Birmingham Transport [Archive] - Page 19

Biosonic

June 21st, 2010, 05:16 PM

General transport news:

http://www.cnplus.co.uk/sectors/transport/twelve-transport-schemes-survive-treasury-cuts/8601745.article

Twelve transport schemes survive Treasury cuts
18 June, 2010 | By Michael Lane

Twelve major Department for Transport schemes, initially approved for funding by the previous Labour government, have survived the coalition’s latest round of cuts.

The schemes re-approved by the government include the Luton-Dunstable guided busway, on which Bam Nuttall is undertaking the £90m main contract, and the Twin Sails Bridge project, which Hochtief is contracted to build, in Poole, Dorset.

Other projects, which were approved between January 2010 and the General Election, on the list are the £18m maintenance project on the Silver Jubilee Bridge, which links Runcorn and Widnes across the Mersey, the Tyne and Wear Metro and the £121m Manchester Metrolink upgrade.

The full list of projects is as follows:

Luton-Dunstable Busway (Luton)
A130/A13 Sadlers Farm Junction (Essex)
Tees Valley Bus Network Improvements (Tees Valley LAs)
Metrolink Extn - Ashton - E Didsbury (Greater Manchester)
Edge Lane / Eastern Approaches (Liverpool)
Bidston Moss Viaduct (M53 J1) Maintenance (Merseyside)
Poole Bridge (Poole)
A41 Expressway (Sandwell)
A65 QBC (Leeds)
Silver Jubilee Bridge Maintenance (Halton)
Tyne and Wear Metro
M1 J19 Catthorpe Viaduct Replacement

Typhoon2000

June 22nd, 2010, 02:17 AM

General transport news:

http://www.cnplus.co.uk/sectors/transport/twelve-transport-schemes-survive-treasury-cuts/8601745.article

That Catthorpe intyerchange is unbelievably dangerous and looking at the design, seems to have been done on the cheap way back when it opened.. so many roads feeding onto a figure of eight style loop under a double lane bridge with short slipways from the motorway exits and the usual congestion and HGV activity.

Their plan was to prevent access from the M1 (southbound) in an all new refit but would have the problem of cutting of trade access links. Really, an all new roundabout system and extended slipways are what is really needed to bring this road up to date - certainly from a safetyy point of view..

Shel

June 22nd, 2010, 12:34 PM

Twelve transport schemes survive Treasury cuts
18 June, 2010 | By Michael Lane

Twelve major Department for Transport schemes, initially approved for funding by the previous Labour government, have survived the coalition’s latest round of cuts.

The schemes re-approved by the government include the Luton-Dunstable guided busway, on which Bam Nuttall is undertaking the £90m main contract, and the Twin Sails Bridge project, which Hochtief is contracted to build, in Poole, Dorset.

Other projects, which were approved between January 2010 and the General Election, on the list are the £18m maintenance project on the Silver Jubilee Bridge, which links Runcorn and Widnes across the Mersey, the Tyne and Wear Metro and the £121m Manchester Metrolink upgrade.

The full list of projects is as follows:

Luton-Dunstable Busway (Luton)
A130/A13 Sadlers Farm Junction (Essex)
Tees Valley Bus Network Improvements (Tees Valley LAs)
Metrolink Extn - Ashton - E Didsbury (Greater Manchester)
Edge Lane / Eastern Approaches (Liverpool)
Bidston Moss Viaduct (M53 J1) Maintenance (Merseyside)
Poole Bridge (Poole)
A41 Expressway (Sandwell)
A65 QBC (Leeds)
Silver Jubilee Bridge Maintenance (Halton)
Tyne and Wear Metro
M1 J19 Catthorpe Viaduct Replacement

Nice to see other cities getting money for metro systems... you never know, we might get a comprehensive rapid transit system in my lifetime... nah that's daft!

marmite747

June 22nd, 2010, 08:23 PM

Nice to see other cities getting money for metro systems... you never know, we might get a comprehensive rapid transit system in my lifetime... nah that's daft!

To be fair the Tyne & Wear Metro is a proper metro system.

A Tram is a Tram.
A Metro is an underground rail system.

It's a joke how Birmingham & Manchester call these pieces-o-crap tram schemes 'Metro'

I hate trams. So expensive, so little benefit. Trolleybuses or Heavy Traditional Rail. No point keeping the worst parts of each.

daumal

June 24th, 2010, 01:13 AM

Seasonedbest

June 24th, 2010, 01:31 AM

fruit&nut

June 24th, 2010, 11:54 AM

That Catthorpe intyerchange is unbelievably dangerous and looking at the design, seems to have been done on the cheap way back when it opened.. so many roads feeding onto a figure of eight style loop under a double lane bridge with short slipways from the motorway exits and the usual congestion and HGV activity.

Their plan was to prevent access from the M1 (southbound) in an all new refit but would have the problem of cutting of trade access links. Really, an all new roundabout system and extended slipways are what is really needed to bring this road up to date - certainly from a safetyy point of view..

The current junction is a retrofit.

Originally this was just a meeting of the M6 Southbound and the M1 Northbound. The A14 didn't exist and M1 southbound traffic wanting to access Coventry would use the M69 or the A5 from Crick at J19.

When they completed the A14 link from Catthorpe to Felixstowe in the early 1990's (I worked on part of it) they tried to incorporate what was previously just a local road underbridge into a new M1 junction - including new slips for the M1 north and southbound.

It could barely cope when it opened due to the Catthorpe to Felixtowe route being intentionally a HGV route from the north and midlands which bypassed the M1, M25 and A45. The growing traffic volumes over the last 20 years have just exacerbated the problem.

stourbridgebaggie

June 24th, 2010, 01:45 PM

The Tyne and Wear Metro just seems like a glorified suburban rail system with a couple of underground city centre stations to me. It's pretty nice but I'm not sure it's much of an improvement on what we have in Birmingham. Stick a station between Five Ways and New Street and one between New Street and Duddeston (not that I'm suggesting either of those) and the Cross City Line isn't too dissimilar.

As someone who has used both regularly I can tell you they are not at all similar. The Metro in Newcastle is much cheaper for a start. Also, the trains are much more frequent, at peak times you are looking at every 3 minutes if I recall in Newcastle, the cross city line is nowhere near this. For me, the big difference is when going to get a Metro I never checked what time they were running at, because there was always one there or you would only have to wait 1 or 2 minutes, with the cross city you have to wait a lot longer if you pick the wrong time. Just to clarify, these figures are based on peak travel times, not off peak, which the wait on both systems gets longer.

i_like_concrete

June 24th, 2010, 01:47 PM

To be fair the Tyne & Wear Metro is a proper metro system.

A Tram is a Tram.
A Metro is an underground rail system.

It's a joke how Birmingham & Manchester call these pieces-o-crap tram schemes 'Metro'

I hate trams. So expensive, so little benefit. Trolleybuses or Heavy Traditional Rail. No point keeping the worst parts of each.

Sorry, that's simply an absurd point of view to take, you're ignoring most of the evidence that has been formulated to justify new tram routes for the past 20/30 years.

1) It has been proven that map-makers are far more likely to include tram routes on maps than they a re trolley bus routes, due to the infinitely expandable nature of trolleybus routes they are seen as too complex and too fussy to accommodate on simple maps, tram routes don't have that problem.

2) Investment along tram line is higher than it is along Trolley bus routes, the reasons for this are many, but the main ones are the benefit to the environment brought by new stations, paving and street improvements, that you would be unlikely to get with a simple bus stop. And the fact that tram lines always attract more NEW users than trolley bus schemes.

3) Trolley buses are good for providing a faster, more efficient bus service, but they can not offer the same level of speed or comfort as a tram, the fact is that on roads as congested as Birmingham's, they cannot be put in their own separate lanes, they would have to share the road with other traffic. Tram lines have their own space on road and whole streets dedicated to them, time delays on tram lines are far less than trolley buses.

4) Tram routes can pave the way for a future metro system, I can think of a couple of metro schemes in Europe that started out as above ground tram networks, and over time had some parts of them put in tunnels to help with above ground de-cluttering. Indeed, even parts of Manchester's new Metrolink are being put in cut and cover tunnels.

5) Use of existing infrastructure. Roads are seriously congested, in most cases they cannot be widened and bypasses cannot be built, because the modal shift from private car to bus is incredibly difficult to achieve, reducing the amount of road space available by forcing in bus only lanes, whilst not changing peoples behaviour is a fast way to gridlock. Tram routes are proven to have a much higher achievement rate of modal shift from private cars, and so they do change behaviour, and it is worth handing over road space to them because of it.

6) Interchange with existing railway infrastructure if much better with tram lines. Unsurprisingly, most Light rail schemes in this country tend to utilise old railway lines, in order to reach out into the suburbs, dedicated railway lines are more efficient that guided busways at transporting people from suburbs into towns and cities, guided busways are generally slower and more prone to blockages in the event of breakdowns. Because some rail lines can be utilised to accomodate both trams and trains, direct interchange can be provided between heavy and light rail services within train stations, rather than having to leave the station and find the correct bus stop outside, this makes for a much easier journey. Also, the growing popularity of tram-trains on the continent proves that light rail and heavy rail can be integrated to accommodate medium distance travellers, with rolling stock designed to use heavy rail lines, as well as light rail lines.

Trolley buses have their purpose, offering upgraded bus services, but to try and suggest their limited scope for improvement outweighs the benefits of a tram network is simply to ignore the facts. Trolley buses are one part of the public transport problem, trams are another.

marmite747

June 24th, 2010, 05:30 PM

Sorry, that's simply an absurd point of view to take, you're ignoring most of the evidence that has been formulated to justify new tram routes for the past 20/30 years.

1) It has been proven that map-makers are far more likely to include tram routes on maps than they a re trolley bus routes, due to the infinitely expandable nature of trolleybus routes they are seen as too complex and too fussy to accommodate on simple maps, tram routes don't have that problem.

2) Investment along tram line is higher than it is along Trolley bus routes, the reasons for this are many, but the main ones are the benefit to the environment brought by new stations, paving and street improvements, that you would be unlikely to get with a simple bus stop. And the fact that tram lines always attract more NEW users than trolley bus schemes.

3) Trolley buses are good for providing a faster, more efficient bus service, but they can not offer the same level of speed or comfort as a tram, the fact is that on roads as congested as Birmingham's, they cannot be put in their own separate lanes, they would have to share the road with other traffic. Tram lines have their own space on road and whole streets dedicated to them, time delays on tram lines are far less than trolley buses.

4) Tram routes can pave the way for a future metro system, I can think of a couple of metro schemes in Europe that started out as above ground tram networks, and over time had some parts of them put in tunnels to help with above ground de-cluttering. Indeed, even parts of Manchester's new Metrolink are being put in cut and cover tunnels.

5) Use of existing infrastructure. Roads are seriously congested, in most cases they cannot be widened and bypasses cannot be built, because the modal shift from private car to bus is incredibly difficult to achieve, reducing the amount of road space available by forcing in bus only lanes, whilst not changing peoples behaviour is a fast way to gridlock. Tram routes are proven to have a much higher achievement rate of modal shift from private cars, and so they do change behaviour, and it is worth handing over road space to them because of it.

6) Interchange with existing railway infrastructure if much better with tram lines. Unsurprisingly, most Light rail schemes in this country tend to utilise old railway lines, in order to reach out into the suburbs, dedicated railway lines are more efficient that guided busways at transporting people from suburbs into towns and cities, guided busways are generally slower and more prone to blockages in the event of breakdowns. Because some rail lines can be utilised to accomodate both trams and trains, direct interchange can be provided between heavy and light rail services within train stations, rather than having to leave the station and find the correct bus stop outside, this makes for a much easier journey. Also, the growing popularity of tram-trains on the continent proves that light rail and heavy rail can be integrated to accommodate medium distance travellers, with rolling stock designed to use heavy rail lines, as well as light rail lines.

Trolley buses have their purpose, offering upgraded bus services, but to try and suggest their limited scope for improvement outweighs the benefits of a tram network is simply to ignore the facts. Trolley buses are one part of the public transport problem, trams are another.

Let's be realistic - this country is never going to have a large tram system - the costs are just ludacris.
Edinburgh's 11 mile line has to date cost £600 Million.
£600 Million!

The very idea that Birmingham will one day have an arterial Tram system is complete crap.
With the money they've spent in Ednburgh building this one tram line they could have built 10 trolleybus lanes.

You can go on about Tram capacity all you want. A trolleybus of the same proportions will have just the same capacity.

"Interchange with existing railway infrastructure if much better with tram lines"
Anywhere a tram line can go so can a Bus Lane.

"5) Use of existing infrastructure."
it's much cheaper and more effective to build a dual-bus lane than tram tracks - cheaper and easier to mantain - and could also be used by emergency service vehicles, coaches and buses - meaning far more people using public transport benefit from it.

6) Unsurprisingly, most Light rail schemes in this country tend to utilise old railway lines.
You say this as a positive? Converting Rail to Tram is perhaps the biggest travesty in History. Heavy Rail has far greater capacity and allows freight.
Cycles aren't allowed on trams - they are on trains.
If they had simply re opened the Wednesbury line as heavy rail it would have far greater usage - the Midland Metro has been the biggest flop of all time, with usage well below the estimated figures they plucked from the air.

You know ILC, I really dislike your tone on these forums. You seem to have some sort of opinion that you are far more qualified to make judgement on everything than everyone else and that your opinions are surely the right ones.

i_like_concrete

June 24th, 2010, 05:41 PM

I think you come across in exactly the same way.

We should get married.

Biosonic

June 24th, 2010, 05:47 PM

:lovethem:

i_like_concrete

June 24th, 2010, 05:57 PM

Typhoon2000

June 24th, 2010, 08:59 PM

As someone who has used both regularly I can tell you they are not at all similar. The Metro in Newcastle is much cheaper for a start. Also, the trains are much more frequent, at peak times you are looking at every 3 minutes if I recall in Newcastle, the cross city line is nowhere near this. For me, the big difference is when going to get a Metro I never checked what time they were running at, because there was always one there or you would only have to wait 1 or 2 minutes, with the cross city you have to wait a lot longer if you pick the wrong time. Just to clarify, these figures are based on peak travel times, not off peak, which the wait on both systems gets longer.

Isn't the Tyne and Wear system based on the S-Bahn approach?.. ie use of light rail and mainline/heavy rail... This system cuts cost significantly and it's an approach I'd like to have seen going between town and Harborne using the old Chad Valley Route

Cherguevara

June 24th, 2010, 09:25 PM

Also, you've completely missed the point about the financial aspect.

It's all very well saying Trolley buses are cheaper, but what is your objective when installing them? If you want to improve the ride for existing bus users then fine. But if you want to get people out of their cars and onto public transport then all the trolley bus routes in the world won't be enough. And if achieving a successful modal shift isn't the over arching aim of a piece of public transport infrastructure costing millions upon millions of pounds then it begs the questions whether it should be undertaken at all as a planning priority.

To defend Marmite's point a bit, it's possible to build a tramway that doesn't have a lot of the advantages you mention, and conversely it is possible to design a busway that does have most of the advantages of a tramway. If you design either poorly then you'll end up with a poor scheme. The difference is that it's much more difficult to cut corners on a tram scheme than it is with a bus.

The point about heavy rail having greater capacity is fine in theory, but doesn't work in practice because the costs of running a heavy rail service are so much more that most cities can't afford to run heavy rail at the frequency that they can light rail. As stourbridge says, the T&W Metro works because it can have many more services than the equivalent in Birmingham. When Manchester's Metrolink is finished each route across the city centre will have a service every 2 and half minutes, and almost all branches will have a service of one tram every 6 minutes.

Also the idea that more people want to use heavy rail is false, at least based on the evidence we have. Manchester Metrolink converted the two most heavilly used commuter rail lines in Greater Manchester to Metrolink. By 1994 total daily ridership was 220% of the 1991 figure (last full year prior to Metrolink) on the Altrincham line and 154% of the 1991 figure on the Bury line. This contrasts with an 11% decline across the local heavy rail network over the same period.

Biosonic

June 25th, 2010, 05:54 PM

I would hope we get light rail providing services where heavy rail doesn't go.

That said, should be get all Metro-happy here in Brum they will probably run the next suburban line to the airport which is well connected to the city centre by train. At least it will pick up commuters along the A45.

markmcd1976

June 25th, 2010, 09:42 PM

Splop

June 25th, 2010, 10:09 PM

Also the idea that more people want to use heavy rail is false, at least based on the evidence we have.

Try catching a train at Snow Hill during the rush hour, and then say this passage again afterwards.

I'm sorry, but if the piece of shit Metro was closed down tomorrow, I wouldn't give a damn.

i_like_concrete

June 25th, 2010, 10:16 PM

The airport line doesn't make a lot of sense as it is already served by a decent service from New St. For the next route they'd be better off focusing on areas where public transport is poor, ie Harborne/Quinton/M5...

Not that it really matters as any construction is 15/20 years away anyway.

Very true. But then it's a strange anomaly of cost benefit ratios that means areas already served by public transport are usually the areas that can best justify the expenditure. It takes true vision to step into the abyss of an area un-served by transport unless there are clear figure that prove a good financial case for it. Unfortunately until the Hagley road is completely gridlocked it will never stack up in cost benefit terms as somewhere to send the metro.

I've always suspected they could buy up all those massive front gardens of the buildings fronting the Hagley road and use them to provide the space needed to accomodate a tram line, but I suspect the backlash from nimby's would be so big that the cost would jeopardise the whole project.

And it does matter, because Manchester has been making the claims for Metro extensions from day one, Birmingham seems to exist in a weird limbo where the leadership has an arrogant/overly defensive view that Birmingham can continue to grow and grow without a rapid transit network, instead of genuinely pleading for much needed investment, (I know BCC do the whole the Metro extension would be nice if we could get it, but frankly it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth, what they need to be saying is BIRMINGHAM NEEDS A MAJOR METRO EXTENSION OR WE WON'T BE ABLE TO COMPETE ON A EUROPEAN OR NATIONAL LEVEL). Transport needs to be the highest profile issue on BCC's agenda in the next parliament, a local and national conservative/lib dem administration is probably as good a time as any to be pressing for this.

Cherguevara

June 26th, 2010, 01:43 AM

Try catching a train at Snow Hill during the rush hour, and then say this passage again afterwards.

I'm sorry, but if the piece of shit Metro was closed down tomorrow, I wouldn't give a damn.

How does that even make sense? Just because trains can be busy doesn't mean trams can't be more popular still. The evidence from a UK city of similar size to Birmingham is that a light rail scheme taking over an existing and well used suburban rail line will be used by more passengers after the conversion.

I'm not saying that the Midland Metro is a good transport system, it clearly isn't. But it isn't bad because it's a tram, it's bad because it's incomplete. But it's flaws don't alter the fact that light rail allows greater frequencies and better penetration of the city core than the existing heavy rail network, and as ILC says, that's something Birmingham should be asking for.

Splop

June 26th, 2010, 11:53 AM

But it's flaws don't alter the fact that light rail allows greater frequencies and better penetration of the city core than the existing heavy rail network,

Don't you mean better penetration of the vehicle and/or person it smashes into on a level crossing because it couldn't stop in time ?

They're dangerous, they're expensive, they're cramped and they're useless.

i_like_concrete

June 26th, 2010, 12:30 PM

Well that's possibly the most spurious argument ever. More people die in collisions with cars than trams. People die on train tracks. People die on the underground. There is no reason to attach special significance of danger to trams, all forms of transport have an element of danger attached.

Trains are pretty cramped at peak times too, so are buses, so are roads. At least light rail offers the sort of frequency that means if a tram is too crowded you only need to wait 5 minutes for the next one. With a train you'll be waiting at least three times that.

Most transport infrastructure is expensive, the difference in price per KM of light rail and heavy rail is not that big, and heavy rail comes with the caveat that it cannot run through city centre streets, and so will still need some sort of rapid transit network to get passengers around the city.

Erebus555

June 26th, 2010, 02:50 PM

It's a shame that the funding for the Midland Metro extension to New Street station wasn't lumped in with the funding for the New Street station redevelopment as the two projects are very much linked. We're going to end up seeing a sparkling station with a rather dodgy-looking empty space where a tram stop should be...

markmcd1976

June 26th, 2010, 04:56 PM

Is there any feasible way a city the size of birmingham could fund the construction of the metro itself? Would it be able to make a profit? Is the population dense enough to even justify it?

marmite747

June 26th, 2010, 09:20 PM

Is there any feasible way a city the size of birmingham could fund the construction of the metro itself? Would it be able to make a profit? Is the population dense enough to even justify it?

Very much so!
Look at the City of Porto, Portugal. It's population is slightly less than that of Wolverhampton - yet it has a 68 station, 5 Line metro system which was only constructed in 2002.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Metro_do_Porto_Flexity_Outlook_Eurotram_Trindade.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porto_Metro

It even has a smart card intergrated ticketing system.

Birmingham has 5 times Porto's population and we have to deal with crap.

But like I've said before, we shouldn't complain TOO much.
Sheffield, Leeds, Cardiff, Plymouth and Bristol all have even worse Public Transport systems than Birmingham does.

marmite747

June 26th, 2010, 09:51 PM

Bus News in the South Birmingham area. Green = Improvement, Red = Worsening

• 3 (Birmingham - Solihull) route amended in Solihull (Unknown Exactly)

• 3A (Birmingham - Acocks Green), last two journeys will be curtailed at Robin Hood Island.

• 20 (Birmingham - Rubery) withdrawn, see 49.

• 21 (Birmingham - Bartley Green) withdrawn, see 448 & X64

• 27 (Hawkesley - Kings Heath) extended from Kings Heath to Maypole along the old 69 route.
(Increase from 30 mins to 20 mins on Kings Heath - Maypole section,
Total loss of all service Maypole - Wythall service)
Frequency also reduced at evenings, last buses from West Heath 2017, 2117.
(This is a massive reduction in frequency, used to be every half hour until 2330!)

•29 (Birmingham - Northfield) route is amended (Unknown AOY).

• 49 (Solihull-Great Park) extended to Weoley Castle along old 20 route.
(Increase in frequency from 30 to 20 mins for old 20 section

• 49E (Solihull - Pool Farm) extended to Cotteridge
(Increase in frequency from 20 to 10 mins between Pool Farm and Cotteridge

• 57/57A is withdrawn. Replaced by new service 957

• 58 (Birmingham - Airport) renumbered 58A, frequency reduced

• New service 58 will operate between [] and [[Sheldon]] only.

• [B]61 (Birmingham - Great Park) route amended (Unknown AOY)

• 62 (Birmingham - Rednal) is withdrawn, see X62

• New X62 (Birmingham - Rednal/Rubery) will operate limited Stop between Birmingham-Longbridge
Exact details still unknown, will provide Rednal/Rubery, Longbridge & Northfield with a fast limited stop bus via the Bristol Road
Exact Terminus still unknown, possibly current 62 Terminus or Rubery via Leach Green lane.

• 63 (Birmingham - Frankley) route amended (Unknown AOY)

• New X64 (Birmingham - Bartley Green) will operate via Bristol Road, Weoley Park Road to Weoley Castle and Bartley Green. Limited Stop between Birmingham-Selly Oak
Exact details still unknown, will provide Weoley Castle with a fast limited stop bus via the Bristol Road

• 69/69A (Wythall - Kings Heath) withdrawn, see 27.

• 76 (University - Solihull) route amended (Unknown AOY)

• 84 (Hawkesley-University) rerouted to avoid Meadowsweet Avenue, now via Redditch Road, Branch road, Green Lane, and onto Shannon Road.
(Complete withdrawral from Meadowsweet Avenue leaving only service 35)

• 86 (Woodgate - Rubery) withdrawn. (No Replacement?)

• 448 (West Brom - University) extended to Bartley Green along the old 21 route.
(Reduction in frequency from 15 mins to 30 mins along this former 21 section)

bikmax

June 27th, 2010, 02:37 PM

Typhoon2000

June 27th, 2010, 11:26 PM

although birmingham has a very large population its density mitigates against running a profitable metro system.

And let's not forget about planning policy that requires millions of consultations when Jo Public seem to have an annoyance with an idea thatmight in fact make their life better - or the life better for the greater good... Time is also equal to money....

morestoreysplease

June 28th, 2010, 12:10 AM

I heard Bromsgrove railway station's upgrade has fallen foul of the ConDems cutbacks scythe.

ROYAL BLUE

June 28th, 2010, 01:15 AM

Is there any feasible way a city the size of birmingham could fund the construction of the metro itself? Would it be able to make a profit? Is the population dense enough to even justify it?

You see this is what's bugging me about our Transport problems. Why does everyone expect the Government to step in and pay for everything. Especially when its a private company that will make all the profits running the network.

The railway's were constructed by private companies looking to cash in long term. Surely Centro or Travel West Midlands should be looking at improving the network's, after all, they will stand to make money from fares.

djay

June 28th, 2010, 02:14 AM

i_like_concrete

June 28th, 2010, 12:33 PM

Whilst there are certainly some fund raising powers available at a local level, it would take years to build up a cash reserve large enough to start building a metro extension. What is needed is a loan, and usually the loan would be given by central government and then paid back by the council via the income stream brought by the new infrastructure and or new charges on congestion or parking. If you were to try bringing in congestion charging before there's been a major investment in transport you'll soon find that the party who wins the next local election will that which offers to scrap it, it's a give an take which is why central government loans are so good in getting to infrastructure built before you have to start charging car users who currently make up a massive percentage of the electorate.

Erebus555

June 28th, 2010, 02:29 PM

A problem it seems with the rate at which the Midland Metro is expanding, is that when the time finally comes around to get funding for a new extension, additional funding is also needed for a new fleet of trams. This just bumps up the cost much much higher.

Although, the cost to carry the Midland Metro just from Snow Hill station to New Street station is insane...

daumal

June 28th, 2010, 07:16 PM

You see this is what's bugging me about our Transport problems. Why does everyone expect the Government to step in and pay for everything. Especially when its a private company that will make all the profits running the network.

The railway's were constructed by private companies looking to cash in long term. Surely Centro or Travel West Midlands should be looking at improving the network's, after all, they will stand to make money from fares.

I think public transport in a region like the West Midlands is too important to be left to profit-making companies. To me the obvious solution is to run the system as it is in London, with Centro (or someone similar) deciding the routes and frequencies and then inviting tenders for each individual line. This increases competition by taking away the huge investment that would be necessary to take on NEWM, allows easier cross-subsidy for important but loss-making services (like night buses would be, at least to start with) and keeps the profits with whoever's doing the investment and making the plans. Through- and multimodal-ticketing would be easier to put into place and you'd get further investment and prices hopefully geared towards encouraging users rather than getting the most money possible out of those who have no choice but to use your services. In every city I've lived in liberalisation of bus services has simply handed an effective monopoly to one of the large transport companies.

Public transport, like pavements and roads, is a vitally important piece of an urban area's infrastructure. It should be designed to get workers and revellers from where they live to where they work or play and thus give businesses an effective framework around which to build investment in a city. It should be as cheap as possible in order to give citizens more money to spend on the items and services which private companies are there to provide.

Apart from anything else it would just make sense to allow public transport providers to work as closely as possible with planners and the regeneration department. I'm amazed that masterplans for places like Eastside, the future Southside and Icknield Port (to name but a few) don't include routes kept clear for possible future Metro extensions or bus lanes. Elements of planning permission like insisting on the viaduct with the Snowhill development should become the norm, providing corridors through all new developments so that the West Midlands is ready to act should funding become available in the future.

djay

June 28th, 2010, 08:31 PM

Apart from anything else it would just make sense to allow public transport providers to work as closely as possible with planners and the regeneration department. I'm amazed that masterplans for places like Eastside, the future Southside and Icknield Port (to name but a few) don't include routes kept clear for possible future Metro extensions or bus lanes. Elements of planning permission like insisting on the viaduct with the Snowhill development should become the norm, providing corridors through all new developments so that the West Midlands is ready to act should funding become available in the future.

this my friend is a concept called smart growth, not really seen as being better than the idea of a compact city

daumal

June 28th, 2010, 09:20 PM

this my friend is a concept called smart growth, not really seen as being better than the idea of a compact city

You'll have to forgive me because I'm not familiar with the concepts. But going by what they seem to be it seems that the ideal of a compact city fails because Birmingham isn't one, and the West Midlands is even less so. You can look to develop the city in that way but for the next few decades you have to deal with what you've got.

Even just talking about the city centre, if the city council want to extend the city core to the middle ring road (as outlined in the Big City Plan) then the Metro, or at least a better bus service, must be key - Five Ways to Millennium Point, say, is quite a walk. It seems to me that if you build a Metro corridor through the Southside area when it's being designed then that's going to make any future Metro or trolleybus a hell of a lot easier and cheaper to build - as an added bonus it'll then be on an off-road route and thus quicker and more reliable. And if Birmingham has any pretensions at all of trying to sustain a core that size and be seen as a world city, then it's going to have to happen eventually. I'm no civil engineer, but couldn't they cut and cover a Metro-sized tunnel before building on top of it and then seal it off until it needs to be used?

Sorry if I've misunderstood the concepts there - more research is probably key if so!

marmite747

June 28th, 2010, 10:12 PM

You'll have to forgive me because I'm not familiar with the concepts. But going by what they seem to be it seems that the ideal of a compact city fails because Birmingham isn't one, and the West Midlands is even less so. You can look to develop the city in that way but for the next few decades you have to deal with what you've got.

Even just talking about the city centre, if the city council want to extend the city core to the middle ring road (as outlined in the Big City Plan) then the Metro, or at least a better bus service, must be key - Five Ways to Millennium Point, say, is quite a walk. It seems to me that if you build a Metro corridor through the Southside area when it's being designed then that's going to make any future Metro or trolleybus a hell of a lot easier and cheaper to build - as an added bonus it'll then be on an off-road route and thus quicker and more reliable. And if Birmingham has any pretensions at all of trying to sustain a core that size and be seen as a world city, then it's going to have to happen eventually. I'm no civil engineer, but couldn't they cut and cover a Metro-sized tunnel before building on top of it and then seal it off until it needs to be used?

Sorry if I've misunderstood the concepts there - more research is probably key if so!

No you're totally right.
The problem I have with trams is onroad they're useless stuck in traffic.
Houston have a wonderful system, it runs inbetween buildings on dedicated tracks, sometimes on top of little canals :) it's wonderful.
Southside already has a wonderful grid layout. They should make Hurst St a bus only lane (no other traffic) and eventually sent trams down Hill St and Hurst St.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:METRORail_7.jpg

marmite747

June 28th, 2010, 10:14 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:METRORail_7.jpg

The system in question.

feltip

June 29th, 2010, 11:09 PM

Steam to return to Birmingham New Street for the first time in over 40 years

June 1, 2010 | News
On July 17th 6201 Princess Elizabeth will haul a Birmingham New Street to London Euston steam special and become the first steam locomotive to haul a train from New Street in over 40 years.

The day will also feature the first LMS Princess to work right up to Euston’s buffer stops since the end of steam. The Midlander will run Birmingham New Street to London Euston and return to Tyseley via Nuneaton.

http://rail-news.com/2010/06/01/steam-to-return-to-birmingham-new-street-for-the-first-time-in-over-40-years/

rtcw :)

July 3rd, 2010, 04:35 PM

Bus News in the South Birmingham area.
• 57/57A is withdrawn. Replaced by new service 957

• 58 (Birmingham - Airport) renumbered 58A, frequency reduced

• New service 58 will operate between [[Birmingham]] and [[Sheldon]] only.

Where did you get info from this? Is it reliable?

And why was 57/57A withdrawn? It was popular route I used it yesterday, almost full.

And any route changes with 957? Compared to 5757A?

I really don't see any reason in this. All Coventry road routes ARE popular and ALWAYS almost full. :@

rtcw :)

July 3rd, 2010, 04:54 PM

I just found this, I don't where information you're getting from. Ones from National express west midlands website has more information than you're giving us.

Link is: http://www.networkwestmidlands.com/web/FILES/25-07-2010.pdf

Coventry road bus routes:

58 Nat Express WM Birmingham - Sheldon via Coventry Road - Journeys terminate at Arden Oak bus terminus - Timetable Amended

58A Nat Express WM Birmingham - Birmingham Airport via Coventry Road - Early morning journeys operate to/from Birmingham International Airport - Timetable amended

60 Nat Express WM Cranes Park - Birmingham via Coventry Road - Timetable amended to improve reliability

900 Nat Express WM Birmingham - Coventry via Sheldon,Airport,Meriden - No longer serves Parkhill Drive, service C82 will serve Parkhill Drive from 26 July 2010 - Timetable and stopping points amended

957 Nat Express WM Birmingham - Solihull via Yardley - New service replacing withdrawn 57 and 57A, rerouted via A45 Small Heath Highway - Limited stop until The Wheatsheaf, Sheldon then all stops to Solihull

958 Nat Express WM Birmingham - Birmingham Airport via Yardley - Service withdrawn

morestoreysplease

July 4th, 2010, 04:42 PM

Stories like this have a bearing on our city's transport funds:-

I heard on Radio 5Live that 25million has been found to spend on a cable-car to cross the Thames at Greenwich and should be ready in time for the 2012 Olympics. I thought ludicrous schemes were to be dropped by this new Government? There are tunnels under the Thames in Greenwich, so why waste so much money on something like this?

Tim86

July 4th, 2010, 07:29 PM

ReissOmari

July 4th, 2010, 11:11 PM

Jumped on the 21 today, takes you down Selly Oak new road now, practically empty and theres a set of pedestrians crossings every few yards, dont know why nobodys walking down there

Telfordboy

July 5th, 2010, 05:39 PM

Its not Birmingham specific but I hope the government takes this advice but I don't hold out much hope...

Transport group says: choose smarter cuts not easy cuts
15 June 2010

Big hikes in rail fares, more potholes and huge cuts in bus services could be the result of cuts in transport budgets, according to the campaign group Campaign for Better Transport.

In the first in-depth look at the implications for transport of the Government’s deficit reduction programme, Campaign for Better Transport’s “Smarter Cuts” report sets out choices in transport spending.

The group’s Executive Director Stephen Joseph said: “Our research shows that on transport spending the Government has a choice: it can go for easy cuts, taking money out of all budgets, upping fares and giving priority to big roads. Or it can go for smarter cuts which protect the spending that helps the economy, meets carbon and environmental targets and strengthens communities.”

The report offers an alternative scenario giving priority to funding local public transport, cycling and maintaining existing roads, paid for by canceling some large road building projects. It also sets out new approaches which would save money by integrating transport better with other services. But the report says that if the Government just follows the line of least resistance:

Buses could be decimated: just cutting the Government’s Bus Service Operator Grant would result in 7% less services, 6.5% fares increases; and 94m miles less of supported services
Train fares could rise by 33% in this Parliament if the fares were to increase by RPI+3%
Overcrowding would increase without extra carriages
Buses: wait and wait... and then none come along

“There is a real danger that buses will become extinct outside the centres of cities and towns, as funding for them will be under threat. Bus cuts and fares rises will be below the radar, happening at a local level around the country, but they will have a huge impact on the poorest people and communities, and act as a barrier for people to get access to employment, training and public services,” said Joseph.

Road maintenance at crossroads

“There is a choice to be made between properly maintaining the roads we have and building big new ones. Last winter showed the consequences of skimping on maintenance. Our evidence shows that road building projects are poor value for money, and subject to big cost overruns, and poor forecasting and modelling. They are also very expensive, and there are low cost alternatives to many of the schemes currently proposed. Maintaining the roads we have, and making better use of them, should be the priority,” he said.

Trains: efficiency or overcrowding?

“For trains, we should protect and enhance existing services, and fund local improvements that make better use of existing lines, while seeking out genuine efficiency savings, such as cutting out transaction costs between parts of the industry. The danger is that if significant cuts are made in the wrong places, there will be increased overcrowding, fares rises and reduced or slower services,” he said.

The report also suggests:

Joining transport up to other Government decisions and services, with a “transport test” for all new policies and service changes
Linking transport and planning so as to reduce car dependence and promote alternatives to travel
Reviewing the assessment methods for transport projects, with more emphasis on climate change and health and less on very small log term time savings
Investigating alternative sources of funding for transport, such as parking charges, developer contributions and business rates
Ensuring that funding for the high speed line promised by the Government is separate from and extra to the transport budget, if major further cuts are to be avoided.
Clarifying how the Government’s commitment to localism and devolution should apply to transport, where many journeys and operations cross council boundaries
Mr Joseph concluded: “We think the Government can achieve 25% cuts in transport spending, but only if it does things differently and thinks about transport with other policies and funding. We are optimistic about what can be done with smaller amounts of money carefully invested – we think that choosing the right transport priorities can help the Government revive the economy, improve health, strengthen communities and be, in the Prime Minister’s words, “the greenest Government ever”.

http://www.bettertransport.org.uk/media/june-14-smarter-cuts

morestoreysplease

July 6th, 2010, 01:52 AM

Jumped on the 21 today, takes you down Selly Oak new road now, practically empty and theres a set of pedestrians crossings every few yards, dont know why nobodys walking down there

Have you seen how wide the road is?? So much tarmac for just 2 lanes when 4 could fit - ridiculous!! They did some better management on Priory Road in Edgbaston where they moved the dividing line over and created 2 lanes one way and 1 in the opposite direction for better flow. They should do the same for Pershore Road between Pebble Mill and Tally Ho - easily enough room for 2 lanes and 1 lane instead of 2 really wide lanes. Use the tarmac to its fullness!!

Typhoon2000

July 6th, 2010, 04:15 AM

Have you seen how wide the road is?? So much tarmac for just 2 lanes when 4 could fit - ridiculous!! They did some better management on Priory Road in Edgbaston where they moved the dividing line over and created 2 lanes one way and 1 in the opposite direction for better flow. They should do the same for Pershore Road between Pebble Mill and Tally Ho - easily enough room for 2 lanes and 1 lane instead of 2 really wide lanes. Use the tarmac to its fullness!!

It's okay, they've done what I thought they would have done and future proofed it. When traffic volumes start to become a major problem, certainly towards the ends of each road, they can expand it it for greater capacity later.

morestoreysplease

July 6th, 2010, 04:10 PM

Engels

July 7th, 2010, 03:10 PM

Expansion isn't what's required but better use of tarmac for the entire length Typhoon and not just the "ends". I swear the lanes are 2-car widths each. If safety is a concern then they could easily move the dividng line over to have 1 lane heading downhill with 2 lanes coming up towards Harborne Lane.

The design capacity of the two main junctions here will have a far greater impact on the overall capacity of the bypass than just making the road dual carriageway would have. Junctions are the biggest constraint on traffic flow and unless these junctions were grade separated then it is unlikely that simply dualing the whole stretch of road would significantly improve the overall capacity. Grade separation is hugely expensive, takes a massive amount of land up and is generally inappropriate from an urban design point of view. Although I can imagine a variety of scenarios were modelled a dual carriage way option including the required size/types of junctions to make it beneficial would have cost far more in terms of scheme costs and social/environmental disbenefits.

morestoreysplease

July 8th, 2010, 11:47 PM

The road doesn't have to be a dual-carriageway (with central reservation) - just a 4-lane road as per the Bristol Road, Pershore Road etc. But I do agree it's the junctions that affect traffic flow although getting double the amount of traffic in the same distance is paramount in cities.

Engels

July 9th, 2010, 12:43 AM

was being lazy and using the term dual carriageway to mean any 2x2 lanes road with or without a central reserve - very few people know the difference, I wouldn't want to see 4 x 2.5m lanes as these rarely ever give any benefit over a wide single carriageway each way except on the approaches to junctions.

i_like_concrete

July 12th, 2010, 05:24 PM

Moor St Station update.

Blurry pictures, moving train.

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w314/concretelover/zz001.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w314/concretelover/zz002.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w314/concretelover/zz003.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w314/concretelover/zz004.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w314/concretelover/zz005.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w314/concretelover/zz007.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w314/concretelover/zz008-1.jpg

woodhousen

July 12th, 2010, 09:21 PM

FINALY!!!!!!!!

morestoreysplease

July 13th, 2010, 12:13 AM

It's only been 6 years since they refurbed this station!!

i_like_concrete

July 13th, 2010, 12:21 AM

They didn't do any work to the actual terminating platforms though, just the buildings around them.

woodhousen

July 13th, 2010, 01:17 AM

yes they did, they totally resurfaced them as far as im aware, and that was also when they put the steam engine in (is that staying?)

smysticed

July 13th, 2010, 01:48 AM

Yes, the steam engine is on platform 5, and they are working on platforms 3 and 4, so it should be staying as far as I can tell.

rtcw :)

July 13th, 2010, 09:13 PM

ReissOmari

July 13th, 2010, 09:35 PM

^^ The X51 use them now too

Typhoon2000

July 14th, 2010, 12:36 AM

Now most of 11A/C outer circle route have now been equipped with smart card reader. Coventry road bus routes have bus stops changed to remove 958 and add 957 and change timetable papers. It isn't fully finished.

Only time before the card readers are installed properly on all the route 9 buses and possibly 126. I must say as a designer/engineer I'm not impressed with the layout on this. Ergonomically, it seems to have been put together by Stevey Wonder after a few pints of lager.

Ideally, it should just have the tag disc on the machine itself, long with the ticket dispenser.. this would mean that should there be a problem, the driver would not have to open his door and hold everyone up or put himself in danger. Passengers who are elderly may have trouble finding or reaching it too.

The London buses system is better as convienently, you see the bright yellow tag disc in front of you and know where to tap the RFID card. It might seem pedantic, but in a world where time and speed is critical, either in human to machine interaction, departure/arrival times etc etc, a well thought out layout makes a big difference - especially when picking up passengers on high volume routes.

I notice that on the Claribel buses (95, chelmsly wood etc), you actually have to reach into the cab to tap the tag disc - that's terrible ergonomic design.

Having said all this, it's good that Birmingham has moved with the times. The control system for this looks really impressive and quite easy to operate for the drivers- I just wish that Centro had much more regulatory clout to push ALL bus companies to use them within the West Midlands area.

Typhoon2000

July 14th, 2010, 12:40 AM

Dammit.. has anyone seen the number for the Hagley Road Route consultation?.. I want to get my dime's worth in about Fiveways roundabout and the possible use of a bus priority TCS, properly enforced bus lanes, and a bus lane introduced from the roundabout just past Spearmint Rhinos. The present situation with the buses going under the tunnel is not really ideal and another solution is needed really. At least something is being looked into.

i_like_concrete

July 14th, 2010, 12:49 AM

Typhoon2000

July 14th, 2010, 01:14 AM

I'd rather the buses continue using the underpass though, even with bus priority there are just too many cars using that roundabout at peak hours to make it work, going through the underpass has literally made 126 journeys a billion times more bearable!

It would be cool if the two lay-bys in the underpass could be utilised as bus stops, with lifts and escalators down from the five ways island park on one side and the subway leading to Tescos on the other. Too costly though, and probably against health and safety regulations to have buses stopping down there, though if they had ever managed to get the tram line to five ways i always hope they'd have stopped traffic from using the underpass and converted it to a subsurface station. What a dream eh, imagine, it could've been a portal for an underground metro service serving the Hagley road corridor! Too high a hope.

I'm not entirely sure it wouldn't. The TCS could function to allow the next set off the roundabout whilst the lights closest to the bus route could hold the traffic back, effectively alowing a straight through path on to, and off of the roundabount. TCS is a bit iffy on smaller roundabouts,but on ones this size they can be highly effective, especially when programmed correctly for different types of traffic.

Peak times it would make little difference - but the key point here is that at present, there is no bus lane between Fiveways and that set of traffic lights, and no matter which route you go, it's always blocked at those times. At any other time, there is usually no traffic to warrant going through the underpass anyway.

Another point is one of enforcement and I get really annoyed that little is done to keep selfish drivers out of the bus lanes. The problems with getting up to the Fiveways roundabout from Broad street is simply due to the fact that drivers hog the bus lane as well as the general lane, either to do a left turn or simply to hit Calthorpe Road.

A more radical plan would be to completely block access Calthorpe Road for cars, up until the turning loop closest to the Marriot, and send them all down the underpass and make a left turn at the lights, fully sequenced with those lights down by the church.

In order to prevent the potential for rat runs, St James road, Frederick Road and George Road, should become one-way out on the the ring road - the reason why I'd keep the loop available for car traffic outside the Marriot.

marmite747

July 14th, 2010, 01:50 AM

The Smart Card Readers are horrendous. You have to really press the card down and leave it there until the bleep, in London a slight touch is all it needs. Who ever designed these needs to be Hanged. Absolute madness.

marmite747

July 14th, 2010, 01:55 AM

Bristol Road buses all Change on the 25th July.

New X62 & X64 will run limited stop between Birmingham and Selly Oak and will use Suffolk St Queensway, then turn off past the Mailbox and under onto Navigation St, Up Hill St and terminate at the Town Hall. First Buses to go right past the Mailbox I think? Wonder if they'll be a stop right outside? I think this'll be a test to see if patronage is good enough before they move the 61 & 63 to this route as well.

27 bus is also having it's evening frequency hacked away. Last full length bus will be 8pm, as opposed to 11.30pm. Totally unjustified - I know people who rely on the night bus.

Furthermore, discovered a hole in Centro's tickets.

There is a 2 week nNetwork Off-Peak ticket available for £18. It allows unlimited Bus & Metro usage on all operators, and Train usage between 9.30-15.30 and after 18:00.

Even if you only use Buses, two of them cost £36 (for 4 weeks) considerably cheaper than even the National Express only 4-week bus pass (£44).

So, not only would 2 of those tickets be cheaper, you get the added bonus of being able to use ALL bus operators, and Metro, as well as Off-Peak rail transport! No wonder they don't advertize it very much!

feltip

July 17th, 2010, 01:54 AM

Moor Street link to pull in extra million journeys
Jul 15 2010 by Jon Griffin, Birmingham Mail

MORE than one million extra rail journeys will be undertaken between the Midlands and London within just four years thanks to the £250 million upgrade of Moor Street to Marylebone.

And the economic spin-offs from the huge outlay by Chiltern Railways could transform the likes of Solihull, Leamington Spa and other parts of the Midlands, according to the rail company.

Chiltern Railways marketing director Thomas Ableman said faster journey times to the capital from Moor Street to London would prove a major shot in the arm for the West Midlands economy.

“We hope to see significant economic growth in many areas because of this. Solihull, for example, will have an inter-city connection to Central London.

“In terms of additional journeys, we expect to be generating an additional one million journeys per year from the West Midlands by 2014.

“Many of these will be taken directly from the M42 and M40, which we run parallel from Birmingham all the way to London.
...

The huge upgrade of the Moor Street line will also see the historic Birmingham station benefit from a £13 million makeover, with new platforms, a doubling of capacity and new ticketing technology.

Mr Ableman said the Moor Street project would create jobs for up to 500 workers involved in design, management and construction.

The £250 million investment will provide Birmingham with a second major station terminal, creating the first new rail link from the capital to any major British city for over 100 years.

Journey times to London on the Chiltern line will be cut by a fifth to one hour 40 minutes.
...

http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-stories/2010/07/15/moor-street-link-to-pull-in-extra-million-journeys-97319-26852147/

rtcw :)

July 17th, 2010, 12:06 PM

Why didn't Birmingham get something like Tube underground in London? Is it because of rocks in soil are too hard or something?

i_like_concrete

July 17th, 2010, 01:30 PM

Why didn't Birmingham get something like Tube underground in London? Is it because of rocks in soil are too hard or something?

Expense. And there's never really been the political will for it.

Tunnelling is perfectly possible in Brum, there are plenty of them under the city streets.

Splop

July 17th, 2010, 02:29 PM

“We hope to see significant economic growth in many areas because of this. Solihull, for example, will have an inter-city connection to Central London."

Sounds fantastic, but I would imagine the current station layout at Solihull would have to be upgraded to accomodate the extra traffic.

Extra buses wouldn't go amiss either.

morestoreysplease

July 18th, 2010, 01:43 AM

This is from the Jon Griffin piece in the Mail. What he is saying (and it isn't explained very well) is that when Moor St gets its termini platforms the Chiltern Line can have a proper Marylebone to Moor St service, calling at Solihull etc. I think he's creating a story out of nothing really.

rtcw :)

July 19th, 2010, 09:37 PM

I've got some couple questions for this forum:

When will NXWM's east Birmingham review take place? And what does "Commercial journeys withdrawn by
operator"? Does it mean it will be replaced by other operator or something? Sorry for my bad English.
And I saw some 590A/C bus stop and I cannot find it on website nor I have heard anything about this route. What has happened to this route?

MattN

July 20th, 2010, 04:24 AM

rtcw :)

July 20th, 2010, 06:07 PM

Commercial journeys withdrawn by operator will mean that it is a route which is partly publicly funded, and partly run on a commercial basis by the operator. Some or all of the commercial journeys will have been axed whilst the funded journeys will remain. Unless there is any other information saying that another operator will take those journeys on it's safe to say that one hasn't.

I hope other operator jumps in. It's route I mainly use to get around other than going to city centre first. It isn't NXWM either.
From what I remember, this route was ran by TWM (NXWM now) now they stopped running it and moved to other operator. It seems very unlikely that NXWM will get this route back. And, there's no other operator specified.
:(

feltip

July 23rd, 2010, 12:05 AM

Planning app related to Sutton Coldfield Rail station lifts.

2010/03920/PA

Sutton Coldfield Railway Station Railway Road Sutton Coldfield B73 6AY

Prior approval application to install two external glazed lifts and repair/reconfigure footbridge

JonW67

July 26th, 2010, 01:21 PM

Flicking through Castle Vale News at the weekend, there was a report about the number 68 north circular bus service being taken off completely in August.

The 71 route through Castle Vale is to be alterered slightly to pick up some of the route there. The loss of the 68 is a bit of a blow for a lot of people I know who use it and there will no longer be a link to the Fort Shopping Centre either which seems a bit daft.

ReissOmari

July 26th, 2010, 02:45 PM

The 68 bus route is a joke anyway

JonW67

July 26th, 2010, 03:23 PM

The 68 bus route is a joke anyway

I agree with you to a certain extent, almost always late when I'm ever waiting for one. I suppose the length of the route makes it more prone to being delayed.

However, for my pensioner mom, it's handy for the Fort Shopping Centre and for getting to Good Hope for her regular appointments.

I just hope that the amended 71 route will be a benefit to her when the 68 has gone.

morestoreysplease

July 26th, 2010, 09:17 PM

I can't believe the Fort isn't served by any buses from town. The Heartlands Spine Road should have a limited stop route from BHX to town calling at Fort and Star City.

markmcd1976

July 26th, 2010, 11:18 PM

You'd think the landlords might have even subsidised a regular service.

rtcw :)

July 26th, 2010, 11:32 PM

I can't believe the Fort isn't served by any buses from town. The Heartlands Spine Road should have a limited stop route from BHX to town calling at Fort and Star City.

Exactly what I'm thinking of. Personally I think there should be new bus route where it follows 26 route skipping through Alum Rock by using Washwood Heath road till Bromford road where it will go to Fort then it will go to Star City and terminating at there.

daumal

July 27th, 2010, 12:01 AM

Well hopefully once the terminating platforms at Moor Street are finished the Camp Hill Chords can be completed and there'll be some movement of it getting a station on the line to Tamworth.

The Fort not having a (normal) bus service is surprising, though, considering that the business case to Tamworth pretty much hinges on there being a huge number of people using the potential Fort Parkway station. I see hardly anyone using that hourly service they have going from the city centre, but then it does seem to take a long time.

Erebus555

July 27th, 2010, 01:39 AM

There is a bus service to Fort Dunlop, isn't there? I remember seeing a black double decker with Fort Dunlop written on it in town quite often.... Looks to be operated by Urban Splash.

ReissOmari

July 27th, 2010, 11:36 AM

Black and Orange, but its not TWM

rtcw :)

July 27th, 2010, 12:27 PM

There is a bus service to Fort Dunlop, isn't there? I remember seeing a black double decker with Fort Dunlop written on it in town quite often.... Looks to be operated by Urban Splash.

AMPM operates Fort Dunlop bus service.

marmite747

July 27th, 2010, 12:41 PM

I don't know much about the 68 I'm afraid, but am I right in thinking it's a circular bus route?
Circular routes are terrible time keepers.

rtcw :)

July 27th, 2010, 12:52 PM

I don't know much about the 68 I'm afraid, but am I right in thinking it's a circular bus route?
Circular routes are terrible time keepers.

It is.
8A/C are worst time keepers even 11A/C are better at it.

Typhoon2000

July 27th, 2010, 01:53 PM

It is.
8A/C are worst time keepers even 11A/C are better at it.

Totally agree with this, and even then, the 11 routes seems to fill in with enough buses to make sure that they're not overcrowded.. riding on the 8 is sometimes awful!

rtcw :)

July 28th, 2010, 03:21 PM

Totally agree with this, and even then, the 11 routes seems to fill in with enough buses to make sure that they're not overcrowded.. riding on the 8 is sometimes awful!

I regularly ride on 8A/C on Sundays. Frequency is 2 buses per hours which makes it 1 bus every 30 minutes. One day I went on 8C and I was on about halfway where bus broke down so I had to get out and wait 30 minutes for another bus. I arrived at place late. Should they get another replacement bus?

hoody

July 28th, 2010, 08:56 PM

More card readers on the 28A. Not the best looking thing, but could be worse.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/martynahood/f3a079fe.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/martynahood/76abf9f1.jpg

Excuse the quality. It's not Parkinsons just a very rough Perry Common Road.

ReissOmari

July 28th, 2010, 10:58 PM

feltip

July 28th, 2010, 11:08 PM

They're not the readers Hoody, they're the preparation for them.

Readers go alongside new ticket machines for drivers.

Grabbed some snaps of the new touch in pads and the new ticket computer for the driver the other day on the No.50

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b141/Feltip/Birmingham%20UK/BhamSmartCard.jpg

hoody

July 28th, 2010, 11:47 PM

Oh whoops. The red thing looks better.

djay

July 29th, 2010, 11:03 AM

quick comparison

ours
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b141/Feltip/Birmingham%20UK/BhamSmartCard.jpg

London
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Fw4BZ6O1Rrw/S0aVpJ4dyfI/AAAAAAAAFE0/_G0X3tahaqI/s800/london+oyster+card+yellow+card+reader.JPG

and

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/corporate/projectsandschemes/communityandeducation/safetyandcitizenship/images/photo/bus-2-2.jpg

rtcw :)

July 29th, 2010, 12:58 PM

^^ Preparing for card readers, National Express really need to replace all 28 buses, there all old and struggle to get up Dyas Road hill, its a major bus route from North to East Birmingham and really needs sorting out to give the passengers the best ride!

NXWM also really needs to change timetable on 28 route to Small Heath once 24 gets phased out so it can cover some of 24 route timetable. Currently NXWM only runs 28 to Small Heath when it is evening in Monday - Saturday and whole day on Sunday.

According to most of bus news, It looks like Centro is cutting down bus routes in south east bus routes. I cannot see any reason for it as it is always full.

Brummyboy92

July 29th, 2010, 03:38 PM

The Birmingham ones look much better than the London ones.

ReissOmari

July 29th, 2010, 05:13 PM

NXWM also really needs to change timetable on 28 route to Small Heath once 24 gets phased out so it can cover some of 24 route timetable. Currently NXWM only runs 28 to Small Heath when it is evening in Monday - Saturday and whole day on Sunday.

According to most of bus news, It looks like Centro is cutting down bus routes in south east bus routes. I cannot see any reason for it as it is always full.

Yea, for such a popular bus route, and for the main areas it serves the timetables are really bad, i used to get this bus to college everyday, and there always used to be about 3 at the same time coming down, if u miss them you have to wait around an hour!

^^ Preparing for card readers, National Express really need to replace all 28 buses, there all old and struggle to get up Dyas Road hill, its a major bus route from North to East Birmingham and really needs sorting out to give the passengers the best ride!

I said that yesterday, and i went to catch a bus into town and saw 2 of these, its like National Express we're watching my messages! Hopefully there putting all these out now, jumped on an older 28 today and it wasn't prepared for the cards, so maybe its a sign!?

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4086/4841077134_b10c7dcd23_b.jpg

rtcw :)

July 29th, 2010, 08:46 PM

I started to seeing 28s with new livery and new smart card fitted. I think it's on new livery only.

Typhoon2000

July 30th, 2010, 06:18 AM

The Birmingham ones look much better than the London ones.

I'd have to disagree here - ergonomically, in terms of placement they are awful, and despite being horribly bulbous, they aren't immediately obvious. On some buses, the card reader has been placed inside the driver's cab (Claribel).

By other accounts the reader isn't that sensitive either so you have to hang around to get it to read the card. Sorry guys, but 1-0 to London on this one. (or even Helsinki)

The design of the bright yellow Oyster disc is text book in terms of concise aesthetic simplicity and ergonomics and to my mind no other system in the UK has been able to better it - yet.

The most annoying thing is that bus operators are allowed to choose whether they want to implement it or not, so you still have to carry around a photo ID on top of this new card, that's silly!

Victorian

July 31st, 2010, 12:51 AM

Having recently returned from my first visit to Birmingham in nearly two years, I have a comment to make about Birmingham transport from a visitor’s point of view. Whenever I arrive in a new city I always look first for a map of an underground metro, a heavy rail (S-bahn) network, or LRT (trams and the like). This makes getting around a city centre so much easier --- one knows exactly where the stations and stops are and where to change lines if necessary. Unfortunately, apart from the Midland Metro tram serving Snow Hill, St. Paul’s and Jewellery Quarter there are no such transportation systems in central Birmingham, just a bewildering stream of buses with strange numbers and distant destinations indicated. This inadequacy was brought home to me when I found myself on a rainy day at the new coach station in Digbeth wanting to return to my hotel near Five Ways on Broad Street. My options were twofold; either take a taxi, or walk and risk getting soaked. I had no idea which, if any of the numerous buses passing by would be helpful, and the one-way streets made it difficult to know where they were heading. On my fairly long walk back to the hotel I did try one bus whose displayed destination was west of the city, but the driver told me he didn’t go along Broad Street. If I, as someone who knows Birmingham’s geography quite well, found negotiating the local bus network quite confusing, I wonder what a stranger to the city, arriving at the coach station for example, would make of the public transportation on offer.

When a much smaller city like Toulouse in France can open a new 15 km underground metro line three years ago to complement a 12.5 km underground metro already in use for more than 10 years, and can now be constructing a brand new 10.5 km tramway, one wonders why such infrastructure is always deemed too expensive for cities in the UK. It is a question of priorities I suppose. Mike Whitby loves to claim that Birmingham is a ‘world-class’ city but until it sorts out its public transportation I’m afraid it still has a long way to go.

Engels

July 31st, 2010, 02:15 AM

daumal

July 31st, 2010, 03:08 AM

While all that comment is well and good - and true... the taxi from Digbeth to Five Ways would have cost you a fiver (£5).

That's a lot cheaper than every other city i have visited in Europe.- it's all relative

Well, it depends when you're taking it. A black cab will cost you a lot more than that on a Friday or Saturday night or when there's a lot of traffic. And if you're going to Kings Heath or Selly Oak or further out then it'll be more still.

The key point, I feel, is about Birmingham being a 'global' or 'world-class' city. A decent integrated public transport system is a key part of a city - without one it falls beneath Strasbourg, Toulouse or Lille (to name just three cities considerably smaller than Birmingham in France). A taxi might cost you a lot in one of those cities, but that's because there's little use for them.

My opinion is that without a mass transit system Birmingham can never be a world class city. And instead of skimming over this point, our city council should be creating a case for one and petitioning Parliament over and over again for either the funds to build one or the ability to raise money locally.

Regardless of anything else: can you name one other 'global city' in which 90% of the journeys on public transport are taken by bus?

WirlieG

July 31st, 2010, 08:53 AM

Money can be raised locally.

£1.5bn is being raised by the Greater Manchester Transport Fund locally which is the reason that all the works are confirmed and the local authorities are determining which schemes they are prioritising to proceed with as money from Whitehall has dried up.

markmcd1976

July 31st, 2010, 09:28 AM

If we do get a Mayor then this should be the very first thing he does.

Sort out a mass transit system that connects the City's key locations; airports, major rail stations, universities, sports stadiums.

Look at European examples of how this is done, without it costing the world or taking 20years to complete.

blahblah

July 31st, 2010, 09:58 AM

WirlieG

July 31st, 2010, 10:03 AM

^^

David Cameron's promise to allow England's 12 largest cities to hold referendums on having our own version of Boris was one of the main reasons why I became a member!

It's working, and working well in London. Both under Ken & Boris!

But they are not giving us referendums on getting the same as Boris.

We are going to be forced to have a mayor, without referendum, that will only represent small parts of the true cities and will not have the same powers as Boris but rather the same powers as Angus the Monkey and all the other pointless mayors that have sprung up since 2000.

If they were offering REAL devolution of power covering the real cities then fair enough, but to force mayors who will be no more of the chair of the councils executive and only covering small parts of the city is an utter waste and will lead to more divide and conquor from London rather than delivering any great advances.

EDIT - http://blogs.menmedia.co.uk/politics/2010/07/men-column-a-radical-devolution-package/ sums it up perfectly. Why not alllow much greater powers be devolved to existing structures then give the population the chance to vote on a mayor to take those devolved powers. As is it, no powers are being devolved here.

Soul_13

July 31st, 2010, 10:07 AM

I don't get this "referendum for everything" style of governing. It's tested in the US with poor results (California anyone). There's a newly elected government in this god damn country that should be enough. The only thing referenda will add it's cost and time.

WirlieG

July 31st, 2010, 10:11 AM

Especially when the referendum is well after then mayors have been created (at high cost) and those mayors will have precisely zero more powers than the existing council leaders have today.

All that will happen will be the party leader from the biggest party will be elected as mayor and things will continue exactly as before.

djay

July 31st, 2010, 12:30 PM

WirlieG

July 31st, 2010, 01:24 PM

how are they defining largest???? is it by population or LA size or something else?

12 largest non-London local authorities.

Blah - do you not agree the whole exercise is a total waste of time and a huge missed oportunity?

Surely the government should be looking at actually devolving powers as well as setting up the mayors and also,, where councils agree, have the mayor cross multiple authorities so they have power over a truer reflection of the city, such they can implement policies that join up across the whole city?

What part of this policy gets you so excited?

sotonsi

July 31st, 2010, 01:26 PM

Birmingham would surely count in both, but I'd guess it would be by LA population, with Birmingham being number 1, and not Carlisle which is geographically the biggest city as it's district covers loads of the surrounding area.

Also, it must surely depend on what they mean by city - taking out things like Cornwall and County Durham, and London Boroughs, you have as the largest single-tier LAs: Birmingham, Leeds, Sheffield, Bradford, Manchester, Liverpool, Bristol, Kirklees, Wakefield, Coventry, Wirral and Wigan. Kirklees, Wigan and Wirral aren't cities - would it be done differently?

Going by actual city size, it goes (London), Birmingham, Liverpool, Leeds, Sheffield, Bristol, Manchester, Leicester, Coventry, Hull, Bradford, Stoke and Wolverhampton. This might be the ones on the list, with the LAs of the same name getting the mayor. I don't see why it shouldn't continue down a bit further - Watford has a directly elected mayor (the borough council decided to have one, not even a top tier authority) and that's way down the list in terms of population - probably too far, but I don't see why all town/city/agglomeration-based unitary authorities (so top tier) shouldn't be given the choice to have a directly elected mayor.

Yes there's no new powers, but consider it like electing the prime minister directly. One of the problems with our election system is that we can only vote for our local representative, and not directly for who's in control. Is it worth the cost? I'm on the fence.

Interestingly, looking at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elected_mayors_in_the_United_Kingdom , most of the referendums fail - I wouldn't bother holding referenda in places that have had them recently.

WirlieG

July 31st, 2010, 03:03 PM

Yes there's no new powers, but consider it like electing the prime minister directly. One of the problems with our election system is that we can only vote for our local representative, and not directly for who's in control. Is it worth the cost? I'm on the fence.

Will it not simply be a case that each party in each authority simply puts up the local party leader for election?

It is not as if you will get to chose between any more than 1 Tory (already local party leader), 1 Lib Dem (already local party leader), 1 Labour (already local party leader) and some possible (joke) independents.

I am not sure how voting Tory for the party and Whitby for the mayor actually makes it more democratic?

The reaction of people like Digby Jones will be interesting. Correct me if I am wrong but he has long advoctaed a mayor for Birmingham.

Will he stand next May or will he deem it not worth while as he would not actually have any powers to actually make any decisions? I suspect the later.

I am not against local mayors, very far from it, I just wish that whoever is running Whitehall would give them real powers and powers across a sensible area.

Surely you want your mayor to be able to plan for a tram network and have the powers to deliver it.

Well the Tory plans fall well short of that, no powers to actually deliver it in any way and the powers are restricted over a small area through which the tram network is actually going to run - imagine Boris trying to manage the tube but only being able to control zone 1!

sotonsi

July 31st, 2010, 04:12 PM

It stops things like the council leadership changing mid-term (happened in Southampton, the Lib Dems who organised the coup got wiped out in the election 4 months later). It also gives better choice - say you didn't like the party you'd support's candidate in your ward, but wanted to vote for that party (This last general election had lots of that problem - expenses, or just not a good candidate). As I said, I'm on the fence here as to whether it's worth it, and I absolutely totally agree that it could be so so much better.

I note the party political thing - the Labour plans were just as bad, in fact, ideologically, Labour don't really support localism (especially Brownite-style statist Labour) - think of their NE assembly proposal which was really lame, whereas, while there's opposition from the Social Democrats and the Unionists, the political views espoused in the coalition's manifestos (obviously they differed on many things, though shared more than is commonly believed, but they both stole huge chunks of The Plan, by Carswell and Hannan, on localism). Everyone who could be in power nationally is a long way off, but there's more movement towards it from the current government.

Southampton doesn't really need a tram (except the SHRT plan to Gosport) - it would have to be on-street and so buses are probably better - the city is geographically small, and there's few corridors that you could build a tram along that would serve places as well as the bus and get the needed demand to justify it. It also had 80s plans for a city centre monorail, but then decided to spend the money on more useful things - I can just think how bad it would have been if they could raise their own money and went for it - it was so small and so roundabout that you could walk a lot of the common journeys in not much longer (10 minutes instead of 7, etc).

marmite747

August 1st, 2010, 01:21 AM

^^

David Cameron's promise to allow England's 12 largest cities to hold referendums on having our own version of Boris was one of the main reasons why I became a member!

It's working, and working well in London. Both under Ken & Boris!

I'm sorry but thats complete and utter rubbish. You can't attribute all of Londons developments to the mayor. Its not just Boris running the place - London has a very hard working efficient authority and council. The Elected Mayors do more damage than good, each one has their own crazy personal agenda and in their short term mean that the city goes around in loops. Take Boris' pledge to abolish half of the Congestion Charge zone - that is going to be terrible! So much for pro public transport and bike.

If Birmingham had the Power that the GLA had we would have similar systems - not if we had some elected celebrity loon.

WatcherZero

August 1st, 2010, 03:12 AM

Its also very different to Boris, Boris is the mayor of Greater London, the tories are proposing only the local authority areas of citys. So while it may work for Birmingham and leeds which are lea's covering the whole city, for places like Manchesterand Liverpool its akin to having a Boris for Westminster and the City of London only, lots of executive power in a tiny patch when everythings run on a county wide city region scale.

rtcw :)

August 1st, 2010, 10:27 PM

NXWM have started putting up posters in most of bus stops about smart card. Good job.

rtcw :)

August 15th, 2010, 04:29 PM

I need to ask for help again, I checked this (http://www.networkwestmidlands.com/web/FILES/29-08-2010.pdf) website about updates on bus routes.
This part I'm confused about, could anyone explain it to me more clearly?

28 National Express WM Small Heath - Great Barr via Castle Vale, Erdington | Rerouted between Heartlands Hospital and Scott Arms | Timetable changes.

28A National Express WM Heartlands Hospital - Perry Barr via Erdington | Re-routed from Heartlands Hospital to Great Barr School, Aldridge Road.

28B National Express WM Scott Arms - Small Heath via Ward End
Re-routed from Golden Hillock Road to Dyas Road.

Well, I don't know what does this mean.

ReissOmari

August 15th, 2010, 06:28 PM

^^ It sounds like their stopping the 28A to One Stop which isn't a good idea at all, seems like their cutting down on 28 routes.

Total screw up this is gonna be.

rtcw :)

August 16th, 2010, 11:07 AM

^^ It sounds like their stopping the 28A to One Stop which isn't a good idea at all, seems like their cutting down on 28 routes.

Total screw up this is gonna be.

It will be replaced by new bus route number 628.

ReissOmari

August 17th, 2010, 02:51 AM

We'll see how it turns out, i wonder what its going to be like without the 68 aswell, Anything running to Fort?

Edit: 966 to serve Fort.

ReissOmari

August 20th, 2010, 11:02 PM

Better Explained Changes from 29th August

http://www.travelwm.co.uk/news/Servicechangesfrom29August2010/684/

rtcw :)

August 29th, 2010, 08:16 PM

Most of buses in Birmingham are now equipped with smart card reader. I hope there will be something like Oyster card coming soon...

Erebus555

August 29th, 2010, 09:08 PM

feltip

August 29th, 2010, 09:11 PM

Does anyone else have monthly Direct Debit for TWM. I had notice on last ticket to say my Birmingham / Black Country was being upgraded to include Travel Coventry too.

yeah seem to be well received and easy to use from times i've seen people using them ^^

djay

August 30th, 2010, 02:34 AM

I noticed that the Smart cards seem quite popular already on the routes I've used. I haven't seen anyone find any difficulty in using them either. Considering these are just very early days for it in Birmingham, I'd say it is all looking very positive.

I never get the bus if i can help it... 170 one way is a joke fare. I usually get the train these days for 1.35 return. Hopefully if smart cards go to everyone eventually then they should give you a discount on ticket prices

WirlieG

August 30th, 2010, 09:43 AM

I never get the bus if i can help it... 170 one way is a joke fare. I usually get the train these days for 1.35 return. Hopefully if smart cards go to everyone eventually then they should give you a discount on ticket prices

But who would subsidise the tickets?

The TfL funding is very different to the funding in Brum.

rtcw :)

August 30th, 2010, 10:20 AM

But who would subsidise the tickets?

The TfL funding is very different to the funding in Brum.

Centro or Network west midlands.

WirlieG

August 30th, 2010, 10:27 AM

Centro or Network west midlands.

ok, so why are they not already subsidising the tickets to such an extent?

In London the ticket prices for non-Oyster cards are much higher than those Oster tickets. All of whicvh is massively subsidised by TfL.

rtcw :)

August 30th, 2010, 10:36 AM

ok, so why are they not already subsidising the tickets to such an extent?

In London the ticket prices for non-Oyster cards are much higher than those Oster tickets. All of whicvh is massively subsidised by TfL.

I don't know much about ticket subsiding. But I'm almost sure once tickets has become smart card, they'll subside it.

WirlieG

August 30th, 2010, 10:43 AM

I don't know much about ticket subsiding. But I'm almost sure once tickets has become smart card, they'll subside it.

Outside of London only services that provide a social service can be subsidised. e.g. hospital routes.

All others operate on a commercial basis.

Centro or whoever would not have the cash to offer such subsidy, if they did they are forbidden to by the current bus regulations.

rtcw :)

August 30th, 2010, 03:40 PM

Outside of London only services that provide a social service can be subsidised. e.g. hospital routes.

All others operate on a commercial basis.

Centro or whoever would not have the cash to offer such subsidy, if they did they are forbidden to by the current bus regulations.

Okay, no subsides. NXWM could reduce price because of money gained from less fare avoiders.

daumal

August 30th, 2010, 03:47 PM

Okay, no subsides. NXWM could reduce price because of money gained from less fare avoiders.

They could either do that or increase their profits.

Which do you think is more likely?

WirlieG

August 30th, 2010, 03:53 PM

Implementing smart cards will cost the bus companies not save them money.

The reality is, outside of London the vast majority of the benefits of smart card technology will be to season ticket holders.

feltip

August 30th, 2010, 03:55 PM

If you use bus twice a day then you get your discount by using a TWM travel card. That's the closest you'll get to Oyster / Non-Oyster comparison being as we don't have the TFL comparison.

WirlieG

August 30th, 2010, 04:00 PM

Depends how it's done.

In London the TfL effectively operate (or set the fares) all buses in London.

Not sure about Brum but here in Manc there are 60 odd bus operators with different fare structures.Do not assume anything.

hoody

August 31st, 2010, 04:06 AM

London Midlands ITSO smart card started in February between Kidderminster and Worcester, anyone seen them?

http://www.londonmidland.com/smart-card/?=

Biosonic

August 31st, 2010, 09:59 AM

WirlieG

August 31st, 2010, 10:04 AM

Same here - that's why we need the TfL model. Competition in the board room not the bus route.

I cannot see the current government re-regulating buses, not going to happen.

As such, any smart cards outside of London will primarily be season tickets in my opinion.

Those that are not will be 'pay as you go' style, but you will still have to inform the driver / ticket machine of your journey as no where operates a flat fare structure like happens on London buses and the Croydon trams.

Do not expect vast swathes of 'badging out' machines at all the bus stops.

morestoreysplease

August 31st, 2010, 11:20 AM

Are we the only city outside London to use a smartcard system?

i_like_concrete

August 31st, 2010, 11:26 AM

Nottingham uses one.

morestoreysplease

August 31st, 2010, 11:29 AM

Cheers i_l_c!

WirlieG

August 31st, 2010, 01:26 PM

Several cities have had some sort of trial.

There is small amounts of infrastructure here and there but I don't think anywhere has really adapted it.

Reckon NET in Nottingham, Supertram in Sheffield, Midland Metro and Metrolink will be the first obvious take up of the technology.

Don't see it being taken up on buses outside of London for all sorts of reasons.

morestoreysplease

September 3rd, 2010, 12:07 AM

Most of the bus companies have in Brum though Wirlie.

MattN

September 4th, 2010, 12:49 AM

Trent Barton have already implemented a smart card linked to their gps system where you touch in and out, and it deducts the fare (quite similar to the nationwide OV-Chipkaart in the Netherlands, except that's based on raw distance not fare stages). I am interested in seeing what comes of ITSO based proposals such as Yorcard.

The current government isn't going to return the planning of bus services to public bodies itself but nor does it seem to be reversing the legislation that allows individual authorities to do it themselves. SYPTE and WYPTE are pursuing such schemes right now.

WirlieG

September 5th, 2010, 10:25 AM

Most of the bus companies have in Brum though Wirlie.

Sure they have readers, as do all (???) new buses these days.

However, practically how will it work?

In London all fares are £1 for a journey (or they were in the spring).

So, board bus, badge on, £1 deducted from pay as you go Oyster card.

No requirement to badge off, all very simple.

How on earth does that work in a place like Brum with dozens of operators, all with different fare structures and very far from a flat fare per journey.

People will not badge off. Too many will forget to, too time consuming and will cause congestion around the place where you badge off.

So, at the point of boarding there needs to be a way of debitting the correct fare from the card in question.

The obvious way is to treat the card as an electronic payment system as you would in Tescos or a newagents.

Driver determines fare is £2.80 and that sum is taken off card.

It ain't going to have the same effect as in London as boarding won't be that much faster and the price cannot be subsidised.

sotonsi

September 5th, 2010, 10:45 AM

daz

September 5th, 2010, 05:15 PM

what's happening at Moor St. I'm overseas at the moment. Am I going to miss it's proper re-opening.

WirlieG

September 5th, 2010, 05:33 PM

It would make sense if it caps - eg if you use enough First (say) buses that a First day pass is cheaper, it doesn't charge you more than that.

But otherwise, yes, it's just a contactless cash card unless the fare structure radically changes.

With flat fares, but different operators, you could load carnets onto your machine at 12 singles for 10, or something, and then it becomes a bit more useful.

But only if all journeys are with the same company.

If you travel from A to B with Stagecoach, then B to C with Arriva and then C to A with First expect to pay the full three fares.

i_like_concrete

September 5th, 2010, 05:39 PM

I'm still perplexed as to why they keep the short hop fares anyway, they're usually only 20-30p cheaper. It would surely be better to do away with them and lower the maximum fare...

nigeman

September 5th, 2010, 07:29 PM

what's happening at Moor St. I'm overseas at the moment. Am I going to miss it's proper re-opening.
Had a look from the multi-storey car park opposite today, they still seem to be working on the track improvements 200 yds from the station, can't see any work on the platforms themselves yet! Think it will be a good while yet before the re-opening

.

smysticed

September 6th, 2010, 12:11 AM

NX Coventry they have removed short hop fares already, or rather they have just made it the same price as the standard fare, which is a strange way to do it if you ask me

MattN

September 6th, 2010, 12:50 AM

Well Trent Barton obviously haven't had much trouble with people touching off 'Wirlie'.

Have they?

Because then, surely, in their inimitable style, they would have mentioned it by now and probably abandoned the Mango.

Wouldn't they?

How do they Dutch manage, getting people to touch out, they reckon fare evasion has dropped sharply since the OV-Chipkaart came in.

Well?

I'm pretty sure both of them, certainly the Dutch, debit a fairly large sum from the card when touching in then settle it up when you touch off, as does the Oyster on rail services.

The real issue is the tariffs as you pointed out, but believe it or not South and West Yorks are pursuing schemes whereby this problem can be resolved.

If not quality contracts, statutory partnerships could perhaps be hashed out to unify tariffs.

Seems to be something the operators are suddenly massively keen on in Sheffield.

Maybe Greater Skancunium should get in on the act hey?

Centro could appen have a go too if they wanted.

WirlieG

September 6th, 2010, 09:11 AM

MattH - what is the take up of Mango and what services are available on it?

How many commercial operators have abopted it so far?

With regards the Yocard my understanding is that the trial did not go as was expected as such the project has stalled.

Amsterdam, yes, very good but simple as ran but the local authorities.

Locally here in Manchester it's being introdcued on the trams, as I expect will happen across the UK and it being trialled in Bolton.

All I suggest is that we will not be seeing anything like they have in London.

No reduced fares, not necessarily cheapest ticket when multiple tickets were purchased.

We will get some sort of ITSO card, it will probably be a touch cash card that carries credit more than what the London system is.

MattN

September 6th, 2010, 03:22 PM

The Mango is a card developed for/by Trent Barton. You touch in/out and the fare is deducted based on the fare stages (updated by GPS), but is 25% cheaper than cash and presumably designed to replace things like Frio if that still exists (buy 10 trips get 3 free).

WirlieG

September 6th, 2010, 03:27 PM

I see todays Metro has a short article headlined "See all of Britain by Smartcard".

Not sure how acurate it is but the essentials are...

1) A single smart card could soon be available for travl on all public transport in UK. Within years.

2) Norman Baker wants to speed up the roll out.

3) "The aim is that you get one smartcard ticket....... The cards would be topped up in shops, online or over the phone with fares automatically deducted".

We'll see what gets rolled out but I cannot see it being implemented with as many featues as Oyster has

daumal

September 9th, 2010, 12:33 PM

From Whitby's 'State of the City' speech:

With our Highways PFI now up and running, we are also on the cusp of making major announcements around the city’s transport vision for the future – along with an innovative new plan, created in partnership with the private sector, for linking the city centre

Tenner to anyone who wants it that this "innovative new plan" is a bus service.

Biosonic

September 9th, 2010, 02:46 PM

Mary Poppins-style umbrellas for all! :banana:

Biosonic

September 23rd, 2010, 02:58 PM

:)

http://www.birminghampost.net/news/newsaggregator//tm_headline=spoof-twitter-feed-puts-birmingham-bus-company-in-a-jam%26method=full%26objectid=27324323%26siteid=65233-name_page.html

Spoof Twitter feed puts Birmingham bus company in a jam
Sep 23 2010 by Anna Blackaby, Birmingham Post
Add a commentRecommend (2) A spoof Twitter feed which announces bus cancellations due to rioting peasants and warns passengers not to engage with “hoodies” is causing a social media headache for National Express.

The Birmingham-based transport firm, which runs the vast majority of buses across the West Midlands, is appealing to Twitter to shut down the @Travel_WM account which has been falsely tweeting on its behalf.

Unsuspecting members of the public following it online have been treated to tweets telling them:

* The X62 service is diverted around Northfield and Rubery until Sunday night due to rioting peasants

* The 24 route is a problem for us, a lot of the drivers are “recovered” meth heads and take an inordinate amount of pee-breaks

* Our buses are perfectly safe, as long as you sit downstairs and don’t engage any ‘hoodies’.

Travel_WM has even entered into belligerent exchanges with disgruntled bus users, many of whom seem unaware it is not the voice of National Express.

The feed, which has more followers than National Express’s official bus Twitter account @nxbus, has prompted the operator to contact Twitter to request it be taken down.

Martin Hancock, development director for National Express West Midlands, said: “Many businesses utilise Twitter as a customer service and marketing tool but it is important to remember that it is social media.

"By its very nature, there are people tweeting about the business and fansites on Facebook and we welcome this. So when we were recently made aware of a Twitter account masquerading as an official company account we looked at the content and some of the tweets were offensive.

"We tried to contact the creator directly asking them to change their biography to state it is unofficial, however as they don’t follow the real site, this was not possible.

"Also, as the views are not representative of the business we have notified Twitter and we anticipate the offensive content will be removed shortly.

“A new website for National Express West Midlands will be launched soon and the official tweets will be part of the site.

“We also have twitter accounts for two of our main bus routes.”

markmcd1976

September 23rd, 2010, 04:39 PM

Sums the bus experience up quiet well actually.

Bureau des etrangers

September 23rd, 2010, 11:45 PM

The next driver who i see texting whilst driving gets dog shit thrown at their windscreen, especially parents with children in the back.... what is wrong with people??

call me old fashioned but the law is there for a reason

NeilM

September 24th, 2010, 03:53 PM

I thought something similar had been posted already, but I can't see it, so here you are:

Loans for big city transport schemes back on the agenda

Sep 24 2010 By Jonathan Walker

More than £500 million could be raised to pay for a series of ambitious transport schemes in the West Midlands after Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg announced radical reforms to rules on council borrowing.

Projects lined up include a new public transport service between Birmingham Airport and the city centre, a new railway station in Wolverhampton and the long-awaited extension of the Midland Metro to Brierley Hill in the Black Country.

But residents in the West Midlands may be reticent to believe the proposals as the Birmingham Post reported near-identical aspirations two years ago when the seven metropolitan councils called for similar Accelerated Development Zones which never came to fruition.

It follows Mr Clegg’s announcement at the Liberal Democrat conference in Liverpool that councils will be free to borrow cash to pay for major infrastructure projects designed to boost the local economy.

Loans will be repaid from the increase in business rates councils can expect to receive once the infrastructure is in place.

The scheme, known as Tax Increment Financing, will be one of a range of policies included in a new policy paper setting out measures to improve the economy in the English regions outside London and the south east.

Authorities in the West Midlands have been calling for the policy for many years and Birmingham City Council’s deputy leader Paul Tilsley (Lib Dem Sheldon) said he had been lobbying Lib Dem ministers in government, including Mr Clegg and Danny Alexander, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, to introduce the measure.

A range of projects are already lined up to take advantage of the scheme, although the Government has not yet announced when it will be up and running.

They include a £425 million rapid transit system between Birmingham city centre and the airport, of which £295 million will be funded by Tax Increment Financing borrowing. Details of the system have not been decided but it could involve a new light rail scheme.

More than £173 million could be borrowed to fund the £292 million Wednesbury to Brierley Hill Rapid Metro extension.

Councils also want to raise £19 million to help pay for Wolverhampton Interchange Railway Station, £19 million for transport improvements at Longbridge, Birmingham, and £29.4 million towards the i54 business park on the outskirts of Wolverhampton
.

But Coun Tilsley said the new freedoms for local councils to raise funding could allow Birmingham to pursue a range of other projects, such as introducing high speed broadband in the city.

He said: “I was extremely pleased with the announcement. It is something I have been working on for a long time.

“It could be that when we look at our transport infrastructure, it would give us the opportunity to improve that. It could let us make up in any shortfall in funding for the Metro extension.

“It could give us the opportunity of investing in super broadband, which would give us a competitive edge on other cities in the UK.”

Announcing the policy in Liverpool, Mr Clegg said: “It is the first step to breathing life back into our greatest cities.”

The new Government scheme can only be used to pay for infrastructure, such as major buildings. It will also require councils to find a lender, such as a bank, willing to share the risk of the project failing to bring in the expected increase in business taxes.

It will also add to Britain’s debts – at a time when the Government says cutting the budget deficit is a top priority.

Mr Clegg said: “We will put local government back in charge of the money it raises and spends.

“That’s why in our first budget we unlocked more than a billion pounds of ring-fenced grants.

“That’s why we will end central capping of council tax. That’s why we will allow councils to keep some of the extra business rates and council tax they raise when they enable new developments to go ahead.

“And I can announce we will be giving local authorities the freedom to borrow against those extra business rates to help pay for additional new developments.”

He added: “In every city in the UK, what matters most is that finally, they will be in the driving seat, instead of waiting for a handout from Whitehall. Local people, local power, local change.”

Councillor Mike Whitby, Chair of the City Region Board and Leader of Birmingham City Council, said: “City Region council and business leaders have been at the forefront of a national campaign to persuade Government to allow us to use tax increment financing to boost competitiveness and jobs.”

He added: “Working with partners in southern Staffordshire and north Worcestershire we have five ready to go major transport investment projects which if supported by £536 million of TIF funding would create over 20,000 new jobs.’’

Councillor Neville Patten, leader of Wolverhampton City Council which is directly involved in two of the five schemes added: “Our fully costed and detailed calculations show that tax increment financed borrowing of £38 million would support the development of Wolverhampton railway station and the i54 site creating up to 7,700 new jobs.”

Read More http://www.birminghampost.net/news/politics-news/2010/09/24/loans-for-big-city-transport-schemes-back-on-the-agenda-65233-27331802/#ixzz10SGWcuLj

Splop

October 4th, 2010, 10:33 AM

Loans for big city transport schemes back on the agenda

Sep 24 2010 By Jonathan Walker

More than £500 million could be raised to pay for a series of ambitious transport schemes in the West Midlands after Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg announced radical reforms to rules on council borrowing.

Projects lined up include a new public transport service between Birmingham Airport and the city centre, a new railway station in Wolverhampton and the long-awaited extension of the Midland Metro to Brierley Hill in the Black Country.

*faints*

What was wrong with the one they just demolished FFS?

As for the Nat Express Twitter thing:

Was it wrong that I literally ROFLed when I read it?

Biosonic

October 5th, 2010, 11:29 AM

There is scaffolding up on the St Chad's Queensway tunnel/Snow Hill viaduct and I think they have taken down the advertisement hoarding where the new steps down from the tram are going to go, so...

Could we be seeing the start of the bridge link and tram stop?

Nacho

October 5th, 2010, 12:41 PM

Here is a previous feltip post showing what the proposed stop will look like .I quite like it .:)

Images from the Metro planning application to show the Snow Hill stop.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b141/Feltip/Planning%20Images/snowmetrodesign2.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b141/Feltip/Planning%20Images/snowmetrodesign3.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b141/Feltip/Planning%20Images/snowmetrodesign1.jpg

ReissOmari

October 5th, 2010, 01:57 PM

^^ I Think we could be because there are road work sing all over town saying 'Major Roadworks at St. Chads Circus for 30weeks', i wonder what they could be doing because its practically a new road.. I was on the 120 at around 10.30pm the other night, and it went through the tunnel, and turned around at Lancaster and come back to snow hill, so it could well be the bridge :banana:

morestoreysplease

October 5th, 2010, 03:18 PM

Great news! What's the betting this opens the same time as rail entrance no.2?

U475 Foxtrot

October 5th, 2010, 05:15 PM

Great news! What's the betting this opens the same time as rail entrance no.2?

30 weeks to get the new entrance open? Not a chance, I think they're trying to coincide with the HS2 opening. :tongue:

blahblah

October 5th, 2010, 08:08 PM

^^ So. The tramstop will be moved away from the existing station. The station itself is to get new access which again is away from the existing station.

Renders on the Big City Plan show the existing Snow Hill station not being there.

There's a bit of a theme here, isn't there?!

Nacho

October 5th, 2010, 08:31 PM

If the new Metro stop goes ahead it will be within spitting distance of St Paul's stop .

woodhousen

October 5th, 2010, 08:38 PM

i can confirm the bridge is being put in place.... but nothing will be going on it until the government coughs up some cash!

Nacho

October 5th, 2010, 09:09 PM

Thanks for the confirmation Woodhousen .The bridge itself is important in that the line won't lose its powers .Minor work will apparantly be done on the Dudley route ; once again in order to retain its powers .

Talking of transit things , it's hard to believe that Merry Hill had an operating monorail .

Here is a good document .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbu74UEKd28&feature=related

CityGent

October 5th, 2010, 11:10 PM

Some cool hoardings have gone up by platforms 3-5:
http://i53.tinypic.com/5cal2f.jpg
The cube seems to now have a temporary use as a conference room. A Chiltern office would be a decent use for this permanently IMO.

Work continues trackside too:
http://i53.tinypic.com/2m30azb.jpg

feltip

October 6th, 2010, 12:10 AM

From the Annual report from the Lead Member on the West Midlands Integrated Transport Authority to City Council. Quite a few interesting bits and updates linked to above comments ^^

The rollout of Smartcard equipment onto buses and into depots to enable
electronic data collection and ultimately to act as a platform for cashless
integrated ticketing, has continued during the year. Over 88% of all buses
in the region are now Smart enabled and being used by concessionary card
holder this will also be used for Operator reimbursements as from 1st April
2011. The next stage is to develop an electronic payments solution for
travel similar to the London Oyster Card but with greater flexibility and
greater variety of payment methods, bank cards, mobile telephones etc.
Initially this is likely to start with the bus network, then the Metro and
ultimately onto the rail network.

...
Further design work has been completed on Camp
Hill Chords/Moor Street platforms due to overall funding uncertainty but work
continues on the New Street/Moor Street Link.

...
The planning powers that Centro holds under the TWA for the city centre
scheme have been protected and construction works will start in September
on the Great Charles Street bridge which will link the existing rail viaduct
with the Ballymore Snow Hill development. It is important that these works
take place at the present time as works on phase 2 of the Snow Hill
development could recommence in January 2011, limiting the future ability
to construct this bridge.

...
Snow Hill Access is now substantially complete with the exception of a small
number of snagging items and the completion of the legal documentation to
secure the handover of the facility to London Midlands. The medium/long
term strategy is to ensure that the Second Access operates in its original
intended purpose as a hub linking the new Midlands Metro stop serving the
lower Snow Hill and Colmore business areas of the City. The Authority is
therefore developing a model to become the Station Facility Owner for the
Section Access and therefore to take full responsibility for operation and
maintenance.

...
The initial phase of work to
Platform 1, further work will be done later in the programme, will be
complete and handed back to operational use at the beginning of December
at which time the focus will move to platform 12. Stephenson Tower, on the
south of the site, is now vacant and deconstruction work will soon
commence following the recent appointment of a demolition contractor.

...
Centro has successfully negotiated
with London Midland to continue to operate a 10-minute turn up and go
frequency on Saturdays on the Cross City North line between Birmingham
New Street and Four Oaks, despite DfT only funding 4 trains per hour.

...
Chiltern will be introducing a new timetable on 12
December 2010 this will deliver an improved service to London, and a new
shuttle service between Leamington Spa and Moor Street. Snow Hill station
will see fewer services at off-peak times. The full benefits of the new
timetable will not be realised until May 2011 when line speed improvements
at the south of their route are delivered.

...
Chiltern Railway are currently implementing Evergreen 3 project to re-open
2 terminal platforms at Moor Street linked with services to Leamington and
Marylebone in December

Splop

October 6th, 2010, 10:27 AM

From the Annual report from the Lead Member on the West Midlands Integrated Transport Authority to City Council. Quite a few interesting bits and updates linked to above comments ^^

Chiltern Railway are currently implementing Evergreen 3 project to re-open
2 terminal platforms at Moor Street linked with services to Leamington and
Marylebone in December

Awesome! :banana:

Nacho

October 6th, 2010, 09:03 PM

Today's transport update .

http://centro.journalistpresslounge.com/centro/news/index.cfm/fuseaction/details/id/81E89D9E-13D3-97AA-2DCD3777CDF4BCD3/cnt/1/ref/main/type/News%20Releases/ses/1.cfm

Nacho

October 7th, 2010, 04:55 PM

Wednesbury-Dudley line update .

http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2010/10/01/sharing-tracks-hope-for-midland-metro-expansion/

Splop

October 7th, 2010, 09:57 PM

Wednesbury-Dudley line update .

http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2010/10/01/sharing-tracks-hope-for-midland-metro-expansion/

Would that mean the track would be built to heavy rail standard?

Nacho

October 7th, 2010, 10:39 PM

I believe so Splop.

Typhoon2000

October 8th, 2010, 04:09 AM

Would that mean the track would be built to heavy rail standard?

Most likely... kinda similar to the German S-Bahn approach (and that which Newcastle's metro uses). good plan.

Splop

October 9th, 2010, 12:39 PM

Most likely... kinda similar to the German S-Bahn approach (and that which Newcastle's metro uses). good plan.

For some strange reason I find myself thinking the same thing, and I detest the Metro! :sly:

Probably something to do with the fact that some more of the old GWR looks set to be saved, even if it is just for freight. :)

Typhoon2000

October 10th, 2010, 01:43 AM

Hey does ANYone know what happened last night (Saturday night) at around 23:30??.. all the buses were severely late and the city was in total gridlock.. it seemed to originate from the St Chad's area, or at least the tunnel- and it blocked cars coming from Cape Hill, the Jewellery Quarter (toward the BMW garage), Bristol Street, Brioad Street and Hill Street... chaos!

ReissOmari

October 10th, 2010, 02:50 PM

^^ St. Chads is closed for the next 30weeks to complete a brigde, from 22:00-06:00 every night.. bad idea to travel through town at night

Typhoon2000

October 10th, 2010, 04:36 PM

^^ St. Chads is closed for the next 30weeks to complete a brigde, from 22:00-06:00 every night.. bad idea to travel through town at night

No, this seemed more serious - There were a few ambulances trying to get down the road, and whilst I know that closures can cause problems.. this pretty much stopped the whole town.... I took the 126 (after waiting for 40 minutes) and there were tailbacks that went up to Spring Hill Tesco... and Icould see that traffic was backing up from the BMW garage to the clock at the Jewellery Quarter.

ReissOmari

October 10th, 2010, 05:29 PM

I'm not sure then, maybe something happened on Broad Street, yesterday daytime was also chaos in town, i think there was a car on fire in a car park on Dale End, alot of buses were diverted toward Colmore row!

morestoreysplease

October 10th, 2010, 10:52 PM

If any street in the city centre is closed there is always chaos somewhere. The planners who designed the road system need to go to school again on creating freeflowing road systems. I noticed this the other day witnessing the amount of traffic queueing up to go around past the Hippodrome which had come down from Station St??? Why have traffic go around in circles and then have roads going absolutely nowhere like Navigation St and Smallbrook Queensway up to New St Station?? I remember when Hill St was only open to buses for a while while traffic which had come up it as far as Navigation St had to turn left only to get caught up in more Queensway traffic rather than being released out of the area at the Town Hall.
We seriously need to allow roads that are not going to be pedestrianised, to be managed properly so that any emergency in one section won't clog up the entire centre.

ReissOmari

October 10th, 2010, 11:01 PM

^^ I remember when Hurst street used to be 2 way, there was traffic but not as much because there was more ways to get around the area, we need some kind of Transport BID, are Centro planning on building a Bus Station on Moor St? That would be a good idea so all buses would go to one place instead of all over town also causing gridlock, then traffic from Digbeth use the middle ring road, as you say msp the designers really do need to go back to school! i was looking on Google Earth History the other day at Masshouse Circus, even though it was an ugly road there wouldn't be as much traffic around town if it was still there!

feltip

October 10th, 2010, 11:51 PM

Regarding the bridge works this is from the council website:

A38 Great Charles Street – 29th September 2010 until January 2011
Balfour Beaty Civil Engineering Ltd will commence works on installing a new bridge
structure across Great Charles Street Queensway. The new bridge is to
accommodate the Metro and provide a pedestrian link across Great Charles Street
via Metro Station and lift. The road closure is to allow the demolition of the existing
bridge and the installation of the new deck. Works will be carried out at weekends
and out of normal hours to minimise disruption. The closures will be between
St Chads Circus and Livery Street.

Biosonic

October 11th, 2010, 11:03 AM

I didn't realise they were taking the old bridge down.

marmite747

October 11th, 2010, 01:16 PM

Traffic really was a nightmare on Sat night, the worst I have ever known it. Ringing a taxi to pick us up from Broadway Plaza we were told all their taxis were stuck in town because 'something had happened' and there would be an indefinite wait. Tried another few companies too and was told the same thing. After waiting half an hour I decided to walk to Five Ways and just managed to catch the last train home (23:37)
Heard a LOT of sirens whilst waiting all going up Broad Street towards the city. I wonder what happened....

hoody

October 12th, 2010, 06:18 PM

Latest progress on Snowhill bridge removal

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/martynahood/c886beba.jpg

fruit&nut

October 12th, 2010, 06:27 PM

Nacho

October 12th, 2010, 07:30 PM

Thanks for the pic .

Nacho

October 12th, 2010, 07:43 PM

Good news for Tile Hill station .

Date: 12-Oct-10
Category: News : Rail
Contact: Swingler, Steve

£1 million boost for Tile Hill rail passengers

Commuters using a busy Coventry rail station are in line for a major boost after work started this week on extending its hugely popular ‘Park and Ride’ facility.

Centro, the region’s transport authority, is spending £1 million adding a further 240 free parking spaces at Tile Hill, bringing the total to 332.

The extension is being carried out to ease overcrowding in the station’s existing car park which has proved so popular with commuters that it is often full before the end of the morning rush hour.

The extra spaces could also see around 210,000 car journeys taken off local roads each year as commuters drive to Tile Hill, take advantage of the free parking and then complete their commute by train.

Cllr Ken Rushen, lead member for rail and Metro at Centro said: “Park and Ride schemes play a vital role in taking millions of car journeys off our roads each year which in turn reduces congestion and carbon emissions.

“But in many ways our free Park and Ride facilities, such as the one at Tile Hill, have become a victim of their own success with many becoming full very quickly in the morning.

“That is why we are committed to providing more free spaces at rail stations. Tile Hill is just the latest in a number of Park and Ride expansion schemes we have in the pipeline.”

The new spaces, which will also help reduce parking on surrounding streets, will be next to the station’s existing car park and will have upgraded lighting, CCTV cameras and help points linked to the Network Safety and Security Centre.

Around 70 of the new spaces, which are being built for Centro by contractor C Spencer Ltd, could be ready by Christmas with the remainder due for completion by spring 2011.

Centro’s congestion-busting Park and Ride facilities have been a major success in helping to persuade motorists to make the bulk of their daily commute by rail and there are now more than 6,500 free spaces at Centro’s 53 heavy rail car parks and four of its Metro stops.

These spaces are calculated to take more than 53,000 journeys off the road each week, reducing carbon dioxide emissions by 6,200 tonnes a year.

Centro and its partners have invested £14 million in Park and Ride since 1997 and all of the car parks have been awarded Safer Parking Accreditation for achieving low levels of vehicle crime and anti-social behaviour.

nigeman

October 13th, 2010, 12:49 AM

Probably some idiot standing on some railings whilst the police tried to coax him down with food and drink....
Michael Buble was in town (NIA) and a lot of people went to see him and poured out about 10.30 onwards

Typhoon2000

October 13th, 2010, 02:29 AM

ReissOmari

October 13th, 2010, 02:47 PM

New address and website for NXWM

http://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/

daumal

October 14th, 2010, 02:47 PM

Whilst wandering around the internet a few days ago I came across this (http://gfleet.co.uk/download/WMMultiModalStudy.pdf) - it's a multi-modal transport study for the West Midlands from 2001. I assume that nobody's ever paid attention to it because of the costs involved, but I really liked some of the ideas in it, and it's a shame funding was never made available for something like this. At any rate, it made me think that Centro and the councils of the midlands should really have some sort of transport masterplan, setting out a 'best case scenario' for the kind of infrastructure the region needs if money were no object. Then any investment made could be measured by how much it takes us towards this ideal situation.

Some highlights for the eventual outcome in 2031 include a Metro network with the following lines:

Birmingham to Walsall
Birmingham to BIA via Chelmsley Wood
Birmingham to BIA via Sheldon
Birmingham - Shirley - Solihull
Birmingham - Moseley - Kings Heath - Maypole
Birmingham to Northfield
Birmingham - Quinton - Halsowen (with branches to Bartley Green and Londonderry)
Walsall - Wednesbury
Walsall - Wolverhampton
Wolverhampton - Priestfield - Dudley

These are in addition to the Wednesbury - Brierley Hill route which seems to be treated as inevitable.

The most interesting idea is a 'Regional Express Rail' network, centred on Snow Hill/Moor Street and a new underground level for local services beneath New Street (connected to Moor Street). This would involve four-tracking routes which are currently used by intercity trains and using two of the tracks for local trains only, allowing a 6tph frequency. This would run on the following lines:

Coventry - Birmingham - Wolverhampton
Cannock - Walsall - Birmingham - Nuneaton
Lichfield - Birmingham - Redditch
Tamworth - Birmingham - Worcester
Leamington Spa/Warwick - Birmingham - Kidderminster
Walsall - Birmingham - Shirley - Stratford

Anyway, I thought that some people might find it interesting if they'd never seen it before and (like me) are sad enough to find reading transport plans interesting. It beats the "Hey guys, how about a new bus service!" attitude which prevails at the moment - I suppose 2001 was just a more optimistic time.

Nacho

October 14th, 2010, 08:30 PM

Thanks for posting that daumal ; I think I went through it some time ago but it was good to go through it again .As we know , in the subsequent ten years nothing has been implemented as far as rail and Metro are concerned .Unless we get greater control over our finances we will unfortunately see more of the same for the next ten years .Hopefully , HS2 could act as a catalyst for improved infrastructure but we need to get that expansion in place before the new station is built .

Nacho

October 14th, 2010, 09:27 PM

Today's update concerning transport funding .

http://www.birminghampost.net/news/newsaggregator//tm_headline=major-west-midlands-transport-plans-facing-axe-amid-budget-cuts%26method=full%26objectid=27472723%26siteid=65233-name_page.html

Bureau des etrangers

October 14th, 2010, 10:47 PM

Probably some idiot standing on some railings whilst the police tried to coax him down with food and drink....

I would have put sleeping pills in his Mcflurry :devil:

Typhoon2000

October 15th, 2010, 03:35 AM

I would have put sleeping pills in his Mcflurry :devil:

Taser disguised as a McShake... two 'straws' on the top...:devil:

Biosonic

October 15th, 2010, 09:34 AM

http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/westmidlands/news/76476-bridge-project-heralds-faster-trains-to-london.html

Bridge project heralds faster trains to London
15th October 2010

Chiltern Railways
CHILTERN Railways has completed a major project at Birmingham’s Moor Street station which should help to speed up faster journey times to London.

This project was the replacement of a section of the Bordesley viaduct, Wing Yip Bridge, which was formerly the Birmingham head office of leading Chinese and Oriental food supplier Wing Yip.

The new structure was lifted into place and officially topped out by radio DJ and the chairman of the Friends of Moor Street station, Les Ross.

This part of the viaduct was in very poor condition and had been out of use since 1987. Early in the project the old bridge was removed and a replacement concrete bridge span - dressed with a steel frontage to preserve the original look - was lifted by a crane into place in September.

Ian Baxter, general manager north at Chiltern Railways, said: “We know that passengers who travel from Moor Street with Chiltern Railways already have an excellent travelling experience – but we also know that Moor Street can do more.

“Now this milestone has been completed we are getting very close to introducing our new fast route to London - bringing with it new opportunities and prosperity for Birmingham.”

Network Rail route director Jo Kaye added: "Putting a special frontage on the bridge to maintain its original look is a fine example of heritage and modernity working side by side, and is entirely in keeping with the overall look and feel of Moor Street station."

Brian Yip, director at Wing Yip said: “The new line will significantly improve the transport infrastructure and make Birmingham a more accessible and competitive place to do business in the UK.”

The new bridge is part of a programme of targeted improvements Chiltern Railways is making to create the Chiltern Mainline. This will reduce journey times between Moor Street and London by an average of 20% - around 100 minutes.

New platforms will open at Moor Street by December 2010 and this combined with improvements already made to the route will provide some reductions to journey times even before the expected completion of the mainline in May 2011.

Biosonic

October 15th, 2010, 09:44 AM

The new transport plan is due out next month and will include details of the rapid transit system. It sounds like a road tram - a lighter tram on tyres that needs a dedicated lane.

Nacho

October 15th, 2010, 10:17 AM

Nacho

October 15th, 2010, 10:36 AM

This is the type of vehicle used .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3UyXdIQjBM&feature=related

Here is the one used in Istambul.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH7Avw2RPkk&feature=related

Biosonic

October 15th, 2010, 10:50 AM

It's disapponting but inevitable and expected in the current economic climate .If we take a look at the projected Rapid Transit map in the Big City Plan ,then this system is welcomed on the lines that were never intended for the Metro .However , I now fear the Hagley Road/M5 Metro route will be abandoned .

I thought this initially but then I thought about it some more...

On a practical side - realistically we aren't going to get all (any) of the trams we need immediately but something still needs to be done. These are a tiny proportion of the cost of a tram.

On a strategic side - they still need a dedicated lane so traffic will be excluded and people will get used to using them. They could in the longer term pave the way for trams and could actually build up demand. As long as they make the lanes wide enough for future tram installation, future tram works could be done without much disruption.

I still think the tram should be extended to Five Ways, or at least Centenary Square, but this isn't so bad.

Nacho

October 15th, 2010, 11:01 AM

I agree with you Bio ; it could pave the way for future routes .Once the Metro arrives at New Street , it would be ridiculous not to take it over to Centenary Square/Five Ways .Apart from the bridge, costs would be minimum with only a couple of extra trams needed .

daumal

October 15th, 2010, 01:43 PM

As long as it gets its own lane then I think it's a positive development, assuming that the roadspace is designed to be large enough for upgrades later on if/when the money becomes available.

neon18

October 16th, 2010, 05:04 PM

Birmingham seeking to take control of railway stations out of private hands
Oct 16 2010, by Edward Chadwick

Birmingham could become the first city to take back control of its railway stations from private firms.

Regional transport body Centro has made a case for wresting back the right to operate and manage some of the 67 stations across the West Midlands.

Authors of a report outlined to Centro’s transport strategy committee said they believe that the body would be better placed to make life easier for passengers.

Coun Ken Rushen (Lib Dem, Solihull) told members that by accepting the same funding that is paid to Network Rail and the operators it would be able to plough more cash in to stations.

“At the moment the way stations are operated is rather fragmented, with some money going to operators and some going to Network Rail,” said Coun Rushen.

“We need to develop multi-modal interchanges so commuters can change from bus to train. I think there is also a sense of pride that comes from local ownership.”

Coun Rushen also expressed concerns that some operators had adopted a “make-do-and-mend” approach to maintenance.

“Only Chiltern Railways seem interested in investing and we believe we can attract better catering and retail facilities.

“There may be one or two of the operators which are resistant to this but we will continue working with the Department for Transport.”

Centro chief executive Geoff Inskip said there was some suspicion about how much money from the Department of Transport for maintenance was reaching stations.

“There is some money going in to rail stations but we don’t know where it goes,” he said. “We are therefore proposing that this revenue scheme should come through Centro so the system can be more transparent.”

A draft strategy was welcomed by members and Centro leaders will continue to work with Network Rail and the DfT.

Meanwhile, Birmingham business leaders have asked for talks with train operators bidding for the franchise to operate the West Coast Mainline between Birmingham and London.

Virgin Trains, which currently operates the line, had asked for a two-year extension to its current contract, which ends in 2012, but this was rejected by the Government.

Transport Minister Theresa Villiers said the Government would listen to bids for a new 15-year franchise.

Jerry Blackett, chief executive of Birmingham Chamber of Commerce, said: “Based on discussions with prospective franchisees, Birmingham Chamber Group will also provide a view to the DfT on the alignment of the potential franchisee with the perceived needs of business. Services from London to the West Midlands have not enjoyed the recent journey time reductions that have been experienced on routes between London, Liverpool, Manchester and Preston. West Midlands business is concerned this has created a competitive disadvantage and we will make this point to prospective franchisees.”

Business leaders are understood to be furious about an advert placed in the Tory Party Conference brochure by Virgin, which claimed journey times from the capital to Birmingham were two hours and eight minutes on average. The actual journey time rarely exceeds one hour and 25 minutes.

A member of the West Midlands Business Transport Group has revealed in an anonymous online blog post that the advert angered members – especially as the time is only eight minutes quicker than when the service was launched 30 years ago.

The rail operator sent a representative to the last meeting of the group, which is hosted by Birmingham Chamber, but he was unable to list three features of the route that had improved since they took on the franchise.

The blog reads: “Aggrieved Black Country businessfolk were horrified to learn that the journey from Wolverhampton to London (126 miles) actually takes nine minutes longer than the journey from Warrington to London (180 miles).”

Birmingham Chamber said it did not endorse the comments of the blogger.

A spokesman for Virgin said: “We admit we got it wrong with the poster and if it has caused any distress we apologise. I’m sure they know that the actual journey time is a lot shorter. We operate to the timetable laid out in the franchise. We look forward to seeing the specification for the new franchise.”http://www.birminghampost.net/news/west-midlands-transport-news/2010/10/16/birmingham-seeking-to-take-control-of-railway-stations-out-of-private-hands-65233-27480607/