If its already been mentioned before I apologise!

Went into Smiths and had a quick look through EGI!

Theres a small article, with a rendering of the proposed 38 storey tower sited on Broad Street!

Can't F***ing remember who the developer was! Think it's Richardson or Robertson Crosswell!

shit, tried to look for an egi today but couldnt find it!...will be lokoing everywhere 2moro?

what did it look like?

thats the richardson tower.

....... lol the very one we reported on lol

what did it look like?

Woodhousen!

Erm?

Its shape is very similar to a modern day version of Sunley Tower, Manchester!

Fortunately there was no podium and the exterior was totally different of course!

I'd say it's a very safe design and is very similar to some of the towers already in Birmingham!

Thanks, but I dont think much about your detective work JRB ;) - we need renders, developers, floor space, use etc - Do your job properly next time :cheers:

Woodhousen!

Erm?

Its shape is very similar to a modern day version of Sunley Tower, Manchester!

Fortunately there was no podium and the exterior was totally different of course!

I'd say it's a very safe design and is very similar to some of the towers already in Birmingham!

Sqaure? Brown? Thin? Fat? Spire?

ohwell - another 120m at least thats good news. would've liked something a bit hgiher though, although this will look great in this area, especially if Auchlinleck house developers have proposed something big.

Thanks, but I dont think much about your detective work JRB - we need renders, developers, floor space, use etc - Do your job properly next time

Sqaure? Brown? Thin? Fat? Spire?

ohwell - another 120m at least thats good news. would've liked something a bit hgiher though, although this will look great in this area, especially if Auchlinleck house developers have proposed something big.

Tall, medium, grey, boxed shape, flatish roof, three up, two down! Getting the picture? :yes:

Give us £3.50 that man, and I'll buy a copy of EGi tomorrow and scan it for you! :)

P.S is it all residential or mixed use? If its mixed we might see it topple HCT in height, and break the so called CAA Barrier which could be all soimportant.

However the good news from this, whatever is that at least developers are building as tall as they can. Thats a good sign for the future, if and when the resticitions are lifted.

P.S is it all residential or mixed use? If its mixed we might see it topple HCT in height, and break the so called CAA Barrier which could be all soimportant.

I'm gonna start charging you soon Birminghamculture!

Mainly residential, plus hotel!(£50 please!)

I'm gonna start charging you soon Birminghamculture!

Mainly residential, plus hotel!(£50 please!)

In your dreams ;)

You sure? Just residential and Hotel - another HCT then? We need it bigger then HCT - Glass? or some other crappy material?

We need it bigger then HCT - Glass? or some other crappy material?

Plasticine, papier mache, bog roll and yoghurt pots?

can someone get the picture tommorow pretty please!!!

I confidently predict this will be just the right height to fall within the CAA height limit.

Still, great news. A few more of these please.

:uh: please no more brown..

well here you go ur little people!!!!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/woodhousen/scan0005.jpg

its got an american look about it........... though im liking all the glass and metal......... seems almost triangular?!?!??!?!

Nice tower, like it a lot.. although not really sure of its location as such.. be nice if someone could use a webbaviation aerial to show where abouts it is, n how close it is to other towers (how it mindles in and such).. 38 Res.. shouldn't be a bad height?? say 120-140m?

im thinking mainly 120-125m roof height!

From that rendering, the design looks rather nondescript... but at least it's tall.

ah... so this is what I must have read last night, I had a ridiculous dream that I spoke to Miller and they were dissapointed that this tower was going ahead, they said... "this is bad news for any prospect of building Arena Central tower now, such close competition will make our project commercially unsafe, we will have to concentrate more on the lower buildings with emphasis on larger floor plates" I'm sure that this will not be the case though :)

well here is a thing i did to show the height and location to relation of this tower to the surroundings...however, then i didnt know the tower was triangular!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/woodhousen/tramps.jpg




do we not think it may be time to contact miller again???? the masterplan should be out soon!

cheers for that rendering, looking quite impressive there, this will make an imense impact to the broadstreet skyline considering the street already looks quite dense in places with the tallest tower at present being about 70 - 80 metres tall this will really stand out.

At the bottom left of that pic you can see the top of Hyatt tower and then it would be the proposed Arena Central and then the 100 metre Alpha tower.

Nice Tower - You sure its triangular though and just not horizontal? :dunno:

I actually think it fits in quite well with the surrounding area, quite a phoneixesque type of scraper. Tall, Fat and made of Glass. I like the little wings it has on the sides aswell. not to mention the lights on top, which will act as an even greater entry into the city.

Very pleased with it. another 150 bedroom hotel - Brums booming with its hotels now isnt it. You can expect this to be another 5* due to its location. Hasnt Auchinleck house got a hotel also in its plans?

This is what Brum needs, half a dozen 120m+ towers then 2 stand out towers and hopefully the latter will start with the new Arena Central masterplan.

The only good thing about AC at the moment is, it has to be taller then 38 & 39 storeys :cheers:

Don't like it at all really dated looking, we have more innovative towers like Swiss Re to compete with and this looks really unadventurous.

Don't like it at all really dated looking, we have more innovative towers like Swiss Re to compete with and this looks really unadventurous.

Mate, take into account the surrounding areas. This alone will stand out like a sore thumb. anything more would look awful. Its a steady and elegant design. It looks just as good as HCT - just with less colour galss, but this will reflect an awful lot more.

Oh and another thing which we should'nt over look is that its a "Midlands Developer" - Who is changing from large floor plate buildings to elegant skyscrapers. If this is good, expect a few more proposals from the group.

P.S Everytime I look at it, I love it more and more.

Pretty stout looking thing, dont you think?

Couple of things to point out - firstly it seems very wide on the broad street side - looks like they have designs on lee longlands or the neighbours on the other side. And as it says in the article, the scheme wont start until the next upward cycle in the property market, so we probably wont be seeing this for a while yet.

Swiss re is an exception in design terms, not a rule of thumb guide to creating a scraper.. Don't compare it to new designs.. This will be striking and elegent in every sense.. it won't be a landmark tower but then, why should it be?!

Pretty stout looking thing, dont you think?

Couple of things to point out - firstly it seems very wide on the broad street side - looks like they have designs on lee longlands or the neighbours on the other side. And as it says in the article, the scheme wont start until the next upward cycle in the property market, so we probably wont be seeing this for a while yet.

Im my calculations, the next upward cycle will be when Orion, southside, the Post Box, Masshouse and HCT are all completed. The next cycle will be John Bright, City Park Gate, Martineu Galleries and This.

If it gains approval within the next 8 weeks expect it to start mid 2006.

I agree, St Marys Axe is sort of unique, and that kind of innovation comes at a premium. And this will be a landmark in the respect of sheer size - especially from the western approaches to the city centre, this will dwarf everything else.

Reminds me of Hong Kong HSBC a little bit. Not sure wether I like this or not, need a few more renders.

Im my calculations, the next upward cycle will be when Orion, southside, the Post Box, Masshouse and HCT are all completed. The next cycle will be John Bright, City Park Gate, Martineu Galleries and This.

If it gains approval within the next 8 weeks expect it to start mid 2006.

I dont think approval will be a problem - the tories love the west end - and this seems unadventurous in architectural terms, which probably gives them a warm fuzzy feeling inside. Not to say I dont like it, I think its rather good, although that horizontal banding seems to detract from its height somewhat. By all accounts this will be a little taller than HCT.

i agree witht he fact that it looks sort of like the hong kong HSBC and for that, i love it. the total in your face HUGENESS of the building will really make it stand out. if it is not triangular than i dont worry about how wide it looks from this side, as it will look sleem and slender from the other view.

they are not albe to demolish lee longlands but i think this prob includes the bombay mix store.....

all in al i like it. very in your face, very girthy, very rich looking building....and with leisure floor plates, a hotel and apartments, this will act as a magnet imo to the whole broad street improvement thing...... imagine walking down broad street in a few years after it been inproved with this, arena central and auck house along it......should look amazing!

I think its bigger then HCT ... "SHOCK" ... I was doing the maths. HCT has 144 apartment and 6 luxury Penthouses. Well this will have 350 flats, obviously smaller then the size in HCT but still quite a hefty amount- It is also stated as being mixed use. I just got a feeling that this will be minimally taller then Beetham.

the developers have been doing their research and are very competitive. this is competeing not only with what birmingham has already but also the future.........so that HCT and AC!!!!

imagine walking down broad street in a few years after it been inproved with this, arena central and auck house along it......should look amazing!

This seems to be a long way off, but yes - when its all done, with AC at whatever height it turns out to be, and something at least marginally ambitious at auckinleck, this whole area will be the daddy :)

It's a bit of a beefy bugger ain't it....just what we need to fill up the skyline a bit and it does bear a passing resemblance to HSBC in HK. It would be even better if it had a similar lighting scheme to HSBC but withy it being mainly residential that'd be a bit of a no no.

Couldnt agree more - This building is so in your face, you have to like it. Brum has really fought back over the last 7 months in this high-rise race with the country. Broad Street will be amazing when all this is done. another 5* hotel to attract the celebs away form Hyatt, a nice lighting scheme and this will really act as the entrance to Brums Golden Mile.

I think its bigger then HCT ... "SHOCK" ... I was doing the maths. HCT has 144 apartment and 6 luxury Penthouses. Well this will have 350 flats, obviously smaller then the size in HCT but still quite a hefty amount- It is also stated as being mixed use. I just got a feeling that this will be minimally taller then Beetham.

But remember that HCT has little dainty floorplates wheras this one has floorplates the size of Dawn French. ;) I reckon they will make it a few bob taller than HCT, intentionally of course, 'Tallest Building in Birmingham' is a better selling point than 'Almost the tallest building in Birmingham'

Poor Ian Simpson and poor Stephen Beetham, their towers are going to be topped in Manc and Brum in no time. :cheers:

all in al i like it. very in your face, very girthy

Ooo, you love a bit of girth don't you. ;)

Poor Richardsons- Miller gonna topple them aswell.

Lets just hope Beetham come with taller proposals for each city. It wouldnt suprise me considering the rate it was selling and the amount of coverage its had.

It looks as if the 120m ceiling will be broken for the 2nd time then if this is approved.

124m/128m (to spire) - Those 2 lights on either side will look the bomb.

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/3089BroadStreetTower_pic1.jpg

Don't think 'look the bomb' is exactly the best pun for selling a new project these days.. :S

You can also see that the facade slopes outwards on one of the sides, so it extends beyond the building, meaning that side of the building out of sight may have some very cool cladding/shaping

Don't think 'look the bomb' is exactly the best pun for selling a new project these days.. :S

You can also see that the facade slopes outwards on one of the sides, so it extends beyond the building, meaning that side of the building out of sight may have some very cool cladding/shaping

;) it could definately slope outwards from the back, by the looks of things.

124m/128m (to spire) - Those 2 lights on either side will look the bomb.

This is an estimate btw.

This is an estimate btw.

I guessed ;)

ok im confused by this pictures.,......am right in thinking that this it looking out from the city centre and that broad street in on the right of the building????

looks cool, it GOT TO BE taller than HCT, jut hope they get moving on this quick and we dont have to wait forever for it to be built

now that pallanning permission should be granted soon hopefully they will have a firm construction date, mid 2006 me hopes


go brum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

This looks pretty good. It looks to have a HELIPAD which is just about the coolest thing a highrise can have. The next upward cycle means the next property boom so I wouldn't hold out too much hope for a quick start.

im thinking late 2006 early 2007 for a start date. concidering that the property market is leveling out and interest rates are meant to be gping down soon, im thnking that by the end of next year, things should have stablized anought to build it..... also notice that the very reason they are building in birmingham in the first place is becaus eof the strength of the housing markest here!

On first sight, the tower frontage I think appears to be positioned on Broad street, opposite the Novotel and traffic lights junction with Sheepcote street, and then the tower itself angles deep into the depth to the rear of the plot until it meets Tennant street?

Typical! I go all the way into town to get an estates gazette, in the hope of being the first to post a render of this tower, and i'm beaten to it by more than 4 hours. :evil:That's £3.50 down the bloody drain then.

O well, it's a nice tower, so that makes me feel better.

Is that podium on top of the tower a helicopter pad?
-------------------------here---------------------
http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/3089BroadStreetTower_pic1.jpg

I thought it looked like a helipad too, it'd be cool if it was

well a top clase hotel and probably very expensive apartments........ we also do advertise ourselves as a business destination with the ICC blah blah blah and i cant think of a helipad in the city centre?!?!?!?!?!

would make sense!

...im still loving it!

Looks promising, does it breach the CAA limit ? as its on the ridge so even though it has the same amount of floors it should appear much taller than HCT and break the cap ? which means in effect there would be no cap ?

was there ever a height limit? at the moment, HCT is the only building which has been effected byy it. unfortunately, the councils high-places document appears to be having more effect ..........lets hope someone has the balls to change that!

was there ever a height limit? at the moment, HCT is the only building which has been effected byy it. unfortunately, the councils high-places document appears to be having more effect ..........lets hope someone has the balls to change that!

Well considering HCT is still over the CAA ruling, Like I have always thought, its an imaginary load of balls which was just implemented to provide assurances to people.

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/3089BroadStreetTower_pic1.jpg

Sorry to sound like a wet fart and I know you can't tell much from one low quality render but it's really not doing it for me. It looks like a giant stretched version of quayside!?

The angle of over-sailing facade on the corner seems to indicate it's triangular and I would have thought the developers, architects and council would want to maximise the Broad street frontage. It may look quite slender going up Broad Street towards Fiveways but going the other way may look like a huge block. Until I see better renders of the other end and the front elevation I'll reserve judgment. remember there was talk a while back about picadilly circus style lighting.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for something of HCT quality but this doesn't look like it to me at the moment and I really hope I’m proved wrong. When you looked a the visual of the spiral tower proposed for corner of park central it looked very contemporary and was breathtaking even in an early visual but in my opinion it looks a little cheesy and already a bit dated.

it looks like something from ten years ago. Very mid nineties. Previous Richardson developments like Tiger Tiger, 1 Colemore square were missed opportunities to do something great, so until we know who the architects are and their pedigree I’ll remain cautious.

I think im reading it correct when I say the view of is from the general direction of quayside tower
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=405942&y=286405&z=1&sv=405750,286250&st=4&ar=Y&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf

Yep the view is from the direction of quayside looking west towards five ways, broad street on the right and tennant street to the left.

I think that you will find this to be a very basic artists impression, as in the case with Arena Central, afterall, isn't this going to be on the back bench for a while? in other words they will wait and see what Miller come up with (just a wild guess)

i would have thought so EK, as i have said before, this tower is in direct responce to AC........... this isnt going to be built tomorrow lol

it is a v basic rendering at the moment but i do really like what i see...... i huge, in your face m'f*cking tower. id much prefer this than a boring really lanky tower........ here we have a glass and steel tower...amazing!

again, i think EK, ts time to see if miller are in a talking mood...u not think?

well I'm not sure if you caught my post earlier (that I promptly deleted) about one of two dreams I had last night, I think that I will hold back abit in this case. I'm sure that Miller/Ruhan will build something quite substantial but in all fairness the tower is going to be a later stage of the development and so as Miller have said, heights will depend on market forces as with all these commercial projects, no one is in the business of losing money for the sake of architecture these days, quite unfortunate really.

well I'm not sure if you caught my post earlier (that I promptly deleted) about one of two dreams I had last night, I think that I will hold back abit in this case. I'm sure that Miller/Ruhan will build something quite substantial but in all fairness the tower is going to be a later stage of the development and so as Miller have said, heights will depend on market forces as with all these commercial projects, no one is in the business of losing money for the sake of architecture these days, quite unfortunate really.

So they are not gonna build anything substanial either in height or architecture. Surely not, if thats the case hopefully they will wait until May 2006 to put forward the new plans then Labour can throw it away like trash. because by the sounds of things, thats what its gonna be.

no birmy, read my post again mate! then go and read A.C. thread if it still exists for an update, cheers :)

no birmy, read my post again mate! then go and read A.C. thread if it still exists for an update, cheers :)

Ok read it again, but its still not any clearer. A substantial tower could be anything over 90m - If its a residential tower I think market forces you talk about should be irrelevant, as the UK has been in boom for the last 3+ years. They have either missed the boat this time round and are gonna wait another God knows how many year, or there build something the size of Orion.

P.S AC thread has been lost :(

I thought HCT was built to the maximum for it's individual plot? Surely there can't be blanket 120m height limit across the city centre considering how many hills there are. It's 242m ASL ain't it? (Not for London though - gits)

I thought HCT was built to the maximum for it's individual plot? Surely there can't be blanket 120m height limit across the city centre considering how many hills there are. It's 242m ASL ain't it? (Not for London though - gits)

I think any city can build over 242m I think it just a case of when, who and how. The 120m lark is rubbish to be honest. I've always thought the CAA ruling was implemented just to show the public that they would prevent an 9/11 happening. HCT is already over that - this tower will be over that and so will a few others.

Cool, I wander when they actually intend to build, they have a good track record of delivering projects, although the architecture is debateable, but 'the next upwards cycle' is a little vague !

well they might out off building it tomorrow but they aint hanging around for getting it approved

here is the full planning application summitted last week

C/04612/05/FUL
212-223 Broad Street, Birmingham

Rdevelopment of site to provide a 38 storey building with ground floor A1/A2/A3/A4/C1 & D2 uses and upper floor parking, hotel and residential units.

Richardson Cordwell
c/o DTZ Pieda Consulting

DTZ Peieda Consulting
1 Colmore Square
Birmingham
B4 6AJ


anyone gona visit it?

I wander how this will affect the site directly opposite, which Crosby own and were considering a tower for ? do you think two tall structures will be allowed so close to each other, after all Broad Street is not the widest of roads and there may be light right problems etc

The more the better, me thinks! Broad Street/Hagley Road is the perfect axis on which to have lots of closely spaced office/mixed use towers of between 70 - 120/130 metres in height. If we can't get a decent cluster in the city centre proper, then more tall developments strung along this road would be most desirable. As for the light-blocking issue, it may not be too bad as Broad Street runs South West anyway. Furthermore, this would create a rather dramatic "canyon" effect and reinforce / enhance the idea of Brum's "Golden Mile" - an important and increasingly upmarket leisure, commerce and residential artery leading from Edgbaston into the central core.

I wander how this will affect the site directly opposite, which Crosby own and were considering a tower for ? do you think two tall structures will be allowed so close to each other, after all Broad Street is not the widest of roads and there may be light right problems etc

Just look at Skyscraper Alley in the westside Brum2003 - HCT, Senitenals, Orion, JB, Westside, Alpha and then you have your answer. If anything after Crosby have finished Orion and JB they will more then likely want to go bigger then 32 storeys. Lets not forget Auchinleck house aswell. Thats a major redevlopment. 150,000sqft of office and retail - 150 bed hotel, 300+ apartments. Thats the 1.5 times the size of the Broad Street Tower. We could see a couple 80m+ towers here.

P.S Martin G was it you who did those future renders with the look alike Bishopgate Tower? You dont fancy doing another one do you, because those are quality.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/MartianG/BrumSkyline.jpg

Correction: The architect(s) of Bishopsgate Tower ripped off MY 2003 impression of a fantasy Colmore Tower (the spiral top is identical). The bastards! ;)

your right, the ridge is the perfect place for any towers....I hope Crosby will move forward with this plot now, although they seem to be progressing the Orion and Southside phase 2's first. Do we know yet who is behind Auchenleck now ? I was sure its Frontier and they agai have a great track record at delivering here in Brum

Correction: The architect(s) of Bishopsgate Tower ripped off MY 2003 impression of a fantasy Colmore Tower (the spiral top is identical). The bastards! ;)

I agree - but can you do a future render for us lol ;) :cheers:

What would be in it though? Just HCT is kinda boring! We haven't much concrete indication of whether or not there will be other tall towers there.... ;)

What would be in it though? Just HCT is kinda boring! We haven't much concrete indication of whether or not there will be other tall towers there.... ;)

Arena Central at a reduced height of 150m(hopefully) Broad Street tower should be visable behind HCT aswell as Alpha. HCT moved to its correct position. Orion at 90m aswell as JB at 70m, 2 paradise street towers at 120m, where the current Paradise and HCT tower are in your shot, 2x 120-130m towers at ludgate right next to BT plus a 60m block, Martineau gallery towers. Quiet a few really mate.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/woodhousen/tramps.jpg

this picture just shows how much space there is on the one side of broad street for highrise development. the current land use on the north side of broad street is totally inpracticle.....

D'oh! Bang goes the nice "canyon" idea then! :D

Arena Central at a reduced height of 150m(hopefully) Broad Street tower should be visable behind HCT aswell as Alpha. HCT moved to its correct position. Orion at 90m aswell as JB at 70m, 2 paradise street towers at 120m, where the current Paradise and HCT tower are in your shot, 2x 120-130m towers at ludgate right next to BT plus a 60m block, Martineau gallery towers. Quiet a few really mate.


Give me a week and I'll work on it then (I won't have access to my comp for five/six days as I'm going to be away on recuperative duty at my family's).

i recon they should extend brindley place westward along braod street but this time go a little more high-rise!

Yeah! Why the hell not?

Brindleyplace has been a huge success, perhaps the demand for greater floor space (bearing in mind the restricted sites along this already rather narrow corridor) can ultimately dictate that future buildings will go UPWARDS rather than outwards! :D

well if u look, the height of the brindly pace building increase moving away from the canal......i mean look at the mass of the yellow tower....i think its 12 brindley place...i forget..... makes sense to continue the site further along and continue increasing the height lol

I wanfer if argent are planning a tower for the final phase of Brindleyplace

they want a boutique hotel and maybe more apartments with office space ?

this is what is going in the mailbox cube and thats 17 storeys on a much larger footprint ?

where did u hear this news...have argent made it public they want more at brindley place?

sorry Dave, i heard its only going to be around 6-8 storeys and mainly offices. It all could change though and i would have thought Argent would like to substantially venture into the residential market. A Brindleyplace tower does sound nice though :)

Good news on this tower btw, although the rendering is only a basic visual and seems to show the back of the tower?, This CAA malarky is really annoying, if this tower is on much higher ground than HCT therefore i think the height limit on that ridge area is about 100m, but this will be at least 15 -20m over that possibly more. From some views this should appear taller than BT tower. Hopefully a 100m on the Fiveways shopping centre site and it will look great.

Good news on this tower btw, although the rendering is only a basic visual and seems to show the back of the tower?, This CAA malarky is really annoying, if this tower is on much higher ground than HCT therefore i think the height limit on that ridge area is about 100m, but this will be at least 15 -20m over that possibly more. From some views this should appear taller than BT tower. Hopefully a 100m on the Fiveways shopping centre site and it will look great.

A completely forgot about the 5 Ways Tower - Any more news on that. I just really want to see what they propose at Auchinleck House, thats gonna be one of the biggest developments in Birmingham.

P.S Totally agree about this CAA ruling. This building itself is on much higher ground the HCT and looks to be taller then Beetham aswell. This could be what we need for others topress forward with taller structure and like you say this could act as a 150m tower jsut because of its position. it will look roughly the same height as BT.

Abount Brindley Place - Whatever go's up next is more then likely to be bigger then whats already there, If its not it will look immensly retarded in the whole lay out. Just lookat all the gaping room ready to be developed. I see at least 3-4 plots on the golden mile just gagging to be exploited by some big ass developers building tall.

Its also nice to see that instead of being a well organised line of high-rises, this one will venture diagonally inticing people to view it. I wouldnt be suprised to see some neon lighting scheme at the front with the name of the tower or hotel on it.

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/3089BroadStreetTower_pic1.jpg

Look how tiny the building on the immediate right of the building is. Woodhousen got it almost perfect

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/woodhousen/tramps.jpg

P.S My predicted height for this building, taking into account the surrounding buildings and heights of them - I reckon it be about 125-130m, well taller then anything else currently in the city bar BT. or hopefully twice the height of Quayside - and up to 140m (now I am wishing)

It shoudl be pretty visable in this shot though when finished.

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/194Quayside_pic1.jpg

Hopefully it'll be at a height that won't fully fit in this pic

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/Robdann/Birmingham%202/Fiveways5.jpg

^^^^^^^^

That Travelodge really is vile....replace that with a half decent sized tower as well!!

well if u look, the height of the brindly pace building increase moving away from the canal......i mean look at the mass of the yellow tower....i think its 12 brindley place...i forget..... makes sense to continue the site further along and continue increasing the height lol

The yellow one is 8 brindleyplace, the RBS building.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/woodhousen/tramps.jpg

this picture just shows how much space there is on the one side of broad street for highrise development. the current land use on the north side of broad street is totally inpracticle.....

Good luck moving those people out their houses - I'm sure any developers would rather crack on with brownfield sites that dont involve buggering about with buying out a whole bunch of existing occupants. I still think we should be building taller with greater density - clustering - at eastside, and restrict highrise development in the western part of town to places like paradise circus, arena central, this site, and maybe a few others like the HCT corner of the city centre - make landmark towers that stand out.

That Travelodge really is vile....replace that with a half decent sized tower as well!!
The Travelodge building looks like several porta-cabins stacked on top of one another - with a strip of white gaffa tape down the middle holding the two stacks together.
We could either stack more porta-cabins on top and make it into a tower, or peel away the gaffa tape and hope the whole thing falls down. :)

The Travelodge building looks like several porta-cabins stacked on top of one another - with a strip of white gaffa tape down the middle holding the two stacks together.
We could either stack more porta-cabins on top and make it into a tower, or peel away the gaffa tape and hope the whole thing falls down. :)

It was the worst reclad in history - they acually made the building uglier than it already was.

Wow, its gone in for PP!
They must be serious about getting this up then.
I'd guess Gaining permission isn't cheap, therefore if they were gonna wait for the market then they would wait to get permission.

as regard buying peoples properties, correct me if im wrong but developing that area just off broad street should be nothing when you compare it to the likes of park central. ok im not familiar yet with all the workings but im sure the whole demolishing and replacing people ahs just happened on park central...i mean have you seen those houses........ they are horribel and im sure most would love to move away!



but anyway back onto this beautiful tower

sorry Dave, i heard its only going to be around 6-8 storeys and mainly offices. It all could change though and i would have thought Argent would like to substantially venture into the residential market. A Brindleyplace tower does sound nice though :)


thats a shame dee, but would fit in woth the rest of the development :rofl:

It's Broad St on the left running into the distance, on the site of Bombay Mix Travelodge just beyond, proposed helipad. Trust me ;)

Plus - I would say it is a standard rectangular footprint, twisted at an angle to Broad St so as not to impose too much on the street and allow a bit of a square in front of it.

Start on-site - a couple of years yet...

It's Broad St on the left running into the distance, on the site of Bombay Mix Travelodge just beyond, proposed helipad. Trust me ;)

Plus - I would say it is a standard rectangular footprint, twisted at an angle to Broad St so as not to impose too much on the street and allow a bit of a square in front of it.

Start on-site - a couple of years yet...


Umm start on site - 6 months earliest/12 months latest - 8 weeks until we find out if its been approved (Which it will) then a few months to prepare everything. The site has already been cleared? has it not :dunno: and I wouldnt be surpised to see this rising by january 2006.

Although I like the size of the building the first rendering we have doesn't inspire me very much (I wasn't too keen on HCT 's first renderings either).Mind you,the ridge is the best place for such a structure and would stand out very well.Lets hope it gets the nod quickly.

Although I like the size of the building the first rendering we have doesn't inspire me very much (I wasn't too keen on HCT 's first renderings either).Mind you,the ridge is the best place for such a structure and would stand out very well.Lets hope it gets the nod quickly.

The render is the back of the building - Like I said expetc some sort of neon light feature like on the Hyatt hotel at the front. The council are keen to lighten Broad Street up and make it more family friendly.

Height? - great
Render? - ok
Jan 2006 start? - no chance!

Height? - great
Render? - ok
Jan 2006 start? - no chance!

In for approval already - site cleared, why not?

'Cos property prices are dropping and they're gonna want to make as much money as possible. It's no skin off the devlopers' teeth if they wait a while - they're probably not as impatient as us lot.

Bio seems to know what he's on about. And two years ain't so long... look at Arena Central... we should be used to waiting guys :crazy:

Well the tower would take 2-3 years to build anyway, so that's plenty of time to shift 350 flats for a decent price and lease the hotel part.

Never that simple though is it.

I think it will get the nod fairly quickly, and I hope that it is tilted at an angle rather than a triangular footprint - Brumculture seems to be right that we are looking at the back of the building (I was wrong in my supposition earlier) and if the tower were to have a face running along Broad St rather than at an angle it would be too imposing and unfriendly at street level (in my opinion).

In the article the Richardsons say they will build it in the "next upward cycle" and "not building it today" so it wouldn't surprise me if we are talking about a 2007/8 start. Planning permissions run for quite some time so they can submit now and generate plenty of publicity, then work from that. If there's lots of interest then I guess they will go sooner rather than later - especially if they get a hotel company on board.

Now that the Richardsons have shown their (rather tasteful) hand, it will be interesting to see what Bridgewater Capital (Richardsons' son-in-law) come up with Miller at Arena Central. I have a feeling we will hear something soon - just a feeling though!

Oh, and once again the council are taking a pasting over the library in the Birmingham Post - Comment and Letters pages!

I read recently the next 'upward cycle' in the property market is expected in 2010

so we may have a wait for this, but as stated if a hotel operator come on board...and several still want a prescence in Brum, and a housebuilder takes on the residential, Richardsons may start earlier ?

Time will tell

As for A/c, the registry office is nearly complete, so they will have complete vacant possesion of the site, and I believe Mil;ler oroginaly intended to build a speculative block opposite the hyatt ? maybe we should finally see movement soon, as for the tower, Who Knows !!

I can see a 150 bed hotel being economically viable and very sucessful, but 350 flats on Broad Street? I hope they're cheap.

Not being funny but who would want to live there? look at what else is/will be available in the city. If you had +150K in your pocket would you?

I can see a 150 bed hotel being economically viable and very sucessful, but 350 flats on Broad Street? I hope they're cheap.

Not being funny but who would want to live there? look at what else is/will be available in the city. If you had +150K in your pocket would you?

Good point - they may have trouble shifting them if things don't change.

HOWEVER - we are looking at maybe a 2010 completion, and the signals that the council give out (Labour, Tory & Lid Dems) acknowledge that the idea of concentrating pubs (supposedly to make them more manageable) has failed, and it would not surprise if over the next few years licenses will not be renewed in order to thin out the number of pubs etc. I think the council will encourage smaller bars etc and spread them out across the city so the centre will feel "alive" through the evening and not have any "dead zones" at 10pm.

With Edgbaston Shopping Centre being replaced (the new development is bound to have bars/restaurants) and Arena Central, Mailbox Cube and Paradise Circus offering the opportunity to have leisure facilities to connect people from Broad St into the city core on an evening, pressure could be taken off Broad St and it should fall quieter, thus making it a more attractive place to live! I hear that the bank opposite Tramps (used to be Leftbank restaurant) is owned by a resi company and they are looking into developing the site (I hope they keep the bank building) - the synagogue behind has been decommissioned and should be moving to Bishopgate St.

Apartments on Broad St will mean that the big apartment sector behind Brindley Place will be connected to the residential sector by the Mailbox (+ Park Central) - now they have to connect the Brindley Place sector to the Jewellery Quarter...

this fits into the councils plan to tone down broad street realy well........ one of their best ways of enforcing the closure and spreading out of puba dna clubs through the city is to make people live on broad street. that way the council can enforce sound limitiation which clubs wil not like......... an the bets way to do that is encourages a continental style (people living, working and relaxing in the same place) along broad street! it is for this reason i see the bank plot also being changed and developed soon

BIO, im impressed with your background knowedge, esp on the miller and richardson link (whihc i thought was very hush hush) i to do not believe that this will start in the next 3 years but will also provoke a responce from miller. remember from our last contact with miller, they said that not only were they looking at a loandmark centrepiece tower but also the possibility of including some smaller towers.......

do we not think its funny though that for a long time, miller has made it public knowledge that they plans to release their new masterplan in the summer...and then in july, a brand new sizable tower is released.....?!?!?!?!?!

My god what are you guys on about - broad st. would be a fantastic place to live - after all its only rammed 2 nights a week (and fridays arent really that busy).
Imagine living in the entertainment heart of the city! you guys sound like your in 30s-40s.

BIO, im impressed with your background knowedge, esp on the miller and richardson link (whihc i thought was very hush hush) i to do not believe that this will start in the next 3 years but will also provoke a responce from miller. remember from our last contact with miller, they said that not only were they looking at a loandmark centrepiece tower but also the possibility of including some smaller towers.......

do we not think its funny though that for a long time, miller has made it public knowledge that they plans to release their new masterplan in the summer...and then in july, a brand new sizable tower is released.....?!?!?!?!?!

I see nothing suspcious like yourself - The only thing I can guess at is Richardsons know about AC and has made there tower slightly taller.

Saying that at this rate I would quite happily settle for 2x 80m and 1, 120m tower at AC or something around that.

I can see a 150 bed hotel being economically viable and very sucessful, but 350 flats on Broad Street? I hope they're cheap.

Not being funny but who would want to live there? look at what else is/will be available in the city. If you had +150K in your pocket would you?
...no. :old:

The site contains a number of tenanted properties, the head lease is not due to expire for a few years yet. The Richardsons who own the freehold will need to buy out the tenants or wait until the leases expire. I think they still have about 5 years to run.

threre's no need to tone broad street down its fantastic as it is

well they better hope not as planing permission expires after 5 years after being granted!

here is a little mock up i did showing how the horthern side of broad street could be developed and extend bridnley place......

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/woodhousen/broaddev2.jpg

and an areal block view

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/woodhousen/trampsdev.jpg

however this one would be alot more spread out creating a brund new large park and square.........

any brave developers watching lol??????????//

Thats Quality!

cool

It's quality and it's cool!

Very good Woodhousen, I especially like the shape of the tower and how you've positioned it so its head onto the the oncoming traffic. Very Las Vegas like.

Now ...can you do a future Skyline render :rofl: I really want to see one, but Im awful at them - if someone could tell me how to do one on paint Id give it a shot :cheers1:

if i had a few hundred million spare, lol, if i had a few pounds :( a great vision though, if only you ran the council Woodhousen

as for living on broad Street, I live just off it and it's not bad at all, the street itself can be rowdy on a weekend, but its alot better since the clampdown

believe me, banning cars would be a great idea as loads of boy racers who cant get into the bars 'cruise' up and down , firing water pistols at people and generally being a nuicance !!!

if the apartment entrance was on the street running parallel at the back (tennant street) and the Hotel entrance on Broad Street, it should not put buyers off !! after all there are lots of apartments being built on Granville Street as we speak....and also Sheepcote Street is almost fully developed now

I've just realised how tall this is, it's looking about twice the height of Cumberland House.
I guess Tikka Tikka (think that's what's called) and the newsagents will go but I can't work out if we'll lose Lee Longlands too. It'd be a shame, it's a nice deco building

as far as i am aware, lee longlands is listed!

Nice work Woody - I reckon you should put your handiwork to an aerial shot of the city centre with all the fairly firm developments on them - that would beat a skyline pic!

I would like to see something like you've done there placed at the back of the current library - where the UCE halls are - maybe knock the flats down at the back of Centenary Square? It would really revitalise that part of town and unlock the potential of the Jewellery Quarter. Or maybe around the BT tower with a wide pedestrian link into the financial quarter.

Incidentally, IMO some serious street remodelling needs to be done to make the backstreets of Colmore Row more friendly and connect JQ to the city core. When you walk down Gt Charles St it feels like you have the buildings with their backs facing you.

But that's straying off subject....

I thought it was a bit of a shame the new registry office was hiding the towers along broad street but at around twice the height of Jurys Inn, Trident and Cumberland house you'll certainly see this monster :)

http://tinypic.com/9uq6as.jpg

http://tinypic.com/9uq8ld.jpg

Good stuff Foxtrot, it certainly looks imposing in those pics

Good work - It will most definately be a monster

bring it on!

Great pics, particularly that first one. Having an open space beside a tall building really allows you to appreciate its size.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/woodhousen/scan0005.jpg
I don't know how much of this is just prejudice (can anyone think of anything by the Richardsons that looks like the slightest effort was made with its design?), but this looks horribly like a Basingstoke-quality building to me. A bit taller than you'd get in Basingstoke maybe, but no better - just dull and cheap, a fifth rate rip-off of the stuff Norman Foster was producing twenty years ago.

Birmingham needs to be wary of imitating Manchester's quantity of new towers if it can't achive the same level of quality and imagination too. Manchester's current projects strike a fine balance between proposals by established architects with global reputations for excellence (eg Foster, Denton Corker Marshall) and giving breaks to its more adventurous and ambitious young local firms (eg Simpson). There's no reason I can see why Birmingham couldn't do the same - there are several very exciting looking firms emerging in the city, for example - but at the moment its ambitions for its towers seem to lie more with bargain-basement architects in Redditch, Brierley Hill and a small industrial estate on the outskirts of Ellesmere Port.

Personally I think no towers is better than crap towers. Outside this forum you'll meet very few people who will argue that mediocre buildings are better tall than short.

Thats the back of the tower and until we recieve better renders thats all we have. I still think it will be a great addition to this part of town. anything unique would look ridiculously out of place here. Paris might have trees lining thier city entrance and London might have historical villages, but we have boxes (just how I like it) :cheers:

It just depends. Firstly this is a very early stage render so the design will undoubtedly change, and quite considerably. I don't mind this - it isn't ground-breaking and something fancier would be nice but provided the materials are of high quality I think it will look damn good as it is. The view from the NIA over Brindley Place will be terrific :)

And isn't Simpson Liverpudlian? ;)

Things don't have to be a wacky shape to be well designed though. If anything that design looks a bit on the fussy side - better to have a few fewer details but have them a bit more considered IMO.

That's a fair point about reading too much into a single early render, but I just wish I had a bit more faith in the Richardsons' commitment to developing the sort of design that the site deserves and demands, or in the city council's will to force them to. Would anything of this size automatically involve CABE?

And isn't Simpson Liverpudlian? ;)

Beetham's a scouser but I thought Simpson was a Manc? The practice is certainly based in Manchester, down the back of Deansgate station.

That's the *back* of the tower? I'd be slightly worried if such a prominent proposal has a side that can be distinguished as having less attention paid to it. HCT just about gets away with it.

Like people have said - I wouldnt worry about it, its early days. It will change significantly no doubt and if it doesnt well it really doesnt bother me. I like it and it fits in well with the surroundings. Its a big fat bastard and will have a very large and prominent position on the skyline.

If that rendering we've got is just a rough artists impression I can't wait to see the final version of the big meaty fucker

I don't know how much of this is just prejudice (can anyone think of anything by the Richardsons that looks like the slightest effort was made with its design?)
I agree bileduct. The only thing I can think of is zinc/livingroom/solomon cutler which I believe was by Asociated architects http://www.richardsons.co.uk/aerial.html

HASN'T ANYONE SEEN THE FRONT PAGE OF THE BIRMINGHAM POST TODAY!!!!!!!!!

HASN'T ANYONE SEEN THE FRONT PAGE OF THE BIRMINGHAM POST TODAY!!!!!!!!!

Nope, please enlighten us :)

New rendering of the 39 storey Richardson Tower on Broad St. Looks more like the rejected Gateway Tower in Brighton. Not keen on the street frontage - I think they should recess it to create a small open space but still, much more contemporary than the rendering we've all seen...

:) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Correction - it looks like the front rendering - we have only seen the back so far.

Looks like 2 different buildings though!

Have you got a decent scanner perchance?

I can only get it to pdf and it is 8mB :(

I'll get a copy of the Post on my way to work and have a butchers at it then, good to see stuff like this making the front page.

Sorted!

Sorry it's black & white - the newspaper has a colour version.

And sorry it's leaning! Seems to happen to lots of Brummy buildings now ;)

Enjoy :)

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a264/Biosonic/9a294ec0.jpg

you mean this front page lol

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/docs/icBirmingham/0001E494-76C3-12F8-B4F20C01AC1BF814.jpg

.....btw, i heard they are hopeing to have started this within the next four years, however, if the market demands it, it may well start sooner!

Good stuff Biosonic, I'll still buy a Post to see what it has to say about it. The base of it does look bizarre but the main tower looks not too disimilar to HCT's fatter cousin.

Trust Woody to nip in with the actual front page while I'm replying to Bio

you mean this front page lol

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/docs/icBirmingham/0001E494-76C3-12F8-B4F20C01AC1BF814.jpg

Not a very good render is it? I like the leaning bit though.

However, where it meets the street it looks utterly terrible, I hope this is only a basic render.

And why is he going to be famous?

I tried my best Woody :cry:

well im liking the general idea of what im seeing. it would seemto be a curved front like HCT and i have to admit i do love the idea of the facade over-run........

no doubt when this goes for detailled PP that we'll av a better idea of the details....but im liking it!

I tried my best Woody :cry:

lol, im sorry bio, dont worry, this knowledge of where to get this sort of stuff has come from being on the forum for years lol.



btw, i think he's going to be famous becasue he can fit 64 grapes under his foreskin

Caw - I can't really figure why he's going to be famous because it doesn't repeat his photo, but there is an article on p13 on a band called the Gullemots who are going to hit it big apparently.

He looks like Harry Potter :)

And I don't think it is supposed to lean - but I do like the facade overrun!

Woody - you're gross. I hate grapes (unless they're pressed and fermented) :)

btw, i think he's going to be famous becasue he can fit 64 grapes under his foreskin

But I can fit 65 under there and I'm not famous! :rant:

And yeah, this looks like a totally different design.

well heres the article

Height of luxury on Broad St Aug 9 2005


By Steve Pain, Deputy Business Editor


Plans have been unveiled for a new landmark on Birmingham's "Golden Mile" - a striking £150 million skyscraper with helipad.

Richardson Cordwell, which has already completed four of the most successful leisure developments on Broad Street, has submitted a planning application to redevelop the 1.5-acre site.

The location was the site of Tramps nightclub which closed down about 13 years ago with debts of almost £1 million.

The club opened in the mid-1980s as Burberries and was once one of the city's best live music venues, showcasing bands such as Blur and The Charlatans. When it deteriorated after its closure in 1992, planners served a legal notice on the then owners Scottish & Newcastle brewers requiring it to tidy up the building or face court action.

It was bought by Richardson Cordwell nearly two years ago, bulldozed and turned into a temporary car park.

The new 39-storey skyscraper, designed by West Midlands-based Level Seven Architects, will include 20,000 sq ft of shops and leisure units, a 150-bedroom hotel and parking in a four-storey podium area at its base.

The 350 apartments will comprise a mix of one and two-bedrooms in the main skyscraper.

The podium base will have its own rooftop garden and is designed to provide a private amenity area separated from the public realm of Broad Street.

Richardson Cordwell said the building would be one of the tallest in the city.

The company, boasting a long record of innovation and quality with schemes across the UK and Europe, was behind the Five Ways family entertainment centre and the nearby Regency Wharf complex, both on Broad Street.

It also developed the award-winning Fort shopping park in Birmingham's Heartlands district.

Director Lee Richardson said yesterday: "Following four highly successful leisure developments in Broad Street we have once again chosen the location for our biggest mixed-use scheme to date as part of our ongoing commitment to development in this area.

"It is close to our Midlands base and the building will bring quality and presence to the area and the city's skyline, reflecting Birmingham's continuing prowess as a major international and European City."

Geoff Thomas, regional chairman of the Midlands and South-west at property firm DTZ, which is representing Richardson Cordwell, added: "The building will add further vitality to the Broad Street and provide a high quality environment that is safe and secure."

After securing planning permission, which usually takes up to 12 months, the development will take two to three years to complete.

Mr Thomas added: "This £150 million scheme will bring enormous benefits to the local economy."

Very nice design, much better than everything planned in Manchester and Liverpool

If you look carefully at the first render we saw, you can see the facade overrun so I suspect that both renders are correct - one as the back and one as the front. I hope they change their mind though and continue the front facade round to the back!

And that street-level bit has to be sorted. I would say if they can't have a small open space with soft landscaping then they should stick in a glass foyer starting at ground level and rising at an angle to meet the building (a bit like a shard of glass connecting the street with the 2nd storey).

the only thing u have to remember with tower with shops at the bottom is that as a result, the base can not always be as aesthetic as we may like. the shops have to be of a decent size in order to make them viable. also, if the bac was nothing other that flat fronted, i fear that it would make the street scape of broad street feel a little wierd.

however, have u noticed the little monument infront of the tower!!!!!!!!




........AND WE'RE GETTING A HELIPAD ON THE ROOF!

Very nice design, much better than everything planned in Manchester and Liverpool

I disagree furiously.

lol, i should have bet money on that lol

how come it will take 4 years to start
what a joke


what will the helipad be for? The police to land there on a friday night to break up fights?

well the developers have always made it clear that they will build it when the market has a high enough demand....... and they are planning for this to be in the next 4 years at the latest....hopefully soon!

but hey, as was said, for a building on this scale, could take 12 months for PP to be granted.....and who knows, the market might want it built by then!

however, have u noticed the little monument infront of the tower!!!!!!!!!

That's a Ford Focus Woody :rofl:

how come it will take 4 years to start

They will have to wait for leases to expire and wait until the market says it is profitable to build! Simple economics and not a joke - it can either be £100 million out of their own pockets (or bank) or £100 million with cash flowing in as they build.

I agree with Woody though - if they get a housing developer and/or hotel on board then I would imagine they will make a start sooner rather than later.

what will the helipad be for? The police to land there on a friday night to break up fights

Big developers like to have their toys don't they :) plus it would give the hotel a big advantage if they have a helipad - they would attract business from world leaders and pop stars etc that could fly in to conferences, concerts, movie premieres etc. Would surprise me if it gets dropped though...

This will be linked in with the tram extension as well I would imagine - placing so many additional dwellings in one small space, plus a hotel would place a strain on the transport system, which could be mitigated by a tram stop outside.

The leg bone's connected to the knee bone and all that...

I reckon this will get built before AC.

I reckon so too Dazza, but it would surprise me if there's a race you know!

And if anywhere has the more desirable location it would be AC, and if they include a hotel it wouldn't surprise me if we see central Birmingham's first Hilton... the Hilton Arena Central anyone?

But if they go for the normal Hilton style then it could well be the Hilton Broad Street.

Or maybe the Crowne Plaza will move and make way for something at Arena Central?

Mere speculation though :)

very interesting, although agree with biosonic, the street level and podium looks poor, hopefully the city architect and design advisor will show ther worth here and push Level Seven to come up with a better solution at street level.

I have a feeling Level Seven is part of the Richardson Family, as they do ALL their design work, good or bad.

love the curve facade and overhang though.

wander why they have gone for 39 storeys, after all this must breach the 242 limit as its on higher ground than HCT ?

They know the 242 limit does not apply...

:)

well i dont think its a fact of height itself....more what it hase.....20,000sqft of shops, 150 hotel rooms, 350 apartments is a very round number.

anyway, 39 x 3(ish) is around 118m,..........and the sea level height here is 125m....... so yes, this wil break the "OLD" CAA ruling by 19m.......

wil be our job though as sad skyscraper people to make everyone aware that the CAA have no powers anymore!

dunno if its been mentioned but its interesting to read that this will have an heli-pad. what's the point of having such a thing on the roof though?

lol, as bio just explained, the hotel and apartments will be able to attract very importand companies and people to their building. remember the G8? people can fly in , go to a conferense and fly out again withut coming in cantack with a single member of the public......... also riich people have expensive toys......

a much needed assest to the city too!

to land helicopters on it mate

dunno if its been mentioned but its interesting to read that this will have an heli-pad. what's the point of having such a thing on the roof though?

Did you know that in LA there is a fire ordinance which states that all tall buildings *must* have a flat roof to allow a heli pad, so that helicopters can land in case of fire or other emergencies (ie. Earthquakes!), so they're a safety bonus too.
http://www.edenslostandfound.org/program/la/images/Los-Angeles.jpg

Isn't that the Aston Expressway on the left?

:rofl:

wow, never realised how small the cbd of LA seems to be!

the situation with this tower is that even though it wont get built this year or next, the chances are thet it will get built sometime, and is a firm proposal, so hopefully this will attract other comapnies too now , it really is a project to look foward

as for the design i expect there will be several changes
BTW was does planning permission take 12 months what is it that they have to do that is gonna take a whole year, surley they could get it through quicker???????

well the planning system works on a scale that the bigger the project, the more people will have to be consulted. in the case of this scheme, pople may well call it into the ODPM but lets hope not. the new planning system hopes to get schemes like this through in about 16 weeks but with consultation, and government bodies having their say (CABE blah blah blah) then it will be atleast 6 months before things start to show!

thanks for clearing that up

Very nice - tower loooks very sleek and big, the lower voyer needs to be sorted and will ... maybe a Planet Holywood will open up, who knows :dunno:

Much better the the other render we saw. and yes much bigger then CAA's rulling, which I think anyone with any sense knows was aload of bull :)

Goodwork people :cheers:

I also love the facade overun, gives it that extre ummph ... It looks about twice the size of the surrounding buildings so maybe 120-130 as people have already said.

It also has a little spire :yes: ;)

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a264/Biosonic/9a294ec0.jpg

Pinch of salt time, folks.

We've been there many many times before. :D

richardsons have a track record of delivering every scheme they have been involved in, they are shrewd developers and always take a risk in the midlands !! pity they dont like to use great architects

So maybe not, I agree other schemes like Arena Central have been protracted, but i think they will build this. As long as they get a hotel operator and a housebuilder on board ? should not be too difficult

The base is a bit odd, and it could do with being a little narrower, but these gripes aside this is growing on me. Let us hope Richardsons maintain their track record and build this thing.

I think its just the renders - but in both so far its looked no where near as tall as the HCT render does/did

Yet an identical 39 storeys tall. It's probably just fatter.

Maybe I should put a tenner on AC being 39 storeys. We'd have a brace of 400 footers.

Better than zero 800 footers though.

lol true! every one seems scared to reach 40

How come our towers look so tiny compared to these - They are 35 storey residential towers and look twice the height of BST, plus none of them have a Helipad ;) :cheers1:

http://img214.exs.cx/img214/6334/shethbeaumondebldg8ta.jpg

Oh and also - I'm not sure who else has picked up on it, but the bottom floors are apparently a 4 storey podium - (Not included within the 39 storey residential tower) - im not sure how to look at it, but rough estimates done by my eyes suggest its 6 times the height of the bottom foyer - = the Helipad and additional space needed between the top floor and the top of the building.

http://www.virtualbrum.co.uk/hotels/images/travelogebroadst.jpg

How come our towers look so tiny compared to these - They are 35 storey residential towers and look twice the height of BST, plus none of them have a Helipad ;) :cheers1:



I think this might be an optical illusion caused by the stripey effect of the floors and the fact that the buildings are very wide and not very deep. Plus the people look tiny and sales renders always try to make buildings more imposing. If you stood a Sentinal next to them it wouldn't be that much smaller... :cheers:

The 4-storey podium will have that private space on top "away from the public realm"

I think this might be an optical illusion caused by the stripey effect of the floors and the fact that the buildings are very wide and not very deep. Plus the people look tiny and sales renders always try to make buildings more imposing. If you stood a Sentinal next to them it wouldn't be that much smaller... :cheers:

The 4-storey podium will have that private space on top "away from the public realm"

Nah you can see that each stripe has the same number of glass panels ;)

He says it will be one of the tallest in Birmingham - It looks taller then HCT so does he know something about Arena Central that we dont :hahaha:

Yeh the 4 storey podium will apparently have a roof-top garden aswell, sounds very posh.

Nah you can see that each stripe has the same number of glass panels ;)
QUOTE]

I'm confused :?

I just meant that the buildings in that render have horizontal lines that make it easier to count the floors, whereas HCT doesn't so you cannot get quite the same sense of scale.

[QUOTE]He says it will be one of the tallest in Birmingham - It looks taller then HCT so does he know something about Arena Central that we dont

ONE of the tallest eh? Well, there's only the BT tower taller isn't there (at the moment ;)

Oh right - ok, yeh the renders again arent the greatest, but it looks I say roughly about 130m maybe a lil less, maybe a lil more ;)

Yeh- but do you think they count the BT tower? :dunno: because knowone lives in it do they? Just think when HCT is finished, AC could be rising, then when AC is nearing completion BST will be rising to go with all the other towers around the city. Be quite a transformation, people judged Birmingham to soon, and put it down to easily. Its Brum remember, were better then the rest of you ;)
:cheers1:

Bio - anymore rumours on these other towers, are they still gonna be in the lower spectrum of your height scale? :cheers:

Hey, anyway who knows, the press have used the word Skyscraper quite alot and according to many a Skyscraper is a building over 152m and 500ft ;) - I know, I know im being so optimistic, I even think AC will start this year :rofl:

If you read all the articles from the Birmingham Post and Evening Mail none of them talk about HCT as a skyscraper but as a tower - Why is there reporting different towards this one? :dunno:

Anybody remember this article - how times change (This was the time, when Birmingham really could've become the new Frankfurt) :(

Battle for Brum skyline Apr 12 2001
By Paul Dale, Birmingham Post


A battle to seize the skyline has broken out in Birmingham, with rival developers competing to build high-rise structures at a key city centre site.

Planners are expected to approve proposals for a 44-storey, 600ft-high skyscraper at Holloway Circus next week.

The scheme, by developers Beetham, would create offices, shops and flats and involve demolishing several existing buildings, including the AEU union headquarters.

But planning committee members will also have to consider a joint application by Cala Homes and the NCP car park chain for a far larger development, for two skyscrapers, shops, flats and a hotel, at the same site.

High-rise buildings, seen by politicians as an ideal way to develop prestige residential accommodation in the city centre, have become a sensitive subject recently.

Council leaders believe a skyscraper skyline will improve Birmingham's image as a major European city.

But the planning committee last week expressed concern about designs for a 383-home apartment block, likened to a Stalinist prison complex, intended as part of the £400 million Arena Central scheme in Broad Street. The centrepiece of Arena Central will be a 900ft skyscraper, Birmingham's tallest building.

An application for a 20-storey block in Holliday Street was also rejected as badly designed and unsuitable.

The Beetham proposal for Holloway Circus is being strongly backed by council planning officers, who have praised its "elegant" design. They also support the application because it proposes a mixture of private and public housing - the first example of its type in Birmingham.

Occupants of nearby offices want the scheme thrown out, fearing tall structures will block their light while more residential accommodation would create additional traffic on already congested roads.

Planning committee chairman Coun Renee Spector (Lab Erdington) said skyscrapers appeared to be "flavour of the month" but warned great care must be taken in design.

Planning officer Alison Walker said: "Holloway Circus Tower would be a memorable landmark building ... The tall and elegant nature of the proposed tower would provide a striking addition to the city centre townscape."

Anybody remember this article - how times change (This was the time, when Birmingham really could've become the new Frankfurt) :(

Battle for Brum skyline Apr 12 2001
By Paul Dale, Birmingham Post


A battle to seize the skyline has broken out in Birmingham, with rival developers competing to build high-rise structures at a key city centre site.

Planners are expected to approve proposals for a 44-storey, 600ft-high skyscraper at Holloway Circus next week.

The scheme, by developers Beetham, would create offices, shops and flats and involve demolishing several existing buildings, including the AEU union headquarters.

But planning committee members will also have to consider a joint application by Cala Homes and the NCP car park chain for a far larger development, for two skyscrapers, shops, flats and a hotel, at the same site.

High-rise buildings, seen by politicians as an ideal way to develop prestige residential accommodation in the city centre, have become a sensitive subject recently.

Council leaders believe a skyscraper skyline will improve Birmingham's image as a major European city.

But the planning committee last week expressed concern about designs for a 383-home apartment block, likened to a Stalinist prison complex, intended as part of the £400 million Arena Central scheme in Broad Street. The centrepiece of Arena Central will be a 900ft skyscraper, Birmingham's tallest building.

An application for a 20-storey block in Holliday Street was also rejected as badly designed and unsuitable.

The Beetham proposal for Holloway Circus is being strongly backed by council planning officers, who have praised its "elegant" design. They also support the application because it proposes a mixture of private and public housing - the first example of its type in Birmingham.

Occupants of nearby offices want the scheme thrown out, fearing tall structures will block their light while more residential accommodation would create additional traffic on already congested roads.

Planning committee chairman Coun Renee Spector (Lab Erdington) said skyscrapers appeared to be "flavour of the month" but warned great care must be taken in design.

Planning officer Alison Walker said: "Holloway Circus Tower would be a memorable landmark building ... The tall and elegant nature of the proposed tower would provide a striking addition to the city centre townscape."
,,,since when was there a mixture of private and public housing in Beetham Tower?

,,,since when was there a mixture of private and public housing in Beetham Tower?

He He - dont forget this was when Beetham tower was 600ft - so they might of had to scrap that when they reduced it in height.

There are some 'affordable units' usually brought in a block by a housing association and then sold at a reduced level for key workers...or part buy part rent or any other schemes they have !

Every housing scheme has to include a 'social' element, I think people tend to mistake this with 'Council Homes' or half way houses for ex offenders etc

The homes in Beetham Tower or any of the other city centre schemes are very choosey regards there social tennants, ie, my mate lives in Digbeth in a housing association block, he rents and the stipulation to rent is you earn over £25,000 p/a

I remember that article, Cala are useless developers, they have not actually built anything in the city centre to my knowledge, although they have financed several schemes, they seem to just buy derelict land and watch its value shoot up, with no intention of building, I wish they would sell the plot next to HCT to a developer who likes to build !!! and then this side of the city could really look different in 5 years with all the other things planned

I'd like to know which 'social landlord' has units within Beetham..I don't think so.

Oh right - ok, yeh the renders again arent the greatest, but it looks I say roughly about 130m maybe a lil less, maybe a lil more ;)

Yeh- but do you think they count the BT tower? :dunno: because knowone lives in it do they? Just think when HCT is finished, AC could be rising, then when AC is nearing completion BST will be rising to go with all the other towers around the city. Be quite a transformation, people judged Birmingham to soon, and put it down to easily. Its Brum remember, were better then the rest of you ;)
:cheers1:

Bio - anymore rumours on these other towers, are they still gonna be in the lower spectrum of your height scale? :cheers:

The developer said "one of Birmingham's tallest BUILDINGS" didn't he? Now, Earlybird can argue till he's blue in the face but the BT tower is a building, even if it is not occupied. Interestingly I read somewhere (God knows where) that a structure can be classified according to whether it can be ascended from within. i.e. a telecommunication mast is not a building whereas a lighthouse is. Not sure whether this holds any water though (that would be a water tower - is that a building? :rofl: )

I think you are being a little optimistic on the timescales brumculture, lol, even if Arena Central starts at the end of the year, you could be looking at up to 12 months of demolition before foundations start to go down! Personally I would like to see the canal basin extended into the development - that would be a nice touch.

If AC sold well you can bet your life BST would happen soon after!

As for the other towers, nothing new I am afraid! And they are not rumours... it is information ;) We could have quite a cluster though...... :?

I'd like to know which 'social landlord' has units within Beetham..I don't think so.

:laugh: I doubt it too!

What might have happened is that the developer subsidised accommodation elsewhere and not necessarily in the development itself. Or he might pay for street improvements, a health centre, kiddies playground etc etc

I think you are being a little optimistic on the timescales brumculture, lol, even if Arena Central starts at the end of the year, you could be looking at up to 12 months of demolition before foundations start to go down! Personally I would like to see the canal basin extended into the development - that would be a nice touch.:?

Richardsons seem pretty hopeful to have the tower completed within the next 3-4 years ;) and Arena Central, I agree, but a start on site is better then nothing, and I also would love to see the canal basin extended into the development, it would be quite a feature.

If AC sold well you can bet your life BST would happen soon after!

BST will start whenever it gains approval, pretty postitive about this. TV have done some work with them in the past, they dont mess around and being in such a prime location it will sell like hotcakes.

As for the other towers, nothing new I am afraid! And they are not rumours... it is information ;) We could have quite a cluster though...... :?

He He - Quite a cluster? that could be anything really in Birmingham at the moment. Eastside, Westside, Broad Street, and theres so much land available, but its interesting none the less and like you say INFORMATION not rumours, so Im trusting you to give us some good news sooner rather then later ;) :cheers:

Hey, anyway who knows, the press have used the word Skyscraper quite alot and according to many a Skyscraper is a building over 152m and 500ft ;) - I know, I know im being so optimistic, I even think AC will start this year :rofl:

If you read all the articles from the Birmingham Post and Evening Mail none of them talk about HCT as a skyscraper but as a tower - Why is there reporting different towards this one? :dunno:

The '500ft' definition of a skyscraper is accepted by some but not all, the press randomly interchange phrases like these. One day it's a skyscraper, next a tower, next a tower block. Once the local press and NIMBYS were attacking a new beachside development somewhere on the south coast, the 60ft building was labelled a skyscraper.......... :crazy:

If the press knew the height, they would have included it in their article for sure.

Richardsons seem pretty hopeful to have the tower completed within the next 3-4 years ;) and Arena Central, I agree, but a start on site is better then nothing, and I also would love to see the canal basin extended into the development, it would be quite a feature.


I have taken the bit of the article out:

"After securing planning permission, which usually takes up to 12 months, the development will take two to three years to complete."

You've fallen foul of vague journalism here I am afraid Brumculture :sly:

I've forgotten what this is called, but it is the art of making 2 statements one after another and hoping the reader will make a connection. Planning will probably take a year (especially if it goes to ODPM) and the development will probably take a few months to demolish and 2 years to build. And one will happen after the other, but not necessarily straightaway. It all depends on the funding really, and also when leases expire. The Richardsons could buy existing businesses out but they may not until they definitely know it is going to be worth it. I have heard (and it is a solid source) that it will be 4 years before they start, but this is open to change of course. Let's hope that we see some action as soon as planning is granted (if planning is granted...

:cheers1:

I don't mean to pee on your parade though :)

Btw was the application that went in for this detailed or outline?

I'm sure I've read posts saying both.

heres the planning application

C/04612/05/FUL
212-223 Broad Street, Birmingham

Rdevelopment of site to provide a 38 storey building with ground floor A1/A2/A3/A4/C1 & D2 uses and upper floor parking, hotel and residential units.

Richardson Cordwell
c/o DTZ Pieda Consulting

DTZ Peieda Consulting
1 Colmore Square
Birmingham
B4 6AJ

this is Full planning permission, you can tell be the code!

Its already in for full planning permission and the sites already cleared - Bio why will they wait 3 years after being given planning permission to start it?

That doesnt make sense. You can talk about the market etc, but its prime location, if they wait and wait, other buildings will start going up, such as City Park Gate, Martineau, Orion 2, Eastside etc. They will have less chance then of selling the apartments, let alone making money with a major Hotel outlet.

Richardsons dont wait around, and with something this size and important you can bet your bottom dollar there get it up as soon as they can. Colmore square was prime example, although inside quite shoody I have to admit they didnt mess around with it, Fitzgerald were doing thier stuff about 3 months after plans had been drawn up.

I'd like to know which 'social landlord' has units within Beetham..I don't think so.

i will ask my mate who, he works in the industry and 'social' just means reduced from full market rate, ie keyworkers. every development has them and he has mentioned them before, but not sure who is involved....

:laugh: I doubt it too!

What might have happened is that the developer subsidised accommodation elsewhere and not necessarily in the development itself. Or he might pay for street improvements, a health centre, kiddies playground etc etc

they are not aloowed to 'buy' there way out of obligations anymore, ie every development must have by law 25% social housing, which as i described is anything but, my mate worked on a major scheme in the city with affordable units, southside, orion, postbox and all of the recent wave, so i doubt HCT would have been able to get out of it....the only developer recently seems to be the guys behind Queens gate, who are also building a social housing block in digbeth, I am not making this up and Birmingham Council are very strict on this, the money for kiddies playground etc is the s106 monies and entirely seperate...

I fact i dont need to ask him, its focus and if you ring them you can put yur name down !!! but again you need to earn over 25'000 to even get a look in

Just for the record there is "affordable housing" (the new PC term for social housing) at HCT, Focus are the HA who will be dealing with it, if you want to put your name down for one.

cheers spread,

Its already in for full planning permission and the sites already cleared - Bio why will they wait 3 years after being given planning permission to start it?

That doesnt make sense. You can talk about the market etc, but its prime location, if they wait and wait, other buildings will start going up, such as City Park Gate, Martineau, Orion 2, Eastside etc. They will have less chance then of selling the apartments, let alone making money with a major Hotel outlet.

Richardsons dont wait around, and with something this size and important you can bet your bottom dollar there get it up as soon as they can. Colmore square was prime example, although inside quite shoody I have to admit they didnt mess around with it, Fitzgerald were doing thier stuff about 3 months after plans had been drawn up.

the reasons you state are the very reason they will wait to build it. with so many apartments either U?C or about to start, there is way too much choice and as a result, prices will be quit low. Richardson want to build their tower just as all the apartments in the current schemes have been sold......meaning their more lickly to get the type of prices they want.... at the moment, i recon the market is just that too much satuarated to make a hug scheme like this profitable.....hense all the secon wave sh*t....

I disagree, as soon as a hotel chain is on board ive no doubt they will begin construction.
Its a Prime location for a hotel, and they wont want to piss about

they are not aloowed to 'buy' there way out of obligations anymore, ie every development must have by law 25% social housing, which as i described is anything but, my mate worked on a major scheme in the city with affordable units, southside, orion, postbox and all of the recent wave, so i doubt HCT would have been able to get out of it....the only developer recently seems to be the guys behind Queens gate, who are also building a social housing block in digbeth, I am not making this up and Birmingham Council are very strict on this, the money for kiddies playground etc is the s106 monies and entirely seperate...

I fact i dont need to ask him, its focus and if you ring them you can put yur name down !!! but again you need to earn over 25'000 to even get a look in

I wasn't aware that the rulings had changed - but thanks for that Brum2003 - it's useful to know! :) The last resi development I worked on the developer paid for a playground miles away from the apartments!

Its already in for full planning permission and the sites already cleared - Bio why will they wait 3 years after being given planning permission to start it?

That doesnt make sense. You can talk about the market etc, but its prime location, if they wait and wait, other buildings will start going up, such as City Park Gate, Martineau, Orion 2, Eastside etc. They will have less chance then of selling the apartments, let alone making money with a major Hotel outlet.

Richardsons dont wait around, and with something this size and important you can bet your bottom dollar there get it up as soon as they can. Colmore square was prime example, although inside quite shoody I have to admit they didnt mess around with it, Fitzgerald were doing thier stuff about 3 months after plans had been drawn up.

That's the thing - Richardsons DO wait around, but no-one notices. They have owned the land (or at least the leasehold) for years so could have done something a while ago, but didn't. They are very shrewd - sit quietly, get Colmore Square done, sit quietly, release info on BST then see what the interest is. I am not saying they WON'T build it soon, but they are definitely looking at it long term. As we all agree, if they get the hotel & housebuilder on board then it will probably start asap after PP is granted, but they are in no rush.

And I doubt it whether the Richardsons will take a cut from each apartment - they propose, enaction then sell, so the apartments will sell for one tody sum and the hotel for another.

Wish I had the £££ and balls to do that! :) :) :)

Nice to see something of this size going to planning process so quickly, makes quite a change from months of uncertainty although theres still time! Pretty uninspiring renderings so far that don't give too much away.

I am concerned that the height might be a problem as it will be a similar height to HCT but it sits on higher ground around 15- 20 metres i'd say.

I can see a few floors being choped of this :bash:

totally bio, doesnt it piss you off knowing how to make tens of millions and just not having the capital to do it. it does me!

Nice to see something of this size going to planning process so quickly, makes quite a change from months of uncertainty although theres still time! Pretty uninspiring renderings so far that don't give too much away.

I am concerned that the height might be a problem as it will be a similar height to HCT but it sits on higher ground around 15- 20 metres i'd say.

I can see a few floors being choped of this :bash:

I cant, Richardsons have some contact with AC, they would no what the boundaries are, Im pretty sure 39 storeys is the final height, although you never know, if they sell quickly they might add some more on and really push the council.

totally bio, doesnt it piss you off knowing how to make tens of millions and just not having the capital to do it. it does me!

Oh if only I had a plot of land in a city centre..... :cry:

I know a developer (who has become a reasonably big name in Birmingham) who took a few attempts to make it though. He was declared bankrupt twice, but looks like he has got it right now...

That said, the guys to own the Mailbox apparently heard that Royal Mail were vacating their building, they left their respective companies (I think a property egency and a developer) went to the bank and said "this is what we'd like to do, please lend us £100 million" and got it!

I am sure it was a little more complex than that but that is the essence, and now it is one of the most famous buildings in Brum!

:laugh: I doubt it too!

What might have happened is that the developer subsidised accommodation elsewhere and not necessarily in the development itself. Or he might pay for street improvements, a health centre, kiddies playground etc etc

there is definitely social housing within Beetham tower. I posted the details months ago. I think its the housing association that has its offices at the top end of new street opposite the town hall.

for the last time this WILL be taler than HCT, by a metre or so

ooh, what a corker.

noice, unyoooojual, noice.

there is definitely social housing within Beetham tower. I posted the details months ago. I think its the housing association that has its offices at the top end of new street opposite the town hall.
Thats Focus. I'm amazed if this is true.. :no:

Ive got a funny feeling this tower might surpass 130m ... ummm

Coming into town on the Metro the 100m Alpha Tower is quite impressive and if this is higher and on slightly higher ground it should be a pleasant sight.If we add the elusive AC it would be a very nice collection indeed.

Coming into town on the Metro the 100m Alpha Tower is quite impressive and if this is higher and on slightly higher ground it should be a pleasant sight.If we add the elusive AC it would be a very nice collection indeed.

Well, I've been hearing closer to 140m then 130, If this is the case :runaway: more then I expected.

if there planning to put a heli pad on this then it would make sense to make it taller than other buildings around it would nt it, i wonder if this is a crafty way of getting round the caa bull shit? looks a similar size to hct from the renders though im sure they will be keen to push it for a few meters extra to claim brums tallest, this will have a good impact on the skyline as its on much higher ground as hct!

Helipad my arse! Who's gonna fall for that one? :D

If they're good enough for LA they're good enough for Brum!

Only Brum isn't much of a "motown" anymore, evidently, unlike its US counterpart. :D

Anyway off to bed now - Yanks Festival in Uppermill, Saddleworth [again] tomorrow, and another early start!

:wave:

The sooner the Travelodge and this little patch are replaced the better. I'm guessing Lee Longlands and Shimla Pinks will both stay as they are pleasant deco buildings

http://tinypic.com/aws2f7.jpg

http://tinypic.com/aws2o6.jpg

Tika tika is a proper dodgy kebab house!! lol

its hard to believe looking at your second picture that this is brums 'golden mile'
look at the state of those buildings.
Saying that 2 more venues have bit the dust recently, springbok is shut and 9 bar (stoodie bakers) has also finally bit the dust. Broad st is slowly dying.

SPRINGBOK IS SHUT....... never been to 9 bar so dont know bout that....wats been happening???? why are they dying?

Yeah trade has been slowly dropping away for about 2 years or so. mainly to other areas like the arcadian and summer row.
Also the licencing industry is in major decline nationally.
basically too many late licence bars and not enough customers too fill them. (its the same story in nottingham too)

well i suppose it aint too bad...... i mean broad street was ok but the last time i went out in birmingham i was supprised about how much more activity areas like the mailbox and the arcadian.... but hey, i think its a long time till birmingham becomes a dead town lol

definatly - the town will always be rockin on a saturday night. Its just a case that drinking circuits change.
Its always happened, for instance john bright st. used to be a very vibrant part of town now its completely different.

places like the arcadian and mailbox look real classy with the fountain and really nice buildings and open spaces. Broad street looks more tatty. If they could somehow make Broad street more aesthetically pleasing it would not lose so much trade. I am not sure what the "leicester square like" lighting scheme for the area with the neon signs will be like. Hopefully if they are well done it will make the area look better.

Its also full of twats as well, it aint what it was 5 years ago. doesnt really have the same vibe about it. to many chavs, and police are every where, which puts a dampner on the atmosphere.

well this is al part of the councils plan to tone down broad street. they are probably very happy that these clubs are closing down!

i do however agree with them ...... i mean in the day time the area is dead! this should not be the case. infact this is just as bad as a city centre being busy in the daytime and dead at night..... with this broad street improvement area cheme, it should turn the area into a nicer all day destination......and hopefully the pots or springbock with be replaced with a nice bar/cafe/ resturant!

I see where your comin from, but the area isnt really dead during the day time. there is an awful lot of office's at 5ways remember, which means between 12pm and 2 pm the street is infact fairly busy. Same at around 6pm as they go home.

As for cafe's its probably not gonna be a big success due to the fact that the street is extremely busy with traffic and is so far away from the main shopping areas.