New Four Seasons hotel will be unveiled today for the corner of Bay and Yorkville. An adjoining condo is also in the works! What is currently at that corner?
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050724.wfour0724/BNStory/Business/

Let's see, now we have Trump, Ritz, the Hazelton, and Four Seasons II planned for the high end hotel market, and Stinson and Maple Leaf Square planned for the mid-range market. Plus a couple of small boutique hotels in the works for College and Queen. That's a lot of new beds for an industry struggling to get back on its feet. The Hazelton is already under construction, and Trump will likely start by early next year. As for the rest, I have my doubts.

There is no way that 55 stories at that location will be approved.

Expect MAJOR changes to this project before it gets off the drawing board into sales mode.

55s for a hotel would be at least 650 - 700 feet - I think anything even over 400 or 450 feet would be a stretch for that location.

New Four Seasons hotel will be unveiled today for the corner of Bay and Yorkville. An adjoining condo is also in the works! What is currently at that corner?
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050724.wfour0724/BNStory/Business/

Some crappy 1 storey shopping complex I think.

Some crappy 1 storey shopping complex I think.
I think there's a parking lot or car dealership on the north side just west of there. Let's hope that phase II will go over that!

BTW: http://www.yorkvilleresidences.com/

Article copied from billy corgan on UT:

Menkes to Develop a New Four Seasons Hotel and Private Residences in Toronto's Yorkville

Four Seasons, the Standard Bearer of Quality in the City to Further Define Yorkville as Epicentre of Affluence and Style

TORONTO, July 25 /CNW/ - Bay-Yorkville Developments Ltd., a joint venture between Menkes Developments and Lifetime Homes, both of Toronto and Halcyon Ventures of Boston, announced today that it has recently signed an agreement in principle with Kingdom Hotels to pursue the development of a new 265-room luxury hotel.

Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts has agreed to operate the hotel, which is one component of a mixed-use development to include Four Seasons branded and serviced condominiums and high-end retail. Owners of the Four Seasons residences will have access to all hotel services and amenities, including unparalleled dining, a pool, spa and health club facilities, and banqueting and conference facilities. The total value of the project is $325 million and is expected to create about 1,600 construction jobs in the
city.
Located in Toronto's exclusive Yorkville district, at the northeast corner of Bay Street and Yorkville Avenue, the new mixed-use development is just a few blocks from the current Four Seasons Hotel Toronto. The project will be co-developed by Menkes Developments and Lifetime Homes.
"Four Seasons has a long track record of managing exceptional mixed-use hotel-condominium developments around the world," said Murray Menkes of Menkes
Developments. "Given the landmark location and prestigious nature of this site, we feel this represents an unparalleled opportunity to build a new Four Seasons in Toronto, and to establish a new benchmark for luxury condominium
living in the city. In recent years this type of mixed-use development has become the cornerstone of some of the world's most desirable urban neighbourhoods, including Four Seasons Residences in San Francisco, Miami,
Hong Kong, and Moscow, and we believe the time is ideal to bring this world class standard to Toronto."
"Yorkville is quickly becoming one of North America's most vibrant, exclusive residential and hotel locations," said Kyle Rae, Toronto City Councillor, Toronto Centre-Rosedale. "Recently Condé Nast Traveler magazine
described the opening of the first Four Seasons Hotel Toronto in 1978 as the 'catalyst for a new Yorkville.' The new Four Seasons hotel and residences will have a similar effect, anchoring the next generation of Yorkville that will
extend beyond Bay to Yonge Street."
"Toronto now appeals to an ever-growing group of travelers and residential buyers who want the very best." said Isadore Sharp, Founder, Chairman and CEO, Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts. "Looking ahead, there is a
unique opportunity to serve those needs with a hotel and residential experience which will be second to none. We are delighted to be working with Bay-Yorkville Developments and Kingdom Hotels on this exciting new project."
Planning approval applications are currently underway for the project. A sales presentation centre for the condominium residences is scheduled to open in early 2006. Construction is expected to begin by the end of 2006, with project completion slated for the beginning of 2009. Further details on the project can be found at www.yorkvilleresidences.com.
Four Seasons continues to manage its award-winning Toronto hotel, at Avenue Road and Yorkville Avenue. Home to Truffles, the city's only AAA-rated Five-Diamond restaurant and Avenue, one of Toronto's top bar and dining
venues, the Hotel will continue to be a draw for sophisticated visitors to the city as well as local patrons.

Copied from the site:

Four Seasons Hotel Toronto has been the icon of life en vogue in the city for more than 25 years. Now, along with the development of a new luxury hotel in the Yorkville neighbourhood, Four Seasons is introducing its internationally renowned collection of private residences to Toronto.

These exquisitely designed condominiums will range in size to over 5,000 sq. ft. and will be accessed from a private courtyard to an opulent lobby with 24 hour Concierge service and private elevator access. Of course, residents will also enjoy Four Seasons services and amenities including sumptuous restaurants and bars, valet parking, in-room dining and housekeeping service as well as an extraordinary Spa and Fitness Centre on the seventh floor. This is the Four Seasons lifestyle.

http://www.yorkvilleresidences.com/grafx/map.jpg

Let's see, now we have Trump, Ritz, the Hazelton, and Four Seasons II planned for the high end hotel market, and Stinson and Maple Leaf Square planned for the mid-range market. Plus a couple of small boutique hotels in the works for College and Queen. That's a lot of new beds for an industry struggling to get back on its feet. The Hazelton is already under construction, and Trump will likely start by early next year. As for the rest, I have my doubts.

Don't forget the NIMBY's of Yorkville. They went crazy over 100 Yorkville/Bellair which was only 18s, imagine what would happen if this is to be built. :bash:

I'll be glad to see this built (assuming the architecture isn't hideous), as it is currently a very large parking lot.

I don't see how this will be approved. I'm not too familiar with the location, but isn't that the heart of Yorkville?

Anyway, I'm usually very optimistic on these things but how many new hotel rooms can the city support?

Trump 70
Ritz 50ish
Hazelton (?)
Four Seasons II 55
Stinson's 1 King West 51
Stinson's Sapphire 90
Maple Leaf Square 45ish

trumptoronto?

I don't see how this will be approved. I'm not too familiar with the location, but isn't that the heart of Yorkville?

Anyway, I'm usually very optimistic on these things but how many new hotel rooms can the city support?

Trump 70
Ritz 50ish
Hazelton (?)
Four Seasons II 55
Stinson's 1 King West 51
Stinson's Sapphire 90
Maple Leaf Square 45ish

trumptoronto?

I think these hotel investors are betting on a few things increasing Toronto's draw:

1. world class opera house (acoustically)
2. expanded museum with showy architecture
3. expanded art gallery with world's best known architect
4. Lord of the Rings
5. slowly improving waterfront
6. the expansion and completion of the Distillery District
7. the growing popularity of the TIFF
8. the completion of Dundas Square (our Times Square), including a music hall of fame
9. possible addition of an aquarium
10. second tier projects like the expansion of the Ceramics museum, RCOM, ballet school, possibly a planetarium
11. the general gentrification of the city's core, ie. King, Queen and College increases upscale dining and shopping options

Granted, some of these draws will not appeal to the 4 and 5 star hotel patrons, but Sapphire and Maple Leaf Square are aiming more at the mid-market.

Who's the architect? It looks like Peter Clewes or KPMB

Mr Man,

Trump 70
Ritz 50ish
Hazelton (?)
Four Seasons II 55
Stinson's 1 King West 51
Stinson's Sapphire 90
Maple Leaf Square 45ish

Ritz is 56, Hazelton is 8 I think

Maple Leaf Square... the condos are 45 - The hotel is a small component of approx 100 rooms in a couple of floors of the podium.

But I agree this list of future hotels is very ambitious.

I don't see how this will be approved. I'm not too familiar with the location, but isn't that the heart of Yorkville?

Anyway, I'm usually very optimistic on these things but how many new hotel rooms can the city support?

Trump 70
Ritz 50ish
Hazelton (?)
Four Seasons II 55
Stinson's 1 King West 51
Stinson's Sapphire 90
Maple Leaf Square 45ish

trumptoronto?

Then again, look at it this way: 1 King West is sold out, Trump's hotels have sold well, the Hazelton is already under construction, the Ritz can rely on its international reputation, and so can the Four Seasons to some extent, plus as mentioned, Maple Leaf Square doesn't have too many hotel rooms. That leaves Sapphire, which has been a doubtful project from day 1.

Anyone seen the Globe and Mail paper today, there's a render of the ground level of the building.

yorkville is a popular place for alot of hollywood actors who spend months filming in the city ,im sure they wont have a problem finding wealthy clientele !

Mr Man,



Ritz is 56, Hazelton is 8 I think

Maple Leaf Square... the condos are 45 - The hotel is a small component of approx 100 rooms in a couple of floors of the podium.

But I agree this list of future hotels is very ambitious.

Thanks.

Then again, look at it this way: 1 King West is sold out, Trump's hotels have sold well, the Hazelton is already under construction, the Ritz can rely on its international reputation, and so can the Four Seasons to some extent, plus as mentioned, Maple Leaf Square doesn't have too many hotel rooms. That leaves Sapphire, which has been a doubtful project from day 1.

If they can all be built, the better! I have no doubt that all of them have the potential of getting built. Sapphire may be iffy, but I'll give Stinson the benefit of the doubt. So let's say they all get built and hit the market.Where I have serious doubts is viability. Can all of them being financially viable to investors who bought the hotel suites?

We may not have seen formal hotels being announced in the past, but condo projects such as the Skyline International must be stealing business away from traditional hotels. And there are a lot of condos on the market already that act as short-stay rentals, more or less a hotel.

If they all get built, it will be great for the city regardless of whether the investors make money or not. So this turns the spotlight on the investors. They must have similar concerns about purchasing a hotel suite knowing the full gult that will be hitting the market soon. Although all of them have the potential of being built, I wonder how many will actually be getting built. Plus I'm sure the NIMBYs will have a field day with a 55-storey hotel in the heart of Yorkville. I'm probably the biggest height enthusiast here, but even I think this one may be a little too much given the location.

Anyone have any pictures of the site?

Thanks.



If they can all be built, the better! I have no doubt that all of them have the potential of getting built. Sapphire may be iffy, but I'll give Stinson the benefit of the doubt. So let's say they all get built and hit the market.Where I have serious doubts is viability. Can all of them being financially viable to investors who bought the hotel suites?

We may not have seen formal hotels being announced in the past, but condo projects such as the Skyline International must be stealing business away from traditional hotels. And there are a lot of condos on the market already that act as short-stay rentals, more or less a hotel.

If they all get built, it will be great for the city regardless of whether the investors make money or not. So this turns the spotlight on the investors. They must have similar concerns about purchasing a hotel suite knowing the full gult that will be hitting the market soon. Although all of them have the potential of being built, I wonder how many will actually be getting built. Plus I'm sure the NIMBYs will have a field day with a 55-storey hotel in the heart of Yorkville. I'm probably the biggest height enthusiast here, but even I think this one may be a little too much given the location.

Anyone have any pictures of the site?

The site is a parking lot. It's very unsightly, and cheapens the look of Yorkville. I think 55 storeys so close to the Yonge-Bloor cluster of highrises isn't really that much of a stretch. 18 Yorkville is just east of there at 36 storeys. Maybe the hotel will get a few floors knocked off of it, but I think the city will approve the building with at least 40 floors. The city could use the tax revenue. Just a hunch.

"but condo projects such as the Skyline International must be stealing business away from traditional hotels."

Skyline Cosmopolitan is not a condo


"Anyway, I'm usually very optimistic on these things but how many new hotel rooms can the city support?

Trump - 216
Ritz - 267
Hazelton - 80
Four Seasons II - 380
Stinson's 1 King West - ~550
Stinson's Sapphire -~1100
Maple Leaf Square -~150
Adelaide Hotel -~30




That's a lot of hotel rooms to go on top of those recently opened

I think developers start there height off higher than they want to build so they end up with the height they want...especially in NIMBY infested areas. Its like buying a car.

There is no way that 55 stories at that location will be approved.

Expect MAJOR changes to this project before it gets off the drawing board into sales mode.

55s for a hotel would be at least 650 - 700 feet - I think anything even over 400 or 450 feet would be a stretch for that location.


But why not? This is not Suburbia! It's Toronto... mini New York! What the hell is wrong with the frickin' NIMBIES?!?!?!

The city could use the tax revenue. Just a hunch.

You would think that would be the case, but the city does some very strange things sometimes. For example, Trump wanted 71-storeys, but the city would only approve 70. The city turned away an opportunity to add over $150,000 annually to revenues. Why?

But why not? This is not Suburbia! It's Toronto... mini New York! What the hell is wrong with the frickin' NIMBIES?!?!?!

If you can't tell the difference between this proposal and a development like Minto YE, that's your problem.

Thats interesting though, why would Minto be allowed at Y&E, which isn't nearly as built up as Yorkville be allowed, yet they wouldn't allow this at Yorkville? Sorry im just confused at the logic I think. please explain...

Anything to keep T.O's skyline rising.. and of course looking better.

Thats interesting though, why would Minto be allowed at Y&E, which isn't nearly as built up as Yorkville be allowed, yet they wouldn't allow this at Yorkville? Sorry im just confused at the logic I think. please explain...

Well its pretty obvious that the people of Yorkville want everything to be relatively short so it fits the Victorian scale so nothing dwarfs over them. And they don't seem to want too many people moving into Yorkville, that's why many condos are so controversial in YE like Hazelton, and 100 Y/B.

Eglinton and Yonge already has 2 twins, one of them being at 400 ft. And Y and E already has that downtown feel in Uptown TO with the stretch of Yonge being quite dense so it doesn't feel too out of place. But Minto had problems with the local NIMBY's and was originally proposed to be taller.

Thats interesting though, why would Minto be allowed at Y&E, which isn't nearly as built up as Yorkville be allowed, yet they wouldn't allow this at Yorkville? Sorry im just confused at the logic I think. please explain...

Well, it's right under a subway line and at a major intersection. There is already a bunch of high-rises in the area too.

With Yorkville, this tower is essentially rising in the middle of a low-rise neighbourhood, on a narrow street. Would it make sense to stick a 50-storey tower along the Danforth or The Beach?

LOL, I'd like to see someone propose a 50 storey tower in the Beach - a neighbourhood with strict development guidlines (instituted by a partnership between the community and planners ) and whose tallest (by a wide margin) is only 7 storeys

If anyone wants to see the rendering, it's available from Toronto Now on the CBC until Tuesday evening when they update the link after the next show. I couldn't seem to get any screen-shots from it. Just fast-forward 10 minutes into the program... http://www.cbc.ca/canadanowtoronto/

^Dude, they only show the base

Okay

It's about time someone is developing that block between Yonge and Bay. 18 Yorkville does a good job of taking care of the Yonge side of it...this will take care of the Bay end of it. That block might technically be Yorkville, but was never psychologically never a part of it...a kinda no-man's land between Bay and Yonge...this will change all that.

It's also about time that the home base of Four Seasons had a building that matched it's reputation....I know the 1978 tower goes back before they developed that rep, but it's long overdue.

I thought Cumberland Terrace was supposed to be re-developed as well? What happened to that?






KGB

^too cheap to buy out some of the tenants contracts?

The redevelopment plan was quite ugly anyways

Jul. 26, 2005. 09:28 AM
CP PHOTO
Four Seasons Hotels Inc. says it has agreed to operate a new luxury hotel to be built by 2009 on Toronto’s ritzy Yorkville Avenue, as shown in this artist’s rendition.
INVESTMENT LINKS ...
Click to launch
Luxury inns rising
Projects to add 800 beds at $350 a night
Critics see glut of upscale rooms by 2009

TONY WONG
BUSINESS REPORTER

Toronto has turned out to be the unlikely battlefield in what promises to be a full-fledged war between the world's ultra-luxury hoteliers.

Yesterday, Toronto-based Four Seasons Hotels Inc., along with local and international partners, unveiled plans to build a new $325 million flagship in the Yorkville area, only blocks from Toronto's existing Four Seasons hotel.

The Four Seasons is fending off a challenge from powerful rivals such as the Ritz-Carlton Hotel and Residences, which months earlier announced a $300 million project in the city's entertainment district, and the Trump International Hotel & Tower, backed by high-profile New York pitchman Donald Trump.

The turn of events, three five-star hotels in the city planned for completion in 2009, is astonishing, considering that only a few years ago industry insiders were bemoaning Toronto's dearth of good hotels.

Now the question might be, will there too many?

In four years, an additional 800-plus beds catering to those with money will be opening in Toronto, creating a potential glut in the market for $350-and-up hotel rooms. "The fact that there are all these very reputable companies looking at Toronto as a market can only be good for the city," says Aynsley Wintrip, spokeswoman for Four Seasons. "We feel the market is ready for the type of product we are introducing."

"This will be the flagship Four Seasons building for the world," said Alan Menkes, president of Menkes Developments and one of the developers of the hotel.

The 265-room hotel will have up to 150 condominium residences at the corner of Bay St. and Yorkville Ave. A distinctive glass jewel box atrium will house the public areas.

One reason the Four Seasons may be building a new hotel may simply be a sense of pride. Long considered the leading luxury hotel brand in the world, Toronto's current Four Seasons has been criticized for needing refurbishment compared with more upscale Four Seasons hotels in other cities, despite being considered by many to be the best hotel in the city. The barbs may have stung Four Seasons chief executive Isadore Sharp, since his headquarters are in Toronto and the hotel is the site of the company's annual general meeting.

"It certainly needed some work. I think they looked at the options, they could either spend another $80,000 fixing up each suite, or just build a new hotel," said Greg Kwong, executive vice-president of CB Richard Ellis.

The existing Four Seasons hotel in Yorkville, the favourite hangout of the Toronto film festival crowd, will remain a Four Seasons, said Wintrip. Several other cities, including Los Angeles, Tokyo and Chicago, have two Four Seasons, said Wintrip.

However, Kwong said he believes the older hotel may be sold or rebranded once the new Four Seasons is built. "It doesn't make sense to have the two this close to each other. But they have the flexibility to do what they want."

The current Four Seasons was originally a Hyatt when it was rebranded a Four Seasons in 1978. The development is a joint venture between Menkes Developments and Lifetime Homes, both of Toronto, and Halcyon Ventures of Boston, along with Kingdom Hotels, which is run by Saudi Arabia's Prince al-Waleed and already has a 22 per cent ownership stake in Four Seasons. The prince purchased the real estate for the existing Four Seasons property this year.

The property, which now contains several two-storey retail units that will be eventually razed, has room for a phase two, which could hold another 150 to 200 Four Seasons branded condominium units, said Menkes.

The Yorkville area has been particularly hot for condos, with recent developments such as 100 Yorkville selling quickly. In addition, the 77-hotel room Hazelton Hotel is set for completion in early 2007.

Barry Landsberg, spokesman for the Trump hotel, said the fact that three major hoteliers chose to build in Toronto simultaneously speaks volumes for the vitality of the city. "We were obviously the first. It took the impetus of the Trump organization for the other folks to get on board," said Landsberg.

However, he said he did not view the other projects as competition, since they are each planned for different parts of the city, with the Trump hotel squarely in the financial district and the Ritz in the entertainment district.

Menkes said it was too early to determine what prices will be for the Four Seasons' condominium component. But given the premium branding and posh location, it will likely set a new highwater mark for condominium residences in Toronto.

The cheapest condo at the Trump building is already $1.7 million for 2,200 square feet.

If Four Seasons decides to operate two hotels, it would likely see a diminished rate for the older hotel, said Kwong.

And while Toronto hotel occupancy rates have climbed back to the mid-70s from a dismal 40 per cent during SARS, there are no guarantees that business and leisure travel to Toronto will remain strong, he said.

Additional articles by Tony Wong



› Get great home delivery subscription deals here!

FAQs| Site Map| Privacy Policy| Webmaster| Subscribe| My Subscription
Home| GTA| Business| Waymoresports| A&E| Life
Legal Notice: Copyright Toronto Star Newspapers Limited. All rights reserved. Distribution, transmission or republication of any material from www.thestar.com is strictly prohibited without the prior written permission of Toronto Star Newspapers Limited. For information please contact us using our webmaster form. www.thestar.com online since 1996.

what is this hazelton hotel? how tall is it?

Why has no one posted this yet:

http://www.thestar.com/images/thestar/img/050726_new_hotel_250.jpg

I thought Cumberland Terrace was supposed to be re-developed as well? What happened to that?

KGB

It was approved a long time ago. Maybe we'll be pleasantly suprised when a rendering is finally released.

MLSE + Murano + Ritz = http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/5024/fourseasonstoronto4qm.jpg

what is this hazelton hotel? how tall is it?

http://www.urbandb.com/canada/ontario/toronto/hazeltonhotel.jpg

An 8s high end hotel/condo currently under construction right now.

Why has no one posted this yet:

http://www.thestar.com/images/thestar/img/050726_new_hotel_250.jpg

The towers look like the typical towers going up in Toronto these days but the base looks pretty exceptional. The towers judging from that pic alone look like they should be in the 550 ft. range. Hotel ceiling heights aren't necessarily that tall, the new Mandarin Oriental hotel being proposed in Chicago is 90s tall and 879 ft.

"It was approved a long time ago. Maybe we'll be pleasantly suprised when a rendering is finally released."

You haven't seen it! Like I said - UGGGGGLLLLLY

http://www.tfai.com/upload/images/CumberlandTerraceNew.jpg
Turner Fleischer Architects Inc.

If you can't tell the difference between this proposal and a development like Minto YE, that's your problem.

There's no logic behind it. Yonge/Eglinton is not downtown. Its midtown.

The talls belong downtown with the other talls. That's logic.

HOLY CRAP! Four Seasons is Toronto-based!? Is that why there was a Canadian flag at The Pierre in NYC?

HOLY CRAP! Four Seasons is Toronto-based!? Is that why there was a Canadian flag at The Pierre in NYC?

Speaking of Yorkville people, my brother gets mad when he has to share an elevator with someone in the condo.

Yes, the Four Seasons is one of Toronto's better known companies (if you're wondering, it's an original Toronto company...didn't just have a controlling interest bought by a Toronto group, as is the case with Fairmont).

You would think that would be the case, but the city does some very strange things sometimes. For example, Trump wanted 71-storeys, but the city would only approve 70. The city turned away an opportunity to add over $150,000 annually to revenues. Why?

Considering the site was zoned 8 times density I think the city gave the developers pretty much what they wanted. Stop worrying about one floor when they gave 50 or more floors to the development.

Would one extra storey on a 70-storey building really make any material planning difference? Trump on the other hand could have made another 10 to 20 million dollars in sales from that one extra storey. Also what's the property taxes now days on a condo/hotel suite? That one extra storey could have netted the city another $150,000 to $200,000 in annual property taxes. Sure it's small in the grand scheme of things, but to me every little bit counts.

"It was approved a long time ago. Maybe we'll be pleasantly suprised when a rendering is finally released."

You haven't seen it! Like I said - UGGGGGLLLLLY

http://www.tfai.com/upload/images/CumberlandTerraceNew.jpg
Turner Fleischer Architects Inc.

Slabtastic!

Would one extra storey on a 70-storey building really make any material planning difference? Trump on the other hand could have made another 10 to 20 million dollars in sales from that one extra storey. Also what's the property taxes now days on a condo/hotel suite? That one extra storey could have netted the city another $150,000 to $200,000 in annual property taxes. Sure it's small in the grand scheme of things, but to me every little bit counts.

I honestly don't understand why 1 storey on a 1000 foot tall skyscraper makes that much of a difference.

"It was approved a long time ago. Maybe we'll be pleasantly suprised when a rendering is finally released."

You haven't seen it! Like I said - UGGGGGLLLLLY

http://www.tfai.com/upload/images/CumberlandTerraceNew.jpg
Turner Fleischer Architects Inc.

Don't really care for the tower, but the base actually looks interesting!

The building's smei-decent but it looks pretty oppresive. I do like the fact that the streetwall's pushing well above three-stories which is pretty common outside of the core. However, a little more variation at street level would make this building a little more appealing.

That pic is hardly 55 storeys.... maybe 35 at the most. Also, there are supposedly two towers.

That pic is hardly 55 storeys.... maybe 35 at the most. Also, there are supposedly two towers.

That isn't the Four Season's...it's Hazelton Lanes, I believe.

Amazing! I didn't know Four Seasons was a Toronto company nor that they were planning a new flagship hotel. Good news anyway, we'll have a few world class hotels all in one nabe - Four Seasons, Hyatt, and Inter Continental... HILTON WHERE ARE YOU!

Anyway what's this:
http://www.tfai.com/upload/images/CumberlandTerraceNew.jpg

^ Isn't that the redesign of Cumberland Terrace?

Would one extra storey on a 70-storey building really make any material planning difference? Trump on the other hand could have made another 10 to 20 million dollars in sales from that one extra storey. Also what's the property taxes now days on a condo/hotel suite? That one extra storey could have netted the city another $150,000 to $200,000 in annual property taxes. Sure it's small in the grand scheme of things, but to me every little bit counts.

So where do you draw the line? 71? 72? 80? There's money to consider but there's also how it impacts on the city and services below. You ask what one more floor would mean but the fact is they already gave them some 50 floors more than the density requires. Isn't that enough?

So where do you draw the line? 71? 72? 80? There's money to consider but there's also how it impacts on the city and services below. You ask what one more floor would mean but the fact is they already gave them some 50 floors more than the density requires. Isn't that enough?

I'm sure similar arguments, just like the one we're having right now, were made when the first skyscrapers of Downtown Toronto were on the planning board. Overall FCP, Scotia Plaza, TD Centre and all the rest have all had a positive impact on the city. Did it really create a negative environment as some claimed as the towers greatly exceeded zoning at the time? Would it even matter if each of them were built with just one additional storey?

You asked me what kind of impacts the Trump Tower will have on the city and city services. In my opinion it will bring nothing but positives to the city and city services. To me, it's the new Single Family homes being built in the last remaining pockets of Scarborough and Etobicoke that have a negative impact on the city and city services. These areas are not transit friendly, and people rely on their cars to get around. This congests the streets, and money must be spent adding to road capacity. Furthermore, a subdivison of single family homes would not bring in as much tax revenue as a building like Trump, yet consume far more city services than the Trump Tower. Things like garbage collection in a sprawling subdivison is mighty expensive while the Trump Tower still pays property taxes for tax collection even though it has a private company do the work.

Would the negative impacts of a 71-storey tower outweigh the benefits to the city such a tower would bring? If the anser to that question is yes, then I would not support the additional storey. As I said before, that's not the case. To have the site intentionally zoned for 20-storeys is underutilization. It's just a method the planning department keeps to control developments and to ensure adequate Section 37 revenue. There is no line to draw as height limits and density restrictions is completely subjective. Some height limits make good planning sense such as Vancouver protecting view vistas, or a smaller town protecting a park from being overshadowed. But in Toronto's case, it's a whole different story.

Stinson's Sapphire tower greatly exceeds the height limit on that particular plot of land. At 55x density, it's the highest density building in the city, perhaps the world. Should the city give the tumbs down to Sapphire?
What exactly should the height limit/density limit be on Downtown Toronto? I don't know, but I disagree an arbitrary line should be drawn.

^ Isn't that the redesign of Cumberland Terrace?

Yes, I think that's it.

My mistake.

What's the status on Cumberland Terrace anyway. I thought the mall owners were just waiting until the leases finished. Did they re-lease?