What new station are you referring to?

Check the articles posted on the B'ham official page today.

New rail station is 'unwanted distraction' Dec 9 2005
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The possibility of a major new railway station being built in Birmingham is an unwanted distraction and could delay the £350 million redevelopment of New Street Station, business leaders have warned.

West Midlands Business Transport Group chairman Jerry Blackett said the new station plan, which is being considered by the Department for Transport and has the backing of Virgin West Coast, would give the Government a golden opportunity to refuse to fund the long-awaited New Street scheme.

Mr Blackett said the DfT's latest proposal was based on claims that a redeveloped New Street would not have enough capacity to cope with demand for rail use and it would be cheaper to build a new station on a brownfield site.

The suggestion was untrue because the New Street project would include an option to add a tunnelled track, significantly increasing the number of trains able to use the station, he said.

Mr Blackett warned against fuelling a perception that a redeveloped New Street would not meet the rail requirements of the West Midlands.


He added: "The lead-in times for these projects are so long that if we start suggesting we haven't got the right answer the Government will wash its hands in glee and it will take another five years to get something planned."

New rail station is 'unwanted distraction' Dec 9 2005
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

The possibility of a major new railway station being built in Birmingham is an unwanted distraction and could delay the £350 million redevelopment of New Street Station, business leaders have warned.

West Midlands Business Transport Group chairman Jerry Blackett said the new station plan, which is being considered by the Department for Transport and has the backing of Virgin West Coast, would give the Government a golden opportunity to refuse to fund the long-awaited New Street scheme.

Mr Blackett said the DfT's latest proposal was based on claims that a redeveloped New Street would not have enough capacity to cope with demand for rail use and it would be cheaper to build a new station on a brownfield site.

The suggestion was untrue because the New Street project would include an option to add a tunnelled track, significantly increasing the number of trains able to use the station, he said.

Mr Blackett warned against fuelling a perception that a redeveloped New Street would not meet the rail requirements of the West Midlands.


He added: "The lead-in times for these projects are so long that if we start suggesting we haven't got the right answer the Government will wash its hands in glee and it will take another five years to get something planned."


To be fair, I've often thought that a second station in the centre of Brum would be a good idea. The site of the old Royal Mail distribution centre infron of millenium point would make an ideal place for a station.

it might be a good idea to have aterminus station like manc picc int he eastside.......... failing that i recon a that snow hill should be rebuilt and reconected to the national network.........

New rail station is 'unwanted distraction' Dec 9 2005
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

The possibility of a major new railway station being built in Birmingham is an unwanted distraction and could delay the £350 million redevelopment of New Street Station, business leaders have warned.

West Midlands Business Transport Group chairman Jerry Blackett said the new station plan, which is being considered by the Department for Transport and has the backing of Virgin West Coast, would give the Government a golden opportunity to refuse to fund the long-awaited New Street scheme.

Mr Blackett said the DfT's latest proposal was based on claims that a redeveloped New Street would not have enough capacity to cope with demand for rail use and it would be cheaper to build a new station on a brownfield site.

The suggestion was untrue because the New Street project would include an option to add a tunnelled track, significantly increasing the number of trains able to use the station, he said.

Mr Blackett warned against fuelling a perception that a redeveloped New Street would not meet the rail requirements of the West Midlands.


He added: "The lead-in times for these projects are so long that if we start suggesting we haven't got the right answer the Government will wash its hands in glee and it will take another five years to get something planned."


There seems to be no end to this pathetic charade is there? Let's be brutally frank shall we? Regardless of ANY fancy new-fangled plans they may have, one fact remains clear: New Street Station bloody fucking tossing twatting c***ing well NEEDS to be redeveloped NO MATTER FUCKING WHAT ANYWAY as it is such a bastard eyesore and a blight on the cityscape. Redevelopment of this station is not a case of a "feasibility" (that these fucking fannying TIMEWASTING twats in their luxury office suites are so eager to keep having us believe it is) - it is an absolute unequivocal PRIORITY. This "other" station proposal that they are now once again bandying about (having already promised that they will reject it on the grounds of....yup...feasibility...only a couple of years ago) could nevertheless STILL be built as another interchange point but must NOT be considered as a replacement for New Street in any way - unlike, say, in Antwerp in Belgium where their BERCHEM station just on the edge of the city centre functions rather like a Clapham Junction interchange railhead where many lines converge, but has a spur line feeding into the - now newly redeveloped and expanded - CENTRAAL terminus where very frequent trains continue into anyway. The difference being Antwerp Centraal Station is a dead end stop whilst Birmingham New Street is a through station.

It seems like - as I have long suspected - the government and Network Rail do not have any fucking idea at all about just exactly how to address this ongoing problem at Birmingham New Street and thus seem quite happy to constantly clutch at straws and keep coming up with endless pathetically ridiculous and unworkable suggestions of new stations or whatever else and use this as a cover up for their own appalling lack of foresight and commitment to addressing and providing a permanent solution to the true problem that has been prevailing for far too long now. There is no other way of looking at it but this - New Street Station has long become an unwanted millstone around their own necks and they are now coming up with ever increasingly desperate measures to try and wriggle out of focusing on THIS problem alone. They are an embarrassment to all the people of Birmingham and the rest of the midlands for that matter. It beggars belief as to how these people can still hold down their positions - let alone be so stupidly blinkered and ignorant.

Brick hurled through tram window
Dec 13, 2005
Two passengers were injured when louts hurled a brick through the window of a tram in West Bromwich. The window was smashed on the tram as it entered West Bromwich Central station.

Two girls were hurt when the Midland Metro tram, which was packed with shoppers, was attacked at 5.45pm on Saturday.

Local journalist Anne Alexander said she was on the tram at the time. "I could see that a couple of girls appeared to be slightly injured after being showered in glass," she said.

It is believed that police officers returning from the West Bromwich Albion match were on the tram.

"They leapt off the tram and ran down the line," said Miss Alexander from Friar Park, Wednesbury. "It was a dreadful shock but I understand that no-one was seriously injured."

Phil Bateman, spokesman for Travel Midland Metro, said: "Incidents of these sorts put passenger lives at risk.

"I would urge anyone who knows any information that will help trace the people who threw the brick to contact British Transport Police or their own local police station."

The attack follows a brick-throwing incident on Thursday in Rowley Regis when a bus driver was injured.

whos come up with the stupid new timtable, pasangers from stechford acn only go as far as birmingham international now and have to change trains sometimes having to wait for another train its just stupid it all down to this stupid wallsal service

There seems to be no end to this pathetic charade is there? Let's be brutally frank shall we? Regardless of ANY fancy new-fangled plans they may have, one fact remains clear: New Street Station bloody fucking tossing twatting c***ing well NEEDS to be redeveloped NO MATTER FUCKING WHAT ANYWAY as it is such a bastard eyesore and a blight on the cityscape...

I agree wholeheartedly - it is not a case of whether New St needs redeveloping or not - it absolutely does!

A recent update tells me the following:

- They are studying the effects on the rail network while reconstruction is undertaken.
- They are doing all the envrionmental studies.
- They are ironing out all the legal issues.
- They are taking on board the requests of the new owners of the Palisades and incorporating more, and better, retail.
- They are redesigning the station a little.

- Planning is expected to go in sometime in the spring.
- Not all the funds have been secured.

Now, the government seems to have been listening to Birmingham recently so I would expect they won't disappoint us when we request cash, especially when we link the tram in with the train station, giving us true integrated transport.

:)

So what do you think'll happen next, a 2 year feasabilty study into a 65 Billion Underground direct route to London Euston?

^^Quite possibly :)

I forgot to mention that it seems that the towers are going to be in the planning application but will not be built when the station is. I would guess therefore that this means they will appoint a developer to do those separately, but it is early doors yet.

Wednesday 14 December 2005 11:33
Department for Transport (West Midlands)

GOVERNMENT INVESTS TO IMPROVE LOCAL TRANSPORT IN THE WEST MIDLAND


People in the West Midlands will benefit from £188million to improve local transport in the region, Transport Secretary Alistair Darling announced today.

The investment is part of the Local Transport Capital Settlement given to local authorities each year to help them deliver transport improvements in local communities.

The money will fund a range of improvements including new road safety measures, better street lighting, road maintenance, park and ride facilities, and cycle lanes.

This year's investment delivers funding for 2006/07. Part of the money is awarded to local authorities according to their performance in delivering better transport and on the quality of their plans to improve transport over the next five years. The 16 authorities with the best plans and the 33 best delivering authorities have received a boost in funding to reward their performance.

Alistair Darling said:

"To put right decades of under investment, the Government has been very clear about the need to provide investment year on year in transport.

"Over the last five years, we allocated more than £8billion to deliver local transport improvements across the country which saw a reduction in road casualties, an improvement in local road maintenance and better public transport in our towns and cities.

"Today's investment will benefit passengers, motorists and local businesses across the country. This money will deliver better infrastructure for buses, improved road safety, more highway maintenance and sustainable transport measures.

"The best achieving councils have again benefited from their good performance with extra money which will enable them to build on their success."

The Department has also issued indicative funding levels to local authorities for the other four years of the second transport plan period, to assist effective and realistic forward planning.

NOTES TO EDITORS
Today's investment is part of £1.6bn nationally which includes - £672m for highways capital maintenance, £547m for smaller transport improvement schemes as well as £209m for major schemes which have previously been approved and announced.

£200m funding for further major schemes, including more funding allocated for 2006/07, will be made after the receipt of regional advice early next year.

The first Local Transport Plans (LTPs) were submitted in 2000 by all English local transport authorities outside London, containing an integrated transport strategy for their area and a costed programme of measures to improve local transport over the period 2001/02-2005/06. Provisional second LTPs (covering the period 2006/07-2010/11) were submitted by local authorities in July 2005. Final versions of these plans will be submitted to DfT by March 2006.

The attached table shows the 2006/07 allocations for each of the local transport authorities. Full details of individual Local Authority LTP allocations throughout England will be available on the Department's website at http://www.dft.gov.uk

Funding allocations for the West Midlands:


Area £000s Integrated Highways Block Sub Committed Grand
Transport Capital Total Major Total
Maintenance Schemes
Herefordshire, 2673 7802 10475 10475
County of
Shropshire 4476 13859 18335 209 18544
Staffordshire 6059 15353 21412 2637 24049
Stoke-on-Trent 4228 1728 5956 5956
Telford and 2259 1808 4067 4067
Wrekin
Warwickshire 4365 9080 13445 2271 15716
West Midlands 42367 24582 66949 29328 96277
Worcestershire 4081 8696 12777 12777
West Midlands 70508 82908 153416 34445 187861







Some examples of planned projects that we expect this money to fund include:

West Midlands

Centro's ongoing £10m per annum programme of Bus Showcase improvements throughout the West Midlands' Metropolitan Area will continue to improve bus journey times and reliability

Following the successful completion of the Blackheath Bypass scheme, cycle routes linking Blackheath, Old Hill and Cradley Heath will be developed by Dudley MBC.

Shropshire

Shropshire CC plan to spend £182,000 in 2006/07 and almost £1 million over the next 5 years, on their school travel programme. This programme includes encouraging the development of quality School Travel Plans, implementing Safer Routes to Schools improvements and providing cycle training, pedestrian training and road safety education.

Worcestershire

Worcestershire CC plan to spend £525,000 in 2006/07 and around £1.5 million over the next 5 years, developing "Project Express". The aim of this project is to introduce a network of express bus services within Worcester linking a network of Park & Ride sites within key destinations across the city, supported by connecting local "taxibus" services and the implementation of appropriate passenger transport infrastructure.

Warwickshire

Local Transport Plan funding is contributing £1.8m to a £4.4m park and ride scheme which will open in Stratford-upon-Avon in 2006 providing parking for over 700 cars and a 10 minute frequency bus service to the town centre.

Stoke on Trent

Stoke on Trent propose to develop and implement a new bus strategy over the next 5 years using Local Transport Plan funding. Measures are likely to include the development of Punctuality Improvement Partnerships with bus operators; and the expansion of the Urban Traffic Control scheme to provide bus priority measures at more locations and real-time information for passengers.




Decisions about these schemes are for the local authority and further details on these and other schemes are available from them.

Issued on behalf of the Department for Transport by Government News Network, West Midlands.

Regional news releases issued by the Government News Network can be viewed at http://www.gnn.gov.uk/gnn

Department for Transport
Great Minster House
76 Marsham Street
London
SW1P 4DR

Client ref WM2465/05

GNN ref 126194P

Responding to the recent decision by the Government to refuse funding for new tram schemes in Leeds, Merseyside and South Hampshire, Cllr Mark Dowd, Chair of the PTA special interest group (which brings together leading councillors from all seven of the UK’s PTAs), said:

‘The Government has said that it is not ‘anti-tram’ and that ‘the benefits of light rail are not in doubt.’ We share that view. Light rail and modern trams remain the right solution on some of our busiest urban corridors. They have a proven record of attracting motorists out of their cars and of shaping and stimulating urban regeneration. That’s why light rail is a key element in the transport strategies of successful cities across Europe and the rest of the World.’

‘However, after recent decisions we need to find a new way of developing and approving tram schemes, and we need the Government to be clearer and more consistent about what quality of public transport provision it wants to see - and is prepared to contribute to. It is a colossal waste of both professional and financial resources to spend upwards of ten years appraising and re-appraising schemes in exactly the way specified by the DfT, only to see them scrapped at the eleventh hour. The damage caused goes much wider than the loss of the scheme itself – wider transport and regeneration strategies have been based on the assumption that earlier Government approval for tram schemes means that those schemes will happen. Scrapping tram schemes at such a late stage leaves a big tear in the canvas of urban renewal. There is no adequate ‘Plan B’.’

‘The recent traumas over light rail schemes in our major cities have been an unhappy experience for everyone involved. Private sector confidence in financing and supplying the light rail sector is also damaged. To prevent a reoccurrence we hope we can now sit down with Government to find a way of ensuring that more UK cities can still benefit from light rail and modern trams through a faster, more affordable and more stable procurement and approval process.’

On a New Street-related tip: what I've been itching to know is this...... was the spelling of the Pallasades deliberate? I've never seen the word spelt like that - only Palisades.

Anyone care to enlighten us? :?

^^I haven't the foggiest - I've always wondered that too... maybe it is designed to invoke images of palladium?

Good news for Dudley but it's Birmingham that's holding things back.If the council doesn't sign soon the chance will be gone for a another year at least.Centro want to push both bids together.Anymore hanginging around and it will be just the Dudley extension.What a shower the present council is.




Agreement brings tram extension closer Dec 19 2005

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By Campbell Docherty, Transport Correspondent


A key agreement to extend the Midland Metro tram network will be reached today.

Funding, construction, operation and maintenance details of the £200 million Wednesbury to Brierley Hill extension project have now been formally agreed with Dudley Borough Council.

The seven mile tram line has already been given a provisional green light by the Government but must now wait until a similar agreement is reached with Birmingham City Council over the city centre extension before both schemes are sent to the Department for Transport for final funding approval.

Coun Roger Horton, from the West Midlands Passenger Transport Authority, which sets policy for executive Centro, said: "Signing this major agreement with Dudley cements the determination of both parties to deliver this important transport and regeneration project scheme to people in the Black Country as soon as possible."


One aspect of the agreement concerns Dudley Council's role as the local highway and planning authority.


For example, a 'design guide' has been approved to smooth the way for detailed aspects of the tram stops to receive planning permission.


"Removing as much risk and uncertainty as possible at this stage of the project will help is to keep the construction price lower and make sure everyone gets value for money," added Coun Horton (Lab Soho and Victoria).


The tramlines will run from Wednesbury, through Dudley and Merry Hill, to Brierley Hill with 13 easy-access stops, four of which are served by park and ride facilities.


New larger trams will be introduced on the line and will be able to complete the journey in only 23 minutes.


It is hoped the service will be up and running in 2011.


"This Metro extension running up through Castle Hill, Dudley and Brierley Hill is a very exciting prospect for local people," said Coun David Caunt (Con Sedgley), leader of Dudley Council.


"The extended line will not only make travelling around the area much easier and more convenient for everyone, providing an attractive alternative to the car, but it will also bring regeneration, jobs and other socio-economic benefits to this part of the the Black Country.


"I am extremely pleased to be signing this agreement with Centro, which brings such an important project even closer to reality."


There is doubt over how favourably the Government will look on the schemes, however. Three-quarters of the cost of both metro extensions would come from the DfT, which has recently gone cold on a number of tram schemes.


Overall cost of the two schemes, which have been planned for almost a decade, has spiralled by 74 per cent to £369 million in the past three years.

Here's another article on the Dudley extension.

Date: 16-Dec-05
Category: News : Midland Metro
Contact: Barton, Mik - mikbarton@centro.org.uk

Agreement sealed for Dudley town centre trams

A crucial agreement to extend the Midland Metro tram network through Dudley is to be finalised this week.

It means the ambitious £200m project is now one step closer to becoming reality. The route has been given the green light by the Government and public transport promoter Centro aims to submit the business case early next year.

Dudley Borough Council has now completed an agreement with Centro to define their respective roles in funding, construction, operation and maintenance of the 11km route from Wednesbury to Brierley Hill, via Dudley town centre and the Merry Hill Centre.

“Signing this major agreement with Dudley cements the determination of both parties to deliver this important transport and regeneration project scheme to people in the Black Country as soon as possible,” says Cllr Roger Horton, lead member for Metro on the West Midlands Passenger Transport Authority, which sets policy for Centro.

One aspect of the agreement concerns Dudley Council’s role as the local highway and planning authority. A design guide has been approved to smooth the way for detailed aspects of the tram stops to receive planning permission, for example. “Removing as much risk and uncertainty as possible at this stage of the project will help is to keep the construction price lower and make sure everyone gets value for money,” adds Cllr Horton.

Three-quarters of the cost would come from Government and current studies show the expansion of the Midland Metro is likely to deliver up to £2 of benefits for every £1 it invests. Local contributions have also been earmarked, with the lion’s share coming from the developers of sites along the route.

The tramlines will run from Wednesbury, through Dudley and Merry Hill, to Brierley Hill with 13 easy-access stops, four of which are served by park and ride facilities. New larger trams will be introduced on the line and will be able to complete the journey in only 23 minutes. It is hoped the service will be up and running in 2011.

On Monday (19 December), councillors representing both partners to the latest agreement, including the Leader of Dudley Council and Chairman of the Passenger Transport Authority will meet in Dudley town centre on the line of the proposed route to make the deal official.

“This Metro extension running up through Castle Hill, Dudley and Brierley Hill is a very exciting prospect for local people,” says Cllr David Caunt, Leader of Dudley Council. “The extended line will not only make travelling around the area much easier and more convenient for everyone, providing an attractive alternative to the car, but it will also bring regeneration, jobs and other socio-economic benefits to this part of the the Black Country. I am extremely pleased to be signing this agreement with Centro, which brings such an important project even closer to reality.”

A similar agreement between Centro and Sandwell Council was completed earlier this year and another is ready to be signed between Centro and Westfield, the owners of the Merry Hill Centre, in January.

Midland Metro line one, between Wolverhampton and Birmingham via West Bromwich, caters for over five million passengers a year and has become the region’s most reliable mode of public transport. The expansion plans also include a new line through the streets of central Birmingham to serve New Street Station, the main shopping centre, Broad Street, the ICC and Five Ways

great - i saw the official press photos for this story being taken on the way back from Merry Hell, im no doubt in the background. lol

Tram link deal now sealed
By Heather Loat
Dec 20, 2005
A major deal has been struck marking a massive step forward in plans for the £200 million rail link connecting Dudley to the Merry Hill Centre.

The Midland Metro extension, earmarked for 2011, will be a huge boost for the borough, bringing much needed investment and creating dozens of jobs.

Faith in the scheme has led to Merry Hill owners Westfield pumping a total of £35m into the project.

Council transport chiefs met Centro to shake hands on their part in the project, including pledging £100,000 funding to ensure the line can cross the proposed Brierley Hill bypass.

The 11 kilometre route has already been given the green light by the Government, and work is set to start in 2007.

The agreement sets out the council's role in the funding, construction, operation and maintenance of the line running from Wednesbury to Brierley Hill, via Dudley town centre and the Merry Hill Centre.

The tram route will have 13 stops, four of which will be served by park and ride facilities. New larger trams will be able to complete the journey in only 23 minutes.

Dudley Council spokesman Phil Parker confirmed the council would be providing the land for the tram line and sharing responsibility for its maintenance.

Council leader David Caunt said the deal represented a major move forward in bringing the much needed tram service to the town. "This Metro extension running up through Castle Hill, Dudley and Brierley Hill is a very exciting prospect for Dudley residents," said Councillor Caunt.

Lead member for Metro on the West Midlands Passenger Transport Authority, Councillor Roger Horton said it was an "important transport and regeneration scheme."

I read in the Mail a couple of days ago about the prospect of opening up the Moseley line to be very promising indeed. There are also plans to improve the points at Camp Hill, so trains can get into Moor St. To give you an idea of which line it is - if you drive into Brum on the Cov Road, it's the viaduct next to the Citroen garage near the Ibis hotel. When I lived in Balsall Heath about 10 yrs ago I said then, that the line should be re-opened and used again.
Another line to the south plus the planned additional stations at Dunlop / Castle Vale on the Water Orton line will give Brum a proper rail network at last.
Also, news of using New St as a more regular terminus for the Worcester service, because a lot of people using the Snow Hill line complain at having to walk to New St to change trains. Why they can't use Moor St and then walk to New St undercover through the Bullring is beyond me! I've always thought that's pretty amazing, to be able to walk between 2 stations about half a mile apart without being exposed to the elements!

they need to sort out the cove to brum line as well

On the transport note there's something about the Coach station moving to another site in digbeth in the post. It suggest they will move temporarily while the other site is made over... Has anyone seen Ken's design ?

Here is the article...

Coach operator wants temporary site for Digbeth Dec 30 2005




By Campbell Docherty, Transport Correspondent


National Express wants to relocate coach services to a temporary site while it begins rebuilding the infamous Digbeth coach station.

A planning application will be submitted today to Birmingham City Council (BCC) for the move to Oxford Street, directly opposite the existing site.

The move will maintain coach operations during the redevelopment of the much criticised coach station - for which noted architect Ken Shuttle-worth has been working on designs since being appointed last year.

If planning permission is granted, the site bounded by Oxford Street, Coventry Street and Meriden Street - previously part of the Volkswagen garage and showroom room - will be known as Birmingham coach station.

A short-term lease would be taken on site with the intention of moving back on to the redeveloped main site by mid-2008.




Story continues

ADVERTISEMENT


Marc Sangster, director of strategy at National Express, said: "The planning application marks the start of an exciting time for National Express in Birmingham.


"We are delighted to have found a site which has a great location and will provide excellent temporary facilities, better than that currently offered at the existing site.


"The move to a temporary site will help to confirm our intentions to build a new world class coach station that the people of Birmingham can be proud of."


National Express will also be holding an open public exhibition, at a venue to be confirmed, on Friday January 20 (10am-8pm) and Saturday January 21 (9am-4am) where people can look at the proposals.


Architect Shuttleworth, whose brief is to design a new "world class" station, is best known for the London 'Gherkin'.


The redevelopment is intended to assist with the regeneration of the Irish Quarter.


Mr Sangster added: "We will submit an outline planning application for Digbeth Coach Station to BCC in early 2006.


"It is our intention that the redevelopment will be complete and re-opened by mid-2008."

Read this earlier good to hear of the progress, what is confusing me is the temporary site in Digbeth, i was under the impression this site was where Smithfield 1 the office development designed by Associated Architects was going http://www.associated-architects.co.uk/files/smithfield.pdf

Anyone know whats going on?

"National Express will also be holding an open public exhibition, at a venue to be confirmed, on Friday January 20 (10am-8pm) and Saturday January 21 (9am-4am) where people can look at the proposals."

well i guess thats when we will see the design

I suppose the Smithfield 1 will start after 2008, when the temp station's done it's job.

"National Express will also be holding an open public exhibition, at a venue to be confirmed, on Friday January 20 (10am-8pm) and Saturday January 21 (9am-4am) where people can look at the proposals."

well i guess thats when we will see the design

Is this not for the temporary home? Might have to have a little look at this :)

Well, the sooner this gets moving the better, the existing coach station justseemsto look drabber and drabber by the day!!

I have only lived in B/ham a few years abut I understand tehre used to be a bus station in the bull ring, I am presuming that this was just for local services? Does anyone know if there are any plans to reinstate a bus staion anywherelse? Just seems wierd that B/ham does not have one, admittedly you prob don't need one for local TWM services, but at least for longer local services? Most otehr cities have bus stations, all B/ham has is that glofified cow shed in Digbeth!!

Tetsuro

The bus station that you refer to was the Midland Red station and was situated under TheBullring/at the back of New St station on Station Street. If you think Digebeth coach station is grim then you are lucky not to remember this place. On a saturday it was like a smoke pit, with buses coming and going every few seconds as opposed to the every few minutes at Digbeth. The entrance was on Station St and the exit on Egdbaston St. The structure is still there but is now the service area for Bullring.

CH

Look what i found :)

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c258/cargohold/busstation.jpg

i remember it being awful...my nan taking me there wen she was lokoing after me..... used to always scare me as a child thinking someone would take me!

used to use that place all the time as a kid and a teenager.

It was a shit hole!
(but it was always an exciting place to be when i was young, used to love visiting the city centre!)

Transport puzzle
::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Producing a list of transport priorities for the entire West Midlands region was always going to be problematic.


It is clear that the worst knots of congestion exist where the greatest concentration of people want to go. But there is no doubt too that access to public transport and the condition of roads in more rural areas is often largely ignored.


Squaring that circle has fallen to the West Midlands Regional Assembly - a move by which the Government has palmed off the thorny issues on a partially non-elected body with, at best, blurry accountability to the taxpayer.


However, it has also managed to retain central control through the prioritisation framework it has imposed.


Benefit-cost ratios have long been the bane of public transport schemes - see the various troubled attempts to extend the Midland Metro network in recent years - and it is undoubtedly true that they inherently benefit road schemes.


To the casual observer it may seem that if a large number of people are benefited in a small way - many drivers given a small time-saving by a bypass - then fair's fair. But this does not take into account wider environmental impacts among other mitigating factors.


It is also arguable whether a bypass around Shrewsbury, for example, can truly be considered a scheme of true regional importance.


There is no doubt road schemes have an important place but there is clear evidence of the environmental lobby's point in the final list of 25 schemes.


Twelve involve road building and a further five are road improvement schemes which, apart from anything else, hardly chimes with stated Government policy.


Successive Transport Secretaries have repeated John Prescott's assertion you cannot build your way out of road congestion. Well, quite... so why do we keep doing it

Tetsuro

The bus station that you refer to was the Midland Red station and was situated under TheBullring/at the back of New St station on Station Street. If you think Digebeth coach station is grim then you are lucky not to remember this place. On a saturday it was like a smoke pit, with buses coming and going every few seconds as opposed to the every few minutes at Digbeth. The entrance was on Station St and the exit on Egdbaston St. The structure is still there but is now the service area for Bullring.

CH

Look what i found :)

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c258/cargohold/busstation.jpg



Yeah that bus station was so fucking grim it made New Street station's platforms look like the Eden project domes in comparison! And it never got any refurbishment right up until the day the old Bull Ring came down.....that was the worst thing.

That's not true, they use to paint the ceiling every few years, Didn't clean it, just painted it..

Was a grim and depressing place...

the designs for the new coach station are being showcased in town today and shame to say its terrible,

I don't think they are the new coach station Pirlo, I think they are for the temporary one whilst the new one is being built. I could be wrong though.

Where are they being shown?

???? needing pictures!!!!!

the designs for the new coach station are being showcased in town today and shame to say its terrible,where?

Public transport numbers increase
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
More people use the bus, train or tram during the morning rush hour than cars according to a public transport body.
Centro, the West Midlands public transport promotion group, says its latest figures show more than 29.3m people used the train last year.

The growth in rail use means public transport is now the dominant mode of travel during the Birmingham rush hour.

The group is now calling on the government to give greater investment to expand the network.

The number of train journeys taken in the West Midlands has grown by 7% according to Centro's Annual Statistical Report.

Passenger levels on local services grew faster than on the long-distance services.

Shoppers increase

Outside the rush hour, the number of people arriving at Birmingham's city centre rail stations has also increased.

More than 71,000 passengers use local services and the Chiltern Railways services on a typical week day.

Shopping developments such as the Bull Ring are thought to be partly behind the increase.

The figures also show that 30% of rush hour journeys into Wolverhampton are now made by public transport and more than a third of commuters travelling into West Bromwich use the bus, train or tram.

The number of commuters using park and ride schemes is also increasing but the use of buses has fallen, although the West Midlands still has the highest level of bus use in any metropolitan area.

Public transport numbers increase
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
More people use the bus, train or tram during the morning rush hour than cars according to a public transport body.
Centro, the West Midlands public transport promotion group, says its latest figures show more than 29.3m people used the train last year.

The growth in rail use means public transport is now the dominant mode of travel during the Birmingham rush hour.

The group is now calling on the government to give greater investment to expand the network.

The number of train journeys taken in the West Midlands has grown by 7% according to Centro's Annual Statistical Report.

Passenger levels on local services grew faster than on the long-distance services.

Shoppers increase

Outside the rush hour, the number of people arriving at Birmingham's city centre rail stations has also increased.

More than 71,000 passengers use local services and the Chiltern Railways services on a typical week day.

Shopping developments such as the Bull Ring are thought to be partly behind the increase.

The figures also show that 30% of rush hour journeys into Wolverhampton are now made by public transport and more than a third of commuters travelling into West Bromwich use the bus, train or tram.

The number of commuters using park and ride schemes is also increasing but the use of buses has fallen, although the West Midlands still has the highest level of bus use in any metropolitan area.


Yeah - that's all very well, and we constantly keep getting these news articles going on about how passenger numbers are soaring above capacity, but do we honestly think this will influence the powers that be any quicker to moving their fucking arses on expanding / rebuilding New Street any time sooner (including any hope of extra platforms or indeed a deep level underground commuter station to serve the Cross City/Suburban routes), quadrupling the Wolverhampton-Coventry corridor, promoting and expanding the suburban rail routes and reopening other disused lines, getting the restored Moor Street connected to the main through route to London, further upgrading the Midland Metro, finally getting the much delayed new coach station project up and running, etc etc....

As if!

Well said Martin!

They seem to think the more people crammed onto aged Trains and buses the better.

MG - it's so so so obviously right in what you're saying. The money needed to do all these projects would be quadrupled back in revenue if they just got on with it.

Reports:

Trades unions are working on a scheme to challenge the PFI for BCC's highways maintenance.

There are 2 bidders for the £2b PFI and the unions are working away at providing an alternative that will ensure the workers will stay employed by BCC and not transferred to the PFI joint ventures.

Whats the score with the coach station then.. Designs were due this week..

Council chief 'blocked Sir Digby' Jan 28 2006
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

By Campbell Docherty


A personal feud risks robbing Birmingham of its best possible advocate in the fight to redevelop New Street Station, it was claimed last night.

Mike Whitby, leader of Birmingham City Council, stands accused of vetoing the appointment of Sir Digby Jones, director general of the CBI and a former Birmingham lawyer, as an unpaid "champion" of the crucial £350 million project after a public spat.

The role would involve lobbying central government for the remaining unsecured funds - thought to be about £100 million - to complete the long-awaited upgrade of the city's eyesore rail hub.


It is understood Sir Digby was approached to become the scheme's "champion" by a member of the council-led steering group working up plans for the station rebuild.


According to sources close to the CBI head, he agreed to take up the role only to be later told Coun Whitby had vetoed his appointment.


Both men were staying tight-lipped over the alleged snub last nightfri but friends of Sir Digby expressed their outrage.


One said: "Digby, I am sure, would have have loved to help Birmingham try and sort out New Street, something he has been quite vocal about, but, Whitby has apparently made it clear that will happen over his dead body.


"It is absolutely ridiculous. With Digby's contacts, particularly in Government, he would have been the ideal person to drive the project forward and make it happen.


"My understanding is that he was very happy to take on the role even though he frankly does not need it - he has job offers coming out of his ears.


"People may say 'what has Whitby got to do with this anyway' but with the city being a major stakeholder and likely also to be a major funder of what happens it seems he has a veto.


"If Digby is not wanted, then so be it. There are plenty of other things for him to be doing."


Contacted by The Birmingham Post in Switzerland, where he is currently attending the World Economic Forum, Sir Digby declined to comment on the row.


The two figures became embroiled in a public spat last year when the CBI head accused the Birmingham administration of talking too much and achieving too little.


Sir Digby laid the blame for delay in redeveloping New Street at the feet of the coalition, adding: "As a city, Birmingham has to pee or get off the pot."


Coun Whitby (Con Harborne) responded by labelling a number of high profile critics, including Sir Digby, of being self-appointed Jeremiahs helping to reinforce prejudicial stereotypes about Birmingham.


The council leader declined to comment on the allegations and refused to be drawn on the names of any candidates being considered for the New Street role.


He said: "The steering group has been working extremely hard over the last 18 months to move the New Street project forward and will continue to do so for as long as it takes.


"At some time in the future we will be asking people to get involved as champions of this project and we will be considering inviting people in due course."


It is believed Sir Digby would have the time to take on the New Street role because he plans to step down from the CBI in the summer.


He is likely to take three months off and then take up a series of job offers from industry, including advisory roles with an international dimension rather than non-executive board posts.


Former deputy chairman of professional sector group Birmingham Forward, Andrew Sparrow, claims Coun Whitby forced his resignation after he also criticised the administration's record.


He said: "It would not surprise me at all if this happened because it is exactly the way Mike Whitby acted with me.


"He appears to be unable to take criticism well and reacted in this kind of visceral way in my case.


"If it is true that Sir Digby has been sidelined it would be to the detriment of Birmingham. He is our best suit frankly.


"He is an international figure and is hugely respected in Government circles. If we want to put our best foot forward on New Street, a vital issue for the city, Digby is by far the best option."

Metro snippet.
http://www.gillespies.co.uk/services/Urban_Design/Urban_Transportation/Centro_Midland_Metro_City_Centre_Extension_Birmingham/

Click on this link to find a leaflet distibuted by Centro some time ago (late eighties or early nineties )championing the tunnel version of the Metro.Interestingly there was to be a travelator connecting Moor St and New St stations (check short yellow line at the bottom of the map).

Sorry ,here's the link.
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/rastro/topic_birmingham_tramsubway.htm

That is the £2bn question as the Politics Show reveals the likely cost of building extra motorway capacity in the congested M6 corridor between Birmingham and Manchester.

There are two possible options: either widen the existing M6 to an eight-lane super highway.

Or construct a brand new motorway parallel to the M6, as an extension to Britain's first Toll Motorway, the M6 Toll which bypasses Birmingham.

Either way, the new route would run from the northern end of the M6 Toll near Cannock in Staffordshire to just outside Knutsford in Cheshire.

And the cost of each of the proposals is about the same: £2bn, according to our Transport Correspondent Peter Plisner.

And even then drivers would still be expected to pay an additional toll for the privilege of using it.

Either of the plans would take over a decade to plan and construct.

But even before any decisions have been taken, the impact is being felt already at Penkridge in South Staffordshire.

Homeowner William Blower tells the Politics Show that property values in the area are falling because of the threat of a motorway just yards from his house.

Local farmer Philip Robinson says his recent investment in a new free range chicken unit will go to waste if the plans go ahead.

But the project has powerful backing. Peter has been talking to the Transport Secretary Alistair Darling about his vision for curing our motorway blues.

And members of the North Staffordshire Chamber of Commerce tell him the scheme is vital to deal with costly delays on the region's roads, where local and long distance traffic converge in perpetual gridlock.

Peter will b

When the old bus station was demolished(with the old Bull ring) were there any plans for a replacement bus station to be built in the city? I remember going to get my bus home in the old bus station, (after shopping in the market halls of the Bull ring which were coveniently alongside), and whilst it was definitely a grimy place it was still very accessible located in the city centre, and undercover.

from
http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/mail/news/page.cfm?objectid=16671275&method=full&siteid=50002


London grabs Brum rail cash

Feb 4 2006

By David Bell, Birmingham Mail


MILLIONS of pounds earmarked to rebuild Birmingham's dingy New Street Station has been moved to help London build for the OIympics, it was revealed today.

As a result of the cash grab, it could be another decade before work starts to redevelop the overcrowded main line station, labelled Britain's worst.

West Midlands MPs are being mobilised to spearhead protests against the spending freeze imposed on an image-improving project which has become Birmingham's top priority.

"We have been knocked by the Government because all the available capital is going to build Olympic facilities for London," said the city's deputy leader Paul Tilsley.

"Even if the decision was reversed now you are talking about a minimum of seven years to see the start of the reconstruction of New Street Station. The need for investment in this busy rail hub is desperate - it is a run-down and neglected facility which projects a bad image of the West Midlands in general and Birmingham in particular.

"Everybody in Birmingham recognises the importance of this New Street Station rebuild and hopefully as a result of the pressure it will climb up the ladder of Government priority."

The council itself has guaranteed £2.5 million extra this year to progress design work on the project in the hope of a Whitehall change of mind.

But new Government spending plans reveal it will not be until 2014 - long after the Olympics - that the bulk of the £130 million of public money allocated to the project will be spent. Another £51 million is not allocated until 2016.

"The dream of a rebuilt New Street Station is slipping," said Coun Tilsley. "I wish we were looking at a more simple solution, but it is now looking like a very long-term project for Birmingham."

WHAT THE FUCK!!!!!!

You say it Woodhousen ... assuming it's accurate and not just cheap journalism ...

I sense a civil war looming
:guns1:

I hope this is some kind of sick joke.

nope i bet you its true, in the last few weeks all we have heard about the new street development is negative stuff

We can only hope it's a cheap dig a central government, but it wouldn't be surprising if it were true.
Civil war wouldn't be far wrong. The problem is us Brummies are so used to this kind of disappointment and betrayal we wouldn't say or do anything. Maybe that's why funding has been withdrawn in the past and why we almost half expect it in the future.

And the Liverpool Tram, and the Manchester line extention, Sheffield and Leeds Trams, UK money, all going to East London, and the Bloody olympics.

The Birmingham metro extension might get the thumbs-up ... the southern terminus has been moved to West Ham ;)

I suspect it is (not necessarily cheap) journalism aimed at the government. The clamour will grow and the DfT will be forced to make a statment. If they do and it is not to our liking, all hell will break loose. I suspect they won't though. I suspect the money has been found and things will be announced this spring/summer.

If they try to delay things, I say BCC should close New St on safety grounds and cripple the rail network for a day. See how quick they'll find the money then.

i have written a letter to the mail stating how if this is indeed true then this is one of the most short sighted judgements by the government. i will to be very supprised if it is totally true but birmingham new street is well to advance for the governemnt to pull out its funding just like this. either the council will ahve allowed for such a thing or this has been drawn into the plan and the public has not been told. however, they can not just pull out.

however, as bio states, all hell will break loose. i too would suppost BCC closing New street for some select days and to encourage both central trains and virgin xc who are both based at new street to go on strike. it would cripple the entire country.

i have also stated that for the governemnt to consider not investing in ns until after the olympics is stupidly short sighted as in an age of terror, the governemnt would be potential doing the terrorists jobs with the potential for disaster to strike, esp when you consider it is no beyond reason to suspect during the olympics, pax levels at ns will b at an all time high!!!!!

heres an idea of all the services that would be effected if the closure of new street ever occured. you can see what range this would cause.....

the north east would be practically cut off from the south west and although the north west would be able to get to the south east via the lichfield line, the increased capacity would not be able to be accom..... pure chaos

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/woodhousen/newstreet.jpg

heres an idea of all the services that would be effected if the closure of new street ever occured. you can see what range this would cause.....

the north east would be practically cut off from the south west and although the north west would be able to get to the south east via the lichfield line, the increased capacity would not be able to be accom..... pure chaos

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/woodhousen/newstreet.jpg

why dont we mobilise and block new street on a sunday afternoon thru monday morn...that way we will catch all the northern mps plus shut the system down....then just simply say...build us a new station or this will happen without the need for intervention

Can't say Im not surprised by this sudden change in financial priorities. Birmingham has been shafted by the "Invisible Force" that is London on at least 1 or 2 ocassions in the past:-

Millenniuum Dome
National Stadium (65% of the UK public voted in a BBC poll supporting Brum)

And there's always been the problem of funding expansion of NS in the past as well, yet any spare cash to introduce four tracks going into NS as opposed to just two have been diverted towards various rail projects in the SE serving the Channel Tunnel.

So it should come as no surprise that yet more allocated funding for the regions has been rediverted to the SE. Is it any wonder southerners see the provinces as a cultural backwater when we don't ever seem to get a fair share of the national loot both in terms of government money and national lottery proceeds

Millenniuum Dome

well thank god we never got that

lets just see what comes of it......

Millenniuum Dome

well thank god we never got that

WE would have made it work.

WE would have delivered the National Stadium on time and on budget (and half the budget).

WE are the key to getting train delays down.

Are WE the only ones who can see that?

You do all obviously realise that BCC have no control whatsoever over NS, and as such would have no way of 'closing it down'.

They would not even have to power to blockade the entrances to the station, they simply don't have that type of power - the police would move any protestors on if there became an issue of accessing the staton.

There is also obviously no desperate need for the trains to stop there, they could keep going and have the staff changes at a different station.

You do all obviously realise that BCC have no control whatsoever over NS, and as such would have no way of 'closing it down'.

They would not even have to power to blockade the entrances to the station, they simply don't have that type of power - the police would move any protestors on if there became an issue of accessing the staton.

There is also obviously no desperate need for the trains to stop there, they could keep going and have the staff changes at a different station.

Agreed. But BCC could close the station on public safety grounds. ;) It's been done at least twice before. Too many people.

Yes, but that would not stop the trains passing through.

It would have a large impact on those traveling to / from Brum, but virtually no impact on through travel.

Also, I suspect they'd leave themselves open to litegation from National Rail, I suspect if they could not justify the closure on saftey grounds they'd end up with one large bill.

Imagine if BCC closed down another private company on ficticious saftey grounds, the legal companies would have a field day.

Indeed, but BCC can and will close BNS on safety grounds, usually during the summer. I have been in the station when it should have been closed but wasn't. I suspect one of the reasons they extended the foyer of the station was to give a more nominal capacity (which is good in theory but in reality people don't wait in the foyer - they wait on the concourse or on the platforms. As a ball park figure, I would say BNS could close a dozen times a year if not more.

It would have a huge impact on through travel because BNS is one of the main connection points as well as having a lot of people embarking/alighting. If people cannot change/get off at BNS they will have to make connections or other arrangements from other stations. It would be pure chaos.

Not that I want this, but I think that BCC and others should start flexing their muscles to prove a point if we don't get our money.

We should all write Alistair Darling a lovely letter to show our feelings on this (I think I'll draft mine this evening) :)

the dday the closed BNS last year caused chaos on the rail network. if i remember correctly they only shut it for 2 hours but it took das for them delays to correct themselves. its not a case of trans finding another routes but trains are almost alloted slots on the track. the day it is closed down, all the trains on route to BNS had to go back and turn aroung/find a new route blocking trains that were going no-where near BNS.......

...anyway can we just hold our horses just a little bit. this news has oly appear ONCE in the birmingham mail. this is a massive story. if true then it would appear alot more everywher.....birmingham post, midlands today....etc.......

millenium dome
WE would have made it work.

umm that thing was never gonna be a success, from negative preess covergae to the HUGE costs, and excatly what would we have stuck in it?? it would never because a huge toursist attraction

WE would have delivered the National Stadium on time and on budget (and half the budget).

umm, how do you know that they would have, half the budget because it would have been less ambtious,ugly and cheap,

WE are the key to getting train delays down.

Are WE the only ones who can see that?

agree with you there that one billion pound tunnel is badly needed

millenium dome
WE would have made it work.

umm that thing was never gonna be a success, from negative preess covergae to the HUGE costs, and excatly what would we have stuck in it?? it would never because a huge toursist attraction

WE would have delivered the National Stadium on time and on budget (and half the budget).

umm, how do you know that they would have, half the budget because it would have been less ambtious,ugly and cheap,

WE are the key to getting train delays down.

Are WE the only ones who can see that?

agree with you there that one billion pound tunnel is badly needed

Part of the MD cost overrun was because it was in London, and the fact that politicians were only just up the road meant they could meddle a lot. And we didn't propose a Dome - it was the Millennium Exhibition and the NEC are experts at those ;)

Again, it's the London issue, and the money provided by Sport England for athletics would have been spent on athletics and not football. IMO the competitions for architecure and location should have been run separately so the best location and best design could have been selected. Take away the arch and Wembley doesn't look much different to any other stadium, although it will have a better atmosphere - it has the enclosed feel of Millennium Stadium in Cardiff. The Brum bid had a budget about half of Wembley, and Wembley has overrun once, with Multiplex expected to take a £45 million hit on it.

As for New St - not just the £1b tunnel, but the entire station needs rebuilding/modelling. I am not convinced by the tunnel option - the station is going to be remodelled to get light to the subterranean platforms and what are they suggesting? A tunnel with subterranean platforms :?

Fucking pathetic - but SOOOOOOOOOO PREDICTABLE.

Makes you wish deep down in your heart that London NEVER won the fucking Olympics. Cos this is EXACTLY the sort of scenario we could have foreseen. Whilst we're at it (and Alistair Fucking Darling should take note) how about ripping up ALL the new tracks and signalling laid down in the West Midlands and North West of England over the last 15 years of Railtrack blunders - transport them ALL down to London, rip up all the existing station buildings too (including the present New Street) - and rebuild them all in London Stratford just for the the benefit of the Olympics. And whilst we're at it - dig up all the tarmac from all the motorways north of Watford Gap - old and new (onmcluding the M6 toll road) and re-lay them all in East London to serve the Londoners and everybody that will be descending on the capital for the 2012 celebrations. And freeze any further money for new schools, hospitals, community projects, housing schemes, training and leisure facilities...and use that dosh to generously supply London for the Olympics. Honestly, the sort of pathetic shortsightedness is verging on a huge national joke. I mean, how many more U-turns must we see from the fucking government or transport secretaries before the first word of any credibility concerning the New Street fiasco is made official? How many more? How fucking useless is this fucking government? Truly they are coming close to rivalling if not surpassing John Major's conservatives as the most pathetically inept and backward-looking bunch of wankers we have ever had the continuing misfortune to see in office. This is effectively another death knell for the city to bring its station up to the standards that every other fucking major city terminus in the UK has long enjoyed.

Maybe the only thing for it is for a terrorist bomb to hit New Street station - I know that sounds really sick but - seriously - think about it - it will be THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN SHAKE THE BASTARD GOVERNMENT OUT OF THEIR FUCKING COMPLACENCY AND REGIONAL FAVOURITISM TO GET OFF THEIR FUCKING ARSES AND ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING WITH REGARD TO INVESTING HUGE SUMS OF MUCH NEEDED CAPITAL TO REBUILDING THE STATION FROM SCRATCH. We all know how they only act in a knee-jerk way once the damage has been done - whichever way you look at it - the only way we will ever see the government and Network Rail spending a billion on rebuilding New Street is if somebody like Al Qaeda reduced it a smoking shattered ruin first - injuring/ killing loads of people in the process. That's how the government work - only acting when it's too late and AFTER the shit has hit the fan. This is fucking true - don't anyone try to deny it. :bash: :bleep: :bleep: :rant: :rant:

This news makes me so fucking angry. It's things like this that make me hate and resent London cos as ever it gets everything - even the money that is supposed to be rightfully allocated to other cities to help regenerate its key infrastructure projects. The way things are going the system in the Midlands will grind to a complete halt and no matter how many fucking amazing fast tilting bastard trains the Government wish to have in service, if they have to navigate the bottleneck that is the New Street area they will soon realise the sheer foolishness and gross stupidity of their lack of judgement and foresight. After all - it's all very well talking about making train journeys faster - but I take it the fucking powers that be conveniently overlook the GLARING fact that many cross country servivces have to - by sheer lack of choice - use New Street as a crucial connecting hub? How the fuck do they expect to have a fully reliable and fast modern network up and running by whatever pathetically over optimistic timescale they set out, when they conveniently overlook the strategic importance of the biggest/busiest interchange station right in the centre of the country - one which has been crying out desperately for a much deserved expansion and redevelopment? :evil: And one whose continual neglect and sidelining in this way in favour of other priorities will have grave consequences on the future of THE WHOLE RAIL NATIONAL NETWORK IN THAT THE EVER WORSENING DELAYS AND DISRUPTION WILL HAVE SERIOUS KNOCK-ON EFFECTS AND BE FELT IN ALL CORNERS OF THE COUNTRY thus completely rubbishing their ambitions to have the most modern and reliable railway in Europe in the next 10 years (what a fucking wanky naïve notion anyway!!). What a bunch of complete and utter incompetent, arrogant, hare-brained, pontificating, backpedalling, bullshitting tossers! :rant: :rant: :rant: :bash: :bash:

I just hope Londoner's Council Taxes GO THROUGH THE FUCKING ROOF when they realise the expense that will inevitably arise from all this. I just hope to god that this happens - cos they deserve to see the full cost of this over glorified prestige bandwagon that the Government seem so keen on jumping on ....... then the shit will hit the fan and Joe Public will be making a nice big song and dance about it. So long as us northerners are kept out of it and don't have such gross indignities bestowed upon us. I mean, what is it that makes our authorities and powers that be go so ridiculously OVERBOARD whenever something as trifling and - let's face it - completely ephemeral - as the fucking Olympics comes along? How fucking futile and meaningless is this huge wasteful expenditure just for the benefit of a couple of weeks...and then it's all over. How fucking obscene is that? The cost to the taxpayer will be astronomical as it stands. But then, why does the world in general go doolally over such pathetically and ultimately worthless short-term ventures? What exactly do they think will happen as a result of being in the world spotlight just for a few weeks? That suddenly life is wonderful and everybody lives happily ever after again for the sake of a few dubious fucking track and field events? That there will be no more urban blight, poverty and crime and war and suffering and inequality cos the Olympics has put our country on the world map! BIG FUCKING DEAL!!! Like I said many times before - when it comes to sport the powers that be really do take leave of their senses and all logic, rationale and judgement goes sailing out the window..... It's a very curious trait that modern humanity seems to have that I cannot ever get my head around trying to understand. Why is sports such a big fucking deal? I mean, WHY??? Suddenly everything else seems to take a back seat and other more important things play second fiddle just to make way for this sort of tokenistic orgy of obscene self-aggrandisement and profligacy that isn't even a permanent attraction anyway. It makes me fucking sick to the back teeth.

:evil: :rant: :bash: :bash:

I mean, just as a few others have already pointed out (esp Woody), once a complete blockade arises as a direct result of a shutdown of New Street station - if only for even a few hours every day, London more than any other place will soon feel the dire consequences - and when they realise that their own fucking economy (be it tourist, leisure, business, shopping, etc) is being threatened by people not being able to access the capital by all the rail routes which pass through the West Midlands area - not to mention the effects it would have on the roads (i.e. more traffic = even MORE congestion and lack of roadspace, thus tailbacks could stretch hundreds of miles on all main arterial routes as a result more people being forced onto the roads due to the situation at New Street), the fucking idiots that make the final decisions on where to allocate the much needed investment that has been promised for so long now might soon reconsider their priorities. Fuckheads. I mean, even a complete idiot can tell you that congestion at New Street directly has knock effects on virtually the whole nationwide network north south east and west (with the exception of the ECML, western lines from Paddington and all points south of the Capital of course) that ultimately serves London, so if other regions feel the effects of the congestion due to the lack of capacity there then surely that should shake the Government out of their prevailing ignorance and complacency.

Seriously I KNEW that this was going to happen - that headline (of this thread) was just inevitable anyway. I really don't know which of the two ongoing Brum sagas is frankly more exasperating - its bid to get its first skyscraper scheme up (Arena Central) or its much-needed redevelopment and complete rebuilding of New Street station. It really beggars belief that these two fiascos have been going on and on for the best part of a combined 25 years between them - without in so much as a concrete decision or indeed light at the end of the tunnel in sight...... :rant:

What's the full address to write to that stupid imbecilic fuck Alistair Darling by the way? Can anyone put it up on here for the benefit of the rest of us? I reckon it's now time to really let those emotions fly.....

:lovethem: WOW MARTIN G...could this be the thing that joins us all together???

:lovethem: WOW MARTIN G...could this be the thing that joins us all together???

Nice sentiments Woody - but, seriously, and especially in view of my reputation for knee-jerk "negativity" in some people's eyes, I very much doubt that this is the first time that I've posted words on here that have met with other people's unanimous agreement.....let alone yours. :)

But this is getting damned close to the "straw that breaks the camels backs" kind of scenario now. :yes:

Remember - time ISN'T such a luxury with some projects as we're often led to believe. Some things really do need addressing sooner rather than later. And the worst thing to do in these cases is to keep on delaying it and delaying it for pathetic feeble excuses such as regional favouritism and lack of government cash available. More crucially, especially in light of the way the world is now, time happens to be something we don't have infinite amounts of in the grand scheme of things ..... know what I'm saying?


***BTW - I DID post both those two earlier messages above on the other thread "London Grabs Brum Rail Cash" as it was the first one I saw last night whilst flicking through the forum so I repeated them here cos I felt that most people would be reading the contributions here anyway, so sorry for the duplication as it's something I'm loathe to do generally.***

Being a regular user of NS station I can honestly say the place is a shambles. The platforms were so overcrowded again this morning that you can barely get off the train. It is dangerous and it can only be a matter of time before there is a serious accident. However, as always the safety and comfort of the people of the West Midlands takes a back seat to London.

London want a nice shiny olympics to show the world what a marvellous place it is and the regions as ever suffer. Well I've had enough, some glorifed school sports day means I have to use the worst rail hub in the country for another eight years or so. Where do I write to? I know it will change nothing but at least it will allow me to vent my spleen on this.

Well, seeing as he is in demand...

Transport Secretary:
Great Minster House
76 Marsham Street
London
SW1P 4DR

Constituency:
Rt. Hon. Alistair Darling MP
22A Rutland Square
Edinburgh
EH1 2BB

Westminster:
Rt. Hon. Alistair Darling MP
House of Commons
London
SW1A 0AA

Email: darlinga@parliament.uk

Whilst your at it, cc Gordon Brown (as he holds the purse strings) either at the Westminster address above or

HM Treasury:
Rt Hon Gordon Brown MP
Chancellor of the Exchequer
HM Treasury
1 Horse Guards Road
LONDON
SW1A 2HQ

Gordon was in Brum yesterday and I do believe he travelled by train...

You may find it better to write to your own MP rather that Darling.

From personal experience I find that virtually every letter sent to him, just gets a reply from a DfT civil servant spouting official the policy line with nothing new.

I very very much doubt Darling ever gets to see 99.99999% of his mail.

I very very much doubt Darling ever gets to see 99.99999% of his mail.

That's because 99.99999% of it is threatening to kill him for being so useless.

Gordon was in Brum yesterday and I do believe he travelled by train...



^^

I know this sounds really sick but I really wished that the train he was travelling on crashed in the tunnel outside New Street or summat - thus bringing the whole network to a standstill - with him fucking well stuck in there for hours to face the wrath of his fellow passengers. THAT WOULD BE THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE THAT MAN UNDERSTAND JUST HOW FUCKING GRAVE THE SITUATION IS ALREADY in the West Midlands.

That's because 99.99999% of it is threatening to kill him for being so useless.

And you really wonder why?

I mean, which side are you on? London's presumably.

Maybe you're quite content to gloat here at the misfortune that keeps regularly - and I say that without an ounce of exaggeration - befalling the West Midlands area when it comes to never ever once getting a substantial bite of the rail investment cherry. :evil:

I said it before and I will say it again, Darling is probably the worst ever transport secretary this country has ever had. I just find it incomprehensible that this complete and utter shyster is still in this job.

i wonder wat brown must have thought wen he was boarding his pendalino the other day....."Hmm nice station"....

i wonder wat brown must have thought wen he was boarding his pendalino the other day....."Hmm nice station"....


What? I'm surprised that guy can even think.

Alistair fucking Darling certainly can't.

And you really wonder why?

I mean, which side are you on? London's presumably.

Maybe you're quite content to gloat here at the misfortune that keeps regularly - and I say that without an ounce of exaggeration - befalling the West Midlands area when it comes to never ever once getting a substantial bite of the rail investment cherry. :evil:

I said it before and I will say it again, Darling is probably the worst ever transport secretary this country has ever had. I just find it incomprehensible that this complete and utter shyster is still in this job.

Martin G, if you would have read any of my posts on transport, especially light rail, you would see that I totally agree with you. Alistair Darling is Dr Beeching the 2nd and is a terrible individual who has done great damage to some of the UK's finest cities.



woodhousen, re New Street, I totally agree with you, it's such an odious carbunkle.

I would like to see both New Street and Snow Hill rebuilt to be two major transport hubs and to have designs that encourage as much natural light as possible.

The council are really messing this up.A real shambles.

Mainline tram to nowhere Feb 11 2006


There is still no sign of the business plan which must be delivered to the Government and meet with Ministerial approval before the extension of the metro system through Birmingham city centre can be sanctioned.

Officially, discussions are continuing between the city council and Centro,

In reality, the council's Tory leadership is engaged in a major re-examination of the cost of the proposed route from Snow Hill to Five Ways. The aim is to cut the amount the council will have to find for road realignments by piling "incidental" costs on to the business plan.

This, of course, will make the metro scheme more expensive and less likely to meet the Government's cost-benefit ratio and could give Transport Secretary Alistair Darling a chance to boot out the entire project – assuming of course that he receives the business plan this side of Christmas.

Len Gregory, the Birmingham cabinet member for transportation, won't be hurried.

"We don't want another Scottish parliament situation," he said.


Len, the Scottish parliament was famously over-budget. But at least it was built.



Breaking news: the statue of Boulton, Murdoch and Watt may be placed in Centenary Square after all.


After discovering that the sculpture of Birmingham's Industrial Revolution pioneers was too heavy to be positioned over a railway tunnel, city council leisure officials have just remembered that another part of Centenary Square, close to the Hall of Memory, benefits from underground reinforcement which was installed years ago precisely to take a statue.


That's a bit of luck, then.


Trouble is, no one knows exactly where this reinforced spot is.


An inquiry is therefore underway, according to hapless cabinet leisure member John Alden.


Zzzzzzzzz.


By Paul Dale

hmmmm

Ministers refuse to say how much will go towards New Street refit Feb 15 2006


The Government will make a "substantial" financial contribution to rebuilding Birmingham's New Street Station, Transport Minister Alistair Darling pledged yesterday.

He said it was essential work went ahead, for the city and the national rail network, and he said he hoped to make an announcement about exactly home much "soon".

But Ministers were urged to go further by Birmingham MP Siôn Simon - who said Birmingham City Council's "dithering" had doomed the project.

He urged Mr Darling to take personal charge of New Street and ensure the refurbishment.

There was also a hint of rivalry between West Midland cities, as Wolverhampton MP Rob Marris (Lab Wolverhampton South West) asked for assurances investment in New Street would not be at the expense of other stations.


The issue was raised in the House of Commons by MP Richard Burden (Lab North-field) who said: "New Street is the busiest interchange station in the UK, running at about twice its capacity. That is not only unacceptable to the West Midlands but for the national rail network."


Mr Darling said the city council and Network Rail were responsible for the £350m plans.


He added: "The station is carrying far more passengers than it was designed for. There will have to be a substantial public contribution, whether from the Department for Transport or the Department of Trade and Industry, or others.


"This is part of the network where we need to spend a considerable amount to improve."


Mr Marris said: "It is important we don't get an overblown plan for New Street which will adversely affect other stations in the region, including my own in Wolverhampton."


Mr Simon blamed delays on the Conservative and Liberal Democrat partnership running the city council, saying: "If I might call a spade a spade, given the hopeless dithering of the Tory-Liberal administration in Birmingham, could I ask the Secretary of State to intervene and sort out the disgrace of New Street Station. We should have a 21st century station for a 21st century city."


Mr Darling said: "I do take a personal interest in it, not least because every time I go to Birmingham I am asked about it, which is understandable."


The station was built in the 1960s and there has been concern about its state for 15 years.

"Mr Marris said: "It is important we don't get an overblown plan for New Street which will adversely affect other stations in the region, including my own in Wolverhampton."

how fucking narrow minded

I don't usually swear, but that kind of attitude is simply appalling. If New St Stn doesn't get done, then Wolverhampton gets fucked anyway. Can he not see that?

Who is this Mr. Marris? Sounds like a right tosser to me. :|

Who is this Mr. Marris? Sounds like a right tosser to me. :|

It's a type of potato isn't it ?

Anyway, Midlands Today were promising an " important announcement tomorrow " regarding NSS on this evenings bulletin.

Maybe they are going to clean the toilets ?

CH

It's a type of potato isn't it ?

Anyway, Midlands Today were promising an " important announcement tomorrow " regarding NSS on this evenings bulletin.

Maybe they are going to clean the toilets ?

CH


Nah - more like invest in some new strip lights for the concourse and platforms.

Icing the turd part 206 perhaps? :|

The only solution that I can see apart from blockading New Street is for people in Birmingham to threaten to stop supporting Labour at national level.

The thought of losing much needed MP's should get Brown to release some extra cash Birmingham's way.

The Black Country is trying to get on eith its transport problems.

From today's Post.

Black Country's aging transport network 'must improve' Feb 21 2006

By Jonathan Walker, Political Editor

Business leaders have launched a major campaign to improve the Black Country's creaking transport network.

Black Country Chamber of Commerce is urging local businesses to call on councils and the Government to improve roads and invest in new Metro lines and public transport.

Research from the British Chambers of Commerce says poor transport systems cost i ndustry more than £15 billion a year - the equivalent of £27,000 per company.

The Black Country Chamber has established a task-force of business leaders to act as "transport champions" for the four boroughs of Sandwell, Walsall, Dudley and Wolverhampton.

It has launched a website to collect evidence, share information, and offer a chance for businesses to exchange views on transport issues. Thousands of bumper and windscreen stickers featuring the Get Moving! logo are also to be distributed.


Taskforce member David Sedgley said: "Everyone who earns a living in the Black Country knows that it can be a nightmare to complete even a seemingly straightforward journey. Our companies, our staff, our customers and their families waste thousands of h ours a year through transport problems."


Mr Sedgley, chairman of Willenhall-based commercial vehicle parts supplier Roadlink International, added: "The situation can only improve through a concerted effort by the private and public sectors to identify the main problem areas and coordinate imaginative solutions."


Ian Brough, chief executive of the Chamber, said the campaign would operate on several levels.


"We have identified major areas of concern, like the difficulties in accessing the Black Country from the western side and the need for an extended Metro system, among many others.


"Those are, of course, potentially expensive projects, but there are more straightforward solutions to some of the Black Country's problems.


"We will be compiling a dossier of 'quick wins' that will involve minimum cost but will have a significant impact."


The other taskforce members are Paul Coxhead, managing director of transport training company Targeted Training Services; Chris Kell y, chairman of West Bromwich Scania dealer Keltruck, and John Murray, managing director of Oldbury electrical contractors Atack Electrical.


The long-awaited seven-mile light railway scheme for the Black Country is soon to be submitted to the G overnment for final approval.


The Wednesbury to Brierley Hill route has already received planning permission, and a detailed business case is set to go to the Department for Transport.

From Auntie Beeb

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4745312.stm

Manchester and Birmingham already have tram networks
New authorities could help raise billions of pounds for transport schemes across the country, the Local Government Association (LGA) has said.
They could be called Transport for Manchester or Transport for Birmingham to underline an area's identity.

The new bodies would be along the lines of Transport for London (TfL), said Prof Tony Travers of the London School of Economics.

Thought you might like this Nacho :)

Thanks Bio.

Wolverhampton Interchange as requested :)

http://www.wolverhampton.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/FC809749-100D-4DF6-ADC7-C8D5EA65D505/0/interchange_375b.jpg

Aha, so you have. Two new stations in a week. that must be a record :)

and it only costs £17million compared to this £.5 billion monster

http://i1.tinypic.com/oh1fe8.jpg

That's just a reclad isn't it? BNS I mean, just the same dingy platforms, same huge great wedge cut out thing getting in the way at the front. No way is that worth 17 Million, never mind half a billion.

for some odd reason I prefer Wolvo's render than the bland NSS effort!

I'm sad to say I agree

Donn't know of you'veseen the new Euston station thread. There are some very similar comments
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=312073

wolo's is just as ugly the only difference being your expecations re new street were higher

Wolvo's station is 10 million more than Digbeth Coach Station's re-build. Isn't that a bit frightening?

has anyone actually seen the new digbeth renders yet? or it is still under the compromise .... oops, I meant consultation stage?

i'v seen it and it aint pretty

i'v seen it and it aint pretty

well that's alright then. Just for a second there I thought we might've got something original, dynamic and truly "world class!" :bash:

Pirlo - you've seen the temporary coach station haven't you? They haven't released the images of the new one as far as I know...

The temp is the old car showroom opposite (which ain't that bad actually....)

will the coaches actually fit inside the showroom or are they just parking outside?

Just noticed that today's banner is Lisbon's Orient Station.Now that is a good looker.
http://www.photomediaservice.com/imagebank/index.php?caller=xlink&url=detail.php&itemID=1661&oldcaller=suchext&lookfor=city&logic=&SwSess=c11c30389784539cdb2f6ffc6072afe0

I think they park out back Woody, and the passengers are seated in the showroom.

Don't quote me on it though!

here u go

Radical New Street design to lose out Feb 27 2006




By Campbell Docherty, Transport Correspondent


An alternative, more radical, redesign of New Street Station - including demolition of The Pallasades shopping centre - was shelved because more than a third of the nearly £500 million cost needs to be found from the private sector.

The initial funding plan for the long-anticipated rebuild of the 1960s station will require £300 million from central and local government funding streams, with £167 million needed from other sources.

The Birmingham Post understands the relatively large chunk of nongovernment investment is the reason why designs by architects John McAslan and Partners - with a huge, sweeping glass roof covering the entire station - have been scaled back.


* Tell us your view on this story. Get in touch by email, messageboard or send a web letter to the editor *

Significantly, The Pallasades shopping centre - frequently highlighted as a key reason for the dinginess of the current New Street layout - will remain above much of the expanded concourse level.




Story continues

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A new atrium will allow natural light in, but in a more limited fashion than originally envisaged by the current architects and also previous designs by Will Alsop.


A source close to the project said last night: "Considering the amount of money the project needs from the private sector, completely removing the shopping centre isn't considered an option any more."


Birmingham City Council's cabinet will today be asked to approve the scaled-back-scheme, known as Gateway 1, as opposed to the more ambitious Gateway 2 proposal.


The officer's report states Gateway 1 maxim-ises "the opportunity to partner with the new owner of the Pallasades Shopping Centre [Warner Estates]".


A summary of the business case report states: "In both the Gateway schemes there will be significant works to the exterior of the building and the retail above. The Gateway 1 introduces an atrium to bring natural light down to the concourse level. In Gateway 2 the retail level is reconfigured and a new all-over roof structure incorporating the atrium is introduced."


The report goes on to say that both Gateway schemes comfortably exceed the Government's benefit-cost ratio threshold of two to one - required to trigger state investment in major capital schemes.


Meanwhile, a Centro report to be considered by the Passenger Transport Authority next Monday details the public sector funding arrangements for the station upgrade.


The Government is to be asked for £100 million through the Local Transport Plan bid system, £100 million will come from regional development agency Advantage West Midlands, both Birmingham City Council and the PTA will contribute £10 million, with the remaining £80 million coming from the rail industry. ..SUPL:

So as expected we end up with second best: another cop-out. Pity they just didn't save the cash and build a purpose built station at Eastside rather than tolerate all the crap that is associated with the Pallasades and who owns what

That station on today's banner... can we have one of those?

You want a world class station? well it sounds like that's never going to happen

Walked through NSS this weekend and I noticed how enormous the void cut into the ground behind the rotunda is. All seems a bit pointless now but I wondered whether a stilted retail building could be built here over the tracks as the void takes up a huge ammount of prime space in the CBD.

anychance of seeing the gateway 2 designs??

this is a real shame the second proposal sounds way better

Sorry to say this but again this project already sounds doomed. There is a faint whiff of laissez-faire about the whole thing, so don't be surprised if it doesn't come off - again. This whole New Street thing is just a self-fulfilling prophecy really - the grandmaster of a plan which appears to have donned a magician's hat on false pretences of something more sophisticated, only to mount a unicycle, and proceed to pedal round and round in circles getting precisely nowhere. :bash:

I think it will happen Martin - the Prime Minister and Transport Secretary are both on record as saying that it will, and you can bet your life that Labour will be booted out of Brum if it doesn't. There's too much at stake.

Pirlo - the Gateway 2 designs are the ones on this thread earlier - it shows a section through the station with a 'clamshell' roof.

http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/birminghampost/news/tm_objectid=16755853%26method=full%26siteid=50002%26headline=new%2dstreet%2dscheme%2d%2dlacks%2dambition%2d-name_page.html


Street scheme 'lacks ambition' Feb 28 2006



Birmingham is lacking in ambition by settling for a £249 million scaled-down redevelopment of New Street Station, it was claimed last night.

The criticism came from Sir Albert Bore, leader of the city council Labour opposition group, who said it would be better to fight for a more extensive £383 million transformation of the station and surrounding shopping area.

Sir Albert delivered his comments at a cabinet meeting, where the council's ruling Conservative-Liberal Democrat coalition backed the New Street Gateway 1 project.

The scheme, which will provide airport-style departure lounges for passengers along with an enlarged station concourse and atrium, new escalators and better pedestrian access, has the support of the Department for Transport, Network Rail and other public agencies.

An alternative scheme favoured by Sir Albert - Gateway 2 - would involve demolishing the Pallasades Shopping Centre, constructing a new retail area and would be dependent on more private sector funding.




Story continues

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Sir Albert said: "My view is that we should not look at this simply as the regeneration of New Street Station but as the regeneration of a much wider area from the Rotunda to the Mailbox.


"There is a suggestion that, by choosing Gateway 1, we are not being ambitious enough."


He pointed out that public sector funding amounting to £200 million was already on the table for the project.


It ought not to be beyond the council's capability to lever in a further £183 million from the private sector and other sources in order to deliver the larger Gateway 2 scheme, he said.


His claims were rejected by council leader Mike Whitby who insisted Gateway 1 had the best chance of securing Government approval and would provide a new station "of which we can all be proud".


Coun Whitby (Con Harborne) added: "We have been ambitious for New Street Station since the 1960s. We are now in 2006.


"In 30 years time we won't be talking about ambition because we will have the New Street Station that we want.


"It is a question of gelling together ambition with what we can deliver. But I can assure you there is no lack of ambition. This will be a world class travel experience."


Coun Whitby said the next step for the council was to persuade bodies such as Advantage West Midlands and the Government Office for the West Midlands to deliver on pledges already made in principle to help fund the new station. The cabinet agreed to allocate a further £1.5 million toward the planning stage.

i wonder if it is possible for the said government bodies to reject funding on ground that value for money wise, they are no getting as much for their money as they want....ie the council are not being ambitios enough?

Coun. Whitby is unbelievably short-sighted and naive if he thinks making do with a cheaper option will stand the tests of time by 2036. Haven't we heard all this tosh before during the 60s revolution?

Of course in 30 years time Whitby will have probably retired to sunnier climbs living off his generous public sector pension, while we still have to live with his ill-judged decisions and making do with "Second City:Second Best" once more

It is all well and easy for Albert Bore to say what he said - he doesn't have to come up with the goods, and it looks like Labour aren't going to regain contol of the council at the local elections.

But Mike Whitby is misguided if he thinks that it will be "world class". It will be an OK, functioning railway station - that's all. The government's cost:benefit ratio is met by both designs so it looks like it would get government funding either way.

The difficulty is "buying out" the Pallasades. There is provision for retail in Gateway 2 but not as much. The money has to be raised from the private sector, and I can't see how they can get hold of private money to buy out and then demolish a shopping centre, and get provided with less retail. Unless some land is sold off and the council/Network Rail uses the proceeds from that.

I feel inclined to email Birmingham City Council again and let them know that at least one Birmingham resident is not happy with them continually err-ing on the side of caution and not genuinely pushing through with truly ambitious projects, such as Gateway 2 & the original New Central Library development.

I'll also ask them to consider Eastside for a proper national rail station, rather than opting for compromise with their unacceptable Gateway One option at NSS.

Would there not be "natural wastage" though over the coming years ?. I suspect that a lot of the shops in Priory at the moment will not be able to afford the rents in Martineau Galleries, leaving space for the more up-market shops from Pallasades. I think the lower end of the market is going to be pushed out of the city centre and so it should be.

CH

mike.whitby@birmingham.gov.uk

Go for it! If you don't let them know then you can't really complain when it gets built :)

So are you saying that the city centre should only be for the domain of the wealthy and everyone else can go elsewhere?

mike.whitby@birmingham.gov.uk

Go for it! If you don't let them know then you can't really complain when it gets built :)


Bio

I emailed him last week inviting him here to defend himself but guess what ... no reply ... lol, but you can bet that one of his flunky's took a look.

Though i doubt that he or anyone else for that matter give a toss what we think.

CH

Write him a letter then - I have done in the past and got a reply. I also featured in the scrutiny committee report as one of the commenters (as did a few others on here).

Send a letter to the Post or the Mail. To the DfT. Anyone! If Cllr Whitby got just 1000 letters proclaiming support for Gateway 2 then you can bet he'd sit up and listen.

Quite often, the best way to get to the people at the top is via the press. They have people who cut articles & letters out and bring it to their attention :)

My point is, as long as we make our voices known, we are entitled to have a good old moan when the choice goes the other way ;)

What I find IS interesting, is that the cabinet had a choice of 2 options. Why were they not only given one? I suspect there are misgivings.

post_letters@mrn.co.uk

Try it. I would like everyone reading this thread (whether they are from Brum or not) to send a letter to The Post (be it a 2-liner or chapter & verse) and another to Mike Whitby to let them know their thoughts on New St.

Think of it as a challenge for Lent :)

Sir Albert bore is a nob he's just stating the obivious dont have no respect for him

As for mr whityby........

the problem with the gateway 1 soloution is in my eyes it is only a short term fix soon we'll be back where we started

COME ON PEOPLE LOOK HOW MUCH BETTER THIS IS ALL FORUM MEMEBERS NEED TO GET WRITING ASAP!!!!!!

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b249/pirlo_21/Brimmingham-model.gif

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b249/pirlo_21/Birminghamnight.gif

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b249/pirlo_21/Birmingham2.gif

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b249/pirlo_21/Birminghammodel.gif

WE NEED TO TAKE ACTION TO STOP THESE IDIOTS FROM RUINING OUR CITY

if you are writing an email i woudl suggest you make 3 copies

1) to mr whitby
2) to mr bore
3) to the press

So are you saying that the city centre should only be for the domain of the wealthy and everyone else can go elsewhere?


No, not at all, but i do believe there is a place for everything and the sight of a Pound shop in a city centre shopping mall is a sign of demise. We have the markets for the cheap stuff and lord knows how many poundstretchers and the like are already proliferating our local high streets.

Of course, there will always be a place for large low end retailers like Primark [check out my wardrobe] who occupy and maintain prime location stores and so there should be, but lets face it, no one is going to get on a train to come into our city via the stunning £385 million world class NSS to buy a plastic bucket for a quid are they ?.

No, i want a city centre that i can be proud of, a city that others will want to visit because of it has excellent amenities, because it has above and beyond that their hometown has to offer.

CH

well ive done civic duty and pinged emails off to Mr Dingbat, Mr Boredom, the Birminngham.gov website and the Post & Mail.

Fortunately I kept it down to about a page, although I did go a bit OTT and ranted on until I realised I was losing my point.

Anyway, I just told them that to:-

a) Gateway 2 or Eastside for the Rail Station
b) Green light the Richard Rodgers Library of Birmingham
c) fully back the Super Casino/City Of Birmingham Stadium in Saltley
d) stick some dynamite up the bottoms of the major players with AC & BST and get the damn things built once and for all, or not at all
e) Eastside to NSS Monorail system
f) fully support BIA with their expansion plans
g) Bid ASAP for the next available Commonwealth Games
h) sort out the mess in Kings Heath were people are still suffering blight over last years Tornado

oh and

i) dynamite CrownShite Plaza & Travelshitelodge

I also added that Im fed up with the Council for all their pissing about with politicising everything they try to do rather than focus on the needs of the business community and the residents of this great city!

I don't expect many replies, but will follow up with letters if need be.

If we can all find time to post our displeasure about what is going in with our city's future, on this forum then surely we call find equal time to ping the sheep over at the council with our concerns.

Suit up and kick some whitby ass!

agree with all of the above apsrt from the liabary

agree with all of the above apsrt from the liabary

Don't you agree that the library should be built in Eastside to Rogers design? Would you rather have the split sight library or something?

I don't undertstand why the Pallasades can't be in the Martineau Galleries. We don't need a whole complex of shops over the station, just retail pods on one level. Simple. So we should build the Clam! I love a bit of clam!

I share most of your grievances over the way the government/network rail have simply come up with a third rate "will this do? (cos, whisper, we don't really want to invest too much money on addressing the New Street situation that could of course be better spent elsewhere)" option that simply smacks of a half-hearted compromise gesture (surprise surprise). This just proves once and for all - if it ever needed repeating again - that they really don't have any credibility or commitment whatsoever in putting their money where their mouth is. Besides, another thing I am rightly pissed off about after reading all the countless articles that everyone has posted up here taken from various "OFFICIAL" sources, is that nowhere has there even been any mention - or hint of a mention - that the much-trumpeted "improved-capacity" spiel will also extend to at least increasing the number of unobstructed platform faces that the station has to offer - I feel that the existing 12 double length (suffixed "a" and "b" as they currently are of course) platforms are totally insufficient and will NOT solve the problem of increased traffic/capacity but newly indented platform faces (a total of six perhaps - see my diagram below) such as the one that was recently brought into practice at platform 3d(?) or 4d(?) IS the most effective way of providing for this, and eliminating the problem of one train obstructing another as they share the same platform face.

This is a perfectly common sense and achievable objective and yet how fucking blinkered are Network Rail not to even exploit this option? I mean, THIS CAN BE DONE WITH THE MINIMUM OF UPHEAVAL TO THE EXISTING STRUCTURE SIMPLY BY WIDENING HALF OF THE PLATFORM FACE OUTWARDS AND, IN SO DOING, HAVE IT SERVE THE FORMERLY REDUNDANT/SUPERFLUOUS CENTRE TRACK (used for stabling) WHILST THE OLD THROUGH TRACK IS TRUNCATED AND MADE INTO A TERMINAL TRACK TO SERVE THE NEW BAY PLATFORM THAT IS CREATED IN THIS WAY!!!!! This is such a bleedingly obvious thing to do - and yet no one seems to have picked up on this potentially useful and VERY cost-effective way to increase the number of platforms at New Street station! :bash: :rant:


Look here:

BNS PLATFORM LAYOUT AS IT IS NOW:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c8/Basher65/newstreet1.jpg


BNS PLATFORM LAYOUT AS IT REALLY OUGHT TO BE:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c8/Basher65/newstreet2.jpg

It seems like a perfectly sensible/feasible solution to me - but then those blinkered fucks in charge of the redevelopment are so wrapped up in their dithering and passing off some poxy tenth-rate cop-out proposal they're all but completely blind to the OTHER practical possibilities that stare them in the face. :bash:

Martin - have you thought about submitting this idea to the Network Rail Project Manager and maybe the architect?

It's worth a go, and if they use some of it maybe you could have a platform named after you - one with a soothing voice on the tannoy to annoucne the imminent arrival of the 8.46 from Lichfield ;)

Martin - have you thought about submitting this idea to the Network Rail Project Manager and maybe the architect?

It's worth a go, and if they use some of it maybe you could have a platform named after you - one with a soothing voice on the tannoy to annoucne the imminent arrival of the 8.46 from Lichfield ;)


I can just imagine:-

"BING BONG. Oi fuckwits!! The train from that hellhole called Lichfield on Platform MG, is 5 minutes late due to incompetent management planning, poor fucking infrastucture & absolutely shite networking! Tough titty, bastards!" :jk:

I can just imagine:-

"BING BONG. Oi fuckwits!! The train from that hellhole called Lichfield on Platform MG, is 5 minutes late due to incompetent management planning, poor fucking infrastucture & absolutely shite networking! Tough titty, bastards!" :jk:


^^ :lol: :lol: :lol: :rofl: :rofl:

ha ha ha ha !! Love it - that's pretty inspired Sonny..... I believe I can perfectly relate to that! :D

right im confused. are all the renders on this page (posted by pirlo) all part of the same masterplan? the newest renders that were in the post look nothing like some of these.

the renders posted by me are of the second more expensive option that has been rejected beacuse it is expensive as they would have to get rid of pallisades

the renders posted by me are of the second more expensive option that has been rejected beacuse it is expensive as they would have to get rid of pallisades
The Gateway 1 scheme which appeared in the post is the cheapo version which retains over the station retail. Whitless Whitby is plumping for this. Boring Bore says they lack ambition because they 'aint goin' for Gateway B, the more ambitious scheme of which p_21 has posted renders. Yet again these decisions have been made by accountants who wouldn't recognise a good building if it collapsed on them.

this is bad. that last picture is stunning

Birmingham City Council used to have the old motto "Forward" - which, if I'm not mistaken, they were still peddling until recently.... it was accompanied by a blue and red chevron pointing upwards in a V-salute - almost as if in defiant "up yours" gesture. Perhaps now they should seriously think about changing it and adopting a newer, more representative one. Some suggestions?
Here...

1)

BIRMINGHAM CITY COUNCIL: We Could Have Been Contenders

2)

BIRMINGHAM CITY COUNCIL: Backpedalling To The Future

3)

BIRMINGHAM CITY COUNCIL: Squandering Opportunities

4)

BIRMINGHAM CITY COUNCIL: The Easy Way Out

5)

BIRMINGHAM CITY COUNCIL: Committed To Compromise

6)

BIRMINGHAM CITY COUNCIL: City Of 100 Cheapskates

7)

BIRMINGHAM CITY COUNCIL: Stunted Ambitions

8)

BIRMINGHAM CITY COUNCIL: Arrested Development




Can anyone come up with some more?

How about.

Birmingham: Lowest council tax rise in the country. (1.9%)

I'd have loved to see the more ambitious gateway built - but not at any cost.

Birmingham Post Mar 3 2006
MP wants greater capacity at New Street Station

A city MP refused to sign up to a campaign in support of the redevelopment of New Street Station despite it being backed by his ten Westminster colleagues and other Birmingham politicians and organisations.

Khalid Mahmood (Lab Perry Barr) initially declined to sign the "statement of intent" letter, printed in today's Birmingham Post, because the redevelopment plans did nothing to improve dwindling track capacity.

Mr Mahmood (right) said: "We don't need a refurbished station as much as we need investment in improving the capacity at New Street.

"I use the station a lot and if the timings are slightly wrong there, you can be sitting on a train outside the station for quite a while."

However, Mr Mahmood later said he had since been contacted by Network Rail - following a request from The Birmingham Post for comment by the station owners - and would now put his name to the letter but with a "caveat" of wanting more capacity created.

The open letter, co-signed by the region's leaders, backs the Birmingham Gateway campaign and p ledges to "seize the moment" by forging a part-nership that will fight "for a world class station".

They issued a challenge to the people and businesses of Birmingham and the wider region to "click start" the campaign by registering their support at the project's website - www.renewstreet.co.uk.

....

BTW On the ICbirmingham website you can register to get the Bham Post for free for a month.

There are some letters and opinions on New Street and another about the library and Keepittogether.co.uk :) I'm not going to retype them here but the renewstreet are looking to get registered support from businesses and individuals.

You can no longer email them your views but they've missed the opportunity not to offer the Gateway 2 option. This is a big mistake I think and would have had massive widespread support from the public.

Yes I want a better New Street Station but I strongly feel the present proposal - gateway 1 - isn't money well spent and I honestly don't know whether to register my support.

If anyone from renewstreet ever reads this can they openly state if there is any chance of Gateway 2 happening if there is enough support please.

thank you

I am NOT going to register my support for a half baked concept, if this goes through then we will be looking at going through all this again in 10 years time and what will it cost by then ?. Lets just bite the bullet and sort NSS out once and for all.

CH

Hi i'm a new poster on here but i've been reading over the forum for a while because imm trying to get an idea for my dissertation! I am at newcastle university studying planning. I can't believe everything that has been said about new street on here, its amazing so many people can see that in x amount of years time they will be looking at how they can expand new street whether the new design is built again or not. Now not only is NSS already too congested, but in years to come it will be even worse because if i'm not mistaken don't the government want "sustainable" transport, meaning more people will be encouraged to use trains around birmingham?
The people involved begger belief, i don't know how much BCC are to blame

Welcome to the forum.I think Woodhousen is studying in Newcastle too.

i am studying at newcastle uni and im studying town planning

Taken from Centro's home page.

Airport urged to encourage public transport
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Birmingham International Airport should work more closely with public transport promoter Centro to get more people to give up their cars, according to local councillors.

Members of the West Midlands Passenger Transport Authority (WMPTA) were commenting on a draft Master Plan. They have added their support to expand the airport, but say more needs to be done to encourage more passengers and employees to travel by bus, train or tram.

“We want to ensure that the planned expansion of Birmingham International Airport reduces impact on road congestion and the environment by providing better public transport links,” explains PTA chairman Councillor Gary Clarke.

“Our hope is that the Airport Company, which runs BIA, will support public transport by making adequate provision for buses, trains and light rail within the expansion project.”

The Government’s Future of Air Transport White Paper set the Airport Company a target of 25 percent of people arriving at the airport by public transport.

“We hope this target can be achieved or even bettered,” continues Cllr Clarke. “We also welcome the airport’s continuing support for the planned Midland Metro lines, and hope to secure a protected route for the trams alongside the A45 and within the expanding airport.”

In a letter to airport bosses commenting on the Master Plan, Cllr Clarke says the main issues with the expansion are capacity on the surrounding motorway network, capacity on the rail network and at Birmingham International station, provision of bus priority in and around the site, and provision of public transport services which meet the needs of employees.

“Most of these issues are acknowledged in the Master Plan,” comments Cllr Clarke. “However there is not sufficient information about provision. So, we must request that there remains a close liaison with Centro officers in the coming months and years as these issues are addressed and schemes developed.”

Centro, which carries out policy for the WMPTA, also wants to see car parking provision minimised, thereby reducing land take, adverse environmental issues and traffic levels, and will continue to work with partners to improve bus and rail services to the site.

I'm in my second year at newcastle woodhousen what year you in?

^^^ Public transport links between the airport and solihull are pathetic. 1 Bus an hour.. nobody will use a service that is so unfrequent so everybody get's a lift or uses a taxi. Links to Brum and Coventry are quite good however cause of the rail line but there's not enough capacity cause of only being single tracked.

Brum may be in line for new 225mph train Mar 16 2006
Brum may be in line for new 225mph train
Birmingham Post
Mar 16 2006
By Jonathan Walker, Political Editor

http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/birminghampost/news/tm_objectid=16820028%26method=full%26siteid=50002%26headline=brum%2dmay%2dbe%2din%2dline%2dfor%2dnew%2d225mph%2dtrain-name_page.html


A new high-speed rail line linking Birmingham, London and Manchester "could be the answer" to getting Britain's rail system moving, Transport Secretary Alistair Darling said yesterday.

The track, with trains running up to 225 mph, would boost the economy and help the environment by getting travellers out of their cars, he said.

Mr Darling's comments, in a speech to rail industry managers, suggested he was prepared to back the £30 billion scheme, but he insisted no final decision had been made.

Former British Airways chief executive Rod Eddington is considering the proposal, as part of a wide-ranging review of Britain's transport system.

Mr Darling also stressed the need to improve transport infrastructure in regions such as the West Midlands, rather than concentrating funding in London and the South-east.

The proposed high speed rail line line would run from London to Scotland, stopping at Birmingham and Manchester.


It would be faster than the upgraded West Coast Main Line, which recently began a 125mph service between London Euston and Glasgow.


Speaking at the National Rail Conference in London, Mr Darling said: "We need to rigorously examine the merits of high speed lines in this country.


"A high speed line could improve journey times and bring potential economic benefits."


It could have a similar effect to the Channel Tunnel Railink, which had bought billions of pounds worth of regeneration to parts of London, he said.


"It could, provided we get it right, bring environmental benefits by getting more people out of their cars and off aeroplanes."


Mr Darling added: "A High Speed Line could be the answer, but we understand the complexities of the problem."


Mr Darling also stressed the importance of improving transport links in cities such as Birmingham.


"Britain's towns and cities will drive our economic success in the future.


"Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester - and they will all face growing pressures. That is why we need to act now, both on road and rail.


"The capacity problems they face are different to London, because people's travel patterns are different.


"The peaks are much shorter and more pronounced. But if we want our towns and cities to grow we need to support them - and so these problems need to be addressed."


Coun Gary Clarke, chairman of the West Midlands Passenger Transport Authority, welcomed the comments.


But he added: "We must now ensure we get our fair slice of the cake.


"Network capacity really is critical in the West Midlands which lies at the hub of the national network.


"We have inter-city, cross-country, suburban off-peak and essential commuter services all competing for the same track.


"And when we get rail grid-lock in the West Midlands there is very quickly a knock-on effect for the wider network."


Local councils in the West Midlands are seeking Government funding for the rebuild of New Street Station.


But it will cost £500 million just to give the station sufficient passenger capacity. Improvements to rail track are also needed, to deal with a bottleneck at the station.

These sort of increasingly desperate and pie-in-the-sky proclamations just prove how Alistair Darling is completely full of shit.

If he can't sort out the investment for the fucking rail network at its most BASIC and RUDIMENTARY level - bearing in mind his proposal to axe unprofitable rural/local lines and replace them with buses thus adding more to raffic congestion etc etc - then what the fuck is he doing avoiding addressing this issue yet again and instead coming up with yet more of these ridiculously over-optimistic proposals relying as ever on the old speed-obsessed adage which show how cluelessly short sighted this useless charlatan is? Fuckwit.

Apprently the Midland Metro was talked about at MIPIM. Centro were quite confident in their plans for expansion in Birmingham and the Black Country and the government are due to give a verdict by the end of the year...

The problem is that the joint business case for the City line and the Dudley line should have been submitted in December.This has been delayed due to the council wanting to tweak part of the route.If the council gets its way there will have to be another public inquiry resulting in delaying the project another four years at least.The City extension should have been finished in 2003;current estimates focus on a 2008 work start if the plan is sumbitted at the eleventh hour (to be operational in 2011).It will be way after 2015 if the council follows its current wishes.

From the Birmingham Post article about road pricing:

....The Transport Secretary also warned that New Street Station "cannot last much longer" as it is.

However, he said no decision had been made on whether to rebuild the station or build a new one close by.

Mr Darling also revealed he was talking to Birmingham City Council about the future of the planned metro tram extension in the city.

It emerged that the planned £72 million extension through the city centre is on the brink of collapse.

Mr Darling said: "I'm at the moment having discussions with Birmingham City Council."

http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/birminghampost/news/tm_objectid=16885840%26method=full%26siteid=50002%26headline=region%2ds%2dzeal%2dfor%2droad%2dpricing-name_page.html

Very interesting.

Well it appears that the plan (in theory...I don't believe the scheme would collapse for the sake of a few extra trams?) for the city extension has been submitted at the eleventh hour.There was a danger that only the Dudley Line would make it through.At least it has been forwarded.Scaremongering,to spark a reaction?The council would look pretty foolish now if it backed out.


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The new LTP sets out plans for a step-change in the Metropolitan transport system, and the investment needed to deliver this. Major projects include:

An expansion of the Midland Metro tram system from Wednesbury to Brierley Hill, via Dudley, and from Snow Hill to Five Ways in central Birmingham

The £500 million redevelopment of Birmingham New Street Station.

Taken from today's Centro page.
http://centro.journalistpresslounge.com/centro/news/index.cfm/fuseaction/details/id/4CB6CBFB-13D3-97AA-2D8BD34578477D94/cnt/1/ref/main/type/News%20Releases/ses/1.cfm

Do we deserve one of these? :cheer:

Too early for one of those Bio,but why would the council submit the city extension if they weren't going to rubber stamp it?Lots of twists and turns to come I imagine......the project that is ,not the actual track :) .

Latest projected Metro map.

http://centro.journalistpresslounge.com/centro/uploads/imagelibrary/Metro%20network%20map.jpg

^^
Naaah - that'll never happen - looks WAY too overambitious - we all know what skinflints the government are you know! We'll be lucky to get the cheapskate surface level extension across the city centre via the torturous switchback rollercoaster road gradients at this rate - hopefully up and running by, ooh, 2046. Oh what fun this is all going to be....... :|

Latest projected Metro map.

http://centro.journalistpresslounge.com/centro/uploads/imagelibrary/Metro%20network%20map.jpg
:hahaha: :hilarious :rofl:

Yeah right. It will materialise to be.. erm... never.

:ohno:

thats the spirit.

gotta do somethin. cos its taking me too fuckin long to walk from colmore rd to digbeth

What amazes me is exactly how long this process is taking, everyone acknowledges that Birmingham has major transport issues, and yet there is no urgency in getting anything done. At the Birmingham Transport Summit National Express said they wanted to be finished by early 2008, ambitious but needed. While the New Street team said they would be read to start on site at the end of 2008, where is the bloody delay, that is two years away, and crucially means it won't be finished for the Olympics (Plus if they say 2008, they may just get on site for 2010).

The same is true of the Metro, I remember formal plans for the extension proposed in 2002, exactly what has happened in the last 4 years!

The same is true of the Metro, I remember formal plans for the extension proposed in 2002, exactly what has happened in the last 4 years!

It was given the nod in 1999.The fault lies first with central government, then secondly with the current administration who have undermined the project from the begining.The 300,000 pound tunnelling study delayed the project by a few years at least ,arriving at a conclusion that we on the forum offered for free in 2004.Now they accept the Metro but want to tweak the plan that was drawn up more than 9 years ago.However,if they council goes ahead with its idea to change part of the plan (Broad Street) it will have to go through a public inquiry once again.This will effectively put back construction 6 or 7 years.A shambles really.It's very difficult to get these transport projects off the floor even if you have a steady pro -light rail council like Manchester; they've been trying for many years and just might be seeing some positive results.With no cross party cohesion its very complicated indeed.The ideal situation would be like Spain where they announce a project and have it up and running in a couple of years.Ironically ,Seville used the Metro on its publicity boards around the city.Now they will be overtaking Birmingham.

I still don't believe they spent £300,000 on the tunnelling survey, I would really like to see what a £300,000 report that states the obvious looks like, the consultants that got that must have been laughing all the way to the bank

Can I please be one of the Consultants on the UK Meglev Trains at 220mph bright idea?

Promise the report will be on time! No more than 4 years!

I went to a talk on Maglev in Birmingham by the German Company who made the Chinese Maglev. They said there was no government support for HST in government, which seemed strange a they were prepared to spend just as much on upgrading to low speed trains that would need to be upgraded in 10 years anyway, but he said as an indication of what Maglev could do, If you had a single line running from Birmingham (International) to London Houston, with one stop, probably Milton Keynes, average journey times would be 17-20 minutes. Imagine what would happen if that was the case.

I also watched the Chinese Maglev being built, 3 years drawing board to completion, now that is a timescale, it was £/m the most expensive railway in Asia, and would have been the cheapest new railway in the uk.

Here's my Meglev report!

Short:

Nawh.

Long:

It'll cost too much to build the tracks
It'll cause to much disruption
It'll cost more than we think to build the tracks
The Goverment will keep changing it's mind, causing confusion, more costs and huge mistakes
It won't work, as we won't spend the required amount on Maintaince.
We can't run the present system, so what's the point.

That'll be 500 Thousand please.

You have done this before, were you on the Undergound Commitee! Have you thought of going for the ministry of transport. We have got a complete prat in there at the moment.

The Munich Maglev is a completely private venture, ie no subsidies to set it up, no subsidies to run it and this is based on about 50% occupancy and fairly reasonable fares. Cant help but think privatisation of our railways has basically left us still paying for the damn thing but not actually making any improvements.

I also watched the Chinese Maglev being built, 3 years drawing board to completion, now that is a timescale, it was £/m the most expensive railway in Asia, and would have been the cheapest new railway in the uk.

All for very obvious reasons, however.

Is that because we have the best paid yet laziest railway workers in the world...

Not really, i was thinking more of China being a totalitarian state where there is no such thing as a democratic process / formal opposition mechanism to that sort of thing, where labour costs are peanuts, where they can build what they like where they like (can't imagine the Chinese planning procedure being too stringent).

And not forgetting China has vast swathes of lowly populated land, unlike the UK.

I'm not suggesting it would have been like Bridge on the River Kwai or anything, but you can't really compare the building of a railway in China with one in western europe.

Quite the opposite in fact, discussion about such topics within the party is especially fierce, (when its got no real political aspect) in this particular occasion Beijing really didn't think the Maglev would be worth it for the cost, why not a conventional HST, but Shanghai decided that if they wanted to be known as a world class City they needed a world class link.

In terms of Planning its not quite BCC, but because it was a JV private venture, between the german company and a company owned by the Chinese government it had to take the usual proceedure, which as anyone thats worked in China will know involves a massive amount of Red Tape.

Labour is still cheap, but again not as cheap as you would think, the laying of a Maglev is a complex procedure and it required skilled labour, so they brought in a massive pool of foreign labour and drew in all the various home grown experts in concrete etc. All the moving parts were generally made in Europe, mainly germany, but the bloke said some were even made here in Birmingham.

While Land in Shanghai, especially through Pudong, is some of the most expensive in the world, more so than Brum anyway, so they came up with quite a novel idea, building 30 foot above the main higway, they said it acts as a double whammy for Public transport too, in that while you are waiting on the 7 year old but already congested highway, you look up and see the blur that is the Maglev and go, "I wish I'd caught the train"

My point being that what got it completed so quickly wasnt, labour, planning or the machinations of a totalitarian state, but a clear and purposeful vision, backed up by the big stick that to mess up would really cost the city big, not necessarily a statement that is lost on Brum.

From BBC Online

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/4933954.stm

£322m needed for Metro extension
The government is to be asked for three-quarters of the cost of a £430m extension to the tram network through the West Midlands.

Centro has drawn up final plans for an expansion of the Midland Metro around Birmingham and the Black Country.

Passenger Transport Authority (PTA) councillors are expected to approve the details at a special meeting on Monday.

The plans include new lines from 2012 through Birmingham city centre and from Wednesbury to Brierley Hill via Dudley.

Around three-quarters of the cost - some £322m - would come from Government, with the rest of the bill being paid by local councils and private sector funding.

Centro chairman Gary Clarke said: "We are really pleased to be in a position where we can finally get our business case into Government.

"The expanded Midland Metro network will provide an excellent level of service for passengers.

"Frequent high-capacity trams will provide a real boost to the accessibility of Birmingham city centre and the Black Country - with excellent links between shops, homes, offices, rail stations and major new developments.

"It will make a real impact on our campaign to cut congestion for everyone.

Extensions to the Midland Metro already have planning approval after two public inquiries.

When the business case has been submitted it is hoped the Government will grant "conditional approval".

That means the Passenger Transport Authority can go out to tender for three contracts for building the line, supplying the trams and operating the network.

Latest figures estimate the cost of building the new lines to be £384m after an allowance is made for inflation up to the year 2012 when the trams are hoped to be running.

lol, i remember the days it cost £72,000,000

What do you make of this Metrolink and Nacho?

It seems good that we've finally manage to thrash out a deal this end, let's just hope the signals the government have been making come true...

Wasn't the £72m just for the city centre bit?

I think Brum has a decent chance of getting this money - don't expect a rapid decision, but I think the willingness of the W Midlands authorities to take part in the TIF 'tests' will play very well with the DfT.

Hopefully the next Tramways and Urban Transit will give more specific details, e.g. number of trams on order etc.

I read in the Times that David Cameron is pushing the Tories to back trams across the country as part of their green credentials (in fact the Tories are supposed to be the ones who back most of the recent tram networks) so maybe this helped our council focus their minds?

focus their minds..its about time, blody 2 billion quid underground network....sinc when has one tunnel and 2 stations at 2 billion been considered a network......

I seem to recall similar bids coming in from Liverpool and Sheffield a year or so ago for new tram networks but the government turned them down.

i have my fingers crossed but im not hopefully with this tight-wad chancellor

bloody hell the more they delay it the more the price goes up

The Birmingham Post seems very confident today...

good gd, just been reading it, i see what u mean

^^The article inside also mentions that developers along the route have promised £46million of the non-government funding provided they get approval of their projects.

Do we think we will see a glut of proposals once the government gives it support?

There is obviously Snow Hill and Arena Central, BST and Edgbaston Shopping Centre...

i would have thought so. this route couldnt possibly hit more major developments even if it wanted too....

it is times like this however, that BCC may start getting greedy and asking for more money off the private investors / developers..... could end up getting our hands burnt

Well ,this is good news but we still have to get over the more difficut hurdle of government funds.I think there is a general feeling that the two routes will be accepted ;I even recall (last year)Darling saying that he had the plans on the 'table' and was just waiting for the Council give it the green light before he signed (easy to say that though).
The government's refusal for lines in Liverpool,Leeds,and South Hants may well work in Birmingham's favour;costings have been carefully worked out and Centro has learnt from their mistakes.Also the government's transport policy was to create over 20 light rail lines in the country before 2010....they haven't rubber stamped any until now(almost ten years after being in power).The City extension and Dudley line aren't the most expensive;Centro is only asking for 300 million.Other projects far exceeded that.Merry Hill alone are paying over 30 million.
I see that the line itself will hopefully operate in 2012.Again time has slipped.I've seen 2002,2003,2005,2008,2011,and finally 2012.This a major problem for Britain as a whole;it's hardly surprising that costs escalate.Regions have to have more control over their transport projects.Apparently,there wont be a government decision until January 2008.Slow,slow.....s...l...o.......w.
Yesterday I took some pics of the works for the tram line in Seville (not the underground which will be operating in the near future).Work started a couple of weeks ago and they are cracking ahead.Remember, the concept is only a year old and it will be open for the public in May next year!
All in all good news for Birmingham and at least we seem to be going in the right direction .We may get a provisional nod in October to allow for some enabling works....that will be an indicator of how the plan is progressing.

Tram bid gets green light
Apr 25 2006
By Shahid Naqvi

Birmingham's dream of lifting its image to that of a modern European metropolis with trams running through the city centre moved closer to reality yesterday.

Transport officials and council leaders gave the green light to submit a business case for two schemes to the Government and ask for £322 million in public funding. If approved, a £116 million line will run along a route from Five Ways to Snow Hill Station taking in Corporation Street, New Street Station, Broad Street and the ICC, by 2012.

The plans also include proposals for a Black Country extension from Wednesbury to Brierley Hill via Dudley.

A business case for the project has been approved by the West Midlands Passenger Transport Authority and the transport executive Centro.

Councillor Gary Clarke, Centro-PTA chairman, said setting up the light rail lines was a vital cog in boosting the image of Birmingham and its surrounding region.


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"Across Europe, city-regions have transformed themselves with investment in public transport," he said.

"Trams have been making a comeback both as an agent of urban renewal and as the spine of modern and revitalised networks."

Coun Clarke highlighted light rail success stories of other cities, including Strasbourg, Grenoble, Karlsruhe, Dublin, Nottingham and Birmingham's sister city Lyon.

Submission of the plans come after months of dispute within the council, much of it focusing on concerns over new congestion problems created by diverting cars away from the metro route.

The Centro-PTA proposals include earmarking £7.1 million to ease problems caused by traffic.

The Government is expected to give a decision on whether to fund the proposed construction of the 26-mile network in January 2008.

...

Trams are way to beat Brum's jams
Apr 25 2006

As Government Ministers consider the expansion plans for Birmingham's Metro, Gary Clarke, chairman of the local transport authority Centro-PTA, explains why the system is vital if the city is to beat congestion...

Drivers in the West Midlands say that transport is a more serious issue for the region than health or education and want tackling congestion to be a top priority.

Congestion is hitting the regional economy too. The business community estimate the cost of delays to people and goods at more than £2.5 billion a year.

And when the Institution of Civil Engineers canvassed wider views on transport problems it found that nearly three-quarters of people believed improved public transport was the best way to beat road congestion - and only one in ten said the answer was to build more roads.

Planning the transport future for the West Midlands is entering a crucial phase. A major piece of work on the impact of congestion will inform how we could tap into the billions on offer through the Transport Innovation Fund and the West Midlands metropolitan councils, together with CentroPTA, have just submitted our joint Local Transport Plan to Government.


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That plan names the top priorities for the West Midlands as New Street Station, expanding the Midland Metro and developing a network of 'red routes' to keep all traffic flowing more freely.

In the Birmingham rush hour the majority of commuters now travel by public transport, despite constant and sometimes justified grumbles about the levels of service. So we believe that better buses, better local rail services and expanding the Midland Metro has to be the best way forward.

Across Europe, city-regions have transformed themselves with investment in public transport. Trams have been making a comeback both as an agent of urban renewal and as the spine of modern and revitalised networks. Impressive new systems have been built in places like Strasbourg, Grenoble, Karlsruhe, Dublin, Nottingham and Birmingham's sister city Lyon.

Light rail has shown itself to be one of the most successful for reducing congestion in an urban corridor - and for enhancing the environment where quiet, pollution-free vehicles can penetrate busy city centres. The new trams are also doing a good job at raising the profile of places across Europe. They quickly become part of the street scene and the image of a modern city.

Midland Metro Line One now performs at 98 per cent reliability - the best track record of any public transport in the region. It was built mostly along a disused railway route, and now regeneration of adjacent land is well underway showing how it has become a catalyst for new development.

But Line One only does half the job. Why should passengers only be able to travel as far as Snow Hill when their destination actually lies in the city centre?

More recent studies, such as a critical report by the National Audit Office, stress that successful lines must join up areas of passenger demand and this is why it has been crucial for the Birmingham extension to provide linkages with New Street, the ICC, city centre shops and good interchange with other forms of public transport.

The Metro expansion plans now being put to Government will create a network of 26 miles with almost 50 stops and easy connections with bus and rail services, plus park and ride.

As well as improving the environment in Birmingham city centre, it will provide high-quality public transport through both residential and commercial areas of the Black Country along a route from Wednesbury to Dudley and Brierley Hill.

It will give direct access for people to Wolver-hampton, Birmingham and West Bromwich centres, as well as supporting the regeneration of significant areas along the route and development of Merry Hill and Brierley Hill.

By connecting up areas of demand in this way the new Metro is expected to attract 20.8 million passengers a year by 2015.

Trams arriving at Snow Hill are already packed solid in the rush hour. So, in order to meet this increased level of demand, we will need more frequent and high capacity trams.

A fleet of 40 new vehicles will be able to carry more than 200 passengers each, with trams every six minutes on the Brierley Hill line, 15 trams an hour into Wolverhampton and averaging every four minutes through Birmingham city centre.

The Midland Metro will provide a service for passengers that most cities will find hard to beat.

In Nottingham, a city a quarter the size of the West Midlands, the new trams started operating at a frequency of eight trams an hour, but this was increased twice in the first year to meet growing demand and a 20 per cent switch to public transport at peak times. Dublin too has seen initial fore-casts exceeded by two million passengers.

This all adds up to a congestion busting equation: the more people there are using the tram and other public transport, the fewer cars there are on the roads.

In Nottingham, traffic levels in the area served by the new tram have fallen by eight-nine per cent. There needs to be an adjustment to the traffic system of course and in Birmingham work with the city council and extensive modelling has helped us to forecast the impact.

The overall Metro scheme will also include contributions to highway schemes to further reduce snarl ups at key pinch points such as Five Ways, Holloway Circus and Ladywood Middleway.

After much hard work we now have an excellent business to submit to Ministers, with the benefits of the scheme exceeding the costs by a comfortable margin. By the Department of Transport's own criteria the financial sums add up to value for money. The results even fall into the 'high' value for money category when the wider regeneration benefits are taken into account.

We believe this £430m scheme has a strong case for winning Government support and we are asking for £322m from the Secretary of State on top of the local contributions and private sector funding already earmarked.

Back in 2000 the Government's Ten Year Transport Plan was talking of up to 25 new light rail schemes in the UK by 2010. The West Midlands was somewhere in the middle of the queue.

Now we'll be lucky if we see five new lines. Funding has been refused for several schemes, notably Liverpool's Merseytram, Leeds and extensions to the already popular system in Manchester. Despite this, the Secretary of State Alistair Darling firmly denies he is anti-tram - only that the cost escalations in those cities left him little choice.

The critical point for Midland Metro will come at this next stage. This is the point at which the financial bench-mark will be set. Whether or not we keep within budget will be measured against the figures that were approved by PTA and are about to be sent to Ministers.

Much of the cost over-run in Liverpool and elsewhere has been a result of private sector risk premiums applied to bids. Anything that could mean uncertainty for the tenderer - whether it is over engineering issues still to be resolved or political uncertainty poses a risk to the investment - so we have been working hard to make sure there is a minimum of risk.

This has involved working up the design in more detail such as engineering drawings for Park-head Viaduct or actually digging trial holes in Birmingham city centre so the construction company will be sure of the ground

conditions it will face when laying the track. This work costs money, but is seen as spending now to deliver a greater saving later.

We also have a procurement model that splits the work into three separate contracts and this approach has been welcomed by the Government. That is a good sign.

There is still a lot of hard work to be done and partnership will be the key to delivering this scheme on the ground. Tomorrow we have a meeting of West Midlands council leaders to work through and agree the local funding package. We are committed to involve local communities in how we plan the construction process, especially to keep disruption to a minimum.

We shall keep on talking to the business community about the complete package of public transport measures, not just the Metro.

It will have been a long haul from the opening of Line One in 1999 to seeing trams in Birmingham city centre in 2012. Hopefully the next expansion phase won't take quite so long.

Although a trip to Nottingham is not so far away, for most people in Birmingham it is difficult to visualise the scale of the improvement the trams will bring.

We know that light rail has helped beat congestion across Europe. The experience of other cities is that once people see the benefits of modern tram systems they want more.big article but worth reading

Forgive my cynicism but if this was in the East End of London would it take the government until next Jan to make a decision ?

"In Nottingham, traffic levels in the area served by the new tram have fallen by eight-nine per cent."

wow never knew that they had that big impact in nottingham wonder what they would do for brum?

Everytime i'm in Nottingham i'm walking along the street and hear the bell on the trams ring and i am momentarily confused thinking i am in Amsterdam (it's exactly the same sound as Amsterdam's trams). They look really good on the streets of Nottingham and for all my critisms i have of the pace of redevelopment in Notts this is something they have got very right. Still a long way to go before they reach a network that is as
good and established as A'dam tho.

The beauty of trams is that they can be put anywhere - rail, road, underground it's the perfect technology to retrofit British city centres with modern transport systems that they have been long over due. This is esspecially true of Brum where we have taken the car off the streets of our city centre so we can put trams in it's place.

There are issues over how we can integrate it with the need to still get cars into the city along the Broad st route and (busses) down Corporation st but once it is established then we will have the backbone of a system we can run other routes off - to Eastside etc.

to where is the city centre tram running to? the existing metro works well...it provides an alternative commuter route...the new line needs to do this also... we cant just have a cbd transit system...thats what we use our legs for now and thats not gonna change.... imo there should be a tram running all the way to halesowen and one from sutton to town.....now that would make a huge amount of money

Well it's an extension isn't it, it's not really a new line. It's so that people can go to where they actually want to rather than Snow Hill then have to walk for 20mins if they wanna get to Five ways.

Then far more people will use it and it will become a realistic commuter route to take people to all the offices at 5ways and Broad st(Brindley place, Arena central etc) as well as providing workers there with connections to New St and Snow Hill stations, it's not really realistic to imagine that somebody working in offices at 5ways is gonna walk or bus to Snow hill before getting on the metro there everyday not when they could save themselves so much time by driving.

It will then provide the backbone for future routes out to Eastside etc.

"In Nottingham, traffic levels in the area served by the new tram have fallen by eight-nine per cent."

wow never knew that they had that big impact in nottingham wonder what they would do for brum?
BCC fear that a few trams an hour going down Broad Street would bring the entire road infrastructure around Birmingham to a giant grid lock. :bash:

to where is the city centre tram running to? the existing metro works well...it provides an alternative commuter route...the new line needs to do this also... we cant just have a cbd transit system...thats what we use our legs for now and thats not gonna change.... imo there should be a tram running all the way to halesowen and one from sutton to town.....now that would make a huge amount of money


The Metro will run just past Five Ways island.Indeed,the intended route is to reach Quinton with a park and ride for the M5.Remember that the original Metro in 1986 was a three lined system but after the government's refusal to put up funds, the Wolverhampton to Snow Hill section was carried forward ;it was relatively cheap and easy to construct because it used the abandoned railway line.The council allowed the powers for the rest of the network to lapse.They thought the only way forward was to construct the system in 'bite-size chunks'.The Dudley line was chosen because once again it uses an old line (no demolition needed),and the important City extension (the original line was to start underground at Five Ways and emerge at Gosta Green,connecting with Chemsley Wood and the airport).

By the way,the Five Ways station will be cut into the island with stairs and lift taking passengers down to ground level.I imagine we'll see a few changes in that area concerning lighting and street furniture.

5 ways station cut into the island eh.. that makes a lot of sense will there be more stops further up the hagley rd.. i kinda got the impression the city centre extension is designed to reach past 5 ways

edit..

sounds like that'd be a bit dangerous after dark tho?

nacho, i found this picture on the centro resite showing the terminus for the city centre extension by the new five ways shopping centre....am i right in assuming then that these are out of date?

http://centro.journalistpresslounge.com/centro/uploads/imagelibrary/Hagley%20Road.jpg

^^

Isn't the traffic on the wrong side of the road there?

I think everything is in place there Blahblah.Woodhousen,the drawing is still part of the project and it will function pretty much the same as the St George's terminus in Wolverhampton.The terminus will be called Edgbaston and of course the station in under the island will be named Five Ways.The depot in Wednesbury will be extended to accomodate the new fleet of trams.Forty new trams will be bought hence the bump up the overall price of the two lines.The original idea was to purchase some new ones and retain the current fleet.I believe they will keep a few in reserve and try to sell the remaining ones.
Click to see the Wolverhampton terminus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Midland_Metro_terminus%2C_Wolverhampton.jpg

Does any one know if the city line will be an extension of the Wolverhampton and if so how will they deal with the different street/platform levels at Snow Hill ?

The City line is an extension of line one but effectively will form the backbone of line two which will cross the city from east to west.Cargo,the Metro wont go into Snow Hill. After St Pauls they will build a viaduct.This new contruction will take the Metro to street level.There will be a new elevated station (St Chads).

The City line is an extension of line one but effectively will form the backbone of line two which will cross the city from east to west.Cargo,the Metro wont go into Snow Hill. After St Pauls they will build a viaduct.This new contruction will take the Metro to street level.There will be a new elevated station (St Chads).

Thanks for that Nacho, i was wondering how they were going to get the trams to the engineering workshops.

Does any one have a map showing the planned route out to Five Ways please ?. I've looked on the metro website but could not find one.

Here's the route.
http://www.centro.org.uk/Metro/Nov%2003/Brum%20Route%20Map.asp

Here's the route.
http://www.centro.org.uk/Metro/Nov%2003/Brum%20Route%20Map.asp

Top Man Nacho !

Thanks :)

Forty new trams will be bought hence the bump up the overall price of the two lines.The original idea was to purchase some new ones and retain the current fleet.I believe they will keep a few in reserve and try to sell the remaining ones.



I thought the intention was to get completely shut of those crummy useless trams cos they're just completely inadequate being so bloody short....not to mention prone to operating hitches. Dunno what possessed them to build the bastard things so small in the first place, but as you can see that is just symptomatic of everything in a nutshell that is wrong with this country when it comes to failing to provide sufficiently for future growth - always take the cheapest option and never consider the consequences of such frugal penny-pinching - thus making everything work out far more expensive in the long run, wouldn't you agree? :|

So it goes through all the new Snow Hill building, the new Post and Mail thingy, past the newly done up Temple House, past the new huge MG devolpment, and walking distance of the new Mathew Bolton Collage and Masshouse, past walking distance of the New Bull ring, past the soon (arf!) to be upgraded New Street Station. Through the Library which will almost certainly will be replaced, past Arena Central, Brindly Place, Tramps Tower and the new 5 ways Shopping centre, and that newish Cinema, and that that place at the old Childrens Hospital. Oh, and the new Edgebaston shopping centre, and the Office blocks at 5 ways.

Yes, that is a fair few new developments!

"In Nottingham, traffic levels in the area served by the new tram have fallen by eight-nine per cent."

wow never knew that they had that big impact in nottingham wonder what they would do for brum?

Probably bugger all.

You can use trams to do one of tow things...

1) Increase capacity going along a corridor, therefore most probably increasing economic growth

or

2) introduce a tram line, and restrict car use along the same line such the the capacity of the trams compensates for the loss of car traffic, therefore a neutral economic impact - VERY hard to get right though.

In the UK, most cities use option 1.

I think to have a proper impact on traffic on the Birmingham end, the line has to extend all the way down the Hagley Road to Quinton (or Bearwood at least). The proposal will simply displace traffic from Broad St because it would not serve the people who use Broad St to leave town anyway. It will help people who work at Brindley Place or Five Ways but live on the Metro route out towards Wolves (and beyond, with the extension in the Black Country).

Once it goes down the Hagley Road, people living in Edgbaston, Bearwood and Quinton will be able to ditch the cars and catch the tram :)

So it goes through all the new Snow Hill building, the new Post and Mail thingy, past the newly done up Temple House, past the new huge MG devolpment, and walking distance of the new Mathew Bolton Collage and Masshouse, past walking distance of the New Bull ring, past the soon (arf!) to be upgraded New Street Station. Through the Library which will almost certainly will be replaced, past Arena Central, Brindly Place, Tramps Tower and the new 5 ways Shopping centre, and that newish Cinema, and that that place at the old Childrens Hospital. Oh, and the new Edgebaston shopping centre, and the Office blocks at 5 ways.

Yes, that is a fair few new developments!


I dont think it goes through the library, it goes around paradise circus towards Alpha Tower and down broad street that way. However it raises some future proofing questions. With plans to remove paradise circus in its present form and the development at 5 ways plus MG are they ensuring that all these are complimentary and not the usual build something, then someone wants to do something else and dig it back up and move it and on...

I think to have a proper impact on traffic on the Birmingham end, the line has to extend all the way down the Hagley Road to Quinton (or Bearwood at least). The proposal will simply displace traffic from Broad St because it would not serve the people who use Broad St to leave town anyway. It will help people who work at Brindley Place or Five Ways but live on the Metro route out towards Wolves (and beyond, with the extension in the Black Country).

Once it goes down the Hagley Road, people living in Edgbaston, Bearwood and Quinton will be able to ditch the cars and catch the tram :)

Interesting point this, Did anyone see the ODPM City Centre stuff that was posted on the main thread a couple of days ago. It stated the City Centre went all the way up the Hagley Road, indicating the tram should too.

If you work on the Hagley Road and live in the North of Birmingham, Public Transport is a nightmare, but if you could catch the train to new street and then jump on the tram, I think a lot more people would consider it...

I dont think it goes through the library, it goes around paradise circus towards Alpha Tower and down broad street that way. However it raises some future proofing questions. With plans to remove paradise circus in its present form and the development at 5 ways plus MG are they ensuring that all these are complimentary and not the usual build something, then someone wants to do something else and dig it back up and move it and on...

After the VS stop ,a new bridge willbe constructed to take the Metro over SQ.

Concerning Hagley road,it was always Labour's wish and Centro to take the line to Quinton.The present council don't see it as priority at the moment.

^^That may well change since Cameroon has instructed the Tories to back trams as their faves things ever, or something.

Sorry, Cameron, not the African nation state.

^^That may well change since Cameroon has instructed the Tories to back trams as their faves things ever, or something.

.

It isn't a question of not backing the Metro, more a question of prioritising different lines.Knocked back by not getting the underground ,the council wants to focus on the Varsity North line which will probably involve tunnelling until it gets out of the city area.
Championing lines by different political parties is very common in Madrid.I once saw an excellent map where every line or extension was backed with their political logos attached to the line.Funny really.

What would you say is the main priority line Nacho?

I can see the reason for Varsity - would this just connect UCE with Aston & Town or would it run to connect the 3 unis? That would be pretty good.

I personally think the Hagley Road or Harborne are most required though (I am biased - I live in this section of the city ;) ) but the fact is there is a huge swathe of the city in the south that is not served by rail (there is a line in Selly Oak and then the entire SW is unserved up to the Black Country line).

Personally,I think they should extend the line down to Quinton with a suitable park and ride close to the M5.I can see the logic behind the Varsity line too.The original line was to include the Bristol Road, thus connecting with Birmingham University but that has been deferred for now.The Varsity North would be a very useful line with provision for park and ride in Great Barr M6 with an eventual link to Walsall.
When potential corridors were looked at, there were proposed links to south Birmingham ( Maypole for example) but the idea wasn't carried forward.The mothballed south Birmingham line would be perfect for the Metro.

Here's the current projected map.

http://lira-2.com/news6-midland2.jpg

502 Bad gateway, but the problem could be down my end. The South link was nothing to do with opening up the old Mosley station was it?

Once it goes down the Hagley Road, people living in Edgbaston, Bearwood and Quinton will be able to ditch the cars and catch the tram :)

They probably won't though.

They've recently worked out that the current traffic reduction consists of 2 journeys, per vehicle, per year.

Hardly brilliant.

Yes Stephen and it may happen one day, but unfortunately it's a long way off.

By the way ,Centro have applied for a footbridge (apart from the Metro bridge )to be constructed over Sulffolk Queensway, linking it with Arena Central.Apparently AC will be 'donating'.

[QUOTE=Nacho].The mothballed south Birmingham line would be perfect for the Metro.

The south birmingham line isnt mothballed, it still serves freight trains so very much in use, even if not for people.

I must be confusing my railway lines.Isn't there a south Birmingham line completely overgrown with dissused tunnels?Mosely or that way?

reall, i didnt think there was any like that...the only line i can think of is the dudley line which i think is going to be used for the metro. there is a line thoguh mosely but its still useed as a cargo line!

They probably won't though.

They've recently worked out that the current traffic reduction consists of 2 journeys, per vehicle, per year.

Hardly brilliant.

:lol: that's would be funny if the Hagley Road wasn't so bad.

I was more thinking along the lines of the fact that there will be significant reduction in road space, hence more congestion, therefore put people off their cars and catch the tram.

If we get a good tram network, I can see a congestion charge being introduced...

I must be confusing my railway lines.Isn't there a south Birmingham line completely overgrown with dissused tunnels?Mosely or that way?

There is a spur off the black country line that goes to Harborne I think.

And they were thinking of re-opening a spur from Northfield to take in Longbridge and Frankley.

Yes Stephen and it may happen one day, but unfortunately it's a long way off.

By the way ,Centro have applied for a footbridge (apart from the Metro bridge )to be constructed over Sulffolk Queensway, linking it with Arena Central.Apparently AC will be 'donating'.

Now that IS good news - anything that will help the 2 parts of the city reconnect is good.

Anyone seen the remodelling going on around Holloway Head? they have filled in one subway that leads to the Pagoda island and installed a surface-level pedestrian crossing to HCT - much better and helps move pedestrians away fromt eh road when walking past the Sentinels.

I am guessing they are keeping the Dome-side as subway, although I wouldn't cry if they didn't...

That sounds OK.I think we need a photo of that.

I've posted the following link before but it's a must for anyone interested in the Birmingham area.Just look at those useful train routes .If you click on the 'blue' stations you can see pics of before and afters.Some of the city stations provide some interesting city scapes.Check it out.

http://www.railaroundbirmingham.co.uk/regional_map.php

Taken from today's Express and Star.


Metro stop revamp boost
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
By Chris Howes
May 2, 2006
Metro bosses have hailed a multi-million pound revamp at two busy stations in West Bromwich as a huge boost for passengers.

The Hawthorns stop near West Bromwich Albion's home ground is being re-modelled.

It is aimed to cope with thousands of fans descending on the station on match days. West Bromwich Central station, the busiest, will also be made much bigger to cater for thousands of shoppers and commuters. Both schemes come in response to huge numbers of people using stops.

Current use is way above the predicted levels before they were built.

Today Travel Midlands Metro, the company which runs the system, said it would make the light rail route more efficient for people to use.

Phil Bateman, corporate affairs manager for the firm, said: "Anything that makes the Metro easier to use has to be welcomed. More and more people are using the Metro. This work is a direct response to that."

Turnstiles and swipe-cards are being proposed at The Hawthorns stop to control crowds heading there on match days.

The pathway from Halfords Lane to the Hawthorns stop will also be widened to cater for the surging supporters.

There are also proposals for "smart cards" which could be used to control the flow of supporters on to the platform through a gating system, pay for match tickets and also tram fares.

It comes after years of concern about large numbers of supporters jostling on the narrow platform after the games.

The stop at West Bromwich Central is also in line for a larger platform.

There will also be new pathways and landscaping as part of the scheme, which is being drawn up by transport authority Centro. Detailed plans are expected to be unveiled later this year.

The pathway from Halfords Lane to the Hawthorns stop will also be widened to cater for the surging supporters.

.
Unfortunately,trying to get away from dismal performances!

Taken from today's Express and Star.


Metro stop revamp boost
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
By Chris Howes
May 2, 2006
Metro bosses have hailed a multi-million pound revamp at two busy stations in West Bromwich as a huge boost for passengers.

The Hawthorns stop near West Bromwich Albion's home ground is being re-modelled.

It is aimed to cope with thousands of fans descending on the station on match days. West Bromwich Central station, the busiest, will also be made much bigger to cater for thousands of shoppers and commuters. Both schemes come in response to huge numbers of people using stops.

Current use is way above the predicted levels before they were built.

Today Travel Midlands Metro, the company which runs the system, said it would make the light rail route more efficient for people to use.

Phil Bateman, corporate affairs manager for the firm, said: "Anything that makes the Metro easier to use has to be welcomed. More and more people are using the Metro. This work is a direct response to that."

Turnstiles and swipe-cards are being proposed at The Hawthorns stop to control crowds heading there on match days.

The pathway from Halfords Lane to the Hawthorns stop will also be widened to cater for the surging supporters.

There are also proposals for "smart cards" which could be used to control the flow of supporters on to the platform through a gating system, pay for match tickets and also tram fares.

It comes after years of concern about large numbers of supporters jostling on the narrow platform after the games.

The stop at West Bromwich Central is also in line for a larger platform.

There will also be new pathways and landscaping as part of the scheme, which is being drawn up by transport authority Centro. Detailed plans are expected to be unveiled later this year.

Could this be a good reason to look at pushing the line up to the Molineux ?

Nacho, what do you think, would this be feasible ?

CH

The pathway from Halfords Lane to the Hawthorns stop will also be widened to cater for the surging supporters.

Unfortunately,trying to get away from dismal performances!


:lol: :lol:

Cargo ,the 5Ws route will incorporate a loop in the centre of Wolverhampton.The nearest stop to the ground will be Princess St.I haven't seen or heard of any other plans for the area.

Here's a diagram.

http://www.centro.org.uk/metrofuture/5W/5W%20index2.asp

A Midland Metro line through Birmingham city centre looks set to move
towards development, with plans now ready to be presented to Government.
Transport group Centro-PTA has agreed to submit a business case for the £116
million tram track from Snow Hill to Five Ways to the Department for
Transport.

Centro-PTA said that, while outstanding issues needed to be resolved, the
council was content that the business case should be submitted to the DfT.
The submission will also include plans for a Metro extension from Wednesbury
to Brierley Hill, via Dudley. The two schemes together will cost £430
million, with the Government expected to contribute £322 million. The
remaining costs are being met by local councils and the private sector.

As well as improving the environment in Birmingham city centre, the Midland
Metro extensions will provide high-quality public transport through both
residential and commercial areas of the Black Country along a route from
Wednesbury to Dudley and Brierley Hill. It will give direct access for
people to Wolverhampton, Birmingham and West
Bromwich centres, as well as supporting the regeneration of significant
areas along the route and development of Merry Hill and Brierley Hill.

Once the business case has been submitted it is hoped that the Government
will grant 'conditional approval', giving the green light to go out to
tender for three separate contracts for building the line, supplying the
trams and operating the network - an approach that has already received a
warm response from a Government keen to reduce the risks of cost escalating.

Latest figures estimate the cost of building the new lines to be £384m after
an allowance is made for inflation up to the year 2012 when the trams could
be running. Around three-quarters of the cost would come from Government,
while the remaining local contribution has already been earmarked by local
councils and private sector funding. Recent discussions with Government have
allowed Centro-PTA to include some earlier costs into the funding bid and
this will reduce the overall cost to taxpayers by over £38m.

Source: http://www.rudi.net/udunews/

and also.....



City Metro set to get green light, say industry insiders
May 18 2006



Rail industry insiders have predicted that the extension of the Midland Metro through Birmingham city centre will be given the green light by Government.

Leading public transport consultancy TAS, in its influential Rapid Transit Monitor report, said the £430 million expansion of the network through Birmingham and the Black Country would get the go-ahead.

TAS, which lists the Department of Transport among its clients, said the scheme was likely to proceed along with projects in London and the South-east integral to the 2012 Olympics - likely to top almost £2 billion.

TAS was instrumental in advising the successful bidders for light railway schemes in Nottingham and Croydon.

The report is the ninth in a series dating back to 1991 and provides 295 pages of commentary and analysis covering light rail, Underground and Bus Rapid Transit.

"We predict that the expansion of the Midland Metro has a good chance," said author and director of TAS, Chris Cheek.


"I think the fact that the Government accepted the funding case originally and it has granted them powers to build it under the Transport Work Act Orders means it has an excellent chance of succeeding. Also there is the fact that Centro is confident that this will rescue something that is otherwise pretty much a disaster."


Having read the preliminary case for expansion Centro had sent to the Government, the only real clouds on the horizon, he said, were if the actual building costs came in at way over what was estimated.


"Basically it is down to whether the capital costs estimates have been accurately calculated, if the build-ers come in and want more than what Centro has allowed," said Mr Cheek. "That has been a problem point for projects in Leeds, Manchester and South Hampshire."


But he said, risk management procedures that were now in the Government's funding requirements were much more robust than was formerly the case, and they allowed for 'optimism bias' in costs.


On April 24 the business plan was unanimously given the go-ahead by West Midlands Passenger Transport Authority

Thanks for those Metrolink and Woodhousen.It's shaping up to being a good month all round.Good vibrations on the building front and positve soundings for the City Metro too.

https://www.gnn.gov.uk/content/detail.asp?ReleaseID=203313&NewsAreaID=142&HUserID=878,793,894,857,779,868,864,845,786,674,677,767,684,762,718,674,708,683,706,718,674

Click here to view the page and associated media
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23/05/2006 10:17

Department for Transport (West Midlands)


TRAINS EVERY 20 MINUTES TO LONDON FOR BIRMINGHAM PASSENGERS FOLLOWING UPGRADE OF WEST COAST MAIN LINE




Birmingham, Birmingham International and Coventry will get three trains an hour to London when the West Coast Main Line modernisation project completes - a better service than previously anticipated, a Government report confirms today.




Birmingham, Birmingham International and Coventry will get three trains an hour to London when the West Coast Main Line modernisation project completes - a better service than previously anticipated, a Government report confirms today.

The West Coast Main Line Progress Report details the planned timetable to be introduced following the completion of the project in 2008. Highlights of the planned timetable include:

* Three trains an hour from London to Birmingham, instead of two. The journey time will be reduced to just 1 hour 23 minutes - 20 minutes faster than before the upgrade of the route
* The three trains will also serve Birmingham International, with a journey time of 1 hour 12 minutes to London
* Journey times from Birmingham to Glasgow and Edinburgh reduced by 10 minutes to around four hours
* Coventry passengers, who also get three trains to London, will be able to reach the capital in just one hour.
* Regular hourly links between Birmingham and Milton Keynes
* A major improvement in weekend services throughout the route, with journey times and frequencies close to weekday levels.

The report also found that track improvements are being delivered on schedule, costs have been brought under control, reliability has been transformed and is exceeding target levels, and passenger numbers are up 30%.

Launching the report, Rail Minister Derek Twigg said: "This project has been a tremendous engineering feat, with over 1,200 miles of track laid already and improvements made so that trains can run at 125mph in tilt mode along the entire track. There is still hard work ahead, but credit must go to everyone involved in this remarkable project.

"Passengers have already seen faster journey times and improving reliability delivered by this project, and this is why so many more passengers are now using the West Coast Main Line. Now we have details of the second stage of benefits they will enjoy after the upgrade completes in 2008. These improvements from the project are even greater than we thought would be possible when this work started. Passengers on the West Coast Main Line can look forward to the future with confidence."

Notes to Editors

* A copy of the West Coast Main Line Progress Report is available on the DfT website at http://www.dft.gov.uk

* The timetable improvements once the project is completed in 2008 will be better than previously anticipated. The regular journey times and trains per hour frequency from London to major stations will be:

London Pre- Current Latest
Euston Project (2006) Indi-
to/from cative
Time-
table
for
Post-
project
Time Stops Freq. Time Stops Freq. Time Stops Freq.
(hr (tph) (hr (tph) (hr (tph)
min) min) min)
Bghm New 1h 43m 3 2 1h 30m 3 2 1h 23m 3 3
St.
Coventry 1h 11m 1 2 1h 04m 1 2 1h 00m 1 3





The fastest journey times on the route from London will be:

London Euston Pre- Current Latest
to/from project (2006) Indicative
Timetable for
Post-project
Time Stops Time Stops Time Stops
Birmingham N St 1h 39m 1 1hr 21m 1 1h 18m 1





* The West Coast Main Line is 1,660 miles long and runs from Euston to Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, North Wales and Scotland. It is responsible for over 2,000 train movements each day and caters for over 75m passenger journeys every year.

* The engineering work completed so far includes line speed improvements throughout the route to 125mph in tilt mode, 1,266 miles of track renewed and 2,802 miles of signalling cable laid. Major individual projects include new platforms at Birmingham New Street and Wolverhampton and the creation of new facilities to turn trains around at Birmingham International.

* Remaining engineering work which will complete the modernisation project include enlarging Milton Keynes and Rugby stations to allow more fast trains to pass through, widening the track in the Trent Valley and opening a new depot for trains at Northampton.




Client ref WM/2801/06

GNN ref 133287P

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TRAINS EVERY 20 MINUTES TO LONDON FOR BIRMINGHAM PASSENGERS FOLLOWING UPGRADE OF WEST COAST MAIN LIN


© Crown Copyright 2006

probaly means a reduction in the local services then at stations like stechford, lee hall

it wouldnt mean that is they were to widen to 4 tracking....but seems like they aint!

Its about time they had more trains running to the north. Sundays are a fecking disgrace. Especially to the East Coast.

talk of the devil

Line upgrade great . . . if only
May 24 2006

By Jonathan Walker And Neil Connor


Business leaders in Birmingham have welcomed Government plans to upgrade the West Coast Main Line and introduce a third service from the city to London every hour.

But the expansion could damage local services because there simply isn't enough capacity at New Street Station, transport chiefs have warned.

Centro-PTA, the official body responsible for developing public transport in the region, said the announcement made it even more important to increase capacity at New Street.


* Tell us your view on this story. Get in touch by email, messageboard or send a web letter to the editor *

Trains between London and Birmingham are to run three times an hour, the Department for Transport said yesterday.


The extra services had been made possible by upgrades to the West Coast Main Line, which had been even more successful than expected, officials said.


The new timetable, to come into effect in 2008, will see the journey time between Birmingham and the capital cut to one hour 23 minutes, 20 minutes faster than before the upgrade.


Coventry passengers, who also get three trains to London, will be able to reach the capital in just one hour.


Dramatic improvements to weekend services are also planned, so that journey times and frequencies become much closer to weekday levels.


The West Coast Main Line Progress Report, published by the Department yesterday, also found that track improvements are being delivered on schedule, costs have been brought under control, and passenger numbers are up 30 per cent.


John Lamb, spokesman for Birmingham Chamber of Commerce, said: "We have campaigned for more services between London and Birmingham for many years so obviously we welcome this announcement.


"We desperately need an improved transport infrastructure in the region and especially more trains to London.


"It is important for businesses as well as leisure commuters to have the best service that is possible, so this can only be good news."


Concerns have been raised, however, because New Street will initially continue to have just two tracks to squeeze all the new services through.


The Strategic Rail Authority has drawn up proposals to double capacity with a tunnel under New Street to separate local and express services and the four-tracking of the line between Wolverhampton and Coventry, but work has yet to begin.


A Centro-PTA official said: "Clearly it is excellent news that the upgrades to the West Coast Main Line have been such a success.


"The issue is that we have this extra capacity being used at New Street when capacity is already being stretched to the limit.


"What nobody wants to see if local services being affected by the need to free up capacity for the national service.


"The link to London is very important and well-used. But we must not lose sight of the fact that one in five commuters in Birmingham travel by train every morning. The bulk of them using New Street.


"We need to increase capacity so local services do not lose out."


A Department of Transport Spokesman said: "Local services will not be moved. The number of Birmingham to London trains can be increased using existing capacity.


"This announcement is a definite and massive gain for the city of Birmingham and won't cause problems for local services."


Launching the West Coast Main Line Progress Report, Rail Minister Derek Twigg said: "This project has been a tremendous engineering feat, with more than 1,200 miles of track laid already and improvements made so that trains can run at 125mph in tilt mode along the entire track.


"Passengers have already seen faster journey times and improving reliability delivered by this project, and this is why so many more passengers are now using the West Coast Main Line.


"Now we have details of the second stage of benefits they will enjoy after the upgrade completes in 2008. These improvements from the project are even greater than we thought would be possible when this work started."

A bit of good news :)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/shropshire/5011836.stm

New £102m road to link motorways
A dual carriageway could link the M54 with the M6 and M6 Toll road by 2012.
Macquarie Infrastructure Group - owner of road operator Midland Expressway - would help to meet the £102m cost through refinancing the M6 Toll.

The company is volunteering funding for the new road, which would link the M54 Junction 1, M6 J11a and M6 Toll T8.

If planners approve the road - which would be free to use - £10m would also be spent improving access from the M42 to the southern end of the M6 Toll.

The Transport Secretary, Douglas Alexander, said it was a good deal for the taxpayer and would help tackle congestion in the West Midlands.

He said: "By using resources released from the M6 Toll's refinancing the Highways Agency will be able to speed up the construction of the new link."

I have come up with an idea that would help solve the Birmingham Transport Problem and make use of some of our ugliest urban canals and not have to take up any road capacity! - Hey it may even do away with the need for the metro

http://www.victoria-adventure.org/more_than_links_images/dieter/schwebebahn.jpg

The Brummie Schwebebahn