In the Toronto transit vs Chicago transit thread, one Chicago visitor mentioned a certain kind of social stigma that he felt when riding transit. Is riding public transit for purposes other than the daily commute expected of only poorer people? Is there any shame in taking the bus instead of driving?

^Yeah, I saw that he said that and totally disagreed. I'm interested to know what others think about this issue as well.

I live in the 'burbs and have to drive almost everywhere. I love just sitting back in the train, relaxing. I have no idea what kind of social stigma there could be.

I think the suburban public generally associates mass transit with poor people. This is certainly the case with regard to buses. This is probably much less the case with rapid transit. But I think in general that Americans see traveling as a *private activity" not a public activity. With the exception of New Yorkers, a good number of Chicagoans and other urbanites, Americans are not inured to the minor irritations associated with mass transit. I think it may be especially surprising for many suburbanites to see people of various class backgrounds all in the same small space together, either on the bus or the city train. Many middle class (mostly white) people may find travel in the presence of lower class people taxing. Part of it probably has to do with race and whites' fear of blacks. Only once middle class people have become accustomed to travel in diverse company, or simply take it for granted growing up in NYC do they come realize its no big deal.

As such, mass transit has a bad image. To my surprise, a good friend of mine who lives in West Chicago and frequently rides the Metra downtown reacted with disgust when I mentioned the El. Not sure exactly why. Is the El that much dirtier than the Metra? I never found it dirty. For some suburbanites, the El may be tainted by the beggars who go car to car soliciting.

^Never heard of anyone out here having any problems with the El either.

Buses, yeah, some people don't like them. I don't. I prefer to walk, when possible. But if faced with a situation in which I HAD to choose between driving and busing, I'd probably take this bus, unless it was a situation in which I had to take two buses to get somwhere. Screw that.

Social Stigma? That seems absurd to me. I've been taking public transportation for years, and I grew up in the burbs (I took it then too). What sort of social stigma is there in riding the 'el'? anyone who thinks that has clearly never ridden it during the morning rush as I have for the past nine years.

It probably depends on what line or route your taking, too.

There are plenty of people who associate public transit with poor people--mostly outside the city but some inside, too.

On the other hand, take the Purple Line from the Loop at 5:00 and you'll be with several dozen high-powered businessmen in any given car. Take the Red or Brown Line on a Friday or Saturday night and you'll be with a bunch of yuppy-ish people going to the fanciest clubs. Take the Blue Line whenever and you'll be with all sorts of people--including plenty of businessmen--going to O'Hare. And at any other time on any line, you'll be with a pretty fair cross-section of the city.

So: yes, stigma exists among some people, but no, it is not in any way a reflection of reality.

I'm not trying to stereotype or anything, but it probably depends on which part of town you're traveling in. If I were to catch a bus on the North side, around Lincoln Park/Lakeview or whatever, I'd probably have a much different experience or view point than somebody taking it on, for example, the South side.

I guess I'll need to experience it first hand this summer. I'll be in town sometime in August. :D

^ What? Are you saying the North Side and the South Side are different?

^ What? Are you saying the North Side and the South Side are different?

Oh, my... they are, who would have thought? (But then again you're dealing with someone who has taken the red-line from one and to the other on more than one occasion, althought not all at once ... no I've never ridden all the way from 95th to howard, and I intend to keep it that way ... but I did ride from Addison to 95th once in high school, now that was a long trip)

:eek2:

^ Actually, funnily enough, I was down in the Pullman/Roseland area a weekend or two ago and was struck with how similar it looked to West Rogers Park.

But yeah, I've also been to the parts that don't.

The CTA while it may have its problems is not socially stigmatized by the populace. Maybe it is just the shell I'm in. The CTA is ridden by everyone from all income groups in large numbers. I have never heard anyone surprised or shocked that I ride the CTA and that I don't own a car except maybe tourists.

When I tell people I dont have a car they always answer "Yea, it would be kind of stupid to have where you live" or "I wouldnt have a car either in that neighborhood". They know other transporation is there, they don't look down one me for it. In fact they are envious that everything is so convient.

There are plenty of people who associate public transit with poor people--mostly outside the city but some inside, too.

On the other hand, take the Purple Line from the Loop at 5:00 and you'll be with several dozen high-powered businessmen in any given car. Take the Red or Brown Line on a Friday or Saturday night and you'll be with a bunch of yuppy-ish people going to the fanciest clubs. Take the Blue Line whenever and you'll be with all sorts of people--including plenty of businessmen--going to O'Hare. And at any other time on any line, you'll be with a pretty fair cross-section of the city.

So: yes, stigma exists among some people, but no, it is not in any way a reflection of reality.

The blue line also has its share of yuppies (Wicker Park/Bucktown) but also has alot of businessmen who work in the Loop that will get off at Irving Park, Jefferson Park stations. Brown and Red lines on the northside always seem to have a very young crowd no matter what time of day.

I don't know anybody who feels that riding the CTA is a stigma. Everyone I know who lives in the city rides it all the time, and my family and friends who don't live in the city said that they would if they lived here (and do when they come and visit me). Nobody I knew thought it was odd when I chose not to replace my car, most people (even my family from the burbs) said it made sense (especially since I only drove the damn thing 2 days a week anyway). Perhaps in some crowds that may be the case, but I haven't the slightest idea what crowds those would be.

Some guy from the burbs tells a visitor don't take the subway and that former then claims "Chicago is anti transit". What a moron.

"The blue line also has its share of yuppies (Wicker Park/Bucktown) but also has alot of businessmen who work in the Loop that will get off at Irving Park, Jefferson Park stations. Brown and Red lines on the northside always seem to have a very young crowd no matter what time of day."

Whenever I'm on the Blue Line on the North Side with a friend of mine, we play "Guess Who's Getting off a Damen."

Guessing who is going to get off at Damen is a total crapshoot isn't it, and the mix can be quite amusing (I've been getting off at Damen recently because they have more bike racks than Division, but I'm equal distance from both).

^What's special about the Damen stop?

Sorry--I don't have much of a grasp on Chicago's neighborhoods yet!

Damen is in the heart of Wicker Park. We choose people based on the correct number and placement of piercings, non-traditional haircuts, etc.

I'm afraid I'd disappoint you ... I not your typical wicker park resident, more here for the cheap rent I found myself with (got in a family building and am sitting pretty), not for the hipness of the neighborhood ... although I've been known to play hipster bingo (http://www.catbirdseat.org/catbirdseat/bingo.html) on occaision for giggles ;)

Alright--I was in Chicago last week, and used quite a bit of public transit. I didn't notice any sort of stigma. It was a great experience.