonna do something different with the sides?

What? Since when is it going to look nothing like the renders?

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/164CityTower_pic14.jpg

I forgot about that one. Well the one i posted had blue cladding.

And can I agree with changing the panels - just a shame they´re so fucking dull, will look great against our dark skies. But just cleaning the sides would have been so much better than cheap looking white that now make it look like 111 piccadilly, north tower and Albert house. Completely wiped sunley of any character!

Read up on this Keim paint they're going to use, cotton. It's stone in a can. It won't look cheap, honest. And it lasts.

http://www.deslinc.com/keim_paint_characteristics.htm


http://www.aidan.co.uk/article_piccadilly_plaza_renovation.htm

Is that what they're definitely doing?
I though they were going to carry out a subtle sandblast as advised by Stephenson Bell?

http://www.stephenson-bell.com/piccadillyplaza.html

I see the UN tower also has a 'berlin wall' underneath it - coincidence?

Cheers Farsight. If it does get that "Pearly" effect then maybe this won´t be so bad. I´ll hold back on my anger until this is finished then. Am still extremely sceptical though..

Bizarre:
For many years, the Piccadilly Hotel had no street entrance. It was thought that in the future, all visitors would be arriving by car. Until the street entrance was opened, hotel guests arriving on foot to walk up the spiral ramp clutching their luggage.

The first floor piazza was to have linked up with neighbouring buildings via all-weather pedestrian bridges, similar to those in Minneapolis. The other buildings were never completed and the piazza remained cut off.

Peregrine falcons once nested in the tower. As part of the refurbishment, a nesting box will be installed to encourage them to return. It is planned to have a tv camera with pictures relayed to a big screen on the podium below.
Cheers for the links Farsight.

Cotton... :lol: Very Mancunian!

if it looks anything like that render Caw posted i will be more than happy!!

That paint is pure magic!

I have to disagree completely. I think painting the sides white will only make it look cheap and tacky - plus a magnet for further grime. Last but not least it will reduce the diversity have our towers since we already have a number of plane white towers.. For me changing Sunley so radically is close to being blasphemous..
I dont mean dulux brilliant white that would look ridiculous, but something more subtle.Personally I think a good sandblast would do the trick but please bruntwood don't paint it with that fucking black tar paint like on Portland.

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/164CityTower_pic14.jpg

Please, let it end up looking like this..http://forums.ratedesi.com/images/smilies/eusa_pray.gif I like this render alot. :)

^ Agree

Intersting stuff about Sunley / UN Building - was in NY a couple of weeks ago and was struck at the similarities between the two buildings. Not too much difference in scale between the two in the flesh. Actually Sunley Tower is a crackin building just needs a bit of attention.
Since they were from a similar era, I wonder if the architect of Sunley had a picture of the UN bldg on the desk when s/he was designing it?

OMG that is a fantastic render :uh: :uh: :uh: I've always liked Sunley whatever the state of it's facade, it just seems to have a prescence that CIS never had IMO.....but that render looks superb lets hope it's that one

Lookin Up: Probably not. There's loads of rectangles kickin' around. It says here it was designed by Covell Matthews & Partners.

http://www.manchester2002-uk.com/buildings/20th-century.html

...and here it says the UN building was designed by Le Corbusier. I never knew that.

http://architecture.about.com/library/blunited_nations-corbusier.htm

He's particularly known for his "brutalist" exposed bulk structural concrete style, and the Jarvis Hotel is definitely in that mould. So hmmn, yes, you know I reckon you're right. Piccadilly Plaza probably is "in the style of Le Corbusier".

Jeez, list it!

just that when you see it in the flesh particularly coming over the Harlem River you think 'Christ what's Sunley doing there?'. Mind you the drinks were free on the flight.....

No there's no doubt that Sunley looks like the UN building.

It's a bit of a brutal coincidence, IMHO

I HATE LE CORBUSIER!!!

if it wern't for him a generation of architects might have been able to show originality.

Hi Guys,

As this is my first post thought I would bring some good news. Walked passed the Portland Bar under the Piccadilly Jarvis hotel on Saturday. The place was shut with a sign on the door stating " Closed due to pending refurbishment of Piccadilly Jarvis Hotel". Lets hope its not too long befoer they start.

I HATE LE CORBUSIER!!!

if it wern't for him a generation of architects might have been able to show originality.
To be fair, Le Corbusier was quite original, he really pioneered modernism. Most of the buildings he designed are actually brilliant quality. I have no problem with Le Corbusier, what I hate is that fact that so many people made CHEAP copies in the 'style' of his buildings. Like any other architecture there are good modernist buildings and there are bad ones. Le Corbusier's ones were usually really good quality.
Sunley and CIS are both good modernist buildings (although I don't like Jarvis Hotel) IMO. Sunley's looking tired now and that's why it's getting a reclad but that doesn't make it a bad building.

true, but im talking about the style not quality, its the generic look of his schemes (didn't he want to destroy half of Paris a historic quarter and rebuilding six cemetrical towers?) its that part i dont like, i prefer the more eclectic mix of the new york skyline, which le Corbusier detested...

That's how architecture is, Rich. It is sometimes a slave to fashion. Sometimes it's architects who copy stuff, and sometimes the client demands it.

Hi Guys,

As this is my first post thought I would bring some good news. Walked passed the Portland Bar under the Piccadilly Jarvis hotel on Saturday. The place was shut with a sign on the door stating " Closed due to pending refurbishment of Piccadilly Jarvis Hotel". Lets hope its not too long befoer they start.


Welcome Legin,,, I work just facing that Piccadilly hotel, you are right the ugly fucker's face lift is starting, scafflolding is going up on the Portland St end

Are we sure that this isn't just for the podium section though and not the entire hotel?

They've now replaced the windows on the recessed floor under the zig zag glass at the top of the tower. On the hotel side.

Do you take me for a fool young CAW, :)

There as been at lot of activity on TOP of the podium today, around the base of the hotel, and scaffoling is going up i seen it with my own fair eyes .

I saw it today too! I hope you're right, it's just we haven't heard any kind of detail about a hotel reclad.

I do beleive it will involve some black panels and some old white paint found in the alotments.

I was thinking - wouldnt be good tohave neons signs (ala piccadilly circus, but obv. not on that scale) around the base of the podium? surely enough people pass there (with the bus station etc) to make it comercially possible?

Good news aout the Jarvis Hotel, thanks guys, fingers crossed.

I'll take some pics on Wednesday!

Im torn about any refub of the Jarvis. On one hand it desperately needs some kind of refurbishment but on the other hand its prolonging the stay of execution of a building that desperately needs to be dropped. For the good of Manchester it needs to be dropped - podium and all.

Regarding Sunley what I think would look cool is if they put in a vivid, illuminated red stripe of cladding in that void (if it is a void) beneath the zig-zag black panels at the top. That would look excellent lit up at night and would tie in nicely with the inevitable Bruntwood branding.

I was thinking - wouldnt be good tohave neons signs (ala piccadilly circus, but obv. not on that scale) around the base of the podium? surely enough people pass there (with the bus station etc) to make it comercially possible?

The Picc Circus neon signs aren't really that big. I've always thought we should have an area where this sort of thing is accommodated. I noticed in Melbourne in April that one building had a large Emirates sign on it. Bearing in mind that Emirates fly about the same number of people to and from both MAN and MEL, similar advertising should be encouraged here. Would certainly brighten the place up in mid-winter.

I was thinking - wouldnt be good tohave neons signs (ala piccadilly circus, but obv. not on that scale) around the base of the podium? surely enough people pass there (with the bus station etc) to make it comercially possible?
That's an absolutely brilliant idea, bring back the neons. Market St, Oxford St. and Deansgate used to have tons of neon signs back in the 50's the n they seemed to go out of 'fashion'.
There could be some sort of 'frieze' wrapped around three sides of the plaza podium with news bulletins, temperature, advertizing etc similar to the stuff at NY's Times Square. I don't think the 'wall' would obscure it from street level unless some town-dwelling forumista here would check it out and prove me wrong.
The neons used to give Manchester it's 'big-city' atmosphere and a tremendous night-life buzz. (even though in the 50's I was too young to go clubbing). This concept should be suggested to the city fathers so they can encourage some media company to go for it. It's a winner....

Im torn about any refub of the Jarvis. On one hand it desperately needs some kind of refurbishment but on the other hand its prolonging the stay of execution of a building that desperately needs to be dropped. For the good of Manchester it needs to be dropped - podium and all.

Regarding Sunley what I think would look cool is if they put in a vivid, illuminated red stripe of cladding in that void (if it is a void) beneath the zig-zag black panels at the top. That would look excellent lit up at night and would tie in nicely with the inevitable Bruntwood branding.

Give it another decade Sleepy, and we'll see some redevelopment plans for the whole site, hopefully. I do think that the reclad Sunley is starting to look like a more serious business-like building (if that makes sense)

Oh yes, that inevitable Bruntwood branding. Are all those red signs really necessary? I've always intended to write to them to ask them to knock it off.....enough's enough. Anything like an illuminated red stripe would help Sunley....I think the pink lights on the Arndale tower are better than nowt.

That's an absolutely brilliant idea, bring back the neons. Market St, Oxford St. and Deansgate used to have tons of neon signs back in the 50's the n they seemed to go out of 'fashion'.
There could be some sort of 'frieze' wrapped around three sides of the plaza podium with news bulletins, temperature, advertizing etc similar to the stuff at NY's Times Square. I don't think the 'wall' would obscure it from street level unless some town-dwelling forumista here would check it out and prove me wrong.
The neons used to give Manchester it's 'big-city' atmosphere and a tremendous night-life buzz. (even though in the 50's I was too young to go clubbing). This concept should be suggested to the city fathers so they can encourage some media company to go for it. It's a winner....

A bit like the Print Works prehaps? But not as much!

http://images.google.co.uk/url?q=http://www.aidan.co.uk/md/ManUrbisPrintwks4121.jpg

http://www.mag.org.uk/magtest/images/fundraising/abseilPW/night-shot3.jpg

http://www.mag.org.uk/magtest/images/fundraising/abseilPW/night-shot2.jpg

/\ they should stick real adverts on the printworks, like a big fuck off cola one.

Oh no, much more than the Printworks.

Anything that will brighten up waiting in traffic outside that horrific hotel.

Agree with caw way more than the printworks. They should put tons of neons back down Deansgate and Oxford St. as well. Just wait til you see what these streets will look like. The 'curry mile' has got the message, right?

Not so sure about Deansgate SMP, but Portland St and its junction with Oxford St would be a good location.

Defo Deansgate! At last a good use for the Ramada site and its two ugly sisters cornering deansgate and mary'sgate. Big Tokyo/picc circus stylee lights and adverts. Prinworks needs more too.

..edited

Roly, let's just hope nobody tells Bruntwood! lol

i have to dissagree, not realy a fan of neon lights at all, we dont need them, they look a mess, and for those of you who complain about too many lamp posts imagine every other building being shrowded in brightly lit advertisements, makes me feel sick just thinking about it :wallbash:

Love neon lights put them everywhere!!!

Love neon lights put them everywhere!!!

used to have em on Sunley. Old' dgnr8 will tell ya! :)

..edited

what do you guys think of my new sunley diagram complete with re-clad?

http://skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?drawingspending

I consider Sunley to be a big building but just look at it compared to the Shanghai World Financial Center it looks like a little lego brick!